Hey, are you listening?
Good.
Now that we have your attention, welcome to...
Drumroll, please.
The Snap.
A podcast by me, your host, Katie.
And me, your host, Ainsley.
Just two girls in their 20s here to bring you a female-centric girl math tone to the
Bitcoin, Noster, and value-for-value music space.
As artists living in Nashville, we got tired of screaming into the void and tiptoeing around
a broken music industry.
Looking for a new way forward, we came across this space.
And thought, why not give it a try?
In this podcast, we'll deconstruct what traditional success in the music industry has looked like so far.
How that definition is changing.
And where the space comes in.
We'll break down all of the big happenings in both the music and Bitcoin worlds, how they mix.
We'll fangirl over our favorite music in the value-verse, as well as prop up amazing voices that have yet to be heard.
We're so glad you're here.
So let's get to it.
May all acquaintance be forgotten.
Happy New Year!
no this will be released it will be released in the new year happy 2026 from 2025 i hope it's
better over there i hope it's better y'all are on the other side send us a postcard let us know
literally welcome back welcome back i knew i wanted to start the episode that way and just
like see how you would react yeah i was like well because she took a big breath and went
I was like oh there's something coming there's something a song and dance by Ainsley Costello
yeah well welcome back to the snap we're glad to be back it's been a couple weeks since we've
it has been done an episode we've both you've been across the pond and you've released a lot
of new music yes I can't tell you like how exciting it was I was sitting in the middle
of BitFest like in a seminar not seminar not lecture a panel that's why I don't know why I
couldn't remember a lecture on Noster lectures on how Bitcoin is fixing everything um I was sitting
in on a BitFest panel and I was like scrolling Noster and I started seeing all this stuff about
Catherine pop up and I was like did I miss a plot point did I forget something like I wouldn't have
forgotten that like if you were releasing new music but I was so excited about it and then like
I just kept seeing Catherine's being played on this podcast Catherine's being played on that
podcast so uh I am this is me informing you that both of our music picks on the last episode are
both Catherine songs crazy that's it's so exciting to have him out and I yeah I didn't tell anybody
purely because it's been a year in the making to get a lot of this music recorded and mastered and
mixed and okay well we have it mastered and then we listen to it again and the vocals don't match
here and and then you go back through and this was made with the old template and this is made
with the new template and they're all supposed to be sounding cohesive when yeah so it's kind of like
this has been a while in the making but early november i started talking to the boys over at
fountain shout out shout out shout out and theo specifically was like hey so we really want to
start pushing your music and we really want to help facilitate that do you have any music to give
us and I was like well do I ever yes I do um but it's not all necessarily finished and he was like
well can you get 10 to me next week and I go oh how do we get from not finished to 10 fuck me
um and he was like I was like oh okay tell you what I can get you five next week and then two
weeks after that I can give you five more so I can give you 10 it's just a little bit longer of a
time and he was like yeah yeah that's fine that's fine that's well and so I'm like and my producer
doesn't know this that I've already agreed to this he has no clue walking into the studio like hey
no so I know literally after after I get off the phone with with Theo I call him and I go hey
so here's the deal we have a lot of music that's kind of ready but not but ish and we record every
week so just for the next two weeks to prep we need to get 10 songs done and he goes and he
laughs like jake literally laughs in my face and he's like oh okay no no no like literally thinks
it's a joke yeah it's laughing like no like nice joke and i'm like no jake like i'm serious
like we okay so we need to get 10 songs done it's one song to get you know 10 songs done in two
months it's another to get 10 songs done in two weeks yeah and so i was like hey so here's the
first five they're all on the new template it's really just about mixing them and getting to the
point where what do you like them what do you say when you mean on the new template so
because jake and i have been recording for a few years together in different studios different
places different states like we've used a template what you record into in pro tools
and so there's like a standard template that every artist gets yeah and then if you're working with
somebody you can tweak it you can put it through this you can put it through that there's this
plugin there's that plugin there's this compressor that compressor so many different names so many
different numbers not my job yeah but I do know that there's multiple different templates that an
artist can go through so over the past year this template is very near and dear to Jake and I as
well as the engineers at the studio that we work at because every single person in that studio has
touch to this template yeah like it is jake's pride and joy my pride and joy because it is so
tuned to every single thing within my voice yeah and every single instrument and how we like it and
how it's tuned in the reverb and so the template is the amazing thing but that's the new template
right we've been through like so many different iterations of it yeah so we could have a song
pulled that's technically quote-unquote done but it's on the old template that's like two templates
ago yeah so it sounds quote-unquote done but it doesn't sound like the one that's in the new
template so if you were to release them together there's not a cohesiveness there's not a cohesiveness
yeah so it's like okay it's done yay wrong template yeah so then it's putting that song
into the new template and he loves me I know that he does because he did pull that together
but it was really putting our head down yeah and getting it done and on my end there were like
four songs that I didn't have the second verse of oh that's always fun like panic writing in the
corner yeah this song has to come out well and I was trying so hard to not panic write because I'm
I love these songs.
Like I love the concepts and I'm,
I'm such a stickler for if it doesn't make sense,
I'm not going to release it.
Yeah.
I'm the same way.
If the words don't work and it doesn't make sense,
I will find a different song to release in its place.
There are two songs that came out and the second five that were replaced.
Really?
Yeah.
There were two songs that aren't even on that aren't.
Okay.
Interesting.
I pulled because I couldn't finish them in the way that I wanted to.
All songwriters.
two different songs in their place. Yeah. Hot take all artists and songwriters. Um, not all,
maybe, I don't know. This is just coming from someone who loves lyrics. Um, you know, it's cool
in pop songwriting. Number one main rule of pop songwriting is it doesn't have to make sounds,
just has to sound good. We should be striving to write, you know, lyrics that make sense.
And like, Hey, maybe we should take a lyric first mentality. Sometimes they just putting it out
there it's and I mean hot take but especially in this world of AI yeah where you can now an AI can
listen to my discography that I just released okay just released yeah and can write five more songs
exactly like it write me a song in the style of Catherine that's also part of my rhyme and reason
for putting out 10 songs that are 10 different vibes yeah because if an AI were to look at that
There's cohesiveness, but only with my voice.
Yeah.
They're different on so many different levels and you won't be able to copy that.
So if I release something that's a little bit different until I find the audience that
absolutely loves X, that's what I'm going to keep doing.
