Hey, you're listening
to Unlimited Hangout. I'm your
host Whitney Webb. Earlier this
year in May, a former Clinton
White House staffer allegedly
took his own life under
exceedingly shady circumstances.
Mark Middleton, the former top
aide to Clinton's Chief of Staff
Thomas Mack McLarty was found
dead at a property tied to
Heifer International, an NGO
with direct ties to the Clinton
quote unquote philanthropies.
Middleton was found with an
extension cord around his neck
and a shot got wound to the
chest. Photos and video taken at
the death scene were sealed by
an Arkansas court shortly after
news broke of Middleton staff.
Notably, just a few months
prior, it had been revealed that
Middleton had been the man who
had met with Jeffrey Epstein
during the vast majority of
Epstein 17 visits to the White
House. It had previously been
reported that Epstein had met
with Middleton around five times
at the White House, but visitor
logs released by the UK Daily
Mail last December revealed that
the actual number was much much
higher. Around that same time in
December of last year, the Daily
Mail also published a photograph
of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine
Maxwell greetings and President
Clinton back in 1993,
effectively eradicating the
narrative that Clinton had not
met Jeffrey Epstein until after
he had left the White House.
Tellingly, hardly any American
media outlet covered the story,
including news of Middleton
subsequent gruesome death. So
who exactly was Mark Middleton
and what was his role at the
White House? And why was he
meeting with Epstein and
exploring these questions? As
I've noted in some recent
interviews, the riddle of Mark
Middleton gets very complicated
and very crazy very quickly. To
briefly summarize, well over a
decade before Epstein's first
arrest in 2006, Middletons had
sat in the center of a massive
scandal of the Clinton era,
which today is largely
forgotten. It was the subject of
a major Congressional
investigation that continued
from the last years of the
Clinton administration and into
the administration of George W.
Bush. to stall that
investigation. It was Bush, not
Clinton, who stepped in invoking
for the first time in his
presidency executive privilege,
precisely to prevent documents
about none other than Mark
Middleton from being handed over
to Congress. Shortly thereafter,
the events of September 11 2001
led to the premature closure of
that investigation due to more
pressing matters that arose in
the aftermath of those attacks.
Joining me today to help unravel
the mysteries of Mark Middleton
is Edie Berger, and worked as my
research assistant for my soon
to be released to volume book
one nation under blackmail,
which explores the union between
organized crime and intelligence
that later gave rise to Jeffrey
Epstein, and much more. He is
one of the most incredible and
detailed researchers I've ever
had the pleasure of knowing. And
it's fair to say that the book
would not have been finished on
time or be nearly as good as it
is without his very important
contributions, and also co hosts
the pseudo doxology podcast,
which I highly recommend if you
are interested in original, and
ultra deep dives about the real
history of this country and
beyond. So thanks for joining me
today, Edie? How's it going?
Hey, it's not going too bad. And
thanks for that awesome
introduction. Yeah, of course.
Well, I think you're super
awesome. And there is no one I
would rather be talking about
Mark Middleton with. I know,
in part of that's because he's a
really complicated guy. And you
are one of the very one of the
few people I think that is
capable of, you know, helping
unravel a lot of that
complexity, especially on this
topic, and we work together on a
good bit of this. So you know,
it just makes the most logical
sense. So I guess I'm, to get
started, we should probably try
and go back as far as we we
could really about into who Marc
Middleton is to sort of try and
demystify what was going on here
in the Clinton White House
during the time he was there,
and in the years, you know,
between Ben and his untimely
death earlier this year. So um,
so as far as we know, you know,
like I said earlier in the
introduction, Middleton was
working as a special assistant
to Thomas Mack McLarty. He was
allegedly hired by McClarty for
that role because he was
McClarty was so impressed with
his fundraising bundling efforts
for the Clinton presidential
campaign in 1992. But before
that, it's really hard to find
out what Middleton was exactly
doing, though. One article from
the 90s in the Los Angeles Times
did reveal that Middleton was
working at Worthen Bank, which
is an institution we'll get into
in a moment. And one of the
people he was working at at
Worthen Bank is a guy we'll be
talking about later, who was
central to the aforementioned
major Clinton era scandal that
Middleton was in the center of a
man named John Huang. So and I
think it might be fitting if you
would do the, the honors of
explaining why we're than bank
and you know, is significant and
also sort of, I guess, unpacking
the people behind that
institution because they're
basically the people behind, I
guess you can say basically.
Yeah, yeah.
It's funny because like, trying
to think of how to do it in the
most, like short and streamlined
way because more than bank could
be like its own. Kinda. Yeah,
yeah, it's it there's a lot
that's quite mysterious about it
like in itself, but guess like
to understand where then bank we
kind of have to understand a
figure by the name of Jackson
Stevens. And Jackson Stevens was
like an Arkansas like
businessman who had these like
very vast and like deep
political connections. So like
you can find, like Stephens
fingerprints behind Jimmy
Carter, who he knew from, like,
his time in the US Naval Academy
in the 40s had ties to the
Reagan administration. He was a
massive backer of Bush, and then
finally, was a big backer of the
Clintons. And Stevens. His main
vehicle was a company called
Stevens Inc. And what this did
is it kind of started off
investing in oil and gas, mainly
in Arkansas, and elsewhere in
the South and in the Midwest,
but very quickly, it developed,
you know, these like really far
reaching economic ties to, you
know, financial capital, you
know, in the northeast and Wall
Street. It provided financing
for the startup, numerous
businesses, like it was very
involved in initially backing
Walmart actually, which is
funny, like Hillary Clinton
later was involved with them,
too. Yeah, yeah. She
sat on the board for I think it
was like seven years or
something. Yeah. And the reason
like there's like a connection
as because kind of, for the
duration of when Stevens Inc was
really big. It utilizes the
service of like Arkansas's most
prominent law firm, and that was
the Rose Law Firm. And since the
early 70s, that have been led by
a man named Joseph, G. Ra, I
think is how it's pronounced.
Yeah. And this kind of was like
the hub for a lot of like their
rising Clinton political and
economic fortunes. So I figured
that you would find at Rose Law
would be like, Hillary Clinton
herself was like a junior
partner there. Webster Hubbell,
who would later become Bill
Clinton's Associate Attorney
General was there. And Vince
Foster, who was Clinton's White
House Counsel, was also there
for a time yeah, for a time for
a very, very suspicious kind of,
you know, and much like Mark
Middleton, yes. But in all these
individuals, they had all kinds
of very kind of convoluted
business relations, kind of
starting in the 70s. And going
like through, you know,
basically, all the way like all
the way up through the 1990s.
But I think when we start
talking about kind of like the
deep political connections of
Stephens and how it gets
relevant to like, the, you know,
the kind of the topics that
we're going to move into has to
be understood in relation to
BCCI. You know, this big kind of
CIA linked bank that right, I
don't even really know how to,
like, describe what Well, I
can I can I know, it's it's
basically like an octopus, in a
sense. And it's no coincidence
that the only castlewellan the
journalist who died in 1991, he
was investigating the octopus
and BCCI was really central to
his investigation. So basically,
I guess I would, it's the Bank
of credit and commerce
International, but it was pretty
notorious for a long time. And I
think it eventually hadn't like
banks, Bank of corruption,
corruption, internet, I don't
know some big names like that
floated around it for some time.
It so basically, it was a hub
for money laundering on a
massive scale, but they were
also involved in a lot of other
stuff like sex trafficking, arms
trafficking, as a bank, right.
So they were obviously much more
as a bank. I mean, it's really
like an intelligence apparatus
masquerading as a bank.
They were described as having
like, what was it called, like a
black network or something where
they allegedly had hitmen? And
yeah, I mean, they had
everything. I mean, yeah. So
it's, it's super mental. BCCI
once you get into it anyway,
anyway, the bank part of it
collapsed in 1991. And that was
the year of course that you have
Bill Barr as Attorney General.
under Bush basically stepped in
to cover up that the PROMIS
software scandal, in part and
all the people in Iran Contra
all in the same year. Very big
year for cover ups. It's also
the year that Robert Maxwell
dies from the PROMIS software
scandal. John Tower has been
accomplished and promised is
Danny Castle arrow diocese
investigating it and Castle
arrows one of his main and
sources. Allen standoff also
I'll die at 91. I mean, it's a
really mental year. When you
think about it, so anyway,
we know from like FBI files that
have been released that they're
like investigators into BCCI
we're very interested, and
Castle arrow and the PROMIS
software.
So we'll get into why these BCCI
investigators were into
interested in Castle arrows
investigation, because there is
a lot of overlap with, you know,
the promise scandal, which,
again, I'll summarize briefly
and BCCI because the main, you
know, connection there, I would
argue would be, you know, one of
the main other main companies of
Jackson Stevens, just
systematics but we'll get there.
Eventually. So, um, I guess when
it comes to Jackson Stevens,
we're trying to talk about Mark
Middleton here. And so, you
know, we brought up with BCCI
was, so I guess the most logical
point now would be to explain
what was Jackson Stephens
relationship to BCCI. And as I
understand it, that comes up
when BCCI starts trying to
penetrate the US financial
system.
Yeah, exactly. So the BCCI was
kind of looking for a way and
the way to do this was to buy up
a bank, and then kind of do this
in kind of an incognito mode, I
guess, because they were
violating US banking
regulations. And so the main
connection here comes through a
guy named Bert Lance, who was
kind of like a infamously
corrupt, short lived Director of
the Office of Budget and
Management under Carter. And
prior to working in the Carter
administration. Lance was the
president of a bank in Atlanta,
called the National Bank of
Georgia. And National Bank of
Georgia was owned by a bank
holding company in Washington DC
called first gen bank shares or
FGB. And FTB itself is like
really kind of interesting,
because at the time, it was
owned by this guy named General
George Olmstead. And this
individual has a really long
history of like ties to US
intelligence and other banks
that he owned, were very kind of
tied in to the US intelligence,
kind of like offshore apparatus.
But due to like, changes that
were made in holding company
laws, Olmstead was being forced
to sell off his ownership of
first gen bank shares. And he
turned to the president of the
subsidiary, Bert Lance to help
find a buyer. And so we don't
really know how Stevens and
Lance kind of got hooked up, we
know that it happened around
1975. And so Lance turned to
Stevens, you know, to help him
like locate, you know, who's
gonna buy, you know, not just
first gen, but National Bank of
Georgia as well. And so they
start courting, you know,
various individuals and groups,
like the first group was called
the Middendorf group. This was
named for Nixon's former
ambassador to the Netherlands
getting Jane Middendorf. He was
a leader of the group and then
included Armand Hammer, who is a
pretty spooky oil, man.
Yeah, he comes up in the book a
lot. Yeah, he's everywhere.
And I think, you know, I think
there's a lot more to probably
like, kind of find with him,
because it's just he's rather
witness. Yeah. And so that group
fell apart. And Stevens and
Lance started to look into other
groups. And so they, somehow I'm
not exactly sure, but they like
this happened simultaneously
with BCCI. Looking to buy a US
Bank and these two kinds, I
mean, obviously, it's probably
through the US intelligence
services, these two groups kind
of collided. And so that's how
Stevens kind of gets wrapped up
into the world of BCCI. But at
the same time that this was
happening, there were other
people who are interested in
buying the National Bank of
Georgia, the Bert Lance bank.
And chief amongst them was a
group of bankers from Indonesia,
the riadi family and the
patriarch of this family.
Mokhtar riadi, the head of you
know, what's most, probably like
the flagship is the lipo group.
And Lance had known riadi for
some time, been introduced to
them by a guy named Robert B.
Anderson, who is this really
kind of like, prominent figure
from the Eisenhower era. You
know, they thought he would be
president at one point. But by
the end of the life, he was kind
of mired in corruption and
linked all kinds of like BCCI
entities. But this is pretty
like interesting in itself
because Anderson was part of a
group that was known as like the
Hardy Boys, and the Hardy Boys
for a kind of clique of
intelligence linked businessmen
around the world. am Casey
Reagan CIA director, and if you
start like kind of pulling back,
like the lid on the Hardy Boys,
you find that a lot of them
actually were very tied up with
Indonesia, like Casey himself.
If you look at his confirmation
hearings, there were allegations
that he acted as a foreign agent
for Indonesian interests and
failed to disclose this. And so,
you know, there's a very strong
possibility that this whole
connection to the realities, you
know, coming through Robert B,
Anderson, was connected up with
like a wider US intelligence,
Indonesia relationship. But at
any rate, you know, the
realities ended up not buying
National Bank of Georgia ended
up going to BCCI interests,
ultimately, at the same time,
they were buying versus general.
But Stevens and the reality has
kind of stayed in close contact
with one another. And as you go
from like, the 1970s, into the
1980s, they really begin to
develop a really strong banking
network, not just in Arkansas,
but in in Asia proper. So like
together, Stevens Inc, and
Riyadh, he's Lippo group by this
like bank in Macau that had
these like very kind of
notorious ties to triad gangs.
