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You wouldn't have a game if you didn't have rules.

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You can't play baseball if you don't have rules of baseball.

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You can't play basketball if you don't have rules of basketball.

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These games don't exist, right?

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So in any part, in every aspect of society, having rules actually helps us have the freedom

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to do what it is that we want to do.

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And so it's the same thing with the money, right?

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If we're just willy-nilly printing money and we have the freedom to print and do whatever

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we want, right, we have absolute chaos.

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But when we have responsibility with our money, because our money is sound and our money is

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going to provide for us for many, many generations, right? We have rules around how we store our money

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and what we do with our money and how we're going to save and spend and where we're going to put it.

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And what we're thinking about is in terms of what we need now versus what we need later,

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right? All of a sudden, we have all this freedom that opens us up to actually having the life that

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we want to have. Hello, everybody. Thank you for coming by for another episode of the Ben Wormin

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podcast. I appreciate you being here. Today, we have Morgan Richard, who is a financial planner

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at Origin Wealth Advisors, a Bitcoin consultant at Money Owners, and author of Personal Finance

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Quick Start Guide. Did I get all those pieces correctly? I know there's so many things that

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you're doing. It's hard to keep track of them all. You got them all. Thank you.

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Thanks so much for being here, Morgan. I really appreciate you coming.

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Yeah. Thanks for having me, Ben. I'm happy to be here.

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So you are a Bitcoin financial advisor, which is a very rare breed out there these days. I haven't

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talked to a ton of financial advisors, but I know that you are certainly a black sheep among that

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profession. So why don't you tell me a little bit about your backstory, how you got into the

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financial world in general, maybe just your education, your career, and how Bitcoin ended

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up coming into that? Yeah, sure. So like every good financial advisor, I started my studies in

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medicine. So I thought I wanted to be a doctor. And it turns out that I'm a little bit of a

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germaphobe, um, must be the Jewish side of me. And so like I was, uh, volunteered at a hospital.

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They asked me to change bed sheets and I was like, I could not, I can't, I can't do this.

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I quit after one day. Um, and then I proceeded to change what I was doing with my life. I started

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taking economics classes and thinking about other things. Um, I thought it would be like really cool

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to trade commodities. Um, and, um, but I never actually ended up getting into that. Um, I ended

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up getting a job actually as a coffee girl on the floor of the American Stock Exchange back when that

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existed. And I literally did that I got men coffee, while they were yelling in pits, and they

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promoted me thank God. And then I was one of the people yelling in a pit. It's not really good for

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my character. I'll be honest, I'm not really a yellow and screamer. And I also freeze sometimes

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when people ask me to do math on the fly. Like I feel like I can normally do math when I'm under

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pressure, all of a sudden, it's like, I don't know, two plus two, it's probably eight, you know,

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so obviously, you can't do that when you're screaming in a pit, and you have to like, get it

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right on the spot. So I wanted to move into something also, that was kind of more my personality,

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where I can actually help people. That was one of the reasons why I wanted to get into medicine to

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begin one of those because I wanted to help people. And so when you're just, you know,

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kind of pushing paper around and making markets and providing liquidity, that to me didn't feel

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that meaningful. Not to say that other people don't find meaning in it. And I'm not trying to

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offend anyone in any way. Just for me personally, it wasn't, it wasn't my calling. And so I ended up

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taking a job in wealth management, working for a very large private wealth team at Merrill Lynch.

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And I really liked what I was doing. I just didn't necessarily like where I was doing it or who I was

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doing it for. And I didn't know that there was kind of a other world out there in all honesty.

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And so I ended up switching to a different team and we moved to UBS. And at that point I was like,

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okay, all of these places are just the same, I guess, like, maybe this isn't the right place for

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me. And then in order to start my business is kind of silly and stupid, which is why I know,

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like God has sort of led me in the right direction, because nobody makes this kind of business

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decision. I heard from a friend of mine who I didn't think was all that competent, that he was

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starting his own business providing financial advice. And I was like, you're good. Okay, like,

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if you're gonna do that, certainly I can do that. And so at 28, I basically started my own business.

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um and yeah 11 years later here we are so uh but along the way like i have always been a libertarian

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and interested in sound money um was a goal bug for many years until i actually learned about

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bitcoin and when i first learned about bitcoin um was it was very exciting but i couldn't figure

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out a way to like buy it without getting myself into some sort of seedy corner situation in new

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york and i didn't feel that comfortable with mount gox with like my traditional financial background

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So I just didn't think about it and left it alone.

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And then when I met my now husband, Pierre Richard, I he brought it up on our first date, of course, because why wouldn't he?

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And I was like, oh, yeah, I remember about that thing, you know.

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Tell us about the dating profile. Yeah, that's what I need to hear.

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So Pierre was living in San Antonio at the time and I was living in New York and I wasn't having much luck dating.

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And I had put on my dating profile a quote from Rothbard.

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I don't exactly remember the quote, but it said Marie Rothbard on my profile.

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and he was curious if there was anyone nationally who um knew anything about any of his favorite

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economists so he typed Rothbard into like the search function and he found just me uh amazing

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and probably still the only like has there ever been another woman to put that in there I don't

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think so honestly I don't think so so yeah so again meant to be um you know I feel like a lot

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of the things when I look back on life, I was like, you know, there's definitely God's hand

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in everything because there's no way I could have ended up where I am today just by my own accord.

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So thankfully, that's the way that it went. And so, yeah, I wouldn't say, though, I wouldn't call

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myself a Bitcoin maximalist when I first learned about it. I thought it was interesting. I thought

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it's something that could become something. But I actually tend to be like more pragmatic in general

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about things and like to kind of wait and see what's going to happen. I'm not as visionary as

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my husband is like my husband right off the bat saw it as like this is the future you know I'm not

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that kind of person it takes me like more time you know I'm the kind of person that like dips your

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toe into the pool to see if it's cold or not you know and then I'm like okay I'll go into my ankles

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you know I'm like that and so it took me actually several years it took me three years to really be

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where I am like sort of more I guess with a high conviction on Bitcoin so from like 2013 to 2016

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I was sort of I was interested in it. I like, you know, I understood it. But I didn't like fully grasp, I guess it took me it really took me a full three years. And so I think that people when they often see our story specifically, they're like, Oh, you know, you just have to get yourself, you know, a wife, you tell her on her first date, like about Bitcoin, and then she's orange pilled, and then it's all gonna work out for you, you know. And that's not really that like, that's not the truth. The reality is, is that like, for some people, yeah, it clicks immediately. And then, you know, all of a sudden, they're Bitcoin maxi. For other people, it could take

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long period of time before they're, you know, they have that kind of same conviction. And so

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I guess, to all those out there who are searching for a loved one who's into Bitcoin, like be patient,

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I guess is my advice. And I do have to just ask that because you are part of a true Bitcoin family

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and you guys is that Rothbard in the dating profile story is absolutely hilarious. My question

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would be to you, like, why are there not more women out there? They're really these are like

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hardcore libertarian types. I mean, everyone knows that, you know, whether it's PC or not to say

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there's just more men that are kind of into this. So how, how come there aren't more women? And how

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can we get more of them on board with this mindset? Yeah, so I and I don't, again, not trying to

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offend people, but I do think it's more in women's nature to be compassionate. And that it's a

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challenge, actually, for men to be compassionate. And because of that, men actually need to do more

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work to be compassionate. And so in some regards, right, like women are blessed, because they have

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that in their nature, and they can care for others, and they can see beyond themselves. And

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just by nature, we're a little less self-centered. That's not like a blanket statement, right? I know

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plenty of women that are super self-centered. I know lots of men that are really compassionate

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and care about others, right? In general, though, right, when you take a group of women, they're

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more likely to be more compassionate and less, you know, less self-centered about what they're

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doing versus men. And so I think from that standpoint, right, if you look at women as women

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or people who generally are givers and want to help and all the things and right and and get

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something out of that compassion right um then from that standpoint from a political standpoint

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it's like okay then from there you have to decipher the difference between what it actually

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means to be compassionate like truly compassionate and how you can help folks rather than on the

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surface level of what's compassion right because on the surface level yeah we want to help everybody

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i want everyone to have everything that they need all the time right i would love for you know people

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to have clean water and good food to eat and everyone everything's like equal right so not

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equal is maybe not the right word but equitable right um but how to actually do that is a layer

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deeper and you know and taking the time to actually think about the next layer requires some sort of

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interest in actually wanting to deal with that rather than kind of some more surface level

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problems uh like on the day-to-day versus the deeper level that might women might get into in

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their own lives and careers and so forth so that's what i think why it's a little bit easier for men

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to gravitate more towards these like anarcho-capitalist type political views is because

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like just by nature they're not as like inclined to be as helpful right off the bat.

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Moral of the story, put more Austrian economists in your bio and you will find a top quality

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man out there for all the ladies listening.

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I mean, Pierre Richard is just a stud.

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Everyone in Bitcoin knows him.

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I got to meet him when I was in Austin.

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I didn't get to meet you, but I went to all the Austin meetups I could and he was always

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around just chatting with people and just the coolest guy. Oh, thank you. Yeah, he's the best,

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obviously. So let's look at the current, we love to use this word fiat as sort of the encapsulation

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of the current financial system where you've got the banking and the money printers and just these

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trillions of dollars being thrown around everywhere. How do you explain, like when you're going through

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the orange pilling process to a client or a friend or a family member how do you explain to them what

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this fiat financial paradigm really is how it works sort of to lay the foundation for where we're

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working right now in the current modern world yeah i guess like in regards to orange billing

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i always like to start and see where the person actually is because some people are just kind of

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closed off to it and you can't have this kind of discussion right and so if that's the case then

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And there's kind of no point. And I don't even bother, honestly, when people are inquisitive and curious and want to learn right at that point, like you have an open door.

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And I think that it's a lesson really in general for people, whether you be in the Bitcoin world or not, to just be open to ideas that other people have.

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Even if you know in your heart that they're totally wrong, right?

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Like we can always find some sort of common ground, I think, with others.

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And it often like it leads us to being very divided in general and makes it a lot more difficult to have these conversations.

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So like, imagine that you're like on two different peaks of a mountain, right? Like you're on peak in the east side and somebody else is on peak on the west side, right? Like at some point, there's a valley that you both connect to, right? It may be really, really far away. And it may not be that interesting in the valley. And it may not be all that important, really, right? But at the end of the day, the valley does connect these two mountains, right? And so I think that if like, if we have that part in our mind, then you can always find some kind of common ground with people.

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and it might not necessarily be the fiat story

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that right off the bat that Bitcoiners like to say,

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you know, about like what the government is doing

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to our money and how like there all this corruption and people are messing with it and you want to be outside the system right I think a lot of these things they might be fringe views for the average person Whereas you know just talking about like somebody going to the grocery store and what

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they're experiencing, like that might be a good entry point depending on who you're talking to.

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So I think like the number one thing that I always tell people is that you have to understand who

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you're talking to, understand whether or not they're even open to hearing your ideas, and then

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also just see where they're coming from. Because if you understand where they're coming from, then

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you have some sort of entry point into talking about what Bitcoin is, because the reality is

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that money touches almost everything in our lives, right? And so there's always some sort of entry

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point where you can find some kind of common ground where money has probably been manipulated

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in some way in something that is important to somebody else. And from there, you can actually

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have the discussion. Yeah. And speaking of those entry points where people have something that

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resonates with them, I feel like pretty much everyone is feeling the effects of inflation,

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even if they don't really understand what it is or the underground mechanics that are causing

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everything to get more expensive. So how do you explain inflation to people that are just starting

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to wake up and ask these correct questions? Yeah, definitely. I think that's a great question.

