live from
black lab in
austin texas
this is
stacker news
live
hello ladies
gentlemen
welcome back to
the next
episode of
stacker news
live
my name is
carven
we have
kiyan
hi
what was your week it's great uh i ate turkey i liked it it was good um also do you do you wash
your sweaters with on cold because i feel like your sweat i have a black sweater and mine is
way more muted than yours i feel like this is a trick question it's not a trick question i'm
trying just wondering why your why your black sweater is still black and mine is like it looks
It's like leaving.
Who washes your clothes?
Leaving the earth.
I wash my clothes.
Oh.
I wash them hot.
I wash everything hot.
I don't really wash my clothes.
You don't wash your clothes?
I mean, I wash my clothes, but I pay somebody to do it.
Oh, really?
You take it to a dry cleaner?
Mm-hmm.
Or take it to this place.
They do a pickup.
Okay.
you take it to like you take it to an auntie and they pick it up what place do you they pick it up
and then they wash them they bring it back from you back folded and stuff oh dude that's bougie
right it's not i've used services like that before it's bougie no it's not it's like 30 bucks a pop
for a bag no it's not how much do you pay i don't want to talk about it it's not god dude every
everybody everybody does it who lives a busy life like oh really oh yeah i think i heard of like
uh yeah elon musk doing that and no i think if you i think if you live a busy life i mean i think
that's normal yeah steve jobs i think did it just i'm not i'm not saying i think the billionaires
do you're right yeah the bill no i'm saying like it's not as much as you think it's like literally
i've used them before i'll do it like once i do like once a month if you have a lot of clothes
i guess but yeah but my experience with them it's like 30 dollars but i also don't have like a
washer and dryer so oh i see yeah i don't have a washer dryer or like they're complex to us so
it's probably going to cost roughly it's probably the same amount if you do like a washer and dryer
plus yeah yeah i know you're right that's why yeah i believe yeah poor people use those services too
not just you bougie guys how are you uh how was your thanksgiving well that explains why you're
why your color is maintained because you have a professional there um my thanksgiving was was good
We went out to a restaurant.
I've never eaten at a restaurant on Thanksgiving.
Oh, cool.
And so my wife is like, well, reserve the place because her family was in town.
And so.
Oh, was it nice?
It was nice.
We went to this place called Neato, which is at the Lauren Hotel, which is like on Barton's,
like right over on Barton Springs and Riverside.
And yeah, we got a view of the river or the lake, whatever you want to call it.
and um yeah and there was like a fixed menu so you didn't get to choose your food which was great
and having that indecision period and then yeah just kind of chilled that's cool yeah it was great
how about yours how was your that was great we uh went to my cousins we were barbecuing
catching up and barbecued some ribs some fajitas uh we didn't do a turkey after all but we did a
we did a ham it was fun a little fun do you ever get tired of ham i don't even like it i don't know
how you like ham that much um do you like ham that much i think it's because i only eat it once a year
okay around thanksgiving that's why you're not a big like ham sandwich guy yeah okay i'm not a big
sandwich guy just in general yeah let's say you're a taco guy more of a taco guy but no it was great
had a really good time um yeah i had a really good time it was fun so it was a blast it was a blast
and then we watched the cowboys they finally won cowboys won which was crazy they didn't lose at
the end like i thought they were gonna lose so that was that was it was a very good game but
they usually like screw it up at the very end and they didn't screw it up i was like we're all wild
like when are they gonna screw this up and they didn't screw it up and they pulled off the victory
And then tonight, UT's playing A&M, so that's going to be a really good one, too.
Okay.
There was a lot of football yesterday.
Yeah, it's a football time of year.
Yeah.
That's really what's going on in the world right now.
Yeah.
Cool.
If you've never seen this crazy show before, it's called Stacker News Live.
We cover...
Oh, I didn't even ask you about this.
We need to...
I didn't ask you about your top stories.
Ah.
Meta.
Okay.
I guess we'll figure it out on the fly.
I guess so.
If you've ever seen this crazy show before, it's called Stacker News Live.
We cover all the top stories every week here on Stacker.News.
Check out our YouTube page.
There's a lot of videos.
Last week's super spicy story was, most viewed story was this one,
the Marc Andreessen avatar one.
Apparently everybody liked that one.
Yeah, people, yeah.
That one and then the France attacks on graphing was another one that was popular.
Yeah.
I like how we let stackers in on YouTube growth strategies.
That's kind of what we're telling.
We're like, hey, look at our best performing videos.
Look at that.
Check out our keywords.
Check out our...
These are posts that the stackers...
Thumbnail.
These are literally the posts that the stackers have on stacker.news.
All we're doing is just talking about them.
I know, but it's kind of like we can kind of see, or at least when we go over these, it feels like to me I'm learning a little bit about YouTube's algorithm, what people are looking for in videos.
Because a lot of it, as we've discussed before, as long as the video has nothing to do with Bitcoin, it performs pretty well.
But the moment we start mentioning Bitcoin, they kind of just take a dump.
I mean, I feel like this year has been very bad for Bitcoin,
just as far as the narrative and then everybody, like, yeah.
We look at even the gold and silver one, which is a great story.
That one didn't do anything.
And it doesn't have to do anything with Bitcoin,
but it's not like, you know,
it has to do with someone who understands monetary policy.
I mean, I told you this like two years ago on the show.
like once etf came through that was the end of bitcoin i even said it i called it here on the
show go back and i say this all the time i don't i never bring it up anymore because it's like
so it's a broken record at this point that was the end of it i don't mean like the end of it i mean
like it's the end of um i'm just grabbing everybody's attention it just i feel like the
etf just came in the room and just ate everything up suck the air out i mean we're going to talk
about something later on about the etf which is big news um but um is that one of your top stories
yeah one of my top stories but like that's what i'm saying like i feel like the etf just came in
and took over took over bitcoin and you're kind of seeing it i mean definitely brought in the suits
i feel like the suits are the kings now of bitcoin it became like a kind of a developer
techie kind of focused culture and instead it became like a suit i mean also too it's like
like i mean i see bitcoin as in like three different areas now it's like it's like the
cypherpunks um working on all the stuff that's like you know the cool bitcoin lightning stuff
and then i see the nostril ecosystem which is doing its nostril stuff but it's still so early
there and then i see like the etf and the financial bros like and that's those are the
three segments that i see okay yeah those i mean i could think that's that that is three distinct
groups that's what i see in bitcoin right now i don't see anything else besides those three and
and to be honest like there's not a lot of movement in those three segments right now i mean maybe the
nostril thing a little bit but that is so small and no one's talking about it besides the people
on nostril and then on the ets side everybody's talking about that but it's all the treasury stuff
and and then when you look at the cypherpunk stuff like that's all the stuff that we're into
here at pleb lab but that doesn't get any attention or no one cares about it because it's like so small
it's so niche so it's just going to show up on like on stacker.news and and it won't it's not
going to make any podcasts no one's going to care about it on youtube you know what i mean
so yeah yeah that's kind of how i see it yeah so i think i would not partition out no stir from
the cypherpunks i would say like just the there's a general tech builder class type of section of
bitcoin then there's like the etf part but there's like a self-sovereignty bitcoiny thing
tech people is not etf i know i know but it's like i would include you know they consider
themselves part of bitcoin because they a lot of them are bitcoiners and i think it makes sense to
kind of group them in there but the third group i would categorize more as like i don't know like
pre-bitcoiners or like you know like a plebs trying to figure out am i in the am i going to
going the etf track or am i gonna go and uh and like the tech the more the more hands-on track
and i yeah that's the that's the way i would partition them but i mean that's yeah i also
haven't thought about that much but i mean i think about it all the time but there's usually don't
talk about it because it upsets people when i say these things sorry in advance if you heard that
people get upset at everything so i mean you'll be like i can't believe car said nostri's not
bitcoin like yeah i did sorry well i think even fiat job would agree with you so it's just not
it's just not like i remember like bitcoin lightning is like freaking amazing stuff
it's just that nostril is just not bitcoin i mean eventually hopefully like bitcoin will eat a lot
of nostril and lightning and everything and uh we'll have like this kind of like what justin's
doing where like he's putting a lot of the lightning stuff into nostril and eventually
it'll just be lightning and it'll just you know leverage a little bit of what nostril has in its
stack and i don't know man we'll see anyways if you never see this crazy show we're gonna do the
top three right now on stacker news the number three is this what you have for the number three
uh yeah that should be it all right the number three top story is my trip to the tokyo bitcoin
bases from simple stacker 23 comments 12 400 sats key on what's this yeah simple stacker went to uh
had a trip to tokyo and i think one day in the saloon he was writing about what where where can
spend bitcoin in tokyo and i responded uh you should go to the tokyo bitcoin base because we
have someone in club lab who recently visited there i know it's kind of funny because i was
like is this the same person yeah they're definitely not i mean they were there at the
same time they were kind of weird but it was like a it was a very popular time in tokyo for bitcoin
stuff i understand okay um i don't think he i don't think simple sacrifice there i think it was
I think it was purely a coincidence, but we had someone who works at a club lab who was there.
And they had posted Tokyo Bitcoin-based photos.
And when SimpleStacker said they were there, I was like, dude, you should go here.
