BDC Backpacker, welcome to the podcast.
What's going on, Jake? How you doing, man?
Yeah, I'm very excited for our conversation today.
We stumbled across each other online,
and such is the nature of this world we live in today.
Digital footprints, they exist, right?
You can read stuff that someone posts,
you can see their profile,
you can see what they're interested in.
You're like, cool, lots of stuff to talk about here.
So to kick off the conversation, super simple.
What are you working on right now that you're most excited about?
Okay, so the number one thing I'm working on right now is basically I'm a father.
I homeschool my three children along with my wife.
We all have Bitcoin pseudo anonymous names.
My wife is BTC Backpacker or I'm BTC Backpacker.
My wife is BTC Fanny Packer and I got BTC Hodler, BTC Anonymous and BTC Flipper.
Those are all of my kids.
We're really working on getting them involved into Bitcoin and understanding the whole cycle of how the financial system works,
along with homeschooling, basic fundamentals and trying to really shield out the noise of what society has brought in us to give them a well-balanced education and mindset.
Awesome. And so I think it would be fair to say then that the most important thing in your day is a combination.
of of bitcoin but education and being a father so number one job being a dad yeah epic what a
great place to be and was that always where you expected to get to at this stage in your life
or was homeschooling something that came along um as part of the process like run me through the
the decision making that you've got to go through to get to that kind of point yeah so i mean there
is a little bit of backdrop. There's some a little, there's some medical history within all
this, which would really kind of be like the baseline starting point of it all. My wife is,
she is fighting cancer. She has a stage four breast cancer. It's a HER positive metastasized
breast cancer. And so with her going through her treatments and everything, we needed a lot of
flexibility within our life to be able to maneuver, shake and maneuver within doctor's appointments
and kind of just really, you know, taking a hold of life and being able to be in control.
The school system didn't allow us to do that. There was a lot of red tape, a lot of you can't
miss this, you can't miss that day. You know, there was just a lot of regulation and control.
So that was a big start of it. But then also getting into some of the, you know, the political
nature of it and some of the things we just overall didn't agree with and it didn't line up
with us. So it was really kind of meant to be, it was a blessing in disguise. Um, so did we
initially plan on this? No, but we took the situation for what, what had, what basically
what had happened and we are, we made the best out of it. And now that she's, you know, more than
several years, you know, since being diagnosed and is kind of a pretty stable now. Um, we have
thus ran with the situation and really enjoyed being able to take hold and be in control. I guess
we're a little bit of control freaks. We, we like to be in control of our lives and, and, and be able
to, uh, educate our children because we chose to have these kids. Um, so it was really just the
stars were aligned and now we've been able to implement um financial uh you know education
within the kids um reading writing arithmetic the really the fundamentals and we're able to
eliminate a lot of that uh you know exterior nonsense of um just people doing things that
we just don't align with so interesting well and everyone's experience through life is different
yeah we don't know what's going to happen every single day you can wake up and something incredible
can happen or something horrible can happen you just never know you don't um i i have to ask and
i hope you don't mind this please share as much or as little as you as you want but in terms of
the the cancer journey that your wife has been through that must have been a very very difficult
emotional up and down process um to share very briefly my mother-in-law has been going through a
breast cancer experience too and i confess i don't know the exact type of breast cancer she had
off the top of my mind um but it was an extraordinary thing to witness where she's now
i think it's called cancer free or in remission i couldn't say the right phrase exactly but um it's
been two to three years of a journey through which she's gone through all these different
treatments gone to these different specialists gone to these different places and the the upshot
was she ended up having a double mastectomy but didn't go through the chemotherapy route
and chose a bunch of alternative therapies we went to Mexico with her to a place called Hope for
Cancer she was trying all sorts of different protocols with natural approaches and non-drug
and non-invasive and what was extraordinary was the system in place for cancer treatment
is like oh you've got cancer right first you've got to do is get the surgery done then you've got
a pump full of drugs and the the drop-off stats of like five years plus if you go down the heavy
chemo route are very concerning it's like you might do okay initially but then like what happens
after that and the extraordinary thing with a an illness like that is the pressure is just put on
that's it guys you've got the diagnosis you're out and and that decision making position you
find yourself in especially as the individual like there's only so much support you can give
as the son-in-law in my case but um stick or twist like how do you decide what route to go down and
how's the experience been for you i mean i know i'm sure it's a sensitive subject but it's
come up. Yeah. You know, I mean, we're, we're very open people. Um, me and my wife and my kids
were pretty based. We, we say stuff, we don't hold back and we're okay with sharing our story.
It's a, it's a story to be, to be shared. Um, and we're not ashamed by it. Uh, nor is my wife,
you know, feel embarrassed or anything like that. Um, we had a lot of places tell us when,
when she found out that, uh, they wanted to, my wife was pregnant with our third in her third
second trimester going into her third trimester. And they were saying terminate, they won't give
her the cancer, they have to terminate the baby. And that's against our morals and values. So we
didn't accept that. And we got second and third opinions. And then we finally got a place put into
in touch with a place called OHSU, which is a medical science university and hospital.
and they were willing to say like, hey, there is a trial and we did do a trial.
And I believe we were successful within that trial, considering it's going on,
going to be going on about 10 years. We were successful with that. So we didn't take no for
an answer. We continue to go through the trial. And like you said, when we found out and I heard
that, I'll never forget where I was at at the time. At the time, I was working in Hawaii because
we lived in Hawaii prior to where we live now. And I was working in Hawaii and I got a phone call
and I'll never forget the phone call exactly where I was at in the parking lot where I was at and how
I felt. I took the first flight over and I was there to, uh, to be there with my wife and to
basically continue, you know, start the process, um, upon her finding out, um, which was January,
I believe 27th. Um, she started treatment, uh, February 14th, uh, Valentine's day. And, um,
she got started right into chemotherapy. Um, now the interesting thing is, uh,
with starting this journey and this process with her, um, not only was a psychological toll,
it was a physical toll as well, because, you know, it's very demanding in your time,
um, with having to raise the two other children and be there for your wife and,
you know, all these multiple appointments and financially being able to, to live.
Um, we're very grateful for our living situation. We have a house that's right behind me. It's a
tiny house. They're mobile. They're on wheels. So you can attach it to a truck and we can pull it
wherever. So we are very grateful to be living in it, you know, to to be able to take our home with
us. You know, if we were caught in a 30 year or even now what they're doing, 50 year mortgages,
our house would have been gone. I couldn't afford that. But we paid for our house in cash and we
paid for our vehicles in cash. And so we were very grateful to not have not been in any debt at the
time. And so we were able to just literally relocate our life up to Vancouver, Washington,
and seek treatment there. Naturally, we are very homeopathic. We're very cautious on the foods and
the things we bring into our bodies. And it really, that process really sped up once we realized what
chemotherapy and cancer and everything really was. You know how they say it doesn't affect you until
what affects you, right? And so you hear these stories, but then once you're living it, it's
different. It's a different ballgame. We've really got into the medicinal side of things and really
watching what we put in our bodies. And I am a believer now more than ever that that has also
helped out with this cancer journey with taking the pharmaceutical side of things, but also
implementing the homeopathic and natural side of things of just overall living a healthy, clean
lifestyle. So yeah, it was, um, it was a lot to take in. We did do a lot of therapy because there's
a psychological side to it. Um, our kids, we all did therapy and it was, it was the best thing ever
because, um, you don't realize how lost you are in the journey and how difficult it is. And, um,
but it's a, it's a beautiful thing. And the fact that this is a story that we can share with other
people and other people that are going through this, um, because not everybody that gets cancer
is just some single individual or someone who's 65 years old and retired, right? There's people
who are young like us who have to take the situation for what it is. And you need to figure
out how to like work through it. And we're definitely a testament to that.
