1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,160
Welcome in to This Week in Bitcoin, episode 67.

2
00:00:15,580 --> 00:00:20,740
My name is Chris, chrislas.com and jupiterbroadcasting.com is where you can find me.

3
00:00:21,340 --> 00:00:25,860
Huge things are happening with Bitcoin this week, just under the surface.

4
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,680
That's the kind of stuff I love to talk about.

5
00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:33,640
So before we dig into all of that, I want to start us up with a little bit of follow-up from last week's episode.

6
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,200
I think that's going to get us going in the right direction this week.

7
00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:42,140
So last episode, I had just reviewed a preview of the White House's digital assets report.

8
00:00:42,540 --> 00:00:46,540
And from that preview, we kind of knew there wasn't much in there for Bitcoin.

9
00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:57,320
But I think you could probably argue some of the details we were looking for actually came from the interviews of White House staff after the report was released.

10
00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:09,500
Well, the president's working group on digital asset markets making recommendations, it says, will usher in the golden age of crypto and follow through on President Trump's campaign promise.

11
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:17,020
Joining me now, the leader of that charge, executive director of the Presidential Council of Advisors for Digital Assets, Bo Hines.

12
00:01:17,460 --> 00:01:21,300
All right, Bo, so you've got some breaking news for us this morning. Tell us what the plan is.

13
00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:26,120
Unfortunately, Bo doesn't get into any breaking news, especially if you caught last week's episode.

14
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,980
it does get pretty political. So I'm going to cut that and I'm going to go to where Bo is in a

15
00:01:30,980 --> 00:01:35,400
different interview. And the question comes up from the interview. I believe this is from the

16
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:41,780
CoinDesk podcast. What about the Bitcoin reserve? But talk to me a little bit about the U.S.'s plans.

17
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,660
Are there any plans to purchase Bitcoin? Is there anything new that you have to share here?

18
00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,480
Well, look, I've said repeatedly, you know, we want to accumulate as much as we can possibly get.

19
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,920
And these budget neutral ways are outlined in the SBR executive order. We also have the

20
00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,560
Digital Assets National Stockpile, which gives credence to other ecosystems and what's being

21
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,580
built elsewhere in the space. As the president likes to say, we have very smart people in the

22
00:02:04,580 --> 00:02:08,640
administration that are working on this. I think that we'll move on ways of accumulation that can

23
00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:12,360
be implemented most expeditiously. And I think that people will be very pleased with what we

24
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,120
come up with. But I also encourage people just to understand that there's an infrastructure piece

25
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,980
of this as well. And Treasury is working diligently on that, making sure everything's

26
00:02:18,980 --> 00:02:21,880
set up properly so that we can move forward in the best way possible.

27
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:44,860
Okay, so I'm going to translate a little bit of political speak here. I think what Bo is saying is they're not ready to create a reserve. There is, quote, infrastructure work that has to be done there. And he also says they're looking at budget neutral ways to purchase Bitcoin. And he thinks the way they've come up with the US people are really going to like. I'm going to come back to that in a moment.

28
00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,260
Yeah, I guess what I would add is.

29
00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:48,480
This is Tyler Williams.

30
00:02:48,980 --> 00:02:53,020
He's like the lawyer or the counsel to the Secretary of Treasury for digital assets.

31
00:02:53,320 --> 00:03:05,740
The executive order that the president issued on January 23rd really tasked the working group to making fulsome recommendations on a legislative and regulatory perspective for creating the best environment for the industry to thrive in the United States.

32
00:03:05,740 --> 00:03:09,760
That's really sort of the core competency and importance of this report.

33
00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:13,780
Separately, there is a different executive order, as Bo just mentioned, relative to the

34
00:03:13,780 --> 00:03:16,020
digital assets stockpile and the strategic Bitcoin reserve.

35
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,540
And the one thing I will add to that as well is, you know, we love Bitcoin.

36
00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:20,620
We understand it's unique.

37
00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:21,720
I think we've said that repeatedly.

38
00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,080
Bitcoin is digital gold.

39
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,660
And we're going to continue to beat on that drum over the course of the next few months.

40
00:03:27,260 --> 00:03:27,300
Okay.

41
00:03:27,460 --> 00:03:31,400
Not much there other than some infrastructure is getting put in place.

42
00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:36,440
And they plan to, I guess, beat that drum over the course of the next couple of months.

43
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,620
But the interviewer asked a decent follow-up question.

44
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:40,820
which is nice to hear.

45
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,720
I know we're talking about this digital asset report,

46
00:03:44,860 --> 00:03:46,580
but Bo, I know that you've mentioned before

47
00:03:46,580 --> 00:03:49,820
that the Bitcoin Reserve report is coming.

48
00:03:50,100 --> 00:03:52,580
Is there any timeline on when we might see one?

49
00:03:52,780 --> 00:03:53,760
So this is a good question

50
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,640
because after that preview came out

51
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,400
and we saw there wasn't much in there about Bitcoin,

52
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,240
some speculation started appearing on the internet

53
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:01,900
that we might see a separate report.

54
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,620
And I think Bo plays a little bit of word games here.

55
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,060
Well, there's actually nothing in the EO

56
00:04:07,060 --> 00:04:10,000
that mandates we have to produce an SBR report.

57
00:04:10,140 --> 00:04:13,900
I mean, I think we'll flush out exactly the best way to engage with that matter.

58
00:04:14,620 --> 00:04:17,080
There's nothing in the EO, in the executive order,

59
00:04:17,300 --> 00:04:20,180
that says that we have to flush out a separate SBR report.

60
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:21,740
That's not quite true.

61
00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:23,240
But he's playing words.

62
00:04:23,420 --> 00:04:28,180
So there is nothing in the executive order that says they need to issue a separate report.

63
00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,640
But I went back and I looked at the executive order from January,

64
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,180
and it does say that the federal government is supposed to release

65
00:04:35,180 --> 00:04:37,380
the total amount of Bitcoin that they currently hold.

66
00:04:38,100 --> 00:04:39,840
And he knows that, obviously.

67
00:04:40,020 --> 00:04:42,360
He's executive director for the Advisor to Digital Assets.

68
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,240
He knows that that was in the executive order.

69
00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:46,200
But she didn't exactly ask it right.

70
00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:47,900
She didn't use the right language,

71
00:04:47,900 --> 00:04:49,900
so Bo gets to play a little bit of word games here.

72
00:04:49,980 --> 00:04:51,260
I'm going to back it up so you can hear it.

73
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,060
They're intentionally obscuring the truth around this,

74
00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:56,980
and I have a theory why.

75
00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,660
I know we're talking about this digital asset report,

76
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:01,900
but Bo, I know that you've mentioned before

77
00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:05,660
before that the Bitcoin Reserve report is coming?

78
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,440
Is there any timeline on when we might see one?

79
00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,860
Well, there's actually nothing in the EO that mandates we have to produce an SBR report.

80
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,740
I mean, I think we'll flesh out exactly the best way to engage with that matter.

81
00:05:17,740 --> 00:05:21,860
But there are all sorts of interests to consider here for our country and the U.S. consumer more broadly.

82
00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:23,380
And we'll continue to work on that.

83
00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:27,700
I think that at the end of the day, the result that we come to, everyone in the industry will be very happy with.

84
00:05:27,700 --> 00:05:56,400
Okay, so from that, it does kind of sound like they have some idea in mind. But here's what I'm thinking happened. Like they have some sort of strategy in mind. But here's what I'm thinking happened. They did do an audit. And the audit came back not so hot. The last administration sold off a bunch of Bitcoin. That was reported in the last few months of the Biden administration, but it was never backed up. It was never really proven. But it was reported that they were doing a last minute sell off of Bitcoin. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't.

85
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,040
But let's go with that rumor for a moment.

86
00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,980
If we look at the situation through that lens, it sort of makes sense why they're playing word games.

87
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,300
They don't have the 200,000 Bitcoin they claim to have.

88
00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:17,040
In fact, in a recent press event during the last crypto summit at the White House, I think Trump gave it in a specific number.

89
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,360
The federal government is already among the largest holders of Bitcoin, as you know.

90
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,100
Really one of the largest holders in the world,

91
00:06:26,260 --> 00:06:33,060
with as many as 200,000 Bitcoin obtained via civil law and various other forms of law.

92
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:34,640
200,000.

93
00:06:35,340 --> 00:06:39,940
So what if they're not one of the largest holders of Bitcoin in the world, as we know?

94
00:06:40,780 --> 00:06:43,880
Really one of the largest holders in the world,

95
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,120
with as many as 200,000 Bitcoin obtained via...

96
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:49,740
So what if there's not 200,000 Bitcoin?

97
00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,200
What if there's 60,000 Bitcoin?

98
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,860
or even, you know, 90,000,

99
00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,060
then they're no longer the largest holder in the world.

100
00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:00,900
It totally kills the brand.

101
00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:03,300
It totally kills what the president has been saying

102
00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:04,840
in these public statements.

103
00:07:05,820 --> 00:07:08,520
So when I hear this word game,

104
00:07:08,540 --> 00:07:10,320
I start to think that maybe they're hiding something,

105
00:07:10,380 --> 00:07:11,240
and I look through that lens,

106
00:07:11,260 --> 00:07:12,080
and it kind of makes sense

107
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:13,500
that this is the thing they might be hiding,

108
00:07:13,820 --> 00:07:15,260
and this is why we haven't seen the report,

109
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,380
and this is why Beau is kind of...

110
00:07:17,380 --> 00:07:18,300
Here's another interview

111
00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:19,700
where he kind of has the same-sy answer,

112
00:07:20,220 --> 00:07:21,400
same details, sort of.

113
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,120
I will say very clearly, we want as much Bitcoin as we can possibly get.

114
00:07:25,300 --> 00:07:28,060
We have to do this in budget neutral ways that don't cost a taxpayer a dime.

115
00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,880
But there are countless ways in which we can do it.

116
00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,600
You know, there can be hundreds of different ways we do this, if not thousands.

117
00:07:32,740 --> 00:07:35,880
And so we talk about this in different verticals, whether it be like through mining activity,

118
00:07:35,980 --> 00:07:36,980
whether it be through BitBonds.

119
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,620
I mean, there's tons of creative things.

120
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:39,480
Collect taxes and Bitcoin.

121
00:07:39,620 --> 00:07:40,960
Yeah, I mean, it's endless.

122
00:07:41,140 --> 00:07:42,820
And so people ask me to give clear examples.

123
00:07:42,940 --> 00:07:45,340
And the reason I don't want to tell you what we're going to do first yet is because I really

124
00:07:45,340 --> 00:07:46,140
don't want to poison the well.

125
00:07:46,140 --> 00:07:48,540
We want to do something that's going to be the most effective in the United States.

126
00:07:48,540 --> 00:07:53,280
And so when we're ready to announce that, which I'm sure we will be in short order, I think that this community will be extremely pleased.

127
00:07:54,420 --> 00:07:59,180
Your big Ethereum bull buddy, Tom Lee, was on Natalie Brunel's podcast, Coin Stories.

128
00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:06,260
And he has a theory that I think also sort of fits in with this, you know, hypothesis I've raised so far.

129
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:17,520
If we assume they're short the coins and if we assume they're not ready to tell the public that, then we also assume that they might actually want to be the world's largest Bitcoin holder.

130
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:40,400
So that's why they're not saying anything right now. They want that. They want that branding. They want to put that messaging forward. There's some strategy we'll get to in a moment when we get to the deeper things happening under the surface. So there's a lot of reasons why they probably do want that 200,000 stash or more, but they don't have it. So how do you get it quickly? How do you solve that problem quickly? If they go to the spot market, they shoot the price up. If they go to the OTC desk, they drain them.

131
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:48,280
So how does a mega purchaser get their hands on enough Bitcoin to become the superpower of HODLers?

132
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:54,960
Well, like I said, your Ethereum bull buddy, Tom Lee, has a theory that kind of does fit into this hypothesis.

133
00:08:55,560 --> 00:09:02,960
I think the day the U.S. says they want to acquire a million Bitcoin, I think Bitcoin's price is going to go up parabolically.

134
00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:04,040
Right.

135
00:09:04,580 --> 00:09:07,140
Because how is the U.S. going to buy it?

136
00:09:07,140 --> 00:09:16,460
I mean, they can't, you know, if you know their wallet, you're going to see every buy, you know, and it's going to become a national pastime for everybody because they're a long buyer.

137
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:25,780
I think it's going to be easier for them to buy large holders of Bitcoin, maybe even give tax amnesty, right?

138
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,700
That's why they're saying it's tax free.

139
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,020
We won't tax capital gains.

140
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,940
They'll do everything they can to try to acquire Bitcoin.

141
00:09:33,940 --> 00:09:40,180
maybe but micro strategy has a sovereign put they have 600 000 bitcoin that's the easiest way to get

142
00:09:40,180 --> 00:09:45,960
to a million bitcoin well so how would that work though i mean for people watching that

143
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:52,400
think like property rights hello i mean those are enshrined in our constitution would would a

144
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,780
company have to sell to the government as long as they're willing to pay fair market i mean like

145
00:09:56,780 --> 00:10:03,340
could they essentially nationalize a company how does it work logistically well the u.s has a

146
00:10:03,340 --> 00:10:07,200
history of acquiring and paying for strategically important things.

147
00:10:07,620 --> 00:10:09,820
They just did so with a rare earths.

148
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,340
I mean, the Pentagon deal with MP, I feel like it's not nationalizing it, but it's a

149
00:10:14,340 --> 00:10:15,220
strategic move.

150
00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:21,040
Yeah, I think the US government takes a private sector approach to that.

151
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:29,000
So if MicroStrategy is at $400 and the clearing price to do that deal is $3,000 or something,

152
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,140
it's probably cheaper to do that than to try to buy a million Bitcoin.

153
00:10:33,340 --> 00:11:00,720
This is an interesting theory. And I don't know what it means for everybody buying the paper stocks of these companies. Maybe they make a good profit. I don't know. If you do, boost in if you have an understanding of that. Also, if you know of any examples of private assets or industries or assets of an industry or a business that the federal government has bought for strategic reasons in the past, boost that in too. Because I have to be honest with you, that is not something I am very familiar with.

154
00:11:03,340 --> 00:11:16,920
Well, in that same clip of Trump that I was playing earlier, where he talks about having 200,000 Bitcoin,

155
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,040
he also said something that I still recall to this day,

156
00:11:21,580 --> 00:11:27,260
and that is that they want to be a long-term hodler and create a foundation of a new reserve.

157
00:11:27,460 --> 00:11:31,840
These existing holdings will form the foundation of the new reserve.

158
00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:43,480
Unfortunately, in recent years, the U.S. government has foolishly sold tens of thousands of additional Bitcoin that were worth billions and billions of dollars had they not sold them.

159
00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:45,820
So there's a little couching in that statement.

160
00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:47,120
You notice that?

161
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,880
I mean, so he says the 200,000 amount and then he couches it with, but, you know, there was some sell off.

162
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,480
They did sell them mostly during the Biden administration.

163
00:11:55,660 --> 00:11:57,920
Not a good thing to have done.

