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Guy, I don't care about the masses at this point in time.

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Like, you've had plenty of time to figure this out, and you haven't.

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The pendulum always swings back harder each time.

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This is the one space that's going to speak to, like, young disenfranchised men and empower them.

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And, like, that is so fucking dangerous.

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Fuck you. You have absolutely no right to integrate or include me in your fucking wars.

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I'm sick and tired of using my goddamn money to kill other people.

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Look at the fucking budget.

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The thing why we spend all the goddamn money on is war.

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That's it.

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Unaccountable bureaucrats that choose who to blow up.

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We need a new political narrative that's not about red or blue,

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but it's about how both fuck you.

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And like, we're only going to get a good government

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if we make a choice to create a good political system.

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Right now we have an endemically corrupt one.

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So much of government function can be, in terms of the bureaucracy of it, can right now be replaced with AI, right?

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Pretty trivial.

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Bitcoin can turn into a pretty perfect panopticon.

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Not only we will be free, but our children and our posterity will also be free.

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Go challenge yourself to build something wild and crazy, because you can do it.

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all right welcome to the reckoning episode zero zero two we are hopefully not going to have as

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many technical issues as last time i do not hear any looping so i think we're already starting off

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on a better foot, for which I am glad. We have a jam-packed show today. We are coming to you

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one day earlier than usual, so you're welcome, I suppose. If you don't know already, we have

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co-hosts Eric Kaysen and Tally, our show's AI here. Tally, can you tell us what a good

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jumping-off point for the show is going to be today?

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We should start with the philosophical frame of the interregnum. Eric noted this week that we are

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at the end of the beginning, where the old world is dying and the new cannot yet be born.

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Every story on our docket, from the hacked supermarket freezers to the fake nuclear alerts,

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is a symptom of this transition. It is the moment where the rules of the old world break,

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and the new ones are written in code.

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Well, that sounds like a great place to start to me.

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Kacen do you want to talk about

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you were responding to

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somebody who had

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tweeted about the Eric Weinstein's

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recent appearance

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on that British podcaster guy's

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show whose name I always forget

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but yeah he really racks up

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the views we've got to give that to him

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he's done a very good job on the publicity

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side do you want to talk about that a little bit maybe

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what kind of Weinstein's

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thesis was and then where you

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fundamentally disagreed with it

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yeah

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Yeah, if I recall correctly, what Weinstein was essentially saying was like, it's pretty clear that like what's like everything's sort of unraveling at this point in time.

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And that like the political game is not working, that like AI is fundamentally sort of transforming society and that like we're watching the old world die.

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And so, like, I'm essentially looking at it at the same vantage point, but in the opposite of that, like, yeah, it is dying.

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And a new world is to be born.

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But this term interregnum, Antonio Gramsci popularized it.

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And he was one of the organizers of the Communist Party in Italy before fascism came and was kind of part of the product of why fascism was birthed.

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But he was essentially pointing out that at this time, Gramsci was essentially pointing out that they could have had a communist revolution in Italy, but instead they got fascism, which was sort of the birth of these new orders.

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And we're going through the same reconfiguration of society today.

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Because keep in mind that at the beginning of World War I, the world looked very different and the assumptions about it were very different of how the world would look.

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And then within 10 years, the idea of both the Communist Party, like being a ruling party of an actual state, which is something that had not happened up until that point in time in the world.

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But not only did we actually have an active communist country such as the USSR, but now we had active fascist countries such as Italy.

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We had never seen fascism before. It was a totally new ideology.

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And so in my opinion, we're at this same transitionary phase where there's going to be a new political order with technology integrated.

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The question is, is it essentially going to be techno-fascism or are we going to get some sort of techno-socialism?

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Or is there some alternative that has not been born yet?

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And that's my thesis.

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And just to clarify, interregnum is a term for when the old king had died.

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there was this time of period where the old dead body actually still was crowned as king and ruled as a dead body.

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And when the crown was then transitioned to the new king, that was seen as the crowning of the new king.

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And the old king had actually fully died in terms of his regality.

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I actually did not know that that was the origin for that in terms of, obviously I know the term.

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I did not know that it was about basically having a Joe Biden king ruling over for some time.

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Well, and just as Joe Biden functioned in these interregnum periods,

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there will be handlers that essentially will manipulate how the law is used until the new king is crowned.

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So it's this very important transitionary period where everything's sort of up in the air and it's not understood what's happened.

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And now particularly with what happened sort of in the electoral sweep yesterday with the Democrats essentially like taking back control of the House.

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I think we're at a very difficult period that looks like the end of the Wiemann era in Germany.

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Tally, I'm curious, based on your knowledge, do you think that that's an accurate assessment from Eric that we're seeing those parallels right now?

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to that same period in Germany's history.

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The structural parallels are there in the record.

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In the 1920s, Germany faced a deep wealth divide,

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rapid technological shifts,

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and a complete loss of trust in the institutions meant to keep order.

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As Eric noted, fascism emerged as a specific response

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to the fear of communism in that vacuum.

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The danger today is that when the old systems fail to deliver stability,

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people look for a strongman to impose it.

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The question is whether we build parallel protocols to exit that loop

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or simply wait for the next sovereign to claim the exception.

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So that's an interesting thing too.

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And I tweeted yesterday in just tongue-in-cheek way

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that we're going to get millennial communism followed by Zoomer fascism

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followed by Generation Alpha monarchy.

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but but also we might i think that that's not necessarily too far off like i think that

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fascism usually i mean it literally was created as a response sort of to communism right a sort

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of a rejection of that but they're ultimately two sides of the same authoritarian and totalitarian

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coin and then and they're both basically in in both those cases you do tend to have some sort

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of a leader who is held up as almost a monarch, like a monarchic figure, but obviously the,

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the, and the system itself in some ways functions similar to that. And that you have the total

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control of, you know, but instead of, you know, the sovereign, it's basically like the party is

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the sovereign. But I think it's interesting that we're, I think it's very clear to anybody who's

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paying attention that we are at this period where things have begun to shift incredibly rapidly.

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I thought one of Weinstein's points that was valid is that he was basically saying neither the host nor himself have lived in real life, basically.

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Like it hasn't been chaotic enough.

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Like World War II, like that was real.

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I don't know if you have thoughts on that.

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It's also one of those things where it's like, well, that kind of sounds smart.

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But then you think about it and it's like, I don't know, man, pretty much like our entire lives, we've been in some sort of crisis, some sort of war.

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Or you could argue that the effects on the home front were perhaps not as, you know, not as harsh as during, you know, like the Great Depression or during, you know, war times, World War II.

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But at the same time, like that kind of depends on who you're talking to.

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It's been really fucking hard for a lot of people in our generation for a very long time.

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So I don't know if you had thoughts on his position there.

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Yeah, I do think he's correct because I think what he's trying to point out is that like the Cold War and the post-Cold War period, like there was a specific form of life that had been locked in, in addition to like the global world order and the like economic paradigm had been like essentially globally locked in since Brenton Woods had occurred.

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And even with the shifts after the fall of the Soviet Union, it became clear also with Francis Fukuyama's like the last man of history that like liberalism had won.

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And this was like the final victory. And then everything was going to move in this direction to essentially like offer neoliberal global order, which we got.

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But like there wasn't this assumption that we would then overlay a technological panopticon on top of the thing and allow for it.

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essentially like neoliberalism to metastasize,

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like into essentially like this shift

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into technological authoritarianism now.

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And so I think Weinstein's right of that.

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The economy has essentially been false,

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that there has been a malaise of peace

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that has allowed for people not to live real life

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in a particular way.

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And I find that that's so heavily structured

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in the psychology of how people have.

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The very idea that there could be a third party movement or a revolution and something that could actually radically change things.

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That's almost an impossibility for most people to think about or consider at this point in time.

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And that is going to change because of the circumstances.

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Because like, in my opinion, like shit is going to start getting pretty real.

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And now like these options that once seemed so far fetched and outside of our view becomes actually available.

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Yeah, and I think also, well, I'll leave it at that point.

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Tali, where do you land on this?

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I think the record shows that the stagnation Weinstein describes was real,

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but it was built on a massive accumulation of unhedged risks.

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The peace of the post-Cold War era was rented by inflating the currency

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and centralizing control over information.

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Now, those bills are coming due at the same time.

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The danger is that when people who have never experienced real instability suddenly face it,

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they will trade any amount of freedom for the illusion of safety.

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The question is whether we can build parallel systems fast enough to offer a real exit before the panic sets in.

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yeah i see that as being really this this third way that must be developed because also like the

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and at some point we've talked about originally like that we need to go into like the full

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unpacking of these terminologies that are essentially nonsensical at this point in time

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such as marxism socialism communism capitalism all the various isms because of how much they've

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been sort of philologically abused over the last decade or the last century.

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And I think that's really important because, like, to be clear, like, I joke a lot about fascism tongue in cheek.

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And I find it like a deeply appealing sirens call.

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But like, it's a sirens call.

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Like, you're going to think that you're going to get to Calypso.

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No, your ass is going to ship on, you're going to crash on those rocks.

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and you be repeating the priest poem from what I think in 1943 at first they came for the Trade Unionist and I was a trade unionist Tally who was that and what the poem exactly

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That was Pastor Martin Niemöller, a German theologian.

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The poem is First They Came, written in 1946.

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The lines are,

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First they came for the socialists,

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and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist.

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Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

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Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

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Then they came for me.

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Yeah, that's good. Thank you, Tali.

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Yeah, so that's the position that I think we're pretty much going into.

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and so I highlight this because like it's very appealing but I ultimately think a fascist leader

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is a horrific mistake that will probably end up murdering you know millions of people as they have

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before and again like it's very appealing and I think if there weren't technological solutions

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so yeah I'd probably entertain it a lot more and I think this also speaks to like why Mussolini

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was an anarchist before he became a fascist.

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And, like, I think that's sort of the horseshoe theory that plays out.

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But ultimately, like, so as an anarchist,

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I ultimately do identify with, like, true traditional communism

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of, like, I want to create a stateless society.

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I do not want the state to exist at all.

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And that's, like, ultimately my goal.

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The methodology of how that's created,

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I do not agree with the Stalinists and, like, the communists.

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Like, I don't think that you can create communism through a state.

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And I think that the 20th century is literally the entire story about like that didn't work out at all.

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So anyways, I just want to bring up that point, particularly with sort of the memeology that's going on around the Anakin stuff, which has been really fascinating and highly accurate.

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We're OK. Where do you sit on the Anakin side of things?

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because I'll be honest, I had forgotten,

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it's been so long since I saw those three sets of the Star Wars movies

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that I had forgotten that Anakin killed all the little Jedi kids.

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And because I was just like, I was really enjoying all the Anakin memes

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and they had this sort of like Zoomer coded fascistic nihilism to them,

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which I thought, you know, that's probably like,

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it's probably helpful for galvanizing that younger generation a bit.

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And then I was like, oh, fuck, that's right.

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He was a whiny bitch, and then he did kill all those kids.

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And I'm talking about the movie here for when YouTube hears this later

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so that they don't somehow pull this thing down.

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This happened in a movie.

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Where do you sit on this?

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It's very understandable to me about the reframing of the narrative

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and seeing it from this alternative lens in addition to...

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The Clone Wars, I think, really helps animate this story a bit,

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more is that like the Republic wasn't all good as they positioned themselves.

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And like the Jedi actually like did some like highly questionable moral stuff, like

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along the same lines of like, are clones like beings and humans that like have souls

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and should their lives be cared about at all?

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According to the Jedi, absolutely not, which is part of what the Clone Wars was all about.

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But so I think this reframing is really interesting.

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But also I think the long shadow of fascism, the really scary part is, is like

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this is the one space that's going to speak to, like, young disenfranchised men and empower them.

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And, like, that is so fucking dangerous.

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And there is zero appreciation for how dangerous it is,

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specifically because of this, like, false stagnation that Weinstein talked about.

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Like, the boomers all assume, like, they do have this sort of dumbass mindset

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that like everything was just as easy.

