1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,100 David, welcome to the 21 and 21 show. 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:04,200 Thank you for having me. 3 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:04,980 Of course. 4 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:10,040 For those of you that don't know David Gumberg, he's a Bitcoin Core contributor at Localhost, 5 00:00:10,300 --> 00:00:12,900 which is a Bitcoin-friendly research center in the Bay Area. 6 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,420 David is relatively new to the Bitcoin FOSS community. 7 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,580 He completed the Chaincode Boss program in 2024, 8 00:00:20,220 --> 00:00:24,420 then received two consecutive OpenSats grants supporting his Bitcoin Core contributions 9 00:00:24,420 --> 00:00:27,860 before joining Localhost full-time in January 2025. 10 00:00:27,860 --> 00:00:36,940 five yeah it's been uh like uh my my life has changed a lot in uh in the past year and a half 11 00:00:36,940 --> 00:00:44,380 or so getting to work on bitcoin core um yeah yeah i totally get that life changes once you 12 00:00:44,380 --> 00:00:49,340 work full-time on bitcoin well yes well that leads me to my first question how did you get 13 00:00:49,340 --> 00:00:55,240 interested in bitcoin in the first place yeah i think the first time i heard about bitcoin was 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,380 in either freshman in high school or in middle school. 15 00:00:59,380 --> 00:01:00,920 And I was like on IRC. 16 00:01:01,140 --> 00:01:02,960 I think it was like Freenode at the time. 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,340 And I just like went into the list of channels 18 00:01:06,340 --> 00:01:09,020 and I saw which ones had the most people. 19 00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:12,400 And I saw this channel for Bitcoin 20 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,680 was like by far the most popular channel on Freenode. 21 00:01:16,900 --> 00:01:18,460 And I went on the channel 22 00:01:18,460 --> 00:01:21,000 and I'd never heard anything at all about Bitcoin. 23 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,260 And it's just like all these people 24 00:01:23,260 --> 00:01:26,820 talking about this thing that I didn't understand at all. 25 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,800 That was like the first exposure. 26 00:01:29,020 --> 00:01:31,960 And then I started doing some research. 27 00:01:32,220 --> 00:01:34,840 And then later on, I learned about 28 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,340 some of the Chaincode seminar programs 29 00:01:37,340 --> 00:01:39,400 and the Brink Fellowship. 30 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:43,420 And I started to think that maybe it would be possible 31 00:01:43,420 --> 00:01:46,700 for me to work full-time on open-source software, 32 00:01:46,700 --> 00:01:51,500 on this decentralized money, peer-to-peer thing, 33 00:01:51,500 --> 00:01:55,180 which is like all the boxes for me, 34 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,020 like decentralized, peer-to-peer, open source. 35 00:01:58,620 --> 00:02:00,640 And the fact that I might be able to do that, 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,420 that was like really, really exciting. 37 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,460 That's kind of like what drew me towards that. 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,020 That is definitely an interesting way to get into Bitcoin. 39 00:02:08,220 --> 00:02:09,500 I have never heard that answer. 40 00:02:09,640 --> 00:02:11,980 You were really thrown into like the deep end 41 00:02:11,980 --> 00:02:15,360 with like niche detailed conversations. 42 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:16,560 Yeah. 43 00:02:17,140 --> 00:02:17,880 Very cool. 44 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,220 How did you even learn about the Bitcoin boss program 45 00:02:21,220 --> 00:02:21,940 in the first place? 46 00:02:22,220 --> 00:02:24,520 So the boss program I learned about, 47 00:02:24,700 --> 00:02:25,400 I had done, 48 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:26,980 there's a program Chaincode used to do 49 00:02:26,980 --> 00:02:28,000 called the seminar program. 