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It is your favorite fourth tier podcast with third tier haircuts and first tier guests.

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From the Bitcoin prairie, we are joined by Paul from the Bitcoin jungle.

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He is a Noster ninja, the mascot of Nostradamus.

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Yeah, the mascot of Primal, mascot of Noster.

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And yeah, I tell you what, he's also got a smooth left-handed swing

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that looks like he could put some power to the gaps.

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And yeah, sweet, sweet dude.

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Paul Keating, thank you for joining us today

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from Bitcoin Jungle.

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Bitcoin Prairie.

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Yeah, buddy.

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I love that.

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Is that a thing yet

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or is that just kind of something

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you're like speaking into existence?

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I woke up at 3.30 this morning

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and I thought Bitcoin Prairie.

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There we go.

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Yeah, I'm speaking it into existence as we go.

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I love it, man.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So, Paul, the reason why I reached out to you is because Grant and I are on this journey of learning in public, holding ourselves accountable, not only to the quality of our own self-education, but also humbling ourselves to the low quality of our haircuts and wardrobe so that we can make sure the world is well in on that with us.

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But I find myself thinking a lot about Nostra these days. And the reason I find myself thinking about Nostra is because I think Bitcoin is actually a pretty easy sell. I think if anybody gives any sort of rational thought to money, they realize that the dollar doesn't work for them.

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and even the people at the top that are close and they can get the Cantillon effect, et cetera,

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they realize that long-term the dollar doesn't work for them because no dollar has ever survived.

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No fiat currency has ever survived. So I think Bitcoin's a really easy sell because money doesn't

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work for 99% of the people. And number goes up. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's very true. Number

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goes up. And so you actually have this real time, real time feedback mechanism to let you know that

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you made the right choice. And you can do that by yourself. You don't need anybody else to reinforce

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that for you because the number does. But Nostra, I'm convinced now that Nostra is inevitable,

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inevitable, as inevitable as Bitcoin. However, what I'm trying to do is for myself educate,

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how can I better bring people to NOSTER? Because the difference is for 99% of the people,

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the current internet works really well. Social media works really well because 99% of people

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are very conformist and they're either conformist in just the way that they are, or they're

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conformist because of the programming of algorithms and social media, et cetera.

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But it's a much harder sell.

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And so I kind of wanted to get your thoughts on that.

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Like, are you, do you agree also that NOSTER is inevitable, but then also what are your

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thoughts on how do we, how do we sell NOSTER?

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how do we what's our elevator pitch for Noster like we have for Bitcoin that's uh well the elevator

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pitch will change depending on who you talk to for Bitcoiners it's easy it's like dude you got

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your private keys for money you understand that and then for Noster it's like well now you got

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to take control of your voice in the internet you know like this is Noster is your private keys for

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your speech and you know there's so Noster I do actually think something like Noster is inevitable

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as well, just because of how well everything interoperates.

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Like you can take your identity and your content through multiple apps.

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And I think that like when this, when it keeps more gravity, keeps coming to the network,

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like I think it'll be Noster, but we don't know for sure.

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It's just going to all kind of make sense how you can just log in with Primal and Noster

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and all these different apps, like, and you actually own the identity.

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Now for the whole social media use case, like we have now, it's literally what I'm up at

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3.30 a.m. thinking about, like, you had the Bitcoin Prairie thing.

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I'll have, like, these ideas about Primal.

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Like, how are we going to get everybody to this more sovereign,

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less programming side of the internet,

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less just in-shittified version of social media that's actually,

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you know, we want to be aligned with our users

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and learn from our predecessors

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and just make a better digital experience for our users.

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But the problem is, and this isn't maybe a feature more than a bug,

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in my opinion, is that,

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There's only Bitcoiners there.

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Right.

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That's true.

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It's an easier sell to get a lot of Bitcoiners over because there are people already there.

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And then you kind of look at how social media is now.

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Like we got Blue Sky.

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There's supposedly like 40 million users over there.

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And they're like all very hardcore left-leaning people.

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And then Twitter is probably more center-right.

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But it's all kind of fragmented.

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and I wonder if that trend will continue or if something like Noster will kind of

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unify it all and people can just go hang out in the clubs that they like so yeah that's not like

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a very direct answer and another thing with what we see we call Noster today I think you're probably

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just referring to it as just social media right a lot of people I think that that's the only use

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case they know of it yeah for sure yeah so there's this kind of thing that's going on in the community

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right now, it's like, they're not going to know they're using Nostr.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Jack Dorsey's BitChat has like Nostr going on in the background.

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Vine, which is getting rebranded as Divine, is something that Rabble, who's a big founder

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in the community, is bringing back to Nostr.

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And all the content is going to be on Nostr.

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So you'll eventually be able to see it on Primal.

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And things like that just add this enormous gravity to the network that'll make this all

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make more sense.

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and then the whole Bitcoin piece behind it,

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which I get excited about,

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we're just light years in the future over here

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because it's so damn clear to us

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that money should just be able to flow

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anywhere on the planet easily.

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And maybe the reason that all these apps

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keep in shitifying and like, you know,

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just all the ads and their business models today

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is because money can't simply flow

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between the creators and the platforms

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and, you know, peer-to-peer like it does with Bitcoin.

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so that whole infrastructure of the zaps is just kind of light years in the future or maybe not too

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far in the future of like maybe when we can actually have you know creators coming and making

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an actual dent and actually making money on the platforms too because i'd like to say yeah come

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over you're gonna make a bunch of bitcoin but that'd be speaking out of my ass at the current

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moment. It's not true. But you can speak freely. You mentioned the gravity of Noster and things

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being drawn to it. When I look at not just the social media aspect of it, but just all of the

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decentralized apps. And I look at it a little bit, I squint a bit, and I think that I see what Jason

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Lowry talked about in software, which is that Bitcoin is the base layer for the entire internet,

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that we will literally rebuild the entire internet upon Bitcoin.

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And it appears to me that that may be Noster that is the way that we do that.

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And so when I think back to like 2021 and the craze of everybody at that time was talking about the Web3 opportunity.

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Yeah, remember that?

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Yeah, exactly.

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The example everybody was always given was like, oh, you know, you've got your Xbox game and you play whatever you play Fortnite.

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but you'll also be able to take your character and your skins and your weapons and go over and

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play grand theft auto and it'll be interchangeable and that's nostre that's literally nostre isn't it

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literally so like nostre truly is the web 3 moment that we thought we were going to get with sandbox

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um i probably probably nobody's heard anybody heard somebody say sandbox for four years now

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or yeah or those other those other attempts one thing I do want to point out

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another 3 30 a.m. thought that I got up and wrote down was you write them down that's smart

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occasionally yeah dude what is a I heard a comedian say one time that he'll get an idea

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for a joke while he's laying in bed and he either has to get up and write it down or convince

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himself that it's not funny and I'm like yeah it's a lot easier to write it down than convince

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yourself that it's not a good idea.

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You'll do that later when you look at it.

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I got to sleep by a pen and paper.

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Yeah, dude.

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Oh, yeah.

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Brilliant.

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Do you do that, Grant?

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No, I sleep like a rock.

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I don't wake up and I just get up stunned and disoriented.

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So I have no thoughts.

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So, yeah.

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Yeah, can confirm.

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Can confirm.

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Grant and I have been roommates before.

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Yeah.

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But there's Bitcoiners and there's future Bitcoiners.

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I think that's literally all there is when you talk about there being Noster here.

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I had a question for you, Paul, along that front.

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And so you really astutely point out that the nature of social media is of ideological fracture, not just Blue Sky and Twitter, but Instagram, Facebook.

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They also each kind of have like an ideological substrata that is the user base kind of gravitates toward that because they know what they're getting as far as the social network that they're entering into.

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I'm not on Nostra. I'm the Nostra newbie here.

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I've liked how Lucas has kind of been nostril-pilling me, bringing on some guests here.

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But, you know, for Bitcoiners, it's easy for us to say freedom of speech.

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That's the obviously true and correct thing.

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But maybe there is a sizable portion of humanity who are not ideologically predisposed towards a Wild West freedom of speech

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that do like an idea of a big brother, a father figure,

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controlling that speech so they're sure that they're not going to get,

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you know, on the far extreme, obscenity, but even closer,

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just like something that's going to put them in a state of animosity.

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So they're only going to hear kind of vetted messages.

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Is Noster just always going to be kind of not for that portion of humanity

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that wants a more controlled speech atmosphere?

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So not at all. It's the, the, the, the reason Noster is free speech is because not one app can

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turn off your identity, but one app can block your ass and say anything coming from this end pub.

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Like we don't want this guy here. He broke our rules. So like, it's just that you can just build

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these apps and have these old, your moderation policies. Something like Primal, we're going big.

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Like we want to be the town square, like many years in the future somehow. I don't know how

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we're going to get there to be completely honest, but we do like really believe that Nostra is a

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better infrastructure for the Times Square. But that being that aside, like if I was to ban someone

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from Primal, that'd be not beneficial for us because they would have to go to some other app

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to see the content. So, um, but that's the, that free speech part right there is like, you just

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can't cut anybody off from actually speaking, but you can get rid of somebody from like your

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individual experiences with that or whatever rules you have in your app. And there will be apps with

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those kind of rules. There will be blue sky on Noster. There will be Instagram on Noster. And

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those will just be separate. You won't go through primal. Those will just be separate constellations

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of free speech squares where people dial in the type of speech they want. Yeah. Cause like,

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it's hard to say, you know, I want to make a healthier social media, but then what does that

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even mean? You can go through a lot of different angles to that, but it's like, would I want my

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16 year old to be on there? Like my 13 year old, like that's a completely other question, like

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more of a parenting question in my opinion, but yeah.

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When you talk about the gravity of things moving towards Noster and Primal, I guess,

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can you give us an idea of the growth that is occurring within Noster?

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And also, where are we at in, if it's an S-curve of adoption,

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kind of like Bitcoin and other new technologies,

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Are we kind of in a lull right now or is activity on Noster picking up?

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Is it kind of at a higher cadence or is it kind of in a building chopping phase right now?

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So we're definitely in a more of a build chop.

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We have decent like numbers in terms of people coming and like downloading the app and everything.

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But the retention is very dismal, to be honest, just because people come.

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It's like, oh, social media.

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OK.

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And then none of their friends are there or whatever.

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so the retention isn't that great and then we've had many spikes so like we'll have a spike when

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telegram ceo gets thrown in jail then everybody's like oh yeah this whole nostor thing is important

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and then they go away but you know it's like it's all gonna happen at godspeed but at the same time

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maybe so far the only marketing juice we've had is like,

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that's like the,

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for the principles and the free speech and everything.

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And the people that are actually come in and get that.

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So we've attracted a bunch of power users and a solid like base of people

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that aren't going to go away.

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That just are here that are building on Noster that,

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you know,

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built their communities on Noster as well.

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That,

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yeah,

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I don't think that's ever going to go away.

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And it's like a solid foundation to keep building for these next waves of

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of apps and potential users.

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Yeah, and it is a solid foundation of people that are really hard to ignore

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because they're so intelligent.

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Jack Dorsey and Jeff Booth and Lynn Alden come to mind

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as people that have really leaned into Noster.

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Can we back up just a little bit as far as,

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will you give us a little bit of history of when did Noster come into play

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and how long have you been involved in the space and what drew you to Noster?

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How did you become the mascot of Noster?

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And, you know, working for Primal, being down in Bitcoin jungle

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and being like leading this kind of, yeah, cultural revolution, I guess.

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It's a quiet start, but it's getting louder for sure.

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I appreciate it. I'm stoked you can hear some of the waves.

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so Noster was created around 2020 actually by this guy named Fiat Jeff interestingly enough

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he was one of the people that was on the team to try to make Blue Sky so this whole idea of Noster

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and a protocol for social media has been around for a while and kind of been in Jack's head and

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like out there like we need this we can't just be communicating through companies and companies only

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but um in 2022 late december of 2022 is when the jackening occurred i think it was literally like

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december 22nd 2022 but jack checked me on that and there's this massive tweet thread

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about you know kind of the mistakes he had something about the twitter files

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and then people kept tweeting out of nostr check out nostr check out nostr

221
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:49,540
and he checked it out and then he was able to take his private key and use it in another app

222
00:15:49,540 --> 00:15:50,500
but still post from that.

223
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:51,760
And he had this light bulb moment.

224
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,660
He read all the specs in the GitHub and he was like,

225
00:15:53,980 --> 00:15:56,960
this is exactly what I've been philosophizing about.

226
00:15:57,420 --> 00:15:58,860
And he made a tweet about it.

227
00:15:58,860 --> 00:16:03,480
And he publicly said that he'll donate 14 Bitcoin to Fiat Jeff,

228
00:16:03,660 --> 00:16:05,580
the creator of Doster.

229
00:16:06,660 --> 00:16:10,960
And it went super viral and everybody was like trying it out.

230
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,160
And the UX was so bad that you had to,

231
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,780
you felt like a complete hacker in there.

232
00:16:17,780 --> 00:16:22,500
like when you figured out how to post an image or, you know, connect to relays.

233
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,160
And now all that, you don't even have to think about that when you come to Nostra.

234
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,360
Like, but that was, that was a fun time.

235
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,060
And then shortly after that, and I believe it was already just March of 2023.

236
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:34,460
Is that how soon it happened?

237
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:35,840
We had Nostra Rica.

238
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,380
So I'm down here in Costa Rica and this whole Nostra thing just happened to happen,

239
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,180
like literally 10 miles over there.

240
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,560
Dorsey showed up, like a bunch of people showed up and it was like,

241
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,620
And Milian, the founder of Primal was there.

242
00:16:48,660 --> 00:16:49,740
I didn't even know him at that time.

243
00:16:49,740 --> 00:16:54,620
I don't even know if I shook his hand or anything when he was down here, but he showed up and

244
00:16:54,620 --> 00:16:58,880
this thing just captured the minds of a whole bunch of people.

245
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,980
And like Milian, the founder of Primal was trying to create a protocol for social media

246
00:17:03,980 --> 00:17:04,920
as well.

247
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:10,280
But it just turns out this Nostra thing, which was dead simple, was the best way to do it.

248
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,520
and I had been working for Paul Saladino,

249
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:15,040
who's like,

250
00:17:15,100 --> 00:17:19,920
who's a creator and into the health space and he's dabbled in the Bitcoin

251
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:20,960
space a little bit as well.

252
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:21,620
And lives big,

253
00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:22,500
big meat guy,

254
00:17:22,580 --> 00:17:22,760
right?

255
00:17:22,980 --> 00:17:24,000
Big meat guy,

256
00:17:24,180 --> 00:17:24,920
big meat guy.

