live from
In the Planned Lab, it's Austin, Texas.
This is Stacker News Live!
Keon and Plipolis.
How are y'all doing?
What a day.
I am so good.
Yeah?
I'm on fire.
I'm still sort of on fire.
You told me I smelled like tea and I'm still really and I'm still positive.
I think that was a compliment.
like i love my mom my mom used to wake us up and i would smell like brew brewing tea your mom
smells like tea and i smell like well as a kid like i would smell brewing tea like it's the best
compliment i've ever heard i smell like your mom dude no she would just make like it's like that's
nice anyway what's your mom smell like tea my mom yeah you said who whose mom your mom what is your
mom she doesn't smell like tea i don't know she's she's in a retirement home now so it's kind of
like cumin oh she smells like that she smells like that well i'm gonna eat sushi if that's okay
with you guys yeah go ahead all right what kind of sushi just an avocado roll i'm not adventurous
wait really i don't like fish but i like sushi oh interesting is that why that one time we had
fish at bitcoin builders club and you were like not on board with it yeah oh interesting i told
you i thought wow how did you know that what about shellfish or shrimp or not into shrimp
nothing that's from the ocean not really what about like things you were near lakes and i grew
up so far away from the ocean yeah we can do fried catfish we can do that okay you'll eat a fried
catfish my uncle always caught carp carpy carp something like that might be carpy if it's feminine
I don't think that's how fish work
bro you don't know how fish work
they don't have feelings
tell me how fish have no
feelings if it was female I wouldn't eat it
I wouldn't do that to her
I see you have too much respect
yeah for the fish or for the
yeah for the ladies for the ladies
oh I'm like
she represents
like you can disrespect the fish
you know
well that's cool what did you guys do this week
what did you do this week
a poet i haven't seen you all week well i just came back from doing a wedding florals oh really
wedding florals i've been doing all day so i'm kind of riding off that high right now
people are getting married today yeah it always makes me super happy when i see it at church i'm
like oh that's so awesome yeah yeah it really does yeah it's the beginning and the end huh
well what else did i do um i made zine 32 oh that's cool and you can yeah we'll talk about
that i'll probably print one out while we're live wow uh keon what did you do uh you know i did i
did so many things um i went uh whale riding well righty yeah and um it's where you ride whales
did you really no i didn't do anything i was in my office for seven days straight since this last
time i was on the camera here and that's pretty much all i did i didn't really do anything else
that's well that's what's up with me how about you car what were you up to so many meetings this
week i had so many meetings just all over do you want to talk to you what are they talking about
Yeah, I just like trying to get stuff ready for January and stuff.
And things are moving.
A lot of, what do they say?
A lot of things in the, irons in the thing?
Irons in the fire.
A lot of irons in the fire.
Irons in the lobby.
Right while the iron is hot.
Yeah, a lot of that.
So we're just trying to get stuff ready for January and get everything ready.
And then you get one of those curveballs every once in a while.
And so you've got to adjust on the fly.
People hit curveballs all the time, dude.
Hey, man, that's a start of life.
You just kind of look at it as an opportunity.
But other than that, it's been a great week here on Stacker News Live.
You've never seen this crazy show before.
It's called Stacker News Live.
We cover the, what's the thing now?
Is there a new, I feel like you guys got a new tagline now.
Oh, we're trying one.
It's 24-7 Bitcoin meetup on a website.
That's terrible.
Okay.
24-7.
I know people like you don't like it.
No, it just doesn't roll off the tongue.
Why on a website part?
because I think it's
because it says Bitcoin meetup
and if it's a 24-7
Bitcoin meetup, they might think it's like physical.
Oh, like a nonstop party.
Yes, exactly.
Oh, I see.
But if we say it's on a website,
it can still be a nonstop party.
It is.
Yeah.
Anyways, if you're interested in this great show before,
check it out.
We have videos that Wumble does
and he makes clips.
And last week's most popular video
was the orange pillied one.
And apparently that one, the one about the 3D printing one.
Oh.
Surprisingly.
Yeah.
It was like so long ago.
Last week.
Anyways, other than that, check it out.
Cool.
We're going to jump into the top three stories.
And we'll be doing all of that starting right now.
The number three top story this week on Stacker News was we're number 28.
We're number 28.
This is from Jason B.
20 comments, 15,000 cents.
Keyon, what is this?
Yeah.
So I think Trump said in an interview that he wants Bitcoin or he wants crypto in the United States to be number one in crypto.
And Jason B. responded by saying the United States is incredibly behind nearly everyone.
And then he shilled basically South Africa, which is number one in terms of merchant adoption and stuff.
That's most of it.
It's number 28 based on a list of merchants.
I forget where.
I would guess it's btcmaps.org is what he's referring to.
And then he said if you remove Steak and Shake from that list, like all of their locations, the United States is like super low.
So based on that list, it's South Africa, I think Thailand.
He lists them out in here somewhere else.
That's where you can actually use Bitcoin the most.
Maybe that will change when Square actually rolls out their payment, their Bitcoin payments at terminals.
I think they're supposed to.
I don't know what's required for that to happen or whatever.
but until then it looks like based on btcmaps.org and jason b's uh post here it's really south africa
that's number one and then he shills south africa in a bunch of other ways it sounds like he might
it might not be a short stay there it sounds like he might be uh planting roots and yeah he said
i what i've he said he didn't like it yeah go for it he said he didn't like it but what i liked
about it was
or what I
like about South Africa that he mentioned was that
they go around barefoot.
He said people from
all walks of life, they'll just go into
stores barefoot and stuff and it's completely
acceptable. I thought that was pretty neat.
He said they have, oh, you can
buy a Toyota Hilux there.
It's that cargo
van or cargo truck that
everyone wants that you can't get in
the United States. You can buy those there. You can buy
basically any car there because there's none of the regulations are really followed even though
they have to because they maybe have too many of them uh even more so than we do oh and the other
thing is he said uh all of the like playgrounds are hazardous which is yeah kind of really important
if you're a child or a drunk young adult,
as I can contest to.
Yeah.
Plep, do you have anything on this?
Did you see the Trump 60 Minutes interview?
I read Jason B.'s other post this week,
which was about his wife scamming people.
Oh, yeah.
We're going to cover that, too.
So what about Trump, did you say?
Apparently he was in 60 Minutes.
I didn't know that he was on there.
Yeah.
Oh, I have no comment.
Okay.
Yeah, I agree.
I don't think America needs Bitcoin at this point.
I think most other places like Mexico and other areas,
South America, stuff like that, need it most.
I think people will keep accumulating Bitcoin in America,
but I do think there's a very small group of people
that are buying Bitcoin and most of it's corporations
and startups and stuff like that.
But that's my reality.
I don't know if that's perception.
I wonder, like I'm curious
where most of the Bitcoin ownership is.
There's probably been a report over the last few years
where someone did that, like a block research report
or a spiral report or something.
But I would guess most of the Bitcoin ownership is based in the United States,
at least held with these exchanges with all the Bitcoin in the United States.
It's kind of like we've been covering this all, I feel like all, gosh,
like all year long about them exporting dollars elsewhere
so people don't get their hands on Bitcoin and that sort of thing, game being played.
But in reality, people just want Bitcoin so they can just make the decision for themselves.
Yeah, so I don't know.
And I feel like most people already have decided on Bitcoin at this point.
And most Americans are priced out.
If I'm being completely honest, they're just priced out of Bitcoin.
So that's just kind of how I look at it.
Oh, well, they're not priced.
What do you mean they're priced out?
They can still buy sats.
You're just not seeing the same amount of,
and it could just be my reality of what I'm seeing out there.
It's just that when I talk to normal people about Bitcoin,
they feel priced out.
They're like, it's too late.
i think that's why they're trying to like rebrand bitcoin like sats is bitcoin and stuff i think
that's part of the motivation is like they know people have a unit bias and they're trying to
fight it yeah it's like you can own them you can own it bro you're not priced out you can own a
thousand bitcoins right now for a dollar yeah yeah i like the way i like the way brandon brandon
he has said it and i think that's more true is like buy 1200 in bitcoin hold for five years
and then tell me if you still believe in bitcoin um i'm obviously i'm like shrinking it down but
he kind of said a similar statement and it's true like you know when i bought bitcoin
that's exactly what i did right and then i understood oh you bought bitcoin when i first
got in yeah when i first heard about it yeah so i think that's the reality of it all is like
You know, put some money in and then hold it for five years
and then tell me if you still believe in it or not.
At least as an American, that's my advice.
I would...
Okay.
So don't feel priced out.
Don't care about the price.
Just buy it.
Yeah, like my nephews and my nieces always tell them,
like, you should be buying $2, $5 of Bitcoin every week
and not thinking about it.
But they don't listen?
or i mean crazy uncle car right crazy uncle car anyways are you the crazy uncle is that what they
call oh totally yeah yeah all the other all your brothers and sisters uh trying to think
let's make it one yeah i'm definitely the crazy one yeah for sure oh yeah i mean is that kind of
obvious right no i'm always the one that talks about crazy stuff i never met any in your family
That might be even crazier.
They might be really wacky.
Yeah, my sister comes to Austin every once in a while.
I guess I should bring her to the lab.
Filly hats.
I just don't want to, you know.
Do you remember when my mom came to the lab?
I never met him.
Like three years ago, we were down 6th Street.
Did I meet him?
I think so.
No, I don't think I was there that day.
Well, she looks just like me.
Probably not her.
Do you guys share clothes?
No.
that would have been a good picture she was a kindergarten teacher in the 90s and i really
wish i had her clothes from that era but she's moved on she didn't say i wasted like kind of
professional but like animal print on the like a vest she was like a element oh wow really like a
vest i remember those i really wish she had those clothes still but yeah i'll never get them yeah
I remember those
She was my kindergarten teacher actually
She was
Whoa
That sounds like
That sounds really cool
What is that called?
Nappetism
Anyways
Let's get on to the next story
The number two top story of the week
Is fake L2 scams
Like ARK, SPARKS, Citrio, DriveChains
And other
BoopCoins 2.0
This is from Justin Shocknet
Justin Shocknet
35 comments
10,400 cents
Keon
what is Justin talking about this week?
