I am
A little bit of loneliness, a little bit of disregard
A handful of complaints but I can't help the fact that everyone can see these scars
What I want you to want, what I want you to feel
But it's like no matter what I do, I can't convince you to just believe this is real
So let go, watching you, turn your back like you always do
Face away and pretend that I'm not, but I'll be here cause you're all that I got
I can't stand, so ain't it anymore?
Don't turn your back on me, I won't be ignored
I won't stand, let's get into it more
Don't turn your back on me, I won't be ignored
Welcome back. Here we go. Episode 26. True North episode 26, the investment grade Bitcoin equity
podcast. We are back. We are here talking about MSTR. We're going to talk about Bitcoin treasury
companies, long teeth. We're going to talk about leverage and maybe I'll pop us up on the screen.
There we go. We are back. Welcome back. Episode 26. We're going to talk about leverage,
Bitcoin buys, MSTR Bitcoin buys, talk a little bit about true North world, strategy world,
S&P 500 on the horizon, this Financial Times video, which I think is pretty hilarious. Everybody's
having a good time with that one. The Bitcoin treasury companies that have hit the scene
and dive into strike and strife a little bit and what it looks like making a market if we've got a
little bit time at the end. So without further ado, Tim has a guest in the office and maybe we'll
pass it over to Tim for not financial advice. Right. I'm Tim Kotzman. The entire thing you're
going to see in his live stream is only for informational and educational and entertainment
purposes only. Not financial advice. Back to you, Jeff. Beautiful. Excellent. Thank you,
Tim Kotzman and LaDosier in the New York office. They've got the pulse of the New York market.
So yeah, as they mentioned, none of this is financial advice. We appreciate the time.
For those that are new here, so True North, this podcast is the investment grade Bitcoin equity
podcast. And the idea with this podcast is that we get together, talk about MSTR, we talk about
Bitcoin treasury companies, and we talk about what's happening in the market. This is an incredibly
complicated trade, looking at MSTR and these other companies. And we are at the knife's edge of
what's happening in the industry. So we are very invested in what's happening with these companies.
And we have been very invested in these companies for a very long time. And that's why we're here
to talk about it. This is not a simple trade. This is not a simple thesis, buy GameStop to
bury the shorts and all the hedge funds. This is a new monetary shift. This is shifting into a
digital capital era and blazing the trail of this new financial frontier. So we are all incredibly
invested in what's going on here. There have been some interesting thoughts that have been passed
around in the community that we are a paid arm of strategy. That is definitely not the case.
We haven't taken in a single dollar aside from our sponsors that we got this last week at our
true North world event, which we broke even on, by the way, uh, we have not taken in any money
strategies, not paying us, nobody's paying us any money. And to emphasize why that is this,
what you can see on the screen here, this is the price of MSTR since, uh, what is this February
15th, 2023 through May 14th, 2025. The stock itself has gone up 1,317% in that time horizon.
And many of us on the stream were on leverage during this time period. So we have returns that
are greater than the 1,300% that is outlined here. Just to put this in perspective, MSTR in February
of 2023 was about a $4 billion company. Now it's about a $114 billion company. The reason that we
are talking about this is because strategy can go from $114 billion company to a $1 trillion company
and a $5 trillion company. There's going to be a ton of confusion within the market with people,
as we've seen today with the Financial Times video that they've put out to market.
There's a bunch of confusion out there and misunderstanding of the asset,
a misunderstanding of how the Bitcoin market is operating. And we're here to clear that up and
and provide some perspective because we care a lot and we've been at the front of the street
for a really long time. Anybody else have anything to add on that?
No. Yeah. I mean, it's easy. It's easy for people to say like we're paid, whatever.
And that's not to say we aren't getting paid. I mean, we're doing our best to advance
strategy and our cause and, and we will accept sponsors for future events like we have in the
past. But yeah, the truth, the fact of the matter is we are not getting rich off this.
It's fun. And the purpose of it, the purpose of True North, the whole goal of it, like while I put
this together was we were going to have these conversations, all of us on the screen and all
of us that have been in past episodes, we were all having conversations separately on MSTR and what
was going on in the Bitcoin space. And the goal was, okay, if we're just going to have these calls
about what's going on, why don't we just do it externally so everybody else can listen in and we
We can talk about what's going on.
We can talk about what we care about
and how the market's moving and what we're seeing.
One other thing I will share on my screen here.
This is a slide that I gave in my keynote
at True North World this last week.
And this is the formation of True North,
just to give people that weren't there
a little bit of background and history
on the creation of this group.
And back in October, so October 12th,
I sent this email to everybody in this crew here.
This was the call to action, MSTR True North.
The price of Bitcoin was at 63,000.
MSTR was at $210.
And the goal of True North was to be the unwavering, impenetrable beacon of factual information
because this is the biggest story in all of finance.
And there was going to be a meteoric rise.
We all saw that there's going to be a meteoric rise in MSTR and Bitcoin.
And there's going to be sustained hysteria and bewilderment.
That's where this bewilderment has really originated.
And we knew that this was going to change drastically.
The little screenshot over on the right-hand side, this is October 9th.
The price of MSTR was $188.
Bitcoin is $60,000.
I knew that we were about to get into price discovery.
So I put on my whiteboard a group of people.
I gathered the crew, which has evolved to where we are today.
And I had to put a group together that all has different diversified backgrounds with different perspectives.
and bringing something different to the environment. So that is how we got here.
And I think that's helpful context when there are people saying that we're paid shills and
just a marketing arm of strategy. It's definitely not the case. We're just incredibly interested in
this stuff. I'm a finance nerd. I worked in finance for 11 years. I quit my job to keep
following this because it is the most interesting story in all finance. And I think it's going to be
the most hated rally of all time.
So that's where we're at.
Yeah, the notion of being a hired,
a hired like hand of strategy
is kind of kind of funny.
All of us, as you mentioned,
we're doing this for fun
and we're just trying to share
that fun with other people.
Some people think it's not fun.
Some people think it is.
But the accusations
that I've just come out late,
they're just kind of weird to me.
Yeah, they're a bit strange.
Yeah, the timing seems odd as well.
but I think a lot of it is because the work we've put in has gotten eyes on us.
We did True North World and we've now been validated, right?
And with that validation, I think people are drawing some very, very false correlations with that.
And also, I think there are a lot of people that are looking for clout
and they're just trying to latch on to what the community has been doing in a negative way.
Yeah. And I saw this coming, this same, the same exact thing happened with GameStop.
There was a bunch of confusion and the market was completely discombobulated. You had one person that
was that everybody in the entire community in the retail community was following, right?
Everybody had their eyes on Roy and Kitty and his daily updates and his posts. And we're like,
oh my God, he's still there. He's up 250 million. And everybody was just following this one guy,
which is a huge stress and press, a ton of pressure on one single person. So the idea being
here. This is a sustainable movement with an equity, with adopting digital capital into the
future. And we all have different backgrounds, different skill sets to provide perspective on
what this can be and how this can potentially advance into the future. So the goal being,
we are a team and all of that outside FUD, there's going to be attacks on us. There will be future
attacks on us regardless. And our goal is to just stay the course, stay at the front and be on top
of everything that's happening in the industry. We want to be on top of leveraging the market,
Bitcoin treasury companies, MSTR, evolution of securitization, how the securities are moving,
who's buying the securities, what does the market evolution look like, all of those things.
And that's the point. That's why we're here. So a little bit of extra time to spend on that,
but that's the background. And so that quells some of those concerns. I think we will have
sponsors at some point in the future. Maybe we'll put something, a marquee sponsor down in the right
hand corner because we are building a business. And I think there's a lot of opportunity to
capitalize on here. So go ahead, Tim. Real quick on the positive side, there are additional people
I've seen pop up over the last couple of days, maybe a week, but really over the last couple of
days that are doing great analysis on strategy. And that's awesome. Like it's going to take all
of us in the community. And I mean, it's just awesome. I mean, anyone can put on an orange tie
and, you know, get a microphone or not and record something from their basement. And I mean,
it's pretty cool. Right. And if it's something that's interesting, like gladiator, like gladiator,
Well, or, right.
But I mean, you know, Ziller retweeted, you know, someone that did some really interesting analysis.
Right.
So make your voice heard, whether it's a long post like Ben Workman or it's a video, you know, put yourself out there and really encourage people to do that.
I think it's awesome.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it was Adam Livingston who's been putting out incredible content.
Yeah.
He was just doing long form posts.
I think he got a microphone and a video camera.
He's like, all right, I'm going to do it live.
So maybe we'll get him out here on the pod one of these days.
and and we'll continue to bring people in uh the goal is to again we're moving this thing forward
we're staying in front and there's definitely room for for p every we are all true north i saw
somebody posted that we are all true north cool all right let's jump into the leverage update
because i think that is important and i will share my screen again boom here we go wait let's go with
this one there we go okay so leverage update and we do this weekly and i think it's helpful to be on
top of this so this is mstr financial leverage so as of 514 which is today bitcoin held on balance
sheet so they've got 568 000 bitcoin held on balance sheet bitcoin price of 103 000 assets
held about 58.5 billion debt of 8.2 preferred stock of 1.7 so net capital held on balance
she is $48 billion. $48 billion of clear capital. That would be around the 200th largest company in
the world, right behind Ross Dress for Less if you were to just put the capital next to all of
these other companies in the market. Just to put that in perspective.
Next to clothing.
Next to clothing. Yeah. Cheap clothing. And the liability asset, so the leverage ratio is about
14%. This is near an all time low for strategy. So if you're looking at the balance sheet, this is
their financial strength is stronger than it's ever been. So you're looking at a 14% leverage ratio,
debt coverage multiple of 7.1. So they have seven times the amount of assets than they do the debt
on the balance sheet. The Bitcoin price needed for the assets to be less than the liabilities
around $14,457. And that's before there's any issue. It has to be at that price for an extended
period of time before there's even any issues. I can say for certain, if the price of Bitcoin is
down at $14,000, I'm selling literally everything in my house. I'm selling my Pelotons, my weights,
I'm selling everything to buy as much Bitcoin as humanly possible. So I think many of us would be
doing the same. I also have this column here. This is a pro forma basis. So about $3.2 billion of the
current convertible debt is in the money. So what that means is the convertible debt is trading as
equity. So it can be converted at a future point in time, which means that debt would effectively
be wiped off of the balance sheet. So it would no longer exist. The reason that works is because
the convertible bond traders are shorting the stock upfront. They short about 70% of the stock
and there are being out the stock through the entirety of the holding. And so there's a high
likelihood that if the debt does convert into equity, all of that debt would just cancel out
the short interest that they're holding against the stock. And there would be effectively like
a net neutral impact on the stock. So the pro forma leverage ratio, about $5 billion of debt,
$1.7 billion of preferred stock. You're looking at a leverage ratio of about 8.6% and a debt
coverage of 11.7. So again, all time lows here. The MSTR is stronger than it's ever been. Got a
ton of Bitcoin held on balance sheet. And if you look forward to a future point in time, I just put
projection in here. If strategy is holding 600,000 Bitcoin unbalanced, let's say the Bitcoin price is
140,000. If they raised another, what is this? $7 billion of debt from today, and the Bitcoin
price goes to 140,000, you're looking at still around an 18% leverage ratio, which is below
the 20 to 30% target that they have for managing their portfolio moving forward.
Anybody else have anything to add here?
Number go up.
Yeah.
So there's been a lot of focus here in this recent time period about raising capital,
raising debt.
And I want to hit on this real quick before we switch and go into other topics or talk
about True North World.
The convertible debt.
And if you compare, there's multiple types of debt that MSTR can raise.
They can raise convertible debt, and then they can also raise debt via these preferred instruments, strike and strife.
And they brought up the word in the last earnings call of torque.
And I think the word torque is incredibly useful here in comparing these two.
If you look at the convertible debt when the convertible debt is issued the convertible debt holders short the stock immediately They short about 70 of the stock immediately So that dilution impact of the debt is hit right away There about 70 more shares that are in the market trading in the market
immediately. So it's nearly just as impactful as the ATM. It's about 30% less impactful than the
ATM. Now, when you compare that to strike or strife, when MSTR raises capital from strike
or strife via the ATM or they've got the ATM on strike, but no ATM on strife yet.
When they raise capital through the preferred instruments, there is no immediate dilution on
the stock. There is a potential dilution on the horizon if somebody decides to exercise shares or
what's it called? Convert shares at a future point in time. But I think there's very little
incentive to convert shares to a future point in time. So when you think about what type of debt
you want to raise here, it is much more valuable for strategy to go on a crusade and a campaign
to raise as much preferred stock as humanly possible because it's significantly more accretive
than any of the convertible bond instruments on the balance sheet. That's because there's no
dilution right away. There is a debt covenant effectively, right? You've got to pay
the dividend in perpetuity, but there's no dilution component. So that's why there's torque,
significant torque, because it's a more accretive leverage to put on your balance sheet.