It looks really cool based on this person's pictures.
And so it looks like he ended up going.
He made a stop, I think because something else that they planned on doing was canceled.
He said it was pretty empty.
I think that it might have been the day after or the day of an event that they had just had.
I think Fulger Ventures sponsored some kind of Bitcoin Builder Day there.
And yeah.
And so he said it was so that it looks like they have a pretty elaborate kind of like museum-y science project type of stuff in their lounge area.
And so he got to check it out.
This picture in particular is a mining system that heats an aqua, that like feeds in, the heat feeds into an aquaponic system and keeps like a fish tank warm.
I think it's also powered by solar, you know, just kind of like a Rube Goldberg type of mining setup that is great for stuff like this.
It becomes kind of art in a way, kind of like industrial art.
yeah he's i mean it looks that their their base looks really cool i love how it's decorated
um yeah it looks really cool yeah it looks you know look it's sort of like
a mid-century japan that's kind of what it how i would describe the aesthetic he went and then he
even he went here for lunch because they accept bitcoin and he was disappointed in the food
unfortunately but really yeah the food truck um yeah that is just funny the food i guess there
are many of those food trucks and they all accept bitcoin to the owner of the food truck company
the big corner yeah mount mount fuji oh wow yeah we all know that anybody ever climbed that thing
i would i would guess lots of people have i would guess it's uh it's a thing that people do i don't
even know i'm i don't know how tall it is looks like it's gonna erupt or something it looks like
there's like a crack there oh it definitely might be a volcano i don't i don't know much
about volcanoes oh cool they have a bookshelf yeah they had a bunch see one of your favorite books
let's see which one uh it's hard to get through here i mean i like the sovereign individual
i read gun germs and steel it's not really a bitcoin book mastering lightning digital gold
was good broken money i don't see broken money maybe someone someone took it um what is the grid
i've never heard of that one fooled by randomness the grid yeah there's one over here called the
grid i can't see it it's maybe behind the yeah it's like right there what was really cool thanks
by the next to the price of tomorrow it was really cool one of the pictures he took had someone in it
who was sitting in the lounge and the person who was sitting in the lounge came on stacker news
and they're like hey that was me oh wow picture of but it was his face is covered by the terminal
there but you could see him there oh yeah um but he came he slid into the comment section and he's
like bro that's me thanks for hiding my face yeah and then he described his own experience visiting
there he said there's a second floor uh to to the lounge but it's mostly just like an uh further
like entryway to the offices upstairs that looks really cool hopefully we're gonna check it out at
some point i want to check it out i know to ruck to ruckoo and lisa are doing a really good job of
trying to grow that space so should be really cool we met them at uh we met them at we met
lisa at meridia and then we met we met up with turuku at atlanta for uh for tapcom turuku came
to Austin once didn't he?
No she's a she.
It's a she. Okay. Yeah so Taruku
we've known her we've known Taruku
since 23.
Okay. And then
I've done my best to like
help her out and give her advice
and
you know give her as much information
as we could at least plub blub to
let her know how we did
it and how to do it since
about that long ago. Yeah.
Okay.
i thought also didn't wasn't there uh the wallet founder from japan that came and visited oh yeah
yeah yeah yeah he was he's over there i don't know if he's still i don't know if he's still
building that or not i think they shut down the wallet yeah um but i don't there's a lot of people
that have come through club lab from japan yeah yeah it's always cool at this point it's kind of
it's kind of hard to remember how many people i've talked to about like hubs and stuff at this
point it's been it's been like dozens at this point i was just i just got off a call like
an hour ago with somebody who's doing a hub right now it's i mean they're really cool it's really
nice to see bitcoin in the physical world and you know even if it's just like people who care about
bitcoin gathering together yeah um there's something special about it definitely something
special about it definitely every major city should have one for sure because i think if you
don't have one i think bitcoin will just die in the city like it won't happen yeah it needs a
catalyst you need like uh you need at least one hub in every major city at least that's my dream
um we're lucky we have uh three major hubs in in austin do we yeah so nifty's okay club lab
and then bitcoin park we have three hubs that's that's how you know we're the bitcoin capital of
the world i don't know has nifty started doing events and stuff i because i as far as i mean
it's a hacker space okay i didn't realize she was she had she was renting out desks and stuff i
thought it was just oh no no i mean it's like a hub though right somewhere to go yeah and yeah
somewhere to be somewhere to visit yeah somewhere to visit okay but yeah we have three in in austin
and then that web 5 one
or is it a web 3 one
or web 5
I don't know is Dorsey involved
if Dorsey's involved it's web 5
I think that one's CIA
we don't know what that one is
might be
but yeah
pretty cool stuff dude
the number 2
top story of the week is
the part of bitcoin you have
to trust this is from scoresby 56 comments 3671 sets key on what's this yeah uh so this scoresby
continues um going through both schools um crypto economics book and this this week's chapter was on
uh the axiom of resistance which is sort of the bitcoin bitcoin succeeding or believing in
bitcoin's system succeeding relies on us believing that resisting the state and uh network software
context is possible so that is kind of like the assumption bitcoin's value prop um depends on and
yeah and so this chapter and crypto economics just calls that out just brings that to attention
it says here proving statements about bitcoin requires reliance on axiomatic systems specifically
mathematics probability cat catalyptics which is a austrian economics thing about prices um and uh
and the assumption that uh it's possible to resist the state and so it's more or less what
this about and that's what uh scoresby wrote about here and kind of elaborated on is that um
bitcoin has not really been attacked yet so we don't like in a in a very direct manner by the
state they haven't tried to go after mining the tax we know that a state that only a state could
do they have not some of them they have not yet done the ones that would really destroy bitcoin
like um you know taking buying somehow occupying both mining pools that control like 50 over 50
percent of the hash rate or things like that um i would definitely say they have attacked bitcoin
already and they are currently attacking bitcoin yes covertly not yeah not but not in a not in a
way that most of us would agree would really risk Bitcoin not succeeding. I would agree with you
that it's like under pretty regular attack, but they're mostly going after like on and off ramps,
really destroying the UX with regulations around this kind of stuff. But they're not yet
trying to destroy the system itself.
They're kind of destroying
the usage of it, I would say.
And a bit different.
But regardless, I think
even if it's whether Bitcoin
is currently under attack
or not yet under attack,
it's succeeding and it's succeeding
requires it to be censorship resistant
and all these things to give it value
require Bitcoin being able to resist state control over it.
And we just take that as it's stated.
We can't prove that Bitcoin can resist state control.
We just kind of have to assume it's possible
that the system will be able to.
Yeah.
We got the top comment from Elvis Mercury.
He said, this is the biggest thing missing from almost every discussion of Bitcoin, in my opinion,
what it means for it to succeed or fail.
The various moves the state could make, what might happen as a result,
and how we could tell empirically if it were happening.
My take is that most Bitcoiners are operating under cartoonish assumptions about this,
mainly from having never really thought critically about any of it
and having instead incorporated that Bitcoin talking points is a major matter of religion.
But the tell of this is why the way of being are the grandstanding critiques of the existing systems, including prophecies about the ultimate fate.
Yeah, he goes on.
Do you agree with Elvis Mercury?
Yeah, I would agree.
I think you do, yeah.
I would agree.
I mean, I'm always, I agree with most things that the call out of Bitcoiners being complacent.
So I definitely agree with the sentiment.
I do think that
there is a large body
of writing and thinking
that has been done on the state attack
stuff
but yeah it's definitely not popular
and represents a minority
of the content produced about Bitcoin
and should be
discussed more
so yeah I agree
with that
I agree with that too
Interesting
Lots of good stuff in the comments here
Yeah Check it out The number one top story Of the week is this is not what adoption looks was he trying to say like or luke yeah it was a typo okay uh this is from siggy 4701 comments
20 000 sats kian what's this yeah i thought that i thought the title was actually a joke but
it was a typo um siggy documents his experience with the occupy wall street movement so it
These are photos taken by him through one of the camps in what used to be,
what is, I think, Zuccotti Park.
That was in 2008, right?
Yeah.
Or 2010 or something?
2000, it might have been 2000.
Yeah, 2008, 2010.
Yeah, roughly, I think a little bit, maybe 2007.
I think it was early as 2007.
But he said he was working in downtown Manhattan.
and got a chance to stop by and talk to some of the people.
He said it was pretty small.
He said it was a lot smaller than you'd think it was based on the news reports
and describes how they were actually occupying the park.
I guess it's a public park that is privately owned,
which is a common thing, I guess, in New York City.
um and yeah he said they're most you know the people that he talked to or people who had their
homes foreclosed on or he said there were you know socialists who were kind of there handing out
like native new yorkers who were there handing out socialist pamphlets and stuff uh and then he
he uses this to motivate talking about you know what's going on with with bitcoin but he
He transitions to talking about Bitcoin by talking about Larry Fink because Larry Fink was involved, I think, in handing out the money to financial institutions during the bailouts.
So Larry Fink was appointed as the point man for distributing the money, which financial institutions to get bailed out and which one shouldn't.
I don't know if he was at BlackRock then, but he was at an MBS firm prior to being the CEO of BlackRock.
And so he's chosen to handle funds for the bailouts.
And then he went on to run BlackRock.
The rest is history.
