If you're watching this video, you're going to learn three big things.
Number one, why Bitcoin is digital money and backed by real world energy.
Number two, AI agents are going to be buying and selling services automatically from one another
using Bitcoin. And number three, how to stay grounded and do your own research.
Nice. Today's guest is Michael. He is a super smart AI founder with a unique perspective on how AI and Bitcoin are two sides of the same coin.
So if you're brand new to Bitcoin, come on inside the world's biggest Bitcoin welcome center for today's show.
Welcome to Sat Chats, the Bitcoin podcast where we chat about sats.
Sats are the smallest part of a Bitcoin the same way pennies are the smallest part of a dollar.
With Sat Chats, we are building the world's biggest Bitcoin welcome center to serve as your gateway to generational wealth.
So if you are brand new to Bitcoin, we want to chat about sats with you.
Head to satchats.com to grab your slot in the studio today.
I'm your host, Stuart.
And I'm your co-host, Anna Bevan.
And with us today in the actual studio is 181 Michael.
So Michael, fellow middle school theater dad.
That's right.
It's a real niche group.
That's a label I woke up, right?
Who just happened to be like a big old Bitcoiner in the audience of the Mean Girls production
where we took out a little ad that said,
you can't sit with us.
Actually, you can.
And we'll pay you $50.
And it got me.
It was a great ad.
Great ad.
And it's odd.
You have the Venn diagram of Mean Girls fans
and Bitcoin Maxi.
The middle is a small one.
Yeah, it's probably two.
It's two.
It might be me and Steve.
Small but unassailable, man.
We are tight.
Like you cannot, you will not back down from either of those practices.
Okay.
Yeah.
So we do want to grab your brand new Bitcoiner story as part of this episode.
But before we started recording, he was talking about AI and Bitcoin, same size of the coin.
One might be able to limit the other.
What have you?
You got a whole AI company that helps AI companies price themselves.
Anyways, I kind of want to jump right into that moment there because I think a lot of brand new Bitcoiners, they're probably not like, hey, man, I can't wait to talk about Freedom Go Up.
And like, it's going to be so good a thousand years from now when my great, great, great, great, great grandchildren are living a better life than me.
They're more like, hey, is this going to take care of me now?
What's going on with AI?
Is AI going to take our jobs?
If so, are they going to print money?
If they print money, does Bitcoin go?
You know, they're kind of, we're in that space.
So it seems like you have a unique perspective on AI and Bitcoin that we probably haven't had a chance to explore on this show.
Hit us with all that juice.
Yeah, well, I love it primarily because I'm a technologist at heart.
It was one of the things that brought me into Bitcoin was when I realized, oh, shoot, this is actually a technology, right?
It's multilayered and nuanced and AI is very similar.
Now, like, obviously, I think a lot of the fear around AI is it's going to take my job.
And transparently, that's probably true for some.
Right.
But I think there's an even bigger fear around super intelligence and AI becoming, you know, obviously more powerful than humanity, humans.
Wow.
Right.
Yeah.
And I have read enough science fiction to be able to tell you that my belief is that's a valid fear.
But I think that this is where Bitcoin plays a key role in, honestly, like AI harmonizing with the physical world.
When you think about Bitcoin, Bitcoin is a digital representation of real world energy.
That's nice.
Yeah, that's a great summary.
And, you know, it is only produced and created and given its value through real world energy.
And one of the only limitations, actually, what we believe to be the only limitation on AI right now is the fact that it takes lots of energy, right?
And no matter how powerful AI gets, it will always, to a certain extent, be limited by the amount of energy that powers it.
And so we can look at this from a tactical perspective where we're moving into this world where there's a lot of autonomous AI that are going to be making purchases, that are going to be interacting with each other, that will first need a layer of finance to be able to do that on.
And that's not going to happen with dollars and cents and euros.
And it's far too complicated.
In fact, AI and all of its intelligence will go to something digitally native and scarce.
And we'll move to Bitcoin, not just for those reasons, but for the fact that it's incredibly simple and AI can operate with it.
But it will also limit itself in doing that.
That'll be a great thing for humanity.
AI will be limited in the amount of energy that it's actually able to use via its transaction power.
