1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,320
Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast

2
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,020
of the Free Cities Foundation.

3
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:37,080
Hello and welcome to this episode number 172 of the Free Cities podcast. Yes, hello indeed.

4
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:44,840
You find me having a rather challenging day today, let's say. I don't know whether you remember some

5
00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:51,980
months ago I had a catastrophic hard drive failure that took many days to fix. Well,

6
00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:59,540
early this morning, and this is very ironic, the disc that I copied everything onto from that

7
00:00:59,540 --> 00:01:07,420
previous catastrophic hard drive yeah that's right that failed um i think i have a hardware

8
00:01:07,420 --> 00:01:14,920
attack vector and i suspect it's one of my usb hubs anyway thanks to the amazing disc drill

9
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:21,160
highly recommend that product by the way and chat gpt of course they're both sorting me out as we

10
00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:28,000
speak however i have wasted quite a lot of time already this morning but fortunately i know the

11
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:35,360
drill now i've done it before and no that pun was not intended so let's get on with it with that lack

12
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:42,960
of intended pun fresh in your mind this episode is of course brought to you by the wonderful

13
00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:49,600
veritas villages our lead sponsor who are building off-grid freedom-oriented communities in latin

14
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:58,120
America. Highly advise you to take a look at their new 340 acre acquisition in the country of Costa

15
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:04,600
Rica, where they're planning 400 residences. It's their biggest village to date. Click on the link

16
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:09,380
in the show notes to inquire about their other projects, Nicaragua, Panama, and of course,

17
00:02:09,380 --> 00:02:14,620
Costa Rica, especially if you're a Bitcoiner, because you can buy your property with Bitcoin

18
00:02:14,620 --> 00:02:21,860
and you can spend Bitcoin at communities. If you've ever wondered what a real-life Bitcoin

19
00:02:21,860 --> 00:02:29,680
Citadel might look like, well, I say look no further. www.veritasvillages.com forward slash

20
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:37,440
free cities. And don't forget our other sponsor, ArcPad. ArcPad's planning a second iteration of

21
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:43,840
their groundbreaking Reef Resort, which is in the Philippines. This time, the new resort is off the

22
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:50,160
coast of prospera in honduras one of the most important free cities projects in the world

23
00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:56,340
i love that these two projects are coming together you can pre-purchase ownership in the prospera

24
00:02:56,340 --> 00:03:03,720
reef resort either outright or via fractional shares from as little as one percent i think this

25
00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:12,580
is a rare chance to get involved early tinyurl.com forward slash arc pad also in the show notes and

26
00:03:12,580 --> 00:03:20,420
of course check out episode 169 with Mitchell Suchner who is the creator of ArcPad and Reef

27
00:03:20,420 --> 00:03:28,020
Resorts. Right, today's show and it's a very popular returning guest this week. Fresh from

28
00:03:28,020 --> 00:03:35,640
his award-winning trip to the stage at the Free Cities Conference, it's Mr Joe Quirk. He's an

29
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:42,480
American author and a sea evangelist, best known as the president of the Seasteading Institute.

30
00:03:43,700 --> 00:03:50,660
They, of course, advocate for floating communities as a way to experiment with new governance models.

31
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,220
He also co-authored the definitive book on seasteading with Patrick Friedman,

32
00:03:57,100 --> 00:04:03,000
Seasteading, How Floating Nations Will Restore the Environment, Enrich the Poor, Cure the Sick

33
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:10,440
and liberate humanity from politicians. What a great title to a book. He's also written a lot

34
00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:17,000
of other fiction and science pop books, but I'm not going to go into those here. But I did go into

35
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:22,420
them on one of our other episodes. I think it was the first one we ever did. Have a look back at that

36
00:04:22,420 --> 00:04:29,320
if you're interested. Okay, due to my extra pointless work overload that I had this morning,

37
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:37,700
I actually asked Chachi Petit to write me the full intro, a funny intro in the style of yours truly.

38
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,480
And I'm going to try and read it as if I'm just saying it.

39
00:04:41,500 --> 00:04:45,820
I haven't actually read it yet, so I'm going to probably, it's probably going to sound terrible, but let's go.

40
00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,280
Might use this in the future if it works.

41
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:56,260
Today's episode begins with Joe Quirk looking me in the eyes and saying, I love you.

42
00:04:56,260 --> 00:05:06,240
which is either the warmest greeting in podcasting or the opening move of a man about to recruit you into a floating micronation.

43
00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:12,340
Because within about 60 seconds, we are immediately into Sealand warning shots,

44
00:05:12,540 --> 00:05:19,660
British judges saying outside our jurisdiction and Joe casually collecting awards like they're air miles,

45
00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:24,560
whilst I'm sat there thinking, this is not an interview, this is a soft coup.

46
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:32,360
and then it gets worse because i made the mistake of googling analogical reasoning five minutes

47
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:39,220
before he arrived so now my brain is full of phrases like polymorphic sovereignty and distributed

48
00:05:39,220 --> 00:05:45,460
mind archipelagos which sounds less like governance innovation and more like a weekend

49
00:05:45,460 --> 00:05:48,240
at Burning Man with Maritime Lawyers.

50
00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:54,700
Chat to you to you actually, that's not bad, mate.

51
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,120
Sorry, I've broken character.

52
00:05:56,500 --> 00:05:59,460
So yes, we talk seasteading, free cities,

53
00:06:00,020 --> 00:06:02,400
cruise ships that look like children's toys

54
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,960
and the genuinely terrifying fact

55
00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,520
that most people hear new governance model

56
00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,960
and assume you're starting a cult on a boat,

57
00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:14,980
which to be fair is not always wrong.

58
00:06:14,980 --> 00:06:23,060
right if you've ever wanted to hear two grown men try to replace the nation state using cruise ships

59
00:06:23,060 --> 00:06:31,400
coral and vibes you're in the right place so let's get into it that wasn't very good there's one

60
00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:38,120
good joke in there but it doesn't sound like me i thought it would know he's been looking through

61
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:47,600
all my previous episodes um okay here's my bullet points from this episode sea land origin story

62
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:53,360
ai and analogical reasoning that was something we did actually talk about cruise ships are cities

63
00:06:53,360 --> 00:07:00,100
paradigm defense psychology state pushback venice hundred thousand competing examples

64
00:07:00,100 --> 00:07:06,940
legal and insurance bottlenecks near-term builds including arc pad and flat earth

65
00:07:06,940 --> 00:07:16,740
yes speaking to joe i just spent two hours in a car with some flat earthers in a taxi and i couldn't

66
00:07:16,740 --> 00:07:23,680
get out and i was i was playing devil's advocate with him anyway joe's a great conversationalist

67
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,520
it's always a pleasure to talk with him i know you're going to like this one right subscribers

68
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:37,840
and bitcoin donators top five this week very easy to see now thanks to fountains new ux which is

69
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,940
actually in beta you can't see it yet but i've been trying it out for a week and they're about

70
00:07:42,940 --> 00:07:47,180
to go live with a new feature which i definitely know you're going to like i can't mention it yet

71
00:07:47,180 --> 00:07:53,060
but it's going to go live soon okay number one bullish mike well done mate two set in stone

72
00:07:53,060 --> 00:07:57,280
and then we've got Dovidas, Pies and Hypno.

73
00:07:57,820 --> 00:08:01,540
Thanks for being the top donators this week.

74
00:08:02,380 --> 00:08:04,780
Let's see what the comments are.

75
00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,260
We've got Pies talking about the Lotta Moberg episode.

76
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,100
As always, it's a bunch of emojis.

77
00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:30,764
Salute meat strong arm and a magic mushroom Can go wrong there uh hypnos says talking about mitchell such in his episode why did he mention ethereum and that the bitcoin maxi spelling of

78
00:08:30,764 --> 00:08:36,904
ethereum with an i if only he had applied the way he thinks about seasteading to crypto anyway

79
00:08:36,904 --> 00:08:43,884
great episode i appreciate discovering seasteading through these episodes also curious to learn more

80
00:08:43,884 --> 00:08:49,484
about the places in Thailand and the Philippines maybe I'll look into renting an Airbnb there yeah

81
00:08:49,484 --> 00:08:55,344
that'd be a great idea and actually this will also be a good episode for you I've I've done a fair

82
00:08:55,344 --> 00:09:01,264
few on seasteading recently mainly because it's taking off again at the moment it's having a new

83
00:09:01,264 --> 00:09:08,644
age of development so there's a lot to talk about but yes highly advisable and obviously check out

84
00:09:08,644 --> 00:09:15,444
the investment opportunity with Mitchell's new resort, which is going to be in Prospera.

85
00:09:15,924 --> 00:09:23,504
Right, let's get into it. Time to fire a ceremonial warning shot into international waters,

86
00:09:24,144 --> 00:09:30,884
declaring yourself outside their jurisdiction as you, that's right, sit back, relax and enjoy my

87
00:09:30,884 --> 00:09:34,084
conversation with Joe Quirk.

88
00:09:38,644 --> 00:09:43,764
There you go.

89
00:09:44,164 --> 00:09:45,324
All right.

90
00:09:46,404 --> 00:09:47,744
God, I love you.

91
00:09:51,404 --> 00:09:52,944
Put your earphones on, mate.

92
00:09:53,104 --> 00:09:54,024
Oh, is that how it works?

93
00:09:54,644 --> 00:09:55,644
They're in front of you.

94
00:09:55,644 --> 00:09:55,904
Oh.

95
00:10:00,904 --> 00:10:02,464
Is this going to be too off-putting?

96
00:10:02,904 --> 00:10:03,344
No.

97
00:10:03,904 --> 00:10:06,244
Keep that thing on, man.

98
00:10:08,644 --> 00:10:20,864
right so yeah uh yeah i wore this to the um i wore this i went to the supermarket about eight

99
00:10:20,864 --> 00:10:26,704
o'clock this morning to get some waters for here someone's running out and i wore this and people

100
00:10:26,704 --> 00:10:32,964
do take a second look they instantly imagine it's a maga hat yeah and i don't know whether they

101
00:10:32,964 --> 00:10:35,344
They might even think it is a MAGA hat still.

102
00:10:35,684 --> 00:10:36,224
Because, you know.

103
00:10:37,084 --> 00:10:38,884
But, yeah.

104
00:10:39,064 --> 00:10:40,364
I was feeling it.

105
00:10:40,944 --> 00:10:45,584
I've got respect for people that do walk around with actual MAGA hats on in certain places.

106
00:10:45,664 --> 00:10:46,784
I think they get a lot of hassle.

107
00:10:47,044 --> 00:10:47,384
They do.

108
00:10:47,604 --> 00:10:48,424
They're inviting hassle.

109
00:10:48,664 --> 00:10:48,884
Yeah.

110
00:10:50,324 --> 00:10:54,944
But, yeah, you're wearing the hat of the founding fathers of seasteading.

111
00:10:55,084 --> 00:10:55,484
Are they?

112
00:10:56,624 --> 00:10:57,024
Absolutely.

113
00:10:57,664 --> 00:10:58,064
Absolutely.

114
00:10:59,984 --> 00:11:00,424
Extraordinary.

115
00:11:00,424 --> 00:11:08,364
It was a fort, a World War II fort off the coast of England when territorial waters were three miles.

116
00:11:08,484 --> 00:11:09,144
It was abandoned.

117
00:11:11,084 --> 00:11:15,564
Major Paddy Roy Bates went out there and took control of it.

118
00:11:16,304 --> 00:11:19,064
And they saved England with rock and roll.

119
00:11:19,184 --> 00:11:22,024
The BBC would only allow rock and roll like an hour a day.

120
00:11:22,104 --> 00:11:23,204
And all the kids wanted it.

121
00:11:23,624 --> 00:11:25,984
They set up a, I'm going through this story very fast.

122
00:11:26,084 --> 00:11:29,564
A pirate radio station blasting rock and roll into England.

123
00:11:29,564 --> 00:11:32,984
and everyone starts listening to the illegal pirate radio station.

124
00:11:34,204 --> 00:11:37,484
And they went through so many swashbuckling adventures,

125
00:11:37,924 --> 00:11:40,864
including Michael Bates, who spoke today

126
00:11:40,864 --> 00:11:43,484
and stood next to me during the thing.

127
00:11:43,984 --> 00:11:47,704
When he was 14 years old, he was guarding Sealand alone,

128
00:11:47,904 --> 00:11:52,164
and he fired a warning shot across the bow of the Royal British Navy.

129
00:11:52,284 --> 00:11:53,544
With what? What kind of gun?

130
00:11:53,544 --> 00:11:54,204
I don't know.

131
00:11:55,244 --> 00:11:56,564
Probably like a BB gun or something.

132
00:11:57,244 --> 00:11:59,384
Well, it wouldn't have been a real, I doubt it would have been.

133
00:11:59,384 --> 00:12:02,064
It was something to make them say, okay, back off.

134
00:12:02,144 --> 00:12:02,444
Really?

135
00:12:02,604 --> 00:12:04,264
Yeah, he was alone, 14.

136
00:12:04,484 --> 00:12:04,844
Wow.

137
00:12:06,704 --> 00:12:08,824
At some point he went to land, they arrested him,

138
00:12:08,884 --> 00:12:09,804
they brought him into court.

139
00:12:11,164 --> 00:12:13,984
The British judge ruled outside our jurisdiction.

140
00:12:14,224 --> 00:12:15,424
We have no jurisdiction.

141
00:12:15,684 --> 00:12:16,284
He was let go.

142
00:12:16,764 --> 00:12:18,044
That is a seasteading move.

143
00:12:18,444 --> 00:12:22,464
I didn't actually interview either of them on this trip.

144
00:12:22,464 --> 00:12:23,484
I couldn't get a hold of them.

145
00:12:23,644 --> 00:12:26,104
They don't answer emails, they don't answer telegram,

146
00:12:26,184 --> 00:12:26,804
they don't answer anything.

147
00:12:27,284 --> 00:12:29,204
And by the time I actually met them in person,

148
00:12:29,384 --> 00:12:31,224
There was no room to fit them in.

149
00:12:31,724 --> 00:12:34,104
But they are in the UK, potentially, aren't they?

150
00:12:34,164 --> 00:12:37,124
So I should be able to follow that one up, I think.

151
00:12:37,204 --> 00:12:37,424
Yeah.

152
00:12:38,044 --> 00:12:39,644
Yeah, very difficult to get hold of.

153
00:12:41,544 --> 00:12:43,064
I'm sure if you're lucky, you can.

154
00:12:43,184 --> 00:12:46,944
But I had a lot of channels, and no one answered anything.

155
00:12:47,364 --> 00:12:48,844
I think everyone reaches out to them.

156
00:12:48,844 --> 00:12:51,624
Matter of fact, I was reaching out to them originally when I was writing the book.

157
00:12:51,724 --> 00:12:53,864
I didn't get answers, but don't hold that against me.

158
00:12:53,864 --> 00:12:54,684
No, no, I don't.

159
00:12:54,684 --> 00:12:58,844
I didn't even see their presentation.

160
00:12:59,384 --> 00:13:04,764
presentations or anything. I've been popping in and out randomly, but I'm going to save that one

161
00:13:04,764 --> 00:13:10,364
so I can do a bit of research and see what it is I want to talk about. But it would have been

162
00:13:10,364 --> 00:13:15,744
good to get them on the pod, but I will at some point. No question about it. By the way,

163
00:13:16,524 --> 00:13:22,224
congratulations on your award. Thank you. Thank you. The greatest storyteller of all time.

164
00:13:22,724 --> 00:13:26,704
I'm going to say that on every podcast. Tidus is never going to live that down.

165
00:13:26,704 --> 00:13:32,564
did you the only reason i know is because for some reason i don't know whether i the the live

166
00:13:32,564 --> 00:13:38,284
stream is publicly available or maybe that's i i don't know but only the only thing available is

167
00:13:38,284 --> 00:13:44,244
that award ceremony so i tapped on it and there it was mr joe quirk storyteller of the century or

168
00:13:44,244 --> 00:13:50,044
whatever yeah and complete coincidence that my talk was was called best story wins and it's all

169
00:13:50,044 --> 00:13:55,444
about how storytelling makes things happen really yeah i mean a lot of the people building seasteads

170
00:13:55,444 --> 00:13:59,404
read my book or saw a video or were compelled by the story,

171
00:13:59,404 --> 00:14:01,904
which suddenly gives people direction and meaning.

172
00:14:02,124 --> 00:14:03,224
That's how people work.

173
00:14:04,184 --> 00:14:10,184
I like the way he also, in his pre-acceptance speech,

174
00:14:10,344 --> 00:14:14,164
Titus, when he was introducing you,

175
00:14:14,224 --> 00:14:17,084
said he even managed to convince Tim Allen.

176
00:14:19,444 --> 00:14:20,884
That's my greatest accomplishment.

177
00:14:21,144 --> 00:14:22,164
Well, no, it's not actually.

178
00:14:22,944 --> 00:14:24,944
I'm a reasonable person.

179
00:14:24,944 --> 00:14:30,784
So if you reason with me and it makes sense, I'll go, yeah, correct.

180
00:14:31,244 --> 00:14:34,044
That's basically what's happened with me in seasteading.

181
00:14:35,324 --> 00:14:36,504
I've reasoned it.

182
00:14:37,084 --> 00:14:37,204
Yeah.

183
00:14:37,384 --> 00:14:40,844
And in fact, actually, let me just get my laptop.

184
00:14:41,284 --> 00:14:41,464
One second.

185
00:14:41,924 --> 00:14:42,084
Yeah.

186
00:14:43,104 --> 00:14:43,924
Should I keep talking?

187
00:14:44,104 --> 00:14:44,984
Yeah, yeah, keep talking.

188
00:14:45,084 --> 00:14:47,644
Because you're my fantasy interviewer.

189
00:14:47,644 --> 00:15:00,264
So I spent, you know, you dream about sitting down with a civil skeptic and doing three three hour podcasts and talking them through all the standard skepticisms people have.

190
00:15:01,104 --> 00:15:11,504
And it's, you know, and I've spent the last 10 years sitting down with hostile people who are going to edit my interview to make me look stupid and evil.

191
00:15:11,504 --> 00:15:17,524
but well that's yeah that that's what i want to start talking about actually because um i i

192
00:15:17,524 --> 00:15:21,324
basically i wasn't going to do any research for this at all because i don't need need to really

193
00:15:21,324 --> 00:15:24,764
i think you've always got something to say and i've always got something to reply but

194
00:15:24,764 --> 00:15:29,424
what i what i thought is i what i want to do is i i just quickly

195
00:15:29,424 --> 00:15:37,624
that was making a humming sound isn't it uh i'll take that off in a minute um i got chachi bt to

196
00:15:37,624 --> 00:15:46,244
um i told it to look through the go into the go into the internet pull me everything written about

197
00:15:46,244 --> 00:15:52,384
seasteading since i last spoke to you put them in a list and tell me positive or negative

198
00:15:52,384 --> 00:15:58,944
what was the what was the stance um i'll show you i'll show you what they came up with um because

199
00:15:58,944 --> 00:16:03,944
it's interesting right bearing in mind what we what we were talking about last week last last

200
00:16:03,944 --> 00:16:09,524
year so here we go here's your updated list 2025 this is so you've got the independent

201
00:16:09,524 --> 00:16:16,164
seasteading is making a comeback but is but is but its history is stained with failure stance

202
00:16:16,164 --> 00:16:21,664
negative cautionary you know notes renewed interest in ocean living but frame seasteading

203
00:16:21,664 --> 00:16:26,544
as a silicon valley valentine project you know you'll have heard all of these plagued by collapse

204
00:16:26,544 --> 00:16:31,324
impracticality and elitism i i can answer each of those in terms of right but i just want to give

205
00:16:31,324 --> 00:16:46,028
you the general the sentiment right yeah then we got another one here have to research this is negative seasteading radical vision or dystopian future I just I won summarize them all Next one The Independent Silicon Valley weirdest idea is back on the agenda

206
00:16:46,708 --> 00:16:48,128
Mixed to slightly positive.

207
00:16:48,128 --> 00:16:49,868
This is Chachi Biti, right?

208
00:16:51,388 --> 00:16:52,408
July 25.

209
00:16:53,408 --> 00:16:55,488
This is a blog, so it's always going to be good.

210
00:16:55,928 --> 00:16:58,468
The Seasteads, not just for billionaires or libertarians.

211
00:16:58,708 --> 00:16:59,328
Stance positive.

212
00:16:59,568 --> 00:17:02,488
So yeah, that's the independent media, isn't it?

213
00:17:03,508 --> 00:17:04,268
Edge effects.

214
00:17:04,268 --> 00:17:13,228
is seasteading another word for colonialism negative uh new york times is google breaking up

215
00:17:13,228 --> 00:17:17,828
seasteading is back it was a it was a yeah you probably don't know about it this is chat gpt

216
00:17:17,828 --> 00:17:23,868
this went into a podcast this is um neutral to inform and informative briefly discusses these

217
00:17:23,868 --> 00:17:29,988
briefly discusses seasteading's resurgence in a broader tech culture new york times again

218
00:17:29,988 --> 00:17:37,328
the techno utopians who want to colonize the sea cautiously positive new york times you know

219
00:17:37,328 --> 00:17:44,788
profiles ocean libertarians and investors with fascination and mild skepticism admires innovation

220
00:17:44,788 --> 00:17:52,228
but questions governance and inclusivity yeah no kids are shit about that last little bit but the

221
00:17:52,228 --> 00:17:57,688
rest of it cool um then we've got the seasteading institute positive c saids on two sides of the

222
00:17:57,688 --> 00:18:03,308
world obviously uh last one is uh floating crypto islands and the hunt for the decentralized utopia

223
00:18:03,308 --> 00:18:08,928
which is positive optimistic right now this is where like i'm getting i'm starting to get a bit

224
00:18:08,928 --> 00:18:16,048
disillusioned with chat to bt in a good way because i did that and i thought great and it's like would

225
00:18:16,048 --> 00:18:22,308
you like me to visualize this as a sentiment graph and i'm like do i do i want to send yeah

226
00:18:22,308 --> 00:18:26,768
fuck i want a sentiment graph of course i do so it gave me a sentiment graph and then like right

227
00:18:26,768 --> 00:18:31,888
so all right then show it to me over the last 10 years then do you know i mean like and and all of

228
00:18:31,888 --> 00:18:37,508
a sudden like i'm i'm 40 minutes in down this rabbit hole and it's showing me essentially that

229
00:18:37,508 --> 00:18:43,788
there's been a pump in in good sentiment recently and i'm assuming that's because there's been some

230
00:18:43,788 --> 00:18:49,488
prototypes that have appeared i mean look i can feel it now myself there's there's people the the

231
00:18:49,488 --> 00:18:54,388
seasteaders that i've known for the last three years are all are all have all released products

232
00:18:54,388 --> 00:18:59,668
now apart from maybe grant you could say but he has a working prototype worth five million dollars

233
00:18:59,668 --> 00:19:05,988
so that that's different he's not you know but they've all got plans or prototypes to actually

234
00:19:05,988 --> 00:19:10,388
market you can buy that thing now if you want apart from grant but grants is a special case yeah

235
00:19:11,508 --> 00:19:16,388
and so when i when i read all that stuff about seasteadings making a comeback is that you

236
00:19:16,388 --> 00:19:20,548
doing pr making them think that or are they working that out for themselves

237
00:19:20,548 --> 00:19:27,308
turning around the crap brand of seasteading that i inherited yeah i take credit for that

238
00:19:27,308 --> 00:19:33,808
um and is it because of the new all the new stuff that's happened in 2025 you know i think it's it's

239
00:19:33,808 --> 00:19:41,908
it's uh opening it's it's a long-term project of of putting new ideas in people's heads

240
00:19:41,908 --> 00:19:49,228
about what it is so keep in mind i think every journalist you just listed never spoke to us

241
00:19:49,228 --> 00:19:52,968
Oh yeah, I'm sure they did. The Independent definitely didn't speak to you. They haven't

242
00:19:52,968 --> 00:19:56,828
got the staff for that. They wouldn't even cover the cost of an international phone call,

243
00:19:56,928 --> 00:20:07,428
mate, I tell you. Yeah. But the turnaround has been how it's talked about. When I came

244
00:20:07,428 --> 00:20:11,588
on Seasteading and thought it would change the world, I go on Google and it was the worst

245
00:20:11,588 --> 00:20:17,128
brand I'd ever seen. It was billionaires are evil and they want evil islands of selfishness.

246
00:20:17,128 --> 00:20:23,248
and so i you know as i explained in my talk yesterday you have to tell a bigger

247
00:20:23,248 --> 00:20:28,108
better story you also journalists are lazy you have to do their work for them

248
00:20:28,108 --> 00:20:34,668
i agree with that so uh they are like that actually yeah so what is it the daily mail

249
00:20:34,668 --> 00:20:39,748
had this nightmare i used to contrast these two things i was so proud of it so when i came on the

250
00:20:39,748 --> 00:20:45,988
the daily mail just had you know just a list of evil stuff that that ceased dating inherited

251
00:20:45,988 --> 00:20:52,088
and then um three years later they came out with another report about sea stating when we were

252
00:20:52,088 --> 00:20:58,208
working in french polynesia and virtually the entire article was words from me so without

253
00:20:58,208 --> 00:21:02,608
attributing me they didn't matter that yeah they literally went to the website and took a checklist

254
00:21:02,608 --> 00:21:08,128
i had and published that so it's like they're rushed and lazy and so if you can give them

255
00:21:08,128 --> 00:21:11,788
something that's better than what they were going to do otherwise they'll take that and use it and

256
00:21:11,788 --> 00:21:18,228
plagiarize it. So I've sort of done that over and over. But yes, it is also true that actual

257
00:21:18,228 --> 00:21:25,688
Seastead prototypes are floating. And three different companies have opened sales, two of

258
00:21:25,688 --> 00:21:31,788
today. And Grant is willing to sell a Seapod. If you want to go and buy a Seapod, he will sell it

259
00:21:31,788 --> 00:21:35,168
to you. Their first client just happens to be the government of the Maldives.

260
00:21:35,768 --> 00:21:36,628
Really? Yeah.

261
00:21:36,728 --> 00:21:37,328
Has he sold one?

262
00:21:37,328 --> 00:21:42,808
they're they are building a they're helping build a floating city in the maldives

263
00:21:42,808 --> 00:21:50,668
come on how come i haven't heard of that because someone's building a floating city in the maldives

264
00:21:50,668 --> 00:21:54,748
yeah because the journalists don't tell me that like that's the journalists don't tell you no but

265
00:21:54,748 --> 00:21:59,248
you i know you you could have popped me a little message say hey guess what someone's been building

266
00:21:59,248 --> 00:22:04,468
a floating city in the maldives well yeah i mean all sorts of exciting stuff is is going on i could

267
00:22:04,468 --> 00:22:09,008
be popping messages all the time yeah but that's big isn't it like what kind of floating city what

268
00:22:09,008 --> 00:22:16,208
are we talking here uh we'll call it a floating village um uh in partnership with i like to say

269
00:22:16,208 --> 00:22:23,048
the first aquapreneur you meet in my book uh kuhn ooth house of water studio who's uh designed the

270
00:22:23,048 --> 00:22:30,188
seapod um dutch docklands is a company they've been worked they've got a great um atoll in the

271
00:22:30,188 --> 00:22:36,928
Maldives and they want to build a floating eco-tourism village.

272
00:22:37,808 --> 00:22:39,648
And is it based around Grant's designs?

273
00:22:40,268 --> 00:22:42,168
Is it quite, you know, like...

274
00:22:42,168 --> 00:22:43,888
It's going to be a lot of units.

275
00:22:44,048 --> 00:22:46,268
They're bringing in a lot of architects.

276
00:22:46,268 --> 00:22:53,368
I think Ocean Builders is commissioned to build like 20 on Grant and Kuhn's design.

277
00:22:53,668 --> 00:22:54,308
Oh my God.

278
00:22:54,768 --> 00:22:57,828
So like 20 of those pods or like something similar?

279
00:22:58,028 --> 00:22:58,228
Yeah.

