1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,580 (upbeat music) 2 00:00:02,580 --> 00:00:15,400 Hey everybody, welcome back to the Phantom Power Business Hour. 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,080 Today is Monday March 18th, 4 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:21,680 and my guest is a full-time singer songwriter 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,560 here in Nashville and a Tennessee native 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,960 by the name of Bonner Black. 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,960 I thought it would be a lot of fun for you guys 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,100 to hear what it takes on a daily basis 9 00:00:34,100 --> 00:00:37,880 to make a living as a singer songwriter here in Nashville 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,040 and Bonner's one of the best at it. 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,140 She is a completely independent artist. 12 00:00:43,140 --> 00:00:46,360 I first saw her at City Winery four years ago 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,960 and been hooked ever since, I think she's fantastic. 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,960 We're gonna talk about songwriting, 15 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,520 we're gonna talk about social media, 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,960 we're gonna talk about the entrepreneurial shift 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,600 that it requires the hustle, all of it. 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,800 We're gonna start it off with a single 19 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,280 from her latest record and this single is called 20 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,080 "Bloved Looks" and then we'll get to the interview. 21 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:09,920 Cool. 22 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,960 Here we go. 23 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:13,880 "Love Looks" by Bonner Black 24 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,920 on the Phantom Power Business Hour. 25 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,000 (upbeat music) 26 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,160 ♪ I heard a poem about you turning my back ♪ 27 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:24,800 ♪ I heard a poem about you turning my back ♪ 28 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,160 ♪ I heard a poem about you turning my back ♪ 29 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,160 ♪ I heard a poem about you turning my back ♪ 30 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,160 ♪ I heard a poem about you turning my back ♪ 31 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,680 ♪ Before the case I twist the lock on the door ♪ 32 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,080 ♪ And I believe it was like breathing ♪ 33 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,360 ♪ And the weekend was enough ♪ 34 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,080 ♪ We sat so skeptical across each other ♪ 35 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,120 ♪ On our first day at that French place ♪ 36 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,120 ♪ So generous a quote ♪ 37 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,760 ♪ But wow, oh my God, are you July ♪ 38 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,840 ♪ 'Cause you're so hot, I want everything you got ♪ 39 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,920 ♪ Give me everything you got ♪ 40 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,880 ♪ I find more for the wind and just to beat it ♪ 41 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,840 ♪ If you should forgive you all my body heat ♪ 42 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,280 ♪ Rub your back and cook your dinner ♪ 43 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,080 ♪ I'm rather once but I'm a hush ♪ 44 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,080 ♪ Thank God I found you dead and so dumb ♪ 45 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:14,880 ♪ And I found it ♪ 46 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,080 ♪ It's hard to be like that ♪ 47 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,080 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 48 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,360 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 49 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,040 ♪ Love looks good on us ♪ 50 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:26,920 ♪ You're the color of the phone ♪ 51 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:29,360 ♪ But you just will get up ♪ 52 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,120 ♪ I feel it and you touch me like that ♪ 53 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:34,640 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 54 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:37,160 ♪ Baby I'm never going back ♪ 55 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,160 ♪ Before your kiss I now risk heartache for no one ♪ 56 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,360 ♪ Now you got me on my knees, plan your mind ♪ 57 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,840 ♪ We only fight when you reach for your ball ♪ 58 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,960 ♪ It's like please it's our need ♪ 59 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,280 ♪ I insist where you go ♪ 60 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,080 ♪ Love looks good on us ♪ 61 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,120 ♪ Thank God I found you dead and so dumb ♪ 62 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:02,680 ♪ And I found it ♪ 63 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,080 ♪ It's hard to be like that ♪ 64 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,040 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 65 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,320 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 66 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,040 ♪ Love looks good on us ♪ 67 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,960 ♪ You're the color of the phone ♪ 68 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,320 ♪ You're just waking up ♪ 69 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,080 ♪ I'm never going to touch me like that ♪ 70 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,560 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 71 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,320 ♪ Baby I'm never going back ♪ 72 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,040 ♪ Love looks good on us ♪ 73 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:28,800 ♪ You're the color of the phone ♪ 74 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,200 ♪ When you touch me like that ♪ 75 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:32,800 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 76 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,600 ♪ Love looks good on us ♪ 77 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:36,600 ♪ You're the color of the phone ♪ 78 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,040 ♪ When you touch me like that ♪ 79 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,040 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 80 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,320 ♪ And when they get back to your house ♪ 81 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,200 ♪ We can cuddle on the couch ♪ 82 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:46,760 ♪ Watch Eminem and pity ♪ 83 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,240 ♪ And when nobody else around ♪ 84 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,280 ♪ Side will pick, and you're so cute ♪ 85 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,320 ♪ Sleepy head, I'm much as close to you ♪ 86 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,360 ♪ Instagram and a family group chat ♪ 87 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,280 ♪ Baby I'm so proud of you ♪ 88 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:03,040 ♪ Love looks good on us ♪ 89 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,040 ♪ Thank God I found you dead and so dumb ♪ 90 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,040 ♪ And I'm never going to touch me like that ♪ 91 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,960 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 92 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,320 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 93 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,000 ♪ Love looks good on us ♪ 94 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,920 ♪ You're the color of the phone ♪ 95 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,320 ♪ And you're just waking up ♪ 96 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,040 ♪ I know in here it's hard to be like that ♪ 97 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:28,560 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 98 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,920 ♪ Baby I'm never going back ♪ 99 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,080 ♪ And when you touch me like that ♪ 100 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:34,840 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 101 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:37,120 ♪ And when you touch me like that ♪ 102 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,600 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 103 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,080 ♪ Baby it's hard to be like that ♪ 104 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:42,840 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 105 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:45,160 ♪ When you touch me like that ♪ 106 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,160 ♪ I'm never going back ♪ 107 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:53,000 - All right, welcome to the fan of power business hour 108 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,480 and you just heard "Love looks" and then "In parentheses." 109 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:01,480 Never going back by Bonner Black, who is our guest today. 110 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:06,400 Bonner is one of my favorite independent artists here 111 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:07,480 in Nashville. 112 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:08,760 She's a native of Tennessee. 