Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast
of the Free Cities Foundation.
Hello and welcome to this episode number 161 of the Free Cities podcast brought to you by the
wonderful Veritas Villages. They are building off-grid freedom-oriented communities in Latin
America but you already knew that didn't you? You're a regular listener to this show. You also
know that these communities will appeal to people who like freedom and who are looking to live
amongst like-minded people in places like Nicaragua, Panama and Costa Rica. And for the Bitcoiners,
you also know you can buy your property with Bitcoin and you can spend Bitcoin at communities.
They can even help you mine Bitcoin with the excess energy that your home will inevitably
produce. www.veritasvillages.com forward slash free cities. Now, before I break down this episode,
I want to implore you to listen to the end if you're interested, because after the conversation, I have dropped a small narrated addendum to this episode during the interview with today's guest, Sven.
Sven Lorenz, he's a returning guest.
He mentioned that he was going to write an article about what's been going on in Sark recently because so many people were coming up to him and asking him in real life.
Now, he wrote that article and he wrote it just after our conversation.
So I read it and I've compared it to our conversation.
So I've added a few things which have transpired since we spoke.
So make sure you carry on listening at the end.
And now if you're a listener to this podcast, you'll hopefully know Sven.
Sven's been on before.
He's a Sark resident who was at the centre of the recent bid to rejuvenate the island
by buying up the Flailing Sark property portfolio of the Barclay family.
I'll put a link to my last interview with Sven in the show notes.
He appeared alongside the senior of Sark.
and between the two of them they gave me an overview of the island how it operates what it is
and the problems it was facing at the time so that's a good sort of starter interview if you
don't really know what SARC is and what's been going on there this episode is an update on the
current situation in SARC since the bid to buy the property and rejuvenate the island which failed
and i also talk with sven about the wider issue of confidence in government in general
uh right here's the summary for the curious in this conversation sven reflects on sark as a
microcosm of wider structural pressures facing small jurisdictions and increasingly europe
itself he offers a sober assessment of an island grappling with stagnation demographic imbalance
and missed opportunities for renewal, including a high profile investment effort that ultimately failed to materialize.
That's the Sark bid, of course.
From Sark, the discussion broadens into questions of capital, mobility and confidence in the future.
Why people are beginning to move their money away and themselves.
How governments respond when that happens and what it means to think seriously about where and how to build a life
and a business in an era of growing constraint that's a pretty good summary actually and
i did ask my ai to to speak a little bit more highbrow that actually does sound much better
so well done ai i will try and be brief in this intro because i'm also going to record the addendum
after this but a little bit of housekeeping there won't be any value for value comments this week
sorry i mentioned that last week but then i've just realized that we're heading into the christmas
holidays so I'm having to queue up three episodes in order to be able to actually take some time off
over Christmas so unfortunately I won't have the comments to speak of what I will do instead is a
bumper episode in the new year to kick the new year off let's say and in the meantime please
consider subscribing to this podcast on fountain.fm I say this every week but it really does help this
week you've got a bonus episode that was an interview with me talking about the state of the
UK and early access to the normal show the show with Mark Edge that's six bucks a month please
subscribe on Fountain with Bitcoin preferably or Fiat I also published last week a news episode
it was a little experiment and it went down incredibly well that was a preview of the current
goings-on in the honda and general elections which i gleaned from a big conversation that we had
directly with our friends and colleagues in the country so from now on i'm going to start doing
those much more regularly not on a particular day because news in this industry comes when it comes
let's say so i'll be doing them as and when but subscribers you'll get early access to those too
you lucky things right this is all part of the expansion plans that i have for this podcast
interest is growing we're getting a lot of listeners and as we both grow as a media producer
and as the industry grows in general it makes total sense to me to expand so that's what's
going to be happening i'm going to be adding new bonus episodes new news episodes and possibly more
i'm taking on quite a lot it's it's it's true but i can just see what's happening here in this
industry we're starting to explode and i think it's important that we are there and we are at
the center of it all as we currently are but going forward too right that's enough from me
time for the conversation you know what to do other than of course fantasizing about living
car free on a small quiet island off the coast of France. Yes, that's right. Just sit back,
relax and enjoy my conversation with Sven Lorenz.
Sven, excellent. Do you know what I just did?
um i was like you know since since i last spoke to you i haven't really had any sort of sark updates
or or any not even that many thoughts about it it's kind of like because it was all building up
to such a crescendo it then fell off a cliff so what i just did was i i just did google news
sark uk i thought i better see i but it's very very funny what what came out you know i was
expecting to see drama with the barclay brothers and blah blah let me tell you the last this is the
most recent six articles written about sark and this is just classic sark number one is the most
recent sark tractor license fees could double as sark budget debate right number two winter ferry
changes are really hard for sark pupils number three sark needs to put economic development top
of agenda. That's the
most radical one.
Four, Sark dairy farmers give up.
That sounds sad. So they had
a UK farmer set up a dairy farm and they closed it now The Sark crew tackles very tricky cliff fire And the final one rare diseases sufferer
Thanks, lifesavers in Sark.
Basically, Sark doing Sark things.
No one really mentioning we need, apart from that one thing, which is Sark.
This is the Guernsey Press as well.
The others are BBC, all BBC.
You know, Sark needs to put economic development top of agenda.
But all the rest of it seemed pretty depressing.
Things closing down, things shutting.
So, like, come on, you're the man on the ground.
What's happening in Sark right now, regardless of all the other stuff?
Is it, you know, did Sark have a bit of a lull after the result of all your sort of work came through?
Or were people on the island not as invested in the idea so much as you were, obviously?
So I'm obviously biased and I'm talking up my own book, but my expectation after our deal didn't come through was always that SARC at best was going to stagnate and probably was actually going to gently slide downhill.
And I think it is a reasonable and possibly even quite objective assessment to say that this year SARC has definitely gone downhill, possibly edged towards call it crisis.
Yesterday, the budget came out.
Chief Police, the Parliament of the Ireland, has to approve the budget every year,
and that meeting is coming up.
My taxes are going up 21%.
And that's a lot, considering, because they're not much, anyway.
In percentage terms, it's a lot.
Taxes across the board are going up massively.
It's now being recognized that there is a backlog of infrastructure investments
and more financial obligations coming down the road.
I would say that even though there are no official statistics,
businesses in Saak have generally not done all that well this year.
You hear different things from different people.
But what you can say is that the quality of tourism seems to decline further.
We have the so-called T and P tourists,
which are the worst kind of tourists
because they're basically day trippers
who come to the island often from cruise ships.
They buy a tea, they use the facilities
so they're basically costing the money
because you need infrastructure for them
and they don't really leave revenue on the island.
