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(upbeat music)

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Hello, all you happy people.

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Nice to see your smiling faces once again.

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Welcome back to the Phantom Power Business Hour.

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Today, I wanted to bring in one of the guys

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from the valueverse, from all of these podcast shows,

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who's got some legitimate radio and record industry background.

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And so I call up my buddy Cody Christopher,

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who hosts a great value for value music podcast,

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music value cast called The Sidestream Music Podcast

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that you all should definitely check him out and listen to.

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He's got another one too, called Smash My Records.

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Sidestream is definitely the leading one that he puts out.

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But he is a legit DJ.

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This is a dude that's been in the industry for 30 years now.

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And we had a great discussion of radio and independent radio

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and record labels and the history of record labels.

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And then we dive into V for V and why it's important,

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why it's such a great opportunity for musicians.

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So if you guys know any musicians who are interested

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in what the hell is going on here

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and how musicians are getting paid in Bitcoin

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and all of the great opportunities that are bound

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in value for value, this is a podcast for them.

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Please share this with them.

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I'm gonna split this show 50/50 with Cody.

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If you like the show, if this show brings value into your life,

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I would ask that you give Cody and I some value back,

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V of V for V.

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So with that said, I'm gonna shut up

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and let's bring on Cody.

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Everybody ready?

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Got your popcorn?

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Here we go.

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Ah, welcome everybody.

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Thank you for joining us for another edition

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of the Phantom Power Business Hour.

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I'm really excited to talk to Cody Christopher today.

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Cody's down.

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Are you in Texas?

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Where are you?

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Are you in Texas?

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I am in Texas.

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Actually, of course, of course, because you and Adam are tight.

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But the reason why I'm excited to talk to you is because

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you're one of the few podcasters, value casters,

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industry professionals in this space

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that really is old school radio.

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Like, you've been in the industry for years

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and I thought it would be fun to talk about

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how the record industry has changed from when we were kids,

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how the radio industry has changed from when we were kids

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and then get into value for value and all that kind of stuff.

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So with all that said,

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hi, introduce yourself, sorry.

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Hey kids.

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Hey man, thanks for having me.

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Hey buddy.

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I appreciate it.

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I'm not always the goober that you hear on side stream.

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Yeah, you've got side stream and smash my records, right?

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Yeah, and smash my records.

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We tried to launch that.

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And once I got inside and started feeling my way

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around the valueverse and checking out some of the bands

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I noticed that we had a pretty shallow pool to choose from

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as far as the stuff I was aiming for.

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You know, good, good content that I was comfortable

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with pushing out to listeners, man.

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I'm a stickler for like, I've been picking hits

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for a long time, you know?

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Yeah, you got in the airport.

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Yeah, got in the airport.

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Yeah.

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And I want to, I want to present,

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you know, every morning on the air, I try to present

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a wonderful show to my listeners, you know,

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to get them cranked up and ready to tackle the day.

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And that's kind of what I wanted to do with this show.

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I wanted it to translate as like a radio show

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and I wanted to be a good quality and fast paced

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and you know, moving with like a morning show type feel.

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Yeah.

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And that's what we're trying to accomplish here.

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Now, how long have you been in radio?

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Like when, when should you get your first gig?

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It's a summer of 86.

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Yeah, I know.

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30, 38 years.

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I was going to say, what were you like for?

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Oh, it's 12.

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(laughing)

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Four years old.

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And he out-asked at the, the ash trays.

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Yeah, these days, man, that would probably fly.

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I mean, yeah.

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Damn, you've been in the business 30 years.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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When did you get your first disc jockey gig?

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12.

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Yeah.

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When you were 12?

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Yeah, when I was 12.

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So, and that was my introduction to radio.

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I, around town, I was, I wanted to be a disc jockey.

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So people could hire me out for like weddings and class reunions

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and stuff like that.

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And my setup was like a CD player like from JC Penney's.

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Well, that came later.

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But my first setup was one of those realistic mixers

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from Radio Shack and two cassette decks.

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And that fed into a guitar amplifier.

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(laughing)

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That was my, that was the, was it a PV?

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No, it was not.

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It was like some knockoff brand

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and it had one 15 inch speaker in it.

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And it was, you know, gain and high low mid and a master

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and a big glowing light.

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(laughing)

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Fantastic.

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That you bought from Radio Shack or Sears, Sears and Robuck

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or whatever.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Okay, so that first gig that you had,

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I'm assuming that that was an independent radio station,

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correct?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Radio station KKAP FM and Floyd Data, Texas.

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That's where I was born and raised out in West Texas.

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It's a hop-skip and jump away from Lubbock.

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Lots of red raiders fans out there.

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Lots of wind turbines out there.

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Yeah, man.

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I mean, it's just, you know, it's cotton and corn and, you know,

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that's just, it's West Texas, man.

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But that's where I got my first radio gig.

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I would sneak in, well, not really sneak in,

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but I would go into the radio station,

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my grandparents lived about a block behind the radio station.

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I would go into the radio station a few times a week

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and fill out applications that never called me.

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And so once upon a time,

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this was in a building along with like in a praisel office

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and insurance and so there were several businesses

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that were there, but there was one central Xerox machine

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and I could see it and it was way down the hall.

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And so once upon a time, the secretary left the room

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where the lobby and there was a glass door

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where you could watch the disc jockeys.

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And so that's what I would do.

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Set the lobby, watch the disc jockeys

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and listen to them over the intercom.

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And so this gal goes down the hall of the Xerox machine.

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I sneak behind her desk and look at the numbers

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that are on the wall, get the owner's number,

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I call them at home, then I get the gig.

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Paul Zee, love it.

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- Long story short.

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- Yeah.

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- So when you were doing this in the 80s,

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when you started coming up in the 80s,

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there was around 300 independent radio stations

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in America, roughly, maybe a little more.

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Now there's less than 100 independent radio stations

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in America.

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You have a really good insight as to why that is

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from everything from the Telecommunications Act of '96

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to Bane Capital, all that kind of stuff.

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Give us an overview.

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You have been watching this industry come down

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since the day you got in.

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- Yeah.

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So tell us what the hell is going on with radio

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in America right now.

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- Wow.

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Okay, so when I stepped in the studio,

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we were playing 45s and 12 inches.

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And along with the technology progressing

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and delivery methods for me,

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I'm gonna fast forward through a lot of years

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because it was really grassroots record-no-able.

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- Yeah, we could get myopic,

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but let's try and keep it 35,000 feet, right?

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- Yeah, record labels used to call you

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and used to push records for you.

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Every once in a while,

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you might have a record rep to show up at your place

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and they may have an artist with them.

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Those days, unless you were one of the big conglomerates

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of one of the huge, you know, eye hearts

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or one of the large stations in metros,

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you don't get that.

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- They're a channel more.

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- Yeah, what, they're a good, yeah, clear channel.

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- Yeah, they're untouchables, you know,

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for the smaller guys.

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Now, I happened to work for one of those

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less than 100 independent radio stations in the United States.

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I work for a company called Jam Broadcasting

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and it is one of my best friends

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who I've known for 30 years.

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I got him his first gig in radio

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and now he owns radio stations and I happen to work for him

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and it's a great gig because, you know,

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we've been through all of this stuff kinda together.

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We work for all the assholes

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and so we kinda know how to do it, right?

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And we're very independent, man,

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we don't do it like, you know, like the big guys do.

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But, man, so much has changed since those days

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that's been in the 45s and the technology getting to

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the point where we can go and with a few clicks

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can download the new single.

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And the thing that sucks, man, is the communication

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between the labels and the artists,

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all of that stopped when this, you know,

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when we got to the point with digital delivery.

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And those phone calls from your record reps stopped.

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And you didn't get tickets to concerts anymore, you know,

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that was kinda the pay all of it.

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- Yeah.

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- That we didn't talk about, you know, they never said,

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"Hey, they never said, "Hey, I've got a few tickets

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for you if you'll play this."

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But they would always say something like,

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"Hey, man, if you don't mind, give that new Blink 182 spin."

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And, "Hey, man, if you ever need anything, let me know, you know?"

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If you're ever in town, any shows you wanna go to, let me know.

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- Yeah, so I got a couple of Omaha stakes in the trunk.

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You want them?

