Everybody, welcome to
host, Whitney Webb. So as many
unless you follow me on Twitter
newsletter, but I've been in the
one and a half year old, since
actually still in the hospital,
right now. So I could get away
Because obviously, I've had a
plus months, you know, it's been
after trying to entertain a
for a long time, doing something
kind of normal again, which is,
in a sense. So I don't want to
medical situation, and I've sort
you know, before to an extent,
at the end of the tunnel, a
the timeline, but we're hoping
next month. So long story short,
changed me, you know, in a lot
lot about how I approach and I
of my life, including work, of
much everything. Um, I've
obviously. And, you know, that's
about today. For the first, you
several weeks, maybe of our stay
really, really bad way. And he's
Definitely not the kind he was
you know, I spent a lot of time,
looking at him, he was in an
support, you know, so I was
the circumstances that brought
happen, you know, if he doesn't
sorts of things, and I think,
for any parent, in that
obviously, for a lot of that
emotional. I mean, it's hard not
talking about it again, but, you
time since I've had kids that I
just sit and think about things
what kind of mother I've been,
and how I can be better for my
get to go home, things are the
know, I've heard from a lot of
their children in the ICU or
really just totally changes, you
parent you, you want to be,
emotional time, for lack of a
know, even though my son still
know, to heal from obviously, I
heal from to, you know, not
think, you know, if we're honest
right, you know, it's, it's
know, life is not necessarily
you know, we distract ourselves
kids, or, you know, all sorts of
we, we forget about, you know,
we're sort of forced by the
know, look at them and stare
a long time, and pretty much
had any sort of platform, but
avoided talking about personal
including why I do the work that
And I actually get asked this a
did I become who I am? Why do I
noticed, I try and give short
answers. And, you know, an
pretty recent. I I was asked
Bitcoin magazine conference in
he was Mark Goodwin, he was the
was going to ask me that right
was like, Oh, I actually don't
that. So I'm going to try and
because, you know, I, you know,
don't like talking about it is
interviews and public
work and the research and not
avoid, you know, the shoot the
want to discredit something. But
questions that are hard for me
talking about my past, or where
who I am, I don't really think
actually a rather unpleasant
this podcast, I won't be talking
maybe more towards the ends. But
focus on today is how a lot of
are abusive can be very similar
us right now. And how they're
particular direction, to make us
in some way, try and make us
examining those parallels, it
do it, and what we can do about
introduce the person who's
these issues. So of course, it's
Ryan Christianna, the last
favorite people and independent
you doing today, Ryan?
I'm good. Thanks for having
say off the gate, that I think
commendable, first of all, but
hard moment in life and turn it
something that's worth, you
from is something that people
there's always been these
that, that you can truly,
way. If you, you know, if you
it, you know, as much as they're
something that this is, you
we're going to talk about today
in regard to the government and
So I think it's a good time for
Well, I think, you know, on
societal level, a lot of us have
really like, you know, not to
heal our world, you know, and
isn't really messed up, because
really messed up going on,
trying to specifically target
So, you know, definitely crazy
I think part of the change that
be internal change for for
you can't change until you
Right. Totally. So there's a
this conversation. But I guess,
talking a little bit about, you
grew up in a household with a
very, very sadistic narcissist,
life, you know, I decided, as
home, and 18, that I didn't want
suffering from that. So I spent
that out as much as I possibly
know, you know, if you just bury
it's something that destroys you
know, you have anger and all
away at you, and cause a lot of
more I've reflected on that
there's a lot of resources for
if you look for it online and
lot of parallels, you know, with
whatever you want to call them.
that narcissists abuse, or use
and how the powers that be
similarities. And I think part
the day, what narcissists are
keep their victims and of course
this to everybody, they
people to do this to, or, you
one, you can't go anywhere, so
essentially, what they aim to do
toxic system, and train you to
needs and neglect their own and
know, we talked about a lot with
about control for them at the
trying to control have us in
obsessive. And of course,
continuously serve them and
So, you know, maybe that's one
that, you know, you, you and I
about before recording that, I
thing to look into here is the
what I would call the false
by that? So narcissists, tend to
personality, in a sense, but you
one side of that self, when it's
narcissists will have a superior
I call the false self, because
they want people to see about
inferior, devalued sell for, you
for lack of a better term. And
these and trying to manage the
bubble up from that devalued
for a lot of behaviors that
you know, behavior that they
in terms of the people that
know, providing them with, you
narcissistic supply or sort of
feelings of power over people
keep narcissists, more or less
guess, for lack of a better
rate comes from the Greek myth
narcissist was a guy that fell
lake or something like that, a
waiting for the response of his
for that response. But I think
way it is with Narcissus is that
for how they're reflected in the
of times, at least in my
obsession with how other people
viewed a very specific way but a
different than how they act
at home or with the you know, in
they're, you know, abusing
It's so interesting, the
love the overlap is so
way that these what I've we've
sociopathic borderlines
that it's inherently insecure,
contradictory. seems
these people are insecure with
inherently selfish, right?
create this perception of
people see them. And that's so
the government acts with us
know, making us feel lesser
I think this is such an
agree with you, I think that's
today.
Yeah, well, if you think
well, here's an example not to
Musk, right? Elon Musk has
certain chunk of people to think
obviously invested a lot of time
But it's very insecure, right?
example, there's a bunch of
post like where their private
accessible information, he
that, about him. And there's
Musk, and also have different
insults them or something, and
it, and have like many
know, destroy the person that
you know, there's a lot of a lot
lot of money and trying to
themselves, that if you look
real, like Bill Gates, for
project what a great
guy he is, you know, when if you
and his whole deal with
do with altruism at all. Right
certain version of themselves
they're like masters at this
sure.
Do you think that it is both
other people see them as better
fact is that they're trying to
like, in the sense of where the
their thumb?
Well, I think that's pretty
what I think is a pretty easy to
elite and the powers that be to
know, scum, really. And that's
eugenicist mindset comes from.
Right supremacist? Yeah.
idea, they feel like they're
so good at planning whatever
and who dies on the extreme end
and then, you know, elsewhere on
they get to choose who gets to
to reproduce, you know, they
make those decisions for other
people don't know what's best
looking at, you know, everyone
think this is sort of a taught
especially people that are part
moneyed families. I think it's,
upbringing.
You could also point out
mentioned, with Elon Musk, the
feedback loop, we've talked
social media works, that that
fulfilling prophecy by
system. And, you know, and just
it's a feedback loop. You know,
Oh, well, I was just gonna
all about the false self. I
finish the point. You were
that.
No, please. Yeah, this is
really interesting. And the idea
it.
Right. So you know, if
you know, like, we've talked
to publicly project a specific
that people view them a certain
how people view them, but it's
are. So the internet, I think,
and narcissist to extreme
people into narcissist who may
narcissist otherwise,
right? That's fascinating.
that were already borderline
average children, teens that get
makes me think of whether we
craters or not, but very
there that are very openly like
And yeah, that's, that's, that's
happening to a lot of unwitting
Yeah, well, I mean, you
on like teams, and social media,
And it makes them feel bad about
perhaps, most of those girls are
the most flattering, they spend
picking one out of like, you
right, or, you know, adjusting
stuff. So they're trying to make
possible, but they end up
projecting something that's not
falseness out there and
of, you know, fake interaction,
feedback loops and creating
To want to be in that is making
basically creating this false
right? And then privately, it's
know, feeling like their real
exactly what, you know, is the
know, obviously, narcissists
my point here is that, you know,
is really making it extremely
know, society where social media
at this point.
Yeah. Well, what you kind of
the overlap, like bringing it
that, you know, it wouldn't
like, let's just take the
think we're all kind of aware
project originally, that was
into narcissists and or
purpose, you were saying that it
where then one, they're easier
makes them feel way better about
Yeah, well, you know, you're
feel awful about how they really
to the system. And they like
unquote, approval, the likes
people that are reacting to the
mean, it's like every
you were mentioned in the
the same kind of feedback cycle
you make someone feel like
there, then you can you can
actions and that's what's
Yeah, but I think there's a
levels here too. So like when
narcissism like anything like
disorder, not that autism is a
know, there's this spectrum of
tends to fall on a spectrum. And
too. So you'll have like people
pathological narcissists, a lot
sociopathic, even sometimes they
know. And that's why I think
positions of power to because
psychopaths and sociopaths tend
corporate ladder, they tend to
of this stuff, too. And so, you
spectrum are easy to control in
stuff that over inflates their,
project out there, and the stuff
times what those guys want is to
control, or they want everyone
in the entire world. Celebrity.
control in, in that sense. And
on different parts of the
know, if you're creating, you
teenagers that have had social
small. And at the end, their
and they're using it right, and
feedback loops. I think the way
bit different than say, the
of that narcissist spectrum that
really rehabilitate, in a sense.