Yeah. And just to interrupt you
really quick, sorry, I think
it's important to point out to
for people that don't know,
Macau was basically like Las
Vegas. But yes, like the East
Asian version of that. It at the
time, it wasn't tech, it was
sort of like Hong Kong, you
know, it was like an enclave
originally Portuguese. And it
came under Chinese control after
the events we're going to talk
about today. But Macau comes up
a couple times. Because, you
know, one of the main themes in
the book, right is organized
crime and intelligence coming
together. And in China. You see
that sort of happening with
Macau businessman, to a
significant degree as well. So
anyway, I'll let you pick back
up where you were.
No, I think that's a really good
like thing to point out. And I
guess one of the things that
made Macau like so unique in the
area that you're talking about,
is that it was the major center
for like big global gold trade
in the time period, you know,
like before 1972, and like it
was hyper regulated. And so
there's lots of illicit like, it
was kind of like a big money
laundering hub. And the bank
that Stevens in reality bought,
it's just called like the
saying, hey, bank, it was like
the premier like gold, like
laundering bank. So, you know,
there's like questions like, Why
did they buy this particular
bank, but the same year that
they bought this bank, this
Macao bank, they also took
control of what's called the
first Arkansas bank stock
corporation, or fabco, for
short. And it was the bank
holding company that was owned
by a Texas oilman named John
Hendricks. And he was out of
Midland Bank. And from what I
can tell, I've been looking more
into him. He seems to have like
banking ties to the Bush family.
So that's interesting in itself.
But he sold this one. Yeah, of
course, of course. So he sold
fabco to Stevens and the
realities and fabco had numerous
Arkansas banks that were kind of
like, under under its umbrella.
Like, for example, one of them
was a First National Bank of
Mena, Arkansas, which I think is
particularly interesting,
because this is where, you know,
like that kind of CIA who was
running cocaine into this town.
Yeah, the Barry seal MENA
connection and all of that
stuff. I'm pretty sure most
listeners of this podcast are
familiar with that. If not, you
can read the book. Because we're
talking
about it. It's a great chapter
on it. Yeah, so I mean, that's
pretty suspicious. I think that
you had that particular bank.
They use this vehicle to buy
like a number of other banks
like Joseph green or the guy
from the Rose Law Firm. They had
him purchasing other banks and
then like selling them to fabco,
which they now control. So they
created this like, kind of
banking empire in Arkansas. And
the very kind of center of it
was this bank called worden
bank. And we're than bank was
under their control. Rose Law
Firm was like the de facto law
firm that were then used. And so
like it, if you kind of trace
out like the whole web of like
Clinton, business, and political
connections. It's almost like
kind of like a spoke unit or
like a hub in a wheel right,
like Word and bank, just is the
money conduit for like, you
know, it's the glue that kind of
holds it all together as far as
I I can tell, you know, the
center of like this like kind of
Arkansas corruption.
Yeah, with the with Stephens in
reality sort of the center of
it. So all we know about
Middleton right before the
Clinton White House or the
Clinton administration comes
comes to power is that he had
previously worked for word than
bank at some point. So he's
obviously part of this network
of influence, I guess you could
say, Jackson Stevenson in the
Riyadh, these are major power
players behind, you know,
Clinton's time as governor of
Arkansas. And then obviously, in
a big way when he becomes
president as well. So so some
important background to bring up
I think now, arm is related to
Stevens and systematics, and I'm
not gonna go too, in depth about
it, but it is it is, does kind
of give you an idea of like,
what was going on here? And,
again, we don't know exactly
like 100% of what else is going
on here. Right. But the picture
painted by what we know, you
know, pretty much should tell
you more or less what, what the
deal was. So, you know, you
mentioned a little bit ago, and
how they, you know, bought these
big banks in East Asia,
specifically, Macau, and they
were involved in the gold trade
and all of this, but
specifically, Macau was also
known as being a major hub for
money laundering. Part of that's
because of the, you know, like I
made that Las Vegas comparison
earlier. I mean, it's a casino
hub, thinking of people like
Sheldon Adelson. No longer on
the planet. I always like to
remind myself here anymore. It's
nice. So anyway, he had all his
casinos, not all of them, but a
lot of the big ones in Macau,
right. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh,
yeah.
So that's really?
Yeah. So like, you know, it's a
sauce area for casinos. And
people have argued that the
money laundering, you know, the
scale of it, specifically before
China took over Macau, I think
in 1999 or so I mean, the money
that the money laundering was
was totally out of control. So
when we're talking about, you
know, the Stephens in the
realities, it's pretty clear to
me anyway, that they were very
involved with, you know, money
laundering in the banking
system, not just because of the
Macau connection, but you have
BCCI there, and then you have
Systematics. So systematics is
important, because this is a
company that checks and Stephen
controlled, and it basically and
it's also tied up with ROS law
firm. People like Vince Foster
people, you know, individuals
like that. Yeah, yeah. And it's
basically one of the main things
that does is it sell software to
banks, and it's Jackson Stevens
and this whole network. You
know, through these financial
institutions, we already sort of
sort of touched on Mena,
Arkansas, the whole Iran Contra
angle, and what was going on in
Arkansas on the time that also
involved a huge amount of money
laundering that was allegedly
done through Arkansas financial
institutions and some of these
banks linked to Stevens. So at
some point, systematic starts
basically selling the PROMIS
software. Um, I don't I don't
think I've done like a specific
podcast on promise before. And
some of you may or may know of
it, and I've done some recent
interviews about it
specifically, because the
anniversary of Danny Kessler,
Carol's death was like last
month. But another massively
complex scandal to summarize,
we have to give little
thumbnails of like a million
different things to explain.
Yeah, well, I mean, that's the
only way you can understand the
stuff otherwise, it just you
can't see the whole picture, you
know. So absolutely. Basically,
there was an effort by Israeli
intelligence in the CIA to
backdoor this software that was
stolen by the Reagan era Justice
Department from a company called
insulin Inc. and it was called
promise promises an abbreviation
it's something like prosecutor
management information software,
something like that, if I
remember correctly. So at some,
there were two versions of
promise going around that were
backdoored meaning that
intelligence agencies had covert
access to wherever they were
installed. So you had Israel
with their version, and most of
that was marketed by Robert
Maxwell and you know, I guess or
O'Brien and some other people,
mainly to governments,
specifically intelligence
agencies, or security agencies
of governments all over the
world. And there was another
version that was developed at
Wacken hunt in by wack and
Clinton California, which is
another complicated situation to
explain. But basically there's
you know, drug cartels organized
crime and intelligence all tied
up in there. And they backdoor
promise to and then but this
version of promise, it was
mostly sold to banks and one of
the vehicles for selling that to
banks was Systematics. Yeah. And
that in so promise eventually
starts to be used by a lot of
major banking institutions,
including BCCI also, including
the World Bank, and it gets, you
know, again, it gets really
crazy really quickly because you
have people involved in like the
sale of promise for the purpose
of using And finally, in the
financial system, you have
people like Adnan Khashoggi
involved. Yeah, that's weird,
right? You know, like a weapons
dealer and stuff. So like, you
see all these people pop up. And
basically, you know, it, the
What promise was used for was
either was to track stuff. I
mean, that's what it was good
at. So it either track people or
attract money. And so it was
very useful to money launderers
because it allowed them to
launder money more effectively
than ever before. And on a much
bigger scale.
Right. Yeah. And I think like,
the way that I understand
promise is that it was kind of a
modular system that allowed you
to bring together like multiple
different databases. Like Yeah,
so like, that's kind of like how
its tracking capacity work was
by kind of integrating these
databases like siloing them.
Yeah, you could go from like,
one, you know, you'd have that
information you can track it
across. So
anyways, as I see it, it
wherever promised got installed
in the in the financial world,
this mafia or group, you know,
group around Stephens, this web
swamp, whatever you want to call
it, you know, gets access to
these banks, through promise,
there's a backdoor in it, and
they can track it, and they can
launder money, whatever. And so,
you know, and this was pointed
out in the book, too, Epstein
was very much involved with this
world had a relationship with
BCCI. And all of these actors
here. So in this period, you
know, in the 80s, he talked
about how he could help hide or
find looted money. And, you
know, sort of basically like,
doing what what promise was
doing for some other people and
maybe even use promise, I mean,
we don't really know, but he's
definitely swimming around in
this world at the time, right?
So it's significant that you
have Middleton here, you know,
basically swimming in that same
world, and maybe they probably
didn't connect back in the 80s.
But they definitely did in the
in the 90s. And so, you know,
this is some important
background as well as we'll get
into later. So I guess now it's
probably a good time to talk
about what I think is is missing
really a misnomer. But the
scandal that Mark Middleton was
at the center of at the White
House, which overlaps with the
exact same period of time he was
meeting with Epstein is most by
most people remembered as China
Gate. But it's really more
accurately called riadi gate
with Riyadh. He's again standing
for the family of Mokhtar riadi.
And I think, you know, mainly
his son James is the the one
that pops up here a lot. But,
you know, I think that's a much
more accurate name. We can get
into that. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
it's also remember to is like
the illegal finance
contributions scandal or
something because it's contrary
Yeah, yeah. So it it did involve
illegal financing. But there's
obviously a lot more going on.
So I think that's also a
misnomer, because you're
focusing on just Okay, so they
took illegal donations, but
they're not looking at what
happened as a result of those
illegal donations being made.
Right. So yeah, for sure. Yeah.
So we have a lot to get into.
With that being said, so Right.
So Mark Middleton, as I
mentioned earlier, was special
assistant to Mack McLarty, who
was chief of staff for a couple
years and then I think until
like mid 1994, he has a change
in position, he becomes Special
Envoy for the Americas and then
he's like a special adviser,
like counselor to the president.
And Middleton was described as a
former Little Rock lawyer with
ties to Clinton prior to him
becoming president. And we know
he worked at worth and bank we
don't know, as far as I know,
what law firm he was involved
with. Maybe it was Rose Law.
That might make sense.
i It wasn't Rose Law, and I
believe that it was the law firm
that Jim guy Tucker worked at,
and this was Clinton's by kids,
Lieutenant Governor, and then
who succeeded him as governor.
But it's funny because Jim guy
Tucker actually got his career
started at Rose Law. So
still, sort of like a satellite
for maybe in terms. Yeah, yeah.
This network? Yeah. So he was
indicted as part of the
whitewater investigations. I
think he did jail time for it.
Yeah. Okay. Well, make sense.
Yeah. A lot of these people
should be in jail. So as I
mentioned earlier, Epstein
visited the White House about a
lot of his early visits were
involved. The first one was
involved involved, Robert Rubin,
who later goes on to be treasury
secretary under Clinton. And
then the other two meetings in
1993 involve this donor
reception to the White House
Historical Association, which is
interesting for other reasons,
but we're not getting into that
today. Because that is like
another whole hive of insanity.
So anyway, most of the visits
took place in in 1994, in the
last one was January 1995. So
most of these visits are taking
place. So in a relatively short
period of time, and several of
these visits at will not
several, but on a couple of
them, you know, there's two, he
goes twice to the White House
and one day, I think on three
separate times throughout 19
interest. So he's going pretty
regularly. And this is the same
year, while Really 9090 4096 At
the, you know, the
coconspirators of quote unquote
China Gate are also going in
meeting with Middleton. So, when
it came up more recently, as I
mentioned earlier in the intro,
the Daily Mail was the people
were it was the outlet that was
reporting on Middleton's
meetings with Epstein. And they
quoted a guy that was familiar
with Middleton's role at the
White House as saying that Mark
Middleton knew that Epstein was
managing Leslie Wexner as money.
And he says next 94 was when
they were dealing with midterm
elections, and Mark Middleton
thought he gets some some of
Wexler has money to benefit the
DNC, right. So this is
important, because as you know,
we mentioned a little bit ago,
this whole scandal that
Middleton becomes involved in is
allegedly about illegal
financing, but it's really a lot
more than that. And so we have
to keep all this in mind when
we're trying to demystify what I
was doing there. But another one
of these people that was really
involved in illegal financing,
and who was very much involved
in this swamp of Jackson
Stevens, and the reality family
is a guy named John Huang, or
Johnny Huang, I guess he was
referred to in the media as a
lot. And he also raised a lot of
illegal funds for the DNC for
that particular election cycle.
