As our first year of All in Bitcoin comes to a close, we want to say a huge thank you to our audience and every incredible guest who joins us on this journey.
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CK and the All in Bitcoin team.
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Everything started when Satoshi Nakamoto released his white paper in January 3rd, 2009.
That's actually not true.
No.
So the white paper was actually released earlier.
Okay.
Also, January 3rd, 2009 is the date in the Genesis block.
Yeah.
But that's not when Bitcoin really launched.
Well, when it really launched was a couple days later when the code was released.
And I think, off the top of my head, I think that was like January 9th, 2009.
January 9th.
Yeah.
Because the thing is, what made Bitcoin Bitcoin was not that it had a Genesis block.
It's that people had access to the code and could run it.
similarly launching like the white paper didn't do anything it's just a piece of paper
you know it's just like a description of the system it's not the system itself what made
bitcoin bitcoin was launching the code and making it available to the general public notably
you know the very first block mined after the genesis block like the first block to actually
be mined was probably not mined by satoshi it was probably mined by just some random dude who
downloaded the code. Now we don't happen to know who that random dude is because they've never
piped up, but very likely it was some random guy who just downloaded it, tried it for a bit,
mined a block and then deleted it. Can you explain in simple terms Bitcoin mining?
So the idea is, I guess, a bit like a lottery. By doing mining, your miner is do a calculation,
which it can't predict the outcome.
And the outcome, it's a big number.
So if you look at it,
it will have a certain number of zeros at the beginning
and it's unpredictable.
So your miner is just going to keep trying numbers
until it finds a number with a lot of zeros
and then it will send that to a mining pool
and to the network.
And the network has a minimum that it will accept.
And if you get enough zeros,
you can take the next block
which will give you the financial reward.
Effectively, it's a sort of race
between all of the miners to see who can find enough zeros on this calculation. And so it's a
little bit like throwing coins and seeing if you have a head or a tail. If you count the tail as a
zero, you need a lot of the coins to land with a tail. It's extremely unlikely per try to have
the right number of tails, but there are a lot of mining machines and they're guessing a lot of
times per second. So the total hash rate is, you know, up in the 500 exahash. So a tera hash is a
trillion. So this is 5 million trillion tries per second, which is a lot, right? So it's an
unimaginably large number. And so even though the chances of, you know, doing it once and having
a fantastical number of zeros probabilistically.
They're trying so often that the chances of somebody
finding a block in 10 minutes is 50-50.
So that's what it's doing.
But it's really a game of chance.
So that's why the block interval can sometimes be 1 minute,
sometimes 20 minutes, but centered on the 10-minute target.
When I share quotes that align with libertarian principles,
people tend to agree because they just make sense.
Let's talk about these principles by exploring some thought-provoking quotes.
All right.
Here is the first quote.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,
that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, by Thomas Jefferson.
Do you hold these truths to be self-evident?
I think all people are created equal in the sense that we should not be aggressed upon,
like we should be allowed to do what we want if we're not hurting others.
Though I think a lot of people misunderstand what equality means.
You know, equality of opportunity, equality of outcome, these things are not guaranteed rights.
especially when you're talking about rights and why a lot of people disagree with libertarianism
is because libertarianism is mostly about negative rights, which means that you have the right not
to have bad things forced upon you. On the other hand, a lot of people who are more statists and
when they talk about rights, they will often talk about what you would call positive rights,
which would mean things like you should have the right to get paid some minimum amount,
or you should have the right to receive some sort of subsidy or help for things.
In order to provide those positive rights, you have to aggress upon someone else's negative
rights. You have to take from someone else, often without their consent. So I think it's not really
possible to have a world or a system that offers people positive rights without harming some
people's negative rights. I was going to ask you how far you think you are from your vision.
Maybe 60% done with the first version. We announced a project called PubKey. PubKey is
an overarching name for an ecosystem of software and protocols and apps that we've created. So that
consists of PubKey Core and PubKey App so far and a bunch of other tools. PubKey Core is sort of
this system for using keys, like as you use a Bitcoin key, a different type of keys that work
very similarly. You use these keys in a way that your key is like a domain name. So instead of
having to buy a domain name from some authority, some provider, and then be subject to possible
censorship from them, you actually could take your key and you can turn it into a domain name
or an identity, and you can have multiple of them if you really wanted.
