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If I could hope for but one thing for you, so you'd be curious in all that you do.

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Cause love like a flower just wants to grow.

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Oh, and knowledge like your heart just wants to be known.

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If you like, please subscribe. This is Bitcoin Study Sessions.

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Thank you for listening. If you like, please subscribe.

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Every little bit gets me one tiny step closer to my ultimate goal of living in a cave.

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You never have to buy windows or shingles and there's no lawn to mow.

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Look it up. Dream big, kids.

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I do. Hey, welcome to this conversation.

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So today, Lucas and I are beginning a new book, The Network State by Balaji Srinivasan.

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It's available free online.

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You can also buy a Kindle one off of Amazon.

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I am incredibly excited about this book for a couple of reasons.

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One, Bitcoin is going to change most things, if not everything.

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So what will it do to the idea of the modern nation state?

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We've already seen how it changed warfare and Jason Lowry's software thesis, potentially.

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also how it can change the nature of settlements in our last conversation regarding Ivan's Instant Settlement series.

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So now we're going to see kind of a theoretical work about the idea of the network state

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and maybe the role that Bitcoin will play in changing our idea of what a nation state can be or what a state can be.

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So I'm also excited because if you've heard Balaji talk, you have seen or heard rather that he has an incredibly broad range of reference.

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You're always enriched, even if you don't agree with him, because you learn things about other things. He also has, he's an intellectual who speaks to be understood. Despite the broad range of reference, he's always in service of like conveying understanding. So this book, I think, and having read what I've read is that way as well. It's not just about powering through with intellect. It's about trying to be understood.

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Which brings me to the third thing and kind of the bridge into today's reading is biology has an incredible power of compression to take a complex idea and make it into a thing that you can manage and understand and build out from.

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So today we're going to read and discuss chapter one, which is entitled Quick Start.

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There are five chapters overall we're going to proceed through in our future conversations.

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This first chapter, Quick Start, it's a broad overview of the idea of the network state.

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In the middle chapters, two through four, we're going to see a deep analysis that is going to uncover problems regarding our collective future.

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And the final chapter then is going to be Balaji circling back to the idea of the network state and then in detail kind of going through how it's going to address the societal problems he uncovered in his deep analysis in the middle chapters.

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So today we're going to do the usual plan of attack.

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I'm going to give a short summary of this first chapter, and then Lukas and I are going to unpack and explore all the concepts further in conversation.

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So quick start. Balaji begins by characterizing the nature of his book in a couple ways. As I mentioned, it's available online and for free. And so first Balaji says, look at this as a book app. Not only is it online, freely downloadable, it's going to be, he says, continually updated. And as you begin to read, you see it's also full of hyperlinks that take you out of the book back into the world to learn more.

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Second, consider this book, he says, a toolbox and not a manifesto.

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You don't have to agree with every single thing he says in order to find one tool or idea that you find useful and then build out from yourself.

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As I mentioned, in this, Sobology has this incredible power of compression of big ideas and the smaller phrases, and he demonstrates that in this first chapter.

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And he does something that perhaps all authors should do.

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He begins with a one-sentence statement of the book. He says, quote,

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A network state is a highly aligned online community with a capacity for collective action that crowdfunds territory around the world and eventually gains diplomatic recognition.

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So that's Balaji's one-sentence statement of what the network state is.

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This book, though, of course, is over 400 pages, so this is obviously highly compressed.

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But we can understand a lot from it as kind of a starting point, a starting and ending point, really, of where Balaji is going. So he's going to move from this idea of a highly aligned online community to ultimately end up with something that has territory and receives, quote, diplomatic recognition. That's going to be the network state.

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Biology then proceeds to explain this compressed idea of the network state by comparing it to the nation state, which is obviously what we currently have, the prevailing paradigm of statehood.

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Nation states, we could say, begin with the idea of land.

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So you begin with a map of land and then assign each piece of land to a nation state.

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It's like a giant risk board game where you have colored squares.

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Each colored square corresponds to a state.

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The network state, though, does not begin with land or the idea that we need to assign control of that land.

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Instead, the board game map consists of 8 billion different minds, the minds of all humanity.

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And these minds are what are then colored in with membership to one or more different network states.

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Balaji then proceeds.

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He gives a more pedantic, second kind of legalistic definition of the network state, which has like 12 to 14 different criteria, depending on how you slice it.

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So it's no use kind of now rattling off the different criteria of what it takes to legalistically qualify as a network state because this is the first chapter.

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He gives a very high-level account, and that's actually better to understand at this point for our future understanding.

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Then in the last chapter, Balaji is going to return to the kind of legalistic clause-based definition and go through and show how a network state kind of really compares to a nation state in definition form.

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so instead to help us get the general idea um biology compresses his idea of the network state

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into one suggestive in an image he's given one sentence now he gives one image um he calls it a

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dashboard i don't know in lucas we had this image i don't know if we can queue it up in some way if

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if not you can see it in the in the pdf um he calls this one image account of the network state

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a dashboard. There we go. As you can see, it consists of kind of a map of the world. There's

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this network superimposed on that map with lines connecting different points. The different points

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or nodes are located over major cities. Each of these points has a number indicating the amount

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of people in that city that belongs to the network from that city. This picture also has three stats

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at the top, population income in square meters, along with the corresponding line graph to chart

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that over time. So this dashboard depicts a potential network state and its statistics,

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I think, it kind of looks like a video game such as Civilization or SimCity, but for the network

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state. What does this dashboard say about the idea of the network state? Well, so you should

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regard these nodes as internet connected and decentralized. We see a physical archipelago,

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islands of physical space connected by the internet.

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You get what you measure, Balaji says,

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and here we see the important stats that are being measured,

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population, income, and square meterage.

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And we'll see in the future he talks about further metrics

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that can be measured because, again, from the one-sentence definition,

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this is a highly aligned community, and they're going to be,

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they can be aligned, they should be aligned around a purpose

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or an idea such as longevity, increasing lifespan,

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something like that, which is measurable. So now we have the network state in one sentence,

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and here's the network state in one image. And the chapter concludes with two other efforts of

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compression, but with more detail, the network state in a thousand words and the network state

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in an essay. So to describe the network state in a thousand words, Balaji gives seven steps that

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you can take to bring a community that consists of these minds that are highly aligned,

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but connected only by the internet to materialize that community,

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bring it from the cloud to land, make it real,

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and bootstrap it into a network state,

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like an actual type of state akin to the nation state.

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So like the one-sentence definition,

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again, in the one-sentence definition,

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a movement from highly aligned minds to final diplomatic recognition,

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these steps are a more fulsome description of how to do that.

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So first, found a startup society. Step one, found the startup. A new business begins with a startup. A startup society is a network stake in embryonic form, basically a highly aligned online community with aspirations to be something greater, that thing that is greater, an actual network state.

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So two, you then move from that network startup to a network union by organizing for a collective benefit.

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Unionizing in this sense just means that your aligned community is going to seek the benefit of its members.

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The third step, you then build trust offline and a crypto economy online.

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Physical gatherings of these different internet connected nodes kind of occur with increasing duration.

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So people build trust with each other. It's an increasing process of materialization from the cloud to land throughout these seven steps. And then an internal economy is developing as well, because we know nation states have their own economies based on their own currency. And we'll hear about, of course, how Bitcoin can assist with that.

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step four then you're going to move from the network union to a network archipelago by

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crowdfunding physical nodes so increasing process of materialization from the cloud

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now the real world is being colonized in a sense first maybe a single bedroom apartment

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of a person who pertains to the network state then houses then cul-de-sacs then neighborhoods

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than entire cities, something like that.

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Five, you begin to build out digital connections

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between these physical communities.

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Things like an NFT-based digital passport

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that might grant unique access

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to members of the different physical nodes when they visit.

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Maybe an NFT on your cell phone

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allows you to enter into an apartment

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that is owned by the network archipelago.

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Also augmented reality.

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mixing this internet communities, internet perceptions with the real world.

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VR can show people different things if you are a member of the community.

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Maybe you see things in that, know a territory belonging to the archipelago,

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if you are a member of that archipelago.

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Then you, step six, conduct an on-chain census.

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These are the metrics that you want to measure that were on that dashboard,

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things like population income and square meters.

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You do this on blockchain in some sort of cryptographically secure and auditable form so that the world believes and you can show people and they can see that your network archipelago is actually a very powerful thing.

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This builds up to step seven.

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You've done that census.

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You've shown your power.

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Step seven, you become a network state, which means real world diplomatic recognition.

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That's the final movement from here, the network archipelago to the network state.

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And this way you move from that highly aligned startup society in the cloud, materializing it down from the cloud into the physical world until it is diplomatically recognized.

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This is kind of the opposite of the nation state.

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Balaji writes, quote, unlike an ideologically disaligned and geographically centralized legacy state, which packs millions of disputants in one place, a network state is ideologically aligned but geographically decentralized.

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decentralized. The people are spread around the world in clusters of varying size, but their

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hearts are in one place. So next, well, so that was the network state in 1000 words.

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Balaji giving us the steps and stages to move from the network startup to network union to

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network archipelago to network state. To add some more detail to that framework, Balaji gives us the

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network state in one essay. This essay allows him to give some additional context and show that the

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network state is more plausible than we might kind of think initially. So some context on how

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to start a new country, he notes, he lists seven different ways. Some are violent, like revolution

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and war. Some of them are more hopeful, have more potential, like seasteading or space colonization.

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But the most nonviolent and most realistic, practical way to start a new country right now,

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Balogy thinks is the network state because we already have the technology stack to make this

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possible and it's already widely distributed. Millions are already connected online. We already

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have digital currencies like Bitcoin. Crowdfunding online has already demonstrated success.

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So we already have the tech stack to begin to put something in place like the network state.

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It's also best able to move from startup to an actual state because the tech has shown that it

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can lead to similar types of changes in that some of the types of technology we have have already

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gone on a similar journey from startup to a more developed thing, almost akin to a state.

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There's really two types of recognition that a thing can have, numerical and societal,

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Balaji says. Numerical is about scales. Those are those dashboard metrics, income, land,

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population. Societal recognition is about legal recognition. So I said tech has already

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demonstrated this possible transition from numerical to societal recognition.

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Take a look at Bitcoin. We begin with a sort of numerical recognition, number go up,

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increasing market cap, increasing hash rate of the system, increasing number of users,

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wallet numbers, et cetera. From increasing numerical recognition, we move on to increasing

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societal recognition. It's given like a stock ticker. It has legal recognition in certain

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countries. It's placed in ETFs, things like that. So basically, numerical metrics of the Bitcoin

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economy, the Bitcoin protocol rather, have bootstrap belief in the network into societal

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recognition. The network state is the way that this can happen in the form of statehood.

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Numerical, you get numerical recognition first as you begin to, with the startup society,

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seeking to create, or rather a startup, a network startup seeking to make a network state,

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you begin with numerical goals, putting stats on an auditable blockchain to show growth and

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possibility of further growth in terms of population, income, land size, whatever other

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metric you want to optimize for, like longevity. Then that numerical metric bootstraps your network

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startup into these other stages, network union, network archipelago, network state, finally,

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into further societal recognition.

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So the thought is, given the tech stack we now have, things like Bitcoin, things like

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the internet, it is plausible to seed a network startup, push that into a network union by

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advancing the member interest, materialize that union into the real physical world in

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a network archipelago, and finally gain societal recognition in the form of diplomatic recognition.

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So to conclude this, Balaji gives a little bit further context, just to kind of really show us

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the real world plausibility of this scenario, in that most countries are small countries.

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20% of nation states have populations of less than 1 million. 55% have, the majority of countries

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have a population of less than 10 million. And you begin to think, what do those numbers mean?

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compare that to software accounts. Twitter has 650 million users. There are particular influencers,

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pundits, talking heads or whatever on Instagram, on Twitter that can have follower counts in the

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millions greater than the population of some countries. So it's plausible to think that a

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highly aligned community of millions could begin a network startup, advance their interests into a

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network union, materialize physically through decentralized land acquisition into a network

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archipelago and finally achieve network statehood societal recognition. So that's Balaji's description

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of the network state in one sentence, one image, a thousand words, and then one essay.

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He does that all in 14 pages. Again, another effort of compression, given that the book is

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over 400 pages long. So there's still a lot of context. If one disagrees with something here,

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don't throw everything out yet. This is just to open your mind to the ideas, give you a high-level

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summary. And then we're going to explore in detail in further conversations, kind of the

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justification societal conditions that have led us to this idea of the network state.

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So Lucas, I think like the question I have, I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on

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is kind of the plausibility of a network state at this high level that we're getting it now.

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It's kind of, I was thinking about this, like it's hard to describe, like part of the thing is

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it's just hard to describe how a new type of object could enter into an old category.

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Specifically, like the internet has caused the dematerialization of real world things.

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Like a book we once thought was a thing made of paper bound in the real world.

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The internet and digital technologies have dematerialized that, changing our concept of what a book is.

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Maybe even our concept of what a friend is.

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We might have once thought a friend is someone who you have regular physical contact with,

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who you know in the real world.

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Now, I think our idea of a friend has dematerialized. We saw in Jason Lowry's thesis how the idea of war is changing conceptually. And this is, I think, a big problem that people have with this thesis is they can't conceptualize how we can have a dematerialized form of war.

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And so I think that's also something that Balaji, a hurdle he really has to get over is if the network state is in some sense dematerializing statehood, but also materializing a new state from the cloud down to earth.

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I mean, does that fit into like how we think about a state or how we can think about a state?

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Can a state be a network state?

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Does that mean, does that sound like inherently plausible to you or what do you think about that?

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Yeah.

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it's difficult to first imagine

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until you look around

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and you see how the form function

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of everything that is in our lives

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has been rapidly dematerializing

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and becoming digital

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so Instagram digitized photography

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Spotify digitized music, Netflix digitized media or movies, Facebook digitized friendships, Twitter digitized news.

