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Hey there and welcome to

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Whitney Webb. We're longer than

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warfare has been a major concern

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state. In recent decades. One of

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information war has not just

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more specifically social media

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modern era has become the

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and these platforms have come to

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socialization and communication

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Yet unbeknownst to most users of

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standing efforts by social media

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national security state to

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a variety of unsettling ways,

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manipulation to the propagation

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benefit big tech, and more often

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in my work for several years has

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national security state have

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big tech companies today double

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contractors, and many of these

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stories that are directly linked

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intelligence agencies. In the

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fusion has also been taking

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dangerous and insidious,

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advances in artificial

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writers who has been doing great

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is today's guest Alan McLeod.

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MintPress news as well as the

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propaganda in the information

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Consent. He has contributed to

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Groza, and Jacobin, and has also

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articles. Several of his recent

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expose the increasing fusion of

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Security states of the US and

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CIA agents deciding Facebook's

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former Israeli spies working in

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Microsoft. So thanks for joining

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unlimited hangout.

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Great to be with you.

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I'm doing well. It's summer

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here in Chile. I'm hoping you're

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hear it's been a bit cold up

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Yeah, it has been but

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Well,

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good to hear. So Alan, I'm

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of the big scoops of the Twitter

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number of national security

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But when I first heard that I

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pretty sure Allen wrote about

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finals were even a thing. And

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article entitled, The Federal

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hiring an alarming number of FBI

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back during your investigation

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since the Twitter files has it

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under Emperor Ilan?

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Yes, so what I find was

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incredible investigative

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This was really research done

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just went to employment

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and LinkedIn, and started

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was actually on Twitter's board.

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about how you know, Twitter,

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or takes, for instance, Donald

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really hear about who is

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I really wanted to know, and

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that. And what I found was

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amount of people in Twitter's

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politically sensitive fields,

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trust, and safety or security,

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ex CIA. They are basically

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states. And very, very often

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their jobs at the government,

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parachuted into the higher ranks

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of two things, either that

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from these agencies, or that

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between the US government and

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quid pro quo going on whereby

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in these agents to help modify

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them politically or

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seems to be very startling and

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more people should know about

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example of this Are the people

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2019, hired Don Barton, who was

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senior innovation advisor to the

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Senior Director of Strategy of

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policy and trust and safety at

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and dozens of examples of this

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come in, I don't think the

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very much. We have seen Musk

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what I can see a lot of the

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hired a year two years three

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most part in their jobs. And

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worrying, especially if you are

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Musk is cleaning house and it's

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deep state from political

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think that that's going on at

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Yeah, well, I think that's

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evidence. And we can talk about

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because you as well as myself

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pointing out Elon Musk, very

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security, state of military

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nature. So one of the other

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supposedly scandalous

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the collusion between the FBI

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know, what we just what you just

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hiring a lot of former FBI

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in June, again, well, before the

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that in September 2020, Twitter

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FBI, for their close

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support about protecting the

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you know, that a month later, I

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company Twitter announced that

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intelligence and essentially,

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that certain accounts be

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essentially, the big revelation,

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terms of how it was promoted,

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Twitter files, but here you are

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I'm very puzzled about how this

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And then, you know, the whole

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place and acts like it's, you

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guess, when, you know, people

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information, or, you know,

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promoting it, you know, you

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to, you know, private emails of

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going on. So I'm wondering,

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about why someone, you know,

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these revelations, but then, you

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usual, essentially, going back

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revelation, about the FBIs

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been made. And it just seems a

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what your thoughts are.

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It really is

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Twitter files really explored

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bones that I've been putting out

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that we really have this absurd

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agents will be monitoring social

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emailing former FBI agents who

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to delete or demote or D rank or

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people, certain stories, etc.

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pretty much quietly in the

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about Twitter as if it's a

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quarter step removed from

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means of communication. And it

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issue. And we should be talking

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in your introduction, Twitter,

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companies really are a global

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the United States and its

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close and firm grip over our

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presents a national security

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other country in the world. Why

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mean, I actually talked to some

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putting out the Twitter file

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had been influenced by what I

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has his own agenda, when it

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settling certain scores. But he

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group of journalists in there

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started looking at things that

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interested in. And so I think

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floodgates kind of came through

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Musk maybe didn't exactly want

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out, and those for me tend to be

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revelations from the Twitter

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All right. So what you just

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is a really important point

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argument about social media, and

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know, which is sort of a fine

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censorship, the argument has

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private companies. So they're

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And so if they were public

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a certain amount of regulation

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do, in terms of censorship,

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First Amendment issues. But what

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And of course, a lot of these

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that we can get to in a second,

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people from the government. And,

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know, at least in the case of

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people from the government. So

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these are just private

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hard to make that anymore at the

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public, private. And at worst,

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the national security state. So

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debate very, I don't know, a bit

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you know, it's been treated

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media for some time, but I think

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to maintain what is really, I

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are just private companies

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independent private entities,

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tentacles of the national

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throughout all of these

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work speaks to that.

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Yeah, thank you very

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what you were saying there, it's

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at which the, you know, Silicon

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security begins. These

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fundamentally intertwined, to

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difficult to tell them apart.

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number of years, you know, these

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by the US government. It comes

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you know, we could talk about

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see, you know, sorts of

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government talks about

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breaking them up. You know,

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to Facebook, for instance, that

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about, nationalizing Facebook,

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Zuckerberg for his role in, you

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theories elect Donald Trump as

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after that, Facebook suddenly

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The Atlantic Council, which is

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Suddenly, Facebook's upper ranks

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NATO guys, who are now deciding

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people online. So I think

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where these big Silicon Valley

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ignored. And that's kind of

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Well, let's

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turn to Facebook for a

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best articles on this topic, in

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about Facebook and the ex CIA

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content policy. And I was really

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this Aaron Berman character who

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CIA guy. And of course now he's

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at Facebook. So who is Aaron

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And what is his role at

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Well, I guess if you're

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itself, Aaron, he's just called

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guy who wears purple sweaters,

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moderation at Facebook. He's

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moderation there. There's many

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listen to him chat in very well

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on content moderation, and how

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range of debate while also

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important to him apparently to

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But the thing is, is that at no

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that he was until just a couple

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ranking members of the CIA. So

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senior analytic manager at the

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actually writing the President's

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and President Trump, meaning

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that those presidents would have

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the Oval Office. So he was

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the CIA. He was a mover and

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drops that job at the agency and

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extremely important position at

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he's essentially deciding what 3

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see, and crucially don't see in

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comes to the CIA and Facebook,

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environment. In fact, I was able

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examples of people just from

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thought and LinkedIn and writing

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and it is extraordinary the

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course, that's not the full

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at Facebook who used to be

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who actively and openly admit it

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I think one of the most

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CIA collusion is Scott Stern.

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targeting for the CIA, for the

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wondering, what does that mean

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deciding where drones get struck

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bombed, that is exactly what he

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senior manager of risk

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targets are misinformation and

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really I can barely think of a

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the national security state and

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can just one guy like Scott scan

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most important and you know,

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military industrial complex, and

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Silicon Valley, where he is

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the time, and what content

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content you're not allowed to

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what's going on right now.

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So one of the things that

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Aaron to go back to him for a

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he describes his time at the

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focused on when writing

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US officials, including the

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influence operations on social

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democracy. So to me, that

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the CIA in social media. And

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headhunted and joins Facebook,

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people from the national

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pointed out, but also, you know,

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wrote about a few years ago,

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director, for example, to be in

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I think, now it's called

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labs. They renamed it a year or

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this is a long pattern for

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the history of Facebook, and how

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today, you know, you have the

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on the map is Peter Thiel, who

288
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:33,420
the top investor. Early on in

289
00:17:33,420 --> 00:17:37,440
Palantir, which was designed to

290
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,550
explicitly designed with the CIA

291
00:17:41,550 --> 00:17:46,560
Alex Karp, Palantir, CEO

292
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,010
for its first three years as a

293
00:17:50,010 --> 00:17:54,030
the CIA. They go to CIA

294
00:17:54,030 --> 00:17:56,940
they're their product

295
00:17:56,940 --> 00:18:00,180
the CIA tweak their products,

296
00:18:00,180 --> 00:18:04,770
there. And then at the same

297
00:18:04,770 --> 00:18:08,850
developing Palantir for the CIA,

298
00:18:08,850 --> 00:18:12,180
a significant extent. And you

299
00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:14,550
Thiel, but the guy that brought

