Hey there and welcome to
host. Whitney Webb. Since
rise of a particular clique of
capitalists has been quite
paying attention. The core of
prominent members of the so
to prominence in Silicon Valley
early executive roles at PayPal,
quickly dollarized the internet
world currency, and consulted
agency they could get a meeting
unlimited Hangouts, first
interrogating the political
entitled The Pay Pal presidency,
ambitions for healthcare and
to guide and arguably subvert
or Maha movement toward policies
ostensibly opposed during the
examining the philosophies and
the most prominent members of
Peter Thiel and Elon Musk, and
concrete US policies through the
well as Thiel proteges like
Over the last six months, major
mainstream and allegedly
portray these wealthy
unquote counter elites, arguing
challenge to the elites that had
election, while these so called
PayPal Mafia, have sought to
significantly different, At
woke, for example, are there
philosophies really functionally
elites they have supposedly
really libertarian leaning and
claimed? What motivates them and
look like? It's important we
ever. Between their wealth and
they have the ability to shape
unprecedented ways. Joining me
Davis. Iain is an independent
contributor to Unlimited
books. He is from the UK, and
Manchester attack. His recent
Unlimited Hangout, the dark
one and two delve deep into the
technocrats, many of the members
house, philosophers like Curtis
joining me today, Iain, and
Hangout.
Thank you very much,
here.
Well, as I noted just a
election, there's been a good
oligarchs now lined up behind
Vance, are counter elites, and
elites who we have been told
shadows by American voters. So
narrative regarding the so
Well, they're not counter
they're, they're oligarchs in
know, the real sense of the
converted immense wealth into
That's clearly what they're
call them oligarchs, you know,
know, the kind of things that
to move America forward and make
certainly in doing so, obviously
the world. There is, there's,
agenda that we've that we're
perhaps the other side of the
of Swabian side of the side of
rolling out top down, controlled
know, as an OP, I would say it's
proposed kind of privatized
which is, which is pretty much
oligarchy control mechanism that
of the fence, you know, if we
traditionally, people like
people are kind of very wary of,
presenting themselves as these
overreach of. Kind of globalist
certainly Republican voters,
that's probably how that they've
political authority within the
extent that they have, it's
supported by people who want to
consider to be, you know,
overreach, that what they've
that. Well, I say exactly the
that what they're proposing in
you know, we're going to go on
Dark Enlightenment. And also
know, that what technocracy
kind of systems, what they are
form of top down hierarchical
envisaged. So So you know, to
obviously Republican voters,
that, what they've got is, is,
be.
Yeah, I tend to agree with
see, like I said in the intro
difference they seem to actually
cultural veneer they put over
of cloak themselves in this, you
these things, and that seems to
difference at a fundamental
it really means anything. It
Democrats and Republicans in the
differentiate themselves largely
that's abortion or gay rights.
that's sort of been the main way
conquer, and now you're having
you know, the exact nature of
slightly and focused sort of on
things. And you know, when Trump
elites had supposedly come in.
CEOs expressing relief, because
retarded at board meetings
noted, a lot of the actual
going to be very significant in
new crop of elites really has
and more broadly the world. So
course, and I think you know
that word over the past few
included. And so I think maybe
of maybe define what technocracy
of prominent figures today, like
ideology. So would you mind
necessarily, but enlightening us
definitions there, yeah.
So first, I think it's
these people are very much on
technocracy. So we had a tweet.
Bezos, he posted to Musk, and he
is being formed before our eyes,
technocracy. So in reference to
comes out of a book the network
by Balaji sriniva. Can't
Srinivasan. And basically
come through in policy, in the
what, what Srinivasan was, was
no regulation where
particularly tech, tech,
hand to do whatever they want in
become now within the Trump
sort of understand it as
steroids, where they would
and people that would live there
the city as sort of like a
would have its own like
that.
Yeah. Yeah, so that's the
state, how to start a new
was talking about. So, so
means, you know, what would be
managed, and how would that, how
administrative zone work? Well,
technocracy. And he further
something that he published in
comment where he said, we're
development to build the Martian
there. He's spoken about,
wants to construct a
putting it in the context of
to think, well, he's not in
Earth. But obviously that that
So I think the most people
is. I think, you know, most
technocracy, they they equate it
technocratic governance. So
have experts that make policy
we think about what happened
you've got people like Fauci,
medical matters. That's that is
important that the public are
experts making decisions, and
necessarily elected politicians.
people about technocracy, if
of what it is, that's normally
but technocracy is, is is much
it, but it's much more than
system, like an operating
complete re reconfiguration of
with society entirely, and what
it what it calls a social
came out of the out of the
was a movement that was headed
other other people, you know,
oligarch interest. People like
were looking at that idea. And
break society apart completely.
social mechanism based on what
functions. So you have the
function, the industrial
by a continental control. So it
nation states. You would create
on a continental scale, and that
small group of people, no more
continental control, and in
appoint from within their ranks
would be called the continental
level of the degree of social
that is inherent to technocracy
it's not something that most
to, because it is, it is, it is
that they they are talking
human animals to be programmed
function. Are what where we go,
entirely controlled by a new
surveillance that monetary
now in the 1930s presenting that
the bureaucracy suggested by
1930s when the original
shortly, You know, briefly in
feasible thing. How would you
even a national scale, if we
alone a continental scale? But
were looking at that with
there may come a time, and
Technotronic era was very much
this of technology enabling such
to function. You know, they've
they've followed it. You know,
would very much suggest that,
trialed to a great extent in
proceeding to roll it out
computer technology AI in
that with digital ID and digital
of actually establishing
a feasible, feasible prospect.
that we've got key technocrats
technocrat Musk, you know, so,
administration.