280
00:22:58,228 --> 00:23:06,008
gosh that'll look that'll look awesome right okay look all right i'm going to go back to my

281
00:23:06,008 --> 00:23:13,508
jgbt story because so like suddenly now i'm down the rabbit hole it's it's it's creating it's

282
00:23:13,508 --> 00:23:18,708
creating and i i when i when i got to that point so i'm looking at all these graphs and i remembered

283
00:23:18,708 --> 00:23:24,468
yesterday i was having a number of conversations about ai for some reason it just it just came up

284
00:23:24,468 --> 00:23:31,128
a lot and I remembered that a number of months ago I'd had this very long and deep conversation

285
00:23:31,128 --> 00:23:39,168
with Chachi BD5 Pro about whether it could think an innovative thought as it basically and and um

286
00:23:39,168 --> 00:23:45,388
it explained to me the way it um it can be innovative in a way that I understood which

287
00:23:45,388 --> 00:23:51,728
takes a lot for me but I couldn't remember how it was I knew it was I knew roughly what it was

288
00:23:51,728 --> 00:23:56,668
And it was along the lines of if A is to B, then C is to D.

289
00:23:56,788 --> 00:24:03,728
So if it knows A is to B, if it knows that pedals are to moving bicycles,

290
00:24:04,188 --> 00:24:09,528
then it can extrapolate a completely different thing and make a connection.

291
00:24:09,948 --> 00:24:12,548
So I kind of said, we were talking about this a few months ago.

292
00:24:12,628 --> 00:24:13,328
What the hell was it?

293
00:24:13,548 --> 00:24:16,108
Just in case it came up in the conversation today.

294
00:24:16,468 --> 00:24:18,428
It turns out it was called analogical reasoning.

295
00:24:18,428 --> 00:24:28,408
but then immediately it said shall we analogically reason seasteading and i'm like well fuck it yeah

296
00:24:28,408 --> 00:24:33,968
why not why not i've only got like you know three and a half minutes before joe joe quirk arrives

297
00:24:33,968 --> 00:24:41,028
but this thing is getting off the scale i mean it's it's almost like it's too much now so it's

298
00:24:41,028 --> 00:24:49,248
given me eight analogical innovations for seasteading. Chorologic orbital governance,

299
00:24:49,828 --> 00:25:09,612
polyphonic sovereignty kelp grid urbanism creole economies fluid architecture distributed mind archipelagos and odyssey citizenship and that just what grant is doing no but seriously dude what the fuck is going on like what am i

300
00:25:09,612 --> 00:25:14,812
supposed to like and it's and it's mapped them all out you know like like you know what do you

301
00:25:14,812 --> 00:25:20,172
what do you think of distributed mind archipelago is right the analogy neurons are separate but

302
00:25:20,172 --> 00:25:25,592
connected through networks forming cognition abstract structure distributed intelligence

303
00:25:25,592 --> 00:25:31,812
through connection applied to seasteading cognitive archipelago multiple specialized seasteads

304
00:25:31,812 --> 00:25:38,292
energy culture research governance that acts like brain regions connected by high bandwidth marine

305
00:25:38,292 --> 00:25:43,312
internet collectively forming a global oceanic intelligence that's an obvious one actually

306
00:25:43,312 --> 00:25:49,992
a couple of them are like what the what is going on like so that that just articulated the reason

307
00:25:49,992 --> 00:25:51,472
why I'm seasteading.

308
00:25:51,672 --> 00:25:51,972
Right.

309
00:25:52,892 --> 00:25:54,372
But what I mean is like,

310
00:25:54,692 --> 00:25:56,472
ChatGPT is getting out of control.

311
00:25:56,852 --> 00:25:59,312
Like I feel like, you know,

312
00:25:59,372 --> 00:26:01,012
every time it suggests something to me,

313
00:26:01,052 --> 00:26:03,232
I go, oh, yeah, okay then, why not?

314
00:26:03,612 --> 00:26:06,472
It's like, it's way beyond, you know,

315
00:26:06,512 --> 00:26:11,432
like I could sit and ponder these things for ages.

316
00:26:11,432 --> 00:26:13,432
And yes, I kind of understand them.

317
00:26:13,812 --> 00:26:17,932
And then ChatGPT just reels off 10 novel ideas.

318
00:26:19,992 --> 00:26:29,532
And, you know, when I originally got into analogical reasoning with it, I was Googling everything it was saying.

319
00:26:29,672 --> 00:26:32,232
So, well, I was saying, all right, let's test this hypothesis.

320
00:26:32,592 --> 00:26:33,332
Is this original?

321
00:26:33,512 --> 00:26:42,272
Because a lot of I was getting it to do inspirational quotes based on brand new novel allocations of words.

322
00:26:42,272 --> 00:26:47,352
Because, you know, like inspirational quotes, most people just say the same one over and over again.

323
00:26:47,532 --> 00:26:47,672
Yeah.

324
00:26:47,672 --> 00:26:52,272
and it was coming out with these quotes which were like wow that sounds good and then i would google

325
00:26:52,272 --> 00:26:59,552
them zero results you know right it's fine it's it's it's getting insane and i'm i'm i'm almost

326
00:26:59,552 --> 00:27:06,052
like i feel like i've got a bit of chat chupiti fatigue do you know what i mean too much it's too

327
00:27:06,052 --> 00:27:12,412
much it's like it's racing ahead of me too fast every time i say something it's like i can make

328
00:27:12,412 --> 00:27:17,372
that better i can why don't we do this why don't we do this and i'm like yeah calm down mate i want

329
00:27:17,372 --> 00:27:19,212
I have a cup of tea first, you know?

330
00:27:20,312 --> 00:27:21,032
I don't know.

331
00:27:21,192 --> 00:27:21,392
Maybe.

332
00:27:21,512 --> 00:27:22,212
Do you use it a lot?

333
00:27:22,932 --> 00:27:24,132
GPT5, the new one?

334
00:27:24,372 --> 00:27:24,692
No.

335
00:27:25,392 --> 00:27:25,752
No?

336
00:27:25,972 --> 00:27:27,072
Oh, Jesus, mate.

337
00:27:28,172 --> 00:27:30,072
Yeah, it'd be too depressing for you, actually.

338
00:27:30,112 --> 00:27:30,652
You're an author.

339
00:27:31,072 --> 00:27:32,492
You'll realize that you're redundant.

340
00:27:33,252 --> 00:27:33,612
Yeah.

341
00:27:35,352 --> 00:27:36,372
I don't know, man.

342
00:27:36,752 --> 00:27:39,992
So you just read me all that stuff, and just like the images

343
00:27:39,992 --> 00:27:41,712
and almost everything it gives back to me,

344
00:27:41,712 --> 00:27:43,832
it falls into the uncanny valley to me.

345
00:27:44,172 --> 00:27:45,532
What does that mean, uncanny valley?

346
00:27:45,632 --> 00:27:46,372
The uncanny valley.

347
00:27:46,372 --> 00:27:50,732
I used to work for Pixar and I keep thinking, just a summer.

348
00:27:51,532 --> 00:27:53,852
And I keep thinking this is a common idea.

349
00:27:55,372 --> 00:28:00,312
But basically if you do an animation and it looks like a cartoon, that's nice.

350
00:28:00,492 --> 00:28:04,112
If it looks a lot like, you know, a human being, that's nice.

351
00:28:04,292 --> 00:28:07,552
If it's somewhere in the middle, it kind of creeps people out.

352
00:28:08,072 --> 00:28:10,332
It's like there's something alien and weird about this.

353
00:28:10,872 --> 00:28:14,632
So everything ChatGP does is in the uncanny valley.

354
00:28:14,632 --> 00:28:20,212
especially when people say oh do an image of tim allen and joe quirk oh that's so cool and i'm like

355
00:28:20,212 --> 00:28:24,692
it looks kind of creepy to me so what you just read to me i'm like yeah that sounds like it was

356
00:28:24,692 --> 00:28:29,632
produced by a robot pulling together all sorts of language and doesn't know what it's saying

357
00:28:29,632 --> 00:28:35,452
that's what i hear you know it doesn't know it doesn't know what it's saying no but it's it's

358
00:28:35,452 --> 00:28:42,572
working like it's doing what my brain does in one respect when i try and innovate that's why i was

359
00:28:42,572 --> 00:28:47,192
really interested in analogical reasoning because it's like i think that's how my brain works right

360
00:28:47,192 --> 00:28:54,992
when you talk when you start talking about um you know cruise ships that's why private cities

361
00:28:54,992 --> 00:29:03,372
suddenly make sense that that's a very very simple form of analogical reasoning it's like

362
00:29:03,372 --> 00:29:12,132
you know something this happens in in a floating in a in a in a you know in a cruise ship therefore

363
00:29:12,132 --> 00:29:18,912
on land if you implement this this happens yeah but it's very crude that's very crude what what

364
00:29:18,912 --> 00:29:25,012
what but but but i think my brain works like that because often i draw those parallels or i or i

365
00:29:25,012 --> 00:29:32,732
create like so you see the the analog and then you then you abstract it and then you oppose it

366
00:29:32,732 --> 00:29:38,372
propose it for something else it's it's simply not the same so what you just read to me sounds to me

367
00:29:38,372 --> 00:29:43,092
like a robot academic that's read a bunch of stuff and then is bullshitting, throwing together a bunch

368
00:29:43,092 --> 00:29:48,332
of key phrases. And I'm like, what are you actually talking about, mate? You know, maybe that's a bad

369
00:29:48,332 --> 00:29:58,052
example. As opposed to the cruise ship to seastead analogy is a reduction. It seems simple to you,

370
00:29:58,132 --> 00:30:03,872
but it's actually people are talking about seasteading for a long time. And they argue

371
00:30:03,872 --> 00:30:08,472
about theory and they argue about, and over a lot of time you distill to a concrete example.

372
00:30:08,552 --> 00:30:15,132
What's a concrete example of what we're talking about? Why do we have free cities and talk about

373
00:30:15,132 --> 00:30:20,652
this? And no one ever uses the cruise ship as an example. It takes a human mind to reduce everything

374
00:30:20,652 --> 00:30:25,752
we're talking about to a concrete example that we know is going to resonate for people that don't

375
00:30:25,752 --> 00:30:30,332
understand all the theories. And then you use that and you say it over and over because you understand

376
00:30:30,332 --> 00:30:32,292
how other human minds work.

377
00:30:33,432 --> 00:30:34,992
That's what a human does,

378
00:30:35,132 --> 00:30:36,552
which is completely different than that.

379
00:30:37,412 --> 00:30:39,872
Yeah, maybe in that particular case,

380
00:30:39,872 --> 00:30:45,352
but the GPT-5 would mimic what you've just said perfectly.

381
00:30:45,792 --> 00:30:47,612
Maybe even without me prompting it,

382
00:30:47,792 --> 00:30:53,872
if I said, right, let's look at this analogical reasoning list

383
00:30:53,872 --> 00:30:57,032
and see what you could apply it to

384
00:30:57,032 --> 00:30:59,092
that already exists on the earth,

385
00:30:59,352 --> 00:31:01,492
it would probably come up with a cruise liner.

386
00:31:01,772 --> 00:31:02,292
I think.

387
00:31:02,492 --> 00:31:02,912
I don't know.

388
00:31:02,972 --> 00:31:03,712
I'll check it afterwards.

389
00:31:03,852 --> 00:31:05,032
It's not the right time to go into it.

390
00:31:05,612 --> 00:31:06,412
I'll tell you what.

391
00:31:06,512 --> 00:31:07,612
I think it wouldn't.

392
00:31:08,152 --> 00:31:09,352
Not before I said it.

393
00:31:09,492 --> 00:31:10,252
I think it would not.

394
00:31:10,472 --> 00:31:13,132
Let me tell you a little story.

395
00:31:13,832 --> 00:31:15,692
While you're telling me the story, I'm just going to try.

396
00:31:15,812 --> 00:31:16,252
I'm going to say.

397
00:31:17,092 --> 00:31:18,612
Well, it's too late now because it's going to.

398
00:31:19,152 --> 00:31:21,572
Before you even try, I'm going to show you why this is not going to work.

399
00:31:21,572 --> 00:31:22,912
I've not mentioned cruise ships at all with it.

400
00:31:23,412 --> 00:31:24,192
But I have.

401
00:31:24,192 --> 00:31:25,032
It's going to scour.

402
00:31:25,292 --> 00:31:26,712
Let me tell you my story.

403
00:31:26,792 --> 00:31:27,832
No, it won't look at the internet.

404
00:31:27,932 --> 00:31:28,972
It's going to use the LLM.

405
00:31:29,092 --> 00:31:29,712
I'll ask it to.

406
00:31:29,732 --> 00:31:30,972
Oh, well, what's the LLM?

407
00:31:31,372 --> 00:31:33,452
So it means it's not sourcing,

408
00:31:33,852 --> 00:31:35,632
it's not in real time going to the internet.

409
00:31:35,892 --> 00:31:37,772
It's just using the large language model,

410
00:31:37,892 --> 00:31:39,892
which could be based on other stuff.

411
00:31:40,432 --> 00:31:42,132
Where does it get the large language?

412
00:31:42,292 --> 00:31:43,092
Yeah, it depends.

413
00:31:43,892 --> 00:31:45,392
But are you talking about something

414
00:31:45,392 --> 00:31:47,032
that you've said very, very recently?

415
00:31:47,312 --> 00:31:47,572
Yes.

416
00:31:47,932 --> 00:31:48,472
Well, let's see.

417
00:31:48,552 --> 00:31:49,812
It might not have it on there.

418
00:31:50,692 --> 00:31:51,092
Okay.

419
00:31:52,292 --> 00:31:53,592
Use these.

420
00:31:54,912 --> 00:31:56,292
I need to put my glasses on.

421
00:31:56,992 --> 00:31:58,892
I'm not threatened by chat GBT.

422
00:31:58,892 --> 00:32:01,852
I'm threatened by everyone thinking it's God.

423
00:32:02,752 --> 00:32:06,372
The stupidity of everyone thinking this is the answer

424
00:32:06,372 --> 00:32:09,072
and you don't need to think, you can just go to JetGPT

425
00:32:09,072 --> 00:32:11,112
and then it gives you what you read to me.

426
00:32:16,432 --> 00:32:20,612
Okay, so I put, use these analogies to show me a real life example

427
00:32:20,612 --> 00:32:23,492
of how this manifests in 2025.

428
00:32:23,492 --> 00:32:28,552
it's probably gonna

429
00:32:28,552 --> 00:32:34,812
oh searching the web here are the three real life examples of how

430
00:32:34,812 --> 00:32:39,072
the analogical concepts from from the oh

431
00:32:39,072 --> 00:32:44,612
bloody hell it's gone to what it's gone to

432
00:32:44,612 --> 00:32:49,532
you're showing me grant remont stuff is showing me arc pad is showing me

433
00:32:49,532 --> 00:32:57,932
everything yep um oh my god it's doing it for all of them it's doing it for creole economic

434
00:32:57,932 --> 00:33:05,452
economies wait a minute let me just put something really retarded what about cruise ships let's get

435
00:33:05,452 --> 00:33:11,832
my skeptical face on camera what about cruise ships excellent question and absolutely on point

436
00:33:11,832 --> 00:33:18,152
cruise ships in 2025 are arguably the closest real world manifestation of sea setting principles

437
00:33:18,152 --> 00:33:19,972
at scale even if they

438
00:33:20,016 --> 00:33:20,856
Don't call them that.

439
00:33:21,136 --> 00:33:24,256
They demonstrate many of the analogical ideas we've discussed.

440
00:33:24,836 --> 00:33:29,156
Orbital governance, polyphonic sovereignty, fluid architecture, etc.

441
00:33:29,696 --> 00:33:31,416
Let's break this down.

442
00:33:32,536 --> 00:33:34,216
Where did it get that?

443
00:33:34,776 --> 00:33:36,316
Well, hopefully you got that one from me.

444
00:33:36,596 --> 00:33:38,856
Because I've done more talks than you in 2025.

445
00:33:39,276 --> 00:33:41,796
And I've mentioned cruise ships in every single one, mate.

446
00:33:41,796 --> 00:33:43,356
And I appreciate that very much.

447
00:33:43,356 --> 00:33:52,196
And you ranting with enthusiasm about seasteading is way more appealing, human, organic and interesting than anything there.

448
00:33:52,696 --> 00:33:53,176
It's the one.

449
00:33:53,336 --> 00:33:53,936
It's the bridge.

450
00:33:54,056 --> 00:33:55,176
It's the olive branch.

451
00:33:55,496 --> 00:33:57,096
It's the Free Cities olive branch.

452
00:33:57,616 --> 00:33:59,416
It's so easy to wrap your head around.

453
00:33:59,876 --> 00:34:02,936
And I've not yet encountered anyone.

454
00:34:03,816 --> 00:34:06,316
Even I was talking to Lotto Moberg last night.

455
00:34:06,956 --> 00:34:10,256
And she kind of never thought about it before in that sense.

456
00:34:10,256 --> 00:34:11,976
She's kind of in the mood.

457
00:34:12,056 --> 00:34:13,156
She's in the SEZ place.

458
00:34:13,356 --> 00:34:17,336
But you watch people's faces go, oh, yeah.

459
00:34:17,776 --> 00:34:17,896
Yeah.

460
00:34:18,036 --> 00:34:18,416
Oh, yeah.

461
00:34:18,936 --> 00:34:22,096
It's like I did exactly that when you told me.

462
00:34:22,396 --> 00:34:26,616
I was like, okay, I'm going to go away and I'm going to steel man that.

463
00:34:26,736 --> 00:34:28,016
But yeah, you're right.

464
00:34:28,296 --> 00:34:28,656
It is.

465
00:34:29,176 --> 00:34:31,036
Everyone go out and steel man this.

466
00:34:31,336 --> 00:34:38,796
Everything David Friedman writes about in his book, everything Michael Humer writes about in his book has been existing for decades on the ocean.

467
00:34:38,796 --> 00:34:45,576
anarcho-capitalist floating cities that provide you governance, provide you better services,

468
00:34:45,736 --> 00:34:51,556
make them all cheaper in endless diversity, serving all sorts of needs you can't imagine,

469
00:34:51,696 --> 00:34:58,696
hiring people from all over the world, making poor people rich, with decentralized regulators

470
00:34:58,696 --> 00:35:05,696
competing for each other. The golden age of voluntarism, anarcho-capitalism has already

471
00:35:05,696 --> 00:35:10,156
emerged. It's all over two-thirds of the Earth's surface. It's completely flourishing. It's long

472
00:35:10,156 --> 00:35:15,196
since entered its golden age. We've already proved that it works because it emerged naturally on the

473
00:35:15,196 --> 00:35:21,376
sea. It's called the cruise ship industry. I'd like to take a couple of minutes just to tell you

474
00:35:21,376 --> 00:35:26,196
about what I think is one of the most interesting real-world freedom projects that we've come across

475
00:35:26,196 --> 00:35:30,316
recently. If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you'll know that I'm always looking

476
00:35:30,316 --> 00:35:35,676
for things that actually exist, not the concepts, not the renderings, but real projects where people

477
00:35:35,676 --> 00:35:41,296
are already building the future. And this brings me to the Reef Resort, developed by the seasteading

478
00:35:41,296 --> 00:35:46,836
company ArcPad, founded, of course, by Mitchell Suchner, who, many of you will remember, was the

479
00:35:46,836 --> 00:35:52,856
winner of the Innovation Award at the 2025 Free Cities Conference. The Reef Resort, as far as

480
00:35:52,856 --> 00:35:58,096
we're aware, is the world's first operational seasteading resort. It's located just off the

481
00:35:58,096 --> 00:36:03,756
coast of Samal Island in the Philippines, where ArcPad currently operates. 14 floating units

482
00:36:03,756 --> 00:36:09,116
available through Airbnb and other platforms, a project that has already hosted thousands of

483
00:36:09,116 --> 00:36:14,476
guests in both their accommodation and floating restaurant. Now, here's the development that will

484
00:36:14,476 --> 00:36:20,396
be especially interesting to listeners of this podcast. ArcPad is planning a second reef resort,

485
00:36:20,676 --> 00:36:26,336
this time off the coast of Prospera in Honduras, one of the most important Free Cities projects in

486
00:36:26,336 --> 00:36:32,876
the world, and construction is intended to align with the 2026 Free Cities Conference. So this is

487
00:36:32,876 --> 00:36:38,376
where the opportunity comes for you. You can now pre-purchase ownership in the Prospera Reef Resort.

488
00:36:38,616 --> 00:36:43,496
Ownership is available either outright or through fractional shares, allowing you to purchase from

489
00:36:43,496 --> 00:36:49,376
as little as 1% up to full ownership. Your ownership percentage determines your usage rights,

490
00:36:49,556 --> 00:36:54,376
your share of rental income from the eco-resort operations, and your voting power in property

491
00:36:54,376 --> 00:37:00,016
decisions. This also gives you the opportunity, of course, to be part of a pioneering ocean-based

492
00:37:00,016 --> 00:37:06,176
development within the Free Cities ecosystem. Full units at the Prospera site start from $95,000,

493
00:37:06,556 --> 00:37:11,636
but with fractional ownership available, you can participate at whatever level suits you.

494
00:37:11,776 --> 00:37:16,356
If you'd like to explore this opportunity, I've included a link in the show notes where you can

495
00:37:16,356 --> 00:37:21,416
register your interest and access the pre-purchase information. If you're interested in Free Cities,

496
00:37:21,696 --> 00:37:27,276
Frontier Living, and the future of ocean-based communities, then this is a chance to get involved

497
00:37:27,276 --> 00:37:33,996
at the ground floor. Seasteading is no longer just an idea. It's happening and now it's coming to

498
00:37:33,996 --> 00:37:44,696
prospera. I've got one for you because I spoke two nights ago at the end. Did you hear Yaron

499
00:37:44,696 --> 00:37:51,216
speak at the conference? Yes. I spoke to him afterwards on a, and I didn't really, I don't

500
00:37:51,216 --> 00:37:55,476
know who he was. I didn't really know. But one of the first things he said to me is I've done three

501
00:37:55,476 --> 00:38:01,396
interviews with uh Lex Friedman and they were all about three hours long and I'm like oh here we go

502
00:38:01,396 --> 00:38:05,876
bearing in mind this was at like six o'clock on Saturday I was almost practically hallucinating

503
00:38:05,876 --> 00:38:10,756
from like from like three previous long conversations that day but I thought I'll

504
00:38:10,756 --> 00:38:16,436
give it a go so I don't know how well I argued the point but he I we got into sea steady as I

505
00:38:16,436 --> 00:38:26,616
often do now and he said nah he said look Trump just blew up a Venezuelan ship do you honestly

506
00:38:26,616 --> 00:38:32,356
believe Trump is if there's if there's a floating city of California and people in California are

507
00:38:32,356 --> 00:38:36,516
complaining because they're going out of business do you honestly believe there's not going to be

508
00:38:36,516 --> 00:38:42,676
some kind of um you know you know in the end it's a bit like the people that say about Bitcoin I

509
00:38:42,676 --> 00:38:44,856
I think they're just going to stop it.

510
00:38:45,576 --> 00:38:47,336
Come on, so how do I properly?

511
00:38:47,696 --> 00:38:49,116
I'll tell you what my response was.

512
00:38:49,216 --> 00:38:52,776
Look, a little ship in Venezuela, that's one thing.

513
00:38:53,216 --> 00:38:55,376
But if you're talking about an actual floating city,

514
00:38:55,376 --> 00:38:57,676
which I now believe will exist in the future,

515
00:38:58,356 --> 00:39:02,376
that's an international incidence of such magnitude

516
00:39:02,376 --> 00:39:04,956
that I don't actually think it would happen.

517
00:39:05,036 --> 00:39:06,856
All right, it's not a non-zero chance,

518
00:39:07,756 --> 00:39:10,796
but a highly unlikely thing.

519
00:39:10,916 --> 00:39:11,716
Is that a good answer?

520
00:39:12,676 --> 00:39:19,256
Yes. And again, let's get concrete examples. So there's a floating city off the coast of San

521
00:39:19,256 --> 00:39:25,076
Francisco right now. It's parked in the dock. If the workers on that ship are not allowed to step

522
00:39:25,076 --> 00:39:29,916
off that ship, otherwise they engage the labor laws of California and the US, but they don't.

523
00:39:29,996 --> 00:39:33,276
They're probably engaging the labor laws of Panama or something because they're staying on

524
00:39:33,276 --> 00:39:40,736
the ship. A floating self-governing city, probably worth a billion dollars, is off the coast of US

525
00:39:40,736 --> 00:39:45,136
right now yeah and i'm being modest a lot of them are worth more than that it's already flourishing

526
00:39:45,136 --> 00:39:54,716
all over the sea so uh cayman islands completely spiteful stance towards the u.s with regard to

527
00:39:54,716 --> 00:40:02,476
welcoming medical mavericks have we spoken about this before financial gives the middle finger to

528
00:40:02,476 --> 00:40:07,116
the u.s it's where you can hide money yeah long and short of it why doesn't the u.s just invade

529
00:40:07,116 --> 00:40:14,316
them and take it over. We can go on and on and on with this stuff. Malaysia doesn't invade Singapore

530
00:40:14,316 --> 00:40:23,476
and take it. My favorite, most extreme example of powerless island nations that don't get blown up

531
00:40:23,476 --> 00:40:29,876
because they're different is Trinidad and Tobago, which is a couple miles off the coast of socialist

532
00:40:29,876 --> 00:40:35,736
Venezuela. Why doesn't, Jesus, why doesn't Maduro just invade Trinidad and Tobago and take all their

533
00:40:35,736 --> 00:40:41,176
wealth well i mean there's i mean there's a guy at the conference tim stern building in free city on

534
00:40:41,176 --> 00:40:47,216
on margarita island which is in venezuela that's a free economic zone now yeah people have said the

535
00:40:47,216 --> 00:40:51,976
same thing oh great you build it up and then madura is going to steal it or nationalize it let's say

536
00:40:51,976 --> 00:40:56,736
but um yeah and they all these places are defense lift they have no standing army there's nothing

537
00:40:56,736 --> 00:41:02,656
they can do all they have is their negotiations and their treaties and their i think of it as

538
00:41:02,656 --> 00:41:11,556
think like a cleaner fish so that if if if trump is riding a big shark of the united states military

539
00:41:11,556 --> 00:41:16,176
you want to be like a cleaner fish you want to go in those teeth and provide a service that

540
00:41:16,176 --> 00:41:20,516
trump appreciates like the cayman islands or something i think what probably he was alluding

541
00:41:20,516 --> 00:41:28,236
to and so was i was that when you're 13 miles off the coast of california and you're and i'm

542
00:41:28,236 --> 00:41:32,696
talking to the future where they're big islands basically proper floating

543
00:41:32,696 --> 00:41:47,114
islands and you directly competing you not you not like a cruise ship that offering a service You offering health medical tourism You offering all kinds of cheap free you might be selling

544
00:41:47,114 --> 00:41:55,394
arms that you couldn't do in, in California. I don't know, whatever. It becomes much more

545
00:41:55,394 --> 00:42:00,754
of a threat. Right. So I live, I live in California. I can drive a few miles south

546
00:42:00,754 --> 00:42:04,494
and buy everything you just mentioned for a 10th of the price. Drugs, weapons.

547
00:42:04,494 --> 00:42:07,474
Yeah. So why don't they just blow up Mexico?

548
00:42:07,894 --> 00:42:11,354
Well, because, well, like I say, yeah, that would be an absolutely...

549
00:42:11,354 --> 00:42:14,074
I mean, talk about competing with big money interests in the US.

550
00:42:14,434 --> 00:42:26,574
But a floating island is more of a target. It's the kind of thing you could attack. You can't really attack in this day and age Mexico, can you? It's vast.

551
00:42:26,574 --> 00:42:29,014
You can do a lot to stop.

552
00:42:29,594 --> 00:42:37,134
The pharmaceutical industry could petition the US to get more aggressive with people going over the border and buying cheaper generic drugs.

