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Thank you.

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here we go all right episode

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We are back.

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The crew is back.

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We are back from a week off.

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Actually, a week off.

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We were a week on.

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We were at the Bitwise event.

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And we are cooking with gas now.

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Let me get this off the screen.

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We are broadcasting only from the MSDR True North channel.

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We are trying to focus all of the chat into one location.

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So hopefully, everybody is now on the same page, on the same chat platform, and we can get it cooking.

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All right.

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We've got a fun one today.

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we're going to try to keep it to an hour. We've got a few things that we're working on. Obviously,

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we've got MSTR True North World coming up on Monday next week, which is going to be super

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exciting, a ton of fun, a part of the strategy world event. There's going to be a lot of excitement,

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putting out some new content that we've never really talked about before,

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and releasing some information that we haven't talked about before. So it's going to be a really

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good time. So welcome to MSTR True North. For those that haven't been here before,

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This is a group of people that gets together. We talk about MSTR. We talk about Bitcoin treasuries.

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We talk about Bitcoin and capital and the future frontier of digital capital.

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This is a group of people that have been at the front of this trade for an incredibly long time

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and are heavily invested in MSTR and other Bitcoin proxies.

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And the goal is to talk about the cutting edge of what's going on in the market.

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So today we're going to talk about MSTR stat update.

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we're going to get into strategy world and true north world what's going on on that front we've

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got a recap on the bitwise event last week which was a ton of fun very uh very intimate event small

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and sailor gave a kick-ass presentation which i don't think is live yet so we could talk about

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that a little bit mstr earnings is tomorrow twas the night before earnings it's going to be an

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interesting one i think there will be a lot of bewilderment a lot of things to prepare for on

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that front maybe we'll get into 21 uh the the new uh mstr playbook that is coming to the scene and

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we'll see where we go so without further ado maybe i'll kick it over to tim for our not financial

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advice ladies and gentlemen what you're about to hear tonight and this coming monday it may be

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amazing but it's not financial advice back to you jeff bingo exactly no this is financial advice but

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we love talking about this stuff and we can't help ourselves so we have to get on the microphone and

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chat about it and the next uh most important and exciting topic is that we have a uh new

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chief investment officer on the team right below me ben workman congratulations uh to ben appreciate

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it a long time coming i know they've uh they're gonna buy a ton of bitcoin that's gonna be fun to

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to watch. Yeah, yeah, it is going to be fun. And it was it was a long road. I mean, I've been working

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with Swan for about the last six months. I've been doing a lot of consulting work for them,

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getting to know the team. And, you know, eventually it just came to the point where

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we were getting fully aligned on everything we wanted to do. Right. One of the things that

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I always look for was if I was ever going back into the corporate world,

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it had to be for Bitcoin. Right. That was going to be the only reason

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that you go back into the corporate world.

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Because quite frankly, we were having a lot of fun, you know, on our own out here.

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So we are.

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I had to find something.

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No, no, no.

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I know we are.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Good call.

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But so when I was looking and when I was talking to all these other companies as well, you know,

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I needed to find one that was going to be 100% Bitcoin with a management team that's fully on board with all of our future plans here.

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because when you get into this space, you hit the gas and you go.

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And this team here, you go through the internet

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and you got a lot of things that happen over time.

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And you got to meet people, talk to them, get to know the team,

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find out that they're the right type of people

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that you want to be in business with.

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And luckily for me, that all aligned

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and I found a good landing spot here.

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So the good news is they're also highly supportive

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of what we're doing here at True North.

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So, you know, it's even in my contract.

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I'm still here.

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I'm not going anywhere.

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We're going to keep doing a bunch of killer stuff and we're going to crush it.

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So it's going to be a lot of fun.

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I'm going to really enjoy being able to, you know, be inside the Bitcoin industry more,

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learn how all those inner workings work.

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And I think it's going to be a blast.

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So I'm glad that they would have me and it just made sense and it was the perfect timing.

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So we're going to make it happen and we're going to get going.

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Awesome.

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Awesome.

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congratulations to you ben man a lot of hard work going uh i mean there's a lot of excitement on the

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horizon with these bitcoin treasury companies i mean so so much work has gone into um all of

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those components so bravo hats off to you um and good work and maybe we'll and and ben since you've

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been waking up at four o'clock in the morning every like the last couple of mornings in a row maybe

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if you want to is there anything you want to say before you drop off no no i was just going to say

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that you know when it comes to this space and particularly when it comes to everything that

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we cover i mean the pace at which these companies are showing up right now i got to imagine everyone's

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picking up on just how many leveraged bitcoin equities are showing up in the market i mean

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it seems like every time you get back on twitter there's a new announcement right now so it is just

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absolutely incredible where we're at in the cycle and it's shocking to me that bitcoin's still below

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a hundred thousand but at this pace that is not going to last logs so it's it's going to be exciting

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and we're going to have a ton of stuff to cover here for the rest of the year

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couldn't have said it better yeah absolutely right all right well uh no need to stay on uh

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we've got a big big week next week with mstr world and i know you probably have to

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prepare for your keynote so uh feel free to i do i do yeah i've been burning it at both ends here

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So this is one of those few nights where I'm not going to dwell in the darkness too long and I'm going to go get to bed.

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So there you go.

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Hope you guys have a good show.

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I'll talk to you all later.

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All right.

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Thanks, man.

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Thanks, man.

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See ya.

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All right.

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Beautiful.

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And before we get into MSDR stats, maybe we'll kick it over to Grain and do an update on True North World and, you know, what we've got on the horizon there.

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And then I'll jump into the website and we'll go through what we've got up going on that front.

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Sure.

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So can you guys, can you folks hear me?

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Yes, absolutely.

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Great.

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So MSDR True North in Orlando is going full speed ahead.

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Looking forward to meeting everybody.

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Please check the agenda.

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You do have to check in in order to get your wristband.

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So everybody needs to check in, whether you're an attendee or a VIP.

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So please come and check in.

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The room is listed.

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And then from there, we have a full set of content.

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We're going to start on time.

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It's going to go from 12 to 4.

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We've been working on that.

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you do have to have a strategy pass

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in order to go to the strategy party,

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which will be first.

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And then our party,

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that'll be from five to seven.

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And our party is from seven to nine.

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I would say that the conference,

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our conference is business casual.

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And the party,

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which will be outdoors

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at the Aquamarine pool and bar,

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it's in Florida.

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So we're probably wearing shorts, right?

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Everybody wearing shorts?

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Absolutely.

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Casual for the party in the evening.

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Definitely wearing shorts.

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Green, you've got to wear Bermuda shorts with the Bermuda socks.

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That's the only thing I'll accept from you.

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Then we can point it out.

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I'll go shopping for that this week on here.

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All right.

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Excellent.

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Thanks for the update on that, Green.

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And maybe I'll do a quick shout out to our sponsors.

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We had quite a few sponsors come through the door and help support us for our inaugural event.

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So big shout out to all the people that are helping support where we're going with MSDR True North.

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I think we've got a really bright future ahead of us. So shout out to UTXO, Swan Bitcoin, Deloitte.

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Yes, the Deloitte. Perkins Coie, Strive Asset Management, Anchor Watch, Arch Lending, NextLayer

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Capital, StrategyTracker.com, Zonaris, Medici Roasting, which is a coffee company, Tax Alchemy,

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Lightwheel Recruitment Advisors, Jackson Control, and Resil Your Health. And we've got about five

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others as well that haven't sent in their logos yet. So please send in your logos if you're

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watching this. Appreciate the support. Thanks for helping us get off the ground. And yeah,

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a lot of excitement on the horizon. And while we're on this front, we do have Medici Roasting.

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We have a partnership with Medici Roasting, and you can now get True North Blend Coffee,

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our official caffeine sponsor of MSTR True North. So you can hop in and get some freshly roasted

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coffee from Medici Roasting, which is down in Austin, Texas, which I think is quite fitting

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within the ethos of MSDR True North.

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We've got, you know, we're not sponsoring like some energy drink.

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It's, you know, high-end specialty coffee roasting.

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Hey, Jeff, I'm going to chime in real quick.

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I actually went and ordered my first coffee today.

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So I actually paid for it and did it.

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The integration that Cholstein did was great.

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It worked really super slick to actually order it and get it shipped to the house.

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So I'm looking forward to getting it.

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It was really a great integration.

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Yeah, easy stuff, easy stuff.

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We got some sponsors on the horizon, which is so fun.

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I mean, it's just a, you know, a group of guys getting together.

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This started in October and, you know, now we're on episode 25.

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We just keep it rolling and we're going to be on stage with the MSDR, the strategy team next week.

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And we've got our own programming and our own event.

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And I think this will be the first of many.

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So maybe keep an eye out for a future golf tournament, maybe, or, you know, some other fun events on the horizon.

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I think we can swing some cool things.

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Fun fact, a lot of local Scottsdale businesses are aware of what I do in True North and they

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want to buy the coffee.

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I've been getting the end to buy it today.

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So it's kind of funny that it's kind of taken off like that.

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So we'll see what happens with that.

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This is all just kind of nuts, the way it's been going.

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So I'm really excited for everything.

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Yeah.

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That's awesome.

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Yeah.

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And I mean, the programming is going to be fun too.

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I mean, we've got an hour of keynote speeches.

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We've got some presentations on options and derivatives and volatility.

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Uh, we've got an ask me anything session, and then there's also going to be a panel.

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We're effectively doing like a four hour live true north session in Orlando and you can

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hang out and meet and hang out with us afterwards, network and grab a drink at the party.

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So I think we'll have some special guests and a lot of people, uh, I think a lot of

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people will be recognizable in the audience.

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So yeah, a lot of fun.

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Cool.

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else have anything else to add on strategy world before i shift gears into some statistics the

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nerdy stuff uh maybe i'll just mention uh 10 a.m monday morning if somebody wants to arrive at 10

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a.m that's when registration starts so that's just a nice opportunity to network and not be

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worried about you know getting there at the last minute you know get there at 10 10 30 11. we're

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We're going to start at 12 sharp.

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Cool.

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Yeah.

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And we won't have like lunch or anything.

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I think we'll have, you know, there might be some light bites.

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I think there'll be coffee and some drinks and stuff.

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But I would prepare for, you know, maybe not having food for a decent amount of time.

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And the programming will start officially at noon, 12 noon.

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Yep.

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Cool.

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All right.

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Let's shift gears.

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Yeah, go ahead, Gray.

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So Bitcoin Las Vegas 2025, we have a time slot for some of us on May 29th.

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We also have a 30% off code for people that would like to go there and to also to see us in Las Vegas.

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So that's a new addition.

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We'll talk more about this in the next week or so.

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But if you wanted to go to Las Vegas for the Bitcoin conference, it's on our page already.

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We'll be presenting on May 29th.

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We'll put on the actual time slot.

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Tim, you're speaking.

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Jeff is speaking also in separate panels.

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So if you would like to meet us and you can't come to Orlando, I recommend coming to Vegas.

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Vegas will be a bit crazy.

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Yeah, I think that's a much bigger event.

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I would anticipate probably 40,000 people.

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I don't know, 20 to 40,000 people, which is a big delta.

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But it's just going to be a lot of people compared to Strategy World, I think is about maybe 250.

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And I know our event's got about 150 people.

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So it's just going to be a completely different vibe.

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But exciting nonetheless, there's going to be all of the Bitcoin companies there, all

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of the Bitcoin influencers, the people on X that everybody follows, they're all going

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to be there.

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I believe the code, Grain, is it MSTRTRTRUENORTH, just all caps?

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Is that it?

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Yes, that's it.

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And Cholstein just did the post in the chat so you can see it right there.

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30% off and we look forward to seeing everybody in Las Vegas.

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Awesome.

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Excellent.

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All right.

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I think that's enough for housekeeping.

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shall we get to nerdy stuff yeah let's go cool all right uh okay so we've been showing this

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every single week for the majority of the time here this is a leverage ratio update so this is

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mstr's financial leverage over time uh so this is april 30th 2025 which is today so mstr holds 553

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555 bitcoin uh the price when i did this analysis was 94 682 for bitcoin price so mstr is holding

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$52.4 billion of Bitcoin, $8.2 billion of debt, $1.6 billion of preferred stock. So the net capital

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held on balance sheet is $42.5 billion. I think this would be somewhere around the 250th largest

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company if we just took the net capital that they held on balance sheet. That would be around the

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250th largest company in the US. Total liability asset, so leverage ratio is 18.9%. And the Bitcoin

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price needed for the assets to be less than the liabilities is 14,857. So low leverage, right?

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Continues to be lower leverage. And some interesting statistics over here on the right,

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this column AS here. So the percent change to year end 2024. So since the year ended 2024,

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the Bitcoin held on balance sheet has increased 24%. So we've gone from 446,000 to 553,000.

