happy friday and if you're like me and you work in austria and bitcoin every day is a friday happy
happy every day is how i roll that's how radio detox began i was still in fiat world uh trying
to get out it's been around for almost a year and a half now so welcome what i'm going to start
doing is putting the podcast out on fridays so you have it for the weekend and this weekend
seemed like the best weekend to do it because it's Super Bowl Sunday in the US and maybe I'll
do something Super Bowl oriented. I actually have no plans because my plans got ruined.
I was going to go see Rustin Kelly at the Crescent Ballroom here in Phoenix and that got canceled
because apparently you probably shouldn't slate a show for Super Bowl Sunday. So enjoy the new
cadence of Radio Detox coming out on Fridays. Today I'm talking to one of my favorite Bitcoiners
a little biased here because I'm going to be a little partial to the folks who do journalism
in this space since I spend so much time doing big media journalism myself over the years. And
I'm talking about Frank Korba. This guy went from covering the president to covering some protocols
and open sourcing the journalism, right? So in this episode of Radio Detox, our former White House
correspondent frank korba is sharing his unexpected path to bitcoin journalism the burnout that comes
with 24 7 news cycles i have some things to say about that too and why frank sees nostril as the
next frontier for independent media which which i that's a view i share so we get candid here i
love this conversation with frank i think this is the best conversation i've had yet on radio detox
we're digging into Bitcoin circular economies around the world.
Why onboarding people is mattering more than ever.
I know that's cliche to say it matters more than ever.
But stay with us here.
The focus in the world is shifting.
There's a seismic shift in the world going on.
So we're going to talk about a lot of these things.
And also, due to a recent article that Frank wrote
and some subsequent hate he received for it on the Deadbird app,
We're going to talk about the unique challenges women are facing in open source development and the DIY ethos, ethos, ethos and pathos of punk rock and how that mirrors the decentralized spirit of Bitcoin.
And Frank has, I think, some little bit of gonzo journalism, maybe some experience in the punk rock scene, some experience in the music scene.
We're going to find out how far Frank goes back with bands like Black Volcanite.
I'm not even kidding you.
And the one and only Sam Means.
We love you, Means, if you're listening.
I don't think you have time to listen.
So Means, of course, back on tour with the format and the CEO of Wavelake.
But there's a bigger story always.
Sam is too quiet.
We never quite know things about Sam, what he's up to, but Frank has a story about Sam that goes way back.
So we're going to get into all of that, and I'm going to play most of the music at the end.
But let's kick it off with a song.
Let's do two songs, actually, because since I mentioned Black Vulcanite, we've got to play Black Vulcanite.
I'm never going to pass up an excuse to play Black Vulcanite on Radio Detox.
I've played them a couple times so far.
So we'll kick things off with them.
And also Ainsley Costello.
We get into the conversation of the great article that Frank wrote that mentioned a lot of our value for value artists in this space.
And, you know, just the fact that he covered it for Forbes is something that I will always appreciate.
And he he loves all of these artists that I've just mentioned, and especially Ainsley, who was the first first million sats artist in this space.
And your next chance to see Ainsley Costello entertain all of us in this space is going to be March 15th in Washington, D.C. at Pub Key.
We've got a big old after party that we're planning after the Runster District 5K.
So you can start your day with a 5K March 15th in D.C.
Get all the details.
Register for the race.
It's a charity race.
I'll get into more detail later on about the charities.
Oh, hell, let's just do it.
Chimes International, HRF, and the ALS Network.
So this is your chance to take part in the 5K in D.C.
and decide which of those three charities I just mentioned get a nice $500 prize
for having the most people choosing that charity as the source,
the recipient, I guess, for your 5K run.
And that's March 15th in D.C.
So after you do the 5K race, we're all heading over to PubKey,
in Washington, D.C.
The race is at Haines Point
and Pub Key just a few miles away.
This is going to be a gorgeous Sunday.
I mentioned cherry blossoms in bloom.
Beautiful flat course.
You run your 5K on this lovely
scenic flat course in D.C.
Then we go to Pub Key.
We're going to see Ainsley Costello
perform at noon.
I want you all there.
All you mid-Atlantic, eastern seaboard folks,
New Yorkers, Pennsylvania,
Virginia, come on, check in.
Come down to Pub Key and see this lady perform live.
Am I in too deep?
Is there something wrong with me?
I'm in trouble.
I know it's out of control.
So I put it on a shelf.
That that would really help
But it caught up to me
Can't hide it, it seems
I'm coming clean
I've got a U problem
If you're an ocean
I'll sink to the water
You're on my mind
It's no big deal, it's just all of the time
And I don't know how to solve the U problem
Didn't ask for this
Wasn't on the list
If I knew you were coming, could have been more prepared
But that's just how it goes
Guess no one really knows
Plan accordingly
But then you need someone like you
Now I've got a you problem
If you're an ocean I'll sink to the bottom
You're on my mind, it's no big deal
It's just all of the time
And I don't know how to solve it
You, the blend
Call me what you like
And you know that I'll come with you
Even if I try
I don't think that this is something I could ever keep in play
I can't keep pushing you away
If you're the one I never saw, I don't think I care at all
Yeah, I've got a you problem
If you're an ocean, I'll sink to the bottom
Yeah, I've got a you problem
I love you, you're innocent
I'm free to the border
You're on my mind
It's how many things
It's just all of the time
But I don't wanna solve it
You forever
So I want you to hide
I know that I come running to you
Call me what you love
I think that could be something
Yeah, I want to do something
So I'm coming clean
She's praying at the altar, waiting for God, waiting for God
Death songs are escape, she's not waiting for long, waiting for long
She knows it's gonna cross her, but she always buys in, living through sin
At the end of the day, at the end of the day
Meet a single mother of five, trying to stay alive and thrive
As she deep dives, swim ocean and builds, a highly skilled worker
Sometimes substitute twerker, she entertains men
And at night by candlelight she always scripted the pen
Memoirs of who she then was before she met him
A fine young man with patriarchy in his denim
He wandered and danded a couple of months and left her pregnant
He wasn't the first and he surely wasn't the last
Aging face a reflection as she cleaning the glass
Finally caught a break and she moved to the city
Where she worked a good job as the head of committees
But pity wasn't enough though as death followed her
And death followed her around down
She lost her youngest
Then grief grew like a fungus
None to be seen
Previously had friends in abundance
She's lost but she keeps moving on
She keeps moving on strong
Head held high to the start
She's praying at the altar
Waiting for God, waiting for God
Blessings are at stake
She's not waiting for long, waiting for long
She knows it's gonna cost her
But she always buys in
Living to a sin at the end of the day, at the end of the day
I'm having late night conversations with my internal
I know she thinking them thoughts too
Forever living the inferno
I was a princess, she daddy's little girl
Her life don't always work out just how you want it to
These fat dudes spew sexist remarks like
Hey bitch, come here ho
Here's 250, you cook a dance at my table
She tell them no touch, but they would always grab a handful
She tell them no rush, but yo, there's always a private room
But that's gon' cost you an extra 500 bucks
She don't like what she doing, the money don't fuck
She cop whatever she run, put up with all the slanderin' drunks
But really I just think she's looking for a way out
She got a sugar daddy with whom she can go and play count
But little does she know that that nigga's ass about to sin in
He and the women, plenty by standards that men live in
He hit him raw, for real fam, no second thought
See, they all thought they was the worm, but uh, second thought
He had a bow, one, two, three and to the fall
A broken heart ain't nothing compared to a life blown
Stay up mama, recognize that you almost home
She's praying at the altar
Waiting for God, waiting for God
Blessings are a saint
She's not waiting for long, waiting for long
She knows it's gonna cost her
But she always buys in, living through sin
At the end of the day, at the end of the day
She suffered a setback
Her color is jet black
Her skin color's like jet black
Like a white girl that cuts herself just to feel alive
She claims she an orphan but parents are still alive
Feels alone, she talks to her gran on the telephone
Life is inside out, it's something like palindrome
She took all she owns, backpacked the roads alone
All she's ever want is acceptance to call her home
But she can't trust them, they see her breasts but can't touch them
Lost woman, raised by patriarchy's bad customs
Got accustomed to the cat calling
She turned them down but they kept calling
She disappears into the night falling
Dazed by the lights, gazed by the cries Of mothers who fell for the lies of her lover's
goodbye Had a cousin of mine, had to do the fuck with her mind
Looking for direction in her life, there's no thing alone
She don't understand how divine she is, how defined she is
She been lost, but at least now she fine for years
She's praying at the altar, waiting for God, waiting for God
Her blessings are expected, she's not waiting for long, waiting for long
She knows it's gonna cost her, but she always buys in, living through sin, at the end of the day, at the end of the day.
Is there a God, or is there just a universal truth?
Radio Detox is back with a guest who needs no introduction, but we will give the introduction.
Anyway, you know Frank Korva from being a White House correspondent, working with Bitcoin magazine, working with Forbes.
And I think you wrote one of the first really great articles about music in Bitcoin and Noster and what artists were doing for Forbes
So welcome to Radio Detox, Frank Korva, one of our favorite journalists in this space. How are you, Frank?
Doing well. Thank you so much for having me on. Much appreciated. Thank you for the kind introduction.
Oh, I'm so glad to have you. You know, we've been reading you for a while.
And you did, I guess, you're still involved with Bitcoin magazine, but you kind of left, I think, to kind of, I don't know.
Did I recall something maybe about burnout or I think you're just moving on to something else?
A little bit tired.
It was probably, I was probably doing a little bit too much overall between traveling back and forth to D.C. almost every other week.
And then plus international travel and the conferences we do and everything else.
It was probably all a little bit too much.
But I also hit a point. I don't know. I just tend to listen to my body when I get to points where it just seems like there's a moment now where it feels like it's time to move on.
It took me a while to get to that point because obviously, like, who in a billion years would have ever thought Bitcoin magazine would have a White House correspondent, much less would that be me?
Just a very sort of surreal situation. So I think part of it is just like it took me a minute to fully say, like, am I really going to move on from this?
And it's hard. Some days I wonder if I made the right decisions. I mean, I left off on good terms at Bitcoin magazine. So when people come to me with some news to break, I'll still I'll happily do it for them. I do have to say, though, it has been nice to take a break from the news cycle and even politics. I'm not a big political person. And it's nice to sort of step back from that a little bit.
I've been there. I left TV in 2021. I literally got sick and couldn't do it anymore. I'd had COVID and I was extremely ill. I had undiagnosed asthma. It was the perfect storm where it was like, I don't think I can go back to the newsroom.
And at the time, you know, we were very shorthanded because of the pandemic.
And so I was often producing two news shows a night.
And it was just it was too much.
And so I get that.
News is very draining.
I don't think people realize what a haul that is on a, you know, 24 hour news cycle.
Seems like it's almost a 15 minute news cycle sometimes.
And the White House is that is a whole other level.
That is that is not a tea party cakewalk fun.
I have a friend who did the White House correspondent thing as well.
I have a friend Jamie, and it did not sound fun.
It did not.
It's obviously a great career peak, and you did it well.
And did you learn anything from having to be, you know, at the White House?
Yeah, I want to shout out the staff there, and not that I, you know, like that they're listening to all my podcasts or something.
But I do want to mention it because there was, you know, we are at this really interesting moment where, you know, what you're doing as a podcaster or what we're doing as independent creators, you know, whether you like or dislike the Trump administration.
And I'm sure many people listening have mixed feelings at best.
You know, there's there's he tends to be polarizing.
And I think he knows that.
So I'm not saying anything sort of out of the ordinary here.
But I will say one thing they did really, really well was so for Trump's first hundred days, they only had non-mainstream media come to the White House.
So I was next to some guy who was like running a podcast in Pennsylvania as I'm sitting in a room with like Howard Lutnick and Bo Hines interviewing them.
And whether you like or dislike the administration, that was, I think, a very, very smart move.
The signaling to sort of the world out there. We understand that the media landscape is changing.
So we're going to invite people in. Just very, very smart.
And I think, you know, I'm not going to get political here, but it's something that I hope Democrats are taking note of.
I think with Democrats, there tends to be a little bit more of like an ivory tower thing.
Like, well, the specialists are here and only these people from The Wall Street Journal or Bloomberg or whoever could possibly know what they're talking about.