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(laughs)

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Yeah, so talk a little bit about the pay,

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like for the younger musicians that we're trying to onboard

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who we want to listen to this podcast,

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to give us some examples of payola back,

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you know, from before, when you got into radio

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to what you saw,

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you know, since you've been in the industry.

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- Yeah, man, and we've all heard the stories, you know,

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coming up from all those old jocks, man,

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the vets in radio that were, you know,

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that were playing like Bill Haley in the comments

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for the first time, man.

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I got to, you know, to talk to some of these cats along the way.

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And, yeah, they talked about payola,

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somebody walking in with the record

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with a little bit of cash in there,

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and they would give it a spin or a play,

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or they did have tickets to a show,

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and maybe they'd give them a limo ride,

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along with the big record label.

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- Exactly.

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- You know?

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- And it ate out aag of Columbia and fairy dust.

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- Maybe that might fall down.

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- Maybe, something.

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- You saw that, maybe that happened.

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- Maybe that happened somewhere.

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- Yeah.

263
00:12:01,140 --> 00:12:05,260
But those days are long gone, man.

264
00:12:05,260 --> 00:12:08,020
But there was an exchange where,

265
00:12:08,020 --> 00:12:11,300
you know, the label was trying to get something,

266
00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:12,460
they were trying to get ahead.

267
00:12:12,460 --> 00:12:15,180
And of course the label was always gonna come out ahead.

268
00:12:15,180 --> 00:12:19,420
So, a little bit of payola didn't hurt,

269
00:12:19,420 --> 00:12:22,060
but totally illegal and against the law,

270
00:12:22,060 --> 00:12:26,420
and I never really saw that stuff happen like that.

271
00:12:26,420 --> 00:12:29,140
No one ever slipped me any cash.

272
00:12:29,140 --> 00:12:32,580
But like I said, there were ways around it.

273
00:12:32,580 --> 00:12:35,020
If you ever need it, hey, man, you ever need backstage

274
00:12:35,020 --> 00:12:37,100
to whatever, give me a call.

275
00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:37,940
Let me know.

276
00:12:37,940 --> 00:12:39,500
We can make it happen.

277
00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:41,660
- Do you think it still happens today?

278
00:12:41,660 --> 00:12:44,740
- Yeah, it probably does in some form or fashion.

279
00:12:44,740 --> 00:12:46,100
It doesn't happen to me.

280
00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:49,060
- Well, what is like as an independent label,

281
00:12:49,060 --> 00:12:51,740
or excuse me, as an independent radio station,

282
00:12:51,740 --> 00:12:58,740
if I'm a band and I wanna get on your radio station,

283
00:12:58,740 --> 00:13:01,980
what are the chances of an independent artist

284
00:13:01,980 --> 00:13:04,180
getting on an independent radio station today?

285
00:13:04,180 --> 00:13:07,940
- Well, if you sound, if you sound,

286
00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:10,940
it's the same thing that I'm after on value for value.

287
00:13:10,940 --> 00:13:14,700
If it's a good song, and sonically it sounds good,

288
00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:17,740
and I'm into it, man, I'm willing to give it a play.

289
00:13:17,740 --> 00:13:22,500
I have my listeners to give me suggestions all the time,

290
00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:24,900
and sometimes I roll those for the first time

291
00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:27,620
and then go, hey, we'll throw that into rotation.

292
00:13:27,620 --> 00:13:29,940
We don't do regular rotations around here,

293
00:13:29,940 --> 00:13:33,260
like you would find at the big metro stations

294
00:13:33,260 --> 00:13:36,580
where you hear the same songs every two, three hours.

295
00:13:36,580 --> 00:13:38,940
We're completely independent.

296
00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:40,540
We do what we want.

297
00:13:40,540 --> 00:13:45,540
I always have publications reaching out to me

298
00:13:45,540 --> 00:13:49,500
that want us to report our plays to them,

299
00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:51,740
our spins to them.

300
00:13:51,740 --> 00:13:54,460
And once you start doing that,

301
00:13:54,460 --> 00:13:57,540
then you are inundated with a bunch of emails,

302
00:13:57,540 --> 00:14:01,620
usually not a lot of phone calls in the rock world

303
00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:02,620
for some reason.

304
00:14:03,620 --> 00:14:07,860
But your email is usually inundated with a bunch of pitches

305
00:14:07,860 --> 00:14:12,580
for records and download now, going for ads now.

306
00:14:12,580 --> 00:14:14,180
We're going for number one.

307
00:14:14,180 --> 00:14:15,820
And you have those promoters,

308
00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:18,580
those independent promoting firms

309
00:14:18,580 --> 00:14:20,700
that are hired by either the label

310
00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:22,780
or the artist or the artist management,

311
00:14:22,780 --> 00:14:25,660
that just inundate you with these things.

312
00:14:25,660 --> 00:14:27,060
And sometimes it's really bad,

313
00:14:27,060 --> 00:14:29,580
and sometimes you find some gyms in there,

314
00:14:29,580 --> 00:14:31,980
where is in value for value,

315
00:14:31,980 --> 00:14:33,380
I have to go and hunt for it.

316
00:14:33,380 --> 00:14:36,060
There's not anybody feeding it to me.

317
00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:37,580
And that's the thing,

318
00:14:37,580 --> 00:14:39,260
I don't want anybody feeding it to me.

319
00:14:39,260 --> 00:14:41,100
So we don't report to these publications

320
00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:46,100
because I don't program for the masses and the metros.

321
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:49,140
And we really program for our community.

322
00:14:49,140 --> 00:14:53,100
- Yeah, I mean, we could split off

323
00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:54,620
and talk about value for value now,

324
00:14:54,620 --> 00:14:55,620
or we could,

325
00:14:55,620 --> 00:14:58,060
but I wanna stay on radio

326
00:14:58,060 --> 00:15:02,060
and remind me to talk about the quality of recording

327
00:15:02,060 --> 00:15:05,180
before we wrap up this conversation today.

328
00:15:05,180 --> 00:15:07,180
But I also wanted to talk about

329
00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:13,860
the Federal Telecommunications Act of '96,

330
00:15:13,860 --> 00:15:14,780
the Clinton signed.

331
00:15:14,780 --> 00:15:16,620
And the goal of that was to,

332
00:15:16,620 --> 00:15:18,740
court and court increase competition

333
00:15:18,740 --> 00:15:23,020
by lifting station ownership caps,

334
00:15:23,020 --> 00:15:27,060
like one company couldn't own more than three or four.

335
00:15:27,060 --> 00:15:29,220
The goal of it was to increase competition,

336
00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:30,700
but it really had a back

337
00:15:32,020 --> 00:15:32,980
of backwards effect.

338
00:15:32,980 --> 00:15:34,260
It really did the opposite

339
00:15:34,260 --> 00:15:38,100
because you started to see this massive consolidation

340
00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:40,460
of the radio industry of all these radio stations

341
00:15:40,460 --> 00:15:44,300
around the country, which then dictates playlists.

342
00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:47,500
And now you have, and correct me if I'm wrong,

343
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,500
but you've got only a handful of program directors

344
00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:54,540
around the country that are literally telling these stations

345
00:15:54,540 --> 00:15:55,860
what they can and can't play

346
00:15:55,860 --> 00:15:58,180
and they're programming the shows for them.

347
00:15:58,180 --> 00:15:59,740
- Yeah, they're consulting.

348
00:15:59,740 --> 00:16:00,580
- Yeah.

349
00:16:00,580 --> 00:16:03,020
- They just got some local guy like here in Hendersonville,

350
00:16:03,020 --> 00:16:04,500
it's like, well, it's 52 degrees.

351
00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:07,180
Look out over on Nashville Pike, the tornado.

352
00:16:07,180 --> 00:16:09,220
It's still wreaking havoc.

353
00:16:09,220 --> 00:16:10,060
- Yeah.

354
00:16:10,060 --> 00:16:10,900
- Is that fair?

355
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:11,740
- Is that fair?

356
00:16:11,740 --> 00:16:13,620
- Yeah, it's very fair to say.

357
00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:15,340
I mean, they consolidated.

358
00:16:15,340 --> 00:16:18,460
They bought up all these radio stations.

359
00:16:18,460 --> 00:16:23,460
They got rid of, we'll say most of their personnel

360
00:16:23,460 --> 00:16:29,340
because they were using same staff to voice,

361
00:16:29,340 --> 00:16:33,340
same guys that were out in San Diego were voice tracking shows

362
00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:37,060
for folks in Idaho and in Kansas.