And so tell me, Backpacker, the situation that your wife now finds herself in is a stable
position and the cancer has subsided essentially? So they can't say it's cancer free because her
cancer is fed off of hormones. And as a woman, she naturally gives off hormones. So she was put on
this medication that basically suppresses her hormones. That gives her just enough to basically
be alive and healthy, but not too much where it would feed the cancer. So we do go in for regular
checkups and um she just recently stopped taking her um because they found her blood work to be
good enough they she stopped taking her uh her um her oral cancer medication and she now goes in
for bone bone chemotherapy which is or it's uh basically it's a because the next place it's
going to go potentially her brain and you know her bones or all these other places so she's not
technically cancer-free but she is um nothing has changed it's kind of been stagnant so for us we
take that as a win and because if it's not growing or doing anything then that's a win for us yeah
absolutely well as a mother of three kids um she's the engine room of the family yeah i mean
god bless to that fucking hell it would be so difficult like if i even think about that that
scenario you just walked me through wow i mean it must have been so tough on yourself as well to
think about like oh my god what happens if i've got to do this on my own and it's scary and we've
had these conversations right yeah yeah no we've had them we've had them jake we've had these
conversations of end of life hey what's going to happen how's this going to work out you know and
they're not easy conversations to have but they need to be had you know and and we not only we
have to have these conversations because it can happen. And tomorrow's never guaranteed,
and that's how we live our life. Tomorrow's never guaranteed. So yeah, absolutely. It's
so important to be open and honest and transparent. Gosh, I mean, what a journey already you're
taking me through. I'm loving it in a sense because it's so real, right? People face these
problems every single day and instead of bottling them up making it like an under the cover thing
where you know no don't tell anyone this is going on I think quite the opposite is actually the most
valuable where you actually have to process this information and understand it what I'm intrigued
to to get more of a grasp on here is you know when when a let's say when a big moment like this
appears in your life one thing i often look at is like you know when the information changes
do you change too and this can be in relation to frankly anything but when people stay stuck
with their previous opinion even though the information is clearly different
that frustrates me and it's like that's actually stupidity in my opinion yes you must have learned
so much since this all began what do you think is the root cause of it like is it is it just a
lifetime of toxicity from environmental issues what goes in your mouth what you might have been
vaccinated with like who knows right the wi-fi the 5g yeah have you come to any clear conclusions
as to like why would a woman in their you know childbearing years actually even get cancer in
the first place yeah so from a um from a medical standpoint she did go in and get
genetical testing and the genetical testing turned back to come back to be negative, which
means that it wasn't passed on through genetics. Um, so we were really grateful to be able to
qualify and get that because that testing is very expensive and we were able to get that
medically covered. So we were very grateful for that. Not everybody gets that or can afford that.
Um, so once we were able to kind of like push that off of the table, we kind of really deep,
dove deep down into why, like, what did we do? Like, you know, was it the way we lived or where
we lived at and this and that. And that's a hard question to answer because I am a believer and we
are believers in the fact that if you live in heavy polluted areas or, you know, you consume
things that maybe in your 20s, you just feel invincible and you can just consume and it's not
going to affect you, but maybe it affects other people earlier. We didn't, you know, we went down
all avenues of things like 5G towers and chemtrails and, you know, I mean, you name it,
fertilizers, organic, non-organic. I mean, we went down the line of all that. But at the end of the
day, it's an impossible thing to figure out what really had caused it or how did it happen. Now,
I'm a believer that we all have a cancer gene in us and it's just a gene that goes rogue. But what
causes it to go rogue right um so it was a hard question for us to to answer you know um
and that was a therapy part two because we went for a long time questioning why why why
what if why how could we have we should have done this we didn't do that and that ate us up
that ate us up a lot. And so we had to establish the ability to gain acceptance and to be able to
psychologically be able to stop the mind warfare of why and how and what, and figure out what do
we need to do for ourselves to move past this, accept it, but grow as people. And what can we
do and deliver, or what can we give to other people as knowledge or just overall spiritual
support of being able to push past this. And that was a big one for us because we were, I felt guilty.
She felt guilty. Like she was failing. I felt guilty as a father. Like I wasn't able to give
my a hundred percent because I was so, I felt like I was so stretched, stretched out, you know,
and then in all these places of where I should be, you know, being a man and providing for my family.
And then I felt like I was like abandoning my kids because I felt like they weren't getting
all the attention they should have been getting. Like maybe other people are able to give.
so we had to we had to we had to fix our minds before anything and and doing that has allowed
us to be where we are who we are today and just overall good spirited brilliant I love that
conclusion because it actually resonates with a similar one that you know my mother-in-law had in
a sense and some um treatment that she went through where uh so a lady i had on my podcast
dr jin on uh jin was uh traditionally trained as an osteopath but has got all sorts of different
um influences on her health care practice and one of the big things that she now focuses on
is emotional health and so she will coach people through serious illness whether it be cancers or
different types of surgery and she'll help them like I did a three-month coaching program with her
for example to process deep set emotion and what Jin's finding is that if you help people through
the storytelling that they give themselves every single day and to release deep set angst it can
even be intergenerational stuff that they inherited from their parents that conditions
them to think a certain way that release of emotion opens up the body to heal and you've
reached a very very similar conclusion but through a different route um i'll share the episode with
you when we finish recording because it will be really interesting for you to have a look and
jim's released a book recently that you guys could read that might be helpful for your wife too
because it's a kind of structured coaching process to say okay you've got this illness today
but like what's next and sitting in that space of um of anger or frustration of guilt of shame
it's a very low vibration and that just brings more low vibration stuff to you yeah the irony is
as you as you shift through that thought process and that negativity you're able to improve your
vibration essentially and then better things happen um wow cool okay and so um if does anything
resonate there that you'd like to chime on?
Yeah I mean we really big on like it sounds like kind of cliche but we really big on about the vibe right Like what the vibe Am I vibing with you Am I not vibing Am I vibing with you right now with this podcast
Absolutely.
I love it.
This is great.
If I'm not vibing with somebody or somebody doesn't bring value in our life, then we don't act to try to like, oh, play the game.
Like we just don't vibe with you and it's just not working.
