Welcome in to This Week in Bitcoin, Episode 69.
My name is Chris, chrislas.com, jupiterbroadcasting.com.
Well, back to our regularly scheduled news program.
I hope you enjoyed my chat with Moritz from Albie in Episode 68.
But clearly, the smell of hobium and FOMO is in the air this week, and I'll get to that.
But before I do, I want to start with some news that broke just a little bit after I published last week's episode.
And this news is going to open Bitcoin to a $9 trillion market.
A new way to invest?
401ks usually invest in stocks and bonds, but now they have new options.
A new order signed by President Trump would clear the way for your retirement plans to invest in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
A proposal offering high reward, but maybe even higher risk.
Our business and tech reporter, Scott Budman, breaks it all down for us.
It's long been known as a safe place to put your money.
But thanks to a new executive order from President Trump, your 401k plan could soon get more racy.
These are obviously risky endeavors.
Like everything, there's a component of risk.
Any investment comes with risk.
But the new plan would let you put not for the faint of heart assets like cryptocurrency, private equity and real estate in your retirement plan.
Signer Joss Holdings is one of a small number of firms that lets you do that now.
You can clearly hear a bit of slant in the coverage here.
And I think what everybody kind of misses is these are particular assets that are hopefully going to help people protect against inflation.
Inflation. Oh, boy.
inflation because i think the trump administration knows what's coming at least money printing and
money printing means you're going to need places to put this that will be protected from debasement
their goal empower investors to go and challenge their financial advisors and tell them i get that
i'm investing and i have a you know sound and safe investment strategy but why don't we take 10 to 20
percent of them of our portfolio and invest it into these alternative assets and take some risk
But is crypto in your long-term retirement account a good idea? We're talking about something we hope grows for decades, so it might catch on among crypto-curious younger employees.
If I had to imagine the companies that might be earlier to add this, it's going to be companies with younger workforces.
That kind of checks out, right? It's going to be some tech companies and things like this.
In fact, I would expect most financial advisors are going to strongly recommend you don't do this.
You know, they're going to steer people away from this, just like they have over the last decade.
But some will continue to make their own self-directed choices like some Bitcoiners have, and they're going to outperform all those TradFi investors.
I mean, this is simple.
You just look at the math.
It's simple.
But, you know, it doesn't go into their formulas.
It doesn't fit into their spreadsheet where they can calculate the return over 20 years and kind of give you an estimate.
So it scares them. They know it goes up in price. They know that.
But we also want to talk about crypto here. Bitcoin at fresh all time highs, similar to what we're seeing in the stock market, Danny.
And as you might expect, these crypto equities, Circle, Coinbase also rallying very hard to start this week.
Yeah, they are again, as you say, Bitcoin up there at all time highs.
institutional investors corporate treasury they are all adding to their exposure year to date we're
up just under 30 percent you know when the bitcoin price is up the haters can't help but just scratch
up bad news this is a trend i've been watching accelerate over the last couple of months
and the attacks are a little bit different this time they seem to be centering around what i found
to be four common themes and i think you're going to hear it more from more more and more from no
coiner normies that are scared of the volatility or whatever it might be. And this is coming from
places that a lot of people that are really unexposed to all of this are watching. So they're
kind of fresh to the topic. And it's coming down to like the local news and the morning news
programs. Like, for example, CBS recently had a piece that was on their Sunday morning program,
and they called it the crypto craze sweeping the nation and Wall Street.
What's become practically a way of life for some is downright cryptic to many others.
So what's behind cryptocurrency, digital money?
Jolene Kent sums it all up.
So they go back to Bitcoin Conference 2025, which was in May.
35,000 Bitcoin enthusiasts who descended on Sin City this spring.
What happened in Vegas hardly stayed in Vegas.
This is Bitcoin 2025, the biggest ever gathering of its kind.
If you want digital drama, stick around this conference.
Between the high rollers.
Your goal is to get to own at least one Bitcoin because by the time you retire, that can be worth 20, 30 millions.
And the true believers.
You can't change the buy. It changes you. Same is true of Bitcoin.
Everyone seemed to agree on one thing.
President Donald Trump's re-election has been like hitting the jackpot.
Ah, there we go. It took them just under a minute to make it political.
And this is intentional. There's a lot of ways you could frame this, a lot of lenses you could use, as they say.
But they'll come back to the political narrative over and over again.
And I'm here today to say loud and clear, with President Trump, crypto finally has a champion and an ally in the White House.
Once dismissed by investors and still baffling to many Americans,
cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin have won over supporters from Wall Street to Washington.
You know, I have to wonder as I listen to this, and I'd like you to ponder on this as well.
What if the Democrats had wised up to the crypto voter
and also the money that that industry was willing to spend
and had made a couple of concessions?
Not even maybe all the concessions the Trump administration has made, but became, quote unquote, friendly. And let's just say just while we're playing this out, what if they had won? What if Harris had won and she had a pro-crypto administration? How would the media spin that? Do you think that they would tie it to politics like this? Do you think they would focus on that aspect quite as much? I have to be honest with you. I don't think they would.
I think if the Harris administration had run on a pro-crypto platform and had won, the media would be covering it, but they wouldn't be connecting it to political influence as much.
Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin have won over supporters from Wall Street to Washington.
In July, the president signed the Genius Act, which opens the door for companies including Walmart and Amazon to issue their own digital currencies.
The emerging digital asset ecosystem.
And Congress is debating another bill that, for the first time, aims to regulate cryptocurrency trading.
Bernie Marino is looking out for Ohio.
This after the industry spent more than $167 million on behalf of crypto-friendly candidates ahead of last year's election.
How should people think of crypto?
Is it like gold?
Is it a stock?
is it a Beanie Baby or maybe a Labubu?
So the media always has to go to their skeptical expert
and they go to Amanda Fitcher.
She spells Fitcher with a C in it, which is disgusting.
She was the chief of staff to Gary Gensler at the SEC.
She was the lead advisor to Gary.
She, according to the SEC, worked with the commission staff
on, quote, all aspects of the agency's mission,
including rulemaking and policy, enforcement, strategy,
personnel, management, operations, communications, and legislative affairs.
Of course, Gary's SEC was famous for prosecuting more than a dozen crypto companies.
I think it might have even been more than 30.
So this is his right-hand gal.
This is who the CBS Sunday Morning Program goes to to find out if crypto is like a beanie baby.
Or maybe a labubu?
You could think of it as gambling.
You could think of it as a collectible.
You could think of it as a type of investment.
But I think what's important to understand is that crypto is highly volatile.
It's highly speculative.
Amanda Fisher served as a top official in the Securities and Exchange Commission under President Biden.
Crypto is often marketed to individuals as an investment opportunity that will yield them the possibility of great returns.
But unlike, say, a stock, which represents a part of ownership of a company, it is not backed by any sort of business that is producing goods and services.
Ah, there's no cash flow, bro.
There's no cash flow is the go-to number one critique right now by quote unquote economists or policymakers in the know.
And it's the wrong category for Bitcoin.
They're categorizing it wrong, so they're setting the wrong expectations.
Bitcoin isn't a business. It's a commodity. So expecting Bitcoin to generate profits is like
asking gold for a quarterly earnings report. Its value comes from properties, not profits.
Do you understand? Commodities store value because of their scarcity or their durability,
or they have some sort of universal demand, not because they make something. Bitcoin's properties,
which are, you could say, maybe fixed supply, its portability, its divisibility,
those types of things that network that gives it value just like gold has its traits that give it
value cash flow comes from the usage of bitcoin or the usage of gold gold doesn't pay dividends
gold doesn't have a cash flow people still trade store and value gold and they have for a very long
time bitcoin's cash flow exists in the ecosystem built around it so the exchanges mining payments
selling your Bitcoin, not from Bitcoin itself. And unlike gold, Bitcoin can move around the globe
in minutes. It's easy to verify, unlike gold, and can be stored securely without having to have a
warehouse. So it has a lot of advantages over gold besides just that. So if you're criticizing
Bitcoin for not being a business, that's like criticizing a wrench for not being a screwdriver.
It's just not designed for that job. She doesn't understand it. You can't criticize Bitcoin for
not generating cash flow. It's like asking gold for a paycheck. It's a commodity, not a company.
It's a commodity, not a company. One more time. Bitcoin is a commodity, not a company. It doesn't
print cash. It protects cash. It shields you from currency debasement. You understand?
