Welcome to Unlimited
Webb. For well over a year the
on with little sign of slowing
by the conflict within Ukraine,
corporations are pouring
into the post war reconstruction
fighting continues unabated.
to some but the reality is that
perfect testbed for a host of
particularly invasive
part of the rollout of the so
Revolution or 4IR while the
great reset trumpeted that COVID
implementing these policies and
Ukraine, the chaos of the
desperate war torn country into
ID to Central Bank digital
outsourced much of its critical
businesses and tech giants.
may soon be unrecognizable.
becoming it is being made to fit
like those who populate the
Forum and those who sit within
BlackRock. To discuss this and
Pabst. Stavroula is a writer,
in Athens, Greece, who has
and the satire site Reductress,
recently become a contributor to
piece covering the very topics
is entitled Ukraine's Future
for joining me today Stavroula,
Hangout. Thanks for having me. I
for writing such a wonderful
you detail on your piece, this
Ukraine is going on before the
seems kind of odd, you know, a
people are making, because the
blown up or destroyed by by the
what exactly is going on here?
what are their goals? And more
people have any agency in these
actually one of the main things
There's this obsession, I feel
of Ukraine, even though again,
don't have any idea about how
But I personally think that this
about preparing, you know,
reconstruction goes on in the
reconstruction efforts be led by
powerful, and in my opinion,
already preparing to make major
example of this is, of course,
understanding with Ukraine's it
situation where Black Rock is
to recreate Ukraine, or we're
Ukraine. So they're actively
the most powerful people and
they're actively telling us that
They want to make Ukraine
speaking to a lot of policy
makes it much easier to
especially what's going on right
a lot of corporations are really
over the war effort in Ukraine.
everything except the dying, we
Microsoft, both. They're both
the Ukrainian Government's
various ways. They're there,
over critical infrastructure of
I think it's a situation where
understand that if they push
partnerships in Ukraine, if
wartime efforts now, this is
of the larger political
the development of the global
right? Where we have these
public private counter
situations where corporations
Ukraine or whatever is
accountable to the public. So
Ukraine is that we're seeing a
private partnership become
seeing act be activated,
it's something where they can
normalize it, they can show us
public private partnerships have
where if these efforts and if
structures become normalized in
for them to facilitate that for
essentially, yeah, it's a
whatever works in Ukraine now
So thinking about how the
course, we know by now that
particularly by the UK
to essentially egg on the
events that could have led to
So do you see that sort of as an
ties into this reconstruction
know, those governments in
a lot of involvement in this
Personally, yes, I do see it
lot of the world's larger powers
think that that's for a number
this, and in relation to
Ukraine, I think that they would
forever, because they know, they
of crisis through war, they have
pliable to their initiatives.
true in Ukraine. I mean, the
you know, the more destroyed it
situation where they know that
whatever they want in Ukraine,
little sovereignty. And
government has essentially,
essentially expelled most of the
understanding is that Zelenskyy
So they know that they have a
to continue these efforts at
All right, so you know,
right. So essentially, that was
COVID-19. And that particular
Charles and the World Economic
groups. You know, this campaign
catalyst for a series of changes
facets of society, right under
Fourth Industrial Revolution.
wane, and as the Ukraine Russian
new buzzword that came out and
it the polycrisis. And it's sort
the Ukraine Russian conflict,
Russia, but you know, its global
prices, for example, and much
what you know, I'm thinking
last question, you have this
Ukraine Russian conflict from
government policy from COVID-19
unnecessarily we know now, a lot
you know, this polycrisis
Ukraine Russian conflict, a lot
example, were policy decisions
sanction Russia, for example,
there's sort of this effort to
inevitable crises that are out
elite, but at the same time, a
least in a tangible sense, had
unintentional government
course, from the Western world,
of COVID-19 not exclusive to
the way it looks to me, given
of creating the polycrisis on a
that are affiliated with the
sort of seems like, as you note
chaotic eWCA, quote, the chaotic
microcosm of the larger
refer to the war as the great
of say that implicit in a lot of
essentially a threat from a lot
until you acquiesce to these
on, you know, the world
know, a majority of nations, you
takes place, the crises will not
worse. What are your thoughts on
I really do think that
microcosm, as I wrote in the
And I really do agree with the
intentionality behind this.