257
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,600
And part of that story kind of fix,

258
00:17:27,740 --> 00:17:28,620
fixes into this too,

259
00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:29,700
because I'd start,

260
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,180
started to work for him right when,

261
00:17:33,620 --> 00:17:36,020
right after he got canceled and shut off for COVID.

262
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,320
So he just started to rebuild his accounts.

263
00:17:38,420 --> 00:17:38,940
And I was like,

264
00:17:38,940 --> 00:17:43,120
brought on to just, I met him in the jungle and I was like, dude, I need work. And he's like,

265
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:48,200
dude, I need help. I was like, thank God. I want to live in the jungle, but I'm broke.

266
00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:55,840
So I got to work for him for a while. And my light bulb moment, and I still think this is

267
00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:01,060
how social media should be, is that one idea, one identity for each of your content types,

268
00:18:02,140 --> 00:18:05,200
because I would help him out. Like, I got to go into YouTube to post. Now I got to go into

269
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,580
Instagram and I got to go into TikTok and now I'm going to go to all this stuff to post the same

270
00:18:09,580 --> 00:18:14,460
content. One that's just like a waste of time and kind of weird that you have to restart from zero

271
00:18:14,460 --> 00:18:21,400
in every single app. So I like this idea of one identity for each content type.

272
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:29,040
So that whole banning and then that whole like vision of that kind of got me somewhat obsessed

273
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,460
with Noster and the fact that the people I looked up to were there. So I would just kind of hang out.

274
00:18:33,460 --> 00:18:37,560
And then I wanted to go to Japan. So I went to the second Noster Conference, you know,

275
00:18:37,740 --> 00:18:41,220
just like Jeff Booth says, if you start putting your energy towards something like

276
00:18:41,220 --> 00:18:48,260
these opportunities line up and next thing you know, um, they needed, um, like I just started

277
00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:53,380
working for Primal. I just made all these friends and it just kind of flowed perfectly. Like I had

278
00:18:53,380 --> 00:19:01,180
some skills and they needed some help. And, um, here we are today. One thing you said that I really

279
00:19:01,180 --> 00:19:08,220
want to focus on, you talk about like kind of the killer feature or basically a big sales point

280
00:19:08,220 --> 00:19:15,480
beyond free speech for Noster is that you get one sign in. So I love this idea. I have one digital

281
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:22,260
identity and that digital identity is consistent among my music player and it's consistent among

282
00:19:22,260 --> 00:19:30,940
my Twitter type feed and my Instagram type and it'll be consistent on Shopster. We're going to

283
00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:36,480
have Christian Alvarez, the Calvadev, the founder of Shopster on next week, which is a, you know,

284
00:19:36,540 --> 00:19:41,440
decentralized shopping platform. But one thing that as you're, as you're talking about having

285
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:47,980
these different identities for different apps, it truly is a different identity. I'm a different

286
00:19:47,980 --> 00:19:54,300
person when I post on X, then when I post on X, I'm introspective and I'm thoughtful. When I post

287
00:19:54,300 --> 00:20:02,320
on Instagram, I'm shallow and I'm vain when I, you know, right. And so, um, I think that there,

288
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:08,300
you know, this fragmenting of our, of our souls and our psyches that we feel as a result of being

289
00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:13,180
pulled in all these different directions due to trying to please different online masters.

290
00:20:13,180 --> 00:20:18,380
You see it, man. Yeah. Yeah. I think we'll be able to come out of that hopefully. Like,

291
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,140
yeah, it's gone, right. I think it's like a soul thing as well. Like you're literally

292
00:20:23,140 --> 00:20:30,280
each well i mean it's kind of true nostril as well maybe you craft a message to talk to bitcoiners

293
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:37,160
or something but like nostril has made me rethink all my actions on social media yeah like you are

294
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,860
just you're well first of all you're renting an identity in each of these platforms and you're

295
00:20:40,860 --> 00:20:55,512
this like faux version of yourself that just a cog in their machine to like suck profit off of everybody and then you feeding it by like adapting your messaging and your videos or your content to just serve an algorithm because you are serving the algorithm

296
00:20:55,612 --> 00:21:01,632
You're not serving your audience. You're just making these videos or whatever your content is

297
00:21:01,632 --> 00:21:05,952
just to like hit the algorithm in a specific way. And that's completely changed the way we

298
00:21:05,952 --> 00:21:10,812
communicate today. And I'm not sure that it's just, it's just obviously like an evolution in

299
00:21:10,812 --> 00:21:16,212
the way we communicate. But the fact that like these few corporations and the algorithms that

300
00:21:16,212 --> 00:21:20,052
are black boxes that the companies probably don't even understand completely what's going on, like

301
00:21:20,052 --> 00:21:25,132
have that much power to whether to get a message out there or to rabbit hole someone, or

302
00:21:25,132 --> 00:21:29,732
it's a little bit spooky and strange. And this is like part of the opportunity

303
00:21:29,732 --> 00:21:35,612
that we have with Nostros, like algorithm choice, different algorithms for different apps.

304
00:21:35,612 --> 00:21:44,472
um yeah it's like such a potential to heal the way we communicate using our phones which is this

305
00:21:44,472 --> 00:21:50,452
brand new medium of communication that we're just getting used to as humanity but it's beautiful

306
00:21:50,452 --> 00:21:55,832
it's gotten me here it's kept me here it's connected us like it's really cool i got some

307
00:21:55,832 --> 00:22:00,852
friends you know that just really just so they hate tech and don't want to touch tech like i

308
00:22:00,852 --> 00:22:05,832
live in the jungle there's a bunch of hippies out here but there's definitely some sort of a fine

309
00:22:05,832 --> 00:22:10,692
balance that i think we can find and that's just tech like created for humanity that's like

310
00:22:10,692 --> 00:22:15,052
um like i used to work for daylight computer and that's a computer that

311
00:22:15,052 --> 00:22:22,312
is built for humans instead of us continually adapting to our tech and i think we can kind of

312
00:22:22,312 --> 00:22:27,532
take those same similar principles of like and make a better digital experience as well

313
00:22:27,532 --> 00:22:49,932
Yeah, I think the goal of technology should be when you're a young child, they tell you that you should be seen and not heard. And I think the goal of technology should be both to not be seen and not be heard. You know, I want to just be able to speak my thoughts and have them down. I don't want to be able to, I don't want to have to do this.

314
00:22:49,932 --> 00:22:59,452
I remember listening to a Huberman podcast one time and he was talking about the what happens in the brain when you write because it is truly a form of art.

315
00:22:59,652 --> 00:23:04,392
But what happens in your brain when you tap is nothing.

316
00:23:04,612 --> 00:23:07,932
It's just basically white noise, right?

317
00:23:08,552 --> 00:23:09,812
I've never switched to that one.

318
00:23:10,132 --> 00:23:10,392
Yeah.

319
00:23:11,392 --> 00:23:11,872
Exactly.

320
00:23:12,132 --> 00:23:12,352
Yeah.

321
00:23:12,352 --> 00:23:18,812
And it makes you think and you reconnect with the thing that makes your soul breathe, I guess.

322
00:23:19,932 --> 00:23:27,132
really beautiful. I want to ask about Primal. So I use Primal and I'm probably,

323
00:23:27,972 --> 00:23:34,072
I think one of the things that makes it easier for me to walk through life now is to think that

324
00:23:34,072 --> 00:23:38,052
I'm not special. I think I'm probably pretty normal. I'm probably about like everybody else.

325
00:23:38,252 --> 00:23:46,512
So I got a Noster account in 2023 and I didn't really use it at all until

326
00:23:46,512 --> 00:23:53,772
when I was at the network school, um, these last seven months in Malaysia, I would host.

327
00:23:54,252 --> 00:24:01,192
Yeah. Yeah. Dude. Yeah. I worked for Balaji. Um, so, uh, um, but I would host these Thursday

328
00:24:01,192 --> 00:24:05,952
night music concerts and one of the guys there, there was two guys there that were

329
00:24:05,952 --> 00:24:11,192
Noster bad boys, uh, Calvadev and I forgot the other guy's name. He's a German.

330
00:24:11,192 --> 00:24:12,692
What is it?

331
00:24:12,892 --> 00:24:13,372
Arjun?

332
00:24:13,732 --> 00:24:15,232
No, uh, it's a German dude.

333
00:24:15,512 --> 00:24:15,852
Yeah.

334
00:24:15,852 --> 00:24:16,092
Yeah.

335
00:24:16,512 --> 00:24:17,132
I forget.

336
00:24:18,412 --> 00:24:20,612
Man, I just met him because he's at the network school.

337
00:24:20,772 --> 00:24:21,252
Sweet dude.

338
00:24:21,512 --> 00:24:22,132
Sweet dude.

339
00:24:22,312 --> 00:24:22,492
Yeah.

340
00:24:22,932 --> 00:24:29,792
But anyway, so they they were like, hey, you know, we want to zap you sats for playing this show.

341
00:24:30,052 --> 00:24:31,952
So they showed me Nostrudel Ninja.

342
00:24:33,012 --> 00:24:35,272
So, you know, I just I'm playing up there.

343
00:24:35,332 --> 00:24:36,432
I've got a TV to the side.

344
00:24:36,492 --> 00:24:40,452
It's got a QR code and it links directly to a note.

345
00:24:40,952 --> 00:24:46,372
So I basically it's like I make a it's the equivalent is I make a post on Twitter.

346
00:24:46,512 --> 00:24:52,592
And then I show that post to people and they can just directly send me Bitcoin, which is really, really cool.

347
00:24:52,972 --> 00:24:57,492
But I'm currently using Primal and I'm using Fountain.

348
00:24:57,652 --> 00:25:00,372
I'm a musician, so I post my music on Fountain.

349
00:25:00,632 --> 00:25:02,312
I put the podcast on Fountain.

350
00:25:02,752 --> 00:25:05,872
Trying to grow, I've got like 60 some followers.

351
00:25:06,592 --> 00:25:13,892
And I wanted you to be able to have the opportunity to kind of sell the high points of what Primal does really well.

352
00:25:13,892 --> 00:25:17,952
and also what Primal is trying to do better.

353
00:25:18,592 --> 00:25:21,352
I would tell you like my experience is that

354
00:25:21,352 --> 00:25:24,152
it's a pretty good emulator of X.

355
00:25:24,392 --> 00:25:25,392
It's not bad.

356
00:25:25,492 --> 00:25:26,412
It's a little slower,

357
00:25:26,592 --> 00:25:28,292
but I think that's just because there's not

358
00:25:28,292 --> 00:25:31,852
50 million relays out in the world yet.

359
00:25:32,412 --> 00:25:33,912
I would assume that's why.

360
00:25:34,532 --> 00:25:36,432
But other than that, yeah,

361
00:25:36,432 --> 00:25:38,352
can you kind of give me an idea of like,

362
00:25:38,452 --> 00:25:39,372
where is Primal?

363
00:25:39,592 --> 00:25:40,692
What is Primal doing?

364
00:25:40,692 --> 00:25:49,372
and um yeah what can we expect from primal in the future i can't tell you oh sweet okay but it's

365
00:25:49,372 --> 00:25:55,832
gonna make sense and i'm so freaking excited yeah yeah it's gonna it's gonna be great but let me let

366
00:25:55,832 --> 00:26:00,552
me tell you a little bit about primal's dna if you can't already tell we're a bunch of bitcoiners

367
00:26:00,552 --> 00:26:12,492
yeah yeah um i think we have this roundabout way to onboard millions to pick and i'm i'm not kidding

368
00:26:12,492 --> 00:26:18,672
without them even like feeling it you know it's just because right now you think of the onboarding

369
00:26:18,672 --> 00:26:21,772
way to bitcoin and you got to listen to bazillion podcasts and then you go to an exchange and you

370
00:26:21,772 --> 00:26:26,712
give all your life away and then you then you maybe buy some bitcoin it just sits there and

371
00:26:26,712 --> 00:26:32,032
have no use for it and then you hate the government with a deep passion you get there around our

372
00:26:32,032 --> 00:26:37,092
three thousand but yeah full full full anarchy hits about the third weekend

373
00:26:37,092 --> 00:26:45,472
um but anyways this whole experience of people coming on to primal giving a nice welcome post

374
00:26:45,472 --> 00:26:52,632
and then them receiving bitcoin is like this new interesting way to onboard people and just have

375
00:26:52,632 --> 00:26:57,172
them touch it because bitcoin's actually alive it's this native internet money that yeah travels

376
00:26:57,172 --> 00:27:03,292
smoothly over the internet and it's it's a cool way to like get people playing with it in the

377
00:27:03,292 --> 00:27:10,172
beginning um but besides that you said like what are the big plans for primal i can't really talk

378
00:27:10,172 --> 00:27:18,192
about that but i think uh i mean we're going for it like if you can't tell we're kind of you know

379
00:27:18,192 --> 00:27:20,432
just trotting along right now,

380
00:27:20,492 --> 00:27:20,972
like the whole,

381
00:27:21,372 --> 00:27:22,492
up until this point,

382
00:27:22,632 --> 00:27:23,052
it's like,

383
00:27:23,352 --> 00:27:23,612
yeah,

384
00:27:23,752 --> 00:27:25,732
we've attracted power users to Noser

385
00:27:25,732 --> 00:27:27,292
that kind of get the principles and everything.

386
00:27:27,292 --> 00:27:29,052
And people might come over and suffer

387
00:27:29,052 --> 00:27:30,612
from sometimes worse UX,

388
00:27:30,872 --> 00:27:33,372
but we do think that we can,

389
00:27:33,372 --> 00:27:33,812
um,

390
00:27:34,112 --> 00:27:37,692
match the UX of like the big players.

391
00:27:37,692 --> 00:27:39,232
And we're going to keep building towards that

392
00:27:39,232 --> 00:27:42,512
and see what happens.

393
00:27:43,372 --> 00:27:44,092
What are the limit?

394
00:27:44,132 --> 00:27:45,972
What are the limitations on the UX?

395
00:27:46,072 --> 00:27:46,592
Is it just,

396
00:27:46,692 --> 00:27:47,552
is it relays?