It's throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
Yeah.
That's what it is.
Can I give you my top three?
Yes.
Opening up my fountain app because I was listening to it because I had listened to a couple of
the songs in passing.
no literally I was editing the podcast the other night to put our music in for you know the last
episode that came out before this one is out and I was like oh okay I know I want to do you know I
want to put two Catherine songs in here and I was like there's a lot more here what just happened
I'm so confused I mean so just to finish the story with Jake and to get the 10 songs done
he pulled it together and got the first five to me and then the next week goes by and I had told
him like I I love this man I know how to work him the next week I told him we have we have to get the
next five done by next week so it's five and five back to back weeks yeah he doesn't know
that it's two weeks spaced.
Yeah.
So good luck.
So he doesn't know that.
So he gets all of it done and gives it to me and goes,
so you don't have the second verse on these four.
And I go, I know.
I get there And he was like but but but but they supposed to come out And I was like so no they supposed to come out next week And he was like but but but I thought it was this week And I was like it next week
And so he got his work done.
So he was able to then go and work on the new stuff.
Because mind you, in, in all of this, there's still probably six or seven songs that are new that we've done in the past two months.
Yeah.
so it's like it's always a cycle yeah and so now he's working on the new stuff I'm writing the old
stuff the old stuff's coming out now now that all of that stuff is out we can now write the new stuff
but the second five came out purely with sheer grit and determination and we're gonna get this
done and do it and it's gonna be good and fine and you know what it's the world's now and yeah
definitely it's just gotta be out it's got we just because at some point like so I didn't tell
anybody but it was that moment of like we got to put our nose down get it done get it out
and once it's out then you can breathe it's out yeah that's how I felt with xless like the album
was done and finished for just about a year before it came out and I was like because we were trying
to figure out all the the rights with all the bitcoin stuff and like how do we get these
collaborators to be okay with this and it's like I don't want to just put this up and like have a
bunch of people who are pissed off at me but also like I need this music to come out because it's
driving me crazy because also this is another thing that like I've really been thinking about
like I think a lot of people think about oh it's so great that you write music like it is it like
do you write music just for you and like then you put it out and I'm like no maybe this is the wrong
thing to say, but like I write music for other people to listen to. Yes, it is therapeutic. Yes,
I'm writing this because I have to get this off my chest. But like, that's a different thing if
you're just writing music for you. Or if you are like, I kind of see it like there are two buckets.
There's 90% of the time I'm writing in the first bucket, which is like,
when you're writing a song from the get go, you are writing it for it to be on the radio,
you are writing it to have a bunch of people like it and listening to it. And then, you know,
you know five or ten percent of the time that's when you're like oh this is like just pure
catharsis I just have to write this but for the most part we are commercial artists and we want
to write music for other people to listen to yeah I think a lot of my music I try to come from a
general lens like I write it from the perspective of like you could be listening to this song and
think it's about a friend because that's what you're thinking about yeah that's what you're
going through at that moment yeah or you could listen to this song and think it's about a
relationship because that's what you're going through but it would make sense to whatever lens
your mind is currently in that's why I want to write the way that I do is because it's like
I want it to be able to apply to everybody yeah but at the same time it is cathartic of like this
is something that happened to me and I am putting pen to paper to explain it yeah but the art is
doing it generally so that everybody can do the same yeah and that's incredibly hard and very niche
and that's the art that gets lost within exactly what you're saying which is what every artist has
to do yeah it's right so that people like it and want to stream it so that you ultimately don't eat
toast every day yeah toast hello so it's it's the it's the balance of like what works what doesn't
what people like and unfortunately we are in the court of public opinion yes always there's nothing
that you can put out that isn't going to be whether it's on a wide scale or not that isn't going to be
dissected in some way whether it's just like somebody listening to it in the car on the way
to work and being like oh that's a really interesting lyric or that's a really interesting
chord change or if it's like you know people online who are like it's like one of my favorite
artists like kelsey ballerini she has that um in one of in one of the songs on her very acclaimed
rolling up the welcome mat ep she's got a song called interlude where she's top ep changed my
life oh my god literally and i would say this with my full heart right now i would go through
a divorce tomorrow if it meant that i could write that good of a record about it there i would do
that absolutely and you hit on something that i think is very funny for artists we'll sign up for
heartbreak so we can get material out of it so yes and there's also the sense of like
if i because i can only put it in the terms of what i know and what i've like seen and experienced
but and what i've seen of others experience people's people do their best work when they're
channeling whatever emotion is going through their head into what they're doing and she's like very
publicly talked about that ep like she wasn't writing that ep for public consumption yeah like
that was the first thing that she didn't kind of like round the edges songwriting wise on like
weirdly the more specific you write something sometimes the more universal it is and it's
really counterintuitive right like there's but yeah that line in interlude where like it was
goes back to what we were talking about a minute ago it says um mom's asking if i'm okay the internet
the internet says i'm losing weight this wasn't how it's supposed to play out so which side are
you gonna take now i was like wasn't supposed to be a takedown but which side are you gonna take
now that entire lyric that entire album like lyrically insane yeah that's how i feel about
lily allen's new record too there's i haven't listened to lily allen's new record purely because
I also don't know the parasocial beef that surrounds it like and so to me I feel like I
can't appreciate it as much as the next person yeah um weirdly with that one I felt like I could
appreciate it more because I hadn't listened to her before sometimes it's easier for me to go and
listen to music from an artist who I have like no prior it's not that I didn't know who Lily Allen
was but like no prior like idolization or like yeah I haven't put this artist on a pedestal so
it's easy for me to come and look at it no expectations it's easy for me to look at it
more objectively um but yeah but let me get back to my top three on the photo series which also I
want to talk about trying to stall because you're like top three which also I want to talk about the
branding of this and how you landed on like the photo series and everything number one I come in
the first thing I tell Katie today is and I keep in mind when I the worst descriptive adjectives I
use the more I love something scoot foul filthy ridiculous beat I heard that and I was like what
in the hell is what just came out of Catherine's mouth yeah why is she singing on that song
sit down and let me tell you how much I love this song scoot is my number one on this project
love I've loved body ever since I heard it like are you what who writes I have a body that men
made statues of i have the body of aphrodite literally and like i yesterday i had a songwriting
session where we were talking about like writing about overcoming like generational body dysmorphia
and i was like oh katherine would be proud katie would be proud um and then also in and out love
that so cool i did have to say though i saw that and maybe it's just because um you know nashville
now has in and out burger which is a whole thing we could talk about i did also and maybe my mind
does not normally work like this but my songwriting session i had yesterday she one of my co-writers
texted me and she was asking about a lyric and she was like hey like is this maybe this is just
how i heard it but like are you hearing a sexual innuendo in this and i saw in and out and i was
like what are we talking about here do you think what's going on here it was not what i was expecting
which I was like okay cool it would have been cool if it was that too well no it's a double
entendre it is absolutely a double entendre um I I am secretly an English professor at heart
and I love using metaphor simile double entendre on a lot of people hyperboles I love using we love
the english language yeah i mean so in and out is definitely a double entendre yeah
and i wanted people to listen to it and have it be a little bit jarring because the first lyric
is in and out and then you go oh what the fuck is she about to say like what is she gonna say
and you go my memory is in and out oh oh oh she's talking about memory okay okay um and now um and
Or up and down.