So you take this key and you sign a DNS record
and you put it in what's called a DHT network.
A DHT network is the same network that BitTorrent uses,
except we don't use it for that necessarily.
We use the structure of the network and how it manages this hash table.
So when people want to look up where your website is
or your profile or how to pay you,
whatever it may be that you want to control for your key,
they just go to that network and they ask the network and it's the most decentralized network
on the internet, millions of nodes. So it's extremely censorship resistant. And now we use
this to point to what we call home servers You get to have the advantages of a server but none of the disadvantages if that server goes away or kicks you off If that server censors you in some way you go and get your key
from cold storage. You choose a different provider or you self-host. You update your record in the DHT
and you point to that new place. And this way you don't lose any of the integrity of your data or
any of your followers or any of your context. Nostra comes to mind. Nostra comes to mind
And quickly for Bitcoiners, more than most other industries interested in tech like this,
there are actually things like Nostr that are much bigger than Nostr, that have many
more users than Nostr.
Let's move to another passion of yours, which is Nostr.
Let's go.
What is Nostr in simple terms?
So Nostr is really a simple protocol that enables exchange of this.
like notes and other stuff transmitted on relays,
which is really what NOSTER acronym stands for.
It's a really simple protocol where I, as individual,
I create these JSON files, sign them cryptographically,
and send them to relays where they're available for anyone to download.
And the first big application of NOSTER is social media, like recreating.
But I really see as more people create identities, those private public key pairs and start creating JSON files and more and more use cases will arise.
Private messengers, they're going to use Nostra as a protocol to exchange nodes between people.
It's really a great protocol.
And then you can go Google Nostra GitHub.
you'll get to via Jeff's manifesto on what Noster is.
Use that as an intro.
Do you have a metaphor for explaining Noster?
Yeah, I don't have a metaphor.
That's interesting.
Maybe I should develop one.
Maybe we can develop it together.
Maybe.
But it's not that easy to explain.
Yeah.
The way that it works is if I took this piece of paper
and I wrote something on it, like it's blank,
and then I signed it.
And I took that note and put it in some kind of storage that's available for anyone to come and pick up the note.
It's digital, so that person taking the note, they're not taking the note, it's staying on the relay.
But they verify the signature and then they know it's a message from me.
So that's what really NOSTER is for non-technical people.
Can you talk about the problem with private chats, NOSTER DMs, and the solution you came up with?
Oh, yeah. So Nostr is censorship resistance technology. Privacy was not the design goal with Nostr and direct messages were like quickly glued on solution.
So on Nostr currently, direct message content is encrypted, but the sender and recipient and timestamp are visible.
So you can check out someone's chat history and you can see every message they sent and when they sent and whom, but you just don't see the content.
so I have recently done an improvement on this. I want to do like signal style double ratchet
algorithm so you would use session keys that are only on your device and you periodically rotate,
create the new key so that provides so-called forward and backward secrecy so even if your
main nostril private key is compromised, your past and future chats will be safe and also the
metadata will be hidden. I have actually already done the first part of the double ratchet. I just
need the second part, which provides even more reassurance if you use disappearing messages or
if you delete your chat history, then it's gone for good with a second ratchet added.
It's still working on it.
Bitcoin is about shifting from trusting to verifying.
What was the biggest shift for you in this process?
Yeah, I think that there's just the idea that you can have this distributed consensus and
that you can run your own full node and have your own rules that you're using to validate
whether you receive Bitcoins or not.
Like that whole process, like, I mean, that's a big shift.
You used to log into a website or you log into your online banking or, I mean, that's
just the way all those things were done.
But now it's like, man, we actually like got these Bitcoins showing up on the full
note and like really understanding and grasping like what we're doing, kind of writing about
the gold.
You know, one of the issues is like, you know, do the central banks actually have the physical
gold they say they have?
And in order to verify, you have to melt down the gold bar and recast it.
And that costs a lot of money.
And if you go outside of that chain of custody, that LBMA chain of custody, the LBMA bar loses 5% to 7% of its value.
And yet for a couple of Satoshis, we're able to melt down Bitcoin UTXOs and recast them.
and effectively assay that with 100% guarantee by running our full node.
So not only are we able to protect those UTXOs much more cost efficiently than we do with gold,
but we're also able to verify the quantity and the quality of them.
