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If you're watching this video, you're going to learn three big things.

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Number one, why Bitcoin isn't just an investment.

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It's freedom money.

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Freedom money.

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Number two, why spending sats matters.

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Number three, the basics of Bitcoin privacy.

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Yeah, today's guest is Seth for privacy.

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He's the COO of Cake Wallet.

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He's teaching us about self-custody and privacy for the everyday man.

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So if you're brand new to Bitcoin, come on inside the world's biggest Bitcoin welcome center for today's show.

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Welcome to Sat Chats, the Bitcoin podcast where we chat about sats.

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Sats are the smallest part of a Bitcoin the same way pennies are the smallest part of a dollar.

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With Sat Chats, we are building the world's biggest Bitcoin welcome center to serve as your gateway to Generacionale de Huerta.

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So if you are brand new to Bitcoin, we want to chat about sats with you for real.

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Head to satshats.com to grab your slot in the studio today.

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I'm your host, Stuart.

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And I'm your co-host, Anna Bevan.

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And with us today in the actual studio is 179 Seth.

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Woo!

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Very exciting.

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It's been like a couple weeks since we've had an in-studio person.

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Seth, say something out loud in person.

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I'm glad this worked out.

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I had no idea this would be an option to do in person, but I went to book it and saw y'all were relatively close by and I said, yeah, let's do this.

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These are always so much more fun.

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I mean, you get to have more of a vibe.

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Yeah, more of a vibe, more of a rapport back and forth.

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So I'm looking forward to it.

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Yes.

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And you're the first guest for season three of Sat Chats.

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Whoa.

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I'm honored.

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That is amazing.

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Episode 200, right?

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Yep.

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That's how that works out.

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That's how that works out.

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Episode number 200.

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Help us celebrate season three, okay?

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Subscribe.

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You'll get this silver Satoshi coin when you do, all right?

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Now, Seth, take us back to when you were a brand new Bitcoiner.

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And actually, what I want to hear is, when was the first time you actually heard the word Bitcoin?

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so for first time hearing about bitcoin we got to go back to 2011 so pretty early on yeah not

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obviously right out of the gate or i wasn't on the mailing list i'm not that cool um but yeah back

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in 2011 i actually i didn't know anybody that was into bitcoin um i just had a gaming computer i had

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free electricity and i said what can i do with this uh the two options were mine bitcoin or do

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folding at home which i don't know if you'll ever heard of that but it's like a it's like a way that

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you can use compute power it sounds like it you're folding proteins to theoretically help cure like

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cancer and other diseases oh so you picked bitcoin over curing cancer no i picked curing cancer oh i

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don't know if i helped anyone yo anna bevan just looked bad right then y'all we're about to

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you thought we're gonna clip that up and put it on the internet she's gonna be the new tyra

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So this is going to be like, oh, my God, the way she treated Seth in the third season was it really didn't age well.

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She's starting off with a bank.

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Yeah.

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Getting it out of there.

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Getting it out of there.

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Yeah.

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So, no, I cured cancer instead of mine.

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Excellent.

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Hot, hot, hot.

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Yeah, to my own detriment because six years then went by before I ever thought about Bitcoin again.

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Oh, wow.

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Now, let's pause for a minute because if you had chosen the mining route in 2011 and had run for six years, I mean, that would have been wild because it was still 50 Bitcoin per block in 2011, correct?

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I mean, maybe you would have run out of processing power before that six-year moment, but you still would have had some Bitcoin.

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yeah i mean these were the days when you mined with gpus so originally it was cpus just the

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regular processor that's in any device then was gpus which would be like a gaming computer gaming

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laptop which was that was about when i was looking into it um but it did switch to being asic mined

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2013 2014 so probably i only would have had those two years but knowing me i deep dive really hard

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into stuff if i get started so if i had started mining it i know that would have been my like my

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entry and start on my Bitcoin journey. Obviously, I wish I had. I didn't. Ended up in 2017.

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What made you be even just like cursorily curious in it, though? Because when I first heard about

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Bitcoin, it was in 2017. And the director of marketing for the custom software development

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company that I worked for, he like came over to my desk and he was like, dude, let me show you

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this right like look at it it's going like this and i'm like dude i'm trying to get rich transitioning

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from inside sales to outside sales i ain't got time for whatever you're saying wrecked myself

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so when i first heard about it i it wasn't even interesting at all but you were interested enough

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to maybe even consider it what elements of it were even interesting yeah i think like i wish

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i remembered exactly where i had found it because i know a lot of people are like oh it was this

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slash dot article or something that cued me into it i don't really remember i think it was just that

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i was looking for like what can you do with a gpu like what can i do i have free electricity i have

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a gpu what can i do with it and at that point bitcoin was one of the few things you could do

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no other cryptocurrencies at that time which there are now obviously you could mine that way

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um so i think just that honestly and and the same is true of later on in 2017 which we'll get to

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There was no part of me that was like, this is a huge revolution in money.

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This is something that's going to fix a broken reserve system.

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Like none of that.

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I won't pretend that I had any kind of philosophical bent towards it or saw something special in it.

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Really just saw like I like tech.

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I'm a tech enthusiast to heart and have been for since I was a kid.

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So I just saw this as something interesting but then decided holding it home seemed like a better thing to do and did that and moved on with my life.

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Folding it home.

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no one i've told that to knows what that was which i i thought it was pretty well known but

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no and it's not laundry it's not it's not the only one that i knew of in terms of like hey

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give us your spare computer resources was i think it was seti i believe that was the actual like app

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that you would use to do it but i think folding at home was the general like the concept of what

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the thing was that you were doing well that sounds correct like that sounds familiar i thought

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S-E-T-I, SETI, or SETI,

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it was like, give us your computer power

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and we'll use it to search for alien life.

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It was like, you send your computer power

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to help the satellite dishes process all the incoming...

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Weird.

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What kind of worlds were you guys in?

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That was not even remotely anything on the radar.

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Yeah.

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For me.

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What was on your radar in 2011, Abes?

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Um, trying to get a job.

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Trying to get a job.

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I had a job.

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So I had that, I had that down.

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No, I, I didn't have a job yet.

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I like was going to graduate from college.

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I, yeah.

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Just selfishly interested in her own employment.

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Could have been curing cancer.

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Golly.

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Instead trying to get a job.

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Dude, this episode is not a good look on AB over here.

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Yeah, sorry.

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It's just not a good day.

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Here Seth and I are fearlessly devoting our computer resources toward normal causes.

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You're finding aliens.

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Exactly.

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We didn't actually find any aliens.

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I don't think we didn't cure cancer either.

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Clearly.

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You know what?

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But we contributed.

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We contributed.

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We tried.

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So now we fast forward to 2017.

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Does it come back into your life because of that whole frothy market moment?

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Yeah.

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it was it was honestly so at the time i was in my first like real job out of college finally had

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some money so starting to think about like what am i what am i doing long-term investments 401k

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all that fun stuff um and it was right around the time of the the contentious fork the user

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activated software called the craziness of of that time around segwit uh and just a co-worker

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was like hey this cool thing called bitcoin you can buy some supposedly it's going to go way up

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after this fork and uh just speculating on it really just as a penny stock like there was no

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still there was no like idea of this solve something that we need but rather like it's

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kind of a pain to like go out and find a certain stock and buy that stock and manage it and but

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there's this cool thing that's bitcoin and it's kind of a technology so so we'll take a stab at

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that uh and that was honestly just what started it for me was it seemed like a cool thing to start

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looking into and start buying just purely for the number go up aspects, the kind of penny stock,

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not viewing it as a valuable thing, but as just a kind of a get rich quick scheme, honestly. And

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that's how most people get in for better or worse. When did it shift for you?

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It took a while, honestly. It probably took me six or nine months for it to really kind of click

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that there was something more there. Part of that was just like many other people.

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When you see Bitcoin as a penny stock, you see other things that are cheaper,

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other things that you can get more of for the same amount of dollars.

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Stupid things like VeChain and Tron and just garbage that was popular at that time.

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And I think once you fall down that rabbit hole and realize that the vast majority of the other

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stuff is just a complete scam, you start to realize like, okay, but why has Bitcoin been

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here for so long? Like this stuff's not going to be around long term. Why has Bitcoin been around

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so long and survived and seemingly thrived since 2009? And that combined with actually me getting

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into Monero, which is a privacy preserving cryptocurrency that has really similar like

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anonymous founder roots to Bitcoin, but it's very privacy centric and you can mine it at home easily.

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You couldn't mine Bitcoin at home easily back then specifically. And I did want to get back

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into mining. So I started mining Monero and it will come back to Bitcoin. I promise I started

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mining Monero and that community is like, they're very hardcore, very cypherpunk, very focused on

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like these, these things are tools for human freedom. They're not just an investment. They're

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not just a speculative asset. There's something that actually we need for a free and flourishing

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society long-term. And that was the first time anyone had ever talked to me about Bitcoin,

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about Monero, about any of these things in that way. Like I didn't have the deep Bitcoin or friend

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And I had never listened to a Bitcoin podcast.

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I don't think I would have even thought of doing that back then, honestly.

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And it was that moment that I started saying like, oh, like there's there's something else here.

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Like it's not just something I can invest in and make some more money for myself or let me retire earlier or set up a nest egg for my kids or whatever.

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It was like there's actually a technological benefit here, too, alongside the money and that those two things are deeply intertwined.

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And as a tech enthusiast, that's when I really started diving into, okay, like how does Bitcoin work?

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How does mining Bitcoin work?

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What does the privacy look like?