Oh, shit.
My heart rate.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, I see.
Heart rate, heart rate.
Like, that's what I was going for.
No, and you definitely did that.
Because then when you, like, you switched it to In-N-Out, My Memory is In-N-Out, I was
like, is this about to be about, like, a trauma we've gone through that we don't remember?
No, no.
Like, what?
Wow, we're getting really deep on the photo series.
Yeah, how much do we drink?
Yeah.
I mean, because that song really is supposed to be like, holy shit.
you woke up in somebody's bed and you're trying to remember what you did how did we get here how
how did how did we get here and why am i kind of liking it because i should be very much panicking
right now like like there's that like oh oh uh oh yeah so in and out very fun to write and that was
actually shopped around with a few people for a second verse and like a collaboration song and
ultimately it just came to the people that would write on it just were making it
either too sexual because the beauty of the song is that you can listen to it and it's not about
sex no it not and you hear it and you like oh it about you can i drank too much last night and i woke up on the couch uh like you can listen to it and hear that or you can listen to it and hear something else entirely
yeah it depends on where your mind is at as well absolutely and that's what no artist could
replicate that that I was trying to write with they would make it either too sexual or not talk
about it at all not like live in the gray in that middle area yeah they there there was a beauty of
the song of you had to stick in that gray yeah that somebody could listen to it either way
and so ultimately it just came to it was just my song yeah but it was try it was cool trying to
collaborate with other artists and seeing if they could also kind of live in that and
it just didn't come out that's okay somebody else it's like we were talking about before we started
recording the genius was like this is katherine's song the the little elusive magical genius that
comes and visit you visits you but that is something that I think I also tried to accomplish
on people pleaser um because that song is about like setting boundaries and saying no I don't
want to do this if I'm I've been you know people pleasing you but I would like you to please me
like and there's a little bit of an innuendo there with that and it's like it's not weird or it's not
creepy and like I felt like we did that in a pretty empowering way especially with someone who
like I've been very afraid to kind of step into that like more sexual innuendo world but um yeah
I just I love when artists do that okay but talk to me about the photo series how did you land on
pictures and that kind of imagery and marketing it came down to two things
I feel like I know what you're gonna say I had a friend and a camera
and that's about it was Jake also the one who took the pictures no Dixie was okay
his girlfriend yeah my best friend which also if you're listening to this in the new year we
probably have a new cover art on this where you can actually see what we look like and jake took
those pictures of us yes he did take those pictures um truly it is a village here like
it really just came down to indie in-house people no truly i i had 12 songs well 10 songs
on fountain and then it's going to be 12 on dsps over the next year though yeah so you guys are
gonna have these songs for a year and everybody else is gonna wait every month so just know that
as well we're feeding you well feeding you well come on now mother is feeding us i'm trying man
i'm trying hard mother ate and left no crumbs i'll be i'll be the the gen z brain rot in in
your nostril comments be like mother feed us more eight left no crumbs i'm trying and so
releasing all of those will be good but for the time being
yeah it was just i had 10 songs yeah that i needed to put out and i go okay i have two options
i have either release it as an ep do one cover and figure out like a very nice cover
and spend the money on that or i do two nice covers two eps release it that way
or i have to come up with 10 covers which is hard which is so hard to be creative all the time
it's hard to be like okay i have to come up with 10 covers on top of all of the other shit that i
need to do for promoting this and recording it and writing it and there's so many ands yeah and
it's like okay I don't have a big budget I have 10 faces that I can make yeah
no and that's like that was the mindset for me around like x-list is an album it's out on the
DSPs as an album but you know over here in this world like you listen to all those songs even
though like I didn't release it as an album over here but they all have different covers so like
they can be differentiated and like that was like I've been there before like I know what it's like
to every week like okay we're shifting this song is blue this song is red this song is purple and
then you're doing different makeup looks and then you're trying a million different poses and then
you have to put it into Final Cut Pro and then you have to put it into Canva and then you have
to do this and that and that and it's a lot it's a lot there's there's a lot of like not only am I
the artist but I'm the artist the digital media the manager the content creator the photographer
the recorder the yeah it's the and y'all wonder why artists are tired of singles like in some ways
it's way easier to put out an album than it is to put out singles it is and also trying to like
talk to my corporate friends about this like yeah I I have 12 songs to show for a year's work
which like to music industry people were like that's a good year but like normal outside world
people would hear that and be like only 12 right right it's like well like that's a lot of my
parents they're like you've been spending how much for how many songs and you've been doing this
every week and it's like okay by today's standards I understand the rage 12 is a lot of songs to
people who understand how much work it it takes to put it to make those songs that's a lot of songs
but the thing is and it's 12 and and this is where I feel solid because it's 12 songs that are final
yeah we have probably about 20 yeah 20 30 that aren't final it are like one verse that are being
shopped around for collabs that are like there are so many pots on the burners man and like also
you have to write a hundred songs to get 10 good ones yeah that's what it is at the end of the day
well and it's working with the right people because i mean we write in different ways sometimes
it's there's a guy that we go to for guitar and sometimes he'll send riffs and that's what i write
to and then from that riff we take it to the studio and then jake makes a beat into it well
i already have this first verse but then oh fuck we don't have a baseline for it called call our
friend that does bass for it and then ultimately that song could go from a guitar loop to an
entirely new song in one month but that's a shit ton of work if you're gonna do four songs
the same way on top of that at the same time and
I love it it's one of the things that keeps me going but it's it's a lot for one brain to process
on top of a full-time job yep it's a lot to process when it is your full-time job too
yeah like it's it's hard out here we love it we do it for a reason but you know I think that's a
I think a frustration that I think a lot of artists have with the outside world like people
would say like oh there's only 12 songs or oh like it's not hard to write a song like you can just
you know get an idea and write it in a couple hours nope uh-uh like I get how it goes like
there's there's a process to things and all we'll say is
starting the process is one thing making sure that it continually works is another thing like
starting a song from start to finish and doing it with one engineer awesome great cool perfect
like get that done in a week or so you can try really hard yeah you can get it done and