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Jason Lowry is showing us how Bitcoin digitizes war.

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we still have all of these things that we feel make us human our art our photography our music

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our our friendships our conflicts we still have those they just move to a different domain and

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it's hard to conceive because you have to change your perspective on

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the way that you view the world perspective is something that you don't realize you have

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until it changes and then you don't realize what your new perspective is you only see that you used

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to have one that no longer resonates.

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And so perspective is a really tricky thing because you never really know what it is that

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you're not seeing until, and once you finally realize what it is that you're not seeing,

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then you have a new perspective.

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You are a new person at that point.

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um there's a quote that i heard from mark andreessen

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talking about how artificial intelligence will from the ground up take over all of these industries

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um and he makes the case he says you know you're seeing two types of companies right now

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you have what he calls the sixth bullet point company,

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which is the company that they're a startup. They're coming in. Hey,

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we're going to do this, this, this, this, this, this, and AI.

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And he's like, it's on the sixth slide.

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And what you realize is that they made the slideshow before the AI.

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Now they're, now they're trying to throw it in.

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And then on the other side, you've got, which is, he says, this is what I'm waiting for, actually, is I'm waiting for somebody to walk in and I'll know this has changed when I see a restructured org chart, organization chart, where they come in for a pitch for VC money and they say, okay, so we don't have a CEO and a technical founder and a non-technical founder and a head of research and a head of engineering.

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and a head of marketing, we have eight engineers, and they are overseeing 100 instances of artificial

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intelligence that do all of these things. And that is our new org chart. It's engineers over AI.

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It's not people supplementing what they do individually with AI. And

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the network state has a lot of plausibility to me for a number of reasons one is the first

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thought that I had when I first read about this idea was when I grew up on the farm

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there were two jobs that I had to do every summer one of them was my favorite job the other was my

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least favorite job and they were almost the exact same thing. One of them was building new fence

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and one of them was fixing old fence. And I loved building new fence.

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Quality was the only concern. Speed was not necessarily a concern. If you're building a new

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fence, that means that there aren't cows running around in the pasture already. And so you're not

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under a time limit, plus you're doing it for your dad or your neighbor or whoever it is.

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And they care a whole lot more about, is this going to be straight? Is it going to be true?

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Is it going to be done well, rather than they care about the speed? And the reason being is that

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you pay for the job. You pay, you know, it's two miles of fence and therefore I'm going to pay you

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X dollars per mile. Fixing fence is miserable. Fixing fence is typically done under a constraint.

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You know, we got a 2 a.m. call from the sheriff. The cows are out on the highway.

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we got the cows back in but now we need to go find where the fence was where they got out we

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need to patch it nobody ever uses new wire to fix old fence you always get the shitty old

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wire breaks in your hands and the thing is that when a fence breaks and then you splice it

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it's never as strong as it was before never by you know it'll just never be as strong as it was

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before you broke it, and it'll break again, it'll break in different places.

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And Andreessen had this quote, he was kind of asked about like,

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existing companies pivoting to use AI versus new companies that are coming native AI,

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and bringing that org chart of here's engineers overseeing artificial intelligence,

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and which one is more plausible, which one's going to be more successful.

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and his quote was, if a technology transformation is sufficiently powerful,

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then you need to start the development process over from scratch.

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You need a new company.

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And so that's the vote for the radically different thing

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that is unrecognizable by today's standards.

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That seems crazy,

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but it only seems crazy because the perspective of being a nerd with and

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holding holding close to heart and using as a first option and a default the new technology

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is not yet there in the consciousness but when it becomes that you know hey i'm not going to use

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AI to make my job easier, I'm going to have AI do this job. And then I'm going to have AI do it

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better. Yeah. I mean, so like what I'm hearing is that it's plausible exactly because it sounds

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crazy. Like we should expect in a world where things are changing rapidly, things like a network

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state, which are going to sound implausible, like their plausibility actually stems from the fact

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that they, you know, are really taking new technology seriously. Yeah. Yeah. And I think

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you mentioned a couple of things in your summary. Um, one about kind of, you know, we're not going

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to get into the legal definition of what a, of what a nation is. And, but I, I feel as though

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Balaji is really doing his best to make a case.

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Yeah.

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And I omitted the legalistic definition he gave.

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He did read, I mean, he does have that longer one sentence, like a network state is this

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and this and this and this and this and this and this.

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So I think, I mean, I don't want to say, yeah, I mean, you're not saying he is, but

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just so, yeah, Balaji is very conscious of this.

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Actually, that's a great.

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So the network state in one sentence, a network state is a highly aligned online community with a capacity for collective action that crowd funds territory around the world and eventually gains diplomatic recognition from preexisting states.

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So and again so that the order in which it happens right You start with a highly aligned online community You then demonstrate a capacity for collective action

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whether that collective action is, you know, it's real life meetups.

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It's developing,

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developing your own kind of personality in the physical world as a group.

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And then eventually, yeah, crowdfunding territory that at a certain point,

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at a certain point when you crowdfund enough territory,

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when you're big enough, then you're, you're hard to ignore.

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And so, yeah, I think Balaji is really laying out this brilliant case.

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You also mentioned the compression.

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Balaji Surnavasan is, to me, one of the greatest writers in terms of clarity that I've ever read.

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And I find myself rereading things five or six or seven times and realizing that there is no fluff, there is no fat, there are no filler words the way that Balaji writes.

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When you read this book, it reads at like a, honestly, it reads at like a sixth grade level.

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It's very easy to read.

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This is consistent with what we saw with Jason Lowry, although in some parts of his thesis, obviously, it had to get a little technical.

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It had to get a little difficult.

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This is very easy to read, very accessible.

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Balji breaks things down into analogies and metaphors that are so easy for us to understand that it downplays the brilliance of what it took to come to that conclusion.

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My favorite part of this book is every citation is hyperlinked.

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And so whenever you see a blue link as you're reading in the network state, click on that,

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and it'll take you to a news story that demonstrates the principle that he's trying to describe

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or a Twitter post that shows the event that he's referring to

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or a Wikipedia page that gives you the background that you need

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in order to truly understand what he's going through.

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Yeah, it's a sprawling monstrous thing too.

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Reading it is like, I was like, ah, 14 pages,

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not going to take a long time to read.

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But you want to click on those hyperlinks and you should

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because like I said, you're going to learn a lot of other things

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aside from what you're learning about.

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You're going to get this idea of the network state.

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You're going to fill it out with examples.

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But the examples themselves are rabbit holes.

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If you have any amount of curiosity, I mean,

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it's a deadly thing to read because you're constantly falling through the trap doors into

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new ideas and you know biology a wide range of reference he's i mean very in in tune with

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cultural trends but he's also um former cto of coinbase he's a startup of he had a startup

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regarding like um something within like pharmacogenomics or something like that where like

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pharmacy and genomics and some sort of tech thing related to that so just like this wide range of

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technical references next to cultural references. And it's really interesting. And it does

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substantiate his thesis in a very particular way. When I was asking about the plausibility,

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this is one thing that leaped out to me. And I want to get your thoughts on this as well.

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So we've had this discussion in the past before too. So Balaji says that a proposition is not a

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nation, but it can become one. He says, I mean, I forget which section he discusses this, I think

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in the final essay. And so that idea, a proposition is not a nation, although it can become one.

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That kind of comes from Abraham Lincoln in the Gettysburg Address says that the United States

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is dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. So a proposition is an idea, right?

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This country is about equality and freedom. So is a proposition an idea, some sort of

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abstraction like that enough to make a nation or do you need something more so again biology says

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the proposition is not enough by itself but that it can kind of seed the startup with purpose

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and then you move to the next stage it's a highly aligned community um i guess you know you highly

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align yourself around an idea like um maximizing optimizing lifespan or something like that

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so this i mean there's like a there's a debate right now this is very alive um but is do we live

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in a propositional nation or do we live in a nation? Essentially, is the United States an idea

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or is the United States a nation? So Vance, and I think it was in one of his speeches,

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he's talking about people in a coal mining country who love the country, not because it is a good

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idea, but because it is their home and they would die for it. So America, in Vance's estimation,

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is not just an idea or a set of principles, not just a proposition. It is a homeland where people

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are from and they have those deep cultural roots to it. America is a nation in that sense and not

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an idea. And Vance has said people will not fight for abstractions, but they will fight for their

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home. And this is, you know, we've only read the barest high-level summary of what this book is

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about, but can a network, can we really create a nation from a highly aligned community consciously?

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Can we highly align ourselves around a proposition that we then build out into an actual nation?

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Or does a nation have to arise more organically as nations have arisen in the past around a shared

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historical narrative, a shared cultural or racial heritage that is then legalistically

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recognized. And that's maybe where I'm wanting, you know, I'm eager to read the rest of the book

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and see what Balaji makes of this. The network state, it is an intentionally, I mean, unapologetically

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an intentionally designed state around a selected idea. But again, you know, I think Balaji is

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acknowledging that a nation is more than an idea. And can he get us from seeding a network startup

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up with an idea to actually becoming a state in a more fulsome sense. And I wore this shirt,

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particularly, it's got some wheat on it. And so I come from Kansas. And I think that to myself,

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often, it's like, I don't ideologically align often with or share the same beliefs, necessarily,

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or have the same interests as the people around me. I come from a very rural area.

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But I still have like this deep, you know, kind of passionate love for the physical land and the

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heritage of the people and just who they are. And I see that and recognize that in a very full sense.

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And so can a network startup, you know, can it proceed from a proposition to something like

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my love for Kansas right now, which is not an abstraction? I mean, what do you think about that?

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Yeah. I just want to, so in response to that, I want to read something that I wrote while going

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through here because I think it demonstrates what you're talking about, what you're asking about,

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which is, I guess, first off, what I would say is that I think the United States is probably the

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first example of a network state. And I would say that the failures that we have seen with the

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United States that have tried this sort of experiment is that the technology did not

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exist at the time to allow for the proposition to be fully realized.

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You think about the things that the United States was based upon, freedom of speech,

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the ability to express yourself, your religion, your preferences, the ability to defend yourself

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against an oppressive government. These things were great ideas that were eventually

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made somewhat impossible because the technology did not exist that would give the citizens the

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ability to actually realize that proposition. And now we, I would say we do have those technologies

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and we are seeing this change. So let me read this and see if this answers kind of what you're

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what you're asking about. So Balaji, he's building a case. He's leading us to this

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inevitable conclusion supported by evidence from a multitude of life. We build new.

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We don't fix the old. Now is the time that we are building. We're leaving the known world behind.

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There's three competing systems at play. That's what he's trying to get us to realize here,

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is that there are three competing systems at play,

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but there's a surprise addendum to the three competing systems at play.

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There's the East, which is the censorship, the communism, the atheism,

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because why believe in a God when you can pretend to be one in real life?

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There's the West, based upon freedom, meritocracy, religion,

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whether that religion is a god or a woke religion or MAGA or Maha, psychedelics, money, some type of religion.

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And then the third one is code, Bitcoin, substack, freedom of speech and freedom of the ability to protect yourself in the digital world.

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So he's setting us up for this killer reveal.

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And the killer reveal is that there are not three systems.

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there's not the East, the West, and code.

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There are two dying systems,

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which are having their best parts taken from them,

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and from that will arise, from their ashes, the replacement.

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So there's many points of agreement.

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This, I think, really talks about the question you're asking,

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which right now we have a system where we have the red and the blue,

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and there are many points of agreement with those people.

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Yet we focus upon the points where they disagree

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on these contentious one voter issues.

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And you're effectively kicked out of the red or the blue side

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if you commit this faux pas of viewing the other side as humane.

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or human, or seeing them as fallible, just like yourself.

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As this system continues to devolve,

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we continue to refine the things that we disagree on

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and forget about the things that we agree on.

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A great example, I think, is abortion,

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which is a highly, highly, highly contentious topic,

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except it's really not.

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Most people actually believe that abortion should be legal and safe and allowed.

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It's something like 70 or 80 percent of the United States actually believes that abortion should be legal.

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What we disagree on is what is this small line?

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Is it 32 weeks? Is it 28 weeks? Is it only in this instance? Is it only in this instance?

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We have refined the points that we disagree on to minute topics.

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You had to hate brown people because brown people were terrorists after 2001.

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You had to hate black people because black people were violent.

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You had to hate white men because white men are abusive.

401
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You had to hate Jewish people because Jewish people control the money.

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You had to hate men because men are violent.

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You had to hate women because women are conniving.

404
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You had to hate Christians because Christians are hypocritical.

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You had to hate Islam because terrorists were Islamic.

406
00:41:05,071 --> 00:41:07,171
You had to hate Russians because Russians were godless.

407
00:41:07,491 --> 00:41:11,891
You had to hate the Midwest, Texas, and the South because the Midwest, Texas, and the South is godful.

408
00:41:12,731 --> 00:41:14,951
You had to hate Mexicans because they're lazy and violent.

409
00:41:16,031 --> 00:41:18,151
We got to this point.

410
00:41:18,331 --> 00:41:23,871
The problem is that you end up hating out your entire base of brilliant rebels.

411
00:41:23,871 --> 00:41:35,511
people who identify with one of those groups that if you want to belong to one of those groups,

412
00:41:35,511 --> 00:41:42,351
yet you are one of those identified hated individuals, hated groups,

413
00:41:42,751 --> 00:41:47,871
then you have to come in apologizing for something that's out of your control.

414
00:41:47,871 --> 00:41:58,091
I'm sorry I'm a man and I apologize for all of the man things and I'm going to play by your rules.

415
00:41:59,151 --> 00:42:01,431
Therefore, please allow me in.

416
00:42:01,551 --> 00:42:06,071
And then the grace on the other side is that they get to say you're one of the good ones.

417
00:42:06,691 --> 00:42:10,191
Oh, you're it's OK. You're you're a man, but you're one of the good ones.

418
00:42:10,191 --> 00:42:15,191
You're black, but you're one of the good ones. You're Islam, but you're one of the good ones.