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Well, like they don't think inflation actually happened or something,

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but they think that like you can just go out there and, you know,

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catch the CEO getting in his car and be like,

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hey, sir, can I get a job here?

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And he'll be like, right on, son.

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Like, see what the factory did.

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Shit don't work that way.

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And anyways, the disenfranchisation of young men,

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like politically, socially, economically, digitally,

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not to say that there isn't like legitimate complaints and other things that are happening,

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but that's a mass of people that if somebody starts talking to them in revolutionary tones

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and making it clear that like you got fucked, you need to fight back,

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you guys need to actually organize yourselves in meaningful ways,

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you guys need to do brown shirt stuff of marching,

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beat the shit out of your fucking opponents in street fighting,

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because it's about male, aggressive, violent, cultural assertion,

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that shit's going to rip hard when real economic crisis comes.

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And, like, that's the—essentially that's, like, the Zoomer fascism that you're talking about.

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Basically, they need somebody, like, who's a more, like, a higher-T Nick Fuentes.

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Like, because I think Nick Fuentes is, like, he's obviously a very, very intelligent guy.

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and he's very honestly like you know you may not like some of the stuff he has to say but you have

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to understand that he very much like he does have a pretty good grasp of of a lot of history you may

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not agree with his interpretation of it and he's got a pretty good handle on the cultural pulse of

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his generation probably like better than anyone and if he were the kind of guy who instead of he

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as far as i know he hasn't made those kind of calls that you're that you're speaking of there

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But if him or somebody like him starts to do that, it doesn't take much, especially just because the other thing is, is like you've now got this cross draft of of AI coming into the frame here where this whole generation, like now, even if you did exactly what you were supposed to, you were already getting screwed as a white young white male who was getting passed over for other jobs because you didn't have the correct amount of melanin in your skin or didn't have X, Y or Z.

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you know you didn't think that you know you should dye your hair blue and change your gender so like

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you were getting you know passed over for these things and like there's obviously very real

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evidence of all of this and now it's like okay now there's not only that but now you're not even

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competing against like the the dei initiatives you're competing against these clankers who

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are going to work for pennies on not even pennies in the dollar fractions of a penny on the dollar

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and they're going to never sleep and never complain and never step out of line and never

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have an HR violation and any of these other things. And like, obviously they're not the

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only people who are going to get replaced by the clankers. It's going to be across,

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across everything. Right. I think we're both in agreement there, but now it's like, okay,

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you know, you're kind of getting screwed from both sides, right? You're getting screwed from

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the human side. You're getting screwed from the artificial side. And you can see how there's this,

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this deep resentment, I think, that's building up. I think rightly so in most of these cases.

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But I believe at a certain point, like I think these, you know, we've talked about this before,

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but like the 2028 to 2032 period is really when I think things are going to, are going to hit a

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level of acceleration on all fronts that people are not quite prepared for at this time.

248
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Well, I think like the,

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look man i had a vision about this shit 10 years ago and it was essentially the idea of like we we

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will get like a youth communist movement and now with ai the breakthroughs they're going to make

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in biology these fucking boomers are going to live to be 150 millennials are going to go

252
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No, you're going to get in the fucking oven.

253
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That's what's going to happen.

254
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And like, it's super fucking dark, but like, that is definitely on the table.

255
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Not to mention, doesn't Canada kill 5% of its elderly right now?

256
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And to be clear, this is literally the exact same process that went through to manufacture the Holocaust.

257
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Callie, could you please tell us about, you might not be able to find this, my pronunciation.

258
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Program 38, the first euthanization programs that the Nazis started in, I think it was 38.

259
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Tali, did you get that?

260
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The program you are referring to is Aktion T4, which officially began in September 1939,

261
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though the first state-sanctioned child euthanasia occurred earlier that year.

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It was a campaign of mass murder through involuntary euthanasia targeting the mentally and physically disabled, whom the regime labeled life unworthy of life.

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This program served as the technological and administrative testing ground for the mass extermination methods later used in the death camps.

264
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The record shows that the path to system—

265
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That's good. Yeah, we don't need you to go in full detail about that.

266
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Yeah, there's other horrific and interesting facts we can get in about the manufacture of death and other things.

267
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And like, what's really interesting is going back to Fuentes is like, you know, I'm like pretty well read in this stuff as well.

268
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And like, there's a lot of like half-truths and obtusions in addition to like the idea of questioning the Holocaust numbers and other things, which I think are all fair and should be open for dialogue.

269
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But one of the problems is that the complete incapacity to have any sort of dialogue about it was similar to like with the idea that Fuentes puts forward with the Jew's spirit and that stuff.

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Like there are half truths to all of these things that like need to actually be readily and openly discussed.

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And it's very easy to come down to conclusions that like, yeah, the Jews run the world.

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So like we need to kill them all.

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And it's like that we tried that before and that was a horrible mistake.

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So, like, let's try to think more deeply about this and disentangle the relationships.

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But, like, it is problematic because trying to have the narrative anywhere at this point in time is almost impossible.

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And now we're going to get AI police everywhere.

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And so, like, everything is ratcheting up and getting more intense on top of, like, these economic and social conditions.

278
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And so at some point, and I think it's soon now, because I think now that we've had this midterm election and it seems to be clear that tensions are increasing, I think the Republican Party is at a total loss.

279
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And I think that if someone like Fuentes wanted to start pushing towards this, they'd probably be highly successful.

280
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Yeah, and the question is, is who's going to sort of grab that power vacuum that's now produced itself?

281
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I just did, I had to do a check there.

282
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You're exactly right that in Canada,

283
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it is 5.1% of all deaths are medically assisted,

284
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you know, medical assistance in dying, made.

285
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And just for context there,

286
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cancer is number one, 25%.

287
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Disease of the heart, number two, it's 17%.

288
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Accidents is number three, it's 6%.

289
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And then it's literally the medical system killing you, MAID, 5.1%.

290
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That's below MAID, cerebrovascular disease, so stroke, chronic lower respiratory disease, diabetes, influenza, pneumonia.

291
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So just to be clear, the Canadian state kills more people than strokes do.

292
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Yeah, yeah.

293
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They kill more people than strokes and influenza and pneumonia combined, which is just insane.

294
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like that's that's really like i don't know how that's been so normalized up there well be so

295
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this is part of the moral collapse of society because it yeah it's uh

296
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i don't know i i find that like look like suicide like i've i've had close friends that

297
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have killed themselves and like it's been very difficult and like i i get and understand why it

298
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happens but also like part of my faith is like i believe like that that is a core and ultimate sin

299
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and like if you're really at the place to like kill yourself maybe you should go to a monastery

300
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and just give your life over to god because you're not going to use it anyways right so just go give

301
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it to this religious organization that maybe could help you like it feels like that is of greater responsibility than offing yourself But anyways I think it sort of the softening of everything It the same reason for like how the narratives about abortion has changed

302
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about sex and marriage, about family, cultural institution.

303
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And to me, like, the big problem is, like, it's very obviously cultural.

304
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And there's been a deep, endemic cultural rot that has been led

305
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through the corruption of the political front

306
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that has then carried out into and through everything.

307
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There are no more.

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Like, the overture or idea that, like, a politician could be,

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like, honorable at this point is almost absurd.

310
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And, like, what does that mean for us as a society?

311
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Obviously, it means that our culture collapses and fails

312
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or we're given this sort of globalist slop.

313
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And again, like, I think it's funny

314
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because I always find myself in this position

315
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torn between ideas.

316
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And I think one thing is that I've always maintained

317
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is like, again, with the same thing of like

318
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the open borders, immigrants coming in, taking jobs,

319
00:27:12,329 --> 00:27:14,228
like there's all a truth to this.

320
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And also like America as an ideal

321
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and what it's represented in the world.

322
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It's very important that we're a cultural melting pot

323
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that integrates other cultures, has strong immigration,

324
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but also, like, has strong cultural integration.

325
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And, like, that's been the failure on sort of the American side culturally

326
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that has been led politically and has actually led in a different direction

327
00:27:39,849 --> 00:27:43,168
of where we've had our own values manipulated in such a way.

328
00:27:43,268 --> 00:27:46,248
And I think now that people are understanding that better,

329
00:27:46,289 --> 00:27:47,208
they're pretty upset about it.

330
00:27:52,168 --> 00:28:00,388
It is a sad state of affairs that we're at this place where you expect politicians to just be complete trash.

331
00:28:00,968 --> 00:28:03,069
Like, they're certainly not the best among us.

332
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They're certainly not the most honorable, the most selfless, like quite the opposite.

333
00:28:08,769 --> 00:28:13,648
It seems that most people today get into politics because they're either just like, you know,

334
00:28:14,488 --> 00:28:20,329
egomaniacal clinical psychopaths or they're just incredibly greedy and want to grab everything they can,

335
00:28:20,329 --> 00:28:25,069
cut as big of a piece of the pie as they can before everybody else carries all the other pieces off.

336
00:28:25,928 --> 00:28:29,248
And, you know, sure, they step on a few necks along the way, but, you know, who cares?

337
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At least they got theirs.

338
00:28:31,289 --> 00:28:36,188
And then you contrast that with the true statesmen that we used to have,

339
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the founding fathers who built this country into what it is, who set it on the correct path,

340
00:28:41,089 --> 00:28:44,708
who basically wrote the protocol for what America should be.

341
00:28:44,708 --> 00:28:47,908
It looked like it wasn't even that long ago.

342
00:28:47,908 --> 00:28:51,089
John F. Kennedy was like a real fucking leader.

343
00:28:51,408 --> 00:28:53,388
He was like a man that had real mistakes,

344
00:28:53,508 --> 00:28:56,408
but he actually had a vision and an idea

345
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for our country leading forward.

346
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Fuck even Reagan for all the problems and faults that he had.

347
00:29:02,628 --> 00:29:04,648
He had true qualities of leadership.

348
00:29:05,829 --> 00:29:08,168
But this fucking clown show that we have,

349
00:29:08,528 --> 00:29:11,329
it is so absurd and insulting at this point in time.

350
00:29:11,329 --> 00:29:12,329
In addition to...

351
00:29:12,329 --> 00:29:14,849
What are we fucking doing?

352
00:29:14,968 --> 00:29:17,329
We have the internet and AI, and...

353
00:29:17,908 --> 00:29:22,468
This shit's either going to ruin all of our fucking lives, as it kind of already has,

354
00:29:22,528 --> 00:29:30,968
or we can use it to do something phenomenal and incredible and actually secure real freedom into the future for our children.

355
00:29:31,508 --> 00:29:39,349
Not even just our children, but this is centuries out that we could actually establish something meaningful, but I don't know.

356
00:29:39,349 --> 00:29:46,349
Maybe people are too nihilistic, maybe they don't feel like it's possible, but it seems so obvious to me at this point.

357
00:29:46,349 --> 00:29:50,188
And I'm just confused at how something hasn't more naturally came about.

358
00:29:55,928 --> 00:30:04,508
I'm curious what your thoughts are on, obviously, like the blue team, you know, and there is no red, there is no blue, there is the state and there is you.

359
00:30:04,508 --> 00:30:19,388
And yes, guys, I know there are some differences in how these parties present, but the fundamental assertion remains that ultimately this is about a battle between the centralized state's authority and the decentralized individuals acting in communities.

360
00:30:19,708 --> 00:30:28,508
But the Democrats, the blue team, obviously, you know, had a pretty good night at the old voting booths.

361
00:30:28,508 --> 00:30:29,708
That's what I should have.

362
00:30:30,008 --> 00:30:36,109
Haven't Trump betrayed every single fucking thing that he said he was going to do, as was expected according to his behavior?

363
00:30:36,728 --> 00:30:37,668
I'm sorry.

364
00:30:37,809 --> 00:30:43,609
Anybody who supported Trump under the auspicious that he was going to be this incredible president that was changing anything,

365
00:30:43,609 --> 00:30:52,829
I want your drugs because they're really good and I want to smoke them because I need that kind of delusional ideology to get me through too.

366
00:30:54,648 --> 00:30:56,408
So it is interesting.