164
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:03,400
from this day on, America will follow the rule that every Bitcoin knows very well,

165
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,840
never sell your Bitcoin. That's a little phrase that they have. I don't know if that's right or

166
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:14,140
not. Who the hell knows? Maybe you should do some research. So why is the president talking like

167
00:12:14,140 --> 00:12:20,540
this? You've also, and I've mentioned the rumors that Trump has referred to Bitcoin as the new oil.

168
00:12:20,540 --> 00:12:25,240
By the way, if anybody knows where the audio of that is, I thought I had that clip. Also send a

169
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,640
link to me. Because all I hear is people reporting that Trump has commented that Bitcoin is the new

170
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:34,400
oil. And I've talked about it a bit. And I want to expand on that idea for a moment. Because I

171
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:41,240
think it all connects in with stable coins, stable coin companies buying US debt, and using Bitcoin

172
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:46,560
as that inflation sink that we talked about last week. I want to expand on that idea a little bit.

173
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,160
At first, I thought, okay, well, you know, there's the proof of work, right? It's energy

174
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,260
relationship. I just thought it was sort of Trump sort of simplistically summarizing. But

175
00:12:55,260 --> 00:13:00,920
this is Luke Groman, and he gets into this is, I think maybe he's probably one of the leading

176
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:06,300
theorists on this. He gets into it. Then we had Paul Ryan write an op-ed in the journal saying we

177
00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:12,140
could use stable coins to, you know, help manage the deficit. Then we had, you know, which again,

178
00:13:12,140 --> 00:13:17,840
he was formerly in government, conservative, whatever. Interesting, but not that. Then we

179
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:23,420
had the Treasury Borrowing Advisory Committee, or TBAC. In October of last year, in their quarterly

180
00:13:23,420 --> 00:13:27,800
report, they had a supplement around digital assets and how that can create demand for U.S.

181
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:35,280
Treasury T-bills. That, for me, was like a whoa moment, bringing up stable coins, talking about

182
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,600
it being a $2 trillion market by the end of the decade. Then they brought it up again in another

183
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:47,000
supplement in their January 2025 quarterly report. And it was then that it really hit me about what

184
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,220
they mean by Trump, what I think Trump meant by Bitcoin's a new oil, which is when the

185
00:13:52,220 --> 00:13:55,640
U.S. had a fiscal problem, they didn't have a debt problem, but they had a fiscal problem

186
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,740
in 71, 73.

187
00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:06,700
And what they ultimately did was Kissinger went and attended a meeting and it was discussed

188
00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:08,920
where, listen, we're going to raise the price of oil 400%.

189
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,240
It was a famous quote in the Shah of Iran.

190
00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:13,740
So, you know, it was asked, like, why are you raising oil 400%?

191
00:14:13,820 --> 00:14:14,380
He's like, I don't know.

192
00:14:14,420 --> 00:14:15,040
Ask Henry Kissinger.

193
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:25,380
and oil was made big enough to basically back U.S. deficits, do the petrodollar deal.

194
00:14:26,060 --> 00:14:33,440
And that's what I think Trump means by Bitcoin's the new oil, which is this stablecoin initiative,

195
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:41,860
I think is really about making stablecoins and by extension, Bitcoin sort of the new oil,

196
00:14:41,860 --> 00:14:46,680
which is they're going to be made big enough to sterilize U.S. deficits.

197
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:56,900
And so from a political standpoint, I think that the Trump administration really wants,

198
00:14:57,020 --> 00:14:58,880
they really want it, they really need it.

199
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,180
They need something to sterilize deficits.

200
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,660
And they want it in a way that is not going to be inflationary, right?

201
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:10,040
The problem with using oil to sterilize deficits, of course, was that inflation went through the roof.

202
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,700
and it creates real issues

203
00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:14,160
in terms of your industry, right?

204
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,120
You jack up.

205
00:15:15,260 --> 00:15:16,780
Well, if the price of Bitcoin

206
00:15:16,780 --> 00:15:21,680
goes from 120,000 to 1.2 million,

207
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:23,480
let's say crazy number,

208
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:25,140
who suffers, right?

209
00:15:25,180 --> 00:15:28,060
What real economy process

210
00:15:28,060 --> 00:15:46,255
is broken down by Bitcoin at 1 million versus 120 It not used for anything Same thing to be said for gold right Ultimately there a few minor industrial applications but if gold went from 3 to 34 so I think this is a fantastic point because we seen the proof play out

211
00:15:46,696 --> 00:15:53,996
Bitcoin's gone from pennies to over $100,000 and it doesn't cause massive inflation in the economy.

212
00:15:53,996 --> 00:15:59,816
It becomes a place where you can absorb liquidity and it doesn't cause direct inflation.

213
00:16:00,275 --> 00:16:05,275
Same can be said mostly for gold, although since gold is used in manufacturing, it's not as clear cut.

214
00:16:06,216 --> 00:16:07,496
Who suffers, right?

215
00:16:07,576 --> 00:16:14,576
What real economy process is broken down by Bitcoin at 1.2 million versus 120,000?

216
00:16:14,696 --> 00:16:15,596
It's not used for anything.

217
00:16:15,976 --> 00:16:17,336
Same thing can be said for gold, right?

218
00:16:17,415 --> 00:16:19,476
Ultimately, there's a few minor industrial applications.

219
00:16:19,476 --> 00:16:24,015
But if gold went from $3,400 to $34,000, so?

220
00:16:24,716 --> 00:16:29,436
And not used for anything is in the context of things like oil and soy, right?

221
00:16:29,596 --> 00:16:35,635
Where everyone in the world touches that stuff and increasing the price of that impacts the entire world.

222
00:16:36,535 --> 00:16:42,655
If oil goes from $65,000 to $650,000, bond market's going to crash.

223
00:16:42,836 --> 00:16:44,035
Real economy's going to crash.

224
00:16:44,155 --> 00:16:45,255
Inflation's going to go through the roof.

225
00:16:45,395 --> 00:16:46,676
Bond market, right?

226
00:16:46,676 --> 00:16:51,476
If you use silver, if you use, you couldn't do it, but if you use soybeans and corn, if

227
00:16:51,476 --> 00:16:56,096
you, you know, if we try to balance our budget with, you know, China on the back of soybeans

228
00:16:56,096 --> 00:17:01,296
and corn, soybeans and corn are going to be $40 a bushel, probably more.

229
00:17:01,336 --> 00:17:04,775
And literally like 6 billion people in the world are going to starve to death in the

230
00:17:04,775 --> 00:17:05,555
next four months.

231
00:17:06,156 --> 00:17:10,576
But if you, you, you have to, when you want to rebalance things that are so imbalanced,

232
00:17:10,636 --> 00:17:14,275
you need a neutral reserve asset to inflate to the moon that isn't used for anything.

233
00:17:14,275 --> 00:17:18,456
And you can use gold, but if you use gold, there's no connection at all to the dollar.

234
00:17:18,736 --> 00:17:23,316
If you inflate that out of Bitcoin and it drags stable coins along, which are trading,

235
00:17:23,576 --> 00:17:26,696
and then you just spin it as, hey, this is maintaining dollar dominance.

236
00:17:26,916 --> 00:17:27,696
And it is.

237
00:17:28,136 --> 00:17:33,095
It's doing something we needed to do anyway, which was move to a neutral reserve asset

238
00:17:33,095 --> 00:17:35,795
because it will weaken the dollar, the price of the dollar.

239
00:17:35,956 --> 00:17:39,196
It will allow us to begin competing again and making stuff.

240
00:17:44,275 --> 00:18:02,335
This is why I've maintained for a while the U.S. government needs Bitcoin more than Bitcoin needs the U.S. government by a long shot.

241
00:18:03,255 --> 00:18:06,876
And I think the Bitcoin reserve might still be on.

242
00:18:06,876 --> 00:18:20,876
I know I have been a little bearish on it recently, but it seems like perhaps the groundwork is being laid, not only in the Treasury from an infrastructure standpoint, but a Fed note, a Fed's note, as they put it, came out on August 1st.

243
00:18:20,956 --> 00:18:26,136
Quote, official reserve revaluations, the international experience.

244
00:18:26,976 --> 00:18:29,736
Now, what does it mean when it says official reserve revaluations?

245
00:18:30,216 --> 00:18:31,555
They're talking about gold.

246
00:18:31,555 --> 00:18:39,495
they're releasing a note that actually talks about repricing the u.s government's gold holdings

247
00:18:39,495 --> 00:18:47,616
this note explores how five countries germany italy lebanon and coraco and and saint martin

248
00:18:47,616 --> 00:18:53,055
and south africa is saint martin a country guys boy i need to i should ask my son dude

249
00:18:53,055 --> 00:18:58,995
got geography on lock i should ask him they reviewed the recent revaluations that these

250
00:18:58,995 --> 00:19:04,416
countries have done with their gold holdings. And they kind of spin it as a political win.

251
00:19:04,876 --> 00:19:11,055
They say that this is not a totally uncommon practice and that central banks have done this

252
00:19:11,055 --> 00:19:17,555
in the past before. And they say that it has typically been a positive experience in these

253
00:19:17,555 --> 00:19:25,775
areas and that it could provide fiscal relief. But then in here, they have a little footnote.

254
00:19:25,775 --> 00:19:27,976
It's the first footnote of the document.

255
00:19:28,495 --> 00:19:30,176
Footnote number one reads, quote,

256
00:19:31,136 --> 00:19:37,716
In the U.S., the idea has come up in the context of helping to establish a strategic Bitcoin reserve.

257
00:19:38,855 --> 00:19:39,576
What?

258
00:19:40,456 --> 00:19:41,176
What?

259
00:19:41,976 --> 00:19:52,255
A Federal Reserve note is talking about reevaluating our gold holdings specifically for the use of purchasing Bitcoin?

260
00:19:53,515 --> 00:19:53,855
What?

261
00:19:54,416 --> 00:19:55,555
I'm going to read it for you again.

262
00:19:55,775 --> 00:20:04,916
I read the whole thing. Quote, in the U.S., the idea has come up in the context of helping to establish a strategic Bitcoin reserve or a sovereign wealth fund.

263
00:20:04,916 --> 00:20:11,795
And the use of reevaluation proceeds was proposed in recent legislation by Senator Lummis.

264
00:20:12,176 --> 00:20:17,855
And then they link to her bill to reevaluate our gold reserves and buy Bitcoin.

265
00:20:18,295 --> 00:20:23,095
And that's the first footnote of the note from the Federal Reserve Group.

266
00:20:24,095 --> 00:20:26,956
Again, if you want to look it up for yourself, I'll have it linked in the show notes.

267
00:20:27,535 --> 00:20:29,876
This is wild.

268
00:20:30,176 --> 00:20:32,176
This is wild to see this.

269
00:20:32,616 --> 00:20:38,656
And also, it reveals some extremely embarrassing data for the dollar.

270
00:20:39,196 --> 00:20:43,095
Now, we've always talked about how CPI is not a really reliable number.

271
00:20:43,736 --> 00:20:49,055
And also, it tends not to be very reliable to measure the system with the system, i.e. the dollar.

272
00:20:49,055 --> 00:20:59,696
So in this governor's Fed note, when they're talking about reevaluating the holdings of gold, they touch on dollar versus gold.

273
00:20:59,956 --> 00:21:05,495
And they state the value of the U.S. dollar has dropped from being backed by one of the four by.

274
00:21:05,595 --> 00:21:17,436
Oh, this is my math. The value of the U.S. dollar has dropped from being backed by one forty second of an ounce of gold to just one three thousandth three hundredth of an ounce over the last 54 years.

275
00:21:17,876 --> 00:21:20,755
This is based on their numbers in this note.

276
00:21:21,515 --> 00:21:27,676
So it's a kegger of 8.4% on average over the last 54 years that the dollar has lost value.

277
00:21:28,436 --> 00:21:33,636
So if you measure by gold, which should be the appropriate long-term measuring stick,

278
00:21:34,255 --> 00:21:40,156
on average, over the last 54 years, the U.S. dollar has lost 8.4% on every year.

279
00:21:40,176 --> 00:21:41,436
Now, of course, some years were much worse.

280
00:21:41,736 --> 00:21:42,936
Some years were, I suppose, better.

281
00:21:42,936 --> 00:21:49,335
but that's way higher than the official CPI number says it is. So do with that what you will.

282
00:21:49,976 --> 00:21:54,656
But just remember that CPI number is cooked and then it's used for a lot of things like social

283
00:21:54,656 --> 00:21:58,795
security benefits getting calculated. A lot of things are based on that bogus CPI number.

284
00:21:59,696 --> 00:22:04,196
And that's a Federal Reserve note coming out posted on the Federal Reserve's website

285
00:22:04,196 --> 00:22:11,616
measuring the loss of the dollar value in gold at an average of 8.4% over the last 54 years.

286
00:22:11,616 --> 00:22:15,595
Wow. I mean, that is, to me, wow.

287
00:22:21,555 --> 00:22:23,495
Well, we're in the category of follow-up.

288
00:22:25,136 --> 00:22:28,976
Last week I told you that Bitcoin would be facing another big liquidity test.

289
00:22:29,176 --> 00:22:31,676
And, well, guess what? Here we are.

290
00:22:32,636 --> 00:22:36,035
The issue is the U.S. government is sucking liquidity out of the market.

291
00:22:36,456 --> 00:22:39,936
They held back, I think in part to ease the bond market,

292
00:22:39,936 --> 00:22:42,055
and also while they waited for debt negotiations.

293
00:22:42,055 --> 00:22:43,316
So they didn't issue debt.

294
00:22:43,376 --> 00:22:45,156
The Treasury didn't issue debt for a period of time.

295
00:22:45,636 --> 00:22:48,495
And now they're catching up and they're ramming their coffers with cash

296
00:22:48,495 --> 00:22:51,116
by issuing debt that the market needs to buy.

297
00:22:51,816 --> 00:22:53,495
So you might recall, I mentioned last week,

298
00:22:53,676 --> 00:22:55,896
this is going to be a big challenge for Bitcoin

299
00:22:55,896 --> 00:22:59,956
because they were issuing $1 trillion in debt in Q3 alone.

300
00:23:00,316 --> 00:23:05,755
They moved forward like almost $500 billion in debt that they waited to buy.

301
00:23:05,755 --> 00:23:10,676
The issue is the U.S. government is beyond broke.

302
00:23:11,076 --> 00:23:15,176
And like many of us out there, they are living paycheck to paycheck.

303
00:23:15,316 --> 00:23:19,676
What's the nation-state equivalent of living paycheck to paycheck?

304
00:23:20,476 --> 00:23:22,176
This, of course, here is Jack Mahler's.

305
00:23:22,316 --> 00:23:26,976
And I was pleased to say that his show this week touched on this very problem.

306
00:23:27,755 --> 00:23:28,995
And his take was great.

307
00:23:29,116 --> 00:23:30,495
I'll try to put a link to it in the show notes.

308
00:23:30,716 --> 00:23:33,896
And I hope more people spread this around.

309
00:23:33,896 --> 00:23:38,236
because I don't really see many people talking about $1 trillion getting sucked out of the market.

310
00:23:38,616 --> 00:23:42,636
Everybody's trying to speculate why Bitcoin's down, why stocks went down. It's right here in

311
00:23:42,636 --> 00:23:47,816
front of us. The nation state equivalence is we have to borrow about half a trillion dollars a

312
00:23:47,816 --> 00:23:52,355
quarter. The United States has already come out and said we will borrow and we will have a little

313
00:23:52,355 --> 00:23:58,555
over $2 trillion deficit this year. So our run rate is call it a half a trillion dollars a quarter.