And that wasn't so much the vibe with the administration.
So I will say from like as a DIY enthusiast, as a believer in like if you want to do something, just do it.
And then you could potentially even get invited to the White House.
There is something very, very cool about that.
Again, whether you like Trump or don't like Trump.
So that part was great.
But even being in there was a moment I'd gone to the press room for a few different things.
But there was a moment where Carolyn Levitt did call on me and I asked about the the minimus exemption. And even in that moment, that seat that I was sitting in was specifically designated for new media. And that was literally in the front of the press room.
So it's like there really is something sort of interesting to take note of there in terms of like, yeah, we're going to give some space to this.
And I'm not I don't have a history as like a political correspondent.
So it wasn't like, you know, they were they were like, oh, Frank seems to be like a MAGA enthusiast or something.
We'll just sit him in the front like there's no evidence of that in anything I've ever written.
It just was a genuine opportunity to sort of have some different new media in the room.
Granted, David Bailey, you know, was obviously involved in some fundraising for Trump and the administration.
So there was like, I guess, some love in that regard.
But nobody was screening my questions.
Nobody was telling me to ask pro-Trump questions.
And that part of it, I think having played the long game as a writer and as someone doing media and tried to sort of remain sort of integral and to not get too political and to not cut corners and to just do bombastic things to get more likes and clicks.
It felt good to have that opportunity to actually be in such a place and to have done it in a way that felt integral to who I am.
Yeah, and I appreciate that. I appreciate that the Trump administration did that because there is an ivory tower. There is an old guard to journalism. There is, you know, having worked at it, there are a lot of people who stick around and they linger when I think new blood could be brought in and certainly people with new perspectives.
And I think the old guard is protected. You know, I've seen younger, more diverse people come into journalism who probably do a better job than the old guard.
The award winning, you know, they're doing great stories. They're breaking great stories.
And, you know, the old guard still remains. And it's like, well, the old guard doesn't have, you know, without naming any names, the old guard doesn't have all of these, you know, awards.
They're not, you know, capturing certain headlines, but they're still there, like tenured professors.
And, you know, it gets stale.
Same vibe, totally.
Yeah.
We live in a time where I don't think we can afford to do that anymore if we want to hold on to our democracy.
We really need to get new life, not just in journalism, but in politics as well.
We need to, you know, not to be like ageist and mean about a certain generation, but I think the writing is on the wall.
And we are seeing things change, like Barry Weiss taking over CBS after the success with the free press.
And, you know, that's certainly an incendiary situation if you follow the headlines about that.
And I enjoy reading the free press and actually pay for it.
And, you know, good journalism should be paid for.
And I think original reporting should be paid for.
If we like that, we need to put our money into it.
And, you know, it's like $10 a month for me to pay for the free press.
And, you know, that's on Substack. You know, that's that's one way of paying for quality journalism. I would love to see more journalists get onto Noster like yourself.
Be fantastic. I've been there. I've been doing some stuff. I have to say the one thing that's hard. So I write a Substack each week and I've done so.
That's how I got into Bitcoin or started putting content out five years ago now.
So part of the reason I write the Substack, and I have transferred some of the pieces over, I think two of them from Substack through Highlighter, I think I've used as a Nostra client.
It's a little, so it's not great yet.
The UX for Highlighter isn't perfect.
There's usually a bunch of glitches that I have to deal with as I do it.
That's not an excuse.
Don't get me wrong.
It's just a matter of like, sometimes I have, it's just what it is.
But that's the opportunity, right?
We're at that point where it feels very much like early, early internet.
Like we're remaking the internet with Nostra, which I love. Don't get me wrong. Some of it is just sort of like, OK, I did this post today here and then here and then here. Now, do I want to like do all this again on highlighter? Just laziness on my part. Don't get me wrong. Or just like I'm tired.
There's tedious. Exactly. That's the word. It's tedious sometimes. But I think that the opportunity there, people, I usually get zapped for it when I do provide value there.
I always like when I covered the samurai stuff and things like that, you know, I would make, you know, tons of sats doing stuff like this.
And it felt like I don't see how people don't see that opportunity, whether you're an artist or whether you're a journalist or whatever.
The only thing I would say is I've had this conversation with a lot of people who have bigger X handles.
And I think Nostar has, what, maybe 40,000, 50,000 active weekly users, maybe more at this point.
Something around there, daily or weekly.
It's hard to tell, I think, because of relays, but that's another story.
Totally.
But I think part of it is just simply reach.
It's once that reach becomes bigger and bigger and more people come to Nostar, I think no doubt it will get more people will use it.
I think right now also difficulty of user interface.
I think Primal is probably the best.
I think Dom is also quite good.
But again, like I said, with Highlighter, I've done stuff and there's glitches and I have to go back and fix stuff and this and that.
I'm happy.
I think in a year, two, three, all of this stuff will be much, much better.
So right now I say to people, like, deal with some of the pain.
Even if you're just cross-posting, you post something on X, there's no harm in posting it on Nostra as well.
But I think right now it's sort of network effects that we're battling with.
How do we develop network effects on Nostra versus X?
The thing we're missing is the network effect right now and bringing people into Nostra, retaining them and getting them to kind of to onboard and get that wallet and find that content that you're like, great, I found this great reporter, Frank Korva, and he's covering the samurai trial.
And I'm very into this news story and I must follow this and I must sign the petition.
I need to know everything about it.
And I'm so appreciative of Frank.
Frank, here's 450 sats because I read you today.
Like that's where we'll get.
It could be 21 sats.
It could be 2,100 sats.
I love seeing people post content, whatever it is, and somebody says, oh, here you go.
Here's 21,000 sats.
And it's like, the system, I guess we don't have a system per se.
The protocol.
The protocol is working.
We're able to support one another in our own new value-for-value Bitcoin circular economy.
It's the biggest Bitcoin circular economy in the world is Noster.
Yeah.
Actually, I think I think I I don't know if I coined that, but I published that piece for Bitcoin magazine.
It was because I'm sort of envious of the Bitcoin circular economies, which I cover a lot for Forbes.
I've been to five of them, four of them in Africa and one in Latin America.
And, you know, there's a sort of because of the gray area that exists there.
Nobody's really going after people for like capital gains because they're spending Bitcoin or something like that.
I think in the United States, it's going to be different, especially for businesses that are accepting it would block.
We need the de minimis exemption because these businesses, well, not that the businesses are spending it, but for the average person who's maybe using Cash App to spend it, who's going to have to report on that Bitcoin disappearing from their wallet, it's a real issue.
I think with Nostar, I don't think any of us are raking in like tens of thousands of dollars with it. So I don't think we're at any sort of, yeah, nor spending tens of thousands of dollars. So I don't think we're in any sort of danger there. Yeah, but it feels like the one place where globally, if somebody does something that's interesting, provides value, etc., where you could just very, very quickly tap on a button, somebody's getting zapped for what they did. That's the way I want to see Bitcoin work. That's just the way we want value to flow the same way information flows.
And Noster, I think for people, I just onboarded a Japanese artist. I was a musician for many, many years and I recorded a record in Japan and she did the cover art for my record and her husband and I went to grad school together. Yeah. And I onboarded her and just said like, look, you put all your stuff on Instagram, just like download Noster Build, put all your stuff here. Not download, use Noster Build, put all your stuff here on, just post your paintings here.
And I think the first time she posted, she made, I don't know, maybe 20, 30 bucks worth of Bitcoin, whatever that was at the time, you know, tens of thousands of sets.
And she was just like, OK, the hardest part with all of it.
Get it.
Yeah, I think it's just the hurdle of what's a Noster?
What's a Bitcoin wallet?
What's a this?
What's a that?
And it's too much at once.
That's yeah, that's unfamiliar.
100% and I think people end up thinking it's more difficult than it is to get started like for I've
heard the argument I actually interviewed Will from Damas at PubKey a few months back and he said
something like Primal isn't a Nostra client and I don't even remember what his reason was but he
was saying because of the way it's set up yeah and like the the way the relays are set up uh where
they're not whatever it is his argument was like no it's not a Nostra I'm just like dude it's like
I think about Primal like BlinkWallet.
You could argue that some people say custodial Bitcoin isn't Bitcoin.
It's still a good onboarding tool.
Like if you want to move to Iris or Amethyst or some of these other Nostra clients, that's fine.
Do that afterwards.
But you still do need something that feels a little bit like the legacy system, which means like when you start an X account, it's not as glitchy.
It's not glitchy at all.
It's smooth.
And I think Primal is the closest experience that we get to that right now.
I agree.
I there there people who are new to the space, they're not going to understand that there are a plethora of Bitcoin wallets, a plethora of Nostra apps.
And I think Derek Ross and I recently discussed the argument of whether Primal is a Nostra app or not.
I'm sure, you know, Fyajov, the creator of Nostra, has his own viewpoint.
I think a few months ago the argument that Will started was that Primal has some centralization to it in order to operate it has opted in for the high explanation I won give That why I have Derek
for Soapbox sessions. But, you know, that's, I think we get lost in some of these weeds because
we're all so close to Noster and we're involved in building it and we're involved with the
developers who are building it and we're testing things. And so we're contributing in some way.
I think we get lost in the weeds where the general public hears this and goes,
I don't know what that means. And that makes me feel stupid. So I'm not going to care. And in fact,
I'm probably going to hate this because now it's made me feel stupid. And so I think that's one
problem that we have where we have really smart people building really smart things for other
smart people. We've got to remember that the general user, the average mainstream person,
you know, it's February 2nd, it's Groundhog Day. So the mainstream people last night watched the
Grammys. They're excited about the Super Bowl Sunday. They're using Spotify. They're having
their banks hit them up with push notifications right now that you can buy crypto in the app
whippy do and and now that the word crypto is starting to become a thing i have my my normie
friends are like oh my god you're in crypto oh my god i just bought so much xrp and i'm just like
oh you know that's the that's the sticky situation where we're in where people are starting to get
curious and wake up and then they they might pop in a noster and go oh my god what is this okay but
my crypto thing that I'm getting push notifications for on my phone, which is being marketed to
me well in a way that makes sense.
That's waking me up, whereas the Nostra crowd is just difficult and complicated.
And I'm going to have to have a whole conversation or I'm going to want somebody to show me how
to do something like we just need to kind of understand where we are and make it more
simple and digestible and say, OK, first of all, just open a Nostra account, which is
not really technically correct, but it is a way to, you know, parlay it to normies and
say, hey, just get a Noster thing, you know, get it, open it, now you're on Noster, boom.
And then we'll go to the next step.
Because once people see zapping and experience zapping, I find that they can't wait to zap
other people.
They don't get excited about receiving the money.
They get excited about sharing it with other people.
I don't know if you've seen the same thing.
Yeah, I think both.
It's actually funny.
The person who I've probably seen the most excited about this is Leopoldo Lopez, who was one of the Venezuelan opposition leaders.
Yeah, I did an interview with him at PubKia Fireside Chat.
And, you know, it was really interesting.
He was just like he was just he was showing the audience after the stream had ended, like how to zap.
And like most people there probably knew how to do that already.
But I ended up teaching some other Venezuelan activists how to do it.
And he's just like blown away by it.
And I was just like, man, this guy, I lived in Venezuela under Chavez.
So I very much followed Leopoldo Lopez when he went to when he was put under house arrest and prisoned and all this stuff.
And I'm like, if I ever thought that this was the way I would meet this guy, like at a Bitcoin bar and he's thrilled about zapping, like it was just kind of a surreal experience.
But but I think that, again, it's like that ability to transfer money so easily without KYC, without whatever, just literally like I like this thing done.
And it's a quote, Andreas Antonopoulos.
I think he said Bitcoin is better experienced than explained.
And I think Nostra is the same thing.
It's a similar, similar idea.
How long ago did you meet Leopoldo Lopez?
It was last year sometime.
I've done two chats with him, one at an HRF event and one at PubKey since.
And we've been in touch.
So it was about, yeah, about a year ago or so.
I'm curious because I haven't met him, but Soapbox, which is my full time job,
our team was at the HRF AI Hack for Freedom and we were paired with him.
And so we built an app that's now called Agora.
Agora.spot is the, if somebody wants to go check it out and test it right now, we're working on the beta.
And this is something that Leopoldo Lopez and the World Liberty Congress were working on because Twitter's banned in Venezuela.