when you're paying someone there's an incentive yeah absolutely and so there's something to be
said for that and but I think it is harder as well to obviously build relationships with people
but building that over time and building a working model that runs well is so hard like with the
right people and knowing what everybody's strengths are you have to know them for a specific amount of
time like the the guys that i'm working with we've all known each other for three years four years
and know each other's strengths and weaknesses and i will say not everything runs like a smooth
well-oiled machine but it's getting there it's the beauty of building it and finding the right
people and building that team and knowing who you're with and building a support system yeah
that can help you and say okay like there's there's an engineer that specifically we ask
to listen to the music because we know he'll say it's shit yeah like because he will listen to it
that's important and go i don't like this i don't like that i don't like this i don't like that
that sucks that's off time you need to chop that up yeah katie your vocals sound absolutely trash
did you have any tea or what did you do like before like there's like and he is just brutal
yeah and but it took a year for him to feel like he could be comfortable doing that because
for a year he would just listen to the music and nod and go yeah that's good yeah and then walk
away but it took a year of being like no say what you're thinking like please just tell me it's not
gonna hurt my feelings just tell me yeah but those relationships are truly where the music industry
is yeah but you get lost when you go to these big labels and like are kind of farming out for those
type of things like that's where the core of the music industry is yeah and i'm i'm grateful to be
a part of it and like build but it takes time it a lot of like a time that you constantly swimming to willing to
But now I'm looking for a place to call home
But can I leave it?
A new city and a new shitty bed
This is living
It's not bad for a kid who just wants to make it play
And you are the only one that I needed
And you are the only one that I've known
And I'm chasing the blue skies
You know stranger to a life on the road
You're escaping
So we've made it a life on our own
Who's complaining
And you are the only one that I needed
And you are the only one that I've known
And I'm chasing the blue skies
And I've been looking for a reason to drop by
All of us on a new ride
On each other's side
I know it won't be all sunshine
But when we sing our first lullaby
We'll know that we got it right for spending the time
So come spend it with me
you said something a few minutes ago that i thought was really interesting and it kind of
points to one of the things that i wanted to talk to you about surprise surprise ainsley has more
headlines to dissect okay so have you heard of udio before no or i don't know it's either udio
or UDIO? How's it spelled? U-D-I-O. I'm taking it as UDIO. For UDIO, that doesn't sound right.
Anyways, I saw a headline. This is from October 29th, 2025. UDIO is an AI-powered music generation
platform that allows users to create original songs complete with vocals and instrumentation
from simple text prompts. UMG, the world's leader in music-based entertainment and UDIO,
an AI-powered music creation platform, today announced industry-first strategic agreements
under which the company settled copyright infringement litigation
and will collaborate on an innovative new commercial music creation consumption and streaming experience.
In addition to the compensatory legal settlement,
the new license agreements for recorded music and publishing will provide further revenue opportunities
for UMG artists and songwriters.
The new platform, which will be launched in 2026, will be powered by new cutting edge generative AI technology that will be trained on authorized and licensed music.
This new subscription service will transform the user engagement experience, creating a licensed and protected environment to customize, stream and share music responsibly on the Udio platform.
Now, I read that as.
Yeah, OK, now we're making it legal and agreeing that AI can be trained by our catalog.
when just a couple months ago we had a bunch of labels all up in arms it's it's a step what we
had a couple months ago we had a bunch of labels all up in arms about like we need to well some
the labels themselves were always kind of complicit in this behavior it was really the rest of the
music industry that was like no you shouldn't allow ai to be trained off of your artists with
no compensation and also the artist's approval.
But now UMG is basically saying,
oh yeah, yeah, I can be trained off of our artists.
Like making that decision on behalf of all the artists
instead of allowing each artist.
And this is where it gets hard
because then it just comes down to who's the master recording,
royalty, owner, and yeah.
What do you think about that?
Because you said a couple minutes ago,
I can give all of my 10 songs to, you know, an AI thing
and tell it make me a song in the style of Catherine make me a song in the style of Ainsley
Costello like what it's it's crazy to me that sounds like a step in in a test because step in
which direction a step in AI taking over music ish and that sounds like very robot takeover but
work with me yeah i'm here i think the test is if you can do it with these artists in this
controlled environment and see how it goes and quote unquote with authorization and licensing
in in that space i want to see what that authory authorization and licensing looks like
because as you were saying you're just kind of volunteering your artists for this and not really
telling them that's crazy also haha faults for 360 deal you signed it you you allowed us to do
whatever the fuck we want with this music like there's an interesting i don't know because it
seems counterintuitive like why why would you introduce your money makers essentially to the
next girl like what that's like introducing your girlfriend to someone and you know that you're
gonna date that girl and you're gonna dump the girlfriend that night like that's you know what
i mean because it's counterintuitive you're making a lot of money off of these artists that are doing
well already you have them in 360 deals so then why why are you going to introduce their catalog
to ai so that ai can essentially replace them yeah but you're already making money off of them
so what does that benefit you that's a really good point play it off to well it benefits the
artists it benefits the consumer how because my question about this is so if this is a user
generated like okay we're allowing our artists to train this thing for users to then go and say
I don't want to listen to these artists I want AI to make me a song based off of what I'm feeling
to me I kind of feel like this takes out the fun part of discovering music like going through
playlists and playlists is like searching for songs of like oh this describes how I'm feeling
in this moment or this describes how I was feeling about this you know two years ago but I never found
a song that really articulated it now like you're kind of taking out like the resistance but like
the resistance is fun a little bit about like I mean yes but honestly for the person who doesn't
like think about the guy that's in finance doesn't listen to music yeah wants this specific
type of music and wants it right now doesn't want to have to search for it doesn't want to have to
go through the playlist yeah for him this might be a good option because he can go into this app
and say give me a playlist of songs for x amount of time with x amount of voice with x amount of
bass yeah and it'll just play it but it just speaks to like the fast culture of i want it now
Yeah. Capitalism. Consumerism. I mean, because as soon as as soon as somebody can do that, that puts all artists out of business.
