1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,600 Everyone has a plan for the fight until they go into the ring and they get like fist in the face 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:13,760 and then your plan just, you know. I would say like cyberpunk, you know, let's obsolete government 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:20,440 and banks and whatever, whatever. I see Bitcoin from the perspective of, I guess, business and 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:27,460 society and it just helps average people to avoid a lot of things like government control or 5 00:00:27,460 --> 00:00:33,460 inflation. I think the very good skill is just minding your own business. It helps a lot. 6 00:00:33,780 --> 00:00:41,900 I have plenty of experience in my life when you started to trust a person too early and then it 7 00:00:41,900 --> 00:00:47,800 fires back. Honey Badger is always below 1,000 people. But for 10 years anniversary we're going 8 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:55,140 to have a limited amount of tickets. It's going to be 1,031. I would love to have Andres Antonopoulos 9 00:00:55,140 --> 00:01:01,120 back. You pick size during arguments? All views expressed by the host or guests are solely their 10 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,900 own opinions. Nothing stated in this podcast should be considered a specific endorsement 11 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:07,820 to make any particular investment or follow any specific strategy. 12 00:01:19,300 --> 00:01:23,820 Welcome to Lawless in Bitcoin, Max. I'm excited to talk to you about Bitcoin, 13 00:01:23,820 --> 00:01:29,880 everything you've built and more but first let's get to know you better with my 21 takes on you 14 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:38,620 ready okay let's go where did you grow up i grew up in latvia well i was born basically when latvia 15 00:01:38,620 --> 00:01:44,240 was part of soviet union and since then i'm basically i stayed there i grew up in latvia 16 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:51,820 and what kind of kid were you um i don't know you know it's like it's a weird thing because uh 17 00:01:51,820 --> 00:01:59,420 So parents usually, they have this different opinion about their kids because it's their kids. 18 00:02:00,140 --> 00:02:03,260 So I liked to read. 19 00:02:03,260 --> 00:02:11,020 I was, at least my mother says, I was really calm reading and learning. 20 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:12,700 So that was my thing. 21 00:02:13,260 --> 00:02:13,520 Okay. 22 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,920 What were the topics of conversation at the dinner table at home? 23 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:29,780 Oof. Um, the, the thing is that I, I guess in Eastern Europe, the culture of the dining table 24 00:02:29,780 --> 00:02:35,140 is a bit different than in Western world. So, uh, usually like parents are working, 25 00:02:35,460 --> 00:02:40,280 everyone is working. So you're just, uh, we, we didn't dine there. There wasn't like, 26 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:45,760 at least in my family, there wasn't a culture of, uh, you know, dining, uh, together. 27 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:55,180 and when we did it was usually some kind of celebration like birthday or new year's eve 28 00:02:55,180 --> 00:03:01,060 or something like that and we didn't have any particular topics it was mostly about 29 00:03:01,060 --> 00:03:11,300 you know life what's happening um maybe a bit of politics um maybe people also like to reflect 30 00:03:11,300 --> 00:03:14,400 on the past, you know, especially as they get old. 31 00:03:15,460 --> 00:03:23,480 So I wouldn't say that we discussed some like super interesting stuff that I can, you know, 32 00:03:23,540 --> 00:03:27,000 share with you in a way that it's just a regular thing. 33 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,180 What did you want to be as a kid? 34 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,840 I wanted to be a lawyer, actually, as a kid. 35 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:36,780 How exciting. 36 00:03:36,780 --> 00:03:43,700 Yes. Then I wanted to be a journalist growing up. 37 00:03:44,460 --> 00:03:45,460 Why a lawyer? 38 00:03:45,940 --> 00:03:51,140 I think I watched some kind of Hollywood movie when I was really, really young. 39 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,520 And there was a lawyer who was protecting an innocent person. 40 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,200 And I decided, well, that's cool. 41 00:03:58,740 --> 00:04:04,900 Only then I realized that the legal system in Eastern Europe doesn't work like that. 42 00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:12,080 We don't have this, you know, when the lawyer comes out and protects, and then there's a jury and everything else. 43 00:04:12,140 --> 00:04:13,820 It's just Hollywood movies. 44 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,760 I'm just happy that I didn't become a lawyer because not my thing. 45 00:04:19,140 --> 00:04:19,380 Yeah. 46 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:19,980 Definitely. 47 00:04:20,380 --> 00:04:23,020 And what advice would you give that guy today? 48 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:24,600 Don't stress out. 49 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:26,880 And I didn't stress out, to be honest. 50 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:34,840 It's just, I don't think it needs to, there are some kids, of course, exceptions when they understand and clearly realize what they want to be. 51 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:40,520 and that's good but most of us they don't know what we want to be at least and it's like path 52 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:46,880 it's a journey and i think it's completely okay you know you grow and you change your perspective 53 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:53,200 on things and i think it's totally fine with everything you know it's just gonna naturally 54 00:04:53,200 --> 00:05:00,660 naturally be there right yeah what's been your biggest turning point other than bitcoin 55 00:05:00,660 --> 00:05:05,320 Oof, that's a tough one, other than Bitcoin. 56 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:13,500 I know, when I realized that journalism is probably not my thing, because I managed to 57 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:25,380 get a government-subsidized place in university, at that point there was a huge competition 58 00:05:25,380 --> 00:05:32,380 among recent graduates in order to get in particular in the faculty that I was applying to. 59 00:05:32,380 --> 00:05:32,900 Okay. 60 00:05:33,820 --> 00:05:42,820 And I was one of the eight people chosen to join that program among like thousands of applicants. 61 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:43,660 That's impressive. 