50 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,840 And I had done that. 51 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,320 And actually, like, 52 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:33,080 I had tried, 53 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,000 I'd like started and stopped multiple times 54 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,220 at like trying to work on Bitcoin Core. 55 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,660 So I'd like opened one or two PRs 56 00:02:41,660 --> 00:02:44,080 and I like attended some of the review clubs. 57 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,300 I tried a few things here and there, 58 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,060 but I never really could get traction. 59 00:02:49,300 --> 00:02:51,160 And at some point I kind of gave up 60 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,220 and I thought like maybe I'll do something. 61 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,100 I started trying to work on like other paths. 62 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,720 And then I was like, I just like, 63 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,820 and then one day I just like saw just by accident. 64 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:04,500 I don't even have like a Twitter account. 65 00:03:04,580 --> 00:03:06,740 I just like saw that they'd retweeted 66 00:03:06,740 --> 00:03:07,900 this thing about the boss program. 67 00:03:08,180 --> 00:03:10,460 And I really, really enjoyed the chain code seminar. 68 00:03:10,740 --> 00:03:13,080 So I just signed up for it based on that. 69 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:15,900 And yeah, that was, that was, 70 00:03:15,980 --> 00:03:17,360 that was how I heard about it was like, 71 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,180 it was really, really just like pure chance. 72 00:03:19,180 --> 00:03:20,920 Like I don't even have a Twitter. 73 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:23,640 I just was like, I wonder if this person has tweeted recently. 74 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,780 I looked at their Twitter, they'd retweeted it, 75 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:27,760 and I went and I signed up immediately. 76 00:03:28,020 --> 00:03:29,400 It was like, I knew I wanted to do it. 77 00:03:29,860 --> 00:03:30,180 So cool. 78 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:33,160 Well, can you maybe tell our listeners a little bit more 79 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:34,620 about the Chaincode Boss program? 80 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:35,400 Yeah. 81 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,520 So the Chaincode Boss program is kind of a mixture 82 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,860 of an educational program. 83 00:03:42,660 --> 00:03:46,040 You get to learn more about working on Bitcoin open source software. 84 00:03:46,040 --> 00:04:04,700 There are a lot of resources that are already publicly available, but that the program guides you towards some of the best resources that are available for jumping into the deep end of working on Bitcoin open source software. 85 00:04:04,700 --> 00:04:14,500 And the other aspect of the program is really is like a set of challenges that participants engage in. 86 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:24,140 And kind of the point of the challenges is to like demonstrate like you're learning as you've gone through the program. 87 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:32,940 And then for people that perform really well in the challenges that are in the kind of beginning section of the program, 88 00:04:32,940 --> 00:04:35,080 then the next phase of the program 89 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,960 you kind of get resources 90 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,920 from people that have experience 91 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:40,940 working either in my case 92 00:04:40,940 --> 00:04:42,660 it was Bitcoin Core but like really 93 00:04:42,660 --> 00:04:45,020 like the field is wide open in terms 94 00:04:45,020 --> 00:04:46,600 of like open source software 95 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,020 related to Bitcoin 96 00:04:48,020 --> 00:04:50,740 I know some people went on to work on 97 00:04:50,740 --> 00:04:52,660 BDK some people 98 00:04:52,660 --> 00:04:54,840 from my cohort went on to work 99 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:56,920 on Warnet which is 100 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,020 like this cool Bitcoin network 101 00:04:59,020 --> 00:05:01,020 tool but yeah 102 00:05:01,020 --> 00:05:02,920 at that point you kind of like 103 00:05:02,940 --> 00:05:11,800 And Chaincode kind of gives you resources and connects you with people that like kind of help you on the next step of the journey from like, I know a lot. 104 00:05:12,060 --> 00:05:16,420 I feel like I can, I feel like I can do this, but I kind of don't know how to apply myself. 