113 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,480 She moved to Nashville when she was 17 114 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,920 to pursue a career in songwriting and singing 115 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,680 and she started touring shortly after that. 116 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,840 She's got about 500 gigs underneath her belt, 117 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:25,200 opened up for Charlie Daniels, Banned Perry, 118 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,720 and is pushing about a million streams 119 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:32,040 on Spotify and iTunes for her body of work. 120 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:38,040 She also made four trips to DC on behalf of NSAI, 121 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,080 which is Nashville Songwriters Association 122 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,640 to Longer for Lobby, excuse me, 123 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,800 for a stronger copyright protection and advocate 124 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,360 for songwriters. 125 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,040 She's got a great social media presence. 126 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:51,280 She's one of my favorite writers 127 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:53,520 and I have seen her live twice 128 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,160 and will testify in court that she's awesome. 129 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:57,480 So Bonner, welcome. 130 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,360 - Hello, thank you for having me. 131 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,200 - Yeah. 132 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:03,640 - Lovely intro. 133 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:04,960 - Well, it was a little long-winded 134 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,360 and I stumbled on it, 135 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,200 but who knows, maybe I'll chop it up a little bit. 136 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,280 - No, gas me up. 137 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:14,560 It's funny, I actually only have about, 138 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,520 I think now total 700,000 streams on Spotify. 139 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:24,520 So I'm inching my way to that million, but... 140 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,360 - Well, I think if you take that 700, 141 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:29,480 it's probably safe to say 142 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,960 that you've probably got the same over on iTunes. 143 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:32,800 So... 144 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,240 - Yeah, I gotta look up the full numbers today. 145 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:35,240 I was trying to do that yesterday. 146 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:36,640 It's hard to find a central location 147 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,520 for all of the data. 148 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,720 - Well, that's, isn't that part of the joy of being 149 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,320 in the independent position of not really knowing 150 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,560 what the hell is going on with your streams, right? 151 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:49,640 - No, never. 152 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:54,160 - I wanna talk about your new record 153 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,240 that you did with Jake from The Foxies. 154 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:58,720 We'll get to that in a little bit, 155 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:03,120 but I wanted to start with your business acumen 156 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,080 with your entrepreneurial spirit. 157 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,360 Tell us a little bit about your trips to DC 158 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,280 for lobbying your work with NSAI 159 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,880 and the impact that that's had on your career. 160 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,200 - Yeah, so I met Bart Herbison, 161 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:25,200 who's the director of NSAI when I was 15 years old. 162 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,360 I'd gone to NSAI and I was supposed to be having a meeting 163 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,440 with one of the membership reps 164 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,480 and I had braces and side bangs 165 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,960 and I played this little hot pink sparkly, 166 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,920 Daisy Rock guitar and I don't know if you ever met Bart, 167 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,360 but he is the most passionate person on music row, 168 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,760 just a very eccentric and smart, passionate person 169 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,840 and he walks downstairs and he sees me and he goes, 170 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:52,920 "What do you got there?" 171 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,400 And I was like, "Oh, it's my guitar." 172 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,480 And he goes, "Well, why don't you play me a song?" 173 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,640 And I played him this song, which to me now listening back, 174 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,200 I'm like, "Oh gosh." 175 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,560 So A, I was like totally ripping off Taylor Swift. 176 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:05,520 - That's all right. 177 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,760 - And B, you know, it was just a cheesy little song written 178 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,240 by a homeschooled 14 year old, you know? 179 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:13,080 - Yeah. 180 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,840 - But Bart saw something in me and he kind of took me 181 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:20,840 under his wing and his main role is to represent songwriters 182 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,440 on music row to Congress and Senate 183 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:30,440 and to advocate for things like copyright law, royalties, 184 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,600 a lot of legal matters that are pressing to songwriters. 185 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,240 - Yeah. 186 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,920 - And so he had this lobbying tactic that he wanted to use 187 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,160 where basically he would have me come in 188 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,280 my cute little young adorable self 189 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,680 with my whole life ahead of me, 190 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:49,520 have me play a couple songs, 191 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,840 pull at the heartstrings of these representatives 192 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,360 and then hit him with, "Hey, we don't pass this new copyright law, 193 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,920 which at the time he was working in the early stages 194 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:01,840 on the Music Modernization Act." 195 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,600 If we don't fix this, young sweet bonner is, 196 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,160 her career is gonna be dead, she's not gonna make any money 197 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,840 as a songwriter and she's gonna be living on the streets, 198 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:13,680 you know, kind of-- 199 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:18,160 - This cute little girl is gonna be destitute eating rats 200 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,520 that she finds in the streets of Nashville. 201 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:21,920 You heartless bastards. 202 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:27,360 - That was basically the lobbying tactic and it worked. 203 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,920 I mean, I really, you know, I worked these rooms and playing 204 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,640 for people like, you know, the legendary senator, 205 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,120 Olympia Snow. 206 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,080 You know, people like that. 207 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,000 So anyways, it was a wild and it was such a cool experience 208 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,120 for me as a high schooler. 209 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,600 I mean, I went between, you know, the ages of like 15 and 16, 210 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,120 four trips around there. 211 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,880 And I was homeschooled, so field trips weren't really a thing 212 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,320 other than I mean, just going to Nashville all the time. 213 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,320 So that was a really cool field trip. 214 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,720 I mean, we were walking up and down, 215 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,880 taking meetings with congresswomen and men and senators, 216 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,560 constantly, I mean, I had these like little shoes. 217 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:08,480 I remember my mom had to go into a wall green 218 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,800 to get me mule skin because my heels were literally bleeding 219 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,960 because of, and but what was so amazing was to watch Bart 220 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:21,560 Herbison, I don't, I can't, he cannot get enough credit 221 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:23,520 for music row for what he does. 222 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,280 He is so tireless and so passionate. 223 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:28,960 He will corner these people. 224 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,800 I watched Bart corner these representatives in the cafeteria 225 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,440 and no one fights harder for songwriters than him. 226 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,560 And it just, it was such an incredible experience for me. 227 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:45,000 And it also definitely taught me a little bit about negotiation. 