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I start a podcast and it's like the biggest Bitcoin podcast in the world.

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No, no, not enough. I've got to start a football team.

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No, not enough. I've got to buy a bar.

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No, not enough. I've got to become an MP.

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I've got to fix my local town.

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We as Bitcoiners, we know exactly what's happening.

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We know exactly what's going on.

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We're trying to tell everyone.

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My ego required success and money.

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And that meant I hurt people that loved me.

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And I think about that a lot.

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I used to have this spreadsheet where at every shitcoin, it's value in pounds, dollars and Bitcoin.

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But there are people in the world of Bitcoin, billionaires.

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And I think they could have stepped up and helped people, but for whatever reason, they chose not to.

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As hard as this interview is, because you're making me really be vulnerable and open up, it's nice to have this conversation.

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And if I just vote for that party, that one's going to fix it.

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And they don't realize it is a feature, not a bug.

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It is how the system of incentives works.

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I'm more curious right now about what you dream, what you go to sleep.

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All views expressed by the host or guests are solely their own opinions.

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Nothing stated in this podcast should be considered a specific endorsement to make any particular investment or follow any specific strategy.

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Welcome to Own Bitcoin, Pete.

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I'm excited to talk to you about Bitcoin, everything you've built and what's next.

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But first, let's clear the air.

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You interviewed Mike Peterson a couple of times way before I did. Your first interview was episode 179.

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Was that what it was?

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Yeah, I checked there. Mine was episode 12. Now please read what he said after sitting down with me.

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Hands down, my favorite podcast interview I've ever participated in. I had never ever heard of Peter McCormack when I agreed.

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I had never even heard of All In Bitcoin pod when I agreed to the interview,

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but the questions CK asked were the personal and challenging.

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Definitely not just another Bitcoin podcast.

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Excited to check out her other interviews.

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Well, I've got a couple of thoughts on that.

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Firstly, I'm excited by your personal and challenging questions.

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Do you know the background to my interview with him?

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Do you know I met him in Uruguay?

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No.

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So I went out to LeBitCon.

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I know you interviewed him when no one knew anything about Mike Peters or El Salvador, for that matter.

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Nothing at all. I think I was probably one of the first people to go there. So what happened was I was at LeBitConf in Uruguay and I was stood outside the conference venue and he came up to me. I think he was with his son. And he said, I've got this project in El Salvador. And I was like, okay, tell me about it. He said, yeah, it's called Bitcoin Beach. It's in a place called El Zante. Someone's given us some Bitcoin and we use it to help people locally and we accept Bitcoin. And I was like, sounds cool. Can I see it? He said, yeah.

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So I went straight on my phone, looked up the flights to El Salvador.

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I think I had to go via Panama.

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And two days later, I was in El Salvador.

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I was down in El Zonte with him looking at his project, having some pupusa.

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And then obviously, after that, everything went wild in El Salvador.

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But that was pre...

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I think Bukele was in power at that point.

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But Jack Mallers hadn't been...

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The whole Bitcoin project hadn't started.

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It was just...

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It was him at a beach.

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I mean I thought I did a good interview with Michael and if he says yours was the best

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and the questions were personal and challenging I'm I'm excited okay let's start with my 21 takes

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on you and let's take it from there ready takes on me yeah 21 takes on you wow okay okay here we

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go you've got a big heart what does it come from my big heart yeah oh I don't know if you ever know

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why do you say I have a big heart? Because I have followed you since the very beginning so

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I think you have a huge heart I think you are generous I think you you see the good in people

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I think I'm just being who I am is nature nurture my mother would have played a huge role in that

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she had a huge heart she trained to be a nurse in her 40s and decided that's what she wanted to do

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because she wanted to help kids and look after kids and she also worked for a charity for the

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church called St. Vincent de Paul, where, I don't know, a woman who's left her husband and has been

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just moved into a temporary accommodation or immigrants had come into the town and they didn't

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have any furniture. She would help them get furniture. And I used to see her do that. So

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perhaps it came from my mom because my mom never cared about money. She never gave a damn about

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money. She cared about people. I think that's probably rubbed off on me.

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Were you always a bit of a troublemaker?

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Yes, I was always a bit of a troublemaker. I'm the youngest of three. My brother and

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and sister were born a year apart four years later my dad had a few beers took a look at my mom

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accidentally made me in cyprus and uh yeah so trying to compete with an older brother and sister

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um i was like the little rebel kid rock and roll kid punk rock kid kid and yeah i've always been a

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troublemaker yeah okay so what two out of these six qualities make someone most british must be

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able to huddle massive amount of liquor must curse creatively and at all times apologize for

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everything bad teeth but deeply sorry about it secretly believe tea solves actual emergencies

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and handovers and best world-class humor ever well the world-class humor of course yeah of course

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i think it's all six how can i how can i choose between a perfect description of british people

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in six takes um i think the irish are better with the liquor okay i am half irish as well

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and we do swear a lot for youtube we need to not swear for the first 15 minutes um

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i'm trying to not swear for the first 15 minutes of any interview i give or or do um i think you've

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missed one which one we uh we are very civil in the way we queue up i just do yeah yeah we see a

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and we just join it.

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But yeah, look, we swear a lot, T-Souls.

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I'm going to go with-

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You apologize for everything.

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Yeah, I'm sorry about that.

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I think we're just quite civil people.

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Although I think that's going at the moment.

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Life is hard.

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I think people are starting to get a little bit sick

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of what's happening

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and people are losing their temper a little bit over things.

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But I would say I'm going to go with T-Souls everything.

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any argument you can pause say let's have a cup of tea and that solves something and uh it's humor

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and i think we are the funniest people in the world it's the thing i miss the most when i leave

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the uk even in america um americans aren't very funny um and the annoying thing about their humor

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is they think they're funny but they're not funny and they don't understand sarcasm or irony it's

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very brash like just shouting your face humor um and it's not funny and so when i'm in america

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i find it painful hanging around with americans when they think they're being funny and then i

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i will say the most amazing joke and then inside i have to just laugh to myself because it

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completely passes by do you see parts of your dad in how you are today huh if you'd have asked me

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that a few years ago I said no because me and my dad are very different my dad is very safe

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risk averse um very careful with money whereas I'm a lunatic I take endless risks and

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financial risks career risks and I accept what will be will be but my dad also did work very

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hard he put a work ethic into me he wanted me to go to a private school and have a good education

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He thought education was the most important thing.

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And he could not afford to send me to private school on his salary as an aircraft engineer,

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which was four days on, four days off, 12-hour shifts.

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But in those four days off, if there was overtime, he would accept it every single time,

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which means he just worked endlessly.

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And I got that work ethic from him.

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But what was interesting about my dad is that as he retired, he became, he just chilled out a lot,

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became very relaxed, non-confrontational, very soft, very gentle towards people.

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And there's parts of me I sense that's coming. And I wonder where it comes from sometimes. I think

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perhaps it's, I mean, for me personally, whether you're religious or not, we all wonder what's next.

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It's one of two things. It's nothingness forever or something. And if it's something,

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well we've been raised to think there may be a judgment on who we are which puts you in a

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position of some existential perspective and spiritual perspective on life and you know we

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defer things in life for me the diet always starts tomorrow okay and then I go to my coffee shop and

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I have a chocolate croissant it's like okay it's another day and I think sometimes we defer some of

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our decisions perhaps what are moral decisions we defer them and think we can repent later in life

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but i think when you face death i think if you were struck down with a terminal illness

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you have now a ticking time clock and i assume people make very quick changes to their lives

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one with regards to how they use their time and secondly with how they behave and the decisions

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they make and I was thinking about this the other day is why would you defer being a good person

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why would you defer how you consider your time and until a point where you're faced with

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looking at death in the face and so and myself starting to think a lot more about

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like how I use my time and my uh the decisions I make and whether there's any harm that comes

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from decisions I've made or do make. And I'm trying to make less of them now. And I think

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that that makes you a more gentler, slower still person. And I think that's what I see

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from my dad in me now. It's a long answer to a simple question.

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It's a great answer. What is it like to be a father?

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Oh, that's a really good question.

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I have plenty of them.

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It's not really a Bitcoin interview, is it? It's a life interview.

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um 21 takes on you and then bitcoin hits yeah i mean being a father is is incredible and hard

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it's the best thing in the world and the biggest pain in the ass it's a constant challenge

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you never stop being a father my dad i still turn to him for things now he's his late 70s and i'm in

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my late 40s and he's always 30 years ahead of me and he's got 30 years of wisdom more than me on

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certain things. We have a problem. We have a problem in the world that you and I are really

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acutely aware of, which is inflation and a financial system that is designed to extract

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from the poorest and the middle class and to give to the richest in society, which is why we buy

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Bitcoin. But so fragile is the world's financial system now. And so late are we in this kind of

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debt cycle that you really start to think about the world you're leaving for your kids and we are

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leaving a much worse world. American HODL said this, he said money is a proxy for time.

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You earn money to save so you can buy time to do other things to give yourself optionality.

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But if we as a, and I say the collective we as a country, take on debt, we are actively stealing

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from our kids future and when you think about that how cowardly is that for us as humans to say to

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our kids i want stuff now so you are going to pay for it in the future i mean it's cowardly i would

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never do that to my own children i i build up a life for me and hope to leave them more than i've

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had to give them a better life and better options and better choices more freedom and i think most

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parents want to do that for their children but collectively as a society we don't do that we

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consume from their future to have what we want now and that is to me is pure cowardice and so i feel

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like i i think about my job as a parent but i also think of our jobs our generation we have a

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collective parental job for the collective future of our children we are doing a terrible job we are

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doing a terrible job. I wish I'd had more children. I have two. I wish I'd had more.

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I regret that. It's probably my biggest regret in life. And...

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Why is that?

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Because, you know, like last night, we went to the shops and we got home and I cooked

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a Sunday roast. I don't cook often. And the kids had been making fun of the last Christmas

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dinner I made a year ago saying it was rubbish. I was like, no, it's good. It's good. I was

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like screw you i'm gonna prove it and so uh i made sunday dinner it took me three hours

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and because i'm there at the kitchen making the dinner we're all kind of hanging around

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talking having fun and then we all sit and eat together whereas if we go to a pub and have dinner

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the conversations are slightly different because we all sat together the whole meal you're forced

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into the conversation whereas when you're making the meal you're all a bit mobile around the room

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doing your own things, dipping in and out of conversations.

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And we just had a really good time together.

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Like it was quite special to just spend that time.

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If I hadn't have cooked dinner, maybe I'd have ordered a takeaway

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and would have sat on our lap in front of the TV and watched football.

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But we didn't. We were together as a family.

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What's the process for turning the next generation into builders?

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Not heirs, but into builders.

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It's education, really. And it's more than education. You've got to give them something to believe in and inspiration. I remember leaving school and being excited about the world, that I can go and get a job and create a business and buy a home. And I was excited by the world.

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mobile phones were very new there was texts and calls the internet was an exciting new frontier

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and I think what the kids can face now is very different they've been raised on mobile phones

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and social media and their peer group isn't the other kids who live on the same street as them as

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the ones they go to school with their peer group is the entire world so whereas we saw the kid at

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school who was maybe the better runner who was better at chemistry or math they see the kid who's

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20 years old and drives a lamborghini and lives in dubai or the girl who dances on tiktok and is

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a multi-millionaire or a girl who goes on to bloody only fans and makes millions of pounds

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and that creates a pressure to be something that's unachievable for the vast majority of

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kids now. And then the reality of what's in front of them is,

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can I make a life as a multimillionaire doing something on this phone?

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Or do I do something locally in my community? And what can I do? Where can I work? What

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opportunities exist? I remember when Connor started working at what Bitcoin did and then

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left. So I'm curious about that process to turn next generation, your kids into builders.

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because there's some worry well nepotism helps um he and i went out to uh malaysia early in the

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year earlier last year i met up with belagi and we went for a walk with belagi around

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forest city where we were and belagi made this very interesting point i was explaining how

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connor's quit university and is working with me and he said you're basically doing what happened

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you know a century or two ago where connor's come to work on the farm you're the farmer he's come to

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work on the farm and the reason this is good is well he's half your dna and you can imprint on him

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what you think are important values and so he will get to create a life based on that experience with

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you it's better than a university experience and it's a fair point because university is

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I think largely considered a scam now you get a huge amount of debt with no guarantee of job at

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the end of it um whereas Connor has no debt he has a job he has skills he's mobile he's financially

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secure and he's had that because he's had to work with me but that's he's in that fortunate position

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how many kids have got that yeah and so how do you inspire a generation to be builders

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I think you just have to set them a good example and I don't think we're doing that right now

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I would hate to be a kid right now.

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They've got every opportunity in front of them

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and everything just feels so hard and distant.

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I mean, how are most kids these days

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meant to afford to get on the property ladder?

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I mean, it's virtually impossible.

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So it's tough.

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What makes a good partner?

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A good partner?

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You don't mean business partner, do you?

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Not necessarily, but it's up to you.

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I don't think I make a good partner.