363
00:16:37,060 --> 00:16:38,460
And you know what I mean?

364
00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:40,420
- Yeah.

365
00:16:40,420 --> 00:16:45,300
- I gotta say, really pisses me off.

366
00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:46,380
Really pisses me off.

367
00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:50,860
Like when I hear the same voiceover guy in Nashville

368
00:16:50,860 --> 00:16:55,860
that I heard in Seattle, or that I heard in Tampa 15 years ago.

369
00:16:56,940 --> 00:16:58,860
It's like really?

370
00:16:58,860 --> 00:17:00,340
- Yeah.

371
00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:04,380
- The same guy, Dylan Bumpers, who's sitting

372
00:17:04,380 --> 00:17:07,060
in the studio in Burbank doing it.

373
00:17:07,060 --> 00:17:10,620
Like there's no local connection anymore.

374
00:17:10,620 --> 00:17:12,660
- Yeah, and that's the thing.

375
00:17:12,660 --> 00:17:15,020
Once these stations started consolidating

376
00:17:15,020 --> 00:17:18,500
and they were using that core staff

377
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:23,500
to voice track every where radio became less community

378
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,300
oriented.

379
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:28,260
And man, that's what radio is about.

380
00:17:28,260 --> 00:17:30,340
It is really about community.

381
00:17:30,340 --> 00:17:36,340
And you know when we came to the town where we're at now

382
00:17:36,340 --> 00:17:41,380
when my buddy bought these radio stations,

383
00:17:41,380 --> 00:17:45,020
there was another group here in town

384
00:17:45,020 --> 00:17:48,820
and nobody was really doing anything for the community

385
00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:53,260
except for the really big events, nothing else.

386
00:17:53,260 --> 00:17:55,700
We came to town and dug our heels

387
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:58,300
and our hands and everything.

388
00:17:58,300 --> 00:17:59,140
Yeah.

389
00:17:59,140 --> 00:18:02,900
And you know, just started getting involved in the community

390
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:06,220
and my friend that I worked for,

391
00:18:06,220 --> 00:18:10,700
he's one of the best solid human dudes that there is.

392
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:13,180
He doesn't know how to say no.

393
00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:19,660
But that has led to the success of our radio stations

394
00:18:19,660 --> 00:18:23,500
becoming very community involved and without that man,

395
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:24,980
we would not be here.

396
00:18:24,980 --> 00:18:28,620
I have guests in my studio every morning.

397
00:18:28,620 --> 00:18:33,620
It is just a round robin of guests

398
00:18:33,620 --> 00:18:37,300
and a revolving door of folks moving through here

399
00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:39,300
every morning and they're all community people

400
00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:44,300
and each one of them has something different to offer.

401
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:44,940
Yeah.

402
00:18:44,940 --> 00:18:48,260
Well, you guys live and die off of local ad revenue too.

403
00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:50,540
Yeah, you know, you're not into that.

404
00:18:50,540 --> 00:18:51,540
Yeah, you got it.

405
00:18:51,540 --> 00:18:53,220
I mean, you're not getting any handouts

406
00:18:53,220 --> 00:18:55,980
from the corporate office, you know,

407
00:18:55,980 --> 00:18:58,580
and over in Santa Monica or, you know,

408
00:18:58,580 --> 00:19:01,740
or Madison Avenue, you guys are local.

409
00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:02,580
We are not.

410
00:19:02,580 --> 00:19:04,780
Every once in a while, we might get a Dr. Pepper

411
00:19:04,780 --> 00:19:06,140
or a cooers line ad, but.

412
00:19:06,140 --> 00:19:07,660
(laughs)

413
00:19:07,660 --> 00:19:08,820
Yeah.

414
00:19:08,820 --> 00:19:13,820
Well, okay, so I think we've kind of described how radio,

415
00:19:13,820 --> 00:19:17,540
I mean, it was kind of a weird little history,

416
00:19:17,540 --> 00:19:21,980
but it went from being a large system

417
00:19:21,980 --> 00:19:26,460
with a weird system of payola and some back channel garbage

418
00:19:26,460 --> 00:19:29,140
to being in very grassroots promotion though.

419
00:19:29,140 --> 00:19:30,460
Let's not forget that.

420
00:19:30,460 --> 00:19:31,300
Right.

421
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:36,300
To down to just a handful of major corporations

422
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:41,500
and a handful of independence around the country.

423
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:45,860
So we have witnessed the centralization,

424
00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:49,660
the monopoly building of the radio industry.

425
00:19:49,660 --> 00:19:50,500
Correct?

426
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:51,340
Over the past 40 years?

427
00:19:51,340 --> 00:19:52,180
Okay.

428
00:19:52,180 --> 00:19:53,020
Yeah.

429
00:19:53,020 --> 00:19:57,380
So I think we can say the same thing about the record industry.

430
00:19:57,380 --> 00:19:59,100
And so now that we've talked about radio,

431
00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:00,380
let's talk about the record industry

432
00:20:00,380 --> 00:20:02,780
and then we'll merge it all together into V3.

433
00:20:02,780 --> 00:20:04,700
But the record industry,

434
00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:09,700
nowadays, we're really only sitting on three or four major labels,

435
00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:11,220
right?

436
00:20:11,220 --> 00:20:13,180
EMI's the only UMG in Warner.

437
00:20:13,180 --> 00:20:15,420
Whereas when we were coming up,

438
00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:20,180
you had probably 12 majors and 50 legitimate.

439
00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:27,420
Miners, subs, everything from stacks, polygram, sub-pop.

440
00:20:27,420 --> 00:20:28,660
You know?

441
00:20:28,660 --> 00:20:29,660
Yeah.

442
00:20:29,660 --> 00:20:31,300
Oh my god.

443
00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:32,300
Yes.

444
00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:34,740
My life would not be the same without island records.

445
00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:37,180
I mean, you did get grown up, right?

446
00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:38,180
Yeah.

447
00:20:38,180 --> 00:20:38,700
Yeah.

448
00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:42,980
So what's been your experience with record labels

449
00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:48,700
over all these years as you've gone on your disc jockey journey?

450
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:53,660
I guess we'll go back to record labels actually having staff,

451
00:20:53,660 --> 00:20:58,260
A&R people, record reps that would make phone calls

452
00:20:58,260 --> 00:21:00,060
or that would arrive at your radio station

453
00:21:00,060 --> 00:21:02,780
like we talked about before.

454
00:21:02,780 --> 00:21:07,780
They had gone from that to with digital delivery again

455
00:21:07,780 --> 00:21:13,780
and having the luxury of the internet to downsize staff.

456
00:21:13,780 --> 00:21:17,140
We no longer, when we would call, we would get,

457
00:21:17,140 --> 00:21:22,060
it was just an electronic system of being tossed from this menu

458
00:21:22,060 --> 00:21:24,380
to that menu until you're just fed up

459
00:21:24,380 --> 00:21:28,140
or you finally make it to leave a voicemail

460
00:21:28,140 --> 00:21:32,100
and there's never a return or you find out

461
00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:35,300
that that rep no longer works for the company.

462
00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:37,700
And it's this person that's taking care of you

463
00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:41,580
that is from the country division that has moved over to,

464
00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:44,980
you know, and it was just a huge cluster, fuck.

465
00:21:46,620 --> 00:21:48,820
That was beginning to happen.

466
00:21:48,820 --> 00:21:54,900
I became less and less interested in charts.

467
00:21:54,900 --> 00:22:01,300
I became less and less interested into whatever was being spoon fed to us

468
00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:04,380
because we were being andundated with emails

469
00:22:04,380 --> 00:22:09,740
that this was coming, that this was on our desk now

470
00:22:09,740 --> 00:22:13,180
or there was a digital delivery system

471
00:22:13,180 --> 00:22:16,420
that we could take advantage of and get all this.

472
00:22:17,060 --> 00:22:19,940
So a disconnection again from the record labels

473
00:22:19,940 --> 00:22:22,060
and with the downsizing the record labels

474
00:22:22,060 --> 00:22:27,060
that meant downsizing a promotion for the artist as well.

475
00:22:27,060 --> 00:22:31,660
You didn't have those promotion departments

476
00:22:31,660 --> 00:22:34,060
and you hear these disasters of these bands

477
00:22:34,060 --> 00:22:37,140
that had these budgets to record these records

478
00:22:37,140 --> 00:22:39,300
and then when it came for release time,

479
00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:41,540
there was no promotion behind it.

