Everyone has a plan for the fight until they go into the ring and they get like fist in the face
and then your plan just, you know. I would say like cyberpunk, you know, let's obsolete government
and banks and whatever, whatever. I see Bitcoin from the perspective of, I guess, business and
society and it just helps average people to avoid a lot of things like government control or
inflation. I think the very good skill is just minding your own business. It helps a lot.
I have plenty of experience in my life when you started to trust a person too early and then it
fires back. Honey Badger is always below 1,000 people. But for 10 years anniversary we're going
to have a limited amount of tickets. It's going to be 1,031. I would love to have Andres Antonopoulos
back. You pick size during arguments? All views expressed by the host or guests are solely their
own opinions. Nothing stated in this podcast should be considered a specific endorsement
to make any particular investment or follow any specific strategy.
Welcome to Lawless in Bitcoin, Max. I'm excited to talk to you about Bitcoin,
everything you've built and more but first let's get to know you better with my 21 takes on you
ready okay let's go where did you grow up i grew up in latvia well i was born basically when latvia
was part of soviet union and since then i'm basically i stayed there i grew up in latvia
and what kind of kid were you um i don't know you know it's like it's a weird thing because uh
So parents usually, they have this different opinion about their kids because it's their kids.
So I liked to read.
I was, at least my mother says, I was really calm reading and learning.
So that was my thing.
Okay.
What were the topics of conversation at the dinner table at home?
Oof. Um, the, the thing is that I, I guess in Eastern Europe, the culture of the dining table
is a bit different than in Western world. So, uh, usually like parents are working,
everyone is working. So you're just, uh, we, we didn't dine there. There wasn't like,
at least in my family, there wasn't a culture of, uh, you know, dining, uh, together.
and when we did it was usually some kind of celebration like birthday or new year's eve
or something like that and we didn't have any particular topics it was mostly about
you know life what's happening um maybe a bit of politics um maybe people also like to reflect
on the past, you know, especially as they get old.
So I wouldn't say that we discussed some like super interesting stuff that I can, you know,
share with you in a way that it's just a regular thing.
What did you want to be as a kid?
I wanted to be a lawyer, actually, as a kid.
How exciting.
Yes. Then I wanted to be a journalist growing up.
Why a lawyer?
I think I watched some kind of Hollywood movie when I was really, really young.
And there was a lawyer who was protecting an innocent person.
And I decided, well, that's cool.
Only then I realized that the legal system in Eastern Europe doesn't work like that.
We don't have this, you know, when the lawyer comes out and protects, and then there's a jury and everything else.
It's just Hollywood movies.
I'm just happy that I didn't become a lawyer because not my thing.
Yeah.
Definitely.
And what advice would you give that guy today?
Don't stress out.
And I didn't stress out, to be honest.
It's just, I don't think it needs to, there are some kids, of course, exceptions when they understand and clearly realize what they want to be.
and that's good but most of us they don't know what we want to be at least and it's like path
it's a journey and i think it's completely okay you know you grow and you change your perspective
on things and i think it's totally fine with everything you know it's just gonna naturally
naturally be there right yeah what's been your biggest turning point other than bitcoin
Oof, that's a tough one, other than Bitcoin.
I know, when I realized that journalism is probably not my thing, because I managed to
get a government-subsidized place in university, at that point there was a huge competition
among recent graduates in order to get in particular in the faculty that I was applying to.
Okay.
And I was one of the eight people chosen to join that program among like thousands of applicants.
That's impressive.
Yeah, because I already had like a job experience.
I was writing articles for a youth journal in Latvia.
and they choose me because of that I guess but then I just quickly realized that it's not my thing
what happened I cannot perform for like if there's a topic and people request you to write for a
certain topic I cannot perform for that particular thing I'm more like a free thinker in a way that I
prefer figuring out what is interesting for me and then writing about that and being a journalist
at least, you know, young journalists with no particular experience and name, you will write
about topics that your editor requires you to write about, right? And only when you get
super professional and successful, you will be able to choose your own topics,
something that interests you. So that was probably my case. I just realized I'm
I don't want to be put in certain boundaries.