314
00:23:58,555 --> 00:24:01,416
and delaying our half a trillion

315
00:24:01,416 --> 00:24:04,476
because we can't get the rate that we want

316
00:24:04,476 --> 00:24:07,696
and because there are not natural lenders to us anymore.

317
00:24:08,295 --> 00:24:10,015
Now, how do we know this, guys?

318
00:24:10,355 --> 00:24:12,396
Because we can look at the market.

319
00:24:12,855 --> 00:24:15,136
So this is the US government 10-year yield.

320
00:24:15,835 --> 00:24:18,656
And this is, now it's choppy, obviously,

321
00:24:19,055 --> 00:24:23,055
but you can see in the beginning of Q2, it was low.

322
00:24:23,855 --> 00:24:26,535
And now it is higher.

323
00:24:27,376 --> 00:24:28,476
So yields rose.

324
00:24:28,775 --> 00:24:29,996
That means bonds fell.

325
00:24:30,416 --> 00:24:32,335
That means demand for debt was shrinking.

326
00:24:32,595 --> 00:24:35,496
And this is despite an artificially scarce supply.

327
00:24:36,095 --> 00:24:38,295
We took debt issuance out of the market.

328
00:24:38,436 --> 00:24:41,075
We did not dump more debt onto the market.

329
00:24:41,716 --> 00:24:43,176
And yields still rose.

330
00:24:43,676 --> 00:24:45,075
Bonds still fell.

331
00:24:45,595 --> 00:24:48,055
So this is a huge problem.

332
00:24:48,716 --> 00:24:49,136
Indeed.

333
00:24:49,795 --> 00:24:50,136
Indeed.

334
00:24:50,136 --> 00:24:53,156
So they've got to kind of be creative in how they're issuing this debt.

335
00:24:53,156 --> 00:25:00,755
And they've been releasing bits of information, including this morning, about how they're going to issue the debt in like 100 billion chunks and things like that.

336
00:25:01,335 --> 00:25:04,736
And they're going to do short-term financing for a lot of it because the rates.

337
00:25:05,355 --> 00:25:11,156
And this is a signal to big funds, the banks, all institutional capital.

338
00:25:11,295 --> 00:25:15,736
They have to essentially shift to gobble up what they consider these safe assets.

339
00:25:15,736 --> 00:25:37,116
And this process sucks liquidity from the rest of the market, especially the tech sector, Bitcoin, crypto. And it's no coincidence that I think it was Thursday or Friday that this news came out, or at least that the market digested it, the market lost a trillion dollars.

340
00:25:37,956 --> 00:25:39,855
So you just think of it like a giant vacuum cleaner.

341
00:25:39,976 --> 00:25:40,815
It's hovering up dollars.

342
00:25:40,896 --> 00:25:41,976
They're taking it from other places.

343
00:25:42,055 --> 00:25:46,775
They're going to go put it in these safe, short-term U.S. debt things.

344
00:25:47,315 --> 00:25:48,976
So that makes the market go risk-off.

345
00:25:49,775 --> 00:25:51,055
Capital gets pulled into treasuries.

346
00:25:51,876 --> 00:25:53,456
Higher yields tighten conditions.

347
00:25:53,976 --> 00:25:55,055
Investors reassess.

348
00:25:56,716 --> 00:25:58,035
Liquidity dries up for a bit.

349
00:25:58,396 --> 00:26:01,956
So I guess the lesson is enjoy the dip while it lasts.

350
00:26:07,116 --> 00:26:13,795
But let's check in on those test results.

351
00:26:13,876 --> 00:26:15,295
So I said this would be a big test.

352
00:26:15,755 --> 00:26:16,636
And how did it do?

353
00:26:17,275 --> 00:26:22,116
Well, as of the recording of this episode, Bitcoin is down around 6% from its all-time high.

354
00:26:22,496 --> 00:26:25,775
It's only down about 1.3% in the last seven days.

355
00:26:26,216 --> 00:26:30,755
That's about six or so days into this news that the investors are aware of it.

356
00:26:31,055 --> 00:26:32,335
So I think it's pretty impressive.

357
00:26:32,835 --> 00:26:36,696
I actually really am shocked that we're not down more, honestly.

358
00:26:36,696 --> 00:26:42,376
especially considering we just also had to digest the largest Bitcoin transaction in history the week prior.

359
00:26:42,855 --> 00:26:49,815
So we had the 80,000 Bitcoin transaction, $9 billion of liquidity that were removed from the market for a moment,

360
00:26:50,015 --> 00:26:52,896
and then it bounced back, and now this.

361
00:26:54,075 --> 00:26:57,896
So for the moment, a lot of the money is flowing into U.S. debt.

362
00:26:58,976 --> 00:27:00,636
And I'd be curious to know if you agree,

363
00:27:00,636 --> 00:27:07,176
I'm anything above $110,000 when you consider what's happening in the wider marketplace right now.

364
00:27:07,535 --> 00:27:16,976
Seems extremely impressive as Bitcoin is an overall liquidity indicator and liquidity is down, but Bitcoin isn't massively suffering, at least not yet.

365
00:27:17,496 --> 00:27:20,156
The thing is, and I don't really know how this process plays out.

366
00:27:20,255 --> 00:27:21,236
Maybe it's different every time.

367
00:27:21,315 --> 00:27:25,176
How long does this debt issuing process last from the Treasury?

368
00:27:25,956 --> 00:27:27,716
I think it's probably a few weeks.

369
00:27:27,716 --> 00:27:34,156
I don't I don't I honestly I could not tell you though but I think I want to distract myself from

370
00:27:34,156 --> 00:27:40,416
price stuff and I want to debunk one of the most go-to bitcoin arguments you'll ever hear out there

371
00:27:40,416 --> 00:27:45,456
that I've actually never brought up before on the show so let's shift gears for a moment

372
00:27:45,456 --> 00:27:53,015
and just get into this clip this is JL Collins he's pretty well known for riding the simple

373
00:27:53,015 --> 00:27:58,196
path to wealth. He seems like a pretty good guy overall, pretty sensible with very traditional

374
00:27:58,196 --> 00:28:05,996
ideas and advice when it comes to investing. And he was on Hassan's podcast. And in this episode,

375
00:28:06,515 --> 00:28:10,496
and I'll link to this in the show notes like I do, Hassan asks, you know, I think I want to invest

376
00:28:10,496 --> 00:28:16,095
in Bitcoin. My buddies are all telling me to invest in Bitcoin. And JL comes back with one

377
00:28:16,095 --> 00:28:22,636
of the most common arguments against Bitcoin. And it sounds so damn rational. Bitcoin has had

378
00:28:22,636 --> 00:28:25,896
a 82% year over year for the past 10 years.

379
00:28:26,476 --> 00:28:28,535
We know what's going on with the U.S.

380
00:28:28,595 --> 00:28:30,095
Federal Reserve and the United States.

381
00:28:30,095 --> 00:28:34,335
Why not start allocating some serious capital into Bitcoin?

382
00:28:35,456 --> 00:28:40,035
So it depends on whether you're a speculator or an investor.

383
00:28:40,535 --> 00:28:43,416
Well, in this case, I want to consider myself to be an investor.

384
00:28:43,416 --> 00:28:45,916
And I'm asking you, is Bitcoin a good investment?

385
00:28:46,255 --> 00:28:47,996
No, it's a speculation.

386
00:28:49,676 --> 00:28:50,376
JL, I don't.

387
00:28:50,476 --> 00:28:51,595
I mean, I love you, man.

388
00:28:51,595 --> 00:28:54,315
but you're going to get lit up on the internet. You need to not say this.

389
00:28:54,916 --> 00:28:59,496
Well, I'm sorry, but you asked me the question. I can only give you the answer I have.

390
00:28:59,936 --> 00:29:06,275
So let me explain to you what I mean, right? So Bitcoin, as I said earlier,

391
00:29:07,035 --> 00:29:13,575
if you bought Bitcoin 10, 15 years ago, you've done magnificently well. I mean,

392
00:29:13,755 --> 00:29:20,616
who wouldn't want that? I wish I'd done that. I didn't and still haven't, right? But that's not

393
00:29:20,616 --> 00:29:24,976
the question. The question is, where does it go from here? It's at 100,000 or somewhere.

394
00:29:25,116 --> 00:29:28,716
Right now we're talking about 100,000. And when I was talking to Du Bois in the group chat,

395
00:29:28,755 --> 00:29:33,355
it was at 13,000. And look at me. Yeah, but that was then. This is now. So where does it go from

396
00:29:33,355 --> 00:29:35,636
now? Where does it go from here? Well, now I'm getting in front of jail, and that's what you're

397
00:29:35,636 --> 00:29:40,456
not understanding. And I live with regret, and they're roasting me. Where does it go from here?

398
00:29:40,456 --> 00:29:45,116
This is a common, I would say not a criticism, but you'll hear the reverse of this too. Like,

399
00:29:45,196 --> 00:29:49,755
I'm too late. This is another version of this. I'm too late. It's already at $112,000,

400
00:29:49,755 --> 00:29:55,315
$115,000. I mean, how much higher could it possibly go? So where does it go from here?

401
00:29:55,315 --> 00:30:00,575
Right. Because they haven't done the research. They don't, they don't truly appreciate it. Or

402
00:30:00,575 --> 00:30:06,355
sometimes, sometimes, and I think in the case of JL, it probably is a bit of research, but it's also

403
00:30:06,355 --> 00:30:11,376
a totally different mindset on investing than the Bitcoiners mindset. And we'll come back to this.

404
00:30:11,736 --> 00:30:16,335
And they have laser eyes and like, you dumbass. Yeah. You're out here podcasting and doing ad

405
00:30:16,335 --> 00:30:22,575
reads when you could have gone all in on Bitcoin and 10x'd it. Yeah, I think you've confused me

406
00:30:22,575 --> 00:30:28,476
with your psychiatrist. I can't help you with the fact you're being made fun of. All I can tell you

407
00:30:28,476 --> 00:30:35,616
is that when you look at Bitcoin, it's a speculation. So it's not a currency. It's way

408
00:30:35,616 --> 00:30:40,956
too volatile to be a currency. A currency requires stability. That's why inflation is such a bad

409
00:30:40,956 --> 00:30:47,196
thing and deflation for that matter if you can't rely on a currency having a fairly consistent

410
00:30:47,196 --> 00:30:52,795
value it doesn't work as a medium exchange for goods and services and maybe crypto will get there

411
00:30:52,795 --> 00:30:58,156
at some point but right now it's not okay all right so it may let me finish the thought sure

412
00:30:58,156 --> 00:31:16,231
so it a speculation in the sense that like buying gold like buying exotic cars collector cars or artwork or anything like that When you buy crypto you are saying I am hoping and expecting that somebody at some point in the future

413
00:31:16,231 --> 00:31:19,731
will pay me more for this than I paid for it.

414
00:31:20,371 --> 00:31:22,951
In the case of Bitcoin, that's been a pretty good bet,

415
00:31:23,031 --> 00:31:24,691
although it's been a very wild ride.

416
00:31:24,831 --> 00:31:26,771
Anybody who's actually tracked it,

417
00:31:26,771 --> 00:31:30,931
you had to endure some pretty dramatic drawdowns at various points.

418
00:31:30,931 --> 00:31:38,031
but nevertheless that has worked out not all speculations work out just like your list of

419
00:31:38,031 --> 00:31:43,071
of companies up there right they don't all work out you don't have a crystal ball you don't know

420
00:31:43,071 --> 00:31:49,771
where it's going that's a speculation and investment something like btsax which is in

421
00:31:49,771 --> 00:31:56,011
all those publicly related companies those companies are all filled with people actively

422
00:31:56,011 --> 00:32:02,471
working to produce and provide products and services for people who want them. And if they

423
00:32:02,471 --> 00:32:08,171
do it well, they will make money doing that. And as part owners of those companies, we benefit from

424
00:32:08,171 --> 00:32:14,171
that. They are creating wealth. The traders love the ball. I think it's kind of funny that he

425
00:32:14,171 --> 00:32:18,851
points to companies on the wall that have failed and then proceeds to say that companies are the

426
00:32:18,851 --> 00:32:24,771
best investment and not risky. So he does this thing too that, you know, oh, Bitcoin, if I wish

427
00:32:24,771 --> 00:32:26,071
Even Peter Schiff does this now.

428
00:32:26,111 --> 00:32:27,631
Oh, I wish I would have bought it 10 years ago.

429
00:32:28,311 --> 00:32:30,131
Well, people say that about all kinds of stock.

430
00:32:30,231 --> 00:32:31,011
They say that about NVIDIA.

431
00:32:31,151 --> 00:32:34,851
You know, there's, I don't know, it's just such a silly mindset.

432
00:32:35,691 --> 00:32:38,571
But he says it's not a currency because it experiences volatility.

433
00:32:39,091 --> 00:32:43,611
So he discounts the fact that all assets in history have gone through a monetization period.

434
00:32:44,211 --> 00:32:48,851
He also dismisses Bitcoin being used as a medium of exchange when it's already happening all the time.

435
00:32:48,851 --> 00:32:51,311
The Lightning Network is doing millions of transactions.

436
00:32:51,311 --> 00:33:18,671
But he also considers gold a speculative investment. So I don't think he's very worried about currency debasement. But the argument that's really baked in that is in so many Bitcoin criticisms is what is considered the greater fool theory. And this is a straw man argument that sounds pretty good. JL implies that Bitcoin only goes up if someone else buys Bitcoin at a higher price.

437
00:33:18,671 --> 00:33:28,231
But we know this logic applies to literally every asset with a market, including stocks and absolutely including real estate.

438
00:33:28,991 --> 00:33:31,611
Stocks only have value because people are willing to buy them.

439
00:33:31,911 --> 00:33:35,371
And most people, you know, they're buying it on speculation.

440
00:33:37,331 --> 00:33:40,011
Index funds also rely on continued inflow.

441
00:33:40,071 --> 00:33:44,531
So you can't just say buy an index fund because that relies on constant economic growth.

442
00:33:44,931 --> 00:33:46,751
And that's not guaranteed either.

443
00:33:47,451 --> 00:33:53,731
Then, you know, he kind of doesn't really see any of the use cases for Bitcoin because the reality is it doesn't rely on a greater fool.

444
00:33:53,871 --> 00:34:03,471
Even if no one buys your Bitcoin tomorrow, you still own an asset that can be moved around globally instantly, 24-7, without permission, without a bank, without a middleman.

445
00:34:03,831 --> 00:34:07,711
You still own a censorship-resistant store of value.

446
00:34:08,191 --> 00:34:15,671
And you still have access to a monetary network with a fixed asset supply and increasing global adoption and expansion of the network.

447
00:34:15,671 --> 00:34:20,011
That is fundamentally different than speculations like tulips.

448
00:34:21,071 --> 00:34:23,091
And it's not just speculation.

449
00:34:23,531 --> 00:34:24,871
It's a network effect.

450
00:34:24,971 --> 00:34:25,611
It's a protocol.