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So one of the things that I found really interesting in my practice, which is sort of

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kind of a side note to your question, then I'll get to like the inflation question itself,

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was that all of a sudden we started seeing asset prices creeping up and all of a sudden everything

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started looking really rosy like financial pictures for people that in the past we were like

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oh i'm not really sure or like you're gonna have to retire around 65 you know based on what we were

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doing all of a sudden like the numbers would drop from 65 to like 63 and then 60 and then 59 and

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you're like oh wow you know they're really doing well they're saving quite a lot uh we saw a lot

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of this happened like um in the road basically and then obviously like when covid like markets

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crashed um like that wasn't the case and then markets recovered really really quickly because

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we started printing money and asset prices had inflation again um but then when we got consumer

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price inflation which came after that right all of a sudden all the numbers started to take back

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up again and i remember this being like sort of really deeply being ingrained in my mind of like

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okay when things start to get really really rosy in financial pictures like we actually really need

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to fully assess what's going on in the client's picture and not just look at these numbers head

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on. Like we need to really go back and reassess like what savings rates were, where they're

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spending money and so forth, what categories can potentially be affected and taking more of a deep

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dive so that we're not necessarily giving the rosy picture so quickly off the bat, right? Because if

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you have to flip from the rosy to the less rosy, right, people obviously get upset. And so that I

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think is sort of like, in my mind, really set the stage though, like consumer price inflation is

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something that people feel very, very quickly, right? When all of a sudden you used to go to the

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grocery store and spend $100. And now that for the same basket of groceries, you're spending $200.

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Or if you're paying attention to prices, and your milk used to cost $5. And now it costs $7.50,

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right? These are things that people notice. And that are undeniable, right? Like when when

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Bitcoiners say like, Oh, the government's messing with your money, and they're printing money,

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and they're doing this, this and that. But if you don't necessarily see it other than like your 401k

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is going up, you know, there's a very big difference between asset price inflation,

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where people are excited and consumer price inflation where people are really feeling the

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pain. And so I feel like right now, specifically, just given everything that's going on, right,

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I think people had a lot of high expectations about Trump being able to lower inflation. But

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realistically, I think that, you know, there's a lot of things that are good that he is doing,

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right. And I'm not discounting any of that. But the reality is that he's really not going to be

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able to lower consumer prices back to where they were prior to, to all of this happening, right,

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he maybe he can kind of stifle the growth of inflation, but we're never going to have deflation,

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right, where all of a sudden your eggs are going to cost like $5 like they used to, right. And so

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like, we're now living in this new normal where people need to be aware of like, okay,

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there are direct effects to like fiat intervention that are going to really impact what happens to me

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and my family and what goes on my table and what I'm able to afford and what I'm able to do for my

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children and so forth, right. Because there's a trickle effect, right. If all of a sudden,

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people's grocery budgets explode and they're spending twice as much on groceries, like maybe

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now they're not sending their kids to basketball practice anymore, right? Maybe now they're not

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able to send their kids to a school that they otherwise would have chosen. Maybe they don't go

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on a vacation anymore, right? Like, or maybe they just rack up tons of debt because they don't know

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what else to do. And they're not really good at their, like, you know, managing their finances.

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So there's a lot of just different effects that happen to people as a result of fiat inflation.

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and that are really easy to pinpoint depending on who the person is and what you actually know about them.

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And I'm glad you brought up the Trump thing because you can just see that every time the metronome of left and right just flips back and forth,

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they're always pointing at, oh, the inflation is so bad because the bad man is there.

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We're going to fix it. We're going to bring down your inflation.

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And then it doesn't happen.

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And it just, you know, it may be the best that you can get is it slows down and how much worse it's getting.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And because they always use percentage numbers, they don't actually use like actual numbers for things.

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So like I love when people use the weight example because they'll be like, OK, if I weigh 200 pounds, right, I don't weigh 200 pounds, but imagine there's a person that weighs 200 pounds, right?

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OK, so if I gain 50 pounds, right now, 250 pounds, and then I tell you that growth has slowed, right?

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that still means I'm going from 250 and working my way to 300. That doesn't mean that I've all

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of a sudden lost weight. I'm back down to 200. Right. And so I feel like that like puts it into

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perspective for people when they're hearing things like, oh, well, inflation's at 8%, but now it's

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back down to 4%. It's like, okay, before it was growing at 8%, and now it's only growing at 4%,

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but it's still growing. Right. And so the reality is, is that things are still going to be more

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expensive, depending on your basket of goods. And so for some people, yeah, it might only be 4%,

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But for other people, depending on what they're actually spending money on, the things that people most want to spend money on in general are like because of the way that they do CPI in the basket of goods.

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They're not weighted in the in in the way that people actually can get any value out of.

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And so like you might end up having a personal inflation rate of 30 percent, depending on what you're spending money on, whereas somebody else might have a much lower inflation rate, depending on what their basket of goods looks like.

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And so that part of it is also really important.

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Like, for instance, like people in the Bitcoin community, I think, are hit pretty hard.

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Right. Meat prices went up quite a lot.

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If you're only eating meat and you're living in the Bitcoin community and like all of a sudden your grocery bill didn't probably like more than doubled.

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Right. And so it looks very different depending on like what people are spending their money on.

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Yeah, I'm glad you brought multiple points there that really highlight how inflation just lowers people's quality of life in so many areas.

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It sort of forces you or a lot of people, unless you're crazy like us Bitcoiners and you will only eat meat, you're just going to keep eating it, even if it's more expensive.

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It forces you to change your basket of goods to lower quality things and have a lower quality life.

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You get a worse place to live.

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You eat worse food.

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You decide not to have kids.

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You lower everything around you because it just gets harder to afford it.

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But it happens so slowly for most people.

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It currently happens slowly.

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It could take off any time here, I think.

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But even though we haven't hit that true hyperinflation yet, it's still just grinding lower and lower.

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And this is why we see this sort of frog in the boiling water situation where you can just look around and just tell that you can even just sense that people's mental health is declining every year.

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It's just people seem like they're struggling more and more.

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They're getting less and less quality inputs.

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Their health is deteriorating.

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And it's all really just comes down to fiat money.

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Would you agree that that pretty much is the root of the problem here?

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Yeah, I think so, honestly.

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And then, I mean, the other problem with it is that if the government is printing money, the government is basically deciding, OK, what we're spending money on is more important than what you are choosing to spend money on.

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Right. Like that's what the government is saying in and of itself.

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And so people need to internalize that.

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That's really hard for I think it's a lot easier of a sell now that like a lot of people just lost trust in the system after many, many years of being lied to and then ultimately ending with this inflationary bubble.

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Right. And so I think it's a lot easier of a sell to tell people this.

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But ultimately, that that is what the government is saying.

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They are saying, we know what's better for you and the country. And in order to do that, we think that you should just have higher prices at the grocery store because we know where the allocation of capital should be. And the reality is that we're all human beings, right? We all make mistakes. We're all fallible. And we don't actually know where money should be allocated, especially over a large group of people, right? The United States has many, many different groups of people doing many different groups, doing many different types of things all over the country. States in the north don't do what states in the south do. States in the east don't know what they're doing.

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story do the states in the West do whatever's going on in Alaska. I have no idea. You know,

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I haven't been there since I was 15. So you know what I mean? Like, we're all in this together. And

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yet, like, we're, we're this big mishmash of, of ideas and, and lifestyles and so forth. And so

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for the government to be able to, quote unquote, centrally plan that, I mean, and even to have the

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hubris to think that they can centrally plan that is just beyond me. It's hard enough, even for like,

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just a small family to be able to decide where to best allocate their capital level, let alone on

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the level of multiple, multiple families and so forth, and millions of people. And so, and I think

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that, you know, when we think about that as just families in general, right, what ends up happening

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is that we end up having to change on our side, where we would otherwise think would be a best

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allocation of capital. And like you said, yeah, people are making much poorer decisions as a

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result of that. And it's really affecting the next generation, like either, we've got people with

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mental health crises with children, right, where the children are now being affected by parents

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having mental health crises and so forth. And that's being passed down. And the kids have anxiety,

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the kids have depression, the kids have all sorts of issues. Lots of kids are on medication as a

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result of this, or vice versa. Parents are just not having kids because they can't afford to have

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them. Right. And so like the next generation is really, really vulnerable. And like, it pains me,

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right? I mean, I'm a mom of three kids, like, thank God, we're not affected by this, right?

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We live in kind of a bubble, like a Bitcoin bubble. But the more that like something like

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Bitcoin can permeate the system where people see that they can opt out from this and that they have

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another way, right? The more that we can get back to making like really good nuclear family decisions.

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I love that. There are a bunch of pieces there I want to touch on later, especially just the family

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component and how Bitcoin insulates you from a lot of this stuff. That's definitely important. But

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I'd love to bring in just the Austrian economic side, because you were talking about how

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central planning and the hubris of the government to say, oh, we're going to plan all of this and

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we're going to have these banks that decide what the price of money is, what the inflation is,

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what the cost of everything is. And we go through, or at least I don't know if you did, I went through

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the traditional government schooling system and was taught that central banking is good for us

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because we need them to take care of us and have the guardrails so prevent the booms and busts.

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And 2% inflation is a perfect number because we said so.

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Yeah, yeah. I heard all that too, don't worry. And I even went to private school.

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Yeah. So where does the Austrian School of Economics come in? You definitely have a much deeper understanding of this school of thought than I do. And I'd love to just hear how you present that as the solution and what the big ideas are from these big Austrian economists like Rothbard, you know, like, you know, Mises and all these other big names we've heard in the Bitcoin circles. How do they present the solution to this through Austrian economics? And what is it?

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Yeah so I actually I love this question because I not sure actually if the solution is really the solution I think we going to get to see if it is a solution So a lot of the solution that Austrian economists tend to propose is an insurance solution

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And so it's not the way that we see insurance today, right?

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When we look at insurance, I think of it as a giant scam, especially health insurance, where I'm just like, it's very corrupt, right?

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And there's a lot of issues.

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Just the business model of it.

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Like you're supposed to pay these people a bunch of money every month and like they get to decide if your health event is worth it or not.

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And they usually say, no, you know, here's this, you know, little fine print, like in our 300 page novel of like all the things that don't count.

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It's just like, what?

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Yeah, totally.

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So I guess because we kind of have that backdrop of insurance, when I read the Austrian economists who say basically that in a private society where you basically don't have government or you have limited government that's basically just protecting the people and providing a court system for people to actually adjudicate any kind of issues that come up.

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Right. And so like these things obviously are very important. But then outside of that system would be basically a system of insurance to basically through those adjudications and through legislation, not legislation, but through basically people suing each other, that insurance companies would then step in and help with some of the costs of what would happen as a result.

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And so people will basically, instead of paying tax dollars, would end up paying like probably pretty large premiums to insurance companies.

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But the idea would be that there would be a net benefit to society because there would be less going to insurance companies.

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Insurance companies actually wouldn't be central planning, right?

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They would only be basically taking that capital and then managing that risk based on the needs of the population rather than it being like the insurance company is now deciding, okay, there's a new law.

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And now we've created a new entity and now we're going to fund that new entity.

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And then that entity is going to have, you know, like the USAID style, whatever they're going to do with this, you know, corrupt money.

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And so I think that like it could obviously devolve into that depending on how the society is set up and so forth and what the insurance companies actually do with the money or so forth.

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There probably be in this, you know, utopian anarcho capitalist society.

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There would be like certain insurance companies would probably be known for bad practices versus others.

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And the idea would be that the free market would basically determine what insurance companies stay in business versus which ones wouldn't. And so I think it would be a different system relative to what we see today, but I don't know necessarily if it would be a perfect system either.

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um and so but but that is often what is brought up i do think that there's a lot of issues with

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the insurance system as it currently stands and that there's a lot that could be fixed but there's

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also like i think when we think about bitcoiners we often want to throw out all the bath water but

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like you also don't want to throw the baby out you know and like bitcoiners just want to take

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everything out of the bath and some of this stuff is actually good um and so i think like in in a new

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bitcoin world right we have to be sort of more discerning about okay what parts of the financial

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system and the government and so forth are actually good things that need to continue and be sustained

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versus what are like the parts that are totally just rotten, corrupt and broken and that need to

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be removed? That's a very interesting answer. I would have had a very different one. And I've

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never really even thought about that insurance side, like how that would change things.

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The place that I would start when I talk to people is just like the sound money angle,

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because that's very big in these Austrian circles.

