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Hello, you're listening

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to Unlimited Hangout. I'm your

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host Whitney Webb. If you've

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been online recently you have

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probably heard of the Twitter

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files, which for the most part

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are Twitter threads written by

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one of two journalists Matt

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Taibbi or Barry Weiss, that are

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based on internal Twitter

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documents shared with those

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journalists by the social

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networks the new owner

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billionaire Elon Musk. Most of

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these internal company documents

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which have not yet been released

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to the public and had been

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curated by Twitter management

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for TV and Weiss revealed the

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politically motivated

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suppression of information or

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the suspension of prominent

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individuals, including them

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President Donald Trump from the platform.

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The Twitter files have generated

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more hype in the past few weeks

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than most other media events in

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2022. A lot of that hype on

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surprisingly has extended to the

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journalists affiliated with the

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releases Taibbi and Weiss, as

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well as Elon Musk himself. Many

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are lauding the trio as heroes

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are now viewed Twitter as a

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quote unquote free speech

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platform. But is this really so?

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Like most things that seem too

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good to be true? The same

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probably holds when it comes to

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the Twitter files have important

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revelations been made? Yes, but

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they aren't necessarily new

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revelations as many of the

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internal documents at the center

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of the Twitter files nearly

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confirmed claims that were made

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over two years ago. Is Elon Musk

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Twitter currently free of the

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censorship that the Twitter

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files purports to expose? Not

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quite despite the reinstating of

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some high profile previously

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suspended accounts in recent

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weeks. And looking at the main

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players as well as the main

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effects of the Twitter files

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phenomenon, it becomes quickly

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apparent that there is a lot to

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say about the whole affair that

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is sadly largely absent from

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even independent media coverage

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of the files in order to tease

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out and explore some of the

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deeper layers beneath the

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Twitter files. I am joined today

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by James Corbett of The Corbett

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Report at Corbett report.com.

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James is an investigative

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journalist and one of the

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pioneers of open source

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intelligence based independent

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news. At the Colbert Report, he

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has spent well over a decade

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producing a trove of high

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quality and meticulously sourced

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podcast videos, documentaries,

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and articles that cover some of

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the most important and censored

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stories of our time. He recently

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produced an ex post on Elon Musk

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and often overlooked aspects of

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his background. And like myself

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is quite familiar with a media

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event that took place roughly a

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decade ago and has some

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surprising parallels with the

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Twitter file situation today. So

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thank you so much for joining me

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today. James, welcome to

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unlimited hangout. Thank you for

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having me on. It's always a

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pleasure to talk to you.

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Likewise. So the Twitter files

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has generated a lot of buzz. And

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so I guess a reasonable place to

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start off the conversation with

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would be to sort of talk about

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maybe first impressions of the

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phenomena, and how the sort of

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effects that you've seen it have

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on independent media discourse?

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Well, I guess my first

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impression is that this could be

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useful in a way. Although, as

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you say, what we are getting

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here is not an actual treasure

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trove of documents. What we are

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getting here is a curated series

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of screenshots of various

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documents. But actually, that

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speaks to a deeper sort of more

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interesting phenomenon as we

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step into the electronic age,

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because the the types of things

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that we are seeing are

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screenshots of emails,

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screenshots of slack chats, I

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don't use Slack. So I don't know

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what the terminology is their

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direct messages, various forms

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of communication, that are

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presumably incredibly scattered

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over a number of different

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databases and organized in

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different ways. So it raises the

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fundamental question about who

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is curating these, this

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collection of screenshots? And

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so what what access do we have

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to the actual information behind

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them, or that contextualize

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them? Nothing except what tie up

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and Weiss and others are

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reporting. So we have to sort of

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take it at face value on a

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number of different levels.

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Actually, that goes back to

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something that I was talking to

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no meat Prins, about a number of

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years ago, she wrote a book

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about the various presidents and

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their relationships with the

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banks, and during their eras.

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And and one thing that came up

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in our conversation was that it

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was at least comprehensible. You

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could get a handle on, say,

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Roosevelt and the various

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correspondence that he had,

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because everything was done on

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paper, and through through

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letters. But if you move into

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the Obama age, and things are

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being done by email and these

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other a morphus, sort of

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electronic communications, that

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means it's extremely much, much

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more difficult for a researcher

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to get a handle on all of the

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communications that are going on

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and I think this is a reflection

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of that. So there's that sort of

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problem of it. What information

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are we getting and filtered

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through what source and that

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even be?

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came part of the Twitter files

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controversy itself as it was

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revealed that I believe it was

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you'll you'll Roth, who was

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curating these tweets, or these

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these these screenshots, I

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should say for the original, the

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first release of Twitter files

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threads by Matt Taibbi. And then

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he was canned and presumably

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replaced by someone else. But

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now who is curating these for

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the the reporters? Again? I

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don't know. And is there a

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different process going on?

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What's their screening process?

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It raises a lot of questions

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about how we deal with this type

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of information in the electronic

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age. And, like so much else in

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the electronic age, I think it

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comes back to the point that we

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are essentially at at the whim

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at the mercy of the people who

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are actually holding the keepers

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of the database, they will allow

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us to see what they allow us to

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see. And we won't see what we

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are not allowed to see.

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So it seems like, you know, one

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of the intentions here is for,

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you know, obviously Twitter is

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under new ownership with Elon

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Musk, you know, steering,

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steering the course of the

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company from now on. And it

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seems like what this is aimed at

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doing is making it seem like

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censorship. This politically

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motivated censorship at the

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focus of the Twitter, Twitter

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files, or the Twitter files is

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focused on that this will not

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continue under his under his

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reign, or something like that.

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Despite the fact that there are

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some people like a garland

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Nixon, for example, a well known

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critic of US foreign policy, who

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have been suspended since Ilan

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took over, for example, you've

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had some high profile

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people specifically in sort of

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the alternative narratives to

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COVID-19 people like Peter

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McCullough and Robert Malone

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having their accounts restored.

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But it seems like there's

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obviously some sort of

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motive for the people curating

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this and I guess it would be to

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convince people that the company

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is having a facelift of sort. Do

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you see that actually being

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likely or are we, you know, sort

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of being misdirected here? I

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would venture to say we are

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being misdirected. And I think

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that's already demonstrable, as

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you've already pointed out,

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given people like garland Nixon,

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as you say other people in the

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alternative media space who were

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suspended continued to be

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suspended under the reign of

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Emperor musk. Obviously, Alex

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Jones being one example where

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specifically Musk weighed in

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personally because now it is

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apparently Elon Musk's personal

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decision as to whether someone

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is allowed on Twitter or not.

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And Alex Jones will not be

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because me Elon Musk lost his

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first baby as as as a baby and

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he if he was holding him as he

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took his last breath claim

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disputed by his ex wife. But

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anyway,

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that and for that reason, Alex

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Jones is not allowed on the what

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what does that have to do with

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this? Very, very odd narrative?

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They're very, very strange, but

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in a sense, understandable.

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Again, Elon Musk, we have to

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understand that Elon Musk is a

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billionaire for a reason you do

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not become part of the

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billionaire oligarch club unless

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you are willing to play various

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games and I hope people

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understand by now that Elon Musk

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is certainly part of the

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billionaire oligarch club who

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has gotten to the position he's

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gotten to because he has been

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willing to play various games.

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And I think one of these games

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is that of course you're not

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going to let Alex Jones back on

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the platform that would be the

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the bridge too far. So he'll he

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might go in other directions

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with other decisions. But at the

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latest as we are talking, I just

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saw this coming across the news

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wire that the apparently the the

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college freshman who is tracking

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Elon Musk's private jet has not

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only now been suspended from

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Twitter, but is now apparently

289
00:08:43,770 --> 00:08:45,690
facing potential legal charges

290
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,060
over his Oh, wow, check. Yeah,

291
00:08:48,060 --> 00:08:49,470
so that's a long running thing.

292
00:08:49,470 --> 00:08:50,700
I think that's been going on for

293
00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:52,710
a year or two. Elon Musk disdain

294
00:08:52,710 --> 00:08:55,170
with this kid who, as you just

295
00:08:55,170 --> 00:08:56,520
mentioned, is basically pointing

296
00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:57,750
out where he's traveling,

297
00:08:59,490 --> 00:09:00,870
which he is allowed to do like

298
00:09:00,870 --> 00:09:02,010
this is publicly available

299
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,360
public information, indeed.

300
00:09:03,390 --> 00:09:05,910
Right. And so he is, is it's

301
00:09:05,910 --> 00:09:07,320
literally just a twitter bot,

302
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,030
essentially, that just posts

303
00:09:09,030 --> 00:09:10,740
every time his private jet moves

304
00:09:10,770 --> 00:09:12,480
somewhere. And again, that isn't

305
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,010
even necessarily Elon in his

306
00:09:14,010 --> 00:09:14,970
private jet. It's just the

307
00:09:14,970 --> 00:09:16,200
movement of his jet. But

308
00:09:16,230 --> 00:09:17,370
apparently that's not only

309
00:09:17,370 --> 00:09:18,570
against Twitter's Terms of

310
00:09:18,570 --> 00:09:19,860
Service, but now apparently

311
00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:22,590
questionably legally liable for

312
00:09:22,590 --> 00:09:23,970
that information. I don't know.

313
00:09:23,970 --> 00:09:24,870
I don't know how that's going to

314
00:09:24,870 --> 00:09:26,190
stick and I'm not sure which

315
00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:27,420
jurisdiction he's going to be

316
00:09:27,570 --> 00:09:28,560
tried. But anyway, that was the

317
00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:30,060
latest that I saw today. So

318
00:09:30,270 --> 00:09:32,430
again, it is the arbitrary whims

319
00:09:32,460 --> 00:09:35,070
of a singular dictator, which I

320
00:09:35,070 --> 00:09:38,460
am not sure if that's what Elon

321
00:09:38,460 --> 00:09:40,260
Musk's supporters and the people

322
00:09:40,260 --> 00:09:41,760
who are cheering him on during

323
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:42,870
this take Twitter takeover

324
00:09:42,870 --> 00:09:44,760
process. were originally

325
00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,290
cheering on. Were they really?

326
00:09:46,650 --> 00:09:48,450
Oh, yay. Now a different

327
00:09:48,510 --> 00:09:49,890
dictator will be able to come in

328
00:09:49,890 --> 00:09:51,780
and say, who is and is not

329
00:09:51,780 --> 00:09:53,100
allowed on the platform at his

330
00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:54,780
personal whims? Was that really

331
00:09:54,780 --> 00:09:56,160
what was being sold? Or was it

332
00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:58,380
free speech no matter what. This

333
00:09:58,380 --> 00:09:59,730
is the battle for the future of

334
00:09:59,730 --> 00:10:00,000
civil

335
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,320
allegations, that was how it

336
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,150
started, right? And then he came

337
00:10:03,150 --> 00:10:04,320
out with this line, which is

338
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,180
freedom of speech is not freedom

339
00:10:06,180 --> 00:10:07,800
of reach, which is basically

340
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,930
license to do all this funny

341
00:10:09,930 --> 00:10:11,430
business that the Twitter files,

342
00:10:11,430 --> 00:10:13,050
in part has focused on things

343
00:10:13,050 --> 00:10:14,970
like shadow banning, and, you

344
00:10:14,970 --> 00:10:16,500
know, putting people on naughty

345
00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:18,630
lists and, and whatnot, you

346
00:10:18,630 --> 00:10:20,730
know, because like they can have

347
00:10:20,730 --> 00:10:22,410
their freedom of reach.

348
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,020
Restricted, it's interesting

349
00:10:25,050 --> 00:10:26,310
anyway, I think since we're

350
00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:27,390
talking about Elon, a lot,

351
00:10:27,390 --> 00:10:28,950
you've obviously been looking

352
00:10:28,950 --> 00:10:30,960
into him, or have looked into

353
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,360
him rather recently. And I

354
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:34,350
think, you know, it's pretty

355
00:10:34,350 --> 00:10:36,090
clear from how he handles

356
00:10:36,090 --> 00:10:37,740
himself on Twitter specifically,

357
00:10:37,740 --> 00:10:39,030
but in other regards as well,

358
00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:40,710
that he's very, very, very

359
00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:42,660
conscious of his public image.

360
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,220
And there's a very specific

361
00:10:44,220 --> 00:10:45,900
public image of himself that he

362
00:10:45,900 --> 00:10:47,070
wants to construct.

363
00:10:48,090 --> 00:10:51,360
So maybe we can discuss that for

364
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:52,590
a little bit. And if you would

365
00:10:52,590 --> 00:10:54,900
like to throw in some of the

366
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:55,440
bits

367
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,470
about his background, that kind

368
00:10:58,470 --> 00:11:00,240
of clash with that public image

369
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,070
a bit. That would be helpful as

370
00:11:02,070 --> 00:11:03,690
well, well, I didn't go deeply

371
00:11:03,690 --> 00:11:05,490
into His family background and

372
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,380
where he comes from, other than

373
00:11:07,380 --> 00:11:09,780
to point out that he is a again,

374
00:11:09,780 --> 00:11:11,100
as people hopefully know, by

375
00:11:11,100 --> 00:11:13,140
now, literally the grandson of a

376
00:11:13,170 --> 00:11:15,090
card carrying technocrat who was

377
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,380
a high up member of the

378
00:11:16,410 --> 00:11:18,030
technocratic party in Canada,

379
00:11:18,060 --> 00:11:20,580
who fled to South Africa, and

380
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,160
apparently looms large in the

381
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,560
musk family law. Essentially, he

382
00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:26,790
was an important figure, even

383
00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:28,230
though he died, I believe, when

384
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:29,670
Musk was very, very young,

385
00:11:30,060 --> 00:11:31,440
perhaps even before he was born.

386
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,090
But at any rate, he looms large

387
00:11:33,090 --> 00:11:34,980
in the mosque family legend. And

388
00:11:34,980 --> 00:11:36,930
then there's a whole story about

389
00:11:36,930 --> 00:11:39,990
his father and the abuse that he

390
00:11:40,260 --> 00:11:41,310
may have suffered at his

391
00:11:41,310 --> 00:11:42,900
father's hands. And now his

392
00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:45,540
father, fathering new children

393
00:11:45,540 --> 00:11:47,460
with his stepdaughter, I don't

394
00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:48,870
know, it's very weird stuff

395
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:50,130
going on there. And that's.

396
00:11:51,330 --> 00:11:52,320
So this is the type of

397
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,030
background anyway, which from

398
00:11:54,030 --> 00:11:55,080
which Musk emerged. But

399
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,340
essentially, he emerged into the

400
00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:58,770
public spotlight at a relatively

401
00:11:58,770 --> 00:12:00,510
young age, making his way to

402
00:12:00,510 --> 00:12:02,790
Canada and then to the US, where

403
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:03,900
he began a series of

404
00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:05,280
entrepreneurial ventures,

405
00:12:05,490 --> 00:12:06,630
starting with something called

406
00:12:06,660 --> 00:12:09,690
zip to, which was meant to be a

407
00:12:09,690 --> 00:12:12,180
sort of, I guess, kind of like a

408
00:12:12,180 --> 00:12:13,740
proto Craigslist, essentially

409
00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:15,450
list your business on our on the

410
00:12:15,450 --> 00:12:17,520
on the internet, as when that

411
00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,760
was a new idea. And eventually

412
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:21,930
managed to make some money out

413
00:12:21,930 --> 00:12:23,340
of that by essentially selling

414
00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:24,960
that service to newspapers that

415
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,040
were starting to feel the pinch

416
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,260
of classified ads, declining

417
00:12:28,260 --> 00:12:31,500
revenues, and use that parlayed

418
00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:33,120
that straight into PayPal,

419
00:12:34,260 --> 00:12:36,690
which, again, is an entire story

420
00:12:36,690 --> 00:12:38,580
unto itself. And I'm sure

421
00:12:38,580 --> 00:12:39,690
there's a lot to talk about with

422
00:12:39,690 --> 00:12:41,340
regards to the PayPal Mafia and

423
00:12:41,340 --> 00:12:42,660
his connections to people like

424
00:12:42,660 --> 00:12:44,280
Peter Thiel. But don't worry,

425
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,470
Peter Thiel is a totally

426
00:12:46,470 --> 00:12:47,460
different has a totally

427
00:12:47,460 --> 00:12:48,840
different philosophy than Musk

428
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,220
at least, that's what Musk

429
00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:51,870
assures us. So you don't have to

430
00:12:51,870 --> 00:12:53,100
worry about Palantir and things

431
00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:54,720
like that coming from musk. No,

432
00:12:55,500 --> 00:12:56,700
you will simply worry about the

433
00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:57,990
brain chips and other things.

434
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:59,820
Because, of course, as people

435
00:12:59,820 --> 00:13:01,050
may or may not know, Elon Musk

436
00:13:01,050 --> 00:13:03,360
did spend a short time as CEO of

437
00:13:03,390 --> 00:13:04,290
the combined

438
00:13:06,330 --> 00:13:08,190
Pay Pal what what merged into

439
00:13:08,190 --> 00:13:10,740
Pay Pal from his ex.com. And

440
00:13:11,490 --> 00:13:13,620
Peter Thiel and slash Max lived

441
00:13:13,620 --> 00:13:16,860
since PayPal, eventually merged

442
00:13:16,860 --> 00:13:18,720
into a singular entity See, Musk

443
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:19,950
took over the CEO role for a

444
00:13:19,950 --> 00:13:22,110
short time was eventually

445
00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:24,090
shoehorned out of there because

446
00:13:24,270 --> 00:13:25,680
the board was not happy with his

447
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:26,610
decisions and the way he was

448
00:13:26,610 --> 00:13:28,260
trying to run the company. So he

449
00:13:28,950 --> 00:13:30,210
basically took the golden

450
00:13:30,210 --> 00:13:31,230
parachute out of there,

451
00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:33,870
received a few 100 million

452
00:13:33,870 --> 00:13:35,910
dollars for his efforts and

453
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:38,520
parlayed that into SpaceX, Tesla

454
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,770
Motors and SolarCity. And, and

455
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,090
the boring company and all of

456
00:13:42,090 --> 00:13:43,620
these other ventures, which I'm

457
00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:44,880
sure that your listeners are

458
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:45,930
broadly aware of that he's been

459
00:13:45,930 --> 00:13:47,040
involved with. But of course,

460
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,240
the connecting thread through

461
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,850
all these ventures is government

462
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,970
money, essentially, a whole

463
00:13:53,970 --> 00:13:55,290
series of different ways in

464
00:13:55,290 --> 00:13:57,540
which government grants and tax

465
00:13:57,540 --> 00:13:58,740
breaks and what have you have

466
00:13:58,770 --> 00:13:59,850
essentially propped up his

467
00:13:59,850 --> 00:14:01,740
businesses to the point where

468
00:14:01,860 --> 00:14:03,870
they are possible at all. And I

469
00:14:03,870 --> 00:14:05,790
think it's starting to become a

470
00:14:05,790 --> 00:14:07,200
point. Now you see, this is the

471
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:08,370
interesting part of this is

472
00:14:08,370 --> 00:14:10,800
because for a long time, Musk

473
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,570
has been a darling of I think

474
00:14:12,570 --> 00:14:15,270
the good thinking liberal left

475
00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:16,380
in the United States and

476
00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:18,570
elsewhere, who have seen him as

477
00:14:18,780 --> 00:14:20,850
this sort of cool space.

