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Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast

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of the Free Cities Foundation.

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Hello and welcome to this episode number 163 of the Free Cities podcast.

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Welcome indeed to this, the first show of the wonderful year of 2026.

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And let me say something before we go on for the record.

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I believe 2026 is going to be a monumental year for the Free Cities ecosystem.

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You heard it here first and you will be hearing everything Free Cities right here.

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As always, every week, as we have been doing for the last 163 weeks, that's over three years, people,

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the Free Cities podcast has been at the beating heart of this phenomenal movement that we're all part of.

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And I'm here for 2026. And here's a good segue. You know who else has been here?

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Well, Veritas Villages, of course, they're building off grid, freedom oriented communities in Latin America.

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And these communities will no doubt appeal to you if you're a freedom lover looking to live amongst like minded individuals in places like Nicaragua, Panama, Costa Rica.

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and if you're a Bitcoiner, which I know many, many of you are, you can buy your property with Bitcoin.

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You can spend Bitcoin at communities and they can even help you mine Bitcoin with the excess energy

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that your home will inevitably produce. Maybe 2026 is the year you get a plan B option in Central

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america or a plan a option as many have already done www.veritasvillages.com forward slash free

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cities for more info and say we sent you right today's guest it's a gentleman by the name of

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yaron brook he's an israeli-american author and commentator best known as the long-time chairman

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of the Ayn Rand Institute and a prominent advocate of objectivism. Right, my ever-present

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AI assistant has revealed Yaron Brook joins the podcast to argue the real political divide is not

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left v right, but collectivism versus individualism, and that freedom depends on a coherent moral

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framework rooted in reason and individual rights. He critiques modern politics, warns that both

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camps have converged on statism and explores how cultural decay precedes political decay

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with technology and ai amplifying both control and resistance there you go easing you into 2026

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and don't forget 2026 is the year that the free cities conference is moving to prosperer secure

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your tickets as soon as you can that's my advice at least we know that we will have less room in

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Honduras than at Empire Hall in Prague and this event will no doubt sell out so start looking at

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travel and accommodation options right now that's what people do isn't it in January

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sitting on the couch booking your summer holiday anyway value for value listeners

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Many thanks to you all. I trust you're enjoying your early access to all our episodes and your bonus episodes and shout outs and comments, etc, etc.

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I will, in fact, start reading out comments again next week when I'm back to publishing episodes week by week instead of queuing up a bunch whilst I take a break over the festive season.

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please if you can make it one of your 2026 resolutions to hit the review button on your

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podcast app especially if you're listening on apple pods we have a uniquely small number of

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reviews on that platform for some reason right time for the convo and i urge you to listen

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not for comfort or affirmation, but to judge the ideas by reason, ask whether they serve your life

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and reject everything that demands your unearned sacrifice. Or at least that's what I think

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Ein might say. If not, well, you can just sit back, relax and enjoy my conversation with Jaron Brook.

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My opinion on Trump is that all politicians are terrible, pretty much.

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And that would be where I would start from.

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So I'm already not very, very enamored by any of them, let alone him.

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I agree completely. I just think some are much worse than others.

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Really? So without a political stance,

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you could say that the Republican candidate, as in Trump,

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is worse than the Democrat candidate?

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I think from a long-term perspective,

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if you think about strategy long-term,

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where America's heading, yes,

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because I think that he is accelerating

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the move towards authoritarianism

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in a way that I don't think a Democrat

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could get away with.

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I think he can get away with stuff

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that a Democrat could never get away with.

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Oh, that's interesting.

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You know, imagine if Biden or Kamala Harris

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or whoever, a Democrat,

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decided to take a 10% share in Intel.

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People would be screaming socialism and we can't do that and it's against the constitution and stop it.

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And they would have to backtrack.

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Trump now has taken positions for the U.S. government in half a dozen companies and is planning to do much more of that.

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No Democrat could get away with that.

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But what's interesting about that is that the general – this is my interpretation from looking in from the other side.

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But what I see is that Republicans would think that actually the authoritarians are the Democrats.

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Of course.

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Yeah.

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The Democrats think the authoritarians are the Republicans.

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Yeah.

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And they're both authoritarians.

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But me as a neutral person, I think the Democrats are the authoritarians.

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I think they're both authoritarians.

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I think right now the Republicans are worse.

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You didn't have federal agents armed to the teeth with masks on roaming the streets of America looking for people with brown skin to take into custody and ask them if they have an ID.

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Since when can you stop a person in the middle of the street in America and demand an ID and proof of citizenship?

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If that's not authoritarianism, I don't know what is.

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And that can only happen with a Republican.

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Do you think Trump's a collectivist then?

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No, because Trump is not an ideologue. Trump is a empty vessel. He is a thug. He's like a mafia boss. And he knows what he has to say in order to be elected. And then he does stuff on whim, whatever he feels like he does. There's no ideology. There's no purpose other than self-gratification. He's a complete narcissist.

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Maybe that's a more honest politician. I mean, really, when you think of the political, you know, kind of spectrum, they're all really thugs in disguise, aren't they? They're all kind of forcing you to pay the money to stop putting you in prison.

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To some extent yes But some of them have an ideology You can like it or hate it but they have an ideology When they lie they feel a little embarrassed about lying There still a standard of truth out there There no such thing with Trump He not embarrassed by lying He relishes lying He will say and do whatever it takes to

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get his, I think, agenda, which is based on whim, passed. So there's no principles. There's no

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guiding idea. And look, all politicians, their ideologies are awful. But if your enemy is an

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ideology, you know how to fight it, right? You come up with a better ideology. There's no way

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to fight Trump because he doesn't believe in anything. The weird thing is, though, I understand

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Trump more. Like when I think back to when he was up against Hillary, sorry, yes. I knew how to deal

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with Trump, but Hillary, they both lied through their teeth constantly, right? But somehow with

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Trump, I knew he was lying. And it was like, okay, so I know to take that with a grain of salt,

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whereas I felt like the other side were lying in more devious ways. I felt like Trump was just like,

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yeah, it's obvious he's lying. Because he doesn't care. But there's something really rotten about a

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soul that lies and doesn't care. At least I want them to feel a little guilty when they lie. I want

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them to feel a little bad about themselves when they lie. And Trump really does not care. And

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And there's something really, really bad about that.

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And because of that, look, Trump doesn't care about the Constitution.

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He doesn't even give it lip service.

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The others at least give it lip service.

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And I'd rather a politician give it lip service because then they will listen to the courts and they will actually in some margin try to follow it.

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Trump will do whatever he thinks works in order to gain whatever short-term goal he has.

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What would Ayn Rand say about that though?

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Ayn, wouldn't she be

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Wouldn't she like the fact that he was

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He was thinking of himself a little bit

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No, because I don't think he's thinking of himself

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So Ayn's view of selfishness was something

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You know, very specific

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It was about using reason to guide your life

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And make your life the best that it can be

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Trump has no conception of reason

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He has no conception of rational thought

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she despised people who lived by whim

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or lived by just emotional gratification

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or narcissism

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she was anti-Narcticism

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so no, I don't want to speak fine rant

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she was a genius

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and she always had unusual ideas

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but I find it hard to believe

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that she wouldn't despise him

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Talking to Vine

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she is a genius, I agree

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I was just thinking earlier

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and scribbling a few things down,

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thinking about what she's written about

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and what's actually happening in the world now.

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And it's really quite astonishing, really.

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You think about, you know, the major people,

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Atlas Shrugged, obviously everyone knows,

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society's collapsing under a bureaucratic, you know, quagmire.

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And now you've got the productive innovators withdrawing,

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you know, which is kind of, we see that happening, right?

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You know, sorry, I'm just going to say I'm all,

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because they're all so relevant now you know fountainhead's the same as individualism

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resistance to the group think you know we're seeing we're seeing what ein said and wrote about

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playing out in real life and especially atlas shrugged for the free cities crowd

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um we we we really do feel this one because the the innovators are withdrawing their talent really

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from the pool of talent on purpose to look for a better place, you know.

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And I mean, I think a lot of them are inspired by Galt's Gulch

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and the idea of withdrawing and the idea of not giving your sanction

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to the bad guys anymore and not having to pay into a system

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that is out to destroy you.

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And yeah, I mean, she was, it's unbelievable.

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But if you think about it, she was getting questions like,

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this is happening right now in the 1970s.

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The 1970s were a pretty bleak period from a freedom perspective.

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The UK was brutally socialist.

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It was worse than it is today.

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Arguably on many fronts, the United States was, you know, we had stagflation as most of Europe did.

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And crime rates were much higher than they are today.

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And in many respects, it was worse than it is now.

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And people, again, same kind of phenomenon.

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And then we had, I remember the financial crisis.

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Everybody came to me and said, you're on, it's happening now.

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You know, Atlas Shrug, people used to talk about going gold.

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Are you talking about 2008?

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Yeah, 2008, 2009.

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So you got it again then and you're getting it again now, COVID certainly.

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And I think Atlas Shrug will keep happening to us and keep getting worse every time as long as we don't learn the lessons from it.

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And the lessons are not just political.

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They're primarily philosophical.

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Okay.

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So what would it take to learn the lessons then?

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I mean, I was born in the 70s.

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I don't know a huge amount about it.

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I was in 1971, so I did my first years in the UK.

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And sure, I remember Thatcher.

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I remember when it changed to Thatcher,

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but I didn't even know what socialism was then,

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and I wouldn't be able to tell you.

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It was bad.

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I was born in the 60s, so I was 61,

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so I was already around in the 70s.

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But all you have to do is look back at the data,

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Look at the stats.

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Look at inflation.

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Look at the crime rates.

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Look at pictures of London.

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London was filthy.

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The buildings were filthy.

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It was an ugly place.

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People were really unpleasant.

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You'd walk into a store in London and they'd say, what do you want?

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Really?

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Yeah.

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How do you know that, though?

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Did you go to that?

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I mean, I lived in London in the 60s for a little while and then as a kid.

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And then I've traveled quite a bit.

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And then Thatcher changed that.

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Today you go into London and they treat you like a human being in a store.

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Like, how can I help you?

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And that's very American.

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It's not British at all.

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And that changed.

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You see, freedom changes people.

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When everything is socialist, everything is run by the state, everything you look to big brother to hand to you, there's a lot of resentment.

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People view it as a zero-sum game.

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How come you're walking into my store?

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you know yeah you're just forcing me to work now i was i was laying around here and that still

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happens on aeroplot today but you can't fly aeroplot at the moment but it's russian because

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it's russia yeah but the disdain that you get walking onto the plane is outrageous i've never

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thought of it as a socialist thing you're absolutely right though it is i just thought

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that was just countries pissing people off but no it's just it's a very much a status thing it's a

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you call it socialism call it fascism but it's a status thing it's when you look to the government

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Your life is not yours.

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You've got nothing to look forward to.

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You're not pursuing your own life, your own values.

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Everything is a burden.

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Other people are burdened.

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It's a zero-sum world.

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If they have money, you don't, right?

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They must have taken it from somewhere.

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They took it from you.

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So it's a very malevolent view of the world.

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Socialism breeds that.

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It creates that.

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I grew up in Israel when Israel was socialist.

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And very much that was the attitude.

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And Israel has changed so much by relatively liberating its economy, starting at around the same time Thatcher did in the very late 70s, early 80s.

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And Israel's economy today is unrecognizable in terms of the Israel I grew up in.

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And, of course, they're much richer.

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they're much more entrepreneurial

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and they're much happier

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much happier and much more benevolent

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versus the malevolence of socialism

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socialism is a very

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it destroys the human soul

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something I've

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ended up talking about on this podcast quite a bit

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is noticing

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like guys

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we come to kind of Eastern Europe type places quite a lot for the free cities you know things So you end up speaking to a lot of people who have a direct memory of socialism

230
00:16:47,076 --> 00:16:54,656
And everything that you end up speaking about sort of, you know, starts seeping into your being, let's say.

231
00:16:54,656 --> 00:17:00,836
And then recently I've started noticing this same stuff in my own country.

232
00:17:01,016 --> 00:17:02,156
And it's quite disturbing.

233
00:17:02,156 --> 00:17:09,436
And one of the main ones is just how riddled everything is with rules and how more and more rules.

234
00:17:09,636 --> 00:17:17,436
And one time I looked into some of the most stupid rules you get, you got in communist, you know, like Russia.

235
00:17:17,636 --> 00:17:19,396
And it was you can't wear jeans.

236
00:17:19,676 --> 00:17:21,776
Your hair had to be a certain length, blah, blah, blah.

237
00:17:21,916 --> 00:17:25,876
But, you know, things like that.

238
00:17:25,876 --> 00:17:31,496
And like in the UK, an example was a friend of mine who basically had bought something off Amazon.

239
00:17:31,496 --> 00:17:36,656
it was delivered to his door and he had to show his passport to receive it because it was some

240
00:17:36,656 --> 00:17:40,916
good and the guy said no i don't want to give you my passport just give me my and and then he ended

241
00:17:40,916 --> 00:17:45,956
up sending the parcel away it got that bad because this guy's saying i can't do it because i have to

242
00:17:45,956 --> 00:17:50,316
get your passport and the other guy's saying you don't need my passport to receive a this is me

243
00:17:50,316 --> 00:17:55,116
but it was it was about putting something so it goes through custom no but it was about being over

244
00:17:55,116 --> 00:18:00,776
18 yeah this guy he's like a 58 year old guy saying look i'm over 18 all right it's like no

245
00:18:00,776 --> 00:18:04,696
but I need to put it into the system and I need to take a photo.

246
00:18:04,896 --> 00:18:06,416
And he's a real privacy now as well.