Yeah. So how long has this
really long banking career
before he ends up, you know, in
this kind of bizarre web around
the Clinton White House, and I
tried to really trace it back,
there's lots of kinds of gaps
and unexplained areas, like we
know, he went to the University
of Connecticut, studying
business relations there, he
became the head of like, a US
China student body. At that
time, there's really no details
about that. But during the
1970s, he moved to DC, where he
took a job at a little known
bank called the American
security bank. And it's really
hard to find many details at
all, you know, there's two
places where you can find
information about this bank, one
of them is the campaign finance
controversy documents, the other
turns out to be like in a lot of
the BCCI documents that are
declassified. We know that this
was the bank that was used by
the Chinese Embassy in DC, but
particularly interesting, I
think, is its role that it
played in BCCI as penetration of
the US banking system. So you
know, like we talked earlier
about this financial general
bank shares the, this was the
bank that BCCI took over. After
they took it over. They took the
bank like public and, you know,
kind of I sold shares have been
on the open market. And when
people bought shares of
financial general, they had to
do it through two banks. One of
them, of course, was Chase
Manhattan, and then the other
was American security bank. So
long, you know, the time in
which he was at American
security bank actually overlaps
kind of perfectly in time, with,
you know, its interactions with
BCCI. After American security
bank, he moved to Kentucky,
where he joined the
international division of a bank
called First National Bank of
Louisville. And this bank is
like, really fascinating. Their
mental. Yeah, there's a lot
going on there briefly. You
know, it's in the book a little
bit. But one of the things that
I think's pretty significant
about them, and especially their
international division, is that
they were partnered with a bank
from St. Louis, and just kind of
curious outfit called the world
Finance Corporation. And they
launched this bank in Panama
called Unibank, which they used
to make loans to Colombia's
agricultural sector. Now this
might well because yeah, World
Finance Corporation was run by
former CIA trained Cuban exiles.
And it was a front for like a
massive cocaine laundering, like
cocaine running and money
laundering operation. If you can
look at court documents about
this and like, you have like
attorney generals like state AGs
quitting saying like the CIA is
not letting us prosecute this
bank. And you would actually
found ties between, you know,
World Finance Corporation and
like Leslie Next nurse circle.
Yeah, that's kind of a
interesting kind of connection
to world Finance Corporation
when it kind of fell apart,
right in the time period when
how long is that first national
global, some of its apparatuses
were then purchased by BCCI. And
so after this whole long moves
to a bank in Memphis, called a
union planters bank. And this is
a bank that had like, kind of
extensive ties into Arkansas,
just like where the elite of
Arkansas would bank even though
it is in Tennessee, recent
recently learned that this was
another bank, there was a very
closely tied to BCCI. And also
was particularly involved in its
purchasing first general bank
shares. And so like, I didn't
really realize this before until
I was kind of sitting down and
like, you know, kind of going
over my notes for this episode.
And I was like, Oh, this is
really weird, because it's like,
you have American security bank.
It's like linked to BCCI. You
have First National Bank of
Louisville, it's tied up with
the world Finance Corporation
and kind of like BCCI by
extension, you know, union
plans, its BCCI. Again, it's
when he's at Union planters,
where he allegedly just like, by
chance, meets James riadi, who
has Mokhtar riadi son, but like,
kind of going back and looking
at this. I'm starting to kind of
doubt that story.
I mean, they lie a lot about
when they first met.
Yeah, I think I found like
inconsistencies across time.
Like, you know, there's a story
that they met in Hong Kong,
there's a story that they met in
Arkansas, the years are
different, but it's like, yeah,
there's a shared history. It's
really strange. Whatever is
going on there, I think.
Yeah, definitely something that
should have been investigated by
Congress, but wasn't when they
were looking into how long but
you know, it's fine. So anyway,
after that, thank you mentioned
one ends up relocating to Hong
Kong. And he's still working for
union planters. Yeah. At their
Far East Branch, and then he
got, you know, after that he
ends up in having having met
James riadi. He goes to work for
the family, and I think 1985 And
so I think if I'm not mistaken,
that's when he joined Worthen
bank. Yeah,
yeah, he like he worked as like
a representative of Lippo group
like interests. That's how it's
described. And then he Yeah, he
goes to work for were then in
Arkansas. And this is where he
allegedly I think meets Mark
Middleton.
Allegedly so well, that's from
the Los Angeles Times. So you
know, I they don't really say
much else about it. Except
that's how long Middleton and
Huang have known each other. But
yeah, so apparently, that's when
they met. So a couple years
later, I think 9919 86 He goes
and works like Huang sorry, goes
to work formerly for the riadi
family. She goes to work for
lipo bank, a lot of the riadi
family companies like you
mentioned earlier and you know,
the lipo group, lipo bank, lipo
land, you know, they tend to all
begin with LiPo with two Ps. By
the way, I didn't
even realize that lipo land was
a real like, I just thought it
was like a funny nickname. The
press came down
sounds like the worst theme park
of all time. Yeah, so anyway, he
comes, um, you know, he goes to
formally basically work for the
realities. And then I guess gets
involved in another bank in
which the realities are heavily
invested called bank, Central
Asia. And then he goes to I
think, la in California, and
then he starts running basically
the US branch of the Lippo group
for the realities,
which has extensive real estate
holdings in California,
apparently.
Right. And that came up with the
the DNC stuff, too. I don't know
if you want to get into that or
not, when they the some of the
the groups that were making
donations through Hwang to the
DNC in the in the 92 election.
Yeah, it was just like, there's
like a number of these kind of
strange little front groups that
have long seems to have been
kind of managing, which then
were used to make these like
very extensive donations to
these like little apparatuses
that the DNC set up. So like,
for example, one of them like
the DNC had this thing called
the Victory Fund, which I'm not
exactly sure what that is, per
se. But another like there was a
front company called like, hip
hinging holdings and so like,
you know, they would use these
various little companies to move
money into these DNC things like
hip kings holdings, your gave,
like, is it like 60,000 or
50,000? Think it was 50,000.
Yeah. 50,000 to the Victory
Fund. And so this was seemed to
have happened pretty much, very
consistently through all through
1992 and 1993. And I guess it's
important to mention that the
head of the DNC at this time was
the guy named Ron Brown, who Ron
Brown, talking a lot about and a
little bit, I think,
yeah, probably so. Yeah. So I
think it's also important to
mention to you that Hwang in the
same period of time, is also
involved in the efforts of the
riadi family to rescue BCCI as
Hong Kong branch.
That's a really Yeah, that's an
important point, as
well, that becomes important
later. And then he also as part
of the same campaign cycle,
plans, a Hong Kong portion of
the trip, but in the DNC notes,
they call it the Hong Kong lipo
portion of the trip of a DNC
delegation. And so the head of
that delegation, again, is DNC
chairman, Ron Brown. And Ron
Brown is very important, because
he is he, you know, once Clinton
comes into office, he becomes
Secretary of Commerce. And he's
basically the main target, quote
unquote, of China Gate. Yeah. Or
riadi. Gate. I guess we should
just start calling it because
yeah, I really do think that
works better. Yeah. I'm just
used to, like, you know, that's
the only way when the only
people that talk about this
stuff, call it China Gate. So
it's just kind of like, you
know, even though it's a
misnomer, it sort of gets stuck
in your brain that way. So I
will unstick that and just call
it we'll just call it reality
gate for the rest of the
podcast. So anyway, so
basically, all one does all this
stuff. And in this he's a very
busy 1991. Yeah, with trying to
rescue BCCI Hong Kong and making
all these shady donations to the
DNC that sort of foreshadow what
he does later in the the
controversial 1996 cycle,
intimately involving Mark
Middleton, and somewhere, Huang.
You know, after Clinton wins the
election, Wong is basically
rewarded for his services, he
gets a top secret security
clearance while he's still a
private citizen, which is pretty
nuts. And then he also, you
know, this was allegedly Because
Ron Brown now as head of the
Commerce Department had a quote
critical need for his meaning
Huang's expertise. And that's
pretty mental. Yeah. Yeah. So we
can get into this a little bit
later. But to wrap up while I'm
here, it's important to say
that, you know, he gets this top
security clearance, and he's
doing some other weird stuff.
Like he's making all these weird
trips to Stevens inks
headquarters in DC. Around the
same time, he gets put in a
position at the Commerce
Department under Ron Brown. And
what's also pretty weird about
it is that there's records from
the DNC of a lady named I guess
her first name is melee melee,
Tom is her name. And so she used
to work for the DNC, but right
after Clinton's elected, she's
hired by the radiant reality
family to be the reality
family's personal liaison to the
DNC to the Democrats. Right.
Yeah. And so Tom writes to the
DNC and says, recommends one for
a job and calls one quote, the
reality family's top priority
for placement because he is like
one of their own.
Yeah. And very much like an
agent for them. That's totally
he's, you know, more than a spy
for quote unquote, China, it's
just a front for the realities
anyway. So reality gate. So that
at the same time that melee
Thomas, you know, requesting
that junk bond gets put in the
Commerce Department, there's
also efforts to put James riadi
himself and something involved
with the Commerce Department, or
specifically a commissioner
advisory board involved with
international trade or
international banking. And
that's pretty significant, too.
So anyway, how long eventually
gets his position though, James
Riyadh, he doesn't, but he does
end up being involved a lot with
Huang and the other main co
conspirator of riadi gate, who's
a guy named Charlie tree that
we'll get to in a second here.
But one basically gets approved
for a position at Commerce, he
is going to be a Principal
Deputy Assistant Secretary for
International Economic Policy at
the ITA, which is the
International Trade
Administration. And to circle
back to something really odd
there. The ita was involved with
another company named Arkansas
Systems tied to systematics that
was selling possibly suspect
bank software to China's central
banking system. And, you know,
this was basically enabled by
the ITA that was being
infiltrated by real agents of
the reality family at the same
time. So anyway, I'm not going
to get too into that tangent,
but it's worth mentioning about
this whole idea of the
penetration of the financial
system by these particular
groups like the reality Stevens
network and all of that. So it
seems like that this was one of
the reasons they were involved
in targeting this, you know, the
Commerce Department specific
quickly. So anything you want to
add Edie? Yeah,
with Arkansas Systems, I just
wanted to mention that they were
like financed by this thing that
had been set up in Arkansas, it
was called the ad FA, or the
Arkansas Development Finance
Authority. And this entity was
very much like Clinton's kind of
flagship and grown out of an
earlier Housing Development
Authority. But what it was kind
of about was like, economic
development and business growth
and kind of very tech
orientation, you know, it's
going to finance innovation hubs
and science hubs. And it was the
very kind of like, insidious,
like intertwining of public and
private sector interests. And
the way that it would work is it
would sell tax exempt bonds,
which were underwritten by
private companies, and this
would like generate a capital
pool, which would then be
converted into like low interest
loans for businesses. And so
when you go back into the
history, and you look at a lot
of the documents about the ADFA,
Stevens Inc, was one of the
primary underwriters that they
used for these bonds that they
would issue and further loans
were then bank would often be
the trustee on the loans. And so
and then if you'd like, look, a
lot of the recipients, you know,
it's always you look at any ADFA
recipient, you're going to find
out that, like they use the Rose
Law Firm, and Stephens Inc, is
the majority shareholder and
whatever excellently
like that, yeah. Yeah.
So it's like, it's very
consistent with this pattern.
And so you're talking about
Arkansas Systems, you know, as
you start, like, tracing it
back, like, that's where it
comes from, in the first place?
Like, yes, kind of like, you can
just go in these endless like
loops with all these companies
and their ties.
Really, though, I mean, it's,
it's nuts. I mean, there was so
much like, couldn't go in the
book, because it was just like,
too insane. Yeah, I
have like, hundreds of pages of
like, dark, you know, notes I
wrote, like, I felt like I was
going crazy when we were
researching this stuff,
or no, it really is crazy. So
anyway, to not make people's
brains fall out of their heads.
We'll try and keep it relatively
simple. As much as we can.
Anyway. So you know, this
particular part of the Congress
department that along was that
ITA, right, so let's recap
really quick, hot Huang engages
in the shady stuff with the DNC,
he gets top security clearance.
He's basically an agent of the
reality family while they're,
you know, the ITA approves
these. The suspect sale of
Arkansas Systems software does
the Central Bank of China.
They're also involved in a lot
of tech transfer stuff to the
former Soviet Union, as well,
which is relevant to other stuff
in the book that we're not
getting into today. But about
not that long after Juan was
there at the ITA, he's he's
getting classified information
relating to China, specifically
the ITA that he apparently
wasn't supposed to have. He was
supposed to recuse himself from
any matters involving Indonesia,
because he's so basically tied
up with the reality family. And
he ended up not recusing himself
from issues dealing with
Indonesia. And he's very
involved with Ron Brown's trade
missions to Asia, specifically
in on one trade mission that
happened not that long after
Hong Kong joined the ITA. Ron
Brown goes to China and he
returns with a big plan, I
guess. What is it a power plant
project? It was financed by the
Lippo group and was going to be
managed by some Arkansas
connected firm called inter G
Corp. Yeah.