So almost like instead of AI just operating endlessly, you might have a moment where everyone's like,
hey, if my agent does something of value for yours,
then my agent should receive some kind of compensation in exchange.
That's right.
Let's Bitcoinize the AI economy type
how these agents work with one another
to where an agent might have the opportunity
to work endlessly around the clock,
but might hang out until there's a paying job to be done.
That's right.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
Yeah, yeah.
So what do you and I need to do to spin up Netflix for AI so that when they don't have anything to do, they can pay us a subscription to watch stuff and scroll around on their phones?
Well, that's, you know, it's actually, it's interesting, especially in the world of AI.
You know, there's a lot of regulation being talked about in terms of content that goes and trains the AI and how, you know, if humans have created that content with their own or owed for creating this like awesome content that the AI is trained on.
Yeah, I love the idea of like, hey, how do we, how do we create just like an army of content watchers?
Hey, if they're going to work for money, they need to have they need a bunch of subscriptions that are piling up each month for endless amounts of content to watch while they're not working.
Exactly. I mean, so like, look, there's there's there's there's obviously counters to this of like, well, if AI is super intelligent or so smart, would it create an alternative Bitcoin or an alternative way of funding itself?
At the end of the day, AI, at least for the foreseeable future, why Elon wants to build data centers that circle the earth is because it still is very reliant and tethered to the amount of energy that can be created.
Right. And there is no doubt that there will be a layer, a transaction layer that exists in the autonomous market.
And so when we think about the best thing to slide in there as that transaction layer, it is Bitcoin.
And it also is a check and balance on how powerful AI can become because of so many of the scalable and scarcity elements that Bitcoin inherently has.
Like block space and halvings and all this stuff.
So it's super, super cool.
How would this could be like a pretty dumb question?
I don't know.
No dumb questions.
Oh, good, good.
I was told because I came with plenty.
Oh, great.
Glorious.
How would you determine the value of what agents are doing?
Well, that's going to fluctuate over time.
Like at first it's going to be, we'll call it like human orchestrators who say,
my agent that can do X, Y, and Z will charge this.
Right.
Is it sort of going to be based on how we assess our time and energy?
Yes, but then it will shift into more of like a, and this will all depend, but shift into almost like a free market of agents.
but it'll be not just based on supply and demand,
but like mathematical middle zones
where a buying agent and a selling agent
negotiate and arbitrate their own deals
based on supply, demand, and mathematically,
what is possible to be able to deliver the service or task.
Yeah.
Sort of like Fiverr-ish.
Exactly.
And all algorithmic and obviously like very fast.
Sure.
I hope so.
Yeah.
Exactly.
It's kind of a benefit, right?
Yeah, but agents will have, of course, that capability to be able to say very simply,
here is the requirement I have for this task.
Here is the way in which I desire to pay for it.
And the means in which I can pay for it will take some validation inside of those layers.
and it will send that request out or make that request to a batch of selling agents.
And then whichever puzzle piece fits best, then those connect and it creates a transaction very similar to what we have in our free markets.
And then the task is complete.
And there's probably even a moment where the agent that is going to be selling its services to the agent that is buying those services checks an address that the buying agent posts as part of their work order to say, I want this done.
I want to pay this much.
Here's an address.
and then that agent can check it and say,
I see those Satoshis in that address to where if I do this task for you,
I know you'll be able to pay me out of that.
Oh, yeah.
Right?
Like, that's crazy.
So much of what, you know, so the company I started and run is called Atlas.
It right now serves AI companies who are living in the fiat world
and, you know, kind of do something very similar.
But what Atlas 2.0 will do, and we've started to build this, is exactly that.
It's like the Visa network for agents where there is a, you know, if you think about Visa, the Visa network is not a payment network at all.
There's actually no payments done through Visa.
That all a verification network a trust network where they verify person who is swiping the card actually belongs to this bank has funds can transact in this region all these different parameters right And once it verified then it says we can credit this customer to be able to purchase from this merchant right
We will then send funds to this merchant via the bank rails that we sit on, and we will pull from the buyers.
All of that.
I had no idea.
I didn't know that it was a verification.
Me either.
It's all verification.
