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wearing their traumas as a jewelry while really it's a puzzle piece that was like it's there for

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you to use it and transform into something yeah and this is why love is to cure

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okay and kiss me and kill and the rockstar dev you asked yourself that question so you have to answer that

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Welcome to Live with Bitcoin, where we dial into the human side of Bitcoin by focusing

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on Bitcoiners' personal transformations and life stories.

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I'm your host, BTC Ved. Thanks for tuning in.

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Today, we're having a very special episode in Hong Kong, recording a live episode with

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a legendary guest.

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In Bitcoin, we often say, you don't change Bitcoin, Bitcoin changes you.

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But Bitcoin doesn't just run on nodes or codes, it runs on people.

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People who shape its future, protect its values, and inspire others to live differently because

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of it.

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Ankur Rockstar Dev is one of those rare figures.

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He is a relentless advocate for free and open source software and a champion for the global

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Bitcoin community.

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But his influence goes beyond code.

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Rockstar is also a philosopher whose ideas on freedom, privacy, and resilience have shaped

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the thinking of countless Bitcoiners worldwide, including myself. For many, his words have been

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just as transformative as the tool he has built. It's an honor for me to sit down to have a

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conversation today with someone who embodies the builder, philosopher, and the guardian of Bitcoin.

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Please join me to welcome Anko Rockstar Dev. Thank you for joining me, Rockstar.

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Thank you for having me, Vivian. I really appreciate today as an opportunity to

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do a deep dive into these topics that we both are very fond of and

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hopefully we get somewhere for ourselves and for the big winners who are

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Like or not like us. Thank you for willing to share and these I will ask some hard questions

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And I appreciate you extend your thoughts on these matters

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Yeah, well, hopefully I have the answers and

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Thank you for

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being

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person that helps me you know formalize my thinking go deeper in some topics and not only

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for me but for a lot of other people in bitcoin i know some of those watching i've been watching for

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long what you've been doing some of them were guests in your shows and it's really amazing

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to see the impact that you're having.

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So yeah, it's great for me as well to be part of this

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and looking forward to seeing where this conversation takes us.

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Today we'll be talking about the life with Bitcoin.

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And as you know, on Live with Bitcoin podcast,

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we talk about personal stories, the human side of Bitcoin

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when it comes to personal transformations on the Bitcoin standard.

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And looking at you, I think you were probably one of these figures

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that in bitcoin that have an epic journey on that front. Let's talk about the days before bitcoin

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because most people know you as uncle rockstar dev. It's a complex identity and especially you're

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not public in the space in the sense that you don't show your faces, you don't show your face

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and most people know you in the bitcoin context. Who were you before bitcoin? Who was I before

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Bitcoin and then it's also who am I now outside of Bitcoin because Bitcoin is

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definitely something that has shaped me very much and as you say okay yeah you

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had a split piece of like your faces I feel like I yeah I do have actually

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multiple faces we all do we'll do yeah but for me it's it's that

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understanding that God gave you one face and I have multiple faces in a in a way where you know

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I wear a white mask it's a one face and then you saw the second day of the conference it's a black

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mask and I'm kind of selfishly preserving my face for my private life so that when I take off the

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mask when i take off sunglasses hat it's obvious signal that i'm outside of bitcoin and i should be

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left alone uh by bitcoin and everything that it is within the bitcoin and i think a lot of people

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do that uh in different ways it's not that structured so a lot of people understand that

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separation of private life versus business life so you know once five o'clock hits you're no longer

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you know a business person you're no longer slaving for the company you are like it's now

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your free time so you're a different person do not call me though hopefully hopefully you're not

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in that situation because it's it's terrible to to have that kind of a big switch uncle rockstar

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of. How was that identity born? Like why Uncle Rock started that?

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Yeah so I'm getting to that from the perspective also like who was I before it started to take

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over because I was just I would say a regular nerd, programmer, someone that's very much interested

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in cypherpunk philosophy someone that was interested in mailing lists and someone that

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from early age I really deeply cared about privacy but I thought I was a crazy insane paranoid until

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I stumbled upon cypherpunk writings and then I was like okay I'm not the only one so so yeah I

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I very early on latched onto Bitcoin, especially because I grew up in what you would call third world country and suffered through hyperinflation as very young.

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So when Bitcoin happened, it was immediately, the value proposition was immediately obvious to me.

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What was it like to live in a hyperinflation environment?

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well you know how people want to be billionaires and i've been a billionaire it's not fun

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yeah it's not what you think it is it's you you get these bills and then you need to

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spend them before they're worthless before government prints a new batch

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and all this is happening

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as a part of

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a big civil

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war and

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I even looking back

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I was lucky at least

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the country I was

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living in

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Serbia was spared of

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the worst part of civil

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war most of the war was happening

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in Bosnia and Croatia

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so

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I also look at my

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kids that were my age back then like if it was almost if you're 100 kilometers this way

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that defines your destiny way more than who you are uh what you can give to this world it's just

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you're labeled in a certain way and that means you should be you know with this side and if this

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side comes you're you're dead literally so so again like growing up with that it's a lot to

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come to terms with plus you as a young adult you know how rebellious young people are like

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world owes you something and in this case it's like well it does owe me you know better childhood

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less conflict why do i need to see these people dying these people being upset about me these

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people labeling me as evil and you know my family my uh people that i know so a lot to come to terms

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with which actually bitcoin gave me because again i struggled in 2000s to come to terms

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with why it had to happen to me.

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But then when Bitcoin started,

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it was like, oh, well,

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I actually really understand

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why this thing has value

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and how it can help protect individual freedom.

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When did Bitcoin enter your life?

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Well, again, as I was following

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a Cypherpunk mailing list very early on,

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but I thought governments will ban it.

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You know, we all have those preconceived notions

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before we get into Bitcoin.

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You know, some people have Bitcoin is for criminals.

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Bitcoin, you know, is backed by nothing

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or governments will ban Bitcoin.

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And Parker Lewis, shout out to him,

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wrote a great series of gradually then suddenly

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where each title of the entry in the series,

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a bunch of them, is like common myth.

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And I was a victim of misconception

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that governments will ban Bitcoin.

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It wasn't really until 2012, 13, 14, 14 really,

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was when I saw that politicians are buying Bitcoin,

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members of US Congress they have Bitcoin I was like well now it's going to ride their greed

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and we're safe we're safe and then that's a good point that's a good point sometimes you have to

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tap into other people's greed to protect Bitcoiners integrity almost you see what's happening now is

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it's really funny when

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people look at

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Trump

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family buying Bitcoin and they're like

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well now Trump will control Bitcoin

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well it's really Bitcoin

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controlling Trump's

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Trump and his family

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so

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they are now invested into the system

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and they're going to defend the system

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so

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obviously they're going

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to try to co-opt system

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they they're confused they wouldn't be getting in unless they were doing the calculations and

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saying like well you know we're gonna take it this direction but that's really one of the

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beauties of the system that bitcoin is like especially greedy people it tricks them

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so well and you know then they think uh bitcoin will serve them while they really end up serving

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bitcoin i say i was having a conversation with my friend and then all of a sudden there's a question

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what is bitcoin and i and i remember myself reading that message and i had to think about it

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I sat there for like a solid minute just staring at the message and what is Bitcoin?

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I think Bitcoin is the thing that either makes you or ruins you.

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We are the people, we are the person to decide if we let Bitcoin makes us or ruins us.

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And this kind of goes back to what you're saying to the trap thing for greedy people,

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for people who don't approach this with the right intention,

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they will get burned.

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And I do believe that the real challenge for Bitcoiners

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will begin when Bitcoin moves.

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Because money is an amplifier of good and evil.

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And Bitcoin is as sound as money can get.

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so the amplifying power of Bitcoin as money is phenomenal

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and I worry for those Bitcoiners who have not worked on themselves

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and I worry that when Bitcoin moons

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like whatever that means

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there's so many more people will be financially free

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and for the very first time in their life

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they will have the freedom to decide what to do with their time

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and I bet many of us

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will freak out

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because we've been so conditioned

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to fiat society

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we have been so pushed

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by arbitrary rules

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arbitrary

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limitations

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like you said

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you are 100 kilometers apart

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and your life is different

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this is stupid

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well

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it's a side effect really

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the world shouldn't be like this

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yeah but but still this is where a lot of people get confused with me um i actually will

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love fiat system because it it was a good technology that got us here the same way that

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gold was a good technology that got us to the point but that's the trickiness of life

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if something can get you to the point and then you need to change you need to get closer to the truth

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you need to align better with the truth like universal truth and then you can you can take

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the further steps so when you had the question like what is bitcoin to me i i always answered

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from well most of the time answered from the perspective of it is the best money humanity

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has invented it's simply the the most perfect money and uh as you say money is a very interesting

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tool and it's i always say financial freedom is foundation of all freedom yeah if i you know

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take away all your money it is no but it's it's good that it's that way okay and the thing is

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if i tell you oh vivian you're free but i take away all your money

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you are you go well i'm free but i can't do anything like that yeah exactly so i will also

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relate a lot with what you were saying is as you get that financial freedom and as you get

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complete freedom what do you do with that freedom because ultimately that's the question yeah and

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as someone that has been given that it is often like like a train that's been taken off the train

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tracks and it's sitting you know in a field and it's free but it can't go anywhere you know

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you need to choose your track and you know put yourself on some kind of a journey

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and do something with it right do something with it yes and then when you do have a bunch of

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financial freedom bunch of money suddenly you you get so many tracks so many options

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so many people have ideas for you oh you should be going here you should be going there you should

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you know you should invest in me even more distractions yeah and uh and then yeah you get

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tricked uh you you get to live the best five days of your life you get to travel here you get and

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And the thing with Bitcoin is it over time gives you so much that, as you say, like education and going towards some kind of personal enlightenment that keeps you centered is very important.

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What is enlightenment for you?

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well it's

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it's really like

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getting closer to the

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ultimate truth

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and then understanding that as a human

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being you're so

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imperfect that you will never

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get

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close like the ultimate

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truth is

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you know at the center

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of this galaxy

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so you as a human being

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you

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can get

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closer to the truth but you will be so far away into the imperfection that there will always be

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that component of humility of understanding that is like no matter how hard i try i will fail

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but i uh you know i'm gonna make the effort because what else is there to do and

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to me the funniest are the people that are like oh i am um a truthful person i care about the truth

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because usually they're the biggest assholes they're the you know i know the truth that there

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is only one truth and it's my truth oh surprise surprise because because you were mentioning in

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the fireside chat on a big creation too you you want to go you want to approach perfection you

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to push yourself towards that but how how i see it it's not about perfection or imperfection it's

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about whole and not whole so it's of course like perfectionism myths yeah right and where what do

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you what's the difference between perfection and originality and and ultimately which one do you

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care about more? Neither. There's a perfection, originality, truth, fun. And if I would,

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out of all of those, yeah, I guess I would put my journey towards the truth as number one. But still,

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if I am going towards the truth and it's not fun it's like again why am I doing that

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going back to what I said like I understand that I will never get close to the ultimate truth

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so for me it's also a component of fun now do I do it now do I do it perfectly

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no I don't care about it do I do it originally also don't care much about like I would love to

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but if there is someone else you know with a mask and yeah i if i start caring too much a bit

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about being original i would get into thinking too much about something doesn't matter i need

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to focus more on whether i'm advancing towards the truth am i having fun and uh yeah i would set

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up like that. Because one thing that I love in Bitcoin, you see that there are more masked

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individuals, right? Yeah, because of you. A lot of it is because of you. So many people

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were inspired by you But they will not admit it Some will Well yeah that a good thing I actually love that Bitcoin is creating us in a way to serve through these identities

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Oh yeah, big time.

234
00:20:58,878 --> 00:21:09,958
Because someone else can take Rockstar Mask, do the same outfit, and can take that place and can serve Bitcoin in a way that I serve.

235
00:21:09,958 --> 00:21:15,718
It's a message. You're taking a stand and you're sending a message.

236
00:21:15,718 --> 00:21:19,898
And by showing up like this, you're sending off a vibe as well.

237
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And you're providing food for yourself where everybody sees you.

238
00:21:23,758 --> 00:21:29,818
And that brings me to the question of what's the difference between a Bitcoin personality and a Bitcoin person?

239
00:21:29,818 --> 00:21:31,278
because

240
00:21:31,278 --> 00:21:34,318
Uncle Rockstar Dev

241
00:21:34,318 --> 00:21:35,478
the mask

242
00:21:35,478 --> 00:21:37,299
the suit

243
00:21:37,299 --> 00:21:40,698
the chains

244
00:21:40,698 --> 00:21:42,938
it could be

245
00:21:42,938 --> 00:21:45,898
it could be part of the

246
00:21:45,898 --> 00:21:47,238
ubiquity personality right

247
00:21:47,238 --> 00:21:48,518
and then as you said

248
00:21:48,518 --> 00:21:50,778
somebody else can take over the torch

249
00:21:50,778 --> 00:21:51,678
and be that

250
00:21:51,678 --> 00:21:52,799
and show up

251
00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:54,078
even us

252
00:21:54,078 --> 00:21:55,578
Uncle Rockstar Dev

253
00:21:55,578 --> 00:21:57,098
with the costume

254
00:21:57,098 --> 00:21:58,138
yes

255
00:21:58,138 --> 00:22:05,838
how do you stay sane and authentic like what's the difference between a big queen personality

256
00:22:05,838 --> 00:22:11,998
and a big queen person how do i stay insane and knowing that i can be replaced how how do you say

257
00:22:11,998 --> 00:22:17,918
what it seems that you want to be replaced and you you're you're welcoming people to to to it's

258
00:22:17,918 --> 00:22:23,918
not about replacing it's about starting a movement and you you have people joining because they see

259
00:22:23,918 --> 00:22:30,098
what you're doing and then they they agree with it um and agree on the mission and then they agree

260
00:22:30,098 --> 00:22:35,858
on the approach and then they do their part right so i don't think it's necessarily a replacement

261
00:22:35,858 --> 00:22:42,058
is a movement it's more of a movement we need more people it can be more shallow than that i

262
00:22:42,058 --> 00:22:47,778
one thing that i was always curious for people that watch my interviews is like why hasn't

263
00:22:47,778 --> 00:22:53,578
still anyone shown up to a party and be like i'm rockstar you you would get into some amazing

264
00:22:53,578 --> 00:23:03,658
parties so it can be as shallow as that but uh i don't know vivian i uh

265
00:23:03,658 --> 00:23:10,458
i i like the component of

266
00:23:10,458 --> 00:23:21,718
anyone being able to join the identity itself and not necessarily being me

267
00:23:21,718 --> 00:23:34,138
because also in a way it then abstracts it from from the individual so so i is right individual

268
00:23:34,138 --> 00:23:39,618
i don't know if that's maybe the distinction between persona and person and personality

269
00:23:39,618 --> 00:23:49,878
person and persona but and that's also when i look at other names like kale like

270
00:23:49,878 --> 00:23:55,478
those people is the great thing is if we get to the point where

271
00:23:55,478 --> 00:24:04,258
you you can give a github account to someone else and they continue or there can be a group of people

272
00:24:04,258 --> 00:24:12,398
behind the the github account that are for those that don't know like are coding and submitting

273
00:24:12,398 --> 00:24:18,978
code that's what i would love to see in bitcoin core for example instead of so many contributors

274
00:24:18,978 --> 00:24:28,178
now essentially building up their ego and their you know like identity under like first name last

275
00:24:28,178 --> 00:24:37,058
name and doing a lot of things from the position of being threatened whether their grants will

276
00:24:37,058 --> 00:24:44,078
continue whether their income will continue if they can build something that can be even given

277
00:24:44,078 --> 00:24:53,898
away to other people you know satoshi is it one person or its group of people we don't know and

278
00:24:53,898 --> 00:25:03,158
again i love this structure because i think it's important for us continuing our journey towards

279
00:25:03,158 --> 00:25:13,039
the truth we need better systems and uh the fact also that bitcoin is digital brings up a lot of

280
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:20,638
questions like you've done something now you you know you you've gone public and said oh you know

