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All right, so Lucas and I are here today.

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We are on the final chapter of Softwar, a novel theory on power projection and the national strategic significance of Bitcoin.

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It has been an intellectual odyssey.

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I hope you've joined us.

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We went through the previous five chapters, and it's all cumulative to, of course, the recommendations and conclusions that we get today.

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We'll do a little summary here, and then we're going to go through the recommendations and conclusions.

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rather the recommendations one by one and parse them out.

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So the core argument of this thesis, I've kind of stated it this way in the past,

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is something like Bitcoin represents a soft, as in non-kinetic, non-lethal form of warfare

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that could be used to counteract the dysfunctions of abstract power hierarchies

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emerging in digital age society.

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So that's an important thing.

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The abstract power-based hierarchies, these can be nation states,

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software-based corporations like Google or Facebook. And the nature of an abstract power

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hierarchy, or the nature of abstract power, rather, is that it is imaginary. It's based on

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the designation of rank or authority within a belief system, like politicians, judges, priests,

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software admins. They determine by designation, they're designated the authority to determine who

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gets access to resources or rights within the system. The admin is the one who kind of divvies

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out access to the digital resources within a piece of software. And a judge does it perhaps

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within democratic society adjudicating rival claims. In the past, so the nature of an abstract

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power-based hierarchy was that the power was imaginary. It was an imaginary form of power.

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alongside that we also have of course physical power we have armies um we have wars we have

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revolutions we have the actual exercise of kinetic or lethal physical power that's projected so

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this to do a quick run through up to chapter five then that was kind of a statement of the

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core thesis and what an abstract power-based hierarchy is and what physical power is um this

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This whole endeavor begins in chapter two, we went through the methodology as a grounded theory analysis, which is a way of doing a qualitative form of analysis. So it's not just quantitative, kind of technically parsing what Bitcoin is, but it's qualitative. It's looking at what the implications might be.

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In grounded theory methodology, you don't begin with hypothesis. Instead, you set out with a sort of general idea that you're going to create a theoretical framework from which later hypotheses can be deducted and then analyzed.

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So the grounded theory methodology, and we saw this as we explored the book, it requires a sort of like indiscriminate, broad-based investigation, a sort of courage to really go outside of one's kind of professional domain and explore and refine your explorations as you move along, hoping that everything is going to coalesce into a final theory.

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That theory for Lowry's work here is power projection theory. So chapters three, four and five are developments of power projection theory, first in nature, then in human society, then within cyberspace, within human society.

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So in chapter three, power projection tactics in nature. I mean, we learned that power projection is used by animals as a way to delineate claims to resources, power literally in watts, the ability to, in the real world, exercise power.

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So in order to control resources, you have to kind of beat off the rival claimants, ward them off. And so that requires a form of physical power projection. We got an evolutionary account that led up to pack animals evolving where cooperation was a form of physical power projection they used in order to compete with other animals.

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Wolves travel in packs because that's more powerful when they're getting resources from other animals in the environment.

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But it also leads to this issue where you then have to divide resources, intraspecies, intrapack.

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You have to have a dominance hierarchy in order to determine who is going to, within the wolf pack, get certain resources.

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Within nature, these dominance hierarchies, intraspecies, intrapack, are based on power projection.

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There are kind of the wolves will scrabble, they'll snarl at each other, but they'll usually stop short of killing.

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They dominate and then they back away.

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We saw with deer, they actually develop an apparatus for physical power projection in a non-injurious form in the form of antlers so that they can have these jousting competitions in a way that's not so prone to injury.

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yet still again they're projecting physical power to determine amongst them who was going to get

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feeding and breeding rights which led to the systemic benefit of the pack because it would

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tend to in the long term lead to a more fit pack from there we moved on to chapter four power

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projection tactics in human society as a continuum again um evolutionarily from we are just animals

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and so the evolutionary story is where we depart as well we also though as humans developed the

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capacity for abstract thought, a way to be better hunters.

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We actually became the apex predator because we developed a theory of mind and could imagine

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what other species were thinking or how they might act.

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And so we could then better kind of develop our hunting strategies to take down the bison

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as we cooperated in a group with other humans.

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We then, we're pack animals too, humans are.

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we began to cooperate and we scaled up our cooperation beyond what most animals can really

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do because our power for abstract thought allowed us to develop belief systems people could then

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you didn't have to formally know somebody or know their name or have them be family in order to

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know that you can trust them in a certain sense as as part of a cooperative endeavor instead you

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You can just say, that person's part of my tribe.

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That person's part of my clan.

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That person's part of my religion.

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You could have a belief system where you all could subscribe to.

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That belief system could scale up cooperation.

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And we get the flowering of these bigger and bigger human cooperative packs.

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These belief systems were interesting because they were abstract.

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And they gave rise to a new form of power, of abstract power to settle intraspecies dominance hierarchies to establish a pecking order to determine who would get the rights within the tribe, clan or group.

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These belief systems, again, I mentioned earlier, we would designate a chief, a politician, a judge, a priest, maybe a shaman really early on in order to tell a story about who got what and for what reason.

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The issue with this, and this gets us to an important aspect of the theory, is that abstract power hierarchies come with kind of some built-in dysfunctions.

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I mentioned earlier that power, that hierarchy, dominance hierarchies based on physical power projection led to these systemic benefits of selecting for the strongest, the most intelligent, allocating breeding and feeding rights to them.

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And so long term, you get a more agile, adroit and more lethal pack, lethal, at least more evolutionarily fit.

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With an abstract power hierarchy, you're no longer meritocratically selecting for the projection of power.

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Instead, again, it's a belief system that is kind of abstractly determining who gets these feeding and breeding rights.

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And so people then tend to become self-domesticated.

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We are averse to physical confrontation. We have a theory of mind. We don't want to see our brothers and sisters suffer. And so if there's an abstract belief system that's kind of giving us a class, a role, a story about what our rights are, we tend to accept those and self-domesticate rather than stand up for ourselves in a sense and fight for more rights.

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So abstract power hierarchies, I mentioned they come with these kind of inbuilt dysfunctions of kind of a weakness towards external predation. They're not meritocratic. So the whole group can become weaker and become subject to invasion from the outside.

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Also, there can emerge a ruling class that exploits and abuses this kind of predatory systemic predators over the group itself, the people at the top of the hierarchy, leads to oppression, which can lead to an uprising revolution from within.

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So in these two ways, both the invasion from without that kind of devours a weak abstract power hierarchy or the revolution from within that, again, arises to resist the oppression based purely on imaginary power of a ruling class.

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Both of these are projections of physical power that is remedying the dysfunction of an abstract power hierarchy.

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abstract power hierarchies though even though we have physical power kind of fine-tuning them

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they don't disappear in fact they continue to scale up our cooperation um and we get into you

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know from clans to cities to city states to nation states what what physical power does do though is

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over time at least has the tendency to move from for example monarchy to democracy these um

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revolutions, these periodic revolutions

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to remove oppressive abstract power

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hierarchies, again, can remedy

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the dysfunction a bit because they can at least discipline

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these continually

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scaling abstract power hierarchies

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because they have to, the rules

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have to maintain a bit of fear

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of those that they rule over because they know

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the story of history of how many

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kings were eaten by the people that they were

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predatory over. So that

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leaves us at chapter five, power projection tactics

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in cyberspace.

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Basically,

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Abstract power-based hierarchies are based on a belief system that is created, a story that is told that people then subscribe to and kind of opt in to believe and agree to their role within it.

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Software then in the digital age is a digital form of a belief system.

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It's a set of encoded permissions like a rule of law that determines rank, who gets what digital resource for those who kind of opt in to the software who download it.

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Such as, you know, if you join something like Facebook or Google, you're at the mercy of that belief system.

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You both operate according to its rules within it.

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And also you can your account can be shuttered if you don't follow the rules.

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Essentially, admin is the admin of the software is a sort of Theronic God King.

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Like in the past, they have absolute control.

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And not only that, but we know that they collect our personal data, which then in kind of very insidious and extensive ways,

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that can be used to surveil, influence, control, or cancel a person.

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This is all abstract power.

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Again, this is not physical power that these hierarchies,

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these abstract power-based software hierarchies are using on people,

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the surveillance, the control, the canceling of a person,

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the deleting of their account.

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This is all imaginary power for those that opt into the software.

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in the in the past physical power would have been used to kind of curtail these excesses if a piece

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of software becomes too oppressive and begins to delete the accounts of people that aren't towing a

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certain line um but how do you project physical power against a piece of software how do you

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use what in the past has been the literal projection of physical force a war an invasion

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a violent revolution. How do you do that against software? We have degenerating and increasingly

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oppressive abstract power-based hierarchies in the digital age, in cyberspace, but seemingly no

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way to discipline them through the use of physical power. They're becoming transnational,

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becoming bigger than nation states. It also seems like we do have ways to use physical power,

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of course, but these ways aren't usable directly in cyberspace. And when you use them, the forms

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of kinetic warfare that we have are quickly scaling out of practical use. We've arrived at

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the point where we now have strategic nuclear arms that, again, it's mutually assured destruction

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if someone pulls the trigger on using them. So we've arrived at these kinetic ceilings where

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The use of physical real world force over land, sea or air seems kind of existentially risky.

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So how do we do this again in cyberspace?

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How do we project physical power so as to curtail oppressive abstract power hierarchies, arrive Bitcoin or more specifically the proof of work aspect of the Bitcoin protocol?

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This is a piece of technology that makes information bits physically costly.

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It initiates a competition for admin rights through the expenditure of real-world physical power.

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Everyone can participate in the protocol in a zero-trust, permissionless, egalitarian manner.

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There's no god-king that sits over it.

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In fact, according to Lowry, is maybe a new form of warfare he calls softwar, a play on software.

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software being the ability through the proof of work protocol to project physical power

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non-kinetically into cyberspace in a way that's infinitely scalable unlike the nuclear stalemate

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we can continue adding hash rate continue feeding energy into the proof of work aspect of the

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protocol it's also weirdly cooperative in that both our enemies and our friends were all using

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the same protocol. So this, again, is kind of the overarching thesis is that soft war may be a novel

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form of warfare that we can use physical power in cyberspace, and it may have, through the proof

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of work protocol, kind of other emergent benefits for society. This brings us to chapter six,

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which we're going to talk about in detail today. Chapter six kind of has three parts. There's

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The first part's the key takeaways.

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Some of the key takeaways.

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There's so many takeaways, of course, from such a thoroughly grounded and deep book.

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But the key takeaways in Lowry's estimation, followed by a set of explicit recommendations, and then concluding the whole chapter with kind of closing thoughts.

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So we'll go through – first, I'll just do a quick summary of the key takeaways, and then the closing thoughts.

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They're kind of similar.

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And then Lucas and I will hash out the different recommendations and go through each one individually.

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So the key takeaways, as I read this chapter, Lowry's statement of what the key takeaways were, is that first, Bitcoin is a physical security network that is named after its first widely adopted use case.

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So this is a point he emphasizes throughout the book. We call it Bitcoin, but that's kind of just because Satoshi Nakamoto, the pseudonymous author of the white paper, the person who launched the protocol, of course, he described it as a, he named it Bitcoin, described these units as coins, and kind of therefore we come upon it now as Bitcoin with seemingly a purpose already built into the metaphor we use to describe it as a monetary protocol.

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And so Lowry wants us to kind of see it with new eyes, get past this blinding metaphor.

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And one of the ways he really does this is to kind of point out that proof of work precedes Bitcoin.

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There's a cybersecurity – proof of work as a cybersecurity piece of technology has a history that goes back to 1993, goes further back than Bitcoin as a monetary protocol.

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Another insight is, as Lowry says, he says that the goal of the thesis was to highlight the 21st century vulnerability to centrally controlled computer networks and centrally controlled software.

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As we talked about, these are abstract power-based hierarchies.

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And these types of – and historically for humans, abstract power-based hierarchies have broken down and been the subject of war and revolution.

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so Lowry is saying that we really need a way to defend against these in the digital realm

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and we can do that then through perhaps converting a globally distributed power grid

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into a planetary scale computer that uses proof of work to allow power projection into cyberspace

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he also talks about another key insight from his thesis is that war and revolution

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They do have emergent benefits. We all see the terror and the horror of war, the cost and blood, the fratricide. But Lowry really wants to reorient us to, hey, we can't ignore that historically war and revolution have had benefits.

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they have curtailed oppressive abstract power hierarchies and prevented their expansion and

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control over all of the centralizing of power over too many resources. So war has at least

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tended to decentralize power and make it less oppressive. Another really interesting point he

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mentions here is that historically physical confrontation really, if you kind of look at

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history, when we've had physical confrontation, that was preceded by an abstract power-based

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hierarchy that became too abusive or oppressive. So when there are these oppressive hierarchies,

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physical confrontation tends to reemerge in the form of a new war. And so Bitcoin too,

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we should see the emergence of that in its historical contingency as a form of physical

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resistance against, at the time, an abstract power-based hierarchy. Bitcoin is already a

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revolution. It's already a form of resistance, even though we've been calling it money. Whatever it was,

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was the response to what was already an exploitative financial system and a predatory

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abstract-based power hierarchy in the digital realm. Another key insight for Lowry is that

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So Bitcoin is reverse optimized, which is just to say usually computers and computer programming is done so that information bits become less and less costly.

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Computer chips get smaller and smaller, quicker and quicker.

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And each individual bite becomes less energy intensive.

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Each individual bit.

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Bitcoin is the opposite way.

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The proof of work protocol is all about making it more costly to operate, making each of the bits more costly.

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This is a good response, by the way, to someone who makes an environmental argument against Bitcoin.

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One of those responses could be that the fact that Bitcoin is energy intensive is a feature, not a bug.