Well, what's also interesting
about Entergy, I was looking at
this a little bit. They were
very intertwined with Enron at
this time, and yeah, the
Enron stuff also, like, you
know, why why this book was
happening? It was like, oh, man,
now I understand Enron so much
more. Yeah. This stuff, you
know,
it was one of those things that
just came up repeatedly. But I
just wanted to like mention that
because when Ron Brown was doing
a lot of these trips, he was
traveling with Ken Lay a lot who
was the CEO of Enron. So that's
like a whole other component
of this, ya know, the Enron
stuff is mental, but that's, you
know, for another time, yeah. So
another thing along starts doing
when he's at the Commerce
Department, aside from this
stuff, where he seems to be
acting as a reagent for the
realities he has, like all these
top security clearances,
clearances he's not supposed to
have and I can't remember if I
mentioned this or not, but other
people at the ITA thought one
was like, not qualified at all
for the work he was supposed to
be doing. So it's clearly like
a, you know, a favor to the
realities that he's there in the
first place. And I guess, the
Stephens family as well,
because, you know, he's making
all these weird trips to Steven
inks, offices, and no one knows
why.
Like, from what I could glean
from a lot of the documents is
that the office in Steven Inc
was which these are the Stephens
Inc, like headquarters in DC
it's and I think it's already
kind of suss that it's like,
across the street from the
Commerce Department. It's a
basically like, he had his own
office in there. And they like
to interview other people at
work in those offices, like,
what's wrong doing in there? And
everybody's like, I don't know
what he's doing. But he was
there all the time. Apparently.
Yeah. So what was he doing? I
don't know, Congress didn't find
out.
Anyone. In fact, they kind of
like, you know, it's something
that we're interested in. See,
they act very uninterested.
They're just like, oh, you know,
it's just a place where he gets,
you know, verbs quiet from to
work.
Like, yeah, yeah, it's like they
write about it in the report.
Like, it's just a little weird
quirk about what it's like, this
seems seriously sauces. Fuck,
like,
I think it's very clearly one of
the more important things
actually.
Yeah, you know, so Well, anyway,
let's get into some of the stuff
they actually did look into.
Right. So as you know, the
election season start to pick up
this 94 to 96 period. There's
midterms and there's then the
coming reelection campaign. How
long start soliciting
contributions to the DNC while
he's still at the Commerce
Department, which is illegal.
And then he basically, all these
people at the DNC start to be
lobbied to hire one directly.
And one of these people is Josie
Joseph gerar, who's the former
head of the Rose Law Firm you
mentioned earlier, by this
point. He's one of the main
business partners of the US in
the United States. Yeah, totally
mental. And he's he's one of the
main people that starts lobbying
the DNC, the higher Kuang,
basically, after he donates,
like several grand like to the
DNC, and he's like, You should
hire one. And then also lobbying
for Juan to be hired at the DNC
was Mark Middleton at that point
in time. So at some point in
this period to period Milton and
Hwang are already linked up in
Huang and riadi start to meet
each other really frequently. I
think in the same period that
we're talking about here, it's
95 times so way more than the
amount of times he met with
Epstein. I mean, obviously,
they're meeting like, probably a
couple times a week, or
something like that, or even
once a week or something like
that, I guess this is a little
longer span than than Epstein's
time visiting. And at the same
time, James riadi, is also
meeting with Middleton. But
that's 20 visits. And some some
of these visits were calling in
riadi. Together, meeting with
Middleton, and a couple of
occasions riadi was meeting
directly with with Clinton and
Hwang accompanied him. And
there's not a lot is known about
those meetings, including the
ones with Middleton, allegedly
from what we do know and what
Congress gathered, it was
related to China trade issues
and granting China MFN status or
most favored trade, most favored
nation trading status. And this
seems to be one of the main
potential reasons behind quote
unquote riadi gate, because
Clinton had originally campaigns
that he was going to oppose MFN
status for China over its human
rights record, right. And then
he reverses his stance on that.
And then a year later in 1994, D
links MFN status from China's
human rights record.
Yeah. And I, you know, I don't
think this was something we
really gotten to into the book
that much. But there were some
changes in kind of the
geopolitical situation that
we're having. And kind of
simultaneous to this, where the
US has always kind of had a very
kind of like pro Taiwan
perspective. But this sudden
kind of realignment took place.
At a time when China and Taiwan
were like increasing their trade
relations. There was kind of
like a realignment that was kind
of taking place in this post
Cold totally. So when you're
looking at riadi gate, you see
Indonesia, you see Taiwan, you
see Singapore, and you see
China, and those are like the
main countries that come up in
this thing over and over again.
So it's definitely again a
misnomer to call it China gait
because you have a lot of Taiwan
stuff going on. And actually the
most controversial part about
it, as far as Middleton's
concerned, involves the KMT and
Taiwan. No, yeah, no,
absolutely. So anyway, so
basically, Mark Middleton has to
leave the White House in
February 1995. It's not exactly
clear why he has to leave
though. It is worth noting that
Epstein's last meeting with
Middleton, it was just a couple
of weeks before he left the
White House. So not that long.
After he leaves the White House,
Middleton returns to the White
House with James riadi to meet
with Clinton. And then the next
day, Middleton is hired by this
company that's basically like
run controlled by lipo the
realities again, and they hire
Middleton. More specifically,
it's this company called
Arkansas International
Development Corporation and then
they make a counterpart in the
Cayman Islands that's called
Arkansas International
Development Corp. ration two.
Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. And
that's the one that hires
Middleton. And they're paying
him like, almost 13 grand a
month. A lot of money.
Yeah, that is a lot. I went and
tried to find like any kind of
records about what kind of
business they did. And usually,
like, you know, in the documents
that you're looking at, it talks
about how it was mainly about
gaining influence by hiring
people with access to the
Clinton administration. Yeah.
But then like a lot of press
releases, kind of talk about how
it's about promoting business
development in Asia. But the
only concrete thing I could find
it was like, the Arkansas
International Development
Corporation arranged for a
Walmart to open in Indonesia. So
yeah,
yeah, it seems like something
else was going on, because
Middleton's supposed to be on
the reality payroll, what he's
supposed to be doing is looking
for all these joint venture
opportunities for for the Lippo
group. And he doesn't produce
anything. And he's on their
payroll for like, several years.
And he's paid like hundreds of
1000s of dollars to do basically
nothing. Yeah. Well, yeah, but
that's if you believe what he's
supposed to be officially doing
in that period, you know,
yeah, for sure. And just the
fact that it's like a shadow
company that's owned in the
Caymans is, you know, suggested,
you know, it's suggestive of a
pattern. Like when you see that
kind of stuff, it's, you're
usually seeing like some kind of
like, dark money network that's
being formed.
So you know, there's some really
weird meetings that Middleton
does in this period. There's one
where he's like, you know, he
travels through Asia all the
time. And on some of these
occasions that come up in the
congressional reports, he's
like, described as holding CT.
Like in a hotel room, like it's
a two room hotel room, it's like
a suite, right? And then there's
this waiting room, and it's just
full of like, influential Asian
businessmen, and they're all
coming in to meet with Mark
Middleton, one by one, and no
one knows why. Because one thing
I should point out about this
congressional investigation is
that like, hardly anyone
cooperated with it, including
people they subpoena it, like
Mark Middleton is a good
example. He had to testify in
front of Congress, but he
pleaded the fifth 28 times
including when he was asked, Are
you an agent of a foreign
government?
It was really annoying to read,
like a lot of the transcripts.
So can't
read Milton's testimony because
he's just like, No, sir. Can't
say it. So sorry, sir. plead the
fifth Barbara. You know, it's
awful. Yeah. Or it's just, you
know, just to read like you read
along and it's just like him
saying, like, oh, I don't know,
for a you know, hundreds of
times.
Yeah. Yeah, they're all They're
all pretty much like that.
Except I think, Johnny John,
that has a really insane story
with Hillary Clinton, but I hope
we have time. Because it seems
just so unbelievable. Just nuts.
Anyway, so why Middleton's doing
all of this and holding court
for the realities and basically
engage in this weird influence
operation. He's maintaining a
voicemail in at the White House,
hands up business cards, like
he's still working at the White
House and all of this stuff. And
maybe he did have weird
continued ties after he was not
officially working there at the
time, and so eventually, in this
are after Middleton's hire there
a couple months later, there's
this meeting, and then Huang is
hired by the DNC, and given this
title that didn't exist
previously, they like create a
position for him. Yeah, and if
he becomes DNC is Vice Finance
chairman, all of a sudden, and
then he gets involved in all of
this really shady stuff for for
the, you know, the, the
financing of the 1996 campaign,
and basically a lot of what the
stuff is sort of like what he
had done in the in the 92
election for fundraising like
you know, in this is what
Charlie tree and a lot of these
other guys in, in this network,
you know, were doing they would
use like front companies to
funnel money to the DNC or they
would go to people that were
like US citizens maybe like
Chinese or Taiwanese, but had US
citizenship or US residency
could like legally contribute.
And then they would say, okay,
donate X amount of money to the
DNC and then it would be
reimbursed by someone that was
not a US citizen right and in no
one had the realities behind him
Charlie tree head reality
connections, but was tied up
with a guy that will get into a
second name in lapsing, I think,
is how you say his name.
Yeah, I went down a huge rabbit
hole on how to pronounce this
day.
I just figured I'd wing it
because you know, I'm, I'm not
probably ever going to do it.
Right. And I have bronchitis. So
I mean, I was I was extra
screwed.
You pronounced it proper from a
Cantonese perspective.
I'm so glad to do that. Thanks.
Yeah, no problem. All right. So
one thing that's important to
bring up here that we didn't get
into previously, and this is
part of why I think it ended up
being being called China gait is
because that the the reality is
basically in the early 90s, as
Clinton was becoming president
also became business partners,
you know, not just on Jackson
Stevens and people like that,
but also basically of the
Chinese government. So
it just has to do with their
BCCI. Like, attempt. Yeah,
yeah, do you want to talk about
our I can talk about it,
I can talk about it. There's not
too much information about it.
But it was when BCCI was being
liquidated, kind of, you know,
they had branches all over the
world, and other companies
would, you know, try to buy up
their assets and their banks,
and the BCCI Hong Kong branch
was put up for sale. And this
was kind of like a pretty
significant branch for this
bank, because this was the, you
know, kind of major bank that
was used by the Chinese
government, particularly in like
weapons cells. And, you know,
this was like a kind of like,
starting in the 70s, the Chinese
government kind of made, it had
its generalized kind of push
towards like an export oriented
model of economic growth. And
their weapons cells on a global
scale, were a major part of like
this export, and a lot of that
was handled through this BCCI
Hong Kong branch. So as the bank
was being liquidated, that
branch goes up for sale. And lo
and behold, the realities
through Lippo group are
interested in purchasing it. And
what they do is that they end up
kind of partnering with a
company called China resources.
And China resources is kind of
just it's this trading company
that's run by the Chinese
government. And it's described
as the agent for all of the
People's Republic, and China's
foreign trade corporations,
that's kind of like a major hub.
And the way that this would work
is that, you know, they would
partner but China resources
would kind of do all the
financing of the deal. And in
the end, it ended up kind of
falling apart. You know, the
BCCI, Hong Kong, kind of like
went into, like full blown
collapse wasn't purchased. But
the reality is kind of stayed
very close with China resources,
to the point where the realities
had a bank called the Hong Kong
Chinese bank, and China
resources like purchased, I
think it's like 15% of it. And
then, you know, like, in 93,
they increased, it's like 50%.
So the realities, and this, like
chief trading entity for the
Chinese government, were like,
basically involved in this very
kind of like,
large became like a joint
venture basically at that. Yeah,
yeah. And it's not just that it
was like a Trading Corporation.
But China resources was, you
know, identified as basically a
front not just for like the
Chinese government before, like
the People's Liberation Army,
and, you know, involvement in
espionage. And like military
activity, and so you can kind of
see it not just as like a joint
venture with the Chinese
government, but really, it's a
joint venture with the Chinese
military and intelligence app.
And so it's worth pointing out
really quickly. BCCI, HK, the
Hong Kong one Hong Kong branch
very involved with, basically
China's military industrial
complex, to a huge degree, which
was involved with arming Iran,
in Iraq during the Iran Iraq
War. And, you know, some of
those companies, companies like
Norinco, as mentioned in the
book, have very intimate ties
with Jeffrey Epstein's mentor in
the 1980s. Douglas lease. So,
anyway, just leave that there
for people to chew on for a
second. So, um, but this whole
military angle comes up a lot in
quote unquote, China Gate
reality gate, because one of the
few you know, people that were
central to this that did
cooperate with the
investigation, pretty much the
only one I think, is Johnny
Chung, he basically said that he
was courted by someone, the
daughter of a famous Chinese
general who was in charge of
another company that was sort of
flagged as a as a front for the
for the Chinese army, to
basically, you know, launder
money from Chinese military
intelligence and send it to the
DNC. And so that's pretty
mental. And so that's a totally
another person that's not Johnny
Huang. Right but Johnny Huang
basically does, you know
enacting is the realities man on
the inside. He basically does a
lot of the same stuff. So for
example, he connects China
resources to the Commerce
Department, lobbies, Ron Brown
to meet with the chairman of
China resources, and manages the
visit of China resources
chairman, he's a shin durin I
think is how you say it, maybe
that's wrong. Anyway, he
manages, you know, their visit
and our arranges a meeting
between them and Al Gore and
stuff and is like very involved.