Well, I the first parallel
because this is where I've been
can obviously overlap with this
movement, and how these
create that same dynamic where
primarily young girls, today,
percent, even though that was
younger boys before that are all
that they're not right, that
what they are currently is not
was their goal. Yeah, no, I
agree that they're authoring you
look into this other self that
invest your time and energy and
your problems.
Right, right. And then the
you know, first, obviously,
you are. But if you do this, and
image that we think you should
happiness. But then what we're
just like the media platforms
unhappy, and then Mote you know,
that today. And then that, but
another cycle. You know, and for
something that's being done to
malfeasance, you know, like,
this is just one big, abusive
Well, definitely, I think,
power is by being, you know,
abusive is, you know, there's a
manifests, right? So there's
the state creates chaos, right?
They'll create chaos, and then
to stop this chaos, this crazy
go away, whatever you want, you
know, the elites also do that,
Exactly, well, ascension is is a
bombing all sorts of, you know,
state violence and other or
stop this if you give in to what
The parallel. I mean, it
when you think about it.
Yeah, but, you know, it's
probably because I grew up in a
but like, as an adult, like, I
recognize people doing this,
self esteem my whole life, you
really good at seeing how
the powers that be abuse us, but
me way longer than it should
Why do you think that is?
from someone like you that is
the things that many others
you think it took you so long to
immediate relationship, um,
because I think a lot of it
was a kid, I was made to feel
lot of narcissistic households,
kids in certain positions and
know, anywhere they talk about
they'll have one kid that's the
the term for it, and the other
everything gets blamed on and so
oldest kid and my daughter was
the golden child. And it's not
she didn't turn out to be a
lot of, you know, trauma from
different for me. So I was used
including stuff I didn't do, and
throughout my, you know, entire
was just kind of used to being,
you know, when it happened to
just, you know, it felt
we got weird, I guess. But when
like that, you know, it's
guilt trip me. I think that was,
bad like that all the time as a
sort of wired in my brain
people that don't have that
Yeah, that makes sense. I
know, revere the parents, and
government, you know, we're
know, you take direction as a
for a child, especially to stand
being the norm, you know, yeah,
example, in like, a relationship
everyone's familiar with,
it's called negging. Right. And
making somebody else feel
disarm them to a degree to where
them to the point of sexuality.
about it. But ultimately, that's
thing we're talking about,
for family level, or from a
level. Yeah, good point. So
kind of interesting is that, you
powers that be the elite,
when their actions show
of interesting, too, because
empathy, like normal people do.
but they know they notice that
interpersonal relationships,
they can convince someone, they
can, you know, I guess add
manipulation tool belt, you
how what do you know that
what the overlap is with
sociopathy because that's very
Well, I think there is a lot
you're not really caring about
the way, you know, narcissists
what can I get out of this
for me? How can I get this
need them to do? Not like, I
friendship or romantic or, you
with this person?
it the more I think about
a pin in it, it's that a
they still it's ultimately to
about who they are, or you know,
sociopath, maybe he doesn't care
to fit in with people that, you
but that seems like that makes
Yeah, I mean, maybe that's
there's a lot of I don't know, I
ways of looking at these people.
necessarily going to be the
narcissists do have sociopathic
make the most sense, because
from a utilitarian perspective,
relationships that way, you
person? And how can I use them?
back to this point of, of
trying to use someone, and they
person's feelings that can go
about, you know, even back a
doesn't work anymore. But like,
mainstream media, and all of
figures, politicians, right,
bad about something. Or they'll
this happened to, you know, this
shouldn't feel bad for them or
like the earliest example of
know, manipulations, I guess the
Rockefeller, the country's first
garbage shaman and the way they
around was by you know, showing
to like little pennies and coins
nice I'm being
and stuff. I remember that
the big the silver dime, right
shoulder come up and he hands
that's, it's that. Yeah. That
campaign. Right. That wasn't
And I think that's really
narcissists, too is that they
really empathetic, like I care
the powers that be want us to
did touch on that a little bit
definitely a commonality between
least tactic wise.
I think it's a really
kind of why I was asking about
empathy is, I mean, something
aware of they clearly feel they,
hard to say, because they're
themselves. But ultimately,
I think they know, when
that they work to that. Yeah. To
yeah.
To fit in, essentially,
a really important point to
projecting empathy is, is, you
can see that exactly the same
doing so in many ways that tries
feel guilty, maybe not about,
policy where, you know, showing
you know, in a bombing, like,
example, you know, somewhere,
like you didn't do enough. And
you know?
Yeah, I'm sure it'll do that
this sad situation, we should
Ukraine, right? Why didn't you
to John Bolton who said, don't
everything up. When it's amazing
know I'm blowing. Yeah,
I always point out that the
the other side of the world, you
watching people who they know
up and act like they care or
know, and that's a different
is very hard to like that causes
about that.
Yeah, well, another good
fundraising campaign for that
how all that money that was
the Clintons, they built six
don't know where the money went,
was feigning empathy for the
it, right. Feigning empathy for
the people that were donating
then taking the money and
And then even another aspect
they take that and do terrible
happened?
Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So
it's happening. Now we right
yeah.
When it's upright, well, it
that was involved with that in
they do the same for the funds,
collecting for Maui right now.
the big voices, you need to
Haiti. And now he's the one
for Maui. So he's obviously not
false self, to the public, for
politicians do and but again, I
levels they have complete, like
that false self for them or as
Yeah. Well, I would say
I mean, it goes both ways that
entire lives like that. I've
sociopaths are better, they will
and people that actually have
just are their entire lives are
people are wanting to see.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
is, the less likely people are
be like, actually, that's not a
Yeah. Right. I mean, Obama
even now, like you what you
know this person, he very, very
cares. Someone who is there for
know that's not true. I mean, at
are case a case study for that
question then becomes, do you
let's just move Obama aside, do
people that are maybe not fully
in that way, that are that are
budding new narcissist in
Well, I'm sure there's like
ladder in politics, and you're
by example, and they're like
behavior I have to engage in to
once you get to the higher up
really any really corrupt
to the levels where you realize
corrupt everything is and how
there's a lot of theft going on
obviously, you know, you only
Uh, down to participate in it.
Right and compromisable
Yeah,
sure. And so, you know, you
operate in that type of
to be like the people that were
before. And I'm sure a lot of
in their political careers or,
field is for those qualities.
Yeah, I agree completely.
self, which is a real that's
conversation. We were talking
The idea of how that applies to
be going in? How do you think
regard to how they're just
these platforms?
So with social media, I hate
try and get us to identify more
this point is really, you know,
really, the internet is the
us to identify more with that
At the end of the day, that
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean,
a project like the metaverse and
that, and it's really obvious.
before how a lot of what's going
lead us there. But a lot of
metaverse like they tried to
COVID. And it was a flop. And a
COVID with the lock downs was to
digital world all the time,
and we could only connect with
Right. So I think it was a big
expected it that change to
than it actually did. Because
and so you have to continue and
Pepe, how intense that
false self whatever becomes
be in the metaverse or have
at the same time make people so
or in their, you know, in
happen. And when we talked about
guess it was last year. Or maybe
Yeah. It's hard to say no, I
Well, I've been in a
like no concept of time anymore.
about how there was like a I
writing in some MSM thing about
basically saying, by the time
you'll prefer the metaverse and
part out loud, very gross. Yeah.
it started with social media,
already talked about, like
esteem, because they're trying
publicly look the best they
eventually, there's this gap
putting all these filters on
stuff. But that's not how they
the mirror. What you're
seeing in the gap is makes
rather a unreachable goal,
happy with who they actually
Yeah, and they'll never be
like in teens and kids, and
years. And they're going to be
of hard to undo. And so it plays
talking about or that you
you know, seeking out kids right
Metaverse stuff and the
that is also appealing to those
essentially the same. It's this
trying to get you to be like,
self is that online self is that
think
both are just gonna ask you,
will finish your thought, but
the reasoning is to drive people
narcissistic side is clear for
us feel lesser than but what's
bigger implications of the big
all that but yeah, is that one?
Yeah. Yeah, I think so.
feel like they need that digital
more addicted to it they are,
won't give up their access to
their internet access. They'll
smartphone or their connection
anything to keep it anything at
Yeah, I mean that if you if
that's easy just to drive people
desperate to maintain what
Metaverse and then then insert
Yeah,
you know exactly. Yeah,
coming before the metaverse, you
what I just talked about to
Twitter right now. Twitter has
soon. If you're not a blue
Twitter.
