1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,580 (upbeat music) 2 00:00:02,580 --> 00:00:14,320 Hey everybody, welcome to the Phantom Power Artist Hour. 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:19,320 It is Sunday, March 10th, and this, of course, 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,240 is a value for value music show. 5 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:27,120 You guys know what that is, right? 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,440 This value cast, this podcast, this thing playing 7 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,740 in your ears that supports artists 8 00:00:33,740 --> 00:00:37,280 who are in the Bitcoin space because you are listening 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,640 on a modern podcasting 2.0 app, 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,460 like podcast guru, 11 00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:47,980 curiosity, podcast, or podcast, fountain, true fans. 12 00:00:47,980 --> 00:00:52,600 And if you like the show, if you like the music in the show, 13 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,760 you have the ability, the of the Lightning Network, 14 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,920 to send little tiny increments of Bitcoin, 15 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:03,640 otherwise known as Satoshi's directly to the artists 16 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,280 and the people that are creating this show. 17 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,320 That is what value for value is all about. 18 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:12,600 And in today's Phantom Power Artist Hour, 19 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,600 have a great conversation with producer and musician, 20 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:22,600 Martin Grooms from Charleston, South Carolina, 21 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,760 who is off to a great start with his song, The Hard Way, 22 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,600 which has been number one over on Wave Lake 23 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:32,920 for the last couple of weeks. 24 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,520 Great song, great vocals, great construction. 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,920 I broke it down in the Phantom Power Music review 26 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,920 two weeks ago, came out on the last Friday of February. 27 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,200 And Martin was kind enough to join me this week 28 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,640 on short notice for this week's edition 29 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,880 of the Phantom Power Artist Hour. 30 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:56,040 And we have a great conversation. 31 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,760 We talk about production, we talk about songwriting, 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,600 the effect of music on culture. 33 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,880 We talked about Broadway shows, 34 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,360 we talked about Elliott Smith. 35 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,360 It's a fun conversation. 36 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:08,640 I hope you guys really enjoy it. 37 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:12,400 He is an articulate guy who cares deeply 38 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,400 about getting the song right and taking the time to do it. 39 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:19,800 So before we get to the interview, 40 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,040 I wanna play you guys the song that's doing so well 41 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:23,800 over on Wave Lake. 42 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:25,800 It is called The Hard Way. 43 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,600 So we'll do that and then we'll bring them on the show. 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:30,440 Here we go. 45 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,020 (upbeat music) 46 00:02:33,020 --> 00:02:35,600 (upbeat music) 47 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:58,020 ♪ I knew it when we first met ♪ 48 00:02:58,020 --> 00:03:00,380 ♪ Something wasn't right ♪ 49 00:03:00,380 --> 00:03:01,980 ♪ And better judgment ♪ 50 00:03:01,980 --> 00:03:06,820 ♪ Would have kept me to myself ♪ 51 00:03:06,820 --> 00:03:10,500 ♪ Sweet nothing, it's nothing ♪ 52 00:03:10,500 --> 00:03:12,620 ♪ Fed me full of lies ♪ 53 00:03:12,620 --> 00:03:17,620 ♪ And still I can't forget the emptiness I felt ♪ 54 00:03:17,620 --> 00:03:24,100 ♪ I gave you all I had to give ♪ 55 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:29,980 ♪ And it never was enough ♪ 56 00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:36,700 ♪ It breaks me with those empty arms ♪ 57 00:03:36,700 --> 00:03:42,580 ♪ And inside your hollow clutch ♪ 58 00:03:42,580 --> 00:03:50,060 ♪ But you never meant it when you told me that you loved me ♪ 59 00:03:50,060 --> 00:03:56,340 ♪ I had to find that out the hard way ♪ 60 00:03:56,340 --> 00:04:01,660 ♪ You said that you'd never put someone else above ♪ 61 00:04:01,660 --> 00:04:06,660 ♪ And you told me that I'm pretty sure that's what they all say ♪ 62 00:04:06,660 --> 00:04:12,460 ♪ You were talking when I tuned out ♪ 63 00:04:12,460 --> 00:04:14,700 ♪ Your timings never rise ♪ 64 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:19,700 ♪ Scuces always seem to glide right out your mouth ♪ 65 00:04:19,700 --> 00:04:24,820 ♪ Sweet nothing, it's nothing ♪ 66 00:04:24,820 --> 00:04:26,860 ♪ Faded all those nights ♪ 67 00:04:26,860 --> 00:04:31,860 ♪ I watched us fuck it up as bottles bottom down ♪ 68 00:04:31,860 --> 00:04:38,460 ♪ We made all marks put in progress ♪ 69 00:04:38,460 --> 00:04:43,460 ♪ The more fit, the more fit this array ♪ 70 00:04:43,460 --> 00:04:50,820 ♪ I gave you all I had to give ♪ 71 00:04:50,820 --> 00:04:56,340 ♪ And tell you what to do ♪ 72 00:04:57,180 --> 00:05:02,180 ♪ And you never meant it when you told me that you loved me ♪ 73 00:05:02,180 --> 00:05:09,700 ♪ I had to find that out the hard way ♪ 74 00:05:09,700 --> 00:05:16,180 ♪ You said that you'd never put someone else above me ♪ 75 00:05:16,180 --> 00:05:21,940 ♪ And I'm pretty sure that's what they all say ♪ 76 00:05:23,180 --> 00:05:28,180 ♪ You never meant it when you told me that you loved me ♪ 77 00:05:28,180 --> 00:05:35,060 ♪ I had to find that out the hard way ♪ 78 00:05:35,060 --> 00:05:41,260 ♪ You said that you'd never put someone else above me ♪ 79 00:05:41,260 --> 00:05:47,300 ♪ And I'm pretty sure that's what they all say ♪ 80 00:05:47,300 --> 00:05:49,880 (upbeat music) 81 00:05:49,880 --> 00:06:13,180 - All right, everybody, welcome to "Fans and Power" 82 00:06:13,180 --> 00:06:18,180 that is "Hardway" by today's guest, producer and recording artist 83 00:06:18,180 --> 00:06:26,500 Martin Grooms from Charleston, South Carolina, 84 00:06:26,500 --> 00:06:28,700 if I'm not mistaken, is that correct, sir? 85 00:06:28,700 --> 00:06:32,020 - That is correct, yes, sir, thanks for having me today. 86 00:06:32,020 --> 00:06:33,020 - Oh, my pleasure. 87 00:06:33,020 --> 00:06:38,020 You're kind of off to a roaring start in the value verse. 88 00:06:38,020 --> 00:06:40,940 You're doing pretty good with the first one. 89 00:06:40,940 --> 00:06:44,660 You've been number one over on "Wave Lake" for a while. 90 00:06:44,660 --> 00:06:48,100 - Yeah, I'm extremely grateful for all the support 91 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:50,660 that this song's getting, kind of, to people's surprise. 92 00:06:50,660 --> 00:06:55,380 Similar kind of thing on the major streaming platforms 93 00:06:55,380 --> 00:06:57,340 that can go unnamed for now. 94 00:06:57,340 --> 00:06:58,340 (laughing) 95 00:06:58,340 --> 00:07:01,060 But those that she'll know, we're not named. 96 00:07:01,060 --> 00:07:03,060 - Right, we're not trying to take away 97 00:07:03,060 --> 00:07:04,900 from our value verse over here, right? 98 00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:09,900 So, no, essentially the numbers, they surprise me. 99 00:07:10,900 --> 00:07:12,420 I'm really happy with that. 100 00:07:12,420 --> 00:07:16,860 Strong first month numbers, I would say. 101 00:07:16,860 --> 00:07:18,460 So, I'm pretty stoked on that. 102 00:07:18,460 --> 00:07:22,060 - Yeah, it's a lovely track. 103 00:07:22,060 --> 00:07:24,620 I mean, I broke it down two weeks ago 104 00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:29,180 on the music review, "Great Bobby Callwell Vibes, 105 00:07:29,180 --> 00:07:31,020 "Great Production." 106 00:07:31,020 --> 00:07:33,820 But let's go back. 107 00:07:33,820 --> 00:07:35,580 - Oh, look at that. 108 00:07:35,580 --> 00:07:37,460 We got an amber alert and Nashville. 109 00:07:37,460 --> 00:07:38,980 The phones are going crazy. 110 00:07:38,980 --> 00:07:43,980 - Let's go back to the start of the musical journey for you. 111 00:07:43,980 --> 00:07:53,660 Like, how did you become a musician? 112 00:07:53,660 --> 00:07:55,100 What was your first instrument? 113 00:07:55,100 --> 00:07:56,820 All that fun stuff. 114 00:07:56,820 --> 00:07:59,820 - Oh, this might get orderly. 115 00:07:59,820 --> 00:08:01,420 I'll try my best to condense it. 116 00:08:01,420 --> 00:08:04,700 I grew up in a musical household. 117 00:08:04,700 --> 00:08:07,100 My dad is kind of like a, he's a guitarist. 118 00:08:07,100 --> 00:08:09,420 My mom is a vocalist. 119 00:08:09,420 --> 00:08:11,580 And so, lots of music in my household, 120 00:08:11,580 --> 00:08:13,740 like, you know, coming down the stairs when I was a kid 121 00:08:13,740 --> 00:08:16,540 and my parents were drinking coffee 122 00:08:16,540 --> 00:08:18,580 and singing Beatles tunes and stuff like that. 123 00:08:18,580 --> 00:08:23,380 So, you know, my father has a pretty robust, 124 00:08:23,380 --> 00:08:26,180 I don't know, tasting music. 125 00:08:26,180 --> 00:08:27,860 So, I mean, it was all over the place. 126 00:08:27,860 --> 00:08:29,060 It was stuff like the ink spots, 127 00:08:29,060 --> 00:08:30,700 that King Cole, I mean, you can probably hear 128 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:33,380 some of that influence somewhere in there. 129 00:08:33,380 --> 00:08:35,140 But then it was stuff like Beatles 130 00:08:35,140 --> 00:08:37,700 clapped in the traditional, you know, classic rock stuff. 131 00:08:37,700 --> 00:08:40,620 So, yeah, I got really lucky with that. 132 00:08:40,620 --> 00:08:43,780 And I grew up singing. 133 00:08:43,780 --> 00:08:45,700 I play a little guitar, a little piano, 134 00:08:45,700 --> 00:08:49,500 not really enough to tout that I do either. 135 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:51,860 I would never call myself an instrumentalist. 136 00:08:51,860 --> 00:08:52,820 Yeah, no, I'm an ear guy. 137 00:08:52,820 --> 00:08:57,180 So, I've been very lucky with, I don't know, 138 00:08:57,180 --> 00:09:00,020 it's just I hear things very well. 139 00:09:00,020 --> 00:09:03,460 I used to drive my show choir teacher nuts 140 00:09:03,460 --> 00:09:05,740 because instead of reading the music, 141 00:09:05,740 --> 00:09:07,580 I would just go stand by somebody who's in my section 142 00:09:07,580 --> 00:09:09,340 and learn the part by listening to it. 143 00:09:09,340 --> 00:09:13,740 Okay, good, a little bit of a musical theater kid. 144 00:09:13,740 --> 00:09:14,740 I love it. 145 00:09:14,740 --> 00:09:15,820 Yeah, for sure. 146 00:09:15,820 --> 00:09:20,300 But yeah, just come by music very naturally and honestly. 147 00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:24,380 And a big fan of melody, you can probably tell, you know, 148 00:09:24,380 --> 00:09:27,020 at least in this particular song, 149 00:09:27,020 --> 00:09:29,940 very basic chord structure, chord progression. 150 00:09:29,940 --> 00:09:33,420 And most of the work is the melody dancing around that, you know. 151 00:09:33,420 --> 00:09:38,420 So, I don't know, I'm just very inspired by melody 152 00:09:38,420 --> 00:09:44,060 and singing and music is just a huge part of my childhood, I think. 153 00:09:44,060 --> 00:09:45,220 Fantastic. 154 00:09:45,220 --> 00:09:50,220 Yeah, so you kind of grew up in a nurturing musical household 155 00:09:50,220 --> 00:09:53,860 that kind of fills your ears with all these influences. 