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Alex welcome to the podcast hey Jake thanks for having me that's my pleasure um okay simple

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question to kick us off and it can take us in all sorts of different directions but what is it that

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you're working on at the moment that you're most excited about oh so actually um recently I've just

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started working with the Bitcoin Collective here in the UK which is kind of like um founded by

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jordan walker and they they did the first major uk bitcoin conference and so i recently joined the

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team working with jordan and and jez and what we're doing at the moment is is really quite

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exciting in terms of pushing businesses into bitcoin or not necessarily pushing businesses

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into bitcoin but pushing bitcoin within normal everyday businesses and helping them understand

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how Bitcoin can basically benefit their business

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and help stabilize their balance sheet

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and all sorts of things like that,

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which most businesses don't even know

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that they can actually hold Bitcoin.

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So it's quite exciting.

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Absolutely.

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And okay.

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And so what does the average customer look like

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in that sense?

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So, and I'm totally with you.

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It's like a lot of people don't even realize

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that Bitcoin's an option.

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And not only is it an option,

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it's actually extremely viable option

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for lots of different reasons, not just having a store of value

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on the balance sheet of a company that's very effective,

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but also taking payments and finding extra customers

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because there's a whole marketplace of people

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that want to use Bitcoin businesses.

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Let's pretend I'm someone coming to the Bitcoin Collective.

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I'm like, oh, like how can I incorporate Bitcoin?

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What do I look like?

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What kind of business have I got?

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And let's start there because this is fascinating.

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yeah so i mean it's all very new at the moment we're doing a conference later this week uh in

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derby and um so we've got liz truss the ex prime minister coming yeah and peter mcormack so like

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quite quite a few big names in in the uk scene and um but yeah it's not really

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in terms of the people we've been speaking to at the moment it's not necessarily

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normal businesses that don't know anything about bitcoin it's more bitcoiners who have a business

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and they're talking to us i'm like i would never knew that i could own bitcoin with my business

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it's conversations like that and yeah so what we're doing now is trying to basically tap into

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that and show more businesses that it's something that you can do it's not illegal it's possibly a

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good idea and there are ways to use it to your advantage cool i i must say i saw this trend

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to some extent i was involved with the bitcoin mentor um when it first launched in australia

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shout out to dale who carried that on um didn't work out for me personally but that process was

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really interesting working with mike and ben in canada and it's like where your mind goes your

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money follows and many people are doing that on a personal level but then it's like well actually

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they're already running companies or they're employees in businesses it's like well hang on

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and you become what's like the gatekeeper to the bitcoin world for a traditional business and you go

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okay well this is working really well on my personal pnl how can i impact it everywhere else

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and so Alex that's really cool so is is that now full-time you're working in Bitcoin?

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Yes yeah pretty much yeah. Okay cool yeah because I heard you say previously when I was watching

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some of your content that you had a day job and that you were doing your content on the side

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what was that and this is always a really fun transition to talk through with people it's like

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okay you obviously really passionate about Bitcoin but like how do you get involved and how do you

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habit as your day job so run me through like where you've been and and how you've managed to go

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through those steps yeah i don't know it's all been a bit of a whirlwind i don't know how i've

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ended up where i where i have it's it's one of those i have imposter syndrome most of the time

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okay but um so i'm i've just turned 30 recently um and i was one of those classic kids that

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went to went to school didn't know what to do finished school was kind of put down the route

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of going to university again still didn't know what i wanted to do didn't really have any

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particular passion or anything like that didn't exactly know what to pursue so ended up doing

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something completely with well something that really isn't of any interest to me so i was a

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landscape architect um basically yeah completely i think the logic at the time was oh maybe i could

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design skate parks that'd be cool yeah nice um but yeah looking back like i should have given

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everything a lot more thought before jumping in but here's what it is you can't take anything back

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just got to keep pushing forward um yeah so i did that wasn't particularly enamored with it

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and just followed it through got a degree and was like okay well i better use the degree it's

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probably not going to help me get another job because it's so niche so i did that and um just

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basically worked worked a job as a landscape architect for about six years maybe six and a

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half years almost exactly at the same time of starting that i was like i need a side hustle

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and uh i'd been investing in the stock market uh since i was about 17 when i was still at school

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i'm just like my dad showing me things and then just sort of running with it

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and um yeah at that point i was like well i know a fair amount about investing so

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started a youtube channel talking about really basic investing stuff compound interest and

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investing in index funds or maybe not or whatever whatever it is and

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yeah so then I was doing that on the sidelines and I was one of those people that heard about

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Bitcoin I was like nah this is just a load of rubbish because I had one friend no exactly it's

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like I was just so indoctrinated by you need a business that obviously businesses make sense

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they make money and then they pay profits to their shareholders makes sense it's like why would

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i want something that does nothing or something that i just don't understand because to be fair

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i just didn't do the research and i had a friend that was um bugging me to buy some bitcoin um i

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eventually did just before uh the it must have been about 2021 before ftx blew up probably about

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nice six months on the way down baby oh yeah so that was my first real step into bitcoin

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i just bought a very speculative speculative position and then i heard about block fi i was

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like okay awesome so i'll put my tiny amount of bitcoin and i bought ethereum as well at the time

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and so i put all of it into block fi and then the whole thing collapsed with ftx so i lost

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all of that and um so that must have been november 22 i think and then it kind of took me a couple of

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months to regather myself it's like what have i done just feeling uh sorry for myself and just

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feeling like an idiot and um yeah so it's the start of the new year that i just eventually

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started learning about bitcoin i was like i wanted to work out what had gone wrong

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and through that learning listening to podcasts i just came to the conclusion that most people do

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that bitcoin has value it is money um and it was a long long slow process so it's about

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six months to a year of just constant listening to podcasts not really understanding everything

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just trying to take on as much information as possible and it kind of opened pandora's box and

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made me realize i don't know anything about money i've been playing games in the stock market looking

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for percentage gains but like it means nothing because your money's being debased faster than

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the rate that you're making returns so yeah it's just a kind of oh shit moment for me and

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it kind of changed everything i was like oh i just if you feel like everything you've been taught is

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just a lie and yeah from that point onwards it was just sort of keep going down the bitcoin rabbit

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hole went to my first conference met jack mallers and all sorts of other huge names in bitcoin and

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i was just like this is insane like i'm how am i surrounded by these people just in with a

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conference of less than 500 people and you go up and speak to someone and they all have the time to

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talk to you and they want to know about what you're doing and it's like these people are just

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the nicest people i've ever met genuine super intelligent super switched on and

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they just seem to genuinely care and i just felt like that moment was one of the points where i was

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like this is like this is where all of the best people are and i just want to be around them

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and it's a it's a cool feeling isn't it yeah you go oh what are they doing this feels different

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yeah completely and not to hijack your story Alex but just so much of that resonates with me in terms

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of suddenly things just start to make sense you're like oh hang on what what do you mean there's

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there's an option that says you can just save money and what do you mean saving and investing

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aren't the same thing what are you talking about you have to invest it's like no no no there's this

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whole school of economics school the Austrian school of economics that happily explains to you

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what money is and whoa it's just this massive moment i agree we've got lots in common i'm going

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to dig through all of this alex wind the clock back though i'd love to know so dad was like mate

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get into the stock market how did he know about the stock market and what were you guys investing

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in at the time and what kind of analysis were you doing on on different things yeah so he

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i think so when my dad was in probably about my age he basically started investing his own money

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when not many people would do that most people were like trusting

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financial advisors yeah yeah and he he just started doing it i don't actually know why

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um but he eventually i can't exactly remember the story but um he got some payout or something that

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went into his pension and it was one of those schemes where you get a big payout and it goes

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into a pension scheme and he decided to take it for himself to manage rather than letting it touch

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this scheme and he invested all the money himself and i think it was probably one of the best

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decisions he made um and yeah so then when i was growing up um when i was still at school he just

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sort of thought that i might be interested in it so i started talking to me about it

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showed me a few things and it wasn't investing in any individual companies um it was just

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um what they called it's been such a long time ago since i've invested in the stock market i'm

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kind of forgetting it all but uh i think his main thing like passive passive investing like

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investing in indexes and things like that yeah no so it wasn't that it was um investment trusts

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so they're actively managed but not um not open-ended funds okay um so yeah and it was

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just basically finding winners in the uk mainly so there are a couple uh i mean in a way though

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it doesn't really matter what that specific use case was to be honest if you can't remember don't

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don't stress it's more just like getting a flavor for things it's like oh okay this is something you

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could point your energy and attention at um and then how it evolves because like the idea of a

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landscape architect who's investing it's like that's fucking niche but there's probably a lot

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of landscape architects out there but how many of them on the side are thinking about these other

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areas that you had an interest in and i always love that how we don't really realize but we're

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all extremely unique because we all have these different life experiences that blend together

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to make us who we are.

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And we're all totally different.

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What I love doing is learning from them.

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And to only be 30 now is great

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in that you've already figured all this stuff out.

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There'll be people in their 40s and 50s

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that haven't asked the simple questions

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that you've been able to ask.

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And that's why I also always say

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that information travels unfairly through markets.

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Like we are bloody lucky

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to be having this conversation right now

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in the knowledge that actually

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you don't need to invest in investment trusts any longer.

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You don't have to take the counterparty risk.

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You don't have to trust a financial advisor.

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You don't even need a pension fund.

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You just got to just buy some of the stuff called Bitcoin.

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100%.

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Another thing that you mentioned, Alex,

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that I'd love to chime off though is then,

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so you mentioned, you had this point where you're like,

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oh, I've been lied to.

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what what are you referring to when you you reference that and how did it feel

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well it's it's one of those things it's it's one small part so i kind of

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bit learning about bitcoin taught me about money and i didn't i didn't understand money

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i then read um lynn olden's book broken money yeah it's brilliant yeah great book and

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it's just going through all of that makes you realize how much you don't know and i've always

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been one of those people that i was an infuriating child at school because

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i wouldn't get into massive trouble but if i didn't understand the logic behind a rule

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i wouldn't i wouldn't follow it so i was just always questioning stuff and if i could understand

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how it works then sure that makes sense i'll do that but like i was constantly being told to tuck

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my shirt in or something like that it's like but but why what why does it make any difference to you

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that doesn't make any sense to me and and then it's kind of the same sort of because i've had

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that sort of mentality to things i've always kind of questioned a lot of things and then

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learning about money seeing that everything that you've sort of been spoon-fed isn't actually the

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case and that actually questioning things is the the best thing to do to understand how things work

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and so yeah i'm kind of rambling but that realization with money sort of started breaking

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everything else down and it's like okay how does everything else work so the money isn't what we've

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been told it was and then that's made me think about everything else so i'm now questioning food

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and like most bitcoiners do it's like okay just because the food is sold in the supermarket

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on the food shelf that doesn't mean it's actually food it's probably 90 plastic or something like

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that i mean obviously that's not the case but i mean it's not too far wrong with all the chemicals

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they put in and it's just you just believe that the people in charge have your best interests at

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heart and for me learning about bitcoin and then realizing how the world actually works

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was that sort of complete breakdown in my trust in all systems yeah hang on a second so

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if the money's not true what else do i know that someone wants me to know

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yeah or why or the simple question like why do i know what i know like how how how conditioned am i

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and you don't we'll probably never have an answer in some ways but um i'd love to hear more about

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what like specifically what was it about money that you didn't understand like some of the real

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kind of aha moments where you're like oh that actually doesn't make that i'm not tucking my

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shirt in here mate that doesn't make sense yeah so i was always um i was always a saver when i was

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when I was younger,

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I was always really good at saving money.

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And I understood interest

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and that the banks pay you interest or whatever.

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But I never understood any of the intricacies about it.

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So understanding that the bank doesn't own your money,

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you deposit cash into the bank

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and they don't actually have it.

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That was a huge moment.

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It's like, well, okay.

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Because I just assumed that they take your money,

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they maybe lend it out.

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and then because of that they can generate a return for you.

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But that's not the case.

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They just create infinite amounts of money whenever they want.

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So that was a big one.

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Oh, what else?

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Understanding that money needs certain properties

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to make it have any value.

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And I didn't know about the gold standard

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until learning about Bitcoin.