478
00:14:23,010 --> 00:14:24,780
tech guy who is going to save

479
00:14:24,780 --> 00:14:26,670
the environment, and he cares

480
00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:27,750
about all the things we care

481
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:29,460
about. It is only recently that

482
00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:31,290
he has made the heel turn as it

483
00:14:31,290 --> 00:14:32,730
were and is now being supported

484
00:14:32,730 --> 00:14:34,770
by the right wing of the culture

485
00:14:34,770 --> 00:14:36,150
war that's raging in the United

486
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:39,270
States right now. And so he has

487
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,770
enjoyed for a very long time,

488
00:14:40,770 --> 00:14:42,600
this sort of bad glow of

489
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,970
publicity, of being some sort

490
00:14:44,970 --> 00:14:46,830
of, essentially tech savior or

491
00:14:46,830 --> 00:14:49,500
tech guru. But now Now the very

492
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:50,760
same types of platforms that

493
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,320
would have been heralding him as

494
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:53,580
a savior just a few years ago

495
00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:55,230
are now digging in and finding

496
00:14:55,230 --> 00:14:56,490
you know, Tesla isn't a very

497
00:14:56,490 --> 00:14:57,600
well run company and they're

498
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,250
such things so it's just

499
00:14:59,250 --> 00:14:59,970
interesting to watch.

500
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,650
Chow this plays out not based on

501
00:15:01,650 --> 00:15:04,140
any actual difference in what is

502
00:15:04,140 --> 00:15:05,160
happening on the ground, but

503
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:06,900
simply the change in people's

504
00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:08,580
perception of who this person is

505
00:15:08,580 --> 00:15:10,320
and whether he is on their side

506
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,720
or not. Right, so let's talk

507
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,910
about a little bit how

508
00:15:14,970 --> 00:15:16,170
specifically since he's

509
00:15:16,170 --> 00:15:17,820
purchased Twitter how Elon Musk

510
00:15:17,820 --> 00:15:19,110
has been cultivating his image.

511
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:20,430
So I think it's pretty clear

512
00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:23,190
that he's very interested in

513
00:15:23,190 --> 00:15:25,170
presenting himself one as anti

514
00:15:25,170 --> 00:15:26,670
establishment right now. I mean,

515
00:15:26,670 --> 00:15:28,320
he's even gone so far to say

516
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:29,400
things like, I might be

517
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,710
suicided, and things of this

518
00:15:31,710 --> 00:15:33,120
nature. And this is a bit odd to

519
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:34,230
me when you consider what you

520
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:34,980
just mentioned.

521
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:37,530
And, of course, there's a lot of

522
00:15:37,530 --> 00:15:39,960
evidence for this, that his

523
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:42,870
wealth, his current roster of

524
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:44,340
companies, a lot of it could not

525
00:15:44,340 --> 00:15:46,530
exist without the establishment,

526
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,530
and a lot of these companies are

527
00:15:49,530 --> 00:15:51,930
very, very much involved with

528
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:53,400
the national security state,

529
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:54,990
specifically SpaceX, which is a

530
00:15:54,990 --> 00:15:56,430
defense and intelligence

531
00:15:56,430 --> 00:15:58,860
contractor. So you know, if this

532
00:15:58,860 --> 00:16:00,270
is a guy that's really going up

533
00:16:00,270 --> 00:16:01,170
against the,

534
00:16:02,610 --> 00:16:04,080
you know, the establishment with

535
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,340
the deep states, even though I

536
00:16:05,340 --> 00:16:06,360
don't really like that term, I

537
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:07,860
prefer national security state.

538
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,560
You know, he's, he's essentially

539
00:16:10,590 --> 00:16:12,240
a part of that. So it's a bit

540
00:16:12,270 --> 00:16:13,800
um, there's definitely a

541
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,930
contrast there. He's trying to,

542
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,850
you know, I guess, make himself

543
00:16:18,270 --> 00:16:20,820
seem just like a regular person,

544
00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:23,910
on occasion, posting memes and

545
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:25,140
other things. And, you know,

546
00:16:25,140 --> 00:16:26,250
there's other aspects of this

547
00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:28,290
image he's building is there. So

548
00:16:28,290 --> 00:16:30,210
what, what sort of image do you

549
00:16:30,210 --> 00:16:31,620
see him building? And what sort

550
00:16:31,620 --> 00:16:32,730
of motives Do you think maybe

551
00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:33,390
behind that?

552
00:16:34,590 --> 00:16:36,930
It's a, it's extremely difficult

553
00:16:36,930 --> 00:16:38,220
to know, sort of the inner

554
00:16:38,220 --> 00:16:41,160
workings of, of the creation,

555
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,390
the public creation of a

556
00:16:42,390 --> 00:16:44,670
spectacle like Elon Musk, but I

557
00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:46,770
do see it as somewhat similar to

558
00:16:46,770 --> 00:16:48,360
what we saw just a few years ago

559
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,410
with the creation of the

560
00:16:49,410 --> 00:16:51,210
personality of Donald Trump.

561
00:16:52,350 --> 00:16:54,000
And being sold to a certain

562
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,140
section of the public that I

563
00:16:55,140 --> 00:16:57,600
think is certainly ready for

564
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,070
some sort of Savior. I think

565
00:16:59,070 --> 00:17:00,990
that it is the Savior narrative

566
00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:02,250
that is being played on here.

567
00:17:02,250 --> 00:17:04,170
And we saw that with Trump was

568
00:17:04,170 --> 00:17:05,550
going to be the savior of people

569
00:17:05,550 --> 00:17:07,470
on the on the right again, of

570
00:17:07,470 --> 00:17:09,180
this culture war divide that's

571
00:17:09,180 --> 00:17:10,230
taking place, certainly in the

572
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:12,180
United States right now. And

573
00:17:12,180 --> 00:17:15,150
then that was, if not eclipsed,

574
00:17:15,150 --> 00:17:17,430
and perhaps bolstered by the q&a

575
00:17:17,430 --> 00:17:20,520
on SIOP, which even fed further

576
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,050
into that idea of the Savior

577
00:17:22,050 --> 00:17:24,120
narrative. And that obviously

578
00:17:24,120 --> 00:17:25,440
didn't quite pan out the way

579
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,390
that Kiwi supporters were

580
00:17:27,390 --> 00:17:29,490
hoping. So now it's time to find

581
00:17:29,490 --> 00:17:31,260
a new person to pin hopes on.

582
00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:33,390
And Musk has taken up that

583
00:17:33,390 --> 00:17:35,970
mantle. And to obviously, as you

584
00:17:35,970 --> 00:17:37,740
say, I think Musk is extremely

585
00:17:37,740 --> 00:17:40,200
aware of his public image. And

586
00:17:40,380 --> 00:17:42,510
just the fact that he is engaged

587
00:17:42,510 --> 00:17:44,730
in tweeting and replying to

588
00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:46,980
people on Twitter on a hourly

589
00:17:46,980 --> 00:17:49,140
basis, shows that he is

590
00:17:49,140 --> 00:17:50,040
interested in at least

591
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:51,510
cultivating some sort of public

592
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:54,570
image of himself. And clearly,

593
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:57,540
that is lining up with the type

594
00:17:57,540 --> 00:17:59,430
of, I suppose broadly, the

595
00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:01,410
resistance movement that has

596
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,090
risen up in the past few years

597
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:05,190
against lock downs and mandates

598
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:06,570
of various sorts, and Musk has

599
00:18:06,570 --> 00:18:08,790
positioned himself to be, I'm

600
00:18:08,790 --> 00:18:10,380
the one who's going to, I'm

601
00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:12,660
going to move to Texas, because

602
00:18:12,690 --> 00:18:13,650
I don't want to deal with

603
00:18:13,650 --> 00:18:14,970
California. And it's draconian

604
00:18:14,970 --> 00:18:16,350
lockdown laws and all of this.

605
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:18,750
So he has positioned himself in

606
00:18:18,750 --> 00:18:20,070
this way for a couple of years

607
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:21,870
now, at least, and now is really

608
00:18:21,870 --> 00:18:24,060
coming out as someone who has

609
00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:25,470
been championed, essentially,

610
00:18:25,740 --> 00:18:27,450
essentially, largely by people

611
00:18:27,450 --> 00:18:28,140
on the right, who are

612
00:18:28,140 --> 00:18:29,310
disaffected by the

613
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,140
establishment. And I think this,

614
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:32,490
this whole narrative of the

615
00:18:32,490 --> 00:18:33,990
Twitter files plays perfectly

616
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:35,010
and brilliantly into that

617
00:18:35,010 --> 00:18:36,660
because clearly, Twitter was

618
00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:39,390
very much being run by people

619
00:18:39,390 --> 00:18:40,860
who were very, very invested in

620
00:18:40,860 --> 00:18:42,510
the Democrat Party, and

621
00:18:42,540 --> 00:18:44,760
basically ensuring the continued

622
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,770
rule of the Democrats and, and

623
00:18:47,370 --> 00:18:50,070
on a disproportionate

624
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:51,750
suppression of information

625
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:52,980
coming from the right side of

626
00:18:52,980 --> 00:18:55,260
the political spectrum. So Musk

627
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,660
being put in this position.

628
00:18:57,660 --> 00:18:58,680
Well, he's the opposition to

629
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,300
that, therefore, he's on quote

630
00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:01,800
unquote, our side and I think

631
00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:03,480
exactly, again, exactly as

632
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:05,100
Trump, the billionaire was

633
00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:07,440
posited as he don't worry guys,

634
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:08,970
he's on your side. He's, he's

635
00:19:08,970 --> 00:19:10,050
for the average working man. I

636
00:19:10,050 --> 00:19:11,850
think, again, Musk is stepping

637
00:19:11,850 --> 00:19:13,230
into that role now that Trump

638
00:19:13,230 --> 00:19:17,370
has seemed to vacate it. So what

639
00:19:17,370 --> 00:19:20,160
Musk is doing here has sort of

640
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,110
raised my eyebrow baton in terms

641
00:19:22,110 --> 00:19:23,730
of you know, what he might be up

642
00:19:23,730 --> 00:19:26,190
to? So one thing that I've

643
00:19:26,190 --> 00:19:27,750
noticed over the past two years,

644
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:29,130
especially, you know, if you

645
00:19:29,130 --> 00:19:30,480
look at, for example, everyone

646
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:31,470
these days, and I was about the

647
00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:33,600
World Economic Forum, right. So

648
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,070
one of their big themes last

649
00:19:35,070 --> 00:19:37,920
year was rebuilding trust. And a

650
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,270
lot of even the Biden

651
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:40,590
administration. A lot of you

652
00:19:40,590 --> 00:19:43,110
know, prominent institutions are

653
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:45,360
very much aware that there is a

654
00:19:45,390 --> 00:19:47,730
major lack of trust specifically

655
00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:49,170
amongst certain segments of the

656
00:19:49,170 --> 00:19:51,990
population. So, you know, if I

657
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:53,850
was the World Economic Forum,

658
00:19:53,850 --> 00:19:55,590
which again, Elon Musk was a

659
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:57,510
young global leader, right,

660
00:19:58,530 --> 00:19:59,640
and agrees with a lot of the

661
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:00,000
main points

662
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,800
policies that, you know, sort of

663
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,480
web centric politicians and

664
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,450
others tend to support like UBI.

665
00:20:07,140 --> 00:20:08,910
Among among several others, I

666
00:20:08,910 --> 00:20:10,620
think a carbon tax some other

667
00:20:10,620 --> 00:20:13,560
things, you know, if I was, you

668
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,450
know, some like Klaus Schwab, I

669
00:20:15,450 --> 00:20:17,400
guess, right. And I wanted to

670
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:18,900
get people to rebuild trust, I

671
00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:19,590
know, they're never going to

672
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:21,960
trust me. Right? I need some

673
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,130
sort of figure

674
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,150
that people who hate Me will

675
00:20:27,150 --> 00:20:28,620
trust that supports the same

676
00:20:28,620 --> 00:20:31,020
policy agendas that I do. Right,

677
00:20:31,410 --> 00:20:32,970
exactly. Right, essentially,

678
00:20:32,970 --> 00:20:35,880
influence laundering by way of

679
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,590
the cool new tech savior that

680
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:38,970
hey, hey, guys, he's totally on

681
00:20:38,970 --> 00:20:40,440
your side. And I definitely see

682
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,300
what you're saying there. And,

683
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,730
again, since this is 2022, I

684
00:20:44,730 --> 00:20:46,080
guess we have to connect

685
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:46,950
everything back to the World

686
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:48,180
Economic Forum. So we must

687
00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:49,740
mention Young Global Leader Elon

688
00:20:49,740 --> 00:20:52,980
Musk, clearly, and as you say,

689
00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:54,180
onboard with so many different

690
00:20:54,180 --> 00:20:56,010
aspects of the of the

691
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:57,630
technocratic agenda, generally,

692
00:20:57,630 --> 00:20:59,160
but the World Economic Forum

693
00:20:59,220 --> 00:21:00,720
agenda specifically in Klaus

694
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,250
Schwab's statements, I know

695
00:21:02,250 --> 00:21:03,210
there's been a Twitter meme

696
00:21:03,210 --> 00:21:04,290
that's floated around for some

697
00:21:04,290 --> 00:21:06,210
time comparing Klaus Schwab

698
00:21:06,210 --> 00:21:07,350
statements on various issues

699
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:09,390
like UBI and brain chips. And

700
00:21:09,390 --> 00:21:10,770
what have you and Elon Musk's

701
00:21:10,770 --> 00:21:12,090
statements. I did make a little

702
00:21:12,090 --> 00:21:13,530
segment of that in my recent

703
00:21:13,770 --> 00:21:16,050
Elon Musk technocratic huckster

704
00:21:16,170 --> 00:21:18,360
expos a, just to drive home the

705
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,010
point that I think these people

706
00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:21,810
are aligned on many fundamental

707
00:21:21,810 --> 00:21:24,420
issues. So where where is this

708
00:21:24,420 --> 00:21:25,470
break? And why are people

709
00:21:25,470 --> 00:21:27,000
suddenly cheering on this person

710
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,440
who has been so intimately

711
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,030
affiliated with the the World

712
00:21:30,030 --> 00:21:31,440
Government Summit in the World

713
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:32,610
Economic Forum and all of these

714
00:21:32,610 --> 00:21:34,260
institutions? And where's New

715
00:21:34,260 --> 00:21:36,480
World Order? On his clothes?

716
00:21:37,020 --> 00:21:38,610
stuff? Exactly. Right, very,

717
00:21:38,610 --> 00:21:41,580
very strange symbolism and

718
00:21:41,790 --> 00:21:44,010
things that come from himself

719
00:21:44,010 --> 00:21:45,660
and from Grimes and the various

720
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:47,010
people that he's been associated

721
00:21:47,010 --> 00:21:50,070
with. But also, I mean, perhaps

722
00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:51,900
more substantially, we're

723
00:21:51,930 --> 00:21:53,520
looking at someone who is

724
00:21:53,790 --> 00:21:55,500
literally in the process of

725
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:58,260
creating brain chips, that are

726
00:21:58,290 --> 00:22:00,390
going to augment humans in order

727
00:22:00,390 --> 00:22:03,240
to save us from the transhuman

728
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:05,160
nightmare that's coming somehow.

729
00:22:05,820 --> 00:22:07,110
Don't think too deeply about

730
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:08,580
that. And oh, by the way,

731
00:22:08,580 --> 00:22:10,380
they're killing the test animal

732
00:22:10,380 --> 00:22:11,520
subjects left and right, but I'm

733
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:12,690
sure it'll all be sorted out.

734
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,520
Yeah, like 20% of the animal

735
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,260
subjects die. And if this was

736
00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:18,870
any normal medical device, and

737
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:20,730
the FDA was functioning as it

738
00:22:20,730 --> 00:22:22,590
was before, COVID, it would be

739
00:22:22,590 --> 00:22:23,940
very hard to get it to human

740
00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:25,920
trials. But let's just say it

741
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,480
seems like Elon Musk is taking

742
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,040
advantage of the removal of

743
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,100
obstacles at the FDA since the

744
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:35,580
COVID. situation to get neural

745
00:22:35,580 --> 00:22:36,930
link straight to human trials

746
00:22:36,930 --> 00:22:38,760
after animal trials killed like

747
00:22:38,790 --> 00:22:41,940
15 out of 23 animals or eight

748
00:22:41,970 --> 00:22:43,530
depending on if you believe Elon

749
00:22:43,530 --> 00:22:45,660
Musk's company, right. They say

750
00:22:45,660 --> 00:22:47,910
it was eight not 15. But and you

751
00:22:47,910 --> 00:22:50,340
know, exactly right. And let's,

752
00:22:50,370 --> 00:22:51,420
I mean, let's put this in

753
00:22:51,420 --> 00:22:52,860
perspective for people. What,

754
00:22:52,890 --> 00:22:54,750
what, what is the ultimate

755
00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:56,610
agenda here? I think your

756
00:22:56,610 --> 00:22:58,590
audience is not naive. And I

757
00:22:58,590 --> 00:22:59,670
think they understand by this

758
00:22:59,670 --> 00:23:01,830
point that when something is

759
00:23:01,830 --> 00:23:03,750
part of the broader agenda, it

760
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:05,160
will be approved through the

761
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,570
official regulatory process

762
00:23:06,570 --> 00:23:08,550
exactly as the mRNA vaccines

763
00:23:08,550 --> 00:23:10,680
were approved. Well, I mean,

764
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:11,640
there's a whole thing about the

765
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,140
word approved, but you

766
00:23:13,140 --> 00:23:14,340
understand emergency use

767
00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:17,550
authorized. And exactly in this

768
00:23:17,550 --> 00:23:19,830
case, as well. The things that

769
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:22,050
neuro link are have been have

770
00:23:22,050 --> 00:23:24,180
been doing and was documented

771
00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:25,860
before all of this Twitter files

772
00:23:25,860 --> 00:23:28,350
hype started to swell up in the

773
00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:28,800
media.

