1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,280 One of the things that we think is most important is they're just recognizing these characters and understanding words like Satoshi, Bitcoin, how, like understanding that terminology is just as important as anything else. And that's something that they're then comfortable with, you know, hearing the word Satoshi isn't going to be foreign to them. 2 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:22,200 10 years down the line when maybe they're learning how an actual Bitcoin transaction works or 3 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:27,900 who knows what. So it's just, if these characters that we create can bring comfort to a kid, 4 00:00:27,980 --> 00:00:33,100 five, 10, 15 years down the line, then we've done our job as kind of that early education 5 00:00:33,100 --> 00:00:38,520 side of things. Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for coming today for another episode of the 6 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:43,560 Ben Wurman podcast. I appreciate you being here. Today, we have Scott from Shawmarie, 7 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:49,200 which is a really cool new company that I'm going to let you do most of the explaining. 8 00:00:49,420 --> 00:00:53,060 I'm usually really good at doing deep research on these guests beforehand, 9 00:00:53,260 --> 00:00:55,080 but I've had a crazy last 24 hours. 10 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,980 So I'm going to truly learn about this live with my listeners. 11 00:00:58,240 --> 00:00:59,940 So Scott, thank you so much for joining me today. 12 00:01:00,380 --> 00:01:01,980 No problem. Thanks for having me here, Ben. 13 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,940 I'm happy to let everybody know about Sean Marie, including yourself. 14 00:01:05,500 --> 00:01:10,820 Amazing. So why don't we start with just a bit of backstory on your Bitcoin story, 15 00:01:10,820 --> 00:01:14,780 how you ended up getting into Bitcoin and then we'll shift into Shawmarine and where that came 16 00:01:14,780 --> 00:01:19,940 in and how that is your new project. Yeah, no problem. So my Bitcoin story starts back in kind 17 00:01:19,940 --> 00:01:25,700 of late 2017, early 2018. So kind of that class, if you will. I like to think of it as kind of the 18 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:31,300 typical story from people that came in around then where you saw Bitcoin price going up, all the other 19 00:01:31,300 --> 00:01:37,080 altcoin prices going up as well, got sucked in. Lucky enough for myself, it was a pretty quick 20 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:42,600 turnaround to recognize that Bitcoin was kind of the thing and everything else was a distraction, 21 00:01:42,780 --> 00:01:46,540 probably about a three or more four month process. So it didn't get burned too bad. 22 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,820 I was about three years. So you already beat me. 23 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:56,700 Hey, as long as it happens eventually, right? So yeah, probably about three or four months 24 00:01:56,700 --> 00:02:02,380 of kind of learning and kind of diving down that rabbit hole and then recognizing, okay, 25 00:02:02,380 --> 00:02:08,440 you know, Bitcoin is the focus. Let's learn as much about this as possible. And then that 26 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:14,800 kind of coincided with the fact that my wife and I at the time were starting to think about 27 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:20,020 creating a family and that whole side of things, which as we started going deeper down the Bitcoin 28 00:02:20,020 --> 00:02:25,300 rabbit hole recognized, you know, one day you want to be able to teach your kids about not just 29 00:02:25,300 --> 00:02:29,720 Bitcoin, but financial education and everything that's around it. And, you know, going back 30 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,380 that many years now, there wasn't a ways to make that happen. Specifically speaking around Bitcoin, 31 00:02:34,380 --> 00:02:39,240 there was a few books out there for kids, but, but nothing much. Um, and so the, uh, the short 32 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,480 version of that story, which I can dive deeper into is we kind of just said, what can we do 33 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:49,920 ourselves to be able to one day teach our future kids, um, about Bitcoin and in a fun, low stakes 34 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:54,960 manner. Um, so that's kind of how the two merged where kind of learned about Bitcoin dove down that 35 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,240 I saw the value in it. 36 00:02:57,020 --> 00:03:02,120 My background before that was in a mixture of accounting. 37 00:03:02,300 --> 00:03:04,080 So I was a public accountant for three or four years. 38 00:03:04,460 --> 00:03:07,340 And then for about 15 years, I worked in the ed tech industry. 39 00:03:07,340 --> 00:03:17,400 So I kind of had a mixture of the math side of things and verifiability with audit and that sort of stuff mixed with the product creation side of things and creativity. 40 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,540 So I enjoy creating things, but I also like black and white answers when it comes to math. 41 00:03:21,540 --> 00:03:30,640 So I like thinking of those combinations as being something that kind of preordained me to understanding about Bitcoin in a deeper way. 42 00:03:32,980 --> 00:03:36,860 Awesome. Awesome. And so I know you have a little girl, correct? 43 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:37,840 You and your wife have a little girl. 44 00:03:38,380 --> 00:03:39,160 Two of them. Awesome. 45 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,980 And so when did that come into the mix and how did that sort of change this mission path for you? 46 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,100 Because I assume like Sean Maria is like definitely like a kids oriented project. 47 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:51,420 So how did that change things? 48 00:03:51,540 --> 00:03:54,960 Yeah, so our oldest daughter was born in 2019. 49 00:03:55,740 --> 00:03:58,780 And then our youngest was born last year, 2024. 50 00:03:59,260 --> 00:04:06,840 So it's been fun seeing them learn about Bitcoin through their eyes, especially the older one. 51 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:14,340 And so it came about just the fact that us learning about Bitcoin coincided with creating the family. 52 00:04:14,540 --> 00:04:17,380 And then we said, you know, let's create something. 53 00:04:17,380 --> 00:04:23,860 And so our game, which you can see back here, was our first project that we kind of put out there. 54 00:04:23,980 --> 00:04:29,360 And it was meant to be a fun, honestly, a fun side project to just kind of see what happens. 55 00:04:30,020 --> 00:04:34,080 So we launched officially in April of 2020. 56 00:04:34,220 --> 00:04:39,620 So we actually just celebrated our five-year anniversary of our first sale on April 6th. 57 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:42,040 And so very, very recently. 58 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,160 It's crazy that it's been five years, honestly. 