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Hey and welcome back to Unlimited Hangout. I'm your

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host, Whitney Webb. During the 2024 US presidential campaign,

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and in the early days of the second Trump administration, a

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group of Silicon Valley oligarchs quietly rose off the

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back of the faux populism of the Trump era Republican Party

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clothed in anti woke rhetoric and sharp criticisms of the

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previous administration, these tech multi millionaires and

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billionaires skillfully portrayed themselves as anti

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establishment, quote, unquote, counter elites who promised to

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be against unpopular policies of the Biden administration. They

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also claimed to be opposed to the designs of the oligarchs who

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would become infamous in the COVID era among much of Trump's

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base, particularly those tied to the World Economic Forum, and

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it's now former chairman Klaus Schwab, as well as bad tech

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billionaires like Microsoft co founder Bill Gates, these

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supposed counter elites promoted themselves and their chosen

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politicians, Donald Trump and his vice president, venture

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capitalist JD Vance across prominent podcasts, several of

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which had previously booked establishment COVID-19

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narratives and developed audiences that at least a few

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years ago had regarded politicians and oligarchs of

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both political persuasions with suspicion, yet through their apt

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rebranding, fueled by certain podcast social media platforms

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and quote, unquote, alternative media influencers, this faction

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of oligarchs has artfully persuaded an audience of would

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be dissidents to come back to the fold, not the fold of the

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elites they hated in the COVID era, but instead the fold of

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these new counter elites. But who are these counter elites

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really? And what do they actually believe? Surprisingly

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few seem to know the answer, despite the viral and arguably

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manufactured popularity of such figures. Disturbingly, what

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these people seek is arguably an even more dystopian future than

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the one envisioned by the elites they are ostensibly replacing.

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Joining me to discuss this and more is Iain Davis, whose

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forthcoming book, the technocratic dark state explores

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these issues in great detail. Iain should be well known to

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Unlimited Hangouts audience as he is now a longtime contributor

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to Unlimited Hangout who has also been on this podcast more

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than a few times. Iain should also be known for his work

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published on off Guardian geopolitics and Empire and his

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own website, Iaindavis.com as well as his new Substack. Iain

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is also the author of two previous books, Pseudopandemic

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and The Manchester Attack. Welcome back, Iain. It's my

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pleasure to welcome you back on the podcast to discuss your

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incredibly detailed and insightful new book.

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Oh, thank you very much, Whitney, it's a pleasure to be

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here. I'm very pleased that Papercut Publishing, your new

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venture is publishing it. It's an honor.

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Yes, I was going to bring that up towards the end, but

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since you brought it up, I will make a point of mentioning that,

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yes, Unlimited Hangout is working to bring you more

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physical media than ever before, as the digital media space

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becomes increasingly controlled and dominated by the very

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beautiful we are talking about today. Iain so physical media

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has never been more important. So we'll, of course, as I

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believe I've teased previously, we'll be putting out a magazine

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next year under the Papercut banner, as well as Iain's book,

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which is available for pre-order right now, and hopefully a few

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other books next year as well. So thanks for bringing that up.

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So moving along, we'll get right into it then about the

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technocratic dark state and what it portends. So as I noted in my

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introduction, during the COVID era, there was obviously, you

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know, this populist, you could say, anti elite backlash that

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stewed during much of the COVID crisis, and somehow, you know,

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maybe a year after COVID ostensibly ended, quote, unquote

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or so, a lot of those would be dissidents were engineered into

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a movement where its heroes are largely tech billionaires,

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surveillance profiteers and transhumanists, even though

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COVID era dissenters were largely against elite control,

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mass surveillance, gene editing via coercion, transhumanism,

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global government, etc. Yeah, and now they've been led to view

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billionaires offering much of those same things, if not to in

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an even more extreme degree, as the revolutionaries of their

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choice. Let's dwell on that for a moment, shall we? Because it's

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a truly extraordinary turn of events.

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Yeah, it's quite remarkable, and that's one of the main

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reasons that I wrote the book, because they appear to be

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getting away with it at the moment. And, you know, I mean,

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if we look at, I mean, another person that we might mention is

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Mark Andreessen, who's a Partner in Andreessen Horowitz, who's

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very much part of this same clique. I mean, broadly

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speaking, we, you know, people might refer to them as the

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PayPal Mafia or something like that, but there are other there

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are, this is a much, yeah, there's a, there's a wider

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network of people that they subscribe to this notion of, we

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will probably get on to talk about the Neo reactionary

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movement, but they're certainly part of that. And Andrew soon

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is, is openly part of that, because he says that, you know,

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quite openly stated when he wrote this thing called the

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techno optimist manifesto, that that we are acceleration is,

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which is a which is a pretty blatant acknowledgement of what

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they believe in. But yeah, with regard to what you were just

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saying in in the techno optimist manifesto, he listed a whole

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load of ideas which he and people like Thiel and Musk and

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Larry Ellison and so forth, kind of subscribe to that there are,

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that they're opposed to ideas such as sustainable development,

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that they're opposed to groups like the World Economic Forum.

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And they very, they very much cast themselves, as you rightly

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said, as these counter elites who were, who were bridling

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against the overreach of globalism, and were fight

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standing against this by liberating, in terms of, in

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terms of an kind of an electoral platform, liberating American

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innovation to stand against, you know, the communism of China,

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and China's technological. So all these talking points which

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appeal to a, you know, the small c conservative American voters

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and the and the kind of Maga, Maga supporting American voters,

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they hit all those talking points. But when you look at

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what they've actually done, as you were again, you quite

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rightly said, when you look at what they've done, it couldn't

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be more on board with the broader globalist agenda. I

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mean, for example, if we talk about sustainable development,

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the notion of the notion of the 15 minute city. These this group

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of people through as soon as Trump was was in office, as soon

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as his executive orders started rolling out, he immediately

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started talking about freedom, what he's calling freedom

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cities. But this is just a re labeling of the kind of 15

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minute city, Smart City, deregulated free zone, a lot of

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people, I mean, and I, you know, as you know, I've written a

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couple of pieces about special economic zones. So this is the

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agenda that that, ordinarily we would say, well, that comes from

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sustainable development. That's a sustainable development goal,

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but they've managed to rebrand it as liberating American

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innovation. But I mean, one of the points that I made in the

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book, if you are on that kind of, how should we put it, that

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kind of more World Economic Forum, kind of aligned, kind of

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side of the of the of the of the kind of globalist agenda as we

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hitherto understood it, there must be absolutely applauding

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people like Borge Brende and Andre Hoffman and people like

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that and Klaus Schwab, although I know he's stepped very much

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stepped back from the weft now, but they, they must be looking

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at what people this, this group of Neo reactionaries, are doing

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and applauding because they are accelerating. And I mean that

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both in the in the in the genuine sense of the word that

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accelerate, accelerating, and we'll probably get to talk about

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accelerationism. They are accelerating that agenda that

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they're pushing it through, and they have the technological

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capability to set about the infrastructure that would enable

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things like SDG, 16.9 for example, the rollout of digital

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air. Identity, these people are saying they are opposed to it,

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and yet they could not be pushing it harder, but just,

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they're just using, they're just using a different narrative to

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justify it.

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Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you, and obviously my own

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research and investigations have led me essentially to that same

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conclusion. So there's a lot of different places we could start

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and specific examples where we could hammer down on this, but I

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think a good one is also the subject of a two part series

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that you recently did for Unlimited Hangout, which is the

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idea of the the network state and whether that type of vision

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that's widely promoted by this Neo reactionary tech crowd is

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actually any different than the 15 minute city, or even the

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ideas of global governance that are espoused by The UN

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Sustainable Development Agenda, as well as groups like the World

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Economic Forum, which people should know at this point are

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relatively well intimately intertwined with the UN

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Sustainable Development Agenda. But somehow it's, it's been

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sold, as you know, the answer to a lot of our problems. And so

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something before we get into the specifics of the network state

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and all of that, something that's worth noting is that I

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think one of the reasons these guys have been so successful in

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their media blitz over the past couple of years is that they

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have hit the notes of discontent with how the things are

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currently or how the things were with the previous

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administration. But of course, a lot of what they aim to

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accomplish through acceleration ism in some of the things that

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you brought up a moment ago is that they want to smash the

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current order in order to replace it with what they

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envision, what they envision. And obviously, in talking about

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these people and what most people know about them, a lot of

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the focus is on how what they think are is bad, as opposed to

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what they think is a good replacement, right? So it's an

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interesting tactic that has been very successful for them, but

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you know, I've definitely seen it be very successful among

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libertarian leaning types, the whole idea of the network state

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as some sort of challenge to the UN or WEF vision of how cities

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should be in the future. So could you explain a little bit

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of where that term comes from, and how it is surprisingly

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compatible with the UN in West vision for both smart cities and

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global governance.

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Yeah, so that. So the UN has got as part of its kind of

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vision for a more sustainable development goal based future,

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the UN has got a kind of push that it calls its New Urban

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Agenda. And its new New Urban Agenda is essentially the

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establishment of smart cities and the growth and proliferation

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of smart cities around the world. That's basically,

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basically what they're suggesting, they've got, they've

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got, they're already moving towards, and have set up global

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governance structures that are based around this idea of a

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network of smart cities. So we already have, for example, the

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global parliament of Mayors. Well, the, you know, this is,

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these are, these are two, you know, obviously they are elected

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officials of their cities, but they're not representatives of

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the national government. They're representatives of the city in

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which in which they were elected. And they're being given

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formal global governance roles. They're they're being invited to

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discuss the implementation of global governance initiatives.

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So they're, they're implementing, they're directly

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implementing global governance initiatives in their cities. You

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know those, those we, some people may have heard of the C

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40 Cities Network, for example. So these are mayors that are

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focused on the implementation of global governance initiatives,

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sustainable development. Now that they're doing that without

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the you know, they're doing that without necessarily any kind of

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national political debate, not that the national government

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isn't equally on board with the same agenda. But nonetheless,

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then they're not actually representing the nation state.

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They're representing their city. And this is something that the

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UN are very keen to push. Well equally the people that say they

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are. In fact, I think Andreessen did say that one of the things

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he was against was the United Nations. So, so equally, the

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notion that the Neo reactionary movements kind of model of this

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is what one of the quote, unquote thinkers behind, behind

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it, a guy called Curtis Yarvin called A Patchwork of Realms.

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And these realms would be led by a sovereign Corporation. And the

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sovereign corporation would would have this, you know, kind

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of oversight of what it was tantamount to a city state. This

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would be, this would be based upon, very much, based upon

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digital technology. It would be a centralized, controlled city,

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state realm, ruled by a private corporation, which would offer

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its residents who the Neo reactionaries don't even call

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citizens. They call them customers. It would offer, it

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would offer them a governance as a service. And as I said, as I

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alluded to earlier, we're already seeing that idea

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presented at a national, federal government level, in the US, in

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terms of freedom cities. But that's that's also it's not just

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in the US, it's everywhere. This is the same kind of thing is

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happening in the UK and in the EU and everywhere else, and

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certainly in Russia and China and so forth. It's the same kind

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of, same kind of notion. But what the but what they they're

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essentially offering, is the it's, it's in harmony with, you

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know, the agenda that the global governance agenda. That is, that

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the UN that the UN is pursuing, and I very much explore in the

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book, you know, how the they've ingratiated themselves into that

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network of, you know, global governance network. I mean, I

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openly talk about an oligarch network, and they've ingratiated

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themselves into that because, precisely because they are not

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opposing it. They are, they're, they're, as I was saying

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earlier, they are pushing this agenda forward, in fact, more

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aggressively than probably even even, you know, the people that

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are on that other side, the kind of weft side of vision, of the

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of global governance could have hoped for. I mean, they really

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are taking this forward in leaps and bounds. I mean, certainly if

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we look at, for example, the rollout of digital identity, you

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know this, the measures that have been taken in the US, and

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we're seeing it in as again, we're not we're talking about

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things that are happening globally. So this is happening

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in the UK and the EU and so forth, that the measures that

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they have taken in the US to forward this agenda is is far

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more rapid and far more concentrated than I would have

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said that any Incoming, incoming administration could have hoped

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to achieve, were it not for the fact that this is being sold to

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the people as as standing against the globalist overreach

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that they resent, which is an A remarkable, a remarkable sleight

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of hand, that, as I said, one at one of the reasons that I wrote

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the book is because they appear to be getting away with it. So,

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you know, it's very important that people understand what

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they're doing, because it is and a thing that runs throughout,

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throughout the book, is deception. So in the the network

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state, the notion of the network state, the author of the network

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state, which is a key, it's a really important part of of

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their model of how they're going to construct this patchwork of

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realms is, is that you they call it deterritorialization, you

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know, we libertarians might call that decentralization. So the

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decentralization of political authority through a network of

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soft sovereign states, which, which then, bizarrely, is then,

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once this network is created. So if we, you know, a good analogy

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might be a network of smart cities once this, once this

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network of smart cities is constructed, then that is re

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centralized, or re territorialized under the

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centralized authority of a founder or CEO, techno King, who

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will, you know, everybody's everybody's assets and rights

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and everything are on a unified ledger. So it's the it's the

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total, it's the total antithesis of the libertarian concept of

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decentralization. What? Which they are grandstanding on and

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selling it to unfortunately. I mean, I agree with you, a lot of

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a lot of libertarians have bought into this, and I think

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they really need to look at the detail, because they're being

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sold a pup.

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I mean, ostensibly, you would think that most

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libertarians today would want to maximize individual liberty. And

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ultimately, what these people propose is the individual

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liberty at the end of the day. And it's really remarkable that

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they've gotten away with it. But then you have, you know, if you

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look at how the media sphere, particularly among libertarian

285
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leaning people has been the past. Through several years, you

286
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have people like the libertarian comedian turned podcaster Dave

287
00:20:47,470 --> 00:20:51,580
Smith, for example, going on Joe Rogan and referring to these

288
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figures that we're talking about today as the quote, unquote, the

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cool billionaires, right? Or the fact that the media and a lot of

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these oligarchs themselves have claimed they're libertarian, and

291
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they've also, for years, have sort of pegged themselves as

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much as they possibly could to influence Bitcoiners back when,

293
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you know, the Bitcoin community was largely libertarian leaning.

294
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That's, of course, before the the rise of the suit pointer,

295
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and how, you know, how that's changed since institutional

296
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adoption and the Trump administration's embrace of

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crypto really took off. Obviously, you know, mask off

298
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there, but you know, you know, a decade or you know, even five

299
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years ago, the culture of that group was notably different. And

300
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you would have people like Balaji, the network state

301
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author, be very prominent figures at these conferences,

302
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sort of preaching as if they were libertarians. And the

303
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desire of people to, you know, decentralize money, for example,

304
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being like, yes, we're going to decentralize, and

305
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decentralization is the answer. But only to leave out, of

306
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course, that the plan is to decentralize and then recent

307
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realize with a single central authority, arguably worse than

308
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the current one, somehow that got left out of it. But they've

309
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been very successful. And I think one of the reasons they've

310
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been successful is, you know, of course, they like to use their

311
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buzzwords of things like innovation and free market,

312
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which, of course, I mean, anyone that's honest with themselves

313
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will know that even though the US has promoted the importance

314
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of the free market since, you know, most notably in the Reagan

315
00:22:35,050 --> 00:22:38,890
era and beyond, the quote, unquote, free market in the US

316
00:22:38,890 --> 00:22:42,700
is not actually a free market. It is crony capitalists that

317
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benefits a small group of elites. And so when these people

318
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are similarly talking about a free market, they are talking

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about a crony capitalist, essentially, Neo feudal market

320
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that's control. I mean, it's just, it's not free in the way

321
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people that love the libertarians, for example, love

322
00:23:01,570 --> 00:23:05,470
the free market. It's not that's not what they want, right?

323
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Otherwise, it would be a bit, you know, the idea of the

324
00:23:09,130 --> 00:23:12,820
network state, right? Would be a bit different, because, as

325
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you've noted before, you know, the answer of the network state

326
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is you don't like the government as a service or governance as a

327
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service that we're offering you in our smart city? Well, you're

328
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free to leave and choose another one, right? But you know, at the

329
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end of the day, it's like choosing between Facebook and

330
00:23:29,530 --> 00:23:35,530
Amazon and Google. You know, the choice at the end of the day is

331
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:39,430
largely cosmetic. They're all collaborators with the national

332
00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:42,970
security state. They're run by transhumanist, crazy oligarch

333
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billionaires and so how different is the choice really?