And they want a way to bring their community together, organize, do some community challenges, and do the zaps.
And the zaps mean a lot more in Venezuela than they do here where I'm at in Phoenix, Arizona, where people are like,
Totally.
Bitcoin.
When is it like my niece one day was, what is the Bitcoin stuff?
Can you show me the Bitcoin stuff?
And, you know, because she got some roundups for her, you know, coffee purchases and cash app.
And so she became curious.
And she's like, OK, yeah, you know, whatever.
And kind of moved on.
But the folks in Venezuela, that's transformative.
And that's, to me, an awe-inspiring story of, you know, it may not mean much to Heather and Frank.
You know, it may not buy a coffee for you or I, but it means so much to somebody else.
in another part of the world. I think that's, broadly speaking,
kind of the magic of Bitcoin. It's like, I'm going to be restarting a podcast I was doing
for a bit before I started at Bitcoin Magazine, where I was mostly interviewing people from
mostly Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, what gets termed the global south,
and also activists, specifically sort of having those conversations in places where I think
Bitcoin is either most beneficial or most needed. Yeah, I just think that what, and I was thinking
about it as I restarted it. And I'm like, I don't want to manage the social media for it. I don't
want to do this. And I was just like, oh, like, you know, I could probably hire someone from like
Bitcoin Dada program. I teach in for African women who are learning about Bitcoin at a rate that
feels good to them. That's worth their time maybe in Kenya or if they're getting there, you know,
if they're just sort of looking to get their feet wet, you know, far more than if I were to go
somewhere here in the States and say, I'm going to pay, you know, however much you have to pay.
And I would rather the money go to someone who feels excited to become a part of the Bitcoin ecosystem, who has this opportunity strictly because of the Internet, strictly because of Bitcoin and strictly because of things like Noster.
So I feel like that's the magic of what Bitcoin is. And I say this as someone I was I've worked for the United Nations.
I taught immigrants for 12 years. I was I was everything from a college lecturer who taught non-native English speakers to an actual ESL teacher in New York public schools.
I've lived in Venezuela.
I've lived in Ghana.
I've lived in Namibia.
So I've seen a lot of programs that are designed to help people, and they do on some level.
But I've never seen anything catalyzed sustainable change like this combination of this new technology, the Freedom Tech stack on the Internet.
And I think the biggest thing that's most beautiful about it is like when you live in I've lived and worked in really poor communities, both here in New York and abroad.
People who don't have as much financial opportunity or are of lower socioeconomic status are actually the most thrifty and frugal.
So my thesis kind of is like, what happens if you sort of infuse that situation?
someone who's willing to like take on opportunities that come their way if you infuse that with these
opportunities plus you know the best money we've ever seen as a human species it's like what starts
to happen they they very very quickly you will have people take this opportunity and run with it
the thing with your niece much like my nieces and nephews and everything else is i don't know i don't
even say this with any sort of condescending tone it's just reality we're steeped in such privilege
here that you don't even realize why you would need something like Bitcoin.
And people sometimes ask me, like, why do you focus outside of the political stuff I
was doing?
Like, why do you focus on Africa, Latin America?
Why don't you do stuff here?
It's because people get it much more quickly when there's a need for it.
I can explain it to someone down the street for me, but their Venmo works fine.
They don't, you know, dollars as much as they've been hurt, you know, inflation has hurt people.
There's still not enough pain for people.
the average person to go and just make this change.
So it's like it's just it's easier if you're going to sort of spread the message,
you want to spread it in a place where you feel like it's going to be received.
So to me, it's just easier to do that in places that have historically been disenfranchised
because people get the solution much more quickly.
You were built for this a lot like I was.
I worked in social work.
You know, you were a teacher.
I worked in the addiction field and social work.
And so I worked in detox, jail, the courthouse, probation, worked with folks on their worst day.
People walking in a detox, they've got nothing, there's no money, they don't even have an ID, and they just want to get off meth or booze or whatever.
Their lives are in disarray.
It's only up from there.
And then you realize that maybe someone's done some time, and therefore they are a U.S. citizen, but a felon, and unbanked.
And watching people get paid with a check and then going, well, I can't put this in a bank.
I've got to go stand in line at, you know, the local check cashing center.
And then I get cash or some cashier's checks.
I've literally watched newly sober addicts save their value, save their money in cashier's checks because they didn't want to have the temptation of having cash on hand.
You know, you can trade a cashier's check for a rock of cocaine.
Yes.
You know, obviously, I've seen that happen. I've seen people trade their EBT card or SS like their Social Security. Like I've seen people do that as well. But when people start to get on the straight and narrow, it's like, how do I remove the temptation?
And also I'm unbanked, which makes it a payroll check kind of, you know, it's difficult.
You get the payroll check and you've got to hang on to this, you know, this proof of work that they have in order to obtain the next thing to maybe, you know, someday get a place to live.
You know, they're not at a place where they need those payroll checks to get loans yet.
They just need a place to live and a proof of a job and a payroll check.
And so I think when you've been there and you've watched people try to function in that world where they don't have the same privileges as the masses, it makes you kind of built for this work where you go, OK, I know there are use cases for Bitcoin in my country.
But me going to talk to all the social workers that I used to work with at the Mental Health Crisis Center and the detox, they're not going to bite into Bitcoin as an idea yet until they see it help their clients.
And I don't think we're there yet. But yeah, you go go to the Global South and you will see it. But I think you have a unique story, you know, just like how you are or how you were built for this. Like you didn't just start out as a correspondent for the White House. You have seen you've seen these these poor neighborhoods like I have and how people are just kind of surviving and people are hand to mouth and maybe not even paycheck to paycheck.
You know, certainly there is a check every month for a good segment of society, but it's certainly not enough either.
There's no saving money.
And I've also seen people on Social Security who are disabled and they're getting that disability income, they will get credit cards.
And, you know, it's like they can't afford to have a credit card.
Like they can't afford to have interest on, you know, an emergency purchase.
And before you know it, they're buried in debt.
And there's just so many clues to the financial system not working.
Do you want to say a little bit more about your background and how you arrived to where you are?
Because I know you've been a Bitcoiner for eight years.
Yeah, eight years now.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think everything I saw was I have most of my clinical social work degree done.
I did 33 of the 60 credits at Hunter here in the city.
And I worked with people in supportive housing, active drug users in supportive housing.
I counseled Holocaust survivors for a while in some of my training.
And I've seen that plus just the work I did before that.
Like I worked developing a trade school in rural Ghana with the Ministry of Education and UNICEF in Namibia.
And then taught in a barrio, like a lower income neighborhood in Venezuela.
So I've seen a bunch of stuff up close where it's you sort of it feels hopeless in terms of like, OK, what's the broader solution to this scenario if there is one?
Yeah, it's I don't right now the problem with Bitcoin, I would say part of it is difficulty of use.
And the fact that one of the things that I've learned from documenting a lot of the work in the circular economies is that you need someone in these communities.
That's very, very that one has a reputation in the community already as a community organizer or an educator or something where they're trusted.
So like Kofi and Bitcoin Dua in Ghana, Hermann Vivier and Bitcoin Akazi, Mike Peterson and Chimbera in Bitcoin Beach.
You need people who aren't just there for the opportunity of getting a grant from Jack Dorsey or Blockstream or something.
They need to have been trying to solve issues in that community for a while.
Like Kofi and Bitcoin Dua has been a community leader for 20 years, and he's probably one of the best Bitcoin circular economy leaders in the world, in my humble opinion.
I've been to Bitcoin Dua.
I was there the day they opened the doors to the education center.
And I just wrote a piece on Forbes for how much far they've come.
And it's mind boggling.
But yeah, just people, you have to have that level of understanding of like what the pain
points are for people, how education is going to work, because it's not only, I say this
a lot, I teach in the Bitcoin.data program, which is a program for African women who want
to learn about Bitcoin.
And I speak with, yeah, it's a great program.
But Lorraine Marcel, who started that program, I speak with her a lot and I try to highlight whatever work she's doing.
Just wrote a piece on a new program she started for female developers called Dada Devs.
And because what you're dealing with when you deal with Bitcoin, it's not just the education about how to use a wallet.
You're discussing probably one of the most personal matters people deal with, which is money.
And there's shame associated with money and not having enough money or not understanding money, not being able to pay your bills.
being, you know, in East Africa,
where a lot of the women from Bitcoin are from you know you can inherit property as a woman There are so many things that have to be addressed And to be the person addressing them is not it not just
cognitively difficult. It's emotionally insanely difficult, insanely difficult. I actually can't do
that anymore. People have asked me to dedicate more of my time to that. I burnt out of when I
did both teaching and social work.
It's draining.
Yeah.
You can't do both.
Like I did journalism and social work at the same time.
It burnt out badly.
Yeah, it's just too much.
And I can tell those stories now.
And I'll be honest, part of the reason I stepped up back from the White House thing is, you
know, I looked at what was going on and I very much believed in like a better regulatory
environment, ideally fighting for de minimis exemptions, not putting privacy tech developers
in jail, all this stuff.
But then there was another part of me that was like.
In my heart, I just felt this deep sense of like, OK, I'm covering something.
I'm covering the most covered person in the world, Donald Trump, the most written about person in the world,
while there are people around the world doing the real work with Bitcoin who are getting zero acknowledgement, very little acknowledgement for what they're doing.
And so whether or not it makes me sort of whether it pays my bills or not, having the headspace to acknowledge what some of these people are doing,
because their work is very, very thankless in a lot of ways.
I think all of us who have turned people on to Bitcoin,
we very rarely get a thank you when the price goes up.
We oftentimes get the whole, hey, what's happening?
Panic call.
So it's like being a parent or a teacher in that you have to be there
when people really need something,
but very rarely do the people acknowledge all the work you put into
just whatever you've done in raising a child,
helping a student get better at whatever you're helping them get better with.
And so there are these people around the world and it's not, you know, these these sorts of having these interviews, doing these interviews of people writing these pieces.
They don't get a lot of clicks. I had somebody the other day retweet me.
I wrote a piece called Making Space for Female Bitcoin Developers, and it was about this program, Dada Devs.
I had some guy, he was part of the irresponsibly long micro strategy group, which like, you know, that was sort of like, I'm not I'm just leaving it at that.
And he was like, he retweeted it and was just like, we have to keep this woke nonsense out of Bitcoin or whatever.
And I was just like, because supporting women is so woke, right?
Terrible. Terrible, right?
Not only that, you would want as many minds and perspectives looking at Bitcoin and Bitcoin projects as possible.
Diversity is a strength.
Yeah.
There's such a problem in this space.
And I go through this a lot more than I mentioned of being a woman in this space.
And some of the things that I have come up against, and I will fortunately have a female boss, our CPO at Soapbox, MK Payne, and I can go to her.
She is a feminist.
And I can say, hey, I have had a time today.
And so, you know, she gets it because, you know, there are not a lot of female developers.
And the ones who are do not want to be revealed as female because you can get by for a while.
I've known women who did it before they got doxxed as female.
You can get by for a while without admitting to the other developers that you are a woman and you will be treated differently after they figure out that you are a woman.
And that is just how it is.
That is just it sucks.
And it's a male dominated field right now.
Software development, Bitcoin and Nostra.
The women have an uphill battle and I will die on that hill.
And so I appreciate you for covering it.
Yeah. And I think, you know, it's like it's hard because one of the things that happens is I think as human beings, we see these like massive overcorrections in our correct in our psychology. So like people look at Bitcoin as like this correction to wokeness. And I get that on some level.
Right. I do. Yeah. Well, I think like the wokeness thing I was in I was in academia.
I was in some of these circles where there was like correct speak and incorrect speak.
And if you brought up something like Bitcoin, you'd be like they would just giggle like, look at this silly person over here.
Like the government has everything under control.
And I get that. I get the I get the correction back to like, no, self-sovereignty and people should be empowered on, you know, on a personal level because this is not what goes on in those conversations.
That's fine. But it doesn't mean that some of the things that might be associated with wokeness, maybe like equity or like acknowledging that women have a different experience than men in certain situations or in most situations.
That doesn't mean that that needs to be part of the thing with Bitcoin. You ideally want this technology to be used by everybody. Therefore, you want everybody developing it.
