1 00:00:00,660 --> 00:00:05,560 Hey, okay, so Lucas and I are here again for, we're going to do the second chapter of software, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,020 or software rather, a novel theory on power projection and the national strategic significance 3 00:00:10,020 --> 00:00:15,640 of Bitcoin. That's Jason Lowry's thesis. We have it in PDF, and we have the first chapter, 4 00:00:15,980 --> 00:00:22,180 last conversation, we're doing the second chapter here. The second chapter is purely methodological, 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:28,580 it's an account of the methodology that Lowry uses for his thesis. On Twitter, Lowry said, 6 00:00:28,580 --> 00:00:37,180 hey, you might want to skip that chapter. It's purely formal, purely something he had to do for the thesis requirement he had to talk about the methodology he used. 7 00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:42,360 But I think Lucas and I agree that it's really interesting in and of itself. 8 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:52,700 Because what's really interesting about Lowry's thesis is that it comes from a perspective military theory that we usually don't see. 9 00:00:52,700 --> 00:01:03,900 With Bitcoin, we often see monetary, financial, economic theory used as kind of a jumping off point for hypotheses or claims about Bitcoin. 10 00:01:04,260 --> 00:01:06,360 And Lowry comes from a completely different perspective. 11 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:18,400 And so in this methodology chapter, I think we get kind of a meta perspective of how we could take new angles on any subject matter, but more specifically on Bitcoin. 12 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:46,820 And on that first point, like, I think that's inherently interesting, too. Like, one of the things that's interesting about Bitcoin is it is a jumping off point into other things, like people who become interested in Bitcoin, often Bitcoin is hope and hope is kind of it fosters curiosity, right? Because you begin to look at the world again with with new eyes, and you want to learn about things that the monetary system is no longer this opaque cabal that does things without our knowing or whatever, right? 13 00:01:46,820 --> 00:01:54,080 It becomes we see that this open, transparent protocol makes other aspects of our lives more open and transparent, too. 14 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,740 And I think it does foster curiosity. 15 00:01:56,340 --> 00:01:58,060 And so this chapter, it's methodological. 16 00:01:58,540 --> 00:01:59,900 Maybe it's dry in that sense. 17 00:01:59,900 --> 00:02:11,440 But I think it's indicative of what Bitcoin brings to us as far as a reengagement with things that we can learn about and from whatever angle. 18 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:14,060 And so this is one methodology we could use. 19 00:02:14,060 --> 00:02:20,720 And I'll just lay out the kind of the general summary of that methodology. 20 00:02:20,980 --> 00:02:23,060 And then Lucas and I will talk about it here. 21 00:02:23,580 --> 00:02:28,580 So it's grounded theory methodology, which begins with data instead of theory. 22 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,320 So usually, you know, you could start with a general theory. 23 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,620 And from that general theory, you could deduce a hypothesis and then you could test that hypothesis. 24 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:41,140 For example, you could say, you know, you'd have a theory that Bitcoin is a monetary technology. 25 00:02:41,140 --> 00:02:44,680 and you could deduce hypotheses relating to that about Bitcoin being money. 26 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,760 But that's kind of been problematic because then you're already starting from a particular theoretical perspective. 27 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,140 So grounded theory allows you to work the other way around. 28 00:02:53,220 --> 00:02:58,240 You begin with the data and then you derive or get to a theory from that. 29 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:04,880 So you begin with data, you then organize or code that data into different categories using concepts. 30 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:12,440 And it's kind of a process of increasing abstraction as you create these categories that organize the concepts that you derive from the data. 31 00:03:13,140 --> 00:03:24,940 And as you analyze data according to these concepts and then abstract them into categories, it's also an iterative process where you, once you have concepts, you then go back and get more data and analyze that data. 32 00:03:24,940 --> 00:03:29,500 once you have categories maybe you refine your concepts and then also go back and get more data 33 00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:35,140 and it's kind of iterative until you get to the point where you've sufficiently abstracted your 34 00:03:35,140 --> 00:03:41,160 categories kind of that broadest organizing principle of your analyzing of the data into 35 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:48,180 what are called core categories and from those core categories you generate explanatory you make 36 00:03:48,180 --> 00:03:53,160 them sufficiently explanatory such that a theory emerges from that that's a point called theoretical 37 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:58,460 saturation within the grounded theory methodology. It's the point at which you really 38 00:03:58,460 --> 00:04:04,800 kind of general finding new data and analyzing it doesn't generate any new conceptual insight 39 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:10,640 that would then lead to a new category, you've kind of done enough analyzing of data to get the 40 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:19,400 concepts and categories needed to inductively arrive at a general theory. So how that began 41 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:24,940 And here is Lowry had a kind of a general idea. 42 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,820 He began with a vague question in this kind of that's going to guide you're analyzing the data. 43 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:29,640 You have to begin with something. 44 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:36,240 And the vague question was kind of something like, what are the national security, strategic security implications of Bitcoin? 45 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,500 And then from that, he analyzed the data, generated concepts. 46 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:45,540 From those concepts, again, he created general categories to organize those concepts. 47 00:04:45,540 --> 00:04:50,360 from the general categories, iteratively went back, looked at the data, came up with more concepts, 48 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,900 refined the categories from those categories. There was a process of abstraction to create 49 00:04:55,900 --> 00:05:02,180 kind of core categories that organized all of it. From the core category that he alighted upon 50 00:05:02,180 --> 00:05:09,680 through this methodology, this grounded theory methodology then, was power projection emerged 51 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:15,440 as this central category. And under the central category, there was power projection in Wild 52 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,100 nature, power projection in human society, and power projection in cyberspace. 53 00:05:20,260 --> 00:05:25,360 And then underneath power projection in cyberspace is kind of the theory he generates, which 54 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,880 is that Bitcoin is a form of physical power projection into digital space. 