a situation where they've
told us earlier in the fall this
war in Ukraine, it's quite
well face power outages there,
food prices go out of out of
able to necessarily be able to
actively were telling us that
situation. And it's quite true
grocery store, I see things, I
almost every single time, I
this is about putting a lot of
population, they're kind of
if you don't want there to be a
a war, the Western powers
to war, they want to continue
course, that means a lot of
worsen. I think they're making
to get used to that type of
resist it, I would actually very
can connect that back to COVID.
of the World Economic Forum's
in this world where there's
crisis. And it's horrible. You
forced a lot of us to live with
very excessive restrictions. And
you know, many of us technically
very mentally stressful time.
to that the lockdowns destroyed
what's happening now is, let's
springboard for what was
is making things even more
living standards will get worse,
they're trying to tell you that
whether the war is happening, or
you should not be able to fight
you shouldn't be able to resist
yes, in short, I think that
they want us to feel that we
crisis, even though this crisis
created. So yes, in short, I
intentionality here. Yes.
So another thing I wanted to
of touched on, but I might want
explicit is that, for example,
the time and half men over the
been told that, you know, it's
Ukrainian side, you know, and
other governments have told the
millions upon millions of
little traceability and
necessary to ensure democracy in
There's literally Hitler and all
know, essentially what you show
this idea that what is really
Ukraine is about protecting
least when you consider, at
democracy is like people have an
deciding their leaders and their
And an example you sort of
is the role of big tech like
Valley companies, right, having
military operations, the
also major functions of civilian
government. And, of course,
Ukrainian. They're not based on
in Europe. They're based on the
And, of course, they have a very
intelligence services of the
Google having a very well
CIA and Microsoft's
And well, and, you know, Israeli
there with Israel, all sorts of,
really involved. And, you know,
the Ukrainian government under,
directives, have essentially
of not just their military, but
foreign multinational companies.
don't have a lot of say over
know, now, or have known for
Valley companies are
the mass harvesting of data. And
people have a lot of say over
and particularly in the
military. Is there any
is being used? From what I've
like Google and Microsoft have,
that to an extent. So, you know,
partnership, like you mentioned
on here? You know, what are the
democracy in Ukraine?
Sure, um, you know, that
it's quite complicated, and a
short, I, you know, as we've
Ukrainians have any real
actually a situation what's
I will say none of this is
both he and the Minister for
Ukraine actually has a ministry
Minister for that, who's Mikhail
around, they actively show up at
such as at Davos, such as at the
able to try to get investments
assistance for Ukraine so that
try to fight this war. And, of
are able to win this war. I
that would be possible. But it
that that's essentially what
single chance that they're able
mean, a large number of
help Ukraine, but by helping
they're essentially they're
solid sovereignty, right,
sovereignty exists, still, these
with it with every agreement
honest, it's to the point that
looking up what's going on, you
major corporation and its
will probably find some weird
um, yeah, essentially
they are taking on what should
Ukraine, they are taking that
that there's any real
corporations are using the
mean, based on what I was able
almost nothing. And I'm not
little about the transparency of
realize that they don't have to
well, this is a wartime
seems that anything goes they
are in a state where they can't
questions and actually expect
So in short, no, I find that
transparency. And I think that
anybody to actually say what
should probably talk a little
discuss a little bit in my
state in a smartphone app that
going on in Ukraine. And this
smartphone app, which I find to
But okay, it this app
services, including digital ID,
through Diia. You can pay taxes
like cash payments to people
COVID. Diia had also facilitated
like cash payments to people who
short, we're seeing a lot of
encapsulate itself perfectly in
that very much dia encapsulates
because, you know, you're
government app through, you're
know, Diia is a very easy way to
may have problems with. But
quickly, because you're doing it
if Diia now holds a digital ID,
difficult to resist that because
government can say this service
is now also on Diia, we can use
there have been a number of
Diia, I think also, there's
terms of people's like, secure,
private information is on the
last year, Diia was actually dia
government services had been
information had actually been
correctly. So it's a situation
being asked to use Diia. To do a
population is especially asked
COVID was a time where you
services in person. So the
slowly coerced into using this,
app, where they really have
could be used by the government
would use a state in a
who knows about Diia ability to
know, this has this came up in
USAID has supported Diia
they're actually hoping or it's
had announced at the World
that she would like to see Diia