397
00:27:47,552 --> 00:27:54,412
so no it's so primal works differently so primal um re does what's called like caching and indexing

398
00:27:54,412 --> 00:27:59,312
the posts so we read from a caching server so it's like we download everything so it's almost

399
00:27:59,312 --> 00:28:04,312
like it almost works like a regular social media app but we actually pull all the info from the

400
00:28:04,312 --> 00:28:11,552
relays so it's like a smoother way to use nostril and it's all open source anybody could do this as

401
00:28:11,552 --> 00:28:18,552
well that's why it tends to be a little bit quicker than other apps now yes with long-form

402
00:28:18,552 --> 00:28:23,812
videos and videos can get a little difficult right now in our early stages and like heavier videos

403
00:28:23,812 --> 00:28:28,552
don't upload well and don't play very well so there's some limitations there and growing pains

404
00:28:28,552 --> 00:28:34,992
that we'll have to go through but um we'll see over time we'll be able to fix those nice and grant

405
00:28:34,992 --> 00:28:38,812
yeah no i had a question so you were talking earlier and i really appreciate this kind of

406
00:28:38,812 --> 00:28:41,992
how we make our tools and then our tools remake us,

407
00:28:42,072 --> 00:28:44,792
kind of the feeling that we get when we're on social media

408
00:28:44,792 --> 00:28:49,872
and how Nostrum Primal has been a liberating feeling for you

409
00:28:49,872 --> 00:28:52,432
and kind of has changed the way that you experience social media,

410
00:28:52,532 --> 00:28:55,212
maybe that you interact with the world as well.

411
00:28:55,372 --> 00:28:58,492
And I think about a couple of things on Twitter X

412
00:28:58,492 --> 00:29:02,072
that really kind of make the existential malaise set in,

413
00:29:02,152 --> 00:29:03,452
make me feel bad.

414
00:29:03,892 --> 00:29:07,412
You mentioned the algorithmic, kind of being hijacked by algorithms.

415
00:29:07,412 --> 00:29:10,072
And that's one thing that Noster can take care of.

416
00:29:10,372 --> 00:29:19,492
What about just the slop content, the AI generated, you know, people just throwing stuff out there that is bad.

417
00:29:19,492 --> 00:29:32,652
And then also that and kind of the propaganda element of sock puppet accounts and not knowing what, you know, if some account is just a vector for a state apparatus trying to mold opinion.

418
00:29:32,652 --> 00:29:34,612
does Noster slash

419
00:29:34,612 --> 00:29:37,312
Prime will have some sort of

420
00:29:37,312 --> 00:29:38,972
immunity to those things,

421
00:29:39,092 --> 00:29:40,052
slop and propaganda.

422
00:29:40,812 --> 00:29:42,532
So the slop, that's interesting.

423
00:29:42,692 --> 00:29:45,012
So Rabble, when he's

424
00:29:45,012 --> 00:29:46,432
reintroducing Divine,

425
00:29:47,272 --> 00:29:48,412
he's going to have some sort of

426
00:29:48,412 --> 00:29:50,652
AI filter. We'll see if it works.

427
00:29:51,152 --> 00:29:52,852
Kind of like a proof of human thing.

428
00:29:52,972 --> 00:29:54,432
This is shot from a real iPhone.

429
00:29:55,092 --> 00:29:55,792
Stuff like that.

430
00:29:56,852 --> 00:29:58,832
And then the second piece, I think

431
00:29:58,832 --> 00:30:00,792
what we're getting into is this whole

432
00:30:00,792 --> 00:30:02,592
concept of a web of trust.

433
00:30:02,652 --> 00:30:08,732
which is like the people that you follow and you can have these web of trust filters.

434
00:30:08,732 --> 00:30:12,972
So like if you maybe won't see content from people that, you know, you're not,

435
00:30:13,092 --> 00:30:18,932
that aren't connected to you somehow. Um, so that's one way to filter bots. Like if you,

436
00:30:19,112 --> 00:30:24,372
if nobody's following this person that, um, is just shouting into the void or, you know,

437
00:30:24,372 --> 00:30:30,532
trying to be like a state actor, whatever you're saying, like, but it's, it's, since it's a

438
00:30:30,532 --> 00:30:35,872
permissions this network we're going to definitely be hit by more bots as we go in over time and i

439
00:30:35,872 --> 00:30:38,652
don't want to say we have the perfect solution right now it's we're going to grow but we've

440
00:30:38,652 --> 00:30:44,192
been like attacked before and then we we grow we figure it out what happened and we we adapt um

441
00:30:44,192 --> 00:30:48,572
yeah it strikes me that there's maybe not a perfect solution because it's going to be trade-offs it's

442
00:30:48,572 --> 00:30:53,852
going to be you know how easy is is it for a new person to get into a network so they are not

443
00:30:53,852 --> 00:30:58,692
screaming into the void while simultaneously keeping out the bots and malicious actors so

444
00:30:58,692 --> 00:31:02,572
yeah, I don't, maybe, I don't know how you do that. I had another, well, yeah, it's going to

445
00:31:02,572 --> 00:31:07,452
be complicated, but it's possible with this whole web of trust idea. Um, kind of like a vouching

446
00:31:07,452 --> 00:31:11,352
system, right? Like the web of trust. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of how we prove that we're human

447
00:31:11,352 --> 00:31:16,612
too. Oh, Paul verified that guy. Oh, they went to a Nostra Rica. That's probably a real human.

448
00:31:16,712 --> 00:31:20,992
That end pub is probably run by a real human. So that's probably what's going to end up happening.

449
00:31:21,032 --> 00:31:25,452
I mean, that gets a little bit philosophical or I don't know, those, those discussions are

450
00:31:25,452 --> 00:31:32,332
fun to have and maybe for those you know gg and pablo yeah yeah uh not pablo but gg yeah gg yeah

451
00:31:32,332 --> 00:31:37,912
i mean he has this idea of like proof of work plus web of trust fixes 95 99 of the internet so

452
00:31:37,912 --> 00:31:42,432
the proof of work is like maybe you somehow pay lightning or like you can see how many times they

453
00:31:42,432 --> 00:31:46,072
zapped it's like oh that's a real human too maybe you can have filters like that like a bot wouldn't

454
00:31:46,072 --> 00:31:53,652
be zapping maybe um but i had another thought oh yeah part of this ai slot thing is it's so hard

455
00:31:53,652 --> 00:31:54,592
to take your eyes off.

456
00:31:55,972 --> 00:31:57,352
Yeah, it's pretty badass

457
00:31:57,352 --> 00:31:58,532
when you see a bear

458
00:31:58,532 --> 00:31:59,632
walking through the woods,

459
00:31:59,832 --> 00:32:01,812
you know, like rapping to Eminem,

460
00:32:02,052 --> 00:32:02,732
wearing a bikini.

461
00:32:03,012 --> 00:32:03,632
It's pretty sweet,

462
00:32:03,752 --> 00:32:04,652
to be completely honest.

463
00:32:05,192 --> 00:32:05,372
Yeah.

464
00:32:05,772 --> 00:32:07,712
Now, part of that's like

465
00:32:07,712 --> 00:32:09,052
hijacking you a little bit.

466
00:32:10,152 --> 00:32:11,992
But also, there's this,

467
00:32:12,172 --> 00:32:13,732
you wouldn't really repost it,

468
00:32:13,912 --> 00:32:15,112
but maybe the algos see

469
00:32:15,112 --> 00:32:15,672
that you're spending

470
00:32:15,672 --> 00:32:16,452
a lot of time there

471
00:32:16,452 --> 00:32:19,032
and we'll shove that to you.

472
00:32:19,392 --> 00:32:20,312
Because that's definitely

473
00:32:20,312 --> 00:32:20,912
one of the metrics,

474
00:32:21,032 --> 00:32:21,592
like how much time

475
00:32:21,592 --> 00:32:22,632
was spent there, right?

476
00:32:23,212 --> 00:32:23,232
Yeah.

477
00:32:23,652 --> 00:32:33,012
And I'll give you a little idea of what Primal wants to do is we want to monetize your time saved instead of monetize your time spent like all the other platforms do.

478
00:32:33,292 --> 00:32:33,372
Nice.

479
00:32:33,812 --> 00:32:37,372
So, I mean, look at me, man.

480
00:32:37,392 --> 00:32:38,772
I just want to go touch grass and surf.

481
00:32:38,972 --> 00:32:40,452
Like, that's part of our DNA as well.

482
00:32:40,672 --> 00:32:43,912
Like, we obviously see how powerful the tool of social media is.

483
00:32:45,532 --> 00:32:53,372
To kind of go a little further on touch grass and surf, you're in Bitcoin jungle and you've made, I've heard you talk about this.

484
00:32:53,372 --> 00:33:08,092
You're a SoCal boy. You came from San Diego, made the drive all the way across. Video kind of diaryed your driveway to Costa Rica. And you've been living there, is it three, four years now?

485
00:33:08,092 --> 00:33:16,632
in the Bitcoin journal. And kind of, so me used to be a banker musician, but I was just in the

486
00:33:16,632 --> 00:33:22,152
Midwest in like a four or five state area. And then when I found Bitcoin, quit the job, started

487
00:33:22,152 --> 00:33:27,232
traveling the world, lived in Colombia, Morocco. I was at the network school, kind of all over.

488
00:33:27,432 --> 00:33:33,452
And so I'm really interested in finding these network school type locations, which are,

489
00:33:33,452 --> 00:33:39,532
you know, values aligned people that are living together in a safe or not safe, but well,

490
00:33:39,612 --> 00:33:45,732
safe if you want, but in a healthy and harmonious way. Can you kind of, I mean, there's a lot of

491
00:33:45,732 --> 00:33:49,392
people that don't really know what the Bitcoin jungle is. Can you just give an overview of that

492
00:33:49,392 --> 00:33:54,892
and kind of tell us what it's like to be there? Yeah, man. I mean, this is why, cause I, you know,

493
00:33:54,892 --> 00:33:57,992
my eyes kind of lit up when you said you were at the network school. I love this idea.

494
00:33:57,992 --> 00:34:04,652
yeah dude and it's wild yeah um i've we have a movie about bitcoin jungle coming out like i think

495
00:34:04,652 --> 00:34:09,952
it's actually done and we're working on a trailer and it's like how do we release a movie i have no

496
00:34:09,952 --> 00:34:14,552
idea but we're just gonna put it out there and see what happens because it's like legit i can't wait

497
00:34:14,552 --> 00:34:20,012
so that'll tell the whole story but yeah man i live 100 off bitcoin i just went to the market

498
00:34:20,012 --> 00:34:27,312
and bought everything i need raw milk meat fruit smoothies a cookie all in bitcoin and

499
00:34:27,312 --> 00:34:32,052
it's happening oh my god i actually got a whiff of the or i gotta gotta look at our

500
00:34:32,052 --> 00:34:38,692
raw milks wall guys wallet today guys stacking it's amazing but anyway it's like

501
00:34:38,692 --> 00:34:45,972
the whole network school network state book and everything and i went to the conference in

502
00:34:45,972 --> 00:34:52,592
singapore a couple years ago and i'm like i swear what we have going on down here is like

503
00:34:52,592 --> 00:34:55,192
the most organic version of that in the world.

504
00:34:55,372 --> 00:34:55,572
It is.

505
00:34:55,772 --> 00:34:56,192
It is.

506
00:34:56,272 --> 00:34:58,472
This was my 10.30 p.m. thought last night.

507
00:34:58,692 --> 00:34:59,132
Yeah.

508
00:34:59,292 --> 00:35:00,012
It is.

509
00:35:00,112 --> 00:35:02,832
Yeah, because it's the organic growth.

510
00:35:03,312 --> 00:35:05,832
Like the network school is this intentional attempt,

511
00:35:06,252 --> 00:35:07,952
but Bitcoin jungle is organic growth.

512
00:35:08,412 --> 00:35:08,892
It's it.

513
00:35:09,272 --> 00:35:12,672
And now we got, it's slow because it is organic,

514
00:35:12,832 --> 00:35:13,632
super decentralized.

515
00:35:13,912 --> 00:35:14,712
We don't have any funding.

516
00:35:14,712 --> 00:35:17,452
It's just like kind of the boys putting together stuff.

517
00:35:18,332 --> 00:35:20,412
Like we got a little co-working house now.

518
00:35:20,652 --> 00:35:22,492
And it's like, yeah, everybody in there is on Noster.

519
00:35:22,592 --> 00:35:26,972
and you kind of like we have it pretty close like we don't really invite many people but

520
00:35:26,972 --> 00:35:33,792
you know it's kind of just friends of friends web of trust um and yeah pretty soon

521
00:35:33,792 --> 00:35:41,252
solidino is going to be announcing that um he's bought place and we're going to get people in

522
00:35:41,252 --> 00:35:44,812
with the health stuff so we're gonna have that side and the bitcoiners down here and i'm like

523
00:35:44,812 --> 00:35:51,352
oh my god and i'm the link and i'm like dude this is actually it because balaji always talks about

524
00:35:51,352 --> 00:35:56,852
brian johnson being like this ideological leader and he's the opposite of salad which i think is

525
00:35:56,852 --> 00:36:02,112
hilarious because he's like vegetarian he's like super white doesn't go in the sun um but yeah has

526
00:36:02,112 --> 00:36:09,152
like this ideology about health and is a community leader and then being able to source people from

527
00:36:09,152 --> 00:36:16,732
the internet to a specific place and that's all slowly happening here people are mostly just kind

528
00:36:16,732 --> 00:36:20,692
of passing through and visiting but um there's definitely a lot of bitcoins that live here and

529
00:36:20,692 --> 00:36:25,772
ones that i don't even know just like yesterday i went out to eat at dinner and i was like

530
00:36:25,772 --> 00:36:29,332
somebody else is paying bitcoin she was like yeah i was like i didn't see anybody i knew

531
00:36:29,332 --> 00:36:34,232
i feel like i know everybody but you know so it's like kind of happening organically down here and

532
00:36:34,232 --> 00:36:41,312
um it's cool it's like i have no idea what's going to happen but i think humans are going to

533
00:36:41,312 --> 00:36:48,292
keep on moving to places that are healthy and easy to live a healthy life and there's something

534
00:36:48,292 --> 00:36:53,812
special about Costa Rica because well, there's like, there's no army. The fruit is so abundant.

535
00:36:55,012 --> 00:37:00,932
The food and just, it's a cool place to be in the world. And I think people will keep moving here.