And so if there's no value that you can bring to me or I can bring to you, then I think we just need to part ways. And that's okay. I think as a society, we're so caught up in needing to please people or look a certain way or act or do a certain thing. And I think that is so far from the truth. I think it's disingenuine. I think that in general, it's all about vibe and connecting with people. And it's okay. It's just like, people think it's so bad when you don't connect with somebody or like, it's like the end of the world.
or if you have a different view, if you have a different view on something, that's fine. It's
not that big of a, it's not the end of the world. You know what I mean? You can have different views,
but as long as one view, one view, but if you still vibe, then it's fantastic. Right? So I guess
like what I'm really big on also controlling the controllable. If there's a situation that I cannot
control, then, and that's okay. I only can control what I can control or believe or act and do my
own actions. I can't do what, be forced to do what other people are doing or try to conform to them
because that's just not a real thing. So yeah, the situation in itself has allowed us to have
extremely strong relationships, really embrace and respect relationships more so than ever.
So it's been, it's been phenomenal. And it's interesting, isn't it, how
it's like one's one darkest moments or hardest times are what forms the best things yeah like
ironically it's like you've got to hit those moments of like true fear or true anger or true
guilt to then go the other other way and realize oh okay i wasn't getting that quite right and and
a lot of this is to do with mindset i think that's why these podcasts are so fun because
it's like how do you think and how you think completely affects the outcomes that you're
getting in daily life and the nice part is you can change how you think in spite of those dark
moments like people be like oh my god my life's so shit i can't do anything about it's like no
bullshit it's up to you and it's only you but look at all these people talking about these
experiences they've had where they've changed yeah and they're happy about it and you're like
get me a piece of that talk about a vibe i mean that's how i feel right now this is this is awesome
because it's like okay lots of things resonate you don't have to be the same um and something
i think i really want to hammer on here is the having the strength to be like sorry this vibe
isn't working i'm out because that's the conformity piece that you're talking about like
where one feels guilty for not allowing someone else to feel happy because you're not behaving
how they want it's like well no no my your emotions are not my problem that's it man that's
that's 100 it whoa um okay and so backpacker i want to get to this idea there's a few directions
i want to go but this is something that catches my attention really very strongly is um having no
debt so you mentioned like you've made some decisions you paid cash for your cars and for
the property that you guys live in. How important was that for you from a position of decision-making
power? And like, what would it have looked like had you been in debt? Yeah, man, it was, well,
it's crazy because in Hawaii, we were going through a little bit of a hard time and that
wasn't the case in Hawaii. And so we worked really hard in our twenties to work two jobs,
opposite schedules, a lot of sacrifice. And we did have the, we had the energy. We were young.
We were still young. I mean, we're not old now, but we did. And so we were able to pull ourself
out of it. And then when we pulled ourself out of it and we were able to sit back and kind of,
you know, go like, okay, what do we want to do? You know, how do, how do we want to approach this?
And when we knew we wanted a home, we knew we wanted to kind of like the American dream,
you know at the time and um mind you we knew nothing about bitcoin you know hawaii automatically
is like four years behind on everything and you know this is back in you know we're we're like
you know this is a long time ago right we're in hawaii like we got we actually got into hawaii
like in 2009 you know and we were running a farm and everything and this anyways this whole process
But if I had debt when we had gone through what she had gone through, I don't know what the situation would be.
Because then you get into the debt spiral of what we as we all well know with interest and everything and not being able to like work hard to pay that off.
So it was really ironic how grateful we were to not be in that situation when she got diagnosed.
And but being able to to be debt free and to be able to pay for the house in cash and the cars in cash is just a testament to our hard work.
We knew it did help a little bit that her grandfather was like a financial advisor, but he was really trad fi.
But he always preached, you know, if you can pay for it in cash, pay for it in cash.
If you can work for yourself, work for yourself. Don't rely on other people. Don't rely on the system. Right.
So he really home, he really beat that into us. And so I was very grateful. We were both very grateful to have that mindset already of like kind of self sovereignty and not just relying on the system.
um in our you know we so i think that in a nutshell um right now being debt free and and not
having all this uh this being trapped in the system and being controlled because that's what
it is you're controlled and then you have to conform to everything else um it's just like
giving us the opportunity to even pursue more so what we're doing now being able to do the
homeschooling smash hard stack them sats hard you know what i mean and just really kind of take
our life into control. If we were in that situation when she had cancer and we had the
amount of debt we had, I don't know what the outcome would be. And it's a scary thing to think
about, you know, but, and we never really thought much about that. You know, I don't know why,
but it was just something that I don't think we were really fixated on because we worked hard to
get out of it. And it's like, that chapter was closed. And then we started a new chapter,
you know because life is like full of like chapters and ebbs and flows and like seasons
or whatever you want to call it i get really into that you know we're all about the different
seasons but uh yeah yeah so it's it's just been phenomenal and we've worked hard you know to be
where we're at you know i definitely wasn't given and yeah my house isn't like four hundred thousand
dollars but it doesn't matter because i have the freedom and as we all know if you have time
you're free and it's like that's what true wealth is is time yeah yes like really
like what's the point being a multi multi-millionaire when in order to a achieve that but be sustain
that you have to work 18 hour days you can't sustain a marriage your kids never see you
it's like what what for what i mean at least that's your choice go for it i mean but like
the system coaches you to kind of that's the only goal it's like well is it it's crazy it blows my
mind, Jake, it blows my mind. Like that's, that's, that's, that's painted. That's what they tell you
when you're in school, go to school, go $300,000 in debt or whatever, go, you know, buy the house
and here's the car and here's the credit card when you're 18. Seriously, that's what happens.
And it just blows my mind, you know? And a lot of the time it's not the kid's fault because the
parents should be parenting, but then the parents are also a victim of this system because their
parents maybe fell victim to it themselves so it's almost inherited yeah the cycle
so interesting and so the yeah it's essentially uh being debt-free on critical assets such as
transport such as housing it gives you a base layer from which to make a different set of
decisions essentially and yes that is a a very powerful place to be um the the the bitcoin piece
is crucial here because if bitcoin didn't exist i don't know if you'd even be able to think like that
in some ways so so let's spend a little time here so when did you first hear about bitcoin
how did you start learning about it um and i love these kind of bitcoin journeys because everyone's
different yeah yeah so we first man it's kind of i feel it's feel so crazy saying this we first
heard about bitcoin back i think it's like 2022 but see we were really into the altcoins in the
beginning yep and i love that i think it's awesome some people are like they're ashamed to say i
thought it was fantastic because i'm happy i got it out of the way yeah you got to kind of get it
out the system. So, yeah. So we got into the Coinbase, you know, and got into all that.
How did I hear about it? There was a friend of ours who was into it and they started doing like
a Pi coin and, and some other things. I don't remember what it was. And, and so I got into it.
I think I had like Cardano and, and, you know, XRP and all the nonsense. Right. I got into all
that. And then I started to like, you know, you know, putting like $20 here, $20 there,
Definitely not really into it. Just kind of like, oh, this is kind of cool. You know, oh, this is great. Introduction to the markets, whatever. You know, this is the next new best thing. And then, I mean, it's not like a very princess fairy tale story. I was literally, I was mowing a lawn one day and I'm listening to this one podcast and then the algorithm fed, the algorithm fed me during mowing a lawn, a Michael Saylor clip.
and Michael Saylor, if you all know that he's a lot to digest. If you're just new in Bitcoin,
he's talking all this stuff. You're just like, what's going on? So he's talking about all this
stuff. And I didn't understand half of what he was saying, but it was enough for me to be like,
I need to understand what this Bitcoin thing is because it's a cryptocurrency. That's what I
thought is it's all the same thing. Right. And then I started this deep diving into Saylor videos
and then Antonopoulos videos.
