Hey, are you listening?
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Now that we have your attention, welcome to...
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The Snap.
A podcast by me, your host, Katie.
And me, your host, Ainsley.
Just two girls in their 20s here to bring you a female-centric girl math tone to the
Bitcoin, Noster, and value-for-value music space.
As artists living in Nashville, we got tired of screaming into the void and tiptoeing around
a broken music industry.
Looking for a new way forward, we came across this space.
And thought, why not give it a try?
In this podcast, we'll deconstruct what traditional success in the music industry has looked like so far.
How that definition is changing.
And where the space comes in.
We'll break down all of the big happenings in both the music and Bitcoin worlds, how they mix.
We'll fangirl over our favorite music in the value-verse, as well as prop up amazing voices that have yet to be heard.
We're so glad you're here.
So let's get to it.
All right.
Hello.
Hi.
Guess where we are today.
We're in my new house.
Hashtag first of many podcast episodes to be recorded at the new place.
Yay.
It's so exciting.
We have so much room.
I'm sitting in a lovely pool of natural light right now.
It's wonderful.
I'm warm.
Yeah.
Are you warm over there?
I am.
I can always put the shade down too if it gets too hot.
No, I love it.
If I can figure out how to work these shades, that's a different thing.
That's the real question.
Well, okay.
These are the easy shades.
It's upstairs.
They have, it's like that you can make them half shades, which are really cool.
But there's what are half shades?
So you can put them on the lower half of the window or the top half of the window.
And you can kind of move them around a little bit.
And for a girl like me who's been living in apartments with the same brand of shades, mind you, every single time.
and I've been in different apartments for five years so these are new to me um so if you have
any suggestions on how to work the shade on how to work like half shades please let me know
and they kind of like split too like it's a weird thing I'll show you later yeah um but it's been
good um I was in here for a little bit before I had my furniture in because it ended up going
better to buy the house with the furniture that they had in it so i acquired a bunch of furniture
and a good amount of it i really liked so i'm gonna keep but then there was some of it that i
didn't like that was a little bit older kind of looked a little bit like it was in a hotel kind
of corporate-y and i was like okay so i'll get rid of that and then having movers come in and
paying movers an arm and a leg but it being so worth it yes it was so worth it absolutely because
trying to convince my friends to move all of my furniture up three flights of stairs fuck no
are you kidding i would have i don't care if i would have scratched my fingers i know
instantly but like the thing is they're really heavy and i would not have wanted to put you
through that no like one of the great mysteries of the world to me is how people will move and like
there are specific piano mover companies yeah how you get a grand piano into a like a new york
townhouse one of the greatest mysteries of the world i mean my dad was talking about that he was
like if we ever want to put furniture on the very very top because oh like on the deck on the deck
Yes. Well, so funny kind of sidebar. My dad is a roofer and the main thing in roofing is flat roof houses are terrible to maintain and absolutely horrible for leaks because they're never built properly.
Interesting. I know that information. He knows that information. I don't know that information.
I bought a flat roof house. Knowing full well. Knowing full well. And have we spent a good
amount of money in fixing leaks that the previous owner didn't declare? Yes.
So it's been a roller coaster and I haven't fully been able to be in here,
but we've had it for almost two months now. That is so weird to think about because how many.
I've only been in here for about two weeks.
Yeah.
That is weird to think about.
No, like we, it was, it was funny a couple of weeks ago after we were done recording
a certain episode, I don't remember what it was.
Katie was like, oh, I mean, we can go and look at the new house.
Do you want to go and look at the new house?
And I was like, what kind of question is that?
Yes.
Absolutely.
Give me some chairs.
I'll put them in the trunk.
We're going over.
We're going to make this a productive trip.
And so it was, it was funny the first time coming over here to see all the mismatched
furniture the previous owner left behind like there was a murphy bed in the house at some point
and then there was very like corporate like you're right there was some kind of corporate stuff but
then the sofa we're sitting on right now is like so warm and inviting because this was here right
this was here yeah the sofa was here the coffee table was here i loved this coffee table i saw it
and i immediately was like low-key if nothing else comes with the house i kind of want the coffee
it's funny i saw this again this morning and i was like is this this wasn't yours before no but it
it it really matches with your it's prior dinner it's so your vibe yeah so it's so my vibe so
essentially what we're looking at is a wooden table that is kind of like look like almost lincoln log
vibe on the bottom and then on the top is like a just a sheet of wood that's kind of split in the
middle it's it's cool okay just trust me it looks like a like a river through a ravine the split
yeah and okay my cat loves it because she can sit underneath and she can see through the slit
yeah of like people sitting on the couch and she can still be like her little shy self
so when we got here and i sat my stuff down she was kind of like looking around like okay
when are we going home oh like she was not really realizing that like okay this is where we're
staying yeah and then we slept here and there was a bunch of like different stuff around and she
could like kind of smell different things it wasn't until i got the furniture in here that
only happened literally like a week ago not even a week ago at this point
um that she kind of looked around and she was like
okay the stuff is here you're here there's new stuff here but you're staying here and you're
coming back here are we here and so since she's kind of adjusted to like oh wait now i can run
around wait i can play ball and there's a lot more space for me to like get the ball she brings that
ball with her everywhere oh that's so cute it's the cutest thing like if we're if i'm down here
and i'm folding laundry or making dinner or doing something she will have her ball right next to me
and i'm throwing her ball from wherever i'm at she will bring her ball to me wherever i am
if we go upstairs or i say we because she is my shadow yeah if i go upstairs to do something she
comes right with me and she's carrying her little ball if i go downstairs to like go take the trash
out she comes downstairs with her little ball the best thing is she's figured out this cat
she's figured out that if she stands at the top of the stairs and she has her ball and she bats it
and it goes down the stairs whoa i've created my i've created my own chase whoa this is crazy yeah
and she'll like i will wake up in the middle of the night to hear her like down the stairs oh
that's so sweet but all of us is saying like there has been different things going on that i was not
expecting that everybody says like when you get a home you're gonna have things that happen that
are not expected yeah you have to pay for that you're like what the fuck did that come from yeah
like what do you mean um one of the gotchas was my washer um there was a super like because this
house is newer the washer is newer and i haven't i've only like i've been in apartments for five
years like i've only had like the really small washing machine that's they look like they're
from the 90s it looked like they're from the 90s like not like i had to run the dryer three times
for it to actually dry like you know what i mean like so that's what i'm used to and then i get
here and these like quote unquote high tech and it says low dispenser like low detergent for the
dispenser and i was like what do you mean there's like a little drawer i put the dispensing in there
put it back in like i don't know what you're talking about and it keeps on giving me this
message and so i look on youtube and it was like okay well you put more detergent in the tank and
i was like cool the only thing i see a place to put detergent in is like this little drawer
so i put like half a bottle of detergent in the drawer
wrong place to put it um close the drawer call someone and i say hey um don't think this is
working properly this is after mind you after the home inspector has looked at it and said that it's
fine after um a different contractor has looked at it run it unplugged it manually reset it and
said that it's fine and now i've looked at it and i'm trying to do my fucking laundry and it is not
fine guys no two different men i've looked at this thing and said it was good no it's not
so I have to call a repair company mind you I have also been moving and working and this has
not been my number one priority yeah so I wasn't able to get on anybody's radar for a few weeks so
then I get an appointment the guy comes looks at it for like 30 minutes and goes okay so you see
this drawer down here and i go were you just putting it in the wrong place yeah i was putting
it in the wrong place and but the thing that made me feel a little bit better is that he goes
but i've never seen a washer like this before yeah and i've been doing this for like 15 years
like i i've never seen a washer like this before and i don't know if he tells that to every client
to make them feel better hey well that's a good that's a good serviceman right there but keep them
coming back but i've now been able to use my washer but that was a doozy yeah different doozy um this
has a garage like a garage the garage door yeah when you buy home home come with garage door
garage door has bob yeah open door uh that sold to next owner with garage with bob open door I speaking in Cape Man because I was so mad about this
It was so funny.