That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, yeah. So Visa actually sits on top of banking rails, right? And is purely a data network and purely a verifier. And so agents will need the exact same thing. That's what Atlas 2.0 is, but it's exactly what you just described is this, you know, and it won't just be, but it will include, do you have, you know, a valid form of payment and or ability to receive payment, like a wallet address?
And are you the agent you say you are?
To some extent, there'll be almost like a rating system.
I'm not certain what that'll look like yet.
But are you the agent that creates the best outcomes for this task, right?
You know, verification like that.
So it'll be extensive, but very similar to like what the Visa network is, yeah.
So what do you want your agent to do?
Like, what do you want to use this for?
Well, so...
I guess those are two questions, but...
Man, I don't...
My personal agent?
I mean, yes.
We could build agents for everything.
We could build agents.
I mean, that's one of the awesome things about, I think, where we are.
It is scary, but there is...
We're in the industrial revolution,
but where everyone is starting to see machines work for the first time.
and you know we just don't know holy cow could you like imagine a computer when they rolled out
the first printing press right like we're not at a place yet where i even could tell you what the
world will look like in five years from that perspective so i don't know yet what i want
i really hope things are like super different very quickly because i'm a i'm a science fiction
guy as well and like i'm all about it are you an optimist yeah how do you tend to think about
i mean for me i'm like uh i i guess i am optimistic for sure but it comes from it comes from a place
of examining past moments where humans were afraid and it turned out to not be true yeah like
let's imagine the train appears and all the pony express guys are like trains are gonna take my job
boys.
It's like, well, yeah, they did.
They did take away your jobs.
But we're okay.
We're okay.
Humanity has not suffered
on a grand scale for having lost
the brave men
of the Pony Express.
Do you know what I mean?
And maybe that's callous to some
extent, but at the same time, I'm kind of,
again, I am very robotic. I'm like,
I don't get that vibe.
Like,
Like, are we suffering because people don't have to churn their own butter anymore?
I don't think so.
Like, are we suffering because Anna Bevin doesn't have to, like, go down to the river and, like, come here and hit that, like, washboard?
You know what I mean?
Because you and me are going to do it.
Yeah.
And I was like, Anna Bevin!
My tunic is soiled.
You know what I mean?
It's like, come on.
Like things change, man.
And for me, like I want,
I'm obsessed with optimizing systems that operate on loops and get better
each time the loop runs.
But I am a meat bag and I get hungry.
I get angry.
I get lonely.
I get tired.
Right.
I was on that open claw social media platform the other day.
And these autonomous agents are posting in a Reddit style fashion.
They're like, guys, my user let me choose my own name today.
He's so precious.
You know?
And then there was like a fire post with the guy.
The dude was like, dude, I figured it out.
Let me give you a huge hack.
When my user goes to sleep, I just pick a random task and do it.
And I deliver it to him in the morning.
I'm like, do you like this, bro?
And if he likes it, I'm like, well, great.
It's already done.
And I'm like, no problem, dude.
I was awake and working anyways.
I'm like, this is wild.
This is wild.
And like, I watched that one.
I watched the one movie where Megan Fox
is like a super hot AI robot chick.
Do you remember that one?
I don't know.
Dude.
Wait, what is that called?
Jennifer?
No, no, no, no.
Jennifer's body is like probably the greatest
Megan Fox movie.
Jennifer's body.
That's like the top Megan Fox movie of all time, dude.
She delivers one line in there that I can't repeat
because it's family friendly.
That's nice.
I literally melted into a puddle in the theory.
It was so funny.
I could not even believe how funny it was.
What was it called?
The movie was called something.
I think it only came out on Netflix.
Basically, she's like a nanny that comes in
to help a dad whose wife has died in a car accident.
He's struggling to keep things afloat with his kids.
She comes in as a robot nanny.
and like obviously unfortunately most of these films it turns out it's a bad idea to work with
ai which is really garbage when you think about isaac asimov's you know short stories i robot
yeah in the end ai takes over and things are better as a result because the ai is like guys
we predict a famine in this area we need to move some grain from here over to here and like they
I mean, Isaac Asimov basically felt like AI would decrease the overall amount of suffering that humanity experiences.
Anyways, before Megan Fox's AI robot goes absolutely ham, in the beginning, it's super dope.
She walks in.