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So we've increased or MSDR has increased their Bitcoin held by over a hundred that over 110,000 Bitcoin and the assets have increased 26%.

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So we've gone from 41.7 billion to 52.4 billion of assets held on balance sheet while the debt has only increased 9%.

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So you can see that there's efficiency here, right?

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The assets are increasing while the debt is increasing at a slower pace So so Jack yeah Can I chime in on that point Yeah absolutely Yeah So so what interesting for this for me looking at the chart here you can see on January 1st of 2024 189 Bitcoin

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And then you have as of now, and then one year later,

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more than doubled to 446,000 and now it's 553,000.

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What I'm looking at as an investor is in this cycle that's happening,

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When the price runs up, if we look at the price multiple of the 50-day moving average,

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and we know that it was 2.37 in the first part of 2024,

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and then now in Q4, it only went to 2.15 times the 50-day moving average.

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What I'm looking for is to see if diminishing returns set in.

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If that price goes above 2.5 or three times the 50-day moving average,

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what happens is because there's more Bitcoin on the balance sheet and more Bitcoin per share,

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It has more of the volatile asset. So in theory, it should drive the price higher because there's more Bitcoin. But if that multiple goes lower and the 50-day moving average right now is 300, then two times that only gets to a price of 600. And I had already posted about this earlier today.

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So if it goes to three times the 50-day moving average, it goes up a little bit.

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It goes a little bit above $900 for that price.

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And the question I get from people is, what date is that?

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I don't know what the date is.

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We'll have to see what happens.

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But for anybody that buys options, they have to pick an expiration date.

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So that's what I'm looking at is what's the multiple of the 50-day moving average.

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But that's indicative of what Jeff did in this chart right here is that, in theory,

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it should go higher because there's more Bitcoin on the balance sheet.

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I think you make a good point, Grant. And it's something that's really interesting. Like, had you told us on the 1st of January 2024, that Bitcoin would have more than doubled in a year, you would have said no way, right? At that point in our investing history in MSTR, I was very, very new, so I can't speak to it that well.

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But you would have already thought, oh, like diminishing BTC yield and acquisition is setting in.

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They won't reach 300K Bitcoins for another couple of years.

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That was what I was telling myself at that time.

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Now, looking back, that seems complete nonsense.

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They've been able to scale their Bitcoin acquisition in a way that we hadn't thought possible, which will have a delayed impact on the Bitcoin price.

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And we'll see that moving forward.

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Now, looking forward, I have a mental block that says strategy won't get to more than a million Bitcoin. For some reason, I catch myself saying that in my head. That seems ridiculous. But let's look back a year at 189, you know, K bitcoins, you wouldn't have believed they would have gotten to 500,000 in Amir's year time.

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So I think that same sort of unit bias, you could call it, applies here. And we really need to look

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at the activities they're doing and the demand in the bond market for strategy preferreds and

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strategy equity. And as long as that demand's there, the one thing you can't bet on is some

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sort of cap to the number of Bitcoin they own. If something's going to give, and that's the Bitcoin

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price or the demand for their products. Right now, Strike is only ramping up its ATM. I mean,

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sailors slamming the atm right now and the price of the equity is going up so there's demand it's

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going to be crazy to see what happens here with bitcoin around yeah just to oh go ahead sorry yeah

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quick thing just just to put in some context january 1st 2024 the popular narrative going around

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was that the the the etfs were going to make micro strategy strategy now obsolete obsolete

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And the market actually, for a brief time, it went under one MNAV, right?

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So it traded at a discount because of this narrative.

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So I think you're exactly right that time and time again throughout this entire trade,

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people's expectations of what is going to happen in the future have just been absolutely crushed.

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It's defined all expectations.

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Yeah.

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Dan, to your point, I think unit bias is a good term, but I think perhaps maybe scale bias is more appropriate.

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Yeah.

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Because looking back on it, you're right.

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We wouldn't have thought that they would have hit over a half million Bitcoin by now, right?

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Because it just seems kind of ridiculous.

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But the reason why I'm using scale bias is because kind of like to my point about I think Saylor's trying to scale this thing until it becomes systemically important.

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what he what he wants to do is he wants to get so much bitcoin on the balance sheet that when

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when something gives like you just said either the demand for their product or the price of bitcoin

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i personally think it's going to be the price of bitcoin before it's the demand in their products

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they have so much bitcoin on their balance sheet that they now i don't want to say overnight but

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they in the span of 18 to 24 months could become a major player on the stock market in a way that

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we can't even conceive of now i'm not just talking about like open interest and things like that right

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i'm talking about when they cross a trillion market cap that's going to with people's minds

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yeah yeah for sure from august 2020 being up being what was it jeff 600 million in cash

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or 600 million or and a billion market cap yeah yeah about yeah to a trillion that's a thousand x

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when when that when that moment happens it's really going to with people's minds and i think that

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But at that point, it only becomes bigger.

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Because when NVIDIA hit a billion market cap, when Tesla touched a trillion market cap,

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when Meta and all these companies started touching a trillion market cap,

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people thought that they were just going to slam down.

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But in reality, they just got bigger.

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So strategy is only going to get bigger.

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And you have this passive flow, the architecture of the market.

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This has been part of my thesis from the very beginning.

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You have this passive flow that just continues to push it higher and higher.

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And I think that was shown really well today when you look at Microsoft, right?

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Microsoft had earnings today and they beat earnings by 7%.

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And the stock went up $252 billion in market cap.

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That's two and a half strategies on an earnings beat by 7%.

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And that's just like this nominal bias.

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like once these companies get you know large enough where they're they're kind of stuck at

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the top because they have these huge moats which you know strategy is building around itself right

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now um it just it stays up there because of the way that the the equity market is designed

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and strategies mode is completely unique and no one's going to catch them as we've discussed

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but it's not as if they have a mode based on you know in the case of nvidia they've got the gpu

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moat they've got the the you know first movers advantage when it comes to a lot of their ai

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development tesla has a lead with a lot of different things microsoft has leave other things

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strategies moat is a little bit different because it's going to be the base layer for finance or a

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new financial system and that's not something you can easily quantify right there's so many different

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products that can exist on top of that that putting a number on it i think is premature

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and we're really only going to see the impact of this. I personally think we're going to have

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certain inflection points. We already had Bitcoin over 100K. I think when Bitcoin goes to 250,

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500K, then eventually a million one day, it's going to be a really disruptive event in terms

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of what the impact strategy is going to have in the market. Because if we just project forward,

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I mean, I said they're going to have like 600 or 650, whatever I said, they can be at 800K

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in the next two years at this pace. They can be at 800K in the next three years at this pace.

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it's it's wild to think about when you when you put that in perspective and then you put it in

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perspective what bitcoin could be at what their market cap can be at and just how much interest

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there is going to be in the stock this this is only the beginning right now i agree and i think

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it it serves to illustrate an interesting point and to what ben said at the beginning of the stream

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there's all these companies announcing leverage bitcoin equity strategies right and you everyone

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watching the show me mason grange f tim adrian we're gonna have to make the decision do you sell

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strategy and do you buy the other other bitcoin treasury company do you add to your stack by the

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other bitcoin treasury company do you buy the other bitcoin treasury company instead of buying

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more strategy what do you do how do you navigate this market and so people are going to have to

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answer this for themselves like do i want to bet on a less trustworthy company with more potential

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of btc yield in the near term and hope that that goes well they execute properly or will i bet on

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strategy because they have a trap proven aggressive bitcoin acquisition strategy and maybe you know

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you're being again scale biased by buying these smaller caps so everyone's gonna have to decide

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that for themselves and i think it's gonna be like the hardest question we all as investors are gonna

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have to ask ourselves as more of this stuff comes out you know you know it's hilarious if you would

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have if you would have told anyone a year ago that strategy like was the conservative bet

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like that narrative would just be like people would laugh at you right and now now we're sitting

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here talking well strategy is the conservative bet right like it's the conservative but uh but i

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mean your your point outlines a very and we'll get into it later we'll talk about like this risk

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return framework but i think you nailed it right like every one of these companies is going to

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operate under a different framework in order to accumulate future Bitcoin. And it may have

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different risk associated with it, different leverage ratios, different ways of achieving

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capital, whether doing acquisitions or doing things differently. And everybody's going to have to

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try to figure out and wrap your head around, how do I put this risk return framework into

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work for my entire portfolio? And Jeff, we talked about this the other day.

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And it's this idea that, you know, Bitcoin's a permissionless decentralized network.

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It doesn't require trust.

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Traditional finance, equities, any of this, this is all based on trust.

377
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We trust that the executive team at Strategy, we're investing in them to continue executing on this playbook, right?

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The trust is inherent.

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And so that's something Bitcoiners aren't used to, and they're going to have to start looking at when evaluating these sorts of companies.

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And some may not trust the entire system, cold storage Bitcoin, all the way, right?

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So that's a game.

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You know, one of the things that I've seen, and last week when we were all,

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and we'll talk about what happened last week at Bitwise,

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but in August of this year, Saylor will have been doing this now for five years.

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And so when you have a new company, 21, that comes out,

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all the other Bitcoin treasury companies, I hope that they are very, very successful.

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But what you're betting on is that this is the catch.

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Is Saylor's track record in a five-year head start in 553,000 Bitcoins, right?

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That's his head start in his track record.

390
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:16,730
A new company comes in, whatever, 30,000 Bitcoins, right?

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They have to more than almost 20x what they have, right, in order to get there.

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And think about it.

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If strategy slows down, which I don't think they are, the more they begin to buy more Bitcoins and the price goes up, it becomes harder for them to acquire more coins.

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That's the problem is that the competitors, as the price goes up, it makes it more difficult for them to acquire more.

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And you're betting against do the competitors have a greater percentage change in their spot price versus strategy.

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but strategy has got a five-year lead and a five-year relationship with all the investors

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that they go to for the converts. So I think that's the comparison right there. And if you

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have large positions and you like to trade like I do, then from that perspective, I need the

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liquidity from a bigger player. The smaller ones are interesting and I hope they're successful.

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But for me, I'm more inclined to continuing with the larger players, even though I may have some

401
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small positions in the smaller ones. Get Adrian in there. Adrian, you've been holding it. Go for it.

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Yeah. I think what's the most likely outcome is that this is going to be a decision around the

403
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new portfolio, the new 60-40, right? Instead of us thinking in terms of what is the best bet,

404
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:41,190
we could be thinking in terms of for leverage Bitcoin equities, we would have a portfolio

405
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allocation and maybe strategy is just our largest allocation and then we have a little bit of similar

406
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a little bit of gme a little bit of metal planet whatever and this is not me endorsing anything

407
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this is just me saying that that that's kind of what could happen this is not financial advice

408
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yeah this is not financial advice i see the i see this being the the basis for a new understanding of

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portfolio management you're going to have the leverage bitcoin equities you're going to have

410
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the bitcoin plays and people are going to have an entire portfolio dedicated just to that just

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many just like bitcoiners have their bitcoin cold storage i can see people kind of partitioning or

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having that kind of compartmentalization of their understanding of what equity should be and leverage

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bitcoin equities would exist in their own in their own universe in their own category as this thing

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scales which is why i um what grain has been saying what dan's gonna say what you've been saying

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when this becomes systemically important the moat that strategy has is not going to be

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overcome. Even if they stopped today and didn't buy Bitcoin for another five, 10 years, I would

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be shocked if anyone caught them besides like a Mag 7 company. And that would take a Mag 7 company

418
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going like balls deep in it, right? And just saying, fuck everything else. We're only going

419
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to go with a Bitcoin strategy right now. We're going to try to beat strategy with regards to

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the amount of Bitcoin they have in a balance sheet. I just don't see that happening. So their lead

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right now, in my mind, gives them the biggest moat. It gives them almost, I don't want to say

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an insurmountable mode, but kind of. And I think that we will be assessing the other plays as part

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of a larger leveraged Bitcoin equity portfolio. I want to add something. So from an institutional

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standpoint, strategy is the biggest, has the most liquidity, but it's also, and it's going back to

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what Green said, it's the most trustworthy. That's the moat that it has right now is the switching

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costs right it has a five-year head start a five-year reputation of doing what it said it's

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going to do we are going to buy bitcoin and increase bitcoin for share right and we had some

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we had some conversations with sailor at the conference and it was very apparent that he wants

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to be a trustworthy partner to everyone in the ecosystem around strategy all the derivatives if

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if you're buying the convertible debt if you're buying the the preferreds all of it he wants he

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wants you to know that he can be trusted and from from an investing standpoint and i think like the

432
00:31:15,510 --> 00:31:23,830
best example of this recently is gme right imagine if you just yolo'd your entire strategy bag into gme

433
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:32,390
maybe they're going to buy bitcoin right but if you did like initially off of the uh off of the

434
00:31:32,390 --> 00:31:37,110
the rip off the announcement well you'd be standing here you'd be like where's the bitcoin

435
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:43,590
where's the bitcoin whereas with sailor if they're doing convertible debt next day you know that

436
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:45,990
that they're buying the Bitcoin and it's added to the balance sheet.