105 00:05:17,460 --> 00:05:20,820 For me, that was what I needed was like, I felt like I had the skills. 106 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:29,980 I still had a lot that I needed to learn, but it kind of like helped, helped me find a direction to, to, to apply that in. 107 00:05:29,980 --> 00:05:31,220 And it's all virtual. 108 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:31,740 Yeah. 109 00:05:31,740 --> 00:05:38,600 Yeah, it's all run through a Discord server where you get weekly challenges. 110 00:05:39,260 --> 00:05:53,011 The other cool part of the program is the community part of it You get to meet the other people that are interested in working on Bitcoin open source stuff And everyone is super friendly and like shares helpful information about how to get through challenges 111 00:05:53,011 --> 00:05:54,831 Like in the year that I participated in 112 00:05:54,831 --> 00:05:56,531 and last year I helped mentor 113 00:05:56,531 --> 00:05:57,691 some of the existing people. 114 00:05:57,971 --> 00:06:00,371 The people that show up are so nice 115 00:06:00,371 --> 00:06:01,071 and so helpful. 116 00:06:01,071 --> 00:06:03,611 And like for that month or two 117 00:06:03,611 --> 00:06:04,891 or for the three months, 118 00:06:04,951 --> 00:06:06,031 kind of like a nice little community. 119 00:06:06,411 --> 00:06:06,771 Yeah. 120 00:06:07,191 --> 00:06:08,771 And then I guess like 121 00:06:08,771 --> 00:06:11,531 what was your coding experience prior 122 00:06:11,531 --> 00:06:17,211 and what after going through it realistically how much like you know software engineering experience 123 00:06:17,211 --> 00:06:23,871 do you think that someone has to have it really depends so in my case um it was really a wide 124 00:06:23,871 --> 00:06:31,831 spectrum so um there was all kinds of people in the program and honestly i don't think that um 125 00:06:31,831 --> 00:06:37,811 any normal metrics you could have used to like guess like who's going to succeed i they at least 126 00:06:37,811 --> 00:06:39,691 from my perspective wouldn't have worked. 127 00:06:40,431 --> 00:06:42,731 I don't have a computer science degree. 128 00:06:42,991 --> 00:06:43,991 I've never worked. 129 00:06:44,171 --> 00:06:47,071 I've never really worked professionally full-time 130 00:06:47,071 --> 00:06:49,111 developing software of any kind. 131 00:06:49,271 --> 00:06:51,491 So for me, I was just like a hobbyist 132 00:06:51,491 --> 00:06:52,911 from like being a teenager, 133 00:06:53,251 --> 00:06:56,111 just like tinkering with open source software, 134 00:06:56,591 --> 00:06:58,371 teaching myself a little bit as I went. 135 00:06:58,611 --> 00:07:00,911 I knew some C, I knew some Python. 136 00:07:01,151 --> 00:07:03,691 I kind of had just like a hodgepodge 137 00:07:03,691 --> 00:07:04,991 of different little skills, 138 00:07:04,991 --> 00:07:07,551 but none that I had ever really like 139 00:07:07,811 --> 00:07:12,011 applied in a kind of concentrated, full-time way. 140 00:07:13,591 --> 00:07:17,031 So, I mean, that's kind of where I started from. 141 00:07:17,151 --> 00:07:19,311 And then there was also lots of people in the program that had success 142 00:07:19,311 --> 00:07:22,111 that were existing software engineers that just, like, 143 00:07:22,591 --> 00:07:24,811 weren't that interested in the work that they were doing 144 00:07:24,811 --> 00:07:26,311 and wanted to work on open source stuff 145 00:07:26,311 --> 00:07:29,671 or wanted more self-guided work. 146 00:07:30,771 --> 00:07:33,751 Yeah, so I think it's really a wide array of backgrounds. 