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Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast

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of the Free Cities Foundation.

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Hello and welcome to this episode number 150 of the Free Cities podcast. What a lovely round number

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brought to you as always by our wonderful sponsors of the show Veritas Villages.

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Veritas Villages are freedom-oriented, energy-self-sufficient, luxury communities

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in Latin America designed for people who want to enjoy peace of mind and real freedom in these

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uncertain times. You can live amongst like-minded neighbours in communities that use Bitcoin,

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and you can buy your property with Bitcoin as well. www.veritasvillages.com forward slash free

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cities. It's in the show notes, as I'm sure you know. And to remind you once more, Patrick,

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the founder of Veritas Villages, will be speaking at the Free Cities Conference in Prague

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in just a few weeks freecitiesconference.com you cannot miss that one i'm getting actually

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genuinely excited now can't wait to be there loads of great speakers all listed on the website now

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and more coming it's just the place to be if you're in the free cities movement be there or

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be square as they say right today's show and it's a returning guest knut svanholm you may know him

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quite well. I certainly do. And I'm going to go straight to my AI for the summary. Tim interviews

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Knutts von Holm, who shares a distinctive perspective on Bitcoin, its culture and security.

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They discuss Bitcoin's alignment with natural law, property rights and peaceful trade,

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as well as its potential to promote honest money, deflation and increased purchasing power.

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The conversation touches on personal responsibility, critiques of democracy and historical examples of limited government societies.

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Svonholm presents Bitcoin as a tool for individual freedom and economic empowerment.

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That's it, he sure does.

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And my two sats that I will add, he also defines the most red pill of red pills.

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As the title suggests, yes, we challenge the unchallengeable idea that democracy is the pinnacle of human governance technology.

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See you soon in the gulags, guys.

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We're saying the unsayable.

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Talking of gulags, I'm observing what's happening in the world and the powers that be

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really have started ramping up the privacy invasion slash digital ID thing in the last

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couple of weeks. I don't know whether you've noticed it yourselves. It all seems to be

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happening in lockstep. Alarm bells are ringing. Remember, it's never what they say it's about.

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It's hard not to see this as preparation for something big in the future. My bet

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would be on monetary reset at some point, probably in the 2030s.

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That's a bit of a wild prediction, I know.

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Anyway, wrapping your head around decentralized networks

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is never more important than it is now.

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And I'm going to say this again.

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Don't forget, start using decentralized privacy tools now.

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Start making them part of your day-to-day life.

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Start using decentralized money now.

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start using it on a daily basis start living in a parallel world whenever you can

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start now so that it becomes second nature that would be my advice

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right rant over subscribers on fountain my beautiful subscribers many thanks to you all

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i'm going to give you all a little mention here nicholas cousin vinnie shadrach silas thornbrook

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set in stone a n t c b there's an n pub there i think it's christopher albanese i don't know

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why it's not showing up bullish mike matthias tim guess what guys i published a new bonus

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episode a couple of days ago if you haven't seen it already you have access to that now

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It's another massive conversation, this time with a Bitcoin slash Erbit developer by the name of Jake Hamilton.

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It's basically me talking with a gigabrain for nearly four hours about literally everything from technology to religion to psychedelics to basically the future of mankind.

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and if you add that to the four hours of bonus episodes i recorded with gg

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in your brain can thank me later anyway please subscribe for these private episodes and more on

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fountain.fm you get the bonus episodes you get early access to some other episodes you also get

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a guaranteed readout of your comments like this one from subscriber.

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Bob John.

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Bob says, I love, and he's talking here about the episode with VIT,

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the president of Liberland.

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That was last week's episode.

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I love the spirit of Liberland and what they've accomplished.

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Thanks for asking tough questions about the shit coin.

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He's talking about that's BTC maximalist speak for their own coin that they have, which isn't Bitcoin.

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I think they would be able to bring in higher quality peeps if they dropped their own coin.

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It's a personal barrier for me.

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That may well be true, Bob.

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It's hard to say.

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I certainly agree that Bitcoin maximalists, Bitcoiners would take Lieberland slightly more seriously if they didn't issue their own coin.

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however that's the route they have decided to go down or vit he's he talks about it in the podcast

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actually he's quite resolute about his ideas about economics and also the fact that they have quite

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a large treasury in bitcoin as well listen to the episode if you'd like to draw your own conclusion

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to that debate right let's get into this grab your copy of the bitcoin white paper make a small prayer

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to the gods of Bitcoin maximalism. It's time to speak to Knut. Once you're in your calm state,

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you know what to do. Sit back, relax and enjoy my conversation with Knut Svonholm.

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now what were we just talking about before we went on air and i said oh let's talk about that

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on the pod um yeah well first of all thank you for having me on again tim like the last time around

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we did the longest pod ever done in my life like more than four hours it was it was epic yeah i did

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get your full backstory though and stuff which we obviously don't need to go to now no no everyone

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knows that now yes everyone knows it after after the two million views the the previous one did

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yes of course i saw actually i have seen other people talk to you about

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seafaring and all that kind of stuff i hadn't spotted that one before but now it seems to be

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one of your go-to uh topics well it's not voluntarily though other people want me to

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talk about well it's almost like in the bitcoin world it's like bitcoin and yeah isn't it bitcoin

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and seafaring great right let's do it what what can we what what conclusions can we draw from

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bitcoin and see no but the thing about that my background like um my whole um public bitcoiner

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career if you can call it that you can definitely call it it's it started here uh baltic hannah

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Badger in 2019. And back then I thought like, I do not come from computing or like systems

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engineering or and I do not know anything about economics really like I haven't studied that.

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So I thought my seafaring background would be to my detriment. But the opposite was true,

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because I had a perspective that no one else had because I had a different background.

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So I think that's one of the things that Bitcoin does.

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It makes people...

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You can be appreciated for your unique perspective.

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I believe that over the course of a lifetime,

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your path becomes more and more unique because no one else has it And the older you are the more unique your path is And there value in that And you can sort of look back on dreary boring episodes

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of your life and realize that there's actually something of value to be extracted from that.

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It's not like I believe in some greater purpose or anything like that. It's just like, maybe

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wasn't all waste maybe maybe you wouldn't have been where you are now if all those things hadn't

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happened leading up to something always and there's there's power in that and like finding

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stuff from your past that you thought was useless but it can actually be valuable i do remember a

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time in the bitcoin world when there weren't any celebrities other than people like possibly adam

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back and a few people like that now andreas antonopoulos yes andreas definitely andreas

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ironically andreas isn't as well known really anymore but i think most people i know from back

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in the day or say the the 2017 people yeah were were basically turned on by and and and and

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antonopoulos probably when he went on rogan the first time i think yeah and uh he was like the

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only one doing this like traveling to conferences and stuff and in 2019 here he had just released

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his mastering ethereum book and like uh and 2019 everyone was uh very much in slay your heroes mode

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we were proud that we slayed our heroes uh and whenever someone stepped out of line and started

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shitcoining or anything they were immediately called out uh and rightfully so like that's one

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aspect of the community that i really loved is like that no one's safe here it doesn't matter

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your credentials if you if you bullshit you're out so like we're not going to respect you anymore

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uh and what what happened there was um so so we were slaying all our heroes except andreas it's

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like he had plot armor yeah so so so i started poking people on the shoulder and they're like

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why is no one saying anything about Andreas?

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He obviously took a bag of shit coins

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and is now shilling this Ethereum bullshit.

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But no one dared to call him out on it.

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And then eventually people did.

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And I think Andreas sort of,

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I guess he was bored with his,

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well, fed up with his path.

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And he sort of went into the shadows and started,

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I mean, he blocked me.

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What is he doing now though?

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I think he's doing the same thing as he always was, just on a smaller scale.

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And he doesn't get the whole maximalism Austrian economics angle, really.

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Really?

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He spoke like an Austrian economist when he used to talk about Bitcoin.

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A lot of it, yeah.

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I mean, you could argue he's one, well, not anymore, but he was the most valuable brand in Bitcoin at one point.

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Absolutely.

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And like if Andreas, if you're seeing this and if you want to unblock me, please feel free to do so.

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Because on the whole, like I try to judge people on their, like everyone's a human being, right?

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And we have goods and bads.

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And if Andreas is still definitely tilted more towards the good side than the bad side for me.

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So I think.

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I'd say, I would say he's a hero of mine.

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He basically completely changed my life.

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I would not, I mean, I already knew about Bitcoin prior to that, but he, I'd heard about it.

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It didn't mean anything to me.

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I watched him on the internet and the penny dropped with me, literally looking at that

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guy's face.

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And I would imagine that happened to a hell of a lot of people because he had a very good

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way of, he was very eloquent about it.

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Very good public speaker.

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Excellent.

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But when you think how long ago it was as well, it's taken, like nowadays we get very

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used to being able to talk quite authoritatively about the bitcoin but he was he he got it deeply

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all the way back yeah ahead of the curve which is why it was so uh disappointing when he started

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shitcoining like still like ethereum to me um is an obvious scam 70 pre-mine uh it reached its peak

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in 2017 and then there was a slight run-up in 2021 when they changed their narrative from world

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computer to ultrasound money or whatever the fuck and it never got to 50 percent of the peak in 2017

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in fiat terms it did it did but if you're measuring in fiat you're using the wrong

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denominator and you you don't detect that you're being ripped off if you denominate in bitcoin it

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never went to 50 of its initial hype so the rug pull had already happened like there was never a

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flippening it was a scam through and through and i don't think andreas is willing to admit that but

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i mean i shouldn't speak for him i like i said he's still definitely a net benefit and he had

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some of the best clips about bitcoin out there are from him so i've all the respect for that

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but i'm still going to call out the bad stuff and chilling ethereum is crap any idea why

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um um like as a as a was he i don't know whether he was particularly technologically

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minded or not but he was so do you do you think well he must have he had a background in computer

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science so maybe he did think the theorem was revolutionary or a natural progression or

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something i don't know yeah but but still i mean the information is false regardless of your

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intention with it sort of like is it malice or just uh bad thinking i don't know but the message

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is wrong and it's like that's what social media is for like someone's wrong on the internet i'm

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going to point it out but then again if he wrote a book about how to program on ethereum in a way

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it's neutral i mean it's like i know you know i i don't think there's any chance that he didn't get

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paid to do that of course it is okay yeah but and i'm almost certainly he needed to get paid as well

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i mean if you think back as well i've heard many people say that he did spend i mean he obviously

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had a fair bit of bitcoin because it was hard not to back then but i think he spent it all because

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it wasn't really valuable. Absolutely, because he financed his own. And then there was a

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hashtag thank you Andreas thing where he

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collected like 13 bitcoins or something. Really? With people just donating

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to him because they liked him. Recently? No, it's

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like five years back. I was going to say, 13 bitcoins. Probably even more.

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Yeah. Well, it wasn't as much back then, of course.

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I mean, the thing Andreas did for me on a personal level

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is just, I looked at this guy

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and he's flying around the world

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teaching people about Bitcoin

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and seems to have this fantastic life

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where you can just go wherever you want

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and make money off of telling people the truth.

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And I looked at it as like,

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maybe I could do that.

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That was very much an inspiration.

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I probably wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now

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if it wasn't for that.

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Do you know what?

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I've got a feeling.

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I wear this Bitcoin pin whenever I go and I've worn it for a long time.

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I've got a feeling he gave me that idea because he said in a small way, it's nice to, it's

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probably not so good these days, but back then it's nice to signal to people that you're

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a Bitcoiner because if you run into someone on a plane, like I still get it to this day.

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If they spot the sign, they're like, hey, things are different now.

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I like the subtler ones.

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I suggest the everything divided thing is better to every Bitcoiner knows it.

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And it's not signaling to bad guys that you're a Bitcoin.

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And talking of bad guys, you know Elena.

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Oh, yeah.

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She's not a bad guy.

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No, she's not a bad guy.

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But did you see her talk this year?

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No, I missed that one.

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But I'm catching it in Helsinki next weekend.

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Do you know what it's about?

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Yeah, about the security stuff.

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Yeah.

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And that was a real eye-opener.

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She showed for the first sort of like 15 minutes of the talk behind her, she had flashing news articles constantly for ages, probably about over 300 of them, of people that have been kidnapped and had their Bitcoin stolen in some shape or form from all around the world.

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Yeah, I have a slightly controversial view on all of that.

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Everyone's a FUD salesman.

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the guy who sold you this water bottle sold you the fud of not being able to quench your thirst

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if you didn't buy his bottle of water so and in bitcoin like there's levels of fud salesmanery

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i guess uh but in bitcoin is very common like you need this steel plate you need this hardware

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wallet you need this security course or whatever Like everyone selling this And of course it a good thing We should take care of how to secure our bitcoins

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We should do all the measures.

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We should know what to do when there's a kidnapper in your house.

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Panic buttons.

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All of this stuff is good stuff.

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00:19:02,420 --> 00:19:03,060
Hardware wallets.

217
00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:06,480
You should definitely take control of your own keys.

218
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:12,140
You should probably do multi-sig and have your keys in different countries and all of this stuff.

219
00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:13,020
It's all good.

220
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,200
But still, and here's the but.

221
00:19:17,420 --> 00:19:19,900
But everyone's trying to sell you FUD.

222
00:19:20,140 --> 00:19:25,020
And I refuse to let fear dictate my actions.

223
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:32,180
If I walked around being afraid all the time, then I wouldn't do anything.

224
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,080
You just can't live like that.

225
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:42,140
And we need people to be courageous and stand up for what they believe and to show other people it's not dangerous to talk about this stuff.

226
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,240
Like there's that side of the coin too.

227
00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:54,580
And I mean, at the end of the day, it's easier to steal other things than Bitcoin if the Bitcoins are stored properly.

228
00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:57,200
Because I do this shtick all the time.

229
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But if I point a gun at your head and say, Timmy, Timmy, give me all your Bitcoins.

230
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,680
You can give me any amount of Bitcoin, and I have no way of knowing if that was all you had or not.

231
00:20:10,820 --> 00:20:15,100
You may have given me 0.1% of your Bitcoin.

232
00:20:15,220 --> 00:20:16,260
I have no clue.

233
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,020
And that's true for every single human being on Earth right now.

234
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:23,300
There is no way of actually knowing how many Bitcoins they have.

235
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,540
Theoretically, everyone on Earth could control every single one of the keys,

236
00:20:28,540 --> 00:20:32,000
and everyone could have all of the 21 million Bitcoin, right?

237
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if you take this to the extreme.

238
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So in the future,

239
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when an attacker

240
00:20:37,660 --> 00:20:40,400
wants to steal something

241
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,380
from you, regardless of

242
00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:44,560
it's an attacker in the public or the private

243
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:44,920
sector,

244
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,460
they want to take your house, they want to take your money,

245
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,480
they want to kidnap your kids

246
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,340
and put them in school, whatever

247
00:20:52,340 --> 00:20:52,840
it is,

248
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,300
it's going to be harder because

249
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they can do all the

250
00:20:58,380 --> 00:20:59,880
other stuff, but taking your Bitcoin

251
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,040
is not worth the attack.

252
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,120
It shifts the profitability calculation

253
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:08,840
that the attacker has to do

254
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:10,900
because it's way harder to take the Bitcoin

255
00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:12,020
than to take anything else.

256
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,800
So it's more profitable for the attacker

257
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,380
to instead of attacking you,

258
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,340
providing something of value back

259
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and trading with you.

