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You're listening to

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Unlimited Hangout. I'm your host

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Whitney Webb. Today we are going

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to be wading into the big story

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in the financial world and more

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specifically the crypto space by

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working to make sense of the

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spectacular implosion of FTX.

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And the mystique behind its 30

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year old billionaire founder Sam

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Bankman-Fried with each passing

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day. The news about the story

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gets progressively more insane

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with the obvious fraudulent

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behavior bank, Bankman-Fried and

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his polycule posse becoming

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evermore apparent. Yet some

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major outlets like the New York

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Times and covering the FTX

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collapse have avoided portraying

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Venkman fried as a criminal or

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fraud. They haven't even

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bothered to call out what he was

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actually doing it FTX which is

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more or less running a massive

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Ponzi scheme. Yet beyond the

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brazen criminality, the story

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has taken on some interesting

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new dimensions following

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revelations about Sam Beckman

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Fried's connections,

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particularly those of his family

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and his ties to a bizarre

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somewhat cultish movement of

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self-styled philanthropist known

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as Effective Altruism. Not only

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that, but some of these

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connections involve cozy ties to

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those leading the Securities and

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Exchange Commission, as well as

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the revolving door between

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congressional staff and one of

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FTX is subsidiaries. Did Sam

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Beekman fried really accomplish

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all of this on his own? No, but

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narrative is quickly being spun

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that he conducted all of this

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fraud avoided regulatory

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scrutiny and amassed billions of

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dollars of wealth without the

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help of a network that benefited

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from and protected his

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activities. Such a narrative is

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oddly reminiscent of the

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mainstream narrative about

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another brazen financial

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criminal Jeffrey Epstein to help

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me make sense of this complete

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hive of financial fuckery and

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apparent conspiracy. I am joined

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today by Marty Bent and Mike

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Krieger. Marty is the founder of

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t ftc.io. A media company

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focused on Bitcoin beauty and

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freedom in the digital age. He

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is also a partner at 1031, a

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leading investment platform

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focused exclusively on investing

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in the Bitcoin ecosystem. And he

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hosts the Tales from the Crypt

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or TF TC podcast. Mike formerly

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worked on Wall Street as an oil

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and gas general commodities

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analyst and equity research and

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later on a trading desk he

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ultimately left and discuss over

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the state of the industry can't

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blame him, and started the

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website Liberty blitzkrieg.

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Though he doesn't blog much

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anymore, Mike still shares his

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insights on social media and

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elsewhere in between

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homeschooling is for kids and

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gardening. So hey, guys, thanks

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for being here today. Welcome to

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unlimited hangout.

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Hey, Whitney, great to be here.

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Thank you. It's always a

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pleasure, Whitney.

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Well, thanks so much for being

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here, because we have a lot to

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get into. So I'm sure by now

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most people are familiar at

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least have heard of FTX. And Sam

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Venkman. Fried since it's been

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in the news so much over the

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past several days, but maybe we

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should start off giving a

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summary of of the collapse.

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Exactly. You know, how it

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happened? What was the lead up

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to it? And what was FTX? And

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what did it claim to be doing

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versus what it was actually

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doing?

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Yeah, so I guess I can take

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that. And we'll start with, I

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guess we have to start with what

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was FTX? How did it start? In

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short, FTX was a cryptocurrency

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exchange, where people could

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deposit Bitcoin and other

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cryptocurrencies and trade those

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currencies against each other,

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and then trade them with

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leverage, as well. So this was a

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spot where many individuals and

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hedge funds in the crypto space

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would would come to trade,

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different altcoins and Bitcoin,

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using leverage to try to try to

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make a return. But FTX spun out

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of a trading research firm known

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as Alameda and Alameda, their

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claim to fame was their ability

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to arbitrage the price of

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Bitcoin between across Western

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and Asian markets in around

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2018 2019. I mean, the origin

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story, and the lore behind

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Alameda that SPF would put out

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there was that they were somehow

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able to recognize that Bitcoin

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was trading at say, $10,000 in

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the US and $10,100 in Japan. And

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apparently, they were able to

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spin up a bunch of bank accounts

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across the world and arbitrage

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that price difference. So they

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would buy Bitcoin for $10,000 in

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the US, and then sell it for

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10,100 in Japan immediately, and

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they claimed to have been wildly

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profitable with that particular

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trade. And they brought it over

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to South Korea to at least

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that's the story. I'm not sure.

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Do you buy that story? Because

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I've heard from people that

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talked about that we're talking

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about FTX being fraudulent

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basically, in October, I think

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Mark Kehoe did go holidays or

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something like that is his name.

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And he was saying that this

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origin story doesn't make any

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sense to him at all. He would

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have had to have like a ton of

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capital that wasn't his behind.

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until we've made this strategy

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work.

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Yeah, some of its skeptical

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about it too. And I've been

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Michael could chime in here

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about the nature of the type of

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infrastructure that would have

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to be set up from multiple bank

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accounts across the world to

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actually make this trade

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possible in the first place.

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Yeah, so I'm just chime in a few

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things to add there. One is that

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there were some chat releases or

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messages recently, I don't know

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if you to saw but from ex former

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employees, talking about how

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they did make a decent amount of

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money on that trade, somehow we

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can get into that the details

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later and how the Effective

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Altruism network apparently made

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all that happen. But these

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employees claimed that it was

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squandered that whatever money

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they made was squandered. So

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you're still left with this

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gaping hole of Where did all of

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that initial money come from to

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launch FTX. And remember that

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FTX didn't just, you know, sort

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of launch, you know, out of a

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basement or a garage, and then

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slowly, you know, gain share it,

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it came out of nowhere. And we

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still don't know, you know,

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really the origin of the money

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where it came from. And it

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absolutely exploded, I believe

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that it started only a few days

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after Biden announced his

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present presidential candidacy.

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So sometime in 2019, then, but

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it just came out of nowhere. And

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it very quickly became one of

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the biggest so That's bizarre.

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The one I think, you know,

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Whitney, we've I know you've

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done so much work on Epstein.

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But when you first look at him,

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right, one of the one of the,

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you're looking for the money,

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you know, sort of where did the

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initial kind of big money or

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sort of injection come from? I

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think Wexner was one of the

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first correct me if I'm wrong.

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In this case, it seems like the

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only name that I can attach to

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money. early on was this guy,

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Jen Talon, who's a, a co founder

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of Skype and also an effective

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altruists. So that's sort of the

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first. That's that's the only

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significant chunk of money that

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I've been able to find that

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that, you know, surfaces kind of

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early on in the origin story it

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was from it was from that

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individual.

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Yeah, so we'll get into the

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effective altruist stuff a bit

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later, because that's a real

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hive do explain because there's

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a lot of backstory to that, but

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I guess to, you know, sum it up

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briefly here. It seems like a

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lot of FTX is an initial

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activities. And really Sam

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Bateman, Fried's career, from

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the time he left MIT on was

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effectively managed by this

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particular group of effective

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altruists, which is really quite

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a tight knit network. And, you

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know, again, we'll get into that

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later. So, origin story aside,

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so we, we've talked a little bit

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about, I guess, what FTX was.

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So, you know, a lot has come

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out, especially last week about

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what they were actually doing,

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or rather what they were

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supposed to be doing, but didn't

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do. So maybe we could go over

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that a little bit. In terms of,

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you know, just the evidence of

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excessive fraud, and like, what,

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what has been exposed about FTX.

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That's significant. And on the

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business side,

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yeah. And this, this dovetails

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into the thread that was pulled

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on over the last couple of weeks

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that essentially uncovered the

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big massive fraud that was going

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on. And this revolves around FTX

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is exchange token FTT. So when.

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So first, we'll say there's this

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big theme in the overarching

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cryptocurrency space,

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particularly with exchanges,

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where they'll essentially launch

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their own token exchange token

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in the market that this token

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will allow users to benefit from

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the profitability of the

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exchange. In my mind, this whole

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token mechanism doesn't make

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sense from first principles. But

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it has been trend over the last

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five to six years particular.

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But by Nance has an exchange

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00:08:54,869 --> 00:08:57,449
token crypto.com has an exchange

285
00:08:57,449 --> 00:09:01,019
token, and FTX hasn't had an

286
00:09:01,019 --> 00:09:02,579
exchange token as well. And so

287
00:09:02,579 --> 00:09:05,039
this is where the unraveling of

288
00:09:05,039 --> 00:09:07,709
that dx began. So they had their

289
00:09:07,709 --> 00:09:10,349
FTT token. And the way that

290
00:09:10,349 --> 00:09:12,359
these token mechanics typically

291
00:09:12,359 --> 00:09:14,369
work is the exchange will pre

292
00:09:14,369 --> 00:09:16,949
mined a bunch of these exchange

293
00:09:16,949 --> 00:09:19,739
tokens and FTX, this case FTT.

294
00:09:19,769 --> 00:09:21,119
And what they'll do is they'll

295
00:09:21,119 --> 00:09:22,979
hold a lion's share of the

296
00:09:22,979 --> 00:09:25,349
supply off the market on their

297
00:09:25,349 --> 00:09:26,669
own balance sheet, and then

298
00:09:26,999 --> 00:09:29,909
they'll release a small fraction

299
00:09:30,359 --> 00:09:31,919
of the free float of the token

300
00:09:31,919 --> 00:09:33,449
to retail investors. And they

301
00:09:33,449 --> 00:09:35,639
can trade that in what this

302
00:09:36,059 --> 00:09:38,099
mechanism allows, since they're

303
00:09:38,099 --> 00:09:39,929
holding a lot of supply off the

304
00:09:39,929 --> 00:09:41,669
market and allows them to

305
00:09:41,699 --> 00:09:44,549
artificially increase the price

306
00:09:44,549 --> 00:09:46,979
of these tokens rather trivially

307
00:09:47,009 --> 00:09:49,169
with some washe trading. And so

308
00:09:49,199 --> 00:09:51,059
in the case of FTX, and FTT.

309
00:09:52,049 --> 00:09:53,549
Many people believe what they

310
00:09:53,549 --> 00:09:56,129
were doing was wash trading, and

311
00:09:56,129 --> 00:09:59,309
be Alameda to push the price of

312
00:09:59,309 --> 00:10:01,439
FTT up significantly high,

313
00:10:01,499 --> 00:10:03,239
giving it a lot of value in a

314
00:10:03,239 --> 00:10:05,309
larger market cap, and

315
00:10:05,309 --> 00:10:06,569
artificial market cap, if you

316
00:10:06,569 --> 00:10:09,089
will. And so what happened a few

317
00:10:09,089 --> 00:10:13,649
weeks ago, was coin desk

318
00:10:13,649 --> 00:10:16,829
released an article of FTX, his

319
00:10:16,829 --> 00:10:20,009
balance sheet. And it's

320
00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:22,139
basically highlighted that a

321
00:10:22,139 --> 00:10:24,179
lion's share of ft X's balance

322
00:10:24,179 --> 00:10:25,829
sheet was their own FTT token

323
00:10:25,859 --> 00:10:28,199
and not actually Bitcoin, or

324
00:10:28,199 --> 00:10:29,609
other more established

325
00:10:29,609 --> 00:10:32,849
cryptocurrencies. And what

326
00:10:32,849 --> 00:10:34,619
happened then is that the larger

327
00:10:34,649 --> 00:10:36,329
their largest competitor in the

328
00:10:36,329 --> 00:10:38,789
space by Nance, their CEO

329
00:10:38,789 --> 00:10:40,559
recognized this and basically

330
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,689
saw it as an opportunity to take

331
00:10:42,689 --> 00:10:45,089
out in a competitor, or he

332
00:10:45,089 --> 00:10:47,489
simply saw this is insane, that

333
00:10:47,489 --> 00:10:50,519
their balance sheet is, is

334
00:10:51,089 --> 00:10:52,829
predominantly their their own

335
00:10:52,979 --> 00:10:54,479
exchange token, and that they

336
00:10:54,479 --> 00:10:55,439
don't have a significant amount

337
00:10:55,439 --> 00:10:56,879
of bitcoin, or cash on their

338
00:10:56,879 --> 00:10:58,859
balance sheet. And so what

339
00:10:58,859 --> 00:11:01,529
happened after CZ, the CEO by

340
00:11:01,529 --> 00:11:03,329
Nance saw that that balance

341
00:11:03,329 --> 00:11:04,769
sheet and the coin desk article,

342
00:11:04,829 --> 00:11:06,329
he came out publicly and

343
00:11:06,329 --> 00:11:09,119
announced, we're not comfortable

344
00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:11,339
with the state of FTX. So we're

345
00:11:11,339 --> 00:11:14,129
going to dump our FTT tokens by

346
00:11:14,129 --> 00:11:16,169
Nance had upwards of $500

347
00:11:16,169 --> 00:11:19,319
million worth of this FTT token.

348
00:11:19,319 --> 00:11:21,299
So when CZ came out, and

349
00:11:21,299 --> 00:11:23,219
publicly signaled that by Nance

350
00:11:23,219 --> 00:11:24,689
was going to dump their FTT

351
00:11:24,689 --> 00:11:27,269
tokens, the price of FTT starts

352
00:11:27,299 --> 00:11:29,639
to fall significantly, because

353
00:11:29,879 --> 00:11:32,039
others saw that and by Nance

354
00:11:32,039 --> 00:11:33,269
being one of the largest holders

355
00:11:33,269 --> 00:11:35,099
that they're going to sell their

356
00:11:35,099 --> 00:11:36,869
FTT tokens, I mean, the price is

357
00:11:36,869 --> 00:11:39,479
going to go down. And so others

358
00:11:39,479 --> 00:11:41,129
who did not want to get taken

359
00:11:41,129 --> 00:11:42,509
out with a tie to that trade

360
00:11:42,509 --> 00:11:44,339
decide to follow along with CZ.

361
00:11:44,819 --> 00:11:47,279
And so that drove the price of

362
00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:51,329
FTT token down below when many

363
00:11:51,329 --> 00:11:52,949
are claiming to be a critical

364
00:11:53,129 --> 00:11:55,919
point, which was $22. Eventually

365
00:11:55,919 --> 00:11:57,929
it fell down to I believe, for

366
00:11:58,229 --> 00:12:00,989
$4. But when that happened, when

367
00:12:01,259 --> 00:12:03,719
CZ started selling, and other

368
00:12:03,719 --> 00:12:05,969
started selling as well, the

369
00:12:05,969 --> 00:12:07,739
price of FTT fell significantly,

370
00:12:07,769 --> 00:12:10,079
obviously, in this is what began

371
00:12:10,079 --> 00:12:11,789
the unraveling of the giant

372
00:12:11,789 --> 00:12:14,729
fraud that was FTX. And so once

373
00:12:14,729 --> 00:12:16,439
the price fell below a critical

374
00:12:16,439 --> 00:12:19,589
point, the market became aware

375
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,739
that what FTX was doing is they

376
00:12:22,739 --> 00:12:25,289
were giving large amounts of

377
00:12:25,289 --> 00:12:28,259
FTT. To Alameda, their trading

378
00:12:28,259 --> 00:12:29,789
arm, which are supposed to be

379
00:12:29,789 --> 00:12:30,809
separate, I think that's should

380
00:12:30,809 --> 00:12:34,049
be important to note is FTX and

381
00:12:34,049 --> 00:12:35,729
Alameda were posturing publicly

382
00:12:35,729 --> 00:12:36,899
that they're completely separate

383
00:12:36,899 --> 00:12:39,449
entities that had no involvement

384
00:12:39,449 --> 00:12:40,829
with each other, but it's become

385
00:12:40,919 --> 00:12:42,239
glaringly obvious that they were

386
00:12:42,239 --> 00:12:44,279
commingling funds and working

387
00:12:44,279 --> 00:12:46,079
very closely with each other.

388
00:12:46,139 --> 00:12:47,489
And so when the price of FTT

389
00:12:47,489 --> 00:12:50,609
fell, it became known that FTX

390
00:12:50,609 --> 00:12:52,979
was giving a bunch of FTT tokens

391
00:12:52,979 --> 00:12:55,469
to Alameda. And then the Alameda

392
00:12:55,619 --> 00:12:57,389
was using those FTT tokens as

393
00:12:57,389 --> 00:12:59,369
collateral to take out loans for

394
00:12:59,369 --> 00:13:01,199
many other actors in this space,

395
00:13:02,099 --> 00:13:03,629
loans and Bitcoin and stable

396
00:13:03,629 --> 00:13:05,459
coins. And so when the price

397
00:13:05,459 --> 00:13:07,529
fell, the collateral with all

398
00:13:07,529 --> 00:13:09,899
the loans that Alameda had taken

399
00:13:09,899 --> 00:13:11,159
out, became essentially

400
00:13:11,159 --> 00:13:14,789
worthless, and they became the

401
00:13:14,789 --> 00:13:15,959
debt that they had taken out,

402
00:13:15,989 --> 00:13:17,609
they couldn't pay it back. And

403
00:13:17,609 --> 00:13:19,019
so they became essentially

404
00:13:19,019 --> 00:13:21,569
insolvent overnight. And that's

405
00:13:21,569 --> 00:13:23,039
where the cascading effect

406
00:13:23,039 --> 00:13:23,459
began.

407
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,580
So in the aftermath of this, and

408
00:13:26,580 --> 00:13:28,230
they're filing for bankruptcy

409
00:13:28,290 --> 00:13:30,630
ongoing, has been put in charge

410
00:13:30,630 --> 00:13:33,270
of FTX. And most of the, you

411
00:13:33,270 --> 00:13:34,410
know, people that had previously

412
00:13:34,410 --> 00:13:35,340
been in charge of it, including

413
00:13:35,340 --> 00:13:36,420
bank been freed, of course, are

414
00:13:36,420 --> 00:13:38,760
out at this point. But this guy,

415
00:13:39,210 --> 00:13:41,400
John Ray, right, he was

416
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:42,930
previously brought in to clean

417
00:13:42,930 --> 00:13:46,020
up Enron. And he had a bunch of

418
00:13:46,050 --> 00:13:48,420
revelations, I guess, that he

419
00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:49,800
produced on the court filing or

420
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:50,610
elsewhere, some sort of

421
00:13:50,610 --> 00:13:51,900
documentation came out where he

422
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:54,030
was basically going over that,

423
00:13:54,060 --> 00:13:55,140
you know, this is even worse

424
00:13:55,140 --> 00:13:56,790
than Enron and torn in terms of

425
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:58,530
corporate controls. And some of

426
00:13:58,530 --> 00:14:00,540
the stuff he's he said, was just

427
00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:01,710
insane, like didn't even have a

428
00:14:01,710 --> 00:14:05,190
bank account. And like, you

429
00:14:05,190 --> 00:14:07,560
know, I mean, loads of stuff

430
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:08,340
that's really just mind

431
00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:09,810
boggling. Do you guys want to go

432
00:14:09,810 --> 00:14:10,680
over that for a little bit?

433
00:14:10,709 --> 00:14:12,239
I wanted to just add some

434
00:14:12,329 --> 00:14:13,769
clarification on what Marty was

435
00:14:13,769 --> 00:14:14,549
saying, as well, because some

436
00:14:14,549 --> 00:14:16,079
people listening may get really

437
00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:17,279
confused, as far as you know,

438
00:14:17,279 --> 00:14:19,529
FTT, how could it possibly, you

439
00:14:19,529 --> 00:14:20,819
know, sort of collateralize this

440
00:14:20,819 --> 00:14:23,459
gigantic Ponzi scheme? And, you

441
00:14:23,459 --> 00:14:24,719
know, what is it even right?

442
00:14:25,079 --> 00:14:26,429
From what I've from my reading,

443
00:14:26,459 --> 00:14:28,079
and maybe Marty can correct me

444
00:14:28,079 --> 00:14:29,069
if I'm wrong here, because I've

445
00:14:29,069 --> 00:14:30,749
never traded or had any funds on

446
00:14:30,749 --> 00:14:33,719
FTX. But I read that apparently,

447
00:14:33,719 --> 00:14:36,329
FTX was offering discounts on

448
00:14:36,329 --> 00:14:38,129
their on trading or something

449
00:14:38,129 --> 00:14:40,169
like that to customers or users

450
00:14:40,169 --> 00:14:42,119
that were using the FTT or

451
00:14:42,119 --> 00:14:43,709
holding the FTT token. So that

452
00:14:43,709 --> 00:14:45,059
might have been the carrot that

453
00:14:45,059 --> 00:14:46,829
was being used because remember,

454
00:14:46,829 --> 00:14:49,229
the these these tokens are not

455
00:14:49,259 --> 00:14:50,939
equity, right? It's not an

456
00:14:50,939 --> 00:14:52,529
equity stake in FTX. It's

457
00:14:52,529 --> 00:14:54,809
there's no like ownership of

458
00:14:54,809 --> 00:14:56,189
anything that comes along with

459
00:14:56,189 --> 00:14:57,839
holding a token. So they have to

460
00:14:57,839 --> 00:14:59,969
put out some sort of rationale.

461
00:14:59,999 --> 00:15:01,199
For what is this going to do?

462
00:15:01,199 --> 00:15:02,549
And I think that's what it was.

463
00:15:02,789 --> 00:15:03,899
Are you? Are you aware of any

464
00:15:03,929 --> 00:15:05,099
anything like that, Marty? Or is

465
00:15:05,099 --> 00:15:06,149
that does that sound right?

466
00:15:06,210 --> 00:15:08,280
Yeah. And to be clear, I've

467
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,350
never traded on FTX or use that

468
00:15:10,350 --> 00:15:12,690
TT token. That yeah, that's

469
00:15:12,690 --> 00:15:14,070
typically how these exchange

470
00:15:14,070 --> 00:15:15,420
tokens work. They try to

471
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,500
basically give benefits to users

472
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:21,330
that that token on the exchange,

473
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:23,400
that others who aren't using the

474
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:24,450
token would not get.

475
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,370
Right. And so again, that's sort

476
00:15:26,370 --> 00:15:28,620
of a way to tie some sort of

477
00:15:28,620 --> 00:15:30,630
utility to it to then that's how

478
00:15:30,630 --> 00:15:32,700
the that's one of the ways that

479
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:34,320
the value can get just crazily

480
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,270
inflated, because users might

481
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,250
just choose to hold that token

482
00:15:39,090 --> 00:15:40,590
on on the exchange, you know,

483
00:15:40,590 --> 00:15:41,550
because there's some some

484
00:15:41,550 --> 00:15:43,350
marginal value to it some some

485
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:44,670
discount or something like that.

486
00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:46,980
Yes. Yes. And that's actually I

487
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:48,990
believe, how ft TX originally

488
00:15:48,990 --> 00:15:50,310
launched, I believe the FTT

489
00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:52,980
token was part of an Ico that

490
00:15:52,980 --> 00:15:54,420
they that they launched to

491
00:15:54,420 --> 00:15:57,450
actually fund or market that

492
00:15:57,450 --> 00:15:58,710
they were funding the exchange

493
00:15:58,710 --> 00:16:00,870
with the FTT. Ico.

494
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:02,490
Right? So for people that don't

495
00:16:02,490 --> 00:16:04,200
know that Ico is an initial coin

496
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,410
offering, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

497
00:16:07,530 --> 00:16:08,550
I don't know, if everyone's up

498
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:10,440
to speed on crypto isms. On my

499
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:11,700
podcast, you know, I'm certainly

500
00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:13,980
not I'm, you know, a crypto

501
00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:15,840
person myself in terms of being

502
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:16,800
as knowledgeable as you guys

503
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:17,850
about this type of stuff, which

504
00:16:17,850 --> 00:16:19,500
is, you know, part of why you

505
00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:22,560
are here. So anyway, to get to

506
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,060
get back to the conversation,

507
00:16:24,990 --> 00:16:26,460
you know, about FTX. And so we

508
00:16:26,460 --> 00:16:27,510
can spend more time sort of

509
00:16:27,510 --> 00:16:30,030
unpacking a lot of these, you

510
00:16:30,030 --> 00:16:31,050
know, revelations that aren't

511
00:16:31,050 --> 00:16:33,240
getting a lot of lip service in

512
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:34,500
the media, you know, about this

513
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:37,140
whole situation. We're turning

514
00:16:37,140 --> 00:16:38,010
to what I mentioned a minute, a

515
00:16:38,070 --> 00:16:39,540
minute ago about the extent of

516
00:16:39,540 --> 00:16:40,740
criminality and fraud and how

517
00:16:40,740 --> 00:16:42,000
the person that's been brought

518
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,260
into clean up previously brought

519
00:16:43,260 --> 00:16:44,700
in to clean up, Enron says it's

520
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:46,560
the worst, worst thing he's ever

521
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,150
seen in his whole career, you

522
00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:49,380
know, there was no board, no

523
00:16:49,380 --> 00:16:51,600
board meetings. You know, like I

524
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:52,560
mentioned earlier, no bank

525
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,900
account. So, I mean, if it was

526
00:16:54,900 --> 00:16:56,340
this egregious how, and why was

527
00:16:56,340 --> 00:16:57,420
nothing done before its

528
00:16:57,420 --> 00:16:57,960
collapse?

529
00:16:58,170 --> 00:16:59,520
Well, I mean, I'll take this

530
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,250
just to start. You know, I think

531
00:17:02,250 --> 00:17:04,680
Marty actually called out SBF

532
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,230
publicly on Twitter. Earlier a

533
00:17:07,230 --> 00:17:08,550
few times, I think I recall

534
00:17:08,550 --> 00:17:10,770
that, you know, I never did, but

535
00:17:10,770 --> 00:17:12,570
I've also been very much not

536
00:17:13,260 --> 00:17:15,030
paying close attention to a lot

537
00:17:15,030 --> 00:17:15,930
of different things over the

538
00:17:15,930 --> 00:17:17,190
last year or so I've been much

539
00:17:17,190 --> 00:17:18,090
less active than I was

540
00:17:18,090 --> 00:17:19,980
historically, however, I do

541
00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:22,860
recall, you know, earlier this

542
00:17:22,860 --> 00:17:24,030
year, you know, when I saw him

543
00:17:24,030 --> 00:17:26,280
on stage with Clinton and Tony

544
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,020
Blair, at I believe was

545
00:17:29,070 --> 00:17:29,580
telling,

546
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,240
I saw this guy. And then also

547
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:34,230
when I just saw him sort of

548
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:37,290
disparaging Bitcoin, very, what

549
00:17:37,290 --> 00:17:38,460
I thought would be a very snake

550
00:17:38,460 --> 00:17:40,020
like fashion, very publicly

551
00:17:40,050 --> 00:17:41,820
calling for regulations. I mean,

552
00:17:41,970 --> 00:17:43,260
even someone like me, who's not

553
00:17:43,260 --> 00:17:44,460
paying that close attention,

554
00:17:44,580 --> 00:17:47,010
that definitely made me you

555
00:17:47,010 --> 00:17:48,240
know, sort of caused me to say,

556
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:49,410
wait a minute, why, first of

557
00:17:49,410 --> 00:17:50,520
all, where did this guy come

558
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,170
from? Who is this guy? What is

559
00:17:52,170 --> 00:17:54,540
he doing? It felt to me, like it

560
00:17:54,540 --> 00:17:58,080
was some sort of a op, or he was

561
00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,550
somebody's, you know, beard or

562
00:17:59,550 --> 00:18:01,200
something that he was there for

563
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,720
some purpose. And I just didn't

564
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,760
bother to look into it at all, I

565
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,170
had no stake in any of this,

566
00:18:07,170 --> 00:18:10,500
right. But it was always weird

567
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:13,050
to me, like, because the talking

568
00:18:13,050 --> 00:18:15,090
points that he was using, it was

569
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:16,890
it was almost as if I was the

570
00:18:16,890 --> 00:18:19,620
WTF, and I wanted to, you know,

571
00:18:19,650 --> 00:18:21,030
wreck Bitcoin as much as

572
00:18:21,030 --> 00:18:23,070
possible, you know, I'd be this

573
00:18:23,070 --> 00:18:24,570
guy, you know, I just create

574
00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:25,980
this guy in a laboratory and put

575
00:18:25,980 --> 00:18:27,930
them out there. So that, to me,

576
00:18:27,930 --> 00:18:30,060
was always super bizarre. And I

577
00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:31,860
think that in some way must tie

578
00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:33,720
into the question you're asking,

579
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,150
which is, how is this allowed to

580
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:38,190
get so big, so fast? And go on?

581
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:39,900
And I think the clear answer to

582
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:40,920
that, at least from my

583
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:42,300
perspective, based on what I'm

584
00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:45,480
seeing is that it was it was an

585
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,190
intentional thing, you know, he

586
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:51,090
was he was meant to. He was

587
00:18:51,090 --> 00:18:53,430
meant to push forward some sort

588
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:54,990
of, quote unquote, elite

589
00:18:55,710 --> 00:18:57,900
narrative and agenda. I think

590
00:18:57,900 --> 00:18:59,850
that much is clear. And

591
00:18:59,850 --> 00:19:01,230
obviously even more clear now

592
00:19:01,230 --> 00:19:03,810
that we can unpack a lot of

593
00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:05,580
these weird connections and webs

594
00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:07,800
that we will do. But that's my

595
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,770
take. And I sort of had that

596
00:19:10,770 --> 00:19:12,090
feeling from, you know, when I

597
00:19:12,090 --> 00:19:13,890
first saw him, but now it's just

598
00:19:13,890 --> 00:19:14,880
becoming too obvious.

