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Hey, you're listening

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to Unlimited Hangout. I'm your

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host Whitney Webb. Earlier this

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year in May, a former Clinton

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White House staffer allegedly

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took his own life under

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exceedingly shady circumstances.

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Mark Middleton, the former top

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aide to Clinton's Chief of Staff

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Thomas Mack McLarty was found

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dead at a property tied to

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Heifer International, an NGO

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with direct ties to the Clinton

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quote unquote philanthropies.

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Middleton was found with an

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extension cord around his neck

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and a shot got wound to the

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chest. Photos and video taken at

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the death scene were sealed by

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an Arkansas court shortly after

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news broke of Middleton staff.

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Notably, just a few months

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prior, it had been revealed that

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Middleton had been the man who

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had met with Jeffrey Epstein

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during the vast majority of

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Epstein 17 visits to the White

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House. It had previously been

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reported that Epstein had met

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with Middleton around five times

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at the White House, but visitor

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logs released by the UK Daily

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Mail last December revealed that

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the actual number was much much

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higher. Around that same time in

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December of last year, the Daily

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Mail also published a photograph

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of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine

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Maxwell greetings and President

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Clinton back in 1993,

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effectively eradicating the

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narrative that Clinton had not

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met Jeffrey Epstein until after

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he had left the White House.

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Tellingly, hardly any American

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media outlet covered the story,

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including news of Middleton

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subsequent gruesome death. So

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who exactly was Mark Middleton

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and what was his role at the

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White House? And why was he

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meeting with Epstein and

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exploring these questions? As

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I've noted in some recent

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interviews, the riddle of Mark

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Middleton gets very complicated

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and very crazy very quickly. To

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briefly summarize, well over a

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decade before Epstein's first

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arrest in 2006, Middletons had

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sat in the center of a massive

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scandal of the Clinton era,

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which today is largely

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forgotten. It was the subject of

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a major Congressional

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investigation that continued

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from the last years of the

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Clinton administration and into

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the administration of George W.

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Bush. to stall that

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investigation. It was Bush, not

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Clinton, who stepped in invoking

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for the first time in his

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presidency executive privilege,

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precisely to prevent documents

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about none other than Mark

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Middleton from being handed over

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to Congress. Shortly thereafter,

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the events of September 11 2001

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led to the premature closure of

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that investigation due to more

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pressing matters that arose in

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the aftermath of those attacks.

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Joining me today to help unravel

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the mysteries of Mark Middleton

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is Edie Berger, and worked as my

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research assistant for my soon

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to be released to volume book

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one nation under blackmail,

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which explores the union between

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organized crime and intelligence

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that later gave rise to Jeffrey

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Epstein, and much more. He is

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one of the most incredible and

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detailed researchers I've ever

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had the pleasure of knowing. And

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it's fair to say that the book

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would not have been finished on

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time or be nearly as good as it

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is without his very important

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contributions, and also co hosts

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the pseudo doxology podcast,

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which I highly recommend if you

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are interested in original, and

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ultra deep dives about the real

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history of this country and

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beyond. So thanks for joining me

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today, Edie? How's it going?

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Hey, it's not going too bad. And

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thanks for that awesome

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introduction. Yeah, of course.

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Well, I think you're super

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awesome. And there is no one I

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would rather be talking about

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Mark Middleton with. I know,

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in part of that's because he's a

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really complicated guy. And you

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are one of the very one of the

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few people I think that is

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capable of, you know, helping

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unravel a lot of that

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complexity, especially on this

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topic, and we work together on a

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good bit of this. So you know,

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it just makes the most logical

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sense. So I guess I'm, to get

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started, we should probably try

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and go back as far as we we

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could really about into who Marc

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Middleton is to sort of try and

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demystify what was going on here

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in the Clinton White House

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during the time he was there,

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and in the years, you know,

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between Ben and his untimely

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death earlier this year. So um,

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so as far as we know, you know,

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like I said earlier in the

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introduction, Middleton was

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working as a special assistant

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to Thomas Mack McLarty. He was

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allegedly hired by McClarty for

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that role because he was

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McClarty was so impressed with

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his fundraising bundling efforts

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for the Clinton presidential

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campaign in 1992. But before

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that, it's really hard to find

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out what Middleton was exactly

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doing, though. One article from

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the 90s in the Los Angeles Times

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did reveal that Middleton was

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working at Worthen Bank, which

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is an institution we'll get into

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in a moment. And one of the

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people he was working at at

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Worthen Bank is a guy we'll be

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talking about later, who was

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central to the aforementioned

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major Clinton era scandal that

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Middleton was in the center of a

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man named John Huang. So and I

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think it might be fitting if you

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would do the, the honors of

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explaining why we're than bank

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and you know, is significant and

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also sort of, I guess, unpacking

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the people behind that

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institution because they're

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basically the people behind, I

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guess you can say basically.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's funny because like, trying

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to think of how to do it in the

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most, like short and streamlined

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way because more than bank could

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be like its own. Kinda. Yeah,

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yeah, it's it there's a lot

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that's quite mysterious about it

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like in itself, but guess like

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to understand where then bank we

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kind of have to understand a

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figure by the name of Jackson

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Stevens. And Jackson Stevens was

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like an Arkansas like

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businessman who had these like

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very vast and like deep

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political connections. So like

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you can find, like Stephens

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fingerprints behind Jimmy

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Carter, who he knew from, like,

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his time in the US Naval Academy

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in the 40s had ties to the

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Reagan administration. He was a

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massive backer of Bush, and then

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finally, was a big backer of the

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Clintons. And Stevens. His main

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vehicle was a company called

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Stevens Inc. And what this did

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is it kind of started off

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investing in oil and gas, mainly

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in Arkansas, and elsewhere in

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the South and in the Midwest,

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but very quickly, it developed,

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you know, these like really far

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reaching economic ties to, you

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know, financial capital, you

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know, in the northeast and Wall

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Street. It provided financing

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for the startup, numerous

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businesses, like it was very

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involved in initially backing

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Walmart actually, which is

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funny, like Hillary Clinton

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later was involved with them,

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too. Yeah, yeah. She

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sat on the board for I think it

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was like seven years or

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something. Yeah. And the reason

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like there's like a connection

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as because kind of, for the

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duration of when Stevens Inc was

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really big. It utilizes the

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service of like Arkansas's most

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prominent law firm, and that was

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the Rose Law Firm. And since the

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early 70s, that have been led by

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a man named Joseph, G. Ra, I

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think is how it's pronounced.

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Yeah. And this kind of was like

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the hub for a lot of like their

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rising Clinton political and

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economic fortunes. So I figured

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that you would find at Rose Law

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would be like, Hillary Clinton

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herself was like a junior

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partner there. Webster Hubbell,

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who would later become Bill

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Clinton's Associate Attorney

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General was there. And Vince

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Foster, who was Clinton's White

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House Counsel, was also there

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for a time yeah, for a time for

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a very, very suspicious kind of,

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you know, and much like Mark

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Middleton, yes. But in all these

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individuals, they had all kinds

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of very kind of convoluted

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business relations, kind of

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starting in the 70s. And going

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like through, you know,

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basically, all the way like all

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the way up through the 1990s.

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But I think when we start

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talking about kind of like the

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deep political connections of

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Stephens and how it gets

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relevant to like, the, you know,

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the kind of the topics that

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we're going to move into has to

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be understood in relation to

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BCCI. You know, this big kind of

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CIA linked bank that right, I

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don't even really know how to,

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like, describe what Well, I

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can I can I know, it's it's

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basically like an octopus, in a

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sense. And it's no coincidence

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that the only castlewellan the

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journalist who died in 1991, he

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was investigating the octopus

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and BCCI was really central to

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his investigation. So basically,

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I guess I would, it's the Bank

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of credit and commerce

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International, but it was pretty

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notorious for a long time. And I

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think it eventually hadn't like

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banks, Bank of corruption,

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corruption, internet, I don't

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know some big names like that

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floated around it for some time.

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It so basically, it was a hub

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for money laundering on a

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massive scale, but they were

286
00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:03,239
also involved in a lot of other

287
00:09:03,239 --> 00:09:05,429
stuff like sex trafficking, arms

288
00:09:05,429 --> 00:09:08,219
trafficking, as a bank, right.

289
00:09:08,219 --> 00:09:09,419
So they were obviously much more

290
00:09:09,419 --> 00:09:10,529
as a bank. I mean, it's really

291
00:09:10,529 --> 00:09:12,149
like an intelligence apparatus

292
00:09:12,179 --> 00:09:13,679
masquerading as a bank.

293
00:09:13,890 --> 00:09:15,000
They were described as having

294
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,410
like, what was it called, like a

295
00:09:16,410 --> 00:09:17,970
black network or something where

296
00:09:17,970 --> 00:09:20,910
they allegedly had hitmen? And

297
00:09:20,939 --> 00:09:21,989
yeah, I mean, they had

298
00:09:21,989 --> 00:09:23,909
everything. I mean, yeah. So

299
00:09:23,939 --> 00:09:26,939
it's, it's super mental. BCCI

300
00:09:26,939 --> 00:09:28,679
once you get into it anyway,

301
00:09:29,069 --> 00:09:30,779
anyway, the bank part of it

302
00:09:30,809 --> 00:09:33,299
collapsed in 1991. And that was

303
00:09:33,299 --> 00:09:34,529
the year of course that you have

304
00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:37,529
Bill Barr as Attorney General.

305
00:09:38,129 --> 00:09:39,659
under Bush basically stepped in

306
00:09:39,659 --> 00:09:42,629
to cover up that the PROMIS

307
00:09:42,629 --> 00:09:44,939
software scandal, in part and

308
00:09:44,939 --> 00:09:47,129
all the people in Iran Contra

309
00:09:47,159 --> 00:09:49,439
all in the same year. Very big

310
00:09:49,439 --> 00:09:50,759
year for cover ups. It's also

311
00:09:50,759 --> 00:09:51,899
the year that Robert Maxwell

312
00:09:51,899 --> 00:09:53,069
dies from the PROMIS software

313
00:09:53,069 --> 00:09:54,929
scandal. John Tower has been

314
00:09:54,929 --> 00:09:56,309
accomplished and promised is

315
00:09:56,309 --> 00:09:57,629
Danny Castle arrow diocese

316
00:09:57,629 --> 00:09:59,039
investigating it and Castle

317
00:09:59,039 --> 00:10:00,119
arrows one of his main and

318
00:10:00,119 --> 00:10:02,249
sources. Allen standoff also

319
00:10:02,249 --> 00:10:04,079
I'll die at 91. I mean, it's a

320
00:10:04,079 --> 00:10:06,569
really mental year. When you

321
00:10:06,569 --> 00:10:07,949
think about it, so anyway,

322
00:10:08,009 --> 00:10:10,139
we know from like FBI files that

323
00:10:10,139 --> 00:10:12,479
have been released that they're

324
00:10:12,479 --> 00:10:14,339
like investigators into BCCI

325
00:10:14,339 --> 00:10:16,409
we're very interested, and

326
00:10:16,409 --> 00:10:18,089
Castle arrow and the PROMIS

327
00:10:18,089 --> 00:10:18,809
software.

328
00:10:19,709 --> 00:10:22,529
So we'll get into why these BCCI

329
00:10:22,529 --> 00:10:24,179
investigators were into

330
00:10:24,299 --> 00:10:25,889
interested in Castle arrows

331
00:10:25,889 --> 00:10:27,419
investigation, because there is

332
00:10:27,419 --> 00:10:29,369
a lot of overlap with, you know,

333
00:10:29,399 --> 00:10:30,959
the promise scandal, which,

334
00:10:31,169 --> 00:10:32,459
again, I'll summarize briefly

335
00:10:32,459 --> 00:10:34,529
and BCCI because the main, you

336
00:10:34,529 --> 00:10:35,789
know, connection there, I would

337
00:10:35,789 --> 00:10:37,199
argue would be, you know, one of

338
00:10:37,199 --> 00:10:39,329
the main other main companies of

339
00:10:39,329 --> 00:10:40,379
Jackson Stevens, just

340
00:10:40,409 --> 00:10:42,059
systematics but we'll get there.

341
00:10:42,929 --> 00:10:45,599
Eventually. So, um, I guess when

342
00:10:45,599 --> 00:10:46,679
it comes to Jackson Stevens,

343
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:47,579
we're trying to talk about Mark

344
00:10:47,579 --> 00:10:49,649
Middleton here. And so, you

345
00:10:49,649 --> 00:10:50,849
know, we brought up with BCCI

346
00:10:50,849 --> 00:10:53,009
was, so I guess the most logical

347
00:10:53,009 --> 00:10:54,509
point now would be to explain

348
00:10:54,749 --> 00:10:56,099
what was Jackson Stephens

349
00:10:56,249 --> 00:10:58,409
relationship to BCCI. And as I

350
00:10:58,409 --> 00:10:59,489
understand it, that comes up

351
00:10:59,489 --> 00:11:01,229
when BCCI starts trying to

352
00:11:01,469 --> 00:11:03,179
penetrate the US financial

353
00:11:03,179 --> 00:11:03,809
system.

354
00:11:04,109 --> 00:11:06,209
Yeah, exactly. So the BCCI was

355
00:11:06,209 --> 00:11:09,059
kind of looking for a way and

356
00:11:09,059 --> 00:11:11,609
the way to do this was to buy up

357
00:11:11,789 --> 00:11:13,919
a bank, and then kind of do this

358
00:11:13,919 --> 00:11:16,559
in kind of an incognito mode, I

359
00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:17,999
guess, because they were

360
00:11:17,999 --> 00:11:19,739
violating US banking

361
00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:23,039
regulations. And so the main

362
00:11:23,039 --> 00:11:24,389
connection here comes through a

363
00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:26,759
guy named Bert Lance, who was

364
00:11:26,759 --> 00:11:28,259
kind of like a infamously

365
00:11:28,259 --> 00:11:31,589
corrupt, short lived Director of

366
00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:33,059
the Office of Budget and

367
00:11:33,059 --> 00:11:36,209
Management under Carter. And

368
00:11:36,239 --> 00:11:37,769
prior to working in the Carter

369
00:11:37,769 --> 00:11:40,499
administration. Lance was the

370
00:11:40,499 --> 00:11:42,719
president of a bank in Atlanta,

371
00:11:42,839 --> 00:11:44,219
called the National Bank of

372
00:11:44,219 --> 00:11:46,589
Georgia. And National Bank of

373
00:11:46,589 --> 00:11:49,019
Georgia was owned by a bank

374
00:11:49,019 --> 00:11:51,719
holding company in Washington DC

375
00:11:51,719 --> 00:11:53,999
called first gen bank shares or

376
00:11:54,809 --> 00:11:58,169
FGB. And FTB itself is like

377
00:11:58,169 --> 00:11:59,639
really kind of interesting,

378
00:11:59,669 --> 00:12:01,349
because at the time, it was

379
00:12:01,439 --> 00:12:04,169
owned by this guy named General

380
00:12:04,169 --> 00:12:06,059
George Olmstead. And this

381
00:12:06,089 --> 00:12:08,099
individual has a really long

382
00:12:08,099 --> 00:12:09,989
history of like ties to US

383
00:12:09,989 --> 00:12:11,939
intelligence and other banks

384
00:12:11,939 --> 00:12:13,349
that he owned, were very kind of

385
00:12:13,349 --> 00:12:15,479
tied in to the US intelligence,

386
00:12:15,479 --> 00:12:17,849
kind of like offshore apparatus.

387
00:12:18,599 --> 00:12:20,729
But due to like, changes that

388
00:12:20,729 --> 00:12:22,649
were made in holding company

389
00:12:22,649 --> 00:12:25,079
laws, Olmstead was being forced

390
00:12:25,079 --> 00:12:27,269
to sell off his ownership of

391
00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:30,059
first gen bank shares. And he

392
00:12:30,059 --> 00:12:32,009
turned to the president of the

393
00:12:32,009 --> 00:12:34,469
subsidiary, Bert Lance to help

394
00:12:34,469 --> 00:12:37,379
find a buyer. And so we don't

395
00:12:37,379 --> 00:12:39,089
really know how Stevens and

396
00:12:39,089 --> 00:12:40,829
Lance kind of got hooked up, we

397
00:12:40,829 --> 00:12:42,149
know that it happened around

398
00:12:42,479 --> 00:12:45,899
1975. And so Lance turned to

399
00:12:45,899 --> 00:12:47,549
Stevens, you know, to help him

400
00:12:47,549 --> 00:12:49,559
like locate, you know, who's

401
00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,329
gonna buy, you know, not just

402
00:12:51,449 --> 00:12:53,249
first gen, but National Bank of

403
00:12:53,249 --> 00:12:55,319
Georgia as well. And so they

404
00:12:55,319 --> 00:12:56,459
start courting, you know,

405
00:12:56,459 --> 00:12:58,499
various individuals and groups,

406
00:12:58,499 --> 00:13:00,299
like the first group was called

407
00:13:00,299 --> 00:13:02,429
the Middendorf group. This was

408
00:13:02,429 --> 00:13:04,469
named for Nixon's former

409
00:13:04,469 --> 00:13:06,149
ambassador to the Netherlands

410
00:13:06,149 --> 00:13:09,089
getting Jane Middendorf. He was

411
00:13:09,089 --> 00:13:10,139
a leader of the group and then

412
00:13:10,139 --> 00:13:12,449
included Armand Hammer, who is a

413
00:13:12,629 --> 00:13:14,249
pretty spooky oil, man.

414
00:13:14,369 --> 00:13:15,809
Yeah, he comes up in the book a

415
00:13:15,809 --> 00:13:18,479
lot. Yeah, he's everywhere.

416
00:13:18,479 --> 00:13:19,769
And I think, you know, I think

417
00:13:19,769 --> 00:13:20,699
there's a lot more to probably

418
00:13:20,699 --> 00:13:22,649
like, kind of find with him,

419
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:23,759
because it's just he's rather

420
00:13:24,149 --> 00:13:27,329
witness. Yeah. And so that group

421
00:13:27,329 --> 00:13:29,069
fell apart. And Stevens and

422
00:13:29,069 --> 00:13:30,929
Lance started to look into other

423
00:13:30,929 --> 00:13:35,849
groups. And so they, somehow I'm

424
00:13:35,849 --> 00:13:37,559
not exactly sure, but they like

425
00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:38,909
this happened simultaneously

426
00:13:38,909 --> 00:13:41,789
with BCCI. Looking to buy a US

427
00:13:41,789 --> 00:13:43,139
Bank and these two kinds, I

428
00:13:43,139 --> 00:13:44,069
mean, obviously, it's probably

429
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:46,019
through the US intelligence

430
00:13:46,019 --> 00:13:48,269
services, these two groups kind

431
00:13:48,269 --> 00:13:50,699
of collided. And so that's how

432
00:13:50,699 --> 00:13:53,159
Stevens kind of gets wrapped up

433
00:13:53,159 --> 00:13:56,639
into the world of BCCI. But at

434
00:13:56,639 --> 00:13:57,839
the same time that this was

435
00:13:57,839 --> 00:13:58,739
happening, there were other

436
00:13:58,739 --> 00:14:01,049
people who are interested in

437
00:14:01,049 --> 00:14:02,579
buying the National Bank of

438
00:14:02,579 --> 00:14:04,889
Georgia, the Bert Lance bank.

439
00:14:05,489 --> 00:14:08,339
And chief amongst them was a

440
00:14:09,029 --> 00:14:11,159
group of bankers from Indonesia,

441
00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:13,469
the riadi family and the

442
00:14:13,469 --> 00:14:14,909
patriarch of this family.

443
00:14:15,029 --> 00:14:17,519
Mokhtar riadi, the head of you

444
00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:19,289
know, what's most, probably like

445
00:14:19,289 --> 00:14:21,629
the flagship is the lipo group.

446
00:14:22,229 --> 00:14:24,539
And Lance had known riadi for

447
00:14:24,539 --> 00:14:27,329
some time, been introduced to

448
00:14:27,329 --> 00:14:29,039
them by a guy named Robert B.

449
00:14:29,039 --> 00:14:30,749
Anderson, who is this really

450
00:14:30,749 --> 00:14:33,149
kind of like, prominent figure

451
00:14:33,149 --> 00:14:34,859
from the Eisenhower era. You

452
00:14:34,859 --> 00:14:35,669
know, they thought he would be

453
00:14:35,669 --> 00:14:37,799
president at one point. But by

454
00:14:37,799 --> 00:14:38,879
the end of the life, he was kind

455
00:14:38,879 --> 00:14:41,129
of mired in corruption and

456
00:14:41,129 --> 00:14:43,259
linked all kinds of like BCCI

457
00:14:43,259 --> 00:14:45,239
entities. But this is pretty

458
00:14:45,239 --> 00:14:47,519
like interesting in itself

459
00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:49,619
because Anderson was part of a

460
00:14:49,619 --> 00:14:51,269
group that was known as like the

461
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:53,879
Hardy Boys, and the Hardy Boys

462
00:14:53,879 --> 00:14:56,549
for a kind of clique of

463
00:14:56,549 --> 00:14:59,069
intelligence linked businessmen

464
00:14:59,459 --> 00:15:00,899
around the world. am Casey

465
00:15:00,899 --> 00:15:03,479
Reagan CIA director, and if you

466
00:15:03,479 --> 00:15:05,039
start like kind of pulling back,

467
00:15:05,069 --> 00:15:06,719
like the lid on the Hardy Boys,

468
00:15:06,719 --> 00:15:07,709
you find that a lot of them

469
00:15:07,709 --> 00:15:09,929
actually were very tied up with

470
00:15:09,929 --> 00:15:12,599
Indonesia, like Casey himself.

471
00:15:12,599 --> 00:15:14,099
If you look at his confirmation

472
00:15:14,099 --> 00:15:16,979
hearings, there were allegations

473
00:15:16,979 --> 00:15:19,559
that he acted as a foreign agent

474
00:15:19,589 --> 00:15:21,749
for Indonesian interests and

475
00:15:22,019 --> 00:15:24,479
failed to disclose this. And so,

476
00:15:24,509 --> 00:15:25,799
you know, there's a very strong

477
00:15:25,799 --> 00:15:27,539
possibility that this whole

478
00:15:27,539 --> 00:15:30,029
connection to the realities, you

479
00:15:30,029 --> 00:15:31,889
know, coming through Robert B,

480
00:15:31,889 --> 00:15:34,199
Anderson, was connected up with

481
00:15:34,199 --> 00:15:36,749
like a wider US intelligence,

482
00:15:37,979 --> 00:15:41,279
Indonesia relationship. But at

483
00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:42,569
any rate, you know, the

484
00:15:42,569 --> 00:15:44,459
realities ended up not buying

485
00:15:44,489 --> 00:15:46,859
National Bank of Georgia ended

486
00:15:46,859 --> 00:15:49,289
up going to BCCI interests,

487
00:15:49,289 --> 00:15:50,609
ultimately, at the same time,

488
00:15:50,609 --> 00:15:52,709
they were buying versus general.

489
00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:55,679
But Stevens and the reality has

490
00:15:55,679 --> 00:15:57,989
kind of stayed in close contact

491
00:15:57,989 --> 00:16:00,089
with one another. And as you go

492
00:16:00,089 --> 00:16:03,269
from like, the 1970s, into the

493
00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:06,569
1980s, they really begin to

494
00:16:06,569 --> 00:16:09,299
develop a really strong banking

495
00:16:09,299 --> 00:16:11,579
network, not just in Arkansas,

496
00:16:11,579 --> 00:16:14,159
but in in Asia proper. So like

497
00:16:14,219 --> 00:16:16,799
together, Stevens Inc, and

498
00:16:16,799 --> 00:16:19,199
Riyadh, he's Lippo group by this

499
00:16:19,199 --> 00:16:21,269
like bank in Macau that had

500
00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:22,109
these like very kind of

501
00:16:22,109 --> 00:16:25,649
notorious ties to triad gangs.

502
00:16:25,980 --> 00:16:27,420
Yeah. And just to interrupt you

503
00:16:27,420 --> 00:16:28,830
really quick, sorry, I think

504
00:16:28,830 --> 00:16:30,030
it's important to point out to

505
00:16:30,060 --> 00:16:31,650
for people that don't know,

506
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,390
Macau was basically like Las

507
00:16:33,390 --> 00:16:35,880
Vegas. But yes, like the East

508
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,130
Asian version of that. It at the

509
00:16:38,130 --> 00:16:40,290
time, it wasn't tech, it was

510
00:16:40,290 --> 00:16:41,250
sort of like Hong Kong, you

511
00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:42,450
know, it was like an enclave

512
00:16:42,750 --> 00:16:44,940
originally Portuguese. And it

513
00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:46,740
came under Chinese control after

514
00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:47,610
the events we're going to talk

515
00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:49,680
about today. But Macau comes up

516
00:16:49,710 --> 00:16:51,780
a couple times. Because, you

517
00:16:51,780 --> 00:16:53,400
know, one of the main themes in

518
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,020
the book, right is organized

519
00:16:55,020 --> 00:16:56,490
crime and intelligence coming

520
00:16:56,490 --> 00:16:59,430
together. And in China. You see

521
00:16:59,430 --> 00:17:01,770
that sort of happening with

522
00:17:01,770 --> 00:17:04,350
Macau businessman, to a

523
00:17:04,350 --> 00:17:06,570
significant degree as well. So

524
00:17:06,570 --> 00:17:07,830
anyway, I'll let you pick back

525
00:17:07,830 --> 00:17:08,340
up where you were.

526
00:17:08,369 --> 00:17:09,509
No, I think that's a really good

527
00:17:09,509 --> 00:17:10,979
like thing to point out. And I

528
00:17:10,979 --> 00:17:12,059
guess one of the things that

529
00:17:12,059 --> 00:17:13,829
made Macau like so unique in the

530
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:15,299
area that you're talking about,

531
00:17:15,689 --> 00:17:17,759
is that it was the major center

532
00:17:17,759 --> 00:17:20,129
for like big global gold trade

533
00:17:20,459 --> 00:17:21,779
in the time period, you know,

534
00:17:21,779 --> 00:17:23,939
like before 1972, and like it

535
00:17:23,939 --> 00:17:27,089
was hyper regulated. And so

536
00:17:27,149 --> 00:17:28,529
there's lots of illicit like, it

537
00:17:28,529 --> 00:17:29,729
was kind of like a big money

538
00:17:29,729 --> 00:17:32,009
laundering hub. And the bank

539
00:17:32,009 --> 00:17:34,109
that Stevens in reality bought,

540
00:17:34,139 --> 00:17:34,799
it's just called like the

541
00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:37,289
saying, hey, bank, it was like

542
00:17:37,289 --> 00:17:39,269
the premier like gold, like

543
00:17:39,269 --> 00:17:41,159
laundering bank. So, you know,

544
00:17:41,159 --> 00:17:42,119
there's like questions like, Why

545
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:43,379
did they buy this particular

546
00:17:43,379 --> 00:17:46,169
bank, but the same year that

547
00:17:46,169 --> 00:17:48,269
they bought this bank, this

548
00:17:48,299 --> 00:17:50,399
Macao bank, they also took

549
00:17:50,399 --> 00:17:53,219
control of what's called the

550
00:17:53,219 --> 00:17:55,499
first Arkansas bank stock

551
00:17:55,499 --> 00:17:58,049
corporation, or fabco, for

552
00:17:58,049 --> 00:18:00,449
short. And it was the bank

553
00:18:00,449 --> 00:18:02,849
holding company that was owned

554
00:18:02,849 --> 00:18:05,729
by a Texas oilman named John

555
00:18:05,729 --> 00:18:07,829
Hendricks. And he was out of

556
00:18:07,829 --> 00:18:09,719
Midland Bank. And from what I

557
00:18:09,719 --> 00:18:11,489
can tell, I've been looking more

558
00:18:11,489 --> 00:18:12,839
into him. He seems to have like

559
00:18:12,839 --> 00:18:14,609
banking ties to the Bush family.

560
00:18:14,609 --> 00:18:16,649
So that's interesting in itself.

561
00:18:17,549 --> 00:18:19,829
But he sold this one. Yeah, of

562
00:18:19,829 --> 00:18:22,889
course, of course. So he sold

563
00:18:22,889 --> 00:18:25,229
fabco to Stevens and the

564
00:18:25,229 --> 00:18:28,649
realities and fabco had numerous

565
00:18:28,829 --> 00:18:30,809
Arkansas banks that were kind of

566
00:18:30,809 --> 00:18:33,479
like, under under its umbrella.

567
00:18:33,509 --> 00:18:35,189
Like, for example, one of them

568
00:18:35,369 --> 00:18:37,169
was a First National Bank of

569
00:18:37,169 --> 00:18:39,299
Mena, Arkansas, which I think is

570
00:18:39,299 --> 00:18:40,409
particularly interesting,

571
00:18:40,409 --> 00:18:41,459
because this is where, you know,

572
00:18:41,459 --> 00:18:43,829
like that kind of CIA who was

573
00:18:43,829 --> 00:18:45,599
running cocaine into this town.

574
00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:47,310
Yeah, the Barry seal MENA

575
00:18:47,310 --> 00:18:48,300
connection and all of that

576
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:49,770
stuff. I'm pretty sure most

577
00:18:49,770 --> 00:18:50,850
listeners of this podcast are

578
00:18:50,850 --> 00:18:53,100
familiar with that. If not, you

579
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:55,380
can read the book. Because we're

580
00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:55,620
talking

581
00:18:55,619 --> 00:18:57,029
about it. It's a great chapter

582
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:59,219
on it. Yeah, so I mean, that's

583
00:18:59,219 --> 00:19:00,869
pretty suspicious. I think that

584
00:19:00,929 --> 00:19:02,759
you had that particular bank.

585
00:19:03,899 --> 00:19:05,999
They use this vehicle to buy

586
00:19:05,999 --> 00:19:07,439
like a number of other banks

587
00:19:07,439 --> 00:19:09,629
like Joseph green or the guy

588
00:19:09,629 --> 00:19:12,689
from the Rose Law Firm. They had

589
00:19:12,689 --> 00:19:15,149
him purchasing other banks and

590
00:19:15,149 --> 00:19:17,219
then like selling them to fabco,

591
00:19:17,219 --> 00:19:19,169
which they now control. So they

592
00:19:19,169 --> 00:19:20,669
created this like, kind of

593
00:19:20,669 --> 00:19:24,299
banking empire in Arkansas. And

594
00:19:24,299 --> 00:19:25,889
the very kind of center of it

595
00:19:26,159 --> 00:19:27,989
was this bank called worden

596
00:19:27,989 --> 00:19:31,079
bank. And we're than bank was

597
00:19:31,079 --> 00:19:33,449
under their control. Rose Law

598
00:19:33,449 --> 00:19:36,299
Firm was like the de facto law

599
00:19:36,299 --> 00:19:39,209
firm that were then used. And so

600
00:19:39,209 --> 00:19:41,639
like it, if you kind of trace

601
00:19:41,639 --> 00:19:44,639
out like the whole web of like

602
00:19:44,669 --> 00:19:47,939
Clinton, business, and political

603
00:19:47,939 --> 00:19:49,919
connections. It's almost like

604
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:51,539
kind of like a spoke unit or

605
00:19:51,539 --> 00:19:52,979
like a hub in a wheel right,

606
00:19:52,979 --> 00:19:55,289
like Word and bank, just is the

607
00:19:55,289 --> 00:19:57,059
money conduit for like, you

608
00:19:57,059 --> 00:19:58,439
know, it's the glue that kind of

609
00:19:58,439 --> 00:19:59,879
holds it all together as far as

610
00:19:59,879 --> 00:20:02,339
I I can tell, you know, the

611
00:20:02,339 --> 00:20:03,749
center of like this like kind of

612
00:20:03,749 --> 00:20:05,249
Arkansas corruption.

613
00:20:05,850 --> 00:20:08,040
Yeah, with the with Stephens in

614
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,300
reality sort of the center of

615
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:10,950
it. So all we know about

616
00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:12,930
Middleton right before the

617
00:20:12,930 --> 00:20:14,010
Clinton White House or the

618
00:20:14,010 --> 00:20:15,150
Clinton administration comes

619
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:17,490
comes to power is that he had

620
00:20:17,490 --> 00:20:18,720
previously worked for word than

621
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:19,770
bank at some point. So he's

622
00:20:19,770 --> 00:20:21,030
obviously part of this network

623
00:20:21,030 --> 00:20:22,770
of influence, I guess you could

624
00:20:22,770 --> 00:20:25,110
say, Jackson Stevenson in the

625
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:26,550
Riyadh, these are major power

626
00:20:26,550 --> 00:20:28,620
players behind, you know,

627
00:20:28,620 --> 00:20:30,420
Clinton's time as governor of

628
00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:32,550
Arkansas. And then obviously, in

629
00:20:32,550 --> 00:20:34,410
a big way when he becomes

630
00:20:34,410 --> 00:20:38,070
president as well. So so some

631
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:39,300
important background to bring up

632
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:41,400
I think now, arm is related to

633
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,290
Stevens and systematics, and I'm

634
00:20:43,290 --> 00:20:45,780
not gonna go too, in depth about

635
00:20:45,780 --> 00:20:47,280
it, but it is it is, does kind

636
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,420
of give you an idea of like,

637
00:20:48,420 --> 00:20:51,120
what was going on here? And,

638
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,620
again, we don't know exactly

639
00:20:52,620 --> 00:20:54,870
like 100% of what else is going

640
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:56,970
on here. Right. But the picture

641
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,670
painted by what we know, you

642
00:20:59,670 --> 00:21:01,890
know, pretty much should tell

643
00:21:01,890 --> 00:21:03,780
you more or less what, what the

644
00:21:03,780 --> 00:21:06,060
deal was. So, you know, you

645
00:21:06,060 --> 00:21:07,320
mentioned a little bit ago, and

646
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:08,550
how they, you know, bought these

647
00:21:08,610 --> 00:21:10,020
big banks in East Asia,

648
00:21:10,020 --> 00:21:11,400
specifically, Macau, and they

649
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,720
were involved in the gold trade

650
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:13,410
and all of this, but

651
00:21:13,410 --> 00:21:14,760
specifically, Macau was also

652
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,080
known as being a major hub for

653
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,310
money laundering. Part of that's

654
00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:18,930
because of the, you know, like I

655
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,520
made that Las Vegas comparison

656
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,900
earlier. I mean, it's a casino

657
00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:23,490
hub, thinking of people like

658
00:21:23,490 --> 00:21:26,610
Sheldon Adelson. No longer on

659
00:21:26,610 --> 00:21:29,790
the planet. I always like to

660
00:21:29,790 --> 00:21:31,860
remind myself here anymore. It's

661
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:34,770
nice. So anyway, he had all his

662
00:21:34,770 --> 00:21:36,270
casinos, not all of them, but a

663
00:21:36,270 --> 00:21:37,860
lot of the big ones in Macau,

664
00:21:37,860 --> 00:21:39,930
right. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh,

665
00:21:39,930 --> 00:21:40,170
yeah.