And that market is significantly larger, right? I think the convertible bond market is about $3
trillion. The fixed income market itself is about $300 trillion. And I think the real estate market
is another $300 trillion. That's like $600 trillion of capital that may be interested
in those types of instruments. However, you need to build that market and building that market takes
time. Yeah, it does. And I think the cool thing about the strike and the strife is the direct
bet strategies making on the compounding annual growth rate of Bitcoin into the future. It's a
very simple idea, right? If you're selling a preferred share that you're paying out at 10%
annualized coupon, the bet you're making by porting that into Bitcoin, which they are
effectively collateralizing it with their Bitcoin, is that Bitcoin will outpace that significantly.
So I think that's kind of the very base level idea of why it's accretive. Why is it accretive?
Because they're taking on liabilities, which they pay out at 10% annually, and they're putting an
asset on their balance sheet that they can then use as collateral and issue more securities against
that's compounding at, in theory, 30% annually.
So that's the Bitcoin torque.
And then obviously the earnings call
was a great kind of masterclass
in how that actually looks when you graph it forward.
Yep.
Hey, Jeff.
And the thing about...
Oh, sorry.
Real quick, Jeff.
When you say building a market,
and I've been guilty of this myself,
it's almost like, well, okay,
the shelf is there, the ticker's there.
Why isn't this going faster?
Would you be willing to share some of your personal experience with building a market?
I thought what you shared privately was so cool and helpful for me.
Yeah, absolutely. So building a market, in my past, I've built a market before in a risk market.
So my prior life, I was a reinsurance broker. So I sold tranches of risk to insurance companies
and reinsurance companies across the globe. I was primarily focused on wildfire business. So
an incredibly volatile peril that is really hard to manage if you've got an insurance portfolio.
And there was this unique opportunity in the market where these utility companies were being
deemed liable for these very large wildfire events, particularly in California.
There, they had lines that would fall over and they were deemed negligent for maintaining the
lines. And so then they had to pay out, you know, anywhere from four to $8 billion of loss from
these from these large wildfire events. Now, when those when those utility companies went back to
the market to get their liability coverage, their liability insurance for the next year,
the insurance industry, the insurance industry said, we're not going to cover wildfire at all,
just point blank period. So there was there was a problem. And the problem was these huge utility
companies needed coverage for this potential liability. So I went to the reinsurance market,
and I created new tranches of risk that never existed before in the market. And I modeled them
to get a probabilistic distribution of loss. And I sold little tranches of risk.
Now, in order to do that, I had to fly to London. I flew to Bermuda. I flew to New York. I set up
30 to 50 meetings and I got one person to sign up on the deal. I thought it was an incredibly
lucrative deal. I outlined all the risk. I had a whole presentation and I got one
person to sign up on the deal and a year went by next year comes up and i got four people to sign
up on the deal i did the same thing did a huge marketing push flew to london flew to bermuda
flew to new york and then because i had somebody on the prior deal and that word kind of spread a
little bit they got a little bit more comfortable with the methodology i kept pounding the table
and i was the only person in the market that was running that was running this wildfire liability
market for the entire utility industry in all of the United States. It was me. I was the only person.
And that market takes time as a risk market that I had to explain what the risk is. I had to walk
through my methodology. I had to convince somebody to not do Florida hurricane risk and participate
on wildfire liability risk in New Mexico. And it was a campaign. It was a crusade that I had to go
on in order to do that and clear the market. So very similar type thing is happening here, right?
You've got these new instruments that have never existed with Bitcoin backed exposure.
And they're really unique. And the world hasn't seen anything like these before. And they have to
talk, they have to talk to people, they have to communicate to people just like we're doing,
right? Like, Dan and I got on the horn on Friday and walked through some of these instruments,
because they're unique and they're hitting people at different times. Everybody has this education
lag. And I think retail here is getting education much faster than institutions and they have the
ability to consume this information. But this campaign is happening on an institutional level
as well. And there's fixed income money managers, probably the most boring people on the planet,
by the way, are just now probably getting these documents across the table and starting to look
at them and say, oh, Bitcoin, crumpled it up, throw it over their shoulder. And then they start
to dig a little further, start to dig a little further. And so it will take time for this market
to build. And I'm not concerned about that at all because the performance will result in success
and people will follow the success in my opinion. Yeah. Look at the price of Dragon Strike this
week. I mean, the reason the price is going up is because someone's buying them. So I think-
Somebody's buying them. That's my expert now. And they look super lucrative, right?
You compare them to other things in the market, and I've done this in past episodes, but you compare it to the PG&E preferred stock that's paying 650 basis points, and you're looking at Strike paying 850 basis points.
So you get 200 basis points more for likely significantly less risk, and you get a free call option on MicroStrategy.
It's a no-brainer.
It's like, oh my God, this instrument looks so good.
But let's think back to the Financial Times video today.
People don't even get Bitcoin, right?
They don't even grasp Bitcoin.
They're long teeth, long teeth.
Yeah, they're long teeth, long, scarce teeth.
So how can you grasp a preferred stock instrument if you don't even get Bitcoin?
You don't even understand collateralization.
You don't understand financial strength.
You don't know how to read a balance sheet.
And all of the education that we've built so far across these 26 episodes,
everybody that's been here hanging out with us, thank you. But this is education and time that
the rest of the market very clearly isn't consuming. And they're significantly far behind.
And there's a huge moat between what some of the retail investors know compared to these
institutions at the moment. It's interesting. Yeah. Anyone with a large pool of capital is
looking, how can I get 10% with no volatility? And I just watched the Jordy Visser,
episode today. And it was like, since the peak or since 2021, the S&P has returned 6% annually.
And there's a lot of people who have kind of a bearish on stocks outlook because of falling
multiples on large cap tech stocks. And so I think what's kind of interesting is like, well,
this is kind of the answer to a lot of people's problems. If you just want your 10%
low volatility return that in theory you were getting in the S&P, well, strife is your friend,
right and similarly if you want a bitcoin correlated return with a nine percent dividend
yield as of right now or ten percent almost dividend yield as of right now strike is your
is your um or your your preferred stock of choice and then couple that with the different hedging
strategies you can use to hedge out your risk um uh your counterparty mstr risk i mean it's a pretty
cool product and i don't see why more people aren't like like tumbling over each other to
to figure out what these are we see a 10 coupon it's like okay what is that thing can i buy it
yeah yeah 10 coupon is huge right i mean if you had a if you had a million dollar if you had a
million dollars let's i don't know i'm not 70 but if you had a million dollars and you're 70
you could just park it in strife and get paid a hundred and ten thousand dollars a year for the
rest of your life good to go you're good you're good to go perpetual forever uh as long as you
think that strategy can manage the capital on their balance sheet appropriately. They could
manage their leverage ratio. They continue to have interest in Bitcoin and Bitcoin just does Bitcoin
just Bitcoins. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't see why you wouldn't. I think strike is such a cool addition
to a modern portfolio. Like if you're a fund manager or whatever else, and you're looking
for that kind of fixed income like payout plus the upside of a Bitcoin related thing. It's like
like you always said, Jeff, it's like, oh, these convertible notes are a great addition to a
insurance company's balance sheet, right? They can issue premium against them, whatever.
Strike is a similar thing on like a traditional asset manager portfolio. It's like, oh, it's this
random thing over here that's spitting off a 9% coupon. Don't worry about it. And then you've got
all that hidden upside. And so the client's like, oh, this is great. I'm getting the payout
and I'm getting the upside. And they don't have to know what it is. Not that they would do that,
but that's my thing. If you're like an independent money manager and you didn't have to fit within
the confines of like, I don't know, Merrill or any of these other wealth management companies,
these instruments are a no brainer to add to clients. Not financial advice, but it seems like
a no brainer to add to a portfolio to outperform even in small amounts, right? Like you don't even
need, you don't need to YOLO these instruments. Like you can add them in small amounts and they
will significantly increase the return and reduce the risk of your entire portfolio. I get that
that efficient frontier conversation is just a no brainer when you think of these new instruments.
And what did Saylor say on stage? It was something along the lines of,
we designed Strike to have 80 to 90% of the upside of Bitcoin because of the way they designed the
MSTR equity to have about 1.5 to 2x the performance of Bitcoin. So if that's the case, then adding
strike to a portfolio as opposed to Bitcoin is a really, really interesting concept because you get
the dampened volatility as a result of the coupon payment, which is in itself advantageous to the
client. So, I mean, I think that's a pretty cool sell. If I was a money manager, I would be hustling
that. With reduced downside. Right? Exactly. Because of the coupon payment. It's a floor.
It's a price floor because if the coupon gets too high, then capital flows in because the coupon is so high.
Yeah. And you're looking at the guys who's going to be buying it.
Yeah, exactly. So fascinating instrument. And somebody brought this up here too.
The other really interesting takeaway from strategy, and we'll jump into strategy world
and true north world after this. But one of the interesting takeaways was they designed those
products using AI. And so let's think about this for a second. The reason these instruments are a
bit difficult to grasp is one, they've never existed before, but two, they literally leveraged
artificial intelligence and they iterated and iterated and iterated and went out to market.
So they had an original product for Strike. They went out to market. The market said,
I can't even model this. This is too confusing. AI just went too unique. And then they came back,
simplified it a little bit. AI iterated, iterated, iterated, went back out to market.
And that's what we have today. We have strike. And so it's the first financial instrument that's
created using artificial intelligence, which is absolutely fascinating. And it's a hundred percent.
It just emphasizes how incredible AI is. And we're going to see this acceleration of information.
If you're not using AI, you're behind. And these guys are doing it to create instruments that
they're using and selling in the market today that haven't existed before.
So, yeah.
I also think what people need to remember or realize, depending on when they got into
the equity, is that when strategy started this in August of 2020, it wasn't where it
was now, right?
We've had a stock split and we've had a lot of volatility.
The options market wasn't where it was in the beginning as where it is now.
So if you fast forward another four years, four or five years, take a look at where strike
and strife can be i think people really underestimating just how large it can get
and if you you know coming back to what we were talking about strategy being an economy at true
north world um strife for me is an ideal bear market hold that's one of the ways i'm looking
at it i'm also looking at it as an easy way to port over some strategy gains so if we rip up to
like a hundred like a thousand dollars a share i'll consider taking some off the top but only
to roll it into strike and um there's just so many different ways you can play it and i think
people are really underestimating how large you can get and they're just focusing on why is that
large right now like i've seen all through twitter people are saying it's clear that strike and
strife aren't working need to try something different i'm just like it's been like five
seconds like just just give it a second it's gonna it's gonna scale and once it starts scaling and
they can use the atm on both more more effectively and then on the common there there's so many ways
they can play this thing they don't make it make it blow up without without dilution without
dilution because it's it's not like if somebody's if they set up a strife atm which i think is on
the horizon that's probably the next couple of weeks i would assume i mean it makes perfect
sense for them to do it i don't see why not if the interest is there and they can raise that
capital on the strife atm that's capital that's going to smash by bitcoin with zero dilution
that's why that's why we're talking about this so much that's why dan and i are fired up on
on these products.
How do you how does MNAV of how does Bitcoin per share increase really fast How do you increase MNEV and sustain MNEV increasing into the future You get capital in the door without even diluting the shareholders
at all. And you increase Bitcoin per share at a significantly faster rate just by designing this
new product and going on a campaign in the market. Yeah, no, completely. And I think a lot of people
were forced to think about the reality of strike when Josh kind of flamed out and bought
strike or whatever happened the other day. And I love you, Josh. And the point being is
it forced me to think about what is Bitcoin per share and what does Bitcoin per share
mean for preferred equities that are higher in the capital structure. And when you're forced
to think about that, you realize how many, strike is different because it's a fixed income
product and doesn't have the ability to convert and you don't get exposure to MSDR. So let's
leave that aside for a second. But Strike actually has higher Bitcoin per share than MSTR because of
its senior nature in the capital stack and its liquidation preference. And so that's something
I've been wrestling with. And it's like, okay, so Strike technically has higher Bitcoin per share
because of the way in which it's trading relative to its liquidation preference than MSTR Class A.
In theory, it's actually a more valuable product right now, plus the coupon payment.
So the fact that Strike isn't trading higher makes no sense to me because I think right now Strike is like fundamentally mispriced relative to just what people are willing to buy MSTR for.
Yeah, definitely underpriced.
And then once Strike starts trading like a synthetic MSTR, which it will at some point, once we get high enough past the conversion, the liquidation preference and conversion price, like let's say MSTR is trading at $2,000 a share, Strike will be effectively, because the coupon will be so low, will effectively be a synthetic MSTR.
but it's senior to MSTR in the capital structure and there's no incentive to convert.
So at that point, Strike will, in my opinion, I think Strike will trade at a premium to its
conversion rate to MSTR when we're far enough above. Strike is going to be like an incredibly
valuable equity. Yeah. It's interesting to think about risk profile of these things too.
and what would cause a liquidation or a bankruptcy.
And it's kind of hard to conceptualize a situation
where there is one,
just thinking about the math, right?
Like, I mean, the price of Bitcoin
has got to go down drastically,
down to 14,000 or 15,000
and stay there for an extended period of time.
