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Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for joining us back here again for your favorite fourth tier podcast with second tier haircuts and first tier guests.

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Today, we're joined by Sultan. He is a Bitcoin OG and a gangster, been mining Bitcoin for years out of Venezuela.

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And he has recently become a little bit of kind of a kind of a cultural phenomenon on Bitcoin Twitter due to some statements that he's made and some things about his.

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the way that he was able to matriculate out of Venezuela through Bitcoin mining.

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And so we're just super excited to talk to him.

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Sultan, thank you for joining us.

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And if you would, can you kind of walk us through sort of where you're at in your life now

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and how you got there starting in Venezuela and to the point where you're at now

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and kind of how you were able to get there?

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yeah look at this point it's been um what this is going to be the 13th year since i got into bitcoin

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uh 13 years ago i was just like at my house i was helping my pops put together like a

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like a pc for his for his company he's he's an architect so he needed like a sick graphics cards

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or whatever um he had a he had this small business in the country where he had to sometimes like

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import goods from outside of the country. It was also like an issue, you know, ever since he started

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his business in Venezuela, like in the 90s and Chavez became a president to basically make yourself

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with dollars, right, to pay for goods outside of Venezuela. You like being unable on their

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controlled currency exchange, being able to make payments, you know, with your Venezuelan bank

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account basically so i built this pc for my dad then he had this like payments issue and i'm like

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dad maybe there's this thing called bitcoin that we could use to that we could even mine with the

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computers that you have you know in your office uh and we could start like using bitcoin to make

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payments to europe etc and keep like importing goods and then also we can buy this bitcoin thing

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with Bolivars. So all of the goods that you sell were able to like grab all the free cash flow that

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you have in Bolivars, buy Bitcoin and then repay your suppliers to keep importing goods into the

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country. So that's how I initially got into Bitcoin. Like I just wanted to help my dad.

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How did you? OK, wait. So how did you how did you know about Bitcoin?

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Yeah, I was in high school at the time and I had already a friend in high school who had mined

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Bitcoin with graphics card. Same thing. We were all basically PC gamers or something. Right.

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And so like learning about Bitcoin on Reddit or like on community threads or like where like where do you guys even.

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I mean, I remember I saw the white paper in 2009 on Reddit.

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I read it and then just completely forgot about it for like 12 years, 11 years.

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yeah look 2013 i i think combination of reddit but also just twitter and youtube right like you

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you already found like tutorials on youtube and people talking about mining uh and how you like

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you could configure the a6 that was all like almost like publicly available at that point

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crazy uh and so we were these like teenagers watching these videos on youtube of like

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huge mining farms in China. And we're like, OK, how do we get into this? So from graphics card to

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the first A6 to importing one of the first S1s and S3s into Venezuela, co-founding one of the first

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Bitcoin mining farms in Venezuela, helping other people install Bitcoin mining farms. Man, that

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whole era for Venezuelans was really that Bitcoin mining boom in Venezuela, which basically

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kick-started the p2p market in latin america it was all defeated by bitcoin mining activity

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and local bitcoins volume coming from venezuela basically um but really bitcoin mining back then

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you know 2013 14 15 in venezuela mostly the people that got later after the i would say the

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early adopter group, we were like 20 people building Bitcoin mining farms, right? All those

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hundreds and thousands of people that mined Bitcoin in the country afterwards, they really

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just wanted to make themselves with dollars, not with Bitcoin. So they were just selling it

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immediately. Yeah. So I would say like in 2013, 2012 in Venezuela, it was maybe a group of maximum

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30 people talking about Bitcoin as the future of the internet money, digital gold, the internet

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gold. Those were basically the discussion stand. So look, that was an amazing ride. I had at some

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point 200 or 300 ASIC units running at the same time. I co-founded everything with like private

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capital, funded my family, my dad, etc. So basically, my co-founder was my dad. By 2015,

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2016, when the Venezuelan government really started seeing this noticeable activity of Bitcoin mining

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in the country, right? People are like using excess energy in some parts of the capital in the country

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to what is this Bitcoin mining thing and really like start digging into it, right?

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that's when we cashed out and got out of, seized all of our Bitcoin mining operations and sold it

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because you were starting to fall under the radar of the Venezuelan government.

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2017 is when the seizure, 2016-2017 is when the seizure of Bitcoin mining hardware really started

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because in 2017, US sanctions kicked on the country.

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and that's when really for the government

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after for like a year or a year and a half

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studying Bitcoin mining and P2P markets

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and local Bitcoins, etc.

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and cracking down some CeFi exchanges, right?

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People that were opening accounts in banks in Venezuela

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and trying to be the Kraken or the Coinbase of Venezuela.

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All of those experiments failed

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and were cracked down in Venezuela

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Because the government had the ability to go directly to the bank and ask them to close and seize the assets in the bank.

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The only platform and activity that continued subsisting the purview of the government in 2016, 2017 was P2P markets,

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so local Bitcoins, right?

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Because it's fully P2P.

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There's no way to, like, right?

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And then Bitcoin mining.

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So by 2017, with the sanctions, that's what forced the Venezuelan regime to really say, hey, we got to find an alternative.

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We can't use the SWIFT system any longer.

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We can't use the SEPA payment system in Europe.

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The state oil company is sanctioned.

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The central bank is sanctioned.

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The main government officials are sanctioned.

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A network of over 100 people with close ties to the government got sanctioned.

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What do we use?

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Interesting.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So that's really when I said, okay, in Venezuela, there's really, first of all, there's no law for mining Bitcoin anymore.

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Like you are getting into a high risk business if you want to mine Bitcoin in Venezuela.

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because you will need to get a Bitcoin mining license issued by the Venezuelan government.

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A ministry of cryptocurrency, the Sunacrypt, was created, right?

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And so it really became difficult.

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By 2017, I said, maybe we really also have like a custody problem in Venezuela.

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By 2017, that's when really, you know, on Bitcoin Twitter,

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People were talking about like, you know, so hardcore self custody, run your own note kind of thing, you know, run lightning over your note when you didn't even have like a lightning wallet.

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I ran one of the first Bitcoin lightning notes inside Venezuela.

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I got the lightning torch back then when people rotated it all over the world.

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So that was super cool.

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I mean, all that history of mining in Venezuela, whatever, really Venezuela was like an interesting topic when you talk to Bitcoiners globally.

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But I would say, I would argue that until 2017, when hyperinflation kicked in Venezuela, really wasn't on social media like the Bitcoin community wanting to discuss so much about Venezuela.

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So that gave me the opportunity to basically open up my voice to the Bitcoin community and start telling my story, start telling what's happening in Venezuela, etc.

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I had this small custody startup in Venezuela.

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I was trying to help the Venezuelan Central Bank build like a multi-signature scheme to custody Bitcoin in Venezuela.

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Because I was trying to argue that if Venezuela had already been the country with the most mining activity and most B2B activity for Bitcoin in South America,

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why shouldn't we develop a multi-signature solution to have Bitcoins ourselves and custody them?

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that's when no El Salvador

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no Nayib Bukele existed

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no nation states

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were still in a Bitcoin

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and you were an idiot

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talking about Bitcoin

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with central bankers

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did anybody listen?

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some people listen

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but

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until now

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it's been a hard business

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and a sanctioned business

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dealing with the Venezuelan government

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so dude

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as of 2017

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and how everything

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developed in Venezuela

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I said

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it is dirty business.

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It is hard business.

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I'm going to try, you know, to finally be a migrate outside of the country.

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Bitcoin and all this industry was really going way more global.

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And I said, who can I help co-found another startup globally?

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So I joined Lettend via this Venezuelan co-founder, Mauricio Di Bartolomeo.

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He already knew me from the Bitcoin Venezuelan scene.

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I said, man, I'm getting out of Venezuela.

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you know how can i give you a hand so i joined lennon's uh marketing team i was like the 15th

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person to join the team now they're like i saw the company grow all the way up to 137 people

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we raised more than 570 million dollars at lennon man after i joined it was a rocket ship but

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you know eventually ftx thing uh the ftx thing happened right so it wasn't a sexy business being

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on the lending side of Bitcoin.

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And I had met this Luxor Technology co-founder

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in El Salvador, Ethan Vera.

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I reached out to him and I said,

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man, do you need a quarterback on your sales team

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or a marketing team or whatever?

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A heavy, you know, like a hectic Bitcoin

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or somebody that knows the industry or whatever.

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And really that was the right, man,

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because I didn't know much about Luxor Technology

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before joining, honestly.

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I know that was like related to Bitcoin mining software services.

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They had like a pool or whatever, but that was an amazing ride.

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And that was probably the hardest Bitcoin pill that I've had to swallow

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in this 13 years of everything that I've done in Bitcoin.

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I helped Luxor launch half-rate derivatives.

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So basically, we were the first people to like sell,

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like market as a commodity, Bitcoin compute power.

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That's fucked, man, you know?

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For me, I started in all of this, basically connecting almost like an ASIC next to my microwave with Free Electricity in Venezuela to data centers at the intersection of AIHPC curtailing energy in Texas with ERCUD programs.

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What the heck, man?

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That's beautiful to see.

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It is beautiful.

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And I'm really interested, Sultan, in the social context in which you begin to do all this.

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like back when you're first starting in 12 or 13 or whatever. So you'd said 2017 is when

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hyperinflation hits and that's when it becomes a hot topic for Venezuela. But even before then,

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so just from an outside perspective, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but Venezuelan is known

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for having kind of a socialist revolutionary movement and socialist ideology. How did that,

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you know, you growing up in that environment, I suppose it's taught in the high schools,

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How does that kind of interact with the ideology you're getting through Bitcoin of this kind of international free market?

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Yeah, man.

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I mean, they took every single sector in Venezuela taken by the government.

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OK, so all this socialist interaction for 25 years of, you know, my lifetime almost is just, dude, there's you got to always try to reduce the state however you can.

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OK, you've got to take as much as you can from the state, honestly.

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so right now after everything that happened with the u.s intervention in venezuela now it's a

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gradual game of how do we continue reducing the state and privatize shit okay so i when i went to

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high school i bought one empanada with like 20 or 50 bolivars if you account for the 14 zeros that

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have been removed from the venezolan bolivar you're almost talking about a quadrillion bolivars

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uh to buy that same empanada so you went from 20 and 50 to five quadrillion it almost sounds stupid

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it is like it is insane right okay it almost sounds like what what are you talking about you idiot

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How is anyone still alive? How can anyone how can anyone live there?

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Like, I mean, so I lived in Colombia. I lived in Posto.

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And at the intersection of every single street at every single street corner, there would be people who were, you know, panhandling or like doing something at the at the intersection.

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And I remember asking my host, I was like, you know, the people that are at your intersections, they're way more entertaining than the people that ask for money at intersections in the United States.

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And he said, well, these are all like, like, these are Venezuelan people that walked here from Venezuela to escape the country.