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Because at that point, like I said, I'd started getting into Monero and starting to think more about privacy more generally.

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And that really is what started the journey for me.

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That's when it clicked like, oh, Bitcoin is actually freedom money and is actually fixing a much bigger, much more pervasive set of issues than me, random white guy with a good job wanting to save up and have more money at the end of the day.

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That's really kind of the most tertiary thing that Bitcoin does.

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And there's much more crucial things that it does.

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So that's really what clicked for me.

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But like I said, it took probably six or nine months after I started buying Bitcoin to realize what it really was, what it could really mean for me, but really for others.

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What were the emotions around that time where you're like, oh, shoot, this is like, this is bigger than just number go up.

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How did that feel to kind of have that realization hit you?

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Hmm. I think like many awakenings, a little painful because you start to have this realization,

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like it feels like the blinders kind of fall off your eyes and you see the brokenness. Like to see

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something as a necessary tool, you have to see that something's broken. You need the tool to

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fix something. And I think that's a lot of what is harder for us to see here in the US,

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in the West generally, like if you talk to most people here, there is almost no perceived need for

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Bitcoin. Like y'all are doing a great job trying to change that, trying to show people why you need

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Bitcoin. But the average person in America, they don't feel like something is broken. Maybe they

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feel like inflation is hurting them, or maybe they feel like things are getting more expensive.

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But there's not this perceived need of like, I need something to fix this now. And that tool

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actually exists um i actually think they do think that something's broken but the solution is a

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better version of the broken thing or to hustle culture their way out of you know like i'll just

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have a full-time job and do uber eats and other you know potential online items you know what i

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mean a lot of feet going out on the internet these days right so you know i can see i can see what you saying where I do think a lot of people either feel directly or indirectly that something not quite right

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But I can also understand what you're saying, which is like there isn't, you know, whether you have a vague awareness of like, hey, like everything's getting more expensive all the time.

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I don't know if we have the same level of acute pain as, you know, the Zimbabwe hyperinflation moment or the Weimar Republic hyperinflation moment.

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But but like when I'm trying to talk to people, it's like, hey, look, guys, if inflation through money printing and these historical examples got super, super bad, then you can walk that all the way back to any amount of that being not good.

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I mean, it's like going to the doctor and saying, hey, I think 98.6 degrees is the correct temperature for my body.

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Like, yeah, but it would be a little bit better if we could be at 100.1.

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Like, we don't want to be at 100.5 or 99.5.

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We just want to run a slight fever inside your body just to kind of maybe kill some germs and bacteria before they can really.

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It's like, dude, what?

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That can't be right.

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But I kind of saw I saw you do this to where maybe are you thinking some of that business is OK?

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I think I won't necessarily say that it is OK.

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I think the bigger the bigger problem than necessarily inflation being harmful and this opening up a whole can of worms is that a central entity with no direct oversight by people choosing how the economy as a whole will function, how inflation rates will work, how interest rates will work.

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That to me is the thing that's much more harmful.

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I think, and maybe this is too big of a topic to get into today, but I think the deflationary nature of Bitcoin would have its own issues if it was the currency that we had.

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It has an inverse set of negative effects that can happen as well.

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But I think the bigger problem for me and the beautiful thing that Bitcoin solves is there is no central entity that gets to change things.

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You can plan long term.

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This is exactly what's going to happen with Bitcoin supply, with Bitcoin's inflation rate or deflation rate.

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And you have a lot more stability and trust based on that.

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And you remove the core problems with Cantillian effects within the normal economy where if you get to buddy up to the Federal Reserve or you get to buddy up to your central bank, you can get benefits that no one else can get.

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And they can build perverse incentives into the system that benefit them.

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I think those things like the centralized and controlled and broken nature of the entities themselves are a bigger problem than necessarily inflation itself.

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But those things always go hand in hand because the biggest lever that they have is inflation.

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Like there are other things that they can shift, but the easiest thing they can do is just money, rent or go burr.

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Like that's the simple answer for them.

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So when you say, hey, there are some inverse negative effects of Bitcoin that may be too much to get into, let's actually get into them.

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But let's try to explain to Hank and Lorraine, our brand new Bitcoiners in the audience, in common terms, what those are.

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Right. Like, cause, cause I don't know what they are. I am a toxic maxi off of this show. I go to

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the meetup here in Raleigh. I'm like Bitcoin. You know what I mean? Even when we like turn off the

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record. Yeah. He's still going. Still going. 100%. Yes. Yes. So, so, so what do you mean? Like,

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why wouldn't it be okay for the world to adopt a Bitcoin standard in our lifetime?

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I mean, it wouldn't necessarily be bad. I think it's just, we kind of extrapolate a lot of things

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as Bitcoiners and just assume that the inverse of what's broken is the solution. And I think when

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it comes to money and economies, they're much more complex than a lot of times we give them credit

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for. I think an example of that, and I'll kind of caveat all of this with, I don't think that

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there will ever be a Bitcoin standard. I don't think hyper-Bitcoinization will ever happen.

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Like I'm maybe not, I'm not the kind of stereotypical Bitcoin maximalist. So a lot of

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my thinking circles around that. I don't think that will ever happen anyways. So I'm not really

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too worried about this, honestly. But if we're talking like Bitcoin becomes the standard, we do

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away with the dollar. Deflation sounds really nice until you actually think about what the second and

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third order effects of that are, which are, I mean, the primary downside of a deflationary currency

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is that you benefit by not spending. If you're able to save and spend less, you will benefit over

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the long run. But the problem is when everyone is incentivized not to spend, businesses die,

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the economy struggles and suffers and could die as well, essentially, because if you choose to

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make that decision of I am going to spend, you're choosing to suffer down the road versus spend now.

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Now, inflation causes the opposite problem, where if you're going to save, you're actually penalized

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for saving in dollars versus spending right now. So both have core issues, but they're really like

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two sides of the same coin in my view where the the inflation is problematic the deflation would

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also be problematic if it was a like the currency but the main benefit that bitcoin would still have

246
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in that scenario is you know exactly what the deflation or inflation is going to be right now

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we're probably already deflationary in bitcoin because of how low the inflation rate is and how

248
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many coins are lost every year um but that predictability is very important and and would

249
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would offset some of those downsides but i think it's not necessarily as rosy of a concept in

250
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reality when things played out i'm not an economist though like that's not can we just have

251
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like if there's inflation just perfectly zero percent inflation inflation that's what we need

252
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is left and right yeah inflation just like shakespeare over here bitcoin is inflationary

253
00:20:11,552 --> 00:20:17,272
it's not inflationary not deflationary it's inflationary all right inflation at home is the

254
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new computer program that we're all going to be running with our spare power now what about i mean

255
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i'm gonna have to spend on my existence i gotta buy groceries i gotta buy gasoline

256
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i want to go to the movies i feel like if i flipped over to bitcoin yes i would probably spend less

257
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on junk that's stupid i don't need but i would probably continue to live a non-zero amount of

258
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life that would ensure some money gets you know into the economy right but like the times that we

259
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would buy something dumb or the times where we might eat out when we literally have food going

260
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bad in the fridge i feel like i don't feel like everyone's spending would dry up to nothing i feel

261
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like it might um achieve its right size if i'm spending more than i should because of this system

262
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we're in and the fact that it's already late and we haven't done dinner yet so let's just go get

263
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something that might come down to its right size but if i'm not spending anything at all

264
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and then you have a world where bitcoin is doing its thing all of a sudden you as a light bulb

265
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manufacturer can't really afford to put out a light bulb that is planned obsolescence going to

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die in a x amount you you need to put out the greatest light bulb that you can put out

267
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that spinning might come up to its right size because now because when we buy products these

268
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days they suck they're not good most of them they're really the halloween outfits dude you

269
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got kids the halloween outfits from amazon don't light a flame too close because they'll just dude

270
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they're like printing ink on paper and being like here's you know red from the descendants

271
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you know i mean it's like you're putting on it's like scratchy like this sucks right so do you

272
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really think spinning would all the way dry up in that moment or i mean it's it's hard to know for

273
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sure obviously i think your case is a good optimistic case that in an ideal world it would

274
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have like the perfect capitalistic outcome of the like the zombie companies the useless things that

275
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people are creating the the poor quality planned obsolescence that that would be the thing that

276
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dies out and the good quality stuff would continue um it's like a chinese apothecary where they're

277
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like hey this powdered horn will where are you going with this fix your if your cholesterol is

278
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too low it fixes that if your cholesterol is too high it fixes that like whenever i went into a

279
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chinese apothecary i'm like how can one medicine thing it's happened before your regular daily

280
00:23:12,452 --> 00:23:17,552
apothecary visit just like a random story by stewart okay that's that's normal that is normal

281
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dude i couldn't i'm like how can one item be prescribed for something being too high and too

282
00:23:24,792 --> 00:23:28,672
low it's like what are you saying bro but ultimately their style of medicine is about

283
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achieving a balance not treating a specific element so it's like hey what if what if bitcoin

284
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could help us reach a balance you see what i'm saying so reaching inflation bitcoin is the chinese

285
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inflationary

286
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botthicary

287
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exactly

288
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exactly

289
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now

290
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you also said

291
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that you don't think

292
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we're gonna reach

293
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a bitcoin standard

294
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in our lifetime

295
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bro what

296
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I mean the

297
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the biggest reason

298
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to me

299
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is that

300
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in order for something

301
00:23:59,532 --> 00:24:00,352
like that to happen

302
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the

303
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the actual

304
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stuff that would have

305
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to go down

306
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would be so

307
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oh it's a lot

308
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explosive

309
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and detrimental

310
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and destructive

311
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that I, in many ways, I don't really want it to happen,

312
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which sounds weird because obviously I love Bitcoin.