59 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:51,300 um so we you know we put the game out there it took about a year prior to that to create it neither 60 00:04:51,300 --> 00:04:57,500 my wife and i had ever created a game gone through a manufacturing process launched a website you 61 00:04:57,500 --> 00:05:02,280 know branding all that all that fun stuff that comes about it so a lot of learning gameplay 62 00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:07,260 testing it out between us and you know go back that many years we didn't we didn't know any other 63 00:05:07,260 --> 00:05:13,220 bitcoiners in san diego to test it with so we had family members that had to be uh come in and kind 64 00:05:13,220 --> 00:05:17,260 to help play the game, but they didn't know anything about Bitcoin. And the game itself 65 00:05:17,260 --> 00:05:22,980 teaches about Bitcoin mining. So kind of another layer deeper than that. So when we launched, 66 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:27,080 it was really kind of crossing our fingers, hoping that we didn't miss anything and that, 67 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,100 you know, somebody who knew deep knowledge about Bitcoin mining would, you know, coming back and 68 00:05:31,100 --> 00:05:36,760 say, Hey, you really messed this up. But actually the opposite happened where we had people deep in 69 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:42,380 the Bitcoin mining space say, you know, I want to be able to use this game to onboard new employees 70 00:05:42,380 --> 00:05:44,720 or to onboard new investors. 71 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,060 And we had people honestly say, 72 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,080 this is the most simplistic way 73 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,180 we've ever seen mining explained. 74 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:56,060 And so those things obviously meant a lot 75 00:05:56,060 --> 00:05:58,700 hearing back at the time and gave us confidence 76 00:05:58,700 --> 00:06:00,540 and okay, we got this one down. 77 00:06:01,540 --> 00:06:02,740 Where can we go from here? 78 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:04,740 That's super cool. 79 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,660 And this is such a great tie-in to, 80 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:09,880 I just recorded a conversation with Rob and Sylvia Brindad, 81 00:06:09,980 --> 00:06:11,020 who I'm sure you're aware of, 82 00:06:11,020 --> 00:06:16,560 run a place to be project over in madera portugal and one of the big points that they got across is 83 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:21,840 that the best way to learn no matter your age is to do it through playing yep so this is a great 84 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:26,960 example that it's a game like it's you're having fun and you're stealthily learning about bitcoin 85 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,880 at the same time so could you walk us through exactly what this game is i know it's a card game 86 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,740 could you break it down just for the parents out there that may be listening they're looking for 87 00:06:35,740 --> 00:06:39,980 fun games to get their kids yeah of course um and we do have so i'll break it down and then on our 88 00:06:39,980 --> 00:06:44,520 website there's a video which really helps break it down so everything i'll start by saying everything 89 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,860 we've done related to shamray with the game or since creating things is done been using these 90 00:06:49,860 --> 00:06:55,240 characters that you see behind me and whatnot and so going back kind of to the gameplay testing is 91 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,660 the game plays similar to the game of memory which we've probably all played as a kid where you're 92 00:06:59,660 --> 00:07:04,580 flipping over cards you're trying to find matches the player with the most matches wins but when we 93 00:07:04,580 --> 00:07:11,380 started creating the game itself where the name came from is a mixture of sha 256 so sha from sha 94 00:07:11,380 --> 00:07:18,260 256 mixed with mori the end of the word memory so that's the genesis of the name and um the gameplay 95 00:07:18,260 --> 00:07:22,840 is similar to memory so you have a stack of cards laid down face down on the uh the bottom there 96 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,700 those are the uh the target cards so there's a target and a nonce so there's a nonce stack so 97 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:33,160 for bitcoin mining for those that don't know the computers that are are mining the blocks they're 98 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,760 Essentially, I'm going to break this down as simple as possible. 99 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,960 They're guessing a number, which is called a nonce. 100 00:07:39,580 --> 00:07:43,660 And so in our case, instead of guessing numbers, we're trying to find matching characters. 101 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,300 So there's 14 different monster characters that you see back here that are all there. 102 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,340 So as a player flips over one of the cards, they need to find that matching one over there. 103 00:07:52,340 --> 00:07:55,040 As that happens, the target and the nonce match up. 104 00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:58,080 They create a hash, which then mines the next block. 105 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,320 So there's a stock of cards that get lined up block by block. 106 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,800 The goal of the game is to mine from the Genesis block up to the block out of 10. 107 00:08:06,540 --> 00:08:09,440 Each time that's done, the player who finds the match gets a reward. 108 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,400 So you earn a Bitcoin reward and the player with the most rewards at the end of the game wins. 109 00:08:14,140 --> 00:08:15,880 But along the way, a couple of things can happen. 110 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,820 One, there are attack cards that get played. 111 00:08:20,460 --> 00:08:26,120 So if your attack chain ever gets longer than the blockchain, it's 51% attack and the game's over for everybody. 112 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:34,960 And so one thing that that shows, which we've heard from parents over and over again is, yes, this is an individual game where we're all competing to mine as many blocks as possible. 113 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:46,280 But it's also collaborative in the sense that maybe we've, you know, we get to the block out of nine and we only got one more to go, but the attack chain comes in, we all lose. 114 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:53,560 So when we get down to those lower levels, it actually behooves everybody to kind of play together to be able to make sure that we make it. 115 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:57,100 And then, you know, whether you got one reward or five rewards, you got something. 