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If I could hope for but one thing for you, so you'd be curious in all that you do.

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Cause love like a flower just wants to grow.

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Oh, and knowledge like your heart just wants to be known.

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If you like, please subscribe.

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This is Bitcoin Study Sessions.

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What is the importance of history in creating a network state?

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And what is the importance of Bitcoin in creating history?

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So today, Lucas and I are continuing our conversation of Balaji Srinivasan's The Network State,

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How to Start a New Country.

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We're moving on to chapter two, which is history as trajectory.

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And it is going to be about that.

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What is the role of history in the creation moving from a network startup to an actual full-fledged network state?

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As in this whole book, Balaji advised us in the introduction that this is a toolbox, not a manifesto.

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So chapter two, History of Trajectory, is like 200 pages or so.

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There's a lot here.

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And it's just it's lush with examples drawn from many different realms, kind of some detours that biology takes in some very interesting areas.

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A toolbox. We can take what's useful.

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I'll give a summary of, I think, kind of the grand themes of Chapter 2 situating it in the network state as it's kind of a whole.

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And then Lucas and I will rummage through that toolbox to talk about some of the specific items in it.

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Just to note, I guess, again, the network state available on Kindle.

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You can also download it for free or access it for free on a website that we'll probably link to, I suppose.

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So in the first part of the book, we saw the basics of what the network state is, that you begin creating a new society.

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You begin first in the cloud as a network startup and then eventually materialize here on Earth as the end state being a diplomatically recognized network state occupying physical territory.

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um bology gave us a one sentence definition of network state that quote a network state is a

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highly aligned online community with a capacity for collective action that crowd funds territory

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around the world and eventually gains diplomatic recognition so this chapter is a focus on history

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why focus on history in that one sentence definition a startup society is a highly

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aligned community of people. So they are aligned around what Balaji calls the one commandment,

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which is a historically founded socio-political innovation that guides that startup society,

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just as a tech innovation might guide like a regular startup that's going to become a company,

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a moral innovation that's historically founded guides a startup society.

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You need the one commandment. You need a moral principle and a deep purpose to do a startup

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society or a network startup that's going to become a network state, not just some new

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technological innovation or product.

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Because Balaji says, quote, you want to recruit producers, not consumers.

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And for that, you'll need a purpose.

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Also, to quote Balaji, the consumer citizen is coming to enjoy a great society, not to

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sacrifice to make a society great.

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So you want to get people who are citizens who are willing to sacrifice.

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You need a moral idea, a one commandment to attract them.

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And great tech innovations also often, even if a startup society is formed around a tech innovation, those often require a moral innovation in order to be fully realized.

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You pair the innovation with the moral idea. Sanitation requires an idea that cleanliness is next to godliness. The moral and the technical often go together.

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The moral innovation often opens the door to future technical innovation. So if AI research is evil, you're going to have a certain trajectory of AI research where it's centralized under government control.

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so one commandment is necessary to catalyze support for the network state balaji kind of

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summarizes it here every new startup society needs to have a moral premise at its core one that its

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founding nation subscribes to one that is supported by a digital history that a more powerful state

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can't delete one that justifies its existence as a righteous yet peaceful protest against the powers

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that be. So that injects this idea of history, which is the kind of the purpose of this chapter.

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Because a deep purpose is necessary in the form of this one commandment, history then becomes very

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important as the foundation for the one commandment and the startup society. There's kind of two broad

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reasons that history serves this purpose. First, history aligns us around the moral idea. It is

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that highly aligned community. History is what aligns people. It gives us purpose. It reveals

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and justifies a moral innovation. History provides us with the critique of our current society,

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which then is the reason why we need a moral innovation, something new. You don't need the

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moral innovation, something new, if you don't understand society as it is, if you don't

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understand history and aren't able to tell the historical story. Bology refers to it also as

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applied history, history that's actually used to determine morality and justify regulating or not

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regulating something. So it is history that wins arguments. We see it employed in that way all the

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time. It's history that tells us compelling stories. Some of the best movies are based on

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historical analogies or metaphors. History is also written by the victors and is the story

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of who is in charge, by who is in charge, that kind of justifies why they are in charge.

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So that's the first reason history aligns us around this moral idea and helps us justify it.

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Second, history has the more concrete purpose of helping us build.

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We draw from the past to find alternative social arrangements.

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Building a society requires knowledge of how societies have been built in the past.

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To build Apple the company requires some knowledge, historical knowledge of past companies.

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Building Apple the startup society requires some knowledge of past societies.

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So history is very important for Bologi because it is a necessary tool for a startup society founder, the one who's going to create this thing, because they need to have a community of highly aligned individuals around a moral critique of the current society and then build a society around that.

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To quote Balaji,

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You don't have community, which is necessary for startup society as opposed to just a technical startup.

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If you don't have a community around a moral innovation, Balaji says, you kind of have a Starbucks lounge, a soulless nullity with no direction save consumerism.

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So we focus on history as well because Balaji points this out in detail.

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we have seen how journalism, the first draft of history, has been corrupted recently, but also corrupted in the past.

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And that's actually corrupted in the sense of telling us false things to justify the doing of things to us or by us.

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Balaji compresses this in a phrase, if the news is fake, imagine history.

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So if the news now is politicized and often outright incorrect, and the news is the first draft of history and is kind of composing our past history, then how we see history is easily compromised by the incorrect flow of info right now.

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And history then becomes correctly understanding history becomes very important.

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At a deeper level, biology also challenges the conventional view, which is that history is stable in the short term and that it moves kind of inevitably toward a certain end in the long run, that history is an arc that bends toward justice.

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We get this idea, this kind of default idea, because we judge history based just on what we see during one lifespan, and so we don't see how history over multiple lifespans has a different form.

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Once we begin to have this broader view of history other than what is just told to us through journalism in our present moment, we begin, Balaji thinks, to move to a view that history is cyclical and helical.

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So a cycle essentially that has a Z axis that moves us upward through time.

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A cycle will seem to reset to go back to the starting point.

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But if it's also spiraling upward, there will also be a general tendency to change even as this cycle resets itself.

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This also, I think, brings us to Bitcoin in Balaji's historical argument or argument for the importance of history for a startup society.

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Bitcoin is worth what it is worth because of its history because it is a cryptographically verified history of who owns what.

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A new society can be built on a solid foundation of truth only if it begins to write itself to an incorruptible ledger.

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this kind of gets at this ability to write to an incorruptible ledger that bitcoin offer gets rid

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of four problems that are associated with current journalism and social media in general the problems

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are silos bots sensors and fakes so the problem it's siloed typically we see a historical log that

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is siloed across different corporate servers different media kind of enterprises there's also

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So bots, most of the content now is not cryptographically signed.

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So it could just be, you know, bots employed by a malicious actor trying to spread their

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version of the truth.

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There's also lots of censorship.

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We have centralized social media countries that companies that control and push certain

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narratives in cahoots with the establishment.

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We also have fakes.

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We have an increasing power of AI to generate highly realistic fakes and kind of

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propagate them throughout the network ecosystem. Bitcoin is a solution to all of these things,

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or at least a partial remedy in that it allows us to build a robust historical record because

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first it breaks silos. All the info is in one place on the blockchain. It defeats bots because

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content can now be cryptographically signed by the author. It also evades censorship because you

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don't have to go through a centralized social media company. Everybody has permissionless access.

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and it protects from fakes because it's costly to write to the blockchain and because it's also

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time-stamped. Bitcoin, this is an important aspect of it too, this is a technical point.

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Bitcoin can record non-Bitcoin related events. Balogy calls this proof of existence. For the

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price of a transaction, the Bitcoin blockchain can embed data that is not just the transaction

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data of Bitcoin zipping from one address to the next. You can also embed other data

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and therefore cryptographically verify the record of any historical event.

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So two examples to kind of make this more concrete,

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the way that Bitcoin can cryptographically verify history.

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First, you can imagine there's these famous photos from the Soviet Union

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where you'll have like Lenin or Stalin standing next to a group of people.

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And then you'll see a later version of that photo

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and some of the people are missing from it.

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They've been airbrushed.

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They've been literally purged and removed from history.

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but if that photo at the moment of creation had been embedded on the blockchain then you would see

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that later iterations would have a more temporally advanced time stamp a different time on them and

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so you could see that at least one occurred before the other one and you could also tell

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who the author of that photo was because it connected to a certain address so it makes

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information that way more verifiable and more resistant to future censorship.

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Second, the blockchain is just itself a history of the entire economy, at least all the transactions

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on chain. And additional economies can also be uploaded to the Bitcoin blockchain. Because that

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additional data can be embedded, you could actually update all of Ethereum to the Bitcoin

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blockchain every 10 minutes, or you could update your own society's internal governance-related

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blockchain to the Bitcoin blockchain to have that canonical version of events. So Bology calls this

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an industrial use case of Bitcoin, and it's certainly something interesting that people,

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I think, are building out. In this way, the Bitcoin blockchain can serve as a collective,

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cryptographically verifiable memory, a type of history that Balogy calls crypto history.

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So history, of course, is necessary for the foundation of the one commandment. And now

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we're having this idea of crypto history. Crypto history is important because history

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is often abused by those in power. As kind of indicated at the outset, history has all

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these functions and legitimating morality. And so power cares about history because the

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morality of the society is derives from the stories it tells itself, those historical

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narratives. The history you hear about is what is politically useful. For example,

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the Communist Party exhaustively internally reports on the opium wars when a coalition

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of Western nations kind of imposed opium usage on the country, but not about the Uyghurs or

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about Tiananmen Square. The U.S. reports on Tiananmen Square and the 2022 Russo-Ukrainian

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war but doesn't dwell on the 1908 nation alliance where the u.s helped invade china to defend the

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european imperialism or other events that make the u.s look bad so the nature of political power

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in creating truth is then contrasted with crypto history political power gives us political truth

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truth because the party says it is so it is that type of truth is true for everyone who believes it

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what the dollar is worth is a political truth where the borders are is a political truth these

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are based on power and kind of consensual belief. Tech power leads to tech truth. It's true even if

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no one believes it, like math and science. And it also, through crypto history, is a type of truth

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that at least is foundationally written onto the blockchain and is verifiable in certain aspects,

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such as tying it to specific people through their cryptographically verified signature

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and marking it at a certain point in time through a timestamp. Both of these are necessary,

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biology says political truth is needed to build an in-group narrative to highly align that

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community to decide things for the society but tech truth is needed as a sort of constraint on

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political truth truth should always be constrained by what objectively is mathematically and

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scientifically and tech truth is also kind of the history of what has worked in the past

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the interaction between political truth and tech truth has historically determined what entities

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or ideology is the ultimate arbiter of truth in society, the ultimate decider, the highest power

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for that society. Bology refers to these as leviathans. The leviathan for society is that

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highest ideology or power or thing you refer to to referee and decide any dispute. There have been

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three of these in the past. God, there have been two in the past and one developing. God, state,

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and then the network. These are the three Leviathans that are kind of the ultimate

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arbiters for society. So God was first with major religions, God kings, things like that.