334
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Yeah, I mean, if it was, I have to say, if it wasn't for

335
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the fact that this is so so serious and so and so damaging

336
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for humanity, it would be funny. I mean, I mean people like feel

337
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:10,720
of proselytized about, you know, the power of the free market and

338
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simultaneously extolled the virtues of monopolies. So you

339
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can't

340
00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:20,710
he's also said the free market is for losers. Yeah,

341
00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:23,920
yeah, yeah. So the freaking want to get rich build a monopoly,

342
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,920
and that's precisely what these people do. It's crony capitalism

343
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benefiting a small group of the elites. And now these elites,

344
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particularly the Neo reactionaries and these figures

345
00:24:32,350 --> 00:24:36,670
we're talking about today, are also obsessed with genetic in

346
00:24:36,670 --> 00:24:40,000
technological superiority. They are transhumanists and the

347
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,880
architect of the dark enlightenment, who Marc

348
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,200
Andreessen, is a big fan of Nick land, as you note in your book,

349
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,270
actually lauds the genetic superiority of the elites. And

350
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if they're not currently genetic, genetically superior,

351
00:24:55,870 --> 00:24:59,380
they will be imminently because of their dominance of genetic

352
00:24:59,380 --> 00:25:04,600
engineering. Saying it's, yeah, insane. How is this the anti

353
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:11,530
elite revolution? I mean, it's just insane. Been able to sell

354
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it so successfully as something

355
00:25:13,570 --> 00:25:16,840
else, yeah, no, it's absolutely absurd. I mean, he

356
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,680
talks about he's got this concept of hyper racism and

357
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,150
what? What a trick. And I would say, I would say, this is a

358
00:25:25,150 --> 00:25:29,110
trick. Is that they sometimes come up with, on the surface,

359
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:33,010
quite interesting and quite certainly provocative, but

360
00:25:33,010 --> 00:25:36,550
nonetheless quite interesting arguments. And you kind of,

361
00:25:36,610 --> 00:25:38,920
initially, you kind of think, well, yeah, that's, that's,

362
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,460
there's something in that. So, so he's within lands case, he

363
00:25:42,460 --> 00:25:47,620
talks about hyper racism, which he which? He posits that that

364
00:25:48,010 --> 00:25:53,740
you know that that people that are opposed to multiculturalism

365
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,740
have got a point, but they're naive because they, because

366
00:25:59,740 --> 00:26:02,290
they, which, obviously having a point if you're opposed to

367
00:26:02,290 --> 00:26:07,360
multiculturalism appear appeals to a large swathe of disaffected

368
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:12,970
kind of small c conservative voters. If you if you're opposed

369
00:26:12,970 --> 00:26:16,330
to that, you're naive, because you're not recognizing the

370
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:21,760
pressing, imminent singularity, the point at which point at

371
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,930
which divergence doesn't really matter because, because

372
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,950
technology will far surpass our ability to adapt to it. So

373
00:26:29,950 --> 00:26:32,290
you're not dealing with that issue. If you're, if you're

374
00:26:32,290 --> 00:26:35,110
opposed, if you're a racist. He says you're not dealing with

375
00:26:35,110 --> 00:26:37,330
that because you're not recognizing the reality of

376
00:26:37,330 --> 00:26:41,050
what's coming. And equally, says, if you're if you're

377
00:26:41,050 --> 00:26:46,330
opposed to racists, which is, I it's difficult to get your head

378
00:26:46,330 --> 00:26:48,820
around this. But equally, he says, if you're opposed to

379
00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:53,680
racists, you are also naive, because you're not recognizing

380
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,150
the impact that genetic enhancement will have on on

381
00:26:58,510 --> 00:27:02,080
everybody of all of all different races, and that this

382
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,370
is the issue that we need to, that we need to focus on. Now,

383
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,370
initially, you kind of think, well, it might be, you know,

384
00:27:09,370 --> 00:27:12,520
that's, that's a, it's a, it's an interesting argument to

385
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,900
posit. Let's look at that. But what it ultimately boils down

386
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:21,910
to, as you quite rightly said, is that he therefore asserts

387
00:27:22,330 --> 00:27:26,530
that the only differentiation between human beings, and we've

388
00:27:26,530 --> 00:27:31,870
heard this from other people, like like Kissinger, and that

389
00:27:31,870 --> 00:27:34,990
the only, that the only difference between human beings

390
00:27:34,990 --> 00:27:37,900
going forward into the fit in the future, are those that are

391
00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:42,310
genetically engineered and enhanced, what he calls techno,

392
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:49,660
plastic beings, and the rest of us who will fall behind and lag

393
00:27:49,660 --> 00:27:54,040
behind, like, you know, like, like, like, kind of troglodytes

394
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,670
that, you know, that we won't be able to cope with the

395
00:27:57,670 --> 00:28:01,450
singularity, and therefore we need to be adapted so that we

396
00:28:01,450 --> 00:28:04,870
can become better serving customers, so that we can pay

397
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:09,760
our sovereign rent to the sovereign. Yeah, tax.

398
00:28:11,650 --> 00:28:15,310
Amazing libertarians like this so much. I mean, it's just

399
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,290
it should be studied for generations about how to get a

400
00:28:20,290 --> 00:28:23,920
group of people cheerlead everything they are ostensibly

401
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:24,550
against.

402
00:28:25,150 --> 00:28:28,480
Yeah, no, it's been, it's been absolutely amazing. I mean,

403
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,470
that's, you know, I when I That's why I wrote the book,

404
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:35,380
really. I mean, I looked at it and I just thought, I cannot

405
00:28:35,380 --> 00:28:41,170
believe that they can be. I mean, the deception is so all

406
00:28:41,170 --> 00:28:45,640
encompassing, everything is inverted. Everything is

407
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,790
inverted, so that everything they pretend to be is they're

408
00:28:48,790 --> 00:28:52,120
not. They're the opposite of that. So for example, you know,

409
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,400
they talk about things like yarn talks about this notion of

410
00:28:57,430 --> 00:29:01,540
orbital authority. So if we I mean, and this is another thing

411
00:29:01,540 --> 00:29:04,330
that you need, that I've stressed in the book. You need

412
00:29:04,330 --> 00:29:08,170
to pick apart their language, because they use a lot of

413
00:29:08,170 --> 00:29:13,420
metaphor. Yarn constantly writes in or wrote and still does in

414
00:29:13,450 --> 00:29:17,680
using metaphor. And you need to understand what that, what that,

415
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,350
what they're alluding to with those metaphors. So he talks

416
00:29:20,350 --> 00:29:24,850
about orbital authority. So what he's talking about, he uses the

417
00:29:24,850 --> 00:29:29,350
analogy of some sort of AI. He doesn't specify as AI, but, you

418
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:33,790
know, it's obvious what he's alluding to, some sort of space

419
00:29:33,790 --> 00:29:40,480
weapon system that renders all conflict on Earth moot because

420
00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:46,300
no one can initiate any kind of violent attack or assault, or,

421
00:29:46,330 --> 00:29:49,870
you know, it, start a war, basically because orbital

422
00:29:49,870 --> 00:29:53,590
authority will just, you know, destroy your army or your

423
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:57,220
weaponry or whatever your technology before you even are

424
00:29:57,220 --> 00:30:00,760
able to launch any kind of war. So initially. You kind of think,

425
00:30:00,790 --> 00:30:04,930
Oh, well, okay, what so? But then, then, then we get to the

426
00:30:04,930 --> 00:30:09,580
part of, okay, so who is going to control the orbital

427
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:15,160
authority? Who? Who is going to actually be in charge of the

428
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:20,470
ability to destroy everything on earth at the flick of a switch,

429
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,670
on a whim. Who's going to be in charge of that? To which yarn

430
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:27,940
says, Has he is? He discussed this in his work about orbital

431
00:30:27,940 --> 00:30:31,540
authority, that that's an interesting question, but it's

432
00:30:31,540 --> 00:30:34,690
not something we need to worry about, because once we have

433
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,490
orbital authority, that will enable a network of city states,

434
00:30:39,490 --> 00:30:43,120
what he calls Neo states to thrive. So that's all that

435
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,650
matters. Don't worry about the fact that that is under the

436
00:30:48,670 --> 00:30:52,930
space lasers, yes, somebody or something, yeah.

437
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:56,410
Don't worry that all of that is happening under the most

438
00:30:56,410 --> 00:31:00,820
despot, you know, despotic yoke of tyranny you could possibly

439
00:31:00,820 --> 00:31:04,930
imagine. Just ignore that bit. Just be just be thankful that

440
00:31:04,930 --> 00:31:08,410
you're allowed to live in your designated Smart City. I mean,

441
00:31:08,410 --> 00:31:12,370
it is unreal that they're that they're they're posing as

442
00:31:12,790 --> 00:31:19,240
libertarians. I, I, you know, it does at times make you laugh,

443
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,230
but the problem is, and this is what i This is the real issue.

444
00:31:23,890 --> 00:31:26,380
And one thing that I mentioned in, I mentioned in the book,

445
00:31:26,380 --> 00:31:30,370
it's not that they have these that people like land and yarn

446
00:31:30,370 --> 00:31:36,400
and have these crazy ideas. It's not that that's not the problem.

447
00:31:36,430 --> 00:31:40,720
You know, they're just, they're just, you know, pontificating

448
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,530
about ideology and sort of quasi

449
00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:48,670
that they're creating the philosophy and the

450
00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:52,540
underpinnings, the ideological underpinnings of the system

451
00:31:52,540 --> 00:31:54,070
these people wanted anyway.

452
00:31:54,580 --> 00:31:57,190
Yeah, yeah. They want it anyway. And that's something

453
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:57,400
else.

454
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,900
Yeah, that they're the salesman, yeah. And the problem?

455
00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:05,500
The problem is, there are people like Thiel and Musk and

456
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:10,180
Larry Ellison and people like this that are implementing their

457
00:32:10,180 --> 00:32:11,770
ideas. That's the problem,

458
00:32:12,370 --> 00:32:15,460
yeah, because they have billions of dollars to implement

459
00:32:15,460 --> 00:32:19,450
their ideas and now, because the government claims it's rubber

460
00:32:19,450 --> 00:32:23,020
stamping innovation, which is basically letting these

461
00:32:23,020 --> 00:32:26,080
billionaires do whatever they want. They can build it even

462
00:32:26,110 --> 00:32:26,710
faster.

463
00:32:27,460 --> 00:32:30,190
Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, you know, when we think about things

464
00:32:30,190 --> 00:32:34,750
like, you know, the development and the money that is being put

465
00:32:34,750 --> 00:32:41,320
in, and certainly by Musk into kind of orbital warfare, he

466
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,380
would be the orbital authority, SpaceX and its

467
00:32:44,380 --> 00:32:49,000
partners. I mean, as of right now. I mean, who else is even

468
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:49,690
close?

469
00:32:50,410 --> 00:32:54,250
Exactly, exactly, so, so, so, that's, that's what I mean.

470
00:32:54,250 --> 00:32:55,330
I mean that although

471
00:32:55,390 --> 00:32:59,590
it's a private company, Iain, it's, it's the the free

472
00:32:59,590 --> 00:33:02,890
market forces ultimately control it, right?

473
00:33:03,580 --> 00:33:06,820
Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that's, that's the thing I'm as

474
00:33:06,820 --> 00:33:10,540
well. I mean, they call that, you constantly see, yeah, you

475
00:33:10,540 --> 00:33:14,650
constantly see, in the media, them referred to as tech bros.

476
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,820
Like, it's, Hey, yeah, it's like, the cool tech bros. I

477
00:33:18,820 --> 00:33:22,900
mean, that's like, you know, that's like calling Hitler,

478
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:23,410
yeah,

479
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,080
they paint them as, like, track bros, like they're a

480
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,680
fraternity. But you know, Freemasons are also a

481
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,300
fraternity, you know? Yeah? I mean, fraternities are just

482
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:38,710
harmless beard chuggers that you know,

483
00:33:39,550 --> 00:33:43,900
referring to Hitler as the artist guy, you know, it's,

484
00:33:44,410 --> 00:33:52,480
it's, it's, it's, yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's awful

485
00:33:52,510 --> 00:33:55,900
what they're doing. I mean, you know, we're starting to see the

486
00:33:55,900 --> 00:34:00,760
sharp end of that happening now. I mean, the technology that is

487
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,540
being rolled out around us now, these and this is happening in

488
00:34:04,540 --> 00:34:07,450
partnership. I mean, a big, a big part of what I talk about as

489
00:34:07,450 --> 00:34:10,000
well is that the, you know, obviously, in the US, the

490
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,650
situation is that the gut that the Trump administration is

491
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,760
utterly beholden to this, to this group. I mean, you know,

492
00:34:18,790 --> 00:34:23,290
basically they put him in office so, so, you know, it's, well,

493
00:34:23,290 --> 00:34:23,470
it's

494
00:34:23,470 --> 00:34:26,170
not just that. I would argue it's not just that they put them

495
00:34:26,170 --> 00:34:29,590
in office. I mean, I agree with you, they did, but also they are

496
00:34:29,590 --> 00:34:32,920
the national security state. They run the national security

497
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,710
state. The national security state is a public, private

498
00:34:35,710 --> 00:34:39,040
partnership dominated by its contractors. And its main

499
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,900
contractors are people like are run by people like Larry Ellison

500
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:49,960
and Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. It's funny. Apparently, some

501
00:34:50,350 --> 00:34:54,370
journalist who recently attacked me, I won't bring up any names,

502
00:34:54,700 --> 00:34:59,560
claimed that Peter Thiel has no actual role at Palantir, which

503
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,590
he COVID. Found it anymore, seemingly forgetting that he is

504
00:35:02,590 --> 00:35:08,620
chairman of the board. Amazing how people can be. Just forget

505
00:35:08,620 --> 00:35:14,650
major facts when incentives are in place. Yeah.

506
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,050
I mean, it's like saying that he's not a globalist when

507
00:35:17,050 --> 00:35:19,240
he sits on the steering committee of the Bilderberg

508
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:22,030
Group. I mean, it's just like

509
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:30,160
the B and Bilderberg stands for based Iain, yeah, they're

510
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:35,260
all super cool based meme Lords that have been darkly

511
00:35:35,260 --> 00:35:40,630
enlightened, and therefore we should know that they're much

512
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:43,240
better than Klaus Schwab, right?

513
00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:47,530
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, and I think a big part of this as

514
00:35:47,530 --> 00:35:55,480
well is to get the skeptical half of the of the population on

515
00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,940
board with ideas that they are they are innately opposed to. So

516
00:36:00,940 --> 00:36:04,630
if you think about the kind of, you know, I keep going back to

517
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:07,000
use the term, but it's reasonable one, the small c

518
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,720
conservative kind of perspective, who broadly are

519
00:36:10,750 --> 00:36:14,470
very uncomfortable with with kind of big government and big

520
00:36:15,340 --> 00:36:19,840
certainly globalist overreach, and don't like the idea of some

521
00:36:19,870 --> 00:36:23,050
faceless bureaucrat sitting somewhere telling them what to

522
00:36:23,050 --> 00:36:27,160
do in some office in another country, you know, from a UN,

523
00:36:27,610 --> 00:36:30,340
you know, Secretariat or whatever, they're broadly

524
00:36:30,340 --> 00:36:33,820
against the idea. So they are resistant to things like

525
00:36:33,820 --> 00:36:37,420
sustainable development, innately, naturally resistant to

526
00:36:37,420 --> 00:36:39,850
it. They don't they're not interested in it. They don't

527
00:36:39,850 --> 00:36:44,620
like it. So how do you get them? I mean, if the people that think

528
00:36:44,620 --> 00:36:49,150
that the planet is going to is on fire, they they have already

529
00:36:49,150 --> 00:36:53,680
kind of bought into this kind of the the necessity for some sort

530
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,690
of massive, centralized bureaucracy to save us all from

531
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,590
CO two, they're already, they're already on board with that idea,

532
00:37:02,830 --> 00:37:05,860
but, but who? How do you get all the people that aren't on board

533
00:37:05,860 --> 00:37:10,270
with that idea to go along with it? Well, along come, along come

534
00:37:10,270 --> 00:37:17,650
this gaggle of oligarchs and managing to repackage that

535
00:37:18,340 --> 00:37:23,380
exactly the same centralized kind of digital control

536
00:37:23,410 --> 00:37:29,410
mechanism and sell it to a different a different audience,

537
00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:33,970
through through a new kind of and you have to say,

538
00:37:33,970 --> 00:37:38,380
fundamentally, fundamentally deceptive narrative.