And all of that is indicative of an island
that I think it's a bit like, you know,
the general situation in Europe
where yes, things are great in a way
and much of the rest of the world
would love to have the same problems
but it's sort of declining.
It's, you know, cynics would say
or would ask, have they given up the will to live?
And is anything ever going to improve?
And I think the headlines that you picked
from the news sources there.
I didn't even pick them.
Indicative.
That was it.
That's all I had to go on.
Yeah, I mean.
Yes, and that's before you have mentioned
the never-ending drama about the electricity company,
which has now led to Guernsey offering a loan of a million and a half,
which would not even begin to cover the investments needed,
but would in a way move SARC away from being debt-free
and not being answerable to anyone to then having a creditor
that happens to be the neighboring bigger island.
Are these developments that would make me, you know,
enthuse me to buy a house there, build a business, invest into the future. No, I'm very happy to live
there. I'm very open about I'm using the special status of Sark for my own advantage. I'm also
giving something back to the community. I do pay my taxes. But am I building a future there? Not at
all. I've said for years I'm renting because this island has huge issues. And they could only be
unblocked, in my opinion, through either a major investment or a major initiative,
everyone coming together, something big has to happen. All this small stuff that's being done,
you know, if it's even getting done at all. I mean, you know, the electricity saga has been
rumbling on for so many years that I've long stopped following it. It's not very inspiring,
and it's a great place to live. If you're older, you know, then you can say, yeah,
I'll just live out my days.
You know, it's good enough for me.
But is there a future for young people?
Is there a prosperous, confident future for Sark as an independent and truly unique entity?
There's a question mark.
It strikes me a little bit, like you say.
It's like there was an opportunity for massive change.
and because it wasn't taken even sark with its such a small government goes back and does
government things it's like we need more money so let's take more money let you know the opportunity
was there for a solution and because it wasn't taken now and this is what i see in mainland
uk you know like there's a failing government that's broke which is slowly fleecing people
instead of basically inviting people to come in,
bring their capital, bring all their productivity,
and then sort of correct the problem that way.
The way they seem to be addressing it is by saying,
no, do you know what?
Let's try and rinse a little bit more money out of the people
that we've got, or maybe try and borrow a bit more.
It seems like maybe the Sark government,
even though it's tiny, is still doing the same thing.
Pretty much.
And I mean, this is where we're getting into politics and personalities.
But I would say even more so after the recent wave of members of parliament stepping down.
So there was another article that might pop up somewhere on Google if you look for it about, I think, in the last 12 months, six members of Sarg's parliament have stepped down, which is a third of them.
And for what?
I mean, not some, you know, just because they don't believe in the place anymore or because they.
it's always a combination of reasons and i can't speak for them but i can you know point towards
what they've said in public and which was printed in the media which is along the lines of
not being heard no new ideas being considered sarg being run by a small elite that wants to keep you
know other people from having a say even though they're member of parliament i mean none of this
is unusual that's politics everywhere it's a microcosm of the uk it really isn't it i am
For a long time, I've been saying that Sark's problems and challenges and also opportunities are really not all that unique.
It's sort of like the same in every small island jurisdiction around the world.
And sadly, now I'm inclined to say its problems and where it finds itself is not too dissimilar from the rest of Europe.
Always with a caveat or with the addition that Sark is sort of at least 50 years behind the rest of Europe in many ways.
which is the saving grace.
So, you know, welfare entitlements have not grown out of proportions
because there just basically is hardly any welfare system.
And there is no major issue with debt that's been accumulated by governments.
But it's going in that direction,
and you can only live off past achievements for so long.
And the demographics of the place, I think, are quite telling.
There's the old saying that demography is destiny,
and the average age of SAAC is now above 60 again.
and I think I can say that now that I'm above 50 myself you know from a certain age you think
differently and you probably also care less about the future because it's not going to be your future
you just want to hold on to what you've got and this is the generational conflict that exists
elsewhere in the world in across Europe and there was a certain period during the pandemic when
sarks population was rejuvenated to a certain extent I had a bit of a hand in that and we've
had churn in the meantime and things going back somewhat towards you know where we used to be in
the average age is I think now I don think there an up official statistic but I would say just walking around you see the place is old It also physically falling apart And none of that is you know again coming back to what I said earlier inspiring to build a future in SAC
That said, I'm having a great time there.
My taxes, even though they're up 21%, I think most people would love to be in my place.
It's all relative, you know, we're complaining about things that are actually not that bad.
I take it your tax increase isn't a tractor license.
What caused 21% of your taxes to go up then?
Is that income tax or something?
So we have a simple system in SARC, but it has several options.
And I'll just explain one because that's the one that applies to me.
You can basically say in simplified terms, I don't want to declare income.
I don't want to declare assets.
Instead, I pay a sort of flat tax that is based on the size of the property I inhabit.
as owner or as tenant.
And that's what I do.
And the budget has come out.
SARC needs money.
SARC has been burning through its reserves for years.
There's virtually nothing left now,
which is very different to where SARC used to stand.
Interestingly enough, it used to be pre-democracy,
pre-2008 when democracy was introduced,
that SARC actually, from what I know,
had significant reserves.
And they've been spent over the years.
so now to generate more revenue taxes need to go up and 21 percent is you know for me it's not
a big deal being very honest about it but for someone who has you know who lives off a regular
employment salary i don't think their employment their salary is going up 21 percent this year
different people have different increases i heard someone say 14 percent yesterday it depends a bit
on your circumstances but yeah it's a massive increase and it's just indicative of what's
happening and you you read the budget and you know exactly it's not going to be enough
another victim of democracy then we can say quite quite uh i would i would also
possibly democratic system possibly even more so lack of planning because issues that are arising
now which are costing money have long been known could have been planned for could have been dealt
with in a more uh creative way and that's what i mean about the democratic process though because
often that is the result you get, trying to get consensus.
If someone, and I think if I understand correctly,
prior to the democratic system, it was a top-down system.
Top-down, but dominated or operated by the landowners
who have multi-generational interests
rather than wanting to get through the next year's budget
or the next election.
That was the difference in my view.
There's a lot of feudalist nostalgia on SAC when you speak to people.
I don't think I asked this at the time, but when you were trying to generate the investment to sort of replenish the place,
did you talk about the governance model changing or was it going to be considered exactly the same?
Not at all. We would have never done that because we did not want to be seen to be even considering to do the same thing as the current large portfolio owners that everyone knows of have done in the past.
We were not going to tell the place how it needs to be run.
There is an existing system which we think is attractive overall.
It has its flaws, but you can work with it.