116 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:21,547 So just a side kind of learning experience for the kids that are playing you know not just learning about Bitcoin but learning about both collaboration and competitiveness at the same time I love that It a great analogy for just Bitcoin companies in the space and like different people who are all buying Bitcoin because it sort of a mix of competition and teamwork because all these Bitcoin companies they all 117 00:09:21,547 --> 00:09:26,007 want Bitcoin to succeed even though they're competing within their niches. So it's a really 118 00:09:26,007 --> 00:09:31,027 interesting dynamic. And I've worked at Bitcoin companies before where, you know, direct competitors 119 00:09:31,027 --> 00:09:33,807 or like we're posting memes with each other and having fun. 120 00:09:33,967 --> 00:09:36,047 You know, it's not like a cutthroat business. 121 00:09:36,307 --> 00:09:38,607 It's more like we all love being in Bitcoin 122 00:09:38,607 --> 00:09:40,787 and Bitcoin is going to create a better world 123 00:09:40,787 --> 00:09:42,287 with or without any of us, 124 00:09:42,347 --> 00:09:44,027 either of us on these different companies 125 00:09:44,027 --> 00:09:44,747 that we're working at. 126 00:09:44,947 --> 00:09:46,807 And it's really a cool vibe 127 00:09:46,807 --> 00:09:48,907 because it just brings people together more 128 00:09:48,907 --> 00:09:51,127 and it's all about fun and enjoying the process. 129 00:09:51,507 --> 00:09:52,167 No, it's true. 130 00:09:52,367 --> 00:09:53,647 It is all about fun. 131 00:09:53,767 --> 00:09:55,267 And, you know, I can speak firsthand to, 132 00:09:55,427 --> 00:09:56,827 like you said, in the Bitcoin community, 133 00:09:56,827 --> 00:09:58,827 when it comes to other companies, 134 00:09:59,007 --> 00:10:00,927 you know, 99.9% of the time, 135 00:10:01,027 --> 00:10:05,927 they're out there to work together. I don't see anybody as a competitive, you know, since we've 136 00:10:05,927 --> 00:10:10,007 launched, there's been other people who've started creating, whether it's games or books or whatever 137 00:10:10,007 --> 00:10:14,327 it is for kids, the more the merrier, you know, we're all supporting each other. It's a small 138 00:10:14,327 --> 00:10:20,007 ecosystem still. And so being able to support each other and recognize that we're all stronger 139 00:10:20,007 --> 00:10:24,287 together, especially at this point in time is definitely the case. And you see that over and 140 00:10:24,287 --> 00:10:28,107 over again through the years of talking to people and learning what they're doing and being able to 141 00:10:28,107 --> 00:10:32,707 find ways to work together. And especially in the niche of games, like you hardly ever 142 00:10:32,707 --> 00:10:38,587 would meet a parent who says, I'm only going to buy one game that's about Bitcoin. If they buy it 143 00:10:38,587 --> 00:10:41,247 and they really like it and their kids enjoy it, then they're going to want to fill out the whole 144 00:10:41,247 --> 00:10:46,627 game cabinet with a bunch of Bitcoin games. So it's a great gateway drug if they buy any of them 145 00:10:46,627 --> 00:10:51,107 and they want more because who doesn't like a really cool way to educate your kids on something 146 00:10:51,107 --> 00:10:56,967 super important and fun for everybody. So love hearing that. What are some of the best stories 147 00:10:56,967 --> 00:10:59,147 and testimonials you've heard from people who bought the game? 148 00:11:00,107 --> 00:11:04,547 So one of them is kind of, we just touched on just kind of how kids aren't just learning 149 00:11:04,547 --> 00:11:07,607 about Bitcoin, but learning about collaboration and that, that side of things. 150 00:11:08,047 --> 00:11:12,507 Others, you know, we hear people all the time saying, you know, it's helping to bring us 151 00:11:12,507 --> 00:11:13,347 together physically. 152 00:11:13,587 --> 00:11:17,787 You know, obviously everything is very digital now and we do every once in a while get asked 153 00:11:17,787 --> 00:11:20,587 the question, oh, you know, will you ever make a digital version of the game? 154 00:11:20,587 --> 00:11:23,867 And that sort of thing, which who knows, maybe down the line that would happen. 155 00:11:23,947 --> 00:11:26,947 It's not on our roadmap, but going back to the beginning, part of the reason, 156 00:11:26,947 --> 00:11:36,787 The reason why we created the game and everything else we've done since then as physical products isn't because we like having a garage full of books and games and everything taking up space. 157 00:11:36,787 --> 00:11:40,187 It's because we recognized, you know, this is for the families. 158 00:11:40,667 --> 00:11:45,367 We want families to be together physically and not, you know, behind a screen or that sort of thing. 159 00:11:45,367 --> 00:11:55,107 So hearing families say, you know, this is something we're able that's able to physically bring us together, you know, at night or on the weekends or whatever it may be is something that always warms the heart. 160 00:11:55,107 --> 00:12:03,407 One great story that we always heard, this goes back probably about five years now, it was back at the beginning was a family came up and they told us that they were playing one day. 161 00:12:03,627 --> 00:12:07,727 I think it was a mom and dad, they had two kids, and then the grandfather was also playing. 162 00:12:08,067 --> 00:12:13,167 And shortly, the grandfather had very limited or no knowledge of Bitcoin and mining coming into it. 163 00:12:13,687 --> 00:12:23,307 But he enjoyed playing and he enjoyed playing so much that within, I think it was like two or three weeks, he had gone out and set up his own at home Bitcoin miner, just on his own. 164 00:12:23,307 --> 00:12:25,607 just from the spur of the moment 165 00:12:25,607 --> 00:12:27,447 of learning about mining through playing. 166 00:12:27,867 --> 00:12:30,407 So while the game is focused on kids and families, 167 00:12:30,607 --> 00:12:32,727 there's no top age that can enjoy 168 00:12:32,727 --> 00:12:33,747 and start learning from it. 169 00:12:34,007 --> 00:12:34,807 And in some ways, 170 00:12:35,507 --> 00:12:36,807 it's the adults who need it the most. 171 00:12:37,027 --> 00:12:40,087 The kids, all this comes second nature to them. 172 00:12:40,527 --> 00:12:42,747 But being able to have adults start learning 173 00:12:42,747 --> 00:12:45,047 through simple things like games and books 174 00:12:45,047 --> 00:12:46,487 is something that is also valuable. 175 00:12:49,127 --> 00:12:50,227 Yeah, that's super awesome. 176 00:12:50,307 --> 00:12:52,707 And that's a great example of why it's all ages. 177 00:12:52,707 --> 00:12:57,527 every age likes to just play and have fun and that's how they have these new ideas spring into 178 00:12:57,527 --> 00:13:05,667 their head and take action like you said that's a super cool story and uh let's see so a different 179 00:13:05,667 --> 00:13:09,647 conference i'm sure that you've had your product at the conferences in the past so you've probably 180 00:13:09,647 --> 00:13:13,987 been able to watch this in person too like watch people actually play the game and see i can imagine 181 00:13:13,987 --> 00:13:18,607 like that's a super cool experience just like see people with their hands using this physical thing 182 00:13:18,607 --> 00:13:23,747 like you mentioned, because I personally, I hope that it never goes digital because I love the 183 00:13:23,747 --> 00:13:30,807 physical stuff. I keep seeing Bitcoiners following this pattern of doing the opposite of what the 184 00:13:30,807 --> 00:13:35,967 stereotype probably is of Bitcoiners being the shadowy super coders living in their basement and 185 00:13:35,967 --> 00:13:40,067 never going outside. It's really the opposite. Like Bitcoiners want to bring the physical world 186 00:13:40,067 --> 00:13:45,667 back and bring these human to human connections back. So what have you seen as you see people 187 00:13:45,667 --> 00:13:50,447 actually doing it and what they experience when they have something sit down and play together 188 00:13:50,447 --> 00:13:54,527 for the first time and not candy crush. Yeah, no, it's really fun. And being at conferences 189 00:13:54,527 --> 00:13:58,907 is probably one of the, if not the most exciting part about kind of creating all these things. 