1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,880 The average person hears censorship or something, they think about China and the great firewall of China, how the Chinese people can't search for certain things on the internet or even access certain things on the internet. 2 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:22,100 And they don't realize that it's literally happening elsewhere in the world. It's literally happening in the UK right now. It's wild to watch it happen. It's moving very fast. 3 00:00:22,100 --> 00:00:29,520 I think Gigi said this recently, and I have similar thoughts on it too, is that the internet is diverging in two separate ways. 4 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,840 We have the KYC permissioned, censored internet over here. 5 00:00:35,260 --> 00:00:41,220 And then we have this small, divergent, open and free, permissionless internet that's starting to emerge and gain traction. 6 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,320 Tell me about a time you felt like you said too much. 7 00:00:45,020 --> 00:00:47,440 Oh man, maybe just right now. 8 00:00:47,540 --> 00:00:50,940 All views expressed by the host or guests are solely their own opinions. 9 00:00:50,940 --> 00:00:57,160 Nothing stated in this podcast should be considered a specific endorsement to make any particular investment or follow any specific strategy. 10 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,280 Welcome to All in Bitcoin, Derek. 11 00:01:10,660 --> 00:01:12,620 Everyone interviews you about Nostra. 12 00:01:12,860 --> 00:01:15,360 I want to talk about what Nostra has done to you. 13 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,140 So let's start with my 21 takes and we'll take it from there. 14 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:20,740 Okay, thank you for having me. 15 00:01:20,940 --> 00:01:21,720 Yes, I'm ready. 16 00:01:22,220 --> 00:01:24,680 What's a myth about Nostra you wish would die? 17 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:32,260 People immediately say that Nostra is really technical and really hard to use. 18 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:38,980 While maybe that was the case maybe two years ago, it's gotten a lot better. 19 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:39,960 It really has. 20 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:45,060 And I think that people will realize that it's not as technical. 21 00:01:45,740 --> 00:01:47,880 Finding content is a little bit easier. 22 00:01:48,500 --> 00:01:50,920 Finding users is a little bit easier. 23 00:01:51,380 --> 00:01:53,000 Now, that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of work to do. 24 00:01:53,100 --> 00:01:54,400 There's still tons of work to do. 25 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:59,940 But I think that applications have really improved over the past two years. 26 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:07,300 So people, if they were turned off two years ago because it was too technical or too hard to grasp, I think they should try it again. 27 00:02:07,620 --> 00:02:14,100 I'm not a tech person, and I don't see the difference between X, Damos, Iris, Primal. 28 00:02:14,380 --> 00:02:15,180 There really isn't. 29 00:02:15,180 --> 00:02:21,760 What confuses people is the fact that people are used to usernames and passwords. 30 00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:25,140 They're used to this legacy thing that we've done since forever. 31 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,240 And as soon as you take that away and you add something that is long and complicated, 32 00:02:30,460 --> 00:02:37,220 like a private key or a public key, people just get confused and they kind of gloss over their eyes. 33 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:39,340 They're like, oh, what is this? 34 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:42,040 And that's okay. 35 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,240 They don't need to understand the technical reasons for it. 36 00:02:46,340 --> 00:02:48,580 They just need to understand that it exists. 37 00:02:49,340 --> 00:02:52,380 So tell me, do you think Satoshi is building on Noster? 38 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,980 I think that we're all building on Noster. 39 00:02:58,300 --> 00:02:59,780 Is Satoshi alive? 40 00:02:59,940 --> 00:03:01,480 And I hope so. 41 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:07,460 And I hope that he or she, them, whoever Satoshi is, I hope they're using Noster in an anonymous 42 00:03:07,460 --> 00:03:15,440 way, watching us all zap and send Bitcoin around to each other, that would be amazing 43 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:15,840 to me. 44 00:03:15,980 --> 00:03:21,420 Because on Nostra, we're actually using Bitcoin as a cash system. 45 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:22,840 We're using it as e-cash. 46 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:26,480 And we do with nut zaps and everything. 47 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:35,200 But I think that it's the largest deployment of a Bitcoin circular economy in the world. 48 00:03:35,820 --> 00:03:39,940 So I think that Satoshi would be very proud to see what we're doing on Noster. 49 00:03:41,020 --> 00:03:43,900 A misconception about you that you would like to clear up. 50 00:03:44,820 --> 00:03:46,040 Oh, man, this is great. 51 00:03:46,380 --> 00:03:47,220 Oh, okay. 52 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:48,440 The floor is yours. 53 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,500 I am not Noster's CEO. 54 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:58,420 This is a good, so this is a funny joke that started, oh, man, like two and a half years 55 00:03:58,420 --> 00:03:58,760 ago. 56 00:03:59,140 --> 00:04:00,980 I'm very active on Noster. 57 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,660 I'm helping a lot of people out, explaining what it is, how it works. 58 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:10,700 And this one guy had a complaint and he was just complaining. 59 00:04:11,140 --> 00:04:12,280 And I responded. 60 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:13,460 I'm a helpful guy. 61 00:04:13,460 --> 00:04:14,200 I respond. 62 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:19,580 And he responds again with like a kind of like a mean tone about something not working. 63 00:04:19,740 --> 00:04:24,120 And then one of my friends responded to him saying, sir, do you know who you're talking 64 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:24,380 to? 65 00:04:24,460 --> 00:04:26,300 This is Noster's CEO right here. 66 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,600 And the guy's like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. 67 00:04:29,180 --> 00:04:34,020 And then from there, that just one off joke turned into a meme. 68 00:04:34,020 --> 00:04:41,460 and people say this all of the time and and i get it it's funny kind of like there is no bitcoin ceo 69 00:04:41,460 --> 00:04:48,600 there is no nostre ceo but i'm very active on nostre people see my face i go around a lot of 70 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,520 conferences talking about nostre i do a lot of onboarding i do a lot of growth i do a lot of 71 00:04:53,520 --> 00:05:01,140 education so i get it like i'm i'm a well-known face and i guess that has to be somebody in the 72 00:05:01,140 --> 00:05:09,100 early days. So I accept meme. I like the meme. It's funny. But sometimes some people, 73 00:05:10,220 --> 00:05:13,360 I don't know, I don't want people to think bad about me for it. Like, 74 00:05:13,620 --> 00:05:17,000 there is no Noster, you know, ruler, there is no Noster CEO. 75 00:05:17,620 --> 00:05:19,540 So how come there is no Noster CEO? 76 00:05:19,780 --> 00:05:25,680 It's a protocol, right? So nobody owns it. There's no centralized, you know, corporation, 77 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,980 entity, anybody that owns it, and anybody can build on Noster. So the fact that you 78 00:05:30,980 --> 00:05:38,020 say that there's a Nostra CEO kind of is a fallacy. It's not true. But that's in line with the joke. 79 00:05:38,020 --> 00:05:43,220 And that's in line with the meme is sure, you can say Derek is the CEO, but there literally is no CEO. 80 00:05:43,220 --> 00:05:49,320 We're all the CEO. Like we can all do whatever and say whatever we want on Nostra. So I play into 81 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:56,940 that meme and I laugh about it. But I, you know, people like to have fun and I don't mind it. 82 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,960 Is Nostra your only window to the outside world? 83 00:06:00,980 --> 00:06:06,240 I deleted all of my other socials a couple of years ago. 84 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,740 I hadn't been on Facebook in years. 85 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:09,760 I didn't really use it. 86 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,320 I was really big and active on Twitter. 87 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:14,900 Instagram I used. 88 00:06:15,060 --> 00:06:16,000 LinkedIn I used. 89 00:06:16,460 --> 00:06:23,820 But once I went all in on Noster, I realized that why was I keeping these other platforms 90 00:06:23,820 --> 00:06:24,540 around? 91 00:06:25,100 --> 00:06:28,480 Why was I still every once in a while checking out Twitter? 92 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:36,240 Like if I really believed in everything that I was saying and telling people and educating people on, then why was I still there? 93 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:37,840 So I deleted everything else. 94 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,240 I deleted them all. 95 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:39,960 I don't use them. 96 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,620 I don't know what's going on. 97 00:06:43,660 --> 00:06:51,640 A funny example on the personal side is I had a family reunion recently, and I had found out some things that were going on with cousins of mine. 98 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,820 And they were like, oh, you didn't know this. 99 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:56,080 And I said, no, I don't use Facebook. 100 00:06:56,260 --> 00:06:56,840 I don't know. 101 00:06:56,900 --> 00:06:57,720 I'm so sorry. 102 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:02,640 but that's I don't pay attention to anything else but Noster I get my news a lot of the time 103 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:11,020 from Noster like I I'm all in like I I try to be as all in as possible do you miss it so um I would 104 00:07:11,020 --> 00:07:20,340 say no maybe at first I did but not anymore like I I don't I get I have relationships and 105 00:07:20,340 --> 00:07:27,660 friendships that I've built on Noster. So I interact with my friends on Noster. I get news 106 00:07:27,660 --> 00:07:34,920 and the content that I want on Noster. And I don't. I think that if something is important 107 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:40,760 enough, like in my real life or my family life, that I'll find out about it. Somebody will call 108 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:46,080 me, somebody will text me, somebody will tell me in person. And then everything else, you know, 109 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:47,800 it just comes to me through an Oscar. 