So whatever changes on the governance level would always be up to the voters, not any large investor.
I mean, how much can you say about what actually happened?
I mean, I know, obviously, a deal wasn't struck.
But can you elaborate a bit on what the problem was or why it didn't happen?
Because it seemed obviously, from my perspective at least, it seemed like a massive opportunity.
and I think if what you're saying now about the fact that since then things aren't going great I'd
say obviously and for no one right exactly there's no winners here there's absolutely no winners
um so it's a no-brainer for me that getting the massive amount of investment would have been great
other than maybe for some 60 to 70 year old people who just want to be left alone and don't want
you know possibly I don't really know I've never even been there but can you explain kind of what
happened and what you know it's actually pretty simple and I've never been shy to summarize what
happened from my perspective so officially and on the surface we simply could not agree on a price
for the transaction and you could in a way leave it at that but then you can also speculate whether
any price would have gotten the transaction done and there may be legal or other reasons
on the side of large property owners of SARC for why they didn't or maybe couldn't accept
an offer or in fact any offer and I'm sort of I'd be you know I'd be risking getting into trouble
for you know spelling that out further because that's you know like getting into all sorts of
legal uh quandaries and slander and all sorts of stuff and i really honestly i don't care
what was important for me is that we raised the money we had a plan a proposal and
it wasn't accepted it didn't go anywhere and that's fine you know and then you just you know
you move on with life um it's just as a you know speaking as a resident it's sad to say that in a
you know the place is probably not going in a great direction right there a sense of i told you
so floating around the island at all i mean if i all i can say is that i have also been outspoken
that you know if no one and you know leave leave me aside you know leave leave us our group aside
if no one unblocks the backlog of infrastructural investment
and the lack of long-term planning on SARC,
then the place will not do well.
And it's common sense.
It's not surprising.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
If you live there, you see it on a daily basis.
So would I say I told you so?
No, because, you know, like...
It's not enabling.
It doesn't happen.
And in a way, I'm in the luxurious position also.
So unlike my colleague and friend, the senior of Sark, you know, who has a distinct long-term interest in the place by way of his family's presence and interest and title, I'm in the luxurious position to say, you know, I did my best and I delivered.
My biggest worry at the time, to be very frank, was that I didn't raise the money that would have made me look unsuccessful.
And we had the money and it didn't go anywhere.
So from my perspective, I've just moved on and I do something else in my life.
I'm not going to tie my entire existence to Sark, as many other people do.
But yeah, it's just sad to see.
So I'm going to pry a little bit because I'm interested.
When you generate an amount of capital to invest, I'm assuming, I think you've told me this,
that someone comes in, gives you a valuation, and then you generate that capital.
Is there any negotiating after that?
You said like you put your bid in, you show, okay, this is what we think it's worth, here's the money.
And if they say no, isn't there a – I mean, you mentioned that maybe they weren't even ready to receive any bids.
You don't know that from their side.
Well, I would say two things.
I mean, first of all, yes, there was.
Will I share details of conversations that were held?
No.
But you can look up what's in the media.
And in the media, it's very clear that we offered 20 million.
The buyer says we wanted 100.
and in a way that ends the conversation there and there. Did you say you heard that in the media or
did they tell you that? No, no, we were told that as well. Why didn't their lawyer say we won 100
million or something to you directly Presumably that would have been a Well again I don want to go into specific conversations that were had between you know multiple people at the table but so i mean i can say that other people who looked
at this real estate value did at 16 we offered 20 you know so we already offered goodwill and a
premium and then you know to look at 100 there's just no conversation to be had beyond that that's
the public side of things you know fair enough fair enough there's two being okay well that so
but what about your own personal opinion on the whole thing now then i think the last i spoke to
you was an email when i heard that the deal had fallen through and and i think i said to you look
you know is that it and you were like never say never well so again we're very open and i think
i'm actually going to write an article about this before the end of the year just to update people
because I'm getting regular questions, you know,
being cornered on the Sark ferry literally yesterday, you know,
and people being curious.
And in a way, I want to be very transparent.
And we have a so-called special purpose vehicle, an SPV, a company,
which is just a shell.
It's the Sark property company.
We have retained that.
All four of the directors are still directors.
It's in good stead.
It's ready.
I have investors who are you know they would be delighted to take my call when I rang up all of
our investors last time and I said we don't need your money after all literally half of them
immediately replied when you need it again just let me know and now that I know so much more about
it I'd invest a larger amount you know raising money once you've done it is so much easier to
do it a second time just as much I have moved on with my life and I'm doing other things now
So, yes, things could always be looked at a second time.
Am I pursuing anything right now?
Absolutely no, because I did invest two and a half years of my life on it,
and I'm not going to make my life's mission.
And sometimes you just also need to recognize there's not always a happy ending.
So what would it take for you to take back up the mantle of trying to kickstart this again?
Would it take, would someone need to come in from the other side, the Barclays side?
I'd say that's a question I could only really answer together with my three other directors.
So I'm not going to answer that one right now.
But the SPV is there.
We have access to capital.
Sark is staffed for capital.
You see that.
Wouldn't take much to, you know, get things going.
Just as much am I doing anything on that front right now?
Absolutely no way.
I'm very busy with very positive things that are happening in my life.
So it's not even remotely on my to-do list.
Well, I mean, that's a definitive answer. It's incredible, really, when you think about it. But when you look at the parties involved, there's three major parties. There's kind of you guys, there's the Barclays, the property owners, and then there's the people of Sark.
And you can see the incentive for you guys and for the people of Sark to move forward.
But the incentive for the other side is less obvious, especially if they're prepared to quote an extremely high fee.
And the obvious question which anyone will ask is to what extent are they potentially harm strung by financial and legal issues that exist on their side?
you can only speculate about that but you know that's the first question any lawyer would ask
in this situation is this about money or are there other blockages that will prevent anything from
happening and this is another reason why i'm you know not spending much time thinking about this
because that's you know completely beyond my my judgment my insight or you know my power to do
anything about do you have you did you say earlier that you'd noticed that the the tourism industry
quailed a little bit since then as well? Is that a factor of anything or is that just
nothing to do with the fact that there was a lot of press around the time when the bid was happening?
No, no. I'd say it's fair to say that SARC tourism has been in a secular decline probably for decades
which started with the Channel Islands, Guernsey, Jersey, SARC, Alderney were places where probably in
the 60s and 70s you traveled for a bit of sunshine but then cheap flights came into existence and
people from the UK prefer to travel to Spain where you've got guaranteed sunshine and everything else
is a lot cheaper and that trend has probably become more pronounced with the the so-called
cost of living crisis in the UK where prices are up dramatically taking a family from the UK to
Guernsey is really expensive nowadays I know yeah I looked in we I looked into it I've got there's
five of us yep I looked into it and yeah it's not cheap to get that very short distance by plane
And then you add to it the question whether the tourism facilities and what's on offer has improved in the last couple of decades.