190 00:13:59,127 --> 00:14:04,867 We're typically at the Bitcoin conference every year. So this will be year five of being there. 191 00:14:04,967 --> 00:14:08,987 So we'll be in Vegas next month. Crazy to say it'll be here before we know it. But going back, 192 00:14:08,987 --> 00:14:13,467 So Bitcoin 2021 in Miami was our first time being there. 193 00:14:14,367 --> 00:14:18,167 We had made friends, actually going back to our earlier conversation, just making friends 194 00:14:18,167 --> 00:14:18,647 in the industry. 195 00:14:18,847 --> 00:14:24,567 So we had made friends with Des Dickerson, who at the time was at McCox doing video game 196 00:14:24,567 --> 00:14:24,887 stuff. 197 00:14:25,007 --> 00:14:25,807 Now she's at Thunder Games. 198 00:14:25,987 --> 00:14:29,987 But they had a whole gaming video game area set up in 2021. 199 00:14:30,407 --> 00:14:35,187 Worked with her to be able to have literally a small table, call it like a five by five 200 00:14:35,187 --> 00:14:40,847 little table where we could set up our game and start selling it to people. It was just my wife 201 00:14:40,847 --> 00:14:48,447 and I, and it was probably the most exhilarating and tiring 48 hours over those two days of our 202 00:14:48,447 --> 00:14:52,647 life outside of anything that had to do with our kids. Just constantly people coming over, 203 00:14:52,767 --> 00:14:57,247 learning about it, saying how different it was compared to everything else that was at the 204 00:14:57,247 --> 00:15:03,307 conference. That conference was coming off of everybody being locked down and being outside 205 00:15:03,307 --> 00:15:04,667 for the first time in many cases. 206 00:15:04,947 --> 00:15:06,707 So the vibes were high. 207 00:15:07,187 --> 00:15:10,067 And it was that conference was really what let us see, 208 00:15:10,227 --> 00:15:13,967 okay, this was more than just kind of a fun side project. 209 00:15:14,207 --> 00:15:17,187 There is an actual need for stuff like this 210 00:15:17,187 --> 00:15:17,807 out in the market. 211 00:15:17,987 --> 00:15:19,227 And that really is what spurned us. 212 00:15:19,347 --> 00:15:21,247 Came home and within a short period of time, 213 00:15:21,307 --> 00:15:22,647 we had written our first book 214 00:15:22,647 --> 00:15:24,507 and started that process to get it out there. 215 00:15:24,667 --> 00:15:27,187 So from that point on, like I said, 216 00:15:27,227 --> 00:15:28,847 we've been at the big conference every year 217 00:15:28,847 --> 00:15:30,867 and being able to go year over year 218 00:15:30,867 --> 00:15:32,427 and seeing the same people, 219 00:15:32,427 --> 00:15:35,847 seeing the same families coming over, whether they're buying something new or not, it doesn't 220 00:15:35,847 --> 00:15:40,567 matter. Sometimes they're just coming over and saying hi. And it's like seeing old friends that 221 00:15:40,567 --> 00:15:45,487 you see once a year and having them now start bringing, there's more kids that are coming to 222 00:15:45,487 --> 00:15:49,267 conferences. Bitcoiners are having babies everywhere, man. You can't stop them. 223 00:15:49,587 --> 00:15:53,427 Exactly. No, there's plenty of Bitcoin babies out there. There's plenty of kids now coming to 224 00:15:53,427 --> 00:15:57,707 conferences and we've been lucky enough to help set up and assist with some of those kids spaces. 225 00:15:57,707 --> 00:16:03,207 And this will be our third year of bringing our daughter along to the conference with us. 226 00:16:03,327 --> 00:16:05,307 So now she's working in the booth. 227 00:16:05,487 --> 00:16:06,607 We brought our baby last year. 228 00:16:06,707 --> 00:16:07,747 She was, what was she? 229 00:16:08,067 --> 00:16:08,707 Like six months old. 230 00:16:08,847 --> 00:16:09,567 So that was chaos. 231 00:16:09,747 --> 00:16:15,887 We're going to leave her, the younger one behind this time around, just because a one-year-old at a booth is a little harder than a six-month-old. 232 00:16:16,047 --> 00:16:17,987 They're walking around now, so can't contain them. 233 00:16:18,147 --> 00:16:19,687 But Charlotte will be with us again. 234 00:16:19,787 --> 00:16:22,747 And then hopefully next year Zoe can tag along when she's another year older. 235 00:16:22,947 --> 00:16:26,267 But being able to have it be a family affair. 236 00:16:26,267 --> 00:16:29,507 And I think it also helps, you know, we're, we're selling family products. 237 00:16:29,907 --> 00:16:34,347 So it's not like, you know, they're, you know, we're just some 60 or 70 year old person out 238 00:16:34,347 --> 00:16:38,067 there that created something random for, for families and they don't have kids themselves 239 00:16:38,067 --> 00:16:42,067 of age, but I think people enjoy getting to know us. 240 00:16:42,287 --> 00:16:44,467 They see that, you know, we're creating these from our heart. 241 00:16:44,627 --> 00:16:49,267 You know, our daughter all the time is grabbing our, our shirts or stuff like that and walking 242 00:16:49,267 --> 00:16:49,927 around with Satoshi. 243 00:16:50,147 --> 00:16:52,807 So it's actively being done in our house. 244 00:16:52,807 --> 00:17:01,467 And so there are testers, to be honest, like we create things for them and we say, okay, well, if they like it, then somebody else out there probably will. 245 00:17:01,547 --> 00:17:02,347 And let's see what happens. 246 00:17:03,387 --> 00:17:03,747 Yeah. 247 00:17:03,767 --> 00:17:07,967 You get to save a lot of money on research when you can just turn on a table and say, here, see if you have fun. 248 00:17:08,267 --> 00:17:08,627 Exactly. 249 00:17:08,827 --> 00:17:09,587 R&D is cheap. 250 00:17:10,307 --> 00:17:10,787 Love it. 251 00:17:10,847 --> 00:17:11,067 Love it. 252 00:17:11,067 --> 00:17:11,667 That's super cool. 253 00:17:11,767 --> 00:17:16,807 And that's such a cool dynamic of having a family project that you can all really work on together. 254 00:17:16,807 --> 00:17:27,167 And as you watch your daughters grow older and they'll understand more and more that this is like your group bonding and also a business like a Bitcoin business, which is super cool. 255 00:17:27,167 --> 00:17:32,507 Because a lot of parents out there are looking for ways to teach their young ones about Bitcoin. 256 00:17:32,827 --> 00:17:40,307 And I can't think of a cooler way than that just to have games that they get to play and also go out and go to these conferences, meet a bunch more people. 257 00:17:40,527 --> 00:17:41,847 So that's super cool. 258 00:17:41,967 --> 00:17:45,087 I can imagine like how has this changed your family dynamic? 259 00:17:45,087 --> 00:17:55,527 I know that your daughters were very young when it started, but I assuming like pre-Shamary and post is different because it brings people together in that way, just like you said, but even more so for you guys. 260 00:17:56,187 --> 00:17:57,487 Yeah, no, it's definitely changed. 261 00:17:58,247 --> 00:18:01,147 And not just Shhamary, just Bitcoin as a whole, you know. 262 00:18:03,247 --> 00:18:06,867 I truly, you know, Bitcoin isn't a get rich quick scheme. 