And that's pretty difficult to conceptualize
without some huge, massive, earth-shattering event. I think Saylor said on the Financial
Times video, it's like aliens landing and causing a cyber blackout or a global EMP,
something where you're probably better off having whiskey and cigarettes and ammunition and guns as
your currency as opposed to anything else in those types of scenarios. It seems a bit binary to me.
like there is no risk or it's a hundred percent loss yeah everything's and everything's a hundred
percent loss and i don't think it's a hundred percent loss and that that probability i've
effectively like wiped out uh from my perspective so it's just it's so hard to conceptualize what
what that risk would be it's a zero-sum trade is what it is yeah is that it's a zero-sum trade
is what it is in my mind.
It's either going to crash and burn
or it's going to explode in the best way possible.
Right.
And the market doesn't price it like that.
The fact that you can buy it.
And again, I know we always come back to this.
It's like you can buy a strike
and hedge it deep out of money puts,
whatever, whatever.
But the point there is like the market
doesn't price the puts in a way
in which the payoff of MSTR is binary.
But we're here realizing the payoff of MSTR
is quite binary.
And that's something you could price
with the long tail, the deep out of the money call options far into the future, or you can price
in terms of the insurance on the downside, which should be priced differently if the payout is
binary. So just cool. It's cool. You can't use the black shoals of prices stuff.
You can't. You can't. Dan, it's funny you bring that up because that comment,
while it seems regular that we're talking about this and we've been talking about it for weeks,
I'm sure there are a lot of people in the comments that are confused.
Okay.
Right. You can effectively, you can buy puts if you have strike exposure, which gives you the upside. It gives you the premium or it gives you the yield. It gives you upside exposure to MSTR. And if you wanted to buy insurance on the product, if you didn't think Bitcoin was going to be around, you can buy puts down out in the tail to basically give you insurance and hedge that position and still get something like a 6% yield or something like that.
Yeah, wicked high yield.
With zero risk.
you've insured the risk out because you're buying puts so far deep out of the money exactly yeah
that's a no-brainer for like if you're a trad fi if you're one of those trad fi guys it's a no-brainer
yeah makes sense all right well let's shift gears with 37 minutes in let's talk about true north
world strategy world uh and your experiences there maybe i'll kick it over to upper left-hand corner
to tim cotsman and ladogia to give us give us your thoughts on strategy world true north world what
What you thought?
Oh, it was amazing.
As an audience, this conference within a conference, within a conference concept was very incredible.
So, True North World was right beside the merch stand, and we just bought merch, and
then we go see some True North talks.
We came out.
I met Andrew Kang, CFO, in a merch shop.
talked about CFO stuff, went back in, saw CEO Feng Li speaking there, came back out, you met some other
interesting people in the MercedTent. That was amazing. And I think this entire first conference
of True North was a huge success. Everyone there was high quality people because most conferences
out there there's a lot of like people who are just there they don't know what they're doing
but in at least in true north world everyone was no like knew what they were doing right there a
lot of them were high net worth individuals very uh there a lot of them were in the wealth management
industry for many years and they all just they just told me like i talked to so many people they um
they just retired right they retired uh using mstr and they're just here it's a social thing for them
I also met a lot of strategy staff, like employees from Europe actually that came there.
And they all approached me and they talked about how they...
They told me that in the internal training sessions, they watch TrueNorth videos.
So that's crazy.
They just like employees, investors.
strategy is a bit like the lines are blurred, right? What's the difference between customers
and employees and investors, like shareholders? Their interests are highly aligned, like most
other companies. In our case, they're all aligned. And the educational content flow through all of
them, flow between all of them. So I've never seen anything like this before. It was amazing. Good
job guys uh doing more uh looking to see you in february yeah that's right that's right
yeah i mean i don't want to repeat myself too much but i mean people traveling from far far
away to just come uh see us and and say hi was awesome obviously just the just meeting everyone
was awesome. And over the last week, the conversations that I've been having,
and the amount of interest that's growing because of the amount of Bitcoin treasury companies,
I know we'll get to that later, that is growing. It's just super cool. I mean, I feel like the best
decision that you could have made was to go to the Bitcoin for Corporations Strategy World,
true north world conference but that's in the past now so what's the next best decision go to vegas
and you can support true north world and see us in vegas all capital letters mstr true north
30 off your ticket oh yeah okay okay i'm done perfect yeah we're gonna be in vegas here in
what is that a couple weeks uh we'll all be there we don't have any specific events or anything
lined up, but I'm sure we'll throw out a happy hour or we'll do something amongst all of the
scheduling. There's just a ton of stuff going on that week, but we are planning to do an event in
Q3 or Q4 potentially that would be a intimate 200 person thing, maybe in middle America,
Colorado or Chicago or something like that. And then there will be a strategy world 2026,
which will be in February in Vegas as well. So keep that on your radar. That will be on the
horizon. I think one of the things you hit on, LaDosier, is Fong came to our true north
world and it was electric. I think Tim announced, and we have Fong Lee, and he got up on stage.
Ladies and gentlemen, please, welcome to the stage, the CEO of strategy, Fong Lee,
and people standing ovation. They're screaming and yelling and so excited.
it erupted the the crowd erupted everybody stood up and was like clapping it was incredible i think
we've got it on camera so hopefully we can see that uh on film here in the future but anyway
adrian over to you oh yeah so with uh true north worlds uh the thing for me was i was kind of taken
aback by how many people wanted to come up and talk to us and be so grateful and thankful of all
the information we've put out um that was something that i found really not only refreshing but um
rewarding in the sense that you're seeing a real tangible reaction from people with all the
information we've been putting out and strategy world itself was great i we had so many different
conversations with so many different people i had so many different conversations with so many
different people uh it was a very very electric event from you know technically from sunday night
because we had a lot of people that showed up sunday night so technically from sunday night
all the way through to thursday it was very electric and um money well spent on travel
time well spent on the effort i it was more um like thinking back to where we started this it
was far it was far more electric than i thought it would be just for us at the beginning and that
the electricity kind of carried through all the way through the event so i'm very very excited to
to see what we come up with for Q4.
And I'm very excited to see what we come up with
for February in Vegas.
If this was any indicator,
Lord knows what we will come up with now
where we can actually plan it out.
And we are just kind of,
and it's just kind of winging it
and going with the seat of our pants there.
So I'm pretty pumped for it.
Yeah, so True North, this group was created seven months ago.
We had 45 days to plan the event and we threw it together.
We got sponsors and people showed up.
And I think we had people
from about 20 different countries there,
which was pretty wild.
And one of the biggest themes and takeaways that I got was
there, everybody was just so happy to talk to other people.
They didn't feel like an outsider anymore, right?
One of the reasons I started talking on Twitter
is because I'd go to parties with my wife and she's like,
hey, Jeff, you can't talk about this stuff anymore.
We're losing friends.
And so I had to go to Twitter
and I started just saying stuff that was on my mind.
And I think a lot of people have a very similar experience.
So it was really people loved to just being able to talk to other people that spoke the same language.
And there were people were just so happy, ecstatic to be there that had been holding MSDR for a long time and just had nobody to talk to about it.
And so that that was just a really cool thing to see.
Maybe over to you, Dan.
Anything else?
Yeah, I mean, the way we were received was I'm just very grateful the way we were received.
It was an awesome event and it was because people showed up and were supportive and constructive.
And the people we meet are like really high caliber.
People look up to us like we're, you know, we know something about anything.
But, you know, I go into the audience, I go to the audience and like listen to the, you know, the business titans that listen to us.
And I learned so much from them.
So I don't know.
I just feel very fortunate to have those interactions.
And again, it's like that idea that we're all true north.
that's kind of um it's kind of corny but the the real idea is that we're all it's valid right we're
all learning from each other like i learned so much from everyone there and these relationships
are invaluable so i'm so super proud to be a part of this group awesome green
oh yeah i'm here give me a second i gotta figure out how to turn the camera on because i never do
this let me figure he's gonna do it he's gonna do it he did it grain is a real person oh oh wow
a real coke oh i mean oh okay there it is so look um i have a whole list of things to go cheers
i have a whole list of things to go through okay walk off your calendars guys
wait let's go 47 minutes um right over there's the helmet so i i have i have lots of helmets
the white one is retired because it's 10 years old and it's been replaced by the black helmet
on that side but it's it's still good to use but anyway with that said uh look there's a lot of
things that happened at this event that was truly awesome that everybody's saying there's a big
difference between going in person and I met LaDosia for the first time and it's awesome and
I've seen his posts the guy's great and when you talk to somebody and you sit there it's really
it's really it's really heartwarming to talk to people so I recommend going in person to go
someplace and hear the information firsthand if you go to an event that Sailor's at and you're
persistent there's a good chance you can meet him take a picture with him and ask him a question
That is definitely possible to do that. So I highly recommend going to an event. We're going to be in Las Vegas. Myself, Jeff, Ben and Richard Byworth. We're going to be on stage on Friday. I forgot the exact time I posted. Thursday. Thursday, 2 p.m. We'll be on the main stage talking about strategy. I'll get there early on Monday. We'll be there at the Venetian. We'd be happy to talk to everybody and we're doing as much as we can to connect with our followers.
So the conference within the conference within the conference within the conference.
We had over 120 people sitting in the audience and listening to us for four hours straight.
It was great. It was really awesome. One of the announcements that I alluded to but I did not post
on X is that we're also we're filming a documentary. A feature-length documentary that will take
footage all the way through from starting there and going all the way through February of next year and then we will release it for the film festivals and for every awards imaginable And so that something that we working on right now If you would like to be in the documentary you have to come to an event and talk to us You have to sign a release also But with that
the documentary will be awesome. That's something that I mentioned, but I didn't post about.
Podcasts and the stage presentations. There's over 25 podcasts. We're having those professionally
edited and getting those out. LogScale Investments, I'm the CEO of that company. It's a VC company,
proprietary trading. And with that, I'm a sponsor of MSTR True North. So you will see the logo.
LogScale Investments is live. It's only one page. With that, I will be a sponsor of this show going
forward. So if we get paid, we're getting paid by the sponsors that were there at that event.
somebody's got to pay for the editing and the film crews to do this this is this is not free um
let's see um i'll also be at bitcoin prog people are going to be in prog i've never been to prog so
if you're there i'll get there tim i believe you'll be in prog correct
the dozier you're going to be in you you got to love those uh emojis the dozier you're going to
be in prog i'll be in vegas prog haven't planned yet okay that's at the end of june you could still
getting you can still get there so uh okay with that uh oh and then tomorrow the swan event uh
ben are you going to be there tomorrow i'm not no i'm staying back in michigan i got a pretty
packed calendar here this week so i'm not making it out to california this time okay bummer with
that but i will stop by there and that's in palo alto california the swan event ben could post a
link to that if there's still availability to go there i'll be there for maybe maybe a half an hour
or 45 minutes i've got to bolt out but look uh um now you can see my real face i hope it's i hope
you know i can meet you people in person
great reveal yeah great reveal fantastic yeah that the there's going to be a future film documentary
and uh i think there's a high likelihood that uh you know we saw this happen with dumb money
and uh the game stopped craze but that documentary came out like 18 months later right and this is
this would be interesting timing if we're able to get something out kind of near uh the end of
the year or early next year uh it'd be pretty cool to have almost real time uh knowing knowing what
was going on yeah i want to say yeah so on the documentary it's behind the scenes it's it's what
we're talking to each other um there is some swearing in it it's a documentary but i swear a
a lot. So there's that. And you can see behind this. And I just want to say thank you to Jeff
and to Ben and for the whole MSDR True North team, getting this set up in a very short period of time,
getting strategy to trust us to put on a professional event in a very short period of
time. I think one of the takeaways besides people coming to me to meet with us, it's like
you scheduled, you did this all in whatever, 45 days?
Yeah, we did.
And I just want to say something.
One of the guys came up to me at the party.
He's like, I was able to order a $40 scotch.
And I'm like, I hope you didn't order.
Shout out to the guy from Finland who broke our bar tab.
Yeah, yeah.
So we blew out the bar tab.
But that's all good.
I want everybody to have a good time and have fun.
And why do we have to charge for the event?
To pay the bar tab.
By the way, the food was pretty good. We had sliders and Wagyu beef jerky. And anyway, we want these events to be fun. If you can come out and go to them, I think you'll get a completely different view of what's going on if you come in person.
And I don't know how else I could say that. But once you come in person and I said this, it'll get posted. When you go to the event there, you're now you're in a you're now normal because everybody wants to talk about this nonstop.
Yeah, you're normal.
Right.
The roughest part of the whole conference is when you know that you're going to the airport
and you're like, oh.
You're like flying back.
Nobody knows who you are anymore.
And you're like, I'm back in the real world.
Do you know who I am?
And they're like, and people look at me like, why is the eight sideways on your hat?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, great feedback, Grain.
I mean, shout out to strategy.
I mean, they took a risk.
and putting us on stage, right?
They put us on stage, they gave us a day, they gave us space.
And I think we rose to the challenge and understood the assignment, right?
This is a very professional event.
We all had very professional backgrounds and, you know, we were able to bring a lot of energy.
One thing that was very clear as well is that the folks that were there for Bitcoin were worthy
electricity for the entire event.
There was a software side of things, but they were they weren't as fired up and jacked as everybody
else was walking in the hallway.
So a lot of orange ties, a lot of orange swag that it, they definitely looked like a hundred billion dollar company.