156 00:09:53,860 --> 00:09:57,460 And now you, so you're the kind of guy that like, 157 00:09:57,460 --> 00:10:00,340 if we were to sit here and pick a part, 158 00:10:00,340 --> 00:10:05,340 and I don't mean to expose any sort of theoretical weakness 159 00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:09,020 if you wanna call it that, but like if we're sitting here 160 00:10:09,020 --> 00:10:11,740 and we're talking Dorian and Locrian scales, you're like, 161 00:10:11,740 --> 00:10:13,700 oh yeah, yeah, you got it. 162 00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:14,980 I'll drive you nuts. 163 00:10:14,980 --> 00:10:18,820 No, because, for instance, we know Bobby Shell is 164 00:10:18,820 --> 00:10:20,500 a contributor to that value versus well. 165 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:22,460 And a good friend of mine, Bobby Shell. 166 00:10:22,460 --> 00:10:23,700 Shout out Bobby Shell. 167 00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:25,060 Good friend of mine, long time. 168 00:10:25,060 --> 00:10:29,660 And their instances where we'll just be playing around on music, 169 00:10:29,660 --> 00:10:30,660 maybe like what key is this in? 170 00:10:30,660 --> 00:10:33,140 And I'm kind of just like, I don't know, like I can figure it out. 171 00:10:33,140 --> 00:10:35,620 It's more map to reverse engineer it for me. 172 00:10:35,620 --> 00:10:40,620 And I, without trying to put my skill set on a pedestal, 173 00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:45,940 where I'm really strong is just like knowing 174 00:10:45,940 --> 00:10:49,380 if it's the right note or if it's not the right note, you know what I mean? 175 00:10:49,380 --> 00:10:50,220 I do. 176 00:10:50,220 --> 00:10:51,900 And I love working with artists like you, 177 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:55,700 and one of my favorite is back in Seattle 178 00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:58,900 where I moved here from an artist by the name 179 00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:01,820 Carrie Ackery, AKRE. 180 00:11:01,820 --> 00:11:06,340 And Carrie was big in the Seattle scene and the Grun scene 181 00:11:06,340 --> 00:11:10,140 was signed and she kind of came out of retirement a couple of years ago 182 00:11:10,140 --> 00:11:13,260 and we did a record in Seattle. 183 00:11:13,260 --> 00:11:15,820 And I adore her writing. 184 00:11:15,820 --> 00:11:17,540 She doesn't know theory, she doesn't know keys. 185 00:11:17,540 --> 00:11:19,860 She just sits down and writes, right? 186 00:11:19,860 --> 00:11:22,060 And the beautiful part of that is that she 187 00:11:22,060 --> 00:11:28,300 doesn't get constrained by what music theory classes tell you you can't do. 188 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:32,980 Because she would give me an arrangement or a new coordinate. 189 00:11:32,980 --> 00:11:36,020 I'm like, you're not supposed to do that. 190 00:11:36,020 --> 00:11:37,020 You know? 191 00:11:37,020 --> 00:11:39,020 Yeah, no. 192 00:11:39,020 --> 00:11:41,020 I wonder what he-- 193 00:11:41,020 --> 00:11:45,620 And me, and it's funny, because the guitar player that she had 194 00:11:45,620 --> 00:11:47,740 was also a dear friend of mine. 195 00:11:47,740 --> 00:11:52,820 And he is a music school graduate in a total guitar nerd. 196 00:11:52,820 --> 00:11:55,940 So he and I, while she's talking, she's like, yeah, 197 00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:57,500 I love what you guys were doing. 198 00:11:57,500 --> 00:11:59,780 And then he and I would be like, well, you know, you take the low 199 00:11:59,780 --> 00:12:01,100 Korean and you move it over to the door. 200 00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:03,820 And you've got to mix a letter and a five and a drop 13 and put the extension 201 00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:04,820 on that. 202 00:12:04,820 --> 00:12:07,020 And she's like, just shut the-- 203 00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:08,820 I don't play this alone. 204 00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:15,100 I love working with guys like you because yet you're not held back by theory. 205 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:16,140 We're not bound by the math. 206 00:12:16,140 --> 00:12:17,460 It's more of a feeling thing. 207 00:12:17,460 --> 00:12:23,060 And I think if you can do it successfully, which I'm learning, 208 00:12:23,060 --> 00:12:23,660 I don't know. 209 00:12:23,660 --> 00:12:25,660 It's a second day. 210 00:12:25,660 --> 00:12:26,660 I don't know. 211 00:12:26,660 --> 00:12:27,740 You know, my dad is like that. 212 00:12:27,740 --> 00:12:31,140 He was very-- he's a lot of still, plays the guitar still. 213 00:12:31,140 --> 00:12:38,140 Very much like a pickup his guitar, listen to the Aave Maria iteration of-- 214 00:12:38,140 --> 00:12:41,220 or I'm sorry, the Cheat Act conversion of Aave Maria and like pick it apart 215 00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:43,420 and like play it in three days for you note for note. 216 00:12:43,420 --> 00:12:44,660 Like he's just-- 217 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:45,500 Nice. 218 00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:47,340 That's how he is, you know? 219 00:12:47,340 --> 00:12:48,860 Neither of us are really classically trained, 220 00:12:48,860 --> 00:12:52,980 but I would attribute the ear totally to him. 221 00:12:52,980 --> 00:12:54,140 Yeah. 222 00:12:54,140 --> 00:12:54,780 But any other thing. 223 00:12:54,780 --> 00:12:59,460 I think I drive some people who are a little bit more, you know, 224 00:12:59,460 --> 00:13:03,100 traditionally musically inclined, a little bit crazy. 225 00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:05,940 I know Bobby's got a little bit better handle on some of the music stuff 226 00:13:05,940 --> 00:13:08,060 and sometimes I'll be like, no, play this inversion. 227 00:13:08,060 --> 00:13:11,820 So I'm big on inversions, not necessarily full chords. 228 00:13:11,820 --> 00:13:14,500 Kind of similar to the way I play guitar. 229 00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:17,940 It's more or less using the instruments to get the idea out of my head. 230 00:13:17,940 --> 00:13:24,300 Well, and I think that that's relevant and shown 231 00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:29,420 in hard way with your diads and working with forts. 232 00:13:29,420 --> 00:13:31,900 And you know, you really-- 233 00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:35,900 I was at Bobby's house. 234 00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:37,900 I was like, watch this and I picked a big guitar. 235 00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:38,900 It was probably this one. 236 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:40,620 It's my little telecaster. 237 00:13:40,620 --> 00:13:41,620 Tele? 238 00:13:41,620 --> 00:13:42,620 Yeah. 239 00:13:42,620 --> 00:13:44,980 And just a real simple stuff. 240 00:13:44,980 --> 00:13:49,540 You know, the kind of dancing-- 241 00:13:49,540 --> 00:13:50,540 Oh, yeah. 242 00:13:50,540 --> 00:13:51,540 --give it a spine. 243 00:13:51,540 --> 00:13:55,660 The record is spying to kind of like, you know, allow other instrumentation 244 00:13:55,660 --> 00:13:56,860 to kind of dip in and out of it. 245 00:13:56,860 --> 00:13:59,380 So no, I was really stoked with the way 246 00:13:59,380 --> 00:14:01,300 that you just to take a minute and say this. 247 00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:03,940 I was really, really stoked on the way that you reviewed the song. 248 00:14:03,940 --> 00:14:09,340 Because when you produce something like that, 249 00:14:09,340 --> 00:14:11,340 you don't expect people to pick it apart 250 00:14:11,340 --> 00:14:15,420 or to find some of the little Easter eggs that you put in there. 251 00:14:15,420 --> 00:14:18,740 And yeah, it's just-- 252 00:14:18,740 --> 00:14:19,240 I don't know. 253 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:25,180 It's a cool thing to like hear somebody give like an introspective-- 254 00:14:25,180 --> 00:14:28,300 I don't know-- review of something that you put a lot of effort into. 255 00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:29,900 So I appreciate it about a lot. 256 00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:31,580 That was my pleasure. 257 00:14:31,580 --> 00:14:35,340 And it proves that I still have my hearing, which is-- 258 00:14:35,340 --> 00:14:36,180 After-- 259 00:14:36,180 --> 00:14:37,180 --after four years-- 260 00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:38,180 --for years, right? 261 00:14:38,180 --> 00:14:39,180 It's like-- 262 00:14:39,180 --> 00:14:40,340 Yeah, that little di-- 263 00:14:40,340 --> 00:14:41,940 I am still there. 264 00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:42,700 Yeah. 265 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:44,660 Little diads, like one of my favorite parts of the song, though, 266 00:14:44,660 --> 00:14:46,380 because it just kind of glues everything together. 267 00:14:46,380 --> 00:14:48,540 If you don't have that there, it's just like this drum 268 00:14:48,540 --> 00:14:49,460 and bass kind of thing. 269 00:14:49,460 --> 00:14:53,740 But one little element kind of streams it all together, you know? 270 00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:55,100 Well, now, what do you like more? 271 00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:57,420 Do you like writing? 272 00:14:57,420 --> 00:14:58,660 Do you like performing? 273 00:14:58,660 --> 00:15:00,700 Or do you like producing? 274 00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:02,020 Producing. 275 00:15:02,020 --> 00:15:02,380 Really? 276 00:15:02,380 --> 00:15:03,100 Yeah. 277 00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:03,780 Yeah. 278 00:15:03,780 --> 00:15:07,140 I love-- I'm not great at mixing and mastering and all that kind 279 00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:07,620 of stuff. 280 00:15:07,620 --> 00:15:11,940 And that's something that I'm actually trying to get better at. 281 00:15:11,940 --> 00:15:14,580 Obviously, I don't want to be-- 282 00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:17,180 let me back up a minute and say this. 283 00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:20,500 I've had the opportunity to work on professional records 284 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:24,260 in the past and doing so allows you to kind of like see 285 00:15:24,260 --> 00:15:27,020 that process a little better. 286 00:15:27,020 --> 00:15:29,420 And right now, I'm doing it out of necessity, 287 00:15:29,420 --> 00:15:32,500 but I kind of feel like there's no place for ego 288 00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:33,660 in a good product. 289 00:15:33,660 --> 00:15:36,340 And that's kind of true no matter what you're doing. 290 00:15:36,340 --> 00:15:40,300 So I guess I'm saying that to say that everybody has a job 291 00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:44,620 in the music creation process for a reason. 292 00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:45,380 You know what I'm saying? 293 00:15:45,380 --> 00:15:47,660 The guy who is your engineer is not necessarily 294 00:15:47,660 --> 00:15:48,860 going to mix your record. 295 00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:50,580 The guy who mixes your record is not necessarily 296 00:15:50,580 --> 00:15:52,940 going to master your record. 297 00:15:52,940 --> 00:15:53,420 Yeah. 298 00:15:53,420 --> 00:16:00,380 And that's something that as you kind of grow as a musician, 299 00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:02,900 you kind of learn that and you source people out over time. 300 00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:07,700 So that's kind of in my plans to grow the team a little bit, 301 00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:11,860 I think ultimately, but I enjoy the work in that regard. 302 00:16:11,860 --> 00:16:18,220 You know, for those listeners who are not musicians, 303 00:16:18,220 --> 00:16:25,300 how would you explain the role of a producer, not the engineer, 304 00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:31,420 not the mix engineer and not the mastering engineer, 305 00:16:31,420 --> 00:16:32,780 but the role of the producer? 306 00:16:32,780 --> 00:16:34,580 How would you explain it? 307 00:16:34,580 --> 00:16:38,700 The person who oversees the arrangement of the record, 308 00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:40,900 how things drop in and out of it, how 309 00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:43,620 things, it's basically handing the record in, 310 00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:48,820 being like this is done to the liking of me, essentially. 311 00:16:48,820 --> 00:16:51,100 And then co-production is somebody lending ideas 312 00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:55,060 and/or playing light instrumentation on that. 313 00:16:55,060 --> 00:16:57,300 They lend an idea that I didn't necessarily say, hey, 314 00:16:57,300 --> 00:16:58,620 play this. 315 00:16:58,620 --> 00:17:00,900 That's something that they might receive co-production credit 316 00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:02,580 for. 317 00:17:02,580 --> 00:17:07,100 But generally speaking, just the person who kind of makes the call 318 00:17:07,100 --> 00:17:15,740 on the overall sound of the song and the details that make it 319 00:17:15,740 --> 00:17:17,060 interesting, I think. 