451
00:34:26,451 --> 00:34:35,291
And the irony that JL misses, and this is the framing Bitcoiners come with, is what if fiat currency is the speculative bet?

452
00:34:35,911 --> 00:34:40,011
Because aren't governments the one relying on someone else to absorb the debasement?

453
00:34:40,931 --> 00:34:42,911
Haven't we extensively covered that on this show?

454
00:34:43,891 --> 00:34:48,731
Bitcoin was created as a response to a purely speculative fiat system.

455
00:34:49,131 --> 00:34:50,371
That's why Bitcoin was created.

456
00:34:51,551 --> 00:34:55,851
And then JL says, you know, if you buy this index, you get exposure to like 3,000 companies.

457
00:34:55,931 --> 00:34:56,791
So you diversify.

458
00:34:58,011 --> 00:35:03,331
And you can rely on the humans working in that company to all want to make the company better.

459
00:35:04,051 --> 00:35:08,131
But what JL misses is that Bitcoin is already an index of human incentive.

460
00:35:08,991 --> 00:35:13,551
It's an index of global incentive coordination for miners to complete for block rewards,

461
00:35:14,331 --> 00:35:19,431
developers maintaining the protocol, creating applications and services that compete with each other,

462
00:35:20,251 --> 00:35:24,951
users provide demand and security through ownership, institutions are adopting it.

463
00:35:25,751 --> 00:35:32,431
These are an index of human incentives, and it shows us that they're protecting themselves against fiat debasement.

464
00:35:33,491 --> 00:35:35,451
Every participant makes the network stronger.

465
00:35:35,451 --> 00:35:38,651
It doesn't require faith in corporate management.

466
00:35:38,791 --> 00:35:44,851
It doesn't require faith in Tim Cook because it's a network, an ecosystem that's growing.

467
00:35:45,851 --> 00:35:47,791
And then, of course, there is the volatility.

468
00:35:48,451 --> 00:35:49,691
The traders love the vol.

469
00:35:50,211 --> 00:35:52,791
Bitcoin's volatility is always brought up.

470
00:35:53,551 --> 00:35:56,291
But how do you get to the big gains without the volatility?

471
00:35:56,471 --> 00:35:58,251
That's what allows it to go up in value.

472
00:35:58,371 --> 00:35:59,091
It's the function.

473
00:35:59,511 --> 00:36:02,191
It's a feature, not a bug.

474
00:36:03,111 --> 00:36:08,491
Assets with no volatility, like bonds, get absolutely destroyed by inflation.

475
00:36:09,931 --> 00:36:14,671
Bitcoin's volatility means you can buy in now and you get exposure to asymmetric upside over time.

476
00:36:15,691 --> 00:36:19,791
So there's, I think, I think that's responding to all of his points in there.

477
00:36:19,891 --> 00:36:22,711
Now, I kind of want to, like, zoom out.

478
00:36:28,511 --> 00:36:30,091
Now, I say this with no disrespect.

479
00:36:30,091 --> 00:36:39,031
I call this the privileged boomer fallacy because I simply just didn't have the privilege of growing up in the time frame they did.

480
00:36:39,631 --> 00:36:45,411
And what it really is, is it's not so much of an age thing as it is an era, a time period, a government policy period of time.

481
00:36:45,871 --> 00:36:50,951
And it's a particular type of privileged near retirement age investor who's been in the game for a while.

482
00:36:51,471 --> 00:36:56,131
They're often a value investor and they just can't understand why someone would buy Bitcoin.

483
00:36:56,511 --> 00:36:59,411
They just don't get it. And I say that with respect because they're smart people.

484
00:36:59,411 --> 00:37:01,131
Like JL, he's very intelligent.

485
00:37:01,791 --> 00:37:03,111
It's not about ageism.

486
00:37:03,231 --> 00:37:05,251
It's about the context in which people live.

487
00:37:06,331 --> 00:37:10,871
See, I'm going to call them privileged near-retirement investors, PNIs.

488
00:37:11,691 --> 00:37:16,051
You see, they grew up in a world where you could trust your bank, you could trust the

489
00:37:16,051 --> 00:37:19,351
government, and you could trust major corporations, or at least they did.

490
00:37:20,071 --> 00:37:24,951
You could build wealth slowly over decades of steady employment, compound interest, and

491
00:37:24,951 --> 00:37:25,751
stick into it.

492
00:37:25,751 --> 00:37:30,851
a 5 to 8 percent return was meaningful because they had 40 years left to grow it

493
00:37:30,851 --> 00:37:37,811
but the context today especially in a post-2008 world for investors that are coming in for

494
00:37:37,811 --> 00:37:43,751
millennials i think you know elder millennials and gen x are often they have close exposure to

495
00:37:43,751 --> 00:37:49,791
boomer generation so they're not hit by this as hard but millennials and and gen z and gen alpha

496
00:37:49,791 --> 00:37:56,851
whatever these stupid names are, they statistically are so screwed. The environment is so different

497
00:37:56,851 --> 00:38:04,131
now. Currency debasement is so real, and it's viscerably bad now. The dollar has lost 86% of

498
00:38:04,131 --> 00:38:08,751
its purchasing power since the boomers started, and wealth and equity in the country is just

499
00:38:08,751 --> 00:38:16,451
exploding. So when the boomers were in their 30s, the average wealth was, on average, around 140,346

500
00:38:16,451 --> 00:38:24,791
a year if you do inflation adjustment math. So on average, a well-off boomer was making $140,346

501
00:38:24,791 --> 00:38:32,071
inflation adjusted for today. Now, millennials at the same age are making around $108,000,

502
00:38:32,651 --> 00:38:40,331
25% decline. Now, the other factor that's in here, when you also consider there's a 25% decline in

503
00:38:40,331 --> 00:38:44,791
what they're making and the cost of living is ridiculous, but real estate is really a big

504
00:38:44,791 --> 00:38:49,471
factor here. It's the number one wealth engine for the boomers out there. And the boomers and

505
00:38:49,471 --> 00:38:56,491
Gen X, on average, their home is worth $1.3 million. Millennials, on average, their home is worth

506
00:38:56,491 --> 00:39:05,931
$750,000. And Gen Z, on average, their home is worth $69,000. Younger generations are paying

507
00:39:05,931 --> 00:39:13,931
nearly 100% more for the same homes boomers bought in their youth. 100% more. You have to have way

508
00:39:13,931 --> 00:39:20,531
more income to home. The down payment is way bigger now. Adjusted for today's inflation,

509
00:39:20,671 --> 00:39:26,131
the average down payment that a boomer would make was $30,000. In today's numbers, $30,000.

510
00:39:26,751 --> 00:39:31,751
The average that a millennial or Gen Z is having to put down in today's dollars is $89,000.

511
00:39:33,191 --> 00:39:37,831
Millennials own less than two-thirds the amount of real estate boomers did at the same age.

512
00:39:37,831 --> 00:39:44,891
the reality is these near retirement investors they benefited from a system that pulled the

513
00:39:44,891 --> 00:39:49,171
ladder up behind them the boomers didn't i don't think these investors even knew it was happening

514
00:39:49,171 --> 00:39:53,651
so bitcoin does make sense to younger investors that live in this context

515
00:39:53,651 --> 00:40:00,651
because you building wealth by trusting the system writing the index doesn't work anymore

516
00:40:00,651 --> 00:40:06,211
you'll get eaten alive eaten alive by inflation and if you have no wealth to absorb that

517
00:40:07,031 --> 00:40:09,171
It's literally taking food out of your kitchen.

518
00:40:10,031 --> 00:40:13,591
So an asset like Bitcoin is appealing because there's no third party to screw it up.

519
00:40:14,111 --> 00:40:16,151
And we keep watching these companies screw it up.

520
00:40:16,651 --> 00:40:19,151
Who would have thought Bud Light would be a bad investment two years ago?

521
00:40:19,731 --> 00:40:21,831
There's no central bank to inflate the supply.

522
00:40:22,231 --> 00:40:25,471
And there's no corporation to manage it for their interest and add new features.

523
00:40:25,991 --> 00:40:29,111
And there's no gatekeepers that say how I can use Bitcoin.

524
00:40:29,451 --> 00:40:30,411
Once I have it, I have it.

525
00:40:30,951 --> 00:40:34,831
But you have to understand that some of these near retirement investors,

526
00:40:34,831 --> 00:40:40,571
those are bad things. No third party control is a bad thing. No central bank is a bad thing.

527
00:40:40,911 --> 00:40:46,571
No corporation managing it is a bad thing. And gatekeepers, well, that's Wall Street. That's

528
00:40:46,571 --> 00:40:50,271
brokers, right? Gatekeepers, they're necessary for the system to function properly.

529
00:40:50,811 --> 00:40:55,651
But to younger investors, Bitcoin's the answer to all of it. And it's the point of it.

530
00:40:55,931 --> 00:41:00,851
So they're just on completely different pages because of the context of their lives.

531
00:41:00,851 --> 00:41:06,531
And so J.L. Collins' go-to advice is, you know, buy an index like the VT Sachs, I think he said.

532
00:41:07,271 --> 00:41:09,271
Yeah, get a little slice of 3,000 companies.

533
00:41:09,971 --> 00:41:12,771
It's literally the ultimate don't-do-any-research strategy.

534
00:41:13,251 --> 00:41:14,011
Just buy them all.

535
00:41:14,731 --> 00:41:16,051
Just trust the fund managers.

536
00:41:16,591 --> 00:41:18,931
Let them use your money as they see fit.

537
00:41:19,531 --> 00:41:24,111
Which, again, might have made sense when the market wasn't distorted by central bank investors all the time,

538
00:41:24,311 --> 00:41:26,791
when dividends weren't being outpaced by inflation,

539
00:41:27,211 --> 00:41:29,791
when real estate wasn't gatekept by generational wealth.

540
00:41:29,791 --> 00:41:31,851
those ideas might have made sense.

541
00:41:31,971 --> 00:41:35,071
But today, after fees and slippage and dilution,

542
00:41:35,611 --> 00:41:38,471
you end up with smaller, longer-term returns

543
00:41:38,471 --> 00:41:39,371
playing his strategy.

544
00:41:40,011 --> 00:41:41,771
If you just picked a few big winners

545
00:41:41,771 --> 00:41:44,091
or just asymmetric winners like Bitcoin,

546
00:41:44,431 --> 00:41:46,551
you're phenomenally further ahead.

547
00:41:47,271 --> 00:41:48,431
But he doesn't see it

548
00:41:48,431 --> 00:41:50,091
because all of the things that we love about Bitcoin

549
00:41:50,091 --> 00:41:51,211
are a risk to him.

550
00:41:51,751 --> 00:41:53,651
And all of the things that we're trying to avoid

551
00:41:53,651 --> 00:41:54,951
are benefits to him.

552
00:41:55,491 --> 00:41:56,451
And that's okay.

553
00:41:57,191 --> 00:41:57,691
That's okay.

554
00:41:58,671 --> 00:41:59,451
You let me know.

555
00:41:59,451 --> 00:42:05,131
you think I'm off? Am I, as they say, over the skis here on this one? I mean, if Bitcoin is a

556
00:42:05,131 --> 00:42:09,391
speculation, answer me this. If Bitcoin is a speculation, then what are the index funds that

557
00:42:09,391 --> 00:42:14,731
depend on endless economic growth and constant inflows? That's a pretty big speculation. Am I

558
00:42:14,731 --> 00:42:19,411
wrong? I mean, maybe traditional finance strategies go buy real estate, I don't know,

559
00:42:19,691 --> 00:42:23,191
DCA into an index fund. Maybe that is still viable for a younger generation.

560
00:42:24,371 --> 00:42:29,291
I'm just, the entire thing, when I hear these arguments, I feel like it's because

561
00:42:29,291 --> 00:42:35,471
we're on two different panes of reality, two different worlds that some of us that, you know,

562
00:42:35,531 --> 00:42:38,451
okay, or maybe here's another way to put it. Tell me what you think about this theory.

563
00:42:39,051 --> 00:42:45,991
The further away you were born from 1972, the more you need Bitcoin sooner, right? This is just a

564
00:42:45,991 --> 00:42:52,911
raw thought. But if you were born before 1971 or close to 1971, of course, you've experienced

565
00:42:52,911 --> 00:42:57,831
currency debasement, but you've also been around during a pretty economically great period where

566
00:42:57,831 --> 00:43:03,291
there was a lot of opportunities like real estate, et cetera. But the further from 1972 you're born,

567
00:43:03,851 --> 00:43:08,531
the more you're born into a system that's just been completely ravaged and the completely

568
00:43:08,531 --> 00:43:13,631
different context you have. I don't know. Maybe I'm making it up here, but I just feel like there's

569
00:43:13,631 --> 00:43:17,751
something to this. And I don't mean to make it about ageism so much as I think it's actually

570
00:43:17,751 --> 00:43:21,311
about privilege. And it just happens to be that if you're a certain age, you've grown up during a

571
00:43:21,311 --> 00:43:28,251
time. I don't know. Maybe I'm digging myself into a deeper hole here. But boost in and tell me what

572
00:43:28,251 --> 00:43:31,971
you think. I'll try to link to the full podcast interview because I thought it was pretty good.

573
00:43:32,611 --> 00:43:37,411
And, you know, I think, honestly, on average, I kind of probably agree with a lot of JL's positions.

574
00:43:38,491 --> 00:43:42,271
You know, having looked at some of his positions on housing and things like that.

575
00:43:42,911 --> 00:43:50,691
So JL, I was just looking it up, was born in 1958. So he's 67 years old. January 25th, 1958.

576
00:43:51,311 --> 00:44:00,091
And so, you know, he's pretty far on the other side of that 1971 remove ourselves from the gold standard moment.

577
00:44:00,871 --> 00:44:01,851
I could be off on this.

578
00:44:01,991 --> 00:44:05,291
I'd love, especially if you listen and you have some experience in here and you have an opinion, boost in.

579
00:44:05,811 --> 00:44:08,011
And tell me what you think of the theory or if you have a different one.

580
00:44:14,131 --> 00:44:16,071
All right, well, there's more show coming up.

581
00:44:16,151 --> 00:44:20,531
Plus, I got your boost, some updates I want you to hear, a final clip of the week and more.

582
00:44:20,811 --> 00:44:24,151
So I'll just take a moment to mention you can support the show by doing what you do.

583
00:44:24,511 --> 00:44:27,411
If you want to stack sats here in the States, River is probably the best way to go.

584
00:44:27,511 --> 00:44:29,811
And I have a referral link you can use to help the show.

585
00:44:30,151 --> 00:44:33,391
They also have a savings account where you put your cash in there to do those smash buys.

586
00:44:33,771 --> 00:44:37,411
And while you wait, you earn 3.8% sats interest.

587
00:44:37,811 --> 00:44:40,891
Now, if you're all about self-custody, you're in Canada or the States,

588
00:44:41,331 --> 00:44:44,811
the Bitcoin Well is an amazing automatic self-custody Bitcoin platform

589
00:44:44,811 --> 00:44:49,071
directly to and from your Lightning or on-chain wallet when you do your buys and sells.

590
00:44:49,611 --> 00:44:51,251
If you've got some sats in a Lightning wallet

591
00:44:51,251 --> 00:44:52,991
and you want to convert them to a gift card,

592
00:44:53,371 --> 00:44:55,391
the Bitcoin company, they're Bitcoin only,

593
00:44:55,611 --> 00:44:56,511
hundreds of gift cards.

