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Welcome back to Bitcoin Study Sessions. Today, we are honored and excited to have with us Sal Pineda.

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Sal has a unique perspective, not just on Bitcoin, but on the global suffering of poverty,

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on the understanding of justice in places where justice truly needs to be rendered.

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Today we're going to talk a lot about Bitcoin and how it relates to the individual psyche of someone moving through the process of poverty and out of surviving and into thriving.

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how we can do that as a community and what the value of things like what we're doing today,

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which is engaging with other individuals, how the value of that can really raise the tide for all

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the boats out there in the harbor. So Sal, I'm going to throw it over to you, Mr. Former Diplomat,

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to let us know a little bit about yourself, and then we're going to get into the conversation here.

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Of course. I think you sum it up, right? I think some people value things and fancy degrees, fancy titles. I think Bitcoiners in general value proof of work. And on that end, I'm just happy to be here. I'm a big fan of your work.

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I remember sitting in the library at Cornell, fairly alone.

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Nobody was a big coiner, but going over study sessions.

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Shout out to software.

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Hearing you guys go through that process helped me dive deeper and engage my own thoughts in that.

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So I think with my background, it's a little multidimensional.

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I have experience with a little bit of diplomacy, private sector, public sector, academics.

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And I think now I'm just here. You know, I'm here. I can't. I got to pinch myself. They're even doing this. I remember listening to your study sessions and I actually get to be one. I'm just honored. And thank you guys for doing this. This is amazing.

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Dude, the honor is ours. But give us some color on your background. You were dropped on the ground in El Salvador as a youth. And now you trod the somewhat free land of the United States. But give us kind of walk us through how you got to where you are and where you plan to go.

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For sure. I, yeah, that's hard to keep it concise. So I was born and raised in El Salvador towards the latter part of the Civil War. And, you know, I was lucky enough to survive that. My family survived that, right? Where nobody was killed. 80,000 people were murdered. About 30,000 more were disappeared, right? Depending on your sources. So over 100,000, more or less. My family wasn't one of them.

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But I did witness a transition, right? Civil war, peace agreement signed in Mexico, and then peace.

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But how the hell do you go from war to peace overnight, right?

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How do you, how do you, how do you, all right, so peace agreements were signed by some important individuals in Mexico.

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But what about the people, right? What about the combatants from all parties that for 12 years or so spent fighting?

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And for about a decade after, I saw that, right? And it influenced my journey of growing up there, went to school there.

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And I was able to, unfortunately, towards the end of my stay there, I was able to witness the kinetic and experience the kinetic impact of how those transitions from war to peace are not linear, right?

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They don't just go up and to the right towards peace, right?

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There's a whole up and down, up and down.

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So, you know, I spent some formative years there.

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some government forces

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assaulting my mom and I,

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trying to silence their political activism

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towards the emerging democratic

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ecosystem, right?

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A couple years after, they

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killed my father, they tortured him,

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shot him, survived,

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which is a blessing. We're all alive.

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And we

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left. We left in like 72,

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96 hours, you know, and

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that was a fairly traumatizing process,

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I think. How old were you

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when you left then?

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About 14, I believe.

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About 13, 14,

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13, 14,

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fairly young,

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but not too young

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to not understand

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what was happening.

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And I think that was,

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you know,

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I'm grateful

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I went through that experience

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and survived it, right?

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Not many survive

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and can stay alive

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to say this,

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but I did.

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And I think that

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anchored me

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to a framework of

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not thinking that,

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one, life is easy

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and not thinking that,

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hey,

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if things don't go my way is because it's the world's fault.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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And coming to this country that I'm very grateful to,

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to the United States for, for the, the hospitality gave me, you know,

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took about over a decade for my family to,

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to go from political asylum to, to U.S. citizens, proud U.S. citizens.

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I experienced a lot of other things in this country.

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Like I experienced understanding that before I'm a human being,

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I'm a Latino male, right?

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This country has an interesting way of reminding me that several times a day.

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And that just wasn't my experience outside of this country, right?

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So there's an otherness in this ecosystem that I was able to compare it to where I come from.

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And that was also very formative.

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And it still is, you know, still is.

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So I think I almost have served two completely different realities that I always carry with me in my life.

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just my my serve my whole life you know so i learned that background right and then my journey

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sort of integrating to this country um becoming a proud u.s citizen and and and and being part of

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the social fabric you know i i'm fortunate enough to to have prioritized schooling as a way to

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to trying to understand a lot of what i went through but also schooling as a tool of

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transformation right and people have different tools of transformation right but for me it was

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academics. And I spent some time in my undergrad. I majored in poli sci at the University of Maryland,

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met my amazing wife there. The only reason why I'm able to do this is because I'm fortunate enough

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to have an incredible partner. And then I ended up going to Georgetown, got a master's there

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in Latin America studies and international development from their school of foreign service.

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And I specifically chose Georgetown, one, because they were Jesuits, and I'm very familiar with

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the Jesuit tradition in Latin America, that just, that is very appealing to me on how

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Jesuits see the raw, right?

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They pray for the poor, but then they feed them, right?

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They roll their sleeves up to help feed them, right?

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Not as a charity, but just as part of effecting change and transformation.

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And that for me is distinctly powerful.

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Obviously, Jesuits were killed up and down and priests in El Salvador during the war.

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There was a saying of the National Guard, I believe, that was – and this is – you can Google it. It was called, be a patriot, kill a priest. Right? And they used to put it on walls, and there's images. And think about it, right? Be a patriot, kill a – fill in the blank, right?

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So, yeah, that was in El Salvador, be a patriot, kill a priest.

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That was from the during the Civil War.

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The kind of regime in power would use that rhetoric against the Jesuits or against priests.

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That's incredible.

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Lucas and I were talking about the El Salvador and Civil War before we started talking with you, Sal.

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It's something that in the United States, I mean, I don't think we nowadays really have a grip on what that country went through, what you went through.

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and then are now bringing back and adding your perspective to the Bitcoin network with what you saw there.

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I was reading from – you kind of give some of the stats.

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There's a book here Lucas and I were talking about, El Salvador and the Aftermath of Peace.

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Yes, I have that book. That's a great book.

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Yeah, Ellen Moody is the author.

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From the introduction here, peace officially arrived in El Salvador on January 16, 1992,

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the day representatives of the government and the Faribund-de-Martin National Liberation Front signed peace accords.

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The agreement brokered by the United Nations ended nearly 12 years of a civil war,

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often characterized as one of the last battles of the Cold War.

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And this is incredible here.

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Lucas and I were talking about this.

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The United States had sent the country $6 billion in economic, military, and covert aid.

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I assume that's from 1980 and 1992.

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$6 billion in the dollars of that era.

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At least 75,000 Salvadorans died in the conflict and more than a million were displaced.

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Nearly 20% had left their country, including you and your family.

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And, you know, in the United States, I don't know if we often reflect on what a traumatic history that was for the people involved for the nation.

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And that's what you reflect on now in your academic work. Lucas and I talked about your paper on transitional justice, this framework for how nations reconcile themselves to that incredible trauma of mass atrocity, of genocide.

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and you discuss the framework, the arc that a country kind of has to go through to do that.

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And then you circulate another paper to us, a working paper that you're working on,

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which is kind of roughly about Bitcoin's knowledge network,

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but which also employs that same transitional justice framework, but on the individual level.

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And so we kind of want to get into that because it's incredibly fascinating.

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And this working paper you sent us is just, it's so beautifully written.

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Like it's so, it's some of the quotes, the turns of phrase in there,

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It's just really beautiful, man. It's like a manifesto of sorts. It's not only an academic style working paper, but it's something that energizes. It's something that calls to action and brings to action. And I can't wait till you actually you get this done and get this out because people need to read this.

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I think as a starting point to get into this, one of the important parts, this paper is roughly about kind of justice, violence, truth, knowledge, all of these things.

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We start with the nature of violence.

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That's one of the, I think, core pieces that maybe you bring from El Salvador to talk about Bitcoin and that you really elaborate very well in this paper.

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What is violence?

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That's right.

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Well, thank you for the kind words.

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That's very meaningful to me.

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You know, I posted this online and I to hear that folks engage this, I it just it's beyond my wildest dream.

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So thank you. Yeah, I can't wait to to this is probably my most intense and fun research that I've done so far because I'm able to reflect on a lot of pain that I've gone through and heal, which is a blessing.

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But but also a lot of pain that I've seen. Right. And I'm not new to the ecosystem.

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You know, I got into Bitcoin, went down the rabbit hole in 2017.

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So I pay my fair share of dues with surviving the bear markets and just watching a lot of folks bringing fiat incentives and getting hurt, like getting hurt.

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You can't really disrespect Bitcoin, right?

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Bitcoin tends to support those that are respected the most.

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And those that don't, you know, we've seen many of those cases, right?

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So something I witnessed and, you know, after graduating from Cornell, I dedicated, I decided to dedicate this next chapter of my life to Bitcoin, right?

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And what that means for me, you know, we all have talents and gifts, right?

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That we can add value, whether that's marketing, research, building, engineer, coding.

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I mean, so many talents and gifts, right?

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My particular ones, I think, come from strategy, research, and whatnot, right, at the nexus of sort of policy, business, and politics as well.

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And so I said, all right, well, let me just start traveling to this conference.

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Let me start going full in, right?

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And I went to a conference in Vegas.

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I went to the ImagineIF conference in Tennessee by Bitcoin Park.

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I ended up going to the Bitcoin Policy Institute conference in D.C. as well.

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And then I went most recently to the Bitcoin in DC conference, policy-oriented in DC about a few months ago.

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It has a bunch of other sponsors as well.

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And something that was fairly easy for me to witness was there's a lot of pain about Bitcoiners, right?

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There's a lot of, and don't get me wrong, right?

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I'm not saying Bitcoiners walk around angry.

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Of course, not most of them.

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But when you look at the pattern of what unites Bitcoiners, there is an obsession with truth-telling.

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But truth-telling can only come, and this is not just Sal's opinion.

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This is just sort of like academic consensus and research and whatnot, more or less some consensus.

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There's an order of operations to healing trauma at a nation-state level, right?

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You can't just sign peace agreements and expect for people to go straight into peace after the signature.

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And the next day, everything's perfect.

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That's just not how it works, right?

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There's a process of, all right, once peace is signed, you start with truth telling, right?

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And you say, okay, so what happened?

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Right?

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What just happened?

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What did the conflict just survive?

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And usually there's a lot of violence, recounting, retelling, and trying to quantify violence.

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So to your original question, what is violence?

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Well, even that is contested in that process.

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In the process of truth-telling for a country, the first pillar to get to peace, to get to healing, to get to rebuilding.

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You have to start saying, well, what is violence?

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And not only just violence, there's a gradient of violence.

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There's cross-emissive humanity violence, and there's just then regular civilian-to-civilian violence.

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And that's like very obvious violence, right?

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But what about the not-so-obviously-invisible violence, the structural violence?

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And I think Bitcoiners can connect with this, right?

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And you hear them, right?

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There's Bitcoiners that are saying, you know what?

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I can't believe that my wealth is melting and I'm a libertarian.

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I want very little government.

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I don't want a Fed and I don't like politicians.

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And I have 200 AK-47s and try to take my Bitcoin away from like 20 acres.

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Well, let me tell you, they will and they can.

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Right.

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If you think guns can keep the government away from you, I got another bridge to sell here.

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Yeah. And there's many places in many points in history in the U.S. and outside of the U.S. that that prove that. Right. That's not Sal's or Lucas's opinions. So violence then becomes.

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is it becomes interrelated to violence.

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Violence becomes interrelated to truth, right?

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And it's like when there are massacres,

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when there are at a nation state level,

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when there's abuses,

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when there's crimes against humanity,

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who tells the story, the winner or the loser?

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The victim or the perpetrator?

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Yeah.

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And it's a super interesting phenomenon to study, right?

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And there's conflicts.

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Maybe before we get, though, deep into the relationship between violence and truth, and I think you do a really good job in this paper talking about how violence hides what it cannot justify, but that then stimulates people to later seek that very thing out that violence is trying to obscure.

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But before we get into that relationship between violence and truth, on the nature of violence, Lucas and I were discussing this because this is something I've always had an allergy to any sort of rhetorical description of violence as abstract, metaphorical, or not directly tied to physical aggression.

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So you in your as you mentioned, you discuss structural violence. As I read in this paper, there's two forms kind of descriptions of violence. One violence is a form of multidimensional poverty, which is the violence of poverty, of affecting health outcomes, affecting ability to get education, affecting ability to move freely, affecting all sorts of things.

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And in structural violence, it's kind of similar, comes from a particular academic point of view of violence as embedded in the social and economic systems, preventing people from realizing their full potential.

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But I just I see that those are damaging things. But again, like I just have this. There's something important about for me preserving violence as physical aggression of one body against another of bodies against bodies of blood on the ground.

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Whereas these other forms of kind of structural violence, multidimensional poverty as violence, these things are terrible and you can describe them as theft, which is also another terrible aggression.

212
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But it just strikes me.

213
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And so I want to hear you kind of make your case.

214
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Why is this violence and not theft?

215
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Why are these second order effects of an economic system not characterizable as something terrible?

216
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You know, inflation steals from us.

217
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But is inflation really violence?

218
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And this, by the way, this is where you're settling a disagreement between Grant and I.

219
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That's right.

220
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Because we sat at this bar and we went back and forth on this.

221
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And, you know, to kind of recap where we are struggling with this and we want to talk to you about it is I say violence is something that happens that has a negative or it's like an intent that has a negative effect.

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And so it's like two things where I can walk up and punch a five-year-old and that's violent and that had negative effect. But I could also walk up and punch Mike Tyson and that has zero effect. And that's, is that violence?

223
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And then I look at the difference between, okay, I walk up and I punch you in the face and tomorrow you're over it. There's no lasting effects of it.

224
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But the violence that occurs from this out in the open debasement of of currency that is stealing the time and energy from the individual in the present and also taking away the ability to have any sort of say in the future debt and stealing that away.

225
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When I read that working paper of yours, I wrote down a note. I think it was something like, this is multi-generational economic genocide that doesn't take life, but it takes hope. And a life without hope is no life at all. That's how you break a human spirit.

226
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And if I kill one individual, then I've killed one individual. But if I kill the hope of an entire class of people, the poor, and I do that for multiple generations over and over, then I've effectively, in my view, I've committed a centuries-long genocide against the poor indiscriminately.

227
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indiscriminately that to me has to be counted as violence because of the negative effect that is so

228
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much greater than a bullet. So we'll put it to you. You may or may not settle the debate, but

229
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yeah. So basically the question comes down to like, does violence have to be kinetic? Does it

230
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have to be physical. Are we doing something to bastardize the definition of it by applying it to

231
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these sort of economic assaults on poverty that are multidimensional and multigenerational?

232
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That's fair. Good question.

233
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Yeah. So I love it. I'm glad I have my capa-copa here because that's...

234
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It's I.

235
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:38,300
So not only are you right, Lucas, but Grant is also right.

236
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And he's almost there.

237
00:20:39,740 --> 00:20:45,000
And I know I'll get Grant to get there and I'll do that in about three minutes because I.

238
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It's beautiful, sir, of the framing.

239
00:20:48,580 --> 00:20:50,520
Right. And Grant, you're you're a man of law.

240
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Right. And I love it. Grant, you know, a lawyer.

241
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You know, my dad is a lawyer. And I thought about wanting to be a lawyer for a while.

242
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,420
So law is binary, right?

243
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Either it happened or it didn't happen.

244
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I either go out and punch someone and I'm going to go to jail for assault or I did it.

245
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And if I didn't, then sure, I could have threatened the person.

246
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But if I didn't punch you, bye-bye.

247
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That's not assault.

248
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Within that framework, right, of law, I think what, and again, this is beautiful

249
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because imagine this conversation

250
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at a nation state level

251
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after a massacre of a thousand people

252
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like a village in El Mosote,

253
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which was hundreds of people,

254
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just literally civilians, children, women,

255
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,300
rape, kill, burn, just, you know,

256
00:21:42,460 --> 00:21:44,060
then we get into the gradients of violence.

257
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Was that a crime against humanity

258
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or just a simple crime?

259
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Right?

260
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:51,440
And I think, just took some notes here,

261
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there's the law interpretation of violence

262
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violence, and then there's a policy interpretation of violence.

263
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,220
And I'll give you an example.

264
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So following what Lucas said, I can go out and punch someone and that's assault.

265
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:09,860
Absolutely.

266
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Yes, that's violence and there's assault.

267
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But what, so there's a kinetic component there.

268
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What happens if I invest on Celsius and FTX?

269
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I read the terms of agreements

270
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I give them my money

271
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and then all of a sudden

272
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I'm bankrupt because they're bankrupt

273
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and they didn't do what they said

274
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they were going to do with my money

275
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and then

276
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what I

277
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what they had told me

278
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and the money that I had saved

279
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for an emergency

280
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those companies go bankrupt

281
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then my daughter has an emergency

282
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that needs $5,000

283
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,100
for a medical intervention

284
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and I don't have $5,000

285
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and my daughter dies

286
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Is there violence in that process?

287
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:07,660
Is there a kinetic consequence to sort of what these two particular companies put it guilty to?

288
00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:11,180
And the impact that it had on the people that it defrauded?

289
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:20,320
So I would say it has physical, it's theft, but theft can be terrible and result in death and dying.

290
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:34,200
And so the domain of physical violence is not the only type of vicious conduct that can lead to negative physical outcomes, is what I say.

291
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:55,840
At a certain extent, I mean, it's kind of a rhetorical or definitional thing. And I was, you know, thinking to so violence etymologically violate. It comes from violation to to in the Spanish, violar. It's even to rape. You have that in English, too, to violate somebody could be to rape them. And so it's this terrible assault on dignity.

292
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:10,320
And I mean, even as I talk to myself here, I move more towards your position because those types of economic assaults are violations. I mean, they are compromising somebody's dignity on a very, very deep level.

293
00:24:10,940 --> 00:24:24,520
And so what else are they compromising? Because I like where you're heading. And as a man of law, let's dive deeper into that. Right. Because the fiat framework normalizes violin to think that it's just part of the weather.

294
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,920
Oh, the battery, you know, the wind pressure is 78.

295
00:24:29,580 --> 00:24:30,260
Well, now hold on.

296
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:34,660
Why is the wind pressure so high, figuratively, when there's supposed to be no wind?

297
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,760
And it just becomes normalized.

298
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:40,840
So let's dive deeper on that because I like that.

299
00:24:41,980 --> 00:24:45,840
So, okay, violencia, that's right, violation.

300
00:24:47,780 --> 00:24:51,320
And if a crime, so inflation 2%.

301
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:52,380
Okay, sure.

302
00:24:52,460 --> 00:24:53,500
So that might not be a crime.

303
00:24:53,500 --> 00:25:22,060
That's a policy. That's a state policy. That's a federal policy. It's a national policy. But is there violence in that? And if there is, for who? Are the people closer to the printing machine experiencing the 2% the way that a single father, single mother that has to work two jobs and a part-time to make ends meet experiences at 2% inflation? What do you think, Brent? Where does the violence kick in in that framework that you're proposing?