539
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,230
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think another reason they've

540
00:37:41,230 --> 00:37:44,710
been successful too, is that a lot of what they sell,

541
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:48,400
particularly in the Neo reactionary movement, and maybe

542
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,710
now's probably a good time to get into more general

543
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,130
definitions of it and what they believe in all of that. But as I

544
00:37:54,130 --> 00:37:59,200
understand it, one of the main hallmarks of that ideology is

545
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,160
this belief in the need to completely privatize the state.

546
00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:06,490
And so, for example, if you look at the WEF, you know, a lot of

547
00:38:06,490 --> 00:38:09,610
people, I would argue, and I think at this point, looking

548
00:38:09,610 --> 00:38:12,940
back, some of them were probably paid to make this argument that

549
00:38:12,940 --> 00:38:17,530
the World Economic Forum is is a communist organization, when in

550
00:38:17,530 --> 00:38:22,060
reality, it's a promoter of public private partnership, and

551
00:38:22,060 --> 00:38:24,430
that a lot of the countries were told are quote, unquote

552
00:38:24,430 --> 00:38:28,300
communist, or actually function a bit more like technocracy,

553
00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:31,780
which is a different ideology. And in this context, you know

554
00:38:31,810 --> 00:38:37,900
words matter, because by by making the WEF communist and

555
00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:42,400
associating it purely with the left, it ignores the fact that

556
00:38:42,430 --> 00:38:45,430
it's a public private partnership vehicle at a global

557
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:49,210
scale. And so, you know, traditionally right on the

558
00:38:49,210 --> 00:38:52,060
ideological spectrum, most people consider that the left

559
00:38:52,060 --> 00:38:54,760
wants a greater role for the public sector than the private

560
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,330
sector, and that the public sector keeps the excesses of the

561
00:38:58,330 --> 00:39:01,630
private sector in check, right, and that the right favors

562
00:39:01,630 --> 00:39:05,290
essentially the inverse, or the private sector is unburdened by

563
00:39:05,290 --> 00:39:11,110
the public sector to innovate, etc, etc. So basically, during,

564
00:39:11,110 --> 00:39:14,680
I would argue, during the COVID era, the World Economic Forum

565
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,610
and all of that, all this whole network that was behind a lot of

566
00:39:18,820 --> 00:39:23,050
what you wrote about in pseudo pandemic were arguing for

567
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,520
greater power for the public sector to deal with crisis X, Y

568
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,170
and Z. Now the poly crisis, things of that nature, and for

569
00:39:32,170 --> 00:39:36,550
those that rejected that vision, we're they are now being sold

570
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:41,230
this, which is a complete retreat into the private side of

571
00:39:41,230 --> 00:39:43,210
the public private partnership.

572
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,630
Yeah, yeah. Fundamentally, that's what they're suggesting.

573
00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:49,450
They're suggesting governance as a service run by sovereign

574
00:39:49,450 --> 00:39:54,700
corporations so entirely. You know, Thiel quite famously said

575
00:39:54,700 --> 00:39:57,760
that one of his objectives was to do away with politics in all

576
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,070
its forms. And.

577
00:40:00,070 --> 00:40:04,570
Reward. Yeah. So the ideology, I would argue, of all

578
00:40:04,570 --> 00:40:07,990
of these things, this shouldn't really be discussed in terms of

579
00:40:07,990 --> 00:40:12,850
its left versus right. Um, they're the both sides in this

580
00:40:12,850 --> 00:40:17,530
paradigm we're talking about are offering authoritarianism, um,

581
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,030
at the end of the day, and, uh, mass surveillance and the end

582
00:40:22,060 --> 00:40:26,200
and death, not just of politics, as Thiel might put it, but also

583
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,550
the death of individual liberty and sovereignty. But really,

584
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:35,110
what it comes down to is, will it be an authoritarian public

585
00:40:35,110 --> 00:40:40,900
sector doing everything, or will it be an authoritarian gov Corp,

586
00:40:40,930 --> 00:40:44,860
or SOV Corp, a private corporation taking the role of

587
00:40:44,860 --> 00:40:48,610
government like that's essentially the difference, as

588
00:40:48,610 --> 00:40:52,030
it seems to be, in practical terms, which is honestly

589
00:40:52,090 --> 00:40:53,290
cosmetic. I think,

590
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,020
yeah, no, it's absolutely cosmetic. Because, I mean, if

591
00:40:56,020 --> 00:40:58,780
you think that you know, the notion of the public private

592
00:40:58,780 --> 00:41:01,930
partnership is kind of the kind of expression of stakeholder

593
00:41:01,930 --> 00:41:07,390
capitalism which is which is authoritarian and but

594
00:41:07,390 --> 00:41:10,840
authoritarianism in the largely in the hands of the private

595
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:17,620
sector. And the same is true about the idea what the ideas

596
00:41:17,620 --> 00:41:21,070
that have been promoted about the the Neo reactionaries are

597
00:41:21,130 --> 00:41:26,140
promoting, but theirs is even more overt. Theirs is theirs is

598
00:41:26,140 --> 00:41:31,270
that there should be no public sector. There would be no public

599
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:37,900
sector at all. So they're kind of just a king, just Yeah, yeah,

600
00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:42,820
a monarch, a corporate monarch, who would, who would rule over,

601
00:41:42,850 --> 00:41:45,670
over the city, state. I mean, that's, that's what they,

602
00:41:45,730 --> 00:41:49,270
they're suggesting. But I mean, in a way, in it, kind of, in a

603
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:54,730
way, they've solved the kind of the Left, Right paradigm they

604
00:41:54,730 --> 00:41:58,420
would argue, by making the private sector the public

605
00:41:58,420 --> 00:42:02,050
sector. It's all one thing. It's just, it's just, they just

606
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,540
homogenized the whole thing and said, Oh well, it's all one

607
00:42:04,540 --> 00:42:08,380
thing, all that really matters is that, you know, you've got

608
00:42:08,380 --> 00:42:11,740
some rules to follow, and we'll set them, I think. No, sorry,

609
00:42:11,740 --> 00:42:12,970
you carry on. Well, I was

610
00:42:12,970 --> 00:42:14,350
just going to say, I think that's one of the reasons

611
00:42:14,350 --> 00:42:16,870
they've been so successful, is that almost everyone in the

612
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:21,160
world today still operate, operates in the Old Left, Right

613
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,190
paradigm, whereas these people are operating in a completely

614
00:42:24,190 --> 00:42:26,290
different paradigm, and they're the ones that are actually

615
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:31,780
setting policy right, there's a completely different ideological

616
00:42:32,170 --> 00:42:37,270
system at work here that most people have no idea about, and

617
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:39,910
then these people sell their ideas Using the old paradigm

618
00:42:39,910 --> 00:42:41,350
that no longer applies.

619
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,760
Basically, yeah, I mean, I mean, so land, Nick land, who,

620
00:42:45,836 --> 00:42:50,611
he worked in this thing called the cybernetics culture Research

621
00:42:50,687 --> 00:42:55,386
Unit at Warwick University. And they were kind of iconoclastic

622
00:42:55,462 --> 00:43:00,162
scholars, and they and they were looking at how humanity would

623
00:43:00,237 --> 00:43:04,709
cope with the singularity, which, and that's an assumption.

624
00:43:04,785 --> 00:43:09,561
The Singularity Is the assumed point where technology outstrips

625
00:43:09,636 --> 00:43:14,412
our ability to adapt to it. And you know very much I mean, Mark

626
00:43:14,487 --> 00:43:18,581
Anderson, who's fully on board with this, says, I'm an

627
00:43:18,656 --> 00:43:23,128
accelerationist, which is very much part of Neo reactionary

628
00:43:23,204 --> 00:43:28,055
thinking that he considers. And he's not, obviously not alone in

629
00:43:28,131 --> 00:43:32,376
this. He considers AI to be his philosophers, or the Neo

630
00:43:32,452 --> 00:43:36,924
reactionaries, philosophers stone. So they also assume that

631
00:43:36,999 --> 00:43:41,775
technology is the much like the, you know, if we talk about the

632
00:43:41,850 --> 00:43:46,323
the the technocrats of the 1930s they see technology is the

633
00:43:46,398 --> 00:43:50,946
solution to everything. Every human problem can be solved by

634
00:43:51,022 --> 00:43:55,494
technology. They they believe now, or they say they believe

635
00:43:55,570 --> 00:44:00,269
now. And Anderson, when he, when he listed his, his the things

636
00:44:00,345 --> 00:44:04,969
that he opposed in the techno optimist manifesto included the

637
00:44:05,045 --> 00:44:09,365
fact that saying things like China, the you know, China's

638
00:44:09,441 --> 00:44:13,913
technological innovation, the World Economic Forum, the you

639
00:44:13,989 --> 00:44:18,537
know, everything that he said, sustainable development, that

640
00:44:18,613 --> 00:44:23,009
all these ideas were rooted in communism. So they're quite

641
00:44:23,085 --> 00:44:27,557
happy to play the left, right kind of card, but at the same

642
00:44:27,632 --> 00:44:32,105
time, they are working at a level where the only thing that

643
00:44:32,180 --> 00:44:36,728
exists is the fusion between the public and the private that

644
00:44:36,804 --> 00:44:41,579
they're not interested in, these divisions that we are given to

645
00:44:41,655 --> 00:44:46,203
believe in. And you know, a lot of people are obsessed about

646
00:44:46,279 --> 00:44:50,978
they have no interest in that, none. All they're interested in

647
00:44:51,054 --> 00:44:55,678
is the fusion. And you have to say, really. The absorption of

648
00:44:55,754 --> 00:45:00,680
the public sector by the private sector, which, of course, as the

649
00:45:00,756 --> 00:45:05,152
tech bro CEO kings, they will lead, and they will dominate

650
00:45:05,228 --> 00:45:09,852
with their monopolies. That's that's what their that's their,

651
00:45:09,928 --> 00:45:14,400
that's what that it's not their game. That is what they are

652
00:45:14,476 --> 00:45:19,175
doing. I mean, one of the things that I stress in the book, is

653
00:45:19,251 --> 00:45:23,723
not that this is some kind of future, theoretical dystopia,

654
00:45:23,799 --> 00:45:28,650
this, this is being constructed around us now. We can see the we

655
00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:32,970
can see what companies like Palantir are doing in places

656
00:45:33,046 --> 00:45:37,897
like Israel. We can see how they are operating. You know, you've

657
00:45:37,973 --> 00:45:42,521
you, and you've done a lot of excellent work, which are also

658
00:45:42,597 --> 00:45:47,296
included in the book about, you know, the origins of companies

659
00:45:47,372 --> 00:45:52,071
like Palantir. I mean, they're, they're governments around the

660
00:45:52,147 --> 00:45:56,544
world. For example, both the US government and the British

661
00:45:56,619 --> 00:46:00,864
government have bought some software, important software

662
00:46:00,940 --> 00:46:05,715
platform called Palantir Gotham. Now, one of the things that in

663
00:46:05,791 --> 00:46:10,566
order for decentralized kind of digital systems, whether that's

664
00:46:10,642 --> 00:46:14,811
decentralized currency or decentralized vendor agnostic

665
00:46:14,887 --> 00:46:19,435
digital ID products, in order for them to be re centralized,

666
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:23,603
the very important concept to wrap your head around is

667
00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:27,696
interoperability these various diff what, what the US

668
00:46:27,772 --> 00:46:32,548
Administration called disparate databases or technological kind

669
00:46:32,623 --> 00:46:37,095
of platforms need to be linked together? Well, Palantir and

670
00:46:37,171 --> 00:46:41,719
Oracle. Oracle have got a thing called Golden Gate. Palantir

671
00:46:41,795 --> 00:46:46,267
have got some software called Gotham. Is the arc, is the is

672
00:46:46,343 --> 00:46:50,587
the software that makes interoperability real. It is the

673
00:46:50,663 --> 00:46:54,984
software that achieves that interoperability. It can take

674
00:46:55,060 --> 00:46:59,911
data from any source and convert it into a standardized machine,

675
00:46:59,986 --> 00:47:04,610
exchangeable, readable format, so it so while they're they're

676
00:47:04,686 --> 00:47:09,385
talking about calling something communist or calling something

677
00:47:09,461 --> 00:47:14,009
they're opposed to globalism. They are putting in place. Now

678
00:47:14,085 --> 00:47:18,709
governments have bought this. They've already bought it. They

679
00:47:18,784 --> 00:47:23,181
are putting in place now the technology that will make the

680
00:47:23,256 --> 00:47:27,729
ultimate form of globalism a reality true global governance

681
00:47:27,804 --> 00:47:31,746
because, because they'll create what appears to be a

682
00:47:31,822 --> 00:47:36,521
decentralized global network, quite obviously, a decentralized

683
00:47:36,597 --> 00:47:41,069
global network of what look appear to be nodes on some sort

684
00:47:41,145 --> 00:47:45,844
of unified ledger which will be rendered interoperable through

685
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:50,620
the technology that they're developing and putting into place.

686
00:47:51,550 --> 00:47:53,590
I'm glad you brought up Larry Ellison and Oracle for a

687
00:47:53,590 --> 00:47:57,670
second, because a lot of what you're discussing here is a very

688
00:47:57,670 --> 00:48:01,630
old agenda. It very visibly can be traced back to the immediate

689
00:48:01,630 --> 00:48:07,120
post 911 era in the US. So right after 911 Larry Ellison, of

690
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,240
course, agreeing with the CIA, which he used to work for, used

691
00:48:10,270 --> 00:48:14,950
to work for, wrote an op ed in the New York Times, I believe,

692
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:17,920
basically saying that the only way to prevent terrorist attacks

693
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:23,260
of the future was to end the silo of of data between national

694
00:48:23,260 --> 00:48:27,610
security and other government agencies, basically having mass

695
00:48:27,610 --> 00:48:31,300
interoperability of the data that you can access all of the

696
00:48:31,300 --> 00:48:36,490
data in one go, because data protection laws before 911

697
00:48:36,490 --> 00:48:40,960
prevented that. This was, of course, also a goal of Palantir,

698
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:46,990
the restyled post 911 total Information Awareness Program

699
00:48:46,990 --> 00:48:53,410
housed within the Pentagon at DARPA. And now that Larry

700
00:48:53,410 --> 00:48:57,100
Ellison and Peter Thiel and these people have a significant

701
00:48:57,100 --> 00:49:01,090
influence over the Trump administration, I believe it was

702
00:49:01,090 --> 00:49:04,000
recently announced that those silos are about to be

703
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:09,400
eliminated, or imminently being eliminated, so that talent here

704
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:14,590
can more appropriately profile people, right? And this is very

705
00:49:14,590 --> 00:49:17,590
problematic, because, of course, after the immediate post 911

706
00:49:17,590 --> 00:49:22,030
era, we had the war of domestic terror, you know, being launched

707
00:49:22,030 --> 00:49:24,640
in tandem with the war on domestic terror. And there's

708
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,850
only been little spurts of it, but really the spurts that have

709
00:49:27,850 --> 00:49:30,550
happened, and what many people have argued have been, you know,

710
00:49:30,550 --> 00:49:33,820
a mix of real and also false flag events to justify the

711
00:49:33,820 --> 00:49:37,720
expansion of this infrastructure. You know, we now

712
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:42,250
have, you know, the Trump administration. They're separate

713
00:49:42,250 --> 00:49:45,820
policies that seem to be separate from the tech bros, as

714
00:49:45,820 --> 00:49:50,560
they're called, as you noted, doing things like like a general

715
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,730
US General recently said that if he was given a directive to

716
00:49:54,730 --> 00:49:57,880
attack a domestic terror organization with military

717
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,670
force, he would do so. And. And then there's been this

718
00:50:00,670 --> 00:50:05,050
normalization of having military in law enforcement roles

719
00:50:05,050 --> 00:50:08,590
throughout various US cities. There's been kind of this

720
00:50:09,820 --> 00:50:14,500
lawlessness with the rules of engagement of war abroad, sort

721
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:18,250
of a war, a return to the war of terrorism, where you can just