Well, I think it's, it might
probably the first more or less
executive level in the United
actively, actively taking that
there is ostensibly to maximize
in your piece, this idea, the
animal. The goal was to engineer
animals and the human animal
their efficiency. And in
ostensible goal of this DOGE
obviously, you know, on onto
it's pretty clear that any
being hit with claims like, Oh,
defending the corruption. It's
know, in the case of, like, the
spending bill, those spending
They're full of all of these
ridiculous expenditures that
kind of been a known thing that
that there is sort of pork,
government at large that either
or through those same types of,
policies. And that is what Elon
focusing so much on the exposure
at what what is being
with the data that Musk now has
given that Musk in the PayPal
intimately involved with mass
the United States, particularly
and national security agencies,
about, and also the fact that
replace a lot of workers,
are being laid off, and a lot of
a lot of them, you know, with AI
ultimately, that has a
because whoever controls those
would have the power of those
the organization employing it,
maintains that algorithm kind of
that's sort of how I see it. So,
happening right now. Changes are
level, all under the name of
kind of made himself the the
will. But I would argue that
well, not necessarily more
equally important to sort of
now playing in the US
administration, is also the
on the large content platform He
his AI company, which is
your PC and the technocracy can
science of social engineering.
engineering human animals to
they're programmable automatons.
where the role of government
system to do that programming.
is a key part of that, and
technique dominated world, yet,
spheres of of engineering. So
I mean, I think if you, if
um. You know, it is technocracy
note, as you quite rightly said,
and something that is common to
going to talk about the Neo
idea that there's, there are
problems. So all problems,
there, there are technological
thing that you need to do in
problems is apply the right
tech, technological kind of
of very mechanistic, kind of AI
decision making is elevated,
above everything else. So
you know, all decisions are made
logical way, and that's the best
long as we obey the algorithms.
obey whatever the algorithms
world of the of the technocrats
reactionaries, will be, will be
direction now the DOGE, and it's
people's performance, and I
it, but I've seen it. I think it
saw it, but it's been described
precisely what technocracy is.
this notion of, you know,
know, large language modules,
think there's an argument to be
nowhere near this suspected
and the Neo reactionary?
Yeah, I absolutely agree.
myself, but continue,
yeah, well, I mean, we'll
this, so this, this notion that
workers we're talking about, in
quite a large swathe of the
their their futures will be
nanosecond, by a computer. And
that's, that's the decision, the
human element of that, you mean,
someone's job, someone's like,
their family, their you know
determined you that you are
are gone. And that that is, that
you know, if you boil it down to
it. That is exactly the kind of
and venerates, and that's what
what people like Musk venerate,
that is the world that they are
you know, I mean, and I think
of the kind of way that this
look, what it would look like if
installed, right? And I
relates to x, for really
mentioned just a second ago
live in this system, would need
submit to the algorithm. I
active on X lately, but I've
have been and it's generally was
know, engaged with it
was a major effort to kind of
users, namely with the x ai,
Elon Musk new AI company, after
at open AI that he also helped
asking Grok, the AI chat bot of
everything. So, like, for
opinion or a story or something
it, there are replies of people
Grok says, you know. Or, let me
you're criticizing Elon Musk.
about the thing you know. And
obviously started that to a
it's becoming. Uh, extremely
also told, though I haven't seen
with these AI generated images
Studio Ghibli engine. I guess
being the Hayao Miyazaki film
prominent and frankly wonderful
sort of animating themselves and
style, and that x is just a wash
interesting how people are sort
normalization on x of AI
answers to things, and that
I've argued this before, and
a lot of their their agency,
critical thought, or also
just, you know, algorithms in
yeah, no, I've noticed that
mean, people do say, you know,
don't have to go very far in a
saying, Well, this is what grog
think, I think when, as with any
there are potentially,
about AI. I mean, I'm not a
that, you know, that we
there are any advantages to it.
think about, you know, how we
things, or design design, you
that kind of thing, and how we
like that. Sure, what you know,
models are very, very might be
AI might be very useful. But one
on another platform, which I
we think about, you know, the
social media about all kinds of
anything, these large language
data and analyzing it, you know,
in particularly in reference to
You do realize that all these
sub stack are being fed in, fed
you know, and we are effectively
interesting things so far I've
that, if you put in thus far, it
you like, about some people that
as just out and out. You know,
theorists. Grok doesn't analyze
know, people like myself and
know, it's quite, it comes back
on us at the moment, but, but I
problem is, obviously that it's
perpetuating, random, just
the algorithms are programmed by
ultimately, while it's currently
up as much data as it possibly
not that it could ever complete
that those models have been
people are Using those models
themselves. Then, obviously, by
can social engineer on a scale
previously, I would have, you
wouldn't have been able to even
a lot of what you just
you know, this, this book that
actually written a piece about
Schmidt and Henry Kissinger, who
elites that were deposed by the
you know, very tied up with the
course, Henry Kissinger, having
Klaus Schwab and very, you know,
and the trilaterals and all of
different than than Musk and
their book, they basically chart
this rule of all aspects of our
happen. And they basically say
dominated by AI already. And I,
I think, like four years ago
saying that AI is, is shaping
music to listen to, what things
that soon, it will shape our
will become completely dependent
much, period. And they refer to
diminishment, that basically
more of our of our agency and
then eventually we won't be able
or we will forget how to do it.