304
00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:34,560
So, as in, where does the – and in the inflationary situation, who is the victim of that type of violation?

305
00:25:35,220 --> 00:25:44,660
I mean, it's as Lucas notes, it's class-based in a sense where it falls upon the people who are closest away from the sources of money production, right?

306
00:25:44,660 --> 00:25:52,640
The Cantillon effect is this idea that the people closest to the money printing benefit from new infusions of wealth before its value has been debased.

307
00:25:52,640 --> 00:26:02,700
And so it does have, as Lucas mentioned, kind of metaphorically a genocidal impact if we look at it as a type of violence that impacts a group.

308
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:22,380
And so, I mean, if I can get on board with talking about this as violence, as a form of rhetoric, the only reservation I still have is does that diminish in some way physical violence and the, you know, shooting somebody?

309
00:26:22,380 --> 00:26:27,860
there's a finality to that, that there is not with 2% annual inflation or whatever.

310
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:35,980
There is a demarcation in the sort of violation that gets from dispensing with somebody's life

311
00:26:35,980 --> 00:26:37,960
that you don't get when you dispense with their dreams.

312
00:26:38,020 --> 00:26:38,400
They're different.

313
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,400
They're both terrible things.

314
00:26:40,820 --> 00:26:46,300
And again, that's the only thing is, do you still see a distinction between physical violence

315
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:50,140
and this inflationary form of violence that you're mentioning, I guess?

316
00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:51,720
Do you see any sort of hard line?

317
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,060
Is there any sort of bright line distinction or is it this continuum where you can't talk about a distinction?

318
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,240
No, there is.

319
00:26:59,140 --> 00:27:01,620
So there's a gradient to violence, right?

320
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,120
My dad was kidnapped, assaulted, and shot by government death class.

321
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,400
That's violent.

322
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,100
That's a crime and violence.

323
00:27:10,820 --> 00:27:11,480
He survived.

324
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:12,300
Many did it.

325
00:27:13,180 --> 00:27:15,620
That was normalized for many years where I come from.

326
00:27:16,580 --> 00:27:19,120
And across the world, in other geographies as well.

327
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,420
But I can attest to that one.

328
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:28,160
the impact of the violence that my father endured.

329
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:30,740
Let me make it personal.

330
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:31,920
A few years before that,

331
00:27:32,260 --> 00:27:33,760
I was assaulted by government desks.

332
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:35,580
With my mom.

333
00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:38,060
They came, they assaulted us,

334
00:27:38,180 --> 00:27:39,360
put guns to our head.

335
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:40,560
I was a freaking kid.

336
00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:45,380
That's distinctly traumatic

337
00:27:45,380 --> 00:27:49,260
than the slow pace of inflation.

338
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:50,680
It is.

339
00:27:50,680 --> 00:28:06,600
Absolutely. So I think it will be reasonable to agree on that premise of there's physical kinetic violence and there's non-physical sort of, you know, a different type of violence.

340
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:22,100
But what I want to start normalizing, and I see that as distinctly lacking within the narrative of the emerging political economy of Bitcoin.

341
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:29,540
And you see a little bit the big names, Mr. Larry Fink, Mr. Saylor, starting to hint at it, right?

342
00:28:29,540 --> 00:28:38,120
I want to start normalizing saying, hey, this inflation, this debasement trade, let's hedge against money printing.

343
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:43,700
I know Mr. Fing has used, you know, this allocate 2% to your portfolio just in case.

344
00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:46,160
Mr. Saylor's incredible words.

345
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,500
I mean, this is a man of independent means, very successful.

346
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:55,900
But I remember one of his first interviews that said, I was sitting there watching the U.S. government just print money during COVID.

347
00:28:56,580 --> 00:28:58,300
And I've worked so hard for decades.

348
00:28:58,300 --> 00:28:58,480
Yeah.

349
00:28:59,540 --> 00:29:03,720
And I couldn't quite just make it to the big seven.

350
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:05,480
And it's not just me.

351
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,560
It's hundreds of our companies, thousands.

352
00:29:08,460 --> 00:29:09,180
It's millions.

353
00:29:12,860 --> 00:29:15,700
He wasn't talking about how the sun is beautiful and the sky is blue.

354
00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:28,380
There is a different type of structural economic violence that he experienced, Mr. Saylor, against his effort, his life's work.

355
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:30,660
his shareholders most importantly.

356
00:29:31,380 --> 00:29:32,560
Mr. Saylor is a representation

357
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,680
of all

358
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,420
the shareholders that he,

359
00:29:36,540 --> 00:29:38,420
you know, that believe in him and

360
00:29:38,420 --> 00:29:40,040
have invested in him.

361
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:41,860
Mr. Fink is

362
00:29:41,860 --> 00:29:44,440
intermediary for people that

363
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,480
buy that, the service, the vehicle

364
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,600
that he offers, which has become the best performing

365
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,480
vehicle. So if you start

366
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,400
looking at that, right, it's, all right, these people

367
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,280
are not talking about joy is amazing things.

368
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,840
They're talking about, in very fancy terms,

369
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,540
Oh, yeah, you know, this is better

370
00:29:59,540 --> 00:30:01,140
Yeah, but why is it better?

371
00:30:02,420 --> 00:30:05,060
And that's sort of where this point of privilege comes

372
00:30:05,060 --> 00:30:07,640
For some folks that have not experienced kinetic violence

373
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:08,420
And that's okay

374
00:30:08,420 --> 00:30:11,480
You know, no kidnapping

375
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,820
You don't have to experience a kidnap to fuel violence

376
00:30:15,820 --> 00:30:19,040
Right, you could feel the violence of having to work two jobs

377
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,060
And a part-time job

378
00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:21,880
And I know many people like that

379
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,100
In Washington, D.C.

380
00:30:24,620 --> 00:30:26,200
And they're struggling to make ends meet

381
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:34,480
I know people that cannot afford the electric bill, so they use gas furnaces to heat up, running the risk of, you know, years ago.

382
00:30:34,780 --> 00:30:43,560
There was a famous case in D.C. that they use a furnace because they couldn't afford electricity, as it is allowed for them to jack up the price, right, for those companies.

383
00:30:44,420 --> 00:30:50,540
And they ended up, you know, I didn't know these people personally, but they ended up, you know, the whole family died, right, because of the gas.

384
00:30:50,540 --> 00:31:02,280
And so if the debasement of people's money, which is a representation of their time, and what is their time, it's your life.

385
00:31:02,340 --> 00:31:07,400
That's the one resource we cannot literally duplicate, we can't expand.

386
00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:14,780
So if they don't have ownership of their time, then how nonviolent is that?

387
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,540
I'm open to expanding my framework, but...

388
00:31:20,540 --> 00:31:23,900
I can't land on another word but violence.

389
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,460
And there's fancy academic terms, right?

390
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:38,774
Structural violence political violence There fancy frameworks But at its core if you in Kansas City D or California you can make ends meet through no fault of your own

391
00:31:38,774 --> 00:31:41,514
because you got your inflation and all this stuff,

392
00:31:41,854 --> 00:31:43,654
and you just can't seem to make ends meet.

393
00:31:47,174 --> 00:31:50,954
There's an element of violence there, not solely violence,

394
00:31:50,954 --> 00:31:52,234
but it has violence.

395
00:31:52,234 --> 00:32:04,254
And I want to start normalizing even having that conversation because otherwise one of the many hallmarks of violence is shame, right?

396
00:32:05,694 --> 00:32:09,094
So that's a little bit of the framing that I'm looking to.

397
00:32:09,094 --> 00:32:35,654
And by the way, this paper is going to come with a downloadable guidebook on how folks can engage the Bitcoin ecosystem, whether you are literally only investing and allocating a dollar a week of your wages because that's all you can, or whether you are a founding member of a Bitcoin treasury company and you have thousands of millions of coins or millions of dollars.

398
00:32:35,654 --> 00:32:41,854
Right. Like, yeah, I'm showing how adding value to the network is not depending on people's wealth.

399
00:32:41,914 --> 00:32:46,754
It's depending on people's sort of desire to do so.

400
00:32:46,974 --> 00:32:57,914
And I think right now there's a little bit of a siloed narrative as far as, yeah, there's people in Kenya that are using it and, you know, good for them.

401
00:32:57,914 --> 00:33:06,034
Yeah, there's people here in Washington, D.C. that are using Bitcoin because they cannot afford to pay the 10, 15, 20 percent transmission fees to Mexico.

402
00:33:06,534 --> 00:33:10,414
I know many, many people doing that right now in D.C., not just Kenya.

403
00:33:11,174 --> 00:33:18,774
And I think that what I saw in this conference is folks trying to weave things together.

404
00:33:18,994 --> 00:33:20,634
Right. But then I started Googling.

405
00:33:20,754 --> 00:33:22,014
I'm like, OK, so where's the handbook?

406
00:33:22,014 --> 00:33:22,874
Who has written that?

407
00:33:22,874 --> 00:33:29,234
And nobody has really put it together with words and with sort of a framework, right?

408
00:33:29,334 --> 00:33:38,854
And that's sort of the effort that I say, well, hold on, but if we're all going to conferences, doing these study sessions, doing all this, then why are we doing it?

409
00:33:39,354 --> 00:33:46,794
And lo and behold, we are now 46 minutes into our chat and we're not talking about fancy, amazing, sweet things.

410
00:33:46,794 --> 00:33:51,494
We're talking about the gnarly things that Bitcoin seems to tackle.

411
00:33:51,494 --> 00:33:54,234
So they all seem to be associated with violence.

412
00:33:54,774 --> 00:33:58,974
Yeah. And just to tie up this thread, because I just want to read what a quote you have.

413
00:33:59,034 --> 00:34:12,394
You kind of referenced this when you talked about looking at something like inflation as if it was the weather, as if it's like in a neutral scientific, you know, natural phenomena that just happens outside of our control.

414
00:34:12,394 --> 00:34:19,194
You write, the modern monetary order has inflicted a quiet violence so normalized that most mistake it for the weather.

415
00:34:19,634 --> 00:34:24,434
Inflation, debt, and inequality are treated as technical phenomena, not moral ones.

416
00:34:24,794 --> 00:34:29,954
Yet behind every percentage point lies a story of delayed dreams, broken family, and unfulfilled potential.

417
00:34:29,954 --> 00:34:38,534
So from my perspective, I'll just say debate resolved for the purposes of this conversation that whatever it is has the force of violence.

418
00:34:38,534 --> 00:34:52,514
Like practically speaking, we can say that there's a lot of value in looking at something like inflation and then not looking at it as a dry academic or economic category, but looking at it as a moral one.

419
00:34:52,514 --> 00:35:03,274
And if talking about it as violence gets us there, then I'm willing to do that because I do think that, as you say, behind every percentage point lies the story of some horrific thing that has happened.

420
00:35:03,274 --> 00:35:10,454
And you speak from a point of authority on the continuum of physical violence to this type of economic violence.

421
00:35:10,454 --> 00:35:16,754
And again, so for this conversation, I think we can go forward and say we're dealing with violence here in the problem you resolve.

422
00:35:17,094 --> 00:35:22,474
The solutions that you talk about, the way that you talk about in this essay, I think, really get at the nature of that.

423
00:35:22,814 --> 00:35:29,734
Well, and I think the first paper that we talked about of yours, you draw the direct line between poverty and violence.

424
00:35:29,734 --> 00:35:42,814
You know, when you have no hope, when you've had your economic upward mobility stolen from you, then you're left with a set of choices that are undesirable.

425
00:35:43,214 --> 00:35:50,314
And many people will turn to violence out of shame because they can't provide for their family.

426
00:35:50,314 --> 00:36:02,514
And so I think you have to think about to me, you have to think about violence and you say, well, in in war is violence only committed by the person pulling the trigger or is it by the general giving the orders?

427
00:36:02,514 --> 00:36:08,674
Is it by the politician putting in the putting in the vote in order to to commit that?

428
00:36:08,754 --> 00:36:10,814
And I would argue that that's far greater.

429
00:36:10,814 --> 00:36:17,054
These other people are just carrying out what they've done.

430
00:36:17,454 --> 00:36:35,434
In a very real sense, when a government continues to confiscate the money, the wealth, the time, the hope, then what they're doing, they may not be pulling the trigger, but they are loading the gun.

431
00:36:35,554 --> 00:36:36,894
They are putting it in the hand.

432
00:36:36,894 --> 00:36:39,274
They are pointing it at a target.

433
00:36:39,274 --> 00:36:47,154
And then to simply say that violence is only committed by the very final by the final commission there.

434
00:36:47,474 --> 00:37:00,214
I think that that I think that undermines the responsibility that needs to be adjudicated towards those who who started that into motion.

435
00:37:00,214 --> 00:37:12,214
And yesterday I told Grant Kobe, I'm not sure of his last name, but he's a big in the Bitcoin space, one of the founding members of the band Nirvana who moved big into tech.

436
00:37:12,694 --> 00:37:19,514
And he just recently sold a tech company to Coinbase for three hundred and seventy five million dollars.

437
00:37:19,514 --> 00:37:26,534
he talked about how when he got into bitcoin and he found all this wealth and was able to

438
00:37:26,534 --> 00:37:34,354
take care of his parents um that he noticed their personalities change and he have bookmarked his

439
00:37:34,354 --> 00:37:39,614
tweet i know exactly the tweet you're talking about in a video like yeah i know exactly what

440
00:37:39,614 --> 00:37:43,834
you're talking about he saw the true nature of their character arise and he's very happy for

441
00:37:43,834 --> 00:37:49,674
that. But he also commented on, you know, I couldn't help but feel as though, you know, that

442
00:37:49,674 --> 00:37:55,094
was somewhat stolen from me as a child. Like, I never got to know my parents as a child because

443
00:37:55,094 --> 00:38:01,354
they were always living in this poverty stricken world without hope, effectively, where we've

444
00:38:01,354 --> 00:38:10,034
we've just taken away the ability for them to express themselves as people that are living in

445
00:38:10,034 --> 00:38:12,674
in a world where they should be thriving,

446
00:38:12,874 --> 00:38:14,694
but instead they're just fighting over

447
00:38:14,694 --> 00:38:15,714
and trying to survive.

448
00:38:15,954 --> 00:38:17,974
And so, yeah, I think-

449
00:38:17,974 --> 00:38:19,034
Not only are you right,

450
00:38:19,314 --> 00:38:23,894
and I remember the Bitcoin's drop in March, 2020

451
00:38:23,894 --> 00:38:25,814
from 6,000 to 3,000

452
00:38:25,814 --> 00:38:28,794
and his infamous, famous tweet

453
00:38:28,794 --> 00:38:34,114
saying that his buy wall was for Satoshi.

454
00:38:34,494 --> 00:38:35,194
I mean, it was incredible.

455
00:38:35,294 --> 00:38:37,014
Anyway, long time follower of him.

456
00:38:37,014 --> 00:38:38,914
And I remember reading that

457
00:38:38,914 --> 00:38:40,394
and seeing that.

458
00:38:40,474 --> 00:38:43,734
And I said, how must he feel?

459
00:38:44,274 --> 00:38:45,514
Is he happy?

460
00:38:45,774 --> 00:38:46,794
He has all this wealth.

461
00:38:47,534 --> 00:38:49,874
Of course, I mean, there's a level of safety.

462
00:38:49,874 --> 00:38:56,214
But you can feel the sorrow, the sadness,

463
00:38:57,194 --> 00:39:02,294
the realization of, holy moly, not only was I stolen,

464
00:39:02,554 --> 00:39:06,634
but it was because of these things that I now have

465
00:39:06,634 --> 00:39:08,994
and that I made them through digital things.

466
00:39:11,014 --> 00:39:16,394
So, again, he's not talking about how beautiful the sky is

467
00:39:16,394 --> 00:39:17,814
and how the birds are fine.

468
00:39:17,974 --> 00:39:19,694
There is a violence to it.

469
00:39:19,694 --> 00:39:28,834
Now, a primary sort of signal of sort of victims of abuse is shame.

470
00:39:31,374 --> 00:39:31,894
Right?

471
00:39:32,134 --> 00:39:33,854
And again, Bitcoin is hard to understand

472
00:39:33,854 --> 00:39:35,714
without a multidisciplinary approach.

473
00:39:36,634 --> 00:39:38,294
Bitcoin is a little bit of sorrowful.

474
00:39:38,374 --> 00:39:39,294
You don't know about tech,

475
00:39:39,374 --> 00:39:40,374
or you don't know about politics,

476
00:39:40,434 --> 00:39:41,434
or you don't know about economics,

477
00:39:41,514 --> 00:39:42,654
all into one thing, right?

478
00:39:42,734 --> 00:39:49,314
So to continue with Kobe, legendary German,

479
00:39:50,074 --> 00:39:55,334
it's not just Kobe, right?

480
00:39:56,114 --> 00:39:58,494
It's the people that did not sell a company

481
00:39:58,494 --> 00:40:00,454
to Coinbase for hundreds of millions of dollars.

482
00:40:00,454 --> 00:40:04,054
It's the people that are able to buy a dollar a day

483
00:40:04,054 --> 00:40:07,554
outside of the U.S. or $100 a week in the U.S.

484
00:40:07,554 --> 00:40:10,214
and see their wealth not melting away.

485
00:40:11,434 --> 00:40:16,254
So within the shame of abuse and violence,

486
00:40:17,254 --> 00:40:23,614
Bitcoiners emerge as aware, sovereign individuals

487
00:40:23,614 --> 00:40:30,194
that evolve to become, some of them, Bitcoin maxis.

488
00:40:30,194 --> 00:40:34,674
have fun stay poor a famous saying

489
00:40:34,674 --> 00:40:43,234
if you look at the the sequence of that let's let's see what it really means for the people

490
00:40:43,234 --> 00:40:50,674
that say that most of the time it really means poverty sucks i really wish you understood this

491
00:40:50,674 --> 00:40:56,254
what's the other one that's famous and this is going to make it on my paper where i analyze this

492
00:40:56,254 --> 00:41:03,134
quotes. The other one is, everybody gets Bitcoin the price they deserve. Well, what it really

493
00:41:03,134 --> 00:41:10,074
means is, wow, I've tried to explain this to you. I put all this time and you still don't get it.

494
00:41:10,074 --> 00:41:20,114
And I cannot help you. This sucks. But people are very rarely do what Michael Cedder or Mr.

495
00:41:20,234 --> 00:41:26,134
Fink have said of saying, hey, I was wrong about Bitcoin. Now I understand it. Rarely. And to

496
00:41:26,134 --> 00:41:29,234
have Mr. Saylor and Mr. Finks do that publicly,

497
00:41:30,394 --> 00:41:32,474
you know, it is a sign of wisdom

498
00:41:32,474 --> 00:41:34,174
to change your opinion with new information.

499
00:41:34,474 --> 00:41:35,614
There's nothing wrong about it.

500
00:41:36,274 --> 00:41:36,434
Yeah.