281
00:25:20,638 --> 00:25:25,758
when you look back at like 2010 there are people that are saying oh well i only have thousand

282
00:25:25,758 --> 00:25:33,398
bitcoin and now imagine that's a person that had their first name last name tied to that state oh

283
00:25:33,398 --> 00:25:39,778
good luck yeah that person and it's not only good luck to that person good luck to the surroundings

284
00:25:39,778 --> 00:25:48,258
of that person good luck to the family of that person good luck to everyone in uh her his or her

285
00:25:48,258 --> 00:25:57,938
life that he or she or they or them whatever we're getting pronouns care about because

286
00:25:57,938 --> 00:26:05,698
you know i care about you so you will get abducted by crazy people who will then and

287
00:26:05,698 --> 00:26:14,478
it's like it's not even you and it's happening so that's what i see and then once i start talking

288
00:26:14,478 --> 00:26:21,518
about that people also get better understanding why i wear a mask is because people can see me

289
00:26:21,518 --> 00:26:25,998
like oh he's been in bitcoin for so long like you vivian you've been in bitcoin for so long

290
00:26:25,998 --> 00:26:31,539
you must have 100 bitcoin right no no she does

291
00:26:31,539 --> 00:26:37,978
but i know i know what you're saying but what i'm what i'm hearing is that

292
00:26:37,978 --> 00:26:47,058
i don't know if you know this but my my my pickup is that there's part of you that chose this

293
00:26:47,058 --> 00:26:53,978
chose this path of having a mask and and hiding your your private identity in the bitcoin context

294
00:26:53,978 --> 00:27:01,238
yes largely because of the cypherpunk philosophy largely because of your your advocacy on

295
00:27:01,238 --> 00:27:08,598
privacy but i also think there's part of you that's yeah privacy is not a crime it's a really

296
00:27:08,598 --> 00:27:16,438
good message but i think part of you came up with this identity this faceless identity or

297
00:27:16,438 --> 00:27:21,598
the mask as a face identity so that you can give bitcoin without trauma

298
00:27:21,598 --> 00:27:28,918
to myself yeah as well but here's the thing i i want to be clear on this

299
00:27:28,918 --> 00:27:42,098
i haven't still figured it out because people when they see me they are projecting i am a mirror

300
00:27:42,098 --> 00:27:51,798
and so they start going with okay this guy has it all figured out like he's making a statement

301
00:27:51,798 --> 00:27:55,478
this guy is an anarchist

302
00:27:55,478 --> 00:27:57,298
he wants to see the world burn

303
00:27:57,298 --> 00:27:59,018
this guy is

304
00:27:59,018 --> 00:27:59,978
so there are

305
00:27:59,978 --> 00:28:02,758
I have had

306
00:28:02,758 --> 00:28:05,338
people approach me with

307
00:28:05,338 --> 00:28:07,058
craziest

308
00:28:07,058 --> 00:28:08,598
preconceived notions

309
00:28:08,598 --> 00:28:11,318
that go from the

310
00:28:11,318 --> 00:28:13,358
perspective of like I have it all figured out

311
00:28:13,358 --> 00:28:14,758
like no, no I don't

312
00:28:14,758 --> 00:28:17,198
and also it's not something

313
00:28:17,198 --> 00:28:17,998
that I have

314
00:28:17,998 --> 00:28:20,098
I made a switch

315
00:28:20,098 --> 00:28:22,458
I have figured this out

316
00:28:22,458 --> 00:28:24,978
throughout the years

317
00:28:24,978 --> 00:28:26,458
and I'm still figuring it out

318
00:28:26,458 --> 00:28:27,238
you know

319
00:28:27,238 --> 00:28:30,138
I'm now getting new suits

320
00:28:30,138 --> 00:28:31,978
I'm getting a mask

321
00:28:31,978 --> 00:28:34,758
getting different sunglasses

322
00:28:34,758 --> 00:28:36,938
changing this

323
00:28:36,938 --> 00:28:37,558
yeah

324
00:28:37,558 --> 00:28:39,039
you know

325
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:40,178
some people are like

326
00:28:40,178 --> 00:28:40,718
oh yeah

327
00:28:40,718 --> 00:28:42,278
he's wearing Gucci glasses

328
00:28:42,278 --> 00:28:43,798
so why is he doing that

329
00:28:43,798 --> 00:28:45,118
like why isn't he giving

330
00:28:45,118 --> 00:28:47,258
money to poor kids

331
00:28:47,258 --> 00:28:49,098
that's tacky

332
00:28:49,098 --> 00:28:59,918
or why is he wearing this chain why is it so i i just want to be clear that it's not like i don't

333
00:28:59,918 --> 00:29:05,518
have all the answers i haven't figured it out i could start talking about individual things

334
00:29:05,518 --> 00:29:13,778
and we can start unpacking it but again it's sometimes i question whether i should spend

335
00:29:13,778 --> 00:29:20,418
a second on that because as soon as people come to you and with me they're like you're an anarchist

336
00:29:20,418 --> 00:29:27,578
you wear this mask you're a bandit you want to see the world burn if i engage in that conversation

337
00:29:27,578 --> 00:29:36,158
i'm giving those people power because all that is false like i'm not an energy to entertain that

338
00:29:36,158 --> 00:29:44,458
right entertain that reality like that's something like i'm not anarchist i i love society in in a

339
00:29:44,458 --> 00:29:52,478
weird way sure like i love the structure that society is and and i always go towards politicians

340
00:29:52,478 --> 00:30:03,238
because this societal order that we have is in large part because those with psychotic tendencies

341
00:30:03,238 --> 00:30:05,958
like that 2% of population that we have,

342
00:30:06,298 --> 00:30:10,578
we found out that it's best to isolate them into political games.

343
00:30:11,618 --> 00:30:20,118
And those psychopaths then, yeah, we organize these games for them called elections.

344
00:30:20,878 --> 00:30:26,018
And then, you know, as a good sheep, we come and we choose the biggest psychopath

345
00:30:26,018 --> 00:30:32,238
out of all of them so that that psychopath protects us from the other psychopaths.

346
00:30:32,238 --> 00:30:35,238
do you think they're the psychopaths or we're the psychopaths

347
00:30:35,838 --> 00:30:46,818
i i think they're the psychopaths but the system is making us into it's like playing to our

348
00:30:46,818 --> 00:30:52,518
psychotic tendencies because there's a lot of guilt like did i vote for the right candidate

349
00:30:52,518 --> 00:31:01,958
did i you know support good or evil and it's all false choices yeah because you're people

350
00:31:01,958 --> 00:31:04,418
your vote doesn't matter at this point

351
00:31:04,418 --> 00:31:05,678
it mattered

352
00:31:05,678 --> 00:31:08,338
before we

353
00:31:08,338 --> 00:31:10,218
got to this level

354
00:31:10,218 --> 00:31:12,158
of complexity and craziness

355
00:31:12,158 --> 00:31:13,938
now

356
00:31:13,938 --> 00:31:15,558
going to

357
00:31:15,558 --> 00:31:18,358
elections, casting your ballot

358
00:31:18,358 --> 00:31:20,458
it's a waste

359
00:31:20,458 --> 00:31:21,318
of your time

360
00:31:21,318 --> 00:31:23,858
it's

361
00:31:23,858 --> 00:31:25,798
you need

362
00:31:25,798 --> 00:31:28,178
you want to impact society

363
00:31:28,178 --> 00:31:29,218
in a good way

364
00:31:29,218 --> 00:31:36,258
recording this podcast will have way more impact

365
00:31:36,258 --> 00:31:44,678
for the society than you going and voting and for a lot of us bitcoiner is also

366
00:31:44,678 --> 00:31:53,458
staying humble stacking sats is much better political stance than going and campaigning for

367
00:31:53,458 --> 00:32:01,598
Kamala Harris because she's a morally better choice than Donald Trump is like no Trump is much

368
00:32:01,598 --> 00:32:08,178
better wrecking ball to the current system than Kamala is what I'm really interested in is like

369
00:32:08,178 --> 00:32:14,738
I don't want people to blame themselves and I don't want people to go red or blue

370
00:32:14,738 --> 00:32:24,538
as uh walker likes to say i feel a bit going like both hate you so get out of the false choice and

371
00:32:24,538 --> 00:32:32,318
focus on things that matter and and also do it in a way where it's productive so going back to

372
00:32:32,318 --> 00:32:39,578
where we started with this like people i'm not an honor you know i don't want to society to burn

373
00:32:39,578 --> 00:32:47,238
I want society to evolve and yeah that's what I'm doing and there's a flip side to it too it's like

374
00:32:47,238 --> 00:32:53,438
you if you if you enter if you go votes you're entertaining false decisions right but if you

375
00:32:53,438 --> 00:32:59,158
bitch about politics all day every day on twitter like you're also you're also feeding into that

376
00:32:59,158 --> 00:33:04,918
system so it's not like you can it's not like oh you you agree with it and you're participating in

377
00:33:04,918 --> 00:33:10,958
that's that's one form of participation but if you're spending your time and energy to say oh

378
00:33:10,958 --> 00:33:17,798
this is wrong and you should do this policy changes and spending time to even to to reject that

379
00:33:17,798 --> 00:33:24,518
that's participation too because you're giving your time and energy feeding into that system

380
00:33:24,518 --> 00:33:32,258
instead of giving your time and energy feeding onto the bitcoin standard yeah and that's one of

381
00:33:32,258 --> 00:33:40,258
the brutal things about the truth like everyone that's going towards the truth should understand

382
00:33:40,258 --> 00:33:52,798
one thing and that that truth is terrible it's uh truth is truth no truth is is brutal it's it's

383
00:33:52,798 --> 00:34:00,358
it's a state of perfection and once you reach that's true but once you reach that perfection

384
00:34:00,358 --> 00:34:09,479
Vivian so boring yeah it's one state like anything you if you move an inch

385
00:34:09,479 --> 00:34:16,298
in this direction you're going away from the truth as we go towards that perfection

386
00:34:16,298 --> 00:34:26,678
that's where it gets more complex and that's where you have to avoid as you imagine it it's

387
00:34:26,678 --> 00:34:33,959
it's a tree branch and then we gotta also let people go

388
00:34:33,959 --> 00:34:44,778
to dead tree branches that's how i see people that focus on politics like in 100 years

389
00:34:44,778 --> 00:34:53,919
who will remember who was the mayor of the it's you know pointless but it's not a real legacy

390
00:34:53,919 --> 00:34:59,818
yeah it's not a real legacy but there are people who find inspiration in that type of legacy

391
00:34:59,818 --> 00:35:06,538
like there are psychopaths that want to be you know control there for that they're not necessarily

392
00:35:06,538 --> 00:35:11,479
they're not necessarily after the legacy like i'm sure there are politicians that are there

393
00:35:11,479 --> 00:35:16,858
maybe many of them even that started off as good-hearted and want to do good want to leave

394
00:35:16,858 --> 00:35:23,838
legacy but at the same time it's also about power and it's about power it's like oh you you

395
00:35:23,838 --> 00:35:28,538
Because we're in this fiat society where you gain power in that system.

396
00:35:28,738 --> 00:35:38,698
And if you're traumatized, if you're traumatized as a person and you're insecure about yourself and you think, oh, and then they overtake, they mistaken power of security.

397
00:35:39,118 --> 00:35:41,758
And that's because of their trauma.

398
00:35:43,038 --> 00:35:52,758
I was, yeah, I was just about to apologize to all of you politicians watching this when it's like, OK, not all of you are psychopaths.

399
00:35:52,758 --> 00:35:54,658
But then when you end it, like, it's power.

400
00:35:54,919 --> 00:35:57,278
It's, well, maybe they are all psychopaths.

401
00:35:57,398 --> 00:36:00,098
But no, no, you're right.

402
00:36:00,198 --> 00:36:00,618
You're right.

403
00:36:00,959 --> 00:36:02,278
There are good people.

404
00:36:02,378 --> 00:36:06,499
I focus too much on the worst of us.

405
00:36:06,598 --> 00:36:09,838
There's things that used to serve us and protect us.

406
00:36:09,838 --> 00:36:13,519
And then as we level up or as the circumstances go on,

407
00:36:14,338 --> 00:36:20,979
you, that part that used to protect you need to change too.

408
00:36:21,058 --> 00:36:22,538
You need to grow out of that.

409
00:36:22,758 --> 00:36:27,638
and have new perspectives and this is the choice we're talking about right you need to gain

410
00:36:27,638 --> 00:36:33,238
perspectives along the way and know to use your new perspectives and to heal yourself along the

411
00:36:33,238 --> 00:36:40,919
way because otherwise otherwise you're acting from trauma you're you're and then and this is

412
00:36:40,919 --> 00:36:46,758
what trauma is actually if you think about it like you you grow up tough childhood and you have to

413
00:36:46,758 --> 00:36:52,838
survive it's a very pragmatic thing and in that process you didn't have a choice and you just

414
00:36:52,838 --> 00:36:59,959
naturally pick it up to to code of conduct right basically to survive and it's a it's brutal and

415
00:36:59,959 --> 00:37:06,358
you but this is how you survive for real and then over time and this is what you know and this is

416
00:37:06,358 --> 00:37:13,158
what what you learn and i've watched i've read this book um called the mountain is you and it's

417
00:37:13,158 --> 00:37:19,198
It's basically, it is a book of talking about self-sabotaging energy and how do you get rid of that.

418
00:37:21,419 --> 00:37:23,118
So I think good, good book.

419
00:37:23,118 --> 00:37:31,118
And one thing in that book kind of stuck with me is that people, human beings are not wired to go after happiness.

420
00:37:32,118 --> 00:37:34,618
That we are not wired to pursue happiness.

421
00:37:35,098 --> 00:37:37,519
We're wired to pursue comfort.

422
00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:49,178
and for for people for humans familiarity is comfort and this is why you see people stay in

423
00:37:49,178 --> 00:37:56,178
toxic relationships um stay in trauma stay in insecurity is not because they're enjoying it

424
00:37:56,178 --> 00:38:03,479
they're suffering they really are but but because that's how they grow up maybe they were abused as

425
00:38:03,479 --> 00:38:09,519
a kid and and whatever reason right and they're they're hurting and this is what they're used to

426
00:38:09,519 --> 00:38:16,298
and this is what they this is where they draw the reference bar in the world so that it's familiar

427
00:38:16,298 --> 00:38:21,818
they don't know better they don't know that there's something that's better that they could

428
00:38:21,818 --> 00:38:30,698
work towards so they stay look at me i i i thought this interview was about me but it's about you

429
00:38:30,698 --> 00:38:33,298
it's about everyone

430
00:38:33,298 --> 00:38:36,738
hello traumatized people

431
00:38:36,738 --> 00:38:37,979
it's about everyone

432
00:38:37,979 --> 00:38:39,939
because everybody is so freaking traumatized

433
00:38:39,939 --> 00:38:41,678
yeah yes but

434
00:38:41,678 --> 00:38:44,238
but these people are also

435
00:38:44,238 --> 00:38:45,979
yeah whiny bitches

436
00:38:45,979 --> 00:38:48,138
100%

437
00:38:48,138 --> 00:38:49,738
yeah listen

438
00:38:49,738 --> 00:38:52,439
also young people

439
00:38:52,439 --> 00:38:53,378
watching this

440
00:38:53,378 --> 00:38:56,459
we maybe it's also

441
00:38:56,459 --> 00:38:57,758
part of the programming

442
00:38:57,758 --> 00:38:59,578
you're programmed to think

443
00:38:59,578 --> 00:39:03,999
that your upbringing is special

444
00:39:03,999 --> 00:39:06,298
and that you suffered in unique ways,

445
00:39:06,858 --> 00:39:08,838
I'm telling you, Vivian,

446
00:39:08,939 --> 00:39:10,638
when I immigrated into the U.S.

447
00:39:11,238 --> 00:39:15,059
as someone that was bombed by U.S. and NATO,

448
00:39:15,059 --> 00:39:20,378
like it's a country bombed in Europe by NATO.