That's the difference. The fact that it doesn't have an owner or a board or employees that can
screw-up is a benefit.
And I don't understand how they can,
they know about gold.
They know about real estate.
Clearly, she probably owns lots of real estate.
No doubt about that.
But she doesn't understand it about Bitcoin.
Services?
Unlike hard currencies like the dollar or the euro,
cryptocurrencies only exist online.
Ugh.
Did they really just call the dollar a hard currency?
Did that really just happen?
Unlike hard currencies like the dollar or the euro,
cryptocurrencies only exist online.
Somehow the dollar is a hard currency.
I mean, this is the world, right?
They're measuring the system from within the system.
You know what else is only online?
Your dollars.
Your bank account is a number on your screen,
especially if you get auto deposit.
Stocks.
The shares exist in digital ledgers,
not in like a drawer in your desk.
How about domain names?
There's entire businesses built on domain names.
Those just live in a database.
Netflix.
Spotify.
Purely digital. Billions of revenue. Social media accounts. There are influencers who make
millions of dollars online. All those followers, digital. They all count as businesses. Your photos,
your precious memories that you never touch physically anymore, digital. Points on your
credit card, airline miles, digital. The bottom line is we get it. We understand there is things
that are digital that have extreme value. We already live that way today. This is not some
sort of massive shift that people need to make. Bitcoin just happens to be the first digital
commodity. But you know, the dollar is the hard currency here. Unlike hard currencies like the
dollar or the euro, cryptocurrencies only exist online and are issued by individuals and companies,
not central banks. And yet billions of dollars worth of crypto are traded every day.
The number of scams, the types of scams, the sophistication of scams are so rife and plentiful
that the capacity to lose your money in a crypto investment is substantially higher than if you're
just investing in stocks. Let's talk about these scams that are plentiful. I think when people
talk about how cryptocurrency and Bitcoin is only used for scams, there's a simple three-word
response. Blockchains, receipts, forever. Blockchains equal receipts, forever. Or maybe
four. Blockchains, receipts are forever. Every transaction is in public. It's permanent,
it's traceable, and the tools only get better and better. So the reality is criminals prefer cash
or privacy coins if they can make it work. And we've covered the data before,
This is a myth that the data just doesn't back up.
Studies from multiple blockchain analytics firms show that illicit activity is a tiny, tiny, less than 1% use of Bitcoin.
Now, recently, stablecoins, especially USDT, Tether, they have picked up in illicit transactions.
But it's because they want something that's the dollar.
And I don't enjoy saying this, but law enforcement loves an online ledger.
They can use blockchain data to track and bust criminals, sometimes with some really sketchy connections.
Bitcoin's transparency turns crime into an open book.
If you transact on Bitcoin, it's out there and you need to be aware of that.
And it just sort of deflates this whole scam narrative.
It really is the worst tool for the job.
Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, obviously.
But it is the worst tool for the job.
This argument is so, it's like the third, right?
She's going through a list here.
She's got one, two. She's going down a list of classic arguments that are getting new life.
During the Biden administration, the SEC cracked down on the cryptocurrency industry.
The Trump administration has changed course, dismissing the largest outstanding cases, which Fisher says leaves consumers more vulnerable.
We are seeing leaders in crypto say we want to be regulated.
And there is legislation currently here in Washington underway to regulate cryptocurrency They say they want laws passed They want laws that they write to be passed So the legislation currently being considered in Washington D is written by and for the
crypto industry. I looked into this before we get to David Bailey. The legislative authors were
members of Congress. The bill's development did involve consultation with the digital assets
industry, lawyers, and some academics. So I think, you know, you could argue that the genius bill was
influenced by industry. I think you could make that argument like she is. Or you could argue
that stable coins are a very complicated topic and Congress critters needed consulting with people
who knew what the hell they're talking about. Would you rather the tech experts in Congress
wrote all of this stuff on their own?
I mean, would you?
Right?
And David Bailey says,
not the case.
Of course he's going to say that.
Wish that was the case.
That'd be fantastic.
But no, it's not true.
David Bailey runs the Bitcoin Conference
and is CEO of a Bitcoin holding company
called Nakamoto.
He's one of many crypto entrepreneurs
who now call Puerto Rico home.
It started because of the taxes.
Now it's like the place to do business.
But the 34-year-old's real claim to fame might be his role in convincing a skeptical President Trump.
Bitcoin just seems like a scam.
To go all in on Bitcoin during the 2024 campaign.
I want to thank David Bailey for inviting me, special guy.
What did you tell President Trump to get him into crypto?
So first off, no one convinces the president of anything.
He makes up his own mind about things.
A lot of people, especially in Washington, have missed how big this has gotten.
We're watching mainstream history and lore around civilization's adoption of Bitcoin be written right now.
And so we made the case to the president about how many people hold this asset.
He saw the opportunity that was here by embracing this industry.
And I think we had a big part of swinging the election in his direction.
The Federal Reserve says only 8% of Americans have bought or held cryptocurrency in the last year.
They reported to the IRS.
And only 2% have ever used it to buy anything.
But digital assets are increasingly part of the economy.
Soon you'll be able to use crypto as collateral for a mortgage.
And this past week, the president signed an executive order to make it easier to hold cryptocurrency in your 401k.
All the attention has helped drive the price of Bitcoin to an all-time high,
recently passing $120,000 each.
How much was Bitcoin when you first bought it?
So Bitcoin was about $10.
How much Bitcoin did you buy back then?
Well, you know, that's something I'm not going to talk about on camera.
There's only one answer.
Not enough.
That's the answer.
Just put it like that, not enough.
And as crypto's fortunes have improved, so have the president's.
The WorldWB financial token sale is now live.
CBS News estimates that crypto ventures controlled by the Trump family
have made up to $765 million in revenue from token sales since the fall of 2024.
The White House did not respond to questions about the token sales,
but in a statement told CBS News,
neither the president nor his family have ever engaged or will ever engage in conflicts of
interest. Most experts in government ethics believe the situation is unprecedented.
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the president has changed his position on Bitcoin
and crypto because he can personally benefit from it or his family can?
No, absolutely not. I don't think he embraced this industry to enrich himself. I think that
he just sees the same potential that I see. When you get excited about an idea,
you feel compelled to do something about it.
And that potential is why investors are betting that crypto will soon become part of everyday life.
We want our fellow Americans to know that crypto and digital assets,
and particularly Bitcoin, are part of the mainstream economy and are here to stay.
But for Amanda Fisher, that's a gamble just not worth taking.
We got to make sure we end it on a sour note, right?
Because so far, Amanda has told us it's not really an investment.
You should be investing in stocks and bonds.
Of course, Fisher doesn't really care that Bitcoin has been the best performing asset for the last 10 years.
It's gone up about almost 27,000 percent over the last decade.
Okay?
27,000.
As of right now, when I checked before the show, 26,931%.
Gold, in that same time frame, achieved 126% return.
U.S. Treasuries, five and ten year, returned about 157%, 157%, and 87%, respectively.
The S&P returned about 193% in the same time period.
193% on the S&P.
So she goes on about how risky it is and how dangerous it is.
But when you zoom out, it's been the best investment over 10 years.
And when you zoom in, let's zoom in.
Let's go to just the last 12 months.
When priced in Bitcoin, the S&P 500 has underperformed for the last 12 months.
If you price it in Bitcoin.
Now, everybody's going on about how the stock market's doing so great.
But if you price it in Bitcoin, it's down.
Now, yeah, in dollars, it's up.
It's up in dollars.
In USD terms, it's up.
But in Bitcoin terms, it's down 42.6% in the last 12 months.
So the no-coiner Joes out there that listen to this advice, they're getting screwed.
They're getting absolutely screwed because I don't see, for the last 10 years, a better bet.
I don't see a better bet.
But of course, we can't end on a positive note.
So we got to bring Fitcher back in so she can spook us a little bit about crypto.
We heard the same thing about subprime mortgages going into 2008.
We heard the same thing about complex financial derivatives going into the last crisis too.
These products are wonderful and they're ways to extract so much value in wealth until they're not.
And I fear that crypto is going to follow down the same path.
Things are going great many times until they're not.
This is a wild comparison comparing it to subprime mortgages and 2008 derivatives.
that's bonkers because those were claims on debt that collapsed when borrowers defaulted.
