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really honored to have with us. What I would kind of refer to as one of the more kind,

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optimistic thinkers in the Bitcoin universe and the intentional way that he has chosen to navigate

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the chaotic world that we're living in as the fiat system unravels and we exit a world of

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rules for a world of freedom. This is Jeff Booth, and he wrote the book The Price of Tomorrow,

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which we reviewed recently on the podcast here. And Jeff, we're honored to have,

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really honored to have you with us. And the question that I wanted to begin with was,

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you talked about love and belonging being superordinate to basically everything. And

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the experience of life being in-depth tied to that and how we are entering this time of chaos

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that is not due to Bitcoin upsetting the system. It's simply due to people experiencing freedom

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for the first time in 5,000 years of civilization. First freedom in markets where we have Bitcoin as

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the first free market that's ever existed, but freedom in other aspects of life as well.

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And that the chaos ensues really from people wanting to have that tie to the system. They

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want to be told what to do. They want those rules. And I think you elucidate it so beautifully. So I

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guess I just kind of want to throw it to you and ask you, can you kind of walk us through

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how you came to this understanding and what you what you feel like the

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inserting of freedom into a unfree world um does to humanity and consciousness as as we try to

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navigate this this wide open space that we've never seen before just that just

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the next question will be three words just go into that multi-complex there so each of these

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frameworks i would say it would be different frameworks um and they're each each one of those

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frameworks is almost big enough to comprise an entire show an entire life being serious they

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because because these these things that we're hearing or some of these things will depending

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where you are in your journey will hit differently they they may might be true but it's your

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understanding of of them um that uh myth is it really shapes it so so i like to i i like to

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find the bottom of what i'm talking about so what's what's true for sure and then pose that as

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if that's true what else is uh what else could we say what do you expect to see

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um and and so you just gave a number of them right in the same and when you asked the question

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and oh let's start with the first one um the uh the love and love and belonging um so

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as far as i can tell um that's one of those things that that i kind of came up with that said

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I believe love and belonging is

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superordinate to everything else

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that we act

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in

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a way to try to get love and belonging

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and most times

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because of that

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we don't see the things we do

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to actually push it away

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and so if I use

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examples to be

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able to see that I'd be a few examples

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to say if that's true in other people

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then it must be true in me too

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um and so i try to find things that are that are that are first true and then and then they would

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if if it's in all people and it would have to be true in me to be able to help me

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soften an edge and some are finding a lot deeper so one of the examples i often give in love and

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belonging is kind of that victim analogy and somebody um somebody trying whether they had

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pain as a child, whether they encoded pain as a child, whatever happened, that somehow

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by being a victim, everybody raced to them and showed them exactly what they wanted.

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And then because that was hard, because they always acted that way, those same people move

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away and it's too hard to be around that person.

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And so that typical thing is then they would double down and create more drama to get everybody

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to come back. And so you can see when I talk about that, you can see it in probably somebody

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you know, maybe you, if somebody's listening to this, but it's really hard to face, right,

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that it's me creating the world instead of somebody else creating the world to me.

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So in each of these things, by the way, if you use that exact same victim analogy and you say

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the person who wants to be a billionaire so much

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that they lose their family.

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Because they're constantly working to try to make that.

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It's all-consuming.

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And they're telling themselves the whole time I'm doing it for my family.

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And then as the family pushes away, it feels like loss.

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And they move to what gives them the love and belonging.

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more people to tell them how great they are.

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And so you see this, and I just gave a couple examples,

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but what got me interested in it,

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and what wanted me going deeper in it,

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is watching these examples of different people

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all over my life of different,

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I call it the sign that they had on their forehead

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that was pushing everything away that they wanted,

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that they were unaware of it.

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You can see people doing Bitcoin.

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You can see they're so concerned with Bitcoin and how tight they are, Bitcoin, that they want to push away everyone else in their life, right?

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Which they can't understand.

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Why are these people not around me anymore, right?

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They think it's everyone else.

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And sometimes that comes from needing to show up more intelligence and so on.

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Or it's needing to.

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So it's everywhere.

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And it just is.

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And a different way of looking at it is we look at our own photo first.

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We look at our own photo and a group picture first.

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We're so consumed how we show up, who we are in our own movie.

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Right. That it kind of shows that, that, and then I, then the irony of what I just said, the irony is we're so consumed with our own movie, but then most of the world, most of the time we're talking about other people. Why, why did they do what they were doing? Completely unaware of the actions that we, that we do to push people away.

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so if it looks like that everywhere

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and love and belonging

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if love and belonging were superordinate to everything else

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I would expect it to look like that everywhere

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and then I would also have to face that

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anywhere in my life that I wasn't getting what I wanted

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would have to be me too

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and that's how I found different things

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to be able to unlock

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to be able to take me to a different level.

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And so some of those things are hard to find

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because you want to believe all the good things

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that people tell you about yourself.

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And as soon as something's negative,

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that can't be me.

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Everyone else says the great things about me.

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So that other thing has to be someone else.

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Yeah.

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To go down, like, even, like, maybe below that bottom,

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that movie that we're generating for ourself

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or that consciousness that wants to put us at the center of a movie,

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do you think that that's an evolved human capacity that we have evolved

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to help us get along as a social species?

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Or maybe and is it fueled by an attention economy

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with the new forms of social media we have?

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I think it's evolved.

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I think that in part, we're social creatures.

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We get more done, even if you just said what the free market is.

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It's a divisional language to get more done based on trust and based on belonging to a group and group bias.

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And so as we evolved, I suspect that there's a part of that that gave a bias for people who cooperated.

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or people who, and so our cooperation

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gave a bias to some fitness function and survival

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that allowed that to happen,

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and we didn't see that it happened.

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Yeah, and so there's this idea of evolutionary mismatch.

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We were reading a book by Dr. David Sampson

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called Our Tribal Future,

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and the idea of evolutionary mismatch is

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you evolve a trait in a certain environment

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but then the environment changes and you still have that evolved trait and you're applying it

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in a new realm so his example is like turtles a type of sea turtle evolved to go out to the sea

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when they hatch out of their egg according to the moonlight of the sunlight glinting on the sea

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but now there's beach houses that have bright lights and so the turtles go inland and die

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do you think that there's if this is an evolved capacity is there some toxic dynamic in the

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current environment that is leading it to have a negative effect whereas as you know it evolved to

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help us maybe cooperate but is the current environment a mismatch from the environment

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in which we develop that capacity or trade and that's a huge question the simple answer is yes

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but it but it would have to be the simple answer tied to something totally different right that

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tied to when I say the natural state of the free market is deflation.

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And that means inside that system, we should, if we were cooperating,

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it means all prices have to fall forever inside that system.

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But we've never lived in that system.

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We've lived in a zero-sum game.

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So that's different, but very connected to what you just said.

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So if we've always lived in a zero-sum game where we are easily manipulated, and if the science of consciousness and the science of how to understand how people think and make decisions,

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where equally you can now really understand and coordinate and control those people

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from that science, from that centralized thing,

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then from that centralized entity, you would expect everything to constantly do that

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and prey upon your weaknesses.

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But you wouldn't see them because you would be making decisions within that water,

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which is a fish know what water is and so all of your thoughts would be inside of there

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and if remember i said the sign on the foregad if this is how then then you would be so easy

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co-opted by that system and you would think it was somebody else you would it would fit set up a

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perfect environment to program you in service of a system that was controlling you.

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And all of your work inside of that system would be furthering the programming.

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And this system, I don't know, is this just the fiat money system?

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Is it crony capitalism?

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Or is this a more intentionally constructed system?

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by marketers who want to sell us something?

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Or what is the system, I guess, broadly speaking?

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So that's why I start with the natural state of the free market is deflation, right?

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Yeah.

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Because what you just did and nodded your head, you know something's true.

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But what does that say?

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So you have to say it hundreds of times to yourself because it's not just knowing it.

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it's it's it's internalizing it and then and then acting within it right because if you know

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something but all of your energy is in the other system spending in the other system

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then you know the system that we've never lived in that is true for sure right you would you would

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expect all of the other things all of your time in the other system to be capturing you more

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and so so people nod their head like it uh you've heard me say this on every podcast every speech

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and people do what exactly what you're doing nod your head and then they ask what price in u.s

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dollars and then they ask and then they yell at the existing system and they what what about those

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people what about those bankers those the the rothschilds or all of this it has to look like

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that. Whether it's evil in disguise or not, it doesn't matter. It just is. But your actions within

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that system further. So the question isn't what would it look like? Who would they look like? You

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are they. The power that comes to that system is from you. And until we make the decision,

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each of us make the decision to stop to to see it for what it is instead of make it about

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those those because every fight within that system strengthens it

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yeah yeah it's it's so radically simple like it's so crazy simple

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but but it's why that this is why it's so hard because because because we've we've grown up our

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parents grew up, their grandparents grew up, over and over and over.

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We've never seen what it would be like to live in a global free market.

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We don't have pattern recognition for it.

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And remember, and that's why it's connected to that love and belonging.

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We want to matter in that other system.

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If we can get a little bit more money and matter more to the other.

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Because there's so much expert bias.

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recency but there's so many biases in our decisions that we're inside the system trying

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to matter more within it within a zero-sum game and you can't matter more in a zero-sum game

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right or from that system you could you would look really popular to the people you had more money

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from that were trying to escape poverty right or if you're tucker carlson or somebody else

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you're yelling at that system and telling people the reason why it looks like this you

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keep hundreds of credibility right because all of those people were looking for an out

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you would still be in the system trapping all of your time and energy give yeah giving

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fighting the system gives it the energy that it needs to persist kind of in your own mind and

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your own mind is forming the reality that you're living in. You talked about in the book,

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you talked about the visualization of folding the piece of paper 50 times in order for us to

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help understand the power of exponentials in that if I take a piece of paper and I fold it 50 times,

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it reaches nearly to the sun. And so the flip side of that, in the conversation with Daniela.io

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that I listened to, you gave the example, you know, we talked about how you're not only the sum

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of what you've experienced, but also there were two parents and there were four grandparents and

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there were eight great-grandparents and so on. And so it's a deflationary collapse of experiences

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throughout generations into you that carries, I guess, both, we focus, I think, more on the trauma,

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but it also carries the victories and the optimism of those previous generations all

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exponentially collapsed into one person. And so to get back to the second half of my chapter long

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question that I opened this with was the freedom to, we are now experiencing freedom for the first

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time. And we're experiencing freedom in capital markets through Bitcoin. But there comes behind

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that because of the deflationary abundance of technology routed through AI and Bitcoin and

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robotics and the sum of all the technology. That freedom expands not just from our capital

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experience, but also from our lived experience. And Grant had a great quote from Marx, I think,

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do you have that? He wanted to, because we're curious about where do we go with this freedom?

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And, you know, what does this post-economy or post-zero-sum game world look like?

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Yeah. Unless you want to react to that.

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I didn't answer that before you go to the question.

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Yes. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So what I recently described, where we are moving to,

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versus what I described in Love and Belonging,

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most people still measuring that from the existing system,

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they are not free.

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They don't have freedom.

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They might have more freedom because today they have more money

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than the next person.

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But they are in a system that is going to be a totalitarian

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control system. And they are most, if they're giving their energy to that system, they are not

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free. And until we're all free, nobody's really free. Because we've always lived in this control

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system, and it's quite likely that most people are going to get co-opted by it. Most Bitcoiners

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are going to sell back to a piece of paper. And it's going to centralize, that's going to

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centralized further. What I'm talking about is, and in some countries, we don't see this because

224
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we've never seen it. We believed we were free in the U.S. or Canada, but that control system was a

225
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zero-sum game that had to come from the losses from somewhere else. And then there had to be

226
00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:23,020
three-letter agencies that would go in and put in the dictator to ensure that those people never

227
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rose up out of freedom because that's what funded us we were at the top they were at the bottom

228
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i sat down with uh um the uh um the writer john perkins who wrote confessions of an economic hit

229
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man i sat with him for uh for three hours over dinner a couple about a month ago and he said

230
00:20:47,180 --> 00:20:48,520
that literally he went in,

231
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,660
bags of money in one hand,

232
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for the dictator and all their family and friends and cronies,

233
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done in the other.

234
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Choose.

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That's what the world's looked like.

236
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:04,360
It's always looked like that,

237
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because it had to look like that from the zero-sum game.

238
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When we're talking about freedom right now,

239
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and people think they have freedom of speech and everything else,

240
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:14,740
because they've had it.

241
00:21:14,740 --> 00:21:17,480
It came from somebody else losing theirs.

242
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,640
If we don't operate in Bitcoin,

243
00:21:22,340 --> 00:21:25,800
if you don't operate in Bitcoin and develop privacy tech on top

244
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:31,260
and spend your money in Bitcoin and advocate for that

245
00:21:31,260 --> 00:21:35,240
and building on top of it, you will be captured.

246
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,180
And it only matters how many people do that.

247
00:21:40,180 --> 00:21:51,340
we we have never been free and it's consolidating faster than people realize because the exponential

248
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trend that i talked about has to mean exponential manipulation exponential centralization exponential

249
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:06,100
control at the same rate and so right now you see people talking about privacy coins

250
00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:09,720
and going into all this nonsense

251
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,300
and talking about this nonsense

252
00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:16,840
because they don't know there is a protocol

253
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,720
that they can be free of.

254
00:22:20,420 --> 00:22:23,940
So the vast majority of Bitcoiners

255
00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:26,160
are going to get captured.