320 00:17:17,060 --> 00:17:18,060 Yeah. 321 00:17:18,060 --> 00:17:22,340 Another way to describe it for non-musicians who are listening 322 00:17:22,340 --> 00:17:26,820 is a producer would say, hey, don't play that guitar. 323 00:17:26,820 --> 00:17:28,300 Try this one. 324 00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:31,620 Yeah, don't use that amp. 325 00:17:31,620 --> 00:17:32,740 Try this one. 326 00:17:32,740 --> 00:17:36,620 Hey, what if we shortened the chorus just a little bit? 327 00:17:36,620 --> 00:17:40,500 Hey, what if you did a fade out on this song rather 328 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:41,780 than a hard stop? 329 00:17:41,780 --> 00:17:43,220 All of that stuff. 330 00:17:43,220 --> 00:17:50,060 They're kind of like the chef in orchestrating 331 00:17:50,060 --> 00:17:52,660 this dance in the kitchen. 332 00:17:52,660 --> 00:17:52,820 So-- 333 00:17:52,820 --> 00:17:53,660 Right, weak. 334 00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:54,700 Yeah. 335 00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:56,420 Those lines kind of blurt together for me 336 00:17:56,420 --> 00:18:00,580 because I'm the one man show on that. 337 00:18:00,580 --> 00:18:02,340 But generally speaking, that's how I would define it, 338 00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:04,100 is the guy who makes the executive decision 339 00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:09,860 on what the record sounds like, what how long it is, details. 340 00:18:09,860 --> 00:18:12,780 And that can vary because your mix engineer 341 00:18:12,780 --> 00:18:15,800 may lend an element to the mix that 342 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,420 lends to the production overall that you didn't think of. 343 00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:21,380 So they can kind of cross over, I think. 344 00:18:21,380 --> 00:18:23,060 Now, how did you-- 345 00:18:23,060 --> 00:18:27,740 So let's talk about your start as a producer 346 00:18:27,740 --> 00:18:30,060 and who some of your other clients have been. 347 00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:31,900 How did you get a start? 348 00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:33,780 And what are some of the other projects 349 00:18:33,780 --> 00:18:35,900 you've worked on? 350 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:38,500 Nothing super major, but my background believe it 351 00:18:38,500 --> 00:18:40,020 or not is in hip-hop production. 352 00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:41,060 I'm in my late 30s. 353 00:18:41,060 --> 00:18:46,740 And I've been making beats/music since I was about 15, 16 354 00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:48,420 years old. 355 00:18:48,420 --> 00:18:52,780 Started in FL Studio for elapses at that time. 356 00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:54,700 And just kind of grew throughout that. 357 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:59,540 But yeah, I provided a lot of instrumentation and beats 358 00:18:59,540 --> 00:19:02,500 and stuff for rappers and stuff in the area 359 00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:06,580 who kind of went on to be on compilations based out of Atlanta. 360 00:19:06,580 --> 00:19:12,340 There's one called A3C, I want to say that I was on in 2015 or 2016 361 00:19:12,340 --> 00:19:14,060 that I made a beat for. 362 00:19:14,060 --> 00:19:18,380 And just more local productions, but got to do an entire project 363 00:19:18,380 --> 00:19:23,540 with a rapper named Matt Monday in a buddy of mine named Dave. 364 00:19:23,540 --> 00:19:27,740 This never saw the light of day, but a lot of the tracks were-- 365 00:19:27,740 --> 00:19:31,060 we were kind of co-producing and recording engineering 366 00:19:31,060 --> 00:19:35,020 this project that Sonny Digital, who's another super famous 367 00:19:35,020 --> 00:19:38,540 Atlanta hip-hop producer, was working on. 368 00:19:38,540 --> 00:19:45,060 So that was kind of the-- essentially, that was one of the projects 369 00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:46,220 we got a chance to work on. 370 00:19:46,220 --> 00:19:48,900 And mostly it's been local stuff and kind of my own stuff 371 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:52,420 and changing styles and trying to determine if I want to be an artist 372 00:19:52,420 --> 00:19:55,060 or if I want to produce or how I want to sound. 373 00:19:55,060 --> 00:19:56,180 All that comes up. 374 00:19:56,180 --> 00:20:00,220 So is this something that you're able to do full time, 375 00:20:00,220 --> 00:20:03,220 part time, what is it for you? 376 00:20:03,220 --> 00:20:04,460 It's part time right now. 377 00:20:04,460 --> 00:20:08,580 I would love to transition that into a full time thing. 378 00:20:08,580 --> 00:20:10,740 It's just kind of a-- 379 00:20:10,740 --> 00:20:12,460 reality is, is Bill's got to happen. 380 00:20:12,460 --> 00:20:16,220 So you've got to have your job that allows you to-- 381 00:20:16,220 --> 00:20:17,820 allows for that. 382 00:20:17,820 --> 00:20:20,700 And that can be difficult finding the energy and stuff 383 00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:22,980 outside of that to then dedicate it to the music. 384 00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:26,220 So looking to transition it, but right now, it's part time. 385 00:20:26,220 --> 00:20:27,100 Yeah. 386 00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:29,340 Well, you know what's really cool is that I've 387 00:20:29,340 --> 00:20:32,580 started-- I mean, obviously you and Bobby have collaborated, 388 00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:35,500 but I think you guys go back to high school or something 389 00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:36,420 like that, right? 390 00:20:36,420 --> 00:20:38,100 Yeah, yeah, super. 391 00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:39,100 OK. 392 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:43,460 But there is starting to be some collaborations 393 00:20:43,460 --> 00:20:48,020 with within the value of all the Bitcoin musicians, 394 00:20:48,020 --> 00:20:49,220 collaborating on stuff. 395 00:20:49,220 --> 00:20:52,540 Case in point, like Manlite Quax, Susan Tanzania, 396 00:20:52,540 --> 00:20:54,380 and Joe Martin, who is in the UK, did 397 00:20:54,380 --> 00:20:57,180 a track with Richard, who's in San Francisco. 398 00:20:57,180 --> 00:20:57,700 Right? 399 00:20:57,700 --> 00:20:58,180 That's so cool. 400 00:20:58,180 --> 00:20:59,940 Yeah, so it's cool to see-- 401 00:20:59,940 --> 00:21:02,700 it's cool to see that stuff coming around. 402 00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:04,900 And I actually, just today, in the mail, 403 00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:11,180 I got a USB stick from another artist in the value 404 00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:13,460 risk with like 10 years of stuff. 405 00:21:13,460 --> 00:21:14,580 He's like, hey, take a listen. 406 00:21:14,580 --> 00:21:16,060 See if you want to take a whack at something. 407 00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:18,700 I'm like, woo, boy. 408 00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:22,860 There's a lot of stuff in there, and it's kind of daunting. 409 00:21:22,860 --> 00:21:27,580 But it's cool that we're meeting in this value for value 410 00:21:27,580 --> 00:21:31,420 space with the potential of doing some work together. 411 00:21:31,420 --> 00:21:35,180 So it's a lot more intimate, especially in the holidays. 412 00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:36,740 So it's pretty cool. 413 00:21:36,740 --> 00:21:37,820 I like that a lot. 414 00:21:37,820 --> 00:21:41,940 So I'm looking forward to see what happens after the expands. 415 00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:47,100 So back on that, producer vibe, like, who are-- 416 00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:52,940 give me five records, LP, long play. 417 00:21:52,940 --> 00:21:55,020 Give me five LP's that you're like, all right, 418 00:21:55,020 --> 00:21:58,140 this is the pinnacle of production. 419 00:21:58,140 --> 00:21:58,660 This is-- 420 00:21:58,660 --> 00:21:59,540 Oh, boy. 421 00:21:59,540 --> 00:22:00,500 Shit. 422 00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:02,580 Who are you going to really spend a lot of time on this? 423 00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:06,180 Oh, and by the way, your answers are going to be wrong. 424 00:22:06,180 --> 00:22:09,220 They might be, but I think I might really surprise you. 425 00:22:09,220 --> 00:22:09,820 You know what I mean? 426 00:22:09,820 --> 00:22:10,340 That's cool. 427 00:22:10,340 --> 00:22:11,180 That's like-- 428 00:22:11,180 --> 00:22:13,020 I've never got a lot of shit so far. 429 00:22:13,020 --> 00:22:15,100 But I mean, I'm talking about rap music in the ink spots. 430 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:16,580 So I doubt you're going to get-- 431 00:22:16,580 --> 00:22:18,660 Somebody else in the world who will do the same. 432 00:22:18,660 --> 00:22:19,860 Right on, I love it. 433 00:22:19,860 --> 00:22:21,220 Dude, yeah. 434 00:22:21,220 --> 00:22:23,820 Anybody that grows up listening to the Beatles and Nat King 435 00:22:23,820 --> 00:22:26,260 Cole in the ink spots, I'm like, OK, this is going 436 00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:28,620 to be a good conversation. 437 00:22:28,620 --> 00:22:30,380 So a lot of my personal tastes-- 438 00:22:30,380 --> 00:22:32,140 obviously, I love all the stuff I grew up on, 439 00:22:32,140 --> 00:22:34,020 but a lot of my personal tastes-- 440 00:22:34,020 --> 00:22:35,780 I'm a child of the '90s. 441 00:22:35,780 --> 00:22:39,380 I was born in the mid '80s, approaching my '40s, if you will. 442 00:22:39,380 --> 00:22:41,500 And so a lot of that stuff in the '90s 443 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:44,420 is what I'm probably going to really hammer on just 444 00:22:44,420 --> 00:22:46,740 because it's what I grew up with. 445 00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:50,700 So first and foremost, we're talking like production. 446 00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:51,220 Man. 447 00:22:53,780 --> 00:22:57,780 I would say "Siamese Dream" by the smashing pumpkins, 448 00:22:57,780 --> 00:23:00,300 which I'm in love with. 449 00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:01,220 I just love that sound. 450 00:23:01,220 --> 00:23:02,900 I think there's a lot of ear candy in there. 451 00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:03,900 It goes unnoticed. 452 00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:10,260 OK, computer by Radiohead. 453 00:23:10,260 --> 00:23:11,780 Well done. 454 00:23:11,780 --> 00:23:13,060 -Production. 455 00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:14,460 -Production. 456 00:23:14,460 --> 00:23:18,500 -XO by Elliott Smith. 457 00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:23,180 Probably one of my favorite musicians of all time. 458 00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:26,660 And I have a hard time kind of picking 459 00:23:26,660 --> 00:23:30,060 through the catalog on which is my favorite. 460 00:23:30,060 --> 00:23:33,900 But production was, I would say, XO. 461 00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:34,500 -There's three. 462 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:36,740 -My laugh at-- yeah, yeah, you might laugh at this one. 463 00:23:36,740 --> 00:23:39,060 I'd say "Boist 'em in" to-- 464 00:23:39,060 --> 00:23:41,740 it's fantastically produced and is an awesome record. 465 00:23:41,740 --> 00:23:44,860 But it was the first album that I ever owned. 466 00:23:44,860 --> 00:23:47,300 So "Boist 'em in" to-- 467 00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:49,300 and then lastly, I would say-- 468 00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:50,220 I can't leave this one out. 469 00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:56,340 So I'd say Andrew Bird's "The Mysterious Production of Eggs." 470 00:23:56,340 --> 00:23:59,860 -Wow, you're going deep there, dude. 471 00:23:59,860 --> 00:24:01,140 -I'm a music item, man. 472 00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:01,980 -Yeah. 473 00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:07,340 -Well, now, why are you hesitant to say "Boist 'em in"? 474 00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:10,860 I mean, "Filly Harmonies" man, they're killer. 475 00:24:10,860 --> 00:24:12,060 -Oh, no, it is killer. 476 00:24:12,060 --> 00:24:15,940 And I think that, you know, as I'm trying to find my sound 477 00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:17,900 as an artist and how I want to present myself, 478 00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:21,780 I'm finding a lot of nuances for music like that in the past. 479 00:24:21,780 --> 00:24:24,020 You know, a lot of Motown influence coming out 480 00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:28,300 and vocal patterns and the type of singing I'm doing, I think. 