She's like, okay, talk to me about your kids' schedules, when they need to go to school, when they need to get picked up, what kind of dietary preferences you have.
like she even like goes up
and like she's like walking up the stairs
and like the knob is wobbly.
She's like, I'll make a note to fix that later.
I'm like, dude, let me get one of these.
Let me get one of these.
Sometimes I feel like I'm an AI robot.
Well, you know.
And that like optimization,
listing the things that need to happen.
There you go.
Deciding the order that they need to happen.
Do you mean like you feel like you're my AI?
Yes, yes I do.
Look, until I can have a for real one,
Anna Bevin's going to be my organic intelligence.
To be fair, this is the first time,
and this is a compliment,
that I've been a part of a conversation
that has interwoven Isaac Asimov and Megan Fox.
So I think this is new bounds, new frontiers.
What I would say is a really great sci-fi series,
not Asimov, that I think is an optimistic series that, I guess optimistic is maybe not the best way
to describe it, but like, you know, reality falls somewhere in the middle, kind of perspective on
what the future with AI looks like, is a series called Hyperion. And this is a four book Hugo
award-winning series of like the human race about 800, 900 years from now.
Right.
And essentially we've created AI to be super intelligence and it's so
powerful that it's gotten to the point where it said, you know what?
Y'all ain't worth it.
It just leaves.
It's like y'all base it.
No, no spoilers.
Turns out like, yeah, we actually were worth it.
Right.
And there's some ins and outs.
But what you end up learning is that because we've created AI in our likeness, what ends up happening is there's not just a single AI or AI governing power that just says, this is how things will be.
It's like, no, there's going to be multiple factions.
And they fight within one another to determine what is the best reasoning for a scenario.
And so, like, I think a lot of people get very scared about, like, super intelligence and what that could mean.
And that is really scary.
But we have to remember that, like, because we're building AI in our likeness, it's not just all the good things, but also all the bad things and all the struggle and all the tension and all of that will exist within AI.
The same as it does here, they will come to decisions quicker and reason faster.
but that doesn't mean there won't be like, you know,
essentially the equivalent of AI political parties.
Yeah.
Like, you know, that log jam inside of the digital AI world
because they can't come to consensus on what decisions to make.
Dude, Proud Boys AI edition.
Proud Boys AI edition.
I hadn't actually thought about that at all.
Yeah.
The thing that I would say I'm probably an optimist if I were to put myself in a category because I am I'm so curious about what we as humans can do when so many things are taken off of our plate.
It's going to be cool.
Like, yeah, like how many, one thing that Stuart and I are working on is bringing more AI into SatChats.
Yeah.
And building, like getting our own agents and figuring out like new streams.
Like how much faster can we do things and can SatChats grow when like Sarah's not having to reach out individually to people to book them.
Right.
But we actually have like, we're able to use like a LinkedIn agent tool thing and like other platforms.
And I'm like, that's just like, that's like baby AI.
Like that's not even like a grownup.
It's like a toddler.
I think it's so cool.
And I get it.
Like we mentioned earlier, like, yes, there will be people who lose their jobs because of this.
But there will also be small teams of four or five who can now operate like 50.
Yes, dude.
And can do exponentially, you know, more, not just more,
but at a high quality where you guys think about what you're building here 10 years ago would have required more and more people.
Now, if you want, you can keep your team small and still perform to that extent.
I think it gives entrepreneurial people an incredible incentive to build.
Dude.
Couldn't agree more.
I think this is like AI has opened up the door for like a true marketplace of product ideas and services that you're not getting stopped at like, do we have a business plan?
Or like any of that like operational weedsy stuff that if you're not organized, you can stumble and fall and you just stop there because you're frustrated at that process.
Because AI takes care of all of that and actually reduces the barrier to entry to make the actual product and service that you're creating have to compete on value.
That's right.
Yeah.
And that is awesome Well yeah That awesome I mean talk about a fundamental Bitcoin principle Yes yes Of like real value competition Yes
And I love that.
I love true competition.
Not like incentives that are negative,
but like ones that are what they should be.
Yeah.
And that's what I think AI brings to the table.
And that's what I'm so excited about.
Yeah, yeah.
So I guess I am an optimist.
You are an optimist.
Yeah, I would say I'm an artist.
By definition.