Introvert or extrovert?
Depends on the conditions and depends on the goals.
I can be both.
But I would say, I guess I like privacy
and spending time with myself
or with people that are close to me.
But I also like going to the conference.
I mean, it's what we do as Bitcoiners.
You know, we go around, we talk, we educate yourself, we learn a lot of new things.
And yeah, I would say more introvert, but also kind of extrovert.
Who or what intimidates you?
I think that, I mean, we are all a bit worried about the future because, you know,
It's like the pace of the life is so much, it's getting so unpredictable.
You know, the life is getting unpredictable.
The information flows are getting unpredictable.
We have new technologies.
I think most of the people are not ready for that.
And, you know, it's just, it's really hard to forecast something in these days.
and
yeah, although we say like we have
this amazing thing which is called Bitcoin and that is going to save us but I mean there are a lot of life situations where Bitcoin doesn make any difference For example Well for example if it
dangerous for your health life or if it's like conflict between countries or something like that
Or even last year there was a blackout in Spain and Portugal.
And I was there at the time and I realized that unfortunately Bitcoin doesn't help in this situation.
It's a blackout.
There's no electricity.
There's no internet.
There's no nothing.
You either have a cash on your hands or you don't have anything.
Who mentors you?
Or who mentored you?
I don't think that there was a particular mentor. Honestly, I think I'm a good self-learner,
especially if this is of my interest. So I can tell you that who supports me, my team supports
me. Well, my team is my family. So my family, first of all, I guess, and my friends and my team.
Yeah, that's, but mentors, I don't know.
I just like learning things.
I still think it's amazing when you go into the room and you're the dumbest person in that room.
I still think there's a lot of learn from people within our space and outside of our space.
I don't think I have a particular mentor.
My grandfather used to have, he had a huge influence on me.
So I would say he was like my.
the biggest influence yeah first and only why why is that because he just uh you know he just uh
put a lot a lot of effort into me so he was like he cared about what i'm gonna become what i'm
gonna do but it wasn't about economics or whatever it was it was just love and yeah we were values
And also like a bit of homeschooling. So he was like teaching me math, writing, et cetera, et cetera. So I, I, I, I didn't finish, uh, we have the system in, in Eastern Europe where the kids first go to the kindergarten and then they go to school.
and he just took me from the last year of kindergarten and the year before school we
were just every day constantly learning math reading writing etc etc so it was kind of
fast course when I went to the first grade I was already basically prepared for
being able to write to to to count to to do whatever you want. Why do you think he did that
he thought it was very important for you?
I don't know.
I think so.
I haven't, I wasn't able to ask him that, unfortunately.
But yeah, I guess he was my one and probably one of the few mentors.
But I mean, I cannot distinguish a single person.
There's a lot of different persons.
And I try to get best from all of them, obviously.
you know parents grandparents there's like bits and pieces um that's that's probably it
do you mentor others not like i know about it you know i i i do give advice when people ask me
especially close people and friends and family but i don't think if someone is going to call me
a mentor, I'll be surprised. But nevertheless, I try to help if I can.
What do you wish more people knew about you?
Nothing. I'm fine with the way I am.
That's a great answer.
I don't think people need to know something about me. I think the very good skill is just
minding your own business. And it helps a lot.
Have you ever taken a break from Bitcoin?
No. I mean, I just enjoy it. It's fun.
Since when?
Since 2000, I guess it's 2016 or 15. I don't remember. I think it's 2015 or 16. Don't remember.
Can you share something you've never shared before?
I've been talking on multiple interviews, so I don't think I can share something that I don't want to share.
So, I mean, you already asked a bunch of personal questions and I already shared some of that stuff.
So I guess people who will look at this and who will watch your podcast in this episode, they will learn something new about me.
How do you think the Bitcoin community is changing?
Well, it's definitely growing.
And as we grow, there's like more and more opinions, different opinions.
I think that when I joined the community, it was mostly like one opinion about, at least I was in that camp.
Let's stick with...
Magical money?
I would say like cyber funk, you know, let's obsolete government and banks and whatever,
whatever.