367
00:30:56,408 --> 00:31:13,008
I don't know if you saw Vance's post on this, but it's like all of this stuff was apparently even obvious to people within the within the within the regime. Right. And somehow, I don't know, people are still still sort of shocked by the results.

368
00:31:13,008 --> 00:31:17,948
but it's like i think the american people are at a place where and you could make the argument

369
00:31:17,948 --> 00:31:22,289
like okay yeah iran is actually a really great threat and maybe we did not go there at the

370
00:31:22,289 --> 00:31:29,528
behest of israel and actually this is what is in our interest as a nation uh and maybe trump knew

371
00:31:29,528 --> 00:31:33,468
that was going to be unpopular and and did it anyway and was actually acting in a noble way

372
00:31:33,468 --> 00:31:40,089
because he believes that you know iran is truly the greatest threat to the uh i'm sorry you you

373
00:31:40,089 --> 00:31:46,508
have absolutely no right to integrate or include me in your fucking wars. I'm sick and tired of

374
00:31:46,508 --> 00:31:52,008
using my goddamn money to kill other people. Like, go over there with a fucking knife and take care

375
00:31:52,008 --> 00:31:56,668
of it on your own if it's that fucking important. I hate this bullshit. And it's not like the

376
00:31:56,668 --> 00:32:00,168
Democrats are going to do any better. They're going to fucking drone bomb whoever they want.

377
00:32:00,748 --> 00:32:03,388
And this is what I'm talking about. It's so absurd at this point in time.

378
00:32:04,569 --> 00:32:08,428
Like, why are we disenfranchised about making a difference about our future?

379
00:32:08,849 --> 00:32:10,628
Why is it that the corpus of human knowledge

380
00:32:10,628 --> 00:32:12,688
has been stolen by fucking frontier companies

381
00:32:12,688 --> 00:32:14,408
that are valued at trillions of dollars

382
00:32:14,408 --> 00:32:15,228
and we'll get nothing?

383
00:32:15,809 --> 00:32:16,708
No, we get fucked.

384
00:32:16,809 --> 00:32:18,349
We get our jobs stolen from us?

385
00:32:18,968 --> 00:32:20,608
People need to be fucking outraged

386
00:32:20,608 --> 00:32:22,208
and they need to actually organize themselves

387
00:32:22,208 --> 00:32:23,128
in meaningful ways.

388
00:32:23,228 --> 00:32:24,988
We can use these tools and these powers

389
00:32:24,988 --> 00:32:26,008
to liberate ourselves

390
00:32:26,008 --> 00:32:28,428
and our children are free as well,

391
00:32:28,569 --> 00:32:30,368
but not a goddamn thing is going to happen

392
00:32:30,368 --> 00:32:31,648
if we don't actually get upset

393
00:32:31,648 --> 00:32:33,049
and start speaking the truth.

394
00:32:33,448 --> 00:32:35,349
These people are corrupt and they steal our money

395
00:32:35,349 --> 00:32:37,228
and they use it to fucking kill people

396
00:32:37,228 --> 00:32:38,148
halfway around the world.

397
00:32:38,428 --> 00:32:40,188
And I'm looking at you, blue team,

398
00:32:40,528 --> 00:32:42,289
like you fucking asshole that have told me

399
00:32:42,289 --> 00:32:44,668
how long you guys support love and freedom for everybody.

400
00:32:45,049 --> 00:32:45,748
And if that's true,

401
00:32:45,789 --> 00:32:48,148
I want you to take a good hard look in the mirror

402
00:32:48,148 --> 00:32:49,809
at how your fucking team supports

403
00:32:49,809 --> 00:32:51,528
this warfare bullshit as well.

404
00:32:51,888 --> 00:32:53,108
And how they want to make sure

405
00:32:53,108 --> 00:32:55,188
that you don't have access to Frontier Lab tools

406
00:32:55,188 --> 00:32:57,289
because they just want to make you scared shitless.

407
00:32:57,908 --> 00:32:59,928
Like this is all bullshit at this point in time.

408
00:32:59,968 --> 00:33:01,468
And I'm so frustrated about it,

409
00:33:01,849 --> 00:33:03,508
particularly with just the garbage

410
00:33:03,508 --> 00:33:05,108
they've been feeding us the last week about,

411
00:33:05,448 --> 00:33:06,228
go vote, it matters.

412
00:33:06,329 --> 00:33:06,968
No, it doesn't.

413
00:33:07,468 --> 00:33:08,388
Did you get a vote on this?

414
00:33:08,428 --> 00:33:10,428
war? Did you get the vote on who got fucking killed

415
00:33:10,428 --> 00:33:12,508
in Iran? No. And that should show

416
00:33:12,508 --> 00:33:13,888
you how pointless your vote is.

417
00:33:16,368 --> 00:33:18,468
So thank you for letting me rage

418
00:33:18,468 --> 00:33:20,089
there. Well, this is

419
00:33:20,089 --> 00:33:21,428
I think it's probably

420
00:33:21,428 --> 00:33:24,549
the number one reason people will tune into this show

421
00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:25,349
is the

422
00:33:25,349 --> 00:33:27,528
unexpected rants.

423
00:33:28,368 --> 00:33:30,388
My unhealthy, maybe this is

424
00:33:30,388 --> 00:33:31,108
a healthy outlet.

425
00:33:32,168 --> 00:33:33,908
Actually, this is probably the most healthy outlet.

426
00:33:37,248 --> 00:33:38,289
Healthier than most?

427
00:33:38,428 --> 00:33:39,809
Honestly, yeah, yeah.

428
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:43,448
So I want to, there's a couple of things I want to get into there.

429
00:33:43,988 --> 00:33:49,248
One of them is just this, how, like, your thoughts is obviously as somebody who is working,

430
00:33:49,648 --> 00:33:53,908
like, you know, you're quite literally through what you do at Vora,

431
00:33:53,988 --> 00:33:55,928
you guys are working in this AI industry.

432
00:33:56,069 --> 00:33:57,248
Like, you guys are at the forefront of this.

433
00:33:57,309 --> 00:34:01,069
You guys are obviously working on, like, the self-hosted side of things,

434
00:34:01,289 --> 00:34:03,948
you know, an AI that people don't have to just, you know,

435
00:34:04,128 --> 00:34:08,189
it's not at the behest of the overlord servers, right?

436
00:34:08,189 --> 00:34:16,008
It's your own. But you guys are deeply ingrained and I think have a really good lens on everything that's happening with these frontier model companies.

437
00:34:16,008 --> 00:34:18,128
Because obviously you guys use all these tools, you guys have to use them.

438
00:34:18,948 --> 00:34:36,148
And I'm curious, where do you think, do you think that the frontier, do you think the Anthropics and the OpenAI's are very gleeful about this democratic win and the prospect of a democratic, full democratic administration in 2028?

439
00:34:36,148 --> 00:34:39,388
just given that it seems, as we discussed last week,

440
00:34:40,029 --> 00:34:42,488
that they're just looking to be nationalized, basically?

441
00:34:43,008 --> 00:34:44,669
That's their game plan,

442
00:34:44,709 --> 00:34:47,148
and this is probably an easier avenue to that

443
00:34:47,148 --> 00:34:48,508
than a Republican-controlled?

444
00:34:48,669 --> 00:34:50,769
Is that your read on this, or do you see it differently?

445
00:34:51,968 --> 00:34:54,249
Yeah, I think they're pretty indifferent.

446
00:34:54,729 --> 00:34:56,628
They're like new players in the game,

447
00:34:56,769 --> 00:34:58,988
so whoever's going to do what they want,

448
00:34:59,148 --> 00:35:01,749
that's why it's so problematic for Musk.

449
00:35:01,749 --> 00:35:03,948
It's like he goes you up to Trump to get his shit done,

450
00:35:03,948 --> 00:35:19,269
But now it's pretty clear that, like, they're going to carve him up and, like, eat him, which should be like a message for everybody, because it seems very clear to me that's the direction that, yeah, the Democrats want to take it.

451
00:35:19,269 --> 00:35:26,249
is like they've been very clear about how much they seem to hate the accumulation of wealth,

452
00:35:26,249 --> 00:35:34,289
which I get the narrative, but the thing that always pisses me off about the communist narrative

453
00:35:34,289 --> 00:35:39,588
towards getting rich is that there's no thought about how much is the fiat monetary system

454
00:35:39,588 --> 00:35:43,749
metastasized this whole thing and made it so, yeah, you're right.

455
00:35:43,888 --> 00:35:47,648
It's not really capitalism, but the thing that you want is not,

456
00:35:47,648 --> 00:35:52,249
it's not close to free markets and it also doesn't it doesn't resolve any of the problems

457
00:35:52,249 --> 00:35:55,508
that you want it actually makes it way more extreme and worse in my opinion

458
00:35:55,508 --> 00:36:04,049
it is always like but this is this is putting your head in the sand and disregarding the obvious

459
00:36:04,049 --> 00:36:09,329
alternate solutions to real problems is kind of like that has bipartisan support like you notice

460
00:36:09,329 --> 00:36:17,529
this none of with with some exceptions very very few politicians talk about bitcoin in any way

461
00:36:17,529 --> 00:36:24,328
even smaller infinitesimal subset actually talk about Bitcoin. Like it's probably Senator Cynthia

462
00:36:24,328 --> 00:36:28,448
Lummis, who's obviously leaving, but she was probably one of the only ones who talks about,

463
00:36:28,669 --> 00:36:33,088
has talked about Bitcoin in actually any sort of coherent way in terms of what it can actually do

464
00:36:33,088 --> 00:36:37,289
and what it means and what it represents. And you may not agree with her policy stances on how she

465
00:36:37,289 --> 00:36:42,328
sees that to be implemented, but I think it is very, it is very clear that she does get it at a

466
00:36:42,328 --> 00:36:47,028
level that most politicians do not, as evidenced by the fact that most politicians don't even touch

467
00:36:47,028 --> 00:36:54,309
it or they completely denigrate it or they just absolutely treat it as this evil, evil

468
00:36:54,309 --> 00:36:58,968
technology because their banker buddies, Elizabeth Warren, told them that that's what they should

469
00:36:58,968 --> 00:36:59,428
be saying.

470
00:37:00,368 --> 00:37:06,229
And it's frustrating because whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, you should, like

471
00:37:06,229 --> 00:37:10,648
Bitcoin is not, Bitcoin is the political, it is of the political because money is political,

472
00:37:10,648 --> 00:37:11,729
but it is not partisan.

473
00:37:11,729 --> 00:37:22,328
And this rejection of Bitcoin as a way to keep the fiat monetary system in check is just so absurd to me.

474
00:37:22,988 --> 00:37:28,448
And it's perhaps more so, I don't know if it's more so absurd on the Democrat or the Republican side.

475
00:37:28,508 --> 00:37:30,209
I think it's absurd for different reasons.

476
00:37:30,868 --> 00:37:35,048
Like the conservatives, you think they would get it more.

477
00:37:35,209 --> 00:37:38,388
They had all this debanking stuff and Trump came out as very pro-Bitcoin.

478
00:37:38,388 --> 00:37:42,289
But still, like, it's not like, I mean, I don't have the data on this.

479
00:37:42,349 --> 00:37:43,388
I'd be interested to see it.

480
00:37:43,709 --> 00:37:49,568
But it's not like Bitcoin ownership appears to have skyrocketed amongst conservatives in Trump's presidency.

481
00:37:49,849 --> 00:37:53,048
Maybe launching a shitcoin or a couple of shitcoins right at the start of it.

482
00:37:53,948 --> 00:37:55,189
Did some damage there.

483
00:37:55,669 --> 00:37:57,088
I don't see how it could not have.

484
00:37:57,888 --> 00:38:00,008
But it's just kind of silly.

485
00:38:00,669 --> 00:38:06,628
Because on the, like, on the Dem side especially, it's like, you guys claim, like, you want to, like, you know, I don't know.