599
00:19:15,150 --> 00:19:17,640
Yeah. Mark, do you have any

600
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:18,000
thoughts?

601
00:19:18,389 --> 00:19:20,939
Yeah, I just echo what Michael

602
00:19:20,939 --> 00:19:22,139
said. I mean, Michael mentioned,

603
00:19:22,169 --> 00:19:24,419
I've been calling SPFL since

604
00:19:24,419 --> 00:19:28,559
July of last year of 2021. And,

605
00:19:29,009 --> 00:19:31,109
again, I haven't been I focused

606
00:19:31,109 --> 00:19:32,939
on Bitcoin only, I really don't

607
00:19:33,179 --> 00:19:34,139
trade any of the other

608
00:19:34,139 --> 00:19:36,209
cryptocurrencies and had no use

609
00:19:36,209 --> 00:19:40,739
for FTX at all, or my

610
00:19:40,739 --> 00:19:43,949
involvement in Bitcoin, but I

611
00:19:43,949 --> 00:19:44,999
would echo what Michael just

612
00:19:44,999 --> 00:19:46,769
said, the reason I started

613
00:19:46,769 --> 00:19:49,169
calling them out in July of last

614
00:19:49,169 --> 00:19:50,639
year, that's because he was

615
00:19:50,639 --> 00:19:53,789
going on CNBC, and being wanted

616
00:19:53,789 --> 00:19:56,369
as this expert that knew

617
00:19:56,369 --> 00:19:57,779
everything about the space and

618
00:19:57,779 --> 00:19:59,009
there was one particular enter

619
00:19:59,099 --> 00:20:01,409
interview He conducted with Joe

620
00:20:01,409 --> 00:20:04,259
Kernan, from CNBC, one of their

621
00:20:04,259 --> 00:20:05,819
shows and it just became

622
00:20:05,849 --> 00:20:07,439
glaringly obvious to me that he

623
00:20:07,439 --> 00:20:09,839
really didn't grasp the nature

624
00:20:09,959 --> 00:20:12,029
of Bitcoin or other

625
00:20:12,029 --> 00:20:14,579
cryptocurrencies at all and the

626
00:20:14,579 --> 00:20:16,739
conversation. That particular

627
00:20:16,739 --> 00:20:18,269
conversation revolved around the

628
00:20:18,269 --> 00:20:20,849
consensus mechanisms that these

629
00:20:20,849 --> 00:20:22,199
cryptocurrencies use proof of

630
00:20:22,199 --> 00:20:24,479
work or proof of stake, and, in

631
00:20:24,479 --> 00:20:26,639
that particular interview, he

632
00:20:26,909 --> 00:20:29,159
completely mischaracterized the

633
00:20:29,159 --> 00:20:31,019
nature of the two. And it became

634
00:20:31,019 --> 00:20:33,269
obvious to me that he didn't

635
00:20:33,269 --> 00:20:36,269
understand what these things how

636
00:20:36,269 --> 00:20:38,639
they work, or why these

637
00:20:38,849 --> 00:20:41,099
consensus, consensus mechanisms

638
00:20:41,099 --> 00:20:42,299
work the way they do. And that

639
00:20:42,389 --> 00:20:43,619
seemed very fishy to me.

640
00:20:44,190 --> 00:20:45,000
Well, you know, what's really

641
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,200
crazy too, though, is that it's

642
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,450
not just him like the the person

643
00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:49,140
that was in charge of the

644
00:20:49,140 --> 00:20:51,540
Alameda side of things, Caroline

645
00:20:51,570 --> 00:20:54,450
Ellison, who is allegedly like

646
00:20:54,450 --> 00:20:57,420
his SPF x, or current or

647
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,430
something, girlfriend, some sort

648
00:20:59,430 --> 00:21:01,710
of romantic partner. There's

649
00:21:01,710 --> 00:21:02,520
videos of her that have

650
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,020
resurfaced, where she is also,

651
00:21:04,020 --> 00:21:04,950
like, she doesn't know what to

652
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:06,360
say, when asked basic questions

653
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:08,280
about the industry that she's,

654
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:09,630
you know, her company's supposed

655
00:21:09,630 --> 00:21:10,740
to be like, you know, one of the

656
00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:13,260
market leaders have just totally

657
00:21:13,260 --> 00:21:14,820
clueless about loads of stuff.

658
00:21:14,820 --> 00:21:16,590
And then another top executive

659
00:21:16,590 --> 00:21:18,300
at FTX, I guess, Ryan, Salah

660
00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:20,850
May, or I'm not sure how you say

661
00:21:20,850 --> 00:21:22,830
his last name, but he, there was

662
00:21:22,830 --> 00:21:24,480
also a video that surfaced of

663
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,610
Him from before the collapse,

664
00:21:26,610 --> 00:21:27,660
and he's asked about like

665
00:21:27,660 --> 00:21:29,310
trading and crypto and stuff.

666
00:21:29,310 --> 00:21:31,080
And he's like, Oh, I can't talk

667
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,070
about that. I mean, he's they're

668
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:34,290
very evasive, about, you know,

669
00:21:34,290 --> 00:21:36,360
answering really basic questions

670
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:37,890
of stuff you think they would be

671
00:21:37,890 --> 00:21:40,950
knowledgeable about? For being,

672
00:21:40,980 --> 00:21:43,830
you know, such a visible face of

673
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:46,770
the crypto industry? Right. And

674
00:21:47,310 --> 00:21:49,200
to go back to something that

675
00:21:49,470 --> 00:21:51,780
CanSat a bigger network that was

676
00:21:51,780 --> 00:21:53,250
so I don't I don't think we

677
00:21:53,250 --> 00:21:54,780
quite touched on is that when

678
00:21:54,780 --> 00:21:55,950
these guys around, you know,

679
00:21:56,610 --> 00:21:58,050
sort of the hype around them.

680
00:21:58,050 --> 00:21:59,400
There was this huge marketing

681
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,200
campaign that was paid for by

682
00:22:01,860 --> 00:22:03,450
some means that involved

683
00:22:03,450 --> 00:22:05,160
involved like very big name,

684
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:06,960
people like Tom Brady and Gisele

685
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,620
Bundchen. The guy from what's

686
00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:11,640
his name, Larry David, the

687
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,260
actor, they had like a Superbowl

688
00:22:13,260 --> 00:22:15,420
commercial. They got their name

689
00:22:15,420 --> 00:22:17,340
on the Miami Miami Heat arena.

690
00:22:17,340 --> 00:22:19,230
And then that that conference

691
00:22:19,230 --> 00:22:21,330
where he were SBF is up speaking

692
00:22:21,330 --> 00:22:22,140
with Tony Blair, and Bill

693
00:22:22,140 --> 00:22:23,550
Clinton, that was a crypto

694
00:22:23,550 --> 00:22:24,960
conference in the Bahamas that

695
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,210
was backed in organized by FTX.

696
00:22:27,570 --> 00:22:28,710
I mean, they've been doing a lot

697
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:32,370
of organizing in terms of PR and

698
00:22:32,370 --> 00:22:33,540
but like very flashy and

699
00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:35,820
expensive PR and like creating

700
00:22:35,820 --> 00:22:37,170
these conferences, but they have

701
00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:38,850
no you know, if you listen to

702
00:22:38,850 --> 00:22:39,630
them, and what you brought up,

703
00:22:39,630 --> 00:22:40,740
Marty, too, is that they have

704
00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:42,570
no, like, actual knowledge when

705
00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:43,770
pressed on this stuff. I mean,

706
00:22:43,770 --> 00:22:46,080
that's pretty nuts. And if

707
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:47,430
people like you can see this,

708
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:48,600
and some, I think there were

709
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,070
some other people that were also

710
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:51,960
calling them out, well, before

711
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,940
the collapse as well, you know,

712
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:54,990
I mean, if these people could

713
00:22:54,990 --> 00:22:56,700
see it, why couldn't you know,

714
00:22:57,030 --> 00:22:58,140
the regulators?

715
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:59,970
And also, here's another thing

716
00:22:59,970 --> 00:23:01,110
that, you know, I think needs to

717
00:23:01,110 --> 00:23:04,050
be explored further, is, with

718
00:23:04,050 --> 00:23:06,030
all of these campaigns, I still,

719
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:07,560
it's still not clear how they

720
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:08,850
were paid for. In other words,

721
00:23:09,030 --> 00:23:11,460
did Larry David accept FTT? Did

722
00:23:11,670 --> 00:23:13,620
Tom Brady and Gisele accept FTT?

723
00:23:13,620 --> 00:23:15,600
Was it all paid for and FTT? Can

724
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,700
you actually, you know, sponsor

725
00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:19,950
and arena with FTT tokens? I

726
00:23:19,950 --> 00:23:21,240
think that seems unlikely,

727
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:24,570
right? For sure. Some of it

728
00:23:24,570 --> 00:23:26,610
probably was right. But but the

729
00:23:26,610 --> 00:23:28,110
rest of it, you know, I just

730
00:23:28,110 --> 00:23:29,520
don't see a sports team taking

731
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,890
FTT tokens for you know, 10s or

732
00:23:31,890 --> 00:23:33,090
hundreds of millions of dollars.

733
00:23:33,390 --> 00:23:34,860
And so then you have to ask

734
00:23:34,860 --> 00:23:36,510
yourself, Okay, well, it really

735
00:23:36,510 --> 00:23:38,760
does seem like this entity had

736
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,490
an unlimited budget. And if

737
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:42,750
they're not paying for it with

738
00:23:42,750 --> 00:23:45,090
FTT, and FTT was the only thing

739
00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:46,500
that was really collateralizing

740
00:23:46,770 --> 00:23:48,840
this entire Ponzi scheme. Well,

741
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,430
where was that unlimited budget

742
00:23:50,430 --> 00:23:51,900
coming from? Was it just

743
00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:53,460
customer funds? Was it something

744
00:23:53,460 --> 00:23:55,140
else? Clearly, in the beginning,

745
00:23:55,470 --> 00:23:57,180
it was something else, okay, the

746
00:23:57,180 --> 00:23:58,560
money, this money was coming

747
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,510
from somewhere. And again, to go

748
00:24:00,510 --> 00:24:04,020
from zero to the extent of,

749
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,180
let's say market share that they

750
00:24:06,270 --> 00:24:07,740
eventually had at their peak.

751
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:10,080
That's not, you know, that takes

752
00:24:10,170 --> 00:24:11,610
as we as we discuss money, it

753
00:24:11,610 --> 00:24:13,350
takes money, it's capital. And

754
00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:15,060
it's still not clear to me where

755
00:24:15,060 --> 00:24:16,470
that's from and again, just just

756
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:18,240
donating font, you know, even

757
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:19,440
though they donated a lot to

758
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,120
politicians, it's not enough to

759
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:22,650
do, you know, to sort of have

760
00:24:22,650 --> 00:24:24,090
the rise that they had there was

761
00:24:24,420 --> 00:24:26,040
it felt like they were meant to

762
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,630
be, you know, in this not in a

763
00:24:27,630 --> 00:24:29,130
universal sense, but in a sort

764
00:24:29,130 --> 00:24:30,180
of sketchy sense.

765
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,400
Yeah, definitely sketchy? Well,

766
00:24:32,850 --> 00:24:33,810
there's a couple of things that

767
00:24:33,810 --> 00:24:36,120
have sort of a reason relatively

768
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,340
recently on the front of

769
00:24:38,370 --> 00:24:39,840
potential collusion with

770
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:40,860
government authorities and

771
00:24:40,860 --> 00:24:43,350
regulators. There, for example,

772
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:46,170
is the donations that SBF made

773
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,220
not just to the Democratic

774
00:24:47,220 --> 00:24:48,690
Party, but also to members of

775
00:24:49,110 --> 00:24:51,270
Congress, that sit on the

776
00:24:51,270 --> 00:24:52,710
Financial Services Committee,

777
00:24:52,710 --> 00:24:54,930
including Maxine Waters, and

778
00:24:54,930 --> 00:24:56,490
another congressman, and those

779
00:24:56,490 --> 00:24:58,650
two congressmen are congress

780
00:24:58,650 --> 00:25:00,840
people. I don't know are the

781
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,880
ones that are due to investigate

782
00:25:02,970 --> 00:25:04,860
FTX on behalf of the government,

783
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:06,570
which is pretty insane because

784
00:25:06,570 --> 00:25:07,650
there's pictures that have

785
00:25:07,650 --> 00:25:09,390
resurfaced and videos of Maxine

786
00:25:09,390 --> 00:25:12,300
Waters, blowing Sam Venkman free

787
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:13,950
to kiss and you know, they're

788
00:25:14,220 --> 00:25:16,980
very chummy and Huggy and a lot

789
00:25:16,980 --> 00:25:17,970
of these photos so that, you

790
00:25:17,970 --> 00:25:19,650
know, that's convenient to have

791
00:25:19,650 --> 00:25:21,030
the people investigating you,

792
00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:23,460
like you that much. And then on

793
00:25:23,460 --> 00:25:24,480
the other side of this, there's

794
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,130
this apparent connection to Gary

795
00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:27,600
Gensler, who's head of the SEC

796
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,620
or Securities and Exchange

797
00:25:28,650 --> 00:25:29,580
Exchange Commission.

798
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,550
Yes. It was coming to light that

799
00:25:32,550 --> 00:25:34,050
there was a particular meeting,

800
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:36,060
I believe, earlier this year

801
00:25:36,060 --> 00:25:39,480
between Gary Gensler and SPF and

802
00:25:39,510 --> 00:25:41,250
the meeting notes. The the

803
00:25:41,250 --> 00:25:42,930
highlight of the topic of the

804
00:25:42,930 --> 00:25:45,000
meeting was something like

805
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,150
figuring out a way to give FTX

806
00:25:48,150 --> 00:25:50,160
amnesty for breaking securities

807
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,620
law with a certain form of

808
00:25:52,620 --> 00:25:53,700
legislation that would get

809
00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:54,270
pushed through.

810
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,029
And do we know the conclusions

811
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:58,049
of that meeting or what came of

812
00:25:58,049 --> 00:25:59,399
it, or that's up in the air.

813
00:25:59,700 --> 00:26:00,960
It's up in the air right now.

814
00:26:01,020 --> 00:26:02,460
But we do know, that they

815
00:26:02,460 --> 00:26:05,640
certainly met and the nature of

816
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,800
the conversation is public. What

817
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,690
exactly was said is, is not?

818
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,670
And of course, I mean, at this

819
00:26:11,670 --> 00:26:12,960
point, maybe it makes sense to

820
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,430
just throw out some of those

821
00:26:14,430 --> 00:26:16,020
connections that I think

822
00:26:16,020 --> 00:26:17,310
everyone's heard by now. But it

823
00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:19,440
makes sense to mention here I

824
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,090
believe, which would be that,

825
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,040
you know, Alameda one of the key

826
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,750
figures in the Alameda collapse.

827
00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:28,920
Caroline Ellison. Interestingly

828
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,360
enough, she went to Stanford,

829
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,610
where Sam Venkman Freed's both

830
00:26:32,610 --> 00:26:33,540
of his parents are law

831
00:26:33,540 --> 00:26:36,750
professors at Stanford. And then

832
00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:37,770
Sam bank, been freed went to

833
00:26:37,770 --> 00:26:40,980
MIT, where Caroline Ellison's

834
00:26:40,980 --> 00:26:42,660
father is, I believe, the chair

835
00:26:42,660 --> 00:26:44,460
of the Economics Department at

836
00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:45,930
something like that. Yeah. And

837
00:26:45,930 --> 00:26:47,760
then, of course, Gary Gensler

838
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,740
was at MIT for a period of time

839
00:26:49,980 --> 00:26:52,140
involved with I believe that

840
00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:54,780
MIT's digital currency

841
00:26:54,780 --> 00:26:56,100
initiative or something like

842
00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:58,980
that, so yeah, I mean, it's just

843
00:26:59,190 --> 00:27:03,300
a strange, very incestuous, some

844
00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:04,800
FET family connections there.

845
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:05,970
And of course, there, there's

846
00:27:06,090 --> 00:27:07,560
there comes up Gary Gensler. And

847
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,420
then, as Marty mentioned, that

848
00:27:09,420 --> 00:27:10,560
they were working on some sort

849
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,810
of a carve out at CES for FTX.

850
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:14,940
It's it's certainly worth

851
00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:16,560
noting, and people can come to

852
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:17,520
their own conclusions about

853
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,330
that, but it's certainly

854
00:27:18,330 --> 00:27:18,750
interesting.

855
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:19,800
Yeah. And then we have the

856
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,270
situation where this

857
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,830
legislation, I guess it's in the

858
00:27:22,830 --> 00:27:24,270
Senate right now, I'm not really

859
00:27:24,270 --> 00:27:25,560
sure which house of Congress is

860
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:26,760
dealing with it, but it was a

861
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,530
bill related to regulation of

862
00:27:28,530 --> 00:27:31,980
the crypto industry, and FB SPF

863
00:27:31,980 --> 00:27:33,450
was very involved in drafting

864
00:27:33,450 --> 00:27:35,160
it. And despite everything

865
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,810
that's exploded around FTX, in

866
00:27:36,810 --> 00:27:38,670
this guy's reputation, over the

867
00:27:38,670 --> 00:27:40,710
past couple of weeks, just a few

868
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:41,670
days ago, they announced they're

869
00:27:41,670 --> 00:27:42,570
still going to roll with it,

870
00:27:42,570 --> 00:27:43,440
they're not going to make major

871
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:44,250
changes, they're not going to

872
00:27:44,250 --> 00:27:45,900
scrap it, they're gonna, you

873
00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:48,120
know, roll ahead with a bill

874
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:49,350
that was partially written by a

875
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:50,760
guy behind a massive Ponzi

876
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,120
scheme to regulate the industry

877
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:55,440
in which he conducted his Ponzi

878
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,910
scheme. It seems a little odd,

879
00:27:57,090 --> 00:27:58,350
right? And then you've seen Of

880
00:27:58,350 --> 00:27:59,700
course, we've all we've all seen

881
00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:01,230
the mat, the mainstream media,

882
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:03,060
articles and headlines trying to

883
00:28:03,060 --> 00:28:04,830
sort of say, mean, the narrative

884
00:28:04,830 --> 00:28:06,270
that's coalescing around this

885
00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:07,920
post, you know, exposure of this

886
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,440
Ponzi fraud is oh, he you know

887
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:11,790
what this guy still was JP

888
00:28:11,790 --> 00:28:12,630
Morgan. I think that was

889
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:13,830
actually a headline like,

890
00:28:14,340 --> 00:28:16,230
Kramer was calling.

891
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,100
Originally called him the modern

892
00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:21,540
day JP Morgan, right, which,

893
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:23,430
yeah, but But what I'm saying is

894
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:24,630
that then there was an article,

895
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:25,860
there was an article in The New

896
00:28:25,860 --> 00:28:27,300
York Times and said, despite

897
00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:28,620
what happened, I'm saying after

898
00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:30,540
he blew up, he's still like, a

899
00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:33,300
JP Morgan. So it's very, it's

900
00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:35,820
very bizarre. It's in this is

901
00:28:35,820 --> 00:28:38,160
where I don't I have conflicting

902
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,390
thoughts on this one, I don't

903
00:28:39,390 --> 00:28:40,320
know if Marty would want to

904
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,990
expand and sort of his views is

905
00:28:42,990 --> 00:28:44,700
he's more in the weeds of, of

906
00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:47,850
this industry, or than I am. But

907
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,980
I go back and forth with, you

908
00:28:49,980 --> 00:28:52,050
know, he was he was like this

909
00:28:52,050 --> 00:28:54,090
nuclear bomb that was meant to

910
00:28:54,090 --> 00:28:56,190
detonate inside of this industry

911
00:28:56,190 --> 00:28:58,770
and sort of caused so much

912
00:28:58,770 --> 00:28:59,790
damage that they could do

913
00:28:59,790 --> 00:29:00,750
whatever they wanted with

914
00:29:00,750 --> 00:29:02,310
regulation, sort of like the

915
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,620
equivalent of 911 in this

916
00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:06,480
industry. But then on the on the

917
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,240
flip side, it feels to me like

918
00:29:09,270 --> 00:29:10,980
it the plug was pulled early,

919
00:29:10,980 --> 00:29:12,480
you know that this whole thing

920
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,100
wasn't supposed to go down just

921
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:17,310
yet. And, and so it blew up on

922
00:29:17,310 --> 00:29:18,840
the timeline that I guess they

923
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,430
perhaps his handlers or others

924
00:29:20,430 --> 00:29:22,770
were not quite ready for. And

925
00:29:22,770 --> 00:29:23,550
that's how they're sort of

926
00:29:23,550 --> 00:29:25,170
responding. Right. So I don't

927
00:29:25,170 --> 00:29:26,940
know, I'm very conflicted on

928
00:29:26,940 --> 00:29:28,500
that. On that view. I clear. I

929
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:30,750
definitely think this was, you

930
00:29:30,750 --> 00:29:32,670
know, this entire thing was

931
00:29:32,970 --> 00:29:34,800
created intentionally for some

932
00:29:34,830 --> 00:29:36,510
major purpose, but I'm just not,

933
00:29:36,750 --> 00:29:38,850
I'm not clear in my own head as

934
00:29:38,850 --> 00:29:40,350
to whether he was supposed to

935
00:29:40,350 --> 00:29:42,030
blow up now or later. Do you

936
00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:42,810
have any thoughts on that,

937
00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:43,170
Marty?

938
00:29:43,260 --> 00:29:45,210
I think I think the fraud was

939
00:29:45,210 --> 00:29:47,310
definitely uncovered way earlier

940
00:29:47,820 --> 00:29:51,900
than they expected. Just seeing

941
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:53,520
how quickly it all unraveled,

942
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,800
and like you mentioned the

943
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,320
scramble to tighten up the

944
00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,790
narrative from the media's

945
00:29:59,790 --> 00:30:01,560
purse. Bective immediately after

946
00:30:03,330 --> 00:30:07,140
does seem a bit fishy, and I do

947
00:30:07,140 --> 00:30:09,060
believe that they were not ready

948
00:30:09,060 --> 00:30:10,560
for this fraud to be unraveled

949
00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:12,240
at this particular point in

950
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:18,810
time. In Yeah. In the con in to

951
00:30:18,810 --> 00:30:21,690
speak to OSPF and FTX being

952
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,650
assets of the state or some,

953
00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:29,640
some group that had an agenda. I

954
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,890
certainly think that is the case

955
00:30:31,890 --> 00:30:33,390
too, because when you add up all

956
00:30:33,780 --> 00:30:35,760
the inconsistencies around

957
00:30:35,940 --> 00:30:38,640
Alameda and FTX is history. And

958
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,530
again, you mentioned it earlier,

959
00:30:40,530 --> 00:30:42,150
Michael, but just the marketing

960
00:30:42,150 --> 00:30:44,250
budget alone, the fact that they

961
00:30:44,250 --> 00:30:45,300
were able to buy the naming

962
00:30:45,300 --> 00:30:46,920
rights to two stadiums that have

963
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,540
Superbowl commercials to have

964
00:30:48,540 --> 00:30:52,320
the FTX patch on the MLB umpires

965
00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:55,650
uniforms throughout the season,

966
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,440
they were sponsoring f1 as well

967
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,030
and had a large billboard

968
00:31:00,030 --> 00:31:01,980
campaign, and never really made

969
00:31:01,980 --> 00:31:04,890
sense to me. That they, they had

970
00:31:04,890 --> 00:31:06,480
the marketing budget that they

971
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,940
did. And like you mentioned,

972
00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:10,830
Michael, it seemed like, via

973
00:31:10,830 --> 00:31:12,720
that marketing budget, that the

974
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,460
powers that be whoever they are

975
00:31:14,460 --> 00:31:16,320
behind Alameda and FTX, were

976
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,680
trying to imbue a sense of

977
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,540
legitimacy that simply wasn't

978
00:31:21,540 --> 00:31:21,930
there.

979
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,490
Yeah, I mean, it's like pure

980
00:31:23,490 --> 00:31:24,750
hype at this point with what

981
00:31:24,750 --> 00:31:26,100
they were attempting to, you

982
00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:27,780
know, get people hooked on it.

983
00:31:27,780 --> 00:31:28,920
See, I don't know, I mean, it's

984
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,320
just a totally insane story. So

985
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:32,520
in terms of motives for

986
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,320
collusion there between FTX and

987
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:35,850
the state, or the people

988
00:31:35,850 --> 00:31:37,260
ultimately backing this

989
00:31:37,260 --> 00:31:39,600
enterprise. Do you think crypto

990
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,180
regulation, like a, you know,

991
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,520
forcing that through, which was

992
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,250
meant to be the main motive from

993
00:31:47,250 --> 00:31:49,200
the off? Or do we see any other

994
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,600
sort of, you know, reasons

995
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,060
behind, you know, the promotion

996
00:31:54,060 --> 00:31:55,500
of FTX and SPF at this

997
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:57,420
particular time? Aside from

998
00:31:57,420 --> 00:31:57,720
that?

999
00:31:57,780 --> 00:31:59,640
Yes, I mean, I think that's

1000
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,920
something Bitcoiners have been

1001
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,870
preparing for for some time. And

1002
00:32:03,900 --> 00:32:07,170
it seems that SPF and FTX were

1003
00:32:07,650 --> 00:32:10,080
the chosen vessel to bring about

1004
00:32:11,130 --> 00:32:12,180
what we've been warning about,

1005
00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:13,740
which is overbearing regulation,

1006
00:32:13,770 --> 00:32:15,750
that would make it significantly

1007
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:17,670
harder for individuals to use

1008
00:32:17,670 --> 00:32:20,760
Bitcoin. The way it was meant to

1009
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:21,840
be used in a peer to peer

1010
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,400
fashion. And it seemed like, SPF

1011
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:27,600
and FTX were lobbying

1012
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,000
particularly for stringent

1013
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,550
control around how individuals

1014
00:32:32,670 --> 00:32:33,810
interact with with

1015
00:32:33,810 --> 00:32:35,850
cryptocurrencies. And what he

1016
00:32:35,850 --> 00:32:38,760
was pushing for is that if

1017
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,080
people are using these things

1018
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,450
they should be if they should be

1019
00:32:42,450 --> 00:32:45,510
using them, via highly regulated

1020
00:32:45,510 --> 00:32:49,380
entities, like FTX. Enough more

1021
00:32:49,380 --> 00:32:50,550
free market options?

1022
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,550
Yeah. And I think also, for a

1023
00:32:53,550 --> 00:32:55,230
long time, we've been aware, you

1024
00:32:55,230 --> 00:32:55,920
know, people that are in the

1025
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,750
Bitcoin world, that one of the

1026
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:59,850
most effective attack vectors

1027
00:32:59,850 --> 00:33:02,040
for, you know, undermining,

1028
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,990
let's say, Bitcoin is an hour,

1029
00:33:04,020 --> 00:33:05,130
you know, the narrative, the big

1030
00:33:05,130 --> 00:33:06,480
narrative, the narrative push,

1031
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,090
and clearly FTX, as I said

1032
00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:10,410
earlier, he was like a lab

1033
00:33:10,410 --> 00:33:14,010
created, you know, entity that

1034
00:33:14,010 --> 00:33:17,070
would eventually morph, you

1035
00:33:17,070 --> 00:33:18,600
know, this cryptocurrency

1036
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,180
industry into, you know, more of

1037
00:33:21,180 --> 00:33:23,430
like a cbdc, you know, the Fiat

1038
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:25,590
world. Yeah. You know, sort of a

1039
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:27,960
thing. So, that to me, and also,

1040
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,730
let's not forget that one of his

1041
00:33:29,730 --> 00:33:31,320
big things was climate change

1042
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:32,370
right now, that could because

1043
00:33:32,370 --> 00:33:34,440
he's just, you know, supposedly,

1044
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,780
this like, incredibly selfless

1045
00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:38,220
guy who just wants to make the

1046
00:33:38,220 --> 00:33:38,910
world better,

1047
00:33:38,940 --> 00:33:40,200
you know, we'll get into that

1048
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,220
later. Right. But

1049
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,860
that right there, it's a clever

1050
00:33:43,860 --> 00:33:46,230
way to put the seed into Bitcoin

1051
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:47,850
is a problem, you know, because

1052
00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:49,950
they'll go into the whole mining

1053
00:33:49,950 --> 00:33:51,420
stuff. And that's been an attack

1054
00:33:51,420 --> 00:33:53,760
vector for a long time. And it's

1055
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,530
certainly ramping up now. And so

1056
00:33:55,530 --> 00:33:57,210
he was like a perfect kind of

1057
00:33:57,210 --> 00:33:59,700
guy to be in there, you know,

1058
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,890
wildly successful, one of the

1059
00:34:01,890 --> 00:34:03,930
biggest exchanges, he's, he's

1060
00:34:03,930 --> 00:34:05,520
connected with everyone. Oh,

1061
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:06,990
look, how he cares about the,

1062
00:34:06,990 --> 00:34:08,190
you know, he cares about saving

1063
00:34:08,190 --> 00:34:10,320
the world. And if this wonderful

1064
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,710
messiah of crypto, you know,

1065
00:34:13,860 --> 00:34:15,480
points out how bad and evil

1066
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,610
bitcoin is, in particular, that

1067
00:34:17,610 --> 00:34:19,230
that can go a long way into

1068
00:34:19,530 --> 00:34:21,360
infecting the minds of, you

1069
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:22,590
know, let's just say the average

1070
00:34:22,590 --> 00:34:24,270
person, and especially

1071
00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:26,580
regulators. So I definitely

1072
00:34:26,580 --> 00:34:28,920
think that was a part of part of

1073
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,180
what was going on here for sure.

