Hey there and welcome to
Whitney Webb. We're longer than
warfare has been a major concern
state. In recent decades. One of
information war has not just
more specifically social media
modern era has become the
and these platforms have come to
socialization and communication
Yet unbeknownst to most users of
standing efforts by social media
national security state to
a variety of unsettling ways,
manipulation to the propagation
benefit big tech, and more often
in my work for several years has
national security state have
big tech companies today double
contractors, and many of these
stories that are directly linked
intelligence agencies. In the
fusion has also been taking
dangerous and insidious,
advances in artificial
writers who has been doing great
is today's guest Alan McLeod.
MintPress news as well as the
propaganda in the information
Consent. He has contributed to
Groza, and Jacobin, and has also
articles. Several of his recent
expose the increasing fusion of
Security states of the US and
CIA agents deciding Facebook's
former Israeli spies working in
Microsoft. So thanks for joining
unlimited hangout.
Great to be with you.
I'm doing well. It's summer
here in Chile. I'm hoping you're
hear it's been a bit cold up
Yeah, it has been but
Well,
good to hear. So Alan, I'm
of the big scoops of the Twitter
number of national security
But when I first heard that I
pretty sure Allen wrote about
finals were even a thing. And
article entitled, The Federal
hiring an alarming number of FBI
back during your investigation
since the Twitter files has it
under Emperor Ilan?
Yes, so what I find was
incredible investigative
This was really research done
just went to employment
and LinkedIn, and started
was actually on Twitter's board.
about how you know, Twitter,
or takes, for instance, Donald
really hear about who is
I really wanted to know, and
that. And what I found was
amount of people in Twitter's
politically sensitive fields,
trust, and safety or security,
ex CIA. They are basically
states. And very, very often
their jobs at the government,
parachuted into the higher ranks
of two things, either that
from these agencies, or that
between the US government and
quid pro quo going on whereby
in these agents to help modify
them politically or
seems to be very startling and
more people should know about
example of this Are the people
2019, hired Don Barton, who was
senior innovation advisor to the
Senior Director of Strategy of
policy and trust and safety at
and dozens of examples of this
come in, I don't think the
very much. We have seen Musk
what I can see a lot of the
hired a year two years three
most part in their jobs. And
worrying, especially if you are
Musk is cleaning house and it's
deep state from political
think that that's going on at
Yeah, well, I think that's
evidence. And we can talk about
because you as well as myself
pointing out Elon Musk, very
security, state of military
nature. So one of the other
supposedly scandalous
the collusion between the FBI
know, what we just what you just
hiring a lot of former FBI
in June, again, well, before the
that in September 2020, Twitter
FBI, for their close
support about protecting the
you know, that a month later, I
company Twitter announced that
intelligence and essentially,
that certain accounts be
essentially, the big revelation,
terms of how it was promoted,
Twitter files, but here you are
I'm very puzzled about how this
And then, you know, the whole
place and acts like it's, you
guess, when, you know, people
information, or, you know,
promoting it, you know, you
to, you know, private emails of
going on. So I'm wondering,
about why someone, you know,
these revelations, but then, you
usual, essentially, going back
revelation, about the FBIs
been made. And it just seems a
what your thoughts are.
It really is
Twitter files really explored
bones that I've been putting out
that we really have this absurd
agents will be monitoring social
emailing former FBI agents who
to delete or demote or D rank or
people, certain stories, etc.
pretty much quietly in the
about Twitter as if it's a
quarter step removed from
means of communication. And it
issue. And we should be talking
in your introduction, Twitter,
companies really are a global
the United States and its
close and firm grip over our
presents a national security
other country in the world. Why
mean, I actually talked to some
putting out the Twitter file
had been influenced by what I
has his own agenda, when it
settling certain scores. But he
group of journalists in there
started looking at things that
interested in. And so I think
floodgates kind of came through
Musk maybe didn't exactly want
out, and those for me tend to be
revelations from the Twitter
All right. So what you just
is a really important point
argument about social media, and
know, which is sort of a fine
censorship, the argument has
private companies. So they're
And so if they were public
a certain amount of regulation
do, in terms of censorship,
First Amendment issues. But what
And of course, a lot of these
that we can get to in a second,
people from the government. And,
know, at least in the case of
people from the government. So
these are just private
hard to make that anymore at the
public, private. And at worst,
the national security state. So
debate very, I don't know, a bit
you know, it's been treated
media for some time, but I think
to maintain what is really, I
are just private companies
independent private entities,
tentacles of the national
throughout all of these
work speaks to that.