Yeah, so he discusses that because to point out that – or he quotes Larry Fink saying that he's aware of how bad their handling of the bailout funds were and how – like both optically and otherwise, it's like it was not – it didn't help normal people.
but yeah that didn't really change results any but he's at least he at least acknowledged it at
some point and then he and he kind of ends this section about Larry Fink talking about how
you know he now he's now pro very pro Bitcoin and manages the largest ETF and encourages us to view
you know people like Larry Fink with skepticism because they you know they are extremely conflicted
if not operating in bad faith altogether.
So Larry Fink is in charge of the biggest Bitcoin ETF.
Is he going to do the right thing in the case
where something happens with a big Bitcoin ETF,
given that he failed to do it during the bailouts?
He probably won't.
But he uses, he says all of this to encourage us to use Bitcoin the right way.
You know, take custody of Bitcoin yourself.
Learn how Bitcoin works.
Learn how to be your own bank and not farm it out to people like Larry Fink, who you should know you cannot trust.
and yeah I thought it so that the you know this is not how this is not what adoption looks like
is this kind of the main point the ETFs are not are not what a Bitcoin adoption looks like
cool we had the top comment from scores be some good reminders here I suspect the SN as a group
of Bitcoin is probably the least likely to be holding ETF shares and believing in 40 chess yet
complexity does slip up on us if we are
careful
Billy the Kid said
Bitcoin subculture is as significant
as it's moneyness
yeah
Optism said
Coinbase is reputable and then he says since when
just because they say maintain an image
that they are doesn't mean they actually are
even if we'll stay reputable
yeah
there's a lot of comments
here's like 101 comments which is
yeah they really got into it
everybody talked about it
there's that
that really notable
paper clipping
it's in the
opera turn in the first
coinbase output
chancellor on the brink of second bailout
for banks
billions wow only billions back then
now it's like trillions
you think we'll break a hundred trillion
before the end of the decade?
$100 trillion in debt?
Yeah.
Oh.
We're at $38, I think.
We're probably at $39 now.
I would guess so.
It seems to be going at that.
Exponentials are hard, but yeah.
I would say it'll be higher than you would think it will be.
It's not going to be linear.
Yeah.
You know what?
I'm going to go over $100 before the end of the decade.
for the end of the decade the end of the decade meaning by 2030 yeah we'll go over 120 100 trillion
okay i think that's a i think that's a fair bet i think you could probably make a really strong
case that that'll happen like even with numbers and stuff yeah let's hope uh let's hope uh
we're still alive we'll see
of course we'll be alive we'll be thriving in our uh bitcoin citadels that we build at the bottom
of the ocean hey all you guys are talking about i'm gonna go into the middle of a country and
set up buy some farmland bro the middle how about the bottom of the ocean i'm never gonna get you
there that's where all the ufos are that's right dude and we don't know that they're hiding well
Those might not even be UFOs.
Those might just be Bitcoiners already.
Yeah, those are.
That's the future Bitcoiners coming back from the future.
Yeah, those Tic Tac UFOs.
That's Satoshi, dude.
Dodging all the feds.
Of course he's going to fly by.
Satoshi, bro.
That's awesome.
All right.
That's all the top stories of the week here on Stacker.News.
um we're gonna jump into the ai bitcoin segment um let's let's jump into this one before we get
into the fun stuff um did you see the genesis mission that uh your boy trump uh signed yeah
i looked in i so the weird thing about this is i saw this story getting circulated but i was like
they signed this executive order like i felt like a while ago um no but it says the 24th yeah it
says the 24th um so this post was from i guess i don't know i don't know where this post came from
but it showed up on Stacker News. I guess it's from the same guy. Yeah. It was a really good
post. Like it was a really, this is something that you would expect from like the rage or something,
but I read through it. He's basically talking about how he foresees a time when a lot of these,
or let me just start with the context. So the Genesis, the Genesis mission is what Trump is
calling the uh the kind of like the apollo mission or the manhattan project but for ai
quantum and everything that's the future is hopefully going to provide for those words
yeah sure yeah um david david saxe's book sure
uh anyway so long story short um he goes into this kind of like hypothetical
you know there's going to be a bailout coming for a lot of this stuff uh and then so he kind of
talks about this in a context of like we've seen covet 19 we've seen the manhattan project look at
how this turned out it actually didn't turn out for the better it just basically made this
kind of nanny state or not nanny state this nanny government for uh for all these these all these uh
how would you say they just basically made these um uh they just basically made them all like uh
uh uh you know just uh how would you say um they corrupted uh nuclear technology basically
yeah but they just made boeing and they're all just kind of uh they're just great yeah they're
just zombies they're not like they're not actually creating any um there's no competition there's
literally no competition with any of these companies they're just straight handing money
over every every year yeah kind of techno fascism like this is like what we when you look at air
airliners now this that's the result of like techno fascism 50 years ago yeah i love that word
okay uh so they're talking about how right now currently with open ai and hsbc had these
projections that that they came out they're saying that it's very it's very likely that
open ai is not going to be able to like um hit their uh um how would you say their their growth
targets that they're they're trying to hit um and because i think they're at they're running at a
loss, but it's like a humongous loss. And even like Sam went on record, I think like a two weeks
ago with Satya. It was like circulating around the internet, this video of him. And it was got
posted on Sacred News. I think I talked about it too, but it was, it was a really interesting video
where he was, he was the guy who was asking him, he was also an investor with OpenAI
and Satya was on there too. And then eventually Sam just like said, Hey, if you want to sell your
shares let me know i can find somebody to buy your shares but so all this to say and he goes
into this article talking about how it's very likely that they're not going to be able to hit
all all the revenue that they're that they're out there trying to do because you have nvidia
already invested into a lot of these companies already you know um buying some of the compute
for a lot of these companies already doing their best to kind of uh bubble up these these uh already
existing AI companies. So he's predicting that David Sachs is going to do like this bailout
because it only lasted like 18 days or something like that previously. And then he goes into this
and then he goes into this other thing about how he foresees like the surveillance state coming
because of this like Genesis mission that Trump is putting together. And he sees that there's
going to be a panopticon of these companies. There's going to be no competition. You're going
to get rid of a lot of all of these early stage AI companies that would have been created.
and you're going to be able to you're going to see just uh nothingness and this is actually
going to be bad for AI in the long term and um I think I covered everything um yeah I think that's
that's where he kind of goes with that you know did you read this post did you see it no so I
thought for some reason I thought this was like old news and I was like bro I can't I'm not about
to read some old news nothing happened with regard to this because I would expect it to
have heard about it if it really mattered but I guess it was new news um I mean I don't I haven't
looked at it too much. I do remember that clip circulating about Sam Altman falling off a podcast
because he didn't want to answer a question about their profitability. You hear Mark Zuckerberg
saying he's open to wasting hundreds of billions of dollars pursuing AGI because he believes it's
worth the risk. I think that's what you're seeing with Altman. He can go to investors and he's like,
he's like yeah there's you know potentially like yes our obviously our revenue is way behind where
it needs to be to make this money back but the upside is infinity um like if we if we get to agi
first and we are just that much farther ahead than everyone else and we are you know literally
running the entire economy with our you know our replicatable brains um no one's going to be able
to catch up with us we're we're going to be the gods of the new era don't you want to share in the
new god i think that that's like kind of what it it seems like that's that's i think the pitch and
it's a you know it's a pretty compelling pitch if you believe that that's actually what's going to
happen with agi well he in his pitch deck i don't know if you remember i don't know if you remember
his pitch deck his pitch deck literally had one of his one of his uh hockey stick charts in his
pitch deck was the earth's gdp it wasn't just like the united states gdp it was like the earth's gdp
That was one of his slides in his deck.
I just thought, I was like, wow, that was such a, just like a crazy maneuver to put that in there.
It was just insane.
Right here, this is where it says, so in the article, he goes into from innovation to extraction, and he talks about the Genesis mission.
So in this part specifically, he says, this extraction will intensify as baylights become routine each time AI companies face shortfalls, they'll demand federal assistance.
Each time the government provides relief, dependency deepens. Eventually, the industry becomes indistinguishable from defense contractors, nominally private but functionally integrated into government surviving through political connections rather than market performance.
And that's the scary part is because then you're kind of going into this like, you know, if you serve the right master, if you serve the right, you have the right network, you are at the right cocktail party.
You know what I mean?
Then it just becomes you're not even actually competing with anybody out there in the ecosystem.
You're literally just attending these things and then you get the, you know, you appease the room.
And now you're in that kind of golden group.
So, man, it sucks, dude.
Yeah, so my view on this, if this is actually what happens in the U.S.,
I think the U.S. just won't be competitive in AI.
But there's no one else, though.
It's just literally China, and they're communistic.
And then Europe's not participating.
And then so who else do you have?
We've looked at, we've seen the charts.
We've seen the map.
remember like that we've had multiple segments here on second use live where we've seen
the map of ai and it hasn't really taken off anywhere else i don't know i think you have india
you have uh which also is i think competitive in this regard lots of tech lots of people you know
very fast growing i think there are parts of africa that can maybe um you know they obviously
don't have the same kind of tech sectors i mean the u.s is of course leading kind of right now and
China's kind of competitive in that regard.