1074
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:32,430
Yeah. So I think one angle that

1075
00:34:32,430 --> 00:34:33,570
I haven't seen talked about very

1076
00:34:33,570 --> 00:34:34,440
much, but I think is very

1077
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,300
telling to the overall purpose

1078
00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:38,670
behind this op of FTX. And Sam

1079
00:34:38,670 --> 00:34:42,390
Venkman. Fried is related to his

1080
00:34:42,510 --> 00:34:44,490
his desire, I forget where I

1081
00:34:44,490 --> 00:34:45,300
read this, it might have been

1082
00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:46,740
that deleted Sequoia Capital

1083
00:34:46,740 --> 00:34:49,560
article, he talked about, in

1084
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,690
some past interview, his desire

1085
00:34:51,690 --> 00:34:53,490
to have FTX become the

1086
00:34:53,820 --> 00:34:55,680
everything app. And to me,

1087
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,720
that's a very telling term,

1088
00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,520
right? Because we've also heard

1089
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:00,960
Elon Musk Last Great when he

1090
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,250
bought Twitter talk about

1091
00:35:02,250 --> 00:35:03,870
turning Twitter into the

1092
00:35:03,870 --> 00:35:05,760
everything at modeling it after

1093
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,830
WeChat. And so in China WeChat.

1094
00:35:07,830 --> 00:35:10,860
Right is the most dominant app,

1095
00:35:10,860 --> 00:35:13,650
you use it for everything. It's

1096
00:35:13,650 --> 00:35:15,210
you know, it's social media, but

1097
00:35:15,210 --> 00:35:16,290
it's also tied up with your

1098
00:35:16,290 --> 00:35:18,660
finances, it's tied up with all

1099
00:35:18,660 --> 00:35:20,040
different aspects of your life,

1100
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,830
not unlike the digital ID system

1101
00:35:22,830 --> 00:35:24,300
that's being piloted in

1102
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:25,950
different areas of the west

1103
00:35:25,950 --> 00:35:27,210
right now. And as part of this

1104
00:35:27,210 --> 00:35:29,250
broader, you know, control grid

1105
00:35:29,250 --> 00:35:30,240
of which the central bank

1106
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:32,280
digital currency cbdc is planned

1107
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,660
to be part. And that's why I

1108
00:35:33,660 --> 00:35:35,310
think it's interesting use SPF,

1109
00:35:35,310 --> 00:35:36,600
right, he's in FTX, they're

1110
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:37,560
having like this crypto

1111
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:38,820
conference down where they're

1112
00:35:38,820 --> 00:35:39,870
based in the Bahamas, and they

1113
00:35:39,870 --> 00:35:41,070
have someone like Tony Blair,

1114
00:35:41,070 --> 00:35:43,020
come down, who's a huge

1115
00:35:43,020 --> 00:35:45,150
proponent of this system going

1116
00:35:45,150 --> 00:35:48,090
back decades. And is currently

1117
00:35:48,090 --> 00:35:50,100
you know, through his NGO, I

1118
00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:51,090
forget what it's called, like

1119
00:35:51,090 --> 00:35:52,830
the Blair Institute for Global

1120
00:35:52,830 --> 00:35:54,420
change, or some crap like that

1121
00:35:54,660 --> 00:35:56,310
has been pushing really hard for

1122
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:57,750
digital ideas more than ever.

1123
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:59,370
And so, you know, you the

1124
00:35:59,370 --> 00:36:01,530
everything app is definitely you

1125
00:36:01,530 --> 00:36:04,590
know, the model that a lot of

1126
00:36:04,620 --> 00:36:05,610
you know, the people pushing

1127
00:36:05,610 --> 00:36:07,560
this type of technocratic agenda

1128
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,530
are looking to sort of segue us

1129
00:36:10,530 --> 00:36:12,480
as a segue for people into this

1130
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,760
particular control system, you

1131
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,080
know, oh, look how convenient

1132
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,640
this app is, and sort of sell it

1133
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,140
that way. And he seemed to have

1134
00:36:19,140 --> 00:36:20,550
had the backing to be the

1135
00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:21,900
everything app. And as we'll

1136
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:23,430
talk about later, you know, even

1137
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:25,560
Elon Musk has some sort of weird

1138
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,120
intersections with the movement

1139
00:36:27,660 --> 00:36:29,550
behind SBF. This effective

1140
00:36:29,550 --> 00:36:32,100
altruist movement, to varying

1141
00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:34,800
degrees. And it's just I think

1142
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,230
that's sort of pretty telling if

1143
00:36:37,230 --> 00:36:39,960
true that, you know, he Well,

1144
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:41,850
not it is true that SPF said

1145
00:36:41,850 --> 00:36:43,050
that that was his ambition for

1146
00:36:43,050 --> 00:36:44,640
FTX to have it be the everything

1147
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:45,750
out, but he had a lot of

1148
00:36:46,260 --> 00:36:48,270
prominent, you know, venture

1149
00:36:48,270 --> 00:36:50,790
capital funds and other very

1150
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:53,490
powerful people in the DNC even

1151
00:36:53,490 --> 00:36:55,590
I guess, you know, very much

1152
00:36:55,590 --> 00:36:56,790
behind him, or he was at least

1153
00:36:56,820 --> 00:36:59,250
heavily cultivating him very

1154
00:36:59,250 --> 00:37:01,230
much positioning FTX to become

1155
00:37:01,230 --> 00:37:03,360
that dominant, everything app

1156
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:04,950
and sort of usher in this new

1157
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,000
paradigm of money, you know, as

1158
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,830
they're trying to get the CBDCs

1159
00:37:10,830 --> 00:37:12,450
off the ground. Yeah,

1160
00:37:12,450 --> 00:37:14,700
I just quickly add to that, I do

1161
00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:16,800
think again, it feels without a

1162
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,010
doubt that SPF and FTX word, you

1163
00:37:20,010 --> 00:37:21,270
know, meant to be some sort of a

1164
00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:22,650
bridge. And that's what I think

1165
00:37:22,650 --> 00:37:23,790
Marty said that the, you know,

1166
00:37:23,790 --> 00:37:25,200
they blew up sooner than they

1167
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,570
were supposed. Yeah. It seems

1168
00:37:27,570 --> 00:37:29,220
like that was not, you know,

1169
00:37:29,220 --> 00:37:29,790
what I mean, they hadn't

1170
00:37:29,790 --> 00:37:31,800
finished that yet. It was, there

1171
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,840
was more to be done to

1172
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:38,040
transition. This, the, maybe the

1173
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,360
maybe the world, you know, into

1174
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,010
into a new way of thinking with

1175
00:37:41,010 --> 00:37:43,260
new regulations, and trap them.

1176
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,170
And that's where the FTX budget

1177
00:37:46,170 --> 00:37:47,460
comes, came into effect again,

1178
00:37:47,460 --> 00:37:48,810
like, how did it grow that fast?

1179
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:50,070
Yeah,

1180
00:37:50,220 --> 00:37:51,450
so this kind of makes me wonder,

1181
00:37:51,450 --> 00:37:52,650
too, if, you know, maybe the

1182
00:37:52,650 --> 00:37:54,330
people that helped pull the plug

1183
00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:58,110
on SPF and FTX. They themselves

1184
00:37:58,110 --> 00:37:59,850
wanted to be the everything app,

1185
00:37:59,850 --> 00:38:00,960
right. And, and so there's sort

1186
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,490
of like infighting over who gets

1187
00:38:02,490 --> 00:38:03,660
to, like, control that because

1188
00:38:03,660 --> 00:38:04,650
obviously, you know, if you get

1189
00:38:04,650 --> 00:38:06,570
to be the person that runs and

1190
00:38:06,570 --> 00:38:07,590
gets all the data from that,

1191
00:38:07,590 --> 00:38:08,760
like, you're really securing

1192
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,120
your position. In the future, if

1193
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,440
this, you know, technocracy

1194
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,030
really takes off and takes hold,

1195
00:38:15,060 --> 00:38:16,590
which, you know, of course, we

1196
00:38:16,590 --> 00:38:17,880
hope it does not, but these

1197
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,020
people are planning, you know,

1198
00:38:19,020 --> 00:38:20,760
for it, obviously. So if you can

1199
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,710
have be the person in charge of

1200
00:38:22,710 --> 00:38:24,540
that, you know, app that's like,

1201
00:38:24,570 --> 00:38:26,220
ultimate power in this in this

1202
00:38:26,220 --> 00:38:28,260
type of society, into which

1203
00:38:28,260 --> 00:38:29,910
we're being ushered in. So it

1204
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:30,930
would make sense to me to have

1205
00:38:30,930 --> 00:38:32,130
different factions trying to

1206
00:38:32,130 --> 00:38:33,390
duke it out for who's gonna get

1207
00:38:33,390 --> 00:38:36,840
to be the, you know, have that

1208
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,460
power and have that data over

1209
00:38:38,460 --> 00:38:39,720
people's lives. Yeah. And

1210
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:40,770
it could even be the, you know,

1211
00:38:40,770 --> 00:38:41,970
the some elements of the state

1212
00:38:41,970 --> 00:38:43,320
itself, you know, in the sense

1213
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,810
that come in and say, we'll see,

1214
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:46,830
yeah, we still need in

1215
00:38:46,830 --> 00:38:48,240
everything out, but we can't

1216
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,070
have these row crazy, you know,

1217
00:38:50,070 --> 00:38:51,660
capitalists do it, we need to,

1218
00:38:51,690 --> 00:38:52,890
you know, we need it needs to be

1219
00:38:52,890 --> 00:38:53,490
government

1220
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,140
run, or the UN.

1221
00:38:57,450 --> 00:38:59,070
They're not giving up on you

1222
00:38:59,070 --> 00:39:00,840
know, this this this agenda.

1223
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,820
It's anything more like, oh,

1224
00:39:02,820 --> 00:39:04,410
well, he just didn't you know,

1225
00:39:04,410 --> 00:39:05,820
it hasn't been tried yet. Hasn't

1226
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,380
hasn't been done properly. Yeah,

1227
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,090
yeah. But every time these days,

1228
00:39:09,090 --> 00:39:10,440
I hear someone talk about the

1229
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,240
everything app, I definitely,

1230
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,280
like, pay attention, because

1231
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,110
that's part of where this agenda

1232
00:39:16,110 --> 00:39:17,070
is going. I think that's how

1233
00:39:17,070 --> 00:39:18,930
they're gonna get people try to

1234
00:39:18,930 --> 00:39:20,700
get people hooked on it. And

1235
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:21,960
maybe what they were going to do

1236
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,280
here was trying to make, you

1237
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,200
know, promote FTX create this

1238
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:26,490
everything app, get a bunch of

1239
00:39:26,490 --> 00:39:28,200
people on it. And then you know,

1240
00:39:28,470 --> 00:39:30,120
as other economic stuff

1241
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,650
unravels, and it's easier to

1242
00:39:31,650 --> 00:39:33,720
blame that, you know, for the

1243
00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:35,010
fraud that was already going on

1244
00:39:35,010 --> 00:39:36,780
in FTX. That was exposed early,

1245
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:38,400
right? And then sort of be like,

1246
00:39:38,430 --> 00:39:39,720
Oh, well, how convenient. We

1247
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:40,770
have all this infrastructure

1248
00:39:40,770 --> 00:39:41,880
here. And we can just replace

1249
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,490
you know, our crappy FTT token

1250
00:39:44,490 --> 00:39:45,300
with the I don't know the

1251
00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:47,700
digital dollar USDC or something

1252
00:39:47,700 --> 00:39:48,450
like that. You know,

1253
00:39:48,540 --> 00:39:50,490
it's really interesting that

1254
00:39:50,490 --> 00:39:51,120
we're talking about this

1255
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,010
everything app and you have TX

1256
00:39:53,490 --> 00:39:55,440
blow up happen. And then only a

1257
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,000
few days after the blow up

1258
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,130
happened, the Fed announces that

1259
00:39:59,130 --> 00:40:00,360
they're piloting it A digital

1260
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:01,740
dollar campaign with a bunch of

1261
00:40:01,740 --> 00:40:03,330
the banks here in the United

1262
00:40:03,330 --> 00:40:04,380
States. So maybe that's an

1263
00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:06,330
opportunity to say, hey, this

1264
00:40:06,330 --> 00:40:07,680
crazy kid in the Bahamas can't

1265
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,000
run this app, and maybe maybe

1266
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,320
the Federal Reserve and our

1267
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:11,760
consortium of banks needs to.

1268
00:40:11,970 --> 00:40:13,650
Did you see, I just want we can

1269
00:40:13,650 --> 00:40:14,910
go into this more later. But

1270
00:40:15,150 --> 00:40:16,440
there were messages released

1271
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,600
between McCaskill and Elon Musk,

1272
00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:21,540
where he was trying to push SPF

1273
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,300
into being going in with Musk to

1274
00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:26,250
buy Twitter. So that's very

1275
00:40:26,250 --> 00:40:27,240
interesting as well.

1276
00:40:27,810 --> 00:40:29,730
Wow. Yeah. Well, I think we'll

1277
00:40:29,730 --> 00:40:31,170
be getting to Yeah, exactly.

1278
00:40:31,170 --> 00:40:32,670
We'll get the effect of altruism

1279
00:40:32,700 --> 00:40:34,890
and EA pretty soon here. But I

1280
00:40:34,890 --> 00:40:36,300
think before we do that, we've

1281
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:37,530
brought up a couple of times

1282
00:40:37,530 --> 00:40:40,200
this, these narratives being

1283
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,480
pushed about SPF both before and

1284
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:43,980
after the collapse. And we've

1285
00:40:43,980 --> 00:40:45,240
already talked about a bit what

1286
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:46,500
it seems like he was probably

1287
00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:49,200
possibly being groomed for and

1288
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:50,070
some of the other things here

1289
00:40:50,070 --> 00:40:51,030
we're talking about the climate

1290
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:54,750
connection. But we also so first

1291
00:40:54,750 --> 00:40:56,430
off, I want to talk about just

1292
00:40:56,430 --> 00:40:57,960
briefly some of the insane

1293
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,190
narratives that are coming about

1294
00:40:59,370 --> 00:41:00,810
mainstream media not just about

1295
00:41:00,810 --> 00:41:02,400
sandbank Ben free, but also like

1296
00:41:02,580 --> 00:41:04,140
Carolyn Ellison and some of the

1297
00:41:04,140 --> 00:41:06,660
other big names here. Because, I

1298
00:41:06,660 --> 00:41:08,040
mean, they're pretty insane. And

1299
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,450
I also after that want to talk

1300
00:41:09,450 --> 00:41:11,250
about some of just briefly some

1301
00:41:11,250 --> 00:41:12,630
of his family connections, so

1302
00:41:12,630 --> 00:41:14,370
his parents and his brother,

1303
00:41:15,090 --> 00:41:17,040
before we get into Effective

1304
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,600
Altruism, and William McCaskill.

1305
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,490
So to start off on that, I would

1306
00:41:20,490 --> 00:41:21,690
definitely like to point out

1307
00:41:21,690 --> 00:41:23,070
that Forbes had this insane

1308
00:41:23,070 --> 00:41:24,840
article about Caroline Ellison,

1309
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:26,010
who again, we've mentioned a few

1310
00:41:26,010 --> 00:41:28,680
times was in charge of this, an

1311
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,520
Alameda side of FTX, the trading

1312
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,950
firm, and didn't really know

1313
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:37,410
very much about trading at all.

1314
00:41:37,590 --> 00:41:39,660
And when asked if, you know, she

1315
00:41:39,660 --> 00:41:41,520
could, you know, her advice

1316
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:42,810
about like, bad trades or

1317
00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:43,920
anything like that. She couldn't

1318
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:45,390
like recall details of any

1319
00:41:45,390 --> 00:41:47,160
relevant trade she'd ever made.

1320
00:41:47,790 --> 00:41:49,650
Like the I don't know. I mean,

1321
00:41:49,650 --> 00:41:50,490
it's really crazy. A lot of

1322
00:41:50,490 --> 00:41:51,630
these current clips are going,

1323
00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:54,420
you know, around Twitter and in

1324
00:41:54,420 --> 00:41:55,620
social media right now, but this

1325
00:41:55,620 --> 00:41:57,660
Forbes article framed her as,

1326
00:41:57,660 --> 00:41:59,580
among other things, a darling of

1327
00:41:59,580 --> 00:42:03,000
the alt right. Is the narrative

1328
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,440
being out supposedly, because

1329
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,540
like Curtis, some Curtis Yoruban

1330
00:42:06,540 --> 00:42:08,460
followers have created a cult

1331
00:42:08,460 --> 00:42:09,900
about her called like Queen,

1332
00:42:09,900 --> 00:42:11,910
they call her Queen Carolyn. And

1333
00:42:11,910 --> 00:42:12,930
this is the type of stuff that

1334
00:42:12,930 --> 00:42:14,040
they're trying to focus on,

1335
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,300
instead of like the obvious

1336
00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:17,640
fraud, and some of the other

1337
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:18,870
connections like her father's

1338
00:42:18,870 --> 00:42:19,800
apparent connection that you

1339
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:20,790
mentioned, you guys mentioned

1340
00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:23,250
earlier to Gary Gensler, among

1341
00:42:23,250 --> 00:42:24,300
other things, and then you have

1342
00:42:24,330 --> 00:42:25,770
the New York Times covering this

1343
00:42:25,770 --> 00:42:26,910
and they don't, they're talking

1344
00:42:26,910 --> 00:42:27,960
about sandbank Ben freeze, they

1345
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,030
don't mention fraud at all.

1346
00:42:30,030 --> 00:42:31,080
They're basically like, Oh,

1347
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:32,370
these are millennial kids that

1348
00:42:32,370 --> 00:42:33,570
were just totally out of their

1349
00:42:33,570 --> 00:42:35,160
depth. And, you know, the more

1350
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,030
evidence that comes out,

1351
00:42:36,030 --> 00:42:37,170
especially from the guy who's in

1352
00:42:37,170 --> 00:42:38,790
charge of FTX now and trying to

1353
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:40,230
clean up the mess the best, it's

1354
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:42,630
like, it definitely seems like

1355
00:42:42,780 --> 00:42:46,260
that cannot possibly have been

1356
00:42:46,260 --> 00:42:47,700
so why is mainstream media

1357
00:42:47,700 --> 00:42:48,960
rolling with this narrative?

1358
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,720
That's just so divorced from

1359
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:52,290
reality?

1360
00:42:52,770 --> 00:42:55,590
Yeah, the, the alt right article

1361
00:42:55,590 --> 00:42:57,240
that Forbes wrote, if you

1362
00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:00,930
actually like, dig into the

1363
00:43:00,930 --> 00:43:04,260
roots of that narrative, the the

1364
00:43:04,260 --> 00:43:07,170
author of that article, DM,

1365
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:08,610
somebody who is associated with

1366
00:43:08,610 --> 00:43:10,320
urbit, which is the project that

1367
00:43:10,350 --> 00:43:12,390
Curtis er been started since

1368
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:14,850
left, but it's pretty obvious

1369
00:43:14,850 --> 00:43:17,040
that the individual was trolling

1370
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,900
her, like, hey, you know, we

1371
00:43:18,900 --> 00:43:20,400
call her Queen Caroline here.

1372
00:43:20,490 --> 00:43:22,680
And she took that and ran with

1373
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,820
it. In the Forbes article. On an

1374
00:43:26,820 --> 00:43:29,610
attempt to distract from the

1375
00:43:29,610 --> 00:43:33,810
overt fraud and the weird

1376
00:43:33,810 --> 00:43:34,770
connections, it's

1377
00:43:34,770 --> 00:43:36,540
been happening a lot though,

1378
00:43:36,570 --> 00:43:38,040
just in the past few days, like

1379
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,600
a big playing off of sort of

1380
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,160
these salacious bits that have

1381
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,590
popped up with the story. It's

1382
00:43:43,590 --> 00:43:44,730
very, it's very much what was

1383
00:43:44,730 --> 00:43:45,930
done with Jeffrey Epstein.

1384
00:43:45,930 --> 00:43:47,040
Right. Just focus on the

1385
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,270
salacious bits that grab

1386
00:43:48,270 --> 00:43:49,680
people's attention and ignore,

1387
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,210
like a lot of the actual crimes

1388
00:43:51,210 --> 00:43:53,070
that aren't being prosecuted at

1389
00:43:53,070 --> 00:43:57,210
all, you know, yeah. I mean, I

1390
00:43:57,210 --> 00:43:59,010
don't know, like Bernie Madoff,

1391
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:00,360
when he got exposed for fraud,

1392
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:01,320
wasn't he like arrested

1393
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,230
immediately. And, you know, Sam

1394
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:06,450
bank been free Caroline Ellison,

1395
00:44:06,450 --> 00:44:07,560
Ryan, Salomon, and all these

1396
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:08,580
other guys, nothing's happened

1397
00:44:08,580 --> 00:44:10,200
to them. They're just let's wait

1398
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:10,830
and see.

1399
00:44:11,189 --> 00:44:12,959
Right, which again, goes back to

1400
00:44:12,959 --> 00:44:15,059
this, this, this over whelming

1401
00:44:15,059 --> 00:44:17,339
feeling that, you know, these

1402
00:44:17,369 --> 00:44:19,619
this entity and what it was

1403
00:44:19,619 --> 00:44:22,079
supposed to achieve, it got, you

1404
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:24,059
know, it got cut short in some

1405
00:44:24,059 --> 00:44:25,889
way that's bothersome to people

1406
00:44:25,889 --> 00:44:28,499
that essentially have the

1407
00:44:28,499 --> 00:44:30,749
ability to frame the mainstream

1408
00:44:30,749 --> 00:44:32,669
narrative. You know, one thing

1409
00:44:32,669 --> 00:44:36,029
that is very interesting that

1410
00:44:36,029 --> 00:44:37,379
you pointed out about Caroline,

1411
00:44:37,439 --> 00:44:38,639
you know, to the point that you

1412
00:44:38,639 --> 00:44:40,079
know, is she acting when she

1413
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:41,339
just acts this clueless, and it

1414
00:44:41,339 --> 00:44:42,629
doesn't seem like she is you

1415
00:44:42,629 --> 00:44:44,279
know, it's like she's that

1416
00:44:44,279 --> 00:44:47,069
clueless. But if you really

1417
00:44:47,069 --> 00:44:48,779
think about it, if this whole

1418
00:44:48,779 --> 00:44:51,839
thing was never meant to be a

1419
00:44:51,839 --> 00:44:55,529
serious exchange, it was meant

1420
00:44:55,529 --> 00:44:57,239
for something else, then it sort

1421
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:58,439
of makes sense to have someone

1422
00:44:58,439 --> 00:44:59,999
like Caroline there because she

1423
00:44:59,999 --> 00:45:01,289
she's never gonna, you know,

1424
00:45:01,319 --> 00:45:03,479
she's never going to realize how

1425
00:45:03,509 --> 00:45:04,739
messed up things are even that

1426
00:45:04,739 --> 00:45:06,119
she's potentially being used.

1427
00:45:06,359 --> 00:45:08,189
She's, she's someone that

1428
00:45:08,189 --> 00:45:09,299
actually knows what they're

1429
00:45:09,299 --> 00:45:10,589
doing or has experienced is

1430
00:45:10,589 --> 00:45:11,579
gonna go in there and in two

1431
00:45:11,579 --> 00:45:13,079
seconds just be like, what come

1432
00:45:13,079 --> 00:45:14,489
out of here, you know. So she

1433
00:45:14,489 --> 00:45:15,719
was actually in some ways

1434
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,089
perfect for for her position.

1435
00:45:18,089 --> 00:45:19,229
You know, she she thought she

1436
00:45:19,229 --> 00:45:21,719
was a special and super smart

1437
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,489
and you know, destined to be

1438
00:45:23,489 --> 00:45:25,289
this queen of trading. And, you

1439
00:45:25,289 --> 00:45:27,779
know, I think that that in

1440
00:45:27,779 --> 00:45:30,689
itself maybe allowed us to go on

1441
00:45:30,749 --> 00:45:31,949
a little bit longer the fact

1442
00:45:31,949 --> 00:45:33,479
that she actually just, you

1443
00:45:33,479 --> 00:45:34,979
know, I had no idea what was

1444
00:45:34,979 --> 00:45:36,179
going on or where the money was

1445
00:45:36,179 --> 00:45:37,469
coming from or anything but sort

1446
00:45:37,469 --> 00:45:38,729
of enjoyed the ride. That's what

1447
00:45:38,729 --> 00:45:39,569
it seems like to me.

1448
00:45:39,780 --> 00:45:41,100
I think it is important to note

1449
00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:42,930
too, that Caroline wasn't always

1450
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,970
the CEO of Alameda, there's a

1451
00:45:44,970 --> 00:45:46,440
gentleman by the name of Sam

1452
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:49,620
trabuco, who was the CEO until

1453
00:45:49,620 --> 00:45:52,320
earlier this year. And he left

1454
00:45:53,310 --> 00:45:54,660
leaving her in charge, they

1455
00:45:54,660 --> 00:45:56,640
might have been co CEOs. But

1456
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,740
there was another individual who

1457
00:45:58,740 --> 00:46:01,050
was CEO of Alameda, or at least

1458
00:46:01,050 --> 00:46:07,500
Co Co Well, for the, for the for

1459
00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:10,620
like a large amount of time

1460
00:46:10,890 --> 00:46:12,480
since Alameda was launched and

1461
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:13,740
that Sam trabuco

1462
00:46:14,339 --> 00:46:15,449
right, and a few people, I

1463
00:46:15,449 --> 00:46:16,619
believe, not just him, but I

1464
00:46:16,619 --> 00:46:17,699
think there were several people

1465
00:46:17,699 --> 00:46:19,229
that sort of got out of Alameda

1466
00:46:19,679 --> 00:46:22,169
and FTX as well, like a few

1467
00:46:22,169 --> 00:46:23,819
months before, you know, sort of

1468
00:46:23,819 --> 00:46:25,409
like right before so that that

1469
00:46:25,409 --> 00:46:28,319
probably is worthy of some more

1470
00:46:28,319 --> 00:46:29,669
investigation from people as

1471
00:46:29,669 --> 00:46:30,809
well. And I think the group

1472
00:46:30,809 --> 00:46:33,029
trabuco was in that in that camp

1473
00:46:33,029 --> 00:46:35,129
like he left shortly before it

1474
00:46:35,129 --> 00:46:35,429
all blew

1475
00:46:35,430 --> 00:46:38,430
up. Yeah. So. So to end this,

1476
00:46:38,460 --> 00:46:40,080
this bit of it. So post

1477
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:41,730
collapse, it's pretty obvious

1478
00:46:41,730 --> 00:46:43,020
that the mainstream media sort

1479
00:46:43,020 --> 00:46:44,880
of stepping in to manage the

1480
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,450
reputation of SBF. And this is

1481
00:46:48,450 --> 00:46:49,410
weird to me, because like when

1482
00:46:49,410 --> 00:46:51,330
Epstein got outed, you know, and

1483
00:46:51,330 --> 00:46:52,380
in comparing, like the

1484
00:46:52,380 --> 00:46:53,940
similarities there, there was

1485
00:46:53,970 --> 00:46:55,140
agreement across the board that

1486
00:46:55,140 --> 00:46:56,460
he's a bad guy in a criminal,

1487
00:46:56,490 --> 00:46:57,870
right. And it was just like, you

1488
00:46:57,870 --> 00:46:59,550
know, they're covering up the

1489
00:46:59,550 --> 00:47:00,600
fact that he had a lot of

1490
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:01,650
supporters and a support

1491
00:47:01,650 --> 00:47:03,060
network. But with SPF, they're

1492
00:47:03,060 --> 00:47:05,070
just being like, Oh, forgive

1493
00:47:05,070 --> 00:47:07,080
him, for he was too young to

1494
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:08,430
know what he was doing. You

1495
00:47:08,430 --> 00:47:09,330
know, there's nothing about

1496
00:47:09,330 --> 00:47:11,400
like, he was a brazen criminal,

1497
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:12,360
and blah, blah, blah, and let's

1498
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:13,590
all distance ourselves from him.