536
00:37:01,952 --> 00:37:06,432
And hopefully the right people will too. Like everybody that comes here seems to just want to

537
00:37:06,432 --> 00:37:11,372
give back to the land and keep it preserved and live in harmony with nature and the locals and

538
00:37:11,372 --> 00:37:16,932
everything. So it's really beautiful to see. And it's really cool for me to live my thesis about

539
00:37:16,932 --> 00:37:22,412
Bitcoin because, you know, if you have an opinion and don't live by that opinion, I feel like you're

540
00:37:22,412 --> 00:37:27,472
a fraud, especially when you're able to spend Bitcoin everywhere. Like, so I like to, you know,

541
00:37:27,552 --> 00:37:37,172
completely do the thing. Um, and yeah, it's like a little bright star that just kind of formed

542
00:37:37,172 --> 00:37:43,212
organically kind of showing the world what can, what can be done. How many people are there like

543
00:37:43,212 --> 00:37:50,012
round about i mean i think the network school is around like 160 now i think probably the most is

544
00:37:50,012 --> 00:37:55,512
probably 180 kind of goes up and down every month like you said like you there's a lot of in and out

545
00:37:55,512 --> 00:38:01,752
yeah but like is it is that fairly comparable um to say the size of the community down there

546
00:38:01,752 --> 00:38:07,392
in costa rica i mean it's kind of spread out too like it's mostly this area where i'm at

547
00:38:07,392 --> 00:38:12,692
um yeah i don't want to overcook the numbers we could say around 100 probably that are like

548
00:38:12,692 --> 00:38:20,452
you know, pretty ideologically aligned and, you know, here around, maybe some are quieter than

549
00:38:20,452 --> 00:38:28,572
others. I'm kind of loud. You are, you are a, uh, you're a neat guy, man. You're a neat guy. I,

550
00:38:28,572 --> 00:38:33,672
I really, I really do enjoy, um, hearing you talk and the, the energy that you bring.

551
00:38:33,852 --> 00:38:38,772
You were a baseball dude before you were a surfer. I do like, I do like your swing. Is that a,

552
00:38:38,772 --> 00:38:39,792
Is that a Griffey swing?

553
00:38:40,852 --> 00:38:42,492
Is that a Soto swing or what?

554
00:38:42,772 --> 00:38:46,812
No, I started switch hitting as a junior in college.

555
00:38:47,052 --> 00:38:48,752
I rode the bench for two years.

556
00:38:48,832 --> 00:38:50,392
I was like, I'm just going to switch hit, man.

557
00:38:50,412 --> 00:38:51,472
I've wanted to hit left in my whole life.

558
00:38:51,672 --> 00:38:52,012
No way.

559
00:38:52,012 --> 00:38:53,032
I actually started hitting, yeah.

560
00:38:53,932 --> 00:38:55,692
I started switch hitting when I was seven.

561
00:38:56,272 --> 00:38:56,472
Really?

562
00:38:57,072 --> 00:38:58,692
Yeah, I wanted to be like George Brett.

563
00:38:58,692 --> 00:39:01,192
And I was like, oh, he bats left-handed.

564
00:39:01,632 --> 00:39:02,452
So you played.

565
00:39:02,552 --> 00:39:03,132
Where did you play at?

566
00:39:03,532 --> 00:39:06,012
I went to a small school called Vanguard in Southern California

567
00:39:06,012 --> 00:39:08,412
and ended up playing all four years.

568
00:39:08,772 --> 00:39:15,072
yeah i love baseball so do i yeah that's uh that's bitcoin at 10 million is we're freaking

569
00:39:15,072 --> 00:39:19,012
making baseball fields down here and there's a bunch of nicaraguans down here too and they love

570
00:39:19,012 --> 00:39:24,012
baseball yeah they do yeah we'll fire them up and we'll get some teams going and kids will be able

571
00:39:24,012 --> 00:39:29,372
to play baseball that'd be the dream so i mean this idea of the networks that i talked to lucas

572
00:39:29,372 --> 00:39:35,932
about this quite a bit um it i see why it appeals to people i see why going somewhere to form an

573
00:39:35,932 --> 00:39:40,872
autonomous community with similarly aligned people where you can just start anew is a very

574
00:39:40,872 --> 00:39:48,812
powerful driving motivation. But, you know, kind of the opposite or parallel idea is the idea of

575
00:39:48,812 --> 00:39:55,332
roots, right? That you have somewhere and that is your place kind of unchosen just because it's the

576
00:39:55,332 --> 00:40:00,452
place where you started. Do you still feel that pull from in Southern California? And do you think

577
00:40:00,452 --> 00:40:05,392
is it possible to have similar to what you're doing in Bitcoin jungle, something there?

578
00:40:05,392 --> 00:40:09,492
or is the social context, the political context, just not viable for that?

579
00:40:11,112 --> 00:40:13,852
That's a great question. And did you call roots roots?

580
00:40:14,272 --> 00:40:17,192
Oh, no. My roots are showing. My roots are showing.

581
00:40:17,652 --> 00:40:19,292
Is that a religious thing?

582
00:40:19,532 --> 00:40:23,172
I suppose, man. It's an ignorant hick thing here. That's how we talk.

583
00:40:23,512 --> 00:40:24,812
I haven't heard that.

584
00:40:25,432 --> 00:40:27,332
The creek is the crick.

585
00:40:27,512 --> 00:40:28,992
The creek is the crick. Yeah, yeah.

586
00:40:29,612 --> 00:40:30,092
Nice.

587
00:40:30,092 --> 00:40:40,052
anyways yes so it's that's a tricky question i just had my first baby and we've had so lara's

588
00:40:40,052 --> 00:40:45,592
grandparents lara's parents she's from italy so she's from italy i'm from california we live in

589
00:40:45,592 --> 00:40:51,712
costa riga so it's kind of a mess but like it's a beautiful mess i like it um we just had her

590
00:40:51,712 --> 00:40:56,512
parents around and my parents are coming in on the first of february and we've been back home too

591
00:40:56,512 --> 00:41:02,952
and it's like oh it's so right we're really blessed to have a great family and get along with

592
00:41:02,952 --> 00:41:09,772
our in-laws and our parents but yeah raising just having grandma around to just sit with baby all

593
00:41:09,772 --> 00:41:15,992
day while i do my metaverse thing for a little bit or go surf um it's like this is so right you know

594
00:41:15,992 --> 00:41:22,292
having this help around they're cooking and everything for us um so like leaving the family

595
00:41:22,292 --> 00:41:26,172
Yeah, it's tough.

596
00:41:26,472 --> 00:41:30,932
I don't know if, I mean, you just, you play it out.

597
00:41:31,032 --> 00:41:44,964
It like Balaji talks about this too like governments and cities should be yeah begging for people to come Begging for you to stay Yeah Yeah It like I should tell you You want to attract people Right Yeah exactly Competing for you

598
00:41:46,064 --> 00:41:48,844
And it seems like the opposite of that happens in California.

599
00:41:49,024 --> 00:41:49,264
Right.

600
00:41:49,924 --> 00:41:50,944
Guys, get out of here.

601
00:41:51,004 --> 00:41:52,564
You got too much money or something?

602
00:41:52,684 --> 00:41:53,264
Get out of here.

603
00:41:53,383 --> 00:41:53,624
Mm-hmm.

604
00:41:54,544 --> 00:41:54,944
Stupid.

605
00:41:55,524 --> 00:41:59,924
But yeah, that's a tough question, the whole roots and everything.

606
00:42:00,424 --> 00:42:02,464
Like, I don't know.

607
00:42:02,464 --> 00:42:08,604
we're definitely evolving into another species um like biology talks about we went from hunter

608
00:42:08,604 --> 00:42:14,344
gatherers to dig to farmer warriors and now we're these um digital nomads which are kind of like

609
00:42:14,344 --> 00:42:20,244
another version of hunter gatherers in my opinion um so my dream would be to kind of visit these

610
00:42:20,244 --> 00:42:24,984
different pockets around the world with my family and go see other families and other waves for me

611
00:42:24,984 --> 00:42:30,844
but um in the world who are kind of building these little hubs that are going to be ideologically

612
00:42:30,844 --> 00:42:37,664
aligned, you know, have my food that I want to eat and have the lifestyle I want to live

613
00:42:37,664 --> 00:42:41,684
around the world. So I feel like that's kind of naturally happening slowly.

614
00:42:42,804 --> 00:42:47,764
And it seems like a natural American archetype to the pioneer. Our nation was defined for a while

615
00:42:47,764 --> 00:42:53,144
that we didn't have, we had an expanding border in the interior. You could always go west to people

616
00:42:53,144 --> 00:42:58,104
who are full of entrepreneurial spirit or the desire to own something could always move.

617
00:42:58,104 --> 00:43:03,863
and then that kind of you know that ended in the 1800s at some point and we are you know our border

618
00:43:03,863 --> 00:43:08,504
maybe turned inward or something like that but that the pioneer spirit it lives on and people

619
00:43:08,504 --> 00:43:13,684
like you so it is just an it's a very american thing it's a very um yeah it's a very natural

620
00:43:13,684 --> 00:43:18,724
and laudable thing i think too yeah you know i'm starting to kind of realize like how much america

621
00:43:18,724 --> 00:43:24,044
has programmed me to be such a big corner you guys feel that too sometimes yeah yeah for sure

622
00:43:24,044 --> 00:43:25,144
I mean, look at your truck in the back.

623
00:43:25,863 --> 00:43:26,164
Yeah, dude.

624
00:43:26,924 --> 00:43:28,064
That's not AI, is it?

625
00:43:28,344 --> 00:43:28,704
No.

626
00:43:28,904 --> 00:43:29,244
Oh, no.

627
00:43:29,944 --> 00:43:31,844
Yeah, it is cold.

628
00:43:32,544 --> 00:43:36,424
And the internet on my folks' farm is horrific.

629
00:43:36,424 --> 00:43:38,844
So I'm sitting in my buddy Rex's garage.

630
00:43:39,784 --> 00:43:41,164
And yeah, it's this place.

631
00:43:41,324 --> 00:43:45,804
But like Balji talks about, like, internet values are American values.

632
00:43:46,084 --> 00:43:48,704
They're the ones that we founded America on.

633
00:43:48,704 --> 00:43:54,504
you know like this american idea of like freedom of speech and the freedom to transact and everything

634
00:43:54,504 --> 00:44:02,784
like the the internet values of bitcoin and nostr are very american at heart yeah and this is where

635
00:44:02,784 --> 00:44:09,684
i fall off and i'm kind of curious lucas like since you're out there like i don't understand

636
00:44:09,684 --> 00:44:16,824
web3 people everybody's a future bitcoiner yeah i just don't understand like what we have

637
00:44:16,824 --> 00:44:26,744
With Noster and Zaps, it's like an identity in money, and it's actually usable as money, and being accepted all the places around the world.

638
00:44:26,744 --> 00:44:29,924
I kind of don't understand these other systems.

639
00:44:30,604 --> 00:44:32,704
And I can't steel man them yet, though.

640
00:44:33,164 --> 00:44:33,304
Yeah.

641
00:44:34,004 --> 00:44:36,544
Can you help me into there?

642
00:44:36,664 --> 00:44:39,004
I was thinking about going over there, but I don't know.

643
00:44:39,084 --> 00:44:41,124
I heard you can't even swim in the water over there.

644
00:44:41,804 --> 00:44:43,744
You don't want to swim in the water, that's for sure.

645
00:44:43,744 --> 00:44:58,424
Yeah, the straight of Joe horror between Forest City, which is the man-made, as I describe it, it's a fake island with a ghost city and a real billionaire and 150 autistic tech nerds from 120 different countries.

646
00:44:59,644 --> 00:45:00,883
Yeah, it's quite the deal.

647
00:45:01,044 --> 00:45:03,984
But no, you don't want to, they've got saltwater crocodiles too.

648
00:45:05,324 --> 00:45:06,404
So, yeah, they've got the big ones.

649
00:45:06,584 --> 00:45:07,144
I put some of those down here.

650
00:45:07,604 --> 00:45:07,883
Really?

651
00:45:08,304 --> 00:45:08,704
Oh, cool.

652
00:45:09,004 --> 00:45:09,144
Okay.

653
00:45:09,144 --> 00:45:20,684
Yeah. But so when you ask about that, I mean, I wondered about that, too, because one of the things that I did was I thought I would go there and be surrounded by Bitcoiners and I was not.

654
00:45:22,304 --> 00:45:32,604
And so one of the things I ended up doing was I taught a lecture series called Money, Inflation and Bitcoin in order to try and hopefully inoculate against some of that.

655
00:45:32,604 --> 00:45:41,804
But I think the Web3 people, I just think that's a symptom of bad money.

656
00:45:42,004 --> 00:45:51,784
I think the U.S. dollar failing and any fiat currency failing, I think that's what encourages people to look for short-term gains.

657
00:45:52,004 --> 00:45:56,224
That's why Robinhood is just effectively a betting app now.

658
00:45:56,344 --> 00:45:58,224
That's why sports betting has exploded.

659
00:45:58,224 --> 00:46:17,224
Yeah. And so, you know, it's just an opportunity for all these people who are rightfully feeling but don't know how to describe the feeling that they have, which is that my future has been taken from me without my vote.

660
00:46:17,224 --> 00:46:24,444
out my vote. You know, like when when a government unilaterally prints trillions of dollars stealing

661
00:46:24,444 --> 00:46:29,924
money from the future, from the productive capacity of their citizens, that's their future.

662
00:46:30,044 --> 00:46:35,444
That's the future of their citizens that they're stealing. And so when you go over there and you

663
00:46:35,444 --> 00:46:44,144
see those, you know, neck bearded, glazed eyes, ramped up on Celsius and vodka type,

664
00:46:44,144 --> 00:46:47,764
let's send Zek to the moon type of thing.

665
00:46:48,464 --> 00:46:50,564
I think that's just a symptom of that.

666
00:46:50,724 --> 00:46:54,424
And I used to fight against it

667
00:46:54,424 --> 00:46:58,883
and I used to really be very kind of like adamant

668
00:46:58,883 --> 00:47:01,204
about like you're going down the wrong path.

669
00:47:01,784 --> 00:47:05,044
But now, like I said, my 3.30 a.m. thought

670
00:47:05,044 --> 00:47:07,844
was just that there's literally two types of people

671
00:47:07,844 --> 00:47:08,264
in the world.

672
00:47:08,424 --> 00:47:10,524
There's Bitcoiners and there's future Bitcoiners.

673
00:47:11,164 --> 00:47:13,764
And I want to have a lot of empathy for those people

674
00:47:13,764 --> 00:47:20,144
that are future Bitcoiners because I understand the desperation that they are living in trying to

675
00:47:20,144 --> 00:47:29,304
get their Solana bags pumped, trying to, you know, whatever, yield farming, aura farming,

676
00:47:29,504 --> 00:47:35,084
hype farming, whatever, you know, whatever it all comes down to. And I truly do think that people

677
00:47:35,084 --> 00:47:39,824
aren't born that way. I don't, I don't think people are born that way. Yeah. Like primal too,

678
00:47:39,824 --> 00:47:45,064
because there's some other iterations of Web3 now

679
00:47:45,064 --> 00:47:46,764
with the whole base app and Zora.

680
00:47:46,984 --> 00:47:48,784
I don't know if you're familiar with those two things.

681
00:47:48,784 --> 00:47:52,304
Yeah, the base team was at network school for a while.

682
00:47:52,724 --> 00:47:52,844
Yeah.

