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Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast

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of the Free Cities Foundation.

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Hello and welcome to this episode number 148 of the Free Cities podcast brought to you as always

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by our wonderful sponsors of the show Veritas Villages. Veritas Villages are off-grid energy

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self-sufficient luxury communities in Latin America designed specifically for freedom lovers

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just like you I'm gonna go ahead and assume Bitcoin is accepted at all Veritas Villages

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including for the purchase of property i think you already knew that anyway if you didn't

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more info here at ecovillages.life forward slash free cities everything is in the show notes

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and if you would like to dig a bit deeper patrick hibbert who's the creator of veritas villages

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will be speaking at this year's free cities conference in prague not too long now 31st of

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October till the 2nd of November. Tickets at freecitiesconference.com and everything in the

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show note as you already knew right today's show. Well, it's a dispatch from my recent trip to Serbia

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to attend Liberpolco, which is Liberland's anarchopolco collaborative festival slash

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conference i would call it in attendance well definitely people tending towards the more

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let's call it experimental conspiratorial you know the kind of freedom is within people

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some would call it the truther community certainly a section of the truther community was there

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a lot of people distrusting of government of institutions of the media etc i was speaking

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there about the free cities ecosystem from intentional communities at one end of the spectrum

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right over to full-blown self-sovereign places like Liberland and everything in between all the

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different ways people are building in the market of living together seemed to go down well and I

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got the impression that many people there were kind of new to these ideas as well which was great

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today's guest he was definitely my favorite person that i met whilst i was there we talked a lot over

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the duration of the trip he's a journalist broadcaster and global affairs analyst founder

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of the news organization 21st century wire and a co-anchor on the uk column news program in the uk

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during our conversations we talked a lot about fact checking and ai so i thought it'd be interesting

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to see what ChatGPT made of Patrick Hennigson.

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According to that source, he's a writer, filmmaker and global affairs analyst,

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best known as the founder of the alternative media site 21st Century Wire

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and host of Sunday Wire and the Patrick Hennigson Show.

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It goes on to say he presents himself as a challenger of mainstream narratives,

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focusing on geopolitics, propaganda and media manipulation,

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and has reported from conflict zones such as Syria and Iraq.

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Supporters view him as a critical voice against the establishment narratives and censorship,

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whilst critics, including fact-check groups, which I'll go into in a sec,

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accuse his platforms of promoting conspiracy theories, sensationalism,

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and unreliable or biased reporting.

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This dual reputation places him at the intersection of independent journalism and controversial alternative media.

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That's actually quite a good observation.

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That's where I put him as well.

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However, if you media bias fact check anything, you'll face criticism.

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so I asked ChatGPT to fact check media bias fact check MBFC which is the organization that

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criticizes what Patrick does and ChatGPT told me that they face criticism for allegedly favoring

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left-leaning sources often rating them as high credibility whilst labeling right-leaning sources

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as questionable or low credibility it goes on critics argue that mbfc's evaluation criteria

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reflect mainstream liberal progressive views potentially penalizing sources that diverge

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from these knobs blah blah blah blah which i thought i better check that out so i went to

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their site these are the fact checkers and i thought right i'll get to see what they rate a

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couple of news organizations that I think I know quite well I chose Fox News and CNN

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and lo and behold overall we rate Fox News right biased based on editorial positions that align

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with the right and questionable due to the promotion of propaganda conspiracy theories

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pseudoscience the use of poor sources and numerous false claims and failed fact checks

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okay so they've given fox news a questionable rating now what would they give cnn overall we

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rate cnn moderately left center biased based on editorial positions by tv hosts that consistently

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favor the left while straight news reporting falls just left of center through bias by omission

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we also rate them as mostly factual in reporting rather than high due to two failed checks in the

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last five years what's interesting is they kind of assumed it would be high and they actually said

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well look we had to call them mostly factual anyway there you have it guys fox news questionable

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all cnn mostly factual and i'll let you decide whether you think you should trust uh that

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particular fact checker the mbfc which is what chat gpt went to to check its facts when i asked

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it anyway my two sats about patrick i like him he's a very conscientious guy who i really enjoyed

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speaking to i'm definitely intending to go down and visit him another time at some point to follow

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up this conversation and i'd be very interested to hear listener feedback on the subjects we spoke

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about i'm guessing that there will be differences of opinion amongst you all there always are when

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i discuss geopolitics right i'm going to lean on fountain.fm's episode summary to sum up what we

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spoke about we covered a lot of ground it says the key topics were the uk column and alternative

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media mainstream media propaganda and control geopolitics ukraine and the new world order

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the role of the usa migration and destabilization of europe the state of democracy and individual

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freedom and the title of this episode the grand conspiracy in inverted commas that's my words by

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the way and power structures basically at the core we're discussing geopolitical landscapes

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and the nature of power and control in the modern world and i've always been interested

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in theories of a grand conspiracy they're very enticing as i'm sure a number of you will agree

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the kind of there are puppet masters at the top of the pyramid you know making things happen on a

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global scale patrick i think has an interesting and pretty balanced view of all this so i'm happy

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to hear your views in the comments if you disagree anyway right some thank yous to my active

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subscribers before we get on with this and please if you're listening to this and enjoy the content

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from this podcast please consider subscribing on fountain.fm it's just six bucks a month that's us

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dollars uh what's that a large latte in starbucks these days isn't it my dream of course would be

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to fully fund this show from subscribers although the reality will probably be somewhere in between

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a combination of the free cities foundation sponsors and me subsidizing it with my time

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which i'm currently doing at the moment of course if you would like to reach out to our audience on

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this show we have a great audience and a very loyal one please drop me a line on NOSTA or email I was going to call it snail mail podcast at free

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to discuss how we might work together in promoting what you do or what you sell.

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Right. Let's have some thanks, please.

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Matthias, Bullish Mike, CB, Christopher Albanese, Ant, Tim, not me, another Tim, Set in Stone,

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Silas Thornbrook, Chadrack. You are my OG subscribers. Many, many thanks. Right. It's

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time to get into this. This week, I would advise you to pop on your flak jacket, grab a notebook

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and pen. Yes, Patrick's a bit of a hack, according to me at least. And let's dive into the murky

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world of global geopolitics as you sit back, relax and enjoy my conversation with Patrick Hennickson.

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now i i better set the scene here and we've started by the way okay we we met in a we met

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a taxi and we we talked for about three hours right off the bat which is always a good thing

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because you kind of like you you normally get a lot done in that first three hours yeah right

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put the world to rights as much as best you can yeah right and we we kind of did but

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So what was kind of surprising to me was that I thought I was kind of in the alternative scene in the UK.

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And by that, I don't necessarily mean like, you know, I mean people thinking differently.

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People who, you know, what's the word for people who think outside the box?

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Yeah, open-minded alternative thinkers.

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There's a word.

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Unconventional.

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Heterodox.

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heterodox right yes i thought i was in the heterodox community and which i am

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but as it turns out there's a whole part of it i have no um connection to at all and i mean it's

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not even the kind of crazy conspiracy theory people at all i'm talking about um the part that

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you seem to frequent a little bit and and that is in the uk at least a publication or a media

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company called you the uk column and that was a real eye-opener for me because you i mean i haven't

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done a deep deep dive but speaking to you and looking at what they're doing etc etc you seem

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to be kind of in the market of um intelligently reporting on things that the mainstream media

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won't talk about is that a fair that's a pretty good assessment okay right obviously there's other

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assessments of you. I'm going to read one of them out, of course. Oh, definitely. You are a conspiracy

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theory on orientated online media outlet. This is hope, not hate. Yeah. You're probably far right

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if I get to it. Yeah. You had a considerable boost during the COVID-19 pandemic and remains

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a significant voice in the UK conspiracy theorist media. I mean, what is that UK conspiracy? This is

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hope, not hate. They're one of those things that basically class everything except themselves as

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far right or conspiracy theories basically yeah the standard fare that's pretty big but but but

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how did i end up missing uk column because you're it's a it's a yeah how did i miss that

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i think probably the the community that you're amongst and that you're you know following and

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some people it just you know it just passed they're not they're not seeing it for whatever

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reason. We don't fall into the Alex Jones end of the spectrum. So I would say the best way to

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describe UK Column is I've been working with them since 2012, first as a writer in their newspaper,

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and they used to have a print publication at a national circulation, much like the light

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newspaper. You've probably seen that around, but UK Column is more grounded, more into deep politics.

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But then they went full video in 2013, 2014, started going full video.

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And I would say Middle England, Middle England.

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So typical retired or professional military active duty ex-police officers, people in the civil servants, people who do the backbone of the country basically.

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You know, that's the audience.

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That's the interesting part, though, because I didn't know they were into –

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I thought they all had the BBC and sitting there and having new spoon-fed to them.

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So how did I get that wrong then?

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I mean, yeah, how did I get that wrong?

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I think we had a sizable audience before COVID, but I would say it 10xed during COVID

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because the real conspiracy during COVID was so insidious

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and the groupthink was being enforced at such an extreme level

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and there was so much government money that was spent

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to get the mainstream media basically to run on all the leads

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as well as the print media, all ran with the same leads

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and we found out later that was government money being pumped into

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that outpaced anything in advertising.

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And the government was paying above rack rate for center spreads, for front page inserts, all that.

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So they were really subsidizing the mainstream media.

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So the mainstream media is not going to go against the government.

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Just like if the pharmaceutical company was buying up all the ads right across Murdoch's press and the Mail and the Daily Express,

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which the Daily Express is basically a pharmaceutical advertising outlet for statins and whatever they're pushing on their front page.

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miracle drug for Alzheimer's, cure for dementia.

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But the government becomes the number one client.

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And I think enough people in Britain realized something was very, very wrong with this picture

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and instinctively knew that they were being had on a very, very deep and profound level

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and that the BBC was absolutely skull-plugging the population

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and there was gaslighting going on on a level that had never been seen before.

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in modern human history. I mean, it was really a major human event. Never before in the history of

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the human race has there been a global unified response to anything that penetrated so deeply

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into the personal lives of people, deeply into the person, you know, restriction of freedom on a level

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that you couldn't even comprehend. And it was ubiquitous across the globe. And so people were

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then looking for an outlet because a lot of people come up to us years later and say,

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I was going insane.

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I was going crazy.

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And they said, and you guys were, you kept the sane because we came out kind of fighting

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against the narrative from the beginning.

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And we knew what we were looking at because we had already built up to that point years

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before.

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So every single scandal or crisis that we covered in the previous years was practice.

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So you're training for the next battle.

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And by the time we got to COVID, we were already ready to go.

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And so we pulled out, you know, as much as – and it took a lot out of people.

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It took a lot out of me personally.

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A lot of us were isolated from our families because airspace was closed.

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We couldn't travel because we didn't have vaccine cards and things like that.

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And so – and we're not – you're not eating particularly well as well.

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So, you know, your health is going downhill.

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I mean I know you didn't have to deal with all much of as much of that because you had managed to escape the

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The the the colony is the prison isn't work

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Well, it wasn't that difficult actually I think that the what I noticed about that whole period or one of my big sort of takeaways

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Apart from the fact like you it was I was almost in awe watching this thing unfold because it was so monumental

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was that there was a lot of smoke and mirrors and

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and that was what was stopping most people doing things because the smoke and mirrors said you

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can't travel and you could I mean we booked flights to Spain and we went to Spain then we

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booked flights to Mexico and we went there and it was actually very cheap to do it at that time

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and in fact I've told this story before but I was driving one Christmas when when I was supposedly

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shouldn't be to go and collect someone I won't give too much away but I was going to collect

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someone who I thought was having a bad time that really needed to be around people let's say

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and I don't know whether you know the bridge over the um the Bristol Channel over the Severn yeah

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yeah when you come you know back then um obviously there was no cars on the roads it was late at

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night but they had all these um um flashing signs up that they normally put like roadworks or whatever but it like LED panels that they can write things on And they were all like go back and border crossing blah blah blah

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And I remember driving down there.

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It was a bit like that film, was it 28 Days Later?

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I was driving down the middle of this sort of like six lane bridge

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thinking, is there going to be like barbed wire

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at the border between Wales and England or something?

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You know, obviously I got there.

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There was nothing.

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I carried on, I carried on, I carried on.

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I got all the way to where I was going, which was right down the end of the M4.

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Yeah.

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And so, so, and it was literally smoke and mirrors.

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Like the way that I was being controlled was all in my mind, all in my mind.

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And that I was, I've learned that lesson.

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That's the kind of like one of the first things I look for now, actually, when, when anything

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big happens, it's like, what's actually true?

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What actually am I being said?

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And how do I act?

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accordingly, et cetera.

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I read the mainstream media a lot, and people say,

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why do you waste time?

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Why do you quote the BBC?

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Because they're lying to us.

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Everything they say is a lie.

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You hear this all the time.

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But part of our job in the so-called independent or alternative media,

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I have to read the mainstream media because I need to know what the state

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or the government or the establishment want me to think

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and want the public to think because they're sending those signals out

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all the time.

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how you need to think about what has just happened,

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that major event that you just mentioned,

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whatever it is,

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that you're always going to be,

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as a member of the public,

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as George Orwell tried to teach us

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after all his years as a propagandist

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with the BBC during the war,

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he was trying to warn us about this system,

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this machine that's being constructed

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for the purposes of manipulating public perception.

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And so, yeah,

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so the first thing you would do

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when you look at the BBC is,

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how do they want me to think? Which side do they want me to be on? Do they want me to fear,

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to hate, to be reviled, to be disgusted, to be in a fit of righteous indignation over whatever it is?

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And so by doing that, we can gauge the propaganda level. And then we know how serious of a propaganda

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campaign is. And of course, there was no question with the so-called pandemic that this was all

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all you know they they didn't they pulled out all the stops for this it was a full spectrum

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campaign and uh maximum maximum public buy-in maximum uh you know compliance so you know what

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what i was going to say as well to also to set the scene because the fact that i've never heard

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of uk column made me think that it's probably just a little website or something and you know

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But it's not either.

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It's got a lot of people that watch it and subscribe to it and watch broadcasts.

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You have a TV studio and everything.

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And you're like the geopolitics guy, right?

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Yeah, I'm international politics.

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Right.

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But also, you're like what?

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I mean, from talking to you over the last few days, you're what I'd call a hack.

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A proper travels around, goes to wars, write with a notepad.

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You're that guy?

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I've done a bit of that, yeah.

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I've done a bit of that.

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But most of what I do now is kind of in front of a camera.

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But any opportunity I have to go, it's worth its weight in gold for the rest of your life because you can draw off your personal experiences and it helps to color your analysis and it anchors it in some reality.

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So you at least have some – you can marry a real situation with what your theoretical and analytical assessment is and I just don't want to be that desktop journalist my whole life.

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And so if I have a chance, I'll go. And I'm very used to inserting myself into countries or situations. And I know who to work with and local cameramen and local guide, translators, armed guards in some cases. And working with other journalists. You know, we all help each other out.

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You probably know this in your you know this community everyone's always helping each other

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It's the same in media you rely on favors from all sorts of journalists

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People who work for you know the the local tv station in a country like let's say I would go to malaysia

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So immediately you want to hook up with the local malaysian tv station see if there's anybody that's interested in talking to you

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Then they you know help you with

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Whatever you're looking for and in some cases will roll out the red carpet because you're coming from

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United States or Britain or Europe or something. And yeah.

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My history with journalism is very much mainstream journalism, 100%. But I do understand that

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camaraderie for sure. And this is where I think sometimes I look, I feel a little bit unsure about

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alternative media outlets. And rightly or wrongly, that's because I came from very bona fide

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mainstream media outlets and and there is there's a way of doing things now i'm not i'm not sitting

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here saying they did it correctly but there was a certain amount of gravitas to being a journalist

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and what you sometimes find in the alternative space is people who just report on things and

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actually i find that a lot especially in almost in these kind of communities people just say

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kind of blanket statements and when you drill down on them you don't get anything you don't you just

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don't get anything at all there's nothing it's derivative it's derivative of something someone

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else said exactly and that person's talking about someone else's and so you don't it's virtual virtual

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virtual yeah but that's what i found interesting about talking to you is you come you seem to come

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from that old school hack version of journalism well i tried because i always loved all my favorite

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journalists from the independent Robert Fisk Middle East correspondent yeah these

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are the people that I always looked up to over the years 90s in the in the

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2000s so he got caught he got caught reporting a little bit not correctly in

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the Middle East you know well yes and no but he's also you know what very

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knowledge he's also won awards so I mean no no no one's perfect about all the

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reporting but the point is and he's not Patrick Coburn there's another one that's

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That's ex-independent.

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I don't know.

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No, I didn't work with him.

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But I said, I have to go where they are, basically.

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And so that brought me to Lebanon.

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And then that made me fluent in the Arabic world, enough to go to Syria and Iraq and

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other countries with confidence and a knowledge of the culture, a knowledge of how to behave,

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how to speak, how to engage with people, the attitude to have that you're not going to

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annoy everybody kind of thing because I've traveled in press pools with mainstream BBC

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AP and all the big some of the big titles and it's shocking how you know some people like

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you know they're very let's say entitled is a good word and the things they demand of local

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people and also people with a lot of resources but and also creating propaganda I've witnessed

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it firsthand. I've reported two different versions. We're all there. And I'm reading

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their version and it's completely... And you know that at that point there was more going on than

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meets the eye. Obviously, you're in there with governments and you think you're with the

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mainstream press, but you're also with intelligence agencies sometimes, at least tangentially. And

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you're also with somebody who's really pushing a British or a NATO or a French or a US government

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line and that's their job they have to deliver that point that's why they were sent in the first

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place and actually i think what i've what because i you know i i do watch the news not as deeply as

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you obviously but what you notice now is when ap or reuters put something out it goes everywhere

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and that's that's much that's much worse than it was when i was a journalist when i was a

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Journalists, there were 10 newspapers there sometimes and five agencies.

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Now, I know, for example, when I was at the Independent,

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we had a, I was a, well, I got to become the chief photographer

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of the Sunday paper in the end.

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And we had, at the highest point, we had almost sort of six to 10

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jobbing photographers per day working.

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And that's the Independent.

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They were skinned.

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They had a small, you know, like, and now obviously they have none.