313
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But the amount of people that would get hurt or die or starve

314
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if we actually had fiat implode,

315
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which is necessary for hyper-Bitcoinization.

316
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There's no way that America is switching to a Bitcoin standard

317
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unless the dollar no longer wields any power across the globe

318
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and they have to switch to something else.

319
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And in that case, our lives have gone real bad.

320
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Any American is suffering at that point.

321
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if that has happened. So for me, part of it is just that I don't really even want to see that

322
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outcome because I don't know that the end justifies the means of like, should we destroy

323
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the dollar and all of the things that would fall with that in order to get hyper-Bitcoinization,

324
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which theoretically that would fix those things. But even that we haven't seen play out in practice.

325
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That's part of it. I mean, the other part of it is just that I don't think enough people care

326
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and will take action for it to actually happen.

327
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If the dollar doesn't implode on its own,

328
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which who knows, it certainly could implode on its own.

329
00:25:12,112 --> 00:25:14,292
Many currencies, practically every fiat currency

330
00:25:14,292 --> 00:25:15,652
in history has imploded.

331
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If it doesn't, I don't think that there's like enough people,

332
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will be America specific, enough people here

333
00:25:22,992 --> 00:25:26,272
that will push for an actual Bitcoin standard

334
00:25:26,272 --> 00:25:28,292
for that to happen and replace the dollar.

335
00:25:29,432 --> 00:25:32,232
And governments themselves clearly are disincentivized

336
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to want to upend their own fiat currency,

337
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that they have the inflation lever,

338
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that they have the interest rate lever,

339
00:25:37,432 --> 00:25:39,012
that they can do all of these things with

340
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for something where they essentially have no control over it.

341
00:25:43,192 --> 00:25:44,812
So I think that both ends,

342
00:25:44,932 --> 00:25:46,952
I just, I don't see as realistic outcomes,

343
00:25:47,252 --> 00:25:50,592
but I don't think that really matters, honestly.

344
00:25:50,772 --> 00:25:52,812
I think the beauty of Bitcoin

345
00:25:52,812 --> 00:25:54,792
and what has drawn me to it over the years

346
00:25:54,792 --> 00:25:56,052
and keeps drawing me back to it

347
00:25:56,052 --> 00:25:59,232
is that it acts as freedom money

348
00:25:59,232 --> 00:26:01,012
for anyone who decides to jump in

349
00:26:01,012 --> 00:26:07,272
use it. I would go further than just buy and hold it. I think it's a very Western way to think about

350
00:26:07,272 --> 00:26:12,452
Bitcoin, but much further than that is actually using it, buying goods and services, being paid

351
00:26:12,452 --> 00:26:17,932
in Bitcoin whenever you can, doing side jobs to get paid in Bitcoin, building those circular

352
00:26:17,932 --> 00:26:24,472
economies. That is an effective tool for everyone who opts into it and will benefit your life,

353
00:26:24,532 --> 00:26:29,452
will benefit the lives of those around you. And that will work regardless of whether your fiat

354
00:26:29,452 --> 00:26:32,852
currency is collapsing or not, regardless of whether the dollar is strong or not.

355
00:26:33,592 --> 00:26:38,652
And I think that is the much more important thing, is that it's available to anyone who

356
00:26:38,652 --> 00:26:43,452
is interested in opting into it, who wakes up and understands the need for it, and that

357
00:26:43,452 --> 00:26:45,612
they have the tools available to actually use it day to day.

358
00:26:46,192 --> 00:26:48,572
That's much more important, much more interesting.

359
00:26:48,852 --> 00:26:50,892
And importantly to me, that works today.

360
00:26:51,112 --> 00:26:54,432
Like, I don't need to wait 200 years for hyper-bitcoinization.

361
00:26:54,672 --> 00:26:55,892
I won't be here anyways, obviously.

362
00:26:56,212 --> 00:26:57,752
But Stuart's planning on being here.

363
00:26:57,752 --> 00:26:58,092
Yeah.

364
00:26:58,092 --> 00:27:03,232
some part of him at least yeah his head in the freezer i'm gonna go through cyborgdom into

365
00:27:03,232 --> 00:27:09,132
robothood period you know what i mean like my great great grandkids i'm gonna be picking up

366
00:27:09,132 --> 00:27:14,092
with the kung fu grip but the great great great some odd you know i'm gonna be like hey you want

367
00:27:14,092 --> 00:27:18,632
to go to school i'll pick him up and then just fully like get over i'll have rocket feet yeah

368
00:27:18,632 --> 00:27:26,652
100 that's true yes right think about like a 200 year old bionic oak tree that's gonna be me dude

369
00:27:26,652 --> 00:27:31,032
it's gonna be amazing think about the leaves and then the solar panel it's gonna roll out

370
00:27:31,032 --> 00:27:36,172
the solar panels dude so you'll be a tree or a robot with good feet i think maybe it'll be like

371
00:27:36,172 --> 00:27:41,372
a spirit connection between me like the tree is like where most of my memories are housed kind of

372
00:27:41,372 --> 00:27:46,452
in like an avatar definitely moment right for sure but then i have a physical person that can leave

373
00:27:46,452 --> 00:27:53,292
that's this is hot what's nice is that your great great great great grandchildren will be able to

374
00:27:53,292 --> 00:28:05,704
watch you pontificate about who you wanted to be when you were around for them And with our supply schedule at that I like okay this decades episode is with this person right

375
00:28:06,024 --> 00:28:08,504
It's going to be like world ending. It's going to be amazing.

376
00:28:08,864 --> 00:28:09,984
We really look forward to the first half.

377
00:28:09,984 --> 00:28:12,184
We can't wait to stop putting out so much content.

378
00:28:12,504 --> 00:28:13,664
We can't wait.

379
00:28:13,664 --> 00:28:15,784
We're living for April 20th.

380
00:28:15,784 --> 00:28:19,684
Our content is blasting out of the pipe like the 50 Bitcoin reward, dude.

381
00:28:19,784 --> 00:28:20,584
It's like, shh.

382
00:28:20,844 --> 00:28:21,104
Yeah.

383
00:28:21,104 --> 00:28:26,504
We just hit 1,000 videos on YouTube, and we've only been in production for like 14 months, dude.

384
00:28:26,684 --> 00:28:31,404
But we have to stay at this pace in order to be like Bitcoin, so we're going to do it.

385
00:28:31,604 --> 00:28:34,104
Because if we can't be like Bitcoin, what are we even doing here?

386
00:28:34,404 --> 00:28:35,944
How do you make it to 2028?

387
00:28:36,064 --> 00:28:37,524
That's a lot of content.

388
00:28:37,904 --> 00:28:38,424
It is a lot.

389
00:28:38,524 --> 00:28:43,424
I mean, we have said to each other, this week alone, can't wait for 2028.

390
00:28:43,764 --> 00:28:45,004
It's only like two years away.

391
00:28:45,024 --> 00:28:46,224
At least like four or five times.

392
00:28:46,224 --> 00:28:47,944
It's only like two years away.

393
00:28:48,024 --> 00:28:49,344
Yeah, and that's what he responds with.

394
00:28:49,344 --> 00:28:50,904
I was like, that's a lot of time.

395
00:28:51,104 --> 00:28:52,784
That's a lot of time.

396
00:28:53,644 --> 00:29:17,304
So if you feel like something nasty, nasty would need to happen, I was going to ask you if it's like, okay, well, then is Bitcoin just a way for the common man to kind of protect themselves the same way super rich people buy land and homes and have stock options and stuff like that?

397
00:29:17,304 --> 00:29:22,784
But then you said right there, what's even more important is to create a money network.

398
00:29:23,704 --> 00:29:26,204
And that's like Dr. Jamar was talking about.

399
00:29:26,304 --> 00:29:42,364
It's like a network where if I can earn Satoshi's here on this show and then use them to buy Patrick's great gi, you know, and then he uses that Bitcoin to get some because they're all on Nostra selling all their food products.

400
00:29:42,364 --> 00:29:42,784
Right.

401
00:29:42,784 --> 00:29:49,544
then you kind of create it does feel like a super powerful way to completely sidestep

402
00:29:49,544 --> 00:29:54,544
exactly the current system right and it's like you know when you talk about freedom money

403
00:29:54,544 --> 00:30:01,644
is that what you mean is that you have the freedom to transact or are there other elements

404
00:30:01,644 --> 00:30:07,864
technical or philosophical that go into that like hey this is freedom money yeah i mean the

405
00:30:07,864 --> 00:30:12,224
I think the two pillars of freedom money to me are self-custody.

406
00:30:12,464 --> 00:30:18,964
Obviously, you need to actually be able to take ownership of the Bitcoin because everything else falls apart if someone else is your custodian.

407
00:30:19,084 --> 00:30:25,164
If you're living on Coinbase, et cetera, you don't get any of the benefits of freedom money other than maybe the savings benefits.

408
00:30:25,164 --> 00:30:27,264
But even that can go up in flames quickly.

409
00:30:28,184 --> 00:30:29,624
So it's self-custody.

410
00:30:29,904 --> 00:30:33,204
And then the other pillar is censorship resistance.

411
00:30:33,204 --> 00:30:38,284
The ability to spend where I want, when I want, to who I want without anyone being able to stop me.

412
00:30:39,864 --> 00:30:42,464
Those two things are what are necessary for freedom money.