Yeah, you know, oh, sorry.
talk about it later. Probably. I
already starting to roll out
predicted is that the the next
they get you, you know, because
the next most people that
the benefits are they're getting
know, an iris scan or who knows
Yeah, well, as you
already starting to move right
Twitter. I'm not going to call
cuz I mean, x was Elon Musk's,
90s. So it's always his
about this with new Twitter is
of the financial system, if not
there's people that are
media, they're on it constantly.
constantly. It's not everyone
But there is a group there that
the internet. And they can't
I have talked about in the past
the books a long time, even
new Twitter is to force people
to some form of government
in the US, obviously didn't get
for it. And they called it the
internet. So a government issued
your internet service provider.
you know them knowing everything
know, access through the gateway
everything you do online is
they're gonna know exactly who
ambition then. And that's what's
my work that I you know, I
stuff like the the web
which is like the FBI, the
intelligence, Israeli
banks. You know, it's within the
entities are there. They're very
ambition for how to end quote,
internet. Everyone's got to have
been a push to in mosque is one
Twitter, authenticate all real
said in the tweet, yeah. But
elsewhere, especially among
Australia campaigning against
allowed to be an anonymous
right? And so now what you have
effort to and it's not just
to new Twitter, the way they're
take a selfie and upload your
selfie extracts it says it in
and that's the run through an
This is a small side note
company of Amdocs by the
be fun to point out that some
everyone's favorite Israeli
like the early 2000s
Or any number of other
overlapped Israeli intelligence
the United States. But But do
selfie, I mean, it says
there's plenty of things that
taking iris scans? Do you think
they're doing?
Well, I think if it's your
going to be an iris scan because
specific type of camera. This is
with your I guess your computer
something. So probably not. I
its mission, its facial
face, right? Yeah,
just as just as alarming.
coming. And then you know, kind
point is that then people are
have to like these kids are
they're going to they're going
whether they realize it's bad or
cycle, you know, into the next
Totally. I'll give you an
relationship with someone that's
stuff, digital ide cbdc, and all
before bed, he was like, you
realistically be able to resist
defensive, I was like, Yeah, of
I'm trying to do. And like, my
resisting that system. And then
kept countering with all this
won't be able to live a normal
able to buy stuff that we need,
just like, whoa, you know, kind
people, you know, like, that are
category, like the convenience,
again, this false self, that
the way they want people to view
the day, they like, what they
like, even if even people that
Yeah, I'll take it because it
that stuff, right? I don't want
them
more power over their
people see them.
Well, not just that, right.
like, narcissists, in general,
their lives to basically cater
actually impossible. It's like,
constantly trying to fill with
of situations, because the
never enough, because you're
that's a, you know, a thing that
themselves, you can't possibly
they, they are trying to get
they don't really want to do it
like they like that convenience
I'm talking about to refuse to
her face, but was also very
recognition by police, even
companies pass that facial
to police. But it's more
It's just It's hypocrisy,
right, these are your your your
self, all all to your benefit at
essentially, is that what seems
do you how do you actually have
when you're like that? Not to
wanna keep going, I just popped
impossible. You know? Well,
Because you can't basically
relationship, whether they're
your boyfriend or girlfriend, is
they're manipulating you to try
keep them stable, but they're
stable. So no matter what you
through, and you know, they'll
fault all the time. No matter
yourself, it will never fix the
depending on how long you're
everyone, eventually, you end up
have nothing left because you're
been literally giving everything
end of the day, I mean, what
matter what they're asking of
whatever, you're giving energy
left without anything. I mean,
and that you have nothing and
the same time you're being
being good enough by this
They're Emotional Vampires,
well, go ahead.
No, no go you go. I'm just
add to the gaslighting is
gaslighting, and that's another
with everyday with power
constantly telling you, you
it's just different levels of
is very clear and all that.
Yeah, so gaslighting is
about where the term comes from,
it's from the 50s. And it's
malicious intent, wants to
mentally ill. And basically, he
house, which is where the term
And he and he slowly he slowly
that they've been dumbed, he
dammed and that there must be
over time, is gradually
insane, and making her doubt her
reality and the goal of
gaslighting is always done with
gaslighting is to have it so
comfortable defining your own
on someone else to define your
obviously did this to you a
but they did this to you with
can define your reality to suit
Yeah, like no no concern in
the other person feel. I mean,
never heard that before. That's
exactly what we're talking
narcissism, it's taxes. Clearly,
like a very prominent part of
It I think it is a prominent
a key way in which you try and
they can't, to make them
obviously. And just eventually,
don't feel like they can
they're dependent on the person
oftentimes will feign empathy,
having all these mental
make you think that like,
help you, you know, making you
them. And at the same time, that
or you know, also in the
right, are trying to get you to
to control you so that you
giving to them.
Right and back and
time that you are the problem
Yeah. The parallel to the
incredible with that. I mean,
operating out of the handbook.
Well, I again, I think a lot
mean, to do what they're doing
narcissist, right? And
So I guess, my guess my
might not that we can answer a
general, you know, is that a
they're sociopaths in those
deliberate effort to create the
direction? It's probably both.
with the elites, it is
And AI is a huge part of it. I'm
know, free again, going to be
Catherine Austin, Fitz, that's
artificial intelligence, it's
more than just what I'm going to
lab a few years ago, right, I
Security Commission on
head of that is Eric Schmidt.
for life and mentor, is Henry
in him wrote a book about AI. So
like setting essentially with a
the national security level and
basically how the quote unquote
artificial intelligence and the
so insane. So the overview of
because obviously, they say a
basically say, artificial
that we cannot see, because it's
then in another part of the
to depend on artificial
assistants, and if you think
creating music. It's creating
it's writing, fiction and
of these things humans used to
dependent on AI doing all that
become cognitively diminished to
dependent on AI. And we can't
that become dependent on AI that
generations be able to
don't oh my god, basically like
people's minds basically
stupid that we can't function
a different reality than we do,
AI has no morality it has no
there is programmed by these
dependent on AI to tell you
reality is and they don't see
right? So it's about people
to call it transformed really,
species where we can't perceive
that these guys program does it
same end goal is gaslighting,
goal. Exactly. But if the goal
reality to suit the needs and
That's the biggest plan for AI
know, write all the news
video or any photograph they
this is probably playing out on
because, you know, on Twitter
these AI guys, you know, Elon
was behind I think, one of the
GPT chat, GBT is all over this
it. And it was before its big
got to use it. It's gone viral.
happening. And in that book,
2020. They're basically like,
taken over our lives, and people
So they're expecting this to
are going to have to say, No,
crap anymore. And build
people have become so addicted
feelings they get from that, you
whole dynamic we're talking
this public projection that
won't be able to live without
Yeah, right. It's already
saying, I mean, they really
I mean, you're having sociopaths
sociopath is what it sounds
though, let me let me ask it
written a lot about the art like
able to achieve that does in
pretending this is artificial
basically emulating what they
it be actual artificial
that way? Because they've made
Okay, so I think artificial
talked about this before, part
far along as they want, because
about not that long ago, was we
sentient CYA, remember, and
trying to say that Google's AI
basically become like, the
that's kind of what I was
clear, not not just AI but
like which is what they're
this? Or are they is it still
It's gonna Yeah, the reason
like sentient and all this
able to achieve that. I think
they will have it feign empathy,
right?
They're literally taking
intelligence.
But that's the point.
like built in sociopathic, it
make us human, it's there to
the whole point. I mean,
does better and can like make
these people are telling you
And it's like a narcissist on
honest, it's kind of blowing
mean, we're talking about them.
we all seem to recognize are
artificial intelligence that
the way our lives are being
that? And they're literally
like they're like in an
mindset. They want to be like
forever. I mean, it's just, it's
stop something like that?
Um, okay, so
awesome question. I'm just
Well, one thing I mean, if
anywhere about narcissism, how
How do you end things with a
narcissist out of your life? The
same. It's go no contact,
contact, I mean, there's some
lesser contact. But honestly, in
what you have to do. Because you
they'll they'll try and suck you
think,
just the fact that I didn't
thought was an impossible
said is exactly right. You just
with artificial intelligence or
in front. Right?