147 00:07:33,911 --> 00:07:36,231 There's students, there's people like me that I was, 148 00:07:36,231 --> 00:07:38,191 like an algebra teacher when I 149 00:07:38,191 --> 00:07:40,331 when I did the program and I was actually like 150 00:07:40,331 --> 00:07:42,491 I was working full time as 151 00:07:42,491 --> 00:07:43,931 like teaching algebra 152 00:07:43,931 --> 00:07:46,591 like sneaking into 153 00:07:46,591 --> 00:07:48,191 conference rooms and like taking 154 00:07:48,191 --> 00:07:50,531 like taking calls and working on the 155 00:07:50,531 --> 00:07:52,391 assignments so yeah 156 00:07:52,391 --> 00:07:54,251 but like that's not just like 157 00:07:54,251 --> 00:07:56,411 really it's like 158 00:07:56,411 --> 00:07:58,491 I just encourage anyone that 159 00:07:58,491 --> 00:08:00,571 like thinks that they want to 160 00:08:00,571 --> 00:08:02,591 do it to try and 161 00:08:02,591 --> 00:08:04,411 maybe it's not the right time 162 00:08:04,411 --> 00:08:06,131 maybe there's more skills you need but 163 00:08:06,231 --> 00:08:11,431 I like just try like you you you don't lose anything by just trying and seeing. 164 00:08:12,071 --> 00:08:12,591 Yeah. 165 00:08:13,251 --> 00:08:13,391 Yeah. 166 00:08:13,771 --> 00:08:14,551 Algebra, man. 167 00:08:14,551 --> 00:08:18,131 I haven't done algebra in so long. 168 00:08:19,291 --> 00:08:20,591 Do you miss algebra? 169 00:08:22,091 --> 00:08:24,871 I still try to get in some practice on the weekends. 170 00:08:25,251 --> 00:08:26,931 I have a little notebook. 171 00:08:27,351 --> 00:08:27,731 I'll be honest. 172 00:08:27,811 --> 00:08:31,331 I loved I loved I loved algebra and I love teaching algebra. 173 00:08:31,791 --> 00:08:32,951 I also love what I do now. 174 00:08:32,951 --> 00:08:36,831 But yeah, the kids, they didn't, they didn't like algebra as much as I did. 175 00:08:36,971 --> 00:08:37,891 Yeah, that's funny. 176 00:08:38,351 --> 00:08:47,011 So you could do this program during like, you can have a full-time job too, or you just have to, you know, maybe you're working extra hard. 177 00:08:47,591 --> 00:08:51,831 It depends on who you are and exactly what your situation is. 178 00:08:52,851 --> 00:09:00,271 I, what, I mean, I don't, like what I did was like, it was really hard. 179 00:09:00,531 --> 00:09:01,991 Like it was really hard. 180 00:09:01,991 --> 00:09:10,751 I was, I was, I was what I, for me, because just because of my unique situation, which was that I had a big skill gap, I think. 181 00:09:11,391 --> 00:09:13,011 I had a lot to learn. 182 00:09:13,931 --> 00:09:18,291 And I was like trying to work a job and I was trying to do the program. 183 00:09:18,291 --> 00:09:21,391 It was like, it was like a lot of hours because I wasn't just doing the challenges. 184 00:09:21,471 --> 00:09:25,731 I was catching up on things that I didn't know how to do while I was going. 185 00:09:26,171 --> 00:09:30,891 So I just like, it's, it's hard to say, like, for me, I made it work. 186 00:09:30,891 --> 00:09:32,931 there are other people that made it work 187 00:09:32,931 --> 00:09:35,151 but there were definitely people in the program 188 00:09:35,151 --> 00:09:36,991 like smart capable people 189 00:09:36,991 --> 00:09:39,111 who just couldn't balance 190 00:09:39,111 --> 00:09:40,711 taking on the program 191 00:09:40,711 --> 00:09:42,571 while also working full time somewhere else 192 00:09:42,571 --> 00:09:45,291 but it just 193 00:09:45,291 --> 00:09:47,231 like it's one of those things 194 00:09:47,231 --> 00:09:49,111 you just have to try and see if it 195 00:09:49,111 --> 00:09:50,331 see if it works for you 196 00:09:50,331 --> 00:09:52,051 but in my case yeah I was able to 197 00:09:52,051 --> 00:09:54,151 and there was other examples of people that were 198 00:09:54,151 --> 00:09:55,811 working and also doing the program 199 00:09:55,811 --> 00:09:58,251 that's awesome well good for you 200 00:09:58,251 --> 00:10:00,071 for balancing all that 201 00:10:00,071 --> 00:10:06,851 that's a lot um okay one last question about boss program what was like your biggest surprise 202 00:10:06,851 --> 00:10:13,611 from doing it well at least unexpected most unexpected thing you either learned or someone 203 00:10:13,611 --> 00:10:21,551 you met honestly i would like not to keep focusing i feel like i keep focusing on myself 204 00:10:21,551 --> 00:10:27,551 but but i guess for me the like the the most unexpected part i guess was that i was that i 205 00:10:27,551 --> 00:10:32,651 was able to do it engineers or people interested in software tend to have kind of like imposter 206 00:10:32,651 --> 00:10:37,351 syndrome type like array of things and not having a computer science degree not having work 207 00:10:37,351 --> 00:10:43,991 professionally i had kind of like some preconceived notions of like what how far like what i could do 208 00:10:43,991 --> 00:10:51,331 or how capable i was so like the fact that i was able to do it at all was like like i i honestly 209 00:10:51,331 --> 00:10:54,571 couldn't i couldn't believe that i was like succeeding at the challenges when i was doing 210 00:10:54,571 --> 00:10:59,651 them that like i was