666
00:21:40,590 --> 00:21:41,610
So that's really?

667
00:21:42,060 --> 00:21:44,430
Yeah. So like, you know, it's a

668
00:21:44,430 --> 00:21:46,590
sauce area for casinos. And

669
00:21:46,590 --> 00:21:47,790
people have argued that the

670
00:21:47,790 --> 00:21:49,560
money laundering, you know, the

671
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,240
scale of it, specifically before

672
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,760
China took over Macau, I think

673
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,370
in 1999 or so I mean, the money

674
00:21:56,370 --> 00:21:57,450
that the money laundering was

675
00:21:57,450 --> 00:21:59,550
was totally out of control. So

676
00:21:59,580 --> 00:22:00,870
when we're talking about, you

677
00:22:00,870 --> 00:22:02,430
know, the Stephens in the

678
00:22:02,430 --> 00:22:05,610
realities, it's pretty clear to

679
00:22:05,610 --> 00:22:07,230
me anyway, that they were very

680
00:22:07,230 --> 00:22:08,550
involved with, you know, money

681
00:22:08,550 --> 00:22:09,330
laundering in the banking

682
00:22:09,330 --> 00:22:10,620
system, not just because of the

683
00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:11,700
Macau connection, but you have

684
00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:13,530
BCCI there, and then you have

685
00:22:13,530 --> 00:22:15,630
Systematics. So systematics is

686
00:22:15,630 --> 00:22:16,710
important, because this is a

687
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:17,880
company that checks and Stephen

688
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,040
controlled, and it basically and

689
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,300
it's also tied up with ROS law

690
00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:23,520
firm. People like Vince Foster

691
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,290
people, you know, individuals

692
00:22:25,290 --> 00:22:27,870
like that. Yeah, yeah. And it's

693
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:29,910
basically one of the main things

694
00:22:29,910 --> 00:22:31,770
that does is it sell software to

695
00:22:31,770 --> 00:22:34,620
banks, and it's Jackson Stevens

696
00:22:34,620 --> 00:22:37,110
and this whole network. You

697
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:38,130
know, through these financial

698
00:22:38,130 --> 00:22:39,360
institutions, we already sort of

699
00:22:39,390 --> 00:22:40,530
sort of touched on Mena,

700
00:22:40,530 --> 00:22:42,180
Arkansas, the whole Iran Contra

701
00:22:42,180 --> 00:22:43,980
angle, and what was going on in

702
00:22:43,980 --> 00:22:45,630
Arkansas on the time that also

703
00:22:45,630 --> 00:22:46,830
involved a huge amount of money

704
00:22:46,830 --> 00:22:48,030
laundering that was allegedly

705
00:22:48,030 --> 00:22:49,680
done through Arkansas financial

706
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:50,880
institutions and some of these

707
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,640
banks linked to Stevens. So at

708
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,170
some point, systematic starts

709
00:22:55,170 --> 00:22:56,940
basically selling the PROMIS

710
00:22:56,940 --> 00:23:00,510
software. Um, I don't I don't

711
00:23:00,510 --> 00:23:02,100
think I've done like a specific

712
00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:04,200
podcast on promise before. And

713
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,490
some of you may or may know of

714
00:23:05,490 --> 00:23:06,660
it, and I've done some recent

715
00:23:06,660 --> 00:23:07,530
interviews about it

716
00:23:07,530 --> 00:23:08,820
specifically, because the

717
00:23:08,850 --> 00:23:10,380
anniversary of Danny Kessler,

718
00:23:10,380 --> 00:23:11,520
Carol's death was like last

719
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,810
month. But another massively

720
00:23:15,810 --> 00:23:17,880
complex scandal to summarize,

721
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:20,940
we have to give little

722
00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:22,710
thumbnails of like a million

723
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:23,820
different things to explain.

724
00:23:23,820 --> 00:23:24,990
Yeah, well, I mean, that's the

725
00:23:24,990 --> 00:23:25,980
only way you can understand the

726
00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:27,300
stuff otherwise, it just you

727
00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:28,740
can't see the whole picture, you

728
00:23:28,740 --> 00:23:30,390
know. So absolutely. Basically,

729
00:23:30,540 --> 00:23:32,340
there was an effort by Israeli

730
00:23:32,340 --> 00:23:33,630
intelligence in the CIA to

731
00:23:33,630 --> 00:23:35,730
backdoor this software that was

732
00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:37,650
stolen by the Reagan era Justice

733
00:23:37,650 --> 00:23:39,330
Department from a company called

734
00:23:39,330 --> 00:23:40,620
insulin Inc. and it was called

735
00:23:40,620 --> 00:23:42,960
promise promises an abbreviation

736
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,220
it's something like prosecutor

737
00:23:44,220 --> 00:23:45,930
management information software,

738
00:23:45,930 --> 00:23:46,860
something like that, if I

739
00:23:46,860 --> 00:23:50,220
remember correctly. So at some,

740
00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:51,690
there were two versions of

741
00:23:51,690 --> 00:23:53,130
promise going around that were

742
00:23:53,130 --> 00:23:55,110
backdoored meaning that

743
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:56,610
intelligence agencies had covert

744
00:23:56,610 --> 00:23:57,900
access to wherever they were

745
00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:00,330
installed. So you had Israel

746
00:24:00,330 --> 00:24:01,770
with their version, and most of

747
00:24:01,770 --> 00:24:03,600
that was marketed by Robert

748
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,310
Maxwell and you know, I guess or

749
00:24:05,310 --> 00:24:06,690
O'Brien and some other people,

750
00:24:07,620 --> 00:24:08,790
mainly to governments,

751
00:24:08,790 --> 00:24:09,960
specifically intelligence

752
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,610
agencies, or security agencies

753
00:24:11,610 --> 00:24:12,660
of governments all over the

754
00:24:12,660 --> 00:24:14,400
world. And there was another

755
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,800
version that was developed at

756
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,230
Wacken hunt in by wack and

757
00:24:19,230 --> 00:24:21,870
Clinton California, which is

758
00:24:21,870 --> 00:24:25,320
another complicated situation to

759
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,030
explain. But basically there's

760
00:24:27,030 --> 00:24:29,040
you know, drug cartels organized

761
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,960
crime and intelligence all tied

762
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,610
up in there. And they backdoor

763
00:24:32,610 --> 00:24:35,340
promise to and then but this

764
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,560
version of promise, it was

765
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,570
mostly sold to banks and one of

766
00:24:39,570 --> 00:24:41,130
the vehicles for selling that to

767
00:24:41,130 --> 00:24:43,920
banks was Systematics. Yeah. And

768
00:24:43,950 --> 00:24:46,230
that in so promise eventually

769
00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:47,190
starts to be used by a lot of

770
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:48,570
major banking institutions,

771
00:24:48,570 --> 00:24:51,480
including BCCI also, including

772
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,030
the World Bank, and it gets, you

773
00:24:54,030 --> 00:24:54,960
know, again, it gets really

774
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,280
crazy really quickly because you

775
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:57,630
have people involved in like the

776
00:24:57,630 --> 00:24:59,490
sale of promise for the purpose

777
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,050
of using And finally, in the

778
00:25:01,050 --> 00:25:02,520
financial system, you have

779
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,530
people like Adnan Khashoggi

780
00:25:04,530 --> 00:25:06,300
involved. Yeah, that's weird,

781
00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:08,070
right? You know, like a weapons

782
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:09,540
dealer and stuff. So like, you

783
00:25:09,540 --> 00:25:11,130
see all these people pop up. And

784
00:25:11,130 --> 00:25:14,460
basically, you know, it, the

785
00:25:14,490 --> 00:25:15,960
What promise was used for was

786
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,790
either was to track stuff. I

787
00:25:17,790 --> 00:25:18,630
mean, that's what it was good

788
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:20,250
at. So it either track people or

789
00:25:20,250 --> 00:25:21,870
attract money. And so it was

790
00:25:22,050 --> 00:25:23,520
very useful to money launderers

791
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:24,240
because it allowed them to

792
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:25,590
launder money more effectively

793
00:25:25,590 --> 00:25:26,640
than ever before. And on a much

794
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:27,390
bigger scale.

795
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,310
Right. Yeah. And I think like,

796
00:25:29,310 --> 00:25:30,840
the way that I understand

797
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,850
promise is that it was kind of a

798
00:25:32,850 --> 00:25:34,650
modular system that allowed you

799
00:25:34,650 --> 00:25:36,660
to bring together like multiple

800
00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:39,600
different databases. Like Yeah,

801
00:25:39,630 --> 00:25:40,860
so like, that's kind of like how

802
00:25:40,860 --> 00:25:42,690
its tracking capacity work was

803
00:25:42,690 --> 00:25:44,250
by kind of integrating these

804
00:25:44,250 --> 00:25:46,140
databases like siloing them.

805
00:25:46,860 --> 00:25:48,180
Yeah, you could go from like,

806
00:25:48,180 --> 00:25:49,710
one, you know, you'd have that

807
00:25:49,710 --> 00:25:50,850
information you can track it

808
00:25:50,850 --> 00:25:51,600
across. So

809
00:25:51,810 --> 00:25:53,520
anyways, as I see it, it

810
00:25:53,550 --> 00:25:55,320
wherever promised got installed

811
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,120
in the in the financial world,

812
00:25:57,300 --> 00:26:00,420
this mafia or group, you know,

813
00:26:00,420 --> 00:26:02,580
group around Stephens, this web

814
00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:03,840
swamp, whatever you want to call

815
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,940
it, you know, gets access to

816
00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:08,550
these banks, through promise,

817
00:26:08,550 --> 00:26:09,660
there's a backdoor in it, and

818
00:26:09,660 --> 00:26:11,070
they can track it, and they can

819
00:26:11,310 --> 00:26:13,110
launder money, whatever. And so,

820
00:26:13,140 --> 00:26:14,790
you know, and this was pointed

821
00:26:14,790 --> 00:26:16,080
out in the book, too, Epstein

822
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,190
was very much involved with this

823
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:18,480
world had a relationship with

824
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,270
BCCI. And all of these actors

825
00:26:21,270 --> 00:26:24,000
here. So in this period, you

826
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,320
know, in the 80s, he talked

827
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,690
about how he could help hide or

828
00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:29,910
find looted money. And, you

829
00:26:29,910 --> 00:26:31,680
know, sort of basically like,

830
00:26:31,860 --> 00:26:33,270
doing what what promise was

831
00:26:33,270 --> 00:26:34,500
doing for some other people and

832
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:35,910
maybe even use promise, I mean,

833
00:26:35,910 --> 00:26:37,710
we don't really know, but he's

834
00:26:37,710 --> 00:26:39,180
definitely swimming around in

835
00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:40,830
this world at the time, right?

836
00:26:41,010 --> 00:26:42,330
So it's significant that you

837
00:26:42,330 --> 00:26:45,060
have Middleton here, you know,

838
00:26:45,060 --> 00:26:46,290
basically swimming in that same

839
00:26:46,290 --> 00:26:48,270
world, and maybe they probably

840
00:26:48,270 --> 00:26:49,740
didn't connect back in the 80s.

841
00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:50,850
But they definitely did in the

842
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,410
in the 90s. And so, you know,

843
00:26:52,410 --> 00:26:53,400
this is some important

844
00:26:54,030 --> 00:26:55,470
background as well as we'll get

845
00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:58,860
into later. So I guess now it's

846
00:26:58,860 --> 00:27:00,060
probably a good time to talk

847
00:27:00,060 --> 00:27:04,410
about what I think is is missing

848
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,540
really a misnomer. But the

849
00:27:06,540 --> 00:27:07,980
scandal that Mark Middleton was

850
00:27:07,980 --> 00:27:09,150
at the center of at the White

851
00:27:09,150 --> 00:27:10,530
House, which overlaps with the

852
00:27:10,530 --> 00:27:11,850
exact same period of time he was

853
00:27:11,850 --> 00:27:14,580
meeting with Epstein is most by

854
00:27:14,580 --> 00:27:16,470
most people remembered as China

855
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:18,570
Gate. But it's really more

856
00:27:18,570 --> 00:27:20,490
accurately called riadi gate

857
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:21,900
with Riyadh. He's again standing

858
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:23,640
for the family of Mokhtar riadi.

859
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:24,870
And I think, you know, mainly

860
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:26,940
his son James is the the one

861
00:27:26,940 --> 00:27:29,550
that pops up here a lot. But,

862
00:27:29,580 --> 00:27:30,870
you know, I think that's a much

863
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:33,780
more accurate name. We can get

864
00:27:33,780 --> 00:27:36,780
into that. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

865
00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:37,980
it's also remember to is like

866
00:27:37,980 --> 00:27:39,360
the illegal finance

867
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:41,250
contributions scandal or

868
00:27:41,250 --> 00:27:43,440
something because it's contrary

869
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,140
Yeah, yeah. So it it did involve

870
00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:48,060
illegal financing. But there's

871
00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:49,950
obviously a lot more going on.

872
00:27:49,950 --> 00:27:51,420
So I think that's also a

873
00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:52,470
misnomer, because you're

874
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:53,790
focusing on just Okay, so they

875
00:27:53,790 --> 00:27:56,040
took illegal donations, but

876
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:57,570
they're not looking at what

877
00:27:57,570 --> 00:27:59,310
happened as a result of those

878
00:27:59,310 --> 00:28:00,690
illegal donations being made.

879
00:28:00,690 --> 00:28:03,000
Right. So yeah, for sure. Yeah.

880
00:28:03,030 --> 00:28:05,700
So we have a lot to get into.

881
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,420
With that being said, so Right.

882
00:28:09,420 --> 00:28:10,710
So Mark Middleton, as I

883
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:12,240
mentioned earlier, was special

884
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,890
assistant to Mack McLarty, who

885
00:28:13,890 --> 00:28:15,930
was chief of staff for a couple

886
00:28:15,930 --> 00:28:17,730
years and then I think until

887
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,270
like mid 1994, he has a change

888
00:28:21,270 --> 00:28:22,620
in position, he becomes Special

889
00:28:22,620 --> 00:28:24,270
Envoy for the Americas and then

890
00:28:24,270 --> 00:28:25,680
he's like a special adviser,

891
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,630
like counselor to the president.

892
00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:30,900
And Middleton was described as a

893
00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:33,360
former Little Rock lawyer with

894
00:28:33,390 --> 00:28:35,250
ties to Clinton prior to him

895
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,230
becoming president. And we know

896
00:28:37,230 --> 00:28:38,580
he worked at worth and bank we

897
00:28:38,580 --> 00:28:40,140
don't know, as far as I know,

898
00:28:40,140 --> 00:28:41,460
what law firm he was involved

899
00:28:41,460 --> 00:28:42,990
with. Maybe it was Rose Law.

900
00:28:42,990 --> 00:28:44,040
That might make sense.

901
00:28:44,369 --> 00:28:48,089
i It wasn't Rose Law, and I

902
00:28:48,089 --> 00:28:51,209
believe that it was the law firm

903
00:28:51,299 --> 00:28:54,899
that Jim guy Tucker worked at,

904
00:28:54,959 --> 00:28:58,619
and this was Clinton's by kids,

905
00:28:58,709 --> 00:29:00,509
Lieutenant Governor, and then

906
00:29:00,509 --> 00:29:02,519
who succeeded him as governor.

907
00:29:02,819 --> 00:29:04,109
But it's funny because Jim guy

908
00:29:04,109 --> 00:29:05,759
Tucker actually got his career

909
00:29:05,789 --> 00:29:07,439
started at Rose Law. So

910
00:29:07,650 --> 00:29:09,450
still, sort of like a satellite

911
00:29:09,450 --> 00:29:11,310
for maybe in terms. Yeah, yeah.

912
00:29:11,340 --> 00:29:13,170
This network? Yeah. So he was

913
00:29:13,170 --> 00:29:14,490
indicted as part of the

914
00:29:14,790 --> 00:29:16,530
whitewater investigations. I

915
00:29:16,530 --> 00:29:17,880
think he did jail time for it.

916
00:29:18,210 --> 00:29:20,370
Yeah. Okay. Well, make sense.

917
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,510
Yeah. A lot of these people

918
00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:23,430
should be in jail. So as I

919
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:24,450
mentioned earlier, Epstein

920
00:29:24,450 --> 00:29:27,510
visited the White House about a

921
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:28,830
lot of his early visits were

922
00:29:28,830 --> 00:29:29,820
involved. The first one was

923
00:29:29,820 --> 00:29:31,500
involved involved, Robert Rubin,

924
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,240
who later goes on to be treasury

925
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,100
secretary under Clinton. And

926
00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:36,600
then the other two meetings in

927
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,780
1993 involve this donor

928
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:41,310
reception to the White House

929
00:29:41,310 --> 00:29:42,780
Historical Association, which is

930
00:29:42,780 --> 00:29:44,190
interesting for other reasons,

931
00:29:44,190 --> 00:29:45,330
but we're not getting into that

932
00:29:45,330 --> 00:29:47,550
today. Because that is like

933
00:29:47,550 --> 00:29:49,260
another whole hive of insanity.

934
00:29:49,470 --> 00:29:52,500
So anyway, most of the visits

935
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:55,230
took place in in 1994, in the

936
00:29:55,230 --> 00:29:57,660
last one was January 1995. So

937
00:29:57,690 --> 00:29:59,400
most of these visits are taking

938
00:29:59,820 --> 00:30:01,200
place. So in a relatively short

939
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,330
period of time, and several of

940
00:30:03,330 --> 00:30:05,400
these visits at will not

941
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:06,930
several, but on a couple of

942
00:30:06,930 --> 00:30:08,310
them, you know, there's two, he

943
00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:09,690
goes twice to the White House

944
00:30:09,690 --> 00:30:11,100
and one day, I think on three

945
00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:12,450
separate times throughout 19

946
00:30:12,450 --> 00:30:14,400
interest. So he's going pretty

947
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,200
regularly. And this is the same

948
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,810
year, while Really 9090 4096 At

949
00:30:18,810 --> 00:30:20,400
the, you know, the

950
00:30:20,490 --> 00:30:22,530
coconspirators of quote unquote

951
00:30:22,530 --> 00:30:24,000
China Gate are also going in

952
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,750
meeting with Middleton. So, when

953
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:29,010
it came up more recently, as I

954
00:30:29,010 --> 00:30:30,330
mentioned earlier in the intro,

955
00:30:30,330 --> 00:30:31,650
the Daily Mail was the people

956
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:32,880
were it was the outlet that was

957
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,380
reporting on Middleton's

958
00:30:34,590 --> 00:30:36,720
meetings with Epstein. And they

959
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,400
quoted a guy that was familiar

960
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:39,900
with Middleton's role at the

961
00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:42,840
White House as saying that Mark

962
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,220
Middleton knew that Epstein was

963
00:30:44,220 --> 00:30:46,050
managing Leslie Wexner as money.

964
00:30:46,350 --> 00:30:48,990
And he says next 94 was when

965
00:30:48,990 --> 00:30:50,430
they were dealing with midterm

966
00:30:50,790 --> 00:30:52,770
elections, and Mark Middleton

967
00:30:52,770 --> 00:30:54,120
thought he gets some some of

968
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,010
Wexler has money to benefit the

969
00:30:56,010 --> 00:30:58,410
DNC, right. So this is

970
00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:00,360
important, because as you know,

971
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:01,620
we mentioned a little bit ago,

972
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:02,940
this whole scandal that

973
00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:04,320
Middleton becomes involved in is

974
00:31:04,350 --> 00:31:05,760
allegedly about illegal

975
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,410
financing, but it's really a lot

976
00:31:07,410 --> 00:31:09,600
more than that. And so we have

977
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:10,680
to keep all this in mind when

978
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,320
we're trying to demystify what I

979
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,030
was doing there. But another one

980
00:31:15,030 --> 00:31:16,470
of these people that was really

981
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:19,320
involved in illegal financing,

982
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:21,270
and who was very much involved

983
00:31:21,270 --> 00:31:23,460
in this swamp of Jackson

984
00:31:23,460 --> 00:31:25,320
Stevens, and the reality family

985
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,540
is a guy named John Huang, or

986
00:31:27,540 --> 00:31:29,160
Johnny Huang, I guess he was

987
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,540
referred to in the media as a

988
00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:32,340
lot. And he also raised a lot of

989
00:31:32,610 --> 00:31:34,800
illegal funds for the DNC for

990
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,770
that particular election cycle.

991
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,860
Yeah. So how long has this

992
00:31:40,860 --> 00:31:43,290
really long banking career

993
00:31:43,290 --> 00:31:44,970
before he ends up, you know, in

994
00:31:44,970 --> 00:31:47,070
this kind of bizarre web around

995
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:49,680
the Clinton White House, and I

996
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,050
tried to really trace it back,

997
00:31:52,050 --> 00:31:53,640
there's lots of kinds of gaps

998
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,160
and unexplained areas, like we

999
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,600
know, he went to the University

1000
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,100
of Connecticut, studying

1001
00:31:59,100 --> 00:32:01,920
business relations there, he

1002
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,590
became the head of like, a US

1003
00:32:04,590 --> 00:32:06,960
China student body. At that

1004
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,300
time, there's really no details

1005
00:32:09,300 --> 00:32:11,670
about that. But during the

1006
00:32:11,670 --> 00:32:15,240
1970s, he moved to DC, where he

1007
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,550
took a job at a little known

1008
00:32:17,550 --> 00:32:19,650
bank called the American

1009
00:32:19,650 --> 00:32:22,560
security bank. And it's really

1010
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,500
hard to find many details at

1011
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:27,150
all, you know, there's two

1012
00:32:27,150 --> 00:32:28,260
places where you can find

1013
00:32:28,260 --> 00:32:29,820
information about this bank, one

1014
00:32:29,820 --> 00:32:33,060
of them is the campaign finance

1015
00:32:33,060 --> 00:32:35,670
controversy documents, the other

1016
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:38,010
turns out to be like in a lot of

1017
00:32:38,010 --> 00:32:39,840
the BCCI documents that are

1018
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,990
declassified. We know that this

1019
00:32:42,990 --> 00:32:44,760
was the bank that was used by

1020
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,000
the Chinese Embassy in DC, but

1021
00:32:48,030 --> 00:32:49,920
particularly interesting, I

1022
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,720
think, is its role that it

1023
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,170
played in BCCI as penetration of

1024
00:32:55,170 --> 00:32:57,510
the US banking system. So you

1025
00:32:57,510 --> 00:32:58,980
know, like we talked earlier

1026
00:32:59,010 --> 00:33:01,140
about this financial general

1027
00:33:01,140 --> 00:33:02,970
bank shares the, this was the

1028
00:33:02,970 --> 00:33:06,120
bank that BCCI took over. After

1029
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,040
they took it over. They took the

1030
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,540
bank like public and, you know,

1031
00:33:09,540 --> 00:33:11,340
kind of I sold shares have been

1032
00:33:11,340 --> 00:33:13,650
on the open market. And when

1033
00:33:13,650 --> 00:33:15,810
people bought shares of

1034
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,400
financial general, they had to

1035
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,050
do it through two banks. One of

1036
00:33:19,050 --> 00:33:20,760
them, of course, was Chase

1037
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,890
Manhattan, and then the other

1038
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,100
was American security bank. So

1039
00:33:26,130 --> 00:33:28,440
long, you know, the time in

1040
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,120
which he was at American

1041
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,060
security bank actually overlaps

1042
00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:35,190
kind of perfectly in time, with,

1043
00:33:35,220 --> 00:33:36,990
you know, its interactions with

1044
00:33:36,990 --> 00:33:41,040
BCCI. After American security

1045
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,350
bank, he moved to Kentucky,

1046
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:44,850
where he joined the

1047
00:33:44,850 --> 00:33:47,310
international division of a bank

1048
00:33:47,310 --> 00:33:48,960
called First National Bank of

1049
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,330
Louisville. And this bank is

1050
00:33:51,330 --> 00:33:53,820
like, really fascinating. Their

1051
00:33:53,820 --> 00:33:55,380
mental. Yeah, there's a lot

1052
00:33:55,380 --> 00:33:57,120
going on there briefly. You

1053
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,260
know, it's in the book a little

1054
00:33:58,260 --> 00:34:01,050
bit. But one of the things that

1055
00:34:01,050 --> 00:34:02,190
I think's pretty significant

1056
00:34:02,190 --> 00:34:03,420
about them, and especially their

1057
00:34:03,420 --> 00:34:06,180
international division, is that

1058
00:34:06,180 --> 00:34:08,130
they were partnered with a bank

1059
00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:10,500
from St. Louis, and just kind of

1060
00:34:10,530 --> 00:34:12,480
curious outfit called the world

1061
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,760
Finance Corporation. And they

1062
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,010
launched this bank in Panama

1063
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,170
called Unibank, which they used

1064
00:34:19,170 --> 00:34:21,210
to make loans to Colombia's

1065
00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:23,490
agricultural sector. Now this

1066
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,750
might well because yeah, World

1067
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:30,600
Finance Corporation was run by

1068
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,080
former CIA trained Cuban exiles.

1069
00:34:34,290 --> 00:34:35,550
And it was a front for like a

1070
00:34:35,550 --> 00:34:37,830
massive cocaine laundering, like

1071
00:34:38,070 --> 00:34:39,990
cocaine running and money

1072
00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:43,350
laundering operation. If you can

1073
00:34:43,350 --> 00:34:44,520
look at court documents about

1074
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,080
this and like, you have like

1075
00:34:46,110 --> 00:34:48,570
attorney generals like state AGs

1076
00:34:48,570 --> 00:34:50,790
quitting saying like the CIA is

1077
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:52,410
not letting us prosecute this

1078
00:34:52,410 --> 00:34:54,810
bank. And you would actually

1079
00:34:54,810 --> 00:34:57,600
found ties between, you know,

1080
00:34:57,630 --> 00:34:59,220
World Finance Corporation and

1081
00:34:59,220 --> 00:35:01,350
like Leslie Next nurse circle.

1082
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:02,730
Yeah, that's kind of a

1083
00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:04,830
interesting kind of connection

1084
00:35:04,830 --> 00:35:07,800
to world Finance Corporation

1085
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,060
when it kind of fell apart,

1086
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,220
right in the time period when

1087
00:35:11,220 --> 00:35:12,930
how long is that first national

1088
00:35:12,930 --> 00:35:15,360
global, some of its apparatuses

1089
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,230
were then purchased by BCCI. And

1090
00:35:19,230 --> 00:35:22,440
so after this whole long moves

1091
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,500
to a bank in Memphis, called a

1092
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:28,860
union planters bank. And this is

1093
00:35:28,860 --> 00:35:30,210
a bank that had like, kind of

1094
00:35:30,210 --> 00:35:32,490
extensive ties into Arkansas,

1095
00:35:32,490 --> 00:35:33,720
just like where the elite of

1096
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:35,370
Arkansas would bank even though

1097
00:35:35,370 --> 00:35:37,980
it is in Tennessee, recent

1098
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:39,120
recently learned that this was

1099
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,040
another bank, there was a very

1100
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,510
closely tied to BCCI. And also

1101
00:35:46,050 --> 00:35:47,880
was particularly involved in its

1102
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,250
purchasing first general bank

1103
00:35:50,250 --> 00:35:53,130
shares. And so like, I didn't

1104
00:35:53,130 --> 00:35:54,810
really realize this before until

1105
00:35:54,810 --> 00:35:56,400
I was kind of sitting down and

1106
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,690
like, you know, kind of going

1107
00:35:57,690 --> 00:35:59,820
over my notes for this episode.

1108
00:36:00,150 --> 00:36:01,260
And I was like, Oh, this is

1109
00:36:01,260 --> 00:36:02,340
really weird, because it's like,

1110
00:36:02,340 --> 00:36:04,230
you have American security bank.

1111
00:36:04,290 --> 00:36:06,420
It's like linked to BCCI. You

1112
00:36:06,420 --> 00:36:08,130
have First National Bank of

1113
00:36:08,130 --> 00:36:09,690
Louisville, it's tied up with

1114
00:36:09,690 --> 00:36:11,040
the world Finance Corporation

1115
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,540
and kind of like BCCI by

1116
00:36:12,540 --> 00:36:14,580
extension, you know, union

1117
00:36:14,580 --> 00:36:17,100
plans, its BCCI. Again, it's

1118
00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:19,320
when he's at Union planters,

1119
00:36:19,530 --> 00:36:21,420
where he allegedly just like, by

1120
00:36:21,420 --> 00:36:24,420
chance, meets James riadi, who

1121
00:36:24,420 --> 00:36:27,510
has Mokhtar riadi son, but like,

1122
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,100
kind of going back and looking

1123
00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:30,690
at this. I'm starting to kind of

1124
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:33,090
doubt that story.

1125
00:36:33,450 --> 00:36:34,620
I mean, they lie a lot about

1126
00:36:34,620 --> 00:36:35,550
when they first met.

1127
00:36:36,359 --> 00:36:37,559
Yeah, I think I found like

1128
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:39,419
inconsistencies across time.

1129
00:36:39,419 --> 00:36:40,679
Like, you know, there's a story

1130
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:42,269
that they met in Hong Kong,

1131
00:36:42,269 --> 00:36:43,499
there's a story that they met in

1132
00:36:43,529 --> 00:36:45,329
Arkansas, the years are

1133
00:36:45,329 --> 00:36:48,209
different, but it's like, yeah,

1134
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,699
there's a shared history. It's

1135
00:36:50,699 --> 00:36:52,169
really strange. Whatever is

1136
00:36:52,169 --> 00:36:53,339
going on there, I think.

1137
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:54,390
Yeah, definitely something that

1138
00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:55,530
should have been investigated by

1139
00:36:55,530 --> 00:36:57,480
Congress, but wasn't when they

1140
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:58,680
were looking into how long but

1141
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,440
you know, it's fine. So anyway,

1142
00:37:01,830 --> 00:37:02,940
after that, thank you mentioned

1143
00:37:02,940 --> 00:37:04,650
one ends up relocating to Hong

1144
00:37:04,650 --> 00:37:07,860
Kong. And he's still working for

1145
00:37:07,860 --> 00:37:10,410
union planters. Yeah. At their

1146
00:37:10,410 --> 00:37:14,160
Far East Branch, and then he

1147
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:15,180
got, you know, after that he

1148
00:37:15,180 --> 00:37:16,830
ends up in having having met

1149
00:37:16,830 --> 00:37:18,480
James riadi. He goes to work for

1150
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,120
the family, and I think 1985 And

1151
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,190
so I think if I'm not mistaken,

1152
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:24,870
that's when he joined Worthen

1153
00:37:24,870 --> 00:37:25,440
bank. Yeah,

1154
00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:28,500
yeah, he like he worked as like

1155
00:37:28,530 --> 00:37:30,840
a representative of Lippo group

1156
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:32,400
like interests. That's how it's

1157
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,620
described. And then he Yeah, he

1158
00:37:34,620 --> 00:37:36,600
goes to work for were then in

1159
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,490
Arkansas. And this is where he

1160
00:37:38,490 --> 00:37:39,990
allegedly I think meets Mark

1161
00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:40,410
Middleton.

1162
00:37:40,740 --> 00:37:42,450
Allegedly so well, that's from

1163
00:37:42,450 --> 00:37:44,400
the Los Angeles Times. So you

1164
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,840
know, I they don't really say

1165
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:46,950
much else about it. Except

1166
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:49,620
that's how long Middleton and

1167
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,160
Huang have known each other. But

1168
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:54,480
yeah, so apparently, that's when

1169
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,220
they met. So a couple years

1170
00:37:56,220 --> 00:37:58,890
later, I think 9919 86 He goes

1171
00:37:58,890 --> 00:38:00,810
and works like Huang sorry, goes

1172
00:38:00,810 --> 00:38:02,100
to work formerly for the riadi

1173
00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:03,120
family. She goes to work for

1174
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,860
lipo bank, a lot of the riadi

1175
00:38:04,860 --> 00:38:05,880
family companies like you

1176
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:06,990
mentioned earlier and you know,

1177
00:38:06,990 --> 00:38:09,720
the lipo group, lipo bank, lipo

1178
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,330
land, you know, they tend to all

1179
00:38:12,330 --> 00:38:14,820
begin with LiPo with two Ps. By

1180
00:38:14,820 --> 00:38:15,750
the way, I didn't

1181
00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:17,310
even realize that lipo land was

1182
00:38:17,310 --> 00:38:18,390
a real like, I just thought it

1183
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:19,560
was like a funny nickname. The

1184
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:20,370
press came down

1185
00:38:20,370 --> 00:38:22,260
sounds like the worst theme park

1186
00:38:22,290 --> 00:38:27,600
of all time. Yeah, so anyway, he

1187
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,580
comes, um, you know, he goes to

1188
00:38:29,580 --> 00:38:30,720
formally basically work for the

1189
00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:33,450
realities. And then I guess gets

1190
00:38:33,450 --> 00:38:34,710
involved in another bank in

1191
00:38:34,710 --> 00:38:35,790
which the realities are heavily

1192
00:38:35,790 --> 00:38:37,230
invested called bank, Central

1193
00:38:37,230 --> 00:38:39,420
Asia. And then he goes to I

1194
00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:41,550
think, la in California, and

1195
00:38:41,550 --> 00:38:43,290
then he starts running basically

1196
00:38:43,290 --> 00:38:45,510
the US branch of the Lippo group

1197
00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:46,440
for the realities,

1198
00:38:47,610 --> 00:38:49,260
which has extensive real estate

1199
00:38:49,260 --> 00:38:50,550
holdings in California,

1200
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:50,880
apparently.

1201
00:38:50,910 --> 00:38:52,950
Right. And that came up with the

1202
00:38:52,980 --> 00:38:55,440
the DNC stuff, too. I don't know

1203
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:56,790
if you want to get into that or

1204
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:59,310
not, when they the some of the

1205
00:38:59,370 --> 00:39:00,510
the groups that were making

1206
00:39:00,540 --> 00:39:01,860
donations through Hwang to the

1207
00:39:01,860 --> 00:39:04,170
DNC in the in the 92 election.