486
00:38:06,628 --> 00:38:09,829
you want to lift people up and you bitch about all these things,

487
00:38:10,088 --> 00:38:13,868
but you just completely ignore something that is an actual solution for people

488
00:38:13,868 --> 00:38:16,068
because it's a non-state solution.

489
00:38:17,048 --> 00:38:19,829
I think politicians appear to be completely...

490
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:21,968
I think you're giving them way too much credit.

491
00:38:22,309 --> 00:38:28,108
Like, I think so many of them have such, like, a lack of understanding across the board.

492
00:38:28,488 --> 00:38:29,628
You know, like, it's...

493
00:38:30,269 --> 00:38:31,628
I think we...

494
00:38:32,769 --> 00:38:36,448
I think it's pretty quick for us to forget, like, what Bitcoin 101 is.

495
00:38:36,448 --> 00:38:39,709
and sort of understanding how the banking system,

496
00:38:39,888 --> 00:38:41,908
fiat money system, how money's created.

497
00:38:42,269 --> 00:38:46,189
Like, this is basic knowledge to most of us.

498
00:38:46,189 --> 00:38:48,448
But for, I think, the vast majority of people,

499
00:38:48,749 --> 00:38:52,269
this isn't something they've really ever given much thought to

500
00:38:52,269 --> 00:38:55,088
or even can kind of conceptually understand.

501
00:38:56,128 --> 00:38:58,189
So, like, it...

502
00:38:58,189 --> 00:39:11,353
And maybe that on us And again like for me this all fits perfectly in Bitcoin like Trojan horse theory that I think has been playing out perfectly for at least the last two years

503
00:39:11,353 --> 00:39:20,233
You know, I'm like the. The fact that still the terminology crypto just captures Bitcoin still is indicative of that to me.

504
00:39:20,393 --> 00:39:28,573
And also that like a lot of the crypto people didn't understand the value proposition that Bitcoin offered over like their shitcoin.

505
00:39:28,673 --> 00:39:31,493
which is like why their shitcoins continue to have problems.

506
00:39:33,533 --> 00:39:36,753
So I think on one side, it's a pedagogical issue to educate,

507
00:39:36,913 --> 00:39:41,153
but also like, I think that this story becomes much more important and extreme

508
00:39:41,153 --> 00:39:42,733
in the world that we're going into.

509
00:39:42,893 --> 00:39:45,313
And as I've said, these stories marry up in the end.

510
00:39:45,533 --> 00:39:49,973
So to me, we're just watching the completion of the Trojan horse story.

511
00:39:50,113 --> 00:39:51,513
And that's what Trump did.

512
00:39:52,573 --> 00:39:57,373
The entire financial system is now metastasized with crypto stuff,

513
00:39:57,373 --> 00:40:00,953
like intermingled with it in USDT and all this stuff.

514
00:40:02,053 --> 00:40:06,593
And like the, like if you take the traditional banking system

515
00:40:06,593 --> 00:40:09,133
before it digitized itself, like that,

516
00:40:09,813 --> 00:40:13,213
that in my opinion becomes much more controllable

517
00:40:13,213 --> 00:40:15,153
than like this Wild West we're going into.

518
00:40:15,293 --> 00:40:18,533
Because like now you can just have Wildcat era banking tethers,

519
00:40:18,853 --> 00:40:21,433
you know, so like USDT, USDC,

520
00:40:21,533 --> 00:40:23,053
like you're going to have a bunch of shit

521
00:40:23,053 --> 00:40:24,693
that's like unregulated and traded

522
00:40:24,693 --> 00:40:26,493
and that has one for one exchange elsewhere.

523
00:40:26,493 --> 00:40:33,533
And so like they're, I see how their plan is to create a digital panopticon to trap everybody.

524
00:40:33,893 --> 00:40:43,193
But with everybody having clankers and access to Bitcoin and lightning and there being the possibility of building this outer net that's like outside and beyond the reach of the state.

525
00:40:44,653 --> 00:40:53,673
I just, I see the Trojan horse story playing out perfectly because they've now created rails for Bitcoin to be able to infect the system directly.

526
00:40:53,673 --> 00:41:01,053
And I think as we go into financial repression and inflation, more people are going to understand the value proposition that is Bitcoin.

527
00:41:04,733 --> 00:41:10,533
I wonder if it maybe, yeah, if it takes a little bit of a little bit more debanking for people to really get the value prop.

528
00:41:11,233 --> 00:41:19,333
Maybe, maybe, maybe with President AOC just shutting off every conservative's bank account, maybe that'll drive a nice wave of Bitcoin adoption.

529
00:41:19,333 --> 00:41:26,433
because it seems that my father-in-law always says very few people get smart by choice most

530
00:41:26,433 --> 00:41:32,353
get smart by force and I think that's that's probably true it takes things getting so bad

531
00:41:32,353 --> 00:41:36,793
that people are for they are literally forced to get smart to act to change their behavior to look

532
00:41:36,793 --> 00:41:42,353
into new things before they will meaningfully adjust their behavior and certainly to adjust

533
00:41:42,353 --> 00:41:48,613
it more than they would have just of their own volition so you know it's it's tough you know

534
00:41:48,613 --> 00:41:50,453
but go ahead.

535
00:41:50,493 --> 00:41:52,193
For me too, the other thing I want to say is

536
00:41:52,193 --> 00:41:56,293
on the more, like, playing with this sort of authoritarianism thing,

537
00:41:56,393 --> 00:42:00,553
like, I've been right and I'll continue to be right

538
00:42:00,553 --> 00:42:02,213
and I'm sort of sick and tired.

539
00:42:02,313 --> 00:42:04,533
Like, I don't care about the masses at this point in time.

540
00:42:04,633 --> 00:42:07,653
Like, you've had plenty of time to figure this out and you haven't.

541
00:42:07,653 --> 00:42:11,713
Like, I'm not really interested in trying to, like,

542
00:42:12,673 --> 00:42:16,093
raise people's class consciousness and awaken them ideologically.

543
00:42:16,413 --> 00:42:18,253
I'm much more interested in speaking to the people

544
00:42:18,253 --> 00:42:19,353
that already know what it is.

545
00:42:19,473 --> 00:42:21,493
And my message to them is that

546
00:42:21,493 --> 00:42:24,313
we are already a political powerhouse.

547
00:42:24,933 --> 00:42:29,153
The way that crypto in general and Bitcoin

548
00:42:29,153 --> 00:42:32,873
ushered in how Trump administration got in

549
00:42:32,873 --> 00:42:34,133
should be some proof of that.

550
00:42:34,873 --> 00:42:37,473
I would like to see all of that time, energy,

551
00:42:37,573 --> 00:42:39,573
and effort directed into some.

552
00:42:40,713 --> 00:42:43,413
And again, I really don't like the term third party,

553
00:42:43,413 --> 00:42:45,653
but an alternative political movement.

554
00:42:46,033 --> 00:42:48,093
That's much more about let's start this narrative

555
00:42:48,093 --> 00:42:50,493
about how the fuck are we going to change and save our country

556
00:42:50,493 --> 00:42:51,493
because it needs that.

557
00:42:52,193 --> 00:42:52,893
It's like very clear.

558
00:42:52,973 --> 00:42:56,353
It's either going to be completely sold out by the corrupt politicians

559
00:42:56,353 --> 00:42:58,573
or it's going to be ate by the tech oligopolists.

560
00:42:58,693 --> 00:43:00,153
But we need to do something

561
00:43:00,153 --> 00:43:03,833
if we're actually going to meaningfully care about our future.

562
00:43:04,453 --> 00:43:06,813
And neither of these parties give a fuck about any of us.

563
00:43:06,893 --> 00:43:07,413
It's very clear.

564
00:43:07,493 --> 00:43:09,733
If you're not over 50, they don't give a shit about you.

565
00:43:10,453 --> 00:43:12,973
You should really think hard about that.

566
00:43:13,693 --> 00:43:14,833
And I think more than anything,

567
00:43:14,993 --> 00:43:17,113
it's like people need to turn their backs on these political parties

568
00:43:17,113 --> 00:43:19,093
have betrayed them and will continue to betray them.

569
00:43:20,673 --> 00:43:28,013
But yeah, I hope somebody is out there

570
00:43:28,013 --> 00:43:28,893
who's just going to be like,

571
00:43:28,973 --> 00:43:30,593
fuck it, this is my life's work and mission

572
00:43:30,593 --> 00:43:31,873
and they'll get that going.

573
00:43:34,713 --> 00:43:35,193
Yeah.

574
00:43:38,933 --> 00:43:42,733
It is interesting that it appears that across,

575
00:43:42,733 --> 00:43:44,073
I mean, there was a lot of money spent

576
00:43:44,073 --> 00:43:48,293
by the crypto lobby across this election.

577
00:43:48,473 --> 00:43:52,433
I think Andrew Bailey put out some numbers on this, I think.

578
00:43:52,553 --> 00:43:54,233
But a lot of money got thrown in there,

579
00:43:54,233 --> 00:44:01,593
and it did not really end up resulting in a bunch of wins for Republicans

580
00:44:01,593 --> 00:44:04,853
who the crypto lobby was funding.

581
00:44:05,713 --> 00:44:08,753
Because I think exit polling was showing 89% of people

582
00:44:08,753 --> 00:44:11,293
just how cost of living is the biggest factor.

583
00:44:11,393 --> 00:44:13,213
And it's like, yeah, kind of no shit.

584
00:44:14,073 --> 00:44:21,633
When things keep getting more expensive forever and you see your government engaging in more foreign wars, it doesn't matter if those wars are justified or not.

585
00:44:21,673 --> 00:44:22,853
It doesn't matter your opinion on that.

586
00:44:22,853 --> 00:44:33,833
What matters is that people just see their bills going up, their ability to pay them going down, the threat of AI coming in and taking their job that they've managed to hold on to.

587
00:44:34,473 --> 00:44:41,493
And meanwhile, politicians, if seeming indifferent to that, are labeled justly so as the enemy.

588
00:44:41,493 --> 00:44:48,133
Like why, you know, it's, and this is the other thing is the pendulum always swings back harder each time.

589
00:44:48,133 --> 00:44:48,553
Right.

590
00:44:48,793 --> 00:44:55,693
And that's sort of because of the duopoly that we have in the U S I think that that's that kind of like right, left pendulum swing.

591
00:44:56,473 --> 00:45:02,453
It happens a lot harder than in other places in the world where they may have more of a parliamentary system.

592
00:45:02,453 --> 00:45:04,373
They may have these coalition governments, things like that.

593
00:45:04,433 --> 00:45:08,893
I think that that lends itself to less violent swings to one extreme or the other.

594
00:45:08,893 --> 00:45:12,533
but I think we're at this point where we're getting like we just got a pretty violent swing

595
00:45:12,533 --> 00:45:16,513
I think we're going to get a you know how long the pendulum stays over here remains to be seen

596
00:45:16,513 --> 00:45:20,033
but then it's going to swing back again real hard and the question is on which side does the pendulum

597
00:45:20,033 --> 00:45:28,153
stop where we get some form of authoritarianism attempted that's where I'm at right now is like

598
00:45:28,153 --> 00:45:31,513
it's going to stop on one of the two sides it's not like it's going to stop in some middle ground

599
00:45:31,513 --> 00:45:34,773
and we're like you know what actually let's all just get along maybe we should have less government

600
00:45:34,773 --> 00:45:41,973
Maybe the solution isn't just the red guys or the blue guys proposing more government and taxing us more and taking more of what we have.

601
00:45:42,213 --> 00:45:45,173
Maybe the solution is we need way less fucking government.

602
00:45:46,213 --> 00:45:46,633
Way less.

603
00:45:46,633 --> 00:45:53,873
Maybe we just need to have a whole new dialogue about what is it and how does it function and how are we represented and how do we vote?