And I mean, given Sark's dilapidated status, I think the question answers itself.
Sark lives of its natural beauty and its heritage and its history.
And there are some great facilities on the island, but overall it's not become exactly more competitive.
Then Sark also occasionally gets a bit lucky.
So this past year there has been a significant influx of French tourists.
So somehow the French have now discovered that you can, you know, with effort.
Do they come straight from Prague?
No, and this is one of the major issues and that's been talked about forever.
And that would be the most obvious thing to do to boost tourism.
But because that was something that the Barclay family wanted back in the days,
it's always been turned down on the back of that.
That's a Barclay idea, which is why this thing has not been anywhere.
Did they want it for tourism reasons?
Yep, they owned hotels and they wanted tourists to come from Normandie and Brittany,
where you've got 20 million people visiting every year.
So you need like half a percent of that to come to Sark and you're good.
I mean, it's a no-brainer. It's very close to France.
How long would a ferry ride be?
An hour or something like that.
It's a complete no-brainer. It's been talked about for 15 years.
Every year it's like, oh, it's really going to happen now.
You know, like we've got a good new team and nothing ever happens.
But you were planning on upgrading the port as well.
Would that have had an impact there as well?
That could have certainly facilitated all sorts of other things.
And instead people are coming to a port that has issues,
starting with comfort and convenience and ending with health and safety.
So French tourists are going to the UK and then flying to Guernsey?
No, they come to Guernsey and Jersey first and then do a…
Can you get directly from France to Guernsey?
Yeah, you can.
During summer of the year when the weather is nice.
And what was the reason that that's just that is that just something on Instagram, probably that just kicked off?
Something just kicked off. So, I mean, we had a couple of years when there were lots of cruise ships stopping over in Guernsey, and they then sent groups over to SAC, the famous T&P tourists. Now it's the French people coming. But overall, the numbers look okay, but the spend per visitor is not doing well, from what I hear anecdotally from a variety of business owners.
presumably because they can't stay for too long either they can't stay for too long there is a
cost of living crisis restaurant owners tell me you know people come in and order a meal but no
drinks or just want tap water that sort of stuff it's true it's the same where i live in out in the
rural england the part you know people don't go out as much as they used to especially you know
when you consider that even a simple meal in the uk now is relatively expensive if you take your
whole family out it's not like it was yeah i think i hate to sound negative but it there's a lot of
it's a bit of a shit show at the moment isn't it everywhere it is and you could change things so
easily and so quickly so for example in september i brought a group of 48 friends colleagues and
readers to sarg for a weekend where we you know indulged quite lavishly in you know culinary
delights and and other activities and business owners told me that one group coming in september
which is off season made a significant difference for them it's like literally you know one person
organizing one group already makes a difference in these businesses for it would be i don't know
i'd say it'd be a perfect place to do retreats wouldn't it you know like business retreats
whatever it would just be it's got
I mean, obviously, some people from our organization did such a thing.
And you had a great time.
Yeah.
So I hear.
Yeah, absolutely.
It could all be done.
And in a way, it's almost heartbreaking and a bit of a shocker, you know, why is so little happening?
And as you said, you know, one of the headlines you read on Google News is about the ferry timetable being thinned out so much that even the residents complain.
You know, then, you know, never mind tourists.
Well, maybe to end on a, let's end this section on a positive note, maybe it'll come to a head. I mean, could you predict that it would come to a head? I mean, there must be even a point where everyone's losing out.
this is generally how political change happens things have to get really bad before eventually
they turn around is sark in a spot yet where it's really bad i i don't think it is um but that's just
my subjective perception and other people may well disagree in any case i sort of i keep an open mind
as to the entire thing. As I always keep saying, I'm just renting. I'm enjoying my time there. I've
had some great years on Sark. My career has certainly advanced thanks to the exposure that
I had through the whole attempt to invest in Sark. So I'm, you know, positively satisfied with my Sark
experience and not making my future dependent on it. But I'm also in a, you know, very comfortable
position. And I can easily say that for other people, it's quite different.
right well let's talk about your other things that you're doing then let's turn this around
it's all not it's not all dark doom and gloom um you're um you'll speak we're at the free cities
conference obviously in prague welcome by the way and um and you're you're going to be talking
and loosely speaking and i like this term vote with your money we've got vote with your feet
We've got vote with your boat.
Basically, we've got vote with everything except a little tick on a thing, which I think I could definitely get behind.
But that's the title of what you're going to be talking about.
And the subtitle is Investment Opportunities in the Era of Capital Flight.
That's a very 21st century thing, isn't it?
I mean, especially, I don't know how much you know about capital flight from the UK.
But if what I read in the very normal press is anything, you know, is true, it appears there's a lot of capital flight from the UK.
And I think probably a lot of it's spurred by potential government changes in taxation.
I mean, you obviously know a lot about this.
Why is there so much?
Why are there so many millionaires leaving the UK?
And why is there so much money leaving our shores?
So I think there's a whole number of subjects that we can speak about here.
But let's start with the most obvious one, which is what's in the media every day.
People leaving the UK and people with money or professional skills or the ability to build companies they're leaving.
I think what's driving it is not so much the absolute percentage tax rate or specific issues that they're upset about.
I think what I see among my contemporaries is it's the fact that there's just no improvement in sight at all.
When politics are bad and frustrating, you think, OK, in two years there's going to be another election and, you know, we just need to sit this one out and then it'll be fine again.
And this time people are saying, no, there's just no way out.
I mean, first of all, the Labour government will be in power for, I think, another three years now, unless anything dramatic happens.
And even then, I mean, we've had how many years of the Tories?
And they've basically pursued policies that made Tory, like conventional or traditional Tory voters, absolutely despise them like never before.
And in terms of voting with your feet or voting with your money or your boat, there's this meme going around, which is basically that you can't vote your way out of this situation.
because we are in some way, as cynics would say,
in a uniparty system where it doesn't matter who you vote for,
different politicians, same crap, basically.
No matter who you vote for,
they can't make the permanent bureaucracy,
aka deep state, go away.
They can't make the accumulated debt
and the entitlements go away.
You might be able to inflate your way out of it,
but that's not exactly what you want either.
And it's a hopeless situation.
And I see, interestingly enough, a lot of people in the UK, also very much so in Germany,
people who would not previously have done more than to just moan about it.
I see them packing up, selling up and voting with their feet and taking their money with them.