683
00:47:53,584 --> 00:47:55,324
And it's just like all this hype,

684
00:47:55,464 --> 00:47:58,944
and then now every piece of content is this tradable thing

685
00:47:58,944 --> 00:48:01,164
that you make money if it goes viral.

686
00:48:01,324 --> 00:48:03,444
It's like, what are the incentives going on?

687
00:48:03,524 --> 00:48:06,264
Like, this is disgusting.

688
00:48:07,284 --> 00:48:08,304
Yep, yep.

689
00:48:08,304 --> 00:48:17,444
But yeah, it's just all these people want to make a buck because they know everything's just getting more expensive over time somehow, even though technology is getting better.

690
00:48:17,784 --> 00:48:30,164
And yeah, a lot of my friends, you know, I have a lot of Normie friends still, especially my surf friends, and they don't really understand why I don't necessarily want to buy a house right now or why I won't just like buy a car.

691
00:48:30,464 --> 00:48:30,864
Yep.

692
00:48:30,864 --> 00:48:33,224
And why just say, no, I'll just, I'll wait.

693
00:48:33,304 --> 00:48:34,204
I'll just buy Bitcoin.

694
00:48:35,244 --> 00:48:37,144
Well, not even buy, but just hold Bitcoin.

695
00:48:38,304 --> 00:48:45,944
And then I think about it, it's like, yeah, this whole money burning a hole in your pocket thing is this whole fiat construct.

696
00:48:46,324 --> 00:48:50,504
Because it's burning a hole in your pocket because you know it's not going to be worth anything later in the future.

697
00:48:50,584 --> 00:48:51,704
So you got to spend it now.

698
00:48:52,704 --> 00:48:58,844
And then just how much Bitcoin like rewires your brain when you know that it's going to be there and preserve your time in the future.

699
00:49:00,184 --> 00:49:04,864
And when you've put in the work to kind of come to that conclusion and be able to sit with that.

700
00:49:05,924 --> 00:49:07,444
Yeah, it really changes the humans.

701
00:49:08,304 --> 00:49:24,224
How do you feel about ownership? So I'm the same way. I used to be a banker. I used to put people in debt every day. I owned a house. I owned a tour bus. I owned a lot of things. And then I found Bitcoin and I sold literally everything.

702
00:49:24,224 --> 00:49:32,524
and I've counseled like my little sisters who are, you know, they're newly married and they

703
00:49:32,524 --> 00:49:36,184
want to start families and they're like, oh, we want to buy a house. And I'm like, please, God,

704
00:49:36,184 --> 00:49:44,184
don't buy a house. Like, just please do not do that. But it does take me to this dangerous place

705
00:49:44,184 --> 00:49:50,984
where I think of the, uh, uh, whoever that fat Santa is that speaks for the world economic forum

706
00:49:50,984 --> 00:49:53,524
that says you will own nothing and you will be happy.

707
00:49:55,044 --> 00:50:00,404
And I'm to a point now where I actually own close to nothing.

708
00:50:01,204 --> 00:50:03,564
I wouldn't say that I'm happy all the time,

709
00:50:03,564 --> 00:50:07,044
but I know that I'm happier than I would be if I were paying a mortgage.

710
00:50:08,604 --> 00:50:12,964
So I guess kind of spiritually, like what does that do to you?

711
00:50:12,964 --> 00:50:16,704
Like I become a Bitcoiner and you become not a minimalist,

712
00:50:17,024 --> 00:50:20,444
but become a maximalist on life experience and a minimal.

713
00:50:20,444 --> 00:50:20,944
Oh my God, yeah.

714
00:50:21,484 --> 00:50:23,324
Minimalists on life, on ownership.

715
00:50:23,824 --> 00:50:25,784
So what's that done to you?

716
00:50:25,804 --> 00:50:26,664
I've had the exact same process of thoughts.

717
00:50:27,004 --> 00:50:27,144
Yeah?

718
00:50:27,664 --> 00:50:30,304
The last, before Laura's parents left,

719
00:50:30,364 --> 00:50:32,404
I just like went over to the Caribbean side

720
00:50:32,404 --> 00:50:34,724
and just got super barreled and had a lot of fun

721
00:50:34,724 --> 00:50:36,404
and, you know, spent some money

722
00:50:36,404 --> 00:50:38,324
getting over there and everything.

723
00:50:38,684 --> 00:50:40,364
But it was like, I got to go do this.

724
00:50:40,704 --> 00:50:42,464
And it's just, yeah, like experiences every day,

725
00:50:42,544 --> 00:50:43,844
like how I want to live.

726
00:50:44,024 --> 00:50:47,024
That's how I, kind of the freedom

727
00:50:47,024 --> 00:50:48,284
that Bitcoin's given me a little bit.

728
00:50:48,284 --> 00:50:52,424
It tells me what's important, how I want to spend my time, what I want to pursue.

729
00:50:54,644 --> 00:50:57,344
And then the ownership thing is hilarious because I've gotten to the same point.

730
00:50:58,104 --> 00:51:00,564
I don't want anything.

731
00:51:01,824 --> 00:51:04,484
I kind of just want to be able to go where I want to go.

732
00:51:06,464 --> 00:51:07,984
And this could all change.

733
00:51:08,264 --> 00:51:15,364
And, you know, right now it's just like, yeah, be the best Paul and figure out how to make myself able to earn money

734
00:51:15,364 --> 00:51:20,324
and build Primal and use my skills to make a better world.

735
00:51:20,944 --> 00:51:21,724
How crazy.

736
00:51:23,684 --> 00:51:24,984
And just saving money.

737
00:51:26,364 --> 00:51:29,344
But the whole own nothing and be happy meme is completely me.

738
00:51:30,284 --> 00:51:30,464
Yeah.

739
00:51:30,824 --> 00:51:32,824
But you put yourself in something else's shoes.

740
00:51:32,824 --> 00:51:33,044
Yeah.

741
00:51:33,764 --> 00:51:37,844
Say you're a really, really successful business guy.

742
00:51:38,384 --> 00:51:40,884
You're not going to own nothing and be happy, maybe.

743
00:51:41,364 --> 00:51:44,784
Then you got the Telegram CEO who's pretty much own nothing and be happy too.

744
00:51:44,784 --> 00:51:45,764
Doesn't even have a phone.

745
00:51:46,264 --> 00:51:49,324
I really do admire that.

746
00:51:49,544 --> 00:51:51,024
109 kids, but no phone.

747
00:51:51,364 --> 00:51:53,124
Yeah, I admire that.

748
00:51:53,464 --> 00:51:55,484
And he's working in tech and doesn't have a phone.

749
00:51:55,604 --> 00:51:55,924
It's hilarious.

750
00:51:56,844 --> 00:51:58,544
But there's definitely something there.

751
00:51:59,244 --> 00:52:00,704
And I think about that a lot too.

752
00:52:01,744 --> 00:52:05,364
I just kind of rambled, but we'll see.

753
00:52:05,604 --> 00:52:07,304
I put myself in somebody else's shoes

754
00:52:07,304 --> 00:52:10,144
where really the cash flow is significant.

755
00:52:10,424 --> 00:52:12,944
It's like, okay, maybe I would buy the house,

756
00:52:12,944 --> 00:52:19,544
have maybe a couple houses or something i don't know maybe i would make a paddle court down the

757
00:52:19,544 --> 00:52:26,704
street so i can go play paddle every day um makes make a business and yeah have other stuff take up

758
00:52:26,704 --> 00:52:33,144
my time but not at that point yet so it's like stay humble focus on your craft stack stats yeah

759
00:52:33,144 --> 00:52:38,124
so you described kind of the traditional bitcoin or arc earlier just in general fashion where you

760
00:52:38,124 --> 00:52:43,744
move through the stages of studying shit coining etc etc is that what you went through or did you

761
00:52:43,744 --> 00:52:50,684
have and did you have some defining like podcast book article or the moment when you got it something

762
00:52:50,684 --> 00:52:56,264
that was the orange pill moment for you I don't remember um but yeah but you know what's interesting

763
00:52:56,264 --> 00:53:03,464
is like I kind of had legacy shit coins like I hadn't been um purchasing any shit coins for

764
00:53:03,464 --> 00:53:09,004
a few years, I think, but they're still in my bad. Just like, I don't want to sell,

765
00:53:09,104 --> 00:53:16,144
blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever. Taxes. It was interesting when I moved down here

766
00:53:16,144 --> 00:53:21,184
and I didn't have a job and it's like, I do not want to touch my Bitcoin.

767
00:53:21,904 --> 00:53:27,904
And it's like, okay, I cleansed myself completely. It's like, then you really start

768
00:53:27,904 --> 00:53:32,564
seeing clearly. Then I think of Bology, we keep bringing them up. This guy is loaded with shit

769
00:53:32,564 --> 00:53:36,644
coins and he's friends with all these shit corners like solana people and you could see it in his eyes

770
00:53:36,644 --> 00:53:43,304
that he's like tired and not healthy dude you just gotta cleanse your bags but anyways that's my

771
00:53:43,304 --> 00:53:50,124
personal opinion of what's going on there i could be completely wrong but i am definitely clipping

772
00:53:50,124 --> 00:53:57,624
that and i'm sending it to the founding director yeah oh yeah because he's at the network state

773
00:53:57,624 --> 00:54:03,744
conference he's holding his maxi bitcoin thing and he's like just interviewing the founder of zcash

774
00:54:03,744 --> 00:54:10,244
like yeah what's going on yeah uh yeah i lost my train of thought oh yeah but there wasn't really

775
00:54:10,244 --> 00:54:14,984
too much of a moment but i always i feel like i talk about this in every podcast i when i was

776
00:54:14,984 --> 00:54:18,324
driving down here i was listening to a bunch of books and podcasts and everything and it was like

777
00:54:18,324 --> 00:54:23,524
there's i think it was a breed love podcast actually and he went through this mind experiment

778
00:54:23,524 --> 00:54:27,204
of what would you do if you were a billionaire how would you spend every minute of the day

779
00:54:27,204 --> 00:54:34,604
of every day. And that really clarified things for me. It's like, okay, some reason I freaking

780
00:54:34,604 --> 00:54:40,824
love to surf. That'll be my thing. I'll be in warm water every day surfing. And then I didn't

781
00:54:40,824 --> 00:54:45,764
know what to work on, but my thought was I'll just work on something important. Cause I've also been

782
00:54:45,764 --> 00:54:49,444
on these surf trips that went too long and it's like, what am I doing with my life? You know,

783
00:54:49,444 --> 00:54:53,464
I think there's something inside all of us that wants to give back and make the world a better

784
00:54:53,464 --> 00:54:58,204
place so i was like okay work on something important and something came to me and then

785
00:54:58,204 --> 00:55:03,404
also the family piece which is cool like i'm you know i got all that now it's crazy

786
00:55:03,404 --> 00:55:10,264
now i gotta really vision the next piece and i just love the way though or go ahead lucas

787
00:55:10,264 --> 00:55:15,624
no actually i'm always more excited to hear what you have to say than what comes

788
00:55:15,624 --> 00:55:20,304
dribbling out of my out of my mouth i was just gonna reflect calling the orange pill moment

789
00:55:20,304 --> 00:55:24,724
as a deep cleanse you know you kind of it's kind of jokingly in relation to biology or whatever but

790
00:55:24,724 --> 00:55:30,124
it is like once you begin to get a bunch of other things in order and deep cleanse from

791
00:55:30,124 --> 00:55:36,724
kind of the dopamine pumps that our society gives us to cleanse to like to take back parasitically

792
00:55:36,724 --> 00:55:42,684
the fiat that it also bestows upon us once you deep cleanse from all of that it does really

793
00:55:42,684 --> 00:55:47,984
scales drop and your your eyes open anew like you're doing a dopamine fast aren't you still

794
00:55:47,984 --> 00:55:55,724
Lucas. Yeah. Yeah. So I read, uh, um, Paul, I read, uh, Anna on a limkey's book, um, dopamine

795
00:55:55,724 --> 00:56:02,984
nation. And, uh, there's protocol in there for like, what can you do to reset your reset your

796
00:56:02,984 --> 00:56:06,944
neurological system? You know, cause you go, especially you go to, you go to the network

797
00:56:06,944 --> 00:56:11,904
school, you're hyper exposed to socialization. You're hyper exposed to web three, all that kind

798
00:56:11,904 --> 00:56:17,404
of stuff. And so, yeah, I'm still grant. I'm, I'm doing pretty well in my dopamine fast. I'm like

799
00:56:17,404 --> 00:56:22,224
staying off staying off sugar staying off social media still having a little coffee but that's

800
00:56:22,224 --> 00:56:28,904
about it yeah that's amazing it's going well yeah like you and and like getting into ketosis um is

801
00:56:28,904 --> 00:56:36,784
really it's a really a mind-changing experience a mind-altering experience can agree yeah so no

802
00:56:36,784 --> 00:56:40,684
fruit then yeah you're in ketosis you're not really doing much fruit at all i literally have

803
00:56:40,684 --> 00:56:46,524
been like walking to the walking to the refrigerator and carving off uh like two tablespoons of butter

804
00:56:46,524 --> 00:56:48,444
and just like gnawing on butter.

805
00:56:48,644 --> 00:56:50,044
I'm like, this is awesome.

806
00:56:50,624 --> 00:56:51,844
This is so cool.

807
00:56:52,264 --> 00:56:54,304
Did you have a gnarly keto flu?

808
00:56:57,184 --> 00:57:01,844
I had a, how can I put this gracefully?

809
00:57:02,504 --> 00:57:13,044
I had a bad experience trying to make it to the restroom.

810
00:57:13,744 --> 00:57:14,724
Okay, understood.

811
00:57:14,724 --> 00:57:15,924
I think we could leave it at that.

812
00:57:15,924 --> 00:57:22,604
yeah but you didn't get like gnarly headaches nope last time i did a little carnivore experiment

813
00:57:22,604 --> 00:57:31,164
experiment i had gnarly keto flu gnarly because i eat a lot of sugar down here like i'm sugared

814
00:57:31,164 --> 00:57:35,244
out because i mean look around me of course we're supposed to eat sugar in the jungle like come on

815
00:57:35,244 --> 00:57:40,604
right maybe but really in the winter in kansas i don't know how much fruit you're supposed to be

816
00:57:40,604 --> 00:57:46,164
happened you know that's right yeah the only fruit in kansas is in lawrence that's a that's

817
00:57:46,164 --> 00:57:55,544
a ku joke sorry like the san francisco of the midwest uh yeah i had a gnarly keto flu

818
00:57:55,544 --> 00:58:03,544
that's a gnarly deal with me like the food i that's why i literally would recommend everybody

819
00:58:03,544 --> 00:58:09,864
do carnivore especially dudes for a month just to prove that you can do it because it's like an

820
00:58:09,864 --> 00:58:16,604
active discipline that's difficult. Yeah. I lived in Columbia for a couple months. And when I first

821
00:58:16,604 --> 00:58:21,404
got there, I was living in a cabin in the Andes mountains, like 30 miles away from anybody.