way around the world, especially
I think that's disgusting, but
been announced that they will be
like Diia to other countries,
So in my opinion, Diia kind of
lot of initiatives are being
being done in this semi coercive
harder if you don't go long. Or
example, you know, it's harder
life, if you don't have that
don't have that digital ID. So I
encapsulates the overall
So in my experience in
probably similar in Ukraine,
you have a lot of these
you stopped being able to
did before. And this is often
people. So for example, applying
that, and Chile, used to be in a
you know, allegedly because of
online now, and a lot more
claim they, despite you
servers, they claim to lose your
But essentially, what's
as they move everything to the
remove the equivalent to the
the digital realm. And it's no
group like USAID which has been
know, across the spectrum really
you would have them backing this
Because essentially, it's
data. And it also makes it much
mentioned earlier, what people
people's sensitive data where
Because of course, if it's all
of different government offices,
and you know, tied up with
one stop shop digital program,
obviously benefits them a lot
place. And something that I've
and some past interviews, and
that the same you have sort of
going on. So you know, what,
just talked about, is this
the digital world, right? And so
smartphone, you know, you have
to access these necessary
interact with the economy or do
a car, for example, but this
exert increased control over the
centralize the internet and make
the guise of doing things like
cybercrime, censorship, to stop
hate speech and all of this
intentionally an intermingling
you're pushing people into the
forcing them there through
noted. But you're also
digital world in an
that sort of makes it take on
element, in the sense. And
Diia is really, really
the fact that there's really no
know, people in Ukraine, it's a
people are not necessarily in a
their voices heard in this in
with, you know, the opposition
control of Zelenskyy, who is
the Western oligarchs
It's a very sad situation. But
terms of what we've just been
discussion of Ukraine and
So can you touch on that those
things like the digital ID and
nature?
Sure. So I will touch on
really think that I think it's a
what will happen but I think
ensuring it becomes one of the
countries. And I actually start
Fedorov tweeting about this
about Ukraine 2030, where
they want Ukraine to become a
everybody to be using ehealth
services. And now it's become
it's become essentially this
has a very convenient life. So
cashless there, by the way, so I
for sure, I wouldn't be
trying to remove or making these
traditional services, and the
currency, I'm sorry, available
they're telling you where they
talk a lot about where they'd
understanding is that Ukraine is
itself as this very digital,
that means country that will do
the world that it's moved ahead
they're acting like Ukraine will
the points in relation to the
interesting stuff going on here.
works. It's called the
goes well with it, this will be
granted when they say that I
affect this, but for now that
They're positing they will do.
couple interesting things. I did
wouldn't be facilitated by a
also would run on the stellar
blockchain network, I should
if I, I think stellar is
investigation, because if you
little suspect, to say the very
technically a public network.
stellar Development Foundation,
look at stellar, I feel that it
the elite, and it's very much in
Development Foundation, I'm
with the goals of the elite. If
they use publicly, stellar is
payment standard. And stellar
been selected to become a
coin. It's also collaborating
develop a future Brazilian cbdc.
public materials, they actively
actively fashioning itself to
could be used on. So I think
you know, I think a lot of
dangers of CBDC's, I also would
particular creeps me out and it
terms of this, the e griffonia.
larger push toward CBDC's that's
think that the current
bit about the general concerns
case, you know, because we
let's say that the e-hryvnia is
Diia, which does already have a
about Diia is that a lot of
identity through Diia to do
people will verify their
their banking services, to
even being used for like a chat
you're Ukrainian, then you can
to essentially report on enemy
seeing this CBDC launch within
first of all, very hell bent on
possible as quickly as possible,
a digital ID. So it seems quite
e-hryvnia launched, it would
plausibly I should say be
because that infrastructure
wouldn't be surprised to see any
drive that's ongoing in Ukraine,
trying to move as quickly as
safe for about any of the
pose the population. I think
of the possible dangers
particular, we're concerned
its programmability. And second
identity. And, you know,
the e-hryvnia being tied to a
you. So one day, we work to
be quite easy to say, okay, you
does or doesn't follow rules.
their level of access to goods
think that a lot of general
very concerned for them in this
situation of wartime. It's a
country has very little saying
said, it seems that the
much interested and pushing
They don't want discussion they
most advanced country on Earth.
where priorities are clearly not
Priorities are about moving
possible, which very much means
very much that it will be linked
software or the other
government is moving forward.