419
00:42:15,191 --> 00:42:20,711
And so there's this really patronizing sort of pet.

420
00:42:21,551 --> 00:42:27,611
We're going to pat you on the head and it's okay as long as you stay in bounds.

421
00:42:28,411 --> 00:42:32,491
Yeah, what results is that you hate out your entire base of brilliant rebels.

422
00:42:32,771 --> 00:42:36,771
And the thing is you need to have brilliant rebels on your side.

423
00:42:37,251 --> 00:42:43,771
You need brilliance to do things and you need the rebels to do things in a new way.

424
00:42:45,191 --> 00:42:46,911
and to try things.

425
00:42:47,791 --> 00:42:51,431
So what results is you have a replacement of the first two,

426
00:42:51,571 --> 00:42:52,291
the red and the blue,

427
00:42:52,611 --> 00:42:54,971
which draws the best of each

428
00:42:54,971 --> 00:42:57,671
and leaves behind the glaring faults.

429
00:42:59,011 --> 00:43:01,511
And what it appears to be,

430
00:43:03,011 --> 00:43:04,531
Balji is setting us up for,

431
00:43:04,611 --> 00:43:06,631
and he's going to give us a lot of evidence

432
00:43:06,631 --> 00:43:07,771
and walkthrough for this.

433
00:43:08,391 --> 00:43:10,731
What it appears to be is that this time,

434
00:43:11,011 --> 00:43:12,411
it's the code group,

435
00:43:12,411 --> 00:43:25,471
which is populated by the oppressed, brilliant rebels and some plain old just rebels and actually some not very rebellious, but brilliant people.

436
00:43:26,751 --> 00:43:38,891
So all that's left in the old organizations are the non-rebellious people, the compliant people that don't think for themselves.

437
00:43:38,891 --> 00:43:45,651
I don't know. I don't think you can naturally care about code and be passionate about code

438
00:43:45,651 --> 00:43:49,751
and the way you can be passionate about the land that you're from and the heritage you have.

439
00:43:49,811 --> 00:43:56,491
I see what you're saying that maybe there are a small subset of people who are brilliant and contrarian

440
00:43:56,491 --> 00:44:00,511
and they will want to be in a network state because they don't give a shit about where they're from,

441
00:44:00,511 --> 00:44:05,391
their own physical, they have no loyalty. And this is me, of course, kind of amping this up a bit.

442
00:44:05,391 --> 00:44:12,851
They have no inherent loyalty or patriotism for the space of Earth, Earth that gave birth to them, that formed them, that raised them throughout their childhood.

443
00:44:12,851 --> 00:44:26,631
And instead, they're ready to abandon all loyalties and become some sort of denatured person who believes in something abstract like code and joins up with a highly aligned community who wants to maximize for some sort of, you know, rational target like lifespan.

444
00:44:27,171 --> 00:44:29,811
Maybe there are enough people willing to die for that idea.

445
00:44:30,111 --> 00:44:31,211
I don't think so, though.

446
00:44:31,211 --> 00:44:35,171
that's my, that's the one thing I want biology in this book to convince me of is that the network

447
00:44:35,171 --> 00:44:41,991
state will actually encourage a level of patriotism and loyalty on kin to an actual nation state,

448
00:44:41,991 --> 00:44:48,571
which is based upon unthinking criteria, like patriotism and loyalty and religion and family,

449
00:44:48,851 --> 00:44:52,691
like the things that we actually care about in life, I feel are those like things that are

450
00:44:52,691 --> 00:44:57,771
almost sub rational that form our rationality during our formative stages, like our childhood.

451
00:44:57,771 --> 00:45:12,271
And so the network state seems like we're just very much at the beginning of this, but it seems like too much of a rationalist construct, almost the attempt like communists, you can redesign society in a rational way or something like that.

452
00:45:12,271 --> 00:45:25,711
And where I just see that humans are irrational, we love, love is irrational, and you can't get people who are willing to die for a nation state without also having them believe in something that's irrational and having them be fueled by irrationality.

453
00:45:25,711 --> 00:45:40,591
So does that make sense? It's like the implausibility of the network state is that it seems like a cold abstraction. It seems like an attempt to intentionally come down with a top-down criteria like longevity that no one really actually cares about except for in some cold rational sense.

454
00:45:42,631 --> 00:45:52,311
I think every – well, okay. I get where you're coming from. I think everybody cares about longevity in a very real sense.

455
00:45:52,551 --> 00:45:52,891
Yeah.

456
00:45:52,891 --> 00:46:01,731
but i i guess i would say one you don't code i don't no so so that's one that's one thing where

457
00:46:01,731 --> 00:46:06,471
it's like i i do handwriting i write which is like coding and i wouldn't go to join a civilization

458
00:46:06,471 --> 00:46:11,311
that is like premised upon we're gonna write or like writing is our foundational principle or

459
00:46:11,311 --> 00:46:17,671
something like that yeah but you i would i would say for is coding a religious experience does

460
00:46:17,671 --> 00:46:22,451
coding demand fealty? I think books are very religious to you.

461
00:46:23,691 --> 00:46:29,711
No, I don't think so. I see what you're saying, that books are important, but I would never join

462
00:46:29,711 --> 00:46:34,031
a society that's around the preservation of books. I would join a nation state, rather,

463
00:46:34,271 --> 00:46:38,491
that's like other nation states don't take seriously that books are what is important.

464
00:46:38,711 --> 00:46:43,411
Our nation state is formed around the principle of preserving books and advocating for books and

465
00:46:43,411 --> 00:46:47,691
making people read books. Like I would not join that nation state. I would stay in the one I have

466
00:46:47,691 --> 00:46:53,711
that's shitty along various axes that demands things of me that I disagree with, um, rather

467
00:46:53,711 --> 00:46:58,471
than join the one that I abstractly, like the kind of abstractly propounds things that I agree

468
00:46:58,471 --> 00:47:06,791
with superficially. Um, I would say if you question that people will be passionate, loyal,

469
00:47:06,791 --> 00:47:14,811
patriotic willing to die for code yes look at the bitcoin community have you ever seen a

470
00:47:14,811 --> 00:47:25,851
community more passionate loyal patriotic um you know i i think that there are numerous examples of

471
00:47:25,851 --> 00:47:34,691
people that are more than willing to give the last full measure uh in order to defend

472
00:47:34,691 --> 00:47:36,771
Bitcoin.

473
00:47:37,271 --> 00:47:42,871
To defend Bitcoin or a society constructed around Bitcoin as a religious or foundational

474
00:47:42,871 --> 00:47:46,511
principle, I believe in Bitcoin because I believe in the people around me and want them

475
00:47:46,511 --> 00:47:50,771
to have a sound money and want the nation that I'm a part of right now to become better.

476
00:47:51,231 --> 00:47:54,571
I don't believe in Bitcoin itself as some sort of religious principle.

477
00:47:54,691 --> 00:47:57,051
Maybe some maxis do have that belief.

478
00:47:57,111 --> 00:47:57,731
I think some do.

479
00:47:57,731 --> 00:48:03,051
But I see Bitcoin as a technology to help my friends and loved ones and make the world

480
00:48:03,051 --> 00:48:07,331
better and not as in itself something that I religiously adhere to or have loyalty to.

481
00:48:08,211 --> 00:48:14,431
What I hear you saying, though, is no different, I don't think, from what Vance is talking about

482
00:48:14,431 --> 00:48:15,311
with the coal miners.

483
00:48:15,611 --> 00:48:21,631
Yes, exactly. I'm with him. My belief is akin to Vance's belief that coal miners don't love

484
00:48:21,631 --> 00:48:26,711
the idea of equality or liberty. They love the shitty piece of soil that they're from. They love

485
00:48:26,711 --> 00:48:32,071
the hills of Appalachia, not New York, even though New York City might be superficially more

486
00:48:32,071 --> 00:48:36,951
glamorous like where you're from despite how shitty it is a lot of people love that merely

487
00:48:36,951 --> 00:48:41,411
because it formed them in some way and they defend that even though they could have come from a cooler

488
00:48:41,411 --> 00:48:48,191
place and they can maybe now go live there and so that's the thing that the network state has to

489
00:48:48,191 --> 00:48:52,551
convince me of is that it can get that type of irrational loyalty to support it because i think

490
00:48:52,551 --> 00:48:57,811
that's necessary for statehood nationhood rather they couldn't have come from a cooler place you

491
00:48:57,811 --> 00:49:02,751
don't have a choice. Right. With the network state, though, you do. You can join a network

492
00:49:02,751 --> 00:49:08,331
state at any moment, become part of that archipelago, and reorient yourself to a new

493
00:49:08,331 --> 00:49:13,871
form of nationhood that's not Virginia coal miner, but that is instead longevity maxi or something.

494
00:49:14,771 --> 00:49:19,231
Yeah. So if you think about what these people in Kentucky are willing to die for, it's this

495
00:49:19,231 --> 00:49:27,511
tie to this ground, this property. What is Bitcoin defined as by the IRS property?

496
00:49:27,811 --> 00:49:32,251
Right. And so it's the highest form of property.

497
00:49:33,091 --> 00:49:43,411
You hear sailors say that. And then when you and it sounds crazy and then you kind of analyze it and you're like, well, it's the only thing that can't be taken away.

498
00:49:45,471 --> 00:49:55,131
You have to give it away. You know, we could we could go in there and we could take that land away from the people in Kentucky, just like the people in North Carolina had their land taken away from them after the hurricane.

499
00:49:55,131 --> 00:50:04,851
You know, they went back to their homes and they found, you know, found fences and gates and signs that said this is now the property of the United States government.

500
00:50:05,931 --> 00:50:14,091
So you you want to have that thing that you are willing to to die for.

501
00:50:14,191 --> 00:50:19,971
But it also helps if that thing does not require you to die for it.

502
00:50:20,111 --> 00:50:23,051
Yeah, I prefer to have it without the dying.

503
00:50:23,391 --> 00:50:23,871
Yeah.

504
00:50:23,871 --> 00:50:26,731
It was just all is equal to you.

505
00:50:26,871 --> 00:50:28,551
I'd like to do that but not die.

506
00:50:29,191 --> 00:50:29,331
Yeah.

507
00:50:30,531 --> 00:50:34,811
Let me just finish this only because I rattled this out.

508
00:50:34,811 --> 00:50:54,791
So the thing I wanted to say is that – so we're talking about like in my opinion, I feel like what we're seeing is this hollowing out of this stealing of the brilliant and the rebels and the brilliant rebels from the old groups.

509
00:50:55,911 --> 00:50:57,171
Who is stealing them?

510
00:50:58,051 --> 00:51:00,391
They are migrating on their own.

511
00:51:00,731 --> 00:51:03,671
To something like a network state or to something like just a new territory.

512
00:51:03,671 --> 00:51:06,531
What is stealing them is the proposition.

513
00:51:06,991 --> 00:51:07,831
Okay, I see what you're saying.

514
00:51:08,031 --> 00:51:08,051
Yeah.

515
00:51:08,571 --> 00:51:10,591
It is magnetized.

516
00:51:10,751 --> 00:51:14,051
It is drawing power to this thing that is new.

517
00:51:15,051 --> 00:51:19,211
If you identify with the code group, you're probably very well aware of this.

518
00:51:19,871 --> 00:51:21,391
Think about the Bitcoin community.

519
00:51:21,971 --> 00:51:25,851
It has voices from every single walk of life.

520
00:51:25,971 --> 00:51:30,931
Hillbillies, hippies, foreigners, natives, God-loving, God-ignoring, everything under the sun.

521
00:51:30,931 --> 00:51:39,891
this is a short-term problem because brilliant people and rebels are both very rare and so that

522
00:51:39,891 --> 00:51:45,411
means that this group is very small right now it's easily crushed it could be put down it could be

523
00:51:45,411 --> 00:51:51,831
squashed most people are not brilliant enough to do things most people are not rebellious enough to

524
00:51:51,831 --> 00:51:57,831
try things most people are not brilliant and not rebellious this does not mean that they are bad

525
00:51:57,831 --> 00:52:04,131
people. But the non-brilliant are easily misled and the non-rebellious are easily led.

526
00:52:04,991 --> 00:52:11,191
So all you need is to queue up a few people to lead the led and mislead the misled. And you've

527
00:52:11,191 --> 00:52:18,511
got a full-blown machine synchronizing masses moving in a generally speaking same direction,

528
00:52:18,511 --> 00:52:26,451
which I feel is a good way to look at where the Republican and Democrat parties had been moving

529
00:52:26,451 --> 00:52:35,131
or at the very least where the extremes of both sides of those which had taken over had been moving.

530
00:52:37,551 --> 00:52:43,231
If you now find yourself agreeing with people you would normally disagree with,

531
00:52:44,251 --> 00:52:49,351
unless that person is Dick Cheney, then you're probably brilliant, rebellious, or both.

532
00:52:49,351 --> 00:52:55,291
If you find yourself in the Bitcoin community and you're talking with somebody from Brooklyn

533
00:52:55,291 --> 00:53:03,571
who is brash and aggressive and drops F-bombs and talks about making sure that you can get one over

534
00:53:03,571 --> 00:53:07,451
on the guy and get your place and you're a dude from the Midwest and that doesn't really resonate

535
00:53:07,451 --> 00:53:11,511
with you, but however you find yourself agreeing on all of the things that they say with,

536
00:53:12,211 --> 00:53:17,091
you're probably brilliant, rebellious, or both. If you don't know which, it's probably brilliance

537
00:53:17,091 --> 00:53:22,431
because brilliant people spend most of their lives thinking that they're crazy instead of brilliant

538
00:53:22,431 --> 00:53:28,671
because they're living in a system where they aren't recognized for their brilliance.

539
00:53:28,671 --> 00:53:31,971
They feel like they're walking around in a world gone mad.

540
00:53:33,031 --> 00:53:37,291
And anyways, all of that is to say that we're being drawn to this conclusion.