Yeah, he's talking about, I mean, I think most of us
who've read Justin Shocknett's comments
have seen similar sentiments that he shared elsewhere.
Basically everything but lightning, he considers a fake L2.
You can, it doesn't take much effort,
but there was like, there's a whiff of slop
in this post that I had to fight myself to get through.
But I think Justin's opinions come through
and you can understand what he's saying.
General sentiment is that a lot of these L2s
are really just repackaging trusts
and repackaging centralization and protocol labeling.
They are protocolizing things,
things that we usually don't want.
Oh,
here comes pleb dev.
Pleb dev.
Yeah.
I think Austin wants to talk about this.
I think.
Here you go.
Austin.
You want to bring that?
I haven't used it over here.
I haven't looked very closely into arc.
I don't really think we need your,
and we need your take on this,
Jana.
Yeah.
Here in frame.
I'll let,
I think Austin has opinions on this.
So I'll let him.
Well,
I mean,
save your life with ark yeah you know you might save your life by just
cussing your own bitcoin um yeah i mean i think justin justin has like a whole framework
of thinking about that he's one of the you know when someone has like they're such a unique thinker
that they have their own like analogies they have their own you know mind experiments and
frameworks for how to think about things and how to view things.
Yes.
And it's like, okay, that's pretty cool.
And I respect that.
But at the same time, like I have to get on board and like understand your framework in
order to even like have the conversation with you.
So there's a sense that like, I feel like I don't fully understand Justin's position
and argument because it's a whole framework.
But I think the, the real takeaway that I have is what I like how you put it, which is
repackaging trust.
And basically kind of in the opening, it's a very long post, but in the opening, he describes how ARK, Spark, Citrius, Stacks, you know, what are they doing?
The repackaging trust, they're basically giving you features or ways of using Bitcoin that were already possible.
But they were kind of like the gross way of using Lightning or the cheap shortcut way of using Lightning.
You know, like an easy, simple idea, if I want to give, if you're a dumb user and I want to give you lightning service, the easy, simple thing I can do is, you know, maybe be a custodian.
Or then maybe I can be a lightning service provider.
So then I'm not really custodian, but, you know, you're very much relying on me.
Or I might do like zero conf channels.
or, you know, I might do a combination of these things
and you have a backup key that lets you, you know, whatever.
You know, you can kind of combine these things,
but he's arguing that, well, that's not what,
that's not what we'll sell to investors
and that's not what we'll sell to the new savvy hipster users
that want to jump on the hot new bandwagon thing, right?
You need to come up with a whole new protocol
and a whole new branding.
Don't tell me it's zero conf channels.
Tell me it's a new paradigm for how to spend and use Bitcoin.
It's a new layer almost maybe.
And then he's kind of taking the argument that I think we've kind of heard as Bitcoiners for a while,
which is that the new form of shitcoining is a more subtle kind of shitcoining.
It's, oh, it's a layer two on Bitcoin.
So he's kind of combining, I think, and expanding on these ideas.
and I think that there's good insights in them
and they're insights worth thinking about,
which is like, for example, a good question to ask,
what is Spark or Ark or Cashew,
what are they giving me that I can't already do myself?
That's a good place to start.
And I mean, even as I ask myself that question,
my mind starts to run and I'm like,
I don't know, that's a lot.
That's a lot to kind of unpack.
What really are they giving me that I couldn't do myself with zero conf channels?
But then are we really talking about me?
No, we're not talking about me.
We're talking about, and this is what he alludes to next,
these hypothetical billions of users that need UTXOs.
They're begging for UTXOs.
They just haven't asked for them yet.
And then, of course, he's speaking to the idea of scaling that we need to scale right now.
and there's the problem of scaling of that we must do something right now but wait who's telling us
that we need to scale it's not a billion users it's like you know coincidentally these developers
that have scaling projects they're the ones that are so we should trust them definitely they know
that it's time to scale the ones building the scaling solutions for bitcoin right it's not the
fact that we would see all of the numbers around bitcoin and bitcoin payments and bitcoin usage and
fees go up. No, it's not that. It's that he or she talking head, Bitcoin scaler, tells us it's time.
So, you know, these are things that he points out that I definitely speak to me.
Is there anything that he got right in here?
Well, I mean, I'm...
That you both agree on, I guess?
No, I mean, I'm agreeing. Yeah, basically.
Yeah, no.
Sorry if I'm... I have a bit too much sarcasm.
Oh, so you're actually agreeing with all of this, he says.
Yeah, I'm repackaging Justin's argument in my own words, basically.
Oh, wow. There you go. Wow.
Okay.
But the thing is, like, I think where I would veer off from Justin, like, I don't, once again, I don't have Justin's full framework.
But I think that the very first big leap that he makes that I just can't get on the bandwagon with is that, I mean, if you scroll up to the top, it's basically that these people, okay, these are all means to solve problems or enhance UX.
these are sorry are all means not to solve problems or enhance ux but to smuggle trust
and centralization for a profit okay there's kind of a leap there okay so i believe in the
incentives there are incentives to capture the profit in bitcoin you know or and maybe in lightning
you know what little profit there is but there's a little bit of a leap that like a justin will make
to say these people are tricking you intentionally you know they know that this is a that they're
swindling you for profit and they are merchants of complexity that are trying to you know sell
you complexity yeah i go getting to motive is always tricky i'm always suspicious of that when
someone tries to tells me what's inside someone else's head yes and it's almost like i can get
behind all of the logic and even kind of like the the chip on justin's shoulder that he has i can get
behind all of that but when i look when i look and talk to these people that are working on arc spark
and citria and beyond i don't get the sense that these are people trying to trick me and trick
average users i get the sense that they're nerd sniped themselves by their own technology they
they believe in what they're doing they see very valid critiques that if they brought it up to us
it would be hard to argue against those critiques.
Yeah, you talked to Tiara,
and he actually believed what he was building, right?
Yeah, I think you were right on that.
And I mean, you know, everyone building in the L2 space,
and a lot of these people, they are Lightning developers.
They are Lightning developers that moved on.
Steven Roos, who's working on ARK,
you know, many, I don't know,
who's working on the Spark protocol side
that was involved in Lightning,
but, you know, I'm sure there's people there.
Citria, you know, eCash Kali
was a very major Lightning developer before he made Cashew, for example. So like a lot of these
people came from Lightning. A lot of them, they could, you know, they might be able to call you
out on your critiques. So that's where I introduce a lot of nuance is that even though I agree with
Justin, I like a lot of his arguments here. And I think there's so much worth thinking about.
I look at the people working on these protocols and I think to myself, like,
these are pretty smart people. These are pretty smart people. And these are deep, complicated
problems. And they've been working and thinking about these problems in a lot of cases for a long
time. I bet there's a lot that I'm not appreciating and understanding. And so that's where still my
little bit of nuance and kind of me being in the middle comes into play of like, you know,
I don't have a hard position on this. If I do have a hard position, it's that I feel that people are
moving on from lightning too fast. Lightning gives us all the primitives that we need and want.
It leaves us with some very problematic user experience issues and issues with operating at
scale. But I don't think the answer is move on and go nerd snipe everyone about the next thing.
A lot of the reason that I'm a developer is because of lightning and because of how much
lightning inspired me and even though i play in the realms of nostor and e-cash and arc and and
stacks back in the day um i'm not ready to move on to lightning the mission of lightning is not over
i was a stack sir yes there's there's a lot of bitcoin lightning devs actually that were in the
stacks community in like 2018 19 they had some crazy bounty programs i wish i was a better dev
back in the back in the day yep but anyway that's my that's my brain dump on all this stuff what do
you think i think that's fair i don't actually i haven't looked too deeply into arc or any of
these things i vaguely understand spark um but i don't so i can't i can't argue with a technical
like anything that stems from a technical argument with the with with these things but i suspect i
I think the motive is right.
We were, it was Barack and Tierra were at the Sixth Street location working on the ARC spec,
the Sixth Street location of Pub Lab working on the ARC spec back in like 2022.
And what Barack said to me was like, I'm obsessed with scaling.
I'm obsessed.
That's what he said.
That sounds like such a Barack thing to say.
That's how he described what he was doing to me.
He's like, I'm obsessed with scaling.
so I'm going to try to figure out a new way to scale Bitcoin.
And so I think that's the motive.
When you're an engineer, it's hard to scale things
and so you're attracted to that.
That's the Everest of any kind of project.
So that's why you have a lot of engineers going after that.
Surely there are some people in it for profit
and trying to make money from it.
And I think if what these projects do
and what I think a lot of them claim is that they kind of have the same like trust assumptions and same assumption like trust assumptions and things i know justin would would argue against that but they have the same trust assumptions maybe as lightning but are like repackaging it and another type of um like way
of interacting with it i think that might be good either that might solve some of the problems that
we know lightning has with with user experience and maybe maybe that maybe it is just we just need
slightly different trade-offs in the way we interact with Lightning to make it something
that people want to use. I was having an argument in a Stacker News thread, I think a week ago,
with the guys from Rizful. And they're like, well, if that's true about Spark,
why don't people just use PayPal? And I'm like, yeah. That's what Spark's trying to do. They're
trying to provide people with a PayPal-like experience, but without KYC and with unilateral
exits that's basically what they're trying to do that's what all these people are trying to do
with these l2 these fake l2s that's what because that's what people want paypal paypal is clearly
wait i don't understand what it's succeeded now i know i know like it it has a promise as a promise
of removing the bad parts of paypal which is where you can get like censored and stuff like that i'm
not saying spark actually achieves that but i think that's what what they're going towards that's like
what they're that's what they want to build so uh-huh yeah yeah and this is where like also
scale i think the scale bros versus i don't know what you would call like maybe my side or
my side of things where i'm like a sovereignty bro like i'm more interested in the sovereign
primitives of a thing first then the scale because it's not worth i don't want to scale a turd and
for me, a turd is anything that, you know, gives me similar guarantees of Fortnite, V-Bucks, or
PayPal, or, you know, whatever, just some stupid payment network that already exists. That's not
interesting to me. What would be interesting is if you had a really sovereign primitive that can
actually give me something, back to what I was saying earlier, what does this thing give me,
that gives me something that I can't otherwise get, or guarantees, or privacy, or something like
that. And maybe there's a trade-off involved. And, you know, hey, speaking to eCash, this was my big
defense of eCash because I was working on an eCash wallet last year and having a lot of
argumentative conversations with people trying to defend where you might want to use eCash and where
it is a good solution, where it actually has a tangible benefit worth trading off if you don't
need this other benefit you know self-custody mainly yeah right honestly um and you know and
so yeah there's there's always trade-offs but for me like as a sovereign bro uh i'm gonna say
to the scale bro like yeah your scale's cool but like meta has scale and paypal and cash app has
scale like where what are you trading for scale yeah what are you trading for scale um and one
thing I want to say about your like repackaging argument I do agree that it's not that repackaging
lightning or taking the existing you know feature set of lightning and formatting it in some kind of
package that's a bad thing inherently like no that can be a good thing but another another place that
I push back against you know the slew of l2 l3s side chains is they're they're taking it's already
difficult enough to understand what your, I guess, property rights are in Bitcoin. You know,
what are your property rights? How do I think about this? How do I custody this across time?