55 00:05:31,340 --> 00:05:36,520 So that's kind of a broad overview of this methodological section and how he kind of 56 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,740 tips his hand that this is the theory that is generated from all of this engagement with 57 00:05:40,740 --> 00:05:46,980 the data, analyzing it, coming up with concepts, organizing those concepts into categories, 58 00:05:47,140 --> 00:05:52,540 arriving at core categories, finding that core category of power projection, and then 59 00:05:52,540 --> 00:05:57,240 the subcategories under it of power projection in nature, human society, cyberspace. 60 00:05:57,820 --> 00:06:02,960 And then again, the theory that is inductively arrived at, or that I guess the theory itself 61 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,680 is inductively arrived at from looking at all this data. 62 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:12,580 And that theory, again, is something like Bitcoin is a form of physical power projection into digital space. 63 00:06:13,020 --> 00:06:13,860 So that's a summary. 64 00:06:14,380 --> 00:06:15,760 Is that kind of what you got from this, Lucas? 65 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:17,740 Yeah, absolutely. 66 00:06:18,580 --> 00:06:33,100 A couple of things that really, I think, stood out to me that clarified, A, the value of this approach just in general, but B, the specific value of this approach for Bitcoin. 67 00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:36,060 Like you mentioned, there's so many jumping off places. 68 00:06:36,420 --> 00:06:40,240 And to quote Larry Lippard, the fix the money, fix the world. 69 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:47,400 Once you understand Bitcoin, you start to see it everywhere and you start to see how it impacts everything. 70 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:54,240 And you go, oh, well, we won't have to fight forever wars because we won't be able to raise infinite money out of nowhere. 71 00:06:54,420 --> 00:06:55,560 So there's a benefit. 72 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:10,180 And then you go, oh, well, companies can actually focus on innovation instead of chasing growth because they won't have to overcome a 12% cost of capital because the money is being inflated away. 73 00:07:11,460 --> 00:07:19,360 And you think, oh, things are going to cost less because there's going to be fewer intermediaries and people in between taking transaction fees. 74 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:27,360 And so specifically for Bitcoin, this interpretive grounded theory approach is absolutely wonderful. 75 00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:40,740 And the interpretive part where you get to bring your own bias, which is something that has always been no-node and poo-pooed when doing research, is actually brilliant. 76 00:07:40,740 --> 00:07:49,140 because you think about what value do you have to bring a new perspective, 77 00:07:49,300 --> 00:07:50,700 a fresh perspective to something. 78 00:07:50,700 --> 00:07:55,820 I think about like you go, well, here's this thing, 79 00:07:56,020 --> 00:07:58,660 and we need to determine the usefulness of it. 80 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:04,700 And let's say this thing is a smooth, rounded stick that's slightly tapered 81 00:08:05,260 --> 00:08:07,320 and has a bit of a bulb on one end. 82 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,720 and one guy goes, oh, that's a baseball bat. 83 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:11,860 I hit home runs with that. 84 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,160 And another guy goes, oh, that's a murder weapon. 85 00:08:14,260 --> 00:08:15,280 I kill people with that. 86 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,100 And another guy goes, well, that's firewood 87 00:08:17,100 --> 00:08:18,780 and I keep my family warm with it. 88 00:08:18,860 --> 00:08:22,400 And you bring a different perspective 89 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,520 based on the experience that you've had. 90 00:08:26,060 --> 00:08:27,000 And when I was in college, 91 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,700 I was involved in a little bit of research, 92 00:08:28,940 --> 00:08:32,460 some economic stuff and some agronomy. 93 00:08:32,460 --> 00:08:40,280 and it this like reading a methodology section should be boring it typically would be boring but 94 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:48,000 to me it just hit me like a light bulb because i realized like just how short-sighted limited and 95 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:55,520 truly potentially dangerous um the hypothesis approach can be and like give you an example 96 00:08:55,520 --> 00:09:02,680 let's take OxyContin and let's study and let's ask the question, does it reduce pain? 97 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,580 Yeah, it does. It does. That's great. It does that. And now we're done with the research and 98 00:09:08,580 --> 00:09:15,000 we've failed to look at the overall body of data, which also shows that it ruins lives. It gets 99 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:23,920 people addicted. It creates havoc throughout a society. Think about Ozempic. Does Ozempic 100 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,420 and weak OV. Does that help you lose weight? Absolutely. It helps you lose weight. That's 101 00:09:28,420 --> 00:09:32,840 great. We've answered that question, but what we haven't considered is there's long-term effects. 102 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,800 It's going to cause muscle wasting and you're going to be probably dependent upon this and, 103 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:42,560 you know, it may change your brain chemistry as well. You know, all the, all these different things. 104 00:09:43,260 --> 00:09:52,300 So to be able to come at a research question with this qualitative approach and to use the benefit 105 00:09:52,300 --> 00:10:01,020 of your life experience as, as bias in order to give you kind of a, and to, to use that introspection 106 00:10:01,020 --> 00:10:06,800 that you have and go, Oh, that makes sense to me. Um, one of the things that I thought when I was 107 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,840 reading this was he talks about like some of the drawbacks of this approach. And one of the 108 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:18,080 drawbacks is that it can kind of be like overwhelming and it can kind of be, um, almost, 109 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,960 you know there's just so much data and you don't it can be frightening is the way that he put it 110 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:29,760 in that you may not know what you're going to find yeah and and you have to go through that 111 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,820 iterative process of putting things into categories and what that made me think of 112 00:10:34,820 --> 00:10:42,060 in my interpretive approach is you know so I've been involved back on the family farm helping out 113 00:10:42,060 --> 00:10:44,740 and trying to kind of clean things and order things up. 114 00:10:44,820 --> 00:10:50,880 And I realized by doing that that the most effective method in order to clean a farm shop 115 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,520 is not to pick this up and put it away. 116 00:10:54,680 --> 00:11:01,180 It's to literally take everything out, put it into piles, and then start refining those piles. 117 00:11:01,180 --> 00:11:06,020 And first you go, okay, this is air equipment. 118 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,380 And then this is, here's stuff that you beat stuff with. 119 00:11:10,380 --> 00:11:14,800 these are hammered and then here's stuff that are wrenches and then you that's interesting 120 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:20,120 that's like a material literal example of the methodology like literally the data is the piece 121 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:26,540 the object and then the concepts are you kind of understand the you subjectively describe the tool 122 00:11:26,540 --> 00:11:40,853 the item to yourself and then you group those according to that and through process of abstraction you come to categories about where you going to store things and stuff yeah well and that the other part is that it not only do you continue to refine it where you like okay these are wrenches 123 00:11:41,113 --> 00:11:43,973 And then you go, you know, these are open-ended wrenches. 