822
00:58:21,964 --> 00:58:27,904
And the only way I could get to get supplies was to have somebody come pick me up. When I first

823
00:58:27,904 --> 00:58:35,564
got there, I went to this, uh, a butcher and I bought a ton of meat, but there was no grocery

824
00:58:35,564 --> 00:58:41,064
store. So I couldn't, I literally couldn't buy anything but meat. So I just ate meat for like

825
00:58:41,064 --> 00:58:45,964
three weeks straight. It was this natural experiment in carnivorism. It was insane.

826
00:58:46,164 --> 00:58:52,124
Like I felt incredible. My skin was very clear. My, my host showed up to pick me up like three

827
00:58:52,124 --> 00:58:55,524
weeks later. And they're like, you look like five years younger than when we saw you when you got

828
00:58:55,524 --> 00:59:03,564
off the plane. Um, yeah, it's, it's lost like 17 pounds. Um, yeah, it's really crazy what it'll do

829
00:59:03,564 --> 00:59:11,924
for you and make you feel really really really good um my brain was so odd yeah it was crazy

830
00:59:11,924 --> 00:59:18,224
like keto brain's nuts it's unsettling those 3am thoughts must be insane it's a it's unsettling a

831
00:59:18,224 --> 00:59:22,044
little bit too because you're like dude my brain wants to keep going and my body is like

832
00:59:22,044 --> 00:59:28,444
wore out like i i need to i need to rest um but yeah the brain is pushing you on and and really

833
00:59:28,444 --> 00:59:33,504
making a run i don't know what that mechanism is sorry no no i've always thought about that like

834
00:59:33,504 --> 00:59:40,264
why just ketones bro is it just but yeah like a starvation thing or not even you can't just two

835
00:59:40,264 --> 00:59:45,264
different ways to operate i guess i mean it's also you're like you're eliminating other things

836
00:59:45,264 --> 00:59:49,484
that were in your diet that might might have been like mildly inflammatory or your body was having

837
00:59:49,484 --> 00:59:55,064
some sort of reaction to them so it's you know when you radically reduce your diet to one thing

838
00:59:55,064 --> 00:59:59,924
you begin to see just the host of environmental factors that may have been playing into i think

839
00:59:59,924 --> 01:00:07,984
do you fast too paul would you say do i fast yeah i've done uh quite a few fasts in my life and

840
01:00:07,984 --> 01:00:15,624
i love it it's amazing it's a superpower yep but i've kind of programmed my brain to only be able

841
01:00:15,624 --> 01:00:22,044
to do stuff when i tell the internet about it good good but like they're my accountability buddies

842
01:00:22,044 --> 01:00:26,944
because I can't feel like a liar to them if I say I'm on a fast and I break the fast.

843
01:00:27,064 --> 01:00:29,004
Like, no, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

844
01:00:31,304 --> 01:00:34,084
You've got such a radiant, genuine personality.

845
01:00:34,324 --> 01:00:38,644
Like, it's so much fun to talk to somebody who, like I said,

846
01:00:38,644 --> 01:00:43,824
I mean, total baseball bro, like total guy that just wanted to play sports

847
01:00:43,824 --> 01:00:45,944
and probably, you know, like enjoy that.

848
01:00:46,004 --> 01:00:50,244
But to find your way into this, I want to change a little bit, go back to Noster.

849
01:00:50,704 --> 01:00:53,404
What are other projects in Nostra that you're excited about?

850
01:00:53,584 --> 01:00:56,064
Like outside of Primal, we're bringing on Calvadev.

851
01:00:56,104 --> 01:00:57,444
He's going to tell us about Shopster.

852
01:00:58,224 --> 01:01:01,724
Maybe we'll get Nick from Fountain.

853
01:01:02,084 --> 01:01:04,504
He's been absolutely fantastic to work with.

854
01:01:05,884 --> 01:01:08,204
But yeah, like what are some of the other projects

855
01:01:08,204 --> 01:01:12,864
and where do you see the momentum right now in Nostra?

856
01:01:13,804 --> 01:01:14,564
You know what's cool?

857
01:01:14,704 --> 01:01:16,904
Let's talk about the whole shop space and everything.

858
01:01:16,904 --> 01:01:26,544
there's this organic like shopping experience happening on nostril right now and like people

859
01:01:26,544 --> 01:01:31,824
will just zap for goods and services like for example i got a couple different things coming

860
01:01:31,824 --> 01:01:36,484
to my house from my mom when she comes down here that have come to the jungle that i bought on

861
01:01:36,484 --> 01:01:41,744
nostril and just the checkout and the experience of just walking around with with the wallet in

862
01:01:41,744 --> 01:01:47,704
your app that's mine man i want to see one day like a gnarly marketplace maybe in primal or just

863
01:01:47,704 --> 01:01:52,004
super interoperable like maybe in primal there's a button to go to shop store stuff like that

864
01:01:52,004 --> 01:01:57,164
because that's a cool experience this kind of just feels liberating i don't know um and then

865
01:01:57,164 --> 01:02:02,304
another project i'm really excited about that has actually i think the biggest team in nostril now

866
01:02:02,304 --> 01:02:11,384
is white noise have you heard of them so that's like a signal killer signal replacement it's got

867
01:02:11,384 --> 01:02:15,704
very similar, and then this is my normie way of seeing things, but maybe that's the best way.

868
01:02:16,644 --> 01:02:21,384
It's very similar to Signal in terms of the protocol they use and why it has privacy,

869
01:02:21,684 --> 01:02:38,356
but then it leverages Noster for the identity piece and the decentralization piece So no phone number of course is needed You can just generate any identity and then you can share that with your friends like here how to contact me And then instead of Signal Signal has one database

870
01:02:38,436 --> 01:02:42,036
So like one relay, one server where all the messages are stored.

871
01:02:42,115 --> 01:02:43,576
So central point of failure.

872
01:02:43,876 --> 01:02:46,596
Whereas Noster, there's no central point of failure.

873
01:02:47,135 --> 01:02:49,376
The messages travel through relays.

874
01:02:49,376 --> 01:02:57,596
so like this is the decentralized open source unstoppable messaging app which is pretty rad

875
01:02:57,596 --> 01:03:04,276
and when they catch up to the ux of the least signal it's kind of interesting it could be a big

876
01:03:04,276 --> 01:03:09,736
and and actually their infrastructure as well can be just thrown into primal as our dms now

877
01:03:09,736 --> 01:03:15,135
like hey we got the best most private dms by default yeah like we can't see who you're talking

878
01:03:15,135 --> 01:03:16,316
We can't see what's in the message.

879
01:03:16,716 --> 01:03:20,536
No metadata is leaked, meaning, yeah, we don't see who talked to who.

880
01:03:20,876 --> 01:03:21,796
The network wouldn't see that.

881
01:03:21,856 --> 01:03:22,376
It's all private.

882
01:03:23,256 --> 01:03:26,635
And that's kind of this whole thing has been philosophized about for forever.

883
01:03:27,036 --> 01:03:29,816
And now it's like here and working.

884
01:03:30,236 --> 01:03:32,936
And I can actually send messages over it and photos.

885
01:03:33,196 --> 01:03:35,436
And yeah, I'm proud about that.

886
01:03:35,936 --> 01:03:37,556
We just talked to Max Hillebrand.

887
01:03:37,856 --> 01:03:38,296
There you go, yeah.

888
01:03:38,296 --> 01:03:47,256
He, uh, I think he mentioned that there's been recently like a significant upgrade in the security of Noster messaging.

889
01:03:47,256 --> 01:03:49,376
Is, is that what he's referring to?

890
01:03:49,536 --> 01:03:51,876
Yeah, I'm surprised he didn't actually just say white noise.

891
01:03:52,436 --> 01:03:54,276
So where's white noise based?

892
01:03:55,135 --> 01:03:55,416
Yeah.

893
01:03:56,036 --> 01:03:56,476
Oh, wow.

894
01:03:56,696 --> 01:03:58,396
He's a super humble guy though.

895
01:03:58,576 --> 01:03:59,836
Like, I mean, yeah.

896
01:04:00,356 --> 01:04:02,635
I mean, he's kind of worked on everything like Wasabi and.

897
01:04:02,996 --> 01:04:03,276
Yeah.

898
01:04:04,776 --> 01:04:05,635
He's yeah.

899
01:04:05,716 --> 01:04:06,836
The guy's like a samurai.

900
01:04:06,836 --> 01:04:18,456
Yeah. And then if you just, he talks so smoothly and like he drops bangers the whole time. And it's like, wait, I need to think about that one last sentence. And he drops another one. It's like, wait.

901
01:04:18,456 --> 01:04:21,756
Yeah. Let me tell you about the axiom of resistance.

902
01:04:21,756 --> 01:04:33,635
Him talking about framing Nostra as valleys of flourishing, like you imagine a mountain and there's all these isolated communities and each are a valley and they're all separated.

903
01:04:33,836 --> 01:04:42,916
And so you could have like indigenous cultures arise again that are unique within those valleys that are kind of protected, isolated a bit from the other valleys.

904
01:04:42,996 --> 01:04:46,896
So you can each have an independent culture within them, but have multiple valleys.

905
01:04:46,896 --> 01:04:52,536
Yeah, he just has an excellent way of just like framing it so that someone like me who doesn't know it can understand.

906
01:04:53,336 --> 01:04:55,076
Yeah, we were kind of talking about that earlier.

907
01:04:55,175 --> 01:04:56,896
And that's a way more elegant way to say that.

908
01:04:56,976 --> 01:05:00,296
Like each little app and relays can have their own rules.

909
01:05:00,476 --> 01:05:04,296
Like, OK, no, that guy has to prove who they are before they enter our little space.

910
01:05:04,635 --> 01:05:10,675
But then you could just use your same identity to hop into another app or like or the hop into the global town square and say something to the world.

911
01:05:11,396 --> 01:05:12,256
It's pretty cool.

912
01:05:13,675 --> 01:05:14,996
So white noise is gangster.

913
01:05:14,996 --> 01:05:17,376
That's going to be awesome.

914
01:05:18,096 --> 01:05:29,096
What about, like we talked earlier and your eyes kind of lit up when I said that Noster could be that Web3 interoperability moment between gaming.

915
01:05:29,716 --> 01:05:35,776
Like we thought that sandbox and all that stuff was going to be in 2021.

916
01:05:36,196 --> 01:05:40,536
Is there a gaming community being built in Noster as well?

917
01:05:41,096 --> 01:05:42,056
I'm not a gamer.

918
01:05:42,056 --> 01:05:47,655
I've never have, I have no desire to become one, but I do know it's a great way to attract a lot of people.

919
01:05:48,436 --> 01:05:53,956
Yeah. I mean, anything could scale this place. Like you can just have the next flappy bird.

920
01:05:54,256 --> 01:05:56,076
Remember when flappy bird came out and everybody was flapping?

921
01:05:56,556 --> 01:06:01,436
You know, instead of just that in-house identity, whatever the heck they use, just use a Nostra identity.

922
01:06:01,536 --> 01:06:04,436
Next thing you know, millions of people are using Nostra without us even really knowing.

923
01:06:04,956 --> 01:06:07,876
It's like, oh, wait, all these friends I just made on this app can go talk over here.

924
01:06:07,876 --> 01:06:12,236
you know it could start to make sense as the gravity inclusives we're just kind of in this

925
01:06:12,236 --> 01:06:17,135
i wouldn't call it a cold start problem because we have real people using the apps every day

926
01:06:17,135 --> 01:06:21,436
but it's just it does feel like that yeah it does kind of feel like that you're right the

927
01:06:21,436 --> 01:06:27,236
cold start problem that's a good way to put it um because i open up my primal app and i basically see

928
01:06:27,236 --> 01:06:36,876
um a post by lynn alden and then some guy named deez nuts and that's pretty much my experience

929
01:06:36,876 --> 01:06:43,376
most days yeah and these nuts is wild by the way i like the guy he's awesome you know you can swipe

930
01:06:43,376 --> 01:06:51,335
over like trending stuff right i haven't ever done it yeah see we're gonna see like there's reasons

931
01:06:51,335 --> 01:06:56,736
why primal isn't mainstream yet man like it'll happen when i mean we've got all the i've seen

932
01:06:56,736 --> 01:07:00,896
the ux that's coming it's like and i knew there's a lot of people don't even know that we have these

933
01:07:00,896 --> 01:07:06,576
trending feeds like damn okay i'll check and there will be more algorithms and stuff to you know

934
01:07:06,576 --> 01:07:10,496
help you see what you kind of want to see, but know why you're getting that information and

935
01:07:10,496 --> 01:07:14,155
everything. And it'll all be open source and you'll be able to see why you're seeing this content

936
01:07:14,155 --> 01:07:19,896
and everything. But one of the things that I think is amazing, we did this for the last episode with

937
01:07:19,896 --> 01:07:26,316
Max is that we got done and I said, Hey man, shoot me a lightning address. And so I drop in,

938
01:07:26,396 --> 01:07:32,175
we'll do it with you too. I drop his lightning address in. And so now any zaps that we get off

939
01:07:32,175 --> 01:07:37,936
of this podcast on fountain, they'll be split. Um, and that gives us that value for value type

940
01:07:37,936 --> 01:07:43,835
of thing that pushes people. Like that was my grant was asking you about your, like your aha

941
01:07:43,835 --> 01:07:50,956
moment. Like my aha moment as a musician was realizing the power of collaboration, um, was

942
01:07:50,956 --> 01:07:57,356
that we're all collab, we're all incentivized to work together. Um, you know, because if you have

943
01:07:57,356 --> 01:08:04,856
just as much ownership in this podcast as we do, um, then, you know, you extrapolate that out over

944
01:08:04,856 --> 01:08:11,335
the grand experience of, of working with a community. It really raises the level of everything

945
01:08:11,335 --> 01:08:17,996
that we do. You know, I, I might even wear pants to, to a podcast, you know? Yeah. Big, big stuff.