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Then the state, what kind of came into power as Leviathan, the role of God diminished in importance

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and we had ideologies that operated intellectually without an appeal to God, things like democratic

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capitalism, Nazism, and communism. Now the newest contender for that Leviathan, the ultimate

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arbiter is the network things like the internet social networks cryptographic blockchains

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um another way to describe these just give you some mental traction on them perhaps

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biology describes in this way is in the uh when god is the leviathan people don't steal because

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god would condemn them um when the state is a leviathan people wouldn't steal because the state

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would punish them when the network is the leviathan people don't steal because the network won't let

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you. AI will detect you, the social network will mob you, or cryptography will outright prevent you.

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So the people that appeal to these different leviathans as the ultimate arbiter also have

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different views of the world, different values. Within the U.S., these divisions have cut across

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kind of the typical ideological divisions. Balaji really does provide an excellent and thorough and

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extensive taxonomy of different types of an ideological accounting of different types,

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along with the fascinating discussion of how wokeness fits into that as a doctrine. But it

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really, I think, boils down essentially to this. There are left status and what we could call left

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networkists, like left libertarians, people on the left, but who bifurcate, either supporting

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the stage or supporting the network. Same thing for the right, right status and right networkists.

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A left networkist might be somebody like a deplatformed sex worker, someone who's engaged in risky public activism and so sees the importance of decentralized systems.

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Anarchists and journalists who are kind of critique power but are consistent in that critique of power regardless of who is in power, people like Glenn Greenwald.

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the left libertarians left networkists tend to have a value outside of the state where the left

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status tend to worship the state itself right status and right network is in the network is

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we would say right status reflexively support the state these might be neocons who supported

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kamala even though they were on the right and then as opposed to right network is right libertarians

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who would be people like tech capitalist innovators like Elon Musk, Mark Andreessen,

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things like that. People who are libertarian and tech forward.

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So when the dollar is inflating away, here's one way to understand the distinction.

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When the dollar is inflating away and Bitcoin is on the rise, you're going to see the networkists,

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the people of the network on the left and the right, both break to support something like Bitcoin,

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a decentralized network. And you're going to see the status on both sides, the right status

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and the left status break to support the dying state with things like capital controls and

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related censorship. So the realignment that Balaji sees is not left versus right in America today,

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but top down versus bottom up. So network values against state values, different leviathans people

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support. We can cash this out and explain it this way. Balaji gives some examples. Ethnic minorities

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are breaking to the republicans while neoconservatives are breaking to the democrats

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this kind of breaks our old traditional matrix political matrix but helps show the state network

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divide tucker carlson and glynn greenwald are both breaking away one way and fox and new york

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times breaking the other way media conglomerates versus decentralized media bitcoin versus the us

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dollar web 3 versus big tech things like that so the conflict between the network and the state

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biology thinks is what's going to shape this century like the conflict between state and god

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shaped the last the struggle these wrestling leviathans how is the network a leviathan in

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competition with the state practically speaking biology gives some ways that the that the network

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does compete directly with the state. So encryption beats state violence, he says.

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It constrains state surveillance, allows organization and association outside of state

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control, prevents government seizure. A crypto economy can be greater than a fiat economy. We

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can see competition now between hard capped and scarce Bitcoin over inflating fiat.

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Peer-to-peer can be better than state media. Social networks' identities can become stronger

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than national identities. People often identify more with somebody they know online, hundreds of

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thousands of miles away, versus somebody who is their next door neighbor who they don't talk to

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at all. Networks are mobile and remote. They can move geographically. Of course, your nation states

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are fixed geographically. These are types of ways in which the network as Leviathan is competing,

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grappling with the state as Leviathan. As these Leviathans battle, part of the importance of

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history is telling new stories, giving new foundations for a possible network-based society

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to allow for us to align ourselves around a one commandment enabled by network-related tech

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in the creation of a network startup. So Balaji gives four different stories that we can use to

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see America's future as decentralized. I think it's kind of him showing that, yes, history is

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important in order to tell the story of how we get to a decentralized and network-based future.

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I'll just describe one of them here, the frontier thesis. The idea is that the concept of the

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frontier in the past has been a crucial driving force in history. When people would go to a new

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territory, when they felt stymied and suffocated where they were at. So when this new land dried up,

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when there was no frontier, no physical frontier, as this vow for free thinking and entrepreneurial

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people, now we're all cloistered together, it becomes zero sum, and this kind of leads to a

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bloody 20th century, because people can't just go somewhere else, they have to stay and fight over

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scarce resources. Now, though, there are possibilities for new frontiers, internet,

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sea, space, with internet being the most practical, and that's the idea, of course,

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an embryonic form of the network state as a hybrid internet land strategy that

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network or that Bologi develops in this in this book. So with tech, we can now get

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out of the cage of the American and Chinese establishments or wherever you

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are And we can open a new digital frontier that can then become a physical frontier as startup societies become network states So that a summary of Chapter 2 History as Trajectory

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which I think is a statement of the importance overall of the one commandment for a network startup,

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that moral purpose, and then the importance of history in determining and substantiating that one commandment.

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So, Lucas, I had one question I want to throw back to you.

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the question is essentially you are a network startup founder

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what is your one commandment around which your society is based

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and biology describes the one commandment as like a pitch deck for a startup it's that one

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specific issue where history and science has convinced you that society is currently lacking

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in a way that you have high conviction.

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So just as a startup society founder,

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well, as a tech investor,

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you'd be telling people about your tech innovation,

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pitching that it's faster, cheaper, better.

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But you are a moral entrepreneur,

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a startup trying to found a network startup society,

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telling people about your better way of life.

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Do you have a one commandment to pitch us, I guess?

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I think it would be self-reliance slash resilience or self-reliance through resilience, I think would be what I would start with.

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when we lived in the world where the God was the ultimate truth

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and then we moved to a world where state was the ultimate truth.

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In both of those instances, we have an authority that is co-opted

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by people who learn how to exploit the system for their own benefit.

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And the way that they do that is to make the person, make the populace dependent upon whatever that Leviathan is.

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So if the Leviathan is God, then you must do this in order to please God.

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Except it's not God telling you that, it's the guy wearing the God hat.

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and if it's the state then you must do this in order to please the state and it's not the state

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telling you that it's the guy wearing the state suit and so I think if you look at if you look at

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the reason I think if you look at the reason why those two systems failed it was because

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they emphasized a reliance upon a higher authority for people to

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for people to exist inside of whatever that leviathan was and so i think

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yeah i think if you focus on self-reliance through resilience by

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by marshalling your resources and clustering around huddling around the idea that the technology

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exists for you to um for you to provide for yourself then you can have a god by choice

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You can have a state and a government by choice as opposed to being forced into something that is slowly being co-opted and thus turns to abuse to the populace.

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I think that's what I would go with.

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How would you encode that moral innovation into a practical application that people would, by joining your startup society, begin to enable their self-reliance?

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Why do people want to align themselves around that type of reliance, specifically in your community?

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What is the founder going to offer people who comes?

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Is it going to be, hey, everybody's reliant now?

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Like what practically, I guess, did the founder do to begin to build out this idea of reliance as the one commandment?

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Yeah. One of the things like reading on Bology's network school that they basically use as a selling point is if you come stay with us, you'll you'll be like just just by being here.

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you'll learn things that give you skills that allow you to exist in this world um and stand on

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your own you will um experience you know physical and emotional um growth yeah and so i guess just

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some foundation the network school is like biology's practical application the network state that he's

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like actually like doing right now yeah i i think that's what i would align it around which like i

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I think that's a very good example, which is there's a multi-tiered approach.

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I would say kind of like three tiers, which is, you know, like fitness and health is one

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where they have like Brian Johnson and the Don't Die group that is leading everything

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from the French press to the bench press.

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I like that.

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You know, the nutrition and the fitness.

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And so that's covered.

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And then, you know, the learning is covered.

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Like the goal is to make this the techno Harvard that is starting from scratch and world class in what you're going to learn.

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And you're going to learn simply by being there because when you're a small fish and you go get into the big pond, you have to learn how to swim with the big fish.

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And then the third thing is probably the most important, I would say.

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and I think we're seeing

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we're really seeing this

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as highlighting

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what's

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highlighting the failures

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of the current system

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which is the socialization aspect of it

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humans are social creatures

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they

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truly desire to be around

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other people, to enjoy time

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with other people and so that would be

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that's the third thing that they focus on

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I'm not

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creative enough probably to do better than that.

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And so I'll answer you by saying that I won't give you my answer.

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I'll give you Bology's answer, which I think is the one that I would hopefully arrive at

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if I were really to sit and think about it, which is just to say,

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you know, fitness, fitness, growth, and socialization.

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growth in terms of emotional and academic growth,

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and then socialization with other people that are seeking a community.

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Yeah.

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When we locked everybody down, right?

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That was what kicked off this wave of depression, wave of social anxiety,

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and social distancing really did cause distance within our society

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where people seem further away than they were before.

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It's so much of a hassle to drive 15 minutes to see your friend.

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Yeah.

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I wish you lived in the same building.

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Well, that's what a network society is,

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is, hey, let's go live in the same building.

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Let's go live on the same block.

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um let's uh you know we we have this connection and that connection that connection stays true

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through technology because we're able to maintain it that way but we're finding that that is just

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not enough right it's just not enough for people to experience life in the way that is satisfying

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and fulfilling yeah i mean like i said that that's yeah no like the base impulse is like

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we've always had that impulse all of us i think is would it be cool to have a compound with our

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best friends and only our best friends and that's who will live by to consciously cultivate a

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community i mean it was an unfair question to ask you like what startup society would you do

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and expect you to come up with the one commandment right up front i do like you know your description

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of bology's iteration on that which i think is like the meta network state where it's designed

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around creating the network first identity in people, which manifests in really tech

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kind of forward ideas about fitness.

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He said, Brian Johnson's Don't Die.

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I mean, that's a really tech forward vision of employing the latest, most advanced science

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and tech to build out people's health.

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And so I like that a lot.

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But I also like, you know, mentioning COVID as kind of a foundational moment for the network state.

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I think it's really good because there's something about the, you know, the type of citizen that's going to inhabit a certain state has a particular type of psychology.

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In the God-oriented state, you have a particular type of person.

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In the state-oriented nation state of nowadays, you have another type.

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what we saw in COVID is that people are already networks people are not islands people are already

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the connections they have with other people and this is a point Balaji mentions that

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objects like the internet has kind of illuminated what objects are it's shown us that books are not

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paper and covers that's not a necessary essence of books right and music is not a cd or something

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like that the digital has dematerialized and changed to use the five dollar word the ontology

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of objects it's also changed the anthropology of humans humans are not like this physically

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bounded thing we see in the mirror not this you know hairless ape or whatever we are commute we

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are networks inherently um like our you know even when you see facebook like the representation of

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what a human is. The human in Facebook is not the profile of that human. It's the connection that

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that profile has to other profiles. It is the network aspect. And I think that that's really

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cool. And that Bology is giving us a new idea of a state, but also giving us a new anthropology of

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what it means to be human, which is to be a network. Yeah. I want to change my answer now.