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And, you know, these are not people that are down on their luck by their own choice.

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These are people that lost everything because of what the government did to their money.

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So, I mean, what just like in terms of like, can you frame what has the exodus of Venezuelan people been like and what is it like for the people that remain?

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Because we were not sure what to believe about the news that comes out of Venezuela post the hijacking of Maduro and taking him taking him for a ride.

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So, I mean, who is left and what do they think about the situation with the United States coming in and kidnapping a president?

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Who's left? Old people, poor people.

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OK, and that accounts for like 70 or 80 or more percent.

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OK, and all the all the wealthy, most of the wealthy people that left the country were the ones that left the country.

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and the people that actually had like a college degree and stuff.

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So it's really not that much.

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Because also at some point, even if you are a part of the new generation,

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you start figuring out how to work over the internet.

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You are looking to make the most amount of money that you can

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to just go to another better digital hub in South America or Europe or whatever.

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Because you need light.

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You need better internet connectivity.

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You want better wages.

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because if you're talking to a potential employer

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and you're from Venezuela,

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they're kind of like, you know,

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you just earn less money.

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So, yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I'll tell you,

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I am excited of the Venezuelan exit.

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Nowadays, I'm excited of how all these years,

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the Venezuelan diaspora

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has built this network of knowledge, okay?

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Globally, of Venezuelans globally.

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Man, Brazil has,

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almost 207 or 210 million people.

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Okay?

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Brazilians love the U.S.

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There's a lot of Brazilians in the U.S.,

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but there's like 600,000.

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They're not even a million.

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There's more than a million Venezuelans.

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We're a country of 30 million people,

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not 210 million people.

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Ooh.

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Wow.

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A country the size of L.A., basically,

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a little bigger than L.A.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and 1 30th of that has moved

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just to the United States.

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Yeah.

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I want to answer a part of your question

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that's related to this whole social layer.

226
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:20,727
If you read this Andrew Dickens money and hyperinflation what it called It Fiat Money Inflation in France by white Andrew Dickens right That like the whole history of how hyperinflation happened for a second time in France

227
00:18:20,727 --> 00:18:23,167
after it had happened already, okay?

228
00:18:23,546 --> 00:18:24,987
The first time, whatever.

229
00:18:25,806 --> 00:18:28,667
Dude, it's the same shit, okay?

230
00:18:28,667 --> 00:18:32,907
It's like hyperinflation had happened like two generations ago.

231
00:18:32,907 --> 00:18:38,586
the grandparents of whoever were, you know, the new generation in 1974

232
00:18:38,586 --> 00:18:45,306
were the ones that remembered what ended up being the result of printing money

233
00:18:45,306 --> 00:18:48,627
and issuing a new currency and all of that.

234
00:18:48,806 --> 00:18:50,546
But the new generation didn't know it.

235
00:18:50,546 --> 00:18:54,487
So you got new politicians and new senators talking about,

236
00:18:54,667 --> 00:18:55,927
hey, you know what?

237
00:18:56,167 --> 00:18:59,507
We're going to survive this economic crisis with this new currency

238
00:18:59,507 --> 00:19:02,687
and it's going to be backed by land.

239
00:19:03,427 --> 00:19:05,447
And that's why it's not going to fail this time.

240
00:19:05,787 --> 00:19:09,227
And they ended up melting even like, you know,

241
00:19:09,527 --> 00:19:13,566
gold from churches and shit to back new currency issuances.

242
00:19:14,227 --> 00:19:17,887
So, bro, take it to the 21st century in Venezuela.

243
00:19:18,107 --> 00:19:20,127
It's the same playbook, okay?

244
00:19:20,767 --> 00:19:22,027
It is the same playbook.

245
00:19:22,607 --> 00:19:25,066
Fiat is a hard bitch to kill.

246
00:19:25,066 --> 00:19:31,427
That is one of the most certain things that a Venezuelan can have learned today.

247
00:19:31,806 --> 00:19:37,306
Because still, today, 75% of the transactions in the Venezuelan economy are in bolivars.

248
00:19:38,367 --> 00:19:45,306
The Venezuelan government collects more than almost like $6 or $4 billion a year from taxes in bolivars.

249
00:19:46,586 --> 00:19:51,467
The biggest buy now, pay later startup of Latin America is Venezuela.

250
00:19:51,467 --> 00:19:54,647
And it only operates in Venezuela.

251
00:19:55,066 --> 00:19:55,987
In Bolivar's.

252
00:19:57,147 --> 00:19:57,586
Wow.

253
00:19:59,326 --> 00:19:59,887
Man.

254
00:20:01,127 --> 00:20:02,467
I want to go back to-

255
00:20:02,467 --> 00:20:03,086
You know what, man?

256
00:20:03,527 --> 00:20:05,027
It's one more currency.

257
00:20:05,427 --> 00:20:07,066
And if it becomes a back currency,

258
00:20:07,367 --> 00:20:10,747
the market will look for a better form of currency.

259
00:20:11,147 --> 00:20:12,947
And that's exactly what happened in Venezuela.

260
00:20:12,947 --> 00:20:18,727
People started trying to look for, you know, payments in digital payments in dollars.

261
00:20:19,707 --> 00:20:21,787
Oh, what is this cryptocurrency alternative?

262
00:20:22,586 --> 00:20:22,806
Right?

263
00:20:22,806 --> 00:20:31,887
then stable coins came and the whole stable coin factor like i've for 10 years i was a hardcore

264
00:20:31,887 --> 00:20:41,566
bitcoin maxi i'm still am i still am like i root for bitcoin and but usdt became 90 percent of the

265
00:20:41,566 --> 00:20:47,847
crypto transactions in venezuela when i as a miner from 2013 on the way almost to 2017

266
00:20:47,847 --> 00:20:50,806
saw that most of the volume was all Bitcoin.

267
00:20:51,227 --> 00:20:55,407
All the remittances and payments being sent in and out of Venezuela

268
00:20:55,407 --> 00:20:58,967
were mainly being transmitted through local Bitcoins and Bitcoin.

269
00:20:58,967 --> 00:21:03,007
And Bitcoin lost that to USDT and Binance.

270
00:21:03,747 --> 00:21:03,847
Yep.

271
00:21:04,167 --> 00:21:08,667
And now the U.S. can export their inflation through that digital dollar

272
00:21:08,667 --> 00:21:12,207
by forcing those companies to back it with U.S. debt.

273
00:21:13,047 --> 00:21:15,947
I told you this at the beginning, guys.

274
00:21:15,947 --> 00:21:21,447
Like in 2014, 15, 16, 17, people mining didn't want Bitcoin.

275
00:21:21,627 --> 00:21:23,867
People mining in Venezuela mostly wanted dollars.

276
00:21:24,247 --> 00:21:24,347
Yeah.

277
00:21:24,687 --> 00:21:26,847
They wanted Bitcoin to sell it for dollars.

278
00:21:27,047 --> 00:21:30,547
And they saw Bitcoin mining as a rent in dollars.

279
00:21:31,007 --> 00:21:34,747
Because Bitcoin mining made you more a month than being a doctor.

280
00:21:36,027 --> 00:21:36,647
That makes sense.

281
00:21:37,987 --> 00:21:44,066
So during this time frame when the government comes in and they start seizing Bitcoin miners

282
00:21:44,066 --> 00:21:46,407
and they start taking those away from people.

283
00:21:47,107 --> 00:21:54,627
We've heard on Twitter that there's possibly a stash of like 600,000 Bitcoin,

284
00:21:54,787 --> 00:21:58,867
660,000 or whatever, supposedly, that the Venezuela government has.

285
00:21:59,047 --> 00:22:00,887
Is that where that came from?

286
00:22:01,027 --> 00:22:05,387
Were they just taking over these operations and running these miners?

287
00:22:05,687 --> 00:22:09,227
Or were they forcing people to give up their private keys?

288
00:22:09,627 --> 00:22:11,647
Or is it even real?

289
00:22:12,566 --> 00:22:14,907
That is an excellent question.

290
00:22:14,907 --> 00:22:24,247
I have an embargo draft that will be soon published about my full point of view on the 600,000 Bitcoin.

291
00:22:24,566 --> 00:22:28,387
The conclusion is that is an overestimated figure.

292
00:22:29,247 --> 00:22:38,207
I am not disputing that there isn't a Bitcoin stash inside of Venezuela or a crypto stash.

293
00:22:38,207 --> 00:22:45,467
it is indeed and you can have it for certain a combination of bitcoin and usdt that is for

294
00:22:45,467 --> 00:22:54,147
certain okay um but it is impossible for it to be 600 000 bitcoin man the hardware that the

295
00:22:54,147 --> 00:23:04,387
venezuelan government seized was uh mostly s7s and s9s okay bitmains s7s and s9s that is very

296
00:23:04,387 --> 00:23:06,167
antiquate Bitcoin mining hardware.

297
00:23:06,987 --> 00:23:08,387
Okay? And after this

298
00:23:08,387 --> 00:23:10,227
the seizure of Bitcoin

299
00:23:10,227 --> 00:23:12,566
mining hardware escalated

300
00:23:12,566 --> 00:23:14,667
in the country, imports

301
00:23:14,667 --> 00:23:16,367
of Bitcoin mining hardware to

302
00:23:16,367 --> 00:23:18,647
Venezuela, tanked.

303
00:23:18,867 --> 00:23:20,547
Right. Okay? Tanked.

304
00:23:20,787 --> 00:23:22,207
Almost nobody

305
00:23:22,207 --> 00:23:24,347
mines nowadays with whatever

306
00:23:24,347 --> 00:23:26,326
mining hash rate is left in Venezuela

307
00:23:26,326 --> 00:23:28,267
with an S19 or

308
00:23:28,267 --> 00:23:30,167
S17 or S15.

309
00:23:30,847 --> 00:23:32,207
None of the like

310
00:23:32,207 --> 00:23:34,347
old gen, mid gen

311
00:23:34,347 --> 00:23:40,967
mining hardware are available at a great scale in Venezuela. It's very old generation hardware,

312
00:23:41,147 --> 00:23:47,887
okay? So take into account that we took, we got to one Zeta hash of like hash rate in Bitcoin,

313
00:23:48,107 --> 00:23:54,407
okay? It is impossible for them to have mined hundreds of thousands of Bitcoin also because

314
00:23:54,407 --> 00:24:01,027
the way the seizure and the halting of mining operations happened in Venezuela was forcefully,

315
00:24:01,027 --> 00:24:04,247
was under an extortion.

316
00:24:05,207 --> 00:24:06,687
It was extortion.

317
00:24:07,066 --> 00:24:09,326
So they disconnected the hardware.

318
00:24:09,887 --> 00:24:11,767
Some of the hardware was destroyed.

319
00:24:12,247 --> 00:24:14,027
Some of the hardware was burned

320
00:24:14,027 --> 00:24:16,547
because you're great at seizing.