553
00:42:37,294 --> 00:42:38,334
Why do you think they don't then?

554
00:42:39,094 --> 00:42:44,094
Because I don't believe that politicians are interested in any of this crap.

555
00:42:45,694 --> 00:42:51,834
It's a big dramatic thing for someone smuggling fentanyl and to blow it up because you have another agenda.

556
00:42:51,834 --> 00:42:58,634
that you know they're not threatened by governments are dinosaurs they're not threatened by cruise

557
00:42:58,634 --> 00:43:02,834
ships they're not threatened by mexico they're not even threatened by the fentanyl they're

558
00:43:02,834 --> 00:43:07,374
threatened by getting voted out of office or something so if you show your strength and you

559
00:43:07,374 --> 00:43:12,094
find this little dramatic thing you can do to make an impression on people then they'll do it

560
00:43:12,094 --> 00:43:19,614
so a c-stead is just a kind of house so if i have my floating fentanyl lab maybe they'll go blow that

561
00:43:19,614 --> 00:43:26,794
up but if i have my floating stem cell service that's cheaper um off the coast of some city

562
00:43:26,794 --> 00:43:31,214
i don't think they're going to blow that up because cruise ships are already doing it island

563
00:43:31,214 --> 00:43:36,574
nations are already doing it i've just realized i don't know why i never thought this before but

564
00:43:36,574 --> 00:43:43,674
jeffrey epstein gave islands a really bad pr didn't he it's you know there's a few few of them

565
00:43:43,674 --> 00:43:49,774
now there are this island that island it's all like creating this sort of like story like you

566
00:43:49,774 --> 00:43:56,654
were saying that islands are secret places where bad things happen you know yeah and the there are

567
00:43:56,654 --> 00:44:07,274
um tens of millions of slaves being transported over the oceans if you if you feed your dog food

568
00:44:07,274 --> 00:44:13,094
if you feed your dog dog food, the fish in there was probably provided by slaves.

569
00:44:13,254 --> 00:44:14,994
The government doesn't get involved in that.

570
00:44:16,034 --> 00:44:24,234
The heavy metals, the rare earth minerals in our iPhones, dug often by slaves.

571
00:44:24,554 --> 00:44:25,754
The government doesn't get involved in that.

572
00:44:26,174 --> 00:44:30,294
There are so many things the government could be threatened by, and they are not.

573
00:44:30,934 --> 00:44:34,434
So if you just slowly scale up the same way cruise ships did,

574
00:44:34,434 --> 00:44:40,174
they don't respond to every little thing with just blowing it up. Sneaking fentanyl in,

575
00:44:40,574 --> 00:44:47,754
yeah, they'll blow you up. So this is the way all frontiers work. You're pushing the boundaries,

576
00:44:47,914 --> 00:44:51,574
you're pushing the edge, and you push things forward. And to say, I'm just afraid because

577
00:44:51,574 --> 00:44:57,374
they're going to blow me up. The way I know Seastead is succeeding is that the most common

578
00:44:57,374 --> 00:45:04,354
objection now is an argument against all attempts at freedom anywhere. So it's an argument against

579
00:45:04,354 --> 00:45:08,434
freedom itself we're so successful you have to fall back on well the state will just kill you

580
00:45:08,434 --> 00:45:15,074
well also what i've noticed because i for the first time recently i've noticed people on

581
00:45:15,074 --> 00:45:22,534
what i thought was my side have started um talking shit about the idea of free cities

582
00:45:22,534 --> 00:45:27,534
and i was surprised to begin with but when i've gone into i've realized

583
00:45:27,534 --> 00:45:34,554
what's going on is they have a default setting in which they don't they're not even aware of

584
00:45:34,554 --> 00:45:40,454
in their consciousness which is the state runs everything so so they're what they're the kind

585
00:45:40,454 --> 00:45:44,974
of argument they're falling back on is you're skirting the state and these are people who

586
00:45:44,974 --> 00:45:50,534
believe in freedom right i just think they've never once wondered whether there was something

587
00:45:50,534 --> 00:45:56,254
that wasn't state run right hence they hate they're not they're suspicious of the private sector in

588
00:45:56,254 --> 00:46:01,694
that sense but I've noticed it with a few people of some of them obviously quite socialist and

589
00:46:01,694 --> 00:46:06,394
you know tax the rich get the government to take money off the rich and give it to the poor that

590
00:46:06,394 --> 00:46:11,954
kind of thing but then some other people who are like you know these oligarchs they want to live

591
00:46:11,954 --> 00:46:18,414
outside the system or these people they want to live outside the system it's like yeah yeah you

592
00:46:18,414 --> 00:46:24,114
know and now what like because I would have been in that I would have classed myself as that five

593
00:46:24,114 --> 00:46:30,354
years ago probably that's not fair it's like and and there's a really that's a kind of

594
00:46:31,114 --> 00:46:36,414
there's a word for that where it's it's this hidden undercurrent right that you that you don't

595
00:46:36,414 --> 00:46:41,694
know that's there and it's it's bad it affects your whole life and i think maybe i i think

596
00:46:41,694 --> 00:46:51,154
that is turning there's more incidences of people um questioning that in not people like us just

597
00:46:51,154 --> 00:46:56,834
general people as they kind of butt up against the the state more and more and more in the UK

598
00:46:56,834 --> 00:47:03,674
it's because it's getting really really clownish what's going on you know you start thinking wait

599
00:47:03,674 --> 00:47:09,614
a minute do we is it what would life be like without this and then you realize well a lot of

600
00:47:09,614 --> 00:47:15,174
time life is without this it's only when I think about it like when I'm chopping wood in my woodshed

601
00:47:15,174 --> 00:47:17,534
on my land in the middle of nowhere,

602
00:47:18,434 --> 00:47:19,954
the state's not doing anything to me.

603
00:47:20,154 --> 00:47:20,414
Yeah.

604
00:47:20,654 --> 00:47:22,054
But when I start thinking about it

605
00:47:22,054 --> 00:47:23,894
and start actively interacting with it,

606
00:47:23,914 --> 00:47:25,414
it is, and it's a pain in the ass.

607
00:47:25,694 --> 00:47:27,314
And I do have to at some points.

608
00:47:27,534 --> 00:47:28,494
Don't have to think about it,

609
00:47:28,514 --> 00:47:29,874
but I do have to interact with it.

610
00:47:30,914 --> 00:47:32,294
But I don't want to.

611
00:47:32,794 --> 00:47:34,894
Yeah, I mean, we have made the stride

612
00:47:34,894 --> 00:47:36,854
from first they laugh at you,

613
00:47:37,014 --> 00:47:38,454
then they're threatened by you.

614
00:47:39,014 --> 00:47:40,654
Do you reckon we're at then they're threatened by you?

615
00:47:41,334 --> 00:47:43,174
The extent to which people are threatened

616
00:47:43,174 --> 00:47:44,334
simply by the idea.

617
00:47:45,174 --> 00:47:50,474
describing the idea to people that like to think of themselves as freedom loving

618
00:47:50,474 --> 00:47:53,154
and their resistance to it.

619
00:47:53,554 --> 00:47:55,374
And them saying, oh, the government will just get you.

620
00:47:55,534 --> 00:47:58,454
I think people love their paradigms.

621
00:47:59,054 --> 00:48:01,974
As someone who explains solutions to people,

622
00:48:01,974 --> 00:48:04,494
I've watched the disappointment in people's faces.

623
00:48:05,874 --> 00:48:08,594
And I've come to really contemplate this.

624
00:48:08,694 --> 00:48:10,334
I've been at this for 15 years.

625
00:48:10,334 --> 00:48:17,054
and it's like what is it that's deflating you that i when i just describe how something works

626
00:48:17,054 --> 00:48:21,954
and the solution you want is already here it's very interesting come on so what is it i didn't

627
00:48:21,954 --> 00:48:28,434
quite get that well what's the bit that makes them deflated well so concrete examples you know

628
00:48:28,434 --> 00:48:35,174
um you're gonna environmentalists come at me hard you're gonna destroy the ocean you're you're

629
00:48:35,174 --> 00:48:36,754
you're going to hurt the environment of the ocean.

630
00:48:36,934 --> 00:48:40,994
And then I explain why Grant's deepwater sea pod

631
00:48:40,994 --> 00:48:43,174
is eco-restorative.

632
00:48:43,254 --> 00:48:44,634
It increases the life on the ocean.

633
00:48:44,754 --> 00:48:45,834
It grows a coral reef.

634
00:48:48,254 --> 00:48:50,114
The engineer, to quote him, says,

635
00:48:50,214 --> 00:48:52,374
you can't be an environmentalist if you live on land

636
00:48:52,374 --> 00:48:53,614
because every sea sted you build

637
00:48:53,614 --> 00:48:55,214
will increase the amount of life on the ocean.

638
00:48:55,854 --> 00:48:57,054
And by the way, here's a video.

639
00:48:58,694 --> 00:49:00,114
But where does that come from?

640
00:49:00,214 --> 00:49:02,474
And then I'll watch them be like deflated and upset.

641
00:49:02,694 --> 00:49:04,494
And then they switch and try to find something else.

642
00:49:04,594 --> 00:49:05,114
Yeah, but why?

643
00:49:05,174 --> 00:49:07,074
Why are they trying to pull it down?

644
00:49:07,914 --> 00:49:08,514
Why not?

645
00:49:08,714 --> 00:49:11,434
Because especially in America, you're normally like, yay, go for it.

646
00:49:11,534 --> 00:49:12,994
People are attached to being angry.

647
00:49:13,614 --> 00:49:14,194
You think so?

648
00:49:14,254 --> 00:49:14,874
I think so.

649
00:49:15,114 --> 00:49:21,154
And the same thing goes for the most aggressive anarcho-capitalist.

650
00:49:22,814 --> 00:49:24,474
Who'll be making a really strong point,

651
00:49:24,494 --> 00:49:27,314
and they love the fact that they can make their strong point and be frustrated.

652
00:49:27,834 --> 00:49:30,054
And I'll say cruise ships, and they'll say, that's ridiculous.

653
00:49:30,214 --> 00:49:32,774
And then I'll explain it to them, and then I watch them kind of get deflated.

654
00:49:32,774 --> 00:49:39,734
it just happened um the cruise ships is such a great example yeah honestly do you know what

655
00:49:39,734 --> 00:49:46,074
do you know where it's very powerful in the intelligentsia amongst the intelligentsia if

656
00:49:46,074 --> 00:49:54,334
you if you veer into that world of well-known academics who who talk about economics or who

657
00:49:54,334 --> 00:50:09,772
talk about you know with with absolute authority i think they missed that idea i noticed it with I not gonna say who but I noticed it with a few people I spoken to who are well known you know well yeah famous freedom lover

658
00:50:09,772 --> 00:50:13,672
types yeah who but but they seem to be quite resolute about their beliefs

659
00:50:13,672 --> 00:50:16,272
actually they seem to be very I don't know whether this is a function of

660
00:50:16,272 --> 00:50:19,772
getting well known but they become quite set in their way right right because

661
00:50:19,772 --> 00:50:24,552
you're publicly known as representing something it becomes your identity now

662
00:50:24,552 --> 00:50:27,992
Now you can't admit that your belief system is wrong publicly.

663
00:50:28,292 --> 00:50:28,772
Why not though?

664
00:50:29,172 --> 00:50:31,132
I think that's what I would say.

665
00:50:31,312 --> 00:50:33,092
That's what gives me absolute freedom.

666
00:50:33,572 --> 00:50:41,492
I'm absolutely happy for you to tell me now that, for example, the whole cruise ship analogy is bullshit.

667
00:50:41,992 --> 00:50:44,432
And if you can convince me, I'll be like, I was a mug.

668
00:50:44,912 --> 00:50:45,072
Yeah.

669
00:50:45,272 --> 00:50:45,932
I was a mug.

670
00:50:46,752 --> 00:50:46,892
Yeah.

671
00:50:46,892 --> 00:50:48,152
But why wouldn't you do that?

672
00:50:48,232 --> 00:50:49,532
Because that, I don't know.

673
00:50:49,692 --> 00:50:51,592
Do people respect that less, do you think?

674
00:50:51,592 --> 00:50:56,692
do you think honestly people respect that less than me sticking to my guns and arguing my point

675
00:50:56,692 --> 00:51:02,472
no i respect you tremendously yeah no no but you do but what about like what about the 80 percent

676
00:51:02,472 --> 00:51:07,932
of the world that's the normies do they see that as a well this guy don't really know what he's

677
00:51:07,932 --> 00:51:12,912
talking about look he's changing his mind isn't it no yeah they do they they admire conviction

678
00:51:12,912 --> 00:51:18,812
they you know there's also just like a defensiveness it's kind of maybe it's a loss of

679
00:51:18,812 --> 00:51:21,452
status or humiliating to admit you've been wrong your whole life.

680
00:51:21,652 --> 00:51:24,532
But if you delight in discovering something new.

681
00:51:24,792 --> 00:51:25,972
Yeah, that's what it is.

682
00:51:26,132 --> 00:51:26,372
Yeah.

683
00:51:26,792 --> 00:51:30,412
But that's a defense mechanism against looking stupid.

684
00:51:31,212 --> 00:51:34,072
All you have to do is market yourself as someone that wants the truth.

685
00:51:35,212 --> 00:51:35,332
Yeah.

686
00:51:35,992 --> 00:51:38,332
But I thought that's what they did.

687
00:51:38,332 --> 00:51:43,352
Your average well-known freedom lover is out there looking for freedom, right?

688
00:51:43,812 --> 00:51:43,972
Yeah.

689
00:51:43,972 --> 00:51:58,692
So my maritime attorney and I just went to, we're invited to speak in Toronto and make a presentation to a convention of maritime attorneys in Canada.

690
00:52:00,492 --> 00:52:02,452
Heads of firms, big deal guys.

691
00:52:02,552 --> 00:52:04,832
And I show the thing, this is what I want to do.

692
00:52:05,012 --> 00:52:06,252
I want to flag Seasteads.

693
00:52:06,312 --> 00:52:08,252
I want a classification society.

694
00:52:08,412 --> 00:52:09,392
I want it to be insured.

695
00:52:09,852 --> 00:52:10,672
And I want it to be here.

696
00:52:10,772 --> 00:52:11,912
And this is exactly what we're doing.

697
00:52:12,012 --> 00:52:13,072
Here's why we're doing it.

698
00:52:13,072 --> 00:52:19,392
We want startup societies. And I ended it with, if this is stupid, if we are wrong,

699
00:52:20,112 --> 00:52:27,072
I need to know now because I can't commit like donor money to this if my theory is wrong. So let

700
00:52:27,072 --> 00:52:33,592
me have it. Be as hard on me as you want. I was inviting the experts to tell me what I have wrong.

701
00:52:33,632 --> 00:52:36,952
And of course, I need my maritime attorney with me. He serves on my board for free

702
00:52:36,952 --> 00:52:42,832
to translate between these guys. And there were questions, there was things going on.

703
00:52:42,832 --> 00:52:49,072
There was some moment when we were at, we all sat down to lunch and attorneys liked to debate with each other.

704
00:52:49,872 --> 00:53:00,272
And pretty much the top guy there sits down across the table with all these attorneys at this big round table and says, you know, I think I disagree with you because, you know, if you flag with Panama, you're under the jurisdiction of Panama.

705
00:53:01,372 --> 00:53:05,572
And I said, OK, here's my chance to find out if I'm full of crap.

706
00:53:05,572 --> 00:53:14,272
yeah let me wonder so what let me have a go first because i i'm i'm your i'm i'm your student

707
00:53:14,272 --> 00:53:20,552
and i want to know whether i could answer this right so he's saying um wherever i go i'm under

708
00:53:20,552 --> 00:53:26,432
the flag of panama right but why is that a bad thing firstly like i want to be under panama right

709
00:53:26,432 --> 00:53:34,892
i've chosen that yeah but a as as he understands a maritime flag that looks like a territorial flag

710
00:53:34,892 --> 00:53:39,052
of Panama is a different legal entity with a different set of rules. So even though the flags

711
00:53:39,052 --> 00:53:45,372
are identical, there's different rules. Okay. So my rules are based on a free market of regulations.

712
00:53:45,692 --> 00:53:52,632
Yes. So, um, which I want to enforce correctly because it's in my best interest.

713
00:53:53,852 --> 00:54:02,652
Yes. The, the, the, the, the flagging registry is willing to put it's the Panama's flag on your ship,

714
00:54:02,652 --> 00:54:08,032
trusting that you're now going to properly govern in a way that doesn't embarrass the

715
00:54:08,032 --> 00:54:10,232
flagging registry and doesn't get them in trouble with Panama.

716
00:54:10,512 --> 00:54:10,732
Yes.

717
00:54:10,792 --> 00:54:12,992
So we already have this reputational thing.

718
00:54:13,112 --> 00:54:14,492
So what was his problem with that, though?

719
00:54:14,812 --> 00:54:19,172
So he's thinking like a lawyer, like officially, right?

720
00:54:19,772 --> 00:54:23,232
But then I say, ah, but that's true.

721
00:54:23,792 --> 00:54:27,692
Officially, if you're flagged under the Bahamas, you're under the Bahamas rules.

722
00:54:27,692 --> 00:54:49,152
But if I'm on my Panama cruise ship and I'm off the coast of the Bahamas and a fist fight breaks out between two drunks and an old lady caught in the mayhem has a heart attack and collapses, are you calling 911 back to Panama?

723
00:54:49,152 --> 00:54:55,352
You got to deal with that on the ship and like the law understands this that that ships have to be

724
00:54:56,792 --> 00:54:58,792
functionally self-governing

725
00:54:59,152 --> 00:55:05,072
And a captain as you understand is fundamentally a dictator. He has tremendous power

726
00:55:05,072 --> 00:55:11,492
So according to maritime law the captain has the ability to resolve that right to what degree?

727
00:55:12,632 --> 00:55:16,172
Incarceration or what he can lock you in the brig. He can you know

728
00:55:16,172 --> 00:55:18,812
Now, traditionally, he'd make you walk the plank.

729
00:55:18,932 --> 00:55:19,812
He'd keel hole you.

730
00:55:19,932 --> 00:55:20,432
He'd beat you.

731
00:55:20,592 --> 00:55:24,372
No, but now, what can he get sued for, for example?

732
00:55:24,572 --> 00:55:28,292
Obviously, he can, like, say these people are American citizens, right?

733
00:55:29,132 --> 00:55:30,812
Now it gets really complicated.

734
00:55:30,812 --> 00:55:33,292
So you have all these conflicting jurisdictions.

735
00:55:33,292 --> 00:55:35,712
You have the flag of Panama.

736
00:55:35,972 --> 00:55:38,672
You have it in the territorial waters of the Bahamas.

737
00:55:39,212 --> 00:55:43,512
One of the persons in the fight is from China.

738
00:55:43,672 --> 00:55:45,152
The other one is from the U.S.

739
00:55:45,572 --> 00:55:50,572
Each of them takes a different, the U.S. is much more aggressive in claiming jurisdiction over its citizens.

740
00:55:51,092 --> 00:55:52,432
So how do you resolve that?

741
00:55:52,512 --> 00:55:53,532
What is the legal thing?

742
00:55:53,932 --> 00:55:56,172
So this is where people have to open their minds.

743
00:55:56,172 --> 00:56:09,732
The fact that it's so complex and there's all these different overlapping jurisdictions over different people and different incidents, and yet it all works out better than your government, is exactly what you want.

744
00:56:09,732 --> 00:56:16,052
You want it to be so complex, just like the technology we're using, but a market continually improves it.

745
00:56:16,492 --> 00:56:20,792
And you want all these people incentivized to find the best way to resolve this issue.

746
00:56:21,332 --> 00:56:23,572
So this captain, he can be fired.

747
00:56:23,792 --> 00:56:25,712
Insurance companies are going to get involved.

748
00:56:26,272 --> 00:56:29,372
The medical services of that old lady who has a heart attack.

749
00:56:29,812 --> 00:56:31,732
There's different lawyers in different jurisdictions.

750
00:56:32,392 --> 00:56:39,172
It's a completely anarchist, polycentric system that what I just described happens every day.

751
00:56:39,172 --> 00:56:41,092
elderly people are on cruise ships everywhere.

752
00:56:41,472 --> 00:56:42,892
Population larger than Texas.

753
00:56:43,312 --> 00:56:44,872
Population larger than Taiwan

754
00:56:44,872 --> 00:56:46,792
boards cruise ships every year.

755
00:56:47,392 --> 00:56:48,512
And all of this happens.

756
00:56:48,632 --> 00:56:49,272
There's crimes.

757
00:56:49,752 --> 00:56:50,992
There's sexual assaults.

758
00:56:51,612 --> 00:56:52,892
There's people have heart attacks.

759
00:56:53,692 --> 00:56:55,852
And these cruise ships need to not go out of business.

760
00:56:56,172 --> 00:56:58,372
So over time, they've worked all this out.

761
00:56:58,932 --> 00:56:59,732
Come on, what is it then?

762
00:57:00,772 --> 00:57:02,872
Use the example of the Chinese guy

763
00:57:02,872 --> 00:57:05,152
fighting the American and the woman having a heart attack.

764
00:57:05,652 --> 00:57:07,632
How the hell do you resolve that if they're all from...

765
00:57:07,632 --> 00:57:08,712
The answer is I don't know.

766
00:57:08,712 --> 00:57:10,992
that's where you want to be

767
00:57:10,992 --> 00:57:13,652
you mean the market

768
00:57:13,652 --> 00:57:14,392
resolves there

769
00:57:14,392 --> 00:57:17,832
the market has resolved this over time

770
00:57:17,832 --> 00:57:19,272
and has the systems in place

771
00:57:19,272 --> 00:57:20,572
to deal with all this

772
00:57:20,572 --> 00:57:23,272
and it's immensely complex

773
00:57:23,272 --> 00:57:24,612
and when you say

774
00:57:24,612 --> 00:57:27,232
well how does that get resolved on land

775
00:57:27,232 --> 00:57:28,512
oh the government fixes it

776
00:57:28,512 --> 00:57:29,912
that's not an answer

777
00:57:29,912 --> 00:57:31,732
it's the same as saying

778
00:57:31,732 --> 00:57:33,232
well how did the eye evolve

779
00:57:33,232 --> 00:57:34,132
well God did it

780
00:57:34,132 --> 00:57:37,692
it's a secular form of creationism

781
00:57:37,692 --> 00:57:45,492
um these things are uh evolved from the bottom up and intersect and there's there's there's uh

782
00:57:45,492 --> 00:57:50,372
evolution among all these things including the rules and it's already emerging in the fluid

783
00:57:50,372 --> 00:57:56,552
market of the sea but so you just don't know what the rules are in that specific no i'm not a i'm

784
00:57:56,552 --> 00:58:00,432
not a well can you get what so what i'm just trying to understand what it could be because

785
00:58:00,432 --> 00:58:05,632
the way you describe it you said it just has to be complex that that that makes me a bit suspicious

786
00:58:05,632 --> 00:58:06,632
It has to be decentralized.

787
00:58:06,632 --> 00:58:07,632
Right.

788
00:58:07,632 --> 00:58:09,632
It has to be decentralized and developed over time.

789
00:58:09,632 --> 00:58:25,730
So it might be resolved with a bit of litigation some criminal thing but When you get on the ship you have to sign a contract saying i agree to private arbitration of my disputes right nobody reads the contract right yeah and then some and then you have

790
00:58:25,730 --> 00:58:34,130
situations where uh the u.s might say we're not allowing that we will intervene um the the the

791
00:58:34,130 --> 00:58:43,010
ships of the world all realize that going through um the governments is really expensive and they

792
00:58:43,010 --> 00:58:44,250
They want to resolve things quickly.

793
00:58:46,350 --> 00:58:51,850
So they have systems to resolve things in courts and Lloyd's of London and insurance.

794
00:58:53,070 --> 00:59:00,110
One of my favorite examples is, you know, as a matter of fact, I talked about it in my talk last year.

795
00:59:00,490 --> 00:59:04,510
If a ship blows up at sea and catches fire, someone gets third degree burns.

796
00:59:05,110 --> 00:59:06,090
Well, how does that resolve?

797
00:59:06,270 --> 00:59:07,410
It's out in the middle of the sea.

798
00:59:07,490 --> 00:59:08,890
This guy lives in this country.

799
00:59:09,630 --> 00:59:11,310
It's flagged under something else.

800
00:59:11,310 --> 00:59:18,110
there's insurance for that and all this. The anarchy already exists among international

801
00:59:18,110 --> 00:59:23,050
businesses. Anarcho-capitalism, they can't go to their various governments that's going to take

802
00:59:23,050 --> 00:59:27,710
years and cost millions. So they have a system of rules they've developed amongst themselves,

803
00:59:27,910 --> 00:59:33,730
including courts and trials, and most of it gets resolved without ever going to court.

804
00:59:33,730 --> 00:59:40,310
in that case that would probably involve potentially a criminal lawsuit against

805
00:59:40,310 --> 00:59:47,770
the the ship yeah and a payoff to the victim right yeah that's what it would be right yeah

806
00:59:47,770 --> 00:59:55,030
so like the law of salvage has been in existence since before the ancient greeks

807
00:59:55,030 --> 01:00:00,990
um which is i mean it's recognized over two-thirds of the earth's surface which

808
01:00:00,990 --> 01:00:08,870
if a ship is in peril and it's sinking and the ship is worth $100 million,

809
01:00:09,730 --> 01:00:19,290
you have a market of salvers out there that are all racing to be the first ones to get their line

810
01:00:19,290 --> 01:00:24,750
on that ship. And then they can claim it and say, without any pre-existing contract,

811
01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:29,210
and they can claim it and say, I got my line in it. I'm in charge of saving these people.

812
01:00:29,210 --> 01:00:36,030
and the other ones hang back and wait really yeah and then he has and then those guys have to upright

813
01:00:36,030 --> 01:00:43,430
that ship set it aright blah blah blah blah tow it to to to land risking their lives well and it's

814
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:47,990
a first-come first-served basis i suppose i can understand why that would be because it has to be

815
01:00:47,990 --> 01:00:55,090
fast but that might not be the best person for the job might it no maybe not but then if there's

816
01:00:55,090 --> 01:01:00,650
rules by which it's determined, okay, I'm having a hard time with this. I got to call in another

817
01:01:00,650 --> 01:01:05,250
surrounding guy to help me. Well, how do we choose the second guy? There's a lot of money at stake.

818
01:01:05,930 --> 01:01:13,230
Okay. So now you have to call in a second guy. And now two different salving companies with nine

819
01:01:13,230 --> 01:01:18,750
waiting in the wings have now been involved in saving the ship. Okay. Maybe nobody dies. Maybe

820
01:01:18,750 --> 01:01:25,370
there's some damage, but now at tremendous expense of those companies, they tow this thing to land,

821
01:01:25,610 --> 01:01:32,070
save the property, and save a hundred million dollar ship from sinking and all that cargo

822
01:01:32,070 --> 01:01:38,150
aboard. Ship owner then says, you know, I just don't have the money to pay you guys.

823
01:01:39,010 --> 01:01:45,490
I mean, this will cost the salvers millions to do this. And so it's like the salvers say,

824
01:01:45,490 --> 01:01:54,790
okay, great. That means I get 10% of the ship. And then the ship owner will say, well, no,

825
01:01:54,850 --> 01:02:01,930
you get 7% of the ship because there was this much peril and this much risk, and this is the cost.

826
01:02:01,990 --> 01:02:06,410
And they say, no, actually, I think your cargo is worth about this much. Then the other salver says,

827
01:02:06,650 --> 01:02:11,550
well, we've got to split it amongst ourselves. I did 3% of the risk. You did 2%. I did this.

828
01:02:11,550 --> 01:02:17,630
governments are never called in on any of this. I'll tell you what, in two-thirds of cases,

829
01:02:18,370 --> 01:02:23,670
actually, I think it's three-quarters of cases, these disputes are resolved without ever going

830
01:02:23,670 --> 01:02:29,370
to litigation because everybody has an incentive to resolve these things fast, get everybody paid,

831
01:02:29,870 --> 01:02:33,370
transfer the percentages of ownership, and move on to doing business, right?