Yeah, thank you very
what you were saying there, it's
at which the, you know, Silicon
security begins. These
fundamentally intertwined, to
difficult to tell them apart.
number of years, you know, these
by the US government. It comes
you know, we could talk about
see, you know, sorts of
government talks about
breaking them up. You know,
to Facebook, for instance, that
about, nationalizing Facebook,
Zuckerberg for his role in, you
theories elect Donald Trump as
after that, Facebook suddenly
The Atlantic Council, which is
Suddenly, Facebook's upper ranks
NATO guys, who are now deciding
people online. So I think
where these big Silicon Valley
ignored. And that's kind of
Well, let's
turn to Facebook for a
best articles on this topic, in
about Facebook and the ex CIA
content policy. And I was really
this Aaron Berman character who
CIA guy. And of course now he's
at Facebook. So who is Aaron
And what is his role at
Well, I guess if you're
itself, Aaron, he's just called
guy who wears purple sweaters,
moderation at Facebook. He's
moderation there. There's many
listen to him chat in very well
on content moderation, and how
range of debate while also
important to him apparently to
But the thing is, is that at no
that he was until just a couple
ranking members of the CIA. So
senior analytic manager at the
actually writing the President's
and President Trump, meaning
that those presidents would have
the Oval Office. So he was
the CIA. He was a mover and
drops that job at the agency and
extremely important position at
he's essentially deciding what 3
see, and crucially don't see in
comes to the CIA and Facebook,
environment. In fact, I was able
examples of people just from
thought and LinkedIn and writing
and it is extraordinary the
course, that's not the full
at Facebook who used to be
who actively and openly admit it
I think one of the most
CIA collusion is Scott Stern.
targeting for the CIA, for the
wondering, what does that mean
deciding where drones get struck
bombed, that is exactly what he
senior manager of risk
targets are misinformation and
really I can barely think of a
the national security state and
can just one guy like Scott scan
most important and you know,
military industrial complex, and
Silicon Valley, where he is
the time, and what content
content you're not allowed to
what's going on right now.
So one of the things that
Aaron to go back to him for a
he describes his time at the
focused on when writing
US officials, including the
influence operations on social
democracy. So to me, that
the CIA in social media. And
headhunted and joins Facebook,
people from the national
pointed out, but also, you know,
wrote about a few years ago,
director, for example, to be in
I think, now it's called
labs. They renamed it a year or
this is a long pattern for
the history of Facebook, and how
today, you know, you have the
on the map is Peter Thiel, who
the top investor. Early on in
Palantir, which was designed to
explicitly designed with the CIA
Alex Karp, Palantir, CEO
for its first three years as a
the CIA. They go to CIA
they're their product
the CIA tweak their products,
there. And then at the same
developing Palantir for the CIA,
a significant extent. And you
Thiel, but the guy that brought
Facebook, Sean Parker, who was
teenager actually because he was
that remember that as as a teen
approached by the CIA as a
it's just interesting to see
other social media companies in
their origin stories have these
you if you follow it, it's
as a company, to now and it
social media in general, because
about a program that is now
really get off the ground, but
be implemented by DARPA,
researcher arm after 911 called
they tried to rename it later,
to sound less light, less like a
surveillance, and total
to get Americans essentially
about their daily lives, where
meeting, things of that nature,
were related to this, you know,
shut down in 2004. It looks an
And I think what's interesting
Facebook and Palantir, and how
networks is that you know, a lot
information awareness was that
involved. And Peter Thiel and
correctly, I think that people
data if it was seen as up
not as part of the state. But
of this earlier, you know, some
well is that it was never really
in the way that most people have
about it, these origin stories,
companies, whether it's true or
imagine it as oh, these these
their garage in California, and
giant company. Well, for Google,
Facebook. We know that's fake.
your thoughts about that? Alan,
this? For the national security
Was this something that some of
do From their inception, you
state? Or was national security
along later?