260
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:27,960
And this is like the very basis of what this is.

261
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:34,180
the way I see it, and this is straight out of Misesian logic,

262
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,100
humans have two ways of resolving conflict.

263
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,120
One is communication and the other is violence.

264
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:47,060
I can either talk to you and resolve the conflict because conflict only arises

265
00:21:47,060 --> 00:21:51,380
when there's a scarce good or a scarce service.

266
00:21:51,380 --> 00:21:59,140
so the the hoppian argument and like the i think this is derived from the rothbardian argument is

267
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that even in heaven uh where a theoretical heaven where you have an abundance of all goods

268
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i uh two bodies cannot take up the same spot at the same time so if i want to stand over there

269
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:18,680
in heaven right next to saint pete or something quantum physics say the opposite to that

270
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:24,340
two things can be in the different places yeah but only very very small things

271
00:22:24,340 --> 00:22:31,700
anyway not a human body so there's a potential conflict there but we only have conflict over

272
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:39,940
scarce resources and therefore all communication is really at the very deepest philosophical level

273
00:22:39,940 --> 00:22:47,460
aimed at resolving conflict which and from that uh first principles thought you can derive that

274
00:22:47,460 --> 00:22:51,300
well, science can't derive an ought from an is,

275
00:22:51,740 --> 00:22:54,700
but I would say that we can derive an ought not.

276
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,320
And that ought not is don't steal.

277
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Don't violate other people's property.

278
00:22:58,960 --> 00:22:59,800
And what is property?

279
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,760
Like the first obvious property is your own body.

280
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,960
If I say that human beings control their own bodies,

281
00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:08,640
therefore they own their own bodies,

282
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,480
you can argue against that.

283
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,840
But in doing so, you prove my point.

284
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,840
Because you have to control your body to be able to argue.

285
00:23:17,460 --> 00:23:19,960
So where does the body end?

286
00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:22,040
Well, that's where homesteading comes in.

287
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:32,040
If I take something in nature, from first principles, I am the rightful owner of that thing.

288
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:42,360
If all communication is aimed at resolving conflict, you have to talk to me and convince me that that stick that you picked up is not mine, but it's yours.

289
00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:49,040
so if we if we want peaceful interactions you can you are not allowed to take the stick

290
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:56,300
like this is natural law law that is discovered rather than invented by human beings so this is

291
00:23:56,300 --> 00:24:04,920
the difference between lawful and legal and i think if more and more people viewed their like

292
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:10,880
morals and their ethics from a lawful perspective and instead of following whatever law someone came

293
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,000
up with just followed natural law, respected property rights and said, this is rightfully

294
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,520
mine, this is rightfully yours, and called out bad actors for what they actually are,

295
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,360
everything would be better.

296
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:27,560
And Bitcoin sort of allows this because of this, the profitability of violence model.

297
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,500
In the long run, Bitcoin is peace.

298
00:24:31,660 --> 00:24:37,160
It leads to fewer and fewer violent, less and less aggression.

299
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:39,140
This is the non-aggression principle.

300
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,340
Bitcoin is the manifestation of the non-aggression principle in real life.

301
00:24:44,060 --> 00:24:47,380
So yeah, we're in a period where there's a lot of confusion,

302
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,980
and a lot of people think that they can kidnap someone and cut their middle finger off

303
00:24:52,980 --> 00:24:55,040
and take all their Bitcoins.

304
00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:57,840
But it's not a very profitable thing to do.

305
00:24:58,580 --> 00:25:03,940
It's very risky, and you have no idea of knowing if you actually got the Bitcoin or not.

306
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,980
And in fact, Lena talked about an incident where someone was robbed of $6,000 worth.

307
00:25:09,140 --> 00:25:10,580
And I think they were killed.

308
00:25:11,060 --> 00:25:17,400
So I think that underestimates the vigor with which some people will try and steal from others.

309
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:17,840
No, no.

310
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,340
I'm not denying that there are bad people out there.

311
00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:23,720
But if they kill you, no one gets the Bitcoin.

312
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,680
What happens then is that the remaining sats become even more scarce.

313
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:41,360
Therefore, every other Bitcoiner in the world now has more purchasing power, more political influence, more power in general.

314
00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:45,820
So they can only make the system stronger by attacking us.

315
00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:48,720
This is the perfect defense mechanism.

316
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,680
You just mentioned John Locke's ideas about property then, didn't you?

317
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:54,280
Lockean law.

318
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,340
Yeah, I think John Locke was onto this as well.

319
00:25:58,340 --> 00:25:59,640
No, but you just said something.

320
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:00,600
I think I've written down.

321
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:00,940
No, Hopper.

322
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:02,580
I said Hans Hermann Hopper.

323
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,920
I thought you, but you said the same thing.

324
00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:12,000
If you have, because when I think of homesteading, I think of John Locke and I think of the 160 acres that you're allowed.

325
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:22,740
If you add, that's kind of how it formed into a law in the States that you were allowed to claim 160 acres if you added your labor to the land and you blah, blah, blah, all this kind of stuff.

326
00:26:22,740 --> 00:26:32,800
Do you think Lockean law, do you think that law, the idea that if you grab something natural, add your value to it or add your work to it, it becomes property?

327
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,080
Do you think that's a natural law?

328
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:35,920
Yes, I do.

329
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,660
So it's a real natural occurring law.

330
00:26:39,780 --> 00:26:49,440
It's important here to remember that in a perfect world, everyone would have respected that from the beginning and we would have no wars and everything would be better for everyone forever.

331
00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:51,800
But we're not living in that world.

332
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:58,360
We're living in a world where every single product is the product of both violent and nonviolent interactions.

333
00:26:58,980 --> 00:27:06,380
So this water bottle, for instance, the free market and division of labor and price signals more than anything,

334
00:27:06,860 --> 00:27:19,760
made it possible for people to print this piece of plastic to turn oil from the ground into a well-functioning bottle that doesn't weigh too much so it can be easily transported.

335
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:25,460
have you seen the lid though it doesn't yeah so there's also violent interactions one of them is

336
00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:31,100
this fucking bullshit where the eu prevents us from removing the cork they don't prevent you mate

337
00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:38,020
no no you can rip it off but but but the thing is they did force everyone involved to to change

338
00:27:38,020 --> 00:27:43,040
their fucking factory to make this thing this way instead that one's got a bit of added technology

339
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:48,080
look it's got two layers on it look there's a bit the bit around the bottom it's kind of like

340
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:56,700
No, but the point here that I'm trying to make is that at the end of the day, that is an added cost to the manufacturer.

341
00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:59,240
And it's so retarded I can't put it on again.

342
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:12,740
And who pays for that Everyone does Yes every day Everyone And there VAT added to it That is a violent interaction That is not consensual We forced to pay it

343
00:28:12,740 --> 00:28:13,740
So like...

344
00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:16,840
Well, you're not forced to buy it, I suppose, are you?

345
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,460
No, you're not forced to buy it.

346
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,960
And that's the thing.

347
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:23,820
The free market is such a strong force for good in the world

348
00:28:23,820 --> 00:28:26,220
so that despite all the government bullshit

349
00:28:26,220 --> 00:28:29,380
and despite the EU being completely retarded,

350
00:28:29,380 --> 00:28:37,140
it still provides us with uh more and more of an abundance of stuff do you think they'll ever

351
00:28:37,140 --> 00:28:42,200
backtrack on that thing just out of interest because it's so universally disliked isn't it

352
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,800
have you ever met anyone who thinks it's a good idea no but i don't mingle with eu bureaucrats like

353
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,280
yeah but do you think they'll listen to the public and go do you know what i mean i don't

354
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,200
i don't ever recall seeing lids all over the floor either beforehand did you we didn't have

355
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:07,240
a lid infestation did we no no it's so retarded but that meme is uh is absolutely true like america

356
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:15,460
innovates china replicates the eu regulates yes yeah and so lockheon law is naturally occurring

357
00:29:15,460 --> 00:29:23,140
so that idea that property is derived from your the addition of your work to it is it would

358
00:29:23,140 --> 00:29:30,560
would arise everywhere any if if we if you arrive on an island with nobody else on it and then i

359
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:38,100
wouldn't i'm too unfamiliar with john locke um for this like i i derived this from mises rothbard

360
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:43,400
and hopper like to me locke's biggest contribution to mankind is the separation church and state

361
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,160
like that's where he was really influential but like

362
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,920
I'm trying to separate the last religion

363
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,360
democracy

364
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,120
from people

365
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,440
separate the state from everything

366
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,520
so

367
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,380
yeah

368
00:30:02,380 --> 00:30:04,360
so where was I

369
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,780
we're living in a world where everything is a mixture

370
00:30:06,780 --> 00:30:08,740
and all the land

371
00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:11,040
in the world is already claimed by someone

372
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,780
and it has been for

373
00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:14,380
generations and it's been

374
00:30:14,380 --> 00:30:16,600
traded like someone

375
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,360
bought a house or bought a piece of land. Manhattan was sold for what was this like

376
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:27,920
$10,000 300 years ago or something. But it has also been taken by force. So we live in

377
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:33,680
a mixture, everything's a mixture of violent and nonviolent interactions. So the only way

378
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:41,320
to decide now who owns what is if we want to go forward into the future peacefully.

379
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:50,360
And by we, I mean anyone who's willing to do this kind of thought experiment and actually live out what they believe to be true.

380
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,740
Then if I say this water bottle is mine, I have to argue for why it is.

381
00:30:56,860 --> 00:30:59,360
And I'll say because you gave it to me, it's mine.

382
00:31:00,220 --> 00:31:04,580
You could probably convince me to give it back.

383
00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:09,240
It would probably be harder to convince me to give it back if I bought it myself.

384
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,680
But there we are.

385
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,140
If we want to peacefully resolve the conflict, we need to communicate.

386
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,040
We need language.

387
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:16,480
It's the only way.

388
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,480
And that's how I view this whole thing.

389
00:31:22,180 --> 00:31:23,480
You can have the ball, by the way.

390
00:31:24,580 --> 00:31:26,940
Bitcoin is nothing but communication.

391
00:31:26,940 --> 00:31:29,760
It's an agreement on a fixed set of rules.

392
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:37,820
And the reason we agree on this specific set of rules is that it's more expensive to break the rules than to just follow them,

393
00:31:37,820 --> 00:31:49,220
which allows us to have a monetary system with a fixed supply that we all store in our heads.

394
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:59,020
I believe all the Bitcoins are within the Bitcoiner because the Bitcoins are not the UTXO on the blockchain.

395
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,240
It's the private key or access to the private key.

396
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,440
It's the ability to move them that is actually giving you the superpower.

397
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:10,120
and that is always in someone's head it's always a secret kept from someone else

398
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:19,600
which means that we now have um a way to check ourselves check our privilege when it comes to

399
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:27,320
communication we we we can do absolute free market economy we just have to agree on this

400
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:32,760
set of rules and the more people that do the the better it becomes uh and number goes up that is

401
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:38,220
which is really just purchasing power go up and you can see how fooled you've been by the fiat

402
00:32:38,220 --> 00:32:44,560
system. Gold did not have a fixed supply. Gold had a stock to flow ratio that was in line with

403
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:50,780
the progress of everything else. That's why prices were stable in gold. But stable prices is an

404
00:32:50,780 --> 00:32:57,420
illusion. I love to ask the simplest questions. So the simplest question I know is like,

405
00:32:57,420 --> 00:33:00,180
to describe all this is

406
00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:02,960
when human beings practice doing something,

407
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,900
do they usually get better or worse

408
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:06,940
at the thing they're practicing doing?

409
00:33:08,060 --> 00:33:11,680
So if I practice playing Beethoven's Fifth or something,

410
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,400
do I get better or worse at it?

411
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:14,240
I hope you get better.

412
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:14,720
Yeah.

413
00:33:14,860 --> 00:33:17,120
Most people get better when they practice doing something.

414
00:33:17,540 --> 00:33:18,740
The follow-up question is,

415
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,720
so why aren't all prices dropping forever?

416
00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:25,840
Because that's what they would do

417
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,000
if we had honest money.

418
00:33:27,420 --> 00:33:31,880
And if you're using Bitcoin as your denominator, you can see the world through that lens.

419
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,540
And you see how absolutely awesome that is.

420
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,200
Everything is getting cheaper forever.

421
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:37,620
It's fantastic.

422
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:43,900
And once you get above a certain hurdle or a threshold, you don't need to work another day in your life if you don't wish to.

423
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:48,880
I think a lot of people who aren't Bitcoiners would listen to what you said and would say,

424
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:57,120
that's all very well, but prices won't come down forever because you're going through a monetization phase and blah, blah, blah, and all that kind of stuff.

425
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,380
Okay, but then they should do this hypothetical thought experiment.

426
00:34:00,940 --> 00:34:02,860
So let's say there is no more fiat.

427
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,000
Everything is running on Bitcoin.

428
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,480
Therefore, it stops going up.

429
00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:11,760
Well, the pie can still grow larger.

430
00:34:12,180 --> 00:34:14,180
There can still be more products, cheaper products.

431
00:34:14,180 --> 00:34:20,800
People will still practice doing stuff, including designing water bottles with caps that you can screw off.

432
00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:24,180
And it will get cheaper and better over time.

433
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,700
There's no reason that it would ever stop.

434
00:34:26,700 --> 00:34:32,420
Maybe it will flatten out, but the flattening out is way off in the future.

435
00:34:32,660 --> 00:34:35,900
The flattening out is after everything is on Bitcoin.

436
00:34:36,340 --> 00:34:40,780
And we don't know how much it will flatten out.

437
00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:47,240
I suspect that it will not flatten out at all because you add AI and robotics and all of this,

438
00:34:47,340 --> 00:34:52,420
we get so much better at an increasing pace at doing absolutely everything.

439
00:34:52,420 --> 00:34:59,860
like just remember coordinating uh where you're gonna meet somewhere else someone else before

440
00:34:59,860 --> 00:35:08,140
mobile phones and like how did you navigate before google maps like nowadays i can i can get an uber

441
00:35:08,140 --> 00:35:14,060
within two minutes in every single big city in the world it's it's amazing like why aren't people

442
00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:21,760
appreciating these things like it's it's so good uh and if you denominate that in bitcoin it's even

443
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,760
more magic because everything is dropping in price forever something i thought about the following

444
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:33,700
the ai trend into the future is that it will do away with money altogether won't it because

445
00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:40,620
the marginal cost of things will will all trend to zero and there'll be a point where the production

446
00:35:40,620 --> 00:35:47,160
of new things won't cost anything anything and the production of anything new because there'll be

447
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,340
But the flaw there is that it will never actually reach zero.

448
00:35:52,140 --> 00:35:54,060
And if it did, no one would produce anything.

449
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,560
But, I mean, AI would be doing it.

450
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,080
But why?

451
00:35:59,420 --> 00:36:00,920
AI is...

452
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,660
So here's the thing.

453
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,240
Why I don't believe in general intelligence AI.

454
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,560
Humans do things because we feel uneasy.

455
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,780
So we're somewhat uneasy.

456
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:14,120
This is the praxeology.

457
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,440
This is the basics of praxeology.

458
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:22,700
So we envision a future in which we've used some means to reach a certain end.

459
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:34,840
For instance, right now, I'm foreseeing a future where I've used language to explain this concept to, well, not you, but our listeners, because you already know this stuff.