541
00:53:37,471 --> 00:53:40,511
This is not a battle between two giants and a plucky contender.

542
00:53:41,131 --> 00:53:43,991
This is the slow slaying of the old way.

543
00:53:44,151 --> 00:53:48,431
It's the death rattle of the matrix, the exposure of deadly hypocrisy

544
00:53:48,431 --> 00:53:51,691
revealed through the deadliness of uncritical thinking.

545
00:53:51,691 --> 00:54:13,131
This is not over. It's not a fair fight, but it will be won because once you suck out all of the brilliant, rebellious people, you run shit. You just run shit. They do things. They have sayings like fuck around, find out. You can just do things. You can just make things. You can just do –

546
00:54:13,131 --> 00:54:38,871
So how is the network state necessary for that? To the extent that one thinks the new incoming Trump administration is bringing in on board people like David Sachs, Elon Musk, and others from the tech community, issuing a flurry of executive orders. That's not a network state. That's just the United States, a traditional nation state, has had an election, and then the elected officials are responding to the expressed will of the electorate.

547
00:54:38,871 --> 00:54:57,271
Yeah, I would not put Elon and David Sachs. Probably not J.D. Vance. Maybe Vivek Ramaswamy. Definitely not Tulsi Gabbard. Definitely not Robert Kennedy.

548
00:54:57,271 --> 00:55:08,031
I would not put those people in what I would consider a view of someone that I think is going to engender a network state.

549
00:55:08,371 --> 00:55:23,871
I do believe that these are, I mean, really mostly by nature of their age and kind of what you're talking about, which is that, you know, you have this native draw to the thing that is familiar that you grew up with.

550
00:55:24,291 --> 00:55:26,531
And it is so powerful.

551
00:55:26,531 --> 00:55:33,511
Yes. The instinct for one to return to their home, the instinct for one to maintain their home. Right.

552
00:55:34,611 --> 00:55:41,531
The instinct to hold on to the past is so overpowerful and strong. Yes.

553
00:55:41,531 --> 00:55:56,651
And it does. To leave that behind, you walk around wandering listless and untethered and unmoored from reality in the world because that is what makes you who you are.

554
00:55:56,671 --> 00:55:57,351
Right on. Yeah.

555
00:55:57,731 --> 00:56:07,871
And so, yeah, I wouldn't say that. And I personally, I don't believe that the United States is going to be at the forefront of any sort of network state.

556
00:56:07,871 --> 00:56:19,931
I don't believe that we are going to be leading the charge into, you know, two and a half decades in when we finally start living in the 21st century.

557
00:56:20,131 --> 00:56:36,982
I don believe that the United States is going to be either leading that charge or catching up to those who are No I mean like it The network state begins as a network startup which has a founder

558
00:56:37,442 --> 00:56:38,702
And so these are new things.

559
00:56:38,862 --> 00:56:46,802
The United States already has a founding, founding fathers, an ethos, a particular set of physical territory.

560
00:56:46,802 --> 00:57:02,762
It's not going to have a new founding proceeding from the cloud down to the real world, materializing as an archipelago, which becomes a network state diplomatically recognized because it already has its path dependent history.

561
00:57:02,882 --> 00:57:03,602
It is what it is.

562
00:57:04,242 --> 00:57:16,042
And so if there is going to be a network state, it's going to be people like RFK or Vivek or whoever deciding not to go into government, deciding not to join the incoming administration.

563
00:57:16,042 --> 00:57:34,102
Instead, starting a startup saying we're going to unionize around a collective purpose. We're going to acquire, build trust, start an internal economy, decentralize, acquire physical nodes, and then try to seek diplomatic recognition.

564
00:57:34,102 --> 00:57:53,342
And I know there are places that are trying to – I don't know, that seem like they're doing similar things. I think you're more familiar with – than I am actually. You listen to a lot of these network state conferences where people are talking about their specific plans for their network states. I mean, can you expound on a couple of those? I'm really curious. I just don't have any up mind.

565
00:57:53,342 --> 00:58:01,982
Yeah, one of them that I'm hoping to actually visit some of the sites across the United States.

566
00:58:02,202 --> 00:58:07,322
So there are, for people who are unaware, this is not a theoretical idea.

567
00:58:07,942 --> 00:58:16,822
There are network states that currently exist that have effectively gone through all the steps.

568
00:58:16,982 --> 00:58:19,342
Except for, I would, yeah, except for diplomatic recognition.

569
00:58:19,562 --> 00:58:20,562
I would just bracket that.

570
00:58:20,562 --> 00:58:31,482
There kind of is one that actually has diplomatic recognition, which is the Knights of Malta.

571
00:58:32,342 --> 00:58:49,402
So the Knights of Malta is, I believe, it's just a small group of very wealthy Catholic families that have that own, basically they have their own country and they have their own government.

572
00:58:49,402 --> 00:58:57,462
They have their own passports. They have recognition from certain authorities.

573
00:58:58,782 --> 00:59:04,762
So this is not a new idea. This is not a completely outlandish thing.

574
00:59:05,402 --> 00:59:10,582
A couple of them that pop to mind. So Cabin is the one that I think is really fascinating.

575
00:59:10,582 --> 00:59:20,642
um cabin has um cabin has sites all across the world primarily they're in the united states

576
00:59:20,642 --> 00:59:28,702
primarily they're in the western hemisphere um but all across the world um and they're

577
00:59:28,702 --> 00:59:36,782
co-living communities and so what it it sounds a whole lot like a hippie commune

578
00:59:36,782 --> 00:59:41,482
Um, except it's, these are not hippie commune people.

579
00:59:41,482 --> 00:59:50,262
These are, um, brilliant coders and founders, um, who also happen to, um, find benefit by

580
00:59:50,262 --> 00:59:57,202
doing the hippie commune thing, organic food, yoga, um, getting together to, uh, play music,

581
00:59:57,442 --> 00:59:59,002
educating your children together.

582
00:59:59,562 --> 01:00:04,922
Um, and, and, uh, the original one started outside of Austin, Texas.

583
01:00:04,922 --> 01:00:15,482
I know that there's one near Denver. There's quite a few. I think there's close to 4,000 members of Cabin so far.

584
01:00:16,182 --> 01:00:24,702
Prospera is another great example. Prospera is a pop-up city that has come kind of a permanent city.

585
01:00:25,262 --> 01:00:33,662
It's only about 1,000 people. It's down in Honduras. It is located in an economic legislative sandbox.

586
01:00:33,662 --> 01:00:38,602
And so they get a lot of leeway with what they can do.

587
01:00:39,442 --> 01:00:46,662
What's happened in Prospera is you have seen a flood of uber geniuses go there with their –

588
01:00:47,262 --> 01:00:53,402
there's a lot of, like, longevity startups that are going down to Prospera

589
01:00:53,402 --> 01:00:57,342
because they're actually allowed to do work there.

590
01:00:57,342 --> 01:01:02,682
whereas in the United States, because of the regulations that we have,

591
01:01:03,802 --> 01:01:09,302
being innovative with technology to make people's lives healthier and better is illegal.

592
01:01:11,322 --> 01:01:12,442
And so you've seen that.

593
01:01:13,202 --> 01:01:14,642
Cul-de-sac is another one.

594
01:01:14,642 --> 01:01:18,822
It's in Tempe, Arizona, which if you're going down to Arizona,

595
01:01:19,022 --> 01:01:22,902
we should meet down there sometime and just go check out Cul-de-sac Tempe.

596
01:01:22,902 --> 01:01:30,962
um that one i think is a planned community which is like it's you know effectively just think of

597
01:01:30,962 --> 01:01:41,562
um uh a whole lot of you know apartment complexes but also a gym and a grocery store and a um

598
01:01:41,562 --> 01:01:47,942
a place to get your hair cut yeah all this stuff right um and it's a carless community

599
01:01:47,942 --> 01:01:55,662
and so you you know everybody walks rides bikes um it's very tight very close-knit there's just a

600
01:01:55,662 --> 01:02:01,122
ton of these um i and and they can go very very small i actually have a friend who's a founder

601
01:02:01,122 --> 01:02:09,402
um i'm going out to see him in la and he had lived in san francisco and had done kind of the san

602
01:02:09,402 --> 01:02:14,802
francisco thing which was the it's so ungodly expensive to live there that you had to get

603
01:02:14,802 --> 01:02:23,982
creative. And so he got creative. He and his boyfriend moved in with another couple and they

604
01:02:23,982 --> 01:02:28,962
eventually enjoyed living together so much that they bought a house in San Francisco together.

605
01:02:29,502 --> 01:02:36,122
And then when the other couple decided that they wanted to have kids, my friend and his now husband

606
01:02:36,122 --> 01:02:42,622
decided, hey, we'll have kids. And so now they moved to LA, bought a different house and they

607
01:02:42,622 --> 01:02:47,322
both have kids. They're raising them. They, every year they switch who has the master bedroom.

608
01:02:48,142 --> 01:02:55,582
That's a, that's a very, very, very, very, very small idea of this, but it's just that exploding.

609
01:02:55,582 --> 01:03:03,022
And if, by the way, if that makes you uncomfortable, then you know, it, it probably shouldn't.

610
01:03:03,202 --> 01:03:09,442
It's different than what you're doing, but it's not, it's not bad. It's not, it's not,

611
01:03:09,442 --> 01:03:11,882
not heartless or godless or soul.

612
01:03:11,902 --> 01:03:12,602
Yeah, yeah.

613
01:03:13,162 --> 01:03:14,242
And I think...

614
01:03:14,242 --> 01:03:16,902
These are people finding a way to create a community.

615
01:03:17,142 --> 01:03:17,442
Yeah.

616
01:03:17,742 --> 01:03:19,562
I mean, and biology makes a good point.

617
01:03:19,762 --> 01:03:21,802
You know, I mean, I've been kind of postulating

618
01:03:21,802 --> 01:03:25,542
as if the network state is something that is,

619
01:03:25,742 --> 01:03:29,382
you know, at the exclusion of the United States

620
01:03:29,382 --> 01:03:31,662
or in competition with it.

621
01:03:31,702 --> 01:03:33,362
But the network state is kind of a different idea.

622
01:03:33,482 --> 01:03:35,602
All the startups you mentioned are ideas that,

623
01:03:35,602 --> 01:03:37,622
you know, one can be, you know,

624
01:03:37,642 --> 01:03:39,222
have dual membership in the network state

625
01:03:39,222 --> 01:03:41,002
and the United States or wherever they're at.

626
01:03:41,442 --> 01:03:42,882
And also a network state,

627
01:03:43,002 --> 01:03:46,022
it doesn't need to convince some ignorant person like me

628
01:03:46,022 --> 01:03:46,842
that it's good.

629
01:03:47,042 --> 01:03:49,822
A network state only needs to convince like a million people,

630
01:03:50,102 --> 01:03:50,902
10 million people,

631
01:03:50,902 --> 01:03:53,702
and you're already bigger than 55% of the countries out there.

632
01:03:53,842 --> 01:03:55,122
So, I mean, that's a really good point.

633
01:03:55,182 --> 01:03:57,322
I like the examples that you described.

634
01:03:57,542 --> 01:03:59,542
Those make it very real in our minds

635
01:03:59,542 --> 01:04:01,922
when we see individual real world startups

636
01:04:01,922 --> 01:04:03,902
already organizing out of principle,

637
01:04:04,122 --> 01:04:07,242
acquiring land and people voluntarily living in them

638
01:04:07,242 --> 01:04:10,662
and doing it on a propositional basis in a sense

639
01:04:10,662 --> 01:04:12,082
in that they're flocking to those places

640
01:04:12,082 --> 01:04:14,582
because like Prospera, they want that freedom.

641
01:04:15,462 --> 01:04:17,182
They disagree with certain fundamental things

642
01:04:17,182 --> 01:04:19,102
like how the FDA approves drugs.

643
01:04:20,002 --> 01:04:24,782
They disagree with the current consumption

644
01:04:24,782 --> 01:04:25,802
of maybe sugar even.

645
01:04:26,102 --> 01:04:28,142
Like biology gives the idea of the keto society.

646
01:04:28,142 --> 01:04:30,562
They have a keto Sabbath or something like that.

647
01:04:30,642 --> 01:04:31,442
They don't eat sugars.

648
01:04:31,582 --> 01:04:33,962
They don't have those types of carbs around them.

649
01:04:34,542 --> 01:04:37,082
So yeah, I like those real world examples.

650
01:04:37,082 --> 01:04:46,062
And it makes me also tone down and understand my initial critique that the network state doesn't have to have people ready to die for it just yet.

651
01:04:46,582 --> 01:04:53,282
And it still can get a lot of traction and in the future come to equal something like the current nation state.

652
01:04:53,562 --> 01:04:55,222
And you can have dual membership.

653
01:04:55,402 --> 01:05:06,082
I would join a Bitcoin-related nation state, have dual citizenship in that sense, and have my Bitcoin password and go down to El Salvador and the Bitcoin community is there, etc.

654
01:05:07,082 --> 01:05:18,462
Yes, I think I think it's helpful to kind of frame exactly how challenging it would be to turn the ship around.

655
01:05:20,222 --> 01:05:31,442
Andreessen talked about one of the questions that they ask in interviews for he's helping interview people for the new administration is pop quiz.

656
01:05:31,582 --> 01:05:33,182
How many government agencies are there?

657
01:05:33,182 --> 01:05:41,182
and by the way nobody gets it right and and and nobody gets it right because no one actually knows

658
01:05:41,182 --> 01:05:50,702
it's between 480 and 530 depending on how you define them so we have created

659
01:05:50,702 --> 01:05:58,042
over two government agencies around around two government agencies per year for the entire

660
01:05:58,042 --> 01:06:05,822
existence of the United States. Um, the, uh, I saw this, the, the number of regulations

661
01:06:05,822 --> 01:06:17,782
that, uh, existed in 1950, uh, I believe it was like the, the total pages was like 9,578

662
01:06:17,782 --> 01:06:27,942
or something like that. And now it's like 180,000. Um, and so you have this plaque that

663
01:06:27,942 --> 01:06:31,742
has built up in the system that needs to be scraped away.