832
01:02:33,850 --> 01:02:37,370
Well, in either a third or a quarter of cases, it's not resolved.

833
01:02:37,370 --> 01:02:44,330
so then they go to lloyd's of london and they say okay this is the argument this is what happened

834
01:02:44,330 --> 01:02:49,030
here's the recording of what happened this guy got involved then and we disagree i i think i get

835
01:02:49,030 --> 01:02:53,390
seven percent of the ship they think i get ten percent of the ship lloyd's issues are ruling

836
01:02:53,390 --> 01:03:00,750
fast based on what based on rules evolved over time and the judges are specialists in this kind

837
01:03:00,750 --> 01:03:04,670
of thing so this is what kind of court's that what's that called it's just a free market court

838
01:03:04,670 --> 01:03:11,170
Really? Yeah. So the shipping companies just fund this somehow?

839
01:03:11,490 --> 01:03:23,530
Yeah, because they need stable rules. And the insurance companies and the risk management people, you need to move. 90% of international trade goes across the ocean. They need to develop all these rules.

840
01:03:23,970 --> 01:03:27,830
Do you think the land-based governments will ever try and get a piece of that?

841
01:03:27,830 --> 01:03:32,970
Well, they sort of do, and in some ways they do. But this has been going on for centuries.

842
01:03:32,970 --> 01:03:44,810
Yeah, I know. But we're in a digital age now. I think it's far easier to infiltrate something like that now than, do you know what I mean? We're connected. There's this digital world that connects things really quickly.

843
01:03:44,810 --> 01:04:02,090
But the government doesn't want to run the rules. It wants to tax you when you deliver to their country. So the governments are getting paid tariffs and all this sort of stuff. But the businessmen have to work this all out. Here's the best part of my story. Lloyd's has no enforcement mechanism.

844
01:04:02,970 --> 01:04:05,290
They can't force you to follow their rulings.

845
01:04:05,970 --> 01:04:09,630
All they have is their reputation for giving sound rulings.

846
01:04:10,230 --> 01:04:12,910
And all these conflicting parties are like,

847
01:04:12,990 --> 01:04:15,590
I don't want to be known as the guy who defies Roy Lloyd's ruling.

848
01:04:15,810 --> 01:04:17,850
You are free to say, you know what, screw them.

849
01:04:17,890 --> 01:04:18,850
I'm not paying them anything.

850
01:04:18,850 --> 01:04:19,890
I didn't know that.

851
01:04:19,990 --> 01:04:25,530
And then everybody learns, holy cow, that ship owner won't even pay out.

852
01:04:25,970 --> 01:04:27,170
Let's not do business with that guy.

853
01:04:27,190 --> 01:04:27,790
It's the proper free market.

854
01:04:28,150 --> 01:04:28,630
Absolutely.

855
01:04:29,450 --> 01:04:29,930
Absolutely.

856
01:04:30,170 --> 01:04:32,530
This is completely flourishing on the sea.

857
01:04:32,970 --> 01:04:34,690
And has been for like hundreds of years.

858
01:04:34,830 --> 01:04:35,890
Yeah, hundreds of years.

859
01:04:36,310 --> 01:04:38,590
And it's really flourishing now.

860
01:04:38,990 --> 01:04:41,270
Because now you have...

861
01:04:41,270 --> 01:04:42,130
And wait a minute.

862
01:04:42,130 --> 01:04:44,310
And the reason it's...

863
01:04:44,310 --> 01:04:47,010
Did it ever flourish on the earth, on the land?

864
01:04:47,190 --> 01:04:52,130
And if it did, why did it trend towards the...

865
01:04:52,130 --> 01:04:55,310
Maybe just because you can't...

866
01:04:55,310 --> 01:04:55,410
Because...

867
01:04:55,410 --> 01:04:56,610
Because it's hard to attack a ship

868
01:04:56,610 --> 01:04:59,410
or it's easy to attack a stationary thing.

869
01:04:59,490 --> 01:05:00,290
Is it something to do with that?

870
01:05:00,290 --> 01:05:07,170
fundamentally it's because founding civilization on land gives rise to a monopoly a military

871
01:05:07,170 --> 01:05:13,010
monopoly yeah so because it can't move because it can't move and you can't escape you can't grow

872
01:05:13,010 --> 01:05:19,750
your food anywhere else all right so but on a fluid everything is moving around it's the same

873
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:23,970
reason the government has trouble getting control when you think about it when you think about

874
01:05:23,970 --> 01:05:31,330
civilization and when you think about you know if you zoom out millions of years space travel

875
01:05:31,330 --> 01:05:38,750
is going to be the perfect way of life isn't it or space once we once we have the option to move

876
01:05:38,750 --> 01:05:44,910
around space quickly we're going this is going to be a civilizational like it's going to be a

877
01:05:44,910 --> 01:05:51,290
renaissance of civilization because it's going to be seasteading 10.0 it's going to be planets

878
01:05:51,290 --> 01:05:53,530
that do what seasteads do.

879
01:05:55,610 --> 01:05:56,390
Isn't it?

880
01:05:56,850 --> 01:05:57,210
Yes.

881
01:05:58,090 --> 01:06:01,030
Peter Diamandis selling the idea of space

882
01:06:01,030 --> 01:06:04,250
talks about how there'll be variation

883
01:06:04,250 --> 01:06:06,710
and selection among different governance systems

884
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:08,830
where we'll discover different ways

885
01:06:08,830 --> 01:06:10,730
of governing ourselves by spaceships

886
01:06:10,730 --> 01:06:12,870
peeling off and competing with each other

887
01:06:12,870 --> 01:06:14,890
in the fluid market of space.

888
01:06:15,470 --> 01:06:16,930
You know what would really be cool?

889
01:06:16,990 --> 01:06:18,550
If we could go out into space

890
01:06:18,550 --> 01:06:21,110
and discover a planet that's not radioactive

891
01:06:21,110 --> 01:06:24,810
that already has an atmosphere, that already has trees,

892
01:06:24,810 --> 01:06:28,530
that's really cheap, where we can do all this now,

893
01:06:29,090 --> 01:06:30,450
that's called planet ocean.

894
01:06:30,610 --> 01:06:31,290
We're on it.

895
01:06:31,610 --> 01:06:33,970
So everything he's talking about doing in space

896
01:06:33,970 --> 01:06:35,590
is already occurring on the oceans.

897
01:06:35,590 --> 01:06:37,430
I didn't mean it as a...

898
01:06:37,430 --> 01:06:39,190
I'm not...

899
01:06:39,190 --> 01:06:39,990
I'm just thinking...

900
01:06:40,008 --> 01:06:42,788
about the theory of governance.

901
01:06:43,788 --> 01:06:47,528
And if you really believe in freedom and free markets,

902
01:06:47,948 --> 01:06:49,328
space is where it's going to happen.

903
01:06:50,648 --> 01:06:52,508
Because it's happening on sea,

904
01:06:52,608 --> 01:06:54,648
but even sea has a limitation.

905
01:06:54,908 --> 01:06:56,788
It's like a two-dimensional place.

906
01:06:57,668 --> 01:06:58,108
It's not.

907
01:06:58,668 --> 01:07:01,268
All right, but it's kind of a two-dimensional place.

908
01:07:02,848 --> 01:07:04,288
That's the other thing about it.

909
01:07:04,928 --> 01:07:06,488
It's also a finite resource.

910
01:07:06,648 --> 01:07:07,988
I know that sounds a bit weird,

911
01:07:07,988 --> 01:07:09,388
but it is compared to space.

912
01:07:09,388 --> 01:07:15,188
99 of the living space on this planet is in the oceans yeah yeah true and but but i mean it is

913
01:07:15,188 --> 01:07:21,348
still a finite space it's easy to claim it's easy to claim sea very difficult to claim the universe

914
01:07:21,348 --> 01:07:28,208
right and it's hard to claim the sea because i mean it you can go down into the sea that can all

915
01:07:28,208 --> 01:07:36,068
be explored yeah yeah for sure yeah i mean i just don't know i think that throws up problems with

916
01:07:36,068 --> 01:07:43,628
habitation and people deciding i i suppose it doesn't if you can create a massive dome

917
01:07:43,628 --> 01:07:49,308
the size of yeah you know that looks like you know but it's dark when does space become easier

918
01:07:49,308 --> 01:07:54,228
well not necessarily easier but um i think um

919
01:07:54,228 --> 01:08:00,788
easier i don't know the oceans are are going to be easier for so long

920
01:08:00,788 --> 01:08:03,228
Yeah, possibly.

921
01:08:03,448 --> 01:08:06,088
Including going down and discovering intelligent life.

922
01:08:08,888 --> 01:08:16,208
I mean, people want to go to asteroids to get rare earth minerals.

923
01:08:16,788 --> 01:08:22,548
There are nodules of rare earth minerals on the ocean floor.

924
01:08:22,748 --> 01:08:23,828
And you have to deal with the pressure.

925
01:08:23,828 --> 01:08:29,968
And there are already almost everything people talk about, about space, is already in the oceans.

926
01:08:29,968 --> 01:08:36,688
including freedom and emergent governance and we're going to populate the oceans long before

927
01:08:36,688 --> 01:08:42,008
we do populate space at all yeah i agree with that but i do think that

928
01:08:42,008 --> 01:08:51,628
space represents a freer frontier than the sea on paper and it might only be a small amount but it

929
01:08:51,628 --> 01:08:58,248
is just simply because it's bigger faster i agree there's all kinds of problems you're going to deal

930
01:08:58,248 --> 01:09:03,088
with but they're just tech they're just a function of technology that an unbelievable expense and

931
01:09:03,088 --> 01:09:09,888
resources you know well yeah but so maybe i mean how do we know in 100 years the cost of everything

932
01:09:09,888 --> 01:09:17,628
might have trended to almost zero on account of ai building robots indefinitely at marginal

933
01:09:17,628 --> 01:09:24,428
marginally smaller costs so that we suddenly robots are free um robots are building robots

934
01:09:24,428 --> 01:09:28,548
robots are building this you know i mean i i think if you go far enough into the future i think that

935
01:09:28,548 --> 01:09:36,188
that does actually happen i think i think the cost of capital the cost of of resources trends to zero

936
01:09:36,188 --> 01:09:43,668
because the cost of of machines trends to zero and they can extract resources and the resources run

937
01:09:43,668 --> 01:09:49,568
the machines and the machines create more machines and then you know that's obviously going to happen

938
01:09:49,568 --> 01:09:55,608
And that's when I think space becomes much more of a reality because, and the sea, I don't know.

939
01:09:55,708 --> 01:09:57,888
I think if you were given the choice, what would you do?

940
01:09:57,888 --> 01:10:03,608
Say you had the choice between creating a planet or creating an undersea kingdom.

941
01:10:04,428 --> 01:10:05,568
You know, what would you do?

942
01:10:05,648 --> 01:10:07,168
I think you'd go for the undersea kingdom.

943
01:10:07,328 --> 01:10:11,448
I'd be tempted to say, all right, let's make a planet because that's more interesting.

944
01:10:12,108 --> 01:10:14,988
So we have two thirds of this planet right here.

945
01:10:14,988 --> 01:10:17,328
and

946
01:10:17,328 --> 01:10:20,528
there's so many things to

947
01:10:20,528 --> 01:10:22,768
say about this I mean I could just

948
01:10:22,768 --> 01:10:24,408
shit all over space

949
01:10:24,408 --> 01:10:26,808
why don't I just talk about

950
01:10:26,808 --> 01:10:29,168
why I think people care about space

951
01:10:29,168 --> 01:10:30,948
I think

952
01:10:30,948 --> 01:10:31,968
satellites are great

953
01:10:31,968 --> 01:10:33,828
I think all that stuff is great

954
01:10:33,828 --> 01:10:36,808
but it's because of statism

955
01:10:36,808 --> 01:10:38,348
because you were brainwashed as a kid

956
01:10:38,348 --> 01:10:40,688
because the cold war between the US

957
01:10:40,688 --> 01:10:41,408
and the USSR

958
01:10:41,408 --> 01:10:44,348
scared the hell out of people when

959
01:10:44,348 --> 01:10:49,168
the free world was terrified when all of a sudden the USSR had a satellite.

960
01:10:49,888 --> 01:10:55,308
So now we need to prove that in a dick measuring contest that we can get to the moon before

961
01:10:55,308 --> 01:10:55,688
they do.

962
01:10:55,748 --> 01:10:57,008
We've got to do this in 10 years.

963
01:10:58,208 --> 01:11:03,388
Unbelievable propaganda into the brains of young children, imagining what it's going to

964
01:11:03,388 --> 01:11:04,388
be like in space.

965
01:11:04,448 --> 01:11:08,788
And what a magical place, this dark place with no oxygen.

966
01:11:09,328 --> 01:11:10,868
It's nothing but blackness.

967
01:11:10,868 --> 01:11:17,188
And wouldn't it be amazing to live on a planet with no atmosphere and radioactive red sand and red rocks?

968
01:11:17,928 --> 01:11:20,448
They managed to convince children.

969
01:11:20,988 --> 01:11:33,548
Once we were on the moon, little Jeff Bezos and little Elon Musk, who internalized all this statist propaganda, were saying, man, by the time I'm 50, we're going to be on Mars.

970
01:11:33,768 --> 01:11:35,088
It's going to be so cool.

971
01:11:35,108 --> 01:11:36,628
It's going to be just like Star Trek.

972
01:11:37,108 --> 01:11:40,128
And then they're growing up and they're growing up with their dreams.

973
01:11:40,128 --> 01:11:45,068
they're looking up at the vast blackness of nothingness of space, which is the most depressing

974
01:11:45,068 --> 01:11:49,728
anti-life thing you can imagine. And they're imagining it's paradise out there. And then

975
01:11:49,728 --> 01:11:52,728
they grow up and they become billionaires and they're mad that their childhood dreams never

976
01:11:52,728 --> 01:11:58,308
came true. So now they're saying, we got to go to Mars. We got to go out there among the stars.

977
01:11:58,788 --> 01:12:02,568
You know, Mr. Musk keeps repeating that. Dude, we're already among the stars.

978
01:12:03,608 --> 01:12:08,568
We're the only planet where no matter what distance you look at it, it's blue.

979
01:12:09,328 --> 01:12:13,208
You go far out, you go close, you don't see green, you don't see brown, you see blue.

980
01:12:13,548 --> 01:12:15,468
We are living on planet ocean.

981
01:12:16,288 --> 01:12:18,308
And we're such a narrow-minded little ape.

982
01:12:19,368 --> 01:12:20,088
What is it?

983
01:12:20,108 --> 01:12:21,428
An alien looks at our planet.

984
01:12:21,748 --> 01:12:23,568
It's a vast three-dimensional space.

985
01:12:24,308 --> 01:12:25,048
It's space.

986
01:12:26,428 --> 01:12:30,168
Dolphins think of it as a three-dimensional space, up, down, all over the place.

987
01:12:30,568 --> 01:12:32,208
Intelligent mammals don't think of it.

988
01:12:32,888 --> 01:12:38,168
And this land ape is living on less than a third of it.

989
01:12:38,568 --> 01:12:42,148
where there's certain mountains that come up above the ocean,

990
01:12:42,428 --> 01:12:44,848
certain seamounts that come so high above the ocean

991
01:12:44,848 --> 01:12:46,388
that they break the surface,

992
01:12:47,108 --> 01:12:50,928
and they're sticking up above the fundamental nature of the planet,

993
01:12:51,028 --> 01:12:52,168
which is aqueous.

994
01:12:52,828 --> 01:12:56,088
And the land ape lives on his flat little flat land

995
01:12:56,088 --> 01:12:58,488
and thinks that's what reality is,

996
01:12:58,488 --> 01:13:01,688
and he's looking for some place to pursue his dreams,

997
01:13:02,388 --> 01:13:04,428
and he's made sky gods.

998
01:13:04,568 --> 01:13:06,368
So he's looking up at the sky, and he's thinking,

999
01:13:06,368 --> 01:13:11,688
imagine what a dreamy, amazing place it is out there. I wonder if there's intelligent life out

1000
01:13:11,688 --> 01:13:17,868
there. There's intelligent life down below. It's called the giant squids. It's the cephalopods.

1001
01:13:18,828 --> 01:13:23,128
It's one of the places where evolution put everything into brains. Talk about alien

1002
01:13:23,128 --> 01:13:30,148
intelligence. And we don't understand those things. A colossal squid or a giant squid has

1003
01:13:30,148 --> 01:13:35,028
never been recovered alive. They've only been found dead. And they have big brains and they

1004
01:13:35,028 --> 01:13:41,348
have tentacles that manipulate things in the deep oceans. We don't have, we're not interested,

1005
01:13:41,708 --> 01:13:47,028
we're not, if we've discovered that on another planet, we'd say, oh my God, it's intelligent life.

1006
01:13:47,028 --> 01:13:51,448
But we ignore it because it's all in the ocean. And Robert Ballard talks about this. We think

1007
01:13:51,448 --> 01:13:55,768
hell is down. We look down and say, there's nothing down there. We have to go up. We have

1008
01:13:55,768 --> 01:14:01,548
to go up. And there's nothing out there. It's literally empty. And the amount of resources

1009
01:14:01,548 --> 01:14:11,008
and expense you have to bring to create a colony on Mars is immense. So I appreciate, yes, maybe

1010
01:14:11,008 --> 01:14:16,088
an asteroid could strike the earth and wipe out the human race and we should eventually become

1011
01:14:16,088 --> 01:14:20,868
an interplanetary species. The chances of it happening in the next 10,000 years are really,

1012
01:14:20,868 --> 01:14:26,688
really, really, really slim. The chances of us destroying ourselves with the rise of the

1013
01:14:26,688 --> 01:14:34,828
surveillance state is a much more dire threat. And I'm not interested in speculating about what

1014
01:14:34,828 --> 01:14:39,628
we might do a thousand years from now or 500 years from now or 10,000 years from now. I'm

1015
01:14:39,628 --> 01:14:44,488
interested in what we're doing next year. Next year, we're building seasteads. Five years from

1016
01:14:44,488 --> 01:14:50,468
now, I want them all over the world. And I want to free this planet to unleash the innovation

1017
01:14:50,468 --> 01:14:53,088
that's being held back by the state

1018
01:14:53,088 --> 01:15:10,406
so that we can get to Mars I don think we truly getting to Mars without unleashing the global brain among human innovation on the ocean decentralized uncontrolled by any particular monopolistic government

1019
01:15:10,406 --> 01:15:18,426
yeah mars is mars is at a stepping stone i think i think you've got to you've got to travel to mars

1020
01:15:18,426 --> 01:15:23,266
before you can explore the universe like we went to the moon first apparently i don't even know

1021
01:15:23,266 --> 01:15:28,126
whether we did or not someone sent me a video the other day which yeah nasa aims invited me to give

1022
01:15:28,126 --> 01:15:36,526
a presentation and in my pitch to them which went really well um is well what do you guys do when

1023
01:15:36,526 --> 01:15:41,006
you train for space. You go out on the ocean. When you train for anti-gravity, you go down there.

1024
01:15:41,826 --> 01:15:49,286
They're in the ocean practicing anti-gravity. And it's safer and it's cheaper. You can go down

1025
01:15:49,286 --> 01:15:52,586
there and you can try things out. If things go wrong, you can go back to the surface.

1026
01:15:54,346 --> 01:16:00,406
What do they eat? They eat algae, ocean-based stuff. All of their research goes on in the ocean.

1027
01:16:00,406 --> 01:16:06,086
and man it's completely resonated for them they got completely interested in

1028
01:16:06,086 --> 01:16:10,686
yeah oceans first and space next all their space footage comes from the ocean as well doesn't it

1029
01:16:10,686 --> 01:16:16,846
oh yeah a lot of it a lot of it is algae based no all the fake pictures of people in space

1030
01:16:16,846 --> 01:16:21,926
it's all filmed underwater that's what some people say isn't it yeah because it's very easy

1031
01:16:21,926 --> 01:16:26,746
to make it look like space with a bit of a green screen the problem we need to solve on this planet

1032
01:16:26,746 --> 01:16:33,066
it is the tribal ape having monopolistic control over other tribal apes but the thing is though

1033
01:16:33,066 --> 01:16:40,406
you mentioned that life evolved in the sea okay but it did move on to the land and it got better

1034
01:16:40,406 --> 01:16:48,266
as far as we understand all right you you've never seen a proper giant squid you never talked to one

1035
01:16:48,266 --> 01:16:53,786
to know exactly how intelligent it is but but it was an evolutionary step to come on to land

1036
01:16:53,786 --> 01:16:56,066
or can you dispute that probably?

1037
01:16:56,366 --> 01:16:56,526
Sure.

1038
01:16:56,626 --> 01:16:59,426
I mean, a small percentage of all the life that's out there

1039
01:16:59,426 --> 01:17:00,286
came onto land.

1040
01:17:00,606 --> 01:17:02,506
And I have to quote Mark Twain,

1041
01:17:02,646 --> 01:17:05,466
who's the greatest animal who's ever been?

1042
01:17:05,746 --> 01:17:06,046
Man.

1043
01:17:06,826 --> 01:17:07,706
Who discovered that?

1044
01:17:07,986 --> 01:17:08,306
Man.

1045
01:17:09,506 --> 01:17:10,206
Yeah, true.

1046
01:17:10,426 --> 01:17:11,226
I agree.

1047
01:17:11,346 --> 01:17:13,086
But it would appear,

1048
01:17:13,606 --> 01:17:15,946
it depends how you gauge success, I suppose.

1049
01:17:15,946 --> 01:17:18,146
But if you look around us

1050
01:17:18,146 --> 01:17:21,646
and look at all the technology we've created,

1051
01:17:21,646 --> 01:17:27,646
we've done better than anyone right if we measure it by that yeah absolutely but why wouldn't we

1052
01:17:27,646 --> 01:17:34,406
measure it by that then well if we would we want that to keep going right yeah so what's what's

1053
01:17:34,406 --> 01:17:40,906
most likely to stop that what's already holding it back governments governments we i don't think

1054
01:17:40,906 --> 01:17:50,406
the human race can survive an endless future of states um i don't know but what if what if the

1055
01:17:50,406 --> 01:17:56,646
kind of the state system was to start collapsing before any of this happened.

1056
01:17:57,646 --> 01:17:58,486
That would be catastrophic.

1057
01:17:58,786 --> 01:17:59,606
I mean, states do collapse.

1058
01:17:59,726 --> 01:18:01,606
Well, not, you know, Soviet Union.

1059
01:18:01,706 --> 01:18:02,386
It wasn't catastrophic.

1060
01:18:02,746 --> 01:18:03,466
That was, yeah.

1061
01:18:03,866 --> 01:18:08,666
Does that count as a collapse or being outcompeted by something better?

1062
01:18:09,806 --> 01:18:11,526
Well, it was definitely a collapse, yeah.

1063
01:18:11,526 --> 01:18:14,306
It was an institutional collapse, wasn't it?

1064
01:18:14,626 --> 01:18:14,986
Excellent.

1065
01:18:15,206 --> 01:18:15,866
I'm not sure it was.

1066
01:18:16,486 --> 01:18:19,286
I mean, the idea was, yeah, it's better now.

1067
01:18:19,286 --> 01:18:21,066
It is better now, but it's not.

1068
01:18:21,866 --> 01:18:23,166
It's not totally better.

1069
01:18:23,266 --> 01:18:23,466
No.

1070
01:18:23,646 --> 01:18:26,266
But that's what I want to do with Seasteads.

1071
01:18:27,106 --> 01:18:28,206
That's my hope.

1072
01:18:28,206 --> 01:18:32,206
The peaceful, what you characterize as a collapse,

1073
01:18:33,106 --> 01:18:36,546
of the monopolistic institutions.

1074
01:18:36,806 --> 01:18:38,826
So if there was no free world,

1075
01:18:39,366 --> 01:18:41,746
the Soviet Union would not have collapsed.

1076
01:18:42,106 --> 01:18:43,726
Why did the Soviet Union collapse?

1077
01:18:44,646 --> 01:18:45,846
Blue Jeans and the Beatles.

1078
01:18:47,326 --> 01:18:48,106
It's not.

1079
01:18:48,106 --> 01:18:49,646
They banned blue jeans.

1080
01:18:50,126 --> 01:18:50,306
Yeah.

1081
01:18:50,786 --> 01:18:57,406
Because everyone there could see that on the other side of the Iron Curtain, everything was better.

1082
01:18:57,806 --> 01:18:59,186
They had the alternative.

1083
01:18:59,486 --> 01:19:00,986
Like, why does it work better over there?

1084
01:19:01,086 --> 01:19:02,826
Why don't our ideologies work?

1085
01:19:03,206 --> 01:19:03,466
Yeah.

1086
01:19:03,586 --> 01:19:04,186
So, okay.

1087
01:19:04,266 --> 01:19:05,566
I do agree with that.

1088
01:19:05,566 --> 01:19:13,886
And I think that the only way Seasteads are going to inflict that outcome will be when they are the size of proper islands, I reckon.

1089
01:19:13,886 --> 01:19:20,406
because i think people need people who live on land want to live on land i think you it's

1090
01:19:20,406 --> 01:19:27,126
undeniable that the biggest and most obvious retraction or argument against seasteading

1091
01:19:27,126 --> 01:19:33,686
is i want to live on land or as a lot of said yesterday where can i go for a jog or can i go

1092
01:19:33,686 --> 01:19:42,326
and sit in a garden can i you know right um so so that needs to be resolved by size according to

1093
01:19:42,326 --> 01:19:47,706
me and i think i think sea sets of the future need to be need to look like tropical islands or

1094
01:19:47,706 --> 01:19:53,806
to look like temperate forests or to look like whatever yeah yeah or to be the size of giant

1095
01:19:53,806 --> 01:20:00,166
cities yeah yeah the goal is is floating venices where you know you're going to fly to a city

1096
01:20:00,166 --> 01:20:04,906
i think you'll be like am i on land or am i in a seastead i don't know which which one is this

1097
01:20:04,906 --> 01:20:11,286
i i that's what we're going for i mean it's funny actually because the the elites on the east coast

1098
01:20:11,286 --> 01:20:17,346
we're looking out on the American frontier and saying, well, I don't want to live in that log

1099
01:20:17,346 --> 01:20:22,406
cabin. I need a place to jog. I need a place to walk my dogs, which is what my wife says. I'm not

1100
01:20:22,406 --> 01:20:27,386
moving to a seastead until I can walk my dogs. So I have an incentive. When we're looking at

1101
01:20:27,386 --> 01:20:32,546
Mitchell's Ark Pad, when we're looking at Mason's LiberArcs, we're looking at the minimal viable

1102
01:20:32,546 --> 01:20:37,486
product that's going to start all these things. If those things work on the sea, you can start

1103
01:20:37,486 --> 01:20:41,966
connecting more and more and growing and growing and growing until you have your town and your farm

1104
01:20:41,966 --> 01:20:47,346
and all that sort of stuff so yeah but the i don't think venice would be enough for me it would have

1105
01:20:47,346 --> 01:20:57,526
to be like i say a giant technological construction some base that has rock and soil and you know i

1106
01:20:57,526 --> 01:21:03,526
mean i mean a real we're talking not that far in the future probably to be honest if you can build

1107
01:21:03,526 --> 01:21:10,566
a if you can build a the the the spirit of the sea or whatever that latest um cruise liner was

1108
01:21:10,566 --> 01:21:17,206
two billion dollars so if you could spend two billion dollars building a high-rise shit that

1109
01:21:17,206 --> 01:21:23,246
looks like i mean it's just the most insane looking thing you've ever seen like then you can build you

1110
01:21:23,246 --> 01:21:32,886
can engineer a floating living platform that's the size of greater london whatever yeah you can

1111
01:21:32,886 --> 01:21:41,766
Yeah. I mean, the reason, I mean, cruise ships are looking absurd because they're not becoming seasteads. They have to remain ships that could port and go to land.