263 00:18:06,967 --> 00:18:08,167 It's a get rich slow scheme. 264 00:18:08,307 --> 00:18:10,967 I buy by that mentality. 265 00:18:10,967 --> 00:18:26,015 And so going on um you know as long as we have and being able to stay focused on it um you know has let us not only do things like Shamri but also given our time back as a family in various ways and allowed me to you know 266 00:18:26,055 --> 00:18:29,355 be able to focus on building things around Shamri and being at home. 267 00:18:29,555 --> 00:18:30,795 We homeschool our kids. 268 00:18:31,015 --> 00:18:33,055 And so they're always around. 269 00:18:33,615 --> 00:18:35,995 We're always learning together, doing stuff together. 270 00:18:35,995 --> 00:18:40,415 And that's kind of what, you know, the biggest thing that Bitcoin as a whole has given back 271 00:18:40,415 --> 00:18:45,855 to us is time as a family and being able to utilize that in whatever manner we like, whether 272 00:18:45,855 --> 00:18:50,975 that's building stuff for the business or just going to a Padre game or doing whatever it is 273 00:18:50,975 --> 00:18:55,775 we're doing, having fun. And that's something that I think resonates with Bitcoiners, kind of that 274 00:18:55,775 --> 00:19:02,775 time value aspect, maybe more so than other people, or maybe it still resonates with those other 275 00:19:02,775 --> 00:19:07,015 people, but they don't know how to act on it to make it actually come to fruition. They want that 276 00:19:07,015 --> 00:19:11,295 time, but then they're stuck in the rat race of, well, I can't leave my job or I can't do this, 277 00:19:11,315 --> 00:19:14,895 or I can't do that. And it's not an easy thing. So I'm not trying to make it trivial, 278 00:19:14,895 --> 00:19:20,655 but your kids are only going to be the age they are once. And so you might as well do everything 279 00:19:20,655 --> 00:19:26,255 you can to make sure that you're able to build that life with them during those years when they 280 00:19:26,255 --> 00:19:32,135 look up to you more than anything else, however you want to build it. It's a fun thing to do as a 281 00:19:32,135 --> 00:19:37,775 family and just it lets them teach. So our younger daughter, Charlotte, she's typically selling 282 00:19:37,775 --> 00:19:41,955 bracelets and necklaces at our booth. And by selling, we mean it's a donation. She has a QR 283 00:19:41,955 --> 00:19:48,875 code to her lightning wallet and people can pay whatever they want. Whether it's 20 sats or 20,000 284 00:19:48,875 --> 00:19:54,715 sats, it doesn't matter, but it's taught her about selling. She's fearless when it comes to asking 285 00:19:54,715 --> 00:20:00,055 people if they want to buy something, which is a skill that will last her a lifetime. And so 286 00:20:00,055 --> 00:20:05,255 So if that's all we get out of this, then the value is there. 287 00:20:05,535 --> 00:20:10,975 Like she's learning about business and money and communication and sales and meeting new people. 288 00:20:11,635 --> 00:20:14,615 And hopefully the same thing will be true for our youngest as she grows up too. 289 00:20:15,675 --> 00:20:16,395 That's amazing. 290 00:20:16,495 --> 00:20:17,275 I love that so much. 291 00:20:17,315 --> 00:20:17,855 That's so cool. 292 00:20:18,335 --> 00:20:23,795 I can definitely sense that people listening right now are probably feeling inspired to do something similar, 293 00:20:23,795 --> 00:20:28,935 whether it be a game or a book or something, just like creating something in Bitcoin world 294 00:20:28,935 --> 00:20:31,135 so they can have a similar story and similar benefits. 295 00:20:31,135 --> 00:20:33,815 So what would be your advice to people 296 00:20:33,815 --> 00:20:35,615 who are hearing this and thinking about 297 00:20:35,615 --> 00:20:37,455 creating one of those things? 298 00:20:37,575 --> 00:20:40,235 What were the challenges and what were the payoffs 299 00:20:40,235 --> 00:20:42,615 that you would say were the biggest highlights 300 00:20:42,615 --> 00:20:44,395 of your timeline just from when you decide 301 00:20:44,395 --> 00:20:45,895 you're going to do this to shipping it? 302 00:20:46,415 --> 00:20:48,195 Yeah, I guess the first thing I would say is just do it. 303 00:20:48,375 --> 00:20:53,295 Figure it out, whether it's a product or a podcast 304 00:20:53,295 --> 00:20:55,395 or who knows, you want to write more. 305 00:20:55,615 --> 00:20:56,115 Just do it. 306 00:20:56,515 --> 00:20:58,835 Don't worry about it being perfect to begin with. 307 00:20:58,835 --> 00:21:03,895 Like I said, when we created the game, I had no other Bitcoiners to know to go test it with. 308 00:21:04,035 --> 00:21:05,855 And so we just put it out there and hoped. 309 00:21:06,095 --> 00:21:09,155 And then secondarily, like we've touched on a few times, Bitcoiners are here to help. 310 00:21:09,455 --> 00:21:20,375 So if you see other people that are doing similar things, I mean, you have questions or you want to run ideas, reach out, send a DM or try to find a way to get in touch with them. 311 00:21:20,975 --> 00:21:27,475 Nine times out of 10, you'll probably find that that person would be willing to answer a few emails or jump on a call or whatever. 312 00:21:27,595 --> 00:21:28,395 Do Telegram messages. 313 00:21:28,395 --> 00:21:29,055 Just doesn't matter. 314 00:21:29,275 --> 00:21:30,375 And so just do it. 315 00:21:30,715 --> 00:21:34,115 Reach out to people if you think that they might be able to help answer any questions 316 00:21:34,115 --> 00:21:37,355 you have, because you'll find that they'll say yes most of the time. 317 00:21:37,615 --> 00:21:41,115 Going back to those things that people think about Bitcoiners, they're probably some of 318 00:21:41,115 --> 00:21:44,195 the nicest, most generous people I've ever met. 319 00:21:44,975 --> 00:21:48,675 The completely opposite of what you might think the general media or conception is. 320 00:21:48,915 --> 00:21:50,635 And so just reach out, do it. 321 00:21:51,015 --> 00:21:52,595 There's always a need for more things. 322 00:21:52,595 --> 00:21:58,215 We're so early in all this that there can't be too much of anything, most likely. 323 00:21:58,395 --> 00:22:06,335 totally totally agree i'd love to shift into a little bit more of why you think bitcoin is an 324 00:22:06,335 --> 00:22:11,795 important thing for children and families to be learning about and this is something we talk about 325 00:22:11,795 --> 00:22:16,635 a lot a lot to show how it's important for young folks to folks to get this stuff and figure out 326 00:22:16,635 --> 00:22:22,415 why bitcoin is so important in what we call fiat world in the bitcoin circles how everything that 327 00:22:22,415 --> 00:22:29,215 we see in society today is ruled by this magical background money printer that's causing all these 328 00:22:29,215 --> 00:22:34,895 different problems. And it's a challenge really getting through to people just the depth of this 329 00:22:34,895 --> 00:22:40,215 problem. And I'm curious of your thoughts, like how would you explain to parents out there why 330 00:22:40,215 --> 00:22:44,015 their kids should even care or why they should care about their kids learning about Bitcoin 331 00:22:44,015 --> 00:22:47,795 through any method and why sound money is so important for their future? 332 00:22:47,795 --> 00:23:08,215 Yeah, I guess the first thing I would say is, I'll speak for myself, most people we talk to, you know, think about back to when you were growing up, how much of the time in, let's say you went to a traditional school, you're going to school every day, how much of that time were they actually teaching you about finance? 