774
00:23:30,330 --> 00:23:31,530
Absolutely, as you say, would

775
00:23:31,530 --> 00:23:33,270
have disqualified absolutely any

776
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:34,320
other company. But for some

777
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:35,880
reason, on this particular

778
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,200
project, it seems that the

779
00:23:37,410 --> 00:23:39,000
regulatory agencies don't seem

780
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,880
to care too much about the let

781
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,080
alone the animal subjects, but

782
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:44,400
how about the the potential for

783
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:45,750
human trials going forward?

784
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,910
Again, if it's part of an agenda

785
00:23:47,910 --> 00:23:50,250
item, I think the doors will be

786
00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:51,900
open for it. And this is a prime

787
00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:53,910
example of that. Yeah, well,

788
00:23:53,910 --> 00:23:54,960
frankly, it's really disturbing

789
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,160
to me that if that many monkeys

790
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:57,180
died, and he's not worried about

791
00:23:57,180 --> 00:23:58,740
that many humans dying and human

792
00:23:58,740 --> 00:24:02,280
trials, you know, that's kind of

793
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,570
clashes with the public image

794
00:24:03,570 --> 00:24:05,010
she's been trying to cultivate

795
00:24:05,010 --> 00:24:05,460
lately.

796
00:24:07,140 --> 00:24:08,520
So what I brought up earlier

797
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:09,780
about the rebuilding trust

798
00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:12,060
initiatives we're having, or

799
00:24:12,060 --> 00:24:13,290
that have been, you know, openly

800
00:24:13,290 --> 00:24:14,730
talked about by a lot of these

801
00:24:15,030 --> 00:24:16,320
more or less nefarious

802
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,630
organizations. What worries me,

803
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:19,560
right, is that you people like

804
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,940
Klaus Schwab, talking about

805
00:24:20,940 --> 00:24:22,620
brain chips, and this

806
00:24:22,620 --> 00:24:24,060
technology, people like Bill

807
00:24:24,060 --> 00:24:25,860
Gates even on board, right, but,

808
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:27,690
you know, Elon Musk is basically

809
00:24:27,690 --> 00:24:29,550
developing a brand, so people

810
00:24:29,550 --> 00:24:30,810
that would normally be against

811
00:24:30,810 --> 00:24:32,820
that if it was Schwab OR gates,

812
00:24:33,060 --> 00:24:34,170
you know, they'd be like, well,

813
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,430
Musk is different, like what he

814
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:36,990
did with Twitter. He cares about

815
00:24:36,990 --> 00:24:38,340
free speech. He's not going to

816
00:24:38,340 --> 00:24:39,990
invade and surveil my thoughts.

817
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,650
You know, he's, he's not like

818
00:24:43,650 --> 00:24:44,850
the other ones. He's the

819
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,890
billionaire. Yeah, exactly.

820
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,300
Could you imagine if Bill Gates

821
00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:49,680
have taken over Twitter and was

822
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,300
personally running it? And I

823
00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:53,130
mean, yes, no one. Certainly

824
00:24:53,130 --> 00:24:54,420
none of the people who trust

825
00:24:54,450 --> 00:24:55,860
musk and what he is doing and

826
00:24:55,860 --> 00:24:58,170
are on board with this idea, the

827
00:24:58,170 --> 00:24:59,580
notion of freedom of speech,

828
00:24:59,580 --> 00:25:00,000
even if it's

829
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:00,750
is not actually being

830
00:25:00,750 --> 00:25:02,100
implemented in reality would

831
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:03,300
obviously be running the other

832
00:25:03,300 --> 00:25:04,770
way as quickly as they possibly

833
00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:05,970
could if Bill Gates were taking

834
00:25:05,970 --> 00:25:07,530
over, no, but Elon Musk is the

835
00:25:07,530 --> 00:25:09,960
cool billionaire who's, who's on

836
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,970
the good side. And I again, I

837
00:25:11,970 --> 00:25:13,230
think it's interesting to note

838
00:25:13,230 --> 00:25:14,970
that the the problems that

839
00:25:14,970 --> 00:25:16,260
neural link have had for for

840
00:25:16,260 --> 00:25:18,120
some time, I've been following

841
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:19,140
it and talking about it for a

842
00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:20,100
while now and trying to draw

843
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:22,290
attention to the to the the

844
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:23,610
things that we already knew

845
00:25:23,610 --> 00:25:25,140
about the grim results of the

846
00:25:25,140 --> 00:25:26,310
animal tests that studies at

847
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:27,960
neuro link. They've been out

848
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,910
there for several months now, at

849
00:25:29,910 --> 00:25:32,610
the very least, but very, very,

850
00:25:32,610 --> 00:25:34,890
very little coverage. Until now

851
00:25:34,890 --> 00:25:36,420
the Twitter files comes out. And

852
00:25:36,570 --> 00:25:39,360
as I say, the the sort of the

853
00:25:39,390 --> 00:25:41,310
the left side of the culture war

854
00:25:41,310 --> 00:25:42,690
and the establishment media have

855
00:25:42,690 --> 00:25:44,880
been activated against musk and

856
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,200
are now finally bringing

857
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,460
attention to stories like this

858
00:25:47,460 --> 00:25:48,810
and problems of Tesla and other

859
00:25:48,810 --> 00:25:50,970
such things. But of course, we

860
00:25:50,970 --> 00:25:52,110
have to keep in mind this sort

861
00:25:52,110 --> 00:25:54,450
of the bigger the bigger picture

862
00:25:54,450 --> 00:25:56,010
of what is going on here, which

863
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,330
again, we do not have to look

864
00:25:57,330 --> 00:25:58,890
back back very far for the the

865
00:25:58,890 --> 00:26:00,630
example of how this works. We we

866
00:26:00,630 --> 00:26:02,610
saw what happened during the

867
00:26:02,610 --> 00:26:05,070
Trump era, where suddenly the

868
00:26:05,070 --> 00:26:06,420
establishment media was very,

869
00:26:06,420 --> 00:26:07,950
very interested in holding

870
00:26:07,950 --> 00:26:09,300
politicians feet to the fire.

871
00:26:09,330 --> 00:26:10,470
Well, not politicians in

872
00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:11,460
general, essentially,

873
00:26:11,610 --> 00:26:12,870
essentially just Donald Trump.

874
00:26:13,170 --> 00:26:15,450
And we saw them go back to sleep

875
00:26:15,450 --> 00:26:16,890
dutifully once Joe Biden took

876
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,570
took over. So I think we're

877
00:26:18,570 --> 00:26:19,710
seeing the similar pattern

878
00:26:19,710 --> 00:26:21,000
playing out that Elon Musk,

879
00:26:21,090 --> 00:26:23,010
clearly, they're finally

880
00:26:23,010 --> 00:26:23,880
starting to do some

881
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,200
investigative reporting on these

882
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,190
companies and what they're doing

883
00:26:26,190 --> 00:26:27,870
but that will be interpreted by

884
00:26:27,870 --> 00:26:29,730
Musk supporters as look, the

885
00:26:29,730 --> 00:26:31,170
mainstream establishment media

886
00:26:31,170 --> 00:26:32,340
that lies about everything.

887
00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:33,510
Well, now they're lying about

888
00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:34,830
Musk because they don't like him

889
00:26:34,830 --> 00:26:35,970
and what he's doing to their,

890
00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:37,800
their, their that he's owning

891
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:38,790
the LIBS on Twitter.

892
00:26:40,140 --> 00:26:42,600
Oh, what an interesting state of

893
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,460
affairs. All right, so maybe we

894
00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:45,540
should go back to the the

895
00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:46,860
Twitter files itself for a

896
00:26:46,860 --> 00:26:49,110
second. So Mike, and we talked

897
00:26:49,140 --> 00:26:50,730
you talked earlier about the the

898
00:26:50,730 --> 00:26:54,420
curation issue and when I saw

899
00:26:54,420 --> 00:26:55,560
the the how this was being

900
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,720
rolled out. And you know, Matt

901
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,120
Taibbi was saying things like he

902
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,340
had to accept certain

903
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,740
restrictions in order to work on

904
00:27:04,770 --> 00:27:07,800
on the story. And all of this,

905
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,540
what came what really got my

906
00:27:09,540 --> 00:27:11,370
attention is that I think this

907
00:27:11,370 --> 00:27:14,610
is yet another step away from

908
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:17,310
well, sort of changing how the

909
00:27:17,310 --> 00:27:19,170
American public perceives the

910
00:27:19,170 --> 00:27:21,240
idea of quote unquote, leaks.

911
00:27:21,570 --> 00:27:23,760
You know, if you go back a

912
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,650
decade and or even less, really,

913
00:27:25,650 --> 00:27:26,970
you know, there was once upon a

914
00:27:26,970 --> 00:27:29,160
time the WikiLeaks era, which of

915
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,600
course, has sort of, I think,

916
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,740
moved out of sight and out of

917
00:27:31,740 --> 00:27:33,210
mind, for most Americans at this

918
00:27:33,210 --> 00:27:35,190
point where WikiLeaks didn't

919
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:36,810
really do so much curation.

920
00:27:37,950 --> 00:27:39,240
They would, you know, in the

921
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,830
case of a lot of the emails they

922
00:27:40,830 --> 00:27:41,940
released, and other documents,

923
00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:42,900
they they made searchable

924
00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:46,110
databases. And this, this change

925
00:27:46,110 --> 00:27:47,820
was, you know, something that we

926
00:27:47,820 --> 00:27:48,810
can talk about in a little bit,

927
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,220
the creation of the intercept

928
00:27:50,220 --> 00:27:51,600
and the owner of PayPal, Pierre

929
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,340
Omidyar, which, of course has a

930
00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:54,900
lot of parallels, in my opinion

931
00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:57,450
to the situation with the

932
00:27:57,450 --> 00:27:59,220
Twitter files. But since then,

933
00:27:59,250 --> 00:28:00,240
you know, you've had the

934
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,000
persecution of Julian Assange,

935
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,760
the dismantling of WikiLeaks as

936
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,170
an organization, and pretty much

937
00:28:07,170 --> 00:28:08,490
most of the quote unquote, leaks

938
00:28:08,490 --> 00:28:10,440
that have come out, since then

939
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,240
have not, you know, been handled

940
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,340
that way in service to, you

941
00:28:14,340 --> 00:28:15,840
know, greater transparency. It's

942
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:16,680
been mostly

943
00:28:17,790 --> 00:28:19,350
curated. And so in the case of

944
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:20,340
the intercept, right, you have

945
00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:22,110
the Snowden leaks, 90% of it

946
00:28:22,170 --> 00:28:24,570
isn't ever released. Right. And

947
00:28:24,570 --> 00:28:26,190
now you have, you know, claims

948
00:28:26,190 --> 00:28:29,040
after Jack Dorsey of the former,

949
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,150
you know, the co founder of

950
00:28:30,150 --> 00:28:31,680
Twitter and former head of it,

951
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:33,420
you know, steps in and asked

952
00:28:33,450 --> 00:28:35,340
Musk to release, you know, the

953
00:28:35,340 --> 00:28:37,140
full files and all of this,

954
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:38,880
which must says he'll do and

955
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,140
then subsequently, it's claimed

956
00:28:40,140 --> 00:28:41,010
that a lot of things were

957
00:28:41,010 --> 00:28:42,510
deleted as a disgruntled

958
00:28:42,510 --> 00:28:44,580
employee was leaving, how true

959
00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:46,230
that is, I don't know. But you

960
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:47,670
know, that we're getting these

961
00:28:47,670 --> 00:28:49,080
just screenshots and not

962
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,390
searchable files is interesting.

963
00:28:51,420 --> 00:28:52,950
And I think it's particularly

964
00:28:52,980 --> 00:28:54,180
interesting when you look at the

965
00:28:54,180 --> 00:28:54,990
situation.

966
00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:57,300
That was the focus of the

967
00:28:57,300 --> 00:28:58,890
earlier Twitter file releases,

968
00:28:58,890 --> 00:29:00,090
which is the censorship of the

969
00:29:00,090 --> 00:29:01,590
Hunter Biden laptop, of course,

970
00:29:01,590 --> 00:29:03,630
Hunter Biden being the very

971
00:29:03,630 --> 00:29:06,720
troubled SON OF US President Joe

972
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,240
Biden. So a lot was said about

973
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:10,650
the suppression of the laptop

974
00:29:10,650 --> 00:29:13,080
story and all of this, but very

975
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,780
little interest shown in Hmm,

976
00:29:16,110 --> 00:29:17,520
why would they suppress the

977
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,050
laptop? What's actually on the

978
00:29:19,050 --> 00:29:21,450
laptop? It turns out, not that

979
00:29:21,450 --> 00:29:22,980
long before the Twitter files

980
00:29:22,980 --> 00:29:25,170
came out, a nonprofit group

981
00:29:25,170 --> 00:29:27,780
called Marco Polo released a

982
00:29:27,780 --> 00:29:30,270
nearly 700 Page very detailed

983
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,490
report on exactly what is on the

984
00:29:32,490 --> 00:29:34,290
laptop and why it matters. Very

985
00:29:34,290 --> 00:29:35,220
interesting that that's been

986
00:29:35,310 --> 00:29:36,720
moved out of the Twitter files,

987
00:29:36,990 --> 00:29:38,490
almost entirely. It's like the

988
00:29:38,490 --> 00:29:41,880
story is almost entire is pretty

989
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,910
much on the suppression not on

990
00:29:44,940 --> 00:29:46,830
the content that was being

991
00:29:46,830 --> 00:29:48,360
suppressed. What are your

992
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,590
thoughts on that? Well,

993
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:51,840
actually, I will say that, I

994
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,040
guess mission accomplished for

995
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,660
the Twitter files because this

996
00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:56,460
is literally the first time I am

997
00:29:56,460 --> 00:29:58,020
hearing about this 700 page

998
00:29:58,020 --> 00:29:59,280
report which I will have to go

999
00:29:59,280 --> 00:29:59,970
out and download

1000
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,380
Now, so thank you for bringing

1001
00:30:01,380 --> 00:30:02,610
it to my attention. But it goes

1002
00:30:02,610 --> 00:30:05,250
to show just how thoroughly the

1003
00:30:05,250 --> 00:30:06,630
Twitter files brouhaha has

1004
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:09,030
displaced any actual examination

1005
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:11,220
of the underlying data that

1006
00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:12,780
we're supposedly talking about,

1007
00:30:12,930 --> 00:30:16,290
but not really, what absolutely

1008
00:30:16,290 --> 00:30:18,600
fascinating, isn't it? Okay, so

1009
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:19,830
you've raised some incredibly

1010
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:21,420
important points. And here's one

1011
00:30:21,420 --> 00:30:23,160
that has made me very unpopular

1012
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,420
among certain sectors of the

1013
00:30:24,420 --> 00:30:25,530
independent media space for a

1014
00:30:25,530 --> 00:30:27,480
long time is that I have always

1015
00:30:27,630 --> 00:30:30,210
acknowledged what what Zbigniew

1016
00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:32,220
Brzezinski said about the

1017
00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:33,690
WikiLeaks phenomenon at the time

1018
00:30:33,690 --> 00:30:34,800
that it was going on back in

1019
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,440
2010 11. He was giving an

1020
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,870
interview in which he opined

1021
00:30:40,170 --> 00:30:43,410
that the WikiLeaks organization

1022
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,890
is such a beautiful, wonderful

1023
00:30:46,890 --> 00:30:49,290
idea for intelligence agencies

1024
00:30:49,290 --> 00:30:50,880
to selectively leak information.

1025
00:30:51,690 --> 00:30:53,070
And I think the implication of

1026
00:30:53,070 --> 00:30:55,470
that is that it doesn't mean

1027
00:30:55,470 --> 00:30:57,120
necessarily that Julian Assange

1028
00:30:57,150 --> 00:30:58,650
is himself some sort of

1029
00:30:58,650 --> 00:31:00,660
intelligence agent who's who's

1030
00:31:00,870 --> 00:31:01,950
essentially laundering this

1031
00:31:01,950 --> 00:31:03,060
information out to the public.

1032
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,890
But he could be used by

1033
00:31:04,890 --> 00:31:06,000
intelligence agencies that

1034
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,620
selectively leak certain

1035
00:31:07,620 --> 00:31:09,240
documents. Oh, whoops, those

1036
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,860
documents got out. Well, other

1037
00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:12,150
documents remain suppressed.

1038
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,640
Now, that issue, I think, is a

1039
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,230
core issue of this entire

1040
00:31:16,530 --> 00:31:18,330
question about leaked documents

1041
00:31:18,330 --> 00:31:19,590
and what they what they do and

1042
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:21,450
don't tell us and how they are

1043
00:31:21,450 --> 00:31:23,760
interpreted. And who interprets

1044
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,620
them for us because, generally

1045
00:31:25,620 --> 00:31:27,300
speaking, we don't have direct

1046
00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:28,800
access to this sort of insider

1047
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,000
information that makes these

1048
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,580
documents understandable. Even

1049
00:31:32,580 --> 00:31:34,200
within the Twitter files we have

1050
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,450
to rely on on Barry Weiss and

1051
00:31:36,510 --> 00:31:37,680
Matt Taibbi and Michael

1052
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,210
Shellenberger and others to tell

1053
00:31:39,210 --> 00:31:40,710
us what some of this Twitter

1054
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:42,570
lingo the internal lingo means

1055
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:43,830
there was a bunch of acronyms

1056
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:45,600
and things PII and other things

1057
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,560
that I was learning about when

1058
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:47,400
reading through the Twitter

1059
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,680
files that, as they say, We have

1060
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,630
to talk to Twitter, current and

1061
00:31:51,630 --> 00:31:53,250
former employees to sort of

1062
00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:54,810
understand the context of this

1063
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,130
particular screenshot that we're

1064
00:31:56,130 --> 00:31:58,410
now showing you. So I think the

1065
00:31:58,410 --> 00:31:59,490
fundamental question when it

1066
00:31:59,490 --> 00:32:01,110
comes to these types of releases

1067
00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:02,700
is the question of the

1068
00:32:02,730 --> 00:32:04,080
bottleneck of information.