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Go ahead. Shoot. I'm just going to riff a little bit on this. But so my new network society is

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going to be centered around uh music um it's going to so it's not i guess it's not going to be one

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so let me back that up if it's one guiding principle then i think because i was running

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and it's got to be it's got to be a moral innovation that is also a critique of the

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present society you're in okay so i would say um can can i can i somehow make creativity

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for sure yeah absolutely i think creativity as applied to as applied to arts so music and comedy

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creativity as applied to um as applied to how you live your every day of life how can i

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how can i make it so that um i don't have to turn on light switches i don't have to shut doors i can

355
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How can I brube Goldberg my existence into being this pieced together, brilliant, artistic cascade of thoughts and ideas?

356
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So yeah, I'm going to organize mine around creativity and around doing things a different way.

357
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Yeah, and I think you could historically present a critique of our modern society. And like he kind of does this with the digital Sabbath society where people agree, like their one commandment is we're going to have a dedicated digital Sabbath, we're all going to disconnect from the internet.

358
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for a day or two days or whatever.

359
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I mean, I think that gets you halfway

360
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towards a more creative society

361
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once people are disconnecting

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from the consensual hallucination

363
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that is actually projected

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by God-King emperors like Zuckerberg and Musk

365
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with now Twitter.

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I have to blame them for this.

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But yeah, once we're outside of the matrix

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that we see in our computer,

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we begin to become creative matrices ourselves,

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generating new realities.

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And I love that vision that if you could design a society around creativity, I'm thinking about what do I maximize? What are the most, what are the best feeling states of being that I generate? Those are when I'm feeling creative, I feel the best.

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And so to be most human, I could be part of a network state where it was about how do we all make ourselves work together to privilege creativity as the guiding principle.

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And then maybe we have a digital Sabbath.

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Maybe we talk about how exercise plays into that.

375
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Maybe we do all these things.

376
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But I love that vision for a startup network.

377
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network so much there's so much joy to be found in um the little things that you can do

378
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in your life to make it just a little better for yourself that the kind of like it's so much

379
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greater than the joy that you get from binging on a netflix show and consuming you know balji

380
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makes the point that this needs to be um uh focused around producing and not consuming

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and you know if you think about um you can watch a great movie you can read a great book you can do

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um you know you can you can uh you can have you can go to a restaurant and have a great meal

383
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but that stuff honestly it kind of pales in comparison to finding um a way to

384
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I don't know to rearrange your closet so that it's more conducive to how you live your life

385
00:37:40,818 --> 00:37:46,738
yeah you know I'm gonna I'm gonna order things so that I always know where everything is at so that

386
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I'm I'm able to grab this out and I only need this one thing I don't have to waste this brain

387
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bandwidth on everything else that's in my field of vision so that I only I don't like you can see

388
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behind me, there's a, there's a mess because I'm, I'm, uh, I'm at my brother's place in Sacramento

389
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and I've been traveling. And so I've got all my stuff, um, that's just kind of like laying on the

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floor. And that's not how I, you know, I, I feel very out of my element because my, I have this

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driving desire to have things in the right place. And, um, you know, to have the night before to

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pull out the clothes for the next day so that you're not thinking about, um, what, what do I

393
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have to wear? Where is it? Um, does this match this and stuff like that? So I think that, yeah,

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I think that the creativity and creativity, creativity, I think really does trend towards,

395
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um, reversing entropy. Um, and, uh, it, it, you know, creative chaos typically seems to result

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in creative order. And, um, and so I think, yeah, that would be my, my driving. Do you have a,

397
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do you have a driving principle, uh, a moral, a moral guide that you would use to base your

398
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newly formed grant mustached, uh, bespeckled society? Yeah. Um,

399
00:39:22,718 --> 00:39:27,678
thinking on this, I was thinking about this before, and I was going to ask you this question.

400
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And I was like, what if he turns the tables on me?

401
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That would be the most terrible thing in the world.

402
00:39:30,898 --> 00:39:32,058
Be put on the spot like that.

403
00:39:32,979 --> 00:39:40,718
By the way, that's like the sign of a good question, though, is that you ask it because you want someone to answer it, not because you have an answer that you want to give.

404
00:39:40,939 --> 00:39:41,998
So kudos to you.

405
00:39:41,998 --> 00:39:47,118
Yeah, or someone that's so bad you vindictively say, well, how would you answer that question?

406
00:39:47,338 --> 00:39:48,358
Like how unfair is that?

407
00:39:48,358 --> 00:39:59,498
No, but I do think that like I have trouble distilling down to one moral innovation, some vision I would like to propagate in the world.

408
00:39:59,498 --> 00:40:02,198
And I like what you said about creativity.

409
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I think maybe that's one level of generality, abstraction, too much to be a one commandment because it's not like it's a moral innovation to creativity.

410
00:40:13,818 --> 00:40:18,638
but it's perhaps so abstract that people could substantiate it in like opposing ways.

411
00:40:18,638 --> 00:40:24,318
Even if you have to design the architecture for a society, you don't want that dissension.

412
00:40:24,558 --> 00:40:29,459
You want your moral commandment to be clean enough, I think, where you join it, you know what you're getting.

413
00:40:30,278 --> 00:40:39,258
So I like that idea of creativity and thinking on like what type of network startup would I join

414
00:40:39,258 --> 00:40:42,898
that would take that from a level of abstraction

415
00:40:42,898 --> 00:40:45,358
down into a level of practical application.

416
00:40:45,798 --> 00:40:47,058
And I mentioned the digital Sabbath.

417
00:40:47,338 --> 00:40:50,398
I do like that because I've thought about, you know,

418
00:40:50,499 --> 00:40:52,298
disconnecting specific days in the week.

419
00:40:52,638 --> 00:40:55,459
And the reason it's tough to do that is because of the lack of coordination

420
00:40:55,459 --> 00:40:58,959
with other people not disconnecting and then expecting to be in contact.

421
00:40:58,959 --> 00:41:01,959
Your mom gets worried about you because you're not answering text messages.

422
00:41:02,158 --> 00:41:03,378
Your work has got a question.

423
00:41:03,838 --> 00:41:07,058
All of these things that through coordination you solve those.

424
00:41:07,058 --> 00:41:11,518
I don't know that that would be what is the moral innovation I would specifically want to propagate.

425
00:41:13,378 --> 00:41:15,058
But it's also –

426
00:41:15,058 --> 00:41:31,538
Some sort of like agreed upon lack of urgency or some sort of agreed upon forethought, like foresight.

427
00:41:31,538 --> 00:41:38,838
Like, hey, I'm not going, you know, like, it's not agreed upon expectations, maybe.

428
00:41:39,258 --> 00:41:39,538
Yeah.

429
00:41:40,439 --> 00:41:53,218
You know, like, you're talking about this, and you're making me think of, like, with my old job, we had a rule, rule, that if someone reached out to you, you had to reach back to them within 24 hours.

430
00:41:53,218 --> 00:41:59,738
But in actuality, the rule was, like, eight minutes, you know, or something like, yeah.

431
00:41:59,738 --> 00:42:10,838
I once got reprimanded by a higher authority within the company because it took me 24 minutes to respond to a message.

432
00:42:11,658 --> 00:42:14,979
And I was like, this is insane.

433
00:42:15,878 --> 00:42:18,038
A long shit takes that long.

434
00:42:19,919 --> 00:42:22,758
And we want people to have good long shits.

435
00:42:23,278 --> 00:42:25,198
A healthy power movement is very important.

436
00:42:25,618 --> 00:42:28,058
We don't want people power pooping their way through the world.

437
00:42:28,058 --> 00:42:29,318
No, that's not healthy.

438
00:42:29,738 --> 00:42:34,638
I cut you off, but keep going. If you can pick up the train of thought where I decided to derail it.

439
00:42:34,638 --> 00:42:56,919
What I'm trying to wind myself towards is a tension I feel in myself, and I raised this last time, between the idea of a nation state that arises organically and an identity you don't choose, and the importance of unchosen identities for generating real moral obligation, and the idea of a network state which is very chosen, intentionally created, non-organic in that sense.

440
00:42:56,919 --> 00:43:26,298
I think Balaji, he's conscious to that. That's why he has this chapter about history. It's very important to create some organic extension from the past to your startup, right? You need to have that historical thread that ties everything together and prevents it from being just this new like, hey, I got an idea. Why don't we do it this way? It's like, no, this idea has arisen because current historical conditions are so bad for these reasons. This is the society we live in. Here's historical antecedents of that.

441
00:43:26,298 --> 00:43:42,999
It's an organic story that then even maybe gets you to join the startup because you feel impelled to by those unchosen identities you have by, you know, the person who you are and not just some like abstract creation of the person you think you should be.

442
00:43:43,078 --> 00:43:47,018
It's like you can't just change your gender by saying I am the other gender.

443
00:43:47,178 --> 00:43:51,678
You can't just be a member of a new society by saying, I like this thing.

444
00:43:51,678 --> 00:43:54,518
You really do need that history to back it up.

445
00:43:54,518 --> 00:44:16,919
And that's, I see how Balaji is trying to resolve these things by, you know, giving this notion of history. But again, I just don't, it's just very tough for me because I don't see that reconciliation happening as neatly as he describes it.

446
00:44:16,919 --> 00:44:22,078
And I do feel like we do belong to the unchosen things.

447
00:44:22,538 --> 00:44:32,698
I have moral obligations by virtue of being a brother, a son, a male of working age in a society, things like that.

448
00:44:32,698 --> 00:44:41,518
I think all of these things have generated obligations in me to protect and preserve the place where I'm from, the people I'm around.

449
00:44:41,518 --> 00:45:07,919
And so the idea of consciously choosing new identities is a little bit tough for me. But again, I think Balaji's right, because I do think the correct way to construct a network startup is to have a deep connection with history so that it's a logical extension of who you are, and not some gulf, some declaration of I am a new type of person without historical antecedent.

450
00:45:07,919 --> 00:45:12,278
does that make sense is kind of like trying to just trying to illustrate my tension about like

451
00:45:12,278 --> 00:45:18,459
why network why this consciously created network society is difficult for me when i feel myself to

452
00:45:18,459 --> 00:45:24,718
be an unconsciously created human being yeah i think that so when you're talking i was thinking

453
00:45:24,718 --> 00:45:30,538
you know if you're posed with the question who would you be if you could be anyone the obvious

454
00:45:30,538 --> 00:45:36,338
answer i think is i would be awesome yeah i would be i would just be awesome but what is awesome well

455
00:45:36,338 --> 00:45:43,018
For you to define awesome, you kind of have to go to history.

456
00:45:43,298 --> 00:45:45,939
You have to go to, well, who are my heroes?

457
00:45:46,499 --> 00:45:51,718
And who are the people that have lived a life that I think is awesome?

458
00:45:52,959 --> 00:45:58,459
I think it's awesome for somebody to be able to pick up a guitar and make someone cry.

459
00:45:58,758 --> 00:46:00,158
Or make someone laugh.

460
00:46:00,298 --> 00:46:01,398
Or make someone smile.

461
00:46:01,398 --> 00:46:06,479
with whatever ability that they're able to put into that and let it flow.