explain this to people is, you
mental math ability if you
or something like that. The
you lose it, kind of thing. And
know, we're, I think we're still
novel, and people are
AI and all of that. But
slope. And this is outlined by
that it's a slippery slope, and
of, oh, it's so convenient, I'm
all the time to analyze news
might forget how to do that
And that's basically how these
Schmidt chart out how we get to
governance by algorithm and in
And another thing they bring up
that's related to what you
that government by algorithm and
lead to a fairer society. It
society. And you made that point
continental directors being on
human animals, as it were, and
book that it'll lead to this, a
call it Neo feudalism, or have
have the people who are
AI and determining the
functions above everyone else,
who are being enacted upon by AI
doing to them and how it's
meaning that the people that are
those effects are and where
Yeah, no, I agree with that,
something you said earlier, with
these LLM kind of things seem to
that's very much what, what
moment. So, you know, that's
gathering the data together to
efficiency of the model. You
that is enticing people to
possible, which, of course, is
so, yeah, and I think the idea
that we run, and certainly, what
envisaged, is that society that
mean, in technocracy, they do.
that they've got in there of
rights. This is so I'm going
1930s original iteration of
in its study course, which was
1934 and they come up with this
believe it or not, you know, and
perceived to be their naivety.
thought would be a classless
that, you know, in order for for
envisaged to emerge, it would be
keeping with their pet rights.
idea after observing cow herds
they noticed that, you know,
dominant than others, and it
their physical strength or
seem to be more dominant. So
that was the same in across the
society, and that we we should.
same kind of thing. And so who
Peck rights? Well, that would be
of resources. So the people that
oligarchs, basically, and people
know, the resources that we need
people that would have the peck
envisaging what they were
was, it was not classes at all.
about was one mass class of
they refer to is the human
one, one mass of us, and
lives and controlling our
our efficiency as A function,
Who? Who would, you know, make
to their design? Now, you know,
and Kissinger writing Warning,
potential for this kind of
you then have to think, Well,
while warning us about these
creating precisely that system.
thought for a moment, certainly,
Thiel and Musk are, are racing
the kind of, you know, social
other hand, people like Schmidt
against, you know, and obviously
involved In in rolling out that
while it's, while it's nice,
warned about it, well, surely
think about it first then. But
actually getting, is it, you
acceleration towards, towards
without, without anybody really
about it.
Yeah, well, I think, you
book, they frame it as a
But if anyone's familiar with
figure, or Eric Schmidt, either,
as a warning, especially when
basically like, all of this will
society we'll have, and there
AI, or the other outcome is, is
are deposed by a popular
think Schmidt and Kissinger
clear. And considering that
Kissinger's air. And Kissinger
builder, at the Bilderberg
consistently a major topic. On
Bilderberg is Peter Thiel, as
Palantir, who still leads the
is basically becoming a global
national security state of the
services of both the UK and the
America and Wall Street now, all
quite interesting there. I don't
warning, but I think you know,
kind of a way to maybe
little bit, being like, well, we
what was going to happen.
Oh, they have to tell us
don't they? Apparently? Yeah,
apparently. But they don't,
had any intention of stopping
their history, and also, you
Schmidt, their current actions
and and finance and seek to
problematic stuff. Well, we've
for a while, and before we move
Curtis Yarvin and the Cathedral
Enlightenment and all of that, I
of the technate, which would be
system, and what that would sort
technates would look like,
course, in your piece, and
the technate model for the
encompasses Greenland, which has
and JD Vance after the.
promise at all, make Greenland
that. Definitely something that
around inauguration time and
expound a little bit on what a
for technates are are, I think
illuminating as well.
Yeah, so a Tech Night is a
engineering and behavioral
saying earlier, with a
the top of it. So it's and
be a very small number of people
surveil and distribute all
it would have its monetary
controlled, or power
everything would be centrally
continental control, this, this,
everything. You know, in the
proposed, you know, as I said,
would be no names of towns or
Everything would be designated
grid reference. So you would
five. You know, this kind of
but, but, but interestingly, in
study course, they put a map on
cover, I think they put a they
called the North American Tech
Greenland and went all the way
all the way down to Northern
northern tip of South America.
made, seemingly, you know, prior
his inauguration, started making
know, building this North
would encompass, you know, most
Central America, I think, and
had never really been mentioned
like, you know, the North
that. Well, I feel
like Trump made it pretty
interested in basically de facto
Greenland with the United
beyond Mexico, he really spoke
worth pointing out that there is
country. El Salvador is
prison for the Trump
deportations, you know, or you
eventually American citizen
or people that are vandalizing
be sent to these El Salvadorian
the El Salvador government. So
dollarized nation also, so it
possible that it would expand
Mexico, to be sure.