437
00:31:46,770 --> 00:32:02,300
And that the trust that can just be fabricated overnight Yeah If you a trillion if you want to issue a trillion dollars of debt right We throw around big numbers all the time but really sit back and think about a trillion

438
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:03,300
dollars, right?

439
00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:06,800
A trillion dollars is a thousand billion, or a thousand billions, right?

440
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,800
Jeff, have you ever seen the visual of a trillion dollars?

441
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:10,800
Oh yeah.

442
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,800
It's just like, if you just keep scrolling on the thing.

443
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:15,800
Yeah.

444
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,020
A trillion dollars is just an absolute shitload of capital, right?

445
00:32:20,020 --> 00:32:24,740
want to issue a trillion dollars and and you actually think you can do it you have to be the

446
00:32:24,740 --> 00:32:30,500
most trustworthy party in the entire market um people have to trust you more than they're trusting

447
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:36,020
you know other counterparties like the us government right like you have to be as trustworthy

448
00:32:36,020 --> 00:32:43,780
as the existing sources for the least risky uh debt on the planet like that and and you know maybe

449
00:32:43,780 --> 00:32:48,740
maybe it's time to you know work our way into what we saw at the bitwise event because i think this is

450
00:32:48,740 --> 00:32:53,020
is getting us directionally there.

451
00:32:53,020 --> 00:32:54,140
That was a good segue.

452
00:32:54,140 --> 00:32:55,300
Really good segue.

453
00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:56,140
Yeah.

454
00:32:56,140 --> 00:32:57,460
Maybe Dan, we'll kick it over to you

455
00:32:57,460 --> 00:33:01,240
and just any background or insight on the Bitwise event

456
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,080
and maybe we'll just pass it around real quick

457
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,240
and just kind of jump into it.

458
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,440
Yeah, I'll give my 30 seconds here.

459
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,760
I think the thing that hit everyone was sailor speech

460
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,820
was fantastic the entire way through.

461
00:33:11,820 --> 00:33:13,340
And then you have these two slides at the end

462
00:33:13,340 --> 00:33:17,360
that talked about the credit worthiness of strategy

463
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,580
and how over collateralized all of their preferreds and convertible debt are.

464
00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:25,080
And he gave certain multiple figures.

465
00:33:25,220 --> 00:33:29,820
It's like, oh, so it ranged from the preferreds, the strife was over collateralized by 44,

466
00:33:30,260 --> 00:33:33,760
at the 44 times the outstanding, and then it ranged all the way to like, you know,

467
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:37,760
10x the convertible debt is collateralized by their Bitcoin stack,

468
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,700
and then based on their, you know, their position in the capital structure.

469
00:33:41,940 --> 00:33:43,900
So those aren't the exact numbers.

470
00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:54,840
But the point being is he had a really good framework to explain to big institutional players how they should be valuing the debt and how safe it is.

471
00:33:54,840 --> 00:34:14,500
And the point he brought up was that the debt itself and the preferred stock is trading like a distressed emerging markets bond and preferred shares, which are essentially a perpetual bond, just because of how high the yield is compared to the yield of a risk-free U.S. Treasury.

472
00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:20,820
So again, the yield's so high on strategies, convertible debt and preferred stock. So preferred

473
00:34:20,820 --> 00:34:25,480
stock being the bonds, convertible debt's different, that it's trading like distressed,

474
00:34:25,740 --> 00:34:30,540
high risk emerging markets debt. And that's really important, I think, to, well, if you're

475
00:34:30,540 --> 00:34:36,140
a fixed income investor, there's massive opportunity there if you recognize how credit worthy strategy

476
00:34:36,140 --> 00:34:42,460
is based on a Bitcoin framework. Okay. So I'm going to repeat this very simply.

477
00:34:42,460 --> 00:34:49,080
strike and strife are incredibly undervalued if you think that strategy is not risky,

478
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,860
or if you have an understanding of their leverage ratio and how they manage their business.

479
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,540
And I put together just a quick and dirty on this, and I tried to make it as simple as possible.

480
00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:04,660
So I pulled the risk-free rate, right? So this is the 10-year treasury as of today was 4.19%.

481
00:35:06,220 --> 00:35:10,620
Strife, the perpetual strife, which is basically micro strategy debt,

482
00:35:10,620 --> 00:35:17,980
has a yield of 10.91% today. The spread on the risk-free rate is 672 basis points. And I know

483
00:35:17,980 --> 00:35:22,220
Saylor did this a different way. So this is just a basic framework here. So the spread on that,

484
00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:29,100
so the asset, you could say the excess risk over and above the risk-free rate is 672 basis points.

485
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,080
Now you look at what else is in the market, right? So you've got Boeing preferred stock is paying a

486
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:40,600
yield of 4.76. So it's got a 57 basis point spread. AT&T is at 6%. So you've got 181 basis

487
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,320
points. And you've got PG&E. And this is the one that really slapped me over the head was PG&E.

488
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:54,440
Because so PG&E pays a 6.86% yield. So 267 basis point spread. All right. For those that don't

489
00:35:54,440 --> 00:36:00,600
know, PG&E provides electricity for two thirds of California. Okay, absolutely enormous utility

490
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:08,040
provider. They in 2018, they were deemed liable for the Paradise Wildfire event, which was a 12

491
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:15,640
billion loss on the entire industry. And I think PG&E paid claims of roughly... PG&E was deemed

492
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,520
liable for the event. So they had faulty wires, faulty infrastructure. I think they paid $12

493
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:28,280
billion or no, they paid around $4 billion of loss in that event out to insurance companies that paid

494
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:35,080
out all of these claims. So PG&E has about a $36 billion market cap, and they've got just an

495
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:40,600
enormous risk profile, right? Like they were deemed liable for this event in California.

496
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:45,240
The way the law is written in California, like inverse condemnation, basically utility companies

497
00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:53,080
are liable for damn near everything. So when you compare just the general risk profile here to

498
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:58,920
a company that's got digital capital managing a leverage ratio with a 20% leverage ratio

499
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:07,640
compared to PG&E in California, which is incredibly risky. They can't even get reinsurance on their

500
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,700
portfolio because they are so risky. There's not a single reinsurance market that's out there

501
00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:18,200
that will provide reinsurance capital for them. And so it's relied on the California state

502
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,680
government in order to create this backstop that sits behind PG&E in a case of a wildfire event.

503
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,500
So you think about the risk framework here.

504
00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:33,580
And when I compare the two, just PG&E to Strife, I look at Strife as incredibly undervalued.

505
00:37:33,580 --> 00:37:38,380
So you're getting just the relative marginal risk that you're getting for the product relative

506
00:37:38,380 --> 00:37:40,720
to these alternative products that are in the market.

507
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:42,960
You're just so wildly underpriced.

508
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,100
Basically, it yields way too high.

509
00:37:46,100 --> 00:37:50,280
And I think Saylor was, he's just like trying to pound the table, like tell all these people

510
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:56,860
at these rating agencies, hey, this isn't that risky. And I think they're really struggling to

511
00:37:56,860 --> 00:38:04,120
comprehend the risk profile of these types of products. So a lot of evolution happening in

512
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:09,280
this space, and it'll be really interesting to follow. Jeff, can I offer an idea for some people?

513
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,720
So I think there's a Bitcoin maxi sort of ideology that since strategy doesn't provide

514
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:21,180
proof of reserves for their Bitcoin, then you can't be sure. And so this doesn't feel as risk

515
00:38:21,180 --> 00:38:27,140
off as it may sound, which I'm not of that belief. But there was an interesting post and I forget who,

516
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:33,140
I think it was Joe Burnett. He said, if you're worried about strategy, not having the Bitcoin,

517
00:38:33,140 --> 00:38:41,640
what you can do is you can buy the Strife preferred stock and then buy a one year put option

518
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:50,120
at like $50 a share for class A, it costs nothing, nothing. So in the case that strategy doesn't own

519
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:57,120
any Bitcoin, you are completely collateralized. You're completely protected because the class A

520
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:03,000
shares would be worthless. So you can get this, it's so crazy how you can get that sort of

521
00:39:03,620 --> 00:39:07,000
protected yield in that manner. I think it's kind of a cool way to do it.

522
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,480
Well, that's a really interesting thought. Yeah, because your put option that you buy

523
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:19,880
is effectively insurance to the downside. You can lock in a 200 basis point, probably 500 basis

524
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:25,320
point credit spread if you bought a put and held strife relative.

525
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,360
Put costs like 1%. Yeah. So you're getting a 10% yield instead of an 11% yield effectively.

526
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:32,280
With insurance.

527
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:37,080
Yeah, it's insane.

528
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:43,080
With insurance that if they didn't actually have the Bitcoin, which that's just wild.

529
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,080
You know, it's insane.

530
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,080
Yeah.

531
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,360
I'll go back to what Saylor says all the time.

532
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:53,840
If you have land and you build a building in Manhattan, and he talked about that, whatever

533
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,780
it was, five, six months ago with the New Zealand person, that interviewer, I always

534
00:39:57,780 --> 00:39:58,980
forget her name.

535
00:39:58,980 --> 00:40:01,980
And what he said was, is that when he gets the money, he deploys it.

536
00:40:01,980 --> 00:40:06,320
If you're going to go build something, right, if PGE wants to go do upgrades or any of these

537
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,480
companies or Boeing wants to go build more planes, it takes physical infrastructure to

538
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:11,100
go do that.

539
00:40:11,380 --> 00:40:15,840
By the time they build a new factory or plant and hire people, that could be one, two, three,

540
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:16,880
four years out there.

541
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,020
And if you have a real estate person that wants to go do a building and you give them

542
00:40:22,020 --> 00:40:24,320
a billion dollars, it takes them three years to build it.

543
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:30,280
Saylor can deploy this in one week, a billion dollars into cyberspace, deploy it and buy

544
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:30,820
the Bitcoin.

545
00:40:30,820 --> 00:40:33,140
and Bitcoin trades 24 by 7.

546
00:40:33,260 --> 00:40:34,720
It doesn't get depreciated.

547
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:40,060
It doesn't need to have maintenance on it.

548
00:40:40,100 --> 00:40:42,120
It doesn't need a new roof or a new factory or whatever.

549
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,820
And then the storage costs are virtually zero.

550
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,080
So from that perspective is eventually these companies will wake up to this.

551
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,240
And these credit spreads that you're seeing here, it's like,

552
00:40:52,380 --> 00:40:56,880
why would I do this if I could just buy the strategy stock?

553
00:40:57,380 --> 00:41:00,420
And then what I can do is I could sell it anytime I want to.

554
00:41:00,420 --> 00:41:04,820
If I don't like it, then I sell it. I'm not tied into it just by owning Strike and Strife.

555
00:41:05,340 --> 00:41:10,080
And I think that part is really, that's really interesting for the folks that own that, for the companies that own that.

556
00:41:10,380 --> 00:41:13,460
They don't have to wait a five-year term. They could just do it for a year or two.

557
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,000
Like, oh, we got these great returns on it. Now we're going to sell it.

558
00:41:16,420 --> 00:41:22,700
That would probably trigger a taxable event, not giving financial advice for those companies, but they could hold it long term.

559
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,460
And I think that's why he built them.

560
00:41:25,660 --> 00:41:26,800
Completely. That's a good point.

561
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,340
The liquidity of those products is incredible.

562
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:35,880
And that's what he talked to us about a bit at strategy or at the New York conference was that these are fully liquid.

563
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,460
It only ups the efficiency of the converts, right?

564
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,980
There's a slight bit of inefficiency with the converts because they're private placement.

565
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:47,360
Now you've got these fully liquid convertible notes that pay a coupon to fixed income investors.

566
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:48,720
Like that is incredible.

567
00:41:48,820 --> 00:41:50,300
It's only it's that much more efficient.

568
00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:53,560
Yeah, your algos get that much more efficient, too.

569
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,960
They just have more places that they can trade and move it. And it's just another product with

570
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:03,200
another deep, future deep pool of liquidity. It's so funny. Where are the algos now?

571
00:42:03,620 --> 00:42:05,840
Look at this. This is an arbitrage, guys.

572
00:42:07,980 --> 00:42:09,300
This is an arbitrage.

573
00:42:09,980 --> 00:42:14,700
You buy Strife and then you buy the floor put option. I mean, just do that. You just do that.

574
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,100
I wouldn't tell someone to YOLO all into MicroStrategy necessarily. I'd tell them to YOLO

575
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:23,220
all into Strife and then buy the put, buy the deepest out of the money put. There you go.