462
00:46:06,479 --> 00:46:13,138
I think it's awesome to see someone walk forward with a smile

463
00:46:13,138 --> 00:46:19,118
to greet their wife, their children, their family, their friends,

464
00:46:19,638 --> 00:46:46,857
and to be completely untethered to any sort of obligation but to do it out of do it out of excitement and joy um i think that yeah i think that it awesome for someone to be able to uh be be generous um with other people

465
00:46:46,857 --> 00:46:53,417
and and you know generous with their time generous with their resources yeah um you know that that to

466
00:46:53,417 --> 00:47:02,037
me is awesome. Um, I think, you know, just all of those, all of these little things that I think

467
00:47:02,037 --> 00:47:07,497
about, like, what are, what are the awesome things that I've done in my life? Um, you know, big,

468
00:47:07,497 --> 00:47:16,537
big hikes, um, a camping trip, um, uh, the feeling that you get after you've beat yourself to pieces

469
00:47:16,537 --> 00:47:22,657
in the gym and you've got like nothing left. Like those are awesome feelings, um, overcoming

470
00:47:22,657 --> 00:47:28,117
something and overcoming i think is a is a really big thing as well so like if i were to be

471
00:47:28,117 --> 00:47:34,537
if i were to be and and yeah if i were to choose something like what what does it mean to be

472
00:47:34,537 --> 00:47:39,117
awesome it would mean that i would have the capability to overcome the things that

473
00:47:39,117 --> 00:47:45,157
make me not awesome yeah and so that you know that again kind of goes back to this

474
00:47:45,157 --> 00:47:49,177
focus on growth.

475
00:47:49,657 --> 00:47:49,857
Yeah.

476
00:47:50,497 --> 00:47:52,017
You know, EAC, right?

477
00:47:52,097 --> 00:47:53,137
Effective acceleration.

478
00:47:53,337 --> 00:47:55,177
I think accelerationism or, you know,

479
00:47:55,257 --> 00:47:58,637
it's like growing more than what you are.

480
00:47:58,637 --> 00:48:01,017
No, I think, again, as an abstraction,

481
00:48:01,297 --> 00:48:02,357
growing creativity,

482
00:48:02,857 --> 00:48:04,397
and even as a one level abstraction

483
00:48:04,397 --> 00:48:05,597
on top of that awesomeness,

484
00:48:05,657 --> 00:48:06,937
these are all guiding principles.

485
00:48:07,777 --> 00:48:09,677
It's just, you know, rubber hits the road.

486
00:48:09,877 --> 00:48:11,717
What does it mean to embody those practically

487
00:48:11,717 --> 00:48:15,097
into an app that is the first stage

488
00:48:15,097 --> 00:48:20,517
of a network state, like just a network startup. And I know you've worked on this, Lucas, like you

489
00:48:20,517 --> 00:48:28,057
have consciously thought about what it might take to align yourself to all of your life in a really

490
00:48:28,057 --> 00:48:31,717
conscious and intentional way. And I do, I mean, I think like the creation of an app that you

491
00:48:31,717 --> 00:48:36,737
download and then use day to day in a way to improve yourself. I mean, that's the first step

492
00:48:36,737 --> 00:48:41,897
of a network state is just like a network startup, right? It's just like a startup with a tech

493
00:48:41,897 --> 00:48:45,877
innovation that's leading towards a moral principle that you want to see increase in the world.

494
00:48:46,477 --> 00:48:54,077
And so if you, like me, still have some difficulty with joining a network state,

495
00:48:54,317 --> 00:49:02,257
you can still see the value of a network startup because you do see the value in joining a highly

496
00:49:02,257 --> 00:49:08,317
aligned community of people who are aligned around that moral innovation that you want to

497
00:49:08,317 --> 00:49:11,697
see in yourself. Maybe it's learning a language, maybe something very specific and tractable like

498
00:49:11,697 --> 00:49:15,997
that, a community that you joined for a specific time or something like that.

499
00:49:16,097 --> 00:49:18,837
But did you want to mention that in more detail, Lucas?

500
00:49:19,077 --> 00:49:24,277
You did work on an app, and I do think it's a good example of what a startup, the first

501
00:49:24,277 --> 00:49:30,857
stage of network state, again, just that kind of embryonic form, a network startup, how it

502
00:49:30,857 --> 00:49:37,117
begins with the moral idea that then becomes, you put it in tech to try to help people embody

503
00:49:37,117 --> 00:49:37,417
that.

504
00:49:38,517 --> 00:49:39,397
Yeah, sure.

505
00:49:39,397 --> 00:49:54,577
So the quick, or hopefully quick, background was, like, during COVID, I lost everything that I had in terms of I didn't have a work community, I didn't have a gym community, and I didn't have my music community.

506
00:49:54,777 --> 00:50:04,297
And those were the three things that I really, my identity was truly based upon, because your identity is, you know, we are what we repeatedly do.

507
00:50:04,297 --> 00:50:13,657
So if you get up and you go to work and you're around those people and you go to the gym and you're around those people and you go play music and you're around those people, that becomes your identity.

508
00:50:14,377 --> 00:50:16,797
And with lockdowns, that was taken away.

509
00:50:17,357 --> 00:50:22,197
So during lockdown, the first thing I did was I went and I saw family.

510
00:50:22,537 --> 00:50:25,837
I lived on a sailboat in Florida for three weeks.

511
00:50:26,937 --> 00:50:31,797
And then I went to Colorado and I hiked mountains for like three months.

512
00:50:31,797 --> 00:50:35,677
And I didn't design what I was doing.

513
00:50:36,017 --> 00:50:38,157
It came about very naturally.

514
00:50:38,857 --> 00:50:57,597
But what happened was that I very naturally fell into this rhythm of getting up very early, going to bed early, being physically active every day, learning every day, reading every day, and being social.

515
00:50:58,397 --> 00:51:01,497
Reaching out to other people and being social.

516
00:51:01,797 --> 00:51:11,077
And so I, um, that, that was wonderful. It was like the, the most peaceful, uh, growth oriented,

517
00:51:11,077 --> 00:51:18,157
healthy, well-adjusted time of my life. And then when we were called back to the office,

518
00:51:18,717 --> 00:51:27,357
um, immediately, um, fell into, uh, what was, I would say misdiagnosed as ADHD. Um,

519
00:51:27,357 --> 00:51:33,617
But was was actually just, you know, depression, just being pulled away from those things.

520
00:51:33,617 --> 00:51:40,317
And so I was seeking a way around that, a way to go back to whatever that was.

521
00:51:40,437 --> 00:51:47,017
And one of the things that I had noticed was that I I had started to journal a lot.

522
00:51:47,017 --> 00:52:03,017
And so I wanted to combine the, I wanted to combine a journal and a workout tracker and a scheduler and a journal, workout tracker, scheduler.

523
00:52:03,237 --> 00:52:06,677
And basically, yeah, that's pretty much it.

524
00:52:06,677 --> 00:52:23,617
And it was all based around this idea of we are what we repeatedly do, rituals, these rituals that make us who we are, that define us as, oh, you know, that's the person who's up at 5 a.m. drinking a cup of coffee, watching the sunrise.

525
00:52:23,617 --> 00:52:39,197
That's the person who every week is out taking care of their garden and making a consistent effort to reverse entropy in their life.

526
00:52:39,377 --> 00:52:47,857
And so it was a big challenge, obviously, for somebody who didn't have any coding experience.

527
00:52:47,857 --> 00:52:57,597
However, as of now, I don't know if you've seen the Replit agent, which is a company, one of the companies that Andreessen invested in.

528
00:52:58,697 --> 00:53:03,137
You can just talk to it and it will help you create an app.

529
00:53:03,437 --> 00:53:12,637
And so I'm very hopeful to be able to finish that because what I realized during that time was that one of the things that I tracked was my screen time.

530
00:53:12,637 --> 00:53:16,177
And I got my screen time down to under like 30 minutes a day.

531
00:53:17,857 --> 00:53:22,377
And it was, again, this was a very, it was just happenstance.

532
00:53:22,757 --> 00:53:26,557
I forgot my headphones and I was too cheap to buy new ones.

533
00:53:26,977 --> 00:53:33,597
And so I just, you know, I wasn't constantly taking in media, taking in content.

534
00:53:34,657 --> 00:53:41,817
And I realized that if I wasn't using my phone for that, and I also didn't have to do all these other things with it, that I could just shut it off.

535
00:53:42,057 --> 00:53:45,257
And I could turn it on and check it whenever I need.

536
00:53:45,257 --> 00:53:45,677
Wait, wait, wait.

537
00:53:45,717 --> 00:53:47,897
You can just shut it off.

538
00:53:48,117 --> 00:53:48,737
Oh, yeah.

539
00:53:48,817 --> 00:53:49,437
They have it off.

540
00:53:49,517 --> 00:53:50,217
They have a power button.

541
00:53:50,397 --> 00:53:51,877
I did not even know these things turned off.

542
00:53:51,997 --> 00:53:54,357
I thought you wait until they die and they just kind of like, oh, got to recharge it.

543
00:53:55,037 --> 00:53:56,257
Yeah, that's what most people do.

544
00:53:56,457 --> 00:53:56,637
Yeah.

545
00:53:56,977 --> 00:54:01,257
But no, you can squeeze it and then punch it and it'll go away.

546
00:54:01,257 --> 00:54:07,197
So I think that you're like – the app that you designed is like – it really integrates well into the idea of a network state.

547
00:54:07,337 --> 00:54:10,997
The network state begins as this startup society with moral innovation.

548
00:54:10,997 --> 00:54:15,957
and the next stage is the network archipelago where you begin to be geographically dispersed

549
00:54:15,957 --> 00:54:20,637
you're a highly aligned community that begins in the cloud and then like has geographical

550
00:54:20,637 --> 00:54:26,337
materialization around the world what happens when you travel to different places you lose the

551
00:54:26,337 --> 00:54:31,417
routines that make you who you are and so if you can take those routines with you in your pocket

552
00:54:31,417 --> 00:54:37,557
in a sense that's a huge innovation that enables people to become citizens of the world of the

553
00:54:37,557 --> 00:54:41,157
not citizens of the world, citizens of a network state that is geographically dispersed,

554
00:54:41,157 --> 00:54:46,817
they can move around and yet maintain some integrity of identity, some coherency,

555
00:54:46,817 --> 00:54:49,457
because they bring with them the habits that make them who they are.

556
00:54:49,777 --> 00:54:51,377
Hopefully the good habits, right? You put those in there.

557
00:54:51,737 --> 00:54:56,797
Yeah, because it's so easy to, you know, we are creatures of our environment.

558
00:54:56,797 --> 00:55:01,677
And so whatever environment you're in, you are going to adopt.