1208
00:39:04,380 --> 00:39:06,780
Yeah, it was just like, there's

1209
00:39:06,780 --> 00:39:08,610
like a number of these kind of

1210
00:39:08,820 --> 00:39:12,720
strange little front groups that

1211
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:14,400
have long seems to have been

1212
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,770
kind of managing, which then

1213
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,780
were used to make these like

1214
00:39:18,810 --> 00:39:21,900
very extensive donations to

1215
00:39:21,900 --> 00:39:24,360
these like little apparatuses

1216
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:27,810
that the DNC set up. So like,

1217
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,850
for example, one of them like

1218
00:39:29,850 --> 00:39:31,170
the DNC had this thing called

1219
00:39:31,170 --> 00:39:32,910
the Victory Fund, which I'm not

1220
00:39:32,910 --> 00:39:35,310
exactly sure what that is, per

1221
00:39:35,310 --> 00:39:37,830
se. But another like there was a

1222
00:39:37,830 --> 00:39:40,290
front company called like, hip

1223
00:39:40,290 --> 00:39:42,210
hinging holdings and so like,

1224
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:43,260
you know, they would use these

1225
00:39:43,260 --> 00:39:45,720
various little companies to move

1226
00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:47,820
money into these DNC things like

1227
00:39:47,820 --> 00:39:49,710
hip kings holdings, your gave,

1228
00:39:49,710 --> 00:39:52,410
like, is it like 60,000 or

1229
00:39:52,410 --> 00:39:54,780
50,000? Think it was 50,000.

1230
00:39:54,810 --> 00:39:57,540
Yeah. 50,000 to the Victory

1231
00:39:57,540 --> 00:40:01,260
Fund. And so this was seemed to

1232
00:40:01,260 --> 00:40:03,960
have happened pretty much, very

1233
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,760
consistently through all through

1234
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,780
1992 and 1993. And I guess it's

1235
00:40:09,870 --> 00:40:12,540
important to mention that the

1236
00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:14,850
head of the DNC at this time was

1237
00:40:14,850 --> 00:40:16,890
the guy named Ron Brown, who Ron

1238
00:40:16,890 --> 00:40:18,930
Brown, talking a lot about and a

1239
00:40:18,930 --> 00:40:20,010
little bit, I think,

1240
00:40:20,130 --> 00:40:23,460
yeah, probably so. Yeah. So I

1241
00:40:23,460 --> 00:40:24,420
think it's also important to

1242
00:40:24,420 --> 00:40:25,770
mention to you that Hwang in the

1243
00:40:25,770 --> 00:40:27,870
same period of time, is also

1244
00:40:27,870 --> 00:40:29,280
involved in the efforts of the

1245
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,440
riadi family to rescue BCCI as

1246
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:32,550
Hong Kong branch.

1247
00:40:32,790 --> 00:40:34,320
That's a really Yeah, that's an

1248
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,450
important point, as

1249
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:37,680
well, that becomes important

1250
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,330
later. And then he also as part

1251
00:40:39,330 --> 00:40:40,950
of the same campaign cycle,

1252
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:44,400
plans, a Hong Kong portion of

1253
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:45,900
the trip, but in the DNC notes,

1254
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:47,580
they call it the Hong Kong lipo

1255
00:40:47,580 --> 00:40:49,710
portion of the trip of a DNC

1256
00:40:49,710 --> 00:40:51,420
delegation. And so the head of

1257
00:40:51,420 --> 00:40:52,950
that delegation, again, is DNC

1258
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:55,020
chairman, Ron Brown. And Ron

1259
00:40:55,020 --> 00:40:56,370
Brown is very important, because

1260
00:40:56,370 --> 00:40:58,350
he is he, you know, once Clinton

1261
00:40:58,350 --> 00:41:00,090
comes into office, he becomes

1262
00:41:00,090 --> 00:41:01,890
Secretary of Commerce. And he's

1263
00:41:01,890 --> 00:41:04,050
basically the main target, quote

1264
00:41:04,050 --> 00:41:06,900
unquote, of China Gate. Yeah. Or

1265
00:41:06,900 --> 00:41:08,310
riadi. Gate. I guess we should

1266
00:41:08,310 --> 00:41:09,540
just start calling it because

1267
00:41:09,540 --> 00:41:11,040
yeah, I really do think that

1268
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,560
works better. Yeah. I'm just

1269
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,140
used to, like, you know, that's

1270
00:41:16,140 --> 00:41:17,400
the only way when the only

1271
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:18,300
people that talk about this

1272
00:41:18,300 --> 00:41:19,710
stuff, call it China Gate. So

1273
00:41:19,710 --> 00:41:21,780
it's just kind of like, you

1274
00:41:21,780 --> 00:41:22,470
know, even though it's a

1275
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:24,120
misnomer, it sort of gets stuck

1276
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,530
in your brain that way. So I

1277
00:41:25,530 --> 00:41:27,120
will unstick that and just call

1278
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,320
it we'll just call it reality

1279
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,720
gate for the rest of the

1280
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:34,890
podcast. So anyway, so

1281
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,620
basically, all one does all this

1282
00:41:37,620 --> 00:41:38,880
stuff. And in this he's a very

1283
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,760
busy 1991. Yeah, with trying to

1284
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,620
rescue BCCI Hong Kong and making

1285
00:41:43,620 --> 00:41:44,790
all these shady donations to the

1286
00:41:44,790 --> 00:41:47,010
DNC that sort of foreshadow what

1287
00:41:47,010 --> 00:41:48,240
he does later in the the

1288
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:50,490
controversial 1996 cycle,

1289
00:41:50,700 --> 00:41:51,990
intimately involving Mark

1290
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:55,200
Middleton, and somewhere, Huang.

1291
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,630
You know, after Clinton wins the

1292
00:41:57,630 --> 00:41:59,610
election, Wong is basically

1293
00:41:59,610 --> 00:42:01,230
rewarded for his services, he

1294
00:42:01,230 --> 00:42:02,820
gets a top secret security

1295
00:42:02,820 --> 00:42:03,900
clearance while he's still a

1296
00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:05,880
private citizen, which is pretty

1297
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,820
nuts. And then he also, you

1298
00:42:08,820 --> 00:42:10,350
know, this was allegedly Because

1299
00:42:10,380 --> 00:42:12,450
Ron Brown now as head of the

1300
00:42:12,450 --> 00:42:13,890
Commerce Department had a quote

1301
00:42:13,890 --> 00:42:15,900
critical need for his meaning

1302
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:18,780
Huang's expertise. And that's

1303
00:42:18,780 --> 00:42:23,280
pretty mental. Yeah. Yeah. So we

1304
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:24,570
can get into this a little bit

1305
00:42:24,570 --> 00:42:27,120
later. But to wrap up while I'm

1306
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:28,440
here, it's important to say

1307
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:29,640
that, you know, he gets this top

1308
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,470
security clearance, and he's

1309
00:42:31,470 --> 00:42:33,000
doing some other weird stuff.

1310
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:34,500
Like he's making all these weird

1311
00:42:34,530 --> 00:42:36,330
trips to Stevens inks

1312
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,050
headquarters in DC. Around the

1313
00:42:40,050 --> 00:42:41,310
same time, he gets put in a

1314
00:42:41,310 --> 00:42:42,660
position at the Commerce

1315
00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:45,000
Department under Ron Brown. And

1316
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,440
what's also pretty weird about

1317
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:47,640
it is that there's records from

1318
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,760
the DNC of a lady named I guess

1319
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,530
her first name is melee melee,

1320
00:42:52,530 --> 00:42:54,630
Tom is her name. And so she used

1321
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:55,890
to work for the DNC, but right

1322
00:42:55,890 --> 00:42:57,150
after Clinton's elected, she's

1323
00:42:57,150 --> 00:42:58,470
hired by the radiant reality

1324
00:42:58,470 --> 00:42:59,610
family to be the reality

1325
00:42:59,610 --> 00:43:01,590
family's personal liaison to the

1326
00:43:01,590 --> 00:43:03,960
DNC to the Democrats. Right.

1327
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,650
Yeah. And so Tom writes to the

1328
00:43:07,650 --> 00:43:10,020
DNC and says, recommends one for

1329
00:43:10,020 --> 00:43:12,150
a job and calls one quote, the

1330
00:43:12,150 --> 00:43:13,830
reality family's top priority

1331
00:43:13,830 --> 00:43:15,510
for placement because he is like

1332
00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:16,560
one of their own.

1333
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,540
Yeah. And very much like an

1334
00:43:18,540 --> 00:43:20,760
agent for them. That's totally

1335
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:23,010
he's, you know, more than a spy

1336
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,590
for quote unquote, China, it's

1337
00:43:26,070 --> 00:43:27,450
just a front for the realities

1338
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:33,270
anyway. So reality gate. So that

1339
00:43:33,330 --> 00:43:35,280
at the same time that melee

1340
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:36,600
Thomas, you know, requesting

1341
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:37,620
that junk bond gets put in the

1342
00:43:37,620 --> 00:43:38,580
Commerce Department, there's

1343
00:43:38,580 --> 00:43:40,080
also efforts to put James riadi

1344
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:41,850
himself and something involved

1345
00:43:42,780 --> 00:43:44,130
with the Commerce Department, or

1346
00:43:44,130 --> 00:43:45,540
specifically a commissioner

1347
00:43:45,540 --> 00:43:47,550
advisory board involved with

1348
00:43:47,550 --> 00:43:48,660
international trade or

1349
00:43:48,660 --> 00:43:50,700
international banking. And

1350
00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:52,110
that's pretty significant, too.

1351
00:43:52,410 --> 00:43:53,700
So anyway, how long eventually

1352
00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:55,020
gets his position though, James

1353
00:43:55,020 --> 00:43:56,730
Riyadh, he doesn't, but he does

1354
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,470
end up being involved a lot with

1355
00:43:58,470 --> 00:44:00,420
Huang and the other main co

1356
00:44:00,420 --> 00:44:02,430
conspirator of riadi gate, who's

1357
00:44:02,430 --> 00:44:03,690
a guy named Charlie tree that

1358
00:44:03,690 --> 00:44:05,280
we'll get to in a second here.

1359
00:44:06,420 --> 00:44:07,860
But one basically gets approved

1360
00:44:07,860 --> 00:44:10,560
for a position at Commerce, he

1361
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:11,850
is going to be a Principal

1362
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,830
Deputy Assistant Secretary for

1363
00:44:13,830 --> 00:44:16,380
International Economic Policy at

1364
00:44:16,380 --> 00:44:17,610
the ITA, which is the

1365
00:44:17,610 --> 00:44:18,690
International Trade

1366
00:44:18,690 --> 00:44:20,700
Administration. And to circle

1367
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:22,290
back to something really odd

1368
00:44:22,290 --> 00:44:24,270
there. The ita was involved with

1369
00:44:24,270 --> 00:44:27,120
another company named Arkansas

1370
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,190
Systems tied to systematics that

1371
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:31,980
was selling possibly suspect

1372
00:44:31,980 --> 00:44:34,350
bank software to China's central

1373
00:44:34,350 --> 00:44:36,690
banking system. And, you know,

1374
00:44:36,690 --> 00:44:37,920
this was basically enabled by

1375
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:38,940
the ITA that was being

1376
00:44:38,940 --> 00:44:40,920
infiltrated by real agents of

1377
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,360
the reality family at the same

1378
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,070
time. So anyway, I'm not going

1379
00:44:44,070 --> 00:44:45,270
to get too into that tangent,

1380
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:47,100
but it's worth mentioning about

1381
00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:47,880
this whole idea of the

1382
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,170
penetration of the financial

1383
00:44:49,170 --> 00:44:50,370
system by these particular

1384
00:44:50,370 --> 00:44:51,960
groups like the reality Stevens

1385
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,610
network and all of that. So it

1386
00:44:53,610 --> 00:44:55,020
seems like that this was one of

1387
00:44:55,020 --> 00:44:56,460
the reasons they were involved

1388
00:44:56,460 --> 00:44:58,680
in targeting this, you know, the

1389
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,000
Commerce Department specific

1390
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,390
quickly. So anything you want to

1391
00:45:03,390 --> 00:45:05,040
add Edie? Yeah,

1392
00:45:05,070 --> 00:45:07,560
with Arkansas Systems, I just

1393
00:45:07,590 --> 00:45:10,050
wanted to mention that they were

1394
00:45:10,050 --> 00:45:12,330
like financed by this thing that

1395
00:45:12,330 --> 00:45:14,640
had been set up in Arkansas, it

1396
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,190
was called the ad FA, or the

1397
00:45:17,220 --> 00:45:19,230
Arkansas Development Finance

1398
00:45:19,230 --> 00:45:21,870
Authority. And this entity was

1399
00:45:21,870 --> 00:45:23,790
very much like Clinton's kind of

1400
00:45:23,790 --> 00:45:26,130
flagship and grown out of an

1401
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:27,780
earlier Housing Development

1402
00:45:27,780 --> 00:45:29,640
Authority. But what it was kind

1403
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,620
of about was like, economic

1404
00:45:31,620 --> 00:45:33,660
development and business growth

1405
00:45:33,660 --> 00:45:35,010
and kind of very tech

1406
00:45:35,010 --> 00:45:36,180
orientation, you know, it's

1407
00:45:36,180 --> 00:45:38,790
going to finance innovation hubs

1408
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:40,830
and science hubs. And it was the

1409
00:45:40,860 --> 00:45:42,780
very kind of like, insidious,

1410
00:45:42,810 --> 00:45:45,510
like intertwining of public and

1411
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:48,390
private sector interests. And

1412
00:45:48,390 --> 00:45:50,250
the way that it would work is it

1413
00:45:50,250 --> 00:45:53,250
would sell tax exempt bonds,

1414
00:45:53,490 --> 00:45:54,840
which were underwritten by

1415
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,430
private companies, and this

1416
00:45:56,430 --> 00:45:57,930
would like generate a capital

1417
00:45:57,930 --> 00:45:59,460
pool, which would then be

1418
00:45:59,460 --> 00:46:01,290
converted into like low interest

1419
00:46:01,290 --> 00:46:03,630
loans for businesses. And so

1420
00:46:03,630 --> 00:46:04,530
when you go back into the

1421
00:46:04,530 --> 00:46:05,550
history, and you look at a lot

1422
00:46:05,550 --> 00:46:07,680
of the documents about the ADFA,

1423
00:46:07,860 --> 00:46:09,930
Stevens Inc, was one of the

1424
00:46:09,930 --> 00:46:11,850
primary underwriters that they

1425
00:46:11,850 --> 00:46:13,620
used for these bonds that they

1426
00:46:13,620 --> 00:46:15,810
would issue and further loans

1427
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,660
were then bank would often be

1428
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:22,590
the trustee on the loans. And so

1429
00:46:22,590 --> 00:46:23,490
and then if you'd like, look, a

1430
00:46:23,490 --> 00:46:25,350
lot of the recipients, you know,

1431
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,470
it's always you look at any ADFA

1432
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:29,730
recipient, you're going to find

1433
00:46:29,730 --> 00:46:31,290
out that, like they use the Rose

1434
00:46:31,290 --> 00:46:33,570
Law Firm, and Stephens Inc, is

1435
00:46:33,570 --> 00:46:35,010
the majority shareholder and

1436
00:46:35,010 --> 00:46:35,970
whatever excellently

1437
00:46:35,970 --> 00:46:37,500
like that, yeah. Yeah.

1438
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,090
So it's like, it's very

1439
00:46:39,090 --> 00:46:41,220
consistent with this pattern.

1440
00:46:41,460 --> 00:46:42,120
And so you're talking about

1441
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:43,380
Arkansas Systems, you know, as

1442
00:46:43,380 --> 00:46:44,430
you start, like, tracing it

1443
00:46:44,430 --> 00:46:45,750
back, like, that's where it

1444
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:47,190
comes from, in the first place?

1445
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:49,230
Like, yes, kind of like, you can

1446
00:46:49,230 --> 00:46:50,580
just go in these endless like

1447
00:46:50,580 --> 00:46:52,500
loops with all these companies

1448
00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:53,520
and their ties.

1449
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:55,800
Really, though, I mean, it's,

1450
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,540
it's nuts. I mean, there was so

1451
00:46:57,540 --> 00:46:58,590
much like, couldn't go in the

1452
00:46:58,590 --> 00:46:59,760
book, because it was just like,

1453
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,680
too insane. Yeah, I

1454
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,330
have like, hundreds of pages of

1455
00:47:03,330 --> 00:47:05,250
like, dark, you know, notes I

1456
00:47:05,250 --> 00:47:06,090
wrote, like, I felt like I was

1457
00:47:06,090 --> 00:47:07,320
going crazy when we were

1458
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:08,460
researching this stuff,

1459
00:47:08,489 --> 00:47:11,219
or no, it really is crazy. So

1460
00:47:11,219 --> 00:47:14,189
anyway, to not make people's

1461
00:47:14,189 --> 00:47:15,569
brains fall out of their heads.

1462
00:47:15,569 --> 00:47:18,329
We'll try and keep it relatively

1463
00:47:18,329 --> 00:47:20,429
simple. As much as we can.

1464
00:47:20,429 --> 00:47:21,959
Anyway. So you know, this

1465
00:47:21,959 --> 00:47:23,549
particular part of the Congress

1466
00:47:23,549 --> 00:47:24,659
department that along was that

1467
00:47:24,659 --> 00:47:27,389
ITA, right, so let's recap

1468
00:47:27,389 --> 00:47:29,459
really quick, hot Huang engages

1469
00:47:29,459 --> 00:47:31,019
in the shady stuff with the DNC,

1470
00:47:31,019 --> 00:47:33,449
he gets top security clearance.

1471
00:47:34,289 --> 00:47:35,609
He's basically an agent of the

1472
00:47:35,609 --> 00:47:37,409
reality family while they're,

1473
00:47:38,339 --> 00:47:40,019
you know, the ITA approves

1474
00:47:40,019 --> 00:47:42,899
these. The suspect sale of

1475
00:47:42,959 --> 00:47:45,299
Arkansas Systems software does

1476
00:47:45,329 --> 00:47:47,129
the Central Bank of China.

1477
00:47:47,279 --> 00:47:48,509
They're also involved in a lot

1478
00:47:48,509 --> 00:47:50,339
of tech transfer stuff to the

1479
00:47:50,369 --> 00:47:52,739
former Soviet Union, as well,

1480
00:47:52,739 --> 00:47:54,839
which is relevant to other stuff

1481
00:47:54,839 --> 00:47:55,799
in the book that we're not

1482
00:47:55,799 --> 00:47:59,429
getting into today. But about

1483
00:47:59,429 --> 00:48:02,339
not that long after Juan was

1484
00:48:02,339 --> 00:48:04,259
there at the ITA, he's he's

1485
00:48:04,259 --> 00:48:05,879
getting classified information

1486
00:48:05,879 --> 00:48:07,289
relating to China, specifically

1487
00:48:07,289 --> 00:48:08,549
the ITA that he apparently

1488
00:48:08,549 --> 00:48:09,959
wasn't supposed to have. He was

1489
00:48:09,959 --> 00:48:12,029
supposed to recuse himself from

1490
00:48:12,029 --> 00:48:13,739
any matters involving Indonesia,

1491
00:48:13,739 --> 00:48:15,569
because he's so basically tied

1492
00:48:15,569 --> 00:48:18,179
up with the reality family. And

1493
00:48:18,179 --> 00:48:20,009
he ended up not recusing himself

1494
00:48:20,009 --> 00:48:21,149
from issues dealing with

1495
00:48:21,149 --> 00:48:23,129
Indonesia. And he's very

1496
00:48:23,129 --> 00:48:25,799
involved with Ron Brown's trade

1497
00:48:25,799 --> 00:48:27,719
missions to Asia, specifically

1498
00:48:27,899 --> 00:48:29,549
in on one trade mission that

1499
00:48:29,549 --> 00:48:30,599
happened not that long after

1500
00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:32,819
Hong Kong joined the ITA. Ron

1501
00:48:32,819 --> 00:48:34,769
Brown goes to China and he

1502
00:48:34,769 --> 00:48:38,789
returns with a big plan, I

1503
00:48:38,789 --> 00:48:41,519
guess. What is it a power plant

1504
00:48:41,519 --> 00:48:42,959
project? It was financed by the

1505
00:48:42,959 --> 00:48:43,919
Lippo group and was going to be

1506
00:48:43,919 --> 00:48:45,839
managed by some Arkansas

1507
00:48:45,839 --> 00:48:48,119
connected firm called inter G

1508
00:48:48,119 --> 00:48:48,959
Corp. Yeah.

1509
00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:50,070
Well, what's also interesting

1510
00:48:50,070 --> 00:48:51,330
about Entergy, I was looking at

1511
00:48:51,330 --> 00:48:52,800
this a little bit. They were

1512
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,770
very intertwined with Enron at

1513
00:48:55,770 --> 00:48:57,780
this time, and yeah, the

1514
00:48:57,780 --> 00:48:59,790
Enron stuff also, like, you

1515
00:48:59,790 --> 00:49:01,440
know, why why this book was

1516
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,150
happening? It was like, oh, man,

1517
00:49:03,150 --> 00:49:04,950
now I understand Enron so much

1518
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:07,080
more. Yeah. This stuff, you

1519
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:07,290
know,

1520
00:49:07,650 --> 00:49:08,940
it was one of those things that

1521
00:49:08,940 --> 00:49:10,950
just came up repeatedly. But I

1522
00:49:10,950 --> 00:49:12,030
just wanted to like mention that

1523
00:49:12,030 --> 00:49:13,530
because when Ron Brown was doing

1524
00:49:13,530 --> 00:49:15,300
a lot of these trips, he was

1525
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:17,310
traveling with Ken Lay a lot who

1526
00:49:17,310 --> 00:49:19,500
was the CEO of Enron. So that's

1527
00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:20,970
like a whole other component

1528
00:49:20,970 --> 00:49:22,590
of this, ya know, the Enron

1529
00:49:22,590 --> 00:49:23,880
stuff is mental, but that's, you

1530
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:28,110
know, for another time, yeah. So

1531
00:49:28,170 --> 00:49:29,430
another thing along starts doing

1532
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:30,180
when he's at the Commerce

1533
00:49:30,180 --> 00:49:31,290
Department, aside from this

1534
00:49:31,290 --> 00:49:32,520
stuff, where he seems to be

1535
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:33,690
acting as a reagent for the

1536
00:49:33,690 --> 00:49:34,920
realities he has, like all these

1537
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:36,180
top security clearances,

1538
00:49:36,210 --> 00:49:37,320
clearances he's not supposed to

1539
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:38,100
have and I can't remember if I

1540
00:49:38,100 --> 00:49:39,570
mentioned this or not, but other

1541
00:49:39,570 --> 00:49:41,550
people at the ITA thought one

1542
00:49:41,550 --> 00:49:42,900
was like, not qualified at all

1543
00:49:42,900 --> 00:49:43,860
for the work he was supposed to

1544
00:49:43,860 --> 00:49:45,390
be doing. So it's clearly like

1545
00:49:45,390 --> 00:49:47,040
a, you know, a favor to the

1546
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,180
realities that he's there in the

1547
00:49:48,180 --> 00:49:50,220
first place. And I guess, the

1548
00:49:50,220 --> 00:49:51,930
Stephens family as well,

1549
00:49:51,930 --> 00:49:53,040
because, you know, he's making

1550
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:54,630
all these weird trips to Steven

1551
00:49:54,660 --> 00:49:56,730
inks, offices, and no one knows

1552
00:49:56,730 --> 00:49:57,240
why.

1553
00:49:57,870 --> 00:49:59,640
Like, from what I could glean

1554
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,530
from a lot of the documents is

1555
00:50:01,530 --> 00:50:04,590
that the office in Steven Inc

1556
00:50:04,620 --> 00:50:06,480
was which these are the Stephens

1557
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,340
Inc, like headquarters in DC

1558
00:50:08,340 --> 00:50:09,420
it's and I think it's already

1559
00:50:09,420 --> 00:50:10,740
kind of suss that it's like,

1560
00:50:10,890 --> 00:50:12,210
across the street from the

1561
00:50:12,210 --> 00:50:14,580
Commerce Department. It's a

1562
00:50:14,580 --> 00:50:16,800
basically like, he had his own

1563
00:50:16,830 --> 00:50:18,780
office in there. And they like

1564
00:50:18,780 --> 00:50:19,980
to interview other people at

1565
00:50:19,980 --> 00:50:21,180
work in those offices, like,

1566
00:50:21,180 --> 00:50:22,260
what's wrong doing in there? And

1567
00:50:22,260 --> 00:50:23,130
everybody's like, I don't know

1568
00:50:23,130 --> 00:50:24,090
what he's doing. But he was

1569
00:50:24,090 --> 00:50:25,980
there all the time. Apparently.

1570
00:50:26,010 --> 00:50:28,920
Yeah. So what was he doing? I

1571
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:30,180
don't know, Congress didn't find

1572
00:50:30,180 --> 00:50:30,570
out.

1573
00:50:31,110 --> 00:50:32,250
Anyone. In fact, they kind of

1574
00:50:32,250 --> 00:50:33,990
like, you know, it's something

1575
00:50:33,990 --> 00:50:35,490
that we're interested in. See,

1576
00:50:35,490 --> 00:50:37,500
they act very uninterested.

1577
00:50:37,530 --> 00:50:38,550
They're just like, oh, you know,

1578
00:50:38,550 --> 00:50:39,570
it's just a place where he gets,

1579
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,100
you know, verbs quiet from to

1580
00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:41,550
work.

1581
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:44,160
Like, yeah, yeah, it's like they

1582
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:45,240
write about it in the report.

1583
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:46,410
Like, it's just a little weird

1584
00:50:46,410 --> 00:50:49,020
quirk about what it's like, this

1585
00:50:49,020 --> 00:50:50,880
seems seriously sauces. Fuck,

1586
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:51,120
like,

1587
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:54,240
I think it's very clearly one of

1588
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:55,380
the more important things

1589
00:50:55,380 --> 00:50:56,070
actually.

1590
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,860
Yeah, you know, so Well, anyway,

1591
00:50:58,860 --> 00:50:59,970
let's get into some of the stuff

1592
00:50:59,970 --> 00:51:01,170
they actually did look into.

1593
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,570
Right. So as you know, the

1594
00:51:03,570 --> 00:51:05,070
election season start to pick up

1595
00:51:05,070 --> 00:51:06,990
this 94 to 96 period. There's

1596
00:51:06,990 --> 00:51:08,640
midterms and there's then the

1597
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,640
coming reelection campaign. How

1598
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:12,750
long start soliciting

1599
00:51:12,750 --> 00:51:14,370
contributions to the DNC while

1600
00:51:14,370 --> 00:51:15,270
he's still at the Commerce

1601
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:17,010
Department, which is illegal.

1602
00:51:17,220 --> 00:51:19,500
And then he basically, all these

1603
00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:20,940
people at the DNC start to be

1604
00:51:20,940 --> 00:51:22,890
lobbied to hire one directly.

1605
00:51:22,890 --> 00:51:24,930
And one of these people is Josie

1606
00:51:24,930 --> 00:51:26,670
Joseph gerar, who's the former

1607
00:51:26,670 --> 00:51:27,690
head of the Rose Law Firm you

1608
00:51:27,690 --> 00:51:29,100
mentioned earlier, by this

1609
00:51:29,100 --> 00:51:30,120
point. He's one of the main

1610
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:31,980
business partners of the US in

1611
00:51:31,980 --> 00:51:34,230
the United States. Yeah, totally

1612
00:51:34,230 --> 00:51:35,940
mental. And he's he's one of the

1613
00:51:35,940 --> 00:51:37,200
main people that starts lobbying

1614
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:38,460
the DNC, the higher Kuang,

1615
00:51:38,460 --> 00:51:39,720
basically, after he donates,

1616
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:43,260
like several grand like to the

1617
00:51:43,260 --> 00:51:44,460
DNC, and he's like, You should

1618
00:51:44,460 --> 00:51:47,040
hire one. And then also lobbying

1619
00:51:47,070 --> 00:51:48,720
for Juan to be hired at the DNC

1620
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:50,520
was Mark Middleton at that point

1621
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,070
in time. So at some point in

1622
00:51:53,070 --> 00:51:55,170
this period to period Milton and

1623
00:51:55,170 --> 00:51:56,880
Hwang are already linked up in

1624
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,170
Huang and riadi start to meet

1625
00:51:58,170 --> 00:52:00,390
each other really frequently. I

1626
00:52:00,390 --> 00:52:01,650
think in the same period that

1627
00:52:01,650 --> 00:52:02,670
we're talking about here, it's

1628
00:52:02,670 --> 00:52:05,370
95 times so way more than the

1629
00:52:05,370 --> 00:52:06,240
amount of times he met with

1630
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:07,920
Epstein. I mean, obviously,

1631
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,530
they're meeting like, probably a

1632
00:52:10,530 --> 00:52:13,110
couple times a week, or

1633
00:52:13,110 --> 00:52:13,950
something like that, or even

1634
00:52:13,950 --> 00:52:15,240
once a week or something like

1635
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:16,800
that, I guess this is a little

1636
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,750
longer span than than Epstein's

1637
00:52:19,020 --> 00:52:20,490
time visiting. And at the same

1638
00:52:20,490 --> 00:52:22,020
time, James riadi, is also

1639
00:52:22,020 --> 00:52:23,940
meeting with Middleton. But

1640
00:52:23,970 --> 00:52:27,360
that's 20 visits. And some some

1641
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:28,350
of these visits were calling in

1642
00:52:28,350 --> 00:52:30,030
riadi. Together, meeting with

1643
00:52:30,030 --> 00:52:31,620
Middleton, and a couple of

1644
00:52:31,620 --> 00:52:32,940
occasions riadi was meeting

1645
00:52:32,940 --> 00:52:34,620
directly with with Clinton and

1646
00:52:34,620 --> 00:52:36,480
Hwang accompanied him. And

1647
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:37,860
there's not a lot is known about

1648
00:52:37,860 --> 00:52:39,690
those meetings, including the

1649
00:52:39,690 --> 00:52:42,180
ones with Middleton, allegedly

1650
00:52:42,210 --> 00:52:43,350
from what we do know and what

1651
00:52:43,350 --> 00:52:44,550
Congress gathered, it was

1652
00:52:44,550 --> 00:52:46,860
related to China trade issues

1653
00:52:46,860 --> 00:52:48,960
and granting China MFN status or

1654
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,670
most favored trade, most favored

1655
00:52:50,670 --> 00:52:52,860
nation trading status. And this

1656
00:52:52,860 --> 00:52:54,090
seems to be one of the main

1657
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,460
potential reasons behind quote

1658
00:52:56,460 --> 00:52:58,530
unquote riadi gate, because

1659
00:52:58,530 --> 00:53:00,210
Clinton had originally campaigns

1660
00:53:00,540 --> 00:53:03,450
that he was going to oppose MFN

1661
00:53:03,450 --> 00:53:05,970
status for China over its human

1662
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,010
rights record, right. And then

1663
00:53:08,490 --> 00:53:10,770
he reverses his stance on that.

1664
00:53:10,770 --> 00:53:12,540
And then a year later in 1994, D

1665
00:53:12,540 --> 00:53:14,310
links MFN status from China's

1666
00:53:14,310 --> 00:53:15,210
human rights record.

1667
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,279
Yeah. And I, you know, I don't

1668
00:53:17,369 --> 00:53:18,509
think this was something we

1669
00:53:18,509 --> 00:53:19,859
really gotten to into the book

1670
00:53:19,859 --> 00:53:21,989
that much. But there were some

1671
00:53:21,989 --> 00:53:23,189
changes in kind of the

1672
00:53:23,189 --> 00:53:24,779
geopolitical situation that

1673
00:53:24,779 --> 00:53:25,499
we're having. And kind of

1674
00:53:25,499 --> 00:53:27,179
simultaneous to this, where the

1675
00:53:27,179 --> 00:53:29,069
US has always kind of had a very

1676
00:53:29,069 --> 00:53:30,839
kind of like pro Taiwan

1677
00:53:30,839 --> 00:53:32,489
perspective. But this sudden

1678
00:53:32,489 --> 00:53:34,709
kind of realignment took place.

1679
00:53:35,009 --> 00:53:37,829
At a time when China and Taiwan

1680
00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:40,649
were like increasing their trade

1681
00:53:40,649 --> 00:53:41,879
relations. There was kind of

1682
00:53:41,879 --> 00:53:43,979
like a realignment that was kind

1683
00:53:43,979 --> 00:53:45,389
of taking place in this post

1684
00:53:45,390 --> 00:53:47,220
Cold totally. So when you're

1685
00:53:47,220 --> 00:53:48,870
looking at riadi gate, you see

1686
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:51,000
Indonesia, you see Taiwan, you

1687
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,280
see Singapore, and you see

1688
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:54,540
China, and those are like the

1689
00:53:54,540 --> 00:53:56,220
main countries that come up in

1690
00:53:56,220 --> 00:53:57,330
this thing over and over again.

1691
00:53:57,330 --> 00:53:58,980
So it's definitely again a

1692
00:53:58,980 --> 00:54:00,210
misnomer to call it China gait

1693
00:54:00,210 --> 00:54:01,350
because you have a lot of Taiwan

1694
00:54:01,350 --> 00:54:02,490
stuff going on. And actually the

1695
00:54:02,490 --> 00:54:03,960
most controversial part about

1696
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:05,010
it, as far as Middleton's

1697
00:54:05,010 --> 00:54:06,720
concerned, involves the KMT and

1698
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:08,280
Taiwan. No, yeah, no,

1699
00:54:08,670 --> 00:54:12,090
absolutely. So anyway, so

1700
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:13,770
basically, Mark Middleton has to

1701
00:54:13,770 --> 00:54:15,270
leave the White House in

1702
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:17,310
February 1995. It's not exactly

1703
00:54:17,310 --> 00:54:18,930
clear why he has to leave

1704
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,580
though. It is worth noting that

1705
00:54:20,580 --> 00:54:21,900
Epstein's last meeting with

1706
00:54:21,900 --> 00:54:23,220
Middleton, it was just a couple

1707
00:54:23,220 --> 00:54:24,360
of weeks before he left the

1708
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:29,070
White House. So not that long.