481 00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:32,340 But I think I maybe, first of all, it's a hard question. 482 00:24:32,340 --> 00:24:34,300 So "Picking Five" is really difficult. 483 00:24:34,300 --> 00:24:35,740 You want to pick the right ones. 484 00:24:35,740 --> 00:24:39,060 But I would say that-- 485 00:24:39,060 --> 00:24:43,100 I would say that it's also so different than everything 486 00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:44,900 else that I mentioned, you know what I mean? 487 00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:45,420 -Yeah. 488 00:24:45,420 --> 00:24:47,180 -Which is good, not about singing. 489 00:24:47,180 --> 00:24:48,180 Because I keep going. 490 00:24:48,180 --> 00:24:50,420 I can talk about how Jagged Little Pill is a masterpiece, 491 00:24:50,420 --> 00:24:51,020 you know what I mean? 492 00:24:51,020 --> 00:24:52,220 I could talk about how-- 493 00:24:52,220 --> 00:24:54,780 -And then howard produced that one, right? 494 00:24:54,780 --> 00:24:55,620 -Yeah, yeah, yeah. 495 00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:56,420 -I think so. 496 00:24:56,420 --> 00:24:58,620 -Who produced "Simey's Dream"? 497 00:24:58,620 --> 00:25:00,300 Did Billy produce that one? 498 00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:02,180 -I don't say there's "Butch Vague" on a lot of those records. 499 00:25:02,180 --> 00:25:03,020 -What's it for? 500 00:25:03,020 --> 00:25:05,620 -I feel like today in like "Soma" and a lot of those-- 501 00:25:05,620 --> 00:25:07,020 I know he has-- 502 00:25:07,020 --> 00:25:08,020 maybe it was the singles. 503 00:25:08,020 --> 00:25:10,700 I don't know if he executive produced any of it. 504 00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:12,060 It could have been one of those situations 505 00:25:12,060 --> 00:25:16,900 where some people had hands on some records or some songs. 506 00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:18,980 You know, I don't know the executive producer, 507 00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:23,780 but I just really like that version of the "Smashing Pumpkins" pre-- 508 00:25:23,780 --> 00:25:25,500 I love Mel and Colleen in the Infinite Sadness, too. 509 00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:31,980 It's one of my favorite records of all time, but I think there is a-- 510 00:25:31,980 --> 00:25:33,900 there's something very honest about "Simey's Dream" 511 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:37,660 that's stripped down and it kind of shows off the pumpkins kind 512 00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:41,740 of integrity as a band without this grandiose production, you know? 513 00:25:41,740 --> 00:25:42,660 -Yeah. 514 00:25:42,660 --> 00:25:48,060 -The success and big budgets really take the-- 515 00:25:48,060 --> 00:25:50,900 you know, they really dull the blade of the band. 516 00:25:50,900 --> 00:25:52,580 -You can squeeze the life out of them, for sure. 517 00:25:52,580 --> 00:25:53,700 -Yeah. 518 00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:54,700 -Yeah. 519 00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:57,020 -But yeah, I really like "Simey's Dream" 520 00:25:57,020 --> 00:25:58,620 and of course, Mel and Colleen was great, 521 00:25:58,620 --> 00:26:00,380 but I kind of feel that way about a couple. 522 00:26:00,380 --> 00:26:02,900 But like the first Coldplay record is my favorite Coldplay record. 523 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:04,980 I can't get past that, you know? 524 00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:08,820 Everything else feels a little too produced for me. 525 00:26:08,820 --> 00:26:09,900 It's not to say it's bad. 526 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:14,100 It's just I really enjoy one of my favorite things about music. 527 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:19,700 And I tell this to Bobby, too, a lot, is that when you're writing a song, 528 00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:21,500 you want it to be able to stand alone. 529 00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:24,020 Like, you want to be able to pick up a guitar and play the song 530 00:26:24,020 --> 00:26:26,980 and it still translates to your audience, you know what I mean? 531 00:26:26,980 --> 00:26:27,980 -Yeah. 532 00:26:27,980 --> 00:26:32,260 -You don't want the track itself to rely on the production 533 00:26:32,260 --> 00:26:35,340 to stitch it and hold it together, you know? 534 00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:36,940 -I completely know. 535 00:26:36,940 --> 00:26:41,420 And I completely agree with you. A good song is a good song. 536 00:26:41,420 --> 00:26:47,980 You should be able to translate that into several different genres. 537 00:26:47,980 --> 00:26:51,740 Case in point, nine inch nails and hurt. 538 00:26:51,740 --> 00:26:53,980 Hello, Johnny Cash, right? 539 00:26:53,980 --> 00:26:57,620 I mean, that's one of the best covers ever. 540 00:26:57,620 --> 00:26:59,100 -Yeah, absolutely. 541 00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:03,740 -I mean, the song has to stand on itself before the production part, 542 00:27:03,740 --> 00:27:05,380 before the production starts. 543 00:27:05,380 --> 00:27:08,500 Another great example, you mentioned Motown. 544 00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:12,060 A lot of the production on those songs, you know, in terms of technology 545 00:27:12,060 --> 00:27:16,500 and what not is very basic, there's really nothing interesting about the production. 546 00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:20,380 But my god, those songs are just absolutely perfect. 547 00:27:20,380 --> 00:27:21,820 -They're beautiful songs. 548 00:27:21,820 --> 00:27:22,420 -Yeah. 549 00:27:22,420 --> 00:27:23,900 -And that's what's... 550 00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:27,340 I don't know. I think that a good song, and this is not to... 551 00:27:27,340 --> 00:27:33,060 This is not to shit on like good production and like, you know, 552 00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:36,900 like a really good mixing or mastering, but I kind of think that like, 553 00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:42,100 if you deliver a good song, that's gonna stand out to the listener more than how well it's mixed. 554 00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:46,340 I mean, you can put lipstick on a pig all day long, but if the song sucks, I'm turning it off, you know? 555 00:27:46,340 --> 00:27:48,660 It's just...it is what it is. 556 00:27:48,660 --> 00:27:50,660 -Well, yeah, that's a great... 557 00:27:50,660 --> 00:27:54,020 You know, I've been having this conversation a lot with people recently. 558 00:27:54,020 --> 00:27:55,460 Like, what do you... 559 00:27:55,460 --> 00:28:01,700 You know, I mean, one of my favorite records of all time is Paddy Griffin. 560 00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:03,060 Living with ghosts. 561 00:28:03,060 --> 00:28:05,860 And it's just her and her guitar. That's it. 562 00:28:05,860 --> 00:28:14,100 And the back story is is like, you know, she cut a bunch of demos for... 563 00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:15,940 I think it was A&M. 564 00:28:15,940 --> 00:28:16,340 -Okay. 565 00:28:16,340 --> 00:28:19,380 -And they're like, "Your brilliant will get you deal. 566 00:28:19,380 --> 00:28:20,260 Let's go into the studio." 567 00:28:20,260 --> 00:28:22,980 And they did a full band version of all of it. 568 00:28:22,980 --> 00:28:25,220 And they scrapped the whole thing and just said, "Strew it. 569 00:28:25,220 --> 00:28:26,980 We're going with the original demo." 570 00:28:26,980 --> 00:28:29,460 Like, demos that she cut in her bathroom. 571 00:28:29,460 --> 00:28:33,140 Like, literally, in the bridge of one of the songs you can hear, 572 00:28:33,140 --> 00:28:35,940 you can hear an ambulance going down the street. 573 00:28:35,940 --> 00:28:36,900 -Yeah. 574 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:37,780 -But like... 575 00:28:37,780 --> 00:28:38,900 -It's funny you mentioned that. 576 00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:39,940 Yeah, because it's like... 577 00:28:39,940 --> 00:28:41,860 One of my biggest fears is going to an engineer, 578 00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:45,060 like a real engineer, and like dumping a bunch of money into a record and getting it back 579 00:28:45,060 --> 00:28:46,420 and being like, "I like my demo better." 580 00:28:46,420 --> 00:28:47,220 You know what I mean? 581 00:28:47,220 --> 00:28:48,260 -Yeah, yeah, yeah. 582 00:28:48,260 --> 00:28:49,460 I totally have that. 583 00:28:49,460 --> 00:28:53,300 Well, what do you think is an example of a record where the songs are great, 584 00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:54,580 but the production sucks? 585 00:28:54,580 --> 00:28:56,980 -I mean, I think that's... 586 00:28:56,980 --> 00:28:57,940 -I mean, I think that's... 587 00:28:57,940 --> 00:28:58,580 -You'd call out any artists. 588 00:28:58,580 --> 00:28:59,620 -But I mean, I think... 589 00:28:59,620 --> 00:29:06,020 -Yeah, you know, in Motown, you can't help that because they didn't really have the great 590 00:29:06,020 --> 00:29:08,580 production as we do now, but like modern stuff. 591 00:29:08,580 --> 00:29:11,300 -Man, yeah, and that's the thing is it's... 592 00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:17,380 I don't want to show my age here, but I feel like modern-day pop music is a good example of that. 593 00:29:17,380 --> 00:29:19,460 The songs are very canned, you know what I mean? 594 00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:24,340 It's like they're not too compressed. 595 00:29:24,340 --> 00:29:27,940 -Me of that, but I just mean the records themselves 596 00:29:27,940 --> 00:29:29,220 are... 597 00:29:29,220 --> 00:29:30,820 I don't know. 598 00:29:30,820 --> 00:29:35,780 I kind of feel like we've reached a point in modern-pot music where a lot of the artists 599 00:29:35,780 --> 00:29:36,660 are... 600 00:29:36,660 --> 00:29:38,260 We can't really tell who's who. 601 00:29:38,260 --> 00:29:39,140 They all sound the same. 602 00:29:39,140 --> 00:29:41,460 It's like music has become very formulaic and... 603 00:29:41,460 --> 00:29:43,940 And, um... 604 00:29:43,940 --> 00:29:48,260 You know, in the present day, if you will. 605 00:29:48,260 --> 00:29:53,940 -I believe that to be absolutely true with male country artists. 606 00:29:53,940 --> 00:29:55,460 -Yeah. 607 00:29:55,460 --> 00:30:00,020 I've met explicitly more with female pop artists. 608 00:30:00,020 --> 00:30:03,220 I can't tell the difference between like, Doa Lipa and like, you know... 609 00:30:03,220 --> 00:30:07,380 Like another artist singing something similar. 610 00:30:07,380 --> 00:30:09,780 You know, it's not that it's a bad record, but it's just... 611 00:30:09,780 --> 00:30:10,900 It's, uh... 612 00:30:10,900 --> 00:30:14,020 -I don't know. 613 00:30:14,020 --> 00:30:14,740 -It's similar. 614 00:30:14,740 --> 00:30:16,500 Same beats, same compression. 615 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:17,940 -Yeah. 616 00:30:17,940 --> 00:30:20,660 And you've seen the YouTube videos that are like, you know, 617 00:30:20,660 --> 00:30:23,300 every popular song is comprised of these four chords. 618 00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:24,260 Yeah. 619 00:30:24,260 --> 00:30:25,300 -I can't help. 620 00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:26,660 -I mean, they strum through and play. 621 00:30:26,660 --> 00:30:29,940 And, I mean, I find that that's true of most things, but, you know, 622 00:30:29,940 --> 00:30:33,620 there's that aspect of it, but it's also a lot of it's being mixed the same way, which... 623 00:30:33,620 --> 00:30:34,340 It sounds great. 624 00:30:34,340 --> 00:30:35,460 But it just... 625 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:37,140 It's very bright. 626 00:30:37,140 --> 00:30:38,260 It's very in your face. 627 00:30:38,260 --> 00:30:38,900 It's very, um... 628 00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:41,300 Yeah, I don't know. 629 00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:42,820 It's an interesting question. 630 00:30:42,820 --> 00:30:44,820 I'd have to think about it a little more to answer it honestly. 631 00:30:44,820 --> 00:30:44,980 But... 632 00:30:44,980 --> 00:30:45,460 -Yeah, I know. 633 00:30:45,460 --> 00:30:46,580 -That's not to, again, shit on it. 634 00:30:46,580 --> 00:30:50,100 You know, or take away from female pop musicians. 635 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:52,260 I'd, you know, think there's a place for everything. 636 00:30:53,220 --> 00:30:57,060 It's just generally speaking, I've kind of noticed that, you know, it's a good example. 