449
00:39:20,878 --> 00:39:21,519
Crazy.

450
00:39:22,019 --> 00:39:23,138
I thought, Vivian,

451
00:39:23,378 --> 00:39:25,539
that when I immigrated to U.S.,

452
00:39:25,539 --> 00:39:26,519
I will be,

453
00:39:26,519 --> 00:39:34,358
like everyone will cry when they hear my story and you know i will be the biggest well didn't

454
00:39:34,358 --> 00:39:40,218
approach it that way but now i look back at it and i think i'll be at the top of the victim list

455
00:39:40,218 --> 00:39:46,718
you know that's gonna give me special privileges but no like i come to u.s suddenly like everyone

456
00:39:46,718 --> 00:39:55,019
is a bigger victim than me and and actually they they are i immigrating into u.s i was so afraid

457
00:39:55,019 --> 00:40:01,919
that I know that these American young adults,

458
00:40:01,919 --> 00:40:04,278
they're paying hundreds of thousands of dollars

459
00:40:04,278 --> 00:40:05,678
for their degrees.

460
00:40:06,718 --> 00:40:10,238
And I was like, how will I compete in a job market with them?

461
00:40:10,798 --> 00:40:14,318
Because they must be going to this prestigious universities

462
00:40:14,318 --> 00:40:17,138
that are better than mine, where I'm coming from.

463
00:40:17,838 --> 00:40:20,178
And they will be so much smarter than me.

464
00:40:20,758 --> 00:40:24,419
Little did I know I immigrated into U.S.

465
00:40:24,419 --> 00:40:32,198
and they envy me with reason because like my education was better than theirs

466
00:40:32,198 --> 00:40:42,959
i i haven't even paid for that education like they have student debt i i'm like i come like

467
00:40:42,959 --> 00:40:48,298
oh i'm a victim they're like oh how much are you in debt for your studies i was like zero dollars

468
00:40:48,298 --> 00:40:55,578
what are you talking about like what's good in debt so so then you see the reverse american

469
00:40:55,578 --> 00:41:03,598
dream yeah american nightmare american nightmare it's like those kids they get out of college

470
00:41:03,598 --> 00:41:08,398
they have like hundred thousand dollars to return like the system is rigged against them

471
00:41:08,398 --> 00:41:16,318
and they are bigger bigger victims like okay i was bombed but no one that i really care about

472
00:41:16,318 --> 00:41:17,979
they died in the bond.

473
00:41:18,078 --> 00:41:20,718
I care about people. It's not to me. It's relative.

474
00:41:21,298 --> 00:41:22,378
And no family

475
00:41:22,378 --> 00:41:24,519
died. So I spent

476
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:24,898
that.

477
00:41:26,218 --> 00:41:28,419
They, on the other hand, they're like slaves

478
00:41:28,419 --> 00:41:30,519
to the system. So they are bigger

479
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:32,499
victims. So again,

480
00:41:32,598 --> 00:41:34,678
young people. The thing

481
00:41:34,678 --> 00:41:47,597
is any trauma that you seeing is just like you need it a it a torch it a pointer towards

482
00:41:47,597 --> 00:41:56,357
how do you go and how do you give a meaning to what you've been through yeah so for me again

483
00:41:56,357 --> 00:42:03,217
bitcoin came in and suddenly i was like well this gives a lot of meaning through to what

484
00:42:03,217 --> 00:42:11,357
I have been through and then as someone that can code I can contribute to this system in a unique

485
00:42:11,357 --> 00:42:21,277
way that others can but they don't want as like not many people want to become programmers and

486
00:42:21,277 --> 00:42:26,777
developers it's just like they're not excited by a prospect of sitting in front of computer like 16

487
00:42:26,777 --> 00:42:34,737
hours a day like i i am genuinely excited about the prospect of you know those matrices from the

488
00:42:34,737 --> 00:42:42,837
spike from the those spikes from the matrix that they can like plug into head i would do that you

489
00:42:42,837 --> 00:42:47,217
mean you would the matrix thing you would unplug it or you will plug it i would plug it you will

490
00:42:47,217 --> 00:42:55,257
plug it i would plug it and use it to code uh for the good of others so it like as soon as there is

491
00:42:55,257 --> 00:43:06,157
a way to stick a spike in your head and code i will do that because i understand that it's not

492
00:43:06,157 --> 00:43:13,117
a choice many would make but i would make that choice because it would amplify my abilities

493
00:43:13,117 --> 00:43:19,257
and i wanted as it amplifies like bitcoin is a worthy cause

494
00:43:19,257 --> 00:43:28,097
plus I think I do have a good structure because I I would stick it in my head as a rockstar dev

495
00:43:28,097 --> 00:43:36,317
but if I see that like I can't process everything that that ability brings

496
00:43:36,317 --> 00:43:44,217
hopefully I have a choice to unstick it from my head and uh take off mask and then

497
00:43:44,217 --> 00:43:47,577
step away from it.

498
00:43:47,577 --> 00:43:51,057
It seems like there has been a lot of alignment

499
00:43:51,057 --> 00:43:54,837
from your personal philosophy and Bitcoin

500
00:43:54,837 --> 00:43:55,977
from the very beginning.

501
00:43:56,737 --> 00:43:57,197
Yeah.

502
00:43:57,377 --> 00:44:00,317
So has Bitcoin changed you in any way?

503
00:44:00,957 --> 00:44:03,497
Yeah, it amplified me a lot.

504
00:44:04,717 --> 00:44:07,217
And again, I think it goes,

505
00:44:08,557 --> 00:44:12,657
right, continues the thread that we started.

506
00:44:12,817 --> 00:44:13,717
It's all about the sure.

507
00:44:13,717 --> 00:44:25,117
trauma problems but it's like as soon as you it clicks and you find a structure a system that

508
00:44:25,117 --> 00:44:33,457
uses it as a puzzle piece you know suddenly it's it's no longer trauma it's experience

509
00:44:33,457 --> 00:44:42,757
you know it's it's uh wisdom it's so a lot of people again get lost with that trauma puzzle

510
00:44:42,757 --> 00:44:50,177
piece and it's always there and you don't know how to put it into a bigger puzzle yeah but for for me

511
00:44:50,177 --> 00:45:01,397
i i really bitcoin has given me that and uh and it keeps giving that to me and also the fact that

512
00:45:01,397 --> 00:45:08,957
i managed to stay afloat with the identity of people also like why do you take your identity

513
00:45:08,957 --> 00:45:09,757
so seriously

514
00:45:09,757 --> 00:45:11,017
leave your mask up

515
00:45:11,017 --> 00:45:11,737
it's just like

516
00:45:11,737 --> 00:45:13,617
I found it helps me a lot

517
00:45:13,617 --> 00:45:15,557
once

518
00:45:15,557 --> 00:45:16,697
I do like

519
00:45:16,697 --> 00:45:17,797
take off mask

520
00:45:17,797 --> 00:45:18,097
and

521
00:45:18,097 --> 00:45:19,597
and move

522
00:45:19,597 --> 00:45:20,457
to

523
00:45:20,457 --> 00:45:21,837
private identity

524
00:45:21,837 --> 00:45:23,357
it's like

525
00:45:23,357 --> 00:45:24,417
so much

526
00:45:24,417 --> 00:45:27,137
more rich

527
00:45:27,137 --> 00:45:27,877
it's fulfilling

528
00:45:27,877 --> 00:45:28,997
because it's

529
00:45:28,997 --> 00:45:29,737
it's not this

530
00:45:29,737 --> 00:45:31,837
I don't know if I'm

531
00:45:31,837 --> 00:45:32,497
explaining that

532
00:45:32,497 --> 00:45:33,137
good way

533
00:45:33,137 --> 00:45:33,377
but

534
00:45:33,377 --> 00:45:34,417
the thing is

535
00:45:34,417 --> 00:45:36,957
I'm trying to say

536
00:45:36,957 --> 00:45:37,677
that I really

537
00:45:37,677 --> 00:45:38,697
encourage everyone

538
00:45:38,697 --> 00:45:46,377
to find that is it those traumas or just puzzle pieces find something that integrates it in a good

539
00:45:46,377 --> 00:45:53,557
way and yeah go from there there's a lot of people right and you get approached a lot and people

540
00:45:53,557 --> 00:46:01,117
know you and they look up to you and they come to take pictures and have you had maybe some people

541
00:46:01,117 --> 00:46:07,457
just came and really tried to like take off the mask yeah and be like cheeky about it and just

542
00:46:07,457 --> 00:46:11,817
like has it ever happened i mean it seems it crossed your mind

543
00:46:11,817 --> 00:46:21,117
because it because you know if they really want to and it sometimes it's chaotic right and you

544
00:46:21,117 --> 00:46:29,437
have a lot of people around you i mean i guess it came to mind to a lot of people but i think

545
00:46:29,437 --> 00:46:36,037
people understand it's like disrespectful yeah so but it definitely crossed your mind this and i

546
00:46:36,037 --> 00:46:45,997
understand it because it's a curiosity it is but it's it's also a power play it's like by doing that

547
00:46:45,997 --> 00:46:51,697
that's what we also do for each other in life is like you're helping other person take off the mask

548
00:46:51,697 --> 00:46:56,737
so you get them closer to truth that we're not okay that's the best type of relationship you can

549
00:46:56,737 --> 00:47:01,877
possibly get right like most people's no no most people's relationships are not not true

550
00:47:01,877 --> 00:47:13,277
some people listen no people people it's common dynamic yeah but let's go back to what i said

551
00:47:13,277 --> 00:47:22,457
the absolute truth is so far away that we will not reach it um you gotta understand also that

552
00:47:22,457 --> 00:47:26,597
for some people, they have found their sweet spot.

553
00:47:27,197 --> 00:47:33,657
So if you pull off their mask and you're like, well, this is you.

554
00:47:34,657 --> 00:47:36,477
Suddenly they're like, no, no, no.

555
00:47:36,697 --> 00:47:38,857
I don't want to be that.

556
00:47:39,897 --> 00:47:42,817
I like who I am now.

557
00:47:42,817 --> 00:47:43,817
Even mask.

558
00:47:44,137 --> 00:47:48,697
Even if I'm living with a lie, maybe I know it's a lie,

559
00:47:48,697 --> 00:47:58,417
but it's a lie that allows me to be true be be in my own truth right so

560
00:47:58,417 --> 00:48:03,637
so for some people it's like oh you know your mask is a covid lie

561
00:48:03,637 --> 00:48:10,017
so by but that's projection that's exactly what you said about being a mirror because they

562
00:48:10,017 --> 00:48:15,297
they when they see you they don't see you and they see whatever so in their mind yeah they see the

563
00:48:15,297 --> 00:48:19,477
mask and they think about COVID because they are thinking about COVID. I just see a mask. I don't

564
00:48:19,477 --> 00:48:28,057
think about COVID. Like many people I believe don't. And you see what you want to see and you

565
00:48:28,057 --> 00:48:34,617
see and by and by being faceless, wearing a mask and you can't see the actual face.

566
00:48:36,077 --> 00:48:42,477
That's that's you're providing space for interpretation. And this is this is where

567
00:48:42,477 --> 00:48:47,017
where people fill in the blank and when they don't have enough information they fill in the blank

568
00:48:47,017 --> 00:48:53,717
with their own imagination and whatever is going on in their mind so when they this is the mirror

569
00:48:53,717 --> 00:49:01,517
thing when they see you they don't see you they see themselves but they thought that they saw you

570
00:49:01,517 --> 00:49:12,077
and then they project and then they react to you or behave in front of you with that

571
00:49:12,077 --> 00:49:21,577
preconceived projection how do you feel about that it's the the identity thing allows you to be

572
00:49:21,577 --> 00:49:31,217
true to be in your own truth but there's a side effect for other people right right but but how

573
00:49:31,217 --> 00:49:37,697
are you handling the negative aspect because because you i bet so many times you were misunderstood

574
00:49:37,697 --> 00:49:40,517
and so many times you were

575
00:49:40,517 --> 00:49:42,677
disrespected

576
00:49:42,677 --> 00:49:43,577
maybe even

577
00:49:43,577 --> 00:49:45,557
because of the projection

578
00:49:45,557 --> 00:49:48,357
what do you feel about that

579
00:49:48,357 --> 00:49:51,057
that aspect of being a mirror

580
00:49:51,057 --> 00:49:54,117
because on one hand you help people

581
00:49:54,117 --> 00:49:56,477
yeah I now think about what you're saying

582
00:49:56,477 --> 00:49:58,897
is that act

583
00:49:58,897 --> 00:50:00,797
of pulling down my mask

584
00:50:00,797 --> 00:50:02,997
would be so much about the person

585
00:50:02,997 --> 00:50:03,457
more

586
00:50:03,457 --> 00:50:06,037
more about the person than about me

587
00:50:06,037 --> 00:50:07,317
yeah yeah yeah

588
00:50:07,317 --> 00:50:19,957
So I guess that's also the part of disrespect that people get is if they think about it, they're like, well, I realize it would be more about me than this person.

589
00:50:21,077 --> 00:50:31,057
On my end, I immediately, when you start talking about that, I think back on how much I have received from Bitcoin.

590
00:50:31,057 --> 00:50:32,717
so

591
00:50:32,717 --> 00:50:36,017
so I see it as

592
00:50:36,017 --> 00:50:38,877
the things that happen

593
00:50:38,877 --> 00:50:39,797
in that nature

594
00:50:39,797 --> 00:50:40,757
it's more like

595
00:50:40,757 --> 00:50:41,577
okay it's my

596
00:50:41,577 --> 00:50:43,117
service to Bitcoin

597
00:50:43,117 --> 00:50:43,957
and

598
00:50:43,957 --> 00:50:45,097
sacrifice

599
00:50:45,097 --> 00:50:47,717
would you put it that way

600
00:50:47,717 --> 00:50:48,477
well

601
00:50:48,477 --> 00:50:49,697
or just proof of work

602
00:50:49,697 --> 00:50:52,957
proof of work is better

603
00:50:52,957 --> 00:50:53,957
proof of work is better

604
00:50:53,957 --> 00:50:54,637
I agree

605
00:50:54,637 --> 00:50:56,617
because for me as well

606
00:50:56,617 --> 00:50:57,117
it's

607
00:50:57,117 --> 00:50:59,737
I'm now in a timeline

608
00:50:59,737 --> 00:51:05,417
in that branch of the tree where I could make all the wrong choices

609
00:51:05,417 --> 00:51:09,177
till the rest of their life and I would be good.

610
00:51:11,137 --> 00:51:15,277
I don't just have this identity.

611
00:51:15,917 --> 00:51:17,557
I have my private identity.

612
00:51:18,357 --> 00:51:21,497
You practice free throws so many times,

613
00:51:21,717 --> 00:51:24,637
like basketball, throwing the ball into the hoop,

614
00:51:24,957 --> 00:51:28,737
that if you're not like trying to miss, you will actually hit the shot.

615
00:51:28,737 --> 00:51:29,177
Yeah.

616
00:51:29,177 --> 00:51:34,997
So, and that's where, yeah, you're right.

617
00:51:35,137 --> 00:51:38,917
It is like my own programming of good choices.

618
00:51:39,657 --> 00:51:43,537
And I hope that as I'm, that's really all I'm doing right now.

619
00:51:43,537 --> 00:51:45,217
You're born with certain talents.

620
00:51:45,497 --> 00:51:52,217
And then again, you find a way to, your intelligence also can be very traumatizing.

621
00:51:52,697 --> 00:51:57,897
So a lot of, that was the funniest thing when I joined Mensa.

622
00:51:57,897 --> 00:52:01,497
like shout out to all you intelligent people in Mensa.

623
00:52:02,157 --> 00:52:05,337
You join that club and you're so proud.

624
00:52:06,357 --> 00:52:10,737
And you're like, you know, I'm going to hang out with other intelligent people.

625
00:52:10,897 --> 00:52:11,657
They're so smart.

626
00:52:12,177 --> 00:52:16,097
And then you find out like a lot of intelligent people are dumbasses

627
00:52:16,097 --> 00:52:20,777
because there is a huge difference between intelligence and wisdom.