Well, I think you're
Because from what I've seen,
increasingly digital, you know,
to sort of the CBDC or pre CBDC
they're trying to sell it isn't
also stuff like safety from
where they're pitching that is
identity. And a lot of that, you
interview, that one contributor
told me that, I shouldn't say
because they were requiring him
even be able to access his own
even before cbdc has been rolled
private commercial bank, making
that, you know, when the cbdc is
it, you'll have to prove it's
to do that than the digital ID,
groups out there that have
having them completely tied
has been pretty explicit about
that they called The People's
paper, yes. But it's talking
foster in, you know, the cbdc.
fostering financial inclusivity
in order to move finances to an
the digital realm, it's
to digital ID. I mean, they make
also tie that, interestingly
Sustainable Development Goals,
part of agenda 2030. So it's
with Ukraine 2030, you know,
it's interesting, too, because
Sustainable Development Goals,
don't necessarily see that as
digital, right. But to the UN,
sustainable development goals
actually quite explicit about a
quote unquote, sustainable but
one of the ways they tend to do
making everything digital is
oddly something that is also
piloted in Ukraine, because as
this big push by Zelenskyy, and
turn Ukraine into the quote,
economy, and the fastest growing
And one of the ways this is
accomplished is through this
called the Ukraine Green Growth
by Australian mining magnets
with two R's. So what can you
not to just be, you know, in
than anybody else, but also
if this is actually correlated
any capacity, or just a talking
um, in short, I would have
talking point. It's actually
up you know, this push for
same time, because when I was
had actually seen some people
transition, where there's two
transformation being paired with
they're kind of actively trying
actively trying those trying to
together with their language. So
found very interesting when I
piece. In terms of the Ukraine
there's that initiative, which
there's just so many other you
plans, that I find to be very
least. And of course, a lot of
the reconstruction being planned
said earlier, they're talking
the war is even over. And
Reconstruction in ways that are
recommend people do a Google
case, it's kind of interesting
Google is going to give you in
There's just so if you look up
Ukraine, green future Ukraine,
articles saying why Ukraine's
There's been this idea that a
packaged together for Ukraine.
cases, it's very disingenuous.
transformation of society being
reconstruction is a perfect
ways that are green. And within
predatory behavior from the
decarbonisation, or other green
as bludgeons to get, you know,
like, I think the same thing is
Ukraine Green Growth Initiative.
said, and it's an investment
had put like 500 million US
that they are hoping that they
green investments. Obviously,
of the world's most predatory
Fink, Michael Bloomberg, and Joe
Boris, Boris Johnson, all of
the process of establishing this
you anything in the first place.
and we're talking the world's
what we need to understand right
have a history, not as
are looking for returns on their
if they're putting this level of
essentially saying we're
Ukraine, and Ukraine, this
it. And I think they're
these green targets and these
these transformations go this
of the Green Growth Initiative,
they're talking about
infrastructure. So they're
infrastructure basics, like
they actually talk in the one of
about building a digital green
become a model for the world as
And there, again, we're seeing
together. At the same time, I
very much that we're going to do
digital transformation at the
an expert in terms of what
you look into it a little bit
that they're positing, they're
to build, you know, it leverages
intelligence, and the internet
actually use the word Internet
digital green grid is, I guess,
production, energy construction
reduce waste, or maxify maximize
pushing forward these very
think a lot of the population
The idea that you're going to
infrastructure, okay, I guess
destroyed by the war. But
to put forth these technologies.
transformations in ways again,
over and again, I think in all
really just being used as a
population both in Ukraine and
going on. You know, you want to
right? So you're going to agree
desire to transform society, but
society into the one they want,
general population. So in short,
initiatives, they are
I mean, it's very upsetting to
essentially being told we need
meet these targets. We're not
opinion is, and the Ukrainians
asked. So yes, they are using
able to accelerate their goals
So you know, it's seems to
not just in Ukraine, but
billionaires you've mentioned,
example, he was a UN special
former Goldman Sachs and central
climate finance stuff. For the
digital green grid being built
funds with billionaire money,
the owners of that grid, and are
investment from it. And this is
But if you look at people like
also in the space through a
ventures, and things like that.