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because i prioritized the wrong things it cost me my marriage so i i don't really know what makes a

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good partner because i've never really been a good partner myself i think i'm a difficult person to be

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in a relationship with because i i have adhd um so i can't switch off i'm always thinking about how

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I can save the world um and I just I'm always reading or watching things or listening to things

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and consuming the information and knowledge and trying to process it and I think um if you want

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to be in a relationship with somebody it's about uh being a partner as you say use that word a team

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creating a team that takes on the world and and I've never really done that I've always

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have gone solo and probably when I've had that person with me not spent enough time

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thinking about well what does the world mean to mean for them and what do they want

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and supporting them in what they want to do I've always just been tunnel visual on mine it's like

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you join me for the ride I'm on I'll see you later something even my kids had to adapt to

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but I am in that really reflective period of my life where that recognition of understanding what

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ADHD means for an adult helped me understand why I keep starting businesses and doing things and

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creating movements and never really finishing them and so I've started to slow down I've started to

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switch off some of the things I was doing because I'd rather actually just spend time with my kids

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and so in doing that perhaps over the next year or so i may be the kind of person who would make

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a good partner because i've understood my own priorities are wrong so so i don't know i'm i've

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just never i don't think i've been a very good partner to anyone what were your obsessions

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growing up oh good um good question uh music i was obsessed by music i understand rock and roll

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heavy metal i started a fanzine when i was 15 i'd go around and interview bands which was really

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cool i'd turn up at concerts and be on the guest list to go and i interviewed corn skunker nancy

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pantera slayer it was amazing i used to get all my cds for free um so that i was obsessed with

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music just obsessed uh skateboarding yeah but i used to just finish school on on a friday get

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a skateboard and uh lurk street car park behind here you know the car park behind here um no on

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the street behind here where we are let street car park we used to go up to the fifth floor and when we had cars and we were driving we park up the car we stick on some punk and we would skateboard for an hour two hours and then go to a club called Esquires and rock out I was obsessed with that and I was obsessed with making

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money I didn't have a poor life but my dad's put all his money into schooling and I wanted money

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so I just worked I had paper rounds and a milk round and worked in a factory you know worked in

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a local shop anything i could to earn money i was obsessed with making money was football a big

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thing at home back then i loved football i wasn't a very good player so so i love football i've

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always liked football i became more of an obsession as an adult but that wasn't an obsession with

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football as such that's an obsession with trying to ensure my local town as a team that's successful

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so it's more about the community and we are we are one of the largest towns in the country that's

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never had a professional team and i was like well how do we make that happen a childhood lesson

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that still shapes your decisions today so i was obsessed with money i wanted to make money my dad

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had a friend successful friend a guy called keith mason uh sadly died a couple years ago um but he

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was the successful guy in my dad's community of friends he had the big house his own business

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and we were on holiday in cyprus once a year and he was there and i must have been about 14 years

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old and i said to him i remember asking him i said what's it like to sack somebody i was you know

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like the apprentice you're fired i asked him all excited and he said to me pete listen

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sacking somebody is one of the hardest things you ever have to do because when you do that

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that person might have a wife kids a home and you've taken away from them their income and at

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the point they don't have their income you've introduced instability into their life and that's

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I mean I don't remember his words exactly but it was along these lines

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and it really hit me hard and so I've always been worried about other people's financial position

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and so when I make decisions I like any of my businesses if it costs somebody a job I

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I dwell on it a lot I think about it a lot and maybe that's part of like your heart question

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I do worry about other people's finances.

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Right now, the global economy, the economy here in the UK,

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I am planning to protect myself,

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knowing other people are going to get absolutely screwed.

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That lives with me.

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That really kind of unsettles me.

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What's your most expensive mistake?

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There's so many ways you can answer that.

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like you can answer that financially buying a bar was an expensive mistake and emotionally

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i think the most expensive mistake i made was um not loving my wife enough because it cost me my

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marriage and then cost me my family being a unit i took it for granted um it was very selfish

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focused on myself and my career and ultimately she didn't want anything to do with that anymore

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and it's a really weird thing because it fundamentally changed my life my company

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collapsed afterwards my health went I became a drug addict I hit what you would call rock bottom

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I nearly went bankrupt and then I stopped I went running for a year chance meeting of a podcaster

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called Rich Roll, started a podcast, discovered Bitcoin, made some good money, bought a football

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club, and now I can functionally retire if I want to. So weirdly, it kind of changed the direction

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of my life professionally in the most amazing, incredible way. I've got to travel the world,

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been to 50 countries with this podcast, I've made documentaries, I've met so many incredible

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people. But the cost was my marriage and my family, and that's never left me. I still think

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about it most days with a huge amount of regret, primarily because I wasn't a good person.

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I just wasn't a nice person at all. I was so obsessed with success and making money.

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and whatever trauma that is about i don't know you know maybe it's because i went to a private

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school and my dad couldn't afford it and i was surrounded by rich kids and wanted to prove

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myself maybe it's because i was just the youngest of three and wanted to prove myself

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but whatever it is my ego required success and money and that meant i hurt people

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that loved me and and i think about that a lot

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what's one stupid risk you took that actually paid off taking copious amounts of cocaine

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which led me to a website called the silk road which led me to bitcoin i mean taking drugs each

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time you snort cocaine you're taking a risk with your life you can you can die you know and you're

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becoming a drug user and eventually for me a drug addict so that was a huge risk um but i discovered

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bitcoin was changed my life um another one was just for for no reason at all i just decided to

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attend a yoga retreat in italy um after i separated from my wife because it was run by this podcast

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that i was listening to i was like i think i need to be at this yoga retreat so i went to it met the

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guy and became friends with him and started a podcast um going out to Italy to be at a yoga

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retreat with a bunch of people I didn't know a bunch of vegans was a was a was a risk but I think

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the biggest risk I'm gonna take is ahead of me in in that um I I have a I have a need to go through

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an ego death I've got an ego and I have a need to go through that and I'm kind of going through

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at the moment and with that um it's a risk because what i'm doing is ending not ending that's the

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wrong word but refocusing myself so that i can maximize the time i have with my family and the

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people i love which means sacrificing maybe some of my ambitions and that's a risk but maybe that

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will pay off. Are you ready to sacrifice some of your ambitions? Yeah, I've been doing it recently.

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I've been cutting things out of my life, selling businesses I have and saying no to things that

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I want to do. I've been offered the opportunity to become a MP. Yeah. I mean, what an incredible

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thing. Honour would be if I was to run and just say I had a chance of winning to become MP,

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say for Bedford. That would be a huge honour and commitment. And you'd be in the Houses of

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parliament and you would be one of the 650 people who get to govern this country in terms of

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ambition it'd be incredible and you are near the levers of power but the cost of that would be

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less time with my children and i'm i'm not willing to make that sacrifice i think the bigger risks are

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the ones now your children are gonna lift the nest yeah i know i know but but i can still be a

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farther from distance even if they leave the nest if they need me i want to be able to go okay i'm

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there you need to have the time yeah but also next i'm reading a lot at the moment i'm reading so

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many different books at the same time just old wise books i'm i'm near the end of dante's inferno

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um i'm halfway through rereading bastiat's the law um i've just downloaded machiavelli's of the

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prints. I intend to go back and read the Odyssey, the Iliad and the Aeneid books I read as a kid.

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There's so much wisdom in these old books and when you look at how society is at the moment

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I want to have the kind of the wisdom and knowledge so that if my kids need some kind

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of guidance it's not from me guessing what's going on in the world but just standing on the

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shoulders of giants who warned us about all of this what's something you dream of

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oh man ice if i told you what i dream of yes do you mean i actually dream the dreams i have when

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i go to sleep or my ambition dreams i'm more curious right now about what you dream when you

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go to sleep gosh if i told you that'd be so embarrassing no i'll tell you afterwards okay

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but i do have recurring dreams whereby i can't complete a task i'll tell you the funny one i

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had a dream once i was in the british open golf and i was winning and we get to the final t

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do you understand golf what i mean by t the last hole so you put the ball on to strike it

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it's the final fairway I've got to hit down and I'm winning and I put the ball on the tee and it

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falls off and every time I try and put the ball back on the tee it falls off and it keeps falling

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off and like everyone's like saying to me come on come on and I just can't get the ball on the tee

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and everyone just leaves and I've had so many dreams like that where I'm near to something

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and I cannot complete the task,

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it's kind of a bit like my ADHD.

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And what do you see it means?

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That I don't complete things.

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Because that's true, I don't complete things.

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I just move from one thing to the next thing.

333
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I get bored very quickly and have to do...

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I start a podcast and it's like the biggest Bitcoin podcast in the world.

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Not enough, I've got to start a football team.

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Not enough, I've got to buy a bar.

337
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No, not enough, I've got to become an MP.

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I've got to fix my local town.

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and it's just like I don't finish things.

340
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And it's like what is going on there?

341
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What is this constant need to prove something?

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But I've stopped it.

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Like I said, I've kind of got to that point where I was like,

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ah, I don't need to do that anymore.

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And I don't know if I've had one of those dreams recently.

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Are you in therapy right now?

347
00:31:48,018 --> 00:31:49,058
No, I tried it.

348
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I did try it after my divorce, but it just didn't work for me.

349
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Okay.

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No, I'm very good at living in the present right now.

351
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I used to have anxiety, which we know anxiety is a bit worried about the future.

352
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The future, yeah.

353
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Depression is worried about the past.

354
00:32:03,438 --> 00:32:04,038
I have neither.

355
00:32:04,198 --> 00:32:06,858
I'm very peaceful and happy and content right now.

356
00:32:06,998 --> 00:32:11,338
I have, you know, a perfect day to me is like today's a good day, right?

357
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I get up, get my daughter ready for school, drop her off, go and have a cup of coffee

358
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and do a bit of writing.

359
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I'm here having a lovely conversation with you.

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I'm going to go back.

361
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I'm probably going to play tennis with my son.

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Then I'm going to pick my daughter up.

363
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I'm going to make dinner and we're all going to have dinner together.

364
00:32:24,918 --> 00:32:31,598
that's living in the present if i'm worried about the future i'm not gonna have that tennis game with

365
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my son because i'm gonna be working and yeah maybe i'd order a takeaway and we'd sit there and

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and then i'll get my laptop out and start working again i just there's a funny thing about money

367
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i think most people want to make good money most people like i'd love to be a millionaire i want to

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make money and my thesis on money is quite simple it's like being broke sucks like not being able

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to afford to pay your rent, feed your kids. That sucks. Nobody wants to be in that position. It's

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awful. Worrying about money all the time sucks. But once you get to a certain position, it's not

371
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rich. You get to the point whereby you don't have to worry about day to day. You might not realize

372
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it, but you are rich because you have control over your time. You don't have to worry. Everything

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after that is a lump. The Lamborghini is just a lump. A bigger house is a lump. People get yachts

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and they're just lumps it's like when when you've when have you got enough and none of them actually

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bring like i love cars don't get me wrong and i've had poor shasta martin i've always just had

376
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wanted there's always been like the goal the next car i want i can live without it i would much

377
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rather just play tennis or read a book or hang out with my family and that's that's a recent thing

378
00:33:46,398 --> 00:33:52,418
i've discovered which which is maybe where some of my ambition has gone from because yeah i don't

379
00:33:52,418 --> 00:33:55,938
know i can't remember what was the question again something you dream of do you know what i just

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00:33:55,938 --> 00:34:00,878
right i mean i've told you what i dream of in terms of like that weird not being able to finish

381
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something but ambition dreams i don't have any anymore be a granddad be a granddad yeah i cannot

382
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wait for the day and it's i don't want them to do it yet cannot wait but my son's like he's early

383
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20 if he came home one day and said i'd be over the moon i look forward to being able to help my

384
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kids with their kids I I look forward to be able to wake up with no commitments at all just get up

385
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and be able to read and write and maybe just help other people I'd like to be able to do things for

386
00:34:34,278 --> 00:34:40,758
other people now that's great you're in a great position yeah I honestly I'm it's quite reflective

387
00:34:40,758 --> 00:34:46,518
time but yeah I've never achieved anything truly incredible and I'm very content with life now

388
00:34:46,998 --> 00:34:50,758
I always thought ambition was about reaching for something.

389
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But actually, I realized for me, it was about running away from something,

390
00:34:57,238 --> 00:35:00,898
from the personal battle you have with your own ego.

391
00:35:03,598 --> 00:35:07,778
Yeah, again, I can only speak for me, but I've become content

392
00:35:07,778 --> 00:35:12,718
by very small little things like making dinner last night with the kids.

393
00:35:13,178 --> 00:35:16,078
When you realize what does really make you happy,

394
00:35:16,078 --> 00:35:25,338
like when are you truly happy the the gift of my divorce was i've had two really weird gifts when

395
00:35:25,338 --> 00:35:30,938
i explain their gifts i mean their gifts because if you look at them and accept the perspective

396
00:35:30,938 --> 00:35:35,938
that comes with it they can teach you something so my divorce was hugely painful it was a horrible

397
00:35:35,938 --> 00:35:44,578
thing to go through but it was also a gift in that i uh ended up taking a year off work i didn't do

398
00:35:44,578 --> 00:35:49,998
anything for a year i ran i ran every day i was coming off drugs and trying to get my act together

399
00:35:49,998 --> 00:35:55,898
and i was suffering with like chronic anxiety couldn't get out of bed and i'd gone to the

400
00:35:55,898 --> 00:35:59,198
doctor and they wanted to put me on antidepressants and i didn't want that so i went and bought some

401
00:35:59,198 --> 00:36:03,758
trainers i just started running and i ran every day the river down have you seen the river yeah

402
00:36:03,758 --> 00:36:08,318
it's beautiful i used to run up and down the river 10 kilometers a day and a half marathon a week

403
00:36:08,318 --> 00:36:15,038
and I'd go home and I'd have nothing to do and so I'd try and find things to do and it might be like

404
00:36:15,038 --> 00:36:19,658
clear up a drawer or clear up a room and then I'd have nothing to do so I started going to the gym

405
00:36:19,658 --> 00:36:25,118
and I'd do whatever was on at the gym I was doing Pilates with old women and yoga and whatever

406
00:36:25,118 --> 00:36:31,998
and then suddenly I started to get busy again but I was busy with the choices I wanted like how I

407
00:36:31,998 --> 00:36:39,498
would spend my time and that was a huge gift um and the second gift is going to sound super weird

408
00:36:39,498 --> 00:36:47,038
but when my mum died she had cancer and there's only one good thing about cancer is that it gives

409
00:36:47,038 --> 00:36:53,998
you time like if if my dad passed away say he has a heart attack it's gonna be that you're gonna get

410
00:36:53,998 --> 00:37:00,558
a phone call and that's it he's gone but when somebody gets cancer you have a it's awful don't

411
00:37:00,558 --> 00:37:05,878
get me wrong anyone listening i'm not saying cancer's cool in any way at all but you get um

412
00:37:05,878 --> 00:37:10,838
you get the gift of time if you choose to accept it so when my mum had cancer she was living in

413
00:37:10,838 --> 00:37:17,758
ireland uh if she'd have died at the age she died which was 67 i actually think what's the date today

414
00:37:17,758 --> 00:37:23,178
january 12th yeah i think today is the ninth anniversary of her death i'm pretty sure it's

415
00:37:23,178 --> 00:37:28,318
the january the 12th she died um and because they were living in ireland i'd see them once or twice