664
01:06:32,182 --> 01:06:36,202
And that's what we're trying to do with Doge, right?

665
01:06:36,262 --> 01:06:37,962
That's what we're trying to do with Doge.

666
01:06:37,962 --> 01:06:45,162
But Doge would be considered a victory if it was able to get the number of government

667
01:06:45,162 --> 01:06:48,042
agencies down under, say, 400.

668
01:06:49,562 --> 01:06:56,822
But how is that going to compete with the startup that comes in and says, the network

669
01:06:56,822 --> 01:07:04,562
Society that comes in with, instead of 400 government agencies, and that's a victory,

670
01:07:04,722 --> 01:07:12,842
they come in with a decentralized autonomous organization, a DAO code, and it has zero

671
01:07:12,842 --> 01:07:13,982
people involved in it.

672
01:07:14,842 --> 01:07:16,822
And we all agree on it.

673
01:07:17,402 --> 01:07:22,082
It's very clear what is and what is not.

674
01:07:22,362 --> 01:07:24,542
It's very clear what we do when there are disputes.

675
01:07:24,542 --> 01:07:32,422
and and so it just becomes at a certain point the weight of the current system becomes too

676
01:07:32,422 --> 01:07:37,302
great for it to turn around and i think maybe an analogy is a good way to think about it

677
01:07:37,302 --> 01:07:48,142
is that you're trying to create something that is palatable to all those who partake in it

678
01:07:48,142 --> 01:07:56,962
so you're baking a cake and you're trying to bake a cake that people will like and um this would be

679
01:07:56,962 --> 01:08:03,542
like trying to change the proportion of ingredients or withdraw some ingredients or add some new

680
01:08:03,542 --> 01:08:12,122
ingredients or change certain things about the recipe once the cake has already been in the oven

681
01:08:12,122 --> 01:08:17,782
for 30 minutes baking. And that's really hard to do. In fact, you would probably say it's,

682
01:08:17,782 --> 01:08:23,822
it's somewhat impossible. And what you should probably do at that point is consider that a

683
01:08:23,822 --> 01:08:30,882
learning exercise, throw that cake out and start new mixing up a new batch and take what you learned

684
01:08:30,882 --> 01:08:36,742
from that and say, Oh, you know, that didn't work. Um, when I was in eighth grade, I was in economics

685
01:08:36,742 --> 01:08:41,202
class or it was called, yeah, we had home economics class back when they used to try to teach you a few

686
01:08:41,202 --> 01:08:47,962
life skills, learn how to sew and learn how to, how to bake. And this one time we were making

687
01:08:47,962 --> 01:08:54,762
biscuits and I forgot to put the yeast in. And it turns out if you don't put yeast in biscuits,

688
01:08:54,762 --> 01:09:01,942
they don't, they don't look good at all. And, um, you can't fix that. You know, they just come out

689
01:09:01,942 --> 01:09:08,362
and, uh, and then you start over. Right. And so if you've got the ingredients wrong,

690
01:09:08,362 --> 01:09:18,342
and especially if you've put too many ingredients in you got 480 government agencies um it's really

691
01:09:18,342 --> 01:09:22,822
hard to pull those out of the cake once it's been all mixed up together and put into the pan and put

692
01:09:22,822 --> 01:09:30,922
into the put into the oven to start to bake and and so i although it doesn't it doesn't sound like

693
01:09:30,922 --> 01:09:35,722
i love the way that the american flag looks i think the american flag is beautiful i think that

694
01:09:35,722 --> 01:09:41,302
the things we stand for are wonderful. But I also think that if I had been raised in, um,

695
01:09:41,822 --> 01:09:47,962
someplace different, I would think the same about that. I think I tried, I try to recognize my own,

696
01:09:47,962 --> 01:09:55,002
my own bias to that. Um, it's certainly not that I'm cheering against, uh, anything. It's just that

697
01:09:55,002 --> 01:10:03,882
I recognize the difficulty of trying to fix something that is, it may not be broken beyond

698
01:10:03,882 --> 01:10:11,342
repair, but it just may be that the cost of repairing it is so great. And the result of

699
01:10:11,342 --> 01:10:18,062
repairing it is that it will never be as good as building something new. And so at that point,

700
01:10:18,122 --> 01:10:24,282
it's an emotional decision. When we make emotional decisions, then we need to have a really strong

701
01:10:24,282 --> 01:10:29,602
justification for doing that. You brought up love and love is a perfect example for that.

702
01:10:29,602 --> 01:10:35,562
if you love something, then you're willing to do things that are irrational.

703
01:10:35,562 --> 01:10:44,062
Yeah, I see what you're saying, that maybe it is and certainly sometimes can seem easier to start

704
01:10:44,062 --> 01:10:51,462
with a blank slate. And Balaji mentions that. I think that that is part of the motivation that he

705
01:10:51,462 --> 01:10:57,542
has, that it is, in fact, easier sometimes to begin that way. But I do think the institutions

706
01:10:57,542 --> 01:11:01,982
we have are reformable, or maybe I'll, you know, give me four years, I'll let you know at the end

707
01:11:01,982 --> 01:11:07,182
of four years if I still think that's the case. But one of the things, even believing that even,

708
01:11:07,642 --> 01:11:14,222
you know, having that view, even if I don't think a network state can is something I would join,

709
01:11:14,222 --> 01:11:20,682
or would gain traction, or something like that. It's still an excellent critique. I think network

710
01:11:20,682 --> 01:11:28,282
states have a lot of value even towards the established nation states because, I mean,

711
01:11:28,322 --> 01:11:34,342
there's this usually dichotomy between exit and voice. Some people believe that what's important

712
01:11:34,342 --> 01:11:39,262
in a country is the power to exit that country if you disagree with it. That gives you the freedom.

713
01:11:39,382 --> 01:11:43,342
The country can do what it wants. You can do what you want. Some people believe that voice is what

714
01:11:43,342 --> 01:11:47,502
is important. You need voice in a country to be able to change it. And the cool thing about a

715
01:11:47,502 --> 01:11:55,002
network state is through the power of potential exit to a network state. It also presents like

716
01:11:55,002 --> 01:12:00,622
you're exercising your voice when you exit to saying, I don't like the way things are being

717
01:12:00,622 --> 01:12:06,742
run. And network states have the additional aspect of they're designed around a specific

718
01:12:06,742 --> 01:12:11,222
critique of the state. And to the extent that people are exiting to a network state,

719
01:12:11,222 --> 01:12:31,022
They are saying a lot of people that the current nation state is deficient in this very specific way. Like it's deficient because the FDA is overbearing. It's deficient because it doesn't manage health in the correct way. It's deficient because people, you know, lifespan is decreasing instead of increasing or something like that.

720
01:12:31,022 --> 01:12:37,682
if enough people do that, I think you, I am not, I guess I have more faith in you that we can reform

721
01:12:37,682 --> 01:12:42,922
the cake that is already being baked, that the nation state is a different type of thing.

722
01:12:43,402 --> 01:12:48,742
You know, we have had moments in our history where things have changed. Decisive presidents,

723
01:12:49,402 --> 01:12:54,082
FDR signaled a change in one direction. Maybe Trump signals a change in a different direction.

724
01:12:54,522 --> 01:12:59,162
I do think that change is possible. I'm not as romantic to think that it's as easy as voting

725
01:12:59,162 --> 01:13:05,042
for change. But I think, you know, we're seeing attempts at change. And I'd like the idea of the

726
01:13:05,042 --> 01:13:10,002
network state again, as a critique that can help motivate and reform our current institutions,

727
01:13:10,002 --> 01:13:15,622
not just present the opportunity for total exit from a disaster we've created.

728
01:13:17,642 --> 01:13:26,222
What? So I'm just going to be contentious then. What evidence do you have that you can reform

729
01:13:26,222 --> 01:13:34,202
country. So I guess two parts of that, that I can do it, maybe not great, that it can be done

730
01:13:34,202 --> 01:13:39,762
as part of a concerted effort with like-minded people. I mean, again, I don't agree with

731
01:13:39,762 --> 01:13:45,462
everything that the incoming Trump administration is doing or wants to do, but I agree with some of

732
01:13:45,462 --> 01:13:51,482
the things. And there has already been change just simply through executive orders on the

733
01:13:51,482 --> 01:13:57,462
fronts of DEI and transgender issues, things that we thought that those issues, some people

734
01:13:57,462 --> 01:14:02,902
have thought that culturally we had just gotten so far advanced that it's now like looking back

735
01:14:02,902 --> 01:14:10,062
at segregation or racism in the Deep South in post-Civil War. And you can never go back to that

736
01:14:10,062 --> 01:14:14,522
because we've already changed our moral values. I mean, I think we've seen that this nation state

737
01:14:14,522 --> 01:14:19,722
in the United States is now capable of saying those things are not fixed and we can move in

738
01:14:19,722 --> 01:14:26,042
different directions. So we do have the ability to reform in some ways. Again, give us four years,

739
01:14:26,162 --> 01:14:31,322
I guess I'll let you know at the end of the Trump administration, if any of the reforms have stuck,

740
01:14:31,622 --> 01:14:36,242
or if the United States is simply on an inevitable trajectory towards a sort of,

741
01:14:36,902 --> 01:14:45,902
you know, vaguely leftist socialism, increasing deficit and stuff like that, I guess.

742
01:14:45,902 --> 01:14:53,402
yeah i i mean i'm trying to think of it like i'm i'm not i'm not trying to be um against what

743
01:14:53,402 --> 01:15:01,582
you're saying so like i i would say that el salvador is probably a good example yeah of a

744
01:15:01,582 --> 01:15:09,882
massive shift and you brought up fdr um now two things that were very similar about fdr or one

745
01:15:09,882 --> 01:15:20,402
thing that's very similar about FDR and Bukele is that they're effectively dictators. FDR was

746
01:15:20,402 --> 01:15:35,402
very much a one man. We were living in a socialist dictatorship under FDR, one that we're taught not

747
01:15:35,402 --> 01:15:40,942
to question a country where you can never be president more than two times, but this guy was

748
01:15:40,942 --> 01:15:48,362
elected four times, right? Kind of wild. We just made an exception for him because he was so awesome.

749
01:15:48,882 --> 01:15:54,222
Yeah. Right. It didn't happen to be that he threw all of his enemies in jail and silenced the

750
01:15:54,222 --> 01:16:01,722
opposition and used the, you know, weaponized the, weaponized the court system and weaponized the,

751
01:16:01,722 --> 01:16:08,942
the legal system or the, uh, um, the police and, uh, and the FBI, you know, the newly formed FBI,

752
01:16:08,942 --> 01:16:14,762
um, didn't happen to be that he weaponized that against all of his enemies. Um, and Bicaylee,

753
01:16:15,322 --> 01:16:21,362
um, you know, yeah, they, they took their murder rate from like, what it was like 170 for every

754
01:16:21,362 --> 01:16:26,182
hundred thousand a couple of years ago. And now it's like less than one. It's like, I think it,

755
01:16:26,182 --> 01:16:30,462
I think it technically is the least murderous country in the world now.

756
01:16:30,462 --> 01:16:33,902
And it had been the most murderous country in the world.

757
01:16:35,762 --> 01:16:39,062
And he just did that because he's awesome.

758
01:16:39,482 --> 01:16:50,642
He didn't, you know, build giant prisons and throw, what, 40,000 people in jail in a day or something like that.

759
01:16:50,882 --> 01:16:55,462
Like, you know, there certainly wasn't any, like, the dude's a dictator.

760
01:16:55,462 --> 01:17:01,702
He's a democratically elected dictator who has a massive approval rating.

761
01:17:01,702 --> 01:17:14,862
He is the most popular president in the world, higher than Vladimir Putin, which is really impressive because, you know, those stats are probably a little doctored.

762
01:17:15,142 --> 01:17:17,602
Maybe the ones coming out of El Salvador are too.

763
01:17:18,322 --> 01:17:21,562
But these are people that ruled with an iron fist.

764
01:17:21,562 --> 01:17:27,222
They did not keep anything about the old way.

765
01:17:27,342 --> 01:17:31,162
They gutted it the same way that Elon gutted Twitter when he took it over.

766
01:17:32,042 --> 01:17:33,662
And I think that's a perfect example.

767
01:17:33,922 --> 01:17:44,322
In a company example, I think that's a really good example of you can have reform, but what does it take to have reform?

768
01:17:44,322 --> 01:17:59,262
And what it takes to have reform is a gutting, is a, you know, from what Elon says, you have to take away so much that if you're not adding things back in, you haven't taken enough out.

769
01:17:59,962 --> 01:18:03,622
And that's how you know that you're moving forward in the right way.

770
01:18:03,622 --> 01:18:25,882
And so I agree that I'm optimistic for what the United States looks like four years from now when we have, you know, when we have outlawed institutional racism and heterophobia and sexism by the means of getting rid of DEI.

771
01:18:25,882 --> 01:18:38,382
when we have properly identified collective delusions and decided not to recognize them by failing to not failing,

772
01:18:38,382 --> 01:18:43,182
by stopping the promotion of trans idealists.

773
01:18:44,682 --> 01:18:46,262
I agree with that.

774
01:18:47,282 --> 01:18:53,542
And I would say, yes, I think that is a vote that you can have change.

775
01:18:53,542 --> 01:19:06,902
But also, I would say, take a look at it. Does this look anything like the old system? To me, it looks nothing like what has existed for the past 50, 70.

776
01:19:06,902 --> 01:19:15,862
The only thing that this current administration in the United States resembles to me is the founding fathers.

777
01:19:16,822 --> 01:19:25,602
It is those people who were brilliant business people, brilliant engineers, lawyers, philosophers, inventors,

778
01:19:25,822 --> 01:19:34,942
who came together for a common cause, who did not have consistent idealistic beliefs.