1112
01:21:41,926 --> 01:21:59,626
They look like children's toys. Have you ever noticed that? Have you seen the new one? That's this, I think it's called the Spirit of the Sea or the whatever of the sea. It looks like a kid's toy. From the top, all you can see is like, there's a little, you know, like there's a water slide.

1113
01:21:59,626 --> 01:22:04,006
boy they've got a forested bit in the middle you go in there there's a there's a park in it

1114
01:22:04,006 --> 01:22:11,526
there's i don't know 50 restaurants there's uh it's just outrageous it's a beyond stupendous not

1115
01:22:11,526 --> 01:22:17,426
only do they already have on a ship everything you say you want it's walking distance from your room

1116
01:22:17,426 --> 01:22:23,686
yeah they have they have all the stores but that that that is also a negative that's also a like

1117
01:22:23,686 --> 01:22:28,486
i don't want everything to be 15 minutes walk from my room you know i want wilderness like i

1118
01:22:28,486 --> 01:22:35,366
I hope that the result, like I'm a, maybe I'm unusual, but I love wilderness.

1119
01:22:36,306 --> 01:22:37,166
I love wilderness.

1120
01:22:37,306 --> 01:22:37,506
Right.

1121
01:22:37,666 --> 01:22:43,566
So, so when I, I will not live on a, I will, I will leave a seastead to search for wilderness.

1122
01:22:44,146 --> 01:22:44,946
That's what I would say.

1123
01:22:45,026 --> 01:22:47,086
So, so there better be an option.

1124
01:22:47,786 --> 01:22:47,906
Yeah.

1125
01:22:47,906 --> 01:22:48,266
Yeah.

1126
01:22:48,486 --> 01:22:52,946
So, I mean, if Las Vegas and Dubai can build fake wildernesses.

1127
01:22:53,326 --> 01:22:53,546
Yes.

1128
01:22:53,706 --> 01:22:54,586
No, a hundred percent.

1129
01:22:54,766 --> 01:22:56,086
You can put one on your big city.

1130
01:22:56,086 --> 01:23:03,666
I mean the the absurdity of cruise ships is an example of the demand for better governance because they're just

1131
01:23:04,006 --> 01:23:08,766
Why would you spend two billion dollars because you know you can make your money back making this fabulous thing?

1132
01:23:09,206 --> 01:23:11,166
It's it's it's gonna look silly

1133
01:23:11,166 --> 01:23:25,864
I think cruise ships will probably start shrinking as seasteads float out there permanently Why don they change shape Like a little bit more because they just big boats they just big boats they know they getting taller and taller they got what is a

1134
01:23:25,864 --> 01:23:30,964
cruise ship now it's like 40 stories or something isn't it or more is it it's ridiculous it's like

1135
01:23:30,964 --> 01:23:36,284
it's just like it looks like a high-rise boat yeah so obviously there's a reason for that is

1136
01:23:36,284 --> 01:23:42,944
the flat is the is the classification part of that yeah there's there's no there is no this is what

1137
01:23:42,944 --> 01:23:47,624
the Seasteading Institute, this is my mission in life, to solve this problem, that there's no

1138
01:23:47,624 --> 01:23:55,044
legal category for a structure, a cruise ship that never comes to land and isn't designed to move,

1139
01:23:56,044 --> 01:23:59,344
you know, isn't designed to come into port, but to stay out there for a century.

1140
01:24:00,924 --> 01:24:05,444
That, I don't want anyone declaring the first Seasteads pirates.

1141
01:24:07,364 --> 01:24:08,724
They already have, haven't they?

1142
01:24:09,264 --> 01:24:09,684
Yeah.

1143
01:24:10,444 --> 01:24:12,244
Was it Nadia and...

1144
01:24:12,244 --> 01:24:13,584
They didn't declare him pirates.

1145
01:24:13,724 --> 01:24:15,164
They declared him a threat to sovereignty,

1146
01:24:15,364 --> 01:24:17,524
but you'll have to read my book about that.

1147
01:24:17,584 --> 01:24:18,524
Is it out yet, by the way?

1148
01:24:18,684 --> 01:24:19,264
No, it's not.

1149
01:24:19,424 --> 01:24:20,524
I got a first draft,

1150
01:24:21,344 --> 01:24:22,504
and I think I have to make it shorter.

1151
01:24:22,644 --> 01:24:23,804
I'm getting the first round of edits.

1152
01:24:24,284 --> 01:24:25,384
I just thought of something.

1153
01:24:25,484 --> 01:24:26,404
What was I going to say?

1154
01:24:29,444 --> 01:24:30,324
I've forgotten.

1155
01:24:30,884 --> 01:24:32,064
Oh, yeah, Venice, Venice.

1156
01:24:32,324 --> 01:24:34,904
Yeah, everything you say you want is on a cruise ship,

1157
01:24:35,524 --> 01:24:37,104
including forests, right?

1158
01:24:37,744 --> 01:24:39,504
But it's kind of like a Las Vegas thing.

1159
01:24:39,504 --> 01:24:48,944
But if you can build something 10 times the size of a cruise ship that never leaves, that's completely stable, you can create a forest.

1160
01:24:49,684 --> 01:24:49,804
Yeah.

1161
01:24:50,144 --> 01:24:50,504
You know?

1162
01:24:51,144 --> 01:24:52,124
Yeah, I know.

1163
01:24:52,344 --> 01:24:56,804
Yeah, especially a temperate one because you don't even need hugely deep soil.

1164
01:24:57,244 --> 01:25:05,664
No, I was just, I don't know whether you've ever spoken about this, but Venice, interestingly, was built on the sea.

1165
01:25:05,664 --> 01:25:11,784
it was created out of nothing on a bog marshley bog land wasn't it yep and it was one of the most

1166
01:25:11,784 --> 01:25:19,904
successful cities in history thousand years running as a city it ran as a merchant city

1167
01:25:19,904 --> 01:25:25,384
it had an interesting governance model and it the only reason it exists is because people

1168
01:25:25,384 --> 01:25:33,904
fled to a place where no one wanted to go and built a city on the water yep it's a seastead

1169
01:25:33,904 --> 01:25:36,464
Yeah, exactly. How did I not know? Have we ever talked about that before?

1170
01:25:37,104 --> 01:25:38,904
We have. We talked about it on your show.

1171
01:25:38,984 --> 01:25:42,044
But it's certainly, it's absolutely a sea-stead.

1172
01:25:42,264 --> 01:25:45,824
They fled the land because there was so much war going on.

1173
01:25:46,124 --> 01:25:48,684
And it was developed by businessmen and merchants.

1174
01:25:49,744 --> 01:25:52,584
And it's hard to attack it because it's in a swamp.

1175
01:25:53,704 --> 01:26:00,204
And they had to solve insurmountable technical problems to keep this thing going and to keep building it.

1176
01:26:00,204 --> 01:26:03,944
but there was the first seastead sorry to put in the first real one needs to be

1177
01:26:03,944 --> 01:26:07,364
called venice venice too doesn't it i agree because the innovation

1178
01:26:07,364 --> 01:26:12,264
will be a moving venice that's all it is yeah if you because you're right venice

1179
01:26:12,264 --> 01:26:15,224
fell because technology meant it was not

1180
01:26:15,224 --> 01:26:19,784
strategically defendable in the end it used to be easy to defend

1181
01:26:19,784 --> 01:26:22,304
and then the some new technology made it

1182
01:26:22,304 --> 01:26:27,124
harder and that's when it started to decline in its in its notoriety

1183
01:26:27,124 --> 01:26:46,784
Sure. Yeah, because it couldn't move. But for a thousand years, it dominated the Mediterranean. It became the most powerful thing in the world. So suppose those little pieces of Venice could break apart and move elsewhere and move to a new place. What if Hong Kong could detach from communist China and go someplace else?

1184
01:26:46,784 --> 01:26:54,744
i mean if you have mobility on the ocean and you have smaller modular units and this is just a

1185
01:26:54,744 --> 01:26:59,464
market of people moving their homes around and choosing governance providers they want

1186
01:26:59,464 --> 01:27:03,364
it'd probably take a lot for me to detach from my floating venice i'd have to get

1187
01:27:03,364 --> 01:27:08,304
pretty angry if you told me that five years ago five years ago that i'd be

1188
01:27:08,304 --> 01:27:14,184
waxing lyrical about floating island floating cities i'd have said i was in completely insane

1189
01:27:14,184 --> 01:27:22,144
i have a weird um uh kind of connection with with seasteading from my very distant past

1190
01:27:22,144 --> 01:27:27,064
it wasn't seasteading though i don't think it was and i can't really tell you much about it except

1191
01:27:27,064 --> 01:27:33,384
when i was an absolute i was a real absolute hippie right in sort of i think it was the 80s probably

1192
01:27:33,384 --> 01:27:41,484
um i had this idea to start a traveling library of esoteric literature right i just thought a bit

1193
01:27:41,484 --> 01:27:47,564
and I had no money no nothing so I wrote to all the publishers I went into this bookstore and I

1194
01:27:47,564 --> 01:27:51,964
found the names of all the publishers that were like publishing weird and wonderful books anything

1195
01:27:51,964 --> 01:27:58,064
spiritual esoteric you know anything unusual and I just wrote them letters on a typewriter and said

1196
01:27:58,064 --> 01:28:04,604
if you've got any like seconds misprints reprints overstock can you send them to me and I got like

1197
01:28:04,604 --> 01:28:11,684
thousands and thousands of books so i bought a cheap sort of like mercedes van and i built

1198
01:28:11,684 --> 01:28:18,984
with my own money and a a pyramid shaped um do you know the pyramid stage at glastonbury

1199
01:28:18,984 --> 01:28:24,144
no oh have you never seen that right it was that before that pyramid stage i just came to the same

1200
01:28:24,144 --> 01:28:28,964
conclusion i just made a small one so it was transportable it was like this basically this

1201
01:28:28,964 --> 01:28:37,164
kind of i used i used a marine um canvas and and metal rock piece it was six meters by six meters

1202
01:28:37,164 --> 01:28:42,604
this thing and then i just took it from place to place around the uk mainly festivals and stuff

1203
01:28:42,604 --> 01:28:47,744
and just planted this library there and let people come in and read books it was a just a stupid idea

1204
01:28:47,744 --> 01:28:54,204
but i did it for a few years anyway one we got a little bit known about uh what we were doing

1205
01:28:54,204 --> 01:28:58,484
and people used to come in and just give us free books and stuff and one day someone came in and

1206
01:28:58,484 --> 01:29:07,044
said look um my uncle has just died or something um he's he's a bit weird and he's got this massive

1207
01:29:07,044 --> 01:29:14,064
archive of weird stuff um do you want it because we're just going to throw it away otherwise and

1208
01:29:14,064 --> 01:29:20,984
we went yeah sure so we drove down there we went to this house and it was filing cabinets full of

1209
01:29:20,984 --> 01:29:29,064
prototype floating cities and stuff wow and i've i've got it somewhere because i kept i kept them

1210
01:29:29,064 --> 01:29:33,964
i didn't keep it all it was literally there was like 20 filing cabinets full of all this weird

1211
01:29:33,964 --> 01:29:39,964
and wonderful stuff he was just this engineer old man in hastings or something who who just had all

1212
01:29:39,964 --> 01:29:45,544
these ideas but they were all like and and i only thought about it recently in the last couple of

1213
01:29:45,544 --> 01:29:49,644
years again jesus i've got to find all that stuff i don't even know what i can tell you what his name

1214
01:29:49,644 --> 01:29:55,024
was i have no idea what his name is or was and this was a long time ago so this was like probably

1215
01:29:55,024 --> 01:30:01,084
in the 90s now um and but i've definitely still got it because i there were some things that i

1216
01:30:01,084 --> 01:30:05,724
never throw away and i've had things go through storage and stuff but yeah it's not it's not

1217
01:30:05,724 --> 01:30:09,224
necessarily relevant here it's just something i've remembered like yeah i mean buckminster

1218
01:30:09,224 --> 01:30:15,664
fuller designed a floating city in great detail the year you were born 71 yeah yeah the before

1219
01:30:15,664 --> 01:30:21,604
that actually uh 68 or something like that it was it was featured in linden the model was featured

1220
01:30:21,604 --> 01:30:27,064
in linden johnson's white house what was it floating on then what was it made of uh i'm

1221
01:30:27,064 --> 01:30:31,624
talking about the model he designed it and it was but what was it planned to be it was planned to be

1222
01:30:31,624 --> 01:30:37,944
in one of the lakes of the u.s no what was it planned to be made of like steel or you know i

1223
01:30:37,944 --> 01:30:42,624
don't remember but that's what what would you do now for something on a vast scale would it be a

1224
01:30:42,624 --> 01:30:48,324
massive concrete structure perhaps concrete i mean what i love about this is the very the

1225
01:30:48,324 --> 01:30:55,924
competition among uh material science with arc pad and ocean builders and so so ocean builders

1226
01:30:55,924 --> 01:31:02,304
is doing the method of steel run a cathode you know an electrical current cathode anode grow

1227
01:31:02,304 --> 01:31:07,064
coral crete and encase it in coral crete then you stay there permanently for a little while arc pad

1228
01:31:07,064 --> 01:31:13,304
was there was a guy that was doing um geopolymer concrete which i can go on and on about that uh

1229
01:31:13,304 --> 01:31:18,824
which which floats and is resistant to the waves and so there's all sorts of things you can build

1230
01:31:18,824 --> 01:31:22,904
all sorts of materials you can build on the ocean with but it requires you to think

1231
01:31:22,904 --> 01:31:27,164
completely differently i think a lot of people don't realize that a lot of boats are made out

1232
01:31:27,164 --> 01:31:33,604
of concrete barges are made out of concrete aren't they some of them yeah well i i remember because i

1233
01:31:33,604 --> 01:31:45,642
I was some friend of a friend of mine used to live on one but they lived it wasn a concrete one and they took me around their neighbor house and he explained to me that this thing is made of concrete

1234
01:31:45,762 --> 01:31:46,902
And I'm like, well, how does it float then?

1235
01:31:47,142 --> 01:31:48,062
Yeah, it floats in concrete.

1236
01:31:48,062 --> 01:31:48,442
Stupidly.

1237
01:31:48,642 --> 01:31:49,062
But it's not.

1238
01:31:50,582 --> 01:31:57,442
But presumably now concrete you could inject with small air bubbles and it would float without having to necessarily have a hull in the middle.

1239
01:31:58,842 --> 01:32:02,362
So most of this stuff is already in existence on the sea.

1240
01:32:02,362 --> 01:32:07,582
I'll tell you my favorite example of the resistance of the mind to open.

1241
01:32:09,282 --> 01:32:15,502
There's a traveling, we'll call it a yacht, a traveling residential ship called The World.

1242
01:32:16,162 --> 01:32:16,442
I know.

1243
01:32:16,562 --> 01:32:17,962
People live aboard it permanently.

1244
01:32:18,122 --> 01:32:19,562
Yeah, it's got condos on it and stuff.

1245
01:32:19,642 --> 01:32:20,862
Yeah, it's really amazing.

1246
01:32:21,002 --> 01:32:21,922
And it's not that big.

1247
01:32:22,002 --> 01:32:22,802
It's sort of small.

1248
01:32:23,582 --> 01:32:26,062
But it's got a few hundred residents.

1249
01:32:26,322 --> 01:32:27,442
And people buy them, right?

1250
01:32:28,102 --> 01:32:28,942
People buy them.

1251
01:32:29,122 --> 01:32:29,882
People rent them.

1252
01:32:30,222 --> 01:32:31,362
They're all different sizes.

1253
01:32:31,362 --> 01:32:36,342
they cater to all different kinds of people and they have a community on there some it's a second

1254
01:32:36,342 --> 01:32:39,842
home but some people are on there permanently have kids they have all that stuff they have

1255
01:32:39,842 --> 01:32:44,562
and everything you want every amenity you can imagine i really enjoyed so they invited me on

1256
01:32:44,562 --> 01:32:51,622
a 10-day all expenses paid cruise by the way it was between like iceland and you know it was up in

1257
01:32:51,622 --> 01:32:57,902
the north sea where the waves are big but you know didn't we weren't bothered by it um they

1258
01:32:57,902 --> 01:33:04,082
They invited me to give three three-hour talks on three different subjects of seasteading, right?

1259
01:33:06,382 --> 01:33:11,202
I did my first talk and went to the Q&A, and the first guy raises his hand.

1260
01:33:12,122 --> 01:33:15,502
And the first words out of his mouth were, this seems kind of utopian.

1261
01:33:18,822 --> 01:33:20,062
But in what sense?

1262
01:33:20,582 --> 01:33:21,522
As in what?

1263
01:33:21,522 --> 01:33:22,482
It's never going to work.

1264
01:33:22,662 --> 01:33:23,902
It's never going to work.

1265
01:33:23,902 --> 01:33:25,862
The government's going to come get you.

1266
01:33:25,862 --> 01:33:30,922
you know and I'm and I and I you know as politely as I could I had to say

1267
01:33:30,922 --> 01:33:36,602
this is the the greatest priesthood in the world we're standing on it right now

1268
01:33:36,602 --> 01:33:42,042
and it was somebody's utopia just a a couple of decades ago and now it's real

1269
01:33:42,042 --> 01:33:45,042
it doesn't say much for the kind of people that travel on the world

1270
01:33:45,042 --> 01:33:51,062
but I'm saying I'm saying this guy is not exceptional and he was a good guy and he

1271
01:33:51,062 --> 01:33:54,642
invited me to lunch later I mean he got very interested in this and he attended all three

1272
01:33:54,642 --> 01:34:04,182
talks. But you say, people say utopian, we're living inside the evolution of utopias.

1273
01:34:04,182 --> 01:34:10,862
I don't think it's utopian though. I think it's too complicated to be utopian, isn't it? Like it's

1274
01:34:10,862 --> 01:34:19,962
too vast a prospect to be utopian. Like utopia is easy and unavailable. Seasteading is complicated,

1275
01:34:19,962 --> 01:34:27,862
but available seasideing as in like when i say seasideing now i'm thinking floating islands that's

1276
01:34:27,862 --> 01:34:33,922
that's where i'm at with seaside i'm not interested in uh what grant i mean i'm interested in it but

1277
01:34:33,922 --> 01:34:39,362
i'm not interested in living on sea pods arc pads any of that stuff that's not my thing i i have no

1278
01:34:39,362 --> 01:34:43,942
interest in that at all it's it's for me it's a bit of a gimmick but for some people they love it

1279
01:34:43,942 --> 01:34:45,162
and that's what they want.

1280
01:34:45,662 --> 01:34:49,422
For me, I'm interested in the pure form

1281
01:34:49,422 --> 01:34:50,562
of the free private city,

1282
01:34:51,062 --> 01:34:54,902
which is a movable island nation

1283
01:34:54,902 --> 01:35:00,662
that looks like an atoll or not even an atoll,

1284
01:35:00,782 --> 01:35:02,442
looks like the Isle of Wight.

1285
01:35:03,282 --> 01:35:04,802
I don't know, maybe a bit smaller,

1286
01:35:05,402 --> 01:35:07,982
you know, with fields and roads

1287
01:35:07,982 --> 01:35:10,562
and accommodation and all that stuff.

1288
01:35:10,562 --> 01:35:12,742
That's where we're going.

1289
01:35:12,742 --> 01:35:19,762
that's where i hope i see that before i die mind you i spoke to a longevity guy yesterday he said

1290
01:35:19,762 --> 01:35:26,302
within my lifetime i'll be able to live forever anyway so it's looking good for a seastead yeah

1291
01:35:26,302 --> 01:35:30,922
he said i said 35 he said within 35 years you'll have the option to live forever huh we're gonna

1292
01:35:30,922 --> 01:35:36,182
make the cut i thought we wouldn't well yeah i someone i spoke to yesterday i won't say who it

1293
01:35:36,182 --> 01:35:42,642
is is cryogenically freezing themselves yeah and you might know who it is but i i resist

1294
01:35:42,642 --> 01:35:48,862
When I'm talking about seasteading, I resist talking about futuristic things that are decades in the future that we can't be sure of.

1295
01:35:49,102 --> 01:35:49,282
Why?

1296
01:35:49,282 --> 01:35:51,882
Because I want people to focus on this is already happening.

1297
01:35:52,022 --> 01:35:54,682
It's happening right now and it's going to be available in the next couple of years.

1298
01:35:54,762 --> 01:35:56,922
And here are the practical challenges and here's what we're really doing.

1299
01:35:57,062 --> 01:35:58,362
This is the immediate future.

1300
01:35:58,662 --> 01:35:59,442
Yeah, that's right.

1301
01:35:59,822 --> 01:36:02,002
But that's a tiny market.

1302
01:36:03,082 --> 01:36:10,542
And actually, I think as long as you can convince, like, I think the best way forward is to do what happened to me.

1303
01:36:10,542 --> 01:36:19,522
is you basically you you you show someone the model and then you say what it's going to be like

1304
01:36:19,522 --> 01:36:25,422
and and in a in a believable way because that's because most people don't want to live on a little

1305
01:36:25,422 --> 01:36:29,542
seastead or on a little boat or on a little anything so there's a tiny market there right

1306
01:36:29,542 --> 01:36:36,522
but if you if you believe what i now believe we're good and actually i've said this to other

1307
01:36:36,522 --> 01:36:42,782
people on this trip i think that seasteading is the most important aspect of the free cities

1308
01:36:42,782 --> 01:36:49,842
ecosystem currently not because it's seasteading but because of the philosophy the philosophical

1309
01:36:49,842 --> 01:36:58,022
proof that free cities work right that's the thing you know like the because it's it's like

1310
01:36:58,022 --> 01:37:05,662
a pure form of this when you talk about free cities in um on land you have to reach the conclusion

1311
01:37:05,662 --> 01:37:13,682
of yeah you're right it could get shut down yep right and all right in the absolute extreme as he

1312
01:37:13,682 --> 01:37:18,862
said could get shut down as well but it's far more difficult and there are far more arguments

1313
01:37:18,862 --> 01:37:28,622
to show that it won't and so so as a as a pivotal important meme in the whole space it's the most

1314
01:37:28,622 --> 01:37:34,142
crucial one currently even even though seasteading people might laugh at it still and they probably

1315
01:37:34,142 --> 01:37:39,842
do because it's like that's retarded who's going to do that yeah the idea which will live forever

1316
01:37:39,842 --> 01:37:47,482
is is is is instant is is installed in the seasteading world not in the free cities world

1317
01:37:47,482 --> 01:37:52,542
it's in the seasteading world it then applies to the land it's almost like here's the rule

1318
01:37:52,542 --> 01:37:58,302
we can apply that to the land you know whereas i think most people are approaching it i did

1319
01:37:58,302 --> 01:38:04,562
here's the free city oh look there's seasteading it's like no here's here's the you'd here's the

1320
01:38:04,562 --> 01:38:11,242
dream you can try it on land but it's not as effective right basically yeah so seasteads are

1321
01:38:11,242 --> 01:38:17,462
a technology is why i'm into seasteading is i want to put the states out of business through

1322
01:38:17,462 --> 01:38:22,922
a hundred thousand superior examples on most of the earth's surface setting better examples and

1323
01:38:22,922 --> 01:38:32,242
We don't appreciate how much innovations by small nations will completely change governance systems in larger nations.

1324
01:38:32,242 --> 01:38:34,822
It happens over and over, and no one ever argues about it.

1325
01:38:35,322 --> 01:38:38,422
And we need more, better examples.

1326
01:38:38,422 --> 01:38:53,362
So my goal is not a hundred oases for people who love freedom to get away from the state and be surrounded by a continent of people that are hostile towards them.

1327
01:38:53,462 --> 01:38:54,822
Because you'll end up like Hong Kong.

1328
01:38:54,922 --> 01:38:55,822
They'll just take you back.

1329
01:38:56,642 --> 01:39:04,042
I think negotiating with governments to have little oases of freedom is a temporary solution.

1330
01:39:04,042 --> 01:39:05,642
And it's not going to save the world.

1331
01:39:05,642 --> 01:39:16,322
So I'm in a race with a surveillance state to decentralize governance on the ocean and create so many superior examples that people love more than they love cruise ships.

1332
01:39:16,582 --> 01:39:18,982
And your children are going and living on these things.

1333
01:39:19,142 --> 01:39:25,222
And they're not arguing about politics while they're out there because there's no need for it because there's a market of rulemaking.

1334
01:39:25,642 --> 01:39:27,442
And it's endlessly diverse.

1335
01:39:27,942 --> 01:39:31,722
And then we have a world where there's just better governance.

1336
01:39:31,722 --> 01:39:34,482
and people look at monopoly governance

1337
01:39:34,482 --> 01:39:36,262
like we look at the USSR.

1338
01:39:36,262 --> 01:39:38,002
What an old-fashioned clunky thing

1339
01:39:38,002 --> 01:39:40,162
that couldn't make anything happen.

1340
01:39:40,162 --> 01:39:42,162
But it'll always exist on Earth, like you said,

1341
01:39:42,162 --> 01:39:46,842
on the Earth, sorry, on land, like you say.

1342
01:39:46,842 --> 01:39:52,182
Land-based communities trend towards that, don't they?

1343
01:39:52,182 --> 01:39:53,102
Towards monopoly.

1344
01:39:53,102 --> 01:39:55,442
Yeah. I mean, they do, you're right.

1345
01:39:55,442 --> 01:39:56,982
And there's not much you can do about that

1346
01:39:56,982 --> 01:39:58,542
except keep moving.

1347
01:39:58,542 --> 01:39:59,982
Once it becomes a monopoly,

1348
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:00,540
get out.

1349
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:03,760
But we've kind of almost exhausted that as an option.

1350
01:40:04,480 --> 01:40:04,700
Right.

1351
01:40:04,840 --> 01:40:06,600
If all land on Earth is claimed,

1352
01:40:07,740 --> 01:40:12,280
we have to populate the rest of the planet Ocean,

1353
01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:15,560
which automatically causes libertarian societies

1354
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:17,300
and prevents monopolies,

1355
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:20,200
because everyone's fluidly moving their houses around

1356
01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:21,720
for better governance.

1357
01:40:21,940 --> 01:40:26,000
It's just, it comes back to the time scale again.

1358
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:32,700
it's like yeah i i know you're a you're a stage by stage thinker i'm not i'm like

1359
01:40:32,700 --> 01:40:39,480
get the islands running yeah get them running let's get on the islands yeah so you're a market

1360
01:40:39,480 --> 01:40:44,800
you know i met grant on a plane right there's not a market for a guy who wants to live in a

1361
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:49,980
floating house all by himself and on the ocean well no there's grant and he'll he'll well now

1362
01:40:49,980 --> 01:40:54,900
there's the government that's the seychelles now as well is it seychelles where's he building that

1363
01:40:54,900 --> 01:41:01,680
the pods is he going to build in the seychelles or the maldives maldives maldives you just told

1364
01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:05,900
me earlier yeah right at the start the maldives yeah sorry not the seychelles and they're they're

1365
01:41:05,900 --> 01:41:09,440
the first to start building they didn't waste any time there's there's like three different

1366
01:41:09,440 --> 01:41:13,460
companies that are supposed to build different a variety of things well that's within a year

1367
01:41:13,460 --> 01:41:18,800
he only just finished that prototype last year when we spoke to him he just finished the prototype

1368
01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:23,280
yeah pretty much so it's ready to go here you can buy this thing and he told me

1369
01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:27,420
it cost him about 5 million but he wanted to before he started selling it he wanted to get

1370
01:41:27,420 --> 01:41:32,080
the price down to a million because he needs an economy as a scale right you know well maybe they

1371
01:41:32,080 --> 01:41:37,000
got it from that what that first job did they well how many is he building they're well on the way

1372
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:41,020
they're going to build 20 for the maldives right that's a pretty good economies of scale already

1373
01:41:41,020 --> 01:41:48,160
right yeah with something that substantial yeah bloody hell if he i i haven't spoken to him since

1374
01:41:48,160 --> 01:41:49,560
Is there a time scale on that?