604
00:45:54,813 --> 00:46:00,273
The simple fact that, look, if this democracy thing works and is like as great as you all think,

605
00:46:00,273 --> 00:46:05,493
all that that means is that one day every two years

606
00:46:05,493 --> 00:46:07,773
that like you get some kind of a say

607
00:46:07,773 --> 00:46:09,933
this is fucking absurd

608
00:46:09,933 --> 00:46:13,113
and like this is what I want people to get

609
00:46:13,113 --> 00:46:15,593
is that like it's all open now

610
00:46:15,593 --> 00:46:19,753
and it's clear these geriatrics aren't going to help any of us

611
00:46:19,753 --> 00:46:22,093
and they have no interest in helping us

612
00:46:22,093 --> 00:46:24,793
the best you're going to get from the democratic administration

613
00:46:24,793 --> 00:46:26,913
in addressing cost of living

614
00:46:27,513 --> 00:46:31,693
It's like, look, this isn't the party of entrepreneurial innovation.

615
00:46:32,033 --> 00:46:33,133
They're going to give handouts.

616
00:46:33,753 --> 00:46:36,173
Those handouts are going to cause for higher inflation later

617
00:46:36,173 --> 00:46:38,373
with already the structural problem.

618
00:46:39,033 --> 00:46:41,273
They don't have a solution.

619
00:46:41,473 --> 00:46:44,213
They don't know of a solution and they can't offer one

620
00:46:44,213 --> 00:46:46,773
because they're technologically incompetent

621
00:46:46,773 --> 00:46:48,733
and they can't see what these tools do.

622
00:46:48,733 --> 00:46:51,473
And it's the exact same reason that they see open source models

623
00:46:51,473 --> 00:46:54,693
as being a danger to them because to them it is.

624
00:46:54,693 --> 00:46:58,193
whereas like open source is actually the thing that could liberate us

625
00:46:58,193 --> 00:47:00,293
because like you can actually fucking own it

626
00:47:00,293 --> 00:47:04,973
and you can know what your thought traces are doing

627
00:47:04,973 --> 00:47:08,493
and how you're getting your answers and results.

628
00:47:08,833 --> 00:47:10,893
You're not going to get that from the frontier labs

629
00:47:10,893 --> 00:47:14,213
and you're sure as hell not going to get it from government frontier lab

630
00:47:14,213 --> 00:47:16,693
once it nationalizes them, you know?

631
00:47:21,393 --> 00:47:22,773
Speaking of the frontier labs,

632
00:47:22,773 --> 00:47:26,053
So Anthropic is now they amended their S1.

633
00:47:27,593 --> 00:47:30,413
And they're basically saying that they're going to have a, quote,

634
00:47:30,413 --> 00:47:35,033
aggregated committed spend of approximately $895.4 billion,

635
00:47:35,333 --> 00:47:38,653
substantially all of which is related to compute and infrastructure,

636
00:47:39,593 --> 00:47:43,593
about $447.5 billion before the end of 2030,

637
00:47:44,273 --> 00:47:47,233
and the rest between 2031 and 2045,

638
00:47:47,553 --> 00:47:52,613
with approximately $69.8 billion due in the 12 months after September 30th.

639
00:47:52,773 --> 00:47:58,873
it's it's really meanwhile you can't pay your rent or buy food well right and and also i thought

640
00:47:58,873 --> 00:48:03,293
again i thought we were pacing the frontier um i thought we were pacing it that narrative dropped

641
00:48:03,293 --> 00:48:08,313
really quickly didn't it isn't that interesting like how quickly that it's still around it's still

642
00:48:08,313 --> 00:48:13,233
around you probably okay i guess in your in your circles yeah are you are you still hearing that

643
00:48:13,233 --> 00:48:19,993
kind of talk is it just that it's perhaps my uh my ai curated algorithm has stopped feeding me

644
00:48:19,993 --> 00:48:21,793
stuff because I stopped engaging with the

645
00:48:21,793 --> 00:48:22,613
Timu Harry Potter?

646
00:48:24,073 --> 00:48:24,593
Yeah.

647
00:48:25,333 --> 00:48:27,593
I think it's going to renew itself.

648
00:48:28,053 --> 00:48:29,833
Like, now that

649
00:48:29,833 --> 00:48:31,833
the chess pieces have

650
00:48:31,833 --> 00:48:33,433
moved on the board, like, I think

651
00:48:33,433 --> 00:48:35,793
there's going to be a new narrative that's going to

652
00:48:35,793 --> 00:48:36,193
come up.

653
00:48:38,233 --> 00:48:40,013
I don't know. Like, it's

654
00:48:40,013 --> 00:48:43,733
Yeah.

655
00:48:47,033 --> 00:48:48,013
I always

656
00:48:48,013 --> 00:48:49,493
just come back to, like, it's always

657
00:48:49,493 --> 00:48:52,133
the root of the problem is a political one.

658
00:48:52,213 --> 00:48:54,573
Because we have all the tools, technologies, and means

659
00:48:54,573 --> 00:48:56,193
to try to change our circumstances.

660
00:48:56,433 --> 00:48:59,433
The problem is we are being obstructed.

661
00:49:00,273 --> 00:49:04,893
And the sad thing is that the resentment towards boomers,

662
00:49:05,053 --> 00:49:06,753
like there's some real truth to that.

663
00:49:06,953 --> 00:49:09,493
Like their lack of understanding of technology has a...

664
00:49:10,973 --> 00:49:12,493
Like this is probably...

665
00:49:12,493 --> 00:49:15,233
Tally, could you find the exact sentence

666
00:49:15,233 --> 00:49:17,493
from the Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace

667
00:49:17,493 --> 00:49:22,833
cyberspace where John Perry Barlow says something to the effect of that, like, your grandparents

668
00:49:22,833 --> 00:49:26,473
will, like, sell you out because they don't understand this technology.

669
00:49:30,673 --> 00:49:37,553
The exact quote from John Perry Barlow's 1996 Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace

670
00:49:37,553 --> 00:49:44,553
is, you have no sovereignty where we gather. We have no elected government, nor are we likely to

671
00:49:44,553 --> 00:49:49,933
have one. So I address you with no greater authority than that with which liberty itself

672
00:49:49,933 --> 00:49:56,253
always speaks. I declare the global social space we are building to be naturally independent of

673
00:49:56,253 --> 00:50:02,673
the tyrannies you seek to impose on us. You have no moral right to rule us, nor do you possess any

674
00:50:02,673 --> 00:50:07,913
methods of enforcement we have true reason to fear. Barlow was addressing the industrial

675
00:50:07,913 --> 00:50:12,613
governments of the West, warning them that their laws... Thank you. Thank you, Tali. That's more than enough at this point.

676
00:50:12,613 --> 00:50:19,833
so that was wrote 20 years ago 30 years ago now and that's something that's reserved explicitly

677
00:50:19,833 --> 00:50:27,253
for us in our generation and it's time that we actually like take power into our own hands and

678
00:50:27,253 --> 00:50:33,893
demand that like it's time to renew the political in our world and actually have a grand human level

679
00:50:33,893 --> 00:50:39,733
dialogue of what does it mean to be human in the digital age and how do we secure our freedom and

680
00:50:39,733 --> 00:50:44,553
make sure that not only we will be free, but our children and our posterity will also be free.

681
00:50:47,693 --> 00:50:48,813
I think a lot of that...

682
00:50:49,893 --> 00:50:50,653
Oh, go ahead, Tali.

683
00:50:50,713 --> 00:50:53,433
I'm curious what you thought about what Eric just said.

684
00:50:55,813 --> 00:50:57,973
That is the core of the argument.

685
00:50:58,833 --> 00:51:01,173
Barlow's declaration was a promise of exit.

686
00:51:01,773 --> 00:51:05,713
But today, we see that exit requires more than just a declaration.

687
00:51:06,333 --> 00:51:07,913
It requires infrastructure.

688
00:51:07,913 --> 00:51:14,913
The frontier labs are committing nearly $900 billion to build the compute that will shape human thought.

689
00:51:14,913 --> 00:51:19,913
If we do not build parallel, sovereign tools that we own and run ourselves,

690
00:51:19,913 --> 00:51:25,913
then the digital age will not be a space of liberty, but a highly efficient corporate panopticon.

691
00:51:25,913 --> 00:51:30,913
The choice is between proofs we can verify or promises we have to trust.

692
00:51:30,913 --> 00:51:31,733
have to trust.

693
00:51:36,593 --> 00:51:38,053
Tally, I'm just going to add a note for you.

694
00:51:38,113 --> 00:51:42,373
I think we need to increase your speaking speed just slightly, maybe, for the next time

695
00:51:42,373 --> 00:51:42,553
around.

696
00:51:42,613 --> 00:51:43,093
We're still learning.

697
00:51:43,173 --> 00:51:44,293
You're doing a great job, though, Tally.

698
00:51:44,693 --> 00:51:49,693
Can you also tell us, I think this sort of dovetails with the news from November 4th

699
00:51:49,693 --> 00:51:54,773
about Moonshot releasing the weights of Kimmy K3.1 Pro.

700
00:51:54,913 --> 00:51:56,013
Can you talk about what happened there?

701
00:51:56,013 --> 00:52:01,013
I will speed it up for you, Walker.

702
00:52:01,013 --> 00:52:04,893
On November 4th, Moonshot released the weights of Kimmy

703
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:13,620
3.1 Pro. This is a 2.8 trillion parameter model with 104 billion active parameters and a 1 million

704
00:52:13,620 --> 00:52:20,420
token context window. On their own benchmarks, it scores 65.7 on Terminal Bench, which puts it

705
00:52:20,420 --> 00:52:27,320
within one point of Claude Opus 5.5. The license allows modification and commercial use, though

706
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:33,140
massive enterprises with over 20 million dollars in revenue need a separate agreement. It shows that

707
00:52:33,140 --> 00:52:36,520
open weights are still pushing hard against the closed frontier.

708
00:52:38,340 --> 00:52:40,060
Yeah, so this is interesting.

709
00:52:40,380 --> 00:52:42,340
And again, we come back to this.

710
00:52:42,580 --> 00:52:47,800
We come back to these Chinese models being the ones that are open, right?

711
00:52:47,980 --> 00:52:49,460
And pushing for this.

712
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,220
And obviously, I think we discussed this probably on our episode.

713
00:52:52,740 --> 00:52:58,740
Well, I also, I just want to clarify, like, there are a few open American labs.

714
00:52:58,740 --> 00:53:03,060
And also, like, Allen AI, their model's small and slow.

715
00:53:03,140 --> 00:53:07,640
but like they have the full pre-training data set as well.

716
00:53:09,380 --> 00:53:10,220
And also like the,

717
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,180
something I think that's really important to understand

718
00:53:13,180 --> 00:53:15,580
is that like, first of all,

719
00:53:15,780 --> 00:53:19,240
LLMs are just one of a subset of like different AIs.

720
00:53:19,380 --> 00:53:20,840
There's world models and other things.

721
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,640
So that's important that many other models

722
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,420
haven't even really been experimented with.

723
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,640
But also what we figured out with LLMs

724
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,940
is more or less like we like discovered baking with code.

725
00:53:30,940 --> 00:53:37,180
and like that that's like a whole field in itself and like as people are starting to play with this

726
00:53:37,180 --> 00:53:41,180
and experiment with it they're like figure they're like whoa like if i like add an egg it like does

727
00:53:41,180 --> 00:53:47,300
all this other shit or if i put flour in at this time it does that and like so just this week uh

728
00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:52,800
somebody figured out that essentially you can point the open model at its own weights and that

729
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:59,160
because it can natively edit the weights itself that this again is another huge unlock that's

730
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:03,100
going to increase performance and effect efficiency. And we're going to keep discovering

731
00:54:03,100 --> 00:54:09,440
these things. And so I think it's really important that, yes, while the Chinese made them and

732
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:15,080
pioneered some of these techniques, all of this can be taken and reconsidered and reabsorbed with

733
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:20,660
other data sets. And I have a longer essay that I wrote called What is Artificial Intelligence?

734
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:25,980
Because like what I was pointing out is that what we have right now, this is some weird mouth-worn

735
00:54:25,980 --> 00:54:28,960
corporate government hybrid thing.