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they have no star photographers no contract photographers and most of their news when you

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look at it is coming off the wires all of it is right almost all of it yeah right so the wires

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are now the bona fide news sources people can quote them directly and just say right this is it

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and then as a result when the narrative goes out now boom it seems to go out even harder than than

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before you know absolutely there's no there's no plurality within the mainstream media coverage

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But having said that I have respect for some Reuters reporters who do excellent excellent work on a certain range of subjects that I will go to them and their words are just as good as gold and it usually stacks up

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with the research. Having said that, on anything that's ultra sensitive, different story, there's

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definitely a perception, a line of perception, an agreed line of perception. So why I hope not hate

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calling you, not that we trust them at all, but why are they calling you a conspiracy theory

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channel? Because organizations like that, like Center for Countering Digital Hate, NGOs like

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Hope Not Hate, and they feel like it is their job, and in fact they do play a role for the establishment,

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to bracket any voices and label them as extremist. Anything outside of the orthodoxy or what I call,

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this is the best term I've ever heard, and it's from somebody who worked in corporate marketing

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at the highest levels of the UK consumer corporate marketing.

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He said it's about consensus reality.

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They're selling consensus reality.

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And then the back end of that would be Noam Chomsky's famous book

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called Manufacturing Consent.

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Manufacturing Consent.

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But consensus reality is what they're after.

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And the public, what they call the plebs, the general public,

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the sheeple as the truth community call it,

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are what we call CR merchants.

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consensus reality merchants and so if you're not in in the consensus reality and that's kind of

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where your mainstream guardian readers are that's where your times readers are and anything outside

329
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of that is extremism conspiracy theories uh you know whatever i mean think of the epithet

330
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they have a whole sort of system for um you know smearing and just trying to discredit anybody

331
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and what we're doing is really challenging that uh that you know the the consensus reality because

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uh that this is the job of the media this is why they issue denotis you know the denotis is right

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i don't actually what was that denotis is the government issues a series of denotis these are

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things that all the papers cannot talk about and you're obligated to call up and get the latest

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denotis from the organization that issues those these are things that might violate not

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or they're too sensitive for national security reasons

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or stories that are breaking,

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but no British media can report on them.

339
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Do you follow those?

340
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,220
No, we don't engage with the denotices.

341
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Does that get you into trouble then?

342
00:30:38,660 --> 00:30:41,740
In some cases, yeah, it absolutely does.

343
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I think when you're below a certain level of audience and readership,

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it's not as much of a concern.

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But if you are rising above that,

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I'll give you an example.

347
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is in America is Candace Owens.

348
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Candace Owens is swimming in international politics now.

349
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Absolutely, yes.

350
00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:04,400
And so if she was in Britain, and she is part British,

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and she's married to a British gentleman,

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and has family, and her kids are half British,

353
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but she's with France, so sensitive with the Trump administration

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and Macron and Trump's relationship, it became a problem,

355
00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:24,160
is her reporting on Macron's personal life and that story.

356
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And so if that was in Britain, there would be a denotis.

357
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If this was about, let's say, the British prime minister,

358
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there would definitely be a denotis issued across the mainstream media.

359
00:31:32,980 --> 00:31:36,260
You will not give any more fuel to this story.

360
00:31:36,780 --> 00:31:37,760
It's too sensitive.

361
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,080
It's got a national security letter on it.

362
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:46,060
What's the national security about Macron's wife's testicles?

363
00:31:46,060 --> 00:31:48,960
The stability of the French state.

364
00:31:49,740 --> 00:31:51,780
It's a phenomenal story.

365
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:52,360
I know.

366
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,460
So do you know much about that story?

367
00:31:54,580 --> 00:31:54,700
Have you?

368
00:31:54,940 --> 00:31:56,280
I absolutely followed it.

369
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:56,820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

370
00:31:56,820 --> 00:31:57,800
And so is it true?

371
00:31:58,220 --> 00:32:00,360
Well, let's just put it this way.

372
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Candice is really working off of work that's already been done by French independent researchers and journalists.

373
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and I've also crossed references with my French media cohort,

374
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,860
people that I follow and know and we talk about issues that deal with France or NATO

375
00:32:16,860 --> 00:32:21,260
and they said absolutely this is credible research and it's been around for a while

376
00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:25,020
and it has been absolutely blackballed in the French mainstream press

377
00:32:25,020 --> 00:32:30,400
and that a lot of people are afraid to report on it, afraid to report on it.

378
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:37,100
So I think she's into a story that there's a lot there exactly how deep it goes

379
00:32:37,100 --> 00:32:40,600
and if it's extreme as she is saying it is,

380
00:32:41,220 --> 00:32:45,340
obviously it has profound implications

381
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because it's really insane.

382
00:32:48,460 --> 00:32:50,200
It's really insane that someone would be allowed

383
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to rise up to the level of a head of state

384
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of a nuclear armed country

385
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in the UN Security Council level

386
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means that they're heavily compromised, obviously.

387
00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:01,320
But if you look at it, the Jeffrey Epstein story,

388
00:33:01,460 --> 00:33:02,440
half of it is French.

389
00:33:03,540 --> 00:33:05,480
Half of the Jean-Luc Renel side,

390
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:14,560
the the gillian maxwell was was was decamped in paris there's so much there so it's not just a

391
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:20,840
u.s story it's a french and u.s and british and british story it's interesting because i i when i

392
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:26,400
heard about it i mean for those for the uninitiated the story is basically that macron's wife is

393
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:32,320
actually a man or formerly a man or her father or whatever oh god i mean his father but he's married

394
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:41,020
What's undeniable is that she, his wife, or he, she did actually meet him when he was quite young.

395
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:41,680
Quite young.

396
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,220
And wasn't she his teacher?

397
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,520
The claim is that when he was 15.

398
00:33:46,660 --> 00:33:48,200
I don't think it's even a claim, though, is it?

399
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,240
I think what Candace is referring to is the claim is 15 or 16.

400
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,660
In actuality, it was younger, 14, maybe even 13.

401
00:33:58,660 --> 00:33:59,100
Who knows?

402
00:33:59,100 --> 00:34:05,780
But the point is, it might even be worse than what is the conspiracy.

403
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:18,760
And another huge red flag on that story for me was because I subscribed to Candace Owens' podcast to find out what she's saying about it.

404
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,700
And obviously, I trust that she's not lying about this.

405
00:34:21,700 --> 00:34:28,600
but she said that trump or either trump or trump's team may even have been trump i think himself

406
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:34,020
called her directly and told her to stand down back off yeah yeah it's true it's true right it's

407
00:34:34,020 --> 00:34:41,020
true yeah yeah i mean that in itself is insane i mean we're talking about a story so outlandish

408
00:34:41,020 --> 00:34:46,720
this is you know i think we discussed this in the car it's like when when when i remember when

409
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:50,860
Alex Jones was getting deplatformed. I was thinking to myself, why are they bothering

410
00:34:50,860 --> 00:34:57,700
to deplatform Alex Jones? Because when you listen to him, if you're your average BBC

411
00:34:57,700 --> 00:35:02,100
watching person, you look at Alex Jones and go, oh my God, that guy is just talking a load

412
00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:08,920
of nonsense. But the fact that they went so hard on him to deplatform him makes you wonder,

413
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:14,920
shit, there must be a reason for this. Why would they act so seriously? And the same goes

414
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,560
for this thing with Macron.

415
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,240
Why bother trying to snub this so hard?

416
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,180
I would have thought it would be so easy.

417
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:22,920
Most people, when they hear that story,

418
00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:25,440
will go, huh, are you having a laugh?

419
00:35:25,740 --> 00:35:27,040
Of course he's not.

420
00:35:27,140 --> 00:35:29,520
Well, the implication, if you follow that line,

421
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,180
would be that there's the establishment

422
00:35:32,180 --> 00:35:33,880
or the powers that be or whatever

423
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,680
are trying to cover something up by going in so hard.

424
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,180
I mean, they did send a French lawyer to sue Candace,

425
00:35:41,380 --> 00:35:43,340
and then Candace counterpunched back

426
00:35:43,340 --> 00:35:47,740
and expose the lawyers being basically defending pedos and things like that,

427
00:35:47,820 --> 00:35:53,000
as the establishment's go-to defense guy to do all the dirty jobs for the elite.

428
00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:54,800
And then the case was dropped.

429
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,920
For Alex, it was the Sandy Hook story,

430
00:35:58,420 --> 00:36:01,960
and the implication being that there was a cover-up there,

431
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,780
and Alex was not the first, nor was he the only one,

432
00:36:05,780 --> 00:36:09,060
who had challenged that story publicly at the time,

433
00:36:09,180 --> 00:36:11,020
but he obviously was the biggest.

434
00:36:11,020 --> 00:36:17,440
so the establishment wanted to make an example out of him and not just go after him but but to

435
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:25,300
destroy his entire media footprint and and uh and he's survived and he's still brought he's still

436
00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:31,120
in the air which is an incredible thing in itself that speaks to his resilience as a uh a force of

437
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:38,260
nature in in media alex is like you know amazing in that respect absolutely you know you've got to

438
00:36:38,260 --> 00:36:43,600
at least respect him for that for sure what i'm surprised at and this is i obviously underestimate

439
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:50,100
the foresight of the powers that be i often sometimes think they're a bit incompetent

440
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:55,500
but i would never have touched alex jones if i was them because i think what's the point

441
00:36:55,500 --> 00:37:00,500
you're just drawing attention to it and then but of it but but i think there's something in it i

442
00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:04,260
I think he's causing problems.

443
00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:07,120
Candace Owens is actually causing problems.

444
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,160
And, or someone like Tommy Robinson in the UK,

445
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:12,560
who wants the same kind of thing.

446
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,720
Like a couple of years ago, I'd have said,

447
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:16,920
I don't know why you're focusing so much on Tommy Robinson.

448
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:21,120
He's a minority interest.

449
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,200
But now, because of all that interest,

450
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,420
he's got Elon Musk tweeting him,

451
00:37:27,420 --> 00:37:29,940
or at one point,

452
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,640
I think it's 1.2 million followers on Twitter.

453
00:37:33,020 --> 00:37:39,580
Yeah, being an opposition figure is obviously going to turbocharge your platform, as it were.

454
00:37:39,580 --> 00:37:45,800
For Alex, the establishment was going after Donald Trump at the time,

455
00:37:45,860 --> 00:37:52,340
like from 2015 until, I would say, right up until the last election cycle was done in 2024.

456
00:37:52,340 --> 00:38:02,080
and Alex is one of I think maybe five or six media figures who helped to propel Trump into office in 2016

457
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,720
and by a slim margin.

458
00:38:04,860 --> 00:38:11,280
So you think all of those big media moguls like Alex Jones, Michael Savage, the radio host, these people,

459
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:16,360
by backing Trump they gave the edge to Donald Trump in the polls over Hillary Clinton

460
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:22,020
and so they're thinking that makes them consequential in the political economy.

461
00:38:22,340 --> 00:38:29,660
Not just, you know, loudmouth blowhards, but they actually are pushing results in the ballot box.

462
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,940
And then you get that becomes a real threat.

463
00:38:32,940 --> 00:38:35,640
Well, and I think we saw that in the last election.

464
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,440
I mean, Rogan is a friend of Alex Jones, a very old friend.

465
00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:48,140
Rogan was a huge part of Trump's image sort of being raised this time around.

466
00:38:48,940 --> 00:38:49,940
I think you're right.

467
00:38:49,940 --> 00:38:56,380
I think this is what differentiates MPs now.

468
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,960
You've got the ones that can sit on a podcast and talk

469
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:00,880
and the ones that can't.

470
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,540
And that's basically the two types of people we get.

471
00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:06,760
Keir Starmer can't sit on a podcast in the UK.

472
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:07,620
He can't do that.

473
00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:09,440
He's ideologically driven.

474
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,740
So he has to remember the whole ideology

475
00:39:11,740 --> 00:39:12,680
and then spit it out.

476
00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:15,500
Someone like Rupert, what's Rupert?

477
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:16,080
Rupert Lowe.

478
00:39:16,260 --> 00:39:17,900
Rupert Lowe, different.

479
00:39:17,900 --> 00:39:18,900
He can sit.

480
00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:21,300
He's got some understanding, some ideas.

481
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,720
So you can ask him any question, and he'll be able to sort of like talk about that thing.

482
00:39:26,020 --> 00:39:26,740
Trump's the same.

483
00:39:27,220 --> 00:39:31,340
So is Trump's VC, vice, you know.

484
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:32,200
J.D. Vance.

485
00:39:32,540 --> 00:39:32,820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

486
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:40,620
Yeah, they're definitely more, they've pivoted more into the new media format and the long-form, the long-form interviews.

487
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:41,640
So they're not afraid.

488
00:39:41,780 --> 00:39:47,100
I mean, Trump's not afraid to do impromptu Q&A for three, I've seen him do two hours in the White House.

489
00:39:47,100 --> 00:39:55,320
The large room where he ended up doing his press conferences, not that little closet that they have used for years, but the large room.

490
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,040
So he's not afraid to do that.

491
00:39:57,180 --> 00:39:58,760
I mean, that served Trump very well.

492
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:11,280
Now he's getting more cagey, I think, because the policies are – he's having a lot more trouble now, I think, sustaining the hype.

493
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:19,980
The wave of hype has now calmed down after inauguration, and he's faced with all sorts of dilemmas on the economic front, foreign policy front.

494
00:40:20,580 --> 00:40:24,760
And he has inherited a lot of disasters from the previous administration.

495
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:33,420
But then he's also declared economic warfare on like half the planet with tariffs and sanctions and things like that, which is not doing him any favors.

496
00:40:33,420 --> 00:40:39,840
and he's looking for wins that he can parlay into election results at home in the upcoming midterms

497
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,180
because, of course, if the Republicans can't keep the House in the midterms,

498
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:49,700
then the MAGA agenda is going to stall and you're going to get impeachments again,

499
00:40:50,260 --> 00:40:52,040
like repeat of the last time.

500
00:40:52,260 --> 00:40:57,540
So, I mean, they're trying to stave off that sort of result.

501
00:40:57,660 --> 00:40:58,800
So we'll see what happens.

502
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,940
But, yeah, it's a very funny time right now.

503
00:41:01,940 --> 00:41:06,120
Something you mentioned a little while ago is the truth community.

504
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,980
I mean, I know what it is.

505
00:41:10,020 --> 00:41:10,900
I don't know much about it.

506
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,320
I don't spend much time in it.

507
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:19,960
It seems to me my surface level understanding of the truth community is there's a lot of bullshit in there as well.

508
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:20,800
Is that fair to say?

509
00:41:21,060 --> 00:41:21,600
Yeah, yeah.

510
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,280
I think more than ever, more than ever.

511
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:37,500
There's more. It's ironic because with all due respect to everybody and their opinions and the kaleidoscope of opinions and beliefs, there are a lot of people in the alternative community will say we've been lied to about everything.

512
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:47,980
And the mainstream media is all lies and this and that. And and I and I say, look, it's not all like I cite mainstream media sources for certain things.

513
00:41:47,980 --> 00:41:54,980
I mean, Joe Rogan's not sending people to report on Supreme Court cases and do the diligent work of court reporting.

514
00:41:55,180 --> 00:42:01,860
And so Joe Rogan and, you know, Lex Friedman and what they're not the replacement for the mainstream.

515
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:08,380
They can't do what Reuters do, even if we don't like necessarily what everything the mainstream is doing.

516
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,400
They do perform a public service on a lot of levels.

517
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:18,600
They just happen to be really poor on anything related to foreign policy and get up to that level of manipulation.

518
00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:31,140
When you have intelligence services involved and you have billions and trillions of dollars of energy and continental drifts geopolitically, then it's obviously a different game.

519
00:42:31,220 --> 00:42:34,160
It's way above our pay grade, all of us.

520
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:42,880
But the point is the alternative media, the independent media, is also a big source of lies and disinformation.

521
00:42:43,180 --> 00:42:48,980
They are flooding the zone with equally amount of boulder dash, basically.

522
00:42:49,580 --> 00:42:52,420
And I think a lot of people are confused as a result.

523
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,620
And a lot of people are almost paralytic and despondent.

524
00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:58,100
And that brings us back to our original point.

525
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,320
Why do people watch the UK column?

526
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:07,520
because it's that halfway house where they can go and get some grounding on a lot of issues

527
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,140
and get at least some stability on the conversation.

528
00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:17,140
We're not with the mainstream, obviously, but then we're not too far on the fringe

529
00:43:17,140 --> 00:43:23,080
and we're doing it in a news-type format where it's comfortable for people to sit

530
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,080
and then they can think and then we'll present facts

531
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,960
and we'll present all of the links to everything that we show on the screen

532
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:36,540
after the program. So if you have any questions, so nothing is unsourced. Nothing is unsourced

533
00:43:36,540 --> 00:43:41,220
on our program. So I think a lot of people appreciate that and Middle England and

534
00:43:41,220 --> 00:43:46,800
professionals appreciate that because they want to bring people to watch. So they want to be

535
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,260
confident that they're bringing someone over to something that's not a fly-by-night operation

536
00:43:51,260 --> 00:43:56,400
that's not half-baked. And so yes, there's real journalism happening there. There is a political

537
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:04,140
slant and ideological slant on certain issues um i would say very much center right on a lot of

538
00:44:04,140 --> 00:44:10,620
issues but then again uh very liberal on others so but overall i would think pretty centrist

539
00:44:10,620 --> 00:44:16,940
generally in the traditional sense you know what centrist was 20 30 years ago that's kind of like

540
00:44:16,940 --> 00:44:23,700
where we are um maybe not by centrist 2025 mainstream standards that's different i know

541
00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:28,580
what you mean though about the everything's wrong brigade and i do find myself falling into that

542
00:44:28,580 --> 00:44:36,060
because these days you could tell me i mean you could you could you could point out anything to me

543
00:44:36,060 --> 00:44:42,200
as ludicrous as you like that went against the mainstream narrative narrative and i would

544
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:47,920
entertain it you know i would like five ten years ago if you said to me the earth was flat i'd just

545
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:53,440
laugh at you and now if you said look the earth's flat i would say right show me the evidence

546
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:58,820
you know I'm actually doing that yeah I'm not convinced you're engaged you're engaged in the

547
00:44:58,820 --> 00:45:03,820
in the debate in the dialogue yeah but I want to I mean I would I do want to engage in the but I

548
00:45:03,820 --> 00:45:08,800
think that's the way that certainly in talk shows like this that's how you should if you came on

549
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:14,260
and said the world's flat I'm all ears I'd say well convince me then I wouldn't say actually right

550
00:45:14,260 --> 00:45:20,180
but just just be clear on the record I wouldn't say that so just to be clear but um I'm one of

551
00:45:20,180 --> 00:45:27,240
those guys i'm one of those heliocentric uh uh globe earth globe earthers i'm an extremist um

552
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:35,480
so but but again and i have to caveat this some of my best best friends really um some of them

553
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:41,400
are you know what you might call flat earthers and you know we just don't talk about it you know

554
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:47,460
it's a strange but we agree on a whole bunch of other stuff what's going on in my brain right

555
00:45:47,460 --> 00:45:54,940
that I, that something so ludicrous, I mean, a lot of ludicrous things have, have some somehow

556
00:45:54,940 --> 00:46:01,060
proven to be true of late. And that is the, I think the flat earth, the big daddy out of all

557
00:46:01,060 --> 00:46:05,860
of them. It really is. It's ridiculous when you think about it because, but, but I'm, I'm ready

558
00:46:05,860 --> 00:46:10,940
to hear like I'm, when I listen to, it's almost like I want it to be true. When I look at the,

559
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:16,180
when I look at the data, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to, to steel man it because if it was true,

560
00:46:16,180 --> 00:46:17,060
That would be amazing.