413
00:30:42,684 --> 00:30:47,944
And the – yeah, like you mentioned, the value to me in Bitcoin goes far beyond just savings.

414
00:30:48,324 --> 00:30:52,564
Savings is to me really a tertiary benefit of the hard money that Bitcoin is.

415
00:30:52,644 --> 00:30:55,224
That's not the goal of Bitcoin to me.

416
00:30:55,224 --> 00:31:05,044
It's actually not very useful if the end game is I buy and hold Bitcoin and then I sell it for fiat when I need fiat.

417
00:31:05,644 --> 00:31:07,104
That's the norm right now.

418
00:31:08,544 --> 00:31:18,284
The biggest problem with that, though, is that at the end of the day, you're beholden to whatever that Bitcoin to fiat bridge is, which right now is a KYC exchange that knows everything about you.

419
00:31:18,284 --> 00:31:21,144
and that can choose to shut down your account at a moment,

420
00:31:21,264 --> 00:31:23,904
can choose to confiscate any funds that you have,

421
00:31:24,404 --> 00:31:28,204
can easily be pressured into doing who knows what with your Bitcoin.

422
00:31:29,424 --> 00:31:33,264
As long as you rely on that bridge, you don't have censorship resistance.

423
00:31:33,444 --> 00:31:34,464
You don't have freedom money.

424
00:31:34,544 --> 00:31:37,344
If you have to go back to fiat to actually do things with your Bitcoin,

425
00:31:38,064 --> 00:31:39,624
to me, it's relatively pointless.

426
00:31:39,924 --> 00:31:42,104
It's essentially just an extension to your 401k.

427
00:31:42,224 --> 00:31:43,504
It's another stock at that point.

428
00:31:43,504 --> 00:31:45,684
And I don't think there's really much value to that.

429
00:31:45,684 --> 00:31:53,724
I know that's a little anti what is pretty common narrative in the Bitcoin space right now, but I don't think that there's a lot of value there.

430
00:31:53,724 --> 00:32:00,964
I think the value lies when you can actually use your Bitcoin to get things that you need, just like you were talking about in this.

431
00:32:01,084 --> 00:32:07,784
Like if there was a hyper Bitcoinization world, you'd be buying the things you actually need, the food for your family, gas for your car, a house, etc.

432
00:32:08,524 --> 00:32:13,164
If you can buy those things with Bitcoin directly, you get all of the benefits of Freedom Money.

433
00:32:13,164 --> 00:32:23,144
Yes, you get the savings and that you're going to have more Bitcoin because you have to actually have it to buy the things that you like, but also because you're sending Bitcoin directly to the person that you're buying something from.

434
00:32:23,744 --> 00:32:24,664
No one's stopping that.

435
00:32:25,004 --> 00:32:30,144
No one even knows that it happened as long as you have relatively good privacy, which is difficult in Bitcoin.

436
00:32:30,864 --> 00:32:33,544
But you're getting all of the benefits of Bitcoin at that point.

437
00:32:33,664 --> 00:32:37,964
And the more people buy into that circular economy, it really becomes a black market.

438
00:32:37,964 --> 00:32:40,444
And a black market sounds like a bad thing.

439
00:32:40,544 --> 00:32:42,764
Like people think like drugs when they think black market.

440
00:32:42,764 --> 00:32:46,764
But all black market means is that it's an economy that lies outside of the normal economy.

441
00:32:47,144 --> 00:32:48,824
And that is what Bitcoin is.

442
00:32:49,064 --> 00:32:50,084
It already is that.

443
00:32:50,564 --> 00:32:55,064
It's also white market money, honestly, which is the – that's the ETFs.

444
00:32:55,204 --> 00:32:59,164
That's the ways that most people are getting into it, buying it on Cash App and not withdrawing.

445
00:32:59,524 --> 00:33:00,624
It can be that too.

446
00:33:00,744 --> 00:33:04,104
But the beautiful thing of Bitcoin is it can be both at the same time.

447
00:33:04,544 --> 00:33:12,424
And even as it gets folded more and more and more into the legacy financial system, as long as this black market part of it, this circular economy part of it,

448
00:33:12,424 --> 00:33:17,644
continues to grow, that's where the value is because that's where people actually get benefit

449
00:33:17,644 --> 00:33:22,324
day to day. And while, like we talked about, there's not as much perceived need in the US and

450
00:33:22,324 --> 00:33:27,244
the West for that thing. Like we were talking before we went live, like I buy maple syrup every

451
00:33:27,244 --> 00:33:32,384
year with Bitcoin. I don't need to do that. Like I could go to Costco and I can buy my maple syrup.

452
00:33:32,504 --> 00:33:35,824
It'd probably be a little cheaper. It wouldn't be as good of quality, but I could do that.

453
00:33:36,484 --> 00:33:40,884
The reason I do it is I want that circular economy to grow because if something changes

454
00:33:40,884 --> 00:33:44,464
and for some reason I have to use my Bitcoin to buy goods and services,

455
00:33:44,624 --> 00:33:48,304
the more people are part of that network, the more places I have to go,

456
00:33:48,804 --> 00:33:52,844
the more powerful my Bitcoin that I have saved up will actually be at the end of the day.

457
00:33:53,904 --> 00:33:56,564
And I think that's why I'm here.

458
00:33:56,564 --> 00:34:03,564
I'm not really here for the stack sats, sell for fiat down the line and retire early aspect.

459
00:34:03,684 --> 00:34:05,524
That's fine, but I can do that with stocks.

460
00:34:05,744 --> 00:34:07,124
Yes, Bitcoin has outperformed them.

461
00:34:07,784 --> 00:34:09,004
So far, that could change.

462
00:34:09,004 --> 00:34:13,084
but I'm really here for the circular economy piece of things.

463
00:34:13,524 --> 00:34:15,564
And I think that's what we have to drive towards.

464
00:34:15,684 --> 00:34:17,444
And that's what if you look outside of the West,

465
00:34:17,564 --> 00:34:19,124
that's what people are using this stuff for.

466
00:34:19,564 --> 00:34:21,684
Unfortunately, they're not generally using Bitcoin for that

467
00:34:21,684 --> 00:34:23,464
for a multitude of reasons.

468
00:34:23,644 --> 00:34:25,984
Generally, they're using stable coins, Tether, etc.,

469
00:34:25,984 --> 00:34:29,064
which don't have censorship resistance and are not freedom money.

470
00:34:29,704 --> 00:34:32,744
But those things are actually providing them the freedom that they need.

471
00:34:32,744 --> 00:34:35,884
They're building circular economies with other cryptocurrencies right now.

472
00:34:35,884 --> 00:34:48,764
And the dream is that we pull those people back into Bitcoin and we show how useful Bitcoin can be in those situations and how resilient it is because things can shift quickly when you're talking about like Tether as a stable coin.

473
00:34:49,484 --> 00:34:52,164
Tether, the entity, can just say your Tether is now frozen.

474
00:34:52,384 --> 00:34:53,204
It doesn't exist anymore.

475
00:34:53,664 --> 00:34:55,204
No one can do that with your Bitcoin.

476
00:34:55,444 --> 00:35:01,664
So if you have a local community in Guatemala where everything is bought and sold with Bitcoin, no one's stopping that no matter what.

477
00:35:01,764 --> 00:35:03,364
If you're doing it all with Tether, that can change.

478
00:35:03,364 --> 00:35:04,824
We saw that in Venezuela recently.

479
00:35:04,824 --> 00:35:09,444
Tether froze like $180 million in Tether with the flick of a switch.

480
00:35:09,664 --> 00:35:11,504
They can do that at any time.

481
00:35:11,904 --> 00:35:13,184
And they can't do that with Bitcoin.

482
00:35:13,444 --> 00:35:15,644
That's why I want to see everyone start switching to that.

483
00:35:16,204 --> 00:35:20,324
So if you could go back and do it all over again,

484
00:35:21,144 --> 00:35:25,604
what would you do differently as a brand new Bitcoiner?

485
00:35:27,804 --> 00:35:29,064
That's a really good question.

486
00:35:29,064 --> 00:35:42,484
I think the biggest thing for me is that I would, I mean, the simple thing, if you're listening to this, you've heard it a hundred times, but just taking custody of my own coins.

487
00:35:42,764 --> 00:35:44,024
Like, it sounds very straightforward.

488
00:35:44,204 --> 00:35:45,164
It is very straightforward.

489
00:35:45,444 --> 00:35:47,344
People make it seem way harder than it is.

490
00:35:47,744 --> 00:35:52,484
If you can write down 12 words and save them somewhere, you can take self-custody of your Bitcoin.

491
00:35:53,204 --> 00:35:54,664
That's the obvious starting point.

492
00:35:54,664 --> 00:36:01,404
beyond that, it would be start figuring out that circular economy piece, find local merchants that

493
00:36:01,404 --> 00:36:05,824
you can spend Bitcoin at, find a local Bitcoin meetup where I can actually find others who are

494
00:36:05,824 --> 00:36:11,944
willing to do work and find a plumber, find a, uh, an electrician, find a contractor, find whatever

495
00:36:11,944 --> 00:36:16,284
the things that I need are, try to find people who are Bitcoiners in my area who can actually

496
00:36:16,284 --> 00:36:21,604
start doing things for Bitcoin, build that circular economy and just be willing to,

497
00:36:21,604 --> 00:36:28,284
especially as privileged as most of us are here in the West, spend extra to support that circular

498
00:36:28,284 --> 00:36:34,404
economy. Buy things that maybe you need, but you could get somewhere else for cheaper and be willing

499
00:36:34,404 --> 00:36:39,424
to do that to help to get this circular economy off the ground, help it to thrive. And I wish I

500
00:36:39,424 --> 00:36:45,784
had jumped into that sooner because quite honestly, it took me probably five or six years of being in

501
00:36:45,784 --> 00:36:51,624
Bitcoin before I actually felt like, oh, I could be spending this. And then once I did, I realized

502
00:36:51,624 --> 00:36:57,264
not only is this like philosophically really cool, but it's also just like, it's kind of magic.