And that's a new development.
And it's certainly, I think, building up.
And it's going to be a continuous feature in the landscape.
And that leads you to the next question.
At what point are government going to say no more?
You know, we're bleeding out here.
We need capital controls again.
And that's something I've been speaking about for years now.
And it seems like we're getting closer to that point.
So capital controls would be exit taxes and wealth taxes.
Are they capital controls?
So I think it's worth taking a step back and looking back in history.
Capital controls used to be something fairly common until the 1980s, probably.
It was not uncommon for countries, including Western countries, to basically tell its citizens you can only take a certain amount of money outside of the country every year and you need to invest it at home, etc., etc.
We have forgotten how recent capital controls were a fairly common feature of the financial landscape.
And I started talking about this subject in 2022 when I was at a conference for family offices in Vienna.
and I pointed out in a presentation to them
that the various supranational institutions
had put new regulation in place
to make capital controls easier in the future
based around ideas such as capital controls
are possible in circumstances related to national security
which of course is always, you know, that's anything.
and I found it very interesting that they introduced specific wording
to allow capital controls as a preventative measure.
So in between national security and a preventative measure,
you can just do whatever you like.
And once you give politicians power, they're going to use it to their advantage.
And back in the days, if you spoke about capital controls,
you were still somewhat like a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist.
now what we're seeing I think is a the rise of several different ways how to directly or
indirectly introduce capital controls one is for example exit taxes and they're always done in a
very pernicious way where yes of course you're allowed to leave you know but you know it's just
you just can't keep your company you have to sell your company and Germany is the know-how leader in
this aspect they invented exit taxes in the 1920s and then the 1930s used one particular
religious or ethnic group to really perfect the whole system of exit taxes and they've been a
world leader in it ever since other countries are introducing it there are now issues or you know
regulations like for example i think finland has just banned large numbers of foreigners from buying
real estate in the country, which in a way is a sort of reverse capital control.
You can't come in.
And we're seeing more and more of that.
And if the flow of capital to safe havens or perceived safe havens increases further,
then you could see measures such as you can only take a certain amount outside of the country every year which is for example something South Africans have been used to ever like forever It going to come back It interesting You said that the meme now is
you know, this is happening, which is new. I agree. And it's not just people that are into
finance and people are into this kind of stuff. It's normal people talking about it now. So
So it's probably nearer to a bit of a flash, you know, kind of like a flashpoint than we think.
Because already people are feeling the pain in daily life.
And according to this, it's going to get worse.
Because capital control, do you include a wealth tax as a form of capital control?
Yeah, absolutely.
Right.
and I know from experience that when certain people start talking about wealth taxes it means
it's coming it's just you know like it gets leaked out slowly but surely and it's one of the most
egregious taxes I think are wealth taxes it's one of the most miserly taxes it's literally the one
that they say right we've taxed you all the way up to the top and now we want the rest and it's
the worst the same with the exit tax it's like rather than being competitive to try and keep you
here i'm just going to stop you leaving you know it's like when they put a wall up to stop you
going you know which side of the wall you're supposed to be on you know it's like the same
thing happened in east germany we know that you know um but but i think i think when normal people
in the pub start talking about, you know, these kind of things. And then it's quite serious.
And like you say, I have a slightly different opinion. I think most, I see the uni party idea
is real. And, but I see a lot of people on the ground talking about potentially a third party
idea. And from my perspective, I don't see any difference there. I think it doesn't matter what
they say, they're still going to, even if they get into power, which it could, I would
say at the moment currently, probably more likely than anything, they're still going
to hit the same blob, the same mass of bureaucracy, the same hole in the same deficit, the same
everything.
And there's not a lot you can do when you're a government because you don't make money.
You either borrow it off you or me or institutions, or you take it from you or me or institutions.
and they haven't got any other options.
So what is the answer apart from, you know,
when I heard in the mainstream news that so many million millionaires,
so many, was it 16,000 millionaires had left or whatever,
I think they were probably the smart money thinking about it.
There's probably smarter money that was even before them.
but but i would imagine that that means that in the not too distant future um it's too late
you're either paying when you leave or or you're not and that's pretty pretty bad for for your
average i think middle class people you know i was thinking about it the other day i i'm sorry
to rant on a bit but it's all it's all welling up in me now but i was thinking about our house that
we own that's basically taken best part of 30 or 35 years to own this lovely big pile of stone
nobody else owns it apparently we do and now I'm thinking okay it's a it's potentially becoming a
liability um so maybe then we'll save it we'll sell it and move to a better place and when I
went through every stage of this process i was basically being hammered selling it taxed i mean
keeping it taxed selling it taxed taking the money abroad to look for a better life taxed you know and
it's like they're so miserly so it's so wrong and broken and and you know so what do you do i mean
obviously you you would advise me to probably get the hell out would you i'm telling everyone
And however hard and expensive it may be to leave,
it's not going to get any cheaper and it's not going to get any easier.
And to give you an example, I mean, or two examples,
I moved to the Channel Islands in 2017 because I saw bad things coming our way.
And I was too early, but I moved to Sark at a time when 20% of the real estate was empty.
So I could literally freely pick the house that I wanted to leave in.
try moving to the Channel Islands now, you know, find anything and it'll be twice as expensive
and you may not even get anything closely resembling of what you want.
And then again, capital controls and also just tightly sort of like connected to the subject of leaving.
So three years ago, you could have gone to the Channel Islands and opened a bank account with a leading private bank
with an opening deposit of 250,000.
that's been up to 2 million now.
And it's a hard limit
because the compliance regulations
that banks are now under for non-resident clients
have become so onerous that banks say,
sorry, if you don't bring 2 million,
we just literally can't deal with you, sorry.
So it's just getting harder and harder to get in.
And I think that will only become more of a problem
as more people move abroad.
That said, there are always options.
and much as, for example, the Channel Islands have a very limited housing stock
and are sort of like full, you have places like Dubai
where you can just, you know, you just extend in the desert and you build.
So yes, there's always an option somewhere.
But generally speaking, it won't get easier to extricate yourself
from your own country and it will not get easier to get in elsewhere.
That's before we've spoken about second passport programs
and things like that, all of which become more and more regulated,
more expensive.
so I'm a broken record I've been saying this for 25 years to people just leave
but presumably there is a geo arbitrage there is competition worldwide for people
so it's you're talking about Europe the UK really Europe in the UK right
yes absolutely I'm talking about Europe and the UK because I'm of a certain age where
You know, most of my contemporaries want to stay somewhere close to Europe or in Europe because of family and parents and things like that.
Younger people may be more flexible.