But if the US stagnates, if China stagnates because the state is like two intermingles
with these things, I think all that happens is it opens up for someone else to innovate
in the area.
So long as whoever is the world power doesn't strangle everyone else's innovation.
And that seems to be what sort of happened with planes, like because the US is like sort
of the global leader. They're kind of in control of the world order. They are the ones kind of
producing most of the planes or designing them. It seems that we hadn't had much innovation in
planes. And you can kind of imagine the same thing might happen with AI where like, you know,
open AI perhaps, you know, helps them as a result of riding this bubble, they get way ahead. And
then they are so far ahead that they have so much power that they can kind of like stifle
competition globally that's you know that could happen i would say it's more akin to i wouldn't
say like planes i would say more like um like kind of like rocketry or like uh space space flight or
like i think nuclear is maybe yeah like i think people do it best that's best yeah because you
could you could even argue like some of this ufo technology that people are seeing out there is
actually just the united states government and it's black budget right like that that's where
like I would I would I would automatically assume like this is where this could go like we're gonna
talk about another post later on but like let's just say hypothetically they do have some interesting
things that they could build later on and that the the people that are out there don't know about
all of a sudden you have like some AI virus that hits and everybody can't solve it because they're
working on like 10 years backward technology and these are all hypotheticals but it kind of it's
It's just very like, it just kind of like, it just leaves this widened gap.
And it just stunts humanity.
Just to put it frankly, like it stunts humanity's growth.
And it doesn't move us forward.
If anything, it just keeps us in the kind of reductive state that we've been in since like what.
And who was making this eloquent argument?
Like what?
Like 20, like wasn't it?
When is it?
One of the, what is it?
Wasn't it one of the guys from, who's that guy that you and Jenna watch?
Weinstein?
Wasn't he talking about this deductive state that the United States is in?
And it has been in for like 30, 40 years because no one's actually like
create anything.
But it probably is because we're in this kind of like a place where they're
not sharing the information.
They're not sharing any of the technology that could probably move this
stuff forward.
Yeah.
So that's like Teal's point that Eric Weinstein also, you know, puts forward is that since like the early 1970s, productivity has not really grown much.
We've been kind of stagnated and there's been lots of kind of like financial and sort of digital innovation.
But the world, the world that we maybe care about most, the world of atoms has not really grown.
And this is kind of this is also something Peter Teal talks about.
or maybe his time more recently into his Antichrist lectures, which is, you know, part,
one of his theories as to why we stopped growing in the 1970s was because technology got too
dangerous. And, you know, kind of the, either our collective human sentiment about it was that this
is scary and we need to stop and stay away from it. Or, you know, perhaps like kind of governments
or world leaders sort of saw the risks of technology
kind of getting into the wrong hands,
especially nuclear technology.
We began to get really afraid of nuclear technology
because we saw how destructive it was.
Perhaps there was a little bit,
we were kind of getting in the way of our own success,
stopping us from continuing to innovate in these areas
that were terrifying to us.
And he used like part of what he uses as like a stand in for how we maybe unconsciously held these beliefs is how most of our like sci fi and stuff became dystopian.
Like it stopped me in about like, you know, it wasn't like Star Trek.
We're going to we're going to, you know, travel the world and meet or travel the universe and meet new species.
it became more like there was a nuclear war
and only 10 people survived
and the rest of them are zombies or whatever.
Like that's like most of the sci-fi that we have now.
Anyway, yeah.
So you could, I guess you could kind of,
I think that is going to happen with AI.
I think that is.
I mean, it just got signed into law
and like he's going to benefit from it.
Like Palantir is actually going to be one of those companies
that is going to benefit from this.
And we'll see what other ones that sex allows.
But it's kind of a bummer, man.
Yeah, but I think part,
so when I looked into the Genesis stuff,
I think part of it was that it was the government was,
there might be funding stuff,
but the part that I was interested in was the data.
I think part of it was like,
the government will now go out of its way
to kind of make the data publicly.
all of its like National Science Foundation data and other data that was kind of, you know,
inaccessible. They're going to get they're going to give privileged access to a few companies,
or maybe perhaps they have some application process so that they can train models on it.
And, you know, they're basically trying to give United States AI companies a lead. But I think
where this eventually ends is, you know, AI is going to be an existential risk, it's going to be
a weapon and so eventually the government is going to get super involved in it anyway and if
i don't know if you remember leopold bonaparte's um paper and he did a he did a great podcast with
that ai podcast guy who's like the most popular one but uh he he that's like it part of how he
sees the next decade or so going with AI is eventually it becomes very risky.
Like the technology becomes extremely secretive because you're afraid that an enemy is going to
come in possession of the technology. And then they're going to be even a few months ahead of you
is potentially risk them destroying you.
And so that's like,
that's how these people are thinking about this stuff
is like, we just have to get there first.
It doesn't matter how we get there,
but you know, we create all kinds of bubbles,
all kinds of distortions in the market
is existential that the US succeeds
at getting there first.
And I think that's just, you know,
well, I think, I think it's,
I think it's like,
I think it was going to happen either way.
I don't think it mattered who was elected
or anything like that.
and the the because the piece even talks about it but um so i think the genesis mission was
going to happen regardless of who got elected trump does it in a very gaudy fashion you know he
he wraps it in 24 karat gold like a gold leaf like like that everything everything he does is like
yeah buddy this is what we're doing i think you know when when other presidents do this kind of
thing, at least my impression of it was, it was done in a whisper. It's like, yeah, we're
partnering with these guys over here. And it had more code, but Trump is like, we need to do this.
Otherwise, for the US, the US needs to win. We're going to be winners. And so I think that's why,
like, but it's good because it alerts more of the general public to kind of what's going on
and the government how kind of weird how much power it exercises yeah i think i think the biggest
problem with this and maybe you can clue me in on this i think the biggest problem whenever you put
everything under the guise of of one nation like this there's there's always like crevices and
leaks and cracks and and what ends up happening is you have like one like one like one thing like kind of like the death star it like one thing that can actually topple the whole thing down And that the scary part I don think people pay too much attention to but if you look through history it always
it's always been like that.
Anyways,
that was really,
that's a really good article.
Genesis mission.
Definitely read it.
It's definitely worth reading.
The other one I want to bring up was actually before,
before I bring this up,
because it kind of ties into the whole Genesis mission.
I want to jump to one of my posts real quick.
So the cryptographer DJ Bernstein criticized his push to finalize post-quantum cryptography.
This is not really a post-quantum cryptography post.
This is more about Dan Bernstein.
So Dan Bernstein, if you've never heard of him before, he is a...
Here, let me see if I can read this correctly.
Make sure I get it right.
He designed the Salsa 20 StreamCipher in 2005.
And then he also was the one who proposed the elliptic curve 25519 as a basis for public key schemes.
and since 2014 when when open ssh is compiled with open ssl they power most of its operators
open bst packaging signing is based on eds ed25519 so this guy is a very big person in the
cryptography field um so the us the nsa is this post goes is from brent he posted on stacker news
i don't think he got any attention at all but what's interesting is this one guy single-handedly
kind of stepping up to the United States government.
And this is on Slashdot.
Remember Slashdot?
So in October, Daniel Bernstein alleged
that the America's National Security Agency
were attempting to influence NIST
to adopt weaker post-quantum cryptography standards
without a hybrid approach
that would have also included
pre-quantum elliptic curve cryptography.
Bernstein is of the opinion
that given how many post-quantum proposals
have been broken
and the continuing flood of side channel attacks,
any competent engineering evaluation
will conclude that the best way to deploy
post-quantum encryption for TLS
and for the internet more broadly
is as double encryption for post-quantum cryptography
on top of ECC.
But he says he's seen it playing out differently
and he goes into it,
but he also shares concerns
about how the internet engineering task force
is handling the discussion
and argues that the document is even out of scope.
So he's basically saying that the NSA and the United States government is purposely putting, kind of similar to what we were just talking about with the Genesis mission, is like they're purposely working down, or how would you say?
They are weakening the cryptography so that way they can then exploit it later on.
And he's talking about this publicly so much so that he actually is suing them in court.
It's in the Wikipedia.
And then this is from what Brent said.
He said, the interstate has a history of international sabotage of cryptography standards,
giving themselves and other adversaries sly backdoor access to presume private communications.
So I thought this was insane. I've never heard of such a thing, to be honest.
Oh, yeah. I've definitely heard of such a thing. I don't remember where I've seen,
where I encountered this idea first. I mean, it just kind of makes sense. You have a standards body
that is centralized and corruptible. And so if you're the NSA, why wouldn't you go in there and
try to put your own back doors that are specific to you into it.
I forget, I forget where I first encountered this stuff, but yeah,
I mean, it just kind of makes sense.
Like if you just get,
if you can put yourself in the shoes of the NSA for a second,
it's exactly what you'd want to do.
Yeah.
So I just wanted to bring everybody's attention because I think it's pretty
concerning as somebody who just heard about this today.
I was just like, damn.
So when you couple that with the Genesis mission,
things get really dark.
Goob.
Things get really dark.
I wouldn't pair them together.
That wouldn't be a dinner.
I don't know.
I want to talk to this guy, though.
I want to talk to this guy.
This dad guy.
Or Daniel guy.