460
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,060
So I feel slightly uneasy that I haven't gotten to the end of the sentence yet.

461
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,740
So therefore, I keep on talking to reach that end.

462
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,600
An AI would never feel that uneasiness and could never make a decision on its own.

463
00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:54,080
It's always a slave to someone.

464
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,700
It will never, it will never skynet.

465
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,640
Well, yeah, but what about, but this is a thought experiment then.

466
00:37:02,060 --> 00:37:04,560
I'm thinking, what is that uneasiness, right?

467
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:12,060
In a human being, if you track back uneasiness as far as you can, it might be the fear of death.

468
00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:13,700
No, it's a selfish gene.

469
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:16,040
at the end of the day it's just your genes

470
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:16,980
trying to survive

471
00:37:16,980 --> 00:37:18,800
to survive? yeah

472
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,840
but AIs want to survive as well

473
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,180
I think there's been examples of them wanting to survive already

474
00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:25,000
yeah yeah yeah

475
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:25,440
but

476
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,940
every organ

477
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,060
wants to survive.

478
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:33,680
That's like

479
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,920
the most basic property

480
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,760
of anything living is that

481
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,020
they want to reproduce and survive.

482
00:37:39,460 --> 00:37:42,000
That's the basics

483
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:42,640
of evolution.

484
00:37:43,420 --> 00:37:45,840
The things that have that property

485
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,760
are the things that will survive.

486
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,520
But the AI

487
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,100
where was I going

488
00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:54,580
with this?

489
00:37:55,340 --> 00:37:58,100
The thing

490
00:37:58,100 --> 00:37:59,800
that separates human beings

491
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,240
from other creatures and other plants or animals or whatever,

492
00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:10,340
is that we do things deliberately out of free will.

493
00:38:10,740 --> 00:38:13,140
And we can get into the whole free will rabbit hole.

494
00:38:13,260 --> 00:38:14,880
I love the Hitchens quote about it.

495
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:16,280
Of course, I have free will.

496
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:17,660
I have no choice but to have it.

497
00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:23,400
And I think, objectively speaking, you cannot have free will

498
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:28,840
because the neuron firing off will have to precede any decision.

499
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,560
so what made the neuron fire off

500
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,120
it was not your consciousness

501
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:34,660
because that comes with a lag

502
00:38:34,660 --> 00:38:37,500
so objectively we possibly can't have it

503
00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:39,780
but the thing is that doesn't matter to praxeology

504
00:38:39,780 --> 00:38:40,980
because subjectively

505
00:38:40,980 --> 00:38:42,360
we have to have free will

506
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,320
we cannot argue that we don't

507
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,520
without running into a logical contradiction

508
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,460
if I say to you that

509
00:38:49,460 --> 00:38:52,380
you don't have any free will

510
00:38:52,380 --> 00:38:54,580
I do so by my own volition

511
00:38:54,580 --> 00:38:56,200
so I have free will

512
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,040
I cannot do that without

513
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,440
showing you the opposite.

514
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:04,720
Everything's futile if we don't

515
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:06,520
argue from a perspective of we have

516
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,480
free will, then everything is

517
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:08,820
pointless.

518
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,480
We can't do anything about arguing

519
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,240
about it anyway because we would just

520
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:16,540
automatically... The paradox

521
00:39:16,540 --> 00:39:17,660
is unsolvable.

522
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,620
Just don't go there. It's just going to drive you mad.

523
00:39:23,620 --> 00:39:24,580
I believe

524
00:39:24,580 --> 00:39:26,400
to a certain extent... And there are

525
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:27,500
theories that

526
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:30,380
in quantum physics,

527
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,060
particles can be entangled.

528
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,420
Right? And some people

529
00:39:34,420 --> 00:39:36,400
misinterpret this because it's not like

530
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,340
this thing is influencing that.

531
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,460
It's more like if I

532
00:39:40,460 --> 00:39:44,700
write on a piece of paper.

533
00:39:45,620 --> 00:39:46,760
Is that your phone?

534
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:47,080
No.

535
00:39:48,700 --> 00:39:50,840
My God, I just switched it off.

536
00:39:52,340 --> 00:39:52,900
Sorry.

537
00:39:52,900 --> 00:40:02,620
sorry about that i did i did switch it off right in the middle of a hey it's off

538
00:40:02,620 --> 00:40:09,120
that's yeah that's weird my phone just rang and it was on there was no internet connection

539
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,500
joe rogan would have done exactly the same tim don't worry about it yeah yeah sorry

540
00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:21,180
so entangled yeah so it's more like uh the the particles are entangled in the sense that if i

541
00:40:21,180 --> 00:40:29,400
write the word spadoinkle on a piece of paper and I rip the paper apart and I have the sp part,

542
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:34,820
I put that in one envelope and I put the doinkle part in another envelope and I send,

543
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,600
randomly send one of the letters to Australia. Whenever someone opens that letter in Australia,

544
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,160
I immediately know what the other letter says without even opening it. So that's how

545
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:50,000
particles are entangled. It's more like if you have the information about this, you also

546
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,980
automatically have the information about that.

547
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,140
And particles have been shown,

548
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,720
I'm no expert in this by any stretch of the imagination,

549
00:41:01,020 --> 00:41:04,220
but to be able to be entangled across time,

550
00:41:04,380 --> 00:41:05,500
so backwards in time.

551
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,160
That could theoretically explain free will.

552
00:41:09,620 --> 00:41:13,100
If the neuron can fire off and you can make the decision

553
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:14,740
and that can influence the decision,

554
00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:16,780
Terminator style,

555
00:41:17,020 --> 00:41:19,460
a couple of microseconds backwards in time,

556
00:41:19,460 --> 00:41:22,780
then maybe there's a way to have objective free will.

557
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:28,060
But if time is what it seems like it is,

558
00:41:28,100 --> 00:41:30,000
and it goes in one direction only,

559
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,540
then we cannot have free will.

560
00:41:31,540 --> 00:41:38,360
One way I've always thought of it is that time exists

561
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:44,560
and your path through time is you have free will over.

562
00:41:44,940 --> 00:41:48,060
But when you change between paths,

563
00:41:48,060 --> 00:41:54,800
as in say say imagine this is your life and you're you've got all these options of things these are

564
00:41:54,800 --> 00:42:00,000
intentions that you take and when you move one lane into this intention you inherit the history

565
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:07,080
of that or you know yeah that ties into the multiverse thing which is by the way the only

566
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:14,040
theory that actually works when it comes to quantum mechanics the particle really does take

567
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:21,440
all the paths between a and b and and when you measure it you reveal what timeline or what

568
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:27,220
part of the multiverse you happen to be in it's about your intent it's about your attention so

569
00:42:27,220 --> 00:42:33,080
this is why the dichotomy between subjective and objective might be entirely false and this is to

570
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:40,040
is david hume that talked about this a lot i think uh but um that we all all we can do is

571
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,300
all our information is through our senses.

572
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,940
So we don't know to which extent the mind creates reality.

573
00:42:48,180 --> 00:42:50,340
But we know that it does it to some extent.

574
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,820
The only thing you can actually prove is Descartes.

575
00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:54,520
I think therefore I am.

576
00:42:54,660 --> 00:42:57,220
Or rather, the updated version is even more correct.

577
00:42:57,340 --> 00:42:59,860
I think therefore some thinking is going on somewhere.

578
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,800
You can't really prove anything but that.

579
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,560
That doesn't sound as good, though.

580
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,560
No, it's not really...

581
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,660
It's not memeable.

582
00:43:08,660 --> 00:43:11,420
what's the word i'm looking for it's not the

583
00:43:11,940 --> 00:43:22,740
desirable axiom for anything really so you have to pick your axioms and you have to to like how do

584
00:43:22,740 --> 00:43:31,300
i know that what i know is actually true and i love the austrian um model for thinking like uh

585
00:43:31,300 --> 00:43:37,840
you can actually deductively reason yourself to positions by simply acknowledging that some

586
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:43,160
statements run into logical contradictions and therefore they cannot be true. And it's

587
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:48,160
not simple semantics. It's actually true that you own your own body because you cannot argue

588
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:57,100
against it. Anyway, we need some kind of framework like that to be thinking about human beings

589
00:43:57,100 --> 00:44:04,720
and our actions at all. We have to presuppose free will and we have to start from some axiom.

590
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:08,340
So, yeah, this is deep.

591
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:13,260
Yeah, I'm going to change it up a notch because I think this is quite fascinating.

592
00:44:13,460 --> 00:44:23,380
And I want to go back to the beginning of our conversation where we were talking about Andreas and Bitcoin celebrities and stuff.

593
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:25,840
I see your name there.

594
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:32,340
That name is – well, that's only because that gives me a chance to plug one of my bonus episodes, but I'll do that later.

595
00:44:32,340 --> 00:44:32,560
Yeah.

596
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:40,540
it is fascinating like i began saying i remember this world of bitcoiners before there were

597
00:44:40,540 --> 00:44:46,240
celebrity bitcoin celebrities and i've i think you're we're not celebrities well you know what

598
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:50,760
i mean it's a bitcoin we're recognized within our own bubble yeah i know but but i can almost

599
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:57,700
remember the exact time it started happening and it was the conference in america after the pandemic

600
00:44:57,700 --> 00:45:04,620
when when i when people started realizing holy shit the last couple of years people have been

601
00:45:04,620 --> 00:45:11,540
locked away watching videos of me or you you know of some you know and suddenly they walk into a room

602
00:45:11,540 --> 00:45:16,800
full of 10 000 people and everyone knows their name and i had that experience in miami that year

603
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:23,220
like uh i came to miami and people started recognizing me on the street at miami beach

604
00:45:23,220 --> 00:45:27,220
is a completely surreal experience for a schmuck like me.

605
00:45:27,660 --> 00:45:29,060
I know, but it is interesting.

606
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,980
And it's because when we were walking here from the venue,

607
00:45:32,980 --> 00:45:37,120
you were talking about something that I find quite interesting,

608
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,960
which is that you've lost count of how many appearances you've had to do this.

609
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,300
Yeah, I reached my Dunbar's number of experiences.

610
00:45:44,740 --> 00:45:46,420
Like, it's all a mess.

611
00:45:46,660 --> 00:45:49,200
Like, I can't remember where I was and what I was doing.

612
00:45:49,340 --> 00:45:50,260
Like, I do too many.

613
00:45:50,300 --> 00:45:51,500
And what do you think about that?

614
00:45:51,780 --> 00:45:52,800
What do you think about that?

615
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,880
like think about it think about cypherpunks and bitcoin and this and what do you think about the

616
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:05,060
fact that you know now you do book signings now you kind of got to go on stage like 200 times a

617
00:46:05,060 --> 00:46:11,120
year and say something about bitcoin i know it's it's a really interesting phenomenon well luke and

618
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:18,280
i have a a thing we want to live by when we do our stuff together that my co-host for the show

619
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,300
and the co-author for Inverse of Clown World.

620
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,960
We do a lot of shit together, have our publishing house and whatnot.

621
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,560
Anyway, in anything we do, we have the saying,

622
00:46:28,700 --> 00:46:30,120
feet on the ground, head in the clouds.

623
00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:32,000
Because you need both.

624
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:33,340
You need to stay grounded.

625
00:46:33,940 --> 00:46:35,280
You need to still...

626
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:42,440
I know of authors that think it's tedious and like,

627
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,380
oh, I'm going to have to sign books again.

628
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:45,380
It's so boring.

629
00:46:45,380 --> 00:46:58,100
What they have forgotten is that the guy on the other side of the table buying the book and wanting your signature this is a true moment for them they looked forward to seeing you and you have one of

630
00:46:58,100 --> 00:47:07,300
the most the best problems in the world to have it's it's you you think it's uh tedious and boring

631
00:47:07,300 --> 00:47:15,220
to be appreciated by others like who gets to do that it's just so never lose your footing like i'm

632
00:47:15,220 --> 00:47:20,380
I'm stoked every time still that someone wants my signature.

633
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:21,540
It's just bizarre to me.

634
00:47:21,740 --> 00:47:23,000
Like, holy shit.

635
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,680
And I can pat myself on the back and say, like, you did something good here.

636
00:47:27,740 --> 00:47:28,960
I think, like, this is working.

637
00:47:29,540 --> 00:47:36,240
So I try to always remember where I came from and always remember it's the stay humble thing.

638
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,700
And I'm obviously the most humble bitcoiner ever.

639
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:41,860
In the history of Bitcoin.

640
00:47:41,860 --> 00:47:44,720
I have the platinum status humbleness.

641
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:53,540
anyway uh but but also you need your head in the clouds because you you need to uh realize that

642
00:47:53,540 --> 00:47:57,340
if you're not believing in yourself no one else is going to believe in you either

643
00:47:57,340 --> 00:48:06,260
so you can actually do way more with your life than it seems at first glance do you think that

644
00:48:06,260 --> 00:48:12,980
you wanted this like do you think because if you think about it you did absolutely i mean when i

645
00:48:12,980 --> 00:48:17,540
grew up and in my teens and stuff i wanted to be a rock star and like fortune and fame like of

646
00:48:17,540 --> 00:48:25,700
course that had a a role in it but going but the older i got it's more like i want my work to be

647
00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:32,820
recognized not my person and it's very much like that now like it's the uh josh homie of queens of

648
00:48:32,820 --> 00:48:38,940
the stone age uh expressed it nicely once he said that like when someone writes a good song they

649
00:48:38,940 --> 00:48:44,920
tend to forget that it's the song that's beautiful not them and it's like the metaphor used was like

650
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,320
if a fisherman catches a beautiful fish it's the fish that is beautiful not the fisherman

651
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:57,760
so you're and so i try to approach work that way like i try to make the books the best i can

652
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,840
and the pod the best i can and try to be myself and like but

653
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:11,200
not take myself too seriously but also uh allowed myself to to be proud of what i do and you can't

654
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,920
be proud of it if you're not proud of it so like you better put your best effort into it has anyone

655
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:22,620
ever tried to slay you as in slay the heroes yeah i've been called a hypocrite on several occasions

656
00:49:22,620 --> 00:49:31,260
for instance last time was because we have bitbox as a um a sponsor and bitbox is an old hardware

657
00:49:31,260 --> 00:49:36,060
wallet and i made some tweet about i'm not gonna attend conferences or stuff where there are shit

658
00:49:36,060 --> 00:49:42,520
coin apologists and i'm gonna be harsher against shit coinery and someone pointed out that well you

659
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:48,240
have a shit coiner sponsor but like that this is a hardware wallet that has been around since

660
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:53,260
forever and they're very much bitcoin focused they just still have those services i think it's

661
00:49:53,260 --> 00:49:58,240
different with a company that has its legacy back in when bitcoin maximalism wasn't even a thing

662
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:02,520
and companies that turn shit coinery afterwards

663
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,740
or companies that are deliberately confusing people.

664
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:07,900
Like Coinbase, for instance.

665
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:09,780
Brian Armstrong never says Bitcoin.

666
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,160
He says crypto all the time.

667
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,220
And it's like because he makes money doing that.

668
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:15,260
But it's dishonest.

669
00:50:15,260 --> 00:50:20,260
So, like, I mean, to a certain extent,

670
00:50:20,380 --> 00:50:21,900
I think everyone's a hypocrite,

671
00:50:22,060 --> 00:50:24,340
but you sort of have to pick your battles.

672
00:50:24,340 --> 00:50:32,160
And unfortunately, everyone still needs fiat income to survive in the world we're living in.