779
01:19:34,942 --> 01:19:47,042
There were people on very much both sides of belief spectrum, yet they came together and they had two things in common.

780
01:19:47,162 --> 01:19:48,802
They were brilliant and they were rebels.

781
01:19:49,482 --> 01:20:02,522
And they were leaving the old system behind, taking with it, taking with them the things that they did love and appreciate about that system that gave opportunity for people.

782
01:20:02,522 --> 01:20:16,922
but also writing code in the form of the Constitution and the amendments that was meant to minimize those abuses of power that they had experienced, which forced them to leave.

783
01:20:17,382 --> 01:20:17,502
Yeah.

784
01:20:18,082 --> 01:20:24,282
And the difference today is that we now have the ability to enforce that code.

785
01:20:24,282 --> 01:20:26,502
We could always write code.

786
01:20:27,742 --> 01:20:33,982
And this is Jason Lowry's thesis writ large, is that you can write all the code you want.

787
01:20:34,322 --> 01:20:36,582
You can create all the abstract hierarchies you want.

788
01:20:36,762 --> 01:20:37,842
You can't enforce them.

789
01:20:38,402 --> 01:20:39,222
You just can't.

790
01:20:39,822 --> 01:20:41,382
Somebody comes in with a bigger stick.

791
01:20:41,502 --> 01:20:42,342
They've got more power.

792
01:20:43,042 --> 01:20:44,742
They now own that hierarchy.

793
01:20:45,202 --> 01:20:45,302
Yeah.

794
01:20:45,902 --> 01:20:48,702
But technology has now advanced.

795
01:20:48,702 --> 01:20:56,542
we have seen a sufficient change in technology that will allow us to enforce the code that we write.

796
01:20:56,822 --> 01:20:57,042
Yeah.

797
01:20:57,262 --> 01:21:06,862
Instead of writing the code and then hoping for the best against human fallibility and or not even human fallibility,

798
01:21:06,982 --> 01:21:14,042
just like what Jason Mowry says, which is that, look, if you exploit the code, then you're doing what the code was meant to do.

799
01:21:14,142 --> 01:21:16,042
You're not you're it's not a bug. It's a feature.

800
01:21:16,042 --> 01:21:19,102
so it allows you to write better code.

801
01:21:19,362 --> 01:21:22,782
So you're not joining any seasteading communities

802
01:21:22,782 --> 01:21:24,802
even though you're fresh off and tanned

803
01:21:24,802 --> 01:21:27,762
and just glorified walking around

804
01:21:27,762 --> 01:21:30,522
flaunting your sea legs to all of us

805
01:21:30,522 --> 01:21:32,302
who weren't on a cruise.

806
01:21:32,522 --> 01:21:36,142
But you could see yourself perhaps

807
01:21:36,142 --> 01:21:41,222
joining a somewhat like network state type of thing

808
01:21:41,222 --> 01:21:44,942
so long as it doesn't require you

809
01:21:44,942 --> 01:21:48,722
to leave behind everything about the world that you currently live in.

810
01:21:48,722 --> 01:21:48,962
Right.

811
01:21:49,082 --> 01:21:49,542
I want to,

812
01:21:49,662 --> 01:21:49,862
yeah,

813
01:21:50,442 --> 01:21:50,762
right.

814
01:21:50,822 --> 01:21:50,922
Right.

815
01:21:51,502 --> 01:21:51,982
Anyways,

816
01:21:51,982 --> 01:21:53,042
that's what I,

817
01:21:53,222 --> 01:21:55,882
I guess those are my thoughts on it is that it,

818
01:21:56,702 --> 01:21:59,222
the network state allows you to bring that with you.

819
01:21:59,222 --> 01:22:03,662
It allows you to bring Western Kansas and Eastern Kentucky and,

820
01:22:03,662 --> 01:22:04,222
and,

821
01:22:04,222 --> 01:22:04,962
and,

822
01:22:04,962 --> 01:22:08,242
and downtown New York and East Memphis.

823
01:22:08,242 --> 01:22:13,462
Like it allows you to bring those things into whatever it is that you go to

824
01:22:13,462 --> 01:22:13,882
next.

825
01:22:13,882 --> 01:22:21,202
it just provides you with the opportunity to not be abused.

826
01:22:21,802 --> 01:22:25,782
And I think, I guess my last kind of like plea,

827
01:22:26,182 --> 01:22:27,662
and we're going to be able to get into this,

828
01:22:27,722 --> 01:22:30,322
and I'm so excited to get into this in further conversations,

829
01:22:30,322 --> 01:22:37,862
but my last plea just coming up front for why I truly believe in this network

830
01:22:37,862 --> 01:22:45,642
state idea is that when you think about the relationship that you have with the authority

831
01:22:45,642 --> 01:22:54,502
around you, you basically will obey that authority until they break trust with you.

832
01:22:54,502 --> 01:23:02,302
And then you start to question. And I think after COVID, we saw a massive realization

833
01:23:02,302 --> 01:23:15,322
by the subjects of oppression who had become violently aware that the trust between them

834
01:23:15,322 --> 01:23:17,322
and the authority had been broken.

835
01:23:18,182 --> 01:23:23,782
And trust, you've probably heard the saying, you know, what's something that's once it's

836
01:23:23,782 --> 01:23:25,302
broken can never be repaired.

837
01:23:25,862 --> 01:23:28,662
And I would say that trust falls into that category.

838
01:23:29,142 --> 01:23:29,262
Yeah.

839
01:23:29,382 --> 01:23:31,122
So I don't know how.

840
01:23:31,122 --> 01:23:48,222
I just don't know how you change these things. And if the United States looks fundamentally different after four years of MAGA and MAHA and DOJ, then I would say that it is fundamentally different because it is not the same United States.

841
01:23:48,222 --> 01:23:48,622
Yeah.

842
01:23:48,742 --> 01:23:54,362
I think we'll probably see that because we'll probably see some people secede and form their own society.

843
01:23:54,362 --> 01:24:18,202
Yeah, no, I agree with what you said on the large. And I just take a few things in particular, I guess, and also to frame, we were talking about the effects of the election, what that says about the ability of a nation state to change, and almost maybe positing that as a critique on the necessity or the idea of a network state. At least I was, maybe initially, but it's actually not.

844
01:24:18,202 --> 01:24:23,922
In this chapter, Balaji says how to start a new country, and he gives multiple ways.

845
01:24:24,062 --> 01:24:25,222
And one of them is an election.

846
01:24:25,402 --> 01:24:28,122
You can win and rewrite the laws or carve out a new state.

847
01:24:28,362 --> 01:24:30,802
And Balaji does mention the New Deal there.

848
01:24:31,202 --> 01:24:33,082
He says that's a popular but a crowded option.

849
01:24:33,522 --> 01:24:34,782
So that is one way.

850
01:24:34,902 --> 01:24:36,502
He is just talking about a different way.

851
01:24:36,582 --> 01:24:38,362
So these aren't mutually exclusive.

852
01:24:38,582 --> 01:24:49,793
You can change create a new nation state through an election You can also do it through the network state So it not really a critique on Balaji to say that we can also vote and have changes that way

853
01:24:50,293 --> 01:24:55,273
Again, he's just saying, that's cool. Here's another way. Another way is the network state,

854
01:24:55,753 --> 01:24:59,733
which is why I like this. It's like a change in perspective on what the state can be. And you

855
01:24:59,733 --> 01:25:06,673
mentioned that how important perspective is in this. In an interview, I heard Balaji holding court

856
01:25:06,673 --> 01:25:07,813
on the idea of a network state.

857
01:25:07,933 --> 01:25:08,873
And he has so many references

858
01:25:08,873 --> 01:25:10,313
and he dropped a quote from somebody

859
01:25:10,313 --> 01:25:12,693
that perspective is greater than IQ.

860
01:25:13,413 --> 01:25:16,033
And like that is a really sound principle

861
01:25:16,033 --> 01:25:18,993
because if you have a lot of kind of

862
01:25:19,633 --> 01:25:21,913
intellectual computational power,

863
01:25:22,073 --> 01:25:23,253
your IQ is very high,

864
01:25:23,353 --> 01:25:25,653
but you're using it in this sort of tunnel vision

865
01:25:25,653 --> 01:25:28,413
sort of way, that's not good.

866
01:25:28,473 --> 01:25:29,393
If you have the perspective

867
01:25:29,393 --> 01:25:30,753
and you can see in a broader sense

868
01:25:30,753 --> 01:25:33,993
that you're using your IQ in a bad way, that's good.

869
01:25:34,073 --> 01:25:35,853
And so the perspectival shift can be

870
01:25:35,853 --> 01:25:41,133
network states are possible, at least admit of the possibility that things are dematerializing,

871
01:25:41,373 --> 01:25:46,413
the ontology of objects that we typically are used to interact with, like books, artistic

872
01:25:46,413 --> 01:25:50,673
productions, even the nature of warfare, these things are changing. Also, the nation state,

873
01:25:50,793 --> 01:25:55,913
there is a new type of thing that could exist called the network state. And I really like this

874
01:25:55,913 --> 01:26:02,373
book for that reason, offering that broadened perspective. And I don't, again, disagree with

875
01:26:02,373 --> 01:26:09,133
despite what I kind of posited as critiques, I might, in fact, you know, if it didn't require,

876
01:26:09,273 --> 01:26:15,493
of course, renouncing U.S. citizenship, I could see myself joining a network state of some sort.

877
01:26:15,833 --> 01:26:21,033
And, you know, if it had its own sorts of privileges connected to an NFT-based passport,

878
01:26:21,273 --> 01:26:27,013
enjoying those and, you know, being part of a highly aligned community that was organizing for

879
01:26:27,013 --> 01:26:34,293
itself, even decentralized physical possession of land, trying to create something more. I could

880
01:26:34,293 --> 01:26:39,953
see myself being a part of that, believing in a cause and believing in it enough to want to

881
01:26:39,953 --> 01:26:47,093
do more to instantiate it in the world. But even if I didn't, I still see the value of network states

882
01:26:47,093 --> 01:26:54,773
as laboratories and experiments in new ideas, right? Again, a network state can say,

883
01:26:54,773 --> 01:27:01,353
we think there's a better way to do things. We think this whole health matrix that the United

884
01:27:01,353 --> 01:27:08,013
States is currently in is just flawed from first principles. We can do it better. If they do,

885
01:27:08,013 --> 01:27:13,013
in fact, do it better, that enriches the whole world. You can see like, oh, these people in this

886
01:27:13,013 --> 01:27:19,053
new network state, network startup even, have realigned themselves on certain health-based

887
01:27:19,053 --> 01:27:23,193
principles and they're living like five years longer or something. Then the rest of the world,

888
01:27:23,193 --> 01:27:40,293
This stuff feedbacks. We're all in a grand dialogue with each other. I do think it reforms and enriches the United States. It would inform and enrich the United States if there were network states that arose, advanced a principle, and showed the world that you can live by a principle, and this principle does improve things.

889
01:27:40,293 --> 01:27:56,513
So, yeah, I mean, I think you bring me on board with this discussion more, you know, I want to see where Balich is going. I want to see the examples and I want to see him do that deep dive as a critique into the current functioning of things that's going to motivate in the end his final statement of the network state.

890
01:27:56,513 --> 01:28:05,933
Yeah. I want to share my screen again because I had thought about this.

891
01:28:10,313 --> 01:28:19,853
So I think one thing that we have to keep in mind is that things change and change is constant.

892
01:28:20,373 --> 01:28:21,053
Do you see my screen?

893
01:28:21,293 --> 01:28:21,753
I do not.

894
01:28:22,533 --> 01:28:24,333
Okay. Hold on. Let me see if I get it.

895
01:28:24,333 --> 01:28:28,713
And just make sure when you share your screen, you also do not activate that microphone.

896
01:28:28,893 --> 01:28:30,213
You're going to be caught in an echo chamber.

897
01:28:30,933 --> 01:28:31,113
Yep.

898
01:28:31,413 --> 01:28:31,693
Yep.

899
01:28:31,793 --> 01:28:31,973
Yep.

900
01:28:32,093 --> 01:28:32,273
Yep.

901
01:28:32,413 --> 01:28:33,193
Should be good.

902
01:28:34,173 --> 01:28:34,873
That's right.

903
01:28:35,033 --> 01:28:35,433
Share.

904
01:28:35,693 --> 01:28:36,233
What about now?

905
01:28:36,373 --> 01:28:37,153
I can see that.

906
01:28:37,213 --> 01:28:37,313
Yeah.

907
01:28:37,353 --> 01:28:37,873
New scientist.

908
01:28:38,393 --> 01:28:38,773
All right.

909
01:28:38,853 --> 01:28:41,133
So this is a video.

910
01:28:41,133 --> 01:28:43,533
Is there any sort of copyright thing on this we have to worry about?

911
01:28:44,293 --> 01:28:44,913
Who knows?

912
01:28:44,973 --> 01:28:45,533
We'll find out.

913
01:28:45,713 --> 01:28:46,013
Yes.

914
01:28:46,033 --> 01:28:46,913
That's one way to do it.

915
01:28:47,393 --> 01:28:47,553
Yeah.

916
01:28:48,413 --> 01:28:52,673
So this is showing how Europe's borders changed over 2200 years.

917
01:28:52,673 --> 01:29:09,413
And I think one thing to keep in mind is that as you watch this, what you see is, I would say, more change faster.

918
01:29:10,953 --> 01:29:16,673
So we are, you see how we continue like decentralizing, decentralizing,

919
01:29:17,353 --> 01:29:20,813
then you go through periods of centralization and then you decentralize again.

920
01:29:22,673 --> 01:29:25,613
But borders continue to change.

921
01:29:25,793 --> 01:29:30,133
We talked about this in actually our last discussion.

922
01:29:30,493 --> 01:29:32,153
Borders are always changing.