Bitcoin's not a liability. It's an asset with no counterparty risk. It's the solution to that
problem. So to compare it to the 2008 toxic loan products that were misunderstood and opaque,
even by the people creating them, to Bitcoin, which has a fixed supply and issuance schedule,
public open source rules, verifiable, which are enforced by the nodes, not bankers,
It's it's as 180 to that example as you could possibly get.
Right. Right. Because the deal with the subprime stuff, as you might recall, back in 2008, they were hiding toxic debt, as they called it.
They were bundling. You can't do that with Bitcoin.
And I just it's wild that this gal was the head right hand man gal to Gary Gensler.
I mean, no wonder the SEC was just such a mess.
They don't understand what they were ruling over.
It's really something to compare it to the subprime toxic debt has to be the worst criticism I've ever heard of Bitcoin.
What a massive, massive disservice to CBS's viewers.
Now, where I do see more risk than I would like to see, and to be clear, I'm a pretty risk-tolerant guy, I think.
But what's coming is even too risky for my blood.
There's this mix of central bankers lowering rates.
It's expected the Fed will lower rates in September here in the U.S.
They're already lowering it all over the West.
M2 money supply is climbing.
We're going to see all kinds of things pump when all this comes together.
and even altcoins with really shaky narratives are going to run.
And there's going to be these treasury companies that load up on Sol and Ethereum.
There will inevitably be some sort of large market drawdown
because all of these coins are tied to liquidity.
They're all liquidity absorbers.
Bitcoin pumps when there's liquidity in the market.
Bitcoin stalls out when liquidity gets sucked out of the market.
We've been talking about that for the last couple of years.
That's even more true for altcoins.
They live and die on any little bit of liquidity changes.
And so if the market has a drawdown, the first thing they do, the very first thing they do within seconds is they risk off.
And these ETH bags and SOL bags are going to drop like rocks.
We just saw a mini version of this in the last week.
And we have all of these companies piling in.
I'm concerned about Bitcoin treasury companies in this regard, but I'm downright alarmed about the lunacy of Ethereum treasury companies.
And this is where I see a lot of risk that's going to do brand damage and trust damage, which will blow back on Bitcoin because nobody out there in the world seems to be able to keep crypto and Bitcoin separate.
So here's what I'm talking about.
Here's why I'm all worked up.
I want to present you a couple of ETH bag holders that really seem to have recognized their window of opportunity.
Here's Joe Lube, and he's the co-founder of Ethereum.
I've played him once before on the show.
You might remember he co-founded ConsenSys in 2015.
ConsenSys makes its money off of fees and metamath swaps and staking, as well as dumping their bags of ETH onto the public to fund their operations.
He's not a great public speaker, but he is one of the few ETH bulls that gets on TV right now.
And he's bringing a classic back.
Talk about the flipping where Ether will eclipse the monetary base size of Bitcoin.
Some people think that'll never happen.
Some people think that'll take a few years.
I think we may see astonishing things in the next year or so,
especially with these treasury companies driving things.
So we've got some ETH bulls on CNBC pumping that Ethereum is going to flip Bitcoin.
And you better go out there and buy it while you can get it for so cheap,
because it's going to just blow up in price.
I don't know how they have the hoobers to bring this back.
I mean, this used to be the narrative
before Ethereum absolutely got sloshed
for the last few years by Bitcoin.
I mean, just absolutely sloshed.
And now that it's been pumping since the Genius bill passed,
they're walking around like they're the kings of the farm.
It's just pathetic.
And I had to figure out why.
And this is where I think the risk comes from,
is if people buy into this narrative,
which currently really is only coming from about two people,
but it will spread.
These things do spread.
I think it's going to present extreme risk
if these companies snap up a bunch of ETH.
Now, I said there was two people.
It's all about selling the potential,
and they have to tag team this problem.
So for that, we're going to go to our second ETH bowl
that people actually listen to.
That is your buddy Tom Lee,
and he seems to have dreams about becoming Ethereum's next Michael Saylor.
so maybe we should be calling him Tom Lee Saylor.
And Tom Lee Saylor says that there's a lot of potential in ETH.
You're just not understanding it.
And to understand it, we have to appreciate how Tom found Bitcoin
and realized Bitcoin was digital gold.
We noticed Bitcoin, like, because I was at Jay Morgan,
was like $100 when I left in 2014.
And we talked about it in 2012.
And then suddenly it was like $1,000.
I was like, whoa.
This is Tom on the Bankless podcast, which I'll link in the show notes.
You know, it's $100 billion. I've never seen anything go to $100 billion that didn't have something behind it. So at Fundstrat, we spent several months trying to understand Bitcoin, and I never fully understood it, but I found that it was driven by two very too explainable things.
I find it really interesting that he just says right here, I never fully understood it. I never really fully understood it. He admits it right there. He understands that it's scarce and that it has a network effect. But beyond that, he never really understood it.
that didn't have something behind it.
So at Fundstrat, we spent several months
trying to understand Bitcoin.
And I never fully understood it,
but I found that it was driven by two,
very two explainable things.
One is that it was 97% of that move of Bitcoin
from 100 to 1,000 was the number of wallets
and the activity per wallet.
I mean, basically a network value effect.
And we could simply say,
in the next couple of years,
if more people use Bitcoin,
it's going to go up exponentially again. So we thought it would reach by 2022, 25,000,
but it could even go to 100,000 if it got to 5 to 10% of the value of gold. So we started to really
push that story as Wall Street needs to understand Bitcoin because it's digital gold.
And this, I think, is kind of the problem with the, quote, digital gold narrative.
It's only part of Bitcoin's use case. And if you can only wrap your head around that,
you could easily undervalue Bitcoin.
And so if Bitcoin is digital gold in Tom Lee Saylor's world,
then Wall Street is likely to look for Ethereum
for the coming token revolution
where we're going to tokenize real world assets in the stock market.
Tom Lee thinks that Wall Street will want something like Ethereum
because of its uptime?
Because Ethereum's been kind of a dormant chain.
People wanted faster networks, you know, or more novel ways to do essentially validation.
But Ethereum's had zero downtime.
That is what matters to Wall Street.
Zero downtime in 10 years.
So I think that Wall Street has already decided Ethereum is the chain they're going to build Wall Street onto.
I don't know.
I mean, you know what else has zero downtime is an Oracle database cluster.
So if Wall Street is looking for that,
then they're really looking for a tech platform.
That's what I think.
And when these companies actually start to use this stuff,
after they deploy their first couple of products,
they're going to fall into a pattern
that we see over and over again.
Competition will increase.
And then these companies will also realize
they need to control their own chain
for safety reasons and whatnot
as they have to comply with more and more regulations.
And of course, they're going to have to compete
on speed and costs.
And fundamentally, they need to extract as much rent as possible from the entire process.
And the reality is, they could just do it with a SQL backend that has a EVM-compatible front-end API.
And then they could extract a lot of revenue from it.
So I'm not exactly sure I buy this.
In fact looking into it this week Circle launched their own Level 1 called ARK which is an EVM network with USDC as its native gas token ARK testnet is actually expected to launch this fall So if Circle is going to use their own L1
and it looks like others are also considering
their own L1 for their stable coins,
I'm not sure I'm buying this.
I don't think this is,
I think it's short-term it pumps Ethereum
as companies experiment with these products.
But long-term, they just fall into these natural patterns
over and over again.
So yes, uptime's a factor,
but having worked inside companies,
helping them pick the infrastructure they run on,
revenue extraction is a much bigger factor,
and they can get to uptime over time.
But if we accept Tom Saylor Lee's underlying narrative
for Ethereum treasuries
that Wall Street's going to build stablecoins on Ethereum,
I'm just not buying that.
I'm not buying that overall narrative.
It just seems ridiculous.
They're all going to issue their own stablecoin layer ones.
But Tom, Saylor Lee, thinks that maybe I am missing one really big factor.
In fact, this factor is so huge, it will make Bitcoin less valuable than Ethereum.
Ethereum will flip Bitcoin in value and become worth more than whatever Bitcoin's future potential might be because it's one factor.
Hitting it spot on is just like Bitcoin in 2017.
Wall Street is not professionally convinced Ethereum is even a surviving chain because
there was some fair criticisms and, you know, and it did move to proof of stake.
And there might have been too much ETH out there for a bit of time.
But before the clip starts, Tom's making the point that one of the reasons why he's
bullish on Ethereum is because there are still skeptics on Wall Street.
And when there's still skepticism out there, that means the opportunity is larger.