124 00:11:44,113 --> 00:11:45,193 These are closed-ended wrenches. 125 00:11:45,193 --> 00:11:46,253 And here's your metrics. 126 00:11:46,253 --> 00:11:47,233 And here's your standards. 127 00:11:47,233 --> 00:11:48,374 And here's your big ones. 128 00:11:48,453 --> 00:11:49,453 And you're a little – you got all that. 129 00:11:49,453 --> 00:11:55,533 But then you also – you go, well, where does it make most sense for me to have these? 130 00:11:55,913 --> 00:11:57,593 Like is it on the east wall? 131 00:11:57,673 --> 00:11:58,633 Is it on the back wall? 132 00:11:58,633 --> 00:12:06,713 you know this air equipment like why would i ever keep my impact wrenches on the opposite side of 133 00:12:06,713 --> 00:12:10,374 the shop as the air compressor that doesn't make sense because i'm gonna have to walk across the 134 00:12:10,374 --> 00:12:19,573 shop and so the answer reveals itself by ordering the data yeah and and there's so much value in 135 00:12:19,573 --> 00:12:26,833 that right right um to be able to look at this like the way that he did which is to which is to 136 00:12:26,833 --> 00:12:32,333 come at it with just, here's my bias. You know, I'm a, I'm a guy that's interested in power 137 00:12:32,333 --> 00:12:39,033 projection and, um, securing resources because I'm a soldier. Um, and this is my charge. So 138 00:12:39,033 --> 00:12:43,653 if I come at it from that perspective and I start ordering this data, what happens? And 139 00:12:43,653 --> 00:12:48,213 right. Yeah. It turns out that he comes up with a, you know, this novel theory. 140 00:12:48,213 --> 00:12:52,913 And the thing is like, we don't, to kind of get the, like, I don't know that the jest 141 00:12:52,913 --> 00:12:57,913 to alter the theory and use it in our lives to get like the motivational force behind this. 142 00:12:57,973 --> 00:13:02,073 You don't need to sit down and do a formal thesis to apply a methodology like this. 143 00:13:02,073 --> 00:13:06,513 I mean, as you've described, you can even in ordering the I mean, we kind of implicitly 144 00:13:06,513 --> 00:13:08,753 do it because it's a natural way of operating in the world. 145 00:13:09,093 --> 00:13:13,173 If you're intelligent, you take the data, you don't pre commit to some theoretical framework 146 00:13:13,173 --> 00:13:17,773 about it, that all of the tools or items are going to find in this garage or garbage, you're 147 00:13:17,773 --> 00:13:22,033 going to say, I'm going to look at each of the things and then kind of, as I look at 148 00:13:22,033 --> 00:13:25,573 them. I'm going to make subjective assessments about them, put them in the piles, and then refine 149 00:13:25,573 --> 00:13:30,573 my piles. So it's like something we do naturally. And it's good to see it stated formally as a 150 00:13:30,573 --> 00:13:37,473 methodology. So we remind ourselves that in this type of qualitative endeavor, you do derive a 151 00:13:37,473 --> 00:13:43,833 theory that has some sort of value, even if it's not purely objective. There's a quote in here from 152 00:13:43,833 --> 00:13:48,693 a textbook dealing with grounded theory methodology. And it kind of gets back to first 153 00:13:48,693 --> 00:13:53,233 principles, I'll just read it because I think it's good, that noting that when you're dealing 154 00:13:53,233 --> 00:13:59,533 with qualitative data, you're only ever going to have that type of subjectivity involved, 155 00:13:59,653 --> 00:14:03,453 as opposed to quantitative data. And so this is from Corbin and Strauss, 156 00:14:03,793 --> 00:14:09,753 data collection analysis have traditionally called for objectivity. Today, it is acknowledged that 157 00:14:09,753 --> 00:14:15,533 objectivity, as it is traditionally defined in research, can't be applied to qualitative research. 158 00:14:15,533 --> 00:14:21,273 The reason is that qualitative researchers interface with participants and the data. 159 00:14:21,713 --> 00:14:30,293 They bring with them their perspectives, training, knowledge, assumptions, and biases, which in turn influence how they interact with participants and interpret data. 160 00:14:30,773 --> 00:14:39,593 Instead of objectivity, qualitative researchers aim for sensitivity or the ability to carefully listen and respect both participants and the data they provide. 161 00:14:39,593 --> 00:15:09,573 And so I think this is, I mean, you mentioned this, like, we're each going to come to any new phenomena, take Bitcoin with our own biases and perspectives. And what's liberating about considering from grounded theory methodology, or kind of the principles behind it is that you don't, that's, there's nothing wrong with that. You don't have to say, okay, abandon all of those now hit the textbooks on Austrian economic theory, so I can learn what Bitcoin is, you can encounter it naively with your own naked eyes, bring to the table your own prejudices. 162 00:15:09,593 --> 00:15:13,933 assumptions, biases, and try to understand it. In that endeavor, it's obviously going to be 163 00:15:13,933 --> 00:15:19,453 helpful to look at what people have said about it, look at other perspectives, but it remains 164 00:15:19,453 --> 00:15:27,173 to the case that I do think that it's liberating and we shouldn't be ashamed to come at Bitcoin and 165 00:15:27,173 --> 00:15:32,753 try to understand it from the perspectives that we bring to it and that that's going to lead to 166 00:15:33,593 --> 00:15:39,133 Bitcoin and art, Bitcoin and football, Bitcoin and this, Bitcoin and that, and that that's going to 167 00:15:39,133 --> 00:15:45,353 be really cool to see that explosion of people understanding this thing from whatever bias, 168 00:15:45,553 --> 00:15:50,673 prejudice perspective they bring to the table. Yeah. And it gets stronger the more you approach 169 00:15:50,673 --> 00:15:56,773 it with different researchers. So you take the hypothesis approach and what you do is you come 170 00:15:56,773 --> 00:16:02,193 up with a result that is according to the scientific method, not false. You know, the 171 00:16:02,193 --> 00:16:07,333 scientific method, you can either prove things to be false or not false. They're, they're never not, 172 00:16:07,333 --> 00:16:11,533 They're never true, but they can just be not proven false yet. 173 00:16:12,193 --> 00:16:21,793 And if you have more and more researchers that attempt to replicate that, the best that they can ever do is agree that it is not false. 174 00:16:22,113 --> 00:16:28,913 But if you take this approach and you have more and more people come at it with their own personal biases, 175 00:16:28,913 --> 00:16:36,373 and they are approaching it with different facets and they are coming to, you know, 176 00:16:36,413 --> 00:16:40,153 they're ordering the data and they're looking at it from their perspective 177 00:16:40,153 --> 00:16:45,993 and they're coming to their conclusion because it's the data ordering itself that gives the conclusion. 178 00:16:46,913 --> 00:16:53,873 Then what you end up with is a result that instead of the best you can do is say that it's not false, 179 00:16:53,873 --> 00:16:55,733 you can say it's more true. 180 00:16:56,073 --> 00:16:57,673 It's true from this perspective. 181 00:16:57,673 --> 00:17:22,133 You know, it's true from the soldier's perspective. It's true from the financier's perspective. It's true from the libertarian perspective. It's true from the individual autonomy perspective. It's true from all of these different perspectives. And the more we bring bias to it and the more varied those biases are, the more true the result that we end up with instead of just reaffirming that something is not false. 