And so when I buy the house, when I get, like, closing all of those things,
show up, the realtor, my realtor, looks at me and she goes,
so in the closing it said that it declared that they had two different fobs
for opening the garage, but they said that they never got them.
So I just bought you two universal like garage remotes.
And I was like, okay, thank you.
Cool.
So I can't use the garage?
Like there's no way for me to kind of like get in and out if I'm moving.
Because if I want to open the garage, I have to go through the front door,
open the garage, drive my car around, go in the garage, close it.
Like it's just a whole ordeal.
and she was like well yeah okay so i tried to get somebody to come in and like do that and it was a
whole thing yeah so it was just one thing after another after another so like the new joys of
ownership owner home ownership it's like the new movie homership yes uh featuring homer simpson uh
it's like um the new movie with leo one battle after another it's kind of weird to say yeah i
just got a house because yeah like a lot of people can't buy houses a lot of people can't
buy houses right now no i feel that sometimes too with um like when i'm talking with um like a
college student i was just in pennsylvania this weekend playing a college show which um that was
fun lovely we could talk about that in a minute but sometimes i feel that when i'm just talking
with other people our age who are just from very different walks of life like maybe they're studying
to become a doctor or a teacher or whatever and when we're kind of just talking about you know
life circumstances and whatnot sometimes I will refrain from saying yeah I mean I spend I'm really
lucky that I have parents who support me who let me live at home to the point where all of my money
that comes in I get to spend you know upwards of a thousand fifteen hundred dollars on a song
when there are a lot of people our age who are putting themselves through school because they
don't have the parental support that we do. And yeah, sometimes I struggle with that too. Like,
oh, should I talk about, you know, the money parts of it? And I think you kind of really have to be
a chameleon and adjust it to different rooms because there are some rooms where it's really
helpful to be open. Like, especially when we're talking about Bitcoin, like Bitcoin is money. Like
we have to talk about the specifics and that's kind of what is going to help continue to move the
information and the revolution along like we have to talk about money and the specifics of it but
then it's it's hard when we're talking to people all right because like everybody is struggling in
one way or another and it's like how do we connect but it's hard it's hard I think right now it's
it's easy to celebrate with people who want to celebrate your wins as well
but it's also not something to celebrate very loudly yeah when a lot is going on yeah and kind
of knowing your place in that like i just saw did you see the whole thing with um that beauty
influencer Michaela where she did a whole haul of Louis Vuitton I didn't see the specific one
but I know the the trend of influencers kind of like doing tone deaf hauls tone deaf hauls but she
was like I blacked out and I got like 70 grand worth of Louis Vuitton like nobody can do that
nobody nobody can do that especially well I mean nobody within a reasonable tax bracket
Then you look up Becca Bloom.
Who's that?
She's like a billionaire.
And her family, I say she, her family is billionaires, right?
She grew up in that and is like in finance, I want to say.
And her utensils are like the egg that's like 50 grand.
Oh, yeah.
And then she has like a private chef and talks about that
and like the high jewelry Van Cleef collections
and like all of that type of thing like that's wild a that you're posting that b that you were
allowed to do that by i mean because those type of families have like private security they have
somebody that's monitoring everything yeah so it's surprising that somebody like
and i say allow loosely because like nobody should allow another adult to do something yeah but
But I'm surprised that that's being out.
But it's so incredibly tone deaf compared to Michaela as well.
She's doing the 70 grand hauls.
And oh, here comes Farrah.
Here she is.
And it's just crazy that I think that's also done for views.
Yeah.
Obviously as well right now.
because that backlash of oh my gosh she's doing a haul of 70 grand well I want to see what the 70
grand was yeah right and like it's so then people are gonna watch it yeah and it's interesting to
have this conversation like this was kind of little detour of conversation wasn't even in our notes of
things that we wanted to discuss today but I think it's it's really interesting because one of the um
I was listening to an audiobook yesterday as we were driving back from Pennsylvania DC
called Abundance by Ezra Klein and he he co-wrote it with somebody else I don't remember the name
Derek Johnson maybe I don't know but Ezra Klein is a columnist opinion writer for either the
Washington Post or New York Times and he wrote this book kind of just on like
offering a critique for um modern left-leaning um politics and modern left-leaning politicians
because i think you can absolutely make an argument that the way that the 2024 election
turned out was because us on the left liberal leaning people we are also so set in our own ways
and we also have our own opinions of oh we need to do this this way and then we're not you know
talking across the aisle and getting things done and whatnot um and there was a really interesting
part of the book talking about housing infrastructure and kind of just greater
transportation infrastructure of the of the greater U.S. and whatnot. And so one of the
things that he was talking about that I was like, oh, I had never spent a ton of time thinking about
this, but it really makes a lot of sense. So he was talking about how in really like really blue
cities like san francisco new york whatnot how a lot of people will have um have um like these
signs that signify what our beliefs are black lives matter um everyone should be kind we have
the rainbow pride flag hanging and that's great that we are all signaling that that is what we
believe in but also at the same time people in these um more urban communities are against
more housing going up oh my gosh this is so cute kitty's just like cuddled up with pharah
pharah has decided she wants to make her her snap debut yes hi um so he was just wants to be on
it's so cute he was making the argument that i think a lot of liberal leaning people
in theory were like we cannot build so she's like just licking your face it's so cute
i was trying really hard not to um but so he was making the argument that a lot of um left-leaning
liberal people because we are so climate conscious and environmentally conscious
will say things like we can't it should be harder to build highways it should be harder to get
more houses put up but also in cities where there is a housing crisis and an affordable housing
crisis by saying no we're against these massive apartment complexes going up that could house the
homeless population in Venice by saying that we don't want that to happen that is not practicing
what our yard signs are representing for us, if that makes sense. And I don't know,
he did a really eloquent job of explaining, um, that kind of whole facet of, um, you know,
geopolitical American politic. Right. Um, but it, it was just really interesting. And I was like,
wow, that, that's a really great way to look at it. And at least it explained kind of that facet
of um you know the housing crisis to me and also like our activism and our beliefs cannot be so
just like stake in the ground yes we believe that no human is illegal on stolen land and no human
is illegal period but we have to practice that by saying you know it might kind of be worse for the
environment right now if we have to continue to put up however many high-rise buildings but also
So that is building equity for people who are struggling, like kind of going back to what this conversation was originally talking about.