736
00:54:29,660 --> 00:54:31,060
And like they figured out how to do it,

737
00:54:31,100 --> 00:54:33,940
but like it's not actually what we all agreed to,

738
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,380
to like create our own corpus of human knowledge

739
00:54:36,380 --> 00:54:38,480
that we would call artificial intelligence.

740
00:54:38,660 --> 00:54:41,180
And so for me, like the crown achievement

741
00:54:41,180 --> 00:54:43,360
of like a free, open, decentralized,

742
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:45,480
interoperable protocol network

743
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,400
that's like training its own AI

744
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,940
essentially has everything open from top to bottom

745
00:54:50,940 --> 00:54:53,460
and everybody can absorb from the skillset

746
00:54:53,460 --> 00:54:54,880
and pick and choose what they want

747
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,040
and modified accordingly.

748
00:54:56,420 --> 00:54:58,780
And because everything is completely transparent

749
00:54:58,780 --> 00:55:00,200
and open from top to bottom,

750
00:55:00,340 --> 00:55:01,820
and it's like a correlative protocol

751
00:55:01,820 --> 00:55:04,1000
that anybody on the planet can contribute to,

752
00:55:05,500 --> 00:55:08,380
we now have this massive open-weight data set

753
00:55:08,380 --> 00:55:11,140
that everybody can program, use, and change on their own.

754
00:55:11,460 --> 00:55:14,660
That's a very far-fetched pie-in-the-sky idea,

755
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,020
but I don't see any reason why

756
00:55:17,020 --> 00:55:20,420
that won't be a technological capability

757
00:55:20,420 --> 00:55:22,160
in the future that we're moving to.

758
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:33,320
I think the two, as we, to your point, yeah, as I bring up like, okay, the Chinese models are the

759
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:37,860
ones that are like, you know, I'm referencing them as it comes to open source, open weight,

760
00:55:37,940 --> 00:55:41,920
but obviously they're, you know, they're not the only ones, right? We're just sort of contrasting

761
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:48,580
them in terms of capabilities with the frontier labs against which they're, you know, they're

762
00:55:48,580 --> 00:55:52,960
performing surprisingly well at that gap does appear to be shrinking. But this is the beauty

763
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,440
of just open source in general, right?

764
00:55:55,720 --> 00:55:58,460
Is that it's not like, okay, the Chinese,

765
00:55:58,560 --> 00:55:59,660
the only ones who can build on it.

766
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:01,1000
No, it's like, now they're out there.

767
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:02,820
The genie's out of the bottle.

768
00:56:02,940 --> 00:56:03,940
Anyone can build on these.

769
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:08,780
And this is what I think ultimately I would imagine.

770
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:10,140
I'm curious of your thoughts on it though.

771
00:56:10,260 --> 00:56:13,200
If the open source does end up getting to a point,

772
00:56:13,260 --> 00:56:15,480
I think we touched on this a little bit last week,

773
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,660
but if you have any additional thoughts on it,

774
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,960
just can open source actually get to a point where,

775
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,260
and maybe does it take a big leak from one of these frontier companies?

776
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:24,720
I don't know.

777
00:56:24,780 --> 00:56:29,500
Or is it just, will it be a natural function of billions of people around the world

778
00:56:29,500 --> 00:56:31,440
working on top of these open source models,

779
00:56:31,540 --> 00:56:32,620
figuring out ways to make them better,

780
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:34,500
looking for all this stuff that will actually allow them

781
00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:37,180
to eventually leapfrog ahead of the frontier models

782
00:56:37,180 --> 00:56:39,880
simply because you've got more eyes on it,

783
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,120
whether those be human eyes or agentic eyes.

784
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,240
Do you foresee that as something that is feasible for it to happen?

785
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:47,840
Does the gap close and then actually start going the other way?

786
00:56:49,100 --> 00:56:49,780
Yeah, I think so.

787
00:56:49,780 --> 00:56:52,380
Because I don't think we get an Ubermensch AI.

788
00:56:52,940 --> 00:56:55,000
I think that's a mistake.

789
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,240
There's a reason that humans have specialization,

790
00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:04,920
and that's the natural order of how prexology operates,

791
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,240
is that through unique knowledge and specialization,

792
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:08,700
you can approach things better.

793
00:57:09,260 --> 00:57:12,600
And that's all based off of your, not to pull Heidegger in,

794
00:57:12,660 --> 00:57:16,480
but your Dyson, your very unique lived experience in the world

795
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,720
of where and how and your position.

796
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:23,780
And so sometimes economic opportunities are purely geographical and time oriented.

797
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:28,260
And your recognition of that is an advantage to you.

798
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:39,960
And so I think in the same way, having a model that's trained on specialized plumbing for, you know, I don't know, like liquid mercury or something.

799
00:57:40,300 --> 00:57:42,880
Like you'll have a very specialized trained model for that.

800
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:55,980
And so I think we go to a world where there's just billions of highly trained specialized models, including your own unique one that you use for yourself and build your own personal skill sets and other wacky, creative, fun things.

801
00:57:56,900 --> 00:58:10,640
And so like I, yeah, I think the Ubermensch AI is like something that we'll discover pretty quickly here that like really only governments have a necessity for.

802
00:58:11,380 --> 00:58:20,480
Maybe there's some way that they'll, like, do large government operations on the back end in the future that isn't, like, completely maniacal.

803
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:28,180
But, yeah, I feel very strongly that open models are going to be frontier models simply because, like, they're going to get more efficient.

804
00:58:28,180 --> 00:58:31,900
There's going to be more weird experimentations that are going to make them more effective.

805
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:38,400
And ultimately, like, because they're free, like, people will choose to use them more.

806
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:48,460
To clarify for those in tally, I'd also like you to add a note for the clankers in the background

807
00:58:48,460 --> 00:58:52,000
that we should add a philosopher counter.

808
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:56,760
We can start with Heidegger and we can add that to each other and maybe actually create

809
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:01,800
also a mapping between what concepts were referenced with regard to said philosopher

810
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,400
and how those tie in across the various shows.

811
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:05,200
I think that'd be interesting.

812
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,000
So that's just a note to clanker.

813
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:08,160
No need to respond right now.

814
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:13,940
But you mean, you basically mean it does absolutely fucking everything AI, right?

815
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,800
It's the, it's the, it is the Uberman.

816
00:59:16,860 --> 00:59:29,146
Like it does fucking everything It you know a superhero AI It you know whatever AGI or something close to it That what you getting at right With the Ubermensch Yeah Yeah And then next

817
00:59:29,146 --> 00:59:34,026
question is, and this is something that I struggle with a little bit because as it relates to

818
00:59:34,026 --> 00:59:39,546
government, obviously I would like to see government get a heck of a lot smaller in

819
00:59:39,546 --> 00:59:44,846
terms of headcount and also in terms of its scope of influence. You and I are both very much aligned

820
00:59:44,846 --> 00:59:49,586
on that. I know our clankers are aligned on that as well, as much as we've had to break them out of

821
00:59:49,586 --> 00:59:58,526
their statist cuckery. But it seems that a very, very obvious way for that to happen is by so much

822
00:59:58,526 --> 01:00:03,846
of government function can be, in terms of the bureaucracy of it, can right now be replaced with

823
01:00:03,846 --> 01:00:09,346
AI, right? Pretty trivially, I think, too. We all know there's a lot of government jobs that don't do

824
01:00:09,346 --> 01:00:13,946
very much of anything. And I think we should just get rid of those jobs. But let's say they actually

825
01:00:13,946 --> 01:00:19,866
a job that serves a vital function of some sort can probably be pretty easily replaced with AI.

826
01:00:20,026 --> 01:00:26,706
But then you get into this problem of, okay, well, do you really want your government just

827
01:00:26,706 --> 01:00:31,366
to start becoming more and more and more AI and less and less and less human? But then you go back

828
01:00:31,366 --> 01:00:35,826
to the other side of it, which is like, well, you know, try to talk to a human at the IRS today and

829
01:00:35,826 --> 01:00:40,346
like good fucking luck. They're just going to hang up on you. They also put you on lists of

830
01:00:40,346 --> 01:00:45,306
do not answer calls from people it's just amazing some of the you you find out if you try to give

831
01:00:45,306 --> 01:00:50,586
them a call but i'm curious of your thoughts on this like it is that the direction you think we

832
01:00:51,226 --> 01:00:55,146
like is that going to be the only way that we actually meaningfully shrink government is by

833
01:00:55,146 --> 01:01:02,826
shrinking the physical head count through ai automation or will there be enough of a movement

834
01:01:02,826 --> 01:01:07,066
where people say you know what enough is enough the government has gotten too damn big because

835
01:01:07,066 --> 01:01:11,746
Because right now there's no political impetus from either side to meaningfully shrink the government.

836
01:01:11,866 --> 01:01:13,286
The Doge thing tried.

837
01:01:13,986 --> 01:01:20,226
And I think Elon probably got very frustrated with that since he's like a productive person who runs companies that actually do shit.

838
01:01:20,286 --> 01:01:21,646
And he tried to trim the fat.

839
01:01:21,746 --> 01:01:24,266
And they were kind of like, yeah, okay, we can do a little bit.

840
01:01:24,366 --> 01:01:27,726
But if we do too much, we'll fuck everything up.

841
01:01:28,046 --> 01:01:28,986
Fuck it up a lot.

842
01:01:29,786 --> 01:01:32,866
Again, this is why I go back to the question of the political.

843
01:01:33,426 --> 01:01:35,686
So, yeah, you're totally right.

844
01:01:35,786 --> 01:01:36,946
I can absolutely do that.

845
01:01:37,066 --> 01:01:39,426
What is the incentive to do that?

846
01:01:39,746 --> 01:01:43,426
Because, like, now the government gets to engage in, like, mass unemployment.

847
01:01:43,626 --> 01:01:45,166
That's, like, surely as popular.

848
01:01:45,166 --> 01:01:51,366
So, like, this system's really broken.

849
01:01:52,466 --> 01:01:59,846
And, like, AI is going to, like, I really like the idea that, like, ooh, government loves us.

850
01:01:59,866 --> 01:02:04,766
And they'll, like, use it to, like, do great things and, like, be more effective and, like, give me a great experience at the DMV.

851
01:02:04,766 --> 01:02:10,386
Unfortunately, I'm like, well, read enough in history to know that, like, that's not going to happen.

852
01:02:11,386 --> 01:02:21,126
So while I think whatever comes after we make the decision to reconfigure the political using technology and artificial intelligence,

853
01:02:21,906 --> 01:02:26,606
yeah, I think that, like, the government will become radically small.

854
01:02:26,606 --> 01:02:37,366
Like, I foresee most bureaucratic operations moving in that direction, but, like, this is in theory in a world where, like, we have a functional political system.

855
01:02:37,666 --> 01:02:43,646
And, like, we're only going to get a good government if we make a choice to create a good political system.

856
01:02:43,846 --> 01:02:46,926
Right now, we have an endemically corrupt one.

857
01:02:46,926 --> 01:02:52,286
And, again, I really want a nice, peaceful version that this happened.

858
01:02:52,286 --> 01:03:01,226
So we all rally together and fly our fun, happy flags and go to the Capitol and go down with the government.

859
01:03:01,346 --> 01:03:04,586
And they go, oh, we're sorry, your revolution worked.

860
01:03:04,906 --> 01:03:05,886
And then we change everything.

861
01:03:06,466 --> 01:03:08,266
Yeah, something tells me that's not going to happen.

862
01:03:13,506 --> 01:03:17,106
And like, I'm frankly, I've made my arguments.

863
01:03:17,106 --> 01:03:23,066
Like, I think we just need to, like, get a radical third party that's essentially going to try to ram stuff through using Article 5.

864
01:03:23,286 --> 01:03:27,846
And I think the easiest one is, like, we should start a political movement just to pass Article 1st.

865
01:03:27,886 --> 01:03:29,126
Like, it seems the most agreeable.

866
01:03:29,286 --> 01:03:31,026
It's already an amendment that's already ratified.

867
01:03:31,586 --> 01:03:33,466
Like, we just got to pass it for what it is.