And then that was it.
It was, I was hooked.
Cause I had enough,
I was blessed to have enough financial knowledge
to know how markets work, charts work,
supply and demand, all these things, right?
I was just history,
just for my financial history in itself.
You know, we had some stuff and some ETS,
some stocks and bonds that were done
from way back in the day.
We took all that stuff out.
we i took all my my uh my alt coins out and rolled it all into bitcoin i took a loss on a lot of stuff
but i didn't care i literally just went from zero to 100 straight up super quick and then i just went
down the rabbit hole and i wouldn't say that uh fanny packer my wife that she was into it as early
as i was but i think she started getting tired of hearing the podcasts she was like you're listening
to this 24 seven, you're constantly on the computer, on your phone. You're like, I mean,
what is like, what are you doing? I'm like, Oh, you know, I'm going into this. And then so I
started breaking it down to her and then she started taking interest. And then it was when
she, it was when she first, I really wanted to buy some Bitcoin at the time. And she was like
this. She just goes, here's, you know, here's a couple hundred bucks, you know, put it in this
and that. She goes, but just remember if you're okay with losing it. I said, yeah, absolutely.
and she goes really and i go yeah she goes okay and then that was it once once we were both fully
invested and she was she was always open to to hearing and to knowing about this but it she just
wasn't down the rabbit hole yet and then when she got down the rabbit hole now now she is 100% hard
more hardcore than me it's like crazy like we just went to the bank right now she's like hey we need
go to the bank. I'm like, okay. She goes, we need to, we need to put money in our strike account.
Like today, like right now I'm like, oh, okay. She goes, we just need to have it ready. I'm like,
okay. And so she, mind you, my wife just had knee surgery. So she's two weeks fresh out of
knee surgery. So we got the walker and we're going to the car. We go to the bank, put the money in
the bank. And cause we don't keep money in the bank. You know, I just, yeah, I don't like banks,
you know, I only use them for what they needed to be used for. And so, uh, yeah. And so that's
kind of how it happened, man. And then we, um, we're really big into a community, a Bitcoin
community. Um, uh, the Bitcoiners, uh, for freedom group, uh, my friend, Jerry loves freedom. He runs
a channel and, uh, 88 stats radio drawer. Um, so we're really tight with, uh, both of those
communities and a lot of the people in there, we got the disc, you know, we got the signal
groups and we do the live streams and, you know, we kind of all just lean on each other and spread
positive information and and my kids are on there and they're in the chat and they're watching the
videos and making videos and you know i'm starting to make videos and so um we've become this well
rounded like we're a bitcoin family like my kids my wife and i are in it it's cool one day that
will be every family i hope i think i think that's what is um it's the extraordinary realization
that inevitably you come to when you start going down the rabbit hole it's like hang on a second
so what are the actual fundamentals at play here well what is money and unbelievably none of us have
ever asked that question you know it's it's just like well money's just something you use no mate
what is it and it turns out there's specific properties that a good money will hold and
money does three things and you know we can go through the whole money piece but um sailor was
very important on my journey as well like 2020 comes along and i'm scanning financial markets
just in general uh because that's what i've always done looking after my own capital and suddenly it's
like hang on there's a stock listed company in america that's put bitcoin on the balance sheet
instead of owning dollars in their treasury reserve.
What the fuck?
What's going on there?
And boom, that was what like really sent me deep down.
And I'd already owned Bitcoin for five years prior to that.
So it was more of a like speculative allocation
that I was playing around with.
But suddenly like, hang on,
that's the best investment I've ever made.
And now you're seeing stocklisted companies do it.
Like find out more, go.
And here I am five years later, essentially.
and it's changed my life, completely changed my life.
What I think is cool though,
is when you tell a story like that,
is really 2022 is even more recent.
And look at the change that's already happened for you,
your wife and your kids.
It can happen fast, but it's because it makes sense.
And I always think like the crypto market,
quote unquote, a good analogy is like,
you've got the stock market, right?
Well, what is the stock market?
It's like, okay, well, they're equities.
Okay, well, what's an equity?
Well, it's a portion of a company.
Okay, but companies are different.
This is a mining company.
This is an airline company.
This is a fashion brand.
Okay, cool.
And then you've got index trackers.
And then you've got other forms of passive investment.
Then you've got trusts.
Then you've got real estate.
It's this huge marketplace of different financial products.
And they're all investments.
And so crypto tokens, they're all crypto tokens, yes.
but some of them are completely centralized some of them are slightly more decentralized some of
them are proof of state there's all these different design features that means that they're not the
same and so when you finally get to the point of like hang on maybe this bitcoin thing is just
different to the rest of them and that's why the bitcoin not crypto piece is so important as a meme
because it's helping everyone realize well actually no mate you're trading airline stocks over there
and this guy here has just got the best gold bar you can possibly buy and it does something totally
different have you realized that and most people haven't um was there a particular i mean you've
already mentioned a sailor but was there a particular podcast that you used to love listening
to or a particular moment when you're in a time in a place where like it just really hit home
generally i think there's like four or five serious things that you had to experience in
your life for you to go ah this is why this is important um i'd love to know if anything comes
tomorrow you want to know what i'm not gonna lie i mean simply bitcoin was a big one for me i feel
like those guys are super relatable i was like going down the rabbit hole with those guys watching
all their old podcasts and and then like like watching stuff like like double and triple watching
throughout the day you gotta remember for my business i mow lawns and so i have earbuds in
and i'm able to consume content for a long period of time so i was able to go down a lot a lot of
podcast simply bitcoin really was probably one of the ones that really got me going um because they
were talking about and there was using certain words that i didn't really know now they're a
little different uh not in a negative way then to how they are now they've restructured i think
everybody restructures right the way they do their podcasts and the way they run their changes
team so there's no shade but um there was a lot of things and just words that they would use that
they would bring up in general and then i would kind of be like oh what is this or what does that
mean or or the okay 21 million you know i just really just you just hear it over it's almost like
i hate to say like this i was really kind of i wasn't brainwashing myself but i was a sponge
so full of information i couldn't hold anymore and so um i really would just went down and then uh
And then Jor88SatsRadio, you know, in his early days, I was in his videos or not in his streams a lot, watching a lot of his content.
He got into a lot of more technical things about minors and, you know, being resourceful for using whatever.
I mean, he just got way into it.
Wallets and all this stuff, right?
And then, like I said, now recently with Jerry Loves Freedom, that has gave me an understanding more of a community, which I think I'm really blessed that I actually went in those steps with the Sailor, then the Simply Bitcoin, then the 88 SaaS Radio with Jor, and then Jerry Loves Freedom.
because I like being in the community part of it now, knowing what I know and how convicted I am
now in the community because I understand if it was the opposite way around it maybe would have felt a little different I feel like there would have been a lot of things I wasn too sure of But that was it
But yes, you're right.
It also made me question the dollar and what is it.