594
00:44:56,751 --> 00:44:57,911
You can log in with just Lightning,

595
00:44:58,091 --> 00:44:59,311
no special ID required,

596
00:44:59,471 --> 00:45:02,211
and you can transfer those sats to a gift card

597
00:45:02,211 --> 00:45:02,891
in just seconds.

598
00:45:03,811 --> 00:45:06,351
Then, if you want to stack sats by paying your bills,

599
00:45:06,611 --> 00:45:08,611
by using your debit card, by buying gift cards,

600
00:45:08,671 --> 00:45:09,431
those kinds of things,

601
00:45:09,991 --> 00:45:11,131
community loves the Fold card.

602
00:45:11,231 --> 00:45:12,051
I love the Fold card.

603
00:45:12,251 --> 00:45:13,031
Link in the show notes.

604
00:45:13,471 --> 00:45:14,531
And if it's time to get access

605
00:45:14,531 --> 00:45:16,791
to some of your Bitcoin value without selling it,

606
00:45:17,151 --> 00:45:18,171
Salt Lending's been good to me.

607
00:45:18,171 --> 00:45:19,491
I have links to all of those.

608
00:45:19,591 --> 00:45:20,711
You use those and support the show.

609
00:45:21,051 --> 00:45:22,111
Of course, you can also boost.

610
00:45:22,411 --> 00:45:24,551
Or now on Fountain, you can become a member too.

611
00:45:33,731 --> 00:45:36,471
And I have some boosts to get to.

612
00:45:37,031 --> 00:45:40,571
But before I get to the boosts,

613
00:45:40,891 --> 00:45:45,051
I have to just take a moment and do a little bit of a disclaimer.

614
00:45:48,171 --> 00:45:56,851
As you may know, I've recently transitioned to hosting the show on the Fountain FM hosting platform, which it's a secret. Don't tell anybody about yet.

615
00:45:56,851 --> 00:46:13,471
And one of the things Fountain's team is very keenly aware of and working hard to solve is one of the technologies that we use to enable the boost hasn't really seen very wide adoption outside of podcasting 2.0 apps.

616
00:46:13,471 --> 00:46:16,191
standard lightning apps don't support

617
00:46:16,191 --> 00:46:17,491
keysend

618
00:46:17,491 --> 00:46:19,671
and keysend

619
00:46:19,671 --> 00:46:21,331
it's a little

620
00:46:21,331 --> 00:46:23,711
unknown bit mostly

621
00:46:23,711 --> 00:46:25,751
of the lightning spec that allows you to

622
00:46:25,751 --> 00:46:27,731
jam in some extra data and metadata

623
00:46:27,731 --> 00:46:28,931
like the message

624
00:46:28,931 --> 00:46:31,051
and maybe the app you're using

625
00:46:31,051 --> 00:46:33,751
and the episode you're listening to and the full

626
00:46:33,751 --> 00:46:35,851
amount so even though you're sending it to my node

627
00:46:35,851 --> 00:46:46,787
and my split I only get a percentage the metadata tells me what the entire amount was and Keysend allows for a lot of this to get crammed into the Lightning payment And it doesn require an invoice either

628
00:46:47,247 --> 00:46:49,186
With Keysend, you can just send the payment.

629
00:46:49,987 --> 00:46:51,186
If you probably, when you use Lightning,

630
00:46:51,346 --> 00:46:53,666
you've always interacted with the invoice experience

631
00:46:53,666 --> 00:46:55,126
where you've had to generate a QR code

632
00:46:55,126 --> 00:46:56,666
or had to scan a QR code.

633
00:46:57,227 --> 00:46:59,587
Lightning traditionally has been invoice-based.

634
00:46:59,587 --> 00:47:02,487
Well, that's using something called LN address.

635
00:47:02,487 --> 00:47:08,587
An LN address has become a really sort of universally adopted standard for Lightning apps.

636
00:47:09,227 --> 00:47:13,447
And in part, it's because it just makes using Lightning a little bit more approachable.

637
00:47:13,567 --> 00:47:17,346
It gives you an email address-like looking address.

638
00:47:17,706 --> 00:47:21,686
So chrislass at getalby.com or whatever the GetAlby thing is.

639
00:47:22,527 --> 00:47:28,166
That you can put into any Lightning app and just send sats, or I can generate an invoice to that address.

640
00:47:28,427 --> 00:47:29,947
Much more user approachable.

641
00:47:30,507 --> 00:47:34,527
It also is just, the reality is what apps have adopted.

642
00:47:34,626 --> 00:47:35,587
They haven't gone with Keysend.

643
00:47:36,487 --> 00:47:38,706
So, Fountain keenly aware of this

644
00:47:38,706 --> 00:47:41,287
wants to enable LN address support for Boos

645
00:47:41,287 --> 00:47:44,367
because it would open it up to just about any Lightning app in the world.

646
00:47:45,087 --> 00:47:47,706
So we did this for Twib last week to try to test it out.

647
00:47:47,787 --> 00:47:49,807
We enabled LN address support.

648
00:47:50,467 --> 00:47:53,907
And then we discovered that in certain circumstances,

649
00:47:54,727 --> 00:47:56,206
we were losing the metadata.

650
00:47:56,967 --> 00:48:00,747
So I will not have everyone's messages this week.

651
00:48:00,887 --> 00:48:08,067
Now, once we discovered this, it took us about two days just because we weren't sure if they're just low boosts or what, you know, like, this doesn't look good, guys.

652
00:48:08,166 --> 00:48:10,987
You know, they're like, and the next day I'm like, this isn't good where something's wrong.

653
00:48:11,007 --> 00:48:12,527
And then we switched it back to key send.

654
00:48:12,987 --> 00:48:15,027
So then, you know, we started getting the messages again.

655
00:48:15,686 --> 00:48:20,747
So I will not read all the messages this week because I don't have them in my report.

656
00:48:21,447 --> 00:48:24,487
Now, I do believe I would have the ability to retrieve them

657
00:48:24,487 --> 00:48:27,146
if I knew some of the metadata about your message,

658
00:48:27,606 --> 00:48:29,706
like your name or some words from the message.

659
00:48:30,166 --> 00:48:32,367
I believe I would have the ability to go retrieve them

660
00:48:32,367 --> 00:48:34,686
because one of the cool things Fountain does

661
00:48:34,686 --> 00:48:36,827
is it, as a safety and as an ability

662
00:48:36,827 --> 00:48:38,567
to make it universally accessible,

663
00:48:39,126 --> 00:48:41,907
is it stores some of the metadata on their Nostre relay.

664
00:48:42,487 --> 00:48:43,867
So actually using Nostre,

665
00:48:43,947 --> 00:48:45,686
there would be a way I could go pull those boosts

666
00:48:46,606 --> 00:48:47,927
if I knew what to look for.

667
00:48:48,407 --> 00:48:49,907
So I really apologize

668
00:48:49,907 --> 00:48:53,427
because this is not how the value for value exchange should work.

669
00:48:53,727 --> 00:48:55,887
If you send a message into the show above 2,000 sets,

670
00:48:55,947 --> 00:48:57,747
as part of the value returned to you,

671
00:48:57,807 --> 00:48:58,967
I read your message on the show.

672
00:48:59,407 --> 00:49:01,067
I'm not able to do that this week.

673
00:49:01,666 --> 00:49:04,867
And it kills me because I know I've missed some good boosts out there.

674
00:49:05,547 --> 00:49:06,407
At least the message.

675
00:49:07,206 --> 00:49:09,527
As far as I know, the value would still go,

676
00:49:09,606 --> 00:49:10,767
although I'm not 100% positive.

677
00:49:11,347 --> 00:49:13,547
And we're going to continue to figure this out.

678
00:49:13,747 --> 00:49:16,747
We are going to solve this and take another crack at it in the future.

679
00:49:16,747 --> 00:49:18,967
but for this week

680
00:49:18,967 --> 00:49:21,407
I'm going to do the best I can

681
00:49:21,407 --> 00:49:23,367
so I will have the boost that came in while we had

682
00:49:23,367 --> 00:49:24,347
keysend in place

683
00:49:24,347 --> 00:49:27,007
and then I will try to

684
00:49:27,007 --> 00:49:29,367
figure out a way or if you can tell me

685
00:49:29,367 --> 00:49:29,987
about your boost

686
00:49:29,987 --> 00:49:33,086
in like a cheap boost somewhere and I'll

687
00:49:33,086 --> 00:49:34,347
go look it up. I don't know

688
00:49:34,347 --> 00:49:37,447
what we'll do but I will try to figure it out

689
00:49:37,447 --> 00:49:39,367
with you and I apologize if I miss your

690
00:49:39,367 --> 00:49:39,907
boost this week.

691
00:49:41,706 --> 00:49:43,646
And now as the French

692
00:49:43,646 --> 00:49:45,347
say it is time for

693
00:49:45,347 --> 00:49:46,347
le boost.

694
00:49:46,747 --> 00:49:53,186
And Pies is our baller booster this week with 10,100 sats.

695
00:49:53,227 --> 00:49:54,626
Coming in hot with the boost.

696
00:49:54,867 --> 00:49:55,867
Let's hear it, good buddy.

697
00:49:56,146 --> 00:49:59,447
Now, there may have been a larger booster out there, but Pies is the one we captured.

698
00:49:59,807 --> 00:50:01,367
And he comes in and says, thank you, sir.

699
00:50:01,447 --> 00:50:03,146
This is a long overdue boost.

700
00:50:03,507 --> 00:50:06,047
You always put out great content in an unbiased and rational way.

701
00:50:06,146 --> 00:50:06,907
So thank you.

702
00:50:07,126 --> 00:50:08,547
Coming in hot with the boost.

703
00:50:09,047 --> 00:50:10,247
Well, thank you very much.

704
00:50:10,287 --> 00:50:11,467
Thank you for that hot boost, Pies.

705
00:50:11,507 --> 00:50:12,487
I really appreciate that.

706
00:50:12,847 --> 00:50:14,947
You're our baller booster officially this week.

707
00:50:14,947 --> 00:50:19,586
Chance of Dizzy Spells comes in with 3,000 sats.

708
00:50:19,807 --> 00:50:20,847
Well, I'll be dipped.

709
00:50:21,106 --> 00:50:22,086
I love that name.

710
00:50:22,447 --> 00:50:23,126
That's a great name.

711
00:50:23,547 --> 00:50:24,686
Thank you for your time and energy.

712
00:50:24,787 --> 00:50:27,027
I appreciate the show, including the finance and politics.

713
00:50:27,227 --> 00:50:28,807
Oh, we're still calling it politics, huh?

714
00:50:29,407 --> 00:50:30,106
Well, all right.

715
00:50:30,146 --> 00:50:30,686
I'll take it.

716
00:50:30,947 --> 00:50:31,967
I appreciate that value.

717
00:50:32,387 --> 00:50:32,807
And thank you.

718
00:50:32,827 --> 00:50:36,007
It does take a lot of energy, but it's a topic I'm very passionate about.

719
00:50:36,447 --> 00:50:38,327
And this community I'm really passionate about, too.

720
00:50:38,367 --> 00:50:39,527
So I'm happy to do it.

721
00:50:40,007 --> 00:50:40,547
Thank you, Chance.

722
00:50:40,686 --> 00:50:41,327
Appreciate that.

723
00:50:41,706 --> 00:50:44,507
Tech Metal 21 comes in with 5,000 sats.

724
00:50:44,507 --> 00:50:46,867
Oh my God, this drawer is filled with fruit lobes.

725
00:50:49,146 --> 00:50:52,626
TechMeta says, I'm still learning about all of this and I appreciate your help in that journey.

726
00:50:53,086 --> 00:50:54,206
You, sir, are boon to us all.

727
00:50:54,487 --> 00:50:55,747
Well, thank you.

728
00:50:55,907 --> 00:50:57,206
Coming in hot with the boos.

729
00:50:57,247 --> 00:50:58,847
And he also says, coming in hot with the boos.

730
00:50:58,927 --> 00:50:59,606
Yes, you are.

731
00:51:00,247 --> 00:51:00,847
Yes, you are.

732
00:51:01,186 --> 00:51:03,747
I appreciate that, TechMeta, and it's nice to hear from you.

733
00:51:04,427 --> 00:51:07,767
Gene Bean's here with 3,559 sats.

734
00:51:07,907 --> 00:51:10,807
I don't understand what the heck is going on here.

735
00:51:10,807 --> 00:51:19,727
He says, regarding your feedback on the Dolphin card, I think it's important to also remember that one of the primary target user groups are people without bank accounts outside the U.S.

736
00:51:20,327 --> 00:51:27,527
So, regarding usability in the U.S., they claim Apple Pay and Google Pay are coming when it's actually available here, even though the card isn't yet.

737
00:51:27,987 --> 00:51:29,767
So maybe when it is, they'll have it on Apple Pay.

738
00:51:30,447 --> 00:51:32,367
He says, you may see some random or duplicate boosts from me.

739
00:51:32,727 --> 00:51:34,106
I had a few hiccups on my Umbral node.

740
00:51:34,327 --> 00:51:35,407
Oh, what went wrong, Gene?

741
00:51:36,307 --> 00:51:38,387
I don't think I saw dupe boosts from you.

742
00:51:38,387 --> 00:51:39,807
I just got these two.

743
00:51:40,186 --> 00:51:41,967
But I'm always curious how the Node stuff's going

744
00:51:41,967 --> 00:51:43,487
and how people's Umbrals installs are doing.

745
00:51:43,666 --> 00:51:45,387
I am falling behind on my updates

746
00:51:45,387 --> 00:51:46,447
and I've heard some horror stories.

747
00:51:46,586 --> 00:51:48,547
So I'm just curious how that's working out for you.

748
00:51:49,067 --> 00:51:50,186
If you feel like reporting it.

749
00:51:50,887 --> 00:51:52,067
Also good to hear they're going to support

750
00:51:52,067 --> 00:51:53,186
the built-in pay systems.

751
00:51:54,007 --> 00:51:55,807
I still don't mean, I still don't know if that means

752
00:51:55,807 --> 00:51:57,606
are they just virtual Visa cards

753
00:51:57,606 --> 00:51:58,706
that still have all the restrictions

754
00:51:58,706 --> 00:51:59,827
virtual Visa cards do?

755
00:52:00,747 --> 00:52:02,626
I'll try to dig into that and figure it out.

756
00:52:02,787 --> 00:52:03,827
I appreciate that boost.

757
00:52:03,907 --> 00:52:04,427
Thank you, Gene.

758
00:52:04,487 --> 00:52:05,407
Nice to hear from you.

759
00:52:05,407 --> 00:52:08,007
Hello there is here with a row of ducks.

760
00:52:08,387 --> 00:52:10,807
That's 2,222 sats.

761
00:52:10,947 --> 00:52:11,807
No message, though.

762
00:52:11,987 --> 00:52:13,646
Just sending us some ducks.

763
00:52:14,047 --> 00:52:14,467
Thank you.

764
00:52:14,807 --> 00:52:15,606
Appreciate that.

765
00:52:18,767 --> 00:52:19,686
User 59.