333 00:23:08,215 --> 00:23:11,675 in general, leave Bitcoin to the side. Obviously, when we were growing up, they weren't teaching 334 00:23:11,675 --> 00:23:19,035 about Bitcoin, but teaching you about checkbooks and debt and taking out loans. And how do you pay 335 00:23:19,035 --> 00:23:23,955 for a school? How do you pay for a house? How do you pay for a car? How do credit cards work? 336 00:23:23,955 --> 00:23:28,795 None of that, for the most part, was really touched on at all. I remember a few things. 337 00:23:28,875 --> 00:23:32,635 I remember in elementary school doing like a, I forget what they called it, but it was like a day 338 00:23:32,635 --> 00:23:37,195 in the life type thing where they set up kind of a fake city. You all had different roles and you 339 00:23:37,195 --> 00:23:41,715 could go in and play around and spend money and that sort of stuff. And I, I remember really 340 00:23:41,715 --> 00:23:47,315 enjoying that and being like, Oh, this is really cool. Like, but then that's it. Like why those 341 00:23:47,315 --> 00:23:52,255 are the things that should be focused on the most, you know, reading, writing, math, money. 342 00:23:52,255 --> 00:23:57,435 And so if you believe that, if you believe that, you know, financial education should be 343 00:23:57,435 --> 00:24:03,415 a key component to what your kids are learning, no matter what the age they are, then take that 344 00:24:03,415 --> 00:24:09,275 next step and say, well, as I look into the future, what aspects of financial education are going to be 345 00:24:09,275 --> 00:24:15,195 most relevant to my kids? Okay. You know, odds are there's still, there's going to be relevance 346 00:24:15,195 --> 00:24:19,495 around learning about dollars. Like it's not going to go away tomorrow as much as so many Bitcoiners 347 00:24:19,495 --> 00:24:23,555 might think. There's probably a good amount of time left that the dollar system will be out there. 348 00:24:23,815 --> 00:24:29,555 So there's that, you know, they need to learn about what a bank is, but also wrap in, you know, 349 00:24:29,555 --> 00:24:35,235 what is the actual future? And if you see Bitcoin being part of that, then that's something you 350 00:24:35,235 --> 00:24:39,535 should start weaving in to what you're talking about with your kids. Especially if you're a 351 00:24:39,535 --> 00:24:43,395 Bitcoiner, like don't just hide the fact from your kids, like they want to learn about it. 352 00:24:43,915 --> 00:24:48,815 We teach our daughter all the time in very random way. I guess you should say that. 353 00:24:49,475 --> 00:24:53,375 The fact that she's gone to conferences with us has really been the catapult to making her 354 00:24:53,375 --> 00:24:58,115 understand it more. When she sees people scanning the QR card, she knows it's going to her wallet. 355 00:24:58,115 --> 00:25:03,915 And that has led us to have conversations with her around, okay, what's the difference between Bitcoin and dollars? 356 00:25:04,115 --> 00:25:12,115 She understands the concept, the fact that in general, the value of a Bitcoin will go up and the value of a dollar will go down. 357 00:25:12,315 --> 00:25:20,475 And so when she's thinking about spending versus saving, she wants to spend her dollars or her coins versus her Bitcoin. 358 00:25:20,775 --> 00:25:24,295 Over the past few months, she's gotten extremely into collecting baseball cards. 359 00:25:24,295 --> 00:25:27,575 And so there's a baseball card store down the street from her house. 360 00:25:27,675 --> 00:25:29,575 And we like going down there and looking at things. 361 00:25:30,535 --> 00:25:34,555 She'll save up her, you know, two, three, $4, whatever it is to buy a pack of cards. 362 00:25:35,215 --> 00:25:41,215 But she knows, she's like, well, I don't have, I have Bitcoin to spend, but I'm not going to spend it on these things. 363 00:25:41,315 --> 00:25:43,355 So I need to, I need to spend more dollars. 364 00:25:43,435 --> 00:25:46,295 And I also know the conference isn't for another month and a half. 365 00:25:46,655 --> 00:25:48,135 Like, how am I going to get more? 366 00:25:48,235 --> 00:25:49,775 So she'll say to us, like, it's not fair. 367 00:25:49,835 --> 00:25:51,555 You guys get to go to work every day and earn money. 368 00:25:51,555 --> 00:25:52,175 And I can't. 369 00:25:52,175 --> 00:25:57,715 And so it's a balance trying to figure out how you teach your kid about money in various ways and spending and saving. 370 00:25:58,135 --> 00:26:00,115 But I would just say immerse them in it. 371 00:26:00,415 --> 00:26:01,235 Talk to them about it. 372 00:26:01,315 --> 00:26:06,855 Talk to them about what you're doing as a couple, you know, paying for things, going out to eat at restaurants. 373 00:26:07,235 --> 00:26:13,235 Bring them into the conversation so they can start to see that, you know, there's aspects that they should, they will know about. 374 00:26:13,235 --> 00:26:15,495 And honestly, they'll just ask questions themselves. 375 00:26:15,995 --> 00:26:17,995 And that would be the easiest way for you to teach them. 376 00:26:18,215 --> 00:26:22,115 They'll come up with the craziest questions and just answer them and see where the conversation goes. 377 00:26:22,175 --> 00:26:28,455 yeah that's super cool i just had to google to double check the name of gresham's law which i'm 378 00:26:28,455 --> 00:26:31,815 sure you've heard of yeah which is exactly what you just described that your own daughter you 379 00:26:31,815 --> 00:26:38,155 watched her go through this as she was learning and learning by doing yeah and for people that 380 00:26:38,155 --> 00:26:42,535 don't know gresham's law i just googled it says gresham observed that bad money was driving out 381 00:26:42,535 --> 00:26:47,915 good money from circulation bad money is a currency with equal or less value than its face value good 382 00:26:47,915 --> 00:26:52,275 money has the potential for greater value than its face value, people will choose to use bad 383 00:26:52,275 --> 00:26:57,635 money first and hold on to good money. So this is like a classic Bitcoin or lesson we learned while, 384 00:26:57,735 --> 00:27:00,795 you know, reading the Bitcoin standard and go through these books like, oh, that makes sense. 385 00:27:01,295 --> 00:27:05,015 And your daughter doesn't even need to read the Bitcoin standard. She just has to 386 00:27:05,015 --> 00:27:10,195 just play with the thing and she learned it. So it's really powerful way to just imprint these 387 00:27:10,195 --> 00:27:16,275 ideas, these powerful ideas of reality into young brains, because shoving books in their faces is 388 00:27:16,275 --> 00:27:18,255 always going to work, especially if they're a big 389 00:27:18,255 --> 00:27:19,955 textbook-like one like the Bitcoin standard. 