Well, I guess it
going to pick, certainly, I
that's coming out to the
machines that really appear in
Across the world, there was this
connection and community to be
of social media was kind of
going to happen, but who
pile is not necessarily
some cases, the sort of rags to
platforms is pretty much true.
pointed out, it's really not
more going on. And a lot of
hands held by the national
I don't know too much about
very interesting what you were
length about Google's origins.
are not aware of how Google
a CIA project. In fact, Sergey
University, according to a great
Ahmed showed that the CIA and
research there, and that his
produce Google, not only that,
it, but his, his, his
person. So the CIA actually
existence. In fact, until 2005,
Google and eventually sold them,
to talk about business deals,
selling your Google stock in
we've seen
well, if you don't want to
the company, yes, going forward,
do. And I did forget to mention
investor early on and Palantir.
Another commonality between
Yeah, well, I was gonna
with the CIA, we have to talk
which is the CIA's venture
people will be surprised to know
capitalist arm. But yes, in que
help nurture a huge amount of
high tech industries in the
is from the CIA's perspective,
companies, or maybe not so small
on the cutting edge of various
with them and develop them and
their rival countries like
national security state of the
even two steps ahead of its
that's just starting in
working with the CIA is huge
unlimited source of money
you know, kudos to your company
you know, more I don't want to
certainly makes the likelihood
competitive and difficult
much more likely and so I can
companies would want to work
why in Qatar would want to work
Well, I think it's important
inky tell that it's it you know,
venture capital arm of course,
independent, blah, blah, blah.
how in Q tel structured, that's
did want to point out is that in
had a very close relationship
because the person that created
top executive at what at
Lockheed Martin, actually at the
mergers in the 90s. To become
does today. But it was Norm
in charge of Lockheed Martin at
tap to create, and Q tel for
connection worth worth keeping
earlier, in the intro for this
companies, specifically Google
US national security state,
Defense or the intelligence
intelligence agencies, like in
talked a little bit about
agencies contract with Palantir.
guess, for them, that there
door there. But it's just
engaged with this, this type of
the extent of the overlap, and I
can really use for it beyond
can't tell where one and one
point, you know, maybe you
two ago, depending on the
know, it's really hard not to
as since you were talking about
also written about Google in
meaning last year, you wrote
Google's ranks are filled with
little bit about your article
what the implications of that
essentially a monopoly on major
around the world access
through the supremacy, I guess,
Yeah, sure. So again,
with a huge amount of resources.
publicly available data on
LinkedIn, just taking things
what happens. And I was
dozens and dozens and dozens of
clearly Google employees and
admitting that they were once
thing that, you know, you would
ago for even considering, but it
Now, what's a bit more
nefarious about this is that
these Google employees that were
really being put into positions
They're not working in fields
service. They're going into
security and content moderation.
suggests a political motive for
hires. I mean, if you look at,
actually involved in trust and
understand who these people are.
Jacqueline loop, where she spent
where she served as a leading US
challenges in the Middle East.
Google in 2017, and is now the
and trust and safety manager. So
intelligence, and the brains of
say, another CIA employee,
Lazarus was a political analyst
hired as a policy advisor for
where he works on suppressing,
unquote. He now works at Apple
dozens and dozens of examples of
Google, who formerly were CIA
parachuted into these positions
is all happening silently. You
about Facebook and Twitter. And
not on these platforms, you can
really too big to ignore.
isn't affected by Google. It's
we're not really, you know,
what comes up in a Google search
people think for political
The The sort of power that
can barely be over, over
overset, this company has become
the point where it might be the
company in the world. Yeah. And
with the US national security
people in all over the world,
who often rely on Google for
services, all the while, they
all of their most important
has intimately close ties to
Yeah, I mean, it's really
Google's influence. So you know,
talked about and around the
where I live in Chile, you know,
period. And most people use also
And of course, if you don't have
Google enabled Android phone.