It's the same answer. So
elite, that are like this, it is
right. It's going no contact
build something else. And that's
of other people have been
know, I think some people you
earlier, like, I've been good at
government level, but not so
know, seeing it in my own
grew up and stuff. Obviously,
but you know, I think there's
opposite problem, and they're
their personal life but they
do it because their parents
everyone they know is always
Maybe that's changing now to an
of people that buy into that
I agree. Yeah, that's
kind of
think about it. Yeah. About
life? You know, how do you deal
in a second. Oh, yeah. Go no
government that's trying to
pretty toxic. Right.
Exactly. Yeah. Well, I mean,
though, right? Because that's,
you look at it, like just taken
that the idea of somebody going
become a central part in how
that's near impossible for some
Yeah, sure. But, you know,
narcissistic relationship, like,
earlier, you end up feeling like
you're hollowed out, and you
lose complete control over your
all. They want all the control.
And it's not necessarily because
have. It's like the feeling.
that like, you know, or
essentially say the same thing,
that those feelings that bubble
self, right?
Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.
essentially get driven to a
already desperate, but now
So you might as well go, no
causing it? Yeah,
exactly. I mean, it gets to
keep going. Yeah, you know, and
powers that be obviously haven't
probably have to get worse for
people that know now, what's
answer is pretty clear. But I
people do, obviously. I mean, I
contact, but it's a whole issue
narcissist when they get
obviously, you know, it's a
when you're gonna have a child
the it takes time to disentangle
thing, at least a lot of the
it's, it's the, it's really the
Yeah. And I think the point
you break contact, you still
you know, you without that
right, it's a whole process to
think with this, this
see that in the sense of the way
their lives. Because you're
you look at a personal
to help somebody that have a
want yeah, you know, so there's
through that for people.
You know, I'm glad you
know, in cults, right, you have
Stockholm syndrome. And
cults of survivors, trauma,
get thrown around, but I think,
from other people before, I
you know, there's, there's
like, people have Stockholm
right? Because you're grown up
is going to be there for you.
parent. And ever since the
it's been one long, steady road
greatness. Well, I mean, that's
school textbooks, I mean, public
all. So you're, like, fed this
can't handle the reality, you
the reality is there, and the
they'll still hold on to that.
in a narcissistic relationship a
doesn't happen with narcissistic
earlier, kids are stuck with the
relationships, there's this
this trauma bonding thing. And
bombing. So it's like the early
you're just showered with
they're so nice to you. And they
that's called mirroring where
something and they'll be like,
they probably never even heard
become they study you
trying to present themselves
because there's so much like you
that we're so much like each
Because I mean, it sounds like
you know, someone that's
move and then emulating that
you. It's terrifying. Well, like
earlier, like I mentioned
mimic it. I think this is kind
someone to fall in love with me.
studied it and done it enough
that phase ends, you know, they
start. And then they start doing
far as the terminology club
crumbing, right, where basically
abuse, and then there'll be like
was in that love bombing stage.
they act like that person again.
the abuse. And so you're left
person. Or if I do, what they
telling me to do, and I accept
100% of the time, which no
you know, then that person will
perfect relationship like I
the beginning. And they'll just
a long time. And that's
is in the narcissistic
know, I think the way the
with like a PR campaign, you
that way and be like, Oh, well,
thing. Oh, well, look over here.
government's done. Or look, Joe
mind that they've eaten almost
or that, you know, his son's
corrupt, and, oh, look, they
grandkids and all this stuff.
that's an important part of
the basically just trying to
act like project that out to the
mentioned something before,
farming sympathy, you know, it's
it seems is absolutely necessary
what they're doing is to, you
same point from the beginning,
need to project that so people
it's kind of full circle.
Yeah. And don't worry about
thing, too, like in that PR
does. So like, they'll have the
leaders, the people in charge,
people, they really are with PR
with narcissists, too, that sort
seen it referred to as the smear
narcissists realize they can't
person is no longer serving them
them. But before they discard or
know, they don't necessarily
discarding the person but in the
to they they start slowly
back, like, oh, yeah, well, the
crazy to some people here in
insurance policy, in a sense, so
to be on their side when things
finally go south. Very
yeah, totally. And so I
to like, you know, they've
years that everyone that doesn't
a domestic terrorist.
Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, you
know, the capsulate, everybody
that's
crazy, totally. And there's
which also happens with
someone that doesn't want to
is automatically anti Vax,
people that just want people to
if they've gotten all the
you know, and there's like this.
for narcissists to do too. I
don't even know if I can pick
all the time with with these
that's really common with
don't have they don't allow
people, they abuse to have
healthy boundaries at all. So in
parents, they see children,
themselves. And so like, they
privacy at all, like so for
I'd get, you know, my mother
the house. So like, even if I
she could come in and scream at
to have that time to myself,
stuff. I obviously didn't keep a
them, you know, searched my room
you're not allowed to have
powers that be if you think
have any privacy. Right? And if
boundaries, in a sense, you
societal level or the
law, right? That's what's
in society, you can't break the
boundary that's been placed
the powers that be themselves,
without consequence. Right?
just for the people beneath them
It's all inherently ties
exactly the same point with
is very aware that we all see
they're doing is not trying to
They're prying in to our
sure that they know what's going
you're, you're staying with your
making sure you're not doing
opinion, it sounds more like
might be doing, they don't want
they don't want you to see. Or
more to me, it's more inherent
government. I
don't think they're good.
think if it was insecurity, I
control, control, and dominance,
them.
Your personal situations,
than anybody I mean, like in a
couldn't you argue that control
way that people need that
narcissists, because they're
when you're not doing exactly
I would see that.
Yeah, maybe maybe to an
time, you know, like I was
because of my experiences, I
about how Pete other people's
there was this one story of this
this case. And he had three
daughters and necklaces, and he
four, five, and six, and said,
all the time, you can't take
you take them off, and I'll see
know, basically being like,
technology, and they were
terrified to take them off. And
little glass bead necklaces, or
that's about control. That's
you. Yeah, and doing whatever
using fear to control people.
lot of that too. And one of the
not, like I told you before we
of the reasons I've never really
before is because I've been too
I've, you know, don't have
parents, you know, I'm scared,
talked about it, I might get
something to me. I mean, it
life very much at all,
know, especially now because
know, the situation, you know,
was younger, but they they all
I'm still scared. Just to say
same thing to with with my ex.
months ago, I was scared to say
you know, my son was in the
like crap. He didn't even ask
son. And then he was, you know,
with people that I work really
including people that contribute
author articles with and not
other people, you know why I've
experience with our child. And
was also trying to publicly farm
off of my son's condition, even
never send money. So, you know,
that point, because I, you know,
fear of people forever. You
for a long time. And I don't,
government, right. Like, I don't
But in my personal life, I you
to just sit there and think
you know, who I am, you know, I
hell, while I was in a
That was wrong with me. I should
controlled by fear. But I was,
always be sad for me, you know,
I have to stand up to the bully
of us have to, whether it's the
people don't deserve to be
feeling like I deserve to be
for me to move on, I have I just
about it. Because I didn't know
fear. You know?
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean,
thing to do in general, just for
what's important? Is it you tell
even talk about this, depending
it. But the action of making
healing part we're talking
that you, like you said, like,
those listening, you know, what
point for you? What was it? I
this very powerful, this
you're suffering with your son,
reflect on that? Is that what
the edge? Or was there something
realize that you need to be
know, it, there was a lot of
course of relationship that was,
edge a few times, I guess, you
I broke up with this person, or
you know, the only reason I said
really don't like like I said
about my personal life at all.
really bad point for that to
son's been on a ventilator for
they're going to come home, and
of saying, How can I help? Is
know, bullying you demanding
threatening you. It's just, it
trying to trash your reputation
I couldn't, you know, I didn't
down anymore. I mean, it's just
that whole relationship left me
Anyway, and I was, you know,
hospital, I felt like I was
then to have to go through all
And I mean, I mean, there's, you
happened before them, too, you
spew all the details or
at a certain point, people have
in their personal life, or, you
you know, healthy boundaries are
me, it's been hard because, you
have boundaries. So, like, being
is like a lifelong struggle, or
33. So I'm not that old, I
taken a long time. For me to
treated that way. Like,
know, and, you know, that's
mean, we all have stuff that,
with, because of, you know, how
everyone's case is different,
mean, it's been, it's definitely
challenge. And in my case, and,
esteem sucks. You know,
working in an environment like
people are not like that, and
And, you know, some of them are
narcissistic spectrum a bit too,
influencer status, where I feel
we were talking about earlier on
people that do have those
massive following, and, you
has to go into overdrive for
ahead, go ahead. Yeah, well, you
know, I was told, when I broke
know, I couldn't break up with
was their chance to make it an
associated with me. They, I
that they've been using me the
care about this stuff at all.