416
00:37:28,318 --> 00:37:34,178
a year so say she had a heart attack from the period we found out she'd had cancer that i would

417
00:37:34,178 --> 00:37:39,558
have seen her six times because she had cancer i i was seeing her twice a month so i got to spend a

418
00:37:39,558 --> 00:37:46,598
lot more time with my mum because of that and the only gift of that is is that that appreciation of

419
00:37:46,598 --> 00:37:51,158
time with the people you love there's this really good website called i think it's called wait but

420
00:37:51,158 --> 00:37:56,838
why and it's got this chart and it and it says how many times a year do you see your parents

421
00:37:56,838 --> 00:37:59,898
what's the average age they live to this is how many more times you're going to see them and you

422
00:37:59,898 --> 00:38:04,718
look at the number and it's something weird like nine or twelve and you're like crap I'm going to

423
00:38:04,718 --> 00:38:09,598
see my parents twelve more times and so when you get that perspective you want to spend more time

424
00:38:09,598 --> 00:38:14,238
with them and the perspective I got from that a long way down the line is I just want to spend

425
00:38:14,238 --> 00:38:21,878
more time with my kids I want to maximize the time I have with them and so ambition for me it's a false

426
00:38:21,878 --> 00:38:28,078
got in that what is it you're trying to do and what do you think it's going to do for you when

427
00:38:28,078 --> 00:38:33,698
you get there so i start a bitcoin podcast ends up becoming the biggest in the world i can get

428
00:38:33,698 --> 00:38:39,598
nearly any bitcoin interview i want it pays good money i get it's just the most incredible life

429
00:38:39,598 --> 00:38:50,498
and when i got there and what i'm in texas in an airbnb and my kids are here in the uk and i'm not

430
00:38:50,498 --> 00:38:57,018
with them and when i come back i'm busy like what actually does it mean what because some people say

431
00:38:57,018 --> 00:39:01,058
wow you've done a great job can have a photo and it's like but what does that actually mean

432
00:39:01,058 --> 00:39:07,998
does it like where does happiness come from does happiness come from people saying you've done a

433
00:39:07,998 --> 00:39:14,798
great job i mean how many times do you hear that and it's yeah it's meaningless you know you've done

434
00:39:14,798 --> 00:39:19,278
it you've done a good job but it's kind of meaningless yeah i understand like again what

435
00:39:19,278 --> 00:39:25,458
when are you truly happy driving my daughter to school this morning and we're listening to punk

436
00:39:25,458 --> 00:39:30,158
rock we're listening to a band called pierce the veil and singing together that's a great moment

437
00:39:30,158 --> 00:39:33,798
i'm happy and when i'm sat in my coffee shop and i'm right i'm having a coffee i'm happy

438
00:39:33,798 --> 00:39:40,218
as hard as this interview is because you're making me really um be vulnerable and open up to a bunch

439
00:39:40,218 --> 00:39:45,898
of people are going to make fun of me on uh online i'm still it's nice to have this conversation and

440
00:39:45,898 --> 00:39:49,218
when i go and play tennis with my son it's going to be great we're going to run around we're going

441
00:39:49,218 --> 00:39:55,838
he's going to probably win and I'm going to be out of breath and tired. But again, I'm going to

442
00:39:55,838 --> 00:39:58,458
be enjoying it. And then I'm going to pick up my daughter and we're going to go and make dinner.

443
00:39:58,578 --> 00:40:04,418
And it's great. And like in the moment, it feels good because you're enjoying what you're doing.

444
00:40:05,378 --> 00:40:09,438
And that's not to say building that podcast, I didn't have a great, I had so many great moments.

445
00:40:10,298 --> 00:40:16,378
That's a lot of sacrifices though. And so my relationship with ambition is

446
00:40:16,378 --> 00:40:24,258
I'm going to try and live day to day doing the things that make me happy. And if with that

447
00:40:24,258 --> 00:40:31,098
success comes and that has some benefits, then great. Like my podcast now, if I wanted to have

448
00:40:31,098 --> 00:40:35,658
2 million downloads next month, I know how to do it. I know which people to interview, which topics

449
00:40:35,658 --> 00:40:43,558
and how to trigger people. But actually I just, me and my son drive to London to the studio to

450
00:40:43,558 --> 00:40:47,478
make the interview so each day we do that we leave at eight in the morning we get back at six seven

451
00:40:47,478 --> 00:40:52,098
o'clock and i'm tired and so you kind of lose a day and the time in the car with him is great

452
00:40:52,098 --> 00:40:57,358
because we talk about stuff but i said to him we could build that studio we have that beautiful

453
00:40:57,358 --> 00:41:01,098
studio in london we could build something it's not going to be as cool or fancy but we could build

454
00:41:01,098 --> 00:41:06,238
one in the house and then if we're talking about something we want to make a show we can just go in

455
00:41:06,238 --> 00:41:12,398
that room and make it and we lose an hour we don't lose a whole day and that means we can get to do

456
00:41:12,398 --> 00:41:20,418
more of the stuff we want to do quality of time yeah my my ambition is tied to maximizing the years

457
00:41:20,418 --> 00:41:26,418
i have left doing things i want to do and if benefits come off the back of that great and if

458
00:41:26,418 --> 00:41:32,378
i wither away and nobody remembers me then so be it as long as i'm doing the things i want to do

459
00:41:32,378 --> 00:41:51,536
each day this is such a deep interview i know i know why he said that now so you like showing off Has that ever got you in trouble Yes it has It has but I am becoming more introverted Yeah Again I think

460
00:41:51,536 --> 00:41:56,956
ambition and showing off for me were correlated. Again, it was just all about ego,

461
00:41:57,416 --> 00:42:04,856
trying to prove myself to the world. I can be somebody. That ties probably back to my

462
00:42:04,996 --> 00:42:11,716
failure of my marriage we go to a party and i'll try and be the center of attention the funny guy

463
00:42:11,716 --> 00:42:16,716
telling the stories and shit and just leave her in the background and forgot about her neglected

464
00:42:16,716 --> 00:42:25,036
got me in trouble there um i've probably a lot of people on twitter think i'm a dick

465
00:42:25,036 --> 00:42:30,496
the funny thing about twitter is it's a bit like in business i always say to people work for me

466
00:42:30,496 --> 00:42:35,496
don't have important conversations over text because you can't hear the tone the context of

467
00:42:35,496 --> 00:42:40,076
people saying things so you might read it as rude and it's actually polite i think twitter's like

468
00:42:40,076 --> 00:42:44,076
that sometimes i'm like when i'm like writing something i'm cracking up and thinking it's

469
00:42:44,076 --> 00:42:50,696
funny and if somebody reads it might just look like really rude yeah what's the worst thing i

470
00:42:50,696 --> 00:42:57,356
could do to you the worst thing you could do to me i mean i could think of some awful things but

471
00:42:57,356 --> 00:42:59,136
I don't think we need to go there.

472
00:42:59,496 --> 00:43:00,956
The worst thing you could do to me?

473
00:43:01,776 --> 00:43:04,136
To me, I value loyalty.

474
00:43:05,076 --> 00:43:06,596
Have you read Dante's Inferno?

475
00:43:07,056 --> 00:43:07,336
No.

476
00:43:07,776 --> 00:43:10,316
So I'm just reading it now because I was listening to an interview

477
00:43:10,316 --> 00:43:13,636
between Mike Cernovich and Tucker Carlson, and he mentions it.

478
00:43:14,536 --> 00:43:17,716
And it's about the journey through hell.

479
00:43:17,976 --> 00:43:19,436
And there's nine rings of hell.

480
00:43:19,716 --> 00:43:23,416
Before you get to hell, there's an era of limbo for the cowards,

481
00:43:23,556 --> 00:43:24,616
which I think about a lot.

482
00:43:24,616 --> 00:43:30,376
but the final rig of hell the deepest part of hell is reserved for the treacherous people

483
00:43:30,376 --> 00:43:38,496
and so for judas i i'm not there yet because i haven't finished the book but my i as i understand

484
00:43:38,496 --> 00:43:44,256
it judas is in uh he's there and they're frozen in a lake and the deeper the treachery the deeper

485
00:43:44,256 --> 00:43:50,176
you are in the lake and i think satan gnaws on you uh so yeah treachery you know it's something

486
00:43:50,176 --> 00:43:54,436
disloyal i don't think you could do something so disloyal to me unless you ai'd this to say i

487
00:43:54,436 --> 00:43:58,616
things I didn't say. But if you're asking generally what's the word, not you personally,

488
00:43:58,776 --> 00:44:04,656
I think, yeah, disloyalty. Yeah. And I think about disloyalty in two ways. Someone can be

489
00:44:04,656 --> 00:44:10,576
disloyal to you, but you can be disloyal to yourself. And that's a form of treachery that

490
00:44:10,576 --> 00:44:15,976
we all should try and face. Like not getting in shape. I'm being disloyal to myself. I'm

491
00:44:15,976 --> 00:44:22,756
being disloyal to this body I've been given. And I am increasing my chances of dying younger

492
00:44:22,756 --> 00:44:25,516
than necessary because I don't look after my health.

493
00:44:26,436 --> 00:44:28,616
The secret behind making friends.

494
00:44:31,516 --> 00:44:34,436
Well, I've made friends and enemies.

495
00:44:35,316 --> 00:44:37,816
Well, I mean, making friends and keeping friends

496
00:44:37,816 --> 00:44:38,936
is two different things.

497
00:44:39,616 --> 00:44:41,016
I mean, making friends, you just,

498
00:44:41,996 --> 00:44:44,616
there's just something where something clicks with somebody

499
00:44:44,616 --> 00:44:45,436
and you get on well with them.

500
00:44:45,436 --> 00:44:47,716
Like I met a guy on an airplane once, a guy called Justin,

501
00:44:48,136 --> 00:44:50,316
who actually came up with the name What Bitcoin Did, by the way.

502
00:44:50,996 --> 00:44:52,416
And we just clicked and we became friends

503
00:44:52,416 --> 00:44:53,136
and we stayed friends.

504
00:44:53,236 --> 00:44:55,436
But I think loyalty goes in there.

505
00:44:57,636 --> 00:44:59,576
Just always being there for somebody,

506
00:45:00,016 --> 00:45:01,936
them knowing you're always there and that you will be there.

507
00:45:03,016 --> 00:45:06,256
Can you tell me a story of decay you witnessed in your own circle,

508
00:45:06,756 --> 00:45:07,976
one that really touched you?

509
00:45:08,676 --> 00:45:09,596
Oh, decay.

510
00:45:11,536 --> 00:45:16,256
My mother was diagnosed with stage 3B ovarian cancer,

511
00:45:16,256 --> 00:45:21,516
so I watched her body decay to the point of death.

512
00:45:21,516 --> 00:45:23,376
I was there in the hospital.

513
00:45:24,076 --> 00:45:28,016
I popped home and she died after I popped back to my dad's.

514
00:45:28,556 --> 00:45:32,416
And I watched that and I saw her body give up.

515
00:45:33,376 --> 00:45:39,876
I saw her get frail and regularly need to be going back and forth to hospital

516
00:45:39,876 --> 00:45:44,596
and then be in hospital permanently and then die.

517
00:45:44,756 --> 00:45:45,896
So I've seen that.

518
00:45:47,256 --> 00:45:50,496
Do you want to hear the most incredible thing?

519
00:45:50,496 --> 00:45:56,776
so in ireland if you die um they bury you within two days they don't muck around and the body they

520
00:45:56,776 --> 00:46:01,916
leave the body in the house in an open casket like my mom was just there in an open casket we're all

521
00:46:01,916 --> 00:46:05,896
having cheese sandwiches and drinking beer and doing what the irish do and then we get up in the

522
00:46:05,896 --> 00:46:13,356
morning to take her to the um church for the service anyway we carry her down put her in the

523
00:46:13,356 --> 00:46:19,456
car get in the car turn the corner and there's a rainbow and the end of the rainbow is on the church

524
00:46:19,456 --> 00:46:25,316
i've got a photo i'll show you okay and i was like wow look at that isn't that weird

525
00:46:25,316 --> 00:46:32,576
and then we went through a period of a few years of everyone in the family seeing rainbows at the

526
00:46:32,576 --> 00:46:38,276
maddest times like my i don't know might be my mom's birthday my sister went over to ireland

527
00:46:38,276 --> 00:46:43,236
played golf with my dad and there's a rainbow i've got a tweet thread i'll show you and it's just

528
00:46:43,236 --> 00:46:48,936
it just happened over and over again it was just the weirdest thing anyway that's a tangent

529
00:46:48,936 --> 00:47:06,976
I think the biggest story of decay is we are watching the world decay at a rapid rate. I mean, we have a revolution appearing to happen in Iran at the moment. We have the black bagging of Maduro in Venezuela. And what does that mean?

530
00:47:06,976 --> 00:47:16,256
We have the unfortunate confrontation between ICE agents and the young mother in America where she ends up dead.

531
00:47:16,856 --> 00:47:19,956
We've got endless conflict here.

532
00:47:20,476 --> 00:47:22,416
Everyone is at conflict everywhere.

533
00:47:22,956 --> 00:47:27,196
We swing from existential crisis to existential crisis.

534
00:47:28,076 --> 00:47:31,976
Every political party treats the other one like they are.

535
00:47:32,136 --> 00:47:33,876
If they win, it's existential crisis.