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And I can't remember, I should notice,

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was it Mises or someone else who had talked about

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the sly roundabout way that we must, you know,

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find a sound form of money that can't be printed, basically.

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And to me, everyone in the libertarian

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and anarcho-capitalist and Austrian economic school

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all pretty much agree we need to get rid of the Federal Reserve

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and have a sound form of money.

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And a lot of, you can see by age, basically,

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If they're over 40 or 50 years old, they usually say gold.

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And if they're under that age, they say Bitcoin.

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And so we have Bitcoin and gold as these two options for sound money.

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They would essentially come in and disrupt the system that really just comes down to the central banking and the money printers.

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So how would you take that sort of angle?

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How does inserting a form of money that cannot be printed into this equation, how does that affect all of those, the inflation and the other aspects we talked about?

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yeah so i mean if you have a sound money right it's and you can't print it then you can't all

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of a sudden have these pet projects um that you can put money towards because you have a limited

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supply of money and so like the government in and of itself would have to be more choosy about what

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they did and didn't send like basically fund and if they have to be more choosy right then at that

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point either they continue to fund pet projects that are ridiculous and useless and they run out

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of money right or they take some sort of um fiduciary aspect to this money because it is the

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money of the government, the government money is the money of the American people, right? It's not

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really their money. And so they should have more of an attitude about it the way I would say we

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have an attitude about like how we help our clients with their money is that we have fiduciary

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standard, and we act in the best interest of the client, right? And in this case, the government

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would have to act in the best interest of the American people, because the American people is

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the client. And so I think it would change how, how government actors acted for sure. I mean,

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there's no way otherwise they would just the government itself will go bankrupt at which case

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i think that that's like the the that's the utopia i'm talking about utopia quote unquote

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that i'm talking about the libertarian scenario is like there's no more government what happens

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next um and so under with sound money right that's when the um the insurance there would be like the

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rise of insurance is is kind of what the austrian economists have talked about is that after the

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government basically goes bankrupt as a result of not actually being able to properly manage their

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money. This is what replaces it. Interesting. Yeah. And it's, it's gonna be fascinating to see

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how this turns out. Because I think you and I both agree that Bitcoin is common, whether people

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want it to or not, because it's time has come, you know, people are realizing that fiat money is

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a problem. We have a solution there. And I do love to give people the backdrop of gold. And you

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mentioned that you used to be a gold bug. I wouldn't say I was ever really a gold bug. But

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gold education was what really brought me into Bitcoin. And I've told this story on a podcast

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before where, you know, I spent a few years in crypto, like most idiots do from 2017 to 2020.

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And I stumbled across Mike Maloney's YouTube channel, who's a well known gold bug out there.

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And he basically helped me figure out that the problem is the fiat currency.

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And so that helped me bridge the gap of finally understanding, okay, Bitcoin really is the thing

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we need to focus all these crypto tokens are not going to actually fix any problems.

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We have to focus on Bitcoin here.

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Totally.

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So how do you talk to people about gold and Bitcoin as these two, like the sort of the

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historical best sound money and the future of sound money and how people decide which

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of those two would be best to put their portfolio?

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Yeah, for sure.

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I mean, I have some clients that have gold, but the reality is, is that most of my clients

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were Bitcoin only.

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We don't have gold.

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I actually don't think of gold really the way I used to because Bitcoin, I think, is

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just such a like far superior replacement to it that it just doesn't seem even a question in my

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mind why you would want to hold gold over Bitcoin for sure, or even why you would want to allocate

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side by side, right? If you're allocating side by side, what you're doing is you're basically

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choosing to not put money in Bitcoin to have some money in gold. And generally people are doing that

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because they're not all in, right? They're like, okay, just in case this Bitcoin thing doesn't work

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out, I want to at least have this other store of value gold. There are a lot of issues though with

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gold, right? Like gold is not divisible the way that Bitcoin is, right? Bitcoin is highly divisible.

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Gold, what has happened, right? And the result of why we're even in the state that we're in with

372
00:30:40,024 --> 00:30:43,684
fiat currency is because they stored all the gold in one place because it's really inconvenient to

373
00:30:43,684 --> 00:30:47,624
move around. And then they just started borrowing against it, right? And there are even gold bugs

374
00:30:47,624 --> 00:30:52,764
out there that say that that is their strategy. They have gold, they store it in a central location.

375
00:30:53,284 --> 00:30:56,564
They don't know whether or not they actually have the gold there, right? They would have to like

376
00:30:56,564 --> 00:31:01,344
basically melt all the gold bars to actually check whether or not each single gold bar that they owned

377
00:31:01,344 --> 00:31:06,564
was actual gold rather than, you know, some nickel or something else in the middle and just paint it,

378
00:31:06,645 --> 00:31:11,384
right, or had gold coating on it. And so, right, there's a lot of issues with like, I guess,

379
00:31:11,465 --> 00:31:15,424
verifying whether or not the currency you have there is actually the currency, right? And then

380
00:31:15,424 --> 00:31:18,864
borrowing against it because it's too annoying to move and actually you can't pay for anything

381
00:31:18,864 --> 00:31:22,804
in gold, which is the opposite of Bitcoin, right? The Bitcoin is something that, you know,

382
00:31:22,804 --> 00:31:27,485
ultimately is usable. It's not just a store of value, right? It's also a unit of account and a

383
00:31:27,485 --> 00:31:31,745
medium of exchange. And so while you can say currently that Bitcoin, you know, it's not

384
00:31:31,745 --> 00:31:36,764
widely accepted and it's not something that, you know, I can really use. Yeah, that's all fair.

385
00:31:36,764 --> 00:31:43,104
And that's true right now. That's not necessarily true though, you know, five or 10 years from now,

386
00:31:43,145 --> 00:31:49,104
and certainly not going to be the case in 30 years from now. So, you know, and somebody can

387
00:31:49,104 --> 00:31:53,564
call me in 30 years if they if I'm wrong and I'm happy to say okay I'm sorry I got the timing wrong

388
00:31:53,564 --> 00:31:59,145
um you know so but like gold it's already proven that it doesn't work because like we would

389
00:31:59,145 --> 00:32:03,804
otherwise still be on the gold standard but in 1971 we went off because it's so easy to go off

390
00:32:03,804 --> 00:32:08,784
right and so even these centrally housed gold places where people like you and me can go and

391
00:32:08,784 --> 00:32:12,524
store gold or whatever we have no way of knowing if they're rehypothecating or what they're doing

392
00:32:12,524 --> 00:32:16,624
or if they have the gold um and so people are often saying that about okay I if I store my

393
00:32:16,624 --> 00:32:21,504
Bitcoin on an exchange, right? We, we tell people not to do that, right? Take control of your keys,

394
00:32:21,624 --> 00:32:25,264
hold your own keys, not your keys, not your Bitcoin, right? We have all these tropes and

395
00:32:25,264 --> 00:32:29,465
memes and things because these things are true. If you're not sitting on the gold in your house,

396
00:32:29,465 --> 00:32:33,145
which is wildly inconvenient, then how do you know if you didn't have it? And it's the same

397
00:32:33,145 --> 00:32:36,084
thing with Bitcoin, right? We would never recommend that somebody store it on an exchange.

398
00:32:36,925 --> 00:32:40,965
Or if they're going to store some on an exchange, have it be just a materially on like an

399
00:32:40,965 --> 00:32:44,344
unmaterial amount relative to your net worth and everything else that you have going on because you

400
00:32:44,344 --> 00:32:48,284
you're like ready to move it or trade it or whatever so i just think that these are just

401
00:32:48,284 --> 00:32:54,384
tried and true uh principles if you look back in time that it can't be the future um and if people

402
00:32:54,384 --> 00:32:57,324
are willing to have that conversation and they would see that it was true right and that kind

403
00:32:57,324 --> 00:33:00,905
of goes back to what we were talking about earlier which is is somebody's mind open to having this

404
00:33:00,905 --> 00:33:04,344
discussion or not because if they're not then whatever they're going to be stay in their gold

405
00:33:04,344 --> 00:33:09,905
lane yeah it's quite interesting to look at the history of gold because it did so well for

406
00:33:09,905 --> 00:33:15,745
thousands of years but it just had those those weaknesses or the vulnerabilities that finally

407
00:33:15,745 --> 00:33:19,905
caught up to it and it really just came down to like you said the exchange to the storage

408
00:33:19,905 --> 00:33:27,665
piece where you know it is it's just a you know big hunky metal rock at the end of the day and it

409
00:33:27,665 --> 00:33:32,264
becomes difficult to verify it and use it for money and you know buy things with it if you have

410
00:33:32,264 --> 00:33:38,925
to carry the stuff around it's annoying and bitcoin comes in and it i know some bitcoiners

411
00:33:38,925 --> 00:33:44,745
hate that you know this this phrasing is used but digital gold and the bitcoiners was like oh it's

412
00:33:44,745 --> 00:33:48,165
so much more than that has all these different things but i like the digital gold framing

413
00:33:48,165 --> 00:33:53,445
because i think gold is really awesome and there's a reason why it works so well for so long but

414
00:33:53,445 --> 00:33:58,504
uh bitcoin just upgrades it in a way and it takes those weaknesses and it makes it better

415
00:33:58,504 --> 00:34:03,665
and i'm curious if you also are you a fan of the digital gold phrasing when you're helping people

416
00:34:03,665 --> 00:34:08,764
understand why bitcoin is like gold but even more awesome yeah definitely i think again it goes back

417
00:34:08,764 --> 00:34:12,264
to like who I'm talking to and what would resonate with them, right? Because ultimately,

418
00:34:12,804 --> 00:34:17,304
everyone should own Bitcoin, right? What percentage that they own Bitcoin is going to be very,

419
00:34:17,304 --> 00:34:21,444
you know, independent and relative to their personal situation, their needs, their objectives,

420
00:34:21,764 --> 00:34:25,484
their time horizon, right? Like what their family looks like, all the things, right? So,

421
00:34:25,865 --> 00:34:29,845
but at the end of the day, right, everyone can own $5 worth of Bitcoin, right? It's really easy to go

422
00:34:29,845 --> 00:34:47,857
and buy you know a minimal amount or or whatever it is and hold it in some sort of even on a on a wallet right even on a hot wallet on your phone you can hold your ten dollars so I think like you know when we starting there it like okay how do we get people off zero What the tagline that going to resonate with them What the what the narrative that going

423
00:34:47,857 --> 00:34:52,277
to best help them be where they need to be? And I agree with you, right? For many years, there

424
00:34:52,277 --> 00:34:56,817
wasn't any alternative, right? Gold was the way and people obviously use silver as well as you know,

425
00:34:56,857 --> 00:35:01,257
medium exchange, because it's cheaper and you know, like easier to trade around and so forth.

426
00:35:01,257 --> 00:35:20,597
So like, you know, gold had its silver and so forth. But it doesn't necessarily mean that just because something's around for a long time, right? A history doesn't necessarily mean that it has a future. And so right, there has to be other reasons why that that future sustains. And it's really obvious to me that Bitcoin's future is much brighter than gold's.

427
00:35:20,597 --> 00:35:26,197
and one of the things that you talked about there you brought up a couple times this idea of

428
00:35:26,197 --> 00:35:33,337
diversification and you know i i'm curious to hear how your thoughts on diversification which

429
00:35:33,337 --> 00:35:37,817
is the most classic you know number one rule of personal finance is oh you you need to be

430
00:35:37,817 --> 00:35:41,637
diversified you need to have a little bit of this and a little bit of that and a little bit of this

431
00:35:41,637 --> 00:35:46,237
and it's funny we hear that in a lot of different places i on this podcast i go into the diet realm

432
00:35:46,237 --> 00:35:49,697
to like food and they say the same thing oh you have a little bit of everything in moderation

433
00:35:49,697 --> 00:35:55,657
And this is kind of just this traditional advice is given out, but it doesn't really seem to be the best option.

434
00:35:56,157 --> 00:35:59,877
How has Bitcoin changed your thoughts on diversification when you're talking to clients?

435
00:36:00,857 --> 00:36:01,997
Yeah, I just love that question.