110 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,840 Or I've maybe taught myself that I don't care about the noise, right? 111 00:07:52,860 --> 00:07:55,460 I don't care about the other content. 112 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,920 If it doesn't affect me personally, and if I'm not looking for it, 113 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:00,320 then I shouldn't care about it. 114 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,380 What's something you had to unlearn in life other than that? 115 00:08:04,380 --> 00:08:09,140 um i would say 116 00:08:09,140 --> 00:08:12,720 that 117 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:37,818 differences differences in opinions and different thoughts it kind of how we grow as humans And maybe through legacy social media we kind of learn that we kind of put we pitted against each other in like legacy social media where your opinion is maybe the good opinion and this person opinion is the bad opinion 118 00:08:37,818 --> 00:08:42,138 And we're kind of put against one another on legacy social media. 119 00:08:42,138 --> 00:08:50,478 And after doing that for years, you kind of maybe start thinking that way a little bit, that I'm right and you're wrong and you're bad because you're wrong. 120 00:08:51,398 --> 00:09:01,418 And after a while, you know, I kind of looked back and reflected on that and realized that that's probably not the way. 121 00:09:01,518 --> 00:09:04,718 The differences of opinions aren't really right and wrong. 122 00:09:04,918 --> 00:09:06,958 It's just what that is. 123 00:09:06,978 --> 00:09:08,718 It's just different thoughts, different ideas. 124 00:09:08,718 --> 00:09:14,458 and the more ideas and more opinions and more thoughts that we have it's how we can grow 125 00:09:14,458 --> 00:09:19,338 someone's opinion being different from yours isn't bad it just means they have a different thought 126 00:09:19,338 --> 00:09:25,298 and that's okay and we can take that and then learn to understand that person we can even you 127 00:09:25,298 --> 00:09:31,158 form good relationships and and bonds with other people once we understand you know where they're 128 00:09:31,158 --> 00:09:36,238 coming from and i i think that i don't know i think the the world would be a better place if 129 00:09:36,238 --> 00:09:43,398 a lot of people kind of realize that, that, that, you know, we don't all fit in the same box and 130 00:09:43,398 --> 00:09:50,038 that's completely okay. That my box is awesome and your box is awesome and our boxes can hang 131 00:09:50,038 --> 00:09:55,718 out together and it's perfectly fine. And I, so I think once I realized that a few years ago that, 132 00:09:56,018 --> 00:10:03,998 you know, I became much more kind of Zen on things and just realized that, that, that life is good 133 00:10:03,998 --> 00:10:09,478 and we shouldn't be arguing and fighting over things that all honestly really don't matter in 134 00:10:09,478 --> 00:10:14,958 the grand scheme of things. So a moment where being visible came at a cost. 135 00:10:16,078 --> 00:10:21,358 I don't know off the top of my head, but I will say just this morning at breakfast, 136 00:10:21,358 --> 00:10:27,038 I was having a conversation about this where an individual I was eating breakfast with was telling 137 00:10:27,038 --> 00:10:35,538 me that he's anonymous and was talking to me about being public and visible. And I said that 138 00:10:35,538 --> 00:10:41,958 over the past couple of years, I've thought about this numerous, numerous times. Like, 139 00:10:42,878 --> 00:10:50,058 I use my real name, I use my face, I'm out there. And is that good or bad? And I've had private 140 00:10:50,058 --> 00:10:56,018 conversations with people saying, well, maybe, you know, maybe if I had to do it all over again, 141 00:10:56,018 --> 00:11:03,838 I would remain anonymous like I was years ago because anonymity and privacy is very important. 142 00:11:04,078 --> 00:11:08,778 And being a public figure has its pluses and minuses. 143 00:11:08,898 --> 00:11:10,558 And maybe I don't like the minuses. 144 00:11:10,998 --> 00:11:20,158 So I was talking to people and they said, well, Derek, you know, it's good for some people to be out there and be visible. 145 00:11:21,358 --> 00:11:25,878 Because when people hear about these type of technologies, they hear about Bitcoin. 146 00:11:26,018 --> 00:11:28,558 They hear about Nostra. They hear about freedom technology. 147 00:11:29,798 --> 00:11:40,278 That a lot of people's thoughts go towards like shadowy, super coder, you know, in the shadows people, you know, bad actors. 148 00:11:40,458 --> 00:11:41,638 Why do they want to be hidden? 149 00:11:41,898 --> 00:11:46,398 And that people need to realize that it's regular people. 150 00:11:46,658 --> 00:11:48,658 It's people like you, like me. 151 00:11:49,278 --> 00:11:54,938 I'm using it not because I want to stay hidden, because I appreciate and understand the technology. 152 00:11:54,938 --> 00:12:24,918 And I'm just a regular person. So I've had multiple people say that they appreciate what I do because I'm stepping out from the shadows and letting other people know that it's okay to use these technologies, that regular people use them, and that I'm kind of doing them a service where I'm visible so other people that want to stay hidden or invisible. 153 00:12:24,938 --> 00:12:31,538 can. And that took me a little bit of time to understand, but I understand it now. And now I 154 00:12:31,538 --> 00:12:37,958 feel like that is like a responsibility that I have to help others. And I like helping others. 155 00:12:37,958 --> 00:12:43,718 So that's how I sell it to myself. What's something you believe that most of your peers don't? 156 00:12:45,338 --> 00:12:53,758 Probably in Bitcoin. Like a lot of my friends in my real life that live in my local community and 157 00:12:53,758 --> 00:13:04,018 my family members too the majority of them don't believe in bitcoin and don't see it as any type of 158 00:13:04,018 --> 00:13:11,798 any type of investment any type of tool any type of you know money anything that we all say bitcoin 159 00:13:11,798 --> 00:13:19,878 is they they just see it as you know something that's i'll say not real they don't understand 160 00:13:19,878 --> 00:13:24,458 it. They don't want to understand it. They don't think they need it. They think they have retirement 161 00:13:24,458 --> 00:13:28,918 through their job and that's good enough. They think, you know, the government will take care 162 00:13:28,918 --> 00:13:34,678 of them, whatever. And I try to explain these things to them and they, they're happy that I'm 163 00:13:34,678 --> 00:13:38,778 happy. They're good friends. Like they, they know that I'm interested in it. And every once in a 164 00:13:38,778 --> 00:13:43,018 while, you know, this friend or family member, you know, they'll say, Hey, how's this going for you? 165 00:13:43,018 --> 00:13:48,778 You know, they'll ask me about it and I'll talk about it, but they, they don't want to get involved 166 00:13:48,778 --> 00:13:53,278 or they don't want to buy Bitcoin or study it or anything like that. 167 00:13:53,558 --> 00:13:55,918 So I think that that's an outlier there. 168 00:13:56,098 --> 00:13:59,138 But actually, it seems like that's kind of common in our space. 169 00:13:59,338 --> 00:14:03,438 You know, we tell how many friends and family about it so many times. 170 00:14:03,518 --> 00:14:04,278 And they're like, oh, cool. 171 00:14:04,418 --> 00:14:05,078 And then that's it. 172 00:14:05,138 --> 00:14:06,918 Like, they don't go any further than that. 173 00:14:07,038 --> 00:14:12,078 Why do you think it's so difficult to orange peel or purple peel a family member? 174 00:14:12,158 --> 00:14:13,038 I don't know why. 175 00:14:13,038 --> 00:14:19,618 I like the, they're all interested, but they're not interested enough to take the next step for 176 00:14:19,618 --> 00:14:24,178 whatever reason. And for, for the purple pill, you know, for Noster, I'll say that's probably 177 00:14:24,178 --> 00:14:31,458 because they're used to maybe all of their friends and all their family and all their interests and 178 00:14:31,458 --> 00:14:37,078 all their likes being on their certain social platform. Noster doesn't have a lot of that. 179 00:14:37,078 --> 00:14:45,598 so that that's that's understandable i guess um but bitcoin you don't really have to interact with 180 00:14:45,598 --> 00:14:50,558 it you just you can just buy it and then you can do nothing else but buy it and you can buy small 181 00:14:50,558 --> 00:14:56,318 amounts of it too and especially when some of your friends and family members do have like other 182 00:14:56,318 --> 00:15:01,858 investments like they invest in you know the stock market you know why couldn't they invest 183 00:15:01,858 --> 00:15:06,798 in bitcoin and treat it as a stock like a lot of people do they just you know but they just 184 00:15:06,798 --> 00:15:12,138 there's a bad taste in people's mouths about it because of what they've heard for years that 185 00:15:12,138 --> 00:15:17,898 criminals use it and it's killing the environment and but i i don't know it's 186 00:15:18,618 --> 00:15:25,338 perception perception is a hell of a drug and if it's perceived bad a lot of people think oh it's 187 00:15:25,338 --> 00:15:32,398 bad and they don't want to look into it anymore i thought that um my people my family and my 188 00:15:32,398 --> 00:15:39,758 friends will get it through osmosis. Yeah. It's not happening. Very slow osmosis. 189 00:15:40,218 --> 00:15:47,298 Very slow one. Yeah. But I also think that they think that it is really difficult. And it used to 190 00:15:47,298 --> 00:15:53,458 be. It's getting better. For me, what is difficult is the modern monetary system. That's difficult. 191 00:15:53,458 --> 00:15:59,278 Think about it. If you had to know how the current monetary system worked to be able to use it, 192 00:15:59,278 --> 00:16:02,378 no one would want to use it because it's so complicated. 193 00:16:03,018 --> 00:16:07,678 But at the base layer, you just take cash and give it to somebody 194 00:16:07,678 --> 00:16:08,478 and that just works. 195 00:16:08,778 --> 00:16:09,838 And that's all people know. 196 00:16:10,018 --> 00:16:14,258 So once Bitcoin, and we're basically there, 197 00:16:14,258 --> 00:16:18,638 once Bitcoin becomes so easy that we can just send and receive 198 00:16:18,638 --> 00:16:22,438 just as easy as making a credit card payment or making a cash payment, 199 00:16:23,098 --> 00:16:25,858 then a lot of the complexity goes away. 200 00:16:25,858 --> 00:16:29,178 But there's still complexity with self-custody. 201 00:16:29,178 --> 00:16:32,818 And I think that's what scares a lot of people. 