673
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:41,080
And every time I use fiat, I am aware that I'm stealing from my children and I'm participating in a crime, basically, by using fiat.

674
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:51,080
I'm using money that someone has the ability to counterfeit at will and that I'm enabling that criminal every time I use it.

675
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,020
But I'm very aware of that.

676
00:50:53,160 --> 00:51:00,220
And I try to be aware of when I'm being hypocritical and try to be as truthful as possible.

677
00:51:00,500 --> 00:51:02,840
And I don't want to keep secrets from people.

678
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:05,600
What's your thoughts on that?

679
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:07,660
Do you agree with this?

680
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,800
Would you take a bag of shit coins?

681
00:51:11,300 --> 00:51:13,080
Would it depend on the size of the bag?

682
00:51:13,340 --> 00:51:14,660
No, I wouldn't.

683
00:51:15,140 --> 00:51:18,760
But I think if you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

684
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,020
I don't go around saying, oh, you shouldn't shitcoin.

685
00:51:22,340 --> 00:51:24,200
I'm more like you can do whatever you want.

686
00:51:25,020 --> 00:51:27,120
And if you live by the fork, you die by the fork.

687
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,040
But, yeah, are you saying I'm overweight?

688
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,580
No, no, I'm thinking of hard forks.

689
00:51:32,220 --> 00:51:35,980
But, for example, I would love more sponsors on this show.

690
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:38,420
And I had the option to have a sponsor.

691
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:44,640
But, and I can't even say who they were because it would, I just don't want to.

692
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:52,680
But it was something I decided not to go with because I thought it was not on brand and it's to do with crypto.

693
00:51:53,420 --> 00:51:55,820
So in that sense, yes.

694
00:51:55,900 --> 00:52:05,640
But I think probably if you analysed everything I do, like I have people on it, like a lot of the people in the Free Cities world has a spectrum of people in it.

695
00:52:06,100 --> 00:52:12,120
And you do get, like I went to Zuzalu, which was a pop-up city in Montenegro.

696
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,220
Vitalik paid for the whole thing.

697
00:52:14,220 --> 00:52:32,620
Vitalik was there. It was a weird experience seeing him in real life. He's a strange guy. He's not my kind of person at all. And I don't mind that. I tried to actually get him on the show, but he wouldn't come. And I wasn't going to gotcha him. I don't care. I really enjoy talking to people and getting to the bottom of everything.

698
00:52:32,620 --> 00:52:38,360
but but um a lot of the people in the free cities movement especially the people in the longevity

699
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:45,340
space and people who are creating you know pop up this and new cities belagi you know there's a lot

700
00:52:45,340 --> 00:52:49,940
of people on that side of the spectrum that don't have a problem with it they see it as a technology

701
00:52:49,940 --> 00:52:55,300
that they're they're just working with and so i'm shit coining in that sense because i'm giving them

702
00:52:55,300 --> 00:53:02,140
a platform but but i don't care i i i believe i really do believe in in people listening to

703
00:53:02,140 --> 00:53:04,220
opinions and making their own money.

704
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:05,820
There is a

705
00:53:05,820 --> 00:53:07,800
balance to be struck there.

706
00:53:08,380 --> 00:53:10,120
Because platforming

707
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:11,500
dishonest people,

708
00:53:12,380 --> 00:53:14,040
it's not something I want to do.

709
00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:14,840
And sometimes

710
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,020
in hindsight realize that they were not

711
00:53:18,020 --> 00:53:19,040
playing a straight game.

712
00:53:20,260 --> 00:53:21,220
But for instance,

713
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,180
you have to weigh the potential

714
00:53:24,180 --> 00:53:25,640
good against the

715
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:27,140
already detected bad.

716
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,060
For instance, I disagree with

717
00:53:30,060 --> 00:53:32,100
Bitcoin Magazine about a lot of things.

718
00:53:32,140 --> 00:53:34,280
And I think they're into some dodgy stuff.

719
00:53:35,500 --> 00:53:39,880
Regardless of that, I'm good friends with one of the editors.

720
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:44,240
And he wanted to publish two chapters of my Praxeology book in Bacor magazine.

721
00:53:44,420 --> 00:53:45,020
So I let him.

722
00:53:45,720 --> 00:53:47,700
Because I get more eyes on it.

723
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:49,200
The ideas in there are sound.

724
00:53:49,340 --> 00:53:53,260
And if that can help people, then that's good.

725
00:53:54,460 --> 00:53:57,280
But this is a tricky thing.

726
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:02,760
The guilt by association thing seems like a very left-winger thing.

727
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:03,640
Yeah, I agree.

728
00:54:04,060 --> 00:54:13,000
And I think people should, if they get burned, and of course no one should bail them out, they should take responsibility for their own actions.

729
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:18,020
But I really don't want to help scammers scam people.

730
00:54:18,260 --> 00:54:20,860
I still want to call a scammer a scammer.

731
00:54:21,540 --> 00:54:23,540
But there's a balance to be struck for sure.

732
00:54:23,540 --> 00:54:30,460
um i'm about to plug a bonus episode now because it's it's interesting and relative to this i don't

733
00:54:30,460 --> 00:54:35,900
know whether you know on fountain now they do i i host on fountain and fountain allow you to do

734
00:54:35,900 --> 00:54:40,900
bonus episodes and stuff great i started doing them but i started yeah i started digging out

735
00:54:40,900 --> 00:54:46,320
old episodes of things i've done with bitcoin is in the past that never actually in the past that

736
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:51,700
never got published because i was i was making a film once about proof of work years ago just

737
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:56,760
which the pandemic just annihilated and i'd done lots and lots of interviews with really

738
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:02,100
interesting bitcoiners yeah and one of them was with gg oh yeah never been never been heard before

739
00:55:02,100 --> 00:55:07,640
really but except by me and him it's four hours of us talking so i started putting so i i chopped

740
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:12,180
it into two and i put one out a few weeks ago and the second one i i listened to it back the other

741
00:55:12,180 --> 00:55:16,540
night it's actually the first time i've listened to it since we spoke it oh and it's hilarious

742
00:55:16,540 --> 00:55:22,500
because do you know what was happening at that time is breed love had just done the um big cloud

743
00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:28,620
thing yeah yeah and gg is hilarious he's he's the funniest motherfucker on the planet yeah yeah i

744
00:55:28,620 --> 00:55:33,800
know and we were talking about it and it brought back all these kind of sweet memories i mean you

745
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:40,840
know i i i've always been a little bit skeptical of robert breed love for that reason nothing else

746
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:47,060
once again you know separate you can separate people into different categories like they can be

747
00:55:47,060 --> 00:55:52,140
they can do this but they can also do that you know great painters can be ourselves you know

748
00:55:52,140 --> 00:55:59,220
yeah but but it's very funny like oh yeah exactly but it's very funny listening to us talk about it

749
00:55:59,220 --> 00:56:06,040
because i forgot about that whole world of of and this was the time when the the celebrity the cult

750
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:06,540
of celebrity.

751
00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:07,180
Like you said,

752
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:08,180
we were all slaying.

753
00:56:08,180 --> 00:56:21,440
I had gotten to know Breedlove pretty well by then and I was disappointed as fuck that he did that But then I think like and some people just cut him out completely and slayed him

754
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:26,900
I think he somewhat redeemed himself by just putting out great content for a while.

755
00:56:27,420 --> 00:56:31,880
But it's like some people just, once in a while, they do this really dodgy thing

756
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,620
and everyone's like, oh my God, why the fuck did he do that?

757
00:56:34,620 --> 00:56:41,380
and if they can just make up for it with enough good stuff then that's it's some somewhat

758
00:56:41,380 --> 00:56:46,520
forgivable like i believe in second chances i don't believe in third chances so i'll say that

759
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:53,060
that's a that's a very common trust people once yeah and yeah yeah when people show you who they

760
00:56:53,060 --> 00:56:59,000
really are we believe them and all of that but i do believe there's a power in forgiveness too

761
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,700
and that people can change.

762
00:57:00,980 --> 00:57:05,520
And if you can and if you think it's appropriate,

763
00:57:05,660 --> 00:57:07,240
you should give people a second chance,

764
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:09,040
but you should never give them a third chance.

765
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:16,140
The thing is, though, I doubt, in this case, Robert Breedlove needs any forgiveness.

766
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,380
I doubt he's looking for forgiveness.

767
00:57:18,540 --> 00:57:24,520
If it was me and I did that, I wouldn't care if Knut thought he was going to forgive me.

768
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:24,540
No, no, no.

769
00:57:24,580 --> 00:57:25,440
He probably doesn't.

770
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:35,400
he did uh he did make an apology of about it quite close to when it happened like it was really i

771
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,420
think that's what we were talking about it was pretty passive aggressive though it was it wasn't

772
00:57:39,420 --> 00:57:45,600
really an apology it was sort of doubling down yeah so that was like yeah and then he disappeared

773
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:50,900
for a while and then he came back doing great content so like yeah i'm i'm willing to like

774
00:57:50,900 --> 00:57:56,140
forget about that funny thing is i i haven't listened i don't think i've listened i should

775
00:57:56,140 --> 00:58:01,840
go back to is he still doing the what is money show yeah he is and he's got eric stacks on now

776
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,460
like as he's uh they're doing stuff together and sometimes it's just eric and sometimes it's just

777
00:58:06,460 --> 00:58:13,560
rob and i went to miami like a month ago and uh i was really going to naples and then to canada but

778
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:19,980
but i stopped by breedlove's house in in miami and and did a pod with eric uh the cannabis farmer

779
00:58:19,980 --> 00:58:21,080
if you know about him.

780
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:22,700
The guy that always wears a hat.

781
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:22,940
Yeah.

782
00:58:22,940 --> 00:58:24,660
Yeah, great guy.

783
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,420
Yeah, I don't know where he popped up at somewhere

784
00:58:27,420 --> 00:58:28,880
in the last couple of years.

785
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:30,100
All right.

786
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:31,200
And how was that?

787
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:32,380
It was great.

788
00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:34,840
I had been up for 20 hours at the time

789
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:35,940
because I'd been traveling.

790
00:58:37,100 --> 00:58:38,540
Prague was just before that.

791
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,140
And I said goodbye to my family and traveled for 20 hours.

792
00:58:42,140 --> 00:58:46,420
So, but talking about phases,

793
00:58:46,420 --> 00:58:53,560
like the the the kind of the the bitcoin movement goes through and you've got that time when you had

794
00:58:53,560 --> 00:59:00,240
all these celebrities appearing and then everyone got slayed and then the and what i feel like now

795
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:06,100
there's there's there's a couple of things happening which also kind of seem to be in

796
00:59:06,100 --> 00:59:11,040
conflict with each other on the one hand you've got this absolute joy and excitement about the

797
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:17,660
price and about the amount of legitimizing things that are happening and this is incredible but then

798
00:59:17,660 --> 00:59:23,220
on the other end of the spectrum the real world is getting really shitty and and you would imagine

799
00:59:23,220 --> 00:59:27,980
that this is these two are obviously related it's like that scene in the big short like

800
00:59:27,980 --> 00:59:37,780
just don't fucking dance so so but i feel like i'm currently feeling two emotions at the same time

801
00:59:37,780 --> 00:59:44,900
literally like pure dread and i mean in the form of like you know say the latest one in the uk the

802
00:59:44,900 --> 00:59:51,740
online safety bill it's horrible yeah all this stuff but also the fact that a lot of bitcoiners

803
00:59:51,740 --> 00:59:55,980
are getting rich and now they're starting to realize right i'd like to do something with my

804
00:59:55,980 --> 01:00:03,620
money and now they're going oh how do i spend it without doing xyz because i believe in this and i

805
01:00:03,620 --> 01:00:11,880
don't believe that you know and that's that seems to be this kind of reality check happening that

806
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:18,000
that is like yeah it's you know it's real it's real like a lot of bitcoiners are trying to now

807
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:23,760
do things in real life it's gone beyond you know it used to be a movement it was a cypherpunk thing

808
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,520
then it was kind of like oh we're getting a bit rich and now it's like right it's not enough to

809
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:33,740
just be a bitcoiner i've got to do something yeah you know but i was going to use my stack but now

810
01:00:33,740 --> 01:00:39,780
oh i'm going to get capital gains taxed or i'm going to get a kyc yeah but that only applies if

811
01:00:39,780 --> 01:00:46,440
you actually receive fiat money in a bank account like if you exchange your bitcoin for cash somewhere

812
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:53,260
or if you buy something from someone with your sets no one's going to care like the the only

813
01:00:53,260 --> 01:01:00,180
triggers for all this tax stuff is if you actually touch the banking system. So I would say that's a

814
01:01:00,180 --> 01:01:04,280
problem with the banking system and not a problem with Bitcoin. And it's also a problem with people

815
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:09,560
not having the courage to not give a fuck about what these self-proclaimed leaders tell them is

816
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:15,820
correct. Like, yeah, you should take care so that you don't end up in trouble and some public

817
01:01:15,820 --> 01:01:22,920
criminal takes 30% of your money. But then don't use their services. Like, don't use the banks.

818
01:01:23,260 --> 01:01:29,600
So if we want this to be an actual opt-out option, we need to start using it.

819
01:01:29,780 --> 01:01:35,660
And when you're doing all the conferencing, you see it happening because everyone's using Bitcoin and no one's giving a fuck.

820
01:01:35,860 --> 01:01:41,140
And because it's way more convenient, it's way better in every single sense, and everyone's just using Bitcoin.

821
01:01:43,660 --> 01:01:47,100
And we need to make that happen in the real world too.

822
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:49,200
And I'm using the word we too much.

823
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:50,440
I don't really believe in that word.

824
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:55,720
But I think it sort of implies a collectivist thing.

825
01:01:56,340 --> 01:01:58,800
Who am I to say what other people should do?

826
01:01:59,080 --> 01:01:59,800
That kind of thing.

827
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:00,780
I don't take it.

828
01:02:00,940 --> 01:02:01,900
But anyway.

829
01:02:02,100 --> 01:02:03,480
It's more warming than that.

830
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:04,060
Yeah.

831
01:02:04,780 --> 01:02:17,620
I wish that people were more courageous and dared to bite the hand that obviously doesn't feed them and stop caring about stuff.

832
01:02:17,620 --> 01:02:27,040
And to me, the things are happening in the UK, and I think there's something like 30 arrests for social media posts per day or something.

833
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:27,960
It's insane now.

834
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,800
Why isn't there the biggest uprising ever against that?

835
01:02:33,900 --> 01:02:40,560
George Orwell was born in the UK, and this is worse than anything he ever imagined.

836
01:02:40,980 --> 01:02:42,020
It's insane.

837
01:02:42,020 --> 01:02:42,740
Do you know what?

838
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:43,640
That just reminded me.

839
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:56,560
I wrote down this quote this morning and I was going to bring it up with one of my former guests, but it's very it would fit right in now because it's it's George Orwell wrote this.

840
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:05,240
hayek's thesis is that socialism inevitably leads to despotism and that the nazis were able to

841
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:12,960
succeed because socialists had already done most of the work for them especially the intellectual

842
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:18,440
work of weakening the desire for liberty yeah and the the hardest pill to swallow

843
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,980
is that democracy is socialism.

844
01:03:23,460 --> 01:03:26,120
Democracy leads to totalitarianism.