And now it's like Bitcoin is evolving and we see that more and more like institutions
coming in and there's like banks embracing Bitcoin, governments embracing Bitcoin.
And you need to change as well to some extent in a good way.
so i think the community is just getting more and more fragmented in a way that there's different
opinions now about bitcoin and i think it's good you pick size during arguments
if i understand something about that particular argument if i have strong opinion of course i can
pick a size but i always try to understand the other side block size block size i mean
And yeah, of course, I was definitely not a big blocker.
Segwit?
Fully supportive of Segwit.
Taproot?
Same, same.
Ordinals and inscriptions?
I don't like it.
My opinion is that it's, I don't understand the value proposition of this, honestly.
I'm a big, in particular, like everything that goes with NFT, it was sold to like a
wider community of people who eventually lost a lot of money as a you know it's art
and it's kind of weird for me because like for me art is uh you know it's like picasso or dali
that's a proof of work you know people put a lot of effort and they work sweat blood tears you know
that's that's an art right i just don't get it but maybe it's just me i'm i'm a bit old school
you know in a way op return don't have any opinion about that to be honest because
i generally just think bitcoin is love drama every once in a while we have this new cycle
of drama as as we have new cycle of bull and beer markets we also need to have a cycle of drama so
I was talking with multiple people
and
there are a camp that supports one
side, there are a camp that supports another side
and there's a camp who just doesn't care
and he thinks whatever will be the outcome
nothing will change, nothing will
happen, I mean it's going to be the same thing
I though
don't like when the network
gets spammed of course
and I would prefer
we have this amazing second layer
solutions like lightning
And there there could be like arguments towards that that oh if if if even if the on is spammed and it like very expensive you know we we still have Lightning and now we have Arc and we have Liquid
and all this amazing second layer or third layer or whatever the layer it is.
I just think the on-chain and mempool should be as it is at the moment
because who doesn't love cheap transaction fees?
Everyone loves it.
I'm an end user. I'm not a miner. Maybe if I would be running a mining pool or be a miner,
I would say, okay, expensive transactions are cool. Of course, it's like their business.
Partially.
Nuts.
Again, don't have any opinion. I'm not a, you know, the case with me, I can share some,
I already shared it, but I can share it, I guess, this information. I'm totally not
technical person and I see Bitcoin from the perspective of I guess business and
society so for me it's like asset that cannot be confiscated for me it's an
asset that has a very practical approach high level of utility and it just helps
average people to avoid a lot of things like government control or inflation or whatever.
So I look at the Bitcoin from the perspective. Of course, I do know about the tech,
but I'm not a technical person. And when you ask me, if you're going to ask me some questions about
return notes and whatever, I won't be able to answer because I didn't research it and I don't
think I'm the authority to answer this.
What makes a great partner?
Well, you need to have some same values, support and
eventually a great partner is a person who can listen and
understand the stance or the opinion of another person. And
then there's another part of this is being
getting other person opinion and being able to change your own opinion and admit that you're
wrong. I guess, you know, that's, that's a good partner.
You got a plan for if World War Three starts?
You know, there's a saying, I think, by, by one of the famous boxers, I guess it was like
Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson, everyone has a plan for the fight, until they go into the
ring and they get into the face, like fist in the face.
And then your plan just, you know, no, I don't have one.
And I don't think, I mean, you can prepare yourself, whatever, but it's like, it's such
a black swan event.
my plan is to hope for that it's not going to happen because because it's if going to happen
i don't think that majority of us will be able to survive that and you know i know that people are
like relocating to distant locations like new zealand because there was uh some kind of
there's like all these debates happening which part of the world will be but then again you never
know maybe there will be some crazy guy who's just okay i'm gonna nuke new zealand as well you know
because you know we're burning everyone is burning now i mean it could be like a lot of
different stuff so i don't think we can predict that that thing and i just hope that's not gonna
to happen. That's it.
Yeah. What Bitcoin do you admire most?