503
00:36:57,264 --> 00:37:01,364
Like someone can just send me a string of characters. I can send them money in a way

504
00:37:01,364 --> 00:37:05,144
that literally no one can stop. And most people don't know what's happening in that transaction

505
00:37:05,144 --> 00:37:09,924
either. I get the good and service I want. And there was no middleman. There's no credit card

506
00:37:09,924 --> 00:37:16,984
there's no my apple doesn't know about it chase doesn't know about it like it's a it's a really

507
00:37:16,984 --> 00:37:20,964
powerful thing and lightning makes that even better in the sense that oftentimes the user

508
00:37:20,964 --> 00:37:25,124
experience if we do it right can be even better than if i was doing a credit card or something

509
00:37:25,124 --> 00:37:30,984
like that it's better than venmo paypal etc um and i wish i had gotten into that earlier because

510
00:37:30,984 --> 00:37:35,624
it took me so long but once you do that i feel like a switch flips like once you start actually

511
00:37:35,624 --> 00:37:41,384
spending your Bitcoin. And I know that also goes against a lot of the mantras in the Bitcoin space.

512
00:37:41,384 --> 00:37:49,224
But honestly, I think that a lot of those like hodl, save, don't spend things slowed down my

513
00:37:49,224 --> 00:37:53,804
journey a lot because I was deep in the podcast circuits and I'm not bashing any specific podcast

514
00:37:53,804 --> 00:37:58,124
or anything, but I was listening to all the podcasts and everyone was talking about digital

515
00:37:58,124 --> 00:38:03,744
gold, save, don't spend, stack sats, don't ever touch your Bitcoin, like just keep getting more.

516
00:38:03,744 --> 00:38:10,524
and it's okay but i wish i had had someone push me earlier to be like you can actually spend this

517
00:38:10,524 --> 00:38:15,144
stuff like the power is when you can spend it for things that you want and no one can stop you

518
00:38:15,144 --> 00:38:21,144
that's where the value comes from so do you think it is a part of what slowed you down and like

519
00:38:21,144 --> 00:38:30,044
actually spending it is the comfort of sending it like of actually like sending bitcoin or sending

520
00:38:30,044 --> 00:38:38,244
sats because we actually had like this reminds me of our conversation earlier today like i send all

521
00:38:38,244 --> 00:38:45,824
the sats for sat chats like so i'm like engaging the network frequently and i mean granted if i'm

522
00:38:45,824 --> 00:38:49,044
going to send larger amounts i want to send a small test amount just to make sure i'm not an

523
00:38:49,044 --> 00:38:54,944
idiot because that's responsible yeah but like sending large amounts and actually engaging

524
00:38:54,944 --> 00:38:57,904
is not it feels like sending someone a Venmo.

525
00:38:58,244 --> 00:38:58,424
Yeah.

526
00:38:58,924 --> 00:39:03,384
And like it's just it feels very normal because I've been doing it.

527
00:39:03,624 --> 00:39:09,504
But if I wasn't doing it with Satchats, I like would not be familiar with it.

528
00:39:09,504 --> 00:39:17,884
I wouldn't be comfortable with it because like I don't feel like I have enough right now to like buy into this circular economy

529
00:39:17,884 --> 00:39:20,224
because I'm like building up my stack.

530
00:39:20,224 --> 00:39:28,704
but it's just I think feeling like you are comfortable with that process is a big hurdle

531
00:39:28,704 --> 00:39:35,084
yeah no I definitely agree and I think that that was a part of it I think just like self-custody

532
00:39:35,084 --> 00:39:40,484
which seems really daunting at first and then when you actually do it and you practice restoring

533
00:39:40,484 --> 00:39:45,004
a backup a couple times you're like this is so stupid this is simple like why why did I not do

534
00:39:45,004 --> 00:39:50,004
this before. Like I was so scared of something that is really trivial. Yes, you have to be

535
00:39:50,004 --> 00:39:54,384
careful. Like don't be an idiot, but it's really simple in concept and simple in execution.

536
00:39:54,984 --> 00:39:58,604
I think it's really the same for spending Bitcoin. I think if you, if you have this,

537
00:39:59,164 --> 00:40:02,324
a, you have this narrative of don't spend your Bitcoin. That's the first hurdle you have to get

538
00:40:02,324 --> 00:40:07,904
over, which I think is a, is a, a, a harmful narrative that has been kind of permeating the

539
00:40:07,904 --> 00:40:13,084
Bitcoin space for a long time now, five, six years at the very least. Once you get past that and you

540
00:40:13,084 --> 00:40:18,344
actually start sending Bitcoin, it's just like self-custody. You realize like, this is stupid

541
00:40:18,344 --> 00:40:24,364
easy. Like it's not scary. Wallets are quite good these days. Wallets validate addresses to make

542
00:40:24,364 --> 00:40:29,124
sure that they're legitimate, that they're Bitcoin addresses. The actual way that you verify

543
00:40:29,124 --> 00:40:32,444
addresses has gotten a lot better. The way that we display addresses has gotten better.

544
00:40:33,204 --> 00:40:38,704
In Lightning, we have things like LNURL and LN addresses. And we have things that can

545
00:40:38,704 --> 00:40:44,724
give you a human readable element now so that you have a lot a lot more of a paypal or venmo like

546
00:40:44,724 --> 00:40:50,084
experience and we can do that without giving up custody now we have things like bip 353 which is

547
00:40:50,084 --> 00:40:55,644
bitcoin usernames that can do on chain and lightning those are really important steps because those

548
00:40:55,644 --> 00:40:59,204
lower that hurdle even more i mean there's always going to be that initial hurdle of like

549
00:40:59,204 --> 00:41:04,864
what is this long string of characters and what do i do with it and what goes wrong if i if i type

550
00:41:04,864 --> 00:41:09,784
one wrong or if I paste into the wrong thing. But the human readable side helps with that. But even

551
00:41:09,784 --> 00:41:13,984
when you're just talking straight addresses, it's really straightforward. If you can read 10

552
00:41:13,984 --> 00:41:17,204
characters to verify at the front and read 10 characters at the end and validate those,

553
00:41:17,764 --> 00:41:23,404
you're good. And once you get used to it, you'll only be doing the more complex stuff with big

554
00:41:23,404 --> 00:41:26,984
spends. If I'm sending $50,000 in Bitcoin, obviously I'm going to take extra steps.

555
00:41:26,984 --> 00:41:29,804
That's going to be on a hardware wallet. So it's going to take a little bit more

556
00:41:29,804 --> 00:41:34,724
thought in how I'm actually going to spend that. But there's going to be extra verification that

557
00:41:34,724 --> 00:41:41,464
helps protect me. But yeah, once you, once you do it, you just realize like, this is not hard.

558
00:41:41,584 --> 00:41:47,124
It's not hard. And like you said, now to me, it's, it's second nature. Like I can, I could send a

559
00:41:47,124 --> 00:41:52,864
Bitcoin transaction much easier and much faster than I could do a PayPal or Venmo or something.

560
00:41:53,404 --> 00:42:03,116
It at least at that level if not better Uh but a lot of that does just take like you have to actually get your feet wet So I think like that is definitely one of my recommendations for people is like just get started

561
00:42:03,456 --> 00:42:04,176
Try this.

562
00:42:04,256 --> 00:42:05,676
You don't have to spend all your Bitcoin.

563
00:42:05,896 --> 00:42:07,176
You don't have to save all your Bitcoin.

564
00:42:07,656 --> 00:42:10,396
But just try it and see what happens.

565
00:42:10,536 --> 00:42:11,556
See what people you meet.

566
00:42:11,656 --> 00:42:17,796
See what community you get into because you start actually spending Bitcoin or start accepting Bitcoin for the work that you do.

567
00:42:17,796 --> 00:42:21,536
and that will open up a whole other world

568
00:42:21,536 --> 00:42:24,196
that I think is much more important, honestly,

569
00:42:24,376 --> 00:42:25,816
and much more necessary

570
00:42:25,816 --> 00:42:29,756
than the just saving stack sats side of things,

571
00:42:29,796 --> 00:42:30,676
which is a piece of it,

572
00:42:30,796 --> 00:42:32,836
but quickly gets undermined

573
00:42:32,836 --> 00:42:34,256
if you always have to go back to fiat

574
00:42:34,256 --> 00:42:35,756
to actually do anything with that Bitcoin.

575
00:42:37,196 --> 00:42:41,396
Well, it's clear that there is so much to Bitcoin

576
00:42:41,396 --> 00:42:44,596
that we will never be able to fit it

577
00:42:44,596 --> 00:42:46,696
into a single chat about sats.

578
00:42:46,696 --> 00:42:55,576
So we do ask each of our guests if they'd be willing to come back on in nine months to give us an update on their Bitcoin baby.

579
00:42:55,756 --> 00:42:57,576
Would you be willing to do that for us, Seth?

580
00:42:57,716 --> 00:42:58,676
Yeah, I'd love to do that.

581
00:42:58,816 --> 00:42:59,336
Let's go.

