1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,980 Yeah, so we just got done talking to Jeff Booth, literally just got done, hit end on the session, 2 00:00:07,340 --> 00:00:13,120 and both turned and smiled to each other and said effectively the same thing. 3 00:00:13,220 --> 00:00:15,520 What a genuine human. 4 00:00:15,860 --> 00:00:17,300 Yeah, and understanding, too. 5 00:00:17,300 --> 00:00:19,440 It's always intimidating when you talk with somebody. 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:25,020 You know, Bitcoin lore can and slay your heroes, but also your heroes are very intimidating, 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,080 and people who are just so intelligent. 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,760 and then when you talk to somebody also it's just so kind it's just so great to talk to people like 9 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:36,680 that because we're not podcast hosts we're not podcast hosts we're just people having conversations 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:42,220 two dudes sitting in chairs that your mom recovered yes you re-impulsed these things it makes a weird 11 00:00:42,220 --> 00:00:46,000 noise when i go like this in the background they're trying to have conversations i nod my head 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:52,340 and like there's this like racket but no it's it's so great to be in a space right where you 13 00:00:52,340 --> 00:00:56,620 We talk to people and they're just kind and genuine people and also super intelligent. 14 00:00:56,620 --> 00:01:00,480 And we were talking about just the way that Jeff answers a question you can ask. 15 00:01:00,740 --> 00:01:08,420 And there is a superficial response that could easily be given that would kind of address the direct question you gave. 16 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:09,840 But Jeff doesn't do that. 17 00:01:10,140 --> 00:01:18,740 He starts from like first principles reasoning, the species of first principle reasoning that he has, which is you're currently in the matrix. 18 00:01:19,060 --> 00:01:21,220 What would you think if you were in the matrix? 19 00:01:21,220 --> 00:01:22,760 What would you be led to think? 20 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,660 Here's what you would be led to think. 21 00:01:24,740 --> 00:01:25,800 That's the way you're thinking now. 22 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,600 So you're thinking within the matrix. 23 00:01:27,820 --> 00:01:30,480 Now, what would you think if you were then outside of it? 24 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:31,140 How would you build? 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,820 And so he kind of builds you up rhetorically, like it's rhetorical questions. 26 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,740 But the answers, they follow from his, again, first principle assessment. 27 00:01:40,980 --> 00:01:45,400 This is the type of way you would be thinking if the system was the way it was or something like that. 28 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,740 Yeah, it's on the surface of it. 29 00:01:48,1000 --> 00:01:57,500 If you're just listening for hot takes and you're just listening for something like flashy, you're not going to get that. 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:03,080 But what you are going to get is, hey, Jeff, how do you make a club sandwich? 31 00:02:03,380 --> 00:02:06,1000 And his answer is going to be, well, let me tell you about a farm. 32 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:07,560 Yeah. 33 00:02:07,620 --> 00:02:08,960 Let me tell you about a plow. 34 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:10,100 And yeah. 35 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:16,480 And the thing is, that's the right way to answer that question. 36 00:02:16,540 --> 00:02:16,860 Yes. 37 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,280 Because it's all involved. 38 00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:27,360 And then it's like, okay, now let me question the assumptions at every single level. 39 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:35,740 Because our thoughts would be, if you just said you put the sandwich and the bread together, our presuppositions would be, and I bought those at a store or something like that. 40 00:02:35,740 --> 00:02:40,960 But like you think beyond the sandwich, beyond the store, where do things come from? 41 00:02:41,020 --> 00:02:43,380 The first principles generation of our ideas. 42 00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:48,1000 And he uses this phrase control system to describe like the society we're in. 43 00:02:48,1000 --> 00:02:56,400 I kind of reductively tried to call it like fiat monetary system or something like that at some point in the conversation to get a handle on what he's thinking. 44 00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:59,240 But he doesn't just like fall back on labels. 45 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:08,200 He has this idea of us being controlled by just the system we are in, whatever it is. 46 00:03:08,300 --> 00:03:09,460 You're the fish swimming in water. 47 00:03:09,620 --> 00:03:10,620 Yeah, it's the water. 48 00:03:10,700 --> 00:03:11,340 You're the fish swimming in water. 49 00:03:11,620 --> 00:03:13,200 And what do you know about water? 50 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:14,400 Because it's always been there. 51 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:14,800 Yeah. 52 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:15,100 Yeah. 53 00:03:15,420 --> 00:03:16,300 You don't see it, right? 54 00:03:16,340 --> 00:03:17,780 It's your medium that you swim in. 55 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,020 It's transparent to you. 56 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:26,700 And what he's trying to tell us is that Bitcoin is not a different pond. 57 00:03:26,940 --> 00:03:28,080 It's not a different ocean. 