A lot of them. I admire, I guess, like one of the examples for me is
Andres Antonopoulos. And the reason is that he was one of the first very
vocal trying to promote Bitcoin when it wasn't like fancy. And we all know
this famous video when he's like, literally empty, huge empty room, and
he's giving a speech, I think you need to be immersed in the topic so much and believe in
this thing so much and continue doing what you're doing just to do that because it's like empty room
and you're like talking for one or two person. I think that one and two person who was in that
room, he was part of some historical event. Honestly, he was really lucky. He didn't get it
at that point, I guess. I think, yeah, I think Andres Antonopoulos is definitely, and also Andres
was very helpful in a way that when we started Baltic Honey Badger, he was very like forward
going. He just, you know, I wrote him email, do you want to join? And he's like, in 10 minutes,
he answered, yeah, sure, I'm coming. So he kind of helped Baltic Honey Badger to become what it is.
and I'm grateful for that.
He's a very humble and nice person.
But there's like a lot of people who I admire
and I'm a big fan of them.
I just don't think, you know,
if I'm going to start, you know, saying names,
someone might get offended
because I don't remember everyone.
But I think Andreas is like,
he's like one of the most important people in the space.
he kick-started a lot of things what's your biggest asset
my biggest asset i guess people in general it's like uh people both in in my personal life
relationships you know family friends and also people in my work life i mean in my business as
well. That's the biggest asset. If you have right people, you can achieve a lot of things.
Yeah. And your biggest regret?
I don't like framing, you know, thinking about regrets or thinking about things that I could
done differently. I think everything what was done, it was supposed to be like this.
And I don't have any like significant regrets, to be honest. Of course, on my place, there will
be some Bitcoiner who said, my biggest regret that I didn't bought Bitcoin in 2009, which I guess
is regret of most of the people in the world. Because if you will see at the price, I guess
even people who are not familiar with Bitcoin would love to buy it at one cent. But I think
that's just the obvious question. I don't regret things. I think they're happening for a reason.
and you just need to embrace it and go with them.
I don't think there's any type of regrets.
What do I have to do to earn your trust?
It's a long process.
We need to, again, it's a building relationship.
Like if we're talking about work, it's like a lot of,
I would say it's years.
and these are the years of working together, you know, and then at some point probably, yeah,
we can talk about trusting each other more, but I have plenty of experience in my life when,
you know you started to trust a person too too early and then it fires back so i don't think
it's a long-term process for me really really long-term respect it's easier mutual respect
it's easier but trust is something that is very scarce at least in my case how do you handle
failure you just go with it i mean you you learn from your mistakes and go forward that it there no other way to handle failure I mean of course as a human being we all like we get disappointed maybe depressed
etc, etc. But I mean, it's like, you just get your shit together and keep going. That's it.
What keeps you grounded?
my background i'm from like very simple like i have a very simple background and
i'm not from like rich wealthy powerful family and i never had that advantages in my life and
hard work and dedication and you know being honest as much as you can and i mean just in regular
being first place being a good person.
Samurai wallet.
What samurai wallet?
What comes to mind when I say samurai wallet?
Samurai wallet comes to mind.
Like guys who did samurai wallet.
When you said samurai wallet, I just saw that instantly the red logo with samurai.
Yeah.
And that's it.
If you want my opinion on this case, it's the same, I guess, as with Tornado Cash.
You know, the people are developers.
I just don't think someone should be in jail for technical developments that they did, especially if they weren't.
There's different use cases, of course, but if they if it was like decentralized or non-custodial and you don't have any power over this process,
then I guess you need to evaluate from that perspective, not from the perspective of,
you know, as they were like very actively involved in this process.
But I followed this case, I watched it, but I didn't like dig deep enough to have a certain
level of opinion on that particular part.
I just think that overall like jailing developers is not a good thing.
Well, thanks for sharing Max.
Those were my 21 takes on you.
cool next up by tick honey buyer okay let's do it why was organizing that first bitcoin only
conference so important back then i didn't know that it was so important until until it happened
and until you know a few years passed by for for us it was like just a passion project at that point
like i was tired of all the blockchain events happening around i was very passionate about
bitcoin still i am and i just realized that we should do something like bitcoin only
i guess the important thing about this was that it actually kick-started a lot of other events
and baltic honey badger was probably one of the first ones i wouldn't say the first one because
there was other like Bitcoin conferences, but we had like a very strong stance on the content,
you know, it should be Bitcoin only as much as we can. And I guess as far as I understand,
some other like conference organizers was really inspired by what we did. So I would say,
I hope that we kickstarted the Bitcoin only conference movement in a way.