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so all of that was just a huge rabbit hole as well learning about gold and its scarcity properties

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and coming off the gold standard and how that we're all just using paper money that is created

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out thinner and it is it is an extraordinary lie in many ways yeah you're being paid in this paper

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that's valuable but why and i remember going once i'd sort of become a crazy bitcoiner i would go

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into my day job and and obviously talk about your landscape out mate come on yeah i was i was trying

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to like tell everyone you heard about this thing called bitcoin everyone's just looking at me like

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you are just mental and i'm like but if you just dollar cost average like a tiny bit blah blah blah

219
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blah blah and uh i just remember getting a comment back like i'll stick to my real money thanks and i

220
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just thought yeah well this is exactly it this i was that person and we just need to try and get

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more people to realize this the huge ponzi scheme that we're all a part of but somehow that's where

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um podcasts you already touched on this like that's where the conferences are just so powerful

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as an experience because you you run down this rabbit hole and you're like oh my god there's

224
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other people talking about this stuff and you can find them online in the depths of god knows where

225
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but you can find them and then you go to a physical event and you're like oh my god these are probably

226
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some of the most positive fittest smartest people i've ever seen in one room and there's a very

227
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healthy appetite for risk for let's say not tucking the shirt in and going well what are

228
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you talking about like why would i do that um and i it's taught me so much as well whoa and so as a

229
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yeah landscape architect i think i'd put that into the bracket of an interesting business in

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the sense that people are always going to need that service so if you were a landscape architect

231
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and you did get into Bitcoin,

232
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one of the better approaches is often actually continue

233
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with your area of expertise and DCA.

234
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So out of interest, were you just like,

235
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I have to work in this thing full time.

236
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I'm not interested in landscape architecture at all.

237
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Because most people that I meet,

238
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when they fall down the Bitcoin rabbit hole,

239
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there's not a huge amount of disposable capital

240
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sitting around to like reallocate supposedly.

241
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It's just that every month I get paid.

242
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It's like, okay, well, every Monday,

243
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just pump as much into Bitcoin as you can.

244
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And I now know, I can think on the top of my head,

245
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like four or five characters that I met at Bitcoin meetups

246
00:21:00,460 --> 00:21:02,860
now five years ago who were accountants

247
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or engineers of some form, electricians,

248
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and they're now working for themselves,

249
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either traveling or setting up their own things

250
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because they DCA'd in Bitcoin for a cycle and a half.

251
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It works, essentially.

252
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Yeah, you just were fed up as a landscape architect, perhaps?

253
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because I still think that's a very valid strategy.

254
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,100
So continue doing what you're doing,

255
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but incorporate Bitcoin into that

256
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:28,760
and your options grow essentially.

257
00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:30,260
Yeah, definitely.

258
00:21:30,820 --> 00:21:33,400
If I was passionate about that industry,

259
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I probably would have stayed.

260
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But it was one of those things.

261
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I was just, I never enjoyed it.

262
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Every, I was always just sort of turning up

263
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because I didn't know what else.

264
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Good on you for recognizing that though,

265
00:21:50,060 --> 00:21:55,540
because also like a lot of people don't they'll just continue in autopilot yeah but i mean i was

266
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constantly looking over the years like what is my exit strategy from this and i just couldn't work

267
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it out and yeah bitcoin just sort of it was a bit of an accident really because i just started

268
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making videos about it because obviously i was making videos about investing and then i felt

269
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like a complete fraud to carry on making videos about investing so obviously everything just

270
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turned bitcoin focused and then i met a bunch of really interesting people and made some really

271
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good connections just from doing that and so it it almost seemed like a mistake to not give up my previous job because I was ending up You were wasting your time

272
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Yeah. And I was able to network and meet loads of other people and actually build some really

273
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good connections. And I just thought it was a good opportunity to move at the time that I did.

274
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And yeah, it's one of those things I always think if I was passionate about a nine to five job versus starting a business, you'd probably be better off just sticking at the nine to five job unless you are really certain on your business.

275
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Because if you're just stacking Bitcoin, you're probably going to do very well over a five year period.

276
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but the risk of starting a business in this economy is yeah the odds are pretty against you

277
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especially in the uk um so i kind of agree with what you're saying it's yeah there's nothing wrong

278
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with sticking to a nine-to-five just for me it was it was just uh too much really well and that's

279
00:23:41,434 --> 00:23:47,474
the fun bit right it's it's your life you do whatever the fuck you want and basically anyone

280
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that ever gives you advice is giving you advice based on what worked for them and there's absolutely

281
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no reason that it will work for you it just happened to work for them yeah so as much as i i

282
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sometimes i love a good business book protect in particular like a good biography or whatever

283
00:24:05,914 --> 00:24:11,554
like how did that person and that business become what it is today and you can go and read about it

284
00:24:11,554 --> 00:24:16,794
and you're like oh interesting like a great book i read from an investing perspective recently

285
00:24:16,794 --> 00:24:20,554
was around the founder of SoftBank.

286
00:24:21,414 --> 00:24:23,234
And basically Korean migrant in Japan

287
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builds this massive tech business

288
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and ends up funding some crazy bets

289
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with the $100 billion VC fund that they set up.

290
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And it was full of like Saudi investors

291
00:24:38,574 --> 00:24:39,414
and just mental,

292
00:24:39,554 --> 00:24:41,434
like how do you get into that position?

293
00:24:44,054 --> 00:24:45,314
And people do, right?

294
00:24:45,314 --> 00:24:47,354
they just take different step, different step, different step.

295
00:24:47,394 --> 00:24:51,314
And what they would recommend to you to do isn't necessarily right for your

296
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personal situation.

297
00:24:52,554 --> 00:24:55,194
And so making that call for yourself is always the key.

298
00:24:57,594 --> 00:24:59,074
Yeah, so great.

299
00:24:59,134 --> 00:25:01,914
So getting out of that done, making videos,

300
00:25:02,234 --> 00:25:04,334
and this is something that I'm really passionate about too.

301
00:25:05,334 --> 00:25:05,694
In fact,

302
00:25:05,714 --> 00:25:09,174
we probably wouldn't be talking if we weren't both quote unquote content

303
00:25:09,174 --> 00:25:09,714
creators.

304
00:25:10,434 --> 00:25:13,634
So, and I like to think of it as being your own brand,

305
00:25:13,634 --> 00:25:19,914
that there is literally no reason to stop anyone from putting content out like if you've got a

306
00:25:19,914 --> 00:25:24,854
mobile phone you can make a video and you can post it and there's obviously tons of nuance to like

307
00:25:24,854 --> 00:25:31,134
how you do it and where you do it and what your strategy might be but um what you why did you start

308
00:25:31,134 --> 00:25:35,754
creating content in the first place and when i had a flick through a youtube channel recently

309
00:25:35,754 --> 00:25:41,934
it was so interesting that you had videos that were like five six years old but had nothing to

310
00:25:41,934 --> 00:25:46,814
do with Bitcoin at all and then obviously Bitcoin's become a big part of the journey you've been on

311
00:25:46,814 --> 00:25:52,954
and in some ways it's a really nice um kind of rear view mirror on the proof of work that you've

312
00:25:52,954 --> 00:25:59,714
been through so why did you start making content and um you know what's the fun part of it for you

313
00:25:59,714 --> 00:26:09,694
yeah so I actually made videos when I was at school when I was like 14 15 16 me and my friends

314
00:26:09,694 --> 00:26:19,174
used to make gaming videos and it yeah um it was kind of fun though I kind of felt like a little

315
00:26:19,174 --> 00:26:27,054
entrepreneur because the whole goal was try and get monetized on YouTube and we ended up making

316
00:26:27,054 --> 00:26:35,374
making a video that got like 800,000 views which at the time was wow was huge and um but then I

317
00:26:35,374 --> 00:26:42,034
kind of was like i'm over this i'm going to uni i'm growing up and um just left it all and

318
00:26:42,034 --> 00:26:47,934
i kind of always thought it was a fun thing to do i kind of enjoyed the sort of personal

319
00:26:47,934 --> 00:26:56,434
creativity that you can have and so i kind of just wanted to do it while i was getting older

320
00:26:56,434 --> 00:27:01,894
and then just finally pulled the trigger and was like okay i might make complete garbage content

321
00:27:01,894 --> 00:27:09,514
but it's gonna i'm not gonna enjoy sitting in front of a camera but it'll be good to push

322
00:27:09,514 --> 00:27:15,574
myself out of my comfort zone um it might make me better at public speaking that might be a win

323
00:27:15,574 --> 00:27:23,334
and if all goes well um i might make some money so i kind of thought like yes it's going to be a

324
00:27:23,334 --> 00:27:28,094
lot of effort but even if it all goes horribly wrong i'm still potentially learning some skills

325
00:27:28,094 --> 00:27:38,894
and so that was kind of the rationale for it and just trying to push myself to a point where

326
00:27:38,894 --> 00:27:47,474
i'm not super comfortable and just try and create some things that um that i think will be helpful

327
00:27:47,474 --> 00:27:53,594
and educational but and they clearly have been addicts i mean some of the traction that your

328
00:27:53,594 --> 00:28:01,554
videos have got have been great plus i mean as we started the the the episode well when did you

329
00:28:01,554 --> 00:28:06,254
start working with bitcoin collective have you actually even started or you just signed uh yeah

330
00:28:06,254 --> 00:28:14,554
just the last couple of months yeah so you um do you think that opportunity would have arisen if

331
00:28:14,554 --> 00:28:20,994
you hadn't started creating content no that's the amazing thing like absolutely not and before that

332
00:28:20,994 --> 00:28:29,154
yeah like i've got a whole list of experience now that i would never have had if i didn't decide to

333
00:28:29,154 --> 00:28:37,894
make youtube videos about investing in the stock market or whatever it is and it's just crazy

334
00:28:37,894 --> 00:28:41,874
because that is literally the proof of work if you're just showing you're showing the world that

335
00:28:41,874 --> 00:28:46,934
you're committed to doing something you're putting yourself out there and people do see it eventually

336
00:28:46,934 --> 00:28:50,694
even though it feels like a long slog because I started six years ago but

337
00:28:50,694 --> 00:28:58,854
well and that is I mean six years is a long time but I think what's cool is it's six years ago

338
00:28:58,854 --> 00:29:06,354
what's the right way of saying this sometimes it's the journey not the destination yeah so

339
00:29:06,354 --> 00:29:12,974
so actually you don't necessarily need to know what the outcome has to be but just be comfortable

340
00:29:12,974 --> 00:29:14,794
and the knowledge that you're going somewhere interesting

341
00:29:14,794 --> 00:29:18,914
and you didn't even know that Bitcoin was interesting.

342
00:29:19,274 --> 00:29:21,394
You didn't know that you get a job in a Bitcoin company.

343
00:29:21,514 --> 00:29:22,674
You didn't know you'd be buying Bitcoin.

344
00:29:22,834 --> 00:29:24,214
You didn't know you'd be educating about Bitcoin,

345
00:29:24,334 --> 00:29:26,274
but you started anyway six years ago.

346
00:29:28,874 --> 00:29:33,114
Okay, so what would be some of the highlights that you've had

347
00:29:33,114 --> 00:29:37,154
in terms of experiences because of putting yourself out there

348
00:29:37,154 --> 00:29:38,434
and testing yourself?

349
00:29:38,434 --> 00:29:48,294
oh um so yeah i mean last week with um with the bitcoin collective we were at the

350
00:29:48,294 --> 00:29:55,654
uk's largest business show i think at the excel center and we had to stand there talking to

351
00:29:56,494 --> 00:30:01,574
entrepreneurs and business owners about bitcoin which is just kind of mind-blowing

352
00:30:01,574 --> 00:30:10,454
and a few weeks before that i was invited by bitcoin policy uk to go and help them in in

353
00:30:10,454 --> 00:30:16,394
liverpool at the labor party conference which again just completely bizarre thing for me it's

354
00:30:16,394 --> 00:30:24,254
like why am i being invited to this i'm not really political but this is really important work that

355
00:30:24,254 --> 00:30:32,974
and yeah i'm i'm helping and it's a great thing to be a part of and just jumping into all sorts of

356
00:30:32,974 --> 00:30:39,814
strange pools of and networks interesting so so talk to me about that as an experience then so

357
00:30:39,814 --> 00:30:47,174
the labor party conference is an annual get together of labor party followers or what even

358
00:30:47,174 --> 00:30:53,574
is it and and the big and explain as well what bitcoin policy uk do and i'd be intrigued as to

359
00:30:53,574 --> 00:30:58,514
how they're funded because it's very interesting to have i mean here and here in australia just

360
00:30:58,514 --> 00:31:02,574
give you a brief bit of context of why i'm interested in this is the australian bitcoin

361
00:31:02,574 --> 00:31:08,414
industry body that i know some of the guys that run that it's essentially a uh a spokes

362
00:31:08,414 --> 00:31:14,174
person for the bitcoin industry in australia so there's bitcoin exchanges here there's you know

363
00:31:14,174 --> 00:31:19,634
bitcoin wallets here and there's all sorts of stuff going on um but it's a kind of you know

364
00:31:19,634 --> 00:31:27,254
there's a board, there's a chairman, there's a strategy behind, like, you know,

365
00:31:27,694 --> 00:31:30,874
commenting on different policy that's coming out of the Australian government, etc.