1709
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:32,340
After he leaves the White House,

1710
00:54:32,340 --> 00:54:33,750
Middleton returns to the White

1711
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:35,460
House with James riadi to meet

1712
00:54:35,460 --> 00:54:37,080
with Clinton. And then the next

1713
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,170
day, Middleton is hired by this

1714
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,770
company that's basically like

1715
00:54:43,830 --> 00:54:46,290
run controlled by lipo the

1716
00:54:46,290 --> 00:54:48,390
realities again, and they hire

1717
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:50,490
Middleton. More specifically,

1718
00:54:50,490 --> 00:54:51,420
it's this company called

1719
00:54:51,420 --> 00:54:52,560
Arkansas International

1720
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,210
Development Corporation and then

1721
00:54:54,210 --> 00:54:55,980
they make a counterpart in the

1722
00:54:55,980 --> 00:54:57,480
Cayman Islands that's called

1723
00:54:58,140 --> 00:54:59,250
Arkansas International

1724
00:54:59,250 --> 00:55:01,260
Development Corp. ration two.

1725
00:55:01,860 --> 00:55:04,170
Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. And

1726
00:55:04,170 --> 00:55:05,220
that's the one that hires

1727
00:55:05,220 --> 00:55:06,390
Middleton. And they're paying

1728
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:08,190
him like, almost 13 grand a

1729
00:55:08,190 --> 00:55:09,720
month. A lot of money.

1730
00:55:09,870 --> 00:55:12,210
Yeah, that is a lot. I went and

1731
00:55:12,270 --> 00:55:13,800
tried to find like any kind of

1732
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:15,030
records about what kind of

1733
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:17,430
business they did. And usually,

1734
00:55:17,460 --> 00:55:18,960
like, you know, in the documents

1735
00:55:18,990 --> 00:55:20,640
that you're looking at, it talks

1736
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:22,350
about how it was mainly about

1737
00:55:22,350 --> 00:55:24,270
gaining influence by hiring

1738
00:55:24,270 --> 00:55:25,620
people with access to the

1739
00:55:25,620 --> 00:55:27,330
Clinton administration. Yeah.

1740
00:55:27,630 --> 00:55:29,040
But then like a lot of press

1741
00:55:29,070 --> 00:55:31,080
releases, kind of talk about how

1742
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:32,430
it's about promoting business

1743
00:55:32,430 --> 00:55:34,410
development in Asia. But the

1744
00:55:34,410 --> 00:55:36,600
only concrete thing I could find

1745
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:38,250
it was like, the Arkansas

1746
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:39,330
International Development

1747
00:55:39,330 --> 00:55:40,740
Corporation arranged for a

1748
00:55:40,740 --> 00:55:43,950
Walmart to open in Indonesia. So

1749
00:55:44,010 --> 00:55:44,400
yeah,

1750
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:45,720
yeah, it seems like something

1751
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:46,920
else was going on, because

1752
00:55:46,950 --> 00:55:48,570
Middleton's supposed to be on

1753
00:55:48,570 --> 00:55:49,590
the reality payroll, what he's

1754
00:55:49,590 --> 00:55:50,790
supposed to be doing is looking

1755
00:55:50,790 --> 00:55:51,930
for all these joint venture

1756
00:55:51,930 --> 00:55:53,700
opportunities for for the Lippo

1757
00:55:53,700 --> 00:55:55,890
group. And he doesn't produce

1758
00:55:55,890 --> 00:55:58,140
anything. And he's on their

1759
00:55:58,140 --> 00:55:59,790
payroll for like, several years.

1760
00:55:59,940 --> 00:56:01,500
And he's paid like hundreds of

1761
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:04,080
1000s of dollars to do basically

1762
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,530
nothing. Yeah. Well, yeah, but

1763
00:56:07,530 --> 00:56:08,790
that's if you believe what he's

1764
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:10,920
supposed to be officially doing

1765
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:11,970
in that period, you know,

1766
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:13,860
yeah, for sure. And just the

1767
00:56:13,860 --> 00:56:14,910
fact that it's like a shadow

1768
00:56:14,910 --> 00:56:16,260
company that's owned in the

1769
00:56:16,260 --> 00:56:19,050
Caymans is, you know, suggested,

1770
00:56:19,050 --> 00:56:20,850
you know, it's suggestive of a

1771
00:56:20,850 --> 00:56:22,350
pattern. Like when you see that

1772
00:56:22,350 --> 00:56:23,760
kind of stuff, it's, you're

1773
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:24,990
usually seeing like some kind of

1774
00:56:24,990 --> 00:56:26,790
like, dark money network that's

1775
00:56:26,790 --> 00:56:27,690
being formed.

1776
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,550
So you know, there's some really

1777
00:56:29,550 --> 00:56:30,840
weird meetings that Middleton

1778
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:32,280
does in this period. There's one

1779
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:33,480
where he's like, you know, he

1780
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:35,280
travels through Asia all the

1781
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:36,930
time. And on some of these

1782
00:56:36,930 --> 00:56:37,920
occasions that come up in the

1783
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,510
congressional reports, he's

1784
00:56:39,510 --> 00:56:41,670
like, described as holding CT.

1785
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,060
Like in a hotel room, like it's

1786
00:56:45,060 --> 00:56:46,530
a two room hotel room, it's like

1787
00:56:46,530 --> 00:56:47,850
a suite, right? And then there's

1788
00:56:47,850 --> 00:56:48,870
this waiting room, and it's just

1789
00:56:48,870 --> 00:56:51,480
full of like, influential Asian

1790
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:52,620
businessmen, and they're all

1791
00:56:52,620 --> 00:56:53,670
coming in to meet with Mark

1792
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:54,810
Middleton, one by one, and no

1793
00:56:54,810 --> 00:56:57,300
one knows why. Because one thing

1794
00:56:57,300 --> 00:56:58,140
I should point out about this

1795
00:56:58,140 --> 00:56:59,550
congressional investigation is

1796
00:56:59,550 --> 00:57:01,080
that like, hardly anyone

1797
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:02,940
cooperated with it, including

1798
00:57:02,940 --> 00:57:05,340
people they subpoena it, like

1799
00:57:05,340 --> 00:57:06,120
Mark Middleton is a good

1800
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:07,980
example. He had to testify in

1801
00:57:07,980 --> 00:57:08,880
front of Congress, but he

1802
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,470
pleaded the fifth 28 times

1803
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:11,730
including when he was asked, Are

1804
00:57:11,730 --> 00:57:12,840
you an agent of a foreign

1805
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:13,320
government?

1806
00:57:13,470 --> 00:57:15,330
It was really annoying to read,

1807
00:57:15,330 --> 00:57:16,740
like a lot of the transcripts.

1808
00:57:16,740 --> 00:57:17,160
So can't

1809
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:18,450
read Milton's testimony because

1810
00:57:18,450 --> 00:57:19,650
he's just like, No, sir. Can't

1811
00:57:19,650 --> 00:57:21,180
say it. So sorry, sir. plead the

1812
00:57:21,180 --> 00:57:22,590
fifth Barbara. You know, it's

1813
00:57:22,590 --> 00:57:24,630
awful. Yeah. Or it's just, you

1814
00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:25,650
know, just to read like you read

1815
00:57:25,710 --> 00:57:26,700
along and it's just like him

1816
00:57:26,700 --> 00:57:27,930
saying, like, oh, I don't know,

1817
00:57:28,170 --> 00:57:30,000
for a you know, hundreds of

1818
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:30,300
times.

1819
00:57:30,330 --> 00:57:32,340
Yeah. Yeah, they're all They're

1820
00:57:32,340 --> 00:57:33,210
all pretty much like that.

1821
00:57:33,210 --> 00:57:34,350
Except I think, Johnny John,

1822
00:57:34,350 --> 00:57:36,270
that has a really insane story

1823
00:57:36,270 --> 00:57:37,860
with Hillary Clinton, but I hope

1824
00:57:37,860 --> 00:57:40,740
we have time. Because it seems

1825
00:57:40,740 --> 00:57:45,030
just so unbelievable. Just nuts.

1826
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,660
Anyway, so why Middleton's doing

1827
00:57:48,660 --> 00:57:50,340
all of this and holding court

1828
00:57:50,340 --> 00:57:51,750
for the realities and basically

1829
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:53,100
engage in this weird influence

1830
00:57:53,100 --> 00:57:54,930
operation. He's maintaining a

1831
00:57:54,930 --> 00:57:57,420
voicemail in at the White House,

1832
00:57:57,420 --> 00:57:58,560
hands up business cards, like

1833
00:57:58,560 --> 00:57:59,670
he's still working at the White

1834
00:57:59,670 --> 00:58:00,900
House and all of this stuff. And

1835
00:58:00,900 --> 00:58:02,730
maybe he did have weird

1836
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:04,800
continued ties after he was not

1837
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,590
officially working there at the

1838
00:58:07,590 --> 00:58:10,740
time, and so eventually, in this

1839
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:12,690
are after Middleton's hire there

1840
00:58:12,690 --> 00:58:15,000
a couple months later, there's

1841
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,890
this meeting, and then Huang is

1842
00:58:16,890 --> 00:58:18,630
hired by the DNC, and given this

1843
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:19,980
title that didn't exist

1844
00:58:19,980 --> 00:58:22,080
previously, they like create a

1845
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:23,910
position for him. Yeah, and if

1846
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:26,190
he becomes DNC is Vice Finance

1847
00:58:26,190 --> 00:58:28,410
chairman, all of a sudden, and

1848
00:58:28,410 --> 00:58:29,730
then he gets involved in all of

1849
00:58:29,730 --> 00:58:34,860
this really shady stuff for for

1850
00:58:34,860 --> 00:58:36,690
the, you know, the, the

1851
00:58:36,690 --> 00:58:38,550
financing of the 1996 campaign,

1852
00:58:38,550 --> 00:58:40,200
and basically a lot of what the

1853
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:41,700
stuff is sort of like what he

1854
00:58:41,700 --> 00:58:43,230
had done in the in the 92

1855
00:58:43,230 --> 00:58:45,660
election for fundraising like

1856
00:58:45,690 --> 00:58:47,220
you know, in this is what

1857
00:58:47,220 --> 00:58:48,300
Charlie tree and a lot of these

1858
00:58:48,300 --> 00:58:51,030
other guys in, in this network,

1859
00:58:51,750 --> 00:58:52,830
you know, were doing they would

1860
00:58:52,830 --> 00:58:54,180
use like front companies to

1861
00:58:54,180 --> 00:58:55,770
funnel money to the DNC or they

1862
00:58:55,770 --> 00:58:59,490
would go to people that were

1863
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,500
like US citizens maybe like

1864
00:59:01,530 --> 00:59:04,200
Chinese or Taiwanese, but had US

1865
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:05,670
citizenship or US residency

1866
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:07,080
could like legally contribute.

1867
00:59:07,260 --> 00:59:09,150
And then they would say, okay,

1868
00:59:09,150 --> 00:59:11,040
donate X amount of money to the

1869
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:12,060
DNC and then it would be

1870
00:59:12,060 --> 00:59:13,710
reimbursed by someone that was

1871
00:59:13,710 --> 00:59:17,970
not a US citizen right and in no

1872
00:59:17,970 --> 00:59:19,500
one had the realities behind him

1873
00:59:19,500 --> 00:59:21,180
Charlie tree head reality

1874
00:59:21,180 --> 00:59:22,830
connections, but was tied up

1875
00:59:22,830 --> 00:59:24,480
with a guy that will get into a

1876
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,430
second name in lapsing, I think,

1877
00:59:26,430 --> 00:59:27,450
is how you say his name.

1878
00:59:28,140 --> 00:59:30,090
Yeah, I went down a huge rabbit

1879
00:59:30,090 --> 00:59:31,770
hole on how to pronounce this

1880
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:32,100
day.

1881
00:59:33,300 --> 00:59:34,470
I just figured I'd wing it

1882
00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:35,940
because you know, I'm, I'm not

1883
00:59:35,970 --> 00:59:37,470
probably ever going to do it.

1884
00:59:37,470 --> 00:59:38,970
Right. And I have bronchitis. So

1885
00:59:38,970 --> 00:59:40,200
I mean, I was I was extra

1886
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:40,650
screwed.

1887
00:59:40,830 --> 00:59:43,320
You pronounced it proper from a

1888
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:44,850
Cantonese perspective.

1889
00:59:45,540 --> 00:59:47,040
I'm so glad to do that. Thanks.

1890
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,640
Yeah, no problem. All right. So

1891
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:52,320
one thing that's important to

1892
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:54,510
bring up here that we didn't get

1893
00:59:54,510 --> 00:59:57,270
into previously, and this is

1894
00:59:57,270 --> 00:59:58,710
part of why I think it ended up

1895
00:59:58,710 --> 01:00:01,440
being being called China gait is

1896
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,510
because that the the reality is

1897
01:00:03,510 --> 01:00:05,010
basically in the early 90s, as

1898
01:00:05,010 --> 01:00:06,570
Clinton was becoming president

1899
01:00:06,660 --> 01:00:08,190
also became business partners,

1900
01:00:08,190 --> 01:00:09,360
you know, not just on Jackson

1901
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:10,590
Stevens and people like that,

1902
01:00:10,590 --> 01:00:11,790
but also basically of the

1903
01:00:11,790 --> 01:00:13,920
Chinese government. So

1904
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:15,960
it just has to do with their

1905
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,780
BCCI. Like, attempt. Yeah,

1906
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:20,640
yeah, do you want to talk about

1907
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:21,780
our I can talk about it,

1908
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,120
I can talk about it. There's not

1909
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:25,590
too much information about it.

1910
01:00:25,590 --> 01:00:28,290
But it was when BCCI was being

1911
01:00:28,290 --> 01:00:30,090
liquidated, kind of, you know,

1912
01:00:30,090 --> 01:00:32,160
they had branches all over the

1913
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,110
world, and other companies

1914
01:00:34,110 --> 01:00:36,000
would, you know, try to buy up

1915
01:00:36,060 --> 01:00:38,010
their assets and their banks,

1916
01:00:38,340 --> 01:00:41,580
and the BCCI Hong Kong branch

1917
01:00:41,580 --> 01:00:43,710
was put up for sale. And this

1918
01:00:43,710 --> 01:00:44,790
was kind of like a pretty

1919
01:00:44,790 --> 01:00:47,250
significant branch for this

1920
01:00:47,250 --> 01:00:48,720
bank, because this was the, you

1921
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:50,760
know, kind of major bank that

1922
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:52,470
was used by the Chinese

1923
01:00:52,470 --> 01:00:54,870
government, particularly in like

1924
01:00:54,900 --> 01:00:57,840
weapons cells. And, you know,

1925
01:00:57,840 --> 01:00:59,310
this was like a kind of like,

1926
01:00:59,310 --> 01:01:01,680
starting in the 70s, the Chinese

1927
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:03,720
government kind of made, it had

1928
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:05,520
its generalized kind of push

1929
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:07,980
towards like an export oriented

1930
01:01:07,980 --> 01:01:10,410
model of economic growth. And

1931
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:11,850
their weapons cells on a global

1932
01:01:11,850 --> 01:01:13,470
scale, were a major part of like

1933
01:01:13,470 --> 01:01:14,940
this export, and a lot of that

1934
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,610
was handled through this BCCI

1935
01:01:17,610 --> 01:01:20,130
Hong Kong branch. So as the bank

1936
01:01:20,130 --> 01:01:21,840
was being liquidated, that

1937
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,090
branch goes up for sale. And lo

1938
01:01:24,090 --> 01:01:25,470
and behold, the realities

1939
01:01:25,470 --> 01:01:26,910
through Lippo group are

1940
01:01:26,910 --> 01:01:29,670
interested in purchasing it. And

1941
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:32,010
what they do is that they end up

1942
01:01:32,010 --> 01:01:33,660
kind of partnering with a

1943
01:01:33,660 --> 01:01:37,110
company called China resources.

1944
01:01:37,410 --> 01:01:39,030
And China resources is kind of

1945
01:01:39,030 --> 01:01:40,890
just it's this trading company

1946
01:01:40,890 --> 01:01:41,940
that's run by the Chinese

1947
01:01:41,940 --> 01:01:43,650
government. And it's described

1948
01:01:43,650 --> 01:01:45,600
as the agent for all of the

1949
01:01:45,780 --> 01:01:47,580
People's Republic, and China's

1950
01:01:47,610 --> 01:01:49,410
foreign trade corporations,

1951
01:01:49,410 --> 01:01:51,600
that's kind of like a major hub.

1952
01:01:51,930 --> 01:01:53,100
And the way that this would work

1953
01:01:53,100 --> 01:01:54,330
is that, you know, they would

1954
01:01:54,330 --> 01:01:56,520
partner but China resources

1955
01:01:56,550 --> 01:01:58,380
would kind of do all the

1956
01:01:58,380 --> 01:02:00,660
financing of the deal. And in

1957
01:02:00,660 --> 01:02:02,400
the end, it ended up kind of

1958
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,110
falling apart. You know, the

1959
01:02:04,890 --> 01:02:06,930
BCCI, Hong Kong, kind of like

1960
01:02:06,930 --> 01:02:08,130
went into, like full blown

1961
01:02:08,130 --> 01:02:10,650
collapse wasn't purchased. But

1962
01:02:10,650 --> 01:02:12,270
the reality is kind of stayed

1963
01:02:12,270 --> 01:02:15,270
very close with China resources,

1964
01:02:15,540 --> 01:02:17,880
to the point where the realities

1965
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,070
had a bank called the Hong Kong

1966
01:02:20,070 --> 01:02:21,960
Chinese bank, and China

1967
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,150
resources like purchased, I

1968
01:02:24,150 --> 01:02:26,790
think it's like 15% of it. And

1969
01:02:26,790 --> 01:02:28,770
then, you know, like, in 93,

1970
01:02:28,770 --> 01:02:30,960
they increased, it's like 50%.

1971
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,000
So the realities, and this, like

1972
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:34,950
chief trading entity for the

1973
01:02:34,950 --> 01:02:36,600
Chinese government, were like,

1974
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,100
basically involved in this very

1975
01:02:38,100 --> 01:02:38,520
kind of like,

1976
01:02:38,550 --> 01:02:39,840
large became like a joint

1977
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:41,520
venture basically at that. Yeah,

1978
01:02:41,550 --> 01:02:43,440
yeah. And it's not just that it

1979
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:44,880
was like a Trading Corporation.

1980
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,010
But China resources was, you

1981
01:02:47,010 --> 01:02:49,380
know, identified as basically a

1982
01:02:49,380 --> 01:02:50,670
front not just for like the

1983
01:02:50,670 --> 01:02:52,020
Chinese government before, like

1984
01:02:52,020 --> 01:02:53,850
the People's Liberation Army,

1985
01:02:54,180 --> 01:02:55,680
and, you know, involvement in

1986
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,950
espionage. And like military

1987
01:02:58,950 --> 01:03:00,990
activity, and so you can kind of

1988
01:03:00,990 --> 01:03:02,760
see it not just as like a joint

1989
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:03,690
venture with the Chinese

1990
01:03:03,690 --> 01:03:04,950
government, but really, it's a

1991
01:03:04,950 --> 01:03:06,630
joint venture with the Chinese

1992
01:03:06,750 --> 01:03:08,730
military and intelligence app.

1993
01:03:09,330 --> 01:03:10,680
And so it's worth pointing out

1994
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,260
really quickly. BCCI, HK, the

1995
01:03:13,260 --> 01:03:15,960
Hong Kong one Hong Kong branch

1996
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,060
very involved with, basically

1997
01:03:18,060 --> 01:03:19,440
China's military industrial

1998
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,720
complex, to a huge degree, which

1999
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,630
was involved with arming Iran,

2000
01:03:24,660 --> 01:03:26,310
in Iraq during the Iran Iraq

2001
01:03:26,310 --> 01:03:29,700
War. And, you know, some of

2002
01:03:29,700 --> 01:03:30,990
those companies, companies like

2003
01:03:30,990 --> 01:03:33,300
Norinco, as mentioned in the

2004
01:03:33,300 --> 01:03:36,030
book, have very intimate ties

2005
01:03:36,030 --> 01:03:38,070
with Jeffrey Epstein's mentor in

2006
01:03:38,070 --> 01:03:41,070
the 1980s. Douglas lease. So,

2007
01:03:41,070 --> 01:03:42,540
anyway, just leave that there

2008
01:03:42,540 --> 01:03:44,010
for people to chew on for a

2009
01:03:44,010 --> 01:03:46,860
second. So, um, but this whole

2010
01:03:46,890 --> 01:03:49,290
military angle comes up a lot in

2011
01:03:49,290 --> 01:03:50,520
quote unquote, China Gate

2012
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:52,710
reality gate, because one of the

2013
01:03:52,710 --> 01:03:55,650
few you know, people that were

2014
01:03:55,650 --> 01:03:56,730
central to this that did

2015
01:03:56,730 --> 01:03:57,360
cooperate with the

2016
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:58,680
investigation, pretty much the

2017
01:03:58,680 --> 01:03:59,820
only one I think, is Johnny

2018
01:03:59,820 --> 01:04:02,250
Chung, he basically said that he

2019
01:04:02,250 --> 01:04:06,030
was courted by someone, the

2020
01:04:06,030 --> 01:04:07,410
daughter of a famous Chinese

2021
01:04:07,410 --> 01:04:08,790
general who was in charge of

2022
01:04:08,820 --> 01:04:10,080
another company that was sort of

2023
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:11,640
flagged as a as a front for the

2024
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,950
for the Chinese army, to

2025
01:04:13,980 --> 01:04:15,990
basically, you know, launder

2026
01:04:16,020 --> 01:04:17,820
money from Chinese military

2027
01:04:17,820 --> 01:04:18,930
intelligence and send it to the

2028
01:04:18,930 --> 01:04:22,230
DNC. And so that's pretty

2029
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:23,880
mental. And so that's a totally

2030
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:25,080
another person that's not Johnny

2031
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:26,580
Huang. Right but Johnny Huang

2032
01:04:26,580 --> 01:04:30,690
basically does, you know

2033
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:32,910
enacting is the realities man on

2034
01:04:32,910 --> 01:04:34,770
the inside. He basically does a

2035
01:04:34,770 --> 01:04:36,150
lot of the same stuff. So for

2036
01:04:36,150 --> 01:04:38,340
example, he connects China

2037
01:04:38,340 --> 01:04:39,540
resources to the Commerce

2038
01:04:39,540 --> 01:04:41,940
Department, lobbies, Ron Brown

2039
01:04:41,940 --> 01:04:43,530
to meet with the chairman of

2040
01:04:43,530 --> 01:04:47,160
China resources, and manages the

2041
01:04:47,190 --> 01:04:49,020
visit of China resources

2042
01:04:49,020 --> 01:04:51,240
chairman, he's a shin durin I

2043
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,010
think is how you say it, maybe

2044
01:04:53,010 --> 01:04:55,170
that's wrong. Anyway, he

2045
01:04:55,170 --> 01:04:58,950
manages, you know, their visit

2046
01:04:58,980 --> 01:05:01,050
and our arranges a meeting

2047
01:05:01,050 --> 01:05:03,150
between them and Al Gore and

2048
01:05:03,150 --> 01:05:04,980
stuff and is like very involved.

2049
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:06,360
So obviously, you know, they're

2050
01:05:06,420 --> 01:05:07,290
in a joint venture with the

2051
01:05:07,290 --> 01:05:09,390
realities. One is the realities

2052
01:05:09,390 --> 01:05:10,860
met on the inside. And he's also

2053
01:05:10,860 --> 01:05:13,200
like, as part of that helping

2054
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:14,820
advance the interests of this

2055
01:05:14,820 --> 01:05:16,290
China resources company that's

2056
01:05:16,290 --> 01:05:18,150
tied to, you know, military

2057
01:05:18,150 --> 01:05:21,720
intelligence of China. So that's

2058
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:23,190
complicated. And there's a lot

2059
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:24,870
of stuff going on here. Even

2060
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:25,890
beyond that, like there's these

2061
01:05:25,890 --> 01:05:27,480
weird fundraisers that were

2062
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,400
being held in Asia on behalf of

2063
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,410
the DNC, and Hwang and Charlie

2064
01:05:31,410 --> 01:05:35,070
tree. Both did that to a

2065
01:05:35,070 --> 01:05:36,090
significant degree. And they'll

2066
01:05:36,090 --> 01:05:36,960
have like a lot that they'd

2067
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:38,220
invite, like, a lot of powerful

2068
01:05:38,220 --> 01:05:40,260
businessmen, none of whom, often

2069
01:05:40,290 --> 01:05:42,060
maybe you'd have had a splat,

2070
01:05:42,060 --> 01:05:43,920
you know, a couple citizens, but

2071
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:45,390
the majority would not be in

2072
01:05:45,390 --> 01:05:47,310
some cases, none at all. And

2073
01:05:47,340 --> 01:05:48,750
there were, you know, witnesses

2074
01:05:48,750 --> 01:05:50,160
that they were being lobbied to

2075
01:05:50,190 --> 01:05:51,840
contribute to the Clinton

2076
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,030
campaign, and things like that,

2077
01:05:54,030 --> 01:05:55,710
and actually one of at one of

2078
01:05:55,710 --> 01:05:57,720
these fundraisers, one of this

2079
01:05:57,720 --> 01:05:59,580
was in Taiwan, I think, or at

2080
01:05:59,580 --> 01:06:00,540
least a lot of the businessmen

2081
01:06:00,540 --> 01:06:02,670
were Taiwanese. And one of them

2082
01:06:02,670 --> 01:06:03,660
had actually been caught for

2083
01:06:03,660 --> 01:06:05,640
laundering campaign funds to

2084
01:06:05,820 --> 01:06:07,320
city council candidates and Los

2085
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:08,130
Angeles,

2086
01:06:08,730 --> 01:06:10,590
Pacific Leadership Council, or

2087
01:06:10,590 --> 01:06:12,030
is this No, no,

2088
01:06:12,030 --> 01:06:13,350
that's, that's before. So this

2089
01:06:13,350 --> 01:06:14,670
was a meeting at the Jefferson

2090
01:06:14,670 --> 01:06:17,670
hotel in 96. That had a range.

2091
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,040
Yeah. But it's interesting,

2092
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:21,270
because, you know, some of these

2093
01:06:21,270 --> 01:06:23,010
guys that are non citizens had

2094
01:06:23,010 --> 01:06:24,930
previously been flagged for

2095
01:06:24,930 --> 01:06:26,880
laundering campaign funds, like

2096
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,180
into the US elections. Previous

2097
01:06:30,180 --> 01:06:32,730
to this. So that's the reason I

2098
01:06:32,730 --> 01:06:33,690
bring it up. And then there's

2099
01:06:33,690 --> 01:06:36,000
another one directly involving

2100
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:37,800
riadi. Okay, and it's at a

2101
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:39,540
fundraiser hosted by Lew

2102
01:06:39,540 --> 01:06:40,980
Wasserman, who is the guy that

2103
01:06:40,980 --> 01:06:42,570
comes up in the book a lot. If

2104
01:06:42,570 --> 01:06:43,590
you're familiar with the Epstein

2105
01:06:43,590 --> 01:06:45,120
flight logs, you will know that

2106
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:46,680
there is also a Wasserman

2107
01:06:47,910 --> 01:06:49,230
Epstein's flight logs that would

2108
01:06:49,230 --> 01:06:51,000
be the grandson of blue one.

2109
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,400
Yeah. Yeah, so anyway, that's

2110
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:55,470
also in the book, but little old

2111
01:06:55,470 --> 01:06:57,900
school mob. Yeah, totally. And

2112
01:06:57,930 --> 01:06:58,890
like you mentioned Jackson

2113
01:06:58,890 --> 01:07:00,990
Stevens having ties to Carter,

2114
01:07:00,990 --> 01:07:03,270
Reagan, Bush and Clinton, Lew

2115
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:05,070
Wasserman, is that to Lee

2116
01:07:05,070 --> 01:07:07,140
Wasserman, Jimmy Carter said the

2117
01:07:07,140 --> 01:07:08,730
first person he called outside

2118
01:07:08,730 --> 01:07:10,050
of Georgia when he planned to

2119
01:07:10,050 --> 01:07:11,190
run for president was Lew

2120
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:12,690
Wasserman. And like I asked his

2121
01:07:12,690 --> 01:07:14,280
blessing. Lew Wasserman is

2122
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:15,480
basically the man that made

2123
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:16,590
Ronald Reagan's political

2124
01:07:16,590 --> 01:07:18,780
career, a major donor to Bush

2125
01:07:18,780 --> 01:07:21,210
Senior and also a big financer

2126
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,840
of Clinton, as well so you know,

2127
01:07:24,870 --> 01:07:26,130
when you want to talk about

2128
01:07:26,130 --> 01:07:28,200
powerful businessman, with

2129
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:29,700
organized crime and intelligence

2130
01:07:29,700 --> 01:07:31,290
ties, who were behind the scenes

2131
01:07:31,290 --> 01:07:33,180
and scenes and like, political

2132
01:07:33,180 --> 01:07:34,410
kingmakers, you know, Lew

2133
01:07:34,410 --> 01:07:35,820
Wasserman and Jackson Stevens

2134
01:07:35,820 --> 01:07:37,350
are on the on that tear for

2135
01:07:37,350 --> 01:07:37,830
sure.

2136
01:07:38,100 --> 01:07:39,570
Yeah, and there's just like a

2137
01:07:39,570 --> 01:07:42,210
fun little factoid, fun and

2138
01:07:42,210 --> 01:07:45,750
quotes. Last year, he was the

2139
01:07:45,750 --> 01:07:47,880
guy behind MCA like the big

2140
01:07:48,090 --> 01:07:49,950
music and like acting

2141
01:07:50,970 --> 01:07:53,340
big Universal Studios now, yeah,

2142
01:07:53,370 --> 01:07:53,610
this is

2143
01:07:53,610 --> 01:07:55,110
like the mob penetration of

2144
01:07:55,140 --> 01:07:58,440
Hollywood sponsored the career

2145
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,750
of Ronald Reagan and full but

2146
01:08:00,750 --> 01:08:02,640
apparently Danny Castle era,

2147
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:03,990
like during you use the term the

2148
01:08:03,990 --> 01:08:06,240
octopus. He had gotten that from

2149
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:07,860
another book. I can't remember

2150
01:08:07,890 --> 01:08:09,510
the name of it atop my head, but

2151
01:08:09,630 --> 01:08:11,070
the term was being used to

2152
01:08:11,070 --> 01:08:14,310
actually describe MCA and it's

2153
01:08:14,310 --> 01:08:15,480
like relation to organized

2154
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:15,990
crime.

2155
01:08:16,140 --> 01:08:18,240
Yeah, well, MCA was being probed

2156
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:19,470
for its ties organized crime in

2157
01:08:19,470 --> 01:08:20,670
the 80s. It was quashed by the

2158
01:08:20,670 --> 01:08:21,630
Reagan administration,

2159
01:08:21,660 --> 01:08:22,920
obviously, as a favor to

2160
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:24,120
Wasserman who basically owned

2161
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:27,630
Reagan. And they're also MCA,

2162
01:08:27,630 --> 01:08:30,510
also, executives of MCA, pop up

2163
01:08:30,510 --> 01:08:32,100
in the PROMIS software scandal

2164
01:08:32,130 --> 01:08:34,110
several times. And if you read

2165
01:08:34,110 --> 01:08:35,490
Sherry Seymour's book on the

2166
01:08:35,490 --> 01:08:37,590
subject, or you'll have a much

2167
01:08:37,710 --> 01:08:38,910
clearer understanding of where

2168
01:08:38,910 --> 01:08:40,380
MCA fits in that picture. All

2169
01:08:40,380 --> 01:08:41,610
right, so in the interest of

2170
01:08:41,610 --> 01:08:42,810
time, is there anything else you

2171
01:08:42,810 --> 01:08:44,070
want to add on one before we

2172
01:08:44,070 --> 01:08:46,380
jump to Charlie tree?

2173
01:08:46,440 --> 01:08:48,090
I think we hit all the like

2174
01:08:48,090 --> 01:08:49,410
really important things I can't

2175
01:08:49,470 --> 01:08:50,580
can't think of anything.

2176
01:08:50,940 --> 01:08:52,740
Okay, right on so we talked

2177
01:08:52,740 --> 01:08:53,730
about long and it's pretty

2178
01:08:53,730 --> 01:08:55,650
obvious there that something was

2179
01:08:55,650 --> 01:08:58,770
really rotten with that. So

2180
01:08:58,770 --> 01:08:59,820
here's the other guy. We've

2181
01:08:59,820 --> 01:09:01,170
mentioned a couple times Charlie

2182
01:09:01,170 --> 01:09:02,400
tree that's not his real name.

2183
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,520
It was Yaalon tree. But you

2184
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:07,560
know, he had, he came to little

2185
01:09:07,590 --> 01:09:10,350
Little Rock from Taiwan, though

2186
01:09:10,380 --> 01:09:11,640
it doesn't appear that he was

2187
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:12,810
born in Taiwan. It appears he

2188
01:09:12,810 --> 01:09:13,830
was born in China and then

2189
01:09:13,830 --> 01:09:15,180
emigrated to Taiwan when he was

2190
01:09:15,180 --> 01:09:17,160
a teen. But anyway, he comes to

2191
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:18,930
the US in 1976. He goes to

2192
01:09:18,930 --> 01:09:21,390
Little Rock, Arkansas, and his

2193
01:09:21,390 --> 01:09:23,040
sister's there and they they co

2194
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,800
own a restaurant together. And

2195
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:27,630
Clinton ended up frequenting

2196
01:09:27,660 --> 01:09:28,860
this restaurant when he was

2197
01:09:28,860 --> 01:09:31,020
governor. And that's probably

2198
01:09:31,020 --> 01:09:33,450
because tree was donating to him

2199
01:09:33,480 --> 01:09:35,070
even before he became a citizen.