559
00:55:01,797 --> 00:55:06,177
I mentioned this before, but one of my favorite quotes is by James Clear,

560
00:55:06,177 --> 00:55:15,077
from Atomic Habits that he's never seen someone consistently maintain good habits in a bad

561
00:55:15,077 --> 00:55:20,957
environment. And so you have to, A, be very conscious about the environment that you're

562
00:55:20,957 --> 00:55:25,937
putting yourself in, but B, once you're in that environment that does allow you to,

563
00:55:27,537 --> 00:55:35,217
it does kind of reinforce good habits, then you have to be conscious about what are these habits

564
00:55:35,217 --> 00:55:37,077
that I want to instill,

565
00:55:37,497 --> 00:55:39,677
these habits that I want to maintain and grow

566
00:55:39,677 --> 00:55:40,977
and move forward with.

567
00:55:41,197 --> 00:55:41,837
So, yeah.

568
00:55:42,837 --> 00:55:48,057
And that's important for a person like me

569
00:55:48,057 --> 00:55:50,497
who very much does,

570
00:55:50,837 --> 00:55:52,577
like I say it was misdiagnosed,

571
00:55:52,757 --> 00:55:56,117
but very much does have like ADHD tendencies.

572
00:55:56,777 --> 00:55:58,557
And so, you know, very creative person

573
00:55:58,557 --> 00:56:01,597
who is like drawn toward in different directions.

574
00:56:01,597 --> 00:56:03,397
And if you're that,

575
00:56:03,397 --> 00:56:09,997
then you can very easily be drawn in too many directions and yeah when you're drawn in too many

576
00:56:09,997 --> 00:56:14,977
directions you're considering too many possibilities when you're considering too many possibilities you

577
00:56:14,977 --> 00:56:24,037
have anxiety and so that um anxiety is something that uh will make a person stand still uh when

578
00:56:24,037 --> 00:56:28,937
they should be moving anxiety is the thing that keeps the frog in the water as it's boiling yeah

579
00:56:28,937 --> 00:56:36,597
Um, and, and so you, you look to people who are, um, and you're a great example of this,

580
00:56:36,657 --> 00:56:42,057
you know, so when we, when we shared, when we shared a living space, um, you know, very,

581
00:56:42,717 --> 00:56:47,317
you don't want to say regimented because regimented makes it sound as though it's not

582
00:56:47,317 --> 00:56:47,817
enjoyable.

583
00:56:48,017 --> 00:56:50,177
Regimented makes it sound as though it's enforced.

584
00:56:50,177 --> 00:56:57,857
Um, but very, um, just, uh, true to, uh, what, what you're going to do.

585
00:56:57,857 --> 00:57:05,017
you know these are the things that I'm going to do I'm going to do them with gusto and joy

586
00:57:05,017 --> 00:57:11,137
I'm going to do them before I do the other things that are calling for my attention because I know

587
00:57:11,137 --> 00:57:17,497
that these are the things that are the building blocks of my resiliency my ability to withstand

588
00:57:17,497 --> 00:57:28,377
change. So you, you kind of have to, you kind of have to force some sort of, or force or put in

589
00:57:28,377 --> 00:57:35,537
play some sort of ritualized approach in order to give yourself the resiliency to withstand change.

590
00:57:36,097 --> 00:57:43,517
You have to, you have to do the same thing over in order to resist entropy. Yeah. So, and give

591
00:57:43,517 --> 00:57:47,957
yourself. Yeah. Give yourself openings for that. No, I think these are all really, this is a really

592
00:57:47,957 --> 00:57:51,937
relevant conversation to the network state in that, like when you begin to think about what it

593
00:57:51,937 --> 00:57:55,897
means to be a citizen of a state that you're consciously choosing in that state is designed

594
00:57:55,897 --> 00:58:01,677
around the moral innovation, you have to ask, who am I? What are my flaws? Who do I want to be?

595
00:58:01,757 --> 00:58:06,297
Who is my ideal self? You called that awesomeness, just like that ideal version of myself that it

596
00:58:06,297 --> 00:58:11,657
could be if I was fully deployed along every front. Another aspect of this chapter I wanted

597
00:58:11,657 --> 00:58:18,517
to get your take on. So, you know, Bitcoin is what brought us into this book. And it is a worthy

598
00:58:18,517 --> 00:58:24,657
study to expand one's consideration of what Bitcoin can do to the idea of the nation state

599
00:58:24,657 --> 00:58:31,797
of statehood. What do you think of this idea of Bitcoin as a truth chain as this thing that

600
00:58:31,797 --> 00:58:37,497
is the cryptographically verifiable ledger for the cryptographically verifiable history

601
00:58:37,497 --> 00:58:41,677
for a specific network state where you update it onto the ledger.

602
00:58:42,197 --> 00:58:44,197
That's the version of history that's canonical,

603
00:58:45,157 --> 00:58:46,897
except for to the extent that you're using,

604
00:58:47,277 --> 00:58:51,157
you don't facially accept everything just because it's on the blockchain,

605
00:58:51,157 --> 00:58:53,717
but you then, when it's on the blockchain,

606
00:58:53,917 --> 00:58:58,497
are able to evaluate primacy and time and see who it's from,

607
00:58:58,617 --> 00:59:00,297
who is cryptographically signed by,

608
00:59:00,497 --> 00:59:04,637
other things that give you an ability to begin to excavate the truth of a notion.

609
00:59:04,637 --> 00:59:15,497
So, I mean, do you think that there's some, you know, substance to this, that Bitcoin will serve as a necessary aspect of this idea of a network state?

610
00:59:15,497 --> 00:59:26,397
Yeah, I do think it's important to clarify that, you know, there's the Bitcoin, not blockchain, there's the blockchain, not Bitcoin people.

611
00:59:26,397 --> 00:59:38,197
But this is more of the the only way that this idea really has validity is the proof of work part of of the blockchain of Bitcoin.

612
00:59:38,197 --> 00:59:46,777
because what we're saying is that it's not necessarily true

613
00:59:46,777 --> 00:59:49,517
if it's on the Bitcoin blockchain,

614
00:59:49,757 --> 00:59:52,857
if you decide that it's worth the cost of a transaction

615
00:59:52,857 --> 00:59:56,457
in order to put something on there,

616
00:59:56,637 --> 00:59:58,617
to put the photo on there,

617
00:59:58,777 --> 01:00:02,797
to put the news story on there,

618
01:00:02,877 --> 01:00:03,817
to put something on there.

619
01:00:03,817 --> 01:00:05,977
It's not necessarily true.

620
01:00:05,977 --> 01:00:17,537
however because there is a cost to it um then we we like why do you lie like you lie because you

621
01:00:17,537 --> 01:00:23,517
think you can get away with it you don't you if there was a cost to lying if you knew the cost

622
01:00:23,517 --> 01:00:31,677
of sullying your soul of um the of the future repercussions of not telling the truth you probably

623
01:00:31,677 --> 01:00:37,757
wouldn't do it. If you knew, if you could feel at that moment, what it was going to feel like to be

624
01:00:37,757 --> 01:00:46,397
exposed, then you probably wouldn't do it. And so that's kind of what the cost of putting something

625
01:00:46,397 --> 01:00:54,057
on a proof of work blockchain resembles. So I really was excited about rereading this part,

626
01:00:54,117 --> 01:00:59,937
because I didn't really get it the first time that I read this, like two, a year, year, about a year

627
01:00:59,937 --> 01:01:07,337
ago, year and a half ago. But Bitcoin's blockchain is a technology for robust macro history.

628
01:01:08,037 --> 01:01:17,297
And so what we're talking about here is that Bitcoin is the best source of truth that we

629
01:01:17,297 --> 01:01:24,937
have. And it's the best source of truth because it, to our knowledge, cannot be altered without

630
01:01:24,937 --> 01:01:27,537
without a very large cost.

631
01:01:28,597 --> 01:01:40,337
And there exists in people a desire to not lose,

632
01:01:40,697 --> 01:01:44,537
to not lose in order to maintain a lie.

633
01:01:44,537 --> 01:01:50,917
Like, again, you wouldn't lie, you wouldn't do something untrustworthy

634
01:01:50,917 --> 01:01:58,697
if you were faced with the cost of what that lie would ultimately impart upon you.

635
01:01:58,697 --> 01:02:06,857
And so what the proof-of-work aspect of the Bitcoin blockchain allows us here

636
01:02:06,857 --> 01:02:18,197
is an unimpeachable, true, or at least costly history.

637
01:02:18,197 --> 01:02:38,817
And so if we have a costly history, if we have something that closely resembles truth or is at least not untrue, then we are able to have a much more clear picture of what our past is.

638
01:02:38,817 --> 01:02:54,277
And that's going through this chapter at the same time that the Department of Government Efficiency is posting all of these things that they have found.

639
01:02:54,717 --> 01:03:08,297
All of these payments to, you know, nine out of ten media outlets in Ukraine were funded by USAID.

640
01:03:08,817 --> 01:03:16,677
So do we really think that we were getting accurate news out of USAID or do we think that we're out of Ukraine?

641
01:03:17,037 --> 01:03:25,517
Or do we think that we're, is it more likely that we were getting news that aligned with whoever ultimately was writing the check?

642
01:03:26,917 --> 01:03:31,117
And I get, I'm sorry, not ultimately, ultimately giving the money.

643
01:03:31,277 --> 01:03:33,457
The taxpayers were ultimately writing the check.

644
01:03:35,977 --> 01:03:37,637
But if you can.

645
01:03:37,637 --> 01:03:39,517
I don't think the taxpayers are writing the check.

646
01:03:39,657 --> 01:03:41,257
Future generations are writing the check.

647
01:03:41,337 --> 01:03:42,257
They don't tax us, right?

648
01:03:42,397 --> 01:03:43,077
They inflate.

649
01:03:44,117 --> 01:03:45,017
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

650
01:03:45,017 --> 01:03:46,517
It's money that doesn't exist today.

651
01:03:46,517 --> 01:03:46,717
Right.

652
01:03:46,957 --> 01:03:47,217
So, yeah.

653
01:03:47,817 --> 01:03:54,837
So, yeah, it's just – it makes it resistant to the rewriting of history.

654
01:03:55,057 --> 01:03:56,897
Yeah, could you – go ahead.

655
01:03:57,517 --> 01:04:07,177
I was just going to say that the revision of history is something that is – it's very dangerous.

656
01:04:07,177 --> 01:04:13,977
because it allows us to whitewash the things that got us to the point where we are,

657
01:04:14,497 --> 01:04:19,937
which the thing that got us to the point where we are was that there was something that was bad enough

658
01:04:19,937 --> 01:04:24,777
that the pain of change was less than the pain of staying the same.

659
01:04:25,617 --> 01:04:28,457
And so we moved past that.

660
01:04:28,597 --> 01:04:29,837
We fought against something.

661
01:04:29,977 --> 01:04:30,737
We did something.

662
01:04:30,737 --> 01:04:42,037
but when we rewrite this history to leave out all of the bad things um then we just move closer

663
01:04:42,037 --> 01:04:47,337
and closer and closer to going back to whatever it was that we're trying to get away from

664
01:04:47,337 --> 01:04:54,797
um he makes the point that what you know there there really isn't a whole lot of difference

665
01:04:54,797 --> 01:05:00,637
when you zoom out and look at it as the institutionalized power of the state of the

666
01:05:00,637 --> 01:05:08,497
USSR and how it was justified by its own history in the same way that the institutionalized

667
01:05:08,497 --> 01:05:11,717
power of the United States has been justified by its own history.