And so that was a big shift in my own mind because, I mean, that's the new innovation that Bitcoin's really brought to the world, right?
is like being able to do that in such a cheap, cost-efficient way.
And then capital, of course, is now honing in on that and being like,
oh, that's great, and we have a high stock-to-flow ratio.
It's now the cheapest, most efficient way to kind of store capital into the future because of that.
Let's talk about ARC Labs.
ARC is a scaling proposal.
Some people call it a layer two.
I think it's a bit of a semantics conversation.
So the way I like to look at it is sort of a multi-party contract on Bitcoin.
You have two-party contracts on Bitcoin.
Those are Lightning channels, for example.
Two people interacting together, opening channels.
And obviously through Lightning, those channels can be connected to the wider network.
A multi-party contract, it really is, you could say maybe like a multi-sig almost.
If you have a multi-sig that involves different signers, and those are really like on-chain
contracts, right?
But the idea with ARK is to get a group of people together, basically team them up with a server that acts as another party in that contract.
And through the interaction with this server, the people that are involved in ARK service or with the ARK server are able to batch off-chain transactions into a single on-chain transaction.
There's this idea of like a shared UTXO.
And why shared UTXOs are important is realistically, Lightning alone is not sufficient to scale the adoption of Bitcoin to the entire world.
But this arrangement of shared UTXO is sort of coordinated with this entity, which is the ARK server, who posts regularly, periodically a transaction on-chain.
And within that on-chain transaction is confined a bunch of different individuals that have their own shares and they can exchange their shares between each other.
So it becomes kind of like really this off-chain construct that is kind of like UTXO native.
So it's the same model of transactions that Bitcoin uses, uses the same Bitcoin script primitives that Bitcoin use, but really allows you to amortize the cost of almost a limitless amount of Bitcoin operations into a much smaller on-chain footprint.
ARK is super interesting ways to scale Bitcoin script, which is like scale all those cool
things that you can do on chain, but that are too expensive.
You just do them off chain and then you kind of like batch the outcome So like almost like the settlement in single shared UTXOs What drives you totally insane Right now it really around environmentalism So I think that the environmentalist movement
has been hijacked by the carbon cult that wants to use carbon emissions and global warming
as a way of controlling the global economy. And that's their priority, rather than having a
priority of let's improve the environment and let's clean it up. Because I think that there's
lots of forms of pollution that are far easier to address than carbon emissions. So for example,
seed oils in our food are pollution, right? You've got people who are feeding their children
engine oil. And people are getting sick from all of this. You've got an obesity epidemic.
It's having just tremendous devastating costs on society today. And then they're obsessed with
carbon emissions in 2050. You've got microplastics. So just tiny pieces of plastic in the food supply
that we're all eating. We're eating microplastics. Terrible form of pollution. Not a priority. No,
of the priority is making sure that you don't use electricity because of the indirect carbon
emission. So that I think is what drives me crazy. I think that because the way that we address
all the forms of real pollution is through technological progress, through increased energy
use, and plenty of countries, whether it's France and the United States, struggle with the problem
of litter, right? Trash out in the streets. And what we need are robots that automatically go
around and pick up the trash, right? And that takes up technology and that takes up lots of
electricity, but it's good for the environment. And so the modern environmentalist movement is
actually a form of pagan worship where they worship the sun, so they like solar. They worship
Gaia, Mother Nature. They want degrowth and they hate humans, right? They see humans as a form of
cancer on Earth and that they want to see the population decrease. And so I think that they're
just kind of a lunatic religion that's not grounded in enlightenment values of human dignity and
reason. Well said. Thank you. This episode is brought to you by Bitbox, the Bitcoin hardware
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allinbitcoin for 5% off or check the show notes. Does government intervention ever truly solve
the problem it seeks to address? No, it doesn't. And this is kind of obvious when you look at a
place like san francisco uh or i guess california more broadly um they spend an insane amount of
money on homelessness right and they have been for many years uh but why isn't homelessness
getting eliminated right they i mean sam the city of san francisco spends like a billion dollars a
year on homelessness like over the past 15 years it's actually gotten worse so what what's going on
Well, it turns out that when they're spending a billion dollars, they assign it to some government agency or NGO or whatever.
And for those people, their priority is not eliminating homelessness, even though that's in their charter or whatever.
They want to keep their jobs.