722
00:50:18,250 --> 00:50:21,160
drone, bomb a boat and claim they were trafficking drugs. And

723
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:25,600
it's fine, without even having to have evidence of that, you

724
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,180
know. And so, you know, in the past, with like the Iraq war,

725
00:50:28,180 --> 00:50:31,570
they had to, you know, have their the yellow cake and in

726
00:50:31,570 --> 00:50:36,010
this tube, the Colin Powell, you know, test tube shaking thing

727
00:50:36,010 --> 00:50:38,320
and that kind of fear mongering, even though they knew it was a

728
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,230
lie at the time, they still lied to people to justify it. I mean,

729
00:50:41,230 --> 00:50:47,020
now the bar is even lower, but this type of stuff is meant to

730
00:50:47,020 --> 00:50:51,010
go hand in hand with the stuff that these tech oligarchs are

731
00:50:51,010 --> 00:50:55,540
building these surveillance systems. And there's no it's no

732
00:50:55,540 --> 00:50:58,420
coincidence. I would argue that you have Larry Ellison saying

733
00:50:58,420 --> 00:51:00,700
things like, soon, AI surveillance will make sure

734
00:51:00,700 --> 00:51:04,270
citizens are on their best behavior, right? Because

735
00:51:04,270 --> 00:51:07,240
otherwise, if you're doing naughty things, you know, they

736
00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:10,600
could just say that you're linked to Antifa or some other

737
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:13,420
domestic terror organization, and they're developing now the

738
00:51:13,420 --> 00:51:17,410
legal infrastructure to be able to kill with impunity. And the

739
00:51:17,410 --> 00:51:19,930
way that you brought up that Palantir, for example, is

740
00:51:19,930 --> 00:51:23,830
enabling the IDF to kill with impunity in Gaza, and this is

741
00:51:23,830 --> 00:51:28,810
something that is clearly going to be global in scope if they

742
00:51:28,810 --> 00:51:31,750
get away with it. And that brings me back to to the what we

743
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:35,530
brought up earlier, with the idea of the network state and

744
00:51:35,530 --> 00:51:39,220
the patchwork of realms and the smart cities. And how, if you,

745
00:51:39,430 --> 00:51:42,520
Oh, you don't like life in the smart city? Well, you can just

746
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,510
leave. It'll be hard to leave when these people who are also

747
00:51:46,510 --> 00:51:50,890
trying to dominate autonomous warfare and autonomous drone

748
00:51:50,890 --> 00:51:54,310
swarms everywhere have decided that there are these various No

749
00:51:54,310 --> 00:51:58,780
Go Zones, or they've associated you with domestic terror

750
00:51:58,780 --> 00:52:03,040
literature that you read online, or whatever, you know, any sort

751
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,300
of of, I mean, it's just, it's marriage, it's everything that

752
00:52:07,300 --> 00:52:11,110
people were warning against in the post 911 era. And now some

753
00:52:11,110 --> 00:52:15,940
of the biggest voices that dissented back in the decades

754
00:52:15,940 --> 00:52:19,990
ago are now cheerleaders for this, basically. I mean, these

755
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:23,170
guys are Neo conservatives rebranded, but they're getting

756
00:52:23,170 --> 00:52:26,050
away with so much more than the Neo cons, I think even could

757
00:52:26,050 --> 00:52:30,790
have imagined in the early 2000s in the immediate post 911 area,

758
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:33,370
when they seem to have a bank blank slate to do whatever they

759
00:52:33,370 --> 00:52:39,460
wanted at the time. I mean, now it's just the possibilities that

760
00:52:39,460 --> 00:52:45,040
they have that they're bringing to the forefront are just, I

761
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,490
don't I don't even it leaves me speechless. It is, it is

762
00:52:48,490 --> 00:52:52,420
staggering, and it is staggeringly bad. And what's

763
00:52:52,420 --> 00:52:55,840
even more crazy is that a lot of the people that used to be

764
00:52:55,870 --> 00:53:00,250
against this stuff cheerlead a lot of these figures that we're

765
00:53:00,250 --> 00:53:03,670
talking about today, bringing this in so like Glenn Greenwald,

766
00:53:04,060 --> 00:53:07,420
who was known for his reporting on the Snowden documents, right

767
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:13,600
again about mass surveillance, is cheerleading. JD Vance, big

768
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:18,220
fan of him, even though he is basically Peter Thiel's golf

769
00:53:18,220 --> 00:53:23,110
glove at the end of the day. And, you know, Alex Jones, for

770
00:53:23,110 --> 00:53:28,300
example. You know, railing about Posse Comitatus and how all the

771
00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:31,150
neocons and all the bad stuff they're doing, you know,

772
00:53:31,150 --> 00:53:33,880
cheerleaders for this stuff too. Recently, had a guest on his

773
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,100
show talking about how Venezuela's government needs to

774
00:53:36,100 --> 00:53:40,750
be replaced with a technocracy with a biometric digital ID. I

775
00:53:40,750 --> 00:53:45,850
mean, that is where we are right now. It is, it is a sight to

776
00:53:45,850 --> 00:53:46,300
see.

777
00:53:47,170 --> 00:53:50,828
Yeah, it's extremely alarming. I mean, you know, a

778
00:53:50,901 --> 00:53:54,998
good example probably is, you know, obviously you've got

779
00:53:55,071 --> 00:53:59,315
people commentators like that saying welcoming the idea of

780
00:53:59,388 --> 00:54:03,119
regime change, you know, essentially getting rid of

781
00:54:03,193 --> 00:54:07,509
governments and replacing them with techno crap, kind of AI

782
00:54:07,582 --> 00:54:11,680
controlled technocracy, you know. And it's, it's, that's

783
00:54:11,753 --> 00:54:16,508
pretty crazy stuff, but then you get that also, I mean, at least,

784
00:54:16,582 --> 00:54:21,045
although it was a although it was a deception, at least there

785
00:54:21,118 --> 00:54:25,069
was some sort of rational narrative for for the war on

786
00:54:25,142 --> 00:54:29,605
terror. It was a it was a fake one. But if, if you thought it

787
00:54:29,678 --> 00:54:34,361
was real, at least it made some kind of logical sense. You know,

788
00:54:34,434 --> 00:54:38,751
just saying we're going to embargo all, all oil exports and

789
00:54:38,824 --> 00:54:42,848
oil, all oil traffic to Venezuela because we claim that

790
00:54:42,921 --> 00:54:47,384
we have rights to all the oil fields that to their oil fields

791
00:54:47,457 --> 00:54:51,554
are just just, which is what Trump recently announced. I

792
00:54:51,627 --> 00:54:55,578
mean, there's not even any attempt to make any kind of

793
00:54:55,652 --> 00:55:00,115
cogent argument as to as to why that's why that's uh. A Well,

794
00:55:00,188 --> 00:55:04,139
plausible, you know, this kind of is you don't have to

795
00:55:04,212 --> 00:55:08,602
dispense, you can dispense with any kind of logical sense or

796
00:55:08,675 --> 00:55:13,211
plausible argument, if you can just say, Well, you know, we're

797
00:55:13,284 --> 00:55:17,528
in charge, and what are you going to do about it? Which is

798
00:55:17,601 --> 00:55:21,698
basically the, basically the whole point of the networks

799
00:55:21,771 --> 00:55:26,381
well, not the, necessarily the network state, but certainly the

800
00:55:26,454 --> 00:55:29,893
Neo reactionary movement and certainly the dark

801
00:55:29,966 --> 00:55:34,502
enlightenment, is exactly that you know that you you need some

802
00:55:34,575 --> 00:55:38,892
strong, autocratic CEO monarch to just, just for society to

803
00:55:38,965 --> 00:55:43,355
function. You know, otherwise, society is hobbled in it. You

804
00:55:43,428 --> 00:55:47,818
know that they Curtis yarn spoke about this idea of domestic

805
00:55:47,891 --> 00:55:51,842
which, what he meant was, you know, the people like us

806
00:55:51,915 --> 00:55:55,939
insisting on this silly notion of democratic oversight,

807
00:55:56,012 --> 00:56:00,475
whatever that might be, that's just ridiculous. We just brush

808
00:56:00,549 --> 00:56:04,938
all that aside. We don't need any of that. I mean, land said

809
00:56:05,012 --> 00:56:09,621
that our sovereignty should be treated with derision, so we are

810
00:56:09,694 --> 00:56:13,572
not with this is another important concept to bear in

811
00:56:13,645 --> 00:56:17,742
mind, that the mindset that these people have adopted is

812
00:56:17,815 --> 00:56:22,205
that we are nothing. I mean, I can't it's it's everywhere in

813
00:56:22,278 --> 00:56:26,961
every in all their ideology that they have taken on board. And I

814
00:56:27,034 --> 00:56:31,204
might, and I agree a little bit with the comment you made

815
00:56:31,278 --> 00:56:35,594
earlier, Whitney, I'm not sure, and that's something else I

816
00:56:35,668 --> 00:56:40,131
explore in the book. Whether this is just convenient, whether

817
00:56:40,204 --> 00:56:44,447
they actually believe in this kind of pseudo philosophical

818
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,837
garbage that is the dark and light and or whether it's just

819
00:56:48,910 --> 00:56:53,081
convenient to use that as some sort of intellectual, fake

820
00:56:53,154 --> 00:56:57,617
intellectual justification for getting what they want. But at

821
00:56:57,690 --> 00:57:02,373
the end of the day, that doesn't really matter because, because,

822
00:57:02,446 --> 00:57:07,201
because they are saying, openly, saying that they believe in this

823
00:57:07,275 --> 00:57:11,372
stuff, and what that means is that they believe that the

824
00:57:11,445 --> 00:57:15,396
private sector autocratic, centralized authority rules

825
00:57:15,469 --> 00:57:19,713
unchallenged, And nobody has got any right to challenge it

826
00:57:19,786 --> 00:57:24,395
because, because they know best, because our I mean, you can go

827
00:57:24,468 --> 00:57:29,078
all the way back to people like Brzezinski and stuff making the

828
00:57:29,151 --> 00:57:33,321
same argument, and that's something else that I point out

829
00:57:33,394 --> 00:57:37,272
in the book, nothing. None of this is really new, but

830
00:57:37,345 --> 00:57:41,589
nonetheless, it is now overt. They are, they are. They are

831
00:57:41,662 --> 00:57:46,052
packaging this up and selling dictatorship openly as somehow

832
00:57:46,125 --> 00:57:50,661
beneficial. I mean, something, something that yarn is infamous

833
00:57:50,734 --> 00:57:55,271
for saying, is that dictatorship is good. Now, when he when he

834
00:57:55,344 --> 00:57:59,734
said that, when he said that about two weeks after he'd said

835
00:57:59,807 --> 00:58:04,416
that Thiel then gave, then gave a speech in which he reiterated

836
00:58:04,489 --> 00:58:08,587
that point. Thiel was talking about it in the context of

837
00:58:08,660 --> 00:58:12,903
global corporations, saying that it needs, they need to be

838
00:58:12,976 --> 00:58:17,439
dictatorial for in a business sense, Yarvin was talking about

839
00:58:17,513 --> 00:58:21,537
it in a sociopolitical sense. But clearly the you know,

840
00:58:21,610 --> 00:58:26,073
they're absolutely on board with this idea that they have the

841
00:58:26,146 --> 00:58:30,829
knowledge, the wherewithal, you know, the the the the necessary,

842
00:58:30,902 --> 00:58:35,072
the necessary technological power, the necessary economic

843
00:58:35,145 --> 00:58:39,023
and financial power to rule Absolutely, and that that

844
00:58:39,096 --> 00:58:43,486
somehow is good for the rest of us. And it's that is seeping

845
00:58:43,559 --> 00:58:48,242
into, as you were talking about earlier, as well, the, you know,

846
00:58:48,315 --> 00:58:52,997
the decisions of the of the some of the decisions that the Trump

847
00:58:53,071 --> 00:58:57,387
administration has made, that is seeping into the political

848
00:58:57,461 --> 00:59:01,997
lexicon as well. You know, I can just completely ignore the US

849
00:59:02,070 --> 00:59:06,167
Constitution and put troops on the streets, in in, in US

850
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:10,923
cities. I can do that because I am, I am the Supreme Leader. You

851
00:59:10,996 --> 00:59:15,459
know, that's that. And people, as you rightly say, people are

852
00:59:15,532 --> 00:59:19,849
on board with it. They're they think, oh yeah. Well, that's

853
00:59:19,922 --> 00:59:24,019
quite Yeah, that's good. He's going to solve crime by by

854
00:59:24,092 --> 00:59:26,800
completely ignoring the Constitution.

855
00:59:27,190 --> 00:59:33,160
Well, divine right of techno kings. It has been a remarkable

856
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:40,840
sales campaign for it, and here we are, and it's crazy. And I

857
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:44,320
think one of the reasons people have you know, been so

858
00:59:44,350 --> 00:59:48,430
susceptible to this is because there was a huge media campaign

859
00:59:48,430 --> 00:59:55,210
that was launched on the back of discontent of the COVID era, and

860
00:59:55,210 --> 00:59:58,150
it's been remarkably successful. And I think now the

861
00:59:58,150 --> 01:00:00,580
proliferation of artificial intelligence. Intelligence on a

862
01:00:00,580 --> 01:00:04,150
lot of these platforms. When we were all pushed into the digital

863
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:07,990
realm during the COVID era, they have now been heavily

864
01:00:09,580 --> 01:00:13,750
inoculated. I guess you could say with artificial intelligence

865
01:00:14,710 --> 01:00:18,190
accounts that are not real people that seem to be real,

866
01:00:19,030 --> 01:00:24,310
deep fakes videos of people that aren't actually them. This has

867
01:00:24,310 --> 01:00:28,810
actually happened to me. There is an AI version of me currently

868
01:00:28,900 --> 01:00:33,910
loose on YouTube saying things I've never said. And I'm sure

869
01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:37,270
it's happening to other people, if it's happening to me as well,

870
01:00:37,390 --> 01:00:41,770
but the ultimate goal is that no one really knows what to think

871
01:00:41,770 --> 01:00:46,030
about anything anymore. And so a lot of people who are unprepared

872
01:00:46,540 --> 01:00:49,750
psychologically for the consequences of that, or rather

873
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:53,680
are completely unaware of them altogether, become extremely

874
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:58,780
more, even more malleable than ever in the context of these

875
01:00:58,780 --> 01:01:02,320
platforms, and what has been a manufactured dependence on them

876
01:01:03,250 --> 01:01:07,420
that really took off during the COVID era. And I would argue

877
01:01:08,890 --> 01:01:14,320
that this has been the plan for some time. And it's funny,

878
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,980
because a lot of these people, and I'd like to talk about this

879
01:01:17,980 --> 01:01:20,710
for a little bit, you know, like Peter Thiel and so, and you

880
01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:24,490
know, people like Nick land too, and this idea of the coming

881
01:01:24,490 --> 01:01:28,090
supremacy of AI via the singularity and all of that, a

882
01:01:28,090 --> 01:01:33,010
lot of that is discussed by people like Henry Kissinger and

883
01:01:33,010 --> 01:01:38,530
his successor, or self styled successor, the former Google CEO

884
01:01:38,530 --> 01:01:43,780
Eric Schmidt. Eric Schmidt and Henry Kissinger wrote this book

885
01:01:43,810 --> 01:01:46,360
about AI. Well, they wrote a couple books about AI, but

886
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,360
basically they argue and Kissinger in particular, which

887
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:53,500
is important, because Kissinger is pretty notorious for, you

888
01:01:53,500 --> 01:01:56,560
know, orchestrating who's abroad with the CIA back when he was

889
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,500
Secretary of State, and being a major fixture at these globalist

890
01:01:59,500 --> 01:02:04,540
confabs like Bilderberg and such in the in the years after, you

891
01:02:04,540 --> 01:02:08,530
know, he Herald AI not as a tool of, you know, a lot of the

892
01:02:08,530 --> 01:02:11,470
other, you know, utopian sounding rhetoric that often

893
01:02:11,470 --> 01:02:16,300
gets thrown around by the tech Bros and these people. He

894
01:02:16,300 --> 01:02:20,860
instead noted that it was its real promise. Wasn't a tool of

895
01:02:20,860 --> 01:02:24,220
basically manipulating perception of the public, which

896
01:02:24,220 --> 01:02:28,900
I think is absolutely true, and how they actually, you know,