536
00:47:33,876 --> 00:47:42,376
and whilst that happens we are slowly quietly watching the extraction of all wealth

537
00:47:42,376 --> 00:47:50,856
upwards from the poorest middle class to the rich and in doing so society is just

538
00:47:50,856 --> 00:47:58,216
fracturing and decaying itself a lot of people feel it but don't see it we as bitcoiners we know

539
00:47:58,216 --> 00:48:02,836
exactly what's happening we know exactly what's going on we're trying to tell everyone

540
00:48:02,836 --> 00:48:09,816
but everyone else feels it but they feel it like a it's like a slow decay of their life

541
00:48:09,816 --> 00:48:17,676
everything just gets a little bit worse all the time and for me that just there's a privilege

542
00:48:17,676 --> 00:48:22,016
that comes with it because if you recognize it you can put in place the things to protect yourself

543
00:48:22,016 --> 00:48:27,436
and your family but there's a burden that comes with it like we should be telling everybody about

544
00:48:27,436 --> 00:48:33,976
this and helping them escape from this and we should be holding um our political leaders

545
00:48:33,976 --> 00:48:39,176
accountable i was in the coffee shop this morning when i say i was writing i was writing an article

546
00:48:39,176 --> 00:48:47,576
called the age of confiscation and i stole the title from some reply somebody put to a tweet

547
00:48:47,576 --> 00:48:53,276
this morning from bellagy about what's happening the like failure of keynesianism and i think back

548
00:48:53,276 --> 00:48:59,336
to Bastiat's law and what he said with regards to legal plunder. When the state goes from defending

549
00:48:59,336 --> 00:49:08,836
property to distribution of property, you invert the morality. So I think the story of decay is a

550
00:49:08,836 --> 00:49:15,136
story of the decay of the financial systems of this world, which is decaying everything else.

551
00:49:16,396 --> 00:49:21,596
And my lesson from that is that we collectively are cowards to allow this to happen.

552
00:49:21,596 --> 00:49:30,256
we're cowards because we vote for narrative i say we i don't think a lot of people really

553
00:49:30,256 --> 00:49:35,196
truly understand what's happening how they can stop it i think if people really understood

554
00:49:35,196 --> 00:49:39,636
why the role of the government should be the defense of life liberty

555
00:49:39,636 --> 00:49:43,116
and pursued happiness and defense of property

556
00:49:43,116 --> 00:49:52,296
because if you don't defend that you will ultimately lead to the destruction of a society

557
00:49:52,296 --> 00:49:59,356
collapse of currencies collapse of social order i think people will see short term and think well

558
00:49:59,356 --> 00:50:03,116
it's not great but if i just vote for that party that one's going to fix it and they don't realize

559
00:50:03,116 --> 00:50:12,496
it it is a feature not a bug it is how the system of incentives works and i feel a burden

560
00:50:12,496 --> 00:50:19,096
to try and do whatever I can to teach people about this and influence change.

561
00:50:19,096 --> 00:50:25,056
Me too. But do you think you can help people that are not ready to listen?

562
00:50:25,916 --> 00:50:32,696
You can try. You can just try. Sometimes people have to feel it. Argentina had to go through

563
00:50:32,696 --> 00:50:38,696
decades of inflation and hyperinflation before they got Malay, before they were willing to go,

564
00:50:38,696 --> 00:50:40,656
I just cannot take this anymore.

565
00:50:41,136 --> 00:50:42,216
Give me something else.

566
00:50:42,276 --> 00:50:43,736
And Malay came with something else.

567
00:50:44,236 --> 00:50:46,436
The only other answer is to become political,

568
00:50:46,436 --> 00:50:49,756
but I don't want to be part of a political party who won't fix this.

569
00:50:49,836 --> 00:50:50,776
And this is why I don't vote.

570
00:50:50,856 --> 00:50:51,396
And I won't vote.

571
00:50:51,496 --> 00:50:52,716
I say to everyone, I'm not voting.

572
00:50:52,776 --> 00:50:56,696
I'm not voting in the next election because I refuse to vote for decay.

573
00:50:56,916 --> 00:50:59,016
That's why I always say I refuse to vote for decay.

574
00:50:59,156 --> 00:51:01,116
And all we're offered right now is decay

575
00:51:01,116 --> 00:51:06,176
because no one wants to change the mechanics of the system

576
00:51:06,176 --> 00:51:13,696
that is designed to extract upwards to make the rich richer off the poorest middle class.

577
00:51:14,416 --> 00:51:15,536
Can you work with your enemies?

578
00:51:16,556 --> 00:51:18,896
Enemies? I don't know if I have enemies anymore.

579
00:51:19,116 --> 00:51:21,016
I can't think of a couple.

580
00:51:21,616 --> 00:51:24,636
Yeah, but who would it be and what's the scenario?

581
00:51:24,956 --> 00:51:26,756
People would say Craig Wright is my enemy.

582
00:51:27,176 --> 00:51:28,536
But if somebody came to me and said,

583
00:51:28,536 --> 00:51:31,476
look, we want to make a film about what happened between you and Craig Wright,

584
00:51:31,916 --> 00:51:32,976
would you work with Craig on that?

585
00:51:33,056 --> 00:51:33,196
Sure.

586
00:51:33,196 --> 00:51:41,756
if my enemy is the government and they offer me a job within the government and i want to do it

587
00:51:41,756 --> 00:51:48,916
say it's say i'm offered bitcoin head of bitcoin for the uk government and the government is my

588
00:51:48,916 --> 00:51:55,156
enemy because i detest the government would i work with them well if i was given free reign to create

589
00:51:55,156 --> 00:52:00,736
the policy i thought were correct then fine but if i had to compromise myself in a way which was

590
00:52:00,736 --> 00:52:07,236
net negative for society and no i couldn't work with them so i can't i can forget and forgive

591
00:52:07,236 --> 00:52:14,416
almost anything i don't need to hold on to grudges and if one of my enemies still is an enemy and

592
00:52:14,416 --> 00:52:18,456
they want to work with me and the output is something that is net good then i would do it

593
00:52:18,456 --> 00:52:23,356
i wouldn't work with them to do something that's net negative but i wouldn't work with a friend to

594
00:52:23,356 --> 00:52:28,336
do something negative so i don't really i don't really think about enemies and if i have enemies

595
00:52:28,336 --> 00:52:34,216
I'm always happy, have a beer, shake hands, say, what's the issue?

596
00:52:34,316 --> 00:52:35,076
Should we figure it out?

597
00:52:35,396 --> 00:52:35,576
Yeah.

598
00:52:35,716 --> 00:52:38,036
Because, I don't know, there's too much conflict at the moment.

599
00:52:38,636 --> 00:52:39,656
Do you worry a lot?

600
00:52:40,696 --> 00:52:41,116
Yes.

601
00:52:42,336 --> 00:52:46,016
But not to the point of it damaging my life.

602
00:52:46,816 --> 00:52:50,076
More, I would say worry is the wrong term.

603
00:52:50,216 --> 00:52:56,676
I think about the bad things that might happen and what can be done about it.

604
00:52:56,676 --> 00:53:00,296
I think if you worry too much

605
00:53:00,296 --> 00:53:02,076
You can end up in paralysis

606
00:53:02,076 --> 00:53:03,816
And not be able to do anything about it

607
00:53:03,816 --> 00:53:06,276
I mean I worry about

608
00:53:06,276 --> 00:53:07,856
The future for my kids

609
00:53:07,856 --> 00:53:09,856
And I fear God

610
00:53:09,856 --> 00:53:12,796
Probably more than I believe in him

611
00:53:12,796 --> 00:53:14,676
Why do you fear him?

612
00:53:14,976 --> 00:53:16,376
Because if there is

613
00:53:16,376 --> 00:53:18,456
I fear

614
00:53:18,456 --> 00:53:19,896
His judgement

615
00:53:19,896 --> 00:53:22,856
Because perhaps I haven't

616
00:53:22,856 --> 00:53:24,656
Lived my life

617
00:53:24,656 --> 00:53:26,056
In the best way

618
00:53:26,676 --> 00:53:27,376
Does that make sense?

619
00:53:27,476 --> 00:53:28,556
Yeah, it does make sense.

620
00:53:29,156 --> 00:53:31,636
What does the perfect Friday night look like for you?

621
00:53:32,636 --> 00:53:35,196
Perfect Friday night for me would be,

622
00:53:35,476 --> 00:53:38,936
I would pick up my daughter and her boyfriend from school.

623
00:53:40,676 --> 00:53:41,756
I'd go home.

624
00:53:42,316 --> 00:53:43,936
That would be about four o'clock.

625
00:53:44,296 --> 00:53:48,576
We'd probably book somewhere nice for dinner, somewhere locally,

626
00:53:48,576 --> 00:53:51,576
maybe a little Terezza, my friend Naz's restaurant.

627
00:53:52,856 --> 00:53:55,456
We'd head down there, we'd have dinner as a family.

628
00:53:55,456 --> 00:53:58,096
I'd have a couple of old fashions

629
00:53:58,096 --> 00:54:01,996
we'd have a good couple of hours together

630
00:54:01,996 --> 00:54:03,576
and then we would go home

631
00:54:03,576 --> 00:54:06,296
and find a good film to watch

632
00:54:06,296 --> 00:54:07,856
and fall asleep on the couch

633
00:54:07,856 --> 00:54:09,576
that's a good Friday night for me

634
00:54:09,576 --> 00:54:13,876
what's something you still haven't forgiven yourself for?

635
00:54:15,216 --> 00:54:17,196
this really does make sense now

636
00:54:17,196 --> 00:54:19,416
I don't think there is anything

637
00:54:19,416 --> 00:54:21,056
yeah

638
00:54:21,056 --> 00:54:25,196
because you know when you ask me about working with my enemies

639
00:54:25,196 --> 00:54:26,296
I said, I don't really have enemies.

640
00:54:26,416 --> 00:54:27,536
I'm willing to make up with anyone.

641
00:54:28,396 --> 00:54:31,116
I think you have to do that with yourself first.

642
00:54:31,816 --> 00:54:34,116
If you don't forgive yourself, you're living in the past

643
00:54:34,116 --> 00:54:35,956
and you're allowing depression to come into your life.

644
00:54:35,976 --> 00:54:37,196
And I've had depression.

645
00:54:37,336 --> 00:54:38,176
I don't want that back.

646
00:54:38,236 --> 00:54:39,036
It was a long time ago.

647
00:54:39,176 --> 00:54:40,356
It was hard to beat it.

648
00:54:41,656 --> 00:54:42,396
But I did.

649
00:54:42,696 --> 00:54:46,316
I regret things, but I can forgive myself for everything.

650
00:54:46,756 --> 00:54:51,316
My forgiveness comes through just trying to make amends for things, for people.

651
00:54:52,136 --> 00:54:54,336
I don't have anything I'm forgiving myself for.

652
00:54:54,776 --> 00:54:55,216
Great.

653
00:54:55,976 --> 00:54:57,836
You've caught me a really funny time in my life.

654
00:54:58,836 --> 00:55:00,676
This interview was two years ago.

655
00:55:00,756 --> 00:55:01,236
It'd be so different.

656
00:55:01,316 --> 00:55:02,596
It'd be all my ego out there.

657
00:55:03,076 --> 00:55:03,856
So thanks, Pete.

658
00:55:03,976 --> 00:55:05,716
Those were my 21 takes on you.

659
00:55:05,836 --> 00:55:06,076
Okay.

660
00:55:06,196 --> 00:55:06,656
Next up.

661
00:55:06,916 --> 00:55:09,356
I followed you since before what Bitcoin did.

662
00:55:09,596 --> 00:55:09,956
Before?

663
00:55:10,396 --> 00:55:10,596
Yeah.

664
00:55:10,776 --> 00:55:13,976
Back when you were like a trader with an attitude.

665
00:55:15,576 --> 00:55:19,616
I still remember that beach video in Thailand,

666
00:55:20,136 --> 00:55:21,396
phone in selfie mode,

667
00:55:21,636 --> 00:55:23,456
like the beach behind you.

668
00:55:23,456 --> 00:55:27,876
What was the most naive thing you actually believed back then?

669
00:55:28,776 --> 00:55:29,356
Oh, God.

670
00:55:29,556 --> 00:55:33,656
I mean, that government was good and necessary.

671
00:55:34,496 --> 00:55:37,496
I've micro-dosed on red pills since.

672
00:55:38,336 --> 00:55:45,536
And it's taken a lot longer than people hoped it would for me to be fully red-pilled,

673
00:55:46,156 --> 00:55:48,036
and then orange-pilled, and then black-pilled.

674
00:55:48,496 --> 00:55:52,436
But I believed government was necessary.

675
00:55:52,956 --> 00:55:53,496
I don't know.

676
00:55:53,616 --> 00:55:57,676
I believe it's inevitable just because of the way power works

677
00:55:57,676 --> 00:56:00,276
and the way humans organize themselves, but I don't think it's necessary.

678
00:56:01,376 --> 00:56:05,716
And I believed government operated with good intentions

679
00:56:05,716 --> 00:56:09,196
because I believe politicians had good intentions, which is so naive

680
00:56:09,196 --> 00:56:13,156
because you can have politicians with all the best intentions in the world.

681
00:56:13,276 --> 00:56:17,856
The incentives of the system are such that the road to hell is paved

682
00:56:17,856 --> 00:56:19,496
in those good intentions.

683
00:56:20,196 --> 00:56:20,236
Yeah.