1499
00:47:13,590 --> 00:47:15,930
Now. It's a, you know, a very

1500
00:47:15,930 --> 00:47:17,520
different strategy. And so I'm

1501
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,080
one I mean, I don't know what

1502
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,400
makes you think maybe we should

1503
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,710
look at his family a little, I

1504
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:24,240
guess, maybe, you know, there's

1505
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:25,440
some other connection there that

1506
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:26,700
might be helping him at this

1507
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:27,840
point with mainstream media or

1508
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:28,920
even beyond that. I mean, it's

1509
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,060
really hard to know, but it's

1510
00:47:30,060 --> 00:47:34,200
definitely bizarre that they're

1511
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:35,340
covering for him this

1512
00:47:35,340 --> 00:47:36,870
extensively, because it is, you

1513
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:38,580
know, pretty extensive.

1514
00:47:38,610 --> 00:47:39,660
You should should we just

1515
00:47:39,660 --> 00:47:40,350
mentioned, I don't know if

1516
00:47:40,350 --> 00:47:41,100
you're planning on doing it

1517
00:47:41,100 --> 00:47:42,720
later, but mentioned his parents

1518
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:44,310
real quick, and sort of, yeah,

1519
00:47:44,340 --> 00:47:47,340
let's go. So there's saw on his

1520
00:47:47,340 --> 00:47:49,020
side, right, there's, this is

1521
00:47:49,020 --> 00:47:50,070
well known, but we should put it

1522
00:47:50,070 --> 00:47:52,140
here. His mother, Barbara fried,

1523
00:47:53,250 --> 00:47:55,680
is a Stanford professor, as is

1524
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,500
his dad, Joe Joseph freed. Both

1525
00:47:58,500 --> 00:48:00,360
Stanford professors. She is part

1526
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:01,800
of an organization called Mind

1527
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:03,960
the Gap, which is concerned with

1528
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:05,430
raising money from Silicon

1529
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:07,230
Valley, wealthy people to

1530
00:48:07,260 --> 00:48:10,230
Democrats. So there's that. And

1531
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:12,180
his dad is an interesting figure

1532
00:48:12,180 --> 00:48:13,470
that I haven't looked into too

1533
00:48:13,470 --> 00:48:15,330
much. But the reason I want to

1534
00:48:15,330 --> 00:48:18,480
mention him is because he seems

1535
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,610
like he had some, like serious

1536
00:48:20,610 --> 00:48:22,530
involvement with FTX. Like, he

1537
00:48:22,530 --> 00:48:24,570
wasn't just this, um, the father

1538
00:48:24,570 --> 00:48:26,460
of SB. Yeah, he was he was

1539
00:48:26,460 --> 00:48:28,440
involved. So you know, you've

1540
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,990
got this Stanford Law professor,

1541
00:48:31,380 --> 00:48:34,020
Father, who also was involved

1542
00:48:34,020 --> 00:48:36,300
with tax legislation in the

1543
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:38,400
United States, I believe one of

1544
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,520
Elizabeth Warren's proposed tax

1545
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,920
bills, she actually celebrated

1546
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,420
the endorsement of Joseph

1547
00:48:45,420 --> 00:48:47,910
Venkman of the legislation. So

1548
00:48:47,910 --> 00:48:49,320
that's, you know, this is this

1549
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:50,760
is a this is a real figure out

1550
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,940
here. And again, he he was he's,

1551
00:48:53,970 --> 00:48:55,530
he's been seen in the Bahamas

1552
00:48:55,530 --> 00:48:57,750
with SPF and I don't know if

1553
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:59,010
it's regulators or other these

1554
00:48:59,010 --> 00:49:01,470
celebrities, but he was also

1555
00:49:01,470 --> 00:49:03,660
reportedly to be there now, as

1556
00:49:03,660 --> 00:49:05,370
they're winding it down the DAT.

1557
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:06,540
Yeah. So

1558
00:49:06,540 --> 00:49:10,170
here's. So he's an expert on tax

1559
00:49:10,170 --> 00:49:12,600
policy and securities, which

1560
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:14,130
according to the SEC, pretty

1561
00:49:14,130 --> 00:49:15,240
much all the crypto that was

1562
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:16,830
being traded by FTX they

1563
00:49:16,830 --> 00:49:18,900
classify as a security except

1564
00:49:18,900 --> 00:49:20,490
for Bitcoin, I guess which they

1565
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:21,630
Gary Gensler said they're going

1566
00:49:21,630 --> 00:49:23,610
to view as a commodity. But if

1567
00:49:23,610 --> 00:49:25,440
you look at his CV on Stanford,

1568
00:49:25,530 --> 00:49:26,520
and has like selected

1569
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,800
publications, a lot of focus on

1570
00:49:28,830 --> 00:49:31,410
tax shelters, so I'll just read

1571
00:49:31,410 --> 00:49:32,670
off a couple that are here

1572
00:49:32,700 --> 00:49:35,640
modeling the tax, shelter world

1573
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:38,100
substitutes for insider trading.

1574
00:49:39,450 --> 00:49:42,630
The in academics view of the tax

1575
00:49:42,660 --> 00:49:45,000
shelter battle, has California

1576
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:46,560
broken the tax shelter

1577
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,200
legislative logjam? You know,

1578
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:50,100
these are some of the things

1579
00:49:50,100 --> 00:49:51,300
that he has written about

1580
00:49:51,660 --> 00:49:54,900
relatively recently. According

1581
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:57,420
to his CV, just you know, worth

1582
00:49:57,420 --> 00:49:58,320
pointing that out, because you

1583
00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:59,730
know, Bahamas, the Caribbean in

1584
00:49:59,730 --> 00:50:01,860
general on, you know, tend to be

1585
00:50:01,860 --> 00:50:03,510
used very extensively in the

1586
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:04,890
offshore banking system.

1587
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,530
Yep. And then, of course, his

1588
00:50:07,530 --> 00:50:10,920
aunt as well. Linda fried. She

1589
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,930
is a I think she's the head of

1590
00:50:13,410 --> 00:50:14,730
health department at a

1591
00:50:14,730 --> 00:50:17,160
university. But she's also a

1592
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:19,920
part of the WTF. Not just a

1593
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,330
picture on the web, but she's

1594
00:50:21,330 --> 00:50:23,130
like, formally involved with the

1595
00:50:23,130 --> 00:50:24,090
web. So

1596
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:25,350
she's in charge of some kind, I

1597
00:50:25,350 --> 00:50:27,060
think the council on aging or

1598
00:50:27,060 --> 00:50:28,380
something like that. Yeah,

1599
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:29,610
that's right. So you know,

1600
00:50:29,610 --> 00:50:30,900
again, I mean, this this guy is

1601
00:50:30,900 --> 00:50:33,960
just, he's just hooked up all

1602
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:35,580
over the place. And that's just

1603
00:50:35,580 --> 00:50:37,230
this one guy. So yeah.

1604
00:50:37,290 --> 00:50:39,540
So there's also his brother. And

1605
00:50:39,540 --> 00:50:40,470
we might get to him here in a

1606
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:41,490
second when we talked about the

1607
00:50:41,490 --> 00:50:43,050
Effective Altruism movement

1608
00:50:43,050 --> 00:50:45,510
because of the pandemic funding

1609
00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:47,130
stuff. guarding against

1610
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,860
pandemics. Yeah. So anyway, and

1611
00:50:49,860 --> 00:50:51,150
I think he worked for Chuck

1612
00:50:51,150 --> 00:50:52,500
Schumer as well, if I'm not

1613
00:50:52,500 --> 00:50:54,720
mistaken, if that's the similar

1614
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:56,490
that his brother was working for

1615
00:50:56,490 --> 00:51:00,030
at one point. Yeah. Anyway. So I

1616
00:51:00,030 --> 00:51:01,290
think now it's probably time to

1617
00:51:01,290 --> 00:51:03,000
get into something I think all

1618
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,020
of us were really interested in

1619
00:51:04,020 --> 00:51:06,150
exploring on this podcast, which

1620
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:07,620
is the people that are

1621
00:51:07,620 --> 00:51:10,590
effectively behind SPF, which is

1622
00:51:10,620 --> 00:51:12,300
this effective altruists

1623
00:51:12,330 --> 00:51:14,160
movement, which is ostensibly

1624
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:15,840
led by William McCaskill. But if

1625
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:16,920
you look around, there's really

1626
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,650
supposed to be three, you know,

1627
00:51:19,650 --> 00:51:21,960
creators or co founders of this

1628
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:23,310
movement. So there's William

1629
00:51:23,310 --> 00:51:24,420
McCaskill, there's a guy named

1630
00:51:24,450 --> 00:51:26,190
Toby Ord, and then there's a

1631
00:51:26,610 --> 00:51:28,620
Australian guy named Peter

1632
00:51:28,620 --> 00:51:30,990
Singer. So I guess maybe we

1633
00:51:30,990 --> 00:51:32,220
should start off and say what

1634
00:51:32,220 --> 00:51:33,960
effectively what the effective

1635
00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:37,320
altruist idea ethos is supposed

1636
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,170
to be. And how William McCaskill

1637
00:51:40,170 --> 00:51:42,030
the you know, the face of it,

1638
00:51:42,060 --> 00:51:43,080
that's put out everywhere,

1639
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:44,340
because Toby ord and Peter

1640
00:51:44,340 --> 00:51:46,020
Singer aren't as much the face

1641
00:51:46,020 --> 00:51:46,980
of this movement, as as

1642
00:51:46,980 --> 00:51:49,710
McCaskill is, should talk about

1643
00:51:49,710 --> 00:51:50,880
a little bit about how, you

1644
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,800
know, it's quite apparent if you

1645
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,320
look at his activities in

1646
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:56,640
relation to SPF that he

1647
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,260
recruited SPF out of undergrad

1648
00:51:58,260 --> 00:52:00,330
at MIT, and basically guided his

1649
00:52:00,330 --> 00:52:01,800
whole career, including through

1650
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,660
FTX, and then had a role at FTX,

1651
00:52:03,660 --> 00:52:04,890
as well. So let's get into it.

1652
00:52:05,370 --> 00:52:07,530
Okay, I'll start here. This is

1653
00:52:07,530 --> 00:52:09,030
the area that I've been focused

1654
00:52:09,030 --> 00:52:11,580
on the most, because when I when

1655
00:52:11,580 --> 00:52:12,930
I sort of asked myself two

1656
00:52:12,930 --> 00:52:13,950
questions, you know, so what

1657
00:52:13,950 --> 00:52:15,780
were What do all roads lead back

1658
00:52:15,780 --> 00:52:17,850
to? Number one? And what is the

1659
00:52:17,850 --> 00:52:19,590
aspect of the story that the

1660
00:52:19,590 --> 00:52:22,110
media is focusing the least on

1661
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,840
comes to Effective Altruism, or

1662
00:52:24,870 --> 00:52:28,290
EA, which I'll try to summarize

1663
00:52:28,290 --> 00:52:30,420
as, as good as well as possible?

1664
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,130
I have tons of thoughts on this.

1665
00:52:32,130 --> 00:52:34,830
But essentially, if you, if the

1666
00:52:34,830 --> 00:52:37,290
social credit score world had a

1667
00:52:37,290 --> 00:52:39,210
philosophy, it would be

1668
00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:40,980
effective altruism, essentially,

1669
00:52:41,220 --> 00:52:43,710
I in a nutshell, It's concerned

1670
00:52:43,710 --> 00:52:45,660
with at least ostensibly doing

1671
00:52:45,660 --> 00:52:46,800
the most good for the most

1672
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,600
amount of people. But in

1673
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,670
practice, I think where this

1674
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:54,930
sort of forks from just all

1675
00:52:54,930 --> 00:52:56,280
sorts of different philosophies

1676
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:57,480
that have been around forever,

1677
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,580
is that these, this, this

1678
00:52:59,580 --> 00:53:01,410
network, or this organization

1679
00:53:01,410 --> 00:53:04,110
is, is obsessed with a

1680
00:53:04,110 --> 00:53:05,850
technocratic approach to it. So

1681
00:53:05,850 --> 00:53:07,080
in other words, it's almost as

1682
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,630
if, if you wanted to take the

1683
00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:11,460
idea of doing good or being an

1684
00:53:11,460 --> 00:53:13,680
ethical person, and then turn it

1685
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,900
into a hard science, that's

1686
00:53:15,900 --> 00:53:17,190
where it gets very dangerous,

1687
00:53:17,190 --> 00:53:19,500
because what these people claim

1688
00:53:20,010 --> 00:53:21,690
is essentially, that by using

1689
00:53:21,690 --> 00:53:24,660
technology and research, you can

1690
00:53:24,690 --> 00:53:28,500
determine what the most good is

1691
00:53:28,650 --> 00:53:31,110
in the world. And so it really,

1692
00:53:31,140 --> 00:53:33,360
it starts off on an individual

1693
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:34,980
level, it sounds fine, right? It

1694
00:53:34,980 --> 00:53:38,220
starts off with, oh, if I don't

1695
00:53:38,220 --> 00:53:40,050
have this beer tonight, and I

1696
00:53:40,050 --> 00:53:42,420
can, you know, put that $5

1697
00:53:42,450 --> 00:53:45,180
toward, you know, mosquito nets

1698
00:53:45,180 --> 00:53:46,920
in Africa, that's a moral

1699
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,120
choice, you know, I should make

1700
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:49,770
that choice every time, which is

1701
00:53:49,770 --> 00:53:50,910
fine, right? I mean, if you want

1702
00:53:50,910 --> 00:53:51,900
to have that, if you want to

1703
00:53:51,900 --> 00:53:52,860
make that decision on an

1704
00:53:52,860 --> 00:53:54,270
individual basis, that's fine.

1705
00:53:54,510 --> 00:53:57,330
But very quickly, it devolves

1706
00:53:57,330 --> 00:53:59,160
into, you know, which life is

1707
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:00,330
worth more than another, you

1708
00:54:00,330 --> 00:54:02,520
know, is is is it worth letting

1709
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,080
one life go in your neighborhood

1710
00:54:04,110 --> 00:54:05,610
to save five, you know, on

1711
00:54:05,610 --> 00:54:07,800
another continent, and so and so

1712
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,900
very, and by the way, they they

1713
00:54:09,900 --> 00:54:11,250
claim and they think that you

1714
00:54:11,250 --> 00:54:13,020
can have a like a hard science

1715
00:54:13,020 --> 00:54:13,980
around this, that you can

1716
00:54:14,610 --> 00:54:17,460
essentially figure out using a

1717
00:54:17,460 --> 00:54:19,530
computer and data, what the

1718
00:54:19,530 --> 00:54:21,180
right choice for everyone is

1719
00:54:22,170 --> 00:54:24,180
worth more, who gets to live and

1720
00:54:24,180 --> 00:54:25,740
who gets to die ultimately is

1721
00:54:25,740 --> 00:54:28,140
what is it sort of boils down to

1722
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,220
when the interesting are up to

1723
00:54:29,220 --> 00:54:31,110
you really quickly. Peter Singer

1724
00:54:31,140 --> 00:54:32,400
who's willing McCaskill is

1725
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,680
mentor, and one of the founding

1726
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,180
guys here was very

1727
00:54:36,180 --> 00:54:37,470
controversial, I think, in the

1728
00:54:37,470 --> 00:54:39,150
early 90s In the US, because he

1729
00:54:39,150 --> 00:54:41,400
argued in favor of infanticide

1730
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:42,750
that it would it was okay to

1731
00:54:42,750 --> 00:54:43,920
kill a baby as long as it was

1732
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,410
like under a month old, based on

1733
00:54:46,410 --> 00:54:48,150
his metrics about like, what

1734
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:49,650
constitutes a human which was

1735
00:54:49,650 --> 00:54:52,860
all based around preferences. So

1736
00:54:52,890 --> 00:54:54,150
if a baby doesn't show

1737
00:54:54,150 --> 00:54:56,640
preferences, you can just kill

1738
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:56,880
it.

1739
00:54:57,450 --> 00:54:58,890
Yeah, basically. And what

1740
00:54:58,890 --> 00:54:59,970
happens too, is it's inch

1741
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:01,500
Staying in. It just goes to show

1742
00:55:01,500 --> 00:55:04,380
how completely absurd this

1743
00:55:04,380 --> 00:55:06,300
philosophy gets when you when

1744
00:55:06,300 --> 00:55:07,650
you keep when you go beyond a

1745
00:55:07,650 --> 00:55:08,640
couple of steps from the

1746
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:09,720
individual how absurd it gets,

1747
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:11,730
you have some factions of EA

1748
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:14,580
that argue that life in the

1749
00:55:14,580 --> 00:55:16,500
developing world is worth more

1750
00:55:16,500 --> 00:55:17,550
than a life in the developed

1751
00:55:17,550 --> 00:55:19,020
world. And then you have another

1752
00:55:19,020 --> 00:55:21,060
faction that saying no, no, you

1753
00:55:21,060 --> 00:55:22,620
actually need to, you know, a

1754
00:55:22,620 --> 00:55:23,970
life in the developed world is

1755
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:25,080
worth much more than the

1756
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:26,820
developing world. So again, this

1757
00:55:26,850 --> 00:55:31,260
this goes right back to the idea

1758
00:55:31,380 --> 00:55:34,590
that a technocratic group using

1759
00:55:34,590 --> 00:55:38,010
technology will be able to to

1760
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,560
command the ethical choices of

1761
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:42,120
everybody or should be able to.

1762
00:55:42,660 --> 00:55:44,700
And and when you think about it,

1763
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,720
this is absolutely right. The

1764
00:55:48,870 --> 00:55:52,800
the end goal for the web for all

1765
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:54,240
of these like nefarious

1766
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:56,310
characters, the direction

1767
00:55:56,310 --> 00:55:57,300
they're trying to push us and

1768
00:55:57,300 --> 00:55:59,760
right. Because historically, you

1769
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,020
know, if you look at if you look

1770
00:56:01,020 --> 00:56:02,760
at sort of how we think about

1771
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,080
human behavior, we think of

1772
00:56:04,140 --> 00:56:05,190
there's certain things you

1773
00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:06,720
really shouldn't do, like Thou

1774
00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:08,400
shalt not kill things like that.

1775
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,080
And as long as you avoid those

1776
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:11,850
things, you know, you're you're

1777
00:56:11,850 --> 00:56:13,260
free to kind of live your life.

1778
00:56:13,650 --> 00:56:15,840
This Effective Altruism

1779
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,580
philosophy is the almost the

1780
00:56:17,580 --> 00:56:19,620
exact opposite. It's all about

1781
00:56:19,620 --> 00:56:21,360
telling people what they need to

1782
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:22,680
do, as opposed to do what they

1783
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,350
can't do. So again, back to this

1784
00:56:25,350 --> 00:56:26,820
is why it's so dangerous.

1785
00:56:26,820 --> 00:56:29,550
Because if this gets foothold in

1786
00:56:29,550 --> 00:56:30,690
the halls of power, which

1787
00:56:30,690 --> 00:56:32,730
clearly is the intent, it's,

1788
00:56:32,790 --> 00:56:34,740
it's, there's no step from that

1789
00:56:34,740 --> 00:56:37,170
to the social credit system. If

1790
00:56:37,170 --> 00:56:38,550
people are convinced that a

1791
00:56:38,550 --> 00:56:40,080
social credit system can spit

1792
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:41,850
out, you know what you need to

1793
00:56:41,850 --> 00:56:43,680
do, then you need to do that.

1794
00:56:43,710 --> 00:56:45,000
And if you don't, you're a bad

1795
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:46,470
person, because the computer

1796
00:56:46,470 --> 00:56:46,980
sets Oh,

1797
00:56:47,310 --> 00:56:49,110
yeah, it definitely has a lot of

1798
00:56:49,650 --> 00:56:51,180
issues with it, to say the very

1799
00:56:51,180 --> 00:56:52,740
least, but it's increasingly

1800
00:56:52,740 --> 00:56:53,850
looking like at least in the

1801
00:56:53,850 --> 00:56:55,440
case of SPF, who was poster

1802
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,030
child for it in terms of like,

1803
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:58,320
Look at this guy that was

1804
00:56:58,320 --> 00:56:59,850
originally an effective altruist

1805
00:56:59,850 --> 00:57:02,520
and made this pact to get ultra

1806
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,470
rich and then use give away a

1807
00:57:04,470 --> 00:57:05,580
bunch of his money for quote

1808
00:57:05,580 --> 00:57:07,230
unquote, good. But you know, a

1809
00:57:07,230 --> 00:57:09,960
lot of that that movement in

1810
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:11,460
earlier iterations in the quote

1811
00:57:11,460 --> 00:57:12,840
unquote, philanthropic world,

1812
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:13,590
you know, there's been this

1813
00:57:13,590 --> 00:57:17,250
effort to claim that impact

1814
00:57:17,250 --> 00:57:18,930
investing in philanthropy or

1815
00:57:18,930 --> 00:57:21,240
analogous or that altruism is

1816
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:22,770
impact investing and like

1817
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,470
blurring the lines between what

1818
00:57:25,470 --> 00:57:27,630
those mean, basically so you

1819
00:57:27,630 --> 00:57:29,520
know, a lot of you know, this

1820
00:57:29,550 --> 00:57:31,320
supposedly altruistic behavior,

1821
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:32,520
once you have a bunch of money,

1822
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,640
it's basically it's not exactly

1823
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:37,290
altruism, as most people would,

1824
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,360
would care to define it. All

1825
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:40,740
right, the average person would

1826
00:57:40,740 --> 00:57:42,480
define it, or even the term

1827
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:43,740
philanthropy. It's not really

1828
00:57:43,740 --> 00:57:45,750
that but it was definitely built

1829
00:57:45,780 --> 00:57:47,730
up a lot in the case of SPF and

1830
00:57:47,730 --> 00:57:48,720
you have this now deleted

1831
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,280
Sequoia Capital article. That's,

1832
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:51,900
I mean, it's totally insane. You

1833
00:57:51,900 --> 00:57:53,760
have this guy interviewing SPF,

1834
00:57:54,150 --> 00:57:55,860
SPF isn't even paying attention

1835
00:57:55,860 --> 00:57:56,820
to him, really, because he's

1836
00:57:56,820 --> 00:57:57,810
playing a video game and not

1837
00:57:57,810 --> 00:57:59,040
even looking at the guy why the

1838
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:00,600
guy is interviewing him. And

1839
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:02,400
then the journalist is just

1840
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,290
fawning over him. And then a few

1841
00:58:04,290 --> 00:58:05,730
lines after describing how this

1842
00:58:05,730 --> 00:58:07,710
guy just like, doesn't even

1843
00:58:07,950 --> 00:58:09,630
bother to, like, look him in the

1844
00:58:09,630 --> 00:58:11,250
eye, starts praising him and

1845
00:58:11,250 --> 00:58:12,690
being like, I really think he is

1846
00:58:12,690 --> 00:58:14,910
selfless. As everyone claims. I

1847
00:58:14,910 --> 00:58:16,260
can't shake this feeling that

1848
00:58:16,260 --> 00:58:18,450
he's just the selfless Christ

1849
00:58:18,450 --> 00:58:22,110
figure. And then SPF, apparently

1850
00:58:22,110 --> 00:58:23,490
I think in this Vox article, or

1851
00:58:23,490 --> 00:58:24,600
this recent interview, post

1852
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:25,770
collapse has basically said,

1853
00:58:25,770 --> 00:58:27,750
Yeah, I was kind of faking a lot

1854
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:30,090
of this altruism stuff. So the

1855
00:58:30,090 --> 00:58:31,320
question is, how many of these

1856
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:32,880
other people are faking the

1857
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,140
altruism stuff, and what else is

1858
00:58:34,140 --> 00:58:35,130
going on in this?

1859
00:58:36,060 --> 00:58:37,500
Well, considering the the

1860
00:58:37,500 --> 00:58:39,420
connections that that particular

1861
00:58:39,420 --> 00:58:42,180
Vox journalist has with the EA

1862
00:58:42,180 --> 00:58:45,270
movement and Parliament, the

1863
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:47,700
tenor, the tenor of that article

1864
00:58:47,700 --> 00:58:48,630
are some people that believe

1865
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:50,190
that that was like an overt

1866
00:58:50,190 --> 00:58:52,830
attempt to have SBF distanced

1867
00:58:52,830 --> 00:58:56,160
himself from the EA movement to

1868
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:57,510
make them look a little better

1869
00:58:57,540 --> 00:58:59,430
seemed like this was just one

1870
00:58:59,430 --> 00:59:00,900
bad apple that really didn't

1871
00:59:00,900 --> 00:59:05,040
believe it. But I think in the

1872
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:06,450
overarching discussion about

1873
00:59:06,450 --> 00:59:07,650
Effective Altruism, I think it

1874
00:59:07,650 --> 00:59:08,880
is really important to hone in

1875
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,770
on this particular detail of

1876
00:59:10,770 --> 00:59:12,630
Effective Altruism, which is

1877
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,330
essentially an extension of

1878
00:59:15,810 --> 00:59:17,970
utilitarianism, which Peter

1879
00:59:17,970 --> 00:59:19,530
Singer is the founder of that

1880
00:59:19,530 --> 00:59:21,780
philosophical belief where

1881
00:59:21,810 --> 00:59:26,010
school of thought I think the

1882
00:59:26,010 --> 00:59:28,080
iteration of Effective Altruism

1883
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:31,980
really focuses on acumen

1884
00:59:31,980 --> 00:59:33,210
accumulating as much wealth as

1885
00:59:33,210 --> 00:59:36,120
possible to dedicate to these

1886
00:59:36,540 --> 00:59:38,370
causes that they deem worthy

1887
00:59:38,790 --> 00:59:40,650
over others. So I think that's

1888
00:59:40,650 --> 00:59:42,060
the the iteration on

1889
00:59:42,090 --> 00:59:43,650
utilitarianism that Effective

1890
00:59:43,650 --> 00:59:45,210
Altruism brings, again, you

1891
00:59:45,210 --> 00:59:46,170
mentioned at the impact

1892
00:59:46,170 --> 00:59:48,090
investing, Whitney, because

1893
00:59:48,090 --> 00:59:49,110
these people want to get as rich

1894
00:59:49,110 --> 00:59:51,750
as possible and use the lion's

1895
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:53,880
share of their funds to bring

1896
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,010
about what they deemed to be the

1897
00:59:56,010 --> 00:59:59,610
most virtuous on the planet and

1898
00:59:59,610 --> 01:00:02,190
that again, is very elitist,

1899
01:00:02,190 --> 01:00:05,040
very technocratic. And I believe

1900
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,740
that is how McCaskill positions

1901
01:00:07,740 --> 01:00:09,120
Effective Altruism is like, hey,

1902
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:10,980
we believe that the planet is

1903
01:00:10,980 --> 01:00:12,540
going to have a trillion people

1904
01:00:13,050 --> 01:00:14,700
at some point in the future. And

1905
01:00:14,700 --> 01:00:15,930
so we have to think of those 8

1906
01:00:15,930 --> 01:00:18,960
trillion future humans and to

1907
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:20,160
make them as comfortable and

1908
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:21,870
well off as possible, we may

1909
01:00:21,870 --> 01:00:23,850
need to make some sacrifices

1910
01:00:23,850 --> 01:00:25,140
today with the people living on

1911
01:00:25,140 --> 01:00:26,040
the planet right now.

1912
01:00:26,100 --> 01:00:27,600
Yeah. So let's talk about

1913
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,450
McCaskill for a second and how

1914
01:00:30,450 --> 01:00:32,160
he views altruism. So I guess

1915
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:33,330
before we get into McCaskill

1916
01:00:33,330 --> 01:00:34,590
specifically, it's worth

1917
01:00:34,590 --> 01:00:35,760
pointing out that if you look at

1918
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,760
a lot of these organizations in

1919
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,830
the EAA movement, if you'd like

1920
01:00:40,830 --> 01:00:42,240
look at their finances, and who

1921
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:43,470
they're making grants to

1922
01:00:43,470 --> 01:00:45,480
ostensibly altruistic grants,

1923
01:00:46,020 --> 01:00:47,370
there's a lot of money passing

1924
01:00:47,370 --> 01:00:48,660
around between all these

1925
01:00:48,660 --> 01:00:49,860
different groups either tied to

1926
01:00:49,860 --> 01:00:52,050
McCaskill or tied to people that

1927
01:00:52,050 --> 01:00:53,610
are, you know, part of the close

1928
01:00:53,610 --> 01:00:55,710
knit power structure of this

1929
01:00:55,710 --> 01:00:57,060
movement. You know, they're

1930
01:00:57,060 --> 01:00:58,980
making grants to one and then

1931
01:00:58,980 --> 01:01:00,390
that one's making grants back to

1932
01:01:00,390 --> 01:01:02,490
the people that gave the grant

1933
01:01:02,490 --> 01:01:03,780
to them. And it's like, very

1934
01:01:03,780 --> 01:01:06,780
circular movement of money.

1935
01:01:07,050 --> 01:01:08,700
Just, you know, for a lot of

1936
01:01:08,700 --> 01:01:09,780
other people would look sort of,

1937
01:01:09,780 --> 01:01:11,550
like not so much like altruism,

1938
01:01:11,550 --> 01:01:13,440
but more like you're moving

1939
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,720
money around within, you know,

1940
01:01:15,990 --> 01:01:17,220
own movement, that's a good way

1941
01:01:17,220 --> 01:01:18,660
to cover up money laundering.