2200
01:09:35,340 --> 01:09:37,590
As early as 1982 You know,

2201
01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:39,090
between 1982 and the end of the

2202
01:09:39,090 --> 01:09:40,980
80s the two end up becoming

2203
01:09:40,980 --> 01:09:42,510
close somehow and tree starts

2204
01:09:42,510 --> 01:09:45,390
calling Clinton like Big Boss

2205
01:09:45,390 --> 01:09:47,610
and Mandarin or Cantonese. I'm

2206
01:09:47,610 --> 01:09:49,140
not sure exactly which dialect

2207
01:09:49,170 --> 01:09:52,470
it is. Wow, okay. Yeah. So you

2208
01:09:52,470 --> 01:09:54,030
know, that apparently trends

2209
01:09:54,030 --> 01:09:55,830
translates into big boss which

2210
01:09:55,830 --> 01:09:56,370
is just

2211
01:09:58,170 --> 01:09:59,370
shady sounding

2212
01:09:59,580 --> 01:10:00,930
shady sale doing that's for

2213
01:10:00,930 --> 01:10:02,100
sure. I mean, all I can really

2214
01:10:02,100 --> 01:10:03,750
do was sigh about it like, you

2215
01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:08,220
know. So, um, you know, in 1996,

2216
01:10:08,220 --> 01:10:09,690
this controversial campaign

2217
01:10:09,690 --> 01:10:10,860
financing thing you know,

2218
01:10:10,860 --> 01:10:12,630
Clinton is on video actually

2219
01:10:12,630 --> 01:10:14,250
calling referring to Trias, his

2220
01:10:14,250 --> 01:10:16,050
close friend of over two decades

2221
01:10:16,050 --> 01:10:17,970
and stuff. And tree actually has

2222
01:10:17,970 --> 01:10:19,530
ties of course to who else the

2223
01:10:19,530 --> 01:10:21,450
riadi is going back to the same

2224
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,060
period of time basically, around

2225
01:10:24,060 --> 01:10:26,040
1983 or so he becomes friends

2226
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:27,540
with a LiPo executive called

2227
01:10:27,570 --> 01:10:29,310
Antonio pan and Tony is not his

2228
01:10:29,310 --> 01:10:31,230
real first name. It's like the

2229
01:10:31,230 --> 01:10:32,880
first name that he chose. When

2230
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:34,950
he came to the US. I forget what

2231
01:10:34,950 --> 01:10:36,690
his actual first name is. But he

2232
01:10:36,690 --> 01:10:37,980
was the Executive Vice President

2233
01:10:37,980 --> 01:10:40,890
of the riadi families Lippo

2234
01:10:40,890 --> 01:10:42,540
group, their Chinese subsidiary

2235
01:10:42,540 --> 01:10:45,480
called the tatty group. So they

2236
01:10:45,480 --> 01:10:46,890
became pretty close and at some

2237
01:10:46,890 --> 01:10:48,720
point, the realities extended

2238
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:51,930
Tria, significant loan in 1985

2239
01:10:51,930 --> 01:10:54,030
that is reportedly for tree to,

2240
01:10:54,210 --> 01:10:56,460
quote, expand his restaurant

2241
01:10:56,490 --> 01:10:57,420
operation.

2242
01:10:58,050 --> 01:11:02,370
And that's like, $60,000 60,095

2243
01:11:02,370 --> 01:11:06,030
is a lot of money. No, I from

2244
01:11:06,030 --> 01:11:07,680
what I wasn't like that big, but

2245
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:09,660
like, you know that that's more

2246
01:11:09,660 --> 01:11:11,280
money, I think, then his

2247
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,440
restaurant would really require.

2248
01:11:13,710 --> 01:11:14,820
So I think it's pretty clear

2249
01:11:14,820 --> 01:11:16,080
that something else is going

2250
01:11:16,110 --> 01:11:17,730
going on there. Yeah,

2251
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:19,890
yeah. So you know, a couple

2252
01:11:19,890 --> 01:11:21,600
years later is around the time

2253
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:23,820
when trying to resources and the

2254
01:11:23,820 --> 01:11:24,840
reality family are coming

2255
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:27,210
together and BCCI Hong Kong is

2256
01:11:27,210 --> 01:11:29,220
collapsing, and all this stuff

2257
01:11:29,220 --> 01:11:31,140
is going on tree sells his

2258
01:11:31,140 --> 01:11:32,730
restaurant and he tries to

2259
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:34,350
create this import export

2260
01:11:34,350 --> 01:11:36,450
business, but specifically

2261
01:11:36,450 --> 01:11:38,040
focusing on US China trade

2262
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:39,630
called Daihatsu international

2263
01:11:39,630 --> 01:11:41,100
trading Corp. And the

2264
01:11:41,100 --> 01:11:43,050
Congressional investigation and

2265
01:11:43,050 --> 01:11:44,340
Senate investigation into this

2266
01:11:44,340 --> 01:11:45,600
basically found that Daihatsu

2267
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:46,680
didn't ever get any business

2268
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:48,090
ever. But it was of course

2269
01:11:48,090 --> 01:11:49,890
involved in donating to the DNC,

2270
01:11:49,890 --> 01:11:51,570
even though within the business.

2271
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:53,910
And during the same period, he

2272
01:11:53,910 --> 01:11:55,170
was making a lot of tree was

2273
01:11:55,170 --> 01:11:56,460
making a lot of trips to China,

2274
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:57,930
between China and the US

2275
01:11:57,930 --> 01:11:59,670
bringing Chinese businessmen and

2276
01:11:59,670 --> 01:12:02,040
officials to the United States

2277
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:03,510
specifically to Arkansas. And

2278
01:12:03,510 --> 01:12:04,950
this is all you know, even

2279
01:12:04,950 --> 01:12:06,270
before Clinton is in the White

2280
01:12:06,270 --> 01:12:07,440
House. And obviously once he's

2281
01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:08,640
in the White House, it picks up

2282
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:10,200
a lot. But a lot of trees

2283
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:11,400
activities in this period are

2284
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:12,810
intimately tied up with this guy

2285
01:12:12,810 --> 01:12:14,640
named Ian lapsing, who we

2286
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:16,710
mentioned earlier, who is from

2287
01:12:16,710 --> 01:12:18,630
Macau and has a very bizarre

2288
01:12:18,810 --> 01:12:20,640
rags to riches story that makes

2289
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:22,440
no sense. He's apparently born

2290
01:12:22,440 --> 01:12:24,750
into dire poverty. So poor, he

2291
01:12:24,750 --> 01:12:26,070
can't even feed himself. But he

2292
01:12:26,070 --> 01:12:28,260
also somehow manages to bribe

2293
01:12:28,260 --> 01:12:31,710
his way into Macau. So I don't

2294
01:12:31,710 --> 01:12:33,180
know how he did that with no

2295
01:12:33,210 --> 01:12:35,640
money. But he did. And then he

2296
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:37,080
becomes a wealthy businessman

2297
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:38,970
once in Macau, apparently, just

2298
01:12:38,970 --> 01:12:41,460
by selling fabric to people.

2299
01:12:42,210 --> 01:12:44,400
That makes sense. You know,

2300
01:12:44,610 --> 01:12:46,200
yeah, in like five years, he

2301
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:48,840
becomes like a multimillionaire

2302
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:50,850
by selling like fabric and he

2303
01:12:50,850 --> 01:12:52,110
comes in with no money. I mean,

2304
01:12:52,110 --> 01:12:53,100
none of it really makes any

2305
01:12:53,100 --> 01:12:54,570
sense to be honest. So, you

2306
01:12:54,570 --> 01:12:55,830
know, a lot of these stories

2307
01:12:56,910 --> 01:12:58,410
exist. There's a lot of them in

2308
01:12:58,410 --> 01:13:00,240
the book for very, you know, a

2309
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:02,940
lot of different people. In my

2310
01:13:02,940 --> 01:13:04,710
opinion, when there is a person

2311
01:13:04,710 --> 01:13:06,210
who has an improbable rags to

2312
01:13:06,210 --> 01:13:08,220
riches story, a lot of times

2313
01:13:08,220 --> 01:13:09,960
there's organized crime or other

2314
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:11,640
sort of unsavory alliances that

2315
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:13,740
are responsible for the rise to

2316
01:13:13,740 --> 01:13:15,780
riches and not necessarily the

2317
01:13:16,290 --> 01:13:19,050
hard work of the person that

2318
01:13:19,050 --> 01:13:20,970
we're talking about. So I think

2319
01:13:20,970 --> 01:13:22,140
that's pretty true for English

2320
01:13:22,140 --> 01:13:23,190
saying, yeah,

2321
01:13:23,190 --> 01:13:25,170
he like, there's a lot of

2322
01:13:25,170 --> 01:13:26,340
reports about like, allegedly

2323
01:13:26,340 --> 01:13:29,130
like ties to triad gangs. And so

2324
01:13:29,130 --> 01:13:30,660
that's definitely like your kind

2325
01:13:30,660 --> 01:13:33,360
of organized crime side. Lots of

2326
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:34,980
allegations that he was himself

2327
01:13:34,980 --> 01:13:36,570
like a Chinese intelligence

2328
01:13:36,630 --> 01:13:39,930
agent. He was absolutely, like,

2329
01:13:40,140 --> 01:13:42,450
close to like the leadership of

2330
01:13:42,450 --> 01:13:44,100
the Communist Party of China in

2331
01:13:44,100 --> 01:13:46,170
this time period. Yeah. And he

2332
01:13:46,170 --> 01:13:47,730
would kind of fall as the second

2333
01:13:47,730 --> 01:13:49,050
generation of what were called,

2334
01:13:49,050 --> 01:13:51,720
like, the red fat cats, which

2335
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:52,110
were like, are

2336
01:13:52,110 --> 01:13:53,760
the red princes or princelings?

2337
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:54,660
They have a lot of different

2338
01:13:54,660 --> 01:13:57,180
nicknames, depending on who was

2339
01:13:57,180 --> 01:13:58,350
talking about them. Yeah.

2340
01:13:58,650 --> 01:14:00,390
The red fat cats was the term

2341
01:14:00,390 --> 01:14:02,400
used in Macau proper, I think.

2342
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:04,500
Right. So to define that, for

2343
01:14:04,500 --> 01:14:05,400
people that don't know this,

2344
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:06,870
these are basically more often

2345
01:14:06,870 --> 01:14:08,490
than not like family members,

2346
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:10,050
like children of people that

2347
01:14:10,050 --> 01:14:11,580
were sort of like the founders,

2348
01:14:11,700 --> 01:14:13,380
or top leaders of China's

2349
01:14:13,380 --> 01:14:14,880
Communist Party. And so they get

2350
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:16,770
sort of these cushy jobs in the

2351
01:14:16,770 --> 01:14:18,420
state owned conglomerates or

2352
01:14:18,420 --> 01:14:20,610
businesses. And a lot of them

2353
01:14:20,670 --> 01:14:23,100
were not very communist in their

2354
01:14:23,100 --> 01:14:24,330
dealings. But one of the guys

2355
01:14:24,330 --> 01:14:25,500
that gets talked about a lot in

2356
01:14:25,500 --> 01:14:29,430
the chapter, chapter 17, of the

2357
01:14:29,430 --> 01:14:31,170
book was basically disowned by

2358
01:14:31,170 --> 01:14:32,400
his father who was a very

2359
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:33,570
prominent member of the

2360
01:14:33,570 --> 01:14:35,010
Communist Party for being too

2361
01:14:35,010 --> 01:14:36,510
capitalist and that guy was

2362
01:14:36,510 --> 01:14:38,550
like, hoarding a bunch of money

2363
01:14:38,550 --> 01:14:41,220
in offshore accounts and doing

2364
01:14:41,220 --> 01:14:42,540
you know, the same shady

2365
01:14:42,540 --> 01:14:44,040
business activities that a lot

2366
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:45,390
of the other people that we

2367
01:14:45,390 --> 01:14:46,290
talked about in the book are

2368
01:14:46,290 --> 01:14:47,970
doing, you know, so it's it's

2369
01:14:47,970 --> 01:14:51,270
just business as usual. For you

2370
01:14:51,270 --> 01:14:53,310
know, the red fat cats or

2371
01:14:53,310 --> 01:14:53,790
whatever.

2372
01:14:53,820 --> 01:14:55,740
Yeah. And I think that that also

2373
01:14:55,740 --> 01:14:57,660
helps kind of draw out why Macau

2374
01:14:57,660 --> 01:14:59,490
is so important, because because

2375
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:00,990
it was like simultaneously this

2376
01:15:00,990 --> 01:15:02,670
like completely unregulated

2377
01:15:02,670 --> 01:15:04,380
zone, but it was so close to

2378
01:15:04,380 --> 01:15:06,180
China is that Macau is where a

2379
01:15:06,180 --> 01:15:08,400
lot of these, you know, kind of

2380
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:10,050
elite figures in China were kind

2381
01:15:10,050 --> 01:15:11,520
of putting the money that they

2382
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:13,410
weren't necessarily supposed to

2383
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:15,090
be accumulating.

2384
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,220
So, so inlab saying once he's a

2385
01:15:17,220 --> 01:15:19,170
rich guy, he he's very involved

2386
01:15:19,170 --> 01:15:20,700
in real estate and he owns like

2387
01:15:20,700 --> 01:15:22,470
hotels and stuff that I think

2388
01:15:22,470 --> 01:15:24,420
also were like casino II stuff.

2389
01:15:24,690 --> 01:15:27,660
To an extent, the places that he

2390
01:15:27,660 --> 01:15:29,970
owns are allegedly, again,

2391
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:32,130
associated with triad gangsters.

2392
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,250
And he, you know, in this period

2393
01:15:35,250 --> 01:15:36,330
of time, he starts connecting

2394
01:15:36,330 --> 01:15:38,070
with tree, his first known

2395
01:15:38,070 --> 01:15:39,420
association with tree is this

2396
01:15:39,420 --> 01:15:40,950
effort to acquire a hotel in

2397
01:15:40,950 --> 01:15:43,710
Little Rock, Arkansas, that I

2398
01:15:43,710 --> 01:15:45,840
think actually involves St.

2399
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:49,470
Joseph gerar. Right. Yeah. Of

2400
01:15:49,470 --> 01:15:50,970
all people, you know, the riadi

2401
01:15:50,970 --> 01:15:53,010
guy again, so the realities are

2402
01:15:53,010 --> 01:15:54,210
in the mix, but in collapsing is

2403
01:15:54,210 --> 01:15:55,440
interesting, because he has this

2404
01:15:55,440 --> 01:15:57,090
direct tie to top Chinese

2405
01:15:57,090 --> 01:15:59,190
leadership. He's allegedly

2406
01:15:59,190 --> 01:16:00,870
affiliated with organized crime.

2407
01:16:01,290 --> 01:16:02,280
And that came up when he was

2408
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:03,600
trying to acquire this hotel,

2409
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:05,670
even that he had criminal ties

2410
01:16:05,670 --> 01:16:07,710
and Asia was what they said, but

2411
01:16:07,710 --> 01:16:08,760
one of these hotels was

2412
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:11,400
advertised as a massage table

2413
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:14,640
dance karaoke spot. Okay, so in

2414
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:16,020
Macau, that's basically

2415
01:16:17,460 --> 01:16:18,510
especially because of the

2416
01:16:18,510 --> 01:16:19,620
alleged organized crime

2417
01:16:19,620 --> 01:16:21,330
influence, it's most likely like

2418
01:16:21,330 --> 01:16:24,720
a low key brothel. Macau was

2419
01:16:24,750 --> 01:16:26,430
very well known, especially in

2420
01:16:26,430 --> 01:16:27,750
this period for having been a

2421
01:16:27,750 --> 01:16:30,000
hotbed for sex trafficking. And

2422
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:31,860
it was basically de facto legal,

2423
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:34,260
de facto illegal to have

2424
01:16:34,260 --> 01:16:36,000
brothels if it was disguised as

2425
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:37,590
a massage parlor. And that's

2426
01:16:37,590 --> 01:16:39,060
actually very common in parts of

2427
01:16:39,060 --> 01:16:41,460
Asia, even today. Actually,

2428
01:16:41,460 --> 01:16:42,330
suddenly, we're talking a little

2429
01:16:42,330 --> 01:16:44,280
bit before we recorded I

2430
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:45,210
mentioned that when I was in

2431
01:16:45,210 --> 01:16:48,180
college, I went to Malaysia for

2432
01:16:48,180 --> 01:16:50,280
a month with my my major advisor

2433
01:16:50,730 --> 01:16:53,130
to do some research on stuff

2434
01:16:53,130 --> 01:16:56,670
there. And we were gonna go to

2435
01:16:56,700 --> 01:16:58,290
we were like walking down the

2436
01:16:58,290 --> 01:17:00,000
street and we looked inside one

2437
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:01,500
of these like massage parlors,

2438
01:17:01,500 --> 01:17:02,820
quote, unquote, and it was like,

2439
01:17:02,970 --> 01:17:04,980
the women were like, all staring

2440
01:17:04,980 --> 01:17:05,970
out the window. They were all

2441
01:17:05,970 --> 01:17:07,800
wearing like matching pajamas

2442
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:09,510
with like, zip down, like, all

2443
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:10,710
the way down. I mean, it was

2444
01:17:10,710 --> 01:17:13,050
just very odd, you know. And

2445
01:17:13,050 --> 01:17:15,510
also karaoke. We went to a

2446
01:17:15,510 --> 01:17:16,980
karaoke bar, thinking it would

2447
01:17:16,980 --> 01:17:20,130
be like, fun, you know. And it

2448
01:17:20,130 --> 01:17:21,900
turns out that like, you can't

2449
01:17:21,900 --> 01:17:23,460
go up and sing karaoke if you

2450
01:17:23,460 --> 01:17:24,570
want. Like, we wanted to go goof

2451
01:17:24,570 --> 01:17:25,710
off and stuff, but you're not

2452
01:17:25,710 --> 01:17:27,930
even it's like these women come

2453
01:17:27,930 --> 01:17:29,700
up and they sing karaoke. And

2454
01:17:29,700 --> 01:17:30,990
then they're handed flowers with

2455
01:17:30,990 --> 01:17:33,540
a wad of cash inside. And then

2456
01:17:33,570 --> 01:17:35,550
whoever gave them the cash

2457
01:17:35,550 --> 01:17:37,230
follows them, like down this

2458
01:17:37,230 --> 01:17:39,150
hallway, and you don't see where

2459
01:17:39,150 --> 01:17:41,310
they go. Right. And so I don't

2460
01:17:41,310 --> 01:17:43,050
know how common that is, you

2461
01:17:43,050 --> 01:17:44,490
know, in Macau during this

2462
01:17:44,490 --> 01:17:46,800
period, but this was like on a

2463
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:50,130
sort of a place called Penang

2464
01:17:50,130 --> 01:17:51,510
and Malaysia, which is like, you

2465
01:17:51,510 --> 01:17:53,880
know, mostly ethnic Chinese. So

2466
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,250
maybe it is what they do in

2467
01:17:56,250 --> 01:17:57,630
Macau. Also, that's just my

2468
01:17:57,630 --> 01:17:58,710
personal experience. I've never

2469
01:17:58,710 --> 01:18:00,000
been to China so I don't know

2470
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,190
but I mean, you know, shady

2471
01:18:02,190 --> 01:18:04,140
hotel with organized crime ties

2472
01:18:04,140 --> 01:18:06,540
massage table dance karaoke spot

2473
01:18:06,570 --> 01:18:08,490
in a place that's known for lack

2474
01:18:08,490 --> 01:18:10,050
of regulation about all sorts of

2475
01:18:10,050 --> 01:18:11,100
things including sex

2476
01:18:11,100 --> 01:18:12,720
trafficking, it's a little

2477
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:13,440
alarming

2478
01:18:13,470 --> 01:18:15,450
now is this the same hotel that

2479
01:18:15,450 --> 01:18:17,610
Stanley Ho was involved with?

2480
01:18:17,850 --> 01:18:19,920
No, no, but this is this is a

2481
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,050
collapsing like flagship hotel

2482
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:24,090
Oh, another thing I forgot.

2483
01:18:24,810 --> 01:18:26,100
Their main pamphlet for this

2484
01:18:26,100 --> 01:18:28,050
hotel that he ran specifically

2485
01:18:28,050 --> 01:18:29,250
promoted attractive and

2486
01:18:29,250 --> 01:18:33,750
attentive hostesses from China

2487
01:18:33,750 --> 01:18:35,130
Korea, Singapore, Malaysia,

2488
01:18:35,130 --> 01:18:36,840
Vietnam, Indonesia and Burma

2489
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:39,150
together with erotic girls from

2490
01:18:39,150 --> 01:18:40,950
Europe and Russia. It makes it

2491
01:18:40,950 --> 01:18:42,930
they offer you an exciting and

2492
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:44,640
unforgettable evening with

2493
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:46,560
friends or business associates.

2494
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:50,760
So I mean not looking good. Not

2495
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:52,410
looking good in lapsing I think

2496
01:18:52,410 --> 01:18:57,360
we're onto you. So yeah, so

2497
01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:58,680
anyway, that's the guy that tree

2498
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:00,480
teamed up with those are his

2499
01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:01,560
connections I think it's a

2500
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:04,200
little bit irrelevant and so

2501
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:07,350
basically tree is basically to

2502
01:19:07,350 --> 01:19:08,370
summarize it because we don't

2503
01:19:08,370 --> 01:19:10,380
have that much time he he's

2504
01:19:10,380 --> 01:19:11,760
basically acting as a front for

2505
01:19:11,850 --> 01:19:12,900
collapsing and if you read the

2506
01:19:12,900 --> 01:19:14,460
congressional or Senate reports

2507
01:19:14,610 --> 01:19:15,720
it's very clear that's what

2508
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:17,220
happened tree basically found

2509
01:19:17,220 --> 01:19:18,180
all these different ways to

2510
01:19:18,180 --> 01:19:20,880
break up huge sums of money that

2511
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:23,280
in lapsing was wiring him. He

2512
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:24,390
tried to shuffle it through all

2513
01:19:24,390 --> 01:19:25,470
these different bank accounts

2514
01:19:25,470 --> 01:19:26,670
and then filter it to the DNC

2515
01:19:26,670 --> 01:19:27,420
through all these different

2516
01:19:27,420 --> 01:19:29,280
ways, but it's very obvious that

2517
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:30,660
it all came from in lapsing. So

2518
01:19:30,660 --> 01:19:32,100
he's basically acting as a front

2519
01:19:32,100 --> 01:19:34,350
for NG lapsing at the end of the

2520
01:19:34,350 --> 01:19:37,350
day. And a lot of you know,

2521
01:19:37,410 --> 01:19:38,880
where does Mark Middleton fit in

2522
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:40,440
here? Okay, so mark Middleton is

2523
01:19:40,440 --> 01:19:44,730
going to these parties that are

2524
01:19:44,730 --> 01:19:46,230
being hosted at this office of

2525
01:19:46,230 --> 01:19:48,210
the Watergate Complex that

2526
01:19:48,210 --> 01:19:51,450
England lapsing uses, but it's

2527
01:19:51,450 --> 01:19:54,120
apparently owned in the office

2528
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:55,740
of this Daihatsu company that

2529
01:19:55,740 --> 01:19:57,930
tree runs, but it's being used

2530
01:19:57,930 --> 01:19:59,970
by inlab Singh and his book

2531
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,940
keeper. And then Antonio Pon,

2532
01:20:02,940 --> 01:20:03,990
this former Lippo group

2533
01:20:03,990 --> 01:20:05,610
executive who was now claiming

2534
01:20:05,610 --> 01:20:07,590
to be CEO of the Daihatsu

2535
01:20:07,590 --> 01:20:08,700
company that never does any

2536
01:20:08,700 --> 01:20:10,470
business ever. And so Mark

2537
01:20:10,470 --> 01:20:11,790
Middleton and some of these guys

2538
01:20:11,790 --> 01:20:13,770
from also where else the

2539
01:20:13,770 --> 01:20:15,630
Commerce Department are going to

2540
01:20:15,630 --> 01:20:16,800
these weird parties at the

2541
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:19,140
Watergate apartment, not going

2542
01:20:19,140 --> 01:20:21,150
to speculate about what may have

2543
01:20:21,150 --> 01:20:22,710
happened there. But there are

2544
01:20:22,710 --> 01:20:24,870
some other things that are

2545
01:20:24,870 --> 01:20:26,250
noticing notable about him

2546
01:20:26,250 --> 01:20:28,050
collapsing. And I guess a lot of

2547
01:20:28,050 --> 01:20:29,640
these would be that when England

2548
01:20:29,700 --> 01:20:31,590
intellects lapsing makes his

2549
01:20:31,590 --> 01:20:33,270
visits to the US. And during

2550
01:20:33,270 --> 01:20:34,950
this period of time, they're

2551
01:20:34,950 --> 01:20:38,400
almost always it ain't aimed at

2552
01:20:38,430 --> 01:20:39,780
him going to the White House and

2553
01:20:39,780 --> 01:20:41,070
he goes to the White House, but

2554
01:20:41,070 --> 01:20:42,390
he'll come into the country with

2555
01:20:42,390 --> 01:20:45,180
like, a ton of cash on him. And

2556
01:20:45,180 --> 01:20:46,770
and you know, in a couple days,

2557
01:20:46,770 --> 01:20:48,660
he apparently spends it all and

2558
01:20:48,660 --> 01:20:50,550
it's, it seems to me the way

2559
01:20:50,670 --> 01:20:52,350
it's written in like it's laid

2560
01:20:52,350 --> 01:20:54,930
out in the documentation. He's

2561
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:56,340
He's basically like giving it to

2562
01:20:56,340 --> 01:20:57,660
mark Middleton, like he comes

2563
01:20:57,660 --> 01:20:59,850
into the US with a ton of cash.

2564
01:20:59,850 --> 01:21:01,020
And then he makes Mark Middleton

2565
01:21:01,020 --> 01:21:01,740
and then he leaves.

2566
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:04,770
And he's like Ron Brown a lot,

2567
01:21:04,770 --> 01:21:05,640
too, in this period.

2568
01:21:05,700 --> 01:21:07,170
Yeah. So it's either going to

2569
01:21:07,170 --> 01:21:10,050
Middleton or brown. They're both

2570
01:21:10,110 --> 01:21:12,990
equally corrupt. So it's

2571
01:21:12,990 --> 01:21:14,400
anyone's guess, at this point,

2572
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:15,660
and then tree gets appointed to

2573
01:21:15,660 --> 01:21:17,820
this fancy board of Finance

2574
01:21:17,820 --> 01:21:19,560
Board of Directors at the DNC,

2575
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:22,050
which includes people like Edgar

2576
01:21:22,050 --> 01:21:24,060
Bronfman, of course, sums up a

2577
01:21:24,060 --> 01:21:25,980
lot in the book. And as you

2578
01:21:25,980 --> 01:21:27,270
know, sort of affiliated with

2579
01:21:27,270 --> 01:21:28,650
the Lew Wasserman side of

2580
01:21:28,650 --> 01:21:31,650
things, to significant degrees,

2581
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:34,260
and then tree gets involved with

2582
01:21:35,130 --> 01:21:36,510
this is another rabbit hole, so

2583
01:21:36,510 --> 01:21:38,160
I'm not gonna get into it too

2584
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:39,840
much. But he basically being

2585
01:21:39,870 --> 01:21:41,520
brings China's premier arms

2586
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:43,050
dealer to meet with Clinton and

2587
01:21:43,050 --> 01:21:44,040
something that became really

2588
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:46,080
controversial. But what wasn't

2589
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:47,370
reported really, in the media

2590
01:21:47,370 --> 01:21:49,590
reports about it at the time, is

2591
01:21:49,590 --> 01:21:51,060
that this meeting that tree

2592
01:21:51,060 --> 01:21:52,890
setup for this arms dealer,

2593
01:21:53,310 --> 01:21:54,750
whose name is Wang Jun,

2594
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:57,720
basically scuttled what would

2595
01:21:57,720 --> 01:21:59,220
have what actually was even

2596
01:21:59,220 --> 01:22:01,440
though it was, you know, mess,

2597
01:22:01,500 --> 01:22:04,710
totally messed with the biggest

2598
01:22:04,710 --> 01:22:06,180
like ATF confiscation of

2599
01:22:06,180 --> 01:22:08,160
automatic weapons that were

2600
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:10,020
being smuggled in the US ever.

2601
01:22:11,100 --> 01:22:13,500
And, and basically, you know,

2602
01:22:13,500 --> 01:22:15,150
Wing Wing jeans, companies were

2603
01:22:15,150 --> 01:22:16,980
smuggling illegal Chinese

2604
01:22:16,980 --> 01:22:18,390
weapons into the United States,

2605
01:22:18,510 --> 01:22:19,590
because as part of that

2606
01:22:19,620 --> 01:22:21,210
aforementioned most favored,

2607
01:22:21,210 --> 01:22:23,160
traded, most favored nation

2608
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:26,040
trading status deal that was

2609
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:27,060
being lobbied for by the

2610
01:22:27,060 --> 01:22:28,170
realities. And all of this,

2611
01:22:28,170 --> 01:22:30,690
Clinton banned Chinese weapons

2612
01:22:30,690 --> 01:22:31,980
from being sold in the US, but

2613
01:22:31,980 --> 01:22:33,120
they were still smuggling them

2614
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:34,200
to a significant degree. And

2615
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:36,240
someone at the White House after

2616
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:37,710
this meeting with Wang Jun that

2617
01:22:37,710 --> 01:22:40,080
Charlie tree set up, basically

2618
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:42,090
tips everyone off, that's being

2619
01:22:42,090 --> 01:22:43,140
investigated, that's going to

2620
01:22:43,140 --> 01:22:44,460
happen and all the big people

2621
01:22:44,460 --> 01:22:45,930
they were after, including Wayne

2622
01:22:45,930 --> 01:22:48,810
June's operator of us, all as US

2623
01:22:48,810 --> 01:22:50,880
Operations managed to escape.

2624
01:22:51,510 --> 01:22:52,920
And so only like the little guys

2625
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:54,780
are, are nabbed for it. But it's

2626
01:22:54,780 --> 01:22:56,520
still, they still get like an

2627
01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:57,660
insane amount of automatic

2628
01:22:57,660 --> 01:22:58,770
weapons and these automatic

2629
01:22:58,770 --> 01:23:00,060
automatic weapons, we're going

2630
01:23:00,060 --> 01:23:01,560
to like, basically, were feeling

2631
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:03,780
gang violence, at the height of

2632
01:23:03,810 --> 01:23:05,040
all of that stuff going on in

2633
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:06,750
the 1990s, like the east versus

2634
01:23:06,750 --> 01:23:08,910
West, you know, gang battles,

2635
01:23:08,910 --> 01:23:10,290
and all of this stuff that, you

2636
01:23:10,290 --> 01:23:13,080
know, is urban, you know, a lot

2637
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:14,130
of people in the US, I think,

2638
01:23:14,130 --> 01:23:15,060
know about it at this point,

2639
01:23:15,060 --> 01:23:16,320
because it was such a big part

2640
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:17,640
of, you know, culture at the

2641
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:18,870
time, I was gonna say, like a

2642
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:20,430
kid, and I even knew about it.

2643
01:23:20,430 --> 01:23:20,760
So,

2644
01:23:21,119 --> 01:23:22,529
yeah, like, even like movies

2645
01:23:22,529 --> 01:23:23,669
from that time, like you'll, you

2646
01:23:23,669 --> 01:23:24,899
know, any representation, you'll

2647
01:23:24,899 --> 01:23:26,129
see, they'll have like Chinese

2648
01:23:26,129 --> 01:23:28,799
like automatic weapons, and the

2649
01:23:28,799 --> 01:23:30,299
scale of it was like really

2650
01:23:30,299 --> 01:23:31,829
large, because if you read a lot

2651
01:23:31,829 --> 01:23:32,999
of the, you know, the few

2652
01:23:32,999 --> 01:23:34,679
documents that exist, you know,

2653
01:23:34,679 --> 01:23:36,629
concerning that, they talked

2654
01:23:36,629 --> 01:23:39,389
about how China like, it was

2655
01:23:39,389 --> 01:23:41,249
still enough for them to like,

2656
01:23:41,279 --> 01:23:43,619
get significant revenue streams

2657
01:23:43,619 --> 01:23:45,149
off selling it to us street

2658
01:23:45,149 --> 01:23:47,669
gangs. Yes. So like, it wasn't

2659
01:23:47,669 --> 01:23:49,919
like little, you know, these

2660
01:23:49,919 --> 01:23:51,419
aren't like small time arms

2661
01:23:51,419 --> 01:23:52,859
deals, these are still kind of

2662
01:23:52,859 --> 01:23:54,719
like large weapons packages in a

2663
01:23:54,719 --> 01:23:57,839
lot of ways. So definitely,

2664
01:23:57,929 --> 01:23:59,279
definitely more defined in that

2665
01:23:59,279 --> 01:24:00,479
direction to I think,

2666
01:24:00,539 --> 01:24:02,159
Oh, totally. And you know, what,

2667
01:24:02,159 --> 01:24:03,179
I tried to get in touch with

2668
01:24:03,179 --> 01:24:05,759
this lawyer that we, that we

2669
01:24:05,759 --> 01:24:07,799
talked about a couple weeks ago,

2670
01:24:07,799 --> 01:24:08,969
and like he was going to talk to

2671
01:24:08,969 --> 01:24:10,109
me now he like, doesn't want to

2672
01:24:10,109 --> 01:24:11,249
talk to me about the China

2673
01:24:11,249 --> 01:24:12,689
stuff. Oh, really? What

2674
01:24:12,689 --> 01:24:14,279
happened? But Dan is really

2675
01:24:14,279 --> 01:24:15,539
hoping to find out the name of

2676
01:24:15,539 --> 01:24:17,039
these offshore companies, or

2677
01:24:17,039 --> 01:24:18,239
they were doing all this stuff,

2678
01:24:18,239 --> 01:24:19,529
but I guess I won't know.