228 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,680 Yeah, bonner black political pond. 229 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:52,920 I was happy to be upon. 230 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:57,240 I was honored to be a political pond for, for Bart. 231 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,240 I have never met Bart. 232 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:04,640 My daughter has and my wife has and they say the same things about him. 233 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:10,640 He's just absolutely charming and an amazing advocate for writers. 234 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,320 And I obviously, if you've been in Nashville for a little while, 235 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,240 you know, in a say I, and you know how important they are. 236 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:22,200 But for, you know, for the, for the songwriters and the people 237 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,640 in, in the Bitcoin community who are listening, what is the MLC? 238 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,560 Can you explain it to them, please? 239 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:32,840 I actually don't know. 240 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,880 I don't know what the MLC is. 241 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,440 I think my manager has an account set up with me, 242 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,400 but I'll be quite honest with you. 243 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:46,600 I'm out of touch with all of the admin step as far as like I do 244 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,120 like a little feature F M stuff because that's what I get my 245 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,080 pre-save links and distribution from. 246 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,080 Right. 247 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,720 I've been in the MLC because I get monthly statements from them. 248 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:58,720 Yeah. 249 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:03,320 But to be honest, I've never, I haven't looked that far. 250 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,240 I mean, it's, it's what it does is it collects the royalties 251 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,360 under licenses from Spotify and iTunes and things like that. 252 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,120 And pay songwriters, composers, lyricists and music publishers. 253 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:21,160 It's, you know, you should sign up for it in addition to signing up 254 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,160 with ASCAP or BMI. 255 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,160 Yeah. 256 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:26,160 Yeah. 257 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,880 I was working with a manager all last year and she handled 258 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,000 pretty much all the admin for this album. 259 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,120 But it's funny because I do feel like at this point, 260 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,560 when it comes time for me to collect my money every like three, 261 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:44,200 four months when I go in there, I have like four, five websites 262 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:45,000 that I go through. 263 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,720 It's like, just okay, I have money in my tone, tree bank. 264 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,560 I get my check from C-SAC. 265 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:56,320 MLC, I will go in there and like do the, whatever it's distributing. 266 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,800 Sometimes I like completely lose track of where all the money is 267 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,760 because it is kind of wild in songwriting and in music. 268 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,360 You're getting paid. 269 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,840 He's kind of like micro pennies. 270 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:09,640 Yeah. 271 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,000 And in so many different places. 272 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:17,640 Well, you hit on all the folks who are listening, 273 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,040 who are supporters of Bitcoin and getting musicians 274 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,600 paid in Bitcoin. 275 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:28,000 You hit on something which is really big. 276 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,040 These four or five different places that you have to go to to get 277 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,960 all of the data for your music, all of these middlemen 278 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,920 for lack of a better term. 279 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,320 All of this, everybody that you have to deal with is behind a walled 280 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,480 garden. 281 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,040 You don't necessarily have all of the information that you need 282 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:50,840 to properly account for your income, for your art. 283 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,880 But what's happening, and you and I were talking a little bit about this 284 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,480 before the interview started, what's happening now with Bitcoin 285 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:03,480 and getting your music up in the RSS feeds is that instantaneous payment. 286 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:09,560 That kind of eliminates a lot of those other relationships. 287 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:15,200 But yeah, to me, that's one of the biggest struggles that musicians face is just 288 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:22,040 getting honest data on what's going on with their streams and the music that they put out. 289 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:22,920 Yes. 290 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:29,520 What do you think is the biggest struggle that songwriters and performers face today? 291 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,920 Not just in Nashville, but just as an industry? 292 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:39,520 To be quite honest, I think it's not. 293 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,240 A technical problem, I think it's a mental problem. 294 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:51,200 I think it is lately, even some of the most successful and up-and-coming songwriters 295 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:56,520 who have just signed publishing deals, just by and record deals have had viral things happen 296 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:57,840 to them. 297 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:07,000 It's feeling enough and feeling like your art is important and valuable and actually needed 298 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,440 feeling that positivity and encouragement to keep going. 299 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:19,040 I think because we have such a complicated industry and there are so many different areas 300 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,040 that you can be successful. 301 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,840 And well, yeah, I have a lot of TikTok followers, but on this thing, I'm not touring though, 302 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,240 where I've been touring, but I can't get my social media up or whatever. 303 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:34,840 I think it's so hard these days to have a gauge on what is successful. 304 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:40,320 For me, my baseline of success has always been just figure out how to pay my bills, making 305 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,880 music, just be a professional musician for a living. 306 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,600 And once I get to that baseline, I'm like, "Okay, I'm comfortable." 307 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:52,600 And then after that, it's like, all right, let's take this as far as we can possibly go. 308 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:59,320 So honestly, I know that's sort of a broad answer, but I do think it's really hard for 309 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,760 artists right now to gauge success to figure out what goals they should be reaching, what 310 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:09,760 goals are meaningful and staying positive. 311 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:15,000 It is amazing that, you know, if you look at this just from a business perspective, like it's 312 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,720 amazing that anybody would jump in and decide to do this, right? 313 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:30,760 Because if you're lucky, you get $100, $150, $200, a gig for your original music, right? 314 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:31,760 If you're lucky. 315 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,440 Now that's different than going down a Broadway and, you know, playing cover tunes for three 316 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:37,440 hours. 317 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:38,840 Yeah, yeah. 318 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:45,960 So you're, if you're lucky, you make $150, $150, a gig. 319 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:54,440 And you can't do that every night as an independent because the audience is just not there. 320 00:16:54,440 --> 00:17:02,480 If you're lucky, you make .005 cents on a stream from Spotify, right? 321 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:09,760 Then you, and so already you're in the hole and then you spend anywhere from $1,500 to $4,000 322 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:14,080 per song, getting it produced here in town, right? 323 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,480 And then you have to completely change gears from being a songwriter and then become a 324 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:24,880 content creator for everything you're doing on Instagram and TikTok. 325 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:32,000 So God, man, you've got to absolutely love this, you know, because you're starting out 326 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,000 in a deficit. 