62 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,160 Yeah, because I already had like a job experience. 63 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,460 I was writing articles for a youth journal in Latvia. 64 00:05:51,460 --> 00:05:59,100 and they choose me because of that I guess but then I just quickly realized that it's not my thing 65 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:06,500 what happened I cannot perform for like if there's a topic and people request you to write for a 66 00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:13,080 certain topic I cannot perform for that particular thing I'm more like a free thinker in a way that I 67 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:20,360 prefer figuring out what is interesting for me and then writing about that and being a journalist 68 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:28,180 at least, you know, young journalists with no particular experience and name, you will write 69 00:06:28,180 --> 00:06:36,860 about topics that your editor requires you to write about, right? And only when you get 70 00:06:36,860 --> 00:06:42,120 super professional and successful, you will be able to choose your own topics, 71 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:48,720 something that interests you. So that was probably my case. I just realized I'm 72 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,960 I don't want to be put in certain boundaries. 73 00:06:53,780 --> 00:06:55,340 Introvert or extrovert? 74 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,740 Depends on the conditions and depends on the goals. 75 00:07:00,940 --> 00:07:02,780 I can be both. 76 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:06,700 But I would say, I guess I like privacy 77 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:11,780 and spending time with myself 78 00:07:11,780 --> 00:07:13,980 or with people that are close to me. 79 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,120 But I also like going to the conference. 80 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,820 I mean, it's what we do as Bitcoiners. 81 00:07:18,980 --> 00:07:24,960 You know, we go around, we talk, we educate yourself, we learn a lot of new things. 82 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,700 And yeah, I would say more introvert, but also kind of extrovert. 83 00:07:31,340 --> 00:07:33,160 Who or what intimidates you? 84 00:07:35,380 --> 00:07:45,240 I think that, I mean, we are all a bit worried about the future because, you know, 85 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,740 It's like the pace of the life is so much, it's getting so unpredictable. 86 00:07:51,460 --> 00:07:53,160 You know, the life is getting unpredictable. 87 00:07:53,740 --> 00:07:55,900 The information flows are getting unpredictable. 88 00:07:56,420 --> 00:07:57,900 We have new technologies. 89 00:07:58,980 --> 00:08:01,980 I think most of the people are not ready for that. 90 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:10,560 And, you know, it's just, it's really hard to forecast something in these days. 91 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,340 and 92 00:08:12,340 --> 00:08:14,560 yeah, although we say like we have 93 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:29,958 this amazing thing which is called Bitcoin and that is going to save us but I mean there are a lot of life situations where Bitcoin doesn make any difference For example Well for example if it 94 00:08:29,958 --> 00:08:36,318 dangerous for your health life or if it's like conflict between countries or something like that 95 00:08:36,318 --> 00:08:42,498 Or even last year there was a blackout in Spain and Portugal. 96 00:08:43,638 --> 00:08:51,258 And I was there at the time and I realized that unfortunately Bitcoin doesn't help in this situation. 97 00:08:51,458 --> 00:08:51,958 It's a blackout. 98 00:08:52,058 --> 00:08:52,758 There's no electricity. 99 00:08:52,978 --> 00:08:53,538 There's no internet. 100 00:08:53,678 --> 00:08:54,178 There's no nothing. 101 00:08:55,358 --> 00:09:00,538 You either have a cash on your hands or you don't have anything. 102 00:09:00,538 --> 00:09:02,158 Who mentors you? 103 00:09:04,238 --> 00:09:06,158 Or who mentored you? 104 00:09:06,318 --> 00:09:16,458 I don't think that there was a particular mentor. Honestly, I think I'm a good self-learner, 105 00:09:16,678 --> 00:09:24,638 especially if this is of my interest. So I can tell you that who supports me, my team supports 106 00:09:24,638 --> 00:09:34,098 me. Well, my team is my family. So my family, first of all, I guess, and my friends and my team. 107 00:09:34,098 --> 00:09:37,098 Yeah, that's, but mentors, I don't know. 108 00:09:37,158 --> 00:09:39,238 I just like learning things. 109 00:09:39,238 --> 00:09:46,158 I still think it's amazing when you go into the room and you're the dumbest person in that room. 110 00:09:46,578 --> 00:09:52,138 I still think there's a lot of learn from people within our space and outside of our space. 111 00:09:52,858 --> 00:09:55,958 I don't think I have a particular mentor. 112 00:09:56,138 --> 00:10:00,578 My grandfather used to have, he had a huge influence on me. 113 00:10:00,718 --> 00:10:02,438 So I would say he was like my. 114 00:10:02,438 --> 00:10:12,138 the biggest influence yeah first and only why why is that because he just uh you know he just uh 115 00:10:12,138 --> 00:10:18,938 put a lot a lot of effort into me so he was like he cared about what i'm gonna become what i'm 116 00:10:18,938 --> 00:10:27,618 gonna do but it wasn't about economics or whatever it was it was just love and yeah we were values 117 00:10:27,618 --> 00:10:45,218 And also like a bit of homeschooling. So he was like teaching me math, writing, et cetera, et cetera. So I, I, I, I didn't finish, uh, we have the system in, in Eastern Europe where the kids first go to the kindergarten and then they go to school. 118 00:10:45,218 --> 00:10:53,038 and he just took me from the last year of kindergarten and the year before school we 119 00:10:53,038 --> 00:10:59,858 were just every day constantly learning math reading writing etc etc so it was kind of 120 00:11:00,618 --> 00:11:06,738 fast course when I went to the first grade I was already basically prepared for 121 00:11:06,738 --> 00:11:14,258 being able to write to to to count to to do whatever you want. Why do you think he did that 122 00:11:14,258 --> 00:11:16,018 he thought it was very important for you? 123 00:11:16,538 --> 00:11:17,438 I don't know. 124 00:11:17,858 --> 00:11:18,638 I think so. 125 00:11:20,398 --> 00:11:25,378 I haven't, I wasn't able to ask him that, unfortunately. 126 00:11:25,778 --> 00:11:30,718 But yeah, I guess he was my one and probably one of the few mentors. 127 00:11:30,978 --> 00:11:35,518 But I mean, I cannot distinguish a single person. 128 00:11:35,638 --> 00:11:37,138 There's a lot of different persons. 129 00:11:37,138 --> 00:11:42,138 And I try to get best from all of them, obviously. 