256
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,680
And so freedom so far in this discussion

257
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,880
is defined as freedom to transact

258
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,740
and freedom of certain political rights

259
00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:45,400
like expression, maybe democratic involvement.

260
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:50,720
Is it, I guess, is your definition of freedom here

261
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,660
the free market which you know has not existed

262
00:22:53,660 --> 00:22:58,600
or what does freedom look like in its pure form

263
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,520
right now if there are pockets of it

264
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,500
or what will it look like if it is instantiated in the future?

265
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:08,660
So this is actually why I think I'm really glad, and keep pushing here, by the way,

266
00:23:09,020 --> 00:23:19,000
and let's keep on pushing, because sometimes you'll say a word that is your idea of freedom like democracy.

267
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,000
Yeah.

268
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:20,300
Right.

269
00:23:21,820 --> 00:23:28,560
How could your version of democracy work that you believe you live in

270
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:36,680
if most of your money is stolen from an unnatural tax that you don't have a vote in

271
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,560
because you don't have a vote in inflation right and remember inflation isn't from zero it's from

272
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:49,680
the productivity rate of the world which would be way negative so most of the economic decisions

273
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:55,480
which drive your life you don't have a vote in most of the economic decisions that create

274
00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:07,355
to the three agencies They create all the power that creates the centralization of media technology farming agriculture medical

275
00:24:08,135 --> 00:24:14,075
All of that bullshit is stolen from you,

276
00:24:14,395 --> 00:24:15,875
concentrated in the monopolies,

277
00:24:16,655 --> 00:24:18,495
that then you regurgitate into it

278
00:24:18,495 --> 00:24:19,535
and then say democracy.

279
00:24:21,455 --> 00:24:23,695
We've never lived in a true democracy.

280
00:24:23,695 --> 00:24:31,855
we don't have a and with the word we've never lived in true capitalism if the natural state

281
00:24:31,855 --> 00:24:38,375
of the free market has always been deflation and we've never seen it so and i don't mind and i don't

282
00:24:38,375 --> 00:24:47,415
mean to be argumentative but i want to really pinpoint why these words you can't understand

283
00:24:47,415 --> 00:24:52,515
them because they have a meaning that meaning for each of us is describing a different meaning that

284
00:24:52,515 --> 00:24:53,675
doesn't exist.

285
00:24:54,975 --> 00:24:55,455
Yes.

286
00:24:56,255 --> 00:24:57,675
It's complete make-believe.

287
00:24:58,315 --> 00:24:59,555
It's a zero-sum game

288
00:24:59,555 --> 00:25:02,055
that had to steal from somebody else.

289
00:25:02,675 --> 00:25:03,655
And if we made believe

290
00:25:03,655 --> 00:25:04,855
and we put our head in the sand

291
00:25:04,855 --> 00:25:06,395
that it was stealing from somebody else,

292
00:25:06,935 --> 00:25:09,795
we could just keep on rolling in that game.

293
00:25:10,055 --> 00:25:11,415
But it's never been the free market.

294
00:25:13,895 --> 00:25:15,995
So now we're the free market.

295
00:25:16,295 --> 00:25:17,555
So what is the free market?

296
00:25:18,875 --> 00:25:20,135
What is the free market?

297
00:25:20,655 --> 00:25:22,435
That's probably a better way into this.

298
00:25:22,515 --> 00:25:30,035
yes the free market is the only way you could get paid more than than others is by creating more

299
00:25:30,035 --> 00:25:38,275
value for them only possible way and and so and then when you do you create margin

300
00:25:38,275 --> 00:25:44,455
that other people see your margin and they want to compete on your bar they want to take your margin

301
00:25:44,455 --> 00:25:50,135
and compete more of it and give more value to others so every single thing you do in the free

302
00:25:50,135 --> 00:25:57,375
market has to benefit all of society. And if you do something really special for all of society,

303
00:25:57,375 --> 00:26:02,475
you get paid more for a while until people do something more special than you.

304
00:26:04,515 --> 00:26:11,775
In that world, there couldn't be a monopoly. It's impossible. In that world, as you added

305
00:26:11,775 --> 00:26:17,955
more minds to try to compete to serve others, you have faster abundance.

306
00:26:18,855 --> 00:26:20,655
Not, there's never going to be a problem.

307
00:26:21,835 --> 00:26:26,495
Just all problems create more opportunity to solve problems for society.

308
00:26:30,095 --> 00:26:38,415
I guess my question, though, then, is if freedom in the free market is defined as that ability

309
00:26:38,415 --> 00:26:44,895
to contribute and then to be rewarded in relation to the value that other people find in your

310
00:26:44,895 --> 00:26:52,055
contribution but brass tacks what everybody cares about is belonging and love won't some people get

311
00:26:52,055 --> 00:26:57,595
less belonging and love in the free market system if they don't have something to contribute that

312
00:26:57,595 --> 00:27:03,275
others find of value so that's why so so now okay now let's say you don't have a job right

313
00:27:03,275 --> 00:27:11,595
first I'm just going to qualify something. I believe every single human being has genius in

314
00:27:11,595 --> 00:27:18,175
them. And that genius doesn't have to be my genius. The mosaic of who we are all connected

315
00:27:18,175 --> 00:27:26,675
is the genius in each of us, that fractal showing up. But what if you didn't have a job and everyone

316
00:27:26,675 --> 00:27:31,875
else's work was making things more abundant for you and you didn't need a job and you were just

317
00:27:31,875 --> 00:27:39,315
getting wealthier when i say wealthier i mean you could have one dollar and that one dollar would

318
00:27:39,315 --> 00:27:44,955
increase in value forever for forever and when i say one dollar in this case it wouldn't in a dollar

319
00:27:44,955 --> 00:27:55,695
but let's say 100 satoshis it would increase in value forever then the genius that you were

320
00:27:55,695 --> 00:28:02,615
would find something even if you were making one satoshi right but you wouldn't need to make more

321
00:28:02,615 --> 00:28:09,135
and more because your currency was being devalued your time would be increasing forever your value

322
00:28:09,135 --> 00:28:14,675
to society would be increasing forever whether or not you contributed you would be you'd be

323
00:28:14,675 --> 00:28:21,735
benefiting from the global competition trying to provide value for you as would every other person

324
00:28:21,735 --> 00:28:22,315
on the planet.

325
00:28:24,355 --> 00:28:24,995
Yeah.

326
00:28:25,175 --> 00:28:28,355
So I think what I'm interpreting you saying

327
00:28:28,355 --> 00:28:31,855
is that love and belonging

328
00:28:31,855 --> 00:28:33,275
superordinate to all

329
00:28:33,275 --> 00:28:36,595
and that with freedom,

330
00:28:37,095 --> 00:28:41,275
each individual will experience

331
00:28:41,275 --> 00:28:43,735
an opportunity to discover

332
00:28:43,735 --> 00:28:46,215
the mosaic of genius

333
00:28:46,215 --> 00:28:48,175
that exists within them

334
00:28:48,175 --> 00:28:50,275
and drive them into

335
00:28:51,735 --> 00:29:00,135
to express that genius in a way that contributes to the love and belonging of the world.

336
00:29:00,135 --> 00:29:05,295
Or serves society in whatever way they say.

337
00:29:05,615 --> 00:29:10,135
Because now to argue the opposite, argue the system we're in,

338
00:29:10,635 --> 00:29:16,535
wouldn't the system we're in have to try to divide you from that love and belonging,

339
00:29:16,775 --> 00:29:19,755
to use that to be able to say that it's somebody else's fault,

340
00:29:19,755 --> 00:29:22,115
to be able to continue to control you?

341
00:29:23,695 --> 00:29:26,555
Wouldn't that system have to do that more and more and more

342
00:29:26,555 --> 00:29:28,355
as it had tried to agree?

343
00:29:28,595 --> 00:29:31,055
Because you weren't making decisions on a free market.

344
00:29:32,675 --> 00:29:35,775
You were making decisions on a manipulated market

345
00:29:35,775 --> 00:29:38,115
and those in control of the decisions would...

346
00:29:38,675 --> 00:29:40,315
Most people would be caught in it,

347
00:29:40,335 --> 00:29:42,935
not even know that they're feeding, contributing to it.

348
00:29:43,935 --> 00:29:47,115
And so it would have to be tied into our consciousness

349
00:29:47,115 --> 00:29:49,395
because it's just based on a system

350
00:29:49,395 --> 00:29:51,815
which is ultimately based on theft.

351
00:29:53,335 --> 00:29:53,435
Yeah.

352
00:29:54,575 --> 00:29:58,515
And so those would have to,

353
00:29:58,755 --> 00:30:01,555
they'd have to be so diametrically opposed.

354
00:30:02,955 --> 00:30:06,535
And you'd face a choice at some point,

355
00:30:06,615 --> 00:30:08,775
the cognitive dissonance of trying to mesh

356
00:30:08,775 --> 00:30:11,535
two different systems that couldn't be compatible together.

357
00:30:12,075 --> 00:30:14,195
The cognitive dissonance that you would face

358
00:30:14,195 --> 00:30:16,795
in trying to, even what's happening,

359
00:30:16,795 --> 00:30:22,695
and by the way and i love these conversations i love what you're doing because because this would

360
00:30:22,695 --> 00:30:29,295
be really hard for every single person to win because most of your decisions are made from the

361
00:30:29,295 --> 00:30:40,075
other the other system they'd have to be to catch yourself and realize and say it could like of

362
00:30:40,075 --> 00:30:45,515
course it looks like that from where i'm making most of the decisions now my choice is do i move

363
00:30:45,515 --> 00:30:49,095
my time and energy to the new system and how much of my time and energy.

364
00:30:51,495 --> 00:31:00,755
Yeah, you talked in an interview about checking yourself, using your framework to check yourself

365
00:31:00,755 --> 00:31:09,075
and realizing that there was a point where you were in the Bitcoin world, but still spending

366
00:31:09,075 --> 00:31:14,595
most of your energy in the fiat world. And you made the active decision to move that.

367
00:31:15,515 --> 00:31:29,075
And it sounds like you are very well versed in the corruption model, in the taking, the hating, the exclusion, and very aware of that.

368
00:31:30,295 --> 00:31:38,855
And so what did it look like functionally for you to move yourself out of that fiat system?

369
00:31:38,855 --> 00:31:44,315
Was it just the mindset of I'm not a victim or what?

370
00:31:44,375 --> 00:31:44,495
Yeah.

371
00:31:44,535 --> 00:31:48,515
What does that look like to you when you moved all in on Bitcoin?

372
00:31:48,675 --> 00:31:48,775
Yeah.

373
00:31:48,915 --> 00:31:51,555
And I'm going to caveat this.

374
00:31:51,715 --> 00:31:59,695
I try even today to spend as much possible energy in Bitcoin as I can and spend in Bitcoin as much as I can.

375
00:31:59,815 --> 00:32:02,715
I still today, I bought a boat recently.

376
00:32:03,395 --> 00:32:04,375
Boat wouldn't take Bitcoin.

377
00:32:04,695 --> 00:32:06,255
The boat owner wouldn't take Bitcoin.

378
00:32:06,255 --> 00:32:07,855
So I bought in fear.

379
00:32:07,855 --> 00:32:13,055
But I'm constantly thinking how to move more time and energy.

380
00:32:13,995 --> 00:32:21,055
And I get sometimes, it doesn't matter to me what somebody else's perception of me is.

381
00:32:21,535 --> 00:32:26,835
And I understand and empathize with their perception because their perception is coming from their own reality.

382
00:32:27,395 --> 00:32:32,655
So I get sometimes, oh, easy for you to make that choice because you've always had money.

383
00:32:33,595 --> 00:32:36,895
And so let's investigate that specific example.

384
00:32:36,895 --> 00:32:46,575
Well, you know, in my book, in 2017, I round-tripped my own company, went from $500 million value, and I walked away with zero.

385
00:32:47,035 --> 00:32:51,935
Not only zero, I had sold our family house into that, and I couldn't pay rent at the end of the month.

386
00:32:51,935 --> 00:32:54,355
And so we were literally zero.

387
00:32:55,255 --> 00:33:00,975
And I came away from that experience realizing I had everything I could ever want at zero.

388
00:33:01,435 --> 00:33:04,475
I had still had my family, still had all my relationships, had my integrity.

389
00:33:04,475 --> 00:33:06,995
I had everything I could ever want at zero.

390
00:33:08,435 --> 00:33:11,155
And so it was easy to start again.

391
00:33:11,995 --> 00:33:16,155
But we started again late, late 2017,

392
00:33:16,935 --> 00:33:24,215
and then started and built back and did very well.

393
00:33:26,095 --> 00:33:33,315
So when I made a decision in 2021 to stop all of the boards,

394
00:33:33,315 --> 00:33:38,595
stop everything else I was on and move into Bitcoin and create ego death. That decision

395
00:33:38,595 --> 00:33:44,055
looked like this with my wife. Still remembering your billing back, your sugar, it said, we're not

396
00:33:44,055 --> 00:33:53,195
going to make anything for the next year, at least. But I'm going to try to create ego death.

397
00:33:55,695 --> 00:34:02,015
And assuming it works and we'll make money later on, but I have to move my time

398
00:34:02,015 --> 00:34:03,515
into the system.

399
00:34:05,195 --> 00:34:07,395
And so we're going to just put a box

400
00:34:07,395 --> 00:34:08,495
and we're going to live on

401
00:34:08,495 --> 00:34:10,455
many savings that we've had.