561
00:46:17,380 --> 00:46:33,020
Well, the reason I think it's been so successful and grown as a kind of point of interest is because it's hard to steel man some of the arguments or the sort of the opposition arguments to some of the way that they're presenting their arguments.

562
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:39,700
But it's really a case of how it's being presented and how the discussion is being framed and curated.

563
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:59,220
Obviously I could come with equally steel approach from the other side and it will be very hard for them to debunk So instead of debunking what I showing they just come up with their own and say yes but you have you need to refute this so there no real scientific

564
00:46:59,220 --> 00:47:07,840
debate going on having said that you and I might think it's it's it's implausible it's ridiculous

565
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:15,240
but but other people don't and so what I'm interested in is why they don't how how convincing

566
00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:19,880
is the argument what what are the and i'm very interested to see what the presentation is to a

567
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:26,260
point i can't i can't spend that much time on it because if it takes up too much bandwidth or you

568
00:47:26,260 --> 00:47:31,260
know engaging in that argument it's taking time away from things that like let's say clear and

569
00:47:31,260 --> 00:47:36,000
present dangers to society and our country and the world which are you know the threat of

570
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:42,640
thermonuclear war uh of world war three breaking out in the middle east or in ukraine um and you

571
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,780
know are we going to be dragged into that as a society like we were during covid or like we were

572
00:47:46,780 --> 00:47:52,640
during uh the war on terror in 9-11 or the iraq war that's that's where i'm putting all of my

573
00:47:52,640 --> 00:48:02,280
priority my time and my energy and my my worry for humankind is there and so uh and not on you know

574
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:07,040
what type of world we're living in because i think the bottom line is this i always say to them look

575
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:12,980
if it was decided or you could prove tomorrow that you're right and that, you know, it's a giant

576
00:48:12,980 --> 00:48:19,560
pizza crust, how is that going to change your life in a material way, your day-to-day life

577
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:26,320
tomorrow? And the answer is not very much. You know, you still have to pay your council taxes.

578
00:48:26,820 --> 00:48:33,420
The bailiffs are still going to come and demand your whatever rent and your electric and you still

579
00:48:33,420 --> 00:48:39,320
able to pay the phone bill and do your chores and you know look after your kids and all that stuff

580
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:47,580
so it doesn't change anything um so i mean anyway it's uh it does take up a bigger part of the

581
00:48:47,580 --> 00:48:52,900
bandwidth of a lot of the content though and i don't know what to think about that let's not

582
00:48:52,900 --> 00:48:57,220
give it too much bandwidth and let's give something bandwidth which i was interested to talk to you

583
00:48:57,220 --> 00:49:04,900
about this when we first met, I gave you my very simplified version of the Ukraine situation,

584
00:49:04,900 --> 00:49:14,240
which was something along the lines of NATO are edging a little bit too close to Russia.

585
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:21,760
So Russia had to show some kind of like tour de force and it ended up in this scenario

586
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,420
and which was my best guess at what was going on.

587
00:49:25,420 --> 00:49:27,480
And I think that's even a conspiracy.

588
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,760
But you went a lot deeper and said a lot of other things.

589
00:49:30,940 --> 00:49:32,920
Would you mind summing it up in a little bit?

590
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:33,860
I found it very interesting.

591
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:35,420
Well, what you just said is true.

592
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:36,680
It is true.

593
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,200
That's a major factor.

594
00:49:38,820 --> 00:49:45,560
That's two major powers colliding, being NATO and the Russian Federation,

595
00:49:46,020 --> 00:49:48,380
two major world powers, two nuclear powers.

596
00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:52,720
NATO being a confab, obviously, an alliance, a, quote,

597
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,300
defensive alliance that's expanding at a rapid rate.

598
00:49:55,420 --> 00:49:58,420
surrounding its main adversary, Russia.

599
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,720
So not very defensive, I would say, not from a Russian perspective.

600
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:07,360
And certainly breaking a lot of the promises and agreements of previous U.S. and European leaders

601
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,340
over the years from the collapse of the Soviet Union until today.

602
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:16,180
Certainly this isn't what those diplomats and previous leaders had signed up to.

603
00:50:16,820 --> 00:50:19,680
They would be horrified by what's happening today,

604
00:50:20,180 --> 00:50:23,940
including some of the biggest hawks in the U.S. foreign policy establishment

605
00:50:23,940 --> 00:50:29,880
like Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski, they would be horrified. They would be calling for

606
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:34,520
restraint. In fact, we wouldn't even have got this far. But here we are. We're there today.

607
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:40,220
But the NATO expansion isn't the main reason why Russia intervened and, you know,

608
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:48,860
quote, invaded Ukraine in February 25th, 2022. That's not the material mechanical thing,

609
00:50:48,860 --> 00:50:55,580
that the mechanism, if you will, why Russia invaded was invoking something that should be

610
00:50:55,580 --> 00:51:00,300
familiar to people in the West, which is the, quote, responsibility to protect. There was a

611
00:51:00,300 --> 00:51:06,520
civil war going on in Donbass between Ukraine and the Ukrainian. It's important we remember that

612
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:13,460
the Donbass, Donetsk, Lugansk, the Eastern Ukrainian regions were part of Ukraine. And then

613
00:51:13,460 --> 00:51:22,100
And they were then kind of declared persona non grata by the new coup government in Kiev after the Maidan coup, which was backed by the United States.

614
00:51:22,260 --> 00:51:24,180
This is all very well recorded.

615
00:51:25,860 --> 00:51:27,920
It's part of the historical record.

616
00:51:28,940 --> 00:51:32,220
And so then they forced the change of government.

617
00:51:32,420 --> 00:51:34,620
And then the U.S. handpicked the caretaker government.

618
00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:37,620
They put in their first president, President Poroshenko.

619
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:41,780
They had an election, but it was an unconstitutional government after the coup.

620
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:43,420
And then a civil war began.

621
00:51:43,460 --> 00:51:53,540
The Ukraine government, with the backing of the U.S. and NATO, basically raised their army to attack their own citizens in the east, the Russian-speaking regions.

622
00:51:53,740 --> 00:51:56,840
And they declared Russian language illegal in some cases.

623
00:51:58,580 --> 00:52:01,920
So that's a major affront to people living in that country.

624
00:52:02,260 --> 00:52:03,280
So it's a civil war.

625
00:52:03,380 --> 00:52:04,580
What happens in civil wars?

626
00:52:04,980 --> 00:52:06,400
Well, countries split up.

627
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:10,080
You get autonomous regions, and that's exactly what happened.

628
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,280
The other thing that happens with civil wars is you get failed states.

629
00:52:13,460 --> 00:52:18,100
throughout history and this is no different but how it's being framed in the west is

630
00:52:18,100 --> 00:52:23,540
Vladimir Putin woke up on the wrong side of the bed and decided to you know rekindle the glory of

631
00:52:23,540 --> 00:52:29,220
the former Soviet empire and that's that's as far as the analysis goes for any western politician or

632
00:52:29,220 --> 00:52:35,220
mainstream media they're all on basically what uh what was agreed in when Theresa May was prime

633
00:52:35,220 --> 00:52:41,380
minister uh in the rapid response mechanism no people don't know about this there that was a

634
00:52:41,380 --> 00:52:46,900
directive passed in the latter years of Theresa May's premiership that said on

635
00:52:46,900 --> 00:52:51,640
any major national security issues that all G7 and NATO countries will be on

636
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:55,240
message on media they thought it was that important the narratives have to be

637
00:52:55,240 --> 00:53:00,460
the same and that's why you see the unanimity in the press as well so for

638
00:53:00,460 --> 00:53:08,380
Ukraine this is absolutely in play and so so Russia basically didn't intervene

639
00:53:08,380 --> 00:53:15,120
in eight years. Why? Because there was a UN Security Council Resolution 2202, which was passed

640
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:20,480
unanimously at the UN level. That never happens, does it, these days? But it was. And that was to

641
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:25,000
implement what was called the Minxed Peace Accords, the Minxed 1 and 2 peace process.

642
00:53:25,700 --> 00:53:29,420
And so everybody agreed, we're going to do this because we want to stop the killing.

643
00:53:29,780 --> 00:53:37,280
14,000 people were killed in the Donbass during that time. And Russia could not intervene legally,

644
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:44,700
though, because this was still part of Ukraine. So what happened? Eventually, Minsk died because

645
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:50,160
France and Germany, and they both leaders admitted later in interviews that they dragged their heels

646
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:56,160
to buy time to arm the Ukraine to NATO standard. So they knew the war was coming. They just needed

647
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:01,380
to do, the West needed to do what they could to antagonize Russia, to get them to invade,

648
00:54:01,860 --> 00:54:06,380
to basically drop a package of sanctions on them that the world had never seen

649
00:54:06,380 --> 00:54:12,140
sanctions like the thousands of sanctions were being prepared on the wings so that when Russia

650
00:54:12,140 --> 00:54:18,140
crossed that border and Biden telegraphed this a number of times as soon if Russia cross crosses

651
00:54:18,140 --> 00:54:21,600
that border they're going to regret it we will come down so hard on them with it so they were

652
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:28,940
ready for all this and then Donetsk and Lugansk eventually when when Minsk collapsed and then

653
00:54:28,940 --> 00:54:38,140
Zelensky announced a major offensive in spring of 2021 to retake the Donbass. Russia knew at that

654
00:54:38,140 --> 00:54:44,140
point they had to start basically preparing for some kind of a, quote, humanitarian intervention

655
00:54:44,140 --> 00:54:52,360
or responsibly protect action to protect their people, the Russian-speaking people in eastern

656
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:59,740
Ukraine. And how this played out in the end was Russia sent a last-minute plea to the United

657
00:54:59,740 --> 00:55:06,040
States to Antony Blinken, who is Biden's Secretary of State, saying, you know, this is unacceptable.

658
00:55:06,420 --> 00:55:11,980
We need to avoid war. We need to come and sign a new agreement for a security architecture

659
00:55:11,980 --> 00:55:17,520
for this region. Ukraine cannot be a NATO country. We can't risk having nuclear weapons

660
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,600
on Ukrainian territory.

661
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,620
This would be a major security affront for Russia.

662
00:55:23,780 --> 00:55:24,380
It's unacceptable.

663
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,780
Let's come and stop the war in Donbass

664
00:55:27,780 --> 00:55:31,220
and let's get the mixed peace process done,

665
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,380
which would give autonomous status

666
00:55:34,380 --> 00:55:36,940
to Donetsk, Lugansk, and the eastern regions.

667
00:55:37,580 --> 00:55:38,680
Kiev didn't want this.

668
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:39,940
NATO didn't want this.

669
00:55:40,100 --> 00:55:41,040
Britain didn't want this.

670
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:42,720
And certainly Washington didn't want this.

671
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:44,720
Can I just cut in?

672
00:55:44,780 --> 00:55:45,080
Why?

673
00:55:45,420 --> 00:55:46,180
Why didn't they want it?

674
00:55:46,180 --> 00:55:54,320
They didn't want that because they have plans, which they are now doing, to use Ukraine as a cudgel.

675
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,780
So that side of it is true then?

676
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:05,300
Well, 100%. You just have to go look at the policies and the actions that have played out that absolutely prove that that's exactly what would happen.

677
00:56:05,300 --> 00:56:21,980
But Russia couldn move until those regions declared independence from Ukraine And when they did legally UN Charter Article 1 right to self that in the UN Charter they followed that then Russia

678
00:56:21,980 --> 00:56:26,900
recognized them as independent states, and then invited them to join Ascension to the Russian

679
00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:34,440
Federation, all done by the book. And so once that happened, then Russia moved their military assets

680
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:39,420
in. But those were Ukrainian militias for the most part, which were comprised of a lot of

681
00:56:39,420 --> 00:56:44,280
defectors from the Ukrainian military in Donetsk and Lugansk, which is interesting.

682
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:48,720
The same, you had massive defections in Crimea after the coup.

683
00:56:49,460 --> 00:56:53,900
So these were people that were worried about their future, and they're being sort of made

684
00:56:53,900 --> 00:56:59,420
illegal Russian citizen or Russian speakers, not given representation in parliament in

685
00:56:59,420 --> 00:57:00,360
the Rada and Kiev.

686
00:57:00,740 --> 00:57:05,520
So they're like, this is a basket case, US coup going on here with Nazis running around,

687
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:11,720
basically Ukrainian nationalists spouting anti-Russian slogans marching in the street with

688
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:18,420
torches uh this is not going to work for us we want to renegotiate our relationship so that's

689
00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:24,380
that's how it started Russia intervenes the rest is history and now we have you know the situation

690
00:57:24,380 --> 00:57:32,480
we have right now so and is it loosely speaking was the objective according to you to draw Russia

691
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,000
into a war.

692
00:57:35,140 --> 00:57:35,440
Yes.

693
00:57:35,580 --> 00:57:37,120
Because, yeah, but was the reason

694
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,760
because they thought it would destabilize Russia?

695
00:57:40,860 --> 00:57:42,320
Yes, 100%.

696
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,360
Yeah, so you have to understand,

697
00:57:45,580 --> 00:57:48,900
like in Washington, people are not very creative.

698
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:50,960
So they look at things in history,

699
00:57:51,260 --> 00:57:53,600
and even if they're true or not, they have a narrative.

700
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,780
And the narrative in the Cold War was,

701
00:57:56,060 --> 00:57:57,900
we bankrupted the Soviet Union.

702
00:57:58,340 --> 00:58:00,240
We bankrupted them in Afghanistan.

703
00:58:00,660 --> 00:58:02,020
We drew them into their Vietnam.

704
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:08,620
And then we did Star Wars and the SDI program under Reagan, and that bankrupted the Soviets.

705
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:10,080
And we won the arms race.

706
00:58:10,180 --> 00:58:11,080
We won the Cold War.

707
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:12,280
Capitalism wins.

708
00:58:12,420 --> 00:58:13,320
Communism is defeated.

709
00:58:13,620 --> 00:58:15,320
But it was a lot more complicated than that.

710
00:58:15,380 --> 00:58:20,320
The Soviet Union kind of was already in collapse on its own economically, politically.

711
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:25,780
It could not maintain the system that it had constructed over those years.

712
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,340
So there are many reasons why it met its demise.

713
00:58:30,340 --> 00:58:38,500
Plus, the political realities in the Soviet Union were just the people were no longer buying the dream anymore.

714
00:58:39,140 --> 00:58:43,920
And a lot of these things that the U.S. take credit for are really just kind of the knockout blows,

715
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,900
but not even a knockout punch, just a little tap, and it was ready to fall over.

716
00:58:48,660 --> 00:58:53,200
And so they think that another round of sanctions, we can defeat the Russian Empire.

717
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:55,940
So they're saying, well, let's do this round of sanctions.

718
00:58:55,940 --> 00:58:57,220
We're going to bring Russia to their knees.

719
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,760
The people are going to rise up, throw Vladimir Putin out.

720
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:07,000
I'm giving you verbatim quotes from Lindsey Graham and all these sort of senators who was saying this stuff for months.

721
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:08,200
They believe it.

722
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:09,940
And the reality is something different.

723
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:23,420
So if they can't get the history right, if your belief of history is a series of tropes and Western propaganda that's suited for whatever the political milieu of the day is,

724
00:59:23,420 --> 00:59:30,400
and then you're basing the current on old tropes, thinking you can repeat that recipe of success,

725
00:59:30,540 --> 00:59:35,680
it's not going to work because you're not dealing with reality. And what they've done is hugely

726
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:41,920
underestimate the capability, resilience of the Russian Federation militarily, politically,

727
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:47,020
and economically to the point where the Russian GDP is outperforming Europe and everybody else

728
00:59:47,020 --> 00:59:52,880
the last two years. How is that possible under a full global embargo? It seems impossible.

729
00:59:52,880 --> 01:00:00,300
yet this is what's happened so somebody has missed a big part of the picture why for political

730
01:00:00,300 --> 01:00:06,900
expediency for virtue signaling that we're still number one at nato and in i think all of this

731
01:00:06,900 --> 01:00:11,080
could have been inverted within weeks of the war breaking out they had a peace deal on the table

732
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:18,280
in istanbul in march 2022 and uh it was already signed the ukrainian zelensky had already signed

733
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:24,200
off on it. Putin had signed off on it. And Russia withdrew its troops from Kiev as part of that

734
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:31,260
agreement. And then Boris Johnson came in to basically say, no, you're not going to sign that.

735
01:00:31,340 --> 01:00:35,620
You're not going to do that. We're going to back you with more arms. We're going to win this thing.

736
01:00:35,900 --> 01:00:40,920
Just get behind us. And we're going to bring you across the finish line, Ukraine. And look where

737
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:47,040
we are now. It's an unmitigated disaster. Right. Let's assume all that's true.

738
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:56,680
um why like why did boris johnson go over there to carry this thing on like what what's the grand

739
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:03,480
conspiracy he's the emissary for the anglo i would say they called the anglo-american empire

740
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:08,840
nato being the arm the military arm of that all the european countries are second

741
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:14,440
junior partners it is the united states and britain everybody else locks in below that okay

742
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:20,080
They're useful for the city of London, Washington, and New York.