One of the quotes I didn't include in that piece, just because I didn't have space, we got kind of like a word count limited Forbes, was from Satsy, who's part of the Bitcoin Dev Project.
And she said something like, you can very much tell when a product for women was designed by men, like an app for women was designed by men and when it was designed by women.
And I was just like, yeah, like I don't have that perspective.
I will say this, like my immediate family is three younger sisters and my mother and my mother has eight sisters.
So I was socialized by many a female and surrounded by many women.
So I have a little bit of insight as to like where things.
My sisters are not radical personalities when they say something like they're being treated unfairly because they're a woman.
They're not complaining like it's a genuine thing that people should be taking note of.
But I think the bigger thing with Bitcoin data and what Lorraine Marcel is doing with data devs is if you don't look like people in a group, you're going to be far less prone to move into that space.
It was a credit. It was Amiti Uthawar, one of the first female Bitcoin Core dev or the first person that was surely a female who developed on Bitcoin Core.
I'm saying that incorrectly, but I think you get my drift.
in 2019, she began contributing. And I was at one of her, I was at like a workshop she was giving on
mental health and working in the Bitcoin space. And she brought that up. You know, it's like if
women don't see people who look like them, they're not going to come over here to work on this
project. And I know it sounds like almost woke of me, but I live in a place like New York because
I actually enjoy diversity. And I'm not saying that to be, that's not a virtue signaling thing.
It's not a woke thing. It's really not. There are places that are more diverse than others.
Like, honestly, it's more than anything. Like I live in I live in Queens. It's like Queens is, I think, the most diverse jurisdiction in all of the United States. And what I love about Queens is that you hardly know like it's so diverse that you hardly notice the differences. You go to the Vietnamese restaurant or this and it's everybody just doing their thing.
But the bigger thing that people forget about diversity is like if you're from a certain if you're of a certain sex, gender, et cetera, or of a certain race, you probably have or not probably you have a limited scope.
You have a way that you view the world.
That's through the religion you were raised in or the culture you were raised in.
The thing with diversity, I wrote a piece on this for Bitcoin magazine.
I took it's a book called Bowling Alone.
I took an idea from Bowling Alone.
There is something to be noted with diversity.
One of the things is that diversity tends to be really beneficial over the long term. In the short term, it makes people nervous. So humans are programmed within group and outgroup bias. And they're like, who's this new person or who's this new whatever. But over time, once you start working together, you're just like, oh, that's just this person or that's just like, I think once in a while, one of my good friends is dark skin Puerto Rican guy. Another one is a Korean American guy.
I never think about them in terms of what their ethnic heritage is because I just it's just like that's just that's just Vinny and that's just Jeremy sort of thing.
And I think that that's the way diversity has to work.
So there's this initial thing of like, what are these African women think they're doing developing on Bitcoin?
Whereas five years from now, you're going to be grateful that they're here and not even necessarily thinking about the fact that they're African.
Ideally, ideally. Yeah. Yeah.
Like that's I've had a recent bad experience with men in the Bitcoin space to the point where I thought I was over it.
And then the other night I went to a venture cafe here in downtown Phoenix, which is like a startup hub, an innovation hub.
And I hadn't been there before.
And so I went in and kind of did the wallflower thing for a minute and looked around the room because it's a networking thing.
There's panels.
There's, you know, it's like a business.
It's not a Bitcoin thing at all.
It's, you know, there's crypto people there or Bitcoin people there.
But it's overall it's an everybody thing.
And it's in downtown Phoenix, which is one of the most diverse cities in the world.
You know, we've got five million people here.
We've got TSMC.
We've got great employers.
We're a good mix here.
More than we were when I grew up here in the 90s, right?
And I looked around the room and I saw a large group of men talking to men.
And I was like, that's not for me.
And so I looked around and went, okay, where are the women?
I want to talk to the women.
And not only that, I want to talk to people who are younger than me.
Because at Soapbox, we have an AI product.
And I know that the younger generation has an issue with AI.
You know, we know this.
They have more than one issue, but they take issues with AI.
And so I want to talk to younger people about it.
People my age, you know, I use AI constantly.
The world I live in is a bubble where a lot of people are constantly not only using it, but developing with it.
We're doing AI-assisted coding.
We're innovating.
We're making more apps, bigger, better, faster than we ever could before.
The space is moving, right?
So the nostril space is going to pick up.
Even the Bitcoins, everything's accelerating, right?
But I wanted to find diverse perspectives.
And I didn't want to just talk to a bunch of dudes.
And in that moment, I was like, I am not healed from this bad experience recently because I do not want to talk to a single man in this room.
And I ended up talking to the women.
I ended up talking to a more diverse group of, you know, if I talked to men, they were more diverse.
But it was like just looking at the guys who, you know, maybe reminded me of some of the men in the Bitcoin space.
I was just like, you know, I'm not I'm not ready for this right now.
Like and I ended up meeting really cool people.
And I think I met, you know, the right people that I wanted to meet at this point in time.
And I think there's no accident.
So, you know, sometimes things happen for a reason.
But we do have a long way to go.
And some of us do want to be welcoming in this space.
And and we don't want to be.
I don't know. There's there's a male macho bravado in the space that I think for people out.
And it's or maybe not so much keep people out or scare them off.
It probably does, but it's not welcoming.
And I think it's one of the reasons why Nostra hasn't grown, because it's very male and the amount of women is small.
Yeah, it's very male and very technical, which is like the two things alone, those two things together is just going to drive the average user out, no question.
Yeah, it's going to drive some of the younger people out.
It's going to drive, you know, the women away.
So that's I think that's another problem in this space.
You know, I don't know if you have other opinions about, you know, I ask every guest this.
What does Nostr need? In order for Nostr to succeed, what must happen?
I think it needs to feel more behind the scenes. So I'll kind of qualify that a little bit.
When I use Nostr, I know I'm using Nostr. I'm like, OK, this is like the UX isn't great.
And again, I get that that's how you know you're early to something.
And that's actually a good thing in certain ways and everything else. That's fine.
But like the way that Noster is used within BitChat, and I couldn't even fully describe it, that kind of stuff where like BitChat just works.
Noster is being used on the back end and I'm getting privacy as a result.
I'm getting decentralization as a result.
So what I want to see, I actually quote tweeted someone yesterday who said like, I'm going to bring this up or quote whatever Noster, quote Noster posted.
But I think my biggest thing is sort of it needs to be the Noster-ness of it.
needs to still be abstracted away.
And I don't know how much that can happen
without really bad trade-offs.
Like, who was it that said?
Yeah, it was a guy who said,
what other services does Noster need?
And I said, what other services
can we run through Noster?
That was my thought.
So it's like, what existing apps,
whatever it is,
what can we, instead of having
a centralized entity, corporation,
whatever behind it,
how can we put that through Noster?
And I think that that's the biggest thing
because right now when people think of Noster,
the first thing that comes to mind,
at least for me and for most people who are relatively new to it, is decentralized social
media or a Twitter clone, right? Or a Substack clone with highlighter. And that's fine. I think
that's actually a great place to start. No question. I think it's fine. But I think it's
hard for me to answer that question, one, because I'm not a super technical person. But I would just
say, what are people using in sort of normie world, in traditional social media world or
traditional app world, traditional software world? How can we make those things exist in Nostra
without feeling like they're Noster clients.
That's really it.
Make it more simple.
We've tried to do that with Runster,
Runster being one of my other projects
where we've over time made it less Bitcoin-ish,
made it less Noster-ish
because we want normies to get on it
and not be hung up by,
well, what money do I receive for rewards
or what money does the charity receive
that I choose to receive?
You know, we want them not hung up on that.
And we thought, well, like,
you know, we're fundamentally Bitcoiners
and we're fundamentally Nostra people.
That's how we met.
The Wild Hustle and I were in the Nostra Fabrica challenge last year
and he built this app and then onboarded me as like the,
I don't know, de facto business development manager,
marketing type, you know, it's a startup.
So you do all the jobs.
And so we've over time like hidden the Nostra.
It's a Nostra app, you know,
but you don't really see the end pub unless you go looking for it.
And now the next operating upgrade we'll have,
the next release will be the Nostra stuff is not going to appear unless you're a heavy Nostra user.
So if you're somebody who signed up and got an NPUB, the Wavelake integration is not going to appear for you.
Or, you know, the share to Nostra isn't going to appear for you unless, you know, the device you're on sees,
oh, yeah, she's really on Nostra like every day and we're going to pop up the Wavelake toggle.
for her. So that's kind of, we're sneaking it in there, you know, and this is, again, AI-assisted
coding is how he's done this. Awesome. You know, because we realize there's kind of, you know,
it's an uphill battle to explain Coina and Oster, and we want to be a part of the adoption and the
hyper-Bitcoinization, but we know we're not there yet. People are not asking for that.
What we are with Runster is a privacy-focused, anonymous fitness tracker. You know, we're not
monitoring your data. We're not taking it, selling it like Strava or like Nike Run Club.
Like you can finally be anonymous. If you want to share it, you can. Everything's a choice,
which is the cool thing about Nostris. We can build things to the point where things are a
choice, like sharing about yourself or sharing that you built an app or whatever, sharing that
you did a workout, it is a choice. It's not something that's just done and you're farmed
into it so somebody can make you the product and take your data. Totally. Yeah, I think that's the
beautiful thing. And I think the hard part about that, I think you have to make it normally,
normie friendly in terms of use, because the average person, the average person, I'll be
really blunt with you, like when you talk about even privacy, but more than that, like censorship
resistance, when you say that the average person's response to that is still, well, what do you have
to hide? And that's fine, because the average person is like waking up, going and doing their
job, not doing anything illegal, not doing something that they feel they need to hide.
Average growing lives.
yeah it's like without without realizing that who they are and everything they're doing is being
harvested all that data around them most people won't like that but also won't do anything about
it meaning they won't fight remember remember it was like four years ago remember that documentary
on netflix came out about like how facebook is harvesting data there's a there's it's called
yeah it was like a big thing and i remember it being big because like my aunts were watching it
Like everybody was like, wait, wait, wait, that's what Facebook is doing.
And it's like, and everybody I knew from this world is like, yes, of course, that's what Facebook is doing.
Like that's all Facebook is doing.
They want our data to make money off of us and stop like full stop and story.
Like that's what they saw in us.
That's what Zuckerberg saw in the people using Facebook.
And now it is the most used social media app in the world.
And that's a lot of data.
Yeah, that was my point.
So it's like, who stopped using it because of that?
How many, what percentage of people stopped using it because of that?
Almost zero.
Some ideal, people like us who are like, let's go find Nostra.
And, you know, I think when I just had my three-year Nostra anniversary and I don't think I really knew what I was getting into.
I didn't, you know, like I didn't know that it was, it would be more privacy oriented.
I just knew that at the time I was working in social media marketing and I was following the developments of Elon buying Twitter and all the alts that were coming up.
And none of them lasted. But there was a lot of they were good ideas. OK, but they just didn't take off. And they were they were companies. They were not protocols like Noster. And I just I was looking for the next Twitter because for the last, you know, 20 years now, you know, along came the next thing over and over again.
And now we're in a point where we're not really seeing the next thing come along.
It's just that I think the ecosystem is established and people are kind of breaking off into their own communities now.
And it's more of like small group oriented or people are sharing social media content.
Like I might, you know, text a friend a video I see, but I may not feel compelled to post it on Twitter.
Like the going viral thing is not a thing anymore.
You know, once in a while something breaks through.
Like about a week ago, Claudebot became, you know, the thing and then it became Maltbot and then it became OpenClaw and then Maltbook happened.
And then, you know, in Soapbox, we built Clauster, the answer to Maltbook.
And that was an example of something that went viral.
And I don't know how because, you know, women like myself, one of one of our users of Shakespeare, another non-technical woman like myself, we were marketed that video.
We were fed that content on YouTube, whereas like, yeah, I watch a lot of cloud things, but I don't watch developer oriented kind of AI things.
CloudBot was more technical.
So I kind of think that they paid for targeted ads.
And like that's the only thing that I can think of in recent memory that went viral.
But the old going viral thing, I think, is a thing of the past because I think we fractured off into our own.
We've socially reorganized due to a hatred of social media over the last few years.
I think that that's true.