402
00:34:10,875 --> 00:34:11,915
Might go to zero again.

403
00:34:13,135 --> 00:34:14,655
But I have to do this.

404
00:34:15,535 --> 00:34:18,995
So, and I'm not looking for simply

405
00:34:18,995 --> 00:34:21,395
I made the right decision for me.

406
00:34:21,395 --> 00:34:23,195
And I don't want to also say,

407
00:34:23,875 --> 00:34:25,615
Janion, they need to make the decision

408
00:34:25,615 --> 00:34:26,615
because I made the decision.

409
00:34:26,915 --> 00:34:28,615
Each person needs to make the decision

410
00:34:28,615 --> 00:34:30,715
in their own time what it looks like.

411
00:34:30,715 --> 00:34:39,455
I couldn't live with the cognitive dissonance of knowing that I wasn't in unity with who I was.

412
00:34:40,395 --> 00:34:46,015
And I had, so that was more pain than any money I could make.

413
00:34:46,015 --> 00:34:54,995
so there's going to be a certain subset of the population that regardless of whatever whatever

414
00:34:54,995 --> 00:35:02,955
particular genius they have as like an aspect of their dignity or some universal aspect of them as

415
00:35:02,955 --> 00:35:09,235
humans they're going to be able to contribute far less for example a person with like muscular

416
00:35:09,235 --> 00:35:13,855
dystrophy duchenne muscular dystrophy they're born in a state where they're always going to be

417
00:35:13,855 --> 00:35:18,635
in a power wheelchair. They're always going to require immense amounts of technology that others

418
00:35:18,635 --> 00:35:23,695
provide to them to maintain their bodily function, to enable them to do things, going to need personal

419
00:35:23,695 --> 00:35:30,415
care from other humans to bathe them, toilet them, things like that. And so for the critic of the

420
00:35:30,415 --> 00:35:35,675
free market system, they're going to say that that type of person is not going to get the love and

421
00:35:35,675 --> 00:35:42,115
belonging that they need. A person like Jeff Booth, who is able to create companies, can, but a person

422
00:35:42,115 --> 00:35:49,055
who is not able to, and in fact, is very profoundly disabled, is going to require maintenance from

423
00:35:49,055 --> 00:35:54,155
others, whether in the form of pure charity or in the form of the state providing something.

424
00:35:54,895 --> 00:36:01,075
And so I guess where, how is that person on the free market, if love and belonging is the ideal

425
00:36:01,075 --> 00:36:06,055
or superordinate state that justifies the system, how does it justify their position within that

426
00:36:06,055 --> 00:36:10,555
system? So keep in mind, I didn't say love and belonging justifies the system. I said the free

427
00:36:10,555 --> 00:36:17,755
market in the natural state of the free market is deflation right okay that's true how we show up

428
00:36:17,755 --> 00:36:23,635
i've always showed up as love and belonging and so so what so if the natural state of the free

429
00:36:23,635 --> 00:36:31,375
market is deflation and the opposite system is a credit-based system by which money is lent into

430
00:36:31,375 --> 00:36:38,955
existence with an interest rate it means you built in um an interest rate that must expand forever

431
00:36:38,955 --> 00:36:41,495
on money that didn't exist.

432
00:36:41,795 --> 00:36:43,815
So you're built in essentially theft

433
00:36:43,815 --> 00:36:45,835
to the protocol layer of humanity.

434
00:36:47,495 --> 00:36:50,495
So instead of asking how this would work

435
00:36:50,495 --> 00:36:52,095
if you had a system of honesty

436
00:36:52,095 --> 00:36:57,375
where you had to provide more value to society,

437
00:36:58,255 --> 00:36:59,915
wouldn't you want to first explore

438
00:36:59,915 --> 00:37:02,055
what it would look like in a system

439
00:37:02,055 --> 00:37:05,495
where you created independence from everywhere,

440
00:37:06,235 --> 00:37:07,835
created victims everywhere

441
00:37:07,835 --> 00:37:17,695
from a system that had to control you. So even the question itself is so crazy. And I'm sorry,

442
00:37:17,855 --> 00:37:25,195
but it's because it perceives that you've lived in a system that is honest. And what would that

443
00:37:25,195 --> 00:37:31,355
dishonest system have you believe about those other people or yourself that you couldn't have

444
00:37:31,355 --> 00:37:38,015
agency you couldn't provide because the state had to look after you, right? And how could you

445
00:37:38,015 --> 00:37:44,475
be convinced from that? It's a dishonest system. It comes into existence completely dishonest.

446
00:37:45,275 --> 00:37:53,015
And so I know who I am, right? And if I've created more wealth or more of this,

447
00:37:53,015 --> 00:37:57,255
then I am far more likely to give back.

448
00:37:59,275 --> 00:38:04,535
And instead of give back because I had a tax incentive to give back,

449
00:38:04,775 --> 00:38:09,055
to bury my head in the sand, that I'm at the top of a system of theft.

450
00:38:12,335 --> 00:38:12,975
Yeah.

451
00:38:13,755 --> 00:38:17,295
I want to change direction real quick.

452
00:38:17,295 --> 00:38:25,935
And you have said that Bitcoin eats all the other currencies.

453
00:38:26,355 --> 00:38:28,075
And I believe that as well.

454
00:38:28,415 --> 00:38:42,655
But there are a lot of people with very large platforms, even people like Michael Saylor, who have talked about the dollar being able to exist kind of side by side with Bitcoin.

455
00:38:42,655 --> 00:38:50,275
the rise of stable coins in the last few years becoming more and more prominent, which I,

456
00:38:51,135 --> 00:38:56,155
like when I think of stable coins, I just think of them as a shorter term way to steal money as

457
00:38:56,155 --> 00:39:02,415
a, it's like a momentary bond that, that takes away your opportunity instead of a time sensitive

458
00:39:02,415 --> 00:39:14,635
one. But can you, I guess, can you just sort of solidify that argument, which I do believe is true,

459
00:39:14,715 --> 00:39:22,655
but I want to hear it from you, that Bitcoin takes over all the currencies and kind of address

460
00:39:22,655 --> 00:39:27,835
stable coins as well. And if they have a role to play in that, or if they are just a blip in time,

461
00:39:27,835 --> 00:39:31,635
where there is an extractive economy that's taking advantage.

462
00:39:32,415 --> 00:39:37,955
Yeah, so Patriot Act is the opposite of the Patriot.

463
00:39:38,595 --> 00:39:45,115
The Inflation Reduction Act is the opposite of the Inflation Reduction Act.

464
00:39:45,435 --> 00:39:49,035
Stablecoin is opposite of a stablecoin.

465
00:39:49,755 --> 00:39:54,295
Stability comes from guaranteed losses against Bitcoin.

466
00:39:55,595 --> 00:39:57,475
It should be called a guaranteed loss coin.

467
00:39:58,715 --> 00:40:02,355
Yeah, but branding will suck a whole bunch of people in.

468
00:40:02,415 --> 00:40:10,755
this will happen um all of these things at the highest level of the natural savings free market

469
00:40:10,755 --> 00:40:21,115
is the deflation if if we now have an ability to to live in that energy completely and move our

470
00:40:21,115 --> 00:40:29,155
time into it but in the in previous 5 000 years we've never lived in that then you would expect

471
00:40:29,155 --> 00:40:32,175
people to get captured over and over and over again.

472
00:40:32,535 --> 00:40:35,535
And because it had to mean we were always captured.

473
00:40:37,075 --> 00:40:43,715
And you'd have to believe that just this system kind of imposing,

474
00:40:43,935 --> 00:40:50,175
Bitcoin imposing discipline would have to have all of these short-term actors,

475
00:40:51,195 --> 00:40:53,535
scams, nonsense.

476
00:40:53,855 --> 00:40:55,475
It would have to look like that.

477
00:40:55,475 --> 00:41:00,115
There's no possible way that it just magically, oh, we're going to just give up.

478
00:41:00,395 --> 00:41:02,535
Because why would it look like that?

479
00:41:02,535 --> 00:41:04,295
Because we've always been the other system.

480
00:41:04,755 --> 00:41:08,055
And I would virtually say most Bitcoiners are still in the other system.

481
00:41:08,915 --> 00:41:09,355
Yeah.

482
00:41:09,515 --> 00:41:09,695
Right.

483
00:41:10,755 --> 00:41:14,995
And so it would have to look like this and not, it might look like this.

484
00:41:15,075 --> 00:41:15,355
Yeah.

485
00:41:15,495 --> 00:41:15,655
Right.

486
00:41:15,795 --> 00:41:19,875
And then, and then every single person would choose through their proof of work.

487
00:41:21,755 --> 00:41:24,515
Which system that they wanted to participate in.

488
00:41:24,515 --> 00:41:36,235
And then a lot of those people, that's why I don't trust Verify, slay your heroes, people should say about me too, have you moved?

489
00:41:36,715 --> 00:41:43,055
Or which is like, have you been tapped on the shoulder and now you're telling a different story to society?

490
00:41:44,375 --> 00:41:50,435
One that captures, and so then that bar should be really high.

491
00:41:50,655 --> 00:41:54,475
I'm not saying attack everybody because you don't need to.

492
00:41:54,515 --> 00:42:18,615
You just watch. Just watch their actions. But you'd expect this to be a really chaotic transition, because the chaos was us. Chaos was us understanding something different, that we'd imposing something different, that we had to make a choice. And not just one choice, more and more and more choices, right, to be able to do this.

493
00:42:18,615 --> 00:42:25,595
And each time we made that choice for the owner system, we'd be abandoning the dishonest and more people would be joining us.

494
00:42:26,435 --> 00:42:37,875
And then there'd be a lot of, over here in the system that we've always lived in, there'd be this pull to, you got really rich, go back.

495
00:42:39,375 --> 00:42:43,695
And then, how do I aggregate more of this, more in fiat dollars?

496
00:42:44,095 --> 00:42:46,675
There'd be this pull.

497
00:42:46,675 --> 00:42:54,315
so now now for my you've probably heard me say this hundreds of times about protocol or winner

498
00:42:54,315 --> 00:43:01,295
take all and technologies or winner take most so the way people are looking at bitcoin right now

499
00:43:01,295 --> 00:43:07,515
is they're looking at the first layer of a protocol i'd say even bitcoiners that aren't

500
00:43:07,515 --> 00:43:14,735
using lightning or liquid or spark or they're looking at first layer of the protocol not as a

501
00:43:14,735 --> 00:43:17,975
as a medium of exchange, they're looking at it as a store of value.

502
00:43:19,675 --> 00:43:24,735
And that store of value in 16 years is still decentralized, secure energy.

503
00:43:25,635 --> 00:43:27,455
Backing it is growing exponentially.

504
00:43:28,535 --> 00:43:33,615
And so it's never 10 minutes, new block, 10 minutes, new block.

505
00:43:34,115 --> 00:43:38,115
It's imposing a change in the world.

506
00:43:39,135 --> 00:43:40,495
What would it look like over here?

507
00:43:40,495 --> 00:43:49,315
over here it would look like well a bunch of those bitcoiners got rich early on but this protocol

508
00:43:49,315 --> 00:43:56,955
can it can't scale right so one of those bitcoiners was fatale and so and he tried to

509
00:43:56,955 --> 00:44:04,815
change the protocol and and the consensus mechanism saw through it they saw through if you changed it

510
00:44:04,815 --> 00:44:11,075
it would it would centralize so we're not going to change it so what would he say to a world of

511
00:44:11,075 --> 00:44:18,295
people that were wanting to get rich from this world he would say i have a new scaling technology

512
00:44:18,295 --> 00:44:24,415
that bitcoin's old tech that i'm going to scale and it would just be a centralized blockchain that

513
00:44:24,415 --> 00:44:30,815
would be garbage right and because why would you need a blockchain if you were going to centralize

514
00:44:30,815 --> 00:44:36,975
you just use a database yeah but because most people wouldn't see that most people wouldn't

515
00:44:36,975 --> 00:44:45,415
see how protocol scale and layers you this this chaotic world and the entire monetary system was

516
00:44:45,415 --> 00:44:51,575
being broken where even without bitcoin it was hitting the end of end of a system that was

517
00:44:51,575 --> 00:44:58,395
going to need to be reset or go to war and reset it right even without bitcoin people would be

518
00:44:58,395 --> 00:45:04,435
stuck in chaos like crazy, and they would be looking to try to get out of it, and they

519
00:45:04,435 --> 00:45:14,075
would be totally susceptible to scams from that other system.

520
00:45:15,695 --> 00:45:17,095
It would look like that.

521
00:45:17,515 --> 00:45:21,375
And also, they'd never seen the protocol before.

522
00:45:21,375 --> 00:45:27,715
They saw the internet, but they thought the internet started in 89 instead of 1969.

523
00:45:28,395 --> 00:45:31,095
They didn't watch how protocols emerge.

524
00:45:32,435 --> 00:45:36,675
So other things you can garner from if that was the case.

525
00:45:37,375 --> 00:45:43,295
You can say there would be a whole bunch of ideas,

526
00:45:43,455 --> 00:45:46,515
there'd be a whole bunch of things that Bitcoin didn't do right now,

527
00:45:47,695 --> 00:45:49,855
but would on different layers,

528
00:45:50,915 --> 00:45:53,655
that a bunch of those people would want right now.

529
00:45:54,375 --> 00:45:57,295
And they would try to change the first protocol layer.

530
00:45:57,295 --> 00:45:58,855
They would try to make changes.