When I use this or this service or this or this wallet, what risk am I exposing myself to?
Right? That's hard enough in Bitcoin. Then we go into lightning, right? And we've been educating
ourselves as plebs on lightning. We've been educating ourselves for a good six or seven
years now and uh you know still figuring things out in a lot of ways and still getting things
wrong in a lot of ways but none of these solutions are simplifying that scenario they're adding way
more complexity on top of a thing that we already don't understand lightning so for me it's like
even if your solution is is a silver bullet when it comes to trade-offs you're adding more
complexity on top of what the user already doesn't understand. So it's like, if the user has no way
of vetting or engaging with this in a truly sovereign way, then already we're throwing the
baby out with the bathwater. And so that's another thing I push back on is like, we're already
probably in the realm of too much complexity with lightning. I argue people love to say Bitcoin
simple. I like to, I don't think Bitcoin is simple because when you have to start explaining how it
works it's not fucking simple so and and these are questions that involve you your very understanding
of your property rights on bitcoin so you know hey sovereign sovereign bros this is what we have
to deal with uh is sitting with the same hard problems for a long time and trying to find the
right set of trade-offs the scale bros will always want to move on and just like go conquer the world
And, you know, that's inherent with the archetypes.
But I think Justin is making a good sovereign Maxi argument here,
I think, against the scale bros.
Very nice.
Hey, give me a high five, Austin.
Good rant.
Your wife wants a high five.
Hey, give me a high five.
Right here, right here.
Right there.
You have to reach.
There you go.
There it is.
Smack.
All right, cool.
There we go.
Jenny, get any of you on?
No.
Does he ever go on these at home and you're just like?
Yeah, but I agree.
You're like, sounds about right?
Yeah.
I kind of said the same thing to the lady at Bitcoin conference
after she was like, we need to abandon lightning
because it won't scale.
Wait, who said that?
Somebody from...
Oh, like open source stage?
Yeah, and she was with like...
Oh, MIT.
MIT?
MIT, yeah.
And it's also like, I think when you start to, you know,
Justin is throwing some heat in this post, right?
He's throwing some strong words.
This is what you unlock inside of plebs
when you're like, you know,
you start out your argument and you're like, well,
so lightning is clearly a failure that doesn't scale.
It's like, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
Lightning has scaled just fine for me.
And it's been just a great success for me.
So who is it failing for?
You know, users that don't even understand
nor want to leverage their property rights on Bitcoin.
Oh, okay.
Why aren't they using Fortnite?
You know, why aren't they using something
that's better suited for this so it just once again it comes to like apply like where you're
applying these arguments and then uh you know i guess where it starts that's fine though with
people talking on stage about stuff like that but where it starts to disturb me is to see the
the average pleb start to accept that you know yeah lightning is just not viable lightning is
i'll never be able to run a lightning node and you know i'm probably for my everyday zaps and my
usage on Stacker News and all of that, I'm probably just going to be using eCash or a
custodial Lightning wallet. And it's like, no, that's not, you know, that's not where we want
to see the space going. We want to see people inspired, feeling that they can be sovereign
Bitcoiners and they can run their own Swiss bank in the cloud and figure it out and understand it
and not need to trust the operators. I don't need an operator. I'm a Bitcoiner. I'm a pleb.
and that's like more of the mindset I want to see
but instead I see
a bunch of plebs getting nerd sniped
by tech that they don't even really
understand
and I'll stop talking about it
powerful
powerful message
thanks Austin
yeah it was
a good one
Keon
are you surprised that he had such a poignant
no I had some indication earlier
he was sacking out here
with his
sack and he was beating around
his sack out here.
I've never seen such a thing.
He was just smacking his sack around
out here as he does look at it.
He's nice. He's in the background
here behind the screen. You guys can't
see it, but he's just beating his sack up.
So he's out here and then he was like, yeah, I'm going to get into
this Justin ShockNet post
or are you guys going to get into this Justin
ShockNet post? And then you're
I don't remember what else was said, but I was like, oh, I know Austin's got some takes.
Interesting.
It was a return to the mic.
Cool.
We're going to jump into the number one top story of the week.
Invoice your customers are prepared to get scammed by my wife.
This is from Jason B.
Another one.
19 comments, 13,300 sats.
Keyon or Pleppo.
What's this?
I think you know probably.
Yeah, you read this one.
Yep.
You should probably write it for the zine.
Well, I would just like from here, I'd like to point out.
So there were three top posts this week for Stacker News Live, and two of them were Jason B's.
Shooter, shoot.
He's shooting.
He's making it.
That's awesome.
And we're glad to hear everything you're doing out there, Jason B.
So actually, this is a really, I mean, this is another good, like, if you're using lightning,
you should probably read this post in case you're, like, not being careful because his wife accidentally found this way to scam somebody.
Really?
So he gets into it further down.
Okay.
The actual.
Oh, the problem, right?
Yeah.
Well, the merchant accepted a lightning payment via, I think, a lightning address.
It's basically like a static code.
And the way that the merchant confirms that you've paid is you show them your phone.
Oh.
Yeah.
And so.
Oh, they pay it.
Yeah.
Hey, I paid.
Here's a green check.
It's called a Satoshi green screen.
Yeah, it was a green screen.
And it says, in this case, it was 100 rand, I think, is what they call their money there.
And his wife only paid 100 sats.
But the merchant didn't really check the unit or anything and just kind of said, great.
Just saw the green check.
But 100 rand is like 5,000 sats.
So she underpaid by quite a bit.
And then she later, she realized it and she gave him the rest of the money.
but um so he gives a good explanation about like using a lightning address for payments you should
send an invoice yes if you are a merchant you want to display an invoice and then so you can confirm
on your end that it was paid i mean the merchant could have also looked at his own phone right
whatever wallet is using to receive the lightning payment too and been like oh that's not enough
right um but i think there's it's like a high trust environment too is the other thing he
indicates but it's a nice point about it is an honest mistake too yeah it was his wife isn't
actually a scammer i mean maybe she is and in this case it sounds like she's maybe learned her
learned her mistakes and refunded the money um have you ever been in this situation before i was
just trying to think um i don't think so uh i've used phoenix a lot for um just like transacting
in person like selling stuff um and that's creating an invoice so i pretty much do that
every time i feel like when i used to use lnurl back in the day keon like 21 22 yeah i ran into
this problem a lot like people would say oh i paid you and i would be like no you did it oh yeah
lnurl i remember there was a i don't want to say who it was but there was a famous bitcoin author
who was here at Bitcoin Commons back when it was called that.
And he was selling his book.
And he printed out Bolt 11 invoices on a sheet of paper.
And they're one-time use of Bolt 11.
And so someone paid it.
And then everyone else who came up and tried to pay it really couldn't pay it.
But I think they still told them that they paid it.
And then they ended up giving out a bunch of books for free.
I heard.
yeah that's a bummer have i ever done anything like that i don't think i've ever done anything
like that to be honest yeah so that's cool but too bad yeah i think i think that's back to the other
back to the other post i think i think lightning is lightning scales in a way that is sort of
orthogonal or quite different than the way that most people interact with on chain so a lot like
If you encounter a lot of older Bitcoiners, OGs, like pre-2020 Bitcoiners, most of them hate Lightning because the UX is so different.
But they're super comfortable with on-chain.
And so I think that's another reason why a lot of these guys like ARK is because the UX is more similar to on-chain UX because it's sort of side-chain-y, sort of.
You have UTXOs, but they call them VTXOs.
um and so yeah the ux for lightning is tricky uh it's still early i mean it'll get there i'm not
worried about lightning it's um it's fantastic but whenever i can like successfully like
run like do the whole flow for a payment in front of somebody and it's just fine and it works
it makes me feel like a wizard that's cool maybe you are wouldn't that be weren't you a witch though
I mean, you're definitely more...
Female wizards.
Yeah.
You're definitely more technical than you've ever been, I would say, for sure, since I've
known you.
Yeah, more than I've ever been, that's true.
Yeah.
Because I learn every day.
And then you're compounding that.
You just got to keep learning.
Yeah, I think so.
I think that's the most important thing is just keep studying.
What's that?
Keep hanging around people that are smarter than you.
What's that?
That sort of thing.
The more you know.
That's what that is?
Yeah.
It was a popular thing in the 90s where they would do a campaign about learning.
Do you guys know this one?
Square.
Oh, is that a rainbow?
Reading rainbow?
Yeah.
Well, it's SpongeBob.
Imagination.
No.
Okay.
That must be a Gen Z thing.
I'm not Gen Z.
Oh, you're not?
No.
She's just outside the age?
I am.
Oh, interesting.
I'm ageless.
There you go.
That's all the top stories this week.
I'm a wizard.
Looks like there's more stuff in the comments.
You guys should check it out.
It looks like Darth posted some stuff and Jason B posted some stuff that merchants could use.
Definitely check it out.
We're going to jump into our posts now.
First, AI Bitcoin.
There was no optimism.
Didn't do a weekly one.
Optimism is sick, I guess.
Oh, no.
Hopefully it's okay.
Get well soon.
Optimism.
And have optimism for getting well.
Yeah.
I just wanted to share this because I think this is really interesting.
that was in the AI territory.