436
00:36:03,337 --> 00:36:07,917
So if you had asked me five years ago, I would have given you a different answer.

437
00:36:08,257 --> 00:36:10,797
I would have probably still been in diversification camp.

438
00:36:12,017 --> 00:36:14,957
I don't see Bitcoin as an investment.

439
00:36:15,297 --> 00:36:17,417
So I think that's like the place to start.

440
00:36:17,517 --> 00:36:19,297
So to me, Bitcoin is holding money.

441
00:36:19,297 --> 00:36:36,077
So if you're holding money, then it's not actually part of an asset allocation. What it is is a currency allocation. So this sort of turns things on their head, right? Because like the average financial advisor, myself included, when we get an investment portfolio, yes, it does make sense to have a diversified investment portfolio.

442
00:36:36,077 --> 00:36:52,597
Okay, there's a lot of risks that go into both holding stocks and bonds or alternative investments or whatever it is. And in order to diversify away those risks and make sure that you don't lose everything that you have, right, you need to, to spread the risk. Essentially, that's what diversification is.

443
00:36:52,597 --> 00:36:58,677
that said right before you even make investments you have currency right you either have fiat or

444
00:36:58,677 --> 00:37:04,617
you have a choice of bitcoin or i guess if you wanted to put it into some sort of terrible other

445
00:37:04,617 --> 00:37:09,197
currency that's your choice i wouldn't even call those currencies but i guess you know some people

446
00:37:09,197 --> 00:37:14,657
like to do things like that and that's you know their own thing um so okay so fiat or bitcoin

447
00:37:14,657 --> 00:37:18,677
right now you're deciding okay how much fiat do i need to have how much bitcoin do i need to have

448
00:37:18,677 --> 00:37:22,957
And how much investment do I also want to have? Right. It's a very different conversation.

449
00:37:23,657 --> 00:37:34,517
I think that this is very going to be very difficult for regulators to understand because we're not quite there yet because they still see Bitcoin as an investment, even though it's been deemed as a commodity by both the SEC and then also by the CFTC.

450
00:37:35,297 --> 00:37:41,197
So like it's we're in this weird place where it's called a commodity. It's not a commodity. It is a currency. Right.

451
00:37:41,197 --> 00:37:46,797
And we're like from an asset allocation standpoint, it's above the asset allocation, right?

452
00:37:46,797 --> 00:37:52,957
Like I have people who come in who before we were even doing anything in Bitcoin, we were deciding how much cash, how much investment, right?

453
00:37:53,057 --> 00:37:56,997
And so when we're thinking about that, then it's like, okay, how much cash do I want to hold?

454
00:37:57,237 --> 00:37:59,877
How much long-term cash do I need and how much short-term cash do I need?

455
00:37:59,937 --> 00:38:02,537
And then from there, do I actually need to have a bucket of investments?

456
00:38:02,777 --> 00:38:07,757
And so for a lot of, for most people, right, they're just going to need to have long-term cash and short-term cash.

457
00:38:07,757 --> 00:38:13,237
For some people, they're going to have maybe much more long term cash and not very much short term cash.

458
00:38:13,337 --> 00:38:17,197
Right. And maybe they want something else in the middle because they just want to feel diversified.

459
00:38:17,297 --> 00:38:26,497
Right. Or they have some midterm goals that don't necessarily align with long term cash and short term cash, in which case we might be able to build some sort of portfolio in the middle.

460
00:38:26,837 --> 00:38:28,237
That's kind of how I'm thinking about it now.

461
00:38:28,497 --> 00:38:32,117
And so I don't know if that necessarily answers your question about what the perfect portfolio is.

462
00:38:32,117 --> 00:38:38,437
But for most people, it's going to be emergency reserve in fiat and then Bitcoin basically for the rest.

463
00:38:38,537 --> 00:38:41,137
And then they can decide whether or not from there they actually want to make investments.

464
00:38:43,057 --> 00:38:43,837
Yeah, definitely.

465
00:38:43,997 --> 00:38:50,577
And I would say another classic phrase that we love to use and you use as well is that you just need to get off zero Bitcoin.

466
00:38:51,437 --> 00:38:59,277
And this sort of, as you talked about earlier in your story, how you're the type of person that just needs to get your feet wet and very gradually go into this thing.

467
00:38:59,737 --> 00:39:01,297
And I think that most people are the same.

468
00:39:01,297 --> 00:39:05,957
Most people are not crazy people like me who just go all in on Bitcoin like crazy once you finally get it.

469
00:39:06,557 --> 00:39:07,817
And a lot of Bitcoiners do that.

470
00:39:07,937 --> 00:39:13,837
We're very famous for doing things such as selling our chairs so you can buy more Bitcoin and selling your house so you can buy more Bitcoin.

471
00:39:14,277 --> 00:39:18,357
These are all the memes that we love because it's just all about getting more and more Bitcoin, more Bitcoin.

472
00:39:19,057 --> 00:39:25,117
But for the people who are just getting started, talk about why it's so important to get off zero Bitcoin.

473
00:39:25,117 --> 00:39:30,997
And like you said, even just buy $5, $10, some small fraction just to get started.

474
00:39:30,997 --> 00:39:33,557
How does that mentally change someone?

475
00:39:33,657 --> 00:39:37,597
How does it financially shift them in a direction toward having a better form of money?

476
00:39:38,357 --> 00:39:38,937
Yeah, definitely.

477
00:39:39,177 --> 00:39:40,557
So I'll give you an example.

478
00:39:41,137 --> 00:39:42,617
I think that that best represents.

479
00:39:42,617 --> 00:39:46,357
In 2020, so my business started in 2014.

480
00:39:47,357 --> 00:39:49,757
I started talking to people about Bitcoin in 2016.

481
00:39:50,237 --> 00:39:54,157
I spent from 2016, I was just sort of waiting for people to have questions about it because

482
00:39:54,157 --> 00:39:57,657
it was the regulatory environment was very unclear about what I could and couldn't say.

483
00:39:57,657 --> 00:40:01,577
So I didn't feel comfortable soliciting it as an, as like an investment quote unquote,

484
00:40:01,757 --> 00:40:01,917
right.

485
00:40:01,977 --> 00:40:05,937
It just was, it was kind of a no go with my compliance department that I have.

486
00:40:06,057 --> 00:40:11,037
And so, but if somebody came and had questions, then all of a sudden it was unsolicited, right.

487
00:40:11,097 --> 00:40:12,277
And I can say whatever I wanted.

488
00:40:12,437 --> 00:40:16,757
And so, and people did start to have questions in 2016, they had questions in 2017 with the

489
00:40:16,757 --> 00:40:17,817
run-up, they had more questions.

490
00:40:17,817 --> 00:40:21,817
And in 2018, I got a lot of questions because they were like, well, it went up and went down.

491
00:40:21,837 --> 00:40:23,037
Like, should I be buying this thing?

492
00:40:23,057 --> 00:40:23,877
Like what's going on?

493
00:40:23,917 --> 00:40:25,677
Some people were saying, should I own gold?

494
00:40:25,677 --> 00:40:29,037
whenever anyone started bringing up gold i'd be like well you've heard about this thing called

495
00:40:29,037 --> 00:40:35,017
bitcoin and so from i would say from 2017 through 2019 i was fielding a lot of questions and i was

496
00:40:35,017 --> 00:40:39,417
trying to get people involved um and ultimately trying to do it in a way where if they brought up

497
00:40:39,417 --> 00:40:45,057
anything tangential where i would just be like oh you know you're bringing about this thing like

498
00:40:45,057 --> 00:40:48,717
let's talk about bitcoin you know and so and it worked like we got a lot of clients involved

499
00:40:48,717 --> 00:40:54,557
in 2020 though at at one point when i was like we we were i was not able to basically get everybody

500
00:40:54,557 --> 00:40:58,017
involved we just had a blanket statement of okay if we can't get people to buy their own bitcoin

501
00:40:58,017 --> 00:41:03,917
this year we give them a one to three percent allocation to gbtc just based on net worth risk

502
00:41:03,917 --> 00:41:09,397
tolerance all the things um like and looking at their specific situation and people with very low

503
00:41:09,397 --> 00:41:12,457
risk tolerances putting them at one percent and people with higher risk tolerances putting them

504
00:41:12,457 --> 00:41:16,557
in three percent which now looking back on it you know it's like obviously i should have taken

505
00:41:16,557 --> 00:41:19,517
larger positions but at the time right being conservative because i'm a financial planner

506
00:41:19,517 --> 00:41:26,137
we had a lot of people get very excited though in 2020 um the timing actually worked out like we

507
00:41:26,137 --> 00:41:30,057
hit it before like the run-up that ended up happening people were excited and then all of

508
00:41:30,057 --> 00:41:35,117
a sudden these people who had these had no interest at all were all of a sudden asking about buying

509
00:41:35,117 --> 00:41:39,677
bitcoin outright right they weren't caring about adding to gbtc they wanted to know how they could

510
00:41:39,677 --> 00:41:43,997
own bitcoin um and so we had a lot of clients at that point where we got them set up a multi-sig

511
00:41:43,997 --> 00:41:48,737
and harvard waltz and like getting them into like they opened up accounts on exchanges and we walked

512
00:41:48,737 --> 00:41:51,817
them through how to move in. We walked them through test transactions, right? There was a lot

513
00:41:51,817 --> 00:41:56,677
of things that were able to occur just because they had that, you know, thousand dollar position

514
00:41:56,677 --> 00:42:00,697
in their account or whatever it is. Right. And so I guess that's why I'm saying is like, I've seen

515
00:42:00,697 --> 00:42:05,657
it work firsthand that if people get involved, that it's a reason why we call it number go up

516
00:42:05,657 --> 00:42:09,457
technology, right? People get very excited when the number goes up, right? And then all of a sudden

517
00:42:09,457 --> 00:42:13,877
they get a lot more interested. I think the stakes are a lot higher now, right? Because of where

518
00:42:13,877 --> 00:42:17,357
Bitcoin's prices and where we are and so forth that like, it feels a lot more urgent to get people

519
00:42:17,357 --> 00:42:21,377
involved because it still feels early and it doesn't feel like it's exploded yet. And so for

520
00:42:21,377 --> 00:42:24,997
people like me who take three years to like get their head around things, like maybe they don't

521
00:42:24,997 --> 00:42:28,657
have three years, maybe you have to somehow accelerate it into six months or whatever it is.

522
00:42:29,317 --> 00:42:34,537
But getting people involved does work. And of all my clients, I only had one client say,

523
00:42:34,677 --> 00:42:38,837
I don't want this, sell this out of my portfolio. So I mean, that's really saying something that

524
00:42:38,837 --> 00:42:43,017
people, they want the alternative, right? I kind of like to compare, I don't know if you're

525
00:42:43,017 --> 00:42:48,597
religious or not um but i i'm a believer in our creator and i it's the same thing i hear when

526
00:42:48,597 --> 00:42:53,657
people read the holy books right they are just starving for the information whether they like

527
00:42:53,657 --> 00:42:58,477
it whether they even know it or not um you give somebody one verse and all of a sudden they're

528
00:42:58,477 --> 00:43:02,057
like i want to hear more like what is this you know even if they don't care at all all of a

529
00:43:02,057 --> 00:43:05,397
sudden it's like we're starving for it and i feel like bitcoin is the same thing like people don't

530
00:43:05,397 --> 00:43:08,737
know that they need it or want it but all of a sudden when they get a little bit of it they're

531
00:43:08,737 --> 00:43:13,957
like they need to know more they want to be more involved yeah once you get that taste of it just

532
00:43:13,957 --> 00:43:21,537
it taps into something deep in your soul that that you you need this thing this it it work it goes

533
00:43:21,537 --> 00:43:26,557
along with nature and what we're like meant to do and how we're meant to live our lives and there's a

534
00:43:26,557 --> 00:43:31,197
super awesome movie and book i haven't actually watched or read them yet but thank god for bitcoin

535
00:43:31,197 --> 00:43:35,697
i'm sure you've heard of that and that is uh just an awesome project that really helps all these

536
00:43:35,697 --> 00:43:41,257
folks who are on that side of things like understand like bitcoin is the money that god

537
00:43:41,257 --> 00:43:48,777
would want us to have you know it goes along with all that um i'd love to talk about strategies for

538
00:43:48,777 --> 00:43:53,897
getting started and i know that there are people listening right now that i'm sure have heard me

539
00:43:53,897 --> 00:43:58,097
ranting and raving about bitcoin for a long time but now they get to hear a smart person talk about

540
00:43:58,097 --> 00:44:04,657
it they might be ready for it so what are your thoughts on let's just start with this actually

541
00:44:04,657 --> 00:44:11,657
when someone says okay i'm ready i'm convinced bitcoin let's do it how do i get started what do

542
00:44:11,657 --> 00:44:17,057
you tell them as the next steps for buying it storing it and sort of the quick start guide that

543
00:44:17,057 --> 00:44:22,337
you give them yeah definitely so we typically send um people to an exchange like river just because

544
00:44:22,337 --> 00:44:27,657
bitcoin only um right swan would be another choice um it depends on what state they're in obviously

545
00:44:27,657 --> 00:44:31,357
or like i have clients in new york in which case it's just a no-go and they have to go to coinbase

546
00:44:31,357 --> 00:44:32,997
and that's just the way that it is, right?