366
00:31:31,074 --> 00:31:32,674
So, yeah, interesting.

367
00:31:32,814 --> 00:31:36,774
Keep talking about the Labour Conference and also what Bitcoin Policy UK do.

368
00:31:37,774 --> 00:31:38,854
Yeah, so I think it's similar.

369
00:31:38,854 --> 00:31:43,874
So it's a think tank, I think is the phrase.

370
00:31:43,874 --> 00:31:47,914
but they're all basically volunteers

371
00:31:47,914 --> 00:31:51,754
and just basically trying to

372
00:31:51,754 --> 00:31:55,334
ensure that the UK government

373
00:31:55,334 --> 00:31:57,794
puts in better policy for Bitcoin

374
00:31:57,794 --> 00:32:02,294
and they write letters to the MPs

375
00:32:02,294 --> 00:32:06,414
and try and just help boost the

376
00:32:06,414 --> 00:32:07,854
what's the word?

377
00:32:08,074 --> 00:32:09,214
I'm kind of losing my train of thought

378
00:32:09,214 --> 00:32:12,074
it would be to

379
00:32:12,074 --> 00:32:16,934
to ensure that the Bitcoin network

380
00:32:16,934 --> 00:32:20,014
has a official and professional voice

381
00:32:20,014 --> 00:32:22,954
when discussing politics

382
00:32:22,954 --> 00:32:24,574
or policy

383
00:32:24,574 --> 00:32:26,874
what laws are you creating

384
00:32:26,874 --> 00:32:29,054
how does that impact the Bitcoin industry

385
00:32:29,054 --> 00:32:31,714
and it's fascinating

386
00:32:31,714 --> 00:32:34,374
Bitcoin doesn't have a marketing department

387
00:32:34,374 --> 00:32:37,234
if we were crypto podcasters

388
00:32:37,234 --> 00:32:47,114
We'll be being paid shit tons to promote whatever token that said crypto business had created and was pumping wherever they're pumping it.

389
00:32:47,754 --> 00:32:59,094
And the incentive is to ignore the design of the crypto token and to just spout whatever nonsense they're asking you to talk about in favor of being paid.

390
00:32:59,734 --> 00:33:01,154
Bitcoin can't do that.

391
00:33:01,154 --> 00:33:05,554
Like there is no way of paying a policy think tank to go to the UK government

392
00:33:05,554 --> 00:33:09,334
and say, guys, go and lobby them and say,

393
00:33:09,534 --> 00:33:11,914
we think that your new rules are a load of bullshit.

394
00:33:12,874 --> 00:33:16,974
And that's why it's so crazy when you see things like Ripple in Washington,

395
00:33:17,134 --> 00:33:18,514
DC doing whatever they're doing.

396
00:33:18,814 --> 00:33:20,354
It's just nuts.

397
00:33:20,454 --> 00:33:21,954
You start peeling away those layers.

398
00:33:22,154 --> 00:33:27,334
But it's really cool to see how it can be like totally free market, right?

399
00:33:27,454 --> 00:33:28,574
It's a think tank.

400
00:33:28,674 --> 00:33:29,534
It's self-funded.

401
00:33:29,534 --> 00:33:38,594
there's volunteers and they're promoting a uh an algorithm slash protocol for money how cool is that

402
00:33:38,594 --> 00:33:45,934
yeah and so at a conference for a political party i mean basically i imagine that's just one massive

403
00:33:45,934 --> 00:33:52,454
donations spin-up they're basically just trying to get funding from people

404
00:33:52,454 --> 00:34:00,494
yeah so it's an annual event i think all of the major political parties do them

405
00:34:00,494 --> 00:34:10,914
um but it's just all the mps and politicians give speeches and a lot that it's like a trade show in

406
00:34:10,914 --> 00:34:16,854
a way so there's lots of stands set up of businesses basically trying to lobby the politicians

407
00:34:16,854 --> 00:34:21,634
in one way or another, trying to get funding for their projects

408
00:34:21,634 --> 00:34:26,774
or trying to change policy and just try and talk to the right people

409
00:34:26,774 --> 00:34:28,734
who they think might be able to make a difference.

410
00:34:29,494 --> 00:34:31,874
And so I guess that's kind of exactly the same as what we were doing,

411
00:34:32,814 --> 00:34:37,054
just hoping and trying to speak to people within the government,

412
00:34:37,794 --> 00:34:41,374
the active government, who might be able to take Bitcoin a bit more seriously

413
00:34:41,374 --> 00:34:49,154
and at least listen, open their ears and hear what we have to say rather than just,

414
00:34:49,274 --> 00:34:50,394
I mean, you mentioned Ripple.

415
00:34:50,394 --> 00:34:57,534
I think last week there was, I think, one of the politicians who's there at the moment

416
00:34:57,534 --> 00:35:01,934
was meeting Ripple last week in Asia somewhere.

417
00:35:02,354 --> 00:35:09,234
And it's just like Bitcoin Policy UK have reached out to that specific person so many times

418
00:35:09,234 --> 00:35:16,554
and got no response and it seems that the ripple just sort of chucks the money at her and she's

419
00:35:16,554 --> 00:35:21,974
like okay cool i'll listen we're now pushing forward innovation and payments it's like no

420
00:35:21,974 --> 00:35:26,734
but i mean talk about like tucking your shirt in it's like that's that's bullshit everyone knows

421
00:35:26,734 --> 00:35:33,414
it's bullshit come on yeah um and so when you're at that stand like interesting so did anyone pay

422
00:35:33,414 --> 00:35:38,274
any attention or was it like this huge conference and like just no one's even talking to the bitcoin

423
00:35:38,274 --> 00:35:44,834
guys yeah no actually it was quite a busy stand there were lots of volunteers there um

424
00:35:44,834 --> 00:35:51,274
and so we had a very busy stand because there were lots of of us there and i think because of

425
00:35:51,274 --> 00:35:57,774
that lots of people coming up and they would see the words bitcoin thing bitcoin and there were

426
00:35:57,774 --> 00:36:02,634
kind of a few scenarios it'd be like i do not like bitcoin so i'm going to go tell them that

427
00:36:02,634 --> 00:36:07,454
i don't like bitcoin and i'm going to go argue with them and tell them that they shouldn't be

428
00:36:07,454 --> 00:36:11,094
here and shouldn't be talking about bitcoin because i know someone that's been scammed

429
00:36:11,094 --> 00:36:17,414
by bitcoin that's usually what they're saying and uh then there are some people that are secretly

430
00:36:17,414 --> 00:36:22,854
curious and like oh yeah can i i'm from one of the other stands and i run a business and can i

431
00:36:22,854 --> 00:36:28,014
secretly talk to you and i'll take off my shirt just so look you can't see it in my logo yeah

432
00:36:28,014 --> 00:36:34,594
yeah exactly and there are quite a few of those and then there were just some people that seemed

433
00:36:34,594 --> 00:36:41,714
interested that just didn't really know much about it and then it's a real mix but overall

434
00:36:41,714 --> 00:36:45,954
the reception was really positive which i personally was quite surprised about

435
00:36:45,954 --> 00:36:52,134
because i thought it was going to be just very very negative yeah you're going to the lion's

436
00:36:52,134 --> 00:36:57,934
den in a sense it's that it's that obvious misalignment of incentive

437
00:36:57,934 --> 00:37:05,954
in that the reason that Keynesianism has been so popular

438
00:37:05,954 --> 00:37:11,474
is because monetary policy makers and political scientists

439
00:37:11,474 --> 00:37:13,134
have been able to jump into bed together

440
00:37:13,134 --> 00:37:17,734
and fund each other's central planning, basically.

441
00:37:18,134 --> 00:37:20,614
It's like, you scratch my back, I'll scratch your back,

442
00:37:20,674 --> 00:37:23,234
and we can sell it to everyone for their greater good,

443
00:37:23,694 --> 00:37:26,114
and we'll socialize the losses on the back end.

444
00:37:26,114 --> 00:37:32,614
and and it's even even that phrase socializing the losses like when i first heard that i was like

445
00:37:32,614 --> 00:37:36,354
what that's like one of those things you touched on i think probably it's like you're listening to

446
00:37:36,354 --> 00:37:41,994
podcasts you're you're feverish in terms of your your your consumption of this information around

447
00:37:41,994 --> 00:37:47,154
this subject what is money and it's like oh inflation is a stealth tax you know the first

448
00:37:47,154 --> 00:37:54,454
time you hear that you're like what what are you talking about no inflation is good inflation is how

449
00:37:54,454 --> 00:37:59,554
the central bank keeps the whole economy going you've got to have about two percent and you find

450
00:37:59,554 --> 00:38:04,814
yourself like literally repeating the shit that you were told and i you know wrote in a macroeconomics

451
00:38:04,814 --> 00:38:11,614
exam at uni but who told you that well the guy that's getting paid by the bloke that prints the

452
00:38:11,614 --> 00:38:19,594
money hello and so i i wonder when going to conferences like that

453
00:38:19,594 --> 00:38:26,834
you know how seriously can they really take bitcoin and it's that process of like on the

454
00:38:26,834 --> 00:38:33,014
one hand they just don't understand it and if it took you and i multiple years of getting a bunch

455
00:38:33,014 --> 00:38:40,574
of things together and realizing oh this is valuable then the average 60 year old labor mp

456
00:38:40,574 --> 00:38:46,554
has got absolutely no idea what bitcoin is in terms of the threat to their funding

457
00:38:46,554 --> 00:38:50,274
that they don't understand that it's going to obsolete central banks

458
00:38:50,274 --> 00:38:54,014
and therefore it's going to drastically reduce how government funds itself.

459
00:38:55,634 --> 00:38:59,354
But also they'll be so skeptical straight away, right?

460
00:38:59,454 --> 00:39:00,294
It's something new.

461
00:39:00,414 --> 00:39:01,534
It's like, this isn't interesting.

462
00:39:03,494 --> 00:39:03,714
Yeah.

463
00:39:03,974 --> 00:39:04,414
Okay.

464
00:39:04,534 --> 00:39:09,534
So was there anyone at that conference then that was of any importance,

465
00:39:09,534 --> 00:39:10,134
do you think?

466
00:39:10,254 --> 00:39:12,314
Or was it just punters just coming and having a chat?

467
00:39:12,314 --> 00:39:17,634
because like how high can bitcoin get in conversations in government do we think like

468
00:39:17,634 --> 00:39:26,514
you know the uk government's as broke as anyone else yeah i think from i mean i wasn't

469
00:39:26,514 --> 00:39:32,974
able to see what everyone was doing all the time but um yeah sure from my experience it seemed like

470
00:39:32,974 --> 00:39:39,714
it was not really people with a lot of say and there were some mps that came and had a picture

471
00:39:39,714 --> 00:39:44,994
with the stand but it seemed like they were being sort of led around by their assistant like right

472
00:39:44,994 --> 00:39:50,694
we need to go get a picture here here and they're sort of just like oh my gosh yeah like politics

473
00:39:50,694 --> 00:39:58,814
wow yeah yeah and so it's more just everyday people really that we were talking to i felt like

474
00:39:58,814 --> 00:40:09,314
um but yeah it's funny because the whole ethos of labor is or was like socialist whereas

475
00:40:09,714 --> 00:40:11,594
Bitcoin is almost the complete opposite.

476
00:40:13,034 --> 00:40:15,014
Everything you get in Bitcoin world,

477
00:40:15,194 --> 00:40:18,274
you have to put in work for and nothing's redistributed.

478
00:40:18,274 --> 00:40:23,434
So it's complete opposite to the sort of ethos.

479
00:40:24,114 --> 00:40:28,934
And yeah, so like it's an uphill battle,

480
00:40:29,434 --> 00:40:33,634
definitely speaking to the Labour Party for sure.

481
00:40:35,874 --> 00:40:36,614
Very cool.

482
00:40:37,094 --> 00:40:38,974
And so Alex, so in the months to come then,

483
00:40:38,974 --> 00:40:46,934
And are you, is the Bitcoin Collective like specifically asking you to go out and create content on their behalf?

484
00:40:46,994 --> 00:40:50,834
Or is it something that you're just going to continue to do off your own bat?

485
00:40:50,914 --> 00:40:52,594
Like what are your plans in terms of that?

486
00:40:54,094 --> 00:40:56,934
No, so content wise, that's all separate.

487
00:40:57,594 --> 00:41:05,134
I'm just sort of joining the team to help try and build out the things that we're working on.