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It's like antlers.

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Again, antlers might seem to be kind of pointless or ornamental, a use of energy that's not needed.

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It might seem to be better if a deer just had a single horn out of its head to ward off predators.

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But we know that there are complex emergent benefits to having this branching structure on its head because it can do these jousting competitions, intraspecies in a way that reduces harm to those that participate in the jousting protocol.

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Another complex emergent benefit of making cyberspace more costly, a key insight from Lowry, is that it makes cyberspace more real, more scarce and decentralized.

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the changing nature another another insight is that the changing nature of technology

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means that the forms of power projection are going to change we have developed the development of

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computers and code um and of course when you look at human history you have vast expanses where of

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course there wasn't writing and so there was just you know spoken language and warfare then we got

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to a shorter period where written writing is developed. And there's still, even though that

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enables abstract power-based hierarchies to scale and spread quicker, there's still

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more available to discipline and break and decentralize them. Now we have computers in

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code in even shorter amount of time, abstract power-based hierarchies can scale even quicker.

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And yet seemingly we don't have the way to discipline and decentralize these transnational

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communities that are creating policies written in computer language. And so given that, what now,

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how to project power in the information age, to quote Lowry on a key insight, he says,

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the key insight of power projection theory can be summarized in two sentences. Technology like

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Bitcoin could represent the discovery of an unprecedented power projection tactic,

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which gives people a new way to establish their dominance hierarchies and physically secure the

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properties and policies they value. This technology has the potential to disrupt human

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polities, a polity being like a society and its physical form of governance. This technology has

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the potential to disrupt human polities at their very foundation by changing the way our species

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manages one of its most precious resources, information itself, and all of the knowledge

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and abstract power derived from it.

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So this destabilization of disruption of human polities,

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we might call a strangler pattern.

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This is another insight from Lowry.

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So the strangler pattern, the strangler fig tree,

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is a type of plant that grows around an existing tree

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and eventually kind of kills it and replaces the tree altogether.

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It's a sort of progressive envelopment

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where it's not all at once.

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And it's actually also a concept in computer science

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where it's a software design strategy

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where you kind of gradually replace a legacy system

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with a new one and kind of migrate services over piecemeal

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instead of doing it all at once.

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That's the strangler pattern.

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You're strangling slowly by leeching functionality

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into a new system.

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So the thought is that Bitcoin could be that for the internet.

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its disruption of a human polity could be that it becomes a new backbone or architecture for the

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internet that operates as a strangler vine leaches functionality from the internet from cyberspace

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migrating services first the financial service migrates perhaps then after that things like free

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speech um and you know anything else that can be valuable information which perhaps could be

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anything. Which leads us to a final insight, again, that I think really shows the breadth of

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the thesis, but also the stark implications of what Bitcoin is. The final insight is this is

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about reorganizing not just cyberspace, but society itself. So to quote Lowry,

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this technology isn't just disruptive to monetary systems, it's disruptive to how our species

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answers the existentially important question of managing its resources.

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Proof-of-work technologies like Bitcoin could change the dynamics of 10,000 years worth of

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physical power competitions, consequently disrupting how societies organize themselves

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and shifting the global balance of power.

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And so just to zoom in on that line, disrupting how societies organize themselves,

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Lowry says later, quote, with the global adoption of cyberspace combined with the global adoption

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of an electro-cyber form of physical power competition enabled by proof-of-work technologies

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like Bitcoin, humanity could be at the dawn of creating a completely new type of polity

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that it has never seen before, a new or adjusted type of governance system which enables the

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formation of an organized society that resembles something on par with, or perhaps even superior to,

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a traditional government. With the emergence of cyberspace and a new way to project power in,

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from, and through cyberspace, humanity could be crossing the event horizon of a highly impactful

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discovery akin to the discovery of agriculture. These technologies could reshape our understanding

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of what the term national defense means by changing what national means, because this

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technology could change how abstract power hierarchies are formed in the first place.

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I just want to highlight how remarkable that is. The idea that it could change what national defense is because it's changing the whole idea of what it means to be a nation. The nation used to be what secured for us all of our property rights. But what does it mean when a decentralized, zero-trust, permissionless protocol that anybody can subscribe to is what begins to secure those property rights, not the nation state?

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So the next parts of recommendations, I'll skip over that and then we'll circle back.

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The closing thoughts is that, Lowry's closing thoughts is that first, Bitcoin is about balance of power, not about money.

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That should be obvious again from the strangler pattern where it becomes this new architecture and disrupts society.

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it's taking it's about taking control over precious resource bits and out of the hands

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of people with imaginary power which can be both nation states and also god king software

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administrators of transnational communities based in software another closing thought and this is

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good if one ever becomes skeptical of certain aspects of this theory is that humans are apex

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predators. And so if you think we can have an abstract power-based hierarchy, you're both

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ignoring the extensive, without any sort of way to discipline or control it through power,

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you're ignoring the extensive history of the kind of revolution against these types of hierarchies,

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and also just the evolutionary fact that we are apex predators that we will continue to exploit belief systems unless some people physically constrain those who would abuse those systems Programmers creating belief systems regarding some of our most precious resources right now are consolidating power leading to classes of kind of a technocratic god king whose abstract power is derived from the software we use

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Again, these are apex predators.

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People are not to blame.

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They're simply going to do this.

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And so to be real, we need to acknowledge that and acknowledge that physical power needs to be projected. And again, in the cyberspace, Bitcoin seems to be the way that this might happen. He briefly touches on the game theory, very briefly, of this stating that what are you going to do with Bitcoin then? You can't ignore it. You can't stop other people from using it. So third option, you embrace it or you suffer what others do and you don't.

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And he concludes with his kind of the metaphor that summarizes a key aspect of his view is that which that Bitcoin is antlers.

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It's a way to settle dominance hierarchies over our valuable resources using a globally adoptable.

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It's available to everybody around the world.

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Non-lethal because non-kinetic physical power projection technology that reaches into the virtual.

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It's not just a technological breakthrough, he says, but an evolutionary breakthrough.

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That's another good quote, so I want to read it here. This is towards the conclusion of the conclusion.

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Quote, if we could figure out a way to set up our dominance hierarchies over our valuable resources using a globally adoptable, non-lethal physical power projection technology, that would not just represent a technological breakthrough that could change the nature of warfighting.

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that would be an evolutionary breakthrough breakthrough it would represent the evolution

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of a technology that would literally empower humans to establish interest species dominance

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hierarchies and determine the right balance of power dynamics using non-lethal electric physical

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power rather than kinetic physical power all while still retaining the complex emergent benefits of

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physical power-based resource control structures. And so he has a quote from Robert Breedlove that

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I think embodies this really well. The quote is, innovation is non-biological evolution.

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Evolution is biological innovation. They're the same process, just different substrates.

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So in the digital age, in cyberspace, perhaps our evolution continues with the innovation that is

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Bitcoin as a new form of evolution in the substrate that is cyberspace.

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That's a summary of the first and the third part of the last chapter, the key insights

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and the closing thoughts.

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So before we jump into the recommendations portion, that's a lot, Lucas.

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I mean, he definitely doesn't shy away from grand conclusions.

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What did you take from that?

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Well, first off, happy opening day of deer season, by the way.

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Get yourself some antlers.

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Very fitting that we're having this conversation today.

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So let me give my quick summary.

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So we've got this guy whose job is to determine how the next war is going to be fought with the knowledge that no war is ever fought the same as the one before it.

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Kind of the coolest job ever.

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but also kind of terrifying because you're literally trying to think of, you know, you've watched this progression.

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Or sorry, let me not comment on that and then just move on because I'll get there.

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So he's got this job and he's supposed to figure out how the next war is fought.

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And then he goes, well, in order to figure this out, because we've not been very successful at predicting how the next war would be fought, because we have not been very successful at recognizing the technology that already existed and being able to assign it as a weapon instead of whatever purpose it was being used for upon invention.

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You know, the airplane being a fun example, black powder being a fun example. They treated people with indigestion with black powder and didn't use it for a couple hundred years as a power projection source.

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So he says, instead of trying to just ask the question, what I'm going to do is I'm going to use this grounded theory methodology and I'm going to basically zoom out and squint a little bit.

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And I'm going to start literally, you know, in true, fully comprehensive fashion, I'm going to start literally with single-celled organisms.

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And I'm then going to walk forward through time.

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And I'm going to see if there are patterns that emerge.

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And it turns out that the pattern emerges that all organisms, plants, animals, amoebas, single cell, all organisms do the same thing.

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They project power in an active or a passive fashion that secures their resources and the access to them.

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And they do so with increasing amounts of power until a stalemate is met.

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And when a stalemate is met, in nature, you have balance.

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You have the natural order of things.

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So once you get out of nature and you get into humans, then you've got this capability for imagination.

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And with this ability for long-term thought and planning, then we have the ability to then move past the stalemate by innovating a new type of power projection.

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Like a deer, if it were to do the same thing that humans did is it would have antlers and then it would go back to the shop and it would come back with AKs strapped to antlers.

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And then it would murder everything except one would get away and that one would go to the shop and it would come back with, you know, flamethrowers and missiles and heat seeking stuff strapped to its antlers.

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And it would just accelerate.

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That is what humans have done, is that we did the same sort of power projection that is seen in nature.

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And then when it got to the point that we developed consciousness and long-term planning, we took it to a new level where we started to break out of the natural order of things and enter into this increasing arms race of being able to project more power.

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And each time there's a stalemate, I think this is a really important comment or thought.

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Each time there's a stalemate, you have peace.

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And that's really interesting to me.

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And the reason that's interesting to me is that that reveals that war is not fought over ideologies.

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War is fought over resources.

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Because if the ideology was the thing, you would just, so if the ideology was the thing, then if you got the new technology first, you would obliterate everybody that you could with it and keep doing it and never stop without regard for the resources.

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but when you enter into the stalemate what we see is peace and so that to me says that

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really what is happening is that we are fighting over resources at the top level but then

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sold a story in order to in order to sell the belief of why because we have to have the enemy

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we have to you know and that's what propaganda has always been which is you're you're trying to

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make the opposition subhuman in the way that they appear so that you can hate them, so that you can

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fight them. But the decisions being made at the top, the people sending people to die, they're

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fighting over resources, but they're fighting over resources in order to use the power of the

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resources to strengthen their abstract power-based hierarchy. And this was a really interesting

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revelation, I think, which was that in the race for Bitcoin, it can happen very, very fast.

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And speed is a trait of dictatorships and kings and monarchs. If you have only one person at the

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top with a lot of power, they have the benefit of being able to move very quickly.

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And that benefit is also a drawback because they can also oppress very quickly.

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But so the United States is, in terms of its decision-making apparatus, is really behind

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the eight ball because we were designed to be slow in acting so that we would be slow in making

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mistakes, which is arguably a really good method. You know, if I think if you only try not to screw

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things up, then that is usually a good way to preserve something. So as long as you're starting

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with something good and you just say, this is good, we're not going to mess it up, and

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you design your system that way, I think that makes sense.

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So you can't really fault it.

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But anyways, we're definitely behind the eight ball.

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The difference here is that in adopting this new technology, I likened it to the race for

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the nuclear bomb.

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Both sides knew that they had to get to the same destination.

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Both sides were putting resources towards getting to the new destination.

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The one that got it first used it immediately, and then it's never been used since.

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And the reason being was that during the piece that came right after, you created this stalemate again.

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And so you're not, you're not in getting, you've, you've got somewhat type of piece.

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Of course, then we have the development of proxy wars and stuff.

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But anyways, the, the point to be made is that there is at the base level to the, to

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the people who are sold the story that they go to war, that is selling ideology.

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That's propaganda at the top level where the decisions are made.

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It is a battle over resources.

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But it's a battle over resources to enforce that specific type of power hierarchy.

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And therefore, I think that is where I really understand how adamant and urgent and loud Jason is trying to be on this subject because it's not going to be a stalemate.

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So when both sides have bombs, they have a stalemate because they're so efficient at what they do, they're too inefficient to use.

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But with Bitcoin, it's not, this was my kind of idea from chapter one or two, I can't remember, but dead money kills.

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In the same way, you've got all this potential energy, all these warheads that are built up, and in order to impart power, they have to be released.

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The difference with Bitcoin is that it's not dead, it's alive. So instead of reaching a natural plateau of a stalemate, if you're the last one to jump on board to Bitcoin, then you just get your ass kicked for a thousand years every second of the day for eternity.

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And the only way that you can change that balance of power is to exert or is to do something that is valuable higher up the road, you know, to literally outcompete.

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And this is, you know, so this is, he comments on how this rearranges society.

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And the way that I have thought about how it rearranges society from a corporate standpoint, from a business standpoint, is that if you no longer have to overcome the cost of capital being a 12% loss because of inflation, then you are no longer tied to growth.

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growth is just consumption so what we're doing is we're iterating on um a current process in order

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to just try and get more out of it and and growth for growth's sake is not is not good it just it

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increases uh it miss it misallocates capital because it is continuously trying to make a faster

355
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horse, not invent the car. And so if we adopt this, then we'll see corporations that their goal,

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instead of becoming a quarterly goal of, I need to grow 3% this quarter, it will become like

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Michael Saylor's company, a thousand year goal. Don't lose the Bitcoin. This is your goal. Your

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goal is to have, um, this strategic reserve of this very powerful, um, highest order of property.

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The only thing that you can actually own, which means that you have to give it away. It can't be

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taken from you. Um, so yeah, the, the, the premise changes from, um, instead of out compete next

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week, next month, next year, it's compete against yourself to not die.