1069
00:32:04,350 --> 00:32:05,490
Obviously, we're not getting

1070
00:32:05,490 --> 00:32:07,650
everything. So who, and at what

1071
00:32:07,650 --> 00:32:09,330
point is that information being

1072
00:32:09,330 --> 00:32:11,400
withheld or suppressed, and then

1073
00:32:11,730 --> 00:32:13,890
once it is put forward in some

1074
00:32:13,890 --> 00:32:15,390
manner, then who is who is

1075
00:32:15,390 --> 00:32:17,070
interpreting that who is making

1076
00:32:17,070 --> 00:32:18,270
it sort of accessible to the

1077
00:32:18,270 --> 00:32:20,850
public innocence? And that was,

1078
00:32:20,940 --> 00:32:22,710
I think we saw the transitionary

1079
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:25,290
point of the WikiLeaks era of

1080
00:32:25,290 --> 00:32:26,940
the the leaking where it was, as

1081
00:32:26,940 --> 00:32:29,130
you say, large document dumps to

1082
00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:31,680
this highly cultivated curated

1083
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,270
era of the Twitter files. I

1084
00:32:33,270 --> 00:32:34,410
think the the middle point, the

1085
00:32:34,410 --> 00:32:35,820
nexus point was the Snowden

1086
00:32:36,030 --> 00:32:38,220
information, which as you allude

1087
00:32:38,220 --> 00:32:39,270
to, was,

1088
00:32:41,310 --> 00:32:43,590
according to Snowden himself was

1089
00:32:43,650 --> 00:32:45,630
consciously done in a way that

1090
00:32:45,630 --> 00:32:47,040
it wouldn't be curated by

1091
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,140
journalists. And they would

1092
00:32:49,140 --> 00:32:51,000
report on what they thought was

1093
00:32:51,420 --> 00:32:53,340
journalistically important, and

1094
00:32:53,340 --> 00:32:54,570
the documents themselves would

1095
00:32:54,570 --> 00:32:56,220
not be released. And that was

1096
00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:57,840
Snowden stipulation. And that

1097
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,160
was the way that he wanted that

1098
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,630
to go. And so he selected the

1099
00:33:00,630 --> 00:33:01,680
journalists and blah, blah,

1100
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:02,640
blah. I'm sure people are

1101
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:03,660
broadly familiar with that

1102
00:33:03,660 --> 00:33:04,980
story. But of course, what

1103
00:33:04,980 --> 00:33:06,450
ultimately resulted from that,

1104
00:33:06,540 --> 00:33:08,310
who ended up essentially getting

1105
00:33:08,340 --> 00:33:10,530
the cache of Snowden documents

1106
00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:12,810
was, as you say, Pierre Omidyar

1107
00:33:12,810 --> 00:33:15,060
and first look media, which

1108
00:33:15,090 --> 00:33:18,900
spawned the intercept. And I, as

1109
00:33:18,930 --> 00:33:20,310
as you say, I did reporting on

1110
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:21,990
it at the time how the intercept

1111
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:23,760
came together, and for people

1112
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,350
who don't know about the Omidyar

1113
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:27,060
Network, and its relationship

1114
00:33:27,060 --> 00:33:28,680
to, for example, funding

1115
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,570
Ukrainian protest movements back

1116
00:33:30,570 --> 00:33:32,520
during the the coup there, back

1117
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,560
in 2014, etc. I've done work on

1118
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,350
that before. But I think it's

1119
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:38,520
incredibly important to

1120
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:39,840
understand the way that that

1121
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,700
that cache of potentially

1122
00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:43,560
interesting information, again,

1123
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:44,730
I'd say there's probably a

1124
00:33:44,730 --> 00:33:46,800
bottleneck and who knows how

1125
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,060
much of that information is

1126
00:33:48,270 --> 00:33:49,320
seeded into the public

1127
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:50,460
consciousness on purpose. But

1128
00:33:50,460 --> 00:33:51,960
anyway, potentially interesting

1129
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,340
information, obviously kept

1130
00:33:53,460 --> 00:33:55,110
behind the closed wolves have a

1131
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:57,060
private organization like first

1132
00:33:57,060 --> 00:33:58,410
look, media, the intercept,

1133
00:33:58,530 --> 00:34:01,320
which was supposedly the core

1134
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,120
idea of the intercept, the core

1135
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,520
founding of it was to curate and

1136
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,200
report on the Snowden documents.

1137
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,700
That's the way it was sold to

1138
00:34:08,700 --> 00:34:11,310
the public. That's what sold and

1139
00:34:11,310 --> 00:34:12,510
it was a lot of hype.

1140
00:34:13,830 --> 00:34:15,450
You know, Glenn Greenwald, was

1141
00:34:15,450 --> 00:34:16,560
already kind of a celebrity

1142
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,450
journalist, but he became Ultra

1143
00:34:18,450 --> 00:34:20,550
celebrity. He was joined, of

1144
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:22,140
course by Laura Poitras, Jeremy

1145
00:34:22,140 --> 00:34:25,080
Scahill, and, you know, I mean,

1146
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,040
it was probably one of the

1147
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,570
biggest media events of that

1148
00:34:27,570 --> 00:34:30,180
particular period. A lot of

1149
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:31,350
interest, of course, in the

1150
00:34:31,350 --> 00:34:33,000
Snowden leaks, which the Snowden

1151
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,250
archive run by first look, media

1152
00:34:35,490 --> 00:34:37,110
was shut down a couple years

1153
00:34:37,110 --> 00:34:41,700
ago. So that 90% plus of the

1154
00:34:41,730 --> 00:34:44,400
documents will never be

1155
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,800
released, as far as we know, the

1156
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,540
Washington Post and I think one

1157
00:34:48,540 --> 00:34:49,890
other mainstream media outlet

1158
00:34:49,890 --> 00:34:51,660
received aspects of the cache

1159
00:34:51,660 --> 00:34:54,240
which I doubt they're going to

1160
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:56,730
release. But the the intercept

1161
00:34:56,910 --> 00:34:59,070
said it was too expensive at the

1162
00:34:59,070 --> 00:34:59,970
time and

1163
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,320
slubby in the shownotes. For

1164
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:02,670
those that are interested, I did

1165
00:35:02,670 --> 00:35:03,870
a report I was working for Matt

1166
00:35:03,870 --> 00:35:05,490
Preston news at the time about

1167
00:35:05,490 --> 00:35:07,350
how it's very, very unlikely

1168
00:35:07,410 --> 00:35:09,300
that cost was the real reason.

1169
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:10,830
As you mentioned, Pierre Omidyar

1170
00:35:10,830 --> 00:35:13,830
has ties to funding some very

1171
00:35:13,830 --> 00:35:16,650
suspect movements in pre coup

1172
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,850
2014. Ukraine, also heavily

1173
00:35:20,850 --> 00:35:22,830
funding USA ID and having other

1174
00:35:22,830 --> 00:35:24,420
ties to the national security

1175
00:35:24,420 --> 00:35:27,060
state. And it has been alleged

1176
00:35:27,090 --> 00:35:29,280
that aspects of the Snowden

1177
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:30,660
archive specifically some of the

1178
00:35:30,660 --> 00:35:33,270
documents not released, detailed

1179
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:36,180
how PayPal, which Omidyar has

1180
00:35:36,180 --> 00:35:37,230
been the owner of since the

1181
00:35:37,230 --> 00:35:39,360
early 2000s, buying it from musk

1182
00:35:39,630 --> 00:35:40,830
and Peele and CO

1183
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:43,950
people's relationship with

1184
00:35:43,950 --> 00:35:45,120
intelligence agencies, and

1185
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,730
presumably its role in illegal

1186
00:35:47,730 --> 00:35:49,230
mass surveillance, among other

1187
00:35:49,230 --> 00:35:50,460
things. I mean, of course,

1188
00:35:50,460 --> 00:35:51,960
people speculate but that seems,

1189
00:35:52,860 --> 00:35:54,600
you know, very plausible when

1190
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:55,770
you look at how this ultimately

1191
00:35:55,770 --> 00:35:58,200
played out, but, you know, going

1192
00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,910
back in time to about a decade

1193
00:35:59,910 --> 00:36:02,760
ago, Pierre Omidyar, not that

1194
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,470
differently from Elon Musk was

1195
00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:06,090
framing himself as a resolution

1196
00:36:06,090 --> 00:36:08,130
revolutionary guy who's going to

1197
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,140
you know, change journalism

1198
00:36:10,140 --> 00:36:11,940
forever. And that's not that

1199
00:36:11,940 --> 00:36:13,020
different point. Elon Musk is

1200
00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:14,250
doing what the Twitter files and

1201
00:36:14,250 --> 00:36:16,170
talking about how Twitter can be

1202
00:36:16,170 --> 00:36:17,820
a new place for journalism, and

1203
00:36:17,820 --> 00:36:18,840
it's decent, you know,

1204
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:20,700
decentralized journalism and all

1205
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:22,500
of this stuff. Pierre Omidyar

1206
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:24,180
back in, you know, he was

1207
00:36:24,180 --> 00:36:25,200
setting up the intercept that

1208
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,460
were puff pieces all about how

1209
00:36:26,460 --> 00:36:28,770
he wanted to find adversarial

1210
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,050
journalism, Glenn Greenwald.

1211
00:36:31,050 --> 00:36:32,310
And, you know, the other people

1212
00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:33,720
that signed on to first look,

1213
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:35,760
including Matt Taibbi himself

1214
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,700
actually talked about how there

1215
00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:40,890
was going to be no interference

1216
00:36:40,980 --> 00:36:42,300
from Pierre Omidyar and the

1217
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:43,770
stories they were writing,

1218
00:36:44,190 --> 00:36:46,290
things like that. Matt Taibbi

1219
00:36:46,290 --> 00:36:47,880
actually ended up leaving first

1220
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:49,920
look, I think within his first

1221
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,260
year there because of

1222
00:36:52,260 --> 00:36:54,450
disagreements with Omidyar but

1223
00:36:54,450 --> 00:36:55,830
Greenwald and CO went on

1224
00:36:55,830 --> 00:36:56,850
insisting that there was no

1225
00:36:56,850 --> 00:36:59,820
influence there. I disagreed

1226
00:36:59,820 --> 00:37:01,500
with that on more than a fair

1227
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:03,000
few fair occasions. Glenn

1228
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:04,530
Greenwald was not very nice to

1229
00:37:04,530 --> 00:37:06,690
me. But subsequently ended up

1230
00:37:06,690 --> 00:37:08,160
leaving the intercept because he

1231
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,620
said that there was censorship

1232
00:37:10,620 --> 00:37:11,880
and they weren't letting you

1233
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,950
know, they were influencing the

1234
00:37:13,950 --> 00:37:15,930
types of stories and what have

1235
00:37:15,930 --> 00:37:18,180
you. So I don't know. It seems

1236
00:37:18,180 --> 00:37:19,290
like Glenn Greenwald figured it

1237
00:37:19,290 --> 00:37:22,050
out at the end, ultimately, but

1238
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,670
you know, when it comes to the

1239
00:37:23,670 --> 00:37:25,140
intercept, I have a lot of

1240
00:37:25,140 --> 00:37:27,330
opinions. I guess probably

1241
00:37:27,330 --> 00:37:28,710
because I've written like eight

1242
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:31,200
articles on it, maybe more. And

1243
00:37:31,230 --> 00:37:33,390
one thing I, to me, it really

1244
00:37:33,390 --> 00:37:34,290
just seems like it was an

1245
00:37:34,290 --> 00:37:36,600
operation in a lot of ways. So

1246
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,470
you have, you know, Pierre

1247
00:37:37,470 --> 00:37:38,910
Omidyar being very well funded.

1248
00:37:38,910 --> 00:37:40,830
He's essentially sweeps in and

1249
00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:43,140
privatizes the Snowden leaks.

1250
00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:46,140
And before he is framed as this

1251
00:37:46,140 --> 00:37:47,490
revolutionary and does that

1252
00:37:47,490 --> 00:37:48,390
there are tweets of Pierre

1253
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:49,860
Omidyar is where he talks about

1254
00:37:50,130 --> 00:37:51,600
people who leaked documents to

1255
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:52,740
groups like WikiLeaks are

1256
00:37:52,740 --> 00:37:55,080
thieves and something needs to

1257
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,880
be done to help catch the thief.

1258
00:37:57,180 --> 00:37:58,980
Yeah, that he sets up the

1259
00:37:58,980 --> 00:38:00,000
intercept. And I'm sure you're

1260
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,800
familiar with this, James, in

1261
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,840
short order. Of course, with all

1262
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:05,190
the hype around Snowden and

1263
00:38:05,370 --> 00:38:07,740
secure drop the platform for

1264
00:38:07,740 --> 00:38:09,120
leakers to submit their

1265
00:38:09,150 --> 00:38:10,710
documents to the intercept that

1266
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:11,760
Snowden promotes.

1267
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,580
Three whistleblowers have gone

1268
00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:19,590
to prison for leaking to the

1269
00:38:19,590 --> 00:38:22,470
intercept. And in every of those

1270
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:24,300
three cases, it was

1271
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,720
either sloppy or allegedly

1272
00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:29,940
intentional act to out the

1273
00:38:29,940 --> 00:38:31,590
source and have them go to

1274
00:38:31,590 --> 00:38:33,900
prison. So those three would be

1275
00:38:33,900 --> 00:38:36,060
reality one or Terry Albery and

1276
00:38:36,060 --> 00:38:38,220
Daniel hail. So you know, if

1277
00:38:38,220 --> 00:38:39,210
you're looking at this down the

1278
00:38:39,210 --> 00:38:40,620
road, and then the closure of

1279
00:38:40,620 --> 00:38:41,790
the Snowden archive and all of

1280
00:38:41,790 --> 00:38:43,950
this, it really seems to me that

1281
00:38:43,950 --> 00:38:45,990
Pierre Omidyar was interested in

1282
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:48,270
creating a honeypot for would be

1283
00:38:48,270 --> 00:38:49,620
leakers, on behalf of his

1284
00:38:49,620 --> 00:38:51,030
friends on the national security

1285
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:52,770
state, while at the same time

1286
00:38:52,770 --> 00:38:54,720
privatizing leaks and being able

1287
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:56,280
to curate ones that were

1288
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,110
interesting, you know, enough to

1289
00:38:58,110 --> 00:38:59,580
the public, but you know, slow

1290
00:38:59,580 --> 00:39:01,590
down the pace gradually, and

1291
00:39:01,590 --> 00:39:03,510
create a media outlet with this

1292
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:05,610
hype around it, of it being

1293
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,730
adversarial, honest, independent

1294
00:39:08,970 --> 00:39:11,340
journalism, sticking it to the

1295
00:39:11,340 --> 00:39:13,560
man when in reality, it has not

1296
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:14,070
been that.

1297
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:17,190
I don't know if you have to add

1298
00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:18,630
to that. Well, I would venture

1299
00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:20,280
to say, I mean, ask the average

1300
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,260
person who actually reads the

1301
00:39:22,260 --> 00:39:24,330
intercept. And perhaps that's

1302
00:39:24,330 --> 00:39:25,800
already a small section of the

1303
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,030
public, but ask someone who

1304
00:39:27,060 --> 00:39:29,340
reads the intercept about it.

1305
00:39:29,340 --> 00:39:30,990
And I would imagine, the vast

1306
00:39:30,990 --> 00:39:32,430
majority of them, probably by

1307
00:39:32,430 --> 00:39:34,260
this point, don't even know that

1308
00:39:34,260 --> 00:39:36,030
this was supposedly originally

1309
00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:37,800
set up as the place for the

1310
00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:39,780
parsing and, and journalism

1311
00:39:39,810 --> 00:39:41,040
surrounding the Snowden files.

1312
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,890
It's obviously that it literally

1313
00:39:43,890 --> 00:39:45,060
closed the door on that several

1314
00:39:45,060 --> 00:39:47,190
years ago, officially, we're

1315
00:39:47,190 --> 00:39:48,600
done with the Snowden files.

1316
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,720
That's it. So it was it was a

1317
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:53,100
brilliant PR coup, I suppose

1318
00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:54,180
because it generally seemed to

1319
00:39:54,180 --> 00:39:56,130
work. Basically, all such

1320
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,350
reporting has stopped right now.

1321
00:39:58,350 --> 00:39:59,970
And as you say it private

1322
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,120
thises the, the notion the the

1323
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,540
idea of what a WikiLeaks or or

1324
00:40:06,540 --> 00:40:08,370
similar organization could be,

1325
00:40:08,550 --> 00:40:09,900
it has essentially turned it

1326
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:11,610
into the hands of a private

1327
00:40:11,610 --> 00:40:12,180
company that

1328
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,330
as again, anyone who looks into

1329
00:40:15,330 --> 00:40:16,740
Omidyar and the Omidyar Network

1330
00:40:16,740 --> 00:40:17,970
and its various connections will

1331
00:40:17,970 --> 00:40:19,980
know undoubtedly has connections

1332
00:40:19,980 --> 00:40:22,740
to the US, intelligence world.

1333
00:40:22,740 --> 00:40:24,960
And oh, by the way, speaking of

1334
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,160
which, as I'm sure you know,

1335
00:40:26,490 --> 00:40:27,960
Ellen McCloud, over at MintPress

1336
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:29,490
news has been doing reporting on

1337
00:40:29,490 --> 00:40:31,530
various intelligence officials

1338
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,230
at various of the social media

1339
00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:35,670
outlets, including, of course,

1340
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,370
Twitter, which has been infested

1341
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:41,280
by various intelligence agents,

1342
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,470
career intelligence officials,

1343
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,600
who then go on to in various

1344
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:46,770
positions in Twitter, and

1345
00:40:46,770 --> 00:40:48,720
there's no, no lack of examples

1346
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,100
of people along those lines that

1347
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:51,030
he's documented there at

1348
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:53,700
MintPress news. So again, it

1349
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:54,780
seems like the intelligence

1350
00:40:54,780 --> 00:40:56,280
agencies working hand in hand

1351
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,490
with these crusading NGO, slash

1352
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,080
philanthropy, entrepreneur

1353
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:02,490
capitalists, whatever, Elon

1354
00:41:02,490 --> 00:41:04,020
Musk's and people like that are

1355
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,840
read consolidating information.