628
00:52:21,037 --> 00:52:21,877
Oh, yeah, for sure.

629
00:52:22,077 --> 00:52:22,337
For sure.

630
00:52:22,337 --> 00:52:25,337
And there's an intelligent people can be extremely traumatized.

631
00:52:26,017 --> 00:52:27,377
And this is when you have villains.

632
00:52:27,897 --> 00:52:30,217
Yeah, because they live in their brain.

633
00:52:30,477 --> 00:52:33,777
The intelligence is a measure of how fast your brain works.

634
00:52:34,537 --> 00:52:38,357
So if you live in your brain and make it,

635
00:52:38,957 --> 00:52:42,877
the more you think about yourself, the more miserable you'll be.

636
00:52:43,737 --> 00:52:49,217
And especially if you have a high frequency CPU in your head

637
00:52:49,217 --> 00:52:51,517
and you start going into those loops again.

638
00:52:51,517 --> 00:52:55,897
Have you ever been in that phase where you're looping and you're lost in it?

639
00:52:56,137 --> 00:52:57,297
I never began.

640
00:52:57,557 --> 00:52:57,817
Never?

641
00:52:57,897 --> 00:52:59,177
I'm like, so perfect.

642
00:53:01,737 --> 00:53:15,397
See, this is where trauma of growing up in a civil war is in a weird way helpful because pain makes it real.

643
00:53:18,677 --> 00:53:27,517
And you just can't focus on the pain in your head when there is pain next to you that's physical.

644
00:53:27,897 --> 00:53:36,757
so so it's really weird now you know that i'm thinking about it and that that maybe goes to

645
00:53:36,757 --> 00:53:43,357
what i was saying with like the people are like wearing their traumas as a jewelry while really

646
00:53:43,357 --> 00:53:51,017
it's a puzzle piece that was like it's there for you to use it and transform into something yeah

647
00:53:51,017 --> 00:53:57,817
and this is why love is the cure this is why love is the cure because intelligent people

648
00:53:57,817 --> 00:54:02,177
when they're traumatized, they can't really unlock their power.

649
00:54:04,217 --> 00:54:07,077
Because they're trapped in their trauma.

650
00:54:07,577 --> 00:54:10,937
And if you heal that trauma with love, with hope, with light,

651
00:54:11,037 --> 00:54:14,217
then they can actually do something with their time and their intelligence

652
00:54:14,217 --> 00:54:16,877
and move into the direction of abundance.

653
00:54:18,397 --> 00:54:19,537
I know exactly.

654
00:54:20,757 --> 00:54:25,557
Ever since I saw the tagline of yours, love is the cure,

655
00:54:25,557 --> 00:54:38,157
i've been thinking about how cheeky how wrong how cliche how wrong it is i am cliche it's true

656
00:54:38,157 --> 00:54:45,597
but it's true i don't mind to be true and cliche the thing is i realize like i am i am now the

657
00:54:45,597 --> 00:54:52,617
awkward one pulling down your mask while the mask like love is the cure that you're wearing is

658
00:54:52,617 --> 00:55:00,317
actually it is maybe in your destiny that that's the message with which will resonate with a lot

659
00:55:00,317 --> 00:55:14,237
of people because love is not the cure for me but is love is the cure for you i think truth is the

660
00:55:14,237 --> 00:55:21,637
cure for you. I think truth for you lies deeper than love.

661
00:55:21,637 --> 00:55:29,757
Touché. This is where you fundamentally operate. Your fundamental level of operation is truth

662
00:55:29,757 --> 00:55:34,677
and my fundamental level of operation is love. And this is why...

663
00:55:34,677 --> 00:55:44,197
What we need, yeah. And this is why I guess... And they are different types of people that...

664
00:55:44,197 --> 00:55:46,297
Yeah, we serve different people as well.

665
00:55:46,477 --> 00:55:48,417
Yes, yes, yes.

666
00:55:48,657 --> 00:55:52,077
We serve as a part of a different tribe.

667
00:55:52,437 --> 00:55:53,297
Oh, yeah, yeah.

668
00:55:53,377 --> 00:55:54,697
But they all want the same thing.

669
00:55:54,777 --> 00:55:59,657
They all want the same thing, but they have different type of locks.

670
00:55:59,857 --> 00:56:01,357
They're on a different branch.

671
00:56:01,357 --> 00:56:04,677
Yeah, so you have to speak their language.

672
00:56:05,017 --> 00:56:11,097
Okay, so the good analogy is that on Earth you have language, you have culture.

673
00:56:11,097 --> 00:56:18,057
and but as humans we pretty much all want the same thing freedom connection love you know like

674
00:56:18,057 --> 00:56:25,337
food and the basic thing the hierarchy so many things i i think we just want one thing which is

675
00:56:25,337 --> 00:56:27,197
uh meaning

676
00:56:27,197 --> 00:56:35,157
it's do you still search for meaning in life i because i even stopped for a long time ago

677
00:56:35,157 --> 00:56:42,917
well uh i think you can't go against your programming it's also you're not only searching

678
00:56:42,917 --> 00:56:52,097
for meaning you are giving me oh yeah yeah so yeah big time so there is that and

679
00:56:52,097 --> 00:57:00,277
this is again why i think a lot of people are freaked out about what's happening with uh

680
00:57:00,277 --> 00:57:06,997
With Bitcoin as well, but with AI, it's because a big part of the meaning is agency.

681
00:57:07,717 --> 00:57:13,617
And with everything that's going on, the more complex our systems become,

682
00:57:13,837 --> 00:57:19,837
you are losing agency, you are losing ability to define even meaning for yourself.

683
00:57:20,017 --> 00:57:21,737
Others are defining it for you.

684
00:57:23,877 --> 00:57:24,277
So...

685
00:57:24,277 --> 00:57:24,357
Sovereignty.

686
00:57:25,177 --> 00:57:29,657
If you don't do it, if you don't make your own decisions, other people will make it for you.

687
00:57:29,657 --> 00:57:49,437
The thing is, and it's, again, that brutal part of the truth, is that if there is an individual that got the closest to the truth, behind this screen, as they do that, they gain power.

688
00:57:49,437 --> 00:57:57,017
and suddenly they can use that power to align all these other people

689
00:57:57,017 --> 00:57:59,937
and individuals who are further behind.

690
00:58:00,937 --> 00:58:04,037
And sometimes in very insidious ways.

691
00:58:04,637 --> 00:58:09,437
It's because if I am a hyper-intelligent mastermind,

692
00:58:10,397 --> 00:58:14,937
then what I'm about to say, like next 10 words,

693
00:58:14,937 --> 00:58:19,857
are going to program certain people to do certain things

694
00:58:19,857 --> 00:58:22,977
to start a certain butterfly effect.

695
00:58:23,277 --> 00:58:24,057
Yeah, big time.

696
00:58:24,077 --> 00:58:25,937
And yeah, I'm telling you,

697
00:58:25,997 --> 00:58:28,717
when you start talking about these topics,

698
00:58:29,237 --> 00:58:32,537
it always comes back to meaning for me.

699
00:58:33,357 --> 00:58:39,157
And everything else is kind of, well, it's complex,

700
00:58:39,157 --> 00:58:42,537
but a big part of it is that illusion of comfort

701
00:58:42,537 --> 00:58:44,397
that you were suggesting.

702
00:58:44,937 --> 00:58:53,917
and have you found the meaning of life like what does meaning mean to you right is it an abstract

703
00:58:53,917 --> 00:59:02,797
concept like or do you actually conceptualize it and meaning one meaning two and i leverage it

704
00:59:02,797 --> 00:59:11,237
yeah like the the knowledge that i have obtained yeah like i harness it for

705
00:59:11,237 --> 00:59:14,617
making my life more fun.

706
00:59:15,937 --> 00:59:17,917
Because once you do understand

707
00:59:17,917 --> 00:59:19,377
certain truths,

708
00:59:20,257 --> 00:59:22,877
then that is the best part of the truth.

709
00:59:23,917 --> 00:59:24,117
You know,

710
00:59:24,237 --> 00:59:25,917
two plus two is four.

711
00:59:26,797 --> 00:59:28,597
And you can leverage that

712
00:59:28,597 --> 00:59:30,697
to create certain patterns

713
00:59:30,697 --> 00:59:32,317
and

714
00:59:32,317 --> 00:59:35,937
have meaning,

715
00:59:36,937 --> 00:59:38,057
have fun,

716
00:59:38,377 --> 00:59:39,937
different things.

717
00:59:39,937 --> 00:59:42,657
So yeah, I found it to a certain degree.

718
00:59:43,257 --> 00:59:53,217
You were mentioning how when those events are put on and the way you put on Bitcoin Asia here in Hong Kong has been amazing, Vivian.

719
00:59:54,817 --> 01:00:04,397
So many people, the energy that was here, the people come to have those moments, meaningful moments.

720
01:00:04,397 --> 01:00:10,897
and they come equipped like all those uh cameras that they have here with like beautifying effects

721
01:00:10,897 --> 01:00:20,457
and stuff it's it's insane so i'm i'm telling you i've had so much fun here in hong kong

722
01:00:20,457 --> 01:00:31,077
and it it was very meaningful for me and all i hope is that my presence as well has given meaning

723
01:00:31,077 --> 01:00:35,057
to those people because I've enjoyed it immensely.

724
01:00:35,457 --> 01:00:43,477
I also don't want to feel guilty because I don't want to be in a position

725
01:00:43,477 --> 01:00:49,677
where I have taken because I have taken with those photos and moments.

726
01:00:49,677 --> 01:00:51,177
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

727
01:00:51,537 --> 01:00:57,597
So for all of you, I'll keep accessorizing myself

728
01:00:57,597 --> 01:01:04,797
So I'm better looking at your photos and hopefully that gives back in a meaningful way.

729
01:01:04,797 --> 01:01:08,797
Is there something that you went 180 because of Bitcoin?

730
01:01:11,277 --> 01:01:15,837
Fun. That's where I realized that maybe it is part of my trauma.

731
01:01:15,837 --> 01:01:20,797
I always thought I'm an introverted person growing up.

732
01:01:20,797 --> 01:01:32,377
and Bitcoin has made me realize that I'm very extroverted person and I don't

733
01:01:32,377 --> 01:01:42,337
care about tasks I care about people and it's when I see that you know people

734
01:01:42,337 --> 01:01:44,257
have fun, the people

735
01:01:44,257 --> 01:01:46,557
that I'm part of that.

736
01:01:47,237 --> 01:01:48,177
It's very

737
01:01:48,177 --> 01:01:49,897
meaningful for me.

738
01:01:51,917 --> 01:01:53,217
And then again,

739
01:01:53,617 --> 01:01:56,057
some part of me

740
01:01:56,057 --> 01:01:58,217
starts with a guilt. It's like, what does

741
01:01:58,217 --> 01:02:00,597
this have to do with your proof of work?

742
01:02:00,837 --> 01:02:01,677
You should be

743
01:02:01,677 --> 01:02:03,417
sitting down and coding.

744
01:02:04,077 --> 01:02:05,977
It also comes to my mind, but

745
01:02:05,977 --> 01:02:08,637
I also do that

746
01:02:08,637 --> 01:02:11,117
with

747
01:02:11,117 --> 01:02:15,117
Yeah, Bitcoin has given me too much, Vivian.

748
01:02:15,117 --> 01:02:16,117
Too much?

749
01:02:16,117 --> 01:02:20,117
Yeah, and I'm realizing how much I need to integrate.

750
01:02:20,117 --> 01:02:23,117
Yeah, now the shadow work is catching up.

751
01:02:23,117 --> 01:02:35,695
Yeah because you see also everything that I have coded over the years This conference has also been special in that regard

752
01:02:35,935 --> 01:02:42,315
Like I'm in the middle of the conference and I'm launching a protocol for wallet import with Samson.

753
01:02:42,875 --> 01:02:43,755
Samrock Protocol.

754
01:02:43,755 --> 01:02:44,195
Congratulations.

755
01:02:45,415 --> 01:02:46,215
Thank you.

756
01:02:46,235 --> 01:02:46,835
Great name.

757
01:02:47,235 --> 01:02:49,575
Yeah, then people are like, well, that's so vain.

758
01:02:49,595 --> 01:02:50,495
Makes me smile.

759
01:02:50,775 --> 01:02:51,715
That's vain.

760
01:02:52,015 --> 01:02:54,955
Samrock, Samson Rockstar, you guys.

761
01:02:54,995 --> 01:03:03,535
but it's shamrock as well it's very lucky so we have that and it's gonna improve the ux

762
01:03:03,535 --> 01:03:09,155
well come on you made this you have to you're entitled to make whatever title

763
01:03:09,155 --> 01:03:15,255
it is right you made the technology just enjoy the technology why do i do it why do i turn it

764
01:03:15,255 --> 01:03:21,735
into fun you know there is some trauma behind that right yeah let me backtrack a little bit

765
01:03:21,735 --> 01:03:28,775
one thing i've learned this past year that really served me is that you you can have both the

766
01:03:28,775 --> 01:03:36,435
mentality of you can have both um growing up i was very being a pragmatic and realistic and

767
01:03:36,435 --> 01:03:43,615
for for voluntary and non-volunteer reasons i you i knew that there was the trade there's always

768
01:03:43,615 --> 01:03:49,055
the trade-off there's no free lunch there's always a trade-off and you if you want this if you have

769
01:03:49,055 --> 01:03:54,455
this maybe you can't have that and you have to pick and choose and make peace with it and as someone

770
01:03:54,455 --> 01:04:00,415
who prioritizes peace i've learned that if you can't you give you can't have both just pick your

771
01:04:00,415 --> 01:04:05,875
priority focus on that and let go of the rest and then i thought that was the way

772
01:04:05,875 --> 01:04:13,755
well it still is it still is but but if you have two things in front of you or three things in

773
01:04:13,755 --> 01:04:20,635
front of you that are equally important to you then if it's 50 50 it's equal it's truly equally

774
01:04:20,635 --> 01:04:28,195
important where it's like 51 and 49 that how how do you yeah how do you how do you choose between

775
01:04:28,195 --> 01:04:35,135
the two and be happy about it because it's half of you it's half of you and i struggle to to to

776
01:04:35,135 --> 01:04:42,675
find a way to choose to make up my mind and be happy because because it's too much of me that

777
01:04:42,675 --> 01:04:48,935
I'm giving up if I choose but what I've realized this past year is that you you can't have both

778
01:04:48,935 --> 01:04:54,495
you can't have both you can't have love and freedom you can't be expressive and be private

779
01:04:54,495 --> 01:05:02,855
but the catch the catch here is that you need to level up to to to to get there increase the

780
01:05:02,855 --> 01:05:08,895
frequency yes exactly and it's like playing a video game and if you're a level five player

781
01:05:08,895 --> 01:05:13,735
there are certain boss in the game that you're not going to be able to beat there are certain

782
01:05:13,735 --> 01:05:19,595
things that you're not be able to going to be able to do at level five but at level 10 you might

783
01:05:19,595 --> 01:05:26,115
and at level 15 yeah and then you encounter bigger bosses and you can have more things at the same

784
01:05:26,115 --> 01:05:32,955
time as you as you level up then then it's like oh my god if that's the case then i just need to

785
01:05:32,955 --> 01:05:38,195
level up i just need to improve myself and to the point that if i truly want boss then that's the way

786
01:05:38,195 --> 01:05:46,675
and then it comes down to the proof of work well it also comes down to the specific character that

787
01:05:46,675 --> 01:05:58,375
you are because you and then people like you for who love is the cure you have a level

788
01:05:58,375 --> 01:06:07,795
thousand boss in your head i have a what a level thousand boss in your head so and it's an imaginary

789
01:06:07,795 --> 01:06:13,975
boss so as soon as you like start paying less attention to it suddenly you have way more bandwidth

790
01:06:13,975 --> 01:06:23,855
to choose these things because you are you are yeah overthinking a lot of things so

791
01:06:23,855 --> 01:06:34,095
so i think you maybe maybe you you have level 10 000 boss in your head and uh this is again

792
01:06:34,095 --> 01:06:41,755
where we do come back to a lot of people do and you are representative and representation

793
01:06:41,755 --> 01:06:50,655
of those people so more power to you vivian and spread that message because

794
01:06:50,655 --> 01:06:57,275
yeah you're right like as we increase frequency you have more bandwidth

795
01:06:57,275 --> 01:07:00,495
and it's also a part of the system we are

796
01:07:00,495 --> 01:07:02,855
because my frequency and bandwidth

797
01:07:02,855 --> 01:07:05,555
has been amplified by Bitcoin

798
01:07:05,555 --> 01:07:11,235
and suddenly I can be at the conference in Hong Kong

799
01:07:11,235 --> 01:07:16,135
I could have this interview with you

800
01:07:16,135 --> 01:07:21,615
I can program people watching this

801
01:07:21,615 --> 01:07:30,755
like I can you know get to my hotel I can program actually push something to GitHub

802
01:07:30,755 --> 01:07:40,275
so it's we're all benefiting from this technological advancement we're part of

803
01:07:40,275 --> 01:07:46,275
and we get to do more and you chose that path you could have done you chose you could have done very

804
01:07:46,275 --> 01:07:54,635
different things with bitcoin yes but but also that pat chooses us is like we have no option but

805
01:07:54,635 --> 01:08:00,795
to advance with everything that's happening again going back to something that can be a big part of

806
01:08:00,795 --> 01:08:10,535
our conversation ai is it people that are not using ai will simply lose bandwidth to people that do

807
01:08:10,535 --> 01:08:14,175
But at the same time, there's a flip side of that.