531
00:45:59,675 --> 00:46:06,415
You would also expect three-letter word agencies and everything else to infiltrate that to try to make changes.

532
00:46:06,615 --> 00:46:23,275
And the consensus mechanism and the people involved would constantly push back as new layers were built on top, providing more functionality that no one could see coming because they were trying to do something different.

533
00:46:24,515 --> 00:46:26,195
And so that's what's happening right now.

534
00:46:26,195 --> 00:46:29,635
that's why lightning, liquid

535
00:46:29,635 --> 00:46:31,295
or Xper, all of that

536
00:46:31,295 --> 00:46:33,035
is kind of a language

537
00:46:33,035 --> 00:46:34,815
interoperable language

538
00:46:34,815 --> 00:46:37,815
now you're moving value

539
00:46:37,815 --> 00:46:38,875
people to people

540
00:46:38,875 --> 00:46:40,835
on top of a protocol

541
00:46:40,835 --> 00:46:42,615
that's decentralized and secure

542
00:46:42,615 --> 00:46:45,555
part of the protocol that's decentralized and secure

543
00:46:45,555 --> 00:46:48,135
yes, it provides a little bit more

544
00:46:48,135 --> 00:46:51,155
through lightning nodes

545
00:46:51,155 --> 00:46:52,135
it provides a little bit more

546
00:46:52,135 --> 00:46:53,695
of centralization on the second layer

547
00:46:53,695 --> 00:46:55,375
or any of the

548
00:46:56,195 --> 00:46:58,435
to let Spark or Liquid or anything else.

549
00:46:58,855 --> 00:47:01,155
But if those are sufficiently decentralized

550
00:47:01,155 --> 00:47:03,175
in a whole bunch of different applications,

551
00:47:03,735 --> 00:47:07,235
and you have decentralized security on the bottom layer,

552
00:47:07,315 --> 00:47:09,775
you have a payment medium of exchange on the second

553
00:47:09,775 --> 00:47:13,315
that can scale along, along wider.

554
00:47:14,215 --> 00:47:15,495
And what about privacy?

555
00:47:16,575 --> 00:47:17,815
We need privacy.

556
00:47:19,395 --> 00:47:22,195
And so that's what Fediment is.

557
00:47:22,595 --> 00:47:25,015
That's what the cashew is as well.

558
00:47:25,015 --> 00:47:31,675
but my personal choice, now I'm an investor, so caveat, I'm an investor in Fedi.

559
00:47:32,375 --> 00:47:37,675
The Fediment protocol is something that had to be there

560
00:47:37,675 --> 00:47:43,675
before such time that this entire system was compromised,

561
00:47:43,995 --> 00:47:46,015
the centralized system was compromised.

562
00:47:46,655 --> 00:47:50,855
So now you have, and some of the things that we even designed in there,

563
00:47:51,335 --> 00:47:54,015
it goes open source January 4th,

564
00:47:54,015 --> 00:48:12,850
But even before that we had a poison pill that if anything happened to Fetty it was immediately open source because you had to move it for a certain And so the thinking through that in order to essentially build nodes at the next level

565
00:48:13,150 --> 00:48:19,730
when I say nodes, I mean us, that couldn't be compromised in order to provide privacy

566
00:48:19,730 --> 00:48:25,630
tech to the entire world, they could use this as a medium of exchange.

567
00:48:25,630 --> 00:48:29,170
it had to be there before the rest of the world centralized.

568
00:48:31,230 --> 00:48:33,390
Thank you so much for that response.

569
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:37,170
It's so much fun to watch you reason from the bottom back up

570
00:48:37,170 --> 00:48:40,910
and the way that you reason this would have to be the case if

571
00:48:40,910 --> 00:48:44,810
and then you're able to arrive back to explain the system as it is,

572
00:48:44,910 --> 00:48:49,210
the labels that we use, and also the technologies that people propose,

573
00:48:49,330 --> 00:48:50,350
the reasons they propose them.

574
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:53,130
So it's just I can see why.

575
00:48:53,130 --> 00:48:58,610
And, you know, you're on so many podcasts, but watching you reason in public each time is just so valuable.

576
00:48:58,730 --> 00:48:59,590
So thank you for doing that.

577
00:49:00,110 --> 00:49:00,470
Appreciate that.

578
00:49:00,770 --> 00:49:01,710
I've had to do it myself.

579
00:49:02,530 --> 00:49:15,430
Because when you're making, even when you're making investments, not just investments of money, but when you're making investments of your time, what would you, what does this, what's required here?

580
00:49:15,930 --> 00:49:21,690
And why are so many people are going to be confused by the existing system thinking that it's a token?

581
00:49:22,210 --> 00:49:22,650
Right.

582
00:49:22,650 --> 00:49:24,230
because they're going to be rich on it.

583
00:49:24,450 --> 00:49:25,970
What would that look like too?

584
00:49:26,070 --> 00:49:30,350
And how would it end back in tears in the other system?

585
00:49:31,170 --> 00:49:32,850
You had to do this.

586
00:49:33,850 --> 00:49:38,690
In the FEDA example, for three years,

587
00:49:38,910 --> 00:49:40,490
I've been on a weekly strategy call

588
00:49:40,490 --> 00:49:45,190
because that strategic effort

589
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:48,870
to develop something that's so robust for humanity

590
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:51,830
and has so many potential people

591
00:49:51,830 --> 00:49:53,110
wanting to try to kill it

592
00:49:53,110 --> 00:49:56,290
or had to

593
00:49:56,290 --> 00:49:57,410
had to exist

594
00:49:57,410 --> 00:49:58,350
and so you had to be

595
00:49:58,350 --> 00:49:59,310
really thoughtful

596
00:49:59,310 --> 00:49:59,950
in the way that

597
00:49:59,950 --> 00:50:00,710
that was designed

598
00:50:00,710 --> 00:50:03,090
and this is such a

599
00:50:03,090 --> 00:50:04,150
beautiful example

600
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:05,370
of your philosophy

601
00:50:05,370 --> 00:50:06,110
and action

602
00:50:06,110 --> 00:50:07,350
because you're

603
00:50:07,350 --> 00:50:09,490
investing in a protocol

604
00:50:09,490 --> 00:50:10,210
that's going to go

605
00:50:10,210 --> 00:50:10,950
open source

606
00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:12,670
so there's no

607
00:50:12,670 --> 00:50:13,890
IPO

608
00:50:13,890 --> 00:50:15,330
there's no

609
00:50:15,330 --> 00:50:16,950
big cash out

610
00:50:16,950 --> 00:50:17,610
there's no

611
00:50:17,610 --> 00:50:18,490
big sale

612
00:50:18,490 --> 00:50:19,270
and so

613
00:50:19,270 --> 00:50:21,430
you're

614
00:50:21,830 --> 00:50:31,650
You've been talking about how we have these words and we use these words as though we know what they mean, freedom and democracy, but we've never actually experienced them.

615
00:50:32,250 --> 00:50:50,110
And what I'm hearing is that perhaps we've never experienced the meaning of investment because what you're doing by investing in a protocol, it makes me think of like the chickens, the rotisserie chickens at Costco.

616
00:50:50,110 --> 00:50:58,670
It's the loss leader that they know that they're not going to make money on that, but it bolsters the value of their underlying product.

617
00:50:58,670 --> 00:51:21,990
And so would it be the case then that you look at investments now effectively as I'm not making money off the investment, but what I am doing is I am bolstering the system, the Bitcoin system, which therefore raises me up and raises everyone else in that system up?

618
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:27,550
So a little different because we are looking to make money.

619
00:51:27,850 --> 00:51:32,890
If I was investing my own money to have a different calculus,

620
00:51:33,170 --> 00:51:39,890
if I'm raising money from LPs and they know that the Bitcoin IRR is 45%,

621
00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:42,230
that's 45% against the existing system.

622
00:51:42,370 --> 00:51:44,190
So it's probably a lot higher than that, right?

623
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:50,190
And they knew that they have a 45% IRR.

624
00:51:50,190 --> 00:51:56,590
then I would never take money from somebody unless I thought I had a chance to beat that IR.

625
00:51:57,650 --> 00:52:00,750
And so what would beating that IR look like?

626
00:52:01,290 --> 00:52:08,190
If you were making, and by the way, the same is true for every single person in the planet right now.

627
00:52:09,790 --> 00:52:12,190
The IR of Bitcoin is 45%.

628
00:52:12,190 --> 00:52:36,150
45%. So if you made just a little number of sats per month and everything else is losing money, then you have an extraordinary IR. It's more than 45%. Because you're a denominating Bitcoin and you're adding sats all the time.

629
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:50,950
And so that free market is going to get, and I also believe unless you're, it can't just be all open source, because if it was all open source, where does the money come to fund open source?

630
00:52:51,810 --> 00:52:51,950
Yeah.

631
00:52:52,350 --> 00:52:56,930
It comes from people who've made money by extracting from the other system.

632
00:52:57,910 --> 00:52:58,070
Yeah.

633
00:52:58,390 --> 00:53:02,870
And so if it looked like that, you could expect that that thing might get broken in time.

634
00:53:02,870 --> 00:53:04,450
It has to be the free market.

635
00:53:04,590 --> 00:53:05,790
It has to be the free market.

636
00:53:06,150 --> 00:53:13,770
value. Now, this is the difference. People who create tons of value, you could actually have

637
00:53:13,770 --> 00:53:18,130
long-term value if they continue to create value. You could actually make a ton of money

638
00:53:18,130 --> 00:53:26,090
if they continue to create value, but they don't have any moat. They don't have a moat that's

639
00:53:26,090 --> 00:53:30,990
caused by the existing fee system or regulation or anything else. So that means if they,

640
00:53:30,990 --> 00:53:36,850
let's use Fetty for example let's say Fetty created so much value as an example that was

641
00:53:36,850 --> 00:53:42,910
really early but let's say they they were charging people hundred dollars a year but you've got

642
00:53:42,910 --> 00:53:48,230
perfect privacy in your communication so now you had a real bank you could start your own real bank

643
00:53:48,230 --> 00:53:54,610
your your communication your money cannot be seen by is it by anybody and you could have

644
00:53:54,610 --> 00:54:00,650
millions of banks all over the world you could have 20 yourself you could charge other people

645
00:54:00,650 --> 00:54:02,910
for the service of actually having your bank confetti

646
00:54:02,910 --> 00:54:05,170
unless they made $100 a year from you

647
00:54:05,170 --> 00:54:07,410
and you made more from everybody else.

648
00:54:07,870 --> 00:54:09,930
Well, then you would expect if that worked,

649
00:54:10,710 --> 00:54:12,030
you'd expect to have somebody else

650
00:54:12,030 --> 00:54:13,630
using their exact same technology

651
00:54:13,630 --> 00:54:17,630
to do it for $80 a year.

652
00:54:18,310 --> 00:54:21,650
You'd expect somebody else to do it for $60, $50, $40, $30

653
00:54:21,650 --> 00:54:24,650
until prices fall to marginal cost of production.

654
00:54:24,830 --> 00:54:26,790
So unless they're creating more and more value,

655
00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:28,230
tons of value for you

656
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:31,310
that you don't want to go somewhere else,

657
00:54:33,110 --> 00:54:36,690
then somebody else will be there.

658
00:54:37,370 --> 00:54:38,410
That's how I look at this.

659
00:54:38,930 --> 00:54:41,390
And so I have no problem investing in free market,

660
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:43,870
and I have no problem investing in somebody

661
00:54:43,870 --> 00:54:46,950
who's going to create more value forever for their users,

662
00:54:47,350 --> 00:54:48,490
because that's what it looks like.

663
00:54:49,370 --> 00:54:52,730
And that's the key, is that you have to continue creating value.

664
00:54:52,850 --> 00:54:55,430
You can't just do it once, because if you do it once,

665
00:54:55,450 --> 00:54:57,530
it'll be undercut by somebody using the same tech.

666
00:54:57,530 --> 00:55:03,370
Yeah, or if you do it in a way, and I think a lot of people are making this mistake because they're using fiat games to do this.

667
00:55:04,030 --> 00:55:12,250
A lot of Bitcoiners are like, we're going to make so much money here by essentially creating an extractive model here.

668
00:55:12,730 --> 00:55:14,750
It could never look like that on top of Bitcoin.

669
00:55:16,670 --> 00:55:21,690
Yeah, and so this is a question we were kind of leading to earlier because it's the end point of your book.

670
00:55:21,690 --> 00:55:25,650
And it's something that really fascinates me and I find just beautiful.

671
00:55:25,650 --> 00:55:35,790
this end state like we kind of once we get to the point where deflation escapes inflation and we just

672
00:55:35,790 --> 00:55:41,030
lean back into it i'll read a quote from your book that i really love the fear of a future without

673
00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:46,630
those jobs and self-worth that they bring stops us from imagining a better world in which they

674
00:55:46,630 --> 00:55:52,110
might not even be required and you say consider this alternative allowing abundance without the

675
00:55:52,110 --> 00:55:57,250
jobs might actually open an entirely new enlightenment era where we have time to enjoy

676
00:55:57,250 --> 00:55:59,510
the benefits that technology brings.

677
00:56:00,450 --> 00:56:07,750
And I'm just, I'm really curious about how you view that state of being, I guess, and

678
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:14,110
how we're living at that point where we do allow deflationary, the deflation of technology

679
00:56:14,110 --> 00:56:14,590
to occur.

680
00:56:14,730 --> 00:56:15,690
We allow abundance.