684
00:56:20,236 --> 00:56:28,656
from beachside trader to podcast skin what would that guy mock you for if he saw you now

685
00:56:28,656 --> 00:56:38,156
god these are such good questions what would he mock me for now um probably call me a bit of a

686
00:56:38,156 --> 00:56:45,236
pussy say you've got soft come on man you're gonna take on the world you're gonna be famous

687
00:56:45,236 --> 00:56:53,116
and rich what are you doing i think you're mocking me for that in 2018 i read reread and

688
00:56:53,116 --> 00:56:58,976
bootmarked that thread of yours about the i know what you're about to tell me but i made and lost

689
00:56:58,976 --> 00:57:07,116
all the money about the 2017 bull run and everything that came after i call it your best of times

690
00:57:07,116 --> 00:57:13,476
worst of times thread you hit seven figures for the first time and for the first time you flew

691
00:57:13,476 --> 00:57:21,496
first class you bought a good watch some great clothes and you told us for the next cycle buy

692
00:57:21,496 --> 00:57:27,536
some good experiences and nice things because those would be the only souvenirs left after the

693
00:57:27,536 --> 00:57:33,736
crash your mom died you overdosed what made you share all of that pain so openly

694
00:57:33,736 --> 00:57:40,036
oh i don't know i don't know why i shared it probably

695
00:57:40,036 --> 00:57:49,336
did you write that thread for us or for yourself probably both probably both i mean it's hard to

696
00:57:49,336 --> 00:57:55,196
really remember the intentions at the time yeah um i tend to write when i have thoughts and i just

697
00:57:55,196 --> 00:58:01,196
tend to write whether it's a thread a tweet or an article i think you said something like you went

698
00:58:01,196 --> 00:58:08,676
from around 120 to 80 bitcoin um buying shit coins before realizing what you were doing slightly

699
00:58:08,676 --> 00:58:17,356
different so what happened was i um so this was after the year of running yeah and so it was just

700
00:58:17,356 --> 00:58:23,376
before my mum died so just about i don't know nine years ago that would have been to start of 2017

701
00:58:23,376 --> 00:58:32,316
i had about 35 000 pound left uh and and then i would then i'd be cooked that's it all i had my

702
00:58:32,316 --> 00:58:37,636
advertising agency had failed my marriage had collapsed my mum was dying all of that stuff and

703
00:58:37,636 --> 00:58:44,936
and I've been coming off the drugs. So I bought something like seven Bitcoin and then a load of

704
00:58:44,936 --> 00:58:51,616
ETH and then loads of shit coins. And then 2017, I just traded through that whole year and I peaked

705
00:58:51,616 --> 00:58:57,176
up. I don't know. It was, I used to have this spreadsheet where at every shit coin, it's value

706
00:58:57,176 --> 00:59:05,556
in pounds, dollars and Bitcoin. And it was about 186 Bitcoin, which I wish I had now. And, uh,

707
00:59:05,556 --> 00:59:12,516
I think it peaked over a million. So 1.2, 1.3 million. And I was like, this is amazing. I'm a

708
00:59:12,516 --> 00:59:17,296
genius. When really it's just like anything you bought would go up. That was it. You go to bed,

709
00:59:17,336 --> 00:59:20,916
you wake up. It's like, I made another 50 grand. I'm such a genius. You weren't a genius.

710
00:59:21,896 --> 00:59:25,756
And I remember I took the kids to a place called Center Parks at Christmas and my dad came

711
00:59:25,756 --> 00:59:31,616
and my dad was saying, look, sell some of those and buy some property, anchor it in. I was like,

712
00:59:31,656 --> 00:59:34,976
yeah, yeah, no, I'll do that. And I was sitting there on my laptop. My daughter came running

713
00:59:34,976 --> 00:59:40,996
over at a glass of wine she knocked it over she was only four and it fried my laptop i was like

714
00:59:40,996 --> 00:59:45,116
i'll do it when i get back and anyway we get back in january and there was that big crash

715
00:59:45,116 --> 00:59:50,336
and then eventually the i had to sell some bitcoin all the shit coins went to

716
00:59:50,336 --> 00:59:56,436
and then i had to pay my tax i had to sell some bitcoin and i think i ended up with about 18

717
00:59:56,436 --> 01:00:02,236
bitcoin or something at that point no other money and my net worth was like under 60 grand

718
01:00:02,236 --> 01:00:11,256
and I was like I've gone from 35 to there back to 60 but you know what's so weird there was no

719
01:00:11,256 --> 01:00:18,636
I never had like I never felt bad about losing the money there was no part of me that was like

720
01:00:18,636 --> 01:00:23,256
oh my god I've lost all this money this is awful because I don't think it ever felt real like I

721
01:00:23,256 --> 01:00:28,436
bought the watch I bought a car I flew business class I was having a great time I can't explain

722
01:00:28,436 --> 01:00:34,396
it but there was never like a i think some people when they lose a lot of money it can really affect

723
01:00:34,396 --> 01:00:38,276
them i think some people take their lives well we know they do i mean the big crypto crash recently

724
01:00:38,276 --> 01:00:44,036
i don't know i just like all right so be it yeah i'll make it again that's what you said yeah i'll

725
01:00:44,036 --> 01:00:49,836
make it again and i started the podcast back in i'd done my first interview in november 2017 and

726
01:00:49,836 --> 01:00:55,836
so i'll just do the podcast and yeah i mean if i think back to the thread because the thread just

727
01:00:55,836 --> 01:01:02,956
blew up yeah it was really personal yeah but i think it was useful because i clearly wasn't the

728
01:01:02,956 --> 01:01:08,216
only one i mean every not everyone but like the vast majority of people wrote it up and then wrote

729
01:01:08,216 --> 01:01:14,396
it down and i think sometimes when you write something like that you are given a gift to

730
01:01:14,396 --> 01:01:19,576
other people to go i'm not the only one this has happened but yeah i i can't really remember the

731
01:01:19,576 --> 01:01:25,276
intentions it was funny the best of times the worst of times it's always called isn't that um

732
01:01:25,276 --> 01:01:30,596
best of times the worst is that dickens yeah chance yeah is there anything you wish you had

733
01:01:30,596 --> 01:01:37,276
included or something you wish you hadn't yeah so overdose is is the probably the wrong word to use

734
01:01:37,276 --> 01:01:41,596
i had something called an svt maybe at the time i thought i had but what i triggered is something

735
01:01:41,596 --> 01:01:46,356
called an svt i was probably just being dramatic uh i triggered something called an svt it's where

736
01:01:46,356 --> 01:01:51,536
the electrical pulses in your heart uh just start firing so my heart rate went up to 200

737
01:01:51,536 --> 01:01:56,896
beats per minute and then ended up in hospital and got a teleno for a doctor.

738
01:01:58,176 --> 01:02:03,316
And then I had multiple SVTs over the next few months and that's why I had to deal with

739
01:02:03,316 --> 01:02:04,636
all the mental health issues.

740
01:02:05,256 --> 01:02:10,336
What did you learn about people and about yourself during those hardest days?

741
01:02:15,116 --> 01:02:16,876
Drug addiction sucks.

742
01:02:16,876 --> 01:02:21,996
I know what rock bottom is like.

743
01:02:21,996 --> 01:02:38,274
I remember the moment where I knew I was at rock bottom It a really strange experience I remember one evening i was at home on my own called up my dealer got some coke i was drinking and i used to just sit there and do coke all night

744
01:02:38,274 --> 01:02:46,594
on my own night after night like a loser and i remember one night i was doing the coke and

745
01:02:47,154 --> 01:02:52,914
when you do cocaine you have a buzz so you say you're here you go up here and when you come down

746
01:02:52,914 --> 01:02:57,974
you go below there right and there's like this agitated horrible feelings you do another line

747
01:02:57,974 --> 01:03:03,554
you get above and above it was the only time i ever had it where i did cocaine i never got above

748
01:03:03,554 --> 01:03:07,974
the line i only felt crap and every time i did a line i just got back to normal and i was like i

749
01:03:07,974 --> 01:03:14,314
don't even feel high i feel shit i feel terrible i feel shit and i was like and then i was got in

750
01:03:14,314 --> 01:03:18,534
the shower trying to calm myself down try to get into bed to sleep but my heart was racing

751
01:03:18,534 --> 01:03:23,534
and I was like this is awful I didn't know I was going to get through the night

752
01:03:23,534 --> 01:03:30,034
it was definitely one of those ones I thought is this is this how someone dies I remember

753
01:03:30,034 --> 01:03:34,534
laying there thinking is this how someone dies like someone's just going to find my body tomorrow

754
01:03:34,534 --> 01:03:40,514
and some cocaine residue and I'm just some loser who died doing cocaine on his own

755
01:03:40,514 --> 01:03:52,914
um so i can reflect upon that time and what a pathetic loser i'd become um terrible person

756
01:03:52,914 --> 01:03:59,494
um yeah i there's a lot of they talk about with addiction a lot of there's a lot of shame

757
01:03:59,494 --> 01:04:06,134
there are stories i will never tell that i know of which are very shameful

758
01:04:06,134 --> 01:04:11,574
about my behavior that time as an addict it's funny because i've been watching this dope sick

759
01:04:11,574 --> 01:04:25,014
series about the opioid crisis and you see certain behaviors of yourself in that and i'm so glad i

760
01:04:25,014 --> 01:04:30,914
got away from it all but it could have gone it could have really got bad like a lot worse than

761
01:04:30,914 --> 01:04:37,754
it did because when you're an addict you're very selfish you're not really thinking about you're

762
01:04:37,754 --> 01:04:43,454
just thinking about yourself and i would go to work get through the day go home get high it's

763
01:04:43,454 --> 01:04:50,754
just this cycle of crap but i can't honestly tell you what i learned about other people during that

764
01:04:50,754 --> 01:04:55,734
period because that period was just about me being a loser people are willing to help but but the

765
01:04:55,734 --> 01:05:00,314
other thing is people have got their own shit going on as well you know i haven't talked about

766
01:05:00,314 --> 01:05:07,694
this for a long time and it feels almost doesn't feel real because it was so long ago yeah my life's

767
01:05:07,694 --> 01:05:13,154
so different now like I haven't done drugs in I can't even remember years and years and years

768
01:05:13,154 --> 01:05:20,854
uh and I used to be an animal for drugs for cocaine and I just even the thought of it just

769
01:05:20,854 --> 01:05:28,634
just I just like think it's gross and so I don't recognize that anymore but it was just a very

770
01:05:28,634 --> 01:05:38,414
it was there was a two-year period which was truly awful maybe longer 2014 to yeah no 2014

771
01:05:38,414 --> 01:05:46,354
2016 it was just dreadful um i know people were there for me of course they were family friends

772
01:05:46,354 --> 01:05:51,774
but also sometimes they just they have to give up on you like i've had to give up on some people

773
01:05:51,774 --> 01:05:57,174
who just cannot be helped you kind of have to go and find it yourself this episode is brought to you

774
01:05:57,174 --> 01:06:02,674
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775
01:06:02,674 --> 01:06:08,514
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778
01:06:22,054 --> 01:06:23,754
Could you tell me a story about your mom?

779
01:06:23,754 --> 01:06:35,114
hmm when we were kids my mom my mom's incredible woman when when we were kids she wanted to teach

780
01:06:35,114 --> 01:06:42,514
us to swim um and she didn't have a car my dad had the car to go to work and we used to live

781
01:06:42,514 --> 01:06:46,554
in kempston down the road and swim pool was up here so it's a good two three miles away

782
01:06:46,554 --> 01:06:51,974
and she used to take us every saturday swimming i would be on the little basket on the back

783
01:06:51,974 --> 01:06:57,174
my sister was sat on my front and my brother on a little bike next to him she used to take us all

784
01:06:57,174 --> 01:07:03,554
the way there teach us to swim because she insisted on us learn to swim and take us all the way back

785
01:07:03,554 --> 01:07:08,454
and at the time you don't think about it now at the time you don't think about it but right now

786
01:07:08,454 --> 01:07:12,274
you think about it it's like if i take my kids to swim we get in our ranger over and we would

787
01:07:12,274 --> 01:07:19,174
drive to the pool there was a different kind of hardship then when we'd go shopping my mum had a

788
01:07:19,174 --> 01:07:24,614
budget and that was it it was 50 pounds it was 50 pounds she filled the trolley she said that's done

789
01:07:24,614 --> 01:07:33,154
we'll go home when we go we just get what we want and buy it my mum just she just always just got on

790
01:07:33,154 --> 01:07:39,214
with things she didn't complain she didn't expect anything she didn't want anything she wanted time

791
01:07:39,214 --> 01:07:44,434
with my dad actually i will tell you a funny story about my mum she didn't have a filter

792
01:07:44,434 --> 01:07:52,474
okay that was our only problem big problem my dad tells me at this time they were on a cruise

793
01:07:52,474 --> 01:08:00,634
yeah because my my my dad's aircraft engineer won't fly figure that and um my mom wanted to

794
01:08:00,634 --> 01:08:06,294
see the world when they retired so they did two world cruises and when you go to dinner apparently

795
01:08:06,294 --> 01:08:09,234
i've not been on one but you go to dinner it's the same people every night you get to know them

796
01:08:09,234 --> 01:08:10,774
Anyway, they got there this first night.

797
01:08:11,474 --> 01:08:16,114
My dad says, the couple next to them, the wife was a big woman.

798
01:08:17,814 --> 01:08:23,534
And apparently as they sat down to eat, this big woman started talking to my mum.

799
01:08:23,734 --> 01:08:28,354
She said to my mum, she said, oh, yeah, this cruise is going to be difficult

800
01:08:28,354 --> 01:08:33,254
because, you know, I've been on a diet and I've lost a lot of weight.

801
01:08:33,414 --> 01:08:36,734
And my mum turned around to her and said, well, how big were you?

802
01:08:39,234 --> 01:08:42,294
And that's the kind of thing my mum would say because she just didn't understand.

803
01:08:43,714 --> 01:08:45,154
She didn't have a filter.

804
01:08:45,994 --> 01:08:48,334
That's why dad's like dying inside.

805
01:08:49,974 --> 01:08:52,314
But yeah, she just got on with life.

806
01:08:53,714 --> 01:08:56,514
After she died, I went down to the hospital where she worked.

807
01:08:56,514 --> 01:08:57,614
She worked in the children's ward.

808
01:08:58,634 --> 01:08:59,774
And I offered to volunteer.

809
01:09:00,134 --> 01:09:00,874
I don't know why.

810
01:09:00,934 --> 01:09:02,294
I just felt like I needed to do it.

811
01:09:02,434 --> 01:09:06,814
So I volunteered in the hospital for three months, going two, three times a week,

812
01:09:06,814 --> 01:09:12,694
and just play with the kids or get the parents cups of tea and stuff i remember i was there one

813
01:09:12,694 --> 01:09:16,754
time one of the nurses said come on let me show you something she took me to the back room which

814
01:09:16,754 --> 01:09:23,294
is where the for the families of the parents and she said oh we wanted to redecorate this room but

815
01:09:23,294 --> 01:09:27,994
we didn't have any money and so your mum just came in one weekend and did it and it was like it was

816
01:09:27,994 --> 01:09:31,414
all painting there was like a stencil around the top and said yeah your mum just went around and

817
01:09:31,414 --> 01:09:35,794
stenciled this all around the top that's just typical mum most people would just be like oh

818
01:09:35,794 --> 01:09:39,454
there's no budget i'm not doing it my mom was like okay she went and got some paint and just did it

819
01:09:39,454 --> 01:09:44,994
that's that's who she was yeah what are the non-negotiables in your life today what won't

820
01:09:44,994 --> 01:09:53,794
you compromise anymore oh what non-negotiable i mean outside of the obvious ones like which we

821
01:09:53,794 --> 01:10:01,494
would all have i listened to a podcast recently chris williamson and naval and naval was saying

822
01:10:01,494 --> 01:10:06,754
if he doesn't want to reply to an email he doesn't anymore it's like you've come into my space

823
01:10:06,754 --> 01:10:12,774
I just don't have to reply and so when I go through my emails I get a lot of requests especially

824
01:10:12,774 --> 01:10:19,074
locally I just delete stuff now it's just like I don't I don't need to reply to this I don't owe

825
01:10:19,074 --> 01:10:24,694
your reply I don't owe you an apology for not being able to help with whatever it is you need

826
01:10:24,694 --> 01:10:30,154
So I guess my non-negotiable right now is my time.