I would say the what and I think what makes Twitter particularly horrendous right now, and I'll I'll I'll add a little caveat to this in the end is.
The learning how to game the algorithm and the monetization.
So like the all caps, you know, this is happening with fire emoji, you know, and like the two pictures, a picture of Michael Saylor and a Bitcoin logo.
and you get a goodrillion retweets or whatever,
like the gaming, the algorithm
to just like the most lowest common denominator.
It's basically offensive.
Like, you know, and I've said this to like Rizzo,
my former boss, and he's like, you know,
it's like, I'm not,
it's not even like a matter of throwing shade.
It's just like, dude, I'm not here for this.
The opposite of that is that I think on some levels,
sometimes the cream still rises,
meaning when Lynn Alden posts something really smart
And you're like, fuck, Lynn's really fucking smart.
Like, OK, cool.
But that's that has become the exception to the rule.
Like that's that kind of stuff.
It's now like some MAGA influencer with a red light siren saying all the left is the left wants to do this to you or the opposite.
Some some Republican.
Fear and loathing.
It's just very incendiary always.
It's the same thing we used to do on TV where like one of the reasons I burned out on TV is because we would put a reporter out in the field for the day for like eight hours.
this reporter would work on a great story that actually affected the maximum number of people in
a community. It could have been a story about electricity bills or something. And then we'd
be ready to go for, you know, Fox Kansas season nine and house fire. Oh, here's an opportunity
to have flashing lights and emotion and sadness on screen. Like somebody might've gotten hurt.
And it's like, okay, that's one house on one block. And that does not affect the entire community.
like my Powerbill story does.
My reporter worked on for eight hours today.
She ate her lunch while editing in the car.
You know, like, but she's going to be usurped by flashing lights.
Thanks.
Hate this.
Like, let me get out of this.
It's a, there's a little bit of that too with the White House stuff
while I step back.
Like, I also, I looked at it and said like,
so I look at Bitcoin a lot.
Like I look at guns in the United States,
and follow me for a second,
more that I don't want actually I just don't want the U.S. government to infringe upon people's
rights to use it I don't need them to do anything about it so when the when the when the White House
would send me something like hey here's something that's happening like I don't really like I don't
care about this ETF or this this like I just don't want you infringing upon people's right to use
this so that we have the right to use Bitcoin it's enshrined in the constitution and that doesn't
really make for a great reporter because all I'm really doing is playing defense it's like I had a
I interviewed, I had a, it was like a small breakout session with a handful of reporters
with me and Paul Atkins, the new chair of the SEC.
And I don't, I don't cover crypto.
So I don't care that you're going to use blockchain on the back of whatever you're
going to use it on.
So my question to him was, can you explain to me what wallets look like?
Because, you know, what do crypto wallets look like?
Because in a world where you're trading stocks, I'm imagining you're not going to want these
things to be traded in non-custodial wallets.
So are you, when you talk about blockchain being used, is that on the back end of like
Fidelity or Charles Schwab, the existing systems, or are you talking about the ability to use a
ledger or a Trezor or something that is a crypto wallet? And now what does that mean for your
Bitcoin wallet? Are you going to try to sweep Bitcoin KYCAML into that and even come close
to acknowledging the question? He wouldn't even talk about it because it was one, he probably
doesn't know yet. But two, this is all that matters to me. I don't care about the blockchain.
I don't care if you're using Solana or proprietaries. I don't care about any of that
stuff. And so part of the reason I stepped back was one, the news cycle moves too fast and it's
too much flashing light stuff, like I said. And then when I do something like that, most other
people, probably even including Bitcoin Magazine on some level, though I was never told to cover or
not to cover something, I will give them complete props there. They were always letting me do what
I wanted to do, which I'm very grateful for. Even in the White House, David could have been much more
heavy handed in asking me to ask certain things and all that stuff, but he didn't. But you end up
kind of having to play the same game that everybody else is playing because they're appealing to this
base level of human emotion.
I've started to think about this differently.
It's a little tangent, but I think it's interesting.
Have you ever read a book called Power Versus Force?
Oh, I think it's in the TBR from a long time.
I don't think I actually read it.
I've heard of it, though.
So this is one of three books that Jeff Booth has ever read twice.
So let me just explain it from that perspective.
Jeff Booth, I look up to Jeff a lot, and I think he's kind of my North Star as like what
being a good human being slash Bitcoiner is.
He told me at an event we were both at, he was like, oh, this is one of three books I've ever read twice.
I was like, well, I got to start with that one because if this was enough for you to read twice, like I'm going to go and read it.
But what happened, what, what, what, what.
So what it does is it quantifies the frequencies on which things exist, starting down with like zero or closest to zero is like guilt, shame, anger, like all these sort of things that keep us trapped in like a negative doom loop or whatever.
And that goes between zero and 200 and 85 to 90 percent of the species of human beings operate between zero and 200.
So they're stuck in this thing. And it's like a chicken or the egg thing, right?
Because the news is now feeding into that, keeping them stuck in the doom loop of 200 of below 200.
The thing this is I love this. The thing that gets you above 200 in terms of frequencies is courage, which I think is beautiful.
you have to have some level of courage then you start experiencing like love and blah blah blah
and then you get up to unconditional love and this and all these things and then true enlightenment
is like the buddha or jesus christ or whatever you know prophet or whatever you don't have to
believe in that but i think you get my point it's um there's this thing where if you're working in
media full time if you're trying to make your job in it you're probably going to have to be a part
of that machine that keeps people in that zero to 200 frequency sort of thing. And I just don't
want to do that. And when I look at Jeff, Jeff, or even like Lynn Alden, they're coming at things,
they're not doing lowest common denominator type stuff. They're actually making people think about
much bigger things in a way that feels comprehensible to people. And to me, that should
be the goal. So like, I haven't perfected it. I'm also not like, I don't think my brain is as good
as Lynn or Jeff, but I still look up to them and saying like, okay, like, what do I, what
do I want the world to be?
And now how do I do that in a way that works when I'm transmitting this message to people
in a way that feels like people want to retweet it or reshare it on Nostra or, or zap it or
whatever it is.
And I think everybody, I hope more people, content creators have that conversation with
themselves because i think i think and i already see it happening a bit more on nostri when you
switch over from the x app to to primal or to domus or something to a nostri client you already
get this feeling of like that bullshit is not going to fly here i'll give you a perfect example
i love the person he's a buddy of mine the guy who runs the x handle for bitcoin magazine on uh
on our twitter he grew that account from 500 000 people to 3.3 million or followers or whatever it
is and don't get me wrong like i love being retweeted by that account it was fantastic for
distributing whatever message I was putting out.
Not going to pretend I'm better than that.
But I would always tell them with Nostra when they started the Bitcoin magazine handle and
stuff like guys, you just can't do that shit here.
Like you got to do like shit.
It's got to be different people.
Yeah, it's got to like it's got to have real value.
It can't just be like rocket emoji and flames and we're going to the moon.
Like you have to be part of the community, too.
You have to interact.
You have to because, you know, you can put something on Twitter and nobody's going to
respond.
Right.
That's just the way it works now.
But if you put something on Noster, someone is going to respond.
And, you know, there's a good chance you might get a little drivel, but you might get some really intelligent responses to and have a real discussion with other humans.
And that's the difference between Bitcoin and Noster.
You can be smart on Noster.
You don't have to be liberal.
Twitter, X and Noster.
I think you said Bitcoin and Noster.
OK, yeah, there you go.
That's the journalist in you.
I love it.
Correct me.
Just to clarify.
That's good listening.
Let the record state Frank Corbett is an excellent listener with excellent listening skills.
Yeah, I wouldn't hear that until I edit back and go, God, you idiot.
You minster words.
But no, that's the difference between the two.
And if people are like, I hate X or Twitter, which I hear all the time.
Everybody says, oh, it's a garbage dump.
It's just nothing but vitriol.
And it's like, OK, there's the solutions out there.
You just have to start from zero.
And a lot of people don't want to do that because they've been on 20 years of Twitter.
Now you, I want to go back into your past here before we run out of time.
And another way that you were kind of built for this was a music career.
And I don't know if you could pull up your prop, but I think there's a gold record in your past.
Yeah, I came up in like the Long Island and New York hardcore emo whatever scenes.
I used to work for a band called Brand New.
Look at that. I remember them.
Yeah some bad stuff happened with the singer and his you know I hope people don just think about the band for that They were a good band otherwise and the rest of the guys were fine But the stuff with the singer very unfortunate very sad and you know not good And we won get into that
though. We'll keep a positive here. I played them somewhere on some station. I just don't
remember when. There were a lot of stations. So yeah, I worked for independent record labels
in the early 2000s. Actually, I started in 1999 while I was a senior in high school,
working for like a local promoter but i came up um so like i have tattoos on my arms like the
bouncing souls punk band from new jersey hardcore punk yeah stuff like that it's like but what
the thing about that music i think that gets sometimes misunderstood it i like the aesthetics
of it meaning i i like the way especially like melodic punk so like no effects strung out like
melodic faster heavier guitars but melodic vocals i really like that kind of stuff but the thing
about that world that really inspires me is the diy ethos so like you're not waiting for a record
label to come and sign you some people are but otherwise put out your own record record your own
record book your own shows book your own tours and the night someone described what bitcoin was to me
it was january it was a week it was the first or second week in january 2018 i didn't have the
technical technical chops to sort of understand okay how does this work it was just like whoa
this is like a network that doesn't belong to the state and it's not private and i'm like okay what
what's my frame of reference for this is at least in terms of like how people are educating each
other about it how they're developing on it how they're spreading the word and this is just like
i grew up in an era before the internet was really really big it was definitely a thing from like
when i was in junior high on but like aol chat rooms and stuff like that but we still printed
out flyers yeah right yeah we still printed out flyers for shows and we would hand them out at
other shows and like that's how you got news about like what was happening and then eventually they
had like message boards for shows and stuff but there was this whole network of like nobody was
in charge of like hardcore it was almost like this i never actually i've never said it like this
punk rock or hardcore was like the protocol and then everybody built on top of it but nobody owned
the protocol that's i've never thought about that's the first time i've ever said that but
that was i didn't realize yeah in the moment that's what i was experiencing when someone
explained i've like i've been through this before and even the fact that it was so misunderstood i
I was like, I've been through that before, too.
And I watched.
So that band brand new, there used to be a band called The Rookie Lot that nobody listening to this has probably ever heard of that.
But that band played with local hardcore bands at a bar, not much bigger than the size of the room that I'm in right now, maybe three times the size of the room that I'm in.
So you're talking about with a bunch of other bands that no one ever knew, the singer are brand new, and all these bands ended up literally playing stadiums eventually.
were just playing shows that they put on themselves,
putting out songs that they recorded themselves.
And so it all starts from there.
And I knew that Bitcoin in 2018,
I mean, I wasn't super early.
2018 was still nine years into the protocol existing.
But I knew, so we used to do a lot of playing
at what were called VFW halls.
This was like local, like a VFW hall
is like where veterans of foreign wars meet
and they talk and they have events
and socialize and stuff.
So bars or VFW halls
was where most of the hardcore scene happened.
And when someone told me what Bitcoin was back then, I was like, OK, we're just at the VFW.
At best, we're at like the New York City 500 seat venue room.
We're not at we're barely at like a bigger venue.
We're nowhere near Madison Square Garden.
We're nowhere near a stadium or like Queen playing to 500,000 people.
We're like in the early, early days.
And it's still sort of DIY and janky.
And I think I think the really exciting part is if you feel like you miss that, you get it.
You're getting to experience that right now with Nostar.
Once Nostra is bigger and ubiquitous, you'll look at this as like the really cool days where like, oh, I used to like see Heather's posts and listen to her podcast that she would share on Nostra.
That's it. And there's something about that.
So the word punk rock, it's off putting to a lot of people because they think first of like the aesthetics of the music, the Sex Pistols or the people that are most associated with it.
If people even think of those things anymore where it's like, oh, isn't that just like live fast, die young?
It's like kind of, but also other things that were associated with like punk rock and hardcore.
It was like. Very principled things, whether you agree with them or not is up to you.
But like veganism, like bands like Youth of Today in the 80s were promoting like don't drink straight edge.
I don't I don't drink alcohol, but like don't drink, you know, live a healthy life.
The antithesis of live fast, die young. Put out your own records. Don't ask for permission.