So obviously, you know, they're
in a joint venture with the
realities. One is the realities
met on the inside. And he's also
like, as part of that helping
advance the interests of this
China resources company that's
tied to, you know, military
intelligence of China. So that's
complicated. And there's a lot
of stuff going on here. Even
beyond that, like there's these
weird fundraisers that were
being held in Asia on behalf of
the DNC, and Hwang and Charlie
tree. Both did that to a
significant degree. And they'll
have like a lot that they'd
invite, like, a lot of powerful
businessmen, none of whom, often
maybe you'd have had a splat,
you know, a couple citizens, but
the majority would not be in
some cases, none at all. And
there were, you know, witnesses
that they were being lobbied to
contribute to the Clinton
campaign, and things like that,
and actually one of at one of
these fundraisers, one of this
was in Taiwan, I think, or at
least a lot of the businessmen
were Taiwanese. And one of them
had actually been caught for
laundering campaign funds to
city council candidates and Los
Angeles,
Pacific Leadership Council, or
is this No, no,
that's, that's before. So this
was a meeting at the Jefferson
hotel in 96. That had a range.
Yeah. But it's interesting,
because, you know, some of these
guys that are non citizens had
previously been flagged for
laundering campaign funds, like
into the US elections. Previous
to this. So that's the reason I
bring it up. And then there's
another one directly involving
riadi. Okay, and it's at a
fundraiser hosted by Lew
Wasserman, who is the guy that
comes up in the book a lot. If
you're familiar with the Epstein
flight logs, you will know that
there is also a Wasserman
Epstein's flight logs that would
be the grandson of blue one.
Yeah. Yeah, so anyway, that's
also in the book, but little old
school mob. Yeah, totally. And
like you mentioned Jackson
Stevens having ties to Carter,
Reagan, Bush and Clinton, Lew
Wasserman, is that to Lee
Wasserman, Jimmy Carter said the
first person he called outside
of Georgia when he planned to
run for president was Lew
Wasserman. And like I asked his
blessing. Lew Wasserman is
basically the man that made
Ronald Reagan's political
career, a major donor to Bush
Senior and also a big financer
of Clinton, as well so you know,
when you want to talk about
powerful businessman, with
organized crime and intelligence
ties, who were behind the scenes
and scenes and like, political
kingmakers, you know, Lew
Wasserman and Jackson Stevens
are on the on that tear for
sure.
Yeah, and there's just like a
fun little factoid, fun and
quotes. Last year, he was the
guy behind MCA like the big
music and like acting
big Universal Studios now, yeah,
this is
like the mob penetration of
Hollywood sponsored the career
of Ronald Reagan and full but
apparently Danny Castle era,
like during you use the term the
octopus. He had gotten that from
another book. I can't remember
the name of it atop my head, but
the term was being used to
actually describe MCA and it's
like relation to organized
crime.
Yeah, well, MCA was being probed
for its ties organized crime in
the 80s. It was quashed by the
Reagan administration,
obviously, as a favor to
Wasserman who basically owned
Reagan. And they're also MCA,
also, executives of MCA, pop up
in the PROMIS software scandal
several times. And if you read
Sherry Seymour's book on the
subject, or you'll have a much
clearer understanding of where
MCA fits in that picture. All
right, so in the interest of
time, is there anything else you
want to add on one before we
jump to Charlie tree?
I think we hit all the like
really important things I can't
can't think of anything.
Okay, right on so we talked
about long and it's pretty
obvious there that something was
really rotten with that. So
here's the other guy. We've
mentioned a couple times Charlie
tree that's not his real name.
It was Yaalon tree. But you
know, he had, he came to little
Little Rock from Taiwan, though
it doesn't appear that he was
born in Taiwan. It appears he
was born in China and then
emigrated to Taiwan when he was
a teen. But anyway, he comes to
the US in 1976. He goes to
Little Rock, Arkansas, and his
sister's there and they they co
own a restaurant together. And
Clinton ended up frequenting
this restaurant when he was
governor. And that's probably
because tree was donating to him
even before he became a citizen.
As early as 1982 You know,
between 1982 and the end of the
80s the two end up becoming
close somehow and tree starts
calling Clinton like Big Boss
and Mandarin or Cantonese. I'm
not sure exactly which dialect
it is. Wow, okay. Yeah. So you
know, that apparently trends
translates into big boss which
is just
shady sounding
shady sale doing that's for
sure. I mean, all I can really
do was sigh about it like, you
know. So, um, you know, in 1996,
this controversial campaign
financing thing you know,
Clinton is on video actually
calling referring to Trias, his
close friend of over two decades
and stuff. And tree actually has
ties of course to who else the
riadi is going back to the same
period of time basically, around
1983 or so he becomes friends
with a LiPo executive called
Antonio pan and Tony is not his
real first name. It's like the
first name that he chose. When
he came to the US. I forget what
his actual first name is. But he
was the Executive Vice President
of the riadi families Lippo
group, their Chinese subsidiary
called the tatty group. So they
became pretty close and at some
point, the realities extended
Tria, significant loan in 1985
that is reportedly for tree to,
quote, expand his restaurant
operation.
And that's like, $60,000 60,095
is a lot of money. No, I from
what I wasn't like that big, but
like, you know that that's more
money, I think, then his
restaurant would really require.
So I think it's pretty clear
that something else is going
going on there. Yeah,
yeah. So you know, a couple
years later is around the time
when trying to resources and the
reality family are coming
together and BCCI Hong Kong is
collapsing, and all this stuff
is going on tree sells his
restaurant and he tries to
create this import export
business, but specifically
focusing on US China trade
called Daihatsu international
trading Corp. And the
Congressional investigation and
Senate investigation into this
basically found that Daihatsu
didn't ever get any business
ever. But it was of course
involved in donating to the DNC,
even though within the business.
And during the same period, he
was making a lot of tree was
making a lot of trips to China,
between China and the US
bringing Chinese businessmen and
officials to the United States
specifically to Arkansas. And
this is all you know, even
before Clinton is in the White
House. And obviously once he's
in the White House, it picks up
a lot. But a lot of trees
activities in this period are
intimately tied up with this guy
named Ian lapsing, who we
mentioned earlier, who is from
Macau and has a very bizarre
rags to riches story that makes
no sense. He's apparently born
into dire poverty. So poor, he
can't even feed himself. But he
also somehow manages to bribe
his way into Macau. So I don't
know how he did that with no
money. But he did. And then he
becomes a wealthy businessman
once in Macau, apparently, just
by selling fabric to people.
That makes sense. You know,
yeah, in like five years, he
becomes like a multimillionaire
by selling like fabric and he
comes in with no money. I mean,
none of it really makes any
sense to be honest. So, you
know, a lot of these stories
exist. There's a lot of them in
the book for very, you know, a
lot of different people. In my
opinion, when there is a person
who has an improbable rags to
riches story, a lot of times
there's organized crime or other
sort of unsavory alliances that
are responsible for the rise to
riches and not necessarily the
hard work of the person that
we're talking about. So I think
that's pretty true for English
saying, yeah,
he like, there's a lot of
reports about like, allegedly
like ties to triad gangs. And so
that's definitely like your kind
of organized crime side. Lots of
allegations that he was himself
like a Chinese intelligence
agent. He was absolutely, like,
close to like the leadership of
the Communist Party of China in
this time period. Yeah. And he
would kind of fall as the second
generation of what were called,
like, the red fat cats, which
were like, are
the red princes or princelings?
They have a lot of different
nicknames, depending on who was
talking about them. Yeah.
The red fat cats was the term
used in Macau proper, I think.
Right. So to define that, for
people that don't know this,
these are basically more often
than not like family members,
like children of people that
were sort of like the founders,
or top leaders of China's
Communist Party. And so they get
sort of these cushy jobs in the
state owned conglomerates or
businesses. And a lot of them
were not very communist in their
dealings. But one of the guys
that gets talked about a lot in
the chapter, chapter 17, of the
book was basically disowned by
his father who was a very
prominent member of the
Communist Party for being too
capitalist and that guy was
like, hoarding a bunch of money
in offshore accounts and doing
you know, the same shady
business activities that a lot
of the other people that we
talked about in the book are
doing, you know, so it's it's
just business as usual. For you
know, the red fat cats or
whatever.
Yeah. And I think that that also
helps kind of draw out why Macau
is so important, because because
it was like simultaneously this
like completely unregulated
zone, but it was so close to
China is that Macau is where a
lot of these, you know, kind of
elite figures in China were kind
of putting the money that they
weren't necessarily supposed to
be accumulating.
So, so inlab saying once he's a
rich guy, he he's very involved
in real estate and he owns like
hotels and stuff that I think
also were like casino II stuff.
To an extent, the places that he
owns are allegedly, again,
associated with triad gangsters.
And he, you know, in this period
of time, he starts connecting
with tree, his first known
association with tree is this
effort to acquire a hotel in
Little Rock, Arkansas, that I
think actually involves St.
Joseph gerar. Right. Yeah. Of
all people, you know, the riadi
guy again, so the realities are
in the mix, but in collapsing is
interesting, because he has this
direct tie to top Chinese
leadership. He's allegedly
affiliated with organized crime.
And that came up when he was
trying to acquire this hotel,
even that he had criminal ties
and Asia was what they said, but
one of these hotels was
advertised as a massage table
dance karaoke spot. Okay, so in
Macau, that's basically
especially because of the
alleged organized crime
influence, it's most likely like
a low key brothel. Macau was
very well known, especially in
this period for having been a
hotbed for sex trafficking. And
it was basically de facto legal,
de facto illegal to have
brothels if it was disguised as
a massage parlor. And that's
actually very common in parts of
Asia, even today. Actually,
suddenly, we're talking a little
bit before we recorded I
mentioned that when I was in
college, I went to Malaysia for
a month with my my major advisor
to do some research on stuff
there. And we were gonna go to
we were like walking down the
street and we looked inside one
of these like massage parlors,
quote, unquote, and it was like,
the women were like, all staring
out the window. They were all
wearing like matching pajamas
with like, zip down, like, all
the way down. I mean, it was
just very odd, you know. And
also karaoke. We went to a
karaoke bar, thinking it would
be like, fun, you know. And it
turns out that like, you can't
go up and sing karaoke if you
want. Like, we wanted to go goof
off and stuff, but you're not
even it's like these women come
up and they sing karaoke. And
then they're handed flowers with
a wad of cash inside. And then
whoever gave them the cash
follows them, like down this
hallway, and you don't see where
they go. Right. And so I don't
know how common that is, you
know, in Macau during this
period, but this was like on a
sort of a place called Penang
and Malaysia, which is like, you
know, mostly ethnic Chinese. So
maybe it is what they do in
Macau. Also, that's just my
personal experience. I've never
been to China so I don't know
but I mean, you know, shady
hotel with organized crime ties
massage table dance karaoke spot
in a place that's known for lack
of regulation about all sorts of
things including sex
trafficking, it's a little
alarming
now is this the same hotel that
Stanley Ho was involved with?
No, no, but this is this is a
collapsing like flagship hotel
Oh, another thing I forgot.
Their main pamphlet for this
hotel that he ran specifically
promoted attractive and
attentive hostesses from China
Korea, Singapore, Malaysia,
Vietnam, Indonesia and Burma
together with erotic girls from
Europe and Russia. It makes it
they offer you an exciting and
unforgettable evening with
friends or business associates.
So I mean not looking good. Not
looking good in lapsing I think
we're onto you. So yeah, so
anyway, that's the guy that tree
teamed up with those are his
connections I think it's a
little bit irrelevant and so
basically tree is basically to
summarize it because we don't
have that much time he he's
basically acting as a front for
collapsing and if you read the
congressional or Senate reports
it's very clear that's what
happened tree basically found
all these different ways to
break up huge sums of money that
in lapsing was wiring him. He
tried to shuffle it through all
these different bank accounts
and then filter it to the DNC
through all these different
ways, but it's very obvious that
it all came from in lapsing. So
he's basically acting as a front
for NG lapsing at the end of the
day. And a lot of you know,
where does Mark Middleton fit in
here? Okay, so mark Middleton is
going to these parties that are
being hosted at this office of
the Watergate Complex that
England lapsing uses, but it's
apparently owned in the office
of this Daihatsu company that
tree runs, but it's being used
by inlab Singh and his book
keeper. And then Antonio Pon,
this former Lippo group
executive who was now claiming
to be CEO of the Daihatsu
company that never does any
business ever. And so Mark
Middleton and some of these guys
from also where else the
Commerce Department are going to
these weird parties at the
Watergate apartment, not going
to speculate about what may have
happened there. But there are
some other things that are
noticing notable about him
collapsing. And I guess a lot of
these would be that when England
intellects lapsing makes his
visits to the US. And during
this period of time, they're
almost always it ain't aimed at
him going to the White House and
he goes to the White House, but
he'll come into the country with
like, a ton of cash on him. And
and you know, in a couple days,
he apparently spends it all and
it's, it seems to me the way
it's written in like it's laid
out in the documentation. He's
He's basically like giving it to
mark Middleton, like he comes
into the US with a ton of cash.