Google on your phone using an
Googled Android operating system
of people you know, don't know
themselves up with an operating
lot. I mean, Google really is
that, what gets left out a lot,
owned by Google and managed by,
Sergey Brin. Because he's
though. Shiki sisters. So the
sisters and the other sister is?
one of one of the other two is
23andme, the DNA testing
know, obviously, listening to
more censorship happy, since, I
Facebook and Twitter, if not
that you listed in your article
working for the CIA for over a
leadership analysis. She is now
for trust and safety at YouTube.
essentially saying, This is who
we censor? And these are the
know, longtime CIA veteran right
pretty astounding. I mean, you
were scandalized by some of
we talked about earlier about
security state more specifically
company, Twitter, why would they
and Google or any of these other
seems? I don't know, it just
discussion was so limited on
want to pick on anybody, because
were writing that stuff, we're
revelations themselves, but at
that, if not, the people that
themselves could have pointed to
problem, you know, this is not
media network, you know, this is
of them. And I would consider
media, because it's, um, there's
comments and people posting back
for years have used YouTube as a
because of course, cable news
views have gone up, it's become,
essentially a replacement for TV
that adds another level to its
And it's really not surprising
you know, a quote attributed to
director, William Casey, the CIA
the need to have large, wide
to manipulate the American
unimpeded, because it would be
sensibilities of the American
course, you know, that type of
national security state has not
then. But obviously, having a
CIA is something that's going to
an agency. But it's frankly,
you noted in your article, we
directors like Mike Pompeo being
and we steal like that's normal
course, not to mention the CIA's
against humanity and even
to mention the interests of you
know, election integrity and
meddling, what have you. And
with Google is, I don't remember
I do know that back during the
or so, Google played a major
I from what I remember, and
and for what information was
oppositional movements in
that nature, Google played a
that same period of time, you
social media for the purpose of
can talk a little bit about that
eventually made its way into the
about how the US military
users, and DARPA funded research
manipulating Occupy Wall Street
them in the Middle East,
Arab Spring. So this is
for a long time. And as
from what I've laid out here
I'm wondering, Alan, what your
type of activity, this pattern
these agencies are in these
see that impacting things from
we're considering that the
utilizing is much more advanced
Yeah, I think, if we go
YouTube group was, as YouTube,
competitor to Google Video,
YouTube, which failed to really
imagination. And the reason it
alternative to what you saw on
golden age for people who were
you could put up videos on there
know, really reach a broad
really well. And it was
algorithms back then were much
on the alternative media stuff
or Fox, or CBS or whatever,
a higher quality. And people
topics that you couldn't see, if
Unfortunately, that golden age
quick halt in the wake of the
Clinton campaign and many
intelligence community as well
on the Internet sponsored by a
Russia, was the reason that
Clinton. And in the wake of
Facebook, and all the other big
their algorithms radically to
authoritative content, and
borderline content. But the
outcome of this wasn't to kick
conspiracy theories, what it
opportunity and yeah, the
quality alternative media
the ass of corporate media on
years. So for instance, the eye
90% of its Google search
its Facebook traffic, within a
even much more established
Last 19%, democracy now lost 36%
And so what I really understand
happened in early 2017, to be
campaign, which was in the
media, and the Democratic Party,
state to kind of re tighten
communication, which had really
years with the rise of the
social media really did offer an
information news and views from.
as we've been laying out for the
sort of powerplay from the US
control over the means of
there's very few people talking
probably going to get worse
when people do talk about this
There is a lot of interest from
of people sense that this is
actually have The details.
Yeah, I think that's, that's
you know, a lot, there's so much
on a lot of these platforms that
them become outraged, they're
it, I either stop participating
platforms, but then I can't
this content or do this or that,
there are alternatives for you
becoming increasingly more
like rumble, for instance, is
particular political ideology,
most censored by YouTube, for
robust alternatives there. But
Facebook, there have been
social media networks. I mean,
point, but none of them have
seems like people have sort of
platforms in a sense, and that's
wish to change major aspects of
practices and things like that,
to them fusing with the national
kind of hard as a, as a single
influence on on on those
okay with you, I'd like to turn
that we haven't talked about
and alternative media to an
of its utility for you know, the
industrial complex, tick tock.
probably familiar with sound
Rogan and other podcasts of that
tock is basically a surveillance
for people like that, I would
ignore the fact that, you know,
you know, surveillance companies
surveillance entities on the
with some of the social media
other companies we've already
Facebook and Google, you know,
revelations from Edward Snowden
lot of pretty much all of big
with the NSA with very little
about, you know, essentially
constitutional rights. But
often made about tick tock in
know, it's being used by the
purpose of surveillance. But
your article, the NATO, the Tick
employing so many national
course, a lot more to this
pretty much points out, tick
intelligence people. And I don't
might be? Alan?