I mean, all these companies within the financial TradFi industry
are all, as far as I'm concerned, complete nonsense
because yes, you're owning fractions or full shares or whatever,
but like when Apple went down, when Steve Jobs passed away,
what happens when Elon Musk passed away?
What happens if all these, you got all these,
you got so many variables, right?
That a company can just go bust on, right?
Or splitting stocks, whatever.
It just, it never really stood right with me,
but that's all that we had at the time
where that's what I was in and that's what I was taught. But then once I discovered Bitcoin and
understanding the sovereignty, the scarcity, the, you know, just the whole nine, all the talking
points, I realized, oh dude, this is where it's at. I have to get this. Like the next best thing is
gold. And then maybe silver, if you want to, you know, go down the precious metals game,
but this beats that. And then you start going, hitting the Twitter. Okay. I'm a subscribe to
this guy ascribe to that guy algorithm starts feeding me all kinds of stuff i'm following people
i have no idea who the hell they are i'm just following everybody i'm just scrolling through
feeds and i'm just like i'm literally just laserizing amazing this that's how it was it was crazy
well and so the the i mean i love it because it's it's a similar feeling that i
i also went through and many people that i've interviewed as part of the podcasting journey
I've been on where basically you become like an absolute obsessive around this subject and I think
part of that is like you're like fuck this is a big deal like this is a seriously big deal why do
I not know anything about this and and I've said this many times before but I was highly trained
in how to make money by both sides of my family and their history and equally the the education
I received, but I never stopped to ask what is money. And that was a critical moment because
actually that changes everything. And you're right. I think personally, the counterparty risk
with traditional investments via a financial advisor and the stock market or equally the debt
market, it's much, much higher risk than what anyone realizes. And therefore the pricing of
everything that you can receive is mispriced, in my opinion. And suddenly, there's this thing that
you can self custody with a low counterparty risk, but also because of the nature of the adoption
phase we're at, huge risk reward to the upside. It's like, this is a no brainer. And even, you
know, you jump into the Austrian economics, it's like, okay, the most saleable good. What the fuck
does that mean? It's like, okay, well, there's something out there that in a marketplace rises
to the top as the thing that you want in exchange for whatever you're trading so you bring a goat
to market you bring an apple to market or you bring your time and your skills it's like in
exchange for you don't want a goat you don't want an apple you want the thing that sits in the middle
and that is the most saleable good and like ah that now makes sense what i'm intrigued by is
what were some of you mentioned like some words you didn't understand and you're diving down this
rabbit hole could you remember like maybe the top three or top five terms that like in your life
you've never been taught what those things were and what made you learn yeah they went down like
the the scarcity the fungibility like i never really thought about like tangible like actually
like holding something and they're not holding something like um you know like you know the the
the levels of Bitcoin, right? All those, I didn't really understand, believe it or not,
like all of them, though you go down the whole, you know, I didn't because I was just, I was
giving my money to an investor. I was giving my money to a market and they were just holding,
I didn't own anything. I, you don't own anything like you own nothing. So when I realized that I
didn't own anything and i'm putting all my money in this market or giving it to some financial
advisor and saying here you go and he's playing he's over here playing you know monopoly and and
everything that part is what really got me into the bitcoin thing like i can own this this is mine
that i didn't care about that i didn't care about the limited supply i didn't care about any of that
I do now. But initially I said, I don't own anything. And nobody's sitting around with all
this gold under their bed. Like, it's just not a reality. It's not happening. It's not happening.
And then when they're like, well, you can go and you can like trade with people. I remember my
first lightning transaction because lightning was like revolutionary. I was like, whoa, lightning,
this is kind of cool. So I got a wallet of Satoshi at the time before they got banned.
and then I sent my first zap and I was just like this is crazy and it wasn't so crazy because it's
like I've done that with cash app and paypal I've already done that what was crazy about it was that
nobody had to know about it I didn't have to get acceptance or approval I didn't have any fees I
don't even remember there was fees at the time and if there was they were so minimal so there was like
no middleman and that all came back to the control thing I didn't have to ask for permission
it was permissionless and i'm a patriot and i don't like being controlled and i definitely don't
like being told what to do i want to be in control and make like my life is my life i only get one
and this is the way i'm going to do it and when i saw that this aligned with my my fundamental my
my principles my values my morals and ethics everything i'm like this bitcoin if i had to
say who am i as a person i said oh here's bitcoin this is me this is who i am i like my freedom i
don't want to have to conform to anything it had the limited supply which i dove deeper into because
initially with the money yeah we knew we printed money but did we really know what it what it did
i don't think we did i think we kind of knew but then once i started going into the the 21 million
scarcity and then whoa oh what's a satoshi what is that and so that's like the change
well wait actually bitcoin is satoshi's satoshi's is bitcoin bitcoin is just like the like the the
public name like oh it's a bitcoin great everybody knows that but people don't know what satoshi's
are or not as many so once i figured out and then i started breaking bitcoin down just breaking it
down further further further further further like mining deeper into like what it is and how it
with that mining and all this stuff, I said, well, this is crazy. And this is the first time
the retail investors or people like you and I have ever in the history of this world been able to
front run the institutions. How powerful is that? That's crazy. And that's people, that's freedom.
and it's still true like when i look at even with this explosion in the supposed opportunity of
bitcoin treasury companies or you know the etfs that launched last year we're still at the very
earliest of stages when it comes to institutional adoption so people out there listening to this
you can still front run wall street you can still do that even at give or take 100 grand
i was listening to something today i'll probably publish this episode in two weeks time roughly
60% of current Bitcoin holders are underwater.
So most of the people that bought Bitcoin in the last,
like it's been 40 or 50 days since the 126K
current all-time high was set.
So it's like, hang on.
So literally half the people that own Bitcoin right now
are in the red.
Now, what I would love to understand
is how many of those people understand
the counterparty improvement that they've gone through to own Bitcoin and how much of
it's self-custodied versus the ETFs, etc.
Because in some ways, owning Bitcoin in self-custody at a discount to what you paid for it is still
better than wherever your capital was before.
Because you've got to ask permission to get your money out.
Oh, excuse me, bank, can you send my money over here, please?
Or excuse me, financial advisor, can you liquidate whatever I've got under management?
Excuse me, can I do this? Excuse me. And that's the point here is it's permissionless. It's a great word that. And if you're wondering if it's true, you can go verify. Okay, well, this is the issuance schedule for Bitcoin till 2140 or whatever the final date Bitcoin will be mined. No one knows how much gold's in Fort Knox. We don't know. It hasn't had a public review for 50 years.
so whatever they say it is is clearly not going to be actually true oh my gosh and i think that
was such a good lesson for me too where you dig into the history of money that really helped too
it's like okay so hang on we used to use glass beads and seashells and things that were easily
transportable but hard to find and that developed into then commodity monies gold silver bronze and
eventually we came across telecommunications and it's like okay well now we need to send value
across oceans. It's not very easy to send commodity monies. Let's just send an IOU. And that was
essentially where gold broke, is it couldn't travel across space. It's good at storing value over time,
but it couldn't travel over space. And that is the innovation of Bitcoin. It's like, this is
digital scarcity. So it travels across space and time, and you can own it yourself. Whoa. And that
fundamental fact still is much is completely mispriced like people don't understand that
today no no i think that sorry sorry i just please i really hit on this part it gets you
fired up doesn't it it's great oh man this part gets me going come on we found out we're so lucky
jake jake i'm telling you we we're we're blessed we are blessed and if even though you or i might
not be able to fully, fully understand what we have in our lifetime. At least our kids and our
kids' kids and down the lineage will. When we talk about when we say generational wealth,
that's not something that's just tossed and thrown around because it sounds cute.