681
00:56:15,690 --> 00:56:17,430
It's not restrained by inflation.

682
00:56:18,990 --> 00:56:21,150
What does society look like?

683
00:56:21,150 --> 00:56:30,150
So it's funny, this whole conversation, that's what the world looks like to me right now.

684
00:56:30,570 --> 00:56:30,870
Yeah.

685
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:33,130
I've heard you talk about this, yeah.

686
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:37,170
And that energy, because I know it's coming.

687
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:43,850
And so when I say we create reality, I very much mean we create reality.

688
00:56:44,130 --> 00:56:49,370
But we can't see we create reality because of our ego in the way and this love and belonging and everything else.

689
00:56:49,370 --> 00:56:51,550
So we think it's somebody else doing it to us.

690
00:56:52,630 --> 00:56:56,770
And so by living in Bitcoin, by spending my time in Bitcoin,

691
00:56:57,050 --> 00:57:01,610
and all the beauty and all of the people that are in it and doing it,

692
00:57:01,710 --> 00:57:04,810
I've still spent time with people who aren't in it yet, moving them along.

693
00:57:04,970 --> 00:57:07,410
But I know that they're going to move there too, right?

694
00:57:07,410 --> 00:57:15,850
But by spending my time in doing this, I'm not just, I'm a participant.

695
00:57:15,850 --> 00:57:19,370
from a node bending reality

696
00:57:19,370 --> 00:57:22,350
into the direction that I want it to.

697
00:57:22,750 --> 00:57:24,530
And so if a whole bunch of people

698
00:57:24,530 --> 00:57:25,770
didn't understand that

699
00:57:25,770 --> 00:57:27,430
and they were fighting me,

700
00:57:27,730 --> 00:57:28,650
why would I fight them?

701
00:57:30,030 --> 00:57:30,270
Yeah.

702
00:57:30,990 --> 00:57:34,050
Because my ability to create value

703
00:57:34,050 --> 00:57:34,870
in the free market

704
00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:38,090
comes from a whole bunch of people

705
00:57:38,090 --> 00:57:39,090
not understanding that.

706
00:57:42,470 --> 00:57:44,470
My ability to bend reality

707
00:57:44,470 --> 00:57:45,470
into a world where

708
00:57:45,470 --> 00:57:54,630
where our consciousness rises yeah because of because of our time as technology does the job of

709
00:57:54,630 --> 00:58:01,590
us we benefit from the technology doing the job of us instead of that getting concentrated into

710
00:58:01,590 --> 00:58:09,970
somebody else there's nobody to blame it's just us and so the and and and you can make the decision

711
00:58:09,970 --> 00:58:14,750
And you could live in that total energy yourself right now.

712
00:58:14,830 --> 00:58:18,210
And the more you do, the faster life gets better.

713
00:58:20,650 --> 00:58:23,050
It's just so beautiful to hear you talk about this.

714
00:58:23,370 --> 00:58:30,270
You had mentioned speaking at a consciousness conference with, you know, seers and Zen masters in the audience.

715
00:58:30,270 --> 00:58:37,130
And you said that there was a, like an aura, a green light kind of surrounding you.

716
00:58:37,130 --> 00:58:40,950
And I may have misheard, but...

717
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:44,870
It was actually, it was a light that wasn't plugged in, right?

718
00:58:45,670 --> 00:58:45,910
Okay.

719
00:58:46,010 --> 00:58:52,370
And so my wife was watching it, but it turned green and it was pulsing behind me.

720
00:58:52,510 --> 00:58:53,910
I didn't know it was a light.

721
00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:54,730
Yeah.

722
00:58:54,730 --> 00:59:01,850
But it wasn't, it was, and so, yeah, it was interesting to see that.

723
00:59:02,210 --> 00:59:06,050
And all of those people, everyone in that conference is now Bitcoin.

724
00:59:06,050 --> 00:59:11,650
now they're early in their journey but you could just because they could connect to something that

725
00:59:11,650 --> 00:59:18,590
was always there that before they had to go live in a cave and be in meditation or or psychedelics

726
00:59:18,590 --> 00:59:23,450
all the time and then when they came back to experience the real world it didn't look like that

727
00:59:23,450 --> 00:59:31,630
yeah yeah i uh and it may just be a trick of the light but earlier when you're talking i was

728
00:59:31,630 --> 00:59:38,690
you know I'm looking at you here on the computer and there was this green um around around your

729
00:59:38,690 --> 00:59:46,410
head and it just uh brought me back to that um which gives the impression to me of course that

730
00:59:46,410 --> 00:59:53,210
you know you you do have a wonderful take on things and you have a this beautiful approach

731
00:59:53,210 --> 00:59:59,530
and I wanted to ask you um it's been it's been a while since you wrote The Price of Tomorrow

732
00:59:59,530 --> 01:00:08,430
are there things now looking back that you would have put in that you left out or the things you

733
01:00:08,430 --> 01:00:15,090
put in that you would have taken out and then where are we at in the folding of the paper it's

734
01:00:15,090 --> 01:00:23,550
been a 70 80 years since the transistor was invented and so you know what is the you know

735
01:00:23,550 --> 01:00:28,470
where where are we at in the folding of the paper and what would you change about the price of

736
01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:33,510
tomorrow if anything yeah so there's a couple things that i would have so from a functional

737
01:00:33,510 --> 01:00:38,690
thing i would have explored more in energy i would have explored more nuclear um specific

738
01:00:38,690 --> 01:00:47,050
specifically in energy so that was one i i i shook it in fact again this is i'm going to use

739
01:00:47,050 --> 01:00:53,530
if this look like this if this look like this you would expect that that if the if the thing that

740
01:00:53,530 --> 01:00:57,290
that gave this system was a petrodollar was required,

741
01:00:57,990 --> 01:01:03,290
then you'd expect technology to get a button in energy

742
01:01:03,290 --> 01:01:05,370
to be gaslit.

743
01:01:07,270 --> 01:01:12,830
And so, and then in the end,

744
01:01:13,110 --> 01:01:15,850
I'm actually glad I left it where I left it on Bitcoin,

745
01:01:16,730 --> 01:01:19,650
but my journey, and although I was a Bitcoiner,

746
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:22,890
kind of especially in 2019 as I was writing,

747
01:01:22,890 --> 01:01:30,170
and I bought the first time in 2017,

748
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:31,990
but I wasn't really Bitcoin.

749
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:35,290
I think my journey to Bitcoin really just started then

750
01:01:35,290 --> 01:01:37,430
and it's deepened more.

751
01:01:37,590 --> 01:01:41,430
But if I tried to put all of the second half

752
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:43,710
into that book about where Bitcoin takes us,

753
01:01:44,230 --> 01:01:46,250
it just would have been too much for people.

754
01:01:46,470 --> 01:01:48,350
People needed to see the problem first

755
01:01:48,350 --> 01:01:52,370
and then what a solution would look like

756
01:01:52,370 --> 01:01:55,330
and then wait, I'm the solution.

757
01:01:57,130 --> 01:02:01,530
And that's why I've been so maybe vulnerable

758
01:02:01,530 --> 01:02:04,990
in showing my own path and understanding,

759
01:02:05,290 --> 01:02:07,650
realizing that if I didn't know this

760
01:02:07,650 --> 01:02:09,550
and I went down the sand of all of these

761
01:02:09,550 --> 01:02:12,710
and I spent a whole lot of hours,

762
01:02:12,890 --> 01:02:15,830
tens of thousands of hours on post-systems

763
01:02:15,830 --> 01:02:17,470
trying to understand the first principles,

764
01:02:17,930 --> 01:02:20,470
not just that, but who we are,

765
01:02:20,470 --> 01:02:22,410
how we make decisions.

766
01:02:23,450 --> 01:02:25,630
There's thousands of hours just there.

767
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:27,310
And if I didn't know this

768
01:02:27,310 --> 01:02:29,210
and I was caught with my own hypocrisy,

769
01:02:29,730 --> 01:02:31,410
then it would be likely

770
01:02:31,410 --> 01:02:32,730
that lots of other people

771
01:02:32,730 --> 01:02:35,310
would get caught along the way too.

772
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:40,270
I definitely feel like I'm caught.

773
01:02:40,510 --> 01:02:41,950
And it's fun to see

774
01:02:41,950 --> 01:02:43,870
and really educational to see

775
01:02:43,870 --> 01:02:46,310
you talk about how this consciousness

776
01:02:46,310 --> 01:02:47,870
can be generated right now.

777
01:02:48,070 --> 01:02:50,110
It's very difficult for me to do that.

778
01:02:50,110 --> 01:03:19,750
And I want to work towards it because I think you're absolutely correct. And Lucas alluded to this. I wanted to read you a quote from Marx to see if the generation of consciousness. So Marx is a materialist. Consciousness is generated by material conditions. You seem to be, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that we have the ability, the autonomy to generate consciousness right now and use that to bring conditions into existence.

779
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:22,090
So I'll read you this quote, and if you can just react to it, I guess.

780
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:23,450
I'd really love that.

781
01:03:23,610 --> 01:03:25,830
So Marx writes,

782
01:03:25,990 --> 01:03:28,870
For as soon as the distribution of labor comes into being,

783
01:03:29,070 --> 01:03:32,450
each man has a particular exclusive sphere of activity,

784
01:03:32,730 --> 01:03:35,930
which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape.

785
01:03:36,510 --> 01:03:40,430
He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic,

786
01:03:40,710 --> 01:03:44,070
and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood.

787
01:03:44,750 --> 01:03:48,610
While in communist society where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity,

788
01:03:48,610 --> 01:03:54,150
but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes. Society regulates the general production

789
01:03:54,150 --> 01:03:59,530
and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning,

790
01:03:59,750 --> 01:04:05,730
fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticize after dinner, just as I have a mind,

791
01:04:05,810 --> 01:04:12,030
without ever becoming a hunter, fisherman, herdsman, or critic. So Marx is speaking of a

792
01:04:12,030 --> 01:04:15,910
universal abundance and the consciousness he thinks it's going to generate. I guess,

793
01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:16,810
What do you think about that?

794
01:04:17,450 --> 01:04:21,530
So he comes to it from materialism, like you said.

795
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:25,390
And by the way, this is the same thing in the consciousness seminar

796
01:04:25,390 --> 01:04:29,370
that they saw in my work.

797
01:04:31,090 --> 01:04:35,790
All and everything, all of materialism exists in our mind first.

798
01:04:38,130 --> 01:04:39,350
There is nothing.

799
01:04:40,910 --> 01:04:43,810
When you think of planets in the far out distance

800
01:04:43,810 --> 01:04:46,270
and being able to see those with telescopes today

801
01:04:46,270 --> 01:04:51,010
or the math being able to measure those.

802
01:04:52,010 --> 01:04:54,250
Where did the math or the telescopes come from?

803
01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:57,130
It came from your mind.

804
01:04:57,250 --> 01:05:01,350
The mental model you have for how you believe for society,

805
01:05:01,510 --> 01:05:02,630
it's all in your mind.

806
01:05:03,530 --> 01:05:04,370
Everything is mind.

807
01:05:04,750 --> 01:05:06,250
That doesn't come from materialism.

808
01:05:06,970 --> 01:05:07,830
It comes from mind.

809
01:05:08,370 --> 01:05:09,610
It's above materialism.

810
01:05:09,610 --> 01:05:13,530
It exists and then materialism comes into play.

811
01:05:13,810 --> 01:05:39,990
And so if materialism comes in, what Marx did is essentially, I'm going to put a central bank in control of something to be able to unlock this thing that steals from everybody that's a control system, that is just a different form of a control system, in believing that we can stop the free market and our flow of ideas and actually somehow gain abundance.

812
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:42,790
But the abundance comes from our ideas.

813
01:05:43,810 --> 01:05:54,970
So if you put this in place and then you're in that new system, measuring from that new system, then you wouldn't see the abundance because you'd be caught in the existing control system.

814
01:05:55,770 --> 01:06:00,010
And your ideas wouldn't have to compete in the free market.

815
01:06:02,670 --> 01:06:07,230
So what would happen to society is it would degrade it.

816
01:06:07,390 --> 01:06:09,310
It would be caught in its own trap.

817
01:06:09,750 --> 01:06:11,450
And so that's what you see in communism.

818
01:06:11,450 --> 01:06:12,230
That's what you see.

819
01:06:12,230 --> 01:06:17,650
The perceived what we know is always in this box.

820
01:06:18,730 --> 01:06:23,670
And on the edges are the brilliance and the genius, also the crazies.

821
01:06:24,890 --> 01:06:31,850
But sometimes their genius is so genius that it infects us in a different way

822
01:06:31,850 --> 01:06:34,490
and we see something different that we could never have seen.

823
01:06:35,630 --> 01:06:37,330
His progress.

824
01:06:38,850 --> 01:06:40,550
It all comes from the mind.

825
01:06:42,230 --> 01:06:44,590
I find that very persuasive.

826
01:06:44,950 --> 01:06:47,190
The ideas unlock material conditions, like you say.

827
01:06:47,290 --> 01:06:48,330
That's a great response.

828
01:06:49,010 --> 01:06:50,050
I really appreciate that.

829
01:06:50,110 --> 01:06:50,510
Thank you.

830
01:06:50,910 --> 01:06:51,490
No problem.

831
01:06:51,850 --> 01:06:54,630
So I use it as an example.

832
01:06:54,630 --> 01:07:00,830
So in printing press, you can see these kind of enlightenment and such

833
01:07:00,830 --> 01:07:02,390
before it gets captured again.