547
00:44:33,117 --> 00:44:35,777
We typically do try to send them to a Bitcoin-only exchange,

548
00:44:35,917 --> 00:44:38,517
not because we don't think that they're going to go and buy Bitcoin, right?

549
00:44:38,517 --> 00:44:41,457
But just because, like, the interface is much easier to use

550
00:44:41,457 --> 00:44:43,617
and there's only one option of what you're purchasing, right?

551
00:44:44,537 --> 00:44:47,617
And not that there's, like, trust, but there's just a level,

552
00:44:47,757 --> 00:44:49,757
there's a little more level of trust of, like, okay,

553
00:44:50,037 --> 00:44:52,997
for as long as my Bitcoin, like, my fiat and my Bitcoin are going to be here,

554
00:44:53,077 --> 00:44:55,597
like, it's probably going to be fine until I actually take self-custody.

555
00:44:56,177 --> 00:44:58,717
From there, then we talk about, like, custody solutions.

556
00:44:58,717 --> 00:45:01,877
So for some people, right, it's single Sega is going to be just fine.

557
00:45:01,917 --> 00:45:07,777
Depends on how much they have and how comfortable they are with storing both the seed plate and the hardware wallet.

558
00:45:07,897 --> 00:45:12,217
And we also discuss which hardware wallets and what would be appropriate, right, because there's a wide variety of them.

559
00:45:12,257 --> 00:45:17,057
And some are more user friendly and some are less, but they're air gapped, like the cold card and so forth.

560
00:45:17,157 --> 00:45:21,117
And so I would say for most people starting out, cold card is probably not the way to go.

561
00:45:21,177 --> 00:45:24,537
It doesn't necessarily mean that you don't change how you hold things in the future.

562
00:45:24,537 --> 00:45:28,537
But maybe if you're just starting out and you're not technologically savvy, that's not the right place to start.

563
00:45:28,537 --> 00:45:31,957
you're more likely to lose your Bitcoin than you are. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like we're

564
00:45:31,957 --> 00:45:36,917
always trying to plan for all like the, you know, the, the offshoot things like a wrench attack or

565
00:45:36,917 --> 00:45:40,297
something like that. And it's like for the average person who's just going to go buy like $20,000

566
00:45:40,297 --> 00:45:44,177
worth of Bitcoin, right? Like, I mean, at the end of the day, it's more important that they figure

567
00:45:44,177 --> 00:45:48,537
out a way to store it where they feel comfortable and confident. And then from there, learn about all

568
00:45:48,537 --> 00:45:52,397
the other options rather than going right off the bat with like, you know, the most complicated

569
00:45:52,397 --> 00:45:57,917
storage that they can come up with. So we're just gently guiding people in the direction where it

570
00:45:57,917 --> 00:46:00,457
makes sense for them personally to feel comfortable and confident.

571
00:46:00,457 --> 00:46:03,517
Because at the end of the day, right, if you don't feel confident in how you're storing

572
00:46:03,517 --> 00:46:06,857
Bitcoin, you're much more likely to actually sell it, not because you don't believe in

573
00:46:06,857 --> 00:46:08,677
it, but just because you're like, well, I'm going to lose it anyway.

574
00:46:08,837 --> 00:46:11,877
So I might as well keep it on an exchange or sell it or do whatever it is I'm going to

575
00:46:11,877 --> 00:46:12,037
do.

576
00:46:12,689 --> 00:46:20,989
From there, it's like, okay, then we direct either multi-sig or there's other options like on-ramp where people can have a multi-institutional, depending on how much money they have.

577
00:46:21,289 --> 00:46:26,829
I would say for most people, though, we're probably trying to get them into single-sig and multi-sig just to start, depending on how much it is.

578
00:46:27,009 --> 00:46:32,749
And then once we get into these higher numbers of hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, then we start talking.

579
00:46:32,969 --> 00:46:40,729
If they really are feeling uncomfortable with holding that in their home or wherever they're storing it, then we really need to start discussing about what other options are available for somebody like that.

580
00:46:40,729 --> 00:46:45,289
um so i hope that gives you kind of an overview of where we're yeah could you elaborate just

581
00:46:45,289 --> 00:46:49,369
slightly more on like the single stick and multi-stick what does that mean for people

582
00:46:49,369 --> 00:46:56,609
wondering like how it actually works um yeah so for people who like basically i would say single

583
00:46:56,609 --> 00:47:01,489
stick is like the easiest thing to do right like i think that people often think like okay well um

584
00:47:01,489 --> 00:47:05,549
it's you know there's a single point of failure right so obviously like maybe i don't necessarily

585
00:47:05,549 --> 00:47:10,229
want to store everything here or store everything eternally here um but for most people that's going

586
00:47:10,229 --> 00:47:14,509
be the easiest thing is you get one hardware wallet, right? You buy an exchange, and you move

587
00:47:14,509 --> 00:47:17,769
it to that hardware wallet. For some people, they're also going to run their node, right? If

588
00:47:17,769 --> 00:47:20,869
they have a cold card and so forth, right? That's a little bit more advanced. But for the average

589
00:47:20,869 --> 00:47:24,249
person, right? If you get a Trezor, and you go buy Bitcoin, and you move it onto your single sig,

590
00:47:24,669 --> 00:47:29,389
then all you have to do is worry about finding a good storage place for your hardware wallet and

591
00:47:29,389 --> 00:47:33,069
finding a good storage place for your seed plate. And we always recommend that people store the seed

592
00:47:33,069 --> 00:47:39,769
plate in metal if they can. We've had some other interesting seed plate discussions where people

593
00:47:39,769 --> 00:47:43,649
didn't want to do the metal because they didn't they didn't think that it was as secure as let's

594
00:47:43,649 --> 00:47:49,189
say like other ideas that they have come up with so i think you could also be creative in how you

595
00:47:49,189 --> 00:47:53,849
store your seed as long as you're not like putting it on the cloud you know we don't tell people to

596
00:47:53,849 --> 00:47:58,329
do that obviously but it doesn't necessarily have to be metal if you've found some other interesting

597
00:47:58,329 --> 00:48:02,229
way of storing it i would say for most people it's just going to be the hardware wallet and

598
00:48:02,229 --> 00:48:05,629
the seed plate and we typically tell we always tell people with single say that you store them

599
00:48:05,629 --> 00:48:10,409
separately right because if you store that seed plate with the hardware wallet right then if it's

600
00:48:10,409 --> 00:48:15,289
found then everything's done um whereas if you're storing them separately at least there's like some

601
00:48:15,289 --> 00:48:19,629
steps that somebody has to take if they find the seed plate to actually get your bitcoin um and with

602
00:48:19,629 --> 00:48:22,929
the hardware wallet right they have to have the pin and so forth and usually people do engrave

603
00:48:22,929 --> 00:48:28,449
their pin on their seed um seed cards so that they don't forget it so there's like a lot of reasons

604
00:48:28,449 --> 00:48:31,889
why you wouldn't want to store those things together for a lot of people though finding two

605
00:48:31,889 --> 00:48:36,589
places is very difficult. And so we often hear of people storing these things together, or they're

606
00:48:36,589 --> 00:48:40,329
not sure how often they have to check them. And then they store them in even worse spot because

607
00:48:40,329 --> 00:48:44,289
they're like, okay, well, I was told I have to check this thing quarterly. So I might as well

608
00:48:44,289 --> 00:48:48,189
just keep it in my desk drawer because I have to keep checking it. And we're like, no, no, no. I

609
00:48:48,189 --> 00:48:54,069
like, just put it away, you know? So, um, so yeah. So, and then like finding a trusted person,

610
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:57,069
if you want to store it in a separate location, but it's at your friend's house, can I actually

611
00:48:57,069 --> 00:49:00,229
store my seed with them? Right. There's all these things that come up when people start storing

612
00:49:00,229 --> 00:49:05,949
stuff so i think that like the future of this is actually how to help people store this in a way

613
00:49:05,949 --> 00:49:10,169
that that makes people feel secure because ultimately single sig is the easiest right

614
00:49:10,169 --> 00:49:14,349
from there though if single sig for a reason is not working for somebody that's when we step it up

615
00:49:14,349 --> 00:49:17,889
to multi-sig and you know the thing that's nice about multi-sig obviously is that if you lose one

616
00:49:17,889 --> 00:49:21,489
hardware wallet or something malfunctions right you still have the two others where you can still

617
00:49:21,489 --> 00:49:24,909
make a transaction you don't lose your bitcoin whereas if you accidentally throw your hardware

618
00:49:24,909 --> 00:49:28,409
wallet in the trash can then you don't want to be like going through the staten island dump with

619
00:49:28,409 --> 00:49:34,549
your little metal detector trying to find it yeah and just as an example for anyone that wants to go

620
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:40,709
learn more about multi-sig i know that in austin their unchained capital is a big one yeah um and

621
00:49:40,709 --> 00:49:45,769
plenty of other options out there too casa i know is another one but these are basically ways to just

622
00:49:45,769 --> 00:49:50,609
add you know extra points of failure like you said and that's essentially what it comes down

623
00:49:50,609 --> 00:49:56,429
to is single sig you just have one address one wallet where it's fully yours and multi-sig it

624
00:49:56,429 --> 00:50:02,349
sort of expands the your your network so you need to in order for someone to steal your bitcoin they

625
00:50:02,349 --> 00:50:06,249
would need to get multiple addresses from multiple locations so it just makes it more difficult

626
00:50:06,249 --> 00:50:12,889
um and everyone has a different you know place where they want to fall on that spectrum of

627
00:50:12,889 --> 00:50:17,369
convenience versus security so that's one of the cool things about bitcoin you can really just

628
00:50:17,369 --> 00:50:22,809
make it as secure as you want to i know people that just you know have it just on a piece of

629
00:50:22,809 --> 00:50:26,189
paper somewhere and they just have like a difficult puzzle that only they would know how to solve

630
00:50:26,189 --> 00:50:28,449
or some people just memorize it.

631
00:50:28,609 --> 00:50:33,849
And we hear examples of people who are escaping bad authoritarian regimes

632
00:50:33,849 --> 00:50:39,209
in third world countries who they learn about Bitcoin,

633
00:50:39,309 --> 00:50:41,169
they save their money in Bitcoin smartly,

634
00:50:41,329 --> 00:50:43,449
and they escape and they cross the border.

635
00:50:43,709 --> 00:50:47,029
And in the past, people would be completely robbed at the border

636
00:50:47,029 --> 00:50:48,269
and they would lose all their money

637
00:50:48,269 --> 00:50:50,429
and they would have to start at zero wherever they go.

638
00:50:50,489 --> 00:50:52,989
But with Bitcoin, they don't need to have anything.

639
00:50:53,069 --> 00:50:54,189
They don't even need to have a piece of paper.