So when someone described Bitcoin to me, I was like, I have lived through this change before.
I've seen bands go from literally nobody caring about them to me being given a gold record for a band that I work with that in a million years when I started working with that band, I never would have thought that would have happened.
So I had this frame of reference and it was really exciting to me to be like, I'm 43 now, so I was 35 at the time and I was like, oh shit, I'm going to get to do this again.
I loved those early days in the music industry.
Like, yeah, I was so fresh perspective. That's awesome. Yeah. And it was funny because the one thing I thought was completely over in my life after I used to tour with bands when I was in the music business, I've toured the US, Europe. And I was just like, I'll never I guess I'll never really have a reason to travel like that again. And I think last year I traveled every other week for like a Bitcoin conference or to be in D.C. for Bitcoin. And it's also one of the reasons I don't drink and I try to eat. I eat mostly vegan when I'm in New York.
When I travel, sometimes I break that rule a little now because, one, it's a little bit too hard.
And, two, sometimes, like, if I'm in Japan and someone's serving sushi, like, I'm going to try it.
Like, it's just, and I know that makes me kind of like a bad vegan in a way, but it's also like, it's like cultural experience.
Yeah, that kind of stuff.
Cultural experience.
I was vegan once, yeah.
It didn't last for me.
There used to be a vegan cookbook by Issa Chandra Moskovitz called The Post-Punk Kitchen.
Okay.
You know, like being vegan was an act of, it still is.
My boss is vegan.
Alex Gleason, he'll say I'm vegan, by the way, because he takes a lot of shit for being vegan.
You know, because it's like, yeah, you know, it's funny that we're all this space where we kind of have like these same inclinations of like music, veganism, software development, social work, journalism, activism.
You know, there's a we have the longer I do this, the more I see these intersections kind of pop up.
And I'm like, well, we really do a lot.
the same kind of kooky things in common.
Like we were all just living our lives
before Bitcoin came along and brought us all together.
Totally.
The one thing I actually wish,
I'm a little bit sad about this, to be honest.
I wish more people that I knew from back then
in the punk rock world, hardcore world,
I wish more of them got Noster and all this.
I'm actually kind of blown away
that more people didn't come over.
But I think part of,
this is one of the big things that I think we're doing.
And this is one of the reasons I'm also kind of leaving. I think a lot of people, even just being a White House correspondent, I think they were sort of like, oh, Frank's part of that, like America Bitcoin sort of thing. And I'm just like, I'm really not like I'm not at all. But the bigger problem, I interviewed someone, the guy who runs the MIT, he ran the MIT Bitcoin Club for a while and he does the Freedom Tech Summit. He organizes the Freedom Tech Summit they do at MIT.
And he he said I said to him, I interviewed him for podcasts I was doing for Bitcoin magazine.
And I said, when the Nepal revolution happened, we saw a lot of stuff about people using BitChat and a little bit about people using Bitcoin because the traditional rails were shut down and communication was shut down.
And I asked him, I was like, did you see like, are we being fed?
Maybe something that feels a bit embellished, like were that many people really using this?
And he's like, yeah, like what you're seeing on social media is really, really embarrassing.
embellish at best, maybe 1% of the youth population downloaded BitChat and even less used Bitcoin.
I was like, OK, why? And he's like, well, a lot of the activists are on the political left and they see something like Bitcoin as just like this extension of capitalism.
Get that a lot.
That, yeah, and that is something that when I write, and I very specifically write these pieces that have to do a lot with inclusivity for Forbes, because I want my normie friends from high school or whatever to be like, wait, that's in Forbes.
And I know, Frank, Bitcoin's being used for that.
There's a kind of boom there.
Yeah, like there's, but I don't see another way that we get people to come over because normies are still associating Bitcoin with like Trump token, Trump meme coin or something.
Yeah, because he tried to be the crypto president and they'd see the word crypto and they equate it to Bitcoin.
And that is also a problem still, too.
It's definitely a problem.
And so I think I kind of take I gave a talk on this.
I was down in Colombia two weeks ago and I gave a talk on if you want to be a content creator, lowering your time preference.
Don't do things to just get attention.
Just be really consistent.
Have a have a really honest message.
Be proud of what you're putting out there.
You know, do the work.
And hack, yeah, hack what you need to hack to get people to listen to it, because you could also fall into the trap of just putting out something that nobody listens to or sees.
So there's immediate, there's a push and pull to this stuff.
But I think you want to have a low time preference with it.
I highlighted what I said, like I wrote for a year and a half before a piece that I wrote went viral.
And I was OK with that, like before a lot of people picked up on like, oh, Frank's writing.
I did a year and a half of writing where it was largely under the radar.
And I knew that whenever I did something that felt like I was compromising my integrity, it felt kind of gross.
And I didn't want to be recognized for something that felt gross.
Because now I think what happens is you get locked into that personality a little bit.
There are a lot of like content creators that realize like being like super MAGA or super this will get me more likes.
Great. I'll just be that.
The problem with that is like you have to be that now.
Like even if it's just an act, I don't want to act like that.
I've seen that a lot. I have that suspicion about certain people that like they've locked themselves into that.
And maybe they're not really that, but now they're stuck there.
Once you see some of these people in real life, it kind of becomes obvious to me.
Maybe that's my theory, though.
It's a real thing. And I made certain decisions when I was younger that I wasn't proud of.
And I remember how bad they made me feel.
and I do everything in my power now to say,
okay, like, what do I have to do to sort of like,
I have to pay bills and if I'm going to create content
and write for a living, like, okay, what do I,
what's the trade-offs here?
But, and there are times where I really come right up
against that edge of like,
this kind of feels gross to me.
And those are the moments where I don't go past it.
So I don't lose sleep over it,
but I'd say like that, that was enough.
And I'll even tell my editor or whoever,
like, I'm not, I don't want to cover this
and I'm just going to write three more pieces now
that I feel much more like this is what I really want to say.
It's it's again, it's it's constantly going up against that thing of like, we want to bring people above that 200 level frequency, right?
We want to bring them to sort of understand that Bitcoin is banking and banked and that censorship resistance is important and that self-sovereignty is important.
But it's not going to magically happen.
So there's a some level of sort of meeting people where they're at and then trying to sort of like lead them to water, if you will.
That's the social worker in you, the teacher in you.
You meet them where they're at.
You meet people where they're at.
Totally.
A hundred percent.
So it's not easy.
It's not easy.
We'll get there, though.
But before we go, before we run out of time, I wanted to mention that you have a connection
to Black Vulcanite, which is a great hip hop group that we love from the media.
Tell the story.
This is really funny.
So I went to graduate school here in the city and I was in a class.
It was on international education development with a guy named Patrick Sam.
Patrick came from Namibia.
I think he was on a Fulbright scholarship.
And he's a well-known personality there.
And he's very connected to the art world and the music world and everything else in Namibia.
And so one of his friends came over.
One of Patrick's friends came over.
We were at a party together and he gave me this.
He's like, yeah, you should listen to this hip-hop outfit called Black Volcanite.
And this was like, I think this was like still a little bit before streaming.
I remember he actually like emailed me the MP3s and I put them on whatever player I had.
And there was a five song EP and I'm forgetting the name of it right now.
And Oaken's going to get mad at me.
But I remember listening to it over and over.
And it's weird because like as you get older, you know, in high school, you're more impressionable.
You get that thing and you just listen to it on repeat.
Like you found that thing that you love.
Your religion.
Black Volcanite.
Yeah.
Black Volcanite was one of those things like a little bit later in life where I was like, oh, I'm having like almost like a high school reaction to this.
Like I really like this.
There were two or three tracks on this EP, especially that were like I really was into.
The rest of the EP was good, too.
I'm not, you know, whatever.
But it's but it was a really good it was a really good release.
And years later, I end up starting this podcast.
And the first guest that I invite on is Oaken.
And he says something about Black Vulcanite.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, I was like, I've heard of them before.
He's like, I'm in Black Vulcanites.
I was listening to Oaken in like 12 and 13.
When I first got this EP, he's like, yeah, I'm the guy who does like the spoken word and poetry and one of the rappers.
And I'm like, I know you already.
Not only that, but I went and lived in Namibia for a brief period of time.
And when I told Okun where I was hanging out and who I was hanging out with, we were probably at the same parties and music events together, but didn't know it.
And then we met through Bitcoin.
So, yeah, it was a really fun story.
Shout out to Okun, EasySats, keeping Namibia educated about Bitcoin.
I've luckily got to meet him a few times at different events around the world.
Yeah, really fun, fun connection.
So, yeah, it does bring us all together.
But I think I don want to sound too hippy dippy with this It like it is the frequency thing I think the people who really really get Bitcoin are existing on a bit of a higher frequency I not again I not trying to be like to whatever but I do think that there a level of enlightenment a level of like OK I see what this is And it not just a asset that
goes up and down. And it's like there's something really kind of special here in terms of the way
that this will empower humanity, people, everyday people that gets I think as more people maybe get
over some of the stuff we just talked about, which was like, this is just a tool for capitalism or
blah, blah, blah. Once that can, once that sort of disappears and Bitcoin just becomes a bit more
normalized, ideally it kind of sucks people into this higher frequency vortex. And we, and as a
result of things like Bitcoin, Nostra, et cetera, humanity becomes more enlightened. I'll leave it
there. Yeah. That's the perfect ending. I'm going to play Black Volcanite and some of your other
favorite artists that we love, like Joe Martin, who has a new single coming out for Valentine's
and also Man Like Quex, another Bitcoin educator in Africa.
And any other artists that I should play at the end of the podcast.
Ainsley Costello is great.
I know she's popular.
We played a show together in Nashville.
So shout out to Ainsley.
What's his name?
From the format who started Wave Lake.
Sam!
Sam Means.
Yeah.
Shout out to Sam and what he's done.
Yeah, Sam's great.
And what he's doing with the format again.
I'm going to do one more story if you don't mind.
Go for it.
in 2005 i was working for warner music group and we started a division called east west which has
turned into something called independent label group and what we were doing at that time was
signing independent labels and helping them do their distribution because people were still it
was that era of like physical music kind of disappearing but there wasn't really an answer
on the digital streaming side yet and i i helped do the distribution for the formats record so i
actually worked with sam before i knew him in bitcoin too so i was i met sam so him and uh the
singer of the format came up to the lobby of the building it was a yeah yeah yeah of uh it's a
building on 6th avenue and 52nd street in new york it's no longer but it's where warner brothers and
rolling stone were and he came up to the lobby of the building and played a song or two so i saw sam
play like a little intimate performance in 2005.
Oh, my God.
Young Sam.
Before I met him again.
Yeah, young Sam.
Young Sam, yeah.
I got to go to the 25th anniversary format show here in Phoenix at the end of September.
It was biblically raining and flooding, and we all packed into the old Sun's Purple Palace.
Nice.
Veterans War of Coliseum.
They filled the house.
You can't play the format on Radio Detox, but I can play Means.
Cool.
That means solo work I can play.
Cool.
Well, that's it.
But those are my shout outs.
I love what Sam is doing.
Ideally, we see, you know, just continued slow and steady.
I mean, I want to see parabolic growth, but slow and steady growth with Wave Lake.
But at the very least, I'm just very glad that Wave Lake is an option for artists and the artists that I have.
Yeah.
The ones I've gotten to check it out have been very much like, shit, like, whoa, this is cool.
Like, this is something here.
I think you were one of the first people with your Forbes article to write about Ainsley.
And I think you even mentioned Joe and Manly Clex and maybe some others and Sam and Wavelake.
And I think you were one of the first people to cover it.
That was like two years ago because I remember we were so excited here in Phoenix because, you know, we were all involved here.
Our Nostra crews was very involved in all that.
And we were like, oh, my God, somebody from Forbes wrote about what we're doing and like what our artists are doing.
and our artists have the, you know, they've got this boost that we need.
And like that just that made our life, you know, and then keep it up.
Julie Costello wanted me to give you a shout out.
Oh, God, I still remember that article.
That was that was so huge that he did that.
And we very, very much appreciate that.
Pleasure is all mine.
And I think breaking those stories, especially to more of a mainstream audience.
It was actually funny.
It was one of the women who I taught with at a public school in New York, a bit older than me,
probably 10, 20 years older than me.