Surviving chain because there was some fair criticisms and, you know, and it did move
to proof of stake. And there might have been too much ETH out there for a bit of time,
but it's being fixed. And there's still skepticism that Wall Street going onto ETH,
they're even going to stake ETH or even use ETH. Everyone's kind of more, there are probably more
people who think that it's a layer two story and nothing benefits the layer one. And I think that
that's what's going to be shattered. And when it does, it'll be a step function. So I think the
upside case for ETH is actually higher than, let's say, Bitcoin did 100x, you know, could
Ethereum do 100x?
I mean, Joe Lubin sort of has that kind of upside in his mind.
Joe Lubin would be the Ethereum co-founder that got himself on the CNBC that I played
earlier.
So I'm actually kind of amazed Tom comes out and says this because he really just screwed
the pooch on the bet.
If people pay attention, he's essentially saying it's him and the Ethereum co-founder
that are the people behind this whole Ethereum could be a treasury strategy narrative.
I mean, that undercuts it so strongly that it's basically these two just pumping that
entire narrative and he just comes out and says it.
Case for ETH is actually higher than, let's say, Bitcoin did 100x.
You know, could Ethereum do 100x?
I mean, Joe Lubin sort of has that kind of upside in his mind, you know, because Joe
and I are in dialogue.
I mean, we are really partners in trying to push ETH as a treasury, as a digital infrastructure.
Wow. He just killed the play.
If this were to get clipped and spread around Wall Street investors, he just says the entire idea is basically me and Joe Lubin and we're the ones out there talking about.
It's really remarkable, right?
Because the difference with the Bitcoin treasury strategy companies is Saylor just went out and did it.
And he did it for two plus years before anybody else copied him.
And now we're seeing other people try to copy the model.
It's a get out there and do it.
And then the proof is in the pudding.
The proof is in the results.
The proof of work.
Where here, they're trying to fiat create the idea.
They're basically doing proof of stake.
They're pre-mining the idea that this is a great treasury idea.
They're not just proving it.
See what I'm saying?
It's incredible that he's just admitting it.
I think that that's what's going to be shattered.
And when it does, it'll be a step function.
So I think the upside case for ETH is actually higher than, let's say, Bitcoin did 100x.
You know, could Ethereum do 100x?
I mean, Joe Lubin sort of has that kind of upside in his mind, you know, because Joe
and I are in dialogue.
I mean, we are really partners in trying to push ETH as a treasury, as a digital infrastructure.
And I think that that could happen because there is probably a non, a significant probability that Ethereum could flip Bitcoin as well.
So this is bonkers. This is really bonkers.
So these two are pushing this Ethereum as a treasury strategy narrative, which means you appreciate the risk.
It's not that it's a proven sound idea.
It's that two semi-trusted voices, especially Tom in this space, are putting their brand, their identity, their weight, their recommendation behind the idea and pushing it that way.
It's an entirely different beast.
And I think the risk factor here is way higher.
Could happen because there is probably a non, a significant probability that Ethereum could flip Bitcoin as well in terms of network value.
Right. And then so then if you're, you know, someone thinks Bitcoin's at a million, then imagine what it means for Ethereum, because it is not just Wall Street financializing onto blockchain, but it's it's AI.
But it's also part of the U.S. focus on AI dominance. Right. Ethereum plays a strategic role there.
What? I guess I kind of hear this all the time these days.
AI is going to be huge for Ethereum or huge for Bitcoin.
And here we have Tom Saylor-Lee saying he thinks the use case is so huge for AI with
Ethereum that it's going to flip Bitcoin in market value.
And make no mistake, Tom understands the use case for a store of value in the face of
unprecedented debasement.
And he still thinks AI use case is some sort of uber-bolisher for Ethereum.
And that, to me, seems extremely risky because it's really pinned on that AI narrative.
plus these two guys convincing the market that they should hold this asset in their treasury.
And of course, when it blows up, when the next market dip happens,
it could completely scuttle the idea of treasury companies.
It could damage and tarnish the brand of Bitcoin because the stuff always blows back on Bitcoin.
So I have to ask, do you see any use cases for AI and crypto,
like some sort of automatic agent payments,
or you spin up an agent and it needs to make a payment, so you give it a wallet?
Why wouldn't you just connect it to like a pre-funded account that you used your credit
card for?
Is this just investors looking for dots to connect or is there some sort of AI use case
here that I'm not seeing or not yet seeing?
Because it seems like the huge part of the narrative for Ethereum is pinned on this being
a ginormous use case, bolstered by the fact that the US is viewing this as strategically
important.
So therefore, Ethereum will become strategically important.
He doesn't say that part out loud, but that's the implication. And this to me is the risk. I don't know what you think, but I think this makes Ethereum a bigger and bigger risk to Bitcoin's network adoption over the long haul.
Maybe I'm overreacting.
Boost and let me know.
Is there an AI use case for crypto?
And am I overreacting at the risk that Ethereum and Ethereum treasure companies will pose to Bitcoin?
Because in my mind, they're going to go from annoying altcoins that like to just affinity scam to outright undermining the progress that Bitcoin has made in adoption over the last year and change.
all right coming up your boosts lots of updates some more news for sure final clip of the week
and more so i'll just mention you can support this here production by doing what you're already doing
if you want to buy and stack sats on river maybe take advantage of their 3.8 sat savings account
we've got a link to river i think it's one of the best ways in the u.s to stack sats if you're all
about that self-custody you're in canadia or in the u.s the bitcoin well an amazing automatic
self-custody platform if you're ready to spend sats you got them in a lightning wall you want
to convert them from sats to a gift card in just minutes no login required or just use your lightning
credentials well that's the bitcoin company it's all they do that's all they do the bitcoin company
link to them in the show notes fold card i stack my sats when i pay my bills when i buy gas and all
that kind of stuff i'm using the fold card they just had a great quarter too the community loves
Link in the show notes.
Last but not least, you can access some of that liquidity without selling your Bitcoin.
That's salt lending.
Link to that in the show notes.
All services I use, no direct relationship, but I like them a lot.
And if you use our links, you support the show.
And we have some great boosts this week.
This will be a collection for episode 67 and 68 because I published them back to back.
And we had a ton of great support.
And we start with our baller booster this week, who is Mr. Satsquatch.
Hey, rich lobster!
Coming in with 120,000 sats!
Satsquatch writes, yo, Chris.
Greetings from the secret Thousand Oaks meetup.
Special greetings from Diesel Jeff and Pizza Chief.
Pizza chief. Well, pizza chief. Nice to meet you as the mayor of Milktown. It's nice to meet you. And yo, Thousand Oaks meetup. It's a secret. It's a secret. Fun will now commence.
Some jaw-dropping moments this week in your pithy macro analysis.
Just my two no-coiner millennial kids now that when I die, I hope to give them my Bitcoin.
It occurred to me to start a dialogue with them on the nature of value prop of Bitcoin.
So I started the conversation with a mini overview primer email.
My biggest fear is they just cash it in for fiat and never catch the vision.
Thanks, man.
Yeah, I feel that.
My kids are teenagers just entering teen years.
And I've been working them for years.
I'm trying to understand the value of Bitcoin.
because I very much intend to leave them my stash
and I also would hate it if they sold it, you know,
because exponentially the gains for them will continue.
So that's a great point.
It's very hard to get people to appreciate digital scarcity at first.
One of the attacks that I often take is photos.
You know, people really, really, really value some of their photos,
but you can make infinite copies of your digital photos.
Bitcoin is really the first thing that came along
that we can't make infinite digital copies of,
but is natively digital.
And you can kind of start there
for I think millennials and younger
because they kind of get that digital,
you know, native stuff.
Good luck.
I'd love to hear how that goes,
Satsquanch.
I think that's a very,
very worthwhile endeavor.
And thank you for the boost.
Really appreciate that baller support.
You, sir.
You, sir, are a baller this week.
Make it so.
You make it so.
Make it.
Make it so.
Blackhost also comes in
with a fantastic 100,000 sats.
I hoard that which your kind covets.
Hey, rich lobster!
Boy, they are doing a lot with mayo these days.
Black Host writes, no message, just pure value.
Wow, fantastic, sir. Thank you.
Thank you for that boost.
Ghost Def comes in with 80,000 sets. Can you believe it?
That is incredible.
It's pretty funny. Next caller.
He's a good guy.
He's a real good guy.
80,000 sats.
Woo!
I never post any messages online.
I retracted from social media over a decade ago as my personal protest against the ad-first internet.