I want to talk to him.
Yeah.
Why isn't he?
Why doesn't he have a podcast?
I mean, he should be on podcasts talking about this.
Anyways, somebody get him on a show or something.
get them on what bitcoin did or something because like i feel like this is important
this is really important and we should be talking about this
anyways um so yeah let's jump back into the other so we can get to like the normal post now the
so the other one i would show was the riz bot versus i show speed so apparently there's a uh
this thing happened in austin believe it or not did you see that i posted this on
would you like a compliment there's this uh this robot here um that was kind of set loose in austin
uh and apparently he's suing or not the robot but the company that guy right there
is suing this influencer for attacking his robot um so here it goes right here you'll see the you'll
see him it's yeah there goes the affidavit look this so yeah here it goes right here so he's like
pretending to box him.
And then look, he just like,
oh, I guess the robot tripped him.
I didn't even see that.
Oh, here goes her hair watch.
So the guy gets mad.
And hang on, let me see.
Yeah, okay, so look.
So this is what he does.
He punches him.
And he broke his neck.
I think he even bent his face in a little bit.
Yeah, and then look.
This just starts beating him up.
What do you think about that?
is this a hate crime i don't think so i think it isn't i show speed like one of those like
i don't know this guy he's like he has all the energy of something like tmz but he's like in a
person i didn't where it's like always like lots of like manufactured his face is damaged johnny
five dude johnny five is not alive isn't that crazy though i mean it's silly i don't but look
So they actually sued that influencer.
Well, yeah, he did damage to their property.
I know, but look, but they're saying that it's like,
and then the APD got involved.
I know, but it said, I guess, well, it looks like I should,
did they, maybe they purchased one of these robots,
and then they're.
It did look like the robot, if you go back to the video,
it did look like he, like, tripped him, though,
in the beginning.
Did you see that?
No, I think it was.
Look, right there, like, right there, look.
No, I think it was.
He assaulted him first.
Look, boom, he punched him.
No, I think.
I don't know, man.
No, it's teleoperated.
Look, look, look.
But he assaulted him first.
Look, look.
The robot isn't a he.
There's a person who's going to control the robot.
Look, the robot assaulted him.
Look, right here.
Here it goes.
Look, the robot assaulted him.
He's in control of the robot.
There's someone on his team in control of the robot swinging at him.
No, but I'm saying if it's an assault.
It's not an assault.
The robot assaulted him.
Look right here.
No, it did it.
Look right here.
I get what you're saying.
I've already described.
Boom, he hit him.
Now he can hit him back.
I show speed.
I show whatever his name is.
His team, someone on his team is the one who's in control of the robot.
I know, man.
I feel like the robot got what he's deserved.
Look at this.
He broke his face, though, dude.
He probably punches really hard.
That's metal.
Look.
Isn't that crazy?
He broke it.
Look, he bent his face in.
Dang.
So I don't know.
It looks, based on what I can see in the article,
it looks like the company is suing mostly for reputational,
like on reputational damages.
like four reputational damages.
I feel like this is all just a really good publicity stunt.
Because even if you lose, you still got the juice from everybody talking about it.
Yeah, worth the lawyer fees.
Anyways, I thought that was hilarious.
But the other thing I wanted to bring up, and this is the last one, was Texas.
I don't know if you saw this.
Hang on, let me go here.
Texas becomes the first U.S. state to buy Bitcoin for its treasury.
Did you see this?
uh yeah i heard it got heard it bought bought etf shares boy lee uh yeah got them to buy
first state to purchase bitcoin with 10 million investment on november 20th
um yeah got the comptroller to buy it uh it's through blackrock so there you go oh you know
yeah so it's in good and safe hands there you go larry fink it says they're eventually going to do
custody i've heard i've heard rumors that they said texas he said correction texas purchased
There's $5 million on November 20th.
$10 million is allocated.
Isn't that crazy?
That is interesting.
Where did the $10 million come from?
What do you mean?
I don't know.
Where did they get it?
Whose money are they spending?
I think it's in here.
It's not like Greg Abbott.
He didn't take it out of his bank account, right?
Or maybe Dorsey donated it?
I mean, that's where a lot of the money is.
I think it came from...
Abbott signed it into law.
I would guess they levied it in the form of taxes.
Where is it?
Taxi-recognitioners.
Let me see.
It's probably just...
Well, the comptroller, right?
So it had to be taxes.
Yeah.
So they took money from people.
And rather than letting those people keep the money
and store it in Bitcoin themselves,
they're going to steal a film.
I think that's big news, dude.
You don't think it's big news?
It's big news.
Congratulations, the state of Texas.
I think it's big news.
For stealing money and buying Bitcoin with it
rather than doing other things with it.
I mean, that just proves that Texas is the place to be.
I mean, yes, it is BlackRock, right?
Like Siggy was saying.
But it's still worth bringing up on the show, I think.
or would you say not bring it up?
Oh, I think it is news.
I think it's news.
But I just don't think it's anything to be...
It doesn't make exact sense to be proud of.
How much Bitcoin is that?
Five million?
I don't know.
It's like a Sailor's Weekly Buy.
It's only probably like 50 Bitcoin.
Yeah.
We'll see.
Anyways, that was the last one that I had.
do you want to get to Wumble's picks before we get to your picks
sure I actually didn't spend much time on this
so we'll do a bit of Wumble's picks
this is Wumble's Wumble's Wumble's Wumble's Wumble's Wumble's
picks Wumble's picks
his picks was get instant disposable email addresses
powered by Bitcoin Lightning Network
this is from Supratic
did you see this post the Ellen email
yeah I think this project has been around for a while
At least I recall it being mentioned somewhere before.
There's a lot of these really cool, like lightning powered.
Yeah, I used to see a lot of these, right, back in 21?
Yeah, I mean, there was the guy who had the fax service, which was cool.
He recently released a postcard service.
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah, which is really cool.
But in this case, it's email.
And Wumba wants us to, so you pay with a bit of Bitcoin on lightning.
and you can get a private email address
and send and receive from it.
I don't know exactly what the rates are,
but I would guess it's either based on,
it's probably based somewhat on usage.
So like the number of emails you're receiving and sending.
But you can get access to a throwaway email address,
which is nice.
So Wombo asks,
would more of these types of services
that only accept Bitcoin
encourage more people to use Bitcoin?
I think so.
I think, yeah, if like there's no other way to get the service, especially for privacy focused services, I think I think it would encourage more people to use Bitcoin.
Is it like is this is what is this what mass adoption is going to be made of?
Probably not.
Unless we're really like unless we're in a world where lots of people want privacy and therefore need to kind of use these services like this.
I mean, even something like Square switching over, even if all of its merchants switched over Bitcoin payments, I don't think that would be a mass adoption event either.
I still think Gresham's Law is in play where I think people are going to spend their fiat until they only have Bitcoin, basically.
So I and so we might never get there, but at least what's nice about Square's thing is that it's it's making more people acquainted with Bitcoin.
The merchants are now they'll get a little bit of Bitcoin. It'll go up in value. They'll become Bitcoiners.
Um, and so I think that's, that's, it's sort of kind of, it will snake its way, um, as sort of a,
a savings, a savings technology. And I don't think it's even there. It's not, we haven't fully
saturated the market in terms of savings technology anyway. Um, so that's my roughly
my answer to that question. I don't know if you had a take on that question, car.
Yeah. So I, I think like a lot, we're talking about Nostra earlier, right. And I think
some of the cool things that are happening on Nostra, like if you just got rid of the Nostra
piece, which is a lot of friction, and you just left the lightning stuff, I think you would have
a lot more people using your app personally. I think one of the things that Nostra does is
introduce a lot of friction. And it's not a popular take that I'm saying right now,
and people will hate me for saying it, but it's just true. And this is a perfect example of not
having Nostra integration. I'm not saying not to ever have it. I'm just saying it just makes things
very easy for the average person just to go over there and to use it without having to figure out
what an NSEC is and like all that stuff and log in and then download a you know a thing and then
before you know you're just like gonna give up because it's just like too much work when in
reality one of the cool things about stacker.news early on was just like scanning your scanning the
thing with the lightning wallet and then logging in that was really cool but uh we're not there yet
with Nostra and maybe we'll be there in the future. But I think one of the cool things about
having more Lightning and Bitcoin apps is that you don't have to have an identity to use it.