576
00:42:23,220 --> 00:42:33,620
there's your 10%. You're locking it in. Yeah. Go ahead, Green. Yeah. So I'm happy that you built

577
00:42:33,620 --> 00:42:39,160
this chart. I think this is great. Just to give the folks, people on the call, context for what's

578
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,580
happening is that at the Bitwise event, it was approximately five hours. Saylor did a great

579
00:42:43,580 --> 00:42:48,760
masterclass on his presentation. Everybody should watch that. I think he had new content. The end

580
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,140
of it was great where he talked about these credit spreads. And I think that's what we're

581
00:42:52,140 --> 00:42:58,020
talking about right now. But what happened was, and I can't stress enough, this is advice.

582
00:42:58,500 --> 00:43:03,900
If this is your biggest investment that you have, or you have a decent amount of money in this,

583
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,600
you should go to an event and you should go meet Michael Saylor. I highly recommend that.

584
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:15,860
He is a very outgoing person. You can meet him. That is possible. We had about 30 minutes with him

585
00:43:15,860 --> 00:43:21,160
after this. And we talked about this in detail. And there was, initially it started, there was

586
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,260
three people. Jeff and I were there and a couple other friends. And then after a few minutes,

587
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:32,320
the crowd formed. And we talked about this in great detail. And this is a very esoteric area

588
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:39,440
to talk about, but he was very specific about what he thought was going on in this marketplace.

589
00:43:39,740 --> 00:43:44,020
And so my takeaway for that is that if you have not been to an event where Michael Saylor is,

590
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,440
my recommendation is to go to that event and then to go introduce yourself and meet the person. I

591
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:54,320
you get a much different experience uh doing something in person than online so that's my

592
00:43:54,320 --> 00:44:00,720
recommendation and yes father that person said that was my bedtime reminder so it is well i am

593
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:09,200
on the east coast it is it is 10 45 people i love it you know some of the some of the commentary in

594
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,680
in the x community right now is like where's the demand for the converts or like why isn't he

595
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:18,560
issued more converts and i think you know after after speaking with him that there's a lot of

596
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:24,080
a lot of focus on strife and strike because they're they're kick-ass products like everybody

597
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,880
should be eating these up and i think there's a decent amount of energy being pushed towards

598
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,960
the marketing of these products and the understanding of these products right there

599
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,200
they're a little bit foreign right we're talking about them all the time and dan i mean just last

600
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,760
week or two weeks ago you had your like aha moment on strike right now you've been obsessed with it

601
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,000
And like, when was it launched in February?

602
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,000
Right?

603
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,000
Yeah.

604
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:49,000
It took me a while.

605
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,800
And you were thinking about the stock like 24 seven all the time.

606
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:58,780
And now in order to get the rest of the world's mind around this, the other different capital

607
00:44:58,780 --> 00:45:03,600
pools, you got to go market the product, get out there, talk about what's going on.

608
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:10,240
And a podcast like this, other people talking about it in traditional financial framework,

609
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:16,860
just take some time. And I think there's desire to push more capital into strike as a convertible

610
00:45:16,860 --> 00:45:22,500
bond option because it is this fully liquid product and it is a convertible bond. It's just

611
00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:29,860
in a different wrapper, fully liquid wrapper. I think one thing that's interesting is you could,

612
00:45:30,060 --> 00:45:37,120
in theory, convert ARB hedge strike, but I don't think it's trading that way right now because of

613
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:43,060
the yield. That's the thing is the yield so high relative to the value of strike. You can't take

614
00:45:43,060 --> 00:45:48,400
the bond. You can't take the preferred and then do your delta hedging on it. Right. So I'm moving

615
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:53,360
that it's not moving. It's not moving. Right. Once it's once it's real high, right. Once strategy

616
00:45:53,360 --> 00:46:00,880
at a thousand plus a share and that yield is 2%, then you can go nuts with delta hedging and have

617
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:06,080
no time decay. Not that the converts really have that much time decay, but regardless, I think it'll

618
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:11,440
be more like a convert as the price of class a starts to go higher and we'll see more of that

619
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:16,460
convert our market move into the preferred market oh yeah until then i think there's some converts

620
00:46:16,460 --> 00:46:23,280
hopefully in the works or yeah yeah it's like that uh that image dan i think you had it maybe

621
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:28,200
you're showing it um next week at our at our um conference but that image where you look at the

622
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,580
convertible bond pricing curve relative to like where it converts into equity and once it starts

623
00:46:32,580 --> 00:46:36,980
moving, then it's like, that's where a lot of the Delta hedging can happen. But like when it's

624
00:46:36,980 --> 00:46:41,860
super low, it's just, it's kind of, it's the yield product. It's like the yield product hedge

625
00:46:41,860 --> 00:46:47,540
downside. Exactly. And the converts have zero yield too, right? Which adds to its,

626
00:46:48,100 --> 00:46:50,660
like it will start moving even quicker than the preferred.

627
00:46:50,660 --> 00:46:57,940
Right. Right. And the existing convertible bonds that have a 0% yield are moving more

628
00:46:57,940 --> 00:47:01,180
just because they're just way more sensitive to the equity.

629
00:47:01,180 --> 00:47:02,180
Right.

630
00:47:02,180 --> 00:47:03,180
Right.

631
00:47:03,180 --> 00:47:04,180
Okay.

632
00:47:04,180 --> 00:47:05,180
And the strike is so close, right?

633
00:47:05,180 --> 00:47:06,940
They're only 50% out of the money.

634
00:47:06,940 --> 00:47:07,940
Right.

635
00:47:07,940 --> 00:47:11,180
Some of them are more or less now, but they're only set 50% out of the money.

636
00:47:11,180 --> 00:47:14,180
Whereas these things are whatever, 300% out of the money as of now.

637
00:47:14,180 --> 00:47:15,180
Yeah.

638
00:47:15,180 --> 00:47:17,180
Way out of the money.

639
00:47:17,180 --> 00:47:18,180
Interesting though.

640
00:47:18,180 --> 00:47:22,180
Like if there was an options market on strike, I mean, you'd be buying calls, right?

641
00:47:22,180 --> 00:47:26,700
Because as this thing move into the money, the volatility is just going to go nuts.

642
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:29,020
It's going to move like equity as a guess.

643
00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:30,520
There we go.

644
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:31,520
There we go.

645
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:36,880
I went call options on strike and option on the option.

646
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:38,100
It's the third derivative.

647
00:47:38,100 --> 00:47:40,100
The third derivative.

648
00:47:40,100 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaking about that, the market has matured systemically since fourth quarter.

649
00:47:47,880 --> 00:48:01,130
There were no options even on IBIT until November 20th And so what happened is as Strike and Strife came out and the market he acquired a lot more Bitcoin in the balance sheet there a lot of other

650
00:48:01,130 --> 00:48:06,710
products that came out. Misty had already been available. IMST with Bitwise just was just launched

651
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:11,570
approximately, I guess, about a month ago. And so what now happens is that you have your choice

652
00:48:11,570 --> 00:48:18,190
and Saylor always puts up that chart about how do you refine oil that comes out of the ground.

653
00:48:18,250 --> 00:48:21,090
to make all these different products out of it. And that's what he's been talking about

654
00:48:21,090 --> 00:48:25,930
for maybe six months. I don't know. He originally showed that slide or maybe he showed it a year

655
00:48:25,930 --> 00:48:31,470
ago. And now as the market has matured, they have all these different products with different risk

656
00:48:31,470 --> 00:48:39,110
profiles and different return profiles, whether it just pays a fixed coupon on it or it's the

657
00:48:39,110 --> 00:48:43,770
micro strategies, sorry, strategy stock that just goes up and down, has more volatility.

658
00:48:43,770 --> 00:48:48,570
you have all these different choices. So again, not financial advice. I think about this.

659
00:48:49,330 --> 00:48:53,830
I like strategy stock. And if it's volatile, I want more strategy stock. I want options on it.

660
00:48:54,030 --> 00:48:58,170
If the market goes sideways, now I have the option to go into something like

661
00:48:58,170 --> 00:49:06,670
IMST with Bitwise, because then it will probably pay its dividend payment or strike or strife.

662
00:49:06,810 --> 00:49:10,790
And then when the market runs up, switch back and forth. So now I have something what I call

663
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:15,830
the trading pair between these two things and I'm able to switch back and forth between them.

664
00:49:15,970 --> 00:49:20,730
That's something that I look at and that was not available six months ago. The market has

665
00:49:20,730 --> 00:49:25,830
matured significantly. So that's the difference that I see and that takes time for this to all

666
00:49:25,830 --> 00:49:32,050
get built. So I think we're heading in the right direction. And to that point, can you imagine,

667
00:49:32,770 --> 00:49:37,370
I know Jeff and Mason, you guys have been talking about Metaplanet a lot recently or in the past

668
00:49:37,370 --> 00:49:41,050
couple days. I mean, I can't even, I don't have enough time to follow all this stuff and think

669
00:49:41,050 --> 00:49:44,590
about all the different products you can create in your own portfolio, whatever there be hedging,

670
00:49:44,750 --> 00:49:50,490
strife with puts, buying calls on MSTR, buying calls on the, it's, I mean, that's a full-time

671
00:49:50,490 --> 00:49:55,470
gig just looking at MSTR's derivatives. And Adrian, to your point, this is an ecosystem,

672
00:49:55,650 --> 00:50:01,770
right? Like if one, a group of analysts can full-time and not have enough time to focus on

673
00:50:01,770 --> 00:50:06,630
just MSTR's related products, right? On strategies related products. I mean, that in itself is an

674
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:12,150
ecosystem. Yeah. And how do you expect like a traditional financial analyst to be in front of

675
00:50:12,150 --> 00:50:18,950
this stuff? Like they just, they can't, right? Time is limited. It just takes too long.

676
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:23,450
Especially, especially with something like MetaPlanet, which I believe was the best performing

677
00:50:23,450 --> 00:50:28,710
stock in the world last year, right? For a traditional Wall Street analyst,

678
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:35,750
wrapping their head around strategy is is mind-numbing for them but learning Japanese

679
00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:41,590
securities law and all these different securities that Dylan's putting out there like I I don't

680
00:50:41,590 --> 00:50:47,230
understand I I don't have enough time to to really look into it and I was talking to Dylan I was like

681
00:50:47,230 --> 00:50:55,710
you you must have gotten like a PhD in Japanese securities law in like a year right he's he's had

682
00:50:55,710 --> 00:50:59,910
to he's had to keep up with all this in the same way that we've had to keep up with all of this so

683
00:50:59,910 --> 00:51:07,030
it kind of reminds me going back to the sailor quote of like focus your energy right there's

684
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:12,570
you only have so much bandwidth and as this as this market gets more complicated as there's more

685
00:51:12,570 --> 00:51:20,930
opportunities more shiny objects really make sure that you know what you are doing and and you have

686
00:51:20,930 --> 00:51:24,530
but you kind of have a fundamental understanding

687
00:51:24,530 --> 00:51:28,090
of what's going on in whatever it is you're investing.

688
00:51:28,090 --> 00:51:31,590
Not financial advice, but I think that's good life advice.

689
00:51:31,590 --> 00:51:33,690
And the thing with it is, is that to understand all this,

690
00:51:33,690 --> 00:51:35,430
you have to understand Bitcoin first, right?

691
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:37,170
That has a steep learning curve.

692
00:51:37,170 --> 00:51:39,530
And then to understand strategy on top of it,

693
00:51:39,530 --> 00:51:41,210
that's another steep learning curve.

694
00:51:41,210 --> 00:51:44,230
And now you gotta throw in Metaplan and Sembler and Cooler

695
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:47,510
and all these other, and GME and all these other plays.

696
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:49,890
This is very much ecosystem.