I don't use podcasting apps.
I don't use any podcasting apps because I prefer not to stream media.
So I archive the MP3s from your RSS feed to a server, and then I run scripts to sync them to my phone to listen offline.
All this is to say, it took me a lot to create a fountain account and post this message.
Yes, sir.
Thank you.
thank you appreciate that yeah so i've listened to all the jb podcasts religiously for years but
i've never given you value back i love bitcoin love linux i love self-hosting and i'm a massive
fan of your work so here's some love back p.s eventually i plan to self-host a bitcoin node
and lightning bolt but need to find the right time around family and work boosting from the uk
wow ghost dev that's incredible i mean you you really you really do have to step a whole through
a whole set of hoops that you probably have avoided for a very long time. I really appreciate
that. Also, we don't see a lot of support from the UK. We see some, and I'm grateful for it,
but we don't see a lot. So also props to you for that. And as you know, as you listen to all my
stuff, I do very much think it's worth building a little self-hosted Bitcoin setup. Even if you
don't keep it forever, although running a node is pretty low effort, but even if you don't keep it
forever, it's extremely educational. I think it's an equivalent to you can be a Linux user,
and then you try something like Arch Linux
and you understand Linux at a whole new level
of how it's actually put together.
And I think it's the same for Bitcoin
when you do the Bitcoin node
and the Lightning Wallet and stuff like that.
I think that's a great endeavor.
Thank you for the boost
and thank you for doing all that work.
Hope to hear from you again
now that you got it all plumbed up and all that.
A-Train's here with 40,000 sats.
Thank you for helping us help you help us all.
Yes, indeed.
Appreciate that.
A-Train says, thanks for the value.
Catching up on a few episodes.
Happy to report I got my Umbral home up and running
with Knott's and LB Hub.
I'm working on Lightning now.
Can you speak to any security issues hosting a node?
I feel like I'm a target now having this on my home network.
I know I still have a lot to learn,
but anything you can share in that arena would be helpful.
Cheers, A-Train.
I also was a bit on Kumski's about opening up the node ports
on my firewall for my homeland,
where I also have things like Home Assistant, right, and whatnot.
So my solution, A-Train, although it is a bit technical,
we did do an episode of Linux Unplugged on this
if you search around notes.jupiterbroadcasting.com.
My solution was I set up a tailscale mesh network
between a Linode VPS and my node.
I would probably use Nebula or Netbird now,
but the key thing is a mesh VPN network.
And then I have on my node, I have everything I want running,
And all the administrative ports can only be accessed from the local LAN IP.
But like the Lightning stuff and the Bitcoin node ports,
all of those get forwarded from my VPS running on Linode.
Because on my VPS in Linode, I have an Nginx server that's accepting those connections
and forwarding them over my Tailnet IP my mesh VPN network to my node The end effect is I essentially have a VPS front end that forwards all of the Bitcoin and Lightning related network traffic to a node that running on my private LAN And I don ever have
to expose my private LAN IP. I know that sounds a bit complicated. All in all, it's actually not
too bad. And we did do an episode on it you could search around for. But it's a good endeavor. And
I wouldn't over, over analyze the problem because I also have ran nodes for years on my home internet
without even opening ports and things have been fine.
In regards to Lightning, you may have better luck
if you do have the ports open,
but you could also put it on the Tor network
and avoid it altogether.
So it is a concern, but I don't think it's like,
you know, at a one to five, I think it's like a three.
You know what I mean?
And for me, I value learning a little bit higher,
but you could also always do something like a DMZ
or something like that.
And I would love, love, love, love,
if anybody out there would like to boost in
with how they run a note at home,
but keep their homeland secure.
Boost that into me, and I would love to relay,
because I think that's a conversation we should get rolling.
Thanks, A-Train.
Nice to hear from you.
Thanks for catching up on the shows, too.
Block 7's here with 25,000 sats.
Cheap boost, huh?
Well, thank you.
It just says cheap boost.
Well, I appreciate that.
That's my kind of cheap.
Thank you, Block 7.
Blazer 4151.
Blazer, am I saying that right?
with 4,321 sets.
Well worth the time every Thursday.
It's how I know the weekend is approaching.
Thanks for the high quality pod.
Yeah, good.
I try to get it out in time for the routine.
So I'm glad that works for you, Blazer.
Nice to hear from you.
One dull geeks here with 10,642 sets.
It's over 9,000!
As a PNRI, which was an older investor
that's near retirement age, right?
not all of us are stuck in the fiat mindset i personally am i personally am all in on bitcoin
until i actually retire it's my long-term savings it's also my checking my paycheck goes directly to
bitcoin oh man we're not beholden to our generational ideas and it is each our responsibility
it's each of our responsibilities to question our assumptions which fed my orange pill amen to that
one doll yeah i had to really dance around that and i don't think i did a good enough job because
what I was talking about in episode 67 was if you are of a certain age, then you have
existed during a certain period of financial conditions.
And it's not, you're not investing this way because you're a boomer, right?
It's just that you lived through a certain period of time.
And so you may be naturally inclined to view the system in a certain way because it's always
been that way your whole life, just like I will when I get to that point and like I do
now.
But like you say, not everybody is stuck in those ways of thinking.
So well done. Getting the paycheck in Bitcoin is a bold move. He says, also, Bitcoin is already an index of human incentive is maybe the most insightful thing I've heard in a while. I'm shamelessly stealing that. Please do. I really believe it. I really do think that's the case.
He says, but I think you misunderstood the FIRE movement. They're not trying to get a 25x return. They're trying to reduce their spending so that having a nest egg that is 25x, their annual spending, is easier. And then living a lifestyle that allows them to withdraw 1 25th, about 4% every year. The growth they need to sustain that is merely to match inflation. They don't need to 25x that.
yeah unless it's the pandemic you know you're right i mean looking at priced in gold it looks
like on average you know somewhere around eight or nine percent per year is the true inflation rate
and you'd want to so i guess it'd be nice to outdo that so that way you have some profit right so
you're not just treading water so it's not definitely not 25x you're right i just i think
it was how they presented it i misunderstood it but i really like that boost thank you one doll
Geek, nice to hear from you. Hello there is there with a row of ducks. No message, just the sats.
Appreciate that. And John BRT or John's BRT is here with 5,000 sats. Everything's under control.
Thank you for putting together a fantastic show every week. Hey, John, thank you for sending a
little value my way. That means a lot. Appreciate that. PJ is here with 6,666 sats. The traders love
the vol. You're always pushing new tech. Thanks for taking the hit and learning the pitfalls. Oh,
talking about using LNURL for the boost, yeah.
I'm sure Fountain will get things worked out,
especially with you and this community here to push the limits.
Yeah, I had a great chat with the Fountain team.
They're taking it seriously.
They're looking at a way to do it that brings on everybody,
including apps like Castomatic that don't even have a back end,
so that way they can participate as well.
Thank you, PJ.
Hey, Tone's here with 4,444 sets.
That's a big old duck.
Ah, fuck!
The greater fool theory just kills me.
Someone decides to store value by hanging on to something
with good monetary properties.
Over time, he does better than someone
holding onto something with worse monetary properties.
Other people follow suit,
and the good money obtains monetary premium
and goes up in value.
This doesn't require anybody to be fooled
about the nature of money.
It would be foolish to not adopt better money.
Hey, hey, yes.
Well said.
I completely agree.
He's a good guy.
He's a real good guy.
No, he's a great guy.
They're not measuring it in the right context.
or not. That's some insightful stuff there,
Aiton. Thank you. Hey, Gene Bean's also
here with an Aflac boost.
4,444 sats.
Oh, he's given us an update
on his Umbral node. He says, it's fine,
but I think somehow this switch to NOS
or an update in general
might have caused me to reach the limit of my
Raspberry Pi. I've had to turn off
ElectRS for now to keep my node
from falling behind. I've enjoyed
the interview, but for sure felt that it would be
out of place as a regular episode of Twib,
But now as one of the specials, it absolutely fits.
Keep up the good work, Chris.
Thank you, Gene.
Yeah, I really am a huge fan of AlbiHub.
And I just really want to do more to help people adopt it.
I think it's incredible what they're putting out there.
So to have a chance to catch up with them,
I wanted to get the whole chat out there.
Glad to hear your Umbral node is doing well.
And I wonder, Gene, if in a few weeks,
if that usage settles down,
although I think it's been a couple of weeks by now, right?