390 00:27:20,295 --> 00:27:22,455 Yes, exactly. A five-year-old 391 00:27:22,455 --> 00:27:37,882 definitely isn diving into the Bitcoin standard but they can dive into our books Yeah absolutely So we didn even really talk about your books as well So could we maybe review which ones you have there that may be interesting for parents Yeah So we have three of them now And so our first book was Goodnight Bitcoin So the one 392 00:27:37,882 --> 00:27:42,342 closest to my shoulder here. And so that book, you've probably all read Goodnight Moon, 393 00:27:42,842 --> 00:27:47,862 Goodnight Baseball, Goodnight Gorilla. There's a whole line. And so we wrote that story around the 394 00:27:47,862 --> 00:27:53,862 time Charlotte was one or two, I guess. And so it tells the story of Satoshi creating Bitcoin for 395 00:27:53,862 --> 00:27:59,762 the first time in a, in a, your typical rhyming board book type way, um, using all of our characters 396 00:27:59,762 --> 00:28:04,702 and, um, how Satoshi and Hal come together and overcome the other characters, not thinking they 397 00:28:04,702 --> 00:28:08,822 can do it. And, and at the end of the story, Bitcoin has been created. Um, so that was our 398 00:28:08,822 --> 00:28:14,742 first story. Um, the second one was if you give a monster a Bitcoin. Um, and so that is similar to 399 00:28:14,742 --> 00:28:19,882 if you give a mouse a cookie, um, and that story touches more on kind of the good that Bitcoin can 400 00:28:19,882 --> 00:28:23,882 do in the world if it comes together and being able to utilize it. 401 00:28:24,422 --> 00:28:25,362 So those were our first two. 402 00:28:25,462 --> 00:28:28,342 And then our last one, which just came out not even a year ago, was actually our first 403 00:28:28,342 --> 00:28:29,942 one that we didn't author ourselves. 404 00:28:30,322 --> 00:28:35,342 So Tomer Storle, who those may know, has written many different books and articles that are 405 00:28:35,342 --> 00:28:35,682 out there. 406 00:28:35,942 --> 00:28:36,662 Had written a story. 407 00:28:36,922 --> 00:28:38,122 I had him early on the podcast. 408 00:28:38,342 --> 00:28:39,882 He's one of my favorite writers in space. 409 00:28:39,882 --> 00:28:40,962 Yeah, Tomer's awesome. 410 00:28:41,102 --> 00:28:46,362 And so he had written a story called Satoshi Nakamoto and his Bitcoin invention years ago. 411 00:28:46,362 --> 00:28:47,402 And I had known about it. 412 00:28:47,402 --> 00:28:51,362 He had gone through and people might have heard him actually reading the story on a few podcasts. 413 00:28:52,162 --> 00:28:56,062 And then long story short, he got sidetracked, never took the time to actually put it out there. 414 00:28:57,242 --> 00:29:10,522 But shortly after Pacific Bitcoin 2023, yeah, 2023, he reached out to us and said, hey, you know, I want to get this book out there, but I don't have the time to do it. 415 00:29:11,602 --> 00:29:15,862 And everybody keeps telling me you guys would be the perfect ones to partner with, to make it happen. 416 00:29:15,862 --> 00:29:17,482 And so, you know, let's do it. 417 00:29:17,922 --> 00:29:21,042 And so we made that happen, you know, so it's his story. 418 00:29:21,222 --> 00:29:23,002 So it's Tomer's story from the start. 419 00:29:23,062 --> 00:29:23,842 We didn't edit anything. 420 00:29:23,942 --> 00:29:29,742 The only thing we did was create the illustrations with our characters to talk about that story. 421 00:29:29,742 --> 00:29:34,722 And that is similar to Goodnight Bitcoin in the sense that it's telling the story of Bitcoin being created. 422 00:29:34,962 --> 00:29:43,362 But it's also in a very Tomer-esque whimsical way, talking about the good that Bitcoin can do and going down those rabbit holes. 423 00:29:43,362 --> 00:30:10,582 And so while the first two stories are kind of a target audience of, you know, infants up to say two or three years old, the story that Tomer wrote is more kind of four or five on up through 12 year audience. So having all three of those kind of gives a nice spectrum of ages out there that we could touch on from the book side of things. And, you know, we're, we're big readers with our kids at night. So I'm sure most families out there, you know, whether it's before bed or whatever it may be, being able to grab these stories. 424 00:30:10,582 --> 00:30:25,382 You know, when it comes to the younger kids, one of the things that we think is most important is they're just recognizing these characters and understanding words like Satoshi, Bitcoin, how, like understanding that terminology is just as important as anything else. 425 00:30:25,442 --> 00:30:35,982 And that's something that they're then comfortable with, you know, hearing the word Satoshi isn't going to be foreign to them 10 years down the line when maybe they're learning how an actual Bitcoin transaction works or who knows what. 426 00:30:35,982 --> 00:30:46,822 So it's just, if these characters that we create can bring comfort to a kid, 5, 10, 15 years down the line, then we've done our job as kind of that early education side of things. 427 00:30:48,182 --> 00:31:01,782 I think that's a really good goal to have because it's, it seems so simple and small to us, but for a kid who's has that young brain, that sponge that they're absorbing all these things, that could be a huge catalyst for them to completely change their life. 428 00:31:01,782 --> 00:31:03,922 So we can't discount that it's massive. 429 00:31:03,922 --> 00:31:05,542 And I think that's super cool. 430 00:31:05,542 --> 00:31:07,402 I'm sure you understand that from what you've seen. 431 00:31:07,642 --> 00:31:10,602 I'd also be curious what you think are like the bigger, what's the next goal? 432 00:31:10,722 --> 00:31:13,562 What are the bigger long-term goals you have for this company? 433 00:31:15,142 --> 00:31:15,742 You know, who knows? 434 00:31:15,862 --> 00:31:23,322 It's a mixture of things, you know, just being, I guess I'll speak for ourselves and kind of 435 00:31:23,322 --> 00:31:27,402 so many of the other small Bitcoin e-commerce companies out there. 436 00:31:27,482 --> 00:31:32,762 So whether it's a Shomery or a BTC pins or Bitcoin trading cards, free market kids, 437 00:31:32,762 --> 00:31:38,922 panty for Bitcoin. There's so many other companies out there in the space that they're doing their 438 00:31:38,922 --> 00:31:43,722 best to put content out there and put products out there and to continue to grow. Like we touched on 439 00:31:43,722 --> 00:31:49,622 before, it's such a niche audience and being able to tap into it, especially over the past year, 440 00:31:49,702 --> 00:31:57,002 has shifted. And I have bi-weekly calls with a few different people that are part of those groups 441 00:31:57,002 --> 00:32:01,742 and just talking about what we see in the space from a sales perspective, from an engagement 442 00:32:01,742 --> 00:32:08,982 perspective. And over the past 12 months, it's probably been 12 of the hardest months from a 443 00:32:08,982 --> 00:32:13,522 sales perspective, which is kind of funny in the sense that the price, you would say, oh, 444 00:32:13,922 --> 00:32:16,902 you know, the price has gone up, more people should be getting interested, which typically, 445 00:32:17,062 --> 00:32:21,562 if you kind of track a sales cycle from, I'll speak for Shamri, you know, the price goes up, 446 00:32:21,602 --> 00:32:25,002 you see more eyeballs, we don't, we don't pay for marketing, you know, we're small, 447 00:32:25,402 --> 00:32:30,442 you know, it's all organic. But my hunch is it's a mixture of two things that's happening. 448 00:32:30,442 --> 00:32:40,202 One, so much of that price growth has happened outside of the organic space that you might find on Twitter or X or Noster or those places. 449 00:32:40,902 --> 00:32:51,262 So the eyeballs are less that are coming in so far because they're more ETF buyers mixed with the dynamics of people on those platforms has continued to shift. 450 00:32:51,262 --> 00:33:19,102 And so when I think about what's next, it's hard to say because I don't know where all this is, where everything's going. But the one thing that we'll stay focused on is being able to create products and ways for families to, you know, come together. But I say all that before to say, you know, if you're out there and you're listening to this, whether it's for Shamri or any other small Bitcoin company, you know, and you see their posts come through or whatever, giving it a like or giving it a retweet can go a long way. 451 00:33:19,102 --> 00:33:23,962 Um, cause we're like, I said, no, most of these 99% of the time, nobody has a marketing 452 00:33:23,962 --> 00:33:24,322 budget. 