Do Bitcoin only events still matter today?
Yes, of course, they do matter. And I think it's like getting more and more important because there's so much noise around that. So much other things happening. And we have a momentum with Bitcoin with all the institutions flocking in. And I do think it's matter. But of course, there's a lot of them. And you need to distinguish one from another.
You know, there's some conferences that are saying that they're like Bitcoin only conference,
but then you go there and it's like not only Bitcoin.
Education is getting highly important in these days.
Was that first edition in 2017 as chaotic and exciting as I imagine?
It was chaotic and it was like crazy.
And we were very tired after that, honestly.
because one thing is when you know what you do,
you just know you go with the flow.
Of course, you get tired.
But then if you add that,
you don't know what's going to happen next hour.
You never did that.
It's like first time and it's like crazy.
And you have all these things popping up
that you never,
because you don't have experience in running events,
you never would consider that would be a thing.
But that was a great experience, honestly.
I still remember it with a very warm feeling, and it was really, really nice.
Who showed up in those days?
Oh, it was like a group of heavy hitters back in the days, and still now.
Of course, it was Andreas Antonopoulos, Adam Beck, Elizabeth Stark, Peter Thoth.
I'm talking more about the crowd.
Like, were they brilliant, wild, paranoid?
What kind of people?
Since it was the first event and everyone was running around,
I think it was just, it didn't like analyze the crowd at that time.
You know, later when we were doing the second, the third, the fourth,
we already kind of filtered and we understand,
okay, this is our like guest profile, right?
just people who were passionate and curious about bitcoin mostly from outside of the latvia
which was surprisingly there was even one guy who came into latvia from for our conference
he flew from i think it was japan he was from japan yeah why not yeah yeah why not
It was crazy.
And the next year we had a person from Australia and the next year from New Zealand.
And then now it's no surprises anymore.
But for us, it was like, well, there is a person flying in specifically for our conference to Riga from Japan.
And we're like, oh.
When do you think you will finally realize that this conference is here to stay?
because every year you kind of think that it's going to be maybe the last year
so uh you know we're still i don't know when because we already know yeah it's like a
yeah landmark for bitcoin yeah we want to change the format we it's going to be bitcoin only but
we're just we're just thinking maybe we're gonna do it once in a few years you know maybe we're
going to change it to the way.
Madeira maybe?
No, Madeira is Madeira.
Andre is doing a great job.
Madeira is like every four years, that's what I meant.
Yeah, I mean, Madeira every four years,
but we're looking more into the format once in two years.
And actually next year we are not doing Baltic Honey Badger.
Oh, no?
No, we are going to skip and then we're
going to celebrate 10 years anniversary 2027.
We're not conference organizers.
We do other stuff.
It's my favorite conference.
Yes, but maybe it's because we're not conference organizers.
For us, it's not a business.
It's really hard.
We do Debify and Hodel Hodel, also another part of our team.
And it's really hard to do this plus organize events.
So our main projects are getting bigger and bigger and it's getting harder and harder.
We still want to do it.
This is why we're not canceling it, but I guess we're going to go and be in Riga in
2027 and celebrate 10 years.
And then we're going to decide.
All right.
I mean, you should, it's a landmark.
It's heartbreaking what you just said.
Yeah.
It's a landmark.
People, people like it.
It's so intimate.
Yes, but sometimes you need to live on a high note
to be what you are, to people to remember.
So I can tell you that there's going to be one more honey badger.
It's going to be 2027.
But after that, I cannot promise that we're not going to stop it.
You know, most of the conference now, they are so much about,
which is not wrong, but it's about ETFs.
and paper bitcoin.
Baltic Honey Badger has this
cypherpunk feeling and
heart.
Yes, we have this, but
it's like, again, as I said, it's
logical evolution of the space.
I mean, we don't want
to be like dinosaurs
when we're going to keep
going and at some point it's not going to be
relevant.