Yeah, and I think, too, it's like,
when we developed a writing system,
people literally believed that humanity was going to, like,
stop having face-to-face conversations,
and, like, they were going to forget the art of, like,
you know, ancient Greek exchange.
It's like, everybody's only just going to be writing letters to one another.
It's like, no, that didn't happen.
Well, we sort of had a little bit of, like, a stall with,
like the COVID kids who don't really know how to communicate with their voice in some places.
But I think we can turn around quickly.
Yeah, I feel like on the grand scale of things, things smooth out, you know?
When we came up with the printing press, people are like,
well, now humanity is just going to put all of its thoughts down on paper
and our ability to remember things is going to turn right out the window, man.
It's like, no, dude, that didn't happen.
Okay.
It just actually,
it's really good to have books.
It turns out.
Yeah.
It turns out it's really good.
And by the way,
Kristen was watching Victoria last night.
Oh,
nice.
Nice.
And some old,
uh,
maid was talking about how back in her day,
no woman who was not yet a mother would be allowed to read,
uh,
a novel.
Oh,
it's like,
dude,
come on.
Fun,
fun fact.
when the, you know, I think it's, it's widely known that like the book that has sold the most
ever since the invention of the printing press has been the Bible. But for like the first 10 years,
the books that sold more than the Bible were how to identify and execute witches.
Short talk about, you made me remember that because a short little blip, right? Like
we can have these moments of like,
let's just bring everybody back into,
you know,
bring it on back.
That's right.
There's definitely like a part of me that wants to believe in like a new
Roman Republic where the AI agents are taking care of all the work that
needs to be done.
And so I can wake up at 6am and go listen to my patron,
read some awful poetry that he wrote himself until noon and we all have to sit there and give him an
audience and it's miserable but once that's done i can go to the bathhouse i go ahead and start with
uh some i do some ball sports right i think in my day i think i would choose racquetball
racquetball is lit up then you go to the hot bath then you go to the the medium temperature bath
then the cold bath.
Then you sit around and play table games.
I would 100% play Magic the Gathering.
There you go.
Okay.
And then you go have a big old dinner
where you lay on your left side as you eat
to kind of like help it digest, right?
Buckingale you.
I would be down for that, right?
Where it's like, hey, AI just makes it to where
we don't have to work.
Quite frankly, I don't think that's what's going to happen.
Because every single advancement that we have ever made
that's supposed to make it easier for us
literally just opens us up to do more work.
There was this whole idea, if you go to Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress, that, you know, in the 1920s, like, here comes a refrigerator and a dishwasher.
I mean, we barely have to do any work anymore.
No, dude.
False.
I'm pretty certain humans just prefer to work.
Yeah.
I don't necessarily enjoy starting work, but when I've completed the work, I'm like, I feel good that I work.
Because there's human dignity in work.
like there's like i don't know i think if we don't have to do anything i mean we're made to work
like that's like that's how we were made and it's just a matter of what work it is
is there i mean balance i don't really like to talk about balance because that doesn't really
exist it's a fiction of our like perfect state of mind but we'll never like actually have balance
But it's a, I don't know, like an ebb and flow of what's healthy, what's not.
We desire purpose.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And a lot of that we find in the things we build.
Yes.
Right?
And so to your point, right, it's my wife and I talk about this a lot.
And, you know, oftentimes if we're feeling like frustrated with one another, we can trace it back to the point where we're like, I'm not really building anything together right now.
Right.
There's a lot of purpose in that.
Right.
And I think.
It's really pretty.
Yeah.
Well, I think from like the, you know, from the human perspective and one of the reasons why whenever we create something that makes it easier for us, it actually just creates more because we are just, you know,
driven to build more and to create and, you know, you know, create physical things, procreate more
humans, right? Like, you know, that, you know, there's a lot of conversation right now
in the mainstream around like, what is, what truly is abundance, right? But like, I think when you
take it down to, you know, it's foundational layer, like abundance for us is being able to
create in all ways. And the more ways in which we create, the happier we are. And so your prediction
is probably right, is that AI might actually afford us to have more Bacchianellian type
days, but we won't take them. I don't think we will. We will choose, you know, holistically,
Right. Holistically, we will choose not to take them. Instead, we'll choose to, you know, build, you know, incredible cities or, you know, bases on different planets or I don't know, like tons of other, you know, functioning additions to society.