Well, I'll defer to you on
did, but I but I may be right.
probably,
I guess, with Panama, he
about Panama. So I guess if you
Salvador through dollarization
And then you take the Panama
and El Salvador. And the Panama
just be like, well, well, you
Yeah,
yeah. And I think the
when the original technocrat
really explain how that would
would all these countries just
with your crazy, hair brained
that was never made clear. And I
was drawn, that was that was
North American technate, in
appearance, that in terms of
me, that was a signal, you know,
really, it's almost like an
that the technocrats we are in
I mean, it's, it's, you know,
North American Tech Night. Now,
know. And as you quite rightly
people like ourselves or and
some of the plans for Greenland,
just signaling their intent. But
notable that that that map was
was. And I think also, you know,
technique might be, I mean, one
technocracy, as I alluded to
originally proposed, it couldn't
technology did not exist. To
the technology does exist today
behavioral control system a
ironically, the nature of the
enables that to happen, and the
enables that to happen kind of
a kind of geographical technate
you know, by its nature, this
transnational. So, you know, you
many different regions in the
communicate, you know, and have
doesn't, that doesn't
physical, you know. So, so the
technique could operate now
based on kind of control of we
certain markets, control of
control of certain political
can be done without,
troops over borders is what I'm
I think that's absolutely
look at the case of just North
know, in terms of just like
technology, like fiber optic
sense, but also, you know, like
of like the PayPal acquit. Well,
I would argue, Mercado Libre is
significant control over, over
already happening, and already
compared to, like the Amazon of
much is, but they're making a
the digital financial
with stable coins and crypto and
they're now tied up with the
linked to Howard lutnic and
that, and kind of, you know,
ultimately tie back into PayPal.
PayPal used to own a majority of
stuff, and came out of Stanford,
things. And is tied now to the
that, which is sort of yoking
to Trump, and also Elon Musk in
So you know it, I mean, that's
example you sort of bring up in
of these same entities have
Ukraine. And as soon as peace is
will be run by essentially those
of them tied up with either Musk
know, Black Rock, JP Morgan, and
of that nature. So it becomes
these, these, you know, what,
corporations, even if, in the
Anduril, they have very America
tether together a lot of
could say, well, yeah,
and, I mean, that's another,
of bait and switch idea that we
obviously, that they've been
Project 2025, they've been
being anti elitist in many
know, the certain control of
when we think about the Bezos
building a network state, and
srinivalaji...
We'll just call him Balaji. it's
obviously referencing his work.
these freedom cities being kind
considers the US to be outdated
that that you know that this
think he's questionable. I think
control, pro maximizing their
accelerate towards, you know,
their own minds.
Yeah, Balaji is an
he's been saying a lot of stuff
Twitter into, you know, a
course, Elon Musk's ambition is
American version of WeChat. And
system. And the idea would be,
shopping and all sorts of things
supports that model, but says it
step further, and that people
instead of like, necessarily,
that, they should monetize their
or on on models like that. Um,
content for them. And he had
where he said, In 2023 uh, AI is
crypto is about building a new
the context of the whole network
develop. And I think ultimately
will come even though it's, as
centralization of power, it's
attractive to sell it
base, and under these
that they're using as a greater
have to market it as
so if you have a network of
knit themselves into the largest
into a technate Then, I mean,
that way, but have sort of what
decentralized patchwork of of
that's the case, because, as you
example, in our joint work on
work on, you know, the fight the
whether it's stable coins or
to have sort of a vendor
have a patchwork of companies or
providing the programmable,
a stable coin or whatever, but
from that would be harvested in
ultimately centrally controlled
necessarily visible to the
Yeah, no, absolutely. And
the Dark Enlightenment and what
patchwork of realms, so the idea
to decent from these guys
because it is predominantly men,
decentralization is a process
decentralize everything from,
economic systems to financial
but as long as it, as long as
is interoperable. I It's in a
be centrally collated. Then by
this network out, you know
you know, financially, or
you can spread this network out,
you know to a certain extent,
in their relative realms or
if you can then gather that data
machine readable format, which
can then do at something like a
if we're talking about the, you
forward this idea for a global
think it's called, you know,
about ideas here, rather than
already been established. But
are going, you know, then, then
give you what. Harvard, McCall
control, of a patchwork of
manipulate each realm. And if
technocracy that would done,
through the allocation of
a kind of centralized power
much the kind of in terms of how
very good example of that would
the C40 Cities Network is, you
other side, you know, when we're
juxtaposition between the right
political kind of terms, the
kind of oligarch, kind of
that, you know, the Schwabian
you know, like setting up things
supposed to decentralize power.
the increasing power at a
who are often members of this
they're all linked centrally to,
particularly from their from
realms, so that that's what
this, this, this kind of
to, they want to roll out, which
decentralized, but will actually
sources as possible. Something I
to add to that, since you're
Unified ledger here, I mean,
some sort of blockchain ledger.
been signaling, of course, from
putting, for example, major
blockchain. And it's very likely
eventually happen at a much
potentially have, you know, all
you know, financial transactions
something that actually Larry
desire for, and says that, you
said this around the time that
ETFs, there would be basically a
blockchain for finance, and
number or CUSIP, not just the
they were transacting. And in
they're trying to tokenize all
including the natural world, you
his vision will have, you know,
obviously this has the, as you
data aspect to it, but there's
to it too, where people are sort
enabling it will enable extreme
my colleague Mark Goodwin has
points about that. You know, in
Catherine Austin Fitz, basically
you publish everything on a
someone looking at a blockchain
you can the data is there, and I
if you don't have access to all
anonymized identifiers or other
you know all of these. I you
going to make sense to the
have to have access to a litany
Palantir, for example, in order
money flows are connecting and
money's really going and what's
Yeah, yeah. And I guess if
rather than a permissionless
permissioned ledger, then you
you? So, I mean, I wouldn't, I
intent on moving money around. I
in the UK, for the UK is kind of
is that these payment into
they will agree to be, you know,
banks and store it on the
controlled through, you know,
and so forth. But that will be
the central bank, and they will
rules. Well, that's those are
know about, that they're given,
Barclays or whatever, are given
permission algorithms. So what's
other permission algorithms
sure, you know, I mean the idea,
mean, it's the same, you know, I
and that, in fact, the whole
everything and moving everything
platform is it's like the there
it seems to me to be more like
you know, the the mythical image
more like that than than a kind
everything, you know, I mean,
this kind of harvesting of data
my view. I mean, I you know? I
heading towards something that
of criminality. I mean, I think
that looks quite a lot worse.