321
00:24:16,887 --> 00:24:19,007
Out here killing the golden goose, man.

322
00:24:19,007 --> 00:24:20,467
But you're not great at running Bitcoin miners.

323
00:24:20,947 --> 00:24:22,807
Yeah, just slaying calves.

324
00:24:22,987 --> 00:24:24,347
That is horrific, man.

325
00:24:24,347 --> 00:24:24,627
Okay.

326
00:24:25,207 --> 00:24:25,887
All right.

327
00:24:26,027 --> 00:24:30,566
So that is one way the Venezuelan government,

328
00:24:30,566 --> 00:24:33,066
for sure amassed Bitcoin.

329
00:24:33,307 --> 00:24:36,307
The problem with governments

330
00:24:36,307 --> 00:24:37,927
and socialist governments

331
00:24:37,927 --> 00:24:39,467
is also corruption, man.

332
00:24:39,627 --> 00:24:42,027
So a lot of those Bitcoin mined

333
00:24:42,027 --> 00:24:44,326
were just like stolen, okay?

334
00:24:44,586 --> 00:24:46,807
Were sold via OTCs

335
00:24:46,807 --> 00:24:48,927
to send it to accounts in Switzerland

336
00:24:48,927 --> 00:24:50,326
or we don't know right now.

337
00:24:50,527 --> 00:24:52,367
We will know in some years

338
00:24:52,367 --> 00:24:55,826
because now the US will study all those flows

339
00:24:55,826 --> 00:24:57,607
and all that shit will be,

340
00:24:57,707 --> 00:25:00,007
I believe all that shit will be published, man, okay?

341
00:25:00,007 --> 00:25:02,747
The tools exist to track all of that.

342
00:25:03,147 --> 00:25:06,687
They just have to continue getting the right people and like interview them.

343
00:25:06,907 --> 00:25:10,887
So the other two more points related to the 600,000 Bitcoin.

344
00:25:11,066 --> 00:25:11,247
Okay.

345
00:25:12,787 --> 00:25:20,487
The other thing that they're arguing publicly or like on social media is that potentially

346
00:25:20,487 --> 00:25:24,586
the Venezuelan government swapped some gold for Bitcoin.

347
00:25:25,326 --> 00:25:25,687
Okay.

348
00:25:25,687 --> 00:25:34,867
I think it's like an estimate from seven to eight tons of gold that are missing, okay, out of the central bank's reserves.

349
00:25:36,007 --> 00:25:36,307
All right.

350
00:25:36,707 --> 00:25:43,247
So, Pulse, that was shipped overseas in like 2017, 2018, okay?

351
00:25:43,447 --> 00:25:48,907
We're talking about when Bitcoin hit like between, you know, crossing a thousand dollars, tens of thousands of dollars.

352
00:25:49,487 --> 00:25:52,586
Trump was president in the U.S., right?

353
00:25:52,586 --> 00:25:53,807
Just becoming president.

354
00:25:54,307 --> 00:25:55,487
Sanctions kicking in.

355
00:25:55,687 --> 00:26:00,687
the government is starting to figure out a way to work with crypto

356
00:26:00,687 --> 00:26:06,387
and you're telling me they swapped seven tons of gold for Bitcoin?

357
00:26:07,147 --> 00:26:11,927
Who gives you Bitcoin for seven tons of gold?

358
00:26:12,107 --> 00:26:12,707
Tell me right now.

359
00:26:14,347 --> 00:26:14,987
Interesting.

360
00:26:15,127 --> 00:26:15,467
No, man.

361
00:26:15,847 --> 00:26:18,227
You know, like, that's all bullshit, honestly.

362
00:26:18,227 --> 00:26:27,027
So I don't know where this 600,000 figure of Bitcoin actually started to come from.

363
00:26:27,207 --> 00:26:32,147
I've obviously seen the tweets, the charts, Venezuela, 600,000 Bitcoin, whatever.

364
00:26:33,007 --> 00:26:33,487
No, man.

365
00:26:33,586 --> 00:26:40,387
I mean, the level of incompetence and corruption that the Venezuelan government has had to go through

366
00:26:40,387 --> 00:26:44,607
in relation to cryptocurrency or Bitcoin or whatever,

367
00:26:44,607 --> 00:26:52,427
It's so great that it is extremely hard for me to believe that it is 600,000 Bitcoin, the amount that we have.

368
00:26:52,667 --> 00:26:59,747
Again, I am not ruling out that at some point we amassed or that amount of Bitcoin went through Venezuela.

369
00:27:00,627 --> 00:27:02,467
But it's now elsewhere.

370
00:27:02,787 --> 00:27:11,967
OK, and if there's something left of those Bitcoin, it's also potentially spread it in hundreds and thousands of keys, man.

371
00:27:11,967 --> 00:27:14,747
Or exchanges, binas and stuff.

372
00:27:15,547 --> 00:27:16,067
Yeah.

373
00:27:18,627 --> 00:27:30,107
You, I mean, you speak so, so energetically about Venezuela and Grant and I are both from little farms in Kansas.

374
00:27:30,367 --> 00:27:35,407
And we both have this like we talk about this often, like we have the strong draw to where we came from.

375
00:27:35,407 --> 00:27:47,086
And it's always something that, you know, no matter where you go, you always feel this draw to return. Is going back to Venezuela something that you would ever consider?

376
00:27:47,747 --> 00:28:04,167
Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. Also, because today I'm a father, I want my daughter to live like at least a couple of years in Venezuela. If there's been a good time to turn back, to go back, you know, it may be pretty soon.

377
00:28:04,167 --> 00:28:18,867
OK, so, man, if I can in any way I can funnel all of the network and all of the knowledge that I built through Bitcoin to rebuild Venezuela, I will do it.

378
00:28:19,527 --> 00:28:20,086
I will do my best.

379
00:28:20,086 --> 00:28:33,347
What is the role that Bitcoin could or would play in rebuilding Venezuela if what the government lacked before was the competence to integrate Bitcoin mining into a petroleum-based economy when you have socialists who want to steal everything?

380
00:28:33,727 --> 00:28:39,227
What does the future look like when you don't have that, when you have people like you with an immense amount of expertise?

381
00:28:39,547 --> 00:28:41,607
How does Bitcoin mining reenter the picture?

382
00:28:41,747 --> 00:28:43,127
What does Bitcoin look like in Venezuela?

383
00:28:43,127 --> 00:28:52,847
Yeah, I think it is. I would love for it to be a combination of a Bitcoin national reserve.

384
00:28:53,607 --> 00:28:58,627
OK, right. And so what is a first step to make that happen?

385
00:28:59,287 --> 00:29:01,907
Who would potentially costaridos Bitcoin in Venezuela?

386
00:29:02,747 --> 00:29:04,507
Maybe the Venezuelan central bank.

387
00:29:04,507 --> 00:29:13,086
OK, because you help stabilize the Bolivar if you back the Bolivar some way with a Bitcoin national reserve.

388
00:29:13,127 --> 00:29:17,207
Right. Not only a combination of dollars and euros and other fiat currencies.

389
00:29:17,547 --> 00:29:21,607
It is trying to replicate the El Salvador model in Venezuela.

390
00:29:21,787 --> 00:29:24,907
I would love to see that. OK, to some extent.

391
00:29:25,247 --> 00:29:30,267
To just not have it, just don't have a central bank and just say, look, we're not going to be in the business of money.

392
00:29:30,407 --> 00:29:33,887
We're just going to have Bitcoin and you guys can use whatever you want.

393
00:29:33,887 --> 00:29:42,607
I would love to close the Venezuelan central bank out of, you know, more than 100 years of Venezuelan central banking history.

394
00:29:42,607 --> 00:29:44,787
we've done a terrible job

395
00:29:44,787 --> 00:29:46,267
even before this administration

396
00:29:46,267 --> 00:29:47,207
they're horrible at their job

397
00:29:47,207 --> 00:29:51,147
at protecting the value

398
00:29:51,147 --> 00:29:52,067
of the Bolivar

399
00:29:52,067 --> 00:29:53,447
horrible job

400
00:29:53,447 --> 00:29:56,007
what is the sense of it

401
00:29:56,007 --> 00:29:57,347
none

402
00:29:57,347 --> 00:29:59,967
but right now there has to be

403
00:29:59,967 --> 00:30:01,247
a Venezuela central bank

404
00:30:01,247 --> 00:30:04,086
because we need an agreement with the IMF

405
00:30:04,086 --> 00:30:06,427
we need an agreement with the United States

406
00:30:06,427 --> 00:30:09,247
it is as of today

407
00:30:09,247 --> 00:30:11,287
finally an unsanctioned

408
00:30:11,287 --> 00:30:14,307
sanctioned central bank by the United States.

409
00:30:15,086 --> 00:30:23,527
$500 million worth of oil were sent to the Venezuelan central bank today under the agreement

410
00:30:23,527 --> 00:30:29,747
that the Venezuelan central bank will use that money to buy agricultural products from

411
00:30:29,747 --> 00:30:30,326
the U.S.

412
00:30:30,947 --> 00:30:31,287
Okay.

413
00:30:31,747 --> 00:30:38,527
So first, I would love for eventually see Venezuela have a Bitcoin national reserve.

414
00:30:38,807 --> 00:30:39,067
Okay.

415
00:30:39,887 --> 00:30:41,086
What is needed?

416
00:30:41,287 --> 00:30:44,826
What is needed is the rule of law, man.

417
00:30:44,987 --> 00:30:47,927
Honestly, like don't fuck with people's Bitcoin.

418
00:30:48,107 --> 00:30:49,347
Don't fuck with the exchanges.

419
00:30:49,567 --> 00:30:50,767
Don't go seize them.

420
00:30:51,147 --> 00:30:51,507
Okay.

421
00:30:51,907 --> 00:30:52,967
Lower the taxes.

422
00:30:52,967 --> 00:30:57,207
Who's going to bring you Bitcoin if you tax it at, you know, 16 or whatever percent.

423
00:30:57,727 --> 00:31:01,387
Actually, cryptocurrency transactions are not taxed in Venezuela.

424
00:31:01,647 --> 00:31:10,167
So there is a very robust crypto regulatory framework in Venezuela.

425
00:31:10,167 --> 00:31:14,147
I would argue that it also needs to be diminished.

426
00:31:14,607 --> 00:31:14,927
Okay.

427
00:31:15,567 --> 00:31:18,586
These licenses for Bitcoin mining activity thing.

428
00:31:19,107 --> 00:31:21,447
It just makes it more bureaucratic.

429
00:31:22,047 --> 00:31:22,367
Okay.

430
00:31:23,767 --> 00:31:24,907
Zero taxes.

431
00:31:25,287 --> 00:31:27,347
Zero taxes for overseas companies.

432
00:31:27,527 --> 00:31:27,887
Everything.

433
00:31:28,207 --> 00:31:28,487
I mean.