1375
01:41:50,680 --> 01:41:53,000
Oh, he could tell you the time scale.

1376
01:41:53,140 --> 01:41:55,180
You should probably have an interview with him.

1377
01:41:55,260 --> 01:41:57,540
But he's one of these entrepreneurs that's working so hard,

1378
01:41:57,600 --> 01:41:59,280
he's not taking the time to do interviews.

1379
01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:01,220
They're building, they're building, they're building,

1380
01:42:01,280 --> 01:42:02,400
and they're working and they're hiring

1381
01:42:02,400 --> 01:42:04,200
and they're getting all this stuff going.

1382
01:42:04,660 --> 01:42:06,420
And they're, you know, by doing it,

1383
01:42:06,500 --> 01:42:09,020
discovering all the technologies you need to live on the sea.

1384
01:42:09,480 --> 01:42:15,060
He, Grant, is a real bona fide entrepreneur, isn't he?

1385
01:42:15,060 --> 01:42:18,760
because he's one of those entrepreneurs.

1386
01:42:18,860 --> 01:42:20,600
Some entrepreneurs, they make a lot of money

1387
01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:22,200
and they create something,

1388
01:42:22,700 --> 01:42:24,500
but I could envisage doing that myself

1389
01:42:24,500 --> 01:42:26,540
if I had the same opportunities.

1390
01:42:27,020 --> 01:42:29,180
I have the same opportunities as Grant

1391
01:42:29,180 --> 01:42:30,020
to do what he's doing.

1392
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:31,440
And there's absolutely no way

1393
01:42:31,440 --> 01:42:33,240
I would ever structure a business

1394
01:42:33,240 --> 01:42:35,520
around selling floating houses, right?

1395
01:42:36,260 --> 01:42:37,120
Not like that.

1396
01:42:37,200 --> 01:42:38,000
And he's done it.

1397
01:42:38,300 --> 01:42:39,340
And he's probably going to end up

1398
01:42:39,340 --> 01:42:41,300
making a ton of money out of it as well, isn't he?

1399
01:42:41,640 --> 01:42:41,960
Again.

1400
01:42:42,480 --> 01:42:43,180
Probably, yeah.

1401
01:42:43,280 --> 01:42:44,300
He's a serial entrepreneur

1402
01:42:44,300 --> 01:42:45,780
with some extraordinary success.

1403
01:42:45,900 --> 01:42:47,260
But what's interesting about him

1404
01:42:47,260 --> 01:42:49,720
is that he was retired in his 40s.

1405
01:42:49,720 --> 01:42:50,300
He had stopped.

1406
01:42:50,420 --> 01:42:53,000
He was living in a floating home in Canada.

1407
01:42:53,220 --> 01:42:54,060
He had a pretty good life

1408
01:42:54,060 --> 01:42:55,060
because he loves the water

1409
01:42:55,060 --> 01:42:56,800
and he loves living on the water.

1410
01:42:57,520 --> 01:42:59,180
And then when I started describing,

1411
01:42:59,580 --> 01:43:02,680
I met him on the way to Anarcopulco.

1412
01:43:03,240 --> 01:43:04,000
Oh God.

1413
01:43:04,620 --> 01:43:05,580
On the plane.

1414
01:43:06,580 --> 01:43:08,580
Let's talk about Anarcopulco after this, actually.

1415
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:09,140
Sure.

1416
01:43:10,920 --> 01:43:13,140
And it's just an amazing story

1417
01:43:13,140 --> 01:43:15,540
and I describe it in my forthcoming book.

1418
01:43:16,300 --> 01:43:17,080
I mean, I was wearing,

1419
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:19,080
when I'm in a situation like this,

1420
01:43:19,100 --> 01:43:20,060
I wear a shirt that says,

1421
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:21,660
stop arguing, start seasteading.

1422
01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:23,560
Because if someone knows what that is,

1423
01:43:23,580 --> 01:43:24,400
I want them to talk to me.

1424
01:43:24,400 --> 01:43:25,140
And he saw that.

1425
01:43:26,100 --> 01:43:26,580
And then he just,

1426
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:27,680
we were like standing in line

1427
01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:29,140
while we're changing planes.

1428
01:43:29,300 --> 01:43:30,640
And he was, you know,

1429
01:43:30,860 --> 01:43:31,880
he asked me about it.

1430
01:43:33,100 --> 01:43:35,600
It was my first experience

1431
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:36,680
with how his mind works.

1432
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:39,280
So it's like he asked me a couple of questions

1433
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:40,080
and I answered them.

1434
01:43:40,180 --> 01:43:42,040
And then he kind of looks over

1435
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:45,240
and it's like he's checking apps in his brain, like thinking.

1436
01:43:45,700 --> 01:43:46,820
And he's expecting you to wait.

1437
01:43:46,820 --> 01:43:47,340
That's how his brain works.

1438
01:43:47,420 --> 01:43:49,440
And then he comes back and he's like, asks another question

1439
01:43:49,440 --> 01:43:51,000
and he's checking more apps in his brain.

1440
01:43:51,200 --> 01:43:51,760
He's like, okay.

1441
01:43:52,300 --> 01:43:54,420
Then he comes back later, asks a few more questions.

1442
01:43:54,420 --> 01:43:55,960
Then he thinks about it, walks away.

1443
01:43:57,000 --> 01:43:59,920
And then he saw my presentation of what Chad and Nadia had built.

1444
01:44:00,060 --> 01:44:03,540
The first time I ever showed video of what it was at an Arcapulco,

1445
01:44:03,680 --> 01:44:05,600
just like a couple of weeks.

1446
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:06,600
Oh, he went to an Arcapulco?

1447
01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:07,740
He went to an Arcapulco.

1448
01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:08,000
Did he?

1449
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:08,480
Yeah.

1450
01:44:09,020 --> 01:44:12,240
So then after that presentation, I'm talking to people,

1451
01:44:12,300 --> 01:44:14,840
I'm doing things, he comes over to me, and he goes, I'm in.

1452
01:44:15,700 --> 01:44:17,780
And then he goes, with both feet.

1453
01:44:18,620 --> 01:44:21,600
And he goes, I'll go anywhere you need me to go.

1454
01:44:21,660 --> 01:44:22,380
Where do I need to go?

1455
01:44:22,400 --> 01:44:23,860
And I'm like, you're going to need to fly to Thailand.

1456
01:44:24,000 --> 01:44:24,600
He's like, done.

1457
01:44:25,060 --> 01:44:25,920
I'm doing it.

1458
01:44:26,180 --> 01:44:31,180
So he flew to Thailand, got on a boat, went out there,

1459
01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:33,500
and stayed.

1460
01:44:33,500 --> 01:44:34,180
Saved them.

1461
01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:37,080
Well, first he stayed on it for a while,

1462
01:44:37,080 --> 01:44:40,900
and he climbed up into it and he checked it out and he dove around it. And then he talked about,

1463
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:46,260
oh, we got to make this thing beautiful. We got to have bigger windows. The engineers are

1464
01:44:46,260 --> 01:44:53,260
brilliant, but they need an artist like me. He completely threw all his talent. He pulled

1465
01:44:53,260 --> 01:44:56,960
himself out of retirement and threw all his talent into creating the floating world.

1466
01:44:58,600 --> 01:45:03,200
And then his plan, and then he was going to go back to Canada. He went to his meditation master.

1467
01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:05,840
and then his plan was to come back to the seastead

1468
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:09,480
and meditate on it for like a week or a month alone.

1469
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:14,700
And just like a week or two before he was going to do that,

1470
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:15,700
the Thai Navy struck,

1471
01:45:16,180 --> 01:45:18,820
and then he was involved with rescuing them.

1472
01:45:19,820 --> 01:45:21,720
That's why we're in this world though, mate,

1473
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:22,500
is people like that.

1474
01:45:22,800 --> 01:45:26,140
There's so many interesting people that revolve in these circles.

1475
01:45:26,420 --> 01:45:27,380
I hope it never changes.

1476
01:45:27,860 --> 01:45:31,020
In a way, I kind of secretly hope it never goes mainstream.

1477
01:45:31,500 --> 01:45:31,760
Right.

1478
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:34,080
So you're saying, who would want to do that?

1479
01:45:34,160 --> 01:45:36,260
Well, the most interesting people in the world want to do it.

1480
01:45:36,300 --> 01:45:40,220
And I actually call Grant the real most interesting man in the world, because he really is.

1481
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:42,740
You can make a commercial out of his life, that commercial.

1482
01:45:43,340 --> 01:45:45,780
But Mitchell, incredibly interesting guy.

1483
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:47,340
Chad, incredibly interesting guy.

1484
01:45:47,480 --> 01:45:48,900
Mason, incredibly interesting guy.

1485
01:45:49,460 --> 01:45:55,220
So the innovators that are starting on all this stuff are the most compelling people you're ever going to meet.

1486
01:45:55,220 --> 01:46:01,820
now eventually people like that make things happen to such an extent that we get our floating island

1487
01:46:01,820 --> 01:46:06,700
with its forest that the average person is interested in it but the you know the people

1488
01:46:06,700 --> 01:46:11,860
who used to get on ships and go around the world had to be either kidnapped into it or be so

1489
01:46:11,860 --> 01:46:15,640
desperate they're going to become pirates or they're going to join the merchant marines or

1490
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:22,100
whatever but now your grandparents get on a cruise ship right so as long as it's economically viable

1491
01:46:22,100 --> 01:46:27,900
you start with the pioneers and the risk takers and then they conquer the frontier and then people

1492
01:46:27,900 --> 01:46:33,140
just move there because it's a better option yeah boomers are your biggest market at the moment

1493
01:46:33,140 --> 01:46:41,320
what a sad state of affairs what do you think of an arcopulco because i i had a i've never been

1494
01:46:41,320 --> 01:46:48,240
to an arcopulco but a few months ago i went to liverpulco which is a hybrid an arcopulco

1495
01:46:48,240 --> 01:46:55,520
to a liverland festival same kind of people if you're going to be are you about to be diplomatic

1496
01:46:55,520 --> 01:47:02,200
well i'm someone who's gone to burning man 16 times okay i have a high tolerance for kooks

1497
01:47:02,200 --> 01:47:09,100
okay because where the kooks are the people like grant are okay yeah but not always like i i didn't

1498
01:47:09,100 --> 01:47:14,160
i i i must admit actually i met one very interesting person at liverpulco actually

1499
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:15,120
He's a journalist.

1500
01:47:16,180 --> 01:47:17,640
I've never heard of Liber Polko.

1501
01:47:17,860 --> 01:47:19,060
No, it was only the second year.

1502
01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:24,320
It's Liberland having an Anarcopulco at their place in Liberland.

1503
01:47:24,660 --> 01:47:26,420
So it's the same people, though.

1504
01:47:26,860 --> 01:47:27,880
Jeff, what's his name?

1505
01:47:28,580 --> 01:47:30,120
He came, he comes.

1506
01:47:30,560 --> 01:47:37,000
No, I was just surprised at simple things like how many people there believed in flat earth theory, for example.

1507
01:47:37,180 --> 01:47:37,400
Right.

1508
01:47:38,060 --> 01:47:38,520
So what?

1509
01:47:39,260 --> 01:47:39,700
Yeah.

1510
01:47:39,700 --> 01:47:41,820
And I had a lot of conversation.

1511
01:47:41,940 --> 01:47:45,400
I got stuck in a taxi with two people who both believed it for three hours.

1512
01:47:45,760 --> 01:47:47,140
Me and two Flat Earthers.

1513
01:47:47,740 --> 01:47:50,860
And I wasn't even planning on talking about it.

1514
01:47:51,260 --> 01:47:52,180
But the question came.

1515
01:47:52,220 --> 01:47:53,260
So what do you think of Flat Earth then?

1516
01:47:53,940 --> 01:47:56,760
And I'm like, I'm not going to have this conversation.

1517
01:47:56,940 --> 01:47:58,760
And then I thought, of course I am.

1518
01:47:58,880 --> 01:47:59,540
Of course I'm going to have it.

1519
01:47:59,920 --> 01:48:04,940
I think probably unlikely because really when you look at it,

1520
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:08,500
the chances of the earth being round seem obvious to me

1521
01:48:08,500 --> 01:48:11,140
when I look up and see lots of other round things in the sky.

1522
01:48:11,900 --> 01:48:13,360
And do you know what the answer is?

1523
01:48:13,700 --> 01:48:14,660
How do you know they're round?

1524
01:48:15,480 --> 01:48:24,998
Yeah And then the answer is well I say well I look at it I look at the moon through a I had proved to me it not flat I like I can And then where do you go from there Well yeah

1525
01:48:25,278 --> 01:48:26,158
Well, that's the thing.

1526
01:48:26,198 --> 01:48:27,178
It's a good test.

1527
01:48:28,238 --> 01:48:30,518
You're so confident the world is round.

1528
01:48:31,338 --> 01:48:34,018
Sit down with a flat earther and make a good argument

1529
01:48:34,018 --> 01:48:35,818
and then notice their arguments are better than yours.

1530
01:48:35,898 --> 01:48:37,938
So what's the nature of your beliefs?

1531
01:48:38,878 --> 01:48:41,338
I've been in the presence of people who do a very good job

1532
01:48:41,338 --> 01:48:42,658
of arguing with flat earthers.

1533
01:48:42,658 --> 01:48:55,278
Two people at this festival, at this conference, who I love and respect, didn't exactly say they were flat earthers this year, but said, prove to me it's not flat, which I understand.

1534
01:48:55,378 --> 01:48:56,238
I can't necessarily.

1535
01:48:56,638 --> 01:48:56,818
Yeah.

1536
01:48:56,938 --> 01:48:58,958
But you also can't prove to me it is flat.

1537
01:48:59,478 --> 01:49:01,038
So where do we go from then?

1538
01:49:01,658 --> 01:49:03,038
We just explode, right?

1539
01:49:03,538 --> 01:49:04,338
You can't prove anything.

1540
01:49:04,458 --> 01:49:05,238
So nothing's real.

1541
01:49:05,398 --> 01:49:06,298
So this is it.

1542
01:49:06,518 --> 01:49:06,998
Nihilism.

1543
01:49:06,998 --> 01:49:14,378
You can make, you can, if you're, if you're an expert at something or you're familiar, you're educated at something, you can make good arguments.

1544
01:49:14,538 --> 01:49:14,938
Yeah, I know.

1545
01:49:15,038 --> 01:49:15,838
I can make good arguments.

1546
01:49:16,118 --> 01:49:17,358
But this is the interesting thing.

1547
01:49:17,418 --> 01:49:17,698
So, right.

1548
01:49:17,758 --> 01:49:21,918
In this car journey for three hours, I had no internet.

1549
01:49:22,598 --> 01:49:26,798
So all I could argue and my point with was what I actually knew.

1550
01:49:26,838 --> 01:49:27,678
So I was very careful.

1551
01:49:28,438 --> 01:49:32,518
And by the end of it, I remember thinking, well, yeah, they've got a point.

1552
01:49:32,578 --> 01:49:34,138
I can't prove any of this stuff.

1553
01:49:34,138 --> 01:49:40,218
and then as soon as i got on the internet i found examples of for example the most obvious one

1554
01:49:40,218 --> 01:49:45,738
because i'm a photographer former photographer i've used very long lenses yeah and the theory

1555
01:49:45,738 --> 01:49:51,118
is if you look through a very long lens uh out to sea you'll see ships go over the horizon yeah

1556
01:49:51,118 --> 01:49:54,878
that's a that's a good example right there's plenty of examples of that there's even examples

1557
01:49:54,878 --> 01:49:59,538
of ships in the foreground here and ships in the background just this with just a sail showing

1558
01:49:59,538 --> 01:50:04,798
right right but there's an answer for that something to do with refraction of light or

1559
01:50:04,798 --> 01:50:11,838
something right right so you can keep going and where does it end yeah like what's the definitive

1560
01:50:11,838 --> 01:50:17,598
argument for around earth according to you it's marshalling the various pieces of evidence it's

1561
01:50:17,598 --> 01:50:23,218
the same thing when when people show up at school boards and want to argue for evolution and they

1562
01:50:23,218 --> 01:50:28,178
think creationists are stupid and they have to win before an audience of people that don't know

1563
01:50:28,178 --> 01:50:32,418
either subject and then the creationists are just making mincemeat out of all these

1564
01:50:32,418 --> 01:50:39,998
people who think they can explain why evolution is true so do you just not engage no you can be

1565
01:50:39,998 --> 01:50:44,138
good at it people don't want to admit that they believe the earth is round and they believe in

1566
01:50:44,138 --> 01:50:50,418
evolution based on faith all right why doesn't all the water just float away on earth if it's round

1567
01:50:50,418 --> 01:50:56,878
what's keeping the water there i mean that was another one i heard this time from my friend i

1568
01:50:56,878 --> 01:51:02,158
mean i'm we're joking about it at the moment but she's i think she's serious she it's true like i

1569
01:51:02,158 --> 01:51:05,438
don't know why the water doesn't flow away something to do with gravity what's gravity

1570
01:51:05,438 --> 01:51:10,978
well i don't know yeah you can keep drilling i don't know what any of that stuff is question

1571
01:51:10,978 --> 01:51:15,038
what gravity right so so what am i supposed to do because i like talking about it i like talking

1572
01:51:15,038 --> 01:51:19,818
about things as you know yeah well it's a good test where i mean how much do you really know

1573
01:51:19,818 --> 01:51:24,818
about it can you really defend your beliefs no but but not the way they argue it because the way

1574
01:51:24,818 --> 01:51:29,418
they argue it's a bit like it's kind of like marxist nothing's real there's no definitive

1575
01:51:29,418 --> 01:51:35,178
answer to anything yeah and and then and when you come down to it often they'll say well look

1576
01:51:35,178 --> 01:51:41,578
you're the one who needs to prove the burden of who has the burden of proof and i i think no i'm

1577
01:51:41,578 --> 01:51:47,058
not you're the one saying it's flat oh no i'm not i'm just saying we don't know what it is

1578
01:51:47,058 --> 01:51:53,118
and it's like okay and i agree we i can't prove to you what it is but i can look at a bunch of

1579
01:51:53,118 --> 01:51:59,558
probabilities and one of the probabilities is with a telescope and my eye i can look at other

1580
01:51:59,558 --> 01:52:06,498
balls in the sky so what's the likelihood that all the other ones are balls but we're not that

1581
01:52:06,498 --> 01:52:12,278
would seem weird yeah i mean but but it could be i mean maybe this is a construction i don't know

1582
01:52:12,278 --> 01:52:18,458
which is what some people think and maybe like you you gave an example earlier of of um dolphins

1583
01:52:18,458 --> 01:52:22,618
knowing that dolphins could move through three dimensions,

1584
01:52:23,478 --> 01:52:26,898
but they do hit the firmament when they get to the top, don't they?

1585
01:52:27,138 --> 01:52:28,198
Well, they can jump above it.

1586
01:52:28,318 --> 01:52:28,518
Yeah.

1587
01:52:28,878 --> 01:52:31,198
Apparently, you can get a little bit above the firmament as well.

1588
01:52:31,578 --> 01:52:33,938
So the original subject is what do I think?

1589
01:52:34,098 --> 01:52:35,818
What I love about this conference

1590
01:52:35,818 --> 01:52:40,738
is that in order to be a libertarian in Europe,

1591
01:52:40,738 --> 01:52:42,818
you have to be a rigorous thinker.

1592
01:52:43,078 --> 01:52:44,658
You have to have read Mises.

1593
01:52:44,658 --> 01:52:49,518
it's hard to be such a contrarian.

1594
01:52:50,558 --> 01:52:52,758
You show up here, you're a successful person,

1595
01:52:52,858 --> 01:52:54,358
you're good at life, you know how to think,

1596
01:52:54,418 --> 01:52:56,538
you understand something that other people don't understand,

1597
01:52:57,058 --> 01:52:58,838
and then you're going to practically approach

1598
01:52:58,838 --> 01:53:02,478
as a businessman, as a lawyer, as an investor,

1599
01:53:02,478 --> 01:53:05,158
how do we arrange startup societies?

1600
01:53:06,858 --> 01:53:09,438
That's because you're a philosophical libertarian

1601
01:53:09,438 --> 01:53:10,778
if you're a European.

1602
01:53:10,778 --> 01:53:36,098
In the US, libertarianism is sort of in the DNA. So if like 1% of Americans are true libertarians, 0.01% of Europeans are true libertarians. So you might be a libertarian in the US just because you're a contrarian and you have passionate beliefs and you also think the earth is flat and people turn into lizard people.

1603
01:53:36,098 --> 01:53:41,518
And so mixed in with rigorous philosophers are completely kooky people.

1604
01:53:41,718 --> 01:53:43,738
And they're all given talks on the same stage.

1605
01:53:44,058 --> 01:53:51,358
And when I talked, and guess who gave me the standing ovation when I showed Chad and Nadia's Seastead was the Anarchapulco audience.

1606
01:53:51,458 --> 01:53:55,138
They couldn't, it was the most enthusiastic audience I've ever, I've ever met.

1607
01:53:55,198 --> 01:53:57,098
So I'm like, oh, the kooks, I fit in with them.

1608
01:53:57,438 --> 01:54:01,198
But mixed in there are the type of people that are on the edge.

1609
01:54:01,378 --> 01:54:03,998
And it's the same reason I used to go to Burning Man.

1610
01:54:03,998 --> 01:54:11,158
like a lot of crazy people are very creative and they come up with wonderful art most artists

1611
01:54:11,158 --> 01:54:19,658
believe wacky things um i don't think though pound for pound at anarcho-porco you meet i think you

1612
01:54:19,658 --> 01:54:25,518
meet the very outlandish the kind of grant remonts but if you come to the free cities conference you

1613
01:54:25,518 --> 01:54:31,698
meet a lot of very proficient builders who can achieve stuff but you you might not get that

1614
01:54:31,698 --> 01:54:38,998
absolutely crazy outlier like grant you know yeah that's the other thing exactly i don't think i i

1615
01:54:38,998 --> 01:54:45,438
would meet grant here grant has to be last year but but he had to be invited yeah you know i i had

1616
01:54:45,438 --> 01:54:51,418
to convince him to do seasteading i had to sell him to to the free cities why was he on his way

1617
01:54:51,418 --> 01:54:58,518
to an arcapulco then before because i think well i i think he believes he's in that ideology he

1618
01:54:58,518 --> 01:55:02,598
likes the water and i think he likes but that wasn't a sea steady thing and arcapulco is like

1619
01:55:02,598 --> 01:55:06,858
he didn't do anything everything yeah yeah it's about anarchy it's the philosophy of anarchy yeah

1620
01:55:06,858 --> 01:55:12,858
um and i and grant is attracted to new ideas and new innovations and that's the place to

1621
01:55:12,858 --> 01:55:16,398
meet people like grant but to meet people like grant you have to meet

1622
01:55:16,398 --> 01:55:21,998
some wacky people as well and some of those wacky people are a lot of fun

1623
01:55:21,998 --> 01:55:25,898
i don't know and then you have to really confront like wait a second

1624
01:55:25,898 --> 01:55:35,358
And, you know, it's good to say, to be in the presence of people that can argue for wacky ideas and see if you can defend your ideas.

1625
01:55:35,618 --> 01:55:36,678
I find that an excellent exercise.

1626
01:55:36,678 --> 01:55:45,938
Yeah, but arguing for a flat earth really just becomes arguing for, in my experience, you don't know anything, right?

1627
01:55:46,518 --> 01:55:48,238
That's kind of where you end up, right?

1628
01:55:48,478 --> 01:55:49,978
Which I kind of agree with.

1629
01:55:49,978 --> 01:55:56,838
because even if you said prove to me that that piece of paper is there i can't can i how do i

1630
01:55:56,838 --> 01:56:00,698
prove that piece of paper is there to you i don't know what you're seeing you might be looking at a

1631
01:56:00,698 --> 01:56:07,198
pink fish for all i know i might i might be some complete different construct and that's where it

1632
01:56:07,198 --> 01:56:12,858
goes and i don't find that very useful because we're trying to we're trying to find common ground

1633
01:56:12,858 --> 01:56:18,878
and if your common ground is nothing's provable yeah that's that's worthless there's no point in

1634
01:56:18,878 --> 01:56:24,818
you know so I've argued with people like that and defeated them go give me some

1635
01:56:24,818 --> 01:56:29,398
advice then because I I feel funny enough I did actually I think I by the

1636
01:56:29,398 --> 01:56:34,418
end of the conversation there was a point where the person did go quiet and

1637
01:56:34,418 --> 01:56:46,436
it was because he was showing me old Aztec maps that showed that the earth was round right I sorry the was flat but something like Aztec maps or something And I said dude Aztecs used to sacrifice babies as well

1638
01:56:47,056 --> 01:56:51,576
So it's not that they're necessarily a good source of maps, possibly.

1639
01:56:51,676 --> 01:56:52,856
They had a lot of strange beliefs.

1640
01:56:53,016 --> 01:56:54,996
Why would you use that as a...

1641
01:56:54,996 --> 01:56:57,416
You're using that as an authority.

1642
01:56:57,796 --> 01:57:01,136
That's not a good way to argue that, you know,

1643
01:57:01,136 --> 01:57:04,636
there's a... the earth is flat because of this map.

1644
01:57:04,996 --> 01:57:28,136
Yeah. So I'll give you the, I've destroyed people's paradigms. If you're young and you don't have much experience with how beliefs are developed, it's very seductive to get pulled in by this kind of neo-Marxist postmodernist, nothing is true, proved to me that piece of paper is really there. See, you can't do it. Therefore, everything is bullshit.

1645
01:57:28,136 --> 01:57:38,016
it. So I lived in Berkeley. I was working on my evolutionary psychology book. A Foucault expert

1646
01:57:38,016 --> 01:57:46,496
became my housemate. Lovely guy. Gay guy, loved Foucault, and he was there on a scholarship to

1647
01:57:46,496 --> 01:57:53,296
get a PhD in Foucault. And he had a patronizing approach where he finally broke it to me. He's

1648
01:57:53,296 --> 01:58:01,576
like, Joe, you can't say that the purpose of sexuality is to pass on your genes. I mean,

1649
01:58:01,616 --> 01:58:04,316
you just can't, because we can't really say any of these things. And if you read Fuku,

1650
01:58:04,456 --> 01:58:11,056
you know why this is true. It took probably five minutes of him like, well, I'm, you know,

1651
01:58:11,056 --> 01:58:17,576
I'm gay and I have jack off my friend. And it just, all you know is it's, and I remember what

1652
01:58:17,576 --> 01:58:24,476
I said to him is, yeah, but in the male, the thing that's squirting somewhere is a gamete

1653
01:58:24,476 --> 01:58:26,816
that's split in half and has half the genes.

1654
01:58:26,896 --> 01:58:29,136
It's the only cell in your body that has half the genes.

1655
01:58:29,136 --> 01:58:34,696
And in the female, the lubrication to the passageway to her gamete is also half the

1656
01:58:34,696 --> 01:58:35,036
genes.

1657
01:58:35,656 --> 01:58:42,576
So can we infer that, you know, a lubricated passage to an egg and squirting something

1658
01:58:42,576 --> 01:58:49,236
out of your body out of a tube that biology has designed this to bring together the gametes to

1659
01:58:49,236 --> 01:58:52,976
have children, you know, and I thought we were going to keep going back and forth.

1660
01:58:53,376 --> 01:58:59,456
And I couldn't believe how easy it was. Like I watched, I'll tell you what I felt when the

1661
01:58:59,456 --> 01:59:07,356
silence that occurred, I felt guilt because his face was like everything he had been doing

1662
01:59:07,356 --> 01:59:12,956
academically was destroyed um and his and then here's what here was the best part he like

1663
01:59:12,956 --> 01:59:20,856
struggled and i'm feeling guilty and he goes look i'm gay and uh you know when i read fuko he went

1664
01:59:20,856 --> 01:59:30,296
straight to identity or to fuko to someone else i i'm gay yeah and this guy says and so fuko is

1665
01:59:30,296 --> 01:59:35,896
motivated by the same thing all this philosophy is motivated by your primal feelings so fuko was a

1666
01:59:35,896 --> 01:59:37,416
a young kid who,

1667
01:59:37,556 --> 01:59:41,736
who realized he was gay and was really into pain and sadomasochistic stuff.