488
00:41:05,134 --> 00:41:14,054
um but yeah content wise i just need to try and get my ass in gear and keep pushing it out because

489
00:41:14,054 --> 00:41:19,294
that's the struggle just trying to manage it and as i'm sure you're aware it's just difficult to

490
00:41:19,294 --> 00:41:26,114
try and keep it all going with content because you put out one thing one week but then you've

491
00:41:26,114 --> 00:41:31,574
got to just keep it keep it all going keep the flywheel going well yeah i mean i must confess

492
00:41:31,574 --> 00:41:38,874
in in my experience lately i've made a big change in how i'm doing it um so when i launched my

493
00:41:38,874 --> 00:41:45,094
latest podcast in january i came kind of flying out the gates hired a guy as a producer hired a

494
00:41:45,094 --> 00:41:51,674
guy as an editor which helped hugely to increase the volume of content i was able to get out

495
00:41:51,674 --> 00:42:01,014
but i made a mistake in that i didn't have a um a revenue plan in place necessarily and so

496
00:42:01,014 --> 00:42:04,954
suddenly 10 months in I was like I'm carrying all this cost each month which is essentially

497
00:42:04,954 --> 00:42:12,454
potential bitcoin um why and when I started looking seriously at like different revenue options

498
00:42:12,454 --> 00:42:16,874
audience wasn't nearly big enough to sell a sponsorship contract of any meaningful amount

499
00:42:16,874 --> 00:42:23,074
and I'm very dubious of sponsorship contracts in general because you're like who are these

500
00:42:23,074 --> 00:42:28,874
companies like what are they actually doing and I I know and I won't mention who any of these people

501
00:42:28,874 --> 00:42:33,574
blah blah I've had conversations with other people who are already podcasting with successful channels

502
00:42:33,574 --> 00:42:38,294
and they're promoting businesses that they don't like but they've got contracts in place with them

503
00:42:38,294 --> 00:42:43,534
and that's how the show works right you've got an advertising contract it's like okay

504
00:42:43,534 --> 00:42:49,674
that doesn't make sense to me and I didn't want to then equally go and create a a big coaching

505
00:42:49,674 --> 00:42:55,314
program because I actually spend most of my day homeschooling my kids I just don't have the time

506
00:42:55,314 --> 00:42:58,274
to commit to 20 grand's worth of coaching for someone

507
00:42:58,274 --> 00:43:00,334
because you've got to fulfill this thing.

508
00:43:00,434 --> 00:43:01,674
I'm like, shit, Jake,

509
00:43:01,734 --> 00:43:03,874
you've really dug yourself a hole here, mate.

510
00:43:04,454 --> 00:43:05,954
How are you going to get out of this?

511
00:43:06,054 --> 00:43:09,154
And so I decided to go very lean

512
00:43:09,154 --> 00:43:12,054
and really home in on what I care about,

513
00:43:12,134 --> 00:43:14,654
which is then another problem in this space,

514
00:43:14,694 --> 00:43:15,854
which is the platform risk.

515
00:43:16,454 --> 00:43:18,094
And so this podcast, for example,

516
00:43:18,094 --> 00:43:21,074
will only go out on RSS feeds and on NOSTA.

517
00:43:21,754 --> 00:43:24,374
And I'm not even bothering with YouTube or X

518
00:43:24,374 --> 00:43:26,354
or Instagram or anything going forwards,

519
00:43:27,074 --> 00:43:29,254
which I'm actually really excited about.

520
00:43:29,414 --> 00:43:34,634
It doesn't make any sense to a traditional content lens,

521
00:43:34,634 --> 00:43:36,314
which would be like just as many eyeballs

522
00:43:36,314 --> 00:43:39,994
as you can possibly get and then sell sponsor contracts.

523
00:43:41,134 --> 00:43:43,054
But I think it'll be more fun for me.

524
00:43:43,394 --> 00:43:44,234
And that's basically just,

525
00:43:44,314 --> 00:43:45,614
I'll be doing a conversation a week

526
00:43:45,614 --> 00:43:48,214
that I produce and publish myself.

527
00:43:48,474 --> 00:43:50,214
And that way it should be easier

528
00:43:50,214 --> 00:43:53,334
to keep the momentum going.

529
00:43:53,334 --> 00:43:55,294
because I always get burnt out.

530
00:43:55,714 --> 00:43:58,674
Like the YouTube algorithm is a hungry bitch.

531
00:43:59,194 --> 00:44:02,134
And it's like, you know, one video is gone.

532
00:44:02,334 --> 00:44:03,414
Next, next, next.

533
00:44:03,934 --> 00:44:05,894
And I guess I personally reached a point.

534
00:44:05,954 --> 00:44:06,994
It's like, why am I doing this?

535
00:44:07,434 --> 00:44:08,634
I want to do it to have fun,

536
00:44:08,714 --> 00:44:12,274
to have interesting and sophisticated conversations.

537
00:44:12,274 --> 00:44:15,154
I don't want to do it so that YouTube wins.

538
00:44:16,934 --> 00:44:19,634
So, yeah, I mean, does any of that resonate at all?

539
00:44:20,254 --> 00:44:23,014
Maybe you should make a long form podcast, Alex.

540
00:44:23,334 --> 00:44:30,754
yeah possibly i've thought about it but i'm i'm always worried about just trying to spin too many

541
00:44:30,754 --> 00:44:35,294
plates at one time absolutely and you wouldn't want to do that i wouldn't suggest that yeah

542
00:44:35,294 --> 00:44:43,494
yeah but i think that's really cool that you're doing it all on nosda because ultimately that

543
00:44:43,494 --> 00:44:49,954
that's feeding into what you believe in and the world that you want to live in i assume and

544
00:44:50,134 --> 00:44:50,494
Absolutely.

545
00:44:50,754 --> 00:44:51,014
Yes.

546
00:44:51,834 --> 00:44:52,094
Yeah.

547
00:44:52,214 --> 00:44:52,754
And it's just,

548
00:44:52,814 --> 00:44:56,074
if you're sticking to the mainstream platforms,

549
00:44:56,194 --> 00:44:57,314
you're just feeding it.

550
00:44:58,194 --> 00:45:00,734
And like,

551
00:45:00,774 --> 00:45:03,554
ultimately we're all losing if we keep these things alive.

552
00:45:04,354 --> 00:45:04,934
Like YouTube is,

553
00:45:05,814 --> 00:45:05,994
yeah.

554
00:45:05,994 --> 00:45:06,354
Like you said,

555
00:45:06,374 --> 00:45:07,834
the algorithm is just ridiculous.

556
00:45:08,694 --> 00:45:08,914
It's,

557
00:45:09,034 --> 00:45:21,729
I think it changed recently because it used to be very different from my experience And now it like it doesn really matter if you have a following or not some videos will just do really well some

558
00:45:21,729 --> 00:45:30,829
videos will do terribly and yeah trying to navigate all of that and it just takes you away

559
00:45:30,829 --> 00:45:35,189
from the reason you were doing it in the first place which is to create something that you think

560
00:45:35,189 --> 00:45:40,649
is important and interesting yeah that was what I think annoyed me the most actually was you you

561
00:45:40,649 --> 00:45:46,649
I found that I'd suddenly got myself to a place where I was I was trying to win the game

562
00:45:46,649 --> 00:45:52,949
the algorithm game I said no Jake that's not why you started this process and I'd also wrapped it

563
00:45:52,949 --> 00:45:58,029
up in this whole like oh you can build a massive business out of this you might be able to on a

564
00:45:58,029 --> 00:46:05,069
long enough time horizon but that wasn't again that wasn't why I started it so um yeah it's it's

565
00:46:05,069 --> 00:46:11,149
funny that isn't it so and just to to ask some more detail on how you create your videos Alex

566
00:46:11,149 --> 00:46:16,909
because I really enjoyed some of the ones that I've watched like are using AI for example like

567
00:46:16,909 --> 00:46:24,529
helping to write scripts and do better hooks and titles and do you do do you just riff about what

568
00:46:24,529 --> 00:46:27,949
you're finding interesting or like how do you structure your episodes and things like that

569
00:46:27,949 --> 00:46:35,849
yeah i don't use ai as much as i should um i'm uh i don't think that's a bad thing by the way

570
00:46:35,849 --> 00:46:44,089
yeah people know or to my experience you can tell right i started getting for example emails

571
00:46:44,089 --> 00:46:50,509
from random addresses which really detail about like content that i've put out in the past

572
00:46:50,509 --> 00:46:55,749
but there's just no way it wasn't written by computer oh yeah yeah i mean it's like no you

573
00:46:55,749 --> 00:47:01,369
didn't go and read that on on my article or listen do you know what I mean so I think in some ways

574
00:47:01,369 --> 00:47:09,609
it's not a bad thing um so do you do script at all though or how do you do it yeah so I'm a massive

575
00:47:09,609 --> 00:47:17,649
victim of my own frugality like I really struggle spending money on anything so I do everything

576
00:47:17,649 --> 00:47:26,789
myself and cool i use a little bit of uh ai for like proofreading scripts and how are you

577
00:47:26,789 --> 00:47:34,129
structuring things and title suggestions but i pretty much pretty much come up with the ideas

578
00:47:34,129 --> 00:47:39,429
and everything myself and spend spend time scripting and everything but just sort of run

579
00:47:39,429 --> 00:47:47,149
it through almost like a spell check and just to save myself time but yeah i mean people are using

580
00:47:47,149 --> 00:47:53,769
it for basically everything like for video editing and all of that but i still use normal editing

581
00:47:53,769 --> 00:48:00,169
software which i've tried to like um test out which is actually faster and i found that going

582
00:48:00,169 --> 00:48:08,849
the traditional method made no difference to my my time um but yeah always that strange fear

583
00:48:08,849 --> 00:48:16,469
though isn't there an extent like okay ai edit this episode for me what's it cut out yeah i don't

584
00:48:16,469 --> 00:48:26,029
know and and equally like and i could be wrong here but i don't listen to podcasts any faster

585
00:48:26,029 --> 00:48:30,989
than 1x generally speaking i don't listen to any content faster than what it's created at

586
00:48:30,989 --> 00:48:37,149
and that's because i believe that i get more from the conversation if i listen to it properly

587
00:48:37,149 --> 00:48:41,829
and you get all the context which gives you then you know if you've gone through like two three

588
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:44,909
hour long podcasts and you're like at the end they're talking about something that actually

589
00:48:44,909 --> 00:48:50,609
makes the whole thing make sense but ah that's why i've just spent all my time listening to this

590
00:48:50,609 --> 00:48:56,129
which if you overly edit things or you speed it up too much you don't catch that

591
00:48:56,129 --> 00:49:03,209
um now that opens up obviously another conversation like in the future with ai the way it's going

592
00:49:03,209 --> 00:49:09,469
every single problem you face you can within a matter of seconds ask a bespoke question for the

593
00:49:09,469 --> 00:49:15,729
problem that you're in and a solution why will you do all this passive consumption of content

594
00:49:15,729 --> 00:49:20,849
like you've already mentioned you listen to tons of podcasts to kind of upskill like we may not ever

595
00:49:20,849 --> 00:49:26,229
need to do that again so i wonder if that market demand might diminish i don't know but sorry i

596
00:49:26,229 --> 00:49:29,349
cut you off Alex you're going to say something no definitely i'm just thinking about what you're

597
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:35,269
saying so please i i sometimes get comments on my videos and it's like oh how do i do this

598
00:49:35,269 --> 00:49:39,169
in terms of how do i buy bitcoin through this blah blah blah i'm having issues with this it's

599
00:49:39,169 --> 00:49:43,769
like you don't need me to make a video you can just ask chat gpt and it'll literally give you

600
00:49:43,769 --> 00:49:51,629
the answer and it's kind of exactly that it's but i guess there is the market for it still because

601
00:49:51,629 --> 00:49:58,309
people want trust a human maybe a bit more maybe not i'm not i don't know what it is there may be

602
00:49:58,309 --> 00:50:03,069
something about just watching a video you can just switch off your brain you don't have to read

603
00:50:03,069 --> 00:50:09,529
as much and it feels easier like if i wanted to learn how to buy bitcoin for the first time

604
00:50:09,529 --> 00:50:18,269
i could ask chat gbt but i'm not i'm dyslexic so reading has never been it's never come easy to me

605
00:50:18,269 --> 00:50:23,129
so seeing a whole script of how to do it isn't going to be as easy as watching a youtube video

606
00:50:23,129 --> 00:50:31,549
where i can see someone going through it um it depends on how you learn doesn't it yeah and i'm

607
00:50:31,549 --> 00:50:36,129
very much a visual learner and i'm sure there must be lots of people out there who are similar

608
00:50:36,129 --> 00:50:44,809
yeah it's so true isn't it the the comments yeah how many of those comments could just be pumped

609
00:50:44,809 --> 00:50:51,829
into an ai and therefore you don't need to interact at the same time though i would i said

610
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:55,729
i think this is where bitcoin's an interesting one because i saw a really good post recently on

611
00:50:55,729 --> 00:51:00,589
that was a guy basically saying look bitcoin podcasts are fucking pointless bitcoin commerce

612
00:51:00,589 --> 00:51:06,769
is a fucking pointless in fact bitcoin is really just not doing very well right now um just look at

613
00:51:06,769 --> 00:51:13,289
how ai has been completely like it just they created a product they made it better they made

614
00:51:13,289 --> 00:51:17,469
it better they made it better it's now everyone's using it all the time it doesn't have a conference

615
00:51:17,469 --> 00:51:22,509
doesn't have a fucking podcast everyone's just doing it that's a fucking amazing product launch

616
00:51:22,509 --> 00:51:29,649
you're like i kind of get your point i'll push back one i get lots of value from podcasts two i

617
00:51:29,649 --> 00:51:32,349
I get people contacting me the whole time saying they've really valued my

618
00:51:32,349 --> 00:51:35,409
podcast. So good for you, mate. You can have that opinion,

619
00:51:35,569 --> 00:51:36,969
but in my opinion, you're wrong.