434
00:31:28,987 --> 00:31:29,947
Now Bitcoin mining.

435
00:31:30,287 --> 00:31:31,267
It's the same discussion.

436
00:31:31,687 --> 00:31:31,967
Okay.

437
00:31:31,967 --> 00:31:38,367
You need to give reassurance of like first give back all the cease mining hardware.

438
00:31:38,367 --> 00:31:42,387
It can be outdated as shit, but whatever you have, give it back.

439
00:31:42,767 --> 00:31:48,607
That will start giving a signal to the international Bitcoin mining investment community.

440
00:31:49,347 --> 00:31:56,326
Bitcoin miners, especially in the US, even Russia, China, whatever, they love talking about Venezuela.

441
00:31:56,687 --> 00:32:04,326
It's obviously a huge stockpile of gas energy, oil energy, hydroelectric energy.

442
00:32:04,326 --> 00:32:13,047
There is megawatts and gigawatts of energy available in Venezuela at the cheapest of prices globally.

443
00:32:13,207 --> 00:32:16,807
Up until now, it's only been just like a high risk market.

444
00:32:17,027 --> 00:32:18,287
So how do you deal with that?

445
00:32:18,567 --> 00:32:21,027
OK, at large scale, you can.

446
00:32:21,227 --> 00:32:32,247
So it's been impossible with the current state of like the rule of law in Venezuela to finance a Texas data, Bitcoin mining data center equivalent inside of Venezuela.

447
00:32:32,247 --> 00:32:33,567
OK, it's just crazy.

448
00:32:33,567 --> 00:32:35,407
so that needs to come

449
00:32:35,407 --> 00:32:36,647
alright

450
00:32:36,647 --> 00:32:38,907
so I would love

451
00:32:38,907 --> 00:32:41,067
man I would love to see

452
00:32:41,067 --> 00:32:43,367
the military

453
00:32:43,367 --> 00:32:45,447
the military national guard

454
00:32:45,447 --> 00:32:47,967
be completely restructured

455
00:32:47,967 --> 00:32:49,267
because there's thousands

456
00:32:49,267 --> 00:32:50,307
of people

457
00:32:50,307 --> 00:32:53,267
you know just connected to the government

458
00:32:53,267 --> 00:32:55,367
I just do not know right now

459
00:32:55,367 --> 00:32:56,747
if that is going to happen

460
00:32:56,747 --> 00:32:59,747
I would love for that to happen

461
00:32:59,747 --> 00:33:01,687
but I think that's going to be

462
00:33:01,687 --> 00:33:06,147
a long work that it's going to take many years for the United States government.

463
00:33:06,326 --> 00:33:09,607
I don't think it's only just a thing of removing Maduro.

464
00:33:09,607 --> 00:33:18,227
It is the first step on the positive direction of a very long marathon.

465
00:33:18,527 --> 00:33:20,607
And we're maybe in the first kilometers.

466
00:33:21,727 --> 00:33:23,847
So what else needs to be done?

467
00:33:24,067 --> 00:33:30,487
So you've, in kind of essence, one could look at this situation and say, well, the head

468
00:33:30,487 --> 00:33:31,447
has been cut off.

469
00:33:31,687 --> 00:33:37,007
of the snake, but obviously it's a Hydra multiple headed Medusa.

470
00:33:37,907 --> 00:33:41,667
And there's so much more beneath the surface.

471
00:33:42,307 --> 00:33:49,447
It's very unclear whether or not the remaining regime will be able to work with the United

472
00:33:49,447 --> 00:33:51,347
States in a productive way.

473
00:33:52,307 --> 00:33:55,887
And so what like what else needs to be done?

474
00:33:57,027 --> 00:33:59,127
Well, right now, the U.S.

475
00:33:59,207 --> 00:34:00,767
Embassy is reopened.

476
00:34:00,767 --> 00:34:09,106
So the CIA and the FBI and the United States will have, you know, day to day operations in Venezuela.

477
00:34:09,407 --> 00:34:10,646
That is a great step.

478
00:34:11,166 --> 00:34:17,487
OK, but we need the help of the United States to like restructure the military guard.

479
00:34:17,787 --> 00:34:22,367
Because like the opposition, the opposition doesn't talk to the military.

480
00:34:22,547 --> 00:34:23,367
And that's the problem.

481
00:34:24,206 --> 00:34:27,606
I think that's the main problem we Venezuelans have.

482
00:34:27,606 --> 00:34:29,887
The opposition is not talking to the military.

483
00:34:30,067 --> 00:34:30,527
I understand.

484
00:34:30,767 --> 00:34:37,126
The military is fully bought and we need the help of the United States to remove the part of the military that is bought.

485
00:34:37,827 --> 00:34:45,086
But I believe there is really nowadays a part of the military that also sees the reality of socialism.

486
00:34:45,767 --> 00:34:49,586
OK. They just want to see another leader there.

487
00:34:49,586 --> 00:34:55,367
But neither Maria Corina Machado nor Edmundo Gonzalez really talk in person to military guards.

488
00:34:55,367 --> 00:35:16,126
And so those are the ones that were, and Gonzalez, he was democratically elected. He's the candidate that's kind of, if we look at the last election results, is the popular winner. And now Delcy Rodriguez is kind of the de facto leader, the remaining regime element. That's kind of the situation, right?

489
00:35:16,126 --> 00:35:21,927
yeah correct because like you remove the president who gets in as president the entering

490
00:35:21,927 --> 00:35:30,867
vice president and so um i look man i still are i still i find it hard to believe maybe i'm just

491
00:35:30,867 --> 00:35:39,387
very um what is it ignorant in special military yeah special military operations on like so

492
00:35:39,387 --> 00:35:43,407
C6 and Delta Force, whoever knows.

493
00:35:43,566 --> 00:35:49,387
But why didn't they take out the five guys at the same time?

494
00:35:50,847 --> 00:35:54,546
Well, they argue that it's because they had to train for months

495
00:35:54,546 --> 00:35:59,527
under a specific location that they knew how it was designed

496
00:35:59,527 --> 00:36:03,706
to capture Maduro and go in 30 minutes, capture Maduro

497
00:36:03,706 --> 00:36:06,186
once he was finally at that specific location

498
00:36:06,186 --> 00:36:09,186
that they had been training for.

499
00:36:09,387 --> 00:36:11,247
to like, right?

500
00:36:11,247 --> 00:36:13,227
Like intervene or whatever.

501
00:36:14,186 --> 00:36:24,953
So I don know I think Maduro was also sold You think he was put up So who do you think sold him The Rodriguez the vice president

502
00:36:25,393 --> 00:36:27,413
Yeah, I mean, that's a great way to get a promotion.

503
00:36:27,833 --> 00:36:30,813
Like if you could just sell your boss and then take his job,

504
00:36:30,953 --> 00:36:34,033
not only do you get rich, you get his job as well.

505
00:36:34,593 --> 00:36:34,773
Yeah.

506
00:36:35,433 --> 00:36:37,973
I mean, I'd do it if I had a boss.

507
00:36:38,413 --> 00:36:41,213
There's basically five families ruling Venezuela.

508
00:36:41,753 --> 00:36:42,033
Okay.

509
00:36:42,033 --> 00:36:42,873
One is done.

510
00:36:43,633 --> 00:36:43,853
Okay.

511
00:36:44,213 --> 00:36:50,573
You need to remove, I think, like two more to solve the military and the police thing and whatever.

512
00:36:51,053 --> 00:36:53,253
And I think that's going to be part of the agreement with the U.S.

513
00:36:53,853 --> 00:36:56,133
So all their heads are going to have to fall, man.

514
00:36:56,973 --> 00:37:04,413
So do you think it'll be one of those kind of like the golden parachute thing where the U.S. is going to pay off those families to get out of there?

515
00:37:04,893 --> 00:37:08,973
Or do you think that they'll violently remove them or just forcefully remove them?

516
00:37:08,973 --> 00:37:24,413
I think it depends on how they interact these next months and weeks, etc. But so far, honestly, for them, for De Rodriguez, honestly, so far, so good, man. We could see De Rodriguez maybe be two years, four years president of Venezuela.

517
00:37:24,413 --> 00:37:39,913
Because you wouldn't say that those four remaining families have a lot of popular support, right? I mean, if you polled the people, clearly they elected, they tried to elect somebody else.

518
00:37:39,913 --> 00:37:47,733
Um, so, um, do you think, I mean, God, I hate to, I have a brother, I have a brother-in-law

519
00:37:47,733 --> 00:37:53,293
that's in the military and the idea of the military going to occupy another country sounds

520
00:37:53,293 --> 00:37:54,453
awful.

521
00:37:55,213 --> 00:38:03,253
Um, but that to me, when I think about this seems like the tried and not very true playbook

522
00:38:03,253 --> 00:38:05,493
of the United States war machine,

523
00:38:05,613 --> 00:38:08,153
which is to come in and occupy,

524
00:38:08,933 --> 00:38:12,493
build bases and spend trillions of dollars and stuff

525
00:38:12,493 --> 00:38:15,093
to install democracy.

526
00:38:16,553 --> 00:38:20,493
I guess, do you think the Venezuelan people

527
00:38:20,493 --> 00:38:23,633
would welcome that,

528
00:38:23,633 --> 00:38:28,753
would welcome that type of bold interdiction

529
00:38:28,753 --> 00:38:32,293
as far as welcoming another country

530
00:38:32,293 --> 00:38:33,373
into their country?

531
00:38:33,673 --> 00:38:36,193
Or do you think that that would lead to war?

532
00:38:36,713 --> 00:38:37,893
We're all sick of war.

533
00:38:38,773 --> 00:38:42,273
Yeah, I think we're sadly and ignorantly

534
00:38:42,273 --> 00:38:47,693
rooting for the results that, you know,

535
00:38:47,973 --> 00:38:50,193
they got on Maduro and everybody was happy.

536
00:38:50,393 --> 00:38:51,953
Now everybody is like, what the fuck?

537
00:38:52,193 --> 00:38:52,893
What's happening?

538
00:38:53,433 --> 00:38:54,493
Okay, that's the reality.

539
00:38:54,813 --> 00:38:57,533
Because like everybody was expecting for,

540
00:38:57,653 --> 00:38:59,853
you know, the U.S. to come in,

541
00:39:00,193 --> 00:39:02,053
remove all these five families

542
00:39:02,053 --> 00:39:06,633
and put Maria Corina Machado and Mundo Gonzalez on like a red carpet.

543
00:39:07,213 --> 00:39:08,693
They're going to come into the country.

544
00:39:08,833 --> 00:39:11,253
They're just going to walk into the capital city.

545
00:39:11,773 --> 00:39:16,593
You know, they're going to close the new Congress.

546
00:39:16,593 --> 00:39:22,473
We know the socialist Congress that the Venezuelan regime has built over the past years.