So I guess that's my my book recommendation for right now. Read Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek.
I'm so sorry. I don't remember what his last name is, but it was great.
I think President Obama gave it gave it a glowing review.
a lot of people um I think across both um sides of the political aisle were like yeah this is a
great great great great take um so yeah but I was traveling uh all last week which surprise surprise
when am I when are we doing a podcast episode and I have not just gotten back from traveling
or doing something um I mean you are all over the place man yeah literally um so I was in um
I had a college show in Pennsylvania last Saturday.
And then I went and spent the end of the weekend and the beginning half of the week with my aunt in D.C.
Who this is another thing we wanted to talk about.
My aunt is a government employee who has been furloughed right now because of the government shutdown.
But she is just like the coolest person.
She's like, hey, let's go couch shopping.
Let's go furniture shopping.
We're going to make the best of this time.
Because it's funny.
Like I've just been in interior design land, interior design mode.
My mom and I were helping furniture shop and pick out paint samples for my aunt's place.
And then we come back to Katie's house and she's got all of her nice new furniture in.
And we're talking about paint swatches for, you know, her house and whatnot.
And it's really exciting.
and it's making me just like, man, maybe I need to redecorate my own, you know, accord,
my own bedroom and whatnot.
And not just bedroom, just like Katie and I were talking about this before we started.
Ooh, what do we have here?
Sea salt caramels Hold the phone Oh that exciting Oh love that I going to absolutely go for one of those No but Katie and I were talking
before we started recording. Like I am somebody who thrives on change and I've been around so
much change in the past week or so, like coming back to Katie's and she's kind of in this season
of life where it's all about moving and reorganizing and redecorating and whatnot.
and my aunt was the same way and so I'm at this like man maybe I need to just like buy myself that
duvet cover I've been wanting and get over myself because I have a weird um complex about I don't
feel like I am and this is another thing like a facet of like everybody is struggling in different
ways even if it looks like on the outside like we're all doing great or whatnot I have this thing
where I am really not not afraid but um I don't want to spend money on myself on Ainsley the person
but every spare dime I have will go towards furthering Ainsley Costello, the artist.
But yeah, I was in Pennsylvania for a college show and it was it was a beautiful day.
I got to headline FNM's Fall Fest.
But this is one thing and I'd be curious on like what your take on this is.
So every college show that I've done in the past couple of years,
it's really rare when you do a college show where um there are students our age who are out and about
who actively want to discover new music definitely I mean we could get into how you know Spotify has
influenced that about it's all about mood music and nobody wants to find new music and new artists
or whatnot but most of the college shows that I have played over the past couple of years um
as grateful as I am for the opportunities um really not a lot of students show up not a lot
of um um you know like there's always some sort of faculty there there's students who are there
who are running the event and whatnot and they're always appreciative and they're like yeah we love
the music but um one of the things that I've realized from talking to college professors and
the people who are putting on these events is that ever since COVID they cannot get students
out of their dorms to come and like socialize or um come and experience new music or be a part of
crowd and um like that's just so odd to me because I think this is another I think holdover of what
we learned from when we were in school um and my parents and my you know aunts and uncles have all
said the same thing like when they were in college the cool thing to do was go find new music it
didn't matter if you had never heard of that artist or band before it was just like cool that's the
thing to go do on a Friday night um and it's just it's really odd um to play for you know
a demographic that should be your target market but is not it is is not showing up in the way that
you thought they would yeah exactly and you know I'm always grateful for the people who listen
and who walk by and they're like yeah we love the music and whatnot um but yeah I mean that's
definitely I think a holdover from COVID at least in the music industry that I'm like that never
really came back like what are some of the things that you've noticed in the music industry that
have changed or have not bounced back since well i mean the age-old story is all of the small
businesses closing yeah and i mean i've talked about belcourt if you've listened to even one or
two you'll probably hear the name belcourt um belcourt closed because they couldn't stay open
um same thing with cabana taps couldn't stay open doing rounds like their main business was having a
writer's round every night and having people show up drink eat watch the rounds and go about their
business but people stopped wanting to show up and support the business and so then those businesses
can't stay open um and i've seen a lot of that happen i mean live music in general seems a lot
different um i think writing with people as well i i came to nashville as covid was happening and
just after so like I never got to see Nashville in its prime of being super music city and yeah
I agree like so I kind of am sad about that but I saw people rally during COVID but after because
everybody had to kind of then worry about what's going on with them and kind of how their careers
and things are going um i saw it kind of split because then you go from okay well let's support
the community let's support this place and these people to okay well i just got this opportunity
a different place i'm gonna move or i need to move back home for a little bit because i can't
afford to stay here yeah or so all of those things started happening after covid and then
you had an influx of people move in that just made it completely different yeah so I feel like
we've almost seen kind of a cycle go through in the past few years Nashville AC after COVID yeah
yeah I mean it's it's odd it's definitely weird and I could see especially for college shows
and for college individuals, they were going to school either in high school during COVID
or they were in college during COVID.
Yeah.
But they will never have that actual or quote unquote college experience.
Yeah.
So one of the things that I think I'm curious about, because I never had the typical go
to school for four years.
I mean, I went to school for the equivalent of four years.
I mean, that's how I got my degree and whatnot.
But as somebody who, and COVID aside, because that first year when you were a freshman, that was when everything was really shut down, right?
As somebody who did have the traditional college experience, and this might be skewed because Belmont is such a music school.
And it might be that, you know, everybody's going to music classes all day.
And the last thing that they want to do with their free time is like go and see a show or go and, you know, support other artists.
but like was that a thing like would you guys go and um see shows of artists that you hadn't heard
before was that something that was kind of cultivated by the Belmont culture what was the
what was the hip thing to do in your free time I mean yes like going and finding those shows
was definitely something that we were all craving and did.