We were talking about the copyright burdens with LLMs,
and it's a deep dive, obviously.
I'm not going to go through all this,
but what I did find kind of interesting
is while all this is going on,
talking about where does the copyright happen
and when does it take place?
Does it take place at the time of the copyright
when it's like downstream or upstream?
Or like, is there some financial engineering
that has to happen for the distributor
or the owner of the copyright?
I know we've talked about this key on in the past
where you're like, it's not gonna be able to do it.
They're scraping.
And so this week, Bloomberg's been releasing
a ton of videos that I've been trying to just watch them all
because there's just so much alpha in there.
And they've been talking to a lot of media companies
about this.
And one particular video,
hopefully we don't get this like blocked,
is from Warner Music's new CEO
talking about like AI
and about copyright and stuff like this.
And I think it's fascinating
for the Snackers to hear,
but check it out.
Our strategy around this is three L's.
License, legislate, and litigate.
In that order, preferably.
Doesn't always happen that way.
Sometimes, you know, they get mixed up.
But those three are important.
We always prefer to license
if we can set up the right...
See, Brian Lipbaum?
And then of course licensing is amazing.
So the music industry probably shining, eh?
A little lip station.
Lip station is important because if you don't have the right construct, then it's really
hard to do licensing agreements.
And litigators, everything else fits.
So but sometimes it's upside down.
Lips are looking wet, Dick.
So what, in terms of licensing, what does a good AI licensing deal look like?
So what?
What is most important to a company like this?
What are you going to do about it?
The best way to think about it is, well, you have to think about a couple things.
One, which is you have to think about the input and then you think about the outputs.
On the input side, it's for training.
We maintain that if you want to train on our content, you have to license it, which is
a source of our lawsuits, then you have to license it.
And it seems like most of the AI companies, whether it's pseudo-media or open AI, do not
feel that way.
Yeah, we'll see how it works out.
that is the point but we believe that it is absolutely and we've maintained that that is the right way forward.
So that's on the input side. On the output side there's two different types. One when the music is sort of generic so it's not recognizable by any artist.
There's no name, likeness and voice implicate in any way so it's more like generic music. But it's based on training on our content.
So for us, that's a new revenue stream.
Then there's the type of music that implicates
the initial icon and voice, and that is very much similar to how
UGC worked, and I think there are constructs for it, obviously,
to change a little bit, but we can copy a lot of that.
And so you think that AI music rather than replace,
I mean, you think that AI will expand the pie rather than
replacing some of what you already have?
people are choosing to listen to AI music doesn't mean they're not listening to editing so I won't
play the whole thing but uh it's fascinating the way he he talks about like AI and about how they
see it um what's and why this is important is because like we've we've been covering like the
music apps and we've been playing them on the show and stuff and as you know Keon like just
music's always the first first technology through the door that gets all the bullets I know that's
what you say about music i believe that music is always the first thing through the door that
takes all the bullets and plays plays a copyright game with new technology and um you can tell he's
just like totally this is what we're gonna do this is a strategy let's go uh what's fascinating
about it did you see the second part that he said that even the image the likeness and the thing
about that that they also want to double dip on that too as well even on the output i was distracted
by his lips okay yeah i thought that was fascinating so he's like basically saying
that now we're not only we're going to grab the licensing for the input um but we're going to grab
the output licensing as well so he's basically calling them their artists at the as well too
so it's like wow it's um yeah well it's changing huh well it's just fascinating that uh i want to
see how it plays out this is one to watch yeah pretty cool i suspect this paper has to do with
the paywalls and everything it looks like they're they're based they're basically contending that
we can extract all the knowledge from these scholarly texts which are often behind paywalls
often you have to pay very expensive journal subscription fees to get access to this information
But if we feed it into AI and it just takes the insights out of the paper, like the scientific factual stuff out, then there's maybe no copyright litigation that you have to be concerned about if you do it that way.
It's kind of cool.
What's the guy who?
Yeah, if you put his framework to place then.
Aaron Schwartz type of thing.
Well, if you put his framework to place, then you're paying in perpetuity on the other side of that, on the output, irregardless because you have to pay in on the input.
If you're thinking of the framework that that guy is saying, which is kind of fascinating because I never thought of it like that.
I was shocked.
But all I'm saying is there's a ton of stuff that's being talked about right now in Bloomberg.
Check out the YouTube channel because it's like they're all talking about AI.
It's like the music industry, the movie industry, like everything.
So I haven't finished all the videos yet,
but I'm finding it really fascinating.
You got any thoughts?
Pleb poet, you're a creative person.
When you hear something like this coming from a edit from a...
Yeah, what if we create pleb AI by poet AI?
What do you think about this when you...
Are you got a gummy stuck in your mouth?
That's what it makes me do.
Oh, you're bored?
A little bit.
Yeah.
But what was the end of your question?
I guess like what do you think about as a creative person?
do you get worried that people are going to
take your stuff and then sell it
and then repurpose it?
Are you going to sue when someone creates stuff?
Would you get upset if somebody made a
I don't know, like a poet AI
and took all your poets, all your zines, all your stuff
took your name, likeness and everything
put all that in a thing and then on the output side
made a ton of money on your thing
would you be like yo um would you be kind of like if my plan doesn't work out and i don't have any
money then i'll be mad but if i'm cooling and i have my ranch and stuff then i'll be like
all right so if you're like you're like drake you're like not worried i'm not really worried
but i mean i don't like i don't like ai i'm not gonna use it yeah for sure as long as i can
um cool anyways but it is learning about me isn't it no doubt it will use you yeah it'll use me
and i don't consent to it so yeah we are gonna fight probably someday the other thing i wanted
to bring up uh was this is from uh the same we're talking about yeah bitcoin stuff so this is the
other one is from tony uh zero comments uh got a lot that 300 sets uh the ai diffusion report so
this came out um and this is a graph of a sort keon what do you think about this graph i can't
really see the graph because it's covered um but other people here let me uh you can you can
knock me out for a second real quick yeah knock me out oh no she's gone is she still there though
what do you think about that and then you can i can't remove us because we're stuck on there
unfortunately yeah uh okay so yeah so artificial intelligence is uh has a lot of users basically
is what it's saying yeah it's growing fast the adoption rate is high bitcoins is like probably
i mean people claim it's like the internet so it's like that slow um and it does look the internet
That looks really slow compared to AI, even smartphones.
Hey.
But, I mean, on this side, it says 25 years.
This bottom line is 25 years.
Okay.
That's pretty scary, man.
Like, look at it.
So, right here, you can see it.
That's kind of scary.
Like, 25 years, and they're already at 40%.
That's wild.
And we're like, yeah, we haven't even got to the robotics stuff yet.
I would guess it's going to.
Or the spatial computing stuff yet.
It's going to slow down.
I would guess it's not going to completely saturate.
You think it's going to saturate?
No, I think it's going to go parabolic.
It looks like, what is that?
Does that rate cell phones look like they kind of just went straight up once they started climbing?
I feel like the diffusion of AI stuff might be taper.
Might be more like the smartphone where you have a dramatic early rise.
and then so the other thing that maybe good goes to that is this so the whole world hasn't adopted
yet so that's that's one thing who's the biggest adopter uh looks like it's is that canada really
um the darker blue is better yeah so ireland it looks like norway it's probably because of data
data centers john still human did we meet the real john or it probably just data centers because it all the way up north oh okay yeah um and then yeah it looks like maybe friends
what are those bros doing yeah that's kind of interesting right
building something real talk building something um and then it looks like we have what's this one
over here on the far right what's that it's not cuba is it no what's this one over here called
this one now according to uh that's australia there
it's uh it's australia but there's like where cuba is there's like a blue spot and i don't know
if that's actually cuba because cuba looks red but what's on the other side of cuba i feel like
jamaica is that blue yeah okay could be costa rica who knows anyways costa rica's on an island
am i supposed to say cuba or cuba
I don't know.
I'm not kidding.
Gooba.
I like that.
Depends on where you are in the United States.
But are you guys not concerned with this?
Are you just not?
Well, what's the concern?
I mean, I'm concerned.
Are you concerned that look at this graph?
That's a troubling graph and exciting at the same time.
Because it's moving so fast?
Maybe I'm a guy and I like numbers and I like seeing things go up to the right.
Maybe that's why I'm really excited about this.
Up to the left, it's growing so fast.
It's not even a Jake.
Look at this, Austin.
Austin will appreciate this.
The user adoption for artificial intelligence is all the way.
And we're not even at 25 years yet.
It's almost artificial.
Whoa.
It's almost artificial how fast it's growing.
It's like number of like global consumers.
Knowledge units.
Yeah.
Adult saturation.
What?
Go back to that chart.
Is Bitcoin on the chart?
No.
yeah and bitcoin's like way slower adoption yeah well people claim it's people claim it's like the
internet yeah it follows the internet curve the thing is like people like to claim it's like the
same thing as the lightning network growth but they look at not number of users number of individual
people with brains and souls but they look at like oh number of servers yeah number of nodes
on the network monetary value yeah yeah which is cool i mean but i mean yeah you you think then
like the way that you get this number for artificial intelligence usage is like every query
that any person makes but users can mean so many things right like we want a real metric like how
many what's the metric how many people are dating artificial intelligence oh yeah i would love to
that that's the graph i want to see that's real yeah i mean what is this based off of like every
shout out to those b re release their anonymized user numbers i don't know but
i thought it was fast this crap
they just get it tattooed yeah
and then you can like update it every year all right well anyways right in the center of your chest
cool that's um that's all the ai stories we're gonna get into wumbles picks wumbles picks
wumbles wumbles wumbles wumbles wumbles wumbles wumbles picks picks wumbles picks this week wumbles
wumbles he doesn't even wumble wumble wumble wants us wumble wants us what i would like you
to discuss this. Wumble wants us to talk about
the B-I-T-C-H-A-T
tutorial demo that
BTC Sessions did. Look who it is.
Oh.
Dude, are they brothers?
What do you mean? Do they look alike?
Yeah, they look pretty close.
I didn't know that.
Have you seen this?
No.
Yes, I watched the video, actually. Oh, you did watch the video?
Yeah, I did it at 2x speed.