Yeah, literally. As soon as somebody can go into their phone and say, hey, make this, this, this, this, this, this and this.
Cool. Yeah. Like, I mean, on the other hand, though, everybody seems to agree that, you know, it's concerning that AI has the capability to do this.
But does AI have the capability to actually create good music?
We have not seen that yet.
But I mean, AI.
Like quality wise.
We started, it can't do it yet.
Yet, yet, keyword yet.
It can't do it yet.
And here's another thing that's kind of interesting.
And I don't remember if I talked about this on one of the past episodes.
So if I have, forgive me, but you're going to hear it again if I have.
I had a co-writer a couple months ago who I wrote.
wrote a bunch of songs with when I first moved to Nashville,
not ever songs that I put out.
I mean,
they were good songs that I,
you know,
had written in that,
you know,
period of my life.
And they helped me kind of,
you know,
come into the songwriter.
I am today.
Yada,
yada,
always have to preface it and be diplomatic,
whatever.
Yes.
Um,
a couple months ago,
my hand signal of Ainsley,
come on.
Yeah.
Which Katie's always being like,
Ainsley,
drop the act.
Just say how you feel.
Not even the first time she's done that as we've been talking today.
No, yeah. You guys just don't see that. I can't wait for us to start videoing these
because you'll just start to see how we communicate off the mic as well.
My internal panic and Katie being like moving along. No. I had a co-writer send me not one,
not two but five ai demos of songs that we wrote about five years ago and i will give the ai this
credit it's gotten a lot closer like the ai girl who was singing like normal scary like you wouldn't
wouldn't be able to tell but it's like what's the point it's not like and also this is another
thing about the idea of like okay yeah does ai have the the capability to like put out like a
quality recording maybe maybe when it when you ask ai or chat gpt to write a song we did this a
couple years ago when cherry on top was originally having its moment in this space we asked chat gpt
because that was right around the time that it was becoming a thing that people knew about we said
write a song called cherry on top and it wrote three songs called cherry on top and they were all
bad. So in that sense, I still have some semblance of like feeling safe as an artist that, you know,
robots aren't taking it over yet, but in other ways, like that's taking work away from demo
singers who could have done those five work tapes that I got sent or session musicians or whatnot.
And it's like, what's the point? I mean, I get it. It's convenient. Not every artist,
especially touring artists and artists who are on the road and everybody wants something from them.
They don't have time to go and, you know, write a perfectly tailored song for, you know,
mom and dad's 40th wedding anniversary.
AI is great for that.
Like, and, you know, some Midwestern couple who's celebrating their 35th wedding anniversary
is going to be tickled by that.
They're going to be like, oh, I got written a song.
I don't care who, what made it.
But it's just, it's just weird.
So I just read that as like, okay, we're fine with AI, you know, taking advantage of our
artists of our artists as long as we say yes to it as long as it's in our control yeah I mean
I think there is definitely uses for like AI music but I mean and I think this is what everybody is
arguing for with AI in all spaces there just needs to be regulation yeah like if AI could be used for
demos and radio ads and commercials and that's the only thing that ai music can be used for
cool it wipes out x amount of industries instead of wiping out the entire industry yeah and that's
a very nihilistic approach to it but at the same time we have to concede something yeah because
it's already here but that doesn't mean that we need to concede everything yeah so i mean that
would be my argument to it it's like it's already here what are you gonna do you need to put some
sort of regulation on it but you can't just take it away fully because it's gonna be used
so can't control it can't control it but okay something on this like a little bit lighter ai
like and kind of in that topic ai now is being used for so many things for like homework yeah essays
um test social write me a social caption like everything and i've been seeing an influx of
all these videos of like people our age or a little bit older of like things that happened
to me in middle school or things that i had to do in middle school that we would send middle
schoolers into a spiral yeah and it was like what would send a victorian child into a coma
literally like i'm like guys you don't understand we wrote essays hand wrote uh-huh five paragraph
essays yeah first draft revised draft and final draft like there were three drafts of this hand
written introduction main point number one main point number two you know about a hamburger
paragraph like come on yeah come on to get the ball rolling to get what do you know about
additionally the gears turning come on give me those uh introductory uh in conclusion
transitional sentences that we had yeah therefore big words additionally like there's
little things like that or um like you would have to wrap did you ever have to do this where
you had to wrap your textbook in a brown paper bag? I didn't have to do it myself, but I did have
textbooks like that that were just given to me like that. Yes. I mean, we had to have book covers
and you would get written up if you didn't have a book cover. And that meant like,
what would have to have a book cover? I mean, cause you were returning the textbook so that
the next year, the next year could use it because if the textbook, okay. I grew up in a very like
small town vermont yeah because i don't know if i ever understood this is also kind of like
this wide range like you're getting that textbook for that year that textbook has been used for
five years in front of you and will be used for five years behind you so
if you damage it you're paying for it oh yeah and those books aren't cheap those books aren't cheap
that was like a 400 book for seventh grade yeah your mom my mom would have had a cow
if she was like you did what and we have to pay for it yeah so you had to have a bat like a either
a brown bag some people would go crazy and find different paper bags that were different colors
and you could have your own thing and then I remember at the school scholastic it was a big
thing when they came out with book covers like fair the book fair like you would they came out
with book covers for textbooks and everybody went crazy because we were like oh my gosh we're gonna
have a cheetah print book cover now instead of the brown paper bag yeah guys you have chromebooks
and ipads now and you're turning things in on canvas do you know what a scantron is what do
you know about a scantron i don't know about a scantron you don't i don't know about a scantron
what did i miss out on hold up is it like the active boards or the smart boards
okay okay so disappointed in me okay so when you know when you want alpha generation
you're not that much younger than me you're not that much younger than me
we would have been in the same in the same three years of middle school together yeah so
so when you had a multiple choice like test well if you had a multiple choice question test
were you circling them on or were you bubbling something next to it it would depend on the test
requirements okay okay but the bubbles the when you're filling in the bubbles yeah that's a scantron
oh like it has to be fully filled in with no white space yes and there was always the like
this is the way you should fill it in this is the way you shouldn't fill it yes and it was the abcd
yeah yeah yeah yeah that's a scantron that's so weird that you guys called it that like we didn't
even have a name for it the scan that's what the machine is oh i see so like that's what a scantron
y'all down in vermont well and that was also arizona a little bit like scantrons like but