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It's interesting because that falls into, you see Brian Johnson, don't die on, on X

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a lot now, who's real good friends with Bology, who is a big time Bitcoin, Bitcoin dude.

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So interesting thoughts in there.

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Yeah.

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I just think that that was, that's kind of fascinating to think about, which is that

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that mutually assured destruction is proof that we fight for resources, not beliefs,

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but it's resources to enforce the beliefs.

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And yeah, we're in a position where if this is the case, then it's already been adopted.

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It's already, we're already kind of fairly late in the game in terms of recognizing it

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because the actual innovation was proof of work.

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So 1993, 1996 era or whatever.

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Proof of work is the black powder that was ignored

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and Bitcoin is the cannon and the cannonball

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that when you put that together,

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then you're able to do something

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that shatters the opposition, I think.

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So anyways, that's where I'll leave it.

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Bitcoin as a Manhattan Project is interesting because, in a sense, what has happened is the bomb has already went off.

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And we are all facing away from the light, looking at our shadows, wondering what's going on, seeing our shadows get longer and longer, seeing the world change around us.

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It's like proof of work was the Manhattan Project.

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It was done in relative obscurity by computer scientists.

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It was then a series of nuclear bombs were set off by Adam Back and Hal Finney testing it, testing it.

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And then Satoshi Nakamoto successfully has the – what do you call that?

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What's that one in Oppenheimer, the final test where it's a success?

386
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There's a name for it.

387
00:43:51,155 --> 00:43:52,155
Oh, yeah.

388
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I know what you're talking about, but I don't know the name either.

389
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I don't either.

390
00:43:55,495 --> 00:44:00,995
But in any case, that was the absolute – the test of it, the realization of it.

391
00:44:01,055 --> 00:44:02,535
So the bomb was already went off.

392
00:44:02,535 --> 00:44:06,615
The Manhattan Project concluded in 2009.

393
00:44:07,135 --> 00:44:11,515
And now it's just, can we recognize that the world has changed?

394
00:44:12,135 --> 00:44:14,975
Can we recognize, I mean, Paul Revere is already late.

395
00:44:15,195 --> 00:44:18,935
Like the revolution is already ongoing at this point.

396
00:44:19,275 --> 00:44:23,335
It's just, will we even realize that there's already a war being fought?

397
00:44:23,435 --> 00:44:28,155
I mean, if Bitcoin is bit power, the protocol is already operating.

398
00:44:28,155 --> 00:44:44,115
And again, historically, if physical power is projected as the result of an abstract power-based hierarchy, then Bitcoin was already the shot across the bow. Bitcoin was already the projection of physical power.

399
00:44:44,115 --> 00:44:59,995
I mean, we already had an oppressive, abstract, power-based hierarchy that we all felt, that we all feel, which is the financial system. Whether for you was the subprime mortgage crisis, whether it was Occupy Wall Street, this was percolating.

400
00:44:59,995 --> 00:45:11,055
whether it is in other countries, the fact that the United States has the global reserve currency and can leverage it to export inflation abroad.

401
00:45:11,295 --> 00:45:21,315
All of these things were already the abstract power-based hierarchy of fiat currency with all of its oppressive aspects.

402
00:45:21,755 --> 00:45:26,855
The war then began with Bitcoin. It's already BitPower. It's already operating. The war is fighting.

403
00:45:26,855 --> 00:45:33,935
Again, it's just, will the United States realize that it is already the participant in a war that's being fought?

404
00:45:34,735 --> 00:45:41,375
And this is the cool part about it is, you know, you can go ahead and pick up arms in this war.

405
00:45:41,555 --> 00:45:54,075
And this war can be about not just the nation state versus other nation states, but the individual against, again, the god king of software, against other nation states.

406
00:45:54,075 --> 00:46:17,315
This is a neutral, permissionless protocol. We can all begin to build up the army, so to speak, and represent, at the end of the day, the ideology we hope to be the dominant one that emerges from once Bitcoin has like acid eaten through the abstract power-based hierarchy that it is operating against.

407
00:46:17,315 --> 00:46:26,375
whatever reemerges from that, again, strangler pattern. Hopefully, if the good and the righteous

408
00:46:26,375 --> 00:46:32,655
have got Bitcoin, then I mean, maybe there's never good and righteous. We're all apex predators. But

409
00:46:32,655 --> 00:46:37,795
the thought is, you know, if we believe abstract power, it can also be a good thing, right? We all

410
00:46:37,795 --> 00:46:43,035
have beliefs and we want our beliefs at the end of the day to win. And that's why Lowry is,

411
00:46:43,035 --> 00:47:02,995
I mean, he's theorizing this because he's a military officer. I mean, he wants the United States to win, I suppose. And he wants the ideology, the abstract power that it represents to emerge victorious at the end of the day, rather than a communist vision, an anarcho-tyrannical vision, whatever other vision.

412
00:47:02,995 --> 00:47:21,695
And so, again, I think that for me, like the last chapter really gelled that insight that, oh, my gosh, the war is already being fought. We're already participants. And so, like, if you understand that, then you are historically in quite the position as an individual.

413
00:47:21,695 --> 00:47:24,555
and we shouldn't take that lightly

414
00:47:24,555 --> 00:47:26,455
both, I mean, people like Lowry

415
00:47:26,455 --> 00:47:28,635
who want to sound the horn to the institutions

416
00:47:28,635 --> 00:47:30,735
that he respects, the military

417
00:47:30,735 --> 00:47:32,675
and ourselves to our family and friends

418
00:47:32,675 --> 00:47:34,555
right? Friends, I have more than one friend

419
00:47:34,555 --> 00:47:35,975
so, yeah

420
00:47:35,975 --> 00:47:38,395
I at least got you and I know some other people

421
00:47:38,395 --> 00:47:39,675
so family and friends

422
00:47:39,675 --> 00:47:42,915
Is it Trinity by the way?

423
00:47:43,035 --> 00:47:43,855
I think that was the test

424
00:47:43,855 --> 00:47:45,215
Did you Google it?

425
00:47:45,515 --> 00:47:47,135
No, it just popped into my head

426
00:47:47,135 --> 00:47:48,275
I got lucky

427
00:47:48,275 --> 00:47:49,575
I got lucky.

428
00:47:50,655 --> 00:48:14,935
I really like the metaphor of the Manhattan Project and being like the time between Trinity and the bomb is used is kind of like the time between the invention of proof of work and whatever it is we're waiting for, I guess, which is basically the first nation to declare a speculative attack on Bitcoin using their own currency.

429
00:48:15,055 --> 00:48:15,215
Right.

430
00:48:15,335 --> 00:48:15,935
That could be it.

431
00:48:16,675 --> 00:48:16,775
Yeah.

432
00:48:16,775 --> 00:48:24,495
So I think, and I do, so as a Bitcoiner, I don't like that term.

433
00:48:25,335 --> 00:48:27,035
I don't know what I would call it otherwise.

434
00:48:27,035 --> 00:48:39,975
But as a guy who looks at this technology, has more trust and belief in it being what it looks like than anything that I've ever seen.

435
00:48:39,975 --> 00:48:48,535
and walking around in a world where 90 some percent of people are completely oblivious.

436
00:48:48,775 --> 00:48:58,995
I do think that there may be some really strong correlations there to what the people who worked on the Manhattan Project must have felt in those months.

437
00:48:58,995 --> 00:49:00,635
I think it was like two months or something.

438
00:49:00,635 --> 00:49:05,635
Yeah, you saw a changed world. You saw that the world was changed immediately.

439
00:49:05,635 --> 00:49:20,395
And you can't go back. And as a Bitcoiner, that's what it means, I think, to be orange-pilled, which is to pull back this veil and go, oh, the world that I thought I knew, there is no going back.

440
00:49:20,395 --> 00:49:37,375
The strangler pattern is the strangler vine is already too extensively wrapped around our legacy institutions. It's just a matter of how quickly or how disruptive the migration of first financial than other sorts of digital resources is going to be.

441
00:49:37,375 --> 00:49:53,835
Yeah. One thing I wanted to comment, you talked about the financial sector as having, you know, kind of arisen as the power structure within the hierarchy that we have now, basically, is where a lot of the actual power is held.

442
00:49:53,835 --> 00:50:03,995
And I just, I think about how the comment that I made earlier about how companies became focused on growth and not innovation.

443
00:50:04,555 --> 00:50:12,935
So if your company focused on growth, then it's just grow, grow, grow, get bigger, get bigger, get bigger, get bigger, get more leveraged.

444
00:50:13,495 --> 00:50:18,655
It's basically a competition of who can have the most leverage and then apply that leverage.

445
00:50:18,655 --> 00:50:41,235
And I just think about how much good to humanity was lost because due to the money that was being paid in that sector, which was due to misallocated capital from poorer signals given to the market,

446
00:50:41,235 --> 00:50:57,675
But due to that effect, all of these brilliant minds of physics and mathematicians and statisticians, quantitative analysts, all of these people who could have otherwise been working on innovation, things that are beneficial to humanity.

447
00:50:57,995 --> 00:51:06,975
Instead, they went to Wall Street and they developed ways to extract more and more and more and more.

448
00:51:06,975 --> 00:51:09,815
They became priests in an abstract power-based hierarchy.

449
00:51:10,295 --> 00:51:10,475
Yeah.

450
00:51:11,235 --> 00:51:13,375
Yeah, and it's just, it's such a waste.

451
00:51:14,715 --> 00:51:28,715
It's such a waste to think about, because one of the things I think about Elon Musk is that for all of this thoughts that we have about him being, you know, this sort of Tesla-like figure, I think he's far more of a Rockefeller.

452
00:51:29,255 --> 00:51:30,955
You know, he's an industrialist.

453
00:51:31,175 --> 00:51:38,275
And for everything incredible that they're doing, like with Tesla, they're still iterating on a car.

454
00:51:38,575 --> 00:51:40,975
They're still making a faster car.

455
00:51:41,235 --> 00:51:44,035
just like the people before wanted a faster horse.

456
00:51:44,775 --> 00:51:48,815
And I think a lot of those minds that went to Wall Street,

457
00:51:49,415 --> 00:51:53,755
not only did they go to waste really for the loss that we had,

458
00:51:53,755 --> 00:51:59,955
but due to the inherent evil nature of the abstract power-based hierarchy

459
00:51:59,955 --> 00:52:01,395
at which they sit atop,

460
00:52:01,955 --> 00:52:10,615
they themselves became, in effect, evil for the things that they were able to do,

461
00:52:10,615 --> 00:52:16,315
the Cantillon effect and extracting so much value for themselves

462
00:52:16,315 --> 00:52:22,095
while leaving effectively scraps for the rest of the world.

463
00:52:22,715 --> 00:52:23,675
I don't know.

464
00:52:23,855 --> 00:52:28,455
I think Elon is a high priest in the abstract power-based hierarchy

465
00:52:28,455 --> 00:52:32,575
that is Diablo 4, and the rest of his enterprises are downstream of that.

466
00:52:32,975 --> 00:52:33,975
It's all capital to it.

467
00:52:34,375 --> 00:52:35,215
You've got to prioritize.

468
00:52:35,815 --> 00:52:36,395
You do.

469
00:52:36,815 --> 00:52:39,695
Some god king has made quite the system for you to be a part of.

470
00:52:39,695 --> 00:52:45,335
so yeah i want to i want to draw uh another quick thing that that came into mind um when i was

471
00:52:45,335 --> 00:52:50,875
thinking of this was that this like lines up the so the hierarchy thing is that's jordan peterson's

472
00:52:50,875 --> 00:52:57,155
like uh bread and butter like that's what his books are about the acknowledgement of hierarchy

473
00:52:57,155 --> 00:53:01,755
is always a revolutionary thing because people want to they want it to be invisible power always

474
00:53:01,755 --> 00:53:05,975
wants hierarchy to be invisible so you accept your place within the thing that you don't

475
00:53:05,975 --> 00:53:09,075
acknowledges there, but there's always a dominance hierarchy there for sure is.

476
00:53:09,075 --> 00:53:15,975
Yeah. And so it's just, you know, I find it fascinating that these common themes pop up across

477
00:53:16,975 --> 00:53:18,975
many different domains of interest.

478
00:53:18,975 --> 00:53:42,250
Yeah And I think that for me like you know getting into software I didn realize that it was going to go so deep And I think when any work starts with and takes seriously evolutionary theory and works from that first principle you going to arrive at something that is closer to truth than most people are comfortable with

479
00:53:42,250 --> 00:53:56,170
Because most of, I think, civilization is about denying that we are animals and denying that we are going to die, denying that if you want anything, you really need to go out and get it.

480
00:53:56,450 --> 00:54:06,390
Denying all sorts of essential truths that go right down to project power if you want to secure for yourself what we saw we needed to secure back when we were single-celled organisms.

481
00:54:06,390 --> 00:54:24,450
So just like beginning first principles again from such a deep perspective and then putting it all together and legitimately through solid argumentation arriving at Bitcoin as a continuation of that very evolutionary war that got us out of the primordial pit, man.

482
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:25,830
The soup, I guess.

483
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:27,730
Yeah, it's really cool.

484
00:54:27,890 --> 00:54:28,290
Really cool.

485
00:54:28,290 --> 00:54:28,990
Yeah.

486
00:54:28,990 --> 00:54:47,050
Yeah. So the thing, one of the things, again, this Bitcoin, the idea that really got me on the road to Bitcoin, that was like my biggest revelation was the idea of aligned incentives.

487
00:54:47,050 --> 00:54:58,450
and that's I just as I go through this it becomes more and more clear that the selfish act is the

488
00:54:58,450 --> 00:55:04,930
selfless act when it comes to Bitcoin subscribing to the system subscribing to the network it gives

489
00:55:04,930 --> 00:55:09,490
you power within that network and it gives the other people power within that network proportionate

490
00:55:09,490 --> 00:55:18,550
And you all are protected from and attack with the same, you're all part of the same army, basically.