697
00:51:49,890 --> 00:51:55,250
is very much an economy and it's going to some people are going to burn out some people are going

698
00:51:55,250 --> 00:51:59,810
to find opportunities but it's going to require an entirely different way of thinking because you

699
00:51:59,810 --> 00:52:02,850
know jeff and dan was just walking through all the different ways you can play this thing

700
00:52:03,890 --> 00:52:09,490
and i think sailor's doing that deliberately he wants to create an economy an ecosystem that

701
00:52:09,490 --> 00:52:16,850
becomes self-sustaining and gives you adversarial and complementary plays that you can do to cover

702
00:52:16,850 --> 00:52:21,410
your own losses and to cover your own upside and to make sure that you have as many opportunities

703
00:52:21,410 --> 00:52:27,650
as possible to make money essentially. And I think that the more companies that copy that,

704
00:52:27,650 --> 00:52:32,370
so if similar copies of GME copies it and tries to do the same thing, it's only going to get more

705
00:52:32,370 --> 00:52:37,970
and more confusing for the traditional finance markets as we know it right now. So this is very,

706
00:52:37,970 --> 00:52:42,050
very early. I know it sounds corny to say it, but it's very, very early. And when the market

707
00:52:42,050 --> 00:52:47,810
cap gets larger and larger and the other players come into the fray it's only going to grow and

708
00:52:47,810 --> 00:52:52,450
it's going to become its own thing that's an entirely different way of thinking about finance

709
00:52:52,450 --> 00:52:59,010
so yeah i think that the future's bright yeah right this is this is the bitcoin portfolio

710
00:52:59,010 --> 00:53:04,210
theory right and the fact that sailor has created these products and they he's many the team is

711
00:53:04,210 --> 00:53:12,770
managing their leverage ratio very safely provides space for people to live on a Bitcoin standard

712
00:53:12,770 --> 00:53:18,130
with these products. And that's how you grow the Bitcoin ecosystem, right? Like what I'm doing

713
00:53:18,130 --> 00:53:25,650
right now, I'm living on a Bitcoin standard in the Bitcoin equity ecosystem. And if the price

714
00:53:25,650 --> 00:53:31,090
moves 100% from here, it goes to $600 back to a new all time high, there's going to be dozens,

715
00:53:31,090 --> 00:53:35,010
hundreds of other people that are going to be doing the same thing and they're going to be

716
00:53:35,010 --> 00:53:39,010
focusing their time and their energy on continuing to build the ecosystem i don't think that's priced

717
00:53:39,010 --> 00:53:43,810
in it's reflexive it's reflexive like like the whole thing's reflexive right because everybody's

718
00:53:43,810 --> 00:53:49,090
going to be like oh yeah you know got a brand new car new house and you know what whatever it is and

719
00:53:49,090 --> 00:53:53,970
that you know you start talking to your neighbor like what do you do well i'm uh i run a bitcoin

720
00:53:53,970 --> 00:53:59,010
company i think and we're going to hear more and more stories that's the thing that a lot of bitcoin

721
00:53:59,010 --> 00:54:03,390
Bitcoiners are missing, and I think we talked about this either last week or the week before.

722
00:54:03,390 --> 00:54:08,190
What strategy is doing, what all these other leveraged Bitcoin equities are doing is creating

723
00:54:08,190 --> 00:54:12,190
a market where a lot of players are essentially passive Bitcoin buyers.

724
00:54:12,190 --> 00:54:15,710
They're passive Bitcoin investors, and they're living passively on a Bitcoin standard.

725
00:54:15,710 --> 00:54:19,810
If you are someone that owns Bitcoin and you own strategy and you're playing options and

726
00:54:19,810 --> 00:54:22,390
you're living off of the income where you're getting misty and you're living off the dividend

727
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:26,570
or so on and so on and so forth, you are passively living on a Bitcoin standard whether you realize

728
00:54:26,570 --> 00:54:30,410
or not because all the volatility is coming from bitcoin which is driving the volatility of the

729
00:54:30,410 --> 00:54:33,850
stock which then makes the options market grow which then makes misty get more dividend paid

730
00:54:33,850 --> 00:54:40,490
and so on and so on and so forth um i i i really i'm looking forward to the day where a lot of the

731
00:54:42,090 --> 00:54:48,250
dogmatic opinions about bitcoin start to advance a little bit and we realize that the

732
00:54:48,250 --> 00:54:52,170
financialization of bitcoin was not only inevitable but it's also mutually beneficial

733
00:54:52,170 --> 00:54:54,570
and I think that's what

734
00:54:54,570 --> 00:54:55,730
Saylor's doing and he's

735
00:54:55,730 --> 00:54:58,590
effectively snuck into TradFi

736
00:54:58,590 --> 00:55:00,210
right now and I think people are

737
00:55:00,210 --> 00:55:01,770
still a little bit under the radar

738
00:55:01,770 --> 00:55:04,450
even though they've gone from 1 billion to 100 billion

739
00:55:04,450 --> 00:55:05,970
and it sounds crazy to say that

740
00:55:05,970 --> 00:55:08,450
he's still under the radar right now and there's still

741
00:55:08,450 --> 00:55:10,310
a lot of people that are going to get caught with their pants down

742
00:55:10,310 --> 00:55:12,390
with what I like to call the oh shit

743
00:55:12,390 --> 00:55:14,630
moment when this thing becomes so large

744
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:16,590
and they're just like where did this thing come

745
00:55:16,590 --> 00:55:18,450
from? How did we miss it? And it's

746
00:55:18,450 --> 00:55:19,650
only going to grow from there as well

747
00:55:19,650 --> 00:55:20,830
and yeah

748
00:55:20,830 --> 00:55:26,630
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to, sorry. Yeah. So one of the things that happened at the Bitwise event was,

749
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:33,550
we met a lot of people there and it was known that the MSCR2 North people were there.

750
00:55:34,030 --> 00:55:38,090
And so what happened is I spoke to a couple of people and they're like, you actually do this

751
00:55:38,090 --> 00:55:44,850
full time. I'm like, oh yeah, we're talking 10, 20, 30 hours a week of research. And we are all

752
00:55:44,850 --> 00:55:49,430
focused on this particular area. This whole ecosystem comment that we're talking about,

753
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:55,890
strike, strife, the stock itself, the converts, any traditional analyst will probably be reviewing

754
00:55:55,890 --> 00:56:02,250
10, 20, 30, 40 different stocks. And they don't have that laser focus what's going on.

755
00:56:02,250 --> 00:56:08,570
So as Jeff always say, this will be the most hated rally on Wall Street. And for us, it's the

756
00:56:08,570 --> 00:56:13,150
most loved rally because we've been tracking this for two years, three years, four years,

757
00:56:13,250 --> 00:56:17,430
five years, however long you've been in it. And we made these enormous gains and we're helping

758
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:21,950
this whole community. And so I think the craziest thing is that when I continue to talk to people,

759
00:56:22,450 --> 00:56:26,130
either the ones that are not in this at all, and they're like, how much time do you spend on this?

760
00:56:26,750 --> 00:56:32,730
As much as I can. This is it. This is what's propelled us forward. And I think that's where

761
00:56:32,730 --> 00:56:38,650
it is. And I think that if people saw the gains in their own accounts, they would spend also that

762
00:56:38,650 --> 00:56:45,170
much time on it. If you can't make, if you don't see the return, you won't do it. So we all put in,

763
00:56:45,170 --> 00:56:49,890
as adrian said you have to understand bitcoin first and once you understand that you apply to

764
00:56:49,890 --> 00:56:55,810
a bitcoin treasury company and now we're on the cutting edge of this of seeing how it happens

765
00:56:55,810 --> 00:57:00,210
so for us to be honest with you i'm just waiting for the next for the run-up to happen as it's

766
00:57:00,210 --> 00:57:05,810
happening right now i just i wait what do i do i have to wait and i'm okay with that

767
00:57:07,650 --> 00:57:15,010
there's a if you listen closely there's a there's a sucking sound and the sucking sound is capital

768
00:57:15,170 --> 00:57:23,370
going into Bitcoin, right? It's going into Bitcoin. And how is this happening? Well,

769
00:57:23,410 --> 00:57:31,130
slowly at first, and then faster and faster and faster. And Sailor made a great point about,

770
00:57:32,130 --> 00:57:37,770
we're talking about marketing. I think Justin, Justin does some work for us behind the scenes.

771
00:57:37,770 --> 00:57:42,690
He manages the chat. Hi, Justin. He asked him, do you have any plans for marketing?

772
00:57:42,690 --> 00:57:49,470
and we're at this bitwise event it was beautiful right there's you know free drinks it was great

773
00:57:49,470 --> 00:57:59,510
right on the water perfect day in front of you know 200 uh wall street executives analysts people

774
00:57:59,510 --> 00:58:08,110
in the broader crypto space retail people and sailor gives this i mean it was amazing we were

775
00:58:08,110 --> 00:58:14,130
all there. I hope Bitwise posts it because it was an amazing speech. And he hammered it. He murdered

776
00:58:14,130 --> 00:58:20,430
it. Right. And he has it so concise at this point where it's kind of, you can't dispute it. You can't

777
00:58:20,430 --> 00:58:27,230
dispute it. It's like, there's Bitcoin and then there's everything else. And if you're not in

778
00:58:27,230 --> 00:58:33,670
Bitcoin, well, good luck. And he radiates confidence because look at what he's done. And he already

779
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:39,990
knows what's going to happen, right? He's like, like, Bitcoin's going to 10 million, right? He's

780
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:45,950
been very open about this. He's telling his secret. He's saying, there's more companies

781
00:58:45,950 --> 00:58:51,230
doing this. Welcome. You're helping me. You're helping the ecosystem because it's not zero sum,

782
00:58:51,470 --> 00:58:58,070
right? And what he specifically said about marketing was, I didn't pay for any of this.

783
00:58:58,070 --> 00:59:18,330
I'm here today, right? I'm talking to all these big names on Wall Street, and I didn't pay for any of this. This is because of the ecosystem, Bitwise, which has multiple ETFs, IMST, which is, you know, covered calls. And what's their other one? OwnB?

784
00:59:18,330 --> 00:59:25,990
which is the larger bitcoin treasury company uh etf he said i didn't pay for this

785
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:34,430
so what's happening here is people once they join the ecosystem suddenly have a self-interest

786
00:59:34,430 --> 00:59:43,030
and they're welcoming more people with open arms and and how does this happen well slowly

787
00:59:43,030 --> 00:59:48,750
and then faster and faster and faster as as people oh you bought the boat you bought the car or

788
00:59:48,750 --> 00:59:55,970
whatever it's not even that it's oh you you feel you seem relaxed or you seem happy or you seem

789
00:59:55,970 --> 01:00:03,270
hopeful or you know you're not you're not miserable or nihilistic right and and it it kind of radiates

790
01:00:03,270 --> 01:00:09,630
out so how is this going to happen slowly and then all at once and it's incredibly reflexive

791
01:00:09,630 --> 01:00:22,690
That's what I keep coming back to is Bitcoin is this perfectly scarce thing that is entering TradFi, and that's never happened before.

792
01:00:23,150 --> 01:00:32,590
It's never, this is an event that we were witnessing for the first time, and it's really profound that we get to be here at this moment to see it grow.

793
01:00:32,590 --> 01:01:01,190
I agree. And I add something the way I'd say it. He said something very keen in his speech to what you're saying. It's why are people listening? Why do I why do people let me do this? Why do they create products off my stock? It's because people are making money. Right. And he looks at any kind of squints. He's like, yeah, because people are making money, guys. Like, yeah, don't forget that's, you know, he's like, what are these Wall Street guys want? They want to make money. What are the convert arm guys want to do? They want to make money. I mean, you can trust greed. And that's one thing. I think you can kind of trust greed.

794
01:01:01,190 --> 01:01:12,790
And he's very clear in that he's creating a trading device, an ecosystem, products that do exactly what his investors are looking for because they want to make money off this thing.

795
01:01:13,290 --> 01:01:15,590
And so the incentives are aligned.

796
01:01:15,770 --> 01:01:17,090
I just think the incentives are aligned.

797
01:01:17,550 --> 01:01:18,430
Everyone wants to make money.

798
01:01:19,050 --> 01:01:25,370
And I'd want to be in a stock, in an equity, where people want to enter it because they believe they can make money.

799
01:01:25,370 --> 01:01:30,650
Well, the thing about it is, is that not only are the incentives aligned, but I think people

800
01:01:30,650 --> 01:01:34,750
miss the point that Bitcoin is actually a very cooperative system. The more people that

801
01:01:34,750 --> 01:01:40,810
participate, the more the participants benefit, right? In a fiat-driven mindset, more participants

802
01:01:40,810 --> 01:01:44,730
leads to more dilution, which leads to more competition. And I think that's part of the

803
01:01:44,730 --> 01:01:49,890
challenge that traditional companies are having, why more people haven't just followed Sailor.

804
01:01:50,290 --> 01:01:54,270
Because to us, common sense, we're looking at a billion to a hundred billion, and we're like,

805
01:01:54,270 --> 01:01:56,530
what's the holdup, right?

806
01:01:56,790 --> 01:01:59,210
But I think traditional finance is looking at it

807
01:01:59,210 --> 01:02:01,210
and still in a very, very competitive stance.

808
01:02:01,650 --> 01:02:04,130
They don't want to get into something they can't dominate.

809
01:02:04,790 --> 01:02:06,210
They don't want to get into something

810
01:02:06,210 --> 01:02:09,370
where they can have a cooperative system

811
01:02:09,370 --> 01:02:10,890
that everyone benefits from.

812
01:02:11,470 --> 01:02:13,090
Bitcoin goes up, strategy wins.

813
01:02:13,350 --> 01:02:14,790
Bitcoin goes up, you win.