202 00:16:32,818 --> 00:16:45,316 Like personally even for family members I told them to use Blocks BitKey because it very very simple multi and it not overly complicated 203 00:16:45,536 --> 00:16:49,296 So I've recommended that to actually multiple family members and they're using it. 204 00:16:49,296 --> 00:16:58,776 And I think that kind of helped demystify a lot of the reasons that people don't want to self-custody because it's kind of seen as hard. 205 00:16:58,836 --> 00:17:01,036 And it can be hard if you want it to be hard. 206 00:17:01,036 --> 00:17:05,416 But there are now more simpler, easier solutions with like blocks, a big key. 207 00:17:05,896 --> 00:17:10,176 And I think that maybe that'll help people out. 208 00:17:10,316 --> 00:17:11,076 At least I'm hoping. 209 00:17:11,496 --> 00:17:12,516 Yeah, definitely. 210 00:17:13,496 --> 00:17:16,156 A truth you rarely say out loud. 211 00:17:17,496 --> 00:17:20,036 A truth, like a personal truth. 212 00:17:20,036 --> 00:17:38,096 Um, so a lot of times people ask me, um, where, where I see myself in a couple of years in regards to like Noster and in Bitcoin, you know, so I have a full disclosure personal. 213 00:17:38,096 --> 00:17:39,336 I have a fiat job. 214 00:17:39,496 --> 00:17:41,976 I work a fiat job. 215 00:17:42,496 --> 00:17:48,436 And people ask me, would you leave your fiat job and go all in on Bitcoin and Noster if you truly believe it? 216 00:17:48,496 --> 00:17:50,056 People ask me that from time to time. 217 00:17:51,256 --> 00:17:54,336 And I don't know. 218 00:17:55,256 --> 00:17:57,856 Personally, I love my job. 219 00:17:58,556 --> 00:18:01,136 I also love my Noster and Bitcoin job. 220 00:18:02,996 --> 00:18:07,076 But I have a family to think about. 221 00:18:07,076 --> 00:18:32,456 I have a wife, I have two children. And with any career change, that's a risk to take. And maybe if I was younger and my wife and I were newly married or something, I would do it in a heartbeat. But now, I don't know. Things would have to change. But I don't think, like tomorrow, would I do that tomorrow? No. 222 00:18:32,456 --> 00:18:35,656 Maybe six months from now, maybe a year from now, two years from now, who knows? 223 00:18:35,656 --> 00:18:36,616 Who knows what the future holds? 224 00:18:36,716 --> 00:18:37,416 We don't know. 225 00:18:37,416 --> 00:18:43,536 But I think I'll say my cards aren't dealt yet. 226 00:18:43,716 --> 00:18:50,396 And the hand that I have now where I'm able to maintain my fiat existence and mix in my 227 00:18:50,396 --> 00:18:55,036 Bitcoin and Nostra existence, it's a lot of work. 228 00:18:55,456 --> 00:18:59,076 But I'm willing to keep doing everything right now. 229 00:18:59,176 --> 00:19:00,836 So we'll see where I'm at in the future. 230 00:19:00,836 --> 00:19:03,336 Yeah, maybe you're just waiting for the right opportunity. 231 00:19:03,596 --> 00:19:04,956 Maybe I'm just waiting for the right opportunity. 232 00:19:05,216 --> 00:19:05,756 We don't know. 233 00:19:05,916 --> 00:19:06,336 We'll see. 234 00:19:06,976 --> 00:19:11,836 So if your community had to sum you up in one word, what would it be? 235 00:19:12,616 --> 00:19:17,576 I guess that goes back to the Nostra CEO joke in the beginning of this interview. 236 00:19:19,076 --> 00:19:20,376 People love that meme. 237 00:19:20,456 --> 00:19:20,896 They do. 238 00:19:21,356 --> 00:19:25,436 And like I said, I kind of embraced it. 239 00:19:25,476 --> 00:19:29,156 I realized that it's a joke and it's a meme and people have fun with it. 240 00:19:29,156 --> 00:19:40,576 But I also realized that people, you know, I kind of fell into this position two and a half years ago when I first met you down in Costa Rica. 241 00:19:40,756 --> 00:19:44,776 You know, people wanted to hear what I had to say about Noster. 242 00:19:44,936 --> 00:19:48,976 And I fell into this role of, like I said, onboarding and growth and education. 243 00:19:49,476 --> 00:19:52,656 And I've become known for that. 244 00:19:52,656 --> 00:20:03,376 Like yesterday at the conference, I had Jeff Booth up on stage telling everybody that I was Nostra's greeter and to visit me afterwards and I would get them all set up. 245 00:20:03,516 --> 00:20:05,076 And I laughed at that. 246 00:20:05,196 --> 00:20:08,676 You know, like I'm like, you know, I'm like the greeter. 247 00:20:08,816 --> 00:20:10,096 And I do greet people. 248 00:20:10,236 --> 00:20:10,616 I do. 249 00:20:10,676 --> 00:20:12,176 I try to make people feel welcome. 250 00:20:12,356 --> 00:20:15,796 So I think the community would maybe that's it. 251 00:20:15,856 --> 00:20:21,376 Well, instead of Nostra's CEO, we'll go with Jeff Booth's saying and I'm Nostra's greeter. 252 00:20:21,496 --> 00:20:22,836 My one word answer is the greeter. 253 00:20:22,976 --> 00:20:23,156 Yeah. 254 00:20:23,276 --> 00:20:23,536 Yeah. 255 00:20:23,716 --> 00:20:24,476 Sounds great. 256 00:20:25,116 --> 00:20:26,216 And you are actually. 257 00:20:26,756 --> 00:20:29,616 So if someone took over your private keys tomorrow. 258 00:20:29,716 --> 00:20:30,156 For Noster. 259 00:20:30,396 --> 00:20:30,616 Yeah. 260 00:20:30,936 --> 00:20:32,236 How lost would you be? 261 00:20:34,236 --> 00:20:35,376 I'd be really annoyed. 262 00:20:35,376 --> 00:20:36,696 I'd be very angry. 263 00:20:37,576 --> 00:20:45,116 Because on Noster, your private key unlocks your identity. 264 00:20:45,116 --> 00:20:48,336 and I've spent the past two and a half years 265 00:20:48,336 --> 00:20:52,716 becoming Noster's greeter and educator and onboarder 266 00:20:52,716 --> 00:20:55,576 and growth team and all these things we've been talking about. 267 00:20:55,876 --> 00:20:58,436 So I would lose all of that web of trust 268 00:20:58,436 --> 00:21:02,176 and I think that our web of trust, our reputations, 269 00:21:02,996 --> 00:21:05,056 like they're unlocked by your private key. 270 00:21:05,196 --> 00:21:06,676 So I would have to start all over. 271 00:21:07,296 --> 00:21:08,696 That would be very annoying. 272 00:21:08,876 --> 00:21:10,836 I would say a bunch of words 273 00:21:10,836 --> 00:21:14,136 and then I would start all over 274 00:21:14,136 --> 00:21:17,396 because complaining about it isn't going to fix anything. 275 00:21:17,496 --> 00:21:18,896 I'm going to be angry for a while, 276 00:21:19,716 --> 00:21:24,816 but I think I already did it one time. 277 00:21:25,096 --> 00:21:26,976 Proof of work will prevail again, 278 00:21:27,156 --> 00:21:28,996 and I'll start all over again, 279 00:21:29,056 --> 00:21:29,796 and I'll work hard, 280 00:21:29,876 --> 00:21:30,756 and I'll bust my ass, 281 00:21:30,776 --> 00:21:31,596 and I'll do it again. 282 00:21:32,076 --> 00:21:35,176 I truly believe in Noster, in Bitcoin, 283 00:21:35,656 --> 00:21:39,016 so I think that putting the work forward again, 284 00:21:39,196 --> 00:21:40,436 it's worth the battle. 285 00:21:40,516 --> 00:21:41,156 I'll do it again. 286 00:21:41,336 --> 00:21:42,416 I'll hate it in the beginning, 287 00:21:42,416 --> 00:21:46,056 And I'll be annoyed, but I'll do it. 288 00:21:46,796 --> 00:21:50,076 Tell me about a piece of tech you wish existed. 289 00:21:52,516 --> 00:21:55,336 We have them, but they can be improved upon. 290 00:21:55,816 --> 00:22:06,036 I think if we were able to have a better Nostra, like a physical hardware signing device. 291 00:22:06,336 --> 00:22:10,296 Now, these do exist, but we need them to be better. 292 00:22:10,296 --> 00:22:18,236 We need them to be so seamless that maybe it's my smart watch or maybe it's a smart ring that I have. 293 00:22:18,336 --> 00:22:27,076 Something that enables me to always unlock my private key to sign transactions on the go on my mobile device. 294 00:22:27,356 --> 00:22:31,156 Like we have them for I can plug into my computer at home. 295 00:22:31,336 --> 00:22:32,096 But we're mobile. 296 00:22:32,276 --> 00:22:33,416 You know, we're mobile. 297 00:22:33,536 --> 00:22:34,596 We're all the time on the go. 298 00:22:34,696 --> 00:22:37,936 Most people, when they're using Nostra, they're using their phone or something. 299 00:22:37,936 --> 00:22:54,056 If we had a mobile signing device that allowed people to keep their keys safe, and if that device got stolen, they wouldn't be able to have their private key being lost. 300 00:22:54,316 --> 00:23:02,576 If we had some type of delegation, some type of multi-sig, all these things that we have with Bitcoin, basically. 301 00:23:02,576 --> 00:23:05,536 if we had all these things with Noster. 302 00:23:05,696 --> 00:23:09,976 I think in an easy-to-use, user-friendly, user-experienced way, 303 00:23:10,016 --> 00:23:12,556 I think we would have a better time. 304 00:23:12,856 --> 00:23:15,356 Because right now when we start talking about key management 305 00:23:15,356 --> 00:23:18,456 and signing extensions and signing applications, 306 00:23:19,596 --> 00:23:21,116 people, that's too complicated. 307 00:23:21,256 --> 00:23:24,536 That gets back to the overly technical case of Noster. 308 00:23:24,836 --> 00:23:26,896 But we want people to be secure with their keys. 309 00:23:27,336 --> 00:23:29,316 So I think we need a better hardware solution 310 00:23:29,316 --> 00:23:33,636 to allow people to still manage their keys, 311 00:23:33,776 --> 00:23:35,256 but also have it be so easy 312 00:23:35,256 --> 00:23:39,036 that the average non-technical person can use it. 313 00:23:39,636 --> 00:23:41,296 And we'll get there eventually. 314 00:23:41,656 --> 00:23:45,036 I think we have people working on that right now. 315 00:23:46,096 --> 00:23:48,096 Can I ask, what's so complicated 316 00:23:48,096 --> 00:23:49,796 about keeping your private key? 317 00:23:50,056 --> 00:23:52,476 Because I opened my Damos, 318 00:23:52,716 --> 00:23:55,936 I think it was my first client was Damos and then Iris. 319 00:23:56,976 --> 00:23:59,096 For Iris, Marty did it directly. 320 00:23:59,316 --> 00:24:02,136 But for that one, I did it myself. 321 00:24:02,796 --> 00:24:07,356 And it's just like, it is a bunch of digits and that's it. 322 00:24:07,496 --> 00:24:13,456 You just put it there and you make sure that you don't take photos, you don't keep it on the cloud or whatever. 323 00:24:13,836 --> 00:24:14,916 And that's it. 324 00:24:15,116 --> 00:24:18,156 Yeah, so Noster's more than just one app. 325 00:24:18,776 --> 00:24:21,176 Noster is a large ecosystem of applications. 326 00:24:22,276 --> 00:24:28,036 And by design, because it's a large ecosystem, people take their key and put it in one app. 327 00:24:28,036 --> 00:24:30,216 They put it in the second app, third app, fourth app. 328 00:24:30,536 --> 00:24:35,356 And that's probably not the best practice to always be going and putting your key in 329 00:24:35,356 --> 00:24:37,416 all these different apps, right? 330 00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:41,916 The more times that you put something out there, the better chance you have for something 331 00:24:41,916 --> 00:24:44,456 bad to happen, for it to leak, to be stolen, whatever. 332 00:24:44,776 --> 00:24:47,636 Because we're told to keep our private key safe. 333 00:24:47,796 --> 00:24:50,196 But then we're also told, hey, try out this other app. 334 00:24:50,616 --> 00:25:10,914 I read about an app that had a problem and leaked all the private keys So that has happened Back in December of 2022 there was yeah there was an app called enigma it was kind of like telegram on nostr that it was a web app and they had an incident where essentially 335 00:25:10,914 --> 00:25:16,734 private keys may have been leaked like there was a chance that they all could have been leaked 336 00:25:16,734 --> 00:25:23,514 anybody that was signed in at the time and using the app could have had their key leaked um and 337 00:25:23,514 --> 00:25:28,754 And then immediately people thought, okay, we need to come up with better ways to secure people's private keys. 338 00:25:29,054 --> 00:25:33,434 We need to use extensions and key signers and key managers and all this other stuff. 