668
01:05:12,357 --> 01:05:14,977
And its own history is not accurate history.

669
01:05:15,197 --> 01:05:19,437
Its own history is carefully curated, carefully chosen history.

670
01:05:19,677 --> 01:05:19,877
Yeah.

671
01:05:19,997 --> 01:05:20,677
So, yeah.

672
01:05:20,817 --> 01:05:21,397
What were you going to say?

673
01:05:21,397 --> 01:05:24,597
I wanted to expand on one of the notions you mentioned at the outset.

674
01:05:24,797 --> 01:05:29,557
You said macro history and you had a quote about Bitcoin helping to constitute macro history.

675
01:05:29,657 --> 01:05:30,297
Can you read that again?

676
01:05:30,357 --> 01:05:30,957
Do you have that ready?

677
01:05:31,477 --> 01:05:34,257
I wanted to expand on that specifically if you have that verbiage.

678
01:05:35,177 --> 01:05:36,997
You're talking about the Bitcoin block.

679
01:05:37,197 --> 01:05:40,337
Bitcoin's blockchain is a technology for robust macro history.

680
01:05:40,537 --> 01:05:40,837
Yes.

681
01:05:40,937 --> 01:05:41,897
Is that what you're talking about?

682
01:05:42,237 --> 01:05:46,437
That's the title of the subsection there.

683
01:05:46,657 --> 01:05:46,837
Yep.

684
01:05:46,837 --> 01:05:54,117
And so this idea of macro history, Bology has a section called micro history versus macro history.

685
01:05:54,117 --> 01:06:01,397
micro history is history on a small enough scale with few enough variables that it becomes a

686
01:06:01,397 --> 01:06:07,057
reproducible system where you could go back see what went wrong run new versions of that and

687
01:06:07,057 --> 01:06:13,137
improve upon it the like an example might be um he gives example like at the most basic a chess game

688
01:06:13,137 --> 01:06:17,357
is a reproducible thing because you can go back a certain number of moves and then run the game

689
01:06:17,357 --> 01:06:23,357
again to see how it would have played out differently macro history this now becomes a

690
01:06:23,357 --> 01:06:29,457
thing where there are too many variables it's not reproducible bitcoin then how that makes for a

691
01:06:29,457 --> 01:06:36,117
robust macro history is more the more and more information you begin to accumulate um between

692
01:06:36,117 --> 01:06:43,997
people and make into a solid robust history once all transactions are on chain once sub chains are

693
01:06:43,997 --> 01:06:51,217
you have say you have like a sub chain that records everybody's data regarding like um continuous

694
01:06:51,217 --> 01:06:57,077
glucose monitoring under different conditions so the reactions to sugar once that's all part of

695
01:06:57,077 --> 01:07:02,557
you know you bootstrap that onto the blockchain by updating a sub chain onto that you create this

696
01:07:02,557 --> 01:07:09,417
then biology thinks a fuller version of history based on like really minute data about people

697
01:07:09,417 --> 01:07:15,477
and how they're reacting to things so if you begin to build a macro history based on this micro

698
01:07:15,477 --> 01:07:20,377
history through this robust accumulation of cryptographically verifiable data and you know

699
01:07:20,377 --> 01:07:36,777
then macro history becomes something where maybe it's not a fully reproducible system, but you begin to see more patterns and begin better able to act on your historical predictions because you have a more robust data set to build your predictions upon.

700
01:07:36,777 --> 01:07:51,597
And Bitcoin can help us do that again because we can begin to collect a bunch of data and then have some way at least to ensure that it's the canonical version of it because it's time stamped and on the blockchain.

701
01:07:52,717 --> 01:07:53,757
I just want to note that.

702
01:07:54,037 --> 01:07:54,877
And I don't even know.

703
01:07:55,177 --> 01:08:00,777
It's interesting that microhistory versus macrohistory, biology does seem – it's a question I kind of have for you.

704
01:08:00,917 --> 01:08:02,697
Is history predictable?

705
01:08:02,697 --> 01:08:07,337
Can we ever get to like a law-like statement of past events such that we can predict the future?

706
01:08:07,777 --> 01:08:09,977
I don't think Balaji thinks that it's perfectly predictable.

707
01:08:10,157 --> 01:08:10,977
There's too many variables.

708
01:08:11,277 --> 01:08:19,557
But he does, again, think that history has this cyclical and helical structure where you can see past the cyclical nature of history.

709
01:08:19,837 --> 01:08:27,396
He discusses the fourth turning in that vein that history – he gives different versions of the cyclical nature of history.

710
01:08:27,396 --> 01:08:33,137
There's that kind of basic statement that many of us have heard that strong men create good times.

711
01:08:33,737 --> 01:08:37,237
Strong men create good times.

712
01:08:37,557 --> 01:08:39,317
Good times create weak men.

713
01:08:39,457 --> 01:08:40,757
Weak men create hard times.

714
01:08:40,837 --> 01:08:42,097
Hard times create strong men.

715
01:08:42,617 --> 01:08:44,856
And so that's a cyclical version of history.

716
01:08:45,057 --> 01:08:50,856
You can then begin to predict how things are going to be in the future because you can see where you are at within that cyclical history.

717
01:08:50,856 --> 01:09:07,396
So I think Balaji does think that history enables us to make predictions about the future, but not as an exact science, I would say. I don't think he's saying that, but his notion of macro history kind of begins to blend the two. But I don't know.

718
01:09:08,257 --> 01:09:12,737
History, what do they say? History does not repeat, but it rhymes.

719
01:09:12,997 --> 01:09:14,137
There we go. That's a good way to put it.

720
01:09:14,137 --> 01:09:23,517
And so when you think about that cyclical helical structure, so think of the threads of a screw.

721
01:09:24,257 --> 01:09:24,477
Yeah.

722
01:09:26,337 --> 01:09:34,257
There is a point where when you're on this part of it, you're also aligned with this part up here.

723
01:09:34,617 --> 01:09:35,977
So the bottom is aligned with the top.

724
01:09:35,977 --> 01:09:38,237
Yeah, the bottom is aligned with the top.

725
01:09:38,337 --> 01:09:41,237
And by the way, it's not a different thread, right?

726
01:09:41,237 --> 01:09:44,997
when you look at a screw, there's one thread.

727
01:09:44,997 --> 01:09:58,375
Like people talk about oh you know if you or a bolt or something you know like I stripped the threads there actually just one thread There is one continuous cyclical helical structure that goes around it

728
01:09:58,375 --> 01:10:06,395
And so it is all related back down to where it came from.

729
01:10:06,655 --> 01:10:12,415
You know, history, you can't, I would not say that you can predict history.

730
01:10:12,415 --> 01:10:18,335
And he gives some examples of things that make it impossible.

731
01:10:19,415 --> 01:10:21,395
There's like the train wreck.

732
01:10:23,015 --> 01:10:23,415
Let's see.

733
01:10:23,555 --> 01:10:24,415
There's like the...

734
01:10:25,875 --> 01:10:30,015
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

735
01:10:30,375 --> 01:10:33,415
So you've got the...

736
01:10:33,975 --> 01:10:39,035
This leads a different set of tech folks analyzing history from different lenses.

737
01:10:39,035 --> 01:10:41,995
There's the technological determinist model.

738
01:10:42,415 --> 01:10:44,895
which is that technology is the driving force of history.

739
01:10:45,415 --> 01:10:48,835
There's the trajectory model, which is histories are trajectories.

740
01:10:49,035 --> 01:10:53,635
So you're going, you know, the first is saying that the technological model,

741
01:10:53,635 --> 01:10:56,215
which is saying that history changes when technology changes.

742
01:10:56,815 --> 01:10:59,535
The trajectory model, history or trajectories,

743
01:10:59,675 --> 01:11:02,775
that's saying that history moves in a certain direction.

744
01:11:03,895 --> 01:11:05,735
Then you've got the statistical model,

745
01:11:06,115 --> 01:11:09,975
which is that what happened in the past is likely to happen again.

746
01:11:09,975 --> 01:11:15,155
the helix model, this is the linear cyclical history, can coexist.

747
01:11:17,335 --> 01:11:22,115
The Ozymandias civilization can collapse.

748
01:11:22,355 --> 01:11:24,835
We are just the most advanced player in a video game, essentially.

749
01:11:25,315 --> 01:11:26,755
Others have lost a video game before.

750
01:11:26,895 --> 01:11:28,135
The Mayans, they screwed up.

751
01:11:28,295 --> 01:11:28,935
They game over.

752
01:11:29,435 --> 01:11:31,815
But we are the furthest ones to play it so far.

753
01:11:32,035 --> 01:11:33,315
Our civilization has not collapsed.

754
01:11:33,855 --> 01:11:36,255
That's like the tragedy, right?

755
01:11:37,255 --> 01:11:39,535
Yeah, kind of the tragedy model.

756
01:11:39,535 --> 01:11:44,715
the Linsky model, which is, this one was fascinating, which is based upon this, um,

757
01:11:44,935 --> 01:11:53,335
this experiment that a guy took a bacteria and he froze it. And, um, he conducted experiments,

758
01:11:53,335 --> 01:11:59,335
uh, to see where, how the bacteria would evolve. And then the ones that were frozen,

759
01:11:59,335 --> 01:12:06,635
um, so he left some frozen, some were not right. And then the ones that he had frozen later on,

760
01:12:06,635 --> 01:12:12,415
he unfroze those and they didn't have the same type of evolutionary path.

761
01:12:13,155 --> 01:12:18,595
And so it's not, that's not, what we're saying is like, that's not predictable.

762
01:12:18,855 --> 01:12:21,895
You can't, you can't predict, there are so many different variables.

763
01:12:22,095 --> 01:12:26,815
This is the combinatorial explosion that after you get like five variables,

764
01:12:27,035 --> 01:12:28,735
then it's just, it's too much.

765
01:12:28,895 --> 01:12:35,515
There's just, there's too many options for anybody to, maybe it's possible for AI.

766
01:12:35,515 --> 01:12:36,395
I don't know.

767
01:12:36,715 --> 01:12:36,895
Yeah.

768
01:12:37,275 --> 01:12:39,975
Another thing that was interesting about the Linsky model.

769
01:12:40,155 --> 01:12:42,135
So it was, I think, E. coli.

770
01:12:42,315 --> 01:12:45,635
And then he froze them at different states in their evolutionary history.

771
01:12:46,255 --> 01:12:47,575
Bacteria evolves quickly.

772
01:12:48,295 --> 01:12:52,155
Whatever reproduces the quickest at that moment is most evolutionarily fit.

773
01:12:52,255 --> 01:12:55,115
But he freezes it at different moments in its evolutionary journey.

774
01:12:55,115 --> 01:13:17,695
And then when you unfreeze one of the older stages and then reintroduce it, it's not that that older stage is not necessarily be outcompeted by the most latest stage. It was just outcompeted by some prior stage. So it's not like the where you see evolution or history at a certain point is the best, most fit version of history.