640
00:50:54,269 --> 00:50:55,989
They can just memorize 12 words in their head

641
00:50:55,989 --> 00:51:01,529
and then when they go to the next place it's safer they can then recover that bitcoin and

642
00:51:01,529 --> 00:51:06,869
you're good to go yeah so i would insist on the recover part afterwards because you never know

643
00:51:06,869 --> 00:51:10,389
what could happen to your head and then you actually lose your bitcoin so i hear people

644
00:51:10,389 --> 00:51:13,209
say all the time oh just memorize and then i won't have to worry about storing any of these

645
00:51:13,209 --> 00:51:17,589
things and it's like okay that's fine right now when you're 35 but you know when you're 75 are

646
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:21,349
you like repeating the words every single day like have you lost your marbles a little bit you know

647
00:51:21,349 --> 00:51:28,549
yeah i personally would never do that but i guess there's some situations you know i mean i have

648
00:51:28,549 --> 00:51:32,169
like permanent brain damage probably from having kids wake me up every single night for the last

649
00:51:32,169 --> 00:51:36,309
seven years so it's like you know that alone would be the reason not to have that stored in my head

650
00:51:36,309 --> 00:51:41,229
and then you can then upgrade once they're old enough you can have each of your three kids

651
00:51:41,229 --> 00:51:48,669
memorize four words and then you have a child multi-sig going on yeah i would say though the

652
00:51:48,669 --> 00:51:52,029
thing to insist with multi-sig right is that you can use these institutions right you can use

653
00:51:52,029 --> 00:51:55,949
something like unchained capital to help you but also you can set it up on your own where you

654
00:51:55,949 --> 00:52:00,469
actually have all three keys and you only need two or three to sign but just don't store them

655
00:52:00,469 --> 00:52:04,529
together i mean it seems like the obvious thing to say to people and everyone says yeah yeah yeah

656
00:52:04,529 --> 00:52:08,189
i know and then you know we talked to somebody and they're like yeah i have it together because

657
00:52:08,189 --> 00:52:12,529
i couldn't figure out another place to store it and so it's like there's no point if you're just

658
00:52:12,529 --> 00:52:17,569
gonna do that just do single sig do you see what i mean right there's no point in having this

659
00:52:17,569 --> 00:52:20,589
elaborate setup if at the end of the day you're just going to store it the same way you store

660
00:52:20,589 --> 00:52:25,209
single sig so i think like people need to just consider things like that of like their own

661
00:52:25,209 --> 00:52:29,669
personal abilities and what they're actually going to do rather than what influencers like

662
00:52:29,669 --> 00:52:33,869
me tell you to do on the internet not that i'm actually an influencer nobody cares what i say

663
00:52:33,869 --> 00:52:38,229
let's be honest you're good you're a good influence i think anyone that has good influence

664
00:52:38,229 --> 00:52:43,929
can still be called influencer but you're the good kind so let's talk about the actual

665
00:52:43,929 --> 00:52:51,729
buying amounts and we we hear in bitcoin a lot about lump sum versus dollar cost averaging and

666
00:52:51,729 --> 00:52:56,449
for for listeners that's basically lump sum is like if you're just going to yolo all of your

667
00:52:56,449 --> 00:53:04,269
your cash into it or dollar cost averaging which dca for short is when you set up a basically a

668
00:53:04,269 --> 00:53:15,965
an interval either it could be a daily buy a weekly buy or a monthly buy of just a little bit over time How do you introduce these two options and which ones do you think would be best for which types of people for buying Bitcoin

669
00:53:16,625 --> 00:53:20,285
Yeah, so I think it really depends on how you get money.

670
00:53:20,685 --> 00:53:26,065
So, right, if you're earning money on a regular basis, you haven't received any kind of inheritance,

671
00:53:26,065 --> 00:53:29,225
you didn't get any kind of accident where you got some kind of payout, right?

672
00:53:29,325 --> 00:53:31,645
You didn't get some sort of lump sum bonus.

673
00:53:31,645 --> 00:53:47,725
If you're just earning money and you're saving, you know, 10 to 20% of your income, then DCA obviously is the right way to go because you as you get income, right, you shouldn't just accumulate fiat over time, you should just go and buy the Bitcoin when you get paid, and then use whatever's left over to pay your bills, feed your family and do everything else that you're doing.

674
00:53:47,725 --> 00:53:53,165
um it's like it's kind of traditional finance 101 is like pay yourself first quote unquote

675
00:53:53,165 --> 00:53:57,705
and i don't mean it into insurance policies like sometimes they often use it i really mean it as

676
00:53:57,705 --> 00:54:03,545
like save your money before you go and do anything else um for a lot of people that's just simply not

677
00:54:03,545 --> 00:54:07,285
what they do right they get the money in they go and pay all the things that they're supposed to

678
00:54:07,285 --> 00:54:11,425
pay and then whatever's left over that's what they decide that they're going to save and so i would

679
00:54:11,425 --> 00:54:14,745
say before you're even thinking about dca versus lump sum the first thing you actually have to do

680
00:54:14,745 --> 00:54:18,565
is just evaluate how much income do I have going out? How much do I like how much do I have coming

681
00:54:18,565 --> 00:54:24,385
in? How much expenses do I have going out? What's the bottom line? And can I consistently decide to

682
00:54:24,385 --> 00:54:28,565
allocate to that? Because if you can, then DCA is the best way to go because you just set up a draft,

683
00:54:28,645 --> 00:54:35,265
right? And then every month you invest $1,000 or save $1,000, excuse me, into Bitcoin and and you

684
00:54:35,265 --> 00:54:39,145
just move on with your life and it's done and then you move on and do the rest of your expenses

685
00:54:39,145 --> 00:54:43,805
and pay whatever you need to pay. If you're finding that you're not able to save consistently

686
00:54:43,805 --> 00:54:48,085
over time, then you're going to end up in these situations where you when you do have the cash,

687
00:54:48,445 --> 00:54:53,325
you have to make decisions of, okay, do I want to invest it now? Or do I want to like save this for

688
00:54:53,325 --> 00:54:58,205
later? What am I thinking? Or what am I doing? And I would say even in that situation, when you find

689
00:54:58,205 --> 00:55:03,765
that you have excess cash, you should save at that point in time, don't wait, don't try to time the

690
00:55:03,765 --> 00:55:07,685
market, don't do any of these things. I see people make more mistakes from trying to time the market

691
00:55:07,685 --> 00:55:12,645
than they do from just putting it into Bitcoin and waiting. And it's the same thing I would say

692
00:55:12,645 --> 00:55:15,545
with lump sum versus DCA if you do get an inheritance.

693
00:55:15,765 --> 00:55:18,965
Typically what I recommend is that at least 50% of it

694
00:55:18,965 --> 00:55:21,925
goes into Bitcoin right away of whatever it is

695
00:55:21,925 --> 00:55:23,185
that we were going to save in Bitcoin.

696
00:55:23,585 --> 00:55:26,005
Just because like timing the market just doesn't work.

697
00:55:26,105 --> 00:55:28,345
And especially the more volatile an asset is,

698
00:55:28,385 --> 00:55:31,425
the more studies there are on people actually messing up

699
00:55:31,425 --> 00:55:34,245
and ending up with less.

700
00:55:34,585 --> 00:55:36,725
And so I think it's counterintuitive because you think,

701
00:55:36,825 --> 00:55:38,445
okay, well, Bitcoin bounces around so much.

702
00:55:38,505 --> 00:55:41,085
So surely I should be able to time some down part.

703
00:55:41,085 --> 00:55:45,905
But what ends up happening is that Bitcoin starts to creep up and people are like, oh, no, I didn't. I mean, I might miss it.

704
00:55:45,945 --> 00:55:49,185
You know, and then you just immediately buy the top and then, you know, dips 10 percent right after.

705
00:55:49,365 --> 00:55:53,845
And I'm not saying this because, like, I don't do this. Right. I have done this. Right.

706
00:55:54,685 --> 00:55:58,125
If I just would have waited two days that I would have gotten much more Bitcoin. Right.

707
00:55:58,165 --> 00:56:06,805
And so I still think even with data of people ending up better off trying to time is that you don't know the future and you might end up worse off.

708
00:56:06,805 --> 00:56:17,085
And so just buy from depending on how large, though, of let's say a lump sum, depending on how large a bonus might be or how large an inheritance might be or payout or whatever it is that you get.

709
00:56:17,565 --> 00:56:21,505
Like from there, you can decide basically, do I like put 50 percent in right away?

710
00:56:21,585 --> 00:56:23,005
Do I put 100 percent in right away?

711
00:56:23,165 --> 00:56:24,405
Like 75 percent.

712
00:56:24,465 --> 00:56:33,905
Right. Some of these decisions are just based on like how much it is worth, like not really necessarily where the Bitcoin price is, but really like do I even know how much of that capital I have to allocate?

713
00:56:33,905 --> 00:56:42,865
yeah i would say when i'm telling people what i i think they should do on this my my advice has

714
00:56:42,865 --> 00:56:48,705
changed over time just the more crazy the world gets and the more it just seems like all these

715
00:56:48,705 --> 00:56:53,725
major catalysts are so close like they're always it's like that meme of the truck getting so close

716
00:56:53,725 --> 00:56:58,685
to that post over and over it's like we're so close to things is really blowing up i i've sort

717
00:56:58,685 --> 00:57:05,265
of shifted toward you know like if you have a decent stack of cash to invest like i would

718
00:57:05,265 --> 00:57:10,505
definitely at least put a big chunk of it in right away because even if it and just make sure that

719
00:57:10,505 --> 00:57:17,365
you have a long time horizon because like you said things can happen and there can be a big dip at

720
00:57:17,365 --> 00:57:22,225
any time we've seen we see dips happen all the time just make sure that you you know that won't

721
00:57:22,225 --> 00:57:27,545
wreck you and don't use leverage and if you're looking for at least i don't know how long would

722
00:57:27,545 --> 00:57:32,605
say four years is sort of your starting horizon where people like should just completely pretend

723
00:57:32,605 --> 00:57:38,385
it doesn't exist for four years and I think at this point I would say I'd feel very confident

724
00:57:38,385 --> 00:57:43,605
that any four-year period after you know buying now you're going to be up it's going to be very

725
00:57:43,605 --> 00:57:47,525
high likelihood would you agree with that yeah I mean I tend to use longer periods I mean we like

726
00:57:47,525 --> 00:57:52,545
to think of 10 years really as kind of a more longer term period of time and so like any any

727
00:57:52,545 --> 00:57:57,865
cash basically that somebody doesn't need for 10 years just such an easy sell like okay surely

728
00:57:57,865 --> 00:58:03,825
10 years later right no matter where we buy today you're going to be better off um and so i think

729
00:58:03,825 --> 00:58:08,785
that like right you some somehow when we get into some of these like lower lower time horizon numbers

730
00:58:08,785 --> 00:58:13,345
of like okay well i was going to use some of this money to go buy a house in one to two years or

731
00:58:13,345 --> 00:58:16,865
whatever it is right or even in four years but you're not necessarily sure right you could still

732
00:58:16,865 --> 00:58:20,685
be on the cusp depending on when you when you put the money in right you could actually have a flat

733
00:58:20,685 --> 00:58:24,865
market where you put into Bitcoin, it did all sorts of things in the middle, and then you ended up at

734
00:58:24,865 --> 00:58:28,085
the same price. So I guess like, in some ways, it's still a store of value, but not necessarily

735
00:58:28,085 --> 00:58:32,825
something that you're making more off of than you're going to go put into a house. So I think

736
00:58:32,825 --> 00:58:36,705
there's some of these discussions where you just have to decide, like based on what you're looking

737
00:58:36,705 --> 00:58:40,525
to do and your time horizon, right, what makes the most sense. But in general, yeah, I agree with you.