She turned her son, who's a hip hop artist, onto Wave Lake because she saw me post on my Instagram that article and was like, it's in Forbes and you can do this with Bitcoin.
And it did change the way she thought.
So it did have an impact on the way people look at value for value, Noster, Bitcoin, all that stuff.
And ideally, yeah, want to do more of that now that I'm free from the political stuff.
I want to do more of that when the opportunities arise.
Keep it up, Frank.
Well, I've kept you long enough.
I know we both have to go on about our days.
So I thank you for your time.
We'll have to do this again.
Once we get the big reveal about what's next for Frank, we'll have you back on again soon.
We won't be strangers.
We'll talk again soon.
Thank you, Frank.
Amen.
Appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me on, Heather.
Sincerely appreciate it.
And thank you to everybody who listened.
Much appreciated.
Talk soon, everybody.
There you have it.
Frank Korva.
I think the best conversation that I've had so far on Radio Detox really meets the moment.
I love Frank's involvement in the space, his passion, his humility for wanting to, I think, help the people who want or they want the help most.
I think they need the help most.
And Frank is willing to go anywhere in the world to do the work, to follow a story, to do the reporting.
And if you ever have a chance to send Frank a zap on Noster, I think you should do that.
if you ever have a chance to support his work, any work that he does in any way, I strongly
encourage that. And the world needs more Frank Corvas. And if you support one Frank Corva,
I think more will come along. You know, we have to be the change and we have to create
the world that we want. And that's the one thing I think people in Bitcoin, open source,
Noster, whatever you want to call this whole space, I think that's one thing that we do better
than anyone else as we create the world that we want to see.
We're breathing things into existence, basically.
And I think Frank's got quite the bright future.
Can't wait to see what Frank does next.
We know it's going to be great.
And we know Frank always serves.
So let's serve up some great music now from all of the artists that Frank mentioned that
he likes.
And hopefully it will turn you on to some of these artists.
and you can find them on Fountain, Wave Lake, just, you know, they're out there and wherever
you support them and however you support them, just know that they appreciate it.
And hard money is probably the ultimate compliment, but, you know, helping your friends discover
these artists is also a way that you can support and, you know, maybe even doing a music podcast
of your own if that so moves you.
We could always use more voices in this space
and let the cream rise.
As far as music and as far as the podcasting is concerned,
I'm going to get into a super set of great music
recommended by Frank Corva now on Radio Detox.
I know my eyes already like you, baby.
Filter. It's filter shit.
It's crazy cause it ain't really much to it, he just picked all the right parts of his
You prank calling, well guess what? I got your number now
We free falling through the atmosphere
The art of fear is what we give you and it's rigged with the bomb for your career
I like to flow but we both know the dams are closed
You dudes are killing hip hop tumors call you cans and froze
You rock the show but I made it jump like Ancelopes
Now I'm backstage promoters, hand me cash and envelopes and we out
Man this is how you navigate the dark, this is art
Watch the metrics walk, witnessing the guards from strange lands
Just a little rhyme from the bass man
We open up a portal to the land of the eighth man
the clock man this is how you navigate the dark this is hard watch the metal spark with this
thing they guard some strange lands just a little rhyme for the bass man we open up a portal to the
land of the eighth man you see i got it got it i put rappers in pockets hopping they thinking
they popping but they ain't popping they barely average i'm hopping nobody's fancy they're smacking
a homie sans list don't make sense where your sentences i've been blessed with this essence of
gab spit it with reckless or bad fuck what you think and you can't i am a veteran better than
MC's they dick riding, bandwagoning, fangirling everything
Sit the fuck back down, y'all not fucking with the team
Rogue man, rude boy, random city, nah I mean
This somebody, motherfucker, when me step up, I ain't seen
Run them team, say nah I mean a fucker with no wannabe
Now I'm about to bust up every one of these niggas
Lil niggas, you all little niggas to me
You claiming that you guard, but you barely even damn me
Bring any, I make a bitch nigga feel femmy
You get me, I'm easy like Sunday morning
Stop the clock, man this is how you navigate the dark
This is art, watch the mental spark, witnessing the gods from strange lands.
Just a little rhyme from the base, man.
We open up a portal to the land of the ape, man.
The clock, man, this is how you navigate the dark.
This is art, watch the mental spark, witnessing the gods from strange lands.
Just a little rhyme from the base, man.
We open up a portal to the land of the ape, man.
Though they may be confusing at times,
learning to use these particles properly will greatly contribute to your fluency in Japanese.
My eyes already light
Silence is gone
You will be alone
I hope they write that I was righteous
I hope they write that the kid was writing with arthritis
At night with a bleeding pen
With the power to make soldiers from civilians
So am I really him?
Yeah, yeah, I hope they write that I was righteous
I hope they write that the kid was writing with arthritis
At night with the bleeding pen
With the power to make soldiers from civilians
So am I really him?
Am I really Mark?
Or am I Peter Park in the game with Tony Stark?
Just stalking the white babe home to watch I go to bed
And wake up the next day when the news pronounced I dead
Because you know my deeds
And you know I bleed
140 characters on your Twitter feed
Tweet, tweet, Gaza tweeted me
And my crew are the best as far as hip hop
But we about to go global
This is a pit stop, I'm refueling
So quit drooling on yourself
Every time you see me swell into a giant presentation
Of what most of you perceive as the standard classical skinny guy
Never died for my city, I'd rather the effin' city died
F and CC aren't on my mind when I'm smoking these trees
I'm displeased with the number of kweitos that are wearing DCs
You know that they don't skateboard and that's what they were made for
May 4th, for Star Wars geeks having a face off
I'm Adolf when I hit her
With some of that 70, 70, 70 mega hot interceptive ram spitter
So speak up young blood, cause I can't hear you
But the sound of a thousand people screaming my name waiting for my shit to drop
I hope they write that I was righteous
I hope they write that the kid was writing with arthritis
At night with the bleeding pen
With the power to make soldiers from civilians
So am I really him?
I hope they write that I was righteous
I hope they write that the kid was writing with arthritis
At night with the bleeding pen
With the power to make soldiers from civilians
So it might really hit me
I'm feeling like I'm just crumbling
Riding for my eyes and I cannot do a thing
So I turn to the pen and the pen
Open the lift, hold of the evil spirits
A nigga have be away with you, motherfucker
Keep me from thinking straight
They say time waits for no man
And I ain't got time to wait
Better yet waste, I'm 24
Try to make haste and get my dough
Better not feel like college depression's on
What you know?
Got a nigga feeling all alone
So I say to myself, on my own
Don't say nothing to no man
Truth be told, not that social
Better way rhymes to express my vocals
And that pain that I feel inside
Could drive a nigga local, don't feel alive
Only feel so, so, so, so, ahh
I hope they write that I was righteous
I hope they write that the kid was writing with arthritis
At night with the bleeding pin
With the power to make soldiers from civilians
So am I really him?
I hope they write that I was righteous
I hope they write that the kid was writing with arthritis
At night with the bleeding pin
With the power to make soldiers from civilians
So am I really him?
Let me speak of the devil, I never speak of the devil
Cause when I speak of the devil, he will show up a new mental in my affairs
Sinking my boat, burning a flare
I keep my violent exes and phone book listed in pairs
I'll turn a hot day into a dance in the rain on a scale that they measure talks
But we weighed about the same because we both had uncanny skills with a notepad
I'd rather not talk about the things that we both had
I'd rather talk about the things we didn't like a ghost ad
Cause you are not the man that makes you, I am Sekou
I am long negotiations waiting for a breakthrough
I am the only Asian in this class with a space suit
So geeks humble yourselves
I might mumble a name or two in my sleep about dudes I look up to
But I'd never say it
I'm only a fan when I'm sedated
And fuck a fan you're only my fam if we related
I hope they write that I was righteous
I hope they write that the kid was writing with arthritis
At night with the bleeding pen
With the power to make soldiers from civilians
So am I really him?
I hope they write that I was righteous
I hope they write that the kid was writing with arthritis
At night with the bleeding pen
With the power to make soldiers from civilians
So am I really him?
My best poems are the ones I'm not ready to write
And even though their words and rhymes keep hitting my creative receptors like battering rams
Sent by the speed of what I've always been afraid to release the means of addictive scrutiny of
The light
It's not the battle with the shadows that I've battled with all my life
See I might not worry a long time ago and thinking that I coming for my own crown is just a type of disillusioned foolery that will result in your sudden departure from the comfort of your perceived supremacy at its highest point of solitary revelry
Now the fact that they have never and thus probably won't ever attempt to understand
why my royalty runs deeper than what debts and heights could ever retain
with the aim to restrain, is exactly why my proclamations must remain reserved
within the form of a cellular membrane.
It's a lonely open road, I could fall asleep
It's a matter of myself, just a matter of peace
Keep keeping you, Kalina, don't lead me away
I can read the lights on the television
You, Kalina, don't lead me away
Kalina, oh, oh, oh, oh
Kalina, Kalina, my young
It's the season of my solitude
I can hold my phone
I just want a little gratitude
But you just let me know
So here we go
Kalina, don't lead me away
I can hear the bell in the church ringing
Kalina, don't lead me away
Believer, don't lead me away
Coming up, coming up, coming up, my girl
It's the only road to travel
I have to find it in the city
Anywhere you wanna go, go back home
I can hold it up again, so don't
We're gone, we might not see how long
We might not see it, any way you wanna go
Go back home
I can't hold myself together
I should go to sleep
I guess it's only the open road
I should lie to sleep
But I can't end now
Spin it round and round and round
Then I found you, Kalina
Don't lead me away
I can read the lights on the television
You, Kalina
Don't lead me away
I can hear the bells in the church ringing
You, Kalina
Don't lead me away
Shake me up, sigh and off my body
You, Kalina
Don't leave me away, call me not
Oh no, you call me not
Oh no
It's the only road to travel on
So much easier than sitting home
Any way you want to go
It's an easy getaway
I just need something to clear my brain
I'm a tangled web
With the answer in my pocket
I'm not trying to escape you
You know I love it but it's dragging me down
I know this never hurt to argue
But you're coming around
I know that I left you alone
But what else can I say
Keeping up with the things back home
Feeling guilty when you call on the phone
Take me
Take me to a happier place
To find out
If I can do it with the smile on my face
Take me
Take me to a happy time
To find out
If I can do it all for a time
Hey, hey, hey
Tick tock, close the clock and I've been running
Someone else is dying
Five shots and I'll be dead where I was standing around
It's an easy way out
I think it's time to reconcile my head
I'm a bottom line fetal
Lower in my pocket
Take me
Take me to a happiest place
To find out
If I can do it with the smile on my face
Take me
Take me to a happiest time
I want to find out
If I can turn the light
Hey, hey, hey, hey
Went to a party yesterday
All by myself so should have played
After drinking, I started to run
Went home mainly cause it wasn't fine
You can live forever, you can live forever, son
Go to work and I'll pay the rent
Got no money cause my money's bad
So concerned that I lost my soul
So I gave it up for the rock and roll
You don't know what life is to you
Got myself what I just want to scream
I'm just living the American dream
Grab a partner, set something new
Got me a kid and a dog
You don't know what life is to you
You can live forever
What's your damage, honey?
What's the fuss about?
Tell me what I'm missing
Am I really missing out?
What's the rush?
You feel the rush?
There's plenty of time to fall in love
Am I wrong in thinking?
Heartbreak doesn't sound too fun
Never cry it over
Someone so replaceable
I'm getting closer
To finally feeling comfortable
You say that I should settle down
The second my feet hit the ground
Too restless to accept itself
And now I'm staying exless
E-X-L-E-S-S
Why's it up for discussion?
It's not hurting anyone
And just cause I'm not crushing
Don't mean I'm not having fun
What's the rush? You feel the rush?
There's plenty of time to fall in love
Never cry it over
Someone so replaceable
I'm getting closer
To finally feel uncomfortable
To say that I should settle down
The second my feet hit the ground
Too restless to accept itself
And now I'm staying excellent
E-S-L-E-S-S
What is your damage?
I am so absurd
What is your rush, babes?
Why do you so concerned?
What is your damage?
Honey, what have you heard?
Why are you out of your rush, babe?