775
01:13:17,695 --> 01:13:27,815
It's like there are specific discrete points in history that were outcompeted by the next step, but that could have outcompeted like a further step down the road.

776
01:13:27,895 --> 01:13:32,215
So it's just an interesting way to look at history as like, oh, it's not just this giant bracket.

777
01:13:32,375 --> 01:13:35,755
We get to the winner and then everything before was inferior.

778
01:13:35,755 --> 01:13:53,075
Yeah, because we have this misled notion that whatever stage of human evolution we are at morally and societally, etc., we have this misled, misguided notion that that is the apex.

779
01:13:53,075 --> 01:13:58,595
that because we're here today and because today is the present and the past was in the past,

780
01:13:59,095 --> 01:14:02,035
that this is what is best.

781
01:14:02,155 --> 01:14:06,475
Because as you said, it's like, oh, we have this view of like it's a competition

782
01:14:06,475 --> 01:14:11,375
and what exists is what survived because what survived was strongest.

783
01:14:11,935 --> 01:14:14,715
That's very much not true.

784
01:14:14,715 --> 01:14:34,635
You know, I think there's very strong cases to be made that, you know, with regard to society as a binding force for people, that we've had moments in history that were far more evolutionarily evolved than we are today.

785
01:14:34,635 --> 01:14:39,875
where, you know, the village really did raise the children,

786
01:14:40,135 --> 01:14:45,935
where the people were much more tied to each other.

787
01:14:46,435 --> 01:14:50,295
And again, this is part of modern society,

788
01:14:50,435 --> 01:14:54,255
is that you can live in an apartment and never have to leave.

789
01:14:54,255 --> 01:14:56,575
Like, you don't need to go anywhere.

790
01:14:56,715 --> 01:14:58,195
You can have everything brought to you.

791
01:14:58,595 --> 01:15:00,015
You can have your food brought to you.

792
01:15:00,115 --> 01:15:02,655
You can have your entertainment beamed to you.

793
01:15:02,655 --> 01:15:09,115
You can get on your phone and beep bop beep and get some companionship if you want.

794
01:15:09,655 --> 01:15:20,015
So you don't have to depend on the rest of society to be part of your existence.

795
01:15:21,455 --> 01:15:27,715
And that has led us to a moral decay.

796
01:15:27,715 --> 01:15:37,335
a moral decay that has to be recognized in order to want to change and you know like people are

797
01:15:37,335 --> 01:15:42,775
suffering under the moral decay that we are living in right now and they're suffering because it's

798
01:15:42,775 --> 01:15:52,715
not satisfying it's not hurt it's not helping them and network states are a outcry of that system

799
01:15:52,715 --> 01:16:00,755
Network states are a flag being waved saying the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change.

800
01:16:00,755 --> 01:16:07,275
And so we are moving in a different direction because the one that we are currently living in is not serving us.

801
01:16:07,475 --> 01:16:09,715
So, yeah, that's really fascinating.

802
01:16:10,155 --> 01:16:18,115
The last two on these were the Linsky model, sorry, the train crash model is that those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

803
01:16:18,115 --> 01:16:38,655
It's like, yeah, you just, you, if you don't pay attention to how other people failed before, you're probably going to fail again, just like them, because they weren't planning to fail. Like, you have to realize that, like, they, they were probably doing the thing that seemed logical at the time, just like you're doing the thing that seems logical at the time.

804
01:16:38,655 --> 01:16:45,915
and then the last is the idea maze model which is that those who overfit to history will never

805
01:16:45,915 --> 01:16:52,035
invent the future so basically it's just if you only rely upon the past then you'll never move

806
01:16:52,035 --> 01:16:57,755
forward and so yeah really fascinating oh actually there's another one right jesus there's a whole

807
01:16:57,755 --> 01:17:02,495
bunch right fisher model yeah and what survives that's the one that we're talking about the right

808
01:17:02,495 --> 01:17:08,795
fisher model which is to say that um you know we live at the apex of morality just because we

809
01:17:08,795 --> 01:17:16,295
are alive yeah and so computation right too many another so more important than like defining all

810
01:17:16,295 --> 01:17:21,735
the specific historical lenses one could use to interpret the past it's i mean biology again a lot

811
01:17:21,735 --> 01:17:26,735
of times what he does is he gives a taxonomy of all the ways that one could do a thing he outlines

812
01:17:26,735 --> 01:17:31,775
a conceptual space of here are the different things so in the manner of a toolbox you can find

813
01:17:31,775 --> 01:17:37,355
these different historical lenses, pull one out, use it to analyze a current government agency,

814
01:17:37,515 --> 01:17:42,155
say the FDA, and then come to the conclusion that the way that we're regulating currently

815
01:17:42,155 --> 01:17:48,835
novel drugs is very harmful. And then you can use that historical story to create a startup society

816
01:17:48,835 --> 01:17:54,915
where you say, our moral innovation is, we are going to allow people to use drugs that they think

817
01:17:54,915 --> 01:17:59,875
are good for their health. And people can, you know, go in eyes wide open about the dangers of

818
01:17:59,875 --> 01:18:03,835
that, that's fine. And if you've had that historical story to talk about the failures

819
01:18:03,835 --> 01:18:09,455
of the FDA using one of those lenses, then that helps people to align themselves to your

820
01:18:09,455 --> 01:18:13,935
community because they see how, yeah, things are pretty, I mean, as you said, Lucas, moral

821
01:18:13,935 --> 01:18:20,155
decay, that's a common phenomena we think about or a common kind of way we have to put

822
01:18:20,155 --> 01:18:23,635
that notion into words that things aren't as good as they could be. And they're in fact

823
01:18:23,635 --> 01:18:27,675
getting worse. And here's the history behind that. Here's what we should change to make

824
01:18:27,675 --> 01:18:28,035
it better.

825
01:18:28,035 --> 01:18:51,415
Yeah. One question that I think, because as we've been going through this series and probably before this, one of the things that I think we find as a difference in our approaches is that I think I am very convinced that you do have to leave behind and build something new.

826
01:18:51,415 --> 01:18:59,615
and you've sort of elucidated that, you know, I have ties to these things.

827
01:18:59,715 --> 01:19:00,935
I want these things to exist.

828
01:19:01,155 --> 01:19:02,855
I want them to maintain.

829
01:19:03,155 --> 01:19:04,255
I want them to persevere.

830
01:19:06,395 --> 01:19:15,715
So I think we're living through right now what appears to not just be local,

831
01:19:15,715 --> 01:19:24,795
but truly kind of like a global, although not entirely global, in certain, you know, Argentina and the United States.

832
01:19:25,075 --> 01:19:31,995
And there's certain places in the world right now that are really making an effort to change direction.

833
01:19:32,835 --> 01:19:40,315
And in doing so, we are, I think you have a lot of people that are expressing hope

834
01:19:40,315 --> 01:19:46,515
and a lot of people that are expressing an approval of the new direction.

835
01:19:46,995 --> 01:19:50,895
And so my question to you then would be,

836
01:19:51,315 --> 01:19:54,275
when you do look at the global landscape,

837
01:19:54,895 --> 01:19:58,395
to whatever extent that you do,

838
01:19:59,055 --> 01:20:03,395
where do you find yourself landing in terms of,

839
01:20:03,395 --> 01:20:09,615
do I feel that this boat, can we bail the water out fast enough

840
01:20:09,615 --> 01:20:17,795
can we swim underneath and patch the holes in order to keep it moving so that it doesn't sink

841
01:20:17,795 --> 01:20:28,495
or do we simply jump off and grab all of the you know take the take the take the furniture that's

842
01:20:28,495 --> 01:20:35,595
useful take the pictures you know take the whatever fine bottle of wine is left and bring

843
01:20:35,595 --> 01:20:40,715
that along with us towards something new. Obviously, we're going to have a couple more

844
01:20:40,715 --> 01:20:49,555
discussions on this, but right now, what are your thoughts as Balaji has presented his thesis here?

845
01:20:50,235 --> 01:20:56,875
What are your thoughts to the potential for the current system to

846
01:20:56,875 --> 01:21:02,555
maintain a semblance of recognizability into the future?

847
01:21:02,555 --> 01:21:31,555
Yeah, and the way you framed this question, I think it's relevant to consider the transition between Leviathans from state to network because regardless of whether we balkanize, break up into a bunch of different network societies that are archipelagos around the world, even if that doesn't happen or happen with any sort of prevalence, we're still going to have the state transition into a network.

848
01:21:32,555 --> 01:21:34,515
be inflected more in the direction of networks.

849
01:21:34,715 --> 01:21:37,575
And so what that mean is kind of to be decided.

850
01:21:38,275 --> 01:21:40,855
But I do think that it's going to mean, like right now,

851
01:21:41,435 --> 01:21:44,255
the Department of Government Efficiency, or Musk himself at least,

852
01:21:44,295 --> 01:21:49,535
has suggested possibly putting some government department on the blockchain,

853
01:21:49,715 --> 01:21:54,335
on a blockchain, to make transparent and public all the transactions

854
01:21:54,335 --> 01:21:55,655
and things that are occurring.

855
01:21:56,195 --> 01:22:00,415
So I think that I do feel hopeful, if that's kind of what your question was getting at too,

856
01:22:00,415 --> 01:22:09,815
that even the state that we had is, if Leviathan is the state, it can transition to having the

857
01:22:09,815 --> 01:22:15,895
network be the Leviathan, the arbiter, the guiding principle, as we replace state institutions

858
01:22:15,895 --> 01:22:22,635
with networks. And in that way, there's not any one moment where suddenly you're the member of a

859
01:22:22,635 --> 01:22:29,335
new network state, and yet you have hollowed out and recreated the state itself into the network

860
01:22:29,335 --> 01:22:34,375
by changing the institutions one by one to be network inflected.

861
01:22:34,455 --> 01:22:36,215
So that's kind of the direction I see it going,

862
01:22:36,395 --> 01:22:39,575
is that we steadily StranglerVine style,

863
01:22:39,815 --> 01:22:43,515
wrap up the old system in a new StranglerVine

864
01:22:43,515 --> 01:22:46,395
that then leaches functionality out of the old system

865
01:22:46,395 --> 01:22:49,115
and migrates that functionality into a new system.

866
01:22:49,115 --> 01:22:53,075
So the state is replaced by a series of networks

867
01:22:53,075 --> 01:22:55,775
just because that's what's going to happen.

868
01:22:55,955 --> 01:22:58,275
Technological progress is going to show that

869
01:22:58,275 --> 01:23:03,015
if you want to have this moral progress of openness and transparency, you're going to need to move to

870
01:23:03,015 --> 01:23:08,935
decentralized networks. And so I guess that's where I'm at, where I think the modern state,

871
01:23:08,935 --> 01:23:15,315
as we see it, can update itself to state 2.0, which is the network state, without me having to

872
01:23:15,315 --> 01:23:23,215
join a network archipelago, network society, where I'm on some physical patch of land, but connected

873
01:23:23,215 --> 01:23:27,935
via statehood, network statehood, to somebody else who's currently a Mongolia or whatever.