743
01:01:20,300 --> 01:01:22,580
And that's where the power is in NATO.

744
01:01:23,340 --> 01:01:29,060
And the vision is, if you believe U.S. think tanks, is to overextend Russia.

745
01:01:29,140 --> 01:01:32,680
I'm talking about the Iran Corporation and a whole host of other strategic think tanks.

746
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:39,120
And also from the EU, Kali Akhalas was talking about breaking Russia up into 10 different parts.

747
01:01:39,460 --> 01:01:41,600
It's too big. We need to break it up.

748
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:43,840
It's too much of a threat to European democracy.

749
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:49,900
what democracy um so we need to break it up we need to clip russia's wings and you know it all

750
01:01:49,900 --> 01:01:56,120
sounds great but you know europe's not willing to send one soldier they're not willing to you know

751
01:01:56,120 --> 01:02:01,860
spill any blood to fight the russians but they're happy to get the ukrainians to die in large numbers

752
01:02:01,860 --> 01:02:08,940
on uh to to sacrifice at the altar of uh the the european nato elite collective vanity

753
01:02:08,940 --> 01:02:16,480
fine a couple hundred thousand five seven hundred thousand ukrainians for for for nato's ego for for

754
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:24,320
our our legacy glory of uh european dominance of the last millennia uh in in the world i mean that's

755
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:28,960
kind of we're at a time and that we're we're in we're in a transition period where the old world

756
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:35,980
order has you know we're in a post-colonial we're still in the post-colonial epoch where the old

757
01:02:35,980 --> 01:02:43,680
world order is still holding on to the last vestiges of its global power. And the reality is

758
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:51,320
Asia is rising up financially, culturally, politically, and technologically as well.

759
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:58,160
China, of course, being the main driver. India also. These are not backwater colonies anymore.

760
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:04,080
But when Britain was in the ascendancy, when it had its empire, those were backwater economies.

761
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:27,220
But they're not anymore. But the problem is the Europeans and the Anglo-American establishment still are thinking with the 300-year-old great game playbook, which is to break up the Eurasian landmass and prevent Germany and Russia from developing ties and to sever links with Iran and Central Asia, overland trade routes, Silk Road.

762
01:03:27,220 --> 01:03:31,840
That's what every single war from the mid-1900s was about.

763
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:36,720
It was to establish maritime dominance.

764
01:03:37,300 --> 01:03:39,780
Because who controlled all of the maritime nodes?

765
01:03:40,220 --> 01:03:42,300
British and then later the Americans.

766
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:48,580
And not just the trading and the commercial nodes, but the legal framework, the global insurance framework.

767
01:03:49,140 --> 01:03:54,720
East India, right back to the East India Company and so forth.

768
01:03:54,720 --> 01:04:00,440
Holland is all, the Dutch are also a very important part of that history in terms of

769
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,140
shipping and finance and trade.

770
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:06,520
So that's the dominant paradigm for a long time.

771
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,520
And only in recent years has that been challenged.

772
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,180
And that's a lot of what this is about.

773
01:04:12,420 --> 01:04:14,620
And so is this productive?

774
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:16,280
Is this going to go anywhere?

775
01:04:16,540 --> 01:04:18,400
Or is this just going to lead to more war?

776
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:23,340
That's kind of a fundamental question that we all need to ask ourselves because we're

777
01:04:23,340 --> 01:04:30,340
being asked to back all this as the public and contribute to it and pay for it and give us give

778
01:04:30,340 --> 01:04:35,160
our blessing to our governments that this is the right way to go we need to we need to fight the

779
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:40,560
Russians do we really need to fight the Russians though is there another way to do this where we

780
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:47,360
can all kind of be prosperous so so according to you then this is a war everything all of these wars

781
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:52,540
and everything that you see going on currently these are all geopolitical moves they're not

782
01:04:52,540 --> 01:05:02,600
like um they're not sort of like um millet companies that's selling arms who are speaking

783
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:07,200
in politicians ears and telling them oh we need no it is that as well that as well right oh it is

784
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:14,180
that as well that see that's the profitable end those are the profitable ends of those geopolitical

785
01:05:14,180 --> 01:05:19,860
maneuvers and and they're not the only you have the energy you have the gas the oil uh commodities

786
01:05:19,860 --> 01:05:22,460
markets, you have lots of other areas.

787
01:05:22,460 --> 01:05:25,000
And just look, from the United States point of view,

788
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,060
it's about creating dollar zones.

789
01:05:27,060 --> 01:05:29,800
Because those dollar zones prop up the value of the dollar

790
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:31,340
as a world reserve currency, and that

791
01:05:31,340 --> 01:05:43,680
is the source of US deficit spending which gives them a trillion dollars to have military dominance that no other country can do that Only the U can do that And it not like they have the money to do it They make the money to do it They print the money to do it

792
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:47,900
And they do that, that the value of the dollar doesn't collapse because there's so much dollars

793
01:05:47,900 --> 01:05:49,000
in circulation globally.

794
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:50,600
How do you create dollar zones?

795
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,220
You occupy, you create military bases.

796
01:05:53,380 --> 01:05:55,760
You have South Korea, North Korea, DMZ.

797
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,560
You have Japan, military occupied.

798
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:05,940
You have Germany, Rammstein and Stuttgart, and all of these other.

799
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,400
You have 47 bases around Scandinavia.

800
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:09,760
We've got Britain.

801
01:06:10,460 --> 01:06:13,200
That's dollars, dollars, dollars, euro dollars.

802
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:18,620
Just the U.S. military presence, which isn't as much as it was in the 80s,

803
01:06:19,580 --> 01:06:24,860
but just the military presence in Europe alone creates a demand

804
01:06:24,860 --> 01:06:27,320
for a significant amount of euro dollars.

805
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:32,560
that's aside from what the banks are doing in Dusseldorf and the Frank

806
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:37,440
course the denominating assets in dollars or oil or whatever commodities

807
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:42,760
commodities yeah so that's that's also what it's about so it's it's as you said

808
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:48,680
and more but but the big shifts the big movements are geopolitical and so that's

809
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:54,920
that those tectonic plates they come first yes so that the arms the selling of

810
01:06:54,920 --> 01:07:00,200
arms is downstream from the power moves of the geopolitical power moves.

811
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:00,660
Absolutely.

812
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:07,700
And then the higher level of that above the geopolitics is the civilizational direction.

813
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:08,980
Well, hold a minute.

814
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:09,920
That sounds interesting.

815
01:07:11,020 --> 01:07:15,820
That's the realm in which truthers would probably say there's a grand conspiracy, right?

816
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:16,260
Yeah.

817
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:18,240
Well, historically, there would be.

818
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:21,200
So if you think about Pax Romana.

819
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:22,700
What's that?

820
01:07:23,060 --> 01:07:24,480
Pax Romana is the Roman Empire.

821
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:30,800
Oh, sorry. Yeah. Everything Roman, Pax, Pax, everything Roman, Roman language, Roman money,

822
01:07:31,300 --> 01:07:38,000
Roman law, Roman literature, Roman education, Roman infrastructure, Roman roads, Roman

823
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:44,300
languages, Roman arches and buildings, everything, Roman culture, you know, the, the, you go

824
01:07:44,300 --> 01:07:49,720
to Bath and you can see remnants of Roman culture in England. And so that's Pax Romana.

825
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:57,060
now it's Pax Americana but before that was Pax Britannia and I will argue that Pax Britannia

826
01:07:57,060 --> 01:08:05,920
was closer to Pax Romana than Pax Americana because Pax Britannia gave the English language

827
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:12,100
as the global second language of the world and America is really on piggybacked on the back of

828
01:08:12,100 --> 01:08:17,480
that we're talking the education system the legal system the political systems the the democratic

829
01:08:17,480 --> 01:08:23,320
it's the parliamentary systems it's all british much of it so that's a civilizational direction

830
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:29,120
and so there are people in uh you could say that the elites in the anglo-american world

831
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:35,800
their biggest concern planning forward in the next you know 100 or 200 or you know 500 years

832
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:41,820
or whatever um and and i i'm not even talking about the church and the vatican and christianity

833
01:08:41,820 --> 01:08:44,120
in terms of Europe and globally.

834
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:46,960
That's part of this conversation.

835
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:49,620
So they're asking themselves,

836
01:08:49,820 --> 01:08:52,300
do we want the future of the world?

837
01:08:52,540 --> 01:08:53,680
Right now, the future of the world

838
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:56,400
is an English-speaking dominated direction.

839
01:08:56,980 --> 01:09:00,720
The ship is being steered with an Anglo-American captain

840
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:05,160
and Pax Americana stroke Britannia, if you will,

841
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:08,240
and Europa, Pax Europa as well,

842
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:10,440
because European culture is also included in this.

843
01:09:10,440 --> 01:09:12,600
but is it going to be Pax China?

844
01:09:13,340 --> 01:09:17,480
You know, what's Pax China look like for the rest of the world?

845
01:09:17,700 --> 01:09:20,420
Well, we know because it's a rather large country already.

846
01:09:21,440 --> 01:09:24,080
Linguistically, like our kids are going to all learn Chinese

847
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:26,520
as a second language in 100 years.

848
01:09:27,020 --> 01:09:28,300
Like, is that the future?

849
01:09:28,820 --> 01:09:31,920
Can I ask you a quick question about Pax Europana?

850
01:09:32,260 --> 01:09:32,400
Oh, no.

851
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:33,320
Europa.

852
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:34,000
We'll say Europa.

853
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:34,540
Yeah, yeah.

854
01:09:36,060 --> 01:09:39,000
How does the whole migration thing fit into this?

855
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:50,900
Because one of the big memes in the alternative media is that the migration thing is some kind of plan to basically destabilize Europe, right?

856
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,780
Is that a deep, I mean, what do you think about that plan even in itself or that idea?

857
01:09:55,020 --> 01:09:59,240
I think, well, let's just ask what's happening.

858
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:01,660
Is it destabilizing Europe politically?

859
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,380
I would say it's on the way to destabilizing Europe politically for sure.

860
01:10:05,380 --> 01:10:13,860
and a lot of the destabilization is also coming on the back of I think a lot of ethnic and religious

861
01:10:13,860 --> 01:10:20,340
strife and and what I would call sectarian issues that are developing because I've seen

862
01:10:20,340 --> 01:10:25,900
sectarianism in the Middle East okay and I know what the end result is and it becomes generational

863
01:10:25,900 --> 01:10:32,740
and it never ends so it's this is not a path you generally want to go on and Europe chose not to

864
01:10:32,740 --> 01:10:38,980
go down that route after the enlightenment and started to build uh you know egalitarian societies

865
01:10:38,980 --> 01:10:46,060
merit-based societies constitutional uh governments uh and structures where you have

866
01:10:46,060 --> 01:10:53,060
rights bill of rights and things like that and um and you know for all its criticisms and the

867
01:10:53,060 --> 01:11:00,220
these would include multi-ethnic uh democracies america being like the obvious example of this

868
01:11:00,220 --> 01:11:18,760
And so now we're in a situation where because of the clash, this supposed clash of civilizations, there's people that are now advocating to roll back some of these principles and some of these things that have been developed or put into place.

869
01:11:18,940 --> 01:11:19,900
Who's advocating that?

870
01:11:20,780 --> 01:11:22,160
The remigration.

871
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:23,020
People.

872
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:23,520
Yeah.

873
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:29,320
So you think there is something, you think there's a conscious push behind that?

874
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:36,780
I think there's a conscious push, but there's also a wing of the establishment that's putting a lot of money into pushing this.

875
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:37,100
Why?

876
01:11:37,620 --> 01:11:40,680
This is a good question, and this is worth investigating.

877
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:46,120
This is worth looking into, and I think this conversation needs to be developed.

878
01:11:46,740 --> 01:11:50,340
There's more than a few stakeholders in this, more than a few.

879
01:11:52,440 --> 01:11:56,240
Transnational corporations favor immigration for obvious reasons.

880
01:11:56,480 --> 01:11:58,440
So we have different levels of the conversation.

881
01:11:58,440 --> 01:12:09,780
We have the street level, which is obvious, football terraces, angry guys in the pub, you know, which crosses adorned in the cross of St. George, you know, the Muslims and whatever.

882
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:12,280
There's Tommy Robinson's kind of on that level.

883
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:15,840
Then we go up to the higher level, which is government policy level.

884
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:24,920
And so government policy have issues of they're looking at birth rates, declining white European birth rates have fallen off a cliff.

885
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:32,440
this is devastating on many levels to government institutions many of which are funded per head

886
01:12:32,440 --> 01:12:40,220
or based on what what you might say you know crudely bums on seats schools nhs other institutions

887
01:12:40,220 --> 01:12:44,720
whether you know whether you have a viable bank branch or a post office in your town might

888
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:50,860
might come down to in today's world of government efficiency well it's just not worth it we don't

889
01:12:50,860 --> 01:12:56,900
have the customer base because we're now customers, right? We used to not be customers,

890
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:01,700
but now we're customers of everything, all these government services or privatized services.

891
01:13:02,260 --> 01:13:07,660
So there's that level. Government's bringing in millions of people through normal ports of entry,

892
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:13,400
and that's clearly policy. And this was also ramped up in many ways under Tory government.

893
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:18,960
Surprise, surprise. Why was that? I thought conservatives are generally against immigration.

894
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:27,920
So obviously, if the transnational is pro-immigration, then of course, the Tory would also be pro-transnational.

895
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:33,500
Ergo, they're going to adopt policies that transnational corporations are happy about.

896
01:13:33,820 --> 01:13:35,180
And immigration is one of them.

897
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,000
And it's not necessarily a choice.

898
01:13:37,700 --> 01:13:45,520
So when you're running a country or you're running a few countries, you have to consider, are we going to shut that town down?

899
01:13:45,860 --> 01:13:47,300
Are we going to shut that neighborhood down?

900
01:13:47,300 --> 01:13:50,260
We're going to have empty buildings, empty businesses.

901
01:13:50,700 --> 01:13:51,660
How are we going to serve?

902
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:53,300
How are we going to keep the institutions going?

903
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:54,180
How is it going to be funded?

904
01:13:54,300 --> 01:13:56,020
There's a certain level of corruption as well,

905
01:13:56,660 --> 01:13:59,540
self-serving corruption within the bureaucracy, of course.

906
01:13:59,540 --> 01:14:03,460
And we're getting into the Soviet failure conversation there

907
01:14:03,460 --> 01:14:07,480
because we've constructed similar structures,

908
01:14:08,020 --> 01:14:10,120
hierarchical vertical structures,

909
01:14:10,380 --> 01:14:13,560
the very thing that created failure in the Soviet system,

910
01:14:14,020 --> 01:14:16,320
big, massive vertical structures.

911
01:14:17,300 --> 01:14:21,140
where everything went up and you go to the top and you can come down. They didn't talk to each

912
01:14:21,140 --> 01:14:26,480
other like this. They went up and then they talked at that level and then came down. And that was one

913
01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:33,760
of the failures of that system. We've constructed a private public version of this in modern West.

914
01:14:34,340 --> 01:14:39,100
And so now we go to the higher level of the conversation. That's what the investment banks

915
01:14:39,100 --> 01:14:44,800
are being briefed on. Do we see those meetings? Do we see those PowerPoint presentations? We get

916
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:46,560
Take glimpses of them.

917
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:53,560
And those consultants are briefing the Pentagon and they're briefing the DOD and the MOD in

918
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:54,760
Britain.

919
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:59,060
And they're briefing them about trends and movements and economic movements in the Middle

920
01:14:59,060 --> 01:14:59,980
East.

921
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:01,780
Europe, in Eastern Europe and so forth.

922
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:13,300
Major Wall Street banks are advising governments and our military on these issues of how to move people from a, what they call the gap,

923
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:21,780
these are third world countries, developing world countries, to what they call the core, the core being advanced modern democracies.

924
01:15:21,780 --> 01:15:29,700
I'm telling you verbatim from presentations by Cantor Fitzgerald to the United States Pentagon post 9-11.

925
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:31,800
And these are long-term programs.

926
01:15:32,060 --> 01:15:33,460
They're managing the globe.

927
01:15:34,180 --> 01:15:36,120
They're moving people from A to B.

928
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:37,240
How do you move them?

929
01:15:37,780 --> 01:15:38,660
You start a war.

930
01:15:39,940 --> 01:15:42,720
And where are the biggest migrant flows coming into Europe?

931
01:15:43,220 --> 01:15:44,680
Well, let's just start with Libya.

932
01:15:45,020 --> 01:15:45,620
What was that?

933
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:46,900
That was a NATO intervention.

934
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:47,900
On what grounds?

935
01:15:48,180 --> 01:15:49,160
No grounds at all.

936
01:15:49,480 --> 01:15:57,860
And that took the safety valve off of sub-Saharan African migration into Europe from Sudan, Ethiopia, Eritrea, and so forth.

937
01:15:58,260 --> 01:15:59,360
The Sudanese Civil War.

938
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:05,460
How did that happen? CIA heavily involved in the partition of Sudan. And I could go on Somalia,

939
01:16:05,900 --> 01:16:12,720
Djibouti, Ethiopia, civil war, and so forth. Massive amount of sub-Saharan Africans into Europe,

940
01:16:12,820 --> 01:16:20,340
into the UK, into Italy. Next, Syria. Next, Afghanistan. That's Uzbekistan, Tajikistan,

941
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:27,600
all of the Central Asian migration flows, direct result of the Afghan war. Iraq, another one.

942
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:36,020
Yugoslavia the Balkans Kosovo Albania that's a that's the bulk of UK immigration during Tony

943
01:16:36,020 --> 01:16:43,180
Blair's first two terms NATO intervention didn't need to happen stable no we had to break up

944
01:16:43,180 --> 01:16:51,160
Yugoslavia we're here we're in Serbia so Syria perfect example why does Syria need to be broken

945
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:55,860
up why did the government need to be overthrown in Syria where we're told back to our propaganda

946
01:16:55,860 --> 01:17:02,400
a conversation. The BBC line is Bashar al-Assad was an evil dictator. He was a bloodthirsty butcher,

947
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:07,360
much like Vladimir Putin's an evil dictator. No other reason than that. They're just evil

948
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:12,240
dictators and they're killing their own people. We need to overthrow them. No, there was a specific

949
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:17,580
reason for that. Now we can see it. Now you have a terrorist in charge in Syria. The government's

950
01:17:17,580 --> 01:17:23,900
long gone. And Israel has occupied the entire corridor of southern Syria, the Golan Heights,

951
01:17:23,900 --> 01:17:29,720
Mount Hermon all the way up to practically Iraqi Kurdistan with the US. So that's a total

952
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:35,300
strategic reshuffle of the most important piece of real estate in the Middle East

953
01:17:35,300 --> 01:17:43,580
like that. It took 15 years and what do we get in Europe? We get the migrant backlash from that.