The marketing was incredible.
They had the merch station was huge.
They had all of the, all of the stuff plastered all over the walls and windows.
It was like, oh wow, this is a, they went over and above for this.
This, it kind of felt like a, an early, you know, Apple like event or something like that.
That was just like totally electric.
They went over the top.
It was probably the air Jordan, what are they called?
The air Jordans?
Dunks.
The dunks.
Right.
then sailor was signing them and then people are like they got it in a box like oh i can't wear it
because sailor signed it i'm like okay yeah they don't have a size 12 i was kind of pissed about
that but besides besides those sneakers were awesome say sailor was laughing he's like i'm
signing shoes now it was so surreal to see this that that um you know signing the shoes and it
was just really really crazy and i don't know it was just just an amazing bet yeah over to you ben
Yeah, I mean, this whole event was kind of mind-blowing for me.
No matter how long we do this, no matter how many people you meet,
it's still weird when you're in person at these events
and there's people coming up to you wanting to talk to you.
And so many people were, they just kept saying things like,
I can't believe you guys will just stop and talk to us.
And just hearing that really weirds me out
because we are just truly normal guys that are just really interested in the stock.
And it's so cool to meet all the people that come in.
I mean, this is the one place where we're incredibly normal is when we're at these types of events.
And, you know, for other people that come in, so my wife came down to this one.
And a lot of you guys will know that my wife's the one that told me to, you know, have fun with my internet friends.
and it blew her mind completely what was going on there. I mean, the energy around there,
all the people talking about Bitcoin and micro strategy and coming up to her and talking about
how they love the group and they love the show we put on and people talking about our conference.
And before I left, she was like, well, are you going to have to talk at your conference and
give a presentation? I'm like, yeah, we got like five hours we got to fill. This is a real event.
So it was really awesome to see strategy bring us in the way they did and then support us throughout the entire event.
And, you know, it was a risk for them because, you know, and I even said it on stage, I had to ask whose idea was it to take the group that talks at midnight on Wednesday every week and put them on your main stage and give them a room for a conference and, you know, help them get everything set up and going.
It was just incredible.
So you are really seeing a transformation in the way that companies are going to interact with their retail investors.
And they're finding out that particularly for these types of conferences, those retail investors bring an entirely different kind of energy to it.
And you could see it even in just the general gathering areas where it was all the people that came in early on Monday.
And Monday for the conference, for the general conference, was kind of a slow day.
there really wasn't a whole lot going on in terms of what strategy was doing.
So a lot of the people that were there on Monday were there for our conference.
And everyone was hanging out really late in the bars,
just having a great time, talking to each other, having a blast.
I mean, I was whooped after that.
This was one of the first conferences where I started feeling my age here.
I don't know that I'm going to qualify for kid analyst for too much longer
because I was smoked, man.
But it was so awesome to meet so many people.
and you recognize the names immediately and for a lot of them you recognize the faces because
they've been interacting with us for so long that when you come out to these conferences particularly
the ones where there's less people and you can have those opportunities to interact pretty regularly
in casual settings just like at the hotel bars every single night after the conference was done
it was just such a cool event to be a part of so i'm really glad that we got to do that i'm looking
forward to whatever the other events are i mean everyone doesn't think that these things take a
lot of work thank goodness we've got an amazing behind the scenes team here that you know some of
you have seen a few times but they all went on stage and and talked to everyone so everyone got
to meet the people that are really making all this stuff happen behind the scenes because you
know it wasn't people like me making this happen for sure yeah right i mean people were people
were working hard you know grain was working his tail off trollstein was working his tail off
Colleen was working her tail off. J64 was working his tail off. I mean, everyone was working hard,
even when we got there, getting everything set up, getting the room ready for everyone to come,
working with all the merchandise that the sponsors brought to give away to the people in the audience.
It was just such a cool event to be a part of. And it blows my mind every day that we've made
the progress that we've made here and that there's so many people that want to interact and engage
about a single equity. But it's the coolest thing in the world that we get to be a part of this.
yeah yeah absolutely this is the digital transformation of investor relations and
somebody put in it yeah phone coming in coming by the bar at 1 30 a.m to take pics and chat with us
was crazy the uh oh that's drillstein and i think they were like ripping shots beforehand or something
which is so funny so we we real quick we got in sunday night and we had this impromptu
and and i just said to people look i i gotta go to sleep we're putting on an event tomorrow morning
We got to get everything up and going.
Like, really?
I'm like, yeah, I just got here and it's one o'clock in the morning and you could stay up as late as you want, but I got to go.
So I think when you come to these events, nobody wants to leave or go to sleep because you could talk.
Everybody has their own perspectives.
Everybody knows about the subject in and out.
And then they go there and there's always a fresh person to talk to.
Oh, that's such and such.
Oh, that's.
And then they tell you who they are.
and you're like, oh, you're this person on X.
And it's just really awesome to go talk to them.
And then eventually, you got to go to sleep.
But I think if you come to the event,
you'll have a much different takeaway.
Yeah, absolutely.
One other thing, go watch the content too.
I mean, the content was also fantastic from Strategy World.
One of my biggest takeaways was
Fong is incredibly impressive.
And I think incredibly underappreciated
in the entire crew. And people that I say key man risk haven't done the research on Fong. They
haven't watched him talk. They haven't watched any of his conversations. Incredibly impressive guy.
And he was previously the CFO and is now the CEO. And so if you think about running a really strong
financial company, having a CFO background is incredibly helpful. So when I think about
you know, the future of strategy. I think they're in very good hands with Fong. He's incredibly
impressive. He also had this session. It was one of his keynotes. I think it was on one of the days
of the Bitcoin for Corporation panel where he walked through some of the KPIs talking about
BTC income, BTC gain, and walked through those specific KPIs and had different slides and spent
time on them. And that presentation is literally a master's in science of finance of Bitcoin.
This is a master's level class, effectively, given in an hour by Fong at a Bitcoin for
corporations for education of how this industry is evolving and how it's going to move into the
future. So go watch it. It's literally free and it's on the internet and it's available.
and that is where this industry is evolving and going towards.
So if you want to stay ahead of the curve
and you want to feel a little bit more comfortable about key man risk,
go check that out.
I don't think Fong's flying as far under the radar as people think anymore.
I mean, when he came in and got up on stage,
he got kind of a sailor level standing ovation, right?
The retail community that's really engaged with this equity
and a lot of this credit probably goes to Tim when they did that interview.
you, I think that was such an eye-opening moment for everybody to figure out that this entire team
is sharp. And that's part of being at these conferences and being able to just stop and
talk to these guys in the halls, because they're very generous, giving everyone their time and
answering any questions. And you really quickly realize that everyone from the executives down
to the entire capital markets team is just absolutely incredible. And you find out that
there's a much bigger team that's steering the ship here beyond just Sailor and the AI tools,
which I thought was amazing. That was how they were creating all these products. It tells you
that if you're not already using AI in your life or for whatever your job is, that you probably
should start because that's the way that they're making all of this happen. And it really helps to
ignite that creativity. But the fact that that team was even open to doing that and pushing
through all the iterations before they even go to the lawyers to hear their objections and then,
you know, push through them was incredible. They've got such a great team and they've got
a team of really young people on the capital markets team that are doing so much of the
behind the scenes work that none of us are ever going to see all the way up to guys like Fong,
who if he was out there and he was the person out in front and Saylor wasn't part of the equation
here, people would absolutely be cheering for Fong because he's super personable. He absolutely
knows what he's talking about and when he gets up in front of a crowd and gets to run through this
stuff the guy's electric so yeah i think people did underestimate him for a little bit but i think
very quickly that's fading to the side and my hunch is you're going to start getting kind of
that one two combination of sailor and fong more often than we have in the past don't do this aren't
don't to disarm too much you're going to be teamed uh you know independent uh or a marketing arm
When do our paychecks come in, guys?
Have you guys gotten them?
I don't remember.
There's no paychecks for everyone listening.
No paychecks.
We've made zero dollars from this.
We might be negative.
I'm not sure.
But we're going to start our Bitcoin treasury maybe next week.
So over to Ladoj.
Yeah, I just want to add on top of that.
Right.
So Fong is now on the radar now.
And I think Sharish and Chaitanya, like CJ, they are also going to be there.
They are rising stars.
They're doing a lot of the things behind the scenes.
CJ actually just became a full-time employee.
He's not an intern anymore.
So he just graduated from Harvard MBA,
and he's now full-time doing strategy stuff,
doing the math and Excel, PowerPoint, all that.
And I think he's popular.
People like him and he's the young face of strategy.
So that's going to be incredibly bullish.
Tell us about your experience at the office.
Oh, I mean, I mean, oh, yeah.
So after the conference, I just went to Washington, D.C.
and visited Strategies headquarters.
It's actually in Tyson's.
That's like a few stops away from like Washington, D.C. train station.
It's in Virginia, but it's just across the river.
And so I visited the office three times, like throughout three days, just met a bunch of their employees.
They're very bullish.
A lot of their employees actually, yeah, it's very bullish.
I talk to their employees.
Employees are bullish, yeah.
They're bullish.
A lot of the employees actually speak Mandarin because they're shipped all the way from China.
They just import all the math geniuses from China, some from India.
Actually, most people I spoke to there were either Asian or Indians.
That's very interesting.
I mean, it's normal in tech, I guess.
I also met a bunch of people in a strategy hub.
So they just started a strategy hub.
And so it's just right now it's a co-working space.
But some of them are doing pretty interesting stuff,
like doing sustainable mining,
mining, meaning using mining rigs to end like sheeps and chickens, like do a bio, I don't
know how to call it, but there's some innovative stuff going on there.
More and more people are joining Strategy Hub.
And I think it will evolve into something like a startup incubator, like a Y Combinator
for Bitcoin startups.
That's incredibly bullish.
And so, and yes, and the building is huge.
so there's a lot of room for everyone.
So I think it will just become an ecosystem and more and more people will join.
And yeah, it also has some chats with the executive team.
Also did an interview with Feng Li, which is coming out soon.
So that is also very incredibly bullish.
We talked about Feng Li's personal life.
Right. So Tim is doing more professional content.
and we're we're the entertainment people so we're doing entertainment stuff so if you guys like
entertaining entertainment content that's that's us yeah and uh yeah and yeah so strategy hq
walking distance from the tyson's train station from in dc amazing place um yeah that's what i
have for now yeah we'll probably do a live true north from uh from there here soon which would be
fun you should get a true north office within the strategy hq that might be crossed go that might be
crossing the line that might not go over well the the other thing uh that people don't know is uh
ladogia runs digital sailor and uh digital sailor is going to be a part of true north here in the
near future and you should be able to interact with him i mean he won't be like on this uh on
the screen but uh he will be part of our true new true north crew and we'll help you you're not
supposed to announce that all right yeah well you know anybody that's here still they'll know but
nobody's listening it's okay it's we're like we're an hour and seven in come on okay anybody else have
anything else else to add before we shift yeah i just wanted to ask you know a quick thing so jeff
and i when we went to go talk to sailor and this was all filmed this is the difference between going
in person and what you see on, you know, when a sailor does a presentation and ask questions.
When we were standing next to him, it is known fact that I'm a car guy with the helmets,
model cars up top. I said to him, why did you pick the word torque, BTC torque? And he said,
oh, because legal would not allow the word leverage. I'm like, really? Oh yeah,
we argued over this for six whatever six weeks and he said this in a room with this is not like
a secret he said this in a room jeff you remember we're talking in front of i don't know 300 people
in the room as we're being fit we're being filmed at the time and i was like really the word leverage
he goes oh yeah the lawyers didn't like the word leverage so that's why i picked port torque and
then he said to me he goes and we have all these different financial products obviously the common
stock the preferreds the converts and each convert has a different expiration he goes those are like
gears in the transmission i'm like yes yes that's something that i understand and i didn't do that
i just go yeah michael i agree with you and so but inside i'm like yeah of course it's like
yours as one would expect as one would expect you're driving down the road you gotta pass
you hit the paddles or you downshifted a few gears and you blast pass i'm not giving any driving
advice okay i'm just saying not driving advice not driving advice don't take it but with that said
when he said that i was like awesome and you would never hear that that question would never come up
on a panel and that's that's some things that you hear when you go there and you talk to him directly
if you ask sailor a really good question you'll probably get a really good answer
if you don't ask him a good question yeah he might be prepared just know that just know the guy is
one of the probably one of the smartest guys on the planet and he's just pounding ai all day
right he's just in there like anything he's thinking about boom let's go into ai and it's
like faster faster faster and it's like okay if you think you're um yeah it's good it's uh
he's yeah his intelligence is just like up and to the right you know accelerating higher
so he said this and then we'll go to the next topic what he said was in the keynote when he
was talking about that he used ai to create the perpetu the perpetuals right strike and strife
And what he did was he hits deep research mode. He talks about this. He gets all of the relevant
SEC filings, all the relevant case law, whatever is necessary to do. And then he copies and pastes
it directly in the email, sends it to his lawyers and say, here's all the information, go work on it.
So he cuts off three months of people like, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? He's
like, no, I already asked all the questions to AI. You now need to go execute on it. And when you
you think about it, that always has to come from the top. That cannot come from a lower level person.