just like putting in time learning things applying it and then like i would 211 00:10:59,651 --> 00:11:04,331 succeed in the challenges and i was just like what like i don't know that was that was part of it but 212 00:11:04,331 --> 00:11:10,871 the other thing that i would say is like how nice and available so many of the people that are 213 00:11:10,871 --> 00:11:17,491 working on like bitcoin open source stuff are like so many people that like i imagined are like 214 00:11:17,491 --> 00:11:40,501 I don know like like closed off or impossible to reach or busy 24 seven like people that have built like so much stuff and continue to build so many amazing things So many of them were and are so ready and willing to give up time to like talk to people like me at the time that didn know very much and answer questions and like be super helpful and like i 215 00:11:40,501 --> 00:11:45,601 could field ideas to them and they would give me feedback and that was just like unbelievable i 216 00:11:45,601 --> 00:11:51,401 couldn't i still don't know how some of those people how they can do so much and then also be 217 00:11:51,401 --> 00:11:56,261 so open and and and available and helpful but yeah that's the other part of it it's just 218 00:11:56,261 --> 00:11:58,661 there's this perception from like 219 00:11:58,661 --> 00:12:00,541 GitHub and IRC and stuff that 220 00:12:00,541 --> 00:12:03,001 everyone is like I don't know like in silos 221 00:12:03,001 --> 00:12:04,941 or something like that but once you 222 00:12:04,941 --> 00:12:06,881 like actually try to reach out 223 00:12:06,881 --> 00:12:08,541 like 224 00:12:08,541 --> 00:12:10,801 everyone is super generous with their time 225 00:12:10,801 --> 00:12:12,821 and with their knowledge and stuff like that and 226 00:12:12,821 --> 00:12:14,861 really want to help people 227 00:12:14,861 --> 00:12:16,821 like and I 228 00:12:16,821 --> 00:12:18,901 include myself in this like we really really 229 00:12:18,901 --> 00:12:20,981 want to help bring 230 00:12:20,981 --> 00:12:22,921 up people to be able to work on this because 231 00:12:22,921 --> 00:12:24,601 we need more people 232 00:12:24,601 --> 00:12:26,041 yeah 233 00:12:26,041 --> 00:12:53,941 Totally. Well, I'm so glad that you had such a positive experience. And it's super exciting that Chaincode's doing it again. And so applications close on December 31st. So time for people to get some focus time in before the new year and they can kick off their new year with something super fun and cool and potentially lead to a new career like you. So after that, you moved on and did OpenSats grants. 234 00:12:53,941 --> 00:13:06,141 Yeah, so after I completed the BOSS program, I went on to get a grant from OpenSats for about six months or so. 235 00:13:06,141 --> 00:13:14,141 I had two short-term grants from them, and I worked on some stuff related to IBD in Bitcoin Core. 236 00:13:15,561 --> 00:13:23,781 And then after that, I got hired by local host research, and I came out here to the Bay Area, where I'm now working full-time on Bitcoin Core. 237 00:13:23,941 --> 00:13:28,381 on stuff related to compact block relay. 238 00:13:29,381 --> 00:13:33,721 So how does it feel now to work on Bitcoin full-time? 239 00:13:33,941 --> 00:13:36,701 Yeah, it's crazy. 240 00:13:37,061 --> 00:13:41,201 Like, it's crazy because it's crazy for so many reasons. 241 00:13:41,341 --> 00:13:43,701 I can't believe, honestly, I can't believe, 242 00:13:43,701 --> 00:13:48,481 like, my colleagues are, like, so smart, so talented. 243 00:13:48,761 --> 00:13:52,201 Like, I still, like, kind of pinch myself. 244 00:13:52,201 --> 00:13:56,041 I can't believe that I'm like, like working on this stuff. 245 00:13:56,141 --> 00:14:02,781 And I, and I, and I get to ask like, you know, people that know like so, so much like world 246 00:14:02,781 --> 00:14:03,501 class experts. 247 00:14:03,501 --> 00:14:07,141 And I get to like talk to them and ask them questions and work on stuff with them. 248 00:14:07,521 --> 00:14:12,721 And the problems that we work on are like so interesting. 249 00:14:12,721 --> 00:14:15,941 And like, there's so, so many different kinds of problems. 250 00:14:15,941 --> 00:14:21,341 One of the really, really cool things about, about Bitcoin core is like, it's huge. 251 00:14:21,341 --> 00:14:24,381 and there are so, so many domains 252 00:14:24,381 --> 00:14:26,181 that can be improved. 