491
00:55:18,550 --> 00:55:31,670
So everybody who subscribes to that, they benefit from it, which is not something that you've ever seen because what that looks like in the fiat world is a Ponzi scheme.

492
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:35,950
is that that's how it's sold,

493
00:55:36,170 --> 00:55:39,790
is that everybody that subscribes to this, you benefit from it.

494
00:55:40,490 --> 00:55:43,550
But the truth is that eventually you run out.

495
00:55:43,810 --> 00:55:47,730
So the planet, yeah, oh, sorry.

496
00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:52,170
I'll kick it back to you because I want to see where you're taking us now.

497
00:55:52,170 --> 00:55:54,090
So let's get through the recommendations,

498
00:55:54,510 --> 00:55:56,870
and then after that we'll move on to general,

499
00:55:57,050 --> 00:55:59,870
our own observations and insights about the book

500
00:55:59,870 --> 00:56:01,670
to the extent that they weren't already swept up

501
00:56:01,670 --> 00:56:02,430
in what we've already said.

502
00:56:02,610 --> 00:56:05,570
So again, the recommendations broken up

503
00:56:05,570 --> 00:56:07,810
into two rough categories, containers.

504
00:56:08,310 --> 00:56:10,790
The first one is recommendations for future research.

505
00:56:11,150 --> 00:56:12,870
The second one is recommendations

506
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:14,950
for future policymaking efforts.

507
00:56:15,250 --> 00:56:17,910
So, and there's five, five or seven,

508
00:56:18,350 --> 00:56:19,590
discrete recommendations.

509
00:56:19,590 --> 00:56:21,030
We'll go through them each one by one.

510
00:56:21,030 --> 00:56:24,130
So the first recommendation for future research,

511
00:56:25,010 --> 00:56:27,610
develop more theories about Bitcoin,

512
00:56:27,610 --> 00:56:31,990
not based on financial, monetary, or economic theory.

513
00:56:32,350 --> 00:56:37,410
And specifically, Lowry recommends other grounded theory approaches to create.

514
00:56:37,530 --> 00:56:43,770
Again, what grounded theory does is it isn't the testing of a hypothesis.

515
00:56:43,770 --> 00:56:47,610
It's the generation of a theoretical framework from which you're going to

516
00:56:48,250 --> 00:56:51,250
derive hypothesis and then test those.

517
00:56:51,390 --> 00:56:55,490
So he wants people to, recommendation one, develop more theories about Bitcoin

518
00:56:55,490 --> 00:57:00,370
not based in financial, monetary, or economic theory to create alternative frameworks.

519
00:57:00,670 --> 00:57:02,090
So, Lucas, what do you think about that, Rick?

520
00:57:04,350 --> 00:57:10,890
I think if nothing else comes out of this other than an increase in the amount of research

521
00:57:10,890 --> 00:57:14,950
that's done with a grounded theory methodology, it is a huge win.

522
00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:24,370
Because just the idea of having a previously developed hypothesis that you test,

523
00:57:24,370 --> 00:57:27,870
because you think that you're asking the right question,

524
00:57:28,370 --> 00:57:31,770
turns out to be very dangerous, very inefficient,

525
00:57:32,030 --> 00:57:35,050
very useless in terms of actually getting a good answer.

526
00:57:35,050 --> 00:57:42,770
So, yeah, I think that's a beautiful recommendation.

527
00:57:43,850 --> 00:57:49,210
I don't really know what other angles you come at it from.

528
00:57:49,330 --> 00:57:52,030
You've got financial, I guess, so you've got the financial,

529
00:57:52,030 --> 00:57:56,650
You've got the human kind of humanity side of it, the Alex Gladstein.

530
00:57:56,770 --> 00:57:58,530
I don't know how that's quantified.

531
00:57:59,390 --> 00:57:59,510
Yeah.

532
00:57:59,830 --> 00:58:00,730
I'm sure it can be.

533
00:58:01,470 --> 00:58:07,870
I mean, I just think you just go – you just look at – open the university calendar for your nearest university.

534
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:10,850
Look at all the disciplines there and say Bitcoin and.

535
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:15,370
Bitcoin and anthropology, biology, chemistry, all these things.

536
00:58:15,370 --> 00:58:21,370
What insights – I mean, if Bitcoin seriously is going – a strangler pattern vine that is enveloping.

537
00:58:22,030 --> 00:58:28,490
being the architecture of the internet and going to slowly migrate all functionality away from us

538
00:58:28,490 --> 00:58:33,210
what is the cyberspace but in some sense the flowering of all human culture in the digital

539
00:58:33,210 --> 00:58:41,390
realm and so like we need to orient to that fact and i think um yeah there's the possibility maybe

540
00:58:41,390 --> 00:58:45,650
even if the theoretic you know the grounded theory maybe at the end of the day it's it's of

541
00:58:45,650 --> 00:58:51,730
not everything is going to be of the same level of impact or insight as coming at it from a

542
00:58:51,730 --> 00:58:56,830
financial or military strategical angle. But I think that each of them would have something to

543
00:58:56,830 --> 00:59:03,150
add and something to say, even if to say, you know, that how Bitcoin impacts chemistry is,

544
00:59:03,150 --> 00:59:08,470
you know, attenuated in whatever way. But no, I think that all of these disciplines can look at it

545
00:59:08,470 --> 00:59:13,370
and all of them can maybe apportion some insight to the whole endeavor, some new theoretical

546
00:59:13,370 --> 00:59:19,250
framework. Well, it's certainly, it's certainly destroying finance and economics right now.

547
00:59:19,250 --> 00:59:27,270
You know, like it is certainly proving to be something that needs to be examined very deeply.

548
00:59:28,050 --> 00:59:28,850
Yeah, yeah.

549
00:59:29,150 --> 00:59:30,230
And not just what Saylor's doing.

550
00:59:30,770 --> 00:59:31,330
Right, right.

551
00:59:31,470 --> 00:59:37,310
No, I mean, so those two, the financial and monetary and economic angles are,

552
00:59:37,770 --> 00:59:43,570
there's a lot of awesome people doing really good analysis and things with those orientations.

553
00:59:43,570 --> 00:59:53,330
So it's just going to be interesting when we begin to see people doing things with Bitcoin from other academic or theoretical angles.

554
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:53,990
Yeah.

555
00:59:54,430 --> 01:00:00,750
Saylor is rapidly proving that economics doesn't exist and that physics applies everywhere.

556
01:00:02,410 --> 01:00:11,270
He's like, oh, we're just going to take a lever and we're going to spin this thing really fast and then we're going to smash more Bitcoin into a share.

557
01:00:11,830 --> 01:00:12,090
Yeah.

558
01:00:12,090 --> 01:00:12,990
It's interesting.

559
01:00:12,990 --> 01:00:21,570
Because the Bitcoin and could just become Bitcoin obliterates this field, like completely takes it out.

560
01:00:21,570 --> 01:00:24,290
This was just an artifact of the fiat system.

561
01:00:24,590 --> 01:00:25,850
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

562
01:00:26,130 --> 01:00:39,230
Yeah, maybe we'll end up finding out that there's some fields of study that naturally die or are just absorbed by the approach and the tools of another field.

563
01:00:39,790 --> 01:00:40,530
Yeah, yeah.

564
01:00:40,530 --> 01:01:00,450
Yeah. No, and Sailor, the interesting thing about him, I have not listened to his, some of his, you know, we all kind of touch on some of his longer lectures, I think, and hear him go really deep into the nature of power. And Lowry also cites him a few times with the cyber hornets protecting yada yada and all these things.

565
01:01:00,450 --> 01:01:14,350
And so Saylor has a really, of course, deep philosophical understanding that goes far beyond finance, monetary and economic theory. And I think that it would be interesting if he did some general Saylorian theory of reality.

566
01:01:14,350 --> 01:01:21,650
recommendation to deductively analyze Bitcoin from the perspective of power projection theory.

567
01:01:22,350 --> 01:01:29,690
So again, Lowry did a grounded theory analysis. He did come up with a theoretical framework. That

568
01:01:29,690 --> 01:01:36,630
theoretical framework is power projection theory. So we can also begin to analyze Bitcoin from the

569
01:01:36,630 --> 01:01:42,430
theory that he has generated. And so we can derive some new hypotheses from the theoretical framework

570
01:01:42,430 --> 01:01:44,670
that he has generated and test those.

571
01:01:45,050 --> 01:01:47,750
Some that he says have some hypothesis

572
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:50,470
that could be tested based on his power projection theory

573
01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:54,570
that have been generated in the context of this thesis.

574
01:01:55,390 --> 01:01:58,710
Can physical cost function protocols, proof of work,

575
01:01:59,310 --> 01:02:02,530
such as in Bitcoin, represent the operating system

576
01:02:02,530 --> 01:02:05,570
of a completely new type of planetary scale computer?

577
01:02:05,970 --> 01:02:07,490
That's a hypothesis we could test.

578
01:02:07,850 --> 01:02:12,410
If so, would it have completely new emergent properties

579
01:02:12,410 --> 01:02:19,870
If so, what are the benefits of reverse-optimized planetary-scale computer that makes bits expensive?

580
01:02:20,110 --> 01:02:34,570
So these are hypotheses that kind of Lowry, as he's developed his power projection theory, has deduced the REC2 then is deductively analyze Bitcoin from the perspective of power projection theory, including possibly these hypotheses.

581
01:02:35,130 --> 01:02:35,590
What do you think?

582
01:02:35,590 --> 01:02:41,930
I think we've got a guy who is saying, here's my research.

583
01:02:42,250 --> 01:02:43,490
Go ahead and try to break it.

584
01:02:43,790 --> 01:02:44,830
Do whatever you can.

585
01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:47,230
Test it in every which way.

586
01:02:47,830 --> 01:02:58,070
I think that's a sign of a good researcher, which is somebody that is open to being challenged on their conclusions.

587
01:02:58,730 --> 01:02:59,450
So, yeah.

588
01:02:59,450 --> 01:03:12,810
Yeah. I mean, you said I was open last time that the idea of a planetary scale computer, a state mechanism that is the world, was eluding my comprehension in some fundamental way.

589
01:03:12,810 --> 01:03:18,110
For me, a computer is a magic box that kind of shows you things when you type words into it.

590
01:03:18,630 --> 01:03:21,850
I lack the computer science theoretical framework.

591
01:03:21,850 --> 01:03:34,450
It's been very illuminating, and I encourage anybody else who wants to understand more about object-oriented programming, what programming even is, I think this thesis is a great place to start.

592
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:38,630
But it does arrive at this very high-level concept of a planetary-scale computer.

593
01:03:39,150 --> 01:03:46,330
Did you want to make a run at the impenetrable wall that is my ignorance on this, or do you think that we leave that be and try to scoop it up later?

594
01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:50,110
Because if you have thoughts on it, if you want to cure my ignorance.

595
01:03:50,110 --> 01:03:54,030
Well, I don't think I have the best grip on it yet either.

596
01:03:54,210 --> 01:04:01,230
But the way that I'm trying to think of it would be that the abstract power-based hierarchy is sitting at the top.

597
01:04:01,390 --> 01:04:02,730
That's like the layer four.

598
01:04:03,110 --> 01:04:07,230
So like when you think of Bitcoin, they talk L1, L2, L3, L4.

599
01:04:07,890 --> 01:04:16,630
So it's top-down design where you basically say, we want to tell this story so that we're in charge.

600
01:04:16,630 --> 01:04:21,950
And so what's the type of power that we need in order to enforce that?

601
01:04:22,350 --> 01:04:41,650
And it turns out the best form of power to enforce that is a fiat monetary system, because that allows you to create unlimited power, which is merely stealing the energy and life force of your citizens from the future and bringing it into the present.

602
01:04:41,650 --> 01:04:48,550
so I think it's interesting because you've got this so it's a top-down approach we're coming at

603
01:04:48,550 --> 01:04:54,970
it from the perspective of we're a power-based hierarchy we want to stay in power what is the

604
01:04:54,970 --> 01:05:02,230
l1 that best supports that and so you reverse engineer this thing for speed as opposed to

605
01:05:02,230 --> 01:05:10,430
bottom engineer it up for security which is what bitcoin so bitcoin then you're it's your l1

606
01:05:10,430 --> 01:05:16,970
and you build upon that so that as you go up the layer,

607
01:05:17,310 --> 01:05:22,550
you maintain the security and you add speed and you add functionality,

608
01:05:22,550 --> 01:05:25,490
but you don't start with the functionality and say,

609
01:05:25,850 --> 01:05:29,690
this is how we're going to design the feeding mechanism

610
01:05:29,690 --> 01:05:32,430
in order to steal resources in order to make it run.

611
01:05:32,550 --> 01:05:38,870
Because it's like the comparison to airplane design,

612
01:05:38,870 --> 01:05:43,130
which is that like any failure is a catastrophic failure.

613
01:05:43,130 --> 01:05:49,950
Like it has to be designed to be perfect first, perfectly safe, and then we'll make it go fast.

614
01:05:51,310 --> 01:05:59,270
So anyways, just the idea of Bitcoin as a planetary computer, I guess really what I was thinking was,

615
01:05:59,470 --> 01:06:07,470
okay, so what does it look like if you have a perfectly secure L1?

616
01:06:07,470 --> 01:06:11,290
what does the power-based hierarchy look like on top of that.

617
01:06:11,290 --> 01:06:16,510
And I think that that power-based hierarchy is a dictator,

618
01:06:17,050 --> 01:06:19,970
but it's a decentralized AI dictator.