637 00:30:57,060 --> 00:31:00,180 You get a lot of songs these days that are mixed extremely well. 638 00:31:00,180 --> 00:31:02,980 But they're kind of... 639 00:31:02,980 --> 00:31:06,580 They're no different than what you heard a month ago, you know? 640 00:31:06,580 --> 00:31:07,860 Yeah. 641 00:31:07,860 --> 00:31:09,540 I do... 642 00:31:09,540 --> 00:31:11,460 I've been kind of feeling... 643 00:31:11,460 --> 00:31:17,780 for a while now that like, what were on the verge of another massive breakthrough? 644 00:31:17,780 --> 00:31:21,620 I don't know if it's another genre. 645 00:31:21,620 --> 00:31:22,660 I don't know if it's another... 646 00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:24,660 breakout artist like... 647 00:31:24,660 --> 00:31:26,900 like Nirvana, you know? 648 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:28,020 But like, I was in... 649 00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:32,180 I was finishing up college right when Nirvana broke and it was, you know... 650 00:31:32,180 --> 00:31:33,860 Yeah. 651 00:31:33,860 --> 00:31:38,020 It was ground shaking because we're really coming out of the boy band, 652 00:31:38,020 --> 00:31:39,620 era into... 653 00:31:39,620 --> 00:31:43,620 Here's a busted up-finder Mustang, you know, in a Marshall that... 654 00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:44,900 -The Jack's thing, or... 655 00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:49,140 -Yeah, you know, in a Marshall that barely works cranked 211, right? 656 00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:52,580 You've got me a little mad at myself mentioning Nirvana because now I'm thinking about my 657 00:31:52,580 --> 00:31:53,860 five list and it's... 658 00:31:53,860 --> 00:31:57,300 There are just so many other bands that I want to talk about, you know, 659 00:31:57,300 --> 00:31:59,300 Nirvana, Fortissette, and stuff. 660 00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:06,020 But I'm really surprised we haven't had like a breakout... 661 00:32:06,020 --> 00:32:09,860 genre, like something new... 662 00:32:09,860 --> 00:32:12,980 And I don't know, maybe I missed it because I'm... 663 00:32:12,980 --> 00:32:16,180 I'm old, older and stuck in my ways. 664 00:32:16,180 --> 00:32:17,540 But... 665 00:32:17,540 --> 00:32:20,580 And especially too, like, I think, you know, like... 666 00:32:20,580 --> 00:32:21,380 When you... 667 00:32:21,380 --> 00:32:26,340 Like, if you think about how politics and music intersect with each other, 668 00:32:26,340 --> 00:32:29,780 you know, you can talk about, you know, 669 00:32:29,780 --> 00:32:34,260 hippie rock in the '60s and you can see how they come together. 670 00:32:34,260 --> 00:32:38,500 You can talk about thatcher and Reagan and you can see how punk comes together. 671 00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:40,020 Right. 672 00:32:40,020 --> 00:32:43,460 And then I think you could make the argument that making... 673 00:32:43,460 --> 00:32:47,220 When the country made the transition from Obama to Trump, you're like, 674 00:32:48,180 --> 00:32:52,020 "I think there's gonna be some pretty big bands coming out of this." 675 00:32:52,020 --> 00:32:54,020 And I'm like... 676 00:32:54,020 --> 00:32:54,980 There's nothing. 677 00:32:54,980 --> 00:32:55,940 You know what I mean? 678 00:32:55,940 --> 00:32:57,700 I mean, it's been a weird couple of years though. 679 00:32:57,700 --> 00:32:58,500 You know what I mean? 680 00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:00,260 Like, regardless of that, it's just like... 681 00:33:00,260 --> 00:33:05,060 We've also endured this crazy pandemic and all kinds of other stuff that really could play into it. 682 00:33:05,060 --> 00:33:05,540 I don't know. 683 00:33:05,540 --> 00:33:08,660 I would expect that the conditions would have brought out... 684 00:33:08,660 --> 00:33:09,780 They would have brought out something... 685 00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:11,460 That was just about it, it was about to correct myself. 686 00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:12,180 You're right. 687 00:33:12,180 --> 00:33:12,500 Yeah. 688 00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:16,180 People being sequestered, you would kind of expect that... 689 00:33:16,180 --> 00:33:17,940 That maybe we would have gotten something different. 690 00:33:17,940 --> 00:33:18,420 I don't know. 691 00:33:18,420 --> 00:33:20,260 There were some cool music coming out around that time. 692 00:33:20,260 --> 00:33:22,980 You know, that's all subjective. 693 00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:25,140 You know, saying what's gonna be bigger, huge is... 694 00:33:25,140 --> 00:33:26,820 There's never like... 695 00:33:26,820 --> 00:33:30,580 There's never gonna be a unanimous vote on that. 696 00:33:30,580 --> 00:33:34,100 You know, I think it's hard to think about... 697 00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:36,980 They're being an artist as big as like... 698 00:33:36,980 --> 00:33:41,460 You know, like the Beatles or Nirvana or something to that. 699 00:33:41,460 --> 00:33:43,620 Even Taylor Swift. 700 00:33:43,620 --> 00:33:43,940 I mean... 701 00:33:43,940 --> 00:33:45,300 Yeah, for sure. 702 00:33:45,300 --> 00:33:46,260 But I guess... 703 00:33:46,260 --> 00:33:48,420 My thing with Taylor Swift is she's so polarizing. 704 00:33:48,420 --> 00:33:49,540 It's like I think you find... 705 00:33:49,540 --> 00:33:52,900 Describing the other two bands like Nirvana and the Beatles, especially. 706 00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:55,060 There are people who dislike them, but by and large, 707 00:33:55,060 --> 00:33:57,780 you're gonna find more people who like them than don't like them. 708 00:33:57,780 --> 00:34:00,180 I kind of feel that a lot of the popular artists of today... 709 00:34:00,180 --> 00:34:01,700 They get a bad rap and that sucks. 710 00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:05,940 You know, I don't listen to a ton of Taylor Swift on my own, 711 00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:07,300 but I appreciate what she does. 712 00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:10,740 And I think that that translates to a ton of people, you know what I mean? 713 00:34:10,740 --> 00:34:10,980 Yeah. 714 00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:13,300 It obviously works. 715 00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:14,260 I mean, my God. 716 00:34:15,060 --> 00:34:19,060 You fly across the world and you go on a different continent 717 00:34:19,060 --> 00:34:24,020 and you sell out four nights at 90,000 people a pop 718 00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:24,900 and you're gonna sit there. 719 00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:28,100 Your tour is like boosting the world economy. 720 00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:28,900 It's no... 721 00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:31,860 And I'm sorry, you're gonna say that for music sucks. 722 00:34:31,860 --> 00:34:33,140 Yeah. 723 00:34:33,140 --> 00:34:34,980 Look, you don't have to like it. 724 00:34:34,980 --> 00:34:35,940 That's not the point. 725 00:34:35,940 --> 00:34:40,260 Yeah, I'm a big fan of staying away from like this sucks or that sucks. 726 00:34:40,260 --> 00:34:43,940 I'm probably too a degree that's annoying because like I like what I like, 727 00:34:43,940 --> 00:34:46,500 but I'm never gonna be like, I don't know. 728 00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:49,540 The internet is the most powerful tool we have 729 00:34:49,540 --> 00:34:52,100 and it's like the worst thing on the planet at the same time. 730 00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:52,820 You know... 731 00:34:52,820 --> 00:34:57,060 That's pool of powers who hide behind fake names. 732 00:34:57,060 --> 00:34:57,780 100%. 733 00:34:57,780 --> 00:35:00,180 But it's also full of useful information. 734 00:35:00,180 --> 00:35:00,980 Absolutely. 735 00:35:00,980 --> 00:35:04,260 So it's really a tool that you, you know, 736 00:35:04,260 --> 00:35:05,540 you have to take the good with the bad, 737 00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:10,740 but generally speaking, I just feel like it's a place where people can go and like 738 00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:15,620 pretend that their opinion has more volume than it actually does, you know? 739 00:35:15,620 --> 00:35:15,860 Yeah. 740 00:35:15,860 --> 00:35:17,300 And I hate that. 741 00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:21,060 It's like, you know, the beauty of music and this is going to sound really cliche 742 00:35:21,060 --> 00:35:23,300 and more cliches end for my life as I get older. 743 00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:26,020 I'm assuming that's only going to continue, but... 744 00:35:26,020 --> 00:35:30,820 You know, it's just... 745 00:35:30,820 --> 00:35:32,340 I don't know. 746 00:35:32,340 --> 00:35:33,620 Music's all subjective. 747 00:35:33,620 --> 00:35:34,020 It's all subjective. 748 00:35:34,020 --> 00:35:34,820 Everybody together. 749 00:35:34,820 --> 00:35:35,380 You know? 750 00:35:35,380 --> 00:35:36,100 It's subjective. 751 00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:37,460 There's no right or wrong to it. 752 00:35:37,460 --> 00:35:37,860 And it's like... 753 00:35:37,860 --> 00:35:40,980 And that's what I steal your joy. 754 00:35:40,980 --> 00:35:43,940 Like, what kind of a person would I be at a steal to take that away from you? 755 00:35:43,940 --> 00:35:44,260 That's... 756 00:35:44,260 --> 00:35:44,340 That's... 757 00:35:44,340 --> 00:35:44,500 Yeah. 758 00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:45,060 That's... 759 00:35:45,060 --> 00:35:45,860 Yeah. 760 00:35:45,860 --> 00:35:46,500 And it's... 761 00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:53,140 And I love discussions about favorite bands and favorite artists and things like that, 762 00:35:53,140 --> 00:35:54,740 because, you know, it... 763 00:35:54,740 --> 00:35:58,100 It really helps you get to know the other person. 764 00:35:58,100 --> 00:35:59,460 Yeah. 765 00:35:59,460 --> 00:36:00,180 You know? 766 00:36:00,180 --> 00:36:00,980 And there's too... 767 00:36:00,980 --> 00:36:02,260 There's so much joy in that. 768 00:36:02,260 --> 00:36:05,540 Like, you know, like Dave Grohl said, like, "Lip, you know, like we do a three hour show, 769 00:36:05,540 --> 00:36:07,620 there's 15,000 people in the room." 770 00:36:07,620 --> 00:36:09,380 And he's like, "Everybody's there to have a good time. 771 00:36:09,380 --> 00:36:10,340 I don't care if you... 772 00:36:10,340 --> 00:36:11,380 If you... 773 00:36:11,380 --> 00:36:15,140 If you prayed a Buddha, or if you prayed a Peyton Manning, 774 00:36:15,140 --> 00:36:17,460 I don't care if you're a Republican or a Democrat, 775 00:36:17,460 --> 00:36:19,860 like whatever, like, we're there to have a good time, you know? 776 00:36:19,860 --> 00:36:21,780 And that's what music does. 777 00:36:21,780 --> 00:36:23,060 It brings everybody together. 778 00:36:23,060 --> 00:36:24,100 And... 779 00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:24,580 Yeah. 780 00:36:24,580 --> 00:36:26,340 It's, you know, yeah. 781 00:36:26,340 --> 00:36:29,540 It's been the greatest gift in my life. 782 00:36:29,540 --> 00:36:30,340 The... 783 00:36:30,340 --> 00:36:30,580 Yeah. 784 00:36:30,580 --> 00:36:31,380 Sure. 785 00:36:31,380 --> 00:36:34,340 Well, and it tastes, you know, changes over time for everybody, 786 00:36:34,340 --> 00:36:36,660 but I'm really, you know, I think that's... 787 00:36:36,660 --> 00:36:39,540 To get back to the cliche part of it, 788 00:36:39,540 --> 00:36:41,140 I think that's the beauty of the music, 789 00:36:41,140 --> 00:36:42,340 is that it is so subjective, 790 00:36:42,340 --> 00:36:44,900 and like, what makes you take is not going to necessarily 791 00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:46,100 make the next person tick. 792 00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:47,780 It's just, you know, 793 00:36:47,780 --> 00:36:49,780 Yeah. 794 00:36:49,780 --> 00:36:51,140 Some people listen to sad music, 795 00:36:51,140 --> 00:36:51,860 and they're just like, 796 00:36:51,860 --> 00:36:54,100 "This sucks, turn it off, it's making me sad." 797 00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:56,100 Some people, like, listen to sad music, 798 00:36:56,100 --> 00:36:58,820 and it feels like electricity charging through their body 799 00:36:58,820 --> 00:36:59,780 when they hear it, you know? 800 00:36:59,780 --> 00:37:00,180 It's... 801 00:37:00,180 --> 00:37:01,060 That's me. 802 00:37:01,060 --> 00:37:01,780 That's what's happening to me. 803 00:37:01,780 --> 00:37:02,020 I'm listening to the... 804 00:37:02,020 --> 00:37:03,620 I am too, yeah. 805 00:37:03,620 --> 00:37:06,180 Are you familiar with "Pajor the Lion"? 806 00:37:06,180 --> 00:37:07,060 Yeah. 807 00:37:07,060 --> 00:37:08,100 David Bison. 