827
01:10:31,274 --> 01:10:34,694
Like, there's two scarce things in life, time and Bitcoin.

828
01:10:35,294 --> 01:10:36,214
In that order.

829
01:10:36,534 --> 01:10:37,194
In that order.

830
01:10:37,494 --> 01:10:44,554
But there's a Chinese adage, which is an inch of time is worth an inch of gold.

831
01:10:45,394 --> 01:10:47,994
An inch of gold cannot buy an inch of time.

832
01:10:48,354 --> 01:10:51,154
Like, I heard that years ago, and I think about it a lot.

833
01:10:51,154 --> 01:10:55,474
and I think about it in context of somebody like Steve Jobs

834
01:10:55,474 --> 01:10:58,674
richest guy in the world gets cancer

835
01:10:58,674 --> 01:11:01,874
he has a ticking time clock there

836
01:11:01,874 --> 01:11:03,274
he had all the money in the world

837
01:11:03,274 --> 01:11:06,474
it did not matter his cancer could not be cured

838
01:11:06,474 --> 01:11:11,114
and so if time is so valuable

839
01:11:11,114 --> 01:11:14,014
but you cannot buy more time

840
01:11:14,014 --> 01:11:19,214
you should really treasure every minute of every day

841
01:11:19,214 --> 01:11:28,414
so so i try now to only do the things i want you sent me a lovely email i was like i'm doing this

842
01:11:28,414 --> 01:11:33,774
you want to come to my town all the way here of course i want to give you this time and and

843
01:11:33,774 --> 01:11:37,954
i'm even more glad i've done it now we've done even though this is going to be so embarrassing

844
01:11:37,954 --> 01:11:43,854
people could take make fun of me if i'm i'm like really glad i did it this is quite therapeutic and

845
01:11:43,854 --> 01:11:45,334
It's a lovely conversation.

846
01:11:46,294 --> 01:11:49,974
And I'm not entirely there, but my non-negotiable,

847
01:11:50,594 --> 01:11:55,474
my only ambition left is to have every minute of every day non-negotiable.

848
01:11:55,734 --> 01:11:58,634
I still have to commit to things I don't want to do because, you know, commitments.

849
01:11:59,294 --> 01:12:03,754
But I want to get rid of all those commitments and make my time my non-negotiable.

850
01:12:04,434 --> 01:12:05,254
Sounds great.

851
01:12:05,474 --> 01:12:05,634
Yeah.

852
01:12:06,354 --> 01:12:08,454
How good are you at admitting when you're wrong?

853
01:12:10,634 --> 01:12:11,814
I'm a lot better now.

854
01:12:11,814 --> 01:12:18,434
I think of pretty much this is what this has been about um I actually think admitting you're wrong

855
01:12:18,434 --> 01:12:27,334
is a superpower it's a real superpower because you completely disarm somebody when somebody comes

856
01:12:27,334 --> 01:12:33,714
at you I go yeah I was wrong he can't get an argument from me it's like well where do you

857
01:12:33,714 --> 01:12:40,274
want to go from here I was wrong I did it wrong I'm sorry he either has to like go okay

858
01:12:40,274 --> 01:12:45,794
well do you want a beer or he has to find something else to be angry at me about

859
01:12:45,794 --> 01:12:53,234
and so i think admitting you're wrong is a superpower it comes along with ego death

860
01:12:53,234 --> 01:13:02,274
and kind of like a stoic approach to life that you cannot let anyone they can throw barbs at you

861
01:13:02,274 --> 01:13:08,674
and they just they can't stick onto you and it's a real superpower it comes with that kind of living

862
01:13:08,674 --> 01:13:13,774
in the present but i also think if you are certain you're right you should defend your position

863
01:13:13,774 --> 01:13:20,554
but it's really good to start from a point is could i be wrong like could i be wrong in this

864
01:13:20,554 --> 01:13:27,654
scenario and so like with general life stuff i try and i try and be better at admitting i'm wrong

865
01:13:27,654 --> 01:13:33,034
i'm actually really bad at it with my son my son that's a weird thing you go through like my son's

866
01:13:33,034 --> 01:13:39,874
like in his 20s now and he is much better at reading parts of life than i am and he comes to

867
01:13:39,874 --> 01:13:46,214
me as a dad like he calls me out and i'm like and i have to i've had to get a lot better at

868
01:13:46,214 --> 01:13:50,634
recognizing that you know he's right he's he calls me out my bullshit and he's right

869
01:13:50,634 --> 01:13:55,794
and i've had to become better at that but generally speaking with life stuff i think i'm a lot better

870
01:13:55,794 --> 01:14:01,734
at it when it's like i don't know economic political arguments on twitter i i don't know

871
01:14:01,734 --> 01:14:07,634
if I'm as good at admitting I'm wrong or questioning whether I could be wrong. But I would say to most

872
01:14:07,634 --> 01:14:14,954
people, most of us are wrong about a lot of stuff all the time. Try admitting it. It's a superpower.

873
01:14:15,874 --> 01:14:21,234
Looking back, would you agree that some of your sponsors turn out to be bad actors

874
01:14:21,234 --> 01:14:26,554
and that people who trusted you might have lost money because of it?

875
01:14:27,214 --> 01:14:29,554
Yeah, good questions because I've got a lot of criticism from this.

876
01:14:29,554 --> 01:14:36,294
so I never took a sponsorship where I thought they were a bad actor or it was a bad product

877
01:14:36,294 --> 01:14:43,014
BlockFi was my most known one John Carvalho warned me early on I was like you're wrong

878
01:14:43,014 --> 01:14:47,234
I had money in BlockFi I thought it was great I was getting my interest I was like what do you

879
01:14:47,234 --> 01:14:54,514
want about and then they raised I think they got to their e-round um I believed in it yeah there

880
01:14:54,514 --> 01:14:58,594
was this minor company I can't remember it was yeah I remember I can't remember their name but

881
01:14:58,594 --> 01:15:02,914
But they failed because of the CEO of the business.

882
01:15:03,634 --> 01:15:04,614
BlockFi could have continued.

883
01:15:04,754 --> 01:15:05,314
Look at Ledin.

884
01:15:05,414 --> 01:15:06,374
Ledin is doing great.

885
01:15:06,974 --> 01:15:13,014
BlockFi failed because of the way they generated their yield, which was quite opaque.

886
01:15:13,654 --> 01:15:15,194
But they were doing well for years.

887
01:15:15,434 --> 01:15:17,574
That mining company, again, failed because of their CEO.

888
01:15:17,874 --> 01:15:18,914
It was a good business.

889
01:15:19,074 --> 01:15:20,554
It failed because the CEO was useless.

890
01:15:20,554 --> 01:15:24,134
And in the Bitcoin world, we're in a niche community of products and things.

891
01:15:24,274 --> 01:15:25,594
But companies fail all the time.

892
01:15:26,094 --> 01:15:27,474
Products fail all the time.

893
01:15:27,474 --> 01:15:35,354
i never once accepted a sponsorship from a product i wouldn't use myself and so i use blockfi i use

894
01:15:35,354 --> 01:15:42,234
that mining company i bought five of their s19 pros i think it was the wallet i had that where

895
01:15:42,234 --> 01:15:48,634
the guy went to jail i i use that wallet but perhaps i didn't heed the warnings enough i think

896
01:15:48,634 --> 01:15:54,354
the main one's blockfi i didn't heed the warnings enough and yeah i got that wrong but i accept no

897
01:15:54,354 --> 01:16:03,734
responsibility for people who've lost money because we all have agency um and i think when

898
01:16:03,734 --> 01:16:10,214
you blame this a podcast host for selling an ad more than you blame the ceo of a company

899
01:16:10,214 --> 01:16:15,974
i mean i took way more shit than the ceos of these companies because i took an ad sponsorship

900
01:16:15,974 --> 01:16:22,734
from a legal company a regulated company so i always rejected that you have agency

901
01:16:22,734 --> 01:16:27,694
when you go and use a product you have a choice to research it yourself and say whether you want

902
01:16:27,694 --> 01:16:34,234
to use it you have agency you can look up the risks so no i i don't accept any responsibility

903
01:16:34,234 --> 01:16:39,894
because i don't want to take agency away from people it's true but but it doesn't mean i don't

904
01:16:39,894 --> 01:16:44,194
i'm sad about it i don't have regret if anyone who lost money on blockfi do you know the worst

905
01:16:44,194 --> 01:16:51,154
thing on blockfi was is that they pulled their sponsorship just a few months before

906
01:16:51,154 --> 01:16:58,434
they did the deal with Sam, what's his name, went to jail.

907
01:16:58,734 --> 01:16:59,074
Oh, yeah.

908
01:17:00,334 --> 01:17:01,494
Sam Bachman-Cred.

909
01:17:01,574 --> 01:17:01,774
Yeah.

910
01:17:01,994 --> 01:17:04,434
And so what happened was Ledham wanted to take over the sponsorship.

911
01:17:04,734 --> 01:17:06,674
So I was like, okay, so Ledham became the sponsor.

912
01:17:07,354 --> 01:17:10,654
So I moved my Bitcoin out of BlockFi and into Ledham.

913
01:17:11,074 --> 01:17:12,634
And then they went into administration.

914
01:17:13,534 --> 01:17:17,374
And from the outside world, it looks like, ah, inside knowledge, hey, Pete.

915
01:17:17,374 --> 01:17:19,414
Yeah, you moved yours out and didn't warn anyone.

916
01:17:19,414 --> 01:17:25,174
because people they default to assume the worst but no it was i always use the products of the

917
01:17:25,174 --> 01:17:30,294
companies i accept sponsorship from uh i met with zach they couldn't afford the sponsorship anymore

918
01:17:30,294 --> 01:17:35,214
they asked a poll i've spoken to mau at leden he said yeah i'd love to sponsor you so i just moved

919
01:17:35,214 --> 01:17:40,074
and then it turns out the deal with sam was a complete fraud for them to steal the remaining

920
01:17:40,074 --> 01:17:46,934
bitcoin and money and people got screwed but yeah i think it's really important to blame the people

921
01:17:46,934 --> 01:17:50,754
who were the architects of what went wrong,

922
01:17:50,954 --> 01:17:53,194
not the guy who was asked,

923
01:17:53,374 --> 01:17:54,254
can I advertise your product?

924
01:17:54,334 --> 01:17:55,434
Yeah, you can advertise my product.

925
01:17:56,394 --> 01:18:00,194
I think it's an unfair way people shift blame.

926
01:18:00,814 --> 01:18:03,174
What is the responsibility of a podcaster?

927
01:18:03,714 --> 01:18:10,274
Should I have known that BlockFi was going to go administration?

928
01:18:10,734 --> 01:18:14,314
Well, the knowledge I had from the company is,

929
01:18:14,314 --> 01:18:15,074
no, we're fine.

930
01:18:15,074 --> 01:18:20,094
uh now we're not fine we can't sponsor you oh now we've done a deal with sam we're going to be fine

931
01:18:20,094 --> 01:18:25,894
like i you have to you know i don't know i'm not i don't have access to their p&l or their

932
01:18:25,894 --> 01:18:31,614
cash flow i don't know i'm our relationship is can we have an ad yeah we can have an ad and

933
01:18:31,614 --> 01:18:39,054
here we'll pay your invoice so but it doesn't it does mean like people don't know about all the

934
01:18:39,054 --> 01:18:47,074
ads i rejected my god i've rejected in terms of value more ads than i've taken on yeah the shit

935
01:18:47,074 --> 01:18:52,394
coin sponsors the money those people have the deals i got offered seven figure deals for shit

936
01:18:52,394 --> 01:19:00,054
coins i could have made a fortune but i didn't because one i don't believe in shit coins and two

937
01:19:00,054 --> 01:19:05,534
they weren't right for the audience i took the ones i think will write but i rejected a lot i

938
01:19:05,534 --> 01:19:16,294
I remember you posted your first and second year numbers for what Bitcoin did until I think American HODL and a few others told you to stop sharing your finances.

939
01:19:16,754 --> 01:19:19,774
At the time, I thought that's Pete, your transparency.

940
01:19:20,094 --> 01:19:20,414
Yeah, transparent.

941
01:19:20,994 --> 01:19:23,934
I think it was a very big part of your success.

942
01:19:24,134 --> 01:19:26,534
I think the other part was really hard work.

943
01:19:26,534 --> 01:19:32,014
Well, I used to share the finances every month, the income, the outgoing, to be fully transparent.

944
01:19:32,814 --> 01:19:35,334
And when I started it, I wasn't really making any money.

945
01:19:35,534 --> 01:19:38,114
And then it got to the period where I was like, oh, this looks like good money.

946
01:19:38,434 --> 01:19:40,974
And American Hodel said, you've put a target on your back.

947
01:19:41,254 --> 01:19:42,394
Do you want some crazy numbers?

948
01:19:43,114 --> 01:19:57,494
So at its peak, when the podcast was seven people working on it, because it was me, Danny, Ben, my brother, my assistant, somebody else.

949
01:19:57,934 --> 01:20:01,954
And then we were traveling in the world as a team with a camera crew.