954
01:17:45,020 --> 01:17:49,780
Are we going to question our governments of why they did this in the first place?

955
01:17:49,780 --> 01:17:55,680
nope that's not where the government or the media wants to have that conversation but the way you're

956
01:17:55,680 --> 01:18:02,680
describing i mean that that does seem incredible that someone sits down and plans but it's like

957
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:08,500
it's like moving cars in a car park i can send you the link to the presentation but but that is it's

958
01:18:08,500 --> 01:18:14,200
kind of hinting at well which what is the reason behind it i mean take that whole scenario you've

959
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:19,860
just described, the result being migration to Europe. It doesn't seem like that's the reason

960
01:18:19,860 --> 01:18:26,920
they did it. It seemed, or is it? I mean, I think I, but what about all the other stuff? What about

961
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:33,680
the, the, the shifting borders in, or the breaking up countries so they're not as strong, you know?

962
01:18:33,700 --> 01:18:40,540
No, that's part, that's right. So the migration is a, is a, is a byproduct of, a useful byproduct.

963
01:18:40,540 --> 01:18:47,240
Yeah, and the protection of the state of Israel is probably, for the United States, is the most important Middle Eastern issue.

964
01:18:47,660 --> 01:18:48,420
Yeah, why is that?

965
01:18:48,860 --> 01:18:54,880
Because Israel is basically the beachhead, traditionally, of the Anglo-American Empire.

966
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:58,320
Wait a minute, I don't even understand that. What do you mean beachhead?

967
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:03,020
It is, it's the last colonial settler project practically in the world.

968
01:19:03,380 --> 01:19:09,600
You mean after the war, when they decided to give Israel a homeland?

969
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:14,100
Yeah, so think about all the colonies are going independent around 1948,

970
01:19:14,580 --> 01:19:19,400
and they create a new British-backed and paid for a new colonial project.

971
01:19:19,620 --> 01:19:21,260
They created the State of Israel.

972
01:19:21,460 --> 01:19:24,800
It was born out of the First World War.

973
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:26,200
But why is it so important?

974
01:19:26,700 --> 01:19:30,840
Because it allows – I'll tell you why.

975
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:34,660
Because during the Cold War, the biggest threat to the U.S. and the West

976
01:19:34,660 --> 01:19:36,340
was not communism in the Middle East.

977
01:19:36,340 --> 01:19:37,760
It was Arab nationalism.

978
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:42,620
and that was after World War I, the breakup of the Ottoman Empire.

979
01:19:43,940 --> 01:19:47,500
That is one of the main reasons why World War I was waged,

980
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,500
to keep the Ottoman Empire and Germany.

981
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:52,200
Jesus, we've got to slow down, mate.

982
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:57,840
No, but just understand, oil was just discovered in the early 20th century

983
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,320
and the British and the French did not want the Germans

984
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:03,280
to get a hold of the Iraqi oil fields in Kirkirk.

985
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:11,240
that's why they had to create the Arab revolt at Lawrence of Arabia you know the story to basically

986
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:16,420
defeat the Ottomans because they didn't want that in German hands because Germans were allied with

987
01:20:16,420 --> 01:20:20,700
the Ottomans very important so they promised the Arabs an independent Arab state in Palestine

988
01:20:20,700 --> 01:20:25,840
the British and the French as long as you fight for us against the Turks and they fought and what

989
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:29,960
happened at the end the British and the French decided behind their back to draw the borders

990
01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:35,940
differently anyway. The British took Palestine and then gave it to Israel in 1948. And the Arabs

991
01:20:35,940 --> 01:20:40,700
felt like they were betrayed. They had a few kings like in Jordan, Hashemite king in Jordan,

992
01:20:40,780 --> 01:20:47,860
and then they gave the Saudis a couple of families of Bedouins who were, you know, may or may not

993
01:20:47,860 --> 01:20:53,200
deserve to have a country named after them, but they gave them the Emirates. And so it's a very

994
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:59,460
fast digested history of the Middle East but the bottom line was that Arab

995
01:20:59,460 --> 01:21:03,940
nationalism was the biggest threat to the British and to the West because they

996
01:21:03,940 --> 01:21:08,880
couldn't control Arab nationalist states especially secular states and if they

997
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:13,300
happen to go socialist that would even be worse obviously and that's why Iran

998
01:21:13,300 --> 01:21:17,200
was overthrown the government Iran the US and the British overthrow the Iranian

999
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:21,400
government 1953 for that very reason they went to nationalize the oil and BP

1000
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:26,860
was not going to have that so was the was the Arab nationalization threat an

1001
01:21:26,860 --> 01:21:34,840
oil thing namely oil but also the Suez Canal oh sure of course Jesus get Gamel

1002
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:40,660
Abdul Nasser was a mercurial leader of Egypt and the Suez crisis and and

1003
01:21:40,660 --> 01:21:44,160
everything that kind of unfolded after that that's when you started to see the

1004
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:48,820
new Middle East take shape after the Suez crisis and that's when the when the

1005
01:21:48,820 --> 01:21:54,300
Middle East was handed from the British to the Americans. That was the result of the Suez crisis.

1006
01:21:54,300 --> 01:22:03,840
Slight right angle out of this, because we could go on forever here. Why is Israel so important now?

1007
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:10,960
And why does everyone get so upset about it? Like, why do most people in this sort of, well,

1008
01:22:11,020 --> 01:22:15,040
I don't know if it's most people, but a lot of people in the kind of alternative media think

1009
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:22,200
there's a cabal of Jewish people running the world and that's why they're um that's why Mossad are the

1010
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:28,620
reason that everyone's in in this you know in the U.S. Senate is scared to talk about or the Epstein's

1011
01:22:28,620 --> 01:22:34,840
blackmailing all this kind of stuff yeah yeah well look there might be truth to some of this um and

1012
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:41,100
but I don't like to kind of ruminate on you know this Jewish cabal whatever it's called because to

1013
01:22:41,100 --> 01:22:52,020
To me, it's not just a rabbit hole, but also a trap because you're getting sucked into ethnic or religious arguments.

1014
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:52,480
All right.

1015
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:57,380
To me, it's about raw power, empire, and geopolitics.

1016
01:22:57,500 --> 01:23:00,680
So why is Israel so bloody important?

1017
01:23:01,260 --> 01:23:04,540
Why does everyone seem to, certainly the States,

1018
01:23:04,540 --> 01:23:10,760
why is, considering it's such a small place really, and could be inconsequential,

1019
01:23:11,100 --> 01:23:13,260
It's not. It's made something consequential.

1020
01:23:13,460 --> 01:23:21,800
It's so consequential, in fact, that it enjoys unqualified support for the United States financially and militarily.

1021
01:23:22,260 --> 01:23:26,020
The entire U.S. military footprint in the Middle East is to protect Israel.

1022
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:27,180
Yeah, so come on, why?

1023
01:23:27,580 --> 01:23:29,860
Because they need, there's two reasons.

1024
01:23:30,580 --> 01:23:37,520
Israel is allowed to pursue its greater Israel ambitions, which Netanyahu admitted recently, greater Israel.

1025
01:23:37,780 --> 01:23:38,380
What does that mean?

1026
01:23:38,380 --> 01:23:44,180
That means the expansion of the state of Israel, or at least the control of the surrounding countries under Israeli authority.

1027
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:50,420
This was thought to be a conspiracy theory, but in fact this has great academic grounding.

1028
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:56,260
In the Israeli political literature, right back to the 1980s,

1029
01:23:56,620 --> 01:24:04,020
an Israeli minister named Odi Yinnon penned a strategic paper back then that became the blueprint.

1030
01:24:04,020 --> 01:24:08,500
If you read it now, it's chapter and verse, everything that has happened pretty much right

1031
01:24:08,500 --> 01:24:14,560
up to the present moment, including the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

1032
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:28,174
And they had the Sinai Peninsula for a brief period of time after the Six War I believe and then gave it back in a peace treaty with or an interim peace agreement with the Egyptians

1033
01:24:28,874 --> 01:24:32,834
But, see, Israel is an important Western enclave,

1034
01:24:33,054 --> 01:24:37,094
Western enclave in an Arab world, okay?

1035
01:24:37,294 --> 01:24:39,794
And so the United States will not give that up,

1036
01:24:40,154 --> 01:24:42,734
but by the same token, it's developed political.

1037
01:24:42,734 --> 01:24:51,434
the israeli lobby in the united states enjoys unrivaled power in terms of its sponsorship and

1038
01:24:51,434 --> 01:24:56,434
tutelage of congressmen and senators coming through the ranks in u.s politics that are going to vote

1039
01:24:56,434 --> 01:25:03,854
pro-israel on all and every issue so it's it's a symbiotic relationship the u.s will support

1040
01:25:03,854 --> 01:25:10,114
israel so long as israel helps the u.s and the european powers and west uk advance their

1041
01:25:10,114 --> 01:25:15,794
geopolitical interests and objectives. And if that objective is taking down the regime in Iran

1042
01:25:15,794 --> 01:25:20,134
in order to prevent China from expanding the Belt and Road Initiative or

1043
01:25:20,134 --> 01:25:25,894
give an example, there's a middle corridor project between Russia and Iran to link up

1044
01:25:25,894 --> 01:25:32,254
port of Mumbai to Moscow. That's not happening. That's not happening right now. But that would

1045
01:25:32,254 --> 01:25:38,574
change of the economic commercial flow of the entire Eurasian continent.

1046
01:25:39,094 --> 01:25:41,534
And Iraq has also similar programs.

1047
01:25:41,914 --> 01:25:47,134
Qatar and other countries have plans for a trans-Arabian pipeline to connect the Mediterranean

1048
01:25:47,134 --> 01:25:47,834
to Europe.

1049
01:25:48,174 --> 01:25:51,574
There's all of these competing agendas going on.

1050
01:25:51,934 --> 01:25:53,734
So that's why we have conflict.

1051
01:25:53,934 --> 01:25:54,934
That's why we have war.

1052
01:25:54,934 --> 01:26:02,214
The minute Israel becomes a liability to global capital, then the agenda will

1053
01:26:02,214 --> 01:26:09,254
change. But what could that be? Because it wouldn't necessarily happen because they are,

1054
01:26:09,654 --> 01:26:14,854
like the way you described it, a beacon in the Arab world. They're an outpost.

1055
01:26:15,134 --> 01:26:22,094
They're an outpost for U.S. interests. And U.S. and European interests is to keep the Middle East

1056
01:26:22,094 --> 01:26:30,174
unstable. The Emirates can be stable because it's easy to control monarchies when the monarch

1057
01:26:30,174 --> 01:26:36,774
deposits all of their dollars in your bank accounts. In New York, the petrodollar has

1058
01:26:36,774 --> 01:26:43,054
propped up the United States economy and kept the Gulf Arabs rich for many decades.

1059
01:26:43,814 --> 01:26:50,034
But things are shifting and changing. Global capital will decide who's going to have a place

1060
01:26:50,034 --> 01:26:57,354
in the future. And when Israel becomes a liability is when its brand becomes so damaged globally

1061
01:26:57,354 --> 01:27:02,254
because of extremist political or Zionist objectives

1062
01:27:02,254 --> 01:27:06,414
to cleanse the whole of Gaza of the native Palestinian population

1063
01:27:06,414 --> 01:27:09,694
against umpteen UN resolutions

1064
01:27:09,694 --> 01:27:15,034
and a whole body of international law over the last 70, 80 years.

1065
01:27:15,294 --> 01:27:20,094
And that's seen as an affront by most of the world, but not the US.

1066
01:27:20,094 --> 01:27:22,794
But what matters is what the US thinks.

1067
01:27:23,294 --> 01:27:26,934
This is another question that's a little bit left field.

1068
01:27:27,354 --> 01:27:32,014
what did you make of that video Trump put out of Gaza?

1069
01:27:32,214 --> 01:27:33,454
Why did he do that?

1070
01:27:33,974 --> 01:27:35,194
What was that all about?

1071
01:27:35,474 --> 01:27:35,914
Insane.

1072
01:27:36,494 --> 01:27:36,914
Yeah, why?

1073
01:27:37,354 --> 01:27:38,854
I didn't understand it.

1074
01:27:38,954 --> 01:27:42,914
I thought it could be a funny joke if you were a really dark motherfucker.

1075
01:27:43,654 --> 01:27:44,214
Do you know what I mean?

1076
01:27:44,694 --> 01:27:47,094
But you don't do that in politics.

1077
01:27:47,094 --> 01:27:51,434
Not as the President of the United States to put out that type of material.

1078
01:27:51,934 --> 01:27:53,074
So why did he do it?

1079
01:27:53,114 --> 01:27:56,034
It didn't seem to serve a purpose.

1080
01:27:56,034 --> 01:28:02,294
You know, it brings, it calls into question what is going on in the Trump administration.

1081
01:28:02,754 --> 01:28:02,854
Right.

1082
01:28:02,914 --> 01:28:05,234
What type of people, what's the culture like?

1083
01:28:05,434 --> 01:28:07,574
Are they tethered to reality?

1084
01:28:09,074 --> 01:28:11,614
It calls corruption issues into question.

1085
01:28:11,694 --> 01:28:14,754
And this is not behavior that you want to see no matter who you support.

1086
01:28:15,094 --> 01:28:20,214
Me as an old school American, I don't want to see my president putting that stuff out on social media.

1087
01:28:20,514 --> 01:28:23,474
But what do you think they thought it would do?

1088
01:28:23,854 --> 01:28:25,494
It's a bit insidious.

1089
01:28:25,494 --> 01:28:26,854
It's almost like they're trolling.

1090
01:28:27,054 --> 01:28:27,634
Yeah.

1091
01:28:28,094 --> 01:28:29,774
They're trolling the Palestinians.

1092
01:28:30,034 --> 01:28:36,374
They're trolling people who support the end to what the international courts of justice

1093
01:28:36,374 --> 01:28:41,594
and now the entire body of Jewish genocide scholarship is calling,

1094
01:28:41,674 --> 01:28:44,854
Jewish scholarship is calling a genocide in Gaza.

1095
01:28:45,434 --> 01:28:45,614
Okay.

1096
01:28:45,794 --> 01:28:46,554
Not my opinion.

1097
01:28:47,294 --> 01:28:53,274
So the lobby and the people who are supporting Netanyahu and this effort,

1098
01:28:53,274 --> 01:29:01,874
things are getting weird you have soldiers doing tiktok videos of blowing up schools and churches

1099
01:29:01,874 --> 01:29:08,134
and in the background and this is not normal behavior so with the world is in a very very

1100
01:29:08,134 --> 01:29:15,314
strange moment this is this we never we've never seen anything like this before and there's reams

1101
01:29:15,314 --> 01:29:25,614
and reams of this out. And the Harvard Dataverse put out a report, dead or missing, 377,000 in Gaza.

1102
01:29:26,094 --> 01:29:31,994
That's a lot more than the 62,000 they have in the register, but most of the names they can't find

1103
01:29:31,994 --> 01:29:39,614
because the bodies are missing. So this is unprecedented. This is new territory for us.

1104
01:29:39,614 --> 01:29:45,994
We don't have the tools to process this as a society.

1105
01:29:46,294 --> 01:29:48,834
It's just nothing that we have experience with.

1106
01:29:49,034 --> 01:29:49,754
Well, what's going on?

1107
01:29:50,074 --> 01:29:51,494
Things have gotten out of control.

1108
01:29:51,574 --> 01:29:52,694
Yeah, what do you mean?

1109
01:29:53,234 --> 01:29:58,174
Is it like, you know, the berserkers or something?

1110
01:29:58,354 --> 01:29:59,734
Are we going berserk?

1111
01:29:59,734 --> 01:30:05,234
We're going into great power, you know, like World War I, great power politics.

1112
01:30:06,414 --> 01:30:08,934
Even go back even to medieval times.

1113
01:30:08,934 --> 01:30:16,894
I mean, there's a level of brutality and barbarity that I think has reared its head and does periodically in history.

1114
01:30:17,734 --> 01:30:21,814
And it usually is a prelude to a major global conflagration.

1115
01:30:21,994 --> 01:30:23,074
I hope that doesn't happen.

1116
01:30:23,594 --> 01:30:24,834
No one wants that to happen.

1117
01:30:25,894 --> 01:30:32,494
But in the collective madness, a collective people are losing their minds in powerful places.

1118
01:30:32,614 --> 01:30:33,914
And all that matters is power.

1119
01:30:34,734 --> 01:30:36,054
All that matters is power.