620
00:51:40,229 --> 00:51:43,009
So yeah, there's obviously two sides to this camp, isn't there?

621
00:51:43,049 --> 00:51:45,029
It's like the people are like, look, mate, just ask chat GPT.

622
00:51:45,389 --> 00:51:46,869
But when it comes to your money,

623
00:51:47,429 --> 00:51:52,189
you need to trust what you're doing and having someone who's already been

624
00:51:52,189 --> 00:51:54,549
through the process you want to go through is key.

625
00:51:54,849 --> 00:51:59,009
And that's why you get all of these interesting consultancy businesses in and

626
00:51:59,009 --> 00:52:03,429
around bitcoin that have popped up because it's like hang on a second i adopted bitcoin myself

627
00:52:03,429 --> 00:52:08,569
these are all the steps i went through this was shit i fucked this one up don't do that do this

628
00:52:08,569 --> 00:52:15,849
pay me a grand for four hours of work and you miss all the bullshit and it makes sense and if you fall

629
00:52:15,849 --> 00:52:19,289
too far down the rabbit hole of using ai for everything when it comes to your money you're

630
00:52:19,289 --> 00:52:23,569
basically falling into the same fiat trap as before where you're just sort of trusting that

631
00:52:23,569 --> 00:52:28,529
it's giving you the right information whereas and there's all that stuff with it hallucinating and

632
00:52:29,009 --> 00:52:34,929
things like that yeah actually this makes me think recently i did some research around

633
00:52:34,929 --> 00:52:42,849
personal finance and i i've had it on my mind for probably two or three years like a book

634
00:52:42,849 --> 00:52:47,369
i really want to write a book and i haven't done it so jake stop fucking talking about writing and

635
00:52:47,369 --> 00:52:54,329
just get on and do it is basically the situation but um amazingly all of the most popular books in

636
00:52:54,329 --> 00:53:00,189
personal finance none of them mentioned bitcoin you look the top 10 bestsellers in personal finance

637
00:53:00,189 --> 00:53:03,989
it's like literally none of them one of which i read recently which is called the psychology of

638
00:53:03,989 --> 00:53:13,609
money and their solution to the wealth problem is passive investing via index trackers and

639
00:53:13,609 --> 00:53:21,609
government bonds and you're just like that's fucking stupid look at this look at the counterparty

640
00:53:21,609 --> 00:53:28,629
risk look at the purchasing power erosion look at the real inflation rate i disagree and that's

641
00:53:28,629 --> 00:53:34,449
kind of what ai is like you know you go to ai and say how do i look after my money and it's more than

642
00:53:34,449 --> 00:53:38,229
likely going to be like okay let me scan the top 10 best sellers in personal finance oh well they're

643
00:53:38,229 --> 00:53:44,229
all talking about the 60 40 stock bond portfolio that's worked incredibly well as interest rates

644
00:53:44,229 --> 00:53:48,409
have gone down and down and down and down and down for 50 years and they printed tons of money

645
00:53:48,409 --> 00:53:54,209
but like bitcoin is still so small that there's not many people out there talking about it and i

646
00:53:54,209 --> 00:54:02,169
think that's possibly where um having not that it's a real connection but like people i i'm

647
00:54:02,169 --> 00:54:06,789
speaking for myself i have podcasts that i like i feel like i'm almost friends with some of these

648
00:54:06,789 --> 00:54:11,589
people because i've listened to hours and hours you mentioned peter mccormack for example i've

649
00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:17,169
got a tracker somewhere for every piece of bitcoin content i've been through and i met pete when he

650
00:54:17,169 --> 00:54:24,569
did the uh cheat code conference in sydney i was the mc and i went and met a bunch of people uh in

651
00:54:24,569 --> 00:54:29,829
person which was cool and in the pub after i was like let me figure it out and i said i've i've

652
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:35,649
listened to like 82 hours of what bitcoin did which i could tell from my spreadsheet and he was

653
00:54:35,649 --> 00:54:40,469
like that's not flex i was like what do you mean he's like mate i've done like 800 episodes

654
00:54:40,469 --> 00:54:49,449
fair enough and and some people have listened to all of them right and and in that sense you are

655
00:54:49,449 --> 00:54:54,969
kind of like friends with these people um so yeah okay from where i'm sitting i'm very confident

656
00:54:54,969 --> 00:55:01,189
there's a place for content with people in the future yeah no but it's a really interesting one

657
00:55:01,189 --> 00:55:05,749
isn't it that's like and that's really what bitcoin does it questions what you do with your time

658
00:55:05,749 --> 00:55:11,929
like are you pointing your attention in the right direction um and so speaking of which like so what

659
00:55:11,929 --> 00:55:16,629
what's got you most excited then about the next kind of 12 months and the the route you're now

660
00:55:16,629 --> 00:55:26,129
taking um honestly it's just really exciting to be being able to work full-time in bitcoin

661
00:55:26,129 --> 00:55:31,129
yeah cool because the first conference i went to i felt like a fraud i felt really

662
00:55:31,129 --> 00:55:35,769
odd about going to it because it's like i've not been in bitcoin for very long i don't work in

663
00:55:35,769 --> 00:55:41,849
bitcoin i'm just interested and don't really know how everything works i think at that point i didn't

664
00:55:41,849 --> 00:55:47,369
really understand what gdp meant i was like this doesn't make sense like try and make it make sense

665
00:55:47,369 --> 00:55:55,729
in my brain when was that alex that was two years ago that was cheat code yeah cool in the uk that's

666
00:55:55,729 --> 00:56:01,409
that's what's fun though is look how much progress you've made in two years yeah and but speaking to

667
00:56:01,409 --> 00:56:07,369
other bitcoiners they also have similar imposter syndrome i've from my experience and it's like

668
00:56:07,369 --> 00:56:12,029
actually we're all just people we're all just people who are interested in bitcoin it doesn't

669
00:56:12,029 --> 00:56:16,249
matter if you know how every intricate detail works it doesn't matter if you know as much as

670
00:56:16,249 --> 00:56:20,649
this person it's just we're all interested and we all look at things from different angles

671
00:56:20,649 --> 00:56:22,469
and we all have value to offer.

672
00:56:24,469 --> 00:56:24,609
Yeah.

673
00:56:25,629 --> 00:56:32,029
But yeah, I guess it's just, yeah, working on this

674
00:56:32,029 --> 00:56:34,429
with the Bitcoin Collective

675
00:56:34,429 --> 00:56:37,469
and hopefully we'll have a bull market.

676
00:56:39,769 --> 00:56:40,249
Yeah.

677
00:56:40,689 --> 00:56:42,949
I mean, that's a tricky one right now,

678
00:56:43,029 --> 00:56:44,409
the price action, fucking hell.

679
00:56:44,849 --> 00:56:45,069
Yeah.

680
00:56:45,129 --> 00:56:46,289
Which way are we going to go?

681
00:56:46,289 --> 00:56:48,389
Well, that is really a case of time will tell.

682
00:56:48,569 --> 00:56:49,449
We'll have to wait and see.

683
00:56:50,649 --> 00:56:54,849
I'm intrigued a bit more about the Bitcoin Collective because I don't know much about it until today.

684
00:56:55,569 --> 00:57:01,509
So it's essentially a consulting business that helps businesses incorporate Bitcoin.

685
00:57:06,289 --> 00:57:11,509
Yes, it's all very, very new at the moment, but it's basically educational.

686
00:57:11,509 --> 00:57:18,509
So if people want to learn about Bitcoin, it's...

687
00:57:18,509 --> 00:57:20,869
Sorry, let me try that again.

688
00:57:21,769 --> 00:57:22,169
That's all right.

689
00:57:22,669 --> 00:57:27,169
It's early in the morning, so it's struggling a little bit.

690
00:57:28,549 --> 00:57:30,929
But basically, yeah, it's educational.

691
00:57:31,209 --> 00:57:36,129
So just trying to be that point of call for businesses who are interested in Bitcoin,

692
00:57:36,229 --> 00:57:39,789
but don't know how to get it on their balance sheet,

693
00:57:39,789 --> 00:57:45,529
don't know how to how to buy it and don't know how to accept it it's just been that point of call

694
00:57:45,529 --> 00:57:53,769
and we can connect connect you with all the right places and experts nice and and it's there's a

695
00:57:53,769 --> 00:57:57,469
business side involved in here in australia as well called the bitcoin advisor for a bit

696
00:57:57,469 --> 00:58:05,709
and oh yes yeah and like bitcoin mentor in a way the the regularity with which you see a finance

697
00:58:05,709 --> 00:58:13,989
broker or a financial advisor on the high street who are punting fiat loans or one percent

698
00:58:13,989 --> 00:58:20,069
discretionary advisor type setups that is the frequency with which you will see a bitcoin

699
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:24,909
consultant in the future we're just not even close to being there yet like you're lucky to

700
00:58:24,909 --> 00:58:30,729
find like one company that's doing okay in one country let alone like every single high street

701
00:58:30,729 --> 00:58:39,689
and that that is in a sense of a reflection as to how early we actually are because basically no

702
00:58:39,689 --> 00:58:45,529
one knows what bitcoin is and you know well let's go back to talking about the price right now so

703
00:58:45,529 --> 00:58:52,549
you know dipping down under 100 000 us dollars it's now november of 2025 like the the four-year

704
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:59,969
cycle thesis is like well maybe that's been and gone right 126k us that was the top there's lots

705
00:58:59,969 --> 00:59:05,709
of people that are now selling into what they think is the bear market coming and that could

706
00:59:05,709 --> 00:59:11,729
be true but when you zoom out and you think about the fact that like every single high street is

707
00:59:11,729 --> 00:59:19,049
going to have some kind of bitcoin advisor sitting on it like you could be very wrong there and

708
00:59:19,049 --> 00:59:24,449
money printer gets switched on the whole cycle is actually pushed back to q1 q2 next year and we

709
00:59:24,449 --> 00:59:33,569
we could easily have like what's a 30 35 drawdown from 126k and it fucking rips to like two three

710
00:59:33,569 --> 00:59:39,309
times where we are today i don't know and that's the fun part of of following it but how wild is

711
00:59:39,309 --> 00:59:46,069
that to think there's there's going to be as many bitcoin consultants in the future as there are

712
00:59:46,069 --> 00:59:54,689
currently financial advisors are there though because i'm not sure i'd agree with that because

713
00:59:54,689 --> 01:00:01,049
will you need as many bitcoin advisors because some people will just it'll just be money so

714
01:00:01,049 --> 01:00:06,969
you're just holding the money you don't need great pushback you won't need if i think about

715
01:00:06,969 --> 01:00:13,249
my experience of kind of managing assets you have an annual get together with your financial advisor

716
01:00:13,249 --> 01:00:16,249
who's being paid 1% a year to allocate you into whatever.

717
01:00:16,929 --> 01:00:17,609
You're right.

718
01:00:17,769 --> 01:00:19,049
With Bitcoin, it's just money.

719
01:00:19,349 --> 01:00:20,409
So it's just savings.

720
01:00:20,829 --> 01:00:25,169
And that human is automated away, essentially.

721
01:00:25,389 --> 01:00:27,989
So the purchasing power retention is done by the algorithm,

722
01:00:28,449 --> 01:00:31,509
not by a discretionary allocator.

723
01:00:32,269 --> 01:00:35,329
But financial services, I still think will be needed.

724
01:00:35,649 --> 01:00:38,669
So people who are figuring out,

725
01:00:38,789 --> 01:00:40,549
okay, well, this is what I want to retire with,

726
01:00:40,609 --> 01:00:41,649
or this is my will,

727
01:00:41,649 --> 01:00:48,869
or you're still going to be buying and selling Bitcoin for real estate perhaps

728
01:00:48,869 --> 01:00:52,789
or for other equities perhaps, or maybe there might be something else you're doing.