547
00:39:22,693 --> 00:39:27,413
And now there's a, you know, Democratic Congress and everybody's happy.

548
00:39:27,413 --> 00:39:32,433
You know, so I don't know.

549
00:39:32,653 --> 00:39:40,373
Maybe, maybe there will be other elections and it'll end up being this thing of maybe like Del C against Maria Corina.

550
00:39:41,053 --> 00:39:45,593
OK, but then the elections will be monitored by the U.S.

551
00:39:46,273 --> 00:39:54,593
The government will not be allowed to just use their voting system that they developed that have been selling to other nation states.

552
00:39:54,593 --> 00:40:03,073
okay and it'll be fully audited by the u.s and maybe then finally maria corina machado wins

553
00:40:03,073 --> 00:40:07,873
but until then i don't know how long it's gonna be i don't know if that's six months or two years

554
00:40:07,873 --> 00:40:15,473
or four years but history takes time to unravel man yeah right so maduro's bodyguards all the

555
00:40:15,473 --> 00:40:21,373
ones around him were cuban right and was that an element of the situation that there was an element

556
00:40:21,373 --> 00:40:24,133
of foreign interference or control behind the scenes.

557
00:40:24,133 --> 00:40:26,013
And maybe now that's been removed

558
00:40:26,013 --> 00:40:27,973
so that things will be able to play out

559
00:40:27,973 --> 00:40:30,273
without at least, again,

560
00:40:30,413 --> 00:40:32,093
foreign interference from Cuba or elsewhere.

561
00:40:33,333 --> 00:40:37,693
Yeah, I would really much think that is correct.

562
00:40:38,313 --> 00:40:39,453
Honestly, Osea.

563
00:40:40,113 --> 00:40:42,693
They removed the Cubans from the equation

564
00:40:42,693 --> 00:40:46,713
on the cost of the Venezuelan regime.

565
00:40:47,033 --> 00:40:49,913
So they're like, now they are monitoring them fully,

566
00:40:49,913 --> 00:40:55,913
not the cubans and like you know i think it's also a fact of you know maduro would have been

567
00:40:55,913 --> 00:41:02,853
since the beginning an illegitimate president man an illegitimate president you know personally

568
00:41:02,853 --> 00:41:13,033
being guarded by the cubans man can you give me an idea of what it was like growing up in that kind

569
00:41:13,033 --> 00:41:19,773
of corruption like i mean did you have to deal with this on a i remember i used to work for a

570
00:41:19,773 --> 00:41:27,093
company that was based in Chicago, Illinois. And one of my coworkers had previously worked for a

571
00:41:27,093 --> 00:41:33,753
construction company. And he said every day they would show up to the construction site

572
00:41:33,753 --> 00:41:41,553
and the foreman on the site would have three brown bags of cash. And one brown bag of cash

573
00:41:41,553 --> 00:41:48,993
went to the police and one brown bag of cash went to the inspectors and one brown bag of cash went

574
00:41:48,993 --> 00:41:50,133
to the politicians.

575
00:41:51,513 --> 00:41:54,113
And that's, you know,

576
00:41:54,153 --> 00:41:56,573
Chicago is like notoriously horrific

577
00:41:56,573 --> 00:41:58,773
when it comes to bribery and corruption.

578
00:41:59,333 --> 00:42:01,613
But can you give me an idea of like,

579
00:42:01,793 --> 00:42:04,193
is this something that you saw on a daily basis

580
00:42:04,193 --> 00:42:05,493
that you grew up with

581
00:42:05,493 --> 00:42:07,293
that you just literally thought

582
00:42:07,293 --> 00:42:08,753
was the way the world worked?

583
00:42:09,773 --> 00:42:14,533
Yeah, I mean, it's sad to see this.

584
00:42:14,533 --> 00:42:17,413
It was immensely sad

585
00:42:17,413 --> 00:42:27,873
see in this gradual process of bribing becoming a normal thing okay like a societal effect

586
00:42:27,873 --> 00:42:34,933
right like i'm not able to make my living with what i make whatever and everybody tries to

587
00:42:34,933 --> 00:42:41,073
just like right other people honestly and everything is about a bribe everything is about

588
00:42:41,073 --> 00:42:49,913
charging more of like whatever and uh obviously the police and the military owning a cut of

589
00:42:49,913 --> 00:42:56,233
everything of all the transport of like from you know whatever we ended up producing or whatever

590
00:42:56,233 --> 00:43:03,073
you always have to pay a cut um and if you don't pay the military directly it's it's like always a

591
00:43:03,073 --> 00:43:09,393
cut okay different cuts first you know i think like these guys made it impossible to run like

592
00:43:09,393 --> 00:43:10,893
a company in Venezuela, okay?

593
00:43:10,953 --> 00:43:13,733
If you open up a company and you want to legally operate,

594
00:43:13,873 --> 00:43:18,353
you need like 19 papers, 19 different papers

595
00:43:18,353 --> 00:43:19,953
that the government has to approve you

596
00:43:19,953 --> 00:43:22,473
and that you have to pay on a yearly basis, okay?

597
00:43:23,053 --> 00:43:27,273
You're like, okay, your tax rate ends up being like 30%.

598
00:43:27,273 --> 00:43:31,353
And then the police take 30% from you.

599
00:43:31,973 --> 00:43:36,253
And maybe you get rocked and you lose the other 30%.

600
00:43:36,253 --> 00:43:43,013
So, dude, it's really a very hard process.

601
00:43:43,293 --> 00:43:50,213
But also, I would say just how insecure it becomes.

602
00:43:50,373 --> 00:43:52,053
It was always unsafe.

603
00:43:52,393 --> 00:43:54,153
It was always an unsafe country.

604
00:43:54,153 --> 00:43:58,553
I grew up in this like, what is it?

605
00:43:58,613 --> 00:44:06,633
Almost like nightmare of being potentially kidnapped or robbed or whatever.

606
00:44:06,933 --> 00:44:08,293
I was kidnapped twice.

607
00:44:08,893 --> 00:44:10,953
My parents were kidnapped once.

608
00:44:11,533 --> 00:44:12,713
So it was normal.

609
00:44:13,053 --> 00:44:13,213
Okay.

610
00:44:13,413 --> 00:44:16,373
It was normal.

611
00:44:16,493 --> 00:44:17,233
That's insane.

612
00:44:17,473 --> 00:44:19,413
It's like getting kidnapped is normal.

613
00:44:19,953 --> 00:44:20,093
Yeah.

614
00:44:20,253 --> 00:44:21,273
Medium class.

615
00:44:21,673 --> 00:44:21,933
Yeah.

616
00:44:21,933 --> 00:44:23,013
Medium class family.

617
00:44:23,013 --> 00:44:29,833
It was pretty probable to have like a sibling or a family, close family member that had been kidnapped.

618
00:44:30,193 --> 00:44:31,273
That became normal.

619
00:44:31,673 --> 00:44:31,933
Okay.

620
00:44:32,493 --> 00:44:34,713
And they just take you and hold you for ransom, right?

621
00:44:35,033 --> 00:44:37,853
They hold you for, you know, whatever.

622
00:44:38,153 --> 00:44:39,073
They take your car.

623
00:44:39,633 --> 00:44:43,013
They won $10,000, $40,000 overnight.

624
00:44:43,793 --> 00:44:47,493
It's like how all the family starts asking for money.

625
00:44:48,613 --> 00:44:52,093
And when you say they, is that just private individuals doing this?

626
00:44:52,093 --> 00:44:54,033
was individuals associated with the government

627
00:44:54,033 --> 00:44:56,153
who was carrying out these ransom

628
00:44:56,153 --> 00:44:56,633
schemes.

629
00:44:57,853 --> 00:44:59,813
Okay, so this is how it works.

630
00:44:59,893 --> 00:45:00,553
It's basically

631
00:45:00,553 --> 00:45:03,753
what the government did is

632
00:45:03,753 --> 00:45:05,933
they bribed 2,500

633
00:45:05,933 --> 00:45:08,153
generals or so

634
00:45:08,153 --> 00:45:09,513
in the military.

635
00:45:10,153 --> 00:45:11,733
That's a rough estimate.

636
00:45:11,993 --> 00:45:13,193
That's not like a hard figure.

637
00:45:13,953 --> 00:45:15,553
And then below that,

638
00:45:15,853 --> 00:45:17,973
what they do is just allow them

639
00:45:17,973 --> 00:45:18,773
to rob.

640
00:45:19,713 --> 00:45:21,293
Rob whatever the fuck you want.

641
00:45:21,293 --> 00:45:24,073
whatever you rob, give me a cut.

642
00:45:25,133 --> 00:45:25,413
Okay?

643
00:45:25,853 --> 00:45:27,553
You could pay your base salary.

644
00:45:27,753 --> 00:45:29,113
You're not able to live with that.

645
00:45:29,913 --> 00:45:30,273
Okay?

646
00:45:30,613 --> 00:45:33,653
And get inside the military and the police

647
00:45:33,653 --> 00:45:35,873
people from the favelas.

648
00:45:36,333 --> 00:45:36,593
Okay?

649
00:45:36,693 --> 00:45:39,293
So like burglars, basically.

650
00:45:39,713 --> 00:45:39,873
Right?

651
00:45:40,493 --> 00:45:42,313
Malandros, as we say in Spanish.

652
00:45:42,633 --> 00:45:43,233
Malandros?

653
00:45:43,873 --> 00:45:44,473
Malandros.

654
00:45:45,173 --> 00:45:45,393
So.

655
00:45:47,393 --> 00:45:49,393
After you got kidnapped the first time

656
00:45:49,393 --> 00:45:55,213
and your dad and your mom had to pay to get you ransomed out and then you got kidnapped again do

657
00:45:55,213 --> 00:46:00,093
you think that they were like man this kid he's just really got to learn to keep his head out of

658
00:46:00,093 --> 00:46:05,813
swivel this little guy he's like i don't know he's costing us a lot of money maybe we just let him

659
00:46:05,813 --> 00:46:11,573
have him for a while you know just leave that guy there sorry that was i was trying to i was trying

660
00:46:11,573 --> 00:46:17,753
to make kidnapping into a funny thing and i was struggling to do so you're good man you're good

661
00:46:17,753 --> 00:46:28,453
I mean, I think that for better or worse, the superpower that Venezuelans have had to learn is trying to get humor out of the bad situations.

662
00:46:28,653 --> 00:46:33,453
Because, you know, ironically, it's a good way to try to deal with trauma.

663
00:46:34,053 --> 00:46:34,973
One would think, yeah.

664
00:46:34,973 --> 00:46:40,073
I want to talk about the Venezuelan superpower because you mentioned something earlier that was really fascinating.

665
00:46:40,273 --> 00:46:46,333
You talked about the Venezuelan diaspora, all these refugees around the world as being a strength.