If they eliminated homelessness, they would be out of a job.
So it's in their interest to continue it and make it actually kind of worse.
So they get a bigger budget and then they get paid more.
So this happens all over the economy where you don't have competition, right?
Because if you had competition, like, you know, somebody makes burritos here and somebody
makes burritos here and the ones over there kind of stink, then, you know, the one that
does better wins.
If you don't have competition and you're just sort of pouring money into a black hole, the
problem only gets worse.
And this is true of almost everything.
And it's kind of counterintuitive because the normal voter is like, okay, well, we want to improve education.
So we should give more money to the Department of Education.
And then they give more money to the Department of Education.
What happens?
It gets worse.
And they ask for even more money.
And there are all these like US school districts where they spend more money per pupil like in a lot of these inner cities than like the suburbs.
And they do like worse and worse and worse.
Why?
Because there's nobody motivated to go and actually fix this stuff.
There's no competition.
It's just pouring money down a black hole.
So, yeah, like money doesn't solve this thing.
And we pretend that it does, but absent competition, absent market forces, it doesn't do anything.
It actually makes the problem much worse.
You are frustrated about El Salvador?
Yeah.
Why is that?
Bukele gave the people of El Salvador the greatest gift that a politician could ever give.
Why?
Politicians never give people power and control.
Bukele did that.
He did that before he put in the exception regime to go after MS-13.
So what does that tell you?
His priorities were right.
Fix the money and then fix everything else.
The country's completely changed in five years.
But what's the frustration?
Bukele has to build the middle class out here in El Salvador.
That's the single most important thing.
But Salvadorians need to take their head out of their ass and buy a little bit of Bitcoin.
Because the whole country changes if they understand this very simple idea.
You don't even have to think six steps ahead.
Just one step ahead. And Bukele, the reason I respect him, in my opinion, the greatest president
of any country of all time. I used to put him behind George Washington. Now I think he's
exceeded it. He is still buying Bitcoin now when he makes the deal with the IMF. He's telling the
IMF, I'm going to do what's right for my people. But the people of El Salvador need to realize
they all need to have strike wallets.
They all need to have moon wallets.
They need to start saving some of their money,
even if it's 5% or 10% in Bitcoin and not in American dollars.
If they do that, El Salvador could have a bigger ascent
than the United States did from 1850 to probably 1945.
What's something you have changed your mind about
since starting Bitcoin Beach?
and you got some hard questions um i think one thing i've changed my mind about is that there's
like a right and wrong way to to do things i've seen that really there's lots of different ways
to go about having an impact.
And so I think that's what's so great
about the way Bitcoin is designed,
it's decentralized.
And so you don't have this top down,
like there's one specific way to best have an impact.
And so we're seeing now there's all these other,
you know, communities springing up,
like you see Berlin and now in Punta Mango,
there's La Paria. You see that there's not like a necessarily right and wrong way. And
yeah I like seeing it done by different people in different ways rather than it being like this top down where I would have thought before like okay we need to have this formula and we teach everybody how to do it and the way it happened has been more organic
People take bits and learnings of what we've done,
they use the white paper,
but then they make changes that work better in their community,
and then a lot of times they'll feed back to us,
like, hey, we're doing this, and it's really working,
and then we can integrate that in our project.
What's the most unexpected lesson you've learned?
Probably that building in the Bitcoin world is the most challenging industry to work on.
Why is that?
Fighting the odds for everything.
Like on one hand, you're building technology for someone individual, but those people are low time preferent.
So typically they might not want to spend money on goods and services.
So you have a lot of pressure from government.
funding in this ecosystem is much scarcer than in other industries.
If you compare crypto versus Bitcoin,
there is like 100 times more funding in the crypto space.
And maybe the Bitcoin for corporation is changing a little bit,
but that still doesn't mean there's a lot of money
for people building tools in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
So building as an entrepreneur in the Bitcoin space is very challenging.
and when I started six years ago
I would not have guessed that it would be as challenging.
So do you trust stablecoins not to be frozen or confiscated
in a major financial or government crisis?
You know I wouldn't put in my bank cash
any significant amount because of that bail-in threshold.
In terms of Tether or Circle or, you know, there's what changes every day, but I think it's around 170 billion US dollars in that pool of capital.
Is the US government coming in to freeze that?