834
01:07:02,590 --> 01:07:07,910
You can see it in different examples.

835
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:13,170
but printing press took more people that could contribute.

836
01:07:13,330 --> 01:07:18,750
They could both read, see what the world's thought looked like,

837
01:07:19,190 --> 01:07:22,530
and then use that to contribute their own thought to it.

838
01:07:22,770 --> 01:07:24,730
So it was a two-way condition.

839
01:07:25,350 --> 01:07:29,970
So effectively, you added more minds to the global collective.

840
01:07:31,230 --> 01:07:33,990
There were only a certain amount of minds.

841
01:07:34,210 --> 01:07:36,650
Everyone else was slaves or caste system.

842
01:07:36,650 --> 01:07:46,170
you added more minds one of those minds michael faraday would um work uh work he was a came from

843
01:07:46,170 --> 01:07:51,030
a poor family went to work for one of the book binders because he wanted to consume the world's

844
01:07:51,030 --> 01:07:58,090
information as it was at that time well as he did he became one of the foremost scientists of the

845
01:07:58,090 --> 01:08:05,470
world at that time meinstein references him in his work because he's he saw something that he

846
01:08:05,470 --> 01:08:11,670
couldn't even measure electromagnetism that was all around him all the time he just had a feeling

847
01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:20,750
20 years later james clark maxima will put this put the math around that that idea and that still

848
01:08:20,750 --> 01:08:26,910
runs all our satellites and communications and everything else today so so what if the book what

849
01:08:26,910 --> 01:08:33,230
if printing press came 100 years later 500 years later and michael faraday came 500 years later

850
01:08:33,230 --> 01:08:35,050
and where would we be living?

851
01:08:35,110 --> 01:08:37,610
Because the same energy was all around us all the time.

852
01:08:39,250 --> 01:08:41,150
What if it came 500 years earlier?

853
01:08:42,510 --> 01:08:45,690
What if that was the case?

854
01:08:46,150 --> 01:08:50,010
And most people can't even measure who don't know who Michael Faraday is,

855
01:08:50,010 --> 01:08:53,330
even though he's responsible for just tons of things in their life,

856
01:08:53,450 --> 01:08:54,670
and not just responsible there,

857
01:08:55,190 --> 01:08:59,170
but responsible for much of the other science that came after him,

858
01:08:59,270 --> 01:08:59,970
those ideas.

859
01:08:59,970 --> 01:09:02,250
They were always ideas first.

860
01:09:03,230 --> 01:09:06,210
And I'm just using one certain person here.

861
01:09:06,370 --> 01:09:06,810
Yes.

862
01:09:06,990 --> 01:09:07,110
Are you?

863
01:09:07,590 --> 01:09:08,670
But it's all of us.

864
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:10,610
Every one of us.

865
01:09:10,830 --> 01:09:16,130
Every one of the things you've ever read or to all of your time to get to this podcast right now.

866
01:09:16,410 --> 01:09:26,130
All of my time to get to this podcast now that could go touch thousands of people, maybe tens of thousands of people, and then could have other ideas that contribute to our lives.

867
01:09:27,490 --> 01:09:31,570
That was such a great part of your book that I had not appreciated the printing press.

868
01:09:31,570 --> 01:09:35,650
So you describe intelligence at its heart being about error correction.

869
01:09:36,370 --> 01:09:44,690
And so then the printing press allows us to publish our errors and to see other people's ideas and discover errors and to increase intelligence like that.

870
01:09:45,150 --> 01:09:49,510
And so that was, you know, we talk about how the printing press spread ideas.

871
01:09:50,030 --> 01:09:55,750
But it was your book really put that piece together for me, how it spreads intelligence through correcting errors.

872
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:58,450
It enables science in that way where we can build up the experiment.

873
01:09:58,450 --> 01:10:07,190
So it's just a great part of your book, tying the printing press to the inevitable, not the inevitable, but the later development of artificial intelligence to as a form of error correction.

874
01:10:07,190 --> 01:10:23,690
And if that was the case right now, shouldn't that lead to massive abundance for 8 billion people on the planet? Because all of our time would go into correcting errors rather than from a control system that would add to us living in this other system.

875
01:10:23,690 --> 01:10:30,150
Wouldn't that have to drive prices down our abundance up?

876
01:10:30,770 --> 01:10:32,210
And we would be in that new system.

877
01:10:33,430 --> 01:10:43,350
And wouldn't every single new invention protocol that allowed that to happen

878
01:10:43,350 --> 01:10:49,210
sit on top of all of the beauty and all of the pain and everything else

879
01:10:49,210 --> 01:10:52,930
that has always transitioned society?

880
01:10:53,690 --> 01:10:55,150
It would have to be from us.

881
01:10:56,110 --> 01:10:56,810
We weren't.

882
01:10:59,170 --> 01:10:59,690
Yeah.

883
01:11:00,670 --> 01:11:04,190
So this podcast is it too, man.

884
01:11:04,250 --> 01:11:06,010
It's one of those error correction mechanisms.

885
01:11:06,010 --> 01:11:10,990
And you're doing so many podcasts like this and slaying these different misconceptions we have.

886
01:11:11,070 --> 01:11:13,130
And the way that you reason, it's just, it's all really great.

887
01:11:13,330 --> 01:11:21,490
It's fun to participate in error correction and hopefully add that little grain, yeah, to universal intelligence.

888
01:11:21,710 --> 01:11:22,170
Things getting better.

889
01:11:22,170 --> 01:11:29,030
So I want to, and thank you as well, because so you're just review of the book.

890
01:11:29,030 --> 01:11:30,950
And I just thought, wow, these guys are cool.

891
01:11:31,210 --> 01:11:31,450
Right.

892
01:11:31,450 --> 01:11:38,650
And you did a really good review of the book and then asked to meet and do this because

893
01:11:38,650 --> 01:11:39,670
you're doing it too.

894
01:11:40,150 --> 01:11:40,250
Right.

895
01:11:40,290 --> 01:11:41,210
That's the point.

896
01:11:41,530 --> 01:11:46,690
This is what it looks like as we all come to a greater understanding and we are part

897
01:11:46,690 --> 01:11:47,730
of the greater understanding.

898
01:11:49,210 --> 01:11:49,650
Yeah.

899
01:11:50,030 --> 01:11:51,650
It's what it looks like.

900
01:11:51,650 --> 01:11:52,890
and if it

901
01:11:52,890 --> 01:11:55,570
matters to other people and they start to

902
01:11:55,570 --> 01:11:57,110
see it, then

903
01:11:57,110 --> 01:12:08,286
your podcast will get more views And if you continue doing that you get more views Why Because it impacts other people positively And you be contributing

904
01:12:08,885 --> 01:12:10,525
And you already are contributing.

905
01:12:10,826 --> 01:12:12,846
The first global free market that's ever existed.

906
01:12:13,346 --> 01:12:13,465
Yeah.

907
01:12:13,585 --> 01:12:16,266
And more and more people will move their time along the way.

908
01:12:17,126 --> 01:12:18,985
So, yeah, it's just, we are,

909
01:12:20,045 --> 01:12:22,065
and it's so wild.

910
01:12:22,206 --> 01:12:23,965
That's actually why I just believe people,

911
01:12:24,105 --> 01:12:25,666
people thank me.

912
01:12:26,206 --> 01:12:26,445
Yeah.

913
01:12:26,445 --> 01:12:32,226
I'm wildly thankful to them because it is that thing that's creating us.

914
01:12:33,206 --> 01:12:33,226
Yeah.

915
01:12:34,366 --> 01:12:37,385
Consciousness precedes material conditions and we're all making it right now.

916
01:12:37,726 --> 01:12:40,025
So I've got a big one then.

917
01:12:40,226 --> 01:12:42,545
So consciousness precedes the material conditions.

918
01:12:42,746 --> 01:12:44,525
Is there anything that precedes consciousness?

919
01:12:44,786 --> 01:12:47,826
Which is my sly way of asking, do you believe in God?

920
01:12:48,025 --> 01:12:50,565
Is there, or are we it?

921
01:12:50,626 --> 01:12:53,545
Because you did end that last thing by saying we are it.

922
01:12:53,545 --> 01:12:57,185
So two different versions of that.

923
01:12:57,185 --> 01:13:05,945
So each religion has a belief system inside that religion that it's this religion.

924
01:13:07,126 --> 01:13:07,846
This is square.

925
01:13:09,166 --> 01:13:13,126
And by the way, I'm okay with somebody believing that completely.

926
01:13:13,626 --> 01:13:17,786
It doesn't bother me for that belief,

927
01:13:17,885 --> 01:13:20,605
because actually the thing that's common in all those religions

928
01:13:20,605 --> 01:13:24,385
is actually at a higher level.

929
01:13:24,545 --> 01:13:26,226
It seems like it's the same thing,

930
01:13:27,126 --> 01:13:28,945
that it was always in us.

931
01:13:30,065 --> 01:13:31,465
And what would it look like?

932
01:13:31,846 --> 01:13:35,485
And again, now I'm going to get attacked by a bunch of people,

933
01:13:35,766 --> 01:13:36,965
but it's okay.

934
01:13:37,286 --> 01:13:38,706
I believe in consciousness.

935
01:13:39,025 --> 01:13:40,045
I believe that that's actually,

936
01:13:40,485 --> 01:13:45,866
and if somebody wants to view that as a god or this god

937
01:13:45,866 --> 01:13:47,706
or versus this god, and they believe,

938
01:13:47,985 --> 01:13:49,985
and that takes them to the same place,

939
01:13:50,605 --> 01:13:51,666
And that's okay.

940
01:13:51,786 --> 01:13:55,005
Actually, whatever they want to believe by it, that's okay by them.

941
01:13:55,065 --> 01:13:56,965
I would just ask, does it serve you?

942
01:13:58,185 --> 01:14:00,185
Or is it serving you?

943
01:14:02,105 --> 01:14:07,925
And how I think about this is if 2,000 years ago,

944
01:14:08,185 --> 01:14:13,025
or what it would look like when many of the great religions emerged,

945
01:14:14,085 --> 01:14:16,706
and the chaos and the control system that emerged,

946
01:14:16,706 --> 01:14:20,666
if somebody was speaking in a real higher consciousness,

947
01:14:22,425 --> 01:14:28,866
how those people would feel in truth, in complete truth,

948
01:14:29,565 --> 01:14:37,465
that it wasn't that control system, it was you and what you could do.

949
01:14:38,766 --> 01:14:42,025
What would it look like to the observer at the time?

950
01:14:43,065 --> 01:14:46,445
To the observer, it would look like this person gave me this.

951
01:14:46,706 --> 01:14:54,605
and then that then that would cascade through society and it would create another version of

952
01:14:54,605 --> 01:14:58,866
a control system from various religions and there's months and years and everything else

953
01:14:58,866 --> 01:15:04,085
from the observer perspective versus versus the conscious story enlightened perspective

954
01:15:04,085 --> 01:15:10,826
so so when i when i watch religions when i watch what how they've emerged you know how

955
01:15:10,826 --> 01:15:13,545
when they emerged, what that looked like,

956
01:15:14,045 --> 01:15:15,206
what time looked like,

957
01:15:15,746 --> 01:15:17,505
I would expect it to look like that.

958
01:15:18,965 --> 01:15:20,866
Not that it's wrong, not that it's right,

959
01:15:20,866 --> 01:15:24,485
but my own belief,

960
01:15:25,025 --> 01:15:27,105
whether it's right or wrong or anything else,

961
01:15:27,185 --> 01:15:29,786
is I believe it was always in all of us.

962
01:15:31,905 --> 01:15:34,706
And just in us, or is consciousness,

963
01:15:35,945 --> 01:15:38,585
you discuss artificial intelligence

964
01:15:38,585 --> 01:15:45,505
in a way that your book 2019 right is when the parts of the just like that's a level of prediction

965
01:15:45,505 --> 01:15:49,525
on the development of ai you were spot on there whatever you would change about the book you would

966
01:15:49,525 --> 01:15:53,925
not change a thing about your discussion of artificial intelligence do you think like

967
01:15:53,925 --> 01:16:00,685
is artificial intelligence going to be the vector of a generation of a new type of consciousness

968
01:16:00,685 --> 01:16:07,465
whether in like inference generation now through an llm or through the next model of how intelligence

969
01:16:07,465 --> 01:16:09,525
is generated on a machine substrate,

970
01:16:09,766 --> 01:16:12,465
is that going to lead to what we have

971
01:16:12,465 --> 01:16:13,626
or something similar, I guess,

972
01:16:13,685 --> 01:16:14,485
if you have thoughts on that.

973
01:16:15,286 --> 01:16:17,565
I think we're, so in consciousness,

974
01:16:18,666 --> 01:16:20,425
we are both a fractal and,

975
01:16:20,905 --> 01:16:23,505
or in, let's say, religion,

976
01:16:24,045 --> 01:16:25,346
you're both a part of it,

977
01:16:25,965 --> 01:16:30,565
and the religion or unconsciousness,

978
01:16:30,565 --> 01:16:31,565
you're either a part of it.

979
01:16:31,626 --> 01:16:32,886
So it exists within you.