130 00:11:42,138 --> 00:11:50,678 you know parents grandparents there's like bits and pieces um that's that's probably it 131 00:11:50,678 --> 00:11:59,018 do you mentor others not like i know about it you know i i i do give advice when people ask me 132 00:11:59,018 --> 00:12:07,018 especially close people and friends and family but i don't think if someone is going to call me 133 00:12:07,018 --> 00:12:11,878 a mentor, I'll be surprised. But nevertheless, I try to help if I can. 134 00:12:13,058 --> 00:12:15,518 What do you wish more people knew about you? 135 00:12:16,938 --> 00:12:20,498 Nothing. I'm fine with the way I am. 136 00:12:20,658 --> 00:12:21,458 That's a great answer. 137 00:12:21,778 --> 00:12:30,018 I don't think people need to know something about me. I think the very good skill is just 138 00:12:30,018 --> 00:12:33,558 minding your own business. And it helps a lot. 139 00:12:34,518 --> 00:12:36,598 Have you ever taken a break from Bitcoin? 140 00:12:37,018 --> 00:12:43,998 No. I mean, I just enjoy it. It's fun. 141 00:12:44,338 --> 00:12:44,898 Since when? 142 00:12:45,078 --> 00:12:56,238 Since 2000, I guess it's 2016 or 15. I don't remember. I think it's 2015 or 16. Don't remember. 143 00:12:56,578 --> 00:13:00,338 Can you share something you've never shared before? 144 00:13:00,338 --> 00:13:08,438 I've been talking on multiple interviews, so I don't think I can share something that I don't want to share. 145 00:13:09,018 --> 00:13:15,058 So, I mean, you already asked a bunch of personal questions and I already shared some of that stuff. 146 00:13:15,218 --> 00:13:21,678 So I guess people who will look at this and who will watch your podcast in this episode, they will learn something new about me. 147 00:13:22,278 --> 00:13:24,478 How do you think the Bitcoin community is changing? 148 00:13:26,298 --> 00:13:28,458 Well, it's definitely growing. 149 00:13:28,458 --> 00:13:33,578 And as we grow, there's like more and more opinions, different opinions. 150 00:13:34,138 --> 00:13:45,538 I think that when I joined the community, it was mostly like one opinion about, at least I was in that camp. 151 00:13:46,138 --> 00:13:47,458 Let's stick with... 152 00:13:48,078 --> 00:13:48,918 Magical money? 153 00:13:48,918 --> 00:13:59,398 I would say like cyber funk, you know, let's obsolete government and banks and whatever, 154 00:13:59,598 --> 00:13:59,878 whatever. 155 00:14:00,198 --> 00:14:04,818 And now it's like Bitcoin is evolving and we see that more and more like institutions 156 00:14:04,818 --> 00:14:09,998 coming in and there's like banks embracing Bitcoin, governments embracing Bitcoin. 157 00:14:11,138 --> 00:14:15,058 And you need to change as well to some extent in a good way. 158 00:14:15,058 --> 00:14:22,138 so i think the community is just getting more and more fragmented in a way that there's different 159 00:14:22,138 --> 00:14:28,118 opinions now about bitcoin and i think it's good you pick size during arguments 160 00:14:28,118 --> 00:14:35,038 if i understand something about that particular argument if i have strong opinion of course i can 161 00:14:35,038 --> 00:14:42,978 pick a size but i always try to understand the other side block size block size i mean 162 00:14:42,978 --> 00:14:47,418 And yeah, of course, I was definitely not a big blocker. 163 00:14:48,298 --> 00:14:48,658 Segwit? 164 00:14:49,778 --> 00:14:51,758 Fully supportive of Segwit. 165 00:14:52,358 --> 00:14:52,838 Taproot? 166 00:14:53,858 --> 00:14:54,578 Same, same. 167 00:14:55,718 --> 00:14:56,918 Ordinals and inscriptions? 168 00:14:57,218 --> 00:14:58,438 I don't like it. 169 00:14:58,438 --> 00:15:05,098 My opinion is that it's, I don't understand the value proposition of this, honestly. 170 00:15:05,338 --> 00:15:11,658 I'm a big, in particular, like everything that goes with NFT, it was sold to like a 171 00:15:11,658 --> 00:15:16,178 wider community of people who eventually lost a lot of money as a you know it's art 172 00:15:16,178 --> 00:15:26,018 and it's kind of weird for me because like for me art is uh you know it's like picasso or dali 173 00:15:26,018 --> 00:15:32,698 that's a proof of work you know people put a lot of effort and they work sweat blood tears you know 174 00:15:32,698 --> 00:15:39,038 that's that's an art right i just don't get it but maybe it's just me i'm i'm a bit old school 175 00:15:39,038 --> 00:15:47,318 you know in a way op return don't have any opinion about that to be honest because 176 00:15:47,318 --> 00:15:54,678 i generally just think bitcoin is love drama every once in a while we have this new cycle 177 00:15:54,678 --> 00:16:03,358 of drama as as we have new cycle of bull and beer markets we also need to have a cycle of drama so 178 00:16:03,358 --> 00:16:05,898 I was talking with multiple people 179 00:16:05,898 --> 00:16:06,678 and 180 00:16:06,678 --> 00:16:09,878 there are a camp that supports one 181 00:16:09,878 --> 00:16:12,038 side, there are a camp that supports another side 182 00:16:12,038 --> 00:16:14,058 and there's a camp who just doesn't care 183 00:16:14,058 --> 00:16:16,138 and he thinks whatever will be the outcome 184 00:16:16,138 --> 00:16:18,018 nothing will change, nothing will 185 00:16:18,018 --> 00:16:20,178 happen, I mean it's going to be the same thing 186 00:16:20,178 --> 00:16:21,798 I though 187 00:16:21,798 --> 00:16:23,858 don't like when the network 188 00:16:23,858 --> 00:16:25,398 gets spammed of course 189 00:16:25,398 --> 00:16:27,718 and I would prefer 190 00:16:27,718 --> 00:16:29,918 we have this amazing second layer 191 00:16:29,918 --> 00:16:31,418 solutions like lightning 192 00:16:31,418 --> 00:16:45,176 And there there could be like arguments towards that that oh if if if even if the on is spammed and it like very expensive you know we we still have Lightning and now we have Arc and we have Liquid 193 00:16:45,176 --> 00:16:50,516 and all this amazing second layer or third layer or whatever the layer it is. 194 00:16:51,636 --> 00:16:57,616 I just think the on-chain and mempool should be as it is at the moment 195 00:16:57,616 --> 00:17:02,196 because who doesn't love cheap transaction fees? 196 00:17:02,196 --> 00:17:03,456 Everyone loves it. 197 00:17:03,456 --> 00:17:11,916 I'm an end user. I'm not a miner. Maybe if I would be running a mining pool or be a miner, 198 00:17:11,916 --> 00:17:17,616 I would say, okay, expensive transactions are cool. Of course, it's like their business. 199 00:17:18,896 --> 00:17:19,576 Partially. 200 00:17:20,136 --> 00:17:20,656 Nuts. 201 00:17:21,896 --> 00:17:27,456 Again, don't have any opinion. I'm not a, you know, the case with me, I can share some, 202 00:17:27,716 --> 00:17:33,296 I already shared it, but I can share it, I guess, this information. I'm totally not 203 00:17:33,296 --> 00:17:45,896 technical person and I see Bitcoin from the perspective of I guess business and 204 00:17:45,896 --> 00:17:53,016 society so for me it's like asset that cannot be confiscated for me it's an 205 00:17:53,016 --> 00:18:00,236 asset that has a very practical approach high level of utility and it just helps 206 00:18:00,236 --> 00:18:07,276 average people to avoid a lot of things like government control or inflation or whatever. 