people don't even know what is like they don't have those anymore that's not a thing
that for standardized testing they don't get a bubbled scantron next to them
crazy what can i can i i will tell you one thing that like would make me really upset if i was a
student today because I have seen a lot I mean I'm sure you've seen them too like the videos of
these kids who are turning in their essays and you know preemptively college professors and I get it
like I would the m dash thing like college professors are like how do you be a teacher
today that's a whole conversation we could get into but if somebody came after my Oxford commas
I've seen that like professors have started taking issue with Oxford commas the same way they've
taken issue with the em dashes now excuse me i have been an oxford comma sympathizer since i was
11 years old i will use my oxford comma until the day i die now you're telling me that i'm gonna fail
if i was in college today i would fail an essay if i use an oxford comma i fear i'm also just the
wrong bitch to come at for an essay like if you're gonna i'm sorry but if you're gonna come at me for
an AI writing my essay, I will re give me a topic and I will hand write you an essay right now,
literally with the same dashes, with the same commas. And you can watch me do it. You also,
we forget that AI is trained off of humans first Like I saw somebody made a video of this the other day that made me laugh like guys I fear this book was written by AI and it was Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte or one
of the Bronte sisters because there's an m-dash in there like what well I'm sure that was a meme
yeah no I know it absolutely was but it's like thank you this is my kind of humor yeah yeah I
mean there's a lot that I think AI just in and of itself like and I love going down the conspiracy
see rabbit holes like we know me like i think it's so funny something that i thought of that
i was gonna be like just a little me thought yeah but what if ai has just always been or okay what
if the advancement of ai is coming to head with aliens about or like weird things happening and
everybody's writing off these videos as oh well that's definitely ai or like there's a lot of
things now that could be happening that now are quote-unquote easily written off as ai and that's
as far as i'll go into the like conspiracy i haven't thought about that that's gonna give me
an existential crisis because now if you think about it if something were to come out like
say somebody had a sex tape come out that's ai that's defamation blah blah blah blah you can
sue them yeah but what if the video is actually real but now you can say it's ai and blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and people will believe it because ai has advanced that far
yeah what if all the pictures from the epstein files somebody can then go in and say oh my gosh
that's all ai blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah i don't know but that's where
my head is going posed i'm sure somebody's already claimed that only that's the only little
conspiracy bit I'll get but also if an FBI I didn't say that what do you mean I'm just a girl
I am just also if you're hiring though I am looking for a job
I'll come on the deep fake team if you're hiring let me know I'm in the market
I believe that the reason for your sadness is
Goes by
An abundance of pity
That we gave you
To make you feel the madness
Of this quiet show
Of the thoughts that get you sitting
On your bed thinking why
In your mind you start to die
But please don't give in
Thoughts so deep it makes me spin
Cause I want you to see
Everything we could be
But don't try to make a sound
Cause it's too late to be found
So now we're faced with the problems of our past lives
And a hidden waste of the feelings in her empty eyes
So don't you make me put you in the past lives
That we couldn't stand
To even find a reason why
On your bed thinking why
In your mind your voice is dying
So don't try to pull me in
Cause it's nothing more than sin
And I want you to see
Everything that we can be
But don't try to make a sound
Cause it's too late to be found
Well, on the topic of Australia,
social media for kids under 16.
On the topic of AI and the dangers of it.
So, I mean, we had this topic written down a couple weeks ago
for one of the last episodes that we didn't get to about how Australia is banning social media for
kids under 16. I'd love to chat about this for a minute before we get into I think how this can tie
into the Noster conversation and like some of my like bit fest takeaways. Is Farrah eating your hand?
She is. I just look over and she's just like munching. She's having a fun time. Munch munch.
I'm letting her. I'm her sibling and her mom. Yes. So I let her. Parasocial relationship. Yeah.
but so my thing with Australia banning social media for kids under 16 I think it's a good thing
however if I was a kid under 16 in Australia right now I'd be pissed I'd be I'd be upset
because like as somebody who's been on Instagram since I was in fourth grade like it's it's wild
to look back and I think we've had this conversation before about like looking back at you know
Instagram accounts you followed since 2014 and it's like what do you mean I was on Instagram
before I knew like the difference between the Democrat and the Republican party like huh I think
it's a good thing um because I think so many of our societal issues today stem from social media
everything being fake nothing being real and the comparison game that has just completely been
blowed out of the water blowed out of proportion um what are your thoughts i think it's interesting
that now we have decided to put a ban on under 16 like in my opinion it won't work now because
you've already allowed all of the people that are like 17 18 19 like they're gonna look at the 16
year old and be like haha we had it you didn't yeah it's the i mean if we're gonna compare social
media to drugs because it has it is a drug yeah it's a hit like so if you're going to essentially
cut off somebody cold turkey and they're 16 or they're 13 14 whatever they have a few years to
get to social media they're gonna find something else to do or they're gonna find a different black
market way to get on there or they're going to create fake profiles yeah and how are they going
to police like you know a fake account that's made that says oh I'm 17 and not 16 or right like I think
if you were to make a ban like that it would have to be like okay we're banning social media use for
everybody under the age of 16 starting in year blank and it could be three years down the road
four years down the road but say this is what we're going to do so that it also gives the parents
time to say okay you're young you're not going to get social media because when you turn because
it's literally you're not going to be able to yeah like but it gives somebody else time to prepare
and like make sure that the system works because I think this also just got launched
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing yeah I'm only knocking on it because I think that when
you want to do something you're gonna find a way to do it yeah absolutely and especially with social
media and teenagers yeah yeah like you know when you in the 80s when i mean i say as if i was there
i wasn't there but you know in in the olden days oh no my dad's gonna be like the olden days
the olden days i'm gonna get called out for that one in the 1900s
in the olden days when you know parents didn't want kids to like do things in the 80s even if
we didn't have social media back then like kids still went and found a way to do it right like
there's there's so much power to touching grass yeah okay like breathe some air sunlight get some
vitamin d vitamin d like there is there's power in going outside and being off your phone and
and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada.
I think because we were raised in a generation that had both,
we understand that.