619
01:06:21,430 --> 01:06:24,250
And that decentralized AI dictator,

620
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:28,750
so the problem with the abstract power-based hierarchies

621
01:06:28,750 --> 01:06:31,030
is that they're not immutable,

622
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:34,150
is that they change the laws, the rules,

623
01:06:34,250 --> 01:06:35,410
in order to benefit them.

624
01:06:35,410 --> 01:06:46,370
So that would be a way to use the immutability of Bitcoin to tie it to an AI so that it applies the beautiful L1 that we have.

625
01:06:46,370 --> 01:06:48,690
What is the planet a planet?

626
01:06:48,890 --> 01:06:49,930
Is the computer a planet?

627
01:06:50,170 --> 01:06:58,830
Is the planet a computer if Bitcoin uses the world's infrastructure to derive power to compute hash functions,

628
01:06:58,830 --> 01:07:06,250
which then solve, you know, add a block and maintain a ledger?

629
01:07:06,450 --> 01:07:12,830
It seems like the actual computing is done by computers and they're merely being like fed energy.

630
01:07:12,830 --> 01:07:14,390
in the same way you plug a computer in,

631
01:07:14,850 --> 01:07:16,510
they, of course, take energy,

632
01:07:16,670 --> 01:07:20,090
and they use that to complete the hashing functions.

633
01:07:20,610 --> 01:07:23,110
But the actual, a computer is a thing that computes.

634
01:07:23,230 --> 01:07:27,170
What is being computed is, I mean, what is, I guess,

635
01:07:27,330 --> 01:07:29,050
there's different distinct computing functions

636
01:07:29,050 --> 01:07:29,910
that are going on maybe,

637
01:07:30,070 --> 01:07:33,410
but it seems like I don't understand

638
01:07:33,410 --> 01:07:36,710
how the infrastructure can be a motherboard

639
01:07:36,710 --> 01:07:39,030
or we can say that the world is a computer,

640
01:07:39,190 --> 01:07:41,530
except for in a very metaphorical sense

641
01:07:41,530 --> 01:07:46,350
where computer is beginning to take on a distinct meaning

642
01:07:46,350 --> 01:07:49,690
from my understanding of the computer.

643
01:07:49,930 --> 01:07:50,650
I don't know.

644
01:07:50,830 --> 01:07:52,850
I don't know they're going to solve that.

645
01:07:53,290 --> 01:07:57,370
Maybe the world's energy system is the power supply of the computer

646
01:07:57,370 --> 01:08:00,250
and the ASICs are the processor

647
01:08:00,250 --> 01:08:04,310
and the blockchain is the memory card.

648
01:08:06,970 --> 01:08:07,930
I think, yeah.

649
01:08:08,070 --> 01:08:10,570
And so in that sense, you can say it's a planetary computer.

650
01:08:10,570 --> 01:08:17,450
it's i i yeah maybe that's if it's that sense okay that makes sense but it sounded to me like

651
01:08:17,450 --> 01:08:24,330
the planet was a computer in some sense in the infrastructure is like the circuit um like the

652
01:08:24,330 --> 01:08:29,390
circuit of course runs across the face of the chip and like the world is a chip a macro chip and

653
01:08:29,390 --> 01:08:34,030
i just i don't fully understand that i'm not again we have a hypothesis here i want somebody

654
01:08:34,030 --> 01:08:39,190
to flesh out the terms and then try to find a way to test it even if in theoretical space or

655
01:08:39,190 --> 01:08:44,790
whatever so i think it's yeah i think it's because i think it's because the higher layers haven't

656
01:08:44,790 --> 01:08:49,350
been developed yet so i think that when you see those higher layers get developed like smart

657
01:08:49,350 --> 01:08:56,310
contracts and um ai ai dictators on there then i think it might be easier to see but who knows

658
01:08:56,310 --> 01:09:02,290
i think that computer science itself is a computer science itself is a series of metaphors about what

659
01:09:02,290 --> 01:09:06,530
is happening to changes of state of a mechanism.

660
01:09:07,270 --> 01:09:12,230
And that Lowry's theory, of course, uses computer science as foundational, so draws from that

661
01:09:12,230 --> 01:09:13,170
school of metaphors.

662
01:09:13,810 --> 01:09:18,850
I just want a Bitcoin and that removes computers from the equations and describes it to me

663
01:09:18,850 --> 01:09:22,610
with crowns on an Indian big red pad so that I can understand it.

664
01:09:23,430 --> 01:09:23,590
Yeah.

665
01:09:24,210 --> 01:09:24,350
Yeah.

666
01:09:24,510 --> 01:09:29,050
And I want to hear a good answer on the quantum computer question.

667
01:09:29,050 --> 01:09:39,570
Because if Bitcoin is a state-changing machine and then you have a computer that can exist in both states at once, how does that change the game?

668
01:09:39,650 --> 01:09:46,930
I heard Michael Saylor try to answer the question one time, and I wasn't fully – I didn't understand what he said.

669
01:09:47,250 --> 01:09:47,690
So who knows?

670
01:09:47,730 --> 01:09:56,210
So that might actually – thoughts about quantum computing and similar might fall into the next – we've finished up recommendations for future research.

671
01:09:56,210 --> 01:09:59,210
Now we're on a recommendation for future policymaking efforts.

672
01:09:59,490 --> 01:10:03,150
Maybe quantum computing, considering the role that that might play, would be one of those.

673
01:10:03,310 --> 01:10:18,030
But in any case, recommendation three, a recommendation for a future policymaking effort, similar to recommendation one, don't rely on financial, monetary, and or economic theorists to influence Bitcoin policy.

674
01:10:18,230 --> 01:10:21,870
I think it's don't rely solely on maybe is the meaning of that.

675
01:10:21,930 --> 01:10:25,790
Don't rely on financial, monetary, economic theorists to influence Bitcoin policy.

676
01:10:25,790 --> 01:10:28,870
and he was really good don't listen to peter schiff is what it's

677
01:10:28,870 --> 01:10:37,070
well that's his own rule here's my policy recommendation yeah right jim gramer cannot

678
01:10:37,070 --> 01:10:43,050
yeah now we can just set him up and have him say the opposite of what we want like a reverse

679
01:10:43,050 --> 01:10:46,730
pythia that just like predicts the opposite future of what we want and then it becomes reality

680
01:10:46,730 --> 01:10:52,950
so i don't know what world that guy lives in an inverse oracle and we just have him say

681
01:10:52,950 --> 01:10:57,750
the things that we don't want to come about or whatever the opposite like a dead weatherman

682
01:10:57,750 --> 01:11:03,410
gets stuff right more often we can harness kramer's power if we know how to use it we have to it's

683
01:11:03,410 --> 01:11:08,910
like a very greek tragedy the way we have to ask these questions of him um okay go on but you said

684
01:11:08,910 --> 01:11:13,930
weatherman though this and it's yeah i said dead weatherman so let's talk about living weatherman

685
01:11:13,930 --> 01:11:21,030
so weatherman are not good and a good analogy or metaphor for why we shouldn't rely on financial

686
01:11:21,030 --> 01:11:25,710
good analogy for why we shouldn't rely on financial monetary economic theorists

687
01:11:25,710 --> 01:11:31,590
solely to influence Bitcoin policy. We don't call in weathermen to talk about what quote unquote

688
01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:37,690
cloud computing is, right? And so Lowry's thought is we're misunderstanding Bitcoin as money,

689
01:11:37,690 --> 01:11:42,650
and that's causing us to call in financial monetary economic theorists in the same way that

690
01:11:42,650 --> 01:11:47,790
Amazon Web Service call in like an etymologist to talk about spiders because they have a web.

691
01:11:47,790 --> 01:12:03,630
It's like, no, you don't do that. I could realize that these are metaphors we're using. Bitcoin is a metaphor. So don't rely solely on financial people. So I guess, what do you think about that? Don't rely on financial monetary economic theorists to influence Bitcoin policy.

692
01:12:04,890 --> 01:12:07,590
Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like a really solid recommendation.

693
01:12:08,470 --> 01:12:08,690
Yeah.

694
01:12:08,690 --> 01:12:10,370
Do you think that, or go ahead.

695
01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:21,670
I was just going to say the thing about not recognizing it as a weapon or as a power projection technology because it's purported as a money.

696
01:12:22,550 --> 01:12:27,550
I mean, the bonus is that if you buy the money story, then you're supporting the weapon story anyways.

697
01:12:27,790 --> 01:12:30,390
So you're already doing your role.

698
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:31,430
Yeah.

699
01:12:31,430 --> 01:12:36,830
But he does, and I don't know, I'm not following along exactly.

700
01:12:36,830 --> 01:12:42,490
so is that I don't know if it's this point or later on, but we're domesticated and we're

701
01:12:42,490 --> 01:12:44,150
not versed in computer science.

702
01:12:44,630 --> 01:12:51,370
And that means that we are doubly screwed at being able to recognize this for what it

703
01:12:51,370 --> 01:12:51,610
is.

704
01:12:51,710 --> 01:12:57,170
And not only that, so one of the things about being a Bitcoiner is that you become more

705
01:12:57,170 --> 01:12:58,610
in tune to the world around you.

706
01:12:58,730 --> 01:13:01,630
You become more in tune with, you know, theories about nature.

707
01:13:01,730 --> 01:13:03,590
You become more in tune with nature.

708
01:13:04,070 --> 01:13:07,270
Everybody's outside getting their grunt on.

709
01:13:08,790 --> 01:13:11,790
On the flip side is the abstract power-based hierarchies.

710
01:13:11,930 --> 01:13:15,050
They seem to encourage, instead of being present, distracted.

711
01:13:15,050 --> 01:13:20,490
And so not only are we domesticated, not only are we not versed in computer science,

712
01:13:21,110 --> 01:13:32,330
it is of the power-based hierarchy's benefit to constantly distract us from being in a position where we could recognize that

713
01:13:32,330 --> 01:13:37,690
because there are so many weathermen reporting on cloud servers type of thing.

714
01:13:37,770 --> 01:13:40,950
Like that's what your financial services television is basically.

715
01:13:41,350 --> 01:13:44,010
So yeah, I'm along with that.

716
01:13:44,450 --> 01:13:46,170
I think, yeah, that's a good one.

717
01:13:46,730 --> 01:13:49,170
Recommendation four, think of Bitcoin as,

718
01:13:49,590 --> 01:13:51,490
this is a recommendation for a future policymaker.

719
01:13:51,630 --> 01:13:55,470
Policymaker, think of Bitcoin as electro cyber security system

720
01:13:55,470 --> 01:13:57,670
rather than a monetary system.

721
01:13:57,670 --> 01:14:02,650
So similar to the last one, but an affirmation, a positive statement.

722
01:14:02,930 --> 01:14:06,370
Think of Bitcoin as an electrocyber security system.

723
01:14:06,850 --> 01:14:08,990
So basically cyberspace is the new realm of warfare.

724
01:14:09,230 --> 01:14:14,890
Bitcoin is the security force of that system, of cyberspace, of that realm.

725
01:14:16,470 --> 01:14:23,550
And within this recommendation to think of Bitcoin as an electrocyber security system, he mentions two, maybe three things we might want to do.

726
01:14:23,550 --> 01:14:29,210
consider stockpiling Bitcoin, consider supporting a robust domestic hashing industry,

727
01:14:29,710 --> 01:14:36,330
and perhaps, he says, even dedicate military resources to defending mass-based infrastructure,

728
01:14:36,830 --> 01:14:42,490
the physical aspect of the Bitcoin network, internet, the physical correlate to the internet,

729
01:14:42,630 --> 01:14:48,450
the power grid, computational facilities, the chip fab aspect of that. So what do you think

730
01:14:48,450 --> 01:14:52,550
about that, thinking of Bitcoin as an electrocyber security system and potentially doing those things?

731
01:14:52,550 --> 01:15:00,890
I think the name is so cool that nobody will ever get it. I think they want it to be really boring. Like if you're trying to sell a senator on something.

732
01:15:01,630 --> 01:15:02,250
What name?

733
01:15:02,810 --> 01:15:15,290
The electrocyber security system. It just sounds too cool where I don't know if it can get traction with Congress. It needs its own MAGA.

734
01:15:15,290 --> 01:15:16,630
I was thinking about this.

735
01:15:17,810 --> 01:15:21,910
You know, like Donald Trump doesn't win the presidency without that ugly red hat.

736
01:15:22,190 --> 01:15:24,650
Like that thing became ubiquitous.

737
01:15:25,270 --> 01:15:28,610
And it spread the ideology.

738
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:30,610
It spread the belief or whatever.

739
01:15:32,050 --> 01:15:36,250
Soft war needs a ugly ass red MAGA hat.

740
01:15:37,710 --> 01:15:39,170
It's not that ugly.

741
01:15:39,170 --> 01:15:40,270
It's just like bold.

742
01:15:40,270 --> 01:15:56,030
But it needs that memification in order to be grasped by someone who hears electrocyber security, whatever, and they go, you know, like that.

743
01:15:56,030 --> 01:16:12,270
And again, as a result of the inherent nature of an abstract power-based hierarchy to use its power to distract its citizens, that's where we've gone as a culture is that we are not deeply thinking about things.

744
01:16:12,410 --> 01:16:16,570
We are looking for the meme, which is okay if you can develop the meme.

745
01:16:17,390 --> 01:16:17,550
Yeah.

746
01:16:17,770 --> 01:16:17,930
Yeah.

747
01:16:17,930 --> 01:16:33,850
No, that's – I mean that's a good recommendation. He actually – in the seven recommendations he has doesn't have consider how best to memetically infuse Bitcoin as bit power into a thing that's going to educate the public about this.