1668
01:59:41,856 --> 01:59:42,836
And so he's like,

1669
01:59:42,876 --> 01:59:44,316
I don't fit in with the world.

1670
01:59:44,416 --> 01:59:45,556
The world rejects me.

1671
01:59:46,076 --> 01:59:47,256
Everyone looks down on me.

1672
01:59:47,496 --> 01:59:47,936
You know what?

1673
01:59:47,956 --> 01:59:52,396
I'm going to develop a philosophy showing that all value is subjective and

1674
01:59:52,396 --> 01:59:53,416
everything is wrong.

1675
01:59:53,416 --> 01:59:53,956
And I want to,

1676
01:59:54,036 --> 01:59:57,656
I'm going to go out and have sex while I have AIDS and not tell anyone

1677
01:59:57,656 --> 01:59:59,536
because sex is death because nothing is true.

1678
01:59:59,916 --> 02:00:00,356
It's,

1679
02:00:00,416 --> 02:00:05,096
it's all this elaboration of the fact that he felt rejected as a young,

1680
02:00:05,096 --> 02:00:11,136
teenage male who wasn't fitting in and realizing he was never going to be married and that he got

1681
02:00:11,136 --> 02:00:15,696
off on pain and all this sort of stuff. And my friend is the same thing. And then he's able to

1682
02:00:15,696 --> 02:00:21,256
read, as a young man, he's able to read Foucault, who's incoherent, but he seems smart. He seems

1683
02:00:21,256 --> 02:00:26,736
like he can deconstruct everything. It's easy to deconstruct, but you can construct a view.

1684
02:00:26,736 --> 02:00:33,756
And since I had learned a lot about evolutionary psychology and would write a book about it that

1685
02:00:33,756 --> 02:00:40,036
would be translated into 17 languages. I was becoming an expert like this. And I also used

1686
02:00:40,036 --> 02:00:45,836
to argue on behalf of evolution, and I did this in the heart of UC Berkeley. So I was often faced

1687
02:00:45,836 --> 02:00:52,196
with people that wanted to argue that nothing is true. So I had to learn how to argue in a Dawkins

1688
02:00:52,196 --> 02:00:56,896
like matter. How do we determine what's true? How do we use evidence? How do we marshal this?

1689
02:00:56,896 --> 02:01:03,436
It's more difficult, but when the postmodernist is faced with it, it's formidable and it's pretty

1690
02:01:03,436 --> 02:01:10,756
easy i've even been in situations where i'm tag teamed by marxists and and you know their wives

1691
02:01:10,756 --> 02:01:16,316
sitting in the room are like yeah this guy's winning the argument so my my idea of pointing

1692
02:01:16,316 --> 02:01:23,076
out that simple things like because the the visible planets in our solar system are round

1693
02:01:23,076 --> 02:01:29,416
it's highly likely that our planet is round is that the same kind of argument like you say

1694
02:01:29,416 --> 02:01:37,156
you have to use relevance you have to use kind of like likelihoods you know it's like what's more

1695
02:01:37,156 --> 02:01:41,936
likely like you know yes especially so you know the other thing is you're dealing with that

1696
02:01:41,936 --> 02:01:46,116
particular person their belief so you're discovering each other's beliefs and assumptions as you go

1697
02:01:46,116 --> 02:01:51,216
so you got to speak directly to them which is different from from performing before a crowd

1698
02:01:51,216 --> 02:01:54,936
was all that stuff in your in your book the one what was it called men are from

1699
02:01:54,936 --> 02:02:01,536
uh sperma from men eggs are from women the real reason men and women are different do you know

1700
02:02:01,536 --> 02:02:07,696
last night um i was having dinner with lotta and she said it made her laugh out loud that book

1701
02:02:07,696 --> 02:02:15,356
yeah is it really funny i've not read it is it yeah i i uh my books can never fit into categories

1702
02:02:15,356 --> 02:02:22,276
which really works against them but i i'm proud of it it's a humor uh relationships and science book

1703
02:02:22,276 --> 02:02:27,756
evolutionary psychology evolutionary psychology yeah i didn't know it was funny though i thought

1704
02:02:27,756 --> 02:02:33,076
it was a bit more like you know here are the facts no it's it's meant to be funny it's it's

1705
02:02:33,076 --> 02:02:38,196
meant to make difficult truths go down so did you use that example about sperms and tubes and

1706
02:02:38,196 --> 02:02:43,276
eggs and is that no that that was i wasn't trying to be funny i mean even though it is funny yeah

1707
02:02:43,276 --> 02:02:49,416
no there's some you know there's so much stuff i've done some i i toured college campuses and

1708
02:02:49,416 --> 02:02:56,176
spoke about this 15, 20 years ago. People can't believe this. I spoke about the biology of male

1709
02:02:56,176 --> 02:03:03,936
and female sexuality. My presentation was illustrated by Pixar for free. So I've had

1710
02:03:03,936 --> 02:03:09,836
Pixar cartoons illustrating my points. And I talked about the biology of transsexuality. I

1711
02:03:09,836 --> 02:03:14,476
talked about the biology of homosexuality. I talked about... Was this pre-woke?

1712
02:03:14,476 --> 02:03:19,856
Yeah, I tell this story to show how widely the pendulum swings.

1713
02:03:20,496 --> 02:03:24,616
Because in the 70s, they were completely against these views.

1714
02:03:24,956 --> 02:03:30,976
And they famously dumped a bucket of water over E.O. Wilson's head when he spoke about sociobiology.

1715
02:03:32,416 --> 02:03:35,856
And then 20 years later, I'm touring college campuses.

1716
02:03:36,116 --> 02:03:37,076
And the teachers love it.

1717
02:03:37,116 --> 02:03:37,856
The kids love it.

1718
02:03:37,856 --> 02:03:49,236
I can see their faces lighting up as I described the Madonna whore complex and the hot bad boy safe nice guy complex and why that's true, why you're conflicted and why the other sex is different.

1719
02:03:49,456 --> 02:03:52,656
And I wish I had known this when I was 18, but I'm going to explain it to you.

1720
02:03:52,716 --> 02:03:54,416
And here's a here's an image.

1721
02:03:54,896 --> 02:04:00,896
And then again, 15 years later, the pendulum swings right back and someone like me gets excommunicated.

1722
02:04:01,536 --> 02:04:07,676
And all of a sudden, you know, it's like 15 years after the book comes out, it's getting all five star reviews on Amazon.

1723
02:04:07,856 --> 02:04:11,416
And all of a sudden there's all these out of nowhere,

1724
02:04:11,756 --> 02:04:12,996
the book has a very long tail.

1725
02:04:13,236 --> 02:04:16,456
People are saying this guy's a sexist and he's a essentialist and he's a.

1726
02:04:17,116 --> 02:04:19,516
It's going back the other way now though, apparently, isn't it?

1727
02:04:19,716 --> 02:04:23,256
And I guess you might be on for another tour, mate,

1728
02:04:23,336 --> 02:04:25,556
talking about sociobiology again.

1729
02:04:26,316 --> 02:04:26,576
Yeah.

1730
02:04:26,676 --> 02:04:31,096
So I have a lot of experience with writing a book about an unconventional

1731
02:04:31,096 --> 02:04:33,476
topic and then having to get out there and argue with people.

1732
02:04:33,716 --> 02:04:33,956
Yeah.

1733
02:04:35,136 --> 02:04:36,016
And it's doable.

1734
02:04:36,016 --> 02:04:38,776
So if you wrote a book about why the earth is round

1735
02:04:39,616 --> 02:04:42,616
You know, we could take another example. How the hell did I fly here?

1736
02:04:42,616 --> 02:04:45,196
Did you look at the map of how you flew here? Was it a straight line?

1737
02:04:45,196 --> 02:04:47,256
Or was it doing this big weird curve?

1738
02:04:48,016 --> 02:04:53,536
No, but that's you didn't see that though. Did you you saw it on a computer screen? No, I know all the answers

1739
02:04:53,536 --> 02:05:05,534
Yeah that in fact the the the flying one is actually one of the strongest arguments for the flat earth When you look at flight routes I don know I not checked this out but this guy was telling me like look at flight routes

1740
02:05:06,254 --> 02:05:09,134
Why do you fly to America via here?

1741
02:05:09,774 --> 02:05:14,054
And the answer is because it's the shortest distance on a flat Earth.

1742
02:05:14,714 --> 02:05:16,354
And it's an unusual route.

1743
02:05:16,354 --> 02:05:22,494
I mean, when I've flown, like I have flown from Scotland to the US on a small plane.

1744
02:05:22,494 --> 02:05:28,734
and we flow all the way up through iceland up across the arctic right down because we wanted

1745
02:05:28,734 --> 02:05:34,714
to be near the land in case we fell out of the sky basically and and also so you can refuel it

1746
02:05:34,714 --> 02:05:42,334
took 10 days you have to you have to fly you know that route so that you you can keep refueling

1747
02:05:42,334 --> 02:05:47,614
because in a small a small aircraft but oh a small aircraft yeah but big aircraft yeah he he he showed

1748
02:05:47,614 --> 02:05:52,474
me a map and he said look when you fly from and i can't remember which place it was somewhere to

1749
02:05:52,474 --> 02:05:59,554
say somewhere in the US. They fly via here. Now on the globe, it looks a bit weird, but on a flat

1750
02:05:59,554 --> 02:06:04,534
earth, it's the most direct route. See, my experience is it's exactly the opposite of what

1751
02:06:04,534 --> 02:06:09,614
he's saying. You don't fly in a straight line if it's a flat earth. You fly in this big, weird curve.

1752
02:06:10,394 --> 02:06:16,194
Now you don't really fly in a straight line. If you transfer, you often have to fly to the next

1753
02:06:16,194 --> 02:06:22,974
best airport where you can transfer but if it's if you're flying across um you know from the from

1754
02:06:22,974 --> 02:06:30,434
san francisco to prague which is what i did you're doing this bizarre curve that makes no sense on a

1755
02:06:30,434 --> 02:06:35,254
flat does it i don't know what about what am i going one of the other arguments was that

1756
02:06:35,254 --> 02:06:43,534
when you fly a plane you're not constantly dipping the the the front down is that true

1757
02:06:43,534 --> 02:06:48,774
like on a flat earth you would just fly like that on a round earth conceivably you'd have to keep

1758
02:06:48,774 --> 02:06:54,254
no because because because gravity is just is just keeping you yeah prove it like this prove it mate

1759
02:06:54,254 --> 02:07:03,074
you can't see well well i can keep going deeper and explain because i used to hang glide i i know

1760
02:07:03,074 --> 02:07:09,874
uh about lift and thrust and and uh how it works you're basically falling the whole time you're

1761
02:07:09,874 --> 02:07:16,134
using gravity to fly. Yeah, but that's a whole thing, actually. Gravity, that's being completely,

1762
02:07:16,714 --> 02:07:22,094
in the flat earth world, gravity doesn't exist. Gravity is something else. I forget what it is.

1763
02:07:22,294 --> 02:07:26,734
So that's how you steadily win. If you're stuck in a car with a guy and it's not about performing

1764
02:07:26,734 --> 02:07:31,714
for other people, so it's just you and him talking. No, it's me trying to just, I'm challenging

1765
02:07:31,714 --> 02:07:39,314
myself because I could believe in flat earth. You can convince me. I just know that my brain

1766
02:07:39,314 --> 02:07:46,554
looks at likelihoods in in in cases when i can't really prove anything like the the most classic

1767
02:07:46,554 --> 02:07:53,454
one and a lot of people don't like this is what's more likely the virgin birth as in like if you look

1768
02:07:53,454 --> 02:08:01,934
in the bible or a woman lied yeah that's a great yeah like so the virgin birth the one and only

1769
02:08:01,934 --> 02:08:08,034
time in the history of the world that a woman gave birth without having sex or she told a little fib

1770
02:08:08,034 --> 02:08:17,374
and the same goes for flat earth it's like i can see too many things that would suggest that would

1771
02:08:17,374 --> 02:08:24,134
infer that the earth's round right and and not not scientific stuff just like you know the moon

1772
02:08:24,134 --> 02:08:28,474
looks pretty round to me and i've looked at it through very high good telescopes and i've watched

1773
02:08:28,474 --> 02:08:32,994
it slowly turning like this and you can see it in real time you can see shadows you can see all

1774
02:08:32,994 --> 02:08:41,194
kinds of stuff. And what you do with the flat earthers is you keep piling on these and compelling

1775
02:08:41,194 --> 02:08:46,974
them to say, okay, well, there's a conspiracy there too. And the airlines are lying and the

1776
02:08:46,974 --> 02:08:52,254
government's lying about the moon. And they drive that curve. They fly that curve just so they can

1777
02:08:52,254 --> 02:08:58,094
prove to you. And it's like, well, you have to keep suggesting more people engaged in the

1778
02:08:58,094 --> 02:09:02,834
conspiracy than there are who believe in it. So, so you have to keep going and you can,

1779
02:09:02,994 --> 02:09:05,874
you can do all this. Well, the conspiracy thing is the least,

1780
02:09:06,114 --> 02:09:12,994
the least believable part of it. You know, that side that, that it's a conspiracy that it's a

1781
02:09:12,994 --> 02:09:17,894
flat earth, not that, you know, but do you know what, what is interesting though? And I don't know

1782
02:09:17,894 --> 02:09:24,554
the answer to this is the moon is quite interesting and the moon's distance from the sun, from the

1783
02:09:24,554 --> 02:09:31,434
earth and the moon's distance from the sun matching as in when you get a sort of solar eclipse

1784
02:09:31,434 --> 02:09:38,154
that is that's really interesting that does make me think that that either there's a there's a

1785
02:09:38,154 --> 02:09:42,234
there's a physics at work there that we don't really understand or that it was parked there

1786
02:09:42,234 --> 02:09:47,174
on purpose yeah which it could it could have been parked there like we don't actually know whether

1787
02:09:47,174 --> 02:09:50,954
you can move planets around it you know people might be able to do that almost certainly they

1788
02:09:50,954 --> 02:09:56,214
can do that actually yeah so yeah if I was a conspiracy theory you put your finger on a really

1789
02:09:56,214 --> 02:10:02,334
great example of a bizarre coincidence that the the size of the moon is perfectly aligned to just

1790
02:10:02,334 --> 02:10:07,454
perfectly cover the sun during the eclipse and there's no reason that has to be true yeah uh and

1791
02:10:07,454 --> 02:10:13,494
that's not true in other moon systems it's very bizarre yeah yeah uh so it's like well what about

1792
02:10:13,494 --> 02:10:19,434
that and you're gonna say that's just a coincidence well you can think it's he I can believe it's a

1793
02:10:19,434 --> 02:10:25,334
coincidence because everything is possible and there's not that many other major coincidences

1794
02:10:25,334 --> 02:10:30,474
like that so it would be it would it would prove the rule a coincidence is very unlikely but you

1795
02:10:30,474 --> 02:10:34,954
don't see lots of them you see very few of them there's one of them it happens to be a big one

1796
02:10:34,954 --> 02:10:41,394
yeah but but how many other things were we were we factoring into that equation yeah you know like

1797
02:10:41,394 --> 02:10:47,754
you know there's so many things that could like we could have turned up today wearing exactly the

1798
02:10:47,754 --> 02:10:52,114
same clothes but we didn't we didn't even think about it so therefore we didn't even include that

1799
02:10:52,114 --> 02:10:58,654
in our data set yeah but but the the fact that the moon is i think it's even 108 times the size

1800
02:10:58,654 --> 02:11:03,674
or something and the distance you know whatever it's got some interesting numbers it's got some

1801
02:11:03,674 --> 02:11:09,934
interesting numbers attached to it as well yeah um but yeah the so yeah an arcopulco you you

1802
02:11:09,934 --> 02:11:12,194
you're a fan?

1803
02:11:13,274 --> 02:11:14,374
I went once.

1804
02:11:14,934 --> 02:11:19,454
I was on his podcast and described why I'm an anarchist and all that.

1805
02:11:21,194 --> 02:11:26,274
And yeah, I mean, now that things are moving forward,

1806
02:11:26,274 --> 02:11:28,874
I want to focus more on people that are doing things.

1807
02:11:29,094 --> 02:11:32,254
But when I was in a more exploratory period of my life,

1808
02:11:33,094 --> 02:11:35,674
I went to Burning Man, I went to the weird places,

1809
02:11:35,834 --> 02:11:37,294
I exposed myself to new things.

1810
02:11:37,294 --> 02:11:39,314
I even moved from the East Coast to California.

1811
02:11:39,934 --> 02:11:42,174
Because I'm high on openness to experience.

1812
02:11:42,794 --> 02:11:46,354
But now that we're moving forward, I want to talk to the Free Cities community,

1813
02:11:46,354 --> 02:11:51,754
which is much more rigorous and much more rational and much more practical and more sane.

1814
02:11:51,754 --> 02:12:00,694
Something else that somebody told me yesterday who is a kind of finance person was that things are changing in our space

1815
02:12:00,694 --> 02:12:05,714
from a sort of backer's perspective, from a VC's perspective.

1816
02:12:06,134 --> 02:12:07,154
And that's noticeable.

1817
02:12:07,154 --> 02:12:15,714
so and that person mentioned to me also um other examples of industries which are a little bit ahead

1818
02:12:15,714 --> 02:12:22,894
of us like the longevity biotech industry is now becoming quite trendy to back

1819
02:12:22,894 --> 02:12:30,094
and that person that told me this thing is also saying according to them what we're seeing in the

1820
02:12:30,094 --> 02:12:36,294
free cities play space is that at the very early stages of that same experience, which is,

1821
02:12:36,474 --> 02:12:41,554
um, it's cool to invest in free cities. You know what I mean? It's like, it's a, it's a,

1822
02:12:41,594 --> 02:12:46,534
it's a thing that you do now. Oh, let's, let's, you know, and, and obviously seasteading is

1823
02:12:46,534 --> 02:12:51,114
almost certainly a part of that. I've always thought from the earliest time I heard about

1824
02:12:51,114 --> 02:12:55,294
seasteading, I said, the way to pay for this and the way to push forward innovation is biotech labs

1825
02:12:55,294 --> 02:12:57,254
on Seasteads.

1826
02:12:57,254 --> 02:13:02,254
And a guy who worked for a pharmaceutical company

1827
02:13:03,494 --> 02:13:06,054
reached out to me, I don't know if I told you this story,

1828
02:13:06,954 --> 02:13:11,754
and said, can you get me a Seastead to develop a drug on?

1829
02:13:11,754 --> 02:13:15,094
He's like, because my company will spend a billion dollars

1830
02:13:15,094 --> 02:13:16,254
on one drug.

1831
02:13:17,394 --> 02:13:19,974
And he's like, a lot of that is just regular,

1832
02:13:19,992 --> 02:13:24,632
regulations where we have to go through these stupid mouse models before we, you know, make

1833
02:13:24,632 --> 02:13:30,172
something that's catered to, you know, an individual human. He's like, we still have to do that. He's

1834
02:13:30,172 --> 02:13:36,072
like, but if we could get outside the system and go out on the sea with a floating lab and narrow

1835
02:13:36,072 --> 02:13:44,932
down the options of what we have to explore and figure out, you know, reduce the things we have

1836
02:13:44,932 --> 02:13:48,912
to explore so we know where we're going before we come back to the U.S. and run it through the

1837
02:13:48,912 --> 02:13:57,232
regulations, you could save my company $100 million. That guy ended up going to law school

1838
02:13:57,232 --> 02:14:04,072
to also become a lawyer to figure out how to do this. So the fact that that, and that guy stayed

1839
02:14:04,072 --> 02:14:11,012
in touch with me and has checked in with me over, you know, five, six years, contemplating whether

1840
02:14:11,012 --> 02:14:16,012
Seasteads can someday in the future, save pharmaceuticals companies a lot of money.

1841
02:14:16,992 --> 02:14:23,932
Now, in my Seasteading book, I originally had a whole biotech section about how Seasteads are going to extend your life.

1842
02:14:24,712 --> 02:14:37,592
I spoke to three biotech entrepreneurs who gave me really great interviews about why they want to push forward their innovations on Seasteads.

1843
02:14:38,072 --> 02:14:44,672
And over the course of the year, as I was finishing up the book, they all independently at some point contacted me and said,

1844
02:14:44,672 --> 02:14:49,292
yeah, you know, I've been thinking, I think I want to not be in your book, actually.

1845
02:14:49,912 --> 02:14:55,392
Yeah, I don't want the FDA looking at me. And I ended up having to take the biotech section out.

1846
02:14:56,132 --> 02:15:01,232
And it's like, isn't it funny? These guys are afraid of the FDA. They're afraid.

1847
02:15:02,212 --> 02:15:06,672
And when we were, I don't know if I told you this story either, but when we were

1848
02:15:06,672 --> 02:15:15,892
planning something in French Polynesia. In San Francisco, a group of physicians and medical

1849
02:15:15,892 --> 02:15:21,132
entrepreneurs rented out a whole restaurant in the middle of the night, like a dozen of them,

1850
02:15:21,752 --> 02:15:26,812
so they could meet with me and some other seasteaders about, hey, you know, if you could get us

1851
02:15:26,812 --> 02:15:31,472
something outside the system that's floating on the ocean. It's funny, they didn't know anything

1852
02:15:31,472 --> 02:15:34,872
about seasteading. They're like, they assume we must already have something floating.

1853
02:15:34,872 --> 02:15:42,352
but the fact that they were so serious so secretive and so afraid of being discovered

1854
02:15:42,352 --> 02:15:46,632
because they think they can extend healthy lifespans and human beings and they hope

1855
02:15:46,632 --> 02:15:51,232
seasteaders can help them i'm like man there's going to be a market for this there's going to

1856
02:15:51,232 --> 02:15:57,132
be a market for because the regulations don't monopoly regulations don't evolve with the

1857
02:15:57,132 --> 02:16:00,572
technologies they're regulating and a lot of the rules don't make sense and they're expensive

1858
02:16:00,572 --> 02:16:07,952
why don't they just do that on boats um well from what the pharmaceutical guy told me is

1859
02:16:07,952 --> 02:16:14,372
you need something that's very very stable oh like he has all he was doing unbelievable research

1860
02:16:14,372 --> 02:16:19,012
like whether you could even get a lab and in some kind of saltwater environment and how much

1861
02:16:19,012 --> 02:16:22,732
stability you would need it's a very smart guy doing a lot of work trying to figure it out on

1862
02:16:22,732 --> 02:16:28,192
his own and telling me don't tell anyone i'm talking to you um so i'm just talking about

1863
02:16:28,192 --> 02:16:34,532
biotech entrepreneurs for a while were the people banging on our doors saying where's my damn seastead

1864
02:16:34,532 --> 02:16:42,132
so as a non-expert it's led me to believe if we really want to extend human lifespans we need

1865
02:16:42,132 --> 02:16:47,212
seasteads because doing it on land is tough we better wrap up soon because i've got unfortunately

1866
02:16:47,212 --> 02:16:53,492
another guest coming in but um i want to go back to what we originally started talking about which

1867
02:16:53,492 --> 02:17:02,592
was there's a there's a new sort of renewed interest in everything free cities but seasteading

1868
02:17:02,592 --> 02:17:09,512
certainly and it's because of the new things that seem to have all come to a head in the last year

1869
02:17:09,512 --> 02:17:18,012
suddenly prototypes ideas what what's your view as probably someone who's the most connected with

1870
02:17:18,012 --> 02:17:23,472
all the different projects and stuff you don't know you're achieving something until 99%

1871
02:17:23,472 --> 02:17:30,552
percent of people hate you. I think seasteaders are there. They're not laughing at us. Now they're

1872
02:17:30,552 --> 02:17:36,152
afraid. And then that 1% gets inspired and gets involved. The grants of the world, the Mitchells

1873
02:17:36,152 --> 02:17:41,712
of the world, the Masons of the world. There's more and more of them spending millions to build

1874
02:17:41,712 --> 02:17:46,432
seasteads. And there's more and more maritime lawyers volunteering their time. There's lawyers

1875
02:17:46,432 --> 02:17:50,952
who work with flagging registries volunteering their time. What's fascinating about it is in

1876
02:17:50,952 --> 02:18:00,052
every case don't tell my colleagues i'm talking to you um if if if the if people are threatened

1877
02:18:00,052 --> 02:18:05,012
by what you're doing you're getting somewhere but what about your opinion on what needs to happen

1878
02:18:05,012 --> 02:18:11,952
sooner rather than later then for me i think the solution is seasteading no i mean in the industry

1879
02:18:11,952 --> 02:18:18,272
like what are the main what are the main hurdles that you have ahead of you what i have ahead of

1880
02:18:18,272 --> 02:18:24,872
me is I need a legal ecosystem for Mitchell and Mason to send their seasteads where they are safe.

1881
02:18:25,532 --> 02:18:30,432
They're safe for families. I want to integrate. Seasteads are radical enough. I want to integrate

1882
02:18:30,432 --> 02:18:37,732
it into international law. We've graduated from the pioneers to the businessmen that are just

1883
02:18:37,732 --> 02:18:42,272
going to sell you a product. And yesterday, those products went on sale for the first time.

1884
02:18:42,272 --> 02:18:48,012
and I need them to be safe, insured and legal on the oceans.

1885
02:18:48,572 --> 02:18:49,292
I want a flag.

1886
02:18:50,292 --> 02:18:52,932
So the Seastead Institute needs to raise the money

1887
02:18:52,932 --> 02:18:56,572
to hopefully control the certification society

1888
02:18:56,572 --> 02:19:00,632
that will make Seasteads safe and legal on two-thirds of the Earth's surface.

1889
02:19:01,152 --> 02:19:02,272
How is...

1890
02:19:03,132 --> 02:19:07,352
Do Grant's ones need classification?

1891
02:19:08,312 --> 02:19:09,132
Yes, but...

1892
02:19:09,132 --> 02:19:21,806
But how come he building them in the Seychelles or whatever Because he still doing everything within the territorial waters of a country There a bureaucratic roadblock which you described really well actually

1893
02:19:22,166 --> 02:19:24,166
which is once it's moved out there,

1894
02:19:24,246 --> 02:19:25,646
what is the status of this thing?

1895
02:19:25,706 --> 02:19:27,026
Are you going to declare that a pirate?

1896
02:19:27,766 --> 02:19:31,686
Because as it is, if you don't integrate into the system,

1897
02:19:32,346 --> 02:19:34,506
anyone can board you and you have no protection.

1898
02:19:35,886 --> 02:19:39,266
Also, I want to be protected from the crazy cowboys

1899
02:19:39,266 --> 02:19:40,846
that do risky things.

1900
02:19:42,006 --> 02:19:44,246
You know, I want to be able to say

1901
02:19:44,246 --> 02:19:46,366
there's a certification process,

1902
02:19:46,606 --> 02:19:48,126
there's an insurer that will insure you

1903
02:19:48,126 --> 02:19:50,346
and a flagging registry that will flag you.

1904
02:19:50,486 --> 02:19:52,406
And now I feel safe saying your grandma

1905
02:19:52,406 --> 02:19:55,106
and your infant can go stay on this CSET

1906
02:19:55,106 --> 02:19:55,886
and they'll be safe.

1907
02:19:56,166 --> 02:19:58,506
Won't the market provide that though, eventually?

1908
02:19:59,046 --> 02:20:01,286
Because initially you could have guys

1909
02:20:01,286 --> 02:20:03,866
that don't flag, don't insure, don't certify

1910
02:20:03,866 --> 02:20:06,606
and just go out like Samuele Landy.

1911
02:20:06,626 --> 02:20:07,826
Yeah, but that's their problem.