58 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:33,500 it's not water it's something that we haven't experienced it's not a control system and so 59 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:40,600 we come from this at like everybody wants to reason by analogy because it's easier and it 60 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:47,580 allows us to kind of visualize that's why we were talking in the earlier episode that we recorded 61 00:03:47,580 --> 00:03:54,320 we were talking about is a web address really an address because like an address is a place 62 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:55,800 Physical. Yeah, spatial. 63 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:03,880 And digital has no space, but we're taking these terms that are spatial and we're applying them to digital, which has no spatial. 64 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,240 Yeah. I think Lowry talks about that as reification. 65 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,040 Like we talk about the computing cloud. 66 00:04:09,180 --> 00:04:10,880 It makes it benevolent, benign. 67 00:04:10,1000 --> 00:04:12,840 Oh, let's put our information in the cloud. 68 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,520 No, you're giving your information to other people. 69 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,800 Yeah. You're just putting it on a billion different servers. 70 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:27,900 Yeah, yeah. And so address, I just wonder if there's some, it translates easily from the physical to the digital. And we understand it's how you direct yourself to somebody else. 71 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:45,020 It's more like an incantation. It's a spell, almost. Like that's what you're doing when you're typing. You're just saying the right combination of numbers and letters to conjure up whatever it is that you're trying to conjure. 72 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:45,400 Yeah. 73 00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:46,740 It's witchcraft. 74 00:04:46,740 --> 00:04:47,220 Yeah. 75 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:56,740 It is a cult in its operation for sure for someone like me who looked at an old box cathode ray TV and is like, this is from the future. 76 00:04:57,060 --> 00:04:57,380 This is good. 77 00:04:57,660 --> 00:04:57,800 Yeah. 78 00:04:57,980 --> 00:04:59,220 This is Terminator 4. 79 00:04:59,700 --> 00:05:00,800 We should have stopped here. 80 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:01,720 We should have. 81 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,520 I was contemplating getting a new television and everybody's recommending smart TVs. 82 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:13,400 I was like, I want an inert black square that plays the movie that I plug into it externally from a DVD player. 83 00:05:13,660 --> 00:05:18,760 I don't want something that talks to me and is friendly and jovial and has a bunch of junk in it. 84 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:19,880 So, yeah. 85 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,440 But he throws that into it, too. 86 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,900 Like, he, you know, he's not naive. 87 00:05:26,780 --> 00:05:31,840 In fact, probably less naive than most. 88 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:32,420 Yeah. 89 00:05:32,420 --> 00:05:37,460 Yet he is perhaps the most optimistic person that we've talked to. 90 00:05:40,420 --> 00:05:48,260 He didn't say it on this podcast, but I've seen him say it on other podcasts that, you know, he loves every second of his life. 91 00:05:48,260 --> 00:05:49,600 He loves everything that he's doing. 92 00:05:49,820 --> 00:05:51,740 He even loved his seconds on our podcast. 93 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:57,360 And that is saying something about your ability to motivate good conditions of existence through your thoughts. 94 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:05,660 And like, but like comparing it to people that, you know, use plant medicine, you know, psychedelics and stuff to go touch that state of oneness. 95 00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:09,720 But then they come back into this world and they lose that ability. 96 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:18,420 and uh you know he's like by by removing yourself from the control system and that's that's the 97 00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:25,100 functional part that we need to explore um in just how to do that but basically like there are no 98 00:06:25,100 --> 00:06:31,720 rules i make the rules um in that by removing yourself you're able to to just live in that 99 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:37,840 state of oneness yeah at all times and the way you know someone can trivialize it as like new age 100 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:41,460 to talk about generating consciousness and determining your response. 101 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,400 But it's absolutely not. 102 00:06:43,540 --> 00:06:47,180 And I specifically like zeroing in on his response to the question about Marx. 103 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:48,220 It's just an inversion. 104 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,920 I mean, Marx, the material conditions of existence, generate our consciousness. 105 00:06:53,780 --> 00:06:55,900 And then Jeff is the exact opposite. 106 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:57,780 And it's a philosophical position. 107 00:06:57,780 --> 00:06:58,800 It's not new age. 108 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:04,180 It is well thought out that, no, our thinking generates our material reality. 109 00:07:04,180 --> 00:07:09,180 And so begin with your thoughts and then begin to meddle in the world. 