766
00:52:20,686 --> 00:52:22,086
Also sent a row of ducks.

767
00:52:22,547 --> 00:52:26,547
I'm just getting started with Bitcoin, but the learning curve is very steep.

768
00:52:26,547 --> 00:52:30,367
What do you recommend for someone looking into cold storage but has no clue how to get started?

769
00:52:30,887 --> 00:52:32,606
Love the show and the insights.

770
00:52:33,347 --> 00:52:37,126
You know, I'm almost tempted to tell you don't rush into cold storage.

771
00:52:38,067 --> 00:52:40,727
If you don't have a life-changing amount of money,

772
00:52:41,427 --> 00:52:43,067
I don't know if it's particularly worth it

773
00:52:43,067 --> 00:52:44,987
until you've had a little bit of time to learn.

774
00:52:45,666 --> 00:52:47,327
Not that it's not complicated, honestly.

775
00:52:47,527 --> 00:52:48,787
I think the Bitcoin community

776
00:52:48,787 --> 00:52:50,727
does tend to make it sound very scary.

777
00:52:51,206 --> 00:52:53,166
It is scary in the sense that you are taking

778
00:52:53,166 --> 00:52:55,367
dramatic personal responsibility.

779
00:52:56,027 --> 00:52:57,847
You are personally responsible

780
00:52:57,847 --> 00:53:01,067
for ensuring you don't lose your life-changing wealth.

781
00:53:01,606 --> 00:53:04,067
You're also taking your own life into your own hands

782
00:53:04,067 --> 00:53:05,126
every time you get behind the wheel.

783
00:53:05,126 --> 00:53:07,606
and you're taking your entire family's hands

784
00:53:07,606 --> 00:53:09,447
in your lives into your hands

785
00:53:09,447 --> 00:53:10,807
when you all get in the car.

786
00:53:11,847 --> 00:53:14,067
I think you're, you know, these are not,

787
00:53:14,626 --> 00:53:16,827
these are also things that are very,

788
00:53:16,967 --> 00:53:20,547
very radically self-responsibility things.

789
00:53:20,706 --> 00:53:23,307
And I just think when you think of those types of things,

790
00:53:23,407 --> 00:53:25,427
Bitcoin cold storage, it doesn't rank that high.

791
00:53:25,507 --> 00:53:28,206
It's not as risky as driving a car.

792
00:53:28,327 --> 00:53:29,586
You're not taking on that kind of risk.

793
00:53:29,807 --> 00:53:31,927
But I do think it's worth educating yourself

794
00:53:31,927 --> 00:53:34,086
a little bit, spending some time

795
00:53:34,086 --> 00:53:36,606
because you might set up a different setup

796
00:53:36,606 --> 00:53:38,047
if you give yourself a few months.

797
00:53:38,347 --> 00:53:40,367
And if you're using platforms like River

798
00:53:40,367 --> 00:53:42,407
or other ones that we talk about,

799
00:53:42,507 --> 00:53:44,586
I don't think you need to worry a lot

800
00:53:44,586 --> 00:53:46,027
about getting your sats off immediately.

801
00:53:46,247 --> 00:53:47,686
Not until it's something

802
00:53:47,686 --> 00:53:49,887
that you would consider extremely valuable.

803
00:53:50,567 --> 00:53:51,847
If at that point,

804
00:53:52,227 --> 00:53:53,867
you could always send me more questions.

805
00:53:54,166 --> 00:53:56,247
Because my go-to is going to be something

806
00:53:56,247 --> 00:53:58,947
like the Cold Card or the BitBox O2.

807
00:53:59,666 --> 00:54:01,367
Those are going to be my go-tos right now.

808
00:54:01,367 --> 00:54:08,407
I also like, oh, it is the Jade. I like the Jade too. I do like the Jade. Those are sort of my top

809
00:54:08,407 --> 00:54:12,507
three hardware wallets that you could start looking at, but I think it'd be worth holding off

810
00:54:12,507 --> 00:54:19,027
and waiting till, I don't know, probably for me, it's a few million sats. That's where I start going,

811
00:54:19,126 --> 00:54:23,387
I don't really want to leave this on there, but there's, you know, like River just today put out

812
00:54:23,387 --> 00:54:27,686
their proof of custody and they have more Bitcoin on their balance sheet than their customers.

813
00:54:28,507 --> 00:54:29,787
In other words, they have more Bitcoin.

814
00:54:29,947 --> 00:54:32,067
So every customer could withdraw all of their funds

815
00:54:32,067 --> 00:54:33,507
and they have all the Bitcoin to cover it.

816
00:54:33,747 --> 00:54:34,927
I guess that's an easier way to say that.

817
00:54:35,367 --> 00:54:36,126
Thank you, user 59.

818
00:54:36,307 --> 00:54:38,867
You can always change your name in the Fountain app

819
00:54:38,867 --> 00:54:40,347
and then boost back in and let me know who you are.

820
00:54:40,747 --> 00:54:41,247
Great boost.

821
00:54:41,387 --> 00:54:44,227
And congratulations on starting a very fun journey

822
00:54:44,227 --> 00:54:47,967
that I think ends up changing a lot of us.

823
00:54:48,507 --> 00:54:49,487
So do keep in touch.

824
00:54:51,567 --> 00:54:54,467
HGW39's back with 5,000 cents.

825
00:54:57,686 --> 00:55:00,166
It says, thanks for the signal.

826
00:55:00,247 --> 00:55:03,626
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Samurai and Tornado cash developer trials.

827
00:55:04,047 --> 00:55:06,987
These aren't getting anywhere near as much covers as the treasury companies and stablecoin

828
00:55:06,987 --> 00:55:10,487
regulations, but there are some concerning developments in these cases, which could have

829
00:55:10,487 --> 00:55:13,086
effects on the development of all kinds of Bitcoin applications.

830
00:55:13,706 --> 00:55:16,987
I also saw a report on the rage summarizing the privacy measures the White House are asking

831
00:55:16,987 --> 00:55:23,206
FinCEN to deem as money laundering concerns, and they cover lots of general use cases that

832
00:55:23,206 --> 00:55:24,007
all of us do regularly.

833
00:55:24,447 --> 00:55:25,706
Would love to hear your thoughts on these,

834
00:55:25,827 --> 00:55:27,947
considering your background in Bitcoin with the FOSS-based things.

835
00:55:28,487 --> 00:55:30,027
So let's start backwards.

836
00:55:30,447 --> 00:55:36,027
I need to look more into the RAGE report on the FinCEN money laundering stuff

837
00:55:36,027 --> 00:55:41,086
because I too have seen a report, I read a brief on it, and it looked real bad.

838
00:55:41,447 --> 00:55:44,747
So I will try to note down to look more into that.

839
00:55:45,487 --> 00:55:47,947
Answer your question about the Samurai and Tornado Cash developers.

840
00:55:49,467 --> 00:55:53,186
Yeah, I think both of us are concerned here about the precedent that these cases will set,

841
00:55:53,186 --> 00:55:55,267
and I believe the samurai developers at the last moment

842
00:55:55,267 --> 00:55:58,467
just decided to plead guilty, which starts a process.

843
00:55:59,166 --> 00:56:02,586
And it would impact, I think, all free software.

844
00:56:02,987 --> 00:56:05,106
So it goes beyond just Tornado Cash,

845
00:56:05,186 --> 00:56:06,847
which was for Ethereum and the samurai folks,

846
00:56:06,927 --> 00:56:07,566
which was for Bitcoin.

847
00:56:08,146 --> 00:56:10,887
And it affects anybody that creates free software

848
00:56:10,887 --> 00:56:15,146
that might enable what the law at the time

849
00:56:15,146 --> 00:56:16,706
decides to call money laundering

850
00:56:16,706 --> 00:56:19,047
or evading sanctions or whatever.

851
00:56:19,427 --> 00:56:20,507
So it's extremely concerning.

852
00:56:20,507 --> 00:56:25,447
And I've been thinking and meaning to do a dedicated segment on it soon.

853
00:56:25,606 --> 00:56:31,646
I think, you know, there's not a lot for me to cover when we were in the stages that we have been.

854
00:56:32,327 --> 00:56:33,767
Perhaps more information comes out.

855
00:56:33,907 --> 00:56:34,887
I'm looking for good sources.

856
00:56:35,007 --> 00:56:35,987
The Rage is definitely one of them.

857
00:56:36,027 --> 00:56:37,267
I'm looking for other really good sources.

858
00:56:37,586 --> 00:56:40,086
And I'd love to find audio sources as well.

859
00:56:40,767 --> 00:56:43,767
So if you see any of that, HG, please do send them my way.

860
00:56:43,827 --> 00:56:48,166
I'd definitely consider that a valuable contribution to the show because it's something I would like to cover more.

861
00:56:48,666 --> 00:56:49,186
Great boost.

862
00:56:49,186 --> 00:56:49,967
Thank you.

863
00:56:49,967 --> 00:56:51,807
and please feel free asking questions.

864
00:56:51,867 --> 00:56:52,186
I love it.

865
00:56:52,987 --> 00:56:53,387
Everything.

866
00:56:53,586 --> 00:56:55,927
Satoshi comes in with 2,100s ads.

867
00:56:59,807 --> 00:57:03,066
Oh, Primal Web allows you to switch between NPUBs easily.

868
00:57:04,427 --> 00:57:05,327
It does?

869
00:57:05,827 --> 00:57:06,566
That's great.

870
00:57:06,666 --> 00:57:08,487
Okay, that's definitely a route I might take.

871
00:57:08,947 --> 00:57:09,646
Thank you, everything.

872
00:57:10,106 --> 00:57:12,427
Last week, I said I wanted to set up an NPUB for the show,

873
00:57:12,606 --> 00:57:14,146
but because I use the Albi extension

874
00:57:14,146 --> 00:57:15,347
and that's logged into my stuff,

875
00:57:15,686 --> 00:57:17,487
I don't really know how to manage multiple NPUBs

876
00:57:17,487 --> 00:57:19,606
and not mess that up.

877
00:57:19,606 --> 00:57:21,606
But then Johnny Satz also, and thank you.

878
00:57:22,106 --> 00:57:22,927
That's awesome.

879
00:57:23,007 --> 00:57:24,047
I will check out Primal everything.

880
00:57:24,547 --> 00:57:26,287
But then Johnny Satz came in with a row of ducks.

881
00:57:27,327 --> 00:57:28,407
He said, hey, Chris, great episode.

882
00:57:28,927 --> 00:57:33,106
To manage multiple NPUBs, you can use keys.band.

883
00:57:33,327 --> 00:57:36,267
That's K-E-Y-S dot B-A-N-D.

884
00:57:36,626 --> 00:57:39,747
It's a Chromium browser extension, and it works like a charm.

885
00:57:40,327 --> 00:57:41,767
Gosh, I wish they had this for Firefox,

886
00:57:41,987 --> 00:57:47,427
but I am not opposed to using a Chromium browser to manage Noster.

887
00:57:47,427 --> 00:57:56,367
this is neat so keys.band allows you to swap between different nostre identities it's got

888
00:57:56,367 --> 00:58:00,027
multi-key management it allows you to do the permission control you know like when things

889
00:58:00,027 --> 00:58:04,447
want to ask ask different scopes and stuff and it tracks the activities and the interface looks

890
00:58:04,447 --> 00:58:10,467
really good too like you can authorize certain things for five minutes for an hour forever you

891
00:58:10,467 --> 00:58:15,086
know you can all of that you keep track of the relays it uses who's looked at it so this is this

892
00:58:15,086 --> 00:58:19,947
is a great recommendation keys.band and i will put a link to that in the show notes thank you

893
00:58:19,947 --> 00:58:26,166
johnny sats appreciate it ace ackerman's back with a row of ducks says the bitcoin price will

894
00:58:26,166 --> 00:58:33,666
not break below 110 prior to making all-time new highs oh i love it oh i love that that's so

895
00:58:33,666 --> 00:58:38,186
that's so spicy you know what i'm digging this too right because right now as we record what

896
00:58:38,186 --> 00:58:39,987
115,000. So you got

897
00:58:39,987 --> 00:58:42,287
a 5,000th buffer

898
00:58:42,287 --> 00:58:44,287
and I guess

899
00:58:44,287 --> 00:58:46,166
it really just depends on how long this liquidity

900
00:58:46,166 --> 00:58:48,467
vacuum goes. The treasury vacuum.

901
00:58:49,247 --> 00:58:50,047
Ooh, that could be a title.

902
00:58:51,527 --> 00:58:52,106
You know,

903
00:58:52,206 --> 00:58:53,927
as long as the treasury vacuum is running,

904
00:58:54,347 --> 00:58:56,287
I don't know if Bitcoin climbs. But then I

905
00:58:56,287 --> 00:58:58,066
think once the treasury vacuum wraps,

906
00:58:58,887 --> 00:59:00,146
Bitcoin starts climbing again

907
00:59:00,146 --> 00:59:01,206
pretty quick. So

908
00:59:01,206 --> 00:59:04,146
in the longer term,

909
00:59:04,586 --> 00:59:05,987
this is just about a blip on the radar.

910
00:59:06,767 --> 00:59:07,867
Good one, Ace. Thank you.

911
00:59:08,186 --> 00:59:11,106
Uh, Pickle Rick came in with 10,000 sats.

912
00:59:14,347 --> 00:59:15,227
Another baller.

913
00:59:15,267 --> 00:59:17,727
I hoard that which your kind covet.

914
00:59:17,787 --> 00:59:19,367
And Pickle Rick just says value for value.

915
00:59:19,467 --> 00:59:20,126
Thank you, Pickle Rick.

916
00:59:20,527 --> 00:59:21,287
Appreciate that.

917
00:59:21,507 --> 00:59:25,847
Now, I know that wasn't everybody's boost, and I am so sorry if I missed your boost.

918
00:59:25,927 --> 00:59:28,327
Please do let me know somehow if you can.

919
00:59:28,767 --> 00:59:34,967
We clocked 59,125 sats streamed by 30 of you out there, so I got that.

920
00:59:34,967 --> 00:59:37,247
and when I combine that with our boosters,

921
00:59:37,727 --> 00:59:41,407
it's a pretty bad 109,872 sets.

922
00:59:42,047 --> 00:59:44,566
I would hate to break that down to an hourly wage this week,

923
00:59:44,646 --> 00:59:47,867
but I think that's more on me than it is you guys,

924
00:59:47,947 --> 00:59:49,047
so I put the fail on me.

925
00:59:51,547 --> 00:59:52,027
Ugh.

926
00:59:53,347 --> 00:59:54,166
It's rough.

927
00:59:54,566 --> 00:59:55,146
It's rough.

928
00:59:55,247 --> 00:59:55,927
Let's turn this around.

929
00:59:58,727 --> 00:59:59,887
Things are all fixed now.

930
00:59:59,987 --> 01:00:01,146
It's easy to boost with Fountain.

931
01:00:01,227 --> 01:00:03,307
If you go get Fountain FM, they host Lightning Walt.

932
01:00:03,307 --> 01:00:06,447
They make it easy to connect to Strike or another Fiat on-ramp.

933
01:00:06,827 --> 01:00:09,407
But of course, there's lots of great self-hosted options too.

934
01:00:09,706 --> 01:00:12,507
Just check out podcastapps.com to start the journey.