808
01:08:14,275 --> 01:08:16,775
It's how much do we push the AI agenda?

809
01:08:16,855 --> 01:08:21,335
How much do we leverage AI as a tool without losing the substance of being human?

810
01:08:21,595 --> 01:08:31,015
Because when it comes to art, when it comes to the things that represent who we are as human and what humanity is,

811
01:08:31,015 --> 01:08:33,615
and if you leverage

812
01:08:33,615 --> 01:08:35,535
AI to do that interpretation

813
01:08:35,535 --> 01:08:37,255
for you then

814
01:08:37,255 --> 01:08:39,875
that's so tragic

815
01:08:39,875 --> 01:08:41,395
for humanity I would say

816
01:08:41,395 --> 01:08:43,355
because for me

817
01:08:43,355 --> 01:08:45,255
originality means so much

818
01:08:45,255 --> 01:08:47,675
you're right that

819
01:08:47,675 --> 01:08:49,435
it's extremely

820
01:08:49,435 --> 01:08:51,335
scary seeing

821
01:08:51,335 --> 01:08:53,475
how AI is taking

822
01:08:53,475 --> 01:08:54,695
away our agency

823
01:08:54,695 --> 01:08:57,415
and one of the

824
01:08:57,415 --> 01:08:59,115
intriguing

825
01:08:59,115 --> 01:09:00,835
branches in the tree

826
01:09:00,835 --> 01:09:05,235
of the future that I find is like all these people that are

827
01:09:05,915 --> 01:09:13,495
emigrating to Costa Rica and doing like Bitcoin jungle and they're going back to the nature

828
01:09:13,495 --> 01:09:22,455
kind of leveraging technology to record their Instagram videos and stuff but but then like

829
01:09:22,455 --> 01:09:27,995
rejecting that technology as well like keeping it at bay making it clear that

830
01:09:27,995 --> 01:09:34,595
they don't want to be part of that system unlike for example me who going back to what i said

831
01:09:34,595 --> 01:09:41,455
technology like i'm gonna wear it i'm gonna use it oh yeah i'm gonna you know stick it in my head

832
01:09:41,455 --> 01:09:49,815
so again i i go that's a thought through decision like most people have not reached a level of

833
01:09:49,815 --> 01:09:56,295
self-understanding to to make that decision so they were they're just yes but it also goes to

834
01:09:56,295 --> 01:10:06,535
what I was saying it's those of us that use AI and manage to stay on the on on the level of

835
01:10:06,535 --> 01:10:16,755
maintaining your agency through seeing it in other people like I'm not also I'm always trying to

836
01:10:16,755 --> 01:10:24,535
to get input of other people around me because I do think I maintain agency but if someone comes

837
01:10:24,535 --> 01:10:27,135
and says, no, no, you're doing this wrong, you're doing that wrong.

838
01:10:27,895 --> 01:10:34,375
I think that's also another great way that I'm sure it's not that AI is controlling me,

839
01:10:34,895 --> 01:10:37,535
it's that I'm still in control of AI.

840
01:10:37,535 --> 01:10:41,535
And one of the funniest things that always comes to my mind,

841
01:10:42,255 --> 01:10:47,675
if you go to AI and you ask, who is Rockstar developer in Bitcoin?

842
01:10:48,755 --> 01:10:50,275
I have programmed AI.

843
01:10:50,575 --> 01:10:52,975
It will give you, you know, this idea.

844
01:10:52,975 --> 01:10:57,535
If you type in my government first name, last name,

845
01:10:57,655 --> 01:11:00,875
I have no idea who that person is.

846
01:11:01,995 --> 01:11:06,795
So, yeah, it goes back to what I told you,

847
01:11:07,235 --> 01:11:10,275
meaning agency, maintaining it,

848
01:11:10,335 --> 01:11:14,455
and then making sure that society becomes more complex

849
01:11:14,455 --> 01:11:19,415
as your bandwidth increases without your choice.

850
01:11:19,415 --> 01:11:31,015
you keep the level of enlightenment so that it serves you you don't serve it like you're not

851
01:11:31,015 --> 01:11:41,195
forced to do things that is not you uh you are not forced to run a rat race and work two jobs

852
01:11:41,195 --> 01:11:46,835
and be pummeled into certain, you know, system.

853
01:11:46,835 --> 01:11:49,895
And this is, again, we spoke.

854
01:11:50,635 --> 01:11:52,635
I see also in your notes, ego.

855
01:11:53,155 --> 01:12:00,095
I actually think ego plays a big part in protecting yourself

856
01:12:00,095 --> 01:12:04,195
and making sure that you do have agency.

857
01:12:05,315 --> 01:12:07,975
And speaking of agency, Uncle Rockstar Dev,

858
01:12:07,975 --> 01:12:11,035
seemingly random words

859
01:12:11,035 --> 01:12:12,695
grouped together.

860
01:12:13,895 --> 01:12:14,615
Why uncle?

861
01:12:15,135 --> 01:12:16,395
Why Bitcoin uncle?

862
01:12:16,735 --> 01:12:18,015
Why not Bitcoin dad?

863
01:12:18,155 --> 01:12:18,955
Bitcoin son?

864
01:12:19,395 --> 01:12:20,995
Or Bitcoin superman?

865
01:12:21,395 --> 01:12:22,415
You know what I mean?

866
01:12:22,475 --> 01:12:23,335
Why uncle?

867
01:12:23,495 --> 01:12:23,915
Why uncle?

868
01:12:24,275 --> 01:12:24,695
Yeah.

869
01:12:25,055 --> 01:12:25,475
Well,

870
01:12:25,975 --> 01:12:27,455
nephews and nieces happen.

871
01:12:28,455 --> 01:12:28,775
Right?

872
01:12:29,155 --> 01:12:29,575
Yeah.

873
01:12:29,575 --> 01:12:30,955
There were

874
01:12:30,955 --> 01:12:35,215
individuals in Bitcoin

875
01:12:35,215 --> 01:12:57,295
who came to me and started with all k-ank and I liked it. I found meaning in it.

876
01:12:57,295 --> 01:13:10,295
What's the meaning in it? It's that you are useful, you know, that you are able to help.

877
01:13:10,295 --> 01:13:15,295
Uncles are useful? Yeah, yeah. If you don't have uncles, you don't have any.

878
01:13:15,295 --> 01:13:20,295
I have uncles, but my first impression of them are not useless.

879
01:13:20,295 --> 01:13:26,095
This is not the first one that would come to my mind when I think about uncle.

880
01:13:26,095 --> 01:13:31,095
You need better uncles, you need to collect rare uncles.

881
01:13:31,095 --> 01:13:34,295
Shawn, we need to get her on rare uncles.

882
01:13:34,295 --> 01:13:39,295
Well, you obtained the Uncle Rocks or Dev figurines, it's a rare uncle.

883
01:13:39,295 --> 01:13:41,295
Yeah, right, yes, I do have one.

884
01:13:41,295 --> 01:13:43,475
So, no, it worked.

885
01:13:44,195 --> 01:13:50,795
If you look at Jack Mallers, he started kind of the meme.

886
01:13:51,335 --> 01:13:55,415
He started so many things, but he was the one that was,

887
01:13:55,415 --> 01:13:58,695
Hey, Young, what do you think about this?

888
01:13:58,815 --> 01:14:03,135
Hey, Young, I have Zach as a startup.

889
01:14:03,355 --> 01:14:07,575
He's a nonprofit project like FOSS.

890
01:14:07,655 --> 01:14:09,235
I want to turn it into startup.

891
01:14:09,235 --> 01:14:14,095
I see what you've done with Nicholas Dornier, BTC Pay Server.

892
01:14:14,535 --> 01:14:16,395
I know you have startup experience.

893
01:14:17,155 --> 01:14:18,755
Come on, Ankh, help me out.

894
01:14:20,295 --> 01:14:27,975
So, yeah, there is this blog post where he talks about how Bitcoin community has became his family.

895
01:14:29,275 --> 01:14:33,195
And when he's feeling overwhelmed, he reaches out to people.

896
01:14:33,195 --> 01:14:39,975
and how he reached out to me to help him evaluate Zap Android.

897
01:14:41,335 --> 01:14:47,075
So, yeah, again, a lot of people think, like, I have chosen.

898
01:14:47,075 --> 01:14:51,575
Like, I didn't want to be Bitcoin Superman, Bitcoin uncle.

899
01:14:52,175 --> 01:14:58,835
But it happened with him and then the staff pitch Bitcoin.

900
01:14:59,275 --> 01:15:01,335
She was also uncle.

901
01:15:01,335 --> 01:15:03,535
she's doing

902
01:15:03,535 --> 01:15:05,275
a great job with

903
01:15:05,275 --> 01:15:07,515
developing each Bitcoin

904
01:15:07,515 --> 01:15:09,375
and there are others

905
01:15:09,375 --> 01:15:11,595
like them in Bitcoin that

906
01:15:11,595 --> 01:15:12,875
now

907
01:15:12,875 --> 01:15:15,715
also I think it's also

908
01:15:15,715 --> 01:15:17,755
people are scanning me. They see

909
01:15:17,755 --> 01:15:19,775
the success my nephews and

910
01:15:19,775 --> 01:15:20,515
nieces had

911
01:15:20,515 --> 01:15:23,855
and they're like hey Ankh do that

912
01:15:23,855 --> 01:15:25,555
for me. I want

913
01:15:25,555 --> 01:15:27,475
a billion dollar company

914
01:15:27,475 --> 01:15:29,495
do your little nudge

915
01:15:29,495 --> 01:15:31,315
so but

916
01:15:31,335 --> 01:15:36,715
And again, I want to be useful.

917
01:15:37,915 --> 01:15:48,695
And even, maybe it's too harsh, but I want to be used.

918
01:15:51,335 --> 01:15:57,335
Maybe not in, you know, like there is a certain line where it's too much,

919
01:15:58,335 --> 01:16:00,915
but I want to contribute.

920
01:16:01,335 --> 01:16:04,695
And if I can do that and...

921
01:16:04,695 --> 01:16:06,095
You want to serve.

922
01:16:07,175 --> 01:16:08,015
You want to serve.

923
01:16:08,595 --> 01:16:11,615
Vivian, you always say it's so much better if I could take.

924
01:16:13,135 --> 01:16:14,235
Present it better.

925
01:16:14,695 --> 01:16:16,215
This is what I said.

926
01:16:16,775 --> 01:16:26,355
Why I said part of the mask is you're maybe subconsciously trying to give without trauma.

927
01:16:26,655 --> 01:16:29,735
Because if you don't have a face, if you don't have an identity,

928
01:16:29,735 --> 01:16:37,575
then your bitcoin identity doesn't have the trauma you have as a person and you're trying to

929
01:16:37,575 --> 01:16:44,715
protect bitcoin you're trying to protect your work in bitcoin by separating yourself and your

930
01:16:44,715 --> 01:16:53,015
bitcoin can your bitcoin identity so that you don't let trauma see to my private identity as well

931
01:16:53,015 --> 01:16:55,015
That's the thing.

932
01:16:55,015 --> 01:16:58,015
Yeah, you're right.

933
01:16:58,015 --> 01:17:04,015
By having a Bitcoin identity, again, it can go to zero.

934
01:17:04,015 --> 01:17:06,015
My private identity will survive.

935
01:17:06,015 --> 01:17:10,015
And a lot of people don't have that luxury.

936
01:17:10,015 --> 01:17:22,015
So for me, my Bitcoin identity is now so formed that I can afford even it dying.

937
01:17:22,015 --> 01:17:23,655
It's like ego debt.

938
01:17:23,855 --> 01:17:25,755
Uncle Rockstar debt.

939
01:17:25,855 --> 01:17:26,495
Why Rockstar?

940
01:17:28,415 --> 01:17:33,775
I just loved what Nicholas Dorrier was doing with BTC Pay Server.

941
01:17:35,295 --> 01:17:42,655
And he was posting on Twitter back then, like X now, in 2017.

942
01:17:42,655 --> 01:17:48,515
and he was doing the whole BitPay,

943
01:17:49,335 --> 01:17:52,255
launching the whole campaign of forcing merchants.

944
01:17:53,255 --> 01:17:55,555
For those that don't know, they can watch

945
01:17:55,555 --> 01:17:56,975
My Trust in You is Broken.

946
01:17:57,135 --> 01:17:58,835
It's a BTC Pay server documentary

947
01:17:58,835 --> 01:18:02,615
where Parker explains it so much better to the video.

948
01:18:02,735 --> 01:18:05,415
But anyways, Nicholas was doing the whole

949
01:18:05,415 --> 01:18:06,295
This is lies.

950
01:18:06,435 --> 01:18:07,755
My trust in you is broken.

951
01:18:08,035 --> 01:18:11,855
I will make you obsolete to BitPay, a big company.

952
01:18:11,855 --> 01:18:13,455
and then he was posting on Twitter.

953
01:18:14,455 --> 01:18:18,355
And I wanted to support that like so many other people.

954
01:18:19,355 --> 01:18:24,755
But I didn't have an account.

955
01:18:25,235 --> 01:18:31,275
And I created an account on Twitter just to repost Nicholas,

956
01:18:31,415 --> 01:18:32,735
like click repost and like.

957
01:18:32,735 --> 01:18:33,195
Oh, really?

958
01:18:33,415 --> 01:18:37,975
Yeah, and I comment to boost his voice.