501
00:41:36,594 --> 00:41:39,214
So you start seeing, right,

502
00:41:39,274 --> 00:41:41,494
you start getting into this ethos of Bitcoin

503
00:41:41,494 --> 00:41:43,434
that behind all this toughness,

504
00:41:43,814 --> 00:41:44,874
behind this toxicity,

505
00:41:46,874 --> 00:41:48,094
another one, Bitcoin is hope.

506
00:41:48,274 --> 00:41:48,934
Well, from what?

507
00:41:50,794 --> 00:41:52,474
What is it hope for?

508
00:41:52,874 --> 00:41:54,714
Well, from economic structural violence.

509
00:41:55,394 --> 00:41:55,554
Yeah.

510
00:41:55,674 --> 00:41:55,974
Of what?

511
00:41:56,134 --> 00:42:01,954
A fact of deflation, of not being able to pay for your kids, not being able to pay for rent, like working to like that.

512
00:42:02,694 --> 00:42:09,394
I'm connecting it to the sources so we can all have a framework to normalize this.

513
00:42:09,774 --> 00:42:12,854
Otherwise, it's just a bunch of us preaching to each other.

514
00:42:13,174 --> 00:42:13,614
Yeah.

515
00:42:14,174 --> 00:42:16,154
That we have already gone through this, right?

516
00:42:16,214 --> 00:42:17,414
Honey badges don't care.

517
00:42:17,554 --> 00:42:18,494
Another Bitcoin thing.

518
00:42:18,954 --> 00:42:20,254
Yeah, but a lot of people do care.

519
00:42:20,254 --> 00:42:22,754
A lot of people cannot even listen to this incredible studies.

520
00:42:22,754 --> 00:42:26,194
It's just because right now they're in their part-time job to make ends meet.

521
00:42:26,334 --> 00:42:28,894
And then Monday through Friday, they have to go to their other two jobs.

522
00:42:28,994 --> 00:42:34,854
And I know several dozen people that have that lifestyle right now in this country.

523
00:42:34,854 --> 00:42:49,894
Your paper does an excellent job of beginning with describing violence as a broader phenomena than we're used to, tying it to inflation, showing how it does affect a broad swath of people in the street, you and I.

524
00:42:49,894 --> 00:42:56,114
talking about it as structural violence, but then connecting it to the individual experience.

525
00:42:56,274 --> 00:43:00,394
And that's where I want to move this conversation because that's where the paper moves.

526
00:43:00,394 --> 00:43:05,054
And that's where you've kind of been going, talking about Kobe's reflection in relation to his experience

527
00:43:05,054 --> 00:43:08,674
and kind of observing the change in his parents.

528
00:43:09,274 --> 00:43:14,774
And then Lucas noting in the introduction that your paper does talk about the individual psyche

529
00:43:14,774 --> 00:43:19,034
of the person who is in the throes of Bitcoin adoption, the Bitcoiner.

530
00:43:19,894 --> 00:43:28,734
You write, Bitcoin's political economy is born from introspection before it becomes infrastructure.

531
00:43:29,354 --> 00:43:42,174
And I think that's a brilliant formulation that your monetization occurs from the ground up with every individual person having an individualized experience in relation to is Bitcoin money and their own life?

532
00:43:42,794 --> 00:43:44,454
What pain can it redress?

533
00:43:45,234 --> 00:43:48,594
Leading to, as you call it, a distributed civic awakening.

534
00:43:49,234 --> 00:43:53,114
So can you discuss, you know, where you go with that in your paper?

535
00:43:53,114 --> 00:43:54,654
Because it's just utterly fascinating.

536
00:43:54,834 --> 00:44:04,394
I think it's exactly what Bitcoiners need to be talking about is the individual Bitcoiners experience, its relation to violence and how Bitcoin is the link that kind of redresses that.

537
00:44:06,674 --> 00:44:07,414
Oh, wow.

538
00:44:07,494 --> 00:44:10,354
Yeah, you're asking the very, very good questions.

539
00:44:10,354 --> 00:44:17,794
I appreciate you sort of framing it as such because I was processing my thoughts here.

540
00:44:18,594 --> 00:44:22,374
So Bitcoin doesn't care, right?

541
00:44:22,454 --> 00:44:25,474
Bitcoin is just code, it's apolitical, and it will produce blocks.

542
00:44:26,034 --> 00:44:33,234
And it survived already one nation state attack by the Chinese, the band mining, and it survived it.

543
00:44:33,694 --> 00:44:35,634
So Bitcoin does not care.

544
00:44:37,694 --> 00:44:38,834
Yeah, but people do.

545
00:44:41,994 --> 00:44:45,074
And the members of this knowledge network of Bitcoin are many.

546
00:44:45,374 --> 00:44:47,094
The miners, the users, the investors.

547
00:44:48,594 --> 00:44:51,014
decoders, many folks.

548
00:44:53,494 --> 00:44:57,114
So how does something that's neutral,

549
00:44:57,474 --> 00:45:00,994
Bitcoin as a neutral digital commodity,

550
00:45:01,994 --> 00:45:06,014
fire, petroleum, just things, right?

551
00:45:06,834 --> 00:45:08,274
How does something neutral

552
00:45:08,274 --> 00:45:14,354
become such a powerful tool of peace

553
00:45:14,354 --> 00:45:16,814
if you are center left,

554
00:45:16,814 --> 00:45:19,014
weapon of peace

555
00:45:19,014 --> 00:45:21,254
if you are center to the right

556
00:45:21,254 --> 00:45:22,634
or if you're in the center,

557
00:45:22,914 --> 00:45:23,854
instrument of peace.

558
00:45:25,794 --> 00:45:26,854
And we have everything

559
00:45:26,854 --> 00:45:28,434
in the Bitcoin ecosystem.

560
00:45:29,634 --> 00:45:30,554
How do we go from,

561
00:45:30,674 --> 00:45:31,674
hey, this is just code

562
00:45:31,674 --> 00:45:32,554
like Microsoft Word.

563
00:45:32,894 --> 00:45:34,694
Why don't we get so protective

564
00:45:34,694 --> 00:45:36,194
and want to advocate

565
00:45:36,194 --> 00:45:37,154
for Microsoft Word?

566
00:45:37,934 --> 00:45:39,774
A strategic Microsoft Word reserve.

567
00:45:40,154 --> 00:45:41,274
Why don't we do that, right?

568
00:45:41,314 --> 00:45:42,554
If it's code, code is code.

569
00:45:46,154 --> 00:45:46,514
Strategic

570
00:45:46,814 --> 00:45:47,854
AI restore.

571
00:45:48,514 --> 00:45:50,454
Why is it Bitcoin?

572
00:45:51,494 --> 00:45:51,634
Right?

573
00:45:52,874 --> 00:45:59,474
And that's a little bit where I started kind of saying, okay, well, it has to be about the people.

574
00:46:00,334 --> 00:46:02,074
It's not about the code.

575
00:46:02,634 --> 00:46:04,474
The code is an element.

576
00:46:04,594 --> 00:46:06,714
It's not just only about the code.

577
00:46:06,714 --> 00:46:15,474
The code allows for people to assign a meaning that withstands lies.

578
00:46:16,814 --> 00:46:24,234
it's not a role to talk about non-Bitcoin assets,

579
00:46:24,654 --> 00:46:26,234
but trending against Bitcoin,

580
00:46:26,354 --> 00:46:28,314
only Bitcoin is trending up, right?

581
00:46:28,674 --> 00:46:30,614
So there's something there.

582
00:46:32,054 --> 00:46:34,874
And I think, you know,

583
00:46:34,934 --> 00:46:36,474
there's folks that have been in the spaces.

584
00:46:37,314 --> 00:46:38,954
I mean, Hal Finney, rest in peace.

585
00:46:39,334 --> 00:46:41,634
He wrote most of the things that are coming,

586
00:46:41,794 --> 00:46:42,694
that we're seeing coming.

587
00:46:43,234 --> 00:46:45,234
Bitcoin banks, Bitcoin, you know,

588
00:46:45,234 --> 00:46:47,854
So incredible that he already saw that.

589
00:46:51,014 --> 00:46:56,014
As this takes off in adoption, we're still early, I think.

590
00:46:57,074 --> 00:46:58,854
Attack-wise, I think they're still coming.

591
00:46:58,994 --> 00:46:59,734
They should say attacks.

592
00:46:59,814 --> 00:47:00,914
We haven't even seen them yet.

593
00:47:01,534 --> 00:47:03,754
And adoption-wise, we're still very early.

594
00:47:03,754 --> 00:47:18,734
So within that framework, Bitcoiners emerge as individuals that are seeking truth from what they have been wrong, from the values that they've experienced.

595
00:47:18,734 --> 00:47:34,334
And this is where I make a detailed sort of analysis of like 21 movers and shakers in the podcast space, 21 movers and shakers in the human rights space, 21 movers and shakers in the builders ecosystem, just because that's the beauty of this.

596
00:47:34,334 --> 00:47:35,374
This is decentralized.

597
00:47:36,374 --> 00:47:53,814
And I can't help but remember Victor Jara, a famous artist, singer, songwriter, educator, really, that was riddled with 40 bullets by the state, by the Chilean Pinochet regime in Chile.

598
00:47:55,254 --> 00:48:00,954
And there's a story that when they took him to the stadium, they broke his hands, right?

599
00:48:00,994 --> 00:48:02,554
The military broke his hands to make a point.

600
00:48:02,634 --> 00:48:03,794
He used to play the guerrilla.

601
00:48:03,794 --> 00:48:08,434
So there's some violence that he experienced before being dead, right?

602
00:48:08,554 --> 00:48:09,874
Not one bullet, not 40.

603
00:48:11,214 --> 00:48:19,254
And Monsignor Romero, now Saint Romero, who also never took up arms, was a simple educator through the gospel, right?

604
00:48:19,374 --> 00:48:20,954
His interpretation of the gospel.

605
00:48:20,954 --> 00:48:24,114
and as he was raising for a homily,

606
00:48:24,254 --> 00:48:25,674
as he was celebrating a homily,

607
00:48:25,794 --> 00:48:26,374
as he was raising,

608
00:48:29,054 --> 00:48:30,414
as he was celebrating mass,

609
00:48:30,554 --> 00:48:31,974
he was assassinated by a sniper

610
00:48:31,974 --> 00:48:34,034
straight to the heart.

611
00:48:37,374 --> 00:48:39,974
They were simply speaking truth.

612
00:48:44,194 --> 00:48:44,714
Unfortunately,

613
00:48:45,454 --> 00:48:47,534
one's body is not decentralized.

614
00:48:50,954 --> 00:49:13,714
Bitcoin is the first ever asset in human history to emerge that I can think of, and I've spent hundreds of hours in this, thousands, that has emerged as a decentralized mechanism of truth-seeking and truth-telling.

615
00:49:13,714 --> 00:49:18,554
Because it's apolitical, so it allows you to, the input is curiosity.

616
00:49:19,454 --> 00:49:20,594
The output is truth.

617
00:49:20,954 --> 00:49:32,114
Otherwise, Mr. Fink, who, when Mr. Fink says something, Wall Street listens, why else will he change his opinion?

618
00:49:33,234 --> 00:49:38,154
From, I think he said in 2018, Bitcoin can be considered an index of money laundering.

619
00:49:40,374 --> 00:49:42,394
Mr. Saylor, we have heard him, right?

620
00:49:42,414 --> 00:49:48,494
And he's very open, and we're lucky to have someone like him as an educator in the space that has open-sourced his whole framework.

621
00:49:48,494 --> 00:49:53,894
he went from seeing his company languishing quite a bit and saying,

622
00:49:54,134 --> 00:49:56,654
oh my goodness, I've done everything I can and then some,

623
00:49:56,694 --> 00:49:58,494
and I have access to all these resources.

624
00:49:58,734 --> 00:50:00,294
I said, I'm very, very wealthy.

625
00:50:00,834 --> 00:50:04,154
Yeah, I can't seem to make it.

626
00:50:04,374 --> 00:50:05,874
And why is it?

627
00:50:05,894 --> 00:50:09,794
And he led him to sort of study that economic balance,

628
00:50:09,874 --> 00:50:12,954
and this could be controversial, but that even applies to the private sector.

629
00:50:12,954 --> 00:50:18,514
Not everyone in the private sector is doing really well off.

630
00:50:18,654 --> 00:50:21,514
Look at the Magnificent Sevens and then look at every other company.

631
00:50:23,714 --> 00:50:30,294
So Bitcoiners immerse as folks that have been wrong one way or another.

632
00:50:30,474 --> 00:50:32,214
And I always say this, Bitcoin is for winners.

633
00:50:32,334 --> 00:50:33,834
I said this in one of our last podcasts.

634
00:50:34,294 --> 00:50:35,034
Bitcoin is for winners.

635
00:50:35,154 --> 00:50:35,994
And what type of winners?

636
00:50:35,994 --> 00:50:39,934
folks that are saying, you know what?

637
00:50:40,054 --> 00:50:44,734
I hate having my fee at the base, so I want to protect it.

638
00:50:45,194 --> 00:50:45,934
I don't really care.

639
00:50:46,014 --> 00:50:48,174
And I've had these conversations with folks, you know,

640
00:50:48,854 --> 00:50:52,054
fairly center to center left saying, I don't like the term winning.

641
00:50:52,174 --> 00:50:53,234
That's a little too greedy.

642
00:50:53,434 --> 00:50:55,074
And I don't like those capitalists.

643
00:50:55,474 --> 00:50:57,014
But I don't like losing.

644
00:50:57,814 --> 00:51:02,074
I don't like just seeing my melt away and support wars I don't agree with,

645
00:51:02,134 --> 00:51:03,554
support programs I don't agree with.

646
00:51:03,554 --> 00:51:06,334
I'm like, hmm, so you do like to win then.

647
00:51:07,254 --> 00:51:08,134
It's like, no, no, not really.

648
00:51:08,174 --> 00:51:08,814
I just don't like to lose.

649
00:51:08,914 --> 00:51:10,174
I'm like, okay, that's fine.

650
00:51:10,234 --> 00:51:11,834
We got to meet everybody where they are, right?

651
00:51:12,394 --> 00:51:17,174
And then you talk to folks from center, center, right, saying, I love multiplying my wealth.

652
00:51:17,254 --> 00:51:22,194
I work so hard and it's just not multiplying as fast compared to other folks closer to the printing machine.

653
00:51:22,194 --> 00:51:26,054
So this can allow a level of equalizing my opportunities.

654
00:51:26,474 --> 00:51:28,494
Hmm, so you do like to win that from home.

655
00:51:28,494 --> 00:51:48,774
And then you start seeing, okay, everything that's tying us together is a discomfort with the way the current system that we haven't voted for, by the way, treats all of us.

656
00:51:49,714 --> 00:51:54,654
And I'm putting the light into saying, hey, there's violence there.

657
00:51:55,054 --> 00:51:55,374
No, no, no.

658
00:51:55,454 --> 00:51:57,074
Let's call it what it is.

659
00:51:57,074 --> 00:52:00,134
You want to talk academics? Sure, let's do it

660
00:52:00,134 --> 00:52:01,514
I got some academic degrees too

661
00:52:01,514 --> 00:52:02,754
There's structural violence

662
00:52:02,754 --> 00:52:04,334
Hey

663
00:52:04,334 --> 00:52:06,434
You know

664
00:52:06,434 --> 00:52:10,194
You're being oppressed and whatnot and you're really poor

665
00:52:10,194 --> 00:52:11,514
Hey, let's talk about it

666
00:52:11,514 --> 00:52:13,754
This could be a weapons of the week process

667
00:52:13,754 --> 00:52:14,794
Like James Scott says

668
00:52:14,794 --> 00:52:17,054
I want to shed the light

669
00:52:17,054 --> 00:52:19,554
Because by then doing or at least

670
00:52:19,554 --> 00:52:21,074
Hoping I do that

671
00:52:21,074 --> 00:52:22,574
I could then

672
00:52:22,574 --> 00:52:25,114
Help drive the conversation forward

673
00:52:25,114 --> 00:52:26,894
In a multiplicative effect

674
00:52:27,074 --> 00:52:34,034
And saying, yeah, you know what, getting folks comfortable saying, yeah, you know what, there is a little bit of violence.

675
00:52:34,234 --> 00:52:45,174
Even though I have an Ivy League degree from the U.S. and I have a lot of privilege, but my wages have not gone up as far as inflation when you do the average movement rate over the last few years.

676
00:52:46,534 --> 00:52:51,014
So we're working through a shame, but that is a very sensitive topic for a lot of people, right?

677
00:52:51,014 --> 00:52:56,374
It's a little easier for folks that have been impacted with trauma, you know, because I always say this poverty sucks, period.

678
00:52:56,374 --> 00:53:02,474
I don't care if you're in Kansas City, if you're in Illinois, if you're in D.C., in Boston, or if you're in Kenya, or if you're in Guatemala.

679
00:53:02,674 --> 00:53:03,274
It sucks.

680
00:53:04,294 --> 00:53:11,174
But if you think that you're not poor, you're kind of doing well, then there is a shame with it.

681
00:53:11,394 --> 00:53:16,114
So this paper, the hope is, hey, no, let's name it.

682
00:53:16,374 --> 00:53:19,674
Let's just name it because then that's going to allow us to connect with everybody else.

683
00:53:20,274 --> 00:53:25,454
Being a bit comprehensive with somebody that's working two, two and a half, two full-time jobs and a part-time job does absolutely nothing.

684
00:53:25,794 --> 00:53:27,274
Actually, matter of fact, it's off-putting.

685
00:53:27,474 --> 00:53:28,874
And I say that as an educator here,

686
00:53:29,034 --> 00:53:30,594
founding member of the Cornell Bitcoin Club.

687
00:53:31,374 --> 00:53:33,294
You talk to people, grad school students

688
00:53:33,294 --> 00:53:34,374
that are getting fancy degrees

689
00:53:34,374 --> 00:53:35,714
and are going to go straight to Wall Street

690
00:53:35,714 --> 00:53:38,814
for a quarter million studied entry-level salary

691
00:53:38,814 --> 00:53:40,194
in banks or consulting,

692
00:53:40,374 --> 00:53:43,794
plus, you know, 100, 150 more bonus first year.

693
00:53:44,034 --> 00:53:45,334
You talk to them about poverty,

694
00:53:45,434 --> 00:53:47,034
they will look at you like, get out of here.

695
00:53:47,294 --> 00:53:50,034
Oh, I'm not poor because I have these things.

696
00:53:50,794 --> 00:53:53,374
Yet, I have many friends that, you know,

697
00:53:53,474 --> 00:53:55,394
they haven't taken that path and it sucks.

698
00:53:55,454 --> 00:53:59,034
They were like, wow, I live in New York City and I can barely make his meat.

699
00:53:59,434 --> 00:54:00,874
And I have two kids and a wife.

700
00:54:01,094 --> 00:54:12,794
And so, right, there's a dignity to having this financial privilege checked that this framework is hoping to help demystify.

701
00:54:12,794 --> 00:54:40,954
Yeah. So the idea is that by calling it what it is, violence, it removes the stigma of calling it poverty. I mean, and so reduces the shame of acknowledging that we're fighting back against all of us together in our own individual ways, an economic system that is impoverishing us all to some degree. I mean, is that what wipes out the shame is calling it violence and then acknowledging the gravity of it?