935
01:00:12,927 --> 01:00:17,666
You know it's popular in our audience when almost every week we hear about somebody using AlbiHub.

936
01:00:18,106 --> 01:00:22,407
And I use AlbiHub amongst also my own self-hosted nodes, which I have a couple of.

937
01:00:22,706 --> 01:00:24,566
And I think it's a fantastic project.

938
01:00:25,047 --> 01:00:26,586
So let me know how your node setups are going.

939
01:00:26,767 --> 01:00:29,527
Umbral, whatever it might be, that's something I'd love to hear you boost in about.

940
01:00:29,527 --> 01:00:32,626
And thank you everyone who supported episode 67.

941
01:00:32,626 --> 01:00:37,227
and like an extended thank you if you supported the show this week

942
01:00:37,227 --> 01:00:38,686
and I didn't get your message on the air.

943
01:00:39,066 --> 01:00:40,227
Thank you very much.

944
01:00:51,447 --> 01:00:53,606
Now, something we've talked about recently,

945
01:00:53,666 --> 01:00:57,047
and it's been in the news, is what's going on in El Salvador.

946
01:00:57,507 --> 01:00:58,507
What's going on?

947
01:00:58,507 --> 01:01:15,027
And there was a decent clip of video released by Documenting Bitcoin on their X account this week that accounts for the El Salvadorians perspective, the people on the ground who are noticing that the price is up.

948
01:01:15,206 --> 01:01:28,047
And it's funny. I noticed this when I was down there. You don't think you wouldn't think of it, but I guess it makes sense. Like when the price is down, the El Salvador people are feeling a little little stinky about Bitcoin.

949
01:01:28,047 --> 01:01:32,126
And when the price is up, everybody's really excited about Bitcoin.

950
01:01:32,287 --> 01:01:34,086
And I guess that's just human nature.

951
01:01:34,967 --> 01:01:38,427
But as a result, a funny thing happens along the way.

952
01:01:38,646 --> 01:01:43,206
They learn the volatility, not so bad, and it's okay to ride the lows.

953
01:01:43,527 --> 01:01:47,166
But they also become more curious, and they want to learn.

954
01:01:47,927 --> 01:01:52,927
And for the last two years, a learning center has helped over 200 owners of local businesses

955
01:01:52,927 --> 01:01:56,047
learn how to integrate Bitcoin into their business.

956
01:01:56,047 --> 01:02:03,047
Atop one of El Salvador's coffee-growing mountain ranges, beans and bitcoin are being traded.

957
01:02:03,047 --> 01:02:08,047
Crypto enthusiasts in Berlin, in the eastern part of the Central American country,

958
01:02:08,047 --> 01:02:14,566
are enjoying the profits of the currency's surge to record levels, currently around $115,000.

959
01:02:14,622 --> 01:02:19,442
dollars. Local market vendor Marta Navarro is one of the lucky ones.

960
01:02:22,702 --> 01:02:28,262
I left the money there and let it work. I left it there and then I would suddenly look at it.

961
01:02:28,862 --> 01:02:34,442
Sometimes it would go up, sometimes it would go down. Suddenly I saw I'd earned quite a bit.

962
01:02:35,162 --> 01:02:39,162
So it's very nice because when you have enough money, you see the profit when it goes up.

963
01:02:39,162 --> 01:02:47,202
In September 2021, El Salvador became the first country in the world to make Bitcoin legal tender alongside the US dollar.

964
01:02:47,202 --> 01:02:57,842
However, in January, President Nayib Bukele's government modified the law as part of an agreement with the International Monetary Fund to obtain $1.4 billion in financing.

965
01:02:58,322 --> 01:03:05,102
That made Bitcoin acceptance voluntary for private parties and limited public sector participation in cryptocurrency.

966
01:03:05,942 --> 01:03:09,262
Berlin is one place embracing the whole idea, however.

967
01:03:09,262 --> 01:03:16,062
More than two years ago, the small community of around 20,000 people created a cryptocurrency learning center.

968
01:03:16,342 --> 01:03:22,382
This is Berlin in El Salvador, and it's a small town that has become essentially hyper-Bitcoinized.

969
01:03:23,402 --> 01:03:24,882
They built the town.

970
01:03:25,282 --> 01:03:26,762
Well, they didn't build the town.

971
01:03:27,042 --> 01:03:31,742
They remodernized the town around the idea of making it a center for Bitcoin.

972
01:03:31,742 --> 01:03:39,982
People created a cryptocurrency learning center to provide technical support to owners of about 200 businesses and entrepreneurs.

973
01:03:40,562 --> 01:03:46,402
They say they have educated over 500 students about Bitcoin as an alternative to the financial system

974
01:03:46,402 --> 01:03:51,482
and claim foreign tourists and locals now regularly transect in digital currency.

975
01:03:51,962 --> 01:03:57,262
Gail Weisenberg, a French hostel owner in Berlin, says she has experienced a shift in attitude.

976
01:03:57,262 --> 01:04:03,862
I think whoever lives in Berlin now lives in US dollars and in Bitcoin standard.

977
01:04:04,462 --> 01:04:07,082
But I think more people are on the Bitcoin standard.

978
01:04:07,502 --> 01:04:12,122
But Quentin Ehrenmann, a French citizen working with a non-governmental organization,

979
01:04:12,422 --> 01:04:15,542
My First Bitcoin, is worried about the change in the law.

980
01:04:20,142 --> 01:04:23,502
Since the government entered into this contract with the IMF,

981
01:04:23,502 --> 01:04:28,782
Bitcoin is no longer legal tender and we haven't seen any other effort to educate people.

982
01:04:33,862 --> 01:04:38,862
The government apparently continues to accumulate Bitcoin, which is beneficial for the government.

983
01:04:39,222 --> 01:04:41,562
It's not directly good for the people.

984
01:04:42,202 --> 01:04:50,722
The government says it has continued increasing its reserves to reach a total of 6,246 Bitcoins, worth over $700 million.

985
01:04:50,722 --> 01:04:55,262
And the IMF said Thursday that El Salvador's crypto holdings

986
01:04:55,262 --> 01:04:58,922
remain consistent with commitments the country made earlier this year.

987
01:04:59,202 --> 01:05:03,022
But Berlin's eager adoption of Bitcoin could remain an outlier.

988
01:05:03,442 --> 01:05:06,842
A 2024 survey by the Jesuit Central American University

989
01:05:06,842 --> 01:05:10,402
showed that 80% of Salvadorans believed cryptocurrency

990
01:05:10,402 --> 01:05:13,542
provided little to no help to their family's wealth.

991
01:05:13,942 --> 01:05:15,662
Reuters has to throw that in there at the end.

992
01:05:16,502 --> 01:05:18,262
You know, the thing I learned when I was in El Salvador

993
01:05:18,262 --> 01:05:19,902
is it just depends who you ask.

994
01:05:20,262 --> 01:05:22,162
If you ask the younger generation, they love it.

995
01:05:22,702 --> 01:05:24,722
If you ask new business owners, they love it.

996
01:05:25,222 --> 01:05:31,982
If you ask business owners that have been around for corrupt government after corrupt government, they don't trust it because it came from the top.

997
01:05:32,622 --> 01:05:37,622
It was a government-mandated implementation, and that right there is what disqualifies it from being trusted.

998
01:05:38,082 --> 01:05:39,642
They don't look at it any further than that.

999
01:05:39,702 --> 01:05:43,262
If the government tells them they should use it, then they don't want to use it.

1000
01:05:43,262 --> 01:05:51,582
And so I'm not 100% sure if repealing the law that forces it to be used as currency is a bad thing because it's obviously benefiting some of them.

1001
01:05:52,282 --> 01:05:54,642
You know, these El Salvadorians didn't have a savings account.

1002
01:05:54,842 --> 01:05:57,702
They didn't even really weren't able to hold on to cash at all.

1003
01:05:58,282 --> 01:05:59,202
And now they do.

1004
01:05:59,322 --> 01:06:03,022
Now they have a savings account and they can see it grow and they can see the benefits and it sort of sells itself.

1005
01:06:03,102 --> 01:06:05,262
And that's why people are showing up to take those classes.

1006
01:06:06,182 --> 01:06:07,602
It's a mixed story.

1007
01:06:07,802 --> 01:06:08,962
I think it's always complicated.

1008
01:06:09,362 --> 01:06:10,342
But I think it's nice to see.

1009
01:06:10,342 --> 01:06:14,142
Yeah, that's Berlin and El Salvador, which I think would be very nice to visit.

1010
01:06:14,942 --> 01:06:20,562
Now, when I was watching the old tubes this weekend, I think it was on Sunday.

1011
01:06:20,642 --> 01:06:23,102
It might have actually been Monday because it was a weird week.

1012
01:06:23,622 --> 01:06:28,542
I came across the CBS News, and they covered the fire movement.

1013
01:06:28,662 --> 01:06:31,502
And I want to see if you notice what I noticed.

1014
01:06:32,322 --> 01:06:36,462
You're never too young to retire, as Luke Burbank explains.

1015
01:06:36,462 --> 01:06:42,882
On a recent Sunday morning at a Bible camp outside of Gainesville, Florida,

1016
01:06:42,882 --> 01:06:44,962
Nick Johnson got up to preach.

1017
01:06:44,962 --> 01:06:48,122
And you've decided to take the simple path to wealth.

1018
01:06:48,722 --> 01:06:52,242
Not about hellfire and brimstone, but about a very different fire.

1019
01:06:52,722 --> 01:07:11,449
Financial independents retire early Ultimately at the end of the day financial independence really ain about us It about the people that we love and the causes that we care about This was Camp Fi and its attendees were retirees and aspiring retirees who looked a little on the

1020
01:07:11,449 --> 01:07:19,869
young side. Our first date, he had a coupon. When Johnson met his wife, Adina, some 30 years ago,

1021
01:07:19,869 --> 01:07:27,889
she knew right away he was a saver. I did use a coupon. Really? I'm not ashamed about it. So I

1022
01:07:27,889 --> 01:07:31,989
knew that if I presented a coupon and she had an issue with it, she was not my soulmate.

1023
01:07:32,449 --> 01:07:38,149
I don't know. I mean, it's cute. It is cute. And coupons are great. But I feel a little bit like

1024
01:07:38,149 --> 01:07:43,789
here CBS is telling you that if you just clip coupons for 30 years, then you can retire a

1025
01:07:43,789 --> 01:07:49,549
couple years early, there's no way you are beating the monster that is debasement by

1026
01:07:49,549 --> 01:07:50,389
clipping coupons.

1027
01:07:50,589 --> 01:07:53,309
Adina, what went through your mind when you saw that coupon come out?

1028
01:07:53,609 --> 01:07:55,049
How many other coupons do you have?

1029
01:07:55,709 --> 01:07:56,749
What's the best deal?

1030
01:07:56,869 --> 01:07:57,849
Wait a minute, wait a minute.

1031
01:07:57,949 --> 01:07:59,209
Let's see what we can do here.

1032
01:08:00,809 --> 01:08:06,649
Nick worked in software while Adina was in higher ed, and despite modest starting salaries,

1033
01:08:06,649 --> 01:08:13,709
they managed to pay off their home and save $1.6 million by consuming less, saving more,

1034
01:08:14,089 --> 01:08:18,169
and putting 300,000 miles on their beloved minivan, Big Red.

1035
01:08:18,389 --> 01:08:21,009
Another trope. Just don't buy so many cars.

1036
01:08:21,389 --> 01:08:24,869
You know, if you just put 300,000 miles on your car, you know, if you...

1037
01:08:24,869 --> 01:08:29,109
By the way, I've got nearly 200,000 miles on one of my cars.

1038
01:08:29,409 --> 01:08:30,089
Well, two of my cars.

1039
01:08:30,869 --> 01:08:33,869
You know what ends up happening? About once a year, you've got to put a grand into the thing.

1040
01:08:33,869 --> 01:08:35,789
So, it's not like they're free.

1041
01:08:35,789 --> 01:08:40,009
But what they don't mention is that this couple started 30 years ago.

1042
01:08:40,849 --> 01:08:47,609
You know, clipping coupons, being thrifty, and driving your Toyota for 300,000 miles is a good idea,

1043
01:08:47,769 --> 01:08:51,929
and all things Bitcoiners should probably consider doing so that way they can optimally stack sets.

1044
01:08:52,229 --> 01:08:55,109
But it ain't enough. It's just not enough.

1045
01:08:55,229 --> 01:09:00,909
And to sort of present it as this is the formula, it's crazy.

1046
01:09:00,909 --> 01:09:05,369
So the idea that these, and no disrespect to the folks that are living and breathing fire out there,

1047
01:09:05,789 --> 01:09:07,969
But my friends, this is not enough.

1048
01:09:08,269 --> 01:09:09,789
I shared this with Adina.

1049
01:09:10,169 --> 01:09:14,409
I always wanted to be to the point that when I got 50, I didn't want to have to work.

1050
01:09:15,169 --> 01:09:19,869
And so honestly, I didn't exactly know how to achieve that.

1051
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:26,049
Then one day during the pandemic, Nick was poking around on the Internet and discovered the FIRE movement,

1052
01:09:26,049 --> 01:09:32,749
which led him to Camp Fi, a group of hardcore savers and careful spenders who share tips, tricks,

1053
01:09:32,749 --> 01:09:37,649
and philosophical discourse with basically one goal, to get out of the rat race.

1054
01:09:38,049 --> 01:09:44,469
It's all inspired by this guy, blogger Mr. Money Mustache, also known as Peter Adeny.

1055
01:09:44,869 --> 01:09:48,929
American life is so inefficient, but we're all just kind of following each other,

1056
01:09:48,989 --> 01:09:54,229
what each other does, and not realizing where all of this time and money is slipping through our hands.

1057
01:09:54,789 --> 01:09:59,909
So start doing things that are different from what other people do would probably be the first piece of advice.

1058
01:10:00,809 --> 01:10:04,429
Tell me these people are not primed to be Bitcoiners.

1059
01:10:05,329 --> 01:10:06,229
I mean, this is wild.

1060
01:10:06,429 --> 01:10:09,549
To think that maybe, you know, they got started during the pandemic,

1061
01:10:09,649 --> 01:10:11,789
they could have just as likely come across Bitcoin.

1062
01:10:12,089 --> 01:10:15,989
Aideny retired at 30 and turned 50 this year.

1063
01:10:16,269 --> 01:10:18,429
I often think that because I retired so early,

1064
01:10:18,909 --> 01:10:22,289
I've lived a lot longer than a normal 50-year-old.

1065
01:10:22,289 --> 01:10:26,329
I feel like I retired 100 years ago because I've had so many experiences.

1066
01:10:26,509 --> 01:10:29,369
It's a great antidote to the usual thing where people say

1067
01:10:29,369 --> 01:10:34,789
life goes by too fast and you miss it. However, it doesn't solve your happiness problems. You know,

1068
01:10:34,949 --> 01:10:38,809
one of my friends who's also a blogger says like he still had to confront some,

1069
01:10:38,929 --> 01:10:44,669
some demons and some emotional issues and taking away his job, just exposed them more because he

1070
01:10:44,669 --> 01:10:50,609
could no longer distract himself from them. The key to saving for retirement, according to Aideny,

1071
01:10:50,709 --> 01:10:55,789
is to figure out what's important to you and trim your spending everywhere else.