946
01:08:17,996 --> 01:08:21,735
Yeah, I was getting in the game right there, but that, that's amazing too. Like, isn't it just so

947
01:08:21,735 --> 01:08:26,676
obvious? Like my wife and I got like over a thousand dollars when we announced, when we did

948
01:08:26,676 --> 01:08:31,295
our little pregnancy or our little uh what is it gender reveal video did you see that did you see

949
01:08:31,295 --> 01:08:38,315
that i did yeah yeah i i threw up a coconut and put some uh some powder in there my friend did

950
01:08:38,315 --> 01:08:45,476
and then i blew it up with a bat and then i almost died but i felt but uh yeah we got like over a

951
01:08:45,476 --> 01:08:49,676
thousand dollars worth of bitcoin from that and then when we announced we had my we got another

952
01:08:49,676 --> 01:08:54,916
like thousand dollars worth and i threw that to cold storage and it's like this is so obvious

953
01:08:54,916 --> 01:09:00,196
people from around the world are sending us money whether it's big or small they can send whatever

954
01:09:00,196 --> 01:09:07,916
they want like dude we can be connected to people who are less fortunate and help support them with

955
01:09:07,916 --> 01:09:16,476
like little micro transactions as well like it's so cool and so obvious um that the future needs to

956
01:09:16,476 --> 01:09:23,435
go to something like this let's just open decentralized permissionless and it's here today

957
01:09:23,435 --> 01:09:25,596
and it's kind of surprising them.

958
01:09:25,916 --> 01:09:27,576
Not many more people are using it, to be honest,

959
01:09:27,676 --> 01:09:30,076
but like, you can go get zapped and go buy a banana.

960
01:09:30,496 --> 01:09:31,755
There was one time down the street,

961
01:09:32,156 --> 01:09:33,815
we were just sitting there and we realized

962
01:09:33,815 --> 01:09:36,775
we had somehow no money in any of our lightning wallets,

963
01:09:36,855 --> 01:09:37,476
my wife and I.

964
01:09:38,076 --> 01:09:39,815
And then we were just starting to shitpost on Primal

965
01:09:39,815 --> 01:09:41,976
and then someone sent us 5,000 sats

966
01:09:41,976 --> 01:09:43,196
and literally covered our coconuts

967
01:09:43,196 --> 01:09:45,496
that we were going to pay for when I got home.

968
01:09:46,016 --> 01:09:46,895
It was hilarious.

969
01:09:47,755 --> 01:09:48,976
I was like, wait, what?

970
01:09:51,216 --> 01:09:51,996
That's awesome.

971
01:09:52,456 --> 01:09:52,696
Yeah.

972
01:09:53,435 --> 01:10:11,775
Oh, man, you're having the time of your life, dude. It's really cool. Really cool to have like, you just have so much energy for this space. And you're right, like you get into it. It's just like Bitcoin where you get into it and you're like, why is not everyone else figured this out already? This is this is clearly better.

973
01:10:11,775 --> 01:10:20,295
um so yeah it's very exciting very exciting grant um i know that you were uh still you know kind of

974
01:10:20,295 --> 01:10:24,416
i'm just i'm still trying to nostril you i'm still trying to bring you on what are the other

975
01:10:24,416 --> 01:10:30,815
questions that you've got for paul as far as like how can i get you to rip away from x yeah and

976
01:10:30,815 --> 01:10:36,376
facebook and uh and find yourself over on over on nostril i mean just as as a normie there's all

977
01:10:36,376 --> 01:10:41,976
network effects. I don't want to be on X. I mean, not even because I think there's a better social

978
01:10:41,976 --> 01:10:47,815
app. I just don't want to be on any social apps. I'm on X kind of by force. You know, you have to

979
01:10:47,815 --> 01:10:52,315
be, you got to get the podcast out. You got to network with people, that type of thing. There's

980
01:10:52,315 --> 01:10:58,056
always going to be a default. And so once Primal, once Nostra has those network effects, it's going

981
01:10:58,056 --> 01:11:03,275
to get the normies like me that just out of sheer necessity of living in the modern world, you have

982
01:11:03,275 --> 01:11:05,935
to have some interface onto other people.

983
01:11:06,116 --> 01:11:07,576
But I mean, that's all it is.

984
01:11:07,576 --> 01:11:09,636
It's just like, unfortunately,

985
01:11:09,636 --> 01:11:11,996
I'm just waiting to be forced over

986
01:11:11,996 --> 01:11:13,735
to the next thing I'll have to do.

987
01:11:14,136 --> 01:11:16,756
So that's your cold start problem.

988
01:11:16,876 --> 01:11:17,895
So Paul, what are you doing

989
01:11:17,895 --> 01:11:20,076
to recruit Kim Kardashian to Noster?

990
01:11:20,656 --> 01:11:22,435
I actually just made a tool for that.

991
01:11:23,056 --> 01:11:25,815
But is this what you've been working on?

992
01:11:25,876 --> 01:11:26,295
Vibe coding?

993
01:11:26,596 --> 01:11:27,156
Yeah, dude.

994
01:11:27,395 --> 01:11:28,235
Vibe coding is insane.

995
01:11:28,235 --> 01:11:29,476
I cannot wait till-

996
01:11:29,476 --> 01:11:30,096
It's a drug.

997
01:11:30,576 --> 01:11:31,775
It's an absolute drug.

998
01:11:31,775 --> 01:11:33,636
I've not had this much fun on the screen.

999
01:11:34,516 --> 01:11:37,735
Like this is the first time my wife's been like, dude, what are you doing?

1000
01:11:37,815 --> 01:11:42,395
Like, you know, a little worried about me, like spending a little too much time on the screen and, you know, it's off brand.

1001
01:11:42,656 --> 01:11:44,636
But yeah, I'm building something cool.

1002
01:11:44,636 --> 01:11:54,536
But actually to Grant's point, yeah, there's a lot more reasons to be on X and Instagram because the people are there.

1003
01:11:54,536 --> 01:12:01,956
if you have anything to do with the bitcoin space you are completely missing out not being on primal

1004
01:12:01,956 --> 01:12:08,076
and i could say that with a straight pace yeah or nostr of course like you need to be here you can

1005
01:12:08,076 --> 01:12:12,136
get the attention of the jeff booths and the winaldans and the jacks of the world way easier

1006
01:12:12,136 --> 01:12:18,156
on nostr and you'll stand out more by replying to people and just talking to people or if you want

1007
01:12:18,156 --> 01:12:23,116
to share you know an insight you had or just store your bananas you're eating you know like whatever

1008
01:12:23,116 --> 01:12:26,636
to Primal.

1009
01:12:28,476 --> 01:12:30,496
And then, yeah, to get the other people here.

1010
01:12:30,596 --> 01:12:30,916
Who knows?

1011
01:12:31,576 --> 01:12:33,596
It might just take a few key people here and there.

1012
01:12:33,876 --> 01:12:38,116
We don't need billions of people to make a successful business as well.

1013
01:12:38,116 --> 01:12:44,096
We can be humble and make a great business out of Primal too

1014
01:12:44,096 --> 01:12:49,295
without just extracting from and farming people, really.

1015
01:12:50,876 --> 01:12:52,835
But yeah, there also needs to be bridges.

1016
01:12:53,116 --> 01:12:58,456
to noster because people they put so much effort into their you know platforms and coming over and

1017
01:12:58,456 --> 01:13:05,275
starting from zero on noster it's like well here we go again you know exactly yeah i mean i i've got

1018
01:13:05,275 --> 01:13:10,435
60 some followers on noster i've got a couple thousand on x like more than that on facebook

1019
01:13:10,435 --> 01:13:17,315
and it is it's very humbling to be like just once again speaking into the void yes no one no one

1020
01:13:17,315 --> 01:13:22,935
hears no one cares and you can shamelessly like dm me you know your posts and stuff and i'll repost

1021
01:13:22,935 --> 01:13:24,116
I'm like, we are the algorithm.

1022
01:13:24,256 --> 01:13:26,676
I shamelessly DM'd you to get you on this podcast.

1023
01:13:26,935 --> 01:13:32,116
Like the only people that haven't responded are Jack Dorsey and safety

1024
01:13:32,116 --> 01:13:32,636
dynamics.

1025
01:13:33,195 --> 01:13:33,476
Yeah.

1026
01:13:35,795 --> 01:13:37,476
They're nice guys too.

1027
01:13:37,576 --> 01:13:38,096
Both of them.

1028
01:13:39,395 --> 01:13:42,315
I will say just from the secondhand perspective,

1029
01:13:42,435 --> 01:13:45,716
what Lucas has accomplished through Noster has been incredible getting

1030
01:13:45,716 --> 01:13:47,795
max on and getting you on Paul.

1031
01:13:47,996 --> 01:13:49,376
It's the community there.

1032
01:13:49,476 --> 01:13:50,916
I mean, that speaks for itself right there.

1033
01:13:50,916 --> 01:13:52,596
Just what a great set of people.

1034
01:13:52,935 --> 01:13:58,855
and you know i'll give you a playbook too is you whip out your wallet and you go zap people

1035
01:13:58,855 --> 01:14:04,335
now it almost feels like buying engagement or buying followers or something but every person

1036
01:14:04,335 --> 01:14:10,195
that zaps me i go look at like their their profile who is this follow everyone yeah right

1037
01:14:10,195 --> 01:14:17,096
and this is something if you give me money you deserve my attention right exactly and you can

1038
01:14:17,096 --> 01:14:21,976
go stand out by going to the trending feed that you never see i guess um you can see the four hour

1039
01:14:21,976 --> 01:14:23,756
the one hour, the 12 hour, but anyways,

1040
01:14:23,756 --> 01:14:27,695
and going and zapping and being the top zap on each post is like,

1041
01:14:27,695 --> 01:14:29,036
there's some visibility for you too.

1042
01:14:29,096 --> 01:14:31,855
If you want to grow a little bit and get some attention that way,

1043
01:14:31,895 --> 01:14:33,476
you can even put a note in there.

1044
01:14:33,616 --> 01:14:37,735
Like Walker will have a link to his podcast in the note on his zap.

1045
01:14:38,076 --> 01:14:40,735
And it's like this whole concept called zap for tizing,

1046
01:14:40,876 --> 01:14:44,596
which is a way to get attention by like Jack makes a post.

1047
01:14:44,676 --> 01:14:48,056
You send him the most amount of money and everybody sees your little message

1048
01:14:48,056 --> 01:14:51,416
underneath. What a wholesome loop that is. Jack wins, you win.

1049
01:14:51,976 --> 01:14:54,576
I win if you do it to my posts or whatever.

1050
01:14:55,476 --> 01:14:55,935
It's a cool.

1051
01:14:55,996 --> 01:14:56,735
Yeah, that's awesome.

1052
01:14:56,976 --> 01:15:01,735
That's like the, it's an honest form of pay to play kind of.

1053
01:15:01,775 --> 01:15:01,895
Yeah.

1054
01:15:02,216 --> 01:15:04,756
And then Primal, in terms of growth and stuff,

1055
01:15:04,835 --> 01:15:07,476
like we haven't made it too easy for newbies to find their tribes too.

1056
01:15:07,476 --> 01:15:11,096
Like say, you know, someone from the health space came over and it's like,

1057
01:15:11,435 --> 01:15:14,395
okay, people come over and then they see nobody from the health space

1058
01:15:14,395 --> 01:15:15,116
that they want to follow.

1059
01:15:15,616 --> 01:15:18,476
But what if there's like links we could send out where, okay,

1060
01:15:18,476 --> 01:15:20,116
follow this person, this person, that person.

1061
01:15:20,235 --> 01:15:21,456
Next thing you know, they're all linked in.

1062
01:15:21,456 --> 01:15:26,116
you know stuff like that that we haven't focused on yet as we're just trying to catch up and have

1063
01:15:26,116 --> 01:15:30,536
the basic social media functions but on a decentralized network what are you gonna say

1064
01:15:30,536 --> 01:15:35,695
grant no i was just gonna yeah the lucas you call the pay for play but i mean we talk about

1065
01:15:35,695 --> 01:15:40,456
pay authentication just the idea of a little bit of proof of humanity right there if someone is

1066
01:15:40,456 --> 01:15:44,616
giving a little bit of value that's more likely than not that's a real person that's not a bot

1067
01:15:44,616 --> 01:15:50,735
that's somebody who cares yeah exactly then you see if other real people follow him it's like oh

1068
01:15:50,735 --> 01:15:50,855
Yeah.

1069
01:15:53,335 --> 01:15:56,676
Who's on Nostra that I don't know about that I should know about?

1070
01:15:56,895 --> 01:16:00,136
You know, I know Jeff and Saifedean and Jack.

1071
01:16:00,376 --> 01:16:04,275
It gives me a lot of hope that Jack is still partial owner of X.

1072
01:16:04,395 --> 01:16:10,576
You know, he's still got some skin in the game over there that maybe someday that they'll run X on Nostra and make that seamless.

1073
01:16:10,576 --> 01:16:22,636
But who are some of the people that we should know about on Nostra that are either people we wouldn't expect to be on Nostra or just people that are really high signal worthwhile?

1074
01:16:23,815 --> 01:16:25,636
I know there's going to be a lot of them.

1075
01:16:25,815 --> 01:16:26,376
I know there's a lot.

1076
01:16:26,376 --> 01:16:32,235
The top, like, I mean, like I can without a doubt say like this is the place to come for Bitcoin signal.

1077
01:16:33,036 --> 01:16:34,376
I like this guy named Laser.

1078
01:16:34,835 --> 01:16:39,976
He always has interesting takes about like health and Bitcoin and even like Christianity and philosophy.

1079
01:16:40,576 --> 01:16:41,956
That was my buddy Source Node.

1080
01:16:42,235 --> 01:16:43,916
He's got all these great takes.

1081
01:16:43,996 --> 01:16:46,116
He's actually, he just found work on Nostra.

1082
01:16:46,176 --> 01:16:49,656
He's like retired and he's like basically doing this work for free.

1083
01:16:49,695 --> 01:16:51,376
And the next thing you know, this company wants to help.

1084
01:16:51,996 --> 01:16:53,275
He's working, which is kind of cool.

1085
01:16:53,315 --> 01:16:54,216
But I love his takes.

1086
01:16:54,895 --> 01:16:57,616
I brought a bunch of my friends in the health space and they're here now.

1087
01:16:57,616 --> 01:16:59,295
And then like Saladino's on there as well.

1088
01:17:00,656 --> 01:17:06,516
And then Ken Berry, which is a big guy in the diet world as well.

1089
01:17:06,576 --> 01:17:09,335
He naturally found Nostra and he's pretty active on there as well.