And so I got
it pretty good. I skimmed the video,
to be honest. I haven't actually downloaded
bitchat yet have you no i have my own thoughts i have my own thoughts i you know i'll say it but
you go first oh okay yeah well uh so for anyone that doesn't know what bitchat is it's basically
a chat app that allows you to communicate via bluetooth and you can like transitively communicate
via bluetooth but via other people with the bitchat app open on their phone or i think just on their
phone but like if car had if car had bit chatted on iphone and i did and so did uh this one over
here uh car could send a message via my phone over bluetooth to uh jana and then uh he wouldn't need
a direct connection to jana look at her face that face was priced you upset her with the ai stuff
No, she was so bewildered by this stupid app.
But keep going.
This is great.
Anyway, I think.
I like it.
I think the app is pretty cool.
It's got.
No, it looks cool.
It looks cool.
It's tasteful.
I think it's completely.
I think the app is so dumb.
But that's what's nice about it.
It's so dumb.
You can just start using it.
Yeah.
So we're seeing.
We're seeing.
This app makes no sense.
Oh, OK.
Well, you can share your take.
I just wanted to explain a little bit.
All right.
Keep going.
how it works. And I think that Wumbo has picked this so we can. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry.
Yeah. I'm sorry. Wumble. I shot too early. It was developed a Dorsey's motivation for doing this
was, I guess, during protests and stuff, they shut down cell towers and things and the internet
so that people can't really communicate. But if you're at a protest, you're in close proximity to
a lot of people. So you could use your device, which has a Bluetooth antenna to communicate with
other people without using the internet. And you can extend that range further, like through a very
large crowd over a long distance if the density is high enough and everyone is using the app there.
So you can maintain comms without the internet in situations like this. Disasters like natural
disasters is another use case for this where things go down, not because there's an oppressor,
but because, well, the nature is oppressing you. Additionally, so it has a bunch of features around
that but additionally it also lets you communicate over the internet via no star um so you can use
no surrealize uh to communicate with people who like like sort of like a normal chat app
um when you have access to the internet you can communicate with people remotely
yet still there's uh ui and ux around um geography so you can like kind of see you can tell people
where you are and if they're near you,
you can communicate with them even if you're not in Bluetooth range.
And I think Wombo had a few questions about this, which I...
Wombo's picks.
I do not.
Are you trying it right now?
Yeah, I'm doing it.
Oh, cool.
There you go.
It's not going to anybody.
So Wombo asks, could BitChat grow to replace normal SMS?
I think, you know, not really any more than like any alternative to SMS could grow to replace SMS.
It's like signal could signal replace SMS, maybe.
But I think SMS will always have a place like feature phones, like the cheapest of phones, dumb phones.
They're using SMS. These protocols are like baked into like the heart at the hardware level of a lot of cell tower technology.
and so i imagine sms won't go away uh and um but it's an alternative to sms just like signal is
an alternative to sms or i message or what like google talk or whatever google does i think it'll
also be good at conferences to use because inside conference halls you get a lot of signal as we
learned from interruption david bailey he likes to deprive open source developers of internet
as a way of showing them who's boss.
Wow.
Look at that.
I'm pretty sure that's...
Am I rubbing off on you?
I'm kidding.
No, you're not.
David Bailey, please send me some Naka
to my E-Trade account.
We're just pissing everybody off
in this particular post, aren't we?
Okay, and then...
Did I interrupt you?
I'm sorry.
I did.
No, go for it.
Pepo, what'd you think about it
in your first minute using it?
Well, we used it in Design Club like a couple months ago.
How was it?
It was really fun when there's actual people around you using it.
Oh, wow.
Amazing.
And you see it works like magic, like Bluetooth.
Also, does anybody understand how Bluetooth works?
Yeah, it's just a radio.
Yeah.
It's been using itself as a kid.
A particular frequency.
It's amazing.
Radio wave.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's how Wi-Fi works.
It's how so many things work.
You know what my first Bluetooth device was, Keon?
What?
I used to write a blog when I was a kid.
And I convinced HP to send me a portable Bluetooth printer.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I had like a Nokia 3650 because it had Bluetooth on there.
And then I was able to print from my phone.
I've been thinking of getting one of those Polaroid printers.
What did you print?
Yeah.
Probably some stupid message my girlfriend sent me or something.
But anyway, that was like super dorky stuff.
Was you like sexting?
Or was it even sexting?
he was
zapping
no
I was using
bluetooth the way
it was intended
for communicating
to other devices
yeah
with the means
of transporting
stuff
oh yeah
means of transport
yeah
anyways
pretty cool stuff
there was another
well Wombo has
other questions
for Wombo's
picks Wombo
I would like
you to have
these questions
we can just
answer the questions
I think that
helps me structure
talking about them
is this only good
for high threat
environments
protesting
any day-to-day uses.
I think it's mostly good for high-threat environments.
And so if I were working on the app,
I wouldn't even bother trying to adapt it
for other use cases.
I think that's where this app gets actually really confusing
is that I can go on the internet and use it.
But conferences.
Yeah, but no, I don't want it to have Wi-Fi connectivity.
I don't want it to try to be signal,
but you can also use Bluetooth with it.
I just want it to do Bluetooth.
This is the app I have in case of an urgency type situation.
I like that better.
But yeah, I think you can probably imagine them becoming a sort of signal competitor with Bluetooth or like white noise, adding this kind of feature to it or them adapting white noise's library for encrypted messaging.
It's very, very distant.
It's too early to say what it will become.
What if users got paid in Sats to forward messages?
Would people run like BitChat relays?
Yeah, maybe they would.
I think that'd be kind of cool.
Although I don't think people like using Bitcoin or spending it.
So that's maybe the biggest problem with that.
But yes, if you can design a system with incentives and people actually use it, then yeah, you can expect the network to.
grow as a result of having incentives grow.
What would that, oh, that's it.
I think those are all of Wombo's questions.
Hold on.
Wombo's picks.
Wombo's picks, yeah.
That's great.
Put Carr to sleep.
He's, Carr isn't a big fan of Dorsey.
I don't know if you guys.
No, no, I'm a big fan of him.
I mean.
Like Bailey Dorsey.
Oh, I'm a big fan of him.
I just think, like, go ahead, go ahead, Plotpoet.
I'm sorry.
Plotpoet's got a picture.
She's trying to say something for the longest time, and I keep it.
She still has a locker somehow.
She's like full adult, but she still has a locker with a picture of Dorsey.
I'm more of a Dorsey fan than anybody else here,
and that's all that you were demonstrating,
so thank you for saying it for me.
Yeah, but do you use his music?
Do you use Tidal?
I don't use Tidal.
Oh, how big of a fan are you if you don't use Tidal?
yeah probably
probably not high up on the list of biggest fans
yeah silence says it all so you have nothing then yep all right well i kind of wanted to say
something oh you should go for it now now one of those picks is over we cut we cut it already we
It seems like no one wants me to give my opinion because they're afraid to make Dorsey upset, which is kind of weird.
I want you to have like a well-rounded opinion, though.
I'd like to make it.
That's like worth hearing.
I think I actually do, though.
Oh, let's do it.
Let's make Dorsey upset.
I think the video.
I'm not trying to make him upset.
Just constructive criticism.
I think the video is amazing.
I think BTC Sessions did an amazing job.
I think when you're thinking adversarily about these types of apps, you're not going to go to your phone.
In a crisis scenario, you're going to stick to what works best.
And that's like ham radio.
That's like walkie talkies and stuff like that.
And on Amazon, you can get one for like 35 bucks that has a ham radio built in.
And in a crisis scenario, you're going to have one basically, for Bitcoiners speak, you have one node disseminating the information to everybody in a group.
And you only need one person with that type of device.
And then that information gets sent across everybody, right?
And that's the only reason to use something like this.
I think the conference stuff doesn't make sense.
You can just use Signal.
All the other stuff doesn't make sense.
But the internet is there.
So for me, the only thing when I see something like this, it just, it screams, it's very spooky.
Because it just requires installs.
It requires all this kind of stuff.
and it just kind of just it's a very spooky type of app for me and i i'm just thinking always
adversarily especially in these type of scenarios where it's like download this app share your
location with all this and just like it's just super spooky and that's why when i saw this i was
like no go not touching it and i don't talk about this stuff i would have never brought this up i
would have never said anything ever about it if you would ask me an opinion i wouldn't have told
you the only reason i'm bringing it up is because wumble brought it up and that's my take on it
okay can i have another one take yeah anyway but uh yeah usually only talk about things i like
that are worth talking about but if something's not worth talking about i won't bring it up
one more picks i just like that about you all right we're gonna get to the next one the next
one is uh yeah man we're gonna keep it going i guess these are my picks um this week we had a
some really good alpha and this got shared in the saloon and i just wanted to get kaon's thoughts on
it did you see this one this was from jb55 another noster take he said there's a large
i think he was trying to say monetary investment in the space in centralized noster and then he
put in quotations primal and centralized bitcoin and he put in quotations cashew
criticizing any of these question mark good luck getting a grant or invited to the next prestigious
event nostril was more fun when it was being subverted by money and influence peddling
unfortunately they can't buy me or shut me up i couldn't give more of a plank about money or
influence this is from jb55 um kian you got any thoughts on this um do i have thoughts on it uh
I mean, I think there is like anointed people in Bitcoin and anointed projects in Bitcoin.
And if you're not on the inside, you can't tell that there's an anointing process and that things are maybe not treated equally.
and I would say JB is bringing attention,
trying to like giving outsiders
maybe a taste of what's on the inside.
And so it's like a legitimate critique.
I'd be upset if I were JB, I think.
Is he think he's just talking about Nostra?
Is he talking about Nostra and Bitcoin?
Because to me, it seems like he's just talking about Nostra.
I think he's talking about OpenSats.
Oh, wow.
I think that's really what it's like.
Oh, wow.