But if that person says, hey, I've done all this research, now your value add is you've got to be
better than AI to go figure out how to do the filings, right? So if those lawyers are smart,
they would go use AI to be like, oh crap, he sent this stuff. Let's use AI to see what to do. He
didn't talk about that part. I'm just saying that when your CEO gives you all the case law,
all the filings, telling you what he wants to roll out, and he sends and pops it into a text
message with the prompts in ai i think that changes the dynamics of how something works in
a corporate environment you skip years you skip literal years of work and it happens in like 10
minutes you know can you imagine being the lawyer and receiving an email that's it's kind of like
long post warning everybody's like reading through it they're like oh you need a tldr on the top can
Can you imagine getting that and the guy already knew all the prompts and then you have to go to a meeting with him three days later?
I don't want to be a lawyer working for him.
Well, the nice thing is, is AI removed the barrier to creativity for people, right?
It took away that fear of asking the dumb question because you can continue to prompt your way through it.
And I think that's what you're starting to see is that unlock in human creativity, because now you've got a tool where you can work through all the initial dumb questions.
and figure out what the actual constraints are and get the research done in real time.
So by the time that you have an idea baked that you want to bring and propose to somebody,
you've already gone through all of that legwork.
So you know that it's feasible by the time you get to that point.
And I think that's something that everyone needs to take away.
I've been trying to get a lot better about it because it's just such an accelerator for
any of these intellectual style endeavors, right?
It's great even for equity research.
You can prompt it all the time. If you're hearing things on streams that you don't understand,
just go ask the questions and you'll get really good information. And it just shows that strategy
is really pushing the envelope on that because they not only started using it as a part of their
business, they started creating securities out of it, which is just such a wild thing to do,
but it's so on brand for this group. So you're going to have to get to the point where you
embrace that AI. And it gives you that confidence and that comfort to really get through that
initial learning curve where you're no longer scared to discuss the idea because you think
you don't understand it as well as somebody else. By the time you're done, you might understand it
as well as anybody that's ever going to be in the room with you. So try to use it and try to get
creative with it because I think that's what's really going to push the future forward. And it's
going to be amazing. I want to make a quick point about that. I've been, Dan and I've been working
a lot in trolls time and working a lot on options so i've been running all these options scenarios
through it and i kept on saying is it uh i said i named different strategies is it this strategy is
it this strategy and i kept on saying no no no and i'm like and then i just thought oh why don't i
just ask chat gpt what is it that i'm and i write what is it that i'm doing and it writes back oh
you're doing this this this would you like an overview and detailed analysis i'm like yes and so
yeah i thought that i was right and he's a great answer yeah
the the world's moving super fast uh super super super fast okay all right we got to shift gears
we're hour 13 in let's go let's talk s p 500 because i did a couple posts on this and i'm
going to shift gears throw this on the screen here and we're going to talk about this so
uh i made a couple posts the potential s p 500 passive flows to mstr are likely to surpass the
the scale of the existing ATM in place,
which is about $20 billion remaining.
S&P 500 in scale is 10 times larger than the QQQ.
The relative inclusion ranking may result
in about four times the scale of QQQ inclusion in 2024.
So I did a little bit of math
and I wanted to show this in a dynamic format
so people can see what's going on here.
So the amount of capital that can,
maybe I'll make it a little bit bigger.
Oh, shoot.
There we go.
Okay.
So the amount of capital that's following the S&P 500 is estimated to be about $5 trillion.
That number is probably light.
Ben's going to hop off.
Ben, good to see you.
We'll catch you later.
So the amount of capital following the S&P 500 is estimated to be about $5 trillion.
That is probably a little bit light because there are funds that follow effectively what
the S&P 500 does, but they don't report it.
These are banks and nations, et cetera.
And there's about $500 billion of capital falling in QQQ.
So when strategy was added to QQQ, it is estimated that they were added about a 0.35%
allocation weight.
They were added around 50th ranking from QQQ.
that ranking of about 0.35%, that results in a $1.75 billion capital flow, passive flow for
any fund that's following QQQ. They need to buy strategy and about $1.7 billion worth.
During that time period, so from 1111 to 1216, strategy raised $17 billion of capital and they
purchased some ungodly amount of Bitcoin. It was like, damn near, I think it was nearly 200,000
Bitcoin or something like that. Huge number. So the multiple on that capital raised relative to
the capital that came in the door was around 10X. Basically, the price of the stock rose
and they were able to capture that multiple flowing through. So if you were to take that
same concept here, right? If they're getting added to the S&P 500, the S&P 500 is about 10 times
larger than QQQ and ranked about 80th out of 500 right now would result in around 0.25,
25 basis point allocation. That 25 basis point allocation would result in $12.5 billion
of passive flow that's coming in the door to follow strategy. If you were to take a same
multiple on capital, you're looking at a market cap change of around $125 billion just from that
um capital that's coming in the door now when you consider they've got 20 billion dollars of atm
left what one of the reasons that uh they've got they've got 20 billion dollars of atm left
we saw strategy was able to raise a ton of money really quickly because there was significant
front running of the qqq index and i think something similar could happen here with the
s p 500 once they announce positive earnings for the first time in i don't know four years
or five years and it's some enormous blowout figure that would instantly qualify them for
the S&P 500. It would be the first time that they're technically qualified for it because
of the change in accounting rules, FASB, fair value accounting, et cetera. In my opinion,
this is the biggest story of 2025. MSTR getting included in the S&P 500 is the biggest story of
2025. It's going to be incredibly controversial. When they do have a quarter with positive earnings,
the whole market is going to be fighting about what is a dollar of earnings worth, right? Is a
dollar of earnings worth the same dollar of earnings from Apple, right? How is Bitcoin valued
relative to these other things? And when you start taking into consideration that strategy is making,
you know, if they post a $12 billion gain, that's around $8 million gain per employee,
compared to, I think Apple's somewhere around $800,000 net income gain per employee,
something along the lines of that. So if this holds true with a 25 basis point allocation,
there's a significant amount of capital that needs to come in the door here. And I don't think that
ATM is even big enough to capitalize on all of it. And so that would result in potential
significant common stock appreciation on top of a massive potential ATM capitalization of
of the passive flows that are coming in the door.
And this is just with an allocation of 25 basis points.
As I've put down here,
you could see that's around ranked 80th.
If the market cap goes from here,
let's say 115 to about $200 billion,
you're looking at a 40 basis point allocation.
And the numbers start to get really wonky.
About $20 billion of capital that's gotta come in the door
and buy strategy stock, which could push the market cap
multiple, if you have a 10X multiple,
could push it up about $200 billion.
And obviously this gets wonkier
as you get higher up the ladder here.
So why this is important is this,
as the market cap rises, everything on this is reflexive.
I think what did Saylor say
in this Financial Times interview?
It was like a quadratic reflexive financial flywheel.
And that's what this is, right?
I'm showing it to you right now.
As the market cap rises, the relative market cap
and allocation and all of these other passive index funds
is rising exponentially.
You can see it here, right?
Like this isn't a linear curve going from 20 to 55
to 2.88 to 3.99.
This is an exponential curve.
Like as companies get larger in these indices,
because they're market cap weighted,
the relative passive funds that are allocated to that stock increase drastically So don get caught getting popcorn while the movie starts right This is a once in a lifetime event right The strategy is not
going to fall out of the S&P 500. They get added to the S&P 500 one time. I've been in this trade
since 2022 for this event, which I think may occur within the next six months. And to be very clear,
strategy actually getting included isn't the pinnacle here. It's strategy qualifying, right?
Everybody just keep, this is a huge takeaway. Everybody is front running everybody all the time.
The market largely doesn't understand strategy right now. And if there is a situation where
they have earnings that qualifies them for the S&P 500, front running will then begin.
And we've seen that with other stocks in past history. You can go back, you look at Tesla in
2020. Tesla started to gain front run in the S&P 500 as soon as they had four quarters of positive,
even three quarters of positive earnings in a row, recognizing that the fourth quarter was
likely going to be positive, which would qualify them for the index. So you could go look at Tesla
market cap. It went on just a meteoric rise from around 150 billion to 700 billion in like
six months, something like that. And that was a result of the inclusion in the S&P 500.
They were excluded the first go around, but the market knew that there was no way they can exclude
them for another quarter. So the market just kept pumping it higher. And that was that situation where
Tesla ended up hitting, I don't know, a price per share of around $4,000 split adjusted.
And it was a huge ordeal, like that all eyes were on it. And this is a record event for Tesla.
I think Tesla was included in the S&P 500 somewhere around a $300 billion market cap,
which is a record high, $300 to $600 billion market cap, which is a record high of a company
ever getting included in the S&P 500. We have a similar scenario playing out here because strategy
was already included in QQQ and passive flows that push it higher and higher. There's potential that
that they get included at a very high valuation,
which can just thrust them up further into the leaderboard.
If they're able to capitalize on that new capital
coming in the door via ATM as well,
that significantly increases the credit rating
of all of the debt instruments,
the preferred stock that they're providing,
which should bring even more capital in the door
to buy those preferred instruments
because they're gonna be significantly de-levered
as the market cap continues to rise.
Can we have a quick comment?
Go ahead.
I need to bring it up.
Yeah.
So look, everything you said, love it.
Sounds great.
One of the persons made a comment, MCS Cavs, Mrs. Cavs made a comment on coin.
So I looked up coin.
Coinbase was added to S&P 500.
The first day that they're in, it gapped up and it was up 23.97%.
Then the day after, another 2.5%.
So it's up a solid 25% in two days.
The reason why this is not financial advice, you're going to tend to hear different narratives.
And each individual investor has to make their own narratives.
What are the two narratives?
There's one narrative is buy the rumor, sell the facts.
So buy the rumor.
So Coinbase, it did not appear, if you look at the Coinbase chart, that there was a lot of front running.
The stock had rebounded and then it shot all the way up when that happened.
and it did not seem to be front run. On the flip side, you'll hear people say, well, buy the rumor,
sell the news. And what happened there is it continued to go up. So it was not front run,
and then it continues to go up. So you're going to hear these competing narratives. I can't predict
the future. This is why this is not financial advice. And so from that perspective, everyone
has to make their own decision. There's a couple of things going on in the threads. We're getting
asked lots of questions about upstarts and new companies. Strategy started their journey
August of 2020. It's coming up on a half decade, this August. It has a five-year track record.
And so why it has the liquidity, and we're going to get to the FT, the Financial Times thing,
or we're done with that. So maybe it's a good segue into that. If you've got Financial Times,
the million people reading this, and they don't understand what they're talking about,
even after they've been doing this,
he's been doing this for five years.
And Jeff and I talked on the phone about this previously.
It's like these people are in mass bewilderment.
I don't know how people can take them seriously.
And the takeaway for this is that this Coinbase did this.
And I think that's a tacit approval that crypto,
in my sense, because their Coinbase is crypto,
that that is a tacit approval that it can be in the S&P 500.
So, and Tesla's in the S&P 500 and it does hold Bitcoin.
So I don't think that there's any reason why it can't happen.
Do we know if it's going to happen?
No.
Just because it's qualifies for the S&P 500 doesn't mean it gets in because that was something
that happened.
We're talking about that all in Q1.
Just because it qualifies, oh, that means automatically gets in?
No.
One thing to keep in mind, strategy was previously in the S&P 600.
So this is one of the reasons that MNAV was actually really high in 2020, 2021.
I've done a forensic deep dive on this.
And I think the S&P 600 made up something like 6% to 10% of strategy stock in 2020, 2021, something like that.
Which is the reason why strategy didn't have the double peak, which a lot of people have been concerned about.
So there is that history.
and because strategy has been a company since 1998 or something like that. The company's been
around for a really long time. They've been in the small market cap index and assuming they can wrap
their heads around the Bitcoin component, it's a no brainer. I think, again, I've said this multiple
times. The S&P 500 needs strategy. Strategy doesn't need the S&P 500. And the reason for this
is if the market cap continues to rise because of the Bitcoin held on balance sheet, you know who's
going to be calling the committee to tell them to put strategy in the S&P 500? Larry Fink,
head of BlackRock, head of Fidelity. All of these companies that manage S&P 500 index funds
are going to be yelling at the committee, you need to add strategy to the S&P 500.
I'm missing out on billions and billions of dollars of fees because you guys can't get your
heads around this thing. And so the incentives are all aligned. And worst case scenario,
they don't get added. It doesn't matter because they're already added in QQQ and all these other
passive index funds. And as the price of Bitcoin continues to rise, the reflexivity just continues.
So it just gets, it compounds and compounds and gets higher and higher.
Yeah, I think that's a good point, Jeff, about the incentives here.
And it's easy to be kind of doom and gloom, like, oh, everyone hates Bitcoin.
Yeah, there's a certain contingent of traditional finance people that hate Bitcoin.
But the large majority of people making fees off these products have aligned themselves with Bitcoin and strategy.
I mean, Cantor, you know, it's their single largest equity holding.
So I think there is a large lobby for SPY inclusion, and hopefully we'll see that.
And someone mentioned, well, what are the dates for inclusion?