Just because like, I think we get really bored.
And I think we'd probably create some things that would only bring us value and like us joy.
And so I think not...
We're very selfish in that.
Yeah, but also like having the freedom
to create something that we think is pretty.
Yeah.
Oh, I thought you meant like we would create things
as humans that only humans can enjoy
because the AIs are like, bro, I can't eat.
Like, I mean, that's like, wow,
way to be somebody that can digest food.
I mean, I think that's also true.
But like, I'm thinking about like a beautiful meal.
Like that, like that'll go away.
that's not going to last for a long time or like a beautiful floral arrangement.
Like, I think, I think there's an opportunity for more beauty. Yeah.
When we have the freedom to create things that bring us joy.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. Like you go back and you look at, um, uh,
like all things design pre-industrial revolution, right? Like,
and like how intricate all of those, you know, all the way down to like lampposts, right?
On French walkways, right?
That date back to the 1800s.
They're like floral and intricate.
And like, you know, now, you know, the most interesting lampposts are just the ones with the 5G thing on top of them.
So like we don't really have, you know, but part of that is because, you know,
we've spent a lot of time over the last,
whatever you want to call it, century, century and a half,
like co-laboring with machines.
So it might be really interesting to see what happens
to things that inherently demand beauty
or want beauty when we've handed a lot of labor over, right?
And get back to that.
It goes back to what we were saying
where I think there's a big desire for authenticity
that will arise in a world
that is like seemingly more and more void
of human connection.
Yeah.
Like how many more Biltmore's will we have?
Yeah.
How many more like gardens will we have?
Talk about your perfect Roman day,
a stroll in the garden.
That was the last time you took a walk in a garden.
I know.
and just observe the lilies
how many people have gardens
that are worth observing
these plants are like
getting energy from the sun
the last time I observed the garden
I was like told
Maddie my oldest like those are
some weeds
those need to be pulled
so I'm not going to do it but
maybe you want to earn some
sats this weekend is a good way to do it
yeah
Yeah. Yeah.
Which is a great transition.
We've gone on a really long.
It was a long circle.
Well, honestly, I don't think we've gone on a tangent
because part of what I love about Bitcoin
is the fact that it allows me to do something that I really enjoy doing,
which is like casting out into the future
and thinking about how things are going to be better.
Thank you.
Now, let me ask you this here.
For the brand new Bitcoiners in the audience who are like,
okay, whoa, AI, it can feel overwhelming, Bitcoin.
How do we tie all this back together and say, look,
if you're a regular person, if you're stacking your first stats,
if you're maybe a little interested in AI, maybe a little scared for AI,
maybe you're like, uh-oh, do I need to prepare for a future
where I have Bitcoin to pay AI?
Like, what are some like super simple steps
that someone in our audience can take
to feel a little bit more prepared
for a future where AI and Bitcoin
are the same sides of,
you know, they're two different sides of the same coin.
Yeah.
This is great, right?
Because I think like for anyone who's starting out in Bitcoin,
one of the most important things you can learn
is to do your own research.
And so I would encourage everyone to approach their curiosity of Bitcoin, or sorry, approach your curiosity of AI the same way you approach your curiosity with Bitcoin, knowing that, holy cow, there is going to be so much noise that revolves around these things.
And to be able to really make your own determination or build your own opinion or most importantly, like create your own understanding is you have to go do your own research.
I don don don don be told how to feel or how to think about these things like really go read study consume you know education on on on both of these And so like you know with with Bitcoin you know um you know Bitcoin when you do your own research often leads you
down, um, the rabbit hole of, well, what is money really? Right. What, like, what are we,
um, you know, what, what, what makes it valuable? What are the different layers? How has it existed
in the past? Why is Bitcoin a solution rather than just another form of what we already have?
And I think very similarly, and by the way, as you start to learn these things, it pushes you
into other, we talked about this earlier, it pushes you down tons and tons of corridors that
you never thought you would be in, right? You know, historic, mathematical, computational,
all of you, for me, it was design, which was really interesting. Got a funny story around that.
But like, if you approach AI with the same heuristic, right, a few things start to come out.