182 00:17:22,133 --> 00:17:44,934 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we are constrained in doing that. We bring our biases perspectives to the table, but we are constrained by logic and we're constrained by, I mean, other people are going to have to be able to understand and accept our subjective evaluation as carrying some truth for them if they're going to also accept the theory that we deduce from the thing. 183 00:17:44,934 --> 00:18:03,733 I mean, if you say Bitcoin is a lizard and you have no logical reason to back that up, obviously it's silly. But the investigative, open-eyed attitude you bring to it is what matters. And we will get new perspectives and hopefully assess some of those as, like you say, more true than others. 184 00:18:03,733 --> 00:18:21,733 And Lowry notes that in the lessons learned at the end of it, he notes that one of the things that this approach requires is there's a specific character in the investigator that is required to undertake grounded methodology research in relation to some subject matter. 185 00:18:21,733 --> 00:18:35,853 It takes a humanistic bent, kind of creativity and imagination, but with a strong sense of logic, detail oriented, got to be able to see the variation in the data to be able to kind of derive the concepts and then group things in categories. 186 00:18:35,853 --> 00:18:43,813 and a willingness to take risks and kind of live with the ambiguity you're always going to have when you do any sort of qualitative investigative endeavor. 187 00:18:44,174 --> 00:18:54,153 That especially is kind of drawing from lots of data and you're tasked again with creating the theoretical framework instead of relying on it like a crutch. 188 00:18:54,153 --> 00:18:59,513 I think a really interesting part about that is he notes it takes a humanistic bent. 189 00:18:59,513 --> 00:19:08,914 And, you know, people can maybe sometimes be put off from something like Bitcoin because they think, oh, man, now I got to learn computer code to understand this. 190 00:19:09,454 --> 00:19:10,934 Or, oh, man, this is finance. 191 00:19:10,973 --> 00:19:12,153 I'm not a numbers person. 192 00:19:12,694 --> 00:19:21,174 But to note that, you know, those are important skills that a person could have to tell us something interesting about what Bitcoin is. 193 00:19:21,613 --> 00:19:26,373 But that doesn't exhaust the field of people who have something to say to us about Bitcoin. 194 00:19:26,373 --> 00:19:33,233 humanistic people, artists, philosophers, sociologists, military theorists, everybody who 195 00:19:33,233 --> 00:19:43,353 comes from a camp that is more based in the humanities than programming or financial theory, 196 00:19:43,493 --> 00:19:48,493 banking or whatever. Those people also have something valuable to tell us. And I like that 197 00:19:48,493 --> 00:19:55,493 thought that it engages more people with interacting with Bitcoin in an intellectual way or could 198 00:19:55,493 --> 00:20:01,593 engage more people to engage with Bitcoin in an intellectual way rather than just number go up or 199 00:20:01,593 --> 00:20:07,033 something like that. Yeah. And I'm going to say something that goes along the lines of that 200 00:20:07,033 --> 00:20:12,513 stoner dorm room approach that we were talking about is such kind of the fun part of this, but 201 00:20:12,513 --> 00:20:19,073 it makes me think of beauty. It makes me think of Jordan Peterson's definition of what beauty is. 202 00:20:19,073 --> 00:20:22,973 And beauty is that which we all agree is beautiful. 203 00:20:23,674 --> 00:20:29,993 You know, there's a reason why this piece hangs in the Louvre and this piece does not. 204 00:20:30,113 --> 00:20:39,473 There's a reason why these types of characteristics are commonly viewed as beautiful amongst the population. 205 00:20:40,033 --> 00:20:47,414 And it's because everyone bringing their own personal bias to it is still drawn to it in a certain way. 206 00:20:47,414 --> 00:20:55,613 and Bitcoin is something that it truly does represent something beautiful. 207 00:20:55,613 --> 00:21:00,253 If you look at the code, it is beautiful in that it's incredibly simple 208 00:21:00,253 --> 00:21:08,293 and it addresses the problem and it does it in a manner that is so innovative 209 00:21:08,293 --> 00:21:14,193 and it draws this beautiful line between the physical and the digital world 210 00:21:14,193 --> 00:21:17,893 and it marries them together in a way that could never be done. 211 00:21:17,893 --> 00:21:22,113 And then the way that it was conceived, you know, 212 00:21:22,253 --> 00:21:24,333 the Immaculate Conception was beautiful, 213 00:21:24,493 --> 00:21:28,674 where it was released into the world and it's decentralized and it's open for all. 214 00:21:29,013 --> 00:21:32,113 And what we see it do to people that adopt it, 215 00:21:32,213 --> 00:21:35,853 you see the people on Bitcoin Beach that were giving haircuts 216 00:21:35,853 --> 00:21:39,533 and taking payment in Bitcoin that are now millionaires. 217 00:21:40,873 --> 00:21:43,553 How it changes people's lives is beautiful. 218 00:21:43,553 --> 00:21:46,914 how it has united people. 219 00:21:47,373 --> 00:21:48,674 We talk about this. 220 00:21:48,914 --> 00:21:50,493 There is no more. 221 00:21:52,073 --> 00:21:56,174 We've been stuck in this hellhole of diversity, inclusion, and equity. 222 00:21:56,953 --> 00:22:02,373 I like how I think it's Elon that calls it that, D-I-E, die instead of D-E-I. 223 00:22:02,493 --> 00:22:10,313 But we've been stuck in this just toilet bowl of these words that mean absolutely nothing 224 00:22:10,313 --> 00:22:13,053 and truly represent racism and discrimination. 225 00:22:13,553 --> 00:22:29,373 But when you look across the landscape of people involved in Bitcoin, there is absolutely no more diverse, inclusive or equitable group of people in the entire world than people that have seen Bitcoin for the beauty that it is and chosen to adopt it in their own lives. 226 00:22:29,493 --> 00:22:36,233 I mean, we don't even I don't think need to prejudge DEI as you're right. 227 00:22:36,593 --> 00:22:40,914 I just throw that in there because I want to say that like this would be interesting. 228 00:22:40,914 --> 00:23:01,674 Like you can judge DEI by saying, okay, use that as a framework, as a vague intuition, go and look at the data of Bitcoin, see what concepts from DEI you can apply to the data you're analyzing relating to Bitcoin, the nature of this thing, and then what categories emerge from that. 229 00:23:01,674 --> 00:23:03,513 and if it's a core category. 230 00:23:03,513 --> 00:23:25,747 And then let people who are so inclined see if they come at a new insight relating to when you look at a decentralized race protocol that is equally available to somebody in Nigeria and across Venezuela in the United States anybody can get a banking account 231 00:23:25,967 --> 00:23:33,067 Or even without prejudging it as financial in nature, what does it mean that there's a proof-of-work protocol behind which everybody can shield their information? 232 00:23:33,067 --> 00:23:46,027 You know, what does somebody who comes in with the perspective of a committed DEI person, what will change about their ideology? Or maybe even, I mean, being open-minded myself, will they bring something to Bitcoin? I don't know. It would be interesting. 233 00:23:46,027 --> 00:24:07,267 I would even, skeptical of some DEI things, I would say it would be interesting for a person who's committed in that way to bring their value to the table and honestly try to do data analysis, coding, conceptual refinement, category creation, and see if they can say something interesting about Bitcoin or about the values that they brought in to assess Bitcoin. 234 00:24:07,267 --> 00:24:22,807 Yeah. I mean, what what other thing unites drug dealers and senators and artists and engineers and criminals and criminals? But hey, I'm being redundant. Yeah, 100 percent. 235 00:24:22,807 --> 00:24:28,207 But yeah, I mean, what other thing unites people like that? 236 00:24:28,367 --> 00:24:30,007 I mean, it's like soccer. 237 00:24:30,587 --> 00:24:37,827 It's like the global sport, except it's the global liberator. 238 00:24:40,047 --> 00:24:43,067 And also perhaps the global protector. 