Well, right now, the soonest they could be included is September 20th.
That's the date on which they would be included if earnings are positive and wipe out the prior three quarters upon Q2 earnings.
Or no, it's a Q3, no Q2 earnings.
And then following that, I think it's the third Friday in December would be the next date for inclusion if they don't get included this time around.
Ring, ring. Hello, this is Howard Lutnick, Secretary of Commerce. You need to add strategy to the S&P 500, right?
Like there's the incentives are aligned across the board.
But again, the dates, like thanks for sharing the dates, Dan.
And honestly, nobody cares about the dates because the date is when they're qualified,
when they're qualified.
Everybody knows all information.
You got to assume everybody knows all information.
So if everybody knows all information, the front running happens when they get qualified.
And right now I think everybody that's following this closely knows that they qualify, right?
But from an accounting perspective, they actually haven't ever officially qualified.
So I think there's confusion on that front.
My bet is that the front running happens as we get closer.
It's like a function of Bitcoin being above the $97,000 threshold.
June 30th.
Yeah.
And the time getting closer.
It's like a call option, right?
As the time starts to decay, the price either moves very rapidly in the direction.
So as we get closer to that June 30th date, I think the amount of front running will either
increase or back off based on where Bitcoin's at. Bitcoin's at 120 in the next month or so.
And I think the front running will be like full steam on ahead. But if we're at 85, I think there
won't be any front running. So I think people are just going to lay on the gas and lay off the gas
very aggressively as they try to figure out whether we're going to qualify this quarter or not.
So let me make a quick point. Two things. First thing is the way that you could tell it's me and
not a simulation is if they can,
if you're talking to somebody says they're green
and they can't pull out a Bell BR1 race helmet for cars,
then it's not made, okay?
So that's the most important.
This is my authentic authenticator.
So that's the important thing, okay?
Take off the shelf.
The other thing is,
I wanna talk about investing for a second.
And this is how I would take a point-
Are you gonna shift gears?
Because I wanna talk about-
Okay.
S&P 500 will take one minute, but hit the timer.
Go ahead. You're on.
Okay. If I talk to any financial person, I say, cool, S&P 500, MAG 7 makes up 30.5% of the index.
That means the other 493 are zombie dead companies. I just say a chat GPT. If it's
up by 1% or 2%, it doesn't matter. So if the S&P 500 is totally basically run by the MAG 7,
why would I invest in the rest? Stop right there. That's it. I would say 25. And then whoever
talks first loses i would just shut up say it to an investor why would i invest anything except for
the mag seven right and they're like you need to be so wait i need to diversify that means i need
to sell the winners to buy the losers and they always look at me like well you know you know
grain you know the stock market could go down and i'm like oh jesus was that under a minute you're
under a minute you're under a minute yeah what's the next i mean i on a very similar vein is uh
passive flows, right? Like let's think about this. Why does front running happen? Front running
happens is because everybody in the market knows what's going on. If you're an active manager and
you also have a passive fund, you can go buy all the equities that you know that need to go into
the passive fund. You can front run it and you can sell those assets to your passive index.
And so in your active fund where you get paid extra basis points, you can have higher returns
so you can go boost your future returns. And on your passive fund, it just follows the S&P 500,
which everybody got front run. So everybody that's investing in the S&P 500 is getting front run by
everybody that's smarter than them in the entire market and is paying attention to all this stuff.
So I recognize this to myself in 2019. I'm like, oh my God, I'm never investing this stuff ever
again. I need to figure this thing out. And so that's the dynamic of front running and what's
happening in the market is that everybody knows that the passive money is coming in the door
and the passive money is coming in the door whether you like it or not so you can you can
always make a decision before them hey 30 seconds back in the old days during after the great
financial crisis um what happened was the bond funds were doing terrible so these were bond funds
for some reason they bought apple stock you're like what does apple stock have to do with a bond
fund. The returns were so bad on the bonds that they put Apple in it, but no fund manager would
ever get on a call with any financial reporter to say why they did this, because that's how bad it
was. And Apple came out with a product called an iPhone, and they needed it to juice the returns.
And so old people like me remember when this stuff happens, and that's how bad stuff is. So again,
the mag seven takes two seconds to fact check this if you can't use facts to talk to your
financial advisor or somebody else in a cocktail party inside of one minute then you haven't refined
your pitch that's it that's it what's the next topic financial times are we long teeth we're long
teeth teeth scarce you just you just drink fluids you don't even need teeth
oh my god you guys can all try and do a round table on yes so so first off on the on the financial
times thing i filmed i filmed that on february 13th so here we are may 14th um for that to be
released so february march march april may yeah so it's taking three months was the stock up at
that point i don't know stop february i i i was feeling like uh i'm i'm always bullish i mean
we're going higher right like i'm i'm i'm permabulled but uh i don't know i think it was
around 300 i mean come off the come off come off the november highs and yeah we're in new york yeah
around that time so but it's just crazy it took three months to to produce that right and we're
over here doing two-hour content every night and these they feel bad for us they're scared that
about us being in the right spot it's like we're doing literal analysis every single day talking
to people at the front lines of the market and they're worried about us which is uh they're so
bewildered man the traditional financial markets have no idea what's going on i think it just really
solidified and confirmed that the bull market hasn't even really started yet because
everybody's still so behind so can we go can we just go through each point go ahead if you film
something in February and then you see what happens in the market, why would you ever release
it? If they, Jeff, if they recorded that and they launched it a week later after they edited it,
I get it. But after you saw what happened in the market, especially after MSTR True North World
and Strategy World and what they reported in the last five minutes, it's like,
I will try and remain professional because I've been coached by people not to use swear words or
call people names.
But I don't know how
you can come out with that.
The clips that will be taken out of that
FT video, we will
use in the documentary as an example
of what not to do.
Yeah.
But you assumed that they were paying attention
after they recorded it with Jeff.
I think they probably recorded it then took their eyes off the ball and weren paying attention whatsoever So it was very clear with what they actually put out I mean I did an hour interview with this woman right And there I got what I mean composite like a minute and a half of clips right
And they even took everything I said out of context too, right?
Which was incredibly annoying because, you know, I'm explaining what's going on, like,
you know, slicing the risk.
simply I had like all of my thoughts that I wanted like here's the points I want to hit
and hit him him very sharp very clean and they they like pieced pieces together to make it seem
almost like I was um you know like just incredibly risky and I think there's no risk in this in this
thing in this trade at all and it was just so strange like that was what they picked like there
were so many other things that were heavier and juicier that were actually informative
but they just scrapped all of it and they did the same with sailors piece they had this woman on
they were saying like the the balance sheet is they have loads and loads of debt on their balance
sheets like you clearly haven't looked at their balance sheet that like they literally had report
like people were i don't see how you feel comfortable saying that stuff in front of a
camera if you actually have no fucking clue what's going on it was crazy they were trying to do a
soft hit piece is just how I viewed it.
And turns out to be the biggest marketing piece of the year for Bitcoiners.
Like, honestly, that's that's how it came.
That's how it came off.
And I mean, and to Graine's point, I really don't think that they were paying
attention to it after they recorded it.
And because if they were, they probably would have changed things up a little bit,
especially that point about the teeth.
I know everyone's been talking about it, but the fact that she said that and they
kept it in is unbelievably hilarious. And now she's never
gonna let it live it down. Someone's probably gonna come
out with a meme coin on Solana about it called teeth and tooth
or something. So it is just gonna be a whole situation,
especially as we start to run higher, they're gonna have to
eat their words and people gonna be clipping that up and
they're gonna be making it making them look rather foolish
in hindsight.
Yeah, a lot of people are saying, you know, never never
trust someone else's editor or trust journalists. That's the exact reason why we're making a
documentary. We want to tell the stories ourselves. And we've got a team of Bitcoiners that's filming
this documentary. And we're going to be able to tell the story the way we want to tell the story
and not rely on anybody else telling the story. Because clearly, everybody else out there who
thinks they know what's going on has got it wrong. And they're concerned about us for making 3,000%
returns. They can't even conceptualize an asset where you can actually store your energy without
decay. They don't understand technology. They don't understand. What's clear to me, what I think
is happening is there's this intelligence gap that's happening with people that haven't used
computers, don't understand AI, are not using the internet and leveraging Google. I grew up and was
born with Google. So I've Googled everything since I was a little kid. And now I'm using AI. I'm AI-ing
everything and i i there's there's just a huge knowledge gap between those that have not done
that and those that have and i feel like they're like bitcoin fits within that knowledge gap well
there's there's a knowledge gap and there's a humility gap as well she flat out said i don't
understand this but i'm gonna short it yes and she and jeff she felt bad for your portfolio i i
She was condescending.
Let's not use her name.
Look, look, that's absurd.
By the way, this will continue to, look, they'll get the S&P 500.
The stock will do another 10x.
People that bought two years ago will have a 100x.
10 times 10 is 100.
So that's where I get the two 10xs.
That's why they did the additional shares that they could then float in the future.
This was all voted on earlier this year.
I got into an argument with Francis Coppola, the British economist.
whatever a couple years ago and she blocked me she said bitcoin is not scarce because you can
divide it into 100 million satoshis she said if i have a slice of pizza i could keep on dividing
into slices to feed the whole world and i was like you can't divide a slice of one pizza to
feed the whole world you're just not getting a lot right and she and she blocked me and i'm like
You might be, I'll just say it.
You're dumb.
That's why that movie is called Dumb Money.
And you know what?
If you're a credentialed professor of economics and you don't understand Austrian economics
and monetary debasement, because I asked Grock or Chad GPT, it's not taught in any of the
Ivy League schools.
And what Tad Smith said, the brilliant Tad Smith is, I was a professor at NYU.
I'm not mocking Tad at all.
I was a professor at NYU.
Tim, you did the interview. That clip is on the internet, right? You can tell you how old I am.
I'm saying the internet, the interwebs. And it says, I was a professor of economics,
and I didn't realize if you take a look at the OECD nations, that it's about 7% monetary
debasement per year, plus 2% for inflation. So your hurdle rate is 9%. And then if your risk-free
return is 4%. 9 and 4 is 13. You're gaining no relative wealth. I didn't say this. Tad Smith,
the brilliant guy said that. And he's like, well, your relative wealth is not growing at all.
And so we have people that are being condescending to you. I don't like that. I would love to do an
inter... You know what? I would do a debate. Let me be clear. No, no. I'm going to say it right now.
the Financial Times, I will donate $10,000 to the charity of their choice if they do a live
debate with me. I want to be very clear. The Financial Times, I will donate $10,000
to any charity anywhere in the world and send it. I want to make sure that this is cut and done.
I'm pulling off the gloves. And if you're too chicken to do it, I'll just donate the $10,000
and say, oh, I donated this to charity
because you're too dumb and condescending
to have a conversation about this.
The gloves are off.
Well, hell yeah.
So that's where I stand.
I want this to be kind of.
They could go viral and wild.
And you know what?
If they don't do it and they don't respond to this,
I will make sure that this is a meme to go around.
We will meet them with the tooth meme
of the thing like this.
ooh going around right we all saw that what do they want they want to donate to a charity or
not and by the way if she's so good at investing because obviously she's the market's columnist
she came in in fifth from the bottom out of a thousand and thirty i listened to the whole video
i'll tell you what let's do two to one we'll let the internet prove to see who got it right and
And we'll go two to one to see if you put up 10 grand and I'll put up 20 grand and I'm calling you out.
I'm tired of this crap.
And by the way, Paul Krugman, Mohammed L.
Aryan, all you clowns, it's the same offer.
The helmet is off.
I got a Coke.
And you know what?
You guys go do your things.
MSTR True North to go contact those people.
Mohammed L.
Aryan gets on CNBC at Joe Krugman.
What do you think about Bitcoin?
Muhammad L. Aaron's like, what? We're making 4% on a sovereign note. And then I just cue the story
that I just said about Tad Smith. I don't know how you can listen to this, this crap, and people
aren't animated. Jeff, I said this to you before, and I'll be done in two seconds. Your professionalism
and your calmness to have these type of conversations, I don't have that skill set.
I don't. And with that, I will put my money where my mouth is. Anybody can call me anytime. You guys
know how to get in contact with me, the financial times. I think they're chicken. We had different
words because I'm Gen X. I can't say those words because they're not socially acceptable now,
but I think they're chicken. They won't do it. I'm almost done with my rant. I'll drop off.
And you know what, guys, maybe I should stick to a Diet Coke because there's no sugar in it.
because that's what you know brandon just said i want to call it yeah great he's got the gloves off
i feel great i hope you guys feel great and i i think this is good tv we're not even on tv i don't
even know what even what this restream thing is i can't figure this out we've got we've got 35 000
people here that just 35 000 people yeah that saw you uh you're doing a ten thousand dollar no i'm
I'm not even done yet with this rant.
They got to get,
so when I was at strategy world,
they're like,
what do you guys do?
I'm part of MSTR true North.
What's that?
I'm like,
oh,
we have anywhere 10 to 12,000 people,
sometimes 35,000 people on a Wednesday call.
And they go,
what do you talk about?
I'm like,
it says MSTR true North.
That's what we talk about.
Right.
We like the stuff.