And the great news is that we live in the golden age of the digital nomad visa, the golden visa, and countries competing for the productive.
And you also have more options than ever before.
You need the money to pay for it, but you certainly have more options than ever before.
And there's now this wonderful thing called the Internet where you can look up all this information.
in the 1990s when I wanted to read up about alternative you know tax residencies and
passports and all that sort of stuff you had to buy underground books you know like books from
underground publishers and they were really expensive and you know it was much more tedious
so in a way it's a great time to be alive and you just have to pick what's best for you and in a way
the free cities conference where we're at these days is where I think the philosophy or the motto
is very much don't try to change the system where you are because by god have we tried and it's not
it's not moving just build something new elsewhere and that in a way includes build yourself a new
life elsewhere where you are welcomed and liked and treated well and uh ironic well not ironically
as a matter of fact there are more projects in the free city space than ever before and
and there is a real sense of momentum right now.
And I'm probably one of the closest people to many of the projects.
And I can definitely attest to the fact that I can feel it already,
especially even in the last few months.
And that why I mentioned the meme that you can vote with your feet has blossomed very quickly when you think about it I mean I think in this day and age with the internet I think everything does
I don't think, I think a good idea when it sort of gets released out into the wild these
days will basically flourish on account of the internet.
And that is one of the ones that I can't believe how many people I know, real, what I would
normal people talking about options like this um which is unfathomable especially in the UK because
I don't know I love the UK I love where I live I love British culture I feel a fully immersed
Brit I love it um but I'm still I'm I'm like I I think I'm like you except I actually do own a
property in the UK. But I don't feel sentimental about it anymore. It's weird. It's been a couple
of years that so many cogs have been turning in my mind that I suddenly realize I'm no longer
sentimental about wanting to spend my old age in the UK. And it's really sad in one sense,
but it's also exciting because I'm in this world, this world we're in now, which is super exciting.
There's a lot of people doing a lot of things, but I'm one of those people that does have friends and family in Europe and I do want to stay, but I'm quite prepared to go now, you know, and really that's a major hurdle.
That would have been a major hurdle for me.
Yes, the number of people who are talking about this, considering it and potentially close to doing it has probably gone up by a hundredfold.
It's not a specific figure, but it's gone up by so many multiples that I can't even begin to imagine how many people that's now.
Everyone's speaking about it.
Where do you advise then?
Without too specific, do you just advise get out?
Or where do you say, where are the best places to sort of migrate your capital to?
Well, on the one hand, it depends on your individual circumstances.
But the advice I always give is, you know, choose that one place that really appeals to you, even if it's not perfect.
Just get out and learn and experience how it is to live in a different place.
And then you improve and you optimize by moving on from there, if you have to.
Just make that first step.
I'm speaking to a lot of people who are in this forever loop of talking about what's the perfect place where I'm going.
And there is no perfect place.
And if you think about that for too long, then you will never move.
And maybe some people just like speaking about it.
But if you're serious about it, just move somewhere, rent something, try it out, and then move on if you don't like it.
I think the reason a lot of people keep speaking about it is because they're deeply optimistic that things are going to change.
That's my feeling.
I really feel like I know, for example, there's been a few phases of people I know leaving the UK.
The phase we're at now is we'll see what happens in three years.
We'll see if reform or whoever it is do actually shake stuff up, which I don't think they will,
because I thought Trump was going to shake things up.
And, you know, he's kind of everything's bigger and more expensive and more money, more borrowing, everything, you know.
So I don't imagine.
Have you got any anecdotal evidence of the kind of phases people go through when they actually decide to go?
You're saying like, get out and then sort of look back in hindsight.
That's kind of what you're saying, isn't it?
It's like, just try it, because if you don't try it, you'll never know what you're missing out on or whatever.
do people tend to sort of like dip their toes and then and then realize it's the right thing or
do you get a lot of people coming back do you get a lot of people just jumping feet first or
so my experience my best experience and most useful insights about this i think are from
living in sark and having helped a lot of people move to sark in one capacity or another and two
things happen very often one is that they are utterly shocked how easy it was and how nice life
was subsequently once they were on the other side of the wall.
And the other thing is that in any jurisdiction,
and even more so in a tiny island jurisdiction,
you have, inevitably you have churn.
People move somewhere and they realize
it's not quite what I need or what I want.
But then they're on the other side of the wall already,
and then they don't move back to where they came from,
but instead they move to somewhere else
that might suit them better.
and that's a recurring theme i see and in a way that i hope hope inspires people to you know
take that jump and then just you know work your way forward from there what about actual investment
wise then what what are the what are the options that mostly people sort of what routes to most
people go down in those terms well i think everyone always constantly speaks about real
estate, which I find utterly boring, I have to admit, because the real estate you live in is not
an investment. I would say the most exciting investment to speak about is your business.
Wealth is mostly created from setting up and growing businesses. And I would say in this day
and age of the internet and global options, to call it, for lack of a better word,
it's extraordinarily exciting to look at jurisdictions and potential places to live
from the perspective of would I want to run a business from there would it be advantageous for
my career as an entrepreneur as a business builder to be based there and I think that's really the
number one aspect to look at the weather transport links the school system food culture time zones
All of that is very, very important and everything always comes as a package and nothing is ever perfect.
But ask yourself, where do you want to build a business?
Because that's where you're probably going to make the most money.
What do you think of the situation in America as an option for relocating capital, yourself, your family?
I think America is one of the most underappreciated options.
So I have myself been, you know, occasionally taking a curious look at that.
and the reason for that is twofold first of all it's the world's biggest market
so if you want to build a business and you want to have a domestic audience that you can sell to
there's just nothing else unless you want to move to china you know and i don't speak chinese so
that's not my option and the other one is that america offers many options because it's 50 or
however many states and then these sort of jurisdictions that are part of it like puerto
Rico and Guam and whatnot else. And in between the different state systems for tax and different
loopholes, I think tax is not too bad. And it is by far outweighed by the economy and the market
being so big that, as I always say, you know, I don't mind paying high taxes if my income is 10
times higher than elsewhere. I'm still coming out ahead. It's just a lifestyle decision primarily.
Some people love America, some people hate it.
And it's not easy to get in, but there are so many interesting routes,
some of which are underappreciated.
It's all rapidly changing.
I don't want to speak about individual visas because I'm not up to date on a day-to-day basis.
But until fairly recently, the highly talented visa was a great route to get in.
And I know 25-year-old kids who got in as highly talented,
even though they were like medium talented maybe.
Same with schools.