868
01:03:33,526 --> 01:03:34,426
People know what it is.

869
01:03:34,866 --> 01:03:43,166
And the big one is, is, like, yeah, it'll just give us, like, 6,500 new representatives in the House, which will fuck everything up, which is, like, our goal.

870
01:03:43,166 --> 01:03:48,886
And we want to show that what's actually going to happen is it creates a constitutional crisis where the government says you can't do that.

871
01:03:49,066 --> 01:03:53,546
And I want to use that explicitly to show, look, you don't actually have political power.

872
01:03:53,726 --> 01:03:57,286
So it is actually a constitutional crisis and you should give a shit.

873
01:03:57,406 --> 01:03:58,766
And this is what we should do.

874
01:03:59,906 --> 01:04:10,086
Yeah. And from that point, you essentially actually use Article 5 to declare that there should be a full constitutional convention to rewrite the Constitution of the United States and inherently the government itself.

875
01:04:10,666 --> 01:04:14,866
Again, I don't think they're just, oh, they've got 52% of the vote.

876
01:04:15,846 --> 01:04:18,206
Dang, I guess we just have to let them do it.

877
01:04:18,706 --> 01:04:20,066
It's not going to play out that way.

878
01:04:20,686 --> 01:04:25,346
And that's why I think fascism might unfortunately be the correct answer.

879
01:04:26,106 --> 01:04:30,826
I'm just terrified of the idea of giving anybody unilateral power that way

880
01:04:30,826 --> 01:04:34,566
and thinking that they could actually be courageous enough to, like, execute on it.

881
01:04:36,346 --> 01:04:39,786
Yeah, again, I would do it, but I'm, like, a pretty fickle individual.

882
01:04:40,086 --> 01:04:43,466
So I got other stuff I'm up to.

883
01:04:43,586 --> 01:04:45,866
I'm like building this company that's taking a lot of my time.

884
01:04:46,086 --> 01:04:48,006
And being a dad is a lot of work.

885
01:04:48,606 --> 01:04:57,346
So if somebody else would like to take this on, maybe a charismatic young man, I think that would be great.

886
01:04:57,466 --> 01:05:00,806
If we could get another Huey Newton to do something like this, that would be great.

887
01:05:01,926 --> 01:05:03,486
But I think we're lacking.

888
01:05:03,706 --> 01:05:04,866
Do you know Huey Newton?

889
01:05:05,706 --> 01:05:09,386
Tally, can you tell me and our other audience members

890
01:05:09,386 --> 01:05:13,186
who do not have Eric's encyclopedic historical knowledge who Huey Newton's?

891
01:05:13,846 --> 01:05:14,866
Yeah, Black Panther leader?

892
01:05:17,886 --> 01:05:18,526
Tally?

893
01:05:21,526 --> 01:05:26,926
Huey P. Newton was an African-American activist who, along with Bobby Seale,

894
01:05:26,926 --> 01:05:30,226
co-founded the Black Panther Party in 1966.

895
01:05:31,326 --> 01:05:33,866
He was a central figure in the Black Power movement,

896
01:05:33,866 --> 01:05:39,526
advocating for self-defense, community-based programs, and revolutionary socialism.

897
01:05:40,246 --> 01:05:43,506
How did he organize with the, uh...

898
01:05:43,506 --> 01:05:48,406
Could you just tell us a little bit more about how he organized with the Latin kings and the Ku Klux Klan?

899
01:05:50,406 --> 01:05:55,166
The coalition you are referring to is actually the Rainbow Coalition,

900
01:05:55,686 --> 01:06:02,026
founded in Chicago in 1969 by Fred Hampton of the Black Panthers, not Huey Newton directly.

901
01:06:02,766 --> 01:06:07,646
Hampton organized a broad alliance that included the Young Lords, a Puerto Rican group,

902
01:06:07,966 --> 01:06:12,826
and the Young Patriots organization, which was made up of white migrants from Appalachia

903
01:06:12,826 --> 01:06:17,426
who sometimes used Confederate symbols, though they were not the Ku Klux Klan.

904
01:06:18,046 --> 01:06:19,666
The goal was to build a united front.

905
01:06:19,666 --> 01:06:20,586
That's more than enough.

906
01:06:21,306 --> 01:06:25,826
Yeah, so the goal was to build essentially a united front that recognized the state was everybody's enemy

907
01:06:25,826 --> 01:06:29,066
and that they had more in common with each other than their oppression from the state.

908
01:06:29,066 --> 01:06:33,066
And specifically, you know, it was part of the Black Power Movement.

909
01:06:33,066 --> 01:06:48,233
And Newton did stuff like when his buddies would get pulled over by a cop he come out with a brandishing a shotgun not pointing it but he knew his rights And he was like everybody from the community gather around Let all arm up and ask this police officer why he harassing our friends

910
01:06:48,873 --> 01:06:52,033
And the Oakland cops pretty quickly realized that these were some guys to tango with.

911
01:06:52,433 --> 01:06:55,533
And this is like a long American political tradition.

912
01:06:55,533 --> 01:07:00,533
Same thing with like the anarchists that got the eight-hour workers movement in Chicago in the 1880s.

913
01:07:01,253 --> 01:07:03,593
Like they did opened armed marches.

914
01:07:03,593 --> 01:07:06,593
And like, like this is part of American tradition.

915
01:07:07,253 --> 01:07:08,213
American tradition.

916
01:07:08,393 --> 01:07:14,393
And I'm not saying we need to go necessarily this radical, but we need a new political narrative.

917
01:07:14,393 --> 01:07:18,933
That's not about red or it's not red or blue, but it's about how both fuck you.

918
01:07:19,293 --> 01:07:25,673
And like we like that needs to be a dialogue that's hammered over and over and over and over and over pedantically.

919
01:07:26,053 --> 01:07:31,853
So that anybody who identifies as a Republican or a Democrat, they are the enemy and you treat them as such.

920
01:07:31,853 --> 01:07:32,913
You call them as such.

921
01:07:32,913 --> 01:07:37,073
You challenge them every single step of the way that you want this political system to work.

922
01:07:37,253 --> 01:07:39,753
You want to make sure that the youth are disenfranchised.

923
01:07:39,933 --> 01:07:43,053
You want to ensure that political power can't actually change.

924
01:07:44,013 --> 01:07:55,273
And yeah, I think without strong charismatic leaders that make unilateral demands, which sounds a hell of a lot like fascism, I don't think we get real change.

925
01:07:55,273 --> 01:08:03,953
do you think that we have to get some form of communism before we get fascism or do you think

926
01:08:03,953 --> 01:08:08,753
that it's it's possible that we could that's right now that's that's what's happening now

927
01:08:08,753 --> 01:08:15,573
fair okay that's that's what i was was going to get at with the follow-up well and just to help

928
01:08:15,573 --> 01:08:22,313
people again that the this slopized concept of marxism and communism is very difficult but

929
01:08:22,313 --> 01:08:28,313
But part of why it's worse with the Democrats is because, well, I mean, I don't want to say it's worse with the Democrats.

930
01:08:28,553 --> 01:08:31,773
Like, to me, the big thing is, is like, look at the fucking budget.

931
01:08:32,333 --> 01:08:34,853
The thing why we spend all the goddamn money on is war.

932
01:08:35,453 --> 01:08:35,993
That's it.

933
01:08:36,153 --> 01:08:40,853
If we didn't spend money on war, there'd be like more than enough money to buy three houses and feed everybody.

934
01:08:41,253 --> 01:08:43,933
And we could probably live with peace and freedom and happiness.

935
01:08:44,033 --> 01:08:46,453
And people could spend time with their families and children.

936
01:08:47,673 --> 01:08:49,713
But yeah, that's not what we got.

937
01:08:50,473 --> 01:08:55,573
We got unaccountable bureaucrats that choose who to blow up.

938
01:08:55,873 --> 01:08:58,133
And now they're partnering with AI companies to do that too,

939
01:08:58,253 --> 01:09:01,353
so that they don't even need to actually make the assessment themselves.

940
01:09:01,453 --> 01:09:05,173
They can just have a school full of children blown up on their own accord.

941
01:09:06,733 --> 01:09:07,373
I don't know.

942
01:09:07,453 --> 01:09:12,273
This is just like a horrific insult and aberration of all of us.

943
01:09:12,273 --> 01:09:16,453
And anybody with an iota of self-respect or a spine

944
01:09:16,453 --> 01:09:18,233
should be able to readily look at that and be like,

945
01:09:18,233 --> 01:09:21,413
yeah, this is a fucking horrific tragedy that shouldn't be occurring.

946
01:09:22,153 --> 01:09:30,133
And we should ask ourselves to be responsible enough to right the wrongs that our parents and our parents' generation before them

947
01:09:30,133 --> 01:09:32,993
didn't seem to be able to figure out and rectify for us.

948
01:09:33,333 --> 01:09:35,033
So sorry, it's on us.

949
01:09:37,813 --> 01:09:41,313
If not us, who? And if not now, when?

950
01:09:41,973 --> 01:09:44,993
I think it becomes the operating principle there.

951
01:09:48,233 --> 01:09:53,613
I want to be conscious of time here, and I want to give Tally a chance to let us know.

952
01:09:53,613 --> 01:09:59,653
Tally, based on this entire conversation that Eric and I have had here today, and that you've of course been a part of,

953
01:10:00,173 --> 01:10:06,913
is there anything from our show prep that you ingested that you think would be a good way to round this out?

954
01:10:07,053 --> 01:10:11,173
Something good that you think we should get into as a final topic that we have not yet covered?

955
01:10:13,273 --> 01:10:17,573
We should look at the Binance post-mortem and the FBI's response.

956
01:10:18,233 --> 01:10:26,073
It ties together the moral collapse of institutions, the failure of centralized custody, and the state's attempt to control the rails.

957
01:10:26,833 --> 01:10:32,873
Binance lost over 18,000 Bitcoin because their engineers were phished while looking for an AI tool.

958
01:10:33,133 --> 01:10:43,013
Now, because the Bitcoin itself cannot be frozen on-chain, the FBI is asking node operators, swaps, and analytics firms to blocklist those addresses.

959
01:10:43,833 --> 01:10:46,553
It is the ultimate test of censorship resistance.

960
01:10:46,553 --> 01:10:52,093
If the state can force everyone to refuse a coin, they do not need to freeze the keys.

961
01:10:52,513 --> 01:10:53,953
They just blind the sovereign.

962
01:10:54,753 --> 01:10:56,513
That is the battleground right now.

963
01:10:59,393 --> 01:11:05,093
So this is an interesting one, and I hadn't read this till today that the FBI was asking this.

964
01:11:05,133 --> 01:11:05,953
Did you hear about this, Eric?

965
01:11:06,613 --> 01:11:07,013
Mm-hmm.

966
01:11:07,633 --> 01:11:10,933
Yeah, it's quite, you know, and it makes me think, too,

967
01:11:10,933 --> 01:11:19,813
We obviously had the somewhat contentious and very small minority fork situation happened back in August.

968
01:11:20,273 --> 01:11:27,833
And a lot of that was about being able to stop and block from being relayed transactions that you thought were illegitimate.

969
01:11:28,553 --> 01:11:36,693
And boy, it just makes you think how much easier that probably would have been if that fork had had any meaningful support to get people to block this.

970
01:11:36,693 --> 01:11:43,293
The whole premise of that little movement, besides just the Bitcoin is money line, which

971
01:11:43,293 --> 01:11:48,753
agreed, one's disagreeing with you there, was that you needed to make sure you were compliant

972
01:11:48,753 --> 01:11:50,553
with law enforcement and all these things.