Didn't you comment on this?
uh i did and i'm sharing mostly my uh what i shared in my comment um but uh yeah i think i
think it's i think it's fair he probably does feel uh marginalized and he was on on you know
on noster using noster brought dorsi to noster if um if it wasn't for domus maybe that wouldn't
have happened at all so that's kind of what when i saw this it was like because i don't really go
on nostr as they say like i'll go on and i'll use note decks i've been using note deck because i
really love it i really think that that's the next iteration for nostr is just like kind of
i don't know if he's doing gun curation on there i don't know what the like i haven't talked to him
but i really love the way he's doing note deck to me that feels like the future of nostr
when i look at it see this is where i say good things can i'm not criticizing it because i
actually believe this what it's bitch had on it and then we'll have that conversation but what i'm
saying is like i when i see note deck to me that looks like a future like a really futuristic
version of nostr it's like it has the tellings of it all and um he's the reason why i got into
nostr like i heard about damas i got him on like thriller when i was doing thriller back then
and then almost 2013 2000 no this is 21 or no 22 i'm just and then like and then like almost
immediately after that i was in i was using damas and like a big fan of what william was doing and
talking to all you guys about what william was doing and we had a lot of early nostr meetups
yeah and it was all because of it was all because of william like it was because he got me excited
about what nostr could be it wasn't because of all these other people it was william and so um i i
don't think people realize that like you know when you have somebody of this caliber building on your
protocol like you should take these considerations very seriously like or what he's saying very
seriously here because you know this to me when i see something when i and i know i don't know i
know devs but i hang around with a lot of des and a lot of founders when i see this type of
statement and it's sent out publicly like somebody should go talk to them and like see if
everything's okay because like this is somebody that's about to eject this what that looks like
to me um it's very concerning because like you don't want him to eject from nostril you don't
want him to yes i hope not but like you don't want him to do that so like if whoever's out there
listening to this like you should go see how he's doing because this is like if he's very frustrated
by this like there's probably a dozen hundreds of other people that are super frustrated by this
and i don't know how to fix it i'm not trying to say how to fix it i'm just saying like take this
seriously. That's what I would say. I wonder if the, you know, like, I don't know, I don't know
exactly who he's talking about or what he means by monetary investment, but I wonder if the people
who he is talking about, how they would interpret this criticism, whether they would think it's
valid or he's just like kind of imagining things. I think, I think my sense of, of what he means,
those people think that they're doing, that they're not, they're not actually doing anything
wrong. Um, and there is no, there is no, you know, the conflict that he's kind of alluding to,
it doesn't exist because they don't, they haven't admitted to themselves that it does. And so
therefore like JB is just hallucinating. Um, I don't know though. Uh, does that form a gas
lining though? You think? I think they've gaslit themselves. I think it's a problem. That's a
problem with incentives that's the problem with like who you take your money from who you give it
to you take equity in a company you're fucked you have no objectivity about them anymore um you have
to be really careful about uh incentives because you will trick yourself into believing you're a
good person even if you do really heinous things um but even like even just like marginally heinous
things like playing favorites and stuff um that's certainly that's certainly something that happens
when you have it's just a bummer to see i mean he's like one of the main reasons why i even got
into nostr and we talked about it on the dvd like the dvd that we have we covered like it's this is
one of the clips that we talked about with william and stuff and it's kind of like interesting to see
like from that long ago um to now and like where it's come to and to me these days when i look at
nostr i don't even see it anymore as a um as what it used to be i kind of just see it as apps now
like i see primal i see runster i see shopster i see wave lake i see uh fountain i guess and um
and domus and then amethyst like i just see apps now i don't see it as a but maybe i'm just not
looking at it closely like i was before does that make sense it does make sense the other thing i
want to say though is i think i can see a lot of uh people in bitcoin right now they're kind of
blowing off or like the top is blowing off like steam i think around the core knots thing so i
think that's mostly what this is jb will go i've seen jb we've seen we've covered jb like popping
off a couple times or really remember like i think it was like probably roughly a year ago where he
was like i might quit damas um and we i think there was a top story and then that was a big deal
We see that a lot of people are going after Callie right now.
Callie's going after other people.
What are they going after him for?
Someone attacked his MEN implementation because it had a rate limit bug in it.
And so he's been fighting about that.
And I think it's just the point.
We've hit an emotional peak, and we're maybe cycling back again.
What do you think about all this?
Anyone on BitChat there, FlubPoet?
Nobody's on BitChat.
I bet you they're on a ham radio, though, if you do that.
That's what we should do.
We need someone dedicated here every week just on BitChat waiting for people.
You'll be waiting 20 years.
Go ahead.
I just think, yeah, the top is blowing off emotionally.
Sorry. Yeah.
When you think of Nostra, what do you use on Nostra?
Are you on Nostra? Do you use Nostra? Not so much anymore.
Why? Why? I just get confused. About what?
Just how to use it. Oh, really? So you don't even use the social apps on Nostra
anymore? No. None of them? Not even Dama's? No.
Wow. What turned you off about it? Just like
getting on there and just like seeing people say the same thing every day
what is that just about nostre it's just insular
stacker news is kind of like that too but
you make it you can you i don't know i have a better time
over here stacker news is kind of a nostre client but i have a better so you have a better
time on stacker news than you do on nostre yeah yeah maybe you should just make stacker news a
protocol i don't know how you would do that just that'd be funny anyways the next one i want to
cover is feel the breeze baby oh do it okay look at that skateboard it's blowing your hair this
one's this one's for justin shock net i love you justin you should do a newsletter and i'll cover
that too is that no i just want to i just want to share this because i think this kind of goes
You used to skate, right?
You're at a...
I don't know.
I don't know about that part yet.
Yeah.
Anyways, I just want to share this
because I think this kind of goes into everything
that we were talking about earlier with Austin.
And it kind of goes to what you were saying just right now.
Like, you know, people are working really hard
behind the scenes, you know, to get Bitcoin everywhere.
And I know the team at Breeze has been doing the time to build thing.
And they're literally going all over the globe
trying to to get people to use lightning um you know and sure they're trying to get people to use
breeze at the same time but like look at all these photos right like they're and danny just
just prove it don't they i mean they do i mean danny's just busted the world yeah but yeah he
just shared all the stuff that they're doing um and then they just released their breeze mcp server
and uh i think it's i think it's worth bringing up because they do a lot of hard work and they're
talking about the plan b forum all that stuff and so i just wanted to share that that a good post yeah i think it if you building something uh and you want to get possibly paid for it do time to build there you go like a hack of global like the skateboard thing
but i think it's worth mentioning because i don't think people see that a lot of this
it kind of goes to and i saw another post this week we were talking about in the lab by somebody
else who's doing a lot of work in the ecosystem and they're just kind of burnt out basically
way and uh that was it was on twitter i'll show you later keon but uh yeah and i think kind of
what janet just said like i think just a lot of people are burnt out and like a lot of people
blowing their tops off blowing their tops off yeah so feels like a bear market blowing their tops and
kicking their sacks and oh boy these bitcoiners so we're gonna jump into keon's top stories keon
Orange Pooh Immunity?
What's this?
Yeah, I thought this was fun.
Scoresby was hanging out with his family,
and someone who he calls a cousin
who is actually a child of his cousin's son.
Yeah, his cousin's grandson?
No, he's his cousin's son.
He's a child of a cousin's son.
Wait, no, start all over.
Yeah, his cousin's grandson.
Cousin's grandson?
His cousin's grandson.
He was hanging out with his cousin's grandson
just him and that would be his cousin though grandson would be his cousin the child he's the
child he's the child of his son different probably somebody in this someone somebody in the comments
give us what they call it in german give us the family tree what did he say it's down there
merch is merch is back on stacker news he's always been here i know but not just talking like
oh there he goes talking casual first of all he's not actually my cousin he's my child
of my cousin's son english does not have a word for this and i don't know if any
in germany we would call that a nephew of a second degree i believe the gianni jargon is english
first cousin once removed down to it oh interesting oh you know what i for actually
teresa always says that that's my first cousin second cousin yeah yeah yeah that makes sense
third i'm glad we figured that out was that what the post was about his cousin because
Because his cousin is a first.
His cousin's son would be a second,
and then the child of that son would be the third.
Once removed, yeah.
I think it's not removed.
It's not removed.
He said it was removed.
The removed comes in with divorce.
No, he says it right here.
He said it at the bottom.
Yeah, Murch said,
in Germany we would call that nephew of second degree.
I believe the genealogy jargon in English is first cousin once removed down.
Nobody says that.
Why not?
It's down, though.
I don't know.
First cousin once removed down.
Once removed down.
What happens if it's removed up?
It wouldn't be because that would just be your first cousin.
That would just be your first cousin, Jenna.
You would just have to give birth to your father.
That would just be your first cousin or your second cousin.
Okay.
All right.
Well, I think we settled it right there.
Because you can even say twice removed down.
Twice removed down.
Yeah, if that's his cousin's grandson's son.
Removed down.
Why is it removed in a direction?
Because you're...
You're moving.
you're moving down the family
you're moving up the family tree
in the geology
okay so if I remove it up
blood flows downhill
oh it does sure
it's a good lesson
anyways
is that all the other ones
no so he's hanging out
with this guy
his first cousin wants to remove down
got it
he's hanging out with them
and he's 14 years old and he's hanging out alone
because he's like in that middle zone.
Gen Z.
Yeah, I guess.
I don't know.
But I think he's too old to hang out with the young kids
and too young to hang out with the adults.
So he's hanging out alone.
And then Scoresby, being Scoresby, is like, hey, what's up?
And starts trying to talk to him about Bitcoin.
I think he said, have you ever used Bitcoin?
That's his opening line.
Oh, Lord.
His pickup line for Orangefield.
Here we go.
And apparently this guy, he owned Solana and Ethereum and sold them at a profit.
And it left Scoresby kind of speechless about how to proceed with orange pill in him.
Because he's not at the age where he's concerned with things like censorship, resistance, and store of value.