897
01:02:28,900 --> 01:02:33,550
kind of a quiet part, out loud admission about this kind of

898
01:02:33,550 --> 01:02:37,330
stuff, and that basically, eventually people would not know

899
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:41,410
how to distinguish between what is real and what is fake, and

900
01:02:41,410 --> 01:02:46,330
that they argue too, that AI, once the singularity comes

901
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:50,260
essentially, that the AI hallucinations, where AI like

902
01:02:50,260 --> 01:02:55,000
returns a nonsensical response, are actually indications of

903
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,720
hidden realities that humans cannot perceive, and Therefore

904
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:04,750
we should trust these AI, you know, delusions as as hints of

905
01:03:04,750 --> 01:03:08,830
hidden realities, and that we should join hands with AI and

906
01:03:08,830 --> 01:03:13,900
journey into these new realities together. And basically,

907
01:03:14,350 --> 01:03:16,810
something that I think is interesting here in the context

908
01:03:16,810 --> 01:03:22,300
of of the Neo reactionary people, is this idea of AI in

909
01:03:22,300 --> 01:03:28,180
the role of religion, and how a lot of these people in the Peter

910
01:03:28,180 --> 01:03:32,980
Thiel network, the Thiel verse, have really been promoting sort

911
01:03:32,980 --> 01:03:39,520
of this new version of Christianity. And I would like

912
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,520
you to talk about your chapter in the book about that. But

913
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:47,380
first, I want to add that recently, Joe Rogan was on not

914
01:03:47,380 --> 01:03:51,670
his own podcast. It was another podcast, and he was promoting

915
01:03:51,670 --> 01:03:57,460
the idea that the second coming of Christ would be that Jesus

916
01:03:57,460 --> 01:04:02,440
would return as an AI, because a computer is a virgin mother, and

917
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,780
that we should, you know, essentially prepare ourselves

918
01:04:04,780 --> 01:04:10,750
for some sort of AI Messiah. And Peter thiel's recent speech, or

919
01:04:10,750 --> 01:04:15,370
group of speeches on the Antichrist, are about how the

920
01:04:15,370 --> 01:04:19,900
Antichrist, in his view, will try and regulate AI, will

921
01:04:19,900 --> 01:04:25,060
prevent innovation in AI, basically. So anyone that tries

922
01:04:25,060 --> 01:04:30,220
to regulate AI is bad to Peter Thiel, basically. But the last

923
01:04:30,250 --> 01:04:34,210
point I want to bring up in this, in this line of thinking,

924
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:37,210
you know, relevant data point is that Eric Schmidt and Henry

925
01:04:37,210 --> 01:04:41,560
Kissinger argue in their book that the advent of all this AI

926
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:45,340
technology will either bring up revolution against the elites,

927
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,660
or it will create a new religion. And just recently,

928
01:04:49,660 --> 01:04:53,650
Eric Schmidt said, I want it to be their religion. I mean,

929
01:04:53,650 --> 01:04:55,870
obviously, because they don't want the elite order of which

930
01:04:55,870 --> 01:04:59,890
they are a part to be dismantled. So it seems like we

931
01:04:59,890 --> 01:05:04,030
are. Sort of being set up for something quite unusual,

932
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:07,240
especially when you consider that these Neo reactionary

933
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:11,740
oligarchs are so powerful and they they have this quasi

934
01:05:11,740 --> 01:05:15,580
religious feeling about things like the singularity and

935
01:05:15,580 --> 01:05:20,140
transhumanism. So what are your thoughts about all these various

936
01:05:20,260 --> 01:05:21,790
related developments?

937
01:05:22,870 --> 01:05:26,617
Well, yeah, I mean, certainly. I mean, the Neo

938
01:05:26,699 --> 01:05:31,098
reactionaries want to decent, want to deterritorialize

939
01:05:31,180 --> 01:05:36,394
everything and re-territorialize it in their own image. And that

940
01:05:36,475 --> 01:05:41,119
includes Christianity, that includes, that includes faith

941
01:05:41,201 --> 01:05:45,763
and and what they and Thiel's version of Christianity is

942
01:05:45,845 --> 01:05:50,815
pretty bizarre, and, you know, and I'm certainly, no, I'm not

943
01:05:50,896 --> 01:05:55,214
religious myself, and I'm certainly in no position to

944
01:05:55,296 --> 01:06:00,103
question someone's faith. But, you know, I think it is fair

945
01:06:00,184 --> 01:06:04,991
that fair to say that there are some basic, basic tenets of

946
01:06:05,072 --> 01:06:09,798
Christian, Christianity that everybody recognizes, be they

947
01:06:09,879 --> 01:06:14,605
Christian or not, or be they religious or not, and that is

948
01:06:14,686 --> 01:06:19,412
compassion, love, kindness, these kind of the virtues that

949
01:06:19,493 --> 01:06:24,381
we would that we would consider to be Christian. I mean even

950
01:06:24,463 --> 01:06:28,944
that is even what the word means. To be Christian means

951
01:06:29,025 --> 01:06:33,588
that you know to to be a selfless, a selfless person who

952
01:06:33,669 --> 01:06:38,639
is compassionate and caring. Now, the version that that Thiel

953
01:06:38,721 --> 01:06:43,527
has argued for, he wrote quite an influential kind of essay

954
01:06:43,609 --> 01:06:48,416
called, I think it was called My Straussian Moment, or This

955
01:06:48,497 --> 01:06:53,141
Straussian Moment where he where he spoke a lot about the

956
01:06:53,223 --> 01:06:58,355
influence of, ironically, less about Strauss and more about the

957
01:06:58,437 --> 01:07:02,836
ideas put forward by a close - initially, a teacher, a

958
01:07:02,918 --> 01:07:07,562
professor of his and who became a friend of his, a French

959
01:07:07,643 --> 01:07:12,043
theological thinker and philosopher, a guy called Rene

960
01:07:12,124 --> 01:07:17,094
Girard, who spoke about this notion of one of the things that

961
01:07:17,176 --> 01:07:22,308
is destroying the world is what he called mimesis, which is our

962
01:07:22,390 --> 01:07:27,360
which is our kind of desire to emulate, to emulate others and

963
01:07:27,441 --> 01:07:32,574
and therefore this boils down to Thiel concluding that that the

964
01:07:32,655 --> 01:07:37,055
there are really only two commandments that are of any

965
01:07:37,136 --> 01:07:41,943
value or not any value, but there Are two commandments that

966
01:07:42,025 --> 01:07:47,158
are far more important than any of the others, and that include

967
01:07:47,239 --> 01:07:52,372
and the two are that you should worship God and that you should

968
01:07:52,453 --> 01:07:57,260
not covet so so the others, which are pretty important, you

969
01:07:57,342 --> 01:08:01,660
know, I would have thought to both Christians and non

970
01:08:01,741 --> 01:08:06,385
Christians alike, can be dispensed with as we as they try

971
01:08:06,467 --> 01:08:11,599
to find what he called a third way between Armageddon, which he

972
01:08:11,681 --> 01:08:15,999
considers to be the global global governance, and the

973
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:21,295
apocalypse, which is mimesis, US pursuing kind of consumerism to

974
01:08:21,376 --> 01:08:26,102
the point where we destroy ourselves so and he argues that

975
01:08:26,183 --> 01:08:31,397
our pursuit of mimic our mimetic desires, are the thing that are

976
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:36,286
driving us into the arms of the Antichrist, which he called

977
01:08:36,367 --> 01:08:41,174
Armageddon, the coming of the Antichrist. He said that that

978
01:08:41,255 --> 01:08:45,736
that was encapsulated in the concept of Armageddon. And

979
01:08:45,818 --> 01:08:50,462
therefore, and that's global governance. And therefore we

980
01:08:50,543 --> 01:08:55,432
need not, we don't need the wrong kind of global governance.

981
01:08:55,513 --> 01:09:00,565
We need the right, we need the right kind of global governance

982
01:09:00,646 --> 01:09:05,697
because we have to deal with the apocalypse, which is our, you

983
01:09:05,779 --> 01:09:10,749
know, currently, our ability to have a reasonable standard of

984
01:09:10,830 --> 01:09:15,800
living through kind of economic activity which is driving the

985
01:09:15,881 --> 01:09:20,933
world to destruction. He says, Therefore, it is only right and

986
01:09:21,014 --> 01:09:25,821
proper in order for us to avoid the tyranny of true hellish

987
01:09:25,903 --> 01:09:30,954
global governance is the global governance needs to be managed

988
01:09:31,035 --> 01:09:36,005
more appropriately, and that could best be done by innovators

989
01:09:36,087 --> 01:09:41,138
and technological leaders are the people that are in the right

990
01:09:41,219 --> 01:09:46,352
place at the right time to make the right decisions, namely him

991
01:09:46,434 --> 01:09:50,915
and his network of Neo reactionary oligarch friends. So

992
01:09:50,996 --> 01:09:55,070
that's that's pretty much you. His kind of view on

993
01:09:55,151 --> 01:10:00,284
Christianity. He also, he also, he also has argued that because

994
01:10:00,365 --> 01:10:05,417
we are in inherently violent, and I explore this in some depth

995
01:10:05,498 --> 01:10:09,735
in the book, this is all around gerard's notion of a

996
01:10:09,816 --> 01:10:14,949
foundational murder, but without getting into the deep weeds of

997
01:10:15,031 --> 01:10:19,919
it, because, we are inherently violent, which God isn't? God

998
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:25,296
isn't inherently violent, but we are. There needs to be some kind

999
01:10:25,378 --> 01:10:29,859
of management of our violence. Our violence needs to be

1000
01:10:29,940 --> 01:10:34,584
appropriately stewarded to ensure that we don't fall into

1001
01:10:34,665 --> 01:10:39,635
the trap of the Armageddon that we don't allow Satan to rule,

1002
01:10:39,717 --> 01:10:44,524
which is what he called global governance. So therefore the

1003
01:10:44,605 --> 01:10:49,575
responsible position is to get the balance right between just

1004
01:10:49,656 --> 01:10:54,626
the right level of killing and and and if you get that right,

1005
01:10:54,708 --> 01:10:59,433
if you just kill the right people, then that's, that's the

1006
01:10:59,515 --> 01:11:04,566
Christian thing to do, because then you're, then you're saving

1007
01:11:04,647 --> 01:11:09,862
humanity from itself. And I know this sounds utterly insane, and

1008
01:11:09,943 --> 01:11:14,831
it is, but that is basically his view on, you know that stem

1009
01:11:14,913 --> 01:11:19,638
stems from his reading of girardian mimetic desire and and

1010
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:24,445
I, one of the points that I point out, and another point I

1011
01:11:24,527 --> 01:11:29,252
make in that particular chapter is, is, even if you're not

1012
01:11:29,334 --> 01:11:33,896
religious, you know it is, it is legitimate, I think, to

1013
01:11:33,978 --> 01:11:38,784
criticize hypocrisy. Now that to me to claim that you are a

1014
01:11:38,866 --> 01:11:43,673
Christian and then a shoe all Christian values that anybody

1015
01:11:43,754 --> 01:11:47,584
else could ever possibly recognize, I think, is

1016
01:11:47,665 --> 01:11:52,635
hypocritical. So so even though I have strayed into religion,

1017
01:11:52,716 --> 01:11:57,768
and I'm not a religious person myself, and even though I'm not

1018
01:11:57,849 --> 01:12:02,574
questioning his you know, he probably does think that he's

1019
01:12:02,656 --> 01:12:07,789
got Christian values, and it's not my place to question that. I

1020
01:12:07,870 --> 01:12:12,351
think I it is legitimate to question what appears to be

1021
01:12:12,433 --> 01:12:14,470
pretty obvious hypocrisy.

1022
01:12:15,250 --> 01:12:17,500
Yeah, I think it's definitely that, but I think it

1023
01:12:17,500 --> 01:12:22,450
also perhaps goes a bit further. I think at least the way things

1024
01:12:22,450 --> 01:12:25,810
are shaping up, it seems very likely to me that there's going

1025
01:12:25,810 --> 01:12:29,980
to be some sort of element that is religious in nature, or at

1026
01:12:29,980 --> 01:12:33,910
least pretends to be religious in nature, that is used as part

1027
01:12:33,910 --> 01:12:38,770
of this broader sales pitch, as I've been calling it in this

1028
01:12:38,770 --> 01:12:45,250
episode, to sort of justify the imposition of this patchwork of

1029
01:12:45,250 --> 01:12:54,190
realms, as we've been discussing this network state type of style

1030
01:12:54,190 --> 01:12:57,520
society, that is, you know, essentially what your book is

1031
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:01,720
about, the technocratic dark state on a global scale. I think

1032
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:05,500
it seems like there is an effort to develop some, some sort of

1033
01:13:05,500 --> 01:13:10,450
religious underpinning for, not necessarily, necessarily for

1034
01:13:10,450 --> 01:13:16,150
that itself, but for, you know, things like AI and some of the

1035
01:13:16,150 --> 01:13:19,450
technologies that will be fundamental to the functioning

1036
01:13:20,620 --> 01:13:22,990
of those states, yeah.

1037
01:13:22,990 --> 01:13:25,600
I mean, I think, I think, yeah, certainly, right. I mean,

1038
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:28,870
there's a, there's a movement that is backed by the kind of

1039
01:13:28,870 --> 01:13:32,770
Neo, reactionary, kind of oligarchs in the US, called

1040
01:13:32,770 --> 01:13:37,840
Acts, Acts 17. There are who are, who are going around, kind

1041
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:41,920
of trying to get the, get the, their version of the Christian

1042
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:47,170
message out to, you know, the kind of Silicon Valley movers

1043
01:13:47,170 --> 01:13:50,800
and shakers and the business community. So they're definitely

1044
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:54,550
trying to get people on board with this notion that, I mean, I

1045
01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:59,950
Trey Stevens, who is kind of, I forget that is it Andrew that

1046
01:13:59,950 --> 01:14:01,720
he's heavily invested in. I think it's,

1047
01:14:01,930 --> 01:14:05,290
yeah, Trey Stevens was a co founder of Andrew and he was

1048
01:14:05,290 --> 01:14:10,690
previously he's at Founders Fund, which is the Thiel VC

1049
01:14:10,690 --> 01:14:14,770
firm. He is on the board of card by 911 the company that Founders

1050
01:14:14,770 --> 01:14:18,550
Fund and Thiel colluded to invest in, along with Jeffrey

1051
01:14:18,550 --> 01:14:21,520
Epstein, that's the Israeli surveillance company taking over

1052
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:25,720
911 call centers, or emergency call centers in the US. And I

1053
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:29,230
believe before that was a Palantir, and before that worked

1054
01:14:29,230 --> 01:14:32,920
for a three letter agency, which he will not say what it was, but

1055
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:36,160
usually when it's they admit it's a three letter agency, and

1056
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:38,710
they won't tell you what the agency was. It's almost always

1057
01:14:38,710 --> 01:14:43,060
the CIA, because it's the most infamous one. So, yes, that

1058
01:14:43,060 --> 01:14:46,990
seems to be the Trey Stevens history as as I recall,

1059
01:14:47,830 --> 01:14:50,770
yeah, so Trey Stevens is kind of a formative member of

1060
01:14:50,770 --> 01:14:53,800
Acts 17. This, this, this Christian, Christian.

1061
01:14:54,370 --> 01:14:58,030
Yeah, I believe he and his wife created it together, if I'm

1062
01:14:58,030 --> 01:14:58,690
not speaking,

1063
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:02,800
yeah, and. So his his argument is that venture

1064
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:06,280
capitalism creates value, and that's all that matters, because

1065
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:10,300
it creates value. So you're contributing something to you

1066
01:15:10,300 --> 01:15:15,220
know, obviously, if you thought that the idea of trickle down

1067
01:15:15,220 --> 01:15:19,090
economics was plausible, you are, you are creating value, and

1068
01:15:19,090 --> 01:15:23,290
that is essentially good. That is a Christian thing to do. And

1069
01:15:23,290 --> 01:15:26,260
so that's the so venture capitalism is good. It is

1070
01:15:26,260 --> 01:15:30,730
Christian. You know, it doesn't matter that the thing that

1071
01:15:30,730 --> 01:15:35,470
you're invested in is drone strikes on, you know, the

1072
01:15:35,470 --> 01:15:39,070
technical, the technological ability to kill people at a

1073
01:15:39,070 --> 01:15:44,350
distance using AI directed weaponry. That doesn't matter.