2679
01:24:19,859 --> 01:24:21,359
Anyway, I was just

2680
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:22,560
wondering about that. That's

2681
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:23,490
disappointing. Well, maybe

2682
01:24:23,490 --> 01:24:29,700
you can try them. Maybe we'll

2683
01:24:29,700 --> 01:24:32,760
see what happens. So anyway, um,

2684
01:24:34,170 --> 01:24:36,030
so at, you know, after this

2685
01:24:36,030 --> 01:24:37,170
meeting with Wang gene, and all

2686
01:24:37,170 --> 01:24:37,950
of that, which is a very

2687
01:24:37,950 --> 01:24:38,850
separate thing, and I've

2688
01:24:38,850 --> 01:24:39,780
mentioned this in some other

2689
01:24:39,780 --> 01:24:41,100
interviews, because I think that

2690
01:24:41,100 --> 01:24:43,200
sort of is is what explains

2691
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:44,610
Epstein and Middleton's

2692
01:24:44,700 --> 01:24:46,650
relationship at the White House

2693
01:24:46,830 --> 01:24:48,000
is related to a lot of this

2694
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:49,890
Chinese weapons stuff because of

2695
01:24:51,030 --> 01:24:52,710
numerous things. I mean, it all

2696
01:24:52,710 --> 01:24:53,760
sort of clicks together

2697
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:54,780
different parts of the book in

2698
01:24:54,780 --> 01:24:56,850
that chapter. And that's way too

2699
01:24:56,850 --> 01:24:59,610
complex to get into for now. So

2700
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:00,570
you know, We're just trying to

2701
01:25:00,570 --> 01:25:02,190
focus on Mark Middleton and in

2702
01:25:02,190 --> 01:25:03,660
reality gate and whatever,

2703
01:25:03,660 --> 01:25:07,350
right. So, you know, after that

2704
01:25:07,350 --> 01:25:09,360
meeting tree is going to a big

2705
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:10,620
fundraiser that's supposed to be

2706
01:25:10,620 --> 01:25:12,150
the top African American

2707
01:25:12,150 --> 01:25:13,860
fundraiser in DC. It's basically

2708
01:25:13,860 --> 01:25:16,290
headed by Ron Brown, who is an

2709
01:25:16,290 --> 01:25:17,700
African American, I think at the

2710
01:25:17,700 --> 01:25:19,470
time was like the only person in

2711
01:25:19,470 --> 01:25:20,670
the cabinet that was African, or

2712
01:25:20,670 --> 01:25:22,710
at least one of them. I don't, I

2713
01:25:22,710 --> 01:25:26,490
can't remember exactly. But he

2714
01:25:26,490 --> 01:25:28,200
brings like, what was described

2715
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:31,140
as a boatload of, I guess,

2716
01:25:31,140 --> 01:25:32,610
Chinese, Chinese and Taiwanese

2717
01:25:32,610 --> 01:25:34,560
people with him. And basically,

2718
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:35,880
Clinton and Ron Brown are on

2719
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:38,370
video talking about like, that

2720
01:25:38,370 --> 01:25:40,350
they know that this is they call

2721
01:25:40,350 --> 01:25:42,030
them the tree team, like the

2722
01:25:42,030 --> 01:25:44,100
Charlie tree team. Yeah. And,

2723
01:25:44,130 --> 01:25:45,540
you know, they like know that

2724
01:25:45,540 --> 01:25:46,770
there's these non citizens

2725
01:25:46,770 --> 01:25:48,060
coming to all these fundraisers

2726
01:25:48,060 --> 01:25:49,260
and are obviously like, cool

2727
01:25:49,260 --> 01:25:52,680
with it. So, and again, that was

2728
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:54,180
like, the main focus of this

2729
01:25:54,180 --> 01:25:56,010
investigation was the legality

2730
01:25:56,010 --> 01:25:57,420
of the finance contributions,

2731
01:25:57,420 --> 01:25:58,680
but very little interest in

2732
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:03,000
looking into what those you

2733
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,520
know, what those finances were

2734
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:07,770
enabling. And Mark Middleton was

2735
01:26:07,770 --> 01:26:09,240
at the mean, at the center of

2736
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:10,620
all of these meetings,

2737
01:26:10,620 --> 01:26:12,840
ultimately. So the question

2738
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:14,040
becomes, you know, what did the

2739
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:16,260
realities want, basically,

2740
01:26:16,260 --> 01:26:17,910
because the two main guys here,

2741
01:26:19,050 --> 01:26:20,220
aside from Johnny Chung, who I

2742
01:26:20,220 --> 01:26:21,180
don't think we have time to get

2743
01:26:21,180 --> 01:26:23,250
to today, but they're basically

2744
01:26:23,250 --> 01:26:25,980
you know, have reality ties,

2745
01:26:26,010 --> 01:26:27,780
significant significant reality

2746
01:26:27,780 --> 01:26:29,070
ties, and are part of the same,

2747
01:26:29,310 --> 01:26:30,570
you know, network, you know,

2748
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:31,980
around involved with, like,

2749
01:26:31,980 --> 01:26:33,990
Macau banking, and like money

2750
01:26:33,990 --> 01:26:36,060
laundering, and BCCI, and all of

2751
01:26:36,060 --> 01:26:38,250
this stuff. So Middleton was in

2752
01:26:38,250 --> 01:26:40,590
the center of this insane swamp.

2753
01:26:40,590 --> 01:26:42,180
So it's really no coincidence

2754
01:26:42,180 --> 01:26:44,280
that you see George W. Bush, you

2755
01:26:44,280 --> 01:26:47,190
know, the the son of George Bush

2756
01:26:47,190 --> 01:26:49,020
senior's stepping in to cover

2757
01:26:49,020 --> 01:26:50,640
this up. And that's how you know

2758
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:52,560
that this is, there's a lot more

2759
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:54,300
to the scandal here, for sure.

2760
01:26:54,810 --> 01:26:56,850
You also, I totally forgot to

2761
01:26:56,850 --> 01:26:57,870
mention this one of Charlie

2762
01:26:57,870 --> 01:26:59,310
trees, top guy like

2763
01:26:59,310 --> 01:27:01,410
conspirators, alongside Mark

2764
01:27:01,410 --> 01:27:03,090
Middleton is a top banker at

2765
01:27:03,090 --> 01:27:04,920
Lehman Brothers, who's this guy

2766
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:06,570
named Ernie green. So you also

2767
01:27:06,570 --> 01:27:08,670
have Wall Street pretty directly

2768
01:27:08,670 --> 01:27:10,380
in the mix here. And there's

2769
01:27:10,380 --> 01:27:11,820
this weird stuff that they were

2770
01:27:11,850 --> 01:27:13,830
the train in Ernie green, we're

2771
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:15,660
obviously doing they claim to

2772
01:27:15,660 --> 01:27:18,090
like, come together in this. So

2773
01:27:18,090 --> 01:27:19,470
funny to me this joint venture

2774
01:27:19,470 --> 01:27:21,990
around self inflating novelty

2775
01:27:21,990 --> 01:27:24,990
balloons. So I'm upfront for

2776
01:27:24,990 --> 01:27:25,590
anything,

2777
01:27:25,949 --> 01:27:28,559
just find that, like, that's

2778
01:27:28,559 --> 01:27:29,699
like a thing that comes up like

2779
01:27:29,699 --> 01:27:30,749
time and time again, when you're

2780
01:27:30,749 --> 01:27:31,619
looking at this stuff, you'll

2781
01:27:31,619 --> 01:27:33,119
just come across like, yeah, a

2782
01:27:33,119 --> 01:27:34,979
self inflating novelty balloon.

2783
01:27:35,189 --> 01:27:36,419
You know, that's not like what

2784
01:27:36,419 --> 01:27:39,209
it's about. Like, you know,

2785
01:27:39,209 --> 01:27:40,199
like, I was looking at this

2786
01:27:40,199 --> 01:27:41,849
thing with like Adnan Khashoggi

2787
01:27:41,849 --> 01:27:44,549
last night in around 1986 He was

2788
01:27:44,549 --> 01:27:46,109
trying to sell shares to what he

2789
01:27:46,109 --> 01:27:48,689
claimed was King Solomon's mind

2790
01:27:48,689 --> 01:27:50,189
he said that he had found it to

2791
01:27:50,189 --> 01:27:52,229
see you know, these people love

2792
01:27:52,229 --> 01:27:53,699
to just like do weird shit you

2793
01:27:53,699 --> 01:27:54,719
know? Yeah,

2794
01:27:54,750 --> 01:27:56,010
they like love to have silly

2795
01:27:56,010 --> 01:27:57,420
Griffes that like are amusing to

2796
01:27:57,420 --> 01:28:00,900
them you know? I don't know I

2797
01:28:00,930 --> 01:28:02,580
that's what I assume it is. So

2798
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:05,700
anyway, um, so Middleton in

2799
01:28:05,700 --> 01:28:07,410
green are working with tree

2800
01:28:07,410 --> 01:28:08,670
really extensively at the same

2801
01:28:08,670 --> 01:28:09,930
time, Middleton's also working

2802
01:28:09,930 --> 01:28:11,460
extensively with Johnny Huang

2803
01:28:11,460 --> 01:28:12,630
and all of this weird stuff,

2804
01:28:12,630 --> 01:28:14,970
right? And they green and

2805
01:28:14,970 --> 01:28:16,080
Middleton both tried to get

2806
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:17,520
involved in this real estate

2807
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:19,320
project that tree and in in

2808
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:22,110
lapsing, we're really trying to

2809
01:28:22,110 --> 01:28:23,310
promote during this period of

2810
01:28:23,310 --> 01:28:25,020
time, and it was caught on by

2811
01:28:25,050 --> 01:28:26,700
being lapsing with the whole

2812
01:28:26,700 --> 01:28:28,170
brothers of Macau. And that's

2813
01:28:28,170 --> 01:28:29,760
the aforementioned the brought

2814
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:31,770
up a second ago, Stanley Hall,

2815
01:28:32,550 --> 01:28:34,380
being one of those brothers and

2816
01:28:34,710 --> 01:28:36,720
I mean, it's documented the ties

2817
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:38,130
of the whole family to organized

2818
01:28:38,130 --> 01:28:39,690
crime in China that is, or

2819
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:40,440
Macau,

2820
01:28:40,470 --> 01:28:41,850
it's very much like eating

2821
01:28:41,850 --> 01:28:43,080
himself where, you know, on the

2822
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:44,400
one hand, they have these like,

2823
01:28:44,550 --> 01:28:46,920
yeah, ties to triads organized

2824
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:48,750
crime, very extensive, well

2825
01:28:48,750 --> 01:28:50,280
documented deep, but on the

2826
01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:51,720
other hand, it was like, you

2827
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:52,950
know, he was served on like, the

2828
01:28:52,950 --> 01:28:54,810
China's like committee of the,

2829
01:28:54,870 --> 01:28:57,000
you know, the top advisory

2830
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:58,950
council to the Communist Party.

2831
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:00,750
So he's another one of these

2832
01:29:00,750 --> 01:29:03,810
like, red Fat Cat types. And one

2833
01:29:03,810 --> 01:29:04,650
thing that's like, really

2834
01:29:04,680 --> 01:29:06,240
interesting, I thought is, you

2835
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:07,920
know, back at the beginning, we

2836
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:09,690
talked about this Macau bank

2837
01:29:09,690 --> 01:29:11,640
that Jackson Stevens, and the

2838
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:13,800
reality spot that saying hang

2839
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:17,490
bank, yeah, 1986 or 87. They

2840
01:29:17,490 --> 01:29:19,890
sold it to Stanley Ho. So like,

2841
01:29:20,070 --> 01:29:21,690
they have relations to him going

2842
01:29:21,690 --> 01:29:24,660
back to the 1980s predating all

2843
01:29:24,660 --> 01:29:27,240
of this stuff. And so it's

2844
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:28,470
indicative of like a pretty

2845
01:29:28,470 --> 01:29:29,790
consistent totally,

2846
01:29:30,150 --> 01:29:32,760
and Stanley Hall was like so

2847
01:29:32,850 --> 01:29:34,110
obviously tied to organized

2848
01:29:34,110 --> 01:29:34,980
crime. They don't even let him

2849
01:29:34,980 --> 01:29:36,810
set up casinos or his children

2850
01:29:36,810 --> 01:29:38,910
set up casinos in the US. Yeah,

2851
01:29:38,910 --> 01:29:40,260
it'd be business partners and

2852
01:29:40,260 --> 01:29:42,750
casinos in the US like they

2853
01:29:42,750 --> 01:29:44,370
don't want their money so bad

2854
01:29:44,370 --> 01:29:45,600
because they know how dirty they

2855
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:46,890
are that it will be very bad

2856
01:29:46,890 --> 01:29:47,730
press for them. Like

2857
01:29:47,730 --> 01:29:48,810
immediately.

2858
01:29:49,650 --> 01:29:51,210
He's descends from the family

2859
01:29:51,210 --> 01:29:52,500
like there was tied up with

2860
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:54,810
Jardine Matheson, which was like

2861
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:56,700
yeah, company that Dima

2862
01:29:56,700 --> 01:29:58,980
explained. Yeah, but Jardine.

2863
01:29:58,980 --> 01:30:00,420
Matheson was like a A British

2864
01:30:00,420 --> 01:30:02,190
trading company that for a

2865
01:30:02,190 --> 01:30:03,780
while, kind of competed with the

2866
01:30:03,780 --> 01:30:05,610
East India Company, but then

2867
01:30:05,610 --> 01:30:06,960
over time, it all kind of

2868
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:09,210
started to integrate. And so in

2869
01:30:09,210 --> 01:30:11,490
the face thing, yeah, it was

2870
01:30:11,490 --> 01:30:12,300
controlled by what's called the

2871
01:30:12,300 --> 01:30:14,820
Keswick family. And you know,

2872
01:30:14,820 --> 01:30:15,540
when we talk about like the

2873
01:30:15,570 --> 01:30:17,220
Opium Wars, or just like the

2874
01:30:17,220 --> 01:30:19,830
general opium trade in Asia,

2875
01:30:19,860 --> 01:30:21,900
like the castle wicks through

2876
01:30:21,900 --> 01:30:23,640
Jardine Matheson really were

2877
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:26,040
like the controlling body for

2878
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:27,540
this, and actually ends up being

2879
01:30:27,540 --> 01:30:28,680
like, quite important during

2880
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:31,950
World War Two. The Keswick were

2881
01:30:32,220 --> 01:30:33,540
key parts of it was called the

2882
01:30:33,540 --> 01:30:35,850
Special Operations executive.

2883
01:30:35,880 --> 01:30:37,020
This was like British

2884
01:30:37,020 --> 01:30:38,460
intelligence in World War Two.

2885
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:40,770
And they provided a lot of the

2886
01:30:40,770 --> 01:30:42,660
documents that would like to

2887
01:30:42,690 --> 01:30:44,130
William Donovan, it'd be

2888
01:30:44,130 --> 01:30:46,470
necessary to set up the OSS. So

2889
01:30:46,470 --> 01:30:47,910
Jardine, Matheson actually has

2890
01:30:47,910 --> 01:30:49,740
like a really fundamental

2891
01:30:49,740 --> 01:30:51,510
connection to the basis of

2892
01:30:51,510 --> 01:30:53,610
American intelligence itself.

2893
01:30:53,790 --> 01:30:56,250
And so like, the whole family

2894
01:30:56,400 --> 01:30:58,890
descends from like, people who

2895
01:30:58,890 --> 01:31:01,170
were like, high executives, and

2896
01:31:01,170 --> 01:31:03,060
this is just like a long family

2897
01:31:03,060 --> 01:31:04,950
history of shady ties and

2898
01:31:04,950 --> 01:31:06,750
Underworld ties, you know, kind

2899
01:31:06,750 --> 01:31:08,640
of coexisting together. Yeah.

2900
01:31:08,670 --> 01:31:10,350
So, you know, basically to sum

2901
01:31:10,350 --> 01:31:12,570
up, I mean, this is the network

2902
01:31:12,570 --> 01:31:13,860
that's around Mark Middleton at

2903
01:31:13,860 --> 01:31:15,030
the time the scandals going on

2904
01:31:15,030 --> 01:31:15,840
and when he's meeting with

2905
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:18,690
Epstein, right, so I think it's

2906
01:31:18,690 --> 01:31:19,800
really one thing that really

2907
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:21,780
surprised me when I finally it

2908
01:31:21,780 --> 01:31:23,280
finally got into the, you know,

2909
01:31:23,310 --> 01:31:24,840
the work of researching this

2910
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:25,650
book that was, you know,

2911
01:31:25,650 --> 01:31:27,390
supposed to be just mainly about

2912
01:31:27,390 --> 01:31:29,760
Epstein, is that Epstein has a

2913
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:32,670
lot of ties to the east that

2914
01:31:32,670 --> 01:31:34,830
don't get reported on really, at

2915
01:31:34,830 --> 01:31:36,870
all, specifically, like Chinese

2916
01:31:36,870 --> 01:31:38,640
weapons manufacturers and stuff.

2917
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:41,040
And I think that was really, you

2918
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:42,090
know, one of the missing pieces

2919
01:31:42,090 --> 01:31:43,530
in the puzzle when discussing

2920
01:31:43,770 --> 01:31:46,080
his involvement in, you know, on

2921
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:47,610
behalf of Leslie Wexner, getting

2922
01:31:47,610 --> 01:31:49,530
Southern Air Transport the Iran

2923
01:31:49,530 --> 01:31:52,380
Contra airline of infamy

2924
01:31:52,410 --> 01:31:55,380
relocated to go, instead of, you

2925
01:31:55,380 --> 01:31:56,640
know, focusing on flights

2926
01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:58,350
between Latin America in the US

2927
01:31:58,350 --> 01:31:59,130
because, you know, they were

2928
01:31:59,130 --> 01:32:00,900
drug smuggling in the Iran

2929
01:32:00,900 --> 01:32:04,350
Contra era. It's relocated from

2930
01:32:04,380 --> 01:32:05,940
going from Columbus, Ohio, to

2931
01:32:05,940 --> 01:32:08,790
Hong Kong and back. What were

2932
01:32:08,790 --> 01:32:10,500
they smuggling? Why is he

2933
01:32:10,500 --> 01:32:11,940
meeting with Mark Middleton?

2934
01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:14,610
That is? Well, we think we

2935
01:32:14,610 --> 01:32:15,690
figured it out. But there's

2936
01:32:15,690 --> 01:32:18,780
obviously a lot more to come out

2937
01:32:18,780 --> 01:32:19,920
about it. And it's worth

2938
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:20,820
mentioning to you that, you

2939
01:32:20,820 --> 01:32:22,530
know, while this is treated as

2940
01:32:22,530 --> 01:32:23,640
China Gate, and there was such a

2941
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:25,890
big focus on East Asia stuff,

2942
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:28,830
it's also very important to

2943
01:32:28,830 --> 01:32:31,020
point out that there was also a

2944
01:32:31,020 --> 01:32:32,520
lot of other people involved

2945
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:33,660
with I guess what I would call

2946
01:32:33,690 --> 01:32:36,180
the Robert Maxwell mafia.

2947
01:32:36,180 --> 01:32:38,700
Perhaps you have people like

2948
01:32:38,820 --> 01:32:40,890
Gregory Lucha Lansky, who's like

2949
01:32:40,890 --> 01:32:42,630
linked to organized crime Mark

2950
01:32:42,630 --> 01:32:44,400
rich, and also the Maxwell

2951
01:32:44,400 --> 01:32:47,010
symbol as the sons Ian and Kevin

2952
01:32:47,010 --> 01:32:48,840
ended up working for him. He's

2953
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:50,250
being courted by a guy who's

2954
01:32:50,250 --> 01:32:51,630
very tied up with the sort of

2955
01:32:51,630 --> 01:32:53,430
whole mega group group and

2956
01:32:53,430 --> 01:32:55,110
people like Steven Spielberg,

2957
01:32:55,230 --> 01:32:57,060
he's trying, you know, Sam, Dom,

2958
01:32:57,090 --> 01:32:59,100
Sam Thompson. Yeah, who knew

2959
01:32:59,100 --> 01:33:00,780
Maxwell personally, right. And

2960
01:33:00,780 --> 01:33:01,410
he's basically

2961
01:33:01,410 --> 01:33:02,490
trying to take these organized

2962
01:33:02,490 --> 01:33:04,710
crime people like, no into the

2963
01:33:04,710 --> 01:33:06,420
DNC network as well, at the same

2964
01:33:06,420 --> 01:33:07,740
time. So you're having sort of

2965
01:33:07,740 --> 01:33:10,470
these Chinese military connected

2966
01:33:10,470 --> 01:33:13,140
organized crime guys in China

2967
01:33:13,140 --> 01:33:15,780
and Macau, and whatever. In the

2968
01:33:15,780 --> 01:33:18,180
BCCI crowd, the realities

2969
01:33:18,450 --> 01:33:21,570
getting into the DNC, in really

2970
01:33:21,570 --> 01:33:23,700
shady ways and buying influence

2971
01:33:23,700 --> 01:33:25,380
and obviously targeting, you

2972
01:33:25,380 --> 01:33:26,220
know, more than anything else,

2973
01:33:26,220 --> 01:33:27,570
the Commerce Department, and at

2974
01:33:27,570 --> 01:33:29,460
the same time, you have the

2975
01:33:29,460 --> 01:33:30,870
people in the in the Robert

2976
01:33:30,870 --> 01:33:32,880
Maxwell network, Epstein being

2977
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:34,980
one of them, just one of them, I

2978
01:33:34,980 --> 01:33:36,450
should point out, that are that

2979
01:33:36,450 --> 01:33:37,770
are also involved with the same

2980
01:33:37,770 --> 01:33:39,000
stuff at the end of the day. So

2981
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:41,100
there's like, a huge scandal

2982
01:33:41,100 --> 01:33:42,690
here. And you know, I think in

2983
01:33:42,690 --> 01:33:43,830
the book, we only really ended

2984
01:33:43,830 --> 01:33:45,300
up like scratching the surface

2985
01:33:45,300 --> 01:33:47,280
of it. There's a lot more and

2986
01:33:47,310 --> 01:33:48,270
you know, at some point, I'd

2987
01:33:48,270 --> 01:33:50,850
really like to find out what the

2988
01:33:50,850 --> 01:33:52,020
heck was going on, because it's

2989
01:33:52,020 --> 01:33:53,760
nuts. And I guess the part we

2990
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:55,950
should end here, as you know,

2991
01:33:55,980 --> 01:33:58,230
what ended up happening to Mr.

2992
01:33:58,230 --> 01:34:01,530
Ron Brown, because Ron Brown was

2993
01:34:01,530 --> 01:34:03,150
the target of most of this

2994
01:34:03,690 --> 01:34:05,670
influence operation, these

2995
01:34:05,670 --> 01:34:08,670
influence operations that came

2996
01:34:08,670 --> 01:34:11,220
up in the scandal in which Mark

2997
01:34:11,220 --> 01:34:13,080
Middleton himself was embroiled

2998
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:17,220
in he met a very grisly end in

2999
01:34:17,220 --> 01:34:19,980
April 1996, and I've talked

3000
01:34:19,980 --> 01:34:20,970
about this in some previous

3001
01:34:20,970 --> 01:34:22,290
interviews as well, but he was

3002
01:34:22,290 --> 01:34:25,170
on he was going to cooperate as

3003
01:34:25,170 --> 01:34:27,420
part of an investigation that

3004
01:34:27,420 --> 01:34:29,700
was threatened to unravel a lot

3005
01:34:29,700 --> 01:34:31,740
of more than what we've covered

3006
01:34:31,740 --> 01:34:33,060
today, but about the same

3007
01:34:33,060 --> 01:34:34,500
network specifically and then

3008
01:34:34,500 --> 01:34:37,320
was unexpectedly asked to host a

3009
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:39,480
trade mission to Croatia in

3010
01:34:39,480 --> 01:34:42,090
route to their, the plane, he is

3011
01:34:42,090 --> 01:34:44,370
on crashes. And the crowd the

3012
01:34:44,370 --> 01:34:45,390
cause of the crash was

3013
01:34:45,390 --> 01:34:48,060
attributed to failure of command

3014
01:34:48,060 --> 01:34:49,860
and an improperly designed

3015
01:34:50,850 --> 01:34:52,830
instrument, approach procedure,

3016
01:34:52,860 --> 01:34:54,210
whatever that means. And they

3017
01:34:54,210 --> 01:34:56,880
blame that on a 1930s era

3018
01:34:56,880 --> 01:34:58,380
navigational system, but then a

3019
01:34:58,380 --> 01:34:59,970
couple of days later, the head

3020
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,190
navigation at the airport, where

3021
01:35:02,190 --> 01:35:03,360
they were supposed to land was

3022
01:35:03,360 --> 01:35:05,340
found dead shot in the chest.

3023
01:35:05,340 --> 01:35:07,320
And he was that was ruled a

3024
01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:10,500
suicide. You know, totally

3025
01:35:10,500 --> 01:35:13,050
normal. And even Clinton himself

3026
01:35:13,170 --> 01:35:14,790
talking about the tragedy was

3027
01:35:14,790 --> 01:35:17,040
like, Oh, this was a peculiar

3028
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:19,230
peculiar mix of circumstances,

3029
01:35:19,230 --> 01:35:21,090
if only one or two things had

3030
01:35:21,090 --> 01:35:22,440
happened differently, the crash

3031
01:35:22,440 --> 01:35:23,880
might not have happened at all,

3032
01:35:24,030 --> 01:35:25,440
you know, one or two things

3033
01:35:25,440 --> 01:35:26,760
happening differently, maybe

3034
01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:28,260
having been Ron Brown not

3035
01:35:28,260 --> 01:35:29,790
agreeing to cooperate with

3036
01:35:29,790 --> 01:35:31,830
investigators. That's just my

3037
01:35:32,130 --> 01:35:34,770
opinion, though. So anyway,

3038
01:35:34,890 --> 01:35:36,240
what's crazy about this is that

3039
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:37,110
a lot of people do you know

3040
01:35:37,110 --> 01:35:40,410
that, like Ron Brown, his body

3041
01:35:40,410 --> 01:35:41,460
when it was discovered, it was

3042
01:35:41,460 --> 01:35:43,800
very suspect. But there were 34

3043
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:45,270
people who died on that plane.

3044
01:35:45,330 --> 01:35:46,980
Yep. And a lot of them were

3045
01:35:46,980 --> 01:35:48,150
people that worked alongside

3046
01:35:48,150 --> 01:35:49,740
John Juan at the ITA, I think

3047
01:35:49,740 --> 01:35:52,590
almost his direct boss, yeah,

3048
01:35:52,590 --> 01:35:54,570
his boss at the ITA was there.

3049
01:35:54,660 --> 01:35:56,670
And a lot of other people, most

3050
01:35:56,670 --> 01:35:57,660
of the other people on the plane

3051
01:35:57,660 --> 01:35:59,370
were also specifically part of

3052
01:35:59,370 --> 01:36:01,500
the ITA that Johnny Huang was,

3053
01:36:01,530 --> 01:36:03,630
was at. And to me, that's really

3054
01:36:03,630 --> 01:36:04,830
telling because it's not just

3055
01:36:04,830 --> 01:36:06,660
about Ron Brown. That to me,

3056
01:36:06,660 --> 01:36:09,090
says Johnny Huang, at the ITA

3057
01:36:09,090 --> 01:36:10,260
was engaged in a lot of stuff.

3058
01:36:10,260 --> 01:36:11,910
And I think that Arkansas system

3059
01:36:11,910 --> 01:36:13,680
stuff with China's central bank,

3060
01:36:13,980 --> 01:36:15,360
you know, might be part of it,

3061
01:36:15,390 --> 01:36:16,440
because of all these weird

3062
01:36:16,440 --> 01:36:18,060
security clearances and all this

3063
01:36:18,060 --> 01:36:19,020
stuff. And that's why it's so

3064
01:36:19,020 --> 01:36:20,820
mind boggling to me that the

3065
01:36:20,820 --> 01:36:22,170
congressional investigations

3066
01:36:22,170 --> 01:36:23,400
into this, they don't really

3067
01:36:23,400 --> 01:36:24,960
bring up the Ron Brown crash at

3068
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:27,270
all. It's like a separate thing.

3069
01:36:27,450 --> 01:36:29,820
In the fact the coincidental

3070
01:36:29,820 --> 01:36:30,900
fact that all these people at

3071
01:36:30,900 --> 01:36:33,780
the ITA get killed when Johnny

3072
01:36:33,780 --> 01:36:35,730
Huang is doing this weird stuff

3073
01:36:35,730 --> 01:36:36,720
with Steven zinc and the

3074
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:38,010
security clearances and

3075
01:36:38,010 --> 01:36:40,320
whatever, at the ITA. And like

3076
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:41,160
we mentioned earlier, they

3077
01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:42,240
weren't really interested in

3078
01:36:42,240 --> 01:36:44,220
looking into that at all. And

3079
01:36:44,220 --> 01:36:45,060
all these people just

3080
01:36:45,060 --> 01:36:46,620
conveniently end up dead. The

3081
01:36:46,620 --> 01:36:47,910
second that Ron Brown's like,

3082
01:36:47,910 --> 01:36:49,950
you know, okay, I'll cooperate.

3083
01:36:50,220 --> 01:36:52,380
And so you know, basically, he

3084
01:36:52,380 --> 01:36:54,270
had this bullet wound in his

3085
01:36:54,270 --> 01:36:56,070
head, and we point out in the

3086
01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:57,150
book, the details for that,

3087
01:36:57,150 --> 01:36:57,510
yeah.

3088
01:36:58,470 --> 01:37:01,530
It was a 45 is described on the

3089
01:37:01,530 --> 01:37:04,230
Army Medical Examiner as a 45

3090
01:37:04,230 --> 01:37:06,180
and readily beveling circular

3091
01:37:06,180 --> 01:37:08,070
hole in the top of his head,

3092
01:37:08,070 --> 01:37:09,540
which is essentially the

3093
01:37:09,540 --> 01:37:11,760
description of a 45 caliber

3094
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:13,860
gunshot wound. And inwardly

3095
01:37:13,860 --> 01:37:15,570
beveling. That means, like, the

3096
01:37:15,570 --> 01:37:17,280
inside of the wound is bigger

3097
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:18,510
than the outside, which is why

3098
01:37:18,510 --> 01:37:19,980
it's consistent with, you know,

3099
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:21,360
kind of the way that a bullet

3100
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:23,130
kind of goes,

3101
01:37:23,490 --> 01:37:25,500
yeah, it was pretty much widely

3102
01:37:25,500 --> 01:37:26,820
recognized that it wasn't caused

3103
01:37:26,820 --> 01:37:27,960
by the crash. And I think at the

3104
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:29,640
time, you had like Maxine Waters

3105
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:31,200
in Congress asking for, like,

3106
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:32,370
more information about

3107
01:37:32,370 --> 01:37:33,810
anomalies, and Ron Brown's

3108
01:37:33,810 --> 01:37:35,340
autopsy and all this stuff,

3109
01:37:35,580 --> 01:37:37,290
which they obviously didn't want

3110
01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:40,050
to deal with. So there was no

3111
01:37:40,050 --> 01:37:41,970
subsequent autopsy, it was

3112
01:37:41,970 --> 01:37:44,160
pretty much, you know, yeah,

3113
01:37:44,190 --> 01:37:45,750
that's significant, because one

3114
01:37:45,750 --> 01:37:46,890
of the medical examiner's

3115
01:37:46,890 --> 01:37:48,210
disagree that it was a bullet

3116
01:37:48,210 --> 01:37:50,100
hole, strictly based on the fact

3117
01:37:50,100 --> 01:37:51,750
that there was no exit wound.

3118
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:52,770
But that's like, you know,

3119
01:37:52,770 --> 01:37:54,750
that's not uncommon to not have

3120
01:37:54,750 --> 01:37:57,000
an exit wound and autopsy would

3121
01:37:57,000 --> 01:37:58,500
show like, you know, recover

3122
01:37:58,500 --> 01:38:00,000
that bullet. But there were

3123
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:02,280
like, no autopsies done. And I

3124
01:38:02,280 --> 01:38:03,870
believe that he was cremated,

3125
01:38:03,870 --> 01:38:06,000
like very quickly, before the

3126
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:08,010
family themselves were notified.

3127
01:38:08,790 --> 01:38:12,450
Yeah, so. And you found this

3128
01:38:12,450 --> 01:38:14,040
actually, and I just found it so

3129
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:15,390
nuts that not only did you have

3130
01:38:15,420 --> 01:38:17,640
those people die, but not that a

3131
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:18,960
couple months later, you had

3132
01:38:18,960 --> 01:38:20,130
another person at the Commerce

3133
01:38:20,130 --> 01:38:22,200
Department die super

3134
01:38:22,230 --> 01:38:24,450
suspiciously in just found dead

3135
01:38:24,450 --> 01:38:26,460
in her office. Yeah, Barbara was

3136
01:38:26,460 --> 01:38:29,100
working at ICA also. Yeah,

3137
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:31,290
yeah, it was weird, because at

3138
01:38:31,290 --> 01:38:33,120
first they were treating it as a

3139
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:34,860
homicide. Because like our body

3140
01:38:34,860 --> 01:38:36,780
apparently had bruises. Yeah,

3141
01:38:36,780 --> 01:38:38,130
give us conflicting reports on

3142
01:38:38,130 --> 01:38:39,750
whether or not she was clothed.

3143
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:41,370
But then like, by the end of the

3144
01:38:41,370 --> 01:38:42,720
day, they were like, oh, no,

3145
01:38:42,750 --> 01:38:44,160
this was natural cause

3146
01:38:44,190 --> 01:38:46,170
natural causes. She's bruises on

3147
01:38:46,170 --> 01:38:48,420
her body. And I don't know, it's

3148
01:38:48,420 --> 01:38:50,550
just yeah, okay. natural causes

3149
01:38:50,580 --> 01:38:52,080
just totally mental health. They

3150
01:38:52,290 --> 01:38:53,280
have to deal with this stuff,

3151
01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:54,900
too. And earlier in the book,

3152
01:38:55,410 --> 01:38:57,630
before we get, you know, all

3153
01:38:57,630 --> 01:38:58,500
this stuff that we talked about

3154
01:38:58,500 --> 01:38:59,370
the day comes up, we talked

3155
01:38:59,370 --> 01:39:01,350
about Vince Foster, and like

3156
01:39:01,350 --> 01:39:02,910
that whole autopsy thing is to

3157
01:39:02,910 --> 01:39:04,500
like totally nuts, too. So,

3158
01:39:04,830 --> 01:39:07,260
anyway. So I mentioned earlier,

3159
01:39:07,260 --> 01:39:08,730
Brown was going to be a material

3160
01:39:08,730 --> 01:39:09,870
witness and was going to

3161
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:12,120
testify. Yeah, this was actually

3162
01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:14,070
a suit filed by Judicial Watch.

3163
01:39:14,550 --> 01:39:17,850
Tom Fitton, right. Yeah. But

3164
01:39:17,850 --> 01:39:21,240
anyway, the whole thing he was

3165
01:39:21,270 --> 01:39:23,580
supposed to testify about, was

3166
01:39:23,580 --> 01:39:25,950
it exactly about the campaign

3167
01:39:25,950 --> 01:39:27,480
finance stuff, but it would have

3168
01:39:27,480 --> 01:39:29,640
led to that same network, right.

3169
01:39:29,640 --> 01:39:30,270
Yeah.