1356
00:41:07,140 --> 00:41:09,390
And I suppose maybe it's beside

1357
00:41:09,390 --> 00:41:10,020
the main point of our

1358
00:41:10,020 --> 00:41:11,280
conversation today. But I do

1359
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,380
find it absolutely horrifying to

1360
00:41:13,380 --> 00:41:15,120
think that Twitter really does

1361
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,320
represent the future of

1362
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,290
journalism. Because the confines

1363
00:41:19,290 --> 00:41:22,110
of the 280 character, little

1364
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:24,000
soundbite of a soundbite

1365
00:41:24,030 --> 00:41:26,460
essentially, reporting that's

1366
00:41:26,460 --> 00:41:27,480
then broken up into these

1367
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,730
threads. It's it's a it's a

1368
00:41:29,730 --> 00:41:30,990
horrible way of conveying

1369
00:41:30,990 --> 00:41:32,370
information. And I point to one

1370
00:41:32,370 --> 00:41:33,660
example from the Twitter files

1371
00:41:33,660 --> 00:41:36,090
itself. As if my memory serves,

1372
00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:37,170
it was in the first Twitter

1373
00:41:37,170 --> 00:41:38,910
files thread on that Matt Taibbi

1374
00:41:38,910 --> 00:41:40,140
did where he made a statement

1375
00:41:40,170 --> 00:41:43,020
about there is no evidence they

1376
00:41:43,020 --> 00:41:44,490
have seen no evidence linking

1377
00:41:44,490 --> 00:41:46,500
this to an interference by

1378
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:47,910
government or something along

1379
00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:50,430
those lines. And that particular

1380
00:41:50,430 --> 00:41:52,710
statement was caught on and and

1381
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:54,810
became this this big way of

1382
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,610
basically allowing people to

1383
00:41:56,610 --> 00:41:57,600
shrug their shoulders about the

1384
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:58,890
Twitter files, Oh, whatever. I

1385
00:41:58,890 --> 00:42:00,420
mean, they say there's not even

1386
00:42:00,420 --> 00:42:01,530
any government interference. So

1387
00:42:01,530 --> 00:42:03,570
what's the big deal? My reading

1388
00:42:03,570 --> 00:42:05,520
of that is that Matt Taibbi was

1389
00:42:05,610 --> 00:42:06,840
essentially saying there's no

1390
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,150
evidence that there was Russian

1391
00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:10,380
government sponsorship,

1392
00:42:10,380 --> 00:42:12,000
essentially, of the Hunter Biden

1393
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,100
laptop story, that that that

1394
00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:15,030
connection, the foreign

1395
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:16,080
government connection was not,

1396
00:42:16,170 --> 00:42:17,910
but because of the confines of

1397
00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:19,650
the 280 characters, I believe

1398
00:42:19,650 --> 00:42:21,660
that message became mangled and

1399
00:42:21,660 --> 00:42:22,950
then got misinterpreted and mis

1400
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:25,140
reported. And that's the kind of

1401
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,150
world we're stepping into when

1402
00:42:27,150 --> 00:42:28,590
we start thinking that oh, you

1403
00:42:28,590 --> 00:42:30,090
know, these Twitter threads are

1404
00:42:30,090 --> 00:42:32,010
going to be the, the deep dive

1405
00:42:32,010 --> 00:42:33,600
journalism of the future. Can

1406
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,070
you imagine Whitney putting

1407
00:42:35,340 --> 00:42:36,540
something like one nation under

1408
00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:38,340
blackmail? Twitter thread form?

1409
00:42:38,340 --> 00:42:39,780
How many millions of tweets

1410
00:42:39,780 --> 00:42:41,700
would that take? Oh, no one read

1411
00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:43,830
it? Well, I think, you know, you

1412
00:42:43,830 --> 00:42:45,600
think about like, 1984 and stuff

1413
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:46,590
like that, how they talk about

1414
00:42:46,590 --> 00:42:47,970
how they manipulated and changed

1415
00:42:47,970 --> 00:42:49,500
language to like, dumb it down.

1416
00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:51,690
And, like, cheapen it, I think,

1417
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:53,340
you know, reducing, you know,

1418
00:42:53,370 --> 00:42:54,990
leaks driven journalism, which

1419
00:42:54,990 --> 00:42:56,280
generates a lot of attention,

1420
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:57,360
because the leaks is, you know,

1421
00:42:57,570 --> 00:43:00,420
the hidden to the unhidden. You

1422
00:43:00,420 --> 00:43:01,800
know, a lot of people are

1423
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:02,940
interested in it just for that

1424
00:43:02,940 --> 00:43:04,680
reason, like it's secrets being

1425
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:07,890
aired out, right. And what you

1426
00:43:07,890 --> 00:43:10,410
have here is, you know, that

1427
00:43:10,410 --> 00:43:12,270
hype, but it's, you know, this

1428
00:43:12,270 --> 00:43:14,070
is what journalism looks like.

1429
00:43:14,070 --> 00:43:15,300
Now, this is the cutting edge

1430
00:43:15,300 --> 00:43:17,820
stuff. And, you know, as someone

1431
00:43:17,820 --> 00:43:19,650
who writes very long articles, I

1432
00:43:19,650 --> 00:43:21,210
do not think that Twitter

1433
00:43:21,210 --> 00:43:23,280
threads, future of journalism.

1434
00:43:23,580 --> 00:43:25,380
And if that is the move being,

1435
00:43:25,410 --> 00:43:27,360
you know, made here, I think

1436
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:28,500
it's a little unsettling, but I

1437
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:29,880
think there's a bit more to it

1438
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,740
as well. For example, Barry

1439
00:43:31,740 --> 00:43:32,940
Weiss, one of the journalists

1440
00:43:32,940 --> 00:43:34,290
who was handpicked by Moscow to

1441
00:43:34,290 --> 00:43:35,550
be sort of the one of the

1442
00:43:35,550 --> 00:43:38,160
interpreters and publishers of

1443
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,190
Twitter file threads. She

1444
00:43:41,220 --> 00:43:43,020
coincided her participation in

1445
00:43:43,020 --> 00:43:43,890
the Twitter files with the

1446
00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:46,800
launch of her new news outlet,

1447
00:43:46,830 --> 00:43:48,840
which is called the Free Press.

1448
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,130
If you're familiar with Barry

1449
00:43:50,130 --> 00:43:51,360
Weiss, his background, at least

1450
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:52,650
people my audience, I don't

1451
00:43:52,650 --> 00:43:55,200
think people will expect her to

1452
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,360
necessarily be objective, at

1453
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,940
least not on certain topics. I

1454
00:43:59,940 --> 00:44:01,050
think actually independent

1455
00:44:01,050 --> 00:44:02,700
media, she became most notorious

1456
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:03,780
for her meltdown on the Joe

1457
00:44:03,780 --> 00:44:05,220
Rogan podcast where she called

1458
00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:06,750
Tulsi Gabbard, who, you know,

1459
00:44:06,750 --> 00:44:08,010
I'm certainly not a, you know,

1460
00:44:08,010 --> 00:44:09,300
she's another young global

1461
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:10,530
leader who lies about it,

1462
00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:12,990
actually, but, you know, she was

1463
00:44:13,260 --> 00:44:14,880
called an Assad toady that is

1464
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,770
not by Barry Weiss. That is not

1465
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,300
a fair assessment of Tulsi

1466
00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:20,220
Gabbard 's views on Syria or and

1467
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:21,330
then couldn't define Toady.

1468
00:44:22,110 --> 00:44:23,700
Yeah, she couldn't define any of

1469
00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:25,770
this. She had no evidence for

1470
00:44:25,770 --> 00:44:27,540
it. And obviously, she's not an

1471
00:44:27,540 --> 00:44:28,740
objective reporter. And that's

1472
00:44:28,740 --> 00:44:30,000
especially true when it comes to

1473
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,190
issues of Zionism, Palestine and

1474
00:44:32,190 --> 00:44:34,110
Israel, where she's even

1475
00:44:34,110 --> 00:44:35,610
accused, you know, anti Zionist

1476
00:44:35,610 --> 00:44:37,860
Jews of of anti semitism and her

1477
00:44:37,860 --> 00:44:40,380
book, How to combat anti

1478
00:44:40,380 --> 00:44:42,030
semitism, or it's called

1479
00:44:42,030 --> 00:44:44,340
something like that. She calls

1480
00:44:44,670 --> 00:44:46,560
anti Zionist Jews part of a long

1481
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,420
history of left wing, anti

1482
00:44:48,420 --> 00:44:49,560
semitic movements that

1483
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,150
successfully conscript Jews as

1484
00:44:51,180 --> 00:44:53,220
agents in their own destruction

1485
00:44:53,220 --> 00:44:55,500
and quote, so, you know, there's

1486
00:44:55,590 --> 00:44:57,600
a lot to say about censorship of

1487
00:44:57,630 --> 00:44:59,580
Palestinians on social media

1488
00:44:59,580 --> 00:45:00,000
include

1489
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,220
and Twitter. But I, you know,

1490
00:45:02,250 --> 00:45:03,360
I'd venture to guess that that

1491
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:04,740
won't be covered by the Twitter

1492
00:45:04,740 --> 00:45:07,830
files. That's just a guess here.

1493
00:45:08,340 --> 00:45:11,070
So again, it's interesting that

1494
00:45:11,070 --> 00:45:12,480
her particular outlet is being

1495
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:13,890
promoted at the same time

1496
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:16,500
with people that are, you know,

1497
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:18,690
of the same mold of, I guess,

1498
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:21,300
journalist as she is. And, you

1499
00:45:21,300 --> 00:45:23,460
know, I'm personally not a fan.

1500
00:45:23,940 --> 00:45:26,880
Just be pretty open about that.

1501
00:45:26,910 --> 00:45:29,160
And I'm, you know, we're in

1502
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,090
talking about the parallels

1503
00:45:30,090 --> 00:45:31,590
between what's going on here and

1504
00:45:31,620 --> 00:45:34,800
the the intercept, the intercept

1505
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:35,820
when it was launched, made

1506
00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:37,590
celebrities out of people like

1507
00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:39,510
Jeremy Scahill, and Laura

1508
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:42,120
Poitras, and Glenn Greenwald,

1509
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,880
and sort of put them above

1510
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,250
reproach for some people. I

1511
00:45:47,250 --> 00:45:49,380
don't really think that's fair.

1512
00:45:50,730 --> 00:45:52,110
For you know, reasons I've

1513
00:45:52,110 --> 00:45:53,220
talked about over the years, and

1514
00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:54,420
of course, people can go back

1515
00:45:54,420 --> 00:45:55,440
and look at some of my Twitter

1516
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:56,700
exchanges with Glenn Greenwald

1517
00:45:56,700 --> 00:45:59,010
were and I criticize Pierre

1518
00:45:59,010 --> 00:46:01,050
Omidyar, and he tells me that

1519
00:46:01,050 --> 00:46:02,580
I'm a liar and belong in a

1520
00:46:02,580 --> 00:46:04,440
mental hospital, you know, about

1521
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,000
a year or two before he says the

1522
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,540
same thing. So, um, you know,

1523
00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:12,450
again, and we're having Taiyi

1524
00:46:12,450 --> 00:46:14,760
and Weiss being elevated here.

1525
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:17,370
And it's, it's interesting. You

1526
00:46:17,370 --> 00:46:18,870
mentioned earlier how Elon Musk,

1527
00:46:18,900 --> 00:46:20,070
you know, previously was sort of

1528
00:46:20,070 --> 00:46:23,760
a a darling of people left

1529
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:25,350
leaning, because Tesla's you

1530
00:46:25,350 --> 00:46:27,420
know, AOC has a Tesla and stuff,

1531
00:46:27,420 --> 00:46:29,250
right, and was sort of, you

1532
00:46:29,250 --> 00:46:31,770
know, seen as being more popular

1533
00:46:31,770 --> 00:46:32,850
on that side of the political

1534
00:46:32,850 --> 00:46:34,470
divide until sort of his recent

1535
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,450
change. And so I think that's

1536
00:46:36,450 --> 00:46:37,830
kind of fair to say for people

1537
00:46:37,830 --> 00:46:39,300
like Glenn Greenwald in and Matt

1538
00:46:39,300 --> 00:46:43,170
Taibbi as well. Anyone who has

1539
00:46:43,170 --> 00:46:45,360
followed the development of of

1540
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,190
Greenwald and anti abuse, public

1541
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:50,010
reputation will know it was

1542
00:46:50,010 --> 00:46:51,270
interesting to watch, I must

1543
00:46:51,270 --> 00:46:52,470
admit, just from a popcorn

1544
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:54,300
perspective, five or six years

1545
00:46:54,300 --> 00:46:56,250
ago, when they started to talk

1546
00:46:56,250 --> 00:46:57,420
about for example, Russia gate

1547
00:46:57,420 --> 00:46:58,800
and obviously not going along

1548
00:46:58,800 --> 00:46:59,850
with the establishment message

1549
00:46:59,850 --> 00:47:02,760
on that and the to see their own

1550
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,170
audience attacking them so

1551
00:47:04,170 --> 00:47:06,270
vociferously because this is not

1552
00:47:06,270 --> 00:47:07,980
the message guys. So yeah,

1553
00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:09,450
clearly is the creation of

1554
00:47:09,450 --> 00:47:12,420
public personas. And these

1555
00:47:12,420 --> 00:47:13,650
people have demonstrated their

1556
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:14,880
ability to be essentially

1557
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:15,510
chameleons.

1558
00:47:17,070 --> 00:47:19,230
Greenwald starting out being pro

1559
00:47:19,230 --> 00:47:21,330
Iraq War. But people probably

1560
00:47:21,330 --> 00:47:22,710
don't remember that way back in

1561
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:23,730
the day when he first started

1562
00:47:23,730 --> 00:47:24,180
blogging.

1563
00:47:25,290 --> 00:47:27,420
Having renounced that, several

1564
00:47:27,420 --> 00:47:28,830
years later, when he transformed

1565
00:47:28,830 --> 00:47:31,170
into the crusading left wing

1566
00:47:31,170 --> 00:47:32,880
journalist of the Guardian, and

1567
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,350
then various other outlets in

1568
00:47:34,350 --> 00:47:36,450
the United States, right. And

1569
00:47:36,570 --> 00:47:38,610
then now doing this other

1570
00:47:38,610 --> 00:47:40,620
transformation through the after

1571
00:47:40,620 --> 00:47:41,850
the intercept, and then into

1572
00:47:41,850 --> 00:47:44,910
this Russia gate era, and now

1573
00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:47,250
being whatever he is today. And

1574
00:47:47,250 --> 00:47:48,870
I think Matt Taibbi along for

1575
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:51,480
much of that same ride. So I

1576
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:52,950
think it is about public

1577
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:54,210
perception and creation of

1578
00:47:54,210 --> 00:47:56,040
public persona and playing on

1579
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:57,900
that. And clearly, again, it

1580
00:47:57,900 --> 00:47:59,910
keeps circling back to this sort

1581
00:47:59,910 --> 00:48:02,040
of divide in the public opinion,

1582
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:03,390
there is a culture war that is

1583
00:48:03,390 --> 00:48:06,930
taking place that clearly people

1584
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,780
are are looking for people to be

1585
00:48:09,780 --> 00:48:12,030
on their team. And I think most

1586
00:48:12,030 --> 00:48:13,170
people will accept someone

1587
00:48:13,170 --> 00:48:14,670
simply saying, Hey, guys, I'm on

1588
00:48:14,670 --> 00:48:15,930
your team or making the right

1589
00:48:15,930 --> 00:48:17,460
kind of signals that I'm on your

1590
00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:19,350
team is essentially enough for

1591
00:48:19,350 --> 00:48:20,340
them to turn off the critical

1592
00:48:20,340 --> 00:48:22,230
thinking faculty and no better

1593
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:23,760
example of that than Elon Musk,

1594
00:48:23,820 --> 00:48:24,990
who went from the darling of the

1595
00:48:24,990 --> 00:48:26,220
left to the darling of the

1596
00:48:26,220 --> 00:48:28,140
right. And I think shouldn't be

1597
00:48:28,140 --> 00:48:29,550
the darling of anyone given the

1598
00:48:29,550 --> 00:48:30,450
sorts of things he's been

1599
00:48:30,450 --> 00:48:32,490
involved in. Yeah, well, I

1600
00:48:32,490 --> 00:48:33,750
think, you know, not unlike

1601
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:34,590
Trump, what you mentioned

1602
00:48:34,590 --> 00:48:35,820
earlier, made some comparisons

1603
00:48:35,820 --> 00:48:38,400
about Elon, too. I think he's

1604
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,080
most Elon Musk is most

1605
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:41,760
interested in Elon Musk, right

1606
00:48:41,790 --> 00:48:44,010
and promoting Elon Musk and Elon

1607
00:48:44,010 --> 00:48:46,830
Musk image, if you ask me. So I

1608
00:48:46,830 --> 00:48:48,720
think there's a specific reason

1609
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:50,640
why Elon Musk picked Tybee and

1610
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,130
Weiss? I'm not sure exactly what

1611
00:48:53,130 --> 00:48:56,700
that is. But, you know, I, I

1612
00:48:56,700 --> 00:48:57,870
think it's pretty telling when

1613
00:48:57,870 --> 00:48:59,100
you consider sort of what we've

1614
00:48:59,100 --> 00:49:00,270
talked about earlier that Musk

1615
00:49:00,270 --> 00:49:01,980
has a very specific reason for

1616
00:49:01,980 --> 00:49:04,080
doing all of this. And

1617
00:49:04,110 --> 00:49:05,790
presumably he has picked these

1618
00:49:05,790 --> 00:49:07,230
two people because of their

1619
00:49:08,490 --> 00:49:10,230
associations and I guess

1620
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:11,730
perceptions among at least some

1621
00:49:11,730 --> 00:49:13,110
people that they're anti

1622
00:49:13,110 --> 00:49:16,140
establishment. So, you know, in

1623
00:49:16,140 --> 00:49:18,300
tyese case, who journalistically

1624
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:20,550
I think is far superior to Barry

1625
00:49:20,550 --> 00:49:22,050
Weiss, who's technically an

1626
00:49:22,050 --> 00:49:24,900
opinion writer, Matt Taibbi has

1627
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:26,430
done some really good articles

1628
00:49:26,430 --> 00:49:27,540
over the years, I think he was

1629
00:49:27,540 --> 00:49:28,890
actually one of the few people

1630
00:49:28,890 --> 00:49:29,940
in mainstream or at least

1631
00:49:29,940 --> 00:49:31,380
mainstream adjacent media to

1632
00:49:31,380 --> 00:49:33,990
cover FASEB 56, which was a

1633
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:36,060
policy that's really insane

1634
00:49:36,060 --> 00:49:37,080
where basically government

1635
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:38,460
agencies can have public and

1636
00:49:38,460 --> 00:49:40,620
private budgets so they can

1637
00:49:40,620 --> 00:49:42,600
basically you know, put one

1638
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:43,800
version of the budget out there

1639
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:44,940
and then have a private one and

1640
00:49:44,940 --> 00:49:46,170
like cook the books and do all

1641
00:49:46,170 --> 00:49:48,900
sorts of sane financial, crazy

1642
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:50,010
stuff they shouldn't be allowed

1643
00:49:50,010 --> 00:49:53,850
to do. But having said that, um,

1644
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,410
you know, there are certain it's

1645
00:49:55,410 --> 00:49:56,520
very clear, if you look at Matt

1646
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,530
tyese journalism, there's some

1647
00:49:58,530 --> 00:49:59,970
topics he does not like to do.