729
01:00:52,949 --> 01:00:53,349
So there's that.

730
01:00:54,249 --> 01:00:55,169
Yeah, sure, actually.

731
01:00:55,429 --> 01:00:59,669
There'll be just like slightly different sets of financial services in the future, in my opinion.

732
01:01:00,029 --> 01:01:01,729
But yeah, good question in terms of volume.

733
01:01:01,989 --> 01:01:02,689
I don't know.

734
01:01:03,429 --> 01:01:07,909
One would assume that given Bitcoin, at least thus far in my experience,

735
01:01:07,909 --> 01:01:12,789
has performed better than any discretionary financial advisor could ever dream of,

736
01:01:13,449 --> 01:01:20,089
the heavy lifting will be done by Bitcoin itself for personal finance.

737
01:01:20,829 --> 01:01:25,029
And how you choose to interact with it in and around that will then be

738
01:01:25,029 --> 01:01:27,269
depending on how sophisticated you are or not,

739
01:01:27,349 --> 01:01:29,669
or equally how much Bitcoin you actually have.

740
01:01:31,289 --> 01:01:36,809
Because even within Bitcoin, you could have multi-sig, single-sig.

741
01:01:36,809 --> 01:01:42,769
you could be with a custodian you could be someone like anchor watch and pay a percent per annum and

742
01:01:42,769 --> 01:01:48,929
haven't insured or you know any nut or you could be getting collateral with someone who knows there's

743
01:01:48,929 --> 01:01:53,589
going to be tons of different ways of of allocating your bitcoin or storing your bitcoin and that will

744
01:01:53,589 --> 01:02:01,889
all require specific expertise um yeah that's the amazing thing because all these things are being

745
01:02:01,889 --> 01:02:10,389
built now and yeah i don't know how anyone can be can't be just unbelievably bullish yeah it's so

746
01:02:10,389 --> 01:02:16,709
so amazing seeing the stuff coming out and what what block and square are doing it's just that's

747
01:02:16,709 --> 01:02:26,009
cool isn't it like you can now spend dollars over bitcoin that's just yeah yeah and it's yeah so the

748
01:02:26,009 --> 01:02:32,269
merchant adoption one's a good one so the square payment terminal is used by four million merchants

749
01:02:32,269 --> 01:02:39,829
yeah i can't remember if that's a global stat or a u.s stat it's that's just u.s that's just the u.s

750
01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:45,589
interesting and so the two businesses local to me that i'm friendly with the owners of

751
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:52,549
um this was interesting actually they both use square one of them is a butcher and one of them

752
01:02:52,549 --> 01:03:01,309
a cafe and the butcher already has a wallet of satoshi bitcoin wallet set up and is very happy to

753
01:03:01,309 --> 01:03:08,149
receive bitcoin for meat which i often do but was concerned because they're already they're

754
01:03:08,149 --> 01:03:14,009
already treading a fine line with the government in terms of rearing regenerative and organic beef

755
01:03:14,009 --> 01:03:21,189
and pushing back on animal vaccinations and things what if they accept bitcoin via square

756
01:03:21,189 --> 01:03:25,929
and their accounting purposes somehow like flags them.

757
01:03:26,669 --> 01:03:31,429
And they were concerned about if I use Square's Bitcoin feature,

758
01:03:31,829 --> 01:03:35,129
will that somehow pop up with the government somewhere

759
01:03:35,129 --> 01:03:38,049
and just gives me unnecessary attention?

760
01:03:38,689 --> 01:03:43,409
So that was a really interesting point in terms of the Square merchant adoption.

761
01:03:43,629 --> 01:03:44,669
So people just were like,

762
01:03:44,709 --> 01:03:46,549
what if I get extra attention that I don't want?

763
01:03:47,369 --> 01:03:50,049
And the other one with the cafe, which is much more straightforward,

764
01:03:50,049 --> 01:03:51,729
I was like, didn't even know it happened.

765
01:03:52,989 --> 01:03:57,329
So yes, the merchant feature that they've put out

766
01:03:57,329 --> 01:04:00,029
is, in my opinion, far more exciting

767
01:04:00,029 --> 01:04:03,169
than any strategic Bitcoin reserve announcement

768
01:04:03,169 --> 01:04:04,589
that a government's making, et cetera,

769
01:04:04,669 --> 01:04:06,609
because it's genuine product development

770
01:04:06,609 --> 01:04:08,809
and access to market that wasn't there.

771
01:04:09,249 --> 01:04:11,709
But I wonder how successful it will actually be

772
01:04:11,709 --> 01:04:14,949
given those two, I admit, very anecdotal examples.

773
01:04:15,289 --> 01:04:17,569
But the Bitcoin newsreel goes wild.

774
01:04:17,569 --> 01:04:23,229
but like what actually changes well basically there's still a huge educational hurdle for

775
01:04:23,229 --> 01:04:29,749
all people involved yeah i think that's what makes the the cash app integration so

776
01:04:29,749 --> 01:04:35,649
so interesting because you can just you don't even have to own bitcoin and you can spend

777
01:04:35,649 --> 01:04:40,989
spend dollars and it gets converted to bitcoin on the merchant side can you get cash app in england

778
01:04:40,989 --> 01:04:47,549
you they they pulled out of the uk okay yeah because it's not in australia not to mind

779
01:04:47,549 --> 01:04:56,029
knowledge anyway yes and that feature is they can now pay a business you can pay a business in

780
01:04:56,029 --> 01:05:01,989
bitcoin using cash app and not having any bitcoin yourself so if your tab is 100 bucks and you've

781
01:05:01,989 --> 01:05:07,409
got 100 bucks in your cash app you can click pay in bitcoin and you send 100 cash app does the

782
01:05:07,409 --> 01:05:14,089
transfer themselves and the exchange yeah wow that's very cool isn't it and so because obviously

783
01:05:14,089 --> 01:05:21,509
jack dorsey owns both cash app have the map of where all square merchants that accept bitcoin

784
01:05:21,509 --> 01:05:27,589
are located yes so in cash app you can see where you can spend bitcoin you can go there and support

785
01:05:27,589 --> 01:05:34,889
them and convince others to get on the on the map wow if you don't have bitcoin the merchant

786
01:05:34,889 --> 01:05:41,129
say you're just a normal cash app user but you're at a bitcoin accepting merchant they could say oh

787
01:05:41,129 --> 01:05:46,669
how do you want to pay um if you pay in bitcoin slightly cheaper for us so we might give you a

788
01:05:46,669 --> 01:05:51,889
discount not sure if that's technically legal depending on where you are but obviously they

789
01:05:51,889 --> 01:05:56,189
are going to be charging it's going to be sent over lightning so it's going to be basically free

790
01:05:56,189 --> 01:06:02,489
rather than paying three five percent for your credit card networks take yeah well yeah so if

791
01:06:02,489 --> 01:06:06,449
you have cash out but you have no bitcoin you'd be like okay i'll pay over cash out then with

792
01:06:06,449 --> 01:06:11,169
bitcoin even though i don't have any bitcoin so you can get normal people spending dollars

793
01:06:11,169 --> 01:06:17,729
and the merchant accepts bitcoin and i don't know i just think like the domino effect of something

794
01:06:17,729 --> 01:06:24,589
like that could be could be huge huge yeah it makes me think actually where from what you've

795
01:06:24,589 --> 01:06:29,109
explained about the bitcoin collective this is exactly the kind of thing that you'd be good

796
01:06:29,109 --> 01:06:34,449
advisors on for people it's like okay well look really easy low-hanging fruit for any business

797
01:06:34,449 --> 01:06:36,869
is say that you accept Bitcoin,

798
01:06:37,449 --> 01:06:39,789
get yourself posted on this particular network

799
01:06:39,789 --> 01:06:42,509
and see if you get people turning up.

800
01:06:43,109 --> 01:06:45,009
Example that happened just today for me,

801
01:06:45,009 --> 01:06:48,229
actually, a shout out to Sam, who's my boxing coach.

802
01:06:48,249 --> 01:06:49,649
He's just setting up his boxing,

803
01:06:50,489 --> 01:06:52,289
physical boxing gym for the first time,

804
01:06:52,389 --> 01:06:55,749
having done it as like a roaming boxing coach

805
01:06:55,749 --> 01:06:57,669
from his car for a couple of years.

806
01:06:58,089 --> 01:07:00,689
And I'm like, you should just say on your website,

807
01:07:00,849 --> 01:07:04,109
I accept Bitcoin and sign up for whichever,

808
01:07:04,109 --> 01:07:08,209
a Bitcoin map is relevant for where we are.

809
01:07:08,569 --> 01:07:11,809
Because people who like spending Bitcoin will come to your business.

810
01:07:12,269 --> 01:07:15,869
It's like a whole marketplace of people out there that are looking to support other businesses

811
01:07:15,869 --> 01:07:19,949
that use it. And when you hear things like what you've just described with Cash App,

812
01:07:20,009 --> 01:07:23,289
that's just now just a ton more people that are looking at this stuff.

813
01:07:24,149 --> 01:07:27,929
Wow, interesting. Alex, just to take a slight change

814
01:07:27,929 --> 01:07:31,349
of direction here, I'm always interested in

815
01:07:31,349 --> 01:07:34,349
like how things feel.

816
01:07:34,349 --> 01:07:40,349
So the process of adopting sound money,

817
01:07:40,349 --> 01:07:42,349
of which Bitcoin is,

818
01:07:42,349 --> 01:08:00,483
it very clear when you start digging into the kind of economics behind why it gives you a better outlook on the future and the ability to lower your time preference and things like delayed gratification you know actually actually living

819
01:08:00,483 --> 01:08:08,183
those things like how different is your life in terms of how you feel and your future now versus

820
01:08:08,183 --> 01:08:13,083
maybe five years ago or pre-bitcoin and like first running down the rabbit hole

821
01:08:13,083 --> 01:08:20,823
yeah um have you seen the video posted by relay i don't know how you actually say it

822
01:08:20,823 --> 01:08:27,363
the swiss exchange relay i i had um had a guy from relay on what the hell was his name

823
01:08:27,363 --> 01:08:34,323
i can't remember that's so bad do you know the video i mean though it's like

824
01:08:34,323 --> 01:08:36,463
no I'm going to look it up quickly

825
01:08:36,463 --> 01:08:43,143
excuse me for a second

826
01:08:43,143 --> 01:08:45,443
I'm normally really good with names

827
01:08:45,443 --> 01:08:46,463
how can I not remember

828
01:08:46,463 --> 01:08:49,163
he had a book called crypto assets

829
01:08:49,163 --> 01:08:50,183
that I started reading

830
01:08:50,183 --> 01:08:56,683
Thomas that's right

831
01:08:56,683 --> 01:08:59,103
okay shout out to Thomas for every

832
01:08:59,103 --> 01:09:01,183
years I still haven't finished

833
01:09:01,183 --> 01:09:03,083
this book there's just too many

834
01:09:03,083 --> 01:09:09,363
to read thomas yeagers yeah he just joined as a cfo relay is probably the most interesting european

835
01:09:09,363 --> 01:09:14,963
bitcoin business i know of um i didn't invest in it or anything but it's something i looked at

836
01:09:14,963 --> 01:09:21,383
um anyway sorry so relay have a video that's what you're referring to yes they they put out a video

837
01:09:21,383 --> 01:09:28,163
in the last couple of weeks it's just a short little video on x um all created in ai i think

838
01:09:28,163 --> 01:09:33,343
but it's just like life with bitcoin and life without and it's kind of got a side by side of

839
01:09:33,343 --> 01:09:40,923
two people well the same person living the same life going to work coming home but one is with

840
01:09:40,923 --> 01:09:46,523
bitcoin one is without and the person without bitcoin is just thinking they're miserable they're

841
01:09:46,523 --> 01:09:51,243
going to work they're tired they're getting home they're thinking about bills they're working late

842
01:09:51,243 --> 01:09:55,883
because they're worried about money and they're worried about getting fired and whatever it is

843
01:09:55,883 --> 01:10:02,903
the person who's living with their sort of world backed by bitcoin just goes to work does what they

844
01:10:02,903 --> 01:10:08,763
need to do goes out goes with goes out with their friends does something fun has a nice dinner goes

845
01:10:08,763 --> 01:10:17,063
home and just i think that sums it up perfectly because it just it's not about you find bitcoin

846
01:10:17,063 --> 01:10:26,583
bitcoin and then you're rich it's just a slow mental shift where you're not constantly worried

847
01:10:26,583 --> 01:10:36,943
and stressed about money and i think that's how it's been for me so obviously my generation find

848
01:10:36,943 --> 01:10:43,523
it it's very difficult to get onto the property ladder i think it's about four and a half times

849
01:10:43,523 --> 01:10:49,603
couple salaries for the average house price in the UK in the UK that's combined couple salary