And then he makes Mark Middleton
and then he leaves.
And he's like Ron Brown a lot,
too, in this period.
Yeah. So it's either going to
Middleton or brown. They're both
equally corrupt. So it's
anyone's guess, at this point,
and then tree gets appointed to
this fancy board of Finance
Board of Directors at the DNC,
which includes people like Edgar
Bronfman, of course, sums up a
lot in the book. And as you
know, sort of affiliated with
the Lew Wasserman side of
things, to significant degrees,
and then tree gets involved with
this is another rabbit hole, so
I'm not gonna get into it too
much. But he basically being
brings China's premier arms
dealer to meet with Clinton and
something that became really
controversial. But what wasn't
reported really, in the media
reports about it at the time, is
that this meeting that tree
setup for this arms dealer,
whose name is Wang Jun,
basically scuttled what would
have what actually was even
though it was, you know, mess,
totally messed with the biggest
like ATF confiscation of
automatic weapons that were
being smuggled in the US ever.
And, and basically, you know,
Wing Wing jeans, companies were
smuggling illegal Chinese
weapons into the United States,
because as part of that
aforementioned most favored,
traded, most favored nation
trading status deal that was
being lobbied for by the
realities. And all of this,
Clinton banned Chinese weapons
from being sold in the US, but
they were still smuggling them
to a significant degree. And
someone at the White House after
this meeting with Wang Jun that
Charlie tree set up, basically
tips everyone off, that's being
investigated, that's going to
happen and all the big people
they were after, including Wayne
June's operator of us, all as US
Operations managed to escape.
And so only like the little guys
are, are nabbed for it. But it's
still, they still get like an
insane amount of automatic
weapons and these automatic
automatic weapons, we're going
to like, basically, were feeling
gang violence, at the height of
all of that stuff going on in
the 1990s, like the east versus
West, you know, gang battles,
and all of this stuff that, you
know, is urban, you know, a lot
of people in the US, I think,
know about it at this point,
because it was such a big part
of, you know, culture at the
time, I was gonna say, like a
kid, and I even knew about it.
So,
yeah, like, even like movies
from that time, like you'll, you
know, any representation, you'll
see, they'll have like Chinese
like automatic weapons, and the
scale of it was like really
large, because if you read a lot
of the, you know, the few
documents that exist, you know,
concerning that, they talked
about how China like, it was
still enough for them to like,
get significant revenue streams
off selling it to us street
gangs. Yes. So like, it wasn't
like little, you know, these
aren't like small time arms
deals, these are still kind of
like large weapons packages in a
lot of ways. So definitely,
definitely more defined in that
direction to I think,
Oh, totally. And you know, what,
I tried to get in touch with
this lawyer that we, that we
talked about a couple weeks ago,
and like he was going to talk to
me now he like, doesn't want to
talk to me about the China
stuff. Oh, really? What
happened? But Dan is really
hoping to find out the name of
these offshore companies, or
they were doing all this stuff,
but I guess I won't know.
Anyway, I was just
wondering about that. That's
disappointing. Well, maybe
you can try them. Maybe we'll
see what happens. So anyway, um,
so at, you know, after this
meeting with Wang gene, and all
of that, which is a very
separate thing, and I've
mentioned this in some other
interviews, because I think that
sort of is is what explains
Epstein and Middleton's
relationship at the White House
is related to a lot of this
Chinese weapons stuff because of
numerous things. I mean, it all
sort of clicks together
different parts of the book in
that chapter. And that's way too
complex to get into for now. So
you know, We're just trying to
focus on Mark Middleton and in
reality gate and whatever,
right. So, you know, after that
meeting tree is going to a big
fundraiser that's supposed to be
the top African American
fundraiser in DC. It's basically
headed by Ron Brown, who is an
African American, I think at the
time was like the only person in
the cabinet that was African, or
at least one of them. I don't, I
can't remember exactly. But he
brings like, what was described
as a boatload of, I guess,
Chinese, Chinese and Taiwanese
people with him. And basically,
Clinton and Ron Brown are on
video talking about like, that
they know that this is they call
them the tree team, like the
Charlie tree team. Yeah. And,
you know, they like know that
there's these non citizens
coming to all these fundraisers
and are obviously like, cool
with it. So, and again, that was
like, the main focus of this
investigation was the legality
of the finance contributions,
but very little interest in
looking into what those you
know, what those finances were
enabling. And Mark Middleton was
at the mean, at the center of
all of these meetings,
ultimately. So the question
becomes, you know, what did the
realities want, basically,
because the two main guys here,
aside from Johnny Chung, who I
don't think we have time to get
to today, but they're basically
you know, have reality ties,
significant significant reality
ties, and are part of the same,
you know, network, you know,
around involved with, like,
Macau banking, and like money
laundering, and BCCI, and all of
this stuff. So Middleton was in
the center of this insane swamp.
So it's really no coincidence
that you see George W. Bush, you
know, the the son of George Bush
senior's stepping in to cover
this up. And that's how you know
that this is, there's a lot more
to the scandal here, for sure.
You also, I totally forgot to
mention this one of Charlie
trees, top guy like
conspirators, alongside Mark
Middleton is a top banker at
Lehman Brothers, who's this guy
named Ernie green. So you also
have Wall Street pretty directly
in the mix here. And there's
this weird stuff that they were
the train in Ernie green, we're
obviously doing they claim to
like, come together in this. So
funny to me this joint venture
around self inflating novelty
balloons. So I'm upfront for
anything,
just find that, like, that's
like a thing that comes up like
time and time again, when you're
looking at this stuff, you'll
just come across like, yeah, a
self inflating novelty balloon.
You know, that's not like what
it's about. Like, you know,
like, I was looking at this
thing with like Adnan Khashoggi
last night in around 1986 He was
trying to sell shares to what he
claimed was King Solomon's mind
he said that he had found it to
see you know, these people love
to just like do weird shit you
know? Yeah,
they like love to have silly
Griffes that like are amusing to
them you know? I don't know I
that's what I assume it is. So
anyway, um, so Middleton in
green are working with tree
really extensively at the same
time, Middleton's also working
extensively with Johnny Huang
and all of this weird stuff,
right? And they green and
Middleton both tried to get
involved in this real estate
project that tree and in in
lapsing, we're really trying to
promote during this period of
time, and it was caught on by
being lapsing with the whole
brothers of Macau. And that's
the aforementioned the brought
up a second ago, Stanley Hall,
being one of those brothers and
I mean, it's documented the ties
of the whole family to organized
crime in China that is, or
Macau,
it's very much like eating
himself where, you know, on the
one hand, they have these like,
yeah, ties to triads organized
crime, very extensive, well
documented deep, but on the
other hand, it was like, you
know, he was served on like, the
China's like committee of the,
you know, the top advisory
council to the Communist Party.
So he's another one of these
like, red Fat Cat types. And one
thing that's like, really
interesting, I thought is, you
know, back at the beginning, we
talked about this Macau bank
that Jackson Stevens, and the
reality spot that saying hang
bank, yeah, 1986 or 87. They
sold it to Stanley Ho. So like,
they have relations to him going
back to the 1980s predating all
of this stuff. And so it's
indicative of like a pretty
consistent totally,
and Stanley Hall was like so
obviously tied to organized
crime. They don't even let him
set up casinos or his children
set up casinos in the US. Yeah,
it'd be business partners and
casinos in the US like they
don't want their money so bad
because they know how dirty they
are that it will be very bad
press for them. Like
immediately.
He's descends from the family
like there was tied up with
Jardine Matheson, which was like
yeah, company that Dima
explained. Yeah, but Jardine.
Matheson was like a A British
trading company that for a
while, kind of competed with the
East India Company, but then
over time, it all kind of
started to integrate. And so in
the face thing, yeah, it was
controlled by what's called the
Keswick family. And you know,
when we talk about like the
Opium Wars, or just like the
general opium trade in Asia,
like the castle wicks through
Jardine Matheson really were
like the controlling body for
this, and actually ends up being
like, quite important during
World War Two. The Keswick were
key parts of it was called the
Special Operations executive.
This was like British
intelligence in World War Two.
And they provided a lot of the
documents that would like to
William Donovan, it'd be
necessary to set up the OSS. So
Jardine, Matheson actually has
like a really fundamental
connection to the basis of
American intelligence itself.
And so like, the whole family
descends from like, people who
were like, high executives, and
this is just like a long family
history of shady ties and
Underworld ties, you know, kind
of coexisting together. Yeah.
So, you know, basically to sum
up, I mean, this is the network
that's around Mark Middleton at
the time the scandals going on
and when he's meeting with
Epstein, right, so I think it's
really one thing that really
surprised me when I finally it
finally got into the, you know,
the work of researching this
book that was, you know,
supposed to be just mainly about
Epstein, is that Epstein has a
lot of ties to the east that
don't get reported on really, at
all, specifically, like Chinese
weapons manufacturers and stuff.
And I think that was really, you
know, one of the missing pieces
in the puzzle when discussing
his involvement in, you know, on
behalf of Leslie Wexner, getting
Southern Air Transport the Iran
Contra airline of infamy
relocated to go, instead of, you
know, focusing on flights
between Latin America in the US
because, you know, they were
drug smuggling in the Iran
Contra era. It's relocated from
going from Columbus, Ohio, to
Hong Kong and back. What were
they smuggling? Why is he
meeting with Mark Middleton?
That is? Well, we think we
figured it out. But there's
obviously a lot more to come out
about it. And it's worth
mentioning to you that, you
know, while this is treated as
China Gate, and there was such a
big focus on East Asia stuff,
it's also very important to
point out that there was also a
lot of other people involved
with I guess what I would call
the Robert Maxwell mafia.
Perhaps you have people like
Gregory Lucha Lansky, who's like
linked to organized crime Mark
rich, and also the Maxwell
symbol as the sons Ian and Kevin
ended up working for him. He's
being courted by a guy who's
very tied up with the sort of
whole mega group group and
people like Steven Spielberg,
he's trying, you know, Sam, Dom,
Sam Thompson. Yeah, who knew
Maxwell personally, right. And
he's basically
trying to take these organized
crime people like, no into the
DNC network as well, at the same
time. So you're having sort of
these Chinese military connected
organized crime guys in China
and Macau, and whatever. In the
BCCI crowd, the realities
getting into the DNC, in really
shady ways and buying influence
and obviously targeting, you
know, more than anything else,
the Commerce Department, and at
the same time, you have the
people in the in the Robert
Maxwell network, Epstein being
one of them, just one of them, I
should point out, that are that
are also involved with the same
stuff at the end of the day. So
there's like, a huge scandal
here. And you know, I think in
the book, we only really ended
up like scratching the surface
of it. There's a lot more and
you know, at some point, I'd
really like to find out what the
heck was going on, because it's
nuts. And I guess the part we
should end here, as you know,
what ended up happening to Mr.
Ron Brown, because Ron Brown was
the target of most of this
influence operation, these
influence operations that came
up in the scandal in which Mark
Middleton himself was embroiled
in he met a very grisly end in
April 1996, and I've talked
about this in some previous
interviews as well, but he was
on he was going to cooperate as
part of an investigation that
was threatened to unravel a lot
of more than what we've covered
today, but about the same
network specifically and then
was unexpectedly asked to host a
trade mission to Croatia in
route to their, the plane, he is
on crashes. And the crowd the
cause of the crash was
attributed to failure of command
and an improperly designed
instrument, approach procedure,
whatever that means. And they
blame that on a 1930s era
navigational system, but then a
couple of days later, the head
navigation at the airport, where
they were supposed to land was
found dead shot in the chest.
And he was that was ruled a
suicide. You know, totally
normal. And even Clinton himself
talking about the tragedy was
like, Oh, this was a peculiar
peculiar mix of circumstances,
if only one or two things had
happened differently, the crash
might not have happened at all,
you know, one or two things
happening differently, maybe
having been Ron Brown not
agreeing to cooperate with
investigators. That's just my
opinion, though. So anyway,
what's crazy about this is that
a lot of people do you know
that, like Ron Brown, his body
when it was discovered, it was
very suspect. But there were 34
people who died on that plane.
Yep. And a lot of them were
people that worked alongside
John Juan at the ITA, I think
almost his direct boss, yeah,
his boss at the ITA was there.
And a lot of other people, most
of the other people on the plane
were also specifically part of
the ITA that Johnny Huang was,
was at. And to me, that's really
telling because it's not just
about Ron Brown. That to me,
says Johnny Huang, at the ITA
was engaged in a lot of stuff.