1120
01:30:36,054 --> 01:30:43,494
ethics and morals are secondary concerns right now uh you know discretion is no longer a thing

1121
01:30:43,494 --> 01:30:48,134
in politics just from this thing you're talking about this this this film that was put out by

1122
01:30:48,134 --> 01:30:53,114
trump where's the discretion doesn't matter anymore what are we dealing with here this is

1123
01:30:53,114 --> 01:30:59,254
i have nothing i have no vocabulary to describe this for my whole life of watching politics i

1124
01:30:59,254 --> 01:31:05,094
cannot put this into any context and and so there's a level of paralysis that has been

1125
01:31:05,094 --> 01:31:12,154
induced as a result of this it's like shock and awe we're in a shock and awe situation in history

1126
01:31:12,154 --> 01:31:16,074
and a lot of people just do not know how to react to it so what do they do they just stay

1127
01:31:16,074 --> 01:31:21,354
despondent and silent is this because we've been we've lived in a bit of a bubble for for a number

1128
01:31:21,354 --> 01:31:25,514
of years since the war i mean yes because when you look at when you look at what happened in

1129
01:31:25,514 --> 01:31:30,834
world war one and world war two it was disgusting and despicable and it was horrendous you know all

1130
01:31:30,834 --> 01:31:36,714
this shit that went down in world war one you know sending young boys off to rot in trenches

1131
01:31:36,714 --> 01:31:42,214
and all this horrendous murder and suffering you know and we've just lived through a really nice

1132
01:31:42,214 --> 01:31:49,334
patch so now it seems a little bit out of the ordinary but actually it's possibly the modus

1133
01:31:49,334 --> 01:31:55,374
operandi of the human species yeah actually born during peacetime my you know parents were born

1134
01:31:55,374 --> 01:32:00,634
during peacetime i was born like my kids would be born during peacetime three gen four generations

1135
01:32:00,634 --> 01:32:06,414
in peacetime and we we outsource our violence now we don't have to do it on european necessarily

1136
01:32:06,414 --> 01:32:12,434
on european shorts we don't even have to send troops it'll be missiles targeted drones targeted

1137
01:32:12,434 --> 01:32:16,574
missiles drones and we're getting we're not even there yet we're getting into a new paradigm

1138
01:32:16,574 --> 01:32:22,474
which could actually be quite dangerous because it could trigger nuclear response

1139
01:32:22,474 --> 01:32:28,294
and it's not like sending thousands of people to the front anymore it doesn't not going to happen

1140
01:32:28,294 --> 01:32:34,134
like that so so the the reason is we're all detached now from the process we're not being

1141
01:32:34,134 --> 01:32:39,154
conscripted in western europe not yet but they're talking about conscription in germany and other

1142
01:32:39,154 --> 01:32:43,954
countries and getting ready to confront the russian menace i mean is that is is that going

1143
01:32:43,954 --> 01:32:49,554
to get any purchase in the general public doesn't sound like it's very popular so what uh what's

1144
01:32:49,554 --> 01:32:56,254
going on here who the hell is going to fight for the uk or germany or macron who's going to go in

1145
01:32:56,254 --> 01:33:01,034
a trench for Emmanuel Macron do you know what I mean I mean maybe they maybe they'll fight for

1146
01:33:01,034 --> 01:33:09,514
Candace Owens but not you I mean we she's the Joan of Arc of France I mean she she could be

1147
01:33:09,514 --> 01:33:18,834
president I think probably oh my god so so yeah geopolitics man it's horrendous I mean it's um

1148
01:33:18,834 --> 01:33:28,834
it's a bloody chess game with absolutely no morals whatsoever there's no no honor amongst

1149
01:33:28,834 --> 01:33:34,814
thieves in that chess game no absolutely not absolutely not all the civility that we built

1150
01:33:34,814 --> 01:33:39,214
up just think about it all of the institutions that we put in place after the second world war

1151
01:33:39,214 --> 01:33:52,468
from the united nations love it or hate it the geneva conventions the genocide convention the human rights convention the wto all of these multilateral institutions that were constructed for the purpose of avoiding

1152
01:33:52,468 --> 01:33:57,308
the biggest crimes war crimes and crimes against humanity of all time all of these things have

1153
01:33:57,308 --> 01:34:02,528
been dismantled or the international courts of justice the icc the international criminal court

1154
01:34:02,528 --> 01:34:10,088
many of them have been hobbled in order to protect Israel, quite frankly,

1155
01:34:10,308 --> 01:34:16,308
and will eventually be dealt severe institutional blows.

1156
01:34:16,668 --> 01:34:19,928
Why? Because it's not really about Israel, it's about the United States.

1157
01:34:20,648 --> 01:34:24,448
The United States is protecting Israel because Israel is doing the U.S.

1158
01:34:24,448 --> 01:34:30,828
and the Western or Anglo establishment, Europe bidding in the region.

1159
01:34:30,828 --> 01:34:37,668
and but things are coming to a head and what i'm talking about is the old order

1160
01:34:37,668 --> 01:34:44,568
and the old order is running up against a new reality and the new reality is we have to make

1161
01:34:44,568 --> 01:34:49,908
a choice whether we're going to have an imagination to create systems that will work for everybody

1162
01:34:49,908 --> 01:34:56,708
rather than a security competition which ultimately becomes a dilemma and that dilemma

1163
01:34:56,708 --> 01:34:58,768
always ends in war historically.

1164
01:34:59,668 --> 01:35:02,028
So do we have a better playbook than this?

1165
01:35:02,088 --> 01:35:04,168
Because that's what we've been running for the last 300 years.

1166
01:35:05,068 --> 01:35:10,448
Well, I mean, I would argue the new order

1167
01:35:10,448 --> 01:35:14,408
is about centralization of power, isn't it?

1168
01:35:14,468 --> 01:35:15,088
Even further.

1169
01:35:15,248 --> 01:35:16,448
I mean, do we ever end?

1170
01:35:16,448 --> 01:35:18,768
Is it possible to head towards, like,

1171
01:35:18,888 --> 01:35:20,608
a lot of people say there'll be a one world government.

1172
01:35:20,928 --> 01:35:23,088
I find that difficult to think through

1173
01:35:23,088 --> 01:35:25,048
when you think about China and America.

1174
01:35:25,048 --> 01:35:36,888
That's the competing world. There's competing orders in the multipolar world, what people are calling a multipolar world with multi-centers of power.

1175
01:35:37,448 --> 01:35:43,808
And BRICS, as an example, as a network of countries, is competing to be part of that multipolar order.

1176
01:35:43,908 --> 01:35:54,568
It doesn't want to dominate the whole planet, but it wants to be able to look after the interests of its members, i.e. Russia, China, India, Brazil, South Africa, and about a dozen other countries.

1177
01:35:54,568 --> 01:36:00,988
and so that's that's competing from a unipolar hegemon which is a u.s dominated

1178
01:36:00,988 --> 01:36:08,728
and in the cold war it was bipolar soviet u.s uh western u.s soviet balance of power so bipolar

1179
01:36:08,728 --> 01:36:14,528
after the second world war unipolar after the collapse of the soviet union and then the potential

1180
01:36:14,528 --> 01:36:21,168
for a multipolar world now but there's people that don't want this and the kicking and screaming all

1181
01:36:21,168 --> 01:36:27,688
the way to the end and i think it will hopefully work itself out but the but the question that we

1182
01:36:27,688 --> 01:36:33,688
have is what damage could be done through that transition i think it'll work itself out eventually

1183
01:36:33,688 --> 01:36:38,908
i think it will i think and and and so will there be a place for decentralized systems

1184
01:36:38,908 --> 01:36:44,648
in in the new order but what damage can be done in the interim and and what who's going to be at

1185
01:36:44,648 --> 01:36:53,728
risk of that, let's say, blast zone in the interim. That's the concern. I truly believe

1186
01:36:53,728 --> 01:36:59,648
that we are going to transition to have better and more options in the future. And that one

1187
01:36:59,648 --> 01:37:04,308
world government that many of us were scared about. In America, you go to the John Birch

1188
01:37:04,308 --> 01:37:10,188
Society, one world government right back to the 1950s. But I think the new world that's

1189
01:37:10,188 --> 01:37:15,408
emerging is much more complex than what we imagine. It's not going to be Klaus Schwab

1190
01:37:15,408 --> 01:37:22,288
giving diktats down the pipeline from the World Economic Forum with Bill Gates behind him funding

1191
01:37:22,288 --> 01:37:28,388
it all. Well, that's good to hear, I must admit. In the same sense that the old world order thought

1192
01:37:28,388 --> 01:37:34,808
Russia would cave under by drawing them into a war, but actually it didn't work at all. That's

1193
01:37:34,808 --> 01:37:39,988
what the old world thinks that's what klaus schwab thinks you know yeah or that's what the

1194
01:37:39,988 --> 01:37:46,148
neocons think or lindsey graham or the warhawks in in washington think or you know or the uh

1195
01:37:46,148 --> 01:37:55,228
the blue rinse brigade you know and boris think you know the um so so really the what's that

1196
01:37:55,228 --> 01:37:59,548
organization that called you a conspiracy theorist network oh many of them but uh right

1197
01:37:59,548 --> 01:38:01,388
They were kind of right.

1198
01:38:01,728 --> 01:38:03,408
I mean, there is a grand conspiracy.

1199
01:38:03,928 --> 01:38:07,388
Power is conspiring to maintain power or whatever it is.

1200
01:38:07,508 --> 01:38:07,708
Yeah.

1201
01:38:08,208 --> 01:38:08,608
It is.

1202
01:38:08,608 --> 01:38:16,808
Do you think there's any legs in the grand conspiracy that it's a number of families?

1203
01:38:17,488 --> 01:38:17,888
Or is that?

1204
01:38:18,308 --> 01:38:19,368
I think for sure.

1205
01:38:20,628 --> 01:38:21,988
Bilderberg is a good example.

1206
01:38:22,168 --> 01:38:23,708
The Bilderberg group meets every year.

1207
01:38:23,808 --> 01:38:25,308
They met in Stockholm, Sweden this year.

1208
01:38:25,308 --> 01:38:29,688
And the host of the Bilderberg was really the Wallenberg family.

1209
01:38:30,148 --> 01:38:45,848
And the Wallenberg family are the owners of Investor AB, a Swedish conglomerate of companies, huge players in defense, telecommunications, one of the most powerful portfolios of companies in Europe.

1210
01:38:45,848 --> 01:38:52,828
and are now playing, you know, very central, have been playing a central role at the European, you know,

1211
01:38:52,968 --> 01:39:00,228
elite transnational corporate and defense and political level for a very long time is an example.

1212
01:39:00,528 --> 01:39:03,168
And that's a family. That's dominated by a family.

1213
01:39:03,168 --> 01:39:11,028
And then we have the same hereditary oligarchies in other countries, including the UK and other countries.

1214
01:39:11,028 --> 01:39:17,648
So it's ultimately, of course, it's going to comprise of families.

1215
01:39:18,548 --> 01:39:21,908
But I mean, the only reason I ask is because it could be states.

1216
01:39:22,728 --> 01:39:28,468
It could be, you know, states rise and fall and leaders rise and fall.

1217
01:39:28,948 --> 01:39:35,428
But the kind of the grand conspiracy theory about the kind of the puppet masters is that it's generational.

1218
01:39:36,848 --> 01:39:38,688
Is that, do you think it's true or not?

1219
01:39:38,688 --> 01:39:52,748
I think the problem with the alternative conspiracy theory community, if you will, or culture, is there's a proclivity to have a unifying conspiracy, like a skeleton key that unlocks all questions.

1220
01:39:53,048 --> 01:39:54,308
That's what I think I've got.

1221
01:39:54,528 --> 01:39:55,388
I'm looking for.

1222
01:39:55,488 --> 01:39:56,548
But you're not alone.

1223
01:39:56,908 --> 01:39:57,448
You're not alone.

1224
01:39:57,588 --> 01:39:59,328
Everyone wants to know who's in charge.

1225
01:39:59,768 --> 01:40:00,688
What's the top look like?

1226
01:40:00,728 --> 01:40:04,528
And the reality is probably a lot more complex lattice of interests.

1227
01:40:05,088 --> 01:40:08,108
The best metaphor is probably organized crime networks.

1228
01:40:08,108 --> 01:40:17,168
it's a very complex international lattice of families and organizations that could just as

1229
01:40:17,168 --> 01:40:23,048
easily be corporations and banks and many of them are into corporations and banks like HSBC

1230
01:40:23,048 --> 01:40:28,228
and so forth that got busted for laundering billions of dollars in Colombian cartel

1231
01:40:28,228 --> 01:40:36,388
cocaine cash as an example but the reality is it's all of those things with state power coalesces

1232
01:40:36,388 --> 01:40:41,568
with ruling families, the committee of 300, if you will,

1233
01:40:42,588 --> 01:40:46,208
because the most powerful organizing principle on the planet

1234
01:40:46,208 --> 01:40:50,268
is still the modern nation state, and they have the military.

1235
01:40:51,088 --> 01:40:54,208
So ultimately the state has power,

1236
01:40:54,328 --> 01:40:58,228
but if the state is under effective control of oligarchs,

1237
01:40:58,228 --> 01:41:00,708
then the oligarchs control that state power.

1238
01:41:01,348 --> 01:41:06,048
Where you have the difference is countries that have, let's say,

1239
01:41:06,388 --> 01:41:11,928
not state-owned banks central banks rather than a private central bank and where the

1240
01:41:11,928 --> 01:41:19,588
oligarch families aren't in charge but maybe a bureaucracy socialist bureaucracy is in charge

1241
01:41:19,588 --> 01:41:24,928
and then we're back to the ideological cold war conversation and so it does come back to that

1242
01:41:24,928 --> 01:41:31,988
so um and we're oscillating constantly oscillating between these things in history we're oscillating

1243
01:41:31,988 --> 01:41:34,728
between the frying pan and the fire, aren't we?

1244
01:41:34,928 --> 01:41:35,068
Yeah.

1245
01:41:35,168 --> 01:41:37,588
Well, where's the utopia that we all want to live in?

1246
01:41:37,628 --> 01:41:38,748
We want to be left alone, right?

1247
01:41:39,048 --> 01:41:42,708
Come on, what's your strategy going forwards in the world?

1248
01:41:43,508 --> 01:41:44,488
Well, you know, yeah.

1249
01:41:44,488 --> 01:41:50,688
I mean, I'm personally, I'm definitely more along that libertarian philosophy

1250
01:41:50,688 --> 01:41:54,708
of small as government as possible,

1251
01:41:55,388 --> 01:41:58,188
not to interfere too much with the market.

1252
01:41:59,148 --> 01:42:01,628
But we don't see that evolving at all, do we?

1253
01:42:01,628 --> 01:42:06,848
Well, we have monopolies and rent seekers that have taken advantage of those opportunities.

1254
01:42:07,748 --> 01:42:10,988
And so think of it like society is like a pendulum.

1255
01:42:11,268 --> 01:42:14,708
I mean, you're British, so you've seen this pendulum swing in your lifetime,

1256
01:42:14,828 --> 01:42:16,648
and your parents have seen it swing too.

1257
01:42:17,408 --> 01:42:20,748
And unfortunately, it swings, and sometimes we don't necessarily,

1258
01:42:20,908 --> 01:42:23,648
not everyone's going to like the direction it's going to be swinging in,

1259
01:42:23,708 --> 01:42:29,648
but there's going to be an inevitable reaction to any situation that's becoming extreme.

1260
01:42:29,648 --> 01:42:37,308
And if you're living in an extreme, rent-sinking, monopolistic political economy, the pendulum will eventually swing.

1261
01:42:37,608 --> 01:42:41,688
And it's going to swing, quote, left in many cases.

1262
01:42:41,688 --> 01:42:55,328
But then it might end up being co-opted and you might end up getting an entrenched fascist socialist or whatever, collectivist, super bureaucracy, technocracy.

1263
01:42:55,328 --> 01:42:59,088
I think that's something that people back home in the UK,

1264
01:42:59,088 --> 01:43:02,468
we both live in the UK, you don't mind me saying that?

1265
01:43:02,468 --> 01:43:14,182
Yeah yeah absolutely I think something that people in the UK don ever contemplate is that something like a communist state could appear in the UK

1266
01:43:14,422 --> 01:43:18,542
Because when you hang around places like we're in Serbia at the moment,

1267
01:43:18,622 --> 01:43:21,622
when you hang around places like this where it's recent,

1268
01:43:21,862 --> 01:43:24,222
or in Prague where we are, it's all recent,

1269
01:43:24,982 --> 01:43:27,262
it's much more real to you,

1270
01:43:27,262 --> 01:43:29,442
even to me as an outsider talking to people

1271
01:43:29,442 --> 01:43:30,842
who've lived through those kind of regimes.

1272
01:43:30,842 --> 01:43:40,862
And you realize just how possible it is for, and, you know, I know there's a lot of people now say the UK has got some very strong tendencies towards authoritarian states.

1273
01:43:41,062 --> 01:43:42,962
We've got people getting arrested for tweets.

1274
01:43:43,082 --> 01:43:46,642
We've got, you know, like some really bizarre things going on.

1275
01:43:46,742 --> 01:43:50,782
And still alarm bells aren't really ringing.

1276
01:43:50,942 --> 01:43:56,522
But authoritarianism and authoritarian structures aren't necessarily left communist authoritarian.

1277
01:43:56,522 --> 01:43:58,382
It can be right-wing authoritarian.

1278
01:43:58,642 --> 01:44:00,762
It can be right-wing corporatist fascist.

1279
01:44:00,842 --> 01:44:06,522
just as easily as the other way. I think you need to look at what's happening in China,

1280
01:44:07,062 --> 01:44:11,622
you look at what's happening in countries like Russia, where you have a state-directed economy,

1281
01:44:12,202 --> 01:44:19,622
but you have a free market for the people, but the political establishment taking the reins of

1282
01:44:19,622 --> 01:44:26,582
key aspects of the economy, but capital can never rise above the state or the party in China's case,

1283
01:44:26,582 --> 01:44:31,422
right the communist party of china the state capital can never if it goes too high if the

1284
01:44:31,422 --> 01:44:38,642
bird flies too high it will its wings will be clipped jack ma alibaba is a good example um so

1285
01:44:38,642 --> 01:44:44,982
and that's the difference but the performance is there because to make those changes and to adapt

1286
01:44:44,982 --> 01:44:50,922
in the ebb and flow of technology and modernity and technological revolutions and changes in

1287
01:44:50,922 --> 01:44:59,382
society and infrastructure and expectations, you need continuity of government. And China has that.