3170
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:32,490
It's it's incredibly clear that

3171
01:39:32,490 --> 01:39:34,350
that's exactly like the because

3172
01:39:34,350 --> 01:39:36,450
this the Judicial Watch suit,

3173
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:38,040
ended up launching kind of like

3174
01:39:38,040 --> 01:39:40,530
a congressional probe that would

3175
01:39:40,530 --> 01:39:42,180
have converged directly into the

3176
01:39:42,180 --> 01:39:44,700
96 campaign controversy, and

3177
01:39:44,700 --> 01:39:46,260
possibly revealed like larger

3178
01:39:46,260 --> 01:39:47,940
networks that play in this

3179
01:39:47,970 --> 01:39:48,870
yes, if you want to get into

3180
01:39:48,870 --> 01:39:50,430
that a little bit, the dynamic

3181
01:39:50,490 --> 01:39:52,290
it was a company called dynamic

3182
01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:54,510
energy and the stuff there's

3183
01:39:54,510 --> 01:39:58,410
pretty crazy. So yeah,

3184
01:39:59,160 --> 01:40:01,950
dynamic energy. She was owned by

3185
01:40:02,010 --> 01:40:04,410
this couple named Nora and

3186
01:40:04,410 --> 01:40:06,630
Eugene Lum. And there were these

3187
01:40:06,630 --> 01:40:08,280
kinds of shady real estate

3188
01:40:08,280 --> 01:40:10,290
developers from Hawaii that had

3189
01:40:10,290 --> 01:40:11,670
become involved in, you know,

3190
01:40:11,670 --> 01:40:13,920
this, the DNC Asian American

3191
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,080
fundraising activities, like

3192
01:40:16,110 --> 01:40:17,460
they started back in like the

3193
01:40:17,490 --> 01:40:20,130
1980s. And they had met Ron

3194
01:40:20,130 --> 01:40:21,540
Brown when he was the DNC

3195
01:40:21,540 --> 01:40:22,890
chairman. So that's kind of

3196
01:40:23,160 --> 01:40:24,780
where their association like

3197
01:40:24,780 --> 01:40:26,820
went to. And they set up this

3198
01:40:26,820 --> 01:40:28,710
thing that was called the Asian

3199
01:40:28,710 --> 01:40:31,020
Pacific Advisory Council, or

3200
01:40:31,050 --> 01:40:32,970
APEC, not to be confused with

3201
01:40:32,970 --> 01:40:34,410
the Zionist organization have a

3202
01:40:34,410 --> 01:40:36,840
similar name. During the first

3203
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:38,970
Clinton run, and this was like

3204
01:40:38,970 --> 01:40:39,900
one of these, we're talking

3205
01:40:39,900 --> 01:40:41,730
earlier about how I clung and

3206
01:40:41,730 --> 01:40:42,810
we're kind of like funneling

3207
01:40:42,810 --> 01:40:45,030
money through these various DNC

3208
01:40:45,270 --> 01:40:47,010
apparatuses. This was one of

3209
01:40:47,010 --> 01:40:49,020
those and so long in the lungs,

3210
01:40:49,020 --> 01:40:50,700
like crossed paths. This is one

3211
01:40:50,700 --> 01:40:52,860
of the examples of why this is

3212
01:40:52,860 --> 01:40:56,010
kind of the same network. And

3213
01:40:56,040 --> 01:40:58,200
the allegations concerning AIPAC

3214
01:40:58,200 --> 01:40:59,760
are identical to the whole long

3215
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:00,900
stuff, you know, these

3216
01:41:00,900 --> 01:41:02,670
allegations of moving illegal

3217
01:41:03,030 --> 01:41:05,130
campaign contributions from you

3218
01:41:05,130 --> 01:41:07,200
know, foreign entities and

3219
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:09,000
foreign businesses. There's

3220
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:11,160
stories of cash being delivered,

3221
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:14,250
and you know, paper bags. One

3222
01:41:14,250 --> 01:41:16,230
little connection of a pack that

3223
01:41:16,230 --> 01:41:16,980
I thought was really

3224
01:41:16,980 --> 01:41:19,050
interesting, was it involved the

3225
01:41:19,050 --> 01:41:21,570
guy named Charles chidiac, who

3226
01:41:21,570 --> 01:41:23,070
was involved in Hawaiian real

3227
01:41:23,070 --> 01:41:25,380
estate with the Lums. But before

3228
01:41:25,380 --> 01:41:26,820
that, he had appeared on what

3229
01:41:26,820 --> 01:41:28,950
was called the banca del lavoro

3230
01:41:28,950 --> 01:41:32,370
scandal BNL. And this bank was

3231
01:41:32,370 --> 01:41:35,130
financing both sides of the Iran

3232
01:41:35,160 --> 01:41:37,680
Iraq War, and had lots of ties

3233
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:40,200
like US intelligence to BCCI,

3234
01:41:40,200 --> 01:41:42,600
once again, to Henry Kissinger

3235
01:41:43,500 --> 01:41:45,720
and chidiac during that scandal

3236
01:41:45,810 --> 01:41:46,860
have been found. They've been

3237
01:41:46,860 --> 01:41:48,480
like very active with the bank,

3238
01:41:48,480 --> 01:41:50,580
and he was described as an asset

3239
01:41:50,850 --> 01:41:52,230
of American intelligence

3240
01:41:52,230 --> 01:41:54,300
services. So then he turns up,

3241
01:41:54,300 --> 01:41:55,770
you know, with the lungs and the

3242
01:41:55,770 --> 01:41:58,260
DNC, that's pretty telling, I

3243
01:41:58,260 --> 01:42:00,630
think, but so, you know, after

3244
01:42:00,630 --> 01:42:01,830
Clinton was elected, you know,

3245
01:42:01,830 --> 01:42:04,140
the first time, they immediately

3246
01:42:04,140 --> 01:42:06,240
end up running this oil and gas

3247
01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:08,460
company called dynamic energy.

3248
01:42:08,550 --> 01:42:09,990
And this is despite like, they

3249
01:42:09,990 --> 01:42:11,160
never had any previous

3250
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:14,220
experience in oil and gas. And

3251
01:42:14,220 --> 01:42:16,440
the company itself had no oil

3252
01:42:16,440 --> 01:42:18,960
and gas reserves of its own. In

3253
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:20,130
fact, like, if you look at some

3254
01:42:20,130 --> 01:42:21,480
of the reporting on it, it's a

3255
01:42:21,480 --> 01:42:22,770
total mystery where they even

3256
01:42:22,770 --> 01:42:24,360
got the money to launch it in

3257
01:42:24,360 --> 01:42:25,530
the first place.

3258
01:42:25,740 --> 01:42:27,180
Maybe that's why it's dynamic

3259
01:42:27,180 --> 01:42:28,680
energy where they're trying to

3260
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:30,090
get the energy from is like

3261
01:42:30,090 --> 01:42:30,720
changing.

3262
01:42:32,940 --> 01:42:34,050
That's kind of like that's the

3263
01:42:34,050 --> 01:42:35,100
thing they were these were like,

3264
01:42:35,100 --> 01:42:36,540
very kind of fly by night

3265
01:42:36,540 --> 01:42:38,340
people. They weren't wealthy.

3266
01:42:38,970 --> 01:42:40,200
They were kind of glorified

3267
01:42:40,200 --> 01:42:42,930
Grifters. Really? Yeah. Well,

3268
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:45,120
one of their, like, early

3269
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:46,620
partners was a guy named Stuart

3270
01:42:46,620 --> 01:42:48,360
price. Yeah, it was the son in

3271
01:42:48,360 --> 01:42:50,400
law, senate majority leader

3272
01:42:50,400 --> 01:42:51,630
George Mitchell.

3273
01:42:52,740 --> 01:42:53,940
Which is important, because

3274
01:42:53,970 --> 01:42:55,440
around this time is allegedly

3275
01:42:55,440 --> 01:42:56,670
when Epstein meets up with

3276
01:42:56,670 --> 01:42:58,620
George Mitchell. Yes, through

3277
01:42:58,620 --> 01:43:00,060
his meetings at the White House,

3278
01:43:00,060 --> 01:43:01,080
most of which are with metal

3279
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:03,480
tin. And then, of course, it's

3280
01:43:03,480 --> 01:43:04,650
been alleged since that he was

3281
01:43:04,650 --> 01:43:07,290
part of the sex trafficking

3282
01:43:07,440 --> 01:43:08,310
operation

3283
01:43:08,460 --> 01:43:09,870
that's made by Virginia

3284
01:43:09,870 --> 01:43:12,600
Jeffrey's Right, yeah, yeah. But

3285
01:43:13,200 --> 01:43:14,790
then the other interesting thing

3286
01:43:14,790 --> 01:43:16,950
about dynamic energy is not only

3287
01:43:16,950 --> 01:43:18,660
is it close to, you know, George

3288
01:43:18,660 --> 01:43:19,890
Mitchell, but it's like very

3289
01:43:19,890 --> 01:43:21,450
tight with the Commerce

3290
01:43:21,450 --> 01:43:23,790
Department itself. It's like Ron

3291
01:43:23,790 --> 01:43:26,430
Brown son, Michael Brown, he was

3292
01:43:26,430 --> 01:43:28,200
on the board of dynamic energy

3293
01:43:28,230 --> 01:43:30,030
and had a 5% stake in the

3294
01:43:30,030 --> 01:43:33,300
company. The mother of a

3295
01:43:33,300 --> 01:43:35,070
Commerce Department employee,

3296
01:43:35,250 --> 01:43:37,350
named Melinda Yee, who was very

3297
01:43:37,350 --> 01:43:39,210
close to long, she was on the

3298
01:43:39,210 --> 01:43:40,530
board as well and also have a

3299
01:43:40,530 --> 01:43:42,570
similar stake. And then at the

3300
01:43:42,570 --> 01:43:43,470
same time that this was

3301
01:43:43,470 --> 01:43:45,390
happening, the alums daughter,

3302
01:43:45,420 --> 01:43:47,070
Trisha alum, who was actually

3303
01:43:47,070 --> 01:43:48,450
hired into the Commerce

3304
01:43:48,450 --> 01:43:51,720
Department. Yeah. And so what's

3305
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:53,640
happening at the same time that

3306
01:43:53,640 --> 01:43:54,690
you know, all these ties are

3307
01:43:54,690 --> 01:43:56,760
forming is that the lump start

3308
01:43:56,760 --> 01:43:59,070
using dynamic energy to pay out

3309
01:43:59,070 --> 01:44:00,870
large sums of money to like

3310
01:44:00,990 --> 01:44:02,520
people associated with commerce

3311
01:44:02,520 --> 01:44:03,870
department, the, you know,

3312
01:44:03,870 --> 01:44:05,850
various politicians, the people

3313
01:44:05,850 --> 01:44:07,770
in the DNC, and then to also to

3314
01:44:07,770 --> 01:44:09,060
like really kind of like strange

3315
01:44:09,060 --> 01:44:11,610
like random businesses. Kind of

3316
01:44:11,610 --> 01:44:12,630
consistent with what we were

3317
01:44:12,630 --> 01:44:15,300
talking about earlier. The FBI

3318
01:44:15,300 --> 01:44:17,070
have reported that the lungs

3319
01:44:17,070 --> 01:44:18,210
were quote, unquote,

3320
01:44:18,420 --> 01:44:20,400
facilitators and conduits for

3321
01:44:20,400 --> 01:44:21,450
payments from private

3322
01:44:21,450 --> 01:44:22,740
individuals in real estate

3323
01:44:22,740 --> 01:44:25,110
development to public officials,

3324
01:44:25,440 --> 01:44:26,940
which in other words, it was a

3325
01:44:26,940 --> 01:44:28,410
Monday money laundering

3326
01:44:28,620 --> 01:44:30,900
operation. And it seems to have

3327
01:44:30,900 --> 01:44:32,520
developed like pretty clever

3328
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:35,280
ways to start getting money for

3329
01:44:35,280 --> 01:44:37,230
these, but seem to be payoffs,

3330
01:44:37,230 --> 01:44:39,930
right. And one of them involved

3331
01:44:39,930 --> 01:44:42,510
this contract with a natural gas

3332
01:44:42,510 --> 01:44:44,910
company called Oklahoma natural

3333
01:44:44,910 --> 01:44:47,850
gas. And Oklahoma natural gas

3334
01:44:47,850 --> 01:44:49,230
was very close to another

3335
01:44:49,230 --> 01:44:51,240
company called Arkla, which lo

3336
01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:53,160
and behold, was controlled by

3337
01:44:53,160 --> 01:44:54,840
the Stephens family of Stevens

3338
01:44:54,840 --> 01:44:57,360
Inc. and Mack McLarty

3339
01:44:57,390 --> 01:44:59,910
Middleton's boss was previously

3340
01:44:59,910 --> 01:45:02,490
the CEO of Arkla. And so, you

3341
01:45:02,490 --> 01:45:04,140
know, it's another telling

3342
01:45:04,140 --> 01:45:07,620
connection there. My notes for a

3343
01:45:07,620 --> 01:45:10,800
second. Yeah, so they're

3344
01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:12,210
entering into this kind of

3345
01:45:12,300 --> 01:45:15,060
contract, where dynamic energy

3346
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:19,380
would provide gas to Oklahoma

3347
01:45:19,380 --> 01:45:21,630
natural gas at a really steep

3348
01:45:21,630 --> 01:45:24,210
above market price. And so then

3349
01:45:24,210 --> 01:45:25,500
what Oklahoma natural gas will

3350
01:45:25,500 --> 01:45:27,420
do is to pass this on to the

3351
01:45:27,420 --> 01:45:29,760
consumers and overbill them. So

3352
01:45:29,760 --> 01:45:32,130
So to create revenue for dynamic

3353
01:45:32,160 --> 01:45:34,440
energy, but you know, there's

3354
01:45:34,470 --> 01:45:35,970
kind of scamming, you know, the

3355
01:45:35,970 --> 01:45:37,680
citizens of Oklahoma, and

3356
01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:39,120
Arkansas. And that's really what

3357
01:45:39,120 --> 01:45:40,950
starts to kick off the probe

3358
01:45:41,340 --> 01:45:43,050
into like, what's going on here?

3359
01:45:43,050 --> 01:45:44,850
Exactly. Because, you know, I

3360
01:45:44,850 --> 01:45:46,500
mentioned earlier, dynamic

3361
01:45:46,500 --> 01:45:48,450
energy didn't have any of its

3362
01:45:48,450 --> 01:45:51,390
own gas reserves. So in order to

3363
01:45:51,390 --> 01:45:52,860
get them it starts to try to

3364
01:45:52,860 --> 01:45:55,050
acquire another company called

3365
01:45:55,080 --> 01:45:58,440
gauge Corporation. And there was

3366
01:45:58,470 --> 01:46:00,000
evidence and this is why Ron

3367
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:01,530
Brown was getting kind of roped

3368
01:46:01,530 --> 01:46:02,700
into it because there was

3369
01:46:02,700 --> 01:46:04,170
significant evidence the White

3370
01:46:04,170 --> 01:46:06,180
House was like kind of guiding

3371
01:46:06,540 --> 01:46:08,640
this whole thing in vote Yeah,

3372
01:46:08,670 --> 01:46:11,250
sure that gauge was acquired.

3373
01:46:11,880 --> 01:46:14,340
And apparently Middleton's boss

3374
01:46:14,370 --> 01:46:15,510
or former boss at the White

3375
01:46:15,510 --> 01:46:17,310
House. McClaren Mack McLarty was

3376
01:46:17,310 --> 01:46:18,810
involved in it, too. So you have

3377
01:46:18,810 --> 01:46:20,670
like, all these people and all

3378
01:46:20,670 --> 01:46:22,050
these other scandals of the

3379
01:46:22,050 --> 01:46:23,910
Clinton era, like up in here. So

3380
01:46:23,910 --> 01:46:25,470
obviously, if that if this had

3381
01:46:25,470 --> 01:46:27,300
been appropriately investigated

3382
01:46:27,300 --> 01:46:29,310
in Yeah, and I'm sure if Ron

3383
01:46:29,610 --> 01:46:31,080
Brown had cooperated, it would

3384
01:46:31,080 --> 01:46:33,360
have led to a lot, a lot more

3385
01:46:33,390 --> 01:46:35,910
unraveling of, you know, some,

3386
01:46:36,150 --> 01:46:38,430
some crazy stuff in a pretty,

3387
01:46:38,460 --> 01:46:40,200
you know, short period of time.

3388
01:46:40,440 --> 01:46:44,040
So, you know, it also if I'm not

3389
01:46:44,040 --> 01:46:47,100
mistaken, just before we wrap up

3390
01:46:47,100 --> 01:46:49,830
here, one of the people that was

3391
01:46:49,830 --> 01:46:52,680
financing this was the Waltons,

3392
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:54,870
Alice walking through llama, the

3393
01:46:54,870 --> 01:46:56,970
llama company. And that's

3394
01:46:56,970 --> 01:46:58,290
significant. Well, I just want

3395
01:46:58,290 --> 01:46:59,490
to I just wanted to bring that

3396
01:46:59,490 --> 01:47:01,020
up, because I just wanted to

3397
01:47:01,020 --> 01:47:02,970
mention a little bit about this

3398
01:47:02,970 --> 01:47:05,250
NGO where Middleton's body was

3399
01:47:05,250 --> 01:47:07,320
found earlier this year. So

3400
01:47:07,350 --> 01:47:08,640
Heifer International is a

3401
01:47:08,640 --> 01:47:10,680
nonprofit. Their funders include

3402
01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:12,960
Walmart, BlackRock and the Bill

3403
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:14,430
and Melinda Gates Foundation.

3404
01:47:15,210 --> 01:47:17,190
And it's partnered with the

3405
01:47:17,190 --> 01:47:18,810
heifer Foundation. And the

3406
01:47:18,810 --> 01:47:20,430
Foundation's board of trustees

3407
01:47:20,430 --> 01:47:22,830
is chaired by the former

3408
01:47:22,830 --> 01:47:23,970
director of strategy and

3409
01:47:23,970 --> 01:47:25,530
business development for the

3410
01:47:25,530 --> 01:47:27,210
Clinton Development Initiative,

3411
01:47:27,210 --> 01:47:28,260
which is part of the Clinton

3412
01:47:28,260 --> 01:47:30,720
Foundation. So you have all of

3413
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:32,580
these interesting players

3414
01:47:32,580 --> 01:47:33,690
involved with this particular

3415
01:47:33,690 --> 01:47:36,840
NGO or Middleton's body was

3416
01:47:36,840 --> 01:47:39,990
found hanging from a tree. Just

3417
01:47:39,990 --> 01:47:41,430
a little weird, because more or

3418
01:47:41,430 --> 01:47:42,690
less most almost all of these

3419
01:47:42,690 --> 01:47:44,520
people with the exception of

3420
01:47:44,520 --> 01:47:45,720
Blackrock, I guess, but I mean,

3421
01:47:45,720 --> 01:47:46,890
they own everything and, you

3422
01:47:46,890 --> 01:47:49,440
know, Wall Street. So, you know,

3423
01:47:49,500 --> 01:47:51,090
they're involved too, with this

3424
01:47:51,090 --> 01:47:52,650
group in the book, basically. I

3425
01:47:52,650 --> 01:47:55,260
mean, it's interesting to say

3426
01:47:55,260 --> 01:47:56,040
the very least

3427
01:47:56,070 --> 01:47:57,390
what one other just like really

3428
01:47:57,390 --> 01:47:58,320
weird connection, you know,

3429
01:47:58,320 --> 01:48:01,380
mentioning that, yeah, so yeah,

3430
01:48:01,380 --> 01:48:03,480
they got financing dynamic to

3431
01:48:03,510 --> 01:48:06,900
buy. Gauge from Loma, like you

3432
01:48:06,930 --> 01:48:08,340
said, was connected to the

3433
01:48:08,340 --> 01:48:10,320
Walmart fortune through Alice

3434
01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:13,050
Walton. What's really funny is

3435
01:48:13,050 --> 01:48:14,850
that they were actually located

3436
01:48:14,850 --> 01:48:17,100
in another they were located in

3437
01:48:17,100 --> 01:48:18,720
the state bank of Tulsa

3438
01:48:18,720 --> 01:48:19,470
building, that's where their

3439
01:48:19,470 --> 01:48:21,000
headquarters were, which was

3440
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:22,800
controlled by a company called

3441
01:48:22,830 --> 01:48:24,570
our vest, which was another

3442
01:48:24,570 --> 01:48:28,920
Alice Walton. entity. And if you

3443
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:31,770
look, if you look at news about

3444
01:48:31,770 --> 01:48:36,090
Mark Middleton, June 28 2021,

3445
01:48:36,270 --> 01:48:37,950
Middleton joined the board of

3446
01:48:37,950 --> 01:48:39,780
directors of our best just a

3447
01:48:39,780 --> 01:48:41,820
year or so before he died. So,

3448
01:48:42,270 --> 01:48:42,690
you know,

3449
01:48:42,749 --> 01:48:44,519
Oh, interesting. Okay. I didn't

3450
01:48:44,519 --> 01:48:45,389
I didn't really I didn't know

3451
01:48:45,389 --> 01:48:46,229
that about Middleton.

3452
01:48:46,920 --> 01:48:48,000
Until this morning. And so.

3453
01:48:49,170 --> 01:48:50,160
Well, I'm gonna have to look

3454
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:52,530
into that now. Well, all right.

3455
01:48:52,560 --> 01:48:55,680
Yeah. So obviously, that's

3456
01:48:55,680 --> 01:48:56,940
really crazy. Because what I

3457
01:48:56,940 --> 01:48:58,260
have read about Middleton in the

3458
01:48:58,260 --> 01:49:00,090
in the, in recent years is that

3459
01:49:00,090 --> 01:49:01,260
he was like running an air

3460
01:49:01,260 --> 01:49:03,960
conditioning business. He was

3461
01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:04,920
running an air conditioning

3462
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:06,120
business, but he seems to have

3463
01:49:06,120 --> 01:49:07,800
still been kind of circulating

3464
01:49:07,800 --> 01:49:08,490
in the same

3465
01:49:08,520 --> 01:49:11,340
in these worlds. Yeah, well, I

3466
01:49:11,340 --> 01:49:12,930
guess um, the Epstein scandal

3467
01:49:12,930 --> 01:49:14,550
broke down another another guy,

3468
01:49:14,580 --> 01:49:15,630
because honestly, you know, I

3469
01:49:15,630 --> 01:49:18,330
think he's involved with all

3470
01:49:18,330 --> 01:49:19,680
this stuff. He's involved with

3471
01:49:19,680 --> 01:49:21,390
these crazy campaign finance

3472
01:49:21,390 --> 01:49:23,040
scandals and trying to gauge the

3473
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:25,170
Ron Brown stuff. Ron Brown ends

3474
01:49:25,170 --> 01:49:26,640
up dead Mark Middleton doesn't

3475
01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:29,640
end up dead until 2022. Yeah,

3476
01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:33,360
it's like why 2022? And I don't

3477
01:49:33,360 --> 01:49:35,160
know. i My suspicion is that it

3478
01:49:35,160 --> 01:49:36,240
has to do with all this stuff

3479
01:49:36,240 --> 01:49:37,590
about Epstein meeting with him

3480
01:49:37,590 --> 01:49:38,940
in December coming out in

3481
01:49:38,940 --> 01:49:40,620
December 2021. That's the only

3482
01:49:40,620 --> 01:49:42,480
thing really, you know, the only

3483
01:49:42,480 --> 01:49:44,100
blip on the radar since like

3484
01:49:44,100 --> 01:49:46,710
2001 or 2002, about Mark

3485
01:49:46,710 --> 01:49:48,330
Middleton anywhere, you know.

3486
01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:50,940
So also, it was so strange

3487
01:49:50,970 --> 01:49:52,890
because I felt like he died like

3488
01:49:52,890 --> 01:49:53,910
right in the middle of when we

3489
01:49:53,910 --> 01:49:55,500
were researching this particular

3490
01:49:55,500 --> 01:49:59,730
material. I know it was not just

3491
01:49:59,760 --> 01:50:00,720
real Have something.

3492
01:50:00,900 --> 01:50:02,760
Yeah, that was super tribute.

3493
01:50:02,760 --> 01:50:04,080
Yeah. So we were wrapping up

3494
01:50:04,230 --> 01:50:06,030
this chapter and pretty much the

3495
01:50:06,030 --> 01:50:08,220
book around the time reason for

3496
01:50:08,220 --> 01:50:10,830
Middleton's death brown. It blew

3497
01:50:10,830 --> 01:50:12,240
our minds. And then we saw that

3498
01:50:12,240 --> 01:50:13,080
they were going to call it a

3499
01:50:13,080 --> 01:50:14,820
suicide. Like before they

3500
01:50:14,820 --> 01:50:17,670
announced it, they were like, in

3501
01:50:17,670 --> 01:50:19,320
lieu of, you know, gifts to the

3502
01:50:19,320 --> 01:50:21,150
family donate to like, you know,

3503
01:50:21,150 --> 01:50:22,830
some suicide hotline, and we

3504
01:50:22,830 --> 01:50:23,790
were like, Oh, my God.

3505
01:50:25,050 --> 01:50:26,160
Details came out that he had

3506
01:50:26,160 --> 01:50:28,320
hung himself and shot himself,

3507
01:50:28,350 --> 01:50:29,640
you know, the way that people

3508
01:50:29,640 --> 01:50:30,930
generally, you know, commit

3509
01:50:30,930 --> 01:50:31,500
suicide.

3510
01:50:31,529 --> 01:50:32,639
Yeah. Well, the other thing I

3511
01:50:32,639 --> 01:50:33,659
didn't mention about the death

3512
01:50:33,659 --> 01:50:35,879
scene, is that reportedly the

3513
01:50:35,879 --> 01:50:38,969
sheriff or I guess, police

3514
01:50:38,969 --> 01:50:40,139
officers at the scene, they said

3515
01:50:40,139 --> 01:50:41,789
there wasn't a lot of blood or

3516
01:50:41,789 --> 01:50:44,159
anything. That's a quote at the

3517
01:50:44,159 --> 01:50:47,099
scene. Okay, but I just a

3518
01:50:47,099 --> 01:50:48,599
shotgun blast to the chest like,

3519
01:50:48,599 --> 01:50:49,979
how was there? Not a lot of

3520
01:50:49,979 --> 01:50:51,689
like, how's that? Not grizzly?

3521
01:50:52,049 --> 01:50:54,269
Yeah, that's it reminds me of

3522
01:50:54,269 --> 01:50:55,439
Vince Foster, because you know,

3523
01:50:55,439 --> 01:50:58,079
Vince Foster's body, they was

3524
01:50:58,079 --> 01:50:59,579
allegedly very little blood at

3525
01:50:59,579 --> 01:51:00,689
the scene, like people that

3526
01:51:00,689 --> 01:51:02,039
handle the body didn't even have

3527
01:51:02,039 --> 01:51:03,089
to wear gloves, because there

3528
01:51:03,089 --> 01:51:05,639
was like, no blood. Right, but

3529
01:51:05,639 --> 01:51:07,679
he supposedly shot himself in

3530
01:51:07,679 --> 01:51:10,019
the mouth. And that's messy. So

3531
01:51:10,049 --> 01:51:10,799
there should have been blood

3532
01:51:10,799 --> 01:51:12,899
everywhere. And there wasn't. So

3533
01:51:12,929 --> 01:51:14,549
the claim is like that he was

3534
01:51:14,549 --> 01:51:17,069
moved. The body was moved in the

3535
01:51:17,069 --> 01:51:18,209
case of Vince Foster. Like,

3536
01:51:18,209 --> 01:51:19,859
that's what a lot of people who

3537
01:51:19,859 --> 01:51:21,269
question the official story,

3538
01:51:21,269 --> 01:51:22,529
which the official story is just

3539
01:51:22,529 --> 01:51:24,209
like, so dumb for Vince Foster

3540
01:51:24,209 --> 01:51:27,299
anyway, but yeah, you know, it's

3541
01:51:27,299 --> 01:51:29,099
most likely his body was moved

3542
01:51:29,099 --> 01:51:30,419
there and like he bled out

3543
01:51:30,419 --> 01:51:32,429
somewhere else. So with

3544
01:51:32,429 --> 01:51:34,169
Middleton, if there's no blood

3545
01:51:34,169 --> 01:51:35,639
at the scene, that would make

3546
01:51:35,639 --> 01:51:38,219
sense. But then, you know, that

3547
01:51:38,249 --> 01:51:39,749
raises some questions. And then

3548
01:51:39,749 --> 01:51:40,829
this Arkansas court, like

3549
01:51:40,829 --> 01:51:42,179
immediately comes in, and

3550
01:51:42,179 --> 01:51:44,249
they're like, oh, yeah, no

3551
01:51:44,249 --> 01:51:46,139
videos, no photos, nothing can

3552
01:51:46,139 --> 01:51:47,249
ever be revealed about the

3553
01:51:47,249 --> 01:51:49,109
Middleton death scene, sealed

3554
01:51:49,109 --> 01:51:51,119
forevermore. And that's the end

3555
01:51:51,119 --> 01:51:53,609
of that, you know, just

3556
01:51:53,670 --> 01:51:55,710
pretty weird. Yeah, I guess you

3557
01:51:55,710 --> 01:51:57,630
know, what one thing that I

3558
01:51:57,630 --> 01:51:59,130
wanted to mention, like while

3559
01:51:59,130 --> 01:52:00,210
we're adding people to the

3560
01:52:00,210 --> 01:52:02,700
Clinton death list, is that the

3561
01:52:02,700 --> 01:52:04,650
guy who owned a gauge company

3562
01:52:04,650 --> 01:52:06,600
we're talking about? All right,

3563
01:52:06,870 --> 01:52:09,390
he's all started. Yeah, while he

3564
01:52:09,390 --> 01:52:10,890
was cooperating with the FBI,

3565
01:52:11,130 --> 01:52:13,530
died of a respiratory ailment of

3566
01:52:13,530 --> 01:52:15,420
like, unknown nature is I think,

3567
01:52:15,420 --> 01:52:17,610
how the medical examiner put it,

3568
01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:19,200
and he had been telling friends

3569
01:52:19,200 --> 01:52:20,970
and family, but like, the weeks

3570
01:52:20,970 --> 01:52:22,830
prior to that happening, we had

3571
01:52:22,830 --> 01:52:24,510
been receiving death threats.

3572
01:52:24,630 --> 01:52:25,980
And I think also a private

3573
01:52:25,980 --> 01:52:27,390
detective that he had hired to,

3574
01:52:27,390 --> 01:52:28,800
like, help him with this case.

3575
01:52:28,890 --> 01:52:30,360
And also, like, I think somebody

3576
01:52:30,360 --> 01:52:31,590
like Matt a shot through is like

3577
01:52:31,590 --> 01:52:32,760
car windshield or something.

3578
01:52:32,789 --> 01:52:35,519
Yeah, that's so nuts. I mean,

3579
01:52:35,549 --> 01:52:36,959
the death toll is pretty big.

3580
01:52:36,989 --> 01:52:37,979
But I wouldn't call it the

3581
01:52:37,979 --> 01:52:39,449
Clinton kill list. I mean, it's

3582
01:52:39,449 --> 01:52:40,469
not just the Clintons we're

3583
01:52:40,469 --> 01:52:42,359
talking about here. For

3584
01:52:42,359 --> 01:52:43,709
something else, right. Just like

3585
01:52:43,709 --> 01:52:45,209
Epstein is middle management for

3586
01:52:45,209 --> 01:52:46,499
something else. Like he's not

3587
01:52:46,499 --> 01:52:47,549
the top of the food chain.

3588
01:52:47,819 --> 01:52:49,589
Absent neither. Neither are the

3589
01:52:49,589 --> 01:52:51,809
Clintons. Alright. So I think we

3590
01:52:51,809 --> 01:52:53,219
did a pretty good job today of

3591
01:52:53,219 --> 01:52:55,919
unraveling what we could, you

3592
01:52:55,919 --> 01:52:56,939
know, obviously do more in the

3593
01:52:56,939 --> 01:52:58,739
book. But, you know, unraveling

3594
01:52:58,739 --> 01:52:59,849
what we could have the mark

3595
01:52:59,849 --> 01:53:01,709
Middleton mystery, you know,

3596
01:53:01,709 --> 01:53:02,849
what was really going on with

3597
01:53:02,849 --> 01:53:04,169
Mark Middleton and what you

3598
01:53:04,169 --> 01:53:06,569
know, may be there, in terms of

3599
01:53:06,929 --> 01:53:09,089
you know, it the significance of

3600
01:53:09,089 --> 01:53:10,589
Middleton meeting with Epstein

3601
01:53:10,589 --> 01:53:11,729
during that particular period of

3602
01:53:11,729 --> 01:53:15,689
time, and why the US media will

3603
01:53:15,689 --> 01:53:18,569
not touch the Epstein White

3604
01:53:18,569 --> 01:53:20,699
House relationship in the 90s.

3605
01:53:20,729 --> 01:53:22,379
They just won't touch it, which

3606
01:53:22,379 --> 01:53:24,269
is mental. It was only only

3607
01:53:24,269 --> 01:53:25,889
really reported on the UK at all

3608
01:53:25,919 --> 01:53:27,089
admit same with Middleton's

3609
01:53:28,410 --> 01:53:30,000
Middleton's death was only like

3610
01:53:30,540 --> 01:53:31,230
the daily

3611
01:53:31,440 --> 01:53:33,390
Daily Mail Daily Mail. That's,

3612
01:53:33,960 --> 01:53:35,610
yeah, I think I think the New

3613
01:53:35,610 --> 01:53:37,800
York Post might have republished

3614
01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:38,910
one or two of these stories, but

3615
01:53:38,910 --> 01:53:40,950
that's really it. And you think

3616
01:53:41,010 --> 01:53:42,000
you would think with all the

3617
01:53:42,000 --> 01:53:43,860
attention that the Epstein

3618
01:53:43,860 --> 01:53:45,180
scandals gotten in the media,

3619
01:53:45,210 --> 01:53:47,280
the photo last December of

3620
01:53:47,280 --> 01:53:48,450
Epstein shaking hands with

3621
01:53:48,450 --> 01:53:49,590
Clinton, at that White House

3622
01:53:49,590 --> 01:53:51,570
Historical fundraiser would have

3623
01:53:51,570 --> 01:53:53,430
gotten some attention, right?