But it unfair to ask a generation that never known any differently That was never raised with both to go okay now you can yeah and for your own good trust us yeah like it hard for them to also see the
logic because as much as you want to say well they can't understand their kids yada yada yada
i would argue that because of social media a lot of these kids are faced with so many different
topics from such a young age that they have matured at a way more rapid rate yeah and in
some ways like in in some ways more than others I mean kids are going to be kids and that's a
different thing yeah but like I mean I'm having full-on conversations about political ideologies
with somebody that's 17 or 18 years old yeah or I mean even younger like you're looking at
I'm having very high intentional emotional intelligence conversations with my 13 year old
cousin yeah and I'm like I how do you know all of this yeah how is this getting into your
subconscious like how do you know these words and and it's on one hand it's great that you know
kids are so informed and we're more informed than we ever were but I think there is also something
to not censorship because that's bad of course but what I think like I remember when we were young
and like seeing school shootings happen like already that's a hard thing to kind of comprehend
even if you don't like if you're just watching that on nightly news and you don't see super
graphic things from it but today if you're a 13 year old and you're seeing what's happening in
Palestine or Congo or anywhere else in the world where bad things are happening and you're
actively seeing really graphic stuff like on one hand it's great that we're informed but also
we should just let be kids be kids and give them the option to not have to or want to worry about
those kinds of things right because there's only so much that you can like and I talked about this
therapy like a couple years ago when um you know the whole thing with Palestine really started
getting bad I was like I I want to be informed but also the more I think about this the worse my
mental health gets and I know that that's a very privileged thing to say because there are people
who live in those places in the world that don't get to just turn this off and I'm very aware of
that but that could also I it could also stunt you know that kind of growth the same way the
comparison social media thing stunted our generation's growth like being I think I don't
know if being too informed is possible or if being too informed is a bad thing but I think there is
something to be said about like you're seeing these really hard graphic things really early like
you know at some point like we need to let kids just be kids I don't know yeah I would agree and
you or I could look at whatever account is posting that and go oh that's being posted by Fox yeah
scroll past it yeah or oh that's being posted by ABC I know what bias that's going to lean towards
a 10 year old is going to see oh my gosh that's what's happening and this is the news yeah that's
all they're gonna know yeah so there's also the piece of propaganda and bias and who what
information are you getting from who and how and somebody you can't ask a 10 year old to do that
no and like when I was younger because I remember like we watched nightly news on NBC every single
night I remember thinking like oh the only bad things that happen in the world are the things
that are on the news each night which like it's heartbreaking when you find out that that's not
the case but I don't know if this next generation is going to have that because they're seeing
all these bad things that aren't on the news every night that aren't getting widely reported on and
it's like like we think that our people think that Gen Z is sad that like all of our you know
hormones and things brain chemicals are messed up like it'll be really interesting to see what's
this next generation that took it a step farther like what their repercussions are in the next
10 15 years and and i've and i've said it too and i always go back to i mean
the millennials said oh no watch out for gen z they have all the technology they're gonna be weird
and then because we had the balance it turned out fine and now we're saying to the generation below
us like ah they're gonna turn out weird because they had all the technology blah blah blah blah
blah and while that may be the case human beings are the best creature at adapting yeah and our
brains can hold so much information and we are the true nature of survival of the fittest so
there's also a part of me that's like at the end of the day if this is what you only know
is it the worst thing because you have another you you have no other lived experience
and is it the worst thing that maybe it's now becoming more like I don't know like I we we
love to sit here and chat and gab about our thoughts and things and like this is the one
where like I want to think that I know because like we sit here and we're like yeah we've now
lived it but at the same time I love putting in in the context of like talking to my grandma
or talking to somebody that's like way older than me.
Yeah.
Because then they'll say the same thing about cell phones,
about a calculator, a calculator.
My grandma won't use a calculator.
That's hardcore.
Like there's certain things that like-
Take me off social media, I draw the line at a calculator.
Right.
Like it's, no, but she's on Facebook.
No, yeah.
Psychotomy.
Yeah, yeah.
there's little things about like or the brick phone or the the landline like
we've come so far in technology that it's hard for either one of us to just be like
or to can or to like compare pandemic experiences with our parent or with our great parent great
with our grandparents and great grandparents because like yeah sure our parents lived through
this but they didn't live through it at like the critical time in their development that we did
our great-grandparents did and so like it's interesting to see of like well we had cell
phones we still had ways to connect when like you know a hundred years ago you know thought the whole
block died right it's crazy to see how history repeats itself like we're probably going to be
having another pandemic conversation with our great great grandkids well and with the ice caps
melting and yada yada yada diseases are defrosting um yeah there goes the ball there goes the ball
but i think there's a like this could also play into the nostril conversation in this sense that
we believe in nostril we see the vision we it's it's great that it's censorship resistant but this
goes back to my whole thing about I still am not at a place with Noster where I feel comfortable
urging young young female like eight nine ten like already I feel like that's a little young
but like you know those kids are on TikTok those kids are on Instagram I don't feel comfortable
asking the parents of those children to say oh yeah let your kid come over here because I mean
it's getting better like we have more mainstream people who are coming to Nostra like you like um
you know Suzanne Santo like we have more people who are coming to it and who are trying to make it
um less of like you know a fringe incel place than like it started out being um but you know
like we're still at a point where you can get on Nostra and you know you're scrolling and scrolling
and then you see a repost of a repost of a repost of someone you don't even follow and it's like
or you get on yeah you know zap stream and then this block next to it is like porn it's like we're
it's not there yet we see the vision it's like I don't know when we were in um in Manchester for
Bitfest there was a panel of like okay so what's not working with Noster and I think it was a good
conversation to have but I think it's important to remember as excited as we all are about this space
we have kind of reached a plateau a little bit and there are still a lot of things that don't
work so instead of like continuing to sing the praises of you know the vision that's great that
there's a vision let's actually like make the vision real agreed I think there's a lot to be
said for new technology and being the early adapters and knowing how that technology could
and will change but but there's always the bugs and it's just the bugs phase yeah where
i also in good heart cannot recommend a child to join the space no yeah because and i get it like i think the whole thing about nostr is that it not censored There no government control There nobody coming in and saying that you can do this you can do that
Like, it's the freedom to do whatever you would like to do.
In that, okay, cool.
It's the freedom to do whatever you would like to do.