702
00:54:41,514 --> 00:54:41,914
Yeah.

703
00:54:42,794 --> 00:54:45,034
I think that's what Mr. Fink is saying.

704
00:54:45,734 --> 00:54:47,294
And that's what Mr. Saylor is saying.

705
00:54:47,754 --> 00:54:47,934
Yeah.

706
00:54:49,094 --> 00:54:55,994
I think if we look at the nature of shame, shame is a learned behavior, right?

707
00:54:55,994 --> 00:55:00,014
You're not born understanding shame.

708
00:55:00,254 --> 00:55:10,494
You are taught shame by people around you who observe you do something and then give you feedback that makes you feel shame.

709
00:55:10,494 --> 00:55:15,534
where had you done that in a vacuum, you wouldn't feel shame.

710
00:55:16,114 --> 00:55:18,634
But knowledge changes that.

711
00:55:18,954 --> 00:55:20,574
You talk about winning.

712
00:55:21,574 --> 00:55:25,914
And I remember writing, you know, there's no such thing as a born winner.

713
00:55:26,074 --> 00:55:28,174
There's just losers that kept trying.

714
00:55:28,174 --> 00:55:32,234
And the better way to say it, Naval recently talked about this.

715
00:55:32,394 --> 00:55:34,394
It's not 10,000 hours.

716
00:55:34,394 --> 00:55:53,774
It's 10,000 iterations that get you from losing to winning, that get you from failure to success. And having shame as a blockade, having shame in the way of iterating is what keeps people stuck in that poverty cycle.

717
00:55:53,774 --> 00:56:09,534
To be able to approach your failure with humility means that you are putting aside the shame and you're open to the curiosity of accepting a new idea.

718
00:56:09,794 --> 00:56:18,694
You, in this working paper, you elucidate that these four pillars of transitional justice, truth-telling, accountability.

719
00:56:20,074 --> 00:56:22,334
Reparations and then institutional reform.

720
00:56:22,334 --> 00:56:40,574
Reparations and institutional reform, you spell out how this is the individual process going through and in this order of operations, but that these four pillars stand on a foundation of economic sovereignty.

721
00:56:41,574 --> 00:56:52,094
That none of these things can actually stand if you do not have the ability to create and store your wealth.

722
00:56:52,334 --> 00:56:54,374
And to carry that into the future.

723
00:56:55,714 --> 00:57:09,454
And, you know, Lucas, what do you think of, not only are you spot on, but early on a few seconds ago, you said it stands in economic sovereignty at the individual level.

724
00:57:11,234 --> 00:57:13,194
Let's dive deeper in economic sovereignty.

725
00:57:13,574 --> 00:57:15,754
Let's remove, let's call it what it is.

726
00:57:15,754 --> 00:57:19,574
So what is economic sovereignty if not owning your time?

727
00:57:19,574 --> 00:57:37,674
And what is owning your time if it's not, hey, you only have one life, you're going to die. So far, we all die. We can't live permanently. So if you, economic sovereignty is a derivative of time. Time is a derivative of, hey, you only have one life, you're going to die. What do you want to do with it?

728
00:57:37,674 --> 00:57:48,934
And I feel we kind of tiptoe around that in general, not just like in the political economy of Bitcoin, but in life, right?

729
00:57:48,954 --> 00:57:54,474
Because we have normalized, look at the tax rates in Europe.

730
00:57:56,054 --> 00:58:00,994
People work six, five, six, seven months of their year for someone else.

731
00:58:00,994 --> 00:58:08,054
I recently had a family member that did not make it to the year

732
00:58:08,054 --> 00:58:10,634
They're no longer here with us, they die

733
00:58:10,634 --> 00:58:14,754
That's just the reality

734
00:58:14,754 --> 00:58:16,774
Of life

735
00:58:16,774 --> 00:58:20,454
One of us could not be here tomorrow

736
00:58:20,454 --> 00:58:21,574
Could not be here in a few months

737
00:58:21,574 --> 00:58:22,674
That's just life

738
00:58:22,674 --> 00:58:24,494
So

739
00:58:24,494 --> 00:58:29,754
That's the part I want to start anchoring it

740
00:58:29,754 --> 00:58:34,054
I anchor into, there's nothing funny about this.

741
00:58:36,514 --> 00:58:38,614
There is a violence to this.

742
00:58:39,614 --> 00:58:47,134
And saying it allows a release of the shame,

743
00:58:47,454 --> 00:58:50,174
of the loneliness, of the otherness.

744
00:58:52,014 --> 00:58:54,194
Keeping up with the Jonas's or the Johnson's,

745
00:58:54,254 --> 00:58:55,394
whatever the saying is in English.

746
00:58:56,274 --> 00:58:57,994
What does that really mean?

747
00:58:57,994 --> 00:59:01,274
oh, I have shame that I don't keep up with them.

748
00:59:01,394 --> 00:59:03,554
Well, you don't know what the hell they're doing.

749
00:59:04,294 --> 00:59:05,994
You don't know what they're going through.

750
00:59:06,894 --> 00:59:10,014
So shame is imbued in all of this, right?

751
00:59:10,054 --> 00:59:11,534
In the current economic system that

752
00:59:11,534 --> 00:59:15,514
the benefits from this structure, right?

753
00:59:15,534 --> 00:59:17,254
There's a benefit for high taxation.

754
00:59:17,434 --> 00:59:18,714
There's a benefit for inflation.

755
00:59:20,514 --> 00:59:23,754
Bitcoin is a counter to that

756
00:59:23,754 --> 00:59:27,474
and a release, right?

757
00:59:27,474 --> 00:59:28,814
for those that want to,

758
00:59:29,074 --> 00:59:30,714
whether that's allocating 2%,

759
00:59:30,714 --> 00:59:32,434
that's not Sal's opinion or Lucas,

760
00:59:32,574 --> 00:59:33,514
that's Mr. Fink's opinion,

761
00:59:33,934 --> 00:59:36,794
or whether that's a lot more than 2%, right?

762
00:59:36,834 --> 00:59:38,094
Like Mr. Saylor suggests.

763
00:59:40,414 --> 00:59:42,934
And I think that by humanizing

764
00:59:42,934 --> 00:59:46,154
the dehumanization of economic violence,

765
00:59:49,094 --> 00:59:50,154
and I'm going to say that again,

766
00:59:50,274 --> 00:59:54,934
I think that by humanizing the dehumanizing process

767
00:59:54,934 --> 00:59:56,934
and impact of economic violence,

768
00:59:57,474 --> 01:00:04,194
we can then help the message of truth

769
01:00:04,194 --> 01:00:06,994
that Bitcoin allows for those that are curious.

770
01:00:07,174 --> 01:00:08,454
But you can't really be curious

771
01:00:08,454 --> 01:00:10,574
if you have two full-time jobs and a part-time

772
01:00:10,574 --> 01:00:12,314
because you're barely making it.

773
01:00:13,894 --> 01:00:17,494
So this is like humanity's journey through knowledge, right?

774
01:00:17,654 --> 01:00:19,534
It's not just unique to Bitcoin.

775
01:00:21,234 --> 01:00:22,694
And that's how early we are.

776
01:00:22,694 --> 01:00:25,714
You know, I think, you know, it's really early,

777
01:00:25,714 --> 01:00:28,634
like hundreds of years, not really where I'm going to be in the next six months.

778
01:00:30,014 --> 01:00:36,494
But I think we're well ahead of where we were back in 2000, you know, 2010, 2011.

779
01:00:36,754 --> 01:00:38,694
So does that make sense?

780
01:00:38,714 --> 01:00:43,454
Because you say economic sovereignty and that can get lost very easily on people that might

781
01:00:43,454 --> 01:00:46,974
not even have enough financial literacy to understand what that means.

782
01:00:47,134 --> 01:00:49,454
And by the way, most people don't have that.

783
01:00:49,454 --> 01:01:18,894
Yeah, I think it's the question. It answers the question of morality, which you you take us through morality as as one of the tenants here, which Grant and I discussed last night, is that there is somewhat, at least to me, there's somewhat of a relief in going down the rabbit hole of Bitcoin and understanding the nature of the current system versus Bitcoin.

784
01:01:18,894 --> 01:01:28,674
and being able to characterize the inherent morality of the fairness and justice and openness of Bitcoin as compared to the other system.

785
01:01:28,674 --> 01:01:37,474
Because we grew up in the world of the thing to do was to sell out.

786
01:01:37,594 --> 01:01:42,994
The thing to do was to take today and sacrifice tomorrow.

787
01:01:42,994 --> 01:01:51,954
Well, the thing to do was to take on all this debt to get the giant house, to get the boat, to get the second house, to get the fancy car.

788
01:01:51,954 --> 01:02:02,334
and while that by the rules of the game that we were inserted into that was the correct way to

789
01:02:02,334 --> 01:02:13,914
play it there has always been this undercurrent this feeling that was ineffable that could not

790
01:02:13,914 --> 01:02:20,514
be described but that we knew that there was something inherently wrong about that we knew

791
01:02:20,514 --> 01:02:28,234
that there was something inherently immoral about that. And that to me, it was like a vindication

792
01:02:28,234 --> 01:02:38,374
to understand Bitcoin and then to rationalize that with my own natural behavior. Like my own

793
01:02:38,374 --> 01:02:49,314
natural behavior is to be a saver. My own natural behavior is to be risk averse with my money and

794
01:02:49,314 --> 01:02:50,634
with my wealth.

795
01:02:52,454 --> 01:02:55,954
Yet, like in my previous career as a banker,

796
01:02:56,354 --> 01:03:10,588
one time I was educated on the system by a 22 23 24 kid who had million worth of debt And I was telling him you way too overextended way too overextended

797
01:03:10,648 --> 01:03:12,968
And he goes, no, I want debt.

798
01:03:13,528 --> 01:03:15,468
The more debt that I have, the better.

799
01:03:16,068 --> 01:03:18,548
I would prefer to have only debt.

800
01:03:18,548 --> 01:03:20,688
I don't want to own anything.

801
01:03:20,688 --> 01:03:25,988
If you would allow me simply to have all debt, that would be fantastic

802
01:03:25,988 --> 01:03:28,568
because that's how I win at this game.

803
01:03:29,268 --> 01:03:43,928
And he had advanced past or put to the side the morality of that question of whether or not, you know, and that that takes that's all the way back to the Bible and, you know, the immorality of money lending and usury.

804
01:03:43,928 --> 01:03:55,428
but you you do you know if I the monumental study if I tell you that the chores that you do around

805
01:03:55,428 --> 01:04:00,148
the house are equivalent to a full body workout you lose weight your blood pressure goes down

806
01:04:00,148 --> 01:04:06,348
your heart rate decreases if I tell you that the chronic pain that you suffer from is because of

807
01:04:06,348 --> 01:04:12,448
repressed rage that you are not dealing with then just by knowing that your chronic pain decreases

808
01:04:12,448 --> 01:04:27,848
And this knowledge where if I tell you that this is violence, that this is a structural attack on the poor, just by knowing that, then your life can change because you can take action.

809
01:04:27,848 --> 01:04:38,988
And just because now you can put aside the shame of that and you can come to it with the first approach, which is to I need to look at this from a truth telling perspective.

810
01:04:39,188 --> 01:04:42,188
What am I doing that is killing me?

811
01:04:42,288 --> 01:04:48,988
What am I doing that's making me fat, that's making me poor, that's making my life messy, that's making my relationships bad?

812
01:04:48,988 --> 01:05:01,888
And now that I can approach that without shame, then I can move to the next pillar of accountability where I can identify what is in that system that is causing that.

813
01:05:02,168 --> 01:05:05,108
And then I can make those reparations.

814
01:05:05,308 --> 01:05:07,108
I can move out of that system.

815
01:05:07,348 --> 01:05:08,928
I can take the action.

816
01:05:10,728 --> 01:05:14,028
Justice is truth in action, I read the other day.

817
01:05:14,028 --> 01:05:42,808
And that to me is like this is the silent justice that is occurring with people onboarding themselves into Bitcoin, no matter what avenue they're taking to do it, is that they are inflicting justice upon this system that has been inflicting injustices upon them simply by the knowledge that they've gained where they know that this is the more moral approach.

818
01:05:42,808 --> 01:06:03,348
And there was a line that you had in what you wrote, which I wanted to I wanted to ask you about. Morality cannot be cannot be rationalized. Conscience cannot be owned by the state. Morality cannot be rationalized. Conscience cannot be owned by the state. What do you mean by that?

819
01:06:04,268 --> 01:06:10,508
And I think I think the word I used was nationalized. Morality cannot be nationalized.

820
01:06:10,508 --> 01:06:40,488
Oh, yeah. Sorry. You're right. Yeah. Thank you. I have bad handwriting. Morality cannot be nationalized. Yes. Yes. Oh, well. All right. So we can use a specific example. First of all, thank you. That's a beautiful framing of it. And yeah, I completely, not only does that make sense, there's a particular BitCoiner. She has like 20 some thousand followers. Her name's Lindsay Stamp, I believe. And she makes it to my paper where she pretty much just films her story.

821
01:06:40,508 --> 01:06:45,048
You know, she has a job, a regular job, nine to five.

822
01:06:45,648 --> 01:06:48,268
But in the afternoons, at nights and weekends, she drives Uber.

823
01:06:48,948 --> 01:06:55,728
She films herself at the end of sort of her Uber entrepreneurship journey every day.

824
01:06:55,828 --> 01:06:59,608
And then she's just like, okay, well, guys, I, you know, it's like three little minute videos.

825
01:06:59,948 --> 01:07:03,388
All right, today I made five Uber drives.

826
01:07:03,608 --> 01:07:06,528
I earned, you know, 20 bucks a piece.

827
01:07:07,168 --> 01:07:09,508
And this is going to go, this is a hundred and whatever.

828
01:07:09,508 --> 01:07:12,708
and after gas and mileage and whatnot,

829
01:07:13,048 --> 01:07:14,268
this is the net profit

830
01:07:14,268 --> 01:07:16,188
and all of it is going to go straight to Bitcoin.

831
01:07:16,348 --> 01:07:17,488
And then she ends up the video

832
01:07:17,488 --> 01:07:20,948
posting that her Bitcoin purchase transaction,

833
01:07:22,068 --> 01:07:24,368
which is incredible.

834
01:07:24,628 --> 01:07:26,508
You know, I had the opportunity

835
01:07:26,508 --> 01:07:28,248
to interact with her

836
01:07:28,248 --> 01:07:31,248
and the reason why I chose her

837
01:07:31,248 --> 01:07:33,048
and I analyzed her as well in the paper

838
01:07:33,048 --> 01:07:38,788
is because without saying it, right?

839
01:07:39,508 --> 01:07:44,668
Each video she does

840
01:07:44,668 --> 01:07:46,848
Is a

841
01:07:46,848 --> 01:07:48,788
Compilation of her actions

842
01:07:48,788 --> 01:07:50,888
That whether consciously

843
01:07:50,888 --> 01:07:51,848
Or not for her

844
01:07:51,848 --> 01:07:54,608
And I'm very big

845
01:07:54,608 --> 01:07:56,648
I admire her work a lot

846
01:07:56,648 --> 01:07:58,108
And I mean I love it

847
01:07:58,108 --> 01:08:00,868
She has engaged in one truth tell

848
01:08:00,868 --> 01:08:02,948
Said okay I have this

849
01:08:02,948 --> 01:08:04,928
Notified but that's not enough

850
01:08:04,928 --> 01:08:06,808
And you know what I'm not

851
01:08:06,808 --> 01:08:07,928
Just going to sit here and go

852
01:08:07,928 --> 01:08:13,748
not do anything. I'm going to go work for more fiat because I know that that can be taxed away.

853
01:08:13,928 --> 01:08:20,328
2% inflation out of 35, what, the half-life of 2% is like 35 years. So like literally your

854
01:08:20,328 --> 01:08:25,588
wealth, if you don't do anything, a 2% inflation rate gets decreased by 50% in 35 years.

855
01:08:27,348 --> 01:08:34,808
That's pretty horrific, just what it means, right? So she says in the videos, what she's not saying

856
01:08:34,808 --> 01:08:38,068
And it's like, hey, y'all, I went through a process of truth telling years ago.

857
01:08:38,168 --> 01:08:39,268
You know, she's been doing this for a few years.

858
01:08:39,588 --> 01:08:40,388
And you know what?

859
01:08:40,448 --> 01:08:53,848
I keep on landing on this truth that I need to stack my fiat into Bitcoin, a percentage of it, because, and that's pillar number two, criminal prosecutions, just in general.

860
01:08:54,068 --> 01:08:59,288
Because through no fault of my own, and really there's nothing I can do by myself to change it.

861
01:08:59,288 --> 01:09:04,868
But the system in which I live in within the U.S., it's really not helping.

862
01:09:05,268 --> 01:09:09,548
And with this 2% inflation, it's really going to base the value of my life's work.

863
01:09:09,628 --> 01:09:10,428
And I have family.

864
01:09:10,528 --> 01:09:11,988
I have those I want to achieve, whatever.

865
01:09:13,008 --> 01:09:16,008
So, guys, again, this is all unsaid, right?

866
01:09:16,308 --> 01:09:27,308
So, guys, the third pillar, she's like, guys, my act of reparation, my act of trying to repair this is, hey, putting in the work.

867
01:09:27,708 --> 01:09:28,928
Nobody's giving her anything.

868
01:09:29,288 --> 01:09:36,188
She's risking her life going out at night during the afternoon, risking her extra work.

869
01:09:36,788 --> 01:09:42,908
So think about the framework that Bitcoin transforms once you see the truth.

870
01:09:43,468 --> 01:09:45,448
That nobody's going to come to save you.

871
01:09:46,428 --> 01:09:47,068
That's just life.

872
01:09:49,288 --> 01:09:54,228
So she said, I'm going to put in more work away from my family, away from doing things I love,

873
01:09:54,228 --> 01:09:57,188
to earn this fiat, pillar number three,

874
01:09:57,548 --> 01:10:00,188
to repair what's being done to me.

875
01:10:00,708 --> 01:10:01,888
Of course, she will never say this, right?

876
01:10:01,988 --> 01:10:03,348
That's just not saying it.

877
01:10:04,348 --> 01:10:06,928
And then step number four, pillar number four,

878
01:10:07,528 --> 01:10:10,388
I buy it and here's a screenshot at the end

879
01:10:10,388 --> 01:10:11,608
and she finishes the video.

880
01:10:12,068 --> 01:10:15,368
I buy it to show pillar number four,

881
01:10:15,428 --> 01:10:17,208
my action of institutional reform

882
01:10:17,208 --> 01:10:20,588
and reforming what I can control,

883
01:10:20,588 --> 01:10:23,268
which is Lindsay's personal strategy

884
01:10:23,268 --> 01:10:24,828
for protecting her wealth.

885
01:10:29,168 --> 01:10:30,868
When you see that,

886
01:10:32,068 --> 01:10:34,828
when I saw that years ago,

887
01:10:34,928 --> 01:10:36,188
I couldn't unsee it.