480
00:22:41,540 --> 00:22:43,620
And so they lost record deals

481
00:22:43,620 --> 00:22:47,060
and some of them just became disenchanted with the music industry

482
00:22:47,060 --> 00:22:52,340
and put their guitars and cases and didn't pick them up again for, you know, 12, 13 years.

483
00:22:52,340 --> 00:22:55,220
And now we're seeing some of those guys do that.

484
00:22:55,220 --> 00:22:57,020
Yeah, it's fascinating.

485
00:22:57,020 --> 00:23:01,460
We've seen, we've gone from fewer gatekeepers,

486
00:23:01,460 --> 00:23:05,340
or excuse me, a lot of gatekeepers.

487
00:23:05,340 --> 00:23:11,260
And we can sit here and debate the merits of the record industry in the 70s and the 80s

488
00:23:12,020 --> 00:23:15,420
to having fewer gatekeepers and more people coming into the funnel.

489
00:23:15,420 --> 00:23:18,940
There's more artists out there now than there ever has been.

490
00:23:18,940 --> 00:23:25,580
Burtugrees. Number one, just procreation, you know, simple math, right?

491
00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:31,940
But I also think that, you know, it's been overglamourized, you know, being a musician

492
00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:38,100
and as I have said before, there's no barrier to entry into this industry.

493
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:41,060
You know, I mean, if you and I wanted to become doctors,

494
00:23:41,060 --> 00:23:45,300
we've got to go through X amount of school to get there, you know, if we wanted to become real tours,

495
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:47,980
we had, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a test.

496
00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:52,420
There's a license you have to acquire, you know, any moron can pick up a guitar

497
00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:59,300
and record into garage band or cakewalk or pro tools and throw it up on, on Spotify

498
00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:05,780
and start, you know, clogging the pipe, so to speak, you know, I mean, any, any

499
00:24:05,780 --> 00:24:08,100
novice can, can put music up there.

500
00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:16,340
So that's part of the reason why we have such a hard time with, with discovery is the

501
00:24:16,340 --> 00:24:22,260
amount of people who, who are in it. And the fewer independent radio stations,

502
00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:28,340
the fewer record labels, the fewer gatekeepers. So that's my take.

503
00:24:28,340 --> 00:24:35,460
And that, and, and that to me points to just the beauty of where you and I met,

504
00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:41,540
value for value, yeah. And getting your music up in a more decentralized

505
00:24:41,540 --> 00:24:49,540
fashion and having that direct relationship once again, or for the first time, for many artists,

506
00:24:49,540 --> 00:24:54,180
having that direct relationship with the people who are consuming your art.

507
00:24:54,180 --> 00:25:02,820
Yeah. This system is probably, and I don't know what we call it, still, the value for value

508
00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:10,660
community and, and music in the form of a podcast and we're able to, to play those,

509
00:25:10,660 --> 00:25:20,740
and, and dig and mine and, and find all of this, this new material, I think is rejuvenating.

510
00:25:20,740 --> 00:25:26,820
Like, like I talked about the guy who put his guitar up for 13 years and is finally starting to see

511
00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:34,500
some value being deposited into his lap, instant gratification like Adam talks about, you know. Yeah.

512
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:42,980
And I think that that's rejuvenated and, and, probably, spark something in some of these guys,

513
00:25:42,980 --> 00:25:50,820
because I know that some of these old dogs that have stuff out on value for value are now starting

514
00:25:50,820 --> 00:25:56,900
to put together new projects. One of those being John over at rubber factory records, man.

515
00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:00,740
I love that guy's stuff, man. He's got a new thing called drift current.

516
00:26:00,740 --> 00:26:07,540
Tell me. I'll have to send you a link. Maybe you can get that up to, to put in here, but,

517
00:26:07,540 --> 00:26:14,180
yeah, John over at rubber factory up at rubber factory records up north.

518
00:26:14,180 --> 00:26:21,380
He has a new project called drift current and this is probably with some of the, some of the,

519
00:26:21,380 --> 00:26:30,260
the guys that were perhaps in some of the bands on the label as well. And they just played the closing

520
00:26:30,260 --> 00:26:37,060
of a variety store in his neighborhood. And there's a really great video.

521
00:26:37,060 --> 00:26:43,620
I love the city. Yeah. He said the variety store had been there, you know, since he had grown up and

522
00:26:43,620 --> 00:26:49,140
it was closing and there's a real punk rock crowd there. So it's, it's very cool to see

523
00:26:50,260 --> 00:26:57,540
this spark and something in these guys that maybe set their instruments down and had to take on real

524
00:26:57,540 --> 00:27:06,740
jobs because, man, along with all this technology and Spotify, like I ran a small record collective

525
00:27:06,740 --> 00:27:12,420
myself and had a recording studio that I actually had artists to come in and pay the record records.

526
00:27:12,420 --> 00:27:18,500
And we went from before the introduction of Spotify, we went from recording, you know,

527
00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:28,100
three, four, four full links and, and a handful of EPs a year to going to just recording some EPs

528
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:36,500
a year and maybe a couple of EPs a year and then artists were coming in and saying, hey,

529
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:40,340
can we record a single and maybe if we have enough time, we'll do a B side.

530
00:27:40,340 --> 00:27:43,220
Yeah. Because,

531
00:27:44,420 --> 00:27:54,580
Spotify and these other platforms had now said to all of these independent artists, you have to

532
00:27:54,580 --> 00:28:05,540
release your music for free as well because all the big guys are. Yeah. You know, they, they dictated

533
00:28:07,220 --> 00:28:18,260
that they would have to release their music for free and so selling music is hard when it's out there

534
00:28:18,260 --> 00:28:23,460
for free. So you would have to go and you would play shows and you would sell t-shirts and you would

535
00:28:23,460 --> 00:28:27,940
sell keychains or whatever you could do to make the money, but it's hard, especially if you're

536
00:28:27,940 --> 00:28:33,300
in the rock industry. It's a little, I think it's a little different for each genre, for each

537
00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:40,660
circle, I think, but I worked with primarily punk rock and alt rock guys who were going out and

538
00:28:40,660 --> 00:28:46,020
playing shows with six other bands. The way that that would work is when they were on stage,

539
00:28:46,020 --> 00:28:51,780
once they got off stage, they could set up their merch after they played for 15 minutes. They

540
00:28:51,780 --> 00:28:58,100
could set up their merch and sell it for 15 minutes until the next band was done. And it was just,

541
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:04,340
yeah, it was a rotation, you know, because they may make $17 a night and then they have nine hours

542
00:29:04,340 --> 00:29:11,300
to drive to their next gig and that doesn't compute, you know. It didn't work. So artists were

543
00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:19,620
starting to become just really frustrated and they were broken down knowing that there was maybe not

544
00:29:19,620 --> 00:29:25,700
any future in this other than they were, they were doing what they love to do, but not being compensated

545
00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:35,860
in a way where they could live as a human, you know, sleeping in in vans and being homeless,

546
00:29:35,860 --> 00:29:44,580
is doesn't work, especially if you have a family. So, you know, they had to take on full-time jobs

547
00:29:44,580 --> 00:29:51,940
and go drive a van for UPS instead of driving their band around the country. So

548
00:29:54,820 --> 00:30:03,780
so much has changed in the digital realm, but I think we're starting to get to a point. I also think

549
00:30:03,780 --> 00:30:12,900
that TikTok, all these other mediums of sharing music, I mean, we've seen this all of our Anthony.

550
00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:19,700
Oh, yeah, yeah. Another example. What if one of those guys would come over to value for value? I know

551
00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:28,180
we've all said that. And I do, I think that we need someone like that to come over to value for value.

552
00:30:28,180 --> 00:30:33,060
There's good stuff, there's good stuff out there, man. And we can get into that later.

553
00:30:33,060 --> 00:30:40,660
Yeah, I think I've said this a couple of times now. I think that, you know, we're going to have an artist

554
00:30:40,660 --> 00:30:48,260
break out from here or we're going to have a household name who is no longer on a label, who maybe

555
00:30:48,260 --> 00:30:55,780
has, you know, and can make the decision who owns the masters to go to say, you know what, I'm not

556
00:30:55,780 --> 00:30:59,940
doing this Spotify thing anymore. If you guys want to find my new release, it's over here on this new

557
00:30:59,940 --> 00:31:06,500
platform. Yeah. I think that's coming. And the guy that first made me think about this is Hunter Hayes.