1648
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,010
at all, and it's very different

1649
00:50:02,010 --> 00:50:02,820
than someone like Glenn

1650
00:50:02,820 --> 00:50:04,200
Greenwald, for example, Glenn

1651
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,640
Greenwald has a lot of

1652
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,170
similarities to Matt Diaby, but

1653
00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:09,150
when pushed on things like 911,

1654
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,460
and other issues like that, he

1655
00:50:11,460 --> 00:50:13,170
said, essentially, you have to

1656
00:50:13,170 --> 00:50:14,640
pick and choose what you cover,

1657
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:15,840
like if you want to be taken

1658
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,450
seriously. So, you know, I've

1659
00:50:18,450 --> 00:50:19,950
noticed that with people who are

1660
00:50:19,980 --> 00:50:23,190
mainly strive to have them brand

1661
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:24,780
wise, be mainstream media

1662
00:50:24,810 --> 00:50:26,610
adjacent, that they won't cover

1663
00:50:26,610 --> 00:50:28,410
those types of issues. Yeah. So

1664
00:50:28,410 --> 00:50:29,970
Matt Taibbi, instead of ignoring

1665
00:50:29,970 --> 00:50:30,930
those issues,

1666
00:50:32,010 --> 00:50:33,420
as a career move

1667
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,630
over the last several decades at

1668
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:38,400
this point, has made it a point

1669
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,740
to ridicule people. So he's not

1670
00:50:40,740 --> 00:50:42,390
just ignoring issues like, you

1671
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:44,250
know, September 11. He

1672
00:50:44,250 --> 00:50:45,540
intentionally ridicules people

1673
00:50:45,540 --> 00:50:46,770
who don't believe the official

1674
00:50:46,770 --> 00:50:48,930
story. And the most recent of

1675
00:50:48,930 --> 00:50:49,860
these, well, he's done it on

1676
00:50:49,860 --> 00:50:51,180
Twitter as recently as a few

1677
00:50:51,180 --> 00:50:51,810
months ago,

1678
00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:54,090
making fun of anyone who

1679
00:50:54,090 --> 00:50:55,530
identifies himself as a quote

1680
00:50:55,530 --> 00:50:58,200
unquote truther. But in a 2019

1681
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,300
article for Rolling Stone. It's

1682
00:51:00,330 --> 00:51:02,880
the subtitle is why conspiracy

1683
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,370
theories won't die. I'll just

1684
00:51:05,370 --> 00:51:06,600
read a quick quote from it. He

1685
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,240
says, The old quote unquote

1686
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:11,610
physical impossibility saw is a

1687
00:51:11,610 --> 00:51:13,380
nervous tic found in a lot of

1688
00:51:13,380 --> 00:51:15,000
the trashiest American

1689
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,010
conspiracy tales, only

1690
00:51:17,010 --> 00:51:18,510
controlled demolition cause

1691
00:51:18,510 --> 00:51:20,970
building seven to freefall, on

1692
00:51:20,970 --> 00:51:22,800
September 11. And he says, Look

1693
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:23,970
at the fatal headshot that

1694
00:51:23,970 --> 00:51:25,260
killed Kennedy, it's back into

1695
00:51:25,260 --> 00:51:27,270
the left the wrong way. If Lee

1696
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:28,740
Harvey Oswald was shooting it.

1697
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,350
So you know, he's calling people

1698
00:51:31,350 --> 00:51:33,270
that don't believe in a lone

1699
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:34,620
wolf shooter, which is now

1700
00:51:34,650 --> 00:51:36,000
according to polls, actually, a

1701
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,070
majority of Americans don't

1702
00:51:38,070 --> 00:51:39,540
think Lee Harvey Oswald was

1703
00:51:40,140 --> 00:51:42,960
acting alone, right? So if you

1704
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,040
believe that you're believing a

1705
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:45,990
trashy American conspiracy tale,

1706
00:51:46,260 --> 00:51:48,660
or if you think 911 fell into

1707
00:51:48,660 --> 00:51:49,740
its own footprint in seven

1708
00:51:49,740 --> 00:51:51,090
seconds. So because of

1709
00:51:51,300 --> 00:51:53,130
uncontrolled office fires, even

1710
00:51:53,130 --> 00:51:54,240
though there's a University of

1711
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:56,670
Alaska study that demolishes the

1712
00:51:56,700 --> 00:52:00,570
nest Googly Guk. Narrative, or

1713
00:52:00,570 --> 00:52:02,280
report that claims to show it

1714
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:03,480
was office fires, you know,

1715
00:52:04,260 --> 00:52:04,950
you're

1716
00:52:06,030 --> 00:52:08,580
not very smart. So it's it's

1717
00:52:08,580 --> 00:52:10,770
troubling, and probably the most

1718
00:52:10,770 --> 00:52:11,940
troubling of all goes back to

1719
00:52:11,940 --> 00:52:13,830
some of his early work, where he

1720
00:52:13,830 --> 00:52:16,680
calls he says the 911 truth

1721
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,480
movement makes the left behind

1722
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:20,310
Sci Fi series which is like

1723
00:52:20,310 --> 00:52:21,900
Christian apocalyptic

1724
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,740
stuff, says it makes it like

1725
00:52:25,740 --> 00:52:29,310
Shakespeare, and he calls people

1726
00:52:29,310 --> 00:52:33,060
clinically insane 911 conspiracy

1727
00:52:33,060 --> 00:52:35,550
theorists and his his gripes

1728
00:52:35,550 --> 00:52:37,560
with the 911 truth movement,

1729
00:52:37,590 --> 00:52:38,670
according to him,

1730
00:52:40,050 --> 00:52:41,580
where he goes, it's a lot of ad

1731
00:52:41,580 --> 00:52:44,550
hominem about people like Jason

1732
00:52:44,550 --> 00:52:46,170
burr mess and Dylan Avery,

1733
00:52:46,830 --> 00:52:48,210
calling them quote unquote, Dick

1734
00:52:48,210 --> 00:52:50,640
wads, among other things, and he

1735
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:51,150
says

1736
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,360
911 conspiracy theory is so

1737
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,400
shamefully stupid. It's the

1738
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,200
lowest form of conspiracy

1739
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,450
theory, because it doesn't offer

1740
00:53:00,450 --> 00:53:01,980
an affirmative theory of the

1741
00:53:01,980 --> 00:53:03,870
crime. And basically, his whole

1742
00:53:03,870 --> 00:53:07,170
takedown of 911. Truth has

1743
00:53:07,170 --> 00:53:09,780
nothing to do with refuting

1744
00:53:09,810 --> 00:53:11,790
evidence offered by the truth

1745
00:53:11,790 --> 00:53:13,410
movement. Instead, it's

1746
00:53:13,410 --> 00:53:14,940
basically here's the silly

1747
00:53:14,940 --> 00:53:16,410
dialogue of what I imagined

1748
00:53:16,410 --> 00:53:17,850
Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney would

1749
00:53:17,850 --> 00:53:19,920
have planned if the 911 truthers

1750
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,660
were right. So it's a very

1751
00:53:21,660 --> 00:53:24,180
dishonest engagement with the

1752
00:53:24,180 --> 00:53:27,270
information in my opinion. And

1753
00:53:27,300 --> 00:53:28,590
you know, it's not what you

1754
00:53:28,590 --> 00:53:31,590
would do if you were interested

1755
00:53:31,590 --> 00:53:34,380
in getting to the truth of

1756
00:53:34,380 --> 00:53:35,580
things. I don't know. I think at

1757
00:53:35,580 --> 00:53:36,780
this point, you even have people

1758
00:53:36,780 --> 00:53:38,310
that shared the 911 Commission

1759
00:53:38,310 --> 00:53:41,190
say, the official story, the 911

1760
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:42,420
Commission report is full of

1761
00:53:42,420 --> 00:53:43,860
holes and unanswered question

1762
00:53:43,860 --> 00:53:45,630
that they were stonewalled, etc.

1763
00:53:45,870 --> 00:53:48,330
So, you know, is it really fair

1764
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,700
to call people that question,

1765
00:53:50,700 --> 00:53:51,840
the official narrative, you

1766
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,270
know, you know, trash and

1767
00:53:54,270 --> 00:53:56,370
hopelessly stupid and all this

1768
00:53:56,370 --> 00:53:58,740
nasty ad hominem? I don't know.

1769
00:53:59,340 --> 00:54:00,750
Do you have any thoughts, James?

1770
00:54:00,990 --> 00:54:03,750
I do. Indeed. I recalled.

1771
00:54:04,380 --> 00:54:05,730
Probably over a decade and a

1772
00:54:05,730 --> 00:54:06,930
half ago at this point, there

1773
00:54:06,930 --> 00:54:09,120
was a correspondence that went

1774
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:10,560
on between Matt Taibbi and David

1775
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:12,060
Ray Griffin that people can look

1776
00:54:12,060 --> 00:54:14,250
up. And clearly at that point, I

1777
00:54:14,250 --> 00:54:15,330
think it was quite apparent that

1778
00:54:15,330 --> 00:54:16,920
Toby was never ever going to

1779
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:18,810
entertain any, quote unquote,

1780
00:54:18,810 --> 00:54:20,220
conspiracy theories about

1781
00:54:20,220 --> 00:54:22,560
September 11, exactly as bush

1782
00:54:22,650 --> 00:54:24,450
warned us against in his speech

1783
00:54:24,450 --> 00:54:28,140
to the UN. But I actually have

1784
00:54:28,140 --> 00:54:29,940
my own experience interacting

1785
00:54:29,940 --> 00:54:32,220
with Glenn Greenwald. Also I do

1786
00:54:32,220 --> 00:54:33,570
recall at the time where I was

1787
00:54:33,570 --> 00:54:35,040
doing that reporting on Omidyar

1788
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:36,180
and first look and what have

1789
00:54:36,180 --> 00:54:37,920
you, I got into a Twitter

1790
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,510
exchange with him because I was

1791
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:41,160
on Twitter at that point. I am

1792
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:42,450
no longer in case anyone out

1793
00:54:42,450 --> 00:54:43,380
there in your audience doesn't

1794
00:54:43,380 --> 00:54:46,350
know that. But I did get into a

1795
00:54:46,350 --> 00:54:47,370
Twitter exchange with him in

1796
00:54:47,370 --> 00:54:49,230
which after a few back and

1797
00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:51,690
forth, he ended up apparently

1798
00:54:51,690 --> 00:54:54,030
going through my archives He

1799
00:54:54,030 --> 00:54:55,110
must have gone pretty deep

1800
00:54:55,110 --> 00:54:56,970
because he ended up pulling up a

1801
00:54:57,180 --> 00:54:58,680
YouTube clip that someone had

1802
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:00,000
made of some one of

1803
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:01,770
My podcast episodes that at that

1804
00:55:01,770 --> 00:55:03,330
point was probably three or four

1805
00:55:03,330 --> 00:55:06,330
years old that he dug up as oh

1806
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:07,830
look, this guy is talking about

1807
00:55:07,890 --> 00:55:09,990
Stratospheric Aerosol injection.

1808
00:55:10,740 --> 00:55:11,580
And oh, he's one of those

1809
00:55:11,580 --> 00:55:13,140
chemtrails, Kooks or something

1810
00:55:13,140 --> 00:55:14,130
along those lines before

1811
00:55:14,130 --> 00:55:16,320
blocking me. So that's, that's

1812
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:17,640
the type of Glenn Greenwald that

1813
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:19,140
that was involved in this. And

1814
00:55:19,140 --> 00:55:20,790
yes, then Matt Taibbi is, I

1815
00:55:20,790 --> 00:55:22,470
think, a chip off of the same

1816
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:22,980
block.

1817
00:55:25,140 --> 00:55:27,210
Again, it's not to say that none

1818
00:55:27,210 --> 00:55:29,460
of their work is of of any

1819
00:55:29,490 --> 00:55:32,460
utility some of it is. But it I

1820
00:55:32,460 --> 00:55:33,450
think people have to become

1821
00:55:33,450 --> 00:55:35,550
discerning as to whether they're

1822
00:55:35,550 --> 00:55:36,990
simply going to believe someone

1823
00:55:36,990 --> 00:55:39,090
based on their public reputation

1824
00:55:39,090 --> 00:55:41,010
of oh, this is a, this is a cool

1825
00:55:41,010 --> 00:55:42,330
journalist, this is the cool

1826
00:55:42,330 --> 00:55:43,770
space guy is going to deliver

1827
00:55:43,770 --> 00:55:45,780
us, the tech that's going to

1828
00:55:45,780 --> 00:55:47,640
save humanity or things along

1829
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,020
those lines, I think we have to

1830
00:55:49,020 --> 00:55:51,360
as a society wizened up and grow

1831
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:52,830
up and stop believing these

1832
00:55:52,830 --> 00:55:54,000
narratives that are implanted

1833
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:55,860
for us to believe, having said

1834
00:55:55,860 --> 00:55:57,480
that, I imagine most of your

1835
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:58,770
audience is already well along

1836
00:55:58,770 --> 00:56:00,480
the journey towards growing up

1837
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,730
in that fashion. It's how do we

1838
00:56:02,730 --> 00:56:05,640
reach people who are so easily

1839
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:07,020
entertained and distracted,

1840
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:08,910
essentially, by things of this

1841
00:56:08,940 --> 00:56:10,710
sort? Again, it's not to say

1842
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:11,700
that the Twitter files are

1843
00:56:11,700 --> 00:56:12,750
completely useless. There are

1844
00:56:12,750 --> 00:56:13,980
things in here that are at least

1845
00:56:13,980 --> 00:56:16,770
interesting to me. Some of the

1846
00:56:16,860 --> 00:56:19,050
screenshots, not just confirming

1847
00:56:19,050 --> 00:56:20,280
that shadow banning happens

1848
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,900
again, I think we already knew

1849
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:23,280
that, although that, although

1850
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,050
Twitter did actually officially

1851
00:56:25,050 --> 00:56:26,430
deny it. So it is it would be

1852
00:56:26,430 --> 00:56:27,900
nice to have actual real

1853
00:56:27,900 --> 00:56:29,580
evidence of that rather than a

1854
00:56:29,580 --> 00:56:33,300
screenshot. However, some of the

1855
00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:35,640
insight into the various

1856
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:37,170
categories and how that that

1857
00:56:37,170 --> 00:56:38,580
shadow banding takes place, etc.

1858
00:56:38,580 --> 00:56:39,600
Again, it's interesting

1859
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:41,730
information. I wouldn't, I

1860
00:56:41,730 --> 00:56:42,930
wouldn't dismiss it entirely.

1861
00:56:42,930 --> 00:56:44,100
But I just do not think that

1862
00:56:44,100 --> 00:56:46,320
this is the amazing breakthrough

1863
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,400
journalism, that it's being

1864
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,130
presented as well, what worries

1865
00:56:50,130 --> 00:56:51,690
me, right, is that you're having

1866
00:56:51,690 --> 00:56:53,250
these these two, you know,

1867
00:56:53,250 --> 00:56:55,350
journalists being set up and you

1868
00:56:55,350 --> 00:56:57,420
know, being celebrity ties, I

1869
00:56:57,420 --> 00:56:58,500
guess, I mean, they already did

1870
00:56:58,500 --> 00:56:59,760
have like high profile

1871
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,010
platforms, but people sort of

1872
00:57:02,010 --> 00:57:03,300
like in these types of events.

1873
00:57:03,300 --> 00:57:04,590
And in my experience, it seems

1874
00:57:04,590 --> 00:57:05,760
like people really emotionally

1875
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,520
bond with these people. And Elon

1876
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,020
Musk included in this current

1877
00:57:10,140 --> 00:57:12,420
iteration of, you know, how all

1878
00:57:12,420 --> 00:57:15,480
this stuff is playing out. And I

1879
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:16,890
find that concerning in the case

1880
00:57:16,890 --> 00:57:18,090
that I don't know, for example,

1881
00:57:18,090 --> 00:57:20,940
you have whispers of a potential

1882
00:57:20,940 --> 00:57:22,740
repeat of the COVID era coming

1883
00:57:22,740 --> 00:57:24,120
up not that long from now. And

1884
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:25,530
Jeremy Farrar of the Wellcome

1885
00:57:25,530 --> 00:57:27,390
Trust being named World Health

1886
00:57:27,390 --> 00:57:29,010
Organization, Chief Scientist,

1887
00:57:29,010 --> 00:57:29,370
right?

1888
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,010
It doesn't bode well for that.

1889
00:57:32,010 --> 00:57:33,570
So imagine the events of the

1890
00:57:33,570 --> 00:57:35,100
past couple of years end up

1891
00:57:35,100 --> 00:57:36,870
repeating themselves in a way

1892
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:38,280
that's very unfortunate for the

1893
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:39,660
world. And you have, you know,

1894
00:57:39,870 --> 00:57:41,550
the anti establishment, quote

1895
00:57:41,550 --> 00:57:43,170
unquote, people that have been

1896
00:57:43,230 --> 00:57:46,110
elevated up and, you know,

1897
00:57:47,340 --> 00:57:48,840
they're not exactly a reliable

1898
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,310
source of information, perhaps

1899
00:57:50,310 --> 00:57:52,020
when it comes to these types of

1900
00:57:52,410 --> 00:57:55,890
activities. Right? Um, you know,

1901
00:57:55,890 --> 00:57:57,600
if they're unwilling to question

1902
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,100
events that took place 20 years

1903
00:57:59,100 --> 00:57:59,970
ago, or in the case of the

1904
00:57:59,970 --> 00:58:01,710
Kennedy assassination, like much

1905
00:58:01,710 --> 00:58:03,990
earlier, and are going to be

1906
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:05,250
actually a minority among the

1907
00:58:05,250 --> 00:58:06,450
American public when it comes to

1908
00:58:06,450 --> 00:58:07,650
the Kennedy assassination in

1909
00:58:07,650 --> 00:58:09,540
order to backup the official

1910
00:58:09,540 --> 00:58:10,980
story of the conflict of

1911
00:58:10,980 --> 00:58:12,150
interest ridden Warren

1912
00:58:12,150 --> 00:58:12,810
Commission.