And I miss those days. Yeah, I think I hear your point. I think especially there's, I see,
I think where you're especially right is where I see people building apps that don't even really
leverage Nostra in any significant way. They don't, it doesn't, don't really take advantage
of what Nostra is for, yet they're building it on Nostra. And so they're, they're kind of like
limiting their access to a broader market by requiring people to also be familiar with Nostar
to use their product. Which no one's going to use. Which is just, I think it's not yet. It's just too
early. But I do think there's, of course, a bunch of benefits to Nostar in general. But yeah, it is
nice to see a good old-fashioned service using Bitcoin that doesn't exist within one ecosystem
them and have like require you to adopt a paradigm like it requires a paradigm it's not even a
paradigm it's a whole narrative yeah well you have to like first you have to first you have to adopt
first you have to adopt the sound money narrative and that's a whole rabbit hole and then after you
adopt that narrative then you have to go and adopt this whole like freedom technology narrative
which is a whole another rabbit hole and i'm telling you man it's just not possible it's not
it's not possible it's two rabbit holes uh let's just let's just be real about what's going on here
there's two rabbit holes one rabbit hole at a time one rabbit hole at a time like let's just
like yeah i would say nostril is a great place for a test bed like to go do test bed stuff on there
like use it as a good test test case study vibe code the shit out of it and then bring it to
bitcoin and lightning that's what i would do that's what i recommend okay well um anyways that
was it yeah a bit of a tangent but that's roughly you know how do you get people to use bitcoin you
can kind of you know we'd see early signs of bitcoin like adoption things with no stir and so
um that's how that might tie in and the other question one bow had was do you guys have any
other services powered by lightning that you wish someone would build or create now this makes me
wish i had read these questions earlier because i could have thought about all the ones that are
in oscar just bring them over to bitcoin and lightning only that's what i would say well
what's your favorite one or what's one on what's one so i would say the ones that do it really well
these are the ones that do it really well where you don't even realize that you're using oscar
so like wave lake so like fountain so like you know like those right off the bat do it really
where we don't even realize that you're using Nostra.
So I think if you're going to build something,
build it to where you don't even know that you're using Nostra.
I would even argue Primal.
You don't even probably notice that you're using Nostra on Primal.
I would note it.
Unless the only reason that you know that you're using Nostra
is because everybody's saying Nostra, Nostra, Nostra.
But if you're the average person,
you wouldn't even notice that you're using...
They wouldn't even know that they're using Nostra.
And I think you need to build more apps
that are just like lightning only um bitcoin only okay but he's those over yeah but he's asking
uh specifically one would someone would build or create that would be powered by lightning and
and so you've you've listed ones that are already powered by uh which which one would i love to see
i want to see a telehealth app that is bitcoin lightning only okay telehealth okay so you want
to pay a doctor a remote doctor to diagnose you and prescribe you medication and pay them with
lightning yeah that's who you want to see yep okay that's that's pretty specific um
i don't know exactly what i want yet i'll have i haven't thought about this really at all
uh because i think people are still thinking too too social it's like too social stuff it's like
like let's figure out how to make revenue generating businesses.
And I think the telehealth apps, telehealth app is really hard because it's two sided marketplace.
But you could see a world where if you slowly build that out and you have like one or two doctors in a region or even a city,
you could have like a good group.
You don't even need to be a telehealth app.
It could be like a telework app, you know, maybe your favorite mechanic or something.
could basically be like a craigslist for uh for lightning and bitcoin i would love like i think
what i'm what i'm begun to think about is maybe like some kind of package delivery
this is like a problem that we have on with stacker news where we want to send things to
stackers maybe because they've you know it's just like sort of a prize or a reward for doing certain
things on stacker news and a lot of them don't want to give out their addresses rightfully um
But it'd be kind of cool if they could set up some kind of mailbox, some kind of service that we pay.
They're like a forwarding service, and we actually mail packages to the service, and that stacker can set it up there.
We pay money to that service to forward the package onto the stacker, maybe.
I don't know how that would work exactly.
Yeah, I feel like once you get the real world involved, you're asking for all sorts of legal trouble.
yeah yeah that's what that's why but that's kind of what i want that's where that's where that's
where bitcoin becomes exciting yeah but you just can't do that with like money and then
under the authoritarian authoritarian regime that we're in which is the united states of america like
you can't mix those two things man you're just asking to go to you know just not maybe in a
different country i would say you're probably able to do that maybe i just don't think you can do that
in america and get away with it because they're gonna they're gonna pop you for like something
somebody's going to be a bozo and like send you know drugs or something yeah uh i mean that's fair
but i don't um then you're gonna go you're gonna go to joe for holding the bag you know
uh i don't know but uh yeah i don't know i don't know of any i you know so i'd have to think about
this more to really figure it out but i love these little i love these like micro sass is kind of what
how i would describe them that are powered by lightning and they're probably pretty lean there's
another one called like sats host um oh like a gumroad like a gumroad it's not gumroad it's like
a web it's a static website hoster and you pay with lightning i believe or maybe on chain bitcoin
you can pay with too but you pay a very small amount um and they'll statically host your
your website for you i told uh i told i was talking to justin this week i told justin that
he needs to build a just from shock net i told him that he needs to build like a kind of like
just a product inventory.
So that way people,
kind of like a McDonald's menu
where you like select what you want
and then just a QR thing pops up
and you just pay it.
So we can have that for the hackerspace
where you just like,
you pick a thing
and then you just pay it
and then pops up, pays it.
Like it's basically like a McDonald's kiosk basically.
And I want to do that with just like lightning.
It doesn't need to keep inventory track
or anything like that.
It's just for the fridge and snacks and stuff.
And I was telling him,
I was like, man, dude,
you should just build one of those
and I would totally use it.
I imagine Ellenbits has something like that.
I bet Darth Cardinal.
Yeah, but Ellenbits is.
Ellenbits is?
Ellenbits.
Ellenbits is blank.
Anyways, but I think that would be really cool,
but I don't want to use, like, you know,
I want to use something that's going to work.
You know?
Anyways.
Cool stuff.
Wumble.
Wumble's picks.
He picks them.
He picks them and we talk about them.
We talk about them.
It's always a spicy one, just like today's.
We're going to jump into Keon's picks, if he has any.
Oh, okay, yeah.
What's your pick?
One of the picks is from South Korea, LN.
They went to Hawaii and...
Was it this week?
Yeah.
My second shop to pay with Lightning in Hawaii, I think...
Oh, there it goes.
The week before they went and bought coffee,
I think they found some Square merchants
that had turned on Bitcoin on their terminals.
So they bought coffee last week and this week he went to a ukulele shop.
You know, if you're going to buy a ukulele, better do it in Hawaii.
Cause that's kind of, I think that's like the origin of the instrument.
And so he bought two ukuleles in Hawaii and was able to pay with Bitcoin.
Was he able to bring them back?
Why wouldn't they let him?
Oh, cool.
He didn't fill them with drugs, I imagine.
Whoa.
Or anything like that.
Or sand.
i mean it's not a bad idea but um like grow some good cheap out there you know i mean
dude when i went to hawaii we went to maui when i was like oh man uh i think i was like 20
like 20 i think i was like 20 and uh this was before 9-11 and uh the people that i was with
they were able to sneak marijuana onto the over the plane this is how this is how easy it was
back then, pre-9-11.
Is that crazy?
I don't know.
But I fly with when I was smoking a lot of weed I would fly with a couple joints in my bag really yeah no problem oh wow do they not check i don think they care i think they might they
might have seen him in the scanner but i have like you know i have like a couple of joints
it's like what are you gonna do no but back back then and i didn't smoke but uh i still don't smoke
but he he brought like a pipe and a bag it was a bag it was like yeah fine with it was it was just
like damn bro like brought like a kit yeah he brought like a kit i was just like dang that's a
lot of marijuana like how did you do that but it was i guess he wanted to have a good time
yeah i don't you really don't need that much weed to have a good time unless you're you have like
very high tolerance but um yeah uh he bought some ukuleles i imagine he's going to if he's not
living in hawaii i imagine he's going to take them back with them he said that he had that he said
that the person who was manning the counter
was, I think, he thought it was the owner's wife
who wasn't actually familiar with the Bitcoin part,
so he had to kind of encourage them.
I wonder if it was in Honolulu.
They have a big...
They have a meet-up and everything. What's her name?
They have a...
Gosh, I forget her name, but
she runs their community over there
in Honolulu. I forget her name.
The shop's name is called
Best Hawaii Ukulele.
Yeah, but there's a bunch of Bitcoiners in Hawaii, though.
Oh, I'd believe it.
Yeah, we knew some who used to be there.
Cool stuff.
What was the other one you had?
The other one was Elvis Mercury shared a post,
The Shape of the Game We Play.
Shape of the Game We Play?
Where's that one at?
It's above you.
It's up there.
It's like top six, I think six in the sixth.
Oh, this one, yeah.
Yeah, this one.
So this article is about,
the author argues that you can learn a lot
by reading business biographies,
or you can save yourself a lot of time
making mistakes running a business
by reading a lot of business biographies.
And they kind of discussed that point.
I guess they got some pushback in a comment
in one of their blogs about it,
where a guy is like,
there are some things you cannot learn by reading.
And I think the commenter used weightlifting as an example.
It's like, you can read books about weightlifting all day,
but at some point you kind of have to get in the gym
and there's a lot you learn there that you just cannot translate into a book form.
It is a lossy transform.
So Elvis uses this to, or part of what the person who wrote this post describes
is that we get kind of, part of the problem with only going to the gym
and never reading the book is you kind of are stuck with the limited experience that you have
while you're doing it, which is not going to be very thorough. A weightlifting book will probably
explore lots of different theories on weightlifting and lots of different research articles. But if
you only go to a gym, you might encounter, you might just adopt the weightlifting strategy of
your friend or, you know, better cases, maybe you have a personal trainer, but they, they might not
themselves have read all the weightlifting books. Um, but Elvis just uses that to describe how,
um, our view of things is like limited and we are, we are kind of blind, um, to things and we can get
really stuck in assuming things in the future are the way or are going to be the same, the same
as the way we've experienced them.