327 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,160 Like if you took that business model where you really have no control over your income 328 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:43,440 stream and moved it over to an engineering company or a food company and tried to take 329 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,920 the idea to Shark Tank, they'd be like, you're nuts. 330 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:47,400 You have no income stream. 331 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,000 Why the hell would we invest in this? 332 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,000 Right? 333 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,000 Yeah. 334 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,000 Yeah. 335 00:17:52,000 --> 00:18:01,480 It is all about being crafty and creative and knowing your craft and knowing your market. 336 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:09,280 Like for me, you know, like the live show thing, it can be such an array. 337 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:14,920 Like I can go play a private show and make a couple grand and in general, that's usually 338 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,360 like an hour or two. 339 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:22,160 And I usually split like halfway between, you know, covers and original goals on that. 340 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,000 I can go play these listening rooms and I've been paid up until like $400 to $500 for 341 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:33,000 that plus if you have merch, you can make your money off of merch. 342 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,960 I think it's like knowing, even though it just talks about like there's so many different places 343 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,680 that you have all this streaming split up. 344 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,440 I have friends that make money going live on TikTok and Instagram reels. 345 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:45,600 I've done that as well. 346 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:52,760 I do get a payout from TikTok doing brand deals like talking about being a content creator. 347 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:57,360 I got hired by a brand last year to make two 30-second TikToks. 348 00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:58,360 Nice. 349 00:18:58,360 --> 00:18:59,360 Good for you. 350 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,560 And I got paid too grand for that. 351 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:07,760 So there is ways to make money as an artist. 352 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:14,240 You just have to, I think, be open to everything, open to, I mean, you know, obviously we talked 353 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:15,240 about household sucking. 354 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,360 A lot of the cover gigs can be in space. 355 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:18,360 Yeah. 356 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:26,560 You know, those don't pay incredibly, but I think I've always just tried to be excited and 357 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,640 take what I can get. 358 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,640 And I'll play like a private gig somewhere that pays a couple grand that maybe like no one's 359 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,400 really listening to me, but I'm also getting kind of fat or something. 360 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,600 And then use that opportunity of like, okay, well, I'm already close to Atlanta. 361 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,920 I'll play a club where I might break even, but I made money this other gig. 362 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,840 And so I'm kind of forward to play this one. 363 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,760 I'll make some like real fans merge content, kind of, kind of do things like that. 364 00:19:53,760 --> 00:20:02,120 So I think it's, it's tough and it's an uphill battle, but there is a lot of money in music. 365 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:06,040 And I'm not making like a crazy ton of money. 366 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:11,160 But I have been starting to see that if you are willing to kind of have your hand in a 367 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:18,360 lot of baskets and be open to doing a lot of things, you can get yourself in this position 368 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:21,640 where it's like, that is your, your daily life. 369 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:22,640 Yeah. 370 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,920 And you do a great job on social media too. 371 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,760 You're self deprecating humor. 372 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:36,720 Nice mix of, of your music with your humor, like the post you had, I think it was within 373 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,720 the last day about meeting Chris Daughtry. 374 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,720 Oh my gosh, it was, it was morning. 375 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:41,720 That was so first. 376 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:42,720 Yeah. 377 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,920 But also like you incorporate your hobbies into your social media too. 378 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,760 We're watching, bird watching. 379 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:50,760 Bird watching. 380 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:51,760 Yeah. 381 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,400 In the audience, but this is your sign to buy parabenoculars and go bird watch. 382 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,800 It will bring you so much joy and it will make you a better person. 383 00:20:58,800 --> 00:20:59,800 Not so much. 384 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:07,240 I am, I will say, like I'm surprised at what I see just around my house up here in Henderson 385 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,080 Bill, like I mean, I don't know what the hell I'm looking at, but blue jays and robins and 386 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,440 little yellow things and finches and everything else. 387 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,680 I'm like, God, there's a menagerie up here. 388 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,160 Then me, all your bird pictures, everybody send me your bird pictures. 389 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,680 I will identify them. 390 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,280 It's just such a fun thing. 391 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,880 And I do love posting about it too because oddly enough, now when people see birds, they 392 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,840 think of me and I didn't do this on purpose, but people see birds a lot. 393 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,200 So it's kind of a nice tactic of like a way to get people to think about you, you know, 394 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:43,040 like if you were all of a sudden start making a hobby and like for leave clovers and really 395 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,680 made it a known thing and every time someone sees a for leave clover, they think about you. 396 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:48,680 Yeah. 397 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:54,520 So maybe it's maybe bird watching is an untapped streaming marketing tactic. 398 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,800 It could be covert, right? 399 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:03,560 Political pawn slash covert operations, but you incorporated it well into your merchandise 400 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:09,960 too because the last gig that I saw you at a couple of weeks ago, you've got birds on your 401 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:10,960 t-shirts too. 402 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:19,440 So like you've done a nice job of merging your passion out your hobby, excuse me, with your 403 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,440 day job, right? 404 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,440 Of being able to do that. 405 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:22,440 Yeah. 406 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,680 I've been really intentional about that and I want to keep doing that. 407 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,880 So to that merged design, I actually designed that myself and that's another thing of like 408 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:35,840 talking about, you know, being open to doing a lot of things and I ended up just learning 409 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:41,760 graphic design over the last two years to not only stay funny, but to just be able to 410 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,320 go from like a thought in my head and to just be able to make it. 411 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:50,680 And I also think that it's really healthy when your daily tasks are diversified, you know, 412 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,000 like I'm have ADHD. 413 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,000 So really if I'm like only tracking for all day or only doing one thing all day, it doesn't 414 00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,000 really work for my brain. 415 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,720 So I like having lots of different things and it did save money. 416 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,040 So I did this design that was around a lyric in my song that was nothing makes sense without 417 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,480 a sense of humor and then it was a nature scene with birds on it. 418 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,680 I put a sand piper on there. 419 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,800 I put a great blue hair and to my favorite birds and a barn swallow, which is my favorite 420 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:20,800 bird. 421 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:27,840 And what I want to continue to do is sort of make nature a part of my brand to be able 422 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,000 to play certain like outdoor festivals and things like that. 423 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:38,800 And also I know people who hike and who are kind of like your crunchy granola people and 424 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,800 like Colorado Massachusetts Vermont. 