845
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,420
It's the most taboo thing to ever critique,

846
01:03:29,740 --> 01:03:32,540
but it's based on majority rule

847
01:03:32,540 --> 01:03:37,540
and based on that some people are allowed

848
01:03:37,540 --> 01:03:40,600
to steal stuff from other people without their consent.

849
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,920
And I just think it's immoral through and through,

850
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,920
and I think it always leads to more and more theft,

851
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:51,340
more and more totalitarianism.

852
01:03:51,820 --> 01:03:53,900
Once an institution is in place,

853
01:03:53,980 --> 01:03:55,580
it's going to fight for its own survival,

854
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,540
like every other living being.

855
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,620
All governments need to extract more and more over time,

856
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,520
and you see this cycle playing out over and over again

857
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,180
until there's a revolution and a reset,

858
01:04:09,420 --> 01:04:13,360
and then we go back to somewhat more respected property rights.

859
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:23,360
But all the horrors of the 20th century with the world wars, we haven't fixed the core problem yet, the money printing.

860
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:28,560
It's what financed both wars and what led to both wars.

861
01:04:29,100 --> 01:04:33,460
In a way, the first world war is still ongoing and the bad guys won.

862
01:04:33,660 --> 01:04:35,040
They're still stealing our stuff.

863
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,100
They're still doing whatever they want to us.

864
01:04:37,980 --> 01:04:40,840
That's the thing we have to resist.

865
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:48,340
like uh i'm totally there by the way i'm radicalized fully 100 anarcho-capitalist

866
01:04:48,340 --> 01:04:54,580
i think government is a net bad and we would be better off without it and i think you can

867
01:04:54,580 --> 01:05:01,420
reason yourself to that position without needing any evidence it's an a priori deductible

868
01:05:01,420 --> 01:05:09,680
knowledge that everyone could who just sat down and thunk could like reason themselves into

869
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:14,300
Does it ever solve itself though, other than cyclically?

870
01:05:14,300 --> 01:05:18,140
It solves itself individually.

871
01:05:18,140 --> 01:05:21,680
Like individuals do find ways to navigate around it.

872
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:25,340
And the more individuals that do that, the better off we are.

873
01:05:25,340 --> 01:05:42,860
The more we can separate ourselves from the state on an individual level the better it gets But this is not something that can be solved democratically It cannot be solved from within the system you have to take matters in you to your own hands you have to follow your heart

874
01:05:42,860 --> 01:05:52,040
and your balls and fuck off it's the only way democracy leads to totalitarianism i think i'm

875
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,760
gonna have to call the episode this that's a really bold i like the way you described it as

876
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:01,440
well as the ultimate red pill yeah there's the hopper book uh democracy the god that failed yes

877
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:15,260
But there's also a newer book, I don't remember its name, but it was released just a couple of years ago, that Andre from Free Madeira recommended about how democracy is flawed.

878
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:16,980
I mean…

879
01:06:16,980 --> 01:06:20,860
All forms of democracy? What about direct democracy and all this kind of stuff?

880
01:06:20,860 --> 01:06:28,840
you know pirate there are grades grades of of it of course uh and a a democracy in which only

881
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:36,300
property owners uh get to vote about their stuff is obviously better than a democracy where everyone

882
01:06:36,300 --> 01:06:44,780
gets to vote uh but but still i think we would do better without it a popularity contest that's

883
01:06:44,780 --> 01:06:51,900
not at all give anyone any other any more natural right to take my stuff or anyone else's for that

884
01:06:51,900 --> 01:06:58,400
matter it's it's it's not natural and it's something we can and will do without at some

885
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:06,980
point i i believe bitcoin fixes this if we allow it to but it's all so you think in a bitcoin future

886
01:07:06,980 --> 01:07:13,880
we won't trend towards this outcome because if you think about it on an individual level it's

887
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:17,840
easy for you to decide i'm not going to steal someone's stuff but as you get more and more

888
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:25,760
collective it becomes no but this is this is this is the flawed thinking like we have to stop using

889
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:32,340
the word we because it implies that we ought to do something together and it's much more important

890
01:07:32,340 --> 01:07:36,800
that people do this individually if you don't take matters into your own hands and if you don't

891
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:42,040
reclaim the driver's seat of your life no one else is going to do it for you if you outsource that to

892
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:47,260
groupthink thing, then you end up in the same dilemma as you were in the first place.

893
01:07:47,700 --> 01:07:49,660
That's the whole we thing.

894
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:52,260
That's the collectivist trap.

895
01:07:52,900 --> 01:07:56,380
That's what leads to democracy, which then leads to totalitarianism.

896
01:07:56,900 --> 01:08:03,820
Of course, different governmental models have their own flaws, like a monarchy is not flawless,

897
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:06,220
a dictatorship is absolutely not flawless.

898
01:08:06,220 --> 01:08:14,240
But thinking that we solve all problems by just being democratic is just naive and ignorant.

899
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:24,840
We've been taught, like we've been spoon fed this propaganda from public service media outlets and 12 years of mandatory schooling.

900
01:08:25,060 --> 01:08:33,860
Where we've been taught that a belief in democracy is just as vital and important and true as one plus one equals two.

901
01:08:33,860 --> 01:08:35,660
Which is absolutely not.

902
01:08:35,660 --> 01:08:47,340
It's an opinion that the people that hold the opinion are more often than not people who live off of others and just take stuff violently from them.

903
01:08:49,440 --> 01:08:56,700
I think it's mind-blowing that the entire world is sort of brainwashed into this mode of thinking that this is the only way.

904
01:08:57,620 --> 01:08:59,140
I absolutely don't think it is.

905
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:04,680
I think respecting property rights is the absolute most crucial thing for that is peace in my mind.

906
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:13,100
i i i'm a relative um newcomer to that idea though i've spent most of my life believing that

907
01:09:13,100 --> 01:09:19,060
and so it's so did i i'm a big like 40 years deeply about as many things as i can yeah but

908
01:09:19,060 --> 01:09:25,220
that just shows you you said you can't understand why it's such a prevalent idea and no it's

909
01:09:25,220 --> 01:09:32,100
everywhere but but it is and we've both fallen for it in the past so so and i think i know why

910
01:09:32,100 --> 01:09:36,560
I mean, on face value, it seems really fair, doesn't it?

911
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:38,160
Yeah, but only if you...

912
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:41,400
It's superficial to think it is, though.

913
01:09:41,620 --> 01:09:42,240
Of course, yeah.

914
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:47,760
I know now that in reality, even, I mean, we've just gone through an election

915
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:54,100
where I think the guys who won got in on 20% of the total number of people

916
01:09:54,700 --> 01:09:57,160
in the country's votes, which is...

917
01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:58,920
So obviously that's broken.

918
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:03,860
but people looked at that and kind of went oh well uh not many people came out to vote

919
01:10:03,860 --> 01:10:10,620
so be it like no one they don't get a shit wrong you know do you know how often they have elections

920
01:10:10,620 --> 01:10:22,660
in china they never do they have them every morning sorry this is the kind of stuff that

921
01:10:22,660 --> 01:10:32,160
gives you a bad reputation okay sorry about that but um but no i mean it's it's a very it is it is

922
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:38,400
the ultimate red pill in this day and age if you are a thinking person yeah i see people constantly

923
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:45,580
arguing over politics but never stopping to think that it's the politics that's the problem

924
01:10:45,580 --> 01:10:49,560
no you know what i mean and never seeing the connection between the monetary system and

925
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:55,740
politics never seeing how the monetary monetary policy is what makes the cancer grow so fast and

926
01:10:55,740 --> 01:11:03,560
so large like all the good stuff originated from a time where taxes were way lower

927
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:10,840
they're higher than they have ever been in all all of the western world at least and it's just

928
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:17,300
it's just growing larger and like my home country sweden that now supposedly has a right-wing

929
01:11:17,300 --> 01:11:24,020
government they didn't cut any spending they just changed some stuff like the not there's not a

930
01:11:24,020 --> 01:11:30,740
single party that wants to reduce the size of the state apparatus so which means to me means that

931
01:11:30,740 --> 01:11:35,140
it's going to eat everything at some point what about mille what do you think of mille he seems

932
01:11:35,140 --> 01:11:41,240
to be doing that right i think he's uh entertaining and i love that he exists and i love that he

933
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,020
quotes Rothbard all the time but I

934
01:11:43,020 --> 01:11:44,840
urge any

935
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:46,840
self-respecting

936
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,080
anarcho-capitalist

937
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:51,260
to watch Hoppe talk about

938
01:11:51,260 --> 01:11:53,220
Milley and how much of his

939
01:11:53,220 --> 01:11:55,300
politics that are really not

940
01:11:55,300 --> 01:11:56,940
that libertarian. Well Hoppe

941
01:11:56,940 --> 01:11:58,400
has commented on it. Yeah.

942
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,980
And he views Milley as some

943
01:12:00,980 --> 01:12:03,180
a bit of a clown

944
01:12:03,180 --> 01:12:05,300
that he says one thing but does

945
01:12:05,300 --> 01:12:07,120
another. I mean the state is

946
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:08,840
still very much present in Argentina

947
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,120
and he took out a big loan

948
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:14,340
to finance the central bank once again to strengthen the pesos.

949
01:12:14,540 --> 01:12:16,240
The peso is a bit better than before,

950
01:12:16,340 --> 01:12:23,780
but it's really not walking the walk the entire 21 miles.

951
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,520
But of course, I love that he exists.

952
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:29,540
I think he's enormously entertaining.

953
01:12:30,980 --> 01:12:32,880
To me, politicians are –

954
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:35,760
I can say I like a politician more than another,

955
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,120
but I don't like any politicians.

956
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:49,880
And I think comparing Miele to any politician in the UK is like, yeah, sure, I'd rather have the flu than testicle cancer.

957
01:12:50,460 --> 01:12:54,700
Like, so he's the lesser of two evils, absolutely.

958
01:12:54,940 --> 01:12:56,640
And he's going to change the country for the better.

959
01:12:58,740 --> 01:13:04,580
But he's still not an anarcho-capitalist, really, in my opinion.

960
01:13:04,580 --> 01:13:11,100
think he i mean he he claims to be at least but do you think he's just that's as good as he can do

961
01:13:11,100 --> 01:13:16,660
within the framework of the well there's some truth to that that these reforms are hard and

962
01:13:16,660 --> 01:13:26,280
he has to play the game to a certain extent but yeah uh we are yet to see where where where the

963
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:31,300
melee experiment ends up and uh yeah i'm giving willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for

964
01:13:31,300 --> 01:13:38,140
a while but and i think he's definitely better than any alternative so do we have any examples

965
01:13:38,140 --> 01:13:46,040
in history that are particularly inspiring in in apart from revolutions bloody revolutions

966
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:54,380
what are the what are the good examples of of governments getting smaller for want of a better

967
01:13:54,380 --> 01:14:08,580
word? Hong Kong? In what sense? Hong Kong was very free for 50 years when it belonged to the UK,

968
01:14:08,580 --> 01:14:16,700
but was a free trade zone. And they had almost no taxes and was very laissez-faire. And it went from

969
01:14:16,700 --> 01:14:22,240
a village in the countryside to skyscrapers everywhere. That's a good example.

970
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:29,700
I wasn't looking for that kind of example, but I mean like governments voting themselves smaller and solving the problem.

971
01:14:29,900 --> 01:14:34,080
But no, but let's stick to Hong Kong because you've basically just described a free city.

972
01:14:34,340 --> 01:14:37,440
Yeah, in a way it was a free city.

973
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,060
Of course not 100% free, but what is?

974
01:14:40,300 --> 01:14:48,220
But I mean a place run by merchants with very small political moves.

975
01:14:48,220 --> 01:14:59,980
All the Hansa cities, some of the most beautiful cities around Northern Europe, all the beautiful buildings and everything were built during a time where merchants,

976
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:03,300
gave very few fucks about what the kings thought about them.

977
01:15:04,140 --> 01:15:07,740
And it's a testament to how good things can get

978
01:15:07,740 --> 01:15:10,220
when you get that kind of trade going.

979
01:15:10,480 --> 01:15:11,300
Venice also.

980
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:12,040
Venice, yeah.

981
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:13,700
The most successful city in the world.

982
01:15:13,700 --> 01:15:13,820
Amsterdam.

983
01:15:14,700 --> 01:15:14,940
Yeah.

984
01:15:15,500 --> 01:15:17,280
But no, I agree with you.

985
01:15:17,340 --> 01:15:20,200
I agree that the places –

986
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:22,320
I mean, Dubai is doing the same thing at the moment.

987
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:25,240
It's traders going there to trade,

988
01:15:25,340 --> 01:15:28,080
not really to go there and vote on who does what.

989
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:33,740
Yeah, but good and bad. I mean, Dubai is still totalitarian in some senses.

990
01:15:36,740 --> 01:15:56,460
But the reason Europeans are moving to Dubai more than Dubaians are moving to Europe is that when you actually watch people's actions, you can see that they enjoy property rights more than they enjoy free speech because they're moving in that direction.

991
01:15:56,460 --> 01:16:01,760
so uh yeah you can't say anything you want about the sheik or whatever in in dubai

992
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:10,180
i've got a thought experiment for you um i want to hear what you would say if say you had um you

993
01:16:10,180 --> 01:16:16,500
had a totalitarian this is something we discuss in the movement quite a lot you have a totalitarian

994
01:16:16,500 --> 01:16:23,760
totalitarian government that wants to start a free city in their in their country because it's

995
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:32,200
freer inside the city like a version of um dubai when it was when it was before dubai was dubai

996
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:38,800
isn't that what prosper is sort of or um well i wouldn't call not at the time i wouldn't have

997
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:46,500
called um honduras a totalitarian place say say somewhere like um well no the here's an example

998
01:16:46,500 --> 01:16:53,280
the example would be dubai had sharia law for example and it created a small pocket inside of

999
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:59,280
dubai which allowed common law and as a result western businesses could move in because they

1000
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:05,280
the financial district that worked on common law now imagine it's a pretty totalitarian country

1001
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:13,500
but the the the ruler wants some kind of reform so he creates a little oasis of more freedom than

1002
01:17:13,500 --> 01:17:20,720
totalitarianism so not not not complete freedom is that a good or a bad thing well it's with always

1003
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:25,400
with a caveat though right because it's his personal experiment and he can rug you at any

1004
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:31,320
time okay but still it's still is it still something you would pursue or not pursue how

1005
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:37,060
well like say because in this movement we're like my my my opinion would be look is it better than

1006
01:17:37,060 --> 01:17:42,960
is is is life inside there better than life outside of there if it is probably do it do it

1007
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:47,400
you know regardless of what you think is going to happen the whole vote with your feet thing

1008
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:59,860
It's absolutely a thing, and it's going to drive out the freer countries, and the more Bitcoin-friendly countries are going to attract better brains.

1009
01:18:00,020 --> 01:18:09,360
It's a brain drain thing, and the more the government gives to passivity, the more it's going to attract passive.

1010
01:18:09,660 --> 01:18:11,120
I mean, you get what you pay for.

1011
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:14,540
So that's definitely a thing.