1074
01:15:45,130 --> 01:15:48,940
It because, not only doesn't that matter from this Christian

1075
01:15:48,940 --> 01:15:52,870
perspective, because, you know, some kind of level of management

1076
01:15:52,870 --> 01:15:58,060
of murder is required, it doesn't matter because you're

1077
01:15:58,060 --> 01:16:01,360
creating value. So as long as you're creating value. I mean,

1078
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,670
what we're talking about is shareholder value. Obviously,

1079
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:07,270
what you're doing is creating value, and that is the Christian

1080
01:16:07,270 --> 01:16:13,150
thing to do. Now, that is just, I can't so I mean, in a way,

1081
01:16:13,150 --> 01:16:16,840
this is, this is epitomizes what we've been talking about during

1082
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:24,190
this during this conversation. It is so far removed from, you

1083
01:16:24,190 --> 01:16:27,370
know, and then this, you can say the same about the dark

1084
01:16:27,370 --> 01:16:29,740
enlightenment. And even you know, you could say the same

1085
01:16:29,740 --> 01:16:34,660
about technocracy. It is so far removed from our normal

1086
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:42,190
appreciation of concepts that we thought we were, we were

1087
01:16:42,190 --> 01:16:48,010
familiar with that. We have to kind of rethink what these

1088
01:16:48,010 --> 01:16:51,820
people are talking about, because it's it's not, it's not

1089
01:16:51,820 --> 01:16:55,750
something that most of us would easily recognize, and they even

1090
01:16:55,750 --> 01:17:00,070
to the extent that it's that they, they use and have created

1091
01:17:00,100 --> 01:17:05,110
all kinds of new a new language, almost, you know, there's so

1092
01:17:05,110 --> 01:17:09,190
many, so much jargon that they use, and so many concepts that

1093
01:17:09,190 --> 01:17:12,550
hidden within other concepts. It's like an onion just peeling

1094
01:17:12,550 --> 01:17:16,750
back layers all the time that they're creating a language that

1095
01:17:16,750 --> 01:17:21,310
only they they can share. And when they talk about things like

1096
01:17:21,310 --> 01:17:26,590
Christianity. It is not what what most of us would perceive

1097
01:17:26,620 --> 01:17:27,730
as Christianity.

1098
01:17:28,630 --> 01:17:34,270
Think the goal is just to use the hijack, basically the

1099
01:17:34,270 --> 01:17:37,420
concept of what regular people have of Christianity,

1100
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:40,870
particularly of practicing Christians, and then use that to

1101
01:17:40,870 --> 01:17:44,470
herd them into something else entirely. Basically, I mean,

1102
01:17:44,470 --> 01:17:49,690
that's what it seems like to me, but I want to pick up on what

1103
01:17:49,690 --> 01:17:55,690
you brought up about how Acts 17 in particular highlights and

1104
01:17:55,690 --> 01:17:58,930
makes essentially the primal point of Christianity being

1105
01:17:58,930 --> 01:18:04,750
about generating value, or shareholder value, it behooves

1106
01:18:04,750 --> 01:18:10,150
us, then to discuss how value will be generated in this new

1107
01:18:10,150 --> 01:18:13,540
system that they are proposing and which is quickly taking

1108
01:18:13,540 --> 01:18:17,020
shape, bringing us, of course, to the section of your book that

1109
01:18:17,020 --> 01:18:22,090
deals significantly with financial matters. And I

1110
01:18:22,090 --> 01:18:28,120
recently, I recently did a video for Solari report with my

1111
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:32,260
colleague Mark Goodwin about the tokenization agenda in

1112
01:18:32,260 --> 01:18:37,420
particular, and how the role that will play in generating

1113
01:18:37,420 --> 01:18:44,590
value in the future to come and what it portends. So I'm not

1114
01:18:44,590 --> 01:18:48,700
sure where you'd like to start in that we have about 10 to 15

1115
01:18:48,700 --> 01:18:52,180
minutes to sort of get into that. Obviously, it's something

1116
01:18:52,180 --> 01:18:57,280
we could talk about for an entire podcast. Yeah.

1117
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:00,490
I mean, essentially, I mean, if you think you know, again,

1118
01:19:00,490 --> 01:19:03,160
looking at the network state, which is it? Which is, which is

1119
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:07,660
an expression of this, if this kind of Neo reactionary thinking

1120
01:19:08,230 --> 01:19:11,410
an attempt to make it a practical kind of model of it.

1121
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:17,290
Balaji Sri lifts and says, All value goes digital, all value.

1122
01:19:17,350 --> 01:19:22,450
So what he means is everything. He means, all your assets would

1123
01:19:22,450 --> 01:19:28,180
be on the sovereign corporations unified ledger, the which almost

1124
01:19:28,180 --> 01:19:31,090
certainly would be a blockchain, or certainly some sort of

1125
01:19:31,090 --> 01:19:36,310
distributed ledger, technology ledger, all your rights, all

1126
01:19:36,310 --> 01:19:42,370
your contracts, all your all your assets, as in as in your

1127
01:19:42,370 --> 01:19:45,730
personal assets. So your your digital self, your

1128
01:19:45,730 --> 01:19:48,850
representation, at representation of yourself on

1129
01:19:48,850 --> 01:19:53,800
the ledger, a tokenized version of you will be on the ledger. So

1130
01:19:53,830 --> 01:19:59,740
all value goes digital, goes digital, and there is no value

1131
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:04,060
up. Other than that which is expressed digitally. So unless

1132
01:20:04,060 --> 01:20:08,020
it is, unless it is represented in a tokenized form on the

1133
01:20:08,020 --> 01:20:13,030
unified ledger, he says it doesn't exist. It doesn't exist.

1134
01:20:13,330 --> 01:20:19,330
So everything that does exist has to be represented in a

1135
01:20:19,330 --> 01:20:20,350
tokenized form.

1136
01:20:20,830 --> 01:20:24,460
I'm taking this back to the Trey Stevens thing, then you are

1137
01:20:24,460 --> 01:20:28,480
a good Christian if you generate value. But also that value only

1138
01:20:28,480 --> 01:20:32,260
exists in the digital realm that you'll only be able to access if

1139
01:20:32,260 --> 01:20:37,450
you have digital ID, yes, and use digital programmable money

1140
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:42,700
to you know, as part of generating that value, it's,

1141
01:20:43,510 --> 01:20:47,590
it's, it's speechless again, here I am speechless.

1142
01:20:48,190 --> 01:20:50,860
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think so, if we look at this in

1143
01:20:50,860 --> 01:20:54,100
kind of what, what we might consider to be traditional

1144
01:20:54,100 --> 01:20:58,570
monetary terms and economic terms, clearly there is a

1145
01:20:58,570 --> 01:21:01,870
problem with the international monetary and financial system,

1146
01:21:01,990 --> 01:21:06,760
and that is the debt it I mean, even if, even if you think that

1147
01:21:06,790 --> 01:21:12,370
what we are told about economic the monetary system is genuine,

1148
01:21:12,370 --> 01:21:15,370
and there's a and I explore some of the reasons why even that is

1149
01:21:15,370 --> 01:21:20,800
questionable in the book, but if You assume things like GDP and

1150
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:26,710
so forth are plausible, then there's obviously a massive

1151
01:21:26,710 --> 01:21:31,570
problem, something the current Canadian Prime Minister Mark

1152
01:21:31,570 --> 01:21:34,690
Carney called the destabilizing asymmetry at the heart of the

1153
01:21:34,690 --> 01:21:38,650
monetary system, and that's the debt, because it just looks

1154
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:43,300
silly. I mean, the notion that, you know, GDP is probably, you

1155
01:21:43,300 --> 01:21:48,070
know, let's average it out 100 trillion per year. And the

1156
01:21:48,070 --> 01:21:53,920
global debt is acknowledged, debt is 320 trillion. And then

1157
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:57,100
you add in things like the derivatives market, the nominal,

1158
01:21:57,130 --> 01:22:01,000
the nominal value of the derivatives market, which you

1159
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,310
know you could argue is plausibly around one

1160
01:22:03,310 --> 01:22:10,120
quadrillion, then you're talking about a global debt that is 10

1161
01:22:10,150 --> 01:22:15,190
times, at least more than the size of the entire global

1162
01:22:15,190 --> 01:22:19,690
economy. Now obviously that is just on its face. That is a

1163
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:23,290
ridiculous proposition. There isn't that much money on Earth.

1164
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:28,900
If, if, if the money paradigm meant anything, if the monetary

1165
01:22:28,900 --> 01:22:32,980
system means anything, then, on its face, that is an absurd

1166
01:22:32,980 --> 01:22:40,120
proposition. Now, now that's a problem. If you're if your main

1167
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:45,490
tool of control, which it has been for a long time, is your

1168
01:22:45,580 --> 01:22:49,720
endless expansion of the money supply. Because your endless

1169
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:54,670
expansion of the money supply is creating the thing that is

1170
01:22:54,700 --> 01:22:58,270
ultimately the destabilizing asymmetry at the heart of your

1171
01:22:58,270 --> 01:23:04,270
system. So it has to end at some point. It is not. It is not

1172
01:23:04,300 --> 01:23:09,730
plausible. Now I I argue that it that, that the writing was on

1173
01:23:09,730 --> 01:23:14,530
the wall for that, and we saw that in the 2008 financial crash

1174
01:23:15,070 --> 01:23:18,820
at that point onwards, the notion of maintaining the

1175
01:23:18,820 --> 01:23:23,020
monetary system in its current in it, the fiat currency

1176
01:23:23,020 --> 01:23:26,500
monetary system was, it was a dead duck from that point

1177
01:23:26,500 --> 01:23:30,430
onwards. And we say that brings us forward to 2025 where they

1178
01:23:30,430 --> 01:23:36,010
are now in a position to put the fix in. So the the initial fix

1179
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:39,970
for the short term problem, I argue, and I know people have

1180
01:23:39,970 --> 01:23:41,710
got a different view in it. Of course, there's nothing wrong

1181
01:23:41,710 --> 01:23:46,930
with that, but the short term fix it from the US perspective.

1182
01:23:46,930 --> 01:23:53,500
So let's, let's say that the the the $38 trillion debt or more

1183
01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:55,510
now, because I probably only looked at it a couple of weeks

1184
01:23:55,510 --> 01:24:01,090
ago, so it's probably a lot more than that. Now it's the stable

1185
01:24:01,090 --> 01:24:04,060
coins are an outlet to absorb that debt. They're backed by

1186
01:24:04,060 --> 01:24:08,470
Treasuries and other dollar backed instruments. So it's,

1187
01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:12,520
it's, they're a vehicle to absorb some of that debt. Now,

1188
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:16,270
the projections for the global stable coin market, which were

1189
01:24:16,270 --> 01:24:21,820
enabled by the genius act, they that the kind of projection for

1190
01:24:21,820 --> 01:24:25,960
that, I think by 2030 is about 4 trillion. So that's 4 trillion

1191
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:30,550
of US debt that can be that can be absorbed in the short term,

1192
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:35,980
but that doesn't eat much into the current $38 trillion debt,

1193
01:24:36,850 --> 01:24:40,600
because that's projected to be something like 55 trillion by

1194
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:45,100
2035, so there's still, you still got this debilizing

1195
01:24:45,130 --> 01:24:50,830
asymmetry problem. But if, but if, as has been now firmly

1196
01:24:50,830 --> 01:24:53,380
established, the Bank for International Settlements says

1197
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:57,520
that tokenization that the reason that they want to put

1198
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:01,600
everything onto a unified ledger. Which is what Sri nifsan

1199
01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:06,100
is talking about in the network state, is because that maximizes

1200
01:25:06,100 --> 01:25:09,940
the potential for tokenization. You can put everything onto this

1201
01:25:09,940 --> 01:25:14,200
digital all value goes digital. And when they mean all, they

1202
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:17,080
mean all, like, yeah,

1203
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:21,326
they do. And I don't think a lot of people grasp what that

1204
01:25:21,398 --> 01:25:25,995
means. And so, you know, in the video I did with Mark, I brought

1205
01:25:26,067 --> 01:25:30,305
up a company that he and I wrote about, I guess, last year,

1206
01:25:30,377 --> 01:25:34,974
called O.N.E. Amazon, which was a company created by the creator

1207
01:25:35,046 --> 01:25:39,140
of the ETF at Barclays, and then later became a Blackrock

1208
01:25:39,212 --> 01:25:43,379
executive who's now based in Dubai, creating the UAE CBDC,

1209
01:25:43,450 --> 01:25:47,689
among other claims to fame. And his other co founder is the

1210
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:52,070
former board member of the Trump Media and Technology Group,

1211
01:25:52,142 --> 01:25:56,740
which is the truth social parent company. And together, they are

1212
01:25:56,811 --> 01:26:00,834
working to tokenize the entire Amazon rainforest for the

1213
01:26:00,906 --> 01:26:05,360
purpose of turning the Amazon rainforest into basically a debt

1214
01:26:05,431 --> 01:26:09,957
sink, in the same way that, like Bitcoin, is being treated as a

1215
01:26:10,029 --> 01:26:14,339
politically neutral reserve asset for as in, to be used as a

1216
01:26:14,411 --> 01:26:18,721
debt sink. Basically, they want to do the turn of the forest

1217
01:26:18,792 --> 01:26:23,246
because it's a finite size into a debt sink, just like Bitcoin

1218
01:26:23,318 --> 01:26:27,915
is also of you know, has finite issuance. After a certain point,

1219
01:26:27,987 --> 01:26:32,513
there's only going to be so many units of Bitcoin. So it has an

1220
01:26:32,584 --> 01:26:36,823
inherent degree of scarcity. So too does the natural world,

1221
01:26:36,894 --> 01:26:40,342
because you can't make more Earth, right? And so

1222
01:26:40,414 --> 01:26:44,868
essentially, this is a microcosm of what they hope to do. They

1223
01:26:44,940 --> 01:26:49,178
want to put every single you know, acre or hectare you know

1224
01:26:49,250 --> 01:26:53,272
of the Amazon rainforest on chain tokenized so that it's

1225
01:26:53,344 --> 01:26:57,798
tradable. As you know this, this scarce digital asset based on

1226
01:26:57,870 --> 01:27:02,180
something real or a real world asset, right? So a lot of the

1227
01:27:02,252 --> 01:27:06,777
tokenization buzz these days is about real world assets, right?

1228
01:27:06,849 --> 01:27:11,446
And what people don't realize is that it's not just, oh, they're

1229
01:27:11,518 --> 01:27:16,044
going to put a representation of it on chain in order to do so,

1230
01:27:16,115 --> 01:27:20,569
that asset must be under 24 hour invasive surveillance so that

1231
01:27:20,641 --> 01:27:25,166
you can prove that it represents what you say it represents. So

1232
01:27:25,238 --> 01:27:29,835
in order to do that, one, Amazon has partnered with this company

1233
01:27:29,907 --> 01:27:34,145
called SATA logic, tied to people like Howard lutnik, who's

1234
01:27:34,217 --> 01:27:38,671
running commerce for Trump, and also recently heavily invested

1235
01:27:38,743 --> 01:27:42,837
in by the US stable coin tether to create the internet of

1236
01:27:42,909 --> 01:27:47,363
forests, just like the internet of bodies. But it's, you know,

1237
01:27:47,435 --> 01:27:51,816
for the trees and the Amazon rain forest. And presumably they

1238
01:27:51,888 --> 01:27:56,414
will do this to every forest and every living thing, because if

1239
01:27:56,486 --> 01:28:00,293
you're trading it on chain, it must be under constant

1240
01:28:00,365 --> 01:28:04,172
surveillance, and that's something that I don't think

1241
01:28:04,244 --> 01:28:08,051
people have really grappled with. So what is it? What

1242
01:28:08,123 --> 01:28:12,504
happens then, when you know it's not just trees and little in

1243
01:28:12,576 --> 01:28:16,814
hectares or acres of forests that are being tokenized? What

1244
01:28:16,886 --> 01:28:20,693
if biodiversity data is something that's being traded

1245
01:28:20,765 --> 01:28:25,219
and tokenized, the animals and organisms would also have to be

1246
01:28:25,291 --> 01:28:29,888
tagged and tripped right? And so I think you can see that pretty

1247
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:34,485
quickly this gets out of hand in terms of the mass surveillance

1248
01:28:34,557 --> 01:28:39,011
paradigm, and what happens when people are digitally as in the

1249
01:28:39,083 --> 01:28:43,465
network state only existing if they're existing and tokenized

1250
01:28:43,536 --> 01:28:47,918
versions on chain. Wire is, is also why all of this going on,

1251
01:28:47,990 --> 01:28:52,085
this simultaneous push into wearables and microchips and,

1252
01:28:52,156 --> 01:28:56,107
you know, transhumanist technology being sold as quote,

1253
01:28:56,179 --> 01:29:00,776
unquote healthcare, because that data is is also a value. And if

1254
01:29:00,848 --> 01:29:04,871
we're looking at this, you know, Acts 17, quote, unquote

1255
01:29:04,943 --> 01:29:09,325
Christian, we need to maximize value, because then we're like

1256
01:29:09,396 --> 01:29:13,706
better Christians or whatever. But, I mean, that's what they

1257
01:29:13,778 --> 01:29:18,160
want anyway. Regards, of the trace Stevens thing, you're only

1258
01:29:18,232 --> 01:29:22,542
a good customer, right of the GOV Corp, if you're maximizing

1259
01:29:22,614 --> 01:29:26,924
value for said gov Corp, and it's ruling techno King, right?