339 00:25:33,434 --> 00:25:34,854 And we do today. 340 00:25:35,394 --> 00:25:42,034 But not every application supports every method of key management, every method of key security. 341 00:25:42,594 --> 00:25:45,634 And that creates a little bit of confusion. 342 00:25:46,474 --> 00:25:48,074 For example, you mentioned Domus. 343 00:25:48,174 --> 00:25:52,954 Like right now, Domus is your key manager, but only for Domus. 344 00:25:53,054 --> 00:25:53,214 Yeah. 345 00:25:53,214 --> 00:25:58,334 But if you wanted to use another, you have to copy and paste it into Iris. 346 00:25:58,834 --> 00:26:04,374 Now, in the future, Will has said that Domus in the future would be your key manager. 347 00:26:04,514 --> 00:26:07,334 You wouldn't have to copy and paste your key into Iris. 348 00:26:07,454 --> 00:26:11,414 You would open up Iris and Domus might pop up and say, hey, this app is trying to use 349 00:26:11,414 --> 00:26:11,834 your key. 350 00:26:12,174 --> 00:26:12,954 Do you want to sign it? 351 00:26:12,994 --> 00:26:13,514 Yes or no? 352 00:26:13,934 --> 00:26:15,654 We don't have that experience yet. 353 00:26:15,874 --> 00:26:20,234 Because right now, if you wanted to use web apps on your iPhone, you have to install an 354 00:26:20,234 --> 00:26:22,354 extension called NoStash. 355 00:26:22,354 --> 00:26:28,134 And then you have to have that extension be supported by the web app that you're trying to use. 356 00:26:28,294 --> 00:26:31,894 And if I'm on Android, it gets even more complicated. 357 00:26:32,034 --> 00:26:32,774 I can't use that. 358 00:26:32,854 --> 00:26:34,574 I have to use another app called Amber. 359 00:26:35,014 --> 00:26:38,674 But maybe the website I'm trying to use doesn't support Amber. 360 00:26:38,954 --> 00:26:40,514 And there's too many ways. 361 00:26:40,774 --> 00:26:44,454 We have multiple ways of securing people's keys, which is great. 362 00:26:44,914 --> 00:26:50,954 But it complicates things because then applications need to figure out, do they want to support a bunker? 363 00:26:50,954 --> 00:26:52,374 Do they want to support Amber? 364 00:26:52,634 --> 00:26:55,954 Do they want to support NSEC, which they probably don't? 365 00:26:56,014 --> 00:26:57,334 Do they want to support an extension? 366 00:26:57,674 --> 00:27:06,754 Like there's so many different ways, which is good to have user choice, but it kind of confuses and makes managing your key harder than it should be. 367 00:27:07,214 --> 00:27:11,174 And we want to make things as easy as they can be and maintain security. 368 00:27:11,294 --> 00:27:12,214 So it's a tough balance. 369 00:27:12,214 --> 00:27:14,754 Like we need to be secure, but also be easy. 370 00:27:14,754 --> 00:27:16,054 and finding that balance. 371 00:27:16,674 --> 00:27:19,754 And everybody has a different way of wanting to do it. 372 00:27:20,334 --> 00:27:21,734 That's the decentralized way, right? 373 00:27:21,754 --> 00:27:23,134 There's no central authority saying, 374 00:27:23,254 --> 00:27:24,494 this is how you have to do it. 375 00:27:24,894 --> 00:27:26,494 Like everybody can have their own way, 376 00:27:26,594 --> 00:27:27,734 which is a blessing. 377 00:27:27,934 --> 00:27:29,074 And it's also a curse too, 378 00:27:29,134 --> 00:27:31,074 because now we have so many different ways of doing it. 379 00:27:31,474 --> 00:27:34,114 That gets back to the whole thing is it's getting easier. 380 00:27:34,414 --> 00:27:35,714 We're going to get real complicated 381 00:27:35,714 --> 00:27:38,454 and then the best methods will be figured out. 382 00:27:38,734 --> 00:27:41,994 They'll be surfaced and then we'll deviate towards those 383 00:27:41,994 --> 00:27:43,574 and hopefully everyone will support them. 384 00:27:43,974 --> 00:27:44,114 Yeah. 385 00:27:44,114 --> 00:27:47,534 So what does it mean to truly own your own identity? 386 00:27:48,114 --> 00:27:51,094 So I think this is a, well, I know this is a new concept. 387 00:27:51,234 --> 00:27:54,734 You've never been able to do this throughout the history of social media. 388 00:27:54,954 --> 00:28:00,634 For the past two decades, you sign in with your username or password to whatever, you 389 00:28:00,634 --> 00:28:02,474 know, Facebook, Twitter, whatever. 390 00:28:03,154 --> 00:28:07,934 And that identity, your name, your content isn't really owned by you. 391 00:28:07,934 --> 00:28:14,094 No one reads the end user license agreements, but it basically says that these entities, 392 00:28:14,114 --> 00:28:19,294 can do whatever they want to with your photos and your content, and you're essentially just 393 00:28:19,294 --> 00:28:25,234 letting them have it. And you're signing in and unlocking your access to it, even though it's 394 00:28:25,234 --> 00:28:34,374 your content. And in theory, they could post content using your username. And you would never 395 00:28:34,374 --> 00:28:39,994 really know that. You wouldn't know that they were doing it. There's no way to verify that 396 00:28:39,994 --> 00:28:44,994 you actually posted that content. Everybody assumes if it came from your account, 397 00:28:45,194 --> 00:28:51,354 you posted it. So you don't really own that identity. It's a username and password. 398 00:28:51,854 --> 00:28:58,594 It's very different from Noster's concept of owning your identity. On Noster, you have this 399 00:28:58,594 --> 00:29:05,574 private key that we keep talking about. And your private key unlocks access to your public key. 400 00:29:05,574 --> 00:29:15,314 And that public key is your identity that you truly own or anybody that has access to your private key truly owns. 401 00:29:15,394 --> 00:29:16,454 That's why you got to keep it safe. 402 00:29:16,814 --> 00:29:24,474 But you can take this identity and you can port it around and you can put it into all the different NOSTER applications that exist. 403 00:29:24,714 --> 00:29:27,254 You can't do that in legacy social media. 404 00:29:27,254 --> 00:29:38,094 I can't take my Twitter account and port it over to YouTube or Instagram and all of my content or all of my follows, my entire social graph doesn't come with me. 405 00:29:38,394 --> 00:29:44,454 These are silos that don't communicate or play well with one another. 406 00:29:44,554 --> 00:29:47,474 They have platform lock-in and that's by design. 407 00:29:47,614 --> 00:29:55,734 They want to keep you on their platform so you continue viewing advertisements, clicking advertisements, generating their money. 408 00:29:55,734 --> 00:30:03,154 whereas with Noster there is no platform lock-in it's by design because you can take your identity 409 00:30:03,154 --> 00:30:08,314 that you own and you can take it and port it into every single Noster app that you want to 410 00:30:08,314 --> 00:30:13,874 and everything comes with you your contacts your follows your user profile like metadata like 411 00:30:13,874 --> 00:30:20,014 everything and that's just a really entirely new concept compared to what we have in the legacy 412 00:30:20,014 --> 00:30:27,334 social media world. Like that's very powerful. A lot of people like that idea. And I think we need 413 00:30:27,334 --> 00:30:34,394 to explain to people like really how powerful that is that you don't have to go and, and maintain 414 00:30:34,394 --> 00:30:40,114 different profiles and nobody can take your profile away from you. Like since you own your 415 00:30:40,114 --> 00:30:46,814 identity on Noster, you can't be banned, but on YouTube, you could post a YouTube video and you 416 00:30:46,814 --> 00:30:52,074 could be banned and all that time and money and effort maybe years you spent building your profile 417 00:30:52,074 --> 00:31:00,594 youtube google they take it away from you on on nostr nobody can take it away from you you truly 418 00:31:00,594 --> 00:31:11,094 own it yeah just an anecdote we launched at the end of january and by march our account on x was 419 00:31:11,094 --> 00:31:11,594 suspended. 420 00:31:12,034 --> 00:31:12,734 So you know. 421 00:31:13,154 --> 00:31:22,254 And you know, you feel helpless and nauseous because there it goes, all the content you 422 00:31:22,254 --> 00:31:24,814 created, you don't know why. 423 00:31:25,654 --> 00:31:29,414 Then I think when it happens to you, then is when you get it. 424 00:31:29,694 --> 00:31:29,834 Yeah. 425 00:31:29,954 --> 00:31:33,354 You get like, on Nosta, I cannot have this problem. 426 00:31:33,574 --> 00:31:33,974 Absolutely. 427 00:31:34,414 --> 00:31:35,534 It can't happen. 428 00:31:35,534 --> 00:31:35,794 It can't happen. 429 00:31:35,794 --> 00:31:43,394 and let and if it would happen let's say if if whatever nostor app we keep talking about domus 430 00:31:43,394 --> 00:31:48,774 domus probably won't do this but but for example if if domus decided i don't like you and i'm gonna 431 00:31:48,774 --> 00:31:57,134 ban you that sucks but okay i'll take my profile my nsec i'll pop it into to uh another app to 432 00:31:57,134 --> 00:32:03,134 primal for example and i'll sign in and there you go all my stuff is with me and then if primal says 433 00:32:03,134 --> 00:32:08,534 hey, I don't like you, I'm going to ban you. That sucks. Okay, I'll take my key and I'll pop it into 434 00:32:08,534 --> 00:32:13,174 Iris. There's dozens of other apps. And even if all of the apps for some reason ban you, 435 00:32:13,454 --> 00:32:19,534 you can run your own app on your own home computer that's installed and running on your 436 00:32:19,534 --> 00:32:24,834 home computer or home server. You can run your own. If Twitter bans me, I can't run my own Twitter 437 00:32:24,834 --> 00:32:32,194 off of my home computer or home server. I'm banned. Where Nostra, you have that opportunity. 438 00:32:32,194 --> 00:32:33,854 You, it's really hard. 439 00:32:34,174 --> 00:32:35,774 Like you can't ban somebody. 440 00:32:35,914 --> 00:32:41,694 You could play a game of whack-a-mole and relays could ban you and clients can ban you, 441 00:32:41,714 --> 00:32:46,314 but you can jump around and port your whole entire social graph and all your content. 442 00:32:46,414 --> 00:32:46,994 You own it. 443 00:32:47,274 --> 00:32:48,434 So you can take it with you. 444 00:32:48,794 --> 00:32:51,554 It's really, you can't really effectively ban somebody. 445 00:32:52,394 --> 00:32:54,854 What does censorship feel like? 446 00:32:54,994 --> 00:32:56,994 Not just in theory, but in your body. 447 00:32:56,994 --> 00:33:06,994 So, as far as I can tell, I've never been censored. Maybe I have, I don't know. I'm sure 448 00:33:06,994 --> 00:33:10,994 someone's like, oh, I don't like that guy and they're going to mute me or whatever. But 449 00:33:10,994 --> 00:33:19,934 I think that censorship is hard to understand if it's never happened to you. This is one of the 450 00:33:19,992 --> 00:33:25,812 learned over the years that just because it doesn't happen to me or hasn't happened to me 451 00:33:25,812 --> 00:33:31,252 or hasn't happened to a friend or family member doesn't mean it's not important, right? Like I 452 00:33:31,252 --> 00:33:36,332 need to look outside my social circles and look outside my purview and realize that there's people 453 00:33:36,332 --> 00:33:42,292 all over the world that get censored for just having different opinions or thoughts or saying 454 00:33:42,292 --> 00:33:47,892 the wrong word or someone's interpretation of the wrong word or overaggressive algorithms banning 455 00:33:47,892 --> 00:33:54,992 people for no reason. I think we live in a, sadly, we live in like a censorship society. 