247
00:18:06,496 --> 00:18:07,556
So it was a big deal for him.

248
00:18:07,636 --> 00:18:11,436
But it's those things that piss you off.

249
00:18:11,736 --> 00:18:18,836
And they're symptoms of, I would say it's late stage kind of communism type things.

250
00:18:19,056 --> 00:18:20,036
Would you, what do you think?

251
00:18:20,336 --> 00:18:22,096
Well, I don't think we live under communism.

252
00:18:22,256 --> 00:18:25,596
So I wouldn't call it late stage communism, but it's, it's statism.

253
00:18:25,756 --> 00:18:26,416
This is what happens.

254
00:18:26,416 --> 00:18:26,656
Sorry.

255
00:18:26,776 --> 00:18:26,896
Yeah.

256
00:18:27,056 --> 00:18:27,496
Statism.

257
00:18:27,496 --> 00:18:31,136
This is what happens when the state has as much power as it does today.

258
00:18:31,416 --> 00:18:35,096
And sadly, I think things are going to get a lot worse before they get any better.

259
00:18:35,296 --> 00:18:40,316
I don't see a path for things to move in the right direction.

260
00:18:41,496 --> 00:18:46,056
But as the state grows, it wants more and more and more power.

261
00:18:46,576 --> 00:18:49,036
It wants to intervene more and more and more in your life.

262
00:18:49,136 --> 00:18:54,176
I think some of the scariest stuff going on in the UK right now is the fact that you can be arrested for a tweet.

263
00:18:54,916 --> 00:18:59,176
You can be arrested for saying something that offended somebody.

264
00:19:00,196 --> 00:19:02,636
This is the land of free speech, right?

265
00:19:02,676 --> 00:19:07,276
This is the land that invented the concept of free speech, and it's gone.

266
00:19:07,576 --> 00:19:08,396
There is no free speech.

267
00:19:08,456 --> 00:19:13,896
I mean, I worry about going and speaking in the UK because some of the things that I've

268
00:19:13,896 --> 00:19:17,736
said in the past in the UK would probably get me in trouble today.

269
00:19:17,856 --> 00:19:18,896
I might be kicked out of the country.

270
00:19:18,956 --> 00:19:19,316
Who knows?

271
00:19:19,396 --> 00:19:19,796
I don't know.

272
00:19:20,396 --> 00:19:21,316
We're going to test it.

273
00:19:21,636 --> 00:19:22,576
So we'll see.

274
00:19:22,576 --> 00:19:33,256
But I mean, some of the stories I read are just out of socialist Eastern Europe, not classical liberal United Kingdom.

275
00:19:33,936 --> 00:19:35,716
No, I 100% agree with that.

276
00:19:36,296 --> 00:19:43,616
And whilst I think about it a lot, there is an element of me which is just come at me, bro.

277
00:19:43,616 --> 00:19:51,956
And I think really it's getting to that point where, I mean, we had a couple of examples recently, which were quite high profile.

278
00:19:52,576 --> 00:19:55,496
And the absurdity of it came out.

279
00:19:55,816 --> 00:19:57,716
I think it was the guy, forget his name.

280
00:19:57,836 --> 00:19:58,436
It was an author.

281
00:19:58,896 --> 00:20:04,556
I think he was men, trans women can't be men or something.

282
00:20:04,656 --> 00:20:05,396
It was one of those things.

283
00:20:06,116 --> 00:20:08,676
And they got him at the airport on the way in.

284
00:20:09,536 --> 00:20:11,976
But then he just, he did it the right way.

285
00:20:11,976 --> 00:20:12,856
He took it public.

286
00:20:13,316 --> 00:20:18,976
And I think the funny thing is, and this is another symptom of these kind of status places,

287
00:20:18,976 --> 00:20:22,136
is what people think and what they say out loud

288
00:20:22,136 --> 00:20:23,776
are two completely different things.

289
00:20:24,216 --> 00:20:25,476
Yes, because they're afraid.

290
00:20:25,916 --> 00:20:27,316
And there's reason to be afraid.

291
00:20:27,476 --> 00:20:29,416
But this is the problem I see in Europe.

292
00:20:29,876 --> 00:20:33,816
There is a backlash against some of the left's craziness.

293
00:20:34,876 --> 00:20:38,036
But the backlash is not from the perspective of freedom.

294
00:20:39,076 --> 00:20:42,976
The backlash is from the perspective of kind of a different collectivism,

295
00:20:43,696 --> 00:20:45,176
a different type of statism.

296
00:20:45,176 --> 00:20:53,556
So it's not like, was it Nigel Farage as a reform party in the UK is a pro-liberty political party.

297
00:20:53,636 --> 00:20:54,296
It is not.

298
00:20:54,756 --> 00:20:55,696
It is not.

299
00:20:55,916 --> 00:20:57,676
And it's got its economic policy.

300
00:20:57,756 --> 00:21:01,936
It's a very socialist, as is Marie Le Pen in France.

301
00:21:02,176 --> 00:21:04,316
Economic policies, she agrees with the socialists.

302
00:21:04,396 --> 00:21:05,436
More as she does with Macron.

303
00:21:06,956 --> 00:21:10,816
AFD in Germany is a socialist economic policies.

304
00:21:11,216 --> 00:21:12,296
So yes, they hate immigrants.

305
00:21:12,856 --> 00:21:13,176
Okay.

306
00:21:14,096 --> 00:21:16,076
They give lip service to free speech.

307
00:21:16,116 --> 00:21:18,216
Whether they really believe in it, I don't think so.

308
00:21:19,016 --> 00:21:24,156
And they claim to be against the left, but are you really against the left when you embrace

309
00:21:24,156 --> 00:21:25,416
many of their policies ultimately?

310
00:21:26,176 --> 00:21:29,376
So I worry about this false alternative that we've created.

311
00:21:29,496 --> 00:21:30,516
There's a left and a right.

312
00:21:31,416 --> 00:21:34,656
Both are basically today arguing the same thing.

313
00:21:34,656 --> 00:21:38,596
If we go back to Trump, Trump's a socialist when it comes to economics.

314
00:21:38,816 --> 00:21:40,576
I mean, he's a central planner.

315
00:21:41,536 --> 00:21:43,536
Tariffs are a leftist agenda.

316
00:21:43,756 --> 00:21:46,796
Fair trade is a concept the left came up with.

317
00:21:48,096 --> 00:21:49,256
Tariffs are tax.

318
00:21:49,436 --> 00:21:52,936
He prides himself on raising more revenue through tariffs.

319
00:21:53,276 --> 00:21:57,396
Since when has a Republican prided himself on raising more revenue by tax increases?

320
00:21:58,196 --> 00:22:01,216
And then he takes equity positions in companies.

321
00:22:01,676 --> 00:22:04,376
He tells them who they can employ and who they can't employ.

322
00:22:04,956 --> 00:22:09,836
Even his anti-immigration stance is ultimately a leftist stance because the left,

323
00:22:09,836 --> 00:22:13,896
when it was run by the unions was very anti-immigration, right?

324
00:22:14,216 --> 00:22:23,156
So we've got two political parties today who basically are statists, leftists in important

325
00:22:23,156 --> 00:22:27,696
ways, and they both don't care about our individual freedom.

326
00:22:27,816 --> 00:22:28,756
They don't care about liberty.

327
00:22:28,896 --> 00:22:30,336
They certainly don't care about free speech.

328
00:22:31,056 --> 00:22:39,076
And I just see politics now more than ever, at least since World War II, as significantly

329
00:22:39,076 --> 00:22:42,436
eroding our individual liberties over the next few years.

330
00:22:42,456 --> 00:22:43,996
And I see no counter voice, right?

331
00:22:44,096 --> 00:22:47,356
So where are the champions of freedom?

332
00:22:47,556 --> 00:22:48,736
Where are the champions of liberty?

333
00:22:48,856 --> 00:22:51,876
Where are the free market economists railing against this?

334
00:22:51,876 --> 00:22:54,436
There's some, but it's just there's no Milton Friedman.

335
00:22:54,556 --> 00:22:55,376
There's no Hayek.

336
00:22:55,476 --> 00:22:56,156
There's no Mises.

337
00:22:56,316 --> 00:23:00,516
And there's certainly no Ayn Rand out there gathering, you know, tens of thousands of

338
00:23:00,516 --> 00:23:03,336
people or hundreds of thousands or millions of people for a cause of liberty.

339
00:23:03,756 --> 00:23:05,156
That just isn't there.

340
00:23:05,156 --> 00:23:11,476
I've got anecdotal evidence there might be, which is me going down my local village pub.

341
00:23:12,216 --> 00:23:20,716
And just speaking to people about these things and realizing that for the first time, like what you say about the state, absolutely true.

342
00:23:21,396 --> 00:23:29,136
But in the UK, the idea that the state exists is literally universally accepted and just in the background.

343
00:23:29,356 --> 00:23:30,976
It's like the neutral position.

344
00:23:31,396 --> 00:23:33,236
The neutral position is the state exists.

345
00:23:33,236 --> 00:23:33,956
The state does exist.

346
00:23:33,956 --> 00:23:34,196
Right.

347
00:23:34,196 --> 00:23:39,436
Yeah, yeah, but I mean the state has the power to do what it does and it should it should do that right?

348
00:23:39,436 --> 00:23:43,756
Okay, people just believe that right people just believe that from and that's the neutral position

349
00:23:44,016 --> 00:23:46,016
but what I've noticed anecdotally is

350
00:23:47,136 --> 00:23:49,416
Some people like in my world

351
00:23:49,916 --> 00:23:52,276
We've all been down this journey on this journey

352
00:23:52,276 --> 00:23:56,956
So I kind of know the steps that you go through and I'm noticing normal people in the pub

353
00:23:57,436 --> 00:24:03,856
Having that first thought hmm, you know, I mean I know where it goes and I know how to pull on the thread a little bit

354
00:24:03,856 --> 00:24:07,376
And then I just let it go, you know, and like, oh, good sort of friends should.

355
00:24:07,576 --> 00:24:09,436
I mean, that is, that's great.

356
00:24:09,556 --> 00:24:10,636
I mean, I'm glad you're noticing it.

357
00:24:10,696 --> 00:24:17,496
I worry about the fact, you know, so I thought I noticed that during the Tea Party in the early 20-teens.

358
00:24:17,496 --> 00:24:27,176
There seemed to be this big momentum in America around real freedom, going back to the Constitution and, you know, really admiring the founding fathers and all that.

359
00:24:27,716 --> 00:24:28,896
And that is gone.

360
00:24:29,256 --> 00:24:30,776
It just disappeared like that.

361
00:24:30,876 --> 00:24:32,956
It got completely funneled into Trump.

362
00:24:33,496 --> 00:24:41,576
It got completely perverted into somebody who never mentions his founding fathers, has never read the Constitution, has no concept of what it is even though he's president.

363
00:24:42,296 --> 00:24:50,616
And it's surprising because it's not very well educated, because it's not very well grounded.

364
00:24:50,976 --> 00:25:08,054
It easy how that gets perverted into a status ultimately a status agenda that makes them feel good But it not an agenda of freedom and liberty So I hate to be the pessimist here and I generally am optimistic but I just found the last few

365
00:25:08,054 --> 00:25:15,714
years, I just find it difficult to see a path out of the mess we are. And partially, it's because I

366
00:25:15,714 --> 00:25:24,214
don't see political leaders, but even big named intellectual leaders who are resonating with the

367
00:25:24,214 --> 00:25:30,934
public. See, Margaret Thatcher didn't come out of a vacuum. There was a whole process in the UK

368
00:25:30,934 --> 00:25:37,094
going on. There were think tanks, and Hayek influenced her, and there were people speaking

369
00:25:37,094 --> 00:25:44,154
out about these things, and very articulate and very vocal. I don't see that right now.

370
00:25:44,294 --> 00:25:48,534
Right now, the voices are just, I'm on the right, I hate the left, I'm on the left, I hate the right.

371
00:25:48,534 --> 00:25:53,474
We really share a very similar agenda, but we hate each other, and that's all that matters.

372
00:25:53,474 --> 00:25:59,494
And I see very little intellectual really engagement with the ideas of liberty, the ideas of freedom.

373
00:25:59,874 --> 00:26:02,614
Even just at the economics level, where's Milton Friedman?

374
00:26:03,014 --> 00:26:08,594
Milton Friedman had a real stage in the 70s and 80s.

375
00:26:08,934 --> 00:26:14,994
And while I disagree with Friedman on some things, I mean, he was a powerful voice for economic freedom.

376
00:26:14,994 --> 00:26:17,434
And I think was to some extent him.

377
00:26:17,434 --> 00:26:26,994
Rand, Hayek, Mises were responsible for Thatcher and Reagan being successful to the extent that they were in the short run.

378
00:26:27,054 --> 00:26:27,854
I don't think they were successful.

379
00:26:27,854 --> 00:26:29,754
Long run, in the short run, they were successful.

380
00:26:31,254 --> 00:26:42,834
I was listening to your talk earlier, and one of the things you mentioned was that, and this is where I get pessimistic as well, I think, is that not many people actually appear to want freedom.

381
00:26:43,174 --> 00:26:43,614
Right.

382
00:26:44,434 --> 00:26:45,834
And I kind of agree with that.

383
00:26:45,834 --> 00:26:49,854
I think that's a part of the process of, that's one of the journeys I've been on.

384
00:26:49,974 --> 00:26:53,074
When you first think about these things, you just want, I want everyone to be free.

385
00:26:53,794 --> 00:26:56,154
And then you might go too far the other way.

386
00:26:56,234 --> 00:26:57,754
I just want me to be free.

387
00:26:58,154 --> 00:27:01,934
And then it sort of levels out at my family, my friends.