several years that his whole
philanthropy is about maximizing
essentially, what's been done
largely because of PR, is that
of what philanthropy means, in
most people continue associating
has led us to this current point
these billionaires, what they're
like a digital green grid, and
framed, again as altruistic,
But there's not really that much
that green, and other people,
people like Cory Morningstar,
in your piece, have made it very
particular power generation
invest in, requires a lot of
going to totally decimate the
Andes, in South America and much
familiar with how that mining
treated and the environmental
definitely green, really, at
sort of green benefit definitely
the enormous environmental and
the mines actually exist. So,
this as more PR speak to sort
that what they want to do was
digital economy. But by adding
sort of tie in the Sustainable
like I mentioned earlier, the UN
framing, completion and
moving into this completely
one of the reasons they're so
energy and stuff like that is
of these elites want to follow
which is all about, essentially,
paradigm where it's not really
and how much energy you spend.
Digital Green, you know, a
completely different type, it
trying to remake it is those so
is using what amount of energy
And of course, a lot of it
managed by artificial
nature. Whereas technocracy in
the 30s. And developing in the
technology wasn't at the same
what they theorized about is a
implemented being implemented
ultimately, you know, there's a
also, when you're talking about
economies and development,
to include things like natural
markets, and all of the stuff
markets that are based around
necessarily protect the natural
poised to make a lot of powerful
SDGs roll out. So, you know, I
stuff, particularly some of the
relates to quote unquote, green
falling under the same under the
will likely also tie in with
going on in Ukraine that you
the buying up of farmland and
course, inevitably be tied into
know, in your piece, a lot of
farmland are kind of onboard for
unquote, green transformation.
Yeah, yeah. And I think I
of this is that I'm
any of it. And I think it's all
happening in a perfect way in
they have us in a state of
have had Ukrainians in a state
this in the piece, but I'll have
been doing some looking into
to be green and actually a
Ukraine had hosted some kind of
discussing carbon markets, for
active talk about a lot of the
described, even though they
final piece. It's everywhere.
they are very interested in
Ukraine and green economic or
future. You know, and it all
don't know how to word it. I
to use this flowery language to
out. But the idea that any of
just a big lie. And I think it's
of like, the buying out of of
I would not say I was shocked by
for the course. What's going on
surprising, again, is that, you
major financial groups like
holding. There's, there's a
agri businesses that have also
farmlands. What's interesting
these groups I just discussed
European Bank for
and development, and the
Investment Bank, the
Corporation, which is an arm of
a situation where like,
Ukrainian farmlands, but in
agribusinesses are actually
financial institutions. And I
here, or an important note is
Oakland Institute had published
actually note that a large lot
up Ukraine's farmlands are
Institute, world financial
indebted to like the World Bank
Development. The IFC, or the
Corporation, which is an arm of
essentially seeing a situation
Ukrainian farmland, but the
businesses buying up the
world's major financial groups.
Oakland Institute posits that,
institutions have a major say,
happens to the farmlands. So
we're seeing the world's largest
world's power elite, just
can think of, to get a stake in
Ukraine's reconstruction is the
would like, I don't think it
know that reconstruction that
reconstruction that is about
they would like to create.
Yeah, well, it seems like,
actors using the the crisis, you
rebuild it this way, I think
whatever crises, you know, in
similar fashion, to rebuild, to
just and inclusive. I mean, it
make any crisis, you know, fit
at the at the end of the day. So
here, a lot of the policies
Ukraine, including CBDCs, and
They're not just they're also
Ukraine is fighting as part of
are your thoughts about, you
locked in this? This prolonged
policies are sort of being
Sure. I mean, I think this
about a long time and it's
I will agree completely with
what I would have to say today
seem there are some gems, there
the world's most powerful
is a war going on. But it
overall reality where these
the great reset initiatives than
more in agreement, ultimately,
the fact that we have this major
the way I see this conflict. And
Economic Forum has technically
don't know, its events, I don't
World Economic Forum. But that
Russia, at the end of the day,
going on. I know, they're
know also, I think we can also
was more or less on board with a
It was on board more or less
and mandates that were on going.
situation where we can, in my
there are genuine hostilities
doesn't change the fact that
or they've been forced to agree
mean, the sovereignty of many
this point. I personally have
necessarily know what the mood
but also the genuine the general
initiatives are coming from the
sure, I'm not in a position to
meaningfully resist this. Maybe
They're just like individuals
countries. But for me, when I
understanding of the conflict or
being a proxy, where where there
geopolitical tensions does not
towards a technocracy or this
capitalism.