Yeah. So it's, it's
is one of the only major social
one that is not actually an
think of social media networks
entities which don't really are
they're, you know, international
they usually have bricks and
California, and they are subject
a little bit different, because
company bytedance. And I think
sparked huge, huge concern in
tick tock wasn't going to be as
to manipulate as the other ones.
remember this big push by the
tick tock to even sell, its
to an American company like
being totally shut down in the
company actually had secured a
remember the exact amount, but
the US operation of Tiktok to
though, this big hysteria over a
kids was just dropped. It was
had stopped hearing about it. In
surprised to hear that his his
basically nixed, and he didn't
why as well for the longest
and two together when I started
implied in the higher echelons
that at exactly the same point
making noise about tick tock
tool was exactly the same point
NATO and other big national
were being hired by tick tock
company to run its most
like Google and Facebook, they
marketing or customer service.
content moderation, to control
safety, and insecurity. And I
think is most blatant, and
is Greg Anderson. So according
profile, until 2019, he worked
operations and quote for NATO.
immediately got put into Tiktok,
Manager. So basically, you know,
the company would, would go
just one of many, many people I
these politically sensitive
the same point that the US
noise about tick tock being
Chinese government, perhaps, you
into ticks off? Well, maybe that
they're averse to surveilling
know, perhaps that's the case.
huge, enormous example of the
here. The real danger in terms
US government, and not some
thing we should really be
ourselves.
Yeah, I think that's, that's
of makes me think also, they'll
familiar with Eric Schmidt, the
described by The New York Times
Henry Kissinger, which is
wrote a recent book with, with
AI and what it means for the
previously it's concluded its
National Security Commission on
was basically a meeting of
military, and big tech. And what
what he argues with Kissinger's
this idea that in order to avoid
an effort to essentially bring
been talking a lot about how the
tech in the US had been fusing
when he talks about China, Eric
advance that fusion even more.
as that, you know, talking about
of times these people in the US
military fusion model. But it's
what has been going on in the US
of like a semantic difference or
makes it different. But what
in order to avoid war with
state, big tech fusion in the
the equivalent in China, and
of system together. Which is a
consider that a lot of the same
Security Commission, you know,
the brinkmanship between the US
us toward, you know, world war
that's taught up touched on, for
pillagers documentary on the
there's a huge segment of that
but then you have these big tech
very much plugged in to the US
they're, you know, looking to
say, groups like, tick tock work
with sort of their equivalents
what you're talking about, in
know, tick tock Canada and tick
subsidiaries of this Chinese
accused of being, you know, a
it's merging essentially, with
relatively, you know, very much
security state. I mean, it's
to me, it ultimately speaks to
you know, want to see this
for the purpose of controlling
but beyond and also how a lot of
world, regardless of what side
may be on are very interested in
technology regardless if it's
whatever, you know, if it serves
control, they seem to be
kind of stuff.
That's very
Schmidt's new book, we should
actually left a job and the
become CEO of Google. And while
Defense Department as well. So
closely revolving door guy. He's
Washington, I have read another
called the new digital age, it
there's this incredible quote
talking about what information
says, and I've got the direct
was to the 20th century
cybersecurity companies like
quote, so what he's saying there
ideological tip of the spear for
21st century. So before it was
military, and now it's all about
and the tech industry in
advance Washington's interest.
we're seeing here. As regards to
does seem much more likely that
China rather than cooperation.
cooperation would be well,
I'm not, I'm not saying that
going to win out, I just find it
like Eric Schmidt, propagating
their specific circles, and yet,
saying similar things, because
these days is sort of like a
that this is the only way to
anyway, made by these guys, you
a military industrial complex
a lot of time and energy to
Pacific and NATO bases all
power competition war at some
pretty clear that there's a
it's worth pointing out that
been articulated by some of
sort of this area that bridges,
I just think it's worth them,
because you do see some sort of
between entities you want to
national security state and
that most people are familiar
illogical to some perhaps why
place, right? Oh, yeah. But
listen, the social
important. It really decides
what we don't see, it informs
so whenever an entity becomes
that powerful organizations,
governments will start to look
how they can hack it, how they
benefits, or how they can even
we're seeing. Sure.