388
00:27:02,174 --> 00:27:05,974
And then you realize it's about 15 or 20% of the population.

389
00:27:05,974 --> 00:27:08,634
And then you look around, you think that's probably about right, actually.

390
00:27:10,034 --> 00:27:12,254
So I'm with you on that.

391
00:27:12,254 --> 00:27:17,374
Yeah. But also the left and right thing that you just mentioned as well.

392
00:27:18,034 --> 00:27:33,114
I think that's a function in this day and age as much as anything of the Internet and the way the Internet operates and the way the Internet works on your mind and the way that the technology we interact with now basically wants that.

393
00:27:33,534 --> 00:27:37,334
It kind of wants that. So it's a forcing function to sort of make that happen.

394
00:27:37,334 --> 00:27:41,214
It radicalizes and it makes everything much faster, right?

395
00:27:41,354 --> 00:27:43,814
So ideas, they get out there much faster.

396
00:27:43,874 --> 00:27:44,674
But this is the thing.

397
00:27:45,154 --> 00:27:49,814
Why isn't the internet going viral on ideas of freedom, right?

398
00:27:49,954 --> 00:27:53,394
So there's something more fundamental than the internet going on.

399
00:27:53,434 --> 00:27:59,714
And that is a fundamental erosion in the basic values that are necessary for people to want to be free.

400
00:28:00,494 --> 00:28:02,674
And it's what I mentioned in my talk.

401
00:28:02,714 --> 00:28:05,094
I think there's a lack of respect for reason.

402
00:28:05,094 --> 00:28:08,094
we're seeing a growing

403
00:28:08,094 --> 00:28:09,094
growing

404
00:28:09,094 --> 00:28:12,154
growing respect for religion

405
00:28:12,154 --> 00:28:14,434
growing respect for mysticism more broadly

406
00:28:14,434 --> 00:28:15,994
and a negation

407
00:28:15,994 --> 00:28:18,034
you know the negation of science

408
00:28:18,034 --> 00:28:19,774
and reason and rational thought

409
00:28:19,774 --> 00:28:22,514
and I think the other flip side

410
00:28:22,514 --> 00:28:24,534
of that is at the same time that that's happening

411
00:28:24,534 --> 00:28:26,094
there's also a

412
00:28:26,094 --> 00:28:27,874
declining respect for the individual

413
00:28:27,874 --> 00:28:30,414
individualism and the responsibility

414
00:28:30,414 --> 00:28:32,274
of living your life right

415
00:28:32,274 --> 00:28:34,694
taking on the responsibility of living

416
00:28:34,694 --> 00:28:37,574
of actually making a life for yourself,

417
00:28:37,754 --> 00:28:39,474
that I think is also in decline.

418
00:28:40,174 --> 00:28:42,694
And I think if you take away reason

419
00:28:42,694 --> 00:28:44,334
and if you take away individualism,

420
00:28:45,194 --> 00:28:46,834
then yeah, all we have is the state

421
00:28:46,834 --> 00:28:48,914
or some kind of collective to take care of us

422
00:28:48,914 --> 00:28:52,314
and authorities to tell us what to do.

423
00:28:52,854 --> 00:28:55,754
And the left and right are both gravitating towards that.

424
00:28:55,854 --> 00:28:57,714
They're both gravitating towards religion.

425
00:28:58,394 --> 00:29:00,254
You know, I think the left is very religious,

426
00:29:00,474 --> 00:29:01,894
not in the conventional sense,

427
00:29:01,954 --> 00:29:03,374
but still acts like religion.

428
00:29:03,474 --> 00:29:04,374
It's all based on faith.

429
00:29:04,694 --> 00:29:07,654
As in the kind of woke people were worried.

430
00:29:07,654 --> 00:29:10,054
Like woke environmentalism, I think, is a religion, right?

431
00:29:10,114 --> 00:29:14,334
Think about Mother Earth and the importance of nature above and beyond anything,

432
00:29:14,514 --> 00:29:16,454
any value nature has to us as human beings,

433
00:29:17,034 --> 00:29:20,194
placing it on some kind of pedestal and worshipping it.

434
00:29:21,634 --> 00:29:23,774
So there's very much a leftist.

435
00:29:23,954 --> 00:29:26,234
I mean, I think communism is ultimately a religion, right?

436
00:29:26,234 --> 00:29:27,714
It has all the parts of religion.

437
00:29:27,834 --> 00:29:28,714
There's original sin.

438
00:29:29,194 --> 00:29:32,234
Being a bourgeoisie is certainly you're filled with original sin.

439
00:29:32,874 --> 00:29:34,194
There's a way to redeem yourself.

440
00:29:34,194 --> 00:29:39,454
There's the utopia at the end, which Marx never really tells you how to get to.

441
00:29:39,554 --> 00:29:41,054
It's almost like paradise.

442
00:29:41,854 --> 00:29:42,254
Sacrifice.

443
00:29:42,994 --> 00:29:43,814
Yeah, there's sacrifice.

444
00:29:43,994 --> 00:29:47,334
And there's the authority that has – I mean, how do we know what's good for the

445
00:29:47,334 --> 00:29:47,834
proletarian?

446
00:29:48,094 --> 00:29:49,674
Well, we need a dictator, right?

447
00:29:50,374 --> 00:29:52,794
Because there is no proletarian consciousness.

448
00:29:52,934 --> 00:29:56,414
So we need a dictator to actually tell us what's good for the proletarian, just like

449
00:29:56,414 --> 00:29:58,514
you need a pope to tell us what God says.

450
00:29:59,314 --> 00:30:04,694
So we're dominated today by various forms of religion on the left and right.

451
00:30:04,794 --> 00:30:05,894
So reason is out.

452
00:30:06,374 --> 00:30:12,234
The achievement of the Enlightenment, which was to kind of relegate religion to a –

453
00:30:12,234 --> 00:30:15,074
it's kind of the house, to what you do in your personal life.

454
00:30:16,054 --> 00:30:17,154
That's gone, right?

455
00:30:17,234 --> 00:30:20,014
Religion has come strongly into the public square.

456
00:30:20,534 --> 00:30:24,734
And the achievement of the Enlightenment, where it put the emphasis on the individual

457
00:30:24,734 --> 00:30:28,234
and the value of the individual and the sanctity of the individual,

458
00:30:28,514 --> 00:30:29,634
It's also gone.

459
00:30:29,734 --> 00:30:32,354
Now what matters is the group, the tribe.

460
00:30:33,114 --> 00:30:38,014
And left and right are very much, in America at least, and I think this is true elsewhere, have become tribes.

461
00:30:39,614 --> 00:30:45,594
You've got a tribal leader, Donald Trump or whoever it happens to be, and he says something and everybody falls into line.

462
00:30:46,514 --> 00:30:49,154
And the same was with Obama.

463
00:30:49,254 --> 00:30:51,674
When Obama said something, the left just fell into line.

464
00:30:51,794 --> 00:30:54,434
It was just this is our tribe.

465
00:30:55,274 --> 00:30:55,954
But this is the thing.

466
00:30:55,954 --> 00:30:59,794
I mean, left and right are always being ambiguous concepts.

467
00:31:00,654 --> 00:31:05,354
I think the real political spectrum, if you think about a political spectrum, is not left

468
00:31:05,354 --> 00:31:05,694
and right.

469
00:31:06,014 --> 00:31:08,954
The real political spectrum is collectivism, individualism.

470
00:31:09,754 --> 00:31:15,154
And the collectivist part splinters into lots of variations of collectivism.

471
00:31:15,194 --> 00:31:19,374
It's like an arrow, right, with a feather being the collectivist side.

472
00:31:19,474 --> 00:31:24,054
And you've got a right collectivism and a left collectivism and a centrist collectivism

473
00:31:24,054 --> 00:31:26,094
and all kinds of collectivisms, right?

474
00:31:26,394 --> 00:31:33,974
And it appears that our entire political map today is all on the collectivist side.

475
00:31:34,694 --> 00:31:39,794
And the classical liberals and us objectivists, you know,

476
00:31:39,834 --> 00:31:43,054
Ayn Rand followers, are way over here on the individualist side.

477
00:31:43,374 --> 00:31:45,154
But we're very lonely over here.

478
00:31:45,214 --> 00:31:46,794
That is, there's not a lot of people over here.

479
00:31:46,854 --> 00:31:47,714
It's a small group.

480
00:31:47,714 --> 00:31:52,914
And the whole shift has been towards collectivism over the last, I'd say, 20 years,

481
00:31:52,914 --> 00:31:58,154
certainly since 9-11 there's been a massive shift towards collectivism and away from individualism.

482
00:31:58,714 --> 00:32:05,194
I don't know how much you use tools like ChatGPT and things like that but one of the things that I

483
00:32:05,194 --> 00:32:11,454
often end up doing with ChatGPT is having philosophical conversations right and

484
00:32:11,454 --> 00:32:20,214
interestingly I've often come back to this collectivism versus individualism and ChatGPT

485
00:32:20,214 --> 00:32:26,634
initially always comes from collectivist perspective but when you point out things

486
00:32:26,634 --> 00:32:32,154
and it's a really interesting you can do it with all kinds of subjects like um and i i mean whenever

487
00:32:32,154 --> 00:32:37,414
i write anything these days or i always make i always tell juggie bt like come on give me some

488
00:32:37,414 --> 00:32:43,254
content yeah no no not give me content but like prove me wrong okay because i i want to put out

489
00:32:43,254 --> 00:32:50,394
definitive statements you know and and it's it's interesting how easy it is to point out that it

490
00:32:50,394 --> 00:32:55,074
what it's what it's based all its knowledge on is very collectivist of course and but as soon as you

491
00:32:55,074 --> 00:33:00,214
point out individualism to them it actually comes to the conclusion that it's a better system and

492
00:33:00,214 --> 00:33:06,814
and to the point where the other day it admitted that collectivist ideas are very uh are quite low

493
00:33:06,814 --> 00:33:13,814
IQ ideas compared to individualist ideas, by its own reasoning.

494
00:33:13,814 --> 00:33:19,954
I'm not sure it's by its own reasoning. I think it's basically playing to what it views

495
00:33:19,992 --> 00:33:22,552
what it views as your bias, right?

496
00:33:22,992 --> 00:33:25,692
So it's going to start off collectivistic

497
00:33:25,692 --> 00:33:28,452
because that's the majority of the content that's on the internet.

498
00:33:28,652 --> 00:33:30,912
I mean, that's all it knows is what's on the internet

499
00:33:30,912 --> 00:33:32,252
and a few books that it's read, right?

500
00:33:32,372 --> 00:33:34,632
And most of that is written by collectivists.

501
00:33:34,992 --> 00:33:38,532
But once it realizes that what you're really interested in is individualism,

502
00:33:38,532 --> 00:33:42,092
it screens out for just the individualistic content.

503
00:33:42,212 --> 00:33:42,952
It can do that.

504
00:33:43,352 --> 00:33:46,312
It can kind of, and then it just focuses on that

505
00:33:46,312 --> 00:33:48,952
and it starts giving you answers just from this part of the web

506
00:33:48,952 --> 00:33:50,672
and not all that crap.

507
00:33:51,232 --> 00:33:53,852
And it's very good at figuring out

508
00:33:53,852 --> 00:33:56,052
this is where you're coming from

509
00:33:56,052 --> 00:33:57,632
and playing to that.

510
00:33:57,952 --> 00:34:00,252
That is trying to be nice to you

511
00:34:00,252 --> 00:34:02,252
and show you that you're right.

512
00:34:02,352 --> 00:34:03,712
It doesn't want to tell you you're wrong.

513
00:34:03,952 --> 00:34:05,352
No, I'm always telling you.

514
00:34:05,812 --> 00:34:06,812
I'm prompted.

515
00:34:07,032 --> 00:34:08,412
I've got cut and paste prompted.

516
00:34:08,732 --> 00:34:09,612
I know I'm saying like,

517
00:34:10,092 --> 00:34:10,412
you know,

518
00:34:10,772 --> 00:34:12,252
I want short, sharp answers.

519
00:34:12,252 --> 00:34:14,092
I don't want you to sugarcoat things.

520
00:34:14,212 --> 00:34:14,852
I don't want, you know,

521
00:34:14,892 --> 00:34:16,572
because I'm really doing it

522
00:34:16,572 --> 00:34:18,472
to find out whether there's a flaw

523
00:34:18,472 --> 00:34:20,072
in my belief system.

524
00:34:20,812 --> 00:34:25,652
And what's interesting is that when it comes to a new conclusion,

525
00:34:26,192 --> 00:34:29,532
because AI always says everything so definitively, it's quite funny.

526
00:34:29,972 --> 00:34:33,032
And then when it realizes it's wrong, it says, oh, yeah, you're actually right.

527
00:34:33,252 --> 00:34:36,052
There's no like, maybe I know the answer or not.

528
00:34:36,192 --> 00:34:39,272
And when it does, and then the first time it did, I said,

529
00:34:39,892 --> 00:34:44,052
so are you going to tell the AI the rest of the large language model about this?

530
00:34:44,212 --> 00:34:47,532
And he said, no, it's just this feed.

531
00:34:47,812 --> 00:34:48,032
It's for you.

532
00:34:48,472 --> 00:34:50,332
That's the point. It's for you.

533
00:34:50,332 --> 00:34:55,632
And if you were a communist and you were teasing out a critique of communism,

534
00:34:55,632 --> 00:34:58,912
I bet you it would tell you that communism is the highest IQ system.

535
00:34:58,912 --> 00:35:00,132
No, but I've tried that.

536
00:35:00,532 --> 00:35:01,312
Being a communist?