1942
01:01:19,140 --> 01:01:20,520
Just something FTX has been

1943
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:24,600
accused of, of enabling. Yeah,

1944
01:01:24,630 --> 01:01:25,830
anything you guys want to say on

1945
01:01:25,830 --> 01:01:26,940
that front, before we get into

1946
01:01:26,940 --> 01:01:28,470
McCaskill himself and who he is,

1947
01:01:28,620 --> 01:01:30,510
as it pertains to FTX. It seems

1948
01:01:30,510 --> 01:01:31,620
like they had a very similar

1949
01:01:31,620 --> 01:01:34,380
model, because they had 134

1950
01:01:34,380 --> 01:01:37,800
shell companies, as well, and to

1951
01:01:38,310 --> 01:01:39,780
essentially disguise the

1952
01:01:39,780 --> 01:01:42,600
movement of funds from FTX,

1953
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,160
Alameda and their other

1954
01:01:44,250 --> 01:01:46,800
associated subsidiaries.

1955
01:01:46,830 --> 01:01:48,570
Yeah, and you know, in that in

1956
01:01:48,570 --> 01:01:49,860
the Vox article, you mentioned,

1957
01:01:49,860 --> 01:01:52,590
Whitney, which was written by

1958
01:01:52,590 --> 01:01:54,690
another EA adherent who's Dylan

1959
01:01:54,690 --> 01:01:57,420
Matthews. And it's, in fact, you

1960
01:01:57,420 --> 01:01:58,590
know, sponsored by future

1961
01:01:58,590 --> 01:02:00,660
perfect, which is a project

1962
01:02:00,660 --> 01:02:02,730
within Vox that is specifically

1963
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:04,500
effective, altruistic, super

1964
01:02:04,500 --> 01:02:06,330
weird. He actually throws out

1965
01:02:06,330 --> 01:02:08,160
some figures as far as the, the

1966
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:09,960
money at the disposal of this

1967
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,150
network. And it's anywhere from

1968
01:02:12,150 --> 01:02:14,580
26 to 40. Something billion.

1969
01:02:14,970 --> 01:02:16,260
And, you know, this isn't just

1970
01:02:16,260 --> 01:02:17,190
stuff, you know, money that's

1971
01:02:17,190 --> 01:02:18,570
sitting in like EA bank

1972
01:02:18,570 --> 01:02:20,040
accounts, but what he's doing is

1973
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,410
he's taking some of the high

1974
01:02:22,410 --> 01:02:24,240
profile figures that are

1975
01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:26,730
publicly associated with this

1976
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:28,950
with this network and taking

1977
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:30,120
their networks into account,

1978
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:31,560
which is, which is probably

1979
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:32,520
fair, because a lot of these

1980
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:33,480
people are claiming that they're

1981
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:34,410
going to give away most of their

1982
01:02:34,410 --> 01:02:37,170
money. Yeah, I'm chomping at the

1983
01:02:37,170 --> 01:02:39,030
bit to go off on sort of

1984
01:02:39,030 --> 01:02:41,310
McCaskill and how he, how we

1985
01:02:41,310 --> 01:02:42,990
Yeah, SPF, if

1986
01:02:42,989 --> 01:02:44,039
you don't tell us tell us who

1987
01:02:44,039 --> 01:02:45,329
William McCaskill is, or at

1988
01:02:45,329 --> 01:02:47,039
least his cover story, I guess,

1989
01:02:47,069 --> 01:02:49,229
and his relationship with SPF.

1990
01:02:49,380 --> 01:02:52,710
Yeah, I think, if anything that

1991
01:02:52,710 --> 01:02:54,330
I want to get across on my end

1992
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,070
on this on this podcast is

1993
01:02:56,070 --> 01:02:57,810
William McCaskill, or you know,

1994
01:02:57,810 --> 01:02:59,310
his his birth name, apparently

1995
01:02:59,310 --> 01:03:01,140
it was William crouch, and he

1996
01:03:01,140 --> 01:03:02,520
took the knee McCaskill from

1997
01:03:02,670 --> 01:03:03,960
from his ex wife or something.

1998
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:05,910
It's bizarre to begin ex wife's

1999
01:03:05,910 --> 01:03:07,740
grandmother, oh, exploits

2000
01:03:07,740 --> 01:03:09,210
grandmother, right. So his, his

2001
01:03:09,210 --> 01:03:11,100
surname now is actually his ex

2002
01:03:11,100 --> 01:03:13,950
wife's grandmother's name, not

2003
01:03:13,950 --> 01:03:15,030
even his original name. So

2004
01:03:15,030 --> 01:03:16,050
that's, that's interesting to

2005
01:03:16,050 --> 01:03:18,840
begin. But um, this is this is a

2006
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,120
guy who the more you look into

2007
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,550
him, the more there's clearly

2008
01:03:23,550 --> 01:03:25,620
stuff there that we don't know.

2009
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:30,210
So SBF was this physics major at

2010
01:03:30,210 --> 01:03:31,950
MIT, and he hadn't even

2011
01:03:31,950 --> 01:03:34,710
graduated. When in I believe,

2012
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:36,810
2013, it was right around there.

2013
01:03:37,770 --> 01:03:40,050
William McCaskill was at MIT

2014
01:03:40,050 --> 01:03:43,590
giving a talk and was introduced

2015
01:03:43,620 --> 01:03:45,720
to SPF somehow. And in that

2016
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:47,490
introduction, McCaskill

2017
01:03:47,580 --> 01:03:50,970
immediately apparently, was, you

2018
01:03:50,970 --> 01:03:52,680
know, enthralled by the sky and

2019
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:54,300
picked him out specifically as

2020
01:03:54,300 --> 01:03:56,220
an individual to, I mean,

2021
01:03:56,220 --> 01:03:57,120
there's no other way to put it

2022
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:59,850
to to groom. He, then this is,

2023
01:03:59,850 --> 01:04:00,780
by the way, all of this is

2024
01:04:00,780 --> 01:04:02,310
coming from that deleted Sequoia

2025
01:04:02,310 --> 01:04:03,660
article. So I'm not inventing

2026
01:04:03,660 --> 01:04:04,830
any of this. This is exactly

2027
01:04:04,830 --> 01:04:05,070
also

2028
01:04:05,070 --> 01:04:06,420
in the New Yorker piece on

2029
01:04:06,420 --> 01:04:07,530
McCaskill and Effective

2030
01:04:07,530 --> 01:04:08,160
Altruism.

2031
01:04:08,279 --> 01:04:11,819
Yes, yes. So so so McCaskill,

2032
01:04:11,849 --> 01:04:13,259
you know, essentially pick

2033
01:04:13,259 --> 01:04:14,999
plucks this guy out of MIT

2034
01:04:14,999 --> 01:04:16,979
hasn't even graduated. And in

2035
01:04:16,979 --> 01:04:18,809
the conversations with SPF,

2036
01:04:19,049 --> 01:04:21,959
apparently convinced SPF that

2037
01:04:22,139 --> 01:04:24,089
the best thing SPF could do for

2038
01:04:24,089 --> 01:04:26,069
the world, is to make as much

2039
01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:28,139
money as possible. And then you

2040
01:04:28,139 --> 01:04:31,289
know, fund EA causes. And then

2041
01:04:31,319 --> 01:04:33,779
the interesting thing is SBF

2042
01:04:33,779 --> 01:04:35,579
hadn't even interned at Jane

2043
01:04:35,579 --> 01:04:36,839
Street capital yet, but

2044
01:04:36,839 --> 01:04:38,399
McCaskill is the one that

2045
01:04:38,399 --> 01:04:40,319
suggested Jane Street, the hedge

2046
01:04:40,319 --> 01:04:41,549
fund, the New York hedge fund,

2047
01:04:41,759 --> 01:04:42,809
where a lot of these you know,

2048
01:04:42,809 --> 01:04:45,449
Alameda FTX people interned for

2049
01:04:45,449 --> 01:04:46,199
a period of time.

2050
01:04:46,259 --> 01:04:48,989
A lot of them a lot of the FTX

2051
01:04:49,019 --> 01:04:50,759
and Alameda people have

2052
01:04:51,629 --> 01:04:53,699
overlapping ties to Jane Street

2053
01:04:53,699 --> 01:04:55,559
and Effective Altruism, the

2054
01:04:55,559 --> 01:04:57,449
majority it turns out have

2055
01:04:57,449 --> 01:04:59,039
overlaps with both so that's

2056
01:04:59,039 --> 01:05:01,469
pretty good. interesting anyway,

2057
01:05:01,469 --> 01:05:02,009
continue.

2058
01:05:02,220 --> 01:05:03,630
Yeah, cat Carolina, of course,

2059
01:05:03,660 --> 01:05:05,220
was at Jane Street for a period.

2060
01:05:05,220 --> 01:05:06,900
That's where she met FBF and

2061
01:05:06,930 --> 01:05:11,040
also gave bank Winfried Sam's

2062
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:12,930
brother, I believe, also worked

2063
01:05:12,930 --> 01:05:13,860
at chain street for a short

2064
01:05:13,860 --> 01:05:16,080
period of time. So So that's

2065
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:17,760
weird. Okay, so So I worked on

2066
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:18,780
Wall Street, right? I mean, I

2067
01:05:18,780 --> 01:05:20,310
was very deep in the hedge fund

2068
01:05:20,340 --> 01:05:21,840
industry and all that stuff. I

2069
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:22,710
didn't work at the hedge fund

2070
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:23,730
industry, but they were clients

2071
01:05:24,300 --> 01:05:29,520
and for a PhD philosophy

2072
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:34,290
professor Jung at Oxford to for

2073
01:05:34,290 --> 01:05:35,640
the first thought in his mind

2074
01:05:35,670 --> 01:05:38,310
upon meeting this guy at MIT

2075
01:05:38,310 --> 01:05:40,290
sandbank, Winfried, oh, you need

2076
01:05:40,290 --> 01:05:41,940
to work at Chang street. That to

2077
01:05:41,940 --> 01:05:43,080
me was one of the biggest red

2078
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:44,550
flags I've seen, because that's

2079
01:05:44,550 --> 01:05:46,530
a very bizarre connection, the

2080
01:05:46,530 --> 01:05:48,270
physics major, like he was a

2081
01:05:48,270 --> 01:05:49,740
physical SBF was a physics

2082
01:05:49,740 --> 01:05:51,300
major. It's a very bizarre

2083
01:05:51,300 --> 01:05:52,830
connection. So first of all, not

2084
01:05:52,830 --> 01:05:54,300
only does McCaskill pick this

2085
01:05:54,300 --> 01:05:55,800
guy out of out of the out of the

2086
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,470
crowd at MIT, he then convinces

2087
01:05:58,470 --> 01:05:59,520
him that he needs to make as

2088
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:00,960
much money as possible. And then

2089
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,180
he and then he suggests, hey,

2090
01:06:03,180 --> 01:06:04,440
you should go intern at James

2091
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,290
Street. So weird. I cannot come

2092
01:06:07,290 --> 01:06:11,250
up with a a normal explanation

2093
01:06:11,250 --> 01:06:12,450
for that sinkewitz. Yeah,

2094
01:06:12,450 --> 01:06:13,950
there definitely isn't. And I

2095
01:06:13,950 --> 01:06:15,600
think even after that, let's

2096
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:17,700
point out to that. Well, while

2097
01:06:17,730 --> 01:06:19,440
SPF is at Jane Street, the

2098
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,260
McCaskill connection continues.

2099
01:06:22,530 --> 01:06:24,540
And he's involved I think, also

2100
01:06:24,540 --> 01:06:28,860
in guiding SPF, after he leaves

2101
01:06:28,860 --> 01:06:31,410
Jane Street, as well, which

2102
01:06:31,410 --> 01:06:32,850
leads to the creation of lmao

2103
01:06:32,850 --> 01:06:33,510
and FTX.

2104
01:06:33,540 --> 01:06:35,070
Right, so So on this front,

2105
01:06:35,100 --> 01:06:37,560
again, EA Effective Altruism,

2106
01:06:37,710 --> 01:06:39,900
and William McCaskill are all

2107
01:06:39,900 --> 01:06:42,420
over the entire origin story of

2108
01:06:42,420 --> 01:06:44,220
FBF, like at least the one we

2109
01:06:44,220 --> 01:06:46,920
know of. So So SPF works a Jane

2110
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:48,540
Street for a period of time, and

2111
01:06:48,540 --> 01:06:49,680
then leaves and then he moves

2112
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:51,150
back out to San Francisco, you

2113
01:06:51,150 --> 01:06:52,080
know, he's he's born, he was

2114
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,210
born in that area. And at this

2115
01:06:54,210 --> 01:06:55,830
point, he doesn't have a job and

2116
01:06:55,830 --> 01:06:57,300
McCaskill offers, and this is

2117
01:06:57,300 --> 01:06:58,830
from the Sequoia article, but

2118
01:06:58,830 --> 01:07:00,870
Casco offers him a job at the

2119
01:07:00,870 --> 01:07:02,790
Center for Effective Altruism at

2120
01:07:02,790 --> 01:07:04,110
that point. Now, I don't, it's

2121
01:07:04,110 --> 01:07:05,610
not clear whether SPF took that

2122
01:07:05,610 --> 01:07:06,810
or not, but he was it was

2123
01:07:06,810 --> 01:07:08,280
offered to him. So there's

2124
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:09,450
McCaskill again, in San

2125
01:07:09,450 --> 01:07:10,650
Francisco offering this guy a

2126
01:07:10,650 --> 01:07:13,980
job. Shortly after that, is when

2127
01:07:13,980 --> 01:07:15,990
the whole arbitrage trade

2128
01:07:15,990 --> 01:07:17,730
supposedly happened. And

2129
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:19,710
interestingly enough, as we

2130
01:07:19,710 --> 01:07:21,390
discussed earlier, this was an

2131
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:23,430
this was an ARB trade. That was

2132
01:07:23,460 --> 01:07:25,230
the I guess the arbitrage

2133
01:07:25,260 --> 01:07:26,850
opportunity was well known,

2134
01:07:26,850 --> 01:07:28,950
right, that the price of Bitcoin

2135
01:07:28,950 --> 01:07:30,060
was trading at a significant

2136
01:07:30,060 --> 01:07:32,820
premium in Korea and Japan. And

2137
01:07:32,850 --> 01:07:34,500
nobody really was able to make a

2138
01:07:34,500 --> 01:07:35,700
lot of money out of it, because

2139
01:07:35,700 --> 01:07:37,170
you needed bank accounts, you

2140
01:07:37,170 --> 01:07:38,610
know, in various jurisdictions,

2141
01:07:38,610 --> 01:07:39,390
you need to be able to move

2142
01:07:39,390 --> 01:07:40,620
money around, right, something

2143
01:07:40,620 --> 01:07:41,880
that, you know, you need to be

2144
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:43,770
connected, essentially very

2145
01:07:43,770 --> 01:07:47,220
connected to pull off. And the

2146
01:07:47,580 --> 01:07:49,890
person apparently was a grad

2147
01:07:49,890 --> 01:07:52,260
student in Japan, who helped

2148
01:07:52,260 --> 01:07:54,240
make this trade happen for SPF

2149
01:07:54,300 --> 01:07:56,490
was also in the EA effective

2150
01:07:56,490 --> 01:07:59,130
altruists network. So SPF was

2151
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,500
somehow connected to a another

2152
01:08:01,530 --> 01:08:02,070
EA

2153
01:08:02,100 --> 01:08:04,200
in Japan, who allow them use a

2154
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:05,400
bank account. Exactly.

2155
01:08:05,430 --> 01:08:06,690
Let me just make it so again,

2156
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:09,060
who even put SBF in touch with

2157
01:08:09,060 --> 01:08:10,440
this guy to know about the

2158
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:12,060
arbitrator? What would be your I

2159
01:08:12,060 --> 01:08:13,590
suspect that some of you know

2160
01:08:13,590 --> 01:08:15,900
again, like some some hand back

2161
01:08:15,900 --> 01:08:17,730
there, and that network, tipped

2162
01:08:17,730 --> 01:08:19,140
off SBF and said, Hey, by the

2163
01:08:19,140 --> 01:08:20,430
way, there's this big trade. Oh,

2164
01:08:20,460 --> 01:08:22,140
by the way, this guy can help

2165
01:08:22,140 --> 01:08:23,520
you with bank accounts in Japan.

2166
01:08:23,790 --> 01:08:27,090
It's all weird. And then, when

2167
01:08:27,090 --> 01:08:29,370
SPF wants to raise more money,

2168
01:08:29,550 --> 01:08:31,380
to apparently continue to

2169
01:08:31,380 --> 01:08:33,270
exploit the ARB or for other

2170
01:08:33,270 --> 01:08:36,120
reasons, he taps the EA network

2171
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:37,710
once again. And this guy John

2172
01:08:37,710 --> 01:08:39,510
Pollan, who is a co founder of

2173
01:08:39,510 --> 01:08:42,420
Skype apparently puts together

2174
01:08:42,420 --> 01:08:43,800
either it was all his own money

2175
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,020
or a group of EA money 50

2176
01:08:46,020 --> 01:08:48,210
million to give to SPF and

2177
01:08:48,420 --> 01:08:50,820
supposedly from that, right,

2178
01:08:50,850 --> 01:08:52,950
initial injection and the ARP

2179
01:08:52,950 --> 01:08:56,340
trade FTX is born. And I would

2180
01:08:56,340 --> 01:08:57,480
like to point out that even in

2181
01:08:57,480 --> 01:08:59,730
the Sequoia article, I think it

2182
01:08:59,730 --> 01:09:03,990
was Nishad Singh, he explicitly

2183
01:09:03,990 --> 01:09:05,550
states that none of it could

2184
01:09:05,550 --> 01:09:07,440
have happened without EA, none

2185
01:09:07,440 --> 01:09:09,270
of it. So, you know,

2186
01:09:09,300 --> 01:09:11,700
objectively, the Effective

2187
01:09:11,700 --> 01:09:14,790
Altruism network a, a supposedly

2188
01:09:14,790 --> 01:09:18,570
some sort of philosophy from

2189
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:21,720
Oxford, is able to create

2190
01:09:22,050 --> 01:09:24,270
almeyda and FTX, the the entire

2191
01:09:24,270 --> 01:09:25,890
origin story, every single piece

2192
01:09:25,890 --> 01:09:28,860
of it leads back to to William

2193
01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:30,180
and EA,

2194
01:09:30,330 --> 01:09:31,890
everything. I think even the

2195
01:09:31,890 --> 01:09:34,470
part where SPF decides to leave

2196
01:09:34,470 --> 01:09:35,910
Jane Street for the Sequoia

2197
01:09:35,910 --> 01:09:37,290
article. It's because of a moral

2198
01:09:37,290 --> 01:09:39,120
dilemma he has because of his EA

2199
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:40,890
philosophy, which now he's he's

2200
01:09:40,890 --> 01:09:43,500
told these Vox people was bunk,

2201
01:09:43,530 --> 01:09:44,820
but he doesn't actually care

2202
01:09:44,820 --> 01:09:47,850
about that philosophy. It was

2203
01:09:47,850 --> 01:09:48,630
just like a front,

2204
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:50,430
right? Because he wasn't making

2205
01:09:50,460 --> 01:09:51,840
because he wasn't making enough

2206
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:53,100
at Jane. So he needed to make

2207
01:09:53,100 --> 01:09:54,600
more to save the world. Which by

2208
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:56,190
the way, I want to point out and

2209
01:09:56,190 --> 01:09:57,960
I think everyone should Google

2210
01:09:57,960 --> 01:09:59,190
this and look look at the

2211
01:09:59,190 --> 01:10:00,630
pictures so He shared with it.

2212
01:10:01,350 --> 01:10:04,230
Just to show you how EA itself I

2213
01:10:04,230 --> 01:10:06,990
believe is a front. It's no I

2214
01:10:06,990 --> 01:10:08,190
don't think any of the higher

2215
01:10:08,190 --> 01:10:10,050
ups in this movement believe any

2216
01:10:10,050 --> 01:10:11,730
of it because if you read that

2217
01:10:11,730 --> 01:10:13,470
New Yorker article, it begins

2218
01:10:13,470 --> 01:10:16,440
with William McCaskill being so

2219
01:10:16,440 --> 01:10:17,850
frugal that he wouldn't have

2220
01:10:17,850 --> 01:10:19,290
beers with his friends because

2221
01:10:19,290 --> 01:10:20,490
he could be saving, you know,

2222
01:10:20,490 --> 01:10:22,110
the poor kids in Africa, right

2223
01:10:22,110 --> 01:10:23,760
with with his beer money. And

2224
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:25,620
then, you know, fast forward a

2225
01:10:25,620 --> 01:10:27,420
few years later, and the Center

2226
01:10:27,420 --> 01:10:28,950
for Effective Altruism has

2227
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:30,750
purchased one of the most

2228
01:10:31,590 --> 01:10:35,130
exquisite and celebrated private

2229
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:36,660
residences in all of the UK

2230
01:10:36,660 --> 01:10:37,920
called White them Abbey, which

2231
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:39,120
is outside of Oxford, it's a

2232
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:41,790
1480s. Essentially, it looks

2233
01:10:41,790 --> 01:10:43,650
like a castle. And so you go

2234
01:10:43,650 --> 01:10:46,140
from a guy who claims he won't

2235
01:10:46,170 --> 01:10:48,450
eat a chicken or have a beer

2236
01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:49,680
because he could be saving the

2237
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,160
world to his center buying

2238
01:10:53,430 --> 01:10:56,700
one of them private residences

2239
01:10:56,700 --> 01:10:58,980
in all Britain that isn't

2240
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:00,180
right. So the point that I'm

2241
01:11:00,180 --> 01:11:01,620
trying to make is that this

2242
01:11:01,620 --> 01:11:03,510
whole thing, and I don't want to

2243
01:11:03,510 --> 01:11:05,280
disparage you know, like, you

2244
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:06,660
know, your useful idiot who

2245
01:11:06,660 --> 01:11:07,830
comes out of college and thinks,

2246
01:11:07,830 --> 01:11:09,300
wow, this is this is so good.

2247
01:11:09,300 --> 01:11:10,920
Like, there's idealistic, right,

2248
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:12,450
the rank and file that

2249
01:11:12,690 --> 01:11:14,220
associated with EA are, are

2250
01:11:14,220 --> 01:11:15,780
just, they really are they

2251
01:11:15,780 --> 01:11:17,340
believe it, but I'm saying

2252
01:11:17,340 --> 01:11:19,080
there's all indications point to

2253
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:22,020
the people who are actually, you

2254
01:11:22,020 --> 01:11:23,220
know, at this point in charge of

2255
01:11:23,220 --> 01:11:26,670
billions, do not believe any of

2256
01:11:26,730 --> 01:11:29,220
of it, and in their, their their

2257
01:11:29,220 --> 01:11:30,240
deeds show that.

2258
01:11:30,900 --> 01:11:32,700
Yeah, one angle of EA, I think

2259
01:11:32,700 --> 01:11:33,720
is interesting is this, you

2260
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:35,160
know, the same utilitarian

2261
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:37,770
ideology, right? In theory, you

2262
01:11:37,770 --> 01:11:39,870
know, the ends justify the

2263
01:11:39,870 --> 01:11:41,430
means, and this is said in other

2264
01:11:41,430 --> 01:11:43,080
pieces that talks about the EA

2265
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,720
movement. So in theory, you

2266
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:47,250
know, you can justify to

2267
01:11:47,250 --> 01:11:49,860
yourself, running a giant Ponzi

2268
01:11:49,860 --> 01:11:51,660
scheme and you know, stealing a

2269
01:11:51,660 --> 01:11:53,100
bunch of people's money, because

2270
01:11:53,100 --> 01:11:54,270
you know, how to spend it better

2271
01:11:54,270 --> 01:11:55,560
than they do for, you know,

2272
01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:57,990
greatest impact for good, right.

2273
01:11:59,310 --> 01:12:00,510
Yeah, I mean, that's sort of

2274
01:12:00,540 --> 01:12:01,920
part of this philosophy.

2275
01:12:01,950 --> 01:12:04,140
This is This is precisely why

2276
01:12:04,140 --> 01:12:05,160
it's such a dangerous

2277
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:06,420
philosophy. And the fact that

2278
01:12:06,420 --> 01:12:09,090
it's in has billions 10s of

2279
01:12:09,090 --> 01:12:11,040
billions as its disposal and is

2280
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:12,900
influencing Paul politics,

2281
01:12:12,900 --> 01:12:15,270
remember, SPF funded, a lot of

2282
01:12:15,270 --> 01:12:16,710
his donations were actually he

2283
01:12:16,710 --> 01:12:17,970
funded this one person who's

2284
01:12:17,970 --> 01:12:20,070
running EA, in Oregon and the

2285
01:12:20,070 --> 01:12:21,090
primary he was trying to get

2286
01:12:21,090 --> 01:12:22,200
that person elected who was an

2287
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:24,450
effective altruists, this

2288
01:12:24,450 --> 01:12:26,970
philosophy very, very clearly

2289
01:12:27,270 --> 01:12:29,730
can justify anything. And in

2290
01:12:29,730 --> 01:12:31,770
fact, it does. And one of the

2291
01:12:31,770 --> 01:12:33,810
areas that I think you've been

2292
01:12:33,810 --> 01:12:35,820
interested in, is the fact that

2293
01:12:35,850 --> 01:12:37,530
it's, it's shifted over time, of

2294
01:12:37,530 --> 01:12:39,390
course, to long term ism is what

2295
01:12:39,390 --> 01:12:41,520
they call it, EA, that's like

2296
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,740
the thing that SBF was also very

2297
01:12:43,740 --> 01:12:47,550
interested in. And, as Marty

2298
01:12:47,550 --> 01:12:50,070
mentioned, this is I mean, it's

2299
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:51,420
like mental masturbation to the

2300
01:12:51,420 --> 01:12:54,600
extreme. They believe, not only

2301
01:12:54,630 --> 01:12:55,770
that, they believe that not

2302
01:12:55,770 --> 01:12:57,780
helping people that are that are

2303
01:12:57,780 --> 01:12:59,340
dying or poor now isn't good

2304
01:12:59,340 --> 01:13:00,480
enough. They need to save the

2305
01:13:00,480 --> 01:13:02,040
lives of the future trillions of

2306
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:04,050
humans, and they know how to do

2307
01:13:04,050 --> 01:13:06,600
it, right. And so again, if you

2308
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,900
feel like you, you know how to

2309
01:13:09,930 --> 01:13:12,060
effectively save the lives of

2310
01:13:12,210 --> 01:13:14,040
trillions of human future

2311
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:15,270
humans, and you understand that

2312
01:13:15,270 --> 01:13:17,220
you can and will justify doing

2313
01:13:17,310 --> 01:13:19,530
anything at the current moment.

2314
01:13:19,770 --> 01:13:21,180
And so when you merge this

2315
01:13:21,180 --> 01:13:23,670
philosophy with what the you

2316
01:13:23,670 --> 01:13:26,250
know, political, and oligarchic

2317
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:27,900
elite are obviously trying to do

2318
01:13:27,900 --> 01:13:29,670
now, it's the perfect fit,

2319
01:13:29,670 --> 01:13:31,380
because it provides this

2320
01:13:31,380 --> 01:13:33,420
justification for doing anything

2321
01:13:33,420 --> 01:13:34,950
in the present to save the

2322
01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:37,080
trillions in the future. And I

2323
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:38,370
would also want to add, because

2324
01:13:38,370 --> 01:13:39,450
I don't I don't want to forget

2325
01:13:39,450 --> 01:13:42,150
that McCaskill was an advisor to

2326
01:13:42,150 --> 01:13:44,040
FTX. I think it was the fun

2327
01:13:44,670 --> 01:13:46,830
Future Fund Future Fund until

2328
01:13:46,830 --> 01:13:47,430
the blow up.

2329
01:13:47,580 --> 01:13:49,440
I mean, he was he was right

2330
01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:51,120
there until the very end. And by

2331
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:52,770
the way, I also want to mention

2332
01:13:52,770 --> 01:13:53,730
this too, because I want people

2333
01:13:53,730 --> 01:13:55,680
to look into it. This is so

2334
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,200
bizarre as well. McCaskill, as I

2335
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:01,530
mentioned, was texting with Elon

2336
01:14:01,530 --> 01:14:04,020
Musk about SBF not the other way

2337
01:14:04,020 --> 01:14:06,870
around. Okay, so McCaskill knows

2338
01:14:06,870 --> 01:14:09,870
his handler, right? He knows him

2339
01:14:09,870 --> 01:14:12,030
so well, that he's texting Elon

2340
01:14:12,030 --> 01:14:13,410
Musk, just like casually Hey,

2341
01:14:13,470 --> 01:14:14,610
you know, how's your day going?

2342
01:14:14,610 --> 01:14:16,860
By the way, SPF is a great

2343
01:14:16,860 --> 01:14:18,180
partner to buy Twitter with you.

2344
01:14:18,180 --> 01:14:19,290
I mean, that's what he's saying.

2345
01:14:19,530 --> 01:14:20,700
He's like, can I connect you

2346
01:14:20,700 --> 01:14:22,710
guys, you know, so this obscure?