207 00:18:07,936 --> 00:18:13,556 So I look at the Bitcoin from the perspective. Of course, I do know about the tech, 208 00:18:14,116 --> 00:18:19,616 but I'm not a technical person. And when you ask me, if you're going to ask me some questions about 209 00:18:19,616 --> 00:18:25,996 return notes and whatever, I won't be able to answer because I didn't research it and I don't 210 00:18:25,996 --> 00:18:28,036 think I'm the authority to answer this. 211 00:18:28,936 --> 00:18:30,496 What makes a great partner? 212 00:18:31,816 --> 00:18:36,076 Well, you need to have some same values, support and 213 00:18:37,516 --> 00:18:41,256 eventually a great partner is a person who can listen and 214 00:18:41,556 --> 00:18:47,476 understand the stance or the opinion of another person. And 215 00:18:47,476 --> 00:18:51,856 then there's another part of this is being 216 00:18:51,856 --> 00:18:59,996 getting other person opinion and being able to change your own opinion and admit that you're 217 00:18:59,996 --> 00:19:03,376 wrong. I guess, you know, that's, that's a good partner. 218 00:19:04,736 --> 00:19:07,996 You got a plan for if World War Three starts? 219 00:19:10,596 --> 00:19:15,856 You know, there's a saying, I think, by, by one of the famous boxers, I guess it was like 220 00:19:15,856 --> 00:19:25,976 Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson, everyone has a plan for the fight, until they go into the 221 00:19:25,976 --> 00:19:30,256 ring and they get into the face, like fist in the face. 222 00:19:30,356 --> 00:19:33,576 And then your plan just, you know, no, I don't have one. 223 00:19:34,296 --> 00:19:42,976 And I don't think, I mean, you can prepare yourself, whatever, but it's like, it's such 224 00:19:42,976 --> 00:19:44,016 a black swan event. 225 00:19:44,016 --> 00:19:51,596 my plan is to hope for that it's not going to happen because because it's if going to happen 226 00:19:51,596 --> 00:19:59,896 i don't think that majority of us will be able to survive that and you know i know that people are 227 00:19:59,896 --> 00:20:07,376 like relocating to distant locations like new zealand because there was uh some kind of 228 00:20:07,376 --> 00:20:14,776 there's like all these debates happening which part of the world will be but then again you never 229 00:20:14,776 --> 00:20:19,756 know maybe there will be some crazy guy who's just okay i'm gonna nuke new zealand as well you know 230 00:20:19,756 --> 00:20:25,536 because you know we're burning everyone is burning now i mean it could be like a lot of 231 00:20:25,536 --> 00:20:32,276 different stuff so i don't think we can predict that that thing and i just hope that's not gonna 232 00:20:32,276 --> 00:20:33,336 to happen. That's it. 233 00:20:33,596 --> 00:20:36,596 Yeah. What Bitcoin do you admire most? 234 00:20:38,516 --> 00:20:45,836 A lot of them. I admire, I guess, like one of the examples for me is 235 00:20:45,836 --> 00:20:52,076 Andres Antonopoulos. And the reason is that he was one of the first very 236 00:20:52,076 --> 00:20:56,276 vocal trying to promote Bitcoin when it wasn't like fancy. And we all know 237 00:20:56,276 --> 00:21:00,956 this famous video when he's like, literally empty, huge empty room, and 238 00:21:00,956 --> 00:21:08,896 he's giving a speech, I think you need to be immersed in the topic so much and believe in 239 00:21:08,896 --> 00:21:14,996 this thing so much and continue doing what you're doing just to do that because it's like empty room 240 00:21:14,996 --> 00:21:21,776 and you're like talking for one or two person. I think that one and two person who was in that 241 00:21:21,776 --> 00:21:26,676 room, he was part of some historical event. Honestly, he was really lucky. He didn't get it 242 00:21:26,676 --> 00:21:33,236 at that point, I guess. I think, yeah, I think Andres Antonopoulos is definitely, and also Andres 243 00:21:33,236 --> 00:21:42,916 was very helpful in a way that when we started Baltic Honey Badger, he was very like forward 244 00:21:42,916 --> 00:21:47,636 going. He just, you know, I wrote him email, do you want to join? And he's like, in 10 minutes, 245 00:21:47,716 --> 00:21:54,756 he answered, yeah, sure, I'm coming. So he kind of helped Baltic Honey Badger to become what it is. 246 00:21:54,756 --> 00:21:57,856 and I'm grateful for that. 247 00:21:58,076 --> 00:22:00,136 He's a very humble and nice person. 248 00:22:00,196 --> 00:22:03,616 But there's like a lot of people who I admire 249 00:22:03,616 --> 00:22:06,056 and I'm a big fan of them. 250 00:22:07,056 --> 00:22:08,596 I just don't think, you know, 251 00:22:08,656 --> 00:22:12,216 if I'm going to start, you know, saying names, 252 00:22:12,216 --> 00:22:14,616 someone might get offended 253 00:22:14,616 --> 00:22:16,216 because I don't remember everyone. 254 00:22:16,376 --> 00:22:17,996 But I think Andreas is like, 255 00:22:19,156 --> 00:22:23,396 he's like one of the most important people in the space. 256 00:22:23,396 --> 00:22:28,176 he kick-started a lot of things what's your biggest asset 257 00:22:28,176 --> 00:22:40,676 my biggest asset i guess people in general it's like uh people both in in my personal life 258 00:22:40,676 --> 00:22:49,596 relationships you know family friends and also people in my work life i mean in my business as 259 00:22:49,596 --> 00:22:53,796 well. That's the biggest asset. If you have right people, you can achieve a lot of things. 260 00:22:53,796 --> 00:22:55,956 Yeah. And your biggest regret? 261 00:22:57,676 --> 00:23:05,096 I don't like framing, you know, thinking about regrets or thinking about things that I could 262 00:23:05,096 --> 00:23:09,456 done differently. I think everything what was done, it was supposed to be like this. 263 00:23:10,736 --> 00:23:18,116 And I don't have any like significant regrets, to be honest. Of course, on my place, there will 264 00:23:18,116 --> 00:23:24,616 be some Bitcoiner who said, my biggest regret that I didn't bought Bitcoin in 2009, which I guess 265 00:23:24,616 --> 00:23:29,536 is regret of most of the people in the world. Because if you will see at the price, I guess 266 00:23:29,536 --> 00:23:34,896 even people who are not familiar with Bitcoin would love to buy it at one cent. But I think 267 00:23:34,896 --> 00:23:45,716 that's just the obvious question. I don't regret things. I think they're happening for a reason. 268 00:23:45,716 --> 00:23:49,816 and you just need to embrace it and go with them. 269 00:23:51,296 --> 00:23:53,656 I don't think there's any type of regrets. 270 00:23:54,136 --> 00:23:56,336 What do I have to do to earn your trust? 271 00:23:59,036 --> 00:24:00,356 It's a long process. 272 00:24:00,836 --> 00:24:03,836 We need to, again, it's a building relationship. 273 00:24:04,156 --> 00:24:06,676 Like if we're talking about work, it's like a lot of, 274 00:24:07,376 --> 00:24:08,876 I would say it's years. 