1012
01:18:14,540 --> 01:18:16,440
but I think it's equally important

1013
01:18:16,440 --> 01:18:18,880
if you can't move with your feet

1014
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:20,160
and if you don't want to

1015
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:22,440
it's very important that you stay where you are

1016
01:18:22,440 --> 01:18:23,480
and take the fight

1017
01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:26,940
as soon as you think the situation

1018
01:18:26,940 --> 01:18:27,560
is hopeless

1019
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:29,180
they've won

1020
01:18:29,180 --> 01:18:31,900
never lose hope

1021
01:18:31,900 --> 01:18:34,080
optimism to me

1022
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:36,220
and this is in the revised version

1023
01:18:36,220 --> 01:18:37,860
of the Praxeology book

1024
01:18:37,860 --> 01:18:39,540
in a chapter called What About the Roads

1025
01:18:39,540 --> 01:18:43,040
if you look at the movie

1026
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:44,260
The Shawshank Redemption

1027
01:18:44,260 --> 01:18:46,180
You know the famous prison movie, right?

1028
01:18:46,420 --> 01:18:46,680
Andy.

1029
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:47,040
Love it.

1030
01:18:47,500 --> 01:18:53,000
Andy Dufresne is the protagonist and his best friend Red, played by Morgan Freeman.

1031
01:18:53,260 --> 01:19:01,300
And then you have a character called Brooks Shields, who's 90 years old and gets released from the prison when he's 90.

1032
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:05,300
And he spends two weeks outside and then he hangs himself.

1033
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:08,260
And he does so because he's being completely institutionalized.

1034
01:19:08,260 --> 01:19:13,460
institutionalized. In the prison, he knew the rules and he gets his three free meals per day.

1035
01:19:13,980 --> 01:19:19,580
He knows his bedtime. The outside world was terrifying to him because he had been

1036
01:19:19,580 --> 01:19:25,760
indoctrinated to think that hope was a dangerous thing. And this is what Red tells Andy in the

1037
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:31,860
movie, that hope is dangerous because all it will bring you is misery because there is no hope.

1038
01:19:31,860 --> 01:19:34,480
this is really the gist of the movie

1039
01:19:34,480 --> 01:19:37,080
so what Andy does

1040
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:38,900
he has this entire career

1041
01:19:38,900 --> 01:19:40,920
within the prison and does

1042
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:43,060
favors for the prison warden who then

1043
01:19:43,060 --> 01:19:45,000
later rugs him and is really mean

1044
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:47,060
to him and he's just stuck in there forever

1045
01:19:47,060 --> 01:19:48,860
it seems but every day

1046
01:19:48,860 --> 01:19:50,900
he's been doing the low time preference thing

1047
01:19:50,900 --> 01:19:53,020
and taking a spoon and digging

1048
01:19:53,020 --> 01:19:54,780
out a big tunnel in the wall

1049
01:19:54,780 --> 01:19:56,500
behind a poster in his cell

1050
01:19:56,500 --> 01:19:59,100
and he finally after 10 years

1051
01:19:59,100 --> 01:20:01,100
or something he escapes and he's a free

1052
01:20:01,100 --> 01:20:09,720
man and he moves to Mexico and enjoys life. And by his actions, he's showing Red that hope is never

1053
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:17,980
futile. It is the rational choice. Because you could either die fighting to be a free man,

1054
01:20:17,980 --> 01:20:23,300
or you can die a prisoner. But the catch is that you're going to die anyway,

1055
01:20:23,300 --> 01:20:28,160
so you might as well live as if hope exists.

1056
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:33,080
So by that logic, it is a first principle rational choice

1057
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:40,040
to not allow the metaphorical Shawshank walls to be real.

1058
01:20:40,540 --> 01:20:43,560
So no matter what laws your government put up around you,

1059
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:48,240
the rational choice is to have hope and not give a fuck about them.

1060
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:51,800
Give them a middle finger, either if you're staying where you are

1061
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:55,260
or if you're voting with your feet or if you become a fully-fledged Bitcoiner,

1062
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:58,340
do something to emancipate yourself.

1063
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:00,900
We can't do this collectively.

1064
01:21:01,140 --> 01:21:03,200
It's up to each and every one of us.

1065
01:21:03,540 --> 01:21:05,920
They can still extort the people who don't.

1066
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:11,580
It's tragic, but there's no such thing as fairness

1067
01:21:11,580 --> 01:21:17,980
as long as people are allowed to use violence to get what they want.

1068
01:21:17,980 --> 01:21:23,680
So you might as well live as if the prison walls, metaphorical prison walls don't exist.

1069
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:28,080
And I think that's the message I want to deliver to people.

1070
01:21:28,420 --> 01:21:29,760
Hope is a rational choice.

1071
01:21:30,100 --> 01:21:34,960
Hope is what – yeah.

1072
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:41,420
Struggling to find the last sentence here, but like, yeah, Spanoinkel, end of rant.

1073
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:46,680
Victor Frankl and Man's Search for Meaning.

1074
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:53,680
what was the hope component in that i'm just i did he unaware as in you know like man's search

1075
01:21:53,680 --> 01:22:00,360
for meaning uh as in you know not finding freedom in the most unfree situations you can like you know

1076
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:06,640
he was in a he was in a concentration camp oh yeah yeah yeah completely how does hope come into that

1077
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:12,420
equation there because it's it's interesting that freedom i was thinking about whether there was a

1078
01:22:12,420 --> 01:22:18,980
connection between freedom and hope yeah there is what is it i mean hope is a hope for more freedom

1079
01:22:18,980 --> 01:22:24,040
always like they could you could hope in your case but it might not be in someone else's case

1080
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:30,320
well what would you hope for rather than freedom children i don't know uh getting married you know

1081
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:38,780
what i mean or is it am i not going deep enough uh i mean we me currently yes in my life and in

1082
01:22:38,780 --> 01:22:46,240
the stage of my life, the number one topic that I think about is freedom in all its shapes

1083
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:46,820
and forms.

1084
01:22:47,480 --> 01:22:48,940
That's kind of on my mind.

1085
01:22:49,060 --> 01:22:53,660
There's an Austrian definition of freedom, and it's the sphere in which, let me see if

1086
01:22:53,660 --> 01:23:00,240
I can remember this correctly, the sphere in which you are able to choose between different

1087
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:01,100
modes of action.

1088
01:23:01,100 --> 01:23:10,200
and those what limits that sphere can be external things like governments or nature

1089
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:16,300
or it can be internal that your psychology prevents you from taking certain paths and you need to like

1090
01:23:16,300 --> 01:23:22,520
grow up and think outside the box and change your life if you if you want more freedom you

1091
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:27,720
have to be willing to give up some of your beliefs maybe or some of your like

1092
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:38,320
i think i mean victor frankel well the conclusion i drew is that your true freedom is in your action

1093
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:44,140
the way you relate to the thing that's happening to you so someone can lock you in a cell

1094
01:23:44,140 --> 01:23:53,040
and throw the key away but they can't choose the way you exactly appreciate they can't take your

1095
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:59,820
thoughts yeah i mean but they might in the future who knows technologically i don't know thought

1096
01:23:59,820 --> 01:24:07,620
extractor in your ears no but then they're i mean i wouldn't be surprised if in our lifetime you

1097
01:24:07,620 --> 01:24:22,348
could point a little device at someone brain and get a sense of what they thinking and that and that just phase one of of the technology technological art we on i don know i i i have a more

1098
01:24:22,348 --> 01:24:29,528
pessimistic if you will like a view of technology like we we hear that ai is going to change

1099
01:24:29,528 --> 01:24:36,048
everything and we hear that virtual reality has supposedly been a thing that is just around the

1100
01:24:36,048 --> 01:24:44,168
corner now for 30 years and all of this stuff like i think um yeah there is technological

1101
01:24:44,168 --> 01:24:52,548
progress but it more often than not it's not what we think it is like most ai is being used to

1102
01:24:52,548 --> 01:24:58,748
generate internet slop nowadays and just fake tiktok videos and whatnot no one really asked

1103
01:24:58,748 --> 01:25:00,128
or no one really needs.

1104
01:25:01,948 --> 01:25:05,468
So in a way, I think the...

1105
01:25:07,148 --> 01:25:12,368
I don't really like thinking about potential things

1106
01:25:12,368 --> 01:25:15,628
like quantum resistance in Bitcoin, for instance.

1107
01:25:16,248 --> 01:25:19,448
There's a fear that quantum computers will break everything.

1108
01:25:21,088 --> 01:25:23,768
Worry about that when these things are actually here.

1109
01:25:24,068 --> 01:25:28,248
A lot of that is just things to put on the front cover

1110
01:25:28,248 --> 01:25:31,228
of a popular science magazine, and it's not actually a thing.

1111
01:25:32,188 --> 01:25:34,208
But aren't most people thinking,

1112
01:25:34,488 --> 01:25:38,348
especially in the case of AI or quantum computing,

1113
01:25:38,808 --> 01:25:41,448
when it happens, it's going to happen quite suddenly or not?

1114
01:25:44,028 --> 01:25:45,068
Well, who knows?

1115
01:25:45,328 --> 01:25:48,828
And you say when it happens, like it's a given, but it's not.

1116
01:25:49,728 --> 01:25:55,468
The thing is, in Bitcoin, first of all,

1117
01:25:55,468 --> 01:25:58,748
quantum computing can't break SHA256.

1118
01:25:58,868 --> 01:26:01,648
It can break some other algorithms involved in Bitcoin,

1119
01:26:01,768 --> 01:26:03,548
from what I know.

1120
01:26:03,908 --> 01:26:05,568
I'm not an expert here either.

1121
01:26:06,828 --> 01:26:08,988
It can't break SHA256?

1122
01:26:09,108 --> 01:26:09,288
No.

1123
01:26:09,748 --> 01:26:11,788
I thought it was just a guessing game, though.

1124
01:26:12,148 --> 01:26:13,648
That's about compute, right?

1125
01:26:14,208 --> 01:26:14,688
Yeah.

1126
01:26:15,128 --> 01:26:18,688
I wouldn't be able to go deeper into that

1127
01:26:18,688 --> 01:26:20,008
because I don't know the reasons.

1128
01:26:20,008 --> 01:26:24,028
This is like, from what I've heard,

1129
01:26:24,028 --> 01:26:30,648
someone who i respect and know and i've forgotten whom so don't fucking clip this and turn it into

1130
01:26:30,648 --> 01:26:36,028
quotes because i'm making another point really yeah don't don't verify trust

1131
01:26:36,028 --> 01:26:46,488
anyway my point is that if if quantum computing breaks uh a lot of security algorithms that the

1132
01:26:46,488 --> 01:26:51,708
banks are much more fucked than bitcoin is because we have at least 10 minutes to fix the problem

1133
01:26:51,708 --> 01:26:57,808
at least we have 10 minutes to fix the problem they don't so we have more problems than that

1134
01:26:57,808 --> 01:27:05,688
like nuka or launch codes and stuff um i let's talk a little bit i i i'm unfortunately i know

1135
01:27:05,688 --> 01:27:13,568
we can't go for four hours today because um oh no is coming quite soon but we've we've got a bit

1136
01:27:13,568 --> 01:27:18,568
of time left can i just take a leak before we go yeah sure sure and true rogan style

1137
01:27:18,568 --> 01:27:28,128
um we were this was a this was what i was going to say was continuing on from our discussion about

1138
01:27:28,128 --> 01:27:36,088
sort of personalities in bitcoin is you end up being able to monetize it and that's good

1139
01:27:36,088 --> 01:27:40,648
because you need to make a job you have a job and this that and the other and blah blah blah and

1140
01:27:40,648 --> 01:27:48,348
one of the biggest things that people struggle with myself included is trying to work and live

1141
01:27:48,348 --> 01:27:53,828
in this world when you come from a completely different world and i've still not i have kind

1142
01:27:53,828 --> 01:28:00,588
of nailed it i suppose i i mean i am in it full time now but it's still not a very super successful

1143
01:28:00,588 --> 01:28:04,128
business and things like that and i think a lot of people now bitcoiners you're the same

1144
01:28:04,128 --> 01:28:13,248
doing all kinds of stuff you've got uh education arm to your but a bow to your sorry arrow to your

1145
01:28:13,248 --> 01:28:19,648
quiver now right and things like that um what how what is it and how does it work and and what do you

1146
01:28:19,648 --> 01:28:24,848
know what what is you're just teaching are you teaching who you're teaching bitcoin to yeah so

1147
01:28:24,848 --> 01:28:32,568
so uh i've been luke and i have been doing the um uh bitcoin infinity show for a little over two

1148
01:28:32,568 --> 01:28:39,408
years oh we're running up on three years i think yeah we started did you start before me i'm i'm

1149
01:28:39,408 --> 01:28:40,328
What episode are you on?

1150
01:28:40,628 --> 01:28:41,008
What number?

1151
01:28:42,008 --> 01:28:44,428
Do you do weekly or more than weekly?

1152
01:28:45,328 --> 01:28:46,348
We do weekly.

1153
01:28:47,228 --> 01:28:51,368
We have in the past done like two per week at certain points.

1154
01:28:52,008 --> 01:28:53,388
Because I can always look at mine.

1155
01:28:53,448 --> 01:28:55,228
Because I put one episode out on a Friday.

1156
01:28:55,408 --> 01:28:57,128
I can look and I can see how long I've been going.

1157
01:28:57,128 --> 01:28:59,248
But I need to look.

1158
01:28:59,248 --> 01:29:01,548
I'm 142 weeks now.

1159
01:29:01,768 --> 01:29:02,168
Yeah.

1160
01:29:03,188 --> 01:29:07,488
We've promised ourselves to do at least 210 episodes.

1161
01:29:07,488 --> 01:29:09,888
I think we're around 160 and something.

1162
01:29:10,128 --> 01:29:12,468
So next spring we'll be at 210

1163
01:29:12,468 --> 01:29:14,348
and we'll revaluate the whole thing

1164
01:29:14,348 --> 01:29:15,548
if it's worth doing or not.

1165
01:29:16,288 --> 01:29:19,228
But right now I think it would be worth doing

1166
01:29:19,228 --> 01:29:21,088
even if I didn't have sponsors

1167
01:29:21,088 --> 01:29:23,708
because I just love talking to people

1168
01:29:23,708 --> 01:29:27,468
and getting to know people with interesting ideas.

1169
01:29:28,008 --> 01:29:28,388
Exactly.

1170
01:29:29,068 --> 01:29:31,208
But the new thing, the educational thing

1171
01:29:31,208 --> 01:29:32,928
is the Bitcoin Infinity Academy.

1172
01:29:33,508 --> 01:29:35,268
So there's a geyser fund for that.

1173
01:29:35,268 --> 01:29:36,888
This is where I do the shilling, I guess.

1174
01:29:37,488 --> 01:29:44,948
geyser.fund slash project slash infinity and you'll find a couple of different membership tiers

1175
01:29:44,948 --> 01:29:49,908
where you can join the discussions and stuff but the the show is called the bitcoin infinity academy

1176
01:29:49,908 --> 01:29:56,808
it's basically uh we're taking a chapter from each and every one of my books per week and

1177
01:29:56,808 --> 01:30:03,728
reading that and discussing the ideas in that specific chapter um is that online that's online

1178
01:30:03,728 --> 01:30:06,348
Yeah, so it's on YouTube and Fountain and all of these.

1179
01:30:06,668 --> 01:30:11,688
But I mean, when you discuss them, do you discuss them with the students or whatever?

1180
01:30:12,028 --> 01:30:18,708
Yeah, so if you join one of these courses, you can participate in the episode.

1181
01:30:18,708 --> 01:30:24,068
Like people participate by chatting with us as we record the episode.