239 00:24:44,147 --> 00:24:47,747 One of the things that I've been thinking about since we had our last conversation was, 240 00:24:47,747 --> 00:24:53,367 you know and he obviously mentions this but just trying to put this into my own framework was 241 00:24:53,367 --> 00:25:00,487 I brought up how I'm viewing this in terms of Bitcoin is the first live money that we've ever 242 00:25:00,487 --> 00:25:08,227 had everything else is simply dead money that is potential energy waiting to be released and 243 00:25:08,227 --> 00:25:15,227 the way that it is released can be by purchasing a weapon that is turned into kinetic energy the 244 00:25:15,227 --> 00:25:21,187 The way that it's released can be by bribing someone in order to do something that you want, 245 00:25:21,407 --> 00:25:25,967 by paying someone to protect or harm in your name. 246 00:25:27,187 --> 00:25:31,967 But the thought that I had was just that dead money kills. 247 00:25:31,967 --> 00:25:42,247 Like the only way for dead money to inflict power is to do something that is destructive to society. 248 00:25:42,247 --> 00:25:47,187 It can be a bomb in order to try to claim more resources. 249 00:25:47,567 --> 00:25:51,087 It can be a bribe in order to try and get a back around on something. 250 00:25:51,847 --> 00:26:00,407 But what the crypto, what the cyberspace battle of power projection does is it uses live energy. 251 00:26:01,007 --> 00:26:05,247 And there's no innocent bystanders. 252 00:26:06,107 --> 00:26:07,247 There's no casualties. 253 00:26:07,247 --> 00:26:15,827 casualties. It's merely a back and forth, a push and pull where the superiority transfers to whoever 254 00:26:15,827 --> 00:26:22,487 can display the most power in a competition that is not just harmless to the participants, 255 00:26:23,267 --> 00:26:27,887 but instead of being destructive, it is accretive because the more power that they are able to 256 00:26:27,887 --> 00:26:32,007 project, the better that they are able to serve their society and the people around. 257 00:26:32,007 --> 00:26:37,987 Yeah, yeah. So, no, that definitely goes to the heart of, can you hear me? 258 00:26:38,307 --> 00:26:42,607 Yeah, I was just going to say, I want to make shirts that say dead money kills. 259 00:26:43,367 --> 00:26:47,047 I mean, because it's been running through my mind, it's just dead money kills. 260 00:26:47,407 --> 00:26:47,987 Yeah, yeah. 261 00:26:48,247 --> 00:26:51,447 You know, and live money gives life. 262 00:26:51,727 --> 00:26:53,747 Dead money is after your brains. I mean, it's a zombie. 263 00:26:54,247 --> 00:26:58,707 But yeah, I mean, so that's obviously, you know, that's a good kind of, 264 00:26:59,167 --> 00:27:01,567 that is very consistent with Lowry's thesis. 265 00:27:01,567 --> 00:27:11,447 And so it comes at it from a theoretical framework that he is kind of establishing here, power projection and the physical power that Bitcoin represents in cyberspace. 266 00:27:11,447 --> 00:27:37,167 I'm curious, Lucas, you as a person, if you could strip away your preconceived theoretical knowledge of Bitcoin and arrive at it now, naive, as a child, innocent, but still bringing all of your world, all of your life experience to the table, the jobs you've had, the rural background you've lived, bringing all those things to the table. 267 00:27:37,167 --> 00:27:49,587 Can you put yourself in those shoes and come at Bitcoin again and describe what it is without recourse to military theory, banking theory, like monetary economic theory? 268 00:27:49,747 --> 00:27:51,147 What is it to a person who is you? 269 00:27:51,367 --> 00:27:53,467 Yeah, that's a what a great question. 270 00:27:53,807 --> 00:27:57,367 And how like how do you even come at that and try to leave those things behind? 271 00:27:57,467 --> 00:28:03,207 Because I know, you know, like Saylor Saylor always says, you know, Bitcoin is on a need to know basis. 272 00:28:03,207 --> 00:28:05,867 Like you you'll know when you need to know. 273 00:28:05,867 --> 00:28:08,947 and I think for me 274 00:28:08,947 --> 00:28:11,587 for me it was 275 00:28:11,587 --> 00:28:15,187 that realization that oh this is something that works 276 00:28:15,187 --> 00:28:18,987 like I think about this all the time and I write about this too 277 00:28:18,987 --> 00:28:21,707 I was a financial advisor 278 00:28:21,707 --> 00:28:24,607 who bought Barnes & Noble 279 00:28:24,607 --> 00:28:27,227 instead of Amazon and I looked it up last night 280 00:28:27,227 --> 00:28:30,967 the $2,500 that I put into Barnes & Noble 281 00:28:30,967 --> 00:28:33,587 that went to like nothing would be worth like 282 00:28:33,587 --> 00:28:34,947 $25 million now 283 00:28:34,947 --> 00:28:36,907 if I had put it into Amazon. 284 00:28:37,347 --> 00:28:41,327 And I went to go buy Google when it IPO'd, 285 00:28:41,407 --> 00:28:42,827 but I wasn't able to make the purchase 286 00:28:42,827 --> 00:28:46,867 because the only person that I could find to sell it to me 287 00:28:46,867 --> 00:28:49,347 was a guy that was going to charge me $300 288 00:28:49,347 --> 00:28:52,587 out of the $800 that I had for a commission. 289 00:28:53,407 --> 00:28:56,647 And I didn't trust E-Trade because it had just come out. 290 00:28:57,587 --> 00:29:00,407 And so I had this experience of, 291 00:29:00,767 --> 00:29:03,647 even though I was educated, 292 00:29:03,647 --> 00:29:10,667 and I was credentialed in that area that I kept getting the things wrong. 293 00:29:11,687 --> 00:29:16,607 And the only thing that got me there was when I bought some Bitcoin, 294 00:29:16,747 --> 00:29:20,487 I got lucky and I happened to buy it like right when it was in a bull run. 295 00:29:20,847 --> 00:29:25,007 And it went way up like in a week and I freaked out. 296 00:29:25,127 --> 00:29:26,027 I didn't know what it was. 297 00:29:26,087 --> 00:29:27,347 I still didn't understand it. 298 00:29:27,347 --> 00:29:30,367 And so I sold it just to make sure I could get my money out. 299 00:29:30,827 --> 00:29:33,427 And of course, it never went back to that level. 300 00:29:33,647 --> 00:29:39,867 I was never able to buy back in. Um, but I mean, can, can I even come out? And I don't think so. 301 00:29:39,887 --> 00:29:44,547 And the, and the reason I, the reason I don't think so is just because how many people have 302 00:29:44,547 --> 00:29:49,527 you tried to orange pill and how, like, what's your hit rate? You know, like mine's probably, 303 00:29:49,887 --> 00:30:01,307 mine's probably 3% maybe if that, you know, and, uh, and of that 3%, I wouldn't say that I've 304 00:30:01,307 --> 00:30:07,407 actually orange-pilled anybody. I was just able to trade on my reputation and their trust in me 305 00:30:07,407 --> 00:30:16,127 and get them to take this step for themselves. And they just see, oh, number go up. And it takes, 306 00:30:17,507 --> 00:30:21,587 I don't, I mean, I don't, and I could still, you know, you could break it down into all the 307 00:30:21,587 --> 00:30:27,287 different categories. Like here's how it serves the four purposes of money and here's the 10 308 00:30:27,287 --> 00:30:33,487 characteristics and you could, you could do that, but why would you like, how would you ever have 309 00:30:33,487 --> 00:30:40,687 that curiosity unless you had a need to know? And that, that, you know, that need to know for most 310 00:30:40,687 --> 00:30:46,107 people is when they're in the situation like Saylor describes, which is, it was life or death 311 00:30:46,107 --> 00:30:52,147 for that company. And they needed to know like, what, what can we do in order to save this company? 312 00:30:52,147 --> 00:30:57,667 It wasn't something that they were doing as like, hey, how do we just get better a little bit? 313 00:30:57,747 --> 00:30:58,987 It was like, hey, we're going to die. 314 00:31:00,447 --> 00:31:02,807 You know, and we're looking at that right now. 315 00:31:02,907 --> 00:31:07,067 Like that's, you know, we're watching the, I think the debt just went over 36 trillion. 316 00:31:07,627 --> 00:31:09,327 And it's, who knows? 317 00:31:09,387 --> 00:31:13,507 I don't understand why, but maybe 36 trillion seems to be kind of the magic number. 318 00:31:13,607 --> 00:31:18,727 Nobody cared when it was 27 or 22 or 33, but all of a sudden 36. 