110 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,060 And that's the way when he talks about Bitcoiners. 111 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,340 You can be a person who has Bitcoin and uses it within the control system. 112 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:34,557 You are completely different than somebody who is a Bitcoiner or whatever outside of the control system You looking for the right moment to trade it for fiat you looking for ways you can leverage it to get other things or whatever it not just no this is what freedom is is participating in a free market and that is its own value 113 00:07:34,557 --> 00:07:39,897 yeah so where do you like where do you start to remove yourself from that system i think 114 00:07:39,897 --> 00:07:46,577 like you start by if you want to determine your wealth you look at it in terms of how much bitcoin 115 00:07:46,577 --> 00:07:53,577 do I have, not how much dollars do I have in Bitcoin. And I'm not checking the Bitcoin price. 116 00:07:53,957 --> 00:08:03,677 I'm not looking at how they model it within that control system. And then also to just really lean 117 00:08:03,677 --> 00:08:09,477 into what he talks about as being superordinate to all, which is love and belonging. And he does 118 00:08:09,477 --> 00:08:15,037 the great job of inverting that as well, which is talking about, well, if love and belonging is the 119 00:08:15,037 --> 00:08:20,837 truth that is above the other truths or is at the bottom of all the truths from which all the other 120 00:08:20,837 --> 00:08:26,477 truths spring, then what would the system opposite of that look like, which would be like hate and 121 00:08:26,477 --> 00:08:34,297 exclusion? And when you put it into that terms, I think it's really, he did such a great job of 122 00:08:34,297 --> 00:08:41,657 talking about, what was it, like the Patriot Act is the opposite of patriotism. It always is the 123 00:08:41,657 --> 00:08:45,657 The Inflation Reduction Act was just inflation explosion. 124 00:08:45,917 --> 00:08:48,137 Stable coins are guaranteed lost coins. 125 00:08:49,277 --> 00:08:50,877 And so what's the Genius Act? 126 00:08:51,397 --> 00:08:52,677 What's the illusion of a genius? 127 00:08:53,977 --> 00:08:54,417 Yeah. 128 00:08:54,877 --> 00:08:56,797 Oh, God, that's going to be true. 129 00:08:57,177 --> 00:08:58,437 That's going to be true. 130 00:08:58,457 --> 00:09:00,137 I don't even know what all the Genius Act does. 131 00:09:00,257 --> 00:09:01,097 Maybe it does some good things. 132 00:09:01,097 --> 00:09:02,397 There is some dumb stuff in it. 133 00:09:02,397 --> 00:09:04,597 I think there is some dumb stuff in it. 134 00:09:04,597 --> 00:09:05,237 That is true. 135 00:09:05,517 --> 00:09:05,697 Yeah. 136 00:09:06,297 --> 00:09:07,257 There's one thing. 137 00:09:07,477 --> 00:09:08,457 I don't know if I disagree. 138 00:09:08,457 --> 00:09:14,397 so the talk and i mean you started off there i didn't hear the podcast where he talked about 139 00:09:14,397 --> 00:09:19,837 belonging and love being superordinate so i kind of came in to that conversation in media res and 140 00:09:19,837 --> 00:09:26,017 then heard um booth start talking about it and i tried to fit it into his talk like the price of 141 00:09:26,017 --> 00:09:32,997 tomorrow right his book it's it's a view he has of human nature i think like he i asked him 142 00:09:32,997 --> 00:09:45,317 Is this an evolutionary view? And he does think that this is a condition we find about ourselves, that we need love and belonging due to an evolutionary history that led us to need these things to make us cooperative or something like that. 143 00:09:46,377 --> 00:09:49,877 I just tend to have a much more cynical exposition of human nature and understanding. 144 00:09:49,877 --> 00:09:52,657 You think we're bastard-coated bastards dipped in bastard chocolate. 145 00:09:52,857 --> 00:09:59,077 Which is why Bitcoin is fantastic, right? It's the solution of the problem of trust. We can't trust other apex predators. We can't. 146 00:09:59,077 --> 00:10:03,357 We need ways to mediate and coordinate cooperation without trust. 147 00:10:04,077 --> 00:10:07,197 It's not that I think that this person just wants love and belonging. 148 00:10:07,397 --> 00:10:11,137 I think that they want a position higher than me on a dominance hierarchy. 149 00:10:11,797 --> 00:10:14,877 And so, you know, they may also want love and belonging. 150 00:10:14,877 --> 00:10:23,537 We have lots of, Samson mentioned this, like inconsistent drives within us that some serve different evolutionary purposes. 151 00:10:24,157 --> 00:10:28,057 I just also think, there's no doubt that we all want love and we all want belonging. 152 00:10:28,057 --> 00:10:34,217 But we also all want – not all, but enough of us want a high position on the dominance hierarchy. 153 00:10:34,717 --> 00:10:38,437 We also want like sexual access to the right partners. 154 00:10:38,677 --> 00:10:44,377 We also want a huge reserve of resources so we can survive whatever winter, you know? 155 00:10:44,637 --> 00:10:48,697 Yeah, but don't we want that because that's our interpretation of what love and belonging is? 156 00:10:48,697 --> 00:10:56,497 um like i you know like i grew up poor and i want to be a billionaire because i feel like that's where 157 00:10:56,497 --> 00:11:03,337 um i'm safe yeah i i grew up unloved and therefore i want to sleep with a thousand women because that 158 00:11:03,337 --> 00:11:11,137 makes me feel wanted um you know like that that's just i think that that is downstream 159 00:11:11,137 --> 00:11:18,517 of love and belonging and i want to call out that perhaps that framework that you're talking about 160 00:11:18,517 --> 00:11:22,737 is within that control structure of a zero-sum game. 161 00:11:23,497 --> 00:11:28,197 That to stand on the peak, to be at the top of the dominance hierarchy, 162 00:11:28,197 --> 00:11:34,637 is to believe in the zero-sum that you do have to take, 163 00:11:34,737 --> 00:11:37,277 that you do have to conquer, that you do have to be a predator. 