748
01:16:33,850 --> 01:16:38,650
I mean, this is a recommendation for a policymaker could be consider the rhetorical angle.

749
01:16:38,770 --> 01:16:48,590
How rhetorically should Bitcoin be framed and sold to the democratic populace for whom from whom support whose support you want to further these other policies?

750
01:16:49,250 --> 01:16:50,810
Yeah, needs to have a meme.

751
01:16:50,890 --> 01:16:52,430
He needs to have a meme competition.

752
01:16:52,810 --> 01:16:56,850
I mean, there's so many good ones like software, of course, is itself software.

753
01:16:57,850 --> 01:16:58,850
That's an excellent phrase.

754
01:17:00,350 --> 01:17:00,530
Yeah.

755
01:17:00,530 --> 01:17:03,930
The electrocyber security dome, and there's all things in here.

756
01:17:04,110 --> 01:17:09,350
The antlers thing, these are all really good educational tools that Lowry has.

757
01:17:09,450 --> 01:17:13,450
The problem is that the thesis itself is so, there's so many interlocking parts.

758
01:17:13,730 --> 01:17:18,990
It's like how rhetorically, you say Bitcoin is warfare, and people recoil from that.

759
01:17:19,090 --> 01:17:23,650
And you're like, no, no, no, Bitcoin is the software protocol, soft war protocol that makes

760
01:17:23,650 --> 01:17:27,090
warfare as you know it obsolete in a certain sense.

761
01:17:27,090 --> 01:17:31,370
that like antlers helping deer resolve their dominance disputes.

762
01:17:31,630 --> 01:17:34,370
And then you're already the person's eyes have glazed.

763
01:17:34,630 --> 01:17:36,750
So like, how do you educate the populace?

764
01:17:37,890 --> 01:17:41,610
Do you just say Bitcoin is money and then just go on with your policies regardless?

765
01:17:41,830 --> 01:17:45,590
Maybe that's the best way because recommendation five,

766
01:17:45,590 --> 01:17:48,910
consider supporting Bitcoin under the second amendment.

767
01:17:49,670 --> 01:17:51,930
Proof of work protected under the second amendment.

768
01:17:52,070 --> 01:17:52,770
What do you think about that?

769
01:17:53,270 --> 01:17:55,130
One thousand percent.

770
01:17:55,130 --> 01:18:11,710
I absolutely see how Bitcoin as a monetary instrument, it kills fiat, which is what allows for wars to occur, or at least at the scale that we see them.

771
01:18:11,710 --> 01:18:27,970
But not only does it do that, Bitcoin itself is both the battlefield and it's the weapon and it's the defense against the weapon and it's the resource over which you're competing.

772
01:18:27,970 --> 01:18:39,570
So it's everything. It takes all of that stuff and it packs it into one nice little container where it's not everything is so disjointed.

773
01:18:39,570 --> 01:18:47,610
like apparently I heard that Trump is selling Bitcoin to people by saying it's digital gold

774
01:18:47,610 --> 01:18:53,950
and gold is energy extracted from the ground but it's not useful typically where it's extracted you

775
01:18:53,950 --> 01:18:58,270
have to take it somewhere if you have to take it somewhere you have to protect the trade routes

776
01:18:58,270 --> 01:19:01,930
if you have to protect the trade routes you're going to get into skirmishes

777
01:19:01,930 --> 01:19:12,690
Bitcoin, you're drawing energy out of the ground and you can use it right there or you can use it wherever you are in the entire world.

778
01:19:12,690 --> 01:19:38,990
So you can take energy out of the ground in Antarctica and it can be used in Buenos Aires immediately with no transportation cost, without having to inflict kinetic energy upon someone in order to protect that route, without loss of expended energy in order to just physically get it there.

779
01:19:38,990 --> 01:19:40,430
How does that get us to the Second Amendment, though?

780
01:19:40,430 --> 01:19:54,230
So it's the battle. It's like I said, it is everything. It's the cannon. It's the cannonball. It's the black powder. And cyberspace is the battlefield. So it is all those things.

781
01:19:54,230 --> 01:20:00,530
I mean, it's all these things as a very poetic description, but of course, the Second Amendment, there's a jurisprudence associated.

782
01:20:00,910 --> 01:20:04,670
There's the way that the Supreme Court has interpreted the right to bear arms.

783
01:20:04,890 --> 01:20:07,430
And so, you know, it's not the right to bear a battlefield.

784
01:20:07,970 --> 01:20:22,746
And so like you know as a proposal consider supporting Bitcoin under the Second Amendment I guess that has to be a proposal that we rhetorically begin to kind of we seed the thought into the consciousness that hopefully is going to arrive at judges

785
01:20:22,746 --> 01:20:27,865
that Bitcoin is an arm that we have the right to bear.

786
01:20:28,726 --> 01:20:29,885
And so, yeah.

787
01:20:30,025 --> 01:20:32,585
So it means classifying it as a weapon.

788
01:20:33,405 --> 01:20:34,666
Right. Yeah, there we go.

789
01:20:34,965 --> 01:20:35,045
Yeah.

790
01:20:35,166 --> 01:20:36,085
The government could.

791
01:20:36,085 --> 01:20:45,085
Yeah, because you have the right to bear arms to protect your property, basically, to protect your freedom.

792
01:20:45,226 --> 01:20:45,746
Yeah, yeah.

793
01:20:46,485 --> 01:20:47,145
That's right.

794
01:20:47,226 --> 01:20:56,746
The government could do it regulatorily, classified as a weapon, which would do something for the Supreme Court or some circuit judge in interpreting it as something a person might have a right to.

795
01:20:56,746 --> 01:21:05,726
Well, so Bitcoin is already defined as property by the SEC, I believe, or maybe the IRS.

796
01:21:06,025 --> 01:21:06,306
I can't remember.

797
01:21:06,405 --> 01:21:08,825
But anyways, so it's already defined as property.

798
01:21:09,746 --> 01:21:09,786
Yeah.

799
01:21:10,126 --> 01:21:19,845
So now I think the only barrier that you have to hop is you're like, okay, the Second Amendment gives you the right to bear arms to protect your property.

800
01:21:20,825 --> 01:21:25,286
So it requires a grounded theory of methodology because you have to go backwards.

801
01:21:25,286 --> 01:21:27,085
You have to go, okay, here's the property.

802
01:21:27,266 --> 01:21:28,126
How do you defend it?

803
01:21:28,726 --> 01:21:31,185
Well, the property is how you defend it.

804
01:21:31,726 --> 01:21:33,525
The proof of work aspect of it, yeah.

805
01:21:33,525 --> 01:21:34,465
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

806
01:21:34,465 --> 01:21:35,626
Yeah, no, definitely, yeah.

807
01:21:35,685 --> 01:21:38,565
So that's slicing off the proof of work aspect.

808
01:21:38,985 --> 01:21:41,185
You don't protect Bitcoin under the Second Amendment.

809
01:21:41,365 --> 01:21:43,445
You protect the proof of work.

810
01:21:43,905 --> 01:21:44,766
Proof of work, right.

811
01:21:45,105 --> 01:21:45,585
Yeah, right on.

812
01:21:45,585 --> 01:21:47,246
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, yeah.

813
01:21:47,525 --> 01:21:49,645
So that's kind of more of a refined approach even.

814
01:21:50,246 --> 01:21:50,845
Yeah, cool.

815
01:21:50,845 --> 01:21:51,806
Proof of work, not even Bitcoin.

816
01:21:52,025 --> 01:21:52,185
Cool.

817
01:21:52,185 --> 01:21:58,065
there's a lot of there's a lot of there's a few podcasts where um lowry really gets into this with

818
01:21:58,065 --> 01:22:02,626
a couple podcasters about is it first amendment second amendment so there is an underlying issue

819
01:22:02,626 --> 01:22:08,626
i mean like there's there is like what is the best strategy to protect the common person's

820
01:22:08,626 --> 01:22:14,306
access to this thing that if you classify it as a weapon ammunition is this going to

821
01:22:14,306 --> 01:22:20,085
you know jeopardize the ability of the common person to self-custody or something like that

822
01:22:20,085 --> 01:22:21,825
But there's a whole debate there.

823
01:22:22,246 --> 01:22:27,505
I guess I'm kind of agnostic on it, but it makes sense that it would be under the Second Amendment.

824
01:22:27,885 --> 01:22:30,145
Well, Bitcoin is code.

825
01:22:30,145 --> 01:22:37,685
So there's case law supporting the code being protected under free speech.

826
01:22:37,925 --> 01:22:40,325
So the entire thing gets protected under free speech.

827
01:22:40,445 --> 01:22:47,206
But then, yeah, maybe proof of work itself is explicitly protected under the Second Amendment.

828
01:22:48,025 --> 01:22:48,246
Yeah.

829
01:22:48,726 --> 01:22:49,246
I like it.

830
01:22:49,365 --> 01:22:49,445
Cool.

831
01:22:49,445 --> 01:22:51,226
I think you should argue for it.

832
01:22:51,925 --> 01:22:53,246
There we go. I'll do it.

833
01:22:53,325 --> 01:22:54,105
Recommendation six.

834
01:22:54,465 --> 01:22:55,246
Go ahead.

835
01:22:55,945 --> 01:22:57,105
Recommendation six.

836
01:22:57,645 --> 01:23:02,345
Recognize that proof of stake is not a viable replacement for proof of work.

837
01:23:04,885 --> 01:23:10,985
Yeah, and he mentions, so when he does this, I mean, obviously Ethereum is kind of what's in the mind's eye here.

838
01:23:11,145 --> 01:23:15,806
Recognize proof of stake is not a viable replacement for proof of work.

839
01:23:15,806 --> 01:23:25,085
He says something interesting in talking about this, that he says that Ethereum is a Sybil attack in operation.

840
01:23:25,266 --> 01:23:31,405
A Sybil attack is when you use fake identities to gain a majority of a network to then exploit that network.

841
01:23:32,025 --> 01:23:38,206
And he just, my reading of it is that he's saying proof of stake just is already a Sybil attack,

842
01:23:38,206 --> 01:23:42,405
and that there's potentially fake identities, pseudonymous identities,

843
01:23:42,666 --> 01:23:45,786
or anonymous people who control these things.

844
01:23:45,786 --> 01:23:50,105
You have no way to verify who owns this stuff.

845
01:23:50,206 --> 01:23:53,845
A lot of it was granted by, as I understand it,

846
01:23:54,105 --> 01:23:59,145
the Ethereum Foundation granted a lot of people Ethereum when it was proof of work

847
01:23:59,145 --> 01:24:00,885
and then it converts over to proof of mistake.

848
01:24:01,065 --> 01:24:04,786
And we don't actually know who are the majority owners of all this.

849
01:24:05,405 --> 01:24:07,045
So that's one part of it.

850
01:24:07,045 --> 01:24:10,226
And he just casually mentions, too, that it's run by non-U.S. citizens.

851
01:24:10,485 --> 01:24:12,206
And so that might give one a buzz.

852
01:24:12,585 --> 01:24:16,025
So recognize proof of stake is not a viable replacement for proof of work.

853
01:24:16,145 --> 01:24:17,766
I assume you're on board with this, Lucas.

854
01:24:18,325 --> 01:24:19,865
Yeah, you know, I hate proof of work.

855
01:24:20,266 --> 01:24:21,185
I think it's like—

856
01:24:21,185 --> 01:24:21,405
Stake.

857
01:24:21,706 --> 01:24:22,405
You hate proof of stake, I suppose.

858
01:24:22,405 --> 01:24:23,345
Sorry, proof of stake.

859
01:24:23,445 --> 01:24:23,806
My bad.

860
01:24:23,845 --> 01:24:24,585
I love proof of work.

861
01:24:26,726 --> 01:24:28,246
The civil attack.

862
01:24:28,925 --> 01:24:33,905
So remember when we talked about, I was saying, like, your book is not something you own.

863
01:24:33,905 --> 01:24:40,885
It's something that you have until someone takes away from you and because somebody has more power than you.

864
01:24:41,206 --> 01:24:45,865
So it's not if if it can be taken away from you, then you don't own it.

865
01:24:46,025 --> 01:24:53,465
You can only own something that you can only lose by giving away or by literally losing in my mind.

866
01:24:54,786 --> 01:24:58,865
And so, yeah, proof of stake is utter trash.

867
01:24:58,865 --> 01:25:04,766
It's, again, it's the hole in the fence of the pasture.

868
01:25:05,145 --> 01:25:15,085
It is not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, that something will, yeah, that what you have will be taken from you without your permission.

869
01:25:15,786 --> 01:25:16,206
Right on.

870
01:25:16,726 --> 01:25:22,266
Recommendation seven, this is the last of the recommendation, recommendation seven for future policymaking efforts.

871
01:25:22,645 --> 01:25:25,985
Don't expect the next war to look like the last war.

872
01:25:25,985 --> 01:25:35,465
um yeah um that's lowry has went through the history of what results when that happens of

873
01:25:35,465 --> 01:25:41,345
thinking that they're going to come at us with this technology and not this new technology they're

874
01:25:41,345 --> 01:25:45,325
not going to use cannons against us because they didn't use cannons against us in the last war and

875
01:25:45,325 --> 01:25:52,565
so you make yourself um vulnerable to cannons so yeah yeah what do you think about that i don't

876
01:25:52,565 --> 01:26:07,246
I think that's just the fun part of his job, which is that you get to look at all of these wars in succession and then kind of apply the same principle to nature as well and look at all of the hierarchies in nature.

877
01:26:07,246 --> 01:26:11,405
But, I mean, the really cool thing is like, weapons are cool.

878
01:26:11,645 --> 01:26:12,806
Like, they're fun to look at.