Yeah, good point. Okay. So,
the podcasts, there's a couple
really one in particular that I
today, which is about a company
at the end, and you call it the
controlling the Information Age,
But grafica is doing all sorts
article, they're cited very
their claims are usually without
of mainstream media just
point out, they have a lot of
and all sorts of, you know,
I guess I'll throw it to you to
and its importance. But there's
after, there's a lot of
exact same mold that grafica is,
of created for itself. There's a
quite similar. So who is
the CIA? And how are they
information is able to be
Oh, sure. If so, I
media, you will understand
led intelligence operation,
on the dark corners of the
in this world. They describe
of the Internet age. So
Manhattan company that does
supposedly to try and bring
But that when you start looking
really crumble, not only because
company, but who is actually
first of all, they have very
it turns out these are being
Defense Advanced Research
and the Department of Defense,
Navy, and from the US Air Force
funding from the Atlantic
but name. So it's really quite
coming from that already should
your mind. But when you actually
it becomes clear that these
intelligence, or ex national
for many years. So I mean, one
head of investigations. Ben
absolutely notorious. He was
for many years. And he's now
Facebook as well. So again, this
think tanks of social media, and
all at once. We've got so many
who actually works there, what
Chris Bing, he spent 24 years at
US Army, and then moves into,
know, people led, you know,
shining a light on everything.
half years as a CIA intelligence
graphical, Lauren pen check, who
president of financial and
fact, she became the Director of
she also worked for Northrop
know, at this place. So there
examples of extremely spooky
graphical. And when you look at
it's all about Russian
Chinese interference, or Iranian
Venezuela, or whatever. And
this is basically propaganda
saying. There is a huge state
to try to convince Western
enormous state led influence
of Russia, or China or Iran,
and the source of all sorts of
It's not the internal class
fact that people at the top of
from people at the bottom is
a pesky Iranians, you know,
which has got people so worried
Well, the the idea of that
insane on its face, because the
don't agree with the official
like, its allies are, must be
like, you know, people paid for
when there's plenty for people
or any of the five eyes
about how their governments are
whether it's foreign policy,
essentially, as I've written
a way, it's a war on dissent. By
that propagates narratives that
state are treated as foreign
adjacent to foreign adversaries,
this in the concept in the
information war and information,
know, that those narratives are
matter. If you actually are
countries, or you're just a
the narrative they want to
a broad brush to paint everyone
spy, or, you know, whatever
that. And I think it's very
actually in the Biden
for the war on domestic terror.
that undermines trust in the US
essentially an act of domestic
insane. At the idea that the
terror is to have everyone in
mean, it's just nuts because the
all this has to be done. They
democracy but if your homeland
making everyone have to say the
that? There's nothing democratic
your thoughts, Alan.
Yeah, this sort of
one. You know, if anyone's
they'll know that, you know,
US government's role in starting
campaign against that, actually
lovers of Saddam, they were
they love the dictator, or maybe
secret admirers of Qaddafi, or
talking about, you know, not
they were actually in a status.
criticizing the US government
mean, actually had any love for
was the the paint which was used
you go back even further, it
the US government's role in
1980s, you were secretly a red,
This is how Martin Luther King
movement of the 60s was tired.
they were getting direction from
McCarthy's nonsense really goes
not centuries in the United
kind of twinge to it a new spin
as we're seeing a sort of slow
I suspect might get worse and
Yeah, I definitely think
said about graphic earlier, I
there that there's a lot of
similar things for the same
that I've written about in the
called primer or primer AI,
contractor for the US Air Force
Command. And in that press
develop the first ever machine
automatically identify and
So that's a very interesting
because based on what, you know,
saying anything that is against
the narrative has been set up,
Russian bot, or whatever. So
runs counter to the state
these metrics based on what
suspected, disinformation, you
proof it's disinformation only,
about what you're saying For
take it. You know, take it out
And they're very, just like a
talked about. They have a very
people and all sorts of
this interesting blog post that
and 2020, who by the way, his
he's a New Zealander. But what
created a programs for the US
and post invasion Iraq. Yeah.