950
01:20:01,954 --> 01:20:10,154
it cost 1.5 million dollars to run the show yeah you mentioned that so you'd have to make more than

951
01:20:10,154 --> 01:20:18,254
1.5 million to make a profit at its peak its peak year it generated over 3 million in revenue

952
01:20:18,254 --> 01:20:24,834
so there was i mean with there was a couple of years where it did really well but the first year

953
01:20:24,834 --> 01:20:29,734
i ran it i lost money i didn't have a sponsor for the first year i lost money because i flew

954
01:20:29,734 --> 01:20:34,114
everywhere all at my own cost probably i don't know a couple hundred thousand dollars or a hundred

955
01:20:34,114 --> 01:20:40,474
thousand i can't remember the numbers we're talking nine years ago and then when i got my

956
01:20:40,474 --> 01:20:48,614
first sponsor i was nearly broke um my i was about to lose my house uh i needed renewing my mortgage

957
01:20:48,614 --> 01:20:54,894
i didn't have any money i did i did a job interview with i think kraken and another company in america

958
01:20:54,894 --> 01:20:58,234
and i turned them down and then i got a phone call i got offered a sponsorship contract

959
01:20:58,234 --> 01:21:04,214
and so and then it started making money but that year like it brought revenue in but again it didn't

960
01:21:04,214 --> 01:21:10,234
make a profit for i don't think it's first three years maybe then a little bit then some more then

961
01:21:10,234 --> 01:21:18,734
a couple years we did very well um but i was in a lawsuit with craig wright and so all those profits

962
01:21:18,734 --> 01:21:23,574
yeah well not all of them a lot of them went into paying the legal fees i got some support from some

963
01:21:23,574 --> 01:21:29,614
other people um and it was making good money at the point i decided not to do what bitcoin did

964
01:21:29,614 --> 01:21:34,414
anymore and so it's a complicated business model it's very hard to make money of it and you have

965
01:21:34,414 --> 01:21:42,294
to work very hard um yeah for a few years you trolled and got trolled heavily on twitter i

966
01:21:42,294 --> 01:21:48,434
still troll at one point it even sent you to the emergency room if i recall correctly is there

967
01:21:48,434 --> 01:21:55,294
anyone you genuinely regret going after i can regret general behavior but i don't know if i

968
01:21:55,294 --> 01:22:00,634
regret going after anyone i have like a weird relationship with twitter and then i

969
01:22:00,634 --> 01:22:06,134
each troll post it's like having a cigarette i don't smoke anymore but i remember when i

970
01:22:06,134 --> 01:22:10,654
wanted to stop smoking i still had the odd cigarette i didn't have the cigarette enjoy

971
01:22:10,654 --> 01:22:15,774
and then afterwards i'd feel dirty i feel like that with twitter sometimes like there's a pleasure

972
01:22:15,774 --> 01:22:22,734
in the moment of owning somebody um and then you feel dirty afterwards and i'm you have taken

973
01:22:22,734 --> 01:22:28,694
holy this yeah i have and i have these battles with it where i'm like just are you doing good

974
01:22:28,694 --> 01:22:34,754
you know it is what you're doing is the way you tweet at people sometimes i try and be more

975
01:22:34,754 --> 01:22:40,294
constructive i see a reply and try and give it like an intellectual answer to it and then other

976
01:22:40,294 --> 01:22:45,334
times i just call people a fucking moron and then afterwards i'm like oh why did you do that like

977
01:22:45,334 --> 01:22:50,994
what have you gained from this and how have you let people other people in the world perceive you

978
01:22:50,994 --> 01:22:59,634
uh i think my my twitter behaviors there's there's like a uh a gap between who i am in real life and

979
01:22:59,634 --> 01:23:05,034
who i am online but i think it's kind of the same i just don't think the britishness of how i tweet

980
01:23:05,034 --> 01:23:09,614
comes across it looks really hostile really i'm just it's the way i would talk to my mates in the

981
01:23:09,614 --> 01:23:14,614
Some people have come after me in a very nasty, threatening way before.

982
01:23:14,614 --> 01:23:16,614
I've had death threats.

983
01:23:16,614 --> 01:23:19,934
I had one guy troll me about my mother after she passed.

984
01:23:19,992 --> 01:23:28,012
the most dreadful way. And then, you know, if you start to do well, some people build their

985
01:23:28,012 --> 01:23:32,632
status on attacking you. And so you get reply guys who come after you. And I've been a reply

986
01:23:32,632 --> 01:23:37,052
guy as well. I'm never sure how healthy it really is. But I can't think of I've...

987
01:23:38,052 --> 01:23:42,132
I don't think I've gone after anyone in a malicious way. I don't think I've looked

988
01:23:42,132 --> 01:23:45,892
something like, I'm coming after you. Tell us how you experienced the COVID era

989
01:23:45,892 --> 01:23:48,632
and what made you rethink things?

990
01:23:49,652 --> 01:23:50,912
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question.

991
01:23:51,412 --> 01:23:53,032
I think that was my black pill moment.

992
01:23:53,592 --> 01:23:56,632
So when it first happened, I started making documentaries

993
01:23:56,632 --> 01:24:00,732
and there was like a news report in Turkey

994
01:24:00,732 --> 01:24:06,152
that Erdogan was sending refugees to the border with Greece

995
01:24:06,152 --> 01:24:09,032
because there's so many refugees in Turkey,

996
01:24:09,532 --> 01:24:12,932
so many immigrants because Turkey is the gateway to Europe.

997
01:24:13,872 --> 01:24:15,052
And Erdogan had enough of it.

998
01:24:15,052 --> 01:24:18,972
and I was like I think I need to go and see what this is so I phoned up a sponsor said I need to go

999
01:24:18,972 --> 01:24:23,052
can you give me 10 grand to go make a film they said yes and it looked like we were just about to

1000
01:24:23,052 --> 01:24:27,632
close down from COVID I was like I've got to go today so I booked the flight went out went out to

1001
01:24:27,632 --> 01:24:35,752
these refugee camps made the film and I came back into the first lockdown so and I think I got COVID

1002
01:24:35,752 --> 01:24:42,792
because I was so ill when I got back I was in such a terrible way it felt awful one of the most ill

1003
01:24:42,792 --> 01:24:47,452
I've ever felt but you can get tested they were only at that point testing people who'd been to

1004
01:24:47,452 --> 01:24:51,992
China or Italy because they were the two hot spots so I couldn't get tested so I got here when I got

1005
01:24:51,992 --> 01:24:57,172
better and then I had this second podcast called defiance I interviewed a doctor I know this friend

1006
01:24:57,172 --> 01:25:01,112
of mine I went to school with and he was telling a story and he got emotional he was crying during

1007
01:25:01,112 --> 01:25:08,072
it but he told this story of how they had some people come in with COVID it was a trickle and

1008
01:25:08,072 --> 01:25:12,272
then it was a flood and then they had to declare emergency and people couldn't breathe and they

1009
01:25:12,272 --> 01:25:17,912
were dying and so at the point the government announced their the lockdown i was fully supportive

1010
01:25:17,912 --> 01:25:23,632
i put this tweet that on reflection looks stupid i was like i support draconian measures you know

1011
01:25:23,632 --> 01:25:29,932
we need to stop the spread and blah blah blah i fell for the whole thing without thinking about

1012
01:25:29,932 --> 01:25:38,892
it critically and at the point when the uh vaccines came out i was like yeah give me that vaccine

1013
01:25:38,892 --> 01:25:45,112
absolutely didn't didn't think about it i even went when i get went to get the vaccine i thought

1014
01:25:45,112 --> 01:25:49,652
everyone was being ludicrous i mean every time i go on holiday i have vaccines and so i didn't

1015
01:25:49,652 --> 01:25:54,852
think much but i had i didn't have this like skepticism of the medical establishment because

1016
01:25:54,852 --> 01:26:04,072
the nhs is is a little bit different than profit-driven markets um and my mum wasn't there

1017
01:26:04,072 --> 01:26:08,952
so I went and got it and I was making fun of people who were scared of us I'm really scared

1018
01:26:08,952 --> 01:26:15,852
of it's just a vaccine and then what happened was after the first lockdown they wanted to do the

1019
01:26:15,852 --> 01:26:20,032
second lockdown I was like this is ridiculous this doesn't work the lockdowns haven't worked

1020
01:26:20,032 --> 01:26:23,732
what's going to happen is if you keep people locked down every time you open up

1021
01:26:23,732 --> 01:26:29,552
it's clearly going to spread again so you can't stop a virus and then I wanted to take my daughter

1022
01:26:29,552 --> 01:26:34,392
to New York for her birthday and I booked the flights the hotel and tickets to go and see Billie

1023
01:26:34,392 --> 01:26:39,792
Eilish at Madison Square Gardens because I think she liked her and we didn't have to get a vaccine

1024
01:26:39,792 --> 01:26:45,792
to travel because she was 11 and it was 12 that you acquired it but in New York she needed a

1025
01:26:45,792 --> 01:26:50,472
vaccine to get into Madison Square Gardens I was like there is I started looking into the vaccine

1026
01:26:50,472 --> 01:26:53,672
I was like there's no way she's getting this and then the information was coming out

1027
01:26:53,672 --> 01:27:02,072
and then uh then it just over a period of time i was like shit i got this all wrong i the whole

1028
01:27:02,072 --> 01:27:13,312
thing and it's not that i think government was malicious just malicious i think it was incompetence

1029
01:27:13,312 --> 01:27:19,832
lying and then malicious sections of both the government and the medical establishment

1030
01:27:19,832 --> 01:27:26,892
that enriched people through this it kind of became that moment i was like lifted the veil

1031
01:27:26,892 --> 01:27:31,332
and everything i was like yeah these people you just you cannot trust the individuals and you

1032
01:27:31,332 --> 01:27:38,852
cannot trust the system the incentives again are in such a way that it was only natural that the

1033
01:27:38,852 --> 01:27:43,692
medical companies would find a way of profiteering off this and now i have to live knowing i've had

1034
01:27:43,692 --> 01:27:50,612
this vaccine which i fully regret i'm so glad i didn't allow my daughter to have it but i'm very

1035
01:27:50,612 --> 01:27:58,392
glad that i didn't do it and then since then i've just i've had zero trust in government politicians

1036
01:27:58,392 --> 01:28:02,572
the mechanics of the state since and it's it's been a very painful thing to walk through because

1037
01:28:02,572 --> 01:28:08,312
even now i mean we're years down the line and i'll tweet about something and there'll be a reply and

1038
01:28:08,312 --> 01:28:13,932
a picture of me getting my vaccine or didn't you weren't you a COVID guy and I was like yeah I was

1039
01:28:13,932 --> 01:28:27,060
I got it wrong I apologize I made a mistake and to anyone I made fun of I sorry because I made a mistake it I owning my mistake but I can go and undo it so like if somebody wants to hate me for the rest of my life because

1040
01:28:27,060 --> 01:28:32,140
of that so be it that's their choice that's their life all I can do is recognize a mistake I made

1041
01:28:32,140 --> 01:28:38,680
and own it and apologize for it. But when I was making the podcast I think that's something people

1042
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:45,040
can't appreciate is that I didn't start the podcast as like a libertarian or an anarchist

1043
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:59,660
I started as just a normie, like a normie from Bedford who was getting over a drug addiction and a separation from his wife who discovered Bitcoin because of his drug addiction, not because he was against the Bank of England.

1044
01:28:59,660 --> 01:29:05,580
and just started a podcast and then lived in a bubble for years where I would go and meet

1045
01:29:05,580 --> 01:29:10,560
Danny and would get a hotel or an Airbnb and we'd make shows and I'd go home I wasn't really

1046
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:15,200
living in that place where I was like fully skeptical of the state and understanding the

1047
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:20,900
state what happened was after the podcast when I decided to no longer do what Bitcoin did and I

1048
01:29:20,900 --> 01:29:25,440
came back here to the UK and Bedford and to embed myself in the community and try to make change

1049
01:29:25,440 --> 01:29:28,620
that I just came up against obstacle after obstacle after obstacle

1050
01:29:28,620 --> 01:29:31,980
and then really started to understand the problems with the state.

1051
01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:33,440
But I lived in a bubble.

1052
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:38,480
And look, there's a lot of normies out there like me

1053
01:29:38,480 --> 01:29:40,260
who fell for all this shit.

1054
01:29:41,020 --> 01:29:44,860
And it's really sad that that happened, but it did.

1055
01:29:44,860 --> 01:29:45,820
Can't undo it.

1056
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:51,800
That's part of whatever my journey, the cringe term journey is.

1057
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:52,620
It's part of my journey.

1058
01:29:52,620 --> 01:29:59,320
what's the most important thing you've learned through osmosis on what bitcoin did from all the

1059
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:06,700
ogs it's not just via osmosis it's via direct experience but i've just learned that we have

1060
01:30:06,700 --> 01:30:13,960
a financial system that and a set of incentives that extracts money from the poorest and the

1061
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:23,220
middle class upwards. And that comes from a weakness in the political system in that we

1062
01:30:23,220 --> 01:30:27,320
aren't constitutionally protected from this. It goes back to what I said about Bastiat and the law

1063
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:34,260
in that the state's purpose is to defend life, liberty, property. And if it's the American

1064
01:30:34,260 --> 01:30:38,460
constitution and the pursuit of happiness, which is tied to those, that's their job.

1065
01:30:38,460 --> 01:30:42,560
to defend your life, your freedom, and your property.

1066
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:46,800
And the minute that government goes beyond that

1067
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:50,500
and becomes a mechanism for distribution, morality is inversed.

1068
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:56,560
And at that point, you will always have a uniparty

1069
01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:00,280
because the uniparty's job is to win the levers of power,

1070
01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:03,840
which is the levers of money creation, the levers of regulation,

1071
01:31:04,260 --> 01:31:07,940
and the levers of infringement upon all your rights.

1072
01:31:07,940 --> 01:31:13,220
which is essentially an infringement on life, liberty and property.

1073
01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:14,940
And so that's what I've learned.

1074
01:31:15,260 --> 01:31:19,080
And the only world I want to live in in the future

1075
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:22,440
is one where a government defends those three principles

1076
01:31:22,440 --> 01:31:23,940
and we don't have that.

1077
01:31:24,100 --> 01:31:24,880
And that's what I've learned.

1078
01:31:24,980 --> 01:31:28,400
And it's by osmosis, it's by people directly telling me,

1079
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:32,620
it's by the experience of coming up against that system.

1080
01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:37,100
You learned about libertarianism in Austrian economics,

1081
01:31:37,100 --> 01:31:41,560
life on air in front of thousands of people and never pretended otherwise.

1082
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:42,260
Yes.