3624
01:53:53,430 --> 01:53:54,150
Because they're obviously

3625
01:53:54,150 --> 01:53:55,470
meeting in 1993 and Gilead

3626
01:53:55,470 --> 01:53:57,840
Maximals there. But now, they

3627
01:53:57,840 --> 01:53:58,800
really liked their narrative

3628
01:53:58,800 --> 01:53:59,640
that they didn't meet until

3629
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:01,980
like, 2001. And so they won't

3630
01:54:01,980 --> 01:54:03,690
change it. They'll just ignore

3631
01:54:03,690 --> 01:54:05,340
the other evidence about it. I

3632
01:54:05,340 --> 01:54:06,120
mean, same thing with Bill

3633
01:54:06,120 --> 01:54:07,830
Gates, Epstein. And Bill Gates

3634
01:54:07,830 --> 01:54:08,880
officially didn't meet till

3635
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:10,980
2011. But there's 2000 articles

3636
01:54:10,980 --> 01:54:12,900
from 2001 Saying that Jeffrey

3637
01:54:12,900 --> 01:54:15,270
Epstein had had made boatloads

3638
01:54:15,270 --> 01:54:16,470
of money through his business

3639
01:54:16,470 --> 01:54:17,610
links with Bill Gates. It's

3640
01:54:17,610 --> 01:54:18,090
like,

3641
01:54:18,300 --> 01:54:19,560
are these the articles that like

3642
01:54:19,560 --> 01:54:20,880
to vanish from the internet?

3643
01:54:20,970 --> 01:54:21,720
Yeah,

3644
01:54:21,750 --> 01:54:22,800
but they're, you can still find

3645
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:23,820
them. I mean, I found them.

3646
01:54:23,940 --> 01:54:25,050
Yeah, I just had to get

3647
01:54:25,050 --> 01:54:26,940
creative. You know, but they're

3648
01:54:26,940 --> 01:54:27,690
there. And they're probably

3649
01:54:27,690 --> 01:54:28,590
they're on like, the British

3650
01:54:29,340 --> 01:54:30,930
version of newspapers.com. You

3651
01:54:30,930 --> 01:54:31,860
know, the British Newspaper

3652
01:54:31,860 --> 01:54:33,690
Archive, you know, it's all

3653
01:54:33,690 --> 01:54:36,150
there. It's just, you know, not

3654
01:54:36,150 --> 01:54:37,590
not easy to find on a Google

3655
01:54:37,590 --> 01:54:40,230
search anymore or, you know, the

3656
01:54:40,230 --> 01:54:41,340
Evening Standard, which is the

3657
01:54:41,340 --> 01:54:42,300
outlet the publish that

3658
01:54:42,300 --> 01:54:43,230
particular article, their

3659
01:54:43,230 --> 01:54:44,760
website, you know, but the

3660
01:54:44,760 --> 01:54:46,110
silence is deafening in this

3661
01:54:46,110 --> 01:54:47,760
case, specifically, and I think,

3662
01:54:47,790 --> 01:54:49,050
you know, the fact that you had

3663
01:54:50,070 --> 01:54:51,750
two administrations step in to

3664
01:54:51,750 --> 01:54:53,610
protect Middleton, who by all

3665
01:54:53,610 --> 01:54:55,560
appearances is just like a

3666
01:54:55,620 --> 01:54:57,870
relatively lowly White House

3667
01:54:57,900 --> 01:54:59,700
aide, like he's not even he's

3668
01:54:59,700 --> 01:55:01,200
not Uh, the head of a

3669
01:55:01,200 --> 01:55:03,510
department, right? He's not he's

3670
01:55:03,510 --> 01:55:05,370
not a top adviser topic, the

3671
01:55:05,370 --> 01:55:06,900
Clinton he's an advisor to an

3672
01:55:06,900 --> 01:55:08,610
advisor to Clinton. Right.

3673
01:55:08,700 --> 01:55:10,200
Right, or an aide to

3674
01:55:10,260 --> 01:55:11,580
one of Clinton stopped by an

3675
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:13,080
aide to the Chief of Staff I

3676
01:55:13,080 --> 01:55:13,680
guess. Yeah,

3677
01:55:13,680 --> 01:55:15,570
so Well, yeah. But you know,

3678
01:55:15,570 --> 01:55:16,860
eventually McLarty was also

3679
01:55:16,860 --> 01:55:19,650
like, you know, senior counsel

3680
01:55:19,650 --> 01:55:20,970
the President or whatever, like

3681
01:55:20,970 --> 01:55:23,160
he wasn't around Yeah, yeah. So

3682
01:55:23,160 --> 01:55:24,390
they bounced around. But you

3683
01:55:24,390 --> 01:55:25,140
know, Middleton was with

3684
01:55:25,140 --> 01:55:26,940
McClarty the whole time, but he

3685
01:55:26,940 --> 01:55:28,710
wasn't definitely at the top of

3686
01:55:28,710 --> 01:55:30,330
the White House hierarchy. But

3687
01:55:30,330 --> 01:55:31,560
then you have George W. Bush

3688
01:55:31,560 --> 01:55:33,270
invoking executive privilege to

3689
01:55:33,270 --> 01:55:35,940
shield this guy in a couple of

3690
01:55:35,940 --> 01:55:38,100
weeks before 911. I mean, it's

3691
01:55:38,100 --> 01:55:40,050
just, it's not. And now you have

3692
01:55:40,230 --> 01:55:42,660
US media and just not covering

3693
01:55:42,660 --> 01:55:44,760
it at all. And we talked about

3694
01:55:44,760 --> 01:55:45,780
this a little bit before, but

3695
01:55:45,780 --> 01:55:46,830
there's like this, you know, New

3696
01:55:46,830 --> 01:55:49,260
Yorker, recent New Yorker panel,

3697
01:55:49,260 --> 01:55:51,000
this panel of, quote unquote

3698
01:55:51,000 --> 01:55:53,460
experts on the Epstein case, I'm

3699
01:55:53,850 --> 01:55:55,080
talking about, like, the

3700
01:55:55,080 --> 01:55:56,790
unanswered questions. Yeah, Mark

3701
01:55:56,790 --> 01:56:00,030
Middleton's not on there. So you

3702
01:56:00,030 --> 01:56:02,040
know, that's, that's problematic

3703
01:56:02,040 --> 01:56:03,870
to me. You know, obviously, I

3704
01:56:03,870 --> 01:56:05,460
was not invited to participate.

3705
01:56:05,460 --> 01:56:07,410
But looking at the panelists

3706
01:56:07,410 --> 01:56:09,300
there, I didn't see a single one

3707
01:56:09,300 --> 01:56:10,800
who's ever acknowledged really

3708
01:56:10,800 --> 01:56:12,420
anything about Epstein's

3709
01:56:12,420 --> 01:56:13,710
intelligence ties, except with

3710
01:56:13,710 --> 01:56:16,740
the possibility of a CIA one. No

3711
01:56:16,740 --> 01:56:18,390
mention of Israeli intelligence.

3712
01:56:18,480 --> 01:56:21,420
So, you know, I think you

3713
01:56:21,450 --> 01:56:23,340
probably, yes, why I wasn't

3714
01:56:23,340 --> 01:56:24,630
invited, but I'll just leave it

3715
01:56:24,630 --> 01:56:26,040
at that. So anyway,

3716
01:56:26,400 --> 01:56:27,720
start to change, you know, as

3717
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:28,710
the book gets out there.

3718
01:56:29,730 --> 01:56:30,840
Yeah, well, we'll see what

3719
01:56:30,840 --> 01:56:32,220
happens. Um, hopefully, I won't

3720
01:56:32,220 --> 01:56:35,430
end up like, like Ron Brown. You

3721
01:56:36,360 --> 01:56:37,470
know, I'm kidding. I'm not

3722
01:56:37,500 --> 01:56:39,570
worried about that. So anyway,

3723
01:56:40,320 --> 01:56:42,060
so Edie, thanks a lot for

3724
01:56:42,180 --> 01:56:44,070
joining me for a longer than

3725
01:56:44,070 --> 01:56:46,020
national podcast, but a lot of

3726
01:56:46,350 --> 01:56:48,030
material that's very complicated

3727
01:56:48,030 --> 01:56:49,140
to get into. And, you know, we

3728
01:56:49,140 --> 01:56:50,490
didn't really even get into the

3729
01:56:50,490 --> 01:56:51,660
half of it. You know, there's

3730
01:56:51,660 --> 01:56:54,030
obviously a lot more to unravel

3731
01:56:54,030 --> 01:56:55,140
there. But I think that's a good

3732
01:56:55,140 --> 01:56:56,460
start for people to realize the

3733
01:56:56,460 --> 01:56:58,770
significance of Mark Middleton

3734
01:56:58,770 --> 01:57:00,840
and also just, you know, Ken

3735
01:57:00,840 --> 01:57:01,830
Starr, right. The guy

3736
01:57:01,830 --> 01:57:03,480
investigating Clinton corruption

3737
01:57:03,480 --> 01:57:05,580
supposedly died like a couple

3738
01:57:05,580 --> 01:57:07,470
days ago. And he didn't get into

3739
01:57:07,470 --> 01:57:08,970
any of this stuff like at all

3740
01:57:09,000 --> 01:57:10,500
right, and so pretty much the

3741
01:57:10,500 --> 01:57:11,940
definition of a limited hanging

3742
01:57:11,940 --> 01:57:13,440
out, right. Yeah. And then he

3743
01:57:13,440 --> 01:57:13,620
was

3744
01:57:13,620 --> 01:57:15,090
Epstein's defense attorney.

3745
01:57:15,120 --> 01:57:18,480
Right? So he based Yeah,

3746
01:57:18,510 --> 01:57:20,610
totally. And he also basically

3747
01:57:20,610 --> 01:57:21,810
helped cover all this stuff up

3748
01:57:21,810 --> 01:57:23,400
with Middleton up he it didn't

3749
01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:24,690
come up in his stuff at all. He

3750
01:57:24,690 --> 01:57:26,820
just totally like, No, thanks.

3751
01:57:27,030 --> 01:57:28,710
You know, in that same with the

3752
01:57:28,710 --> 01:57:30,270
Vince Foster stuff glossed over

3753
01:57:30,270 --> 01:57:31,740
that, like key evidence. And

3754
01:57:31,740 --> 01:57:33,150
that case that was given to him,

3755
01:57:33,150 --> 01:57:35,730
he lost or allegedly destroyed

3756
01:57:35,730 --> 01:57:36,870
it and stuff. I mean, he was

3757
01:57:36,870 --> 01:57:38,940
obviously, you know, not working

3758
01:57:38,940 --> 01:57:40,830
for the people on that one. So

3759
01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:43,140
there's actually, you know, the

3760
01:57:43,140 --> 01:57:44,100
more you look at the Clinton

3761
01:57:44,100 --> 01:57:45,900
era, the more insane it gets in

3762
01:57:45,900 --> 01:57:47,700
the fact that, you know, this

3763
01:57:47,700 --> 01:57:49,140
was in the 90s. I can't even

3764
01:57:49,140 --> 01:57:50,280
imagine the kind of stuff that

3765
01:57:50,280 --> 01:57:52,260
goes on now. I mean, it's just

3766
01:57:52,290 --> 01:57:53,550
mind boggling.

3767
01:57:55,470 --> 01:57:57,210
Information control today that

3768
01:57:57,210 --> 01:57:58,680
it's frightening to think about.

3769
01:57:59,039 --> 01:58:01,139
Yeah, totally. Well, I think

3770
01:58:01,139 --> 01:58:01,859
they've just bought off

3771
01:58:01,859 --> 01:58:03,239
mainstream media a lot more than

3772
01:58:03,239 --> 01:58:04,349
before. And I think that

3773
01:58:04,349 --> 01:58:05,459
happened in a big way, like

3774
01:58:05,459 --> 01:58:07,439
after 911. Because, you know,

3775
01:58:07,439 --> 01:58:09,269
for example, I in some of my

3776
01:58:09,269 --> 01:58:10,409
other work, right? I I've

3777
01:58:10,409 --> 01:58:11,789
written about how, like DARPA

3778
01:58:11,789 --> 01:58:13,289
has total information awareness,

3779
01:58:13,319 --> 01:58:15,119
they put John Poindexter from

3780
01:58:15,119 --> 01:58:17,249
Iran Contra in charge of there

3781
01:58:17,249 --> 01:58:19,409
was like a huge chorus of

3782
01:58:19,409 --> 01:58:21,479
dissent from mainstream media

3783
01:58:21,719 --> 01:58:23,699
about how bad that was, and how

3784
01:58:23,699 --> 01:58:25,319
it was going to erode privacy.

3785
01:58:25,589 --> 01:58:27,239
And that basically that same

3786
01:58:27,239 --> 01:58:29,129
programs to basically exist as

3787
01:58:29,129 --> 01:58:31,139
Palantir today, but the New York

3788
01:58:31,139 --> 01:58:32,579
Times just writes like puff

3789
01:58:32,579 --> 01:58:33,779
pieces on Palantir.

3790
01:58:34,560 --> 01:58:35,700
You talk about that in the book,

3791
01:58:35,700 --> 01:58:37,080
right? And the second one, yeah,

3792
01:58:37,080 --> 01:58:37,800
yeah, a little bit

3793
01:58:37,800 --> 01:58:40,140
in the last chapter. But, you

3794
01:58:40,140 --> 01:58:41,520
know, in other stuff I've talked

3795
01:58:41,520 --> 01:58:43,200
to, you know, I've done a lot of

3796
01:58:43,200 --> 01:58:45,420
stuff on DARPA and NTIA because

3797
01:58:45,420 --> 01:58:46,980
a lot of it was resurrected on

3798
01:58:46,980 --> 01:58:48,060
under the guise of combating

3799
01:58:48,060 --> 01:58:50,460
COVID-19, like the CIA's bio

3800
01:58:50,460 --> 01:58:51,720
surveillance program, the whole

3801
01:58:51,720 --> 01:58:53,850
wastewater surveillance stuff

3802
01:58:53,850 --> 01:58:56,820
that's come to pass now under

3803
01:58:56,820 --> 01:58:58,710
part of HHS, and it's Palantir

3804
01:58:58,710 --> 01:59:00,270
that's managing that data as

3805
01:59:00,270 --> 01:59:02,190
part of HHS protect and all of

3806
01:59:02,190 --> 01:59:03,360
that stuff. So yeah, I mean,

3807
01:59:03,360 --> 01:59:05,130
it's literally still exists. But

3808
01:59:05,130 --> 01:59:05,970
no one's complaining and

3809
01:59:05,970 --> 01:59:07,170
mainstream media now. You know

3810
01:59:07,170 --> 01:59:09,240
what I mean? Yeah. But they did

3811
01:59:09,240 --> 01:59:10,890
in 2003. So I think a lot of

3812
01:59:10,890 --> 01:59:12,300
this media consolidation that

3813
01:59:12,300 --> 01:59:14,190
started that got really crazy in

3814
01:59:14,190 --> 01:59:15,930
the Reagan era, you know, and

3815
01:59:15,930 --> 01:59:18,540
then by the 2000s, roughly, you

3816
01:59:18,540 --> 01:59:20,040
have like six companies owned at

3817
01:59:20,040 --> 01:59:21,150
all, but then you still have

3818
01:59:21,150 --> 01:59:22,860
journalists that have platforms,

3819
01:59:22,890 --> 01:59:24,900
right, that are complaining and

3820
01:59:24,900 --> 01:59:26,220
allowed to publish that. No, I

3821
01:59:26,220 --> 01:59:27,510
think they had to tighten their

3822
01:59:27,510 --> 01:59:28,980
control of like mainstream media

3823
01:59:28,980 --> 01:59:30,120
to a big degree. But now you

3824
01:59:30,120 --> 01:59:31,080
have mainstream interest in

3825
01:59:31,080 --> 01:59:32,520
mainstream media like cratering?

3826
01:59:33,960 --> 01:59:35,520
Hugely because people know that,

3827
01:59:35,850 --> 01:59:37,230
I think even on a subconscious

3828
01:59:37,230 --> 01:59:38,160
level that like they're not

3829
01:59:38,160 --> 01:59:39,570
being told the whole truth about

3830
01:59:39,570 --> 01:59:40,620
what's going on anymore.

3831
01:59:40,710 --> 01:59:41,730
Yeah, I think that they could

3832
01:59:41,730 --> 01:59:42,600
have been could have gotten away

3833
01:59:42,600 --> 01:59:44,310
with it like really easily and

3834
01:59:44,310 --> 01:59:46,530
maybe the first year or a year

3835
01:59:46,530 --> 01:59:48,030
and a half of COVID. But as it's

3836
01:59:48,030 --> 01:59:50,970
gone on, I think that the the

3837
01:59:50,970 --> 01:59:52,740
shock effect, I think, just

3838
01:59:52,740 --> 01:59:53,970
started to wear off and with

3839
01:59:53,970 --> 01:59:55,320
that kind of a more critical

3840
01:59:55,320 --> 01:59:55,890
attitude.

3841
01:59:56,609 --> 01:59:57,719
Yeah, but you're not really

3842
01:59:57,719 --> 01:59:59,039
seeing it in mainstream media.

3843
01:59:59,039 --> 02:00:00,539
You know what I mean? You Yeah,

3844
02:00:00,720 --> 02:00:02,250
yeah. And if you're an

3845
02:00:02,250 --> 02:00:03,420
independent, independent,

3846
02:00:03,870 --> 02:00:05,190
independent media, you're going

3847
02:00:05,190 --> 02:00:07,380
to be like sidelined, or

3848
02:00:07,410 --> 02:00:08,370
Yeah, well, the censorship is

3849
02:00:08,370 --> 02:00:09,720
only getting worse. Right? So

3850
02:00:09,720 --> 02:00:12,480
anyway, I don't I'm, you know, I

3851
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:14,580
hope that my, that the book has

3852
02:00:14,580 --> 02:00:16,740
an effect, but I just, you know,

3853
02:00:17,490 --> 02:00:18,720
I don't count on mainstream

3854
02:00:18,720 --> 02:00:20,130
media to help me out with that

3855
02:00:20,130 --> 02:00:22,650
one, you know what I mean? So

3856
02:00:22,650 --> 02:00:23,760
come from people that read the

3857
02:00:23,760 --> 02:00:25,320
book, and like it, and so far,

3858
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:26,130
people that have read it, have

3859
02:00:26,130 --> 02:00:27,570
really liked it, you know, some

3860
02:00:27,570 --> 02:00:29,280
review copies of have gone out,

3861
02:00:29,310 --> 02:00:31,680
somehow managed to get through

3862
02:00:31,710 --> 02:00:33,720
both volumes, which is like, 900

3863
02:00:33,720 --> 02:00:38,010
pages. Yeah, not a quick read.

3864
02:00:38,010 --> 02:00:40,890
And it's dense too. So, you

3865
02:00:40,890 --> 02:00:42,690
know, but reviews are very

3866
02:00:42,690 --> 02:00:45,990
positive. So that's awesome. You

3867
02:00:45,990 --> 02:00:48,270
know, it's, I'm happy that

3868
02:00:48,270 --> 02:00:50,220
people are gonna, are liking it

3869
02:00:50,220 --> 02:00:51,480
so far, because I really hope

3870
02:00:51,480 --> 02:00:54,300
people read it. Because, you

3871
02:00:54,300 --> 02:00:55,890
know, ultimately, you know,

3872
02:00:55,890 --> 02:00:57,060
talking about this type of

3873
02:00:57,060 --> 02:00:57,990
stuff. And what we talked about

3874
02:00:57,990 --> 02:00:59,340
today, I mean, these problems

3875
02:00:59,340 --> 02:01:00,630
haven't gone away. And if they

3876
02:01:00,630 --> 02:01:01,740
could get away with the stuff in

3877
02:01:01,740 --> 02:01:04,200
the 1990s, I mean, it's mental.

3878
02:01:04,230 --> 02:01:06,930
And you know, as we in the book,

3879
02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:09,330
unravel more about Middleton, it

3880
02:01:09,330 --> 02:01:10,530
becomes pretty clear that one of

3881
02:01:10,530 --> 02:01:12,690
the crazy things that seems to

3882
02:01:12,690 --> 02:01:16,230
have gone on under the surface

3883
02:01:16,230 --> 02:01:17,760
of this other stuff that we we

3884
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:19,470
talked about today was just a

3885
02:01:19,470 --> 02:01:21,300
huge amount of text transfer,

3886
02:01:21,300 --> 02:01:22,500
and like weapons, smuggling, and

3887
02:01:22,500 --> 02:01:23,490
all this stuff, and a lot of it

3888
02:01:23,490 --> 02:01:24,930
happening in the United States.

3889
02:01:25,110 --> 02:01:26,130
And it really seems to be a

3890
02:01:26,130 --> 02:01:27,870
story that's like, on level with

3891
02:01:27,870 --> 02:01:29,850
what Gary Webb wrote about. In

3892
02:01:29,850 --> 02:01:31,140
Dark Alliance with the CIA

3893
02:01:31,140 --> 02:01:33,270
creating the crack epidemic in

3894
02:01:33,270 --> 02:01:34,470
urban communities, you have

3895
02:01:34,470 --> 02:01:36,210
basically the same groups, and

3896
02:01:36,210 --> 02:01:37,320
it looks like Southern Air

3897
02:01:37,320 --> 02:01:39,030
Transport involved with Wexner

3898
02:01:39,030 --> 02:01:41,280
is delimited was involved in

3899
02:01:41,280 --> 02:01:43,380
bringing these weapons to fuel

3900
02:01:43,380 --> 02:01:44,970
gang violence in the same areas

3901
02:01:44,970 --> 02:01:46,080
that were being targeted by the

3902
02:01:46,080 --> 02:01:47,760
CIA with the crack epidemic. And

3903
02:01:47,760 --> 02:01:49,260
that's totally mental. Because

3904
02:01:49,260 --> 02:01:50,520
the whole idea of that was to

3905
02:01:50,520 --> 02:01:52,860
pump, you know, private prisons

3906
02:01:52,860 --> 02:01:54,630
full of African Americans, and

3907
02:01:54,630 --> 02:01:56,100
basically, you know, use private

3908
02:01:56,100 --> 02:01:57,660
prison labor in the slavery's

3909
02:01:57,660 --> 02:01:59,910
back, you know, and there's a

3910
02:01:59,910 --> 02:02:01,020
whole nother side to this. And

3911
02:02:01,020 --> 02:02:02,070
it looks like it was going on

3912
02:02:02,070 --> 02:02:02,670
right in the middle of the

3913
02:02:02,670 --> 02:02:03,870
Clinton administration, who of

3914
02:02:03,870 --> 02:02:04,950
course, have I read unconscious

3915
02:02:04,950 --> 02:02:05,910
stuff? I mean, that's totally

3916
02:02:05,910 --> 02:02:07,950
nuts. So yeah, I'm not gonna get

3917
02:02:07,950 --> 02:02:09,510
invited on the New York Magazine

3918
02:02:09,510 --> 02:02:13,350
panel or whatever. Talking about

3919
02:02:13,350 --> 02:02:14,610
this stuff, I answered questions

3920
02:02:14,610 --> 02:02:15,810
about Epstein. Yeah, I have

3921
02:02:15,810 --> 02:02:17,790
many. You're not gonna like any

3922
02:02:17,790 --> 02:02:19,320
of them. These are the questions

3923
02:02:19,320 --> 02:02:20,790
you don't want to be answered.

3924
02:02:21,690 --> 02:02:23,100
My big hope, you know, it's like

3925
02:02:23,130 --> 02:02:24,480
when, you know, helping you with

3926
02:02:24,480 --> 02:02:25,800
this research, I feel like I

3927
02:02:25,800 --> 02:02:27,750
ended up with just hundreds and

3928
02:02:27,750 --> 02:02:29,400
hundreds of like, questions that

3929
02:02:29,400 --> 02:02:30,900
I wanted to answered. Like, I

3930
02:02:30,900 --> 02:02:32,160
just felt like we just like, in

3931
02:02:32,160 --> 02:02:33,600
a lot of ways that I felt like I

3932
02:02:33,600 --> 02:02:35,220
was just posing questions,

3933
02:02:35,400 --> 02:02:36,810
instead of like answering them.

3934
02:02:36,990 --> 02:02:38,280
And I'm hoping that as the book

3935
02:02:38,280 --> 02:02:39,900
comes out, like maybe people who

3936
02:02:39,900 --> 02:02:42,150
have information, you know, can

3937
02:02:42,150 --> 02:02:42,840
come forward.

3938
02:02:44,010 --> 02:02:45,300
Some people have mentioned that,

3939
02:02:45,300 --> 02:02:46,410
and I really hope that happens,

3940
02:02:46,410 --> 02:02:47,250
because this whole thing with

3941
02:02:47,250 --> 02:02:48,720
Middleton in Southern Air

3942
02:02:48,720 --> 02:02:50,670
Transport with the limited and

3943
02:02:50,700 --> 02:02:52,650
this this Chinese weapons stuff,

3944
02:02:52,920 --> 02:02:55,650
is nuts. And I really like I

3945
02:02:55,650 --> 02:02:57,090
wish I had more time to get to

3946
02:02:57,090 --> 02:02:58,590
the bottom of it. But you know,

3947
02:02:58,590 --> 02:03:00,090
it was sort of like, crunch

3948
02:03:00,090 --> 02:03:01,440
time. And you know, I can't make

3949
02:03:01,440 --> 02:03:04,320
the book like 1500 pages and

3950
02:03:04,320 --> 02:03:06,150
three volumes, you know, I'm

3951
02:03:06,150 --> 02:03:07,170
just gonna wait for that volume

3952
02:03:07,170 --> 02:03:08,040
three to come out.

3953
02:03:08,100 --> 02:03:09,870
Oh, man, don't even talk to me

3954
02:03:09,870 --> 02:03:12,480
about that. Like, sorry, sorry.

3955
02:03:12,540 --> 02:03:14,250
Oh, man. Yeah, I mean, I need a

3956
02:03:14,250 --> 02:03:15,390
little bit of breathing space,

3957
02:03:15,390 --> 02:03:16,920
you know, but anyway, the whole

3958
02:03:16,920 --> 02:03:18,120
point is, there's a lot to come

3959
02:03:18,120 --> 02:03:19,200
out. And this was, like, 30

3960
02:03:19,200 --> 02:03:21,180
years ago. And I mean, think

3961
02:03:21,180 --> 02:03:21,960
about all the stuff that's

3962
02:03:21,960 --> 02:03:23,010
happened then that we don't know

3963
02:03:23,010 --> 02:03:24,870
about. I mean, there's a lot of

3964
02:03:24,870 --> 02:03:27,030
work to be done here. So anyway,

3965
02:03:27,210 --> 02:03:29,280
Thanks, Ed. So much for helping

3966
02:03:29,280 --> 02:03:31,410
me piece together a lot of

3967
02:03:31,410 --> 02:03:33,150
what's in the book. And a lot

3968
02:03:33,150 --> 02:03:34,200
of, you know, I think it's a

3969
02:03:34,200 --> 02:03:36,120
good reference to build off of,

3970
02:03:36,120 --> 02:03:37,260
and that's what I hope the book,

3971
02:03:37,290 --> 02:03:40,050
the books will be for people. So

3972
02:03:40,080 --> 02:03:41,250
you know, we can figure out

3973
02:03:41,280 --> 02:03:42,840
who's really running the

3974
02:03:42,840 --> 02:03:45,300
country, and, you know, the US

3975
02:03:45,300 --> 02:03:46,620
Empire, because it's not just

3976
02:03:46,620 --> 02:03:48,420
the US, you know, client states

3977
02:03:48,420 --> 02:03:50,730
and all of that. So, anyway,

3978
02:03:50,910 --> 02:03:53,040
where can people listen to your

3979
02:03:53,040 --> 02:03:55,200
podcasts and support you and

3980
02:03:55,200 --> 02:03:56,550
learn about how amazing and

3981
02:03:56,550 --> 02:03:57,210
great you are?

3982
02:03:58,020 --> 02:04:00,750
Well, let's see the podcast.

3983
02:04:00,750 --> 02:04:03,180
That's the pseudo doxology

3984
02:04:03,180 --> 02:04:05,490
podcast, and you can find that

3985
02:04:05,520 --> 02:04:08,490
on Patreon. Then, I guess where

3986
02:04:08,490 --> 02:04:10,350
I'm most prolific, because we're

3987
02:04:10,350 --> 02:04:11,550
really mad about having a

3988
02:04:11,550 --> 02:04:13,290
consistently running podcast.

3989
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:15,000
People can find me on Twitter.

3990
02:04:15,930 --> 02:04:18,240
Twitter is at EB burger, and

3991
02:04:18,240 --> 02:04:20,880
that's B ERG er, so yeah, give

3992
02:04:20,880 --> 02:04:22,140
me a follow. Because,

3993
02:04:22,199 --> 02:04:23,249
yeah, a lot of the stuff like

3994
02:04:23,249 --> 02:04:24,089
the thing you mentioned about

3995
02:04:24,089 --> 02:04:25,199
Adnan Khashoggi and King

3996
02:04:25,199 --> 02:04:27,089
Solomon's mine, you can find

3997
02:04:27,089 --> 02:04:29,069
little gems like that on Ed's

3998
02:04:29,069 --> 02:04:32,099
Twitter feed. If you want to

3999
02:04:32,099 --> 02:04:33,449
know about these, these crazy

4000
02:04:33,449 --> 02:04:34,529
people during this period of

4001
02:04:34,529 --> 02:04:35,579
time and there's there's really

4002
02:04:35,579 --> 02:04:37,739
no shortage of them. With that

4003
02:04:37,739 --> 02:04:39,209
being said, hopefully people

4004
02:04:39,209 --> 02:04:40,949
have a better idea of who Marc

4005
02:04:40,949 --> 02:04:42,749
Middleton is why he probably

4006
02:04:42,749 --> 02:04:44,219
ended up dead but you may have

4007
02:04:44,219 --> 02:04:46,379
more questions and answers just

4008
02:04:46,379 --> 02:04:47,999
like we do. But you know, that's

4009
02:04:47,999 --> 02:04:49,529
how that's how research and

4010
02:04:49,529 --> 02:04:51,119
investigations work you know,

4011
02:04:51,149 --> 02:04:52,619
it's it takes time to get to the

4012
02:04:52,619 --> 02:04:53,939
bottom of stuff, especially when

4013
02:04:53,939 --> 02:04:55,259
multiple administration's are

4014
02:04:55,259 --> 02:04:56,879
trying to keep you from finding

4015
02:04:56,879 --> 02:04:59,729
out about it. So again, F for

4016
02:04:59,729 --> 02:05:02,339
people are interested in hearing

4017
02:05:02,369 --> 02:05:03,749
updates about the book or

4018
02:05:03,779 --> 02:05:04,799
knowing about updates about the

4019
02:05:04,799 --> 02:05:06,209
book or following my work, you

4020
02:05:06,209 --> 02:05:06,929
can go to unlimited

4021
02:05:06,929 --> 02:05:09,059
hangout.com/newsletters Sign up

4022
02:05:09,059 --> 02:05:10,349
for our newsletter, at the

4023
02:05:10,349 --> 02:05:11,639
bottom of all our newsletters is

4024
02:05:11,639 --> 02:05:13,049
info about how to purchase the

4025
02:05:13,049 --> 02:05:14,879
book, either in a bundle form to

4026
02:05:14,879 --> 02:05:17,429
get both volumes for a reduced

4027
02:05:17,429 --> 02:05:18,779
price or where to buy one or two

4028
02:05:18,779 --> 02:05:20,579
separately. The best way in

4029
02:05:20,579 --> 02:05:21,719
general, especially if you want

4030
02:05:21,719 --> 02:05:22,619
the bundle is just to go

4031
02:05:22,619 --> 02:05:23,879
straight to the publisher, which

4032
02:05:23,879 --> 02:05:27,719
is trying de A T ri in e de.com.

4033
02:05:27,899 --> 02:05:28,919
And if you go to upcoming

4034
02:05:28,919 --> 02:05:30,059
releases, you might have to go

4035
02:05:30,059 --> 02:05:31,559
to the second page. But you can

4036
02:05:31,559 --> 02:05:33,359
find the the bundle there for

4037
02:05:33,359 --> 02:05:34,709
sale as well as volumes one and

4038
02:05:34,709 --> 02:05:36,569
two. You can also buy on Amazon

4039
02:05:36,569 --> 02:05:37,889
or you know any other number of

4040
02:05:37,889 --> 02:05:38,999
places, but the bundle is

4041
02:05:38,999 --> 02:05:40,019
definitely going to be the most

4042
02:05:40,019 --> 02:05:42,449
cost effective. And soon there's

4043
02:05:42,449 --> 02:05:44,099
going to be an ebook and audio

4044
02:05:44,129 --> 02:05:47,759
book version available. So that

4045
02:05:47,759 --> 02:05:49,169
may be most cost effective for

4046
02:05:49,169 --> 02:05:50,279
some people, because that's both

4047
02:05:50,279 --> 02:05:51,959
volumes together. But that will

4048
02:05:51,959 --> 02:05:53,789
be available after the physical

4049
02:05:53,789 --> 02:05:55,259
copies out. So if you're

4050
02:05:55,259 --> 02:05:56,819
particularly eager to read the

4051
02:05:56,819 --> 02:05:59,549
book, you may have to settle for

4052
02:05:59,549 --> 02:06:01,079
the physical copy. But I

4053
02:06:01,079 --> 02:06:02,639
personally like physical copies.

4054
02:06:02,669 --> 02:06:03,869
It's nice to hold the book and

4055
02:06:03,869 --> 02:06:04,949
not have to look at a screen

4056
02:06:05,159 --> 02:06:07,439
while you're reading relatively

4057
02:06:07,439 --> 02:06:10,589
dense text about the criminal

4058
02:06:10,589 --> 02:06:11,909
syndicates in their history that

4059
02:06:11,909 --> 02:06:14,759
run our world. So again, thanks

4060
02:06:14,759 --> 02:06:17,699
everyone for listening. And

4061
02:06:17,729 --> 02:06:19,739
hopefully, if you're if you

4062
02:06:19,739 --> 02:06:22,289
found this informative, since no

4063
02:06:22,289 --> 02:06:23,459
one else is really covering

4064
02:06:23,459 --> 02:06:24,719
work, Middleton feel free to

4065
02:06:24,719 --> 02:06:25,949
share this widely with people

4066
02:06:25,949 --> 02:06:28,229
you think might be interested in

4067
02:06:28,229 --> 02:06:30,179
these kinds of topics. And yeah,

4068
02:06:30,239 --> 02:06:31,769
so thanks everyone and catch you

4069
02:06:31,769 --> 02:06:32,309
all next time.