1288
01:45:00,122 --> 01:45:08,202
But they don't have the sort of liberal democracy that we think we have or have. So that's their

1289
01:45:08,202 --> 01:45:12,882
system. They couldn't have done what I think they've done if they had had an open democratic

1290
01:45:12,882 --> 01:45:19,422
system that we could then put our people in and turn them into a neocolonial vassal of Western

1291
01:45:19,422 --> 01:45:25,202
corporate interests and so they they've fortified themselves from that that's why they have a hard

1292
01:45:25,202 --> 01:45:32,322
shell this is why russia has a hard shell because of what happened in the 90s wall street uh neoliberal

1293
01:45:32,322 --> 01:45:38,902
economists raping the country and basically looting it that's why you got putin it was a reaction to

1294
01:45:38,902 --> 01:45:44,842
the 90s yeltsin was drunk wall street came in raped the country the oligarchs ran off with all

1295
01:45:44,842 --> 01:45:50,922
the state uh industry and the people were poor life expectancy for men was like 63 or something

1296
01:45:50,922 --> 01:45:57,502
crazy like that and they said never again that's that's a and so putin came in and and they've

1297
01:45:57,502 --> 01:46:02,562
backed him for 20 something years and look at the results you can't argue with the results

1298
01:46:02,562 --> 01:46:08,102
and that's why he's popular and we that's why our governments hate him they revile him they would

1299
01:46:08,102 --> 01:46:17,442
love to have a 75% approval rating. But we see that, we project our cynicism. We like our 25%

1300
01:46:17,442 --> 01:46:23,622
approval rating presidents like Biden and Macron. And we celebrate that as democracy. And we have

1301
01:46:23,622 --> 01:46:28,522
spitting image puppet shows to make fun of it. And that's our freedom. We've got that. But are

1302
01:46:28,522 --> 01:46:35,122
they performing for us? I don't think they're performing very well. Well, no, the democratic,

1303
01:46:35,122 --> 01:46:43,302
in its current state system is an absolute shit show and it doesn't serve the people i mean it's

1304
01:46:43,302 --> 01:46:49,602
it's it's i think that's the red pill people are taking at the moment because the democracy

1305
01:46:49,602 --> 01:46:55,702
is untouchable it's we fight for democracy religion yeah but it's a load of nonsense

1306
01:46:55,702 --> 01:47:03,582
it doesn't work and and you know currently starmer was voted in on 20 percent of of the country

1307
01:47:03,582 --> 01:47:10,322
that that's not you know like that he's hated and he still got in power yeah he's literally he failed

1308
01:47:10,322 --> 01:47:17,542
like if you if that was an exam result you failed massively but he's in charge yes exactly well is he

1309
01:47:17,542 --> 01:47:24,702
we should celebrate that that's our democracy yeah great but do you think then you know you're

1310
01:47:24,702 --> 01:47:29,762
talking going back to the pendulum and and the really big swinging pendulum not the not the

1311
01:47:29,762 --> 01:47:35,162
little four-year pendulums and stuff the big one which is i think sort of collectivism to

1312
01:47:35,162 --> 01:47:40,762
individualism do you know what i mean like yeah and we're kind of we're collectivism aren't we at

1313
01:47:40,762 --> 01:47:45,222
the moment well the other thing in that pendulum you have to pay attention to it's more than that

1314
01:47:45,222 --> 01:47:52,982
maybe it was that before now we have technology and the state has tools and apparatchi and

1315
01:47:52,982 --> 01:48:02,102
technocratic abilities through Palantir databases, surveillance, digital social credit,

1316
01:48:03,122 --> 01:48:09,662
central bank digital currencies, all this sort of stuff, digital ID. Now that pendulum

1317
01:48:09,662 --> 01:48:16,682
is a very different pendulum. And it does lean towards state. The state has accumulated great

1318
01:48:16,682 --> 01:48:23,902
capabilities and powers to control the individual and also to cut people off to to to contain people

1319
01:48:23,902 --> 01:48:27,342
based on you know their political beliefs or whether they're going to be with the program or

1320
01:48:27,342 --> 01:48:33,882
not or you know whatever very orwellian and so that changes things is it's a different game now

1321
01:48:33,882 --> 01:48:40,922
you're going against much more difficult much less freedom in many ways than ever before that does

1322
01:48:40,922 --> 01:48:46,042
change the discussion a lot what you're describing something we talk about a lot on this podcast is

1323
01:48:46,042 --> 01:48:53,242
the fact that technology is allowing authoritarianism to scale beyond the kind of

1324
01:48:53,242 --> 01:48:57,542
empires that we used to have, which collapsed under the weight of the fact that there literally

1325
01:48:57,542 --> 01:49:03,082
weren't enough people to enforce their rules in the country. They couldn't employ enough people.

1326
01:49:03,622 --> 01:49:07,282
But you don't have that problem now because you don't even need to employ people. You have an

1327
01:49:07,282 --> 01:49:14,322
algorithmic system which exists on your phone and you don't even need a legal system really,

1328
01:49:14,322 --> 01:49:19,042
because all that does is it stops you, it dictates what you can and can't do

1329
01:49:19,042 --> 01:49:20,382
before you even do it.

1330
01:49:20,942 --> 01:49:24,582
So committing crimes becomes much more difficult in a way

1331
01:49:24,582 --> 01:49:30,142
because your ability to operate in the world is dictated by a bunch of rules

1332
01:49:30,142 --> 01:49:32,922
which are already laid on top of you.

1333
01:49:32,922 --> 01:49:37,282
And you're not going to be negotiating with people at different points of the bureaucracy

1334
01:49:37,282 --> 01:49:39,762
where you might get clemency, you might get some sympathy,

1335
01:49:40,242 --> 01:49:42,182
you might get some people give you the benefit of the doubt.

1336
01:49:42,542 --> 01:49:43,762
Those people are disappearing.

1337
01:49:43,762 --> 01:49:44,662
That's already happened.

1338
01:49:44,802 --> 01:49:45,202
It's gone.

1339
01:49:45,482 --> 01:49:50,562
I have that experience continuously when I enter normie world and try and sort something out.

1340
01:49:50,822 --> 01:49:51,022
Yeah.

1341
01:49:51,162 --> 01:49:54,102
Bureaucratic or even with companies these days.

1342
01:49:54,562 --> 01:49:56,222
If I could just talk to a person.

1343
01:49:56,782 --> 01:50:02,722
So, well, let's wind it up, but let's not end on a bad note because that is a bad note.

1344
01:50:03,182 --> 01:50:06,222
Well, no, it is a very bad note, but it's a truthful note.

1345
01:50:06,502 --> 01:50:06,662
Yeah.

1346
01:50:06,662 --> 01:50:13,122
it's a conclusion we've come to on this podcast over many years so far is that technology here's

1347
01:50:13,122 --> 01:50:18,842
here's the way it goes according to us anyway technology is is empowering authoritarians okay

1348
01:50:18,842 --> 01:50:24,962
we know that but like everything there's always an equal and opposite force at work yes and the

1349
01:50:24,962 --> 01:50:33,942
digital world is now rife with people creating privacy and freedom tools right cool this is good

1350
01:50:33,942 --> 01:50:55,942
So, and I, and I'm using them already and you probably are and everyone, if you, if you're in this world, you can use those. The bit that I struggle with is how do we operate in the physical world when it's gate kept by these algorithms in the sense that I wouldn't in, in this, in this dystopian future, I could not come to Serbia.

1351
01:50:55,942 --> 01:51:02,522
how would unless i managed to do a deal with someone who sailed me over to you know and then

1352
01:51:02,522 --> 01:51:06,642
i picked up a car i mean we're talking about you know this is kind of world war one shit where you're

1353
01:51:06,642 --> 01:51:10,522
you're the resistance and you've got to do it all secretly i mean maybe that's where we're heading

1354
01:51:10,522 --> 01:51:16,462
maybe maybe if you want to be free that's that is where we're heading but the mainstream world

1355
01:51:16,462 --> 01:51:23,902
is becoming so ubiquitous and so digitized and so algorithmic sized or if that's a word

1356
01:51:23,902 --> 01:51:31,622
how do you how will you navigate that going forward you're you're i mean if you're in the

1357
01:51:31,622 --> 01:51:37,682
center of the authoritarian structures or those types of countries with those systems as the as

1358
01:51:37,682 --> 01:51:44,462
the law as the rule um that might be difficult uh but then you have to think about relocating to

1359
01:51:44,462 --> 01:51:49,942
either intentional uh communities or parallel communities or countries that aren't in that

1360
01:51:49,942 --> 01:51:55,042
system and you go from there and i think if you do resettle in those places then you probably even

1361
01:51:55,042 --> 01:51:59,682
can go back to the old place and then come back again and not have too much problems but it's

1362
01:51:59,682 --> 01:52:05,882
being anchored in those authoritarian centers that becomes difficult because you can't exist without

1363
01:52:05,882 --> 01:52:12,282
being you know tethered to the system at every single point that's kind of what's happening

1364
01:52:12,282 --> 01:52:18,302
you see that in reality in the truth of community or from what i see people have anchored themselves

1365
01:52:18,302 --> 01:52:23,582
here in the weird side and they do little forays back into them you know

1366
01:52:23,582 --> 01:52:29,942
I'm using the terminology matrix I see what you mean I'm a normal community

1367
01:52:29,976 --> 01:52:35,196
a good example of that. That's global now. Yeah, massively. I mean, it's a sensible,

1368
01:52:35,616 --> 01:52:39,736
it's a very logical thing to do as well. It's difficult with children, but if you're

1369
01:52:39,736 --> 01:52:47,896
a free independent person, it makes huge sense, even from a tax perspective, just from a general

1370
01:52:47,896 --> 01:52:52,736
governance perspective. Being a foreigner in a country makes you really ungovernable.

1371
01:52:52,736 --> 01:52:57,956
It's very difficult. Financial perspective, just cost of living. Immediately you get a 50%

1372
01:52:57,956 --> 01:53:04,056
discount on cost of living in many cases 100 discount in some cases like that's where you live

1373
01:53:04,056 --> 01:53:09,736
insanely cheap there's you and me talking we both live in very settled lives in the uk we should be

1374
01:53:09,736 --> 01:53:15,396
advising ourselves here probably yeah well i mean you have you have uh you know you have had you

1375
01:53:15,396 --> 01:53:20,136
know the little stints outside and i mean i have a long-term plan there's no question about it you've

1376
01:53:20,136 --> 01:53:25,436
experienced that what what it would be like you've had a chance to test yeah and i have we have a

1377
01:53:25,436 --> 01:53:33,556
plan we have a we have a i mean one of one of the plans that i noticed being quite prevalent at the

1378
01:53:33,556 --> 01:53:41,456
moment is in the uk at least people are talking about giving it till the next election right and

1379
01:53:41,456 --> 01:53:46,636
because basically when you think about it on paper there'll be a regime change at the next election

1380
01:53:46,636 --> 01:53:52,276
there must be because never say all right never say never not in british politics if it's if it

1381
01:53:52,276 --> 01:53:57,196
isn't a regime change. And by that, I mean, if it doesn't, if it's not conservative or

1382
01:53:57,196 --> 01:54:02,556
Labour, if it's not one of the new parties, then that's the signal. That's the final bell,

1383
01:54:02,696 --> 01:54:04,116
right? Get out, you know.

1384
01:54:04,256 --> 01:54:07,716
Well, it's going to be a coalition, you see. So you're still going to have one of the old

1385
01:54:07,716 --> 01:54:09,996
parties at some, on some level.

1386
01:54:10,096 --> 01:54:11,956
Might it be a coalition of the new ones though?

1387
01:54:12,636 --> 01:54:16,596
Well, it doesn't matter because there's going to be a, anyway, we don't get into the nuts

1388
01:54:16,596 --> 01:54:20,696
and bolts of it, but think of the Lib Dem, you know, Tory.

1389
01:54:20,696 --> 01:54:21,676
I can't think of Lib Dems.

1390
01:54:21,676 --> 01:54:22,416
I get too depressed.

1391
01:54:22,416 --> 01:54:23,876
2010, David Cameron.

1392
01:54:24,536 --> 01:54:26,516
So, I mean, Nick Clegg, your deputy PM.

1393
01:54:26,516 --> 01:54:30,596
Any stage in history, recent political history in the UK,

1394
01:54:30,736 --> 01:54:31,736
is depressing AF.

1395
01:54:31,916 --> 01:54:33,036
Everything about everything.

1396
01:54:33,696 --> 01:54:36,316
But going back to my plan, which is,

1397
01:54:36,836 --> 01:54:39,416
if one of the new parties gets in,

1398
01:54:39,756 --> 01:54:42,596
you give them six months, like you gave Trump six months.

1399
01:54:43,076 --> 01:54:45,076
Because there is a slim chart.

1400
01:54:45,116 --> 01:54:49,316
I don't think the fundamental things can change.

1401
01:54:49,856 --> 01:54:54,376
I think if you think there's too much immigration, for example, it's too late.

1402
01:54:54,556 --> 01:54:55,376
You're not going to change that.

1403
01:54:55,616 --> 01:54:59,836
If you think they're too authoritarian, that could change.

1404
01:55:00,116 --> 01:55:00,996
That could change.

1405
01:55:01,076 --> 01:55:04,876
I mean, if you think you're being taxed too much, right, that could definitely change.

1406
01:55:05,116 --> 01:55:05,796
That could be something.

1407
01:55:06,116 --> 01:55:08,876
But whether it could change in the long term, I don't think it could.

1408
01:55:08,876 --> 01:55:13,016
Because in order to tax people less, they've got to find the money from somewhere else.

1409
01:55:13,356 --> 01:55:16,696
And they've only got one other option, which is borrowing money.

1410
01:55:17,396 --> 01:55:19,116
Yeah, and back to the immigration thing.

1411
01:55:19,116 --> 01:55:24,716
you can slow down immigration, but you're not really going to alter the demographics currently.

1412
01:55:25,036 --> 01:55:30,316
So the fact that people are kind of campaigning on the issue, I think, is kind of a non-starter.

1413
01:55:31,136 --> 01:55:33,476
The other issues you said, yeah, those are movable.

1414
01:55:34,316 --> 01:55:39,156
But only if the person who's in charge has a radical economic vision

1415
01:55:39,156 --> 01:55:42,736
where they're willing to take the risk and also the heat.

1416
01:55:43,496 --> 01:55:48,036
And just look at that little bit, Liz Truss in her 44 days as PM.

1417
01:55:48,036 --> 01:55:54,716
the little sort of free marketeering that she is a day crushed her so quickly and she was out the

1418
01:55:54,716 --> 01:55:59,096
door that the dirt didn't even get on the rug she was out so fast sometimes though it does take

1419
01:55:59,096 --> 01:56:04,696
people a few goes to get their heads around that stuff i mean she's now doing the rounds of the

1420
01:56:04,696 --> 01:56:10,936
alternative podcast and people are sort of cleverly oh my god she was actually quite you know yeah

1421
01:56:10,936 --> 01:56:15,096
yeah and she's doing the right thing actually she's she's one of the smarter ones in terms of

1422
01:56:15,096 --> 01:56:22,376
embracing new media. So I think, you know, that's kind of like, yeah, but aside from that,

1423
01:56:22,536 --> 01:56:28,096
there's some good people on the left that are talking about economic in more realistic terms.

1424
01:56:28,696 --> 01:56:30,836
And that's interesting. I've never seen that before.

1425
01:56:31,336 --> 01:56:37,376
The problem is, though, within the democratic system, no one is going to risk not being elected.

1426
01:56:38,276 --> 01:56:43,636
That's the risk for a politician now, not to make the country better. It's can I stay in power?

1427
01:56:43,636 --> 01:56:46,336
and staying in power involves giving people free money.

1428
01:56:46,336 --> 01:56:47,276
This is the problem.

1429
01:56:47,276 --> 01:56:52,276
We've, or free money, we live in this system of welfare,

1430
01:56:52,276 --> 01:56:54,236
which is huge, the welfare budget,

1431
01:56:54,236 --> 01:56:56,636
is it something like 30% of the total budget or something?

1432
01:56:56,636 --> 01:56:57,396
It's a lot.

1433
01:56:57,396 --> 01:56:59,216
It's a huge amount, right?

1434
01:56:59,216 --> 01:57:01,856
That can't change because if you pull that,

1435
01:57:01,856 --> 01:57:02,696
you lose all those votes.

1436
01:57:02,696 --> 01:57:17,188
That a risk if you pull that and no one wants to take a risk if you want to get elected Exactly You stake with the same safe formula and that the problem We have that formula Even the new parties would get basically sucked into that format

1437
01:57:17,188 --> 01:57:19,848
when it comes to the campaign.

1438
01:57:20,788 --> 01:57:22,708
So that's always going to be the issue.

1439
01:57:23,028 --> 01:57:25,408
I mean, Britain, all European countries have this problem.

1440
01:57:25,408 --> 01:57:30,388
They have this problem because they're not transitioning, I think,

1441
01:57:30,388 --> 01:57:37,008
well enough to maintain their sort of liberty rights

1442
01:57:37,008 --> 01:57:40,908
and all those great things that I think a lot of people enjoyed

1443
01:57:40,908 --> 01:57:45,168
after the Second World War, along with all the benefits of the NHS

1444
01:57:45,168 --> 01:57:47,328
and the United Kingdom and so forth,

1445
01:57:47,588 --> 01:57:50,548
these great institutions that came as a result of that.

1446
01:57:51,988 --> 01:57:57,508
A lot of what life was like might not be able to be preserved

1447
01:57:57,508 --> 01:58:04,688
in a way I think that you know government's willing to you know give the people a tremendous

1448
01:58:04,688 --> 01:58:10,348
or significant amount of freedom because arguably we have less rights than we we did in many ways

1449
01:58:10,348 --> 01:58:16,008
before well certainly because governments create laws that's what they do they don't they never

1450
01:58:16,008 --> 01:58:21,368
they always create more laws there's always more laws than there was last year isn't it yeah that's

1451
01:58:21,368 --> 01:58:26,248
the job of a bureaucrat is to create laws it's like they they occasionally take some away but

1452
01:58:26,248 --> 01:58:28,288
they never, there's always a net gain in laws.

1453
01:58:28,628 --> 01:58:29,788
So yeah, we do live less free.

1454
01:58:29,788 --> 01:58:34,648
But by the same token, there's also, you know, the progressive tax rates that there were in

1455
01:58:34,648 --> 01:58:36,088
the past, we don't have those.

1456
01:58:36,088 --> 01:58:41,548
And there are more sort of financial opportunities in certain areas, in certain ways.

1457
01:58:42,288 --> 01:58:47,308
Maybe, you know, of course, then we'll get into an ideological and economic conversation

1458
01:58:47,308 --> 01:58:48,548
about what it should be.

1459
01:58:49,048 --> 01:58:50,288
And that's a different discussion.

1460
01:58:50,488 --> 01:58:55,448
Without going too deeply into that, I think that is one of the cruxes of the, certainly

1461
01:58:55,448 --> 01:59:00,728
the problem we see currently in the UK is that there are the two schools of thought. One is,

1462
01:59:00,868 --> 01:59:06,948
I need to manage the economy. I need, you know, as in I'm the government, I need to basically

1463
01:59:06,948 --> 01:59:15,808
control the economy. I need to tax people to pay for me to do this job versus if we let people

1464
01:59:15,808 --> 01:59:22,168
amass themselves and create wealth and be entrepreneurs, then our tax dollars will

1465
01:59:22,168 --> 01:59:26,488
actually be more. It'll be more. Right, exactly. Right. They're the two schools of thought.