558
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:10,340
I went to go see Hunter Hayes with my daughter a couple months ago here in Nashville and he's

559
00:31:10,340 --> 00:31:15,140
freaking amazing. But he's independent now. And I'm like, wow, the hell is that guy independent?

560
00:31:15,140 --> 00:31:20,660
Right? Like, I mean, this is a platinum selling artist. This is a guy who's had number one. How is he

561
00:31:20,660 --> 00:31:26,020
in? How is he an independent? But I think the same thing could happen with like a major household name.

562
00:31:26,020 --> 00:31:32,740
Like it's not, it's not out of reach. I don't think to see somebody like, maybe it's like a

563
00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:38,660
wall flowers. Maybe it's like a matchbox 20 somebody who is no or a Cheryl Crow, maybe even who's no

564
00:31:38,660 --> 00:31:44,980
longer associated with a major labor who's an independent who could say, you know what, I still

565
00:31:44,980 --> 00:31:48,900
need to make a living and there's still value associated with my art. I'm going to put it over here.

566
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:54,660
And if you like it, you can give value back. If you don't like it, that's fine because everybody

567
00:31:54,660 --> 00:32:00,580
else has to give away their stuff for free anyways. So that value, that exchange of value that happens in

568
00:32:00,580 --> 00:32:08,500
this world because of Bitcoin because of the lightning network is game changing. And I

569
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:17,620
think we're going to see some massive societal shifts in the music industry in the next two to

570
00:32:17,620 --> 00:32:25,540
three years because of it. No doubt. I think if we play our cards right over here, I think that we

571
00:32:25,540 --> 00:32:33,060
can lose some faults over. It's a little, it is tough to onboard artist, you know? Because it's

572
00:32:33,060 --> 00:32:41,700
another task for them. They feel like it's you're pitching them another task to take on. But

573
00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:49,460
I've also had the advantage, I know a lot of these artists and I've had the advantage of

574
00:32:49,460 --> 00:32:59,140
of saying, hey, let me just upload a single for you and let's see what happens. And the response

575
00:32:59,140 --> 00:33:07,060
has been receptive that way when I said, hey, I'll do the task for you. Yeah. And we'll see what happens.

576
00:33:07,060 --> 00:33:12,980
And the response I've got is great. It's like, hey, man, these songs are just as much as yours as they

577
00:33:12,980 --> 00:33:18,820
are hours because a lot of these songs I worked on with these bands that I'm onboarding. I figured

578
00:33:18,820 --> 00:33:25,540
that those are the guys that I go after first. And name some of the bands. Name some of the bands

579
00:33:25,540 --> 00:33:33,860
that you've brought in. Corey Keller. Yeah. All Kings, all poets of love. That's one of Corey's bands as

580
00:33:33,860 --> 00:33:45,140
well. Boys home, a door. Yeah. Captains of moderation. Nice. For arm, shiver. Oh, I love those guys.

581
00:33:45,140 --> 00:33:51,540
Yeah. Yeah. Now let's be honest. We both have kids in this space, right? Yeah. Yeah.

582
00:33:52,420 --> 00:34:04,500
So my kids are in both boys home and a door. Which both of those are inactive right now.

583
00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:14,420
A door is still kind of a working project, but my oldest son, Christian, this is his first venture

584
00:34:14,420 --> 00:34:22,340
outside of any bands with his with his brother, Lenin, but he has a new band called Honor Choir.

585
00:34:22,660 --> 00:34:28,820
And they're based out of the Oklahoma City area. I love that name. I love that name.

586
00:34:28,820 --> 00:34:35,140
Yeah. So something hopefully, I know that they have Studio Time booked in April. And so I'm hoping

587
00:34:35,140 --> 00:34:43,300
that by summer, we'll see something from those guys. Yeah. Well, as far as onboarding musicians

588
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:47,860
goes, I mean, I know you and I were talking a little bit in the green room about, you know,

589
00:34:47,860 --> 00:34:52,500
some of the tech tech challenges to onboard musicians. I like your approach of saying, hey,

590
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:58,500
let me put it up for you. Yeah. Let's get you know, um, and that's similar to the approach that

591
00:34:58,500 --> 00:35:03,940
that that that I'm taking. It's it is, it is really hard to decipher whether or not you should or

592
00:35:03,940 --> 00:35:10,100
you shouldn't lead with Bitcoin because a lot for the majority of the response that I get from

593
00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:14,020
people when I talk to them about onboarding is don't lead with Bitcoin. It's just going to,

594
00:35:14,020 --> 00:35:18,020
you know, they're just going to glaze over. And even if you were listening to the to the V for V

595
00:35:18,020 --> 00:35:22,420
round table that happened the last week, which MeeV and Adam and a whole bunch of guys, you know,

596
00:35:22,420 --> 00:35:28,580
it's like, ah, don't lead with Bitcoin, right? And and and I think that that's viable in a lot of

597
00:35:28,580 --> 00:35:35,620
respects because most people aren't technically minded to jump off the deep end like that. Like most people

598
00:35:35,620 --> 00:35:40,420
don't go like, Oh, Bitcoin. Okay. I'm going to go run a node. You know, it's like, whoa, you know,

599
00:35:40,420 --> 00:35:44,500
there's, you know, there's some technical challenges there that a lot of people don't that a lot of

600
00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:50,020
people don't understand. For some, that's their path in and God bless them. That's great. You know,

601
00:35:50,020 --> 00:35:57,860
yeah. Um, for others, I think, um, what what I'm telling them and yet you tell me if I'm

602
00:35:57,860 --> 00:36:05,940
if if if I should adjust my pitch at all, but is I say, look, what whether or not you like your

603
00:36:05,940 --> 00:36:12,020
loves of, you know, you, you love or hate Spotify and iTunes and all that keep doing that keep doing

604
00:36:12,020 --> 00:36:18,420
TikTok, keep doing Instagram, keep doing all your co rights, keep doing all your gigs, but here's

605
00:36:18,420 --> 00:36:25,220
in a here's a another revenue stream. Add this into your business mix. I can, I can help you upload.

606
00:36:25,220 --> 00:36:32,740
I can help you get a wallet and then and then let's let's get some sats flowing and then and

607
00:36:32,740 --> 00:36:38,020
then let's have another conversation about your what about what your next steps are. That's kind of

608
00:36:38,020 --> 00:36:46,420
my approach and that and that approach is entirely based upon what their goals are and who they are

609
00:36:46,420 --> 00:36:52,180
as an artist, right? Yeah. Because if you're some legacy, but you know, like like my old band,

610
00:36:52,180 --> 00:36:58,900
local zero, you can find that stuff up up on the up on these sides. You can find it if you

611
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:04,340
search in the podcasting index, you like we haven't played together in 20 years. We're not going to do

612
00:37:04,340 --> 00:37:08,660
another project. We're not going to tour, you know, we might show up at somebody's backyard in the

613
00:37:08,660 --> 00:37:13,060
Los Angeles, you know, two years from now and play a really terrible set, but we're not going to do

614
00:37:13,060 --> 00:37:20,500
anything publicly anymore. Yeah. So our needs are completely different than somebody like FM rodeo or

615
00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:26,900
daddy, Nat or you know, Abby Neuer or whatever, who's, yeah, who's trying to get up there. So, you

616
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:32,980
know, I think what you tell artists to do in this space, first of all depends upon where they're at in

617
00:37:32,980 --> 00:37:37,860
their career, what they want to do with their music. And then how hard are they going to get in here

618
00:37:37,860 --> 00:37:42,820
and promote it because you and I both know you can't just throw your shit up here and expect to make

619
00:37:42,820 --> 00:37:51,460
anything right? Right? Like, well, you mentioned FM rodeo, okay? That's another band that I onboarded

620
00:37:51,460 --> 00:37:58,340
for God to mention those guys. I love those guys. Dude, Johnny is one of the hardest working dudes at

621
00:37:58,340 --> 00:38:04,180
promoting that I know promoting that band. And look, he has his, he owns his own business. It's very

622
00:38:04,180 --> 00:38:15,380
successful, but his heart is that music man. And he is always out there promoting FM rodeo or other

623
00:38:15,380 --> 00:38:22,660
bands in his circle. You know, I love that. And he's out over here. Well, and like, man like Quex,

624
00:38:22,660 --> 00:38:29,860
that dude of in Tanzania, he is killing it in the noster space and killing it on X.