275 00:24:08,876 --> 00:24:21,136 and these are the years of working together, you know, and then at some point probably, yeah, 276 00:24:21,136 --> 00:24:29,976 we can talk about trusting each other more, but I have plenty of experience in my life when, 277 00:24:29,976 --> 00:24:39,616 you know you started to trust a person too too early and then it fires back so i don't think 278 00:24:39,616 --> 00:24:46,236 it's a long-term process for me really really long-term respect it's easier mutual respect 279 00:24:46,236 --> 00:24:52,536 it's easier but trust is something that is very scarce at least in my case how do you handle 280 00:24:52,536 --> 00:25:06,514 failure you just go with it i mean you you learn from your mistakes and go forward that it there no other way to handle failure I mean of course as a human being we all like we get disappointed maybe depressed 281 00:25:06,854 --> 00:25:15,934 etc, etc. But I mean, it's like, you just get your shit together and keep going. That's it. 282 00:25:16,354 --> 00:25:17,794 What keeps you grounded? 283 00:25:17,794 --> 00:25:26,434 my background i'm from like very simple like i have a very simple background and 284 00:25:28,674 --> 00:25:35,794 i'm not from like rich wealthy powerful family and i never had that advantages in my life and 285 00:25:37,554 --> 00:25:46,114 hard work and dedication and you know being honest as much as you can and i mean just in regular 286 00:25:46,114 --> 00:25:48,154 being first place being a good person. 287 00:25:49,574 --> 00:25:50,454 Samurai wallet. 288 00:25:52,074 --> 00:25:53,274 What samurai wallet? 289 00:25:53,554 --> 00:25:56,354 What comes to mind when I say samurai wallet? 290 00:25:57,634 --> 00:25:59,174 Samurai wallet comes to mind. 291 00:26:00,014 --> 00:26:02,134 Like guys who did samurai wallet. 292 00:26:02,574 --> 00:26:08,174 When you said samurai wallet, I just saw that instantly the red logo with samurai. 293 00:26:08,594 --> 00:26:08,814 Yeah. 294 00:26:09,434 --> 00:26:10,114 And that's it. 295 00:26:10,114 --> 00:26:15,354 If you want my opinion on this case, it's the same, I guess, as with Tornado Cash. 296 00:26:15,354 --> 00:26:17,314 You know, the people are developers. 297 00:26:17,514 --> 00:26:25,334 I just don't think someone should be in jail for technical developments that they did, especially if they weren't. 298 00:26:26,594 --> 00:26:35,654 There's different use cases, of course, but if they if it was like decentralized or non-custodial and you don't have any power over this process, 299 00:26:35,654 --> 00:26:41,654 then I guess you need to evaluate from that perspective, not from the perspective of, 300 00:26:41,654 --> 00:26:47,254 you know, as they were like very actively involved in this process. 301 00:26:47,254 --> 00:26:52,774 But I followed this case, I watched it, but I didn't like dig deep enough to have a certain 302 00:26:52,774 --> 00:26:55,174 level of opinion on that particular part. 303 00:26:55,174 --> 00:27:00,374 I just think that overall like jailing developers is not a good thing. 304 00:27:01,254 --> 00:27:02,934 Well, thanks for sharing Max. 305 00:27:02,934 --> 00:27:04,774 Those were my 21 takes on you. 306 00:27:04,774 --> 00:27:13,094 cool next up by tick honey buyer okay let's do it why was organizing that first bitcoin only 307 00:27:13,094 --> 00:27:21,574 conference so important back then i didn't know that it was so important until until it happened 308 00:27:21,574 --> 00:27:28,454 and until you know a few years passed by for for us it was like just a passion project at that point 309 00:27:28,454 --> 00:27:35,494 like i was tired of all the blockchain events happening around i was very passionate about 310 00:27:35,494 --> 00:27:41,594 bitcoin still i am and i just realized that we should do something like bitcoin only 311 00:27:41,594 --> 00:27:48,154 i guess the important thing about this was that it actually kick-started a lot of other events 312 00:27:48,154 --> 00:27:54,594 and baltic honey badger was probably one of the first ones i wouldn't say the first one because 313 00:27:54,594 --> 00:28:00,954 there was other like Bitcoin conferences, but we had like a very strong stance on the content, 314 00:28:01,234 --> 00:28:06,734 you know, it should be Bitcoin only as much as we can. And I guess as far as I understand, 315 00:28:06,854 --> 00:28:13,314 some other like conference organizers was really inspired by what we did. So I would say, 316 00:28:13,514 --> 00:28:18,714 I hope that we kickstarted the Bitcoin only conference movement in a way. 317 00:28:19,214 --> 00:28:21,314 Do Bitcoin only events still matter today? 318 00:28:21,314 --> 00:28:45,914 Yes, of course, they do matter. And I think it's like getting more and more important because there's so much noise around that. So much other things happening. And we have a momentum with Bitcoin with all the institutions flocking in. And I do think it's matter. But of course, there's a lot of them. And you need to distinguish one from another. 319 00:28:45,914 --> 00:28:51,314 You know, there's some conferences that are saying that they're like Bitcoin only conference, 320 00:28:51,394 --> 00:28:53,794 but then you go there and it's like not only Bitcoin. 321 00:28:54,054 --> 00:28:58,454 Education is getting highly important in these days. 322 00:28:59,434 --> 00:29:05,194 Was that first edition in 2017 as chaotic and exciting as I imagine? 323 00:29:06,654 --> 00:29:09,794 It was chaotic and it was like crazy. 324 00:29:10,134 --> 00:29:12,674 And we were very tired after that, honestly. 325 00:29:12,674 --> 00:29:16,654 because one thing is when you know what you do, 326 00:29:17,254 --> 00:29:19,254 you just know you go with the flow. 327 00:29:19,414 --> 00:29:20,334 Of course, you get tired. 328 00:29:20,474 --> 00:29:22,454 But then if you add that, 329 00:29:22,654 --> 00:29:24,614 you don't know what's going to happen next hour. 330 00:29:25,434 --> 00:29:26,774 You never did that. 331 00:29:26,854 --> 00:29:29,894 It's like first time and it's like crazy. 332 00:29:29,894 --> 00:29:34,554 And you have all these things popping up 333 00:29:34,554 --> 00:29:35,874 that you never, 334 00:29:36,354 --> 00:29:38,654 because you don't have experience in running events, 335 00:29:38,654 --> 00:29:41,414 you never would consider that would be a thing. 336 00:29:41,414 --> 00:29:43,514 But that was a great experience, honestly. 337 00:29:43,874 --> 00:29:51,294 I still remember it with a very warm feeling, and it was really, really nice. 338 00:29:51,554 --> 00:29:53,534 Who showed up in those days? 339 00:29:54,314 --> 00:29:59,454 Oh, it was like a group of heavy hitters back in the days, and still now. 340 00:30:00,054 --> 00:30:06,894 Of course, it was Andreas Antonopoulos, Adam Beck, Elizabeth Stark, Peter Thoth. 341 00:30:06,894 --> 00:30:08,634 I'm talking more about the crowd. 342 00:30:08,634 --> 00:30:11,834 Like, were they brilliant, wild, paranoid? 343 00:30:12,314 --> 00:30:13,194 What kind of people? 344 00:30:14,014 --> 00:30:17,494 Since it was the first event and everyone was running around, 345 00:30:18,114 --> 00:30:23,774 I think it was just, it didn't like analyze the crowd at that time. 346 00:30:24,094 --> 00:30:28,594 You know, later when we were doing the second, the third, the fourth, 347 00:30:28,694 --> 00:30:31,114 we already kind of filtered and we understand, 348 00:30:31,314 --> 00:30:34,514 okay, this is our like guest profile, right? 