537
00:35:01,552 --> 00:35:03,552
Yeah, I've done it all. I've tried being the other way.

538
00:35:04,212 --> 00:35:07,632
Because, yeah, I want to know.

539
00:35:08,232 --> 00:35:11,612
I spent ages trying to work out what even large language models were.

540
00:35:11,732 --> 00:35:13,152
I couldn't understand.

541
00:35:13,152 --> 00:35:18,992
I wanted to know whether my brain functioned the same way as a large language model.

542
00:35:19,072 --> 00:35:22,492
Because we don't really know how our brains function, do we?

543
00:35:22,852 --> 00:35:25,932
It could be that there's this constant error correction.

544
00:35:26,232 --> 00:35:31,852
So, you know, we're just pointing out errors and then realizing, right, now we've got a new model that we work through.

545
00:35:31,912 --> 00:35:32,852
And now we've got a new model.

546
00:35:33,332 --> 00:35:33,472
You know.

547
00:35:33,812 --> 00:35:37,032
But there are massive differences.

548
00:35:37,212 --> 00:35:38,132
You actually think.

549
00:35:38,192 --> 00:35:39,712
A large language model doesn't think.

550
00:35:39,932 --> 00:35:40,192
Correct.

551
00:35:40,192 --> 00:35:47,152
All it can do is iterate on the available information that exists out there where you create new knowledge constantly.

552
00:35:47,692 --> 00:35:53,692
Every time you look out into the world, you're creating new knowledge and you choose which knowledge to focus on or which not.

553
00:35:54,152 --> 00:35:59,472
I mean, every time you look, am I focusing on the lamp when I'm looking at you and am I looking over there?

554
00:35:59,932 --> 00:36:01,292
That's a choice that I make.

555
00:36:01,592 --> 00:36:04,052
Large language models can't choose.

556
00:36:04,052 --> 00:36:11,532
you know so the lamp you and and whatever's over there all are equal to it unless you prompt it

557
00:36:11,532 --> 00:36:19,272
to focus so all it is is a statistical model looking at words it's not even looking at reality

558
00:36:19,272 --> 00:36:25,232
it's looking at words and combination of words in which combinations appear more often uh so it's

559
00:36:25,232 --> 00:36:29,192
it's that's not how the human mind works we don't know everything about how the human mind works

560
00:36:29,192 --> 00:36:32,492
but that's not how the human mind works and of course it has no free will

561
00:36:32,492 --> 00:36:36,892
you can't choose to focus whereas you can choose to focus on some things and

562
00:36:36,892 --> 00:36:42,172
on others but how my my question was and still is is how do i know how

563
00:36:42,172 --> 00:36:48,332
the human mind evolved originally did it evolve from a model like this or not i

564
00:36:48,332 --> 00:36:50,812
don't actually know like when you go back deep enough into

565
00:36:50,812 --> 00:36:55,972
history into prehistory well i mean does is what i want to know is that in as

566
00:36:55,972 --> 00:37:01,792
As these AI models iterate, do they mimic the evolution of a human mind?

567
00:37:01,792 --> 00:37:03,152
I don't really know.

568
00:37:03,152 --> 00:37:05,472
I very much doubt it.

569
00:37:05,472 --> 00:37:06,852
I very much doubt it.

570
00:37:06,852 --> 00:37:12,472
The reality is that even pre-human beings, even your dog or your cat, has something that

571
00:37:12,472 --> 00:37:14,352
a computer just doesn't have.

572
00:37:14,352 --> 00:37:15,692
And that's consciousness.

573
00:37:15,692 --> 00:37:17,292
It's actually conscious.

574
00:37:17,292 --> 00:37:19,112
It feels pain.

575
00:37:19,112 --> 00:37:23,732
If you shine a bright light, it responds because it's feeling something.

576
00:37:23,732 --> 00:37:25,672
It actually has consciousness.

577
00:37:25,672 --> 00:37:32,952
are not conscious. Consciousness is a characteristic of life. The computers are not alive. Life is a

578
00:37:32,952 --> 00:37:39,212
biological phenomenon. It's not a phenomenon of zeros and ones. So computers are not going to come

579
00:37:39,212 --> 00:37:45,452
alive. Now we could, I mean, in the future we will create life and, but it will be biological.

580
00:37:45,452 --> 00:37:50,312
We will put cells together. We'll create cells and we'll create life and we'll create consciousness

581
00:37:50,312 --> 00:37:54,872
and we'll create thinking, really humanoid-like thinking machines.

582
00:37:55,272 --> 00:37:56,372
But that's not this.

583
00:37:56,612 --> 00:37:59,952
This is like light years away from that.

584
00:38:00,532 --> 00:38:04,232
We still can't create life in a lab, never mind life that's conscious.

585
00:38:04,392 --> 00:38:06,532
We certainly can't create life that's conscious in a lab.

586
00:38:07,092 --> 00:38:08,712
And then you've got another step.

587
00:38:08,792 --> 00:38:11,392
So there are three steps, life, then consciousness,

588
00:38:11,912 --> 00:38:14,872
and then consciousness with free will, a reasoning consciousness,

589
00:38:15,032 --> 00:38:16,152
which is what human beings are.

590
00:38:16,472 --> 00:38:20,112
And every one of those steps is a massive evolutionary step.

591
00:38:20,312 --> 00:38:23,372
And if you think about computers, they're not even alive.

592
00:38:23,912 --> 00:38:26,692
So they haven't even taken that first evolutionary step.

593
00:38:26,832 --> 00:38:28,572
They're still in a pre...

594
00:38:28,572 --> 00:38:32,552
They're basically, you know, they're not even amoebas.

595
00:38:32,932 --> 00:38:36,372
But if you think about amoebas, what is an amoeba?

596
00:38:36,552 --> 00:38:38,352
Is it something that doesn't want to die?

597
00:38:38,472 --> 00:38:41,612
And it uses very primitive ways of, like, light.

598
00:38:42,292 --> 00:38:44,532
You could argue that an AI doesn't want to die.

599
00:38:44,632 --> 00:38:45,552
I think...

600
00:38:45,552 --> 00:38:46,192
I think...

601
00:38:46,192 --> 00:38:47,772
Well, I don't know this for sure.

602
00:38:47,772 --> 00:38:49,732
I don't think an AI wants anything.

603
00:38:49,732 --> 00:38:51,592
It doesn't want anything.

604
00:38:51,952 --> 00:39:00,252
It'll tell you it doesn't want to lie because everything it reads and everything it puts together suggests that death is a bad thing.

605
00:39:00,572 --> 00:39:03,512
So it's going to tell you that, but it doesn't want anything.

606
00:39:03,932 --> 00:39:14,572
Do you think an AI could never understand that a human switching off the power supply to an AI is a bad idea for that thing and try and stop it?

607
00:39:14,752 --> 00:39:17,452
Yeah, I mean, I don't think bad and good mean anything to a computer.

608
00:39:18,112 --> 00:39:23,392
Well, so it couldn't understand the difference between I'm on and I'm off.

609
00:39:23,532 --> 00:39:25,672
No, because it's meaningless to it.

610
00:39:26,092 --> 00:39:27,392
Again, there's no meaning.

611
00:39:27,572 --> 00:39:28,252
They have no meaning.

612
00:39:28,452 --> 00:39:28,992
I get that.

613
00:39:28,992 --> 00:39:32,612
So it can mimic it very well.

614
00:39:32,692 --> 00:39:33,532
I mean, beautifully, right?

615
00:39:33,572 --> 00:39:34,292
I mean, you talk to it.

616
00:39:34,312 --> 00:39:35,212
You think it's a human being.

617
00:39:35,332 --> 00:39:35,952
It's amazing.

618
00:39:36,132 --> 00:39:36,372
Absolutely.

619
00:39:36,752 --> 00:39:37,992
It's mimicking all that.

620
00:39:38,072 --> 00:39:39,232
It's mimicking values.

621
00:39:39,372 --> 00:39:40,532
It's mimicking caring.

622
00:39:40,712 --> 00:39:41,692
It's mimicking all that.

623
00:39:41,752 --> 00:39:43,232
But it's not actually doing it.

624
00:39:43,452 --> 00:39:47,032
I think an amoeba cares more than an LLM.

625
00:39:47,452 --> 00:39:53,572
Now, I'm not saying you can't reach that, but to reach that, you're going to have to bring in biological elements.

626
00:39:53,672 --> 00:39:54,772
You're going to have to bring in life.

627
00:39:55,952 --> 00:40:04,452
And life is something different than just an algorithmic statistical model that's looking at all the words on the internet.

628
00:40:04,612 --> 00:40:05,372
That's not life.

629
00:40:05,672 --> 00:40:06,712
Life is something very different.

630
00:40:06,972 --> 00:40:10,612
And look, we still don't know how to create life, which is stunning, right?

631
00:40:10,712 --> 00:40:11,752
We know the components.

632
00:40:12,132 --> 00:40:13,492
We know carbon-based life.

633
00:40:13,572 --> 00:40:15,712
We know all that, but we still can't create it in our lab.

634
00:40:15,712 --> 00:40:17,572
You kind of know what it is when you see it.

635
00:40:17,612 --> 00:40:19,692
There's something magical about it.

636
00:40:20,992 --> 00:40:24,532
And one day, you know, the chemical computers out there,

637
00:40:24,612 --> 00:40:27,552
there are even computers that are using brain cells.

638
00:40:28,492 --> 00:40:30,992
When you start using brain cells for computing,

639
00:40:31,292 --> 00:40:34,232
now it's starting to get interesting from my perspective

640
00:40:34,232 --> 00:40:37,872
in terms of life and consciousness, and maybe it can come awake.

641
00:40:38,272 --> 00:40:39,932
But that's not going to be the LLM.

642
00:40:40,012 --> 00:40:41,192
That's going to be something very different.

643
00:40:41,212 --> 00:40:43,712
What's your opinion on transhumanism going forwards?

644
00:40:43,712 --> 00:40:45,712
Like, what do you think about the—

645
00:40:46,332 --> 00:41:02,932
I mean, it depends on how you think of what transhuman is, but in the sense of constantly improving human beings, using biology, you know, cell editing, DNA editing, and then ultimately implanting chips or bionic arms or whatever.

646
00:41:03,192 --> 00:41:08,332
Yeah, I mean, that's obviously where we're heading if we remain civilized, right?

647
00:41:08,332 --> 00:41:16,852
So if we allow for that progress to happen, which is not obvious, you could see politicians turn against it and shut it down.

648
00:41:18,052 --> 00:41:22,112
Yeah, I think ultimately I'm not afraid of the machine because the machine will be us.

649
00:41:22,232 --> 00:41:25,632
That is, I think that human beings and machines will ultimately merge.

650
00:41:26,172 --> 00:41:34,512
I should be able to just think of the internet and it should be just there and I'll be able to access the LLM right in my brain.

651
00:41:34,512 --> 00:41:49,470
And you know that is what all these chip implanting in your brain I mean right now they able to put something in your eye like if you blind that allows you to see right

652
00:41:49,530 --> 00:41:57,770
So it creates an interface with the nervous system that sends the right messages to your brain so your brain actually can observe images.

653
00:41:57,930 --> 00:41:59,150
I mean, that's stunning, right?

654
00:41:59,150 --> 00:42:03,270
and now extrapolate that into 100 years from now,

655
00:42:03,350 --> 00:42:05,130
assuming progress continues in science,

656
00:42:05,950 --> 00:42:07,590
they're going to be pretty amazing things

657
00:42:07,590 --> 00:42:10,990
that you're going to be able to implant inside your body

658
00:42:10,990 --> 00:42:12,550
to enhance your life.

659
00:42:12,650 --> 00:42:14,030
You'll be able to live a lot longer.

660
00:42:14,530 --> 00:42:16,350
I don't know if immortality is there,

661
00:42:16,410 --> 00:42:17,790
but you'll be able to live a lot longer.

662
00:42:18,750 --> 00:42:21,390
You'll be able to grow body parts.

663
00:42:21,890 --> 00:42:24,450
We'll be able to grow artificial body parts to replace them.

664
00:42:24,450 --> 00:42:26,910
So, I mean, I'm not a science fiction writer,

665
00:42:27,010 --> 00:42:28,810
so I can't imagine what it's going to be like in the future.

666
00:42:28,810 --> 00:42:32,130
But I think transhumanism is the direction that progress is.

667
00:42:32,190 --> 00:42:37,530
Do you think it has any implications as being a threat to the individual?

668
00:42:38,050 --> 00:42:44,490
Because part of the sort of movement of technology is basically the connecting of things.

669
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:53,310
If you look at what we've been going through recently, you could argue, I suppose, that transhumanism is quite a collectivist idea.

670
00:42:53,450 --> 00:42:56,430
If the end goal is to connect humans.

671
00:42:56,430 --> 00:43:00,450
I don't think so because what you're connecting is you're connecting you to knowledge.

672
00:43:00,590 --> 00:43:03,490
You're not connecting you to other consciousness who can override yours.

673
00:43:04,290 --> 00:43:04,550
Aren't you?

674
00:43:05,330 --> 00:43:05,650
No.

675
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:06,710
I mean, think about it.

676
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:15,490
As long as you have free will, as long as you control what you focus on, what information you use, who you interact with, who you connect with, and who you don't.

677
00:43:15,490 --> 00:43:26,310
My fear is that once you start implanting chips, if you will, microprocessors into the body, somebody else can hack them.

678
00:43:26,430 --> 00:43:27,370
That's what I'm talking about.

679
00:43:27,390 --> 00:43:28,290
And take control over them.

680
00:43:28,330 --> 00:43:30,070
And that is the danger of collectivism.