164 00:11:37,777 --> 00:11:40,897 Yeah. The natural condition of history, or the natural, 165 00:11:41,477 --> 00:11:43,637 the condition of nature is scarcity. 166 00:11:43,937 --> 00:11:46,437 It is zero-sum. We evolved in that condition. 167 00:11:46,437 --> 00:11:53,297 Jason Lowry talks about this, you know, Samson talks, anybody who considers evolution talks about, you know. 168 00:11:53,557 --> 00:11:56,257 Nature also has symbiotic relationships, right? 169 00:11:56,477 --> 00:11:59,017 They have symbiotic organisms that like nature works. 170 00:11:59,017 --> 00:12:00,017 As a defense strategy. 171 00:12:00,357 --> 00:12:00,957 Yeah. 172 00:12:01,517 --> 00:12:02,417 Against other predators. 173 00:12:02,417 --> 00:12:19,597 But it's offensive. Like, it works in harmony. You know, the bee, the flower, the little fish swimming in and out of the whale's teeth, munching on the little niblets and the ones that are on the body, clearing away the parasites and stuff. Like, nature is... 174 00:12:19,597 --> 00:12:31,577 So, which of those are humans? Are we the wolf or are we the fish that swims and nibbles at the tooth? I think we're the wolf. I think that's what humans have always been as apex predators. We devour. We don't nibble at the teeth of other creatures. 175 00:12:32,237 --> 00:12:33,157 But I think we're both. 176 00:12:33,297 --> 00:12:39,337 I think we're, I think we are, there are some examples of people that are that, and then there are others that are latching on. 177 00:12:40,577 --> 00:12:46,637 Like you, you had the question to Jeff about, you know, what if you have muscular dystrophy or. 178 00:12:47,297 --> 00:12:48,577 And to give context to that question. 179 00:12:48,837 --> 00:12:49,057 Yeah. 180 00:12:49,497 --> 00:12:52,757 It's asked in good faith because I do a summer camp in the past. 181 00:12:52,837 --> 00:12:55,237 I've done it many times with people who have muscular dystrophy. 182 00:12:55,237 --> 00:13:02,617 And so I'm friends with lots of people on Facebook who are either themselves extremely disabled or work with the extremely disabled. 183 00:13:02,617 --> 00:13:15,237 And to people like that, not universally, but they tend to be generally less libertarian because they're like the state really needs to be involved to care for certain people because it's not going to be done otherwise. 184 00:13:15,657 --> 00:13:17,817 And they can't care for themselves through no fault of their own. 185 00:13:18,137 --> 00:13:22,677 And so I ask that question like in good faith because I want to know the answer to that too. 186 00:13:22,677 --> 00:13:29,937 Like, I'm a generally free market person, but it strains the free market when we think about human vulnerability, that we're animals. 187 00:13:30,097 --> 00:13:35,017 We are born into a condition of vulnerability as children and which are dependent on adults. 188 00:13:35,317 --> 00:13:44,297 And we inevitably, our body decays into another stage of dependency as we become elderly and depend on care. 189 00:13:44,797 --> 00:13:49,157 Humans, we depend on care when we cannot reciprocally care for others. 190 00:13:49,157 --> 00:14:04,997 Yeah, but that presumes that the state is the only one that will provide because it is acknowledging the control structure that says that it's a zero sum game and that people will not, you know, just give to that. 191 00:14:04,997 --> 00:14:28,337 And I almost jumped in because I was about to say, like, I feel like there's an obvious answer to this because your question was around, like, you know, if we live in this post-economic society, this post-economic world where everything is abundant and people are able to express the particular fractal or mosaic of their own genius to the best of their ability. 192 00:14:28,337 --> 00:14:30,297 I love Jeff's description of that, by the way. 193 00:14:30,297 --> 00:14:31,777 I mean, maybe not off the cuff. 194 00:14:31,797 --> 00:14:34,117 He's probably said it before, but that's a very beautiful description. 195 00:14:34,117 --> 00:14:52,413 And I do believe on a heartfelt level that that true outside of whatever market that somebody everybody does have a particular genius to add I sorry Well but I mean your question was like well what you know what is it what there for those people What there for those people that need that care And to me 196 00:14:52,433 --> 00:14:56,573 it's just very obvious is that, well, there's a world of abundance, then they're not going to 197 00:14:56,573 --> 00:15:01,553 need that care to come from another individual, that they're going to have everything that they 198 00:15:01,553 --> 00:15:12,033 need, probably have the advancements in medicine and things like that to cure it as well. But even 199 00:15:12,033 --> 00:15:14,374 And if like, let's just assume that that doesn't happen. 200 00:15:14,713 --> 00:15:15,773 And it's not the case right now. 201 00:15:15,874 --> 00:15:17,633 So like, how do we operate right now? 202 00:15:17,693 --> 00:15:17,833 Yeah. 203 00:15:17,973 --> 00:15:23,233 So, but just like say, okay, well, what if you could just replace the human caretaker 204 00:15:23,233 --> 00:15:26,953 with the robot caretaker for one twentieth of the cost? 205 00:15:27,273 --> 00:15:29,133 Again, in a near-term future, that might be possible. 206 00:15:29,933 --> 00:15:30,393 What's that? 207 00:15:30,473 --> 00:15:31,933 In a near-term future, that might be possible. 208 00:15:32,053 --> 00:15:33,233 It cannot happen right now. 209 00:15:33,233 --> 00:15:36,853 Yeah, but like, it's like, we're talking like very near-term future. 210 00:15:37,093 --> 00:15:37,313 We'll see. 211 00:15:37,433 --> 00:15:38,833 Like very, like, like. 212 00:15:38,874 --> 00:15:40,393 People need to survive until we get to. 213 00:15:40,393 --> 00:15:46,013 I'm trying to just roll out like a couple hundred thousand humanoid robots that are capable of effectively. 214 00:15:46,013 --> 00:15:55,853 If you go to a disabled person right now who can't care for themselves and say, we're going to take away all of the state provision care that you receive because we're going to get robots in five years. 