253 00:14:26,601 --> 00:14:28,121 And like, there's just like 254 00:14:28,121 --> 00:14:30,441 so many rabbit holes to dive down 255 00:14:30,441 --> 00:14:32,201 and things to learn about 256 00:14:32,201 --> 00:14:36,181 and like new problems to try to take on. 257 00:14:36,341 --> 00:14:38,521 So that's my favorite part is that like, 258 00:14:38,921 --> 00:14:41,421 I get to work on like interesting problems 259 00:14:41,421 --> 00:14:44,501 all the time that I do it in an environment 260 00:14:44,501 --> 00:14:46,681 that isn't, that is like, you know, 261 00:14:46,741 --> 00:14:48,381 collaborative and kind of feels like research. 262 00:14:48,381 --> 00:14:51,221 Like we're all focused on like, 263 00:14:51,341 --> 00:14:58,781 yeah, making the best open source Bitcoin implementation that we possibly can. 264 00:14:58,781 --> 00:15:03,521 And that's just like, yeah, it's just like, it's cool. 265 00:15:03,881 --> 00:15:03,981 Yeah. 266 00:15:04,121 --> 00:15:05,921 Yeah, there's so many rabbit holes in Bitcoin. 267 00:15:06,421 --> 00:15:09,981 So, and maybe in layman's terms, as much as possible, 268 00:15:10,281 --> 00:15:14,801 what are you focused on right now and why is it important to Bitcoin? 269 00:15:15,541 --> 00:15:20,841 So right now I am working on an implementation of, 270 00:15:20,841 --> 00:15:22,361 I have to give a shout out to B10C, 271 00:15:22,481 --> 00:15:25,161 whose idea I'm working on implementing 272 00:15:25,161 --> 00:15:27,181 and I'm researching. 273 00:15:27,901 --> 00:15:31,701 What I'm working on is something called Compact Block Relay. 274 00:15:32,161 --> 00:15:35,121 So we've got this protocol in Bitcoin Core 275 00:15:35,121 --> 00:15:37,421 that was designed many years ago 276 00:15:37,421 --> 00:15:39,581 that lets us do block announcements 277 00:15:39,581 --> 00:15:42,301 in a way that's like really, really small 278 00:15:42,301 --> 00:15:44,961 and basically takes advantage of the fact that 279 00:15:44,961 --> 00:15:48,001 we kind of already know that... 280 00:15:48,001 --> 00:15:48,921 Oh, you said layman's terms. 281 00:15:49,241 --> 00:15:49,641 All right. 282 00:15:49,821 --> 00:15:50,381 That's okay. 283 00:15:50,381 --> 00:15:52,301 I'll try to couch myself. 284 00:15:52,581 --> 00:15:55,461 But yeah, we kind of take advantage of the fact that 285 00:15:55,461 --> 00:15:57,561 instead of having to send the full block, 286 00:15:58,001 --> 00:16:01,181 we know that lots of nodes already have most of the data 287 00:16:01,181 --> 00:16:02,841 that's going to be in the next block. 288 00:16:02,961 --> 00:16:05,781 They've already heard about those transactions from the mempool. 289 00:16:07,341 --> 00:16:11,041 And so what I'm working on was something that was kind of originally left 290 00:16:11,041 --> 00:16:14,181 as a blank piece in that original proposal, 291 00:16:14,181 --> 00:16:20,601 which was handling the bits of information that nodes don't have. 292 00:16:21,281 --> 00:16:25,241 Basically, it's like predicting what our peers won't have 293 00:16:25,241 --> 00:16:28,641 and sending it to them ahead of time. 294 00:16:29,621 --> 00:16:31,401 There's a write-up on Delving. 295 00:16:31,761 --> 00:16:33,441 There's a thread on Delving called 296 00:16:33,441 --> 00:16:35,921 Stats on Compact Block Reconstructions. 297 00:16:35,981 --> 00:16:38,661 And if you scroll down there, there's a full detailed write-up, 298 00:16:38,661 --> 00:16:41,681 a lot of information from B10C, 299 00:16:41,681 --> 00:16:44,521 and a lot of writing that I've done about the topic. 300 00:16:45,061 --> 00:16:48,621 And the impact that it has is basically on block propagation times. 301 00:16:48,901 --> 00:16:52,181 So we want blocks to propagate across the network 302 00:16:52,181 --> 00:16:54,661 as quickly as possible. 303 00:16:55,141 --> 00:16:57,421 Like, you know, hopefully blocks are traveling, 304 00:16:57,621 --> 00:17:00,481 relatively speaking, like at the speed of light around the network. 305 00:17:01,061 --> 00:17:06,701 This is super, super important for protecting smaller miners. 306 00:17:07,501 --> 00:17:11,281 For reasons that Antoine has written about on delving, 307 00:17:11,681 --> 00:17:26,752 Also there a post that Antoine made um uh going into some of the math behind this slow block propagation disproportionately harms small miners makes them less competitive than larger miners So one of the centralizing forces 308 00:17:26,752 --> 00:17:28,092 that we want to mitigate 309 00:17:28,092 --> 00:17:28,972 as much as possible 310 00:17:28,972 --> 00:17:31,512 is latency in block propagation 311 00:17:31,512 --> 00:17:35,172 to make mining as fairer as possible. 