625
00:38:29,860 --> 00:38:36,180
Like, I mean, that's a big reason why he keeps doing well because he's in, he's in the space promoting.

626
00:38:36,180 --> 00:38:41,540
Like, if you, if you're going to come into this space because you see all these artists doing

627
00:38:41,540 --> 00:38:46,660
well, if you're going to come in here and you're not going to promote, you're not going to,

628
00:38:46,660 --> 00:38:53,700
you know, it's like Adam says all the time, if you don't ask, you're not going to get anything back.

629
00:38:53,700 --> 00:39:00,100
Correct. You know? So I'll, I'll make the ask right now. Like, if you guys are digging this podcast

630
00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:07,300
and I'm going to split the sats with Cody on this, if you're digging it, boost it. Please do.

631
00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:13,940
Yeah, I could sure as I'll use it. Yeah, I mean, I, I love doing the stuff, but you know, as you can see from

632
00:39:13,940 --> 00:39:20,500
my setup, I could use a new microphone. I get, I'm not the professional DJ like you are with that.

633
00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:26,020
I might know that arm and whatever. I mean, like, you got a hot tub in your studio, dude. How'd you pull that off?

634
00:39:26,020 --> 00:39:35,460
I do. Very comfy over here, man. You look good, by the way. Well, thank you. You don't look so damn bad yourself.

635
00:39:37,140 --> 00:39:42,660
So let's go back to the onboarding. I think that you're right, man. And I think the guys on the round

636
00:39:42,660 --> 00:39:48,180
table are right. You can't approach it with Bitcoin. Bitcoin is like saying back in the day that you

637
00:39:48,180 --> 00:39:54,660
were dating someone online before that became a thing. You know what I mean? Like you, you would say

638
00:39:54,660 --> 00:40:01,460
that and then people would go, Oh, wow. Weirdo. You know, automatically. And so I think if you approach

639
00:40:01,460 --> 00:40:07,780
it up front, you get raised brows or they, it's like, Oh, man, I don't want this pitch, you know, I don't

640
00:40:07,780 --> 00:40:11,860
need somebody to tell me how to handle my financial future because that's what you get with some,

641
00:40:11,860 --> 00:40:19,060
you know, some of these days that are very, very passionate about it. And that's cool. But the thing is

642
00:40:19,060 --> 00:40:26,020
with onboarding, let's get these artists in and let's get them earning and on board them like you said.

643
00:40:26,020 --> 00:40:31,860
I think that that's some, some etiquette that you could follow if you're trying to onboard an audit artist,

644
00:40:31,860 --> 00:40:38,180
just as Jim said, but let's get them in and let's get them earning. And once they start to see that

645
00:40:38,180 --> 00:40:45,380
they're earning something because keep in mind that some of these guys never, you know, never received

646
00:40:45,380 --> 00:40:53,540
a check from Spotify or band camp or they never know. Right. Even if there's stuff's amazing, they'll

647
00:40:53,540 --> 00:41:01,540
never get it. Right. And so this and and keep in mind also when we talk about bands like

648
00:41:01,540 --> 00:41:08,580
Wobbity who've put 25 year old music out there and it sounds like it could have been delivered to

649
00:41:08,580 --> 00:41:15,380
my mailbox here at the radio station last week, you know, when we're getting, we're getting stuff

650
00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:23,780
like that. Some of these artists are starting to see stats sack up, stack up, they're starting to see

651
00:41:23,780 --> 00:41:33,220
real return for them, you know, that didn't see anything before. And this digital thing wasn't around

652
00:41:33,220 --> 00:41:43,780
for Wobbity back then at all. So maybe when they start to see these stats stack up and

653
00:41:45,060 --> 00:41:52,500
it heaks some curiosity in them to start digging in a little bit to value for value and maybe they

654
00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:58,580
get interested in Bitcoin, but it's just enough, you know what I mean? It's, but it's just enough for

655
00:41:58,580 --> 00:42:08,260
them to know because they have another thing to do and that is create music and to entertain. And

656
00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:16,820
this, you know, if they have to go back to freaking college to learn to learn things, then it's a turn-off

657
00:42:16,820 --> 00:42:20,900
forum, you know, if they think they have to go back to class to learn all this stuff in order to

658
00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:27,140
have their music there, then that's a turn-off. But I think like you said, you onboard these artists

659
00:42:27,140 --> 00:42:31,380
very similar to what you said and everybody's probably going to have their own flavor for that,

660
00:42:31,380 --> 00:42:41,460
their own hook. But when they get here and when that happens that they do become interested in Bitcoin,

661
00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:47,060
then I feel like that maybe these guys that are passionate about teaching that thing, that maybe

662
00:42:47,060 --> 00:42:52,900
we need to have some kind of educational protocol to teaching these artists about value for value

663
00:42:52,900 --> 00:43:00,340
and podcasting 2.0. And of course, that's tailored towards musicians and artists because you know that

664
00:43:00,340 --> 00:43:09,060
we are a different breed man. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody that has to relate to the artist and musician,

665
00:43:09,060 --> 00:43:16,740
someone who gets it, you know, on both sides, not just the business side of it and trying to make

666
00:43:16,740 --> 00:43:24,980
someone understand that because typically artists that get to a certain level have people that take

667
00:43:24,980 --> 00:43:31,700
care of those things for them so that they can create and do. They can't spend all of their time,

668
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:40,500
you know, in their on their phone or in their computers, they need to be out creating and playing

669
00:43:40,500 --> 00:43:46,980
shows and entertaining and doing what they do. So, and I feel like they'll learn enough, but we need

670
00:43:46,980 --> 00:43:53,220
to have, I feel like there needs to be some system. If they do become interested in it, we can show them

671
00:43:53,220 --> 00:43:58,020
that it's enough and it's not over their head, you know. Yeah. I think to, I think like

672
00:43:58,020 --> 00:44:06,580
showing people how the earnings can compound, right? Like if you were to say to somebody, look,

673
00:44:06,580 --> 00:44:14,340
like, you're, I love your song. It's got 30,000 spends on 30,000 streams on Spotify. You and I both know

674
00:44:14,340 --> 00:44:19,860
you didn't make anything on there. So let's put it over here and here's what I want you to do. I

675
00:44:19,860 --> 00:44:25,460
want you to engage a little bit on fountain and podverse and engage in in in some of these settings.

676
00:44:25,460 --> 00:44:30,180
Just get in there and say, thank you. Thank you for streaming my stuff. Thank you for streaming my stuff.

677
00:44:30,180 --> 00:44:35,460
And then let's, then let's talk in like 30 days and you come back to them in 30 days and you say,

678
00:44:35,460 --> 00:44:39,540
okay, how much did you, how many stats do you have? Well, I have this amount of stats and I'm like,

679
00:44:39,540 --> 00:44:47,620
okay, that's 10 bucks. That's 20 bucks. Whatever it is, that's five bucks. How much have you made off

680
00:44:47,620 --> 00:44:57,620
of saying thank you on Instagram? How much have you made by engaging with your audience on on X on

681
00:44:57,620 --> 00:45:03,300
TikTok? Most of them are going to say nothing. How much have you made with a hundred thousand streams

682
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:07,700
on Spotify? Most of them are going to say nothing. All right. So what do you think's going to happen if

683
00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:15,060
you really start to pay the same amount of attention that you are to the traditional social media

684
00:45:15,060 --> 00:45:20,100
platforms and you put that effort over here in this community. What do you think's going to happen?

685
00:45:20,100 --> 00:45:26,820
That five bucks, 10 bucks, 20 bucks is going to turn into a hundred bucks a week or 200 bucks a week.

686
00:45:26,820 --> 00:45:33,460
And that is not a pipe dream. I am seeing that happen. Man like Quex is a great example of that. Joe Martin

687
00:45:33,460 --> 00:45:40,100
is a great example of that. Yeah. And when you start to think about it, uh, it's salty, uh,

688
00:45:40,100 --> 00:45:47,700
brought it to my attention the other day that when Adam started Booster Grand Ball at the end of July

689
00:45:47,700 --> 00:45:56,900
of 23, Bitcoin was like a $29,000 or something. Yeah. And uh, what was the last week is like 53.