582
00:43:00,816 --> 00:43:06,576
I actually think you might be a tall stack candidate for like privacy and other things.

583
00:43:06,656 --> 00:43:07,616
We haven't even touched on privacy.

584
00:43:07,736 --> 00:43:10,136
It's literally my name and we haven't even touched on it.

585
00:43:10,276 --> 00:43:10,896
I know, dude.

586
00:43:11,036 --> 00:43:12,116
Seth for privacy.

587
00:43:12,516 --> 00:43:13,596
We haven't even got to it.

588
00:43:13,776 --> 00:43:15,136
I was like, is that your middle name?

589
00:43:15,496 --> 00:43:15,936
Last name.

590
00:43:15,936 --> 00:43:21,876
So what born into it? One thing. That's nice. It's nice to know where you're going to be. Exactly.

591
00:43:21,976 --> 00:43:25,516
The substitute teacher is like for privacy, Seth, are you here?

592
00:43:25,876 --> 00:43:43,216
You know, the tall stacks are a new line that we're doing for members of the channel where it's me and someone else going for two to three hours so far down the rabbit hole that we just cannot publish it for the brand new Bitcoiners in the main channel.

593
00:43:43,216 --> 00:43:44,276
Kevin does not join.

594
00:43:44,836 --> 00:43:47,416
It's like a member's, she's like, she's out.

595
00:43:47,556 --> 00:43:49,656
She's going to go watch the top model documentary.

596
00:43:50,816 --> 00:43:56,636
But like, that's, you know, because we're here welcoming in as many brand new Bitcoiners as possible.

597
00:43:56,796 --> 00:43:58,996
But I'm also pushing down the rabbit hole myself.

598
00:43:58,996 --> 00:44:00,456
I'm still relatively new.

599
00:44:00,796 --> 00:44:03,396
And I'm like, get me in here.

600
00:44:03,396 --> 00:44:07,536
Like, what exactly is a chain split?

601
00:44:07,536 --> 00:44:15,056
You know, why exactly is privacy important and kind of quasi not achievable in Bitcoin?

602
00:44:15,256 --> 00:44:15,436
Right.

603
00:44:15,516 --> 00:44:18,636
So the next time you're in Raleigh, we need to have you.

604
00:44:18,796 --> 00:44:23,336
You and me will just go like way down deep, way down deep.

605
00:44:24,016 --> 00:44:25,116
I'll provide snacks.

606
00:44:25,396 --> 00:44:25,856
There you go.

607
00:44:26,316 --> 00:44:26,796
Yeah.

608
00:44:26,976 --> 00:44:27,956
Abe's will take care of us.

609
00:44:28,016 --> 00:44:33,776
So speaking of shneeks, why don't we turn it over to Ithaca Hummus?

610
00:44:33,776 --> 00:44:40,816
Our buy the dip moment sponsor, Ithaca Hummus, reminds us to buy the dip.

611
00:44:41,316 --> 00:44:48,756
But you can do both at the grocery store and on the Bitcoin exchange space, right?

612
00:44:49,616 --> 00:44:54,156
Unless you're like Seth and you're like, no, I'm going to get some non-KYC Bitcoin directly from a peer.

613
00:44:54,916 --> 00:44:55,316
Always.

614
00:44:56,296 --> 00:44:57,276
Let's go.

615
00:44:57,676 --> 00:44:59,456
I didn't want to like go overwhelmingly big.

616
00:44:59,876 --> 00:45:02,296
My daughter drew that right behind you, dude.

617
00:45:02,296 --> 00:45:04,656
That's me with laser eyes and the fat glob.

618
00:45:04,896 --> 00:45:06,196
So I'm going to get the fat glob.

619
00:45:06,396 --> 00:45:08,516
That was so fat that my finger touched it a little bit.

620
00:45:09,056 --> 00:45:09,816
Thanks for sharing.

621
00:45:09,816 --> 00:45:10,636
I'm glad I was first.

622
00:45:10,916 --> 00:45:11,356
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

623
00:45:11,356 --> 00:45:12,316
I'm also glad that you.

624
00:45:12,556 --> 00:45:13,056
Okay, we're going to.

625
00:45:13,076 --> 00:45:14,196
I'm a good hand washer.

626
00:45:14,256 --> 00:45:16,676
Okay, we are tasting today the French onion.

627
00:45:16,676 --> 00:45:17,536
This is going to be so good.

628
00:45:17,616 --> 00:45:17,916
Oh, my God.

629
00:45:18,236 --> 00:45:19,676
Which is great.

630
00:45:19,776 --> 00:45:20,156
Okay, ready?

631
00:45:20,156 --> 00:45:20,496
Go.

632
00:45:20,596 --> 00:45:20,776
Cheers.

633
00:45:24,356 --> 00:45:24,716
Mmm.

634
00:45:25,816 --> 00:45:26,176
Mmm.

635
00:45:28,896 --> 00:45:30,016
Dude, yum, dude.

636
00:45:30,496 --> 00:45:31,076
Okay, that's good.

637
00:45:31,076 --> 00:45:31,936
Oh, my God.

638
00:45:32,296 --> 00:45:33,596
I like feel it in my cheeks.

639
00:45:36,716 --> 00:45:37,656
So good.

640
00:45:39,516 --> 00:45:42,476
So this is our gift to you.

641
00:45:43,476 --> 00:45:45,576
Is this tub of French onion.

642
00:45:45,756 --> 00:45:46,676
Yum, dude.

643
00:45:46,896 --> 00:45:47,356
Hummus.

644
00:45:47,536 --> 00:45:48,856
How does that treat you, brother?

645
00:45:49,896 --> 00:45:50,976
That's delicious, honestly.

646
00:45:51,276 --> 00:45:55,296
I actually, I like hummus a lot, but I normally eat pretty plain hummus.

647
00:45:55,636 --> 00:45:57,676
I love that that one's like, it's got a pop.

648
00:45:57,876 --> 00:45:58,796
It's got a pop of flavor.

649
00:45:58,936 --> 00:45:59,936
And I love French onion soup.

650
00:46:00,276 --> 00:46:00,556
Yeah.

651
00:46:00,556 --> 00:46:02,616
It tastes like French onion soup.

652
00:46:02,896 --> 00:46:03,836
I mean, a tub.

653
00:46:04,136 --> 00:46:05,616
Yeah, like cold French onion soup.

654
00:46:05,936 --> 00:46:06,956
Like me and the boys.

655
00:46:07,216 --> 00:46:08,056
Which sounds weird, but it's good.

656
00:46:08,176 --> 00:46:08,696
It's good.

657
00:46:09,076 --> 00:46:09,496
It works.

658
00:46:09,816 --> 00:46:16,556
When my playgroup gets together, okay, Magic the Gathering.

659
00:46:16,576 --> 00:46:17,796
Yeah, I was like, what playgroup?

660
00:46:18,196 --> 00:46:20,196
Do you play Magic the Gathering?

661
00:46:20,336 --> 00:46:20,836
I don't.

662
00:46:20,876 --> 00:46:21,556
Dude, you absolutely should.

663
00:46:21,576 --> 00:46:22,436
I wish I had the time.

664
00:46:22,616 --> 00:46:23,116
I want to.

665
00:46:23,356 --> 00:46:23,596
Yeah.

666
00:46:24,056 --> 00:46:25,536
Well, next time you're in Raleigh, you're like, come on over here, dude.

667
00:46:25,596 --> 00:46:26,736
I got decks for you.

668
00:46:26,836 --> 00:46:27,136
Teach me the way.

669
00:46:27,236 --> 00:46:27,596
Exactly.

670
00:46:28,156 --> 00:46:28,756
Oh, gosh.

671
00:46:28,756 --> 00:46:31,596
Do we put that out like because we would get the ruffle chips?

672
00:46:31,596 --> 00:46:36,296
Oh, yeah, and we would get the white kind of French onion whatever from like lay where he we know whatever

673
00:46:36,316 --> 00:46:41,176
French is this is like a billion times better than that white stuff and a billion times better now

674
00:46:41,176 --> 00:46:45,816
Do we have the trading cards in here still? Yes, they're behind the we have another good pillar

675
00:46:47,116 --> 00:46:49,116
Okay, I see. Oh, I love these things

676
00:46:50,116 --> 00:46:51,516
Okay

677
00:46:51,516 --> 00:46:53,516
Okay, so we have another

678
00:46:53,516 --> 00:46:56,016
We have another gift for you.

679
00:46:56,276 --> 00:47:03,176
These are based trading cards from our very own number 83 Aladdin.

680
00:47:04,196 --> 00:47:06,836
He wanted to break Bitcoin down into like.

681
00:47:08,116 --> 00:47:08,876
Bite size nuggets.

682
00:47:09,196 --> 00:47:09,556
Yeah.

683
00:47:09,836 --> 00:47:11,356
What do you study with?

684
00:47:11,556 --> 00:47:12,216
Index cards?

685
00:47:12,456 --> 00:47:13,036
You know what I mean?

686
00:47:13,096 --> 00:47:13,756
Kind of like that.

687
00:47:13,856 --> 00:47:15,296
Little concepts here.

688
00:47:15,676 --> 00:47:18,136
This is the unlimited set.

689
00:47:18,296 --> 00:47:22,356
But each year he releases a new set with only 21,000 packs.

690
00:47:22,356 --> 00:47:25,216
and like there's like actual card scarcity.

691
00:47:25,396 --> 00:47:28,916
Imagine the Gathering, Hasbro is printing new commanders

692
00:47:28,916 --> 00:47:33,176
like a billion every year and I'm like drowning in it.