There were a lot of shows that Belmont did and put on
that didn't get as much traction as they would have liked
because it kind of...
Okay.
When you're a school that presents, be independent,
do your own thing, do your own shows, blah, blah, blah, blah.
the big man is trying to screw you yeah and then the school itself puts on a show and they're
deciding who's performing who's running it who's doing what and maybe you don't feel that the
people that are performing should have been the ones chosen and other people are doing shows
on or around that time or that night or that weekend or whatever you're gonna go to those shows
yeah where would you go and see shows by um unknown artists or would you if there was like
a student show and then there was like a big like say Tate McRae was coming through that night Tate
McRae wasn't big back then but like what was what was the the pick what would it be let's go find
something Indian underground or I mean it kind of is a mixed bag yeah because there were so many
people that were in that like I want to go see indie music yeah there was always a crowd they
would go to any sort of house show yeah always um and I mean there was also just a lot of freshmen
there because they just wanted to go to a party you know yeah that makes sense you know so
it just kind of depended on if you knew the people playing or not and that honestly really didn't
matter as much as just knowing about it going on yeah and I think if there were a bigger artist
coming through it depends obviously on who they were blah blah blah but there would probably still
be people that would go to both yeah i think it's definitely skewed because belmont is just very
much camp rock it's so camp rock like i would be interested to ask this question to like like my
friend claire at she went to a wisconsin state school yeah exactly i would love to know what her
take on this would be she would not seek out shows if yeah if madison was doing a show of
unknown artists she would probably i don't know she's not the best example though because she
listens to a ton of music she listens to more music than i do um she would probably go and
seek it out but if you were to ask like her friend group no it's not really something they
would want to do yeah and that's just that I that's maybe that is in part because of COVID
maybe that is in part of how both sides of the music industry are broken from the discovery
artist piece to um the fan element um but yeah I mean I just I thought that was really interesting
and I mean all that to say I had a great time getting to play um at FNM it's funny um my drummer
Jackson he had never played a college show before and so he kind of didn't really know what the vibe
was going in and so me and Eli Eli's played a bunch of other college shows um not really with
me but with a lot of his other artists that he plays with um and we were like all right Jackson
this could go one of two ways this could either be like the best thing ever and like we walk away
with 500 new fans who are moshing at the pit the whole time and then or it could be a really great
paid rehearsal.
Can I give you this loneliness?
Can I hand you this loneliness and tell you it's all right?
It's all right.
I got enough for everyone
It's coming round for everyone
You don't believe me
You don't need to
You don't
These words go round and round and round
These words go round and round, I can't put them back
I wanna put them back If I could If I could If I could I open all We are now atFilmropshire
We are now taking a drive tour
We're part ofowa set as a minha mandropel
We are now Wohnung
During 15 нем
Emo
We are turning to Carpenaw rape
And open all your mind
Let just one thing feel and kind
I could not love you anymore
I could not
But are you gonna carry on?
Tell me, are you gonna carry on?
With what we've done
Are you?
Cause I'm too weak to bury my dog
I'm too weak to bury my dog
Gotta call my son
Not who I was
I still got love to give, don't I?
Still got love to give
Let me show you now
What we have is now
Is what we have
We have
If I could, if I could
Now open all your floodgates
And opened all your closed doors
And opened all your mind
Let just one thing feel and cast
I could not love you anymore
I could not
Rain it comes down black
My hair's gone white
Tempest be kind
And that's kind of how I try to look at those shows where, you know, for lack of a better term, you kind of end up being background music.
it's a paid rehearsal and you always get some sort of value out of it whether it's the monetary value
or the fans that you retain but at this stage in in our careers in the music industry it's so rare
to um to see both of those um pieces of value come together and so you kind of just have to
take what you can get um sometimes but it was still a great trip um another thing that i thought was
would be fun to tell you so um the show in pennsylvania happened on saturday and then that
night we drove down to stay with my aunt in DC for a couple of days. And one of the things that
had been on my bucket list was to, um, go to the strategy building in Virginia. Um, and it was so
cool. The lovely and amazing Ella Huff, like gave my mom and I like this incredible tour of the
strategy building. And then we went and had lunch with her and kind of just caught up and got to
know each other a little bit more because I think I've always like thought that Ella is just like
the coolest person and I've only met kind of I've known her from afar and then the past couple of
times that I've met her like we've been like okay cool this is great like kind of like getting to
know each other a little bit more every time we see each other um but she was just so wonderful
she gave us a tour of um like the bazillion floors of the strategy building um they have a
podcast studio so if and when we interview Ella maybe we go and do it at the strategy building
we just bring the podcast box um but it's so cool right no literally no she showed us um
she showed us the room and somebody was like actively in their podcasting we're like oh sorry
but it's so cool they've got like a full coffee bar and lunch lounge and gym and showers and then
also they have the whole co-working space that has like this beautiful view of Virginia um and
then like they're all like the fancy higher up offices i think are on the top floor but um wow
it was just the coolest experience and so getting to know ella and her story a bit more what was
your favorite part about the strategy building oh i mean the the co-work spaces was really cool
because one of the things that I've just done in the past week or so
is become a member of the strategy co-workspace.
And you can sign up.
I'm pretty sure it's for free.
Don't quote me on that.
You might have to talk to the business manager, Julie Costello, on that one.
But if you are a member, it's not like some of the other Bitcoin co-workspaces
where you have to be a member for a yearly fee or something.
um you can just reserve a room and go and work you can go and have meetings there um and I mean
like the building itself is just beautiful and it's kind of the most I think when you think of
growing up and getting a big girl job and like working in this beautiful high rise and then
there's all this like great shopping around it and then it's like a beautiful day too like
it was just one of those where one of those moments where I was like oh this is like what
life could be like I mean and that goes back to I think we were having this conversation a couple
weeks ago that idea of like oh well what do we do if if it's not music if we decide it's not music
in a couple of years and it was just one of those where I'm like oh this is a possibility but it's
also kind of the best of both worlds because I think we're both in this phase of life where we're
actively still chasing music and that is the big thing yeah but then also we do kind of get to step
into the businessy side of things every once in a while and be like no I'm gonna show up with my
pantsuit and I'm the boss of this table you know yeah oh my gosh yeah I um I had a few different
like music things happen recently where I had like a few different co-writers come in or
other people and I had this girl want to come in and we were talking and like blah blah blah
and she texted me the night before and she's like hey just letting you know like um my friend is
gonna come and i was like like what do we mean by friend like a friend writer like producer or just
a friend in general not like no other context besides like friends and i was like hey interesting
okay vibes and I was like okay I um I would rather it just be kind of us and the engineer
um and see how it goes from there and she was like oh okay sounds sounds good but it's kind
of like a back and forth of we're talking about writing we've called about this a few times and
There's never been a mention of bringing somebody else.