domestic disinformation
in April 2020, computational
campaigns will and 2020 become a
physical war, and we will have
deployed to fight them. He then
a quote, Manhattan Project for
should be a Wikipedia style
intelligence agencies, and
for what's true or not. So
at the end of the blog post,
we will begin to weaponize the
know, this company is working
other companies that are very
information people can or can't
backing these guys as well as
people that previously were
War surge people tied to Neo
Force Intelligence us NATO. I
talking about are the people
effort to go after
context of the Air Force being
primer. What I find interesting,
Ars Technica, it says Air Force
social media to control people
Basically turn people into
guess is what I sort of get from
idea from primary AI that
decide what's truth or not for
a company stuffed with former
Air Force is contracting it to
social media networks using AI.
wanted to use social media
you know, their robotic drone,
comes across. I mean, it seems
currently underway and using AI,
knows by now is advancing pretty
but to alter people's
essentially brainwashing them, I
they're easier to control. I
insidious. And I just, you know,
don't see social media for what
any thoughts, Alan? Well, there
are so many hangers on
we've been talking about that
collectively, they're usually
Washington, DC as a think tank
Akers, which, you know,
to get that money from defense
have pivoted towards this sort
know, they're all offering to be
the fact that they have no
what I found so insidious about
narrative, meaning that if you
the, you know, collective will
that you're labeled a Russian
what we were talking about
Twitter files have really blown
narrative, to the point where we
emails that even people who are
Twitter, realize that this
from the beginning was
know, the, the emails from URL
68 dashboard, which was this,
designed to find hundreds of
misinformation, you will Ross
of Twitter saying this is
And that we have to, you know,
what he was saying in private,
along with the narrative that
problem. When you actually look
all of them are Americans, and
out who these people are. And
direct message and talk to them.
Trump right, but there were some
like Joe Lauria, the head of
Yeah, so
this kind of happens,
whole proper knot thing all over
thing where a whole bunch of
propaganda, despite the fact I
know, based in the United
obvious who they were. So I just
chapter of this ongoing
And it's important that people
otherwise, they will be fed,
sorts of misinformation.
Yeah, and not just that, but
like you and me and other people
challenge these narratives.
out of play, you know, whether
know, financial censorship, or
earlier with what happened with
I was working at MIT Press when
crazy. The amount of
be used to censor your reach and
there. I mean, it's it's really
on a massive scale. And the
pretty clearly up to no good. I
to, you know, democratic value,
to be protecting right, um,
makes the US democracy great.
speech, all of the stuff I mean,
make it only the Free Speech
entities in the American
obviously, some of their their
very, very unsettling across the
we've been going for some time
you a lot for your for your time
your important work on these on
know, like I said earlier, I
coverage about what's going on
you consider the extreme power
and also, of course, socially
our society. At and to have
of these intelligence agencies
record, whether it comes to
propping up the worst
the world dictatorships, what
the people running this
unknowingly, you know, in this
war viewed by the national
they're unaware that they're in
ultimately a war for our hearts
human, you know, on human
anyway, just thanks a lot for
this to light. Because, you
good in that sense, but really
despite of it has done a lot
the true nature of what's been
Alan.
Thank you. It's great
So anyway, how can people
Yeah, sure. Well, I
social media for about an hour,
You can find me on Twitter, Alan
if you're on Instagram, and Alan
best way to actually find my
news.com. And bookmark it just
Yeah, absolutely. And I
RSS feed. So I've talked about
in my recent ama for
you're not familiar, please look
curate your own censorship proof
tech out of the middleman as as
you see and what you don't see.
back against a lot of the
talked about today. So I know
ability to be tied to an RSS
hangout does, and a lot of other
consider adding MintPress and so
RSS feed if you if you'd like
and a lot of other people at MIT
work. Alright, so thanks a lot,
time and your work. And thanks
listening, especially people
hangout and make this podcast
much, everybody and catch you on