300
00:18:14,550 --> 00:18:18,960
Facebook, Sean Parker, who was

301
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,660
teenager actually because he was

302
00:18:21,660 --> 00:18:26,670
that remember that as as a teen

303
00:18:26,670 --> 00:18:31,230
approached by the CIA as a

304
00:18:31,230 --> 00:18:34,920
it's just interesting to see

305
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,320
other social media companies in

306
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,280
their origin stories have these

307
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,310
you if you follow it, it's

308
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:49,440
as a company, to now and it

309
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:54,090
social media in general, because

310
00:18:54,090 --> 00:18:57,870
about a program that is now

311
00:18:57,870 --> 00:19:01,230
really get off the ground, but

312
00:19:01,230 --> 00:19:03,510
be implemented by DARPA,

313
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:07,470
researcher arm after 911 called

314
00:19:07,470 --> 00:19:10,830
they tried to rename it later,

315
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:16,170
to sound less light, less like a

316
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:21,240
surveillance, and total

317
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:26,070
to get Americans essentially

318
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:28,740
about their daily lives, where

319
00:19:28,740 --> 00:19:32,130
meeting, things of that nature,

320
00:19:32,130 --> 00:19:36,000
were related to this, you know,

321
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,390
shut down in 2004. It looks an

322
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,930
And I think what's interesting

323
00:19:42,930 --> 00:19:45,810
Facebook and Palantir, and how

324
00:19:45,810 --> 00:19:48,570
networks is that you know, a lot

325
00:19:48,570 --> 00:19:51,720
information awareness was that

326
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,380
involved. And Peter Thiel and

327
00:19:55,380 --> 00:19:58,320
correctly, I think that people

328
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,160
data if it was seen as up

329
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,000
not as part of the state. But

330
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,730
of this earlier, you know, some

331
00:20:08,730 --> 00:20:13,410
well is that it was never really

332
00:20:13,410 --> 00:20:17,520
in the way that most people have

333
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,340
about it, these origin stories,

334
00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:23,250
companies, whether it's true or

335
00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:26,040
imagine it as oh, these these

336
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,370
their garage in California, and

337
00:20:29,370 --> 00:20:31,740
giant company. Well, for Google,

338
00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:36,000
Facebook. We know that's fake.

339
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,400
your thoughts about that? Alan,

340
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,030
this? For the national security

341
00:20:42,030 --> 00:20:45,390
Was this something that some of

342
00:20:45,390 --> 00:20:49,680
do From their inception, you

343
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,730
state? Or was national security

344
00:20:53,730 --> 00:20:54,510
along later?

345
00:20:54,990 --> 00:20:57,870
Well, I guess it

346
00:20:57,870 --> 00:21:00,540
going to pick, certainly, I

347
00:21:00,540 --> 00:21:03,600
that's coming out to the

348
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,770
machines that really appear in

349
00:21:08,790 --> 00:21:12,570
Across the world, there was this

350
00:21:12,570 --> 00:21:16,740
connection and community to be

351
00:21:16,740 --> 00:21:19,860
of social media was kind of

352
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:23,370
going to happen, but who

353
00:21:23,370 --> 00:21:27,450
pile is not necessarily

354
00:21:27,450 --> 00:21:32,340
some cases, the sort of rags to

355
00:21:32,340 --> 00:21:36,060
platforms is pretty much true.

356
00:21:36,060 --> 00:21:39,390
pointed out, it's really not

357
00:21:39,390 --> 00:21:42,570
more going on. And a lot of

358
00:21:42,570 --> 00:21:46,020
hands held by the national

359
00:21:46,290 --> 00:21:48,540
I don't know too much about

360
00:21:48,540 --> 00:21:51,150
very interesting what you were

361
00:21:51,150 --> 00:21:55,320
length about Google's origins.

362
00:21:55,380 --> 00:21:59,220
are not aware of how Google

363
00:21:59,220 --> 00:22:04,560
a CIA project. In fact, Sergey

364
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,520
University, according to a great

365
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,980
Ahmed showed that the CIA and

366
00:22:13,980 --> 00:22:17,610
research there, and that his

367
00:22:17,610 --> 00:22:20,820
produce Google, not only that,

368
00:22:20,820 --> 00:22:25,650
it, but his, his, his

369
00:22:25,650 --> 00:22:29,940
person. So the CIA actually

370
00:22:29,970 --> 00:22:34,650
existence. In fact, until 2005,

371
00:22:34,650 --> 00:22:38,790
Google and eventually sold them,

372
00:22:38,790 --> 00:22:41,520
to talk about business deals,

373
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,350
selling your Google stock in

374
00:22:46,350 --> 00:22:46,860
we've seen

375
00:22:46,890 --> 00:22:49,110
well, if you don't want to

376
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:51,930
the company, yes, going forward,

377
00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:55,680
do. And I did forget to mention

378
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,800
investor early on and Palantir.

379
00:22:59,490 --> 00:23:03,420
Another commonality between

380
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,190
Yeah, well, I was gonna

381
00:23:08,610 --> 00:23:12,480
with the CIA, we have to talk

382
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,230
which is the CIA's venture

383
00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:18,990
people will be surprised to know

384
00:23:18,990 --> 00:23:23,340
capitalist arm. But yes, in que

385
00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:30,090
help nurture a huge amount of

386
00:23:30,090 --> 00:23:33,240
high tech industries in the

387
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,140
is from the CIA's perspective,

388
00:23:37,140 --> 00:23:40,590
companies, or maybe not so small

389
00:23:40,590 --> 00:23:44,850
on the cutting edge of various

390
00:23:44,850 --> 00:23:49,110
with them and develop them and

391
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:52,830
their rival countries like

392
00:23:52,830 --> 00:23:55,920
national security state of the

393
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,930
even two steps ahead of its

394
00:24:01,170 --> 00:24:06,300
that's just starting in

395
00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:08,910
working with the CIA is huge

396
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:15,030
unlimited source of money

397
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:19,500
you know, kudos to your company

398
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,290
you know, more I don't want to

399
00:24:22,290 --> 00:24:25,740
certainly makes the likelihood

400
00:24:25,740 --> 00:24:30,180
competitive and difficult

401
00:24:30,180 --> 00:24:33,090
much more likely and so I can

402
00:24:33,090 --> 00:24:36,030
companies would want to work

403
00:24:36,030 --> 00:24:38,190
why in Qatar would want to work

404
00:24:38,489 --> 00:24:40,559
Well, I think it's important

405
00:24:40,589 --> 00:24:44,189
inky tell that it's it you know,

406
00:24:44,189 --> 00:24:47,039
venture capital arm of course,

407
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:49,319
independent, blah, blah, blah.

408
00:24:49,319 --> 00:24:53,609
how in Q tel structured, that's

409
00:24:53,609 --> 00:24:57,419
did want to point out is that in

410
00:24:57,419 --> 00:25:01,259
had a very close relationship

411
00:25:01,259 --> 00:25:05,339
because the person that created

412
00:25:05,339 --> 00:25:08,249
top executive at what at

413
00:25:08,249 --> 00:25:10,169
Lockheed Martin, actually at the

414
00:25:10,169 --> 00:25:13,829
mergers in the 90s. To become

415
00:25:13,829 --> 00:25:17,129
does today. But it was Norm

416
00:25:17,129 --> 00:25:20,219
in charge of Lockheed Martin at

417
00:25:20,219 --> 00:25:25,019
tap to create, and Q tel for

418
00:25:25,019 --> 00:25:27,839
connection worth worth keeping

419
00:25:27,869 --> 00:25:31,769
earlier, in the intro for this

420
00:25:31,769 --> 00:25:36,719
companies, specifically Google

421
00:25:36,719 --> 00:25:39,359
US national security state,

422
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,289
Defense or the intelligence

423
00:25:43,289 --> 00:25:45,659
intelligence agencies, like in

424
00:25:45,659 --> 00:25:49,439
talked a little bit about

425
00:25:49,439 --> 00:25:53,999
agencies contract with Palantir.