And like,
and you talk about it for how long?
Like 20 minutes.
I'm like,
nah,
two hours.
and people stay on for two hours?
I'm like, yeah.
So anyway, that's where we're at.
I'll put them all in my crosshairs right there
and be like, look, I'll donate money to charity,
to ASPCA, save the dogs or cats, whatever.
LaDosia, you in for this?
I need you to meme this.
Save the dogs, save the dogs.
Tim, you're going to be the, I don't want to point.
Tim, you get to be the panelist.
I'll fly to New York, we'll do it in person.
so tim will you be the panelist to do this let's go let's go let's go let's go higher
i think uh vibes capital would support this too yeah yes
right we'll do that i don't know a guy that used to wear a helmet what are you scared of
put it out there somebody clip it up throw it at him at financial times
so financial times has 1.22 million subscribers so they felt comfortable putting that out which
is crazy we also haven't tweeted since like 2023 if you take a look at their page oh the youtube
the youtube has 1.2 million subscribers and they do well yeah but their quarter has millions as
well yeah yeah and that's why i say it's a humility gap and i don't even know if um they'll they'll
bite on it when you have someone interviewing you that says not only was did i lose money on my
trade not only do I not understand it but I'm still gonna exert caution over it that there
just shows what you're dealing with these individuals are arrogant in their stupidity
and you just kind of have to let them stay that way and when you know a burrito cost $40 and guac
costs $5 and they can't afford it they'll look back on these signs and think they should invest
that that's all that's all that's gonna that's gonna happen with it they're not gonna change
their minds and if they do change their minds they're not going to admit it not publicly this
it's just it's so um I'm so baffled that everybody's so bewildered right I I knew this was happening
but like I just it shows that it just shows so clearly how behind so many people are right these
are people that literally write articles about markets that are supposedly at the front of like
what's going on in the markets and and then proceeded at the end of it was i still don't
get this thing i've been following bitcoin for seven years i still don't get this thing
had a conversation with sailor had a conversation like an hour conversation with me and continues
to say they don't get it and it cut like purposely cuts out all the pieces where i talked about the
things that what's happening so it seems so strange it's like are they are they trying to
prevent other people from getting it too? Do they actually get it? Is this a PSYOP? You know, like,
it's like, you start to think, right? This is so crazy. Like, how do you not get it? Like,
this has got to be like somebody's, this is a PSYOP. It's got to be.
That's why I've added befuddled and smickeldorfs to the list.
It's great.
I don't even know what a smickeldorff is.
In addition to being befuddled.
Yeah.
And bewildered. Yeah. Smickeldorfs, for sure.
Look, folks, do not attribute, I think I made this term up. Maybe I didn't.
Do not attribute to a conspiracy, which is most likely due to stupidity.
And I hate using that word or incompetence.
Do not attribute a conspiracy to something that is most likely mediocre thinking.
And that's what I would say to them.
If I would not be any more successful than FT, if I followed their advice.
And that's the reason why I have multiple helmets.
I'm trying to make spit that out as I'm talking.
but so here's here's a crazy part here's a crazy stat markets financial times was bought for 1.5
billion in 2015 so they're now owned by the nikki i think and uh they're they're a private company
but i think they're probably valued at i don't know three billion or something like that just
taking you know monetary supply they're valued it it's just a crazy it's just crazy that that
company is is worth that much and this is their viewpoint on things i haven't looked at any of
their other stuff and it just like i can't look at any of their stuff anymore it was like credibility
evaporated like financial times is completely roasted on x like if anything comes up on
financial times from from here on out roasted like brand ruining anybody on twitter that was
that was alive today looking at twitter x feed will never look at financial times ever again
like no no credibility like you got you just like totally nuked a whole potential cohort of people
that could pay for your product i don't know this whole thing so you know what though but
you know somebody i love reading the comments as they're going by somebody said you know aliens
when we go to when we were at strategy was it just aliens i missed that one
I don't think I'm an alien, but maybe I am an alien. I wouldn't know. But it's not because it's aliens.
So look, if you go to Strategy World and MSTR True North there at the conference within a conference within a conference, you go there and all of a sudden, wow, we're the normal people.
Everybody is happy, smiling, because they know if you cannot retire now, you will be able to retire at some point in the future.
You'll be able to pay for your kid's college. You'll be able, you know that there's a hope that if you don't have a high paying job, but you do what's necessary, that you will be able to retire. Okay. So with that, when you go to a conference, it's different than any other event. And you'll see that also at the Bitcoin conference, that people are happy and having fun and want to talk to people.
But then when you go back to the real world, which you're surrounded by regular people that don't get anything that I just ranted about, you're like, and they're saying, oh, we can't even buy eggs because they're sold out and they're $12 a dozen.
You're like, what?
And so then you come back and you're like, well, maybe there's a better way.
And like, I don't think there is a better way.
I'm like, you're just not paying attention.
I feel bad for those people.
I truly do.
Because they just don't know.
And Saylor has 4 million followers.
And I like really You making that comment to a guy that has 4 million followers and they concede everything Accretive dilution Best performing stock in five years
They roll through all the stats.
I'm like, oh, yeah, we don't get it.
I'm like, what don't you get?
I bet you money.
She does not know a lot about Michael Saylor.
She did just enough to get through that interview.
she did not do a deep dive on sailor whatsoever which is why she's bewildered
the photo that's Michael dork like what she said made no sense the teeth example
the fact that she said that she shorted and she was wrong that she doesn't get
it she didn't know she did not understand who Michael sailor was she
did not understand what he was doing and she did not understand Bitcoin she did
understand strategy she was completely in over her head and was trying to sound smart that that's
that's how it comes off but adrian let's just assume everything you're saying is correct
i i don't know how you post a video like this three months after you record it you would have
to look and be like oh let me check to make sure i don't even know what what makes you think that
people are that self-aware have you seen what's online these days like like like people people
are not that self-aware and institutionally the financial times will not be that internally aware
they're they're interested in getting clicks and they're in their calculus at that time when jeff
recorded the the interview was the stock is down it's not doing well this is the perfect time for
us to release this video and it probably got lost in translation they didn't do any follow-up and
they released it anyway she talked about her teeth yeah like let's just let's just simplify
she talked about her teeth i know i i think i think one of one of the things that i think i'm
struggling to grasp here with with these reporters is that um they failed to recognize brilliance
right i feel like true brilliance is recognizing brilliance like when you can see it and when i
first saw sailor speak i was like oh my god that guy's that guy's brilliant i need to listen to more
And then you follow it, right? And you keep following it. And I don't know how you can
have a conversation with that guy. I'm presuming it's an hour conversation where he drops these
knowledge bombs about quadratic financial flywheel or whatever it was. I'm assuming 90% of the
conversation got cut out. And how can you not finish that conversation and not be like, whoa,
i need to i need to do a lot more here well it was it was in there she she was like surprised
yeah well she was like okay i need to take a walk around the block yeah but that was as far as it
went but then then proceeded to have the soliloquy at the end of like i don't get this thing teeth
are more scarce than big you know it's like hold on yeah you stopped there and like you you didn't
go any further brilliance may recognize brilliance but stupid is a stupid does
but that's just the way we got to think about it okay look adrian you you can now be my best friend
with that forrest gump quote okay that's from that is awesome stupid is a stupid does and and and
sometimes people are serve as as an example of what not to do the other thing that i could tell
you that people are really bewildered about and where I'm different from a lot of people. This is
not financial advice but I think that when you make life-changing money, take off 20% off the top,
pay your taxes and go live an awesome life. And I've received lots of financial advice.
If you never sell it, you never have to pay the taxes. And I'm like, well how do I get a new
helmet because the white one's 10 years. They're like, no, no, no, you don't get a new helmet.
When you die, you give all the money to your kids and then they get to buy whatever they want.
And I'm like, and so if I ever talked to a Financial Times person like, wait, you actually sold some of the stuff that, you know, Bitcoin backed treasuries and derivatives and options.
I'm like, yes, but then you have to pay taxes.
I'm like, yes, I can't get out of pay.
Yes, I have to pay taxes.
And they're like, how would you ever do that?
You're not supposed to sell it.
I'm like, well, I don't want to live in a tent as a homeless person.
So I have to spend money.
And so we became good.
When you're in this for eight years, like me, what I do is I sell 20% when it's life
changing.
So I don't, I don't think they get anything.
I don't.
Yeah.
Weird.
It's weird.
Anyway, whole thing's weird.
I'm yeah.
The vibes capital management acquired some teeth today.
so they're long teeth uh i think they're offering a preferred enamel product and uh i think it pays
eight percent apy so keep an eye out for that vibes capital management they're doing it they're
doing a big uh okay let's let's let's hit the last one my bitcoin grill i'm still gonna do that the
bitcoin grill i think i think you should and remember to pay your taxes and then get the
bitcoin grill and per grains advice i think we got a hit on bitcoin treasury companies because
there has been an explosion, right? We have seen there's a movement has begun as Tim Kotzman would
say on the Herdlerite podcast. And we are off to the races and we're going to see a lot more of
these hitting the scenes. So I want to get people's thoughts and perspectives. We've seen some really
boom and kind of bust movement in the equity market for some of these companies. A lot of
excitement. We saw this with 21. We've now seen it with Nakamoto and Asset. So yeah, just want to
to get some some thoughts um what you guys are seeing what you guys are thinking i could chime
in hit it look strategy's got almost a five-year track record it's got michael sailor they've made
all the gears in the transmissions they have all these different products they have an event we
have a conference within a conference within a conference you've got la dozier in here right
can i say where you're from yeah i'm from taiwan yeah but that's not where you actually live
oh i live in bangkok right so this guy flies all these and you're in new york right now right yeah
i'm i'm with him so i'm in new york are you wait how do we know it's you and not an alien
an ai agent he might be an alien but it's really he's really here yeah i'm sure it's really right
so we we have people that fly in from 20 different countries and by the way i did not know there was
a flight from Reykjavik directly to Orlando and I'm like, hey, why does that exist? And a really
smart person says to me, really, really, Grain, you're that dumb? And I'm like, what? Why is there
a direct flight from Reykjavik to Orlando? I don't get it. You ever think of Disney World? I'm like,
oh, people in Iceland want to go to Disney World. I didn't know that. I mean, I should know that,
but I don't know that. I mean, that's not my area of expertise, flights around the world.
wait what was i talking about btc treasury companies are we gonna bring it back right
we're gonna bring it back i might be a little bit on the spectrum but i don't think i am i
think i'm completely normal that's what somebody on the spectrum would say
it's the sugar in the coke we're all on the spectrum okay look if i want to deploy money
i want to see a proven track record over time of and especially the company that builds the
metrics and halves the metrics and calculates these things. It's a proven depth in the executive
team that's done it before, that understands software, that uses AI, all the Michael Saylor
qualities, all the Fong Li, all the executive staff getting things done with the SEC. Oh, by the
way, they petitioned FASB to change the accounting rules because none of the accountants would ever
do that because the accountants are mediocre. And if somebody says, oh, you're being harsh on
accountants, well, why didn't you change the fair value accounting if you're so brilliant? No,
you're not. You're mediocre. So my point about this is that if somebody is capable of having a
company that changes the way you look at everything, I think that there's a premium for that just on
that stock because of that great. And every other company wants to emulate it. I think the fast
followers are great. I think that there are great companies that the ones have a longer track record,
Those are more investable. The other ones are more speculative. So anyway, with that said,
if you just look at, I want the other ones to be successful, but they don't have a proven track
record if they've been doing it for three weeks. Yeah, 100%. What I think has happened here is
that there's, maybe I'll go this way, basically strategies coming into the market and they've
plowed their way into the market, right? And they've set the stage and they're very transparent
in what they're doing. They're looking to get $3 trillion of the fixed income market into Bitcoin.
They're securitizing Bitcoin. And that's what they're doing. They're incredibly transparent.
They're not going to go play around in the sandbox somewhere else and go waste some time.
They're not going to go waste time or human energy to go do anything else. They're focused.
They're laser focused on what they're doing. And in order to bring that much capital into the market,
you have to be that trustworthy source that is laser focused in the market and doing that,
doing that thing. And that's the only thing that you do. Now that provides significant headroom
and capacity for all of these other Bitcoin treasury companies to come to the scene,
to go tap fringe pools of capital and use a slightly different strategy in accumulating
Bitcoin. So you've got all these companies that are going to go a slightly different route. Maybe
Maybe they've got a cash flowing business in the healthcare realm and they've got cash
coming in the door and they just capitalize that and throw it into Bitcoin.
And maybe they start, you know, maybe tapping insurance pools or, you know, reinsurance
pools or there's different areas of capital that can come in the door and securitize Bitcoin
in a different way.
So I think there's capacity for those.
That being said, there's significantly different risk return profile on those on those equities
than strategy, somebody that's been doing it for five years and has a proven track record.
MetaPlanet, different risk return metric as well.
I mean, somebody I was asking here about MetaPlanet and
moving strike warrants.
That's a that's a phenomenon that happens in the Japanese market.
It's different than the US market.
So there are what we've seen and what we saw at Strategy World as well.