693
00:47:33,496 --> 00:47:34,576
This is actually scarce.

694
00:47:34,636 --> 00:47:36,876
And he just released his new set, Series 4.

695
00:47:37,276 --> 00:47:40,536
Dude, the boxes are like $20,000 or more.

696
00:47:40,636 --> 00:47:41,876
I was like, I was on the website.

697
00:47:41,976 --> 00:47:46,656
I'm like, how could you possibly pay that much money for that?

698
00:47:46,656 --> 00:47:49,536
But then like Logan Paul just sold a Pokemon card

699
00:47:49,536 --> 00:47:51,736
for 16 million bucks recently.

700
00:47:51,736 --> 00:47:53,396
Did you see that million dollars?

701
00:47:53,616 --> 00:47:59,656
He auctioned off a Pokemon car that he's had for years that he bought for like six million.

702
00:47:59,736 --> 00:48:01,116
It went for 16 million.

703
00:48:01,716 --> 00:48:03,696
And all of my for six million.

704
00:48:03,876 --> 00:48:04,156
Yes.

705
00:48:04,176 --> 00:48:05,796
And he just like auctioned off for 16.

706
00:48:06,336 --> 00:48:08,196
I mean, that is that's sort of good.

707
00:48:08,296 --> 00:48:09,096
But what?

708
00:48:09,276 --> 00:48:14,976
So all of my absolute friends and legends in the like base trading card telegram community,

709
00:48:14,976 --> 00:48:17,036
like they're snatching up the new stuff.

710
00:48:17,276 --> 00:48:20,336
That's a little starter pack for you to take home.

711
00:48:20,516 --> 00:48:21,396
These are awesome.

712
00:48:21,396 --> 00:48:23,016
Aladdin's doing good work. I've loved these.

713
00:48:23,296 --> 00:48:25,456
So you're familiar. I do. I only have a couple packs.

714
00:48:25,536 --> 00:48:27,516
I keep wanting to buy some, but I never actually

715
00:48:27,516 --> 00:48:29,396
do. So I have two packs that other people

716
00:48:29,396 --> 00:48:31,096
will give me, and now this is my third, I think.

717
00:48:31,996 --> 00:48:33,396
I'm pretty fresh.

718
00:48:33,796 --> 00:48:35,556
They're going to kill me for stacking this like this,

719
00:48:35,616 --> 00:48:37,156
but we pulled some packs,

720
00:48:37,156 --> 00:48:38,396
and this is

721
00:48:38,396 --> 00:48:41,016
our Omega pull

722
00:48:41,016 --> 00:48:43,056
that we have. This is the 21 out of

723
00:48:43,056 --> 00:48:44,636
21 right there, dude.

724
00:48:45,116 --> 00:48:45,816
Crushed it.

725
00:48:46,796 --> 00:48:49,076
We absolutely had no idea what we had

726
00:48:49,076 --> 00:48:51,356
pulled. We should have lost

727
00:48:51,356 --> 00:48:53,136
our minds, but we had no idea.

728
00:48:53,216 --> 00:48:55,116
My son and I, we did it. We pulled it on camera

729
00:48:55,116 --> 00:48:57,296
and everybody in the

730
00:48:57,296 --> 00:48:58,976
telegram community was like, dude, I'll give you

731
00:48:58,976 --> 00:49:00,736
$1,000 for that. We were like, bro.

732
00:49:02,296 --> 00:49:02,856
Fun the show.

733
00:49:03,296 --> 00:49:04,376
Fun the show, dude.

734
00:49:05,136 --> 00:49:06,216
I'm going to hang on to it.

735
00:49:06,596 --> 00:49:08,076
We're going to sell it for even more later.

736
00:49:08,176 --> 00:49:09,116
For $21 million, maybe?

737
00:49:09,476 --> 00:49:12,036
For $21 million. Yes! That's what they were saying.

738
00:49:12,276 --> 00:49:13,516
That does seem right.

739
00:49:13,696 --> 00:49:14,496
That's what they were saying.

740
00:49:14,496 --> 00:49:15,916
I don't think about that number that feels good.

741
00:49:15,956 --> 00:49:17,536
I don't know where it's from.

742
00:49:17,876 --> 00:49:20,076
We got one more gift.

743
00:49:20,816 --> 00:49:22,016
We did the hummus gift.

744
00:49:22,136 --> 00:49:23,896
We did the trading card gift.

745
00:49:23,976 --> 00:49:24,736
We got one more.

746
00:49:25,196 --> 00:49:25,596
Yes.

747
00:49:26,816 --> 00:49:27,716
Dirty fiat?

748
00:49:28,416 --> 00:49:30,576
Well, you'll get the explanation.

749
00:49:30,916 --> 00:49:32,016
You're interrupting the speech.

750
00:49:32,216 --> 00:49:33,096
Not your only choice.

751
00:49:33,256 --> 00:49:33,816
No, no.

752
00:49:34,316 --> 00:49:42,056
This brings us to our Sats versus Cash decision powered by salt.

753
00:49:42,316 --> 00:49:44,176
Shout out, number 123, Sean.

754
00:49:44,376 --> 00:49:44,716
Correct.

755
00:49:44,956 --> 00:49:45,576
Love you, boo-boo.

756
00:49:45,576 --> 00:49:52,056
And so at Satchats, we believe in value for value.

757
00:49:52,456 --> 00:50:06,976
And in exchange for your time and coming on our show, we would like to give you your choice between $50 in fiat and $50 in Bitcoin, which at today's exchange rate is 74,649 sats.

758
00:50:07,396 --> 00:50:08,856
What would you like to choose?

759
00:50:09,076 --> 00:50:10,476
I am absolutely taking those sats.

760
00:50:10,756 --> 00:50:11,856
Taking them sats.

761
00:50:12,036 --> 00:50:13,156
High five, dude.

762
00:50:13,576 --> 00:50:14,616
Whoa, whoa.

763
00:50:14,616 --> 00:50:15,256
There you go.

764
00:50:15,256 --> 00:50:15,996
Ladies first.

765
00:50:16,256 --> 00:50:16,776
There we go.

766
00:50:16,916 --> 00:50:17,676
Here it is.

767
00:50:18,196 --> 00:50:19,216
All right, Seth, you.

768
00:50:19,216 --> 00:50:21,156
I said sats instead of satoshis.

769
00:50:21,696 --> 00:50:22,436
Shorten it up.

770
00:50:22,976 --> 00:50:23,456
It's sats.

771
00:50:23,576 --> 00:50:24,336
Season three.

772
00:50:24,996 --> 00:50:25,896
Satoshis gets wrong.

773
00:50:26,176 --> 00:50:26,696
It's just sats.

774
00:50:26,956 --> 00:50:27,996
You just go sats.

775
00:50:28,116 --> 00:50:28,556
Yeah, just sats.

776
00:50:28,576 --> 00:50:30,956
Sometimes we get in there with the whole thing.

777
00:50:31,056 --> 00:50:31,316
Yeah.

778
00:50:31,756 --> 00:50:32,796
It's a fun thing to say.

779
00:50:32,896 --> 00:50:34,216
Stuart says a lot of weird words.

780
00:50:34,356 --> 00:50:35,836
I just want to say satoshis.

781
00:50:37,156 --> 00:50:42,876
I also think when we divide satoshis down into 100 million units, they should be called nakamotos.

782
00:50:43,416 --> 00:50:43,936
Know what I mean?

783
00:50:44,296 --> 00:50:45,196
Sats and necks.

784
00:50:45,256 --> 00:50:46,356
Sats and knacks, dude.

785
00:50:46,516 --> 00:50:47,256
Stack and knacks.

786
00:50:48,236 --> 00:50:49,216
Knack attack.

787
00:50:49,716 --> 00:50:50,156
Yes.

788
00:50:50,636 --> 00:50:51,196
That's nice.

789
00:50:51,296 --> 00:50:51,836
Knack time.

790
00:50:52,716 --> 00:50:54,396
All right, so you bring our show.

791
00:50:54,456 --> 00:50:55,116
Look at this.

792
00:50:55,116 --> 00:51:01,996
Our show's scoreboard is now 190 who have chosen to stack the sats

793
00:51:01,996 --> 00:51:07,796
and 10 who need a little bit more time.

794
00:51:07,936 --> 00:51:11,516
And when they come back on in nine months, he did come back.

795
00:51:11,716 --> 00:51:12,196
He came back.

796
00:51:12,376 --> 00:51:13,756
He chose sats a second time.

797
00:51:13,936 --> 00:51:14,116
He did.

798
00:51:14,116 --> 00:51:15,396
Thank you, number nine, Paul.

799
00:51:15,656 --> 00:51:16,376
He did learn.

800
00:51:16,556 --> 00:51:16,836
He did.

801
00:51:16,876 --> 00:51:19,296
He was the first person to pick cash.

802
00:51:19,296 --> 00:51:23,536
He was our first person to pick cash and the first person to pick stats the second time he came back.

803
00:51:23,616 --> 00:51:24,296
So that was good.

804
00:51:24,416 --> 00:51:25,116
Redemption story.

805
00:51:25,396 --> 00:51:26,336
It was a redemption arc.

806
00:51:26,616 --> 00:51:27,056
It was good.

807
00:51:28,136 --> 00:51:36,356
So, Seth, where can our Satillionaires go to spend more time with Seth for Privacy and or Cake Wallet?

808
00:51:36,796 --> 00:51:37,376
Yeah, absolutely.