I have not heard anyone reporting that, like,
knots or anything like that uses more resources.
Maybe keep us posted on that.
So Keyless comes in with 5,000 sats.
You're doing a good job.
What are your thoughts on the Nerdax for mining at home?
What's the best way to get started with something like this?
So these are really cool.
They're little homemade mining units that look rad.
They don't, you know, they don't really have a lot of hash power,
but there's something reasonable you can run in your home
off of a regular old outlet.
and we do hear stories of people
that every now and then mine a solo block.
I want one.
I do, Zach.
I want one.
Every time I go think about buying one,
I then ask myself,
why don't I just buy sats with that money?
You know?
But then I tell myself,
well, I'd be contributing to the network,
blah, blah, blah.
So I basically get stuck on this fence
and I haven't pulled the trigger.
I should have just bought the sats.
It would have cost me a couple of months ago
when I first started thinking about it.
Anybody out there has a nerd axe,
NerdQX, I think is actually how you say it.
And they have a couple of different editions.
Let me know how it's working.
Let me know what edition you have.
Great question, Zach.
And now I have a little bit of FOMO.
Thanks for boosting in.
Everything Satoshi is here with 2,100 sets.
Let's hear it, good buddy.
AlbiHub is the greatest node implementation.
Also, LND had a vulnerability that could have obliterated the entire network
through DDoSing them with gossip messages.
This vulnerability has lingered for years.
I say this because LND is like 90% of the Lightning Network.
This is why I shill AlbiHub and LDK node.
Yes, there are a couple of different node implementations.
Some of them are getting a little more traction than others.
LND got an early start, and they are pretty good about issuing updates.
But if you're running a Lightning node,
much like a Bitcoin node, although not as frequently,
you will want to be able to update it from time to time.
And Albi takes care of that for you.
Thanks, everything, Satoshi. Nice to hear from you.
Ace Ackerman's here with a Rodex.
orange man 401k boost yeah you saw the news right that's great coming in hot with the boost i i mean
i would have taken a bet if i had a 401k i'd probably take advantage of it right
so it's nice to see i'm sure not everybody will but for those that want to i think it's really
good to see thanks ace nice to hear from you okay groovy's here with 5 000 sats this is the way no
message just the boost which i appreciate kiwi bitcoin guides here with 4567 sats tough little
ship little thanks again for the solid signal wow a lot of action in the comments for this episode
i've taken you a nostril with some audio clips of the tornado cache oh and oh man oh i wish i
would have seen that i was bad on my social media game this week oh man i would have used that the
Journals covering in the Rage and Frank from the Bitcoin magazine.
Onwards.
Yes.
Thank you.
Man, I wish I would have seen that.
I appreciate that boost, though.
Please, Kiwi.
I'll try to remember that.
I would really appreciate audio and stuff like that.
Great boost, too.
Gin from Batiks here with 2,000 sats.
I like you.
You're a hot ticket.
Hey, Chris.
Albie is great, but to set up a node easily without hardware for tinkering,
I found the Rizful.
I found Rizful.
R-I-Z-F-U-L.
They offer vaults where you can customize your Lightning address, something like something at Rizful.com.
It's the guy behind the Megalith node that created Rizful, a fun way to learn about Lightning and tinker with it.
Oh, I'll have to check that out.
Also, you know, AlbiHub offers AlbiHub Cloud, which is encrypted to your unlock key.
And it's a pretty neat system.
So they also, if you don't want to run a node at home, they will host one for you.
Something to consider.
I appreciate that boost.
Thank you.
Hey, Chad F is here with $2,433.
Yes, sir.
30, sir, sir, sir.
The issue with other apps just switching to LNURL is it requires more server load,
and apps like Castomatic, they only run on device.
So what can they do?
Fountain isn't the only game in town,
and there are other apps that have been doing this value-for-value-lighting thing before them,
and they shouldn't be left behind.
They all use Albi, and it's been great,
but now with AlbiHub Switch, we need an alternative for new users that is just dead simple.
Something like CoinOS, but doesn't do Keysend.
but that doesn't do key sends, so here we are.
It's also broken with podcasting and wallets,
but this also involves music, audiobooks,
and everything else PC 2.0 wants to put in the RSS feed.
Thanks for bringing this to more ears.
Chris and Albie have been nothing but great to DIYers
this entire time.
I love Albie Go and its notifications.
It is the fastest way to pay lightning invoices,
and it's great to see if your Albie hub is on
because Albie Go won't connect if it's offline.
They said, I enjoyed the updates from Moritz.
Extremely bullish on Albie and have been
since Podcasting 2.0 added them years ago.
Great boost, Chad.
Nice to hear from you.
Yeah, I think we are now at a point in the conversation
where metadata that works for more apps is being discussed
and Cast-O-Matic specifically was mentioned.
So the downside was I missed some boosts
and it didn't work great
and we lost some messages a few weeks ago for the show.
The upside is I think we have sparked
a very productive conversation
in the Podcasting 2.0 community
and if it results in something that works across apps,
I will gladly take that hit to have played my role,
my very small role in getting that conversation going.
Thanks, Chad.
Nice to hear from you.
40 Deuce is here with 2,000 sats.
Here's some feedback on the subscription for Fountain.
I didn't subscribe for Early Access yet,
and now the episode is no longer tagged as Early Access,
but I'm unable to listen to it.
It just says I have to subscribe.
But I, oh, he says,
it looks like the message gets downloaded.
I had to delete it from my library
and then manually search for the episode
and re-add it to my library to listen.
The subscribe for early access message wasn't automatically replaced in my library when the full episode became available for everyone.
Okay, I'll pass this on to them.
Sounds like a little bit of a UI glitch there on how it displays it.
40 deuce.
Thank you for telling me about that.
We are definitely trying things out for the first time.
I'm also planning to figure out a seamless way to integrate the bonus content for Jupiter Party members that subscribe to Jupiter Party.
So there's still a lot of moving pieces.
And sometimes I take on too many things at once.
but I hope to kind of get it all kind of snorted out in the next couple of weeks.
Thank you for the boost, 40 Deuce, and Halleck is here with 9001 sats.
Hey, Chris, I'm one of those that did come from Bitcoin via fire.
Hey, all right.
I literally read the entire Mr. Money Mustache blog.
He says, rip, rest in peace, Google reader.
Yeah, yeah, man.
I think you're right that they are largely our allies.
They believe in frugality and the Trinity study
and the safe withdrawal rates
based on historic stock market performance.
Obviously, they think they'll do well
to diversify into Bitcoin directly.
Obviously, I think they would do well
to diversify into Bitcoin directly,
but the index funds will bring them along indirectly anyway.
That is very true.
That's very true for everybody, actually, isn't it, Alec?
That's sort of a sneaky thing.
Thank you. I appreciate that insight.
It's good to hear from you.
I figured it'd be like peanut butter and jelly.
Jordan Bravo's here with a row of ducks
boosting in to say that the interview and discussion on AlbiHub
was great. More content like that, please.
Yeah, I think you'll see more interviews
as released as bonus episodes
that become available to everybody
and that kind of stuff. I'm glad you liked it. I appreciate that signal,
Jordan. It helps me, you know, plan future content.
User 17 came in with
2,050 sats,
which, probably not a message.
But he says, hey Chris,
you probably don't remember me, but I used to go by Cardnerd.
Or Cardnerd? Like Cardona Nerd?
Thanks to you and the Bitcoin dad,
I'm reformed and working on building
an envelope style budgeting app
built on Lightning and Noster.
Thank you for everything.
Well, that's cool.
Thanks for the update.
You do need to go into Fountain
and update your profile name
because right now you're coming in
as anonymous user 17988669,
which is cool,
but it doesn't give the shout out
you're probably looking for.
Thank you everybody who boosted in.
I see some of you boosting below
the 2000 set cutoff this week.
to test your nodes like SaltyCran and DebitCoiners.eu.
Okay.
A couple of you testing.
Another test in here.
Homelab Hoddle testing his node this week.
Look at you guys boosting me to test your self-hosted nodes.
I'd like to see you setting up nodes.
That's good to see.
Thank you, everybody.
This did span two episodes, so it is a real banger this week,
and I'm super excited.
Let's go through it.
We had 37 of you stream SATs.
I'm sorry, 45 of you stream SATs.
With that, we stacked from just the SATs streaming alone,
104,809 SATs.
Thank you, SAT streamers.