Honey, you're so concerned
I'm crying over someone so replaceable
I am getting closer
To find me feeling comfortable
To say that I should settle down
To the second my feet at the ground
To restless to undefined soul
But now I'm staying in it
Staying in it fast
E-S-L-E-S-S
Staying in fast
E-S-L-E-S-S
If it was what you liked, I'd do it
Even if I wasn't into it
I'm not proud of it
Never knew how to get out of it
So I've been asking my therapist
If I'm a people pleaser
Going down, down, down a one night street
In the wrong direction
Ditching myself from this connection
Pleasing everyone but me
So, if you're gonna be with me
Please me, please me, please me
I'll lock that door, you can't break through it
No more mistakes, no more excuses
I'm so scared of this Will you hate me because of it?
Let me take my therapy
Cause all my people pleaser Going down, down, down the one-way street
In the wrong direction Ditching myself for a mixed connection
Pleasing everyone but me
So if you're gonna be with me, please me, please me, please me
I'm not gonna ask nicely, please me, please me, please me
If you're gonna be with me, please me, please me, please me
You're probably gonna run away, it might not be so bad
I know how to make you stay
I'm not going back in the wrong direction
Ditching myself for a misconnection
If you're gonna be with me, please me, please me, please me
I'm not gonna ask nicely, please me, please me, please me
If you're gonna be with me, please me, please me, please me
I'm not as dense as you think I am
I know that you didn't know that I knew about your little plan
But you had to go and tell everyone about my intention
That you hadn't won
But I bet you're wondering why your cute little knife doesn't hurt my back like you thought it would.
Well, thankfully, you did the hard part for me, and I just think it's good.
You put the cheerios up for the mess you made, but I'll leave it out for all.
Won't say a lot, won't give you the reaction that you want.
See you tear your eyes off
You tear your eyes off
Cause I knew that if I did
Your eyes would sneak away to the corner of the room
Cause I knew that you weren't used to having it all given back to you
And though it might be something to see your face red and cry like a little boy
You might deserve it but it don't serve a purpose
And though I'm five-two, I'm still the bigger person
You tear yourself up for the mess you made
But I'll leave it out to rock
We'll see a lot won't give you the reaction that you want
I'll see you tear your arms up
Up, up
You tear your arms up
Up, up
Well honey I hope you know that I wish you well
Well maybe I don't but you know that I never tell
Cause either way you can't say you didn't handle it with grace
Cause at the end of the day
I'm not the one who put the cherry on top of the mess you made
But I'll leave it out to rot
Won't say a lie, won't give you the reaction that you want
You pled to tear your thoughts with a mess you made
But I'll leave it out to run
Won't say a lie, won't give you the reaction that you want
And you're tearing on top
You're tearing on top
It's serenosa
You're talking about the future
But what do you see?
Is it an ocean of color growing exponentially?
What keeps me up through the night time
Keeps me dreaming through the day
Is that the goddess of wisdom is only a block away
I wanna fly with the Jetsons
I wanna shoot past the stars
I wanna take you to a place
You've never been before
When nothing brights like purple and orange
You can count the coldest law
I wanna fight with the Jetsons
I wanna shoot past the stars
What's done is done
Oh, we'll live and die by the number 21
Where energy is flowing through machines that are all known
And the lightning outshines the sun
I wanna fly with the Jetsons
Wanna shoot past the stars
Wanna take you to a place
You've never been before
When nothing rhymes like purple and orange
You can count the call as law
I wanna fly with the Jetsons
Wanna shoot past the stars
With you
With you Twelve words in my head Will be valuable and said A phrase in my mind
To better all mankind
I wanna fly with the Jetsons
I wanna shoot past the stars
I wanna take you to a place
You've never been before
Nothing rhymes like purple and orange
You can count the colors law
I wanna fly with the Jetsons
Wanna shoot past the stars
With you
I wanna fly with the Jetsons
I guess I want you, but I don't need you to take me home tonight.
Well, you look beautiful through all this alcohol.
I don't know if I'm thinking right.
I'm feeling lonely and I need somebody to make me feel alive
But I guess I want you but I don't need you to take me home tonight
All this drinking has got me thinking
What if we went back together
Where we run out of things to talk about
We can make our own little piece of heaven
And I'm feeling lonely
And I need somebody to
Make me feel alive
Well, I guess I want you
But I don't need you
To take me home tonight
It ain't like me to take love easily
And abuse a heart this way
She tore me down from here
And I'll get out of here
Cause my bad desires led me astray
But I'm feeling lonely
And I need somebody to
Help me feel a little more alive
But I guess I want you
But I don't need to
To take me home tonight
I guess I want you
But I don't need you
To take me home tonight
Take me home
Home tonight
Empty bottles on my floor
A number written on my hand
I don't know who the number's for
And I won't try to pretend
Cause I'm so heavy from that high gravity
I don't know why I do the things that I do
It's like I'm good to the big
Hearing voices in my head
That say it's always one
Too many frowns
Now that high gravity
Keeps holding me down
The broken sunlight through the blinds
When did night turn into day Memories like shattered pieces in my mind I could put them back together
But it won't matter anyway
I'm so heavy from that high gravity
I don't know why I do the things that I do to me
It's like I'm glued to the bed
Hearing voices in my head
That say it's always one too many rounds
Now that high gravity keeps holding me down
Oh, it keeps holding me down
I need to get back on my feet
I know I will but I don't know when
It feels like every other week
I need to learn to walk again
Cause I'm so heavy from that high gravity
I don't know why I do the things that I do to me
It's like I'm new to the day
Hearing voices in my head
That say it's always won too many rounds
And now that high
Gravity keeps holding me down
Oh, it keeps holding me down
It keeps holding me down
Welcome. You have now arrived in Kampala, Uganda.
The city of Seven Hills, the pearl of Africa, and the home of Gorilla Sats.
Yo, I'm a Saskabella. I'm a Saskabella. I'm a Saskabella.
I'm a Saskabella. I'm a Saskabella. I'm a Saskabella.
Yo, I'm a Saskabella. I'm a Saskabella.
They didn't see me coming, kicking the door and they start running
One masasquerilla, one masasquerilla
When I'm big and stacked, mean face and a silver back
One wallet can't handle that, no bro that's too big to zap
When I'm in Bukoto, when I'm in Kololo
When I'm in Kampala, you already know bro
I'm looking for the dilla, one masasquerilla
I have to make myself clear, ain't no monkey business here
Ain't no E, ain't no ADA, only King Kong here
Yeah, Bitcoin only, yeah
I'm a graduate of Satoshi
B-T-Z-F-A-X-I, lasers coming from my eyes
Keep that funny money, bro, fear of money is a lie
I'm looking for the dealer, Guamacarilla
Stacking monthly, stacking weekly, stacking daily, stacking crazy
I'm so laser focused, price action, don't faze me
Get my stack up, I gotta get my stack up
Whenever Bitcoin hits my wallet, beat my chest and say
I'm a Saskarilla, I'm a Saskarilla
You can't show me man, all my life I've been using shillings
DCA to BTC, the Bitcoin standards, how we living
Gorilla Sats
There's two ways this can go Be the one who has, or be the ones who don't
Yeah, my like quacks
What up king, do your thing
Hold it down, do your thing
What up king, what up king, what up king
What up king, what up king
Things are starting to take shape
I used to wait on them
And now they gotta wait
Heavy is the crown, I got used to the weight
And it took how long it took, best believe it was worth the wait
Took risks, made mistakes, I know God is never late
And in this game of thrones, people manipulate
See me on my grind, everyday, everyday
Be the king of your thing and let your proof of work see
Just been busy bro, I'm the antisocial
I've been stacking sass and adding to my total
You know we started local and now we going global
We outside, we outside
Twisting cities like I told you, man
We built for this, my guy
Fill more times and they will try
Yeah I just executed on the dream I had inside Put my pride to the side Another slice of humble pie Yeah we walking now we talking Lord knows it not a lie I not trying to convince you
man, I know that I'm the guy. Off with his head, money is a lie. Yeah, Bitcoin is money,
and Satoshi made a way. I see my Bitcoin only, homies, I'ma say.
What up, King?
Never bite a hand that feeds you, gotta do your research.
If they say it can't be done, I'm getting paid to make it work.
Yo, put me on speaker, I want everyone to hear.
Yo, fear of man's a snare, and it's only got a fear.
Yeah, this is my year, I'm making music peer to peer.
Yo, 2026, I got my whole crew up in here.
Everybody got a plate, I gave you all that clean slate.
If you mess up, that's on you, I change the locks on the gate.
We ain't here for nothing on the path to be great
See my Bitcoin Only Homies, I'ma say
What up King?
Do your thing, do your thing
Hold it down, do your thing, do your thing
Do your thing, do your thing
What up King?
Yeah
Bitcoin Only Homie
Got Bitcoin Only Homie
I'm just making music for my Bitcoin Only Homie
He's Bitcoin Only Homie
Got Bitcoin Only Homie
I'm just making music for my big own only
My life, my life quakes
I gotta make it man, I gotta make it
I wanna wake up in the morning
In Barbados
In Bahamas
Somewhere far away from everybody, you feel me?
Yeah
Shout out to the plebs and the 9-to-5ers
Shout out to the devs and the fearminers
We gon' make it, we gon' make it, we gon' make it
Shout out to the noobs and the first-timers
Shout out to the vets and the relay riders
We gon' make it, we gon' make it, we gon' make it
We gon' make it
Chuck the lemons, life gave me then I made some lemonade
Shared the thoughts over these beasts and found my way up out the maze
And every single season I just keep plugging away
And I kept all the receipts cause consistency pays
I got people tryna take me out, tryna bring me down
But it's pointless Anakin because I got the higher ground
I saw Fredo go fishing but he never came back
Nowadays I keep my circle smaller than a bottle cap
I'm a sat stacking, wave laking, relay rider, flip dad, NTZ, I'm the non-KYC, self-provider, found my purpose given out, and I ain't slowing down, I keep my eyes on the prize and an ear to the ground, I'm on route, heaven bound, and I'm still finding my sound, and I'm still making mistakes, but way less frequent now, I see monkeys trying to swim, fish trying to climb trees, it's time to know yourself and what you were destined to be,
Minimums not my portion, need that max like Tatum
And they see me out here ballin', not the same as how I came in
I just keep on droppin' verses and I'm reppin' V for V
Get my sats on the hour, they surpass my royalties
Store my wealth in code, keep my sats cold
Yeah, I keep my sats, yo, yeah, I keep my sats cold
Yeah, I keep my sats cold
Man, you know how it goes, man, you know how it goes
Man like ooh, man like craves, yo, you know how it goes, man
Shout out to the plebs and the 9 to 5'ers
Shout out to the devs and the fearminers
We gon' make it, we gon' make it, we gon' make it
Shout out to the noobs and the first-timers
Shout out to the vets and the relay riders
We gon' make it, we gon' make it, we gon' make it
We gon' make it, yeah, can't stop me
I be ballin' everyday
Call me, call me, I can't miss a lay
Get the best right now, do my dance right now
Get my best right now, pay the bills to stay right now
Look, God is just to pay the bills
I pay to God, it stays like that
I can't care about how you feel
My mind is just on getting stats
Can't afford to be distracted
Be fed in my craft, so I gotta go practice
I'm not a rubber ball, I am my arches
In order to make it, I gotta be nonsense
Trust me, I do this for real
I set my soul for the devil's new deal
For the music, man, I stay dedicated
I'm the greatest, there's no point of debating
Innovative with the flaws I be making
Hated first, then it's still my new cadence
I don't get why, why these people be hating
I just be your turn and go pray for repentance
But I didn't get the diameter, tell her
Once I step in, I'll be chasing the weather
Testing me, trying to push me to the limit
It's funny how they believe they really getting me
Look, running in cracks in the booth
You losing a tooth, you people asking some groove
Better watch what you gon' say
When I catch a case and nobody missing your face
Yo, yo, yo
Look, yeah, ay
We gonna make it, no, we gonna make it
Can't stop me, ballin' every day
Call me Kobe, I can't miss a lane
That's all I got, hey
Pay the bills, got the skills
Pull out with the mistake
And I aim it at you, and I aim it at you
Quicker, this is just a freestyle
I know I'll be screamin', but trust me
I'm gonna make it clean, don't even worry about it
Yeah
I'm a Relay Rider