349 00:30:34,514 --> 00:30:41,954 just people who were passionate and curious about bitcoin mostly from outside of the latvia 350 00:30:41,954 --> 00:30:50,014 which was surprisingly there was even one guy who came into latvia from for our conference 351 00:30:50,014 --> 00:31:00,494 he flew from i think it was japan he was from japan yeah why not yeah yeah why not 352 00:31:00,494 --> 00:31:01,934 It was crazy. 353 00:31:02,394 --> 00:31:06,374 And the next year we had a person from Australia and the next year from New Zealand. 354 00:31:06,734 --> 00:31:09,854 And then now it's no surprises anymore. 355 00:31:10,074 --> 00:31:18,714 But for us, it was like, well, there is a person flying in specifically for our conference to Riga from Japan. 356 00:31:18,954 --> 00:31:19,734 And we're like, oh. 357 00:31:21,274 --> 00:31:26,574 When do you think you will finally realize that this conference is here to stay? 358 00:31:26,574 --> 00:31:31,574 because every year you kind of think that it's going to be maybe the last year 359 00:31:31,574 --> 00:31:40,334 so uh you know we're still i don't know when because we already know yeah it's like a 360 00:31:40,334 --> 00:31:47,554 yeah landmark for bitcoin yeah we want to change the format we it's going to be bitcoin only but 361 00:31:47,554 --> 00:31:54,454 we're just we're just thinking maybe we're gonna do it once in a few years you know maybe we're 362 00:31:54,454 --> 00:31:56,114 going to change it to the way. 363 00:31:56,114 --> 00:31:57,114 Madeira maybe? 364 00:31:57,114 --> 00:31:58,954 No, Madeira is Madeira. 365 00:31:58,954 --> 00:32:00,914 Andre is doing a great job. 366 00:32:00,914 --> 00:32:03,614 Madeira is like every four years, that's what I meant. 367 00:32:03,614 --> 00:32:06,454 Yeah, I mean, Madeira every four years, 368 00:32:06,454 --> 00:32:10,334 but we're looking more into the format once in two years. 369 00:32:10,334 --> 00:32:15,214 And actually next year we are not doing Baltic Honey Badger. 370 00:32:15,214 --> 00:32:15,754 Oh, no? 371 00:32:15,754 --> 00:32:18,274 No, we are going to skip and then we're 372 00:32:18,274 --> 00:32:23,494 going to celebrate 10 years anniversary 2027. 373 00:32:23,494 --> 00:32:24,874 We're not conference organizers. 374 00:32:25,314 --> 00:32:26,894 We do other stuff. 375 00:32:27,294 --> 00:32:28,934 It's my favorite conference. 376 00:32:29,414 --> 00:32:33,554 Yes, but maybe it's because we're not conference organizers. 377 00:32:33,854 --> 00:32:35,094 For us, it's not a business. 378 00:32:35,234 --> 00:32:35,934 It's really hard. 379 00:32:35,934 --> 00:32:42,774 We do Debify and Hodel Hodel, also another part of our team. 380 00:32:43,734 --> 00:32:50,134 And it's really hard to do this plus organize events. 381 00:32:50,134 --> 00:32:58,174 So our main projects are getting bigger and bigger and it's getting harder and harder. 382 00:32:58,174 --> 00:33:00,334 We still want to do it. 383 00:33:00,334 --> 00:33:05,614 This is why we're not canceling it, but I guess we're going to go and be in Riga in 384 00:33:05,614 --> 00:33:07,654 2027 and celebrate 10 years. 385 00:33:07,654 --> 00:33:09,654 And then we're going to decide. 386 00:33:09,654 --> 00:33:10,654 All right. 387 00:33:10,654 --> 00:33:14,194 I mean, you should, it's a landmark. 388 00:33:14,194 --> 00:33:15,934 It's heartbreaking what you just said. 389 00:33:15,934 --> 00:33:16,934 Yeah. 390 00:33:16,934 --> 00:33:17,934 It's a landmark. 391 00:33:17,934 --> 00:33:19,934 People, people like it. 392 00:33:19,992 --> 00:33:21,152 It's so intimate. 393 00:33:22,092 --> 00:33:26,352 Yes, but sometimes you need to live on a high note 394 00:33:26,352 --> 00:33:29,872 to be what you are, to people to remember. 395 00:33:30,152 --> 00:33:33,152 So I can tell you that there's going to be one more honey badger. 396 00:33:33,232 --> 00:33:34,492 It's going to be 2027. 397 00:33:34,832 --> 00:33:39,892 But after that, I cannot promise that we're not going to stop it. 398 00:33:39,892 --> 00:33:44,732 You know, most of the conference now, they are so much about, 399 00:33:45,992 --> 00:33:48,812 which is not wrong, but it's about ETFs. 400 00:33:48,812 --> 00:33:50,872 and paper bitcoin. 401 00:33:51,192 --> 00:33:52,632 Baltic Honey Badger has this 402 00:33:52,632 --> 00:33:54,892 cypherpunk feeling and 403 00:33:54,892 --> 00:33:55,352 heart. 404 00:33:56,232 --> 00:33:58,092 Yes, we have this, but 405 00:33:58,092 --> 00:34:00,712 it's like, again, as I said, it's 406 00:34:00,712 --> 00:34:02,752 logical evolution of the space. 407 00:34:03,032 --> 00:34:04,832 I mean, we don't want 408 00:34:04,832 --> 00:34:06,732 to be like dinosaurs 409 00:34:06,732 --> 00:34:08,672 when we're going to keep 410 00:34:08,672 --> 00:34:10,752 going and at some point it's not going to be 411 00:34:10,752 --> 00:34:11,212 relevant. 412 00:34:12,252 --> 00:34:14,692 Because a lot of people who were 413 00:34:14,692 --> 00:34:16,512 attending first Honey Badgers, 414 00:34:16,632 --> 00:34:18,672 they're not attending conferences anymore 415 00:34:18,672 --> 00:34:24,012 at all, you know? And everything changes and it's good. You need to embrace the change. It's really 416 00:34:24,012 --> 00:34:29,132 good what's happening at the moment. You still can be a cyber funk if you want to be cyber funk. 417 00:34:29,572 --> 00:34:34,592 Nobody is like prohibiting you to do that. Be whatever you want to be. 418 00:34:35,392 --> 00:34:44,092 Yeah. For me, there is this new wave of conferences where self-custody is not the relevant issue 419 00:34:44,092 --> 00:34:46,132 among many others of self-sovereignty. 420 00:34:46,892 --> 00:34:49,852 But the honey buyer has always been there. 421 00:34:50,012 --> 00:34:53,592 I mean, a lot of big conferences have multiple stages. 422 00:34:53,892 --> 00:34:56,152 Like I love Lugano Plan B conference 423 00:34:56,152 --> 00:34:59,572 and they have a peer-to-peer stage 424 00:34:59,572 --> 00:35:01,992 where they discuss like self-custody, 425 00:35:02,572 --> 00:35:04,392 freedom tech, a lot of stuff. 426 00:35:04,472 --> 00:35:06,092 Even on the main stage, they do that. 427 00:35:06,232 --> 00:35:09,992 So it's just that we think that, 428 00:35:10,192 --> 00:35:11,992 you know, conferences ignore that. 429 00:35:11,992 --> 00:35:17,752 But actually, like five, six, seven years ago, it was mostly about self-custody. 430 00:35:17,832 --> 00:35:17,972 Yeah. 431 00:35:18,132 --> 00:35:20,472 But now the industry is getting bigger. 432 00:35:20,592 --> 00:35:20,852 Mm-hmm. 433 00:35:21,412 --> 00:35:25,212 So, and there are people who talk not only about self-custody. 434 00:35:25,332 --> 00:35:27,452 There are people who talk about business cases. 435 00:35:27,612 --> 00:35:30,452 There are people who talk about lending, trading. 436 00:35:30,772 --> 00:35:36,872 There are people who are talking about other important things like quantum computing, right? 437 00:35:37,412 --> 00:35:41,012 And all this stuff is just, you know, the industry is growing. 