425 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,400 My home state Colorado. 426 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:49,280 Like older baby people who love to be outside are just my people. 427 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,680 I eventually want to get in with the auto bond society because my nickname is bond. 428 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,040 So it's like an auto bond. 429 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,040 Oh, dude. 430 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:57,040 Yeah. 431 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,560 And then I have a merch idea too. 432 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:04,040 I want to do a bird watching starter kit that has like bond oculars like. 433 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,040 Yeah. 434 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:06,040 Yeah. 435 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,040 Yeah. 436 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,000 So it's all part of like wanting to. 437 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,800 Yeah, get people to listen to my music and stuff like that, but also kind of get a little 438 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:21,120 community together and hopefully maybe set up an opportunity to like do some really cool 439 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:25,640 unique outdoor shows or do these things where it's like eventually when I tour. 440 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,960 Have a VIP package where it's like that morning of the show like we all meet up and go bird 441 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,200 watching, you know, oh my God, that's brilliant. 442 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,120 So yeah, there's a lot of things. 443 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:37,320 There's a lot of things you can do with it. 444 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,240 And then you just sort of like set your like if you can like find ways to connect with your 445 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:47,520 fan base on a personal level or just their things that you actually enjoy, you kind of just 446 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,840 I like I hope that through doing this, I'm setting myself up to just kind of have this 447 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,280 like fun little life with fun. 448 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:55,280 That is. 449 00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:00,080 Man, you have taken that to a whole new level like holy crap. 450 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,280 It's a work it's still work in progress like I'm thinking about how to map it out, but the 451 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:10,080 merchant design is just like the beginning of that manifested dream. 452 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:11,480 That's fantastic. 453 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:17,560 That is that is fantastic put put a QR code on the binoculars that goes you know that 454 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,680 goes straight to your website, right? 455 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,280 That is that's really great. 456 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:23,760 Yeah, that but you know what? 457 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:24,760 That's the hustle. 458 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,080 That's what you got to do. 459 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:34,000 You know, yeah, to be successful, impressive man, really really impressive. 460 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:41,800 Yet you mentioned tick-tock or earlier and of course the big news in the last 72 hours has 461 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,320 been Congress talking about banning it. 462 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:50,360 You know, they've got six months to sell it, sell it to an American company or it's going 463 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:56,480 to be, um, court and quote, shut down turned off like what what what are your thoughts about 464 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,480 that? 465 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,520 Do you think it's going to happen? 466 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,680 Do you like how valuable is it to independent musicians? 467 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:09,840 In this day and age of social media people are going to find a way to connect and find music. 468 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:15,120 So I think these platforms are kind of a nice vessel, but they will ebb and flow. 469 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:20,160 Some will sink, some will rise if tick-tock goes down, there will be another tick-tock. 470 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:25,760 Where Instagram reels like really capitalizes and like Instagram becomes like the absolute 471 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,320 like vocal thing. 472 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,120 Snapchat could have a rise. 473 00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:34,480 YouTube shorts, you know, YouTube has always been such a king for resource anyways. 474 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,840 Like, I mean, I don't know if I were like YouTube and Snapchat, I'd just be praying for 475 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,840 the downfall of tick-tock. 476 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:47,560 Um, personally as a human being, I don't think tick-tock is serving the people. 477 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:53,600 It's definitely given me an opportunity to reach new people, but I think sometimes it can 478 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,520 do more harm than good as far as, you know, what all this is doing to our brains and, you 479 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,600 know, just straight from, you know, scientists and doctors. 480 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:10,880 So I feel like, you know, if it stays, I'm going to use it to serve whatever purpose I need 481 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,560 for it. 482 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:20,160 And if it goes, I'm going to just hop on whatever's next, you know, but I really don't know. 483 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:27,560 I can't, I honestly cannot see tick-tock getting banned. 484 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,000 It is such a powerful tool right now. 485 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,800 And I think people are making a lot of money off of it and advocating for it, but it will 486 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,640 be interesting to see what happens. 487 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:44,840 And I think that we might, it might be a beneficial thing if it were to be banned, but I think 488 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,720 if it's not, I think people just need to start accepting that social media is here and 489 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,320 it's here to stay and figure out how to have a healthy relationship with it and make it 490 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,520 serve you and don't let it control you. 491 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,720 Like being educated consumer, we're getting smacked in the face with ads all the time, probably 492 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,680 not great for our brain, but just be educated on how these ads are reaching out to you and 493 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:12,720 how the algorithms are working and don't participate in being hateful on there. 494 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:19,520 Don't participate in, you know, trolling or making mean comments and, you know, engage 495 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,960 on violence, content. 496 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:29,640 It will be interesting to see what it does, but I think I'm more interested in like how 497 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:37,800 are we as a society coping and adapting to this new world? 498 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:38,800 I get you. 499 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,760 Well, there's, you know, you and I are going to have a separate conversation after the 500 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:47,680 fact, you know, talking about Bitcoin and music and all this kind of stuff, but there is 501 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:55,240 a platform out there, open source protocol, no censorship, no walled gardens, no ads 502 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,520 being shoved down your throat. 503 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:05,880 It's called Noster, N-O-S-T-R, and you and I will have a separate conversation about it, 504 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:12,320 but I think you, and that is critical for the success of any musician who is putting 505 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,600 their music up into this space, but we'll talk more about that because there's some really 506 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,600 cool stuff going on over there. 507 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,160 There's even some people who are doing bird watching in Notion. 508 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,880 It's not only you, bird watching is about to sweep the nation. 509 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,000 We got to get more connected to nature people. 510 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,920 I promise you, I don't have, I get my best ideas when I'm in the woods. 511 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,920 I swear, like, I'll be sitting at home so frustrated with whatever, you know, issue of 512 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,200 the day I'm dealing with. 513 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:47,560 And when I just say screw it and I go get into the woods all the time, I just get the idea. 514 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:56,640 Yeah, well, my favorite quote from a musician is from Chakowsky who said, you know, inspiration 515 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:57,640 is not a guest. 516 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,160 It comes to those who seek it. 517 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,480 I love that. 518 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,480 So I did ballet for a long time and I did the Nutcracker. 