874
01:23:28,275 --> 01:23:29,575
Not that there'd be anything wrong with that.

875
01:23:29,615 --> 01:23:30,115
It'd be fun.

876
01:23:30,215 --> 01:23:31,555
I just don't think that that's what's going to happen.

877
01:23:33,595 --> 01:23:36,655
I feel like we're, I don't know.

878
01:23:36,775 --> 01:23:38,415
To me, I feel like we're already there.

879
01:23:39,455 --> 01:23:41,075
It's just not really recognized.

880
01:23:41,075 --> 01:23:50,915
But people, we are in a stage of human history that is very ideological.

881
01:23:50,915 --> 01:24:04,355
and most people I think would not list their national affiliation as their top ideology

882
01:24:04,355 --> 01:24:11,375
or even if they would I think that the way that they live their life would would maybe

883
01:24:11,375 --> 01:24:13,595
insinuate otherwise.

884
01:24:15,375 --> 01:24:15,595
I think

885
01:24:15,595 --> 01:24:19,515
people align more with

886
01:24:19,515 --> 01:24:22,835
whatever the community...

887
01:24:22,835 --> 01:24:24,835
My brother works at a climbing gym.

888
01:24:25,915 --> 01:24:27,555
The gym, same gym

889
01:24:27,555 --> 01:24:29,575
that Alex Honnold learned how to

890
01:24:29,575 --> 01:24:31,335
climb at. That's in Portland, right?

891
01:24:31,855 --> 01:24:33,515
No, it's in Sacramento.

892
01:24:33,695 --> 01:24:34,695
Oh, I thought it was. Okay, cool.

893
01:24:35,695 --> 01:24:37,795
It's called Pipeworks.

894
01:24:38,295 --> 01:24:39,595
And the

895
01:24:39,595 --> 01:24:40,995
climbing community

896
01:24:40,995 --> 01:24:47,595
These are people that I would say very much identify as climbers.

897
01:24:48,075 --> 01:24:51,375
They probably don't identify as Californians.

898
01:24:51,575 --> 01:24:56,555
They probably don't identify, I mean, I'm sure they identify as Americans in some way.

899
01:24:57,255 --> 01:25:01,675
But, you know, it's what do you spend your time doing?

900
01:25:02,055 --> 01:25:09,435
And if you spend your time saying the Pledge of Allegiance and wearing an American flag shirt

901
01:25:09,435 --> 01:25:14,995
and going to parades and watching the president on TV,

902
01:25:15,195 --> 01:25:18,755
then you probably do identify as an American.

903
01:25:18,755 --> 01:25:22,115
But if you spend your time winding rope

904
01:25:22,115 --> 01:25:25,315
and thinking about what crevices to put your fingers in

905
01:25:25,315 --> 01:25:27,455
in order to keep yourself from plummeting to your death,

906
01:25:27,515 --> 01:25:30,595
then you probably identify more as a climber.

907
01:25:30,935 --> 01:25:32,015
And so, yeah.

908
01:25:32,215 --> 01:25:33,595
I think that's the wrong way to put it, though.

909
01:25:34,035 --> 01:25:36,055
It's not, being American is not the Pledge of Allegiance.

910
01:25:36,195 --> 01:25:38,755
Being American is adhering to certain foundational values

911
01:25:38,755 --> 01:25:45,315
values regarding liberty, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, these types of, in that

912
01:25:45,315 --> 01:25:50,415
sense, like a mountain climber is doing what Americans do, which is the having the freedom

913
01:25:50,415 --> 01:25:55,055
to do what they think is, you know, it's like, the United States is kind of defined in

914
01:25:55,055 --> 01:26:00,995
contradistinction to the China, what we perceive there, at least the CCP to be, which is a

915
01:26:00,995 --> 01:26:01,975
lack of transparency.

916
01:26:02,615 --> 01:26:07,135
And again, like the UDS has failed miserably at a lot of this in the very recent future.

917
01:26:07,135 --> 01:26:13,875
But that's not to say that you can't be American and fight for what you think the best iteration of those values are.

918
01:26:13,875 --> 01:26:38,415
And as we talked about last time with Pine's article, like, I think appealing and grafting decentralized systems like Bitcoin onto the US, you know, using transitioning in the US to decentralized systems is a way that we then appeal, reappear to those foundational values, rather than just like mechanistically encanting the Pledge of Allegiance, you know, millions of times.

919
01:26:38,415 --> 01:26:49,715
Well, I do agree that I brought this up before that, you know, the United States is, is it itself a network state? It is itself.

920
01:26:49,815 --> 01:26:52,695
Yes, agreed. I think for sure.

921
01:26:52,695 --> 01:27:12,315
All these different non-connected entities who are united solely by what you said, common values and common virtue, not by a common ethnicity, not by a common race, not by a common God.

922
01:27:12,315 --> 01:27:16,055
But, you know, it truly was.

923
01:27:17,135 --> 01:27:23,535
And I think this is, you know, this is the reason to defend it so fervently

924
01:27:23,535 --> 01:27:31,295
and to do everything we can in order to revive the original,

925
01:27:31,295 --> 01:27:37,515
you know, to adapt the technology of today and apply it to the original virtues

926
01:27:37,515 --> 01:27:45,795
that the United States was aligned upon, aligned under,

927
01:27:46,575 --> 01:27:51,495
because the technologies of today empower those virtues,

928
01:27:51,855 --> 01:27:54,355
and they strengthen those virtues,

929
01:27:54,355 --> 01:28:02,575
and they give us an opportunity to, I think, really live out the dream of,

930
01:28:02,575 --> 01:28:10,895
not the founding fathers, but all of the founding people who came together, who were daring and

931
01:28:10,895 --> 01:28:21,835
took the risk of, um, of, of leaving something that they knew in order to start something new.

932
01:28:22,355 --> 01:28:28,735
Um, so yeah, I, I, I do agree in, in that, you know, the United States is,

933
01:28:28,735 --> 01:28:31,175
it really is something special.

934
01:28:31,995 --> 01:28:32,835
There is something

935
01:28:32,835 --> 01:28:35,375
very special about the United States

936
01:28:35,375 --> 01:28:36,875
that has not existed before

937
01:28:36,875 --> 01:28:39,055
and it's

938
01:28:39,055 --> 01:28:41,555
questionable whether it would

939
01:28:41,555 --> 01:28:45,235
it's questionable whether it would exist

940
01:28:45,235 --> 01:28:47,395
again if it was

941
01:28:47,395 --> 01:28:47,875
lost.

942
01:28:49,135 --> 01:28:49,555
Because

943
01:28:49,555 --> 01:28:53,235
the technologies that allow us

944
01:28:53,235 --> 01:28:55,295
to empower those virtues

945
01:28:55,295 --> 01:28:57,375
can also be used to

946
01:28:57,375 --> 01:29:00,075
disempower

947
01:29:00,075 --> 01:29:04,535
any sort of uprising.

948
01:29:05,035 --> 01:29:07,515
This is the surveillance state

949
01:29:07,515 --> 01:29:09,595
of the Chinese Communist Party

950
01:29:09,595 --> 01:29:12,395
and exporting autocracy.

951
01:29:15,695 --> 01:29:18,255
How are you ever going to rise up

952
01:29:18,255 --> 01:29:21,555
if literally your thoughts...

953
01:29:21,555 --> 01:29:23,115
And to a great extent,

954
01:29:23,395 --> 01:29:25,195
this has happened in the United States too,

955
01:29:25,195 --> 01:29:31,555
where I've had such a change of the way that I think about the woke culture

956
01:29:31,555 --> 01:29:38,095
as not an enemy but as something to really be pitied

957
01:29:38,095 --> 01:29:41,575
because all of these are good people who have...

958
01:29:41,575 --> 01:29:44,755
One of the consistent things I find when you talk to somebody

959
01:29:44,755 --> 01:29:50,615
who has every dyed-in-the-wool woke talking point,

960
01:29:50,615 --> 01:29:53,955
they, you know, if RFK has mentioned that,

961
01:29:53,955 --> 01:30:00,815
like, oh, I think he's crazy. If Elon's mentioned, oh, I think he's a dick. If Trump is mentioned,

962
01:30:00,995 --> 01:30:05,115
then oh, he's a criminal. Like, one of the consistent things that all of these people,

963
01:30:05,115 --> 01:30:10,355
I'm not political. I don't really engage in politics. I'm not really involved in it. It's

964
01:30:10,355 --> 01:30:19,475
not really my thing. But yet they carry the programming of the higher order of that ideology.

965
01:30:19,475 --> 01:30:28,395
and so um these are good people these are people that aren't political um yet they have been

966
01:30:28,395 --> 01:30:40,055
programmed and the mind uh the mind the mind is not always looking for a way to disprove reality

967
01:30:40,055 --> 01:30:46,835
and so if you are presented with something that appears to be real um then you're probably going

968
01:30:46,835 --> 01:30:53,435
to accept that first. And so these, you know, blockchain technology, the surveillance technology

969
01:30:53,435 --> 01:31:00,515
that we have, as China exports that to other countries, and to a certain extent, the United

970
01:31:00,515 --> 01:31:07,475
States, because we're doing a lot of it here too, then it becomes harder and harder to distinguish

971
01:31:07,475 --> 01:31:14,875
reality. And that's where we do need something that is inviolable, that is hard to change,

972
01:31:14,875 --> 01:31:19,775
much like the Bitcoin blockchain, the proof of work aspect of it

973
01:31:19,775 --> 01:31:21,415
where there's a cost

974
01:31:21,415 --> 01:31:25,415
because if there's a cost to, like I said

975
01:31:25,415 --> 01:31:28,015
if there's a cost to lying that you have to pay up front

976
01:31:28,015 --> 01:31:29,495
most people aren't going to do it

977
01:31:29,495 --> 01:31:34,335
people lie because they weigh the probability of being caught

978
01:31:34,335 --> 01:31:39,855
down the road with the advantage of perpetuating the lie right now

979
01:31:39,855 --> 01:31:44,755
and so there's a recency bias towards that

980
01:31:44,755 --> 01:32:10,175
Yeah. Well, that's great. That's all I got. I think your comment there, though, highlights the whole purpose of this chapter is that history is incredibly important because it shows us how our default programming is not a transparent lens onto the world but is colored by the stories that we've been told for very particular reasons by people in power to maintain that power.

981
01:32:10,175 --> 01:32:37,935
And so if you're going to start – if you're going to do something like a network startup and you're going to bring a moral innovation to the people, you're going to need to tell them historical story to kind of scrape off the implicit historical lens that they already have that's been, again, just fed to them by people who know how to craft a story and who control the news of the day because they control the organs of journalism.

982
01:32:37,935 --> 01:32:41,515
I agree very well said

983
01:32:41,515 --> 01:32:43,675
very well rounded out

984
01:32:43,675 --> 01:32:45,675
and I look forward

985
01:32:45,675 --> 01:32:46,935
to chapter 3

986
01:32:46,935 --> 01:32:48,175
me too thanks man

987
01:32:48,175 --> 01:32:49,315
have a good one

988
01:33:07,935 --> 01:33:08,615
Thank you.