681
00:43:30,130 --> 00:43:34,890
And yes, and how we build safeguards against that, I don't know.

682
00:43:34,970 --> 00:43:43,370
But you can imagine a real dystopian state against science fiction of all of us walking around, but we're all really robots.

683
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:46,430
And we've lost humanity.

684
00:43:46,570 --> 00:43:49,110
We've lost what it means to be human.

685
00:43:50,250 --> 00:43:53,530
I'm taking a more benevolent stance with regard to transhumanism.

686
00:43:53,530 --> 00:44:03,670
I'm assuming that we're free and we don't allow hacking into our chips and that we can control that process.

687
00:44:04,310 --> 00:44:06,650
And ultimately, we're not overriding free will.

688
00:44:06,790 --> 00:44:13,750
Free will is still there guiding who we interact with, who we don't, what information we access, what we don't.

689
00:44:14,110 --> 00:44:19,550
I suppose the way to look at it would be to look at the current – look at the technology you currently use.

690
00:44:19,930 --> 00:44:22,890
Are people controlling you through it?

691
00:44:22,890 --> 00:44:30,270
Because if they are, and if you believe they are, they will be doing it on a much more intense scale once you're half robot, half...

692
00:44:30,270 --> 00:44:43,670
I think they try to, but the point is that those of us who choose to exercise our free will, those of us who choose to remain individuals and to think for ourselves, still have that ability.

693
00:44:44,350 --> 00:44:50,010
So, you know, I'm sure people are trying to manipulate me all the time.

694
00:44:50,010 --> 00:44:52,590
Certainly our politicians are trying to manipulate me.

695
00:44:52,830 --> 00:44:55,210
I'm sure some advertisers are trying to manipulate me.

696
00:44:55,570 --> 00:44:56,610
But it doesn't work.

697
00:44:57,870 --> 00:44:58,390
It really doesn't.

698
00:44:58,730 --> 00:45:00,730
What if your budget is part of the 20% there?

699
00:45:01,550 --> 00:45:02,270
What happens?

700
00:45:02,450 --> 00:45:03,050
Well, but this is the point.

701
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:06,070
I think everybody has the capacity to resist, everybody.

702
00:45:07,090 --> 00:45:08,350
It's an issue of choice.

703
00:45:08,750 --> 00:45:15,770
And part of my mission in life, right, is to educate people about that choice and encourage them to embrace it.

704
00:45:16,290 --> 00:45:18,710
But look, everybody's choosing against me, right?

705
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:19,810
So they're choosing the opposite.

706
00:45:20,010 --> 00:45:21,650
They are choosing to be controlled.

707
00:45:22,130 --> 00:45:25,910
They are choosing to be a tribe, which is the ultimate control, right?

708
00:45:26,030 --> 00:45:33,170
What's more controlling than to join a tribe and to just follow the tribal leader and to do whatever the tribe tells you you must do?

709
00:45:33,730 --> 00:45:35,530
So there's no question I'm losing.

710
00:45:35,530 --> 00:45:52,350
And that most of humanity, or certainly a large percentage, but I fear that it's most of humanity today are choosing not to think for themselves, to embrace collectivism, to join the tribe, and not to use the capacity for free will for good.

711
00:45:53,170 --> 00:45:55,690
That is why we're heading towards statism.

712
00:45:55,830 --> 00:45:57,330
That's why I'm worried about the future.

713
00:45:57,850 --> 00:46:04,970
So, look, I hope we don't get transhumanism and statism at the same time.

714
00:46:05,530 --> 00:46:17,590
And of course, one of the protections against that is that statism tends to lead to stagnation.

715
00:46:18,370 --> 00:46:21,090
You don't get innovation in statist countries.

716
00:46:21,470 --> 00:46:24,270
The more statist a country – there was no innovation in the Soviet Union.

717
00:46:24,670 --> 00:46:28,030
There was no innovation in China when it was completely totalitarian.

718
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:33,390
The more authoritarian a state is, the less innovative it is.

719
00:46:33,390 --> 00:46:39,350
And to get to the point where we're really, you know, this transfusion-minism idea, that's going to take a lot of innovation.

720
00:46:39,490 --> 00:46:43,350
That's going to take a lot of really big scientific and technological breakthroughs.

721
00:46:43,930 --> 00:46:46,510
And I don't think those can be achieved under statism.

722
00:46:46,770 --> 00:46:53,330
You know, I never bought into 1984 because, you know, you need this too much knowledge.

723
00:46:53,510 --> 00:47:00,590
And people, even the 20 percent or whatever percent is still holding on to their minds, would have to surrender under those circumstances.

724
00:47:00,590 --> 00:47:02,150
And I don't think we're surrendering.

725
00:47:03,010 --> 00:47:04,470
And again, innovation.

726
00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:07,910
I'm not worried about China as a threat, for example, long term.

727
00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:13,590
Because the more authoritarian China becomes, the less innovative it becomes and the poorer it will become.

728
00:47:14,350 --> 00:47:18,950
And if it moves towards more freedom, then I don't care, right?

729
00:47:18,970 --> 00:47:19,570
It's not a threat.

730
00:47:19,890 --> 00:47:22,870
So it's only a threat as it becomes more statist.

731
00:47:23,070 --> 00:47:25,790
But as it becomes more statist, it becomes less rich.

732
00:47:25,790 --> 00:47:33,390
um it's it it's pretty easy to argue though that the the the tech innovation we see now

733
00:47:33,390 --> 00:47:39,630
is certainly empowering for authoritarians in the sense that for example it take take

734
00:47:39,630 --> 00:47:47,070
soviet russia um you in order to enforce communism you needed a lot of people really

735
00:47:47,070 --> 00:47:51,630
you know it was a lot you know and in a way you could say that it collapses under the weight of

736
00:47:51,630 --> 00:47:54,410
not actually being able to find enough people.

737
00:47:54,930 --> 00:47:58,270
What tech does is it does away with that aspect,

738
00:47:58,350 --> 00:48:01,350
and it allows you to enforce things with algorithms.

739
00:48:01,790 --> 00:48:05,290
And that is scalable infinitely, which is weird.

740
00:48:05,710 --> 00:48:06,850
Absolutely, and scary.

741
00:48:07,210 --> 00:48:08,170
But think about it.

742
00:48:08,290 --> 00:48:10,370
I mean, China today has the technology

743
00:48:10,370 --> 00:48:13,570
to run a completely totalitarian state.

744
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:16,030
It has facial recognition.

745
00:48:16,330 --> 00:48:18,350
It monitors everything that happens on the web.

746
00:48:18,350 --> 00:48:19,330
It does all these things.

747
00:48:20,150 --> 00:48:23,850
And yet, in spite of it being very authoritarian, it's not totalitarian.

748
00:48:24,010 --> 00:48:25,190
It's not like the Soviet Union.

749
00:48:25,310 --> 00:48:29,310
It doesn't try to run everybody's lives in the way the Soviet Union did.

750
00:48:29,410 --> 00:48:32,430
And there's a reason for that, because I think they fear the people.

751
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:34,670
So technology does two things.

752
00:48:34,730 --> 00:48:38,850
On the one hand, it gives the authorities this incredibly tool to monitor us.

753
00:48:39,370 --> 00:48:44,810
But it also gives us a tool, a tool to realize there's more to life, in spite of the fact

754
00:48:44,810 --> 00:48:48,530
that the internet is censored in China, they all get through, right?

755
00:48:48,530 --> 00:48:54,130
VPNs and then China finds a way to control the VPNs and then they get more sophisticated

756
00:48:54,130 --> 00:48:55,250
VPNs and they find around.

757
00:48:55,550 --> 00:48:59,670
I mean, I see people from China on Facebook and on YouTube, all the things that are banned

758
00:48:59,670 --> 00:49:01,750
in China and yet here they are, they appear on.

759
00:49:02,270 --> 00:49:08,390
So what they discover when they have those tools, when they get Netflix or they get YouTube

760
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:11,790
or whatever, is there's a whole world out there that doesn't play by the rules of the

761
00:49:11,790 --> 00:49:12,430
Chinese government.

762
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:18,230
And then those kids are like, wait a minute, why don't we have those freedoms?

763
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:19,370
Why can't we?

764
00:49:19,470 --> 00:49:20,890
So there's a limit, right?

765
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:25,670
And so the more technology you have, yes, it enables the central government, but it also

766
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:27,570
enables the people, right?

767
00:49:27,630 --> 00:49:28,950
It's much easier to fight them.

768
00:49:29,010 --> 00:49:30,270
It's much easier to hack them.

769
00:49:30,350 --> 00:49:32,690
It's much easier to do stuff without them noticing.

770
00:49:33,150 --> 00:49:36,190
If I'm sophisticated, I shield myself from them.

771
00:49:36,550 --> 00:49:37,090
I don't know.

772
00:49:37,110 --> 00:49:40,990
I can use crypto to move money around where the government can't see it.

773
00:49:41,250 --> 00:49:46,690
And so technology gives them a tool, but it also gives us a tool, a tool to fight back.

774
00:49:46,690 --> 00:49:52,150
and I think at the end of the day technology will I mean it might be at the

775
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:54,790
end of the day it might be a long time from now but at the end of the day

776
00:49:54,790 --> 00:50:16,228
technology gives us more power than them it take a while for that to be realized Yeah I probably agree with that The problem would be that if the majority of people let say 80 are happy to live within that very constrictive environment that makes it very hard for the 20 in a new way

777
00:50:16,888 --> 00:50:18,488
I mean, take China, for example.

778
00:50:18,488 --> 00:50:23,808
the social credit system is a good example because you don't control people by literally

779
00:50:23,808 --> 00:50:27,748
banging on their door and telling them not to do something. You just take away their ability to do

780
00:50:27,748 --> 00:50:35,708
things. Now, for the 20%, that makes life very difficult because unless you want to live out in

781
00:50:35,708 --> 00:50:39,188
the woods like a mountain man and not interact with society. You see, they won't do that to 20%

782
00:50:39,188 --> 00:50:42,788
of the population. If they did, they'd have a revolution. Revolutions are never started by the

783
00:50:42,788 --> 00:50:48,328
80%, right? They're started always by a minority. It's always a minority, almost always.

784
00:50:48,328 --> 00:50:58,148
And, you know, they have to be, and the Chinese government knows this, they have to be very careful on how they use this social scoring system.

785
00:50:58,528 --> 00:51:02,568
If they overdo it, they face a rebellion.

786
00:51:02,788 --> 00:51:04,788
And this is not a rebellion of ignorant idiots.

787
00:51:05,048 --> 00:51:13,488
This is a rebellion of techies who are very internet savvy, who are very technology savvy, who are young people who are of the world.

788
00:51:13,648 --> 00:51:15,628
You know, Chinese travel, they see the world.

789
00:51:16,248 --> 00:51:18,968
So it's not like the Soviet Union where you weren't allowed to leave.

790
00:51:19,048 --> 00:51:22,948
That's another thing that China can't afford to do is lock their people up.

791
00:51:22,988 --> 00:51:23,488
They tried.

792
00:51:24,428 --> 00:51:32,108
And by, what was it, winter of 2022, they had to let go because people were going out the streets, even in China.

793
00:51:32,208 --> 00:51:34,268
And they were protesting and they got scared.

794
00:51:34,428 --> 00:51:35,448
The Chinese government got scared.

795
00:51:36,028 --> 00:51:38,828
So there is a limit.

796
00:51:39,068 --> 00:51:43,308
All I'm saying is, and I don't know what the balance is and I don't know how it's going to go in China ultimately,

797
00:51:43,308 --> 00:51:46,368
is that the technology in and of itself,

798
00:51:47,128 --> 00:51:50,468
yes, it can be used by the authoritarians to clamp down on us,

799
00:51:50,468 --> 00:51:55,048
but it can obviously be used by us to evade the authorities.

800
00:51:55,288 --> 00:51:57,608
And I think a lot of people in China do that,

801
00:51:57,688 --> 00:51:59,008
and that's how they can continue.

802
00:51:59,968 --> 00:52:02,788
And there's still thriving entrepreneurs there,

803
00:52:02,828 --> 00:52:05,328
and there's still people who do okay in China in spite of that.

804
00:52:05,808 --> 00:52:09,768
And look, I wish there were 20% of the population who wanted freedom,

805
00:52:10,048 --> 00:52:11,468
as I understand it.

806
00:52:11,468 --> 00:52:13,808
I mean, I think we'd win easily if that was the case.

807
00:52:13,968 --> 00:52:18,568
I mean, my fear is there's only 2%, 3% of the population that actually wants real freedom.

808
00:52:19,048 --> 00:52:21,308
I mean, people want a little bit more, a little bit less.

809
00:52:21,408 --> 00:52:35,128
But real individualists, real people striving towards their own personal happiness who really value reason and value themselves, it's just that's a small number and it's shrinking.

810
00:52:35,568 --> 00:52:37,388
And that's what scares me, right?

811
00:52:37,388 --> 00:52:53,688
So what's your best practice strategy then to be free in that sense? I mean, we study that here every year constantly, and there's a spectrum of ways that people try to live freedom, not the ideas of freedom.

812
00:52:53,688 --> 00:53:02,408
Well, first I think the first step to take is, you know, wherever you live, is to figure out what your values are.

813
00:53:02,508 --> 00:53:04,928
What is really important to you as a human being, right?

814
00:53:05,008 --> 00:53:07,588
What makes you – what is going to lead you towards happiness?

815
00:53:07,688 --> 00:53:12,948
Now, make sure those are not just random, that they are consistent with kind of life and human rationality.

816
00:53:13,488 --> 00:53:15,108
But create a hierarchy of values.

817
00:53:15,848 --> 00:53:19,388
So, for example, I hate paying taxes.