888
01:10:37,588 --> 01:10:40,308
And she does it in such an incredibly poised,

889
01:10:41,508 --> 01:10:42,228
empathetic,

890
01:10:44,168 --> 01:10:45,348
when the free market speaks,

891
01:10:45,448 --> 01:10:47,048
she has tens of thousands of followers.

892
01:10:47,048 --> 01:10:49,288
So clearly the message connects.

893
01:10:49,288 --> 01:10:54,428
But the truth is there

894
01:10:54,428 --> 01:10:55,208
It's underlay

895
01:10:55,208 --> 01:10:57,868
What I want to say

896
01:10:57,868 --> 01:10:58,948
In this paper

897
01:10:58,948 --> 01:10:59,628
Is saying hey

898
01:10:59,628 --> 01:11:00,668
For those that

899
01:11:00,668 --> 01:11:03,748
That might not even take the time

900
01:11:03,748 --> 01:11:04,848
To go down the rabbit hole

901
01:11:04,848 --> 01:11:08,528
You are actually going through

902
01:11:08,528 --> 01:11:10,068
A lot of economic violence

903
01:11:10,068 --> 01:11:13,188
You might want to give it a shot

904
01:11:13,188 --> 01:11:14,688
Because of X, Y, Z

905
01:11:14,688 --> 01:11:16,648
And calling it

906
01:11:16,648 --> 01:11:17,848
Shitting a light on it

907
01:11:19,288 --> 01:11:25,268
Typically, it's the first, it's the very, I mean, entire psychology and therapy is based on that, right?

908
01:11:25,348 --> 01:11:27,768
You examine the past by understanding what happened.

909
01:11:29,688 --> 01:11:29,848
Right?

910
01:11:29,848 --> 01:11:34,068
So I'm hoping that by saying, hey, there is violence.

911
01:11:35,508 --> 01:11:42,688
Nobody really, I think, willingly and happily says, hey, fam, I already worked full time, but I'm going to go work some more to buy some Bitcoin.

912
01:11:43,227 --> 01:11:44,628
You don't really do that happily.

913
01:11:44,788 --> 01:11:48,468
I mean, you do it because you believe in it and you want to protect it, right?

914
01:11:48,468 --> 01:12:00,028
You want to protect this network. But there's an element of she's doing this as a recourse to the violence that's been inflicted by a system through no fault of her own.

915
01:12:00,128 --> 01:12:01,788
But we all live in it.

916
01:12:02,148 --> 01:12:17,328
Yeah. And you do a great job. That was such a beautiful application of the transitional justice framework to an individual Bitcoiners personal redemption arc in relation to the violence they've experienced as a result of the economic system.

917
01:12:17,328 --> 01:12:36,768
And by calling it violence, you know, that does allow you to do an excellent and beautiful thing in this paper of taking that transitional justice framework, usually on the national level, and then applying it to the individual's journey and reconciliation with the violence that they experienced.

918
01:12:36,768 --> 01:13:03,508
And your description of what this person is doing on Twitter and the value it's adding is another really just deep and profound part of this paper, the knowledge network, that there is this idea that you have, which is excellent, that out of each individual's private reckoning with their own experiences emerges this network of people adding something to Bitcoin who are not coders.

919
01:13:03,508 --> 01:13:08,908
who people who, you know, they don't maybe even fully comprehend the opportune debate or something like that,

920
01:13:08,988 --> 01:13:14,868
but they feel on a deep visceral level emanating from their own experience that they need to talk about this,

921
01:13:15,148 --> 01:13:19,588
their own journey, and that this produces a political economy of Bitcoin,

922
01:13:20,028 --> 01:13:23,188
an additional layer to Bitcoin that is energy and not rhetoric.

923
01:13:23,368 --> 01:13:27,328
So could you expand on that, your idea here of what the knowledge network is?

924
01:13:28,328 --> 01:13:28,768
Absolutely.

925
01:13:29,088 --> 01:13:31,808
And I'll definitely share with you the final draft

926
01:13:31,808 --> 01:13:34,708
because what I shared with you was sort of the first half

927
01:13:34,708 --> 01:13:36,868
and the other half, like getting the details of it.

928
01:13:36,868 --> 01:13:44,668
But at its core, what I argue is,

929
01:13:44,848 --> 01:13:49,168
all right, so Bitcoin doesn't care, coma, but people do.

930
01:13:49,528 --> 01:13:49,648
Okay.

931
01:13:50,588 --> 01:13:51,068
Sure.

932
01:13:51,568 --> 01:13:52,808
I think we can all agree with that.

933
01:13:54,908 --> 01:13:56,428
Mr. Fink and Mr. Saylor care.

934
01:13:57,308 --> 01:13:57,568
Okay.

935
01:13:58,708 --> 01:14:01,508
Lucas, Grant, and Sal and Lindsay care.

936
01:14:01,808 --> 01:14:02,168
Okay.

937
01:14:03,068 --> 01:14:04,528
Well, what the hell do we care about?

938
01:14:05,148 --> 01:14:06,828
Why are we all converting on one thing?

939
01:14:07,128 --> 01:14:08,588
What is this thing?

940
01:14:10,988 --> 01:14:15,028
Obviously, we all have different access to different levels of resources.

941
01:14:15,968 --> 01:14:17,828
Mr. Fink, Mr. Saylor, all of us.

942
01:14:19,588 --> 01:14:23,727
But I think we care and we converge on this knowledge network

943
01:14:23,727 --> 01:14:26,708
that Mr. Saylor and Mr. Fink went in the record

944
01:14:26,708 --> 01:14:28,848
and said, hey, I've changed my opinion about BACOM.

945
01:14:29,628 --> 01:14:32,108
That's how powerful this is, right?

946
01:14:32,988 --> 01:14:34,288
They didn't say I changed my opinion

947
01:14:34,288 --> 01:14:36,408
because of Lucas and Grant's study sessions

948
01:14:36,408 --> 01:14:37,188
or South's paper.

949
01:14:37,468 --> 01:14:40,308
No, they said, I went through my own process,

950
01:14:40,528 --> 01:14:41,948
Mr. Fink and Mr. Saylor,

951
01:14:42,388 --> 01:14:45,008
people with incredible amount of access to resources.

952
01:14:45,888 --> 01:14:47,128
They said, yeah, you know what?

953
01:14:48,328 --> 01:14:49,288
I was wrong.

954
01:14:51,208 --> 01:14:52,928
I was like, okay, so what did they go through?

955
01:14:53,548 --> 01:14:55,468
Well, it went through three things, right?

956
01:14:55,568 --> 01:15:00,268
And the knowledge network tends to converge around these three elements, right?

957
01:15:00,308 --> 01:15:01,848
And we have individuals that do this.

958
01:15:02,388 --> 01:15:02,988
And I'll read them.

959
01:15:03,108 --> 01:15:04,948
I'll have a screen here to my right, so I'll read them.

960
01:15:07,068 --> 01:15:12,227
At its core, this knowledge network performs three interlocking functions.

961
01:15:13,268 --> 01:15:15,348
Number one, translation.

962
01:15:17,028 --> 01:15:18,968
This means education and explanation.

963
01:15:19,568 --> 01:15:24,048
There's teachers, writers, podcasters, and open source contributors that translate the

964
01:15:24,048 --> 01:15:26,368
complexity of Bitcoin into civic literacy.

965
01:15:27,928 --> 01:15:33,888
They demystify energy, scarcity, and sovereignty, turning code into culture.

966
01:15:37,108 --> 01:15:41,928
Clearly, Mr. Fink and Mr. Saylor, who have, again, and I only say this as far as, this

967
01:15:41,928 --> 01:15:45,828
is folks that have incredible access to resources and could learn anything overnight and could

968
01:15:45,828 --> 01:15:48,248
hire the world's best experts to learn it.

969
01:15:48,248 --> 01:15:49,748
It took them years.

970
01:15:50,268 --> 01:15:52,008
They actually initially dismissed Bitcoin.

971
01:15:53,148 --> 01:15:56,428
But somehow, and they share a little bit of their own journey, right?

972
01:15:56,548 --> 01:15:57,548
This is so public records.

973
01:15:58,288 --> 01:16:03,668
Things were translated for them and they translating things that said, hmm, okay, you know what?

974
01:16:03,928 --> 01:16:05,168
I am actually a Bitcoiner.

975
01:16:05,248 --> 01:16:05,908
I believe in it.

976
01:16:06,908 --> 01:16:07,988
So, element number one.

977
01:16:08,768 --> 01:16:10,227
The network performs another one.

978
01:16:10,648 --> 01:16:11,088
Verification.

979
01:16:12,348 --> 01:16:13,208
Bitcoin doesn't care.

980
01:16:13,288 --> 01:16:13,768
It's transparent.

981
01:16:13,888 --> 01:16:14,588
Everybody can verify.

982
01:16:14,708 --> 01:16:15,568
Yeah, no, but humans do.

983
01:16:15,568 --> 01:16:21,428
as the folks that decided to support Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Satoshi Vision.

984
01:16:23,488 --> 01:16:26,727
The network provides research and accountability,

985
01:16:27,988 --> 01:16:29,568
what we are doing right now.

986
01:16:31,008 --> 01:16:35,068
Academics, journalists, and analysts test claims, audit institutions,

987
01:16:35,308 --> 01:16:36,828
and expose misinformation.

988
01:16:37,828 --> 01:16:41,328
They ensure that truth remains measurable

989
01:16:41,328 --> 01:16:45,608
and that no authority monopolizes understanding.

990
01:16:47,368 --> 01:16:52,268
It is in that monopoly, right, that obfuscation happens.

991
01:16:52,708 --> 01:16:55,828
And typically monopolies are allowed by people that have access

992
01:16:55,828 --> 01:16:58,468
to huge amounts of independent means, right?

993
01:16:59,568 --> 01:17:02,148
And the third element is creation.

994
01:17:03,048 --> 01:17:06,068
So translation, verification, and creation.

995
01:17:06,228 --> 01:17:07,948
The network, the Bitcoin Knowledge Network,

996
01:17:08,788 --> 01:17:10,468
allows for innovation and application.

997
01:17:11,328 --> 01:17:21,328
There's builders, there's miners, investors that are focusing on protecting and extending Bitcoin's utility through new tools, like more efficient miners.

998
01:17:22,528 --> 01:17:23,128
Right?

999
01:17:23,548 --> 01:17:24,948
Like that's super important.

1000
01:17:24,948 --> 01:17:28,288
And you need to get even more efficient every single while.

1001
01:17:28,288 --> 01:17:40,908
how it. They focus on infrastructure, on energy projects. The creation component of the network

1002
01:17:40,908 --> 01:17:47,368
embody its ethos, the ethos of Bitcoin by transforming knowledge into tangible progress.

1003
01:17:48,028 --> 01:17:53,928
So that's all fancy three elements to say one. So the knowledge network is made up of three things,

1004
01:17:54,088 --> 01:17:58,088
translation, verification, and creation. And I was able to, out of all of those three things,

1005
01:17:58,088 --> 01:18:05,648
I was able to create derivatives of everything, including the study sessions, Lindsay, Mr. Fink, Mr. Saylor, everyone.

1006
01:18:06,968 --> 01:18:12,628
Well, these three functions form what I call the thermodynamic metabolism of truth.

1007
01:18:14,028 --> 01:18:15,028
There's a metabolism.

1008
01:18:16,448 --> 01:18:17,968
And it's thermodynamic.

1009
01:18:18,568 --> 01:18:20,268
So it's anchored by physics.

1010
01:18:22,648 --> 01:18:24,748
Gravity is incredible and is amazing.

1011
01:18:24,748 --> 01:18:27,268
yeah but if you jump off a building

1012
01:18:27,268 --> 01:18:29,628
you might not make it because of gravity

1013
01:18:29,628 --> 01:18:33,468
but you can use gravity for

1014
01:18:33,468 --> 01:18:35,688
incredible things to do create peace

1015
01:18:35,688 --> 01:18:36,288
and abundance

1016
01:18:36,288 --> 01:18:39,468
fire is empowering yeah but you can burn

1017
01:18:39,468 --> 01:18:39,828
alive

1018
01:18:39,828 --> 01:18:42,868
and it's used as a torture by many

1019
01:18:42,868 --> 01:18:44,968
through history for humans right

1020
01:18:44,968 --> 01:18:45,748
so

1021
01:18:45,748 --> 01:18:48,648
these three functions form the

1022
01:18:48,648 --> 01:18:50,988
thermodynamic metabolism of truth

1023
01:18:50,988 --> 01:18:52,227
energy

1024
01:18:52,227 --> 01:18:54,368
is the input. It enters

1025
01:18:54,368 --> 01:18:54,948
us work.

1026
01:18:56,468 --> 01:18:58,248
Intellectual energy, what we're doing here,

1027
01:18:58,888 --> 01:18:59,628
moral energy.

1028
01:19:00,928 --> 01:19:02,428
People think of morality

1029
01:19:02,428 --> 01:19:04,368
different, and that's okay. There's a place for

1030
01:19:04,368 --> 01:19:06,348
everything. I'm getting ready

1031
01:19:06,348 --> 01:19:08,328
to do a post. I have a list of books

1032
01:19:08,328 --> 01:19:10,088
that I've accumulated over the years that I used to

1033
01:19:10,088 --> 01:19:12,328
help allocate at the Cornell Bitcoin Club, and I

1034
01:19:12,328 --> 01:19:14,348
have every type of book. There's a book

1035
01:19:14,348 --> 01:19:16,308
that's called Bitcoin is, thank God

1036
01:19:16,308 --> 01:19:17,868
for Bitcoin. Bitcoin is for

1037
01:19:17,868 --> 01:19:20,308
blue-collar workers. Bitcoin is

1038
01:19:20,308 --> 01:19:21,668
for Muslims. Bitcoin is for me.

1039
01:19:21,668 --> 01:19:26,908
All levels of morality have books about why Bitcoin is for them.

1040
01:19:28,848 --> 01:19:29,848
That's beautiful.

1041
01:19:30,008 --> 01:19:30,968
That's incredible, right?

1042
01:19:31,068 --> 01:19:39,808
And as an educator, my responsibility was to read all of it, to understand, not to judge, but to understand and be able to connect.

1043
01:19:40,528 --> 01:19:51,048
So if this three functions from the thermodynamic metabolism of truth, energy enters us work, intellectual, moral, or electrical, and leaves the output as understanding.

1044
01:19:51,668 --> 01:20:02,108
Over time, this feedback loop self-organizes into something resembling a living organism, and there's been work done on that before.

1045
01:20:03,048 --> 01:20:05,888
Ideas compete, adapt, and evolve.

1046
01:20:07,308 --> 01:20:11,768
But weak narratives in a free market tend to die, and strong ones persist.

1047
01:20:12,688 --> 01:20:19,548
So out of this process emerges what we call signal, verified truth that survives entropy.

1048
01:20:19,548 --> 01:20:34,988
And I think these two particular paragraphs are the essence of the other half that I'll send your way, where I say, okay, how do we connect Lindsay's incredible Uber videos, Branson Luca's incredible intellectual analysis?

1049
01:20:35,988 --> 01:20:42,628
Shout out to Natalie. Her work has been fundamental, absolutely fundamental. Jason, absolutely fundamental.

1050
01:20:42,628 --> 01:20:50,028
I mean, just folks that are, you know, if we're analyzing the now, they're thinking decades, centuries in advance, right?

1051
01:20:50,068 --> 01:20:53,448
And it's beautiful because we all make this knowledge work.

1052
01:20:56,328 --> 01:20:58,608
But we're looking for the signal.

1053
01:21:00,748 --> 01:21:09,648
And that's where many folks, depending on their frameworks, their emotional backgrounds, their perspective, the levels of shame,

1054
01:21:09,648 --> 01:21:12,928
And that's for many folks to revive, but many, many more do not.

1055
01:21:13,208 --> 01:21:14,608
And they lose their wealth.

1056
01:21:14,748 --> 01:21:16,648
They lose their life's work.

1057
01:21:17,048 --> 01:21:18,068
And we've seen it.

1058
01:21:18,108 --> 01:21:21,708
And it's not just particular to the market within Bitcoin.

1059
01:21:21,888 --> 01:21:22,888
It's the markets in general.

1060
01:21:22,888 --> 01:21:27,108
I remember all the suicides that happened in the great financial crisis of 2008.

1061
01:21:27,868 --> 01:21:29,748
I'm old enough to remember that suicides.

1062
01:21:29,908 --> 01:21:30,548
I mean, it was horrible.

1063
01:21:30,768 --> 01:21:34,008
So, you know, this is serious topics.

1064
01:21:34,088 --> 01:21:35,068
We're talking about people's lives.

1065
01:21:35,068 --> 01:21:39,308
and the knowledge network aims to provide an aim

1066
01:21:39,308 --> 01:21:41,708
that I think can empower Bitcoiners

1067
01:21:41,708 --> 01:21:48,288
to support the curve that's happening,

1068
01:21:48,388 --> 01:21:49,548
the adoption curve that's happening,

1069
01:21:50,188 --> 01:21:55,908
aligned with the truth-telling and truth-seeking process

1070
01:21:55,908 --> 01:21:59,148
that Bitcoin, and really only Bitcoin, enables.

1071
01:21:59,668 --> 01:22:00,608
Does that make sense?

1072
01:22:00,727 --> 01:22:02,128
Does that answer the question?

1073
01:22:02,308 --> 01:22:03,148
It makes perfect sense.

1074
01:22:03,148 --> 01:22:18,468
And the part that I find, one of the parts that I find very beautiful about the Knowledge Network is acknowledging contribution from members outside of specific kind of technical aspects of the operation of Bitcoin.

1075
01:22:19,008 --> 01:22:21,748
I mean, you know that miners are part of the Knowledge Network.

1076
01:22:22,188 --> 01:22:27,048
You know, better technologies do emanate from the Knowledge Network as part of the production of truth.

1077
01:22:27,248 --> 01:22:30,388
But also part of that Knowledge Network is, you mentioned artists.

1078
01:22:30,388 --> 01:22:41,588
That is, I think, one of the kind of parts of Bitcoin that we're really going to see flower in the next kind of stage of adoption is the production of Bitcoin culture.

1079
01:22:41,588 --> 01:22:46,588
that is in the vein of all true art.

1080
01:22:46,968 --> 01:22:53,628
It's not nail on the head specifically about Bitcoin saying Bitcoin is beautiful.

1081
01:22:53,748 --> 01:22:57,628
Bitcoin, it's people who are Bitcoiners creating art from the premises

1082
01:22:57,628 --> 01:23:00,868
that are deep in their bones because they are Bitcoiners.

1083
01:23:00,868 --> 01:23:03,727
They have experienced like the revelation of Bitcoin,

1084
01:23:03,848 --> 01:23:06,028
part of what you call the distributed civic awakening.

1085
01:23:06,628 --> 01:23:10,588
And they have this fire in them and they're going to translate that into culture.

1086
01:23:11,227 --> 01:23:14,708
Just to bootstrap off that, we have an artist here in the room, Lucas.

1087
01:23:14,968 --> 01:23:15,688
He is a musician.

1088
01:23:16,128 --> 01:23:23,788
And as part of one of the things that we're going to see is music as kind of the flowering of the knowledge network, this art aspect.