And then when it gets right to, like, recording,
they're like, oh, I'm going to bring somebody.
Yeah.
And it was kind of like, okay.
Like, I want to see that you're able to come in and, like, show your chops.
Yeah.
It's okay to be nervous.
Like, I'm nervous going into the studio.
But also, I'm not going to be like, hey, can I bring Dixie?
Yeah.
Like.
There's a studio etiquette that happens that it's interesting, I think.
And this probably isn't even a Nashville problem.
I think this is probably even more of a thing in LA.
Like some of the, like the stories that you hear from some of these legacy guys who have
been in the industry for, you know, however many years and like worked on a John Mayer
record or a Kanye record or something like the, the stories they would say of like, Oh,
we didn't start recording until four in the morning because everybody was over at the
studio for a hang.
And I don't know if it's just me and I'm being a prude, but part of me is like, when you
go to the studio, you're there to work.
Like for us, that's our office space.
that's our nine to five and we treat that with a lot of care and respect it's not you know it's
not the coffee house to like go and kind of get to know someone I mean of course when you I think
there's a good balance of when you know the people that you're working with and it's it doesn't feel
like a nine to five yeah but you're still there to like record and get stuff done and work but
yeah it's kind of I've known people too to like rent out a studio time and like throw a party and
I'm like what are you doing like what why would you spend that money so I don't know like there's
just a different culture especially with different genres of music yeah definitely um about how to
promote things and no I mean I I get that too like whenever I go to the studio and especially
with somebody who I've never worked with before but even with the producers who I have a really
great rapport with um and I know them they know me like we know what the goal is when we're walking
in I in but probably to my own fault because I think I've started to realize like maybe I need
to just like loosen up a little bit and maybe I do need to be a little bit more friendly not in
the sense of like I'm rude to the people I'm working with friendly in the sense of um you know
what I mean? Like, oh, hi. Like we can't like catch up for a minute when we're here, but almost like to a fault sometimes with me, I'm going to a place. And if I know we're going to be there for three hours, I'm like, oh my gosh. Hi, how are you? Great to see you. Okay. This is what we're doing today. Like, because I respect my time. I respect your time. And it's, it's just, it's
interesting to see like who that you know piece of information comes naturally to and who has to
learn that by like having you say hey I would actually just prefer if it's just the two of us
like because we are here but how was the the song you guys ended up writing um it was fine I mean
it was one of those like you kind of go back and forth and you're trying to figure out each other's
writing style yeah and how to kind of navigate each other without like stifling the ideas but
kind of keep it on a direction where it sounds cohesive yeah but the thing that I've stumbled on
in the past with rights in Nashville is you tell somebody that you write you get to the right
and then either you or the other person steamroll
and kind of like you're writing the majority of it
or they're writing the majority of it
and it's kind of like you're battling for being cohesive.
Dominant.
Yeah, to be dominant but then you're trying to make it work.
It really just doesn't.
so it didn't exactly feel like that because i mean after doing a few of those you kind of go
okay there's ways to navigate this and there's ways to kind of like move on from how those ideas
go yeah um but it was a little bit interesting i mean we ended up with something good so
would either of you record it um not yet because we didn't fully complete the whole thing like we
got up into the bridge yeah but or like would you see it coming out under your artist project or
their artist project i could probably see it coming out under theirs okay um not so much mine
because it feels a little bit less r&b yeah um but i don't know i don't know yeah no but it really
is so rare to find a collaborator not even just in nashville just everywhere where it is a perfect
blend where the the energy is is matched between the two of you the um determination is matched and
the the creativity matchup it's it's so rare I'm so spoiled with Jake yeah I forget about that I'm
like Jake and I have known each other long enough and I've been working together so like long enough
that it's kind of like I just go on autopilot and it's so easy that I forget when I work with other
people as well like okay no these are the things that Jake and I had to kind of go through two years
ago yeah to figure out how that went but like okay now we have to go through the same thing and
And it's like, oh, that takes so much time.
It does.
Like what I just so kind of building up that team and doing it with the right people and kind of waiting it out is always worth it.
But yeah, I forget that I have it so good with Jake.
Definitely.
For sure.
Built up enough
To ask you the question
Why yes of course you said
Or was I mistaken
I thought lovers told each other what they love in one another
But you never speak, but still never listen
I'm trying to talk, but I'm getting nothing
So present for keeping your distance at the same time
So close I can feel your breath on my ego
God, it's your cold, don't let go of me
My love's not in the design of your perfect little mind
I hate to call, cause I don't wanna bother
But you signed up for this, now you've ripped off the waiver
I thought you said you want this
I thought you knew what you wanted
If you've changed your mind then tell me
So present but keeping your distance at the same time
So close I can feel your breath
All my yokes
I've got a joke, don't let go of me
My love's not in the design of your perfect little mind
I, I, uh,
One of the things that I did when we were driving up to Pennsylvania was, you know, over the past year or so,
I've been culminating what songs I'd want to record for my next project.
And it's in my little disco playlist, and I'm, like, sending it out to people, like, seeing,
hey, what songs do you gravitate towards?
What do you think of this?
What do you think of that?
And so my mom and I listened to it because my mom hadn't had a chance to kind of listen through everything.
And so, and I wonder how you feel about this, too.
so I there's about 13 songs in there right now that I think are the best of what I've written
in the past year year and a half or so um that I know they're either basically ready to record
or they need some zhuzhing but there's a lot of potential to have that be um on a cohesive
yeah project and I find myself constantly towing this line of and probably not really towing it
more so as like landing on the selfish artist side where I'm like this is the best thing I've
written and this is what I want to say and yada yada yada my mom kind of called me out she was
like you know you were very selective about the songs that you you know put on this playlist like
you have not only written 13 songs in the last year and a half like you've written for these 13
you've written 50 others that are never going to see the light of day and she was like you know you
write and I'd be curious to know if you've ever had a moment like this where she was like you write
a lot of songs that you think are bad that if other people listen to them they would say no
there's a lot of potential in there and so like it's it's walking this line of like I want to
listen to other people and I don't just want to be so set in my ways as an artist but then it's
towing that line of but I don't think this is the best thing that I've ever written and I don't think
that this really fits with what I'm trying to say and so it's that it's it's how do you give and take
where do you give and take as an artist especially when it comes to picking songs to record and put
on a cohesive project like have you ever been called out like that being in in a sense of like
hey there's more that you're not showing us why are you only being selective and showing us this
yeah i i was showing because i'm a waitress the that's talked about every episode the people that
i meet in said bar always interesting i was showing a producer like some of the songs that
i was working on and i was only showing him like basically either the masters or the ones that were
like basically young mixed a little bit like basically done and you're so good sorry right
No, Costco.