666
00:46:46,333 --> 00:47:02,733
There's like a knowledge network of people distributed around the world that now I suppose a lot of them are like you with a lot of expertise they've acquired and also a foundation of experience knowing the horrors of socialism and just ready to rebuild maybe.

667
00:47:02,913 --> 00:47:10,333
So what does that look like? Is that diaspora going to converge back on Venezuela or is this a network that's going to be wherever they are supporting things?

668
00:47:10,373 --> 00:47:11,093
What does that look like?

669
00:47:12,233 --> 00:47:13,433
Yeah, great question.

670
00:47:13,433 --> 00:47:18,433
I think it's going to take many years. I see what's happened with El Salvador.

671
00:47:18,933 --> 00:47:27,653
And since everything that the Nayib Bukele effect started happening, I think also the Bitcoiners, us on Bitcoin Twitter,

672
00:47:28,293 --> 00:47:34,633
we saw it take at least some years for some Salvadorians to go back to their country, etc.

673
00:47:34,633 --> 00:47:44,813
And I expect the same thing to happen in Venezuela because it also varies depending on which migration wave you're part of.

674
00:47:45,113 --> 00:47:54,893
Because if you're part of the 2014 and pre-2014 migration wave, okay, you are potentially you're now a dad.

675
00:47:55,013 --> 00:47:57,093
You're a mom, okay?

676
00:47:57,093 --> 00:48:06,073
You've established bases and bank accounts and you've helped part of your family maybe migrate and live with you or close to you in the same country.

677
00:48:06,753 --> 00:48:16,993
And so the ones that have already lost their grandfathers and don't have their parents in the country, they're not going to be the first ones to go back, man.

678
00:48:16,993 --> 00:48:25,213
I think it's going to be maybe the ones that are post-pandemic, okay, that had to migrate during the pandemic.

679
00:48:25,213 --> 00:48:30,733
they're potentially still not that established outside of Venezuela

680
00:48:30,733 --> 00:48:34,093
as the ones that have like over a decade since they've migrated.

681
00:48:34,893 --> 00:48:34,973
Okay.

682
00:48:35,633 --> 00:48:42,353
So, but I believe with the opening of Venezuela,

683
00:48:42,973 --> 00:48:50,093
gradual recovery of the rule of law on sanctioning the state oil company,

684
00:48:50,093 --> 00:48:55,053
dollars slowing back legally into the central bank,

685
00:48:55,213 --> 00:49:00,513
the Venezuelan's private banking sector being able to use the dollar as legal tender.

686
00:49:01,033 --> 00:49:06,313
Because like at some point after the sanctions in the U.S. were introduced in 2017,

687
00:49:06,913 --> 00:49:15,893
like in 2020, 2021, most of the transactions in the Venezuelan economy were being done in cash.

688
00:49:16,353 --> 00:49:18,253
U.S. dollars in cash.

689
00:49:18,253 --> 00:49:20,693
okay so there's a ton of

690
00:49:20,693 --> 00:49:23,033
billions of dollars in cash

691
00:49:23,033 --> 00:49:24,353
in Venezuela

692
00:49:24,353 --> 00:49:26,913
that came all from mostly

693
00:49:26,913 --> 00:49:28,393
you know oil sales

694
00:49:28,393 --> 00:49:30,093
narco traffic

695
00:49:30,093 --> 00:49:31,393
remittances

696
00:49:31,393 --> 00:49:34,753
like physical remittances of people

697
00:49:34,753 --> 00:49:36,593
visiting the country bringing cash

698
00:49:36,593 --> 00:49:38,233
digital remittances

699
00:49:38,233 --> 00:49:41,073
so how is that going to work

700
00:49:41,073 --> 00:49:42,893
are they going to

701
00:49:42,893 --> 00:49:44,793
allow the private banking sector

702
00:49:44,793 --> 00:49:46,493
to like finally

703
00:49:46,493 --> 00:49:50,313
get those deposits in dollars

704
00:49:50,313 --> 00:49:53,133
and recapitalize the Venezuelan banking sector?

705
00:49:53,473 --> 00:49:54,453
That's one thing.

706
00:49:54,833 --> 00:49:57,373
Will it reconnect the Venezuelan banking sector

707
00:49:57,373 --> 00:49:58,613
with the rest of the world?

708
00:49:58,613 --> 00:50:03,693
So finally, it's going through Venezuelan companies

709
00:50:03,693 --> 00:50:06,873
or whatever, the remittance flow

710
00:50:06,873 --> 00:50:08,373
and not going through Binance.

711
00:50:10,093 --> 00:50:13,613
So I expect first to see a remote

712
00:50:13,613 --> 00:50:22,973
remote and digital reconnection of Venezuela with that like vast network of more than 8 million

713
00:50:22,973 --> 00:50:29,693
Venezuelans spread it across the globe, the globe, man. Okay. And, and yes, maybe it's also this,

714
00:50:30,153 --> 00:50:34,653
there's many Venezuelans working in multinationals. There's many Venezuelans working in Silicon

715
00:50:34,653 --> 00:50:39,153
Valley. There's many Venezuelans in Israel. There's many Venezuelans in Spain, man. Okay. So

716
00:50:39,153 --> 00:50:48,313
they are the ideal people to also help the company and the industry where they work at

717
00:50:48,313 --> 00:50:51,873
to figure out the way to invest in Venezuela.

718
00:50:52,173 --> 00:50:53,633
I see that as so huge.

719
00:50:53,733 --> 00:50:58,693
I see people looking at Venezuela now as an opportunity, not just Venezuelans,

720
00:50:58,693 --> 00:51:03,073
other people wondering, like, you know, Venezuela used to be immensely rich.

721
00:51:03,153 --> 00:51:05,713
It used to be the gem and the jewel of South America.

722
00:51:05,713 --> 00:51:06,933
And it can be that again.

723
00:51:06,933 --> 00:51:10,433
And you're seeing people wondering, how can I take part in that?

724
00:51:10,553 --> 00:51:13,293
You know, and they're going to look, oh, I know a Venezuelan down the street.

725
00:51:13,373 --> 00:51:14,273
He used to be a judge.

726
00:51:14,353 --> 00:51:18,813
Now he's cleaning dishes at the local restaurant and people with connections on the ground.

727
00:51:18,813 --> 00:51:26,073
And that huge network is going to be such a valuable way to for capital, I think, to find a home and help rebuild, hopefully.

728
00:51:27,913 --> 00:51:29,633
I sure hope so, man.

729
00:51:30,393 --> 00:51:32,313
Honestly, I think there is.

730
00:51:32,313 --> 00:51:36,833
Venezuela's just disconnected from the world.

731
00:51:37,513 --> 00:51:42,133
None of the oil revenues for the past almost,

732
00:51:42,313 --> 00:51:45,213
yeah, almost 10 years since the sanctions

733
00:51:45,213 --> 00:51:47,993
have been really like hitting the economy.

734
00:51:47,993 --> 00:51:50,753
It's been hitting private accounts of the regime.

735
00:51:51,233 --> 00:51:51,333
Okay.

736
00:51:51,933 --> 00:51:54,633
And then they decide or like whatever.

737
00:51:54,793 --> 00:51:55,653
And then they decide.

738
00:51:55,753 --> 00:51:58,813
Maduro still has an 8 billion euro account

739
00:51:58,813 --> 00:51:59,493
and the Vatican.

740
00:51:59,493 --> 00:52:02,333
what's the Vatican going to do with the money

741
00:52:02,333 --> 00:52:04,273
is it going to give it back to

742
00:52:04,273 --> 00:52:04,573
Venezuela

743
00:52:04,573 --> 00:52:08,193
come on man

744
00:52:08,193 --> 00:52:09,053
seems unlikely

745
00:52:09,053 --> 00:52:11,533
that seems unlikely

746
00:52:11,533 --> 00:52:13,673
I like how you paused there

747
00:52:13,673 --> 00:52:15,053
to let us answer this though

748
00:52:15,053 --> 00:52:17,793
you really think that's going to happen

749
00:52:17,793 --> 00:52:19,913
one of the best

750
00:52:19,913 --> 00:52:21,213
one of the best

751
00:52:21,213 --> 00:52:23,873
like online documentary

752
00:52:23,873 --> 00:52:25,713
things I've seen

753
00:52:25,713 --> 00:52:27,293
is this guy

754
00:52:27,293 --> 00:52:34,253
it's called the Y files. I forget the guy's name. Um, but there's this one about, um, the secret

755
00:52:34,253 --> 00:52:39,933
war that the United States ran after world war two. And it was basically world war two ends and

756
00:52:39,933 --> 00:52:45,413
the United States is goes into Germany and they're like, Hey Nazis, you want a job? You're not, you

757
00:52:45,413 --> 00:52:48,933
know, doing Nazi stuff anymore, but would you like to work for us? And they're like, yeah. And they're

758
00:52:48,933 --> 00:52:54,293
like, sweet. The Vatican said that they would be our bank so that we could have a cutout and the

759
00:52:54,293 --> 00:52:59,453
mafia would also like to be a part of this. So we're just going to pay you guys for the next 50

760
00:52:59,453 --> 00:53:05,733
years to blow up buildings and conduct domestic terrorism in order to fight socialism. And I was

761
00:53:05,733 --> 00:53:15,293
like, that's fascinating. And also Catholicism has some really interesting thoughts on banking.

762
00:53:15,893 --> 00:53:21,093
They really get their fingers into a lot of stuff. Good for them. Good for them. Yeah.

763
00:53:21,093 --> 00:53:27,673
uh man i i don't really know what else to talk about here i'm just like it's so fascinating to

764
00:53:27,673 --> 00:53:35,073
learn about like i i think that we've nationalized a lot of industries in the united states like in

765
00:53:35,073 --> 00:53:43,473
2008 um you know the the golden parachutes given to all of the people in wall street

766
00:53:43,473 --> 00:53:48,813
that to me is the nationalization is like hey you're going to get bought out and now you do

767
00:53:48,813 --> 00:53:53,833
whatever we want, the automobile industry as well, the dairy industry, literally the entire

768
00:53:53,833 --> 00:53:59,773
agricultural industry, the energy industry, the airline industry, et cetera. We just don't have

769
00:53:59,773 --> 00:54:07,033
it quite as blatantly out front nationalization as some other countries. But you lived through that

770
00:54:07,033 --> 00:54:14,393
kind of when Majuro truly kind of outright nationalized things and just flat out took stuff.

771
00:54:14,393 --> 00:54:17,533
Was there anything good during that time?

772
00:54:17,533 --> 00:54:20,893
Like, was there anything that was like, oh, things got better?

773
00:54:22,033 --> 00:54:33,860
Or you did mention did you say that you were mining Bitcoin with free electricity Yeah it was basically free It was really basically free Yeah it was really basically free man

774
00:54:35,540 --> 00:54:41,300
Look, I would say out of maybe this is a hard take and a very bad take.