And it says here at the bottom,
ZERP is kind of one thing that's,
at the beginning of the article,
the author talks a lot about
how they kind of came up
during a zero interest rate period in tech
and how they were like surprised
when interest rates started going up in 2022
and how a lot of the practices
that were done at the startups
and tech companies that they occupied
had changed dramatically
as a result of that.
And they were like not prepared for that.
They just assumed that was the way things were done.
Yeah, I would even argue,
we were just talking about at the beginning of the show,
but I would even argue like even the Bitcoin ecosystem,
like before the ETF was completely different
than the post ETF.
And that was something that took me by surprise, personally.
I never expected,
like I knew like everything was going to change.
I just didn't expect the business side
of the ecosystem to change.
that abruptly in that different post-Bitcoin ETF.
And that's kind of what's taken me by surprise
is just how much everything has changed
post, I guess, the beginning of 2024
when it went through.
Yeah, I think I was surprised by the degree
to which people's attention follows the money.
Like, I thought, I knew the money would flow to the ETF,
but I didn't think people who were previously interested
in like the technology stuff
and the like, you know, cypher punky things would get, would just get, have their attention get
redirected to like Bitcoin bonds and ETFs and, you know, treasuries and strategic reserves.
But that appears to be what happens. I was definitely surprised by that. I was not surprised
by the tech, the one of my favorite, or one of the articles I've been sharing with a lot of founders
more recently is Paul Graham's article, Default Alive, where he argues like kind of the main,
you know, kind of what you always want your startup to be, to not have to make assumptions
about your financial future. So you kind of want to prepare maybe for, you know, things not going
financially in the right way. And so I've personally operated from the position of,
the financial future is extremely unpredictable
and I just kind of have to
if I can't assume
the best rosiest outcome financially
how would I run this business
and make it work
it's a great article
it references a lot
one of the
popular Toyota manufacturing books
I think it's like
something lean
I forget the exact name
but you know how they
the birth of lean right there
yes the birth of lean um and there's a there's a lot of cool uh stuff a lot of the stuff was
invented in japan in there because they they were like the major manufacturer um for the united
states when we became as we transitioned to consumers and so there's a lot like a lot of
this stuff was invented there um i would even say it's even more important now kind of just what you
said about the whole um default to live thing it's even more important now because what you have is
like this whole um this whole class of just i want to call them zombie companies such a
buzzword but you have this whole class of people and companies that are just you know propped up by
the um by the by the you know by the government or by their by their own little kind of group
and um and the game is no longer being up space ted the game is no longer being played fair
oh christmas space tat so it is not being played fair the financial side no i'm saying like when
you were talking about like the default alive i would even argue that even now it's even more
important to have that kind of framing for your startup for your company because the game is not
fair anymore it's not even like it's uh the we were talking about earlier with the whole ai stuff
like it's it's more about who you know and then kind of the network that it grows then then it
has to do with than anything else these days.
And it's even gotten worse with that.
And it's going to continue to get worse with that.
And that was always something that was always said,
oh, you know, your network is your net worth,
you know, that kind of thing.
But now it's like, that's all you need.
I would even argue that's the only thing you need
to build a company these days is just your network.
I wonder if there's a more general point.
You don't even need to have revenue anymore.
You literally just need the right people in your little kind of network, and that'll get you all the way there.
It's kind of sad, but that's where we're at because they can fake revenue now.
I mean, that's literally what NVIDIA is doing, or that's what that article says that NVIDIA is doing.
Yeah.
Anyways.
I'm curious if there's a more general point to be made about social systems trend towards politicization.
maybe, you know, maybe
there's a popular article that, or an article
I really like called
Geeks, Mops, and Sociopaths.
Yeah, I remember that. It's about this kind of like
subculture evolution.
And I wonder, like, it
kind of describes a transition where you have
a very meritocratic kind of
subculture that
eventually becomes like heavily politicized
or like co-opted by sociopaths
basically. But that,
I think that is just like
a politicization process
that happens in a social system.
And that appears to be kind of what's happened in Bitcoin
as a result of maybe, you know, maybe it's the ETFs,
maybe it's other things.
I think it's the ETF.
Yeah, I mean, it definitely coincides with the ETF.
Yeah, it's the ETF.
I wouldn't put any other blame on it anywhere else.
And that's fine.
It's just what it is.
It's just that that was the thing that kind of took me by surprise.
I knew it was going to change things.
I just didn't realize it was going to change things from the inside that much.
And it's definitely, it's even gotten the builders to quit.
You're even seeing less and less Bitcoin lightning builders than ever now.
And it's kind of sad because there are just not as many as there once was.
Anyways.
I think that'll change.
Yeah, I think it'll change in time.
We just got to keep going.
Yeah, I think there's just, Bitcoin culture is in a mood of like,
building doesn't really make sense because we can kind of make money in other ways
i think that's like the mood that's like the sense that people have about bitcoin right now
yeah we're in this nanny state everywhere um cool i think that's all i got here
on wait where's the uh okay let me see here i think that's i think that's all i got do you
have anything else uh what did uh no that i had two uh she had a meta um i don't think we had
meta this week okay we've been doing like bug fixes that we don't announce okay and then uh
so pleb poet had her she's not here today but she had her uh happy thanksgiving snacker news zine
um do you take a look at this i did take a look at it see if the web version is pretty great i
like fall a lot i'm a big i'm a fall girl i'm a pumpkin spice girl so i love i love uh
I love a good fall game.
Oh, man.
It's not loading.
Pump and spice latte.
Pumpkin spice latte?
Oh, yeah.
Can you have that hot or no?
Oh, you can definitely have it hot, bro.
Oh, I do not.
Of course, yeah.
I mean, you want to warm up?
I like it.
I like an iced pumpkin spice latte.
Put a fire on your Samsung?
Bro.
A little pumpkin spice latte?
It's not loading.
Living in the woods.
Anyways, but check it out.
Get yours.
And, yeah, it's a festive one on Stacker News.
Yeah, it's not loving.
Probably because we're streaming.
But, yeah, look at this.
Look at it.
It's got leaves on it.
I think those are hand-drawn.
Or they could be real leaves.
But there's also flowers, which conflicts,
because you don't really have fall flowering, really, I don't think.
Why embrace the system that Bitcoin was created to destroy?
That's the question of the year, I would say.
That's probably a quote from Siggy's article about Luke.
and then um our perpetual thankfulness why are you thankful for yeah those are all the four all
of our things all our thanksgiving posts over the years nice yeah cool stuff um and then we're gonna
jump into the comments we had a lot of youtube comments one came from this guy about the uh
fleeing the fleeing your country he said don't come to ireland we are full you will you will
will live in a tent bro some of us do live in tents like literally like a lot of bet corners
bet corners don't give a fuck dude so all right you're here first and then the other one was from
the societal decay one the mark andreason says yeah it's the wrong side of the meme she's the
bad person in the interview was she the bad person in the interview i guess she was right oh um she
was yes she's the one asking the question yeah mark mark andreason shared the picture of the
the interviewer who is the bad person and he's kind of using her to represent
himself.
So I think that's what confused people about the meme.
Yeah.
You need to go to bed.
Good points.
Twitty.
And then the other one was from no,
this is your need for a bit four,
four,
four.
He said,
ready knots.
We,
we,
the Bitcoin support bit four,
four,
four.
We think about that one.
Well,
I don't think,
I don't think COVID is a scam for five,
five,
six speaks for all Bitcoiners.
I would just,
I'm just going to,
it's my own.
It's a theory I have,
but there you go.
Yeah.
these are all the comments on youtube man they're getting there's getting more and more and more
comments on youtube which is kind of crazy bring it there's and they're dude the peter teal one is
like i want to answer those but at the same time i'm just like there's just too many too many to
answer those it is a there's a certain level of quality of a youtube comment if you come on if
you come on stacker.news and tag me i'll answer them it's like a like a um what is the what is
the hipster beer is it pabst pabst blue ribbon yeah it's like a pabst blue ribbon of comments
like that's kind of what you get on youtube it's like well the hipster beer in austin is lone star
so yeah that's why that's why i forgot about it because i it's been a long time since i've had a
pabst but pbr yeah pbr that's the way to describe it so uh blockchain book has said zap and then
there's a user that's just zapped and then undisput said it's communism car i think he was
talking about the um the whole andreason horowitz thing really i don't know what other thing were we
talking about where it was uh communism i don't know but uh this is a thing this is a i remember
i i recall like from a year ago we were talking about some like housing some like abandoned housing
project in china where you went on a rant about communism and i was like well you know like i
think you can have this without communism and then undisciplined's like no car is right it's
communism so that so that might be he might be referencing that do you think the genesis do you
think the genesis thing is communism the genesis thing the genesis mission do you think that's
communism no i think well it's it's it's like communism it's it's uh this kind of public private
partnership which they do a lot in are one of the leading examples of communism which is
China. So you kind of have this like capitalism for some, uh, or capitalism with help, uh,
capitalism with state where the state benefits and the company benefits from the state.
It's, I think we, I think like in political science, they just, that's like fascism.
That's like the actual definition of fascism is my understanding. It's like a,
a public private kind of chimera, but, uh,
that might be wrong too.