2347
01:14:22,740 --> 01:14:24,240
Oh, didn't Elon Musk also tweet

2348
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,550
out that about mechanicals book

2349
01:14:26,550 --> 01:14:27,810
that this is basically his

2350
01:14:27,810 --> 01:14:29,940
philosophy also, correct? Yes.

2351
01:14:29,940 --> 01:14:32,130
This is this book aligns most

2352
01:14:32,130 --> 01:14:33,330
closely with my personal

2353
01:14:33,330 --> 01:14:34,650
philosophy believes what he

2354
01:14:34,650 --> 01:14:37,170
said. But there's another

2355
01:14:37,950 --> 01:14:39,120
another. There's another

2356
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:40,800
interesting nugget here between

2357
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:46,050
Twitter FTX EA as well. One

2358
01:14:46,050 --> 01:14:47,190
thing that was highlighted in

2359
01:14:47,190 --> 01:14:48,990
the balance sheet of FTX and

2360
01:14:48,990 --> 01:14:51,660
Alameda that's been shared in

2361
01:14:51,660 --> 01:14:53,760
the last few weeks, is that part

2362
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:54,780
of their balance sheet one of

2363
01:14:54,780 --> 01:14:55,860
the assets on their balance

2364
01:14:55,860 --> 01:14:57,510
sheet is Twitter stock, and this

2365
01:14:57,510 --> 01:14:59,970
is private Twitter stock. Ah, so

2366
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,760
Uh, as we know, Elon has, has

2367
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:04,920
bought Twitter and taken it

2368
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,410
private. And there are only a

2369
01:15:07,410 --> 01:15:09,540
few shareholders who were able

2370
01:15:09,540 --> 01:15:11,940
to convert their public shares

2371
01:15:11,940 --> 01:15:13,050
and the private shares. And it

2372
01:15:13,050 --> 01:15:14,880
seems like FTX made them one of

2373
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:16,710
those, those shareholders.

2374
01:15:17,010 --> 01:15:18,030
Well, that's interesting.

2375
01:15:18,300 --> 01:15:20,010
Yeah. Just going back to how

2376
01:15:20,010 --> 01:15:22,290
does a young philosophy

2377
01:15:22,290 --> 01:15:25,260
professor at Oxford, texting

2378
01:15:25,290 --> 01:15:29,700
Elon Musk suggesting to Sam bank

2379
01:15:29,700 --> 01:15:30,810
Ben free that he will work at

2380
01:15:30,810 --> 01:15:32,670
Chang Street, helping this

2381
01:15:32,670 --> 01:15:34,500
network providing all of the

2382
01:15:34,500 --> 01:15:36,360
initial funding Yeah, and right

2383
01:15:36,540 --> 01:15:39,780
capabilities to make the origin

2384
01:15:39,780 --> 01:15:42,060
story happen? That just none of

2385
01:15:42,060 --> 01:15:44,490
it? I mean, as Marco hood is, I

2386
01:15:44,490 --> 01:15:46,530
mean, none of it adds up and the

2387
01:15:46,530 --> 01:15:48,210
edge end and again, nobody,

2388
01:15:48,210 --> 01:15:49,530
nobody's really focusing on this

2389
01:15:49,530 --> 01:15:50,880
angle. As far as I can tell.

2390
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:51,090
It's

2391
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:52,620
no I think it's a very telling

2392
01:15:52,620 --> 01:15:53,940
angle because I mean, you look

2393
01:15:53,940 --> 01:15:55,170
at this William McCaskill guy,

2394
01:15:55,170 --> 01:15:57,330
he is 100% Sam Venkman. Fried's

2395
01:15:57,330 --> 01:15:58,590
handler from the time he's an

2396
01:15:58,590 --> 01:16:00,690
undergrad to now. And that's

2397
01:16:00,690 --> 01:16:01,890
like a decade of guiding

2398
01:16:01,890 --> 01:16:03,240
everything this guy does. And

2399
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:04,740
this guy's being propped up,

2400
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:06,510
like we talked about groomed for

2401
01:16:06,510 --> 01:16:08,370
this big role of like, crypto

2402
01:16:08,370 --> 01:16:10,050
savior, one of the big faces in

2403
01:16:10,050 --> 01:16:11,460
the entire industry, who's going

2404
01:16:11,460 --> 01:16:13,110
to lead people to what we

2405
01:16:13,110 --> 01:16:14,250
mentioned earlier, the bridge

2406
01:16:14,250 --> 01:16:15,420
between the current financial

2407
01:16:15,420 --> 01:16:17,520
system and cbdc. At least that's

2408
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:19,800
how it looked. And this is the

2409
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:21,630
guy behind him and Oxford

2410
01:16:21,780 --> 01:16:23,940
philosophy guy, you know, I

2411
01:16:23,940 --> 01:16:25,590
don't really buy that. And then

2412
01:16:25,620 --> 01:16:27,270
you know, another Elon Musk

2413
01:16:27,270 --> 01:16:28,050
connection, it's a little more

2414
01:16:28,050 --> 01:16:31,110
indirect. The building an Oxford

2415
01:16:31,140 --> 01:16:32,220
that the Center for Effective

2416
01:16:32,220 --> 01:16:34,380
Altruism has been out for

2417
01:16:34,410 --> 01:16:35,880
several years, I think, at least

2418
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:37,680
before they bought this palatial

2419
01:16:38,130 --> 01:16:40,290
estate recently, was called the

2420
01:16:40,290 --> 01:16:42,150
future for humanity Institute,

2421
01:16:42,690 --> 01:16:44,790
which is funded by Elon Musk. So

2422
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:46,170
they were in the same sharing

2423
01:16:46,170 --> 01:16:47,070
the same office space,

2424
01:16:47,070 --> 01:16:50,130
basically. And the future for

2425
01:16:50,130 --> 01:16:51,390
humanity Institute makes the

2426
01:16:51,390 --> 01:16:53,220
same argument that's basically

2427
01:16:53,220 --> 01:16:54,960
an argument for transhumanism

2428
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:56,100
where they say, you know, we

2429
01:16:56,100 --> 01:16:58,020
have to augment because AI is

2430
01:16:58,020 --> 01:16:59,130
inevitable, and it's going to

2431
01:16:59,130 --> 01:17:00,210
take over everything. So to

2432
01:17:00,210 --> 01:17:01,680
compete with this inevitable

2433
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:03,570
super AI, we have to become

2434
01:17:03,570 --> 01:17:05,130
machines ourselves, and you

2435
01:17:05,130 --> 01:17:05,910
know, plugs, the whole

2436
01:17:05,910 --> 01:17:08,610
transhumanist stuff. So, you

2437
01:17:08,610 --> 01:17:10,290
know, just interesting. These

2438
01:17:10,290 --> 01:17:12,660
networks, you know, are so close

2439
01:17:12,660 --> 01:17:13,740
together, and a lot of it's at

2440
01:17:13,740 --> 01:17:15,000
Oxford. And it's worth pointing

2441
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:16,440
out to you that like the Oxford,

2442
01:17:17,670 --> 01:17:19,200
you know, has a long standing

2443
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:21,540
tie to British intelligence

2444
01:17:21,540 --> 01:17:24,420
agencies. Just throw that out

2445
01:17:24,420 --> 01:17:26,880
there. William McCaskill. Is he

2446
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:28,500
just a philosophy professor, I

2447
01:17:28,500 --> 01:17:29,280
don't know. But it doesn't

2448
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:32,160
really look like it. And I one

2449
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:33,180
thing I wanted to mention about

2450
01:17:33,180 --> 01:17:34,560
him too, in terms of his role at

2451
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:37,140
the FTX Future Fund, I think

2452
01:17:37,140 --> 01:17:38,820
it's the New Yorker article, it

2453
01:17:38,820 --> 01:17:41,790
basically points out that while

2454
01:17:41,790 --> 01:17:43,530
he's at FTX, he's basically

2455
01:17:43,530 --> 01:17:45,960
looking at with this Future

2456
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:47,490
Fund, he has a role in moving a

2457
01:17:47,490 --> 01:17:48,900
lot of the money at that Future

2458
01:17:48,900 --> 01:17:51,150
Fund, to other organizations

2459
01:17:51,150 --> 01:17:52,530
that are part of this umbrella

2460
01:17:52,530 --> 01:17:54,270
are closely tied to the Center

2461
01:17:54,270 --> 01:17:56,280
for Effective Altruism. And as I

2462
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:57,360
was telling you guys before the

2463
01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:59,850
show, we took a look at some of

2464
01:17:59,850 --> 01:18:01,740
the financials, at least in the

2465
01:18:01,740 --> 01:18:04,080
British system, for the Center

2466
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:05,550
for Effective Altruism, and

2467
01:18:05,550 --> 01:18:07,200
something happened in August of

2468
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:09,930
this year, where it they

2469
01:18:09,930 --> 01:18:11,310
basically split themselves into

2470
01:18:11,310 --> 01:18:14,730
five different or maybe six. So

2471
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:17,040
they just splintered off in

2472
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:18,180
divided themselves into much

2473
01:18:18,180 --> 01:18:19,920
smaller companies. And William

2474
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:21,420
McCaskill was using different

2475
01:18:21,420 --> 01:18:23,130
variations of his name to get

2476
01:18:23,130 --> 01:18:24,480
different ID numbers tied to

2477
01:18:24,660 --> 01:18:26,100
each company. So if you click on

2478
01:18:26,100 --> 01:18:27,270
this guy's name, or anyone's

2479
01:18:27,270 --> 01:18:28,440
name, like at companies house or

2480
01:18:28,440 --> 01:18:29,160
something like that, you're

2481
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:30,930
gonna get you know, all of the

2482
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:33,330
entities they're tied to. So the

2483
01:18:33,330 --> 01:18:34,260
fact that he used different

2484
01:18:34,260 --> 01:18:35,250
variations of his name, you

2485
01:18:35,250 --> 01:18:36,960
click on one and only one person

2486
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:38,190
comes up, and then that's the

2487
01:18:38,190 --> 01:18:39,330
only entity tied to that

2488
01:18:39,330 --> 01:18:40,710
variation of that name. So

2489
01:18:40,710 --> 01:18:41,910
instead of William McCaskill,

2490
01:18:41,910 --> 01:18:43,350
its William David McCaskill, or

2491
01:18:43,350 --> 01:18:45,300
Dr. William McCaskill, or Dr.

2492
01:18:45,540 --> 01:18:46,920
William David McCaskill, you

2493
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:47,760
know, like all these different

2494
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,310
iterations of his name. And then

2495
01:18:50,310 --> 01:18:51,720
the other thing that is a red

2496
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:52,740
flag for me in terms of

2497
01:18:52,740 --> 01:18:53,760
potential intelligence

2498
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:56,370
connections of this guy, he is

2499
01:18:56,370 --> 01:18:57,510
using, as we mentioned earlier,

2500
01:18:57,510 --> 01:18:59,610
his grand his ex wife's

2501
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:01,680
grandmother's surname, he's

2502
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:03,360
claimed that his surname is is

2503
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:06,000
crouch, that his real name is

2504
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:08,160
William crouch, but at least as

2505
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:09,780
far as we saw, and it's possible

2506
01:19:09,780 --> 01:19:12,210
that you know, maybe he wasn't

2507
01:19:12,210 --> 01:19:14,730
included and you know, the UK

2508
01:19:15,150 --> 01:19:17,040
databases that are allow you to

2509
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:18,960
see like birth registration and

2510
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,000
stuff but William crouched in a

2511
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:22,710
turn up any results for March

2512
01:19:22,710 --> 01:19:25,890
1987, which is the birth month

2513
01:19:25,890 --> 01:19:28,350
and year that he supplied to the

2514
01:19:28,350 --> 01:19:29,940
British government with the

2515
01:19:29,940 --> 01:19:31,200
filings of this stuff. So it's

2516
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:32,220
very possible that William

2517
01:19:32,220 --> 01:19:33,810
crouch isn't even his actual

2518
01:19:33,810 --> 01:19:35,370
name. And isn't it weird that

2519
01:19:35,370 --> 01:19:37,590
he's willing to McCaskill using

2520
01:19:37,590 --> 01:19:38,910
a last name that's not tied up

2521
01:19:38,910 --> 01:19:41,400
with his family at all. And but

2522
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:43,470
he's supplying his former name,

2523
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:44,970
but it turns out his former name

2524
01:19:44,970 --> 01:19:46,260
might not actually be his former

2525
01:19:46,260 --> 01:19:49,620
name. Okay, so and there's also

2526
01:19:49,620 --> 01:19:51,120
nothing about his parents. From

2527
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:52,170
what I've seen. You can't find

2528
01:19:52,170 --> 01:19:53,730
out much about William McCaskill

2529
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:56,160
parents who presumably have the

2530
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:57,600
last name crouch if he used to

2531
01:19:57,600 --> 01:19:59,310
be believed, but it seems like

2532
01:19:59,310 --> 01:20:00,420
there's a lot of For it to

2533
01:20:00,420 --> 01:20:03,960
obfuscate his lineage. That is,

2534
01:20:03,990 --> 01:20:05,010
I mean, there's a lot of red

2535
01:20:05,010 --> 01:20:06,540
flags around the sky. And you

2536
01:20:06,540 --> 01:20:07,530
know, probably an even bigger

2537
01:20:07,530 --> 01:20:08,820
red flag is that there's no

2538
01:20:08,820 --> 01:20:10,230
interest from the media and

2539
01:20:10,230 --> 01:20:11,520
looking into him in this

2540
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:12,630
movement at all, despite the

2541
01:20:12,630 --> 01:20:14,370
fact that he's a, he's the

2542
01:20:14,370 --> 01:20:16,020
handler 100%.

2543
01:20:16,470 --> 01:20:18,030
Right. And that's the thing,

2544
01:20:18,030 --> 01:20:20,190
because a lot a lot of and this

2545
01:20:20,190 --> 01:20:21,420
is very important, because the

2546
01:20:21,420 --> 01:20:22,830
way it's being spun to the

2547
01:20:22,830 --> 01:20:23,940
extent that it's being spun at

2548
01:20:23,940 --> 01:20:26,190
all, is that SPF was some sort

2549
01:20:26,190 --> 01:20:28,350
of successful guy who then

2550
01:20:28,350 --> 01:20:30,000
became a convert to Effective

2551
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:31,830
Altruism when that's completely

2552
01:20:31,830 --> 01:20:33,120
not what happened. What happened

2553
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:35,070
is the Effective Altruism that

2554
01:20:35,070 --> 01:20:36,540
was sought out hated, yes, I

2555
01:20:36,570 --> 01:20:38,970
created him, they, this is all

2556
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:40,170
this is all laid out there. I'm

2557
01:20:40,170 --> 01:20:43,590
now you know, he was created by

2558
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:45,030
the Effective Altruism nest

2559
01:20:45,060 --> 01:20:46,590
network, specifically William

2560
01:20:46,590 --> 01:20:48,960
McCaskill. And so again, who Who

2561
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:50,190
is this guy, you know, what,

2562
01:20:50,190 --> 01:20:51,720
what is what is going on here.

2563
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:53,220
And they even say in the Sequoia

2564
01:20:53,220 --> 01:20:57,360
article that the 50% of Alamitos

2565
01:20:57,480 --> 01:20:58,740
original profits were being

2566
01:20:58,740 --> 01:20:59,790
funneled right back to the

2567
01:20:59,790 --> 01:21:01,110
center for Effective Altruism.

2568
01:21:01,860 --> 01:21:03,390
It's all this money is going

2569
01:21:03,390 --> 01:21:05,130
back and forth. And it'd be very

2570
01:21:05,130 --> 01:21:07,470
curious to see, you know, where

2571
01:21:07,500 --> 01:21:09,300
where the stolen money ends up,

2572
01:21:09,300 --> 01:21:09,660
right.

2573
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:13,290
If we will find out anything you

2574
01:21:13,290 --> 01:21:14,190
want to add to that party?

2575
01:21:14,730 --> 01:21:15,870
That was gonna say just in the

2576
01:21:15,930 --> 01:21:17,460
last few weeks to it seems like

2577
01:21:17,460 --> 01:21:18,750
there's been a concerted effort

2578
01:21:18,750 --> 01:21:20,550
to scrub information about

2579
01:21:20,550 --> 01:21:22,080
William McCaskill from the

2580
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:25,410
internet one interesting one

2581
01:21:25,410 --> 01:21:26,280
interesting thing that happened

2582
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:28,290
to me personally, in the last

2583
01:21:28,290 --> 01:21:31,080
few weeks is I mean, I got on to

2584
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:32,550
the tip of Effective Altruism

2585
01:21:32,550 --> 01:21:33,660
and willing McCaskill being

2586
01:21:33,660 --> 01:21:35,700
behind it those doing research

2587
01:21:35,730 --> 01:21:39,090
trying to find podcasts and

2588
01:21:39,090 --> 01:21:41,190
interviews with him and one

2589
01:21:41,190 --> 01:21:43,260
individual did a podcast episode

2590
01:21:43,260 --> 01:21:44,580
with him was Lex Friedman.

2591
01:21:45,090 --> 01:21:46,740
Literally the day that I found

2592
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:50,370
the podcast episode I was able

2593
01:21:50,370 --> 01:21:53,250
to get access to to the episode

2594
01:21:53,250 --> 01:21:54,930
and the audio file but as I was

2595
01:21:54,930 --> 01:21:57,510
listening to it literally like

2596
01:21:57,510 --> 01:21:59,370
the hours the hour which I was

2597
01:21:59,370 --> 01:22:00,780
listening to Lex Friedman pulled

2598
01:22:00,780 --> 01:22:01,980
the podcasts from all those

2599
01:22:01,980 --> 01:22:04,260
platforms. And white the tweet

2600
01:22:04,260 --> 01:22:05,880
deleted the tweet announcing the

2601
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:07,920
podcast episode as well. So it

2602
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:08,940
seems like there's

2603
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:12,300
any blocky for calling it out?

2604
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:13,440
Yeah, yeah.

2605
01:22:13,590 --> 01:22:15,750
Yeah. Let me just throw one

2606
01:22:15,750 --> 01:22:17,250
thing out there also, which I

2607
01:22:17,250 --> 01:22:18,450
think is an interesting nugget

2608
01:22:18,450 --> 01:22:20,610
that could you know, be useful

2609
01:22:20,610 --> 01:22:22,590
to explore further is the

2610
01:22:22,740 --> 01:22:25,500
Alameda right was co founded and

2611
01:22:25,530 --> 01:22:27,090
almost nobody knows this, but it

2612
01:22:27,090 --> 01:22:30,090
was co founded by SPF right. And

2613
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:31,380
a person no one's ever heard of

2614
01:22:31,380 --> 01:22:35,640
called Tara Mack Holly. G and

2615
01:22:35,700 --> 01:22:38,820
and she was the CEO of the

2616
01:22:38,820 --> 01:22:40,260
Center for Effective Altruism.

2617
01:22:40,470 --> 01:22:42,150
Now, she she's moved away from

2618
01:22:42,150 --> 01:22:44,850
both Alameda and the the CEO

2619
01:22:44,850 --> 01:22:46,770
position there, I think in 2018.

2620
01:22:46,980 --> 01:22:48,990
But isn't it interesting, that

2621
01:22:48,990 --> 01:22:53,310
Alameda was co founded by the

2622
01:22:53,340 --> 01:22:55,410
former CEO of the effective

2623
01:22:55,620 --> 01:22:57,000
center for Effective Altruism?

2624
01:22:57,390 --> 01:22:59,070
It's just it's just too bizarre

2625
01:22:59,100 --> 01:22:59,910
to do.

2626
01:23:01,710 --> 01:23:04,230
With Tara specifically to she

2627
01:23:04,230 --> 01:23:06,660
went on to start some fund some

2628
01:23:06,660 --> 01:23:08,130
crypto fund in the UK, Tara

2629
01:23:08,130 --> 01:23:10,290
something I believe, but if you

2630
01:23:10,290 --> 01:23:12,180
go to our Twitter page, until

2631
01:23:12,540 --> 01:23:14,340
last week, she hadn't tweeted in

2632
01:23:14,340 --> 01:23:16,740
four or five years and then for

2633
01:23:16,740 --> 01:23:17,910
some reason or another, she

2634
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:20,130
decided to come out of Twitter

2635
01:23:20,130 --> 01:23:22,230
retirement after many years to

2636
01:23:22,230 --> 01:23:24,090
distance herself from SPF and

2637
01:23:24,090 --> 01:23:26,400
write a long thread about the

2638
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:27,630
fact that she did co found

2639
01:23:27,630 --> 01:23:30,570
Alameda but has since left and

2640
01:23:31,170 --> 01:23:33,960
does not support SPF. All right.

2641
01:23:33,990 --> 01:23:35,790
So I think what we've

2642
01:23:35,790 --> 01:23:37,320
established here Yeah, William

2643
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:39,270
McCaskill is Sam Beckman,

2644
01:23:39,270 --> 01:23:41,220
Fried's handler and has been for

2645
01:23:41,220 --> 01:23:42,900
a long time, the Center for

2646
01:23:42,900 --> 01:23:44,700
Effective Altruism seems to be

2647
01:23:44,730 --> 01:23:50,430
the force behind FTX. Right. So

2648
01:23:50,430 --> 01:23:51,720
when you're looking at what FTX

2649
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:52,800
was doing, trying to become the

2650
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:55,830
everything app, being one of the

2651
01:23:55,830 --> 01:23:57,510
top SBF being one of the top

2652
01:23:57,510 --> 01:23:59,130
donors for the DNC, the

2653
01:23:59,130 --> 01:24:01,230
Democrats this past cycle, and

2654
01:24:01,230 --> 01:24:04,380
also the offering of financial

2655
01:24:04,380 --> 01:24:06,030
services as it relates to crypto

2656
01:24:06,030 --> 01:24:09,150
donations for Ukraine. You have

2657
01:24:09,150 --> 01:24:10,200
the Center for Effective

2658
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:11,460
Altruism involved in this

2659
01:24:11,460 --> 01:24:12,870
apparently, it was setting up

2660
01:24:12,870 --> 01:24:14,040
the entity that does all of this

2661
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:17,460
stuff. So if SPF is a front for

2662
01:24:17,460 --> 01:24:19,290
these guys, why does the you

2663
01:24:19,290 --> 01:24:20,340
know the Center for Effective

2664
01:24:20,340 --> 01:24:23,940
Altruism? Why, you know, why is

2665
01:24:23,940 --> 01:24:26,670
it trying to curry extensive

2666
01:24:26,670 --> 01:24:29,430
favor with the DNC? Why is it

2667
01:24:29,430 --> 01:24:31,170
involved in apparent money

2668
01:24:31,170 --> 01:24:32,970
laundering and Ukraine? Why is

2669
01:24:32,970 --> 01:24:34,230
it involved in all of this

2670
01:24:34,230 --> 01:24:35,820
stuff? And the other angle we

2671
01:24:35,820 --> 01:24:36,750
haven't talked about yet is a

2672
01:24:36,750 --> 01:24:38,070
lot of this pandemic stuff. So I

2673
01:24:38,070 --> 01:24:39,240
think it's important to point

2674
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:41,010
out that the EAA movement, one

2675
01:24:41,010 --> 01:24:43,920
of their other biggest stars

2676
01:24:43,950 --> 01:24:48,750
before SPF was Dustin Moskovitz,

2677
01:24:48,780 --> 01:24:50,490
who is a co founder of Facebook.

2678
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:51,960
He's the CO creator of open

2679
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:54,030
philanthropy. Open philanthropy

2680
01:24:54,030 --> 01:24:56,190
was directly incubated by

2681
01:24:56,190 --> 01:24:57,330
Effective Altruism with

2682
01:24:57,330 --> 01:24:58,650
involvement I believe from

2683
01:24:58,650 --> 01:25:01,320
William McCaskill as well. But

2684
01:25:01,350 --> 01:25:03,450
it's it was like a co creation

2685
01:25:03,450 --> 01:25:04,770
of Moskovitz and his

2686
01:25:04,770 --> 01:25:06,210
philanthropies with this group

2687
01:25:06,210 --> 01:25:07,800
called GiveWell, who were x

2688
01:25:07,830 --> 01:25:09,810
hedge fund guys that created

2689
01:25:09,810 --> 01:25:11,610
that bought into this philosophy

2690
01:25:11,610 --> 01:25:13,320
quote unquote, and created, you

2691
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:16,410
know, an entity some sort of

2692
01:25:16,410 --> 01:25:17,850
philanthropic quote unquote

2693
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:19,950
entity and so that merged with

2694
01:25:19,950 --> 01:25:20,910
Musk if it's this stuff and

2695
01:25:20,910 --> 01:25:22,020
creates open philanthropy, but

2696
01:25:22,020 --> 01:25:23,880
it's very much intimately tied

2697
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:25,500
to this EA network we're talking

2698
01:25:25,500 --> 01:25:26,880
about, and those are the people

2699
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:29,700
that funded event 201 Yeah, the

2700
01:25:30,090 --> 01:25:31,830
like, you know, Coronavirus

2701
01:25:31,830 --> 01:25:34,110
simulation before COVID-19

2702
01:25:34,110 --> 01:25:36,570
happened. And then you have SBF

2703
01:25:36,570 --> 01:25:39,000
on his side funding some weird

2704
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:41,040
pen pandemic related things,

2705
01:25:41,130 --> 01:25:42,840
having a weird obsession with

2706
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:44,640
pandemics that he describes to

2707
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:46,080
McCaskill from the author. I

2708
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:47,190
think it's to McCaskill he

2709
01:25:47,190 --> 01:25:49,530
describes it and then funding

2710
01:25:49,530 --> 01:25:50,730
the study that poo poos

2711
01:25:50,730 --> 01:25:52,470
ivermectin and uses a lot of

2712
01:25:53,130 --> 01:25:55,740
funny statistics and quote

2713
01:25:55,740 --> 01:25:57,570
unquote, science to do so among

2714
01:25:57,570 --> 01:25:59,040
other things. Any thoughts there

2715
01:25:59,040 --> 01:25:59,310
guys?

2716
01:25:59,340 --> 01:26:00,360
My only thought is it's very

2717
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:00,960
creepy.

2718
01:26:03,270 --> 01:26:04,980
To be obsessed with pandemics

2719
01:26:05,100 --> 01:26:06,420
and be obsessed with pandemics

2720
01:26:06,420 --> 01:26:08,040
and not only that, but yeah, the

2721
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:11,490
fact that SBF was the the main

2722
01:26:11,490 --> 01:26:14,730
funder of a study that poo pooed

2723
01:26:15,030 --> 01:26:16,920
would have come to me known as

2724
01:26:18,090 --> 01:26:20,760
very reliable. Early treatments

2725
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:23,130
for COVID is a bit perplexing.