312 00:17:35,992 --> 00:17:38,012 We want it to be the case 313 00:17:38,012 --> 00:17:38,972 that something like 314 00:17:38,972 --> 00:17:43,132 your expected reward 315 00:17:43,132 --> 00:17:45,672 is equal to your proportion of the hash rate 316 00:17:45,672 --> 00:17:46,232 or something like that, 317 00:17:46,252 --> 00:17:47,332 that those are aligned, 318 00:17:47,412 --> 00:17:48,532 that there aren't other factors 319 00:17:48,532 --> 00:17:51,492 that are making it worse for you 320 00:17:51,492 --> 00:17:52,452 if you're a small miner. 321 00:17:53,212 --> 00:17:54,992 So yeah, that's kind of the topic 322 00:17:54,992 --> 00:17:55,732 that I'm focused on. 323 00:17:55,992 --> 00:17:56,572 That's very cool. 324 00:17:56,772 --> 00:17:59,792 I bet you about a year ago 325 00:17:59,792 --> 00:18:00,372 or whatever, 326 00:18:00,632 --> 00:18:02,392 you're in change when you're an algebra teacher, 327 00:18:02,732 --> 00:18:04,392 you didn't think you'd be speaking. 328 00:18:06,392 --> 00:18:06,832 No. 329 00:18:07,392 --> 00:18:08,492 Okay, I'm so curious. 330 00:18:09,132 --> 00:18:10,252 Just a few more questions. 331 00:18:10,972 --> 00:18:13,092 I feel like people who are like Bitcoin 332 00:18:13,092 --> 00:18:18,712 core developers work on something that's like so niche and like never something i would even know 333 00:18:18,712 --> 00:18:24,492 is something how do you even like find out these problems and like what makes you like interested 334 00:18:24,492 --> 00:18:34,032 to like solve these like specific things i mean i think a like a lot of us are kind of susceptible 335 00:18:34,032 --> 00:18:40,232 like there are some personality traits that are somewhat common i think one of the personality 336 00:18:40,232 --> 00:18:42,292 traits that Bitcoin core developers I've 337 00:18:42,292 --> 00:18:44,252 noticed have and a lot of open source developers have is 338 00:18:44,252 --> 00:18:46,252 kind of susceptibility to being 339 00:18:46,252 --> 00:18:47,892 like nerd snipe so like 340 00:18:47,892 --> 00:18:50,172 we're just like at least in my case like 341 00:18:50,172 --> 00:18:51,872 I'm so vulnerable to like 342 00:18:51,872 --> 00:18:54,272 overhearing and someone 343 00:18:54,272 --> 00:18:55,632 talking about a problem 344 00:18:55,632 --> 00:18:58,052 and then like I can't help myself 345 00:18:58,052 --> 00:18:59,892 but like taking out my 346 00:18:59,892 --> 00:19:02,292 taking out my notebook like starting to write 347 00:19:02,292 --> 00:19:03,952 things down and thinking like oh there 348 00:19:03,952 --> 00:19:06,412 should be a way to solve this or something like that 349 00:19:06,412 --> 00:19:08,552 and then just like being 350 00:19:08,552 --> 00:19:09,892 kind of like 351 00:19:09,892 --> 00:19:14,392 stubborn about like I think that there should be a way to solve this we can do better 352 00:19:14,392 --> 00:19:22,172 we can do whatever so like um I think the the like now I'm at the point where like I'm kind 353 00:19:22,172 --> 00:19:28,572 of saturated on I have like I have like enough problems that are that are that I can kind of 354 00:19:28,572 --> 00:19:33,512 fill the rest of my time of enough interesting problems in my queue but the main way I guess I 355 00:19:33,512 --> 00:19:40,812 find out about things that are like interesting are like delving um there's so much interesting 356 00:19:40,812 --> 00:19:46,992 discussion on delving and people put in so much time to talk uh to write in detail about like 357 00:19:46,992 --> 00:19:54,252 problems solutions etc it's a really really cool like um a space i love delving bitcoin 358 00:19:54,252 --> 00:19:58,992 and um following on the github repo that requires a little more detailed work but 359 00:19:58,992 --> 00:20:01,172 just from paying attention to the repo, 360 00:20:01,432 --> 00:20:02,792 what issues users are opening, 361 00:20:03,372 --> 00:20:05,352 what issues Bitcoin core contributors are opening, 362 00:20:05,892 --> 00:20:07,432 what people are talking about in pull requests. 363 00:20:07,432 --> 00:20:09,552 That takes a little bit longer to get tapped into, 364 00:20:10,312 --> 00:20:15,712 a little bit longer to kind of get tuned into 365 00:20:15,712 --> 00:20:18,272 what the kind of repo is thinking about. 