1089
01:23:23,788 --> 01:23:32,968
And you've been working on some music that is in this vein, that is a person who is a Bitcoiner making music that's not, quote unquote, about Bitcoin,

1090
01:23:32,968 --> 01:23:41,428
But that is deeply informed by like the energy that's stored from having explored Bitcoin and having come to the realizations about Bitcoin.

1091
01:23:41,428 --> 01:24:05,548
Yeah, I think art is fundamentally about expressing truth. And the greatest truths are those from which other truths arise. So I think it's the foundational truth from the other things, like the laws of physics are the greatest truths and from them, these other things arise.

1092
01:24:05,548 --> 01:24:18,428
And like the fiat, you know, the difference is that like the fiat system is a truth that only goes up to here because it's only true for a certain number of people.

1093
01:24:18,588 --> 01:24:23,608
It's only true for the people who can take advantage of it, which is a very small amount of people.

1094
01:24:23,788 --> 01:24:26,828
But Bitcoin is true for everyone, as you know.

1095
01:24:27,108 --> 01:24:28,068
It's for Muslims.

1096
01:24:28,268 --> 01:24:29,408
It's for taxi drivers.

1097
01:24:29,548 --> 01:24:31,608
It's for dog walkers.

1098
01:24:31,668 --> 01:24:32,968
It's for everybody.

1099
01:24:32,968 --> 01:24:37,748
but underlying that is the morality

1100
01:24:37,748 --> 01:24:42,208
and art, you know, the beauty of art

1101
01:24:42,208 --> 01:24:44,588
I think comes from the morality of it

1102
01:24:44,588 --> 01:24:46,368
and that's what I've found is that

1103
01:24:46,368 --> 01:24:52,348
trying to write songs and create music

1104
01:24:52,348 --> 01:24:56,128
post-Bitcoin understanding

1105
01:24:56,128 --> 01:25:02,388
is to draw on this

1106
01:25:02,388 --> 01:25:10,588
wellspring of morality which underpins Bitcoin that is the source of truth that makes it true

1107
01:25:10,588 --> 01:25:17,928
for all the other people who engage with it. And I do think that the Bitcoin culture and the

1108
01:25:17,928 --> 01:25:27,248
Bitcoin art is going to be appealing to everyone because it is true for everyone. Because this

1109
01:25:27,248 --> 01:25:37,268
morality of openness and fairness and equality and justice that is embedded into Bitcoin through

1110
01:25:37,268 --> 01:25:43,748
the physics and through the code. It does apply to everyone as opposed to the system that we've

1111
01:25:43,748 --> 01:25:51,788
come out of, which is only applicable to a certain subset of people. And you think about the

1112
01:25:51,788 --> 01:26:00,868
degradation of modern art, you know, the banana duct taped to the wall, you know, the pop art

1113
01:26:00,868 --> 01:26:09,348
of the Campbell's soup can that it's appealing to a certain subsect of people. But when we go back

1114
01:26:09,348 --> 01:26:17,108
and we look at like Renaissance art and we go back and we listen to Renaissance music, it is

1115
01:26:17,108 --> 01:26:26,548
seemingly undeniable that there is beauty in that that appeals to all people. It's very difficult

1116
01:26:26,548 --> 01:26:34,908
to look at a gothic structure, to look at a Michelangelo painting, to listen to Beethoven

1117
01:26:34,908 --> 01:26:42,468
or Mozart. It takes a very unique person to observe that and not find the beauty in it. But it is

1118
01:26:42,468 --> 01:26:49,668
very easy for a large subset of people to look at the fiat economy and not see the beauty in that

1119
01:26:49,668 --> 01:26:58,368
it's very easy for people to look at to listen to the music of bad bunny or ariana grante or

1120
01:26:58,368 --> 01:27:05,248
modern art it's very easy for people to listen to that and not find the beauty in that um because it

1121
01:27:05,248 --> 01:27:10,868
it has become very polarizing because it is only meant for a small,

1122
01:27:11,088 --> 01:27:16,248
a small portion of the people for whom that truth speaks.

1123
01:27:16,668 --> 01:27:21,188
But yeah, the morality that underpins Bitcoin speaks to everyone.

1124
01:27:21,468 --> 01:27:23,227
And so I think that it will be,

1125
01:27:23,608 --> 01:27:27,688
I think that it will be largely appealing to nearly everyone.

1126
01:27:28,328 --> 01:27:29,348
What do you think of this, Lucas?

1127
01:27:29,428 --> 01:27:31,368
And I played the violin for many years.

1128
01:27:31,528 --> 01:27:34,288
So I, you know, I love musical.

1129
01:27:34,288 --> 01:27:40,648
I think artists, there's no freedom with no art.

1130
01:27:41,448 --> 01:27:44,208
Where art is prohibited and banned, there is no freedom.

1131
01:27:44,368 --> 01:27:45,727
Freedom is also prohibited and banned.

1132
01:27:46,788 --> 01:27:49,508
But I would love to see, because I get into this paper.

1133
01:27:49,628 --> 01:27:55,528
In the paper, I actually choose a few artists and just kind of within Bitcoin and examine, right?

1134
01:27:55,648 --> 01:28:02,488
Authors, people that do sculptors, the Lugano art about Satoshi that was vandalized,

1135
01:28:02,488 --> 01:28:04,528
thrown into the water about two months ago.

1136
01:28:04,828 --> 01:28:05,948
That's the beginning of it.

1137
01:28:06,188 --> 01:28:06,988
That's what's coming.

1138
01:28:09,748 --> 01:28:11,368
That's how it started against Victor Hata.

1139
01:28:12,068 --> 01:28:13,628
And he was riddled with 40 bullets

1140
01:28:13,628 --> 01:28:14,408
and he broke his fingers.

1141
01:28:15,408 --> 01:28:16,488
But that's what's coming.

1142
01:28:16,648 --> 01:28:17,848
That's a sign right here.

1143
01:28:18,148 --> 01:28:19,727
People don't, again, my paper does go,

1144
01:28:20,428 --> 01:28:21,548
I shed light into it.

1145
01:28:21,588 --> 01:28:22,748
I'm like, no, no, no, that's coming.

1146
01:28:24,368 --> 01:28:26,028
And there's a famous,

1147
01:28:26,488 --> 01:28:28,308
eventually it's going to come against people.

1148
01:28:29,488 --> 01:28:29,928
Right.

1149
01:28:30,368 --> 01:28:32,308
So I would love to get your perspective

1150
01:28:32,308 --> 01:28:34,408
because this is sort of what I argue in the paper as well

1151
01:28:34,408 --> 01:28:35,808
when it comes to art specifically.

1152
01:28:38,548 --> 01:28:41,727
There's no freedom for artists, right?

1153
01:28:43,888 --> 01:28:45,648
There's an element of sharing it.

1154
01:28:46,748 --> 01:28:47,748
There's an element of sharing,

1155
01:28:47,868 --> 01:28:48,788
whether there's a sculptor,

1156
01:28:48,908 --> 01:28:50,568
the Lugano sculptor that was vandalized,

1157
01:28:50,808 --> 01:28:53,488
letting people assemble, right?

1158
01:28:53,928 --> 01:28:55,548
Whether that's playing the guitar, the violin,

1159
01:28:55,968 --> 01:28:57,308
having people listen to you.

1160
01:28:57,748 --> 01:28:58,308
Just there's no,

1161
01:28:59,268 --> 01:29:01,648
it's hard to say that there's art

1162
01:29:01,648 --> 01:29:03,008
if there's no freedom of assembly.

1163
01:29:05,908 --> 01:29:09,068
But freedom of assembly

1164
01:29:09,068 --> 01:29:11,868
is a derivative of freedom of speech.

1165
01:29:12,328 --> 01:29:14,248
Because if you are only allowed to assemble

1166
01:29:14,248 --> 01:29:15,448
but they control your speech,

1167
01:29:15,548 --> 01:29:16,928
then how much art can you say?

1168
01:29:19,408 --> 01:29:22,128
But then I say freedom of speech

1169
01:29:22,128 --> 01:29:24,748
is a derivative of humanity's freedom.

1170
01:29:26,348 --> 01:29:28,368
There's many places where you're free to say

1171
01:29:28,368 --> 01:29:30,368
whatever you want within the framework

1172
01:29:30,368 --> 01:29:31,828
of what's allowed in the government.

1173
01:29:32,108 --> 01:29:33,288
So is that freedom of speech?

1174
01:29:34,428 --> 01:29:38,448
And then the freedom of humanity is a life,

1175
01:29:39,328 --> 01:29:44,868
it's a history of back and forth

1176
01:29:44,868 --> 01:29:47,648
on the scarcity of the world's resources,

1177
01:29:47,988 --> 01:29:50,508
whether it be land, coal, oil, anything.

1178
01:29:50,708 --> 01:29:54,408
So you can't have freedom of assembly

1179
01:29:54,408 --> 01:29:55,708
if you don't have freedom of speech.

1180
01:29:56,108 --> 01:29:57,808
You can't have freedom of speech

1181
01:29:57,808 --> 01:30:00,048
if you're not allowed to have freedom as a human.

1182
01:30:00,368 --> 01:30:12,448
You can't have freedom as a human if there's no scarcity of resources, if there's no control over the means as opposed to just an infinite printing machine.

1183
01:30:12,988 --> 01:30:20,408
Therefore, there is no Bitcoin adoption without an exponential growth of art.

1184
01:30:20,828 --> 01:30:25,528
Because art is a symptom of the freedom that's allowed.

1185
01:30:25,528 --> 01:30:29,868
particularly when it comes to freedom of expression and freedom of assembly,

1186
01:30:30,068 --> 01:30:33,988
which are inalienable rights within the U.S. Constitution.

1187
01:30:34,188 --> 01:30:35,848
Obviously, this is a U.S.-centric conversation.

1188
01:30:36,408 --> 01:30:37,328
What do you think of that?

1189
01:30:37,388 --> 01:30:41,448
Because that's sort of the framework I'm bringing specifically to artists

1190
01:30:41,448 --> 01:30:44,948
and tying it on why, right?

1191
01:30:45,008 --> 01:30:47,488
Again, because we can all get caught up, oh, art is beautiful.

1192
01:30:47,688 --> 01:30:48,548
Yeah, but why?

1193
01:30:49,008 --> 01:30:50,727
Well, because this allows you a framework of assembly.

1194
01:30:50,848 --> 01:30:52,028
Well, because there are also a framework of speech.

1195
01:30:52,028 --> 01:30:56,148
So I would love to hear your perspective on that as an artist yourself.

1196
01:30:56,148 --> 01:31:16,848
Yeah. So just to reframe or not reframe, but just to restate. So what you're saying, and I completely agree, is that the wellspring from which these freedoms arise, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, etc., is that there is the economic sovereignty under that.

1197
01:31:16,848 --> 01:31:26,748
the freedom and the ability to create and store your own wealth, to own your own time.

1198
01:31:27,428 --> 01:31:27,488
Yes.

1199
01:31:27,608 --> 01:31:32,828
And there's two things that I want to kind of maybe we'll add a little color to that.

1200
01:31:32,908 --> 01:31:37,908
The first, freedom of assembly without freedom of speech.

1201
01:31:37,908 --> 01:31:45,688
So in China, there are people who protest and they gather and they assemble.

1202
01:31:45,688 --> 01:31:50,528
and the way that they protest because they don't have freedom of speech is that they hold up blank

1203
01:31:50,528 --> 01:31:56,648
sheets of paper. Wow. Right. So you have freedom of assembly. Wow. But because you don't have

1204
01:31:56,648 --> 01:32:02,208
freedom of speech, this is all the power that I have is to hold up a white sheet of paper with

1205
01:32:02,208 --> 01:32:13,128
nothing on it. Wow. And freedom of speech within the context of your own. Yesterday I was or two

1206
01:32:13,128 --> 01:32:20,508
days ago, I was recording and my producer was telling me a joke that he had heard about a Soviet

1207
01:32:20,508 --> 01:32:28,488
and an American arguing about the freedoms that they had. And the American says, well,

1208
01:32:28,488 --> 01:32:34,208
I have freedom of speech. I can walk into the president's office and pound on his desk and say,

1209
01:32:34,328 --> 01:32:40,548
you're doing a terrible job, President Reagan. And you don't have that. And the Soviet guy goes,

1210
01:32:40,548 --> 01:32:51,268
Well, absolutely. I have that. I can walk in. I can walk into the walk into the Soviet commander's office and I can pound on his desk and I can say President Reagan's doing a terrible job.

1211
01:32:51,268 --> 01:33:00,588
and you're absolutely right in that um if we don't have the ability to call and

1212
01:33:00,588 --> 01:33:06,828
and this is why you know violence you you mentioned this in the paper but violence is always there to

1213
01:33:06,828 --> 01:33:10,668
paper over something it's always there to paper over something that we're trying to hide

1214
01:33:10,668 --> 01:33:19,368
um and and art is the thing i think for me my understanding of how it works is that it always

1215
01:33:19,368 --> 01:33:28,888
starts with comedy because comedy is just the ability to note the absurdity of injustice.

1216
01:33:29,308 --> 01:33:36,608
It's the ability to laugh at injustice and to call that out. And then it goes to music and then

1217
01:33:36,608 --> 01:33:44,468
it goes to art. But, you know, freedom of speech, expression, assembly, all of these things are

1218
01:33:44,468 --> 01:33:54,588
inherent to that ability to have a moral society that is constantly able to take its own pulse

1219
01:33:54,588 --> 01:34:01,648
and check its heartbeat against the injustices and the absurdity of those injustices.

1220
01:34:01,828 --> 01:34:02,988
Yeah, I like where you go.

1221
01:34:03,048 --> 01:34:09,348
I'm excited to hear what you write about that because your writing has just, I told Grant,

1222
01:34:10,428 --> 01:34:13,148
and please take this as a compliment.

1223
01:34:13,568 --> 01:34:18,227
I said that the difference between the first paper that you sent us and this,

1224
01:34:18,227 --> 01:34:21,928
I said this is like going from grade school to PhD.

1225
01:34:23,528 --> 01:34:29,648
The beauty and the power of the phrases that are used in here

1226
01:34:29,648 --> 01:34:43,042
and just the thoughts that I had like reading through this you know you so very correctly note that political power follows economic power which follows capital ownership

1227
01:34:43,862 --> 01:34:48,622
You know, I have to own capital in order to have cash flow.

1228
01:34:48,982 --> 01:34:55,222
And in order and and and, you know, like your your mention of you've been at these.

1229
01:34:55,922 --> 01:35:01,222
You've been at these conferences where there are politicians and billionaires and they don't go there by accident.

1230
01:35:01,402 --> 01:35:11,342
And we were talking about like, what is power? And I was like, I'm not sure if I can define what power is, but I can tell you that a politician will always be standing right next to it as close as they can get.

1231
01:35:11,342 --> 01:35:25,782
That's right. So, yeah, you can sometimes you can identify things not necessarily by the definition, but by by the nature of how things around them behave, you know.

1232
01:35:25,782 --> 01:35:30,662
So, yeah, art in that vein.

1233
01:35:32,102 --> 01:35:32,922
And Grant's in art.

1234
01:35:33,042 --> 01:35:38,362
We have beautiful pictures here on the counter over here that Grant has taken.

1235
01:35:38,362 --> 01:35:52,082
And what art is able to do in picture form is capture, you know, love, beauty, injustice, sadness, grief, horror in a millisecond.

1236
01:35:52,542 --> 01:35:57,142
And to not be able to share that.

1237
01:35:57,662 --> 01:35:57,822
That's right.

1238
01:35:58,302 --> 01:36:02,082
And to not be, and if you're able to share it, but you're not able to comment on it.

1239
01:36:02,242 --> 01:36:02,582
That's right.

1240
01:36:02,582 --> 01:36:11,782
You're able to comment on it, but you're not able to assemble around a unified belief that arises from that.

1241
01:36:12,422 --> 01:36:13,822
Again, you're right.

1242
01:36:13,962 --> 01:36:22,942
All of these things are underpinned by the ability to create and store your wealth to have ownership over your time.

1243
01:36:23,402 --> 01:36:23,822
Grant?

1244
01:36:26,322 --> 01:36:28,102
That's really beautiful.

1245
01:36:28,102 --> 01:36:32,202
And I also agree with what you say about your writing, Sal.

1246
01:36:32,202 --> 01:36:43,162
Like there's an artistic element to what you're doing as part of, you could say, rhetoric, but I would be to diminish it in the vein of what art adds to the conversation.

1247
01:36:43,602 --> 01:36:49,922
Another quote you had that I really appreciated here, Sal, you wrote, a person who cannot save is a person who cannot plan.

1248
01:36:50,442 --> 01:36:53,662
A community that can plan is a community that cannot dream.

1249
01:36:53,662 --> 01:37:11,462
And so artists are the dreamers. And if you take away somebody's economic security, you take away somebody's ability to have the cause and effect of I do and therefore I prosper, therefore I have something to save, then you can really snip off a person's ability to dream and create.

1250
01:37:11,462 --> 01:37:25,102
And then you get a society without dreamers. You get a society of endless TikTok videos. You get a society where people create in order to consume immediately, not to create a thought that's going to last a generation, but to create a thought that can be sold to somebody in a second.

1251
01:37:25,642 --> 01:37:31,442
And so the relationship to Bitcoin and art is just so deep, but I'm incredibly excited to see what you write about this.

1252
01:37:31,442 --> 01:37:41,402
Well, just to go, this may get a little evangelical, but when you kill the dream, you know, what are what are dreams?

1253
01:37:41,482 --> 01:37:43,742
Our dreams are subconscious speaking to us.

1254
01:37:43,742 --> 01:37:48,202
And we don't know where that comes from, but we do know that it's not us.

1255
01:37:48,322 --> 01:37:59,262
Right. It's it's either, you know, the unified consciousness of of of humanity or it's God or or something like that.

1256
01:37:59,262 --> 01:38:21,862
And so what are we doing when we are enacting this structural violence that destroys hope, that kills dreams, is that we are silencing, we are suffocating, we're killing the beauty of the human consciousness and of a spirit or God speaking to people.

1257
01:38:21,862 --> 01:38:30,142
we're taking away their ability to commune with the spirit that connects them to other humans.

1258
01:38:31,742 --> 01:38:32,342
Yeah.

1259
01:38:32,922 --> 01:38:42,882
And I think, you know, not only it's, I mean, I have goosebumps listening to you all interpretation of that framework because it's beautiful.

1260
01:38:43,062 --> 01:38:43,662
It's incredible.

1261
01:38:43,882 --> 01:38:45,002
It's truth, right?

1262
01:38:46,142 --> 01:38:51,202
But the reason why for this paper, I chose to keep the reader engaged to two separate words.

1263
01:38:51,862 --> 01:38:52,822
lives, right?

1264
01:38:53,082 --> 01:38:54,022
A religious life.

1265
01:38:54,442 --> 01:38:56,202
Monsignor Romero, now Saint Romero.

1266
01:38:56,702 --> 01:38:58,582
First Salvadoran ever to be

1267
01:38:58,582 --> 01:39:00,982
elevated to sinhood by the church.