And I think that Arkansas system
stuff with China's central bank,
you know, might be part of it,
because of all these weird
security clearances and all this
stuff. And that's why it's so
mind boggling to me that the
congressional investigations
into this, they don't really
bring up the Ron Brown crash at
all. It's like a separate thing.
In the fact the coincidental
fact that all these people at
the ITA get killed when Johnny
Huang is doing this weird stuff
with Steven zinc and the
security clearances and
whatever, at the ITA. And like
we mentioned earlier, they
weren't really interested in
looking into that at all. And
all these people just
conveniently end up dead. The
second that Ron Brown's like,
you know, okay, I'll cooperate.
And so you know, basically, he
had this bullet wound in his
head, and we point out in the
book, the details for that,
yeah.
It was a 45 is described on the
Army Medical Examiner as a 45
and readily beveling circular
hole in the top of his head,
which is essentially the
description of a 45 caliber
gunshot wound. And inwardly
beveling. That means, like, the
inside of the wound is bigger
than the outside, which is why
it's consistent with, you know,
kind of the way that a bullet
kind of goes,
yeah, it was pretty much widely
recognized that it wasn't caused
by the crash. And I think at the
time, you had like Maxine Waters
in Congress asking for, like,
more information about
anomalies, and Ron Brown's
autopsy and all this stuff,
which they obviously didn't want
to deal with. So there was no
subsequent autopsy, it was
pretty much, you know, yeah,
that's significant, because one
of the medical examiner's
disagree that it was a bullet
hole, strictly based on the fact
that there was no exit wound.
But that's like, you know,
that's not uncommon to not have
an exit wound and autopsy would
show like, you know, recover
that bullet. But there were
like, no autopsies done. And I
believe that he was cremated,
like very quickly, before the
family themselves were notified.
Yeah, so. And you found this
actually, and I just found it so
nuts that not only did you have
those people die, but not that a
couple months later, you had
another person at the Commerce
Department die super
suspiciously in just found dead
in her office. Yeah, Barbara was
working at ICA also. Yeah,
yeah, it was weird, because at
first they were treating it as a
homicide. Because like our body
apparently had bruises. Yeah,
give us conflicting reports on
whether or not she was clothed.
But then like, by the end of the
day, they were like, oh, no,
this was natural cause
natural causes. She's bruises on
her body. And I don't know, it's
just yeah, okay. natural causes
just totally mental health. They
have to deal with this stuff,
too. And earlier in the book,
before we get, you know, all
this stuff that we talked about
the day comes up, we talked
about Vince Foster, and like
that whole autopsy thing is to
like totally nuts, too. So,
anyway. So I mentioned earlier,
Brown was going to be a material
witness and was going to
testify. Yeah, this was actually
a suit filed by Judicial Watch.
Tom Fitton, right. Yeah. But
anyway, the whole thing he was
supposed to testify about, was
it exactly about the campaign
finance stuff, but it would have
led to that same network, right.
Yeah.
It's it's incredibly clear that
that's exactly like the because
this the Judicial Watch suit,
ended up launching kind of like
a congressional probe that would
have converged directly into the
96 campaign controversy, and
possibly revealed like larger
networks that play in this
yes, if you want to get into
that a little bit, the dynamic
it was a company called dynamic
energy and the stuff there's
pretty crazy. So yeah,
dynamic energy. She was owned by
this couple named Nora and
Eugene Lum. And there were these
kinds of shady real estate
developers from Hawaii that had
become involved in, you know,
this, the DNC Asian American
fundraising activities, like
they started back in like the
1980s. And they had met Ron
Brown when he was the DNC
chairman. So that's kind of
where their association like
went to. And they set up this
thing that was called the Asian
Pacific Advisory Council, or
APEC, not to be confused with
the Zionist organization have a
similar name. During the first
Clinton run, and this was like
one of these, we're talking
earlier about how I clung and
we're kind of like funneling
money through these various DNC
apparatuses. This was one of
those and so long in the lungs,
like crossed paths. This is one
of the examples of why this is
kind of the same network. And
the allegations concerning AIPAC
are identical to the whole long
stuff, you know, these
allegations of moving illegal
campaign contributions from you
know, foreign entities and
foreign businesses. There's
stories of cash being delivered,
and you know, paper bags. One
little connection of a pack that
I thought was really
interesting, was it involved the
guy named Charles chidiac, who
was involved in Hawaiian real
estate with the Lums. But before
that, he had appeared on what
was called the banca del lavoro
scandal BNL. And this bank was
financing both sides of the Iran
Iraq War, and had lots of ties
like US intelligence to BCCI,
once again, to Henry Kissinger
and chidiac during that scandal
have been found. They've been
like very active with the bank,
and he was described as an asset
of American intelligence
services. So then he turns up,
you know, with the lungs and the
DNC, that's pretty telling, I
think, but so, you know, after
Clinton was elected, you know,
the first time, they immediately
end up running this oil and gas
company called dynamic energy.
And this is despite like, they
never had any previous
experience in oil and gas. And
the company itself had no oil
and gas reserves of its own. In
fact, like, if you look at some
of the reporting on it, it's a
total mystery where they even
got the money to launch it in
the first place.
Maybe that's why it's dynamic
energy where they're trying to
get the energy from is like
changing.
That's kind of like that's the
thing they were these were like,
very kind of fly by night
people. They weren't wealthy.
They were kind of glorified
Grifters. Really? Yeah. Well,
one of their, like, early
partners was a guy named Stuart
price. Yeah, it was the son in
law, senate majority leader
George Mitchell.
Which is important, because
around this time is allegedly
when Epstein meets up with
George Mitchell. Yes, through
his meetings at the White House,
most of which are with metal
tin. And then, of course, it's
been alleged since that he was
part of the sex trafficking
operation
that's made by Virginia
Jeffrey's Right, yeah, yeah. But
then the other interesting thing
about dynamic energy is not only
is it close to, you know, George
Mitchell, but it's like very
tight with the Commerce
Department itself. It's like Ron
Brown son, Michael Brown, he was
on the board of dynamic energy
and had a 5% stake in the
company. The mother of a
Commerce Department employee,
named Melinda Yee, who was very
close to long, she was on the
board as well and also have a
similar stake. And then at the
same time that this was
happening, the alums daughter,
Trisha alum, who was actually
hired into the Commerce
Department. Yeah. And so what's
happening at the same time that
you know, all these ties are
forming is that the lump start
using dynamic energy to pay out
large sums of money to like
people associated with commerce
department, the, you know,
various politicians, the people
in the DNC, and then to also to
like really kind of like strange
like random businesses. Kind of
consistent with what we were
talking about earlier. The FBI
have reported that the lungs
were quote, unquote,
facilitators and conduits for
payments from private
individuals in real estate
development to public officials,
which in other words, it was a
Monday money laundering
operation. And it seems to have
developed like pretty clever
ways to start getting money for
these, but seem to be payoffs,
right. And one of them involved
this contract with a natural gas
company called Oklahoma natural
gas. And Oklahoma natural gas
was very close to another
company called Arkla, which lo
and behold, was controlled by
the Stephens family of Stevens
Inc. and Mack McLarty
Middleton's boss was previously
the CEO of Arkla. And so, you
know, it's another telling
connection there. My notes for a
second. Yeah, so they're
entering into this kind of
contract, where dynamic energy
would provide gas to Oklahoma
natural gas at a really steep
above market price. And so then
what Oklahoma natural gas will
do is to pass this on to the
consumers and overbill them. So
So to create revenue for dynamic
energy, but you know, there's
kind of scamming, you know, the
citizens of Oklahoma, and
Arkansas. And that's really what
starts to kick off the probe
into like, what's going on here?
Exactly. Because, you know, I
mentioned earlier, dynamic
energy didn't have any of its
own gas reserves. So in order to
get them it starts to try to
acquire another company called
gauge Corporation. And there was
evidence and this is why Ron
Brown was getting kind of roped
into it because there was
significant evidence the White
House was like kind of guiding
this whole thing in vote Yeah,
sure that gauge was acquired.
And apparently Middleton's boss
or former boss at the White
House. McClaren Mack McLarty was
involved in it, too. So you have
like, all these people and all
these other scandals of the
Clinton era, like up in here. So
obviously, if that if this had
been appropriately investigated
in Yeah, and I'm sure if Ron
Brown had cooperated, it would
have led to a lot, a lot more
unraveling of, you know, some,
some crazy stuff in a pretty,
you know, short period of time.
So, you know, it also if I'm not
mistaken, just before we wrap up
here, one of the people that was
financing this was the Waltons,
Alice walking through llama, the
llama company. And that's
significant. Well, I just want
to I just wanted to bring that
up, because I just wanted to
mention a little bit about this
NGO where Middleton's body was
found earlier this year. So
Heifer International is a
nonprofit. Their funders include
Walmart, BlackRock and the Bill
and Melinda Gates Foundation.
And it's partnered with the
heifer Foundation. And the
Foundation's board of trustees
is chaired by the former
director of strategy and
business development for the
Clinton Development Initiative,
which is part of the Clinton
Foundation. So you have all of
these interesting players
involved with this particular
NGO or Middleton's body was
found hanging from a tree. Just
a little weird, because more or
less most almost all of these
people with the exception of
Blackrock, I guess, but I mean,
they own everything and, you
know, Wall Street. So, you know,
they're involved too, with this
group in the book, basically. I
mean, it's interesting to say
the very least
what one other just like really
weird connection, you know,
mentioning that, yeah, so yeah,
they got financing dynamic to
buy. Gauge from Loma, like you
said, was connected to the
Walmart fortune through Alice
Walton. What's really funny is
that they were actually located
in another they were located in
the state bank of Tulsa
building, that's where their
headquarters were, which was
controlled by a company called
our vest, which was another
Alice Walton. entity. And if you
look, if you look at news about
Mark Middleton, June 28 2021,
Middleton joined the board of
directors of our best just a
year or so before he died. So,
you know,
Oh, interesting. Okay. I didn't
I didn't really I didn't know
that about Middleton.
Until this morning. And so.
Well, I'm gonna have to look
into that now. Well, all right.
Yeah. So obviously, that's
really crazy. Because what I
have read about Middleton in the
in the, in recent years is that
he was like running an air
conditioning business. He was
running an air conditioning
business, but he seems to have
still been kind of circulating
in the same
in these worlds. Yeah, well, I
guess um, the Epstein scandal
broke down another another guy,
because honestly, you know, I
think he's involved with all
this stuff. He's involved with
these crazy campaign finance
scandals and trying to gauge the
Ron Brown stuff. Ron Brown ends
up dead Mark Middleton doesn't
end up dead until 2022. Yeah,
it's like why 2022? And I don't
know. i My suspicion is that it
has to do with all this stuff
about Epstein meeting with him
in December coming out in
December 2021. That's the only
thing really, you know, the only
blip on the radar since like
2001 or 2002, about Mark
Middleton anywhere, you know.
So also, it was so strange
because I felt like he died like
right in the middle of when we
were researching this particular
material. I know it was not just
real Have something.
Yeah, that was super tribute.
Yeah. So we were wrapping up
this chapter and pretty much the
book around the time reason for
Middleton's death brown. It blew
our minds. And then we saw that
they were going to call it a
suicide. Like before they
announced it, they were like, in
lieu of, you know, gifts to the
family donate to like, you know,
some suicide hotline, and we
were like, Oh, my God.
Details came out that he had
hung himself and shot himself,
you know, the way that people
generally, you know, commit
suicide.
Yeah. Well, the other thing I
didn't mention about the death
scene, is that reportedly the
sheriff or I guess, police
officers at the scene, they said
there wasn't a lot of blood or
anything. That's a quote at the
scene. Okay, but I just a
shotgun blast to the chest like,
how was there? Not a lot of
like, how's that? Not grizzly?
Yeah, that's it reminds me of
Vince Foster, because you know,
Vince Foster's body, they was
allegedly very little blood at
the scene, like people that
handle the body didn't even have
to wear gloves, because there
was like, no blood. Right, but
he supposedly shot himself in
the mouth. And that's messy. So
there should have been blood
everywhere. And there wasn't. So
the claim is like that he was
moved. The body was moved in the
case of Vince Foster. Like,
that's what a lot of people who
question the official story,
which the official story is just
like, so dumb for Vince Foster
anyway, but yeah, you know, it's
most likely his body was moved
there and like he bled out
somewhere else. So with
Middleton, if there's no blood
at the scene, that would make
sense. But then, you know, that
raises some questions. And then
this Arkansas court, like
immediately comes in, and
they're like, oh, yeah, no
videos, no photos, nothing can
ever be revealed about the
Middleton death scene, sealed
forevermore. And that's the end
of that, you know, just
pretty weird. Yeah, I guess you
know, what one thing that I
wanted to mention, like while
we're adding people to the
Clinton death list, is that the
guy who owned a gauge company
we're talking about? All right,
he's all started. Yeah, while he
was cooperating with the FBI,
died of a respiratory ailment of
like, unknown nature is I think,
how the medical examiner put it,
and he had been telling friends
and family, but like, the weeks
prior to that happening, we had
been receiving death threats.