959
01:18:37,975 --> 01:18:41,595
and I needed to come up with

960
01:18:41,595 --> 01:18:43,735
okay what is it called

961
01:18:43,735 --> 01:18:44,175
because

962
01:18:44,175 --> 01:18:46,115
something has to be there

963
01:18:46,115 --> 01:18:47,175
yeah and

964
01:18:47,175 --> 01:18:50,915
we'll leave it up to

965
01:18:50,915 --> 01:18:53,655
people invested in Rockstar Dev

966
01:18:53,655 --> 01:18:55,475
I had different names

967
01:18:55,475 --> 01:18:57,715
but in the end

968
01:18:57,715 --> 01:18:59,095
because I was also starting

969
01:18:59,095 --> 01:19:00,855
to code with Nicholas

970
01:19:00,855 --> 01:19:02,535
I was

971
01:19:02,535 --> 01:19:04,955
like okay

972
01:19:04,955 --> 01:19:07,055
I can be a Rockstar developer

973
01:19:07,055 --> 01:19:12,395
because there is this comic book where companies you know how companies go we're hiring a rockstar

974
01:19:12,395 --> 01:19:22,415
developer to join our team right and uh there is funny yeah a comic that goes like the guy

975
01:19:22,415 --> 01:19:27,715
joins the job interview and they're like we are hiring a rockstar developer to join our team

976
01:19:27,715 --> 01:19:34,355
so the guy like takes the monitor like slams it out of the window like shoots his

977
01:19:34,355 --> 01:19:40,935
drugs it passes out and the two interviewers they're looking like oh he's good like he's high

978
01:19:40,935 --> 01:19:47,835
rockstar developer and uh rockstar what does it mean to you people call you rockstar and they

979
01:19:47,835 --> 01:19:55,395
it's it's getting more and more complex is as i said with the whole journey towards the truth

980
01:19:55,395 --> 01:20:03,595
increases complexity so there is uncle component to it that we touch yes there is rockstar component

981
01:20:03,595 --> 01:20:13,795
there is a developer component so now i'm in this three fork where it goes

982
01:20:13,795 --> 01:20:24,055
often against each other people that are my fellow developers they're like well rockstar is not

983
01:20:24,055 --> 01:20:32,455
coding and pushing git commits he's a rockstar giving an interview to vivian

984
01:20:32,455 --> 01:20:44,055
and uh then my one of my bitcoin nieces is he's not spending time with me i since

985
01:20:44,055 --> 01:20:55,355
is it yeah okay um so the thing is like increased complexity brings all of these

986
01:20:55,355 --> 01:21:01,675
quote-unquote problems but i i guess it's it's going back to what i said like everything that

987
01:21:01,675 --> 01:21:11,495
has success it just breeds new class of problems and as long as you're continuing to be on your

988
01:21:11,495 --> 01:21:18,855
path towards the truth and you're having fun it's all good right now uncle rockstar dev

989
01:21:18,855 --> 01:21:25,315
which one do you lean into the most if they're competing if they're competing with each other

990
01:21:25,315 --> 01:21:30,115
how do you how do you conceptualize it is it is it like a percentage you're you're

991
01:21:30,115 --> 01:21:38,455
20% uncalled 80% uncalled or 50% and then it's a makeup 100% where it's like dynamic

992
01:21:38,455 --> 01:21:47,295
like liver and it's always changing i feel like you're almost getting me to that what is it like

993
01:21:47,295 --> 01:21:58,135
a lot of marry kill game i need to pick yeah like which one yes yes okay let's actually do that

994
01:21:58,135 --> 01:22:02,275
let's actually you give me a great idea well you brought this out to yourself let's do it

995
01:22:02,275 --> 01:22:08,915
uncle rocks are deaf which one would you marry kill and which one was the other one oh kiss

996
01:22:08,915 --> 01:22:19,095
kiss kiss marry kill kiss marry kill yeah okay much better because he component of fun always

997
01:22:19,095 --> 01:22:25,075
makes its way in oh yeah yeah because the oh yeah you're right you're right because the kiss is the

998
01:22:25,075 --> 01:22:33,155
fun oh my god that makes sense that makes sense okay kiss marry kill uncle rocks are dead

999
01:22:33,155 --> 01:22:37,535
you asked yourself that question so you have to answer now

1000
01:22:37,535 --> 01:22:41,455
Well let's start with the kiss. Let's start with the kiss.

1001
01:22:43,695 --> 01:22:47,935
Okay let's unpack what we say. The rock star. Yeah I would kiss rock star.

1002
01:22:47,935 --> 01:22:51,695
Yeah that's the fun. Rock star is the fun. Yeah that's the kiss.

1003
01:22:54,015 --> 01:22:59,135
Then there's the heart. I think this is where you're... this is yeah this is the real question here.

1004
01:23:00,335 --> 01:23:04,735
It's a coin toss.

1005
01:23:04,735 --> 01:23:08,575
But see, this comes back to my point.

1006
01:23:08,575 --> 01:23:10,575
Because it's commitment.

1007
01:23:10,575 --> 01:23:13,935
This comes back to my point that you can't have both.

1008
01:23:13,935 --> 01:23:19,935
Because right now I'm asking you which one do you marry, which one do you kill?

1009
01:23:19,993 --> 01:23:23,793
Yeah, because it is essentially, it's literally the commitment.

1010
01:23:25,193 --> 01:23:26,933
Yeah, because you only have so much time.

1011
01:23:27,933 --> 01:23:30,013
Yeah, I'm getting older.

1012
01:23:31,613 --> 01:23:33,173
We all are, we all are.

1013
01:23:34,533 --> 01:23:37,613
Okay, so do you think it's going to be one or the other

1014
01:23:37,613 --> 01:23:44,293
where you think there's some sort of balance or dynamic that can be achieved?

1015
01:23:45,573 --> 01:23:46,773
That you can be able to achieve?

1016
01:23:46,773 --> 01:23:52,853
I'm going to achieve the balance and keep the balance for as long as I can.

1017
01:23:55,473 --> 01:24:01,913
But there is that realization, again, going back to the harsh truth that

1018
01:24:01,913 --> 01:24:11,113
you're going to be dragged towards perfection and ultimate absolute truth,

1019
01:24:11,113 --> 01:24:13,073
whether you want it or not.

1020
01:24:13,073 --> 01:24:18,993
not. And if you don't find your place in the structure of the universe, that place will be

1021
01:24:18,993 --> 01:24:30,193
found for you. So let me, Vivian, let me enjoy the lie of not having to choose between uncle and dev

1022
01:24:31,073 --> 01:24:39,553
because I realize definitely it will be a coin toss. And it will be a choice and I know which

1023
01:24:39,553 --> 01:24:40,493
which one you should choose.

1024
01:24:40,853 --> 01:24:45,273
I mean, you know which one I should choose, but for me...

1025
01:24:45,273 --> 01:24:47,713
I know which one you should choose for you.

1026
01:24:47,853 --> 01:24:48,713
Okay, which one?

1027
01:24:49,193 --> 01:24:49,473
Uncle.

1028
01:24:51,313 --> 01:24:52,573
I will tell you why.

1029
01:24:52,673 --> 01:24:56,333
For you personally, for your peace and happiness and fun.

1030
01:24:56,873 --> 01:24:58,713
And I do think you can have both.

1031
01:24:59,073 --> 01:25:01,593
It comes back to the leveling up thing.

1032
01:25:01,893 --> 01:25:03,793
There's always a path towards perfection.

1033
01:25:03,793 --> 01:25:07,413
And it just means now you need to level up so that you can have both

1034
01:25:07,413 --> 01:25:09,293
and do good and be happy.

1035
01:25:09,553 --> 01:25:18,553
I think it's possible. You can have all three and it just takes leveling up and finding the right environment and finding the right community.

1036
01:25:18,553 --> 01:25:22,553
Because uncle is community.

1037
01:25:24,553 --> 01:25:29,553
You should leave this in because, yeah, you actually helped give me an answer.

1038
01:25:29,553 --> 01:25:31,713
I agree, I'll marry

1039
01:25:31,713 --> 01:25:33,213
uncle, I'll kill

1040
01:25:33,213 --> 01:25:35,873
because by being

1041
01:25:35,873 --> 01:25:38,113
an uncle I can still

1042
01:25:38,113 --> 01:25:39,173
help

1043
01:25:39,173 --> 01:25:41,633
developers have a bigger impact

1044
01:25:41,633 --> 01:25:43,773
and it's almost as if

1045
01:25:43,773 --> 01:25:45,113
I am coding

1046
01:25:45,113 --> 01:25:46,393
Right

1047
01:25:46,393 --> 01:25:49,553
and you were saying that you were

1048
01:25:49,553 --> 01:25:51,633
an extroverted person actually

1049
01:25:51,633 --> 01:25:53,753
about people and dev

1050
01:25:53,753 --> 01:25:55,773
you code by yourself

1051
01:25:55,773 --> 01:25:57,113
and

1052
01:25:57,113 --> 01:26:00,473
isolation

1053
01:26:00,473 --> 01:26:03,013
you do good work

1054
01:26:03,013 --> 01:26:05,053
right but I can see

1055
01:26:05,053 --> 01:26:05,633
that you're

1056
01:26:05,633 --> 01:26:08,273
you like people

1057
01:26:08,273 --> 01:26:09,353
you enjoy

1058
01:26:09,353 --> 01:26:11,433
interactions

1059
01:26:11,433 --> 01:26:14,253
especially when it's

1060
01:26:14,253 --> 01:26:15,213
stimulating

1061
01:26:15,213 --> 01:26:17,473
intellectually

1062
01:26:17,473 --> 01:26:20,473
Vivian thank you for

1063
01:26:20,473 --> 01:26:22,513
helping me realize

1064
01:26:22,513 --> 01:26:23,613
who I should marry

1065
01:26:23,613 --> 01:26:25,233
and

1066
01:26:25,233 --> 01:26:31,533
And dear viewers, if you're ever in a need to know who to marry, come to Vivian.

1067
01:26:31,993 --> 01:26:34,213
She will help you realize.

1068
01:26:35,253 --> 01:26:35,653
So, yeah.

1069
01:26:36,013 --> 01:26:40,313
Stop killing your ego and call it healing.

1070
01:26:40,713 --> 01:26:41,113
Yes.

1071
01:26:41,773 --> 01:26:42,233
Okay.

1072
01:26:42,673 --> 01:26:44,673
Can you explain what you mean?

1073
01:26:44,933 --> 01:26:45,913
Yes, absolutely.

1074
01:26:45,913 --> 01:26:50,593
because I was mentioning ego

1075
01:26:50,593 --> 01:26:58,513
and how important it is for you as individual

1076
01:26:58,513 --> 01:27:05,393
because as we're all dragged towards the ultimate truth

1077
01:27:05,393 --> 01:27:08,013
and against our will as well,

1078
01:27:08,013 --> 01:27:12,593
we end up

1079
01:27:12,593 --> 01:27:17,213
being like losing our sovereignty in a sense

1080
01:27:17,213 --> 01:27:20,873
and what I realized

1081
01:27:20,873 --> 01:27:24,593
is that universe

1082
01:27:24,593 --> 01:27:28,593
wants to give all of us everything

1083
01:27:28,593 --> 01:27:33,153
as long that's one of the tricks

1084
01:27:33,153 --> 01:27:37,193
that maybe people can take we can just clip this and get it

1085
01:27:37,193 --> 01:27:41,293
is an instant wisdom in a short form.

1086
01:27:42,313 --> 01:27:43,673
Life pro tip.

1087
01:27:44,793 --> 01:27:48,313
As long as you can keep love in yourself,

1088
01:27:48,513 --> 01:27:49,573
you will be getting more.

1089
01:27:51,373 --> 01:27:56,233
So the way that people stop receiving

1090
01:27:56,233 --> 01:27:59,673
is that they stop generating love in themselves

1091
01:27:59,673 --> 01:28:04,233
and they get lost to those loops we were talking about,

1092
01:28:04,233 --> 01:28:10,653
feeding hate, feeding doubt, feeding all these little monsters in their head.

1093
01:28:11,373 --> 01:28:19,373
If you as a person can stay centered on love, you will just keep receiving.

1094
01:28:19,373 --> 01:28:24,613
And that's what I realized is that universe wants to give you everything.

1095
01:28:25,233 --> 01:28:27,433
But it's too much.

1096
01:28:27,433 --> 01:28:39,053
Because if you receive and you haven't been enlightened to handle all the frequency, you are going to be crushed.

1097
01:28:39,753 --> 01:28:42,113
And this is where ego will step in.

1098
01:28:42,793 --> 01:28:44,253
Because ego is protection.

1099
01:28:45,153 --> 01:28:50,193
Ego will be, no, I do not want to be one with the universe.

1100
01:28:50,873 --> 01:28:53,573
I don't want to receive everything.

1101
01:28:54,173 --> 01:28:56,653
I want to stay myself.

1102
01:28:57,433 --> 01:29:02,733
Whatever that is, it's I like the illusion.

1103
01:29:03,233 --> 01:29:07,793
I like the individual that I am.

1104
01:29:08,033 --> 01:29:13,633
And for now, I want to stay separate from the universe.

1105
01:29:13,773 --> 01:29:17,733
Give me a year, 10, you know, 50.

1106
01:29:17,793 --> 01:29:19,533
I know it will end.

1107
01:29:19,733 --> 01:29:22,273
I'm going to be integrated against my will.

1108
01:29:22,733 --> 01:29:23,593
We'll all die.

1109
01:29:23,593 --> 01:29:32,113
you know ego that ultimate that but let me enjoy the illusion and this is again where

1110
01:29:32,113 --> 01:29:39,953
for me people are so focused on killing their ego you know going with philosophy

1111
01:29:39,953 --> 01:29:49,493
if you meet buddha on your way kill him and all this feeding traumas and then feeding

1112
01:29:49,493 --> 01:29:59,973
conflict is it no a lot of your ego as well like do not give into it but you know don't marry a

1113
01:29:59,973 --> 01:30:07,233
rock star but have fun yeah yeah yeah definitely well well let's unpack the first the first part

1114
01:30:07,233 --> 01:30:14,293
of your answer you sound a lot like ivy looney love is the cure you sound a lot like her but

1115
01:30:14,293 --> 01:30:18,193
when you start talking about

1116
01:30:18,193 --> 01:30:20,253
ego being a protection

1117
01:30:20,253 --> 01:30:21,273
let me ask you this

1118
01:30:21,273 --> 01:30:24,473
for people who are experiencing fear and doubt

1119
01:30:24,473 --> 01:30:26,573
where are these fear and doubt coming from?

1120
01:30:27,633 --> 01:30:28,873
could be coming from ego

1121
01:30:28,873 --> 01:30:30,553
yeah because

1122
01:30:30,553 --> 01:30:32,293
ego is

1123
01:30:32,293 --> 01:30:33,913
threatened or

1124
01:30:33,913 --> 01:30:36,433
they've made their

1125
01:30:36,433 --> 01:30:38,513
ego about fears

1126
01:30:38,513 --> 01:30:42,893
and going back to what we said

1127
01:30:42,893 --> 01:30:53,433
make your ego about love make your ego about uh something other than yourself make your ego about

1128
01:30:53,433 --> 01:31:06,073
bitcoin yeah so that you're forced to focus on okay i am doing this interview i'm enjoying it

1129
01:31:06,073 --> 01:31:08,313
immensely. But does it further

1130
01:31:08,313 --> 01:31:09,993
my contributions in Bitcoin?

1131
01:31:10,613 --> 01:31:12,073
It doesn't. Okay, so

1132
01:31:12,073 --> 01:31:14,433
now I'm serving ego.

1133
01:31:14,613 --> 01:31:15,833
Ego is not serving me.

1134
01:31:16,413 --> 01:31:18,113
Too many people are

1135
01:31:18,113 --> 01:31:19,713
focused on

1136
01:31:19,713 --> 01:31:22,213
wrong

1137
01:31:22,213 --> 01:31:24,253
thing. Ego is such a loaded

1138
01:31:24,253 --> 01:31:24,873
word.

1139
01:31:26,513 --> 01:31:26,693
So

1140
01:31:26,693 --> 01:31:30,273
I hope I inspire

1141
01:31:30,273 --> 01:31:32,193
some people to

1142
01:31:32,193 --> 01:31:33,493
nurture their ego.

1143
01:31:33,493 --> 01:31:41,793
and allow it to protect themselves as individual

1144
01:31:41,793 --> 01:31:45,613
because, again, as Uncle Rockstar developer,

1145
01:31:45,833 --> 01:31:48,573
a contributor to Bitcoin, I am in Bitcoin.

1146
01:31:50,193 --> 01:31:52,533
One of the big reasons why I'm in Bitcoin

1147
01:31:52,533 --> 01:32:09,083
is because I want my code my contributions what I built to serve others Those tools are there so that people use them the way I have used them for my individual freedom

1148
01:32:10,143 --> 01:32:16,683
And ego, use it as another tool to be more free as an individual

1149
01:32:16,683 --> 01:32:17,823
because you will be.