Love.
Right?
So I was showing him these songs, and he goes,
well, can you show me some that aren't as, like, done?
Yep.
And I was like, okay, sure.
And so I pulled up a few other ones that either didn't have, like,
a second verse or were demos, because I still have a few demos
that we haven't worked up yet.
and he was like show people these and I mean it makes more sense because obviously you can see
where you can go from there and it piques somebody else interest because they can see what they can add and yada yada yada yada but it was just an interesting tidbit to get from someone like you always have to show more cards than you than you think you should um that said like
i don't know i think we're always going to be so self-conscious of our own art
and there are songs that i still have in the catalog that like i showed jake and he's like
you've had this done for years and you haven't brought it up once and i was like well because i
you know it was it was old and he'll be like what i just he'll just kind of look at me and
gibby there's another guy that will come in and gibby engineer like i carly yeah like my friend
norah's cat gibby his nickname yeah he goes by gibby and he'll come in and look at stuff and he'll
be like yeah that sounds good man you guys need to stop working on it because we'll sit and I'll
put like harmonies or doubles or different things on there and we'll sit there and look at it and
kind of frankenstein some stuff because I didn't like how I hit that note and yada yada yada or
the drums are weird there or the echo or like we'll just nitpick and nitpick and nitpick and
then gabby will come in and be like okay you guys need to go get food or something because you've
sat there for at least two hours on the same section of the song yeah and now the rest of it
sounds like bear bear just it just doesn't sound good yeah so get up walk around take a hike for a
second and then come back to it yeah um yeah it's always interesting to like I know that you relate
to this too like your notes app on your phone please don't ever look in there it is a wasteland
the amount of things that I put in there just yesterday driving 10 hours back from DC um
and it's like you look in a woman's notes app not even just a songwriter it's just a woman's
notes app and like the amount of things that you will see that yeah is is uh you know presumpted
by that's not a word whatever it is a word now um that is um followed by so much context within
a woman's brain that like it makes so much sense like two words can make so much sense to us on the
notes app but then you know the normal person is going to look at it and be like huh what yes the
notes app continue with what you were about to say about the notes app no i mean the notes app is just
a wild place yeah and going in and where ideas go to die songwriter purgatory oh my god the lists
upon lists and lyric ideas that I have that just go in a graveyard. I literally,
literally have a folder that's a graveyard icon that I have put lyrics in and songs in and things
that I'm just like, this is gonna die. And then sometimes they will get resurrected. You go back
in that folder and you go, what could I do here? It's almost like roulette in a way. Like one of
the things I was looking for a song I wrote the other day for something I don't remember and I
was typing in a line that I remembered from it and then I found a different line from a different
note um from something not even remotely close to what I was looking for and I saw that and I was
like huh that's really interesting have you ever gotten your notes up kind of on that same line
you go in the search function and when you search something you see like five different songs that
pop up and you said that like the same line oh interesting like I don't know if that's really
happened to me well maybe a little bit not not like the same line but you could like a generic
trying to work a kink out of a of a line no like I I was trying to search something search something
and I searched let me go and like five different songs popped up
because the word before it would be like don't let me go.
And the next one was let me go now.
And the next one was like please let me go.
You know what I mean?
Like all these different things light up.
Definitely.
And I was like oh my gosh.
For sure.
But yeah, I think.
And one of the things that weirdly I was kind of thinking about the past couple of days is that,
and this is kind of related, but kind of not related at all.
Like, I think our writing as songwriters suffers when we forget to be inspired.
Yeah.
When we forget to be inspired by other music, particularly.
I don't know if you've had this problem.
And I don't know if like, I'm going to talk about this.
We might end up cutting this out because I've never really known how to talk about this.
um I have a really hard time listening to popular artists um who are around our age who have found a
lot of success um like in in a way I have this this rule in my head where I'm like oh I can only
listen to the new stuff that my like my lifelong favorite artists are putting out because that
counts yeah in a way like and I'm self-aware enough to know that sometimes it's hard to listen
to you know uber successful artists around our age um because of envy and you know jealousy for
lack of a better term like the olivia rodrigo song jealousy jealousy um and so i don't know
do you go through that where like you have a hard time listening i mean there are people that
it's harder for me to compare myself to like tate mccray or sabrina carpenter or
um jesse murph even like people that are our age that are at that level of success because i look
at that and i go that's labels that's all a different game yeah it's the people that i
went to college with or went to high school with there was like a actual connection with yes there
was an actual connection with that you look at and you go oh my gosh we have been in the same room
for classes for so many different things for all these things and they used their opportunities
way better than I did and it's not so much as envy of how far they've gone because I'm so
incredibly proud like there are so many people that I look at and I'm like oh my gosh you deserve
it you're so incredibly talented yeah and you did that yeah it's the shame of me not being able to
do the same thing that haunts me interesting so that's what I'm working towards yeah being able
to build those opportunities again and get to where people that I respect have gotten to yeah
but I don't know if it's the same thing with like Tate McRae or Sabrina Carpenter it's interesting
like I feel like I have that problem all across the board with the major label artists like the
Sabrinas and the Tates and then even the you know kind of the local artists in Nashville who are
bubbling up I feel like I have a little bit of both sort of the envy and then sort of the
the and I've talked about this in therapy like not even like the warranted shame because I don't
and for me I don't know if shame is the right word it's more of this like
and I don't know this is a whole other conversation we could get into but this idea of we all know
that the music industry is incredibly predatory and we listened to Hayley Williams did a great
podcast um with the with the podcast guys who like that's the New York Times music kind of pop
culture podcast we listened to that when we were growing up and it was incredible and you know she
was definitely talking about deconstructing Paramore's success like you deconstruct a religion
yeah which I thought was really interesting because I've had to do that with some of my
favorite artists like that I built so much of my personality and my career and my wants
off of that like it was a religion like I've kind of had to deconstruct a lot of that too but
there's almost this idea of like okay I know that I should not want to be taken advantage of by the
music industry but it's I have this idea of well am I not good enough to be exploited in the first
place which like that we might have to cut this whole thing because it's so like no i i get it
and i think that's so funny because i think everybody everybody has been there it's like
come on like i'm i'm not good enough to at least get an offer like at least you don't want to take
advantage of me 360 to you like at least try to give it to me at least give me the option of the
360 deal nobody's even giving me the option of being taken advantage of i don't even have that
option right now i think that's so funny yeah yeah i i've definitely hit that or it's like
i don't even have the option of being fucked yeah no exactly and like my brain cannot reconcile like
with the sabrinas and the tates like i logically i know that there is you know years of dance moms
and Disney Channel behind those that have fed into where they're at now
that like we just didn't have because we weren't on, you know,
beloved family-friendly TV shows, which like Dance Moms,
I don't know how family-friendly that was at times.