It's a real thing. Now, you have a lot of people out there that will say, you know, one sat will
be $1 or move the decimal over and things like that. And I agree with all that. I agree with all
that. But this is the people's money, right? This is our money. Okay. Now we all know that stable
coins and institutional adoption and tri-fi guys and gold bugs and you name it, they're going to
get into the game. It's going to happen. That's what happens with any new shiny toy. You're like,
Ooh, what's that? Let's go check it out. Now I don't buy for a second and think that,
because the thing is, is we live in a debt-based system. Most people may not know that, but we do.
We live in a debt-based system.
And the statistic you brought up about the 60% or 65%, I did hear that the other day.
And it blew my mind.
I'm like, what?
We are up here and that numbers to be true?
Here's the thing.
We're in a tsunami right now.
A tsunami, it sucks the water out and then it explodes.
now i believe the four cycle system the the the the four year the the having cycle and all this
and that and kind of this ebb and flow i am a believer that that cycle eventually will be broken
if not can be i don't think that will stay true through the length of time i think that there's
so many variables that are going to happen over a period of time and although it may still have
the fundamentals of how it works. I think that we're not going to see that charts can repeat,
right? I don't think it's gonna repeat exactly. Um, my biggest thing is this when I buy sets and
I'm stacking, I stack every hour, I stack on the hour. I buy every hour on the hour religiously
and I'm smash buying in between highs and lows. Right. Um, I think everybody needs to, to buy
religiously, consistently, and set it on a schedule. Now where you're just like, okay,
I'm going to manually be doing it. Automate the process. Don't think about it. Take the
psychology out of here. Take the headache and every, cause our lives are busy. Take it out of
here, buy it regularly. And then you can focus on your smash buys here and there as the market
ebbs and flows. That's how I feel about it. And when you're in line and you're in the grocery
store you're shopping or you're at a restaurant or whatever it's so important to have conversation
with someone and it's to be like you joke with them you guys accept bitcoin yet and they can be
like ha ha ha no this and that you make some small you guys gotta start buying bitcoin or
you tip in bitcoin so you're at a restaurant and you're the waiters they're a waitress and be like
oh you know what um do you have bitcoin they're like no i want to give you a tip but if you're
willing to download this wallet i'll tip you in bitcoin and you'd be surprised of some of the
individuals and that that will go through the process some most won't and they won't they'll
you know they won't do it or they feel like they're like being scammed or some or i've heard
of that but i'm not sure and um you know i think that those little conversations within public we
need to have and make it a joke make it fun because people are a little on the edge and so
that's all I gotta say about that. Sorry about that. You know, I just,
no, no, it's great. The,
and that what you describe is viral adoption from the bottom up.
It's people who have figured out this thing and researched it very deeply.
They've put their money where their mind has gone,
put their money where their mouth is. And then it's like, okay,
you go from a typical arc basically of like, first of all,
it's like discover a problem. And then you study that problem.
you're a student of the concept and then you're like well what's the solution and you come across
that and eventually you basically become the teacher and and it's very common and this is
what the bitcoin journey does and it does it naturally because your life improves and you
look at things around you and you're like well you're not going anywhere you're actually going
backwards have you heard about this thing that helped me and it's very natural you want to
necessarily help people one thing i've certainly found is my my approach to like
trying to orange pill people for bent for better worth of a of a phrase i've become less aggressive
about it like i just don't if you're not up for it i don't care but what i do try to do like you
said is pay in bitcoin it's like i pay for my meat in bitcoin at the moment and my boxing coach
i pay in bitcoin and if anyone's up for it like i'll send you i'll send you bitcoin and that is
such a great way of people getting paid for their product or paid for their time. And it makes them
start using it. It's like, no, no, create me a lightning invoice for this amount in Aussie dollars
and I'll send it to you. It's like, oh, is this how it works? It's like, yeah, this is how it works.
And you scan the QR code and boom, you know, there goes 150 bucks worth of Aussie dollar for whatever
you might've paid for. Okay. So backpacker, I'm, I'm, I'm just want to check with you.
How's the battery sitch? Are we okay for another 20 minutes or so?
Yeah, I'm at 39% right now.
So let's go for another 15 or so.
And then we'll just do a quick little checkup again.
Yeah, cool.
All right.
So there's a bunch of things I want to ask you about.
But given we're talking about how you try and ingratiate Bitcoin
and the people around you, you're creating content.
Was that something you used to do?
Why did you start?
And how have you found the process?
Yeah, that's a good question.
So I always liked the thought of creating content.
I enjoy talking with people.
I can talk with anybody, not a problem.
But it was really that leap of faith of like being like, am I good enough?
Am I going to have enough viewers?
It was really kind of, I felt like I was going to fail.
Once I was able to change my mindset and a lot of this is,
I'm really grateful for this.
And I give a lot of this credit to my wife.
you know my wife told me no get out of your head you can do this you're gonna do it pick up your
phone start recording I said okay and then I surround myself with good people um you know
you know my buddy Jerry he's a good person and he's really important to my kids and my family
and we got a really good relationship and he said bro do it and I said okay I'm gonna do it
then I finally did it and then just I I don't know what to talk about I don't know what to say I'm
gonna mess up I need to edit this video you know just going getting in my head again and I'm like
you know what? No, what I'm bringing, I'm not trying to be like anybody else. I'm just wanting
to record my kids. I want to talk about random stuff, good conversation. And I don't want to be
technical. I don't want to talk about charts. I don't want to talk about Bitcoin is this, this,
and that. Cause that's just not me. It's not my channel. It's not what I want to do. I just want
to have good general conversation and, and maybe some current events and, and, you know, just
regular stuff and tie Bitcoin into like life and psychology. Right. Because I get really into the
whole like the psychology of things and thinking of vlogs or recording yourself as digital journals.