426
00:25:53,999 --> 00:25:56,879
guess, for them, that there

427
00:25:56,879 --> 00:26:00,479
door there. But it's just

428
00:26:00,479 --> 00:26:03,509
engaged with this, this type of

429
00:26:03,989 --> 00:26:07,019
the extent of the overlap, and I

430
00:26:07,019 --> 00:26:11,639
can really use for it beyond

431
00:26:11,639 --> 00:26:14,639
can't tell where one and one

432
00:26:14,639 --> 00:26:17,219
point, you know, maybe you

433
00:26:17,219 --> 00:26:20,549
two ago, depending on the

434
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:24,869
know, it's really hard not to

435
00:26:24,929 --> 00:26:27,239
as since you were talking about

436
00:26:27,239 --> 00:26:33,449
also written about Google in

437
00:26:33,479 --> 00:26:37,049
meaning last year, you wrote

438
00:26:37,259 --> 00:26:40,139
Google's ranks are filled with

439
00:26:40,139 --> 00:26:43,529
little bit about your article

440
00:26:43,529 --> 00:26:46,259
what the implications of that

441
00:26:46,259 --> 00:26:52,109
essentially a monopoly on major

442
00:26:52,109 --> 00:26:55,139
around the world access

443
00:26:55,739 --> 00:26:58,499
through the supremacy, I guess,

444
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:03,480
Yeah, sure. So again,

445
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,420
with a huge amount of resources.

446
00:27:06,420 --> 00:27:10,800
publicly available data on

447
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,640
LinkedIn, just taking things

448
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,790
what happens. And I was

449
00:27:17,790 --> 00:27:22,920
dozens and dozens and dozens of

450
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,750
clearly Google employees and

451
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:32,070
admitting that they were once

452
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:35,490
thing that, you know, you would

453
00:27:35,490 --> 00:27:38,640
ago for even considering, but it

454
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,250
Now, what's a bit more

455
00:27:41,250 --> 00:27:44,640
nefarious about this is that

456
00:27:44,850 --> 00:27:49,350
these Google employees that were

457
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:55,170
really being put into positions

458
00:27:55,260 --> 00:27:58,260
They're not working in fields

459
00:27:58,260 --> 00:28:01,680
service. They're going into

460
00:28:01,830 --> 00:28:05,640
security and content moderation.

461
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:10,950
suggests a political motive for

462
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:16,650
hires. I mean, if you look at,

463
00:28:16,650 --> 00:28:20,790
actually involved in trust and

464
00:28:20,790 --> 00:28:25,200
understand who these people are.

465
00:28:25,230 --> 00:28:28,890
Jacqueline loop, where she spent

466
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,030
where she served as a leading US

467
00:28:33,030 --> 00:28:36,660
challenges in the Middle East.

468
00:28:36,660 --> 00:28:41,190
Google in 2017, and is now the

469
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:45,570
and trust and safety manager. So

470
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,430
intelligence, and the brains of

471
00:28:50,430 --> 00:28:55,440
say, another CIA employee,

472
00:28:55,530 --> 00:29:00,060
Lazarus was a political analyst

473
00:29:00,060 --> 00:29:03,570
hired as a policy advisor for

474
00:29:03,810 --> 00:29:07,980
where he works on suppressing,

475
00:29:08,010 --> 00:29:13,020
unquote. He now works at Apple

476
00:29:13,020 --> 00:29:19,710
dozens and dozens of examples of

477
00:29:19,710 --> 00:29:24,000
Google, who formerly were CIA

478
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,140
parachuted into these positions

479
00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:31,620
is all happening silently. You

480
00:29:31,620 --> 00:29:34,350
about Facebook and Twitter. And

481
00:29:34,350 --> 00:29:37,590
not on these platforms, you can

482
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:41,250
really too big to ignore.

483
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:45,690
isn't affected by Google. It's

484
00:29:45,690 --> 00:29:50,400
we're not really, you know,

485
00:29:50,430 --> 00:29:54,300
what comes up in a Google search

486
00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:59,160
people think for political

487
00:29:59,730 --> 00:30:04,500
The The sort of power that

488
00:30:04,590 --> 00:30:09,600
can barely be over, over

489
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,970
overset, this company has become

490
00:30:14,970 --> 00:30:17,790
the point where it might be the

491
00:30:17,790 --> 00:30:22,620
company in the world. Yeah. And

492
00:30:22,620 --> 00:30:26,400
with the US national security

493
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,570
people in all over the world,

494
00:30:30,570 --> 00:30:34,950
who often rely on Google for

495
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:39,480
services, all the while, they

496
00:30:40,020 --> 00:30:43,500
all of their most important

497
00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:46,560
has intimately close ties to

498
00:30:46,979 --> 00:30:49,319
Yeah, I mean, it's really

499
00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:51,809
Google's influence. So you know,

500
00:30:51,809 --> 00:30:55,379
talked about and around the

501
00:30:55,379 --> 00:30:58,229
where I live in Chile, you know,

502
00:30:58,229 --> 00:31:02,129
period. And most people use also

503
00:31:02,789 --> 00:31:05,639
And of course, if you don't have

504
00:31:05,639 --> 00:31:09,509
Google enabled Android phone.

505
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:12,119
Google on your phone using an

506
00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:16,319
Googled Android operating system

507
00:31:16,319 --> 00:31:19,709
of people you know, don't know

508
00:31:19,709 --> 00:31:22,889
themselves up with an operating

509
00:31:22,889 --> 00:31:25,949
lot. I mean, Google really is

510
00:31:25,949 --> 00:31:30,239
that, what gets left out a lot,

511
00:31:30,539 --> 00:31:34,259
owned by Google and managed by,

512
00:31:34,259 --> 00:31:38,669
Sergey Brin. Because he's

513
00:31:38,669 --> 00:31:41,939
though. Shiki sisters. So the

514
00:31:41,939 --> 00:31:44,849
sisters and the other sister is?

515
00:31:44,849 --> 00:31:48,269
one of one of the other two is

516
00:31:48,269 --> 00:31:54,749
23andme, the DNA testing

517
00:31:54,749 --> 00:31:58,709
know, obviously, listening to

518
00:31:58,709 --> 00:32:03,869
more censorship happy, since, I

519
00:32:03,869 --> 00:32:08,129
Facebook and Twitter, if not

520
00:32:08,129 --> 00:32:11,849
that you listed in your article

521
00:32:11,849 --> 00:32:15,869
working for the CIA for over a

522
00:32:15,869 --> 00:32:20,279
leadership analysis. She is now

523
00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:24,419
for trust and safety at YouTube.

524
00:32:24,419 --> 00:32:26,939
essentially saying, This is who

525
00:32:26,939 --> 00:32:29,819
we censor? And these are the

526
00:32:29,819 --> 00:32:35,099
know, longtime CIA veteran right

527
00:32:35,099 --> 00:32:38,159
pretty astounding. I mean, you

528
00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:40,469
were scandalized by some of

529
00:32:40,469 --> 00:32:42,749
we talked about earlier about

530
00:32:42,749 --> 00:32:46,559
security state more specifically

531
00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:49,739
company, Twitter, why would they

532
00:32:49,739 --> 00:32:53,279
and Google or any of these other

533
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:57,089
seems? I don't know, it just

534
00:32:57,089 --> 00:33:00,839
discussion was so limited on

535
00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:04,319
want to pick on anybody, because

536
00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:07,379
were writing that stuff, we're

537
00:33:07,379 --> 00:33:10,439
revelations themselves, but at

538
00:33:10,439 --> 00:33:12,479
that, if not, the people that

539
00:33:12,479 --> 00:33:16,469
themselves could have pointed to

540
00:33:16,469 --> 00:33:20,339
problem, you know, this is not

541
00:33:20,339 --> 00:33:23,459
media network, you know, this is

542
00:33:23,459 --> 00:33:25,859
of them. And I would consider

543
00:33:25,859 --> 00:33:28,499
media, because it's, um, there's

544
00:33:28,499 --> 00:33:32,279
comments and people posting back

545
00:33:32,879 --> 00:33:36,299
for years have used YouTube as a

546
00:33:36,299 --> 00:33:39,359
because of course, cable news

547
00:33:39,359 --> 00:33:42,269
views have gone up, it's become,

548
00:33:42,269 --> 00:33:45,989
essentially a replacement for TV

549
00:33:45,989 --> 00:33:50,159
that adds another level to its

550
00:33:50,189 --> 00:33:53,099
And it's really not surprising

551
00:33:53,099 --> 00:33:57,929
you know, a quote attributed to

552
00:33:57,929 --> 00:34:01,859
director, William Casey, the CIA

553
00:34:01,859 --> 00:34:06,059
the need to have large, wide

554
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:10,709
to manipulate the American

555
00:34:10,709 --> 00:34:13,859
unimpeded, because it would be

556
00:34:13,859 --> 00:34:16,499
sensibilities of the American

557
00:34:16,499 --> 00:34:19,649
course, you know, that type of

558
00:34:19,649 --> 00:34:23,309
national security state has not

559
00:34:23,309 --> 00:34:27,749
then. But obviously, having a

560
00:34:27,749 --> 00:34:32,879
CIA is something that's going to

561
00:34:32,879 --> 00:34:36,719
an agency. But it's frankly,

562
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,079
you noted in your article, we