There is going to be a MSTR in every single international jurisdiction
in the world. And I think we saw 10 different countries represented that are running businesses
in each one of those different jurisdictions to run the strategy playbook in those different
jurisdictions. So those people that live in those different places have access to Bitcoin exposure
because they don't have access to buy Bitcoin or they can't buy the ETF or anything like that. So
so they can buy an equity in their local jurisdiction.
So there's huge,
there's going to be just a different risk return profile.
There will be losers in this market as well.
I think there are going to be companies
that kind of get buried under their MNAV
and have liquidations at some point in the future.
I used to think that there wasn't going to be
a bear market in the future.
And my perspective on that has significantly changed
understanding how some of the businesses
are structured and thinking about what that may look like in the future. So there are people there,
there are going to be companies that take more risk, right? Strategy is the grade A investment
grade over collateralized, you know, 500 pound gorilla. And then there are other companies that
may take different risk profiles in order to stack stats as fast as possible.
May I add one thing on top of that?
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, so about strategy, right? So there's one thing that strategy has that all these other companies don't have.
Strategy is orange peeling their own employees.
Some of them are watching this live stream right now. I saw some employees in the chat, actually.
So yeah, so, you know, 1700 employees, strategy flies them from all the way from China, from
India, from Poland, all the way to headquarters to get trained.
They're building a community.
They're building a Bitcoin community inside their company.
This is something that no one else can do and no one else is doing right now.
So I think this is also highly bullish and unique and hard to replicate.
Just my opinions here.
Yeah.
It is hard to replicate, but if you have a cash flowing business, I think this is where the critical component.
If you have a cash flowing business and a diversified cash flow, those companies should exist into perpetuity because they should manage their business.
I think one of the critical components here is risk management.
If you're running a balance sheet company, very similar to an insurance company again,
if you're running a balance sheet company, you need to manage your risk. What is your risk? Your
risk is volatility risk. It's debt and covenant risk. It's duration risk. It's market risk,
correlation risk. And it's just a completely different risk profile than a traditional
company may be used to. So there's so many things you could be doing on that front. Monte Carlo
simulations, running downside situations, having an understanding of the legal dynamics of what you
can do and what you can't do in certain markets. Like for example, Bitcoin's tradable 24, 7, 365,
but you can't, if you wanted to buy back shares or stock, it's not, you can't do that 24, 7, 365.
There are rules and regulations around it and they're pretty strict. So there's this concept.
Yeah. So, you know, risk management is just incredibly important for any of these companies running this and keeping an eye on that.
And I think that's something that True North will be able to help do here in the future is keep an eye on leverage in the market.
Right. In past cycles, leverage has occurred on Bitcoin exchanges, like on crypto exchanges.
Now leverage is occurring in the equity markets.
And that's something we can keep an eye on and track as we as we move into into the future.
anybody else we're almost yeah two hours yeah go ahead so look there are these really fancy terms
that we use in silicon valley and and so i'm going to start off with them there's four of them when
you do a tech company you start off with guinea pigging somebody's got to be the test case then
you go to dog fooding you use your own product to see if it actually works then you migrate to first
mover advantage. And then after that, you have the 800 pound gorilla. And what happens in each phase,
you have the detractors and the people that don't know what they're talking about that prevent the
brilliance from happening. And so what happens is you can't bypass these steps. So now what's
happened is in each country, you will have a company that's trying to do it, that guinea pigs
it to be a fast follower. They guinea pig it, it works. Then they have to make sure, oh, we need to
do more of it and more of it to see if it works over time.
And then they have first mover advantage.
Anybody that comes in second place, if they do it right,
they lose to the 800 pound gorilla.
This is known in V, this is nothing new in Silicon Valley.
And if I tell this to the brilliant people,
they're like, well, how do you know that's gonna happen?
Well, even when it happens
and you talk to the 800 pound gorilla,
They're still in bewilderment.
And I look at them.
It's like, have you ever gone to Silicon Valley?
Do you know what a VC does?
And I know that I sound I'm on a rant, but after a while, it's like you're mediocre.
Yeah, I mean, some of these equities will move faster than strategy.
Absolutely.
Like they've got a different BTC yield they're acquiring at a different pace.
I mean, MetaPlanet, we've seen it right.
MetaPlanet is moving as a rocket.
But if it's moving one way faster, it also moves the other way faster.
Just something to keep in mind.
It's got a different liquidity profile.
If you needed to turn around and get money out, it might be more difficult in those type of equities.
So you got to think about the risk return profile of a smaller company is higher, right?
Higher risk, higher reward.
And I think it's going to be the same for many of these.
So a lot of due diligence is necessary.
And a lot of people probably just take flyers on some of these things.
and there's a lot of opportunity to continue to fill the pockets of education and research
on all of these other equities. We're in the golden age of Bitcoin treasury companies.
This is like year one. Imagine what this looks like 10 years from now.
It's going to be, I don't know, 25,000, maybe not 25,000, but 1,000 Bitcoin treasury companies
that people are going to have to keep an eye on. Everybody's going to be talking,
what's the next one, right? What's the next one? Strategy is going to be a $10 trillion company.
And we're going to be talking about what the next Bitcoin treasury company is.
So anyway, we're at two hours and 10 minutes. We should probably wrap it. Let's go around the
board. Final thoughts. Adrian, we'll start with you. Yeah. So I'll just give some quick thoughts
on the treasury companies. I think that people that are talking about it being a bubble are being
a little bit premature. I think that what we're seeing is a new trend. And for some people,
this trend is going to be a trade. So there's going to be winners and losers. Like you said,
that's the law of averages. It's just going to happen. And the way these companies are going to
handle things, there's going to be more leverage and less leverage than others. But I do think
this is going to be an emergent trend. And it's not a bubble as much as it's a change in a paradigm
that we're going to see really scale up. So while there will be winners and losers,
I don't want people to think about finding the next micro strategy.
They have to find a differentiator besides what can be the next micro strategy.
So don't just go throwing your money into things and keep your eye on the ball.
Bitcoin is the ball and don't take your eye off the ball is what I would say.
Somebody asked first mag seven to adopt Bitcoin strategy.
And I think it's strategy.
Over to Tim and Ladozier in New York.
Go ahead.
I'm just so happy to be here. Thanks for having me here, guys.
And we'll see you in Vegas.
Yeah, you guys are doing amazing work. I love this.
Yeah, thanks for the support.
Thanks LaDozier Thank you LaDozier in the house I think in in the future you gonna see lots of new things but i outlined three of them over the last couple of days i think you gonna
see what i like to call a bitcoin treasury strategist at every bitcoin treasury company
it's basically just someone to do investor relations community engagement but in my mind i
feel like a strategist at every company can also be the next group of leaders i mean we're so early
we're so nascent with all of this that like at a certain point it's just you're gonna need the next
level the next group of leaders and i think that can be the strategist the bitcoin treasury
strategist then above that maybe you have like a director of bitcoin uh strategy right like a
dylan leclair and then above that right you have an executive like a fong lee like a sailor that's
just beating the table pounding the table on bitcoin and that's you know at least the start
of like your bitcoin treasury team so yeah um i was i was just totally blown away uh with one of
my posts when i'm like hey who would be open to working for a bitcoin treasury company and there's
like over a hundred comments of people like me me me and my one takeaway from that is when i click
on people's profiles and like we're all just people on a journey the thing that came to my
mind first was i started looking to see if they had any videos because that's like the the the
the best way to get to grasp like who is this person so you know i would just encourage someone
whether it's long form like Ben Workman or whether it's a video to just get involved.
And it really, this reminds me of the early days of the shale revolution, right?
My background's in oil and gas.
And I went and lived in an Airbnb in West Texas for six weeks to set up an office.
And so many people, I mean, I'm from a very small town in Pennsylvania.
So many people are like, well, there's no opportunity in my town.
Well, go to where the opportunity is.
It's like the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything in regard to Bitcoin treasury companies is that you have like 42 days.
42.
You have 42 days to make this happen.
Like make it to Vegas, make it to Prague, or reach out and, you know.
Make it to New York.
make it to new york whatever whatever you need to do but like the answer is like hitchhike if you
need to to where the opportunity is and it was in west texas now it's in cyberspace so i think you
know there's just so much opportunity for so many people and uh super exciting mstr over shale
definitely yeah and your your x profile is your resume these days and like the content that you
provide and that you create is that that's your that's your resume.
You don need a you don need a traditional resume anymore but you totally right All of these companies that are adopting a Bitcoin treasure strategy are going to need a conduit to the market
And just like Dylan Leclerc is, right?
Dylan Leclerc is a conduit to the market.
He's communicating within the market.
The people love him.
He's going on podcasts.
He's showing up at MIT and Bitcoin investor things.
Right. And yeah, that's what all of those companies are going to need.
Yeah. Over to Dan.
Yeah, I think there's an interesting distinction with all these Bitcoin treasury companies popping up is like the most companies hold US Treasuries on our balance sheet, but most companies aren't banks.
And so I think moving forward, there's going to be a lot of companies who adopt a Bitcoin treasury strategy to sweep their cash flows into Bitcoin.
cash flows into bitcoin that would be hugely successful and it's going to uh the best and
the best analysts of those companies with those are those who can analyze the actual operating
businesses successfully and then you've also got these financial providers these financial
institutions that are creating derivative products on top of bitcoin like strategy
and i still believe that's a winner take most business a lot of people are going to be copycats
and try to try to do that but who's going to buy the preferred shares of a company with less
collateral? Who's going to buy the convertible note that's not over collateralized? Who's going
to buy the options on the less liquid stock? This is that and the next thing with the stock they
can't trust. So I think strategy is very much so like a bank. I think Bitcoin treasury companies,
there's going to be a lot of them. Some will be successful in offering financial products.
Many won't, but the strong companies sweeping their cash flows into Bitcoin,
I think is a trend that's here to stay. And then strategy is its own beast.
great points all really great points i think you're right i i might disagree with on the
preferred stock because it's all going to have different like the market's going to determine
what the risk is but that'll be exciting that'll be exciting to see you i i look forward to doing
uh overviews of all those preferred stocks with you dan okay over over to you grain yeah
look it's very liberating for me not to wear the helmet so i appreciate not wearing it
There's some reasons. When the podcast come out, it'll explain why I wore the helmet and what went on.
Some of the people ask how I meet these influential people, or now I'll be on the stage in next week or two weeks in Las Vegas or in Prague.
Once you put yourself out there, get a blue checkmark, say things that maybe only appeal to a very small percentage of the market.
The very successful people will be attracted to you based upon your confidence.
Brian Tracy has this great video.
I didn't want to post it, but Tim posted it, and then I retweeted it.
So my takeaway with this is I have the ability now, okay, and I will show my face.
If they want to know my name, sure.
You guys will find my name in two minutes.
And with that said, I will debate anybody at any given time, and the better their credentials are,
the more likely I post more money to donate to a charity if they do it And I don think I have any takers I think I have none of them that will take that I want to be very clear about this If they do that great
But they better come with their A game.
And if they want to bring three against one or four against one, I'm fine.
If I get to bring my team with me, they will never take the deal.
So the takeaway for this is my face is revealed.
I will fly anywhere in the world.
I will have Tim be the moderator, right?
And I'll bring my crew if they bring their crew.
And we will all go there.
I will pick a stadium to do this if necessary.
And the gauntlet is thrown down.
That is it.
Are they willing to accept it?
And if they're not, then they're mediocre.
And I would not waste any of my time on that.
We'll put it on Polymark.
Yeah, put it on Polymark.
You know, we're going to bet.
Right.
Congrain out debate.
Whichever Nobel Prize winning laureate in economics, pick them.
By the way.
Sponsored by Coke.
Let's just run through it.
Financial Times, anybody at the Forbes Clowns, Wall Street Journal, Muhammad L. Arian, Paul Krugman, Francis Coppola, whatever person you want to pick.
Nicholas Tlaib, you know, Black Swan.
i'm like sure but i you know whatever else you want to put me on the joe rogan show i'll do that
you want joe rogan to interview me with somebody else i'll do it we got to get sailor on joe rogan
before you get it sorry okay guys make it happen me make it happen we're good you gotta meme it
you just gotta meme it to reality yeah yeah and by the way sailor said that he looks so much better
in ai than he does in my life you got to appreciate yeah love it awesome thanks thanks grain yeah we'll
get you on a debate stage i hope somebody takes you up on that plus the charity that would be nice
um okay my final comments are we've got a bunch of exciting things on the horizon and you know
there are a lot of shiny new uh things to get distracted by in the market but like the next
six months are why I entered this trade two years ago. And this is one of the primary things I've
been waiting for and sitting in this stock for an entire, for a very long time. I think this is a,
this is a once in a lifetime moment of strategy, potentially getting SMP inclusion and the front
running of what that trade might be. And I think there's a lot of excitement for the next couple
of quarters, especially you've got all these companies out now that are buying Bitcoin
progressively just getting stronger stronger and growing faster and faster so the flywheel
has started it's getting faster it's like this wildfire has been ignited and it's spreading
really quickly it's like a virus so really excited for the future i think we're going higher there's
so many so many things to be happy about and excited for so that's all i've got thank you
everybody for the time episode 26 i'm