366 00:20:18,832 --> 00:20:20,192 But once you're there, 367 00:20:20,812 --> 00:20:23,692 and if you pay attention to the issues and stuff like that, 368 00:20:23,992 --> 00:20:26,252 a lot of these problems just kind of emerge, 369 00:20:26,392 --> 00:20:27,452 like consistent themes, 370 00:20:27,452 --> 00:20:30,872 like, hmm, like this is really, something is really wrong with this. 371 00:20:30,872 --> 00:20:36,012 And like this and like, oh, like, or like this thing really doesn't get a lot of love. 372 00:20:36,192 --> 00:20:41,992 You know, that that's like, I mean, that was kind of a part of the motivation for me initially 373 00:20:41,992 --> 00:20:47,132 to work on IBD was like, that's as like a 13, 14 year old. 374 00:20:47,212 --> 00:20:50,792 That was like my first experience with Bitcoin was like, okay, like, what is this? 375 00:20:50,852 --> 00:20:55,032 I download the client and then there's this thing that happens, this like IBD thing. 376 00:20:55,032 --> 00:21:01,952 And like, I can't use the Bitcoin for like some 24 hours or something like that. 377 00:21:01,972 --> 00:21:05,472 And I was like wanting this to be faster or something like that. 378 00:21:05,552 --> 00:21:11,312 And when, after doing the boss challenge, I just was like looking around and I saw that 379 00:21:11,312 --> 00:21:13,852 the topic really wasn't getting that much attention. 380 00:21:14,412 --> 00:21:20,112 Now there's a lot of attention on that problem and there's great work from Lawrence and Andrew. 381 00:21:20,392 --> 00:21:22,512 They've been doing a lot of great work to improve IBD. 382 00:21:22,512 --> 00:21:25,352 we've had a lot of great improvements in the recent releases 383 00:21:25,352 --> 00:21:27,072 we're going to have some really cool improvements 384 00:21:27,072 --> 00:21:29,572 the next few releases but yeah it was like 385 00:21:29,572 --> 00:21:31,092 finding stuff that's like 386 00:21:31,092 --> 00:21:33,172 not that's like super critical 387 00:21:33,172 --> 00:21:35,112 super important for a lot of different reasons 388 00:21:35,112 --> 00:21:36,952 IBD is super important 389 00:21:36,952 --> 00:21:39,212 and like 390 00:21:39,212 --> 00:21:41,212 isn't getting enough attention isn't getting enough 391 00:21:41,212 --> 00:21:43,192 love that's like one metric also 392 00:21:43,192 --> 00:21:44,072 that you can use 393 00:21:44,072 --> 00:21:47,232 so what I'm hearing is people 394 00:21:47,232 --> 00:21:48,932 should get into Bitcoin 395 00:21:48,932 --> 00:21:51,072 and sign up for the boss challenge if they 396 00:21:51,072 --> 00:21:52,372 like being nerd sniped 397 00:21:52,512 --> 00:22:00,412 They like going down the rabbit hole of cool, interesting things, solving unique problems, and interacting with really nice, interesting, smart people. 398 00:22:00,592 --> 00:22:00,852 Yes. 399 00:22:01,092 --> 00:22:02,172 That's like a no-brainer. 400 00:22:02,352 --> 00:22:02,632 Yes. 401 00:22:02,772 --> 00:22:03,312 Okay, cool. 402 00:22:03,792 --> 00:22:05,852 Well, we're at time. 403 00:22:06,292 --> 00:22:10,012 If people want to follow your work, where should they go? 404 00:22:12,252 --> 00:22:14,012 My work is all on GitHub. 405 00:22:14,372 --> 00:22:18,512 My username is David Gumberg, G-U-M-B-E-R-G. 406 00:22:19,292 --> 00:22:22,392 I've also done some writing on Delving under the same name. 407 00:22:22,512 --> 00:22:25,352 yeah that's where 408 00:22:25,352 --> 00:22:25,712 I 409 00:22:25,712 --> 00:22:28,572 that's where all my work happens is on 410 00:22:28,572 --> 00:22:30,352 GitHub and I also 411 00:22:30,352 --> 00:22:31,892 strongly encourage people that are interested 412 00:22:31,892 --> 00:22:34,452 in applying for the BOSS program to 413 00:22:34,452 --> 00:22:36,532 do so just like try it 414 00:22:36,532 --> 00:22:38,512 like please please if you're 415 00:22:38,512 --> 00:22:40,292 thinking about it just try it 416 00:22:40,292 --> 00:22:42,592 and I think the URL for that 417 00:22:42,592 --> 00:22:44,612 is bosschallenge.xyz 418 00:22:44,612 --> 00:22:46,512 bosschallenge.xyz 419 00:22:47,292 --> 00:22:48,652 It is amazing 420 00:22:48,652 --> 00:22:50,712 well thank you so much for coming 421 00:22:50,712 --> 00:22:51,852 on the show today 422 00:22:51,852 --> 00:22:53,032 and for coming back 423 00:22:53,032 --> 00:22:53,852 to Presidio Bitcoin 424 00:22:53,852 --> 00:22:55,772 and hopefully we'll get 425 00:22:55,772 --> 00:22:56,992 some new cool people 426 00:22:56,992 --> 00:22:58,752 working in Bitcoin 427 00:22:58,752 --> 00:22:59,532 open source with you. 428 00:22:59,712 --> 00:22:59,952 Yes. 429 00:23:00,152 --> 00:23:00,952 Yeah, that would be awesome. 430 00:23:01,112 --> 00:23:01,612 Thank you so much 431 00:23:01,612 --> 00:23:02,172 for having me 432 00:23:02,172 --> 00:23:02,852 and letting me talk 433 00:23:02,852 --> 00:23:03,692 about the BOSS program. 434 00:23:03,872 --> 00:23:04,252 Of course. 435 00:23:04,432 --> 00:23:04,612 Yeah. 436 00:23:04,792 --> 00:23:05,012 Bye. 437 00:23:05,272 --> 00:23:05,412 Bye.