And he's turned a profit on Solana, and they got these sparkly marketing, probably, and stuff.
and so he was trying to figure out what to do
and he tried to get him turned on
to prediction markets
and things like Stacker News where you're
sending micropayments
and maybe that would intrigue him but he
said he seemed less than interested
which
it's easy to imagine
in a 14 year old
and so he told him
he was going to be poor basically
and that was the end of their
interaction
but um yeah that is that your yeah the problem the problem you bump into when you try to talk
to somebody like this about bitcoin is that like they're not going to get it because they're lucky
and they don't see a reason yeah bitcoin's for unlucky people
right lucky on solana right lucky on ethereum you just happen to like
not get burned but you probably will yeah like we were talking to that that kid when jimmy song was
there and the kid was like yeah i just did a startup with a building for solana and he was
like and jimmy basically told him he was like uh what are you working on like and the guy's like
oh i'm doing like an nft it's gonna have an exchange and he goes you know you're gonna go
to jail just like because you're doing like securities and there's all this kind of like
stuff you should consult a lawyer like jimmy was like telling him the truth and the guy's like no
i'm not i'm not doing anything wrong um but you know some kids are just chasing the money man
especially young kids they don't know any better and that's what i'm saying sometimes you chase
the money and you end up lucky yeah but then why would you ever need bitcoin if you're just lucky
that's what i'm saying bitcoin is bitcoin is luck this goes back to what i was saying like
americans don't need bitcoin it's like it's it's south america these other countries the only people
they're going to get bitcoin are the people that understand it just one little point on that yeah
and i think that's a fair point but there have been times where you have talked about this where
you have sounded a little bit like oh all those poor people in other countries are doing so bad
no i just i just trying to i'm just trying to like really hit home american you kind of it's
like talking down a little bit so no i'm just i'm just saying that in america people don't need
Bitcoin. And the people
that do choose to get Bitcoin
are actively making a choice.
They're making a choice between
I want Bitcoin or fiat.
What you're saying sounds a little bit racist sometimes.
What? Or classist sometimes.
Oh, wow. This is another podcast for that.
The way that you come off. Can I let Dino be
racist?
Oh, that's the question
right there.
I don't know. Cars are the brownest person in this room.
He's the what?
He's the brownest person in this room.
He can basically say anything he wants about any race.
Like as far as we're concerned.
I don't think race or class has anything to do with it.
It's just a statement that Americans really don't need to be a race or class.
No, I just don't think Americans – and you're kind of seeing it, right?
They want stocks.
They want, you know, Solano.
They want to gamble.
Like look at our president.
Like he wants all these things for America.
It's not how you talk about America.
It's the way you talk about other countries is what I'm saying.
When did I say anything about another country?
okay we'll just we'll just pin that for another day when it comes up okay bring it up okay it's
got a pendant yeah i feel like don't you would you not agree that other countries need it more
like i just went to merida and we we orange filled the whole city there and like yes they need it
more than us yeah and so they're gonna they're gonna want to use it they're gonna want bitcoin
like we paid them in bitcoin i think that's great because they want it so it's not just me saying
random statements because i haven't traveled and seen around i'm telling you from actual proof of
work oh no no and i think that's great anyways i don't know how we got on that subject but okay
plus you can't you can't be racist against mexicans because you i i think it's just i think
it's just like a i think it's just an interesting conversation because i think like americans how
are choosing right now not to buy bitcoin when instead they're choosing stocks or they're
choosing treasuries or they're choosing all these other things and instead they should just be
staying humble and buying bitcoin but they're not these other things are fun though yeah exactly
because it falls in line with kind of what our leadership is doing if i open it right and and
there's nothing wrong with that but like it's uh it's a very um it's a very weird time in america
but it's i think it's better than the kamala timeline for sure i think yeah i think well i
I think it's not that Americans don't need saving technology.
I think that the other ways that they try to save money are more normal.
And so they can talk to other people about it.
We have to come here into this office and hang out with each other to be able to talk about Bitcoin.
We can't just go anywhere and talk about Bitcoin.
And then the other thing is, yeah, it's also that other stuff is fun.
because there's like a lot of like fancy press releases and like news events around it but
bitcoin's just like i keep working your money is still here it nothing's changed uh and i don't
it's not going to attract a 14 year old
cool yep the next story is plot poets zine number 32 can i get a
What is this?
So check this out.
So this time I had some fun.
I took, I have this collection of copies of the Washington Post from like, from like 1900.
I don't know.
Like, I guess the whole century, maybe.
Anyway, so I took those and put them in my scanner and then I, and then I waved them around.
So I got this wobbly stuff.
So that was kind of the theme here.
that's cool so you're remixing yeah i'm basically a dj that's cool
oh what is this right here this is so is this the paper that you're talking about yeah
oh that's dope i like that how did you get the lines like that you know oh you don't give away
your secrets nice uh this one says the stories in here are worth reading because they come from
people who have hope in the future i don't know anything about the future but i know i like using
bitcoin as money mike trump there you go but yeah i really liked it i like the stories that i got to
put in here this week um i thought it was a good mix um of just like stuff that you'd want to know
about lighting and bitcoin right now when you put these together is this one usually your favorite
one that that's why you put it as here or is it uh the first one there is the top boost okay and
then here is just the top post and and then yeah i order those by the date that they were posted
interesting wow looks like there's some all cool cool stuff you gotta you gotta you gotta read the
rest yep you gotta check it out and also nobody nobody uh bought a classified ad this week but
you can you still can you sure can next week you should somebody should buy a for love of the game
um yeah we gotta sell those stickers right you ordered i'm waiting for let me know when you're
ready to do the for the love of the game stickers yes so one thing about that i'm not gonna copy the
artist's art but i will print for the love of the game it's his art it's not my art it was in that
post it was like the guy the artist on the trolley was like i drew every line oh it was a it was a
photoshopped picture and i believe it was i believe you can buy that at like disney
i believe you could buy that i was just gonna i was just gonna i was just gonna print out i was
just gonna print out 50 and then give them what you're not like a disney type of piece of thing
it is disney owns star wars and it's about but they wouldn't like put it together in that sort
of way yeah i think they can you just print me one and then i can just put it on my laptop i don't
think he's the photographer i just want to have it because it's just so funny okay i you know i
I appreciate that you really got a kick out of it.
So maybe I just,
but cause that's copy.
If that's really his art,
I'm not going to copy it.
All right.
No,
that's fine.
I'll just use sticker meal.
But if it's not,
I'll just use sticker meal.
It's okay.
Use sticker meal.
There you go.
Cause they'll copy people and,
and steal from people.
So no,
I mean,
that's what we use for stickers anyway,
sticker meal.
But if you don't want to do for the love of the game,
it's okay.
I'll just use sticker meal for like one thing.
For the love of the game.
You got to use sticker.
For the love of the game.
All right.
Anyways, other than that, yeah, look, you did a good job.
So would you, okay, so where's the line then?
Where's the line?
Would you put for the love of the game with the little thing on the back of the zine?
I would just put the line with the zine.
I would put the words for the love of the game.
Is that what you want?
So you would put it as a classified then?
What?
I'm saying yes.
The dog.
With the dog.
What is it called?
The dog.
So the dog for the love of the game.
Okay.
Whatever his name is.
Would you put.
You asked me in this episode
if I would sue the AI
for stealing my art.
Yeah, but that was just for the show.
But I'm not going to steal another artist's art
for you.
So you're saying on the back of the classifieds,
there's no for the game.
It's already in.
We should do a classified ad.
Find this artist. Ask him if we can print out the sticker.
Let's find the guy.
His name's George Lucas.
Let's find the guy and let's say...
George Lucas doesn't own it anymore.
I'd have to contact the CEO of Disney
Make a sticker of
And then the NBA owns for the love of the game
Like they own the rights to that
Who does?
The NBA
Like that whole for the love of the game comes from the NBA
We can steal from that
That's why Topher said it
It was an NBA thing
For the love of the game
We were just going to bring it back
The more you know
Alright
We can put the more you know on it
Apparently she won't do it because that's owned by NBC
or no but she's now peacock universal an indie artist that's her no i get it that's the thing
it's like the guy is selling his stickers on the trolley so it's like i'm he's already down anyone
needs bitcoin it's that guy yeah maybe we just buy their rights from him but it's he's stealing
it from george luke or from disney anyway yeah that's a fair point no no that's a fair point
so i don't know who's the real artist anyways that's uh the other one we're going to bring up
a stacker news knowledge graph this was in the zine too yeah what's this yeah so uh i thought
this was really cool space simple stacker is like a total data uh wizard and he took the database
dump that i gave him a few weeks ago and linked every post that links to another post really wow
Oh, that's cool.
This is the visualization of it.
And you can see like clusters of posts that link a lot to other posts.
And then you can, I don't know, it's like a nice way of seeing how related things are.
Or, you know, at a glance, you can kind of see how related things are.
That's so cool.
Yeah, he shows how he originally clustered them.
And I think it was probably just whatever way that the software uses clusters them.
but then he applied some transformations to it to make it spiral.
And so you get a cool effect.
But if you go to his website,
you can actually click around and see the relationship.
Yeah.
Does it have, can you zoom in and see the actual?
Click on a little dot.
That's wild.
Let me see.
No way.
Click it on it.
It's not, oh, there it goes.
That's so cool, man.
So you can see where it links to.
Did he do this just because he loves Stacker News or what?
He is doing a research paper for the Bitcoin Research Institute and asked for Stacker News data.
And he's also, he's just like, this is his thing.
This is his zine.
You know what I mean?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
This is his art car.
Yeah.
But he's remixing your data.
So there you go.
Oh, yeah.
Well, I gave him permission.
He's presenting it.
For the love of the game, I think he's doing it.
The game is doing it.
the game um cool this is cool stuff man yeah i think it's awesome what are these right here this
is interesting these little pockets oh yeah those are like i think uh plus like they're the more
they have they're interlinked i think it's probably what it implies interesting interlinked um but i'm
actually not super sure oh these are all ai post oh yeah i would guess um those are probably from
optimism's weekly ai stuff it's just fascinating it makes you really wonder about like the universe
and stuff like that and like maybe things cluster because they're more uh commonalities between them
i was i don't know if you saw that conspiracy theory post on stacker news this week but they
were like which conspiracy theory do you wish is true no the more i thought about it i was going
to make a thing in there but i didn't but the more i thought about it i was like i kind of wish
the mandela effect was true um because it would explain a lot of you know maybe there's time
travelers that are coming in and messing with the timeline and maybe all these fractal universes
are getting created and then they end up merging with each other and that's what the the cash that
we have with our brains is coming from is just like all this mandela they just keep but maybe
like maybe there's two maybe like like maybe what you remember is more important so if if like
somebody died in my timeline then i'm on this branch but and then you're probably on a different
branch because you didn't experience that so the berenstein bears branch is probably
the timeline that i'm in because i remember watching the berenstein bears
or the berenstein bears but you don't so therefore you're probably on a different timeline
based on those fractals of those universes people on which timeline need bitcoin though
yeah they're kind of one of those things where like maybe in the future like people will be like
there was no ark ark didn't exist like wait what there was an ark there's people that were and they
were like no it didn't it was called spark and that's what they did to noah too right
what do you call an ark noah when he built the ark they said no you didn't
but noah's like no that's exactly why you're here right now because i built the ark and saved
humanity from the flood no i was just talking more like in a sense of like conspiracy theories
that I wish were true because it was a post on second news.