215 00:15:56,013 --> 00:16:06,273 Nobody's arguing that. Nobody's arguing that. What I'm saying is that it will be the case that with abundance, whenever it occurs, that those individuals will have everything that they need. 216 00:16:06,273 --> 00:16:11,673 And they will be able to express themselves way more fully at less cost. 217 00:16:11,973 --> 00:16:12,733 Why maybe? 218 00:16:13,473 --> 00:16:23,993 I'll only say, this is maybe not what you were thinking, but the ability to express oneself depends on having developed with human interaction the ability to express oneself. 219 00:16:24,173 --> 00:16:28,874 And so a robot can never fully help a person develop into a human. 220 00:16:28,874 --> 00:16:48,993 But if it can get you where you need to, if it can take you to the, you know, if it can get you out of the house every single day with the same sort of mobility that a human has to be able to meet up with all these other people that were previously homebound that could only go somewhere if they had a person that was willing to take them there, then you're going to explode their opportunity. 221 00:16:48,993 --> 00:17:00,913 And in fact, it now makes me think that perhaps one of the greatest untapped resources will be that community that has previously been sort of locked up. 222 00:17:01,033 --> 00:17:02,413 Like Stephen Hawking was in a wheelchair. 223 00:17:02,573 --> 00:17:04,473 What if his wheelchair had fucking rockets on it? 224 00:17:04,893 --> 00:17:06,493 And he could just go, hey, you know what? 225 00:17:06,533 --> 00:17:08,093 I'm going to New York City today. 226 00:17:08,194 --> 00:17:09,753 An exoskeleton where he moves around. 227 00:17:09,893 --> 00:17:10,733 Yes, whatever thing. 228 00:17:10,893 --> 00:17:13,613 But no, I agree with all of that. 229 00:17:13,714 --> 00:17:17,253 But we can't live in a near-term future that is not the present. 230 00:17:17,373 --> 00:17:18,473 We have to live in the present. 231 00:17:18,473 --> 00:17:28,733 And so as long as we agree that right now, however predatory the state is, we require maybe state provisioned care or like we need to ensure that charitable giving is going to – 232 00:17:28,733 --> 00:17:30,214 It's not state provisioned care. 233 00:17:30,333 --> 00:17:31,633 The state provisions nothing. 234 00:17:31,813 --> 00:17:34,653 All of the provisions of the state come stolen from the people. 235 00:17:34,653 --> 00:17:36,053 So they require stolen care. 236 00:17:36,053 --> 00:17:36,593 So there's no – 237 00:17:36,593 --> 00:17:37,513 Call it whatever you will. 238 00:17:38,073 --> 00:17:41,954 We need to steal right now from people so that we can care for our most vulnerable. 239 00:17:42,214 --> 00:17:42,493 Yes. 240 00:17:42,613 --> 00:17:43,473 That's the case, right? 241 00:17:44,153 --> 00:17:44,613 Maybe. 242 00:17:44,853 --> 00:17:45,073 Yeah. 243 00:17:45,194 --> 00:17:45,954 It seems to be the case. 244 00:17:45,954 --> 00:17:49,353 It's a bad situation, but we live in a very bad world. 245 00:17:49,473 --> 00:17:50,393 We live in a fallen world. 246 00:17:50,513 --> 00:17:51,393 We live in a great world. 247 00:17:51,593 --> 00:17:52,753 We live in a world that's getting better. 248 00:17:53,414 --> 00:17:55,233 And we live in a world we can keep on making better. 249 00:17:55,333 --> 00:17:58,353 But we don't live in a perfect world, and so we can't have perfect solutions. 250 00:17:58,353 --> 00:18:00,133 So we live in the best world that's ever existed. 251 00:18:01,273 --> 00:18:02,194 Okay, Candide. 252 00:18:03,113 --> 00:18:04,253 It's like— 253 00:18:04,253 --> 00:18:05,214 Like, is it not better? 254 00:18:05,553 --> 00:18:05,813 Yeah. 255 00:18:05,914 --> 00:18:07,113 Is it not better than in 1900? 256 00:18:07,313 --> 00:18:09,873 Is it not better than 1700 and 1000? 257 00:18:09,973 --> 00:18:10,473 It's getting better. 258 00:18:10,473 --> 00:18:11,533 Is it not better than 1985? 259 00:18:12,313 --> 00:18:14,053 Neither here nor there, but it's getting better. 260 00:18:14,954 --> 00:18:17,253 So we live in the best world that's ever existed in this world? 261 00:18:17,273 --> 00:18:17,914 Oh, I see what you're saying. 262 00:18:18,773 --> 00:18:20,194 We live in a very good world. 263 00:18:20,253 --> 00:18:27,613 You could say we live in the best world as long as you don't say that to obscure or occult the very severe deficiencies we need to be fighting to remedy. 264 00:18:28,013 --> 00:18:30,893 But that's just – that's the whole check your privilege thing. 265 00:18:30,973 --> 00:18:32,773 It's like I can't enjoy this thing unless I also – 266 00:18:32,773 --> 00:18:33,853 You can enjoy it. 267 00:18:33,853 --> 00:18:34,553 Keep on fighting. 268 00:18:34,553 --> 00:18:40,653 Like I can't say that this is the best world without also saying that, oh, they're still suffering. 269 00:18:41,033 --> 00:18:42,653 I can say that it's the best world. 270 00:18:42,653 --> 00:18:45,093 Yeah, as long as you also acknowledge this other thing. 271 00:18:45,353 --> 00:18:47,153 Yeah, why? Why do I need to acknowledge that? 272 00:18:47,153 --> 00:18:53,793 You don't need to verbally acknowledge it, but in this conversation, some people will say this is the best world, and so I'm taking my chips and going back to my mansion. 273 00:18:55,373 --> 00:18:55,593 Some. 274 00:18:55,973 --> 00:18:56,233 Yeah. 275 00:18:56,714 --> 00:18:57,013 Yeah. 276 00:18:57,333 --> 00:18:57,633 Yeah. 277 00:18:57,633 --> 00:19:14,873 But I mean, those are also the people that currently are having all their chips stolen from them in order to fund a incredibly inefficient state process that, you know, say you probably take $100 from people and $1 of it actually ends up helping out. 278 00:19:14,873 --> 00:19:37,773 Yeah, listen, I think it's all fucked up, too. I just don't know what the right answer is, because I'm reading another book, too, Dependent Rational Animals. I'm reading with this from our mutual friend Rick by Alistair McIntyre. And his whole thesis in this book is he is a moral philosopher who did, he's passed away, did serious work in the realm of moral philosophy, ethics, like what is the right action in a given set of circumstances. 