319 00:31:18,727 --> 00:31:25,887 And we've got a, you know, we've got the Bitcoin Act bill and we've got an entire cabinet and president that are pro crypto. 320 00:31:26,287 --> 00:31:30,027 And yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, shit just got real. 321 00:31:30,707 --> 00:31:34,567 So maybe maybe we should look into what the significance of the number 36 is. 322 00:31:34,567 --> 00:31:42,647 But there's a Kabbalistic significance we can esoterically derive as like if time is a topology and not linear, 323 00:31:42,647 --> 00:31:47,207 then from the future a message is being sent backwards in time through 324 00:31:47,207 --> 00:31:49,747 Kabbalistic significance of numbers. 325 00:31:50,067 --> 00:31:51,907 I'm reading Zeno systems right now. 326 00:31:53,807 --> 00:31:55,347 It's definitely a trip. 327 00:31:56,267 --> 00:31:58,867 But I would still don't feel bad like that. 328 00:31:58,887 --> 00:32:00,627 You bought Barnes and Noble instead of Amazon. 329 00:32:00,947 --> 00:32:03,887 I bought booze and books instead of either of those things. 330 00:32:03,887 --> 00:32:06,987 And I don't know that my investment has paid off except for, 331 00:32:06,987 --> 00:32:11,967 except for kind of subjectively as something that I invested in. 332 00:32:11,967 --> 00:32:15,127 And here's how, how, how, how prescient is this? 333 00:32:15,567 --> 00:32:17,727 36 is the atomic number of Krypton. 334 00:32:18,267 --> 00:32:19,067 There you go. 335 00:32:19,167 --> 00:32:23,807 Again, these things, these things don't, there is significant numbers. 336 00:32:24,087 --> 00:32:24,667 It's all preordained. 337 00:32:24,847 --> 00:32:25,047 Yeah. 338 00:32:25,047 --> 00:32:26,327 It's the future speaking to us. 339 00:32:26,667 --> 00:32:26,967 So, yeah. 340 00:32:27,307 --> 00:32:27,707 Yeah. 341 00:32:27,707 --> 00:32:28,387 So I don't know. 342 00:32:28,427 --> 00:32:33,867 I don't think I could, I genuinely don't think that I could come at Bitcoin from any way other 343 00:32:33,867 --> 00:32:34,587 than I did. 344 00:32:35,447 --> 00:32:36,527 But what about you? 345 00:32:36,527 --> 00:32:41,667 Is there, is there a way that you, I mean, you and you and I, like, this is a great example. 346 00:32:41,667 --> 00:32:44,727 you and I came at Bitcoin from completely different reasons. 347 00:32:45,007 --> 00:32:49,847 I came at it from probably greed, I would say, 348 00:32:50,027 --> 00:32:56,267 because I kept seeing a buddy of mine who I knew was very wealthy put stuff up. 349 00:32:56,787 --> 00:32:59,227 And I finally talked to him and he gave me kind of the end. 350 00:32:59,367 --> 00:33:02,947 But I think you kind of came at it from the academic humanitarian side. 351 00:33:03,047 --> 00:33:05,547 Right. I was a philosophy major, so I never had wealthy friends. 352 00:33:05,807 --> 00:33:05,987 Correct. 353 00:33:07,267 --> 00:33:08,967 I never had to worry about wealth. 354 00:33:08,967 --> 00:33:15,267 That was not something that like greed would have been entirely hypothetical for me that, oh, that's something you have if you have money. 355 00:33:15,367 --> 00:33:17,067 I didn't have the predicate to greed. 356 00:33:17,427 --> 00:33:18,207 But no, like what. 357 00:33:18,747 --> 00:33:20,687 Greed is what you have when you don't have money. 358 00:33:22,367 --> 00:33:24,427 Some idea of money you don't have. 359 00:33:24,627 --> 00:33:29,267 Like in philosophy, it's like you don't you don't get this. 360 00:33:29,527 --> 00:33:34,107 You don't get a skill that's going to make you wealthy, but you get the skill that makes you not care that you're not wealthy. 361 00:33:34,267 --> 00:33:34,487 Right. 362 00:33:34,767 --> 00:33:34,987 Yeah. 363 00:33:34,987 --> 00:33:35,407 Yeah. 364 00:33:35,807 --> 00:33:35,987 Yeah. 365 00:33:36,067 --> 00:33:37,107 What is that? 366 00:33:38,347 --> 00:33:38,787 Indignation. 367 00:33:38,967 --> 00:33:46,947 it's a negative description of all the philosophy but perhaps it's true but no so i was i was doing 368 00:33:46,947 --> 00:33:52,167 lawyering at the time of the human rights orientation and so alex gladstein like so again 369 00:33:52,167 --> 00:33:56,407 we're talking about different theoretical frameworks that one might have and like the 370 00:33:56,407 --> 00:34:03,187 common ones financial banking uh you know economic theory and then with lowry military theory human 371 00:34:03,187 --> 00:34:07,867 rights could be considered also another you know orientation someone could have to bitcoin the 372 00:34:07,867 --> 00:34:14,007 another theoretical framework from which a person could deduce hypotheses about what does Bitcoin, 373 00:34:14,007 --> 00:34:20,007 does it actually in X society lead to less oppression from an authoritarian government? 374 00:34:20,627 --> 00:34:26,707 And so Alex Gladstein's book, Check Your Financial Privilege, that really opened my eyes. And that 375 00:34:26,707 --> 00:34:31,587 was a theoretical framework that, I mean, it's not philosophical, it is very economic in orientation, 376 00:34:31,587 --> 00:34:52,640 But it is very value based and ethical and oriented towards kind of claims about ethics within political morality of oppressive societies cannot sustain an open monetary protocol because of the way they operate and more so like check your financial privilege if you don see why that 377 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,200 significant for someone in other countries because you've never lived in a country where you haven't 378 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:04,680 had access to banking like and so you know if you say ah you know just get like apple pay or venmo 379 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:09,260 or whatever it's like well these things aren't even available in in certain countries right so 380 00:35:09,260 --> 00:35:22,760 But so in any case, asking myself that question I asked you, coming at this from the frameworks that were given to me, my own experience, the perspective I have naively not considering Bitcoin as a monetary technology. 381 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,480 It first arrived to me as a human rights technology. 382 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,660 And I still see it as that. 383 00:35:28,780 --> 00:35:30,020 Like, that's what I see it as. 384 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:36,660 And that is what, even beyond any investment thesis, that's what sustains my conviction. 385 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,780 That's why Bitcoin is hope. 386 00:35:38,780 --> 00:36:07,140 And again, hope is what gives me curiosity. And it's this reinforcing feedback loop. And now I want to learn about banking and financial theory and all these other things, because I want to understand why this thing works and the ways in which it's going to ramify. So yeah, I mean, that's just given my philosophy, philosophy background and the kind of human rights oriented lawyering I did. And then Gladstein's book really struck me and was a good theoretical framework for me. 387 00:36:07,140 --> 00:36:12,320 yeah and i should say you know at the time that i was doing that i was i was living this comfortable 388 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:18,120 life as a banker and i had a little money and i was just like oh how you know how can i how can i 389 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,940 find something that will help me retire earlier because i don't want to do this like i just 390 00:36:21,940 --> 00:36:26,860 genuinely wasn't enjoying but concurrently at you know at the same time i was sitting there and i 391 00:36:26,860 --> 00:36:35,620 was reviewing financial statements coming in from operations during 2021 after um agriculture had had 392 00:36:35,620 --> 00:36:40,600 just the most insane year ever. They had the greatest, they had the best yields. They had the 393 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:46,140 best prices. They got the biggest payments from the government that were just, um, we, I called 394 00:36:46,140 --> 00:36:51,981 it the Trump bump, uh, on the coat on the heels of COVID. Um, and so, you know, they had all this 395 00:36:51,981 --> 00:36:59,160 money coming in, but I had so many operations that their entire net worth grew by 40%, but they 396 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:04,940 couldn't pay their bills and they needed more credit. And then I had operations that were coming 397 00:37:04,940 --> 00:37:10,500 in that had literally never borrowed money, like people that literally did not have a credit score 398 00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:14,540 because they had never borrowed money before. And we had to figure out how to finance somebody 399 00:37:14,540 --> 00:37:19,660 without a credit score. Um, and they were coming in asking for money. And I was like, 400 00:37:19,660 --> 00:37:25,580 none of this makes sense. Everything, everything should be working. Everybody's getting more money. 