But you have no way of making sure that your users are safe when you do that.
so there needs to be a balance of yes you're free you can do whatever you'd like but maybe
some sort of moderator or some sort of um some some sort of checks and balances yeah because
until that happens i can't recommend this to a child yeah and checks and balances i don't even
think has to be oh we have a former president that's coming on here and spewing lies we're
going to de-platform him like I don't think it needs to be that I mean though I do kind of agree
with that you know decision of like Twitter taking Trump off because like of course but it doesn't
have to be that extreme over here but definitely checks and balances like when we were in BitFest
like I had a lot of people coming up to me and it's not getting angry it's like I guess more
frustrated about like why aren't you bringing more of your fans over here number one I've tried they
won't come because everybody is still so ingrained in the traditional social media space. Number two,
I can't recommend this when I and myself have, you know, weird trolls who are coming over here.
And at the end of the day, yeah, I'm an artist and I'm glad to be the guinea pig for this space,
but I am still a woman on a young woman on the internet who like comes over to Noster and I feel
uncomfortable by some of the comments sometimes. And I feel uncomfortable by some of the people who
constantly DM me or comment on things or make these innuendos. And again, that's something that
you're never going to be able to escape with social media, but the other social media platforms
have been able to mitigate that in some sense. And so in this, I think ties into something else.
I was in, um, DC a couple of weeks ago and had, um, a really lovely Q and a session. And we did
an acoustic version on Cherry on Top, which was fun, with David Tarr and Trey from Bitcoin District.
And one of the questions that David asked me, which I was like, yes, thank God somebody asked
this question, is like, what did the traditional music industry do well that needs to be replicated
over here? And I was like, yes, this is such a good question. Because did the traditional
music industry and, you know, social media realm do everything perfectly? No. Were there visions
that they had that they, you know, didn't execute well? Sure. But the music industry really tried to,
from the get-go, protect intellectual property rights. It really tried to protect songwriters
and artists. Did that always end up happening? No. And the same goes with social media, like with
the Australia thing. Are they setting out to do the right thing? Yes. Is it probably going to work
the way that they want it to no but with Noster like we we can't just say like oh anti-establishment
f the man like we're just gonna do our own thing over here because that's not how we're gonna get
the masses to come over here and we want the masses to come over here unless you know the
vibe has changed and everybody's like no I'm glad to like keep it the same people but right there
it's just the same people on Noster right now and it's just the same artists uploading you know
music to these new platforms and I think we can't lose sight of the goal that we want more people to
come here so how do we it's compromise how do we meet people in the middle it's also a little bit
harder for you as well when your demographic is a bit younger yeah for sure and you also have the
responsibility of like making sure that they're safe as well yeah so I mean that makes sense as
well for pulling your audience over i think pulling any audience over is just gonna be hard
because not a lot of people hear the bitcoin name and go yay sign me up yeah you know so there's
just always gonna be that stigma until there isn't yeah it's gonna it's gonna be like the internet
stigma how people were like oh don't buy things online you can't do that and now you know you know
27 new body suits just showed up on my doorstep from amazon right like there's or people were
using tiktok shop and now people use it for so many different things like there's it's cool
it's not cool not cool not cool until it is yeah and it's just waiting for that tipping point
and I think as soon as that tipping point happens there will be some more monitored things
because when you have that big of an influx of people you have to have some way of monitoring
that and somebody's got to know that I can't be the only one that says that for sure like you know
so there's got to be something that happens on that end while still being able to say
you're free to do whatever you'd like you're free to do whatever you'd like without causing others
harm and i fear that is the general social agreement that we all sign yeah you know free
to post whatever you want but within the parameters of like be a good human and don't be a troll don't
be an asshole right and to the weird dms and weird people online i agree like i i don't it's
not appreciated but at the same time like i guess thanks for calling me pretty i don't know
no literally like i guess thanks but like don't be weird man yeah don't be weird don't be weird
i think all in all this space has a lot of good and is going to grow yeah and i think it's about
the right people shaping it so that it grows in a responsible way yeah and i think you're right
Like there's always going to be the stigma until there isn't.
And, but there's, I mean, this is another thing we wanted to talk about a couple of weeks ago, but didn't get to.
I think we've made really good strides with the whole news about Square and how, you know, Square now accepting Bitcoin payments,
which means that there are over like 4 million something merchants in the U.S. that have Square terminals that are now able to accept Bitcoin.
Like that's crazy.
That's amazing.
That is a huge deal.
And that's, I mean, that's something that requires people that use Bitcoin to start then advocating for it.
Yeah.
Asking when you see a square payment, hey, can I use Bitcoin?
Yeah.
Like that then puts the legwork back on us to say, okay, we've given you, we've facilitated a way for you to use Bitcoin.
Now go and use it.
Because if nobody uses it, it's like a show that you absolutely love that you find two years late because you wanted it to get renewed.
But when they wanted to renew it, nobody thought it was cool.
Yeah.
And now you can't go back in time and renew it because all the actors are doing different things.
Yeah.
So you don't want to be that guy.
Don't want to be the guy.
And I think my big takeaways from BitFest is like there was a lot of excitement around the square thing.
um but it was also encouraging to hear that I think there are some people in the space who are
like not some there are there's a good amount of people who are being honest and are like
hey that there's there is still it's important to remember that there is still a lot of things
that aren't working the way that we want it to yet and it's important to not just say
hooray hooray hooray look at the vision but we have to execute the vision agreed yeah agreed
but um yeah I mean otherwise England was so cool I had a great time I got my ears pierced again I
got I got my third I got my third lobes I know I was noticing I was like there seems to be
something different on that ear stack thank you yeah it's uh I went um my mom and I we went and
had lunch with the fountain boys which also we said that earlier and I was like that could have
been um the great band name I was about to say that could have been the the k-pop demon hunters
boy band the fountain boys i was just thinking that so nick oscar theodavidas if you guys want
to start a band start a band called the fountain boys put it on a fountain we'll play it on the pod
and we'll interview you about your first album and i think on the next podcast we can truly get
into your london experience yeah and it'll be fun fest and let's do it everything and so we'll catch
you this time next week happy 2026 it's been so fun and real thanks for listening to the snap hope
you like our new cover art hey and if you do comment if you don't don't comment and also
hope you guys know hope you guys like how it looks can you again on that postcard send us
some suggestions because we haven't even figured out what it is yet yes please yeah but this has
been The Snap with me, your host Ainsley. And me, your host Katie. And we'll catch you next time.