850
01:10:49,603 --> 01:10:59,883
yeah fuck yeah it's crazy isn't it yeah so it's just insane and then you're you're kind of taught

851
01:10:59,883 --> 01:11:04,663
as you're growing up you need to get onto the property ladder that's what everyone's saying

852
01:11:04,663 --> 01:11:10,563
and again I kind of think that's just another thing that people don't question that they should

853
01:11:10,563 --> 01:11:14,823
it's like why why are we just buying properties why do we all have to

854
01:11:14,823 --> 01:11:20,423
like is property just going up because we're all just buying it like sheep

855
01:11:20,423 --> 01:11:27,783
but anyway that's kind of a side point but it's it's very difficult so i think a lot of my

856
01:11:27,783 --> 01:11:33,463
generation and the younger generation as well they're just quite nihilistic and there isn't

857
01:11:33,463 --> 01:11:41,403
a lot of hope so you're just sort of living day to day it's very hard to try and build something

858
01:11:41,403 --> 01:11:47,603
and progress up any sort of ladder whether that's financial stability whether whether that's a job

859
01:11:47,603 --> 01:11:55,343
um and for me it's just been that that sort of breathing space where i don't need to

860
01:11:55,343 --> 01:12:03,823
panic so much about money i just i'm sit i'm stacking bitcoin everything i save is bitcoin

861
01:12:03,823 --> 01:12:10,223
i don't really hold fiat currency at all and it just makes life so much easier i don't need to

862
01:12:10,223 --> 01:12:18,283
think about the price of bread or anything like that it's just gradually life just gets a little

863
01:12:18,283 --> 01:12:26,723
bit easier if you carry on working and saving and it means i mean for me one of the things that kind

864
01:12:26,723 --> 01:12:33,663
of helped make the decision easier about leaving my previous job was that work seemed to be

865
01:12:33,663 --> 01:12:38,783
encroaching on my personal life and i think that that's becoming more of a thing these days as well

866
01:12:38,783 --> 01:12:44,043
where you're trying to be the company you work for wants to tell you where you need to be

867
01:12:44,043 --> 01:12:51,603
how you should work in the most efficient way when actually in many ways that's a personal

868
01:12:51,603 --> 01:13:00,083
thing that you need to work out how you work in the most efficient way and so it was kind of in

869
01:13:00,083 --> 01:13:03,923
the stage where it's like right people need to start coming back into the office five days a

870
01:13:03,923 --> 01:13:09,363
week that sort of thing and for me I was thinking this isn't gonna this isn't the life I'm gonna be

871
01:13:09,363 --> 01:13:14,623
able to be happy with i don't want to be sat in an office five days a week being less productive

872
01:13:14,623 --> 01:13:24,503
than working say three days a week in an office and two days at home and ultimately i i want to

873
01:13:24,503 --> 01:13:30,443
have a dog which is a really random thing but like it's something i want like but i'm not gonna be

874
01:13:30,443 --> 01:13:37,063
able to do that if both me and my girlfriend are working full-time in offices and so without

875
01:13:37,063 --> 01:13:43,423
bitcoin i would have had to just suck it up and do all those things i feel like but with bitcoin

876
01:13:43,423 --> 01:13:52,003
it's been able to be like it's given me the um confidence to say no to certain things and push

877
01:13:52,003 --> 01:13:57,903
back on things i don't believe in and just have a bit more autonomy which i think is really

878
01:13:57,903 --> 01:14:06,923
important for everyone to be able to have awesome yeah and it's it's we've been recording for an

879
01:14:06,923 --> 01:14:14,263
hour and 14 minutes and that set of statements that you just made were the most powerful of the

880
01:14:14,263 --> 01:14:19,283
conversation so far that's why i love long form podcasts it's like it all makes sense when you

881
01:14:19,283 --> 01:14:26,123
hear that essentially it's helping give you additional options that enable you to be able

882
01:14:26,123 --> 01:14:35,543
to say no i'm not doing that fuck off yeah and that is very very healthy for everyone like not

883
01:14:35,543 --> 01:14:42,123
just from a perspective of self-worth, but also like the life you get to build yourself.

884
01:14:42,263 --> 01:14:43,563
It's like, what do you want to create?

885
01:14:44,243 --> 01:14:46,983
Okay, well, now you might be able to have that chance.

886
01:14:48,143 --> 01:14:52,703
I think it's really important as well, this idea of like Bitcoin's not a get rich quick

887
01:14:52,703 --> 01:14:53,023
scheme.

888
01:14:53,723 --> 01:14:59,003
And that's been pounded down by the price action at the moment as well, which people

889
01:14:59,003 --> 01:15:01,443
are like, oh, we thought we'd like probably twice as high.

890
01:15:01,843 --> 01:15:03,683
That was conservative in some people's eyes.

891
01:15:03,683 --> 01:15:06,723
but it's actually like

892
01:15:06,723 --> 01:15:09,323
if you can show me a way

893
01:15:09,323 --> 01:15:12,183
that I can put my head down

894
01:15:12,183 --> 01:15:14,023
be productive

895
01:15:14,023 --> 01:15:15,843
keep what's mine

896
01:15:15,843 --> 01:15:18,323
and it compounds over time

897
01:15:18,323 --> 01:15:19,883
I'll choose that

898
01:15:19,883 --> 01:15:21,703
I don't need like

899
01:15:21,703 --> 01:15:24,683
crazy crypto gains in two years

900
01:15:24,683 --> 01:15:26,463
to then live in the Bahamas

901
01:15:26,463 --> 01:15:28,243
and sail a yacht around the world

902
01:15:28,243 --> 01:15:29,603
I don't need that

903
01:15:29,603 --> 01:15:32,123
I just need to know there's a way of actually

904
01:15:32,123 --> 01:15:38,243
surviving to then have like essentially focus on thriving which is what this is really all about

905
01:15:38,243 --> 01:15:47,083
um and so Alex so to ask then how many of your friends have been through this journey that you

906
01:15:47,083 --> 01:15:52,843
just described of going from like quite well I don't you didn't say you were nihilist it yourself

907
01:15:52,843 --> 01:15:58,163
I'm not going to put that on you but you described many people of your generation being like that

908
01:15:58,163 --> 01:16:07,343
when you say how you feel do people get encouraged by that or do they get more like triggered by it

909
01:16:07,343 --> 01:16:13,443
but that can't be true yeah it's interesting because i think a lot a lot of my friends they

910
01:16:13,443 --> 01:16:22,283
just don't want to hear about it wow i think what they prefer to be broke and in the pub pissed and

911
01:16:22,283 --> 01:16:30,083
angry well for me when i was before bitcoin i just felt a bit hopeless i kind of thought

912
01:16:30,083 --> 01:16:33,823
like life is going to be what it's going to be and

913
01:16:33,823 --> 01:16:43,183
yeah it's kind of a rigged game against you but and i think some of my friends see it see the world

914
01:16:43,183 --> 01:16:50,423
like that and i don't know exactly what they think but i think they just think every time

915
01:16:50,423 --> 01:16:56,423
they hear bitcoin they just think oh like gambler like i want to stick to my safe investments because

916
01:16:56,423 --> 01:17:00,023
you're actually just irresponsible and i'm annoyed that it's paid off for you

917
01:17:00,023 --> 01:17:05,863
i think that's probably more closer to what they think because

918
01:17:05,863 --> 01:17:14,083
they're like they're now they're now envious of the success and pigeonhole it as your luck

919
01:17:14,083 --> 01:17:18,963
rather than potentially something that they could do.

920
01:17:19,903 --> 01:17:21,063
It's interesting, isn't it?

921
01:17:21,123 --> 01:17:22,983
Because there's two types of people in a way.

922
01:17:23,083 --> 01:17:26,923
There's people that go, huh, success leaves clues.

923
01:17:27,883 --> 01:17:28,143
Hmm.

924
01:17:28,843 --> 01:17:30,723
Maybe I should just ask them how they did that

925
01:17:30,723 --> 01:17:34,283
rather than being like, oh, fuck them.

926
01:17:34,643 --> 01:17:35,263
They're lucky.

927
01:17:36,063 --> 01:17:36,623
You know what I mean?

928
01:17:36,703 --> 01:17:37,723
It's so interesting.

929
01:17:38,043 --> 01:17:38,903
Why are people like that?

930
01:17:38,943 --> 01:17:39,403
I don't know.

931
01:17:40,103 --> 01:17:41,863
But I think the thing about Bitcoin

932
01:17:41,863 --> 01:17:49,083
is that people are just so it's so ingrained in what they think that bitcoin is probably

933
01:17:49,083 --> 01:17:55,363
scam adjacent or there's something off about it and so they just don't want to hear it so they

934
01:17:55,363 --> 01:18:04,343
think you have just been at the casino and you've come out um you've come out um on top but if i do

935
01:18:04,343 --> 01:18:09,203
that i'm probably not going to so like i just need to just ignore what you're doing because

936
01:18:09,203 --> 01:18:14,723
you are lucky like whatever whatever happened it worked for you but it's not going to happen for me

937
01:18:14,723 --> 01:18:20,823
because it's it's something i don't understand and i'm very scared of and the i don't understand

938
01:18:20,823 --> 01:18:24,423
phrase is always interesting because like okay can you explain to me how fiat currency works

939
01:18:24,423 --> 01:18:33,943
yeah how does the debt-based system function what's fractional reserve banking what leave me alone

940
01:18:33,943 --> 01:18:41,683
you fucking weirdo but that does that's this is the most retarded explanation as to why you

941
01:18:41,683 --> 01:18:46,243
wouldn't look at something is i don't understand it but i don't understand an iphone works i don't

942
01:18:46,243 --> 01:18:51,163
understand how an internal combustion engine works i understand how tons of stuff actually works but i

943
01:18:51,163 --> 01:18:57,303
use it every day and even that annoys people when you talk to them about it it's a very very

944
01:18:57,303 --> 01:19:03,783
interesting time because at some stage the more that you learn about bitcoin like what

945
01:19:03,783 --> 01:19:09,143
first of all the more you know the more you buy that's like a clear trend that i see in absolutely

946
01:19:09,143 --> 01:19:13,963
everyone within the space the more you learn the more you buy the more you wish you'd bought earlier

947
01:19:13,963 --> 01:19:20,923
is also like people today at like 95 000 us dollars are gonna absolutely hate themselves for

948
01:19:20,923 --> 01:19:26,263
not buying more in the not too distant future now what is that two years three years i don't know

949
01:19:26,263 --> 01:19:32,543
but suddenly that's going to look really cheap um what's interesting though is at some point

950
01:19:32,543 --> 01:19:41,603
that general angst that you described that's going to be a problem because a population is

951
01:19:41,603 --> 01:19:48,323
going to see this subset who they're going to consider lucky or have been to the casino and

952
01:19:48,323 --> 01:19:55,543
i can't go there become wealthier and wealthier more and more independent happier and happier is a

953
01:19:55,543 --> 01:20:00,423
trend i've also seen more and more kids as well like people having big families again because they

954
01:20:00,423 --> 01:20:05,303
can actually think like oh i can plan for that now i can afford it and they're going to be really

955
01:20:05,303 --> 01:20:13,543
pissed off and democracy functions as a popularity contest so i wonder i wonder like is is it going

956
01:20:13,543 --> 01:20:20,083
to be a case of like all right bitcoin's now part of um you know the u.s in particular is leading

957
01:20:20,083 --> 01:20:26,023
the charge i think in terms of its its policy frankly so you know there's very clear precedent

958
01:20:26,023 --> 01:20:29,583
around code as free speech in the US.

959
01:20:29,763 --> 01:20:31,843
And therefore, like actually censoring Bitcoin

960
01:20:31,843 --> 01:20:32,803
is going to be pretty hard

961
01:20:32,803 --> 01:20:35,123
and they're getting better at ingratiating Bitcoin miners

962
01:20:35,123 --> 01:20:36,583
and all this kind of stuff going on.

963
01:20:38,043 --> 01:20:40,683
But aren't there going to be tons of American voters

964
01:20:40,683 --> 01:20:43,323
that are really pissed off with a subset of Bitcoiners

965
01:20:43,323 --> 01:20:44,663
that have done very well?

966
01:20:44,723 --> 01:20:46,763
And the same would be said in Australia or the UK

967
01:20:46,763 --> 01:20:47,683
or any other place.

968
01:20:48,483 --> 01:20:49,983
How do you think that might play out?