this whole ID driver's license
out, because I can go like, play
stuff that I actually like, you
report on like, Insane Clown
stuck on a screen constantly.
people that are willing to, you
relationship by impregnating
get that stuff. I mean, it's
really think you know about
that experience and in a
I always wanted to think that
is anti system and anti
they're not going to be like
at the end of the day, I think
people in alternative media,
way, I think that same model
earlier, exactly, over time, has
than before in alternative media
be all about the followers and
revenue model, it's definitely
from the truth telling and the
MSM, I think a lot of, you know,
alternative media have
a different variety of talking
And it's really disappointing.
good. Well, I think also, like,
an alternative media, if we're
from mainstream media is be
there's not enough authenticity.
you know, if you think back many
just starting, and I think
tell, at least, you know, people
thinking can sort of sniff out
pretty easily over time. You
you who they are. Eventually,
know, even in the political
want to dunk on on Robert F.
people can imagine that I don't
Yeah. But you know, I've met
nice to me. When my son was in
email saying he was praying I'm
didn't have to do that, you
he's a bad guy. But I think, you
for office, or it was his idea.
think this happens to a lot of
good intentions. They pander. I
Bitcoin Conference, how I felt
was like, you know, when you
then it's really successful, and
always Electronic Arts, and then
it down so that more people buy
ruin it, by trying to like make
what happens when someone you
for office, right? I agree, at
about it. And so you know, I
someone like him, had gone into
I'm going to keep authentic
pander to powerful groups and
be authentic and say what they
people don't like it, people
everyone in political offices
know, exactly that is, people
everything's freaking fake, you
Yeah,
I was just gonna say on a
know, you point out the, the
that on the other side of that,
you're also being overwhelmed
from people, you know, we
well, that you up, you do a
comments, or people just very
angry mean things. And that
has an effect. And by the way I
to your point about social,
of them have kind of con gone
some of that's intentional
care about money, but a lot of
know, we're because they're in
the beginning, that what social
find yourself in this position.
been speaking about about
you've got this model. That's,
where people didn't realize this
mixed up in this, their entire
hinging on Twitter, ad revenue,
you can see, you know, that
the ad revenue. Yeah, the ad
it to a next level, because
And so you had like, you and I
that had viral tweets about Maui
totally fake and saying it was
Right, but that guy got a ton of
that program. him, right? So
saying whatever. And so people
thing that they think is gonna
or positive, most likely
off of it. Well, I
would say, though that I
speech in mind, even though it's
they should be allowed to say
with. But what I see happening,
censoring things that are true,
then almost raising up this
think is truly happening is
always said the independent
been, like, we're all just in
money is barely ever been there
it suddenly they're like
totally rush for fake news, like
then they can point at it.
Exactly. Yeah, I think
mean, if you see, you know,
part of this technocratic system
ambition that Musk has for it.
way to sort of, you know,
media. And so part of that is
credibility of people that
approved media. And people like
It's an old tactic of poisoning
welcome be full of clean water,
poison, and then you ruin the
point to that and be like that,
don't use it. So, um, you know,
at the end of the day, I think,
that to. So, you know, I think
know, this is true of
an addiction, in my experience
If it's not there, they have to
that fighting, they get
the constant back and forth and
people that you know, it's
right? And not necessarily
narcissist. I'm not saying that.
addictive stuff that happens in
likes and followers, and lots of
to arguing constantly and online
means to do that, and then you
and then have it everywhere in
and all of a sudden, Twitter is
Yeah, totally. You know,
we don't like, I don't know
actual physiology. That's the
makeup of what happens in this
one thing I've read about in the
like for instance, taking the
Twitter, in the back of the what
cases for people, when you get
it's cortisol, right? Your fight
know, but what happens for
begin to change the way your
producing a different you get a
from making people angry, and
brain. Oh, that's terrifying. I
what's happening.
Yeah, that's very possible.
crazy. That's crazy. You can get
angry.
Well, we know that exists.
like, like people that are, you
themselves during sex. And, you
there for some people, but I
some of these people. You know,
to me. Yeah. Good. No, I
mainly because he like, because
this constant generation of
hate conflict. I hate it when
fight let's, how can we defuse
this later. And, I mean, it's
someone's angry, I'm like, How
I react to it not I just can't
awesome. I made the mad and
feeling that feeling you get
talking about it feeling you
from some negative
you it sounds like people with
this negativity that you can't
either like that to begin with,
know, and it just becomes
grew up with people that used to
actually would love to get in
school, you know, and that's the
feeling that you enjoy through
way that works. It should be the
change that or they're born that
something in there that has to
talking about. I'm just not
to speak on it. But that's
Well, there's a whole bunch
that have been like there's a
what I can throw in the show
people that have devoted their
lot of these dynamics and, and
necessarily like how the powers
interpersonal relationships. And
There's a guy named Simon
times in the past, he kind of
it's actually more so about why
actually leaders. It's a really
eat last I think, is when he was
exact point, the, the, you know,
serotonin, and, you know, goes
applies. His whole point,
that are, you know, they
interest. It's the same kind of
his larger point is that true
that's the opposite of we're
we're dealing with people that
first. Because if I don't, I
have to die to do it. Like those
Sure. No, most definitely.
narcissism thing, too. Because
the people you're talking about,
center everything based on their
is what matters. And, you know,
one, they'll frequently talk
And, you know, that extreme
for them to think about others
hard for them to think about
situations, in dire situations,
Absolutely. I mean, they
both in relationships, as well
like, like, as if you become
yourself that you are the most
may be in some cases like so
Yes, I think that's probably
current president, I don't think
I agree with that.
Let's talk about being a
Yeah. I think Trump's a pretty
people freak out about the
personal power in general, you
you are the most important and
You know, it's interesting, in
is more more of a good point is
where you convince yourself that
without you. And that's like a
you brought up Trump and
see stuff posted by Trump
all Trump supporters, but
guess they're probably sort of
they basically talk like,
office and they're like, it's
all about how he is was chosen
he's this and that. I mean, it's
about Trump, how he's basically
imagine the guy that's already
narcissistic tendencies? And
like that and treating him like
that's scary. He probably loves
Oh, yeah. She goes back to
probably also enjoys the
to some degree, you know?
Yeah, it's possible when it
yeah. Because I mean, this whole
you're having, like all the
like, yeah, and all the people
look, he's such a hero, because
Well, either way, you're at
really the center of all of it.
Exactly. Yeah.
Why people still exist, and
they're like, my prediction will
they're going to say, see, we
office. It's like, wait a
said. You said he would be put
it's gonna be another narrative
predicted what happened, but
would queue on on it's just a,
write books about how crazy that
Yeah, but I mean, it's still
segments of Q anon Right? Like
were like, Okay, I'll trust the
were the Q anon people that
Texas to see John F. Kennedy Jr.
over the country.
Seriously. It means it's
the overlap, but you could make
part of what's happening with
today. Like, like that they're
right. No, and nobody else does.
there too, because the evidence
They manufacture this reality.
something that could be part of
it. Yeah, totally. No, that
And they, in my experience, they
victim simultaneously of every
never the bad guy. Yeah. It's
know, for someone who is trying
extremely wounded inferior
project something that is
reality. And so, it, it seems
good. But to people that aren't
better word, like distorted,
like, so disconnected from
talk about themselves, you know,
yeah, right, because like, they
false self isn't anchored in
can go to places that other
line with reality. And they
person but like, they'll be, you
everyone, you know, because, you
inherently charming, and
right. That's how they rope
And they're very good at
least for a while. Yeah, I think
maintain it online, to be
than having to maintain it in
maintain it in person, I feel
time. Because online, you don't
energy to it. So you can
depending on the frequency,
you're trying to convince.
Yeah. And you also don't
relationship is superficial,
Exactly.
You have to Yeah, exactly.
So we've been going almost a
want to add that we haven't
No, I just I, you know, I
that, you know, I know that this
very hard for you to talk about.
know, commend you on that, in
was asking before is, you know,
talk about, but I think that
you're discussing here today,
stands out to me is not just
but finding a path away from it.
this, the government, you know,
a lot of people that are living
maybe haven't even recognized
hopefully, what you're
it, you know, and then give them
step away from it and make
hopefully stop that from
just, you know, I think it's an
know, it's hard to talk about,
Well, you know, I have more
know, tack it on to the end of
because, you know, I, I would
why I care so much about them,
where it came from, but I didn't
conversation, because like we've
think there's a much more
that. And, you know, I feel like
people can get something
Absolutely. I mean, I think,
is, I think people will listen
give them the courage to try to
And I think that's positive, no
Well, you know, in my case,
gaslighting, when we talked
time, it becomes hard to know
that's actually how it is like
you're like instilled with this
like, is it really is me that I
And you know, really, the only
take notes of what you
you refer back to it, that it
had to do that. And it was
thing was that I had to
stories of other people that had
I had to, I had to read a load
different people all sorts of
whole Reddit about this, and
websites where people talk about
really helpful and like
hard, especially when there's
thing to and,
yes, we didn't even get into
that makes it exponentially more
Yeah, well, you know, I
into it, I guess. But it
was. I didn't mean for now.
go ahead.