Or beloved.
Yeah, literally.
But yeah so my brain just cannot reconcile this idea of I still think that it was organic and like we me and the Sabrinas and the Tates have had the same trajectory not trajectory but we had a similar journey
So then why is it working for them?
And it's not working for me
when logically I know that there is labels,
years of fame behind them,
lots of marketing dollars
and a million other things behind the scenes
that we don't even know about.
But it's just that like,
yeah disconnect that I cannot reconcile in my brain for the life of me yeah and I think
that also comes from we had different schooling backgrounds as well yeah so where you see
somebody in your field and compare um I see somebody in my field compare in a different way
yeah and but we all struggle with the comparison beast just in different ways oh 100 like and the
thing is um like okay every girl is gonna understand this when you're in middle school
there's always that girl that is the sweetest nicest talented amazing person beautiful all
the people want her and you want to hate her so badly because you're like oh my gosh how can you
be good at everything and everybody loves you yeah and you're like oh but you can't can't because
they are just genuinely that person that's how the that's how i feel about a good amount of people
i've met in the music industry um where you're like oh my gosh i want to not like you yeah because
you're so good you're so talented you're very nice you're very all of these things but you kind of
have to be like okay well that's me being jealous that's my own insecurity that's my own insecurity
coming out there definitely um but that's all a part of networking and being a musician in
Nashville as well it's kind of like okay now you need to swallow your pride a tiny bit
and you need to go out there and meet the people yeah definitely the music industry is just a big
mind fuck a lot of the time yeah but on a different note one of the other things that we kind of wanted
to talk about which is sort of music industry related slash also world news related so um have
you seen the um no music for genocide initiative that's been happening i have not okay so i think
this is an incredible thing that has happened i saw it because my lord and savior hailey williams
posted about it on her Instagram story. It's an initiative of a couple of, I don't know who
exactly started it, if it's, you know, industry people behind it, or if it's just fans behind it,
or just people who have prior music industry ties. It's a coalition of people who are saying,
if you do not want your music to be played in Israel right now, we can give you the ability
to geo-block your music on Spotify.
So the oppressive regime in Israel
and the people in Israel cannot listen to
or digest their music in solidarity
with what's happening in Gaza and in Palestine right now,
which is incredible.
And in the past week or so,
it's really been, I think, catching on a lot more movement.
Like a week or so ago when I looked at it,
it was like Rina Sawayama, Hayley Williams was on it,
But now like people like Lord are, you know, saying you can't find my music on Spotify in Israel in support, in solidarity.
Like we're standing up for the injustices of what's happening to everybody in Palestine.
And I love this. I think this is incredible.
one thing that I'm thinking is that if artists are coming to the realization that in our way
the way that we're going to protect the people in Palestine is by saying you the the um the people
in Israel can't listen to our music if we're standing up for the people in Palestine I think
it's only a matter of time until we start to say as artists we need to stand up for ourselves and
I wonder if this is going to lead to a mass exodus of artists leaving Spotify entirely
saying, you can't not just find my music on Spotify in Israel.
You can't find my music on Spotify at all.
Because if we're realizing that we need to stand up for the people in Palestine, we also
at some point need to realize that we need to stand up for ourselves and say that Spotify
is taking advantage of our music.
And this initiative was not even started by Spotify.
It's an entirely third party group of people.
and I think you can geoblock on other streaming services as well probably Amazon probably Apple
Music and whatnot but I just think that it's an incredible initiative and I hope that it leads to
artists being like oh you know yeah you can't find my music on Spotify in Israel maybe you
shouldn't be able to find my music on Spotify at all because we need to stand up for ourselves
as well because we see the value in standing up for the people in Palestine and artists we've
talked about this so much on this podcast artists do a terrible job of not really I don't know if
that's fair to say I was about to say artists do a terrible job of standing up for themselves I
don't know if that's the case I think that the music industry does a terrible job of standing
up for artists and so I think if nobody else is going to stand up for artists we should stand up
for ourselves and I'm just curious to see if it's going to lead to you know people saying can't find
my music at all like we were talking a couple weeks ago king gizzard and the lizard wizard
left you can't find Joni Mitchell you can't find Garth Brooks on Spotify like I don't we might be
getting to a point where you know the little indie artists are getting to a point of like yeah no you
can't find my music on Spotify and now we have options of like where you can find our music like
Spotify and Wave Lake also shout out Sam Means who was on the tonight show this week with his
uh band the format they were on jimmy jimmy fallon the other night he's um i didn't see that so he's
in a band with nate roos um who was in fun um and i i knew that in the back of my mind and that was
something that i remember learning when i first got into the whole you know bitcoin you know
adjacent world and wave like a couple years ago and i i knew that he was in a band with nate roos
and they're having a whole revival moment right now and they just um played like their comeback
single on Jimmy Fallon the other night and it was really cool so shout out Sam Means that's so
exciting that's awesome that was a lot of yapping hey well I don't know if you've been paying
attention to the news recently yeah um I definitely was tracking the Sumud flotilla yeah um so
interesting to see how they stopped and collected people boats places and genuinely were trying to
do a humanitarian aid yeah mission and were stopped in international waters by the way yes
which is illegal yeah and greta tunberg being one of the people stopped my hero she's just so
incredible she is I mean she has gotten so much slack for so many different things that
I couldn't even tell you why no I think people see somebody like that who is genuinely like
I think with young people today who are in the public eye we have this connotation that so many
of them are doing it for fame or we're doing it for accolades or we're doing it to have money or
whatnot because like we're if we're if you're going into the entertainment industry like you
can assume that somebody is all we've we've got an agenda but with somebody like Greta Thunberg
she reminds me so much of one of my best friends Anya and I think I've I've talked to Anya about
Greta Thunberg she's just like driven by nothing other than justice justice and wanting the world
to be better than how she found it.
And she is an inspiration.
But yeah, no, continue.
No, I mean, I think it's interesting to see how she's been treated.
It's horrible to see how she's been treated in Israel.
Like reading the reports where she was tortured
and made to kiss the Israeli flag.
And I think her being such a voice for climate change,
Like the past few years, like we know her as being the very outspoken child.
Yeah, definitely.
And then she grew up and now she's being tortured in a country for delivering humanitarian aid.
Like it's crazy to see what our news cycles are also going to catch on.
Yeah, definitely.
And seeing the headlines like.
the most infuriating thing about it is seeing the headlines from certain
news agencies that are like swedish teen outcry for attention
like whoa are we so far gone as a society that we see somebody genuinely trying to do a good
thing for humanity and we think that they are asking for attention for themselves well and
And what doubled down for me is that when she got interviewed,
when she got back, when asked about her treatment,
she completely deflected.