1150
01:32:18,543 --> 01:32:21,563
I agree with you, but at the same time,

1151
01:32:21,643 --> 01:32:24,443
I think there's a better way to conceptualize this

1152
01:32:24,443 --> 01:32:31,223
that can get bypassed the drawback of ego.

1153
01:32:31,883 --> 01:32:35,743
Bottom line, I still think that people should work towards ego death.

1154
01:32:37,063 --> 01:32:42,823
But at the same time, it means, what's ego death?

1155
01:32:43,003 --> 01:32:44,583
It's not like your ego is dead.

1156
01:32:45,463 --> 01:32:50,603
Okay, so my definition of ego death is not that your ego is dead

1157
01:32:50,603 --> 01:32:52,163
and you don't have an ego anymore.

1158
01:32:52,163 --> 01:32:58,023
like that could be part of it but it doesn't have to be as extreme my definition of ego death

1159
01:32:58,023 --> 01:33:07,123
is can can be viewed as you let go of the attachment to ego but seriously like i don't

1160
01:33:07,123 --> 01:33:13,083
like vivian has such a big ego i think people should i think people should still work towards

1161
01:33:13,083 --> 01:33:21,023
ego death yes and but but at first when we approach ego death and from the beginning we

1162
01:33:21,023 --> 01:33:25,223
don't have to be so extreme because I'll kill your ego and it's a big word it's too much

1163
01:33:25,223 --> 01:33:32,443
and hear me out hear me out and how I think about ego is that I think about ego as canvases

1164
01:33:32,443 --> 01:33:40,403
it's not about ego it's like you have a blank canvas and your ego is what do you put on that

1165
01:33:40,403 --> 01:33:45,543
canvas and it's like you have an ego for bitcoin ego for bitcoin and what you're really saying oh

1166
01:33:45,543 --> 01:33:50,903
am I serving bitcoin this is principle this is the principle that you operate on

1167
01:33:50,903 --> 01:33:59,203
within that ego eagle that's the principle and you are you're you're you're you're thing you're

1168
01:33:59,203 --> 01:34:05,063
always if you have this ego canvas that's called bitcoin and then you think about do i and you want

1169
01:34:05,063 --> 01:34:11,423
to serve bitcoin and the ego itself if the purpose of that ego is to serve bitcoin then you you are

1170
01:34:11,423 --> 01:34:16,543
integrating the principle of they have structured it so much better yeah yeah you're you're you're

1171
01:34:16,543 --> 01:34:24,723
you're integrating that ego in and let it become a principle of yours i am i'm dividing my ego

1172
01:34:24,723 --> 01:34:36,803
into a bunch of little egos and uh i am assembling a lego i'm adding an l to it so it's egos and it

1173
01:34:36,803 --> 01:34:44,463
becomes lego and i am assembling my ego as little like the legos ready here with the rockstar

1174
01:34:44,463 --> 01:34:53,803
it's already done it's already done see okay well we can end this interview right here

1175
01:34:53,803 --> 01:35:03,243
we just have the main tidbit also say to people assemble your ego like bunch of legos and we'll

1176
01:35:03,243 --> 01:35:10,663
be done with it yeah it's it's about what you were saying about creating meaning yeah it's it's

1177
01:35:10,663 --> 01:35:17,963
like ego is a canvas for creation ego itself ego is just a canvas that allows you to draw on it and

1178
01:35:17,963 --> 01:35:27,423
it's your and you shouldn't be attached to to the thing itself maybe it's just that i'm too

1179
01:35:27,423 --> 01:35:33,243
triggered like whenever i meet people who are focused on ego that is like their ego is not that

1180
01:35:33,243 --> 01:35:40,403
it's very much alive that's why i said it's about letting go of the attachment of ego the thing is

1181
01:35:40,403 --> 01:35:42,463
ego is dying

1182
01:35:42,463 --> 01:35:43,703
anyways.

1183
01:35:43,963 --> 01:35:46,403
We're all dying. It's all going towards

1184
01:35:46,403 --> 01:35:46,743
zero.

1185
01:35:50,023 --> 01:35:51,623
Yeah, yes it is.

1186
01:35:51,843 --> 01:35:53,983
You as individual, you'll die.

1187
01:35:54,123 --> 01:35:55,203
So it goes towards zero.

1188
01:35:55,423 --> 01:35:57,343
And that brings...

1189
01:35:57,343 --> 01:35:59,883
Actually, that harsh truth

1190
01:35:59,883 --> 01:36:02,043
is one of the most beautiful things.

1191
01:36:02,123 --> 01:36:04,403
As soon as you as individual refocus

1192
01:36:04,403 --> 01:36:06,403
on the fact that

1193
01:36:06,403 --> 01:36:07,963
this life

1194
01:36:07,963 --> 01:36:09,703
will be over,

1195
01:36:10,403 --> 01:36:19,003
it gives you such a great perspective right like it re-centers you towards what am i doing

1196
01:36:19,003 --> 01:36:25,463
with my time like is this meaningful is this what i want to feed and then you go away from

1197
01:36:25,463 --> 01:36:33,203
this loaded term that we're both describing like ego and canvas so i i love it i love that you can

1198
01:36:33,203 --> 01:36:35,663
like reframe it in a better way.

1199
01:36:36,303 --> 01:36:39,123
Oh, it's always, there's only framing.

1200
01:36:40,643 --> 01:36:42,843
The information is there as is,

1201
01:36:42,843 --> 01:36:45,223
it's always, there's only framing.

1202
01:36:45,503 --> 01:36:46,183
Reframing.

1203
01:36:46,383 --> 01:36:47,083
It's only framing.

1204
01:36:48,863 --> 01:36:50,983
What's your relationship with mortality?

1205
01:36:54,843 --> 01:36:59,963
I hope that what I have built

1206
01:36:59,963 --> 01:37:03,843
with others as well.

1207
01:37:04,263 --> 01:37:06,003
Like this uncle rockstar

1208
01:37:06,003 --> 01:37:07,343
dev identity that

1209
01:37:07,343 --> 01:37:12,043
it's gonna serve for as

1210
01:37:12,043 --> 01:37:14,123
long as possible. Maybe it won't

1211
01:37:14,123 --> 01:37:15,503
be immortal but

1212
01:37:15,503 --> 01:37:18,043
the fact that it will have its

1213
01:37:18,043 --> 01:37:19,983
place in the

1214
01:37:19,983 --> 01:37:21,503
history of Bitcoin

1215
01:37:21,503 --> 01:37:24,143
brings my ego

1216
01:37:24,143 --> 01:37:25,823
warm.

1217
01:37:27,563 --> 01:37:28,623
It's legacy.

1218
01:37:28,623 --> 01:37:30,163
Yes, the light.

1219
01:37:30,163 --> 01:37:32,963
It's not about ego, Uncle. It's about legacy.

1220
01:37:32,963 --> 01:37:37,163
You are having that warm feeling and sensation.

1221
01:37:37,163 --> 01:37:40,243
It's not because your ego is satisfied.

1222
01:37:40,243 --> 01:37:42,603
It's because you know you're leaving a legacy.

1223
01:37:42,603 --> 01:37:45,983
This is the difference between Uncle and Rockstar

1224
01:37:45,983 --> 01:37:47,983
because Rockstar is about ego,

1225
01:37:47,983 --> 01:37:49,943
but Uncle is about community.

1226
01:37:49,943 --> 01:37:51,083
It's about legacy.

1227
01:37:51,083 --> 01:37:54,743
It goes back to what we were saying about

1228
01:37:54,743 --> 01:37:57,543
is it Uncle, is it Rockstar, is it Dev?

1229
01:37:58,623 --> 01:38:09,623
It's that tree branch and sometimes you need to go down three different paths in order to find the right one.

1230
01:38:09,623 --> 01:38:13,103
Or if you have capacity, you can have it all.

1231
01:38:13,243 --> 01:38:24,543
You can go down to five different paths, but still you'll be forced to come to one path in order to proceed.

1232
01:38:24,543 --> 01:38:33,823
you use ego to create this little pocket of time space where you're selfish and you want

1233
01:38:33,823 --> 01:38:41,903
certain illusion for a day for a day for a day for a day for a day okay for three days for a week

1234
01:38:41,903 --> 01:38:50,803
for a year maybe maybe you are so committed to certain illusion that you make it for life

1235
01:38:50,803 --> 01:38:53,903
you get married

1236
01:38:53,903 --> 01:38:55,643
and you say

1237
01:38:55,643 --> 01:38:59,783
as marriage efficient

1238
01:38:59,783 --> 01:39:01,763
I was hoping we'll get to that because I was

1239
01:39:01,763 --> 01:39:03,883
marrying people one thing I've

1240
01:39:03,883 --> 01:39:05,383
realized that

1241
01:39:05,383 --> 01:39:07,683
marriage especially

1242
01:39:07,683 --> 01:39:09,923
for guys from their

1243
01:39:09,923 --> 01:39:11,743
perspective is kind of

1244
01:39:11,743 --> 01:39:12,343
commitment

1245
01:39:12,343 --> 01:39:15,863
to spend the rest of their life

1246
01:39:15,863 --> 01:39:17,503
exploring

1247
01:39:17,503 --> 01:39:19,623
a universe that certain

1248
01:39:19,623 --> 01:39:20,363
woman is

1249
01:39:20,363 --> 01:39:21,803
huh

1250
01:39:21,803 --> 01:39:26,563
this will be amazing

1251
01:39:26,563 --> 01:39:27,483
yeah

1252
01:39:27,483 --> 01:39:28,423
go again

1253
01:39:28,423 --> 01:39:30,343
it wasn't following

1254
01:39:30,343 --> 01:39:31,983
okay I'm gonna repeat it

1255
01:39:31,983 --> 01:39:32,303
okay

1256
01:39:32,303 --> 01:39:35,703
as a guy

1257
01:39:35,703 --> 01:39:36,503
committing

1258
01:39:36,503 --> 01:39:37,983
to a marriage

1259
01:39:37,983 --> 01:39:38,643
yeah

1260
01:39:38,643 --> 01:39:39,963
it's nothing

1261
01:39:39,963 --> 01:39:40,763
other

1262
01:39:40,763 --> 01:39:42,743
than saying

1263
01:39:42,743 --> 01:39:45,403
exploring

1264
01:39:45,403 --> 01:39:46,943
this woman

1265
01:39:46,943 --> 01:39:49,303
and the universe

1266
01:39:49,303 --> 01:39:50,243
in her

1267
01:39:50,243 --> 01:39:52,443
is a lifelong pursuit.

1268
01:39:53,063 --> 01:39:54,943
I'm going to dedicate my life

1269
01:39:54,943 --> 01:39:56,563
to doing that.

1270
01:39:56,623 --> 01:39:58,203
That's very romantic.

1271
01:39:59,203 --> 01:40:01,123
Hey, as a marriage minister,

1272
01:40:01,263 --> 01:40:03,043
you got to have these up your sleeve.

1273
01:40:04,263 --> 01:40:05,183
It's working.

1274
01:40:06,063 --> 01:40:06,943
It's bright.

1275
01:40:07,123 --> 01:40:08,763
It's like, should I marry this guy?

1276
01:40:08,863 --> 01:40:10,483
And you're like, go tell her this.

1277
01:40:12,743 --> 01:40:14,283
Then the question becomes

1278
01:40:14,283 --> 01:40:18,403
about commitment.

1279
01:40:18,403 --> 01:40:20,583
You're like the man

1280
01:40:20,583 --> 01:40:21,583
Choose to

1281
01:40:21,583 --> 01:40:22,863
Choose to

1282
01:40:22,863 --> 01:40:26,063
Explore a women's universe

1283
01:40:26,063 --> 01:40:26,763
For a lifetime

1284
01:40:26,763 --> 01:40:29,403
And that's beautiful

1285
01:40:29,403 --> 01:40:32,323
Meaningful

1286
01:40:32,323 --> 01:40:33,503
Meaningful

1287
01:40:33,503 --> 01:40:35,323
As well

1288
01:40:35,323 --> 01:40:48,492
But here the thing You have to be honest If your thinking is influenced by trauma if your values and perceptions of the world

1289
01:40:48,492 --> 01:40:50,532
is influenced by trauma,

1290
01:40:51,532 --> 01:40:52,872
what is midlife crisis?

1291
01:40:53,332 --> 01:40:56,092
It's almost like you go through your life

1292
01:40:56,092 --> 01:40:58,772
and then you realize you're ending up with,

1293
01:40:58,972 --> 01:41:01,272
you have a lot of things you thought you wanted,

1294
01:41:01,852 --> 01:41:05,032
but you're still unhappy and you don't know why.

1295
01:41:07,292 --> 01:41:14,012
And this is because when they've gone on the path of acquiring these things,

1296
01:41:14,012 --> 01:41:16,112
they weren't thinking it through.

1297
01:41:17,212 --> 01:41:23,272
And they were like, oh, cars, towels, women, bags, money.

1298
01:41:23,812 --> 01:41:24,092
Men.

1299
01:41:24,732 --> 01:41:26,432
Men, yeah, yeah, exactly.

1300
01:41:26,632 --> 01:41:27,352
Women, men.

1301
01:41:30,592 --> 01:41:37,252
When you pursue these things, you thought you wanted this,

1302
01:41:37,292 --> 01:41:43,292
but it was something else you wanted it's the same thing with bitcoin like people sass sass and you

1303
01:41:43,292 --> 01:41:51,092
you thought it's bitcoin that i want it's sass that i want no you want time for yourself you want

1304
01:41:51,092 --> 01:42:00,952
to be healthy and not work like nine to nine for like seven days without a choice you want to love

1305
01:42:00,952 --> 01:42:06,252
you want to be loved you want to feel connected and free it's not that bitcoin it's not bitcoin

1306
01:42:06,252 --> 01:42:15,192
that you want. It's through Bitcoin you may have a chance to get there. So Bitcoin is not the answer,

1307
01:42:15,192 --> 01:42:23,952
it is the key. A key to a possibility to find out who you really are and who you could be.

1308
01:42:25,392 --> 01:42:32,952
How much you can realize your potential. Because if we speak potential, potential is cheap. Ideas

1309
01:42:32,952 --> 01:42:41,272
are cheap. Ideas are cheap. And potential, good for you. You have potential. But if you don't

1310
01:42:41,272 --> 01:42:47,892
act on it, potential means nothing. Because that's the 3D world we're in. Things don't

1311
01:42:47,892 --> 01:42:56,192
manifest instantly. That's why Bitcoin. Absolutely. We talked a lot about mirror, this mirror.

1312
01:42:56,192 --> 01:43:00,292
And then we were talking about Bitcoin being mirror at Bitcoin Asia for personal growth.

1313
01:43:00,292 --> 01:43:03,572
and we talked about you as an individual

1314
01:43:03,572 --> 01:43:08,292
Uncle Rockstar Death being a mirror for others

1315
01:43:08,292 --> 01:43:14,192
and I think a lot of people don't realize that

1316
01:43:14,192 --> 01:43:15,692
that's first layer

1317
01:43:15,692 --> 01:43:20,632
and second layer is that even if they realize that

1318
01:43:20,632 --> 01:43:27,192
I don't think people appreciate this enough

1319
01:43:27,192 --> 01:43:30,692
yeah and this is because people are

1320
01:43:31,532 --> 01:43:40,892
insecure and traumatized to be honest with themselves to face the truth and sometimes

1321
01:43:40,892 --> 01:43:47,912
because one of my personal struggle over over the years have been i sometimes i know better

1322
01:43:47,912 --> 01:43:54,172
but i couldn't bring myself to do it i know all the right things but i you know you these like

1323
01:43:54,172 --> 01:43:59,852
we are all like this right like smoking is bad for you eating well sleep and take care of yourself

1324
01:43:59,852 --> 01:44:05,792
right it's basic but we can't for whatever reason we can't bring ourselves to it or in relationships

1325
01:44:05,792 --> 01:44:10,852
we know that we should aim for collaboration we should aim for this and that but we we can help

1326
01:44:10,852 --> 01:44:16,332
of like maybe falling for the wrong person wrong type of person or willing to stay in the toxic

1327
01:44:16,332 --> 01:44:25,132
relationship longer than you should right so how how do you personally approach the the dissonance

1328
01:44:25,132 --> 01:44:34,172
between knowing and doing yeah well first of all on behalf of all of us that follow your work

1329
01:44:34,172 --> 01:44:42,012
life with bitcoin and uh i i want to recognize that you are doing

1330
01:44:42,012 --> 01:44:52,272
and you're doing well we can all see you know from from your work your looks that you're doing

1331
01:44:52,272 --> 01:45:03,732
better and on behalf of all of us congratulations keep going for it Vivian and it's again it's a

1332
01:45:03,732 --> 01:45:15,772
struggle it's a struggle that you you just give into every day and you do the best you can the

1333
01:45:15,772 --> 01:45:26,332
great thing about bitcoin is there are so many different people with different skills and the

1334
01:45:26,332 --> 01:45:31,712
the skills that you bring to the table the knowledge that you have is very different than mine

1335
01:45:31,712 --> 01:45:47,212
So people that follow your work have amazing role modeling in a case study really to emulate.