1912
02:20:07,826 --> 02:20:12,926
I mean, they will just end up getting boarded and sunk or whatever, which has already happened, right?

1913
02:20:13,406 --> 02:20:19,386
So what I mean is, won't Grant at some point realize, well, look, this thing's taken off.

1914
02:20:19,446 --> 02:20:21,386
I need to get classification for these things.

1915
02:20:21,446 --> 02:20:22,986
Therefore, I need to stump up the money.

1916
02:20:23,626 --> 02:20:23,726
Right.

1917
02:20:23,886 --> 02:20:29,026
But he does all that within the system of being in territorial waters so far.

1918
02:20:29,026 --> 02:20:30,766
Yeah, but when he moves out, I mean, eventually.

1919
02:20:31,626 --> 02:20:37,506
It'd be good if it was the Seasteading Institute, but I suspect the market will provide in the end.

1920
02:20:37,506 --> 02:20:44,886
I would love it. I would love if a normal certification society says, okay, we're going to integrate Seasteads.

1921
02:20:45,646 --> 02:20:54,626
No, but they'd pay for it. I mean, Grant will pay for it because if he wants his product to travel into international waters, he needs it.

1922
02:20:54,806 --> 02:20:59,946
Yes. And Mitchell needs it. And Mitchell's kind of relying on us. I mean, both Mitchell and Mason.

1923
02:21:01,126 --> 02:21:02,426
Mason doesn't need it, actually.

1924
02:21:02,426 --> 02:21:03,246
Mason doesn't need it.

1925
02:21:03,346 --> 02:21:03,466
Yeah.

1926
02:21:03,766 --> 02:21:05,366
He's a catamaran, right?

1927
02:21:05,366 --> 02:21:07,166
Yeah. He's going to fit into the catamaran category.

1928
02:21:07,166 --> 02:21:07,986
Yeah, he told me.

1929
02:21:09,086 --> 02:21:16,126
But presumably, the economy as it evolves will pay for that, because it'll have to.

1930
02:21:16,726 --> 02:21:22,226
But you want costs to be far enough down that it doesn't become impossible for a normal family to buy one.

1931
02:21:22,226 --> 02:21:29,826
But also, if you classify, say, ARC pads and grants one, what's grants called?

1932
02:21:30,246 --> 02:21:30,566
CPOD.

1933
02:21:30,686 --> 02:21:31,166
CPOD.

1934
02:21:31,786 --> 02:21:35,686
If a new thing is invented, do you have to then get that classified as well?

1935
02:21:35,686 --> 02:21:40,786
If it's a fundamentally different structure, there may be different rules we want to apply to that.

1936
02:21:41,586 --> 02:21:42,106
But I think-

1937
02:21:42,106 --> 02:21:44,806
Does it cost as much or is it more like just an addition?

1938
02:21:45,546 --> 02:21:55,246
Well, what I'm worried about with existing classification societies is they're looking for a way to make a lot of money because they can already charge the oil and gas industry a lot of money.

1939
02:21:55,806 --> 02:22:00,346
So they can make it, oh, your first arc pad, you know, we'll just categorize that as a flotel.

1940
02:22:00,906 --> 02:22:04,266
And then you have $100,000 worth of regulations every year you have to deal with.

1941
02:22:04,266 --> 02:22:19,426
And I'm like, no, we want, I already have a team of volunteers that's combed through the regulations for buoys and different things and taken 5% and put them into one model that we think will apply to seasteads.

1942
02:22:19,486 --> 02:22:22,266
But it does depend on the type of structure.

1943
02:22:23,346 --> 02:22:27,826
The key thing that these things all have in common is that it's going to stay at sea.

1944
02:22:27,926 --> 02:22:29,306
It's not going to come to shore at all.

1945
02:22:29,306 --> 02:22:39,306
so it's kind of like a combination of a buoy a coral reef a flotel and a a spar so basically

1946
02:22:39,306 --> 02:22:47,966
i'm comparing our conversation last year the flat the classification thing hasn't moved on a huge

1947
02:22:47,966 --> 02:22:54,326
amount the prototypes and the the business models and all that stuff has right so you're still you're

1948
02:22:54,326 --> 02:22:59,206
still banging up against this problem of classification well we've learned a hell of a

1949
02:22:59,206 --> 02:23:05,246
lot in the last year the the businessmen are moving forward they they're funded the marine

1950
02:23:05,246 --> 02:23:10,586
engineers are moving forward they're funded the seasteading institute is moved as far as we can

1951
02:23:10,586 --> 02:23:15,366
get with volunteers because we need to 10x our budget because we've got to pay maritime lawyers

1952
02:23:15,366 --> 02:23:22,126
and lawyers with uh flagging registries to to make a classification to make these rules and to

1953
02:23:22,126 --> 02:23:27,586
negotiate with the people they already have relationships with. And they're not seasteaders,

1954
02:23:27,706 --> 02:23:32,046
they're professionals. And these are the people that want to make it happen. So yeah, the Seasteading

1955
02:23:32,046 --> 02:23:39,006
Institute needs the budget to get a flag for all seasteaders. And I'll tell you what, when I think

1956
02:23:39,006 --> 02:23:44,746
when we get this flag, maybe I'll just retire because that's when seasteading will start all

1957
02:23:44,746 --> 02:23:51,606
over the oceans. You'll have different people soliciting that flag, different aquapreneurs to

1958
02:23:51,606 --> 02:23:52,786
To get their Seastead out there.

1959
02:23:53,006 --> 02:23:57,946
And then you have other flagging registries competing to offer you different kind of governance models.

1960
02:23:58,066 --> 02:24:00,406
Is that supposed to be an incentive for us to donate?

1961
02:24:00,846 --> 02:24:01,226
Yes.

1962
02:24:01,366 --> 02:24:03,286
No, that you'll retire.

1963
02:24:05,166 --> 02:24:07,666
You said, when we get the flag, I'll retire.

1964
02:24:07,766 --> 02:24:10,046
I'm like, well, that's worth donating for, surely.

1965
02:24:10,586 --> 02:24:12,726
We never have to hear from Joe Quirk again.

1966
02:24:12,726 --> 02:24:17,206
If you want to get the Seavangelist to finally shut up, get us a flag.

1967
02:24:18,126 --> 02:24:19,626
Donate to the Seasteading Institute.

1968
02:24:19,626 --> 02:24:24,906
big money so we can pay the professionals. But you told me last year it's like millions,

1969
02:24:25,106 --> 02:24:29,646
right? Or a million or something. I'm constantly trying to figure it out because there's so many

1970
02:24:29,646 --> 02:24:37,526
roads you can take. So the best thing about going to these maritime conferences with real maritime

1971
02:24:37,526 --> 02:24:43,126
lawyers who I'm showing them Grand Seapod for the first time. First of all, they think my idea is not

1972
02:24:43,126 --> 02:24:48,186
crazy. That gives me a lot of confidence. But they also support the idea that I thought was too risky,

1973
02:24:48,186 --> 02:24:51,306
which is, you know what, you might need to just go out there and build it.

1974
02:24:52,186 --> 02:24:55,986
And just do it. And then provoke a conversation. And then get people involved.

1975
02:24:55,986 --> 02:25:00,186
And then there'll be an argument about how do we categorize these things, what do we do?

1976
02:25:00,946 --> 02:25:04,186
So there's always been sea sitters that take that approach, that just go out there

1977
02:25:04,186 --> 02:25:17,480
and do it and get people talking about it But I you know if we had done it the safe way the Thai Navy wouldn have attacked Chad and Nadia because that would have been an act of war against a flagged vessel

1978
02:25:18,260 --> 02:25:19,820
But since it was just a prototype

1979
02:25:19,820 --> 02:25:22,540
and they were in process of getting a flag for the next one,

1980
02:25:23,100 --> 02:25:24,860
there was no one to stand up for them.

1981
02:25:26,000 --> 02:25:29,060
Grant's model is intended to,

1982
02:25:30,560 --> 02:25:32,320
I mean, he's got two models, hasn't he?

1983
02:25:32,520 --> 02:25:34,560
One's intended to stay quite close

1984
02:25:34,560 --> 02:25:37,580
The other one's meant to go into international water, is it?

1985
02:25:37,980 --> 02:25:38,160
Yeah.

1986
02:25:38,560 --> 02:25:39,000
Right, okay.

1987
02:25:39,060 --> 02:25:40,060
So he's got one model.

1988
02:25:40,780 --> 02:25:43,080
And what about ARC pads?

1989
02:25:44,300 --> 02:25:48,520
ARC pads are intended to go, they're going to start close to land.

1990
02:25:49,340 --> 02:25:52,320
And hopefully the first one will be floating off the coast of Prospera.

1991
02:25:52,860 --> 02:25:57,460
He's also developing the business model, the aquaculture business to support ARC pads.

1992
02:25:58,040 --> 02:26:03,200
And he's already got stuff in the Philippines where people can come stay the night on his hexa farm.

1993
02:26:03,960 --> 02:26:06,060
So he's thinking about it systematically.

1994
02:26:06,340 --> 02:26:07,780
And the next step is to,

1995
02:26:07,940 --> 02:26:09,340
he's already got a sea mountain mind

1996
02:26:09,340 --> 02:26:10,580
off the coast of the Philippines.

1997
02:26:11,300 --> 02:26:11,680
Oh, wow.

1998
02:26:12,200 --> 02:26:13,280
A sea mountain.

1999
02:26:13,480 --> 02:26:16,300
A sea mountain is like a mountain in the sea

2000
02:26:16,300 --> 02:26:17,580
that doesn't break the surface.

2001
02:26:17,980 --> 02:26:19,720
So you can kind of anchor to it.

2002
02:26:20,260 --> 02:26:22,460
So those are probably the first places

2003
02:26:22,460 --> 02:26:23,380
seasteads will be.

2004
02:26:25,700 --> 02:26:27,480
And there's tens of thousands of those

2005
02:26:27,480 --> 02:26:28,200
all over the sea.

2006
02:26:28,740 --> 02:26:30,740
And some of them are very fat, flat,

2007
02:26:30,740 --> 02:26:38,720
you know 50 meters below the surface big giant mountains where you could build a city and some

2008
02:26:38,720 --> 02:26:43,000
of those are off the coast of brazil other off the coast of the seychelles islands lots of places to

2009
02:26:43,000 --> 02:26:50,780
build seastead cities so that's well that's the that's the answer then so you need some money

2010
02:26:50,780 --> 02:26:57,260
and they they're just chugging along as normal they got the money and so the maritime lawyers

2011
02:26:57,260 --> 02:27:01,520
are falling behind the businessmen and the engineers, and the maritime lawyers need to

2012
02:27:01,520 --> 02:27:06,040
catch up, and the seasteading institute needs to pay them. And the reason the nonprofit is doing it

2013
02:27:06,040 --> 02:27:11,060
is because this would be a service to all seasteaders everywhere. I also want to control

2014
02:27:11,060 --> 02:27:16,220
the designation seastead. I don't want every crazy Samuel Landy to be able to say they're a seastead.

2015
02:27:17,760 --> 02:27:23,040
And this will be an amazing service to the movement, and we'll keep the price down and

2016
02:27:23,040 --> 02:27:28,280
keep it cheap and if some other classification society wants to take on this job i would be

2017
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:32,320
delighted but we need to we need the set of rules for what seasteads are going to be

2018
02:27:32,320 --> 02:27:36,780
well good luck we need the insurance thank you

2019
02:27:36,780 --> 02:27:42,700
i better put my hat on before we can and at the very least this is all happening because of the

2020
02:27:42,700 --> 02:27:46,280
storytelling of the seasteading institute and we're gonna at the very least we're gonna keep

2021
02:27:46,280 --> 02:27:52,120
that going and so we need to raise that money as well make the seasteading institute great again

2022
02:27:52,120 --> 02:27:59,040
right joe it's another year it's over you've got to go back to the drudgery of trying to promote

2023
02:27:59,040 --> 02:28:05,720
c-steading amongst normies now which is the hard part um thanks for coming well congratulations on

2024
02:28:05,720 --> 02:28:12,560
your award as well within the free cities ecosystem you've been honored as one of the pioneers

2025
02:28:12,560 --> 02:28:17,900
i think it's what it's probably the award i'm most proud of because that's how i think of myself

2026
02:28:17,900 --> 02:28:19,560
as a storyteller who makes things happen.

2027
02:28:19,560 --> 02:28:21,080
The worst humble brag I've ever heard.

2028
02:28:21,640 --> 02:28:23,820
It's like, I just complimented you on getting an award

2029
02:28:23,820 --> 02:28:24,480
and you said, you know what?

2030
02:28:24,480 --> 02:28:25,940
It's one of the best ones I've ever got.

2031
02:28:26,600 --> 02:28:28,240
Well, yeah, I've gotten, you know, I've gotten awards.

2032
02:28:28,240 --> 02:28:29,400
I've gotten so many awards.

2033
02:28:29,540 --> 02:28:30,100
It's ridiculous.

2034
02:28:30,200 --> 02:28:31,160
But I actually quite like this one.

2035
02:28:31,200 --> 02:28:32,600
It's quite cute, you know, it's like.

2036
02:28:32,640 --> 02:28:34,720
Well, it's an award for being a storyteller.

2037
02:28:35,000 --> 02:28:35,220
Yeah.

2038
02:28:35,380 --> 02:28:35,580
Yeah.

2039
02:28:35,660 --> 02:28:36,540
I mean, I've gotten awards.

2040
02:28:36,900 --> 02:28:38,300
But this one is very special.

2041
02:28:38,420 --> 02:28:39,740
We've all got plenty of awards.

2042
02:28:40,380 --> 02:28:41,040
Anyway, right.

2043
02:28:42,160 --> 02:28:43,020
Yeah, thanks for coming in.

2044
02:28:43,060 --> 02:28:44,600
See you next year, probably.

2045
02:28:44,840 --> 02:28:45,960
Maybe somewhere in the meantime.

2046
02:28:46,140 --> 02:28:46,560
I don't know.

2047
02:28:46,560 --> 02:28:50,720
I'm actually planning a sort of Central America trip next year.

2048
02:28:50,860 --> 02:28:54,600
So you are going to bring the podcast to the next conference in?

2049
02:28:55,220 --> 02:28:56,160
Oh, fuck, yeah, of course.

2050
02:28:56,220 --> 02:28:56,960
Oh, man, great.

2051
02:28:57,260 --> 02:29:00,120
No, no, the podcast is exploding, mate.

2052
02:29:00,420 --> 02:29:02,800
Just like everything in this industry.

2053
02:29:04,140 --> 02:29:07,220
The podcast is the strongest it's ever been.

2054
02:29:07,340 --> 02:29:09,580
Like I say, I'm just bringing on a bunch of new sponsors.

2055
02:29:09,680 --> 02:29:11,720
I'm going to go full-time on the podcast properly.

2056
02:29:13,040 --> 02:29:14,540
It's the best podcast in the world.

2057
02:29:14,540 --> 02:29:20,480
I've listened to many many many of your episodes so I think so is it I don't know I think actually

2058
02:29:20,480 --> 02:29:25,000
there's a there's one podcast I listen to that is also amazing it's nothing to do with anything

2059
02:29:25,000 --> 02:29:30,640
you probably it doesn't matter which one it is but some podcasts are good yeah some some podcasts

2060
02:29:30,640 --> 02:29:37,100
are a bit drowl and boring and stuff but no in in us in our um ecosystem is the best one

2061
02:29:37,100 --> 02:29:43,420
for sure and it's the most it's the most listened to is the most subscribed to is but every no it

2062
02:29:43,420 --> 02:29:46,480
I must admit, being here this time was quite touching.

2063
02:29:46,680 --> 02:29:53,400
I had quite a number of people come up and say, listen to it every week without fail.

2064
02:29:53,560 --> 02:29:57,300
Or I queue up 10 episodes and listen to them all and stuff.

2065
02:29:57,300 --> 02:29:59,460
So it is working.

2066
02:29:59,640 --> 02:30:02,900
And it's not just the fact that we talk about these kind of things.

2067
02:30:02,900 --> 02:30:06,620
It's the fact that I think it is also the way we do it.

2068
02:30:07,100 --> 02:30:08,520
The way we talk about them.

2069
02:30:08,960 --> 02:30:09,040
Yeah.

2070
02:30:09,100 --> 02:30:12,600
Which is, that's my, that's what I want to happen, you know.

2071
02:30:12,600 --> 02:30:13,980
And it's also the production value.

2072
02:30:14,500 --> 02:30:18,600
You know, I'm on a small budget, but I come from the world of filmmaking.

2073
02:30:18,600 --> 02:30:21,080
So I want to create something nice.

2074
02:30:21,080 --> 02:30:23,020
And I know how to do it on a small budget, you know.

2075
02:30:23,380 --> 02:30:25,200
I've learned so much from your podcast.

2076
02:30:25,200 --> 02:30:27,640
You talk to all the people I'm interested in learning from.

2077
02:30:27,720 --> 02:30:29,940
I've learned so much from your podcast.

2078
02:30:30,360 --> 02:30:31,480
I've been on Rogan.

2079
02:30:32,040 --> 02:30:32,920
I love Joe Rogan.

2080
02:30:33,360 --> 02:30:35,000
I prefer your podcast.

2081
02:30:36,060 --> 02:30:38,260
We're talking about the things I'm interested in.

2082
02:30:38,440 --> 02:30:39,880
It's more of a niche market.

2083
02:30:40,260 --> 02:30:40,580
Yes.

2084
02:30:40,580 --> 02:30:44,820
And your guests are just consistently the people I want to hear from.

2085
02:30:44,960 --> 02:30:46,960
And it's really a deep going conversation.

2086
02:30:47,100 --> 02:30:48,920
And sometimes it's mind blowing.

2087
02:30:49,180 --> 02:30:56,580
Well, the going forward, my plan is to distill the guest list.

2088
02:30:57,580 --> 02:31:13,314
That I mean I been on this process of basically just getting who I can to then just getting who is in my vicinity to then now starting like nobody says no now everybody wants to come on I was over subscribed I had to turn three people away this

2089
02:31:13,314 --> 02:31:19,614
last few days everyone wants to come on the show um so so and I've learned a lot about who the good

2090
02:31:19,614 --> 02:31:26,474
speakers are it's not just about getting the good the big names or the the people with the best

2091
02:31:26,474 --> 02:31:32,274
projects it's actually about getting the people that make the best conversation as well and that's

2092
02:31:32,274 --> 02:31:38,354
a that was one i've kind of come to the conclusion that um i don't like putting out episodes that i

2093
02:31:38,354 --> 02:31:43,054
know are a little bit boring but some of them are and there's nothing i can do about that some

2094
02:31:43,054 --> 02:31:49,934
sometimes i have to speak to someone who has a project you have to speak to them and some people

2095
02:31:49,934 --> 02:31:58,474
don't really have experience of conversation the weird thing is um the number of people who

2096
02:31:58,474 --> 02:32:03,934
we have a conversation and then afterwards they say blime blimey i've never i've never had an

2097
02:32:03,934 --> 02:32:09,434
interview like that before and it's not even that i think they've never candidly spoke to a stranger

2098
02:32:09,434 --> 02:32:15,974
before you know what i mean yeah it's weird i speak candidly to every single person i meet

2099
02:32:15,974 --> 02:32:20,054
there's no on off switch for me this is when you speak to me tonight and the bub

2100
02:32:20,054 --> 02:32:24,674
I'm just talking it's just like this yeah but it's surprising how many people

2101
02:32:24,674 --> 02:32:30,034
don't and especially in the one-on-one interview type situation they click into

2102
02:32:30,034 --> 02:32:34,694
question-and-answer mode and most people don't that's all they only they only

2103
02:32:34,694 --> 02:32:38,414
know how to do question and answers I've got no questions and no answers on a

2104
02:32:38,414 --> 02:32:44,834
piece of paper you know and that is I think that's what I'm I'm proud of is

2105
02:32:44,834 --> 02:32:48,674
It's maintaining that and keeping that going in this space.

2106
02:32:48,794 --> 02:32:54,294
Because, you know, we could have had a flagship podcast that was quite crap, let's face it.

2107
02:32:54,574 --> 02:32:57,494
Like a lot of industries have a crap podcast, right?

2108
02:32:57,694 --> 02:32:58,894
But I think we've got a good one.

2109
02:32:58,994 --> 02:32:59,874
I'm proud of it.

2110
02:33:00,234 --> 02:33:01,194
It's making money.

2111
02:33:01,794 --> 02:33:03,734
I've got everyone wants to be on it.

2112
02:33:04,174 --> 02:33:05,574
The listenership's going up.

2113
02:33:06,134 --> 02:33:08,754
You know, I'm going to try and go to two episodes a week.

2114
02:33:09,114 --> 02:33:09,614
Oh, great.

2115
02:33:09,614 --> 02:33:15,214
Yeah, but I need to, I will be on it five days a week solidly if that's the case.

2116
02:33:15,694 --> 02:33:20,094
But what I was thinking was I might do a midweek online interview.

2117
02:33:20,794 --> 02:33:25,614
So it would be lower quality, but it means I can reach out to people all around the world at any time.

2118
02:33:25,634 --> 02:33:26,294
Yeah, try and see how it goes.

2119
02:33:26,434 --> 02:33:26,634
Yeah.

2120
02:33:26,634 --> 02:33:29,354
I know you're kind of against that because you like this kind of thing.

2121
02:33:29,474 --> 02:33:31,214
Yeah, but there's a reason for that.

2122
02:33:31,214 --> 02:33:39,554
And that's the realization I had on this now when I was popping into the conference and people were coming up and saying congratulations on the podcast.

2123
02:33:39,614 --> 02:33:45,374
everyone mentioned that they thought it was high quality to look at i mean you you can look around

2124
02:33:45,374 --> 02:33:50,754
here it's it's low budget but they don't know that they don't know what those cameras look like

2125
02:33:50,754 --> 02:33:56,254
you know this is this is a thousand dollars worth of equipment that's it and me and pressing all the

2126
02:33:56,254 --> 02:33:59,654
buttons as long as that little red you know how to work it well no as long as that i can see a red

2127
02:33:59,654 --> 02:34:04,634
dot there and a red dot there and a red dot there we're good and i bought it all secondhand because

2128
02:34:04,634 --> 02:34:08,774
the the you know there's a small budget at the free students foundation well actually the budget

2129
02:34:08,774 --> 02:34:11,174
is going up now because I'm getting sponsorship.

2130
02:34:11,434 --> 02:34:12,994
So I don't know.

2131
02:34:13,054 --> 02:34:16,434
I feel happy to go forwards with it

2132
02:34:16,434 --> 02:34:18,534
and really turn it into something bigger.

2133
02:34:18,754 --> 02:34:21,434
This podcast is going to grow like seasteading.

2134
02:34:21,454 --> 02:34:21,954
Oh, shit.

2135
02:34:22,174 --> 02:34:22,854
That rate.

2136
02:34:24,174 --> 02:34:24,834
Don't say that.

2137
02:34:24,894 --> 02:34:26,814
I don't want to wait 60 years before I see it.

2138
02:34:26,914 --> 02:34:29,574
No, as far as it's just getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

2139
02:34:30,454 --> 02:34:32,634
And I recommend Aldo Antonori,

2140
02:34:32,954 --> 02:34:34,934
one of the great talkers and salesmen ever,

2141
02:34:35,054 --> 02:34:36,154
who was at this conference,

2142
02:34:36,154 --> 02:34:39,514
who's the reason Seasteading is in Panama.

2143
02:34:39,534 --> 02:34:40,534
What, he was there this time?

2144
02:34:40,634 --> 02:34:41,394
He was there this time.

2145
02:34:41,494 --> 02:34:42,334
Aldo Antonori.

2146
02:34:42,434 --> 02:34:43,274
I don't even know who that is.

2147
02:34:43,294 --> 02:34:47,434
The subject is why Panama is an option for libertarians.

2148
02:34:47,474 --> 02:34:48,274
I wish I didn't know.

2149
02:34:48,934 --> 02:34:52,094
I had the list of people I could have picked anyone to interview

2150
02:34:52,094 --> 02:34:55,434
and it was hard to fit everyone in in the timescale.

2151
02:34:55,954 --> 02:34:57,794
But I didn't put him in for some reason.

2152
02:34:58,734 --> 02:35:02,994
Also, you advised me to talk to someone about democracy

2153
02:35:02,994 --> 02:35:04,054
that I wrote down.

2154
02:35:04,074 --> 02:35:04,614
Frank Karsten.

2155
02:35:04,614 --> 02:35:08,154
Yeah, I've reached out to him and he said yes, but he lives in Amsterdam.

2156
02:35:08,414 --> 02:35:11,374
So it's a case of whenever I can get to Amsterdam.

2157
02:35:12,194 --> 02:35:14,174
But like I say, no one says no.

2158
02:35:14,254 --> 02:35:14,694
It's great.

2159
02:35:14,914 --> 02:35:19,854
It's a really lovely resource to have, to phone someone up or to send them an email and say,

2160
02:35:19,934 --> 02:35:21,934
do you want to come and chat for two hours?

2161
02:35:22,314 --> 02:35:22,854
Yeah, sure.

2162
02:35:23,734 --> 02:35:24,694
Yeah, I'd love to.

2163
02:35:25,034 --> 02:35:29,254
It's like I never had that opportunity before to say that.

2164
02:35:29,254 --> 02:35:33,014
Can I come and just drill, you know, have a really stupid conversation with you?

2165
02:35:33,114 --> 02:35:34,274
And like, no, you can't.

2166
02:35:34,274 --> 02:35:35,094
I don't know who you are.

2167
02:35:35,374 --> 02:35:35,594
Yeah.

2168
02:35:36,134 --> 02:35:37,634
Aldo Antonori, Frank Carsten.

2169
02:35:37,714 --> 02:35:38,454
Those are two good ones.

2170
02:35:38,514 --> 02:35:38,674
Right.

2171
02:35:38,734 --> 02:35:39,354
I will do that.

2172
02:35:39,454 --> 02:35:39,694
Great.

2173
02:35:39,994 --> 02:35:41,194
Thanks, Joe.

2174
02:35:41,314 --> 02:35:42,734
Let's knock it on the head now.

2175
02:35:42,794 --> 02:35:43,474
That's two and a half.

2176
02:35:44,814 --> 02:35:45,854
Two and a half hours.

2177
02:35:45,994 --> 02:35:47,394
I could do another two and a half with you.

2178
02:35:47,514 --> 02:35:50,194
I know, but you can't because I've got four today.

2179
02:35:50,694 --> 02:35:51,414
Four more?

2180
02:35:51,694 --> 02:35:52,614
No, I've got four.

2181
02:35:52,614 --> 02:35:55,554
So I've got one straight.

2182
02:35:55,654 --> 02:35:56,374
Yeah, three more.

2183
02:35:56,774 --> 02:35:57,874
I'm doing four a day.

2184
02:35:58,374 --> 02:35:59,454
There was the only way.

2185
02:35:59,694 --> 02:36:00,734
I started doing four.

2186
02:36:00,854 --> 02:36:02,454
I'm doing 20 in five days.

2187
02:36:02,814 --> 02:36:03,454
Five, four.

2188
02:36:03,514 --> 02:36:03,954
Glorious.

2189
02:36:04,274 --> 02:36:14,394
glorious well it it's quite by the end of it in the evenings it's quite i'm quite you know it's

2190
02:36:14,394 --> 02:36:21,854
like a little bit hallucinating a little bit like tension and you know i've i that's my limit for

2191
02:36:21,854 --> 02:36:26,074
three i should be doing three and i last year did three but i couldn't fit everyone in this time

2192
02:36:26,074 --> 02:36:29,794
there's so many new people in the space that i wanted to talk to you know yeah last year i got

2193
02:36:29,794 --> 02:36:33,234
you at the end when you were hallucinating and i think that's why you were so easily convinced

2194
02:36:33,234 --> 02:36:40,494
probably yeah anyway great let's uh let's do this again in a year or in in actually yeah

2195
02:36:40,494 --> 02:36:45,074
in prosper mate next time let's do it in the real free city nice to see you again thank you sir