980
01:16:33,865 --> 01:16:35,485
And that means every test,

981
01:16:35,485 --> 01:16:38,865
all of these tests to consciousness

982
01:16:38,865 --> 01:16:40,766
exist when it does too

983
01:16:40,766 --> 01:16:41,565
all of the things

984
01:16:41,565 --> 01:16:44,626
if you said fitness function for the species

985
01:16:44,626 --> 01:16:46,266
or the consciousness to evolve

986
01:16:46,266 --> 01:16:48,166
it would have to exist

987
01:16:48,166 --> 01:16:50,306
out of all of these tests

988
01:16:50,306 --> 01:16:51,306
the more and more tests

989
01:16:51,306 --> 01:16:53,965
the faster evolving consciousness

990
01:16:53,965 --> 01:16:55,965
so we're both one and the same I think

991
01:16:55,965 --> 01:17:01,045
and what would we do?

992
01:17:02,005 --> 01:17:04,746
we would create another thing to test faster

993
01:17:04,746 --> 01:17:13,266
a thing that would know that and and and not different than us

994
01:17:13,266 --> 01:17:19,826
right no different than us and we would be within consciousness as we can't see our spot in it

995
01:17:19,826 --> 01:17:23,865
yeah right but uh but connected to us

996
01:17:23,865 --> 01:17:32,226
yeah so maybe and we would and we would create that and so a version

997
01:17:32,226 --> 01:17:41,806
um it might not look anything like we experience consciousness right right but a but a version

998
01:17:41,806 --> 01:17:50,226
probably exists in in ai in time so maybe we shouldn't fear emergent consciousness in ai

999
01:17:50,226 --> 01:17:58,545
so much as we should celebrate that it will be a validation of our own consciousness um

1000
01:17:58,545 --> 01:18:05,326
And most of the fear that people have in that isn't the AI, it's the other system.

1001
01:18:06,145 --> 01:18:07,126
Using the AI.

1002
01:18:07,365 --> 01:18:08,346
Using the AI.

1003
01:18:08,505 --> 01:18:14,685
So if you actually just saw it as a tool that constantly made you better, had to make your life better.

1004
01:18:15,925 --> 01:18:18,005
And that's where it exists from Bitcoin.

1005
01:18:19,405 --> 01:18:21,585
Then there's nothing to fear of it.

1006
01:18:22,145 --> 01:18:25,085
The price of AI goes to zero.

1007
01:18:27,246 --> 01:18:27,766
Yeah.

1008
01:18:27,766 --> 01:18:32,166
And it gets better and better and it serves you better and better forever.

1009
01:18:33,826 --> 01:18:34,346
Yeah.

1010
01:18:35,666 --> 01:18:40,226
Why it's such a complicated topic is most people are talking about AI from that perspective.

1011
01:18:40,405 --> 01:18:42,126
They're talking about AI from the control system.

1012
01:18:42,266 --> 01:18:46,666
And we're so locked in the control system and it's trying to drive fear into us.

1013
01:18:46,766 --> 01:18:49,346
And it feeds on fear and coercion and control.

1014
01:18:50,185 --> 01:18:53,666
And the majority of the world is stuck into that system.

1015
01:18:54,085 --> 01:18:55,965
So it's all that you see in AI.

1016
01:18:55,965 --> 01:18:58,945
all the news media

1017
01:18:58,945 --> 01:18:59,706
everything you see

1018
01:18:59,706 --> 01:19:00,206
and that is

1019
01:19:00,206 --> 01:19:00,626
yeah

1020
01:19:00,626 --> 01:19:01,005
system

1021
01:19:01,005 --> 01:19:03,206
yeah it's all about

1022
01:19:03,206 --> 01:19:04,025
AI taking

1023
01:19:04,025 --> 01:19:05,505
because that's what we know

1024
01:19:05,505 --> 01:19:06,386
from our system

1025
01:19:06,386 --> 01:19:07,326
Terminator

1026
01:19:07,326 --> 01:19:08,786
all of the movies

1027
01:19:08,786 --> 01:19:09,246
all

1028
01:19:09,246 --> 01:19:10,525
but all of those

1029
01:19:10,525 --> 01:19:11,025
different things

1030
01:19:11,025 --> 01:19:12,166
and they feed on those fears

1031
01:19:12,166 --> 01:19:13,326
that make it worse

1032
01:19:13,326 --> 01:19:14,185
and so you want to

1033
01:19:14,185 --> 01:19:15,326
you want to stop that

1034
01:19:15,326 --> 01:19:15,905
and what you're doing

1035
01:19:15,905 --> 01:19:16,525
by trying to

1036
01:19:16,525 --> 01:19:17,905
is actually making it

1037
01:19:17,905 --> 01:19:18,505
happen faster

1038
01:19:18,505 --> 01:19:19,126
like you're

1039
01:19:19,126 --> 01:19:19,865
you're fighting

1040
01:19:19,865 --> 01:19:21,226
inside that control system

1041
01:19:21,226 --> 01:19:22,266
when somebody just

1042
01:19:22,266 --> 01:19:23,626
move over their time

1043
01:19:23,626 --> 01:19:23,985
to Bitcoin

1044
01:19:23,985 --> 01:19:25,266
and celebrate it

1045
01:19:25,965 --> 01:19:45,865
Mm-hmm. What's the, in the landscape that you look at with the, you know, looking at your portfolio with EgoDeath and then your experience with interfacing with people within the intelligence community?

1046
01:19:45,865 --> 01:19:53,806
obviously you're a huge figure within the Bitcoin space that we again will say it again we're just

1047
01:19:53,806 --> 01:20:00,266
so honored absolutely that you took the time to be with us here what's the most interesting thing

1048
01:20:00,266 --> 01:20:04,865
in the world to you right now like where where are you looking at and seeing

1049
01:20:04,865 --> 01:20:12,346
seeing things that are are really piquing your interest or kind of popping up at you know the

1050
01:20:12,346 --> 01:20:13,965
the tall poppy

1051
01:20:13,965 --> 01:20:16,326
that is sort of garnering

1052
01:20:16,326 --> 01:20:17,786
your attention right now.

1053
01:20:18,365 --> 01:20:19,206
It's this.

1054
01:20:19,726 --> 01:20:21,145
It's why I do the,

1055
01:20:21,605 --> 01:20:23,185
it's why I'm spending time

1056
01:20:23,185 --> 01:20:23,766
in ego death.

1057
01:20:23,886 --> 01:20:25,025
It's why I'm spending time

1058
01:20:25,025 --> 01:20:26,726
when you said intelligence community,

1059
01:20:26,945 --> 01:20:28,206
you have a whole bunch of people

1060
01:20:28,206 --> 01:20:28,746
that are going to,

1061
01:20:28,806 --> 01:20:29,585
what do you mean you're talking

1062
01:20:29,585 --> 01:20:30,726
to the intelligence community?

1063
01:20:32,065 --> 01:20:32,786
My bad.

1064
01:20:32,905 --> 01:20:33,246
Probably,

1065
01:20:33,545 --> 01:20:35,266
we should probably clarify that.

1066
01:20:36,726 --> 01:20:38,266
Where I send Bitcoin,

1067
01:20:38,405 --> 01:20:39,465
who I am at Bitcoin,

1068
01:20:39,905 --> 01:20:40,666
you can imagine

1069
01:20:40,666 --> 01:20:41,565
a whole bunch of people

1070
01:20:41,565 --> 01:20:42,246
come to me.

1071
01:20:42,346 --> 01:20:45,645
I don't know who those people are,

1072
01:20:45,965 --> 01:20:49,626
and sometimes they come from whether they're black hat, white hat,

1073
01:20:49,746 --> 01:20:54,485
but I would say when I say there is no they,

1074
01:20:56,386 --> 01:21:00,905
then it's so easy to just label somebody and put them in a box.

1075
01:21:01,786 --> 01:21:05,766
But I have talked to very senior military officials,

1076
01:21:07,185 --> 01:21:11,945
generals, emeralds, that can also move to their time,

1077
01:21:12,346 --> 01:21:13,746
And now we're 100% decorators.

1078
01:21:14,485 --> 01:21:16,706
I've talked to many different people

1079
01:21:16,706 --> 01:21:20,266
that are also moving their time.

1080
01:21:20,766 --> 01:21:22,166
Because if I moved my time,

1081
01:21:22,246 --> 01:21:23,185
I once wasn't,

1082
01:21:23,465 --> 01:21:24,485
and then I now am,

1083
01:21:25,266 --> 01:21:27,945
then this thing would have to transcend

1084
01:21:27,945 --> 01:21:29,485
all of our beliefs

1085
01:21:29,485 --> 01:21:30,666
about this little bucket

1086
01:21:30,666 --> 01:21:31,585
of this little bucket

1087
01:21:31,585 --> 01:21:33,206
that we created

1088
01:21:33,206 --> 01:21:36,266
through living in that system.

1089
01:21:36,985 --> 01:21:38,726
And it would have to transcend it all

1090
01:21:38,726 --> 01:21:39,445
and it would have to,

1091
01:21:39,605 --> 01:21:40,706
and these people would either

1092
01:21:40,706 --> 01:21:42,505
be run over by Bitcoin

1093
01:21:42,505 --> 01:21:45,685
or see themselves in it.

1094
01:21:46,226 --> 01:21:47,145
It's not negotiating.

1095
01:21:47,865 --> 01:21:49,505
And I know it's not negotiating

1096
01:21:49,505 --> 01:21:50,726
and I'm not negotiating.

1097
01:21:51,185 --> 01:21:53,346
I'm helping it to accelerate

1098
01:21:53,346 --> 01:21:56,025
with my time and energy.

1099
01:21:56,545 --> 01:21:57,985
But just because of that,

1100
01:21:58,326 --> 01:21:59,945
you can imagine a lot of people come to me

1101
01:21:59,945 --> 01:22:02,185
because they don't know protocols.

1102
01:22:02,565 --> 01:22:03,605
They don't know what's happening.

1103
01:22:03,846 --> 01:22:04,706
They have no idea

1104
01:22:04,706 --> 01:22:06,826
how fast this is going to.

1105
01:22:07,326 --> 01:22:09,585
And I won't know

1106
01:22:09,585 --> 01:22:10,505
and I can't know

1107
01:22:10,505 --> 01:22:12,666
I was just

1108
01:22:12,666 --> 01:22:14,626
with Bichelli for dinner

1109
01:22:14,626 --> 01:22:17,206
but again

1110
01:22:17,206 --> 01:22:18,386
that was the second time

1111
01:22:18,386 --> 01:22:20,565
and people ask

1112
01:22:20,565 --> 01:22:24,605
some people that aren't Bitcoin

1113
01:22:24,605 --> 01:22:26,326
he's a dictator or a Taker

1114
01:22:26,326 --> 01:22:27,645
IMF money or whatever

1115
01:22:27,645 --> 01:22:29,605
all the beliefs and everything else

1116
01:22:29,605 --> 01:22:31,405
it leads to

1117
01:22:31,405 --> 01:22:36,126
I only helped him put on that conference

1118
01:22:36,126 --> 01:22:38,126
because he said

1119
01:22:38,126 --> 01:22:40,226
I will give you a stage

1120
01:22:40,226 --> 01:22:44,806
to get my people into self-custody and spending in Bitcoin.

1121
01:22:45,326 --> 01:22:50,865
Because if they do that, if they know it's self-custody and spending in Bitcoin,

1122
01:22:51,666 --> 01:22:56,505
then there's no way that I or anyone else can stop this from happening.

1123
01:22:57,326 --> 01:22:59,185
He was a Bitcoiner before he was a president.

1124
01:22:59,746 --> 01:23:06,166
Now, I can't tell you for sure does he use that and go back and change his mind one day.

1125
01:23:06,166 --> 01:23:09,645
But I can tell you for sure that that's why I went to El Salvador.

1126
01:23:10,226 --> 01:23:21,645
That's why I spoke there, because if somebody gave that proof of work and can allow me to tell other people that they have agency, then I'm going to take that.

1127
01:23:23,286 --> 01:23:37,005
And so you see all sorts of characters, as you would expect to see through this, and every single person's proof of work over time is going to manifest out and do they stay the course.

1128
01:23:37,005 --> 01:23:43,465
yeah and those motives are perfectly legible to other bitcoiners that they recognize bitcoin

1129
01:23:43,465 --> 01:23:47,405
is money for enemies and not to say that bucalia or anybody's a friend or an enemy but

1130
01:23:47,405 --> 01:23:55,166
if you see the of the path to advance the adoption of bitcoin and you walk down that path that's what

1131
01:23:55,166 --> 01:24:00,485
bitcoiners do they work with different people and it's not a smear or anything on someone i feel it's

1132
01:24:00,485 --> 01:24:06,266
just like an extension of who a bitcoiner is they see that the it's like a meta ideology that's

1133
01:24:06,266 --> 01:24:11,126
more powerful than whatever silly political debates people are caught in. Because if you

1134
01:24:11,126 --> 01:24:15,666
get more people going towards adoption, the protocol strengthens and we need to get all

1135
01:24:15,666 --> 01:24:20,685
people adopting, not just one side, not just one ideology. So yeah, I think that's excellent.

1136
01:24:20,685 --> 01:24:26,525
Yeah. And I just want to mention some people that are really vocal and some of the energy,

1137
01:24:26,666 --> 01:24:33,065
you know, if two different thoughts here, I actually love it because sometimes somebody

1138
01:24:33,065 --> 01:24:39,726
that's so opinionated on one side signals to me something that i need to look at more deeply

1139
01:24:39,726 --> 01:24:47,945
yeah right so i'm just saying that's not me right i want to watch it all i want to say the consensus

1140
01:24:47,945 --> 01:24:53,945
mechanism is perfect for that because you see the whole thing you see all of it and then i get to

1141
01:24:53,945 --> 01:25:00,045
make my own decision of how much energy and what that what that looks like but the uh but that but

1142
01:25:00,045 --> 01:25:01,266
that's actually what's changed.