Well, what concerns me is
of its allies, and BRICS, and,
has some have called it are very
2030. And the Sustainable
we've talked about, you know,
policies that are under
about Ukraine specifically. And,
some of the actual, you know,
these groups is about whether it
this agenda 2030 paradigm,
dominated by the unipolar, so
West, the Anglo American
it will be more dominated by,
but a more like multipolar
necessary, you know, at the end
development goals and agenda
technocracy in a nutshell, when
who's building it, why so many
why they're pushing to digital
under the guise of it being
same thing as sustainable. And
it seems to me, at least
going, you know, you know, who's
the, how power will be divided
Right. As opposed to really
the technocracy itself, right.
obviously a really complicated
there's a lot of questions being
about the nature of the Ukraine,
on because, you know, it was a
people thought it was going to
Russia's military is, is so
know, quote, unquote, special
described, a lot of people
and people are puzzled why it's
have the statements from the
he's been essentially denied
by the Russian military. I mean,
going on. And I honestly don't
make sense of at all at this
just so many data points and so
that you have, you know, Ukraine
them so committed to agenda 2030
Russia and China and Brazil and,
being similarly being so
know, there seems to be again, a
move forward, just not so much
You know, that's just my
want to add anything to that?
Um, yeah, I guess the only
that maybe a couple of things
kind of changed or challenged my
couple years, essentially,
really don't see the BRICS bloc
in fundamental ways, or
same thing had happened during
these policies were so top down,
which country you're in,
went pretty universally towards
that BRICS can offer as an
challenge to the unit party,
describe it. To be honest, I am
as time goes on. Because I don't
main initiatives that are, are
know, they are also developing
you know, they're quite happy
that I personally have a lot of
what I consider dignified life
you know, this is what I'd like,
And I think a lot of people that
team, they either downplay the
these measures imply or they
thing. And so I am increasingly
personally, I should say, but
situation. I didn't even know
group actually, I didn't know
learn just now. So that's kind
other quick point I'd like to
know if it's surprising or not.
was doing research for this
through so much media, where
are being discussed. And
prospects for victory, if they
class, if you can call it that.
They seem very obstinate about
no matter what. And I don't know
or not. But it's really starting
saying that, because if I look
just seems that this is going to
necessarily see a clear victim
so it just really freaks me out
juxtaposition of, you know, a
take a very long time,
loss of life. And then this just
that Ukraine will definitively
definitely winning right now. It
no, if there's anything to be
I think that's probably a
ultimately, at the end of the
know exactly what's happening at
what's important, and what I
keeping an open mind as these
because like you, you know, I
views on on this particular
when I, you know, before COVID,
press, and all of that, and was
reporting about US Empire, and,
industrial complex and proxy
you know, over time, especially
puzzling, like, why are they
on the same team and all of this
opposed are they do a lot of
my opinion, tyrannical measures
really confusing time, but, you
as journalists is to keep an
facts and try and, you know,
and invite our, you know, our
know, critical questions and
know, the information as it
developments as we're moving
unprecedented times, because it
People, in particularly
sort of locked in to some of
geopolitical understanding, in a
understand why that might be.
know, maybe more familiar for a
sense of things. But that
what the facts on the ground are
So, you know, it's always
and be willing to sort of
and views about geopolitics and
know, because, man, I mean, a
past few years, I don't think
but it certainly has given us a
with. And if your ultimate goal
matter. You know, I mean, we
and reassess the end of the
becomes available to us, right?
Yeah, definitely. And I
COVID was personally a, it was a
I know I fell for it for a few
word it. Yeah, I fell for a
when I realized the damage that
and realizing that a lot of
ignoring the dangers of these
kind of forced me to ask
doing this at the same time? And
agree more than they disagree,
disagree, that's a big deal. And
very open to that I really tried
understand that I was I
think it's very critical. The
what will happen. I mean, it
kind of a go for the great
of a go for this big transition
it's such a, it's such a
that I think we can do is be
conclusions about what any one
be trying to be Yeah, just try
what I've been trying to do in
to be honest about that. I want
these countries agree more than
that actually mean for our
agree with you.
All right. Well, that's
it. So thanks so much for coming
can you let us know how we can
you?
Sure. So you can follow me
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just stavroulapabst.substack.com
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so much, everybody and catch you