But I think the sales pitch
to sell it as a better system.
was more left leaning
more sustainable world. And I
that, you know, now that they've
right leaning dialectics, you
same thing too, that it'll be a
transparent system. And I think
it's a permissionless ledger,
the low hanging fruit of easy
of been framed as publicly but I
likely that ultimately you're
permissioned and permissionless,
people think that transparency
doesn't necessarily mean that
financial practices will stop,
that our world and in our
are run by people who have a
dealings and money laundering
It'll be money laundering for
will be the
outcome, yeah, I mean, I
even crossed my mind that
we will, that we're heading
possibility of, for example,
smuggle to, you know, proxy
ever envisage that happening.
there, if there was a system
wouldn't be rolling it out.
Yeah, well, I think the
it will stop those things.
paradigm of programmable,
which this particular PayPal
to it's going to basically
liberty and security. You're
financial privacy entirely and a
the system. So in order to
trade off. Will be ending money
sorts of things, and the
your money anymore, like DOGE is
these financial ills will
the programmable, surveillable
that we are now. You know,
like the cbdc at all, even
really not that different at the
civil liberties perspective. So,
no, not at all. No, it's,
the same. I mean, the the Trump
fondness for stable coins is
better in terms of its potential
control. I mean, you know,
a cbdc. So it doesn't, it
that, in that regard,
yeah. I mean, I don't know.
think that it is different not
what you said, just as
but that also, Trump has
Wall Street bankers. And that's
It's true from his own history.
out by the Ross child banking
know, it's just been kind of a
know, pardoning long notorious
collar criminals like Michael
I mean, he seems to have an ear
know, people like his upper.
and good friend, Larry Fink, for
Fink is a on the way out, guys,
here anyway. Sorry, it's just
see what narratives have managed
in reality. In my opinion, yeah,
no. I mean, I think, I
know, something that we spoke
idea of, of, you know, the kind
that the you know that they're,
to free us up, and to free up
benevolent benefactors.
this, this notion, yeah. I
certain extent, the things that
were angry about, you know, this
would consider wokeism, this
shutdown, of freedom of speech
know, that is not inherent to
thrown at and and considered to
progressivism. It's you know,
tantamount to identity politics.
comes from that, which, of
you think about what, you know,
it's that is very much about
much about, you know, women's
gay rights. It's about, you
moving society forward in a
come with it, like the shutdown
censorship of people online,
comments online, that's got
Moors that, that is that has
ideas being exploited by, I
and their network now, now, and
with that. I mean, ultimately,
and it's intimate. It's
legislation. But the thing that
know, certainly the Republican
things like Project 2025, and so
bridling against something that
set of oligarchs. And the
something which is being
oligarchs. In this case, you
talk about this, this kind of
underpinning of all this. In
towards a privatized form of
government, government itself,
intents and purposes, a private,
isn't going to facilitate, I
if that enables kind of more
like poverty, inequality of
things that people care about,
that kind of thing that there's
Towards a privatized form of
anything about any of those
they're finding solutions for
kind of a mutated form of
they're not. They're just, you
perceiving the threat in those
well, I've always seen
this effort to mainly keep
the left that are unhappy with
establishment left. So instead
policies, for example, in the US
this candidate is from this
religion, and has done, you
that same you know, identity,
ultimately, like, how many can
diverse, and thus the
better, but it prevents a
which, in the case of the
not that different from policies
Yeah, no, absolutely, yeah. And
group and and the politicians
Or affiliated with them, have
diversity in our in our you
dismantling that now. But
effort to put push this
was ultimately an effort to
policies, and now, because
know, the quote, unquote
erected all of this
while implementing the, you
the real policies, you have the
focusing so much on dismantling
still no discussion of the
yeah,
you've said it better than
that's what I was trying to get
you've got an artificial
doesn't really exist, and then
artificial construction of a
exist because the underlying
that they've always been and
the economic situation that
you get health inequality, you
opportunity. You get
all poverty, all the all the
people, none of that ever that
there's, then, there's nothing
from, you know, Thiel and Musk
that is likely to address any of
saying that you know the other
know, certainly not in the UK,
we've got at the moment, who are
forte. You know, they're doing,
of addressing those issues.