1268
01:39:01,582 --> 01:39:03,102
And the second one is

1269
01:39:03,102 --> 01:39:04,682
Victor Jara, the singer.

1270
01:39:05,682 --> 01:39:06,702
It's because

1271
01:39:06,702 --> 01:39:08,862
I use those threads throughout

1272
01:39:08,862 --> 01:39:14,322
to help

1273
01:39:14,322 --> 01:39:16,762
the reader, the audience,

1274
01:39:17,062 --> 01:39:19,042
humanity, really, to help humans,

1275
01:39:19,042 --> 01:39:19,462
right?

1276
01:39:19,462 --> 01:39:26,322
have a signal, have a way of saying,

1277
01:39:26,822 --> 01:39:31,682
okay, not only has this happened before,

1278
01:39:32,282 --> 01:39:35,462
but if I remain curious,

1279
01:39:35,982 --> 01:39:40,662
there's a chance I have a way out.

1280
01:39:41,022 --> 01:39:43,802
I have a way to protect my life

1281
01:39:43,802 --> 01:39:46,762
through private capital in this lifetime.

1282
01:39:46,762 --> 01:39:50,002
There's a framework

1283
01:39:50,002 --> 01:39:53,582
There's a framework I've heard

1284
01:39:53,582 --> 01:39:54,742
And it's interesting

1285
01:39:54,742 --> 01:39:57,102
As far as seeing time

1286
01:39:57,102 --> 01:39:59,702
As an intergenerational tool of change

1287
01:39:59,702 --> 01:40:02,962
So you don't plan

1288
01:40:02,962 --> 01:40:04,462
For your life

1289
01:40:04,462 --> 01:40:06,542
You plan for your multiple generations

1290
01:40:06,542 --> 01:40:08,122
And obviously

1291
01:40:08,122 --> 01:40:10,862
The really wealthy folks call this state planning

1292
01:40:10,862 --> 01:40:12,822
So it's

1293
01:40:12,822 --> 01:40:14,482
It's true for them

1294
01:40:14,482 --> 01:40:16,542
Somebody working two full times

1295
01:40:16,542 --> 01:40:18,502
and a part-time job, that's not truth at all.

1296
01:40:18,662 --> 01:40:20,042
They're like, they can't even think that, right?

1297
01:40:21,702 --> 01:40:24,362
But within that framework of using time

1298
01:40:24,362 --> 01:40:28,262
as a tool for intergenerational growth,

1299
01:40:28,622 --> 01:40:29,802
wealth, protection,

1300
01:40:32,482 --> 01:40:35,362
then what Bitcoin allows in this lifetime

1301
01:40:35,362 --> 01:40:38,382
compared to any other commodity I have come across

1302
01:40:38,382 --> 01:40:42,822
is that it actually allows you to change it

1303
01:40:42,822 --> 01:40:45,442
in your lifetime right now.

1304
01:40:46,542 --> 01:40:52,222
when I, the conversations I've had

1305
01:40:52,222 --> 01:40:53,862
through all these trips, engaging people,

1306
01:40:53,862 --> 01:40:55,822
when I start framing it like that,

1307
01:40:56,562 --> 01:41:00,682
there seems to be a shock value to,

1308
01:41:02,822 --> 01:41:06,222
wow, if I really huddle, hold on for your life,

1309
01:41:06,302 --> 01:41:07,282
yeah, but what does that really mean?

1310
01:41:07,322 --> 01:41:08,782
What's the other side of that?

1311
01:41:09,102 --> 01:41:12,522
If I really allocate and study it

1312
01:41:12,522 --> 01:41:14,002
and find truth about this,

1313
01:41:14,002 --> 01:41:17,382
that means that the half-life of my wealth

1314
01:41:17,382 --> 01:41:21,342
is not going to be diminished by 50% in 35 years.

1315
01:41:21,402 --> 01:41:22,802
That means that in 35 years,

1316
01:41:22,802 --> 01:41:26,402
I will be able to retire multiple generations.

1317
01:41:26,622 --> 01:41:30,502
So that's a little bit of where I think in general,

1318
01:41:31,722 --> 01:41:34,802
the concept of art,

1319
01:41:34,802 --> 01:41:38,062
you cannot have art, true art,

1320
01:41:38,262 --> 01:41:40,862
without freedom of speech and freedom of assembly.

1321
01:41:40,862 --> 01:41:49,722
So art for me, as the Bitcoin adoption curve, a sign of Bitcoin adoption will be the increase of art.

1322
01:41:50,282 --> 01:41:54,222
And I agree with you, whether that's comedy, whether that's paintings, everything.

1323
01:41:54,442 --> 01:41:55,502
And we see some of that already.

1324
01:41:55,782 --> 01:42:01,262
I mean, I'm so happy to hear that you're already writing some songs about this.

1325
01:42:01,702 --> 01:42:06,642
There's the Lugano, the Satoshi sort of thing.

1326
01:42:06,782 --> 01:42:08,242
So it's already happening, right?

1327
01:42:08,242 --> 01:42:22,962
But I do agree with you, this will be eventually institutionalized. And I, you know, I finished this paper with several predictions where one of them is the scalability of art. Another one, I anticipate sort of a CNN network style for Bitcoin.

1328
01:42:22,962 --> 01:42:29,822
I anticipate, you know, consolidation and proliferation of podcasts.

1329
01:42:29,962 --> 01:42:35,262
We need more, not less, because that's an antibody, right, that protects the podcast,

1330
01:42:35,402 --> 01:42:39,342
protect against this, protects against obfuscation, right?

1331
01:42:39,822 --> 01:42:47,662
And I think in general, just again, to also not get lost in the message here,

1332
01:42:47,762 --> 01:42:51,382
what you both have been doing, think about it.

1333
01:42:51,382 --> 01:42:52,382
I found you in Cornell.

1334
01:42:52,382 --> 01:42:53,402
I did not know it at all.

1335
01:42:54,202 --> 01:43:16,122
But here in Cornell, in Ithaca, New York, as I got Jason's book, in my own truth-telling process, my own prosecution process, accountability process, my own reparations process, and then institutional reform, I find two other folks, two other guys on YouTube chatting about Jason's thesis, chatting about Lynn's work.

1336
01:43:16,882 --> 01:43:17,662
Shout out to her as well.

1337
01:43:17,662 --> 01:43:24,602
I said, this is incredible. This is beautiful because guess how many sponsor ads I saw? Zero.

1338
01:43:25,602 --> 01:43:33,942
So the incentives were very clear. The signal comes through very fast for folks that are in the space that Lucas and Grant's incentives are truth-seeking, period.

1339
01:43:34,722 --> 01:43:40,042
Nothing wrong with sponsors. I actually think that, you know, there's nothing wrong with doing well while doing good.

1340
01:43:40,582 --> 01:43:45,162
I think that's the beauty of Bitcoin. It allows competitive cooperation.

1341
01:43:45,162 --> 01:43:49,222
Goal leads to exploitation

1342
01:43:49,222 --> 01:43:53,242
So art

1343
01:43:53,242 --> 01:43:57,482
You cannot have a meaningful free society without art

1344
01:43:57,482 --> 01:44:01,522
And that's something that I do spend a couple pages just trying

1345
01:44:01,522 --> 01:44:03,102
To name it

1346
01:44:03,102 --> 01:44:04,922
And again, it ties to violence

1347
01:44:04,922 --> 01:44:10,082
Lack of art is a lot of violence in those ecosystems

1348
01:44:10,082 --> 01:44:11,802
And there are societies right now that

1349
01:44:11,802 --> 01:44:15,062
I did not know that about the Chinese, for example

1350
01:44:15,062 --> 01:44:16,862
Well, that's very sad to hear.

1351
01:44:17,682 --> 01:44:17,782
Yeah.

1352
01:44:18,922 --> 01:44:21,102
One observation I want to make.

1353
01:44:22,002 --> 01:44:27,922
So you were talking about the, so institutional reform is number four.

1354
01:44:27,922 --> 01:44:28,622
Yes.

1355
01:44:28,862 --> 01:44:41,442
The unique thing about Bitcoin is that Lindsay, when she conducts her own reparations by taking her Uber money and putting into Bitcoin.

1356
01:44:41,862 --> 01:44:42,162
Yes.

1357
01:44:42,162 --> 01:44:51,922
she is part of an institutional reform that does not require politicians amen the institutional

1358
01:44:51,922 --> 01:44:58,162
reform is happening from the inside out it's happening outside of

1359
01:44:58,162 --> 01:45:04,602
parties making the institute because that's always the problem with institutional reforms

1360
01:45:04,602 --> 01:45:11,602
that in order to take out the bully you need a bigger bully as a bigger bully comes in and they

1361
01:45:11,602 --> 01:45:21,402
institute their own reforms that while they may not harm the same people as before, they certainly

1362
01:45:21,402 --> 01:45:29,442
always will prefer some over others. And so this institutional reform is fascinating because

1363
01:45:29,442 --> 01:45:36,082
it is institutional reform that happens without the institution. It does not require any sort of

1364
01:45:36,082 --> 01:45:43,342
institutional involvement, that it's all on an individual basis rising up. We're concurrently

1365
01:45:43,342 --> 01:45:48,702
reading The Price of Tomorrow by Jeff Booth. Oh, that's an incredible book. I'm so happy you are.

1366
01:45:49,282 --> 01:45:57,502
And so he does a fantastic job of identifying what is the thing that allows monopolies to build,

1367
01:45:57,502 --> 01:46:02,902
and it is infrastructure. If it was the railways, then it was who had the best physical railway

1368
01:46:02,902 --> 01:46:08,762
infrastructure. When it was video, it was Blockbuster that had the best infrastructure

1369
01:46:08,762 --> 01:46:13,962
of having all the stores and the availability. When it goes to digital, it's who has the best

1370
01:46:13,962 --> 01:46:20,582
digital infrastructure. And so it's always about infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure,

1371
01:46:20,582 --> 01:46:27,062
because the infrastructure is what allows the creators to come to it. The infrastructure of

1372
01:46:27,062 --> 01:46:33,262
Amazon is what allows millions of suppliers to come to it and put their products on it.

1373
01:46:33,342 --> 01:46:39,442
The infrastructure of YouTube is what allows millions of creators to come to it and put their content on it.

1374
01:46:39,882 --> 01:46:43,262
Of iTunes allows the artists to come there and put it on.

1375
01:46:43,262 --> 01:46:51,922
So the infrastructure of Bitcoin is what allows millions of people to come to it and put their time into it and put their wealth into it.

1376
01:46:51,922 --> 01:47:21,762
So it is, it is always an infrastructure. It's a competition over who has the best infrastructure. Yeah. So I, that, I just, I find that fascinating to be able to identify that one thing that builds a monopoly. The thing that builds the monopoly, it's not the strategy and it's not this and that. It is, it is the infrastructure that allows for other people to come to it and, and, and, and utilize that infrastructure.

1377
01:47:21,922 --> 01:47:25,482
in a meeting place of buyers and sellers,

1378
01:47:25,862 --> 01:47:28,782
of educators and curiosity.

1379
01:47:30,122 --> 01:47:30,782
Yeah, so.

1380
01:47:31,442 --> 01:47:33,402
And not to mention as far as infrastructure

1381
01:47:33,402 --> 01:47:34,622
and he's, I mean, Jeff,

1382
01:47:34,742 --> 01:47:37,762
where the ecosystem is so lucky to have a thinker

1383
01:47:37,762 --> 01:47:39,462
like Jeff and a practitioner too

1384
01:47:39,462 --> 01:47:42,422
through his venture capital fund.

1385
01:47:42,682 --> 01:47:44,462
So thinking and practicing, I love it.

1386
01:47:44,562 --> 01:47:45,882
He does everything.

1387
01:47:47,802 --> 01:47:50,422
Just to show two specific examples, right?

1388
01:47:50,422 --> 01:48:15,782
Bitcoin is multidimensional because what gridless is doing with energy infrastructure in unserved villages in Africa is bringing energy, which with no energy, more likely for disease, more likely for early death, more likely to all sorts of diseases and not thriving in your life.

1389
01:48:15,782 --> 01:48:26,862
But because of Bitcoin, it monetizes what monopolies, it monetizes things outside and beyond what monopolies can.

1390
01:48:27,762 --> 01:48:29,402
And what do I mean by that?

1391
01:48:31,502 --> 01:48:39,782
A bloated public-private partnership in those countries obviously makes no monetary sense for them to go where GreenList identifies it.

1392
01:48:39,842 --> 01:48:40,882
It makes monetary sense.

1393
01:48:41,622 --> 01:48:43,662
Like, obviously, that's not Sal's and Lucas' opinions.

1394
01:48:43,662 --> 01:48:45,482
That's just the facts, right?

1395
01:48:45,782 --> 01:49:04,562
So imagine that at scale, and we're seeing it, right? Realists, and they're very open. People can Google this. This is happening right now. So it's not just Lindsay's life being transformed in the United States through her own institutional reform, but it's also that entire village.

1396
01:49:04,562 --> 01:49:22,962
And out of that village, not only are we empowering folks back with dignity that they didn't have before electricity, but we're empowering the next generation of God knows what type of trailblazer, thinker, entrepreneur, innovator, all because of energy and the infrastructure that Bitcoin allows.

1397
01:49:22,962 --> 01:49:26,002
And we'll continue scaling through the how it ends, right?

1398
01:49:26,002 --> 01:49:33,102
Bitcoin incentivizes all of us to get stronger, more efficient.

1399
01:49:34,402 --> 01:49:37,662
And Bitcoin is going to have another paper coming into international development, right?

1400
01:49:37,782 --> 01:49:46,822
Like NGOs are incentivized to, on a FIA standard, to keep the problem going.

1401
01:49:47,122 --> 01:49:50,182
Because that's where their funding comes from, right?

1402
01:49:50,642 --> 01:49:51,462
Typically, right?

1403
01:49:51,502 --> 01:49:52,662
This is very high level.

1404
01:49:52,922 --> 01:49:54,822
There's nuances here and all that.

1405
01:49:54,822 --> 01:49:57,182
but on a Bitcoin standard

1406
01:49:57,182 --> 01:49:59,002
or something like BitBonds, right?

1407
01:49:59,482 --> 01:50:01,542
Like using some level,

1408
01:50:01,642 --> 01:50:03,262
some of the upside of Bitcoin,

1409
01:50:03,982 --> 01:50:05,842
then that entire business model

1410
01:50:05,842 --> 01:50:08,382
is going to be completely changed.

1411
01:50:08,562 --> 01:50:09,922
And there's a few, you know,

1412
01:50:09,982 --> 01:50:10,662
folks doing that.

1413
01:50:10,762 --> 01:50:11,982
John Donahue in El Salvador.

1414
01:50:13,222 --> 01:50:15,782
There's another one, Merck's Lives in Ecuador,

1415
01:50:15,922 --> 01:50:17,062
I think, and in El Salvador as well.

1416
01:50:17,222 --> 01:50:18,182
You already start seeing

1417
01:50:18,182 --> 01:50:19,322
through a Bitcoin standard,

1418
01:50:19,502 --> 01:50:22,362
these folks are affecting meaningful change.

1419
01:50:23,102 --> 01:50:23,962
So it,

1420
01:50:24,822 --> 01:50:34,302
What I learned from Jeff Booth among the many things that I've learned, but the key one is there has never been a true free market.

1421
01:50:36,802 --> 01:50:37,942
That's a tough one.

1422
01:50:38,862 --> 01:50:43,842
And I've been here at the MBA with folks that go straight to finance, Wall Street.

1423
01:50:44,542 --> 01:50:48,522
That's a tough one for me to set my own process.

1424
01:50:48,682 --> 01:50:51,502
I'm like, okay, I have to tell the truth here to myself.

1425
01:50:51,502 --> 01:51:01,762
And not only that, but what I thought was a free market with a 2% inflation rate, which is obviously higher, but the half-life of my wealth will be about 35 years.

1426
01:51:03,082 --> 01:51:04,302
That's another tough one.

1427
01:51:05,382 --> 01:51:09,762
And the thing about Jeff Booth, and I think he only mentions Bitcoin twice in that book.

1428
01:51:09,922 --> 01:51:12,882
So he's not, you know, it's not a Bitcoin book.

1429
01:51:13,502 --> 01:51:17,342
It's a life sort of economic framework book, a technology book.

1430
01:51:17,342 --> 01:51:18,862
I think that

1431
01:51:18,862 --> 01:51:21,762
When you start seeing that

1432
01:51:21,762 --> 01:51:23,522
You can't really

1433
01:51:23,522 --> 01:51:24,302
Unsee it

1434
01:51:24,302 --> 01:51:27,562
Right? And we go back to how

1435
01:51:27,562 --> 01:51:28,522
We started this conversation

1436
01:51:28,522 --> 01:51:30,222
Well, but why?

1437
01:51:32,582 --> 01:51:33,382
Well, because

1438
01:51:33,382 --> 01:51:35,402
There is a violence that we're enduring

1439
01:51:35,402 --> 01:51:37,362
In this

1440
01:51:37,362 --> 01:51:39,342
Debasement. Is it a physical

1441
01:51:39,342 --> 01:51:41,042
Crime? Did somebody come and punch me?

1442
01:51:41,402 --> 01:51:43,542
Did the Fed come and punch me? Of course not

1443
01:51:43,542 --> 01:51:45,262
No. But in

1444
01:51:45,262 --> 01:51:47,322
35 years, it's very like

1445
01:51:47,342 --> 01:51:53,982
that with that inflation, I might not even have enough to invest in a life-saving plan that might

1446
01:51:53,982 --> 01:51:58,942
save my life and I might just perish, not to get fatalistic, but there's real kinetic implications

1447
01:51:58,942 --> 01:52:06,742
to this, right? So I can't wait to hear the study sessions about Jeff. He is an incredible systems

1448
01:52:06,742 --> 01:52:15,242
thinker. No, and we're looking forward to talking about that one. I mean, thank you, Sal. Like,

1449
01:52:15,242 --> 01:52:19,382
I felt like this conversation brought us through the transitional justice arc.

1450
01:52:19,502 --> 01:52:24,062
I mean, we went from violence through truth, through reconciliation to knowledge.

1451
01:52:24,062 --> 01:52:34,862
And I mean, I feel like I came in greater understanding to having you expand a bit on violence and then connecting it to your personal experience and then moving us through the purpose of the knowledge network.

1452
01:52:35,262 --> 01:52:39,982
You had generously said you kind of had until maybe 12 your time and we're at that point.

1453
01:52:39,982 --> 01:52:45,722
So I wanted to see, was there anything else you wanted to add that you didn't get to say you were hoping to reflect upon or any?

1454
01:52:46,362 --> 01:52:49,842
You're so, what you do on Twitter is so amazing.

1455
01:52:49,962 --> 01:52:52,122
You're such a booster of the knowledge network.

1456
01:52:52,402 --> 01:52:57,142
You're always like Sal underscore Pineda1 as your Twitter handle, X handle.

1457
01:52:57,442 --> 01:52:59,682
What you do on Twitter is just such a great thing.