879
01:26:12,905 --> 01:26:15,005
And so you get it like, oh, here's a cool sword.

880
01:26:15,025 --> 01:26:19,885
And then here's that sword that no longer is useful because this guy has a musket ball.

881
01:26:19,885 --> 01:26:24,465
and then the musket ball is no longer useful because the guy has a rifled shell

882
01:26:24,465 --> 01:26:27,065
and then a machine gun and then an airplane.

883
01:26:27,306 --> 01:26:29,565
Like, it's just, I think it's kind of cool.

884
01:26:29,985 --> 01:26:34,925
And I love the chart that he put up where it's like the progression of the weapons.

885
01:26:36,286 --> 01:26:39,965
And as they go up, they gain in power projection.

886
01:26:40,145 --> 01:26:42,806
And then he's got this offshoot with the drone technology.

887
01:26:43,885 --> 01:26:44,166
Yeah.

888
01:26:44,166 --> 01:26:47,385
I think drone technology is fascinating because it's doing this.

889
01:26:47,385 --> 01:26:51,045
It's going the opposite way.

890
01:26:51,226 --> 01:26:55,126
Instead of going up in the amount of power projected, it's going down.

891
01:26:55,126 --> 01:27:00,126
And the most efficient drone is going to be like a little bumblebee that stings you and kills you.

892
01:27:00,605 --> 01:27:02,126
Yeah, but that's still...

893
01:27:02,685 --> 01:27:08,585
So that chart is power projection techniques are becoming more and more dangerous,

894
01:27:09,206 --> 01:27:14,865
more and more kinetically powerful until they go past a kinetic ceiling where they become impractical to use.

895
01:27:14,865 --> 01:27:42,166
So that arc upward with strategic nuclear weapons has broken through that ceiling of practicality. It's no longer practical. And so one might think we can no longer engage in large-scale warfare with a nuclear-armed party. How about these small proxy wars, these small kinetic warfares, what's happened to Ukraine, something like that, where traditional forces do meet, even as larger powers withhold the use of their nuclear arms.

896
01:27:42,166 --> 01:27:45,706
but Lowry says we're going to see a fork

897
01:27:45,706 --> 01:27:48,626
away from nuclear arms

898
01:27:48,626 --> 01:27:49,706
in these smaller conflicts

899
01:27:49,706 --> 01:27:53,226
towards something perhaps like AI-powered drones

900
01:27:53,226 --> 01:27:55,325
the point is that even these small-scale conflicts

901
01:27:55,325 --> 01:27:58,005
are going to become kinetically more and more devastating

902
01:27:58,005 --> 01:28:00,025
the killing machine is not going to stop

903
01:28:00,025 --> 01:28:02,065
innovating and finding better ways to kill

904
01:28:02,065 --> 01:28:04,246
whether that's like you said the bee sting drone

905
01:28:04,246 --> 01:28:07,945
or like drones with grenades attached to them

906
01:28:07,945 --> 01:28:09,425
and there's just millions of them

907
01:28:09,425 --> 01:28:11,645
and they're operated by some AI

908
01:28:11,645 --> 01:28:19,425
and so perfectly like some ballet in the air that with pinpoint precision can go and kill any person they set out after.

909
01:28:20,126 --> 01:28:24,666
Maybe it's an engineered virus that attacks the DNA of the ethnic group you don't like.

910
01:28:24,666 --> 01:28:33,786
Like any kinetic offshoot to try to go around the stalemate that nuclear arms poses is itself going to arrive at a kinetic stalemate

911
01:28:33,786 --> 01:28:38,565
where it's impractical to use it because it's going to mutually assure destruction.

912
01:28:38,565 --> 01:28:42,005
I got a question for you

913
01:28:42,005 --> 01:28:46,065
don't expect the next war to look like the last

914
01:28:46,065 --> 01:28:49,965
oftentimes science fiction is a good way for us

915
01:28:49,965 --> 01:28:54,226
to imagine the future while we sit in a chair

916
01:28:54,226 --> 01:28:55,565
and enjoy entertainment

917
01:28:55,565 --> 01:28:59,306
what is the sci-fi movie piece of literature

918
01:28:59,306 --> 01:29:03,945
whatever that helps us to understand something like

919
01:29:03,945 --> 01:29:05,565
Bitcoin as a form of warfare

920
01:29:05,565 --> 01:29:10,185
as a protective electro-cyber dome within cyberspace,

921
01:29:10,346 --> 01:29:12,885
as a portal between the virtual and the real.

922
01:29:13,706 --> 01:29:16,126
There's a few times The Matrix was mentioned by Lowry.

923
01:29:16,385 --> 01:29:18,365
It's useful but not perfect.

924
01:29:18,905 --> 01:29:23,285
Do you, I just don't, my realm of reference is not great.

925
01:29:23,746 --> 01:29:27,565
What is the sci-fi movie or literature that's going to help us and other people,

926
01:29:27,706 --> 01:29:31,325
or is it yet to be made by some enterprising artist

927
01:29:31,325 --> 01:29:34,485
that is going to help us understand a software protocol?

928
01:29:34,485 --> 01:29:39,365
I think it's Tron. Have you seen Tron?

929
01:29:39,685 --> 01:29:42,685
Long, long time ago. What's the angle there?

930
01:29:43,545 --> 01:29:54,405
So what is proof of work? Proof of work is a race. It's a race to beat everybody else to the destination.

931
01:29:55,306 --> 01:30:00,325
And there's real world implications in terms of physical power.

932
01:30:00,325 --> 01:30:13,105
And in Tron, if I remember right, it's like a motorcycle race or a Tron whatever thing race in cyberspace, but with real world consequences.

933
01:30:13,405 --> 01:30:15,985
Like if he die there, he die.

934
01:30:15,985 --> 01:30:17,325
Nice. Yeah. Cool. Yeah.

935
01:30:17,425 --> 01:30:20,585
And it's a race just like proof of work.

936
01:30:20,585 --> 01:30:40,865
So I think that would be, I've been trying to think about this too, because so many future type technology stuff, they always have some sort of like archaic, steampunky type of thing going on where you just know looking at it, you're like, no, they're not going to use swords.

937
01:30:41,185 --> 01:30:41,706
Like, no.

938
01:30:42,266 --> 01:30:46,565
You know, no, they're not going to have elephants with lasers on them, you know.

939
01:30:46,865 --> 01:30:47,065
Yeah.

940
01:30:47,065 --> 01:30:49,685
But yeah, I think Tron does a good job.

941
01:30:50,605 --> 01:31:01,846
You know, so this originates, a lot of this theorizing in Tesla's observation that human out of the loop electronic electric warfare is going to replace kinetic warfare.

942
01:31:02,565 --> 01:31:09,865
So this has been human out of the loop warfare has been a thing in the consciousness for a long, long time.

943
01:31:09,965 --> 01:31:11,645
I wonder, is there a sci-fi or piece?

944
01:31:11,746 --> 01:31:14,706
Is there something that does already have human out of the loop warfare?

945
01:31:14,706 --> 01:31:17,706
I read Ender's Game once

946
01:31:17,706 --> 01:31:19,306
I don't remember all what it's about

947
01:31:19,306 --> 01:31:20,925
but I think perhaps

948
01:31:20,925 --> 01:31:23,126
if I recall correctly and I don't

949
01:31:23,126 --> 01:31:24,126
it was about that

950
01:31:24,126 --> 01:31:27,185
some enterprising person

951
01:31:27,185 --> 01:31:29,365
could read that book and tell me or look at the Wikipedia

952
01:31:29,365 --> 01:31:29,885
I guess

953
01:31:29,885 --> 01:31:33,145
I don't know of any human out of the loop

954
01:31:33,145 --> 01:31:35,166
ones that I'm sure

955
01:31:35,166 --> 01:31:37,485
they exist I've never really been into

956
01:31:37,485 --> 01:31:39,485
too much sci-fi I do like some

957
01:31:39,485 --> 01:31:41,565
but yeah the only ones

958
01:31:41,565 --> 01:31:42,746
I can think of are like

959
01:31:42,746 --> 01:31:46,425
where they're fighting with robots and stuff,

960
01:31:46,565 --> 01:31:48,525
but they're like inside the robots.

961
01:31:48,706 --> 01:31:51,266
They're not like remote controlling them or anything.

962
01:31:51,626 --> 01:31:52,726
Right, yeah, yeah.

963
01:31:53,226 --> 01:31:54,166
I don't know about that one.

964
01:31:54,685 --> 01:31:55,605
That's a great question.

965
01:31:56,306 --> 01:32:00,525
And it's this Bitcoin and thing, like Bitcoin and pop culture.

966
01:32:00,525 --> 01:32:04,485
Like right now, if someone did a survey of Bitcoin and pop culture,

967
01:32:05,045 --> 01:32:09,045
they would see a very niche culture, perhaps in X, formerly Twitter,

968
01:32:09,045 --> 01:32:13,365
of people doing certain Bitcoin-related art-type things.

969
01:32:13,885 --> 01:32:15,645
But otherwise, it would be like,

970
01:32:15,706 --> 01:32:18,385
oh, Bitcoin was mentioned casually in this movie

971
01:32:18,385 --> 01:32:19,246
or something like that.

972
01:32:19,385 --> 01:32:24,085
There's not yet something where Bitcoin is integral to it

973
01:32:24,085 --> 01:32:26,505
within the pop culture, either musically

974
01:32:26,505 --> 01:32:30,545
or in an artistic fashion, or movies or a series

975
01:32:30,545 --> 01:32:34,285
where Bitcoin is the thing that is the plot element

976
01:32:34,285 --> 01:32:37,545
or provides the structure of the entertainment.

977
01:32:37,545 --> 01:32:40,925
I think that that is going to happen.

978
01:32:42,005 --> 01:32:47,346
And it's going to be interesting to see what is the Bitcoin influenced art that emerges.

979
01:32:47,825 --> 01:32:54,425
And that influence being like really integral to what the work of art means and kind of the structure of it.

980
01:32:54,465 --> 01:32:57,465
Not just like, oh, we'll accept Bitcoin for the art or something like that.

981
01:32:57,706 --> 01:33:00,405
Or, oh, there was Bitcoin in this movie.

982
01:33:00,565 --> 01:33:06,666
No, like something where it is definitive of what that piece of art means within the context of human culture.

983
01:33:06,666 --> 01:33:19,045
There's a TV show, the guy who played Freddie Mercury in the Queen movie, where he's in this very near-term future where it's like evil corporation.

984
01:33:20,825 --> 01:33:24,965
Literally everything that we're seeing happen now was happening.

985
01:33:24,965 --> 01:33:35,945
And Bitcoin was like the very prominent – like the central bank digital currency that the evil bank put out was like very prominent.

986
01:33:38,065 --> 01:33:39,945
It played a very prominent role.

987
01:33:40,185 --> 01:33:40,685
What was it?

988
01:33:40,825 --> 01:33:42,766
It's called Mr. Robot.

989
01:33:43,266 --> 01:33:44,226
It's called Mr. Robot.

990
01:33:44,385 --> 01:33:46,306
Oh, I've heard of it, not seen it.

991
01:33:46,605 --> 01:33:48,365
Yeah, that's well worth it.

992
01:33:48,425 --> 01:33:52,465
That would be well worth it because it's almost like a step play-by-play.

993
01:33:52,465 --> 01:34:01,645
the focus the storyline is maybe a little more focused on the psychological nature of this guy

994
01:34:01,645 --> 01:34:08,285
i guess kind of but the really the core principles of like the banks are failing

995
01:34:08,285 --> 01:34:13,706
the corporations are evil they're pushing central bank digital currencies bitcoin is

996
01:34:13,706 --> 01:34:18,285
the way that you resist it yeah it's like yeah that that's yeah that'd be a really good one

997
01:34:18,285 --> 01:34:37,385
Yeah, yeah. Right. Anything where a work of art, a story or something like that acknowledges money as a form of surveillance or control would be an antecedent to like Bitcoin as are like within the tradition of like, here's something that augured the arrival of Bitcoin. So for sure, like, that's really, yeah, that'd be cool.

998
01:34:37,385 --> 01:34:51,246
And he's got movies on his, so reading through the credits or whatever, the citations, like Prometheus, the movie Any Given Sunday is in there.

999
01:34:51,465 --> 01:34:53,425
Like, you know, The Great Gatsby.

1000
01:34:53,905 --> 01:34:55,025
Like, this is cool.

1001
01:34:55,166 --> 01:34:58,246
Like, he drew a lot of pop culture stuff.

1002
01:34:58,246 --> 01:35:06,945
And so, yeah, I think if we're going to continue to think about this idea, then looking for inspiration in art is a really good idea.

1003
01:35:07,385 --> 01:35:11,706
For sure. And for all the artists out there, give us that inspiration.

1004
01:35:12,545 --> 01:35:24,405
What can you do to – what does Bitcoin mean to you at a really deep psychological level where psychology hits emotion for you and makes you feel something?

1005
01:35:24,405 --> 01:35:30,005
And then how can you channel that into something that's not like a Bitcoin slob or something like that?

1006
01:35:30,246 --> 01:35:34,445
So I want to see that. I want to feel that. I want that to exist.

1007
01:35:34,965 --> 01:35:35,206
Yeah.

1008
01:35:35,985 --> 01:35:37,645
Yeah, that would be nice in my world.

1009
01:35:38,445 --> 01:35:41,045
Yeah, so feeling something in my world too, man.

1010
01:35:41,085 --> 01:35:41,626
Just feeling anything.

1011
01:35:41,885 --> 01:35:42,825
That's all the recommendations.

1012
01:35:43,185 --> 01:35:44,085
Anything would be nice.