456 00:33:55,552 --> 00:34:01,992 Like you can literally see it getting worse. And this took me a while to realize, 457 00:34:02,572 --> 00:34:10,292 but it doesn't matter what I say. And if I say, I'm not doing anything wrong to be censored. I'm 458 00:34:10,292 --> 00:34:13,692 not saying anything or doing anything or posting anything that's going to get me censored. 459 00:34:13,692 --> 00:34:18,792 It doesn't matter what I say. It matters what other people's interpretation of that is. 460 00:34:19,292 --> 00:34:23,752 So I could think today that I'm sitting here saying that censorship is bad. 461 00:34:24,632 --> 00:34:32,092 And right now, that's maybe fine. But maybe a year from now, somebody watches or listens to this podcast and says, they're talking about censorship. 462 00:34:32,292 --> 00:34:37,992 We need to censor that guy for mentioning censorship. Today, it's okay. But two years from now, who knows? Maybe that's bad. 463 00:34:37,992 --> 00:35:04,392 And now I'm censored everywhere and blocked and banned everywhere because I originally said two years ago that censorship was bad. And that could happen. It's other people's interpretation. And I think that once we realize that it's not your interpretation, it's someone else's interpretation, people that are controlling the platform that have the capability to censor, it's on them that you don't know what they're going to think. 464 00:35:04,392 --> 00:35:09,632 it's up to their opinion and and up to their action and because they can do it they're going 465 00:35:09,632 --> 00:35:17,152 to do it we we see this happening every day now um and i think that that's why i like nostr is that 466 00:35:17,152 --> 00:35:23,032 maybe i don't have anything that's been censored but but i understand that every day over the world 467 00:35:23,032 --> 00:35:29,552 there's entire groups of people that are censored and that they need nostr and that's that's kind of 468 00:35:29,552 --> 00:35:33,152 like what makes me bullish on NOSTER is that this can exist for them. 469 00:35:33,472 --> 00:35:35,192 I don't remember the number. 470 00:35:35,292 --> 00:35:36,332 I don't work for HRF, 471 00:35:36,392 --> 00:35:39,892 but they know the exact number of how many percent of people in the world 472 00:35:39,892 --> 00:35:41,292 live under oppressive regimes. 473 00:35:41,292 --> 00:35:42,732 And it's some number, 474 00:35:42,872 --> 00:35:45,052 like some insanely high number. 475 00:35:45,332 --> 00:35:48,072 And those people need NOSTER more than I do. 476 00:35:49,012 --> 00:35:50,732 Everybody can use NOSTER. 477 00:35:51,052 --> 00:35:52,892 We are talking about the free world, 478 00:35:53,032 --> 00:35:54,492 which I know it doesn't exist, 479 00:35:54,872 --> 00:35:56,732 but let's say that we live in the free world. 480 00:35:56,952 --> 00:35:58,392 I mentioned X. 481 00:35:58,572 --> 00:35:58,752 Yeah. 482 00:35:58,752 --> 00:36:01,132 We got suspended in March. 483 00:36:01,412 --> 00:36:06,752 By June or the beginning of July, we were already shadow banned with another episode. 484 00:36:07,272 --> 00:36:09,372 I mean, YouTube has shadow banned us. 485 00:36:09,612 --> 00:36:10,352 It's just... 486 00:36:10,352 --> 00:36:12,672 Are we going to get shadow banned now for talking about censorship? 487 00:36:12,932 --> 00:36:14,172 I personally... 488 00:36:14,172 --> 00:36:14,932 I think so. 489 00:36:14,932 --> 00:36:15,652 I hope not. 490 00:36:15,672 --> 00:36:16,152 I'm sorry. 491 00:36:16,672 --> 00:36:17,372 I think so. 492 00:36:17,672 --> 00:36:21,552 But I was recently talking to Ben Perrin for PTC Sessions. 493 00:36:21,592 --> 00:36:21,772 Yes. 494 00:36:22,152 --> 00:36:23,232 And he was... 495 00:36:23,232 --> 00:36:23,832 That was recent. 496 00:36:24,072 --> 00:36:24,312 Yes. 497 00:36:24,552 --> 00:36:26,632 He was banned by YouTube. 498 00:36:27,592 --> 00:36:30,772 And he had a large, successful channel for years. 499 00:36:31,072 --> 00:36:38,192 Nine years of content and like 300,000 followers, I think, more or less, or maybe even 400,000. 500 00:36:38,332 --> 00:36:38,572 Yeah. 501 00:36:39,012 --> 00:36:40,012 Very successful. 502 00:36:40,372 --> 00:36:41,092 Very successful. 503 00:36:41,092 --> 00:36:50,812 He got unfairly banned, and he was rightly reinstated because of his following and the public support. 504 00:36:51,632 --> 00:36:58,372 But in my case, for example, we go unnoticed because we just launched and we don't have that many followers. 505 00:36:58,532 --> 00:37:11,632 It makes me think of the amount of people that have been censored and the amount of people that have been suspended, that just been silenced through our legacy platforms. 506 00:37:11,852 --> 00:37:13,332 And that's not happening in China. 507 00:37:13,492 --> 00:37:16,532 I mean, it's happening in China as well as it is happening here. 508 00:37:16,532 --> 00:37:31,912 Yeah, we think when the average person hears censorship or something, they think about China and the Great Firewall of China, how the Chinese people can't search for certain things on the internet or even access certain things on the internet. 509 00:37:32,632 --> 00:37:35,892 And they don't realize that it's literally happening elsewhere in the world. 510 00:37:36,092 --> 00:37:38,512 It's literally happening in the UK right now. 511 00:37:39,072 --> 00:37:41,372 It's wild to watch it happen. 512 00:37:41,752 --> 00:37:43,052 It's surprising. 513 00:37:43,052 --> 00:37:52,692 right like it's it's moving very fast this like i think gg said this recently and i have similar 514 00:37:52,692 --> 00:37:58,092 thoughts on it too is that the internet is like diverging in two separate ways we have like the 515 00:37:58,092 --> 00:38:04,972 kyc permissioned censored internet over here and then we have this small divergent like open and 516 00:38:04,972 --> 00:38:10,852 free permissionless internet that's starting to emerge and gain traction and that's probably going 517 00:38:10,852 --> 00:38:17,432 the split, the divide is probably going to continue for a while as big tech companies 518 00:38:17,432 --> 00:38:23,832 and governments continue to do their thing. And then we'll have the resistance going the open and 519 00:38:23,832 --> 00:38:28,952 permissionless route over here. And that's a selling point for an Austrian for Bitcoin. 520 00:38:29,192 --> 00:38:33,052 So as long as they keep marketing for us, we're going to keep building, right? 521 00:38:33,852 --> 00:38:37,092 Are you building something or defending something right now? 522 00:38:37,092 --> 00:38:47,652 um so i got into vibe coding a few months ago okay and vibe coding is essentially using ai to build 523 00:38:47,652 --> 00:38:52,392 like you don't need to be a developer you don't need to be a programmer you just need to have an 524 00:38:52,392 --> 00:39:01,212 idea and you can build something from idea to prototype incredibly quickly and i fell in love 525 00:39:01,212 --> 00:39:10,452 with it because I'm not a developer. So if you're a technical person, you'll know that I'm a systems 526 00:39:10,452 --> 00:39:15,832 administrator. I do very little actual development. I do a lot of technical stuff, but I'm not going 527 00:39:15,832 --> 00:39:20,952 to develop a full blown application. That's just, I'm just not going to. I'll maybe do bits and 528 00:39:20,952 --> 00:39:26,292 pieces of it. But people that are not technical look at that and say, oh, well, Derek's a developer. 529 00:39:26,292 --> 00:39:29,952 Well, I mean, not really, but okay, sure. 530 00:39:30,152 --> 00:39:32,632 But now with Vibe Coding, I can literally be a developer. 531 00:39:32,872 --> 00:39:35,892 I've made so many apps and tools over the past four months. 532 00:39:36,312 --> 00:39:37,032 And I love it. 533 00:39:37,072 --> 00:39:42,472 Like I'm making tools that I've always wanted, apps I've always wanted, or maybe an existing 534 00:39:42,472 --> 00:39:48,032 app exists, but I wish it had a few extra features, a few bells and whistles. 535 00:39:48,812 --> 00:39:51,572 I can make my own application and I use it. 536 00:39:51,592 --> 00:39:54,952 And every single app that I've made, it's literally been an app that I want to use. 537 00:39:54,952 --> 00:39:58,312 And some of them have actually seen some user traction. 538 00:39:58,452 --> 00:39:59,712 A lot of people are using them. 539 00:39:59,852 --> 00:40:01,832 And then others, there's only maybe a couple. 540 00:40:02,112 --> 00:40:04,132 Maybe I'm the only one that uses my music app. 541 00:40:04,152 --> 00:40:04,552 I don't know. 542 00:40:04,732 --> 00:40:07,832 But I wanted it to exist, and now it does. 543 00:40:07,952 --> 00:40:10,612 So I've built many different apps. 544 00:40:10,712 --> 00:40:14,852 I'm using a tool from a company called Soapbox. 545 00:40:15,012 --> 00:40:21,532 It's actually, full disclosure, I am now doing developer relations for Soapbox. 546 00:40:21,532 --> 00:40:26,932 Like I'm essentially a paid shill, I like to say. 547 00:40:26,992 --> 00:40:27,592 I like to joke. 548 00:40:28,132 --> 00:40:30,552 They're paying me to do developer relations. 549 00:40:30,712 --> 00:40:32,412 It's what I've always done with Nostra. 550 00:40:32,992 --> 00:40:33,212 Yeah. 551 00:40:33,352 --> 00:40:34,392 PR is what you mean? 552 00:40:34,552 --> 00:40:34,772 Yeah. 553 00:40:34,912 --> 00:40:36,872 So I do that like a little bit. 554 00:40:37,332 --> 00:40:39,172 Developer relations is like, it's a lot. 555 00:40:39,232 --> 00:40:40,232 It's like a little bit of PR. 556 00:40:40,412 --> 00:40:41,712 It's a little bit of marketing. 557 00:40:42,132 --> 00:40:46,112 It's a little bit of onboarding, a little bit of community management, community growth, 558 00:40:46,272 --> 00:40:48,072 all rolled into this one role. 559 00:40:48,512 --> 00:40:50,492 So I talked to the developers. 560 00:40:50,492 --> 00:40:51,532 I talk to the team. 561 00:40:51,632 --> 00:40:52,612 I talk to the community. 562 00:40:52,912 --> 00:40:54,152 I do all this stuff. 563 00:40:54,212 --> 00:40:56,072 So they're paying me part-time now to do this. 564 00:40:56,172 --> 00:40:59,052 Maybe this turns into the full-time gig later on. 565 00:40:59,112 --> 00:40:59,512 We don't know. 566 00:40:59,732 --> 00:41:07,232 But right now, so I'm using a tool from them, this company, to VibeCode, to develop apps, 567 00:41:07,412 --> 00:41:10,392 and to turn my ideas into applications. 