563
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:43,619
directors like Mike Pompeo being

564
00:34:43,619 --> 00:34:48,299
and we steal like that's normal

565
00:34:48,299 --> 00:34:52,079
course, not to mention the CIA's

566
00:34:52,319 --> 00:34:55,949
against humanity and even

567
00:34:55,949 --> 00:35:00,179
to mention the interests of you

568
00:35:00,179 --> 00:35:02,429
know, election integrity and

569
00:35:02,429 --> 00:35:06,059
meddling, what have you. And

570
00:35:06,059 --> 00:35:09,779
with Google is, I don't remember

571
00:35:09,779 --> 00:35:14,999
I do know that back during the

572
00:35:14,999 --> 00:35:19,409
or so, Google played a major

573
00:35:19,409 --> 00:35:22,829
I from what I remember, and

574
00:35:22,829 --> 00:35:26,279
and for what information was

575
00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:30,509
oppositional movements in

576
00:35:30,509 --> 00:35:33,509
that nature, Google played a

577
00:35:33,509 --> 00:35:37,739
that same period of time, you

578
00:35:37,799 --> 00:35:41,549
social media for the purpose of

579
00:35:41,549 --> 00:35:45,569
can talk a little bit about that

580
00:35:45,569 --> 00:35:48,029
eventually made its way into the

581
00:35:48,029 --> 00:35:50,699
about how the US military

582
00:35:50,699 --> 00:35:54,119
users, and DARPA funded research

583
00:35:54,119 --> 00:35:57,629
manipulating Occupy Wall Street

584
00:35:57,629 --> 00:36:00,869
them in the Middle East,

585
00:36:00,869 --> 00:36:03,389
Arab Spring. So this is

586
00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:07,109
for a long time. And as

587
00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:10,919
from what I've laid out here

588
00:36:10,919 --> 00:36:13,859
I'm wondering, Alan, what your

589
00:36:13,859 --> 00:36:16,769
type of activity, this pattern

590
00:36:16,769 --> 00:36:19,619
these agencies are in these

591
00:36:19,619 --> 00:36:22,919
see that impacting things from

592
00:36:22,919 --> 00:36:24,899
we're considering that the

593
00:36:24,899 --> 00:36:28,049
utilizing is much more advanced

594
00:36:28,980 --> 00:36:33,630
Yeah, I think, if we go

595
00:36:33,630 --> 00:36:37,800
YouTube group was, as YouTube,

596
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,490
competitor to Google Video,

597
00:36:41,490 --> 00:36:44,790
YouTube, which failed to really

598
00:36:44,820 --> 00:36:47,940
imagination. And the reason it

599
00:36:47,940 --> 00:36:51,630
alternative to what you saw on

600
00:36:51,630 --> 00:36:56,310
golden age for people who were

601
00:36:56,550 --> 00:37:00,090
you could put up videos on there

602
00:37:00,090 --> 00:37:03,810
know, really reach a broad

603
00:37:03,810 --> 00:37:06,570
really well. And it was

604
00:37:06,570 --> 00:37:10,500
algorithms back then were much

605
00:37:10,530 --> 00:37:14,220
on the alternative media stuff

606
00:37:14,220 --> 00:37:17,850
or Fox, or CBS or whatever,

607
00:37:17,850 --> 00:37:20,820
a higher quality. And people

608
00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:24,390
topics that you couldn't see, if

609
00:37:24,750 --> 00:37:28,740
Unfortunately, that golden age

610
00:37:28,740 --> 00:37:34,110
quick halt in the wake of the

611
00:37:34,110 --> 00:37:37,080
Clinton campaign and many

612
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,490
intelligence community as well

613
00:37:41,490 --> 00:37:45,840
on the Internet sponsored by a

614
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,170
Russia, was the reason that

615
00:37:49,170 --> 00:37:53,790
Clinton. And in the wake of

616
00:37:53,790 --> 00:37:58,380
Facebook, and all the other big

617
00:37:58,380 --> 00:38:02,010
their algorithms radically to

618
00:38:03,030 --> 00:38:06,180
authoritative content, and

619
00:38:06,270 --> 00:38:09,870
borderline content. But the

620
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:14,040
outcome of this wasn't to kick

621
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,990
conspiracy theories, what it

622
00:38:19,020 --> 00:38:24,750
opportunity and yeah, the

623
00:38:24,750 --> 00:38:27,960
quality alternative media

624
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,110
the ass of corporate media on

625
00:38:31,110 --> 00:38:35,370
years. So for instance, the eye

626
00:38:35,370 --> 00:38:39,570
90% of its Google search

627
00:38:39,570 --> 00:38:42,930
its Facebook traffic, within a

628
00:38:43,230 --> 00:38:46,830
even much more established

629
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:52,440
Last 19%, democracy now lost 36%

630
00:38:52,770 --> 00:38:57,420
And so what I really understand

631
00:38:57,420 --> 00:39:01,620
happened in early 2017, to be

632
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,340
campaign, which was in the

633
00:39:05,340 --> 00:39:09,960
media, and the Democratic Party,

634
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,470
state to kind of re tighten

635
00:39:13,470 --> 00:39:17,670
communication, which had really

636
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:20,790
years with the rise of the

637
00:39:20,790 --> 00:39:25,260
social media really did offer an

638
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:29,970
information news and views from.

639
00:39:31,380 --> 00:39:34,770
as we've been laying out for the

640
00:39:34,770 --> 00:39:40,140
sort of powerplay from the US

641
00:39:40,140 --> 00:39:43,590
control over the means of

642
00:39:43,740 --> 00:39:46,200
there's very few people talking

643
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,110
probably going to get worse

644
00:39:49,110 --> 00:39:53,610
when people do talk about this

645
00:39:53,730 --> 00:39:57,030
There is a lot of interest from

646
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:59,550
of people sense that this is

647
00:39:59,550 --> 00:40:00,750
actually have The details.

648
00:40:01,290 --> 00:40:03,900
Yeah, I think that's, that's

649
00:40:03,900 --> 00:40:06,960
you know, a lot, there's so much

650
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,860
on a lot of these platforms that

651
00:40:10,860 --> 00:40:13,590
them become outraged, they're

652
00:40:13,590 --> 00:40:18,510
it, I either stop participating

653
00:40:18,510 --> 00:40:21,390
platforms, but then I can't

654
00:40:21,390 --> 00:40:24,510
this content or do this or that,

655
00:40:24,540 --> 00:40:28,320
there are alternatives for you

656
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,350
becoming increasingly more

657
00:40:31,350 --> 00:40:34,200
like rumble, for instance, is

658
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:39,180
particular political ideology,

659
00:40:39,180 --> 00:40:42,750
most censored by YouTube, for

660
00:40:42,750 --> 00:40:45,180
robust alternatives there. But

661
00:40:45,180 --> 00:40:48,960
Facebook, there have been

662
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,600
social media networks. I mean,

663
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,200
point, but none of them have

664
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,080
seems like people have sort of

665
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,280
platforms in a sense, and that's

666
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,300
wish to change major aspects of

667
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:09,690
practices and things like that,

668
00:41:09,690 --> 00:41:11,880
to them fusing with the national

669
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,120
kind of hard as a, as a single

670
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,740
influence on on on those

671
00:41:19,740 --> 00:41:23,430
okay with you, I'd like to turn

672
00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:27,090
that we haven't talked about

673
00:41:27,090 --> 00:41:30,900
and alternative media to an

674
00:41:30,930 --> 00:41:35,460
of its utility for you know, the

675
00:41:35,460 --> 00:41:39,960
industrial complex, tick tock.