And I think also a private
detective that he had hired to,
like, help him with this case.
And also, like, I think somebody
like Matt a shot through is like
car windshield or something.
Yeah, that's so nuts. I mean,
the death toll is pretty big.
But I wouldn't call it the
Clinton kill list. I mean, it's
not just the Clintons we're
talking about here. For
something else, right. Just like
Epstein is middle management for
something else. Like he's not
the top of the food chain.
Absent neither. Neither are the
Clintons. Alright. So I think we
did a pretty good job today of
unraveling what we could, you
know, obviously do more in the
book. But, you know, unraveling
what we could have the mark
Middleton mystery, you know,
what was really going on with
Mark Middleton and what you
know, may be there, in terms of
you know, it the significance of
Middleton meeting with Epstein
during that particular period of
time, and why the US media will
not touch the Epstein White
House relationship in the 90s.
They just won't touch it, which
is mental. It was only only
really reported on the UK at all
admit same with Middleton's
Middleton's death was only like
the daily
Daily Mail Daily Mail. That's,
yeah, I think I think the New
York Post might have republished
one or two of these stories, but
that's really it. And you think
you would think with all the
attention that the Epstein
scandals gotten in the media,
the photo last December of
Epstein shaking hands with
Clinton, at that White House
Historical fundraiser would have
gotten some attention, right?
Because they're obviously
meeting in 1993 and Gilead
Maximals there. But now, they
really liked their narrative
that they didn't meet until
like, 2001. And so they won't
change it. They'll just ignore
the other evidence about it. I
mean, same thing with Bill
Gates, Epstein. And Bill Gates
officially didn't meet till
2011. But there's 2000 articles
from 2001 Saying that Jeffrey
Epstein had had made boatloads
of money through his business
links with Bill Gates. It's
like,
are these the articles that like
to vanish from the internet?
Yeah,
but they're, you can still find
them. I mean, I found them.
Yeah, I just had to get
creative. You know, but they're
there. And they're probably
they're on like, the British
version of newspapers.com. You
know, the British Newspaper
Archive, you know, it's all
there. It's just, you know, not
not easy to find on a Google
search anymore or, you know, the
Evening Standard, which is the
outlet the publish that
particular article, their
website, you know, but the
silence is deafening in this
case, specifically, and I think,
you know, the fact that you had
two administrations step in to
protect Middleton, who by all
appearances is just like a
relatively lowly White House
aide, like he's not even he's
not Uh, the head of a
department, right? He's not he's
not a top adviser topic, the
Clinton he's an advisor to an
advisor to Clinton. Right.
Right, or an aide to
one of Clinton stopped by an
aide to the Chief of Staff I
guess. Yeah,
so Well, yeah. But you know,
eventually McLarty was also
like, you know, senior counsel
the President or whatever, like
he wasn't around Yeah, yeah. So
they bounced around. But you
know, Middleton was with
McClarty the whole time, but he
wasn't definitely at the top of
the White House hierarchy. But
then you have George W. Bush
invoking executive privilege to
shield this guy in a couple of
weeks before 911. I mean, it's
just, it's not. And now you have
US media and just not covering
it at all. And we talked about
this a little bit before, but
there's like this, you know, New
Yorker, recent New Yorker panel,
this panel of, quote unquote
experts on the Epstein case, I'm
talking about, like, the
unanswered questions. Yeah, Mark
Middleton's not on there. So you
know, that's, that's problematic
to me. You know, obviously, I
was not invited to participate.
But looking at the panelists
there, I didn't see a single one
who's ever acknowledged really
anything about Epstein's
intelligence ties, except with
the possibility of a CIA one. No
mention of Israeli intelligence.
So, you know, I think you
probably, yes, why I wasn't
invited, but I'll just leave it
at that. So anyway,
start to change, you know, as
the book gets out there.
Yeah, well, we'll see what
happens. Um, hopefully, I won't
end up like, like Ron Brown. You
know, I'm kidding. I'm not
worried about that. So anyway,
so Edie, thanks a lot for
joining me for a longer than
national podcast, but a lot of
material that's very complicated
to get into. And, you know, we
didn't really even get into the
half of it. You know, there's
obviously a lot more to unravel
there. But I think that's a good
start for people to realize the
significance of Mark Middleton
and also just, you know, Ken
Starr, right. The guy
investigating Clinton corruption
supposedly died like a couple
days ago. And he didn't get into
any of this stuff like at all
right, and so pretty much the
definition of a limited hanging
out, right. Yeah. And then he
was
Epstein's defense attorney.
Right? So he based Yeah,
totally. And he also basically
helped cover all this stuff up
with Middleton up he it didn't
come up in his stuff at all. He
just totally like, No, thanks.
You know, in that same with the
Vince Foster stuff glossed over
that, like key evidence. And
that case that was given to him,
he lost or allegedly destroyed
it and stuff. I mean, he was
obviously, you know, not working
for the people on that one. So
there's actually, you know, the
more you look at the Clinton
era, the more insane it gets in
the fact that, you know, this
was in the 90s. I can't even
imagine the kind of stuff that
goes on now. I mean, it's just
mind boggling.
Information control today that
it's frightening to think about.
Yeah, totally. Well, I think
they've just bought off
mainstream media a lot more than
before. And I think that
happened in a big way, like
after 911. Because, you know,
for example, I in some of my
other work, right? I I've
written about how, like DARPA
has total information awareness,
they put John Poindexter from
Iran Contra in charge of there
was like a huge chorus of
dissent from mainstream media
about how bad that was, and how
it was going to erode privacy.
And that basically that same
programs to basically exist as
Palantir today, but the New York
Times just writes like puff
pieces on Palantir.
You talk about that in the book,
right? And the second one, yeah,
yeah, a little bit
in the last chapter. But, you
know, in other stuff I've talked
to, you know, I've done a lot of
stuff on DARPA and NTIA because
a lot of it was resurrected on
under the guise of combating
COVID-19, like the CIA's bio
surveillance program, the whole
wastewater surveillance stuff
that's come to pass now under
part of HHS, and it's Palantir
that's managing that data as
part of HHS protect and all of
that stuff. So yeah, I mean,
it's literally still exists. But
no one's complaining and
mainstream media now. You know
what I mean? Yeah. But they did
in 2003. So I think a lot of
this media consolidation that
started that got really crazy in
the Reagan era, you know, and
then by the 2000s, roughly, you
have like six companies owned at
all, but then you still have
journalists that have platforms,
right, that are complaining and
allowed to publish that. No, I
think they had to tighten their
control of like mainstream media
to a big degree. But now you
have mainstream interest in
mainstream media like cratering?
Hugely because people know that,
I think even on a subconscious
level that like they're not
being told the whole truth about
what's going on anymore.
Yeah, I think that they could
have been could have gotten away
with it like really easily and
maybe the first year or a year
and a half of COVID. But as it's
gone on, I think that the the
shock effect, I think, just
started to wear off and with
that kind of a more critical
attitude.
Yeah, but you're not really
seeing it in mainstream media.
You know what I mean? You Yeah,
yeah. And if you're an
independent, independent,
independent media, you're going
to be like sidelined, or
Yeah, well, the censorship is
only getting worse. Right? So
anyway, I don't I'm, you know, I
hope that my, that the book has
an effect, but I just, you know,
I don't count on mainstream
media to help me out with that
one, you know what I mean? So
come from people that read the
book, and like it, and so far,
people that have read it, have
really liked it, you know, some
review copies of have gone out,
somehow managed to get through
both volumes, which is like, 900
pages. Yeah, not a quick read.
And it's dense too. So, you
know, but reviews are very
positive. So that's awesome. You
know, it's, I'm happy that
people are gonna, are liking it
so far, because I really hope
people read it. Because, you
know, ultimately, you know,
talking about this type of
stuff. And what we talked about
today, I mean, these problems
haven't gone away. And if they
could get away with the stuff in
the 1990s, I mean, it's mental.
And you know, as we in the book,
unravel more about Middleton, it
becomes pretty clear that one of
the crazy things that seems to
have gone on under the surface
of this other stuff that we we
talked about today was just a
huge amount of text transfer,
and like weapons, smuggling, and
all this stuff, and a lot of it
happening in the United States.
And it really seems to be a
story that's like, on level with
what Gary Webb wrote about. In
Dark Alliance with the CIA
creating the crack epidemic in
urban communities, you have
basically the same groups, and
it looks like Southern Air
Transport involved with Wexner
is delimited was involved in
bringing these weapons to fuel
gang violence in the same areas
that were being targeted by the
CIA with the crack epidemic. And
that's totally mental. Because
the whole idea of that was to
pump, you know, private prisons
full of African Americans, and
basically, you know, use private
prison labor in the slavery's
back, you know, and there's a
whole nother side to this. And
it looks like it was going on
right in the middle of the
Clinton administration, who of
course, have I read unconscious
stuff? I mean, that's totally
nuts. So yeah, I'm not gonna get
invited on the New York Magazine
panel or whatever. Talking about
this stuff, I answered questions
about Epstein. Yeah, I have
many. You're not gonna like any
of them. These are the questions
you don't want to be answered.
My big hope, you know, it's like
when, you know, helping you with
this research, I feel like I
ended up with just hundreds and
hundreds of like, questions that
I wanted to answered. Like, I
just felt like we just like, in
a lot of ways that I felt like I
was just posing questions,
instead of like answering them.
And I'm hoping that as the book
comes out, like maybe people who
have information, you know, can
come forward.
Some people have mentioned that,
and I really hope that happens,
because this whole thing with
Middleton in Southern Air
Transport with the limited and
this this Chinese weapons stuff,
is nuts. And I really like I
wish I had more time to get to
the bottom of it. But you know,
it was sort of like, crunch
time. And you know, I can't make
the book like 1500 pages and
three volumes, you know, I'm
just gonna wait for that volume
three to come out.
Oh, man, don't even talk to me
about that. Like, sorry, sorry.
Oh, man. Yeah, I mean, I need a
little bit of breathing space,
you know, but anyway, the whole
point is, there's a lot to come
out. And this was, like, 30
years ago. And I mean, think
about all the stuff that's
happened then that we don't know
about. I mean, there's a lot of
work to be done here. So anyway,
Thanks, Ed. So much for helping
me piece together a lot of
what's in the book. And a lot
of, you know, I think it's a
good reference to build off of,
and that's what I hope the book,
the books will be for people. So
you know, we can figure out
who's really running the
country, and, you know, the US
Empire, because it's not just
the US, you know, client states
and all of that. So, anyway,
where can people listen to your
podcasts and support you and
learn about how amazing and
great you are?
Well, let's see the podcast.
That's the pseudo doxology
podcast, and you can find that
on Patreon. Then, I guess where
I'm most prolific, because we're
really mad about having a
consistently running podcast.
People can find me on Twitter.
Twitter is at EB burger, and
that's B ERG er, so yeah, give
me a follow. Because,
yeah, a lot of the stuff like
the thing you mentioned about
Adnan Khashoggi and King
Solomon's mine, you can find
little gems like that on Ed's
Twitter feed. If you want to
know about these, these crazy
people during this period of
time and there's there's really
no shortage of them. With that
being said, hopefully people
have a better idea of who Marc
Middleton is why he probably
ended up dead but you may have
more questions and answers just
like we do. But you know, that's
how that's how research and
investigations work you know,
it's it takes time to get to the
bottom of stuff, especially when
multiple administration's are
trying to keep you from finding
out about it. So again, F for
people are interested in hearing
updates about the book or
knowing about updates about the
book or following my work, you
can go to unlimited
hangout.com/newsletters Sign up
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bottom of all our newsletters is
info about how to purchase the
book, either in a bundle form to
get both volumes for a reduced
price or where to buy one or two
separately. The best way in
general, especially if you want
the bundle is just to go
straight to the publisher, which
is trying de A T ri in e de.com.
And if you go to upcoming
releases, you might have to go
to the second page. But you can
find the the bundle there for
sale as well as volumes one and
two. You can also buy on Amazon
or you know any other number of
places, but the bundle is
definitely going to be the most
cost effective. And soon there's
going to be an ebook and audio
book version available. So that
may be most cost effective for
some people, because that's both
volumes together. But that will
be available after the physical
copies out. So if you're
particularly eager to read the
book, you may have to settle for
the physical copy. But I
personally like physical copies.
It's nice to hold the book and
not have to look at a screen
while you're reading relatively
dense text about the criminal
syndicates in their history that
run our world. So again, thanks
everyone for listening. And
hopefully, if you're if you
found this informative, since no
one else is really covering
work, Middleton feel free to
share this widely with people
you think might be interested in
these kinds of topics. And yeah,
so thanks everyone and catch you
all next time.