519 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,800 I was clarin in the Nutcracker when I was nine. 520 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:15,680 Yeah, I wanted to ask you about being a ballerina. 521 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:16,680 I'm sorry. 522 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:22,280 Oh, no, I was just going to say, um, while the flowers is still just, I don't know, it just 523 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,320 brings that nostalgic joy to me. 524 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,600 And there's something about his music that's just very, it's like a deep, beautiful 525 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:40,160 well of emotion versus like Beethoven or Mozart, which is like, like red waves to me almost, 526 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:46,560 but there's something to check off the, it can be like a very like deep well of sorrow 527 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,520 mixed with better sweet joy. 528 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:57,120 I think a lot of that has to do with the persecution that he was under. 529 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:02,600 You know, I, Mozart, to me is, is very tactical. 530 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,640 You know, you can break down, you know, if you talk about it from, from a music theory standpoint, 531 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,800 there was some very specific rules that, that he followed and most composers of the day 532 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,400 followed. 533 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,880 Beethoven, to me, is fascinating because of his transition from classical into the romantic 534 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:21,880 era. 535 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,880 And you can see the line in his compositions, be it on the piano or be it symphonic, how 536 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,960 it, how, how he really was at the forefront of changing those trends from the end of the 537 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,200 classical era into the romantic era. 538 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:42,440 And then Chakowski, you know, there's just something about that Slavic blood, that Slavic 539 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,680 influence of his music and the persecution that he was under. 540 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,480 And I say that because not a lot of people know this, but he, he was gay. 541 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:58,040 And I think that a lot of that, and it's, you know, especially in 18, 19th century Russia 542 00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,040 at the time. 543 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,480 I mean, it was never acceptable. 544 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:09,320 But I think a lot of the passion that comes from Chakowski's music is not only of just 545 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,120 coming from the Slavic influences, but also the persecution that he was under and the 546 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,440 discrimination that he was under. 547 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,440 And he just poured it all into his music. 548 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,880 But yeah, I appreciate Italian kills me every time. 549 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:24,880 Yeah. 550 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:25,880 Yeah. 551 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:33,480 I mean, my, my first spark of love for music was classical music, like paired with the movement. 552 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,720 And I loved classical ballet so much. 553 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:45,120 I did love the technicality of it and how, how beautiful, and delicate and gentle it was and 554 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,480 how hard it was. 555 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,680 I did love the challenge. 556 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:54,520 And I love, like, holding one pose and you're trying to look so beautiful and so gentle and 557 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:55,640 so effortless. 558 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,520 And that smile, you're looking so graceful. 559 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:04,200 But every muscle in your body is tense and there's like a pin sticking in, like, you're 560 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,560 back and there's like a bobby pin that's sticking into your head and there's like a sweat that's 561 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,680 like falling into your mascara. 562 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,040 But like, still, you know, doing it. 563 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:20,560 I just loved ballet so much and I think classical music and classical music melodies have 564 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:26,040 greatly influenced my music and the places that I go with my melodies. 565 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:34,080 I had one of the questions that I had for you is, how did your time as a ballerina 566 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:41,160 shape your, or how, how has it influenced your work as a songwriter and a singer? 567 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,920 And I think that you've answered that. 568 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,720 Well, ballet definitely taught me a lot of discipline. 569 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:49,720 Yeah. 570 00:33:49,720 --> 00:34:00,360 Artistic director, Clinton Rothwell, studied under British Nikov and he danced for the 571 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:09,960 National Ballet of Canada and the Royal Ballet and he was so good to us and so encouraging 572 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:15,000 and taught us so many life lessons, but he was very, very, very tough on us. 573 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,480 And I think I learned, I learned that reward of like when you put in the hard work and yes 574 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:26,760 it may be uncomfortable and yes it may be tough, but when you, when you love it and you 575 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:33,360 perform it and you end up being able to do that, you know, that pirouette or that grand jute 576 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:40,640 that like just right, it's so rewarding and that's just kind of how I feel about music is 577 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:50,160 showing up and showing up on time and doing it rights and learning and training in it and 578 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:51,160 then just passion. 579 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,720 Like he was, like he was so passionate and I really was passionate about ballet and I do 580 00:34:55,720 --> 00:34:56,720 it. 581 00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:00,080 I think ultimately it was just like I love the stage, I love music, I love to move, like 582 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:07,280 I've just always, I've loved all of it and I learned passion with discipline at that 583 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,960 time in my life that I think I've carried over into being, you know, a songwriter. 584 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:12,960 Yeah. 585 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,480 That's a great answer. 586 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,000 I can understand. 587 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:25,480 Yeah, I get it, you know, the discipline that that ballet requires and how that, yeah, 588 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:26,480 that's it. 589 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,040 Yeah, no, that's, I mean, it's, it makes perfect sense. 590 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,320 It makes perfect sense. 591 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:41,480 Well, let's talk a little bit about this, this new record that you've got coming out, hopeless 592 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:47,640 romantics or romantics, I guess is the proper way to say it. 593 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:54,040 And Jake Olbaum, who is known around town as being with the Foxes, which is just a kickass 594 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,040 pop rock band. 595 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,040 Okay. 596 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,040 Produced it, right? 597 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,040 Yes. 598 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:08,840 And then I think he and I wrote eight of the songs together, two of them I wrote by myself. 599 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:15,280 And I don't know, I mean, I, I had released my EP and I showed up two over Hercule one 600 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,040 day with this artist that we were playing a show and we were going to share bands. 601 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,200 So we had one band that went into all of our songs and Jake was, was in that band and 602 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,800 after rehearsal, he and I got to talking about the Foxes and we started talking about Rust 603 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,440 and Kelly, which at the time was one of my favorite songwriters, like I had been listening 604 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:37,520 to dying Star-R-Wat and that was really influencing some of the music that I was writing. 605 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:43,040 I had done a cover of his song, mock, I did a couple covers of his song and he followed 606 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:44,040 me on Instagram. 607 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,840 He is so fucking good. 608 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:46,840 God. 609 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:47,840 So good. 610 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,240 Why don't just one of my favorite writers. 611 00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:55,840 And Jake had actually played keys for him for a minute and Jake was like, yeah, he's like, 612 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,080 I could totally hear you doing stuff. 613 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,520 He's like, we should, we should write. 614 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,360 So we got together and we wrote Catch 22. 615 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:07,520 That's the third track on my hope with the emphasis on the antics album. 