1090
01:17:10,576 --> 01:17:16,295
yeah it's it's all coming you know then i'll read some articles every once in a while it's like oh

1091
01:17:16,295 --> 01:17:24,156
dude glad you're here this is cool like yeah the people that are coming over because there is a

1092
01:17:24,156 --> 01:17:32,376
little bit of a technical hurdle right now um so the people that tend to be here are there's a lot

1093
01:17:32,376 --> 01:17:37,395
of developers or people that are you know pretty intelligent so it's a cool place to start from

1094
01:17:37,395 --> 01:17:42,536
now we just gotta make the tools to make it go somewhere yeah it feels like early myspace days

1095
01:17:42,536 --> 01:17:48,016
and it's really encouraging that the grand majority of the people that are on nostr are

1096
01:17:48,016 --> 01:17:54,795
are devs they're builders and they're bitcoiners um that seems like a good place to be yeah the

1097
01:17:54,795 --> 01:18:01,056
other part funny part too is they're all grants people that freaking hate social media yeah it's

1098
01:18:01,056 --> 01:18:07,376
like ah i gotta make one this guy hodlbod i don't know if you guys know hodlbod he's kind

1099
01:18:07,376 --> 01:18:11,456
a part of the thank god for bitcoin movement and he actually has a podcast called thank god for

1100
01:18:11,456 --> 01:18:18,496
nostr you should listen to him talk about like he'll philosophize kind of on max level but kind

1101
01:18:18,496 --> 01:18:24,416
of with a christianity lens about like the means of which we're communicating and everything the

1102
01:18:24,416 --> 01:18:31,735
mediums um that's another one to go follow that's a great one as well i shared with this grant shared

1103
01:18:31,735 --> 01:18:38,976
shared this with grant um last week but um like it was 10 days ago now that was like the first time

1104
01:18:38,976 --> 01:18:45,335
in probably over a decade that i got down on my knees and i prayed and i it was like a really

1105
01:18:45,335 --> 01:18:49,815
beautiful moment um because i didn't know what i was doing i didn't know what i was saying i'm just

1106
01:18:49,815 --> 01:18:55,656
like well this hurts i've got two torn acls and this is painful i'm like um but i think it's a

1107
01:18:55,656 --> 01:19:04,176
good thing. And Michael Saylor talks about how Bitcoin is hope and hope is having something to

1108
01:19:04,176 --> 01:19:11,556
believe in that's beyond what you are. And Bitcoin and Noster, the community surrounding it,

1109
01:19:12,016 --> 01:19:17,335
for some reason, it's continued over the last four or five years to draw me closer and closer

1110
01:19:17,335 --> 01:19:22,695
and closer back to my faith and back to my spiritual, back to Christianity in particular.

1111
01:19:22,695 --> 01:19:26,156
and I've really enjoyed

1112
01:19:26,156 --> 01:19:28,056
kind of the

1113
01:19:28,056 --> 01:19:30,295
sort of like just the dumb

1114
01:19:30,295 --> 01:19:31,516
innocence of that journey

1115
01:19:31,516 --> 01:19:34,256
and just being kind of vulnerable

1116
01:19:34,256 --> 01:19:35,775
about it and

1117
01:19:35,775 --> 01:19:38,315
we've done a little reading

1118
01:19:38,315 --> 01:19:40,235
Grant and I on sort of like the

1119
01:19:40,235 --> 01:19:42,315
Bitcoin theology type of approach

1120
01:19:42,315 --> 01:19:44,616
you know Bitcoin monasteries

1121
01:19:44,616 --> 01:19:45,216
incoming

1122
01:19:45,216 --> 01:19:47,916
and so yeah

1123
01:19:47,916 --> 01:19:49,956
I don't know it's a good

1124
01:19:49,956 --> 01:19:52,395
it just it really does it like feels like home

1125
01:19:52,395 --> 01:19:54,016
I'm sure that's how you feel.

1126
01:19:54,556 --> 01:20:03,256
But it does feel like home to be surrounded by those people that are kind of looking at the world with the same glint in their eye, maybe, as you are.

1127
01:20:04,456 --> 01:20:04,656
Yeah.

1128
01:20:04,876 --> 01:20:05,716
I mean, is it a glint?

1129
01:20:05,795 --> 01:20:06,815
Is it rose-colored glasses?

1130
01:20:06,976 --> 01:20:07,636
Is it the truth?

1131
01:20:07,756 --> 01:20:09,176
We're just here to figure it out.

1132
01:20:09,536 --> 01:20:17,216
So, yeah, in my drive down here is when I first hung out with Bitcoiners for the first time.

1133
01:20:17,216 --> 01:20:23,756
I always like to encourage people to go out of their way to go do that and go to the conferences if you've never been.

1134
01:20:24,315 --> 01:20:26,136
Because it completely changed my life.

1135
01:20:26,916 --> 01:20:32,136
But really, yeah, it was just actually connecting with someone in real life instead of just lurking on Twitter.

1136
01:20:34,096 --> 01:20:36,195
Yeah, it was a huge eye-opener for me.

1137
01:20:36,295 --> 01:20:40,996
Like, oh, this is what I've kind of been missing, you know, people that are kind of on the same wavelength.

1138
01:20:41,416 --> 01:20:44,576
It definitely is a big filter, which is why the network state is interesting.

1139
01:20:44,576 --> 01:20:52,156
it is right and by the way yeah if you ever get the opportunity i'd go man it's yeah even with

1140
01:20:52,156 --> 01:20:59,056
life and baby yeah oh yeah and and they actually um a month ago they started a nursery so they've

1141
01:20:59,056 --> 01:21:04,195
got child care there um and um that was what actually that was probably one of the best things

1142
01:21:04,195 --> 01:21:11,315
about it um to give you a little background like i got there as a member and um i was a bit

1143
01:21:11,315 --> 01:21:16,056
frustrated because they were like, Oh, we have a cold plunge and we have a sauna, but none of it

1144
01:21:16,056 --> 01:21:20,596
was built and none of it was put together. And I was like, there's a hundred engineers here and

1145
01:21:20,596 --> 01:21:27,835
nobody knows how to change a light bulb. And so I, I went, I went to town and I bought some tools

1146
01:21:27,835 --> 01:21:32,416
and I came back and I started putting everything together. And, uh, and then I started fixing

1147
01:21:32,416 --> 01:21:38,935
things and then I started hosting music concerts and, um, just all kinds of stuff. And about three

1148
01:21:38,935 --> 01:21:43,216
weeks in, they came to me and they said, Hey, would you be interested in like actually working

1149
01:21:43,216 --> 01:21:49,756
for us and running a program called man camp and basically teaching these like dude skills

1150
01:21:49,756 --> 01:21:53,735
because everybody else there comes from a big city. They've never worked with tools.

1151
01:21:54,355 --> 01:21:59,956
And I have this thesis that as we progress further and further towards AI and robotics,

1152
01:22:00,235 --> 01:22:07,355
technology is going to make us all more even. You've heard the saying like, um, God made man,

1153
01:22:07,355 --> 01:22:09,096
but Samuel Colt made man equal.

1154
01:22:09,956 --> 01:22:12,775
You know, like the pistol makes everybody equal in a fight.

1155
01:22:13,416 --> 01:22:19,855
And so I have this thesis that in a world of technology where you don't have to do anything,

1156
01:22:20,176 --> 01:22:24,556
what you can do on your own is the only thing that separates you from other people.

1157
01:22:24,716 --> 01:22:29,596
So to be able to have agency and be able to impart physics upon the world around you through

1158
01:22:29,596 --> 01:22:34,355
use of tools and through use of your own imagination, I think is really important.

1159
01:22:34,355 --> 01:23:01,435
Plus, it's a great way to learn. And just I think, by the way, again, this is a Web3 thing that I think a lot about. In Jason Lowry's book, Software, he talks about one of the reasons why we have this Web3 problem with all of this like proof of stake, abstract stuff is simply the nature of who developers are, which is that they're often the people that did not excel, that were shunned.

1160
01:23:01,435 --> 01:23:04,695
And they're kind of like, oh, I can go learn on my own how to code.

1161
01:23:04,795 --> 01:23:06,935
And here's a world with no rules.

1162
01:23:07,376 --> 01:23:09,775
And a world with no rules is actually not very good.

1163
01:23:09,895 --> 01:23:14,376
Like you read Jocko Willink's book, Discipline is Freedom, you know, extreme ownership.

1164
01:23:14,916 --> 01:23:18,136
The more discipline you have, the more responsibility you have.

1165
01:23:18,235 --> 01:23:19,056
That's Jordan Peterson.

1166
01:23:19,795 --> 01:23:19,916
Yeah.

1167
01:23:19,967 --> 01:23:22,147
the more free your life is, right?

1168
01:23:22,987 --> 01:23:24,507
But anyways, to get back to the whole thing,

1169
01:23:24,507 --> 01:23:27,387
I started doing these morning ruck marches.

1170
01:23:27,967 --> 01:23:30,207
And every single morning, 7 a.m.,

1171
01:23:30,207 --> 01:23:32,447
we go on a five-kilometer ruck march.

1172
01:23:33,327 --> 01:23:37,627
And Balaji's son and Balaji's father-in-law

1173
01:23:37,627 --> 01:23:40,787
joined every single day.

1174
01:23:41,087 --> 01:23:41,687
No way.

1175
01:23:41,987 --> 01:23:46,007
And to watch the transformation that that kid had.

1176
01:23:46,327 --> 01:23:49,387
And, I mean, his father-in-law lost like 24 pounds

1177
01:23:49,387 --> 01:23:52,527
just in two months or something like that, just doing that, you know.

1178
01:23:53,807 --> 01:24:02,207
But to see Balji's son, you know, who is utterly brilliant and a wonderful, wonderful kid,

1179
01:24:02,327 --> 01:24:06,907
but to see him like kind of start showing up more as a man, a little more square-shouldered

1180
01:24:06,907 --> 01:24:09,287
and a little more looking in the eye and a little more quiet.

1181
01:24:10,727 --> 01:24:12,247
Yeah, it was just really beautiful.

1182
01:24:12,767 --> 01:24:14,967
So there are quite a few kids around there.

1183
01:24:15,207 --> 01:24:16,527
Man, take the wife, take the kids.

1184
01:24:16,527 --> 01:24:31,699
Obviously you you you got a really little one right now So maybe maybe wait a minute on that but yeah it awesome Go to like maybe there and go to asia and just kind of see the world like i want to go see china like get over there

1185
01:24:31,699 --> 01:24:36,879
they just took a trip so i i came back in september and like two weeks after i came back

1186
01:24:36,879 --> 01:24:43,399
um they basically took like the whole network school to china um to like shenzhen and i can't

1187
01:24:43,399 --> 01:24:50,979
remember where else and um the the reports that i got from them were that like for a lot of them

1188
01:24:50,979 --> 01:24:57,359
they felt it was like more american than they pictured america was supposed to be because you

1189
01:24:57,359 --> 01:25:03,659
fly into lax and it's just like dude what the heck yeah nightmare yeah yeah i remember the first time

1190
01:25:03,659 --> 01:25:10,959
i flew into lax i i was in the plane and we're coming down and there's the the smog level and

1191
01:25:10,959 --> 01:25:13,259
And I'm like, I'm old enough to know better at this point.

1192
01:25:13,259 --> 01:25:15,199
I'm like 23, 24.

1193
01:25:15,199 --> 01:25:18,319
And I looked at that smog and I was like, that's solid.

1194
01:25:18,319 --> 01:25:20,139
This plane is gonna bounce off that.

1195
01:25:20,139 --> 01:25:21,339
We're going to explode.

1196
01:25:21,339 --> 01:25:22,939
Like I thought we were gonna die.

1197
01:25:23,959 --> 01:25:36,591
It horrific So yeah yeah But yeah go check out the network school man it it fascinating and also the opportunity to be able to like swim against the current and be a guy i identify a

1198
01:25:36,591 --> 01:25:44,451
little more um like you than i do like as a developer and as a um as a uh as a web3 guy

1199
01:25:44,451 --> 01:25:51,271
and so it's kind of fun to go go be there and be the guy yeah yeah and paul just to cast my sniff

1200
01:25:51,271 --> 01:25:56,271
it out, touch it. To cast my vote for you going, Paul, I'll just say I'm Noster Pilled now. You

1201
01:25:56,271 --> 01:26:01,571
know, we talked to Max Hillebrand and that got me there ideologically, but to see just how vibrant

1202
01:26:01,571 --> 01:26:06,231
you are and, you know, it's obviously the work that you're doing is feeding back into your life.

1203
01:26:06,331 --> 01:26:11,971
So I'm going to get on Noster before our next week's conversation. We're going to read

1204
01:26:11,971 --> 01:26:17,931
Heidegger's The Question Concerning Technology. And he kind of talks about that, about how our

1205
01:26:17,931 --> 01:26:22,071
tools and the way we interface with technology shapes our outlook and reveals the world to

1206
01:26:22,071 --> 01:26:23,131
us in a specific way.

1207
01:26:23,431 --> 01:26:24,671
And I see that in you.

1208
01:26:24,671 --> 01:26:36,443
And man if you went to the network state to reveal that to the people there you know like you are right here So appreciate so much your your interest your generosity to have talking with us man I really appreciate them

1209
01:26:37,303 --> 01:26:37,623
Yeah.

1210
01:26:37,643 --> 01:26:38,343
Thanks for saying that, man.

1211
01:26:38,363 --> 01:26:38,803
It means a lot.

1212
01:26:39,183 --> 01:26:41,503
And send me that article and then let me know when you get on the show.

1213
01:26:41,563 --> 01:26:42,303
Yeah, definitely.

1214
01:26:42,463 --> 01:26:42,783
Definitely.

1215
01:26:43,043 --> 01:26:43,283
Nice.

1216
01:26:43,603 --> 01:26:46,203
That's me holding myself accountable to the internet right there.

1217
01:26:46,523 --> 01:26:48,463
So yeah, you're taking the Paul approach.

1218
01:26:48,703 --> 01:26:52,083
All right, Paul, we're going to, we're going to let you get back to your world.

1219
01:26:52,183 --> 01:26:56,143
But before we do parting shots, final shot across the bow, like what, what do you want

1220
01:26:56,143 --> 01:27:03,063
to say to the world, the 42 people that occasionally listen to our podcast that are extremely exuberant

1221
01:27:03,063 --> 01:27:08,343
about what they're going to hear this deep into the podcast. Yeah, who's still here? But just

1222
01:27:08,343 --> 01:27:15,623
Pura Vida means pure life. It's Costa Rica's like little motto. And I just love it. That's great

1223
01:27:15,623 --> 01:27:19,603
software to run in your head. Something great happens Pura Vida, you know, great. Something

1224
01:27:19,603 --> 01:27:24,783
terrible happens Pura Vida, it'll pass. So have a good one. Pura Vida, thanks for listening.

1225
01:27:24,783 --> 01:27:28,443
come on Noster tag me out Paul in the jungle and I'll send you some Bitcoin

1226
01:27:28,443 --> 01:27:35,403
Paul in the jungle you are the man thank you for joining us on Bitcoin study sessions we really

1227
01:27:35,403 --> 01:27:36,003
appreciate it man