And it's even it seems
mean, I think that's the problem
political kind of to and froze,
about, you know, basically
important things that we need to
government, and they're
addressed by a new
surging ahead with these pretty
would add too, that that
these new media paradigms we
continually made on these
issues that actually have more
lives, and the ones that are,
You know, anyway, I, in the
talked about him a few times,
them. I'd like to bring the
and Nick Land, who, in the
described as the house
and in the case of the PayPal
is more more known for
being close to them, though,
lot of influence on them as
Nick Land, of course, for his
Enlightenment. And Curtis Yarvin
retire all government employees
cathedral. But of course, you
thus far some of these other
less associated, perhaps, with
GOV Corp and the sovereign Corp
make of Yarvin's and Land's
the PayPal Mafia, and are their
their Proponents claim? No,
I mean, it's they cloak
libertarian language. But
about what they're proposing. It
an unbelievably autocratic, top
they're proposing. So back in
place called the cybernetics
University, where Nick Land was
looking, they were looking at
Destruction. So some Schumpeter,
that that there's a cyclical,
inherent to capitalism, where
advances in economics and
mean that old markets are
ones emerge. So, you know, good
carriages destroyed by the
one market is. Destroyed a new
attached to those markets are
financial interests. So this,
tends to also have an impact on,
because, you know, and on, you'd
interests, because, because
the fore, and others and others
they they were looking at this
Schumpeterian's Creative
that we are rapidly approaching
Singularity, which is the which
becomes self perpetuating, or
AI, which, you know, they argued
because AI will ultimately
will venture off into The cosmos
this notion. So what they
called Accelerate or an idea
called accelerationism, which is
startup investment and
idea is just to use chapters
every opportunity from every
apart the institutions of
reformed into a better system of
as a species to cope with the
rushing singularity. So what
was that they thought that
into what Curtis Yarvin called a
these patchwork of realms should
corporations or sove cause
of a CEO King managing a realm
innovation and enable the kind
technology that we all have to
able to survive the inevitable
wrote as this, this character,
that, that was happening kind of
21st century, he he wrote from
about 2010 2011 initially Land
and he wrote something called
expanded on the ideas that
Moldbug and those ideas, he kind
them to even further extremes.
Enlightenment that we have to
to survive. He said that once we
technoplastic beings that could
us to, what he said, cross the
that and that once we've crossed
able to pay what he calls
call tax. So sovereign rent.
It sounds so much nicer when
doesn't it? You've sound
yeah. So you're so but in
do that, to this song, to pay
wouldn't be able to function in
just be like these useless kind
know, could don't know anything,
us to stay pace with it, with
singularity world, basically we
We have to become cybernetic
his notion, and that, with the
he further presented was this
like, you know, there is a big
and this Neo reactionary
having continental control, you
of sovereign cause, the kings of
would over be overseen by a
core, which would be a kind of,
government. I mean. That. And I
the difficulties we have in
understand these ideas is that
creating new structures that we
envisage. So one of the things
listening to this would like to,
is there being no government,
entity that oversees the
of your life, because, because,
suggesting, instead of a instead
corporate structure, because
So that's that is basically and
influential by Land when he
specifically cited Thiel. Thiel
Yarvin. Yarvin and Thiel watched
together. Yarvin calls Thiel
we're talking about the, you
there The Dark Enlightenment. So
got in mind. And when we
way that they envisage rolling
then we combine that with their
the ideas of this, that that
been presented in The Dark
edifying. Well, what, what, you
they're basically appear to be
horrendous totalitarian control
Yeah, you know, it's funny,
the risk of, I'm a little
nerdy, but I have been playing
seven. And basically, in that
that runs every aspect of
the planet to power its systems
Shinra corporation, but they're
the game, you know. And it's
this would be somehow a fair
sector tyranny, as opposed to a
kind of impressive, really. And
it's been so successful in sort
masquerading itself as sort of
from tyranny and departure from
of people are sort of
but really, it's really, you
more entrenched even, because he
Yarvin sort of frames, you know,
between a CEO and a dictator.
put a CEO in charge of
you know, the technical
continental director, you know,
you know, they would rule as,
yeah.
I mean, one other thing. I
Americans need to get over their
think, within a couple of weeks
speech at Stanford, I think
that dictatorship was, that was
was talking about startups, you
new industry and starting up new
said, you know that we that we
that need, there needs to be a
you know, a company for
innovation, Iain
innovation,
of innovation. Every
I mean, that's the thing that
oppression of the public or
innovation, right? Unless you're
tyranny, which then perhaps
Yeah, yeah, they've been
think, I think one of the things
I've written these two articles,
these seemingly off the wall,
that are being adopted by some
Earth. But it's not new, is it?
idea. It's the same old idea
should completely dominate
mean, I mean, it's as old. It's
not new,
you know, it's interesting
that, you know, the PayPal
and we've talked, we haven't
discussion about it, but the
touch on it that a lot of these
particular, are joined at the
state. And, you know, the
US when it goes in at coups
system of government does it
be, you know, libertarian
military dictatorships. So, you
at the CIA, as I do, is sort of
Street bankers and organized
know, intelligence agencies as
were, it would make sense that
would like to have now in the
dictatorships around the world.
think about this in particular.
lands work. Is that the sales
tyranny, or in technocracy, and
want to call it, is this, this
to do this because of the
because of AI and because of
And it kind of reminds me of the
right don't like from the left
change, for example, and how we
changes because this terrible
terrible thing will happen, and
the whole species will be wiped
everything about our lives. It's
similar, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, I
basically that, you know, the, I
not that, you know, the the left
things like, you know, combating
development and you know these
yeah, we do have to accept this
sustainable development goals
that's the point of them. To a
The left accepts that because,
catastrophe, the impending
less so they're far more
in in Europe and in the UK and
more skeptical. Don't kind of
the left claims. Realize what a
have on the economy and
they reject it, but they are
things, such as immigration,
know, the cost of living, that
matters. So up steps the other
time represented by Thiel and
others and and to provide the
and the Republicans to provide
exactly the same thing, which
earlier, is not a new idea. It's
moving into a technological era
kind of dictator's point of
just really stamp down on us and
they've already got the left on
right on board. Hence Trump it
bait and switch to take place.
that's, that's the way I view
no, I can't put a cigarette
sides of the coin, they're
path, you
know? And this kind of
what you just brought up, of how
how Teslas, which were
Very concerned about climate
US you know, are now being
toting libertarians and Trump
mass. And you have like, you
also Howard lutnic, basically
publicly while in public office,
framed as like the car of the
isn't it, because since the
this technocratic model, and you
interested in an EV only cars,
Musk has pointed out, is not a
AI company. But really, Teslas
and they can be remotely turned
and the government decides you
your car against your will to a
or into a wall.