It might also require social ideology, but, um, yeah,
that is my, what's your take. That is my take.
It is fascism of a kind. Um, that's all we got.
Let's jump into the top cowboys,
Cowboys, baby.
The top cowboys of the week here on Stacker.News.
Got one in hiding.
Kube, Undiscipline, Blockchain Boog.
Gray.
Gray Ruby.
We are all Satoshi.
I don't think we've had much movement since.
I feel like at some point, Undiscipline and Gray Ruby are just going to run Stacker.News.
I mean, it's safe to say, right?
Well, they do have two of the most popular territories.
and they do run the most popular podcast
on Stacker.News.
Yeah.
Makes sense.
Do they have better numbers than we do?
I think they do.
Really?
Yeah.
We should compare.
We should have a beef.
I'm perfectly fine with them having a way bigger podcast
than we do.
I'm perfectly fine with it, too,
but it'd just be kind of fun to have a beef.
I mean, they did it the right way.
They even have sponsorships, too.
Really?
Yeah, they have sponsorships.
It's because they're not showing their faces.
Oh, it's because then...
The sponsors don't want to be associated with the people?
Probably, yeah.
Okay.
Do you think we were more attractive?
That wouldn't matter?
I think I'm very attractive.
We can get marked.
I think I'm very attractive to the ladies.
Guys, like a Macy's underwear model.
To the ladies.
You can come in here.
But you're married, Coop, so you don't really have a...
Yeah, no, I get to look like a slob, and it costs me nothing.
We got Optimism, Crypto Sensei, or Kriato Sensei.
I always say crypto.
Scoresby, 117OT.
Machiavelli.
Kepford.
What else we got?
Satwise.
Satwise, which is Siggy is Ecom.
Solomon Satoshi.
Siggy Bezos.
Dr. Braider.
Porygon.
Car.
Philippe.
Sux.
CryptoCoin
Oh CryptoCoin came back
Looks like everybody started updating their profile pictures
I got ShockNet
DeadBeef
Didn't that used to be DeadBeef
Or was it always DeadBeef
It was always DeadBeef
Because DeadBeef you can spell it out in hex
Yeah I think that's pretty much it
Roy
CLR
PlotPoet
bull bitcoin
Harry
Bitcoin search
and Angie rounding up
the top
five zapper
boom boom
there you go
I remember that that picture
I used to love that one
oh yeah that's a good meme
yeah anyways
that's that's all we got
here on stacker news
what are you doing this weekend what am i doing we're moving oh yeah we're moving moving i pack
most of it up i just have to like get the big things ready i guess yeah i'm gonna pack all
the stuff tomorrow it was it didn't take me as long as i thought it was like pretty much you know
a couple of hours filling boxes take that much yeah yeah plus yeah there's not a whole lot out
here yeah just gonna pack it all up tomorrow that's probably mostly what i'll do it's got
yeah family went left town oh they did already they're here for four days yeah and um yeah so
kind of back to my routine and getting did you were you happy seeing them or no oh yeah it was
great i love seeing them i love seeing my wife's um yeah family they're they're great good people
and Tom is a Bitcoiner now.
Oh, yeah.
I made him.
He almost won the Mario Kart thing.
Yeah, I helped.
I've assisted him on a little bit of Bitcoin stuff.
Does he talk about that almost win at all?
Yeah, he does talk about it.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, he was close, man.
No, he's like, I'm going to build a seed signer.
That was like the first thing he did.
it was like it was like it's like i heard about seed signer i i bought all the parts for a seed
signer wow we have one around here somewhere you can have oh well i think part of it is like you
know like you're kind of acquiring all the parts okay because he's gonna build it from scratch yeah
but uh yeah he's got he's he's into it uh so that's cool and yeah my my mother-in-law is cool
and yeah we just chilled how about you what are you doing this weekend we're gonna move so tomorrow
I'm going to pack up all this stuff.
And then Advent's on Sunday, so probably go to church in the morning.
What is Advent?
So it's a reason to be still.
It's a reason to start celebrating the coming of Jesus.
Okay.
Is that the Advent calendar?
Is that really?
I guess, yeah.
I guess that's a way to start doing that.
But it's the coming of Christ.
You know the whole Bethlehem story.
Okay.
Yeah.
So it's not a daily practice?
I mean, you can be, but right now you're supposed to be very...
Focused?
Not focused, just supposed to be very...
Just still.
Just still in a very...
Contemplative?
I wouldn't say contemplative.
Just be comfortable, be in the moment, be...
be, you know, like be still, know that I'm God, that kind of thing.
It's just like everything's going to be fine.
I see.
Everything's in front, you know what I mean?
Yes.
So you want to remove all the anxiousness, all the worries,
all that kind of stuff.
So you don't want to be too like, yeah,
you don't want any of that kind of stuff.
Just want it to be.
I definitely feel like I'm at that point now, at least now,
after all the stuff is finished just in time yeah you'll be in a good spot to do it um yeah
starting sunday but uh yeah it feels good it's good to be moving next week we'll have a whole
new desk we won't have this bad girl anymore well they don't really get to see it so we won't yeah
well peterius won't be advertising with us anymore man they were paying us like 50k a month
Yeah, I got a free hamburger every week.
There goes that 50K every month.
Gosh.
Yeah.
Maria behind the counter, yeah, she would give me a free hamburger.
All that P-Terry sauce.
You like the P-Terry sauce?
I do like the P-Terry sauce.
The jalapenos?
I don't really eat P-Terrys very often because it's like,
I feel like this P-Terrys is like the worst P-Terrys.
But, you know.
Dude.
It's not very good P. Terry's.
The 6th Street one is not good.
If you go to any other P. Terry's, I feel like it's a way better P. Terry's.
I eat there all the time.
If I do not want to cook or anything and I'm...
You go to the 6th Street P. Terry's?
i'll just order right i'll order online and i'll just go pick up and pick up food and that's what
i'll eat because it's cheap i mean it's good don't get me wrong it's just like it's just not as good
as the other peteries i feel like depends on what i just get hamburgers so i don't know no cheese
no i just get oh you just get the regular meat i just go yeah i'm just trying to get do you get
the protein basically lettuce wrap or you do like the bread you have boat oh you get the boat you
can get a boat it comes in a little tray if i'm gonna go anywhere right here i go to the kava
because it's like really good.
Oh.
Yeah, but they're in there.
Every time I get,
they fuck up my order
every time I go,
every time I order something from them
or I have to,
I end up waiting like 30 minutes.
Yeah.
Oh, because you,
oh, you got,
no, you got it.
No, that's the thing.
You can't pre-order with them.
You got to do it live.
That's how I,
that's how I operate in the world.
No, you can't pre-order.
I would pre-order everything
if I could.
I would, you know.
Not at Kava.
Yeah, once,
once I did it once
and realized that they scroll,
I was like, yeah, never again.
Yeah, I don't know why
Because they're busy, dude.
No, but I'll even order when they're not busy.
And they're like, oh, we didn't have what you ordered.
So, too bad, guy.
And it's like, what?
I paid you money.
If you try to pay them in cash, they'll give it to you for free.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Oh, well, that's why you like Kafa.
I mean, if I know that about Kafa.
I'm saying, like, if anybody comes to the 6th Street Kafa location, try to pay them in cash.
They'll give it to you for free.
It works.
Dang.
well somebody we know did that he told me that and i was like does that really work
yeah so yeah we i don't know if it's reproducible it's not reproducible but oh
yeah it's a thing but you should spend you should spend cash because no i i just i tried
and then to see if they did it then i just paid with my card oh but it true they will give it for free i guess it also yeah you kind of have them you kind of have them hostage because like you like well but kava is the only one that will do that though like you can do that chipotle chipotle will literally be like see ya yeah they like shank you yeah
they'll just throw it away no but like kava i feel like kava that you you make this they make this
you know 30 bowl of stuff you've you've why are you spending 30 on a bowl
this is why you can't afford laundry pick up because you're paying 30 on a bowl buddy
yeah this is why i go to peter is there's no possible way i could spend 30
exactly you put me in a kava line i'm like yes i want the i spent like 13 dollars at
black truffle shavings like 13 at kava the gold truffle hummus um yeah but no but like
that you can at the end like they have no like they're not going to throw out all that food so
i imagine you do you do have more leverage than you would at somewhere like chipotle
um because you know you maybe have a ten dollar burrito they're going to throw away
oh you're saying because of everything you put in there maybe yeah because you they they went
through the process they've assumed that this is going to the payment is going to succeed
so like well they need if they need to swap the payment before then or i guess they can't do that
because you're going to add all the ingredients.
Yeah, they don't want to add the friction at the front.
They're going to add it at the back.
Yeah, they didn't figure that out.
Well, they did.
I think they realized, you know, most people are honest.
They're going to pay.
They're not going to try that.
They're like, do you accept gold coins?
Hey, I do.
I pay now with everything.
But I'm just saying, like, when I found that out,
I was like, is that really true?
And then it turns out it's true.
They give it to you for free if you pay cash.
Stackers, when you come visit Austin,
then definitely try the Kava trick and see if it works.
Yeah.
Kava loophole.
Yeah.
It's an interesting trick.
Yeah.
Anyways.
Key open.
Zap zap zap.