Right. Because you're going to look back on these things and your kids are going to look back or your
grandkids are going to look back on these digital journals we're creating and be like, man, that was
grandpa or that was dad. You know, and I think that that's so important to create and being able to
to do that and then tie Bitcoin in it together. So it's not very, very heavy on the Bitcoin,
but it's enough to tie in like how it makes sense. Right. And then also circular economy
with like an individual saying like, you know, cause I, I agree with you, what you said about
the orange pilling thing. And if someone, you talk to somebody about it and you know that they're not
having it, then it's kind of done. You just kind of leave it. Right. But if they have that little
sense of interest and you know, they do, then you're like, Hey, check it out. I wanted to create
these videos on this YouTube channel that I'm doing because I want to be able to have something
that I can refer people to and say, hey, why don't you come check out my channel? And I'm just a
regular guy with a gimbal and a lapel. And I'm just talking with you. I'm not some like, you know,
overly over the top individual You know I not a Jack Maulers I not you know I just me And I want to cater to the family men the dads the fathers the dads who say that they too busy to do stuff like you
not you can you can create content have fun with your kids go longboarding go skateboarding with
them go fishing and still create a video and throw it out there so that's kind of what i uh you know
that's what i envision you know awesome and the irony is when you start creating content is no
one's looking so all the fear and worry that you have around whether or not you're good enough and
the self-sabotage around like i shouldn't bother doing this because i'm just going to fuck it up
it's it's kind of irrelevant because no one's looking anyway but it is also very very powerful
in terms of the the digital breadcrumbs this is something i've described before actually where
people come across your stuff and you have no idea who's viewing it you just get one view
but you then have an impact on them such that they make big decisions and that i think is for
me the most um fascinating part of the kind of content flywheel where like you don't really
realize the positive impact you're having on people's lives until suddenly you get contacted
by someone or you meet someone in person like oh no i've listened to all your podcast episodes
what do you mean all of them that's like 100 hours they're like yeah like this one guy i met
at a Bitcoin conference once.
He'd gone through every episode
of Bitcoin with Jake,
which was a previous podcast I made.
I did 80 of them
over the course of a year.
It's like, holy shit,
that's a lot of time.
Yeah.
Thank you.
And you have no idea they're doing it.
So awesome for starting.
And so has there been,
this is a better question.
Have you created a process
that you go through
to create content,
like at a certain time of day,
or maybe you're catching ideas
in an Apple note somewhere?
How do you do it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I do that. I have a little notepad app that I use and, um, and I'll, I'll make some like digital
notes in there. Or if I'm listening to something, maybe I'll timestamp a video and then, um,
screenshot it and then put it in my folders, you know, for later next thing, you know, you end up
with like, you know, a billion things, you know, you can't cover, which is great, which is better
to have more than not enough. But, um, as far as time of the day goes, I find like evenings work
well for me after we've winded down maybe we've already had dinner and i can go on a walk right
or and the kids maybe want to get some energy out or something or if i'm at the park the kids are
playing they're occupied because really a lot of it is based around the family dynamics of my life
of of you know i'm not going to do it in the in the middle of the haywire hour where everybody's
bouncing off the walls right so um i kind of just go with the flow with what works in my life
and then um in regards to the content there's a lot of the times where i started video and it's
like wait i was gonna i have this whole thing in my head going and i go off the top i don't do
script i don't do any of that and i was gonna i switch it all the time i'm like i was gonna talk
about this and i completely switched it and so um it just comes back to that vibe thing of what i'm
feeling you know and uh and um i've just learned to be open and accepting to uh not being perfect
and there's going to be faults or I might say something wrong in the video or, or I may use a
word that maybe I thought meant something and it didn't and learn to just embrace and laugh about
like, you know, my, my, my work, my content, because I just want it to be pure, raw and genuine.
That's it. You know, that's really cool. I had a, a meditation teacher for about a year and a half,
two years and I was at the time because I'd started creating podcasts and opportunities
came out of that to be involved in certain businesses and to like MC conferences so here
in Australia I grew up in the UK but I now live in Australia my wife's Aussie and there's been some
Bitcoin only conferences one called the Bitcoin Bush Bash and another Bitcoin Alive and I've
ended up doing either presentations or MC so you stand up on stage and you introduce different
people and run panels it's like wow i never i never expected to do that but those are opportunities
that came out of creating content and people get drawn to whatever your vibe is to to echo that
point and they're like that's the vibe we want on the stage can you come and do this and you know
suddenly there's 400 people that have paid for a ticket standing there listening to you like
shit how did i get here um but the point i wanted to make and read the meditation was
the the the guidance that i got was like have faith in the fact that you cannot say the wrong
thing you will say what was meant to be said nothing more nothing less and what that meant
was that i was actually i got invited to indonesia i went to bali and did a an mc job in indonesian
bitcoin conference and um that was amazing experience but i i had you know when you step
up on stage as an emcee it's like okay well your job is really is like the anchor for the day so to
speak but you want conversation to flow you don't want to like overshadow the panelists or the main
speakers uh you want to to help people engage with the content um so it's kind of a specific role in
a sense of like just guiding everyone through the other stuff that's more important um and so i was
creating notes and i was like how am i going to do this and i suddenly realized it's like just get
up there and start talking have a couple of things in mind as to what you need to say to fill that
little segment it's like you know hello and welcome through to the first panel introduce them and then
think about something cool that happened in that first panel that you can relate to your own
experience and then tee up the next conversation and suddenly i got into this flow where people
like hang on a second jake you're just on stage talking what are you how do you do that and i was
like, I don't know, it just kind of happens. And I did, I went through some of your vlogs, and
it's similar. You're just channeling something. And having faith that what you're saying is what
you're meant to say in the moment is incredibly liberating thing. And if people get value tuning
into it, great. If they don't, doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I, we're going to be
going to the Bitcoin conference in April. So I'm stoked about that. Cool. Um, I wanted to go last
year, but, um, uh, it was just didn't work out with scheduling, but yeah, man, it's, um,
I look back and I watched some of my, my, my first one, my second one or whatever. And I,
you know, go down, I don't have a ton, but I see the growth. I see the personal growth and it's so
therapeutic. And I had mentioned that. And I think in a video recently about it was a therapeutic to,
to do this because I feel like you bust out of your shell and you become confident or more
confident and you're just able to, uh, just to talk, you know, being able to talk into a camera.
Some people just think you just do it. And it's a very powerful thing. I'm starting to find out
more and more. And, uh, it's interesting. Cause it's like that pre jitter or the butterflies,
right like even on stage don't fuck it up you know and then once you get those first couple
sentences out words out then you're like we're good we're rolling let's go you know and so yeah
i agree that's a it's a beautiful thing it really is hey mate you're there sorry i lost you for a
second oh i'm here i'm here i was just saying it's a it's a beautiful thing it's it's it's so
It is. It absolutely is. Okay. So I'm conscious of time and an area that I have to ask you about
before we finish, which is homeschooling. Yeah. What, and you've already described the,
the situation you came up against as a family and school not fitting into the schedule that you were
helping your wife navigate. To me, at least, and I've also got three kids and we're homeschooling
I think a little younger than yours, five, three, and one at the moment.
Homeschooling is not bringing school home.
For me, at least at the moment, it's literally just being a dad and being as present as possible
and being the primary caregiver.
What does homeschooling mean to you?
And perhaps you could paint a picture of like, what does the average day look like for you
guys looking after your kids?
So homeschooling for us isn't always just the reading, writing, arithmetic, and like
sitting down doing book work all day long. I think it's a lot of life lessons. I think it's
responsibilities. I think it's understanding how a schedule works and, you know, things as simple
as clean your room, do your chores. Those are important because those are something you're
going to have to do in life. But also being able to teach my kids to think freely, to be able to
have opinions and thoughts and be able to say them. Also, don't be afraid to do what other people
say is not normal or like, don't be afraid to question things, you know, essentially.