Because a lot of people who were
attending first Honey Badgers,
they're not attending conferences anymore
at all, you know? And everything changes and it's good. You need to embrace the change. It's really
good what's happening at the moment. You still can be a cyber funk if you want to be cyber funk.
Nobody is like prohibiting you to do that. Be whatever you want to be.
Yeah. For me, there is this new wave of conferences where self-custody is not the relevant issue
among many others of self-sovereignty.
But the honey buyer has always been there.
I mean, a lot of big conferences have multiple stages.
Like I love Lugano Plan B conference
and they have a peer-to-peer stage
where they discuss like self-custody,
freedom tech, a lot of stuff.
Even on the main stage, they do that.
So it's just that we think that,
you know, conferences ignore that.
But actually, like five, six, seven years ago, it was mostly about self-custody.
Yeah.
But now the industry is getting bigger.
Mm-hmm.
So, and there are people who talk not only about self-custody.
There are people who talk about business cases.
There are people who talk about lending, trading.
There are people who are talking about other important things like quantum computing, right?
And all this stuff is just, you know, the industry is growing.
There's like people are coming in, they have different interests and they talk about this.
So it's not only about self-custody anymore.
It's about different topics.
And it's not like big conferences ignores self-custody.
No, they don't.
It's actually, I would argue that there's more content on the self-custody and education in these days on the big conferences than it was before.
But it's just a lot of other content out there.
how has the conference changed in energy crowd and purpose over the years
definitely become less cyber funkish but not in a bad way i mean there's like people who
again people with different opinion i would say the honey badger is one of the few conferences
that has a very huge amount of regular guests
who are coming every year to the Honey Badger.
It like a meetup of old friends Every year I would say it like 50 60 of the people who are coming to honey badger these are returning guests
We were in the same Airbnb.
Yeah.
They were like, uh, there's like a lot of people who were at the first
honey badger.
There was a lot of people who was at the, the second third, a lot of people
who were like, I was in a three honey badger.
So I was at four.
So it's like, it's a large meetup of the, of the, of the people.
So I don't think the crowd itself changed that much.
I think that some of people just change opinion
and they're like a bit different, you know?
And we still have like funny thing,
but we still have some speakers that has been there
since first conference, like record holders,
OGs as we name.
So it's Adam Back.
He was on all Baltic honey badgers.
Peter Todd, also all honey badgers and Giacomo Zucco.
And these three were from the first one and they never missed.
What's the moment on the stage or behind the scenes that you'll never forget?
There was so many good moments, honestly.
Because the first honey badger was in two locations.
The first location was in like event space and the second location,
second day was in the co-working space.
and I was closing the conference as I usually do.
I just give a speech and people like at the end of the speech,
there was like a round of applause and that was very, very nice for me.
And there was another moment was when after the COVID,
we restarted the conference and I went on stage on opening conference
and people were like just cheering up and applauding.
and everything was super cool.
I guess, yeah, these are like,
there's a lot of moments.
I cannot remember all of them.
But those are overwhelming, I understand.
Yeah, they were overwhelming
and there's a lot of fun stuff as well.
So I think it was Matt Corallo,
it was 2018,
something went wrong with his presentation
and he was cheering up people,
jumping on the stage,
doing some exercises.
there's a lot of different there was like cool very very great talks some of them like
i think at some point we need to like make a top 10 best honey badger talks
and one of them was again andreas first conference i strongly suggest everyone
to watch it it was about kyc and he just burned with his energy everything it was like i think
it's one of the legendary talks in in like space not just during the honey badger just
in bitcoin space yeah in bitcoin space i strongly suggest to watch it it's like
one of the most powerful talks we put it in the show notes it's really good and there's a lot of
really really cool talks and cool panels and uh i mean i'm really proud for the content that we've
been doing and publishing for free on YouTube and live stream is always free And I proud of the team I proud of the people who are behind the conference who were helping It really hard work and it pays off And
there's a lot of memorable, honestly, a lot, a lot of memorable moments.