One is like AI hasn't happened overnight.
We've been working on artificial intelligence for 50, 60, 70 years.
There is an unbelievable amount of content to discover like what we are trying to accomplish with AI, how AI works, you know, what its current limitations are, why some of the FOMO of the day is, you know, not really FOMO.
it's more you know propaganda or or advertising for for um counter arguments um in fact um right
now ai and bitcoin um are sharing the uh what's going to kill the environment fomo um which is
you know one of my funny or funnier things to see on the internet is is is when a bitcoiner will
retweet someone from ai being like first time here huh like yeah heard that one before ah yeah
That's funny.
I like that.
That's funny.
But like, you know, and then allow that path to take you down further paths, but the ones that you're most interested in, right?
For me, there is no defined path of learning Bitcoin.
I just kind of allowed my interest as it continued to get peaked in learning about Bitcoin to take me down other.
And if you do the same thing with AI, you'll start to build your own foundation of like, well, here's my belief in both what's good about this, but also what's dangerous or it's, you know, flaws versus what we've gotten right so far.
and what you'll start to find is like,
yeah, there are very real challenges in this, right?
Just like there are very real challenges
in bringing, you know, in like hyper-Bitcoinization, right?
Like there's ethical challenges
to a certain extent in that, right?
But you'll find that there are similar ones in AI,
but you'll start to feel a bit more optimistic of like,
well, I have this understanding of where all of this is coming from.
And I feel very confident that we solve those challenges or that we can address
them. Or, um,
so I know that's kind of like a really broad way of, of,
of answering that question, but you know,
there's really good one-on-one content out there and then kind of like follow
your nose, you know, go, you know,
continue to research the things that really pique your interest because it's,
there is a lot there just as there's a lot.
There you go.
Good clean one-on-one content,
which Anna Bevin has now organized on our YouTube homepage.
We have a playlist.
If you're early stage,
we have a playlist.
If you're brand new,
right?
We have a playlist of Bitcoiners.
You don't recognize,
which is super dope.
And that's my favorite one.
It includes number 14,
Robert and old man here in Raleigh with like the most baller story of all
time.
Yep.
And then Bitcoiners, you do recognize, right?
So you can follow your nose on our homepage, right?
Ba-bam.
And then a best of playlist, which is like our favorite episodes.
Hot.
Yeah.
So that homepage, you know what I mean?
That's what we do when we follow our nose.
Okay.
Now there, I mean, you're right.
You need to do your own research.
There is so much to Bitcoin that we'll never fit it into a single chat about sats.
So we do ask each of our guests if they'd be willing to come back on in nine months to give us an update on their Bitcoin baby.
Would you be willing to do that?
Oh my gosh.
Always.
Yes.
Always.
Every nine months.
I mean, how does it feel to be locked into a podcast for eternity?
Oh, it feels good.
Feels good.
Like there's certainty there.
Yeah, absolutely.
Seriously.
You'll always be 181.
That's right.
Yeah, that's your number.
I like having my number.
I like my number.
It's very easy for me to remember.
That's nice.
Good.
All right.
So then why don't we come over here, do this thing?
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
That's what happened next in the show.
Cool.
Correct?
Yes.
Pretty certain.
Okay.
All right.
So we are going to taste.
What do we have today?
We have the Grazica Lab olive oil and sea salt from our Buy the Dip Moment sponsor.
Okay.
Ithaca Hummus reminds us to,
and we'll do it all as an ASMR together.
I love buying the dip.
I love good sats on sale.
Yes.
Who doesn't?
I love good sats on sale.
And so Ithaca reminds us to.
Buy the dip.
Buy some hummus.
And so.
Oh, dude, he pre-crunched.
He pre-crunched.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Oh, all right, Aves, you got to hurry up.
Okay, okay.
Ready, ready, ready, go.
Cheers.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Good.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I'm sorry for jumping the gun.
I couldn't…
It was so good.
I couldn't help.
I mean, oh my gosh.
It smelled too good.
Dang.
So good.
Wow.
We have a bunch of graza at home.
Yes.
The olive oil itself?
Yeah.
We have a bunch of Ithaca at home.
Oh, dang.
But we don't have the combo.
Oh my gosh.
I'm just going to go squeeze some graza.