438 00:35:41,012 --> 00:35:45,472 There's like people are coming in, they have different interests and they talk about this. 439 00:35:45,572 --> 00:35:47,552 So it's not only about self-custody anymore. 440 00:35:47,552 --> 00:35:49,532 It's about different topics. 441 00:35:49,532 --> 00:35:54,052 And it's not like big conferences ignores self-custody. 442 00:35:54,172 --> 00:35:54,872 No, they don't. 443 00:35:54,952 --> 00:36:03,712 It's actually, I would argue that there's more content on the self-custody and education in these days on the big conferences than it was before. 444 00:36:05,472 --> 00:36:08,832 But it's just a lot of other content out there. 445 00:36:08,832 --> 00:36:14,832 how has the conference changed in energy crowd and purpose over the years 446 00:36:14,832 --> 00:36:24,652 definitely become less cyber funkish but not in a bad way i mean there's like people who 447 00:36:24,652 --> 00:36:30,692 again people with different opinion i would say the honey badger is one of the few conferences 448 00:36:30,692 --> 00:36:35,952 that has a very huge amount of regular guests 449 00:36:35,952 --> 00:36:39,512 who are coming every year to the Honey Badger. 450 00:36:39,672 --> 00:36:50,044 It like a meetup of old friends Every year I would say it like 50 60 of the people who are coming to honey badger these are returning guests 451 00:36:51,064 --> 00:36:52,764 We were in the same Airbnb. 452 00:36:52,844 --> 00:36:53,224 Yeah. 453 00:36:53,524 --> 00:36:53,844 Yeah. 454 00:36:53,844 --> 00:36:57,524 They were like, uh, there's like a lot of people who were at the first 455 00:36:57,524 --> 00:36:58,144 honey badger. 456 00:36:58,144 --> 00:37:03,104 There was a lot of people who was at the, the second third, a lot of people 457 00:37:03,104 --> 00:37:05,344 who were like, I was in a three honey badger. 458 00:37:05,344 --> 00:37:06,304 So I was at four. 459 00:37:06,304 --> 00:37:10,744 So it's like, it's a large meetup of the, of the, of the people. 460 00:37:10,744 --> 00:37:15,204 So I don't think the crowd itself changed that much. 461 00:37:15,204 --> 00:37:19,504 I think that some of people just change opinion 462 00:37:19,504 --> 00:37:23,344 and they're like a bit different, you know? 463 00:37:23,344 --> 00:37:26,764 And we still have like funny thing, 464 00:37:26,764 --> 00:37:31,824 but we still have some speakers that has been there 465 00:37:31,824 --> 00:37:36,664 since first conference, like record holders, 466 00:37:36,664 --> 00:37:37,924 OGs as we name. 467 00:37:37,924 --> 00:37:39,544 So it's Adam Back. 468 00:37:39,544 --> 00:37:41,644 He was on all Baltic honey badgers. 469 00:37:42,404 --> 00:37:45,464 Peter Todd, also all honey badgers and Giacomo Zucco. 470 00:37:46,124 --> 00:37:49,944 And these three were from the first one and they never missed. 471 00:37:50,784 --> 00:37:54,684 What's the moment on the stage or behind the scenes that you'll never forget? 472 00:37:55,424 --> 00:37:57,724 There was so many good moments, honestly. 473 00:37:58,464 --> 00:38:00,824 Because the first honey badger was in two locations. 474 00:38:01,224 --> 00:38:04,964 The first location was in like event space and the second location, 475 00:38:05,164 --> 00:38:07,044 second day was in the co-working space. 476 00:38:07,044 --> 00:38:12,264 and I was closing the conference as I usually do. 477 00:38:12,904 --> 00:38:17,784 I just give a speech and people like at the end of the speech, 478 00:38:17,864 --> 00:38:22,924 there was like a round of applause and that was very, very nice for me. 479 00:38:22,924 --> 00:38:28,084 And there was another moment was when after the COVID, 480 00:38:28,264 --> 00:38:33,464 we restarted the conference and I went on stage on opening conference 481 00:38:33,464 --> 00:38:36,704 and people were like just cheering up and applauding. 482 00:38:37,044 --> 00:38:38,664 and everything was super cool. 483 00:38:40,684 --> 00:38:42,524 I guess, yeah, these are like, 484 00:38:42,644 --> 00:38:43,944 there's a lot of moments. 485 00:38:44,124 --> 00:38:46,884 I cannot remember all of them. 486 00:38:47,244 --> 00:38:49,064 But those are overwhelming, I understand. 487 00:38:49,364 --> 00:38:50,624 Yeah, they were overwhelming 488 00:38:50,624 --> 00:38:54,284 and there's a lot of fun stuff as well. 489 00:38:54,504 --> 00:38:57,004 So I think it was Matt Corallo, 490 00:38:57,324 --> 00:38:58,484 it was 2018, 491 00:38:59,004 --> 00:39:01,184 something went wrong with his presentation 492 00:39:01,184 --> 00:39:03,844 and he was cheering up people, 493 00:39:04,064 --> 00:39:05,344 jumping on the stage, 494 00:39:05,344 --> 00:39:06,924 doing some exercises. 495 00:39:07,044 --> 00:39:12,684 there's a lot of different there was like cool very very great talks some of them like 496 00:39:12,684 --> 00:39:17,964 i think at some point we need to like make a top 10 best honey badger talks 497 00:39:17,964 --> 00:39:24,584 and one of them was again andreas first conference i strongly suggest everyone 498 00:39:24,584 --> 00:39:34,784 to watch it it was about kyc and he just burned with his energy everything it was like i think 499 00:39:34,784 --> 00:39:41,564 it's one of the legendary talks in in like space not just during the honey badger just 500 00:39:41,564 --> 00:39:45,744 in bitcoin space yeah in bitcoin space i strongly suggest to watch it it's like 501 00:39:45,744 --> 00:39:52,464 one of the most powerful talks we put it in the show notes it's really good and there's a lot of 502 00:39:52,464 --> 00:40:03,004 really really cool talks and cool panels and uh i mean i'm really proud for the content that we've 503 00:40:03,004 --> 00:40:21,716 been doing and publishing for free on YouTube and live stream is always free And I proud of the team I proud of the people who are behind the conference who were helping It really hard work and it pays off And 504 00:40:21,716 --> 00:40:26,896 there's a lot of memorable, honestly, a lot, a lot of memorable moments. 505 00:40:27,696 --> 00:40:32,656 How do you keep it fresh and relevant when the speakers are often the same? 506 00:40:32,656 --> 00:40:39,556 you know the good thing about speakers that are often the same they keep learning new things 507 00:40:39,556 --> 00:40:46,376 as everyone in the space and every year they came with new ideas we don't have any topics 508 00:40:46,376 --> 00:40:51,516 we just when when people are asking what you want me to talk about and i'm like i don't care just 509 00:40:51,516 --> 00:40:58,656 about bitcoin whatever drives you whatever and also again we're not conference organizers so 510 00:40:58,656 --> 00:41:04,056 That's also a good benefit because we're very strict with filtering sponsors. 511 00:41:04,416 --> 00:41:07,116 You know, we're not going to onboard some of the sponsors. 512 00:41:08,636 --> 00:41:10,936 And we can be very strict with the content. 513 00:41:10,936 --> 00:41:13,616 You know, we don't need to please anyone. 514 00:41:14,076 --> 00:41:15,596 If we like it, we're going to accept it. 515 00:41:15,716 --> 00:41:16,636 If not, then not. 516 00:41:17,496 --> 00:41:20,756 What's organizing this conference have taught you about people? 