568 00:41:10,632 --> 00:41:13,732 And because I'm doing it, I think it's so cool. 569 00:41:13,832 --> 00:41:16,112 I'm telling other people, you can do this too. 570 00:41:16,112 --> 00:41:42,108 So real quick I made an Instagram app called Zapics like Zapics because we didn have one that worked on Noster There was an app called Olas by Pablo It was great But Pablo likes to jump around from idea to idea a lot And I felt that Olos was kind of abandoned for now at least And I would 571 00:41:42,108 --> 00:41:50,748 like the idea. So I made my own. I made a Zap analytics website just as, so if you're a creator 572 00:41:50,748 --> 00:41:55,548 and you get a lot of Zaps, maybe you want to figure out what piece of content is doing really 573 00:41:55,548 --> 00:42:01,608 well for you in terms of like zap. So I made a Noster analytics app. I made a Noster music app. 574 00:42:01,668 --> 00:42:06,848 They had a couple of extra features. I made a, an event, bright meetup type app called Plectos 575 00:42:06,848 --> 00:42:13,628 for scheduling Noster events, meetups. It's a essentially event, bright, but built on Noster 576 00:42:13,628 --> 00:42:19,168 and a couple other apps here and there, podcast app, just things that I wanted to build to use 577 00:42:19,168 --> 00:42:24,688 myself. So, uh, I'm, I'm building all sorts of stuff now. Thanks to Noster and AI. 578 00:42:25,548 --> 00:42:29,588 So did you get the job before playing with the tool? 579 00:42:29,728 --> 00:42:32,268 Yeah, I found the tool and I started playing with it. 580 00:42:32,828 --> 00:42:37,648 And if you know me, if I'm passionate about something, I'm going to talk about it because 581 00:42:37,648 --> 00:42:39,188 I like to talk about my passions. 582 00:42:39,408 --> 00:42:41,228 I like to educate people with technology. 583 00:42:41,388 --> 00:42:43,128 That's pretty much my whole thing. 584 00:42:43,188 --> 00:42:45,508 It's been my whole thing, my whole entire career. 585 00:42:45,748 --> 00:42:50,388 So I started using this new tool and started making things. 586 00:42:50,468 --> 00:42:51,728 I'm like, wow, this is really cool. 587 00:42:51,848 --> 00:42:53,428 Other people need to know how to do this. 588 00:42:53,428 --> 00:43:19,388 So I started talking about what I was doing. And then Alex Gleason from Soapbox, he approached me. He's like, hey, we should talk. And essentially it was, you know, we like all the stuff that you do. Do you want to continue doing it, but also focus instead of like the wide scope of all of Noster, also talk about our stuff a little bit and we could pay you to talk about our stuff. 589 00:43:19,948 --> 00:43:21,648 And I said, oh, that's a thing? 590 00:43:21,728 --> 00:43:22,448 I can do that? 591 00:43:23,228 --> 00:43:24,428 I didn't realize that. 592 00:43:24,468 --> 00:43:27,528 Okay, let me figure out what developer relations means. 593 00:43:28,388 --> 00:43:32,408 And I researched it and I was like, oh, I've been doing this for two and a half years, 594 00:43:32,508 --> 00:43:34,308 but I haven't been getting paid for it. 595 00:43:34,648 --> 00:43:37,328 So you're going to, wait, you're going to pay me for what I've already been doing? 596 00:43:37,428 --> 00:43:38,868 Oh my God, that's a dream come true. 597 00:43:39,328 --> 00:43:41,828 This is maybe like earlier you asked about like, 598 00:43:41,888 --> 00:43:45,948 what's something that I maybe want to do and don't really know about me. 599 00:43:45,948 --> 00:43:50,208 And I said, well, maybe someday I'd like to leave my fiat job and do Bitcoin and Nostra only. 600 00:43:50,368 --> 00:43:53,908 So I don't know what the future holds, but this is a step in that direction. 601 00:43:54,128 --> 00:43:55,408 We'll see if that happens. 602 00:43:55,508 --> 00:43:56,028 I don't know. 603 00:43:56,248 --> 00:44:02,528 But I'm super happy to be able to get paid for something that I love to do. 604 00:44:02,908 --> 00:44:04,068 So I'm embracing it. 605 00:44:04,108 --> 00:44:05,128 I'm talking about it. 606 00:44:05,668 --> 00:44:06,628 I love it. 607 00:44:06,868 --> 00:44:09,128 The team is a great team, great people. 608 00:44:09,408 --> 00:44:13,588 And it's allowing me to continue my work. 609 00:44:13,588 --> 00:44:18,248 what scares you more being misunderstood or being ignored 610 00:44:18,248 --> 00:44:25,588 you know i would we're gonna get back to what i said like one of the very first questions i would 611 00:44:25,588 --> 00:44:30,728 say being misunderstood i like to say that i don't care what people think about me and that's 612 00:44:30,728 --> 00:44:39,868 generally true generally true however i don't want people to have a misconception about what i'm doing 613 00:44:39,868 --> 00:44:43,508 and the whole like joke of like the Nostra CEO thing. 614 00:44:43,588 --> 00:44:45,528 Like I don't want, you know, 615 00:44:45,568 --> 00:44:50,608 I don't want to be seen as some, you know, 616 00:44:50,668 --> 00:44:52,968 clout seeker or some like influencer 617 00:44:52,968 --> 00:44:56,148 trying to make their mark or something like that. 618 00:44:56,168 --> 00:44:57,748 That's literally not me. 619 00:44:57,748 --> 00:45:00,028 I literally hate those types of people. 620 00:45:00,968 --> 00:45:02,648 And that's a fear. 621 00:45:03,008 --> 00:45:07,788 Like that's a fear as I kind of get more well-known 622 00:45:07,788 --> 00:45:09,228 in the Nostra space. 623 00:45:09,868 --> 00:45:14,268 I don't want people to think badly or ill of me. 624 00:45:14,508 --> 00:45:17,948 And I like to say, I don't care what people think. 625 00:45:17,968 --> 00:45:19,148 I'm going to continue doing it. 626 00:45:19,368 --> 00:45:20,128 But I'm a human. 627 00:45:20,128 --> 00:45:28,408 I don't want people, especially if I'm trying to do good and people have a bad misconception of me. 628 00:45:28,608 --> 00:45:33,808 Being misunderstood, I would say, is definitely a fear in the back of my mind. 629 00:45:35,028 --> 00:45:38,328 When do you let things slide and when do you push back? 630 00:45:38,328 --> 00:45:42,168 I'll say it depends. 631 00:45:42,868 --> 00:45:53,108 You know, if someone is critical or says something that I don't agree with or critical of me or critical of something I support has a question, I'll respond once or twice. 632 00:45:53,308 --> 00:45:57,528 But then after that, I realized that I'm not going to change their opinion. 633 00:45:57,528 --> 00:45:58,408 And that's fine. 634 00:45:58,548 --> 00:45:59,488 Like, I'll move on. 635 00:45:59,568 --> 00:46:02,028 Like, I'm here doing my thing. 636 00:46:02,148 --> 00:46:03,328 I'm trying to do my thing. 637 00:46:03,328 --> 00:46:09,288 And if I'm not able to convince them or change their opinion right away, then that's fine. 638 00:46:09,368 --> 00:46:11,368 I'm not here to do that. 639 00:46:11,828 --> 00:46:14,848 I'll continue on doing my work and pushing forward. 640 00:46:15,648 --> 00:46:18,848 And if I change their opinion in the future, that's cool. 641 00:46:18,908 --> 00:46:20,188 And if I don't, that's cool too. 642 00:46:20,328 --> 00:46:22,748 Like I have more important things to do. 643 00:46:22,868 --> 00:46:23,848 And when do you push back? 644 00:46:24,028 --> 00:46:24,868 When do I push back? 645 00:46:25,328 --> 00:46:30,908 I guess if someone is really critical about something I feel really passionate about. 646 00:46:30,908 --> 00:46:33,168 Give me an example. 647 00:46:33,328 --> 00:46:41,728 Okay, I'll use a personal example here. 648 00:46:43,088 --> 00:46:44,948 Family is extremely important to me. 649 00:46:45,208 --> 00:46:46,888 I love my family more than anything. 650 00:46:47,468 --> 00:46:51,288 And sometimes my, I have three sisters. 651 00:46:51,408 --> 00:46:53,708 I love them all dearly and would do anything for any of them. 652 00:46:53,968 --> 00:47:00,368 But me being the older brother, you know, sometimes I have a sister that we don't always see eye to eye. 653 00:47:00,368 --> 00:47:02,508 We don't always agree on. 654 00:47:02,508 --> 00:47:17,528 And sometimes, you know, I try to be very helpful and sometimes I guess my helpfulness isn't seen the way that I would think that it is. 655 00:47:17,528 --> 00:47:30,228 And we, my one sister and I have butted heads numerous, numerous times to the point where like she was very, very angry with me and we didn't talk for a very long time. 656 00:47:30,228 --> 00:47:34,408 And I tried to reach out a few times and realized it just wasn't getting anywhere. 657 00:47:36,088 --> 00:47:42,148 I let it go for a while and tried not to let it bother me. 658 00:47:42,148 --> 00:47:47,668 And eventually, you know, we were now closer and things worked out. 659 00:47:47,748 --> 00:47:52,608 But therefore, I would say the better part of a year or more, like we didn't really talk. 660 00:47:53,428 --> 00:47:58,688 And so that was, again, as an older brother, it was hard. 661 00:47:59,048 --> 00:48:02,448 But I let it go for a little bit. 662 00:48:02,508 --> 00:48:08,468 But then I kept continuing to reach out, kept continuing to reach out, just trying to reconcile the relationship. 663 00:48:08,468 --> 00:48:09,428 Because I love my sister. 664 00:48:09,428 --> 00:48:20,688 I wanted to make sure that I was in my niece's lives at the time, and now she has a little boy, and my nephew's life and everything. 665 00:48:20,868 --> 00:48:26,328 So I worked really hard to foster that relationship, let her know that my intentions were good. 666 00:48:26,388 --> 00:48:27,808 I'm sorry if they were misunderstood. 667 00:48:28,148 --> 00:48:34,628 I was legitimately trying to help her out, trying to reconcile the relationship. 668 00:48:34,808 --> 00:48:36,748 And after a while, a year or so, we did. 669 00:48:36,748 --> 00:48:43,568 I think that the pushback is, you know, that it's hard. 670 00:48:44,428 --> 00:48:48,768 It was hard for me because I legitimately was trying to do good 671 00:48:48,768 --> 00:48:54,128 and I was seen as was doing bad and I didn't want to be misunderstood. 672 00:48:54,448 --> 00:48:57,768 So I was constantly reaching out to her for a while, 673 00:48:57,888 --> 00:49:00,828 trying to save the relationship, I guess. 674 00:49:01,228 --> 00:49:01,448 Yeah. 675 00:49:01,528 --> 00:49:02,488 But we're good now. 676 00:49:03,048 --> 00:49:04,308 Blood, complicated. 677 00:49:04,648 --> 00:49:04,988 Yeah. 678 00:49:05,328 --> 00:49:06,448 Family's complicated. 679 00:49:06,448 --> 00:49:07,808 Yeah, blood is really complicated. 680 00:49:09,128 --> 00:49:11,748 What's something you believe that gets you into trouble? 681 00:49:15,528 --> 00:49:21,448 We're going to go back to my one sister, who I absolutely love more than anything. 682 00:49:21,548 --> 00:49:24,388 But her and I, we're very politically different. 683 00:49:25,348 --> 00:49:27,008 And that's one of those things, right? 684 00:49:27,108 --> 00:49:31,188 Like you grow up your whole life, you're told you don't discuss politics with family. 685 00:49:31,788 --> 00:49:33,728 Well, damn it, sometimes we did. 686 00:49:33,728 --> 00:49:48,444 And getting into trouble with her talking about politics every single time there no way around it She very very passionate with her politics I love her more than anything but I can comment because if I do 687 00:49:49,584 --> 00:49:57,344 I'm the asshole and it will never not be seen like that. So I don't normally bite my tongue, 688 00:49:57,904 --> 00:50:03,844 but every time if she were to say something and she carries her politics very close to heart. 689 00:50:03,844 --> 00:50:10,984 and if I were to say anything, no matter what, I'm immediately wrong and I'm the asshole. 690 00:50:11,244 --> 00:50:16,324 So I bite my tongue. I realized that was something that we can never talk about and that's fine. 691 00:50:16,644 --> 00:50:20,964 That's fine. We'll talk about other stuff that we have in common. And since then, 692 00:50:20,964 --> 00:50:24,024 our relationship's gotten much better since we don't talk about those things. 693 00:50:24,704 --> 00:50:30,984 Yeah. I don't know what's with family that you go from zero to a hundred in just a few seconds. 