808 00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:10,260 I was listening to a song at his the other day in a grocery store, 809 00:37:10,260 --> 00:37:11,060 and I was just like, 810 00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:11,620 "Welling up." 811 00:37:11,620 --> 00:37:12,580 I'm like, "I gotta get out of here." 812 00:37:12,580 --> 00:37:13,380 You know? 813 00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:13,860 You know? 814 00:37:13,860 --> 00:37:14,980 I need a moment. 815 00:37:14,980 --> 00:37:16,500 But yeah, but it's like some other people... 816 00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:17,060 I sent... 817 00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:19,780 There was a girl I was talking to months ago, 818 00:37:19,780 --> 00:37:21,620 and she was like, "What's your favorite song?" 819 00:37:21,620 --> 00:37:23,060 And I sent her like, "One of my favorite songs." 820 00:37:23,060 --> 00:37:24,340 She was like, "This is so depressing." 821 00:37:24,340 --> 00:37:28,740 I just realized that it's not gonna be forever. 822 00:37:28,740 --> 00:37:30,180 Yeah, I mean, it kind of went that way, 823 00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:32,980 but not immediately, but, you know, it went south. 824 00:37:32,980 --> 00:37:33,220 And... 825 00:37:33,220 --> 00:37:36,260 She, um... 826 00:37:36,260 --> 00:37:37,140 You know, she didn't appreciate it, 827 00:37:37,140 --> 00:37:37,700 and that's cool. 828 00:37:37,700 --> 00:37:39,860 I can't be mad at that, you know? 829 00:37:39,860 --> 00:37:40,660 Yeah. 830 00:37:40,660 --> 00:37:43,060 I think it's really important, 831 00:37:43,060 --> 00:37:47,140 and I try to teach this to younger musicians. 832 00:37:47,140 --> 00:37:47,620 It's like... 833 00:37:47,620 --> 00:37:50,980 It's okay if you don't care for their music. 834 00:37:50,980 --> 00:37:51,700 That's fine. 835 00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:52,580 Yeah. 836 00:37:52,580 --> 00:37:55,380 But if they're successful, 837 00:37:55,380 --> 00:38:00,660 they probably worked their ass off to get it. 838 00:38:00,660 --> 00:38:05,140 There are a very few amount of lucky people, 839 00:38:05,140 --> 00:38:09,300 lottery winners, American Idol winners, who go on to huge success, 840 00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:11,780 and their talent has sustained them. 841 00:38:11,780 --> 00:38:14,020 Carrie Underwood is a great example of that. 842 00:38:14,020 --> 00:38:14,740 Yeah. 843 00:38:14,740 --> 00:38:19,300 You know, despite the fact that she was an American Idol winner, 844 00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:22,420 most people don't know her history of playing local gigs and whatnot, 845 00:38:22,420 --> 00:38:25,140 but the most important thing is that her talent has sustained her. 846 00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:28,900 But it's okay if you don't like the music, 847 00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:32,180 but if they're successful, you gotta respect the hustle, right? 848 00:38:32,180 --> 00:38:32,580 Like... 849 00:38:32,580 --> 00:38:33,300 100%. 850 00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:33,940 Like... 851 00:38:33,940 --> 00:38:34,500 I don't... 852 00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:38,020 I don't like the music of KISS at all. 853 00:38:38,020 --> 00:38:40,660 I just think it's boring as hell. 854 00:38:40,660 --> 00:38:44,660 But do I have mad respect for them for what they did for rock and roll 855 00:38:44,660 --> 00:38:47,940 from a marketing perspective and from a stage perspective? 856 00:38:47,940 --> 00:38:50,980 Think of all the people in the audience and how excited they are to be there. 857 00:38:50,980 --> 00:38:51,620 You know what I mean? 858 00:38:51,620 --> 00:38:51,940 And that's... 859 00:38:51,940 --> 00:38:52,420 Yeah. 860 00:38:52,420 --> 00:38:52,980 That's kind of... 861 00:38:52,980 --> 00:38:53,460 I'm with you. 862 00:38:53,460 --> 00:38:54,500 I don't listen to KISS. 863 00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:55,220 It's a little... 864 00:38:55,220 --> 00:38:57,300 It's more novel for me, you know? 865 00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:57,700 But it's... 866 00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:00,580 Again, it's just kind of like... 867 00:39:00,580 --> 00:39:01,540 Why take... 868 00:39:01,540 --> 00:39:03,780 Why rob somebody of a... 869 00:39:03,780 --> 00:39:05,540 Listen, it's hard enough to... 870 00:39:05,540 --> 00:39:11,860 to work our jobs and to have our lives and to go through pandemics and to have, you know, 871 00:39:11,860 --> 00:39:14,180 discourse throughout our country and... 872 00:39:14,180 --> 00:39:18,740 then on top of it to have people telling you that the shit that you like sucks, you know? 873 00:39:18,740 --> 00:39:20,100 It's just like, "Wow." 874 00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:20,820 It's not... 875 00:39:20,820 --> 00:39:21,940 It's not productive, man. 876 00:39:21,940 --> 00:39:24,420 And it's kind of honestly going back to what you're saying, 877 00:39:24,420 --> 00:39:28,180 telling a young band that they suck or their sound sucks 878 00:39:28,180 --> 00:39:29,620 might make them put the instrument down. 879 00:39:29,620 --> 00:39:31,220 And then what music... 880 00:39:31,220 --> 00:39:33,220 What music at that point are we being robbed of? 881 00:39:33,220 --> 00:39:36,500 You know, maybe they were going to write this next record that was going to be fantastic 882 00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:37,940 and we'll never know, you know? 883 00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:41,060 So I mean, deterring people from being creative, 884 00:39:41,060 --> 00:39:45,220 especially when I know how much joy that's brought me in the life or alleviated, 885 00:39:45,220 --> 00:39:48,180 you know, stresses or pains that I've been going through, 886 00:39:48,180 --> 00:39:50,340 I would never want to take that away from somebody else. 887 00:39:50,340 --> 00:39:52,260 Yeah, it's a... 888 00:39:52,260 --> 00:39:56,020 It's a pretty shitty thing to be a creator 889 00:39:56,020 --> 00:39:59,300 and to be shitty to other people about their creation. 890 00:39:59,300 --> 00:40:00,020 100%. 891 00:40:00,020 --> 00:40:01,380 The world needs more art. 892 00:40:01,380 --> 00:40:02,820 Yeah. 893 00:40:03,140 --> 00:40:03,780 You know? 894 00:40:03,780 --> 00:40:05,140 And that's kind of... 895 00:40:05,140 --> 00:40:09,140 And I love what value for value is doing 896 00:40:09,140 --> 00:40:13,300 in terms of somebody hearing your song and be like, 897 00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:15,540 "Damn, dude, this dude reminds me of Bobby Colwell." 898 00:40:15,540 --> 00:40:16,500 Boom, there's 20 bucks. 899 00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:16,900 Yeah. 900 00:40:16,900 --> 00:40:18,020 Like... 901 00:40:18,020 --> 00:40:19,540 Yeah, I had to look at Bobby Colwell when I heard it. 902 00:40:19,540 --> 00:40:22,260 And I was just like, "I know this song and this is that's a huge compliment. 903 00:40:22,260 --> 00:40:23,140 I can hear it immediately. 904 00:40:23,140 --> 00:40:23,940 It was pretty cool." 905 00:40:23,940 --> 00:40:25,060 That was... 906 00:40:25,060 --> 00:40:28,580 That was my born in 1970s reference, sorry. 907 00:40:30,900 --> 00:40:32,260 No, I really dig... 908 00:40:32,260 --> 00:40:35,460 I dig hearing the input because, you know, you never really... 909 00:40:35,460 --> 00:40:40,580 or I never really know what sound I'm going for, you know? 910 00:40:40,580 --> 00:40:41,620 And it's kind of like... 911 00:40:41,620 --> 00:40:43,540 It's not super intentional. 912 00:40:43,540 --> 00:40:45,220 It's just in the moment like, "This is how I feel. 913 00:40:45,220 --> 00:40:46,580 This is what I wanted to sound like." 914 00:40:46,580 --> 00:40:48,500 So, you know, hearing the comparisons, 915 00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:52,420 they just open my eyes and ears up to things that I didn't necessarily consider 916 00:40:52,420 --> 00:40:54,580 when I was putting stuff together, you know? 917 00:40:54,580 --> 00:40:56,900 So that's extremely valuable, you know? 918 00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:57,140 Yeah. 919 00:40:57,140 --> 00:40:58,900 Well, how did you... 920 00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:02,980 I mean, I think if you and Bobby have been, for instance, high school, 921 00:41:02,980 --> 00:41:06,500 it's probably pretty obvious how you got orange-filled and brought into this. 922 00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:08,100 Right? 923 00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:10,420 Yeah, that's extremely... 924 00:41:10,420 --> 00:41:11,380 That's Bobby, man. 925 00:41:11,380 --> 00:41:11,620 Yeah. 926 00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:13,620 That's what you know. 927 00:41:13,620 --> 00:41:18,660 For those who don't know, Bobby Shell works for a company called Voltage, 928 00:41:18,660 --> 00:41:22,340 which provides lightning services with respect to Bitcoin payments. 929 00:41:22,340 --> 00:41:24,980 They are a fantastic company. 930 00:41:26,420 --> 00:41:29,300 And just for full disclosure, as we... 931 00:41:29,300 --> 00:41:32,340 I don't know if we said it in the green room or we said it actually in the show, 932 00:41:32,340 --> 00:41:33,060 but I did... 933 00:41:33,060 --> 00:41:34,580 I mean, I had coffee with Bobby this week. 934 00:41:34,580 --> 00:41:36,420 He was in town for a meeting. 935 00:41:36,420 --> 00:41:37,140 And I actually... 936 00:41:37,140 --> 00:41:42,420 My family works with Voltage with respect to nodes and things like that. 937 00:41:42,420 --> 00:41:43,380 So, love those guys. 938 00:41:43,380 --> 00:41:43,620 Yeah. 939 00:41:43,620 --> 00:41:44,980 Do a hell of a job. 940 00:41:44,980 --> 00:41:48,580 Shout out to Nate with Voltage down in Texas. 941 00:41:48,580 --> 00:41:49,300 Dude, it's amazing. 942 00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:51,780 But... 943 00:41:51,780 --> 00:41:54,260 So, what's your take now on... 944 00:41:54,260 --> 00:41:56,980 Now that you've been in the value verse for about a month and... 945 00:41:56,980 --> 00:41:58,100 You know, like... 946 00:41:58,100 --> 00:42:04,820 How do you compare seeing the reactions to your music in the value verse versus St. 947 00:42:04,820 --> 00:42:09,860 and versus the reactions that you get on Instagram or Spotify or whatever? 948 00:42:09,860 --> 00:42:11,300 Yeah. 949 00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:12,500 The... 950 00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:13,300 The major... 951 00:42:13,300 --> 00:42:17,300 So, first of all, I just want to say I like the idea so much as it involves musicians 952 00:42:17,300 --> 00:42:18,900 who are obviously busting their ass and... 953 00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:21,540 You know, trying to both be heard and... 954 00:42:22,260 --> 00:42:25,540 You know, compensated by people who actually appreciate the music. 955 00:42:25,540 --> 00:42:29,060 You know, and I think that that alone is just unbelievable. 956 00:42:29,060 --> 00:42:30,180 It gives you a sense of... 957 00:42:30,180 --> 00:42:33,940 I don't know, it's having a conversation with Bobby the other day where I was just like... 958 00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:37,220 You know, it's great that this song's been out a month and... 959 00:42:37,220 --> 00:42:40,420 You know, mom loves it and my friends love it. 960 00:42:40,420 --> 00:42:43,700 But, you know, when it gets introduced to the ears of people who don't know you 961 00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:47,220 and you start kind of hearing positive feedback or... 962 00:42:47,220 --> 00:42:47,860 You know what I mean? 963 00:42:47,860 --> 00:42:50,740 Just opportunities keep opening doors and... 964 00:42:50,740 --> 00:42:54,180 Or opportunities just to keep showing up. 965 00:42:54,180 --> 00:42:55,380 You know, I guess. 966 00:42:55,380 --> 00:42:56,260 Yeah. 967 00:42:56,260 --> 00:42:58,420 Randomly and that's just a... 968 00:42:58,420 --> 00:43:00,420 I don't know, it's pretty cool, man. 969 00:43:00,420 --> 00:43:02,260 It allows you to kind of gauge... 970 00:43:02,260 --> 00:43:06,900 You know, your audience and engage with them. 971 00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:12,180 And I guess, you know, the larger platform is it's easier to get kind of... 972 00:43:12,180 --> 00:43:14,500 swallowed up. 973 00:43:14,500 --> 00:43:16,180 The numbers on Spotify were good. 974 00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:19,620 I made like a TikTok playlist, I think, the first week, which was really pretty cool. 975 00:43:19,620 --> 00:43:20,980 Damn, dude, that's rare. 976 00:43:20,980 --> 00:43:21,620 Good for you. 977 00:43:21,620 --> 00:43:26,340 Yeah, so I got like 5,000 or so maybe plays in Spotify out the gate. 978 00:43:26,340 --> 00:43:29,460 It's tapered since, but I'm kind of hopeful that maybe we can snowball it again. 