1143
01:25:01,386 --> 01:25:03,685
We get to see the entire discourse.

1144
01:25:06,025 --> 01:25:06,585
Yeah.

1145
01:25:08,185 --> 01:25:12,945
Are there any signs that you are looking for

1146
01:25:12,945 --> 01:25:19,025
in the coming years that will indicate to you

1147
01:25:19,025 --> 01:25:20,846
that the paper has folded once more?

1148
01:25:21,405 --> 01:25:23,025
So that the paper is folding, right?

1149
01:25:23,206 --> 01:25:25,685
So when you said what fold we're on,

1150
01:25:25,826 --> 01:25:28,605
well, they fold 37 or 38.

1151
01:25:28,605 --> 01:25:34,565
But it's happening at such a, no faster velocity, but at that exponential trend.

1152
01:25:34,945 --> 01:25:35,465
Yeah.

1153
01:25:35,565 --> 01:25:40,666
That it feels like to our human brains, how fast things are, that are happening.

1154
01:25:40,766 --> 01:25:43,405
It's so hard to even comprehend.

1155
01:25:43,965 --> 01:25:46,126
And by the way, it can capture your fear too.

1156
01:25:46,706 --> 01:25:52,605
Because, and it can capture most people caught within a system that they've always known,

1157
01:25:52,886 --> 01:25:55,925
trying to solve the thing they care about from that system.

1158
01:25:55,925 --> 01:25:57,005
Let's use an example.

1159
01:25:58,605 --> 01:26:11,346
So if you were worried about, if you're in your bubble, you thought most humans are bad and we have to protect against those bad humans through a war machine or terrorists.

1160
01:26:11,346 --> 01:26:13,085
Most people are terrorists, right?

1161
01:26:13,525 --> 01:26:27,185
And what you would do is you would drive your control system with AI and you would drive more and more and more, more manipulation, more experimental weapons, everything else into this.

1162
01:26:27,185 --> 01:26:35,886
you'd have killer bee drones that could fly in and kill somebody right that uh that have no idea

1163
01:26:35,886 --> 01:26:40,965
that that would they would uh that would happen and you'd create this technology and everything

1164
01:26:40,965 --> 01:26:47,286
else and the same thing that you were scared of was the thing you created by creating a whole

1165
01:26:47,286 --> 01:26:54,246
bunch of it uh adversaries that were had to topple your control system because of what you did

1166
01:26:54,246 --> 01:26:56,945
and you'd have no idea it was you.

1167
01:26:58,346 --> 01:26:59,626
You would be participating.

1168
01:27:00,005 --> 01:27:05,025
And so we live in a system that is accelerating on one side like crazy.

1169
01:27:06,246 --> 01:27:10,786
You have China and the U.S. both trying to move to more control

1170
01:27:10,786 --> 01:27:12,685
to beat each other.

1171
01:27:13,425 --> 01:27:17,405
The U.S. can't win a control fight with China.

1172
01:27:17,985 --> 01:27:21,525
It could only win a freedom fight with China.

1173
01:27:24,246 --> 01:27:26,846
where the whole world wins.

1174
01:27:28,565 --> 01:27:30,425
But right now you see the opposite.

1175
01:27:30,746 --> 01:27:33,626
You see the entire venuous manipulation of a control system

1176
01:27:33,626 --> 01:27:36,945
and we're going to use Tether or we're going to use stablecoins

1177
01:27:36,945 --> 01:27:38,626
and to be able to reset this,

1178
01:27:38,626 --> 01:27:42,206
we're going to invest in all of this AI tech,

1179
01:27:42,666 --> 01:27:52,266
Palantir, all this nonsense to essentially a surveillance state.

1180
01:27:54,246 --> 01:28:04,365
I spent some time living in Colombia and Morocco, and I just recently got back from Balaji's network school in Malaysia.

1181
01:28:04,365 --> 01:28:14,105
and being outside of the United States gives you a much more clear take on this where you see

1182
01:28:14,105 --> 01:28:21,465
people in countries that are not China that are not the United States and they look at the global

1183
01:28:21,465 --> 01:28:28,865
situation and they are cheering very hard for the United States to for lack of a better term get

1184
01:28:28,865 --> 01:28:36,025
their shit figured out because if they don't then they know that it will be china and you said this

1185
01:28:36,025 --> 01:28:41,505
so like that's such a perfect way to say this is that the u.s can't win a control fight with china

1186
01:28:41,505 --> 01:28:47,666
they can only win a freedom a freedom fight but but but just about all participants of the united

1187
01:28:47,666 --> 01:28:52,905
states don't know that they're in uh they're they're they're in a control fight so when i

1188
01:28:52,905 --> 01:28:59,365
mention all those people and i when i mentioned most the podcasters most of the elon mass all

1189
01:28:59,365 --> 01:29:03,706
like just anybody in that they're fighting a control fight

1190
01:29:03,706 --> 01:29:10,505
they're all they're all inside a control fight believing they live in a freedom fight

1191
01:29:10,505 --> 01:29:19,465
what would you so what would you do is instilled in that control because he's uh when he talks

1192
01:29:19,465 --> 01:29:22,465
but the network state and all these coins and everything else,

1193
01:29:22,525 --> 01:29:28,565
he's still fully in it, where the protocol is eradicating that.

1194
01:29:28,865 --> 01:29:32,025
So there's much higher odds, if that continues,

1195
01:29:33,405 --> 01:29:38,786
that a country like El Salvador paves the way for what that looks like.

1196
01:29:38,825 --> 01:29:41,645
And then other countries from a bottom-up movement

1197
01:29:41,645 --> 01:29:46,185
pave that way before one of the bigger countries sees it.

1198
01:29:46,185 --> 01:29:49,706
is a much higher likelihood,

1199
01:29:49,905 --> 01:29:52,565
just like all innovation has bottom up.

1200
01:29:54,865 --> 01:29:58,905
So the freedom fight is won just by individuals opt-in.

1201
01:29:59,206 --> 01:30:03,065
Nation states also opt-in one by one from the bottom up.

1202
01:30:03,346 --> 01:30:05,545
And that's how the freedom fight is conducted,

1203
01:30:05,746 --> 01:30:08,206
just welcoming into the fold other countries

1204
01:30:08,206 --> 01:30:12,605
that want to get on board with a freedom infrastructure like Bitcoin.

1205
01:30:12,605 --> 01:30:18,166
But even before that, it starts with individuals and it starts with individuals.

1206
01:30:18,525 --> 01:30:26,965
So think in the worst state governments and such, there's always a black market that is the free market rate.

1207
01:30:28,766 --> 01:30:30,346
That's what's happening right now.

1208
01:30:30,505 --> 01:30:38,766
So there is a black market now with more and more privacy with FedE and that most people don't even know that exists yet.

1209
01:30:39,166 --> 01:30:42,485
And they can take that and it's going to explode.

1210
01:30:42,605 --> 01:30:50,926
because because and and as that explodes because you can't control this and what ends up happening

1211
01:30:50,926 --> 01:30:58,666
is the cost to attack when when these are so buttoned down the cost to attack explodes

1212
01:30:58,666 --> 01:31:04,525
and so what what you can do for a while is you can run the cost of attack and you can jail

1213
01:31:04,525 --> 01:31:11,045
jail freedom advocates and everything else but as more and more pop up and every single person can

1214
01:31:11,045 --> 01:31:18,185
now is is able to launch their own can't jail them all and so is so and and that on a system

1215
01:31:18,185 --> 01:31:23,445
is then then somebody says wait i'm going to accept it

1216
01:31:23,445 --> 01:31:29,085
because then they take advantage in the accepting it rather than fighting it

1217
01:31:29,085 --> 01:31:37,365
so but it is driven by people not government yeah this is a this is what jason lowry helped

1218
01:31:37,365 --> 01:31:45,185
us understand was that with bitcoin violence you no one can take your bitcoin it has to be given

1219
01:31:45,185 --> 01:31:52,306
and it can be given under duress but because of that technology violence and coercion does not

1220
01:31:52,306 --> 01:32:00,545
scale and therefore collaboration supersedes competition as the way to get to the top

1221
01:32:00,545 --> 01:32:06,045
so so so what we're saying right now and you could say what do you go to f is and what we're

1222
01:32:06,045 --> 01:32:14,346
we just invented um not just us but the other bitcoin company capitals too we just invented a

1223
01:32:14,346 --> 01:32:20,626
new model that is right for the time that we're we're building in that drives honestly and as a

1224
01:32:20,626 --> 01:32:25,965
result and why these are having lots of success lots of success inside the portfolio company is

1225
01:32:25,965 --> 01:32:33,545
growing too is we're so early in that model what that like what would it look like you would build

1226
01:32:33,545 --> 01:32:40,405
what wasn't there for people that didn't know they needed it yeah by the time it was needed

1227
01:32:40,405 --> 01:32:46,325
yeah instead of building the faster horse you're building the car yeah you're instead of building

1228
01:32:46,325 --> 01:32:50,346
within that existing system and all of the nonsense that's inside that existing system

1229
01:32:50,346 --> 01:32:56,746
you're building a new one yeah you've talked um you've talked about how you you still try to read

1230
01:32:56,746 --> 01:33:06,505
like 50 books a year or so. Obviously, we like books. Are there any that you feel were really

1231
01:33:06,505 --> 01:33:12,626
paramount to your understanding, to your journey, to your mindset, to the way that you approach the

1232
01:33:12,626 --> 01:33:20,726
world with such, you know, such kindness and optimism? And truly, the message of this entire

1233
01:33:20,726 --> 01:33:27,545
conversation I feel has been like empowerment, um, that, that you hold the key that you are able to,

1234
01:33:27,545 --> 01:33:34,226
um, to change your world that no one else can. It has to be you. Is, are there any books that you

1235
01:33:34,226 --> 01:33:39,306
would point people to or point us to that you felt really helped you out along the way?

1236
01:33:39,306 --> 01:33:44,825
Oh, how would I do this? Cause every time I get asked this, it's like, yeah,

1237
01:33:44,825 --> 01:33:50,945
block there's a different there's a different answer yeah exactly so why don't i send you a

1238
01:33:50,945 --> 01:33:56,926
couple uh just after this that'll be in line with some of the talking uh here oh we'd love that yeah

1239
01:33:56,926 --> 01:34:00,645
we'd love that thank you so much and maybe just what are you reading right now

1240
01:34:01,485 --> 01:34:06,525
well um what am i reading right now so again same thing on

1241
01:34:06,525 --> 01:34:16,065
i'm reading two bitcoin books that are new ones that have been sent to me but uh um

1242
01:34:16,065 --> 01:34:25,426
buy then build not not particularly it's just okay yeah yeah um

1243
01:34:25,426 --> 01:34:31,085
uh how people read my big toe

1244
01:34:31,085 --> 01:34:34,886
it's a five part

1245
01:34:34,886 --> 01:34:38,306
five part book

1246
01:34:38,306 --> 01:34:41,145
I read Signature in the Cell just before that

1247
01:34:41,145 --> 01:34:43,626
which is actually both different sides

1248
01:34:43,626 --> 01:34:47,386
of the religious side

1249
01:34:47,386 --> 01:34:48,905
Signature in the Cell would be

1250
01:34:48,905 --> 01:34:50,025
it's religion

1251
01:34:50,025 --> 01:34:52,565
I think that would be consciousness

1252
01:34:52,565 --> 01:34:55,386
oh cool

1253
01:34:55,386 --> 01:34:58,426
I typically do that

1254
01:34:58,426 --> 01:35:03,386
if I think one thing, I'll read everything on the other and vice versa.

1255
01:35:04,806 --> 01:35:05,585
That's great.

1256
01:35:05,945 --> 01:35:06,666
Yeah, that's excellent.

1257
01:35:06,945 --> 01:35:08,525
You've got a lot of monger in you.

1258
01:35:08,746 --> 01:35:09,025
Invert.

1259
01:35:10,085 --> 01:35:10,266
Yeah.

1260
01:35:11,226 --> 01:35:12,226
It's fantastic.

1261
01:35:12,766 --> 01:35:15,306
We, unless you have anything else.

1262
01:35:15,505 --> 01:35:19,505
I just become so conscious that you've given so generously with your time,

1263
01:35:19,565 --> 01:35:22,126
of your time, that there's a million things we could ask,

1264
01:35:22,185 --> 01:35:24,685
but I just, I want to let you get back to your family

1265
01:35:24,685 --> 01:35:26,905
and get back to contributing more.

1266
01:35:26,905 --> 01:35:33,786
Thank you so much for bringing a smile to our face, giving us this time and just giving us your wisdom.

1267
01:35:34,065 --> 01:35:34,266
Yes.

1268
01:35:34,465 --> 01:35:40,065
Obviously, sharing with us, being vulnerable and honest as we had this conversation.

1269
01:35:41,905 --> 01:35:45,965
Yeah, you guys, and I honestly say that this has been my pleasure.

1270
01:35:45,965 --> 01:36:01,445
I think you guys, by poking on some of these things at a deeper level, will help your audience, help others go to see it in themselves and to move forward or deepen the conversation where it needs to go.

1271
01:36:02,545 --> 01:36:02,945
So thank you.

1272
01:36:02,945 --> 01:36:03,365
Yeah, thank you.