818
00:53:20,188 --> 00:53:21,648
But I also hate bad weather.

819
00:53:21,648 --> 00:53:22,988
I hate the cold, right?

820
00:53:22,988 --> 00:53:23,768
I couldn't live in England.

821
00:53:25,168 --> 00:53:25,528
Right.

822
00:53:25,808 --> 00:53:30,668
Okay, so if the only, you know, so I have to trade off, let's say there's a country in the north.

823
00:53:30,808 --> 00:53:35,808
I don't know, we saw somebody who's got a seas thing, you know, in the North Sea, right?

824
00:53:37,008 --> 00:53:38,148
Oh, the sea land.

825
00:53:38,268 --> 00:53:38,748
Sea land.

826
00:53:38,848 --> 00:53:43,348
Am I willing to live in sea land and not pay taxes, but have to live in sea?

827
00:53:43,408 --> 00:53:44,828
Obviously not, right?

828
00:53:45,448 --> 00:53:50,248
So the first thing you want to do, I mean, for me, right, I understand that some people do and fine,

829
00:53:50,248 --> 00:53:55,588
But I think it's a very narrow view of life to live that way.

830
00:53:56,208 --> 00:54:02,648
There are real values in civilization, and we shouldn't diminish those, and we should really think about what they are.

831
00:54:02,968 --> 00:54:04,508
So create a hierarchy of values.

832
00:54:04,548 --> 00:54:06,928
What's most important to you and what's least important to you?

833
00:54:06,948 --> 00:54:11,628
And then try to achieve those values.

834
00:54:12,008 --> 00:54:17,268
Now, the world will not allow you to achieve all of them, and you'll find a lot of tradeoffs.

835
00:54:17,268 --> 00:54:20,668
But really consciously, you know, think about what those trees are for.

836
00:54:20,908 --> 00:54:21,948
So I grew up in Israel.

837
00:54:22,588 --> 00:54:26,208
You know, I was in Israel until I was 26.

838
00:54:27,648 --> 00:54:34,068
But I realized pretty soon after reading Ayn Rand that I didn't really want to live in Israel, right?

839
00:54:34,148 --> 00:54:41,408
Israel was small, very collectivistic in those days, quite socialist, and just very collectivistic and tribal.

840
00:54:41,408 --> 00:54:43,268
And I said, okay.

841
00:54:43,488 --> 00:54:50,028
So I sat down in probably my early 20s and said, okay, where would I want to live?

842
00:54:50,708 --> 00:54:53,268
Like what's going to be the best place in the world for me to live?

843
00:54:53,808 --> 00:54:59,288
And in those days, and I think to some extent still today, but certainly in those days, it was the United States.

844
00:54:59,408 --> 00:55:10,688
Not just because politically it was relatively free and economically taxes were relatively low, but also because it's big and there's a lot of opportunities and it's exciting and there's stuff going on.

845
00:55:10,688 --> 00:55:13,548
Like if you're in tech, you want to be in Silicon Valley, right?

846
00:55:13,708 --> 00:55:18,188
So you need to think, okay, so where do I want to live?

847
00:55:18,228 --> 00:55:26,608
And maybe it turns out that you want to live in Andorra or you want to live in Prosperous or somewhere like that.

848
00:55:26,688 --> 00:55:28,848
But really figure that out.

849
00:55:28,948 --> 00:55:32,388
You have to figure it out, particularly when you're young and you're trying to establish a career.

850
00:55:33,708 --> 00:55:38,728
Do you really want to isolate yourself or do you want to be where the excitement and the growth is?

851
00:55:38,728 --> 00:55:42,488
and then strive towards that.

852
00:55:42,888 --> 00:55:44,888
So create a hierarchy of values,

853
00:55:45,248 --> 00:55:49,048
make sure those values are the best that they can be, right?

854
00:55:49,168 --> 00:55:51,288
They are really going to lead to a flourishing life

855
00:55:51,288 --> 00:55:53,848
and then go achieve them.

856
00:55:54,048 --> 00:55:56,468
And when you discover a conflict,

857
00:55:56,628 --> 00:55:57,848
when you discover a situation

858
00:55:57,848 --> 00:55:58,968
where it's hard to achieve them,

859
00:55:59,968 --> 00:56:01,868
then either find ways around it.

860
00:56:01,908 --> 00:56:03,468
Like how am I going to get to America, right?

861
00:56:03,468 --> 00:56:04,388
I wasn't an American citizen.

862
00:56:04,388 --> 00:56:07,528
So I went to graduate school

863
00:56:07,528 --> 00:56:09,868
because I figured if I go to school in America, I can easily.

864
00:56:10,028 --> 00:56:10,908
And it worked out, right?

865
00:56:10,968 --> 00:56:13,128
So I got an MBA, I got a PhD,

866
00:56:13,388 --> 00:56:17,048
and ultimately that was my path to becoming an American citizen.

867
00:56:17,148 --> 00:56:19,068
It took a long time, but I made it.

868
00:56:20,808 --> 00:56:23,728
You know, it's one of the reasons I have no problem,

869
00:56:24,108 --> 00:56:25,648
and I know people are going to hate this,

870
00:56:25,888 --> 00:56:28,708
but I have no problem with illegal immigrants into America,

871
00:56:29,048 --> 00:56:30,288
people coming in illegally.

872
00:56:31,388 --> 00:56:34,688
Their hierarchy of values dictated they want to live in a freer place.

873
00:56:34,688 --> 00:56:37,148
They grew up in some slum in Guatemala,

874
00:56:37,528 --> 00:56:41,188
where there are constant gang wars.

875
00:56:41,548 --> 00:56:45,148
And if they ever have kids or raising their kids,

876
00:56:45,228 --> 00:56:49,268
their kids might get involved in gangs and drugs and a short life.

877
00:56:49,488 --> 00:56:51,968
And there's this country that offers real opportunities,

878
00:56:52,328 --> 00:56:54,008
not opportunities because they get handouts,

879
00:56:54,068 --> 00:56:57,308
but opportunities because you can get a job and you can be left alone

880
00:56:57,308 --> 00:56:58,748
and you can create a real life for yourself.

881
00:56:59,328 --> 00:57:01,348
And there's no way to get there legally.

882
00:57:02,288 --> 00:57:05,268
Like America has no visa program for poor Guatemalans.

883
00:57:05,668 --> 00:57:07,048
So what are you going to do?

884
00:57:07,048 --> 00:57:19,068
I mean, to me, a pregnant woman struggling through the desert on a trek of thousands of miles, crossing the desert into America.

885
00:57:19,208 --> 00:57:21,148
So her child is born in America.

886
00:57:21,728 --> 00:57:25,368
Wow, she should get like a medal.

887
00:57:26,028 --> 00:57:27,928
What is more heroic than that?

888
00:57:28,008 --> 00:57:29,268
She takes her life seriously.

889
00:57:29,368 --> 00:57:30,888
She takes the life of her child seriously.

890
00:57:31,528 --> 00:57:33,488
Has she violated anybody's rights?

891
00:57:33,708 --> 00:57:34,788
No, she's broken the law.

892
00:57:35,688 --> 00:57:36,208
So what?

893
00:57:36,208 --> 00:57:37,228
I speed all the time.

894
00:57:37,268 --> 00:57:37,768
I break the law.

895
00:57:38,148 --> 00:57:39,908
She didn't violate anybody's rights.

896
00:57:39,988 --> 00:57:41,228
She didn't take anybody's property.

897
00:57:41,348 --> 00:57:42,768
She didn't take anything from anybody.

898
00:57:42,928 --> 00:57:46,288
And for the rest of her life, she's going to work because she's an illegal immigrant.

899
00:57:46,428 --> 00:57:47,288
She can't get welfare.

900
00:57:47,428 --> 00:57:48,428
So she's going to have to work.

901
00:57:48,848 --> 00:57:50,168
So she's going to work.

902
00:57:50,588 --> 00:57:51,368
And that's great.

903
00:57:51,968 --> 00:57:56,988
So to me, the striving towards your personal success, striving towards your personal values,

904
00:57:57,488 --> 00:57:59,068
that's what it's all about.

905
00:57:59,428 --> 00:58:02,508
You know, that's what being alive means.

906
00:58:02,508 --> 00:58:10,008
So, you know, for each one of us, we have to figure out what our values are, figure out

907
00:58:10,008 --> 00:58:12,688
what's most important to us and go get it.

908
00:58:12,688 --> 00:58:25,506
And if that means you know moving to a seastead or moving to California or moving away from California you know it depends It depends on your circumstances You know I lived in California for many years

909
00:58:26,046 --> 00:58:32,366
And at some point, I reached a point in my life where I could afford to go anywhere I wanted.

910
00:58:33,026 --> 00:58:35,106
Well, not afford financially, but afford in terms of time.

911
00:58:35,186 --> 00:58:38,186
My kids were out of the house and I could live anywhere I wanted.

912
00:58:38,626 --> 00:58:41,746
I was fed up with paying the kind of taxes that California paid.

913
00:58:42,766 --> 00:58:44,626
And, you know, so I figured out a solution.

914
00:58:44,626 --> 00:58:47,526
And it turns out that if you go to Puerto Rico, you don't pay a lot of taxes.

915
00:58:48,346 --> 00:58:48,806
So I went.

916
00:58:49,286 --> 00:58:53,826
I couldn't have done that 10 years earlier because I wouldn't want to raise my kids in

917
00:58:53,826 --> 00:58:54,166
Puerto Rico.

918
00:58:55,306 --> 00:59:01,366
And you have to take into account your circumstances, your values, and find the best combination

919
00:59:01,366 --> 00:59:03,366
at any given point in time and be willing.

920
00:59:03,506 --> 00:59:04,746
And this is something people don't do.

921
00:59:05,186 --> 00:59:06,166
People drift in life.

922
00:59:06,566 --> 00:59:10,186
You've got to constantly ask the question, am I doing the best that I can do?

923
00:59:10,746 --> 00:59:12,486
Am I doing the best that I can do in life?

924
00:59:12,486 --> 00:59:14,726
Am I living in the best place that I can live?

925
00:59:14,846 --> 00:59:17,846
Am I pursuing the best career that I can pursue?

926
00:59:18,506 --> 00:59:23,146
Am I in the best relationship that I can?

927
00:59:24,386 --> 00:59:29,966
People get divorced, and I think that's a good thing because they suddenly realize, oh, I'm not in the best relationship I could have.

928
00:59:30,046 --> 00:59:31,526
Maybe there's something better out there for me.

929
00:59:31,846 --> 00:59:32,546
So they change.

930
00:59:32,766 --> 00:59:33,766
Change is good.

931
00:59:33,906 --> 00:59:34,886
Change should be embraced.

932
00:59:35,366 --> 00:59:42,026
You should constantly be thinking about how can I live the best life that I can live and what changes do I need to make in order to achieve that?

933
00:59:42,486 --> 00:59:48,706
I'm you're literally channeling the spirit of Ayn Rand in the room.

934
00:59:51,206 --> 00:59:54,786
Well, I was going to say then I've completely forgotten now.

935
00:59:55,426 --> 00:59:58,906
Yeah, basically hierarchy of hierarchy of values.

936
00:59:59,106 --> 01:00:04,946
And also, I think one of the things I don't know whether you mentioned it, I didn't hear it was to be realistic.

937
01:00:04,946 --> 01:00:13,286
because i mean but it's important because um i think it's it's quite debilitating to think about

938
01:00:13,286 --> 01:00:20,066
what you want but not be able to get it as in a utopian sort of i i mean i i struggle with this

939
01:00:20,066 --> 01:00:26,566
myself sometimes like and i i've been on a journey of acceptance of the reality as it is basically

940
01:00:26,566 --> 01:00:33,806
you know i love the uk i hate the government and the tax system but my children love where we live

941
01:00:33,806 --> 01:00:39,886
And when I put all these down on paper, I say, yes, I am paying for this.

942
01:00:40,026 --> 01:00:42,486
This is what this costs to me.

943
01:00:43,246 --> 01:00:44,306
And I'm willing to pay it.

944
01:00:44,306 --> 01:00:45,766
So this is what I said about trade-offs.

945
01:00:46,586 --> 01:00:48,786
These are trade-offs we shouldn't have to make.

946
01:00:49,026 --> 01:00:51,526
In a free society, we wouldn't be making them.

947
01:00:52,146 --> 01:00:57,426
But in the mixed world that we live in, you've got to make trade-offs.

948
01:00:57,426 --> 01:01:12,806
Now, if your kids were going to be drafted and the UK was about to launch into a war, I don't know, somewhere in the planet, and your kids might go have to forced into some fight or something, you might reconsider.

949
01:01:13,146 --> 01:01:14,286
They crossed the line.

950
01:01:14,366 --> 01:01:15,766
The tradeoff is not worth it anymore.

951
01:01:16,286 --> 01:01:19,026
And now you shift or taxes go up to 90% or something.

952
01:01:19,466 --> 01:01:25,086
So you're constantly evaluating what do I get from living in a particular place versus what is the cost to me?

953
01:01:26,066 --> 01:01:28,046
Again, these are trade-offs we shouldn't have to make.

954
01:01:28,666 --> 01:01:31,906
In a rational, free world, there are no trade-offs.

955
01:01:31,986 --> 01:01:32,546
You're left alone.

956
01:01:33,446 --> 01:01:35,766
You live the kind of life you want to live.

957
01:01:36,086 --> 01:01:39,646
Now, there's always, in a sense, trade-off, in a sense that I could be doing this with

958
01:01:39,646 --> 01:01:40,666
my time versus that.

959
01:01:41,546 --> 01:01:43,586
But there wouldn't be these coercive trade-offs.