Yes, the Michael Hastings
necessarily better, but now it's
think, you know, I used to think
stuff, you know, these shifts in
people on the right on board
unquote, globalist policies that
being engineered to love under
minute cities, Freedom cities,
examples that we've discussed
coins. You know, I used to
sell Neuralink? And now I'm
going to tell the conservatives
own the libs, and then a bunch
that's a little cynical, but
social engineering stuff has
in getting people that were
reset of the COVID era. You
job in sort of framing it, that
plot, and it was just Klaus
people. And now that we've put
it's even though people for
and whatever in our you know,
Bilderberg steering committee.
are fine, and it's not really
people tend to focus so much on
not the policies being
no, absolutely. And one of
very interesting, was it Mark
Horowitz. He wrote this thing
manifesto, in which he now
not officially linked to the
key, a key influencer in in
was, an advisor, an advisor to
appears to have been selecting
positions and everything. Now in
manifesto, he openly says, we
obviously the network that he's,
accelerationists used in the way
everything that he's written in
has come is pure. So the people
Enlightenment would call
And it is pure, Neo reactionary
he's written there. And, you
Philosopher's Stone. They're,
already, elevating it to, you
know that. So these people are
twisted, I would say, ideology,
obvious, and they are very
current US government. So, you
it's whatever Republican voters
we, if we look at things like,
orders, that that's, that's that
these, this oligarch network,
to construct this technocratic
government and and everything
really, all these, certainly his
much facilitates that. So or is,
that. So, yeah, sure, while
you know, making its efficiency
that, I think that remains to be
supposedly making its efficiency
the beginning of this, what
it is in it is deploying AI to
lives. That's what it's that's
people that are behind it,
that's what they that's the kind
construct. But as we, as we also
idea that the fundamental idea
1000s of years old. It is about
what it's about.
Well, yeah, I think it's
you know, the oligarch families
Middle Ages, when they were a
ruled by kings, wasn't that
that, but then prevent the serfs
of thing. But, I mean, I don't
right? They're techno optimists.
against optimism? Are you black
kind of funny, but that's the
is we'll
just call it optimism. When
terrified, but we'll call it
It's more like the would be,
era that instead of oil barons,
barons. They're very optimistic
this. Yeah
for themselves. Yeah. But to
just talking about, about you
that they're, they're cajoling
along with it, with the with the
Republic and the conservative
techno optimist manifesto,
load of things. I think he lists
the World Economic Forum, uh,
and a whole, whole load of
as the enemies, the enemies of
techno kings, which is how they
enemies. And then says because,
doesn't say it outright, but he
kind of infers it that they're
thought was like what we go back
this just kind of, that's
what happened during the
that were promoted very heavily
unquote, or thought leaders of
lot of them claimed that and
of the global promoter, self
partnership,
yeah, and ignored
what stakeholder capitalism
basically became kind of this
sense. But again, it was about
sort of in the same line of what
identity politics and not really
underlying policies, which
great reset in the West is
fourth industrial revolution,
biological and digital selves,
group is also arguing for,
oh, well, we've defeated the
communists. We are something
give you the Fourth Industrial
of the great reset. We're just
pitches for them, which is,
where we are in that sense,
the time to focus on the policy
not the celebrity, not the
politics, or these, you know,
or, you know, front men that
richest men in the world, or
Policies, because you'll find a
same, and someone like Elon Musk
ostensible right, but he's a
basic income, of carbon pricing.
great reset policies, but I
it's it's different now, or
you, you know, in your piece,
about the humane alternative to
have come out of any of these
with the WEF. Or Yuval Noah
era, this idea of basically
instead of killing them. They
worlds enjoying themselves, like
that. But I guess in this case,
will put you in the pod and feed
you'll get your UBI Liberty
they'll change the names of all
minute cities are, are freedom
know, just have to cloak it the
And, you know, and be like,
own the LIBS that way in your
of the policies they advocate
It's just the sales pitches and
people to consent to them are
like the COVID era, where so
people to consent to things and
things they otherwise want to
same thing is happening now.
And I think the interest, I
quote, I just took a section out
wrote, the lead up to the quote
because it does stand out in the
talking about converting us into
the most useful thing that a lot
is to be converted into bio
mean, when he's talking about
I think it's important to
he means. He means all of us
for the the singularity. You
equipped for it. So we're
you know, the best thing for us,
was that we should be turned
then he said he was just joking.
about that. So what he really
this, but it says our goal, in
to genocide. That is the ideal
result as mass murder, the
from society, but without any of
Yarvin's main problem with
that's his, that's his. Yes,
it other really,
he's really, Yuval Noah
like the more I think about it,
so, so bearing in mind that
very close to Yarvin, you know,
spent a lot of time to together.