923
01:29:32,353 --> 01:29:37,533
It's the thing that frustrated me about geography and made it my least favorite subject.

924
01:29:38,333 --> 01:29:47,073
And so one thing that I think we always need to keep in mind is that the past predicts the future.

925
01:29:47,073 --> 01:29:56,933
There is no evidence that what is will be.

926
01:29:58,153 --> 01:30:02,713
What is is constantly changing and evolving.

927
01:30:03,173 --> 01:30:12,373
And so, yes, we will continue to reshape the world both geographically and digitally.

928
01:30:12,373 --> 01:30:17,933
but I think the reason

929
01:30:17,933 --> 01:30:20,433
again this goes back to Jason Lowry's thesis

930
01:30:20,433 --> 01:30:23,693
the reason why this is such a hard concept for people

931
01:30:23,693 --> 01:30:26,533
maybe to think about at the outset

932
01:30:26,533 --> 01:30:27,933
is because

933
01:30:27,933 --> 01:30:32,973
it's not even in every lifetime

934
01:30:32,973 --> 01:30:35,113
it seems to be more like

935
01:30:35,113 --> 01:30:38,073
every few centuries

936
01:30:38,073 --> 01:30:41,533
is when we have the sort of technology

937
01:30:41,533 --> 01:30:43,453
that allows for some sort of change.

938
01:30:43,593 --> 01:30:49,373
We previously had church states and then the printing press allowed for the dissolution

939
01:30:49,373 --> 01:30:55,833
of information to other, the decentralization of information, which killed the strength

940
01:30:55,833 --> 01:30:58,973
of the church state and allowed for the rise of the nation state.

941
01:30:59,733 --> 01:31:05,233
And the nation state then got a lock on propaganda as well and started to abuse that.

942
01:31:05,233 --> 01:31:14,553
And out of that arose the Internet, which has cut the legs out of the nation state by revealing its abuses and its lies.

943
01:31:15,173 --> 01:31:17,673
And that's taking us into this network state.

944
01:31:18,353 --> 01:31:24,993
So we it's so hard to recognize these things simply because they occur so infrequently.

945
01:31:25,993 --> 01:31:32,193
It's as though you're seeing a comet that only comes around every 800 years or 600 years.

946
01:31:32,193 --> 01:31:34,453
But every time it comes around, it looks different.

947
01:31:35,233 --> 01:31:56,413
This time it's a comet. Next time it's a horse and cart. The time after that, it's a microchip. And so it's just very difficult to see these things, perhaps for what they are, but they leave clues. And the way that they leave clues is by showing us the result of their work.

948
01:31:56,413 --> 01:32:15,793
So does this new technology, you know, decentralized money, digital money, decentralized government with DAOs, does this do the thing that it's replacing faster, better, stronger, cheaper with less failure?

949
01:32:16,833 --> 01:32:21,893
Is it an order of magnitude better in every way?

950
01:32:21,893 --> 01:32:31,753
those are ways that you can really take a look at something kind of this the the the features of it

951
01:32:31,753 --> 01:32:38,453
and use that to define what it actually is because what it looks like is not something that you can

952
01:32:38,453 --> 01:32:47,373
identify because it is by nature transformational and therefore has not been seen so I think when

953
01:32:47,373 --> 01:32:53,553
me push towards that you know i i guess my my question i wanted to ask you was you know you say

954
01:32:53,553 --> 01:32:59,053
uh i might i might look at doing this if i don't have to give up my my united states citizenship

955
01:32:59,053 --> 01:33:07,733
and i'm this is partly tongue-in-cheek but my my question because i want to hear you elucidate it is

956
01:33:07,733 --> 01:33:11,193
what are the benefits of united states citizenship

957
01:33:11,193 --> 01:33:20,493
like i i that sounds like a dumb question yeah it sounds like well do you uh you know usa number one

958
01:33:20,493 --> 01:33:24,873
no there's two there's there is two things too i mean there are like the legalistic advantages

959
01:33:24,873 --> 01:33:31,013
like free movement and entry free movement within and entry into the united states um there's

960
01:33:31,013 --> 01:33:38,673
maybe other things associated with that that like benefits and things like that but for me even

961
01:33:38,673 --> 01:33:45,473
even acknowledging those things, what I meant more so is a certain irrational, unthinking,

962
01:33:45,973 --> 01:33:52,913
moral affiliation with the historic entity known as the United States, because I was indoctrinated

963
01:33:52,913 --> 01:34:00,213
that way in my formative years, and acknowledged that and believed that all forms of moral value

964
01:34:00,213 --> 01:34:07,453
come at us kind of in our formative years from things that you cannot, you can't more, you know,

965
01:34:07,453 --> 01:34:10,213
you can't rationally justify everything all the way down.

966
01:34:10,313 --> 01:34:12,033
You just get to kind of bedrock principles.

967
01:34:12,273 --> 01:34:14,313
And we learn those as part of our culture.

968
01:34:14,313 --> 01:34:18,813
And one of those things that I've imbibed from that Kool-Aid is an irrational

969
01:34:18,813 --> 01:34:21,913
fealty to the United States, which we typically refer to as patriotism.

970
01:34:22,413 --> 01:34:23,613
Yeah. Or love.

971
01:34:24,293 --> 01:34:25,313
A love of your country, right?

972
01:34:25,933 --> 01:34:27,133
Love of your country. Yeah.

973
01:34:27,253 --> 01:34:27,453
Yeah.

974
01:34:28,073 --> 01:34:32,433
I think that's the beautiful way to look at it.

975
01:34:32,433 --> 01:34:40,113
I think the realistic way to look at it is that you have the highest tax rate of any industrialized nation.

976
01:34:40,113 --> 01:34:43,473
So you don't get to keep hardly anything of what is yours.

977
01:34:44,433 --> 01:34:48,373
But it's like, do I want to flee the country and leave it in the hands of those parasites, though?

978
01:34:48,433 --> 01:34:49,133
There's also that.

979
01:34:49,373 --> 01:34:52,473
Do we come from a nation of people that flee from those who want?

980
01:34:52,513 --> 01:34:52,933
Maybe we do.

981
01:34:53,973 --> 01:34:55,113
We literally do.

982
01:34:55,473 --> 01:34:56,133
Gosh dang it.

983
01:34:57,233 --> 01:34:58,153
Okay, back up.

984
01:34:59,273 --> 01:35:00,773
Our nation is now different.

985
01:35:00,773 --> 01:35:12,333
So we also have like the civil war. We didn't run from that or something. I don't know. There's an analogy or metaphor to substantiate that we're not absolute cowards. And we do stand and fight as well. That's the principle I want to appeal to.

986
01:35:12,333 --> 01:35:29,393
You know, that's not cowardice, right? It's not cowardice to leave the thing that's abusive. It's not cowardice to walk out of a toxic relationship or an abusive relationship when you realize that, you know, what you're doing is you're wasting your life trying to change something that won't change.

987
01:35:29,393 --> 01:35:36,573
and you realize at a certain point, I've talked about this before, with toxic relationships,

988
01:35:36,573 --> 01:35:44,113
you can see the change in people in an instant when they realize that it is not the other person

989
01:35:44,113 --> 01:35:50,453
who is making their life miserable, it is that, or that the other person has power over them and

990
01:35:50,453 --> 01:35:56,533
it's that they realize that they are giving that person power and once they stop giving that person

991
01:35:56,533 --> 01:36:01,773
power. Once they say, Oh, I'm just not going to answer the 2am text. I'm not going to do something

992
01:36:01,773 --> 01:36:07,393
for you. I'm not going to, um, submit myself to your abuses. Once you stop that, you realize,

993
01:36:07,393 --> 01:36:13,213
Oh, I have the power. Um, and that is the courageous thing to do. The courageous thing

994
01:36:13,213 --> 01:36:21,453
to do is admit your own power. Um, and, and then use that power, um, for the good of yourself

995
01:36:21,453 --> 01:36:29,153
and then expanding the circle of influence you have to use your power to help those immediately

996
01:36:29,153 --> 01:36:34,653
close to you. Yeah. Riffrey and those, you know, further and further out. How can you,

997
01:36:35,113 --> 01:36:40,073
how big, how wide can you make your circle of influence when you're doing something good?

998
01:36:40,073 --> 01:36:45,353
Yeah. I mean, that's one metaphor we can use as a toxic relationship, but I just think that I see

999
01:36:45,353 --> 01:36:51,353
myself as having a complex, unchosen identity, this like tissue of moral obligations that I

1000
01:36:51,353 --> 01:36:57,213
inherit simply by virtue of my very contingent existence, born in a certain place, born to

1001
01:36:57,213 --> 01:37:03,693
two specific individuals, born into the family of blood relations with other individuals,

1002
01:37:04,233 --> 01:37:10,253
having had accidental interactions with the people around me. And I do think you pick up

1003
01:37:10,253 --> 01:37:15,173
moral obligations you do not choose, and you have responsibilities that are not based on your own

1004
01:37:15,173 --> 01:37:21,753
autonomy and choice. And so like, just like my deep conception of identity, kind of my anthropology

1005
01:37:21,753 --> 01:37:27,893
of what it means to be human is as an unchosen thing, as a thing that has aspects that cannot

1006
01:37:27,893 --> 01:37:35,733
be freely walked out of in the framework of a toxic relationship. So just in more practical

1007
01:37:35,733 --> 01:37:41,693
terms, having lived in a different part of the United States, and then seen how taxing it was

1008
01:37:41,693 --> 01:37:47,113
on me and also those around me when I wasn't around to fulfill certain obligations in relation

1009
01:37:47,113 --> 01:37:54,373
to family members or friends that I had back in kind of homeland territory. You know, again,

1010
01:37:54,433 --> 01:37:59,373
it's an irrational thing, but I felt a sort of guilt and saw that maybe I could have myself

1011
01:37:59,373 --> 01:38:05,913
made things better if I had been closer to this fountain and source of my moral obligations and

1012
01:38:05,913 --> 01:38:12,253
therefore able to fulfill them in a way that just given my maybe, you know, Catholic upbringing or

1013
01:38:12,253 --> 01:38:18,813
traditionalist upbringing or kind of whatever sort of roots I have growing up in Western Kansas,

1014
01:38:19,453 --> 01:38:26,333
you know, being in a specific place that you do not choose often, you know, is necessary for you

1015
01:38:26,333 --> 01:38:32,413
to fulfill all of your moral obligations. So I just do just think that as far as the moral framework,

1016
01:38:32,413 --> 01:38:38,953
I guess. Yeah. You mentioned one thing that I think is really, is really prescient to,

1017
01:38:38,953 --> 01:38:44,033
to acknowledge, which is that those moral obligations that we have are typically not

1018
01:38:44,033 --> 01:38:51,673
chosen. They are, um, imbued and, uh, we are kind of subject to something that we

1019
01:38:51,673 --> 01:38:58,373
maybe would not otherwise choose. Um, or at least if we were to choose it, we,

1020
01:38:58,373 --> 01:39:05,713
we would probably go about it, frame it in a different way. So, um, yeah, I, I think, um, I think,

1021
01:39:05,713 --> 01:39:16,633
you know, families, religion, relationships, obligations, a lot of what they do to

1022
01:39:16,633 --> 01:39:25,333
obligate people is to utilize guilt and to utilize that, um, that feeling of, of, uh,

1023
01:39:25,333 --> 01:39:29,873
of a moral obligation, um, when it's something that you don't want to do.

1024
01:39:30,093 --> 01:39:32,253
So, yeah, I would say shame also as well.

1025
01:39:32,253 --> 01:39:35,853
Like there's a very complex distinction between guilt and shame and shame,

1026
01:39:35,853 --> 01:39:40,433
I think is the emotion that has deeper roots in antiquity and that shame is

1027
01:39:40,433 --> 01:39:43,833
present in classical cultures, whereas guilt is a more modern thing.

1028
01:39:43,893 --> 01:39:47,393
So I would say I would revise what I said to say shame instead of guilt,

1029
01:39:47,473 --> 01:39:48,453
maybe a mixture of the two.

1030
01:39:49,573 --> 01:39:51,313
I like that a lot better actually. Yeah. Shame.

1031
01:39:51,433 --> 01:39:54,613
Cause when you think about what shame, um,

1032
01:39:54,613 --> 01:40:01,493
what shame keeps people from doing. It's basically everything. Basically anything that you

1033
01:40:02,193 --> 01:40:08,633
fear to do, you fear to do because you fear some sort of shame.

1034
01:40:09,113 --> 01:40:13,353
It's like when you think that you're going to commit a sin against your very most authentic

1035
01:40:13,353 --> 01:40:18,733
being, that's shame. Shame is the feeling you have of having violated yourself because you did

1036
01:40:18,733 --> 01:40:23,933
something that doesn't represent who you believe you are. Tony Robbins talks about the most powerful

1037
01:40:23,933 --> 01:40:31,713
force in the world is the need for people to identify or the need for people to act according

1038
01:40:31,713 --> 01:40:37,993
to what they believe their identity is. And so if you believe that you are something,

1039
01:40:39,013 --> 01:40:45,713
if you believe that you are a constant failure, if you believe that you aren't good in relationships,

1040
01:40:45,713 --> 01:41:00,493
if you believe that you can't get up early, if you believe anything, anything that you believe about yourself that is somewhat irrational but is evidenced by your past,

1041
01:41:00,493 --> 01:41:12,813
to break free of that there is both a liberation and a sense of of that of that guilt or sorry that

1042
01:41:12,813 --> 01:41:21,873
shame of you are killing the thing about you that you believe so long that made up your identity

1043
01:41:21,873 --> 01:41:28,293
yeah so yeah it's very very difficult for people to leave those things behind and and and also by

1044
01:41:28,293 --> 01:41:35,873
By the way, this is what makes it so very difficult for anyone to change while staying in the same environment.

1045
01:41:36,013 --> 01:41:36,273
Yeah.