Yeah, so yeah, the United States is a potentially great option and it just goes to show there are
Different things work for different people. I'll tell you the most unusual option that you will never have heard about
Go on. Well, you want to bet that I haven't heard about absolute shocker for you
Right I like a good guessing game Give me a clue So no you won be able to guess Okay It the UK for me in my specific circumstances because what everyone has completely missed
noticing, because it doesn't apply to most people, when the Labour government canned
the non-DOM status, which was the ability for non-Brits to basically be based in the
UK and only pay taxes on their local income and keep everything else outside of the country
tax-free.
When they canned that, they introduced a new set of rules that as a non-Brit, you can move to the UK and effectively live there as a non-dom for four years, provided you haven't lived there in the last 10 years.
So because I've been away for 10 years, I could now move to the UK and spend four years there and only pay taxes on my local income and keep everything else outside of the country tax-free.
Wow. So you mean as in SARC is not the UK?
Correct.
Yeah. So I could move to London.
And pay no tax.
Well, I would pay a bit on what I need, you know, to live and stuff.
But I would probably, my global tax rate would be in the single digits.
You're right.
Limited to four years. Not ideal if you have family, you want to relocate everyone and, you know.
Four years is four years in this day and age.
That's one of the symptoms of this day and age, I think, is people don't think in 25 year, you know, batches.
yeah yeah and i'm saying that as an you know to illustrate there are so many surprising options
that you only find if you do a lot of research about this the world's your oyster
yeah well i agree that the world's your oyster but i also have to you know acknowledge that
my roots my family's roots are well and truly in the ground where we are and um i think
I think I it's almost like I fall into the category of someone who would just have to take
take the kick up the ass from the government there's not much I can do if they decide to start
wealth taxing my property I'm in you know I mean I don't know how it works necessarily if it's
anything like the US system then I'm in trouble because I've we've we've amassed like for like I
say for 35 years we've been climbing the ladder of property so can i just add one thought here
maybe also to just stress that it's not all about taxes really it's about you know you get into
trouble if you tweet certain things if you've got certain opinions they might want to inject you
certain substances they might want to lock you into your house for a year or two you add up all
of these different factors it's not just about you know saving taxes it's just not a great place
to live anymore in many ways, sadly.
I agree with you.
I do 100% agree.
It's just that,
and I think this is where countries
have you really, you know, trapped,
is that the longer you stay somewhere,
the deeper your roots go.
This is why countries, I think,
like the Emirates, especially Dubai,
somewhere like that,
is still highly competitive
because there's only been a few generations
of people that have ever even lived there.
and as a result their friends and family are probably still somewhere else you know 90% of
is is is incomers and they'll be outgoers at the drop of a hat if things turn around
and places like the UK they know that intrinsically they they can viscerally feel that
that they can do all kinds of stuff before you get up and go and and unfortunately they they
appear to be doing that and um I'm I'm one of the people who's kind of I don't know put it this way
It's discussed at the kitchen table for the first time in the last few years, the option of moving.
I think currently in its form, it's like, well, let's wait for the kids to reach a certain age and then do it.
But, you know, if push comes to shove, it won't be that.
I can assure you.
I just know.
What would be your line in the sand to leave Sark, to leave Europe?
um my circumstances are probably a bit different in the sense that sort of every
seven or ten years i tend to go for a significant life change and i i'm generally concerned that if
you live in small island communities and i'm not in one for the first time i lived in the
galapagos islands for quite some years as well um you become a bit too closely associated with
that island and maybe a bit too focused on that you know island life and then it's good to throw
yourself into a different situation again to make sure you remain competitive and you you know your
life's not all about this one place that you live in i i've yeah god i i don't know i mean i'm having
that debate with myself i mean i have no one to speak to at the kitchen table so you know i just
make my own decisions but i'm talking to myself i i look at options and for me it's very much
business and career driven and I've had some unbelievable opportunities offered to me because
of the work that I did in Sark. None of them has come through to a point where I have signed
anything but they're coming my way and you know will I be there forever? At the very least for me
it's been obvious thing to maybe move to Guernsey you know where the infrastructure is better, better
restaurants, less issues with, you know, transport and infrastructure and so on and so forth.
I don't know. I'm looking at options, but right now I'm not going anywhere.
I'll be honest, we've had Guernsey and Jersey up on right move a couple of times in the last few
years. I mean, what I didn't realize is you have a two-tier or they have a two-tier
housing market there, right? One for incomers and one for people from the area.
absolutely yeah and the price differences are quite dramatic yeah it's like and twice as much
if you're an income yeah and again there are so many loopholes and special regulations that you
only are aware of once you really spend a bit of time researching that so for example for me
once i've been in sark for eight years i gain the right to live in the cheap part of the guernsey
housing market ah because you're a local at that point it's sort of it's a special thing for sark
But are there many rentals?
I can't imagine there would be many rentals in that market.
Yeah, there's everything.
I mean, Guernsey has 62,000 people.
And I mean, I'm probably just used to there's just nothing on Sark.
No, but I mean, like if you look at where I live, rentals were decimated by, for example, Airbnb, because I live in a tourist area.
some people realized that renting someone their house for like a thousand a month or renting it
out five days five days a month for a thousand is a better option and and as a result there were
very few properties to to live in long term you can find rentals in guernsey and i i there i would
have less hesitation to buy something because guernsey is not at in an existential risk like
sark for example you know you buying a house in guernsey doesn't mean you end up with a stranded
asset which in sark you may well end up doing but if the government whatever the uk government does
what what's what are the implications on guernsey and jersey and sark for example sark nothing in the
first instance nothing because these islands all govern themselves they're independent from the uk
in the second instance yes there's a dialogue and guernsey and jersey can't do any wild things so
if Guernsey tomorrow started to offer a business visa specifically for sanctioned Russian oligarchs,
you know, they would get a call from London and, you know, would be told off for doing that,
even though theoretically it's in their right.
But I mean, none of that would ever happen.
In Guernsey, and I speak about Guernsey because that's next door to me and I've spent a lot of time there.
I know very little about Jersey, but that's just my ignorance.
In Guernsey, things look pretty good for the long term.
I mean, there's either no debt or just a little bit of debt. The GDP as a percentage of the overall, sorry, the tax, the taxation as a percentage of GDP is still only 24%, which in other parts of Europe is double that.
crime and it's still a very happy place.
So as a microcosm, it's not falling foul of the same problems
that larger states are falling for?
Not at all, no.
And what would the reason be?
Just more wealthier people there?
I think it's culture.
I'm not an expert for Guernsey.