1260
01:29:26,996 --> 01:29:31,593
So the best way for you to be a good customer is to maximize the

1261
01:29:31,665 --> 01:29:36,118
amount of data that you produce that can then be tokenized and

1262
01:29:36,190 --> 01:29:37,340
traded on chain.

1263
01:29:37,990 --> 01:29:42,310
Yeah, exactly that. And, I mean, and you know, again, going

1264
01:29:42,310 --> 01:29:45,190
back to where we started at the beginning of this, about the

1265
01:29:45,190 --> 01:29:50,650
kind of, the deceptive element of that as well, is that much of

1266
01:29:50,650 --> 01:29:55,960
that value for, certainly for natural assets, that value comes

1267
01:29:55,960 --> 01:30:00,430
from, from them being what they call ecosystem service. Which

1268
01:30:00,430 --> 01:30:03,850
is, which really all that is, is the mechanism for putting a

1269
01:30:03,850 --> 01:30:06,490
price on what on what they're worth.

1270
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:12,520
That's how we get, like the medieval air tax, yeah, things

1271
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:16,690
like that. Yeah, yeah. It's libertarians bringing it to us,

1272
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:17,500
right? But that

1273
01:30:17,500 --> 01:30:21,647
comes directly from, that comes directly from the very

1274
01:30:21,724 --> 01:30:25,717
foundational basis of sustainable development agenda

1275
01:30:25,794 --> 01:30:30,172
21 so agenda 21 is where they first started talking about

1276
01:30:30,249 --> 01:30:35,164
ecosystem services. And 30, best part of 35 years later, that is

1277
01:30:35,241 --> 01:30:40,080
being translated by people who say they are opposed to all such

1278
01:30:40,156 --> 01:30:44,688
things. It's being translated into tokenized assets. So, so

1279
01:30:44,765 --> 01:30:49,296
you know, the lineage is quite clear, that you can see that

1280
01:30:49,373 --> 01:30:53,597
there is no there is no opposition to the what a lot of

1281
01:30:53,674 --> 01:30:58,359
people are concerned about in terms of what we might call the

1282
01:30:58,436 --> 01:31:03,274
globalist agenda. This is about accelerating that agenda in the

1283
01:31:03,351 --> 01:31:08,036
in the genuine sense of using accelerationism, which is a big

1284
01:31:08,113 --> 01:31:12,414
part of Neo reactionary thinking, which means to destroy

1285
01:31:12,491 --> 01:31:16,561
old markets and create new ones through technological

1286
01:31:16,638 --> 01:31:20,478
innovation, such as tokenization. So the thing is,

1287
01:31:20,555 --> 01:31:25,163
they say these things and these concepts, like acceleration,

1288
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:29,925
like accelerationism, which is what I've you know, just, just

1289
01:31:30,002 --> 01:31:34,840
described there. But the point that I try to stress in the book

1290
01:31:34,917 --> 01:31:39,909
that this is not empty rhetoric. They're doing it. They are doing

1291
01:31:39,986 --> 01:31:44,057
it. The tokenization of the Amazon rainforest being a

1292
01:31:44,133 --> 01:31:48,204
classic example, you know, the only, the only kind of

1293
01:31:48,281 --> 01:31:52,966
commercial value from a kind of, you know, maybe from a large

1294
01:31:53,043 --> 01:31:58,035
scale commercial value that that hitherto had was probably lumber

1295
01:31:58,112 --> 01:32:02,643
or clearing it for clearing it for Sawyer or something like

1296
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:06,867
that, not anymore through through accelerationism, the

1297
01:32:06,944 --> 01:32:11,475
application of technology, in this case, digital technology

1298
01:32:11,552 --> 01:32:16,314
and tokenization, you destroy The value of that market and put

1299
01:32:16,391 --> 01:32:20,999
and create a new one, in this case, ecosystem services, that

1300
01:32:21,076 --> 01:32:25,070
that is the essence of acceleration ism, and that is

1301
01:32:25,146 --> 01:32:29,678
exactly what they are doing. They're doing it so, you know,

1302
01:32:29,755 --> 01:32:34,516
it's pointless. People, I think, saying, you know, this is all

1303
01:32:34,593 --> 01:32:39,125
kind of theoretical. This is theoretical kind of musing. It

1304
01:32:39,201 --> 01:32:44,117
isn't that they are putting and that goes back to the thing that

1305
01:32:44,194 --> 01:32:48,648
I was saying about the dark enlightenment, and people like

1306
01:32:48,725 --> 01:32:53,487
Yarvin, their ideas are off the charts wacky. But that doesn't

1307
01:32:53,564 --> 01:32:57,788
mean that there aren't people like Thiel, Musk, Lutnik,

1308
01:32:57,865 --> 01:33:02,780
Ellison, these people, they are putting them into practice. They

1309
01:33:02,857 --> 01:33:07,465
are, they are implementing them right now. And, you know, we

1310
01:33:07,542 --> 01:33:11,920
need to know about that, and that's why I wrote the book.

1311
01:33:12,670 --> 01:33:16,390
Yeah, absolutely. And it's not just that they're making

1312
01:33:16,390 --> 01:33:20,980
this infrastructure. They're also lording over a coming

1313
01:33:21,310 --> 01:33:26,980
economic crisis that will inevitably force us onto these

1314
01:33:26,980 --> 01:33:30,730
new systems if you want to try and preserve your wealth or have

1315
01:33:30,730 --> 01:33:36,520
any sort of you know, or participate in what you're you

1316
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:39,610
know society as it exists now. I mean, they're definitely, I

1317
01:33:39,610 --> 01:33:45,520
think it's pretty clear trying to set us up for a series of

1318
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:51,850
events whereby they will hurt us into their global, technocratic

1319
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:55,720
dark state, if you will. Well, it's certainly dark to talk

1320
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:58,210
about the technocratic dark state, but there are plenty of

1321
01:33:58,210 --> 01:34:02,260
things we can do to resist what's coming and prevent it

1322
01:34:02,260 --> 01:34:07,210
from being implemented. And I think it's should be quite clear

1323
01:34:07,210 --> 01:34:11,620
to people that the most important thing to do as soon as

1324
01:34:11,620 --> 01:34:16,450
possible is to educate people about what is, what they are

1325
01:34:16,450 --> 01:34:19,210
attempting to do, who these people really are in the power

1326
01:34:19,210 --> 01:34:22,660
they wield because they wouldn't have been investing so much

1327
01:34:22,660 --> 01:34:28,600
money and time to try and convince us and sell certain

1328
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:32,170
segments of the population this vision through such deceptive

1329
01:34:32,170 --> 01:34:36,490
means, if they didn't need our consent, at least to some

1330
01:34:36,490 --> 01:34:40,990
degree. So I think it's a good time to talk about solutions,

1331
01:34:40,990 --> 01:34:47,470
Iain, if you would like to give us sort of your view on things

1332
01:34:47,470 --> 01:34:51,490
that we can do to resist the technocratic dark state sooner

1333
01:34:51,520 --> 01:34:52,480
rather than later.

1334
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:56,290
Yeah, I think the most, most pressing thing is that we should

1335
01:34:56,290 --> 01:35:01,000
not comply. And that's not that doesn't that's not. A trite

1336
01:35:01,150 --> 01:35:05,560
thing. We really need to be aware of what we need to do not

1337
01:35:05,590 --> 01:35:10,000
to comply. Because unless we unless we are aware of how not

1338
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:13,330
to comply, we've got no chance of doing it. I would encourage

1339
01:35:13,330 --> 01:35:16,720
everybody to consider that everything they are doing,

1340
01:35:17,320 --> 01:35:22,690
pretty much is about controlling us. So the question would be,

1341
01:35:22,690 --> 01:35:27,040
why? And the question and the answer to that is staring us in

1342
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:33,760
the face. We are the people who can scupper their plans. So we

1343
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:37,900
need to realize that we have agency in this, and the most,

1344
01:35:37,900 --> 01:35:42,760
probably the most powerful thing vote that we have is our

1345
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:48,370
wallets, if we if we are conscious about how to resist

1346
01:35:48,370 --> 01:35:52,390
this and how we spend our money, where we spend our money, who

1347
01:35:52,390 --> 01:35:56,350
with if we refuse to adopt things like digital ID, which

1348
01:35:56,350 --> 01:36:00,070
isn't going to be easy, because, as something that I have pointed

1349
01:36:00,070 --> 01:36:03,040
out is that, you know, this infrastructure is already around

1350
01:36:03,040 --> 01:36:08,530
us. We are already using aspects of it, such as driving licenses

1351
01:36:08,530 --> 01:36:12,730
and bank cards and those kind of things. So, so what? But what we

1352
01:36:12,730 --> 01:36:17,350
can, what we can do from this point onwards, is minimize our

1353
01:36:17,350 --> 01:36:22,210
use of these control systems, but we but in order to be able

1354
01:36:22,210 --> 01:36:25,660
to do that, we need to know what they are. And that, again, is a

1355
01:36:25,660 --> 01:36:30,400
point. Is a point of the book, and we can do things like it,

1356
01:36:30,430 --> 01:36:34,360
you know, it is said ad nauseum, but it is true nonetheless. So

1357
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:38,410
very simple things like getting rid of your smartphone. You

1358
01:36:38,410 --> 01:36:41,140
know, I know that for some people, that would be just like

1359
01:36:41,170 --> 01:36:46,840
unthinkable. But that is a very simple thing we can do to retard

1360
01:36:46,870 --> 01:36:52,240
the rollout of this system, using cash, you know, not, not

1361
01:36:52,240 --> 01:36:56,800
using things like your bank card unless you absolutely have no

1362
01:36:56,800 --> 01:37:01,810
alternative. You know, not using things like store loyalty cards,

1363
01:37:02,440 --> 01:37:07,300
being aware of how our data is gathered, who is gathering it,

1364
01:37:07,300 --> 01:37:11,260
and the mechanisms they're using to gather it. And they're not

1365
01:37:11,290 --> 01:37:16,840
not agreeing to go along with that. When they say, you know, I

1366
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:21,370
mean, it's things like, if you have to hand over your data for

1367
01:37:21,370 --> 01:37:26,200
anything like your personal data for anything then, then, even if

1368
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:29,830
that service is offered to you freely, it is not free. Nothing

1369
01:37:29,830 --> 01:37:34,720
is free. So, so you know, we just need to be aware of the

1370
01:37:34,750 --> 01:37:38,290
steps that we can do. And ultimately, what we need to do

1371
01:37:38,740 --> 01:37:42,880
is ensure that we have alternative, non digital,

1372
01:37:43,090 --> 01:37:47,590
probably, in the short term, non digital alternatives to manage

1373
01:37:47,590 --> 01:37:52,570
things like, you know, basic, basic trade in our communities.

1374
01:37:52,570 --> 01:37:55,120
We need that. That is the kind of thing that we're going to

1375
01:37:55,540 --> 01:38:00,130
have to do, because otherwise, you will the only other option

1376
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:05,140
is compliance, and we can't, you know, comply our way out of

1377
01:38:05,140 --> 01:38:07,930
this. There's, there's no way of complying our way out of this.

1378
01:38:08,200 --> 01:38:11,320
So you know that that's the kind of thing that we need to do.

1379
01:38:11,800 --> 01:38:15,310
I, you know, people that have listened to me for a long

1380
01:38:15,310 --> 01:38:18,640
time will know that I echo a lot of those same solutions. It's

1381
01:38:18,670 --> 01:38:23,320
never been more important to starve them of your data. And it

1382
01:38:23,350 --> 01:38:29,500
really the smartphone is being framed as in most places, by the

1383
01:38:29,500 --> 01:38:35,230
way, essential for digital ID implementation, digital banking

1384
01:38:35,230 --> 01:38:38,620
implementations, pay with your face, technology, all of that,

1385
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:44,620
if you are truly against this agenda and that you need to find

1386
01:38:44,620 --> 01:38:47,050
a way to get rid of your smartphone. I don't really care

1387
01:38:47,050 --> 01:38:50,410
how you do it. I don't care if you do it in six months or a

1388
01:38:50,410 --> 01:38:52,990
year from now or whatever, but you need to make a plan to get

1389
01:38:52,990 --> 01:38:57,250
rid of it, because if you do not want to comply and do not want

1390
01:38:57,250 --> 01:39:01,450
to be herded into this world, you have to say no to this

1391
01:39:01,450 --> 01:39:05,710
device specifically it has to go, and especially why we can

1392
01:39:05,710 --> 01:39:10,480
still get, you know, physical flip phones. Here in Chile, they

1393
01:39:10,480 --> 01:39:14,710
call them grandpa phones. And happy to be a grandpa phone

1394
01:39:14,740 --> 01:39:19,990
user. Hopefully more people will join in that regard, because a

1395
01:39:19,990 --> 01:39:23,890
lot of the bells and whistles, you know, for example, a lot of

1396
01:39:23,890 --> 01:39:27,670
stuff in Chile, doesn't you know, people demand WhatsApp and

1397
01:39:27,670 --> 01:39:31,420
all these other things you can have. If you have to have access

1398
01:39:31,420 --> 01:39:34,630
to that stuff, have a smartphone. You keep in a Farrar

1399
01:39:34,630 --> 01:39:37,930
day bag, and you pull it out maybe once a day to check on it.

1400
01:39:37,960 --> 01:39:42,280
We have to UN addict ourselves to the Doom scrolling and all of

1401
01:39:42,280 --> 01:39:46,570
this other stuff. It has to stop, and we have to get off of

1402
01:39:46,570 --> 01:39:50,110
a lot of these digital media platforms that are breaking

1403
01:39:50,110 --> 01:39:54,040
people's brains and degrading our attention span and our

1404
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:58,480
cognition, especially with AI proliferating everywhere, which

1405
01:39:58,480 --> 01:40:02,920
is why Mark Goodwin. And and myself are working to bring

1406
01:40:02,920 --> 01:40:06,850
physical media to the forefront of Unlimited Hangout. Hopefully

1407
01:40:06,850 --> 01:40:10,180
other people will follow our example. And we can't really do

1408
01:40:10,180 --> 01:40:16,150
it, though, if consumers, the audience, right, don't also make

1409
01:40:16,150 --> 01:40:19,900
that commitment to honor physical media over digital

1410
01:40:19,900 --> 01:40:24,130
media as we, you know, move forward in our fight against

1411
01:40:24,130 --> 01:40:28,690
this incoming technocratic dark state, it's never been more

1412
01:40:28,690 --> 01:40:34,510
essential to invest for the good of your brain and for society in

1413
01:40:34,510 --> 01:40:38,170
the physical and I'm not just trying to show my own bags here

1414
01:40:38,170 --> 01:40:41,560
with physical media. You know, there's plenty of other people's

1415
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:45,370
books and things that people can buy too, but it's good for your

1416
01:40:45,370 --> 01:40:51,370
brain to read a physical book you can hold and stop asking AI

1417
01:40:51,370 --> 01:40:56,380
to tell you if things are real. You know, I mean this, we have

1418
01:40:56,380 --> 01:41:00,610
to stop this. It is a slow creep by design, and the gradualism is

1419
01:41:00,610 --> 01:41:04,000
there to acclimate us to the quote, unquote, new normal that

1420
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:08,380
they started to really roll out in force during the COVID era.