690
00:45:56,900 --> 00:46:04,100
Right. You know, so those sats that they collected back then, those sats that Cory Collector Keller

691
00:46:04,100 --> 00:46:13,700
was collecting back then are worth quite a bit more today than they were back in in July and August.

692
00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:20,340
You know. Yeah. I'm looking up. I'm looking up where it's at right now. What is it today? Let me see.

693
00:46:20,340 --> 00:46:29,380
Today it's 51.5. Okay. Double almost. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So well,

694
00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:35,940
that part of it is exciting. And I think that that part of it becomes exciting to the artist as well.

695
00:46:35,940 --> 00:46:42,420
Like what? It's worth more than what, you know, oh, you mean if I would have made $100 in July,

696
00:46:42,420 --> 00:46:49,060
it would have been worth $200 now if I just held it in that wallet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then they go,

697
00:46:49,060 --> 00:46:53,780
oh, well, maybe I should study up a little on Bitcoin. Yeah. You should, you know, because

698
00:46:53,780 --> 00:46:59,220
well, man, I'm learning this stuff too. Yeah. What's cool is I can, I can tell these artists that I'm

699
00:46:59,220 --> 00:47:06,420
learning this stuff too, but I have my, my own podcast. It's out there and people are listening and

700
00:47:06,420 --> 00:47:14,260
artists are, are seeing that in the form of boost. Well, you and I, you and I have a lot of shared

701
00:47:14,260 --> 00:47:19,940
history because we've, we've both been musicians and engineering and producing other people. You have

702
00:47:19,940 --> 00:47:25,460
more direct experience in radio than I do. I, and you probably have more direct experience with

703
00:47:25,460 --> 00:47:31,860
labels than I do, but we both share a passion for songwriters and independent musicians.

704
00:47:31,860 --> 00:47:38,980
And one of the things that I thought would be help of is if you and I have a quick discussion

705
00:47:38,980 --> 00:47:46,260
about some of the ugly truths about recording songs, quality of songs, and putting your best stuff

706
00:47:46,260 --> 00:47:51,220
up on the internet, or just submitting your best stuff to the radio station.

707
00:47:53,060 --> 00:48:01,620
I am, I admit, I am a bit of a, of a purist. I admit, like as much as I love tracking things and

708
00:48:01,620 --> 00:48:07,300
pro tools and cakewalk, I still love, I still prefer tape, just because of the sound of it.

709
00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:13,220
Yeah. Do you have that luxury, please, please track the tape? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, I mean,

710
00:48:13,220 --> 00:48:19,220
nothing will show you your weaknesses as a musician better than playing to tape. And I always,

711
00:48:19,220 --> 00:48:24,580
and I always believe as a musician that you should, you should be the worst person in the band.

712
00:48:24,580 --> 00:48:31,860
And you should always be trying to improve. That said, one of the things that drives me

713
00:48:31,860 --> 00:48:37,860
absolutely nuts that I wish musicians would do better is really take the time to get some

714
00:48:37,860 --> 00:48:45,620
honest feedback from other people about their writing and the quality of their recording.

715
00:48:46,900 --> 00:48:54,980
I have heard a lot of great songs in this space that are poorly recorded. Yep. And I cannot

716
00:48:54,980 --> 00:49:01,300
tell you enough in many respects, I kind of feel like a Simon Cowell in this regard. Like if you

717
00:49:01,300 --> 00:49:07,380
don't, if you don't have anybody around you saying, Hey, man, let's have somebody else record this,

718
00:49:07,380 --> 00:49:13,380
or you could do this better, or even better, you're a great writer, but you're not that strong of a

719
00:49:13,380 --> 00:49:18,740
singer. Have somebody else sing this for you? There's no shame in that. Like I think, you know, the,

720
00:49:18,740 --> 00:49:24,340
the low barrier to entry really bothers me, the, the, the lack, there's so many great bands here,

721
00:49:24,340 --> 00:49:31,220
but you got to, you got to weave through so much crap to find them. And, and, and, and I think that every

722
00:49:31,220 --> 00:49:40,020
artist would do, do themselves a huge favor by just getting it, surrounding themselves with people

723
00:49:40,020 --> 00:49:46,660
who are, who are not afraid to say, this sucks, or you could do this better. Yeah.

724
00:49:46,660 --> 00:49:57,220
Well, and I think that, that we, no matter who it is, we are not doing an artist or a band any

725
00:49:57,220 --> 00:50:05,380
favors if they do a half ass set and we say, that was great. That was good. Or they pitch us a song,

726
00:50:05,780 --> 00:50:14,900
that's horrible. And we say, yeah, that's great. I'm, I can't, I can't do that anymore. I,

727
00:50:14,900 --> 00:50:22,820
yeah. And I'm not like brutally honest, but it's like, hey, you know, this is good, but go back and,

728
00:50:22,820 --> 00:50:31,540
and work on, on it and, and come back. Classic story with, no doubt, Gwen Stefani and Jimmy Isleveen,

729
00:50:31,540 --> 00:50:38,180
you know, for years, no doubt was, was after it, you know, they want to Jimmy Isleveen to look at them

730
00:50:38,180 --> 00:50:43,300
and he just said, keep on working, keep on working until they got to that point. If you go back and listen

731
00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:50,100
to that. Yeah. Jimmy, Jimmy Isleveen was right, man, keep working, keep, keep, you know, go back to the

732
00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:55,940
wood shed and then come back with something better. And, and I think that we have to be honest with

733
00:50:55,940 --> 00:51:00,820
some of these folks and, and some of the podcasters out there need to know, it's not about just playing

734
00:51:00,820 --> 00:51:07,300
whatever comes out there first, you know, I'm not about jumping on whatever comes out first and I

735
00:51:07,300 --> 00:51:14,020
want to be the first guy to play it. If it's shit, I'm not playing it, man. If it's not, not, uh,

736
00:51:14,020 --> 00:51:23,140
sonically, uh, to perfection or, or broadcast quality, I would say, then I'm not playing it, man. Uh,

737
00:51:23,140 --> 00:51:29,620
and it might be a good song and you may have to say, this is a wonderful song, but this recording is

738
00:51:29,620 --> 00:51:35,540
horrible. Yeah. Don't get it done somewhere else. Bring it back in. I will play this, you know, there's

739
00:51:35,540 --> 00:51:41,780
three big things there that every artist needs to understand. There is the quality of the song

740
00:51:41,780 --> 00:51:52,020
itself as it's as a, as it's composed. Correct. Which is completely independent from the quality of

741
00:51:52,020 --> 00:52:00,500
your performance of the song, which is completely independent from the quality of the recording,

742
00:52:00,500 --> 00:52:07,540
not just the mic choice, but the mic placement, the instruments used, complete, you know, it could be,

743
00:52:07,540 --> 00:52:14,420
hey, this sounds great as an R&B song, but have you ever thought about having a band like FM

744
00:52:14,420 --> 00:52:22,820
rodeo, rip it to shreds and play it differently, right? Yeah. You know, I think that we get, and I,

745
00:52:22,820 --> 00:52:27,700
and I had a funny little conversation with Michael Rhee from Wabelake last week who's,

746
00:52:27,700 --> 00:52:34,740
yeah, who's lovely, the guy is so, he's such a good dude. And we were just kind of joking about, you know,

747
00:52:34,740 --> 00:52:39,140
the, about what we hear out in the industry and I said, yeah, you know, I, I'm not going to put on a

748
00:52:39,140 --> 00:52:44,180
song that I don't like in artists that is bad. And I said, you know, there's a, like that, that

749
00:52:44,180 --> 00:52:51,220
sarcastic asshole in me thinks that like a hit show would definitely be, well, here's why you're a song

750
00:52:51,220 --> 00:52:56,180
sucks, you know, and our, and the way, and it's sad because the, the way our culture is today, like,

751
00:52:56,180 --> 00:53:01,300
that show would just definitely get, would get it up, and probably go to number one. It's like,

752
00:53:01,300 --> 00:53:06,820
oh, what does he think sucks this week? Right. You know, so I would just, I really think that it's important

753
00:53:06,820 --> 00:53:11,860
for every musician out there to be honest with yourself and have the courage have not only have

754
00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:17,460
the courage, but, but believe in yourself enough that you can share your art with other people before

755
00:53:17,460 --> 00:53:23,460
you release it and go, all right, man, what do you think? Yeah. And I know, it's a, I know a lot, good,

756
00:53:23,460 --> 00:53:28,820
yeah. And I know a lot of bands out there that may be listening or artists that may be listening,

757
00:53:28,820 --> 00:53:34,260
go, yeah, man, it's easy for you guys to say to get into a studio and do it because it costs money.