She was like, I don't want it to be about me.
Yeah.
She completely deflected and was essentially like,
we cannot overlook what going on in Palestine and what happening on the Gaza Strip Yeah Right now Right now Like we cannot ignore that and we need to continue to try to get humanitarian aid there
as soon as possible.
Yeah.
And talking about me is not going to bring aid to them.
So, like, she completely took it off of herself, which, I mean, if you were doing that for
attention, you would milk that.
Oh, absolutely.
milked at being tortured are you kidding yeah i mean i think and as anyone else as that sounds
yeah if you're looking at that from strictly to get attention yeah you got it yeah that was your
time and place to get that and she completely deflected yeah i mean she is an inspiration and
she is i mean she's right like she wouldn't i think if she was sitting here with us she would
be like why are you talking about me right why aren't you talking about what's happening in in
Palestine but no I mean one of the other um I I'm fairly certain and I was traveling this week so I
didn't get to read up on it as much as I would want to but I'm fairly certain that there was
another flotilla that um didn't that got decimated and that I think um everyone or a bunch of people
on board were really injured if not killed in action but um I did see something really inspiring
and hopeful from that other flotilla um they were trying to get food into gaza and they got a giant
net of fish to people on the strip and so i i just saw something where you know that flotilla was
trying to feed the people in gaza and they might not have been able to do it themselves but they
did end up you know helping bring food and aid to gaza and i thought that was it's heartbreaking
and it's very inspiring at the same time i don't yeah i don't want to correct you because i don't
know if i have the right information but i think i don't think it was the fattila that got them the
nets i'm fairly certain it was just they have not allowed the palestinian people to fish yeah that
has been part of this whole whole thing yeah and by distracting the israeli forces and having so
many things going on outside than not being able to watch essentially the people of Palestine.
Yeah.
They were able to fish.
Yeah.
I think that's a, that is a better way to describe what happened for sure.
They were able to fish while Israeli forces were distracted.
Yeah.
And they were still able to feed the Palestinian people through other means, even if they weren't
able to get the aid.
Yeah.
Which, I mean, I don't really claim to be religious often, but there's a verse that I remember reading as a kid where I can't say a word for word, but essentially the thing of it is God will always provide, never doubt.
And even if it isn't in the way that you think it will be provided, it will always be provided.
Yeah.
and it just kind of and I saw somebody reference that verse when talking about it and I was like
oh like that just brought me back to my childhood religion because childhood religion to me is so
different than what religion has become yeah as somebody who didn't grow up religious I think
looking at it with an outsider's perspective childhood religion I think is what religion
should be it's the most basic and core principles and you know talking about like explaining those
principles the way that you would explain it to a five-year-old love your neighbor you know god's
gonna provide or i'm very much not religious so i don't know how to eloquently say that but no
you're doing a great job you're doing a great job i mean it's it's just the basics of god is love
and if what you are doing is within love you are doing what god wants you to be doing so i mean
that's just how i kind of live my life yeah or at least i try to girl i have had my times and i
have scarred many people and i apologize and we've had our convos but that's a different story that's
okay so all of that said like it's interesting i keep on saying interesting because it's a good
filler word for me to think about what I want to say um but I love that even though they were not
able to be given aid like the Palestinian people were still given the ability to feed each other
yeah and get some morsel of food yeah after all this time and go in the water think about it yeah
like that for me as somebody who grew up by the ocean I feel and again I'm not religious but
Like when I'm in the water, when I see the beach, that's when I feel whatever the greater power is for me.
And like I'm a very spiritual person.
I wouldn't I would never really categorize myself as religious because I have a big problem with a lot of religion.
And that's a whole other episode that we could talk about.
But and so I cannot imagine the the relief and the probably the bittersweet feelings that those Palestinians felt like being able to go in the water.
Yeah.
for the first time in a while like and it's crazy that we had to have like somebody like
Greta Thunberg go on this botella and other I mean there was a person from the English parliament
that was on the botella um and I don't know exactly what boats they were on
um but I'm trying to think of the stories that I've seen yeah um or like throwing phones off
about when Israeli forces got there yeah like it's just crazy to also see this in real time
yeah because we've heard history like well we've heard things in history about this yeah but never
has this happened never has it happened so blatantly in front of us and nobody and it's
gone unchecked yeah I it's interesting that came out so wordy but no that's what I mean I totally
know what you meant and it makes me think like there's that saying of history is written by the
winners or you know whatever the correct way to say that term is I wonder 50 years from now when
we're grandmas and you know most of modern history that we're living through has passed
I wonder what the history books that are going to be written about today will say
I don't know if I have an answer for that but I don't know and it makes me wonder about when
our grandparents told us oh it didn't happen like that what are you talking about yeah and then we
were learning about it and going what do you mean no it's in the book like well it didn't happen
like that yeah well you tell us how it happened right yeah well then I tell you we're gonna be
the one saying that's not how it happened if you know the history books are written by the quote
winners I don't know we don't know who the winners are today because I think everybody
every country is in a battle for its life right now it seems like and so yeah I mean only time
will tell about like who the winners are going to be and if you know we read these history books in
50 years and if we two young women who are living through this right now are we going to look at it
and say yeah that's a good representation of what happened or are we going to be the ones saying it
didn't happen like that and then it goes back I'm guessing is we'll be the ones saying it didn't
happen like that yeah and then i that goes back to you know how his how real history can can die
for lack of a better term because if we are the ones saying oh it didn't happen like that and then
we don't tell you know our metaphorical grandchildren how it did happen and then they don't pass it
along like i don't know this that's a big existential conversation i mean that's how a
lot of things have gotten lost yeah in america as well with so many different cultures yeah
has gotten whitewashed yeah and greater world history like think of all the things that we
don't know happened in in the world i mean sure we have a good idea but for the most part that's
probably not how it happened craziness absolutely well one thing that i was just thinking of
as you were saying God is love and you were talking about that and we were talking about
how I feel kind of like the greater all natural spirit when I'm in the water it reminded me of
one of my favorite artists she put out a record this year called all things light her name is Cam
and she has a song called turns out that I am God and I am not religious as I have said many times
in the span of these past couple of minutes,
but that is an incredible song,
and I feel like that kind of,
that song represents what we've been talking about right now.
It's this idea of to channel your inner creativity
and to forgive yourself and to take in the world around you.
I'm God, you're God, we're all God.
I think it's a beautiful song,
and I would encourage everybody to go and listen to it.
And read Abundance by Ezra Klein, that book I was talking about earlier.
That was crazy.
That was a good book.
Well, thank you so much for listening.
We will catch you next time.
I'm Ainsley.
I'm Katie.
And yeah.
Cheerio.
Thanks for listening in the new house.
Yeah.
We'll see you next time.