And this reminded me of that.
I wasn't like saying it's true what I'm saying.
I was just like thinking about crazy things.
Yeah, you remember Noah's Ark.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, that's where I just was playing with that word.
Oh, okay.
Because there's a way you can like add to what people are saying
if it like connects to something else that's not related,
although it is by word because that's like wordplay
and it's like funny sometimes.
Is it not always funny?
I guess it's not funny right now.
No, I got it.
You did?
No, I got it.
I know what you were trying to say.
You said to say for the love of the game at the end.
Oh.
No, I got it.
I got it.
I was just, I think for me, I was just trying to let you know, like, no, I'm not.
Like, I don't actually believe that.
I'm just like, I think it would be an interesting.
Oh, you don't believe that there was a flood?
No, I don't believe there's like the Mandela effect or whatever.
Like, I think it's just like a really interesting thing.
Anyways.
But what about the great?
Like you don't believe, like what about the blood?
No, 100%.
Yeah, I believe in the biblical timeline.
Are you kidding me?
I don't know.
It could be a conspiracy.
Yeah.
Anyway, so yeah, this is really cool, Keon.
When are we going to see the report?
I think he wrote a draft already.
Good job.
I heard it about a week ago.
Where is it?
We'll probably see the final one when he's ready.
There's been like a whole series.
Yeah.
He's done at least five, six.
We've covered a few of them.
I know there's been six.
There's seven.
You said that he released the whole draft already?
Go to his bio.
I did.
And then he has it.
He links it for you.
I said research proposal.
This one, yeah.
Yeah, there you go.
That's where he's beginning to write it up.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
I talk to Simple Stacker all the time, which is kind of interesting.
I didn't know that's what he did.
Yeah, bro's a scientist.
It's really cool.
Really cool stuff.
um i think that's all we got i also had bip 3 oh yeah yeah you did uh let's go over there
has motioned to activate bip 3 which is a change which is like sort of it's kind of meta and
self-referential but it's like a change to how bips are supposed to be uh documented and the
process for which they get merged and like this how you're supposed to update them and stuff
I just wanted to cover that
I think it's pretty cool
it's like this kind of janitorial housekeeping stuff
the other BIP2
that
I think they've been using
was
I don't know
it's kind of a lot
it's probably like two to three times as long
as Merch's BIP3
so I think they do a lot to make it
make it simpler, easier to understand
and insert like less opinion
into it because I think it also wasn't
Is it necessary anymore?
I think BIP2 was authored originally in 2016 by Luke Dasher.
It's dark outside already.
The world is changing, dude.
It's so dark just on this street, but the sky is actually not that dark right now.
I think it's just because the light in here is super bright.
Now you can see the reflection now.
They also clean these windows.
Oh, these windows are tinted, aren't they?
I think they're also tinted on the outside.
yeah yeah yeah no they're not you can see us on the outside but i can see that like the sky up
there is like still quite bright and blue um cool do you have any other thoughts on this
or no i just thought it was worth mentioning it's kind of kind of one of these uh you know
kind of boring things that happens in bitcoin that's pretty awesome uh because it makes bitcoin
better and bitcoin is amazing already so it's a big deal cool yep um and i think that's everything
um recording stop uh we had a couple youtube comments the first one was
uh oh no i did that one where's that i think i've been reading those yeah those are
i guess i i didn't save them hot ones i didn't say we had a couple youtube comments but
get to go read them
I thought I saved it but I guess I didn't
from here you could post
all YouTube comments on Stacker News
maybe
I thought I saved the picture
but I didn't do it
it was pretty some spicy stuff
I screenshotted one that said my voice is annoying
can you tell us
what does it sound like
after you drink a gallon of milk
it's like what you sound like
so janice janice said i'm five out of ten annoying and what i said what i replied to
jan is that she sounds like a stone 12 year old that just drank a gallon of milk
car what does that sound like man i feel like there's like this whole like what does that mean
like i can't clear my energy going on this side of the table and i'm on this for the second
i'm like over here on this side of the table where you're in the middle of it too
No, I'm not.
I'm trying not to be.
I'm trying to be positive.
But on this side of the table, I feel like there's some fights over here going on.
Do you want some more gummies?
Yeah.
There you go, Fred.
Wow.
But what does it...
I mean, can you describe the sound?
No, describe the sound.
I did my best.
No, no, no.
Describe the sound of a gallon of milk.
Well, it's not the gallon of milk that has the sound.
It's you that have the sound after you've drank a gallon of milk.
That's what I'm trying to say, but I just didn't want to use as many words.
Fair.
I don't know.
Just kind of like if you can record yourself or listen to this back later.
I've recorded myself plenty of times.
Okay.
She sounds normal.
She don't sound weird.
Like a normal.
Are you saying that you sound weird?
No, I don't think I sound weird.
I'm trying to.
Like when you do your videos, you sound probably the most calmest.
out of all the times that you talk.
This is why we drink milk.
I would say like in a social setting,
you're pretty chipper.
I would say you're chipper, right?
Yeah, milk's got...
Some stimulating effects as well.
Right?
Like, remember your birthday week, girl?
That was fun.
You were super chipper that week.
Even though you were.
I showed up.
What else?
But I just want to know what it sounds like after you drink a gallon of milk.
What is that sound?
I don't know.
I mean, I would suggest you try it, but you would just sound the same.
I wouldn't drink a gallon of milk.
That's just ridiculous.
Yeah, you'd throw up.
I'd throw up, yeah.
So I sound like I'm puking?
No, no, no, no.
You sound like you're used to doing it.
Ted, have you ever drank a gallon of milk?
What can you describe that sound
with an adjective?
Milky?
Bro, shut up.
All right.
Anyways, that's all we got this week
on Snacker News Live.
Keon, what are you doing this weekend?
Oh, I'm going to
pick up
some rabbits.
Some rabbits?
Yeah, I'm going to
That's awesome.
I think it was starting a rabbit farm.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
What are you going to name them?
One of them is going to be called Bunny, probably.
The other one?
Can you call it Bugs?
Can you call it Bugs and then Bugs Bunny?
I'll call it Bugs.
Bugs Bunny.
This one's called Bugs.
I'm going to start making up something.
I'm going to do it because I do the same thing every week.
Wait, you're not getting bunnies?
I'm not getting bunnies.
Oh, dude, I thought you really were to replace your cat finally.
I was like yes he finally moved on I don know A bunny would be a pretty good replacement Yeah totally Especially you got a diaper on it you can get one i feel like you coys right no rabbit poop is so good for your
garden just put it right back on the grass do you have buddies i used to when i was growing up
there you go you're here first oh that's it yeah so you look like you used to have bunnies thank
you yeah you sound like you just drank what did they what did they eat uh just carrots like what
did you feed them like yeah carrots lettuce any any array of vegetables but also some kibble kibble
ease oh interesting little nibbly kibble ease wow cool but they kind of they attacked each other so
that was ultimately the the issue we thought we had a boy and a girl we had two boys wow and then
nature ran its course and they killed each other no not quite or maybe they did eventually but we
We gave them a transition.
We gave them a play.
The only weird animal I had growing up was an iguana.
Oh.
But he was like.
Are you an iguana guy?
It was from Mexico, though.
So we weren't really sure if it was really an iguana.
You know?
Yeah.
It's one of those.
And I think my uncle gave it to me.
Wow.
And then sure enough.
This is why you don't give boys pets.
Oh, man.
Because you peed on it?
I shouldn't be saying this.
It was so sad.
Like my brother and I
We were like let's put the cat in front of the iguana thing
And literally died He fell over It was so sad He died He died from fright i still remember it dang i repented it okay yeah it was like it shouldn happen it was like this was the glass
of the where the iguana was and the cat the cat was just like looking at it but it was i guess it
was still too close to the glass and then he just like his name was iggy i feel so bad
oh no we should have a little memorial here no we did we had a memorial we buried him
my mom was so pissed yeah she's like oh god was it pretty big no it wasn't that big it was like
this big okay i mean we were taking care of him but like a dude had a weak heart
dang okay i mean his heart was probably really really small too so like and it probably freaked
i guess he thought we were gonna feed him to him which we weren't we were just like well what
happened if you put the cat in front of you know if he has cold blood though you gotta remember
that what does that mean you gotta warm up lizards got cold blood yeah see this is why
we never got iguana after that yeah my neighbor had a had a lizard oh really and she would let
me feed it crickets sometimes that was really fun yeah yeah r what are you doing this weekend um i don know i think i make a sticker for you I guess I make a few stickers Oh look at that
Yay.
For the love of the game.
Hard work.
For the love of the game.
I'll do it for the love of the game.
I'll just draw it myself.
Is that okay?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Just do it for, make one for me, Keon, and Topher.
Do you want a for the love of the game set?
For the love of the game.
You want one to set?
Does that mean anything to you?
yeah okay anyways uh the other the other thing is uh oh i should probably share this
so we're doing plebsgiving next week um and where are we gonna do it at and do it here right here
on this right here probably we do plebsgiving if you're a stacker who's from austin you should
come over sweet that's always a great time people bring food yeah it's gonna be fun we're gonna have
turkeys me and Topher are going to go to Costco tomorrow
and get some alcohol
and some alive turkey
yeah do it
weird and Keon's going to bring
rabbits yeah he's going to bring rabbits
I'll bring Peter Rabbit
I'm going to make a ham I think
wow that's what I'm going to bring
you always make a ham
yeah it's fun
so predictable
predictable man
anyways other than that y'all have a great weekend
stackers it's been fun
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