1046
01:41:36,713 --> 01:41:50,073
Because you're constantly having the people in that environment and the environment itself, the physicality, the geography of it, reaffirming the thing that you're trying to break free from.

1047
01:41:50,133 --> 01:41:50,353
Right.

1048
01:41:50,573 --> 01:41:52,053
We've talked about this before.

1049
01:41:52,253 --> 01:41:56,813
When you get out of prison, when you get out of rehab, what do they tell you?

1050
01:41:57,053 --> 01:41:58,033
Do not go home.

1051
01:41:58,293 --> 01:42:13,133
Yeah. Do not go to the environment that got you here. Yeah. You know, to quote James clear, I've never seen someone consistently maintain good habits in a bad environment. Yeah.

1052
01:42:13,133 --> 01:42:23,733
And you don't have to label your environment as bad, but you can look at the outcomes that you're realizing and then apply to that back.

1053
01:42:23,733 --> 01:42:38,093
Look back and go, what environment was I in? Was that environment supporting outcomes that I desired, outcomes that built me up, outcomes that made it easier for me to fulfill obligations that I want to do?

1054
01:42:38,093 --> 01:42:44,833
or was that environment pushing me in a certain direction that I didn't want to go?

1055
01:42:44,833 --> 01:42:51,333
Yeah, no, and this idea of shame as guiding us at a very deep level, I think it also can be,

1056
01:42:51,513 --> 01:42:57,793
as you mentioned, utilized in favor of the idea of the network state because to be in a community

1057
01:42:57,793 --> 01:43:03,913
of highly aligned cohorts is sometimes necessary for people to not do something that's going to

1058
01:43:03,913 --> 01:43:09,333
cause them shame, like relapse into drug use, like not follow the precepts of their religion.

1059
01:43:10,093 --> 01:43:16,553
Like, yeah, sometimes in order to remain coherent and principled at a very deep level, maybe you do

1060
01:43:16,553 --> 01:43:20,333
need something like a network state because you need to find a way to get out of the environment

1061
01:43:20,333 --> 01:43:29,073
you're in. And so, yeah, I can see how the network state does allow for a deep conception and maybe

1062
01:43:29,073 --> 01:43:34,973
aids in a deep conception of our own moral identity. And so I guess that's what,

1063
01:43:35,533 --> 01:43:41,333
I don't know that I have more to add to that on that front, but I think that this is a very deep

1064
01:43:41,333 --> 01:43:49,613
concept, the network state, and it can, yeah, pattern onto our deep moral ideas.

1065
01:43:50,033 --> 01:43:57,973
I just, I love the direction that we've gone here with shame because shame keeps you in that system,

1066
01:43:57,973 --> 01:44:07,333
But it also, when that shame reaches a breaking point, it's what gets you out and it's what brings you to change.

1067
01:44:09,333 --> 01:44:15,973
People don't change until the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of changing.

1068
01:44:15,973 --> 01:44:23,413
and the shame of being part of a system that you don't believe in

1069
01:44:23,413 --> 01:44:31,573
or that you feel is hypocritical or that you feel has revealed its abuses to you

1070
01:44:31,573 --> 01:44:33,993
in a way that you can't forgive.

1071
01:44:35,353 --> 01:44:37,893
And by continuing to be a part of that,

1072
01:44:38,013 --> 01:44:43,933
then you would be implicitly condoning that sort of abuse, that sort of toxicity.

1073
01:44:43,933 --> 01:44:52,173
then that you know there's something great about shame as well because shame is the thing that will

1074
01:44:52,173 --> 01:45:01,393
get you to the gym when you um when you realize that you're fat shame is the thing that will

1075
01:45:01,393 --> 01:45:08,953
get you to stop watching netflix until 1 a.m when you oversleep and miss something important

1076
01:45:08,953 --> 01:45:11,253
and you lose your job, right?

1077
01:45:11,273 --> 01:45:13,593
Here's a way to funnel that shame into practical action.

1078
01:45:13,813 --> 01:45:15,953
This is the best tweet I've read in probably a year,

1079
01:45:16,093 --> 01:45:18,233
so I just want to throw it out there because it's very helpful.

1080
01:45:18,753 --> 01:45:22,553
Just ask yourself, what would I do if I had 10 times the agency?

1081
01:45:23,413 --> 01:45:25,053
It's just a formulation on the question.

1082
01:45:25,273 --> 01:45:27,713
What would I do right now if I was doing the right thing?

1083
01:45:28,433 --> 01:45:31,953
It's incredible how you can ask yourself a question like that

1084
01:45:31,953 --> 01:45:34,053
and realize that I would be doing something different,

1085
01:45:34,173 --> 01:45:36,333
and then you do go on to do something different.

1086
01:45:36,333 --> 01:45:41,233
And so like these very, it's a very practical tweet that I, I really liked that. I do. I think

1087
01:45:41,233 --> 01:45:45,973
it like helps give form to our shame in a practical way and guide us to who we want to be.

1088
01:45:46,613 --> 01:45:49,473
Not that it matters, but who's the source of that?

1089
01:45:49,653 --> 01:45:54,513
It wouldn't matter. It's the source is random tweet person who I do not remember and do not

1090
01:45:54,513 --> 01:45:59,133
recall. It kind of, it bounced around for a bit and hit some different iterations on what the

1091
01:45:59,133 --> 01:46:03,973
question you ask yourself is. But I think at the most abstract is just like, it's a question that

1092
01:46:03,973 --> 01:46:11,073
prompts you to do what your ideal self would do. And so, you know, any sort of very short prompt,

1093
01:46:11,173 --> 01:46:15,953
you can remember to at any moment, remind yourself of that something always present to mind.

1094
01:46:16,613 --> 01:46:19,433
Because it's something that, you know, in the morning, sometimes I have difficulty

1095
01:46:19,433 --> 01:46:25,813
getting up out of the comfort of my bed. But and, you know, and not because I even realized that I'm

1096
01:46:25,813 --> 01:46:30,573
having difficulty. It's just I don't have that thought that what would my ideal self be doing

1097
01:46:30,573 --> 01:46:37,193
right now? And this is such a simple formulation of that question that it occurred. It just occurred

1098
01:46:37,193 --> 01:46:41,893
to me in the morning and I did what my ideal self would do. I didn't even realize that I had the

1099
01:46:41,893 --> 01:46:47,133
choice in the moment until I posed it as a question to myself. Oh, that's a great, because

1100
01:46:47,133 --> 01:46:53,793
that's something that I've struggled with. You know, before I left my job, I was getting up at

1101
01:46:53,793 --> 01:46:56,653
420 in the morning every day, 421.

1102
01:46:57,113 --> 01:46:57,413
Yeah.

1103
01:46:57,753 --> 01:46:58,193
Yeah.

1104
01:46:58,273 --> 01:46:59,273
You know, going to work out.

1105
01:46:59,513 --> 01:47:03,013
I was teaching myself speed rap in the morning.

1106
01:47:03,133 --> 01:47:07,113
I was like, learn how to do alphabet aerobics by Blackalicious.

1107
01:47:07,513 --> 01:47:07,813
Yeah.

1108
01:47:08,233 --> 01:47:12,493
So you just need an alarm clock that instead of going beep, beep, beep, plays the audio.

1109
01:47:12,773 --> 01:47:15,753
What would you do right now if you had 10 times the agency?

1110
01:47:15,973 --> 01:47:20,813
And so instead of waking you up with the discordant sound, it wakes you up with a thought that

1111
01:47:20,813 --> 01:47:22,473
summons the best aspect of yourself.

1112
01:47:22,473 --> 01:47:28,373
yeah yeah just but i mean what you really need is you need someone standing over your bed

1113
01:47:28,373 --> 01:47:34,093
ready to lash you and but you also need that person to be the ideal form of you

1114
01:47:34,093 --> 01:47:40,273
that that external punishment or like modification from someone who is imposing is not the same thing

1115
01:47:40,273 --> 01:47:44,593
of you self-imposing this vision of yourself of who you could be unless you like have the perfect

1116
01:47:44,593 --> 01:47:48,653
model if i have like david goggins above you know like or standing there or whatever like

1117
01:47:48,653 --> 01:47:52,513
then maybe, but unless it's like a really an ideal consistent with who you are.

1118
01:47:53,233 --> 01:48:02,713
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. How do you, I, I, I do that. A lot of this takes us around to

1119
01:48:02,713 --> 01:48:08,493
like, to me, it takes us around to how do I, how do I view my life as a game? How do I make it? How

1120
01:48:08,493 --> 01:48:13,493
do I make it a game? How do I make it? And how do I score points? How do I, how do I keep track?

1121
01:48:13,493 --> 01:48:19,513
Balaji, I say that there's no throwaways in this.

1122
01:48:21,073 --> 01:48:32,233
There's this one, he puts it at the very end of, I think it's the network state in a thousand words.

1123
01:48:32,853 --> 01:48:38,453
But talking about what kind of network states could begin,

1124
01:48:38,453 --> 01:48:43,973
And one of them would be, oh, it could be like a longevity network state.

1125
01:48:44,073 --> 01:48:45,513
It could be a whatever.

1126
01:48:46,153 --> 01:48:50,473
And he ends with the very, very simple acknowledgement.

1127
01:48:50,933 --> 01:48:53,893
I forget where it's at, but you get what you measure.

1128
01:48:54,833 --> 01:48:57,673
You know, that which is not measured is not improved.

1129
01:48:58,073 --> 01:49:08,213
And so if you want to get out of bed earlier or if you want to get out of bed in less time, then you just start tracking it.

1130
01:49:08,213 --> 01:49:23,493
Today it took me 45 minutes. Tomorrow it took me 37. There was a time when I was trying to quit a bad habit, and I realized how difficult it was because it was an addictive habit.

1131
01:49:23,493 --> 01:49:30,533
and I'll leave it to people's imagination what it was because it doesn't matter

1132
01:49:30,533 --> 01:49:37,833
because I found by relaying this technique to other people that it worked for them as well to quit their bad habit,

1133
01:49:38,473 --> 01:49:43,453
which was that I decided I'm not going to try to go cold turkey and just walk away from it.

1134
01:49:44,833 --> 01:49:48,973
What I'm simply going to do is I'm not going to engage in that habit

1135
01:49:48,973 --> 01:49:54,233
until after the time that I did the day before.

1136
01:49:54,813 --> 01:50:00,113
So if I did that bad habit at 1130 a.m. on Tuesday,

1137
01:50:00,353 --> 01:50:01,953
I can still do it on Wednesday.

1138
01:50:02,093 --> 01:50:03,693
I just can't do it till 1131.

1139
01:50:04,653 --> 01:50:08,673
And on days that you have a little more willpower,

1140
01:50:09,273 --> 01:50:11,433
that 1130 goes to 215.

1141
01:50:12,373 --> 01:50:16,333
And if you can just make it to, like, all you have to do,

1142
01:50:16,333 --> 01:50:21,433
this is that premise of you don't need to be, I don't need to be better than you. I just need to

1143
01:50:21,433 --> 01:50:29,653
be better than I was yesterday. So all I need to do is make it to two 16. And then you just simply

1144
01:50:29,653 --> 01:50:35,113
find that by doing something like that, you, you find that you end up not needing it as much,

1145
01:50:35,153 --> 01:50:42,033
not caring for it as much, not, not being engaged in as much. So, um, yeah, we've, we've gone down

1146
01:50:42,033 --> 01:50:49,453
a different path. But the shame talk is, I think that is, I think it's such a great vector for which

1147
01:50:49,453 --> 01:50:57,533
to consider why would someone ever want to leave the thing that they're currently involved in?

1148
01:50:58,313 --> 01:51:05,873
And shame might be a good reason for that. Shame might, maybe it started out with great precepts

1149
01:51:05,873 --> 01:51:10,613
and great intentions, and it's just turned into something that you're no longer proud of.

1150
01:51:10,613 --> 01:51:27,293
Yeah, and I think also the discussion just goes to show that this idea of a nation state or a network state, the idea of membership in a state of some sort is an emotional thing and does involve us at a very deep and moral level.

1151
01:51:27,293 --> 01:51:35,993
And so the thought of a network state shouldn't just be viewed as some cold embodiment of code, but as that alignment around a higher purpose.

1152
01:51:36,113 --> 01:51:38,513
And that actually is something that Balaji is very clear on.

1153
01:51:38,513 --> 01:51:41,613
It has to be around a higher purpose that actually motivates you.

1154
01:51:42,153 --> 01:51:44,373
And so we shouldn't lose track of that.

1155
01:51:44,493 --> 01:51:56,193
In fact, this is a good transition to maybe ending, given that the next discussion is over Chapter 2, which is History as Trajectory.

1156
01:51:56,853 --> 01:52:00,553
And so we are going to get – again, we're on page 14.

1157
01:52:00,653 --> 01:52:02,113
This is an over 400-page book.

1158
01:52:02,113 --> 01:52:12,753
We're going to get a much deeper substantiation of the idea of network state, move it out of the realm of abstraction into the very real world of history, what has happened and what will happen.

1159
01:52:12,753 --> 01:52:18,033
And so, I mean, I think this is, I'm very excited to see where this is going to go.

1160
01:52:18,153 --> 01:52:21,673
Some of the initial concerns I have been allayed by this conversation alleviated.

1161
01:52:21,673 --> 01:52:33,053
And I think that hearing biology give a really deep accounting of what the network state is as a result of the problems our society currently has.

1162
01:52:33,373 --> 01:52:35,033
I guess I'm just very excited to see where this goes.

1163
01:52:35,833 --> 01:52:38,313
Yeah, so am I. Any closing words that you'd like?

1164
01:52:38,313 --> 01:52:39,153
That's all I got, man.

1165
01:52:39,153 --> 01:52:57,253
All right. Well, everyone, what would you do if you had 10 times the agency that you do now? And I hope that you go out today and you do something magnificent, motivated either by shame or by that which you could be. Thank you for joining us and we'll see you for chapter two soon.