616 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:14,120 And I just loved that song so much and writing with him was, he just created such a safe and 617 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:22,600 open, good environment for me to write in just his, the places he would go musically. 618 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:29,840 Jake studied at Berkeley and has been, sorry, that is my friend's dog shaking her collar. 619 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,240 He's just so brilliant what he does. 620 00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:36,720 So I feel like he challenged my melodies in a great way and it was just a, it was a great 621 00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:37,960 collaboration. 622 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,800 We just started writing nonstop after that and we just kind of, we're on a roll. 623 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,640 I wrote Breaking a Sweat and take me on when I was out in LA. 624 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:51,760 I had the first chorus and verse of Breaking a Sweat in a little voice memo as I kind of 625 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,560 wrote that like a little beach boys vibe. 626 00:37:54,560 --> 00:38:00,040 I wrote all of Take Me On and then I brought those two back from LA to him and he immediately 627 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,040 got into producing. 628 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,480 I take me on and we finished, we finished up the bridge and tweaked the chorus on Breaking 629 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:11,120 a Sweat and then just songs kind of kept pouring from there and it was around the fourth 630 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,680 or fifth one that he was like, dude, let's, 631 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,560 let's make an album, let's just do it. 632 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,880 And we were going to do eight songs because that's the fair minimum. 633 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:24,080 We ended up throwing on either way, which is the another one that we're going to play today 634 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,520 on that album. 635 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:31,160 And then on hindsight, once we kind of decided to make an album, I was listening through 636 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:37,880 to the project as a whole and sort of realized that the whole theme of this album is like 637 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:48,000 this idealized romantic look on love that's based a lot off of like making someone bigger 638 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,240 than they seem or being really curious and romanticizing. 639 00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:56,480 Then there's a lot of tracks that are like right before you know someone and kind of just 640 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,760 building them up and building them up. 641 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:03,080 And I have a history of doing that, not just in romantic relationships, but in situations 642 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:08,840 and in my music and I'm, you know, I am a daydreamer at heart. 643 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:09,840 So I don't know. 644 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,120 I wanted to do it like for hopeless romantics. 645 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,760 And Jake was like, I don't like four because maybe just call it hopeless romantics. 646 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:23,320 And I was, I was making the graphic and then that's when I had the idea to capitalize antics 647 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:29,280 because another theme in there is like just doing absolutely ridiculous stuff for love. 648 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,280 Yeah. 649 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,200 I think some of the lyrics are just kind of quirky like there's that line that's hard to 650 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:40,120 get is so hot, which therapists does not love that much. 651 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,520 Well, let me talk about your lyrics a little bit. 652 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:52,760 I mean, I have and your style of music like you have done a really great job of combining 653 00:39:52,760 --> 00:40:01,000 like the best of Americana with modern pop sounds. 654 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:07,640 Like light me up is probably my favorite track of yours. 655 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:17,160 And then a close number two is I'm not your girl, but you have such a great, 656 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,920 lyrical style in terms of like your opening line for I'm not your girl as well as your 657 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,400 opening line for catch 22. 658 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,480 Like they stop you in your tracks like what the hell am I just going to be listening to? 659 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:37,040 Like you like within a span of four to nine words, you have absolutely opened up your heart 660 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:42,360 and let everybody know like holy crap, you're going on a ride. 661 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:49,040 That's not so that's not full writing like I that is something that I feel like I was trained 662 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,720 as a Nashville writer to do is is hook them with that opening line. 663 00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:59,520 I was when I was like, you know, 15 16 bar has set me up to write with Will Rambo who had 664 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:05,320 some faith hill and some a grow cuts and I got to write with some like classic country heavy 665 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,080 hit or songwriters. 666 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,600 And there is that three chords in the truth that I feel like I was trained in early on 667 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:17,360 by those guys, which is that opening line needs to hook on. 668 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,680 And then you know the tell a story kind of kind of thing. 669 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,120 So that I was heavily influenced by that. 670 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,120 Yeah. 671 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:29,560 Well, I first saw you four years ago this month, actually four years ago last week when 672 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,560 you played the girls in Nashville show at city winery. 673 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,800 That was a world shut down. 674 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,800 Right literally right before. 675 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:38,800 Right three days. 676 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:44,000 Well, and if you recall correctly, there was a big tornado that night. 677 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,000 Oh, yeah. 678 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,000 That was. 679 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,000 Oh gosh. 680 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,000 I was terrified. 681 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,000 Yeah. 682 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,000 That hit. 683 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,600 It was off of Main Street where it went down at that time. 684 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,880 That was, yeah, as well. 685 00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:01,320 But that night just absolutely blew me away. 686 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,520 Not seeing you Liz Longley was also on that bill. 687 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:07,520 Amazing. 688 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:08,520 Yeah. 689 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,920 And Caitlin Smith of course, and we had just moved here from Seattle. 690 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:21,320 And then we had been in town just a couple of weeks and we saw that show and was just 691 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:22,920 absolutely blown away by it. 692 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,760 And then of course six weeks later, you know, the power grid. 693 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:28,760 You know, Nashville. 694 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:29,760 Yeah. 695 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,760 It was wild. 696 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,960 Yeah, but yeah, I've the other thing I love about you're writing too is that you don't, 697 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:43,120 you know, Nashville has a way of saying, you know, everything's got to be under three 698 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,520 minutes or you know, you following that three minute rule for songs, but you know, for 699 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,040 you, you're like, nah, whatever. 700 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,880 I'm going to, I'm going to clock this one in at three and a half. 701 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,600 I'm going to clock this one in at four. 702 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,680 Like, you know, I go ahead. 703 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:03,360 Well, you know, as far as timing goes, I think, yeah, the two and a half three minute rule 704 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,800 applies if you're trying to really get played on radio. 705 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,760 But I've just been so focused on just being an independent artist and right now it's like 706 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,680 that you're trying to get sound by its viral anyways. 707 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:21,280 You're just trying to get like a 15 30 second part of the sound viral anyways and people 708 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,000 are going to go listen to the song and the length of the song doesn't affect the way that 709 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,200 your song will get play listed on editorial playlists. 710 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:34,440 So I wouldn't say it's been a concern because it's not like having a three minute song isn't, 711 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,480 I'm not pushing for like, terrestrial radio. 