Big lift this week.
Really awesome.
When you combine it with our boosters across the last two episodes,
we had 73 people participate in the value-for-value boost system,
And we stacked a grand total of 551,685 sats for these last two episodes.
Thank you, everyone who supports the show, either with a membership, a Jupiter Party subscription or a boost.
It is a value for value production, and I am trying my hardest to make it work with no advertisers, just support from the audience.
I think that does give us the best recipe for a Bitcoin news podcast.
And this was a real banger. Really appreciated everybody.
And the signal has been received.
and I will continue on
as the This Week in Bitcoin podcast
is just, just getting close
to 100 episodes, you guys.
Can you believe it?
We're almost to 70.
Blows my mind.
And I really appreciate the support
from all of you to get us here.
Would not be this far without you.
Well, let's talk about Roman Storm.
I'm still following this story, and I think there will be future developments,
but he was found guilty of unlicensed money transmission conspiracy.
That is criminal code section 1960 in the U.S.
The judge noted that many possible appeal avenues exist.
There's up to five years in prison if the appeal fails.
This is extremely disappointing because of the precedent that I think it sets,
but it's not as bad as it could have been.
The co-founder of Tornado Cash was found guilty on only one count, conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money transmitter business.
One of the ones I was the most concerned about, but one of many possible counts.
Now, Storm and his defense vow to fight this sole conviction.
They say that there will be an appeal.
Of course, this isn't really a Bitcoin story, but it is an open source precedent story.
So I'm going to watch the appeal to continue to track this to see where it goes and see if the precedent set here is used in the other case.
one that is a little more closer to home to bitcoin the samurai wallet founders also pled
guilty and agreed to a 237 million dollar forfeiture it claimed that over 100 million
dollars was laundered from dark web markets for online fraud and they're going to forfeiture 237
million plus 6.4 million immediately in instant payment before sentencing sentencing dates have
been set for november 6th and november 7th for rodriguez and hill respectively no appeals are
allowed at this time if the sentences are greater than 60 months. So that's something we'll be
watching for. Hill was arrested in Portugal and then exergeted to the U.S. earlier this year.
That was also something that's a bit noteworthy. And this has been part of a broader crackdown
on mixers in general. So this and the Tornado Cash trial are two very closely watched trials.
And the Samurai Wallet one is closer to us Bitcoiners. So if you've got any good audio
or clips on this or resources sent in my way.
I'm collecting and I am watching.
Another update.
Bo Hines, executive director of the White House Crypto Council,
is stepping down.
And you may recall I was criticizing Bo recently
for not coming forward with how much Bitcoin
the federal government is currently holding.
How much Bitcoin does the federal government have?
I can't discuss that right now.
Come on, give us a ballpark.
I can't.
Is it going to be made public?
There are several reasons in which we're not disclosing that at this time.
There might be a time in which we do.
But what I will say is, you know, we want as much as we can possibly get.
And that's what I continue to say.
And we're going to continue to work on that.
That doesn't sound like they have a lot.
And Bo has left, perhaps before the bad news comes out.
Probably going to go get himself in private industry and make a bunch of money from however
the federal government acquires that Bitcoin, if they do.
Monero seems to have experienced a 51% attack this week.
A group known as Cubic overtook Monero's hash rate in a live 51% takeover demo,
sort of like a PR stunt, really.
It was on August 11th through the 12th.
The Cubic blockchain claimed to have gained 51% control,
and it does seem to be true.
The team behind Cubic,
they bill it as a high-performance Layer 1 blockchain
that uses proof of work
that somehow solves the trilemma of all blockchains.
They used their, quote,
useful proof of work model to redirect miners towards Monero,
attracting them with higher rewards.
They executed a six-blockchain reorganization,
orphaning about 60 blocks and rewriting recent transaction history on the Monero blockchain.
They described it as a demonstration of their technology, not a malicious takeover.
Monero's price, XMR, dropped around 17% in 24 hours, falling to about $245,
with over $500 million in market value lost.
Exchanges like Binance and Kraken temporarily froze XMR withdrawals during the chaos.
Some small miners suffered, with orphan blocks leading to lost rewards,
and some shutting down operations, perhaps temporarily.
But no major double spends or fake transactions were reported,
and Qubik halted after a period of time.
Community response has been interesting.
Monero supporters launched a DDoS attack on Qubik's systems,
reducing their hash rate from 50% to about 14% in about 72 hours,
which is when they kind of threw in the towel.
They rallied with campaigns like hashtag save XMR on social media and they tried to switch to decentralized pools like P2 Pool Now there are possible changes to Monero developers are exploring like hybrid proof and proof consensus
which is a massive change,
or longer confirmation times, but also a pretty big change,
but might have prevented this attack.
Now, it seems that the core privacy features of Monero remain intact,
but the incident has shaken trust
and, of course, sparked debates about proof-of-work's long-term security
if there isn't enough hardware securing the network.
that is rough for Monero.
You know, and I saw some Monero,
what are we going to do if Monero's under attack
and it's wrecked?
What are we going to do?
You need to go look into Lightning and Liquid
and eCash, friends.
There's other options out there,
but what a wild one to see happen.
I mean, if you have any insights,
if you're a Monero user
and you know any more than I do,
please boost in and share it with us.
Now, how about this one?
I'm going to play a clip from 2018.
It's a Harvard economist.
His name's Kenneth.
And he was convinced that Bitcoin was more likely going to go to $100 than $100,000.
Ken, let me ask you about something else that you have had strong opinions on in the past, which is Bitcoin.
Back then in October, you were talking about the price bubble collapsing.
Looking at the level right now, it's trading around $11,300 today.
Have we seen the bottom or is that collapse still coming?
And in fact, if that is what you expect, what do you think will be the trigger?
Oh, I think Bitcoin will be worth a tiny fraction of what it is now if we're headed out 10 years from now.
It's basically if you take away the possibility of money laundering, tax evasion, its actual uses as a transactions vehicle are very small.
Some of the bit.
Oh, not so not so accurate.
It's just interesting that some of these have not changed, even though the data proves it to be wrong.
and also it requires hand-waving away the fact that cash is exponentially used more for this type of stuff.
Like, oh yeah, well, of course, yeah.
Tax evasion, its actual uses as a transactions vehicle are very small.
Some of the Bitcoin advocates say, well, it's beautiful.
People will hold it because it's beautiful.
I think that's nonsense.
So the trigger, of course, is going to be regulation, but it's not going to happen overnight.
It really needs to be global regulation.
This used to be a common thing. I mean, even until just, you know, six months ago, that Bitcoin would be destroyed by regulation. Oh, yeah, it might be successful, but the governments will never allow it.
If the U.S. cracks down on it and China cracks down, but Japan doesn't, people will be able to still launder money through Japan.
But I don't think it's going to go to zero because I think there'll be rogue nations who feel outside the global financial system, not invested in it, that will still accept it.
But I would see $100 as being a lot more likely than $100,000 10 years from now.
$100 more likely than $100,000.
Well, you know, this week, Harvard announced that they have acquired and now hodl over $100 million in the Bitcoin ETF.
They bought at over $100,000 in price.
So you really do get Bitcoin at the price you deserve.
So from saying that it would be less than $100 in 10 years to now buying it at over $100,000, there is some sweet, sweet schooling in that.
All right, it's time for our final clip of the week.
And I felt like we should give it to Natalie Brunel.
She really earned it this week.
Sometimes I'm a little skeptical.
You know, she has like Novogratz on her podcast and lets them say a lot of ridiculous stuff.
But then she goes out there and she puts such a good face into such a good spokesperson for Bitcoin that I can't help but just be so damn impressed.
Not only that, but the patience that this gal has for these news actors that even after years of her going on there and simply and slowly explaining it to them, they still don't get it.
Even though their entire job is the financial markets, she still sits there and calmly and rationally explains it to them in a way that they just simply can't argue.
And for that, that makes her our final clip of the week.
And I look at crypto and AI, Natalie, in the same vein to a certain degree.
These are things that President Biden and his administration were shying away from, whereas President Trump is saying they're not going anywhere.
I want us to be number one.
This industry is no longer fringe.
It is foundational.
We are really reimagining how value is stored and also moved in the 21st century.
And what I'm most happy about is that the White House is actually recognizing that the most important innovation in crypto is Bitcoin.
It is the core asset in this new monetary system.
So there she goes.