814
01:02:14,970 --> 01:02:15,990
You know, they don't want that.

815
01:02:16,410 --> 01:02:18,430
And I think it's a very, very different kind of thinking.

816
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:22,790
And I also think that that is something

817
01:02:22,790 --> 01:02:27,910
that's going to leave a lot of companies in the dust if they cannot reconcile a new cooperative

818
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:33,270
paradigm in a new cooperative economy in a new cooperative ecosystem they're going to be very

819
01:02:33,270 --> 01:02:38,550
very swiftly left behind in the fiat world where they're still playing the same games doing stock

820
01:02:38,550 --> 01:02:44,630
buybacks playing the same kind of leverage arbitrage games that they play without getting

821
01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:49,670
on this bandwagon and to mason's point the oh shit moment's going to happen and then everyone's going

822
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:54,830
going to kind of flood it, right? And I think that's when we see scary runups in price. And I

823
01:02:54,830 --> 01:03:01,330
don't mean like literally scary. What I mean is I envision a year where we see Bitcoin start off

824
01:03:01,330 --> 01:03:07,430
with a certain number of zeros and then end that year with one or two more zeros within the same

825
01:03:07,430 --> 01:03:11,890
year. And that becomes a new price point. And then we go from that price point onwards. Because

826
01:03:11,890 --> 01:03:16,930
again, to Mason's point, it's a vacuum cleaner, right? It's sucking in all the capital. Bitcoin

827
01:03:16,930 --> 01:03:21,250
can do that by default it can siphon away capital from all these markets and if you look at the

828
01:03:21,250 --> 01:03:25,010
global market there's anywhere between one and two quadrillion when you look at derivatives we

829
01:03:25,010 --> 01:03:31,970
look at bonds we look at real estate there's there's a lot of room to grow i think right when

830
01:03:32,530 --> 01:03:38,610
just real quick last thing to add um in a recent interview sailor said you know the latest pushback

831
01:03:39,410 --> 01:03:44,690
he he said people used to say oh it won't work the latest pushback was oh you've done it too well

832
01:03:44,690 --> 01:03:46,490
you've already won, right?

833
01:03:46,710 --> 01:03:49,850
And that's, this is where Bitcoin's an ego test.

834
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:58,440
you have to accept you or you have to you have to exactly what you said adrian is you have to accept

835
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:08,600
that joining it isn't an it or joining it late isn't an indictment of you right it's you're doing

836
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:12,840
it because you're you're benefiting from it and that's what's beautiful about it is that you get

837
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:17,800
to you get to be a part of it and you get to benefit from it and it's again it's not zero sum

838
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:23,160
every single person who's ever bought bitcoin has missed the first 100x

839
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:28,200
because it started off at you know effectively zero like if you take that limit every single

840
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:34,920
person who's bought bitcoin has missed the first 100x yeah the ego test you have to pass the ego

841
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:42,040
test yeah when you look at that realistically assume that bitcoin started at a dollar i missed

842
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:48,360
the first 2000x and i've been in it for eight years i missed the first not even at zero i already

843
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:54,600
i already missed the first 2000x so i thought i was late back then i i who knows where this is

844
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:59,800
going to be in one or two or three years down the road think about what you just said at the very

845
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:07,880
beginning part of this call um approximately what 190 000 bitcoins and now there's 550 in january of

846
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:16,040
2024 and now we have 500 strategy has 553 000 bitcoins on the balance sheet where is it going

847
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:23,160
to be in two years if it goes to a million bitcoins there people get gravitated when you switch over

848
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:30,200
from a six digit to a seven digit number and we saw this in 2017. in 2017 it was can bitcoin break

849
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:34,200
ten thousand dollars per coin it started a thousand and eventually it almost hit twenty

850
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:40,120
thousand that year so people attach that number so i think a seven digit number for it to switch over

851
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:45,720
i think that can happen sooner than people think and once it breaks that barrier as uh dan said

852
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:51,960
about unit bias or or scale bias as adrian said once you hit that number then it's like oh i guess

853
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,600
it can go bigger same thing with a company where it's a trillion dollar market cap it's got to slow

854
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:02,920
down no it didn't seem to for the top three companies for microsoft apple and uh nvidia

855
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:10,440
put on the gas over to you tim you got something yeah i was i was listening to mason talking about

856
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:16,760
that sucking sound right of capital out of these uh pools these martin you can hear it right i can

857
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:24,360
i can hear it but the the sucking sound is not going into game stop right i have a little

858
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:30,760
i don't know it just doesn't make me feel great that we keep bringing up this name that yes it's

859
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:37,480
a meme stock yes they have made this announcement but as of public announcements as of today

860
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:46,200
they don't have any bitcoin so we can stop talking about it like join the ecosystem right i i just

861
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:53,720
think i don't know the whole it doesn't fit the vibe of the messaging in the bitcoin treasury space

862
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:55,300
That's just my opinion.

863
01:06:56,780 --> 01:06:57,260
Yeah.

864
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:59,980
Everybody that's bought Bitcoin has been super transparent about it.

865
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:01,860
And they're excited to talk to you about it.

866
01:07:01,980 --> 01:07:02,180
Yeah.

867
01:07:02,380 --> 01:07:05,240
So I did think it was super cool.

868
01:07:05,620 --> 01:07:07,640
And everybody probably knows it because I retweeted it.

869
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:15,500
But Bitwise had a little clip today where they asked Eric Semler, Tom Lee, and Stephanie

870
01:07:15,500 --> 01:07:24,260
Lemmerman, how many companies are going to be on this Bitcoin treasury, this Bitcoin standard,

871
01:07:24,380 --> 01:07:30,920
have a Bitcoin treasury strategy? And you can go listen to the clip. I think two of them said

872
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:39,340
there's going to be thousands, right? Eric Summers saying thousands. And one of the people said

873
01:07:39,340 --> 01:07:47,760
closer to 20%. And I went back to the clip that's literally the cover clip for the Treasuries

874
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:52,700
podcast. And I think it was December of last year, I said, and it's still floating out there,

875
01:07:52,700 --> 01:07:58,320
I think at least one out of every 10 companies. Now, I don't know. Nobody knows the future,

876
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:02,720
but that was kind of my guess when I started that project. And I just think it's really

877
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:08,800
interesting that now you have arguably the most knowledgeable people in the space,

878
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:15,460
right similar scientific fun strat fold kraken saying like it's going to be thousands of companies

879
01:08:15,460 --> 01:08:24,600
it could be closer to 20 that's super interesting from like december to april um so yeah i thought

880
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:30,980
that was interesting and what are there like 50 55 000 companies in america something like that

881
01:08:30,980 --> 01:08:36,660
just some like absolutely absurd number most of them are private but uh and yeah and and that

882
01:08:36,660 --> 01:08:39,000
That's just continuing to evolve.

883
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:45,580
It's like, as Saylor says, right now it's on a need to know basis, but in hindsight, it's going to be obvious.

884
01:08:45,960 --> 01:09:02,700
I'm super intrigued, whoever wants to take this, but Jeff, how did it hit you when you first saw the stat that 55 million retail investors directly or indirectly hold strategy stock, MSTR?

885
01:09:02,700 --> 01:09:04,460
I mean, that's a big number.

886
01:09:04,460 --> 01:09:11,120
well huge number well it's qqq right i mean anybody that holds qqq and some sort some form

887
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:18,300
of qqq or um you know target date fund that follows qqq to some regard like is how it sneaks

888
01:09:18,300 --> 01:09:25,060
in there and i i bet you 80 of probably more 90 of them probably don't even know that they hold it

889
01:09:25,060 --> 01:09:31,520
yeah the other thing that so and it just becomes like more more and more popular right the other

890
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:37,700
thing i think uh adrian or someone referenced uh maybe dan did jeff uh joe burnett's uh one post

891
01:09:37,700 --> 01:09:46,080
today it the part that struck me um is he was saying what you hear a lot these days which is

892
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:53,060
corporates institutional nation state but he said and of course also still individuals

893
01:09:53,060 --> 01:09:59,740
which brings me to my vacay treasury company in the wild story.

894
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:04,780
So I snuck away literally the morning after the Bitwise event to Turks.

895
01:10:05,140 --> 01:10:06,240
Hadn't been there before.

896
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:07,220
Super cool place.

897
01:10:08,140 --> 01:10:11,620
If you ever want to go on vacation and not have anyone else at the pool,

898
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,100
do it two weeks after spring break.

899
01:10:14,300 --> 01:10:16,180
So we got lucky with that.

900
01:10:16,180 --> 01:10:18,820
But I'm sitting at this restaurant and I say to Elizabeth,

901
01:10:18,820 --> 01:10:23,380
with, hey, that guy over there has a Bitcoin logo on his Yeti Tumblr.

902
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:25,700
And I said, don't worry, I'm not going to say anything.

903
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:27,500
You guys know that's false.

904
01:10:27,940 --> 01:10:31,940
So they get up to leave, and the guy's walking towards me to walk past me.

905
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,400
I go, hey, I really like that Bitcoin logo.

906
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:36,920
He goes, if you know, you know.

907
01:10:39,620 --> 01:10:53,432
And I said I don know what I said to him but his wife said to my my girlfriend she goes we got a business And she goes we got a podcast

908
01:10:55,992 --> 01:10:59,812
And I looked at him and he's kind of anonymous.

909
01:10:59,812 --> 01:11:01,372
Right. So I don't want to say too much.

910
01:11:01,392 --> 01:11:03,452
But I say, can I ask you a personal question?

911
01:11:03,452 --> 01:11:04,152
He said, sure.

912
01:11:04,552 --> 01:11:07,432
I said, do you have any Bitcoin in your corporate treasury?

913
01:11:07,432 --> 01:11:10,572
He said, I mean, almost entirely.

914
01:11:10,572 --> 01:11:14,232
I was like, all right, well, here's my info if you ever want to chat.

915
01:11:14,632 --> 01:11:17,112
So like the individuals are still out there, right?

916
01:11:17,132 --> 01:11:19,912
All these Anons just lurking, just stacking.

917
01:11:20,232 --> 01:11:22,112
So I just wanted to highlight that for a second.

918
01:11:24,632 --> 01:11:26,492
It's happening behind closed doors, right?

919
01:11:26,612 --> 01:11:30,752
All these sailor interviews are not going on deaf ears.

920
01:11:31,092 --> 01:11:32,212
People are taking action.

921
01:11:32,992 --> 01:11:33,152
Yeah.

922
01:11:34,032 --> 01:11:34,572
Exciting times.

923
01:11:34,692 --> 01:11:37,692
Should we get into earnings or just talk about what prep for earnings?

924
01:11:38,412 --> 01:11:40,552
Can I just say one last thing about the Bitwise?

925
01:11:40,572 --> 01:11:47,532
event it was just uh for me that was kind of the the first event that i've been to um

926
01:11:49,052 --> 01:11:56,012
since true north right since true north has only been around since september october and it was

927
01:11:56,012 --> 01:12:04,732
just incredible to have the the retail people there come up and say hi and it was it felt really

928
01:12:04,732 --> 01:12:10,972
powerful to me that we're affecting change and people are listening to us and um i just want to

929
01:12:10,972 --> 01:12:18,012
say thank you to the to the people that came up and said hi it was really really cool and uh made

930
01:12:18,012 --> 01:12:24,732
me feel really motivated and enthusiastic about continuing this and continuing doing work and

931
01:12:24,732 --> 01:12:33,932
continuing educating and spreading the word about uh bitcoin strategy and uh bitcoin treasury companies

932
01:12:34,732 --> 01:12:37,792
Mason's just focusing that he's a rock star now.

933
01:12:37,792 --> 01:12:40,912
He's like, people recognize me.

934
01:12:40,912 --> 01:12:41,912
He's like, whoa.

935
01:12:41,912 --> 01:12:43,852
Yeah, it was weird, but yeah.

936
01:12:43,852 --> 01:12:47,792
Yeah, it's really cool.

937
01:12:47,792 --> 01:12:51,752
And big shout out to Bitwise for hosting the event and inviting us out there.

938
01:12:51,752 --> 01:12:53,992
I mean, it was an incredible event.

939
01:12:53,992 --> 01:12:55,712
And shout out to everybody that came up and said hi.

940
01:12:55,712 --> 01:12:57,292
Yeah, we love having conversations.

941
01:12:57,292 --> 01:13:01,952
And it's great to meet people in a small environment like that.

942
01:13:01,952 --> 01:13:02,952
Good point.

943
01:13:02,952 --> 01:13:04,552
Shift to earnings.

944
01:13:04,732 --> 01:13:06,292
Earnings is tomorrow.

945
01:13:06,292 --> 01:13:07,712
And where should we start?