401 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:33,600 All of your ground, just like the, the, the real estate values went up 30% in a year or 50% 402 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:39,260 In some cases we had irrigated ground that was going for 6,000 was then selling for 8,900, 403 00:37:39,481 --> 00:37:41,780 $9,200 per acre. 404 00:37:42,540 --> 00:37:46,820 And you're looking around and you're like, wait, I thought that was good. 405 00:37:47,420 --> 00:37:50,080 And, but if that's good, then why is everybody broke? 406 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,320 And why, why is this not working? 407 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,280 And why are we expanding lines of credit from a million to a million five? 408 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:05,981 and so having that perspective where I was researching that and that took me down the 409 00:38:05,981 --> 00:38:10,900 you know the creature from Jekyll Island rabbit hole and learning about you know the Fed and 410 00:38:10,900 --> 00:38:16,720 learning about that kind of money if not for that just the simple number go up thing on my 411 00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:21,360 on my app was on on Coinbase was not going to get me there and the way that I know that by the way 412 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:27,580 is because there's a whole lot of guys right now in the Wall Street Bets section of Reddit 413 00:38:27,580 --> 00:38:31,260 that are learning a terrible lesson about greed right now 414 00:38:31,260 --> 00:38:37,040 because they're in there going, oh, this MSTR thing, it's way overvalued. 415 00:38:37,140 --> 00:38:39,120 We're just going to short the living hell out of it, 416 00:38:39,140 --> 00:38:43,200 and they are getting their faces ripped off right now, and nobody understands why. 417 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,640 And it's because, yeah, they're coming at it from greed, but there's not something else. 418 00:38:48,100 --> 00:38:49,860 I mean, there will be when they go broke. 419 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:56,360 And then it'll be a need to know basis because they'll want to know what killed them and what killed them was Bitcoin. 420 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,640 They will transmute it into the facile knowledge of mimetic contagion. 421 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:03,320 They will assume that master is in Bitcoin or another meme. 422 00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:04,260 They understand memes. 423 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,540 They will on the lowest common denominator interpret the phenomena. 424 00:39:08,020 --> 00:39:11,460 Hopefully they will have the curiosity to extend beyond that. 425 00:39:11,660 --> 00:39:12,481 But we'll see. 426 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,280 The ADIQ memes are really getting it done these days. 427 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:21,200 It's like they're effective, they're simple, and they are spreading like wildfire. 428 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:22,020 Yeah. 429 00:39:22,580 --> 00:39:23,060 Yeah. 430 00:39:23,580 --> 00:39:24,020 Yeah. 431 00:39:24,260 --> 00:39:24,940 I don't know. 432 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:25,180 Yeah. 433 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:32,720 So anyways, I think for both of us, I think maybe it's probably accurate to summarize that, you know, 434 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:39,920 we got to Bitcoin the way that God or whatever it was was supposed to get us to Bitcoin. 435 00:39:41,020 --> 00:39:43,260 You know, we found it because it was there for us. 436 00:39:43,260 --> 00:39:46,020 Um, and there was nothing that I could do differently. 437 00:39:46,260 --> 00:39:49,460 And there was, yeah, I mean, you're a curious person. 438 00:39:49,460 --> 00:39:55,960 I mean, I am curious in some ways, and I think that it's nice that Bitcoin rewards virtue 439 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:56,900 in that way. 440 00:39:56,900 --> 00:40:03,780 It, you know, you come to it when you need, when the time that is adequate, correct for 441 00:40:03,780 --> 00:40:09,100 you, preordained, Kabbalistically, but you also come to you because you're engaged with 442 00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:09,560 the world. 443 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,600 It comes to you because you're curious about things. 444 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:16,220 it comes to you because you're concerned about preserving your value that you've accrued in your 445 00:40:16,220 --> 00:40:21,920 life you're concerned about your family and so it's nice when things reward virtue and virtuous 446 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:28,320 behaviors virtuous characteristics and so there's one lesson or the one thing i also this is kind of 447 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:34,040 a meta point from this but i wanted to i don't know end with this or at least say it that um 448 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:41,080 lowry notes that when you engage when you engage in grounded theory methodology it takes a high 449 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:46,700 risk tolerance for a theorizer. So you're going, you have the data, you don't have a theory to 450 00:40:46,700 --> 00:40:52,380 guide you, you have to find that theoretical framework. And so you go out in the wild into 451 00:40:52,380 --> 00:40:57,800 the wild of the data itself, that's not the data that's faceless without concept. I mean, 452 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:02,100 there's a Kantian point in there, like, without the concept, you know, it has no name yet, 453 00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:07,220 it is nothing. And so you have to give it meaning, you have to subjectively kind of describe this 454 00:41:07,220 --> 00:41:13,160 data, come up with concepts that do that, then organize those concepts into categories, 455 00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:13,600 et cetera. 456 00:41:14,180 --> 00:41:16,300 And so you have to have this high risk tolerance. 457 00:41:16,660 --> 00:41:19,880 And it's also, at the end of the day, you are making something. 458 00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:21,880 What you're making is a theoretical framework. 459 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:22,800 It's not a rocket. 460 00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:26,040 It's not going to save humanity, but you're making something. 