758
00:53:34,900 --> 00:53:40,580
You know, and I understand that, but man, at least get one good song. And what I love about the value

759
00:53:40,580 --> 00:53:45,780
for value community is I feel like we're going to be able to open up, we'll be able to find

760
00:53:45,780 --> 00:53:55,380
recording engineers and mix engineers that want to help you that want to, you know, maybe producers that

761
00:53:55,380 --> 00:54:01,860
want to help you cut the best version of that song. And they may be willing to do it with some

762
00:54:01,860 --> 00:54:08,020
digital handshake, you know, it may not be something on the front end that you have to come up with.

763
00:54:08,020 --> 00:54:16,260
But, but here's the thing, it has to be a good song, right, a composition. And it has to be something

764
00:54:16,260 --> 00:54:26,500
that that that producer or recording engineer is into. So, you know, and I will put this out there,

765
00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:35,460
like if anybody wants to send me their unreleased material for an unbiased opinion, I will give it to

766
00:54:35,460 --> 00:54:40,260
you straight, man, I'm not going to, and I'm not going to worry about hurting your feelings. You

767
00:54:40,260 --> 00:54:44,580
want an honest opinion? I'll give it to you. And you can think I'm an asshole for telling you that

768
00:54:44,580 --> 00:54:50,340
that's fine. You're not going to hurt my feelings either, you know? I got actually got asked to be a

769
00:54:50,340 --> 00:54:54,500
part of a project recently by somebody in the V for V community. And I'm like, dude, that's not my

770
00:54:54,500 --> 00:54:58,500
genre. I love you. I love what you're doing, but you don't want me on that. Like that, that's not my

771
00:54:58,500 --> 00:55:05,060
strong suit. Like you got to be able to say that as well, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well,

772
00:55:05,060 --> 00:55:11,380
this has been fun. Yeah, it has, man. Is there anything you want to add?

773
00:55:11,380 --> 00:55:21,860
Man, so I have made tons and tons and notes since I've been doing this and listening to some of

774
00:55:21,860 --> 00:55:32,660
other podcasters, but man, the the ecosystem of the value for value music verse, I want to know how

775
00:55:32,660 --> 00:55:39,380
this is all going to work because we were talking earlier about record labels and, you know, and I know

776
00:55:39,380 --> 00:55:48,900
that at some point in time that the main stream dudes are coming because the buzz is already out

777
00:55:48,900 --> 00:55:57,220
there, but in terms of, you know, how do we operate? How do we promote within the system? Are there

778
00:55:57,220 --> 00:56:03,140
folks out there? No, I don't want it to turn into record label central, you know, but I feel like

779
00:56:03,140 --> 00:56:10,420
maybe there are some folks that are passionate about promoting music and street teams and maybe we

780
00:56:10,420 --> 00:56:15,220
go back to grassroots. I don't know what it is, but I feel like there needs to be some system.

781
00:56:16,260 --> 00:56:25,380
And nothing to dictate what you play, but when a band does spin that money to go out and make a

782
00:56:25,380 --> 00:56:32,180
damn good recording of a damn good song that we can play, we won't know about it unless there's

783
00:56:32,180 --> 00:56:38,900
somebody out there promoting it because I feel like, again, I feel like there's a rush for some

784
00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:45,700
folks to play something first and once that's played first, then then then it becomes like,

785
00:56:45,700 --> 00:56:50,020
"Ah, somebody's already played it." Right. No, we need to keep playing.

786
00:56:50,020 --> 00:56:57,220
And yeah, that's it. We need to keep playing it. Yeah, if it's a good song, get it up there, you know?

787
00:56:57,220 --> 00:57:04,260
And I think, like, I like what I'm seeing so far, like, people are grabbing onto the genres that

788
00:57:04,260 --> 00:57:09,860
they're familiar with the most, right? Sir Lebray over in California who does lightning thrashes,

789
00:57:09,860 --> 00:57:14,660
like he is the metal guy. That's his genre. No doubt. And if I run across new metal,

790
00:57:14,660 --> 00:57:21,140
I'm going to send it over to him. I think, I don't want to speak for Alan C. Paul, but I think he is

791
00:57:21,140 --> 00:57:28,660
seating, like, trying to put together a jazz thing and that makes total sense. He is a

792
00:57:28,660 --> 00:57:36,100
brilliant piano player and his music is amazing. That's his genre. Like, I think that we should all

793
00:57:36,100 --> 00:57:41,540
be helping each other out. Like, hey, if you're a metal guy, go talk to Sir Lebray because,

794
00:57:41,540 --> 00:57:46,820
you know, he's going to be your champion in the space. Or if somebody comes in and their jazz,

795
00:57:46,820 --> 00:57:53,540
like, hey, talk to, like, you know, I brought in, I brought in an Osh, but talk to me or talk to

796
00:57:53,540 --> 00:57:59,940
Alan C. Paul, like, and I think we're going to see hip-hop guys come in here. Like Adam says,

797
00:57:59,940 --> 00:58:06,740
we need more shows. We need somebody who loves and identifies with hip-hop to come in and do

798
00:58:06,740 --> 00:58:13,860
a hip-hop podcast. We need somebody who loves and identifies with electronic music, who identifies

799
00:58:13,860 --> 00:58:19,460
with the real Richards of the world who was on my artist hour last week. We need that dude to come in

800
00:58:19,460 --> 00:58:27,060
or that gal. Come in here. We need the people like homegrown hits. We need the updates. We need behind

801
00:58:27,060 --> 00:58:32,020
the schemes. We need all of these shows. All of us should be looking out for each other. All of us

802
00:58:32,020 --> 00:58:38,420
should be filtering in as many people as we can and referring them around to all these other shows.

803
00:58:38,420 --> 00:58:44,980
But what we also need to be doing is we need to be telling Bitcoin holders around the world.

804
00:58:44,980 --> 00:58:52,980
Please listen to music on these apps. Please start listening to music on fountain, on podverse,

805
00:58:52,980 --> 00:58:58,340
on curiosity, on true fans. Take a little bit of your money on the Lightning Network,

806
00:58:58,340 --> 00:59:03,700
which they'll understand because they're already Bitcoin holders. Please come over here. Start listening

807
00:59:03,700 --> 00:59:13,220
and start sharing. Start growing this community. Yeah. And consumers are of the music. You have to

808
00:59:13,220 --> 00:59:20,580
remember sometimes they're just fans. The Bitcoin stuff is a plus. But here's a cool thing on my FM

809
00:59:20,580 --> 00:59:26,820
radio show. I started promoting my podcast and saying, hey, I have this podcast that I do. And if

810
00:59:26,820 --> 00:59:33,940
you'd like to check it out, then check it out. So then I had guys that started messaging me via our

811
00:59:33,940 --> 00:59:40,820
texture here at the station or on message or saying, hey, man, how do I boost? You know,

812
00:59:40,820 --> 00:59:49,380
there you go. And see? Yeah. And that's it. And so now these guys are are buying up sats so that

813
00:59:49,380 --> 00:59:55,700
they can distribute them because they it's like it's like freaking candy crush. They are

814
00:59:55,700 --> 01:00:03,540
bottom tokens with the intent to spend the tokens. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. You're

815
01:00:03,540 --> 01:00:09,700
game of buying it in some respects. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like buying tokens or whatever it is that you

816
01:00:09,700 --> 01:00:15,300
do to throw at tick tockers or influencers while they're doing their their live stuff. It translates

817
01:00:15,300 --> 01:00:20,420
the same over here. They are buying those tokens with the intent of sharing them with getting

818
01:00:20,420 --> 01:00:28,420
nothing but entertainment and some some type of satisfaction in return. Yeah. Absolutely.

819
01:00:28,420 --> 01:00:35,700
Absolutely. And in turn with that handshake, the artist instant gratification. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

820
01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:39,380
Well, listen, we've been chatting for about an hour. You've got