676
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,110
probably familiar with sound

677
00:41:43,110 --> 00:41:45,990
Rogan and other podcasts of that

678
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:50,130
tock is basically a surveillance

679
00:41:50,310 --> 00:41:53,520
for people like that, I would

680
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,090
ignore the fact that, you know,

681
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,750
you know, surveillance companies

682
00:42:00,750 --> 00:42:04,530
surveillance entities on the

683
00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:08,070
with some of the social media

684
00:42:08,070 --> 00:42:10,110
other companies we've already

685
00:42:10,110 --> 00:42:12,870
Facebook and Google, you know,

686
00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:15,870
revelations from Edward Snowden

687
00:42:15,870 --> 00:42:18,540
lot of pretty much all of big

688
00:42:18,870 --> 00:42:22,500
with the NSA with very little

689
00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:25,680
about, you know, essentially

690
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,380
constitutional rights. But

691
00:42:28,380 --> 00:42:31,380
often made about tick tock in

692
00:42:31,380 --> 00:42:33,510
know, it's being used by the

693
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:38,100
purpose of surveillance. But

694
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:40,860
your article, the NATO, the Tick

695
00:42:40,860 --> 00:42:43,890
employing so many national

696
00:42:43,890 --> 00:42:48,030
course, a lot more to this

697
00:42:48,060 --> 00:42:54,000
pretty much points out, tick

698
00:42:54,030 --> 00:42:58,650
intelligence people. And I don't

699
00:42:58,650 --> 00:42:59,670
might be? Alan?

700
00:43:00,420 --> 00:43:03,780
Yeah. So it's, it's

701
00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:07,680
is one of the only major social

702
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,460
one that is not actually an

703
00:43:11,460 --> 00:43:16,410
think of social media networks

704
00:43:16,890 --> 00:43:21,090
entities which don't really are

705
00:43:21,090 --> 00:43:24,720
they're, you know, international

706
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:29,340
they usually have bricks and

707
00:43:29,340 --> 00:43:32,820
California, and they are subject

708
00:43:32,820 --> 00:43:36,030
a little bit different, because

709
00:43:36,030 --> 00:43:40,140
company bytedance. And I think

710
00:43:41,370 --> 00:43:45,450
sparked huge, huge concern in

711
00:43:45,450 --> 00:43:48,930
tick tock wasn't going to be as

712
00:43:48,930 --> 00:43:53,880
to manipulate as the other ones.

713
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,630
remember this big push by the

714
00:43:57,630 --> 00:44:01,740
tick tock to even sell, its

715
00:44:01,740 --> 00:44:06,420
to an American company like

716
00:44:06,420 --> 00:44:11,520
being totally shut down in the

717
00:44:11,550 --> 00:44:16,980
company actually had secured a

718
00:44:16,980 --> 00:44:19,890
remember the exact amount, but

719
00:44:19,890 --> 00:44:24,120
the US operation of Tiktok to

720
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,380
though, this big hysteria over a

721
00:44:28,380 --> 00:44:31,860
kids was just dropped. It was

722
00:44:31,890 --> 00:44:35,130
had stopped hearing about it. In

723
00:44:35,130 --> 00:44:39,570
surprised to hear that his his

724
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,320
basically nixed, and he didn't

725
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,560
why as well for the longest

726
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,650
and two together when I started

727
00:44:49,860 --> 00:44:53,700
implied in the higher echelons

728
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:56,550
that at exactly the same point

729
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:59,970
making noise about tick tock

730
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,370
tool was exactly the same point

731
00:45:05,370 --> 00:45:10,740
NATO and other big national

732
00:45:10,860 --> 00:45:15,240
were being hired by tick tock

733
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:19,530
company to run its most

734
00:45:19,530 --> 00:45:21,960
like Google and Facebook, they

735
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,050
marketing or customer service.

736
00:45:25,050 --> 00:45:28,530
content moderation, to control

737
00:45:28,530 --> 00:45:32,340
safety, and insecurity. And I

738
00:45:32,340 --> 00:45:35,940
think is most blatant, and

739
00:45:36,210 --> 00:45:41,280
is Greg Anderson. So according

740
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:47,010
profile, until 2019, he worked

741
00:45:47,010 --> 00:45:53,880
operations and quote for NATO.

742
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:58,320
immediately got put into Tiktok,

743
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,920
Manager. So basically, you know,

744
00:46:01,950 --> 00:46:07,680
the company would, would go

745
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,310
just one of many, many people I

746
00:46:11,310 --> 00:46:14,790
these politically sensitive

747
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:17,400
the same point that the US

748
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,260
noise about tick tock being

749
00:46:22,260 --> 00:46:25,290
Chinese government, perhaps, you

750
00:46:25,290 --> 00:46:28,260
into ticks off? Well, maybe that

751
00:46:28,260 --> 00:46:31,440
they're averse to surveilling

752
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,590
know, perhaps that's the case.

753
00:46:34,590 --> 00:46:38,460
huge, enormous example of the

754
00:46:38,460 --> 00:46:42,480
here. The real danger in terms

755
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,660
US government, and not some

756
00:46:45,660 --> 00:46:48,150
thing we should really be

757
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:48,810
ourselves.

758
00:46:49,110 --> 00:46:51,870
Yeah, I think that's, that's

759
00:46:51,870 --> 00:46:55,710
of makes me think also, they'll

760
00:46:55,710 --> 00:47:00,090
familiar with Eric Schmidt, the

761
00:47:00,090 --> 00:47:03,150
described by The New York Times

762
00:47:03,150 --> 00:47:06,180
Henry Kissinger, which is

763
00:47:06,180 --> 00:47:11,190
wrote a recent book with, with

764
00:47:11,220 --> 00:47:15,120
AI and what it means for the

765
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,050
previously it's concluded its

766
00:47:19,050 --> 00:47:22,440
National Security Commission on

767
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,200
was basically a meeting of

768
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,910
military, and big tech. And what

769
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:34,800
what he argues with Kissinger's

770
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:40,320
this idea that in order to avoid

771
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,770
an effort to essentially bring

772
00:47:43,770 --> 00:47:46,500
been talking a lot about how the

773
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:51,720
tech in the US had been fusing

774
00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:54,750
when he talks about China, Eric

775
00:47:54,780 --> 00:47:59,910
advance that fusion even more.

776
00:47:59,910 --> 00:48:02,250
as that, you know, talking about

777
00:48:02,250 --> 00:48:04,560
of times these people in the US

778
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,920
military fusion model. But it's

779
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,070
what has been going on in the US

780
00:48:11,070 --> 00:48:15,090
of like a semantic difference or

781
00:48:15,090 --> 00:48:17,550
makes it different. But what

782
00:48:17,550 --> 00:48:20,940
in order to avoid war with

783
00:48:20,940 --> 00:48:24,420
state, big tech fusion in the

784
00:48:24,420 --> 00:48:28,170
the equivalent in China, and

785
00:48:28,170 --> 00:48:32,580
of system together. Which is a

786
00:48:32,580 --> 00:48:36,120
consider that a lot of the same

787
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,970
Security Commission, you know,

788
00:48:38,970 --> 00:48:42,750
the brinkmanship between the US

789
00:48:42,750 --> 00:48:45,510
us toward, you know, world war

790
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:48,480
that's taught up touched on, for

791
00:48:48,510 --> 00:48:50,910
pillagers documentary on the

792
00:48:50,910 --> 00:48:53,610
there's a huge segment of that

793
00:48:53,610 --> 00:48:56,580
but then you have these big tech

794
00:48:56,580 --> 00:49:00,540
very much plugged in to the US

795
00:49:00,540 --> 00:49:03,030
they're, you know, looking to

796
00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:06,810
say, groups like, tick tock work

797
00:49:06,810 --> 00:49:11,280
with sort of their equivalents

798
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,140
what you're talking about, in

799
00:49:13,140 --> 00:49:16,140
know, tick tock Canada and tick

800
00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:19,740
subsidiaries of this Chinese

801
00:49:19,740 --> 00:49:23,190
accused of being, you know, a

802
00:49:23,220 --> 00:49:26,760
it's merging essentially, with

803
00:49:26,790 --> 00:49:29,940
relatively, you know, very much

804
00:49:29,940 --> 00:49:33,180
security state. I mean, it's

805
00:49:33,180 --> 00:49:36,000
to me, it ultimately speaks to

806
00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:41,430
you know, want to see this

807
00:49:41,460 --> 00:49:44,520
for the purpose of controlling

808
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,220
but beyond and also how a lot of

809
00:49:47,220 --> 00:49:51,060
world, regardless of what side

810
00:49:51,060 --> 00:49:54,180
may be on are very interested in

811
00:49:54,180 --> 00:49:57,840
technology regardless if it's

812
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,410
whatever, you know, if it serves

813
00:50:01,410 --> 00:50:03,930
control, they seem to be

814
00:50:03,930 --> 00:50:04,560
kind of stuff.