Well, it's all a matter of
when you're talking about going
the powers that be or a toxic
of entanglement are different
people that like live a certain
entangled with the powers that
are very entangled, right, and
individual case, or the
get out of it. There's different
depending on how entangled you
mean, that sort of defines how
contact? You know?
Absolutely, I guess I would
know, I think that one of the
story is that, you know, it is
to make it to the, you know,
gonna call it, but I do think
you know, you can make these
yourself in 1000 different ways,
recognizing this and growing
that's, again, that people can
first step. You know, that's a
But the thing about No
time to realize that's the
what they have to do. And the
because they think the person
don't change, no matter what you
have to change them. And the
be in the government. Nothing is
you can vote as hard as you
change. That's the whole point
basically become a meme now of
is about the shadow government
the elected offices are
the end of the day, right? So
change. So you can participate
the election, and think that
system from within by voting for
going to happen, it will still
same. And the only way to free
free yourself from the insanity
on you is to have nothing to do
Because it's they're not going
that the system or the person
disentangling yourself from is
going to change, no contact
forward, ultimately.
Absolutely. Yeah, I think
here is really the overarching
that people need to learn from
things that are affecting their
Well, you know, like I said
feeling like I deserve to be
There's people that will take so
and not do anything about it.
what people are enduring right
doing much about it. It's kind
think people, not just in the
conditioned and used to being
by the government, as like,
people are just used to it. And
it really shouldn't be
scary. Think about?
Well, I think it's I think
I mean, if you look at right
being sent into essentially a
people in Maui are getting like
are worth like, you know,
definitely way more than $700.
I mean, it's ridiculous. It's
It that's meant to be and so
there's, you know, an
tragedies. Exactly. And there's
American tragedies, where it's
or it made the situation worse.
benefit of people that finance
of the government itself. It's
think the difference now is that
it. But we have to do something
exactly. Because if you're
relationship, and you do nothing
your kids. You know, what good
same is true of the government
the powers that be if you're
system is working to enslave you
doing nothing about it and going
to a system that wants to
control you. Why are you not
that, you know,
yeah, exactly. So that's
step.
Totally. And, you know, it
some people here you know,
like, build a new system, exit
like, Oh, I'll do that later and
thing, but you have to take
abusive relationship, or, you
like off of the system in some
like, bam, overnight, right? You
you have to take step towards,
it at some point. So, you know,
context of both, you know, the
in interpersonal relationships,
level, and maybe it can help
looking at it in a different
hadn't really noticed those
and I felt like it was helpful
eye opener, you know, for me,
lot of this stuff, you know, a
hopefully it helps somebody
be awesome.
I learned plenty today,
stories and stuff that I looked
thanks for setting this up. I
powerful.
Yeah. Well, thanks, Ryan.
everybody, thanks so much for
my deepest appreciation to
and unlimited hangout. I know,
put out much content at all, for
of, you know, the obvious
just can't describe how grateful
really difficult time. Because,
support from my parents, I don't
father. And, you know, it's
that have really, you know, kept
I can't think thank you guys
enjoyed this podcast, I know,
you know, things I normally do.
interested, after, you know, I
sharing a little bit more about,
the intro, you know, giving an
questions and talking about some
for me to talk about, but
you know, why I ended up doing
truth. And, you know, what's
thank you, Brian. And thanks,
right, for those of you still
where I guess I get more
since I have, you know,
platform of significance. So,
focus of the discussion not be
because I think there's, you
Ryan, something much bigger to
like I said earlier, you know,
feel like I can, you know,
feel like, I am afraid of two
personal life, and it's not that
afraid of them all the time, but
from sharing my experience, and,
and interviews when I'm asked
etc, etc. because I was worried
you know, the core of that is,
them. And, as I've said, on, you
feel like when you have any sort
know, they have power over you.
know, part of my, you know,
factor in my life anymore. To be
you know, some of the, you know,
the past, about, you know, why I
about this stuff. And, you know,
really been able to answer fully
know, other reasons that I sort
in the podcast, so I'm going to
long, because this episode, I
on on the long side, but I'll
the pertinent points across. So
And my dad's a lawyer, my mom's
a lot of problems with my mom
sister who's about 14 months,
younger than me, so about a year
she was born, you'll see she had
problems I had to go to a lot of
wasn't anything, you know, like
through recently. And he, and
an excuse to say that, you know,
I got, you know, she was
Civilis, she was overwhelmed by
doctor's appointments and being
don't really remember my sister
definitely a few things here and
for various reasons, including
was stressed all the time, I was
grandparents, I got sent over
week, for a couple days, until I
10 or 11. And, you know,
you know, for for months. And
lot of ways, I was raised just
parents. But my mom in general,
it very clear that she was a
guess, and, you know, wasn't
to put it, not really interested
that I was sort of like the odd
kind of feeling I had from a
sometimes it was really nasty.
car, when I was seven, my mom
how I would have turned out, she
had me, you know, like,
terminated them. My pregnancy,
out later, and stuff like that
to a seven year old, but um, it
the time I was 13 or so. And
my mom's brother, who, you know,
thought he was a really lovely
fun, did nice things for us paid
you know, I was having problems
dating a guy that she didn't
break up with him. And it was
didn't want to so we were
And somewhere in there, she
him for all the problems that
lied about the nature of bliss
it was because I was dating a
because I'd gotten into drugs,
the time. And little did I know
drug and alcohol issues. And so
all of these things. And I don't
conversation, because I didn't
shortly after it happened, my
me and bragged about how my
don't know, it didn't really
mean, I remember being just sort
my mom would make up something
about making him upset. But I
lady, she does kind of seem to
people down and then kicking
lot of stuff, you know, I
before this, that, you know, she
how growing up, she felt like,
paid more attention to him than
had been the same way and that
attention that she'd been denied
jealousy about him. So I'm sure
the time. But anyway, this was
about it. And I thought it was
would insert this, you know
happen. And I was like, How does
uncle because I didn't know
past at the time either. But I
the next day and the day after,
made that phone call to him that
found dead had apparently killed
knew that I knew about the phone
other person besides me that
know, my mom, pretty clearly to
terrified, I guess that I would
they might believe me. And so,
started this big smear campaign
the church, my family went to
attended my school, and, you
that I, I was crazy, I was a
problems, I mean, just making up
whole bunch of stuff that that
did kind of try and, you know,
out, because it was really
did a lot of other things to try
grounded me all the time, she
outside of school, like I kind
ever. And a lot of, but she'd
out and do stuff. And my dad was
of times, I was alone, with her
really crazy stuff, stuff that
disturbing. She didn't let me
even took the locks off of the
that she could like scream at me
like all of this stuff, that
in retrospect, but at the time,
obviously awful. And, you know,
her mission to make me terrified
kind of didn't succeed in doing
wasn't going to tell anybody
really close with my
uncle's parents, who, because I
were after my uncle died. And I
more suffering. And I did try
tell my dad at one point. He
But you know, now he believes
more recently, because, you
is at this point. And I told
that later on became sort of
grandparents. And, you know, she
and said, not to tell them not
grandparents passed away, that
it. And so, you know, my mom
that. So she was, you know,
to make sure I didn't talk. And,
I've offered to tell her, but
doesn't, doesn't want to know.
much been carrying on a really
long time. My grandparents died
was 2018. So it's, it's been a
still sort of been keeping the
intentionally, just because, you
talking about it. It was a
was essentially trying to ruin
kill myself, like my uncle
guide me on about that stuff and
you know, everything about me
lot of just a lot of really
really like to look back on and
of the reasons that I care so
that, you know, for for several
believed me about what was going
that did, I started from all the
home. I started having like a
form of epilepsy, but it was
so I got sent to a neurologist
specialist lady that was like a
know, had both of those
that lady knew what was going
life to be honest, because my
the house. So I tried to leave
know, was complicated. So, you
tried, I found one place I could
for a week. And, you know, it
But anyway, this lady wrote a
accepted to. And they let me
aid as an independent, so I was
college and not have to worry
parents house indefinitely,
to college, if I acquiesced to,
wasn't interested in him
got off on a tangent there. But
lot about what I do is because I
had one adult, believe me, and I
was like, 18, and my uncle died
years of being the only person
right. And, you know, being
know, obviously, when you're in
you care about the truth, an
realize that it's, it's really
only person that knows that it's
can be lonely sometimes, you
something personal, like what
being too early in realizing
conspiracy theories are true.