694 00:50:30,984 --> 00:50:52,324 Oh my God, we do. It's literally, literally zero to a hundred. And I like turn around and look at my other family members. I'm like, what just happened? And then my parents see me as the asshole. I'm the older brother that picked a fight with my younger sister. And I'm like, I didn't do anything. 695 00:50:52,324 --> 00:50:58,984 Well, in a way you did, because you know, experience, you know, what's going to happen. 696 00:50:59,364 --> 00:51:00,384 Whose side are you on here? 697 00:51:00,984 --> 00:51:06,364 I know. I know what would happen if I made a comment. So that's why I don't talk anymore. 698 00:51:07,124 --> 00:51:14,564 If something political comes up, I don't pay attention because I would rather us not fight 699 00:51:14,564 --> 00:51:20,964 and go from zero to a hundred. Like you said, it's much easier to just talk about something else. 700 00:51:21,084 --> 00:51:27,304 You know, maybe that's why I started this podcast because my main reason is because 701 00:51:27,304 --> 00:51:32,784 I really want to learn by having these conversations with you and all my guests, 702 00:51:32,844 --> 00:51:38,204 I really learn. But because I have been this conversation with you, I don't really need to 703 00:51:38,204 --> 00:51:43,084 have them with my family anymore. Yeah, that's kind of what I realized. Is it right? Like, 704 00:51:43,084 --> 00:51:46,944 as long as you have somebody to talk to, and you can be open and talk about things, 705 00:51:47,044 --> 00:51:50,224 and people aren't going to fly off the handle and be enraged at you for just 706 00:51:50,224 --> 00:51:55,824 having an opinion, then that's fine. If you can't do with your born in blood family, 707 00:51:55,824 --> 00:51:58,684 You can do it with your found family, right? 708 00:51:58,724 --> 00:51:59,684 Like you can do it with others. 709 00:51:59,984 --> 00:52:00,144 Yeah. 710 00:52:00,764 --> 00:52:05,944 What's one idea you changed your mind about since you started building in public? 711 00:52:07,164 --> 00:52:08,244 Oh, this will be a good one. 712 00:52:10,084 --> 00:52:19,404 Whenever the COVID lockdown started happening, smaller restrictions, I was fine with. 713 00:52:19,404 --> 00:52:26,304 I was like, if that's what we need to do to stop, you know, to save some lives, I don't mind doing a few things. 714 00:52:26,304 --> 00:52:26,904 No big deal. 715 00:52:26,944 --> 00:52:28,704 But then it just kept getting worse and worse and worse. 716 00:52:28,704 --> 00:52:32,784 And in the beginning, like, I was all for it. 717 00:52:33,184 --> 00:52:38,144 But then as things got worse and escalated over time, it really started making me think. 718 00:52:39,024 --> 00:52:45,984 And my opinion on that over the years has now gone 180 degrees. 719 00:52:45,984 --> 00:52:52,984 Like in the beginning, like I said, I was like, whatever, you know, if we need to do that, like, sure, no big deal. 720 00:52:53,004 --> 00:52:54,804 It's not going to hurt me in the grand scheme of things. 721 00:52:54,804 --> 00:52:55,284 I don't care. 722 00:52:55,744 --> 00:53:03,844 But then, you know, it gets worse and worse and a lot more lockdowns, more restrictions, more changes, more regulations, more rules. 723 00:53:03,844 --> 00:53:06,624 And and I started looking at that and it really. 724 00:53:08,264 --> 00:53:10,164 Changed my perception on a lot of stuff. 725 00:53:10,164 --> 00:53:16,084 So I've changed my thoughts on the whole COVID lockdowns over the past five years. 726 00:53:16,324 --> 00:53:25,044 Like, you know, 2020 and 2021, maybe, Derek, very different than 22, 23, 24, 25, Derek. 727 00:53:25,224 --> 00:53:29,384 Like, it took a little bit of time, but I changed my thoughts on that. 728 00:53:30,624 --> 00:53:33,424 Tell me about a time you felt like you said too much. 729 00:53:34,724 --> 00:53:37,044 Apart from when you are with your sister. 730 00:53:37,044 --> 00:53:52,944 Apart from that, oh man, maybe I just, maybe just right now, maybe I just, since I was originally, you know, I wouldn't say a fan, but I was okay with the original, the initial like COVID restrictions. 731 00:53:53,444 --> 00:53:54,984 Maybe I said too much right there. 732 00:53:55,044 --> 00:54:01,144 Maybe people are going to watch this like, oh, Derek was a, you know, a COVID whatever, you know, he was all for it. 733 00:54:01,144 --> 00:54:03,364 But in the beginning, sure. 734 00:54:03,464 --> 00:54:08,284 But once things got worse, I would say probably for a lot of things. 735 00:54:08,284 --> 00:54:09,984 Like I'm a very opinionated guy. 736 00:54:10,124 --> 00:54:12,384 I have various opinions on a lot of things. 737 00:54:12,384 --> 00:54:17,804 And in the beginning of stages, until you have a lot of more knowledge about something, 738 00:54:17,904 --> 00:54:20,384 like I could be right and wrong about everything. 739 00:54:20,544 --> 00:54:21,564 And that's fine. 740 00:54:21,844 --> 00:54:25,704 I'm perfectly happy to have one thought on something. 741 00:54:26,224 --> 00:54:30,704 And then as time goes on, you learn more and more information becomes available. 742 00:54:30,704 --> 00:54:33,104 You learn more and then you change your opinion. 743 00:54:33,104 --> 00:54:34,744 That's literally how humans work. 744 00:54:34,884 --> 00:54:35,024 Yeah. 745 00:54:35,584 --> 00:54:37,944 And some people don't like that. 746 00:54:38,064 --> 00:54:40,304 Some people don't like that you change your mind. 747 00:54:40,504 --> 00:54:42,324 And and that's weird. 748 00:54:42,324 --> 00:54:47,124 We should be able to change our minds and have opinions as more information becomes available. 749 00:54:47,124 --> 00:54:54,784 So I'm sure that that me saying those things, I'm sure is going to piss off a small subset of people. 750 00:54:54,884 --> 00:54:58,524 That's just they don't believe that, you know, people are allowed to change. 751 00:54:59,424 --> 00:54:59,904 Wow. 752 00:55:00,284 --> 00:55:00,564 Yeah. 753 00:55:00,704 --> 00:55:02,184 you need to change. 754 00:55:03,144 --> 00:55:04,664 It's the only way to evolve. 755 00:55:04,784 --> 00:55:06,364 Yeah, but people don't like that. 756 00:55:06,624 --> 00:55:08,864 People don't like that people evolve and change. 757 00:55:09,004 --> 00:55:09,584 And it's weird. 758 00:55:09,704 --> 00:55:10,884 Like, why can't I do that? 759 00:55:10,924 --> 00:55:11,624 Why can't I grow? 760 00:55:12,064 --> 00:55:13,704 Maybe I thought one way at one point, 761 00:55:13,784 --> 00:55:15,264 now because I'm thinking differently, 762 00:55:15,384 --> 00:55:16,324 like that's bad. 763 00:55:17,004 --> 00:55:19,664 I also think there is really, really, really easy 764 00:55:19,664 --> 00:55:21,364 to tell the story backwards. 765 00:55:21,884 --> 00:55:26,944 You know, now to say that I was against it 766 00:55:26,944 --> 00:55:28,324 from the very, very beginning. 767 00:55:28,324 --> 00:55:30,464 I was more on your side. 768 00:55:30,704 --> 00:55:34,324 You take a little bit of shit, a little bit more, and then you get to a point that you 769 00:55:34,324 --> 00:55:35,104 say, no, wait a minute. 770 00:55:35,404 --> 00:55:35,764 Yeah. 771 00:55:35,904 --> 00:55:37,764 I need to rethink all this. 772 00:55:37,864 --> 00:55:38,084 Yeah. 773 00:55:38,164 --> 00:55:39,824 That's exactly what happened to me. 774 00:55:39,884 --> 00:55:40,944 It was like, eh, it's no big deal. 775 00:55:41,064 --> 00:55:41,884 Eh, it's no big deal. 776 00:55:42,144 --> 00:55:42,504 Eh. 777 00:55:43,504 --> 00:55:43,864 Okay. 778 00:55:44,144 --> 00:55:45,684 Now I'm thinking about a little bit more. 779 00:55:45,884 --> 00:55:49,544 Like, yeah, you change over time. 780 00:55:49,604 --> 00:55:50,044 You adapt. 781 00:55:50,044 --> 00:55:53,924 But I think, I mean, the majority of people are that way. 782 00:55:54,144 --> 00:55:54,244 Yeah. 783 00:55:55,284 --> 00:55:58,904 A moment you felt proud and alone at the same time. 784 00:55:59,644 --> 00:56:00,524 Proud and alone. 785 00:56:00,704 --> 00:56:05,524 well as soon as you start saying proud i was like oh man i'm gonna talk about my son because i love 786 00:56:05,524 --> 00:56:10,604 being a dad but then he said in alone and i'm like okay i don't know if i don't know you can i can't 787 00:56:10,604 --> 00:56:15,024 do that no that didn't work in the beginning i was like oh i'm gonna this is gonna be a fun 788 00:56:15,024 --> 00:56:20,144 question but then proud and alone um it's a fine question yeah yeah but i don't i don't know how 789 00:56:20,144 --> 00:56:28,424 proud and alone um in my case when i launched all in bitcoin the podcast i was so proud i really 790 00:56:28,424 --> 00:56:30,964 for so many years I wanted to be here. 791 00:56:31,404 --> 00:56:33,544 And then I was really alone also 792 00:56:33,544 --> 00:56:36,664 in the sense that no one knew the podcast. 793 00:56:37,044 --> 00:56:38,144 But of course, I mean, 794 00:56:38,384 --> 00:56:40,884 my first episode was with Adam Back and Peter Todd. 795 00:56:41,024 --> 00:56:41,844 I'm not complaining. 796 00:56:42,104 --> 00:56:43,044 I'm not complaining at all. 797 00:56:43,484 --> 00:56:45,944 I was actually proud for you 798 00:56:45,944 --> 00:56:47,484 whenever I saw that Adam Back 799 00:56:47,484 --> 00:56:49,704 was your first podcast interview. 800 00:56:49,804 --> 00:56:51,224 Really, I was like, oh my God, 801 00:56:51,284 --> 00:56:52,004 she got Adam Back. 802 00:56:52,044 --> 00:56:52,664 That's amazing. 803 00:56:53,004 --> 00:56:54,444 Like I was proud for you. 804 00:56:54,564 --> 00:56:55,104 Thank you. 805 00:56:55,104 --> 00:57:16,764 You know, I'm going to say that a lot of what I've been doing the past two and a half years, going around and speaking at conferences and having large audiences and having people come up to me and that respect me and listen to what I say and care what I have to say. 806 00:57:17,284 --> 00:57:23,244 That makes me feel very proud of myself that I'm able to do this. 807 00:57:23,244 --> 00:57:31,844 And I don't think a lot of people outside of our social bubble understand that. 808 00:57:32,004 --> 00:57:34,344 My parents don't, I don't think. 809 00:57:34,684 --> 00:57:41,244 My wife does, but I don't know if any of my friends really get it. 810 00:57:41,824 --> 00:57:47,784 Is my family, are they proud of me for doing what I'm doing? 811 00:57:48,104 --> 00:58:05,680 I don really think so and I thought that My friends they ask sometimes about hey where are you going You know care enough to ask but are they proud who I was on stage with or who I gave a talk to and changing people lives 812 00:58:06,540 --> 00:58:13,980 They care because they're my friends and they're compassionate people, but I don't know if they 813 00:58:13,980 --> 00:58:20,480 truly understand the impact and if they're proud to say that, hey, Derek's my friend, 814 00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:26,100 I'm proud to know him or, or if my mom, my, my father and my, my mother, like if they're 815 00:58:26,100 --> 00:58:31,640 proud of the work that I'm doing, uh, you know, like they don't tell me, you know, like, 816 00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:38,760 so I don't know. I, sometimes I, I do, uh, I tell my family members, you know, where I'm going and 817 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,900 speaking and stuff. And there's like, Oh, cool. But like, you know, deep down, you know, I want 818 00:58:42,900 --> 00:58:47,800 them to, Oh, you know, I'm, I'm 45 years old. I still want my parents to be proud of me. I want 819 00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:52,640 my parents to tell me good job and they're proud of the work that I'm doing. And I don't know, 820 00:58:52,860 --> 00:58:57,940 I don't know when the last time they told me that, you know, I'm sure they are, but they don't tell me. 821 00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:05,940 Yeah. My mother asked me, why are you doing this? She knows I'm not getting paid for it. So 822 00:59:05,940 --> 00:59:12,540 why are you doing it? It's like to learn, you know, I really like the people I'm talking to 823 00:59:12,540 --> 00:59:15,440 and what they say, that much effort. 