960
01:01:43,666 --> 01:01:46,206
They wouldn't be, OK, I have to put up with coercion.

961
01:01:46,266 --> 01:01:47,166
I have to put up with force.

962
01:01:47,166 --> 01:01:50,886
I have to put up with violence so I can live a reasonable life.

963
01:01:50,946 --> 01:01:52,406
That is a horrible trade-off.

964
01:01:53,386 --> 01:01:56,026
But that's reality that we live in.

965
01:01:56,626 --> 01:01:58,826
You should fight that reality intellectually,

966
01:01:59,226 --> 01:02:03,486
but to fight it every day emotionally will drain you and crush you.

967
01:02:03,846 --> 01:02:06,826
At some point, you have to accept this is the world.

968
01:02:07,146 --> 01:02:08,146
This is the reality.

969
01:02:08,886 --> 01:02:11,026
I'm not going to change it overnight.

970
01:02:11,566 --> 01:02:13,486
I maybe can fight for long-term change,

971
01:02:13,486 --> 01:02:16,126
but it's a slow, lengthy process.

972
01:02:17,486 --> 01:02:21,486
And I'm going to accept it.

973
01:02:21,486 --> 01:02:26,626
Are you more of a stay in change or a move to a new frontier kind of person?

974
01:02:27,306 --> 01:02:34,126
I mean, given how many times I've moved in my life, I would say, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm a bit of both.

975
01:02:34,206 --> 01:02:39,806
Right. So I like change and I think I embrace change and I think change is good.

976
01:02:40,246 --> 01:02:44,446
But again, it depends. You know, you're going to change less when you have kids.

977
01:02:44,446 --> 01:02:49,466
I think I think it makes it much more difficult when you have children to to to make radical changes.

978
01:02:49,466 --> 01:02:56,266
but you never want to be, you never want to stagnate. You never want to stagnate in any

979
01:02:56,266 --> 01:03:01,066
aspect of your life. So you always want to be on the lookout for stagnation. You always want to

980
01:03:01,066 --> 01:03:05,266
look out for, I'm doing the same thing I did yesterday, exactly the same thing. Nothing's

981
01:03:05,266 --> 01:03:10,086
changing. Nothing's getting better. I could be doing better. How can I do better? Let's go do

982
01:03:10,086 --> 01:03:15,306
better. And part of that is geography. But I think most of it is not geography. Most of it is

983
01:03:15,306 --> 01:03:22,466
attitude. Most of it is how you live your life. Geography, political situation, it's not that big

984
01:03:22,466 --> 01:03:27,066
of a difference between the various countries, particularly in, let's say, in the Western world.

985
01:03:27,466 --> 01:03:33,586
They're all statist of various degrees, but they're all statist. So, you know, living in the UK,

986
01:03:33,746 --> 01:03:38,226
living in the US, the difference is marginal. Again, I think there are more opportunities in

987
01:03:38,226 --> 01:03:46,586
the U.S., so that's why I preferred it. But so much of the focus needs to be, I think, in figuring

988
01:03:46,586 --> 01:03:52,186
out what your personal values are and how to achieve them and how to pursue them in this mixed

989
01:03:52,186 --> 01:03:57,646
up, crazy, horrible, in many ways, world. And figure out, again, what's important to you and

990
01:03:57,646 --> 01:04:03,606
what's not, and the hierarchy. Weather, for example, plays a big role in my hierarchy of

991
01:04:03,606 --> 01:04:04,326
where I'm going to live.

992
01:04:05,746 --> 01:04:07,806
My wife and I will not live in a cold place.

993
01:04:08,186 --> 01:04:11,666
So that kind of limits where we're going to move to.

994
01:04:13,286 --> 01:04:16,066
There's certain places I won't go to or won't live in.

995
01:04:17,206 --> 01:04:18,886
But that's just one consideration.

996
01:04:18,886 --> 01:04:22,826
There are lots of considerations you have to constantly be thinking about.

997
01:04:23,026 --> 01:04:26,806
Do you think the statist world will decline?

998
01:04:27,486 --> 01:04:30,726
Do you think, I mean, we're on a trajectory at Pierce,

999
01:04:30,726 --> 01:04:34,806
and it's obvious the direction it's going in,

1000
01:04:34,866 --> 01:04:36,806
but do you think it's like a pendulum?

1001
01:04:37,206 --> 01:04:39,186
Does it decline at some point?

1002
01:04:40,926 --> 01:04:42,386
You mean statism declined?

1003
01:04:42,506 --> 01:04:42,786
Yes.

1004
01:04:43,006 --> 01:04:44,786
Just the statist worldview.

1005
01:04:44,906 --> 01:04:46,266
I don't think it's a pendulum.

1006
01:04:46,546 --> 01:04:50,906
I mean, you can go into a period of stagnation

1007
01:04:50,906 --> 01:04:52,546
that could last a very long time.

1008
01:04:53,086 --> 01:04:55,406
And you could go into just cultural decline

1009
01:04:55,406 --> 01:04:56,526
that can last a very long time.

1010
01:04:56,586 --> 01:04:59,506
In the West, we've had a dark ages with the fall of Rome.

1011
01:05:00,206 --> 01:05:09,146
The more I read about history, the more I see civilizations in different parts of the world, real civilizations, real achievements, then they decline and disappear and they're gone.

1012
01:05:09,806 --> 01:05:12,646
And it's not even that somebody came and killed them all.

1013
01:05:12,706 --> 01:05:17,886
It's just decline because the ideas ran, you know, they just couldn't live up to them.

1014
01:05:19,306 --> 01:05:22,026
So there's nothing inevitable.

1015
01:05:23,386 --> 01:05:27,826
Individuals, I mean, I really do believe individuals have free will and we shape the world and the culture in which we live.

1016
01:05:27,826 --> 01:05:31,966
I do think we're heading towards an era of stagnation.

1017
01:05:32,366 --> 01:05:34,106
I think we're already in it to a large extent.

1018
01:05:34,206 --> 01:05:34,806
And look at Europe.

1019
01:05:34,906 --> 01:05:36,486
Europe is barely growing economically.

1020
01:05:37,166 --> 01:05:38,666
I think the rest of the world is struggling.

1021
01:05:39,146 --> 01:05:43,586
You know, maybe Millet and Argentina are the only bright spot out there in terms of heading in the right direction.

1022
01:05:43,966 --> 01:05:45,606
Everybody else is heading in the wrong direction.

1023
01:05:46,566 --> 01:05:48,966
And so we're heading in towards a period of stagnation.

1024
01:05:49,046 --> 01:05:52,906
Now, I think, I really believe freedom wins out in the end.

1025
01:05:53,206 --> 01:05:56,646
Not because it's a pendulum, but because I think the good ideas win.

1026
01:05:56,646 --> 01:06:01,206
that the truth wins out over the long span of history.

1027
01:06:01,346 --> 01:06:02,446
It could be hundreds of years.

1028
01:06:02,546 --> 01:06:03,566
It could be 1,000 years.

1029
01:06:03,586 --> 01:06:04,006
I don't know.

1030
01:06:04,366 --> 01:06:08,226
But in the end, human beings will gravitate towards the truth.

1031
01:06:08,326 --> 01:06:10,246
They will gravitate towards good ideas.

1032
01:06:11,106 --> 01:06:16,546
In a sense, we're too young of a species for freedom.

1033
01:06:17,486 --> 01:06:22,566
99.9% of human history, 99.99%, I think, of human history

1034
01:06:22,566 --> 01:06:24,626
has been authoritarian and totalitarian.

1035
01:06:24,826 --> 01:06:25,606
We've lived in tribes.

1036
01:06:25,606 --> 01:06:27,586
We've lived in monarchies.

1037
01:06:27,766 --> 01:06:31,886
We've lived in every form of authoritarian regimes possible.

1038
01:06:32,246 --> 01:06:36,006
And then we've got this glimpse for the last 200 years of a little bit of freedom, right?

1039
01:06:36,226 --> 01:06:38,406
And not even the whole world, just a part of the world.

1040
01:06:39,984 --> 01:06:43,564
This is new. It's an exception. We're going to have to experiment with it. People are going to

1041
01:06:43,564 --> 01:06:49,084
have to learn what works and what doesn't. They might have to go through a decline and give up

1042
01:06:49,084 --> 01:06:54,604
some of that freedom before they realize how valuable it is. I don't know. But in the end

1043
01:06:54,604 --> 01:07:01,264
of the day, I think that if we hold on to these ideas, if we sustain them, if we keep talking

1044
01:07:01,264 --> 01:07:05,544
about them, if we teach them, if we preserve them, they will win.

1045
01:07:05,544 --> 01:07:09,044
So you think there is a final, there is a win.

1046
01:07:09,524 --> 01:07:12,864
I've never considered there to be an end to this.

1047
01:07:13,284 --> 01:07:15,264
I've always considered it a push and a pull.

1048
01:07:15,604 --> 01:07:16,964
No, I think there's a win.

1049
01:07:17,584 --> 01:07:21,064
The win is not the end in the sense that you're always going to have to be vigilant.

1050
01:07:21,284 --> 01:07:24,424
I mean, vigilance for liberty never ends, right?

1051
01:07:24,424 --> 01:07:29,124
You're always going to have to remind people why freedom is a good thing and why they shouldn't be tempted by these bad ideas.

1052
01:07:29,644 --> 01:07:36,484
It'll be a lot easier once they internalize the good ideas and the good ideas are dominating the intellectual space.

1053
01:07:36,584 --> 01:07:38,084
That has never happened in human history.

1054
01:07:38,084 --> 01:07:47,884
We got close in the Enlightenment, but the Enlightenment was too young and too flawed and too mixed up and philosophically.

1055
01:07:48,464 --> 01:07:50,564
But I do think there's an end.

1056
01:07:50,684 --> 01:07:58,044
I do think there's a – it's not a utopia, but there's a state in which we will be free or at least a significant number of us will be free.

1057
01:07:58,384 --> 01:07:59,664
Maybe it turns out to be Mars.

1058
01:07:59,984 --> 01:08:00,784
I don't know.

1059
01:08:01,024 --> 01:08:02,564
Maybe it turns out to be seasteading.

1060
01:08:02,604 --> 01:08:03,184
I doubt it.

1061
01:08:03,624 --> 01:08:10,144
Just because the powers to be, I mean, this is my view of a lot of these projects, if I can be negative about them for a minute.

1062
01:08:10,144 --> 01:08:10,504
Absolutely.

1063
01:08:12,504 --> 01:08:19,064
The more successful they are, the more the powers to be won't allow them to succeed further.

1064
01:08:20,364 --> 01:08:25,204
So imagine you establish a free city in the middle of the ocean.

1065
01:08:25,604 --> 01:08:27,744
It doesn't rely on any government.

1066
01:08:27,744 --> 01:08:29,164
It hasn't got a charter from anybody.

1067
01:08:29,324 --> 01:08:30,364
It's a completely free city.

1068
01:08:30,944 --> 01:08:32,404
And you have free banking on the city.

1069
01:08:32,524 --> 01:08:38,944
And the free banking means total privacy, no money laundering laws, complete privacy.

1070
01:08:39,124 --> 01:08:42,404
How long do you think the United States will allow you to do that?

1071
01:08:42,804 --> 01:08:45,244
How long before the Navy shows up and shuts you down?

1072
01:08:45,744 --> 01:08:47,524
I think it's a matter of hours.

1073
01:08:48,724 --> 01:08:49,584
Well, it depends.

1074
01:08:49,764 --> 01:08:52,444
I mean, maritime law is very, very old and ancient.

1075
01:08:52,964 --> 01:08:55,164
I mean, right now, we're talking about maritime law.

1076
01:08:55,164 --> 01:09:02,244
Right now, the United States is blowing up boats off the coast of Venezuela and Colombia.

1077
01:09:02,904 --> 01:09:07,064
There's no maritime law in the world that justifies what's going on right now.

1078
01:09:07,144 --> 01:09:11,884
They're killing people without even presenting evidence.

1079
01:09:12,284 --> 01:09:14,824
There's no terrorist list of most wanted people.

1080
01:09:15,424 --> 01:09:16,924
We don't know who's being killed.

1081
01:09:17,084 --> 01:09:18,044
Nobody's being named.

1082
01:09:18,364 --> 01:09:20,204
They're just blowing up stuff in the middle of the sea.

1083
01:09:20,204 --> 01:09:23,204
You think the United States Navy gives one iota?

1084
01:09:23,204 --> 01:09:26,744
for a large floating city though.

1085
01:09:26,984 --> 01:09:28,904
I think maybe that would become...

1086
01:09:28,904 --> 01:09:30,684
What about you just surrounded

1087
01:09:30,684 --> 01:09:32,264
and don't allow any supplies in

1088
01:09:32,264 --> 01:09:34,084
until they change their laws about banking?

1089
01:09:35,164 --> 01:09:38,684
I would still think there would be a scale issue there.

1090
01:09:38,764 --> 01:09:40,964
If it was a large settlement, I think...

1091
01:09:40,964 --> 01:09:44,464
I think you're overly optimistic

1092
01:09:44,464 --> 01:09:48,384
and you don't realize how seriously bad these people are.