number of times. They share the
know, when you think that how
current Trump administration and
across I mean, look at look at
what we've just heard Yavin say
Palantir in Ukraine and then
And stab ruler perhaps wrote an
the Palantir, you know, used
not just Palantir, you know,
there were, there were a lot of
it as a test bed to develop AI,
targeting and and things like
were invited to really kind of
for, you know, a real genocide,
the Israeli occupation forces to
So, so although, and then I
of the things that I've tried to
use of language that these
often, and, you know, do it in a
You know, that's the way, that's
ideas. Oh, it's all just a
the culmination of those ideas,
Gaza, it's not so funny after
No, not at all. And I think
overlooked entirely in talking
influence in the United States,
these things are intended to be
is the repurposing of a program
purpose. And it's meant to be a
Palantir ever since, you know,
information awareness and
has been at the forefront of
called now, you know, throughout
beyond as well. And the idea,
determines if you may be guilty
that you can be prosecuted,
might do something that you
obviously horrible and
this whole idea of, well, you
effectuate this, this idea that,
eaters and all of that, because
which used to use Palantir for
moved to this other program, the
recently, called PredPol, was
accurate, half a percent. Yeah,
than a coin toss. It's basically
send as many of the people there
you know are Yarvin, and you
undesirables? Well, you know,
right? Or perspective,
combination of these algorithms,
algorithms have your social
is now, you know, hate speech
was before too, but they're sort
people, to deport people, and
on what they've said about, you
war, more specifically, what
kick that up a notch and it can
a pre crime paradigm, staying
is an indicator that you may
the future, or something like
absolutely bonkers, and it's
people just don't really realize
know, in my case, you know, I've
and Thiel, and then later JD
of his ties to, you know, Thiel
you know, quite vocally, and I
doesn't seem to resonate with
meant to become, and now,
with the health system in the Us
the UK, with NHS, they have
And in the first Trump
create a program called Safe
your social media and determine
signs of neuropsychiatric
know, put on, placed under house
know, preventatively and Trump,
this thing, like we have to stop
happen in all of this. And it's
to say the least, um, but would
see where that could easily
viewpoints from yard and others,
undesirables in the pod. Well,
but we can put them under house
in the metaverse or whatever. I
dark, but unfortunately,
being constructed that also
weapons and the generation of AI
to slaughter whole families in
happened, and Palantir has now
government is allowing that to
international condemnation or
from continuing, shows that it
fact that Palantir was always
in. Or against, you know,
you know, its previous
should be very, very aware of,
is, and how and how much this
certainly not cheerleaded. And I
Yeah. And I think you know,
would sort of stress as well is
potential that they are
of the system that they are
all the way back to a guy called
was the kind of, the initial
driving force for the for the
said the system must be first
system. And one of the questions
it's not intended for the
discussing, and we're already
kinds of terrible reason,
it? Why are they constructing it
constructing it, if they don't
that they do intend to use it
for, for that, for that kind of
know, terrible, terrible kind of
using this, this, these systems
though, that I would point out
to accept it. We just don't have
compelled to go along with any
we but unfortunately, I mean
Certainly I would suggest that
US in this lead up to the recent
as you rightly said earlier, is
with it, based on based on a
what, of what is being proposed.
proposed is not what I would
thought was being proposed. It
Well, certainly not. And
now, uh, trying to keep people
it more time. Trump needs more
remember, we've heard this
his first term, the trust the
basically want you to sit and
giving your consent until what
been built. And exactly they're
system. They've been very
lot of that is because of how
media. And something I've said
very true, is that the PayPal
media voices in attempt to, even
they attempt to recruit them to
involve the Thiel Foundation,
personally because I was
had just written a book slamming
thanks. But if I got an offer
did not even respond to, I'm
as well in independent media.
there's Thiel funding people
and also, you know, via rumble,
shareholder in and a lot of
at these big promoted voices and
alternative media, they're not
they they're extremely boosted
it should be abundantly obvious
you know, those voices to keep
all of these things are
suppressed or controversial
is, sit and wait. Trump will fix
of these other figures will fix
us to extricate ourselves from
Trump or Thiel or Musk or anyone
is it must be first, right? It's
we don't want to live under the
extricate ourselves from it and
possible. Because if we're
become. And even more dependent
over the next, you know, four to
You know, it'll be much harder
the future. And you will, you
be programmed by these people,
effort ultimately is leading us
of time. Iain, any last
the topic of discussion at
one thing, there's no doubt
You know, the land spoke about
treated with that they've got
functions of society that's part
they would audit everyone's
our sovereignty was so pitiful,
be treated with derision so and
that that is how we are seen.
the inarticulate pros. Javin
in a virtualized world like bees
seen as genocide is bad. PR, you
unthinking demos. These people
to be very clear on that. Well,
so much for your time. Iain,
listeners know where to find
mentioned earlier, you're a
Hangout. But of course, you have
own books and and other
you know our listeners and
would be greatly appreciated.
you can find me at
name's spelt with two I's. It's
at Substack, which, again, is
fortunate that a number of my
offGuardian, which is a great
lot of writers there that are
offGuardian. I'm very fortunate
yourself, Whitney, at Unlimited
articles published with
book, my latest book is The
freely available to subscribers
purchase a physical copy if you
Well, thanks so much, Iain,
particularly on the elites now
obviously poised to have a major
just because of the unipolar
post world war two era. And also
topics, there were other things
I wish we had time to talk
synthetic hegemonic currency,
new digital finance paradigm
into, among other things. So I
people to check out not just
Hangout, but some of his past
more relevant than ever. And
listening and for especially to
podcast, and we'll catch you on
our series on the PayPal