969
01:20:51,283 --> 01:20:53,303
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you've had the conversations

970
01:20:53,303 --> 01:20:56,203
with non-Bitcoiners about this

971
01:20:56,203 --> 01:20:59,643
because when I've been talking to people

972
01:20:59,643 --> 01:21:03,843
about how eventually Bitcoin could become the world currency,

973
01:21:04,483 --> 01:21:06,863
they're like, oh, but then certain people

974
01:21:06,863 --> 01:21:08,483
will just have all of the Bitcoin

975
01:21:08,483 --> 01:21:12,523
and will the government then take from them

976
01:21:12,523 --> 01:21:13,883
and redistribute it.

977
01:21:13,963 --> 01:21:16,603
It's like, no, that's not how it works.

978
01:21:18,583 --> 01:21:20,623
Wow, so someone actually said that to you?

979
01:21:21,103 --> 01:21:21,383
Yeah.

980
01:21:21,383 --> 01:21:28,803
it was uh yeah and i just think that it's the whole mind shift like people are thinking people

981
01:21:28,803 --> 01:21:34,303
think like okay someone works hard and they create a lot of value and there's money in the system and

982
01:21:34,303 --> 01:21:42,283
it's okay for it to be distributed against the person who created its will people just think

983
01:21:42,283 --> 01:21:50,123
that that's fine and personally i i don't think that's fine i think there's issues with capitalism

984
01:21:50,123 --> 01:21:57,263
that people can get unbelievably wealthy and it's maybe not healthy but it's i believe in property

985
01:21:57,263 --> 01:22:06,143
rights and people having the things that they've worked for and yeah i just think it yeah it will

986
01:22:06,143 --> 01:22:14,363
be a very messy shift because especially in the uk it's people are thinking people are not thinking

987
01:22:14,363 --> 01:22:20,923
about property rights and you've worked hard for this so that's fine or you've decided to buy

988
01:22:20,923 --> 01:22:27,403
bitcoin at the very early days when it was risky you've taken that risk and it's paid off it's

989
01:22:27,403 --> 01:22:33,363
oh that's unfair well i should get some of that now because how am i going to survive

990
01:22:33,363 --> 01:22:42,243
and it's a really hard one this isn't it so alex i am i'm conscious of time do you have another 10

991
01:22:42,243 --> 01:22:49,363
minutes or so yeah yeah cool okay let's we'll wrap it up after this but so i was born in the uk

992
01:22:49,363 --> 01:22:56,423
school uni everything left when i was 24 lived in singapore for a four or five years almost i was

993
01:22:56,423 --> 01:23:01,543
away for back to london for a bit then moved to australia because my wife's ossy so in the last

994
01:23:01,543 --> 01:23:09,543
15 years i haven't really been in the uk very much um but i still have family back there and

995
01:23:09,543 --> 01:23:14,323
I'm involved in a number of bits and pieces that mean that I'm still very

996
01:23:14,323 --> 01:23:17,703
interested and also invested in the UK.

997
01:23:18,423 --> 01:23:21,583
And in something that came up particular recently was the inheritance tax and

998
01:23:21,583 --> 01:23:25,923
managing some stuff between my brother, my sister, my mom, 40%.

999
01:23:25,923 --> 01:23:31,663
So at death, the British government takes 40% of someone's stuff.

1000
01:23:32,843 --> 01:23:33,323
What?

1001
01:23:33,863 --> 01:23:35,403
Now, interestingly, Australia is zero.

1002
01:23:35,703 --> 01:23:37,823
There's no inheritance tax in Australia currently.

1003
01:23:37,823 --> 01:23:46,463
that might change of course any of this stuff could change um and and in in the uk you can

1004
01:23:46,463 --> 01:23:53,283
you know you can use things like trusts to navigate from a more tax efficient perspective

1005
01:23:53,283 --> 01:23:59,483
like assets from generation to generation but it's still like it's it's extraordinary

1006
01:23:59,483 --> 01:24:06,823
how much people are taxed and i believe that the uk right now has the highest per capita

1007
01:24:06,823 --> 01:24:15,203
quantity of millionaires leaving the country so total volume yeah most are going out of china

1008
01:24:15,203 --> 01:24:19,443
you know they're pilfering what they can out of the communist state and getting the hell out

1009
01:24:19,443 --> 01:24:25,803
fair enough but in the same sense it's happening in the uk a place of 65 million people 70 million

1010
01:24:25,803 --> 01:24:33,163
people whatever it is now um what what keeps you in england at this stage in your life when you're

1011
01:24:33,163 --> 01:24:36,603
looking at things like this but like you believe in property rights you believe in being more

1012
01:24:36,603 --> 01:24:40,903
productive you've now got a sound money that you know is going to be yours in the future

1013
01:24:40,903 --> 01:24:45,863
um are you concerned about how things are going and what is it like there

1014
01:24:45,863 --> 01:24:51,643
yeah it's uh so i was in london at the weekend with my girlfriend and

1015
01:24:51,643 --> 01:24:57,443
she is definitely more positive has a more positive outlook about things whereas i'm like

1016
01:24:57,443 --> 01:25:04,443
this is a bit of a dump and uh but we came home and she's like yeah london's really gone downhill

1017
01:25:04,443 --> 01:25:12,343
wow and she she actually works there um in the week but at the weekend it was kind of quite

1018
01:25:12,343 --> 01:25:19,243
eye-opening we were sat in a pub in voxel which is not not a terrible area as far as i'm aware i

1019
01:25:19,243 --> 01:25:24,203
mean i don't know london that well but we're sat in a nice pub see a biker gang go down the street

1020
01:25:24,203 --> 01:25:31,443
with black hockey masks it's just like what is this place it's insane how much it's deteriorating

1021
01:25:31,443 --> 01:25:40,163
and yeah the taxes are just going crazy labor are just destroying everything and people do want to

1022
01:25:40,163 --> 01:25:47,143
leave personally i i would i'd love to leave i'd love to go live in portugal or somewhere like that

1023
01:25:47,143 --> 01:25:54,623
i've always had an issue living in the uk because the sort of um leisure activities don't really

1024
01:25:54,623 --> 01:26:02,443
appeal to me i want to be up going up mountains and going skiing and going to the beach and things

1025
01:26:02,443 --> 01:26:06,683
like that so it's always been a struggle for me from that point of view um but now that

1026
01:26:06,683 --> 01:26:14,803
yeah now that there are other opportunities because of bitcoin and being a sort of

1027
01:26:14,803 --> 01:26:18,763
money that you can take with you anywhere and sort of

1028
01:26:19,903 --> 01:26:26,623
yeah it gives you that more gives you that flexibility it definitely makes me want to leave

1029
01:26:26,623 --> 01:26:34,503
but at the same time i need to uh save some more stack some more sats before i can

1030
01:26:34,503 --> 01:26:42,463
fair enough i i have every confidence that if you chose to pick up and go then you could

1031
01:26:42,463 --> 01:26:47,043
and the cool thing that you've already taught me in this conversation is like you know you're

1032
01:26:47,043 --> 01:26:50,683
willing to take risks you're willing to say i was wrong about something you're willing to actually

1033
01:26:50,683 --> 01:26:57,943
like put yourself out there those are all like critical factors to help make a big move if you

1034
01:26:57,943 --> 01:27:03,123
were to choose to do that and equally the more content you create the more you work for a bitcoin

1035
01:27:03,123 --> 01:27:08,283
business the more bitcoin you stack you are in a sense digitally native like you're not selling

1036
01:27:08,283 --> 01:27:11,483
coffees in a coffee shop you're not running a factory somewhere you're not like physically

1037
01:27:11,483 --> 01:27:15,443
be tied to an office which has got you on this crazy employment contract it's like actually

1038
01:27:15,443 --> 01:27:20,883
you could probably do what you're doing for bitcoin collective from lisbon and fly back to

1039
01:27:20,883 --> 01:27:25,843
london when you need to be there um i'm not saying that will happen but yeah interesting

1040
01:27:25,843 --> 01:27:33,923
yeah it's very hard to know what's real in some ways you know that the the newspaper headlines

1041
01:27:33,923 --> 01:27:37,383
will say oh this is going on and this is so bad and blah blah blah blah and you're like

1042
01:27:37,383 --> 01:27:43,043
is it you know and as soon as you put your phone down you walk outside everything's pretty chill

1043
01:27:43,043 --> 01:27:49,663
yeah you know what i mean it's like it's it's it's not actually that crazy i mean obviously seeing

1044
01:27:49,663 --> 01:27:55,583
um i used to do in brixton actually so i know voxel quite well you wouldn't have had dudes on

1045
01:27:55,583 --> 01:28:00,403
fucking mopeds with masks on driving around 10 years ago when i used to live there no fucking way

1046
01:28:00,403 --> 01:28:06,763
so that that's definitely a change but but isn't this also you know as part of this bitcoin research

1047
01:28:06,763 --> 01:28:07,483
that we've all done.

1048
01:28:07,623 --> 01:28:08,803
This is the fourth turning.

1049
01:28:09,563 --> 01:28:12,903
This is what happens when you live on a lie

1050
01:28:12,903 --> 01:28:14,723
for like 50 plus years

1051
01:28:14,723 --> 01:28:16,443
when people are able to print their own money.

1052
01:28:16,803 --> 01:28:18,763
There's no more goods and services in the system.

1053
01:28:19,163 --> 01:28:20,423
They're just more monetary units

1054
01:28:20,423 --> 01:28:22,783
and no one's salary keeps up with the speed

1055
01:28:22,783 --> 01:28:23,643
that they print them at.

1056
01:28:23,883 --> 01:28:25,243
So everyone's getting poorer.

1057
01:28:25,643 --> 01:28:27,443
And as a result, crime rises.

1058
01:28:28,063 --> 01:28:28,743
It's really simple.

1059
01:28:28,843 --> 01:28:30,503
It doesn't make sense to go to work any longer

1060
01:28:30,503 --> 01:28:32,043
because you're going to tax me

1061
01:28:32,043 --> 01:28:33,843
on the official income that I make.

1062
01:28:33,963 --> 01:28:35,803
That means that my real wages are worse

1063
01:28:35,803 --> 01:28:36,743
than what they were a year ago.

1064
01:28:36,763 --> 01:28:38,003
or five years ago.

1065
01:28:38,383 --> 01:28:41,723
And it's unsurprising that people turn to nihilism,

1066
01:28:41,863 --> 01:28:42,983
for example, as a mindset.

1067
01:28:44,363 --> 01:28:46,463
Our big challenge, though, in some ways,

1068
01:28:46,563 --> 01:28:48,683
as people who've gone down the Bitcoin rabbit hole

1069
01:28:48,683 --> 01:28:55,283
is to bring people with us in a way that meets them

1070
01:28:55,283 --> 01:28:57,883
where they're at and doesn't alienate them

1071
01:28:57,883 --> 01:28:59,843
from the future potential.

1072
01:29:00,703 --> 01:29:02,963
So I personally believe that the benefits

1073
01:29:02,963 --> 01:29:05,323
that we've seen thus far, like past performance,

1074
01:29:05,323 --> 01:29:09,203
It's not guarantee a future performance that we haven't even got going really.

1075
01:29:09,883 --> 01:29:12,003
And so if you jumped on the Bitcoin bandwagon now,

1076
01:29:12,003 --> 01:29:14,723
what you'll see over the next five years will be even better than what's

1077
01:29:14,723 --> 01:29:15,803
happened in the last five years.

1078
01:29:16,303 --> 01:29:19,823
But people need to make that step and you can't do that for them.

1079
01:29:20,743 --> 01:29:24,103
So yeah, it's a very interesting time, isn't it?

1080
01:29:24,363 --> 01:29:26,043
Well, Alex, thank you so much for your time today.

1081
01:29:26,263 --> 01:29:28,743
I would love to just open it up to,

1082
01:29:28,823 --> 01:29:31,883
is there anything else that we haven't touched on that you would like to

1083
01:29:31,883 --> 01:29:38,163
mention or or any anything that resonated that you want to mention uh no i don't think so yeah

1084
01:29:38,163 --> 01:29:43,663
awesome well thank you so much for coming on and joining the podcast i really appreciate it and

1085
01:29:43,663 --> 01:29:48,903
love learning from people um thanks for having me i'm gonna i'm gonna make a shout out to

1086
01:29:48,903 --> 01:29:55,043
is it the big boss bear yes have i remembered that correctly i thought i'd better go and check

1087
01:29:55,043 --> 01:29:59,923
my telegram but yeah who contacted me and said jake you should have a chat with alex on on the

1088
01:29:59,923 --> 01:30:05,543
podcast so appreciate you getting us in touch thanks mate um final question is where can people

1089
01:30:05,543 --> 01:30:11,963
reach out and get in touch if they want to get um if they want to contact you um i'm on x and youtube

1090
01:30:11,963 --> 01:30:18,723
uh it's just alex glass i think okay awesome and i'll pop that in the show notes no worries

1091
01:30:18,723 --> 01:30:24,123
well alex thanks so much for your time today nice one thanks jake my pleasure thank you