How do you keep it fresh and relevant when the speakers are often the same?
you know the good thing about speakers that are often the same they keep learning new things
as everyone in the space and every year they came with new ideas we don't have any topics
we just when when people are asking what you want me to talk about and i'm like i don't care just
about bitcoin whatever drives you whatever and also again we're not conference organizers so
That's also a good benefit because we're very strict with filtering sponsors.
You know, we're not going to onboard some of the sponsors.
And we can be very strict with the content.
You know, we don't need to please anyone.
If we like it, we're going to accept it.
If not, then not.
What's organizing this conference have taught you about people?
People are highly disorganized.
That's definitely the thing that I learn about people.
I had a confirmation of theory that Bitcoiners are indeed humble, you know, and nice people in general.
Very approachable, you know, but disorganized.
People are largely disorganized.
And even if you like, it goes with everything.
It goes with, sometimes it goes with speaker when we ask, you know, we have a deadline for presentations.
because we want to prepare everything in advance
because it's huge stress when you get the presentation
like hour before the presentation, right?
So it goes even with the speakers,
but it also goes sometimes with the guests
who are attending.
You can put a lot of signs,
the main stage is there where people are like,
oh, I missed that.
I don't know what to do, et cetera, et cetera.
It's easier for us as human beings to ask someone else rather than sometimes, as we say, do our own research.
Watch around and see signs and try to follow the rules.
Is there a wishing box for 2027 Honey Bayer?
uh i want to i definitely since it's 10 years anniversary i definitely want to have
um a good rooster of speakers definitely i want to have all the ogs coming in like again
our our trio bright trio you know peter todd giacomo and adam because i think they need to
be there and as far as i understand they will be there um as of uh speakers uh i would definitely
love to have andreas back imagine it was one of the reasons why honey badger actually started and
and and actually you know kick-started the old the funny badger so i would love
to have him back to give a speech or whatever share opinion because he super important for our conference Then yeah I trying to get Paolo to the conference
Hopefully, he's never been there,
so hopefully he will join us in 2027.
And I really enjoyed Jack Dorsey when he was in Riga.
It was a good talk and I would love to have him back.
I mean, there's a lot of like good speakers.
It hasn't to be necessary super like person with huge amount of followers.
It's just they're like speakers who are like not even on Twitter.
But I always enjoy when they come to our conference and they deliver, always deliver high quality opinion.
So I don't know.
It's 10 years anniversary and we want to make it.
We don't want to make it big.
Honey Badger is always below 1,000 people.
So we want to keep it.
That's nice as well.
But for 10 years anniversary, we're going to have a limited amount of tickets.
It's going to be 1,031.
So 1031.
1031 is 31st of October.
That was the famous date of when the white paper was published.
So we decided, you know, Bitcoiners, they love numbers, obviously.
So 1031 is 1031.
So it's going to be a limited amount.
And if you don't get it, you don't get it.
That's it.
Well, it's a great wishing list.
Yeah.
And my another wish list is that we're probably going to make part of these tickets really, really affordable or even all of them.
That's Andrea Santonopoulos all the way.
He wouldn't go to a conference that was an expensive one because he wanted for everyone to be able to get in.
But we also want to have a new event space.
There's a nice event space in Riga,
which is bigger than the event space where we're doing at the moment.
So we're considering booking that one.
We need to make a decision on the dates
because every time we have someone who we want to invite,
there's always some kind of conflicting dates.
I hope it's going to be big and it's going to be interesting
and it's going to be relevant and we're going to celebrate 10 years
because it's a birthday and we have basically two years to prepare
and it's way more better for us like this than doing every year.
I know it's going to be great.
We are going to be there.
Thank you.
Thank you for your time and this generous conversation, Max.
Where can people follow you and your work?
I will obviously Twitter.
It's KDUNM, which is like my Twitter tag.
Are you Noster?
Noster as well.
Yeah, I guess Twitter and Noster, these are two things where you can follow me.
Okay, and the Honey Badger website as well.
Honey Badger is like hodl hodl sweet child.
So, I mean, if you want to follow the news about Honey Badger, just follow hodl hodl on Twitter.
It's been great having you on.
Can't wait to have you back in part two.
Until then, stay sovereign.
Thank you.
We'll see you next time.