738
00:58:40,825 --> 00:58:44,625
If you've got cash, and you've got a long time horizon, I don't see why you would have it sit in

739
00:58:44,625 --> 00:58:49,585
fiat, unless of course, like you were on the opposite spectrum, where you just didn't carry

740
00:58:49,585 --> 00:58:53,685
any fiat and you weren't worried about any kind of emergency reserve, right? And for some reason,

741
00:58:53,685 --> 00:58:57,085
you ended up with some lump sum. At that point, I would actually evaluate what kind of emergency

742
00:58:57,085 --> 00:59:01,425
fund makes sense for you and your family. Because like, ultimately, what I've seen happen to people,

743
00:59:01,785 --> 00:59:05,745
and people don't like to talk about this, right? People like to talk about the success stories of

744
00:59:05,745 --> 00:59:09,065
how they have zero fiat, and now they're a trillionaire or whatever it is, right?

745
00:59:10,285 --> 00:59:14,185
They don't like to talk about the fact that they had zero emergency reserve, and they actually had

746
00:59:14,185 --> 00:59:20,185
go sell their Bitcoin to pay a large tax bill to go buy a new boiler to go fix the transmission on

747
00:59:20,185 --> 00:59:24,645
their car right I hear a lot of those stories in my own practice because right like I see the nitty

748
00:59:24,645 --> 00:59:28,705
gritty of what's going on but you don't hear about those stories on the internet because no one tells

749
00:59:28,705 --> 00:59:34,285
you like the dumb mistake that they made and why they have you know only three Bitcoin instead of

750
00:59:34,285 --> 00:59:40,745
five you know or whatever it is right so nobody likes to admit these things and so I think like

751
00:59:40,745 --> 00:59:45,585
first principles of finance yeah these make sense of like okay have some sort of fiat reserves so

752
00:59:45,585 --> 00:59:49,065
that when things come up and they will come up right and they don't necessarily come up every

753
00:59:49,065 --> 00:59:53,005
single year that you don't actually have to go sell your bitcoin to go fix whatever it is that

754
00:59:53,005 --> 00:59:57,605
that actually happened and you know i hope that that won't happen to people obviously that's just

755
00:59:57,605 --> 01:00:01,545
not the case like you can't expect that nothing like they're gonna have no uncertainty in your

756
01:00:01,545 --> 01:00:16,482
life um like that just not reality and i think what we always like we need to live on realities terms And that applies also to future price predictions I often see this with Bitcoiners of like well it inevitable Bitcoin is going to be you know a million dollars a coin So I don have to worry

757
01:00:16,482 --> 01:00:20,062
about all the stuff that you're talking about. And it's going to take over the fiat system. And

758
01:00:20,062 --> 01:00:23,962
we're not going to have the IRS anymore. And, you know, estate planning laws aren't going to matter

759
01:00:23,962 --> 01:00:28,002
anymore and all this stuff. And it's like, okay, but all this stuff actually matters today, right?

760
01:00:28,082 --> 01:00:32,642
We need to live in the reality of today, we could still have all these lofty, you know, examples of

761
01:00:32,642 --> 01:00:35,342
what's going to happen in the future and be excited about the future. Right.

762
01:00:35,442 --> 01:00:38,302
And have hope. But, um, and,

763
01:00:38,502 --> 01:00:41,662
and hopefully we do all live in that world in 10, 15, 20 years,

764
01:00:41,722 --> 01:00:43,342
whatever it is. Right. But in the meantime, right,

765
01:00:43,342 --> 01:00:46,962
you still need to plan for today because things can happen today and you want to

766
01:00:46,962 --> 01:00:47,462
be prepared.

767
01:00:48,822 --> 01:00:52,462
Yeah. It's a balance because you don't want to sink yourself with, you know,

768
01:00:52,462 --> 01:00:54,542
by being just too focused on the future.

769
01:00:54,542 --> 01:00:57,862
And I sometimes find myself pulled in that direction of myself.

770
01:00:57,862 --> 01:01:01,962
If I just think so far in the future where I have to stop myself, like Ben,

771
01:01:01,962 --> 01:01:06,982
You got to relax. We still live in this system that sucks. You have to play these games sometimes.

772
01:01:07,902 --> 01:01:17,182
And it's, you know, it's good to have a balance because it's I'm definitely much more hopeful for the future because I do see a much better future when we're on that sound money standard.

773
01:01:17,342 --> 01:01:25,142
And I think that this is a also a good tool for helping people understand why, you know, buying Bitcoin is literally good for your mental health.

774
01:01:26,042 --> 01:01:29,062
Do you ever talk about that with people in your practice at all?

775
01:01:29,062 --> 01:01:30,862
I mean, we see this so common.

776
01:01:30,862 --> 01:01:33,042
Yeah, just to add one more thing before I talk about mental health.

777
01:01:33,222 --> 01:01:39,442
So to put this into perspective to people, what people are doing in Bitcoin, imagine you get married and you have a child, okay?

778
01:01:39,462 --> 01:01:41,262
And the child is three months old.

779
01:01:41,762 --> 01:01:42,862
They've just rolled over.

780
01:01:43,102 --> 01:01:51,022
And all you talk about with your wife is who they're going to get married to and what it's going to be like when they're married with their own kids, right?

781
01:01:51,022 --> 01:01:56,602
Like that's what it is when we're projecting out this amazing future that we don't know anything about.

782
01:01:56,602 --> 01:02:24,062
But like, instead of enjoying the moment of my son just rolled over, I'm now talking about what he's going to be doing when he's 28, and going to be married to somebody random, you know what I mean? Like, it just doesn't make sense. And so I think when we talk about these kinds of examples, right, all of a sudden, it puts into perspective, yeah, that's crazy. Like, of course, I wouldn't be thinking about that, right? Because why would I? But like, we all and I'm guilty of this, too, right? Like, what it would be like living in this Bitcoin world. Like, you know, the reality is that, yeah, it's gonna hopefully be a much better life than it is today.

783
01:02:24,062 --> 01:02:50,782
And I have great hopes for my kids that like, when they have kids that their kids won't have complete garbage toys from China, you know, that will have nicely made things that don't break all the time. And that I won't have to replace things like my toaster every 10 years, you know, like, I, of course, I think about those things, too. But like, also, you know, we need to live in reality, obviously. And reality is not so bad either, right? Like where we live today, it could have been a lot worse, we could be living, you know, 1000 years ago, where, you know, people just died because there was a plague.

784
01:02:50,782 --> 01:02:54,942
right like things are like if we put into perspective of like the difference between

785
01:02:54,942 --> 01:02:58,482
what things were back then versus where they are now versus where they will be right i think that

786
01:02:58,482 --> 01:03:03,662
like the ultimately why we're here is to make the best of what of our current situation right and

787
01:03:03,662 --> 01:03:08,322
we were placed in a specific time in a specific place with a specific family right to make the

788
01:03:08,322 --> 01:03:11,642
best of today and to make the world a better place and i think like to answer your question

789
01:03:11,642 --> 01:03:15,502
about mental health and yeah then kind of all that stuff melts away right if you know that you're

790
01:03:15,502 --> 01:03:18,762
here for a purpose and you're supposed to be here in this time in this place doing whatever it is

791
01:03:18,762 --> 01:03:22,902
that you're doing right and making the most of your life here and trying to make the world a

792
01:03:22,902 --> 01:03:27,642
better place in whatever way you can. Right. And Bitcoiners are really idealistic. Right. We're all

793
01:03:27,642 --> 01:03:30,802
doing this because we want the world to be a better place. We're not doing this because we

794
01:03:30,802 --> 01:03:34,142
just want to have yachts. You know, I mean, I think that there are some people obviously that

795
01:03:34,142 --> 01:03:39,702
are doing that, but most people I would say like are very ideological. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely

796
01:03:39,702 --> 01:03:43,622
more of a crypto thing. And most Bitcoiners I know are very ideological. They want a better future.

797
01:03:43,622 --> 01:03:51,042
They want to like, you know, have the nuclear family and have all the, you know, have like a more meaningful and intentional life.

798
01:03:51,402 --> 01:03:54,202
And so and you can have that today without living in a Bitcoin world.

799
01:03:54,202 --> 01:03:58,142
And when you're thinking about how you're living your life, like a lot of that can just melt away.

800
01:03:58,222 --> 01:04:02,862
You don't need to have that anxiety about everything if you're just doing what you're supposed to be doing right now.

801
01:04:04,782 --> 01:04:05,182
100%.

802
01:04:05,182 --> 01:04:09,982
And we see this so many times just when we go to meetups and conferences with a bunch of Bitcoiners.

803
01:04:09,982 --> 01:04:20,562
They really do fit that mold of people that are really excited about the future and passionate about building the future and having lots of babies and doing all these long term things.

804
01:04:21,102 --> 01:04:38,842
Because we, you know, when you look at the people who are pessimistic about the future and sort of these fiat NPCs, as we call them, they're just kind of walking around and they're just depressed and unhappy and have no hope for the future for all the reasons that we've talked about.

805
01:04:38,842 --> 01:04:44,422
you know they're it's just becoming harder to live for so many people so when you find bitcoin

806
01:04:44,422 --> 01:04:49,022
it it sends you in all sorts of more positive directions and it gets you into more rabbit holes

807
01:04:49,022 --> 01:04:54,522
that are not just cope you know it's actual real solutions are being built here that are going to

808
01:04:54,522 --> 01:05:00,942
fix this and we know that there are going to be quite turbulent times between now and then like

809
01:05:00,942 --> 01:05:07,382
there's never been a perfectly smooth monetary transition before it you know it could get ugly

810
01:05:07,382 --> 01:05:10,322
but we're holding the thing that's going to get us through it.

811
01:05:10,382 --> 01:05:10,842
Would you agree?

812
01:05:11,822 --> 01:05:13,122
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

813
01:05:13,362 --> 01:05:15,982
I mean, I think just sound money alone

814
01:05:15,982 --> 01:05:18,582
and also caring about the next generation,

815
01:05:18,922 --> 01:05:20,262
one of the issues that we're having right now

816
01:05:20,262 --> 01:05:21,682
is that we have terrible money

817
01:05:21,682 --> 01:05:25,622
and a lot of politicians that don't have children, right?

818
01:05:25,862 --> 01:05:27,962
So like not only is the money just terrible

819
01:05:27,962 --> 01:05:30,282
and as a result, like there's just downstream of that,

820
01:05:30,342 --> 01:05:33,042
just complete depravity and corruption

821
01:05:33,042 --> 01:05:34,722
and terrible things happening, right?

822
01:05:34,722 --> 01:05:38,062
And then like these people aren't having children also,

823
01:05:38,062 --> 01:05:41,102
because it doesn't seem that important to even care about the next generation.

824
01:05:41,102 --> 01:05:43,162
Cause why bother if like the climate is, you know,

825
01:05:43,242 --> 01:05:45,542
if temperatures are rising to a million degrees, you know,

826
01:05:45,542 --> 01:05:47,982
I don't believe the stuff, but I'm just saying like the narratives out there is

827
01:05:47,982 --> 01:05:51,442
that the earth is going to be on fire and in an hour, um,

828
01:05:51,442 --> 01:05:54,742
the money is worthless, right? Everyone's on drugs. Uh,

829
01:05:54,742 --> 01:05:57,962
we don't know what genders we are, right? Like we're in this world where it's

830
01:05:57,962 --> 01:06:01,442
like, why bother? Why do anything for the next generation?

831
01:06:01,442 --> 01:06:04,122
So we might as well just print lots of money and just do whatever we're doing

832
01:06:04,122 --> 01:06:09,062
right now today. And then, you know, who cares? Whereas like, if we've got right sound money,

833
01:06:09,062 --> 01:06:13,362
where we can think more in the future about like planning, and how we're going to be, you know,

834
01:06:13,402 --> 01:06:17,062
raising families, and how we can think about society in general, right now, all of a sudden,

835
01:06:17,382 --> 01:06:21,742
the next generation matters. And what we do today has an effect on the next generation,

836
01:06:21,742 --> 01:06:25,202
instead of just kicking the can down a row, because you know, why not? And who cares about

837
01:06:25,202 --> 01:06:28,802
the next people? Because I'm not even gonna have kids anyways. So somebody else's kids will deal

838
01:06:28,802 --> 01:06:33,662
with whatever I'm doing today. The mentality is very different. And so yeah, of course,

839
01:06:33,662 --> 01:06:37,622
It's going to be like, I think at the end of the day, right, it just comes back to freedom

840
01:06:37,622 --> 01:06:38,462
versus responsibility.