She's done a good job of now taking the conversation away from crypto to Bitcoin and then underscoring that by saying the White House has said there's a difference between crypto and Bitcoin.
And they're recognizing things like the essential need
for the ability to self because that is so in line with the American value of property rights And the White House report on digital assets this week also said that the government is looking at
plans to accumulate Bitcoin. They even mentioned a term that we have in the Bitcoin space called
stacking sats, which is slowly accumulating Bitcoin, not thinking about the daily price moves,
but slowly accumulating a meaningful amount to serve strategically in our reserve.
Quick before I get to everybody else on this, because you are the expert.
When it comes to the Trump administration and its strategy, the more ubiquitous Bitcoin comes with respect to its usage out there, does it become less likely that the government or the central bank would ever look to make Bitcoin, you know, its strategic, its currency in that way?
Do the are the two things separate?
If it becomes mainstream in the way that it is, then you won't use it in that way.
Or can they coexist?
If we get another president like Joe Biden, can they come back and say, you know what, we're going to get rid of the dollar?
That was such a mess of a question. So I think it was something like if Bitcoin becomes really popular, is it less likely that central banks will use it? And then she like hard shifted to, well, what if we get another administration and they don't like it? It was a mess of two questions. I honestly, if I was in that position, the counter is going down. You've got just a few seconds left. The lights are on. The mics are on. The TV cameras are going. You're live on the air. And this news actor craps this out in front of you.
Like, personally, in that moment, I'm not sure what I would say.
I hope I would come up with an answer.
But there's no question there.
There's nothing there to respond to.
And yet, somehow, Natalie crushes it.
Are the two things separate?
If it becomes mainstream in the way that it is, then you won't use it in that way?
Or can they coexist?
If we get another president like Joe Biden, can they come back and say, you know what?
We're going to get rid of the dollar.
I think we have crossed an inflection point.
I think Bitcoin is here to stay and it will be a strategic reserve asset for the country and it does not threaten the U.S. dollar.
In fact, they're prioritizing stable coins right now because they want to extend dollar dominance and provide us with more demand for U.S.
Treasury debt because these stable coins have to be backed one one to one with cash reserves or short term treasuries.
That's going to extend the dollar globally.
And those stable coins have really helped a lot of people in other nations that face far worse currency crises and far worse inflation that we have here in America.
But Bitcoin is going to be that pristine savings technology and capital that corporations are looking at to put on the balance sheet to strengthen against the debasement that we know is going to come.
We know they're going to have to print.
We know that the deficits are going to continue.
And so Bitcoin is the one thing immune to that.
It's the one thing no one can print.
Wow.
I cannot believe she got to there from whatever that question was.
That was really impressive.
But now this is where the patience factor comes in.
I talk to you all the time.
We talk to you.
We ask you questions.
We learn.
I got to say, and I'm embarrassed to say, but I'll be honest with everybody, Gary, I still don't really understand it.
So if I really don't understand it, it's hard to get in as an investment.
But yet I watch it just keep moving higher and higher and higher.
You smell that FOMO?
Smells like FOMO, boys.
And I'm thinking to myself, if there is not an aspect of my portfolio that's invested in crypto in some way, I am losing out.
You just took the words right out of my mouth.
I have been saying since day one, I don't understand.
And I don't know what the meaning of it is.
All I can tell you is as an asset, the price has just been going up.
It's cool, dude.
It's not your job.
You're not expected to understand how this stuff works and then communicate it to your
viewers.
So, you know, at the end of the day, after you get done talking to people, just go home
and don't Google anything.
Don't look it up.
Don't watch a YouTube video.
Don't listen to a podcast.
Don't read the white paper.
Just ignore it completely.
And then for years, just go on there and talk about how you don't understand it.
That's all you got to do.
One, I don't understand. I don't know what the meaning of it is. All I can tell you is as an
asset, the price has just been going up, up and up. Yeah, it had a 75% drop in the last bear market.
I'm thinking that's it. It's over and right back. But I do worry the next bear market in the NASDAQ
that it's going to come down because it is an asset and the fear and greed factor. What I don't
understand when I hear, I think it's Saylor that says it's going to 13 million in price.
These are the things I don't understand. But look, I've watched you on TV for a while
with big smile on your face and you've been right as rain. I can't argue the point. I never argue
against price. Can I just say two things? Number one, Bitcoin priced in the S&P 500. The S&P is
down 85% priced in Bitcoin. You're super early. That down 85% priced in Bitcoin is since 2020.
right? I mean, it's really remarkable when you price the S&P at Bitcoin and you zoom out a little
bit. It doesn't look good. I just say two things. Number one, Bitcoin priced in the S&P 500,
the S&P is down 85% priced in Bitcoin. You're super early. We're all very early to Bitcoin.
And I say that because it is a $2 trillion market cap competing with equities, bonds, gold,
real estate, which are hundreds of trillions of dollars of wealth. If we just reached 20 trillion,
which is gold, that's over a million dollars per Bitcoin.
But there's no earnings, no sales, no product, no service.
That a feature not a bug Look at the tariffs Ryan No chairman of the Fed no CEO no earnings 30 seconds Ryan You winning
Time to check in on the state of the network before I get out of here.
Wrapping up at block height, $909,884. The current Bitcoin to USD price is $121,840.
The sats per dollar right now is clocking at 821 sats to one U.S. dollar.
We are just down 1.1% from the all-time high, which was $123,180.
That was on July 14th, 2025.
Our difficulty retarget date is now set for August 22nd, 2025, currently estimated at a downward adjustment of negative 5.4%.
There are 23,416 nodes reachable on the network, and I have a feeling there's a few more coming online soon.
I'd like to see that just creep up.
Knots flirting with 16%.
Currently measured at 15.7%, 3,687 Knots nodes on the network.
Only exceeded by Core 28.1 and Core 29.0.
It'll be interesting to see how Core 30 does when it comes out soon on that list.
Looking across the Bitcoin network stats, everything looks really great.
The strength of the Bitcoin network is mighty strong.
Links to what I talked about are at This Week in Bitcoin.show.
My goal is to give you a show that doesn't get distracted by the emotions or the hype,
but really focuses on the signal and the details, the data,
and then conveys that to you in a way that you can properly digest.
Boosted and let me know how I did.
I also would love to get a boost for anything I missed you'd like me to cover
or any additional details or background you have on a story I talked about.
I'm really happy to say that it looks like we have our Value for Value track support back,
so I get to wrap this show up with a Value for Value song.
I think this is perhaps one of the absolute best demonstrations of Bitcoin,
the Lightning Network, microtransactions, and how people use Bitcoin for all kinds of things.
So if you boost in while this track is playing, magic wallet switching technology will kick in,
and 95% of your sats will go to the artist.
And this week, I'm going to feature someone that is a personal Value for Value track OG artist for me.
Somebody who's played some of my favorite tracks, and he's got a new one.
And I got to get these summer songs in while I still can.
This is Ollie, and it is Lost Summer.
Find peace, find woosah
Daydreaming how to grow the money moot law
My girl was talking last night
But some other things
All I heard was hippity-dippity hoopla
Wearing all my OJs
I came a long way
A legend in my city
But I never got the praise
A lot of people hiding from themselves
They afraid
But I can't give a
What anybody say
I just do me
You know the flow rare
When I'm on a red beat
I never needed AI lyrics to compete
Nah
I was born with this heat
Yeah
I never needed AI lyrics to compete, nah
I was born with his feet, yeah
I was too
I always been an underdog, always been a leader
I be too lull, I be way too Derek Jeter
I never took a penny, not a dollar for a future
Cause I don't want the money, I want something much deeper
No, this is not a race, this is not a hundred meter
I caught up by the chain, caught up by the two-seater
You think you hot now, but retirement is sweeter
A lot of rappers ending up as one of my greeters
They bought into the hype, bought into the hype
Configured in a post, but not in real life
Becoming someone else that they ain't even like
It's more about the image than lyrics that you write
That ain't even right, not right, not right
Still remember when I started driving under Starlites
All them days in the studio and all them non-flights
I'm just talking to myself, but I do it with a mic
This my ADHD's new anthem
I'm young, rich, and handsome
I'm addicted to the music, I never stop
Mind games, I'm just paying my ransom
Leave a message at the beep, I'ma make a bop
I know them heads turn every time that I drop
Y'all can say whatever about me, lil' homie
But I'ma end up on top
Y'all can say whatever about me, lil' homie
But you know, I'ma end up on top
Thank you.