824 00:59:16,140 --> 00:59:16,360 Yeah. 825 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:17,780 You can learn online. 826 00:59:18,260 --> 00:59:24,200 I think that's why, you know, I want, not that I want, 827 00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:28,540 but it would be nice if somebody understood the effort 828 00:59:28,540 --> 00:59:34,140 and understood the time and effort that you're putting into this, 829 00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:35,820 you know, and that it matters. 830 00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:41,360 And it would be nice to have the, I don't need the validation, 831 00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,000 but it's nice to have. 832 00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:44,380 Yeah. 833 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,320 So if you had to vanish from all platforms, 834 00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:49,720 what would you leave behind? 835 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,020 I guess, I mean, all of my notes 836 00:59:53,020 --> 00:59:54,560 are going to be there on all relays. 837 00:59:55,580 --> 00:59:58,120 They'll be there until those relays shut off 838 00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,560 or those relay operators delete my notes. 839 01:00:00,620 --> 01:00:01,260 So they'll be there. 840 01:00:01,780 --> 01:00:04,820 My guides that I've written for Nostra, 841 01:00:04,900 --> 01:00:08,040 my blog post articles, my media, 842 01:00:08,260 --> 01:00:10,700 like my digital footprint is pretty large. 843 01:00:10,700 --> 01:00:17,400 It will live on Noster until all the clients and all the relays disappear. 844 01:00:18,220 --> 01:00:20,320 But I'd have to come back. 845 01:00:20,620 --> 01:00:22,260 Maybe I'd come back as a nymph, right? 846 01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,000 Like, I couldn't disappear forever. 847 01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:28,540 I have too many friends in close – I mean, they're essentially family. 848 01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:29,540 They're my Noster family. 849 01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:34,440 They're people that I see and embrace and hug, and I love – this is a good story. 850 01:00:34,540 --> 01:00:36,660 I'm going to marry two of my friends. 851 01:00:36,820 --> 01:00:38,540 Like, I'm an ordained minister now. 852 01:00:38,580 --> 01:00:39,200 That's wild. 853 01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:39,920 All right. 854 01:00:40,060 --> 01:00:40,400 Yeah. 855 01:00:40,700 --> 01:00:43,720 Uh, there's two Noster friends. 856 01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:44,140 Yeah. 857 01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,040 They met on Noster. 858 01:00:46,220 --> 01:00:47,640 I introduced them to each other. 859 01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,300 They got engaged last year at Nostriga. 860 01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:58,160 And at a conference a month ago, they said to me, Derek, long story short, they told me why, 861 01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,180 but they said, long story short, will you get ordained and marry us? 862 01:01:01,820 --> 01:01:05,980 And I was like, that is something I've never thought in my life I would do, 863 01:01:06,500 --> 01:01:07,640 but I love you too. 864 01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:14,180 And if you legitimately want me to marry, to oversee your wedding and marry you, I will do that. 865 01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,420 And I went, it's just a website. 866 01:01:16,540 --> 01:01:17,560 You go fill out a form. 867 01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,580 But I went and filled out a form and I have my piece of paper. 868 01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:22,820 I'm an ordained minister now, like rock star. 869 01:01:23,020 --> 01:01:25,480 So I can marry people now. 870 01:01:25,660 --> 01:01:32,700 And I'm going to marry my two friends because they had life situations happen that they have to push their wedding up a lot sooner. 871 01:01:32,700 --> 01:01:39,460 and they're unable to get a minister to marry them in a timely manner. 872 01:01:39,580 --> 01:01:42,820 So they asked me to do it and I was honored and I'm going to do it. 873 01:01:42,820 --> 01:01:49,240 So anyways, I love Noster so much that if I had to vanish for whatever reason, 874 01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,920 I'd come back as a nymph because I have people that are my friends 875 01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,840 and they're my family that I couldn't abandon. 876 01:01:55,940 --> 01:01:56,680 I couldn't leave them. 877 01:01:56,900 --> 01:01:58,240 They're a big part of my life. 878 01:01:58,400 --> 01:01:59,260 I remember that girl. 879 01:01:59,500 --> 01:02:02,420 She was on a stage last year in Riga. 880 01:02:02,700 --> 01:02:07,320 Mallory. Yes. Why did you introduce them? 881 01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:13,200 I have an app called Noster Ness. It's for audio conversations like Twitter Spaces or Clubhouse. 882 01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:20,040 And, you know, two years ago, you know, we were all on Ness every night just talking about 883 01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:25,940 life, talking about Noster or whatever. And there was a girl that used to get on there, 884 01:02:25,940 --> 01:02:30,180 Mallory, and I would, you know, she became a friend and I talked to her. I had a friend, 885 01:02:30,180 --> 01:02:37,720 Island. And Island was in Costa Rica. I met him in person. He was a good friend. 886 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:43,700 And one day I was like, hey, friend one, here's friend two. Let's all be friends and 887 01:02:43,700 --> 01:02:47,980 let's all talk. And they started talking and one thing led to another. And 888 01:02:47,980 --> 01:02:55,780 then they got engaged at a Noster conference and it's beautiful. So yeah, it's beautiful to see 889 01:02:55,780 --> 01:03:01,540 that happen. I'm happy to, you know, that I'm happy that Nostra was able to do that for them. 890 01:03:01,540 --> 01:03:05,360 They were able to meet through Nostra. They wouldn't have met otherwise. 891 01:03:05,620 --> 01:03:09,840 And if I remember correctly, she didn't feel comfortable in Nostra? She was harassed? 892 01:03:10,060 --> 01:03:14,940 The panel that we were on at Nostriga was about harassment. And she was talking about, 893 01:03:15,100 --> 01:03:20,540 you know, maybe herself or some other women were dealt with some harassment. So the panel was kind 894 01:03:20,540 --> 01:03:27,300 of how do we deal with that in a decentralized way and i don't know if there's really a good 895 01:03:27,300 --> 01:03:32,920 answer for that but it's the answer the easy answer is web of trust in your community you 896 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:38,080 know and and we kind of like you know we build our webs of trust we build our community and we 897 01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:43,700 police each other inside our community really and mute block and move on like that's that's all we 898 01:03:43,700 --> 01:03:49,520 can do like in real life yeah if i don't if i don't want to talk to you real life i'll turn 899 01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:54,040 around walk away yeah that's where that's the digital version mute block walk away yeah 900 01:03:54,040 --> 01:04:02,260 when was the last time you felt free i think i feel free every day like i'm i'm i'm able to do 901 01:04:02,260 --> 01:04:11,380 what i want to do i'm i i love to build on freedom technology nostril and bitcoin 902 01:04:11,380 --> 01:04:18,560 and two and a half years ago i wasn't really able to do that and i i think that 903 01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:24,280 I've been living my best life for the past two and a half years. Like I'm, I'm so incredibly 904 01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:30,200 happy that I get to do this, that I'm, I've traveled more in the past two and a half years 905 01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:36,760 than I did the previous 40. And Noster and Bitcoin has enabled all of this. I've, 906 01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:44,760 I really feel like I'm free and living my best life. I love my wife and my children more than 907 01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:52,860 anything and I'm able to travel and sometimes bring them with me and just I feel truly free 908 01:04:52,860 --> 01:04:59,080 that I can do and say and build and create whatever I want like it's it's beautiful really 909 01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:07,340 it is I'm very happy that Noster and Bitcoin exist great thanks for sharing Derek thank you 910 01:05:07,340 --> 01:05:13,240 those were my 21 takes on you I hope they were good takes yes thanks for your time this generous 911 01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:17,400 conversation and everything you are doing to keep voices free. 912 01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:19,980 Where can people follow you and your work? 913 01:05:20,100 --> 01:05:22,200 Well, you can't follow me anywhere else but Noster. 914 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:23,580 I deleted them all, I said. 915 01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:25,860 So you can follow me on Noster. 916 01:05:26,660 --> 01:05:29,480 I'm Derek Ross at grownoster.org. 917 01:05:29,540 --> 01:05:32,000 That is my Noster address. 918 01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:36,060 You can also check out Grow Noster at grownoster.org. 919 01:05:36,180 --> 01:05:41,120 And then you can follow all of the things that I'm saying and doing and building and 920 01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:46,340 and all the developer relations stuff that I'm doing with Soapbox by checking out Soapbox as well. 921 01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:47,760 Can't wait to have you back. 922 01:05:48,140 --> 01:05:49,440 Until then, stay sovereign. 923 01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:50,240 Yes, thank you. 924 01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:51,140 Thank you for having me. 925 01:05:51,180 --> 01:05:52,180 It was a great conversation.