1458
01:52:59,722 --> 01:53:01,802
It's such a positive and energetic presence.

1459
01:53:02,482 --> 01:53:05,022
Are there any projects, anything else you want to share?

1460
01:53:05,842 --> 01:53:06,382
Thank you.

1461
01:53:06,442 --> 01:53:06,782
Thank you.

1462
01:53:06,782 --> 01:53:10,782
And we can, you know, have like 10 more minutes so we can kind of land the plane in the next 10 minutes.

1463
01:53:11,922 --> 01:53:22,542
I think, listen, and somebody asked me this in a space a couple of days ago and it got me very, it was very interesting.

1464
01:53:22,702 --> 01:53:28,402
I never quite had experience it in a space that quick.

1465
01:53:28,742 --> 01:53:34,262
It was a lady that jumped on the space towards the end.

1466
01:53:34,362 --> 01:53:36,402
I was talking about, you know, I think I did a pullover.

1467
01:53:36,782 --> 01:53:42,242
was a post on the Bitcoin army and just how live folks were sending sats and it was happening live

1468
01:53:42,242 --> 01:53:48,242
to get more folks involved in the Bitcoin army has like no sponsors. I'm not a paid sponsor. I

1469
01:53:48,242 --> 01:53:52,702
don't, I literally have no affiliation. I mean, I am a member of it, but I don't pay them. They

1470
01:53:52,702 --> 01:53:58,122
don't pay me, but I'm a student of the dollars network. And I said, people are spending their

1471
01:53:58,122 --> 01:54:04,262
Bitcoin to bring other Bitcoiners, to bring newbies or a little more advanced into an ecosystem where

1472
01:54:04,262 --> 01:54:09,382
It is a safe space for folks to have a wide array of opinions to learn.

1473
01:54:09,902 --> 01:54:11,882
Like, this is an example of a Bitcoin network.

1474
01:54:12,442 --> 01:54:13,782
And it's happening all over the world.

1475
01:54:13,862 --> 01:54:15,502
So I, you know, highlighted that.

1476
01:54:15,642 --> 01:54:17,362
Thank you for the kind words of elevating.

1477
01:54:17,482 --> 01:54:23,942
I think that I cannot understand my life, my life's purpose, if it's not in service of followers.

1478
01:54:24,562 --> 01:54:25,542
I just can't.

1479
01:54:25,542 --> 01:54:28,182
I've been through enough

1480
01:54:28,182 --> 01:54:31,242
scarcity and pain in my life

1481
01:54:31,242 --> 01:54:34,662
to know that I was only able to overcome that

1482
01:54:34,662 --> 01:54:36,802
not just through healing and self-growth,

1483
01:54:36,922 --> 01:54:38,342
but by giving, right?

1484
01:54:38,642 --> 01:54:40,442
When you focus on impacting others,

1485
01:54:40,622 --> 01:54:42,402
you have very little time to focus on your misery.

1486
01:54:43,242 --> 01:54:46,622
And that's just something that for me has worked.

1487
01:54:47,402 --> 01:54:48,902
Obviously, I'm a big believer in therapy.

1488
01:54:49,062 --> 01:54:50,122
I'm big of like people, you know,

1489
01:54:50,222 --> 01:54:51,882
there's a wide range of tools, right?

1490
01:54:51,882 --> 01:54:54,362
But sitting there and just sitting on the misery,

1491
01:54:54,362 --> 01:54:57,102
It's a very dark place to live, right?

1492
01:54:57,122 --> 01:55:00,722
And somebody asked me this, this Latino lady got on space.

1493
01:55:00,882 --> 01:55:02,042
She said my name is Spanish.

1494
01:55:02,042 --> 01:55:11,722
And she's like, I would love to hear your perspective about, you know, for the Latino community, what can we do?

1495
01:55:11,822 --> 01:55:13,442
You know, how can we access the space?

1496
01:55:14,142 --> 01:55:15,942
And why can we do more value?

1497
01:55:16,062 --> 01:55:24,162
Because, you know, things, you know, there's a lot of complexities, right, for some minorities in the world.

1498
01:55:24,362 --> 01:55:31,582
and right just hearing that right this is after like talking to to an audience of oh yeah this is

1499
01:55:31,582 --> 01:55:37,082
a u.s. centric perspective but just kind of hearing that and she was so enthusiastic i remember being

1500
01:55:37,082 --> 01:55:43,682
taken back and saying okay she said what are like the key messages you want to give to latinos and i

1501
01:55:43,682 --> 01:55:49,482
was like okay well this is this is this free open space so you know this is not prepared questions

1502
01:55:49,482 --> 01:55:51,922
I said, you know what?

1503
01:55:52,302 --> 01:55:53,942
The recording is somewhere online.

1504
01:55:54,042 --> 01:55:58,282
But I said, there's three things I recommend to anyone.

1505
01:55:59,342 --> 01:56:05,922
Because this is beyond any, any type of age, race, country, geography.

1506
01:56:07,982 --> 01:56:13,882
On the framework that poverty sucks, to me, that's the truth.

1507
01:56:13,982 --> 01:56:16,482
But to some people, right, they think poverty does not suck.

1508
01:56:16,482 --> 01:56:19,162
And everybody has a right within freedom of speech.

1509
01:56:19,482 --> 01:56:20,242
To think that.

1510
01:56:21,622 --> 01:56:25,982
I said for number one, don't ever settle for accepting poverty.

1511
01:56:27,702 --> 01:56:28,622
Just don't.

1512
01:56:28,622 --> 01:56:29,622
Do not settle.

1513
01:56:32,002 --> 01:56:32,962
Number two.

1514
01:56:35,102 --> 01:56:36,402
Do not.

1515
01:56:39,942 --> 01:56:41,822
Give up on hope.

1516
01:56:42,662 --> 01:56:46,122
On a better tomorrow starting today.

1517
01:56:47,102 --> 01:56:48,802
Right now it might be miserable.

1518
01:56:48,802 --> 01:56:52,622
but it could be that the day could finish being less miserable.

1519
01:56:53,062 --> 01:56:55,442
It could be you're going to have a breakthrough in the next few minutes.

1520
01:56:59,262 --> 01:57:02,422
And number three, I remember telling this lady in this space,

1521
01:57:03,402 --> 01:57:06,122
don't give up faith.

1522
01:57:07,162 --> 01:57:08,442
Whatever that might look like,

1523
01:57:09,782 --> 01:57:12,902
whether you have a particular sort of interpretation

1524
01:57:12,902 --> 01:57:15,842
or framework of a God,

1525
01:57:16,422 --> 01:57:18,702
whether you're atheist, whatever.

1526
01:57:18,802 --> 01:57:19,682
It is.

1527
01:57:21,802 --> 01:57:24,402
Don't give up because having that framework

1528
01:57:24,402 --> 01:57:30,182
then allows you to not quit right now

1529
01:57:30,182 --> 01:57:32,622
and try for one more second.

1530
01:57:33,082 --> 01:57:35,682
And the breakthrough might come in that next second.

1531
01:57:39,502 --> 01:57:42,682
And as I start investing thousands of my hours

1532
01:57:42,682 --> 01:57:44,202
traveling and doing all this,

1533
01:57:44,202 --> 01:57:48,322
and we stand on the work of giants like Jeff Booth,

1534
01:57:48,322 --> 01:57:53,682
how funny, you know, he's no longer with us, but his work is still open.

1535
01:57:56,062 --> 01:57:59,522
What Bitcoin allows people, right?

1536
01:57:59,982 --> 01:58:04,962
And it's up to Bitcoin is a political and I talk to folks from the left and from the

1537
01:58:04,962 --> 01:58:06,422
right and centrist and libertarians.

1538
01:58:07,282 --> 01:58:10,262
Bitcoin allows is to not give up right now.

1539
01:58:10,442 --> 01:58:13,342
So that gives you one more second for a possible breakthrough.

1540
01:58:13,342 --> 01:58:23,542
It allows you to not give up on the hope because nobody can print or finagle Bitcoin away.

1541
01:58:24,082 --> 01:58:24,622
It's transparent.

1542
01:58:24,782 --> 01:58:25,302
It's very viable.

1543
01:58:26,942 --> 01:58:37,982
And the third one, and this is up to people's journalism background, it reinforces or it gives you back hope, faith.

1544
01:58:40,962 --> 01:58:42,702
Absolutely non-religious.

1545
01:58:42,702 --> 01:58:45,582
This is just however people want to take this.

1546
01:58:45,742 --> 01:58:51,022
But those are the three steps that, at least for me, serve as a guiding light as an educator.

1547
01:58:54,002 --> 01:58:59,322
Because some of the best conversations I've had are with folks that have the breakthrough during the conversation.

1548
01:59:01,362 --> 01:59:03,962
And obviously, I mean, I love the conversation that we're having right now.

1549
01:59:03,982 --> 01:59:05,842
And I can't wait to, you know, send you the other paper.

1550
01:59:06,142 --> 01:59:07,202
This is amazing.

1551
01:59:07,822 --> 01:59:10,922
Yeah, but we have put in the thousands of hours of work.

1552
01:59:10,922 --> 01:59:19,122
educating and preaching, you know, and helping folks in the presence of truth telling,

1553
01:59:19,862 --> 01:59:25,202
that's a distinctly purposeful journey for me.

1554
01:59:25,342 --> 01:59:29,522
And I feel very confident speaking for you both, for yourself as well.

1555
01:59:29,522 --> 01:59:33,942
I mean, your study sessions impacted a young man in Cornell that was trying to do something

1556
01:59:33,942 --> 01:59:37,262
in an ecosystem that everybody, that most people did not believe in what he was doing

1557
01:59:37,262 --> 01:59:37,802
from Bitcoin.

1558
01:59:38,202 --> 01:59:39,022
That's you both.

1559
01:59:39,022 --> 01:59:43,742
that's not that's not in there that's not the books that's not the books helped her but that

1560
01:59:43,742 --> 01:59:50,722
was seeing your conversation with my headphones in a library that has led to so much growth and

1561
01:59:50,722 --> 01:59:54,642
added value it was you know it was supported through the work you guys are doing because

1562
01:59:54,642 --> 02:00:00,242
you guys thought framework so just that you know to me that i always leave it with a very

1563
02:00:00,242 --> 02:00:06,842
empowering message because what is life if not evolution and growth right not sal's opinion just

1564
02:00:06,842 --> 02:00:09,842
objectively. What is life if not evolution and growth?

1565
02:00:10,422 --> 02:00:12,682
And I think that it's easy to

1566
02:00:12,682 --> 02:00:16,542
not take that, to take a

1567
02:00:16,542 --> 02:00:19,322
sorrowful, a dark approach to life.

1568
02:00:20,202 --> 02:00:23,382
And it takes strength to take an evolution and growth.

1569
02:00:23,602 --> 02:00:26,802
But the reason why my paper sent to deal with dark, heavy

1570
02:00:26,802 --> 02:00:30,562
topics is because I was fortunate

1571
02:00:30,562 --> 02:00:34,322
enough to survive some of those impacts

1572
02:00:34,322 --> 02:00:36,802
that I described, desk walls and whatnot.

1573
02:00:38,242 --> 02:00:40,622
But most importantly, I came out the other side.

1574
02:00:41,302 --> 02:00:42,442
Like I did put in the work.

1575
02:00:42,522 --> 02:00:44,022
I did spend time in the fiat world.

1576
02:00:44,142 --> 02:00:45,222
I did do all of that.

1577
02:00:45,362 --> 02:00:46,662
I did use our fiat standard.

1578
02:00:47,222 --> 02:00:49,442
And I did feel hopeless and it was miserable.

1579
02:00:50,222 --> 02:00:53,502
So my well of empathy is quite long.

1580
02:00:53,602 --> 02:00:54,142
It's quite deep.

1581
02:00:54,282 --> 02:00:55,622
I can empathize, right?

1582
02:00:56,142 --> 02:00:59,702
And I think that landing the plane here,

1583
02:01:00,242 --> 02:01:02,602
the darkness of my research

1584
02:01:02,602 --> 02:01:06,022
And the intensity, I will say, maybe not necessarily darkness, right?

1585
02:01:06,082 --> 02:01:10,042
Because we will have it, but we will have experienced this level of pain.

1586
02:01:10,222 --> 02:01:14,842
But my ability to call it out comes from a place of empowering.

1587
02:01:14,982 --> 02:01:26,642
And when I see Lindsay in her Uber, when I see the Bitcoin army, when I see you all, when I see so many folks I'm taking the time to categorize, it just fills me with joy, literally.

1588
02:01:27,102 --> 02:01:28,782
So I hope that makes sense.

1589
02:01:28,842 --> 02:01:30,842
And I'm just super grateful that we have you guys.

1590
02:01:30,842 --> 02:01:37,362
I mean, we feel this, like, thank you so much, Sal, for the kind remarks on the conversations that we had.

1591
02:01:37,422 --> 02:01:49,442
If we had to formulate a purpose for what we do, I don't know that we could have had a better, like, you disembodied it, to reach out, to expand the conversation on these books that we want to talk about, to bring others in.

1592
02:01:49,822 --> 02:01:57,322
And it's tough to find people sometimes to have the conversation that you need to have about a certain book or idea.

1593
02:01:57,562 --> 02:01:59,502
And thank you so much for sharing that.

1594
02:01:59,502 --> 02:02:01,982
And I just want to share something you also shared with Lucas and I.

1595
02:02:02,342 --> 02:02:07,142
We were kind of talking via DM about this conversation in the paper and whatnot.

1596
02:02:07,462 --> 02:02:10,582
And you mentioned, you know, the connection to liberation theology.

1597
02:02:10,582 --> 02:02:12,242
And you summarized it in a sentence.

1598
02:02:12,422 --> 02:02:18,462
I think your summary just beautifully kind of puts, you know, states what you're doing.

1599
02:02:19,422 --> 02:02:25,082
The summary you gave was that liberation theology summarized is you don't just pray for the poor.

1600
02:02:25,182 --> 02:02:27,642
You also roll up your sleeves to go help them.

1601
02:02:27,642 --> 02:02:34,082
and that's like to connect faith to the practical operation of Bitcoin on the ground and the

1602
02:02:34,082 --> 02:02:37,242
individual. I mean, what you're doing is so beautiful. And Lucas, I don't know if you have

1603
02:02:37,242 --> 02:02:46,082
anything to add to that. Only that what you elucidate the way that I envision it is that

1604
02:02:46,082 --> 02:02:54,022
we need this knowledge network. We need a million different podcasts and people talking about Bitcoin

1605
02:02:54,022 --> 02:02:59,322
because every one of them is a different avenue for someone to reach truth.

1606
02:03:00,302 --> 02:03:04,722
And by reaching truth, as discussed earlier, if you reach that foundational truth,

1607
02:03:04,942 --> 02:03:08,502
then you can expand back outward and you can see the other truths.

1608
02:03:08,622 --> 02:03:14,402
You can come to Bitcoin from the avenue of inflation and understanding that truth.

1609
02:03:14,842 --> 02:03:21,002
But once you're there, that is the truth that allows you to see the structural violence.

1610
02:03:21,002 --> 02:03:25,902
It's a truth that allows you to see the endless wars and how those are funded.

1611
02:03:26,142 --> 02:03:33,002
It's this truth that allows you to see the eradication of hope and faith among the impoverished.

1612
02:03:34,062 --> 02:03:44,462
And so it gives you this expanding circle of consciousness that allows you to come at the world from a place of morality and a place of truth.

1613
02:03:47,082 --> 02:03:50,482
And just giving people more and more avenues for it.

1614
02:03:50,482 --> 02:03:52,462
We just started a sub stack.

1615
02:03:52,462 --> 02:04:00,002
And so we'll have a sub stack article where we break down our post interview thoughts about this because.

1616
02:04:00,302 --> 02:04:00,842
Oh, that's amazing.

1617
02:04:01,042 --> 02:04:01,442
I love it.

1618
02:04:01,802 --> 02:04:02,022
Yeah.

1619
02:04:02,182 --> 02:04:05,142
But that's, you know, that's another avenue.

1620
02:04:05,382 --> 02:04:05,802
That's right.

1621
02:04:06,002 --> 02:04:07,302
The Knowledge Network grows.

1622
02:04:07,582 --> 02:04:08,122
I love it.

1623
02:04:08,122 --> 02:04:24,642
And so, yeah, putting up that putting up that impenetrable net, that impenetrable wall of truth that encompasses and brings in other people and they become part of it and outwardly project their truth to other people as well.

1624
02:04:25,782 --> 02:04:29,462
It's the kind of virus that we we want to be infected with.

1625
02:04:29,802 --> 02:04:33,422
You know, it's yeah, it's that hive mind that we want to be a part of.

1626
02:04:33,422 --> 02:04:53,482
So, Sal, we really thank you for your time and we thank you for your writing and your contribution and are very excited about what you will be doing in the future in order to advance, you know, advance humanity kind of the way that you're putting it in the service of other people.

1627
02:04:53,482 --> 02:05:01,242
And you've chosen the avenue of education through Bitcoin as your weapon, as your tool, as your instrument for that.

1628
02:05:01,402 --> 02:05:03,162
So thank you for your contributions.

1629
02:05:03,422 --> 02:05:21,922
You guys are too kind. Thank you all. We all do this together. And I think that the next paper is the most exciting one for me. And what I do there is exactly this, empowering because what is life if not evolution and growth.

1630
02:05:21,922 --> 02:05:23,942
So I can't wait to share it.

1631
02:05:24,062 --> 02:05:25,162
Give me a few more weeks.

1632
02:05:25,442 --> 02:05:26,682
It should be finalized.

1633
02:05:27,182 --> 02:05:29,242
But I'm glad you got to see sort of that preview.

1634
02:05:29,522 --> 02:05:34,222
And yeah, the other part that's coming, it gets in the weeds of things.

1635
02:05:34,442 --> 02:05:38,862
And hopefully that helps, you know, this type of conversations become multifaceted.

1636
02:05:39,022 --> 02:05:39,942
So no, just thank you.

1637
02:05:40,022 --> 02:05:40,702
Thank you for what you do.

1638
02:05:40,782 --> 02:05:41,762
Full of gratitude for everything.

1639
02:05:42,442 --> 02:05:43,122
Yeah, thanks, Sal.

1640
02:05:43,202 --> 02:05:48,862
So Sal underscore Pineda1 on Twitter and then substack at Sal Pineda.

1641
02:05:49,162 --> 02:05:50,642
That's another Bitcoin Study Sessions.

1642
02:05:50,642 --> 02:05:51,502
You bet.

1643
02:05:51,922 --> 02:05:52,982
Thank you guys very much.

1644
02:05:53,042 --> 02:05:55,442
If you've made it this far, Sal just said it perfectly.

1645
02:05:55,622 --> 02:05:57,102
Remember, we're all in this together.

1646
02:05:57,762 --> 02:06:02,282
Like, subscribe, share with somebody else in order to expand this knowledge network

1647
02:06:02,282 --> 02:06:05,202
that is bringing truth and beauty to the world.

1648
02:06:05,902 --> 02:06:06,542
Thank you.

1649
02:06:07,662 --> 02:06:08,262
We're out, buddy.