They might take the money out of your bank account, but to take $170 billion from Tether or Circle, who's going to buy their T-bills if they do that?
The US government requires buyers of their debt, and the fastest growing buyer of debt is Tether right now.
In fact, if Bitcoin price goes over the next 10 years to a million dollars, the T-bill buying, the short-dated T-bill buying is more than enough to replace China who have stopped buying the T-bills.
So the US government debt is reliant on stable coins growing.
So I don't think they're going to freeze that because that's kind of committing suicide on their debt.
They could do it, but that would be an absolute crisis, like absolute crisis, a fall of a nation state.
that could happen.
Yeah.
But, you know,
like if that happens,
the nation state's going down.
Yeah.
That could happen.
So you've done a lot of explaining.
What's the one thing you wish
someone had explained to you?
I wish
that I would have had
and not pertaining to Bitcoin specifically,
but I wish I would have had
any sort of financial education growing up. I had nothing. You get out of school,
they don't teach you a damn thing. And so I entered adulthood with no ability to save every
dollar I earned, I spent not only understanding of just personal finances or the financial system
itself, but just habits as well. And so if somebody had taught me how to properly, you know,
spend less than you earn and manage personal finances, that would have been a huge help.
Because even early on in Bitcoin, it helped me. Bitcoin itself taught me that through pain.
Yeah. Right. Like, you know, Bitcoin was the first time that I ever learned to save whatsoever because there was an incentive to do so. But I also didn't stem the bad habits yet.
and so doing things like oh i'm gonna pay off a credit card with bitcoin but i hadn't addressed
the underlying issue which was i racked up my credit card because i was spending more than i
earned and so i some of the most regretful moments were oh i'll pay off that credit card with bitcoin
the bitcoin would be worth so much more now and on top of that the credit card just got racked up
again and so yeah you i had to learn like oh bitcoin isn't fixing my problem i need to fix me
and then i'll be able to thrive with bitcoin this resonates with so many people yes what's your
biggest fear for bitcoin core over the next five years uh like i said that we have a walled garden
i think it's again it's very very easy and we've seen in other ecosystems and open source where
it starts off with good intentions around hygiene when it comes to how you talk to people
or what is a productive conversation, what is spamming, ironically.
And I think it's very, very easy for developers that are highly involved or even maintainers
to start to be a little bit unnecessarily antagonistic to people that maybe aren't
constructively criticizing them and marking that as spam or locking conversations and
things around that, I think it's going to be one of the bigger challenges for us, even more so than
funding developers to put in code changes. I think we have to be really, really careful about that
human element around creating a division between the people that use the code versus those that
build it. As a non-technical person, I think you need to leave the technical stuff to the technical
people. But I also think that the technical people should be able to explain what they are doing
in words that we get.
100%.
I like that you brought that up
because it's often overlooked.
Like what I would say
to the non-technical crowd is
the moment it becomes obvious
that a person's unable to communicate
in layman's terms
what they're trying to do,
then there likely is
either one or two things.
One, maybe they don't understand
what the hell they're talking about.
Or two, they're trying to hide something.
So typically you're able to call out BS
when it comes to highly technical folks.
It's very easy for a technical person
to hide into all the technical jargon
and make you feel like,
oh, you know, I don't know
what the hell I'm talking about.
But a lot of that is kind of diversion tactics
on the side of developers.
And I see on the other side too,
like, again, to answer your question directly,
I think the best language
when it comes to how to interact
between the devs and the non-devs
is, you know, the language of empathy.
Like at the end of the day,
like for technical folks,
they have to remember that
the folks you're talking to
in terms of the non-technical
are not as directly involved with the code base.
So there's so much that they're definitely unaware of,
not because they're ignorant or they're not intelligent,
but because they're not aware.
You're working on code and they're not.
And I think on the non-technical side as well,
I think really it's around trying to be as straightforward
in terms of the communication
and kind of the points you're trying to make.
Don't beat around the bush with trying to beat them down
to make yourself feel like you're on the same level.
Like regardless, we're all on the same level.
like the whole division around, oh, I'm a dev and you're not a dev, and there's like
hierarchy, doesn't make any sense.
And that's like the worst case scenario for Bitcoin land if we start to think from that
perspective.
What are the consequences?
The consequences are instability in a system that must forever grow more debt or face
complete and utter collapse completely.