809
00:51:37,376 --> 00:51:40,276
so as far as me

810
00:51:40,276 --> 00:51:43,696
best place is going to be either my blog slash website

811
00:51:43,696 --> 00:51:47,036
sethforprivacy.com I've written a lot about stuff we talked about here

812
00:51:47,036 --> 00:51:50,976
more about privacy than what we've touched on here

813
00:51:50,976 --> 00:51:53,376
like obviously it is in the name I lean on that pretty heavily

814
00:51:53,376 --> 00:51:55,916
or Twitter at sethforprivacy

815
00:51:55,916 --> 00:52:00,116
for CakeWallet so a little bit of a very quick intro

816
00:52:00,116 --> 00:52:01,976
I'm COO at CakeWallet

817
00:52:01,976 --> 00:52:06,016
we're essentially trying to make self-custody really easy and privacy really easy

818
00:52:06,016 --> 00:52:10,976
in Bitcoin. We started as a Monero-only wallet, but heavily focused on Bitcoin as well now.

819
00:52:11,356 --> 00:52:16,636
Doing things like silent payments, which gives you a reusable privacy-preserving address in

820
00:52:16,636 --> 00:52:21,636
Bitcoin. Things like PayJoin, which let you have better privacy. When I'm sending Bitcoin to you,

821
00:52:21,696 --> 00:52:25,736
we actually work together to build a transaction instead of me just sending it. That gives both of

822
00:52:25,736 --> 00:52:29,516
us better privacy. Doing things like that, try to push the boundaries of what's possible when

823
00:52:29,516 --> 00:52:33,676
you're actually using Bitcoin when it comes to privacy. But if you want to learn more about

824
00:52:33,676 --> 00:52:38,076
cakewallet just cakewallet.com it's short and sweet nice and simple where did the name come from

825
00:52:38,076 --> 00:52:44,816
so it so vic our founder started it back in 2018 back then a lot of the like bitcoin wallets were

826
00:52:44,816 --> 00:52:50,576
like bread bake i'm trying to think there were a lot of like food based just like weird names

827
00:52:50,576 --> 00:52:54,856
and he wanted something that would fit in with that but also be like a little more fun than bread

828
00:52:54,856 --> 00:53:01,456
like bread's a little lame bread's a little routine no one's like oh bread yes but cake

829
00:53:01,456 --> 00:53:03,716
I mean, if he had named it sourdough,

830
00:53:03,796 --> 00:53:05,036
he would have been way ahead of his time.

831
00:53:05,056 --> 00:53:05,676
That's true.

832
00:53:06,136 --> 00:53:07,376
Way ahead of his time.

833
00:53:07,516 --> 00:53:08,616
Full-on hipster at that point.

834
00:53:08,756 --> 00:53:09,216
That's hot.

835
00:53:10,096 --> 00:53:11,716
My dad has gotten into sourdough,

836
00:53:11,856 --> 00:53:13,776
and it is his entire personality this year.

837
00:53:13,796 --> 00:53:14,576
He's now a big sourdough.

838
00:53:14,576 --> 00:53:15,636
He's a sourdough maxi.

839
00:53:15,736 --> 00:53:18,256
Yeah, I think it's the same kind of arc that Bitcoiners go on.

840
00:53:18,496 --> 00:53:20,616
You start with simple bread, and then you're like,

841
00:53:20,636 --> 00:53:21,896
I should get the higher-quality bread,

842
00:53:21,976 --> 00:53:23,336
and then you figure out sourdough.

843
00:53:23,476 --> 00:53:26,336
The next thing you know, you're sharing the mother with other people,

844
00:53:26,536 --> 00:53:27,556
and it gets weird.

845
00:53:27,556 --> 00:53:28,156
It gets weird.

846
00:53:28,916 --> 00:53:30,496
I don't know anything about sourdough, though.

847
00:53:30,496 --> 00:53:31,916
Sharing the mother, dude.

848
00:53:31,936 --> 00:53:34,236
That feels like you've been on that journey.

849
00:53:34,256 --> 00:53:34,716
He's been there.

850
00:53:34,796 --> 00:53:35,336
A little bit.

851
00:53:35,336 --> 00:53:40,796
He has nine mothers in his cupboard right now at different stages of life.

852
00:53:40,796 --> 00:53:43,536
A sourdough starter, just assigned FBI agent.

853
00:53:43,696 --> 00:53:45,756
They're not people, just to be clear.

854
00:53:46,116 --> 00:53:49,556
One of his starters is sentient at this point.

855
00:53:49,996 --> 00:53:50,356
Eventually.

856
00:53:50,596 --> 00:53:50,896
Yeah, yeah.

857
00:53:50,996 --> 00:53:51,296
Eventually.

858
00:53:51,436 --> 00:53:52,416
It's been so long.

859
00:53:52,516 --> 00:53:53,336
It's achieved intelligence.

860
00:53:53,336 --> 00:53:55,296
That's the alien life we were talking about at the top of the show.

861
00:53:55,296 --> 00:53:56,356
My computer pinged.

862
00:53:56,396 --> 00:53:57,636
Actually, it was like, we found.

863
00:53:57,636 --> 00:54:00,816
And it was like, why is it a residential address?

864
00:54:01,416 --> 00:54:02,196
It didn't make any sense.

865
00:54:02,296 --> 00:54:03,236
Now I understand why.

866
00:54:03,756 --> 00:54:04,856
All right, Abe's.

867
00:54:04,916 --> 00:54:05,716
Amazing show.

868
00:54:05,856 --> 00:54:06,636
Be my Vanna White.

869
00:54:06,856 --> 00:54:07,576
Okay, yes.

870
00:54:07,936 --> 00:54:08,416
Here we go.

871
00:54:09,056 --> 00:54:12,016
All right, Satillionaires, if you have enjoyed today's show,

872
00:54:12,216 --> 00:54:16,876
click the subscribe at your chance to win this collectible silver coin.

873
00:54:17,216 --> 00:54:20,016
With how many Satoshis on the back, Abe's?

874
00:54:20,036 --> 00:54:21,576
50,000 Satoshis on the other side.

875
00:54:21,576 --> 00:54:22,436
50,000.

876
00:54:22,796 --> 00:54:23,416
Come on, y'all.

877
00:54:23,436 --> 00:54:25,076
And Satoshi on the front.

878
00:54:25,536 --> 00:54:26,636
Yeah, that's not bad.

879
00:54:26,636 --> 00:54:30,056
He's got his little hooded moment there, right?

880
00:54:30,216 --> 00:54:32,056
He's doing his thing.

881
00:54:32,476 --> 00:54:34,056
I don't know why he's always wearing a hood.

882
00:54:34,236 --> 00:54:35,136
Yeah, I don't really either.

883
00:54:35,196 --> 00:54:35,676
Because he's anonymous.

884
00:54:35,856 --> 00:54:39,096
It feels very like V for Vendetta is what I think about constantly.

885
00:54:39,316 --> 00:54:39,436
Yeah.

886
00:54:39,636 --> 00:54:43,076
Anyway, you'll be entered to win when we get to 3,000 subscribers.

887
00:54:43,536 --> 00:54:47,876
We're keeping our giveaway of 2 million sats when we get to 10,000,

888
00:54:47,996 --> 00:54:49,576
but we'll have some giveaways in between.

889
00:54:49,816 --> 00:54:52,276
We got some baby giveaways before the big giveaway.

890
00:54:52,436 --> 00:54:52,896
Yeah, a little.

891
00:54:53,296 --> 00:54:54,716
We're building up to.

892
00:54:54,836 --> 00:54:55,596
Like amuse-bouche.

893
00:54:55,596 --> 00:54:57,356
A little amuse-y-bouche.

894
00:54:57,536 --> 00:54:58,296
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

895
00:54:58,696 --> 00:55:02,136
All right, so if you would like to find out ways to support the show,

896
00:55:02,256 --> 00:55:05,036
you can either grab your slot in the studio or sponsor.

897
00:55:05,416 --> 00:55:06,576
You can do so in our show notes,

898
00:55:06,676 --> 00:55:09,716
or you can go to our brand-new redesigned website.

899
00:55:09,816 --> 00:55:10,516
Looking hot.

900
00:55:10,636 --> 00:55:11,496
Looks so good.

901
00:55:11,616 --> 00:55:12,456
Mad minimal.

902
00:55:12,776 --> 00:55:13,516
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

903
00:55:13,536 --> 00:55:17,096
We've incorporated the new blue color, which looks so good.

904
00:55:17,296 --> 00:55:17,976
Shout out, AB.

905
00:55:18,776 --> 00:55:19,916
Thank you, thank you.

906
00:55:19,916 --> 00:55:22,436
and if you

907
00:55:22,436 --> 00:55:24,736
yeah

908
00:55:24,736 --> 00:55:26,616
Sat Chats is for educational purposes only

909
00:55:26,616 --> 00:55:28,976
and shouldn't I be construed as financial advice

910
00:55:28,976 --> 00:55:30,596
and our guest views are their own

911
00:55:30,596 --> 00:55:31,936
jumped right into that groove

912
00:55:31,936 --> 00:55:33,696
yeah yeah I got a little distracted

913
00:55:33,696 --> 00:55:34,876
with the stuff

914
00:55:34,876 --> 00:55:37,576
anyway until next time

915
00:55:37,576 --> 00:55:39,216
keep stacking those sats

916
00:55:39,216 --> 00:55:41,936
yes and learn more about privacy

917
00:55:41,936 --> 00:55:42,876
god

918
00:55:49,916 --> 00:55:50,916
Bye.