815
00:50:05,100 --> 00:50:07,170
That's very

816
00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:10,110
Schmidt's new book, we should

817
00:50:10,110 --> 00:50:13,110
actually left a job and the

818
00:50:13,110 --> 00:50:16,950
become CEO of Google. And while

819
00:50:16,950 --> 00:50:21,000
Defense Department as well. So

820
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,000
closely revolving door guy. He's

821
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,970
Washington, I have read another

822
00:50:26,970 --> 00:50:30,900
called the new digital age, it

823
00:50:30,900 --> 00:50:34,320
there's this incredible quote

824
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:39,180
talking about what information

825
00:50:39,180 --> 00:50:42,840
says, and I've got the direct

826
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,260
was to the 20th century

827
00:50:46,260 --> 00:50:50,850
cybersecurity companies like

828
00:50:50,850 --> 00:50:55,200
quote, so what he's saying there

829
00:50:55,230 --> 00:51:00,030
ideological tip of the spear for

830
00:51:00,030 --> 00:51:03,870
21st century. So before it was

831
00:51:03,870 --> 00:51:08,310
military, and now it's all about

832
00:51:08,430 --> 00:51:11,430
and the tech industry in

833
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:14,490
advance Washington's interest.

834
00:51:14,490 --> 00:51:18,150
we're seeing here. As regards to

835
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:22,470
does seem much more likely that

836
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:25,020
China rather than cooperation.

837
00:51:25,020 --> 00:51:26,700
cooperation would be well,

838
00:51:26,730 --> 00:51:29,730
I'm not, I'm not saying that

839
00:51:29,730 --> 00:51:32,970
going to win out, I just find it

840
00:51:32,970 --> 00:51:36,780
like Eric Schmidt, propagating

841
00:51:36,780 --> 00:51:40,020
their specific circles, and yet,

842
00:51:40,020 --> 00:51:43,050
saying similar things, because

843
00:51:43,050 --> 00:51:48,540
these days is sort of like a

844
00:51:48,540 --> 00:51:51,360
that this is the only way to

845
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,140
anyway, made by these guys, you

846
00:51:55,290 --> 00:51:59,400
a military industrial complex

847
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,950
a lot of time and energy to

848
00:52:01,950 --> 00:52:05,190
Pacific and NATO bases all

849
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:08,130
power competition war at some

850
00:52:08,130 --> 00:52:11,190
pretty clear that there's a

851
00:52:11,220 --> 00:52:16,110
it's worth pointing out that

852
00:52:16,110 --> 00:52:19,140
been articulated by some of

853
00:52:19,230 --> 00:52:23,310
sort of this area that bridges,

854
00:52:23,340 --> 00:52:26,160
I just think it's worth them,

855
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:30,000
because you do see some sort of

856
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,970
between entities you want to

857
00:52:32,970 --> 00:52:35,400
national security state and

858
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,860
that most people are familiar

859
00:52:38,490 --> 00:52:41,730
illogical to some perhaps why

860
00:52:41,730 --> 00:52:43,440
place, right? Oh, yeah. But

861
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,340
listen, the social

862
00:52:47,340 --> 00:52:51,120
important. It really decides

863
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,840
what we don't see, it informs

864
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,920
so whenever an entity becomes

865
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,190
that powerful organizations,

866
00:53:02,190 --> 00:53:05,250
governments will start to look

867
00:53:05,250 --> 00:53:08,400
how they can hack it, how they

868
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,180
benefits, or how they can even

869
00:53:12,180 --> 00:53:12,990
we're seeing. Sure.

870
00:53:13,890 --> 00:53:18,060
Yeah, good point. Okay. So,

871
00:53:18,060 --> 00:53:20,910
the podcasts, there's a couple

872
00:53:20,910 --> 00:53:23,280
really one in particular that I

873
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:28,350
today, which is about a company

874
00:53:28,650 --> 00:53:31,920
at the end, and you call it the

875
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,360
controlling the Information Age,

876
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,890
But grafica is doing all sorts

877
00:53:40,890 --> 00:53:43,980
article, they're cited very

878
00:53:44,610 --> 00:53:50,220
their claims are usually without

879
00:53:50,220 --> 00:53:54,000
of mainstream media just

880
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,140
point out, they have a lot of

881
00:53:58,140 --> 00:54:03,720
and all sorts of, you know,

882
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:07,260
I guess I'll throw it to you to

883
00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:11,130
and its importance. But there's

884
00:54:11,130 --> 00:54:14,400
after, there's a lot of

885
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:18,570
exact same mold that grafica is,

886
00:54:18,570 --> 00:54:21,180
of created for itself. There's a

887
00:54:21,180 --> 00:54:24,420
quite similar. So who is

888
00:54:24,420 --> 00:54:28,650
the CIA? And how are they

889
00:54:28,650 --> 00:54:32,040
information is able to be

890
00:54:32,100 --> 00:54:34,440
Oh, sure. If so, I

891
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:39,570
media, you will understand

892
00:54:39,570 --> 00:54:43,860
led intelligence operation,

893
00:54:43,890 --> 00:54:47,100
on the dark corners of the

894
00:54:47,130 --> 00:54:50,850
in this world. They describe

895
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,330
of the Internet age. So

896
00:54:54,330 --> 00:54:57,840
Manhattan company that does

897
00:54:58,470 --> 00:55:01,680
supposedly to try and bring

898
00:55:02,010 --> 00:55:05,190
But that when you start looking

899
00:55:05,190 --> 00:55:09,570
really crumble, not only because

900
00:55:09,570 --> 00:55:13,650
company, but who is actually

901
00:55:13,650 --> 00:55:17,460
first of all, they have very

902
00:55:17,460 --> 00:55:20,760
it turns out these are being

903
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,870
Defense Advanced Research

904
00:55:24,870 --> 00:55:28,860
and the Department of Defense,

905
00:55:28,860 --> 00:55:32,340
Navy, and from the US Air Force

906
00:55:32,370 --> 00:55:35,730
funding from the Atlantic

907
00:55:35,730 --> 00:55:40,560
but name. So it's really quite

908
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:45,540
coming from that already should

909
00:55:45,540 --> 00:55:49,620
your mind. But when you actually

910
00:55:49,830 --> 00:55:53,670
it becomes clear that these

911
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:58,950
intelligence, or ex national

912
00:55:58,950 --> 00:56:02,760
for many years. So I mean, one

913
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,810
head of investigations. Ben

914
00:56:06,810 --> 00:56:11,430
absolutely notorious. He was

915
00:56:11,430 --> 00:56:14,130
for many years. And he's now

916
00:56:14,130 --> 00:56:17,850
Facebook as well. So again, this

917
00:56:18,060 --> 00:56:22,980
think tanks of social media, and

918
00:56:23,010 --> 00:56:27,930
all at once. We've got so many

919
00:56:27,930 --> 00:56:31,050
who actually works there, what

920
00:56:31,050 --> 00:56:36,150
Chris Bing, he spent 24 years at

921
00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:40,050
US Army, and then moves into,

922
00:56:40,050 --> 00:56:42,870
know, people led, you know,

923
00:56:42,870 --> 00:56:46,590
shining a light on everything.

924
00:56:46,590 --> 00:56:50,850
half years as a CIA intelligence

925
00:56:50,850 --> 00:56:56,100
graphical, Lauren pen check, who

926
00:56:56,100 --> 00:57:00,030
president of financial and

927
00:57:00,030 --> 00:57:03,900
fact, she became the Director of

928
00:57:03,900 --> 00:57:06,900
she also worked for Northrop

929
00:57:06,900 --> 00:57:11,160
know, at this place. So there

930
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,640
examples of extremely spooky

931
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,910
graphical. And when you look at

932
00:57:18,060 --> 00:57:22,650
it's all about Russian

933
00:57:22,650 --> 00:57:25,920
Chinese interference, or Iranian

934
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:30,600
Venezuela, or whatever. And

935
00:57:30,630 --> 00:57:33,720
this is basically propaganda

936
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,710
saying. There is a huge state

937
00:57:37,740 --> 00:57:41,040
to try to convince Western

938
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:45,180
enormous state led influence

939
00:57:45,180 --> 00:57:49,380
of Russia, or China or Iran,

940
00:57:49,410 --> 00:57:54,840
and the source of all sorts of

941
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,840
It's not the internal class

942
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,860
fact that people at the top of

943
00:58:01,860 --> 00:58:05,100
from people at the bottom is

944
00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:08,490
a pesky Iranians, you know,

945
00:58:08,490 --> 00:58:11,040
which has got people so worried

946
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,090
Well, the the idea of that

947
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,330
insane on its face, because the