712 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,720 And for my friends who write specifically for country radio, you know, they're still kind 713 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:42,720 of following those guidelines. 714 00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:45,320 But I just feel like I don't really have to. 715 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,440 Yeah, it's a double ed sword, you know, because if you go back and look at like some of 716 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:57,040 the greatest pop songs in the history of music, like a lot of those first Beatles songs, 717 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,120 two minutes, 15 seconds, two minutes, 30 seconds, right? 718 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,160 Yeah, I think breaking a sweat is two and a half minutes. 719 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:08,400 Yeah, you know, so, you know, I think that you just at the end of the day, you know, 720 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,680 you just have to be true to the song. 721 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:19,120 And if the song ends up, 215, 230, find whatever, but like don't, don't take something like 722 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,960 catch 22 or I'm not your girl and chop it up because it's got to be under three minutes, 723 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:24,960 right? 724 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:25,960 Yeah. 725 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:26,960 That's my thing. 726 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,000 I'm a bit of a purist that way, you know? 727 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,640 Yeah, I don't think it matters that much. 728 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:37,160 Also you can have a radio version for your song that you put for radio, you know, you 729 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,840 can just do a lot these days. 730 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:45,920 And I do think doing what's best for the song and being true to the song is the most important 731 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,720 because there's so many phenomenons and exceptions to the rule. 732 00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:55,000 Currently on radio that has been on radio that goes viral every day. 733 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,000 Yeah. 734 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,880 So yeah, you just have to do it, do what you want. 735 00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:04,400 I'm one of those purists though that like when I hear like the radio edit version of 736 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,360 like a song by the who where they've cut out like the instrument, I get pissed, I'm like, 737 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,840 fuck you guys, you know, change the channel, you know? 738 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:12,840 Yeah. 739 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,840 Yeah. 740 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:20,760 Well listen, we're going to, we're going to finish up here with the song either way. 741 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,440 So tell us about it. 742 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,440 Yeah. 743 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:32,920 So the song is really about my personal relationships with, you know, people in my family are friendships. 744 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,640 Sort of a broad song for me. 745 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:42,360 There's been a lot of generational trauma in my family and me and my closest friends have 746 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,880 gone through a lot of like, you know, they're experiencing trauma, they're healing through 747 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:51,400 something and love is just really difficult. 748 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,680 Unconditional love is really tough and it's very hard to navigate. 749 00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:02,560 But this is a song about just my unconditional love for the people that I choose in my 750 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,560 life. 751 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,920 And I think it's one of those songs to where it's really moldable for a lot of situations. 752 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:16,440 I've had people say, oh, this song reminds me about my mom or oh, this song reminds me about 753 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,520 my boyfriend who's bipolar. 754 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:29,400 Whatever it is, it just is a song about unconditional love between people who are not perfect. 755 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:30,400 Fantastic. 756 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:37,560 Well, Bonner, I really appreciate you coming on the show, stick around. 757 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,800 We'll talk a little bit in the green room afterwards. 758 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:48,920 But I am a big fan ever since I saw you four years ago, I've followed your music and I really 759 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,320 hope you conquer the world. 760 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:56,080 I think you're one of the best out there and it's a, it's, it's, it's a lot of fun for me 761 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,320 just as a fan of your music to have you on the show. 762 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,320 So I really appreciate your time. 763 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,240 Well, thank you for saying that and hyping me up. 764 00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:06,280 Words of affirmation is my love language. 765 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,280 So I really appreciate it. 766 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:09,280 Right. 767 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,800 And I'm happy to have come on. 768 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:11,800 This is very fun. 769 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:12,800 All right. 770 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:19,440 That's Bonner Black and taking us out and the song is called either way here on the fan 771 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:24,720 and power business hour, pocket business in the, in the, in the, in the out so the music 772 00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:31,720 industry with a Nashville independent artist, Bonner Black. 773 00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:41,600 Even when your eyes are cold, even when your words are cruel and digging too much, it 774 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:42,600 doesn't matter. 775 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:50,040 I won't let you run away, you say gold, but I will stay. 776 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,920 You ask why, hey, it doesn't matter. 777 00:47:53,920 --> 00:48:04,400 You can be sweet as the smell of summer rain on fresh, card golden, bales of, hey, 778 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:09,360 you can be mad as a level five hurricane. 779 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:15,440 I would love you either way. 780 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:20,400 It's not your fault that daddy's gone and you're who mama blames it on. 781 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:25,880 You're learning to one learn the things it taught you. 782 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:31,720 Some say it ain't worth the fight, that sounds nice, but it don't feel right to turn my back 783 00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:34,840 on who my heart belongs to. 784 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:45,320 You can be sweet as the smell of summer rain on fresh, card golden, bales of, hey, you 785 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:50,320 can be mad as a level five hurricane. 786 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:55,200 I would love you either way. 787 00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:04,400 You can be gentle as a wind, pushing paint, rush clouds out west to turn red as the sun 788 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:10,760 goes down on harsh earth and the desert's worst drought. 789 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,080 I would love you either way. 790 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:34,200 You can throw your keys down on the kitchen floor and cry in my arms till they get short 791 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,600 and bring me my coffee in bed the next morning. 792 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,200 Yesterday was just a bad day. 793 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:53,240 I'll drive you to therapy and wait for you and the car will say you'd have a good heart 794 00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:57,320 to heart cause for a bad or a worse. 795 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:04,880 For all that you are, I love you either way. 796 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:27,960 I love you either way. 797 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:33,280 My thanks to Nashville singer songwriter Bonner Black for that beautiful song and joining 798 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:40,200 us on the show today talking about her business model and how she gets it done. 799 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:46,360 Love how she incorporates birds into her merchandise and into her brand and of course that's 800 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:51,560 the way she finished up that song if you caught that beautiful outro there with those nice 801 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,600 nature elements at the end. 802 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,360 Thank you guys very much for listening. 803 00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:01,120 If you found value in this podcast we would greatly appreciate a donation to our Albi 804 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,120 Wallet. 805 00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:07,480 Hit it from your phone via Fountain or Podverse or podcast or True Fans however you are 806 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,320 checking us out today. 807 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,800 We will see you next Wednesday for another edition of the Phantom Power Music Hour. 808 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:15,480 Thanks so much. 809 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:25,480 [MUSIC]