517 00:41:21,216 --> 00:41:22,776 People are highly disorganized. 518 00:41:23,536 --> 00:41:26,636 That's definitely the thing that I learn about people. 519 00:41:26,636 --> 00:41:34,996 I had a confirmation of theory that Bitcoiners are indeed humble, you know, and nice people in general. 520 00:41:35,756 --> 00:41:42,336 Very approachable, you know, but disorganized. 521 00:41:42,856 --> 00:41:45,536 People are largely disorganized. 522 00:41:46,036 --> 00:41:50,136 And even if you like, it goes with everything. 523 00:41:50,136 --> 00:41:56,096 It goes with, sometimes it goes with speaker when we ask, you know, we have a deadline for presentations. 524 00:41:56,096 --> 00:41:58,816 because we want to prepare everything in advance 525 00:41:58,816 --> 00:42:01,256 because it's huge stress when you get the presentation 526 00:42:01,256 --> 00:42:04,036 like hour before the presentation, right? 527 00:42:05,436 --> 00:42:08,296 So it goes even with the speakers, 528 00:42:08,296 --> 00:42:10,716 but it also goes sometimes with the guests 529 00:42:10,716 --> 00:42:11,676 who are attending. 530 00:42:12,056 --> 00:42:13,956 You can put a lot of signs, 531 00:42:14,356 --> 00:42:16,656 the main stage is there where people are like, 532 00:42:16,716 --> 00:42:17,956 oh, I missed that. 533 00:42:18,136 --> 00:42:21,056 I don't know what to do, et cetera, et cetera. 534 00:42:21,056 --> 00:42:31,196 It's easier for us as human beings to ask someone else rather than sometimes, as we say, do our own research. 535 00:42:33,016 --> 00:42:38,636 Watch around and see signs and try to follow the rules. 536 00:42:40,096 --> 00:42:44,856 Is there a wishing box for 2027 Honey Bayer? 537 00:42:44,856 --> 00:42:53,576 uh i want to i definitely since it's 10 years anniversary i definitely want to have 538 00:42:53,576 --> 00:43:01,336 um a good rooster of speakers definitely i want to have all the ogs coming in like again 539 00:43:01,336 --> 00:43:08,776 our our trio bright trio you know peter todd giacomo and adam because i think they need to 540 00:43:08,776 --> 00:43:18,156 be there and as far as i understand they will be there um as of uh speakers uh i would definitely 541 00:43:18,156 --> 00:43:25,456 love to have andreas back imagine it was one of the reasons why honey badger actually started and 542 00:43:25,456 --> 00:43:31,056 and and actually you know kick-started the old the funny badger so i would love 543 00:43:31,056 --> 00:43:45,868 to have him back to give a speech or whatever share opinion because he super important for our conference Then yeah I trying to get Paolo to the conference 544 00:43:46,948 --> 00:43:48,548 Hopefully, he's never been there, 545 00:43:48,668 --> 00:43:52,948 so hopefully he will join us in 2027. 546 00:43:53,428 --> 00:43:58,728 And I really enjoyed Jack Dorsey when he was in Riga. 547 00:43:58,728 --> 00:44:02,788 It was a good talk and I would love to have him back. 548 00:44:02,788 --> 00:44:06,408 I mean, there's a lot of like good speakers. 549 00:44:06,408 --> 00:44:13,548 It hasn't to be necessary super like person with huge amount of followers. 550 00:44:14,968 --> 00:44:18,748 It's just they're like speakers who are like not even on Twitter. 551 00:44:19,268 --> 00:44:27,428 But I always enjoy when they come to our conference and they deliver, always deliver high quality opinion. 552 00:44:28,588 --> 00:44:29,248 So I don't know. 553 00:44:29,528 --> 00:44:32,368 It's 10 years anniversary and we want to make it. 554 00:44:32,368 --> 00:44:33,808 We don't want to make it big. 555 00:44:34,468 --> 00:44:36,688 Honey Badger is always below 1,000 people. 556 00:44:37,928 --> 00:44:38,668 So we want to keep it. 557 00:44:38,668 --> 00:44:39,508 That's nice as well. 558 00:44:39,988 --> 00:44:45,028 But for 10 years anniversary, we're going to have a limited amount of tickets. 559 00:44:45,148 --> 00:44:47,028 It's going to be 1,031. 560 00:44:47,288 --> 00:44:48,428 So 1031. 561 00:44:48,828 --> 00:44:51,848 1031 is 31st of October. 562 00:44:52,028 --> 00:44:55,988 That was the famous date of when the white paper was published. 563 00:44:56,468 --> 00:45:00,068 So we decided, you know, Bitcoiners, they love numbers, obviously. 564 00:45:00,068 --> 00:45:02,488 So 1031 is 1031. 565 00:45:02,868 --> 00:45:05,428 So it's going to be a limited amount. 566 00:45:05,608 --> 00:45:06,988 And if you don't get it, you don't get it. 567 00:45:07,128 --> 00:45:07,468 That's it. 568 00:45:07,848 --> 00:45:09,408 Well, it's a great wishing list. 569 00:45:10,168 --> 00:45:10,388 Yeah. 570 00:45:10,528 --> 00:45:18,908 And my another wish list is that we're probably going to make part of these tickets really, really affordable or even all of them. 571 00:45:19,068 --> 00:45:21,428 That's Andrea Santonopoulos all the way. 572 00:45:21,608 --> 00:45:27,748 He wouldn't go to a conference that was an expensive one because he wanted for everyone to be able to get in. 573 00:45:27,748 --> 00:45:31,168 But we also want to have a new event space. 574 00:45:31,388 --> 00:45:33,968 There's a nice event space in Riga, 575 00:45:34,448 --> 00:45:37,908 which is bigger than the event space where we're doing at the moment. 576 00:45:38,388 --> 00:45:41,048 So we're considering booking that one. 577 00:45:41,268 --> 00:45:43,248 We need to make a decision on the dates 578 00:45:43,248 --> 00:45:48,188 because every time we have someone who we want to invite, 579 00:45:48,308 --> 00:45:50,268 there's always some kind of conflicting dates. 580 00:45:50,828 --> 00:45:53,228 I hope it's going to be big and it's going to be interesting 581 00:45:53,228 --> 00:45:56,008 and it's going to be relevant and we're going to celebrate 10 years 582 00:45:56,008 --> 00:46:01,968 because it's a birthday and we have basically two years to prepare 583 00:46:01,968 --> 00:46:06,468 and it's way more better for us like this than doing every year. 584 00:46:07,248 --> 00:46:08,728 I know it's going to be great. 585 00:46:08,888 --> 00:46:09,628 We are going to be there. 586 00:46:10,608 --> 00:46:10,948 Thank you. 587 00:46:11,188 --> 00:46:14,928 Thank you for your time and this generous conversation, Max. 588 00:46:15,348 --> 00:46:17,228 Where can people follow you and your work? 589 00:46:18,368 --> 00:46:19,708 I will obviously Twitter. 590 00:46:21,588 --> 00:46:25,928 It's KDUNM, which is like my Twitter tag. 591 00:46:26,008 --> 00:46:28,228 Are you Noster? 592 00:46:28,868 --> 00:46:29,788 Noster as well. 593 00:46:30,308 --> 00:46:33,328 Yeah, I guess Twitter and Noster, these are two things where you can follow me. 594 00:46:33,568 --> 00:46:36,628 Okay, and the Honey Badger website as well. 595 00:46:36,708 --> 00:46:39,008 Honey Badger is like hodl hodl sweet child. 596 00:46:39,248 --> 00:46:43,948 So, I mean, if you want to follow the news about Honey Badger, just follow hodl hodl on Twitter. 597 00:46:44,228 --> 00:46:45,688 It's been great having you on. 598 00:46:45,928 --> 00:46:47,748 Can't wait to have you back in part two. 599 00:46:47,908 --> 00:46:49,168 Until then, stay sovereign. 600 00:46:49,588 --> 00:46:50,028 Thank you. 601 00:46:56,008 --> 00:47:01,988 We'll see you next time.