279 00:19:37,773 --> 00:19:51,493 And the point in this book is we've developed our ethical theories typically as if we're all kind of perfectly free moral agents, like autonomous people that can choose this way or that way. 280 00:19:51,613 --> 00:20:03,873 We don't typically build into our moral theories a recognition that we all pass through stages of vulnerability and dependence in which we cannot give to other people what we need to get in return. 281 00:20:04,053 --> 00:20:05,993 There's going to be a non-reciprocal exchange. 282 00:20:05,993 --> 00:20:07,153 We rely on others. 283 00:20:07,773 --> 00:20:29,233 And so I just like keep on challenging myself with that because I am a very free market person. I do dislike the government. I agree, like with our conversation with Sal Pineda, all of the personal pain that inflation causes, too. It's not just, you know, not just thievery. It's something more like structural violence. It is something that hurts people. 284 00:20:29,233 --> 00:20:41,833 But I struggle to think, you know, how do we also acknowledge our own individual vulnerabilities and periods of vulnerability and also people who will be profoundly stuck in that stage their entire life? 285 00:20:42,694 --> 00:20:56,194 But there's like, OK, so everybody has their own optimist that alleviates nearly all of that vulnerability to the point that what you need other humans for is simply human connection. 286 00:20:56,194 --> 00:20:59,153 You don't need them to take you to the bathroom. 287 00:20:59,213 --> 00:21:00,993 And when we get to that point, that'll be fantastic. 288 00:21:01,174 --> 00:21:02,593 But we don't live there yet. 289 00:21:02,973 --> 00:21:03,333 We do. 290 00:21:03,473 --> 00:21:04,954 It's just not evenly distributed. 291 00:21:05,573 --> 00:21:05,954 And that's what. 292 00:21:06,213 --> 00:21:07,553 That is the case. 293 00:21:07,733 --> 00:21:08,414 Like the case is. 294 00:21:08,513 --> 00:21:10,213 That's no sucker to the person who doesn't have it. 295 00:21:10,373 --> 00:21:12,333 Like don't worry, bro. 296 00:21:12,434 --> 00:21:14,553 We got the technology, but you don't get it yet. 297 00:21:14,613 --> 00:21:16,753 Maybe 10 years, it'll be equally distributed. 298 00:21:17,013 --> 00:21:18,414 But good luck. 299 00:21:21,113 --> 00:21:22,493 We agree on this. 300 00:21:22,653 --> 00:21:23,593 No, we don't. 301 00:21:23,613 --> 00:21:24,053 We do. 302 00:21:24,233 --> 00:21:24,533 We do. 303 00:21:24,533 --> 00:21:25,713 No, we don't. 304 00:21:25,713 --> 00:21:28,454 Because, again, you're focusing on the negative. 305 00:21:29,533 --> 00:21:29,893 Right. 306 00:21:30,053 --> 00:21:30,914 And you're focusing on the positive. 307 00:21:30,993 --> 00:21:31,694 And they're both true. 308 00:21:31,853 --> 00:21:33,513 It's just like we need to find a way to integrate them. 309 00:21:33,633 --> 00:21:33,773 Yeah. 310 00:21:33,773 --> 00:21:35,273 But the truth is what you believe in. 311 00:21:35,613 --> 00:21:36,153 Not all. 312 00:21:36,833 --> 00:21:37,613 It is. 313 00:21:37,813 --> 00:21:38,393 I can't. 314 00:21:38,694 --> 00:21:44,133 If I am disabled and need care, I can't think my way into being cared for. 315 00:21:44,233 --> 00:21:45,553 I need somebody to give you something. 316 00:21:45,553 --> 00:21:45,793 Yeah. 317 00:21:45,853 --> 00:21:49,853 But if you're disabled and need care, then you have a better outlook than any other person 318 00:21:49,853 --> 00:21:53,513 who has ever existed that was disabled and needed care. 319 00:21:53,813 --> 00:21:53,914 Yeah. 320 00:21:53,993 --> 00:21:54,973 You still need care, though. 321 00:21:55,713 --> 00:21:57,773 Right, but I still need food. 322 00:21:58,653 --> 00:21:59,473 Everybody has needs. 323 00:21:59,473 --> 00:22:00,153 You can go out. 324 00:22:00,153 --> 00:22:01,174 Everybody has needs. 325 00:22:01,293 --> 00:22:02,033 I need shoes, right? 326 00:22:02,033 --> 00:22:03,133 You have the ability to go out. 327 00:22:03,174 --> 00:22:04,753 The guy with no legs doesn't need shoes. 328 00:22:04,973 --> 00:22:16,890 Like does he have to acknowledge that I need shoes No because you have the ability to go out and in a free market or even in a non market to do some work get some money and go buy the shoes This person doesn have a skill like you do 329 00:22:16,890 --> 00:22:18,690 where you can go out and work to get the money 330 00:22:18,690 --> 00:22:20,030 and then go buy the shoes or whatever. 331 00:22:20,210 --> 00:22:25,210 The world is trended like away from any sort of manual labor 332 00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:26,790 into white collar labor. 333 00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:28,950 Like there's nothing that, you know, 334 00:22:29,010 --> 00:22:31,270 unless you are like there's the exclusion here 335 00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:34,210 of like mentally disabled, but physically disabled, 336 00:22:34,930 --> 00:22:40,410 They're a physically disabled person now is more equal to an able-bodied person than at any point in history. 337 00:22:40,530 --> 00:22:41,770 And they're only gaining. 338 00:22:41,850 --> 00:22:42,490 They're getting better. 339 00:22:42,810 --> 00:22:43,090 They're only gaining. 340 00:22:43,210 --> 00:22:46,910 I'm talking about people like meet a person with serious muscular dystrophy. 341 00:22:47,490 --> 00:22:48,910 Some of them can't talk. 342 00:22:48,990 --> 00:22:50,990 Some of them have ventilators breathing for them. 343 00:22:51,230 --> 00:22:52,710 Some of them, they can't type either. 344 00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:55,010 They can barely operate a power wheelchair. 345 00:22:55,310 --> 00:22:56,470 They can't move their limbs. 346 00:22:57,130 --> 00:22:59,390 Yeah, but now they have Neuralink and they can stick a thing in their brain. 347 00:22:59,490 --> 00:23:01,050 They can communicate telepathically. 348 00:23:01,230 --> 00:23:03,470 They can drive a car and they can read a book. 349 00:23:03,470 --> 00:23:04,510 and they can write. 