1336
01:45:47,212 --> 01:45:57,812
and that's if I ever get to the point where I struggle so much and I'm not getting the results

1337
01:45:57,812 --> 01:46:09,472
that I would want the way that I reset myself is in number one I look up to other

1338
01:46:09,472 --> 01:46:15,532
developers in the ecosystem and what they're doing so can I do more of that

1339
01:46:15,532 --> 01:46:22,792
can I find inspiration and then if I recognize that after trying myself

1340
01:46:22,792 --> 01:46:30,552
I'm not able to to reach the level that I want then you you reach out to your network

1341
01:46:30,552 --> 01:46:35,812
and I think for a lot of people that's maybe where they struggle like I'm so

1342
01:46:35,812 --> 01:46:41,432
lucky to have the network that I have that I have built over the years so there are some

1343
01:46:41,432 --> 01:46:50,152
super quality people in there who yeah get you out of the struggle like that and the whole bitcoin

1344
01:46:50,152 --> 01:47:00,992
is a mirror right i am blessed by having fractal encrypt himself who created that work of art

1345
01:47:00,992 --> 01:47:10,212
that literally embodies bitcoin is a mirror and billionaires are holding his art on their walls so

1346
01:47:10,212 --> 01:47:12,812
So I'm struggling with that.

1347
01:47:13,452 --> 01:47:16,672
Me being a mirror, I reach out to Fractal.

1348
01:47:16,812 --> 01:47:21,272
I'm like, hey, brother, you know, here is what's happening.

1349
01:47:21,392 --> 01:47:23,692
He's like, oh, you know, and he always does this.

1350
01:47:24,112 --> 01:47:35,852
He has this hand warming up gesture that, yeah, he warms up, gets me out of the funk.

1351
01:47:35,852 --> 01:47:36,932
I move on.

1352
01:47:36,932 --> 01:47:41,472
and that also polishes the mirror that I am.

1353
01:47:42,072 --> 01:47:44,972
Maybe one tidbit for people watching it.

1354
01:47:45,132 --> 01:47:49,552
Did you notice that I stopped wearing like reflective sunglasses?

1355
01:47:50,712 --> 01:47:51,312
I did.

1356
01:47:51,492 --> 01:47:53,532
It was freaking people out.

1357
01:47:54,052 --> 01:47:56,892
It was like they would look at me, they would see themselves.

1358
01:47:57,832 --> 01:48:00,372
So I've switched to less reflective.

1359
01:48:00,372 --> 01:48:01,252
Yeah, more subtle, right?

1360
01:48:01,452 --> 01:48:01,972
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1361
01:48:02,232 --> 01:48:05,872
It also helps with photos because when you take a photo,

1362
01:48:05,872 --> 01:48:07,872
Everyone is doxxed.

1363
01:48:07,872 --> 01:48:15,872
You know, you don't want to be too perfect of a mirror because you project people's traumas as well.

1364
01:48:15,872 --> 01:48:17,872
So that's scary.

1365
01:48:17,872 --> 01:48:19,872
And you don't want to go against your own principles, right?

1366
01:48:19,872 --> 01:48:25,872
Like just like you said, if you wear reflective glasses, the moment they take a picture, everybody is doxxed.

1367
01:48:25,872 --> 01:48:27,872
And you can't be doing that.

1368
01:48:27,872 --> 01:48:33,872
Yeah, right? It's also about helping people at their level.

1369
01:48:33,872 --> 01:48:37,552
Yeah, like I want to be the most perfect mirror there is,

1370
01:48:37,712 --> 01:48:40,332
but I can't get to the perfection.

1371
01:48:40,672 --> 01:48:41,692
It's getting in the way.

1372
01:48:42,532 --> 01:48:45,092
I think that's why love is the cure.

1373
01:48:45,912 --> 01:48:49,792
I like focus, drop everything else, focus on love,

1374
01:48:50,192 --> 01:48:51,572
and that's actually the way.

1375
01:48:52,832 --> 01:48:55,292
So maybe I'll be a convert.

1376
01:48:55,292 --> 01:48:58,292
Like I thought it's super cheeky and fake,

1377
01:48:59,252 --> 01:49:03,572
but after this episode, yeah, I'm a rockster

1378
01:49:03,572 --> 01:49:06,052
becomes a fan of love is the pure.

1379
01:49:08,992 --> 01:49:15,492
The sounding cheeky and cliche doesn't make truth, you know.

1380
01:49:15,772 --> 01:49:32,702
Yes but it can evangelize the truth Yeah Right Like make it spicier make it more easy to swallow because we do want to do that with the truth because truth is brutal yeah yeah and we need to wrap it into these layers

1381
01:49:32,702 --> 01:49:40,942
oh definitely and make it fun and make it sexy and cool and make it digestible and and make make it

1382
01:49:40,942 --> 01:49:48,222
simple enough to come across and this is this is where i see the the current struggle in the

1383
01:49:48,222 --> 01:49:52,482
bitcoin community is from the from the content creation perspective because if you think about

1384
01:49:52,482 --> 01:49:58,322
it most people these days we've like bitcoin has been around for long enough like 15 16 years but

1385
01:49:58,322 --> 01:50:03,482
if you think about it the majority of bitcoiners who are interested in bitcoin today are either

1386
01:50:03,482 --> 01:50:09,862
into economics or technology but if you more people are specializing that's what i'm seeing

1387
01:50:09,862 --> 01:50:16,322
yeah yeah but you kind of have to be in the kind of privileged position to to be into technology and

1388
01:50:16,322 --> 01:50:23,522
and economics because if you have five dollars to save every month forget about generational wealth

1389
01:50:23,522 --> 01:50:32,662
you just don't yes but it's also a bitcoin has advanced so much that now it's out of the territory

1390
01:50:32,662 --> 01:50:39,862
where it can make you rich in five years but the risk on the other hand is way less

1391
01:50:39,862 --> 01:50:45,482
so it should bitcoin be part of everyone's retirement portfolio

1392
01:50:45,482 --> 01:50:52,862
five years like 10 years ago the answer was like are you insane right the answer now is

1393
01:50:52,862 --> 01:51:01,302
like are you insane not to make a bitcoin part of your retirement like risk reward profile i

1394
01:51:01,302 --> 01:51:08,642
completely switched yeah and uh that has consequences like you know getting all these

1395
01:51:08,642 --> 01:51:16,542
people into bitcoin who are highly specialized and are super boring for people like and bitcoiners

1396
01:51:16,542 --> 01:51:22,602
like you and me yeah and this is where those people if they watch this conversation they'll be like

1397
01:51:22,602 --> 01:51:31,522
this is wrapped in so many layers like what are these two doing but we are serving bitcoin in a

1398
01:51:31,522 --> 01:51:38,342
way like we're wrapping that orange pill in so many layers so that people that are like you

1399
01:51:38,342 --> 01:51:44,001
it's easier to swallow because you can have the you can this is the thing you can have literally

1400
01:51:44,001 --> 01:51:50,662
the best doctors and the best medicine but when they present the pill in front of you

1401
01:51:50,662 --> 01:52:01,162
it's up to you to swallow it yes but it's also up to you like you as a person if you just get the

1402
01:52:01,162 --> 01:52:07,282
pill you'll be like well this is boring okay but if you get it in this layer of a layer of a layer

1403
01:52:07,282 --> 01:52:12,342
and then you're like and you keep them entertained yes yeah yeah it's the whole it's the whole thing

1404
01:52:12,342 --> 01:52:17,822
you're you're doing the healing through like 5d chess right it's 5d chess here you have to help

1405
01:52:17,822 --> 01:52:25,422
them at their level and and eventually get to your level i also think it's like 5d chess of bitcoin

1406
01:52:25,422 --> 01:52:34,022
that it's helping us do it and it's doing that for us it's like we are the ones being entertained

1407
01:52:34,022 --> 01:52:43,902
well yes but we're also serving as a showcase to other crazy people out there they're like oh

1408
01:52:43,902 --> 01:52:49,602
in bitcoin like i thought that i was crazy but actually there is vivian this rock star

1409
01:52:49,602 --> 01:52:52,182
I can be myself

1410
01:52:52,182 --> 01:52:53,102
yes

1411
01:52:53,102 --> 01:52:55,362
and look at them

1412
01:52:55,362 --> 01:52:56,962
they're having success

1413
01:52:56,962 --> 01:52:59,922
Bitcoin is supporting them

1414
01:52:59,922 --> 01:53:01,102
inspiration

1415
01:53:01,102 --> 01:53:02,722
it's to demonstrate

1416
01:53:02,722 --> 01:53:04,282
so last question

1417
01:53:04,282 --> 01:53:05,942
when we wrap up

1418
01:53:05,942 --> 01:53:07,922
if Bitcoin is mirror

1419
01:53:07,922 --> 01:53:09,942
and I think this conversation

1420
01:53:09,942 --> 01:53:12,462
we have concluded that Bitcoin is mirror

1421
01:53:12,462 --> 01:53:15,001
what shadow side

1422
01:53:15,001 --> 01:53:17,122
does it reveal about humanity?

1423
01:53:19,602 --> 01:53:30,202
all of it because the better the mirror the better you can see yourself and then

1424
01:53:30,202 --> 01:53:40,462
from there as you say we're at the end so i wouldn't be the one to go beyond there's so many

1425
01:53:40,462 --> 01:53:42,182
great stories

1426
01:53:42,182 --> 01:53:44,482
and literature about

1427
01:53:44,482 --> 01:53:46,302
mirrors and

1428
01:53:46,302 --> 01:53:48,722
seeing the reflection.

1429
01:53:50,302 --> 01:53:52,262
Emperor has no clothes.

1430
01:53:52,682 --> 01:53:53,842
So yeah, I would

1431
01:53:53,842 --> 01:53:56,642
inspire anyone

1432
01:53:56,642 --> 01:53:58,402
that's watching

1433
01:53:58,402 --> 01:53:59,182
this to

1434
01:53:59,182 --> 01:54:01,842
go back to classics.

1435
01:54:02,682 --> 01:54:04,602
And then when you get bored with classics

1436
01:54:04,602 --> 01:54:06,622
and you want to come back to Bitcoin,

1437
01:54:07,182 --> 01:54:08,582
re-watch part of

1438
01:54:08,582 --> 01:54:18,882
this and let that take you back you know something else and in that ride

1439
01:54:18,882 --> 01:54:30,182
find you know your developer how you're contributing find your rock star

1440
01:54:30,182 --> 01:54:37,522
it's like how you're having fun find your uncle how are you giving to the community

1441
01:54:37,522 --> 01:54:51,402
and uh integrate them kill them yeah kill kill them kiss some marry some yeah yeah yeah that's

1442
01:54:51,402 --> 01:54:57,862
the game right you can make it you can make it the epic side quest um of all and if bitcoin is

1443
01:54:57,862 --> 01:55:04,062
mirror then it's up to bitcoiners to open our eyes in front of it yes and then use bitcoin as a mirror

1444
01:55:04,062 --> 01:55:12,382
as you're doing all of that you see it but look look into bitcoin and see what it reflects to you

1445
01:55:12,382 --> 01:55:21,522
and if you're unsure ask other bitcoiners like for me i so many people immediately come to mind

1446
01:55:21,522 --> 01:55:32,962
like it's you it's fractal it's tomer it's john ballas it's jeff boot it's joe kelly it's a guy

1447
01:55:32,962 --> 01:55:44,082
like males i can keep going so shout out to all of you shout out to all the bitcoiners and

1448
01:55:44,082 --> 01:55:54,022
in the spirit of this episode i just walked into bitcoin as a mirror it said rockstar

1449
01:55:54,022 --> 01:56:02,642
your ego in this episode has been so much so you have to apologize to people for putting so many

1450
01:56:02,642 --> 01:56:09,962
layers into the pill that this episode is so my apologies to all of you watching this

1451
01:56:09,962 --> 01:56:17,622
hopefully you managed to unwrap all the layers thank you so much uncle for this conversation i

1452
01:56:17,622 --> 01:56:25,122
i've been really looking forward to this and i have so much respect and appreciation i hope you

1453
01:56:25,122 --> 01:56:32,501
know it and me personally i'm really really grateful for what you've done for bitcoin

1454
01:56:32,501 --> 01:56:41,022
likewise what you have done for bitcoin and what you have done for a lot of bitcoiners

1455
01:56:41,022 --> 01:56:52,162
for your guests and these episodes i i just hope it continues to grow as well and

1456
01:56:52,162 --> 01:57:00,462
what you're doing now as well with bitcoin asia with introducing new people to to bitcoin

1457
01:57:00,462 --> 01:57:01,842
keep

1458
01:57:01,842 --> 01:57:03,382
keep doing that

1459
01:57:03,382 --> 01:57:03,962
Vivian

1460
01:57:03,962 --> 01:57:04,702
and again

1461
01:57:04,702 --> 01:57:05,402
on behalf

1462
01:57:05,402 --> 01:57:06,402
of all of us

1463
01:57:06,402 --> 01:57:08,262
thank you

1464
01:57:08,262 --> 01:57:09,642
you're doing great

1465
01:57:09,642 --> 01:57:11,182
keep

1466
01:57:11,182 --> 01:57:12,682
keep doing it

1467
01:57:12,682 --> 01:57:13,942
thank you so much

1468
01:57:13,942 --> 01:57:14,741
I will

1469
01:57:14,741 --> 01:57:16,642
try my best

1470
01:57:16,642 --> 01:57:17,642
every single day

1471
01:57:17,642 --> 01:57:18,362
and

1472
01:57:18,362 --> 01:57:19,062
with that

1473
01:57:19,062 --> 01:57:20,382
we will

1474
01:57:20,382 --> 01:57:21,362
end this episode

1475
01:57:21,362 --> 01:57:22,662
thank you so much

1476
01:57:22,662 --> 01:57:23,302
thank you again

1477
01:57:23,302 --> 01:57:24,322
for taking the time

1478
01:57:24,322 --> 01:57:25,402
and

1479
01:57:25,402 --> 01:57:26,982
I look forward to

1480
01:57:26,982 --> 01:57:28,721
one day

1481
01:57:28,721 --> 01:57:29,342
having another

1482
01:57:29,342 --> 01:57:29,961
conversation

1483
01:57:29,961 --> 01:57:35,801
and revisit some of these ideas and think perhaps you will,

1484
01:57:35,981 --> 01:57:41,442
I'm sure you will have very different perspectives on some things

1485
01:57:41,442 --> 01:57:48,622
and the same perspectives on some other things.

1486
01:57:48,622 --> 01:57:54,561
And then I would be intrigued to know what changed and what remains.

1487
01:57:54,561 --> 01:57:57,362
so with that in mind

1488
01:57:57,362 --> 01:57:59,981
thank you so much for tuning in to this episode

1489
01:57:59,981 --> 01:58:01,681
of Live with Bitcoin, I'm your host Vivian

1490
01:58:01,681 --> 01:58:03,001
and we'll see you in the next one