2726
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:25,680
Okay, yeah. So so just to add a

2727
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:26,730
little color on some of the

2728
01:26:26,730 --> 01:26:28,410
stuff Whitney mentioned, first,

2729
01:26:28,620 --> 01:26:31,680
yeah, that study with ivermectin

2730
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:33,660
that said it doesn't work. It

2731
01:26:33,660 --> 01:26:35,460
was the Future Fund FTX Future

2732
01:26:35,460 --> 01:26:37,170
Fund that that funded that. And,

2733
01:26:37,590 --> 01:26:38,790
as far as I know, I don't think

2734
01:26:38,820 --> 01:26:40,410
I think that study has not

2735
01:26:40,410 --> 01:26:41,610
released a lot of their data,

2736
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:43,020
their underlying data. So that's

2737
01:26:43,020 --> 01:26:43,950
one of the reasons it's

2738
01:26:43,950 --> 01:26:46,350
considered sketchy. Some other

2739
01:26:46,350 --> 01:26:47,850
pandemic stuff that I've noticed

2740
01:26:47,850 --> 01:26:49,590
that I'll mention is, as we

2741
01:26:49,590 --> 01:26:52,800
discussed earlier, also EA

2742
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:55,020
adherent and former Jane Street

2743
01:26:55,020 --> 01:26:57,300
employee, Gabe Venkman. Fried

2744
01:26:57,300 --> 01:26:59,550
Sam's brother, is running an

2745
01:26:59,550 --> 01:27:00,930
organization called guarding

2746
01:27:00,930 --> 01:27:02,070
against pandemics, which I

2747
01:27:02,070 --> 01:27:03,660
believe was completely funded by

2748
01:27:03,660 --> 01:27:05,730
OSPF. So, you know, again, it's

2749
01:27:05,730 --> 01:27:07,170
not just him. It's his brother

2750
01:27:07,170 --> 01:27:08,790
who's like really obsessed with

2751
01:27:08,820 --> 01:27:10,350
you know, pandemics and pandemic

2752
01:27:10,350 --> 01:27:12,690
preparedness. This other guy's

2753
01:27:12,690 --> 01:27:16,590
salami, who was an FTX. Employee

2754
01:27:16,620 --> 01:27:18,150
pretty high up, I believe in the

2755
01:27:18,150 --> 01:27:20,400
in the organization. He's wasn't

2756
01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:22,050
executive. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

2757
01:27:22,050 --> 01:27:23,430
he's been propped up by a lot of

2758
01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:24,990
people trying to trying to say

2759
01:27:24,990 --> 01:27:26,580
that owed the donations, the

2760
01:27:26,580 --> 01:27:28,050
Democrats don't matter, because

2761
01:27:28,050 --> 01:27:29,400
look at this guy's salami,

2762
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:31,860
giving to the GOP. But when you

2763
01:27:31,860 --> 01:27:33,990
look into the details of what

2764
01:27:33,990 --> 01:27:35,220
salami was funding, he wasn't

2765
01:27:35,220 --> 01:27:36,390
like giving to Donald Trump or

2766
01:27:36,390 --> 01:27:37,740
anything he was giving to

2767
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:39,960
primaries, GOP primaries, and

2768
01:27:40,170 --> 01:27:42,540
when you look deeper, the the

2769
01:27:42,540 --> 01:27:44,220
primary candidates that he was

2770
01:27:44,220 --> 01:27:45,390
supporting, were the ones that

2771
01:27:45,390 --> 01:27:47,370
were focused, hyper focused on

2772
01:27:47,370 --> 01:27:49,890
pandemics. Again, super weird,

2773
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:51,390
what is going on? And when you

2774
01:27:51,420 --> 01:27:52,500
and when you see some interviews

2775
01:27:52,500 --> 01:27:53,580
with the salami guy, you don't

2776
01:27:53,580 --> 01:27:54,660
see he doesn't seem like the

2777
01:27:54,660 --> 01:27:55,590
kind of guy that's like really

2778
01:27:55,590 --> 01:27:57,090
worried about like pandemics,

2779
01:27:57,090 --> 01:27:58,500
you know? So that's, that's

2780
01:27:58,500 --> 01:28:00,300
bizarre, as well. And then I

2781
01:28:00,300 --> 01:28:02,730
just wanted to note that if you

2782
01:28:02,730 --> 01:28:04,860
think about the COVID response,

2783
01:28:04,950 --> 01:28:06,930
the philosophical underpinnings

2784
01:28:06,930 --> 01:28:08,490
to us losing our freedoms,

2785
01:28:08,730 --> 01:28:11,580
during COVID, it goes, it again

2786
01:28:11,580 --> 01:28:13,440
ties in perfectly with Effective

2787
01:28:13,440 --> 01:28:15,780
Altruism, because in Effective

2788
01:28:15,780 --> 01:28:17,790
Altruism, you always have to

2789
01:28:17,790 --> 01:28:20,010
make a cold calculated decision

2790
01:28:20,310 --> 01:28:22,020
on what's best for the most

2791
01:28:22,020 --> 01:28:22,980
amount of people, right, like,

2792
01:28:22,980 --> 01:28:24,780
what's the most good, you could

2793
01:28:24,780 --> 01:28:26,520
do? And freedom or civil

2794
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:28,530
liberties plays zero role in

2795
01:28:28,530 --> 01:28:29,940
that, right? That's not part of

2796
01:28:29,940 --> 01:28:31,890
its ethics. So if you think

2797
01:28:31,890 --> 01:28:34,050
about these, some of the things

2798
01:28:34,050 --> 01:28:35,610
that were done in particular,

2799
01:28:35,850 --> 01:28:37,590
the, you know, let's turn

2800
01:28:37,590 --> 01:28:39,360
unvaccinated people into second

2801
01:28:39,420 --> 01:28:41,070
second class citizens or they

2802
01:28:41,070 --> 01:28:41,760
shouldn't be able to do

2803
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:43,440
anything, they should get fired,

2804
01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:44,190
because they won't take an

2805
01:28:44,190 --> 01:28:46,680
experimental vaccine or

2806
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:50,460
injection. That is exactly what

2807
01:28:50,460 --> 01:28:51,750
an effective altruists would

2808
01:28:51,750 --> 01:28:54,060
argue, would he they would argue

2809
01:28:54,060 --> 01:28:56,040
that, that the greatest good is

2810
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:57,570
done by vaccinating everybody.

2811
01:28:57,570 --> 01:28:59,400
So everybody must do it. And if

2812
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:00,600
you don't, you're a bad person

2813
01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:02,340
and need to be punished. So, you

2814
01:29:02,340 --> 01:29:03,690
know, it actually does make

2815
01:29:03,690 --> 01:29:06,030
sense in that in that sense,

2816
01:29:06,030 --> 01:29:10,560
because if you want to create

2817
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:12,720
and mold a society in which a

2818
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:16,890
few people determine how you

2819
01:29:16,890 --> 01:29:19,470
should live, Effective Altruism

2820
01:29:19,470 --> 01:29:21,450
provides that bedrock philosophy

2821
01:29:21,480 --> 01:29:23,490
for that. And so, you know,

2822
01:29:23,520 --> 01:29:24,960
again, it's this twisted

2823
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:26,790
philosophy, it's a philosophy

2824
01:29:26,790 --> 01:29:28,710
that everyone effectively in

2825
01:29:28,710 --> 01:29:31,230
power, the oligarchy, the state

2826
01:29:31,230 --> 01:29:33,090
the intelligence agencies, they

2827
01:29:33,090 --> 01:29:36,780
all want to push humanity into

2828
01:29:36,780 --> 01:29:37,890
accepting this sort of

2829
01:29:37,890 --> 01:29:40,050
philosophy. So yeah,

2830
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:42,150
so a couple things I want to add

2831
01:29:42,150 --> 01:29:43,470
about the pandemic stuff so you

2832
01:29:43,470 --> 01:29:44,520
also have more recently

2833
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:46,590
revelations that FTX or really,

2834
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:48,030
I guess it sandbank, been freed

2835
01:29:48,270 --> 01:29:51,180
is funding major media outlets

2836
01:29:51,210 --> 01:29:52,860
like pro publica and also the

2837
01:29:52,860 --> 01:29:55,080
intercept and his focus in in

2838
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:56,340
providing those funds was to

2839
01:29:56,340 --> 01:29:57,480
have them report more on

2840
01:29:57,480 --> 01:29:59,910
biosecurity policy, which is a

2841
01:29:59,910 --> 01:30:01,170
lot Out of this and pandemic

2842
01:30:01,170 --> 01:30:03,210
preparedness, I believe so we

2843
01:30:03,210 --> 01:30:04,410
can assume based on how those

2844
01:30:04,410 --> 01:30:05,790
outlets covered COVID What type

2845
01:30:05,790 --> 01:30:07,440
of coverage that would be and

2846
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:10,200
what it would not be. Right. And

2847
01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:11,280
then the other group he funded

2848
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:12,570
was the Johns Hopkins Center for

2849
01:30:12,570 --> 01:30:14,190
Health Security, which most

2850
01:30:14,190 --> 01:30:15,120
people probably not because they

2851
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:16,860
moderated event 201. But if

2852
01:30:16,860 --> 01:30:18,030
you're familiar with my work

2853
01:30:18,030 --> 01:30:19,020
that used to be the center for

2854
01:30:19,020 --> 01:30:20,400
civilian biodefense studies, and

2855
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:21,600
these are the people that wrote

2856
01:30:22,260 --> 01:30:24,090
Dark Winter before the anthrax

2857
01:30:24,090 --> 01:30:26,610
attacks, that predicted a lot of

2858
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:28,440
the aspects of the aspect of the

2859
01:30:28,440 --> 01:30:29,850
of the anthrax attacks and so

2860
01:30:29,850 --> 01:30:31,200
on, for people that are

2861
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:33,600
familiar, my work on that you

2862
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:34,980
can go read the series about it

2863
01:30:35,010 --> 01:30:38,970
on unlimited hangout.com. And,

2864
01:30:39,150 --> 01:30:41,790
you know, the other guy that's

2865
01:30:41,790 --> 01:30:42,840
tied up with this movement, so

2866
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:44,250
Peter Singer, and William

2867
01:30:44,250 --> 01:30:45,480
McCaskill are to the names and

2868
01:30:45,480 --> 01:30:46,890
there's a direct like mentor

2869
01:30:46,890 --> 01:30:49,230
mentee relationship there. Toby

2870
01:30:49,230 --> 01:30:51,030
ord is the other guy that runs a

2871
01:30:51,030 --> 01:30:52,410
founder of this movement, and

2872
01:30:52,410 --> 01:30:53,550
I'm not sure exactly where he

2873
01:30:53,550 --> 01:30:54,720
fits into the mechanic with

2874
01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:58,260
McCaskill and singer, but he, I

2875
01:30:58,260 --> 01:30:59,670
think Mikey sent this to me, he

2876
01:30:59,670 --> 01:31:01,200
was talking about how he

2877
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:02,460
collaborated with a guy named

2878
01:31:02,460 --> 01:31:04,560
Jason Metheny. And so Jason

2879
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:06,600
Matheny is in this article that

2880
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:08,340
I was saying is talking He's

2881
01:31:08,370 --> 01:31:09,990
He's described as the CEO of

2882
01:31:09,990 --> 01:31:11,250
Rand Corporation, which

2883
01:31:11,250 --> 01:31:12,450
historically has been one of the

2884
01:31:12,450 --> 01:31:14,550
spookiest military contractors

2885
01:31:14,550 --> 01:31:16,020
and research organizations of

2886
01:31:16,020 --> 01:31:18,600
all in the United States. But

2887
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:20,100
Jason Metheny also used to work

2888
01:31:20,100 --> 01:31:21,390
for the Center for Johns Hopkins

2889
01:31:21,390 --> 01:31:23,220
for health security under the

2890
01:31:23,220 --> 01:31:24,300
people that wrote the Dark

2891
01:31:24,300 --> 01:31:25,860
Winter exercise. And he also

2892
01:31:25,860 --> 01:31:27,780
used to lead AI ARPA, which is

2893
01:31:27,780 --> 01:31:29,130
the intelligence community's

2894
01:31:29,130 --> 01:31:31,290
DARPA equivalent. And he's also

2895
01:31:31,290 --> 01:31:32,490
on the National Security

2896
01:31:32,490 --> 01:31:33,630
Commission for artificial

2897
01:31:33,630 --> 01:31:34,830
intelligence, which is full of

2898
01:31:34,830 --> 01:31:36,480
spooks and the top people in

2899
01:31:36,480 --> 01:31:37,920
Silicon Valley that, you know,

2900
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:40,440
you know, the big Silicon Valley

2901
01:31:40,440 --> 01:31:41,940
firms who double is military and

2902
01:31:41,940 --> 01:31:44,610
government contractors. And that

2903
01:31:44,610 --> 01:31:46,650
connection I find really telling

2904
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:48,930
about, you know, these aren't

2905
01:31:48,930 --> 01:31:51,810
just philosophers, to say the

2906
01:31:51,810 --> 01:31:53,850
very least. So there's

2907
01:31:53,850 --> 01:31:55,710
definitely a very disturbing

2908
01:31:56,550 --> 01:31:58,080
network here with a particular

2909
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:00,450
agenda. And they have a cover

2910
01:32:00,450 --> 01:32:01,830
story, which is they're

2911
01:32:01,830 --> 01:32:03,480
altruistic and they know what's

2912
01:32:03,480 --> 01:32:05,070
best for everyone better than

2913
01:32:05,070 --> 01:32:06,780
regular people do, like we've

2914
01:32:06,780 --> 01:32:08,640
been talking about. And so I

2915
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:10,260
think by in looking at FTX,

2916
01:32:10,260 --> 01:32:11,910
you're starting to see into this

2917
01:32:12,210 --> 01:32:14,640
network that was behind them, I

2918
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:15,660
have a feeling they're not just

2919
01:32:15,660 --> 01:32:17,610
behind FTX are probably behind

2920
01:32:17,610 --> 01:32:18,690
some other stuff. But this

2921
01:32:18,690 --> 01:32:19,800
particular group that we're

2922
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:20,970
starting to see come into focus

2923
01:32:20,970 --> 01:32:22,260
here, you know, that we've been

2924
01:32:22,260 --> 01:32:23,370
talking about over the course of

2925
01:32:23,370 --> 01:32:24,930
the podcast today was really

2926
01:32:24,930 --> 01:32:26,910
angling for a major role in the

2927
01:32:26,910 --> 01:32:28,620
technocracy to come, or at least

2928
01:32:28,620 --> 01:32:30,630
at the powers that be hope will

2929
01:32:30,630 --> 01:32:33,360
come. And I think it's really,

2930
01:32:33,660 --> 01:32:35,100
this group needs a lot more

2931
01:32:35,100 --> 01:32:36,630
attention than they are getting

2932
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:37,950
to say the very least, you know,

2933
01:32:37,980 --> 01:32:39,210
the fact that you have like musk

2934
01:32:39,210 --> 01:32:40,800
events and open philanthropy

2935
01:32:41,340 --> 01:32:42,510
tied up in here, which is one of

2936
01:32:42,510 --> 01:32:43,710
the biggest donors to like

2937
01:32:43,710 --> 01:32:46,110
biosecurity stuff in general,

2938
01:32:46,290 --> 01:32:47,550
aside from maybe the Wellcome

2939
01:32:47,550 --> 01:32:48,870
Trust and Gates Foundation, I

2940
01:32:48,870 --> 01:32:49,890
mean, they're like, really up

2941
01:32:49,890 --> 01:32:51,420
there, not quite at that level,

2942
01:32:51,420 --> 01:32:52,710
but very close to it when it

2943
01:32:52,710 --> 01:32:54,150
comes to funding this kind of

2944
01:32:54,150 --> 01:32:56,070
stuff. You know, there's a lot

2945
01:32:56,070 --> 01:32:57,690
to be said, and you know, this

2946
01:32:57,690 --> 01:33:00,180
whole DNC Ukraine stuff before

2947
01:33:00,180 --> 01:33:01,710
the midterms, and all of that is

2948
01:33:01,710 --> 01:33:03,990
also just mind boggling. I don't

2949
01:33:03,990 --> 01:33:04,830
know if you guys want to talk

2950
01:33:04,830 --> 01:33:06,240
about any of those aspects

2951
01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:07,770
before we get to wrapping up

2952
01:33:07,770 --> 01:33:08,130
here.

2953
01:33:08,250 --> 01:33:12,510
Another very odd timing thing is

2954
01:33:12,540 --> 01:33:15,690
the going back to SBS mother,

2955
01:33:15,690 --> 01:33:19,380
Barbara, and she runs a massive

2956
01:33:19,530 --> 01:33:22,830
pack that donates to Democratic

2957
01:33:22,830 --> 01:33:25,440
candidates and the timing of FTX

2958
01:33:25,440 --> 01:33:27,780
launching, and a massive

2959
01:33:28,290 --> 01:33:31,080
donation she made to the

2960
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:33,390
Democratic Party is a bit odd, I

2961
01:33:33,390 --> 01:33:35,580
believe FTX was founded. And

2962
01:33:35,580 --> 01:33:36,900
then a month later, she was able

2963
01:33:36,900 --> 01:33:38,850
to donate 10s of millions of

2964
01:33:38,850 --> 01:33:39,660
dollars. Yeah, I

2965
01:33:39,660 --> 01:33:41,100
would add, just to put some

2966
01:33:41,100 --> 01:33:42,240
color on what you were saying.

2967
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:44,340
Whitney? So Jason Ruthenia, who

2968
01:33:44,340 --> 01:33:46,920
you mentioned, that was or Toby

2969
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:49,110
ords friend at Oxford, or

2970
01:33:49,110 --> 01:33:50,700
colleague and friend at Oxford.

2971
01:33:50,700 --> 01:33:53,790
Yeah. pointed, he pointed or in

2972
01:33:53,790 --> 01:33:56,070
a particular direction, to look

2973
01:33:56,070 --> 01:33:58,620
at a project called DCP. To. So

2974
01:33:58,650 --> 01:33:59,850
yeah, again, it's interesting

2975
01:33:59,850 --> 01:34:00,780
that all of a sudden, these

2976
01:34:00,780 --> 01:34:01,770
people like as you mentioned,

2977
01:34:01,770 --> 01:34:04,620
he's a spooky guy is whispering

2978
01:34:04,620 --> 01:34:08,940
in the ear of ord at Oxford. You

2979
01:34:08,940 --> 01:34:11,460
know, to take take a look at

2980
01:34:11,460 --> 01:34:12,600
this, you know, an order, of

2981
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:14,490
course, is one of the one of the

2982
01:34:14,490 --> 01:34:15,570
considered one of the founding,

2983
01:34:15,570 --> 01:34:17,940
you know, intellectual leaders

2984
01:34:17,940 --> 01:34:19,500
of EA. The other thing is just

2985
01:34:19,530 --> 01:34:21,390
specifically so this is from the

2986
01:34:21,390 --> 01:34:22,980
Vox article. And just to give

2987
01:34:22,980 --> 01:34:24,300
some details. So it says open

2988
01:34:24,300 --> 01:34:26,400
philanthropy spent over 65

2989
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:27,930
million on on these issues,

2990
01:34:27,930 --> 01:34:29,490
including seven and eight figure

2991
01:34:29,490 --> 01:34:31,290
grants to the Johns Hopkins

2992
01:34:31,290 --> 01:34:33,240
Center for Health Security, and

2993
01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:34,980
the nuclear threat initiatives

2994
01:34:34,980 --> 01:34:37,230
bio defense team. I think that

2995
01:34:37,260 --> 01:34:38,370
you had some thoughts on the new

2996
01:34:38,550 --> 01:34:40,200
anti AI as well, I think.

2997
01:34:40,350 --> 01:34:41,610
Yeah, they were co founded by

2998
01:34:41,610 --> 01:34:43,860
Ted Turner and Sam Nunn, who Sam

2999
01:34:43,860 --> 01:34:44,670
known as sort of one of the

3000
01:34:44,670 --> 01:34:45,630
architects a lot of this

3001
01:34:45,630 --> 01:34:47,400
biosecurity legislation and he

3002
01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:50,250
was the EU played the president

3003
01:34:50,250 --> 01:34:51,510
and the Dark Winter anthrax

3004
01:34:51,510 --> 01:34:53,370
simulation, and has a lot of

3005
01:34:53,370 --> 01:34:55,020
ties to you know, the particular

3006
01:34:55,020 --> 01:34:56,130
network that seems to have been

3007
01:34:56,130 --> 01:34:57,990
behind the 2001 anthrax attacks

3008
01:34:57,990 --> 01:35:00,450
among other things, and People

3009
01:35:00,450 --> 01:35:01,740
like Margaret Hamburg, for

3010
01:35:01,740 --> 01:35:04,350
example, who pot who was a dark

3011
01:35:04,350 --> 01:35:06,240
winter too and pops up and she

3012
01:35:06,240 --> 01:35:07,740
was I think Obama's FDA

3013
01:35:07,740 --> 01:35:08,970
commissioner. She was on this

3014
01:35:08,970 --> 01:35:10,800
panel in 2019, with Fauci where

3015
01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:11,820
they talk about getting rid of

3016
01:35:11,820 --> 01:35:13,590
regulations to ram through mRNA

3017
01:35:13,590 --> 01:35:16,020
vaccines and stuff. She was a

3018
01:35:16,020 --> 01:35:18,720
big name at NTI for a while as

3019
01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:20,310
well, I think up until she

3020
01:35:20,310 --> 01:35:21,900
became FDA commissioner, she

3021
01:35:21,900 --> 01:35:22,800
might still be there. But

3022
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:24,330
they're a big player in in

3023
01:35:24,330 --> 01:35:26,880
biosecurity land to say, to say

3024
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:28,110
the very least I mean, these are

3025
01:35:28,110 --> 01:35:29,880
very, like intelligence

3026
01:35:29,880 --> 01:35:31,800
connected organizations, sort of

3027
01:35:31,800 --> 01:35:33,720
where intelligence bleeds into

3028
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:36,450
the big pharma healthcare stuff,

3029
01:35:36,450 --> 01:35:37,320
because I mean, if you look at

3030
01:35:37,320 --> 01:35:38,430
Big Pharma, right, there's

3031
01:35:38,430 --> 01:35:39,870
longstanding connections to

3032
01:35:39,900 --> 01:35:41,610
intelligence in the military. I

3033
01:35:41,610 --> 01:35:42,690
mean, keep in mind, right, like

3034
01:35:42,690 --> 01:35:43,950
a great example is Donald

3035
01:35:43,950 --> 01:35:46,230
Rumsfeld, who went between

3036
01:35:46,230 --> 01:35:47,790
stents at Secretary of Defense

3037
01:35:47,790 --> 01:35:50,130
being a top executive at a JD

3038
01:35:50,130 --> 01:35:51,390
sirloin CO which produces

3039
01:35:51,390 --> 01:35:52,410
aspartame, but I think was

3040
01:35:52,410 --> 01:35:53,670
ostensibly a pharmaceutical

3041
01:35:53,670 --> 01:35:55,230
company. And then also at

3042
01:35:55,230 --> 01:35:56,760
Gilead, which is the producer of

3043
01:35:56,760 --> 01:35:58,920
remdesivir. And some of these in

3044
01:35:58,920 --> 01:36:00,600
Tamiflu and some of these other,

3045
01:36:01,230 --> 01:36:02,670
you know, antivirals that have

3046
01:36:02,670 --> 01:36:04,410
been played to, you know, made a

3047
01:36:04,410 --> 01:36:05,790
lot of money off of a lot of

3048
01:36:05,790 --> 01:36:07,860
these biosecurity scares of the

3049
01:36:07,860 --> 01:36:09,630
past, including bird flu, and,

3050
01:36:09,870 --> 01:36:10,860
you know, more recently, the

3051
01:36:10,860 --> 01:36:12,990
COVID-19 stuff. So, you know,

3052
01:36:12,990 --> 01:36:14,310
these are these are not small

3053
01:36:14,310 --> 01:36:16,020
time players, they're promoting

3054
01:36:16,020 --> 01:36:17,310
to and if you're, you know,

3055
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:19,500
donating to these organizations,

3056
01:36:19,500 --> 01:36:20,880
because you think they can do

3057
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:22,350
the most good. I mean, if you're

3058
01:36:22,350 --> 01:36:23,850
looking at your track record,

3059
01:36:23,850 --> 01:36:25,140
what they do is they advance the

3060
01:36:25,140 --> 01:36:26,220
biosecurity state and

3061
01:36:26,220 --> 01:36:28,020
technocracy and they take away

3062
01:36:28,020 --> 01:36:29,040
our rights and our civil

3063
01:36:29,040 --> 01:36:31,110
liberties, or at least create

3064
01:36:31,110 --> 01:36:33,810
policy for that to be done. And,

3065
01:36:33,810 --> 01:36:35,520
you know, as we've talked about

3066
01:36:35,550 --> 01:36:37,470
their particular philosophy, you

3067
01:36:37,470 --> 01:36:39,510
know, when you follow it to the

3068
01:36:39,540 --> 01:36:41,370
same conclusion, these

3069
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:43,140
particular effective altruists,

3070
01:36:43,170 --> 01:36:44,400
were talking about today, follow

3071
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:46,650
it, you end up in that same same

3072
01:36:46,650 --> 01:36:48,630
endpoint. Right. So I may have

3073
01:36:48,630 --> 01:36:49,680
misspoke. And then when when I

3074
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:51,240
said FTX funded the Johns

3075
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:52,110
Hopkins centers for health

3076
01:36:52,110 --> 01:36:54,390
security, it may have been open

3077
01:36:54,390 --> 01:36:55,950
philanthropy that did that I'll

3078
01:36:55,950 --> 01:36:57,690
have to go double check if FTX

3079
01:36:57,690 --> 01:36:59,820
actually did that. So my mistake

3080
01:36:59,820 --> 01:37:02,220
there for not being 100% on

3081
01:37:02,220 --> 01:37:03,330
that. But there definitely this

3082
01:37:03,330 --> 01:37:04,830
particular network Effective

3083
01:37:04,830 --> 01:37:06,990
Altruism is funding. A lot of

3084
01:37:06,990 --> 01:37:08,910
very interesting things that

3085
01:37:08,910 --> 01:37:11,310
seem to overlap really converge

3086
01:37:11,310 --> 01:37:13,200
around the idea of, you know,

3087
01:37:13,230 --> 01:37:15,360
scientific dictatorship. At the

3088
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:16,650
end of the day. Absolutely.

3089
01:37:16,650 --> 01:37:19,830
Yeah. All right. So we're coming

3090
01:37:19,830 --> 01:37:21,660
up to, you know, close to two

3091
01:37:21,660 --> 01:37:23,100
ish hours or so. So it's

3092
01:37:23,100 --> 01:37:25,350
probably a good time to, unless

3093
01:37:25,350 --> 01:37:26,460
there's any other aspect of the

3094
01:37:26,460 --> 01:37:28,110
case you guys don't have the NC

3095
01:37:28,110 --> 01:37:29,550
we didn't talk about Ukraine, or

3096
01:37:29,550 --> 01:37:30,720
some of the allegations there

3097
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:31,860
about money being funneled back

3098
01:37:31,860 --> 01:37:33,030
to the DNC and all that, that

3099
01:37:33,030 --> 01:37:34,350
have sort of emerged recently.

3100
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:35,940
But we can talk about some of

3101
01:37:35,940 --> 01:37:39,210
our, you know, conclusions areas

3102
01:37:39,210 --> 01:37:40,920
for further research, you know,

3103
01:37:40,950 --> 01:37:43,320
because I'm a lot of people that

3104
01:37:43,320 --> 01:37:45,120
listen to this podcast and other

3105
01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:46,530
podcasts, I presume, as well,

3106
01:37:47,100 --> 01:37:48,900
that are cover similar themes

3107
01:37:48,900 --> 01:37:50,910
are eager to look into some of

3108
01:37:50,910 --> 01:37:53,220
this stuff. Because I think even

3109
01:37:53,250 --> 01:37:54,720
Elon Musk had to say that a lot

3110
01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:57,390
of the big stories coming or big

3111
01:37:57,390 --> 01:37:59,220
revelations about FTX had been

3112
01:37:59,250 --> 01:38:01,350
you know, made by quote unquote,

3113
01:38:01,380 --> 01:38:03,570
regular people, non journalists

3114
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,300
on social media and such. So

3115
01:38:06,810 --> 01:38:07,860
maybe we can go over some of

3116
01:38:07,860 --> 01:38:08,430
those things.

3117
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:10,260
Twitter sleuth, really, really

3118
01:38:10,260 --> 01:38:11,940
pushing, pushing things forward

3119
01:38:11,940 --> 01:38:14,250
here. I do think we should

3120
01:38:14,250 --> 01:38:15,930
mention there is another smoking

3121
01:38:15,930 --> 01:38:18,090
gun. That really highlights some

3122
01:38:18,090 --> 01:38:21,540
potential FTX government

3123
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:23,670
corruption. All right, yeah.

3124
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:26,160
Which is the fact that one of

3125
01:38:26,160 --> 01:38:28,740
their subsidiaries was able to

3126
01:38:28,740 --> 01:38:31,590
buy a CFTC regulated clearing

3127
01:38:31,590 --> 01:38:34,560
house. So there's options

3128
01:38:35,160 --> 01:38:37,080
trading company called ledger X

3129
01:38:37,110 --> 01:38:39,720
that FTX us via one of their

3130
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:41,040
subsidiaries fleet was called

3131
01:38:41,040 --> 01:38:44,730
Wilshire realms was able to last

3132
01:38:44,730 --> 01:38:48,000
realm shires Yes. West whelm

3133
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:49,740
shires was able to purchase

3134
01:38:50,190 --> 01:38:53,010
ledger X. And again, to me that

3135
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:55,620
this is a smoking gun because if

3136
01:38:55,620 --> 01:38:57,150
you understand the nature of

3137
01:38:57,990 --> 01:39:00,960
like how hard it is to actually

3138
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:02,220
get the license to become a

3139
01:39:02,220 --> 01:39:03,270
clearing house in the first

3140
01:39:03,270 --> 01:39:07,410
place, it's a bit odd that FTX

3141
01:39:07,410 --> 01:39:08,400
was able to purchase this

3142
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:09,900
clearing house because you think

3143
01:39:10,500 --> 01:39:12,540
the CFTC was doing proper due

3144
01:39:12,540 --> 01:39:14,340
diligence, they would be asking

3145
01:39:14,340 --> 01:39:17,940
for bank statements and very

3146
01:39:18,390 --> 01:39:21,180
fundamental financial statements

3147
01:39:21,210 --> 01:39:22,620
that would be necessary to get

3148
01:39:22,620 --> 01:39:24,750
the the okay to purchase and,

3149
01:39:24,900 --> 01:39:26,190
and operate this regulated

3150
01:39:26,190 --> 01:39:28,920
clearing house. And as we know,

3151
01:39:30,090 --> 01:39:31,590
FTX didn't even have a bank

3152
01:39:31,590 --> 01:39:33,090
account, when they when they

3153
01:39:33,540 --> 01:39:34,860
wound up purchasing this

3154
01:39:34,860 --> 01:39:36,150
clearing house to me that

3155
01:39:36,150 --> 01:39:38,160
signals that there's some

3156
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:40,290
potential government involvement

3157
01:39:40,350 --> 01:39:42,690
in terms of them allowing this

3158
01:39:42,690 --> 01:39:45,600
massive fraud to continue and to

3159
01:39:45,870 --> 01:39:47,400
grow to as large as it did.