lot of a lot of my experiences
didn't trust authority at all,
easier for me to see, than most
all the time. And, you know, to
in power, because, you know, if
have something to cover up,
people that are supposed to care
than anyone else in the world.
know, realizing that stuff,
I was in college about 21, or 20
was really lonely, then, now,
the same thing for my personal
family knows that, what my mom
I left home, it got directed and
or less run out of people to, to
know, it can be it can be really
And, you know, I guess, even
lonely, as a teenager, you know,
to that, and always tried to
happened, that I wasn't that I
stuff, and that I wasn't crazy
know, it's not exactly what I
interviews, when I guess that
know, I guess from now on, I'll
this podcast, so I don't have to
about it. Anyway, so I ended up
or pretty much broke off ties
calls from my grandparents who I
always tried to get me you know,
convince me you know, she wasn't
trying to protect them from
you know, it was hard to really
for a long time and I really
them at all until I was I don't
was born was just, you know, the
So anyway, I went to college I
experience there either because
around my mom really tired of
because you know her, you know,
podcast has been talking about
superficial social, I mean, a
fake. I heard people comment on
it was this kind of like larger
Lydian partying and all of this
off from that in college and the
mostly rich kids, and I was
was on like 100% financial aid
spend on, you know, whatever.
kind of a black sheep there, for
know, didn't take a lot of great
the academic side of it, had to
obviously has helped me now. And
know, write relatively complex
had to do a lot of that in
to was really writing intensive,
just got really fed up with how
and I sort of blamed a lot of it
culturally about the US, I just
people who'd been around really
everyone in the US was, you
cared about all this fake stuff.
there was no, there was nothing
lot of the time. And, you know,
started getting really sick. And
couple doctors, and they were
nothing wrong with you. And I,
with me. So, you know, I got to
miserable. I was like, Well, I
miserable and probably, you
for real. And do the thing I
do. You know, which, because I
my mom win. Or I, you know, I go
totally new life. And so that's
to South America, I sold the
you know, just pretty much left
live and work in Peru, I worked
nowhere. But the closest major
Machu Picchu is for those that
you know, I worked there for a
the issue I was having, which
But I you know, it took me a
exactly what was going on. But,
electricity where I was working,
but it was turned on once a
of hard manual labor and stuff.
pretty good for me. But
heads with the lady that ran it
a lot. But you know, she'd been
there on this mountaintop and
a drinking problem and it was
there. And so you know, I ended
because I didn't have any money
mean Peruvian currency and
least it wasn't then as the as
couldn't afford to go back to
and food service for a couple of
friends and life was all right.
know, everyone was busy and I
I went for a walk on this, this
you know, five minutes from my
been there before and stuff but
have gotten there alone and I
Peruvian guy. And it was
life where I really felt like I
thankfully I did it. And you
obviously traumatized from the
know it, I was still going to be
Cusco but then the guy that did
was like walking in the area
really unsettling to me. And so
the restaurant I worked at was a
she likes not like this. Why
Chile a chance. And you know I
his friends from college that
management stuff in the past and
said maybe he can help you find
that's how I ended up in Chile.
were rough for the first two
though Chile was definitely a
than Peru. And once I started
make enough income to live off
profession about two years after
like, the last half of 2016. And
daughter was born. And during my
with this new agey religion that
part of, and things for us got
and also progressively more
pulling way too much weight in
You know, I was doing pretty
also the breadwinner, winter and
our relationship and really, no
things effectively. And on top
spiritual differences made it
relationship. And so I ended it
turned two, and a few months
turned upside down with COVID.
abruptly and not long after
lockdowns in Chile started which
than the lockdowns implemented
I've talked about this on, you
previous podcast. So I was
feeling, kind of overwhelmed
COVID happening, work was even
know, there was so much going
research so much and urgently
was happening globally, every
scramble to figure out, like,
happen next, you know, and so
top of that, I had to juggle,
produce all this stuff with zero
trying to write why a spunky two
me, and, you know, we can't go
locked down. So after about six
talking to the guy who was
podcast, who is my son's father.
questions about who, you know,
framed himself as being the
I lacked at the time, and really
daughter's father, you know,
him, talking about how great he
offer exactly the relief that
I was really desperate for. And
hadn't been so worn down and
have thought a lot more about
him down to visit us in Chile,
even done it at all. But I was
can find it a lot in him. I told
parents how all that had
happened, you know, after I left
really empathetic, really cared,
wonderful, and that we shared
was this, you know, element of
so he came down at the end of
time he was here, it was really
daughter, because, you know, we
And, but during this time to you
about how I had to get away from
things were only going to get
awful. Everything about it was
feel really afraid to stay over
his country, the United Kingdom,
bad as they were in Chile, that
over there, things were still
And, you know, when I agreed to
told me things like Oh, I feel
since he essentially made it
I stayed in Chile, it was
me and my daughter. And you
home and was due to fly out of
capital in about nine hours
been living. That's when
And of course it's right when I
independence in my life. You
night we were staying in an
something, I can't really
I know, I was basically angling
emotional support from him.
know, jittery and insecure about
for, you know, an indefinite
know, with my kid until and, you
I basically just wanted a hug,
you know, elicited the complete
been hoping for, and instead, I
aggression, verbal abuse, just
I was, and just telling me, you
at me about how I'm awful, you
it, I was really taken aback
know, provoked this response,
convince him to stop. You know,
anything to get, you know,
you can, we can talk about
more calm, and like, let's not
and all this stuff, and none of
know, I got really upset,
for like, a really long time.
felt really vulnerable to and,
couldn't even talk afterwards, I
afterwards, you know, he gave me
apologize, and then started
outburst. And, you know, I tried
this and some similar outbursts,
that happened during the rest of
being stressed by traveling, or
about being responsible for, you
a bachelor for so long or
know, over time, it became
the case. So, you know, once we
true that I could take my
pretty much everything else was
was not as accommodating for us,
also, you know, pretty much
anywhere, because he didn't
papers to show to justify
Chile for a long time. So I
know, like, even though the
you know, they weren't as bad as
still really unpleasant, and I
stay long term. And, you know,
And it was pretty clear that he
by the fact that I, I didn't
more. And, you know, during
got there, I also learned that
work in the UK. So I started
bank account, which he would
there. And that was the start of
slope that eventually led me to
money. You know, what it was
I couldn't buy anything without
couple of weeks after we
from that point on, things
downhill. And some months later,
about if I hadn't gotten
afraid that I would have just
know, there's a part of me that
have a baby to keep me in the
detail how hard it had been, for
to juggle one kid on my own as a
guess he might have known, I
to leave if I meant having to,
know for sure, but, you know,
thought about. So my, my second
difficult compared to my first
of months, it was a lot of
time. I had really low energy
and keep working. And a big part
just so much more expensive than
afford not to work and, you
contributed, contributing very
you know, it's my income anyway.
all of our shared expenses and
because I didn't have access to
know, he treated any attempt on
statements is me not trusting
argument that, you know, being
and all that I didn't really
know, it was during this time
of abuse that started to emerge,
emotionally disconnected from
angry and be really aggressive
me deescalate the situation or
he would keep going and pushing
would break down, at which
like he was empathetic again,
good it was that I was now
and that I was connecting again.