350 00:23:04,970 --> 00:23:08,010 If they had developed with a sense of autonomy from birth, 351 00:23:08,130 --> 00:23:09,470 the thing with disabled people, 352 00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:11,290 and this happens to everybody, 353 00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:13,250 but it tends to happen to disabled people more often, 354 00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:15,990 unfortunately, is their wings are clipped psychologically 355 00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:17,150 from a very young age 356 00:23:17,150 --> 00:23:20,410 because they're not told you can do anything. 357 00:23:21,030 --> 00:23:23,470 They rely on their parents' care for everything. 358 00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:25,150 Some of them age 35, 359 00:23:25,370 --> 00:23:26,970 they're still living in their parents' house. 360 00:23:27,490 --> 00:23:30,150 And so you meet some, not all disabled people, 361 00:23:30,270 --> 00:23:31,870 but many you'll meet them 362 00:23:31,870 --> 00:23:39,390 And they have almost a childlike aspect because they there was no point when they could just be thrown out and get out of the house and get a job. 363 00:23:39,490 --> 00:23:42,270 They were always, you know, it's a very sad thing. 364 00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:43,170 It is the case. 365 00:23:43,230 --> 00:23:47,870 People are psychologically crippled, too, oftentimes due to a disability through no fault of their own. 366 00:23:48,430 --> 00:23:56,250 It's just a more extreme example of what Jeff was talking about, was the control system that we live in, where we have been psychologically. 367 00:23:56,250 --> 00:23:56,770 For sure. 368 00:23:56,950 --> 00:24:08,250 That we don't know what true freedom feels like because we constantly are looking for someone to turn towards rules and make it fair and do this and do that for us. 369 00:24:08,290 --> 00:24:11,090 It's a continuum and a gradient of crippling for sure. 370 00:24:11,170 --> 00:24:11,430 It is. 371 00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:11,730 Absolutely. 372 00:24:11,730 --> 00:24:15,650 And we're just saying that, like, yeah, I mean, you're just picking a spot on it. 373 00:24:16,030 --> 00:24:16,630 I'm picking one. 374 00:24:16,670 --> 00:24:18,530 And we're also on it and we're hard. 375 00:24:18,670 --> 00:24:20,210 But there's lower than that too. 376 00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:20,590 There is, definitely. 377 00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:21,030 Yeah. 378 00:24:21,170 --> 00:24:22,150 And there's even worse. 379 00:24:22,270 --> 00:24:23,050 You're absolutely true. 380 00:24:23,150 --> 00:24:23,910 But there's also better. 381 00:24:24,010 --> 00:24:25,070 There's also better for sure. 382 00:24:25,210 --> 00:24:25,430 You know? 383 00:24:25,450 --> 00:24:25,590 Yeah. 384 00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:40,110 But to the extent that you are of the view that because everybody's possessed of equal dignity, everybody needs to be allowed to live some sort of life, a dignified life, then we're going to have to provide something for some people more than for others. 385 00:24:40,110 --> 00:24:58,190 Yeah, but dignity is a personal thing. Like, if you look at someone and you say, because you can't go outside, because you can't put your shoes on, because you can't shower yourself, you don't have dignity, that is you making a judgment on them that is a result of your own fear of not being able to have those freedoms. 386 00:24:58,830 --> 00:25:04,990 That there are plenty of people that live a disabled life that do not feel disabled. 387 00:25:05,150 --> 00:25:06,070 Yeah, yeah. 388 00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:18,390 And so that's not like you're putting your own fear upon them in calling them or in saying that they don't have the ability to have dignity. 389 00:25:19,410 --> 00:25:20,550 No, I didn't say they didn't have the ability. 390 00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:24,850 I said we all have dignity regardless of whatever level of capacities we have. 391 00:25:24,910 --> 00:25:28,830 It's like the Christian notion of having a soul essentially is what I was getting at. 392 00:25:29,230 --> 00:25:33,190 I mean like it's – there's nothing that's undignified about having a wheelchair. 393 00:25:33,650 --> 00:25:38,730 There's nothing that's undignified about having somebody have to help you use the bathroom. 394 00:25:38,730 --> 00:25:47,650 No. And so as long as they have somebody to help them use the bathroom and instead are not living in squalor and filth because nobody's caring for them, then that's an undignified state. 395 00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:55,210 When they need if you need help using the restroom and nobody's there to help you, nobody's to have to live like that. 396 00:25:55,690 --> 00:25:57,270 But that's your judgment. 397 00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:59,710 I'm definitely a judgment. I'm comfortable making. 398 00:25:59,710 --> 00:26:03,610 Yeah, there's one of, was it Epictetus? I can't remember. 399 00:26:04,170 --> 00:26:06,010 You're going to push stoicism on the disabled for sure. 400 00:26:06,010 --> 00:26:10,450 One of the great philosophers that was like, you know, he just chose to live in squalor, live in that. 401 00:26:10,890 --> 00:26:12,910 And, you know, that was his choice. 402 00:26:13,170 --> 00:26:13,850 Diogenes, maybe? 403 00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:18,270 He was definitely dignified in his own mind. 404 00:26:18,450 --> 00:26:22,450 You can certainly be dignified and live in something that somebody else defines as squalor. 