948
00:58:18,330 --> 00:58:22,290
don't agree with the official

949
00:58:22,290 --> 00:58:28,110
like, its allies are, must be

950
00:58:28,110 --> 00:58:31,920
like, you know, people paid for

951
00:58:32,130 --> 00:58:36,930
when there's plenty for people

952
00:58:36,930 --> 00:58:39,420
or any of the five eyes

953
00:58:39,420 --> 00:58:42,270
about how their governments are

954
00:58:42,300 --> 00:58:45,240
whether it's foreign policy,

955
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,690
essentially, as I've written

956
00:58:48,690 --> 00:58:53,730
a way, it's a war on dissent. By

957
00:58:53,730 --> 00:58:56,730
that propagates narratives that

958
00:58:56,730 --> 00:58:59,880
state are treated as foreign

959
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:03,660
adjacent to foreign adversaries,

960
00:59:03,690 --> 00:59:06,210
this in the concept in the

961
00:59:06,210 --> 00:59:09,300
information war and information,

962
00:59:09,300 --> 00:59:11,910
know, that those narratives are

963
00:59:11,910 --> 00:59:14,760
matter. If you actually are

964
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,610
countries, or you're just a

965
00:59:17,610 --> 00:59:20,040
the narrative they want to

966
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:23,310
a broad brush to paint everyone

967
00:59:23,310 --> 00:59:27,270
spy, or, you know, whatever

968
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:30,540
that. And I think it's very

969
00:59:30,540 --> 00:59:32,880
actually in the Biden

970
00:59:33,150 --> 00:59:36,570
for the war on domestic terror.

971
00:59:36,570 --> 00:59:40,710
that undermines trust in the US

972
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:44,910
essentially an act of domestic

973
00:59:44,910 --> 00:59:48,600
insane. At the idea that the

974
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,620
terror is to have everyone in

975
00:59:52,620 --> 00:59:55,530
mean, it's just nuts because the

976
00:59:55,530 --> 00:59:58,620
all this has to be done. They

977
00:59:58,620 --> 01:00:01,290
democracy but if your homeland

978
01:00:01,290 --> 01:00:04,770
making everyone have to say the

979
01:00:04,770 --> 01:00:08,160
that? There's nothing democratic

980
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:08,850
your thoughts, Alan.

981
01:00:09,210 --> 01:00:11,880
Yeah, this sort of

982
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,400
one. You know, if anyone's

983
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,730
they'll know that, you know,

984
01:00:17,730 --> 01:00:21,240
US government's role in starting

985
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:25,050
campaign against that, actually

986
01:00:25,050 --> 01:00:28,140
lovers of Saddam, they were

987
01:00:28,410 --> 01:00:32,010
they love the dictator, or maybe

988
01:00:32,010 --> 01:00:35,490
secret admirers of Qaddafi, or

989
01:00:35,490 --> 01:00:38,280
talking about, you know, not

990
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:42,720
they were actually in a status.

991
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,780
criticizing the US government

992
01:00:45,780 --> 01:00:49,590
mean, actually had any love for

993
01:00:49,590 --> 01:00:54,240
was the the paint which was used

994
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:58,320
you go back even further, it

995
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,440
the US government's role in

996
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:05,580
1980s, you were secretly a red,

997
01:01:05,790 --> 01:01:09,090
This is how Martin Luther King

998
01:01:09,090 --> 01:01:12,540
movement of the 60s was tired.

999
01:01:12,570 --> 01:01:15,960
they were getting direction from

1000
01:01:16,260 --> 01:01:21,060
McCarthy's nonsense really goes

1001
01:01:21,060 --> 01:01:24,150
not centuries in the United

1002
01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:30,150
kind of twinge to it a new spin

1003
01:01:30,180 --> 01:01:33,840
as we're seeing a sort of slow

1004
01:01:33,870 --> 01:01:37,050
I suspect might get worse and

1005
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,200
Yeah, I definitely think

1006
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,650
said about graphic earlier, I

1007
01:01:43,650 --> 01:01:46,140
there that there's a lot of

1008
01:01:46,140 --> 01:01:50,430
similar things for the same

1009
01:01:50,430 --> 01:01:53,070
that I've written about in the

1010
01:01:53,070 --> 01:01:58,920
called primer or primer AI,

1011
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,130
contractor for the US Air Force

1012
01:02:02,130 --> 01:02:05,940
Command. And in that press

1013
01:02:05,940 --> 01:02:09,450
develop the first ever machine

1014
01:02:09,450 --> 01:02:14,610
automatically identify and

1015
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,330
So that's a very interesting

1016
01:02:18,330 --> 01:02:22,080
because based on what, you know,

1017
01:02:22,110 --> 01:02:26,100
saying anything that is against

1018
01:02:26,100 --> 01:02:28,860
the narrative has been set up,

1019
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,940
Russian bot, or whatever. So

1020
01:02:32,940 --> 01:02:35,490
runs counter to the state

1021
01:02:35,700 --> 01:02:38,610
these metrics based on what

1022
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,340
suspected, disinformation, you

1023
01:02:41,340 --> 01:02:44,940
proof it's disinformation only,

1024
01:02:44,940 --> 01:02:48,810
about what you're saying For

1025
01:02:48,810 --> 01:02:54,270
take it. You know, take it out

1026
01:02:54,900 --> 01:02:57,150
And they're very, just like a

1027
01:02:57,150 --> 01:03:02,220
talked about. They have a very

1028
01:03:02,220 --> 01:03:06,270
people and all sorts of

1029
01:03:06,270 --> 01:03:10,890
this interesting blog post that

1030
01:03:10,890 --> 01:03:13,470
and 2020, who by the way, his

1031
01:03:13,470 --> 01:03:16,620
he's a New Zealander. But what

1032
01:03:16,620 --> 01:03:20,310
created a programs for the US

1033
01:03:20,550 --> 01:03:24,600
and post invasion Iraq. Yeah.

1034
01:03:25,170 --> 01:03:28,230
domestic disinformation

1035
01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:31,620
in April 2020, computational

1036
01:03:31,620 --> 01:03:34,920
campaigns will and 2020 become a

1037
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:38,070
physical war, and we will have

1038
01:03:38,070 --> 01:03:41,790
deployed to fight them. He then

1039
01:03:41,790 --> 01:03:46,740
a quote, Manhattan Project for

1040
01:03:46,740 --> 01:03:50,910
should be a Wikipedia style

1041
01:03:50,910 --> 01:03:55,350
intelligence agencies, and

1042
01:03:55,350 --> 01:03:59,100
for what's true or not. So

1043
01:03:59,100 --> 01:04:02,070
at the end of the blog post,

1044
01:04:02,070 --> 01:04:06,540
we will begin to weaponize the

1045
01:04:06,540 --> 01:04:11,790
know, this company is working

1046
01:04:12,780 --> 01:04:16,170
other companies that are very

1047
01:04:16,170 --> 01:04:19,710
information people can or can't

1048
01:04:19,830 --> 01:04:23,190
backing these guys as well as

1049
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:27,210
people that previously were

1050
01:04:27,210 --> 01:04:31,530
War surge people tied to Neo

1051
01:04:31,530 --> 01:04:33,900
Force Intelligence us NATO. I

1052
01:04:33,900 --> 01:04:38,190
talking about are the people

1053
01:04:38,190 --> 01:04:41,040
effort to go after

1054
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,700
context of the Air Force being

1055
01:04:44,700 --> 01:04:48,090
primer. What I find interesting,

1056
01:04:48,090 --> 01:04:51,720
Ars Technica, it says Air Force

1057
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:57,210
social media to control people

1058
01:04:57,390 --> 01:05:01,080
Basically turn people into

1059
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:05,220
guess is what I sort of get from

1060
01:05:05,220 --> 01:05:08,130
idea from primary AI that

1061
01:05:08,130 --> 01:05:12,240
decide what's truth or not for

1062
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:14,970
a company stuffed with former

1063
01:05:14,970 --> 01:05:18,870
Air Force is contracting it to

1064
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:22,200
social media networks using AI.