461 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,340 And I think we're entering the epoch of the makers, of people who, whatever you make, 462 00:41:31,340 --> 00:41:40,280 be it you know an emotion if you're an artist maybe it's an idea if you're a thinker maybe 463 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:45,680 it's a theory if you're an investigator but this is the epic of makers and i like that the grounded 464 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:52,140 theory methodology is about making something something that's that's non-material a theory 465 00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:56,900 but you make something and like lowry made something of value this power projection thesis 466 00:41:56,900 --> 00:42:09,540 And I hope one thing that this dry methodological section could do maybe is empower people to be elons of theorizing and come up with new theoretical frameworks and make something. 467 00:42:09,540 --> 00:42:16,840 yeah i think about um when you think about kind of the scariness of walking into that data 468 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:22,760 without knowing it makes me think of of songwriting and when i when i write i typically 469 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:30,220 i i tend to want to write about some of the more like darker subjects um and i've always held the 470 00:42:30,220 --> 00:42:35,040 belief that there is more in darkness than there is in light you know if you're if you're faced 471 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:40,520 with darkness, there could be anything in there. Um, and your imagination will put anything in 472 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:46,180 there, but if you shine light on something, it just simply is what it is. Um, and so you think 473 00:42:46,180 --> 00:42:51,460 about like, Oh, you know, I could sit down and I could write a song that, uh, is about, is about, 474 00:42:51,460 --> 00:42:57,180 uh, beer drinking and driving trucks and chasing girls. And all I have to do is, you know, start 475 00:42:57,180 --> 00:43:04,100 rhyming stuff with boots and boots and jean shorts and tank tops or whatever. But this other idea 476 00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:09,100 where you're like, you know, I feel something that I don't like and it's unsettling and I'm not really, 477 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:16,200 I'm not really prepared to, to manage it emotionally, but I'm going to try to write it down and see what makes sense. 478 00:43:17,340 --> 00:43:23,880 And that's, it can be scary because it takes you into something that when you're done, you, you may not, 479 00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:31,640 you may not really like about yourself or you may not, you may not want it to represent what it actually does. 480 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:36,160 It may reveal a truth that you weren't willing at the time to consider. 481 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:46,540 But just like the data ordering itself, you know, just like cleaning out the shop and the tools getting put into order, they do reveal themselves for what they are. 482 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,740 And, you know, going back to it, it's not coming up with something that's not false. 483 00:43:51,780 --> 00:43:57,120 It's coming up with something that becomes more and more true the more you look at it. 484 00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:17,060 So that, yeah, I'm just having done a little, I mean, just, and I mean, just the tiniest bit of research, like it was truly just so eye opening to consider this idea of what does it mean for research to take those blinders off and actually try to look at the forest instead of the trees. 485 00:44:18,780 --> 00:44:20,880 No, look at the trees in order to. 486 00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:21,960 Yeah, look at the trees. 487 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,280 Yeah, that's actually true. 488 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,020 Yeah, look at the trees so that you can see the forest, I suppose. 489 00:44:26,020 --> 00:44:29,220 Or understand that it's not a forest, it's a other thing. 490 00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:29,800 It's everything. 491 00:44:30,180 --> 00:44:30,340 Yeah. 492 00:44:30,860 --> 00:44:31,100 Yeah. 493 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,260 No, that's a good way to put it. 494 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:34,520 So, yeah, I don't know. 495 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,540 I love the route that it's taken us down. 496 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:44,481 And especially just, you know, again, reading a methodology section should be the most boring thing about a paper. 497 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,880 But this, you know, it couldn't have worked any other way. 498 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:49,360 Yeah. 499 00:44:49,360 --> 00:45:01,560 And so it really did provide this deep breath of coming at it from different facets to support what became a theory that didn't start as one. 500 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:07,120 Right. And that's what we have here is a novel theory about Bitcoin and its strategic relevance. 501 00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:09,920 And that novelty is not possible without this methodology. 502 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,501 So, yeah, it was worth reading definitely this chapter. 503 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:14,400 100%. I'm glad we did. 504 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:20,920 I appreciate Jason Lowry stepping into the comments and trying to give us a pass on it. 505 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:22,460 Thanks, teacher. 506 00:45:22,780 --> 00:45:24,860 Yeah, but super glad. 507 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:25,960 Yeah, definitely. 508 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:27,060 Very revealing. 509 00:45:27,540 --> 00:45:28,380 Nope, it was great. 510 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:29,940 All right, that's all I got. 511 00:45:30,501 --> 00:45:34,240 All right, so then next time we'll check out Chapter 3. 512 00:45:34,620 --> 00:45:34,840 Yes. 513 00:45:35,140 --> 00:45:39,620 Chapter 3 gets us into kind of the meat and potatoes. 514 00:45:39,620 --> 00:45:40,481 The meat of things, right on. 515 00:45:40,481 --> 00:45:44,060 Yeah, really, which is, let me scroll down here. 516 00:45:44,060 --> 00:45:45,960 so I don't get it wrong, 517 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,320 just in case there's people that are following along 518 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:49,920 that are interested in how this works. 519 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,780 With bated breath, wondering what the name of Chapter 3 is. 520 00:45:53,780 --> 00:45:54,440 Yeah, exactly. 521 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:55,920 People that tell us to look at a table of contents. 522 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,220 There are people that are too lazy to Google the PDF, 523 00:45:59,501 --> 00:46:00,620 so I want to say that. 524 00:46:00,620 --> 00:46:02,540 There's no way if I was listening to a random podcast, I would. 525 00:46:02,860 --> 00:46:05,740 Yeah, Chapter 3, Power Projection Tactics in Nature, 526 00:46:06,100 --> 00:46:07,360 which I think is going to be fascinating. 527 00:46:07,740 --> 00:46:08,580 It is fascinating. 528 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,160 It's got a David Attenborough feel. 529 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:11,800 We've already read it, both of us. 530 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:12,501 We know it's fascinating. 531 00:46:12,660 --> 00:46:13,100 It'll be good. 532 00:46:13,100 --> 00:46:14,220 Yeah, it'll be great. 533 00:46:14,481 --> 00:46:15,900 So, yeah, appreciate it. 534 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,820 Great conversation, and we'll do it again. 535 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:18,501 All right. 536 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:18,860 Thanks, man. 537 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:19,600 Later.