979 00:43:29,460 --> 00:43:32,100 So, yeah, I mean... 980 00:43:32,100 --> 00:43:34,260 Was this your first release on Spotify? 981 00:43:34,260 --> 00:43:37,860 No, so I think maybe I mentioned it to you... 982 00:43:37,860 --> 00:43:42,500 Separate from our conversation today, but I had some stuff up and I just... 983 00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:45,620 There was no continuity there and I was like, I want to rebrand and so I kind of stripped 984 00:43:45,620 --> 00:43:48,580 my artist's stages and just started from scratch. 985 00:43:49,300 --> 00:43:55,140 But, you know, in the past I had released songs and they just didn't see that same kind of success, you know. 986 00:43:55,140 --> 00:44:01,220 I don't know whose notifications start dinging off when a new song is uploaded, 987 00:44:01,220 --> 00:44:03,060 but it got noticed relatively quickly. 988 00:44:03,060 --> 00:44:07,780 You know, my DSP didn't really do a whole lot of pitching. 989 00:44:07,780 --> 00:44:10,740 I never got a notification from them that said like, "Hey, you know, 990 00:44:10,740 --> 00:44:12,820 fresh finds, want your song or whatever." 991 00:44:12,820 --> 00:44:17,940 But I just kind of like looked at the numbers when I got access to my artist page and I was like, 992 00:44:17,940 --> 00:44:18,900 "Damn, it's pretty cool." 993 00:44:18,900 --> 00:44:25,060 So it's moving, but it's still your face gets lost and it's been in that, you know, 994 00:44:25,060 --> 00:44:26,500 your face in the crowd. 995 00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:33,940 And, you know, it's good to see that doing some kind of numbers over there, but I think you get 996 00:44:33,940 --> 00:44:36,580 a lot more, you know, I think, in the intimates the word, 997 00:44:36,580 --> 00:44:42,660 intimate and honest interaction with people within the valueverse and I just find out to be 998 00:44:42,660 --> 00:44:43,060 pretty cool. 999 00:44:43,060 --> 00:44:46,260 Yeah, an opportunity like this. 1000 00:44:46,260 --> 00:44:48,260 You know what I mean? Like, Yeah! 1001 00:44:48,260 --> 00:44:48,260 You know? 1002 00:44:48,260 --> 00:44:53,460 Interviewing with you and having people review your song and, you know, having a chance to potentially land on, 1003 00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:55,620 you know, the Bitcoin record, stuff like that. 1004 00:44:55,620 --> 00:44:56,900 You know, that's a big deal. 1005 00:44:56,900 --> 00:44:56,900 Yeah. 1006 00:44:56,900 --> 00:44:57,940 Yeah. 1007 00:44:57,940 --> 00:44:57,940 Yeah. 1008 00:44:57,940 --> 00:44:58,740 Yeah. 1009 00:44:58,740 --> 00:45:02,420 Who are you using for distribution like district kid or symphonic or who you're using? 1010 00:45:02,420 --> 00:45:03,780 TuneCork. 1011 00:45:03,780 --> 00:45:05,300 Oh, TuneCork. 1012 00:45:05,300 --> 00:45:06,180 Oh, okay. 1013 00:45:06,180 --> 00:45:10,740 Yeah, I went district kid for a little while, and I just, I don't know why I switched, it was after I pulled 1014 00:45:10,740 --> 00:45:15,380 everything down. I was like, you know, I had a friend who did some distribution through TuneCork. 1015 00:45:15,780 --> 00:45:18,500 And, uh, yeah, I mean, it's fine. 1016 00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:19,780 You know, they're all kind of similar. 1017 00:45:19,780 --> 00:45:21,060 They're the liaison, you know? 1018 00:45:21,060 --> 00:45:25,940 To my understanding though, when you get into the big leagues, you go beyond that. 1019 00:45:25,940 --> 00:45:30,100 There is a level beyond that that has nothing to do with the commercial DSPs 1020 00:45:30,100 --> 00:45:35,540 that like, once you graduate to a level, maybe you have representation or you, you know, 1021 00:45:35,540 --> 00:45:41,300 are independent and huge, you know, you've got, I mean, those are the kinds of whether you love 1022 00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:45,460 them or hate them. That's like the Kanye West wanting to change one word in a song and changing it in 1023 00:45:45,460 --> 00:45:50,020 15 minutes kind of thing. Yeah, I did that. I got to upload it and wait a week. 1024 00:45:50,020 --> 00:45:55,220 So, yeah, it's like the Jack Nicholson treatment, right? 1025 00:45:55,220 --> 00:45:56,580 Yeah. Yeah. 1026 00:45:56,580 --> 00:46:00,740 Yeah, I mean, there's always that you have to penetrate to really get to those sorts of, 1027 00:46:00,740 --> 00:46:05,780 yeah, yeah, those sorts of levels, I won't say. 1028 00:46:06,340 --> 00:46:12,740 To when they, when they let you in the Spotify office in New York and it's, oh, good afternoon, 1029 00:46:12,740 --> 00:46:15,940 Mr. Grounds here. We have your coffee ready for you. 1030 00:46:15,940 --> 00:46:22,020 Would you like a 230 T time or a 430 T time serving? 1031 00:46:22,020 --> 00:46:27,860 Things like that, right? Like just because the rest of us are like, hello! 1032 00:46:27,860 --> 00:46:32,500 Yeah, we don't get shit for service, right? 1033 00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:33,220 No, we don't. 1034 00:46:33,220 --> 00:46:38,740 A buddy of mine told me about that. He's kind of big in the Web 3 universe and stuff and he just kind 1035 00:46:38,740 --> 00:46:43,620 of has learned more about this with me. But buddy Dave, that I was talking about earlier that we got to work on some of those hip-hop records 1036 00:46:43,620 --> 00:46:47,380 with sunny digital and stuff. But shout out Dave. 1037 00:46:47,380 --> 00:46:52,820 And yeah, he was kind of telling me about that and I was just like, you know, it makes a whole lot of sense. 1038 00:46:52,820 --> 00:46:57,380 You know, imagine Kanye West like going to tune core support and being like, change this song. 1039 00:46:57,380 --> 00:46:58,580 Yeah. 1040 00:46:58,580 --> 00:47:00,180 It makes me laugh, which is not happening. 1041 00:47:00,820 --> 00:47:04,980 He's got somebody at a label who's doing that for him, you know, in 30 seconds. 1042 00:47:04,980 --> 00:47:08,740 That's the power of influence and money. 1043 00:47:08,740 --> 00:47:09,780 Yeah. 1044 00:47:09,780 --> 00:47:10,420 Poor share. 1045 00:47:10,420 --> 00:47:12,100 Right up. Absolutely true. 1046 00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:16,020 Everything can be bought, everything can be sold. 1047 00:47:16,020 --> 00:47:19,620 It's just an issue of how much money you got, you know. 1048 00:47:19,620 --> 00:47:21,140 You absolutely right about that. 1049 00:47:21,140 --> 00:47:26,740 Well, so what do you got coming up next? What's the next single you're going to do? 1050 00:47:26,740 --> 00:47:27,540 What are you working on? 1051 00:47:28,420 --> 00:47:32,420 Yeah, I'm working on a few songs. Some of them don't even have names yet, but they're kind of, 1052 00:47:32,420 --> 00:47:39,060 I have a tendency to get an idea and then I'll kind of like, produce a demo as I'm writing the song. 1053 00:47:39,060 --> 00:47:44,340 So like I can record half of it and walk around with my airpods in and like finish writing. 1054 00:47:44,340 --> 00:47:47,540 I'll make like a loose instrumental of something and do that. 1055 00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:51,140 So I've got several of those that are in the works, but I think the song that's coming next is 1056 00:47:51,140 --> 00:47:56,820 called "Cort Square." It's an acoustic version of a song that's going to be on an EP that I'm trying to put together. 1057 00:47:58,100 --> 00:48:01,940 It's not going to be the studio version of it, but it's an acoustic guitar version of that. 1058 00:48:01,940 --> 00:48:09,220 And it's a song about kind of fragmentedly about New York City and New York City is one of my favorite places 1059 00:48:09,220 --> 00:48:12,980 in the States just because it's so huge and ambiguous. 1060 00:48:12,980 --> 00:48:18,340 And "Cort Square" is kind of like a, it's a subway station that's in Long Island City, 1061 00:48:18,340 --> 00:48:20,660 which sits right across from Midtown Manhattan. 1062 00:48:20,660 --> 00:48:23,620 And it just kind of reminds me, it's very quiet like when you're there, 1063 00:48:23,620 --> 00:48:25,540 it doesn't really feel like New York City. 1064 00:48:25,540 --> 00:48:29,300 So it's like fragmentedly talking about that, but also like when you're in a large crowd, 1065 00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:32,980 you're still kind of like nobody cares what you're doing, you know? 1066 00:48:32,980 --> 00:48:34,260 Yeah. 1067 00:48:34,260 --> 00:48:40,020 Yeah, so it's kind of about the ambiguity of New York and just outlining and illustrating 1068 00:48:40,020 --> 00:48:41,940 some experiences that I had there and stuff. 1069 00:48:41,940 --> 00:48:46,580 So I look forward to hearing it. I love New York. If I had the money, I'd move there in a second. 1070 00:48:46,580 --> 00:48:51,060 Yeah, it's amazing. It's quite on. I took my mom there. 1071 00:48:52,340 --> 00:48:56,260 I want to say it was November, it was right after they lit the Christmas tree. She had never been 1072 00:48:56,260 --> 00:49:01,140 and I was like, "You need to go. I'm an only child not to get too saccharine on you." 1073 00:49:01,140 --> 00:49:05,620 But like basically we went and you know had a great time. She had never been in New York City. 1074 00:49:05,620 --> 00:49:10,500 I'd have been afforded the opportunity to go a few times prior to that and got a chance to 1075 00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:16,500 show her around and we had a really good time and New York City was a very special place for me. 1076 00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:20,820 Yeah, yeah. I had the best thing in my life there. 1077 00:49:20,820 --> 00:49:24,980 Anyways. Yeah, we're at your here. Come on, man. 1078 00:49:24,980 --> 00:49:29,300 Cantor's Deli? No, I went to, so I went to cats this time. 1079 00:49:29,300 --> 00:49:35,380 Cats is Deli or whatever and then I went to Sarge's Deli the time before that to kind of do the 1080 00:49:35,380 --> 00:49:41,700 the verses on their pastrami. Cat is cat is pastrami is killer, man. Man, I'm telling you Sarge, 1081 00:49:41,700 --> 00:49:47,140 you know, if anybody is listening up there, don't hate me for this but I kind of like Sarge is a little 1082 00:49:47,140 --> 00:49:53,940 maybe it was because it was like it wasn't so crazy. You know what I mean? It's your New Yorker's 1083 00:49:53,940 --> 00:49:58,820 answer to that sandwich. Like everybody's going to go to cats as Deli because it's cats as Deli. 1084 00:49:58,820 --> 00:50:04,420 You know, it's got the one Harry Met Sally vibe and you know all that. But there definitely places 1085 00:50:04,420 --> 00:50:09,380 off the beaten path that if you do your Googles and you do your research you can find some really 1086 00:50:09,380 --> 00:50:14,660 awesome things in that city. So well let's get back to writing really quick. I'm curious. I didn't ask 1087 00:50:14,660 --> 00:50:21,380 this. When you write do you predominantly write on acoustic on a keyboard or in a DAW? 1088 00:50:21,380 --> 00:50:28,020 I think that varies. That will depend on the song. Usually it starts with a melody idea in my head 1089 00:50:28,020 --> 00:50:33,780 or like a phrase. So the hard way started with that. Like literally I went back through my computer 1090 00:50:33,780 --> 00:50:39,300 the other day and was just looking through sessions and I found the original session where I just sang 1091 00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:45,860 the vocal part like the choral part and I had started like building instrumentation, you know, 1092 00:50:45,860 --> 00:50:51,620 software instrumentation around it, stuff like that. So it really just kind of depends. But sometimes 1093 00:50:51,620 --> 00:50:57,380 I don't know. I'm probably an acoustic guitar would if I had to put a percentage on it would be 1094 00:50:57,380 --> 00:51:04,260 where I'm writing most of the ideas. Very cool. Yeah. And just stumbling on the fretboard and 1095 00:51:04,260 --> 00:51:10,100 finding the chords that correlate. I'm good at that. Famous again. I'll be playing these weird 1096 00:51:10,100 --> 00:51:17,380 shapes. You'd be like, what is that? I have no idea. What DAW do you use? What software? 1097 00:51:17,380 --> 00:51:23,140 Ableton. Predominate. Yeah. I've got experience in all of them. 1098 00:51:23,140 --> 00:51:30,100 I feel like if you've done any work in a real studio you know enough about Pro Tools to operate it. 1099 00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:35,140 Same with Logic. Yeah. You know if you're handling other people's sessions you have the experience 1100 00:51:35,140 --> 00:51:41,700 of kind of working in a lot of different dollars. And yeah, but Ableton I would say is my 1101 00:51:41,700 --> 00:51:50,180 bread and butter. I'm a big fan. I think it gets overlooked a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I'm more of like 1102 00:51:50,180 --> 00:51:55,780 I got Pro Tools in the inbox like when they first came out in the late 90s or the 2000s, right? 