1072
01:10:55,789 --> 01:11:04,269
You know, as you start to elaborate what's important, you realize, like, I'm going to minimize the amount of money I've spent because that's my life energy.

1073
01:11:04,469 --> 01:11:11,269
And there's some formula that arises in your mind of, like, the less I spend, the more life I have.

1074
01:11:11,729 --> 01:11:12,369
Oh, my goodness.

1075
01:11:12,489 --> 01:11:13,309
They're so close.

1076
01:11:13,589 --> 01:11:15,829
They're so, so close.

1077
01:11:16,689 --> 01:11:21,929
They're so close to understanding that when you save money, you're saving the future.

1078
01:11:22,049 --> 01:11:24,609
You're saving your energy today for the future.

1079
01:11:24,609 --> 01:11:25,549
and if you put it

1080
01:11:25,549 --> 01:11:26,489
into something like Bitcoin,

1081
01:11:26,629 --> 01:11:28,009
it grows in value.

1082
01:11:28,789 --> 01:11:29,269
See, these people,

1083
01:11:29,389 --> 01:11:29,749
they're all like,

1084
01:11:30,109 --> 01:11:30,549
they're all like,

1085
01:11:30,609 --> 01:11:31,609
well, put it in an index fund

1086
01:11:31,609 --> 01:11:33,609
or put it in a CD

1087
01:11:33,609 --> 01:11:35,069
or put it in a savings account.

1088
01:11:35,869 --> 01:11:36,589
Like, they're just,

1089
01:11:36,689 --> 01:11:38,169
they're missing this piece.

1090
01:11:38,489 --> 01:11:50,877
Vicki Robin is a sort of mythical figure in the FIRE movement as the co of the 1992 personal finance book Your Money or Your Life I guess this must be their Sefa Dean their Bitcoin standard author

1091
01:11:51,117 --> 01:11:52,117
With Joe Dominguez.

1092
01:11:52,637 --> 01:11:58,157
Robin's philosophy is less about early retirement and more about asking what is enough,

1093
01:11:58,697 --> 01:12:00,557
which differs for everyone.

1094
01:12:00,957 --> 01:12:03,817
But the consensus of the FIRE movement is to retire,

1095
01:12:03,817 --> 01:12:07,877
you have to save and invest 25 times your yearly expenses.

1096
01:12:07,877 --> 01:12:11,857
and then live off a 4% drawdown each year.

1097
01:12:11,977 --> 01:12:15,517
So these folks are trying to get a 25X every year.

1098
01:12:17,057 --> 01:12:19,617
And how do they not know about Bitcoin?

1099
01:12:20,237 --> 01:12:24,497
What I don't get is I did this little exercise recently.

1100
01:12:24,637 --> 01:12:30,317
I was like, okay, what if I had $1,000 and, you know, you could insert any number,

1101
01:12:30,657 --> 01:12:34,457
and I wanted to get the best return over a five-year period,

1102
01:12:34,457 --> 01:12:40,437
And I looked at everything and nothing was likely to outperform Bitcoin over a five year period.

1103
01:12:40,537 --> 01:12:51,297
Nothing. And I mean, you can you can also perform this exercise is you can find ways to plug in the numbers and try to find an asset or a stock or anything that will outperform Bitcoin.

1104
01:12:51,297 --> 01:12:58,317
Like there may be a window of time where NVIDIA is ripping harder, but on average, nothing beats Bitcoin.

1105
01:12:58,997 --> 01:13:00,437
So how do they not discover this?

1106
01:13:00,477 --> 01:13:02,937
For people that are looking for a 25x return,

1107
01:13:03,417 --> 01:13:08,597
you'd think these people would be drawn to Bitcoin as the solution to their problems.

1108
01:13:08,597 --> 01:13:11,697
But they seem to, for the most part, miss it.

1109
01:13:11,757 --> 01:13:15,137
To save and invest 25 times your yearly expenses,

1110
01:13:15,617 --> 01:13:19,097
and then live off a 4% drawdown each year.

1111
01:13:19,377 --> 01:13:24,317
It's just, okay, how can I have enough for life that's really happy but no excess,

1112
01:13:24,317 --> 01:13:31,637
so that I can liberate my time to do what I find I'm called to do, what I care to do.

1113
01:13:31,677 --> 01:13:33,257
And you know, that evolves over time.

1114
01:13:33,257 --> 01:13:38,257
I have a little phrase that I've said, I buy my freedom with my frugality every day.

1115
01:13:38,777 --> 01:13:43,537
A frugality, Nick and Adina Johnson say, they are now reaping the rewards.

1116
01:13:44,097 --> 01:13:46,837
I actually want to pause it here because I wanted to go back to what she says here.

1117
01:13:47,757 --> 01:13:50,377
I'm called to do what I care to do.

1118
01:13:50,417 --> 01:13:51,997
And you know, that evolves over time.

1119
01:13:51,997 --> 01:13:56,917
I have a little phrase that I've said, I buy my freedom with my frugality every day.

1120
01:13:57,377 --> 01:13:59,157
I kind of, I agree with her here.

1121
01:13:59,237 --> 01:14:06,977
Like I, I, I minimize my spending so I can stack sats and I look at any extra money we

1122
01:14:06,977 --> 01:14:11,817
do have, you know, besides some buffer, put that towards sats, especially now.

1123
01:14:11,817 --> 01:14:14,857
Like it's just, it's, it's not getting cheaper, not over the longterm.

1124
01:14:15,297 --> 01:14:21,677
And I view that as a way of like essentially storing future purchasing power, future energy,

1125
01:14:21,677 --> 01:14:23,037
converting it back to energy.

1126
01:14:23,737 --> 01:14:26,237
And I guess that's sort of her look at it,

1127
01:14:26,477 --> 01:14:28,117
but how are they getting this 25X?

1128
01:14:28,677 --> 01:14:31,517
A frugality Nick and Adina Johnson say

1129
01:14:31,517 --> 01:14:33,537
they are now reaping the rewards from,

1130
01:14:33,917 --> 01:14:35,277
along with their three children.

1131
01:14:35,837 --> 01:14:39,077
A life less defined by the stuff they possess

1132
01:14:39,077 --> 01:14:41,877
and more by the freedom they enjoy.

1133
01:14:42,057 --> 01:14:44,317
I guess it feels like their narrative here is

1134
01:14:44,317 --> 01:14:48,177
clip coupons, put 300,000 miles on your car,

1135
01:14:48,857 --> 01:14:51,237
don't go out to eat, which, okay,

1136
01:14:51,677 --> 01:14:56,757
and save harder, and you can retire early, and everybody's smiling.

1137
01:14:57,297 --> 01:15:03,757
And it's this example of this near early or close to retirement investor

1138
01:15:03,757 --> 01:15:07,417
who, you know, looks back and says, well, this is all you need to do.

1139
01:15:07,477 --> 01:15:08,537
Look, just follow this recipe.

1140
01:15:08,697 --> 01:15:09,377
It's really simple.

1141
01:15:09,377 --> 01:15:12,397
And, you know, buy some index funds and maybe buy some NVIDIA.

1142
01:15:13,157 --> 01:15:17,217
You know, make good choices on the stock market at just the right time,

1143
01:15:17,257 --> 01:15:18,017
and you'll be fine.

1144
01:15:18,617 --> 01:15:20,077
They're going to always remember this trip to Disney,

1145
01:15:20,077 --> 01:15:23,117
But they're not going to remember, you know, the extra pair of tennis shoes I bought my son.

1146
01:15:23,117 --> 01:15:26,877
My son's not going to look at me like, hey dad, remember that blazer you had on?

1147
01:15:26,877 --> 01:15:28,557
Man, it was awesome.

1148
01:15:28,557 --> 01:15:30,397
What do y'all have planned for the rest of the day?

1149
01:15:30,397 --> 01:15:31,757
What's it look like?

1150
01:15:31,757 --> 01:15:33,197
I'm jealous, whatever it is.

1151
01:15:34,557 --> 01:15:35,597
What is it, mama?

1152
01:15:35,597 --> 01:15:39,917
Well, I have to pick up the kids and then I have to take my son to football practice.

1153
01:15:39,917 --> 01:15:44,157
And then whatever grocery shopping I may have needed to do while I was doing this interview,

1154
01:15:44,157 --> 01:15:46,477
I need to go ahead and get some of that grocery shopping done.

1155
01:15:46,477 --> 01:15:47,997
Doesn't sound like she needs my help for any of that.

1156
01:15:47,997 --> 01:15:48,957
I'll probably go play golf.

1157
01:15:50,077 --> 01:15:52,357
Seems like one of you is more retired than the other one.

1158
01:15:53,017 --> 01:15:54,997
I mean, come on.

1159
01:15:55,037 --> 01:15:55,617
They're close.

1160
01:15:55,737 --> 01:15:57,197
They're so close to being Bitcoiners.

1161
01:15:57,337 --> 01:15:58,017
They're so close.

1162
01:15:58,517 --> 01:16:01,977
They just are missing that one key piece, knowing about Bitcoin.

1163
01:16:12,637 --> 01:16:13,197
All right.

1164
01:16:13,257 --> 01:16:17,137
We've been a little negative about old Michael Saylor recently.

1165
01:16:17,777 --> 01:16:18,317
I don't know.

1166
01:16:18,877 --> 01:16:20,077
I think people get a little tired.

1167
01:16:20,517 --> 01:16:32,944
But I wanted our final clip of the week to have a little energy And we have joked before about Bitcoin being a swarm of cyber hornets It a meme that Michael Saylor started but he never really I think defined it until this week

1168
01:16:33,024 --> 01:16:45,284
And so we finally got in Saylor's definition of why Bitcoin is like a swarm of cyber hornets, which I have to be honest, I guess I don't hate the analogy after hearing the explanation.

1169
01:16:45,424 --> 01:16:46,064
Let me know what you think.

1170
01:16:46,984 --> 01:16:49,084
You know, Bitcoin is a virus.

1171
01:16:49,084 --> 01:16:50,544
It's a freedom virus.

1172
01:16:50,784 --> 01:16:52,844
It's based on a monetary virus.

1173
01:16:52,964 --> 01:16:55,364
that's in turn based on a truth virus.

1174
01:16:55,964 --> 01:16:58,084
And we think of it as a swarm creature

1175
01:16:58,084 --> 01:16:59,624
because everywhere in the world,

1176
01:17:00,064 --> 01:17:02,584
there's someone that's supporting the Bitcoin ecosystem

1177
01:17:02,584 --> 01:17:04,884
with their electricity, their computer power,

1178
01:17:05,024 --> 01:17:07,304
their political power, their economic power.

1179
01:17:07,744 --> 01:17:09,584
And it's about as unstoppable

1180
01:17:09,584 --> 01:17:12,104
as a swarm of hornets are unstoppable.

1181
01:17:12,444 --> 01:17:14,404
You can't shoot a bullet through it.

1182
01:17:14,604 --> 01:17:16,724
It's spreading all throughout the world

1183
01:17:16,724 --> 01:17:19,024
and it just keeps getting stronger day by day,

1184
01:17:19,124 --> 01:17:20,444
week by week, month by month.

1185
01:17:20,444 --> 01:17:22,204
This is something you told us was going to happen

1186
01:17:22,204 --> 01:17:23,584
for the last few years.

1187
01:17:34,784 --> 01:17:37,024
Let's check in on the state of the network

1188
01:17:37,024 --> 01:17:38,244
before I get out of here.

1189
01:17:38,424 --> 01:17:41,844
The episode's wrapping up at block height 908,906.

1190
01:17:42,524 --> 01:17:46,864
The current USD price for a Bitcoin is $115,120.

1191
01:17:47,644 --> 01:17:52,024
That puts our sats per dollar at 869 sats to one US dollar.

1192
01:17:52,204 --> 01:18:03,204
We are down right now 6.5% from our all-time high of $123,180, which was 23 days ago on July 14, 2025.

1193
01:18:04,304 --> 01:18:05,564
Now, let's take a look.

1194
01:18:05,684 --> 01:18:10,604
Let's see our next difficulty retarget date is the 8th, still on target for a 0.2 increase.

1195
01:18:11,344 --> 01:18:15,104
There are 23,343 nodes online.

1196
01:18:15,204 --> 01:18:15,724
Not bad.

1197
01:18:16,304 --> 01:18:16,824
Not bad.

1198
01:18:16,964 --> 01:18:17,704
And knots.

1199
01:18:18,044 --> 01:18:18,924
Let's check in on knots.

1200
01:18:19,644 --> 01:18:21,584
Climbing up to 15.4%.

1201
01:18:21,584 --> 01:18:25,564
So I think it had just cracked 15-0 last episode.

1202
01:18:25,784 --> 01:18:28,284
So I wonder if next episode we'll see it at 16.

1203
01:18:28,824 --> 01:18:30,424
So 15.4% for knots.

1204
01:18:30,464 --> 01:18:31,804
It is climbing really fast.

1205
01:18:32,644 --> 01:18:36,804
Looking over everything else, the state of the network is, in fact, quite strong.

1206
01:18:36,804 --> 01:18:53,684
now links to what i talked about today will be over at thisweekinbitcoin.show that takes you to

1207
01:18:53,684 --> 01:18:59,744
our page on our site for all the this week in bitcoin episodes my goal let me know how i did

1208
01:18:59,744 --> 01:19:03,844
is to create a show that doesn't get distracted by emotions around what's happening but just keeps

1209
01:19:03,844 --> 01:19:08,184
it focused on the signal, gets the information you know, gives you something to say to your

1210
01:19:08,184 --> 01:19:13,184
Bitcoin hater friends out there. I can't believe I'd never debunked that particular line of attack,

1211
01:19:13,564 --> 01:19:17,524
the greater fool theory. Let me know what you think of that one too. Send a boost in. Also,

1212
01:19:17,564 --> 01:19:21,204
if I missed something, love to hear from you that way. And of course, apologies if I missed your

1213
01:19:21,204 --> 01:19:27,864
boost this week. That's going to be with me for a while. Big apologies there. I hope we didn't miss

1214
01:19:27,864 --> 01:19:32,764
too many. I don't think so. So let me know. Let me know. And of course, please consider boosting

1215
01:19:32,764 --> 01:19:37,424
you next episode, see if we can't make next week a little stronger now that we have the situation

1216
01:19:37,424 --> 01:19:42,284
all sorted out. I'll leave you right here with just me. No value for value track this week,

1217
01:19:42,324 --> 01:19:44,784
but I think that'll be back next week as well. So I'm pretty excited about that.

1218
01:19:45,064 --> 01:19:49,704
This will be our last traditional outro. So I hope you enjoy it. This is one of the last times you

1219
01:19:49,704 --> 01:19:55,084
hear it. Well, at least unless I do a live show. I think I might use this for live shows one day,

1220
01:19:55,204 --> 01:19:59,184
too, which may happen in the near future. Another reason to get a podcast to you.

1221
01:19:59,184 --> 01:20:01,824
All right. Thanks for joining me. See you right back here.

1222
01:20:02,764 --> 01:20:03,544
next week.

1223
01:20:32,764 --> 01:21:02,744
Thank you.

1224
01:21:02,764 --> 01:21:32,744
Thank you.