1466
01:59:26,728 --> 01:59:32,388
Currently, we're with the former. They don't really, they're trying to tax us harder to get

1467
01:59:32,388 --> 01:59:38,968
more money, and it's actually resulting in less money. And wealth is leaving the country.

1468
01:59:39,108 --> 01:59:45,168
Exactly. Right. It's in Dubai. It's in other places. Yes. So the problem is, again,

1469
01:59:45,168 --> 01:59:48,888
Our democracy is failing on that level.

1470
01:59:49,668 --> 01:59:54,568
So what did Putin do in Russia to bring the oligarchs home?

1471
01:59:55,748 --> 02:00:01,108
Cut the tax rate, flat tax, 13%, cross the board, money comes back.

1472
02:00:01,448 --> 02:00:03,168
It started at 10%.

1473
02:00:03,168 --> 02:00:04,508
10%.

1474
02:00:04,508 --> 02:00:06,848
I mean, what if the British government did that?

1475
02:00:07,028 --> 02:00:08,728
What would happen to all the overseas money?

1476
02:00:08,788 --> 02:00:11,108
Because I know a lot of British that would rather have businesses

1477
02:00:11,108 --> 02:00:15,088
and open restaurant chains in England and employ British people

1478
02:00:15,088 --> 02:00:17,228
and their kids and their nephews and nieces.

1479
02:00:17,348 --> 02:00:18,688
They'd rather do it at home,

1480
02:00:18,688 --> 02:00:21,668
but because there's financial impediments to that,

1481
02:00:22,048 --> 02:00:25,728
there's a lot against them in terms of cost and VAT

1482
02:00:25,728 --> 02:00:26,488
and stuff like that.

1483
02:00:26,908 --> 02:00:27,848
Why bother?

1484
02:00:27,988 --> 02:00:31,388
Dude, it's not even remotely complicated

1485
02:00:31,388 --> 02:00:33,368
how you kickstart the UK again.

1486
02:00:33,588 --> 02:00:34,448
It's so easy.

1487
02:00:35,828 --> 02:00:37,968
As a middle-class business owner,

1488
02:00:37,968 --> 02:00:42,368
I know exactly why I'm not putting my capital in the market.

1489
02:00:42,368 --> 02:00:48,548
and and as as someone who who might leave the country i also know why i want to leave the

1490
02:00:48,548 --> 02:00:53,968
country it's absolutely simple it's not even you don't need to know much about economics you just

1491
02:00:53,968 --> 02:00:59,428
need to leave people to be free you need to cut the restrictions on starting businesses yeah and

1492
02:00:59,428 --> 02:01:05,288
you need to lower the tax rate of the middle class yeah and suddenly it's boom time and cut

1493
02:01:05,288 --> 02:01:10,708
business rates or payroll and all this payroll tax yeah well there's too many things getting in

1494
02:01:10,708 --> 02:01:15,388
way the only big conglomerates can can bird carry the burden of those even

1495
02:01:15,388 --> 02:01:18,748
day because no one's buying their shit anymore even that even they're

1496
02:01:18,748 --> 02:01:23,768
struggling yeah who's buying their stuff yeah I used to go when I was you know

1497
02:01:23,768 --> 02:01:27,208
ten years ago people used to go shopping every weekend yeah and now people go

1498
02:01:27,208 --> 02:01:31,528
buy something off Amazon every now and then but they don't go clothes shopping

1499
02:01:31,528 --> 02:01:34,868
every weekend and spending all this lovely money that they've got no matter

1500
02:01:34,868 --> 02:01:38,728
what European country you go to and I've traveled a little bit in Europe enough

1501
02:01:38,728 --> 02:01:54,220
to see you have people that are on entitlements You have a certain percentage of people that you know are on the dole if you will and so forth mainly my experience in france and uh you know holland and let say the uk and ireland

1502
02:01:54,220 --> 02:02:00,160
but you also have people that are entrepreneurial and innovative and you have a high level human

1503
02:02:00,160 --> 02:02:05,440
capital in that department britain is probably one of the most successful entrepreneurial

1504
02:02:05,440 --> 02:02:12,120
material populations in terms of innovation and smart solutions to things and very quick to pick

1505
02:02:12,120 --> 02:02:18,920
up trends have caught up to the America and the digital innovation after being behind for so long.

1506
02:02:19,060 --> 02:02:24,720
Now they're right up sort of level in terms of skills and corporate innovation and things like

1507
02:02:24,720 --> 02:02:30,120
that. So much so that American companies are, you know, backing startups in Britain now and so forth.

1508
02:02:30,120 --> 02:02:36,900
so and that wasn't the case before it is now so britain of course is very strong in human capital

1509
02:02:36,900 --> 02:02:41,460
but where are all that where are all the innovators going they're leaving they're leaving they're all

1510
02:02:41,460 --> 02:02:46,480
over the world just like all the smart irish uh entrepreneurs are everywhere but ireland

1511
02:02:46,480 --> 02:02:51,580
and you see the same in other european countries you meet frenchmen in china you know you meet

1512
02:02:51,580 --> 02:02:56,300
italians in southeast asia and these these are all the movers and the shakers because they can't

1513
02:02:56,300 --> 02:03:00,760
make any money back back in Europe there's something wrong with the system if the if the

1514
02:03:00,760 --> 02:03:07,920
brain drain is happening today in 2025 how do you reverse the brain drain why is the reason they

1515
02:03:07,920 --> 02:03:15,640
don't do an about turn because there'll be this period of strife in between say say say you wanted

1516
02:03:15,640 --> 02:03:21,780
to adopt some free market principles which would result in more money for literally everyone

1517
02:03:21,780 --> 02:03:26,820
including the government, okay, is the reason they don't and they just carry on down this

1518
02:03:26,820 --> 02:03:33,120
stupendous route of we need to tax people more to make money. Like we need to do higher rates of

1519
02:03:33,120 --> 02:03:38,760
tax, not lower rates of tax, right? Is the reason they do that because if they changed, there would

1520
02:03:38,760 --> 02:03:46,400
be this period of a number of years where they were taxing lower and the whole process hadn't

1521
02:03:46,400 --> 02:03:47,580
kind of get kicked off.

1522
02:03:48,160 --> 02:03:51,840
So they have to sort of weather this bit of the storm, you know.

1523
02:03:52,260 --> 02:03:55,460
See, so, you know, someone like Trump goes,

1524
02:03:55,580 --> 02:03:57,500
and he knows when he spoke to the, you know,

1525
02:03:57,540 --> 02:03:58,840
what he called the business community,

1526
02:03:58,980 --> 02:04:01,220
and Carl Icahn and all these billionaires,

1527
02:04:01,380 --> 02:04:02,800
and he goes, what do you guys want?

1528
02:04:02,860 --> 02:04:03,440
What do you need?

1529
02:04:03,520 --> 02:04:05,640
Okay, this is the tax breaks we're going to do for the rich.

1530
02:04:06,080 --> 02:04:07,600
Of course, the rich bring their money back,

1531
02:04:07,600 --> 02:04:09,000
and then it's being invested in America.

1532
02:04:09,140 --> 02:04:14,420
And that's generally a good plan in America to work to some success.

1533
02:04:14,420 --> 02:04:17,220
the British government would have to kind of do the same.

1534
02:04:17,360 --> 02:04:21,300
It's got to identify people who are overseas and talk to them

1535
02:04:21,300 --> 02:04:26,120
and say, what would you be looking for to bring your operations back home

1536
02:04:26,120 --> 02:04:30,680
and to have residents back in there instead of being wherever else you are?

1537
02:04:30,960 --> 02:04:34,240
And you really need to understand that and then take that leap of faith.

1538
02:04:34,340 --> 02:04:36,340
But this goes back to the thing that we were saying before,

1539
02:04:36,340 --> 02:04:39,020
is people in mainstream politics don't want to do any work

1540
02:04:39,020 --> 02:04:40,640
or take any risks in that department.

1541
02:04:40,780 --> 02:04:41,920
They think they have the tools,

1542
02:04:41,920 --> 02:04:44,620
and they're just using the same tools as before.

1543
02:04:45,440 --> 02:04:47,280
And City of London doesn't mind so much

1544
02:04:47,280 --> 02:04:50,660
because they're financialized instruments

1545
02:04:50,660 --> 02:04:53,760
that they're running and have giant portfolios.

1546
02:04:54,140 --> 02:04:56,700
But we're talking about people in SMEs,

1547
02:04:57,060 --> 02:04:58,420
small to medium-sized businesses

1548
02:04:58,420 --> 02:05:00,580
who could become large businesses one day.

1549
02:05:01,980 --> 02:05:05,260
We're talking about the street and the city.

1550
02:05:05,360 --> 02:05:06,500
These are two different things.

1551
02:05:07,380 --> 02:05:09,200
And so where's the priority with the government?

1552
02:05:09,360 --> 02:05:09,940
It's with the city.

1553
02:05:09,940 --> 02:05:15,360
it's not it's not with the SME sector it's not with the entrepreneur the startup sector it's

1554
02:05:15,360 --> 02:05:19,980
not really about growth because how many people in parliament knew anything about you know starting

1555
02:05:19,980 --> 02:05:24,880
a successful tech startup there's only a few and most have been kicked out of parliament already

1556
02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:33,880
all the smart guys you know we better stop branding it's true it's all true it's all true

1557
02:05:33,880 --> 02:05:35,840
And even the grand conspiracy is true.

1558
02:05:35,960 --> 02:05:43,320
It's just a, it's not as, it's not as, it's a bit more nuanced, would you say?

1559
02:05:43,560 --> 02:05:49,320
But definitely, but, but if you can zoom out far enough from this planet, you'll not only

1560
02:05:49,320 --> 02:05:53,680
realize it's round, but you will realize that there's a geopolitical system happening.

1561
02:05:54,080 --> 02:05:54,960
Is there a flat earth?

1562
02:05:54,960 --> 02:05:55,600
No, no, no.

1563
02:05:56,060 --> 02:05:57,500
We've got some flat earthers in here.

1564
02:05:57,760 --> 02:05:58,140
No, no.

1565
02:05:58,140 --> 02:05:59,200
No, but you're real.

1566
02:05:59,340 --> 02:06:09,020
If you could, you would see that the geopolitical moves are a form of conspiracy because power is conspiring to do things, you know.

1567
02:06:09,180 --> 02:06:13,500
And I mean, you know, because I think it's very hard.

1568
02:06:14,300 --> 02:06:30,152
The conspiracy thing is hard to ignore because it kind of does seem to be true but it just not it just been given a bad taken in a bad light

1569
02:06:30,312 --> 02:06:30,872
Yeah, it is.

1570
02:06:30,952 --> 02:06:34,432
But, you know, how does that affect me on the ground in my world?

1571
02:06:35,052 --> 02:06:35,992
Not so much.

1572
02:06:36,572 --> 02:06:37,832
I mean, it's good to know.

1573
02:06:37,932 --> 02:06:39,852
I mean, if you really want to zoom out, you know,

1574
02:06:39,892 --> 02:06:41,172
there's no borders from space

1575
02:06:41,172 --> 02:06:43,872
and we're just playing some funny games with each other down here

1576
02:06:43,872 --> 02:06:47,532
and making life hard for ourselves most of the time.

1577
02:06:47,532 --> 02:06:55,612
and um but you know i i think yeah i think there's a certain amount of bandwidth you can give to

1578
02:06:55,612 --> 02:07:02,252
you know ruminating on the grand conspiracy but at the end of the day you know that if you spend

1579
02:07:02,252 --> 02:07:08,012
too much time doing that um i think there's you still have to deal with real politic

1580
02:07:08,012 --> 02:07:14,392
in the ebb and flow of day-to-day politics you know i vote because i want i want to at least

1581
02:07:14,392 --> 02:07:20,012
have a minimal amount of skin in the game so that I can criticize or I can argue.

1582
02:07:20,672 --> 02:07:25,572
So that's why I vote, for instance, in the U.S. elections, because otherwise I'm going to say,

1583
02:07:25,692 --> 02:07:26,792
I'm going to criticize the president.

1584
02:07:26,872 --> 02:07:27,492
Well, did you vote?

1585
02:07:27,572 --> 02:07:28,052
Yeah, I did.

1586
02:07:28,332 --> 02:07:30,592
If I didn't, I'd just be some, you know, whatever.

1587
02:07:31,352 --> 02:07:36,652
So, I mean, not that my vote particularly is going to swing any election, but that's the

1588
02:07:36,652 --> 02:07:39,732
main reason, because I want to have skin in the game in the discussion.

1589
02:07:40,252 --> 02:07:41,412
Otherwise, what am I saying?

1590
02:07:41,492 --> 02:07:42,332
Who am I talking to?

1591
02:07:42,332 --> 02:07:45,952
what sort of values am I representing,

1592
02:07:46,292 --> 02:07:48,912
freedom and representative democracy,

1593
02:07:49,312 --> 02:07:51,572
which we are questioning today.

1594
02:07:52,812 --> 02:07:54,132
I was going to say, yeah.

1595
02:07:54,492 --> 02:07:56,432
I thought we'd just taken that one apart.

1596
02:07:56,652 --> 02:07:57,412
Yeah, we did.

1597
02:08:00,172 --> 02:08:02,552
I'm digressing a little bit.

1598
02:08:02,552 --> 02:08:07,552
But yeah, I think we've covered a lot of interesting topics today.

1599
02:08:07,552 --> 02:08:13,712
And I think, and where the intersections are on some of these things.

1600
02:08:15,092 --> 02:08:16,212
Yeah, but it's important.

1601
02:08:16,532 --> 02:08:32,952
It's important because I think, you know, we were talking about it earlier that there's a temptation to adopt a sort of anti, a theory that's an anti-everything theory.

1602
02:08:33,332 --> 02:08:34,492
It's all fucking bullshit.

1603
02:08:34,672 --> 02:08:35,572
It's all a conspiracy.

1604
02:08:35,572 --> 02:08:38,392
because it doesn't look like that in many senses.

1605
02:08:38,532 --> 02:08:40,472
And I think the way you've described it now,

1606
02:08:40,572 --> 02:08:44,112
it kind of does show that there's a truth in that.

1607
02:08:44,532 --> 02:08:44,612
Yeah.

1608
02:08:44,932 --> 02:08:52,552
But then you don't need to necessarily dissolve into it

1609
02:08:52,552 --> 02:08:53,932
and let it take you down

1610
02:08:53,932 --> 02:08:55,172
because it doesn't need to take you down.

1611
02:08:55,252 --> 02:08:55,892
This is stuff.

1612
02:08:55,972 --> 02:08:56,892
This is human nature.

1613
02:08:57,152 --> 02:08:58,132
This is human action.

1614
02:08:58,452 --> 02:08:59,272
This is what it is.

1615
02:08:59,552 --> 02:09:00,412
This is human action.

1616
02:09:00,492 --> 02:09:02,712
These are hierarchies that are all working together.

1617
02:09:03,072 --> 02:09:03,472
Networks.

1618
02:09:03,612 --> 02:09:03,772
Yeah.

1619
02:09:03,772 --> 02:09:05,272
And we're part of it.

1620
02:09:05,272 --> 02:09:06,092
We're part of it.

1621
02:09:06,452 --> 02:09:07,832
And we build our own networks.

1622
02:09:08,032 --> 02:09:10,472
And again, back to, if you want to end on a positive note,

1623
02:09:10,952 --> 02:09:14,212
any civilization that's hit the wall, any empire that's hit the wall,

1624
02:09:14,412 --> 02:09:18,452
there's always been break-off civilizations out of that falling empire,

1625
02:09:19,012 --> 02:09:20,772
out of that collapsing civilization.

1626
02:09:20,992 --> 02:09:25,772
Always break-off civilizations or parallel civilizations.

1627
02:09:26,172 --> 02:09:27,552
And it's always been the case.

1628
02:09:28,292 --> 02:09:31,312
So that has happened in every single instance in history.

1629
02:09:31,772 --> 02:09:32,712
Every single instance.

1630
02:09:32,932 --> 02:09:34,492
And that's going to happen here.

1631
02:09:34,492 --> 02:09:48,152
In fact, this is what this event is, and this is what other events are in these other communities and Bitcoin community and so forth, is kind of a breakaway civilization off the old order in a way.

1632
02:09:49,672 --> 02:09:50,792
And yeah, it's a fight.

1633
02:09:50,912 --> 02:09:55,352
You've got to fight to keep it independent, keep it decentralized.

1634
02:09:55,992 --> 02:09:59,572
Because they're going to fight to centralize it.

1635
02:09:59,812 --> 02:10:00,652
No doubt.

1636
02:10:00,792 --> 02:10:01,432
Expect it.

1637
02:10:01,932 --> 02:10:02,992
Freedom is not granted.

1638
02:10:02,992 --> 02:10:03,992
100%.

1639
02:10:03,992 --> 02:10:05,892
Well, look, Patrick, thanks, mate.

1640
02:10:06,132 --> 02:10:07,192
I really appreciate this.

1641
02:10:07,252 --> 02:10:07,932
I really enjoyed it.

1642
02:10:07,992 --> 02:10:10,652
I'm not sure I will remember everything you just told me,

1643
02:10:11,312 --> 02:10:17,072
but what has helped me to think about things in a much more coherent way,

1644
02:10:17,472 --> 02:10:18,912
that's assuming it's all true, of course.

1645
02:10:19,132 --> 02:10:23,352
I'm not doubting that you're not being truthful,

1646
02:10:23,612 --> 02:10:24,832
but many thanks for speaking.

1647
02:10:25,132 --> 02:10:28,372
And I would love to do this another time sometime.

1648
02:10:29,152 --> 02:10:30,412
I'm glad to have met you.

1649
02:10:30,492 --> 02:10:31,712
You're a fellow Brit.

1650
02:10:31,712 --> 02:10:34,192
well you're a limey

1651
02:10:34,192 --> 02:10:38,092
and you don't live too far away

1652
02:10:38,092 --> 02:10:40,632
so I'd definitely like to do this again sometime

1653
02:10:40,632 --> 02:10:41,672
when things are moving on

1654
02:10:41,672 --> 02:10:43,152
yeah I'll enjoy it

1655
02:10:43,152 --> 02:10:43,952
anytime

1656
02:10:43,952 --> 02:10:44,912
thank you

1657
02:11:01,712 --> 02:11:31,692
Thank you.