I hesitate somewhat to, you know, like portray the island in a certain way.
but Guernsey is as I always say like how the UK used to be in the 1980s there was a certain culture
things are being done in a certain way that's respected they're being done in the right way
there is community people speak to each other things are coordinated in a reasonable fashion
and is it improving no it's not exactly getting much better there either but it's it's a bit like
Switzerland you know like it's such a happy place that whatever you complain about if you live in
switzerland 99 of the rest of the world would love to take your place switzerland also though
relatively wealthy place one of the and we'll wrap it up money money helps i have a jewish
friend who always says his mom told him whether you're poor or you're rich it's great to have money
but i mean the truth the truth of the matter is whenever we discuss on this podcast
options, geo-arbitrage options, basically, you really end up coming down to two sort of
categories. One is you go to where the rich people are. The other is you go to where the system hasn't
quite, you know, managed to get as ingrained somewhere like Paraguay or here. And they're the
two options, unfortunately. And, you know, so that you see a lot of wealthy places around the world,
which are doing absolutely fine.
They're like isolated from what you see
in these great large states,
which are essentially failing.
There's not, you know.
And it's a sad thing, really.
I mean, when I think it through,
it's really sad to think that that's the system we're in.
And that you and I, I think, both come to the conclusion
that you can't actually fix it.
You can't fix it.
The only fix is a collapse fix, which is a terrible fix.
It's the worst kind.
But you can't unravel this.
This is a bunch of string and so knotted, you cannot unravel it.
You have to throw it away.
Or in the case of what we do here, yeah, you have to build something new somewhere,
which is inevitably in one of those countries that hasn quite amassed all this bureaucracy and red tape and you know But yeah I mean I don know Let not end on a let not end on a tell me something positive
Come on.
Well, what you just said, I would, I would second every word of that.
On a positive note, I mean, to repeat what I said earlier, you have more options than ever before.
And I mean, I'm old enough to remember, for example, in the 90s, when you want to fly somewhere,
you had to go to a travel agency.
They looked up the secret knowledge in their computer about the flight times.
Then you had to make a bank transfer to them.
Three days later, you picked up your paper ticket, which you needed at the airport.
We live in a golden age of you've got your smartphone in your pocket.
Countries are vying for the productive, the young, and anyone who's got at least a few dollars in their pockets.
And it's sad to give up on the country that you grew up in, that gave you opportunities.
that you feel deeply rooted in.
But unfortunately,
there is not always a happy ending
for everything in life.
And sometimes you just need to recognize reality
for what it is and move on
and deal with it in the best possible way.
And I think this is why, you know,
another reason why I'm at the Free Cities Conference
this time again,
because I want to see what's happening
in this industry because,
and I'm not getting paid to say this,
but I think your industry,
you know the team that you're working with you are about to take off in a way that I don't think
people many people would think possibly yet and I think you're on the cusp of something absolutely
dramatic and amazing and probably in a few years time we'll be you know at this conference in a
different venue because so many more people will want to attend and we'll think back to you know
the days when we met in Prague and there were a couple hundred people and you know we did these
podcasts and stuff like that so i think great stuff is going to happen in new industries with
a free cities movement geo arbitrage plan b all this stuff and all i can say is you know come to
this event listen to the podcasts support the group by buying the books and the various other
outputs that people affiliate with it have created i'm i'm only loosely part of it because you know
the plan that I had didn't work out so I'm just basically a user of the whole alternative system
and I love it you are a user but you are part of it Sven it's um because there is you know it's um
it's a it's an ecosystem which is basically about living about living with people and about you know
it's not some walled place that no one can come in it's not a gated you know it's a it's a it's a
is an industry that needs all kinds of people basically and I do agree with you that the you know things like the fact that there are these new memes that appear in daily life about moving to other countries and moving to better places
Those are the signals that we are in this time.
And I know, and as you probably know, there's a lot of things about to pop, so to speak, in this industry.
And we're all here for it.
I mean, you know, so yeah, many thanks for popping in.
I won't be able to be there for your talk, unfortunately,
but I think I probably got the gist of it just then.
Delighted to have this conversation.
Looking forward to seeing you again in the future.
And hope this was of use to your readers, followers.
It will be, it will be.
And I'm still, I'm still, I still think Sark will happen
because it has to happen.
like if sark sark's like um you know either sark happens the way that some in some shape or form
the way you envisaged it or it just dies so so what it can't and it won't die no one's going to
let sark die it's a beautiful place and it's got a history it's got people that are living there
but it it it needs that there's no other what's the alternative like some form of communism
that's not going to solve the problem so so i'm still i'm still there with it i think it i think
one day just like you say one day we'll be sitting talking about the good old days when we all met up
in prague we'll we may be on sark talking about it and and i because i think sark has to happen
because i think when you have a resource when you have a resource like that somebody somewhere
is going to make it happen because people look for things like that like you did people look
look for for for things to transform like that and i think it will it's just difficult at the moment
but um but good luck anyway and and thanks for popping in it's good to see you again i'll i'll
we'll see where our paths cross next thanks tim
right here's the addendum i mentioned at the beginning of this episode basically during the
show as you heard Sven mentioned that he was about to write an article and in a couple of places he
went into more detail than what we discussed in the show I will leave a link to the full article
in the show notes so go and check that out what we did cover from the article I'll mention those
things now because it'll just give you a good recap on what's going over there he talked about
taxes rising sharply and reserves running out He talked about the Guernsey loan discussion offering one and a half million the big infrastructure backlog and the electricity saga as a major sort of risk factor
on SARC. And then the demographics slash tourism decline. These were all quite a substantial part
of the article but we already addressed those things what was new and i'll go into these now
very briefly the tax overhaul that he mentioned is moving from talk to process the article reports
that parliament explicitly confirmed in the november 2025 budget debate that there will be
in quotes a big public consultation next year about a fairer way to raise tax revenue the secondly
the guernsey loan that he mentioned has conditions that do raise autonomy questions
his article says that sark pledged future alcohol tax revenue as collateral for the 1.5 million loan
and obviously then raises the question of whether this could be a step towards debt servitude.
One to look out for.
Thirdly, the infrastructure numbers are put on the record.
The article actually cites an internal document putting needs of around £20 million
versus an annual government budget of £2.5 million.
pounds and sven's estimate of 20 to 50 million is the total backlog in his article right finally
electricity crisis he quotes the details much deeper and in his article he claims residents
face a one pound 13 per kilowatt hour electricity cost which is incredible and actually sven says
it's the world's highest electricity cost which was later reduced by government edict the company
is claiming damages and the government is attempting nationalization and a taxpayer funded
community-owned structure total costs for that could be double digit millions with what Sven
calls a in inverted commas non-zero risk of bankrupting SARC right there you go that's all
the latest stuff over and above what we already talked about in the interview many thanks for
listening to this addendum and I will see you in the next one