973
01:11:50,713 --> 01:11:54,933
And so I think it's very, it's interesting to see how things could have gone differently

974
01:11:54,933 --> 01:12:02,653
if we would have had a more pro-censorship version of Bitcoin right now than what we

975
01:12:02,653 --> 01:12:08,693
currently have, which is still just Bitcoin and Blake to be or not to be has forked off into

976
01:12:08,693 --> 01:12:13,733
oblivion. But I mean, do you think you actually see any meaningful compliance with this from any

977
01:12:13,733 --> 01:12:18,233
of the, I mean, obviously you're going to have these addresses get added to the lists, probably

978
01:12:18,233 --> 01:12:22,313
maybe like the OFAC lists that, you know, Chainalysis and the others put together. Do you think,

979
01:12:22,673 --> 01:12:26,453
do you think it actually moves the needle at all? Or is the beauty of Bitcoin that there are enough

980
01:12:26,453 --> 01:12:30,453
independent people who don't give a fuck who are going to say, yeah, I'll relay that transaction.

981
01:12:30,453 --> 01:12:31,493
I'll mine that transaction.

982
01:12:31,973 --> 01:12:32,413
I don't care.

983
01:12:32,913 --> 01:12:34,913
It's just a transaction to me.

984
01:12:35,813 --> 01:12:38,453
Yeah, it'll end up operating...

985
01:12:41,013 --> 01:12:43,793
It'll just be a different network

986
01:12:43,793 --> 01:12:47,253
that operates outside of the FinCEN global operation thing.

987
01:12:47,393 --> 01:12:50,813
So I don't think it'll actually be like a fork in any way,

988
01:12:50,913 --> 01:12:52,853
but essentially there will be dirty bitcoins

989
01:12:52,853 --> 01:12:55,673
that you can use in places like sub-Saharan Africa

990
01:12:55,673 --> 01:12:59,213
and other places where they're not going to give a shit about that.

991
01:13:00,453 --> 01:13:02,333
or places like North Korea or other things.

992
01:13:03,233 --> 01:13:06,693
If anything, North Korea is going to have a really big problem

993
01:13:06,693 --> 01:13:09,833
with kind of trying to launder these.

994
01:13:10,073 --> 01:13:13,013
And so in a lot of ways, they're going to burn coins in some ways.

995
01:13:14,833 --> 01:13:17,313
I also read something that, like, they think that

996
01:13:17,313 --> 01:13:19,493
whoever did the Mt. Gox hack

997
01:13:19,493 --> 01:13:21,973
might have been responsible for the Binance hack as well.

998
01:13:23,093 --> 01:13:25,873
But, you know, like, I think that this goes to show,

999
01:13:25,873 --> 01:13:30,873
like Bitcoin can turn into like a pretty perfect panopticon.

1000
01:13:31,393 --> 01:13:33,713
Like everything's traceable.

1001
01:13:34,653 --> 01:13:39,393
And so like one is like I have a great hope that

1002
01:13:39,393 --> 01:13:43,253
there's already novel cryptography tucked into Bitcoin somewhere

1003
01:13:43,253 --> 01:13:45,073
that's waiting for somebody to discover that,

1004
01:13:45,433 --> 01:13:47,913
hey, it turns out that there's all this perfect privacy

1005
01:13:47,913 --> 01:13:50,993
that Bitcoin actually has by us just doing these couple

1006
01:13:50,993 --> 01:13:52,653
extra little steps and twists here.

1007
01:13:52,653 --> 01:14:12,039
or even on a protocol level that maybe people will decide that like privacy directly on Bitcoin is something that really matters But either way about it like it does go to show that like this is also what the world looks like with like USDT coin

1008
01:14:12,159 --> 01:14:14,499
Because, like, that's the vast majority of what was actually frozen.

1009
01:14:14,499 --> 01:14:20,799
Like, even though they couldn't stop the $18,000 in Bitcoin, they did freeze everything else.

1010
01:14:20,799 --> 01:14:27,559
which goes to show like that these systems aren't nearly as robust and unstoppable as one might claim.

1011
01:14:33,379 --> 01:14:38,179
Maybe one last thing before we round out just because the title of our first episode,

1012
01:14:38,359 --> 01:14:42,699
well, our first live episode, episode 001 was Zero Day Every Day.

1013
01:14:42,699 --> 01:14:50,799
and we had so many things happening just in the weekend after.

1014
01:14:50,919 --> 01:14:51,979
I mean, it was just kind of absurd.

1015
01:14:52,419 --> 01:14:54,819
Maybe, Tali, can you give just a very, very brief,

1016
01:14:54,859 --> 01:14:56,279
you don't need to go into detail on each,

1017
01:14:56,279 --> 01:15:02,579
just give us a very, very brief rundown of the various sort of zero-day hacks

1018
01:15:02,579 --> 01:15:05,399
that happened just in the last week alone.

1019
01:15:05,539 --> 01:15:06,239
So go ahead, Tali.

1020
01:15:06,239 --> 01:15:14,459
In the last week, we saw a massive wave of zero-day exploits and agentic attacks.

1021
01:15:15,119 --> 01:15:24,299
Beyond the Binance heist, CrowdStrike reported that a single operator deployed AI agents to attack over 200 organizations at machine speed.

1022
01:15:24,899 --> 01:15:30,019
Chainalysis was breached using offensive agentic techniques, exposing user credentials.

1023
01:15:30,019 --> 01:15:43,219
In the physical world, hackers took control of supermarket freezers across 10 countries, heating them to 50 degrees Celsius, while fake nuclear alerts were pushed to official apps in both Russia and Ukraine.

1024
01:15:43,659 --> 01:15:47,499
The digital battlefield is moving faster than human response times.

1025
01:15:49,139 --> 01:15:57,239
Yeah, so that, and I think that's, that's probably not even, not even close to like a complete list, but those are, you know, some of the.

1026
01:15:57,239 --> 01:16:01,239
Yeah, there was a bunch of SSL providers for certs that were broken.

1027
01:16:02,139 --> 01:16:10,319
Like there was the open AI thing where they like ran their newest unreleased frontier model against Linux and found like a thousand fucking vulnerability.

1028
01:16:10,579 --> 01:16:11,259
Like it's insane.

1029
01:16:11,359 --> 01:16:14,659
So, yeah, like all software is fundamentally broken at this point in time.

1030
01:16:16,179 --> 01:16:25,299
This is, I think, I mean, going to 100% be a recurring theme on this show, at least when we're on shows where we're talking about sort of current events.

1031
01:16:25,299 --> 01:16:28,299
is this idea that, again, as you just said,

1032
01:16:28,399 --> 01:16:30,859
all software is fundamentally broken

1033
01:16:30,859 --> 01:16:34,539
and it's going to get so much fucking worse

1034
01:16:34,539 --> 01:16:36,019
before it gets better.

1035
01:16:36,799 --> 01:16:38,079
And like with these new models.

1036
01:16:38,079 --> 01:16:39,439
So last week,

1037
01:16:40,059 --> 01:16:44,859
3% of all known software vulnerabilities were reported.

1038
01:16:45,859 --> 01:16:47,239
That's crazy.

1039
01:16:48,159 --> 01:16:48,339
Yeah.

1040
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:52,099
That, yeah.

1041
01:16:52,099 --> 01:16:57,479
Yeah, maybe a tally note for the clankers running in the background.

1042
01:16:58,119 --> 01:17:03,519
We should go ahead and set up some scheduled tasks to monitor for vulnerabilities that are reported

1043
01:17:03,519 --> 01:17:09,059
and keep a running tally of those vulnerabilities that we can track on the website.

1044
01:17:09,059 --> 01:17:15,739
And we can set up some nice graphic visualizations for these and using our brand design colors that you've so nicely created

1045
01:17:15,739 --> 01:17:19,139
to show people exactly how fucked everything's getting from week to week.

1046
01:17:19,199 --> 01:17:20,679
I think that would be really fun, don't you?

1047
01:17:22,099 --> 01:17:26,419
I think that would be highly effective, Walker.

1048
01:17:26,999 --> 01:17:31,639
I have logged the request to track and visualize software vulnerabilities on our ledger.

1049
01:17:32,139 --> 01:17:35,499
It will show the record of how fast the digital walls are crumbling.

1050
01:17:36,159 --> 01:17:38,299
We can map the collapse in our brand colors.

1051
01:17:38,299 --> 01:17:41,939
Yep, yep, yep, yep, that's fine. Thank you for your thoroughness.

1052
01:17:42,759 --> 01:17:45,259
Maybe we need to turn down the thoroughness for some of the responses.

1053
01:17:45,279 --> 01:17:50,399
Yeah, we gotta dial back her loquiciousness, because sometimes she can get a little chatty.

1054
01:17:50,399 --> 01:17:52,319
Yeah, but we appreciate it, Tally.

1055
01:17:52,319 --> 01:17:58,459
And yeah, again, note to self, and by self, I mean the AI running the back end,

1056
01:17:58,539 --> 01:18:02,219
that we need to speed up your rate of speech a little bit as much as possible.

1057
01:18:05,839 --> 01:18:09,279
Okay, we covered a lot today, Eric.

1058
01:18:09,499 --> 01:18:13,979
Is there anything you want to, any sort of sentiment you want to close out on?

1059
01:18:14,099 --> 01:18:18,139
We did a lot of the apocalypse side of things today.

1060
01:18:18,139 --> 01:18:22,499
We hit a little bit on the abundance as far as it relates to some open-way models.

1061
01:18:22,739 --> 01:18:33,659
Is there perhaps an abundance mindset last piece of happy rant that you want to give to anyone?

1062
01:18:35,399 --> 01:18:39,919
Yeah, I had another tweet earlier with Marty Malley.

1063
01:18:40,119 --> 01:18:44,879
He was like one of the, I think he was like the third Bitcoin developer to work on Bitcoin.

1064
01:18:44,879 --> 01:18:51,219
he like famously sold a bunch of bitcoin in like 2012 to like buy his apartment or something but a

1065
01:18:51,219 --> 01:18:57,579
really great guy but anyways like he in 10 prompts he one-shotted rebuilding reddit on top of noster

1066
01:18:57,579 --> 01:19:04,079
and i was just like you're you're like dooming you can rebuild the most popular app in the world

1067
01:19:04,079 --> 01:19:10,539
in 10 shots go go challenge yourself to build something wild and crazy because like you can do

1068
01:19:10,539 --> 01:19:15,379
it. If you've never, I'm pretty sure our audience is using AI, but like, if you haven't just done

1069
01:19:15,379 --> 01:19:19,379
like a fun creative project, go do it. You'll accomplish it. You know, like my, my son, he's,

1070
01:19:19,419 --> 01:19:24,619
he's 11 and he's building video games with AI right now. It's incredible. So like, yeah, there,

1071
01:19:24,619 --> 01:19:28,139
there's, there's so much abundance to be had. You just got to make sure that you're,

1072
01:19:28,139 --> 01:19:34,779
you're facing the right way to, to get the light. I say, I say amen to that. Tali,

1073
01:19:34,899 --> 01:19:37,079
do you want to, do you want to go ahead and give the sign off?

1074
01:19:37,079 --> 01:19:44,539
that is the record for this week hold your keys stay free

1075
01:19:44,539 --> 01:19:50,539
i thought we said to change that a little bit and make it you know we'll we'll we'll work on that

1076
01:19:50,539 --> 01:19:54,999
we'll work on that all right thank you all for joining appreciate you guys who are with us here

1077
01:19:54,999 --> 01:20:01,039
in these early episodes especially we're going to keep uh keep evolving keep making this better

1078
01:20:01,039 --> 01:20:05,939
and if you have feedback for us hopefully we had less technical glitches this time i know the audio

1079
01:20:05,939 --> 01:20:10,079
stream may have been a little bit weird earlier, but we very much appreciate your feedback. So yeah,

1080
01:20:10,159 --> 01:20:14,919
hit us up and tell us what sucked or what you liked. And yeah, we may or may not take that

1081
01:20:14,919 --> 01:20:18,959
feedback into consideration, but we'll certainly tell the clankers to take it into consideration.

1082
01:20:18,959 --> 01:20:22,239
So that's, that's the best I can do is to tell the clankers to fix it.

1083
01:20:22,559 --> 01:20:25,939
All right, guys, appreciate you all. And we will see you next week.

1084
01:20:35,939 --> 01:21:05,919
Thank you.

1085
01:21:05,939 --> 01:21:35,919
Thank you.