And so because we won't let this system face complete and utter collapse, we will always
vote for more debt.
isn't the government, it's us.
How do you see the end of this?
So these reset happen through war.
Yeah, through war.
And how they happen is you have to convince
the people in your country that there's an enemy
within the country and you divide your nation.
And then once you've divided it and then take more control
and more power from them, and it's building more
and more instability because it's on broken money.
It's stealing from them to take more control.
you have to create a bigger enemy. You have to create a bigger problem that you have to solve,
whether that problem is COVID, whether that problem is Russia, whether that problem is,
you have to create China, you have to create a bigger enemy for the same people to then trust
you to be able to save them. You have to kill millions of people all over the world. And then
And the winner of that war, which there's really no winners of that war, go and reset all the institutions and start again.
And the same thing happens again.
Just an anecdote.
We launched at the end of January.
And by March, our account on X was suspended.
So you know.
And, you know, you feel helpless and nauseous because there it goes.
all the content you created, you don't know why,
then I think when it happens to you,
then is when you get it You get like on Nosta I cannot have this problem Absolutely It can happen And if it would happen let say if whatever NOSTA app we keep talking about Domas
Domas probably won't do this.
But for example, if Domas decided, I don't like you and I'm going to ban you, that sucks.
But okay, I'll take my profile, my NSEC.
I'll pop it into another app, to Primal, for example.
and I'll sign in and there you go.
All my stuff is with me.
And then if Primal says,
hey, I don't like you, I'm going to ban you.
That sucks.
Okay, I'll take my key and I'll pop it into Iris.
There's dozens of other apps.
And even if all of the apps for some reason ban you,
you can run your own app on your own home computer
that's installed and running on your home computer
or home server.
You can run your own.
Like if Twitter bans me,
I can't run my own Twitter off of my home computer
or home server, I'm banned.
Where Nostra, you have that opportunity.
It's really hard.
You can't ban somebody.
You could play a game of whack-a-mole
and relays could ban you and clients can ban you,
but you can jump around and port your whole entire social graph
and all your content.
You own it, so you can take it with you.
You can't really effectively ban somebody.
Is there a wishing box for 2027 HoneyBudger?
Since it's 10 years anniversary, I definitely want to have a good rooster of speakers.
Definitely I want to have all the OGs coming in like again our our trio bright trio you know peter todd giacomo and adam because i think they need to be there and as far as i understand they
will be there um as of uh speakers uh i would definitely love to have andreas back imagine
It was one of the reasons why Honey Badger actually started and actually, you know, kickstarted the old Honey Badger.
So I would love to have him back to give a speech or whatever, share opinion, because he's like super important for our conference.
I'm trying to get Paolo to the conference.
He's never been there, so hopefully he will join us in 2027.
and I really enjoyed Jack Dorsey when he was in Riga.
It was a good talk and I would love to have him back.
I mean, there's a lot of good speakers.
It hasn't to be necessary.
A person with a huge amount of followers.
It's just there are speakers who are not even on Twitter,
but I always enjoy when they come to our conference
and they always deliver high-quality opinion.
We don't want to make it big.
Honey Badger is always below 1,000 people.
So we want to keep it.
That's nice as well.
Yeah.
But for 10 years anniversary,
we going to have a limited amount of tickets It going to be 1 So 1031 1031 is 31st of October That was the famous date of when the white paper was published
Bitcoiners, they love numbers, obviously.
So 1031 is 1031.
So it's going to be a limited amount.
And if you don't get it, you don't get it.
That's it.
Well, it's a great wishing list.
Yeah.
And my another wish list is that we're probably going to make part of these tickets.
really, really affordable, or even all of them.
That's Andrea Santornopoulos all the way.
He wouldn't go to a conference that was an expensive one
because he wanted for everyone to be able to get in.
But we also want to have a new event space.
There's a nice event space in Riga,
which is bigger than the event space
where we're doing at the moment.
Okay.
So we're considering booking that one.
We need to make a decision on the dates
because every time we have someone who we want to invite,
there's always some kind of conflicting dates.
I hope it's going to be big and it's going to be interesting
and it's going to be relevant
and we're going to celebrate 10 years
because it's a birthday
and we have basically two years to prepare
and it's way more better for us like this
than doing every year.
I know it's going to be great.
We are going to be there.
Thank you.
We'll be right back.