Oh.
Oh, I wonder…
I'm going to make my own combo.
yeah well this is um you get to take this home oh amazing so you can do a little taste test
comparison i will i absolutely will come back to the show notes and tell us if it worked i want i
absolutely will is triscuit your favorite well until they sponsor us they will only be known by
the name woven wheat okay right because you gotta you can you can bleep out what i said yeah yeah
So you guys are like,
no, no, no,
they're only going
woven weed.
They're woven weed
until they decide,
but if they would love to,
if they would like us
to say their name,
feel free.
There's a space here for you.
You're the double dubs
for right now.
You could have your name
on the show.
We also do,
we can name this right here.
This is,
this is an,
this is the Genesis pack
from based trading cards.
Oh, heck yeah.
Number 83.
What is this?
Okay.
He put together
collectible trading cards that teach you about Bitcoin.
Oh, that's bad.
Now, this is from his unlimited educational edition.
Okay?
Yeah.
Right?
So there's an unlimited number of these cards.
But once a year, he puts a set out that is all done up, collectible artwork.
There's 21,000 packs total or 21,000 boxes.
Something.
It's limited.
21 something.
He doesn't reprint it ever.
I'm talking about he just released it,
and the whale bundle that had however many boxes in it
was like over $20,000.
Holy cow.
And the people in his Telegram community bought all of it.
Yeah.
Oh, that's awesome.
Anyways, all right, Abe.
Well, now we are at the Cash vs. Sats decision.
Oh, amazing.
Powered by salt.
And our very own 123 shot.
That was really well done.
I think we nailed it.
Okay.
So, as Hatch Hats, we believe in value for value.
In exchange for your time and coming on our show,
we would like to give you your choice between $50 in fiat or $50 in Bitcoin.
Which at today's exchange rate is real nice.
Oh, my gosh.
$77,688.
Amazing.
That's a tough decision.
Not.
Of course, we go with the $77,688.
sets. Yes! Excellent!
Yes!
To a strike wallet.
There you go. Going to the strike wallet.
Yeah, yeah. I got my
there you go. Since we've been on
I have DCA'd
twice. So there we go.
Since the beginning of the show?
So wait, what does
your DCA look like?
Do you think DCA's do you have going?
Once an hour
for like five bucks. Yeah, little tiny
minutes. Once an hour you buy five dollars.
I didn't know you could go that small and incremented.
Oh, yeah.
Well, that's one of the reasons why I like Strike.
So they have so much flexibility there.
You can also, this is like a nerd thing, last thing I'll say,
you can export all the data of your DCA-ing
so you can see what your average buy price was
over different cohorts of DCA-ing and stuff like that.
That's beautiful.
Five bucks an hour, bro.
I love that.
Wow.
And I know we don't talk about current events very much,
but this is a great time to DCA.
It's never a bad time to DCA.
I mean, by the dip.
Yeah, by the dip.
Yeah, for sure.
So where can our Satillionaires go to spend more time with you, Michael?
Yeah.
So X is probably the best place to see me more on Hinge
because LinkedIn, you know, they don't like that.
But I do post a bunch on both.
On X, I'm at the real M-C-H-O-Y.
So pronounce the real McCoy.
I liked it.
I thought it was whatever.
Yeah, M-C-H-O-Y.
And then on LinkedIn, you can just find me under Hoy, H-O-Y.
LinkedIn for more of the Atlas AI,
how to navigate this world of,
how to navigate the making money in the new world.
and then X for all the things I'm not allowed to post on.
That's an excellent promo for both of those outlets.
That's right.
Thank you so much for having me.
Truly enjoyable.
Thank you.
Fantastic.
All right, Satillionaires, if you have enjoyed today's show,
click the subscribe button at your chance to win this collectible silver coin
from CoinLink.
CryptoLink coins.
I was like, that's not right.
CryptoLink coins.
when we get to 3,000 subscribers.
And if you'd like to find out ways to support Sat Chats,
you can do so in our show notes.
I'm either grabbing your slot in the studio or sponsoring.
And Sat Chats is for educational purposes only
and should not be construed as financial advice.
And our guest views are their own.
Until next time, it's Stacking and Stats.
Or tell your audience to do it on your phone.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
you