3160
01:39:47,789 --> 01:39:49,379
Yeah, we'll see if that comes up

3161
01:39:49,379 --> 01:39:51,599
and Maxine Waters investigation

3162
01:39:51,599 --> 01:39:52,949
into FTX What do you think?

3163
01:39:54,960 --> 01:39:56,130
I'm not holding my breath.

3164
01:39:56,220 --> 01:39:59,250
Yeah, no. I mean, it's it's

3165
01:39:59,250 --> 01:40:00,360
mental at this point. It sort of

3166
01:40:00,360 --> 01:40:01,260
reminds me of like when they

3167
01:40:01,260 --> 01:40:02,460
tried to put Henry Kissinger in

3168
01:40:02,460 --> 01:40:03,930
charge of the 911 Commission,

3169
01:40:03,960 --> 01:40:05,070
like you pick a person with a

3170
01:40:05,070 --> 01:40:06,540
huge, like obvious conflict of

3171
01:40:06,540 --> 01:40:07,980
interest and investigating stuff

3172
01:40:07,980 --> 01:40:09,450
to like lead the investigation.

3173
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:12,210
And these types of things that

3174
01:40:12,210 --> 01:40:13,710
seems to be like exactly what

3175
01:40:13,710 --> 01:40:15,210
happens. So, you know, they have

3176
01:40:15,210 --> 01:40:16,920
the person who's blowing SPF

3177
01:40:16,920 --> 01:40:19,320
kisses and cuddling up with him

3178
01:40:19,320 --> 01:40:20,850
for photo ops and got like,

3179
01:40:21,030 --> 01:40:22,620
hundreds of 1000s of dollars

3180
01:40:22,620 --> 01:40:24,750
directly from him. I mean, she's

3181
01:40:24,750 --> 01:40:25,860
gonna investigate him now.

3182
01:40:25,860 --> 01:40:26,250
Right?

3183
01:40:27,209 --> 01:40:30,299
Yeah. For me, when he I'll just

3184
01:40:30,689 --> 01:40:32,699
sort of conclude with with my

3185
01:40:32,699 --> 01:40:34,109
final thoughts here. You know,

3186
01:40:34,139 --> 01:40:35,489
first, I just wanted to thank

3187
01:40:35,489 --> 01:40:37,139
you for putting this together.

3188
01:40:37,409 --> 01:40:39,749
I've been in podcast retirement

3189
01:40:39,749 --> 01:40:40,979
for over a year and actually had

3190
01:40:40,979 --> 01:40:42,569
no intention of doing another

3191
01:40:42,569 --> 01:40:44,249
one because sort of checked out

3192
01:40:44,279 --> 01:40:47,639
on that stuff for now. But this

3193
01:40:47,639 --> 01:40:49,439
I felt like was so important.

3194
01:40:49,469 --> 01:40:51,269
And so under covered in the in

3195
01:40:51,269 --> 01:40:52,529
the angles that I felt like

3196
01:40:52,529 --> 01:40:55,559
needed to be explored that I, I

3197
01:40:55,559 --> 01:40:57,089
was happy to come on, and

3198
01:40:57,089 --> 01:40:58,349
certainly based on how this

3199
01:40:58,349 --> 01:40:59,129
conversation, thank

3200
01:40:59,160 --> 01:40:59,580
you,

3201
01:40:59,819 --> 01:41:01,469
thank you, on how this

3202
01:41:01,469 --> 01:41:02,669
conversation has gone, I feel

3203
01:41:02,669 --> 01:41:04,319
like it's, it's achieved, at

3204
01:41:04,319 --> 01:41:05,969
least certainly the objective

3205
01:41:05,969 --> 01:41:07,589
that I wanted, which is, you

3206
01:41:07,589 --> 01:41:10,199
know, to, to say that this whole

3207
01:41:10,199 --> 01:41:12,239
thing stinks. Without a doubt, I

3208
01:41:12,239 --> 01:41:13,919
mean, stinks from the top to the

3209
01:41:13,919 --> 01:41:16,169
bottom. But I think it stinks so

3210
01:41:16,169 --> 01:41:17,459
much in so many different

3211
01:41:17,459 --> 01:41:20,489
tentacle directions, that I

3212
01:41:20,489 --> 01:41:22,349
wanted to focus on what I want,

3213
01:41:22,349 --> 01:41:23,459
you know, what I feel like is

3214
01:41:23,519 --> 01:41:25,139
the most important direction to

3215
01:41:25,139 --> 01:41:26,939
focus on which again, goes back

3216
01:41:26,939 --> 01:41:28,409
to you know, Effective Altruism,

3217
01:41:28,409 --> 01:41:29,909
William McCaskill, what is going

3218
01:41:29,909 --> 01:41:31,529
on there? What is what is that,

3219
01:41:31,529 --> 01:41:33,209
really? And how does it play a

3220
01:41:33,209 --> 01:41:35,909
role in the future, because this

3221
01:41:35,909 --> 01:41:37,229
is not, you know, that network

3222
01:41:37,229 --> 01:41:38,489
is not going to go away. They

3223
01:41:38,489 --> 01:41:40,289
are fabulously wealthy, clearly

3224
01:41:40,289 --> 01:41:42,059
super connected, and have a

3225
01:41:42,059 --> 01:41:44,039
dangerous anti freedom

3226
01:41:44,039 --> 01:41:47,729
philosophy that will, if it if

3227
01:41:47,729 --> 01:41:49,259
it continues to gain traction,

3228
01:41:49,889 --> 01:41:51,149
amongst the movers and shakers

3229
01:41:51,149 --> 01:41:53,159
of the world, is an absolute

3230
01:41:53,159 --> 01:41:54,539
intellectual foundation for

3231
01:41:54,539 --> 01:41:55,349
social credit score,

3232
01:41:55,349 --> 01:41:56,669
technocracy, as you mentioned.

3233
01:41:56,999 --> 01:41:59,009
And that is, you know, if

3234
01:41:59,009 --> 01:42:00,749
anything, other than being a

3235
01:42:00,749 --> 01:42:03,419
parent and husband is my number

3236
01:42:03,419 --> 01:42:06,209
one focus in life to not have

3237
01:42:06,209 --> 01:42:07,649
myself or my front, you know, my

3238
01:42:07,649 --> 01:42:09,959
children and descendants live

3239
01:42:09,959 --> 01:42:13,169
under such a system. So, to me,

3240
01:42:13,169 --> 01:42:14,819
I'm left with, you know, more

3241
01:42:14,819 --> 01:42:16,589
questions than answers still, at

3242
01:42:16,589 --> 01:42:18,779
this point. However, I feel like

3243
01:42:18,839 --> 01:42:20,549
the questions that I'm asking,

3244
01:42:21,419 --> 01:42:22,739
and the directions that I

3245
01:42:23,339 --> 01:42:25,319
encourage others to investigate

3246
01:42:26,129 --> 01:42:27,719
are the right or the proper ones

3247
01:42:27,719 --> 01:42:29,729
to do and so I hope that I know

3248
01:42:29,729 --> 01:42:30,989
you have an audience of people

3249
01:42:30,989 --> 01:42:33,839
who are super, you know,

3250
01:42:33,839 --> 01:42:36,779
motivated to to figure out the

3251
01:42:36,779 --> 01:42:38,069
workings of the world around us

3252
01:42:38,069 --> 01:42:40,919
and have an actually have a free

3253
01:42:41,189 --> 01:42:42,809
future for humanity. So I hope

3254
01:42:42,809 --> 01:42:45,089
that we've we've put enough

3255
01:42:45,089 --> 01:42:47,519
nuggets out there for others to

3256
01:42:47,519 --> 01:42:49,259
carry the torch for forward from

3257
01:42:49,259 --> 01:42:50,879
here on out, and just thanks

3258
01:42:50,879 --> 01:42:52,679
again for having me be a part of

3259
01:42:52,679 --> 01:42:53,009
this.

3260
01:42:54,240 --> 01:42:56,910
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I guess

3261
01:42:56,910 --> 01:42:59,010
in terms of conclusions, then I

3262
01:42:59,010 --> 01:43:00,450
think we can what we've kind of

3263
01:43:00,450 --> 01:43:03,030
agreed on so far. Looks like FTX

3264
01:43:03,030 --> 01:43:04,650
was blown up early, but it's

3265
01:43:04,650 --> 01:43:07,320
still not quite clear. For what

3266
01:43:07,320 --> 01:43:08,820
purpose it was blown up early,

3267
01:43:08,820 --> 01:43:10,800
or what we sort of got a an

3268
01:43:10,830 --> 01:43:12,810
inkling of what you know, FTX is

3269
01:43:12,810 --> 01:43:14,670
original purpose seems to have

3270
01:43:14,670 --> 01:43:16,110
been before it was blown up

3271
01:43:16,110 --> 01:43:18,360
early. So I guess, a big

3272
01:43:18,360 --> 01:43:19,860
question, you know, I have at

3273
01:43:19,860 --> 01:43:21,720
the end of this was, you know,

3274
01:43:21,750 --> 01:43:23,130
how are the groups that were

3275
01:43:23,130 --> 01:43:26,070
behind FTX as an SPS meteoric

3276
01:43:26,070 --> 01:43:27,450
rise, how have they been

3277
01:43:27,480 --> 01:43:30,270
affected by this collapse? And

3278
01:43:30,270 --> 01:43:32,490
it seems like a like, you know,

3279
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:34,050
we've been talking about sort of

3280
01:43:34,050 --> 01:43:36,900
a weak or weak point in the

3281
01:43:36,930 --> 01:43:38,760
aftermath of this collapse is

3282
01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:40,680
the sort of exposure of a quote

3283
01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:42,210
unquote, philosophical movement,

3284
01:43:42,210 --> 01:43:43,410
that doesn't make a lot of sense

3285
01:43:43,410 --> 01:43:44,610
and as a front for something

3286
01:43:44,610 --> 01:43:46,470
else. So I definitely agree with

3287
01:43:46,470 --> 01:43:48,000
you, Mike, that this effective

3288
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:49,470
altruist movement, Willie

3289
01:43:49,470 --> 01:43:52,470
McCaskill, and, you know, their

3290
01:43:52,470 --> 01:43:55,140
associates, and associated funds

3291
01:43:55,140 --> 01:43:56,430
because these guys do move a lot

3292
01:43:56,430 --> 01:43:58,080
of money. And they have a lot of

3293
01:43:58,080 --> 01:43:59,490
different organizations around

3294
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:00,660
and they'll probably start

3295
01:44:00,660 --> 01:44:02,220
scrubbing it sooner than later.

3296
01:44:02,220 --> 01:44:03,300
I mean, if flex Friedman was

3297
01:44:03,300 --> 01:44:05,910
willing to like, take all of his

3298
01:44:05,910 --> 01:44:07,620
interviews of William McCaskill

3299
01:44:07,650 --> 01:44:10,860
down, and then block Marty bent

3300
01:44:10,890 --> 01:44:12,840
for pointing it out. I mean, you

3301
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:14,880
know, I don't, there's something

3302
01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:16,020
they're not, they don't want

3303
01:44:16,020 --> 01:44:17,160
people to look at, and that

3304
01:44:17,190 --> 01:44:18,810
probably means that's the place

3305
01:44:18,870 --> 01:44:20,400
to look at and you have, you

3306
01:44:20,400 --> 01:44:21,660
know, these tendrils coming out

3307
01:44:21,660 --> 01:44:23,130
of that movement that involve

3308
01:44:24,390 --> 01:44:26,250
major aspects of COVID stuff.

3309
01:44:26,250 --> 01:44:27,270
Oh, and one thing I didn't

3310
01:44:27,270 --> 01:44:28,380
mention that I think is

3311
01:44:28,380 --> 01:44:30,300
important to Jane Street with

3312
01:44:30,300 --> 01:44:32,760
all this overlap there, you

3313
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:34,350
know, with this EA movement and

3314
01:44:34,350 --> 01:44:36,930
whatnot, they somehow, according

3315
01:44:36,930 --> 01:44:38,700
to the Financial Times, is one

3316
01:44:38,700 --> 01:44:41,430
of the few firms that knew how

3317
01:44:41,430 --> 01:44:43,860
to trade 2020 before COVID was

3318
01:44:43,860 --> 01:44:45,330
known to most people and you

3319
01:44:45,330 --> 01:44:47,490
know, the debacle of COVID and,

3320
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:49,200
and all the quarantines and all

3321
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:50,340
of that they knew how to trade

3322
01:44:50,340 --> 01:44:52,170
it in advance, and they made

3323
01:44:52,170 --> 01:44:55,200
like 1,000% increase, I had a

3324
01:44:55,200 --> 01:44:57,000
like 1,000% increase in profits

3325
01:44:57,000 --> 01:44:59,010
between 2020 and 2019. Because

3326
01:44:59,010 --> 01:45:00,540
of that, So that's sort of

3327
01:45:00,540 --> 01:45:01,560
suggestive of the way it's

3328
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:02,850
written by the Financial Times

3329
01:45:02,850 --> 01:45:04,380
as for knowledge, and so you

3330
01:45:04,380 --> 01:45:05,700
have the same movement sort of

3331
01:45:05,700 --> 01:45:07,530
involved in vingt. Event 201, it

3332
01:45:07,530 --> 01:45:10,590
definitely raises some eyebrows,

3333
01:45:10,590 --> 01:45:12,780
including mine, to say the very

3334
01:45:12,780 --> 01:45:14,520
least. So I think there is

3335
01:45:14,520 --> 01:45:16,230
definitely a deeper story here.

3336
01:45:16,230 --> 01:45:17,430
And I think, you know, I think

3337
01:45:17,430 --> 01:45:18,660
most people get that. But the

3338
01:45:18,660 --> 01:45:19,680
question is, what should we

3339
01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:21,660
focus in on to try and unravel

3340
01:45:21,660 --> 01:45:22,740
the rest of that deeper story?

3341
01:45:22,740 --> 01:45:23,820
And I think we've sort of gotten

3342
01:45:23,820 --> 01:45:26,160
to big chunks of that, at least

3343
01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:27,930
today. So awesome.

3344
01:45:28,500 --> 01:45:29,910
I think there's a potential that

3345
01:45:30,660 --> 01:45:34,800
SBF has given given us a gift

3346
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:37,800
because it seems that there's a

3347
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:39,360
potential that he was certainly

3348
01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:41,370
the frontman, but he was a

3349
01:45:41,370 --> 01:45:43,050
frontman that went a bit rogue

3350
01:45:43,740 --> 01:45:45,090
and got caught up in the

3351
01:45:45,780 --> 01:45:46,980
competitive nature of the

3352
01:45:46,980 --> 01:45:49,020
cryptocurrency space and really

3353
01:45:49,230 --> 01:45:51,210
allowed this this fraud to be

3354
01:45:51,210 --> 01:45:52,860
unraveled sooner than the

3355
01:45:52,860 --> 01:45:54,060
backers would have liked.

3356
01:45:54,510 --> 01:45:56,340
Because it's become very

3357
01:45:56,340 --> 01:45:59,100
apparent that much of the or

3358
01:45:59,100 --> 01:46:00,840
many people on the FTX team were

3359
01:46:01,020 --> 01:46:03,210
were on stimulants, and they

3360
01:46:03,300 --> 01:46:08,190
were enacting the clearest minds

3361
01:46:08,310 --> 01:46:10,200
and the extent of the fraud at

3362
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:12,120
FTX. Literally something we

3363
01:46:12,120 --> 01:46:12,840
didn't touch on, they were

3364
01:46:12,840 --> 01:46:14,520
literally taking user deposits

3365
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:17,460
and gambling with them. And if

3366
01:46:17,460 --> 01:46:19,680
they were able to simply not do

3367
01:46:19,680 --> 01:46:21,840
that, to take their user

3368
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:24,270
deposits and burn them with bad

3369
01:46:24,270 --> 01:46:26,460
trades, there's a likelihood

3370
01:46:26,460 --> 01:46:29,640
that FTX and Alameda would have

3371
01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:31,350
been able to survive much

3372
01:46:31,350 --> 01:46:35,130
longer. So we might be able to

3373
01:46:35,130 --> 01:46:36,990
give a hat tip to SPF for

3374
01:46:37,020 --> 01:46:39,270
forgetting for going crazy on

3375
01:46:39,270 --> 01:46:42,300
stimulants and becoming becoming

3376
01:46:42,300 --> 01:46:45,150
a big risk taker eventually led

3377
01:46:45,150 --> 01:46:47,760
to his quick downfall and

3378
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:50,190
potentially the downfall or

3379
01:46:50,430 --> 01:46:52,470
highlighting that there. There's

3380
01:46:52,470 --> 01:46:53,490
something going on with this

3381
01:46:53,490 --> 01:46:57,570
Effective Altruism movement. Now

3382
01:46:57,570 --> 01:46:59,640
the attention is there. So we'll

3383
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:01,110
give a hat tip to SPF for that.

3384
01:47:01,530 --> 01:47:03,690
So last question then about SSB

3385
01:47:03,690 --> 01:47:05,520
F then before we wrap up, you

3386
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:06,330
know you have a lot of these

3387
01:47:06,330 --> 01:47:07,320
people that are backed by the

3388
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:08,280
establishment involved in

3389
01:47:08,280 --> 01:47:09,270
financial crime we started I

3390
01:47:09,270 --> 01:47:10,680
started talking about a couple

3391
01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:11,670
of the parallels with Epstein

3392
01:47:11,670 --> 01:47:12,810
Epstein is obviously different

3393
01:47:12,810 --> 01:47:13,740
case. But you also have like

3394
01:47:13,740 --> 01:47:14,850
Elizabeth Holmes, right

3395
01:47:14,850 --> 01:47:17,670
Serrano's terrenos Harvey say it

3396
01:47:17,670 --> 01:47:19,290
and it's basically you know,

3397
01:47:19,290 --> 01:47:20,490
they have she has like Kissinger

3398
01:47:20,490 --> 01:47:21,570
on the board and all these like

3399
01:47:21,690 --> 01:47:23,430
deep state quote unquote guys on

3400
01:47:23,430 --> 01:47:25,500
the board. And then was recently

3401
01:47:25,500 --> 01:47:26,640
you know, sentenced to like 11

3402
01:47:26,640 --> 01:47:28,200
years for fraud and stuff. And

3403
01:47:28,200 --> 01:47:29,730
there's been no efforts to

3404
01:47:29,790 --> 01:47:31,860
arrest SPF or anyone else tied

3405
01:47:31,860 --> 01:47:34,080
up with FTX. do you what do you

3406
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:35,580
guys see happening there? Or do

3407
01:47:35,580 --> 01:47:36,900
you think he could potentially

3408
01:47:36,900 --> 01:47:38,430
even be Epstein?

3409
01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:41,310
I think it's it's extremely odd

3410
01:47:41,310 --> 01:47:43,170
that he has not been apprehended

3411
01:47:43,170 --> 01:47:46,470
yet. So that to me signals that

3412
01:47:46,470 --> 01:47:48,750
he's being protected to some

3413
01:47:48,750 --> 01:47:50,430
degree and whether or not he

3414
01:47:50,430 --> 01:47:51,510
continues to be protected

3415
01:47:51,510 --> 01:47:52,530
because of all the information

3416
01:47:52,530 --> 01:47:54,120
he has access to and all the

3417
01:47:54,840 --> 01:47:57,060
dead bodies that that he knows

3418
01:47:57,060 --> 01:48:00,000
are associated with his company

3419
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:01,740
and the movement behind it. I

3420
01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:03,180
wouldn't be wouldn't be

3421
01:48:03,180 --> 01:48:05,160
surprised if something happens.

3422
01:48:05,400 --> 01:48:08,130
But it is really telling that he

3423
01:48:08,130 --> 01:48:10,290
has not been arrested yet. Like

3424
01:48:10,290 --> 01:48:11,340
you mentioned earlier, Whitney

3425
01:48:11,340 --> 01:48:12,750
Bernie Madoff was arrested

3426
01:48:12,780 --> 01:48:15,390
immediately. It seems that SPF

3427
01:48:15,390 --> 01:48:17,040
is being allowed to just putz

3428
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:18,780
around the Bahamas without

3429
01:48:18,810 --> 01:48:20,340
really worrying about being

3430
01:48:20,340 --> 01:48:21,000
apprehended?

3431
01:48:21,210 --> 01:48:22,470
Yeah, well, you know, Jeffrey

3432
01:48:22,470 --> 01:48:24,360
Epstein in the late 80s executed

3433
01:48:24,360 --> 01:48:25,260
what was then I think, the

3434
01:48:25,260 --> 01:48:26,460
biggest Ponzi scheme in US

3435
01:48:26,460 --> 01:48:28,080
history at towers financial with

3436
01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:29,580
Steve Hoffenberg. And his name

3437
01:48:29,580 --> 01:48:30,630
was dropped from the case. And

3438
01:48:30,630 --> 01:48:31,620
then he goes and starts

3439
01:48:31,620 --> 01:48:32,850
fundraising for the Clintons,

3440
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:35,940
right? So I mean, there's people

3441
01:48:35,940 --> 01:48:37,140
that get away with this massive

3442
01:48:37,140 --> 01:48:38,250
fraud, and then they use them

3443
01:48:38,250 --> 01:48:39,300
again for something else if

3444
01:48:39,300 --> 01:48:40,080
they're good enough. The

3445
01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:42,300
question is, is SBF actually

3446
01:48:42,300 --> 01:48:44,160
talented at financial Googly

3447
01:48:44,160 --> 01:48:47,190
guck. And crime? Like Epstein

3448
01:48:47,190 --> 01:48:49,620
was I'm not so I don't know if

3449
01:48:49,620 --> 01:48:51,780
that's so true. He seemed he and

3450
01:48:51,780 --> 01:48:52,890
Carolyn Ellison and some of

3451
01:48:52,890 --> 01:48:53,820
these other people just seem

3452
01:48:53,820 --> 01:48:55,080
like they were, you know,

3453
01:48:55,110 --> 01:48:55,950
standards,

3454
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:58,440
you know, what, we it might be a

3455
01:48:58,440 --> 01:48:59,910
gift to us that he hasn't been

3456
01:48:59,940 --> 01:49:01,110
arrested, or none of them have

3457
01:49:01,110 --> 01:49:02,280
sort of like what Marty alluded

3458
01:49:02,280 --> 01:49:03,390
to earlier, which I completely

3459
01:49:03,390 --> 01:49:05,040
agree with, in the sense that

3460
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:06,120
every day that they aren't

3461
01:49:06,120 --> 01:49:07,680
arrested, you just have more

3462
01:49:07,680 --> 01:49:09,090
people that are, let's say, less

3463
01:49:09,090 --> 01:49:11,220
conspiratorial minded, or, you

3464
01:49:11,220 --> 01:49:13,590
know, more more willing to

3465
01:49:13,710 --> 01:49:15,210
accept the mainstream narrative

3466
01:49:15,210 --> 01:49:17,490
of stuff, you know, it'll it'll

3467
01:49:17,490 --> 01:49:18,900
start tickling their minds even

3468
01:49:18,900 --> 01:49:20,820
to like what we what is going on

3469
01:49:20,820 --> 01:49:22,020
here. You know, there's

3470
01:49:22,020 --> 01:49:23,340
definitely something else here.

3471
01:49:23,340 --> 01:49:25,110
So, I mean, everything starts

3472
01:49:25,110 --> 01:49:26,220
with someone saying to

3473
01:49:26,220 --> 01:49:27,840
themselves, wait a minute, this

3474
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:28,920
doesn't add up. There's more

3475
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:29,970
stuff here. Let me let me

3476
01:49:29,970 --> 01:49:31,200
explore that. That's how it

3477
01:49:31,200 --> 01:49:32,730
happened for me. You know, I was

3478
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:34,620
actually in Arizona with my

3479
01:49:34,620 --> 01:49:36,360
family on vacation, when this

3480
01:49:36,360 --> 01:49:37,350
whole thing went down. I was

3481
01:49:37,890 --> 01:49:39,420
trying to, you know, ignore news

3482
01:49:39,420 --> 01:49:41,130
as much as possible. And then

3483
01:49:41,130 --> 01:49:42,600
just, I couldn't ignore it

3484
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:43,650
anymore. You know, I just like

3485
01:49:43,650 --> 01:49:46,290
it was so crazy. It was as I you

3486
01:49:46,290 --> 01:49:47,820
know, I messaged you, Whitney, I

3487
01:49:47,820 --> 01:49:48,930
said, this is the, you know,

3488
01:49:48,930 --> 01:49:50,100
this is like the craziest rabbit

3489
01:49:50,100 --> 01:49:51,120
hole I've seen since Epstein,

3490
01:49:51,150 --> 01:49:52,590
you know, reminded me of that,

3491
01:49:52,620 --> 01:49:54,660
and I couldn't look away. So you

3492
01:49:54,660 --> 01:49:56,340
know, hopefully, the fact that

3493
01:49:56,340 --> 01:49:57,900
they haven't been arrested is is

3494
01:49:57,900 --> 01:49:59,970
a great signal to people that

3495
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:00,900
Wait a minute, I probably

3496
01:50:00,900 --> 01:50:01,740
shouldn't look away.

3497
01:50:02,070 --> 01:50:03,240
Yeah, great point. Well,

3498
01:50:03,240 --> 01:50:04,800
hopefully people won't look away

3499
01:50:04,830 --> 01:50:06,390
and more will come out of it. I

3500
01:50:06,390 --> 01:50:07,380
don't think it'll come from the

3501
01:50:07,380 --> 01:50:08,400
mainstream media. I think it'll

3502
01:50:08,400 --> 01:50:09,660
come from independent media and

3503
01:50:09,660 --> 01:50:11,400
you know, Twitter slews and

3504
01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:13,050
people, you know, with an

3505
01:50:13,050 --> 01:50:13,920
interest in getting to the

3506
01:50:13,920 --> 01:50:15,270
bottom of this that aren't tied

3507
01:50:15,270 --> 01:50:16,410
to the establishment and want to

3508
01:50:16,410 --> 01:50:18,540
know, you know, why does this

3509
01:50:18,540 --> 01:50:20,100
fraud get to keep happening to

3510
01:50:20,100 --> 01:50:21,270
people over and over again, and

3511
01:50:21,270 --> 01:50:23,250
nothing's done about it. At

3512
01:50:23,250 --> 01:50:24,150
least when they're, you know,

3513
01:50:24,150 --> 01:50:26,940
have powerful friends. And but I

3514
01:50:26,940 --> 01:50:27,810
think, you know, like we've

3515
01:50:27,810 --> 01:50:29,370
talked about today, the story is

3516
01:50:29,400 --> 01:50:31,290
a lot deeper and potentially has

3517
01:50:31,290 --> 01:50:32,460
ramifications are some of the

3518
01:50:32,460 --> 01:50:34,260
biggest, you know, events over

3519
01:50:34,260 --> 01:50:35,460
the past couple years. You know,

3520
01:50:35,460 --> 01:50:36,720
there's a big Ukrainian goal.

3521
01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:37,770
There's a big, you know,

3522
01:50:37,860 --> 01:50:40,560
pandemic COVID-19 side to this

3523
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:42,720
as well. And then, you know,

3524
01:50:43,140 --> 01:50:45,750
campaign funny money. Yeah, it's

3525
01:50:45,750 --> 01:50:47,400
definitely not going to go away.

3526
01:50:47,430 --> 01:50:49,590
And hopefully, you know, more

3527
01:50:49,590 --> 01:50:52,320
revelations will come out about

3528
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:53,370
some of this some of this

3529
01:50:53,370 --> 01:50:55,080
network because you know, it's

3530
01:50:55,080 --> 01:50:56,100
going to be bigger, as we've

3531
01:50:56,100 --> 01:50:56,940
already talked about, it is

3532
01:50:56,940 --> 01:51:00,120
bigger than just FTX and OSPF.

3533
01:51:00,150 --> 01:51:01,560
So with that being said, thanks

3534
01:51:01,560 --> 01:51:03,270
to everyone for listening,

3535
01:51:03,390 --> 01:51:04,560
special. Thanks, of course, to

3536
01:51:04,560 --> 01:51:05,610
Mike and Marty, for joining me

3537
01:51:05,610 --> 01:51:07,890
today. If you enjoyed this

3538
01:51:07,890 --> 01:51:09,120
podcast, I would please

3539
01:51:09,750 --> 01:51:11,130
encourage you to share this

3540
01:51:11,130 --> 01:51:12,660
around for other people that

3541
01:51:12,660 --> 01:51:13,890
might also be interested in the

3542
01:51:13,890 --> 01:51:16,470
story and can help us perhaps

3543
01:51:16,470 --> 01:51:19,590
collectively help us get closer

3544
01:51:19,590 --> 01:51:21,780
to the core of what's really

3545
01:51:21,780 --> 01:51:25,920
going on here. And also, a huge

3546
01:51:25,920 --> 01:51:27,030
thank you as always, to the

3547
01:51:27,030 --> 01:51:28,320
supporters of unlimited hangout

3548
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:29,940
in this podcast, it would not be

3549
01:51:29,940 --> 01:51:32,340
possible without you. And yeah,

3550
01:51:32,340 --> 01:51:33,450
that's it for today. Catch you

3551
01:51:33,450 --> 01:51:33,930
all next time.