946
01:13:07,712 --> 01:13:10,052
So throughout Q1,

947
01:13:10,912 --> 01:13:12,832
strategy had,

948
01:13:12,832 --> 01:13:17,152
so MSTR will be adopting FASB fair value accounting

949
01:13:17,152 --> 01:13:19,012
at the end for this Q1 earnings.

950
01:13:19,012 --> 01:13:21,672
It will be announced tomorrow at close

951
01:13:21,672 --> 01:13:22,852
when they talk about it.

952
01:13:22,852 --> 01:13:25,232
Now with FASB fair value accounting,

953
01:13:25,232 --> 01:13:29,152
MSTR has to mark their Bitcoin to market

954
01:13:29,152 --> 01:13:30,392
at the end of Q1.

955
01:13:30,392 --> 01:13:33,632
So it starts from day one on Q1,

956
01:13:33,632 --> 01:13:41,332
January 1st and ends March 30th. Yeah, ends March 30th. So any gain or loss during that period is

957
01:13:41,332 --> 01:13:47,452
applied to every single Bitcoin that they own. So Bitcoin started the quarter at, I want to say

958
01:13:47,452 --> 01:13:53,992
93,600. And I think it ended the quarter around 83,000, something like that, maybe 84,000. This

959
01:13:53,992 --> 01:14:02,232
is right around Josh's prophecy. And so strategy is going to have or announce around a $5.1 billion

960
01:14:02,232 --> 01:14:09,772
dollar net loss on the Bitcoin held on balance sheet. And this will be reflected in a very

961
01:14:09,772 --> 01:14:14,212
negative earnings per share. I think it'll be somewhere, I don't know, around between negative

962
01:14:14,212 --> 01:14:20,952
$12 and negative $19 per share. There's a little nuance with how tax is accounted for

963
01:14:20,952 --> 01:14:27,492
and the software business and other business stuff that happens in between, but it's likely going to

964
01:14:27,492 --> 01:14:33,672
be a very negative number. This is on the back of adopting FASB fair value accounting. They also

965
01:14:33,672 --> 01:14:38,832
had a $12.7 billion gain in 2024 that's being added to retained earnings at the beginning of

966
01:14:38,832 --> 01:14:47,192
the period. So this will reflect that MSTR actually had a $12.7 billion gain last year in 2024,

967
01:14:47,612 --> 01:14:52,032
but it's going to come out of a very negative earnings here in Q1 2025, which is hilarious

968
01:14:52,032 --> 01:14:57,152
because if you go, you look at what the analyst reports estimated earnings per share for strategy

969
01:14:57,152 --> 01:15:03,952
are, they're negative two cents per share. That's like analyst consensus. And we're talking about

970
01:15:03,952 --> 01:15:10,112
something that might be like negative $15 a share. It's just a complete blowout, right, from what

971
01:15:10,112 --> 01:15:17,792
analysts expect to expect to happen, which I think really just emphasizes how far behind some of the

972
01:15:17,792 --> 01:15:23,552
traditional financial markets may be on this. I mean, the algos in the system may understand what's

973
01:15:23,552 --> 01:15:28,752
going on. But the people that are running the analysis on this stock have no idea what's going

974
01:15:28,752 --> 01:15:32,272
on. They have no idea mark to market value. They have no idea of the accounting nuance.

975
01:15:35,312 --> 01:15:41,792
There will be significant posts about this tomorrow and Friday. It's probably going to be

976
01:15:41,792 --> 01:15:46,352
from Peter Schiff. It's going to be from Jason Calacanis. It's going to be from all the typical

977
01:15:46,352 --> 01:15:53,472
people seeking alpha, probably Citadel are going to come out and say, strategy at a $5 billion loss,

978
01:15:53,552 --> 01:15:58,912
it's the worst company ever how is it you know price so high but they actually have no idea

979
01:15:59,552 --> 01:16:06,192
that that entire loss in q1 has actually already been made up here in q2 and the price of the price

980
01:16:06,192 --> 01:16:11,232
of bitcoin's at 95 000 and strategies already made money on their bitcoin held on balance sheet in q2

981
01:16:11,792 --> 01:16:17,712
so there's this like traditional quarter over quarter framework that that most of the traditional

982
01:16:17,712 --> 01:16:24,272
market operates on, but you've got this new system that's 24, seven, 365 with significant volatility.

983
01:16:24,272 --> 01:16:28,192
And I think there will be this continued like one more quarter of additional bewilderment

984
01:16:29,232 --> 01:16:34,512
where there's significant FUD that's going to be thrown at MSTR, which in my opinion,

985
01:16:34,512 --> 01:16:38,912
I think is incredibly good because it's really like pulling the slingshot of where this thing

986
01:16:38,912 --> 01:16:45,152
could go back even further. Because at some point, part of my thesis is that there will be this

987
01:16:45,152 --> 01:16:52,412
really large earning per share gain in a single quarter, and it's going to surprise so many people.

988
01:16:52,532 --> 01:16:56,132
It's going to hit headline news. It's going to be on the news. It's going to be on Bloomberg.

989
01:16:56,852 --> 01:17:06,192
For every $10,000 that the price of Bitcoin goes up, strategy makes $555 billion.

990
01:17:06,192 --> 01:17:17,672
dollars. So, right, if the price of Bitcoin goes to 150,000 by the end of Q2, you're looking at a

991
01:17:17,672 --> 01:17:24,772
25 billion dollar gain in a single quarter, which is just an absolutely astronomical number. And I

992
01:17:24,772 --> 01:17:28,792
want to put this in perspective, and I've got this sheet here. This is the top 10 publicly traded

993
01:17:28,792 --> 01:17:36,672
company's net capital comparison just over this last year, 2024. So I wanted to point out the

994
01:17:36,672 --> 01:17:53,884
10th largest company in the entire US stock market is Eli Lilly Eli Lilly has a billion market cap and they made billion last year over the entire year That was their net earnings Strategy made billion in 2024

995
01:17:54,924 --> 01:18:00,484
So they're chomping on the heels, right? And you've got Tesla right here. They had a $8 billion

996
01:18:00,484 --> 01:18:06,404
earnings last year. So Strategy had larger earnings than Tesla did last year in 2024.

997
01:18:06,404 --> 01:18:11,684
Now, if you're looking at a situation where Bitcoin rips to $150,000 in that scenario,

998
01:18:12,384 --> 01:18:18,684
they're going to make $25, $30 billion in a single quarter. You're talking about at least

999
01:18:18,684 --> 01:18:24,624
a top 10 publicly traded stock, assuming that Bitcoin just continues to move on a positive

1000
01:18:24,624 --> 01:18:31,484
format into perpetuity. So the relativity here, I think, is incredibly important. You think about

1001
01:18:31,484 --> 01:18:40,944
the power of Bitcoin and this being compared to other equities as earnings. What is a stock worth?

1002
01:18:41,284 --> 01:18:46,924
How do you value any stock? Is every single dollar, marginal dollar of earnings equivalent?

1003
01:18:48,564 --> 01:18:53,744
All of these companies that you see on the screen, they have different financial structures.

1004
01:18:54,784 --> 01:18:59,564
They have different leverage ratios. You look at Apple. Apple's got an 81% leverage ratio.

1005
01:18:59,564 --> 01:19:03,444
So granted, that's an incredibly stable product and you've got revenue coming in the door.

1006
01:19:03,484 --> 01:19:08,024
That's very consistent, but they don't have any ability to leverage up their balance sheet

1007
01:19:08,024 --> 01:19:08,424
anymore.

1008
01:19:09,124 --> 01:19:13,504
And you look at some of these other companies and in comparing all of these metrics, right?

1009
01:19:14,144 --> 01:19:17,664
Strategy looks really powerful and poised for significant amount of growth.

1010
01:19:17,744 --> 01:19:19,284
You've got a 19% leverage ratio.

1011
01:19:19,404 --> 01:19:20,664
So you've got ability to leverage up.

1012
01:19:20,944 --> 01:19:22,384
You got a debt coverage ratio.

1013
01:19:22,524 --> 01:19:24,664
So you can cover your debt by five times.

1014
01:19:25,304 --> 01:19:27,304
That's kind of like the inverse of the leverage ratio.

1015
01:19:27,304 --> 01:19:33,484
The multiple on net capital held, basically the market is relative to other equities in the market

1016
01:19:33,484 --> 01:19:39,264
is underpricing their growth potential on their net capital, basically their financial strength.

1017
01:19:39,664 --> 01:19:47,064
You've got earnings that competes with the top eight to 10 companies in the US stock market.

1018
01:19:47,584 --> 01:19:52,624
And the revenue per employee just absolutely obliterates every other company in the entire

1019
01:19:52,624 --> 01:19:59,344
market. And the PE ratio, so the trading 12 month PE ratio for strategy is eight. And you look at

1020
01:19:59,344 --> 01:20:04,384
this relative to the rest of the market, right? The top 10 companies, the average PE ratio is 37.

1021
01:20:05,824 --> 01:20:12,384
So it really begs the question is like, what is a stock? How do you value any stock? And what is

1022
01:20:13,424 --> 01:20:21,504
the price for a marginal dollar of earnings? So I think we're going higher, right? That's it.

1023
01:20:21,504 --> 01:20:25,904
You know, Jeff, I totally agree. If you look at what you have here, if you look at the number of

1024
01:20:25,904 --> 01:20:31,584
employees that Strategy has, they have 1,500. I mean, think about how efficient that is versus

1025
01:20:31,584 --> 01:20:39,104
all the other column end there. The other thing about this is that I just think that

1026
01:20:40,304 --> 01:20:46,384
they're just not getting it. It's really just that simple. And whatever stats you put here,

1027
01:20:46,384 --> 01:20:50,704
after a while, they just look at it like, yeah, we're not getting it. I don't know how else they

1028
01:20:50,704 --> 01:20:51,664
like it said.

1029
01:20:51,664 --> 01:20:55,664
And then the last part is that when you watch news,

1030
01:20:55,664 --> 01:20:56,924
you'll see this on the news.

1031
01:20:56,924 --> 01:20:58,864
It's like, oh, housing prices go up.

1032
01:20:58,864 --> 01:20:59,524
Oh, that's terrible.

1033
01:20:59,524 --> 01:21:00,944
People can't buy houses.

1034
01:21:00,944 --> 01:21:02,424
Housing prices go down.

1035
01:21:02,424 --> 01:21:06,024
Oh, that's terrible because now people are underwater.

1036
01:21:06,024 --> 01:21:08,344
Their house is now worth less than they bought it.

1037
01:21:08,344 --> 01:21:09,824
Like, wait a second.

1038
01:21:09,824 --> 01:21:12,044
Why are both those scenarios, if it goes up or down,

1039
01:21:12,044 --> 01:21:13,364
the price is bad?

1040
01:21:13,364 --> 01:21:16,984
So what you're going to hear is the narrative is, oh,

1041
01:21:16,984 --> 01:21:20,684
strategy has to take this, it shows this,

1042
01:21:20,704 --> 01:21:26,324
as they mark the Bitcoins, it's going to show this so-called loss, right? That's terrible.

1043
01:21:26,784 --> 01:21:31,344
But in the quarter where it goes up by $5 billion or $10 billion, they're going to say,

1044
01:21:31,344 --> 01:21:37,844
oh my God, that's terrible because they're not making that earnings per share income from their

1045
01:21:37,844 --> 01:21:43,024
operating business. You'll be like, wait a second, the number is negative, it's bad. And if it's

1046
01:21:43,024 --> 01:21:48,764
positive, it's bad also. You're like, how is that the case? And you'll just always hear them always

1047
01:21:48,764 --> 01:21:54,684
take the flip side because people love bad news even if it's not they always love that negative

1048
01:21:54,684 --> 01:22:01,564
narrative and after a while you're like i'm just not going to pay attention yeah i absolutely and

1049
01:22:01,564 --> 01:22:07,404
where where this gets even more reflexive right if strategy qualifies for the s p 500 right the s p

1050
01:22:07,404 --> 01:22:14,524
500 is uh you know 10 times larger in terms of assets under you know assets that follow the s p

1051
01:22:14,524 --> 01:22:20,924
500 is 10 times larger than qqq so we saw what happened in qqq with the front running and the

1052
01:22:20,924 --> 01:22:25,644
run-up that we saw in november strategy raised 17 billion dollars of capital by selling atm

1053
01:22:25,644 --> 01:22:30,764
there's a significant increase of energy that was coming into the strategy stock and now we're

1054
01:22:30,764 --> 01:22:36,684
talking about strategy potentially getting included in the s p 500 with a market cap as like one of

1055
01:22:36,684 --> 01:22:42,924
the top 100 companies this is this is a monumental potential inclusion in the s p 500 prior to

1056
01:22:44,524 --> 01:22:50,464
So when Tesla was added to the S&P 500, when they first qualified, they were a $300 billion company.