1421
01:41:08,380 --> 01:41:11,020
And we have to actively know that when we interact with these

1422
01:41:11,020 --> 01:41:14,380
things, and we have to fight against it and to touch on

1423
01:41:14,380 --> 01:41:17,050
something you brought up. Iain, the importance of physical

1424
01:41:17,050 --> 01:41:21,160
community is extreme. I can't stress it enough. You have to be

1425
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:25,480
involved physically with your local community and local

1426
01:41:25,480 --> 01:41:29,260
people. You have to know your neighbors. You have to be

1427
01:41:29,260 --> 01:41:32,110
investing to some degree, and I don't necessarily mean with

1428
01:41:32,110 --> 01:41:37,600
money. I mean like with time, in food security, other things you

1429
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:42,700
need to survive so you are as independent of these control

1430
01:41:42,700 --> 01:41:46,870
systems as possible, and it's a choice, and it's not easy.

1431
01:41:46,870 --> 01:41:49,900
They've intentionally made it so that the easy path is their

1432
01:41:49,900 --> 01:41:54,340
path, assuming we will all be lazy and that we will fulfill

1433
01:41:54,340 --> 01:41:58,600
what they think of us, that we are the unthinking demos, the,

1434
01:41:59,650 --> 01:42:03,280
you know, the useless eaters that we are like cattle and will

1435
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:08,380
just be herded like livestock into these systems. If we want

1436
01:42:08,380 --> 01:42:12,250
individual sovereignty to continue to exist, we have to

1437
01:42:12,250 --> 01:42:14,230
exert it, and we have to exert it now.

1438
01:42:14,860 --> 01:42:17,260
Yeah, no, absolutely I couldn't. Couldn't support that

1439
01:42:17,260 --> 01:42:20,530
more. And one thing that people say, Oh, well, I'm not sure what

1440
01:42:20,530 --> 01:42:24,430
to do. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to proceed. I

1441
01:42:24,430 --> 01:42:28,660
think if you have basic principles, then you can quickly

1442
01:42:28,660 --> 01:42:33,550
adapt to things. So for example, if you if in order to buy

1443
01:42:33,550 --> 01:42:38,080
something or do something or join something or or be part of

1444
01:42:38,080 --> 01:42:44,290
something, you have to hand over your personal data, then don't

1445
01:42:44,290 --> 01:42:47,830
do it. So if that, if that means, you know, getting a store

1446
01:42:47,830 --> 01:42:51,220
card or whatever, don't do it. Don't hand over your personal

1447
01:42:51,220 --> 01:42:56,680
data, because and guard your personal data just as much as

1448
01:42:56,710 --> 01:43:01,030
anything else in your life that is precious to you, because it

1449
01:43:01,030 --> 01:43:04,780
is you what you are giving away. When you hand away your personal

1450
01:43:04,780 --> 01:43:10,630
data is yourself. You are handing over access to you, to

1451
01:43:10,630 --> 01:43:13,780
people that you probably never know and probably never meet,

1452
01:43:14,110 --> 01:43:17,800
and people who, ultimately, at the top of that food chain have

1453
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:22,960
got, have got a dark agenda. So so, you know, I think that's

1454
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:25,870
really important. So, you know, at that point, if you go into a

1455
01:43:25,870 --> 01:43:28,960
store, or you go in, you find yourself in a situation where

1456
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:33,040
you have to hand over your personal data, don't do it. Now

1457
01:43:33,040 --> 01:43:36,670
that might come at a that might come at a cost to you in that

1458
01:43:36,670 --> 01:43:39,880
moment. You know, you might not be able to do the thing or have

1459
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:43,630
the thing that you want in that moment, but in the long term,

1460
01:43:43,900 --> 01:43:48,250
you've made a very wise decision, and you will have just

1461
01:43:48,250 --> 01:43:52,900
identified something that you need to work around. So that

1462
01:43:52,900 --> 01:43:55,060
will enable you to think, right? Well, I'm not handing over my

1463
01:43:55,060 --> 01:43:58,900
personal data to do this thing or have this thing, so how am I

1464
01:43:58,900 --> 01:44:02,320
going to find an alternative for that. And it is by working our

1465
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:06,580
way through the system in that way that we will collectively

1466
01:44:06,580 --> 01:44:09,520
come together, hopefully, and that's what mass non compliance

1467
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:13,150
is all about. It's not about being living in splendid

1468
01:44:13,180 --> 01:44:17,200
isolation. It is about forming networks with people who are

1469
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:20,050
encountering the same difficulties, because then we

1470
01:44:20,050 --> 01:44:23,710
can work together, and then we can support each other to work

1471
01:44:23,710 --> 01:44:27,640
around those problems, and we will work around them, but we,

1472
01:44:27,670 --> 01:44:32,110
but we have to do it together. You know, we need the support of

1473
01:44:32,140 --> 01:44:35,200
each other, and particularly we need support in our local

1474
01:44:35,200 --> 01:44:39,940
communities, forming networks in our local communities, so that,

1475
01:44:40,060 --> 01:44:43,510
you know, and I don't mean this in a dramatic sense, but so that

1476
01:44:43,510 --> 01:44:49,570
we can survive with a reasonable standard of living in in the

1477
01:44:49,630 --> 01:44:54,970
short term. Because, as I tried stress in the book, this stuff

1478
01:44:55,030 --> 01:44:59,200
is being put in place now, so we need to stand up to it now.

1479
01:44:59,890 --> 01:45:02,740
I. Mean, and it's that's never been more important, and

1480
01:45:02,740 --> 01:45:06,430
people need to start doing it actually now. And there's a

1481
01:45:06,430 --> 01:45:09,520
reason that they diverted so many people's attention to Trump

1482
01:45:09,520 --> 01:45:12,280
acting like he was going to magically fix everything for

1483
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:15,850
like, the whole world about the stuff, making people think that

1484
01:45:15,850 --> 01:45:18,610
they don't need to do anything themselves. They can just sit

1485
01:45:18,610 --> 01:45:22,420
back and and wait for, you know, daddy Trump to do everything

1486
01:45:22,450 --> 01:45:25,330
that's gonna, you know, stop all the bad guys or whatever. I

1487
01:45:25,330 --> 01:45:28,480
mean, it's, it's, it's a comic book narrative that isn't real,

1488
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:33,280
and we need to lean into what is real as much as possible and

1489
01:45:33,280 --> 01:45:37,600
build real things. So thanks so much, Iain, for your insights,

1490
01:45:37,840 --> 01:45:43,030
for your great work, and for your amazing new book that I am

1491
01:45:43,060 --> 01:45:47,590
honored to have helped help make reality. It is an extremely

1492
01:45:47,590 --> 01:45:53,560
important read. It is extremely timely, and I think everyone

1493
01:45:53,590 --> 01:45:59,680
should definitely make an effort to educate themselves about

1494
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:02,290
these people, because, as you have pointed out many times,

1495
01:46:02,500 --> 01:46:06,640
they are extremely deceptive and close in. The key part of their

1496
01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:09,790
deception is all of this jargon that they cloak themselves with.

1497
01:46:10,090 --> 01:46:12,880
Learn what it means. Learn what these people are really doing.

1498
01:46:13,060 --> 01:46:17,980
And there's no better way to do that, for starters, than to get

1499
01:46:17,980 --> 01:46:21,400
your book. So Iain, where can people find your book and how

1500
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:23,410
can they otherwise support your work?

1501
01:46:24,310 --> 01:46:28,364
Yeah, thanks very much. Whitney, yeah. It's, it's, it's

1502
01:46:28,438 --> 01:46:32,860
through your publishing house, which is Papercut Publishing.

1503
01:46:32,934 --> 01:46:37,283
It's also, if you go to the link, which is perhaps a little

1504
01:46:37,357 --> 01:46:40,084
bit easier to remember, all one word,

1505
01:46:40,158 --> 01:46:44,507
thetechnocraticdarkstate.com that will take you to Papercut

1506
01:46:44,581 --> 01:46:49,004
Publishing, where you can get get a copy of the book, or are

1507
01:46:49,078 --> 01:46:53,648
currently pre-order the book. It will be available and will be

1508
01:46:53,722 --> 01:46:58,292
distributed in 2026 and you can support my work at my website,

1509
01:46:58,366 --> 01:47:02,788
which is IainDavis com. You can also it's read my obviously,

1510
01:47:02,862 --> 01:47:07,064
read my pieces on Unlimited Hangout. You can also get me.

1511
01:47:07,138 --> 01:47:11,634
IainDavis.substack.com, and, you know, speaking of what, just

1512
01:47:11,708 --> 01:47:16,204
very quickly, I have just now started to encounter the impact

1513
01:47:16,278 --> 01:47:20,922
of the Online Safety Act in the UK on Substack. Now I have been

1514
01:47:20,996 --> 01:47:25,345
using Substack because, you know, it's just advantageous to

1515
01:47:25,419 --> 01:47:29,620
me, you know, in terms of getting readers and in terms of

1516
01:47:29,694 --> 01:47:34,191
a small amount of income that you get from from Substack. But

1517
01:47:34,264 --> 01:47:38,908
I am now required, or I'm not, not me personally, but I will be

1518
01:47:38,982 --> 01:47:43,479
soon, but certainly readers that want to comment or give me a

1519
01:47:43,552 --> 01:47:48,344
private message are now required to verify themselves, so so that

1520
01:47:48,418 --> 01:47:52,619
means handing over their biometric data and entering this

1521
01:47:52,693 --> 01:47:57,116
system. And I've urged all my readers not to do it. Don't do

1522
01:47:57,190 --> 01:48:01,612
it. I certainly won't be doing it. And when they come to the

1523
01:48:01,686 --> 01:48:06,330
content creators like me and ask me to verify myself, that will

1524
01:48:06,404 --> 01:48:10,827
be the end of my time on sub stack, I'm not doing it. So you

1525
01:48:10,900 --> 01:48:15,471
know, that means that we have, I'll have to find a workaround.

1526
01:48:15,544 --> 01:48:20,410
And that's exactly the point that I was making a moment ago. Yeah.

1527
01:48:20,450 --> 01:48:22,580
And I think it's not just going to be limited to Substack.

1528
01:48:22,610 --> 01:48:26,690
Obviously, it's coming to every major site, and so now is the

1529
01:48:26,690 --> 01:48:29,600
time to prepare. I mean, that is why Unlimited Hangout in

1530
01:48:29,600 --> 01:48:33,140
particular, is working on developing physical media that

1531
01:48:33,140 --> 01:48:38,870
way you can, you know, still get access to my work, to Iain's

1532
01:48:38,870 --> 01:48:41,870
work, Mark Goodwin's work, other people's work without having to

1533
01:48:41,870 --> 01:48:45,860
interact with these age verification systems, and you

1534
01:48:45,860 --> 01:48:49,070
can just have something that's real, physical and ultimately

1535
01:48:49,190 --> 01:48:54,170
uncensorable, especially in the age of AI powered mass

1536
01:48:54,170 --> 01:49:00,290
deception. So hopefully, people will, you know, agree with the

1537
01:49:01,250 --> 01:49:07,040
the reasoning behind that, and, you know, not comply with these

1538
01:49:07,040 --> 01:49:11,840
things. And I think, you know, for now, a lot of the a lot, is

1539
01:49:11,840 --> 01:49:15,440
going to be decided by what happens now if people are going

1540
01:49:15,440 --> 01:49:20,600
to comply with these things that aren't drastic. I mean, you what

1541
01:49:20,600 --> 01:49:24,800
you the example you brought up with sub stack, people that are

1542
01:49:24,830 --> 01:49:27,950
that are going to comply with that just so they can comment

1543
01:49:28,250 --> 01:49:32,870
and read messages, are losing the plot. That is something that

1544
01:49:32,870 --> 01:49:36,110
is easy to lose. It's different than, you know, losing your

1545
01:49:36,110 --> 01:49:39,320
livelihood, or not being able to work, or not being able to

1546
01:49:39,320 --> 01:49:42,440
drive, or something like that. And so if we can say no to those

1547
01:49:42,440 --> 01:49:46,220
things, why they're small, we have a better chance of avoiding

1548
01:49:46,220 --> 01:49:49,190
them entirely once they're bigger, with much bigger

1549
01:49:49,190 --> 01:49:53,720
consequences for our lives. So please say no to all this age

1550
01:49:53,720 --> 01:49:58,010
verification, digital ID, biometric stuff as it's

1551
01:49:58,010 --> 01:50:01,940
happening now and then. Hope. Hopefully, you know, we can

1552
01:50:02,510 --> 01:50:05,240
resist a lot of the stuff before it gets worse.

1553
01:50:06,110 --> 01:50:08,960
Now, yeah, I couldn't support your move in physical

1554
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:11,540
medium or, I think, I think you've been very wise to do

1555
01:50:11,540 --> 01:50:17,450
that. And I, you know, and in the long term, we will, we will

1556
01:50:17,450 --> 01:50:20,000
find ways around this. And we may be, you know, they're,

1557
01:50:20,030 --> 01:50:24,770
they're already kind of things like quartal and these kind of

1558
01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:30,890
potential online solutions, but in the short term, you know, we

1559
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:35,360
might have to dispense with pretty much a lot of the things

1560
01:50:35,360 --> 01:50:39,890
that we have been doing online. Now, I'm, I'm, I'm much older

1561
01:50:39,890 --> 01:50:47,750
than you. Whitney, you know, I'm 56 so I remember as a child not

1562
01:50:47,750 --> 01:50:51,470
having any of this. I remember when digital watches were

1563
01:50:51,470 --> 01:50:59,120
invented. Now, now my life without any of this was great. I

1564
01:50:59,120 --> 01:51:06,440
had a perfectly happy, enjoyable life without any of this digital

1565
01:51:06,440 --> 01:51:10,160
architecture, I didn't have any of it. None of us did, and we

1566
01:51:10,160 --> 01:51:14,000
and it wasn't some idyllic existence, but it wasn't

1567
01:51:14,000 --> 01:51:17,960
miserable. It wasn't awful. In fact, in many ways, it was

1568
01:51:17,960 --> 01:51:21,170
better. There was much more community then than there is

1569
01:51:21,170 --> 01:51:27,140
now, and so, so then we have got nothing to fear from just not

1570
01:51:27,140 --> 01:51:30,800
using these ridiculous digital systems that there's. We've got

1571
01:51:30,800 --> 01:51:35,240
nothing to fear from that. And and, you know, we can, we can

1572
01:51:35,240 --> 01:51:39,890
have a perfectly good, if not better, quality of life without

1573
01:51:39,890 --> 01:51:43,610
bothering with any of it. So, you know, I would just echo what

1574
01:51:43,610 --> 01:51:48,440
you've just said and urge people do not give away your precious

1575
01:51:48,440 --> 01:51:51,680
personal data. It is so important that you don't give

1576
01:51:51,920 --> 01:51:55,130
away access to your life. Don't do it

1577
01:51:55,520 --> 01:51:58,490
if you take anything away from this. In conclusion, your

1578
01:51:58,490 --> 01:52:02,180
choices really do matter. Think of them carefully. We'll leave

1579
01:52:02,180 --> 01:52:05,690
it at that. Thanks so much. Iain, thanks so much to everyone

1580
01:52:05,690 --> 01:52:09,170
that is listening. Hopefully, if you found this informative,

1581
01:52:09,170 --> 01:52:12,380
you'll share it far and wide. Special. Thank you to Unlimited

1582
01:52:12,380 --> 01:52:16,430
Hangout subscribers, and this will probably be the last

1583
01:52:16,430 --> 01:52:20,060
podcast from Unlimited Hangout for 2025 things have been a

1584
01:52:20,060 --> 01:52:23,120
little intense for me personally, so my output has

1585
01:52:23,120 --> 01:52:26,930
been a little lower than in past years, but that is about to

1586
01:52:26,930 --> 01:52:32,120
change. So please look forward to a jam packed 2026, full of

1587
01:52:32,120 --> 01:52:35,060
new and exciting things from Unlimited Hangout and some great

1588
01:52:35,060 --> 01:52:40,070
stories and some new great physical products. And with that

1589
01:52:40,070 --> 01:52:42,950
being said, thanks so much everyone and catch you all on

1590
01:52:42,950 --> 01:55:38,120
the Next episode. Have a great holiday season and Need You You