1182
01:30:24,208 --> 01:30:29,808
So they're not actually on camera or anything like that, but they can be in a live chat while we record the episode.

1183
01:30:30,168 --> 01:30:31,668
Safe Dean did that during the pandemic.

1184
01:30:31,808 --> 01:30:33,308
That's how I met a lot of Bitcoins.

1185
01:30:33,308 --> 01:30:33,628
Oh, really?

1186
01:30:33,728 --> 01:30:39,468
first time yeah well i was in one of his courses like way back when yeah i did the first one yeah

1187
01:30:39,468 --> 01:30:44,248
and with prince he did it um pretty young from the three cities he did it there was a few people

1188
01:30:44,248 --> 01:30:50,868
and he started recording episodes of a podcast with us all there yeah so and you and a number

1189
01:30:50,868 --> 01:30:55,788
of times you know it was a really interesting it's the same thing yeah it's very similar uh

1190
01:30:55,788 --> 01:31:01,208
because there's only there are only so many ways you can do this but it has also led to a very

1191
01:31:01,208 --> 01:31:03,348
you mentioned Giacomo and

1192
01:31:03,348 --> 01:31:06,008
we now have a very good collaboration

1193
01:31:06,008 --> 01:31:07,348
with the Plan B network

1194
01:31:07,348 --> 01:31:10,168
and to me it's a dream come true

1195
01:31:10,168 --> 01:31:11,148
to work with Giacomo

1196
01:31:11,148 --> 01:31:13,608
I've known him for almost 10 years now

1197
01:31:13,608 --> 01:31:14,228
and he's like

1198
01:31:14,228 --> 01:31:17,628
one of those people where I'm very proud

1199
01:31:17,628 --> 01:31:19,008
to call myself his friend

1200
01:31:19,008 --> 01:31:21,348
like Gigi you mentioned before

1201
01:31:21,348 --> 01:31:21,728
and like

1202
01:31:21,728 --> 01:31:24,668
these are great

1203
01:31:24,668 --> 01:31:27,028
thinkers and great educators

1204
01:31:27,028 --> 01:31:29,628
and I just love being able to work with them

1205
01:31:29,628 --> 01:31:40,568
So the other thing I'm doing with Plan B is that I was a guest star lecturer for the Plan B Business School and gave a lecture about praxeology this spring.

1206
01:31:40,568 --> 01:31:45,388
And then I was there for a week in Logano in July here.

1207
01:31:46,888 --> 01:31:58,328
They take the top 21 students in the world from the online course, and they get to spend a week in Logano, lectures every day for six days, full days.

1208
01:31:58,328 --> 01:32:05,328
and then a big ceremony afterwards where they get an official paper.

1209
01:32:05,808 --> 01:32:10,828
And most of the students from previous years have all gotten jobs in Bitcoin

1210
01:32:10,828 --> 01:32:12,628
or have their own Bitcoin business afterwards.

1211
01:32:12,628 --> 01:32:13,388
I was going to ask that.

1212
01:32:13,448 --> 01:32:15,768
Anyone who went on to great things?

1213
01:32:16,528 --> 01:32:18,448
It's like kind of an incubator, is it?

1214
01:32:18,448 --> 01:32:22,948
Yeah, I wouldn't know any specific names, but it's definitely an incubator.

1215
01:32:23,348 --> 01:32:26,028
And I mean, I love the students that were there.

1216
01:32:26,028 --> 01:32:31,028
they were very alert and very eager to learn stuff.

1217
01:32:31,408 --> 01:32:32,408
And how do they find them?

1218
01:32:34,088 --> 01:32:36,668
Well, people join from all over the world.

1219
01:32:36,768 --> 01:32:39,948
They join this online course, and then there's some tests and stuff.

1220
01:32:41,388 --> 01:32:44,948
Giacomo can probably tell you more about the details later,

1221
01:32:45,088 --> 01:32:48,448
but the best ones get to do this summer school thing.

1222
01:32:48,468 --> 01:32:49,688
And what do you think of Locarno?

1223
01:32:50,508 --> 01:32:52,208
There's something going on there, isn't there?

1224
01:32:52,228 --> 01:32:52,928
I love it.

1225
01:32:52,928 --> 01:33:09,888
I mean, what they're doing with the Plan B network and the Plan B hub, so it's a four-story building in the middle of the city that is just gorgeous and very modern design of the thing.

1226
01:33:10,208 --> 01:33:15,068
And there's a lot of co-working spaces within the building.

1227
01:33:15,068 --> 01:33:22,168
There's a gym in the basement and there's a big hall where you can give lectures and there's a podcasting room and whatnot.

1228
01:33:22,928 --> 01:33:40,496
Bitcoin is moving there but is it the kind of place is it turning into a bit of a hub Somewhat I think But Lugano is very expensive It very Swiss for lack of a better word

1229
01:33:40,976 --> 01:33:42,296
It's like Italy, but it works.

1230
01:33:44,036 --> 01:33:47,736
So the cost of living is pretty high there.

1231
01:33:47,736 --> 01:33:53,956
But then again, Bitcoin fixes this too, as we know.

1232
01:33:54,676 --> 01:34:00,816
Have you got – I mean, so you're one of those people that has voted with your feet and you've moved somewhere.

1233
01:34:01,116 --> 01:34:02,776
You don't have to say where, but –

1234
01:34:02,776 --> 01:34:03,656
I moved to Spain.

1235
01:34:03,856 --> 01:34:04,156
Yes.

1236
01:34:04,376 --> 01:34:10,036
But the reason – the biggest reason for moving to Spain is that we already had a holiday home there.

1237
01:34:10,136 --> 01:34:11,576
So we just moved down to that.

1238
01:34:11,576 --> 01:34:15,696
now we bought another house and like sold the house in sweden and sold the house in

1239
01:34:15,696 --> 01:34:21,636
spain and bought bought a bigger one in spain but uh and it was not for political reasons or

1240
01:34:21,636 --> 01:34:25,956
anything like that have you is it something you think about going forward in the future you know

1241
01:34:25,956 --> 01:34:32,156
where it seems to be on a lot of people's minds spain was never i never viewed it as a final

1242
01:34:32,156 --> 01:34:37,976
destination it's like a first like getting my family on board with the idea that we might move

1243
01:34:37,976 --> 01:34:38,596
in the future.

1244
01:34:40,296 --> 01:34:42,576
Spain seems like it goes first step.

1245
01:34:43,836 --> 01:34:44,516
And I mean,

1246
01:34:44,876 --> 01:34:46,176
the bureaucracy in Spain

1247
01:34:46,176 --> 01:34:47,776
is just completely horrible.

1248
01:34:48,616 --> 01:34:50,256
And it's very socialistic

1249
01:34:50,256 --> 01:34:51,356
and very retarded.

1250
01:34:52,176 --> 01:34:54,036
But as a Bitcoiner,

1251
01:34:54,276 --> 01:34:56,276
you sort of can be under the radar

1252
01:34:56,276 --> 01:34:57,316
pretty easily there.

1253
01:34:57,516 --> 01:34:59,716
I mean, I have no Bitcoin business

1254
01:34:59,716 --> 01:35:00,876
in Spain whatsoever.

1255
01:35:04,336 --> 01:35:07,276
So that's all in an Estonian company.

1256
01:35:07,976 --> 01:35:08,476
uh,

1257
01:35:08,476 --> 01:35:09,776
Luke and I have together.

1258
01:35:09,916 --> 01:35:12,016
We started up a company in Estonia,

1259
01:35:12,156 --> 01:35:15,476
so where we can do all the legit Bitcoin things.

1260
01:35:16,076 --> 01:35:16,396
Uh,

1261
01:35:16,456 --> 01:35:17,156
but Spain,

1262
01:35:17,356 --> 01:35:18,916
other than that,

1263
01:35:18,976 --> 01:35:19,276
it's,

1264
01:35:19,396 --> 01:35:19,696
um,

1265
01:35:19,996 --> 01:35:22,256
other than the horrible bureaucracy is,

1266
01:35:22,256 --> 01:35:24,876
it's very relaxed and good place to live.

1267
01:35:25,156 --> 01:35:25,696
Do you have,

1268
01:35:25,796 --> 01:35:26,056
uh,

1269
01:35:26,116 --> 01:35:33,736
any insight into the good places around the world where the people are moving to as,

1270
01:35:33,916 --> 01:35:35,336
of late as in,

1271
01:35:35,436 --> 01:35:36,236
especially Bitcoiners?

1272
01:35:36,436 --> 01:35:37,376
Cause it's one of those things.

1273
01:35:37,496 --> 01:35:37,616
It's,

1274
01:35:37,616 --> 01:35:38,916
It's on everyone's mind.

1275
01:35:39,916 --> 01:35:48,256
And one of the great attributes of Bitcoin is that you can travel with your wealth, which makes voting with your feet easier.

1276
01:35:48,396 --> 01:35:54,376
So I know everyone talks about it and everyone has their favorite spots, Paraguay, Uruguay, I don't know, Mexico.

1277
01:35:54,376 --> 01:35:57,796
I visited El Salvador for the first time this spring.

1278
01:35:58,796 --> 01:36:03,616
And I was positively surprised by it because a lot of Bitcoiners have said like, oh, it's fake.

1279
01:36:03,816 --> 01:36:07,016
You can't pay with Bitcoin in very many places and stuff.

1280
01:36:07,616 --> 01:36:12,556
But I went into it thinking that that was the case and I could pay with Bitcoin almost everywhere.

1281
01:36:12,716 --> 01:36:14,176
So I was happy with it.

1282
01:36:14,556 --> 01:36:18,596
What's your view on the current politics that are politicking there?

1283
01:36:19,156 --> 01:36:22,476
I mean, I just saw recently that it turns out they weren't stacking sats.

1284
01:36:22,576 --> 01:36:23,716
They were just moving stuff around.

1285
01:36:23,716 --> 01:36:26,916
Yeah, Bukele is a double-sided coin for sure.

1286
01:36:26,916 --> 01:36:31,656
And he just changed the constitution so that he can stay for longer.

1287
01:36:32,016 --> 01:36:35,676
I don't necessarily view that as bad because he's very popular.

1288
01:36:35,676 --> 01:36:39,816
And as I explained before, democracy is not optimal.

1289
01:36:40,076 --> 01:36:45,596
A benevolent dictator is probably better than a democracy for a country like El Salvador.

1290
01:36:46,916 --> 01:36:49,776
So I don't particularly mind that.

1291
01:36:51,776 --> 01:36:56,456
But yeah, it's like with all politics.

1292
01:36:56,736 --> 01:36:57,996
It's grades of hell.

1293
01:36:57,996 --> 01:37:06,076
i i think people have pointed out as well that there have been plenty of terrible leaders who

1294
01:37:06,076 --> 01:37:12,756
began life very well liked especially in that part of the world as well yeah yeah so you know

1295
01:37:12,756 --> 01:37:21,296
i don't know do you think in a place like el salvador um bitcoin can win or bitcoin has won

1296
01:37:21,296 --> 01:37:22,716
if you're saying it's being used.

1297
01:37:22,896 --> 01:37:27,016
So as a result, it's won.

1298
01:37:27,556 --> 01:37:29,676
Because before, you can't stop the train,

1299
01:37:29,896 --> 01:37:31,176
and now people are using it,

1300
01:37:31,276 --> 01:37:35,136
and in the end, it defends the government, let's say.

1301
01:37:35,296 --> 01:37:35,876
Yeah, it does.

1302
01:37:37,216 --> 01:37:40,036
The snowball has just started to roll down the hill,

1303
01:37:40,416 --> 01:37:43,196
and it's infecting the neighboring countries.

1304
01:37:43,336 --> 01:37:45,716
Costa Rica has a giant Bitcoin scene now,

1305
01:37:45,716 --> 01:37:49,616
like the Satoshi Lake or whatever it's called over there.

1306
01:37:50,716 --> 01:37:51,056
Bitcoin Lake.

1307
01:37:51,296 --> 01:37:53,016
Yeah, or Bitcoin Jungle.

1308
01:37:53,436 --> 01:37:53,916
Oh, that's it.

1309
01:37:54,296 --> 01:37:55,376
Bitcoin Jungle is the name.

1310
01:37:56,456 --> 01:37:58,376
So these things are happening.

1311
01:37:59,696 --> 01:38:01,596
And it's not only El Sonte anymore.

1312
01:38:01,716 --> 01:38:06,096
There's another smaller town in El Salvador called Berlin, up in the mountains,

1313
01:38:06,096 --> 01:38:08,876
that is basically a Bitcoin circular economy.

1314
01:38:09,896 --> 01:38:12,956
Do you think that's how it happens, through circular economies?

1315
01:38:13,356 --> 01:38:16,836
I don't believe in circular economies because I think everything's interconnected.

1316
01:38:17,336 --> 01:38:17,576
Okay.

1317
01:38:17,576 --> 01:38:25,816
So I don't particularly like the term because we're all connected, all human beings, whether we'd like to or not.

1318
01:38:26,156 --> 01:38:29,816
It's like the Kevin Bacon numbers on IMDb, if you know about those.

1319
01:38:31,356 --> 01:38:35,816
There was an experiment in one of the American universities.

1320
01:38:36,776 --> 01:38:43,056
So they took a random actor that had been working with a lot of other actors, in this case Kevin Bacon.

1321
01:38:43,056 --> 01:38:50,056
and they wanted to see the degrees of separation between the furthest they could go and the

1322
01:38:50,056 --> 01:38:51,936
furthest they could go from Kevin Bacon.

1323
01:38:52,176 --> 01:38:55,076
Like if you're Kevin Bacon, you have Kevin Bacon number zero.

1324
01:38:55,436 --> 01:38:58,896
If you've been in a movie with Kevin Bacon, you have Kevin Bacon number one.

1325
01:38:58,896 --> 01:39:03,116
If you've been in a movie with someone that has been in a movie with Kevin Bacon, you

1326
01:39:03,116 --> 01:39:05,956
have Kevin Bacon number two and so on and so forth.

1327
01:39:06,456 --> 01:39:10,436
And the furthest away from two people they could find on the entire internet movie database

1328
01:39:10,436 --> 01:39:11,396
was seven people.

1329
01:39:11,396 --> 01:39:17,756
and that's some you know extra in a bollywood movie that no one saw

1330
01:39:17,756 --> 01:39:26,616
so and and i know what that is like like think about the connections you have if

1331
01:39:26,616 --> 01:39:34,576
you've talked to giacomo um he's talked to like almost everyone like you're talking to me now i

1332
01:39:34,576 --> 01:39:40,956
have talked to michael saylor several times uh he's talked to basically everyone that's

1333
01:39:40,956 --> 01:39:42,736
Like we're super connected.

1334
01:39:44,356 --> 01:39:46,396
Saylor has talked to Donald Trump.

1335
01:39:46,996 --> 01:39:48,536
Like he has talked to almost everyone.

1336
01:39:48,736 --> 01:39:51,656
So the same thing with economies is what I'm saying.

1337
01:39:51,756 --> 01:39:59,656
Like everyone's decision influences everyone else's decision, which is also, by the way, why I don't like the term economic node.

1338
01:39:59,656 --> 01:40:01,896
But we don't need to go down that rabbit hole.

1339
01:40:04,316 --> 01:40:09,296
Something I'm even more allergic to than circular economies is money in circulation.

1340
01:40:09,296 --> 01:40:11,316
Money is never in circulation.