1013
01:35:47,105 --> 01:35:48,545
Bitcoin is hope one day.

1014
01:35:48,905 --> 01:35:51,806
So recommendation, we went through all seven of them.

1015
01:35:52,105 --> 01:35:56,285
That concludes chapter six as far as we summarized it, we talked about it,

1016
01:35:56,485 --> 01:35:57,746
we did the recommendations.

1017
01:35:57,746 --> 01:36:04,766
that brings us to kind of like a retrospective teary-eyed of the thesis in general.

1018
01:36:04,766 --> 01:36:12,626
And if you had anything, anything, I guess, that you wanted to say about it, any remaining insights, anything at all?

1019
01:36:14,126 --> 01:36:17,025
I think the idea is like cotton candy for the brain.

1020
01:36:17,206 --> 01:36:18,385
It's just so much fun.

1021
01:36:18,385 --> 01:36:30,706
Uh, it's just the, the, again, the reason why you and I decided to have this conversation was because we both started reading this and we were like, this is fascinating.

1022
01:36:30,706 --> 01:36:33,065
Like, this is really cool.

1023
01:36:33,825 --> 01:36:37,425
Um, it's a fun thing to think about and have a discussion on.

1024
01:36:38,145 --> 01:36:47,425
Um, I really enjoyed, uh, I don't know, like favorite takeaways.

1025
01:36:47,425 --> 01:36:52,905
it's funny I think my favorite takeaway is not something that actually had to do with research

1026
01:36:52,905 --> 01:36:58,485
it was just this idea of the grounded theory methodology like that truly is a better way to

1027
01:36:58,485 --> 01:37:05,806
answer questions and so I really am going to be viewing things so much differently and I guess I

1028
01:37:05,806 --> 01:37:10,105
would assume that grounded theory methodology is just like another way of saying first principles

1029
01:37:10,105 --> 01:37:19,145
thinking, but, um, it, it's just, you, you're like, look, it's, it's like watching someone

1030
01:37:19,145 --> 01:37:24,346
who's a professional wire up something after you've struggled to try and like put the stuff

1031
01:37:24,346 --> 01:37:25,145
in the right spot.

1032
01:37:25,145 --> 01:37:27,226
Like it, it's like, Oh, okay.

1033
01:37:27,226 --> 01:37:31,385
Maybe there's like more to this than just here to there.

1034
01:37:31,545 --> 01:37:35,085
Maybe there's a whole lot in between that we should consider.

1035
01:37:35,085 --> 01:37:36,785
So yeah, what about you?

1036
01:37:36,985 --> 01:37:43,965
Whenever somebody can, you have an object in your hand and you're staring at it and you're like, I've exhausted my experience of this object.

1037
01:37:44,126 --> 01:37:47,325
I perfectly understand everything this object has to offer.

1038
01:37:47,505 --> 01:37:50,525
And then that person picks it up and rotates it in your hand.

1039
01:37:50,525 --> 01:37:52,806
And you're like, there's a whole new angle on this thing.

1040
01:37:52,825 --> 01:37:53,185
I know nothing.

1041
01:37:53,726 --> 01:37:54,545
I know nothing.

1042
01:37:54,766 --> 01:37:55,605
It's like, yeah.

1043
01:37:56,246 --> 01:37:59,985
So all objects like recede from our ultimate understanding.

1044
01:37:59,985 --> 01:38:04,365
And so anybody that can take and unpack a new aspect of any phenomena.

1045
01:38:04,905 --> 01:38:08,706
And again, yeah, like that's what was an entry point for us.

1046
01:38:09,105 --> 01:38:13,645
I mean, like our whole project is like, what are the great books of Bitcoin?

1047
01:38:14,145 --> 01:38:20,405
Because Bitcoin is a much bigger phenomena than merely like trading or something like that.

1048
01:38:21,846 --> 01:38:27,666
It's going to transform in a strangler vine pattern many aspects of our lives.

1049
01:38:27,666 --> 01:38:38,865
And so what is the canon of literature that's going to help us understand this in all of its fullness, which is going to include and does include financial and monetary and economic thinkers, but it also includes other things.

1050
01:38:38,865 --> 01:38:48,525
And that's what is fascinating about this is unapologetically looking at something called Bitcoin from a non-coin related angle of military theory.

1051
01:38:49,045 --> 01:38:50,325
And so that's liberating.

1052
01:38:50,425 --> 01:39:03,685
I hope it's liberating for anybody listening, reading or whatever that you too can think about Bitcoin from whatever perspective you bring in your own life, like in your profession, anything like that.

1053
01:39:03,685 --> 01:39:05,266
And it's going to add something.

1054
01:39:05,266 --> 01:39:34,766
And not only can you bring your own perspective, but you can open yourself up to the fact that other people are trying to bring their perspectives and share them. And we can read, we can think about these ideas, and it's really going to enrich our understanding of this phenomena that, again, if it is what I think many of us think it is, it really is going to have some sort of transformatory impact on many aspects of our lives beyond merely

1055
01:39:35,266 --> 01:39:42,545
as a savings technology or whatever. Yeah. I think my favorite part of our discussions today

1056
01:39:42,545 --> 01:39:50,405
was when you brought up the comparison to the timeframe of people who were living and had the

1057
01:39:50,405 --> 01:39:56,525
knowledge of the Manhattan Project after Trinity before the world knew about it. And I think that

1058
01:39:56,525 --> 01:40:06,105
that is such a wonderful way to put what most people who are at this level and even not even

1059
01:40:06,105 --> 01:40:13,346
not even near this level but just like believers in bitcoin i think are walking around in that the

1060
01:40:13,346 --> 01:40:18,445
you know that same mode where it's like the world is about to be changed and no one knows it and i

1061
01:40:18,445 --> 01:40:24,425
know it and i can't do anything about it and so you know you just i guess do what you can but

1062
01:40:24,425 --> 01:40:52,485
Yeah. I made the comment, by the way, earlier about how I think it's such a tragedy that all of these brilliant minds that were like physics, engineers, statisticians, mathematicians, that their talents went to waste and were used to abuse the used to abuse society through the faults of the power hierarchy in the financial services industry.

1063
01:40:52,485 --> 01:41:00,806
I also think about, you know, so those physicists would have become physicists, not financial analysts.

1064
01:41:01,025 --> 01:41:04,626
And the mathematicians would have been mathematicians, not quants.

1065
01:41:05,045 --> 01:41:07,565
And they would have done real good for the world.

1066
01:41:07,706 --> 01:41:17,945
And I think I thought about another parallel, which was that so in order to enforce that power-based hierarchy, you have to have a legal system that is just massive.

1067
01:41:17,945 --> 01:41:25,885
um and so then you get a lot of brilliant minds that are going into law um uh because there's

1068
01:41:26,445 --> 01:41:32,766
in in some places opportunity for a lot of money there and i and in the same way i think about like

1069
01:41:32,766 --> 01:41:36,985
what would the physicists have done if they hadn't gone to wall street i think about what would the

1070
01:41:36,985 --> 01:41:43,005
lawyers have done if they hadn't gone to dc and i think a lot of them would have become philosophers

1071
01:41:43,005 --> 01:41:54,425
And I think we may be entering an era where that's one of the things is that maybe what you and I are doing is just a natural outcropping of this.

1072
01:41:55,126 --> 01:41:55,306
Yeah.

1073
01:41:55,846 --> 01:42:02,385
Where, you know, like you're a lawyer who is now effectively a philosopher right now.

1074
01:42:02,626 --> 01:42:04,865
So, you know, I mean, you always have been.

1075
01:42:04,865 --> 01:42:05,565
I see that at this point.

1076
01:42:05,825 --> 01:42:06,045
Yeah.

1077
01:42:06,145 --> 01:42:11,545
You always have been, but it's more of an expression of your true nature, I think.

1078
01:42:11,545 --> 01:42:12,645
So, yeah.

1079
01:42:12,645 --> 01:42:12,865
Yeah.

1080
01:42:13,005 --> 01:42:13,525
Perhaps.

1081
01:42:13,965 --> 01:42:21,925
So I wonder how that applies to like brilliant minds that were misallocated to other fields as well and like what they would be doing, you know?

1082
01:42:22,266 --> 01:42:22,945
Yeah, yeah.

1083
01:42:23,525 --> 01:42:24,005
Yep.

1084
01:42:24,605 --> 01:42:29,166
There's going to be vast disruption and everybody in their own life.

1085
01:42:29,166 --> 01:42:37,085
I mean, if as Lowry says, like the term national defense is now going to change because national is going to change.

1086
01:42:37,085 --> 01:42:47,005
I mean, we all define ourselves in relation to our membership in the nation state, in relation to how state power interacts with our daily lives.

1087
01:42:47,005 --> 01:42:52,746
Like these are aspects, whether we are consciously aware of it or not, that I think constitutive of our identity.

1088
01:42:53,885 --> 01:43:04,626
Certainly, as you point out, constitutive or contributory or determinative of how we use our time to what we dedicate, what vocations we dedicate our lives.

1089
01:43:04,626 --> 01:43:20,445
What are the vocations to which one can dedicate themselves? When the nature of the polity, the nation state changes, is disrupted by a technology that decentralizes key aspects of what the government used to do.

1090
01:43:20,445 --> 01:43:27,185
I mean, it's like the new Doge office in the form of a protocol. It's eating things away. I mean,

1091
01:43:27,246 --> 01:43:33,325
just in a sort of natural way. What does that mean for each of us individually? As you mentioned,

1092
01:43:33,525 --> 01:43:40,525
maybe it shifts a lot of people into more productive endeavors or fulfilling. I think

1093
01:43:40,525 --> 01:43:44,525
that's a really good way to put it. Like, what does it mean to be human? And maybe Bitcoin allows

1094
01:43:44,525 --> 01:43:51,465
us to ask ourselves that on a much more frequent basis because that's the project if you don't have

1095
01:43:51,465 --> 01:43:57,126
to worry about how am i going to save my value how am i going to protect myself from the wolves

1096
01:43:57,126 --> 01:44:02,865
and the abstract power-based hierarchy the people above me exploiting me what do i got to do to

1097
01:44:02,865 --> 01:44:09,325
protect myself and the ones i love if you can free up a lot of that time maybe you can rededicate it

1098
01:44:09,325 --> 01:44:14,445
to exploring your humanity through whatever project is much more fulfilling.

1099
01:44:14,445 --> 01:44:21,105
I think we're seeing that authenticity is the most marketable skill,

1100
01:44:21,945 --> 01:44:26,465
the ability to be authentic and to genuinely try to connect

1101
01:44:26,465 --> 01:44:31,626
because what we're seeing is the realization of Kevin Kelly's Thousand True Fans

1102
01:44:31,626 --> 01:44:40,145
where anybody who is genuinely doing something out of love

1103
01:44:40,145 --> 01:44:45,645
and putting work into it and trying to answer the question of what is my purpose

1104
01:44:45,645 --> 01:44:48,645
by answering it with to have a purpose

1105
01:44:48,645 --> 01:44:51,766
and to have a purpose that I can dedicate myself to.

1106
01:44:52,525 --> 01:44:52,545
Yeah.

1107
01:44:52,726 --> 01:44:57,545
I mean, just because you're seeing like this creator economy is utterly exploding.

1108
01:44:57,545 --> 01:45:10,405
And so, yeah, I think that's where it comes down is that you just have people who realize that they do have a calling.

1109
01:45:10,405 --> 01:45:32,865
Like it's whether you call it spiritual or just sort of a recognition that you are meant to do something extraordinary in the way that it's extraordinary for the type of purpose and fulfillment that you'll have from it.

1110
01:45:33,865 --> 01:45:36,645
I think that's I think that's where it moves us.

1111
01:45:36,645 --> 01:45:49,706
I think that's the direction it takes us because we're able to, you know, carry wealth further into the future without having to continuously, you know, fight, fight growth, basically.

1112
01:45:50,605 --> 01:45:55,706
Yeah. Yeah. As Saylor says, you spend 40,000 hours working.

1113
01:45:55,825 --> 01:45:59,806
Why not spend 100 hours figuring out how to preserve the value that you make from that work?

1114
01:45:59,846 --> 01:46:04,585
And what happens when you do put in those hours and the technology arrives that allows you to save those?

1115
01:46:04,585 --> 01:46:18,285
Maybe that 40,000 ticks way down and these projects of authenticity, even unmarketable authenticity, maybe those become much more forefront in people's minds.

1116
01:46:18,645 --> 01:46:19,825
So, yeah, I hope so.

1117
01:46:19,985 --> 01:46:21,045
But that's – I don't know.

1118
01:46:21,445 --> 01:46:26,085
That's what I have to say, I think, about software for the time being.

1119
01:46:26,166 --> 01:46:26,626
What do you think?

1120
01:46:26,825 --> 01:46:28,206
Software needs a MAGA hat.

1121
01:46:29,266 --> 01:46:29,706
There we go.

1122
01:46:30,785 --> 01:46:31,085
Yeah.

1123
01:46:32,085 --> 01:46:32,565
Yeah.

1124
01:46:33,246 --> 01:46:34,166
How about that?

1125
01:46:34,166 --> 01:46:42,425
Yeah. And that's it. Yep. I'm good. I'm good. You guys, thanks for, thanks for giving us reason

1126
01:46:42,425 --> 01:46:47,465
to continue doing these. It's been a lot of fun and excited to see where it goes next.

1127
01:46:47,685 --> 01:46:54,785
You can follow Grant on X at the whole frame. You can follow me at Lucas Maddy. Podcast will

1128
01:46:54,785 --> 01:47:01,266
be up on YouTube and Spotify and X. So cool. Thanks, man. Awesome. Calm up for