453 00:33:24,722 --> 00:33:27,722 Uh, you know, we're just, we're creating things on our own, you know, we're in our house, 454 00:33:27,782 --> 00:33:30,622 putting, putting content out there and products out there for everybody. 455 00:33:30,622 --> 00:33:34,562 So, um, if you do see that, you know, I'll speak for Shamri and all these other groups, 456 00:33:34,562 --> 00:33:39,342 you know, try to show, show some love, um, in small ways, uh, can go, can go a long way 457 00:33:39,342 --> 00:33:41,642 into, to, um, seeing where everything can go. 458 00:33:43,302 --> 00:33:43,922 Very cool. 459 00:33:44,102 --> 00:33:44,502 Very cool. 460 00:33:44,542 --> 00:33:45,022 I love that. 461 00:33:45,022 --> 00:33:47,102 And I love the trajectory it's on. 462 00:33:47,342 --> 00:33:51,222 And just like all the other Bitcoiners who are building stuff, myself included with this 463 00:33:51,222 --> 00:33:56,302 podcast, is we can see the exciting future ahead as more people come into Bitcoin. 464 00:33:56,402 --> 00:33:57,482 It's going to help all of us together. 465 00:33:57,482 --> 00:34:02,422 And so this is why, you know, whether it's kids learning from your game and coming to 466 00:34:02,422 --> 00:34:05,702 find my podcast or people listening to this podcast and going to buy our game, it's just 467 00:34:05,702 --> 00:34:09,402 a big team effort, which is why it's so much fun and such a pleasure to talk to people. 468 00:34:10,122 --> 00:34:11,762 Scott, I think this could be a pretty good episode. 469 00:34:11,762 --> 00:34:13,142 we could keep fairly short and sweet 470 00:34:13,142 --> 00:34:15,142 as just sort of a chat that we've just had here. 471 00:34:15,182 --> 00:34:16,542 We've covered a lot of good things already. 472 00:34:16,722 --> 00:34:17,162 I think that, 473 00:34:17,282 --> 00:34:18,582 is there anything else you wanted to cover 474 00:34:18,582 --> 00:34:20,762 or could we just kind of wrap up here 475 00:34:20,762 --> 00:34:21,862 and just give people all the links 476 00:34:21,862 --> 00:34:23,642 that we could to help support you guys? 477 00:34:24,102 --> 00:34:25,862 No, so I guess the one thing just to, 478 00:34:26,262 --> 00:34:28,102 I guess I let the cat out of the bag here 479 00:34:28,102 --> 00:34:30,062 for something I am about to launch. 480 00:34:30,202 --> 00:34:31,282 So we're actually planning on launching 481 00:34:31,282 --> 00:34:32,962 the Bitcoin for Family show shortly. 482 00:34:33,442 --> 00:34:35,762 So I'll probably make that announcement. 483 00:34:36,002 --> 00:34:37,122 Not sure when you're going to post this, 484 00:34:37,282 --> 00:34:38,982 but probably sometime this week. 485 00:34:38,982 --> 00:34:40,162 Probably later than that. 486 00:34:40,262 --> 00:34:40,902 So you got some time. 487 00:34:41,122 --> 00:34:41,562 Got some time. 488 00:34:41,562 --> 00:34:43,022 I have a big lineup to get through. 489 00:34:43,262 --> 00:34:43,742 Yeah, I'm sure. 490 00:34:43,982 --> 00:34:44,602 That's what I figured. 491 00:34:44,802 --> 00:34:46,882 And so, yeah, just going on to that, 492 00:34:47,202 --> 00:34:48,302 kind of what's next for Sean Murray, 493 00:34:48,342 --> 00:34:49,142 as you touched on that. 494 00:34:49,142 --> 00:34:51,102 So the idea behind this show is, 495 00:34:51,422 --> 00:34:55,282 it's 1% about Bitcoin and 99% about everything else. 496 00:34:55,462 --> 00:34:57,342 Bringing other Bitcoin families onto the show 497 00:34:57,342 --> 00:34:59,702 to learn about tips for newborn babies, 498 00:35:00,122 --> 00:35:01,602 tips for traveling with families, 499 00:35:01,782 --> 00:35:03,702 tips for teaching kids about Bitcoin, 500 00:35:04,062 --> 00:35:05,962 tips for just anything you can think of 501 00:35:05,962 --> 00:35:08,462 around kind of that family dynamic is the idea 502 00:35:08,462 --> 00:35:10,182 because there's so many, 503 00:35:10,182 --> 00:35:13,842 I'm not there to talk about Bitcoin price or tariffs or interest rates. 504 00:35:14,342 --> 00:35:19,042 You know, we just want to have a space for Bitcoiner families to come and learn from each other. 505 00:35:19,202 --> 00:35:21,862 Like you said, you know, there's so many Bitcoin babies out there. 506 00:35:21,962 --> 00:35:23,102 And so that audience is growing. 507 00:35:23,262 --> 00:35:27,302 And so if you're listening to this at this point in time, you know, find, you know, go find that feed. 508 00:35:27,462 --> 00:35:27,842 Start getting. 509 00:35:28,002 --> 00:35:30,742 My goal is to have a few episodes out before the conference in Vegas. 510 00:35:30,842 --> 00:35:32,662 So between now and May. 511 00:35:32,902 --> 00:35:38,002 And so we'll start putting some content out there, whether it's on, you know, Apple, Spotify, YouTube. 512 00:35:38,002 --> 00:35:41,742 come find us fountain being able to, to grow that audience. 513 00:35:41,742 --> 00:35:43,922 And if you're interested in to come on the show at that point, you know, 514 00:35:43,922 --> 00:35:47,882 reach out, um, I'll have a way to, to get you on and just kind of just talk, 515 00:35:47,962 --> 00:35:50,602 talk about what others can learn from, from families that are out there. 516 00:35:51,622 --> 00:35:53,742 That that's amazing. I love that idea too, 517 00:35:53,762 --> 00:35:55,662 because I don't think there really is one of those yet. 518 00:35:55,662 --> 00:35:57,102 That's that'd be a great niche to fill. 519 00:35:57,122 --> 00:35:59,222 And there's so many people that would love it. Like you said, 520 00:35:59,442 --> 00:36:02,362 yeah, no, that's, that's the goal. So we'll, we'll see where it all goes. 521 00:36:02,942 --> 00:36:04,022 Very exciting. Very cool. 522 00:36:04,022 --> 00:36:06,082 Well, I will be sure to include the links for that. 523 00:36:06,082 --> 00:36:08,262 because I should be uploading this in the future 524 00:36:08,262 --> 00:36:09,322 and up to where you'll have 525 00:36:09,322 --> 00:36:10,702 at least a couple episodes out already. 526 00:36:10,902 --> 00:36:12,802 So I will make sure to put that in the show notes. 527 00:36:12,882 --> 00:36:14,962 I'll put all your website and all this stuff 528 00:36:14,962 --> 00:36:16,822 so people can go find your games, books, 529 00:36:17,002 --> 00:36:17,942 all that fun stuff. 530 00:36:18,542 --> 00:36:19,602 Scott, it's been an absolute pleasure 531 00:36:19,602 --> 00:36:20,382 chatting with you, man. 532 00:36:20,442 --> 00:36:21,302 Thank you for coming by 533 00:36:21,302 --> 00:36:23,522 and I'm very excited to see what you continue to build. 534 00:36:23,882 --> 00:36:24,902 No, thank you very much, Ben. 535 00:36:24,962 --> 00:36:26,042 And look forward to hopefully meeting you 536 00:36:26,042 --> 00:36:27,042 in person one day too. 537 00:36:27,122 --> 00:36:27,842 I'll be in Vegas. 538 00:36:28,002 --> 00:36:28,682 So I'll swing by. 539 00:36:28,722 --> 00:36:30,082 Are you going to have a table out there, you said? 540 00:36:30,162 --> 00:36:30,442 Yeah, yeah. 541 00:36:30,542 --> 00:36:30,862 Amazing. 542 00:36:31,102 --> 00:36:33,182 So we will be in the, for you and everybody else. 543 00:36:33,242 --> 00:36:35,102 So we'll be in our typical spot in the Bitcoin bazaar. 544 00:36:35,102 --> 00:36:38,802 Excellent. I'm going to have to find someone to challenge and come play the game with.