1341
01:40:11,636 --> 01:40:15,376
It always belongs to a certain person, and then it changes hands.

1342
01:40:15,516 --> 01:40:16,296
It's not in circulation.

1343
01:40:17,056 --> 01:40:19,576
It's a very Keynesian thing to say that.

1344
01:40:19,836 --> 01:40:25,416
Talking of Trump and the US, what's your opinion on what's going on over there?

1345
01:40:26,196 --> 01:40:32,536
Never attribute to 4D chess, which can be explained by retardation.

1346
01:40:34,576 --> 01:40:35,696
That's my opinion.

1347
01:40:35,936 --> 01:40:37,996
Hopeful about what's happening there, though?

1348
01:40:37,996 --> 01:40:41,056
I know that's good and bad.

1349
01:40:41,056 --> 01:40:47,216
I think tariffs are horribly stupid and just makes life worse for everyone involved.

1350
01:40:47,776 --> 01:40:48,936
Like all taxes.

1351
01:40:50,336 --> 01:40:53,636
Nothing making tariffs any better than any other tax.

1352
01:40:53,736 --> 01:40:55,596
They happen really quickly, though, tariffs, don't they?

1353
01:40:55,656 --> 01:40:58,596
They just come like that, and all of a sudden, you can go out of business.

1354
01:40:59,056 --> 01:41:03,456
And all of a sudden, all the prices go up in the US because now they have to charge more.

1355
01:41:03,456 --> 01:41:11,516
And it's not going to make any American less fat or less lazy or less costly to employ.

1356
01:41:11,956 --> 01:41:13,196
That's not how it works.

1357
01:41:14,596 --> 01:41:14,816
Anyway.

1358
01:41:16,736 --> 01:41:18,076
What about the Bitcoin stuff?

1359
01:41:18,336 --> 01:41:26,396
The Bitcoin stuff, I mean, ask yourself, what's better for Bitcoin, a pro-Bitcoin politician or an anti-Bitcoin politician?

1360
01:41:26,396 --> 01:41:39,896
And that's a real dilemma because if we allow a politician to dictate what a node is and them saying you're allowed to run a node, then that's not freedom.

1361
01:41:40,216 --> 01:41:40,996
That's not Bitcoin.

1362
01:41:41,736 --> 01:41:47,756
So I think in countries where it's harder to use Bitcoin, people will do their homework more.

1363
01:41:48,216 --> 01:41:49,896
So that's the irony of it.

1364
01:41:49,896 --> 01:42:05,976
What I do know from insider information from a handful of Bitcoin companies that I'm advising, I know that they see the election of Trump as less risk.

1365
01:42:06,256 --> 01:42:10,276
So they've started to do more stuff and not asking for permission, which is great.

1366
01:42:10,276 --> 01:42:15,336
you can start a wallet service or whatever in the US

1367
01:42:15,336 --> 01:42:19,516
and not give it two shits about what the EU thinks about it

1368
01:42:19,516 --> 01:42:20,716
and just launch it everywhere

1369
01:42:20,716 --> 01:42:26,976
because you can now put it on Google or Apple Play Store

1370
01:42:26,976 --> 01:42:31,196
and if not that, then just put it somewhere else

1371
01:42:31,196 --> 01:42:32,136
and put a link somewhere

1372
01:42:32,136 --> 01:42:56,564
and at least the Trump administration is not going to give a shit about that and not try to put you put you in jail for for innovating right last question because uh we one hour 40 i got to go um quick overview geopolitical future ahead um because it something

1373
01:42:56,564 --> 01:43:01,864
you probably think about it i do what do you think what do you think the future looks like

1374
01:43:01,864 --> 01:43:09,504
from here you know europe versus south america versus america versus whatever you know like what

1375
01:43:09,504 --> 01:43:14,644
what do you think is happening here because bitcoin has been massively legitimized it's

1376
01:43:14,644 --> 01:43:21,904
unbelievable really the kind of news you hear and currently even four years ago would have blown your

1377
01:43:21,904 --> 01:43:25,204
mind it would have been the biggest thing that ever happened and now people don't really give a

1378
01:43:25,204 --> 01:43:32,264
shit at all so so so something big is happening in this world but legitimized like all right you

1379
01:43:32,264 --> 01:43:40,844
know what i mean i i not your keys not your coins still applies so like i see what sailor is doing

1380
01:43:40,844 --> 01:43:49,384
for instance with this treasury company uh and uh how he's constructed this machinery on top of a

1381
01:43:49,384 --> 01:44:03,024
Like there's this metaphor with a pond and there's a waterfall and the engineer observes the waterfall and then puts dynamos and uses, harnesses the energy.

1382
01:44:03,164 --> 01:44:04,184
It's gears, isn't it?

1383
01:44:04,284 --> 01:44:05,524
Someone showed me.

1384
01:44:05,784 --> 01:44:06,324
Yeah, gears.

1385
01:44:06,464 --> 01:44:07,304
Explained it as gears.

1386
01:44:07,304 --> 01:44:08,444
Yeah, exactly.

1387
01:44:08,444 --> 01:44:12,964
And that might actually be 4D chess and not Ritter Edition, by the way.

1388
01:44:12,964 --> 01:44:19,664
But still, from what I know, MicroStrategy has all their coins with Coinbase.

1389
01:44:20,684 --> 01:44:24,164
So it's like you're trusting someone to trust someone with your coins.

1390
01:44:24,364 --> 01:44:27,024
It's two stages of separation.

1391
01:44:27,944 --> 01:44:36,184
And at the end of the day, whoever controls the keys is the actual owner of the Bitcoin.

1392
01:44:37,184 --> 01:44:40,524
So this is going deeper again.

1393
01:44:40,524 --> 01:44:48,864
ownership is your legal relationship with a a thing so i think we've done this experiment before

1394
01:44:48,864 --> 01:44:55,244
here here's your cup uh i'm i am now in possession of it belongs to the airbnb yeah okay then

1395
01:44:55,244 --> 01:44:59,644
well this water i actually did buy this cup though yeah because i didn't like your glasses

1396
01:44:59,644 --> 01:45:07,244
okay so i am now in possession of your glasses you still own them so you can say can i have my

1397
01:45:07,244 --> 01:45:11,744
glasses back please and i can give them back or i can say fuck you tim i'm taking your glasses and

1398
01:45:11,744 --> 01:45:16,024
you can't see where where i went because you can't see anything without your glasses that's the

1399
01:45:16,024 --> 01:45:21,924
difference between ownership and possession you cannot own nor possess possess a bitcoin

1400
01:45:21,924 --> 01:45:30,164
all you all you're doing is keeping a secret from someone that's that's it we we can act as if we

1401
01:45:30,164 --> 01:45:35,964
own them but we don't actually own them it's just a fucking number can you own it's not on them

1402
01:45:35,964 --> 01:45:38,464
Can you own anything in existence?

1403
01:45:38,764 --> 01:45:39,144
Absolutely.

1404
01:45:39,524 --> 01:45:41,524
But you cannot own information.

1405
01:45:42,184 --> 01:45:57,064
This is about why copyright laws and patent laws are so insanely stupid because they don't – like if you write something on that piece of paper and I read it, we both have that information.

1406
01:45:57,684 --> 01:46:01,204
So I didn't steal anything from you by copying it from you.

1407
01:46:01,204 --> 01:46:08,284
the the only reason you create artificial scarcity by copyright laws and patent laws and saying that

1408
01:46:08,284 --> 01:46:14,484
you cannot have this information this is my recipe for a goulash or whatever can i just can i just

1409
01:46:14,484 --> 01:46:22,244
before you go on because i i've never had this one answered well before i come so so my my

1410
01:46:22,244 --> 01:46:29,824
former life i was a photographer for a living and copyright was quite important in in photography

1411
01:46:29,824 --> 01:46:35,964
and i'll tell you why because for and you can just probably say to me all right it was a crap

1412
01:46:35,964 --> 01:46:41,404
business model but the business model was that you would spend some money so i would i would

1413
01:46:41,404 --> 01:46:49,224
prove i would work to create an image which i would then sell the right to use yeah does that

1414
01:46:49,224 --> 01:46:57,324
work is that is that okay copyright no right and this is this is the reason like it creates

1415
01:46:57,324 --> 01:47:02,984
artificial scarcity where there shouldn't be any and that leads to resource misallocation at some

1416
01:47:02,984 --> 01:47:10,084
point so the way i see it the 20th century was the anomaly because before the 20th century

1417
01:47:10,084 --> 01:47:14,964
century there wasn't really mass production of anything so it's only during the 20th century

1418
01:47:14,964 --> 01:47:23,424
that you can mass produce stuff and sell copies of books movies music photographs whatever you

1419
01:47:23,424 --> 01:47:24,644
But they were digital.

1420
01:47:25,024 --> 01:47:26,944
Yeah, but still.

1421
01:47:27,484 --> 01:47:37,984
So all these copyright laws were written during a time where that made sense, sort of, for people who didn't think right.

1422
01:47:37,984 --> 01:47:39,524
It was a physical thing.

1423
01:47:39,844 --> 01:47:41,584
This is my CD or whatever.

1424
01:47:42,184 --> 01:47:48,804
And then you get into the internet era where all of a sudden it's shown to the world that all the information can and should be copied.

1425
01:47:49,064 --> 01:47:50,764
And what's mine is yours, really.

1426
01:47:50,764 --> 01:47:54,924
We can share everything that's in the informational realm and no one loses.

1427
01:47:56,144 --> 01:47:58,884
And then you sell a service on top of that.

1428
01:47:58,884 --> 01:48:12,344
So, for instance, a Spotify subscription is really just the service is cataloging for you so that you don't have to put files into a certain folder.

1429
01:48:12,504 --> 01:48:13,524
That's all they're doing.

1430
01:48:13,644 --> 01:48:19,224
It's like categorizing and making it easy for you to find the correct song at the correct point.

1431
01:48:19,224 --> 01:48:26,384
but but the the information itself is infinitely copyable so so bitcoin is the first thing that

1432
01:48:26,384 --> 01:48:31,164
doesn't have that property that is in the informational realm so all of a sudden you

1433
01:48:31,164 --> 01:48:38,064
have a thing that uh everything in it can be copied but the the thing that makes the thing

1434
01:48:38,064 --> 01:48:44,524
powerful cannot be copied and that is the secret you keep from someone else and if you if you're

1435
01:48:44,524 --> 01:48:50,304
good at keeping that secret you act as if you actually own the thing so in that sense it's the

1436
01:48:50,304 --> 01:48:56,044
only ownable thing but at the end of the day it's just some guy knowing something that other people

1437
01:48:56,044 --> 01:49:01,424
other people don't and leading back to the sailor thing because i want to i need to stress this point

1438
01:49:01,424 --> 01:49:08,764
who actually owns micro strategies bitcoin is not michael sailor it's not brian armstrong

1439
01:49:08,764 --> 01:49:17,684
it's some guy at coinbase or or or three out of five guys with coinbase or something and at any

1440
01:49:17,684 --> 01:49:25,164
point in time they can take all those bitcoins and fuck off and i am looking forward to that day so

1441
01:49:25,164 --> 01:49:30,064
much especially when it comes to government-owned bitcoins or all this institutional crap like

1442
01:49:30,064 --> 01:49:35,564
imagine the last scene of fight club where all the skyscrapers break down and they're the pixie

1443
01:49:35,564 --> 01:49:39,904
song comes on and it's just blown off his face and he finally gets the girl even though he's insane

1444
01:49:39,904 --> 01:49:45,544
that's what i'm looking forward to that's what i want bitcoin to do like

1445
01:49:45,544 --> 01:49:51,384
level the playing field for everyone a corporation it's just a bunch of people

1446
01:49:51,384 --> 01:49:57,804
it's not real a business it's just a bunch of people a business on a bitcoin standard can just

1447
01:49:57,804 --> 01:50:03,864
be a telegram chat it can be anything like and you you can do all your business without anyone

1448
01:50:03,864 --> 01:50:10,024
else being even able to extract, to expropriate value from it.

1449
01:50:10,124 --> 01:50:14,404
You can just do things like the joker, you know, you can just do things.

1450
01:50:14,824 --> 01:50:20,464
And it's so powerful when you admit that that is already the case and we're already living

1451
01:50:20,464 --> 01:50:21,104
in that world.

1452
01:50:21,824 --> 01:50:24,244
The future is already here, just not evenly dispersed.

1453
01:50:24,624 --> 01:50:25,504
Like, that's so true.

1454
01:50:25,984 --> 01:50:32,524
Like, that's one thing I want Bitcoiners to think about more.

1455
01:50:32,524 --> 01:50:34,344
it's just a fucking secret

1456
01:50:34,344 --> 01:50:36,244
it's just a number

1457
01:50:36,244 --> 01:50:38,324
you know a number

1458
01:50:38,324 --> 01:50:40,644
and you believe

1459
01:50:40,644 --> 01:50:42,704
it's improbable that anyone

1460
01:50:42,704 --> 01:50:44,444
else knows the number you know

1461
01:50:44,444 --> 01:50:46,624
and therefore you can act as if you

1462
01:50:46,624 --> 01:50:47,544
owned the number

1463
01:50:47,544 --> 01:50:50,744
I'm gonna

1464
01:50:50,744 --> 01:50:52,664
have to leave it there, I had a number of

1465
01:50:52,664 --> 01:50:53,644
questions but I

1466
01:50:53,644 --> 01:50:56,504
quite like leaving it with that vision

1467
01:50:56,504 --> 01:50:57,984
from the end of Fight Club

1468
01:50:57,984 --> 01:50:58,184
it's

1469
01:50:58,184 --> 01:51:02,944
and all the things

1470
01:51:02,944 --> 01:51:03,924
yeah right let's

1471
01:51:03,924 --> 01:51:04,804
let's leave it there

1472
01:51:04,804 --> 01:51:08,304
yeah that's a Cartman version

1473
01:51:08,304 --> 01:51:11,224
I love that

1474
01:51:11,224 --> 01:51:13,664
thanks mate it's been a pleasure again

1475
01:51:13,664 --> 01:51:14,484
thank you Timmy

1476
01:51:14,484 --> 01:51:16,784
enjoyed it again I feel

1477
01:51:16,784 --> 01:51:18,724
philosophized well and truly

1478
01:51:18,724 --> 01:51:19,504
right back at you

1479
01:51:19,504 --> 01:51:22,884
and yeah and see you at the next one

1480
01:51:22,884 --> 01:51:24,664
probably you'll be at all the conferences

1481
01:51:24,664 --> 01:51:25,964
I go to I would imagine

1482
01:51:25,964 --> 01:51:28,064
yeah

1483
01:51:28,064 --> 01:51:29,184
hopefully

1484
01:51:29,184 --> 01:51:30,224
maybe not all

1485
01:51:30,224 --> 01:51:30,464
but

1486
01:51:30,464 --> 01:51:31,984
trying to cut down

1487
01:51:31,984 --> 01:51:32,584
on conferences

1488
01:51:32,584 --> 01:51:33,864
but it's so hard

1489
01:51:33,864 --> 01:51:35,184
I love it too much

1490
01:51:35,184 --> 01:51:35,764
take it easy

1491
01:51:35,764 --> 01:51:36,564
thank you very much

1492
01:51:36,564 --> 01:51:36,924
thank you

1493
01:51:36,924 --> 01:51:37,644
cheers