841
01:06:38,882 --> 01:06:42,602
So often when people think of freedom, they think I want to do whatever I want to do.

842
01:06:42,602 --> 01:06:43,662
And I want to do it now.

843
01:06:43,822 --> 01:06:45,522
And that's not actually freedom, right?

844
01:06:45,542 --> 01:06:49,802
If we think about all sorts of things in our lives, these things have rules and responsibilities

845
01:06:49,802 --> 01:06:51,562
that are that actually give you freedom.

846
01:06:51,562 --> 01:06:56,202
So for instance, like when you're driving on a road, if anyone had the freedom to go

847
01:06:56,202 --> 01:07:00,682
anywhere at any time on any road without any road signs or traffic rules or so forth, right?

848
01:07:00,682 --> 01:07:12,898
No one would actually be able to get anywhere because everyone would be crisscrossing and cutting each other off and trying to get somewhere or just be a big traffic jam or worse many accidents right And so having rules on the road enable us to have the freedom to get where we want to go

849
01:07:13,158 --> 01:07:18,018
right? Same thing with like, you play baseball or basketball, right? You wouldn't have a game if

850
01:07:18,018 --> 01:07:21,578
you didn't have rules. You can't play baseball if you don't have rules of baseball. You can't play

851
01:07:21,578 --> 01:07:26,058
basketball if you don't have rules of basketball. These games don't exist, right? So in any part,

852
01:07:26,058 --> 01:07:31,958
in every aspect of society. Having rules actually helps us have the freedom to do what it is that we

853
01:07:31,958 --> 01:07:36,758
want to do. And so it's the same thing with the money, right? If we're just willy-nilly printing

854
01:07:36,758 --> 01:07:40,238
money and we have the freedom to print and do whatever we want, right? We have absolute chaos.

855
01:07:40,498 --> 01:07:44,438
But when we have responsibility with our money, because our money is sound and our money is going

856
01:07:44,438 --> 01:07:47,698
to provide for us for many, many generations, right? We have rules around how we store our

857
01:07:47,698 --> 01:07:51,078
money and what we do with our money and how we're going to save and spend and where we're going to

858
01:07:51,078 --> 01:07:54,938
put it and what we're thinking about is in terms of what we need now versus what we need later,

859
01:07:54,938 --> 01:07:59,158
right all of a sudden we have all this freedom that opens us up to actually having the life that

860
01:07:59,158 --> 01:08:05,018
we want to have one of the pieces you mentioned there that is one of my last questions i have

861
01:08:05,018 --> 01:08:12,858
circled here i'd love to ask you is regarding how different people have different mindsets regarding

862
01:08:12,858 --> 01:08:19,618
you know the future and how how important you you make it that you leave a good future for

863
01:08:19,618 --> 01:08:25,338
next generations and i think this has become a hot topic of talking about how like the baby boomers

864
01:08:25,338 --> 01:08:31,038
and the millennials and the gen z all sort of fit into this puzzle and i assume you're a millennial

865
01:08:31,038 --> 01:08:40,658
i'm a millennial and we i think it's become more within the uh overton window to say you know what

866
01:08:40,658 --> 01:08:46,098
the baby boomers kind of screwed us here like this it seems like their generation kind of

867
01:08:46,098 --> 01:08:49,538
didn't really give us a better hand than they had.

868
01:08:49,798 --> 01:08:52,438
So I'm curious what your thoughts are on this.

869
01:08:52,878 --> 01:08:55,518
I know it's a little bit of a spicy topic, but to settle it,

870
01:08:55,518 --> 01:08:59,838
I mean, how would you break down the hands that have been dealt to each generation

871
01:08:59,838 --> 01:09:03,058
from baby boomer to millennials to Gen Z to Gen Alpha?

872
01:09:03,898 --> 01:09:06,698
Because I think that this is important for those young people out there

873
01:09:06,698 --> 01:09:11,298
to understand that if you're struggling right now, it's not your fault completely.

874
01:09:11,558 --> 01:09:14,278
Not to say that you don't have any responsibility for yourself,

875
01:09:14,278 --> 01:09:18,278
But, you know, to be fair, like you've been given a worse hand.

876
01:09:18,358 --> 01:09:19,078
Would you agree with that?

877
01:09:19,098 --> 01:09:20,338
And how would you break that all down?

878
01:09:20,718 --> 01:09:23,618
I think people are going to hate my response, but I'm going to tell you it anyways.

879
01:09:23,958 --> 01:09:26,318
And feel free to send me hate mail because I stand by this.

880
01:09:27,418 --> 01:09:30,878
So you like getting back to what we were saying, right?

881
01:09:30,958 --> 01:09:33,518
Every single person was put where they need to be.

882
01:09:33,638 --> 01:09:34,758
That's that's my belief.

883
01:09:34,798 --> 01:09:38,058
And I know that to be true because that's just the way that it is.

884
01:09:38,058 --> 01:09:38,258
Right.

885
01:09:38,258 --> 01:09:42,298
We are born to do a certain thing in a certain time in a certain body with a certain family,

886
01:09:42,318 --> 01:09:43,378
with a certain circumstances.

887
01:09:43,378 --> 01:09:43,578
Right.

888
01:09:43,578 --> 01:09:47,758
And we can keep going out and out to all the layers on this, but you are exactly where you need to be.

889
01:09:47,858 --> 01:09:57,398
If you were given a worse hand than the generation before you and the generation before that, that's because you were the one to fix it, not because you should have been in a better situation, right?

890
01:09:57,398 --> 01:10:02,218
And if you were in a situation where you were supposed to make it worse and you did, then you did your job, right?

891
01:10:02,378 --> 01:10:05,938
I think that that's ultimately like, yes, we have free will.

892
01:10:06,058 --> 01:10:08,718
And yes, like we can make decisions about what we do, right?

893
01:10:08,738 --> 01:10:12,778
So it's actually what we do with that hand, like you were saying with responsibility, right?

894
01:10:12,778 --> 01:10:14,078
If you were dealt a bad hand, fine.

895
01:10:14,198 --> 01:10:17,578
There are plenty of people that have been dealt bad hands and they do great things, right?

896
01:10:17,618 --> 01:10:26,018
If you were dealt a good hand, there are plenty of people that have been dealt good hands and actually completely mess it up and make all sorts of bad decisions, even though they have the platter right in front of them.

897
01:10:26,258 --> 01:10:29,058
And the only thing that they had to do was pick up the fork, right?

898
01:10:29,178 --> 01:10:30,318
But instead, what do they do?

899
01:10:30,358 --> 01:10:31,438
They hit the platter, right?

900
01:10:31,438 --> 01:11:01,418
And so like, I just think that like, we have so much choice in how we handle our circumstances, that we can spend our lives feeling badly about the situation that we're in, and what happened before us, or we can choose to make lemonade with lemons, right? I tell this to my kids all the time, when they have issues, I'm like, okay, well, we can sulk here in the corner about how it's not fair. And, you know, like, how you wish you had this when somebody else has that and how like, you know, all these things, or we can be very grateful for all the gifts that we have.

901
01:11:01,438 --> 01:11:07,698
been blessed with. And it really does come down to like acknowledging that I think that's really

902
01:11:07,698 --> 01:11:12,438
hard for people. It's so easy to spot the thing that's wrong. And it's so hard to acknowledge all

903
01:11:12,438 --> 01:11:16,758
the things that are right and what we can do with the things that are right, rather than focusing in

904
01:11:16,758 --> 01:11:23,618
on what's wrong. I love that answer. That's amazing. And such a great way to end this, I think, is just

905
01:11:23,618 --> 01:11:30,478
that this mindset that to not get down on yourself for the situation is happening, because I know for

906
01:11:30,478 --> 01:11:34,618
a lot of people out there, it's hard. And a lot of people listening to this will be in a tough space.

907
01:11:35,138 --> 01:11:38,338
Even a lot of us Bitcoiners, you know, we're, we're stacking SaaS, but we still have to deal

908
01:11:38,338 --> 01:11:42,638
with the fiat world, you know, just because Bitcoiners have this knowledge of what the

909
01:11:42,638 --> 01:11:45,658
future is going to be like, doesn't mean it's, it's not difficult for everybody. So

910
01:11:45,658 --> 01:11:51,438
very good message of hope there and appreciate you sharing it. So Morgan, where can people go

911
01:11:51,438 --> 01:11:55,658
to find more of your work and order your book and get all this good stuff that you're working on?

912
01:11:56,078 --> 01:11:59,998
Yeah, for sure. So you can find me on Twitter. I'm at Morgan with an E Roshard.

913
01:11:59,998 --> 01:12:05,478
um e instead of an a um my husband and i have a podcast it's called bitcoin for advisors we try to

914
01:12:05,478 --> 01:12:09,978
get them out monthly but i'll be honest we usually get like seven to eight out per year so we're

915
01:12:09,978 --> 01:12:14,258
doing our best um with that but it's just it's similar to this where we just chit chat and we

916
01:12:14,258 --> 01:12:20,718
talk about bitcoin um i'm will be speaking um at bitcoin 2025 so if anyone wants to check me out

917
01:12:20,718 --> 01:12:24,938
there um pierre and i are doing a fireside chat there we'd love to see people um if you need

918
01:12:24,938 --> 01:12:30,058
financial planning, feel free to come to originwa.com. That's my financial planning firm. And

919
01:12:30,058 --> 01:12:34,218
then if you just need some consulting, it's moneyowners.com. My book's on Amazon. I'm working

920
01:12:34,218 --> 01:12:40,498
on another book. It's really slow going. I regret announcing that I was doing a book like while I

921
01:12:40,498 --> 01:12:44,458
was pregnant with my third because I really thought I really had it in my mind because I wrote my

922
01:12:44,458 --> 01:12:48,818
first book while I was pregnant with my second. I was like, I jammed that out in three months.

923
01:12:49,038 --> 01:12:53,978
It's a lot harder to jam out a book when you already have two kids. I just sort of had in my

924
01:12:53,978 --> 01:12:57,638
mind of like, I write stuff when I'm pregnant, I'm totally prolific. And yeah, no, I've been very

925
01:12:57,638 --> 01:13:02,518
humbled by that. So I'm still working on that book, but I'm about halfway through. It's specifically

926
01:13:02,518 --> 01:13:07,698
about Bitcoin personal finance, though, my other book is more of a general overview about personal

927
01:13:07,698 --> 01:13:13,278
finance. The Bitcoin section is very small, because my publisher made me make it small. And

928
01:13:13,278 --> 01:13:18,198
also, I think that Bitcoiners, when they read it, they can sort of elaborate on how the traditional

929
01:13:18,198 --> 01:13:21,718
financial concepts would apply to them specifically when they're holding Bitcoin. So maybe you don't

930
01:13:21,718 --> 01:13:25,678
need to spend too much time in the investments chapter, but spend some time in other places in

931
01:13:25,678 --> 01:13:32,158
that book because all that stuff is still relevant. Excellent. Well, I will be sure to put all those

932
01:13:32,158 --> 01:13:35,778
links in the show notes for people to check out. I'm looking forward to that book and I'll see you

933
01:13:35,778 --> 01:13:39,138
in Las Vegas because this is my first year I'll also be speaking. So I'm very much looking forward

934
01:13:39,138 --> 01:13:43,358
to it. It's going to be a fun time with lots of cool Bitcoiners and anyone out there looking to

935
01:13:43,358 --> 01:13:47,978
go meet some cool people, come. It's going to be super cool. That's a great place to go

936
01:13:47,978 --> 01:13:53,458
just get deeper into the Bitcoin rabbit hole no matter where you are. So highly recommend it.

937
01:13:53,858 --> 01:13:57,138
Morgan Richard, I appreciate you so much for coming to join me today. Thank you so much for

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talking with me. And I look forward to sharing this with my audience. Thanks, Ben. It was great

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having me on. Thank you.