1065
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:24,750
wanted to use social media

1066
01:05:24,990 --> 01:05:29,040
you know, their robotic drone,

1067
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:33,300
comes across. I mean, it seems

1068
01:05:33,330 --> 01:05:36,990
currently underway and using AI,

1069
01:05:36,990 --> 01:05:42,720
knows by now is advancing pretty

1070
01:05:42,750 --> 01:05:46,860
but to alter people's

1071
01:05:47,340 --> 01:05:51,780
essentially brainwashing them, I

1072
01:05:51,780 --> 01:05:54,510
they're easier to control. I

1073
01:05:54,510 --> 01:05:58,080
insidious. And I just, you know,

1074
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:02,280
don't see social media for what

1075
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:03,660
any thoughts, Alan? Well, there

1076
01:06:03,660 --> 01:06:06,600
are so many hangers on

1077
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:08,880
we've been talking about that

1078
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,850
collectively, they're usually

1079
01:06:11,850 --> 01:06:16,230
Washington, DC as a think tank

1080
01:06:16,230 --> 01:06:18,870
Akers, which, you know,

1081
01:06:18,870 --> 01:06:22,500
to get that money from defense

1082
01:06:22,500 --> 01:06:26,520
have pivoted towards this sort

1083
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:29,280
know, they're all offering to be

1084
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,490
the fact that they have no

1085
01:06:32,490 --> 01:06:35,970
what I found so insidious about

1086
01:06:35,970 --> 01:06:40,290
narrative, meaning that if you

1087
01:06:40,290 --> 01:06:44,400
the, you know, collective will

1088
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,580
that you're labeled a Russian

1089
01:06:47,580 --> 01:06:51,090
what we were talking about

1090
01:06:51,090 --> 01:06:55,020
Twitter files have really blown

1091
01:06:55,020 --> 01:06:58,170
narrative, to the point where we

1092
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:02,970
emails that even people who are

1093
01:07:02,970 --> 01:07:06,570
Twitter, realize that this

1094
01:07:06,690 --> 01:07:10,530
from the beginning was

1095
01:07:10,530 --> 01:07:14,760
know, the, the emails from URL

1096
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:20,040
68 dashboard, which was this,

1097
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:23,130
designed to find hundreds of

1098
01:07:23,130 --> 01:07:26,490
misinformation, you will Ross

1099
01:07:26,490 --> 01:07:30,210
of Twitter saying this is

1100
01:07:30,330 --> 01:07:33,660
And that we have to, you know,

1101
01:07:33,660 --> 01:07:35,970
what he was saying in private,

1102
01:07:35,970 --> 01:07:38,850
along with the narrative that

1103
01:07:38,850 --> 01:07:42,150
problem. When you actually look

1104
01:07:42,150 --> 01:07:45,870
all of them are Americans, and

1105
01:07:45,870 --> 01:07:48,570
out who these people are. And

1106
01:07:48,570 --> 01:07:51,300
direct message and talk to them.

1107
01:07:51,300 --> 01:07:54,750
Trump right, but there were some

1108
01:07:54,750 --> 01:07:56,970
like Joe Lauria, the head of

1109
01:07:58,140 --> 01:07:59,190
Yeah, so

1110
01:07:59,220 --> 01:08:01,500
this kind of happens,

1111
01:08:01,500 --> 01:08:05,310
whole proper knot thing all over

1112
01:08:05,310 --> 01:08:08,310
thing where a whole bunch of

1113
01:08:08,310 --> 01:08:11,940
propaganda, despite the fact I

1114
01:08:11,940 --> 01:08:14,370
know, based in the United

1115
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,730
obvious who they were. So I just

1116
01:08:17,730 --> 01:08:21,300
chapter of this ongoing

1117
01:08:21,480 --> 01:08:24,090
And it's important that people

1118
01:08:24,090 --> 01:08:26,850
otherwise, they will be fed,

1119
01:08:26,850 --> 01:08:28,080
sorts of misinformation.

1120
01:08:28,530 --> 01:08:31,230
Yeah, and not just that, but

1121
01:08:31,230 --> 01:08:34,050
like you and me and other people

1122
01:08:34,050 --> 01:08:37,110
challenge these narratives.

1123
01:08:37,110 --> 01:08:40,470
out of play, you know, whether

1124
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:43,110
know, financial censorship, or

1125
01:08:43,110 --> 01:08:46,710
earlier with what happened with

1126
01:08:46,710 --> 01:08:49,380
I was working at MIT Press when

1127
01:08:49,380 --> 01:08:53,430
crazy. The amount of

1128
01:08:53,430 --> 01:08:56,670
be used to censor your reach and

1129
01:08:56,670 --> 01:09:01,530
there. I mean, it's it's really

1130
01:09:01,590 --> 01:09:05,880
on a massive scale. And the

1131
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:09,600
pretty clearly up to no good. I

1132
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:14,250
to, you know, democratic value,

1133
01:09:14,250 --> 01:09:17,850
to be protecting right, um,

1134
01:09:17,850 --> 01:09:20,850
makes the US democracy great.

1135
01:09:20,850 --> 01:09:23,430
speech, all of the stuff I mean,

1136
01:09:23,430 --> 01:09:25,980
make it only the Free Speech

1137
01:09:25,980 --> 01:09:29,610
entities in the American

1138
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,730
obviously, some of their their

1139
01:09:32,730 --> 01:09:37,230
very, very unsettling across the

1140
01:09:37,230 --> 01:09:39,570
we've been going for some time

1141
01:09:39,570 --> 01:09:43,680
you a lot for your for your time

1142
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,010
your important work on these on

1143
01:09:47,010 --> 01:09:49,980
know, like I said earlier, I

1144
01:09:49,980 --> 01:09:52,440
coverage about what's going on

1145
01:09:52,440 --> 01:09:56,370
you consider the extreme power

1146
01:09:56,370 --> 01:09:59,520
and also, of course, socially

1147
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,490
our society. At and to have

1148
01:10:02,490 --> 01:10:06,150
of these intelligence agencies

1149
01:10:06,150 --> 01:10:09,000
record, whether it comes to

1150
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,370
propping up the worst

1151
01:10:11,370 --> 01:10:14,040
the world dictatorships, what

1152
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:18,900
the people running this

1153
01:10:18,900 --> 01:10:23,100
unknowingly, you know, in this

1154
01:10:23,100 --> 01:10:25,680
war viewed by the national

1155
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:29,640
they're unaware that they're in

1156
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:33,450
ultimately a war for our hearts

1157
01:10:33,450 --> 01:10:37,860
human, you know, on human

1158
01:10:37,860 --> 01:10:39,960
anyway, just thanks a lot for

1159
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:44,190
this to light. Because, you

1160
01:10:44,190 --> 01:10:48,090
good in that sense, but really

1161
01:10:48,090 --> 01:10:52,380
despite of it has done a lot

1162
01:10:52,860 --> 01:10:55,410
the true nature of what's been

1163
01:10:55,410 --> 01:10:55,740
Alan.

1164
01:10:56,220 --> 01:10:58,380
Thank you. It's great

1165
01:10:58,380 --> 01:11:01,410
So anyway, how can people

1166
01:11:01,440 --> 01:11:03,750
Yeah, sure. Well, I

1167
01:11:03,750 --> 01:11:07,290
social media for about an hour,

1168
01:11:07,290 --> 01:11:13,290
You can find me on Twitter, Alan

1169
01:11:13,290 --> 01:11:16,920
if you're on Instagram, and Alan

1170
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:20,610
best way to actually find my

1171
01:11:20,610 --> 01:11:24,030
news.com. And bookmark it just

1172
01:11:24,330 --> 01:11:26,700
Yeah, absolutely. And I

1173
01:11:26,700 --> 01:11:29,880
RSS feed. So I've talked about

1174
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:33,780
in my recent ama for

1175
01:11:33,780 --> 01:11:36,030
you're not familiar, please look

1176
01:11:36,030 --> 01:11:40,860
curate your own censorship proof

1177
01:11:40,860 --> 01:11:45,600
tech out of the middleman as as

1178
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:49,740
you see and what you don't see.

1179
01:11:49,740 --> 01:11:52,800
back against a lot of the

1180
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:55,890
talked about today. So I know

1181
01:11:55,890 --> 01:12:00,420
ability to be tied to an RSS

1182
01:12:00,420 --> 01:12:03,090
hangout does, and a lot of other

1183
01:12:03,090 --> 01:12:06,900
consider adding MintPress and so

1184
01:12:07,020 --> 01:12:11,430
RSS feed if you if you'd like

1185
01:12:11,430 --> 01:12:13,800
and a lot of other people at MIT

1186
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:17,580
work. Alright, so thanks a lot,

1187
01:12:17,580 --> 01:12:19,830
time and your work. And thanks

1188
01:12:19,830 --> 01:12:22,500
listening, especially people

1189
01:12:22,500 --> 01:12:25,380
hangout and make this podcast

1190
01:12:25,380 --> 01:12:27,360
much, everybody and catch you on