775
00:54:41,580 --> 00:54:41,760
Okay.

776
00:54:41,999 --> 00:54:45,700
But maybe out of everything that they it really wasn't nationalized.

777
00:54:45,700 --> 00:54:47,959
But Chavez bought sent in their bank.

778
00:54:48,260 --> 00:54:48,519
Okay.

779
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:53,740
The private sent in their branch in Venezuela for 800 million dollars.

780
00:54:53,820 --> 00:54:58,440
OK, first a first payment of 400 million dollars.

781
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,100
And then after I don't know how many years, the rest.

782
00:55:02,180 --> 00:55:05,080
That became the Banco de Venezuela.

783
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:13,100
It became the first bank that the state private bank that the Venezuelan state owned.

784
00:55:13,260 --> 00:55:15,180
OK, under the Chavez regime.

785
00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:19,160
Obviously, it's been done many times, but by other regimes in Venezuela.

786
00:55:19,459 --> 00:55:21,760
OK, for 100 years, 60 years.

787
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:26,760
Okay, so, you know, it was his way of doing his own bank, right?

788
00:55:27,380 --> 00:55:34,660
Today, that's the bank that issues the most amount of loans and has the most amount of accounts in Venezuela.

789
00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:43,479
It is estimated that almost all Venezuelan families, like at least one family member, has an account at the Banco de Venezuela.

790
00:55:43,900 --> 00:55:48,920
So really, it was like this weird socialist way of socializing banking.

791
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:50,700
Okay, you're socializing banking.

792
00:55:50,700 --> 00:55:52,800
It's very free to open an account.

793
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,840
If you open your account at the Banco de Venezuela,

794
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,280
that's how you get the subsidies from the government.

795
00:55:59,560 --> 00:55:59,900
Okay.

796
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,120
Okay, all that kind of stuff.

797
00:56:02,540 --> 00:56:06,519
So I would say that out of everything that they put their hand on,

798
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,080
the thing that just like struck me the most

799
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,100
is how they were really able to operate through the bank, man,

800
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:17,880
a way to give, obviously you force people

801
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:19,380
because you destroy the currency.

802
00:56:19,380 --> 00:56:26,740
So you force people to try to eventually get into digital form of money, get them out of cash.

803
00:56:27,499 --> 00:56:42,979
OK, and so that was really interesting how a socialist government and socializing the money printer of the central bank and raping the central bank and using it to your own like social experiment and social and economic benefit.

804
00:56:42,979 --> 00:56:48,560
and having a combination of the control of the central bank

805
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:54,080
plus a publicly owned, like a private bank,

806
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,700
but actually publicly owned by the state, kind of.

807
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:05,499
So they were really able to foster the adoption of bank accounts in Venezuela,

808
00:57:05,499 --> 00:57:08,400
something that none of the private banks had been able to do.

809
00:57:09,939 --> 00:57:10,720
All right.

810
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:14,060
But for the rest, they destroyed the electrical grid.

811
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:16,600
They destroyed the oil production.

812
00:57:17,019 --> 00:57:19,240
They destroyed all the agricultural production.

813
00:57:19,700 --> 00:57:21,080
They stole all the gold.

814
00:57:21,740 --> 00:57:28,400
You know, they owned they own all the coffee, the water, the whatever, the Colton, the Bauxig, the silver.

815
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:29,860
They own the military.

816
00:57:30,479 --> 00:57:33,580
They own the, you know, just everything.

817
00:57:34,019 --> 00:57:35,600
Actually, that brings up a question I had.

818
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:42,740
Because you said that there's this like payment of like whatever, $500 billion or something, I think is what you said, or $500 million.

819
00:57:42,740 --> 00:57:43,640
Yeah, $500 million.

820
00:57:43,780 --> 00:57:49,840
$500 million that came that is like earmarked to buy agricultural products from the United States.

821
00:57:50,140 --> 00:57:52,999
Do they need to buy agricultural products from the United States?

822
00:57:52,999 --> 00:58:02,280
I mean, because there's a massive agricultural capacity in Venezuela, but I assume that they have just ravaged it to the point that you just can't really produce.

823
00:58:02,420 --> 00:58:04,999
You're going to need a couple of years to build up that capacity again.

824
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:18,180
Absolutely. One could argue, one could argue that there is a moral, you know, a moral factor into all this deal. It's basically a trade deal, right?

825
00:58:18,180 --> 00:58:33,540
Yeah, it's just the United States trying to prop up the agricultural prices, which are depressed because they are flooding. I mean, because we subsidize our agriculture industry to a huge degree.

826
00:58:33,660 --> 00:58:34,300
It's a trade deal.

827
00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:37,740
I buy oil from you and you buy these products from me.

828
00:58:37,959 --> 00:58:41,499
That's everything that the Trump administration is trying to do with every single country.

829
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:42,220
He's a deal maker.

830
00:58:42,660 --> 00:58:44,400
Get a trade deal, right?

831
00:58:44,860 --> 00:58:45,640
The deal maker.

832
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:57,740
Part of the deal started being that the Trump administration would control the funds of the oil cells, okay, in like a U.S. bank account.

833
00:58:57,740 --> 00:59:02,740
and give that to, I don't know, technology and infrastructure

834
00:59:02,740 --> 00:59:06,840
to rebuild the electrical infrastructure in Venezuela

835
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,459
and agricultural products and medicine.

836
00:59:09,620 --> 00:59:12,660
So one could argue that to your point,

837
00:59:13,019 --> 00:59:16,560
a part of the deal is because, well, the agricultural part,

838
00:59:17,019 --> 00:59:19,160
Venezuela doesn't have the production to feed

839
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,019
all the people that we need to feed.

840
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:26,040
I don't think that's a huge reason of the deal, man.

841
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,840
Yeah, I mean, 8 million people left, so there's not that many people to feed anymore.

842
00:59:29,939 --> 00:59:30,680
And they're all old people.

843
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:31,360
They don't eat much.

844
00:59:32,260 --> 00:59:37,420
What I need, what I need is John Deere trucks, right?

845
00:59:37,780 --> 00:59:39,140
Pesticides, U.S. pesticides.

846
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:40,660
That's what I need, man.

847
00:59:40,979 --> 00:59:41,459
Right?

848
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:47,040
And I just got to pay my people in Venezuela and start investing in fucking Venezuelan agriculture

849
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:54,920
and remove the military from the camps so that people can freely fucking cultivate and sell.

850
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:55,640
Right?

851
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:57,200
That's what we need, man.

852
00:59:57,439 --> 00:59:59,720
It's still a rule of law thing inside of Venezuela.

853
00:59:59,900 --> 01:00:01,019
But okay, I get it.

854
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:02,560
And I think that's the first step.

855
01:00:03,540 --> 01:00:06,160
And I also believe that, again, initially,

856
01:00:06,519 --> 01:00:09,760
the idea was for the U.S. to control the funds.

857
01:00:09,999 --> 01:00:14,479
The fact that at least now the funds are going through the Venezuelan Central Bank,

858
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:15,800
that is very positive.

859
01:00:15,939 --> 01:00:19,320
Because that means that eventually, just like with Argentina,

860
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,019
we will have more dollars

861
01:00:22,019 --> 01:00:24,300
from exports

862
01:00:24,300 --> 01:00:26,120
to be able to sell them

863
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,080
in the Venezuelan banking system

864
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,400
and gradually open up

865
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,459
and open up the dollar

866
01:00:32,459 --> 01:00:33,939
open up the dollar rate

867
01:00:33,939 --> 01:00:34,580
in Venezuela

868
01:00:34,580 --> 01:00:35,800
it's not controlled anymore

869
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:36,920
the Venezuelan central banks

870
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,180
doesn't decide it any longer

871
01:00:38,180 --> 01:00:39,720
it's a bidding process

872
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,040
it's a supply and demand game

873
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,420
of the banks in the country

874
01:00:44,420 --> 01:00:46,040
bidding for the dollars

875
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:47,860
that the Venezuelan central banks has

876
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:56,120
man so i've learned a lot about you talk about yeah you talk about the remaining military elements

877
01:00:56,120 --> 01:01:02,920
in venezuela being a problem i mean how extensive is that so now you're going to have to venezuela

878
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:10,100
is going to have to enter a stage where you guys are going to have to reckon with um how do we look

879
01:01:10,100 --> 01:01:15,360
at our neighbors who were on the other side and that's a tough thing for a lot of countries to do

880
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:33,560
And how do you see that playing out that what is called transitional justice in Venezuela? How do you see wide scale justice being done? Is there still rancor and animosity towards the people who are on the other side? Or will people be able to come back and pretty much, you know, accept that everybody did something and just go forward?

881
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:50,840
Yeah, look, one of the main things that Chavez did to the military National Guard was the duty of the National Guard in Venezuela before Chavez was to protect civilians.

882
01:01:52,060 --> 01:01:55,760
Chavez changed that to protect the president.

883
01:01:56,620 --> 01:01:59,280
Okay, we need that to change.

884
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,900
we need that to change back

885
01:02:01,900 --> 01:02:04,140
and to be protecting the civilian

886
01:02:04,140 --> 01:02:06,459
how do we do that?

887
01:02:08,019 --> 01:02:09,140
I don't know man

888
01:02:09,140 --> 01:02:10,200
but we need

889
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,560
we need a leader

890
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:13,840
that talks

891
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,880
to the military again

892
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:17,920
because I believe the military

893
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:19,560
will need to be re-educated

894
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:22,499
and the military will also

895
01:02:22,499 --> 01:02:24,680
in itself look for a new leader

896
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:28,320
we can say the temper

897
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:28,820
maybe

898
01:02:28,820 --> 01:02:34,959
elections come again and you know they're transparent and finally the government doesn't

899
01:02:34,959 --> 01:02:41,180
have a way of saying hey we won and maria corina wins or el mundo wins or whoever whichever figure

900
01:02:41,180 --> 01:02:49,400
wins if they're not able to talk to the military which in many cases in latin american presidential

901
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:56,519
history man is what has happened with right-wing governments they're mostly medium class to high

902
01:02:56,519 --> 01:03:03,380
class people that haven't been through poverty like most of the military guards okay and they

903
01:03:03,380 --> 01:03:08,740
don't know how to talk to them and the military guys are not convinced by those guys also the

904
01:03:08,740 --> 01:03:15,019
military in a way the military in a way always needs an enemy man who's their enemy now yeah

905
01:03:15,019 --> 01:03:19,720
yeah because their enemy has just been i mean they didn't really have an enemy but they've been

906
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:24,459
just preying on the populace right just just extracting from the people or was the enemy like

907
01:03:24,459 --> 01:03:25,979
Was there some social?

908
01:03:26,300 --> 01:03:28,620
The enemy is the Chavismo.

909
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,760
Yeah, like there's a capitalist boogeyman.

910
01:03:30,959 --> 01:03:32,260
The enemy is the Chavismo.