1057
01:22:50,724 --> 01:22:53,284
And then when they got added, they were a $600 billion company.

1058
01:22:53,284 --> 01:22:56,604
And that was like two quarters.

1059
01:22:57,024 --> 01:23:05,604
In two quarters, Tesla went from $300 billion to $600 billion from when they first qualified by having positive earnings for four quarters in a row to when they were actually added.

1060
01:23:06,044 --> 01:23:11,584
And then from there, it went from $6 billion to like $1.3 trillion, just an absolute monster tear in a year.

1061
01:23:11,584 --> 01:23:19,864
and it's largely due to significant front running of the S&P 500. When everybody knows that they

1062
01:23:19,864 --> 01:23:25,164
qualify for the S&P 500, it gets pretty hard to exclude them from the S&P 500. The narrative

1063
01:23:25,164 --> 01:23:29,744
continues to build and they've got to get past the committee. But I think this is a very similar

1064
01:23:29,744 --> 01:23:34,944
situation where it's going to be really hard to ignore a company that has a monumental earnings

1065
01:23:34,944 --> 01:23:40,164
blowout period. Jeff, can you pull up the chart that you opened the video with?

1066
01:23:41,584 --> 01:23:46,184
Oh, yeah. The trading view.

1067
01:23:47,964 --> 01:23:48,124
Yeah.

1068
01:23:51,544 --> 01:23:52,024
Yeah.

1069
01:23:53,784 --> 01:23:54,584
There it is.

1070
01:23:56,064 --> 01:24:03,064
Very simply put, the S&P 500 needs strategy more than strategy needs the S&P 500.

1071
01:24:04,744 --> 01:24:07,044
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

1072
01:24:07,044 --> 01:24:12,524
So what this is showing, and this is year to date, this is MSTR is up 26.7%.

1073
01:24:12,524 --> 01:24:20,044
And this is Mag7, Microsoft, Meta, Apple, Google, Amazon, NVIDIA, Tesla, all down 5% to 25%.

1074
01:24:20,624 --> 01:24:26,004
So yeah, it's one of these things that S&P 500 needs strategy.

1075
01:24:26,184 --> 01:24:27,884
Strategy doesn't need the S&P 500.

1076
01:24:28,244 --> 01:24:30,704
It's one of the things that it could just continue to run without it.

1077
01:24:32,084 --> 01:24:32,524
Yep.

1078
01:24:32,524 --> 01:24:51,896
Well I think we aimed for an hour and we sitting in an hour and a half We should probably say final thoughts and rip out of here I know we got a lot of work to do We got to prepare for our keynotes and get things going But no MSDR True North next week We are obviously going to be at Strategy World We have a lot

1079
01:24:51,896 --> 01:24:56,436
of content and information to talk about. So we'll catch you back two weeks from now for MSDR True

1080
01:24:56,436 --> 01:25:03,456
North episode 26. And I'm sure we'll have plenty to talk about. And we will also, in the meantime,

1081
01:25:03,456 --> 01:25:09,616
at some point talk about 21 uh the new entrance in the market and um and maybe we should start doing

1082
01:25:10,176 --> 01:25:13,536
multiple podcasts a week i mean it might make sense to do it at some point

1083
01:25:15,296 --> 01:25:20,016
i don't know next week we'll see yeah let's get through next week we'll uh we'll get some

1084
01:25:20,016 --> 01:25:25,136
market feedback and we'll go with that uh all right uh final thoughts maybe i'll kick it over

1085
01:25:25,136 --> 01:25:30,656
to you adrian uh final thoughts final thoughts pump for orlando oh i know i said this last week

1086
01:25:30,656 --> 01:25:36,176
jeff but if i had i would have never thought that posting a dream on green meme would lead to all

1087
01:25:36,176 --> 01:25:42,576
this when we first started talking about um strategy so seeing where we where we what were

1088
01:25:42,576 --> 01:25:48,336
and where we are and think about where we can go i have nothing but excitement looking forward to

1089
01:25:48,336 --> 01:25:54,336
next week i'm looking forward to strategy world looking forward to true north world um debating

1090
01:25:54,336 --> 01:26:00,256
on what days of the week i'm going to wear orange tie that's that's something i gotta consider um

1091
01:26:00,656 --> 01:26:02,956
I don't know if I'm going to wear shorts to the event.

1092
01:26:03,116 --> 01:26:03,336
I might.

1093
01:26:03,416 --> 01:26:03,856
I might not.

1094
01:26:03,956 --> 01:26:04,976
We'll see how it's going to work.

1095
01:26:05,516 --> 01:26:09,536
But, yeah, I think that it's going to be great.

1096
01:26:09,776 --> 01:26:21,656
I think that the fact that we are just guys that are actual investors, we're not some big hedge fund, we're not some corporate entity that has come into this space and just made a name for themselves.

1097
01:26:21,656 --> 01:26:26,236
We actually did this organically, speaks volumes for everything that we've done.

1098
01:26:26,376 --> 01:26:27,696
So this is really exciting.

1099
01:26:27,796 --> 01:26:29,136
I'm really looking forward to the event next week.

1100
01:26:31,456 --> 01:26:36,096
awesome thanks adrian over to you dan yeah thanks for supporting us guys uh looking forward to

1101
01:26:36,096 --> 01:26:41,216
meeting everyone who shows up next week and uh see you all in the future if not next week at vegas

1102
01:26:41,216 --> 01:26:42,816
and some other event in the future

1103
01:26:45,296 --> 01:26:49,856
bingo mason over to you um watch the earnings call tomorrow i think

1104
01:26:52,096 --> 01:26:56,656
everyone yeah everyone has gone progressively better and it's kind of like a sailor podcast so

1105
01:26:56,656 --> 01:26:58,476
So don't miss it.

1106
01:26:58,836 --> 01:27:04,036
And if you have questions, ask a question on X.

1107
01:27:04,216 --> 01:27:05,136
Start a dialogue.

1108
01:27:07,256 --> 01:27:09,896
And don't – no, go ahead, Dan.

1109
01:27:11,056 --> 01:27:11,856
I'm sorry, Mason.

1110
01:27:11,876 --> 01:27:12,296
I interrupted.

1111
01:27:12,416 --> 01:27:12,636
Go ahead.

1112
01:27:12,936 --> 01:27:13,636
No, it's good.

1113
01:27:13,636 --> 01:27:15,976
No, I'm just – I'm excited for Orlando.

1114
01:27:17,996 --> 01:27:22,256
Final thought, MSTR True North, we'd make a killer basketball team.

1115
01:27:22,536 --> 01:27:23,796
We have some hype, man.

1116
01:27:24,076 --> 01:27:24,916
We have some hype.

1117
01:27:24,916 --> 01:27:27,076
And I know Grain would be a great coach.

1118
01:27:27,136 --> 01:27:29,116
He'd be all about fundamentals, right?

1119
01:27:30,296 --> 01:27:31,596
We'd have maybe.

1120
01:27:32,016 --> 01:27:32,816
We'd be drawn to play.

1121
01:27:33,996 --> 01:27:34,396
Yeah.

1122
01:27:34,956 --> 01:27:36,296
I appreciate that.

1123
01:27:36,476 --> 01:27:37,896
I'll be on the sidelines.

1124
01:27:38,056 --> 01:27:38,216
Yeah.

1125
01:27:38,616 --> 01:27:39,396
Come on, move on.

1126
01:27:39,396 --> 01:27:41,976
I played hockey, so I'm going to be the water boy.

1127
01:27:42,276 --> 01:27:44,416
But maybe a good three-on-three team.

1128
01:27:46,136 --> 01:27:47,816
Yeah, we got some hype for sure.

1129
01:27:48,716 --> 01:27:49,436
Over to you, Grain.

1130
01:27:50,556 --> 01:27:50,956
Yeah.

1131
01:27:50,956 --> 01:27:55,876
look, if somebody would have said to me six months ago that this would happen,

1132
01:27:56,036 --> 01:27:58,116
I would be like, yeah, I guess that's possible.

1133
01:27:58,296 --> 01:28:00,656
So even for me, as Mason said, also,

1134
01:28:00,696 --> 01:28:03,876
when you go to these events and meet people firsthand, it is really,

1135
01:28:03,976 --> 01:28:06,116
it's really awesome. I really appreciate that.

1136
01:28:06,396 --> 01:28:08,676
So I'm looking forward to meeting everybody on,

1137
01:28:08,876 --> 01:28:11,896
we're going to get there on Sunday to do set up. So we'll be pretty busy.

1138
01:28:12,176 --> 01:28:14,476
But from that perspective, I'm looking forward to meeting everybody.

1139
01:28:14,476 --> 01:28:16,196
We're going to be ready to go first thing on Monday.

1140
01:28:16,836 --> 01:28:19,096
If you have any questions, just shoot it into Twitter.

1141
01:28:19,196 --> 01:28:20,416
We'll do the best we can answer that.

1142
01:28:20,416 --> 01:28:23,396
the people that are there, you will be able to track us down and find us.

1143
01:28:23,496 --> 01:28:24,756
I will not be wearing a helmet.

1144
01:28:25,376 --> 01:28:30,776
So you'll have to see if you can track me down by my voice and hear me speak.

1145
01:28:31,116 --> 01:28:32,716
But I really can't wait for Monday.

1146
01:28:32,816 --> 01:28:34,296
I think it's really going to be something special.

1147
01:28:34,916 --> 01:28:40,856
And we keep on getting, whether it's our sponsors or the attendees that are talking about it,

1148
01:28:41,016 --> 01:28:42,396
I think it would be a great event.

1149
01:28:43,916 --> 01:28:44,476
Thanks, Green.

1150
01:28:44,536 --> 01:28:45,056
Over to you, Tim.

1151
01:28:45,056 --> 01:28:53,956
yeah i don't think i can say enough how excited i am and all of us are for next week um if you

1152
01:28:53,956 --> 01:29:01,776
have any doubt in your mind about whether you should wear like you know but come as you are

1153
01:29:01,776 --> 01:29:09,556
be comfortable right but if uh you're looking at it from like a professional standpoint if you're

1154
01:29:09,556 --> 01:29:14,896
looking to network if you're looking to you know really represent yourself the way you want to

1155
01:29:14,896 --> 01:29:20,676
represent yourself. There's going to be a lot of people in the room that you've probably heard of

1156
01:29:20,676 --> 01:29:26,516
and not just people related to strategy, like people in the industry. There's going to be a

1157
01:29:26,516 --> 01:29:34,176
lot of industry people there. So I would say dress to impress and just dress the way that

1158
01:29:34,176 --> 01:29:42,736
you would want to represent yourself if you're going to meet the CEO of Bitcoin Inc or whatever,

1159
01:29:42,736 --> 01:29:50,856
right all these people um you know whoever you you know think is like someone that you would

1160
01:29:50,856 --> 01:29:56,176
think is interesting to meet um and please come up and say hi to us right we're in this weird

1161
01:29:56,176 --> 01:30:03,856
position where like i don't know who joe is but like i want to meet everybody like you guys are

1162
01:30:03,856 --> 01:30:09,376
the reason that we're doing this like it's about the community so super excited and uh thanks

1163
01:30:09,376 --> 01:30:14,856
everybody for all the support, sponsors, attendees, everybody, everybody in the chat, right? Really,

1164
01:30:14,996 --> 01:30:21,816
really appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks, Tim. You said it. Everybody's nailed it. And, you know,

1165
01:30:21,896 --> 01:30:28,116
a big shout out to everybody in the community. The world of investing and, you know, group think

1166
01:30:28,116 --> 01:30:35,416
is completely changing in front of our eyes. And this is the future of stock investing. It's going

1167
01:30:35,416 --> 01:30:42,856
be decentralized information and education and we're at the forefront. I think we are materially

1168
01:30:42,856 --> 01:30:51,496
early. So yeah, thank you to all the sponsors. Looking forward to meeting a bunch of people at

1169
01:30:51,496 --> 01:30:56,056
MSTR True North World and Strategy World and it's going to be a lot of fun. Don't be shy

1170
01:30:56,056 --> 01:31:00,856
and we will see you in a couple of weeks. Watch the earnings call tomorrow. A lot of education

1171
01:31:00,856 --> 01:31:08,376
happens in the earnings calls. And we're watching Michael Jordan in his prime here. This is sailor

1172
01:31:08,376 --> 01:31:18,056
at his total peak, just raising capital. This is a financial icon that everybody's going to look

1173
01:31:18,056 --> 01:31:25,176
back on. It's like watching Steve Jobs at the beginning of his career, just continue to tear

1174
01:31:25,176 --> 01:31:34,056
it up in the financial market. So thank you everyone. 32,359 viewers. Whoa. Appreciate

1175
01:31:34,056 --> 01:31:39,336
the time. And we'll see you in a couple of weeks, if not next week. Take it easy.