1913
00:58:14,010 --> 00:58:15,960
You know, I just think, given

1914
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:17,220
the stakes of what we're seeing

1915
00:58:17,220 --> 00:58:18,930
right now, and people really

1916
00:58:18,930 --> 00:58:20,790
need to understand that

1917
00:58:20,790 --> 00:58:22,860
information warfare is very

1918
00:58:22,860 --> 00:58:26,100
sophisticated. Yeah. And also

1919
00:58:26,100 --> 00:58:28,170
that, you know, like you said,

1920
00:58:28,170 --> 00:58:30,030
James, people like Matt Taibbi

1921
00:58:30,030 --> 00:58:31,260
have done really great work, but

1922
00:58:31,260 --> 00:58:33,390
at the same time, you know, no

1923
00:58:33,390 --> 00:58:36,120
one is perfect. You should I

1924
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:37,560
really wish that people could

1925
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:38,820
get away from this culture of

1926
00:58:38,820 --> 00:58:41,340
celebrity journalism, and

1927
00:58:41,340 --> 00:58:43,350
instead judge journalists on the

1928
00:58:43,350 --> 00:58:44,820
quality of the journalism they

1929
00:58:44,820 --> 00:58:47,100
produce. And, you know, as on

1930
00:58:47,190 --> 00:58:49,380
even on a case by case basis, or

1931
00:58:49,380 --> 00:58:50,550
something like that, you know,

1932
00:58:50,610 --> 00:58:52,860
maybe that's a lot to ask, when

1933
00:58:52,860 --> 00:58:54,390
the the political savior and

1934
00:58:54,390 --> 00:58:56,550
this whole celebrity worship,

1935
00:58:56,550 --> 00:58:58,110
including in journalism is so

1936
00:58:58,110 --> 00:58:59,730
ingrained in some people and,

1937
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:00,750
you know, very much

1938
00:59:02,100 --> 00:59:04,560
propagated by the social media

1939
00:59:04,620 --> 00:59:05,520
model.

1940
00:59:06,990 --> 00:59:08,100
Which, you know, I guess is

1941
00:59:08,130 --> 00:59:10,020
Twitter files coming full

1942
00:59:10,020 --> 00:59:11,310
circle, in a sense, but it's,

1943
00:59:11,310 --> 00:59:15,240
um, I really do worry that if

1944
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:17,310
people go in, you know, look at

1945
00:59:17,310 --> 00:59:19,770
this stuff with, you know,

1946
00:59:20,100 --> 00:59:21,660
approach it and kind of a naive

1947
00:59:21,660 --> 00:59:22,680
way you're gonna get suckered

1948
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:24,570
in. And, you know, I've had

1949
00:59:24,570 --> 00:59:25,680
experiences with some of these

1950
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,510
people I've had, you know, with

1951
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:29,850
Matt Taibbi. You know, that's

1952
00:59:29,850 --> 00:59:31,140
the only time I've ever been

1953
00:59:31,140 --> 00:59:33,210
interviewed about my work on the

1954
00:59:33,210 --> 00:59:34,770
Epstein case, and it has not

1955
00:59:34,770 --> 00:59:37,560
been published. And part of that

1956
00:59:37,950 --> 00:59:39,300
I was only asked really one

1957
00:59:39,300 --> 00:59:42,660
question before the feet cut

1958
00:59:42,660 --> 00:59:44,130
off. And I was assured that they

1959
00:59:44,130 --> 00:59:45,510
had enough to make the interview

1960
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:46,500
and they would patch it together

1961
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:47,550
and publish it and never did.

1962
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:49,920
But it might tell you BSS the

1963
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,360
first question, and he said,

1964
00:59:52,500 --> 00:59:54,390
What conspiracy theories about

1965
00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:57,570
Epstein are too crazy. And I

1966
00:59:57,870 --> 00:59:59,670
said in the question that I

1967
00:59:59,670 --> 00:59:59,970
didn't

1968
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,140
didn't want to really set any

1969
01:00:01,140 --> 01:00:02,430
parameters. I don't have any

1970
01:00:02,430 --> 01:00:05,580
interest in gatekeeping. What's

1971
01:00:06,060 --> 01:00:07,890
my use, specifically about

1972
01:00:07,890 --> 01:00:09,360
Epstein's death? For example,

1973
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:10,530
because there's so much I mean,

1974
01:00:10,530 --> 01:00:11,340
no one really knows what

1975
01:00:11,340 --> 01:00:12,420
happened, right? So

1976
01:00:13,889 --> 01:00:16,109
that's somehow turned in, I

1977
01:00:16,109 --> 01:00:17,669
later find out not necessarily

1978
01:00:17,669 --> 01:00:19,139
from high Ed, but other people

1979
01:00:19,139 --> 01:00:21,299
at that podcast and sponsored by

1980
01:00:21,299 --> 01:00:23,819
Rolling Stone, that someone

1981
01:00:23,819 --> 01:00:26,189
there in that studio thought

1982
01:00:26,189 --> 01:00:27,449
that I was saying that Epstein

1983
01:00:27,449 --> 01:00:31,739
is still alive. And this came

1984
01:00:31,739 --> 01:00:33,509
out in a petition that was sent

1985
01:00:33,509 --> 01:00:36,089
to Rolling Stone trying to get

1986
01:00:36,089 --> 01:00:37,499
them to actually be platform

1987
01:00:37,529 --> 01:00:38,729
that tie up claiming that they

1988
01:00:38,729 --> 01:00:40,049
invited me on and I claimed that

1989
01:00:40,049 --> 01:00:41,909
Epstein was still alive. And I'm

1990
01:00:41,909 --> 01:00:43,739
a crazy person. So that's a

1991
01:00:43,739 --> 01:00:45,239
pretty weird experience. And

1992
01:00:45,239 --> 01:00:48,329
I'm, I'm kind of disappointed by

1993
01:00:48,329 --> 01:00:48,779
that.

1994
01:00:50,070 --> 01:00:52,710
So, you know, but I'm not

1995
01:00:52,710 --> 01:00:53,700
bringing this stuff up. And I'm

1996
01:00:53,700 --> 01:00:54,750
sure you're not either Jameis.

1997
01:00:54,750 --> 01:00:55,680
Because of our personal

1998
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:57,180
experiences with these people, I

1999
01:00:57,180 --> 01:01:00,300
guess, what I'm trying to point

2000
01:01:00,300 --> 01:01:02,130
out here is that we can't really

2001
01:01:02,130 --> 01:01:03,690
have rose colored glasses about

2002
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:04,800
these kinds of people, when

2003
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,450
they've shown over the course of

2004
01:01:06,450 --> 01:01:07,230
their career, that there's

2005
01:01:07,230 --> 01:01:09,060
certain topics that they're not

2006
01:01:09,060 --> 01:01:10,830
just unwilling to engage with,

2007
01:01:10,830 --> 01:01:12,360
but they're going to use to, you

2008
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,190
know, ridicule people that don't

2009
01:01:14,190 --> 01:01:15,390
see the same way they do about

2010
01:01:15,390 --> 01:01:17,040
certain stuff. So while they may

2011
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:18,300
be good on things like Russia

2012
01:01:18,300 --> 01:01:19,440
gate, and things like that,

2013
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,030
people really do need to learn

2014
01:01:21,570 --> 01:01:23,310
discernment, if your ultimate

2015
01:01:23,310 --> 01:01:24,930
goal as a media consumer is to

2016
01:01:24,930 --> 01:01:26,760
get as close to the truth as you

2017
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:28,380
possibly can. I mean, I think

2018
01:01:28,380 --> 01:01:30,450
that's, you know, required

2019
01:01:30,450 --> 01:01:31,170
behavior.

2020
01:01:32,220 --> 01:01:33,780
I suppose it comes down to

2021
01:01:33,810 --> 01:01:37,170
people's own internal guide as

2022
01:01:37,170 --> 01:01:38,580
to what what it is they're doing

2023
01:01:38,580 --> 01:01:40,260
and what they're engaged in, and

2024
01:01:40,260 --> 01:01:41,700
why I think it has to come down

2025
01:01:41,700 --> 01:01:42,990
to fundamental motivations. If

2026
01:01:42,990 --> 01:01:44,580
you are genuinely interested in

2027
01:01:44,580 --> 01:01:46,530
a pursuit of the truth, then as

2028
01:01:46,530 --> 01:01:47,670
I have maintained for many, many

2029
01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:48,840
years, in fact, since the

2030
01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:50,220
inception of The Corbett Report,

2031
01:01:50,220 --> 01:01:52,350
when this starts becoming about

2032
01:01:52,350 --> 01:01:53,760
people rather than about

2033
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:55,620
information, then we lose,

2034
01:01:55,650 --> 01:01:57,060
because then it becomes a soap

2035
01:01:57,060 --> 01:01:58,560
opera, and it can be manipulated

2036
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:00,030
in all sorts of different ways.

2037
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:02,340
That is why I do not ask people

2038
01:02:02,340 --> 01:02:03,600
to take me at my word on

2039
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:05,130
anything that I'm saying, I

2040
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:06,330
always try to provide the

2041
01:02:06,330 --> 01:02:07,680
references to what I'm saying so

2042
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:08,730
that people can go and look it

2043
01:02:08,730 --> 01:02:11,100
up in its own context, and see

2044
01:02:11,100 --> 01:02:12,420
if they agree or disagree with

2045
01:02:12,420 --> 01:02:14,070
my interpretation, that has been

2046
01:02:14,070 --> 01:02:15,390
a core part of my work for many

2047
01:02:15,390 --> 01:02:16,680
years. Because I do not want

2048
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,110
people to put me on any sort of

2049
01:02:19,350 --> 01:02:21,300
pedestal or to simply accept

2050
01:02:21,300 --> 01:02:22,560
what I'm saying, or to think

2051
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,060
that I am saying, please accept

2052
01:02:24,060 --> 01:02:25,140
what I'm saying. Because I say

2053
01:02:25,140 --> 01:02:26,550
it, that is not the way this

2054
01:02:26,550 --> 01:02:28,080
should work. And anyone who does

2055
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:29,820
come along with that as sort of

2056
01:02:29,820 --> 01:02:32,130
the implicit guideline for what

2057
01:02:32,130 --> 01:02:33,990
they're doing, should, I think

2058
01:02:34,020 --> 01:02:36,450
probably be held in suspicion

2059
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,270
for for that, that that view,

2060
01:02:39,540 --> 01:02:42,060
but at the end of the day, I'm

2061
01:02:42,060 --> 01:02:43,740
sure a lot of people are more

2062
01:02:43,740 --> 01:02:45,870
interested in the spectacle, and

2063
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:48,000
in popcorn munching and in

2064
01:02:48,030 --> 01:02:49,680
choosing sides in some sort of

2065
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,550
spectator sport. Let's eliminate

2066
01:02:53,550 --> 01:02:54,600
those from the conversation

2067
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:55,440
because I imagine they're

2068
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:56,820
probably not subscribed to your

2069
01:02:56,820 --> 01:02:58,380
podcast. So the people who are

2070
01:02:58,410 --> 01:02:59,850
genuinely interested in truth,

2071
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:01,470
do not make this about people

2072
01:03:01,500 --> 01:03:03,240
make it about information. And

2073
01:03:03,270 --> 01:03:05,400
that applies equally to myself

2074
01:03:05,430 --> 01:03:07,050
and to Whitney and to everyone

2075
01:03:07,050 --> 01:03:09,240
that you listen to. If you

2076
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:11,580
cannot triangulate, or if what

2077
01:03:11,580 --> 01:03:12,630
they what they're saying does

2078
01:03:12,630 --> 01:03:14,310
not actually comport with your

2079
01:03:14,310 --> 01:03:15,720
understanding of reality. Of

2080
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:17,100
course, don't take it on board,

2081
01:03:17,100 --> 01:03:18,180
just because someone you've

2082
01:03:18,180 --> 01:03:19,710
liked or seen that you think

2083
01:03:19,710 --> 01:03:21,630
you'd like said it, obviously.

2084
01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:23,970
Now, having said that, of

2085
01:03:23,970 --> 01:03:25,560
course, we have to make certain

2086
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,390
choices in life, we only have a

2087
01:03:27,390 --> 01:03:28,770
certain amount of time, I'm not

2088
01:03:28,770 --> 01:03:29,850
going to waste my time following

2089
01:03:29,850 --> 01:03:31,320
someone that I strongly suspect

2090
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,990
is lying to me all the time. So

2091
01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:34,980
we have to make certain

2092
01:03:35,010 --> 01:03:36,570
decisions at certain points. But

2093
01:03:36,690 --> 01:03:38,190
at any rate, no decision should

2094
01:03:38,190 --> 01:03:39,900
be final as to I will this

2095
01:03:39,900 --> 01:03:41,400
person is an arbiter of truth.

2096
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:42,270
And I think that's the

2097
01:03:42,270 --> 01:03:43,170
fundamental point that we're

2098
01:03:43,170 --> 01:03:44,250
both gesturing at.

2099
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:46,980
Yeah, absolutely. And the only

2100
01:03:46,980 --> 01:03:48,210
point I feel like we didn't make

2101
01:03:48,210 --> 01:03:49,560
today as we're wrapping up here

2102
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:50,880
that I would like to point out

2103
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,340
to people on the Elon Musk from

2104
01:03:53,370 --> 01:03:55,290
Elon Musk has been very, very

2105
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,330
specific that his intention in

2106
01:03:57,330 --> 01:03:59,040
acquiring Twitter, even though

2107
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:00,360
he made these postures about it

2108
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:01,680
being freedom of speech and

2109
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,200
culture war stuff, he said very

2110
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,360
openly that he intends to turn

2111
01:04:06,420 --> 01:04:08,880
Twitter if he can into a WeChat

2112
01:04:08,910 --> 01:04:10,890
equivalent, with WeChat being

2113
01:04:10,890 --> 01:04:12,450
the closest thing we have today

2114
01:04:12,450 --> 01:04:14,220
to the quote unquote, everything

2115
01:04:14,220 --> 01:04:16,050
app, as it's sometimes called.

2116
01:04:16,050 --> 01:04:17,490
And I think Elon Musk and ended

2117
01:04:17,490 --> 01:04:18,900
up sort of using that term, or

2118
01:04:18,900 --> 01:04:20,130
at least mainstream media sort

2119
01:04:20,130 --> 01:04:22,830
of attributed that term to him

2120
01:04:23,070 --> 01:04:24,840
for his ambitions for Twitter.

2121
01:04:25,050 --> 01:04:26,970
So we chats parent company, by

2122
01:04:26,970 --> 01:04:30,630
the way, is a major investor. In

2123
01:04:30,660 --> 01:04:32,640
Elon Musk, I believe it's Tesla,

2124
01:04:32,850 --> 01:04:34,140
and probably one of his most

2125
01:04:34,140 --> 01:04:36,840
active shareholders. So it's

2126
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:38,100
interesting that you have this

2127
01:04:38,370 --> 01:04:42,720
idea of promoting WeChat to an

2128
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:44,160
American audience, because

2129
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:46,410
basically, we chat, if you're

2130
01:04:46,410 --> 01:04:47,640
looking at this, from the

2131
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:49,500
paradigm of data is the new oil

2132
01:04:49,500 --> 01:04:50,490
which I know you've you've

2133
01:04:50,490 --> 01:04:52,230
covered a lot about that in your

2134
01:04:52,230 --> 01:04:54,390
work, James, you know, you think

2135
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:56,130
about the who were the barons of

2136
01:04:56,130 --> 01:04:57,750
the oil era? Well, you know the

2137
01:04:57,750 --> 01:04:58,860
Rockefellers because of the

2138
01:04:58,860 --> 01:05:00,000
Standard Oil monopoly

2139
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,590
So if you want to be the

2140
01:05:01,590 --> 01:05:03,330
Rockefellers of the data era,

2141
01:05:03,330 --> 01:05:04,260
how do you basically get a

2142
01:05:04,260 --> 01:05:05,730
monopoly on data? Well, you own

2143
01:05:05,730 --> 01:05:07,110
the everything app, because all

2144
01:05:07,110 --> 01:05:09,360
the the idea of the everything

2145
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:10,530
app is having, you know,

2146
01:05:10,530 --> 01:05:12,030
everyone do their finances,

2147
01:05:12,030 --> 01:05:13,860
their social media, their

2148
01:05:13,860 --> 01:05:15,420
government services, their

2149
01:05:15,420 --> 01:05:16,740
whatever, everything through

2150
01:05:16,740 --> 01:05:18,660
this one app, right. So if you

2151
01:05:19,140 --> 01:05:20,400
control that app, you control

2152
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:21,270
all the data flowing through

2153
01:05:21,270 --> 01:05:22,230
that app. And if everyone's

2154
01:05:22,230 --> 01:05:23,310
obligated to use it for

2155
01:05:23,310 --> 01:05:24,390
everything, you're gonna have

2156
01:05:24,420 --> 01:05:26,130
the most data out of everyone

2157
01:05:26,130 --> 01:05:29,280
else. So this is, you know, Elon

2158
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:30,510
Musk is not at Twitter

2159
01:05:30,510 --> 01:05:31,800
necessarily to restore free

2160
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:33,960
speech. And I actually got a

2161
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:35,820
message from a friend of mine,

2162
01:05:35,820 --> 01:05:37,020
Sam Husseini, who's also a

2163
01:05:37,020 --> 01:05:38,550
colleague, really great

2164
01:05:38,550 --> 01:05:39,720
journalist, I would encourage

2165
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:41,040
people to check out his work.

2166
01:05:41,460 --> 01:05:42,900
He's been shadow banned more

2167
01:05:42,900 --> 01:05:44,880
than ever on Elon Musk, no one

2168
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,260
can even see his tweets at all.