I think also that for us on the daily journey or in our daily life, let me just plug this in real
But on our daily life, I think it's it changes day to day because we do a lot of doctor's appointments, therapy sessions, extracurricular activities.
And so our homeschooling is very ebb and flow in regards to like we don't just sit down at a table in our house and do homeschooling for six hours.
Right. So we're what we volunteer at at a local food bank.
we volunteer at a local nursing home because I believe having the kids understand the quality
of being able to give your time to do good things is important because that builds character.
And I think it's always good to give. So we do that. We're out exercising, whether we're doing
the longboarding or we're playing at the park or stuff at the library a lot. And when we actually,
when we do a lot of our homeschooling, we actually go to the library. And because we just have a
plethora of information available, whether it's physical books, internet access, and it's quiet.
And there is a little bit more room because in our tiny house, you know, which is, you know,
365 square feet, essentially, it's a little, it's a little more difficult to kind of really get that
good vibe going with everybody kind of tripping on each other with like books everywhere.
Yeah, so, so it's, so yeah, we do that. And then as far as curriculum goes, you know, we just really stick with, we, we, there's like a rubric we follow, where like there's certain benchmarks, and I'll look at my state's benchmarks of where we should be at just to kind of get a guideline.
And it's we don't necessarily always follow them exactly, but we know where we need to be at with teaching them certain things and where they need to be at.
It's really just kind of taking it in to our own hands of control and understanding that, you know, their future, educational future is we are putting that in our hands.
But I do think that there's a lot of things that kids need to know and then don't need to know.
And I feel like I really just want to home in on things like money is a big one with me, obviously, because we deal with that on a daily basis.
And that wrecks a lot of people's lives.
So money and economics and history is really big.
And then obviously reading and writing, math, we don't, I don't, I try not, I try to avoid a lot of the fluff stuff or stuff that I just feel isn't as important at the moment.
And there's going to be things they're learning in their 20s still, you know.
um but forever yeah forever it's like it's like learning how to learn i really i really love the
idea of being fluid to the day yeah if there's an appointment you got to go to or if there's you
know for example i take my daughters to brazilian jiu-jitsu but i do it when i can and the class is
always on on a weekday at 3 45 uh if i can't get there no stress or equally if it's like you know
things just come up, right?
It's like, okay, we've got to do this today.
And to me, that works very nicely
because it actually makes the things
that they have to do in their day,
they're still so young as well,
but like it changes.
And that's great because life changes the whole time.
It's not about sitting at a fucking desk in a uniform
and trying to memorize stuff.
It's like, you now have a phone
that can teach you anything you want in three seconds.
Like you don't need any of that stuff right now.
But what you do need is to understand how money works, understand how your body works, understand how your mind works, and interact with people around you to then trade.
And it's just, it's so cool to see other people making decisions with their own kids.
Something I've been wanting to say throughout this conversation is you've used the word control a lot, but it strikes me it's actually more about independence.
Yes.
And not wanting others to control you.
and it's like no i can take independence or i can independently think about my kids education or my
own money or my own actions and you're not going to tell me how to do that um yeah what are some of
the biggest lessons from taking back the independence of your kids education like whether
some things that you're really worried about that turn out to be kind of completely irrelevant or
have you seen your kids interacting in daily life with other kids or other situations where you're
art that's an absolutely like that they're doing that because they've been at home with us
yeah yeah so a lot of this also stems from some of my history and my wife's history which i don't
want to get too far into in regards to that but um you know our upbringings were a little rocky
to say the least and so and then with our parents and the things that we were subjected to and taught
and the things that we lacked because we weren't taught and we were actually essentially robbed
of these things that I feel like every individual or child should have, that's a big one for us.
And so we just wanted our kids not to be subjected to like learning a certain way. I think it's
really important. Like you said, I want my kids to learn how to adapt to all situations, to be
like a chameleon you can change the hat in whatever situation you're in that's important to me because
that's real life like you said i wanted to bring that up earlier um i think that in order to be
adaptable it's just so so important i've used that skill so many times as well as i'm sure you have
you know with getting on stage you're having to change this or change that or ebb and flow with
life you maybe you blow a tire out on the highway you gotta okay boom boom let's get this going let's
get the show on the road. I just want my kids to understand that there's more to life than just
doing one thing. Like, I just want to teach my kids that in life they can be whatever they want
to be. And you don't have to just do what other people say. And you can do whatever you want.
If you want to, you know, be a librarian, be the best librarian there is. If that's what makes you
happy. I just want to give my kids an opportunity to be able to flourish in this world because
the world you grew up in when you were younger and the world I grew up in when I was younger
is substantially different than the world we're in now. And we can't change that. There's variables
in this world that are happening and things that are going on in general that are very scary.
and I need to be able to see this and adapt and allow my kids to understand it because we talk
about a lot of current events. I don't shield my kids from anything. My kids see everything and I
mean everything because I feel like it's important because if I don't do that, I'm doing them
injustice by lying to them. I want my kids to be adaptable. We go hunting, we go fishing, we go up
in the mountains, we go in the snow, we go camping. We do all these things that some kids that live
in the city will never know how to do. And I think that, you know, us growing up in the city
and now we're living in the country, I was kind of like, man, I wish I grew up in the country.
But I don't know, maybe they might say the same thing where they were like, well, I wish I grew
up in the city. I don't know, but we just want to best equip them to be a well-rounded individual.
We'll always be here, but I want to, I want to introduce them to a little bit of everything
and then allow them to circumvent their own decisions,
their own thoughts, and mom and dad will always be here.
Awesome.
And what a great or very inspiring picture.
A lot of people will go,
oh, you're irresponsible for homeschooling your kids
or, you know, oh, it's not the optimal way
of helping them through life.
But, I mean, from my experience so far,
at least I couldn't disagree more with those stances.
and there's kind of two key pillars in my mind,
which is like, number one, take control of your money.
Like absolutely critical.
That financial piece is the bedrock
of other decisions that you can make.
But the second one is get your kids
out of the educational system.
And that phrase, you know, if you send your kids to Caesar,
don't be surprised if they come back as Romans.
It's like, if you send your kids off to childcare,
and then to school, and they spend 15 years in the system,
like aged 18, what are they going to be?
Are they going to be primed to be a taxpaying goody-two-shoes
for the next 50, 60 years, which is exactly what the system wants,
without ever asking, for example, the simple question,
what is money?
And there's some crazy stats around how many people suffer
from financial illiteracy.
It's something like two in three people globally
don't understand the inflation.
fuck that's nuts scary and they're all being stolen from oh well well i think that's a really
cool place uh backpacker to to wrap this up and speaking of kids i can hear mine just getting home
in the background so dad duties beckon what an awesome conversation thank you so much for your
time the final thing is where can people reach out and get in touch if they want to do so
so you can find me on nostr at btc backpacker i know we operate on n pubs on there but if you
look btc backpacker you'll find me on there and then um you can find me on youtube just
btc dash backpacker on either platform that's where you'll be able to find me
awesome and i'll also put some stuff in the show notes as well so i appreciate it
all right btc backpacker thank you so much for your time jake my man i appreciate it brother
Thank you.