911
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:36,260
And I believe that a day will come that the military guards,

912
01:03:36,260 --> 01:03:44,740
the military guards will rise against every single Chavism ideology.

913
01:03:45,459 --> 01:03:51,260
There just hasn't been an opposition leader that talks both to the people and the military.

914
01:03:51,260 --> 01:03:57,479
because in the case of a country like venezuela which are almost the equivalent of north korea

915
01:03:57,479 --> 01:04:00,479
in south america they're different

916
01:04:00,479 --> 01:04:09,140
and i don't know that kind of sums it up for me man you've like painted this incredibly vibrant

917
01:04:09,140 --> 01:04:15,439
and just you have such a depth of knowledge and uh and energy to speak about venezuela

918
01:04:15,439 --> 01:04:21,499
and to talk thoroughly about it, your matriculation through the Bitcoin mining world

919
01:04:21,499 --> 01:04:25,900
and into working with Ledin and then onto the derivatives and stuff.

920
01:04:27,740 --> 01:04:33,280
This is like a masterclass in Venezuelan macro and politics

921
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:36,019
and internal social dynamics and stuff.

922
01:04:37,459 --> 01:04:39,100
I have another question.

923
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:42,780
This is a really practical question for me.

924
01:04:42,780 --> 01:05:04,560
So I have a friend who lives in Cabimas and he broke his ankle. He broke his ankle recently and he had to go to a hospital that was kind of like a shadow hospital. He said that you don't go to the state hospital because everything there is recycled and it's not safe. So he had to go to some just private hospital of some sort. Now he's kind of swimming in medical bills and I want to send him some Bitcoin.

925
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:12,560
So what is the stack that somebody would use to like, what is the wallet to use in Venezuela for somebody Spanish speaking in South America?

926
01:05:12,860 --> 01:05:18,519
How do they then if they get Bitcoin, what will they use to convert that into a usable currency there?

927
01:05:18,620 --> 01:05:21,959
Like, what would you recommend for the stack to get something into Venezuela?

928
01:05:23,820 --> 01:05:29,120
Yeah, I look 90 percent plus of the volume in Venezuela is Binance.

929
01:05:30,519 --> 01:05:32,600
It's Binance and via P2P.

930
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:46,419
So if you were to send, truthfully speaking, if you were to send some Bitcoin to somebody in Minnesota that needs to exchange them to pay for whatever, services, goods, meds, etc.

931
01:05:46,999 --> 01:05:50,600
He's going to need a swap then for USDT on Binance.

932
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:52,340
That's going to be the cheapest way.

933
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:57,499
And then sell the USDT B2B for Bolivars.

934
01:05:57,979 --> 01:05:58,680
That's it.

935
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:05,439
You have to find somebody locally or just somebody he knows who will accept the USDT for the boulevard to get that done.

936
01:06:06,999 --> 01:06:09,560
Or basically open an account on Binance.

937
01:06:09,820 --> 01:06:10,180
Okay.

938
01:06:10,660 --> 01:06:16,979
And receive your Bitcoin on Binance and change the Bitcoin for USDT and the USDT P2P on Binance.

939
01:06:16,979 --> 01:06:22,419
And sometimes for people that haven't dealt with crypto, that's very complicated.

940
01:06:22,419 --> 01:06:26,800
but in the case of when you're talking to a Venezuela

941
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:30,760
there's a high probability that he will be able to reach out to somebody

942
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,760
who can help them to sell the Bitcoin for USDT

943
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:36,540
and the USDT P2P for bullet bars

944
01:06:36,540 --> 01:06:41,240
so he needs to find that local person with expertise to help him get it done

945
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,880
he's an older gentleman and he's very curious

946
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,860
but not in any technical capacity

947
01:06:46,860 --> 01:06:49,200
but he's got the will and wants to learn

948
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:51,479
which I think is the position of a lot of Venezuelans

949
01:06:51,479 --> 01:06:54,060
They want to learn and get ahead.

950
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:58,540
Man, look, to wrap it up on my end,

951
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:03,439
I think that is the real side of the Bitcoin story in Venezuela.

952
01:07:03,959 --> 01:07:08,200
It is millions of Venezuelans finding a lifeline

953
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:13,499
and a parallel system that allowed them to reconnect with their family,

954
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:15,840
to continue making a life,

955
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:21,160
to finally save for the long term in many cases,

956
01:07:21,479 --> 01:07:30,620
OK, and dude, it is that is the real the real power of Bitcoin inside of Venezuela.

957
01:07:30,620 --> 01:07:38,499
It's done. It's done. It's the knowledgeable. You have a knowledgeable society in crypto like in Venezuela.

958
01:07:38,860 --> 01:07:45,320
Honestly, yeah, you it is. It sounds like a much higher general aptitude than the United States.

959
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:51,979
really yeah definitely yeah a hundred percent maybe it doesn't go all the way in some cases

960
01:07:51,979 --> 01:07:58,220
to things like self-custody and hardware wallets and running your own node because you also need

961
01:07:58,220 --> 01:08:03,600
for those things also a little bit more budget man you know honestly like if you don't even have

962
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:09,080
the money if you're not even able to save on a monthly basis how are you going to buy bitcoin

963
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:13,999
to eventually have also enough Bitcoin for it to make sense for you

964
01:08:13,999 --> 01:08:16,840
to buy a treasure on Amazon, okay?

965
01:08:17,020 --> 01:08:19,819
Import it into Venezuela for $250 or whatever.

966
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:21,280
You know what I mean?

967
01:08:21,780 --> 01:08:26,319
But Venezuela is like, they see really Bitcoin and crypto as money.

968
01:08:27,140 --> 01:08:29,800
We know it's even better than our currency.

969
01:08:30,180 --> 01:08:30,780
You know what I mean?

970
01:08:31,540 --> 01:08:36,700
And Venezuelans have become this like payments juggernaut, okay?

971
01:08:36,700 --> 01:08:42,379
And like you are a mental payments freak when you have a small business in Minnesota.

972
01:08:42,580 --> 01:08:43,480
You accept PayPal.

973
01:08:43,940 --> 01:08:45,999
You accept Amazon gift cards.

974
01:08:46,140 --> 01:08:46,980
You accept Bitcoin.

975
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:48,379
You accept Binance Pay.

976
01:08:48,660 --> 01:08:49,720
You accept ZE.

977
01:08:49,879 --> 01:08:51,520
You accept USDT.

978
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:52,919
You accept USDC.

979
01:08:53,060 --> 01:08:54,800
You accept Sallow Dollar.

980
01:08:55,499 --> 01:08:55,740
You know?

981
01:08:56,780 --> 01:08:57,080
Okay.

982
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:05,560
And sometimes you don't have the tool to sell it back to Bolivars because you don't know how to do the P2P

983
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:12,520
or the connection or whatever, but you pay 10 or 20% to move the money around.

984
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:20,840
So I believe that Venezuela is still and will finally explode its potential once again

985
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:27,520
in the Bitcoin and I would say mostly Bitcoin and stable coins experiment that Venezuela is.

986
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:34,660
And I believe we will finally retake a part of the global share of the seamen

987
01:09:34,660 --> 01:09:38,140
In this game theory global game, okay?

988
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:44,260
Venezuela once was a big part of the global hash rate.

989
01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:48,040
At some point, I believe we had more than 50% of global hash rate.

990
01:09:49,220 --> 01:09:52,700
Russia right now is something like that, 15 or 18% or something.

991
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,100
We could beat Russia's next Bitcoin mining competitor.

992
01:09:57,999 --> 01:10:00,180
Man, truly so well said.

993
01:10:00,180 --> 01:10:29,959
You know, like the hope that comes from this military action from removing Maduro, the hope that comes for a once great and still proud nation that has a quarter of its inhabitants are now living outside of the country, but truly embody the spirit that you have, this Venezuelan spirit that wants to come home, that wants to make things better.

994
01:10:30,180 --> 01:10:36,919
When I lived in Columbia, one of the things that I came away with was just being in South America in general.

995
01:10:37,260 --> 01:10:43,640
You can just feel this latent potential that there is something great that could happen.

996
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:57,100
And, you know, the natural resources, the people, the work ethic, the I mean, just favorable weather, favorable geographical conditions.

997
01:10:57,100 --> 01:11:04,300
You know, it makes it actually very hard to conduct military operations in South America because you're so excluded from everybody else.

998
01:11:04,379 --> 01:11:15,060
You're very far away. And so you have the same sort of geographical barrier and safety that the United States has always had, which makes it difficult to to attack the United States domestically.

999
01:11:15,060 --> 01:11:23,300
so um i just want to thank you for taking the time um to give us your time um it's been

1000
01:11:23,300 --> 01:11:28,640
wonderful following you um following you on twitter and seeing the things that you post

1001
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:33,959
and hearing about you know how you came up through the system and what you're doing now

1002
01:11:33,959 --> 01:11:40,940
um and how you have so much energy right now for venezuela and you're so optimistic about things so

1003
01:11:40,940 --> 01:11:45,919
So, yeah, elsultanbitcoin on Twitter is your handle.

1004
01:11:46,399 --> 01:11:49,080
And, dude, just a gangster, man.

1005
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:50,300
Absolute gangster.

1006
01:11:50,540 --> 01:11:57,359
OG of Bitcoin mining and a guy that's really, like, truly building and making change in Bitcoin.

1007
01:11:57,800 --> 01:11:59,060
So, Sultan, man, thanks for your time.

1008
01:11:59,060 --> 01:11:59,959
I was going to say thank you, too.

1009
01:11:59,959 --> 01:12:00,660
We really appreciate it.

1010
01:12:00,660 --> 01:12:01,899
It's so great to hear you talk.

1011
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:04,080
America needs to hear your voice.

1012
01:12:04,180 --> 01:12:04,999
The world does.

1013
01:12:04,999 --> 01:12:09,300
And I just see a bright, bright future for you and the rest of the Venezuelan people.

1014
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:10,560
It fills me with hope to hear you talk.

1015
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:12,200
Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

1016
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:14,640
No, thanks, Lucas, and thank Grant.

1017
01:12:15,779 --> 01:12:20,080
Guys, ultimately, if my family and I had waited for a U.S. intervention

1018
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:23,340
instead of going down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, today we'd be poor.

1019
01:12:24,060 --> 01:12:25,740
Yeah, well said.

1020
01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:30,120
I'm in this shit because Bitcoin saved my family. That's it.

1021
01:12:31,580 --> 01:12:32,340
That's so beautiful.

1022
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:32,819
That's excellent.

1023
01:12:32,940 --> 01:12:33,620
That's so beautiful.

1024
01:12:34,359 --> 01:12:35,520
All right, thanks a lot.

1025
01:12:35,999 --> 01:12:36,480
All right, guys.

1026
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:37,459
I'm going to hit stop.

1027
01:12:37,819 --> 01:12:38,240
I appreciate it.