1083
01:31:42,260 --> 01:31:45,120
What's the most embarrassing, I used to believe,

1084
01:31:45,220 --> 01:31:47,600
this moment you are willing to admit right now?

1085
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:50,040
There's just not one.

1086
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:51,620
There's so many moments.

1087
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:53,260
There's moments of being told.

1088
01:31:53,480 --> 01:31:54,500
There's moments of reading.

1089
01:31:55,260 --> 01:31:56,720
There's moments of experience.

1090
01:31:57,380 --> 01:31:58,520
COVID was one of them.

1091
01:31:58,980 --> 01:32:00,400
Trying to hear, just in Bedford,

1092
01:32:00,940 --> 01:32:04,720
trying to make Bedford a more economically prosperous and safer place.

1093
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:12,800
I came up against the machine of the state and it's not just the state itself it's those who do

1094
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:19,520
its bidding all those people who defend the the mechanics of the state now the people who

1095
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:26,440
vote for a party because they believe it's virtuous and that party's intentions are good

1096
01:32:26,440 --> 01:32:33,640
and they're going to fix the problems in society um coming against that that that's been the biggest

1097
01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:41,980
lesson because unless we get the mechanics right we're going to be stuck forever in this

1098
01:32:41,980 --> 01:32:49,680
doom loop of extracting money up to the richest and most powerful people because legally we've

1099
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:57,980
engineered it to be that unless we engineer it to be the opposite then i refuse to be part of that

1100
01:32:57,980 --> 01:33:00,080
and vote within that system.

1101
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:02,880
I'm very direct now and determined in my views.

1102
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:04,780
I used to think about libertarians,

1103
01:33:04,780 --> 01:33:07,880
people like Eric Voorhees and say,

1104
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:09,540
oh, it's just fucking bullshit.

1105
01:33:09,540 --> 01:33:10,620
Like, it's never gonna be that.

1106
01:33:10,620 --> 01:33:11,940
A little bit of welfare's good.

1107
01:33:11,940 --> 01:33:13,460
You're so, and I'm like, no,

1108
01:33:13,460 --> 01:33:41,828
you have to hold an absolute firm ground now You cannot give an inch on this The minute the state goes from defending life liberty and property to distribution you are setting a country and a society on a path of decay And so my position won be moved I will not become an MP and I will not support a party that doesn restore those basic principles of what the state should do

1109
01:33:41,828 --> 01:33:44,088
the Craig Wright lawsuit

1110
01:33:44,088 --> 01:33:45,828
dragged on for six years

1111
01:33:45,828 --> 01:33:47,928
I remember you were 40

1112
01:33:47,928 --> 01:33:50,448
when you wrote that open letter to Craig

1113
01:33:50,448 --> 01:33:51,708
and you signed it

1114
01:33:51,708 --> 01:33:53,008
Peter McCormack 40

1115
01:33:53,008 --> 01:33:55,048
he had an army of lawyers

1116
01:33:55,048 --> 01:33:56,628
and you had yourself

1117
01:33:56,628 --> 01:33:59,688
what a mistake

1118
01:33:59,688 --> 01:34:02,688
it hospitalized you a few times

1119
01:34:02,688 --> 01:34:04,528
and it almost bankrupted you

1120
01:34:04,528 --> 01:34:06,568
what did you learn from that period?

1121
01:34:07,168 --> 01:34:07,808
a lot

1122
01:34:07,808 --> 01:34:10,008
the being right

1123
01:34:10,008 --> 01:34:19,108
and honest uh doesn't matter with lawfare um yes ultimately i won but i got very lucky

1124
01:34:19,108 --> 01:34:31,708
um that money and power uh is sometimes how do i put this you can be more successful with money

1125
01:34:31,708 --> 01:34:43,868
and power than you can be with uh being truthful honest and moral um that the good guy doesn't

1126
01:34:43,868 --> 01:34:52,028
always win um but again this is downstream of a system that doesn't defend life liberty and

1127
01:34:52,028 --> 01:34:56,188
property because if you defended life liberty and property you defend free speech and therefore

1128
01:34:56,188 --> 01:35:01,908
I would never have been in this legal position. You can weaponize the law legal system to drain

1129
01:35:01,908 --> 01:35:09,788
somebody into defeat. So you win by virtue of having enough money to drag a process on that

1130
01:35:09,788 --> 01:35:15,588
you bankrupt somebody, but you don't win the argument. You just win the process. And the law

1131
01:35:15,588 --> 01:35:21,128
shouldn't be about winning the process. It should be about winning the argument. And that's why the

1132
01:35:21,128 --> 01:35:26,348
surface area of what litigation should cover should be as small as possible it should be

1133
01:35:26,348 --> 01:35:36,508
contract disputes fraud um violence those things which we as individuals can do to others which

1134
01:35:36,508 --> 01:35:46,248
harm their lives and words are not violence anyone who says they are a moron um so it's funny

1135
01:35:46,248 --> 01:35:52,168
everything we talk about here it all just comes back to the same points it's all coming back to

1136
01:35:52,168 --> 01:35:59,268
the role of the state and what the state enables and the state now is just a behemoth of corruption

1137
01:35:59,268 --> 01:36:09,288
immorality greed manipulation because it has a large surface area i mean what we've seen in

1138
01:36:09,288 --> 01:36:16,688
Minnesota with daycare centers. That is downstream from a state with a large surface area,

1139
01:36:16,888 --> 01:36:24,308
which provides distribution systems that can be grifted. If that distribution system didn't happen,

1140
01:36:24,308 --> 01:36:30,648
there would be no free daycare centers that could exploit that system and extract money out

1141
01:36:30,648 --> 01:36:38,708
by corruption, which is theft from the taxpayer. Life is an irony. Roger Beer once believed Craig

1142
01:36:38,708 --> 01:36:46,508
right was Satoshi. Yes. Then publicly split from him during the Bcash Satoshi Vision fiasco.

1143
01:36:47,208 --> 01:36:51,468
Later, he offered to pay you your legal settlement against Craig.

1144
01:36:51,568 --> 01:36:55,088
Not my settlement. He offered to pay towards my legal fees.

1145
01:36:55,228 --> 01:36:55,948
Your legal fees.

1146
01:36:56,068 --> 01:37:00,868
I made a settlement offer to Craig. So a few months before the final judgment,

1147
01:37:00,868 --> 01:37:05,728
it looked like I was going to lose. And it would have bankrupted me. And we went through what the

1148
01:37:05,728 --> 01:37:10,308
bankrupting procedure would mean which would be all my businesses sold my house would have been

1149
01:37:10,308 --> 01:37:14,548
sold after a year i wouldn't have been able to be in a director for a company for seven years i

1150
01:37:14,548 --> 01:37:18,888
would have been bankrupt it would affected me deeply and my kids so i made him an offer which

1151
01:37:18,888 --> 01:37:24,828
was all the money i had said take everything just let me keep my house and my kids because that's

1152
01:37:24,828 --> 01:37:33,208
what we need to yeah so i can be a father um he said no he wanted to destroy my life who else would

1153
01:37:33,208 --> 01:37:40,088
you like to thank for stepping up there are three people specifically who helped financially

1154
01:37:40,088 --> 01:37:47,928
but i wouldn't name them publicly but at the very start two people helped me out and then there was

1155
01:37:47,928 --> 01:37:54,348
a point where i was gonna have to pull i was just gonna have to admit defeat one person specifically

1156
01:37:54,348 --> 01:38:00,128
i reached out uh and they know if they listen to this they'll know exactly who they are and without

1157
01:38:00,128 --> 01:38:04,968
Without them, I would have been bankrupted and lost and Craig would have won.

1158
01:38:04,968 --> 01:38:09,188
But because we could carry the case on, it got me through a tough period.

1159
01:38:09,188 --> 01:38:10,868
We were able to defeat him.

1160
01:38:10,868 --> 01:38:15,448
So that was not only important to me and my family, but to the wider Bitcoin community.

1161
01:38:15,448 --> 01:38:16,448
So I'm not going to name them.

1162
01:38:16,448 --> 01:38:29,116
Then but there loads of other people who supported me like Danny Danny was like my hero during it because he absorbed a lot of the pressure that I was under It was rough and he absorbed so much of that pressure for me

1163
01:38:29,756 --> 01:38:31,836
And so I thank him deeply for that.

1164
01:38:32,376 --> 01:38:34,476
Who shocked you by staying silent?

1165
01:38:37,756 --> 01:38:42,156
I think that there were a lot of people who were affected by this,

1166
01:38:42,156 --> 01:38:48,876
who were facing lawsuits, who were being pressured and having their lives destroyed.

1167
01:38:49,096 --> 01:38:54,416
I was able to get through it because I had the podcast. I had the income. So when I was making

1168
01:38:54,416 --> 01:38:58,716
all that good money, it was fine. But when I was getting, you know, I was getting invoices for 50

1169
01:38:58,716 --> 01:39:02,896
grand, 80 grand, a hundred grand from the lawyers I had to pay. And so I could do it. I just,

1170
01:39:02,896 --> 01:39:05,536
I just never had any money. There are other people who didn't,

1171
01:39:06,616 --> 01:39:11,876
but there are people in the world of Bitcoin billionaires. They've made phenomenal amounts

1172
01:39:11,876 --> 01:39:15,996
of money and I think they could have stepped up and helped people, but for whatever reason,

1173
01:39:15,996 --> 01:39:16,756
and they chose not to.

1174
01:39:17,376 --> 01:39:18,396
And that's their choice.

1175
01:39:18,536 --> 01:39:22,096
But I'd like to think if I was in that scenario, I would have.

1176
01:39:22,176 --> 01:39:23,156
I mean, I've done things.

1177
01:39:23,396 --> 01:39:27,556
I've donated money and helped people in lots of different ways when I can,

1178
01:39:27,596 --> 01:39:28,956
and I would like to think I would have.

1179
01:39:29,536 --> 01:39:29,716
Yeah.

1180
01:39:30,816 --> 01:39:33,696
What do you feel when you think of Craig Wright today?

1181
01:39:37,216 --> 01:39:39,256
I don't feel much anymore.

1182
01:39:41,716 --> 01:39:44,656
Like, have I forgiven him?

1183
01:39:45,996 --> 01:39:47,916
I think so.

1184
01:39:49,656 --> 01:39:51,116
Like, despite everything,

1185
01:39:52,936 --> 01:39:56,836
I think I've forgiven him, which is why I don't care anymore.

1186
01:39:57,516 --> 01:39:58,496
Like, I don't...

1187
01:39:58,496 --> 01:40:00,376
Like, he's cost me financially a lot of money.

1188
01:40:00,536 --> 01:40:01,496
I never got back.

1189
01:40:02,256 --> 01:40:03,256
It cost me a lot of stress.

1190
01:40:03,576 --> 01:40:06,056
I ended up in hospital, I think, three times

1191
01:40:06,056 --> 01:40:09,616
just with those SVTs that were triggered by stress from this.

1192
01:40:11,136 --> 01:40:15,076
It affected my family, my son, certainly,

1193
01:40:15,076 --> 01:40:25,316
my dad deeply um and that was his choice based on a lie to go out and try and destroy my life

1194
01:40:25,316 --> 01:40:32,016
whatever it is he wanted to do that um but i don't want to hold on to that anymore i haven't

1195
01:40:32,016 --> 01:40:42,056
for a long time so i've forgiven i guess but i don't i i mainly have pity for him like you know

1196
01:40:42,056 --> 01:40:52,376
When you make decisions in life where you know you're lying and in the act of that lie you are damaging someone's life severely.

1197
01:40:53,516 --> 01:41:00,936
You go home at night and you have your dinner and you look in the mirror and you go to bed and you live with that lie knowing you're affecting somebody's life.

1198
01:41:01,056 --> 01:41:03,576
What has become of you to be that person?

1199
01:41:04,896 --> 01:41:10,776
And so I don't know if he's a psychopath or he's got deep trauma.

1200
01:41:10,776 --> 01:41:18,116
he's just narcissistic whichever version that is but like I'm free as a human I live a free life

1201
01:41:18,116 --> 01:41:22,816
I'm content I'm happy I've got everything I could possibly want in the world I'm so lucky

1202
01:41:22,816 --> 01:41:27,976
I'm not running towards anything anymore and I'm not running away from anything I am

1203
01:41:27,976 --> 01:41:34,356
after this I'm gonna go and play tennis and it's great and he doesn't get to live that life

1204
01:41:34,356 --> 01:41:40,196
he's running away from whatever he's running away from and trying to run towards something else

1205
01:41:40,196 --> 01:41:45,836
and he just he's never going to have that peace if he's a narcissist he'll never feel true love

1206
01:41:45,836 --> 01:41:51,416
because you can't love if you're a narcissist it's not within you like you're you are you're

1207
01:41:51,416 --> 01:41:58,936
functionally unable to feel and give love and i've loved and been loved and it's the most

1208
01:41:58,936 --> 01:42:08,236
beautiful thing right and he can't do that so he's punished for the eternity of life without

1209
01:42:08,236 --> 01:42:18,036
the ability to experience love he faces a a life of purgatory outside of the world of love that

1210
01:42:18,036 --> 01:42:22,236
other get to experience and that sounds really kind of soppy but it's true you know if you don't

1211
01:42:22,236 --> 01:42:27,276
get to experience real love in life life i've experienced it and i've lost it and it's something

1212
01:42:27,276 --> 01:42:33,976
to treasure when you have it if you don't get to experience that that's really sad so i don't hold

1213
01:42:33,976 --> 01:42:41,696
any deep feelings towards him beyond pity like what a sad existence that is i don't know i don't

1214
01:42:41,696 --> 01:42:46,476
think about it much anymore it's it's a uh it's a chapter in the history of bitcoin i don't know

1215
01:42:46,476 --> 01:42:55,936
chapter six is craig right uh and how ultimately he just lost he lost we beat him we collectively

1216
01:42:55,936 --> 01:43:02,436
beat him and he's done and he's gone and that's it that's where i left off with peter but wait

1217
01:43:02,436 --> 01:43:08,356
until you hear what he admits in part 2 dropping february 11th make sure to subscribe and hit the

1218
01:43:08,356 --> 01:43:21,476
bell so you don't miss it