2169
01:05:46,470 --> 01:05:48,120
Even people that reply to him,

2170
01:05:48,330 --> 01:05:50,400
his his tweet above suddenly

2171
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,650
becomes hidden and stuff. I

2172
01:05:52,650 --> 01:05:53,910
mean, you know, people need to

2173
01:05:53,910 --> 01:05:55,350
be vigilant about the stuff and

2174
01:05:55,350 --> 01:05:57,000
aware that there is some, you

2175
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,140
know, usually where there is

2176
01:05:58,140 --> 01:06:00,180
this type of hype, even if it

2177
01:06:00,180 --> 01:06:02,160
seems to be social, media

2178
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:03,720
generated and viral, all of

2179
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,490
these things are manipulated

2180
01:06:05,490 --> 01:06:06,840
social media is a heavily

2181
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:08,400
manipulated medium, the

2182
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:09,900
algorithms and all of that, I

2183
01:06:09,900 --> 01:06:11,100
mean, it would be very naive to

2184
01:06:11,100 --> 01:06:12,210
think that Elon Musk isn't

2185
01:06:12,210 --> 01:06:14,310
tweeting that to his advantage

2186
01:06:14,310 --> 01:06:16,110
for whatever goals he has for

2187
01:06:16,410 --> 01:06:18,240
his acquisition of the platform.

2188
01:06:19,350 --> 01:06:20,700
Let me just back up what you're

2189
01:06:20,700 --> 01:06:22,140
saying there, I'm so glad that

2190
01:06:22,140 --> 01:06:23,490
you brought up that final point

2191
01:06:23,490 --> 01:06:24,990
about the WeChat everything app

2192
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:25,860
of Twitter.

2193
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,170
That is such an important

2194
01:06:28,170 --> 01:06:30,180
concept because as we're

2195
01:06:30,180 --> 01:06:31,470
recording this, I just recently

2196
01:06:31,470 --> 01:06:33,000
released my new world next year

2197
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:34,200
with James and Bilodeau media

2198
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:35,280
monarchy.com, where we're

2199
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:36,780
talking about our predictions

2200
01:06:36,780 --> 01:06:37,770
for future trends. And my

2201
01:06:37,770 --> 01:06:39,660
prediction for 2023 is about the

2202
01:06:39,660 --> 01:06:41,700
digital ID, and how that is

2203
01:06:41,700 --> 01:06:43,620
going to be increasingly a part

2204
01:06:43,620 --> 01:06:44,760
of people's lives and being

2205
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:46,650
foisted on the public. And it's

2206
01:06:46,650 --> 01:06:48,720
already happening in basically

2207
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:49,950
every country around the world,

2208
01:06:49,950 --> 01:06:51,210
various governments are working

2209
01:06:51,210 --> 01:06:52,830
hard at trying to implement and

2210
01:06:52,830 --> 01:06:54,480
foist and digital ID on their

2211
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,000
population. But as part of that

2212
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:57,990
pincer movement that we're

2213
01:06:57,990 --> 01:06:59,130
talking about, where it's

2214
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:00,690
generally there's there's two

2215
01:07:00,690 --> 01:07:02,940
sides that are essentially

2216
01:07:02,970 --> 01:07:04,230
working towards the same thing,

2217
01:07:04,230 --> 01:07:05,940
but one seems to be on your side

2218
01:07:05,940 --> 01:07:07,140
and the others the big, bad,

2219
01:07:07,170 --> 01:07:09,210
evil, scary men. In this case,

2220
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:11,430
it is absolutely possible that

2221
01:07:11,430 --> 01:07:12,750
instead of having some sort of

2222
01:07:12,750 --> 01:07:14,910
government mandated government

2223
01:07:14,910 --> 01:07:16,590
run digital Ivica, oh, that

2224
01:07:16,590 --> 01:07:18,240
would be terrible. No, we want

2225
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,670
to trust Spaceman with his

2226
01:07:20,700 --> 01:07:23,010
digital ID essentially, which is

2227
01:07:23,010 --> 01:07:24,360
what the everything app is,

2228
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:26,130
it's, it's the consolidation of

2229
01:07:26,130 --> 01:07:27,990
your entire physical and

2230
01:07:28,020 --> 01:07:29,490
biological identity into the

2231
01:07:29,490 --> 01:07:31,200
digital space, and everything

2232
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:32,310
that you do everything that you

2233
01:07:32,310 --> 01:07:33,900
think everything that you buy,

2234
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,150
is being recorded in that space.

2235
01:07:36,150 --> 01:07:37,830
So it essentially functions as a

2236
01:07:37,830 --> 01:07:39,960
type of digital ID. And it may

2237
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:41,250
be a way of getting a digital ID

2238
01:07:41,250 --> 01:07:42,270
through the back door.

2239
01:07:43,470 --> 01:07:45,150
It with the support of the

2240
01:07:45,150 --> 01:07:46,260
people who would be against it

2241
01:07:46,260 --> 01:07:47,190
if it was coming from the

2242
01:07:47,190 --> 01:07:48,750
federal government say, so I

2243
01:07:48,750 --> 01:07:50,070
think we have to be on guard

2244
01:07:50,070 --> 01:07:52,050
against that. Yeah. What's very

2245
01:07:52,050 --> 01:07:53,040
odd in the context of what you

2246
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:53,970
just said, too, is that you're

2247
01:07:53,970 --> 01:07:55,800
having these rather prominent

2248
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:57,180
figures on the quote unquote,

2249
01:07:57,180 --> 01:07:59,370
anti establishment, right? For

2250
01:07:59,370 --> 01:08:00,630
example, Jordan Peterson,

2251
01:08:00,810 --> 01:08:02,430
recently arguing that anonymity

2252
01:08:02,430 --> 01:08:04,530
should be eliminated from the

2253
01:08:04,530 --> 01:08:06,450
internet and online government

2254
01:08:06,450 --> 01:08:07,410
should be able to know who you

2255
01:08:07,410 --> 01:08:08,640
are when you're saying stuff.

2256
01:08:09,540 --> 01:08:10,770
Which is actually interesting

2257
01:08:10,770 --> 01:08:12,330
enough, another policy goal of

2258
01:08:12,330 --> 01:08:13,770
the World Economic Forum, and

2259
01:08:13,770 --> 01:08:14,760
their partnership against

2260
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:16,320
cybercrime is literally all

2261
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:18,060
about that. And the people,

2262
01:08:18,300 --> 01:08:19,470
their reasons for the cyber

2263
01:08:19,470 --> 01:08:20,970
polygon stuff, it all ties back

2264
01:08:20,970 --> 01:08:24,060
to ending online anonymity. And

2265
01:08:24,090 --> 01:08:26,490
of course, digital ID agenda,

2266
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:27,870
having your government your

2267
01:08:27,870 --> 01:08:28,980
digital ID your government

2268
01:08:28,980 --> 01:08:30,360
issued ID tied to your social

2269
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:32,760
media activity is very much part

2270
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,580
of that. So interesting to see

2271
01:08:35,580 --> 01:08:36,780
that popping up on people like

2272
01:08:36,780 --> 01:08:38,010
Tim Poole talking about hey,

2273
01:08:38,010 --> 01:08:39,540
whoa, yeah, neural link is going

2274
01:08:39,540 --> 01:08:40,950
to be the greatest thing ever. I

2275
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:43,830
can't wait. it weird that all

2276
01:08:43,830 --> 01:08:45,840
these these, you know, voices

2277
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:47,490
and the same sort of niche, I

2278
01:08:47,490 --> 01:08:50,160
guess, that Musk himself is

2279
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:51,210
trying to develop are now

2280
01:08:51,210 --> 01:08:53,310
starting to talk about how, how

2281
01:08:53,310 --> 01:08:55,260
great all this stuff is all of a

2282
01:08:55,260 --> 01:08:56,880
sudden and you know, people are

2283
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:58,590
gonna, you know, targeting the

2284
01:08:58,590 --> 01:08:59,640
segment that nor of the

2285
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:01,050
population that would that would

2286
01:09:01,050 --> 01:09:02,820
normally be most against this.

2287
01:09:02,820 --> 01:09:05,070
It's a bit. It's a bit odd. But

2288
01:09:05,100 --> 01:09:06,450
you know, I don't want to be a

2289
01:09:06,450 --> 01:09:08,280
hopelessly stupid conspiracy

2290
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,040
theorist James. So me well,

2291
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:12,180
Whitney, as you know, the

2292
01:09:12,180 --> 01:09:13,770
pursuit of truth and actually

2293
01:09:13,770 --> 01:09:15,600
standing by principles has never

2294
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,070
and will never be a popular

2295
01:09:17,070 --> 01:09:19,560
endeavor. So yeah, no, I think

2296
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:20,940
people have to look in the

2297
01:09:20,940 --> 01:09:22,200
mirror and see if they're ready

2298
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:24,210
to really take the plunge as to

2299
01:09:24,210 --> 01:09:25,830
whether they are willing to

2300
01:09:25,860 --> 01:09:27,210
withstand the psychological

2301
01:09:27,210 --> 01:09:29,400
onslaught that will come as they

2302
01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:31,830
become holdouts of the the brand

2303
01:09:31,830 --> 01:09:33,300
new technocratic future that's

2304
01:09:33,300 --> 01:09:34,380
being dangled out in front of

2305
01:09:34,380 --> 01:09:36,600
our faces. Anyway, I know which

2306
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:38,010
side of that line I'm on, but

2307
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:40,230
it's never going to be an easy

2308
01:09:40,260 --> 01:09:42,450
path. Well, on that note, I

2309
01:09:42,450 --> 01:09:44,130
would like to say sorry, to all

2310
01:09:44,130 --> 01:09:45,720
the listeners that might be Elon

2311
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:47,880
Musk fanboys are fanboys of Matt

2312
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:49,230
Taibbi, Barry Weiss, Glenn

2313
01:09:49,230 --> 01:09:51,060
Greenwald, and the list goes on.

2314
01:09:51,810 --> 01:09:53,640
But I think it's important that

2315
01:09:53,670 --> 01:09:55,260
as we said earlier, scrutiny is

2316
01:09:55,260 --> 01:09:57,660
applied to all of us that it

2317
01:09:57,660 --> 01:09:59,490
goes for me that goes for James

2318
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:00,000
as

2319
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,710
As my friend Ryan Christian

2320
01:10:01,710 --> 01:10:02,790
likes to say, question,

2321
01:10:02,790 --> 01:10:04,350
everything should probably also

2322
01:10:04,350 --> 01:10:06,510
be question everyone, it should

2323
01:10:06,510 --> 01:10:07,590
all be about, like you said,

2324
01:10:07,590 --> 01:10:09,660
James the information, not the

2325
01:10:09,660 --> 01:10:11,190
person. And I really hope at

2326
01:10:11,190 --> 01:10:12,750
some point, we get to a paradigm

2327
01:10:13,470 --> 01:10:15,450
where that is the case. And I

2328
01:10:15,450 --> 01:10:16,650
hope that people, you know, if

2329
01:10:16,650 --> 01:10:18,480
you're eagerly consuming the

2330
01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:20,190
Twitter files hype, and are

2331
01:10:20,190 --> 01:10:21,750
enjoying it, which is you're

2332
01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:24,360
totally within your right to do

2333
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,310
that, that, you know, perhaps

2334
01:10:26,310 --> 01:10:29,010
maybe prod some of these figures

2335
01:10:29,010 --> 01:10:30,900
to release the files that

2336
01:10:30,900 --> 01:10:32,100
they're actually putting out

2337
01:10:32,100 --> 01:10:33,210
there to be a little more

2338
01:10:33,870 --> 01:10:36,210
transparent. So you know, the

2339
01:10:36,210 --> 01:10:37,620
idea is that this type of

2340
01:10:37,620 --> 01:10:39,150
censorship doesn't happen again.

2341
01:10:39,150 --> 01:10:41,310
So for effective change, that

2342
01:10:41,310 --> 01:10:43,260
fact that that documentation has

2343
01:10:43,260 --> 01:10:44,460
to be there, for example, if

2344
01:10:44,460 --> 01:10:46,110
legal action were to be taken or

2345
01:10:46,110 --> 01:10:48,210
something like that, to at least

2346
01:10:48,210 --> 01:10:49,650
send a message or something like

2347
01:10:49,650 --> 01:10:51,240
that, to the Twitter executives

2348
01:10:51,270 --> 01:10:52,590
involved in this suppression

2349
01:10:52,590 --> 01:10:53,910
being exposed, most of whom

2350
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:55,620
don't work at Twitter anymore. I

2351
01:10:55,620 --> 01:10:56,880
think all of them actually don't

2352
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:58,350
work at Twitter anymore. Fancy

2353
01:10:58,350 --> 01:11:00,900
that. So I guess with that being

2354
01:11:00,900 --> 01:11:02,070
said, James, thanks so much for

2355
01:11:02,070 --> 01:11:03,060
joining me to discuss these

2356
01:11:03,060 --> 01:11:05,520
issues today. If you have any

2357
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:06,810
parting thoughts, I would love

2358
01:11:06,810 --> 01:11:09,030
to hear them. And if not, if you

2359
01:11:09,030 --> 01:11:10,260
could, please let everyone know

2360
01:11:10,260 --> 01:11:11,280
where to find your work and what

2361
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:12,150
you have coming up.

2362
01:11:13,380 --> 01:11:14,730
Well, let's leave the parting

2363
01:11:14,730 --> 01:11:17,040
thought as I don't want to say a

2364
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:17,970
plug for my site

2365
01:11:17,970 --> 01:11:20,070
but@corbettreport.com, you will

2366
01:11:20,070 --> 01:11:21,150
be able to find all of the

2367
01:11:21,150 --> 01:11:22,380
reports I've done along these

2368
01:11:22,380 --> 01:11:23,730
lines, just use the search bar

2369
01:11:23,730 --> 01:11:25,980
to search for Musk or Peter

2370
01:11:25,980 --> 01:11:27,900
Thiel or any of the issues and

2371
01:11:27,900 --> 01:11:28,890
things that we've discussed

2372
01:11:28,890 --> 01:11:30,210
first look media, the intercept,

2373
01:11:30,210 --> 01:11:32,100
Omidyar Greenwalt, you will find

2374
01:11:32,100 --> 01:11:33,720
it in the archives there, it's

2375
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:34,800
all available for free. So I

2376
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:36,150
hope people take advantage of

2377
01:11:36,150 --> 01:11:38,340
that and use it as one way of

2378
01:11:38,340 --> 01:11:39,750
gaining a window into this. And

2379
01:11:39,750 --> 01:11:42,600
as always, only one way. And as

2380
01:11:43,110 --> 01:11:45,120
I certainly don't have the the

2381
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:46,320
archive of everything, but I'm

2382
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,780
working on it. I will be

2383
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:50,310
plunging into the new year with

2384
01:11:50,310 --> 01:11:52,350
a bunch of new material. But for

2385
01:11:52,350 --> 01:11:53,280
the next couple of weeks,

2386
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:54,660
probably taking a bit of time

2387
01:11:54,660 --> 01:11:57,450
off and enjoying the the

2388
01:11:57,660 --> 01:12:00,090
Christmas New Year's break. So

2389
01:12:00,810 --> 01:12:02,640
having said that, once again,

2390
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:03,390
thank you, Whitney for

2391
01:12:03,390 --> 01:12:04,350
everything you're doing. I hope

2392
01:12:04,350 --> 01:12:05,490
your listeners are supporting

2393
01:12:05,490 --> 01:12:07,290
your work. I know this is not

2394
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:08,700
again, this is not an easy or

2395
01:12:08,700 --> 01:12:11,070
popular path. And so my best to

2396
01:12:11,070 --> 01:12:12,480
you and and thank you for doing

2397
01:12:12,480 --> 01:12:14,040
what you do. Well, thanks,

2398
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:15,480
James, I really appreciate that.

2399
01:12:15,750 --> 01:12:17,070
You definitely for me, you're

2400
01:12:17,070 --> 01:12:18,000
one of the models about how

2401
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,490
journalism should be done. You

2402
01:12:20,490 --> 01:12:21,630
know, you are the open source

2403
01:12:21,630 --> 01:12:23,250
intelligence masters. So I'm

2404
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:24,510
very happy to have you on my

2405
01:12:24,510 --> 01:12:26,460
podcast today. So thanks again.

2406
01:12:26,790 --> 01:12:28,650
And yes, for everyone listening,

2407
01:12:28,650 --> 01:12:29,640
you probably are aware that

2408
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:30,690
Christmas and New Year's are

2409
01:12:30,690 --> 01:12:33,930
upon us. So this will be my last

2410
01:12:33,930 --> 01:12:36,630
podcast of 2020. To see you all

2411
01:12:36,630 --> 01:12:39,270
again in 2023. Thank you so much

2412
01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:40,500
to everyone that supported this

2413
01:12:40,500 --> 01:12:41,910
podcast, including when I was

2414
01:12:41,910 --> 01:12:43,260
not producing very much because

2415
01:12:43,260 --> 01:12:44,970
I was writing a very lengthy two

2416
01:12:44,970 --> 01:12:46,800
volume book that is very much

2417
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:48,840
appreciated. And I hope everyone

2418
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:50,220
listening has a great holiday

2419
01:12:50,220 --> 01:12:52,890
season, and that you enjoy this

2420
01:12:52,890 --> 01:12:56,010
last podcast of the year. Just

2421
01:12:56,010 --> 01:12:58,020
like James mentioned, unlimited

2422
01:12:58,020 --> 01:12:59,580
hangout and myself also have a

2423
01:12:59,580 --> 01:13:02,520
lot of material coming out next

2424
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,880
year. That will definitely be of

2425
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:07,050
interest to a lot of people

2426
01:13:07,050 --> 01:13:08,610
listening to this podcast and

2427
01:13:08,850 --> 01:13:10,050
interested in some of the themes

2428
01:13:10,050 --> 01:13:11,520
of the recent podcast, including

2429
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:13,470
the FTX situation that I have

2430
01:13:13,470 --> 01:13:15,510
written about recently. So I

2431
01:13:15,510 --> 01:13:16,980
would encourage you to if you

2432
01:13:16,980 --> 01:13:18,240
haven't already, sign up for our

2433
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:19,320
newsletter at unlimited

2434
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:20,550
Hangouts. You can find out about

2435
01:13:20,550 --> 01:13:21,930
all the podcast articles and

2436
01:13:21,930 --> 01:13:24,210
interviews and other things as

2437
01:13:24,210 --> 01:13:26,340
they as they are released. And

2438
01:13:26,340 --> 01:13:27,300
with that being said, Have a

2439
01:13:27,300 --> 01:13:29,190
great holiday season everyone

2440
01:13:29,190 --> 01:13:30,360
and see you in the next year.