405 00:26:22,610 --> 00:26:23,230 You can be. 406 00:26:24,750 --> 00:26:26,570 It's imparting your own judgment on it. 407 00:26:26,570 --> 00:26:26,730 Yeah. 408 00:26:26,730 --> 00:26:34,710 there are more and less dignified ways to live there are not they're all individual 409 00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:42,410 um they all depend on they're all contextual for sure um but i i just think that we need to make 410 00:26:42,410 --> 00:26:48,410 sure that everybody has the resources if they are unable to acquire them themselves through severe 411 00:26:48,410 --> 00:26:54,010 vulnerability dependency of that is unchosen that they have the ability to access a minimally 412 00:26:54,010 --> 00:26:54,950 dignified life. 413 00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:56,110 Yeah, but thinking the state 414 00:26:56,110 --> 00:26:57,270 is going to provide that. 415 00:26:57,470 --> 00:26:59,170 I'm open to other avenues. 416 00:26:59,170 --> 00:27:00,270 Well, I mean, what I'm saying 417 00:27:00,270 --> 00:27:01,270 is like the state has 418 00:27:01,270 --> 00:27:02,570 like a proven track record 419 00:27:02,570 --> 00:27:03,630 of not doing that 420 00:27:03,630 --> 00:27:05,170 despite taking huge amounts 421 00:27:05,170 --> 00:27:05,810 of funds for it. 422 00:27:05,810 --> 00:27:06,670 It has a proven track record 423 00:27:06,670 --> 00:27:08,110 of holding those people hostage 424 00:27:08,110 --> 00:27:08,730 to say, 425 00:27:08,870 --> 00:27:09,790 if you don't give me 426 00:27:09,790 --> 00:27:10,390 a bunch of money, 427 00:27:10,490 --> 00:27:11,470 these people are going to die. 428 00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:13,110 I mean, that's the sick part, right? 429 00:27:13,150 --> 00:27:13,970 The state will say, 430 00:27:14,090 --> 00:27:15,290 give me all your taxes 431 00:27:15,290 --> 00:27:17,030 because we needed to support 432 00:27:17,030 --> 00:27:18,110 this vulnerable population. 433 00:27:18,510 --> 00:27:19,470 Also, I'm going to go 434 00:27:19,470 --> 00:27:20,710 invade this country over here. 435 00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:22,890 Don't knock a bunch of shit over. 436 00:27:22,890 --> 00:27:34,990 So that's – it is true. Like I think the state is abhorrent in that way. I just struggle to see in our present circumstances any configuration of enlightened consciousness that can remedy what is a material deficiency. 437 00:27:36,190 --> 00:27:37,450 Is there anything the state does well? 438 00:27:38,450 --> 00:27:46,470 There is something that – again, democracy is – like they say, democracy is not the best system, but it's the least worst. 439 00:27:46,770 --> 00:27:52,170 Maybe the state is a stage we passed through where it was not – it's not the best thing, but it's like the least bad we could do. 440 00:27:52,170 --> 00:27:54,290 I don't know. It's in any case where we find 441 00:27:54,290 --> 00:27:55,850 ourselves historically. It seems to be. 442 00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:58,130 I would agree with that. I would say that 443 00:27:58,130 --> 00:27:59,850 that is the case, that it's just the 444 00:27:59,850 --> 00:28:01,550 yeah, it's 445 00:28:01,550 --> 00:28:03,990 I mean, that's kind of like the argument 446 00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:05,850 of it's like whoever 447 00:28:05,850 --> 00:28:08,310 whoever enslaved the other people 448 00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:09,830 was the worst humans in the world. 449 00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:12,090 Everybody was trying to enslave everybody else. 450 00:28:12,170 --> 00:28:13,810 They were just the ones that were better at it. 451 00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:16,250 And so you're just getting mad at somebody for being 452 00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:17,670 competent where 453 00:28:17,670 --> 00:28:19,250 you're 454 00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:22,150 it is. It's again, it's a continuation 455 00:28:22,150 --> 00:28:28,130 of the what booth was talking about was just the victimhood thing is just get away from the 456 00:28:28,130 --> 00:28:35,110 victimhood get away from the you know that i'm in this situation because of yeah you know i'm in 457 00:28:35,110 --> 00:28:42,570 this situation because i choose so yeah i think we settled it i think i do i do think we agree 458 00:28:42,570 --> 00:28:47,310 we're just pushing and pulling because we both dislike the state a lot and we don't want to 459 00:28:47,310 --> 00:28:51,510 we're both savvy to like the way the world is but we also want to find a better future 460 00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:52,270 and it's tough. 461 00:28:52,670 --> 00:28:53,930 I think they do good with flags. 462 00:28:54,730 --> 00:28:56,430 Some states make nice flags. 463 00:28:56,650 --> 00:28:58,750 I'm trying to say something nice about the state. 464 00:29:00,190 --> 00:29:00,670 Patriotism. 465 00:29:01,770 --> 00:29:04,390 Yeah, I don't think that has anything to do with the state, actually. 466 00:29:05,610 --> 00:29:06,390 I don't know. 467 00:29:06,390 --> 00:29:07,390 Great propaganda. 468 00:29:07,710 --> 00:29:09,530 They've made some really good movies. 469 00:29:10,190 --> 00:29:11,230 Really good movies. 470 00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:11,830 They did. 471 00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:12,910 Questionable songs. 472 00:29:13,250 --> 00:29:13,570 Yeah. 473 00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:14,090 Yeah. 474 00:29:14,430 --> 00:29:16,410 I mean, you'll never be just Tom Cruise 475 00:29:16,410 --> 00:29:18,330 and like a F-16 or something 476 00:29:18,330 --> 00:29:20,130 just screaming above an American flag 477 00:29:20,130 --> 00:29:21,590 and an eagle flies nearby 478 00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:23,170 and then you turn over 479 00:29:23,170 --> 00:29:24,510 and there's a bust of George Washington. 480 00:29:24,690 --> 00:29:25,190 You're just like 481 00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:26,970 thrumming with patriotism 482 00:29:26,970 --> 00:29:28,330 and just like, 483 00:29:28,390 --> 00:29:29,270 I've won. 484 00:29:32,110 --> 00:29:33,490 Oh, let freedom ring. 485 00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:33,970 All right. 486 00:29:34,050 --> 00:29:34,210 Yeah.