1103 00:51:55,780 --> 00:52:02,340 So that's my head is that. Yeah. And I had it in the inbox. Yeah. It's pretty good little 1104 00:52:02,340 --> 00:52:07,540 you know little interface. Well Pro Tools LE was like the blue one that was like the yeah. 1105 00:52:07,540 --> 00:52:12,580 Pro Tools always felt a little clunky for me. You know it's like fair. 1106 00:52:12,580 --> 00:52:18,500 You know going around what's the phrase? You know going to your elbow to get to your ass or whatever 1107 00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:25,220 it just probably saying that completely. Yeah. Not the wrong way but you know what I mean. 1108 00:52:25,220 --> 00:52:31,380 It's just a laborious and it's like you know I mean I'm working with with limited hardware and stuff 1109 00:52:31,380 --> 00:52:35,620 and so you know it gets really daunting when you're trying to listen back and you know you're running 1110 00:52:35,620 --> 00:52:40,020 into these like system error like you know you just a lot of system errors unless you're running like a 1111 00:52:40,020 --> 00:52:47,700 super high-end machine you know. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's completely or segregated from the internet 1112 00:52:47,700 --> 00:52:52,900 as you can get it so that it can stay as clean as can right. Yeah. For sure. Absolutely. 1113 00:52:53,860 --> 00:52:59,460 All right one quick fun question before we talk about the song that's going to take us out. I've 1114 00:52:59,460 --> 00:53:04,100 already asked you for like five favorite records in terms of produced but I'm going to take 1115 00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:09,300 I'm going to take a stab at a fun question because you mentioned musical theater when you were a kid 1116 00:53:09,300 --> 00:53:15,780 and you mentioned just going to to New York. Yeah. Are you a fan of Broadway shows? 1117 00:53:15,780 --> 00:53:22,660 No certainly. Absolutely. Yes. Top five Broadway shows go. I don't think I'd have to label what I've 1118 00:53:22,660 --> 00:53:29,700 seen. I mean Lion King is up there for sure. I've seen Music Man. That's fantastic. Saw Iida and I saw 1119 00:53:29,700 --> 00:53:36,260 Wicked which was great and then Hamilton I would say. Yeah. Which five? Yeah. They give you fun. Yeah. 1120 00:53:36,260 --> 00:53:41,780 Okay. I was ordering those or no. No. Well I mean if you're going to put Hamilton in your 1121 00:53:41,780 --> 00:53:49,140 in your top five in your top plot I'd put it in my top slot. I'm yeah. I think Lion King is the 1122 00:53:49,140 --> 00:53:53,220 must see like you like the first time in New York you got to go see it you know you got to just get it 1123 00:53:53,220 --> 00:53:59,540 out of the way. Hamilton though for the writing is just unbelievable and it's incredible. 1124 00:53:59,540 --> 00:54:08,900 Just the amount of good like if you have a Broadway show that has like one great song and that's 1125 00:54:08,900 --> 00:54:16,660 pretty damn good. Right. But then like my god how many great songs did Lin Manuel Miranda write for 1126 00:54:16,660 --> 00:54:23,620 that? It's just one after another. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of my background by the way is in that. 1127 00:54:23,620 --> 00:54:27,700 I think I mentioned the the show choir that I was in when I was a kid. We did some light traveling 1128 00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:32,500 San Francisco in New York Boston stuff like that and we were always singing you know Lin-Miz or you 1129 00:54:32,500 --> 00:54:39,940 know some kind of iteration of a Broadway you know play. So a lot of that came from my time in you 1130 00:54:39,940 --> 00:54:45,860 know my singing days back in school. Yeah. Well that's great. I mean that passion translates 1131 00:54:45,860 --> 00:54:53,460 you know into every other artistic phase in your life so yeah totally are you an illustrator at all 1132 00:54:53,460 --> 00:54:59,940 or like do you dabble in any other side of the arts? I get do you still do theater? Like not so much. 1133 00:54:59,940 --> 00:55:05,620 I find that it's I think I made the joke earlier you know Jack of all trades master of none. 1134 00:55:05,620 --> 00:55:11,780 I do a lot of different things you know I'm kind of first generation internet kid I grew up between 1135 00:55:11,780 --> 00:55:16,900 like skateboarding and then like learning computer programming and HTML so it was like a healthy balance 1136 00:55:16,900 --> 00:55:23,140 of yeah I'm a weird shit like I feel like you're one of the two of those things usually. Yeah. I've 1137 00:55:23,140 --> 00:55:29,300 somehow found my ways about and yeah some media I was a commercial designer for years graphic design 1138 00:55:29,300 --> 00:55:36,900 work in that capacity you know videography I do do a little photography I hesitate to call myself 1139 00:55:36,900 --> 00:55:41,220 any one of those things because it just sounds like you're trying to impress somebody. So I kind of 1140 00:55:41,220 --> 00:55:46,340 condensed it down to wanting to really just you know be a musician and hopefully we can we can land 1141 00:55:46,340 --> 00:55:52,820 there but yeah the answer is yes the long winded way I'd do a lot of media production stuff for sure. 1142 00:55:52,820 --> 00:56:00,260 Oh fantastic. Well I've really enjoyed this conversation get to know who you are who you are as a 1143 00:56:00,260 --> 00:56:06,900 producer and as a say and you got to hell of a voice too dude I mean thanks man thanks yeah this has been 1144 00:56:06,900 --> 00:56:10,820 fun it's been nice to get to know you and understand your production style and some of the 1145 00:56:10,820 --> 00:56:17,140 different influences that you have had now we're gonna we're gonna wrap up the show with the song that 1146 00:56:17,140 --> 00:56:23,220 you did you co-produce or produce or what you did some engineering on it Bobby came to me with 1147 00:56:23,220 --> 00:56:28,580 the instrumental and he just he needed somebody to press record so I did the mixing in the you know 1148 00:56:28,580 --> 00:56:36,100 recording of the song form okay and it's in its beep steak and trademats right they can be 1149 00:56:36,100 --> 00:56:45,380 staking tradwives yeah yeah no he's all about it I um okay man I support it yeah whatever my 1150 00:56:45,380 --> 00:56:49,860 friends want to do you know as long as it's not here anybody it's a it's a fun song for sure yeah 1151 00:56:49,860 --> 00:56:56,660 yeah we have fun making it he is he's a he's a good dude and he's got his hand in a lot of different 1152 00:56:56,660 --> 00:57:02,820 buckets and it's fun to see his his take on some of those musical ideas as well so 1153 00:57:03,220 --> 00:57:07,620 agreed agreed I'm excited to make more music with him in the future that'll be fun so fantastic well 1154 00:57:07,620 --> 00:57:13,860 Martin will we'll we'll play that song to take us out um but stick around you and I'll talk a little 1155 00:57:13,860 --> 00:57:18,020 bit in the green room but thank you very much for coming on the show man it's been really nice to 1156 00:57:18,020 --> 00:57:25,700 get to know you absolutely thanks for having me thank you everyone for being here tonight um to 1157 00:57:25,700 --> 00:57:32,500 close out the evening we have Bobby shell he's gonna be performing a originals and uh I think it's 1158 00:57:32,500 --> 00:57:37,220 gonna be very tasteful for the crowd that we have here we heard some of you are based you have 1159 00:57:37,220 --> 00:57:44,980 traditional families and uh you believe in summer so everyone who's on the fringes and not for 1160 00:57:44,980 --> 00:57:51,140 that um you might be one of the crown world people so uh Bobby take it away wake up in the morning 1161 00:57:51,140 --> 00:57:56,100 salt and pepper my eggs I got my rib I cooked that's the life that I live I hate the city traffic 1162 00:57:56,100 --> 00:58:00,340 outskirts where I sit grocery store ain't about a shopping farmers market I'm living base 1163 00:58:00,980 --> 00:58:05,860 I ain't base it raw sauce no poison I'm tasting homegrown 1164 00:58:05,860 --> 00:58:11,940 res blazing speaking truth on the beat got the whole world praying oh bring back the good light 1165 00:58:11,940 --> 00:58:16,820 why these politicians losing their act right wife and two kids sitting quite nice 1166 00:58:16,820 --> 00:58:22,020 life is so great when you got yourself a trad white yes Lord I got the good light let these 1167 00:58:22,020 --> 00:58:27,780 politicians know they better act right wife and two kids sitting quite nice life is so great when 1168 00:58:27,780 --> 00:58:32,980 you got yourself a trad white what up freaks the beat is beef steak supercharged with the flow all 1169 00:58:32,980 --> 00:58:39,940 gas and no brakes I live at this pace I thrive in the face of any challenge just lift your hands and pray Lord 1170 00:58:39,940 --> 00:58:45,620 bring back the good light why these politicians losing their act right wife and two kids sitting quite 1171 00:58:45,620 --> 00:58:51,460 nice life is so great when you got yourself a trad white yes Lord I got the good light let these 1172 00:58:51,460 --> 00:58:57,220 politicians know they better act right wife and two kids sitting quite nice life is so great when 1173 00:58:57,220 --> 00:59:02,340 you got yourself a trad white don't forget the first thing before breakfast one two three got 1174 00:59:02,340 --> 00:59:08,020 I get a bench press never skip a leg day not a little princess I don't cut corners for my sons I never 1175 00:59:08,020 --> 00:59:13,460 been wreck oh my gosh is that the sad slinger earning 99% on wave lake the cash bring your 1176 00:59:13,460 --> 00:59:18,900 listen cash is trash and I'm the beekeeper the sourdough that's a router not to be leaving wake up in 1177 00:59:18,900 --> 00:59:23,620 the morning salt and pepper my eggs I got my rib I could that's the life that I live I heat the city 1178 00:59:23,620 --> 00:59:28,180 traffic outskirts where I sit grocery store ain't about a shopping farmers market I'm never 1179 00:59:28,180 --> 00:59:36,100 based I ain't based it raw sauce no poison I'm tasting homegrown risk blazing speaking truth on 1180 00:59:36,100 --> 00:59:41,060 the beat got the whole world praying what up freaks the beat is beef steak supercharged with the 1181 00:59:41,060 --> 00:59:46,580 flow all gas and no brakes I live at this pace I thrive in the face of any challenge just lift your 1182 00:59:46,580 --> 00:59:52,820 hands and pray Lord bring back the good light why these politicians losing their act right wife and 1183 00:59:52,820 --> 00:59:58,900 two kids sitting quite nice like a soul great when you got yourself a trad white yes Lord I got the 1184 00:59:58,900 --> 01:00:04,820 good light let these politicians know they better act right wife and two kids sitting quite nice life 1185 01:00:04,820 --> 01:00:07,060 is so great when you got yourself a trad white 1186 01:00:15,460 --> 01:00:24,100 a beef steak and trad wise that is Bobby Shell and Martin engineered that track and I can't help but 1187 01:00:24,100 --> 01:00:31,700 pick up on maybe a little bit of Maclamore sarcastic influences on that track 1188 01:00:31,700 --> 01:00:39,940 it definitely definitely makes me smile and the fun thing about music too is you know if you know 1189 01:00:39,940 --> 01:00:46,660 Bobby and I've had a couple of business meetings with him and he's brilliant charming guy but you know 1190 01:00:46,660 --> 01:00:51,940 it's it's fun when you hear songs like that coming from a dude like who can put on a brilliant business 1191 01:00:51,940 --> 01:00:58,180 of marketing hat and then turn around and do a song like that that's one of the great things about 1192 01:00:58,180 --> 01:01:08,580 art is it not love it my thanks to Martin for joining us in today's phantom power artist hour 1193 01:01:09,300 --> 01:01:18,100 and for Bobby for co-writing the song that we kicked off the show with which of course is hardway thank 1194 01:01:18,100 --> 01:01:23,540 you guys all for the sats and boost if you got any questions you can find us on telegram and on 1195 01:01:23,540 --> 01:01:31,460 not stir of course and a couple of the social media platforms you can always go to phantompowermusic.io 1196 01:01:31,460 --> 01:01:37,380 and find us there if you guys know any musicians who are interested in getting their music up into 1197 01:01:37,380 --> 01:01:44,180 the bitcoin space and participating in value for value we would love to help them out my thanks to 1198 01:01:44,180 --> 01:01:49,940 all the other show producers as well all the guys out there that guys and gals thank you very much who 1199 01:01:49,940 --> 01:01:58,020 are pushing this wonderful agenda forward there's a host of great shows out there and I hope you 1200 01:01:58,020 --> 01:02:05,220 guys are listening to them as well good all right get out of here go mo the yard it's getting warm 1201 01:02:05,220 --> 01:02:12,660 outside go get the flower beds ready go tip over all those pots that are filled up with water because 1202 01:02:12,660 --> 01:02:19,620 the mosquitoes are coming all right see you guys thanks for listening 1203 01:02:19,620 --> 01:02:21,820 (fanfare) 1204 01:02:21,820 --> 01:02:24,400 (upbeat music) 1205 01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,980 (upbeat music) 1206 01:02:26,980 --> 01:02:36,980 [ Music ]