wasn't disconnected, I was just
pregnancy, a poorly supported by
doing all the domestic stuff
and all that stuff, you know,
without a support network
you know, just arrived to a
only person I knew. So you know,
trying to push me to react so
down, he'd not only reward me
which he would normally
me that, you know, me crying,
was a sign that I had severe
mentally ill. And I needed to
him more, and do things the way
tried to give me the impression
me. And, you know, I was already
there. So, you know, I didn't
me anyway. And it was clear to
things that would set him off or
most of the time, and it left me
quickly. So one of the biggest
night where I had tried to turn
really loud snoring, he had a
I'd known people in college and
that it used like white noise
block out noise like in their
thought it was like a normal
minutes, he woke up, he was
accusing me of trying to hurt
And he went on like this, not
for several days. And he even
trying to use CIA MK Ultra
the fact that I could have not
him and how awful it was to turn
snoring. And I, you know, I
outs, you know, they happened in
three year old daughter,
white noise thing, he threatened
trying to kill him. And like all
would never say in front of a
young, and, you know, after
there would be these explosions
lols, you know, but the whole
pregnant and no longer in
me feeling trapped. And, you
quickly. And that was really
sensation living at my parents
mom, except that this time, my
too. And, you know, by this
positive aspects of the
at the beginning, had had
in conversations in
constantly just talk about
what he wanted to do what he
tried to contribute to the
me like with disdain, like I was
in his conversation or I was
you know, I was telling him that
know, was stroking his ego so it
know, belittle like, like
also during this time I found
said about the ease of getting
false. And so of course, I
account and regain my
And because he had not told me
when I came into the country by
went to look into it myself that
able to get residency was if I
spousal visa. And he had, of
well. But given how things had
did not want that. So about a
up leaving the UK, and I was
in total, we were traveling to
stressed during the trip and had
huge explosion in our hotel room
And it was just awful. I mean,
hours, if not more being
took my daughter and went down
I think he stormed out of the
stay there for him to come back.
room for me and my daughter. So
I didn't know how he'd be if he
you know, unsettled, obviously.
were staying in a separate room,
was leaving, he was going to go
London where we were living. And
daughter all alone in London
on a hotel room trying to get
deescalate stuff. And, you know,
anyone in London or the UK. I
through work, desperately trying
this really messed up situation.
six, and he texted me saying he
room we were in. And now than we
to Cardiff and canceled all the
London in the first place. And
he was able to recognize he had
go to therapy. But then when
want to find a therapist. It's
tried to set him up with one
And he said the first session
great. And then after that, you
to be crazy and was doing all
to go back. And you know, it was
weird, but I've never worked
know, trying to find somebody to
to do it himself, I guess. And,
out to her and asked if she had
And she said she hadn't. But you
just know that he decided I had
recommended her. And every time
should consider therapy again,
up as a way to shut down the
event and a few other blow ups
that one, I started having
peer group at her daycare. She
her age. So other three to four
her age and this girl's brother,
pants of other kids and like
underwear and they called it the
didn't really like that my
game at home with me. And there
That I had noticed, you know, my
you know, from the school and I
I'm gonna try and put her
this other school closer to
some neighbors who had their
really good. So it's just kind
he said he would do that for me,
and he would enroll her there.
he said, I asked, you know, so
heard from them. And he said he
first email he'd sent. So I
going to do it, if he could just
like less than five blocks away
so I could get my daughter back
paying for sitters hourly, it's
know. So anyway, his response to
an email that they wouldn't
that that email he had sent said
Care because my daughter had had
to a, quote, sexual situation.
immediately to that. But they
essentially told them that the
allowed but had instigated and
touch each other's private
nappy game. And so the new
police and social services and a
filed and investigation was
based on a warps narrative that
originally prompted me to take
because as far as what my
had observed, this was two kids
without any sort of sanctioning
instead of owning up to the fact
exaggerated the situation, he
decided to accuse my daughter's
and grooming enablers without
totally lost it when I didn't
when we didn't have evidence for
email. Because, you know, courts
blogging or publishing stuff
know, so to make what he felt he
my daughter after several
camera, a version of events that
narrative. And he said that I
you know, was a pedo enabler,
daughter from paedos. And, you
was already pretty worn down by
Social Services launched an
previous daycare, and they came
by our house unexpectedly one
and then to my daughter, one on
me with my daughter. And when I
wanted me to say to them,
listening outside the room, we
exploded at them and me, and he
them out of the house. And a day
services people who had been
because she asked for it when
house. And she asked to speak to
girl had noticed that my three
and he had his meltdown leading
this happened regularly in front
lady afterwards, because, you
just completely trapped. But I
had been created over my
was just spiraling out of
turn into major legal trouble
worse, and all the complete
accountability, or have like,
at all, which he you know, shown
just made it clear that this was
And, you know, I had to get out
mention the fact that I was just
really started to become scared
because it's not like it got any
worse and more aggressive and
And it was just, I'd never been
relationship before. And so to
services, ended up coming by a
our relationship more and reach
leave him in the UK, by
there, I'd have to marry him.
daughter and my son once he was
custody because of my ex's
unacceptable outcome. So I
problem was that I didn't have
because I would have to go
And then he would know I was
tell him I was going to leave
had done to try and keep me
a couple of friends intervene. I
told my ex I had to go back to
about the social services stuff,
options. And he said he was
and that I could come back when
so he acquiesced and I was just,
confrontation of him and me
leaving because I wanted To him
anymore. I just felt like I was
time. So in in late August of
after all of this, and my son
at the end of December. And in
my ex from a safe distance that
him, and I, you know, how I
over there. But shortly before
that he knew that he had been
anxiety, that his decade long
problem with another medication
And that if he sorted it out,
everything would be the way it
it was the meds, right. And
with a newborn baby into four
rebuild my life and Chile and
know, my book that came out last
and received him here again, and
to leave here, you know, I
independence again, on and, you
spent in the UK, it was just a
He was constantly trying to
Chile again. And all I was
a move right now, because I just
deadline, you know, wait till
know, that wasn't even enough.
than three months later. But
winter. And it was I got bogged
to juggle the kids, my looming
work maintaining a household by
after years of being told that
relationship that had ever
if I could just try my absolute
it could work. And I think a lot
partially relate related to
this strategy that's detailed
crumbing, where a narcissist can
seems like they're rational or
for something, which makes you
in that you just had to do
then things can work out, you
too, was just the emotional pain
mother forever and wanting my
like, I felt like I had to give
for things to work out. Because,
single mom with two kids, it's
with two different dads, it's
date again. So, you know, I felt
about him. And, you know, since
sowing doubt, playing on your
I felt like I could, you know,
that would make it better. And
time, you know, and, I mean, I
experiences at this point that
anyway, he came back last
things were mostly, you know,
been before, at least, you know,
I guess, early January. And in
gone to her father's house, and
hitting her when I wasn't
about it by phone, and I told my
felt that she had probably set
hadn't seen her dad in a while,
unavailable. So my daughter did
the truth. And you know, you
that could have serious
ex just went so far beyond and
he became like obsessed with
things like isolating her and
with her brother not letting her
coloring or doing or thinking
panic attacks and anxiety
naughty during the weekend and
the time my daughter said this
January. It went on until the
my ex for the last time so
this going on every day at home.
because it was just so extreme
he wouldn't let me have a saying
couldn't say anything about it
explosive fight. And in public,
different story, because he
stepdad. And, you know, but even
that knew him too, they can tell
on between him and my daughter.
up, did break up with him. And,
daughter, it was about how he
reason he gave us to why I
didn't have anything to do with
with me, or caring about me or
about how my relationship was
independent media. So he
been using me, you know,
the beginning. And, you know,
mom after my uncle's death, and
escalated, when she was afraid
what she had done. To my uncle,
that maybe that's what my ex had
maybe she hadn't been lying to
know, that's something I'll,
going to ask bring it up to her
to be behind us. But you know,
my accent, you know, I did
I sent him away, because I could
felt like my daughter was
childhood, I could see, you
it was just like watching four
know, and I just did not want
just know how, how painful it
important job as a parent is to
from continuing, and I am
to talk about it, because I
embarrassing and awful, that it
something about it, I should
But you know, you know, you
with a narcissist, and maybe you
that are really hard to break
to almost nothing. They fill you
weak, you know, like paralyzed
think of one positive thing from
it's that I understand my, my
know, for a long time, I never
relationship where someone
was miserable, and his kids were
I was him in my last
last three months. So you know,
a little more. So I'm so here
succinct summary as I can really
narcissists, how it's affected
struggle that I've had as a
boundaries to stick up for
truth is, because, you know,
got, I basically had my mom
against me when I was a teen.
repeated itself while my son has
and my my son's father, who
how he could help or support his
fundraised off of my son's
involved with us when he wasn't,
any of that money here, spent
behind my back to work
closely with contributors to my
articles with, and people he
via my website and so on, while
he didn't actually do on my book
website, and then also trying to
that we were still together,
because he knows I don't like
conflict, and that I was
it. But I did say something
to set things straight that he
he's made it very clear that he
crazy hit piece on me or
want to live with fear or worry
what his narrative is about me
me, I just want to move on and
and not giving him any thought.
care, I've left supporting
about this in the show notes.
time I plan on speaking about
because as I said before, I'm
I'm not planning on talking
event. You know, that me having
realize that they're in abusive
an experience similar to mine,
it's worth it to so. You know,
listen to me and my story.