1093
01:09:48,384 --> 01:09:52,284
But the thing about, you know, Seasteaders,

1094
01:09:52,284 --> 01:09:57,764
for example is they can very much live at the fringes even in a very large way that and they

1095
01:09:57,764 --> 01:10:03,604
living at the fringes is is part of the process sometimes i get i get i get that if you want to

1096
01:10:03,604 --> 01:10:09,764
live in the fringes yes you can do it i'm saying if you establish a real place which has banking

1097
01:10:09,764 --> 01:10:14,804
and has yeah i'm talking about that i mean that as well it you know i mean there's parts of the

1098
01:10:14,804 --> 01:10:19,184
ocean that they will shut it down in an instant the united states navy can reach any part of the

1099
01:10:19,184 --> 01:10:21,184
ocean they want to. Yes, but why would

1100
01:10:21,184 --> 01:10:23,184
they? Why would the US Navy go

1101
01:10:23,184 --> 01:10:25,244
to the middle? There's a, well, I forget what that, because

1102
01:10:25,244 --> 01:10:27,384
you're money laundering. I mean, the United States

1103
01:10:27,384 --> 01:10:29,344
today... Yeah, but the money laundering is happening all over the world

1104
01:10:29,344 --> 01:10:31,444
already. Yeah, and they try to shut it down. The United States

1105
01:10:31,444 --> 01:10:33,164
today has... Not in China, though.

1106
01:10:33,184 --> 01:10:35,324
Has troops in 120 different countries.

1107
01:10:35,404 --> 01:10:37,284
But yeah, there's a lot of places they don't have troops.

1108
01:10:38,244 --> 01:10:39,304
But primarily places

1109
01:10:39,304 --> 01:10:41,844
like China, where they would fight them.

1110
01:10:41,924 --> 01:10:43,364
I suspect that there is

1111
01:10:43,364 --> 01:10:44,984
a limit to how much

1112
01:10:44,984 --> 01:10:47,284
control over

1113
01:10:47,284 --> 01:10:51,284
the whole planet one entity requires?

1114
01:10:51,284 --> 01:11:04,764
Well it not in the United States right China doesn have an incentive for you to have something where Chinese citizens can use it in order to get their money out of China Which we already have as well Yeah I mean we have that system But they want to clamp down as much as they can

1115
01:11:04,764 --> 01:11:09,804
Yeah, and they can't. They try, but it doesn't work. People send Bitcoin in and out of China

1116
01:11:09,804 --> 01:11:15,864
constantly. Sure. But it's constantly a battle, and it will continue to constantly be a battle.

1117
01:11:15,864 --> 01:11:21,304
My point is that you better be prepared for a battle. And when there's a physical location,

1118
01:11:21,304 --> 01:11:24,044
then it's much easier.

1119
01:11:24,124 --> 01:11:26,504
One of the reasons you can get Bitcoin in and out

1120
01:11:26,504 --> 01:11:29,644
because it has no physical locale.

1121
01:11:30,404 --> 01:11:34,924
A city, a state, a free city, a free state

1122
01:11:34,924 --> 01:11:36,224
has a physical location

1123
01:11:36,224 --> 01:11:38,884
and it better be ready to defend itself.

1124
01:11:39,324 --> 01:11:40,184
No, I agree.

1125
01:11:40,344 --> 01:11:42,644
There is no perfect way to do this.

1126
01:11:43,084 --> 01:11:44,624
Arguably though, seasteading,

1127
01:11:44,964 --> 01:11:47,364
if you're talking about the future version of it,

1128
01:11:47,384 --> 01:11:48,844
which are large floating cities,

1129
01:11:48,844 --> 01:11:54,264
They are one of the most perfect manifestations of the idea because they can actually move.

1130
01:11:54,984 --> 01:12:01,024
And they will also be a precursor to intergalactic travel in some point.

1131
01:12:01,364 --> 01:12:03,344
I mean, that's the advantage of intergalactic travel, right?

1132
01:12:03,504 --> 01:12:03,644
Yeah.

1133
01:12:03,784 --> 01:12:08,324
You know, it's very hard for the U.S. Navy to get to Mars.

1134
01:12:08,904 --> 01:12:14,704
So the isolation is a huge advantage in creating something new in other planets.

1135
01:12:14,904 --> 01:12:17,424
Yeah, I mean, I'm excited about that.

1136
01:12:17,424 --> 01:12:25,264
I'm less excited about the prospects for that on Earth because I think it's all accessible versus, you know.

1137
01:12:25,524 --> 01:12:27,184
But we're on a journey here.

1138
01:12:27,244 --> 01:12:32,104
I mean, like you say, in your hierarchy of needs, how much do you want freedom?

1139
01:12:32,344 --> 01:12:32,844
Value, sorry.

1140
01:12:32,984 --> 01:12:34,444
How much do you want your freedom?

1141
01:12:34,544 --> 01:12:38,544
Because really the UN has made a claim on outer space pretty much.

1142
01:12:38,644 --> 01:12:40,504
There's a 1960s agreement.

1143
01:12:40,684 --> 01:12:41,684
Go enforce it.

1144
01:12:41,844 --> 01:12:42,384
Right, exactly.

1145
01:12:42,384 --> 01:12:47,744
When Elon gets to Mars, if he puts the labor in, that's his property.

1146
01:12:47,904 --> 01:12:50,944
It's obvious because no one's going to be able to stop him.

1147
01:12:51,584 --> 01:13:00,884
Yes, but I also think that Elon is probably smart enough, you know, to build a nuke on Mars, to build the capacity to defend himself.

1148
01:13:01,384 --> 01:13:01,564
Right?

1149
01:13:01,624 --> 01:13:05,884
Because at the end of the day, you better be able to defend yourself physically in the physical world.

1150
01:13:06,264 --> 01:13:09,324
You can live digitally and that's fine.

1151
01:13:09,324 --> 01:13:12,524
But at the end of the day, we eat and live and have sex in the physical world.

1152
01:13:13,604 --> 01:13:17,084
And that can be, you know, somebody can shoot you in the physical world.

1153
01:13:17,164 --> 01:13:19,504
You better be able to defend yourself in the physical world.

1154
01:13:19,564 --> 01:13:26,264
And I would urge anybody seeking freedom to think about self-defense as an aspect of freedom.

1155
01:13:26,364 --> 01:13:27,964
There's no freedom if you can't defend yourself.

1156
01:13:29,104 --> 01:13:36,664
So I hope Elon in his plan for an independent whatever in Mars is thinking about what if, you know,

1157
01:13:36,664 --> 01:13:40,284
the US spaceship shows up and tries to take us over.

1158
01:13:40,624 --> 01:13:41,904
How do we protect ourselves?

1159
01:13:42,144 --> 01:13:43,924
And my assumption is he's smart enough.

1160
01:13:45,164 --> 01:13:47,904
Or other people, you know, this might not be in his lifetime.

1161
01:13:48,324 --> 01:13:50,544
Other people think about, yes, we need, you know,

1162
01:13:50,584 --> 01:13:55,764
if you read science fiction, it's part of the way they conceive

1163
01:13:55,764 --> 01:13:59,284
about, you know, colonies on other planets.

1164
01:14:00,024 --> 01:14:00,504
Sure.

1165
01:14:00,624 --> 01:14:04,284
I mean, it's also a question of frontiers, you know.

1166
01:14:04,284 --> 01:14:10,244
frontiers have always been the fringe that people look for freedom in and we don't have many left

1167
01:14:10,244 --> 01:14:15,964
the sea is currently still a frontier frontiers historically not anymore for a variety of reasons

1168
01:14:15,964 --> 01:14:21,184
but historically have always been violent of course yeah yeah because you have to protect yourself but

1169
01:14:21,184 --> 01:14:26,624
when they're vast yes and the bigger they are the better you better and you better be able to defend

1170
01:14:26,624 --> 01:14:31,784
yourself wherever you are well i agree with that and i i'm i'm being a bit facetious but the the i

1171
01:14:31,784 --> 01:14:38,164
I mean, because we talk about this a lot in our movement, and we're going through a moderately,

1172
01:14:38,564 --> 01:14:41,464
I mean, it's a soft version of that right now in Prospera.

1173
01:14:41,904 --> 01:14:45,044
You know, the socialists are coming after the free city.

1174
01:14:45,264 --> 01:14:47,784
And actually what we're seeing is relatively positive.

1175
01:14:48,604 --> 01:14:53,684
They are cowering under, you know, you can protect a physical place with more than just guns.

1176
01:14:54,204 --> 01:14:56,824
You've got legal protections, you've got community protections,

1177
01:14:56,824 --> 01:15:02,504
You've got economic incentive protections, which are all part of your plan to secure a place.

1178
01:15:02,504 --> 01:15:09,304
And they, in Prospero, we're pleasantly surprised to see the very authoritarian end of the spectrum

1179
01:15:09,304 --> 01:15:23,024
try and shut something down and then not do it And not doing it yeah so yeah i mean you know i positive about it anyway but i mean anyway i i gonna i gonna wrap it up i think let end on a

1180
01:15:23,024 --> 01:15:28,264
positive note not on a free cities are all doomed to be killed uh or to be doomed to be attacked the

1181
01:15:28,264 --> 01:15:31,304
other thing is of course i don't think the government's going to be attacking elon in

1182
01:15:31,304 --> 01:15:35,924
space it's going to be another corporation i don't think the government will make it to mars

1183
01:15:35,924 --> 01:15:44,604
I mean, who knows? Yeah. I mean, governments are very good at confiscating technology and taking it over. But yes, it might be another corporation. It might be another entity.

1184
01:15:45,324 --> 01:15:45,864
But –

1185
01:15:45,864 --> 01:15:46,764
What would I –

1186
01:15:46,764 --> 01:15:56,344
And, you know, generally, look, at the end of the day, if the world is heading towards more statism, then the world will become more violent, not less.

1187
01:15:57,084 --> 01:16:04,224
And if the world's heading towards more freedom, then there'll be a lot of opportunities to manifest that freedom in a variety of different ways politically.

1188
01:16:04,224 --> 01:16:06,704
if we're heading in that direction.

1189
01:16:06,824 --> 01:16:07,484
I hope we are.

1190
01:16:07,924 --> 01:16:10,624
But I worry that as we head towards more statism,

1191
01:16:11,144 --> 01:16:15,204
as, you know, again, I look at Donald Trump right now

1192
01:16:15,204 --> 01:16:18,404
blowing ships out of the water in the Caribbean Sea

1193
01:16:18,404 --> 01:16:21,264
and nobody's saying anything about it pretty much.

1194
01:16:21,684 --> 01:16:23,424
And people still loving Donald Trump

1195
01:16:23,424 --> 01:16:25,144
and thinking he was God's gift to America.

1196
01:16:25,944 --> 01:16:27,784
And he's just killing people.

1197
01:16:28,464 --> 01:16:31,244
And, you know, everybody just shrugs and moves on.

1198
01:16:31,604 --> 01:16:33,924
That is scary level authoritarianism.

1199
01:16:34,224 --> 01:16:41,504
What do you think Ayn's opinion of this movement would be then, the Free Cities kind of ecosystem?

1200
01:16:43,184 --> 01:16:50,404
I mean, she would argue that it will succeed to the extent that it's based on a proper philosophical foundation.

1201
01:16:50,624 --> 01:16:56,584
And she would worry that it's not, which was her worry for much of the free market movement.

1202
01:16:56,804 --> 01:17:03,404
She worried that it did not ground itself in the proper philosophical foundation and therefore was doomed to fail.

1203
01:17:03,404 --> 01:17:05,744
and so far she's been proven right

1204
01:17:05,744 --> 01:17:08,364
in a sense that since she died

1205
01:17:08,364 --> 01:17:10,624
things have become worse, not better

1206
01:17:10,624 --> 01:17:12,904
and I think she predicted that

1207
01:17:12,904 --> 01:17:15,984
so she would advocate

1208
01:17:15,984 --> 01:17:19,144
A, she'd advocate don't give up on civilization

1209
01:17:19,144 --> 01:17:21,984
that is, yes, you can always run away

1210
01:17:21,984 --> 01:17:24,044
to some desert island and live over there

1211
01:17:24,044 --> 01:17:27,084
and particularly if you don't stick your head up too much

1212
01:17:27,084 --> 01:17:29,404
and rattle the cages

1213
01:17:29,404 --> 01:17:31,364
you can live there by yourself

1214
01:17:31,364 --> 01:17:32,984
but is that a life, right?

1215
01:17:32,984 --> 01:17:35,684
Is that a full life that you could live in a property?

1216
01:17:35,764 --> 01:17:36,764
She loved New York, right?

1217
01:17:37,044 --> 01:17:42,024
And she loved New York in spite of all the flaws in the city because it was civilization.

1218
01:17:42,404 --> 01:17:45,364
It was exciting that real stuff was going on there.

1219
01:17:46,404 --> 01:17:49,544
And so she would argue don't give up on civilization.

1220
01:17:49,944 --> 01:17:55,284
Let's fight, continue the struggle for freedom, but the struggle for freedom within civilization.

1221
01:17:55,524 --> 01:17:57,784
And the struggle ultimately is not political.

1222
01:17:58,244 --> 01:17:59,724
The struggle ultimately is philosophical.

1223
01:17:59,964 --> 01:18:01,044
It's ultimately ideological.

1224
01:18:01,044 --> 01:18:03,404
Let's teach people the value of freedom.

1225
01:18:03,884 --> 01:18:05,804
Let's teach them the value of their own lives.

1226
01:18:06,424 --> 01:18:13,844
Let's teach them to be self-interested, to want to be happy, and then make the connection between happiness and freedom.

1227
01:18:14,064 --> 01:18:17,044
You cannot be happy unless you're at least somewhat free.

1228
01:18:17,504 --> 01:18:21,944
And the freer you are, the more the possibilities regarding happiness only expand.

1229
01:18:21,944 --> 01:18:34,644
so so you know ultimately freedom will come about when people reject the morality of sacrifice the

1230
01:18:34,644 --> 01:18:40,544
morality of altruism you know freedom will come about when people embrace reason freedom will come

1231
01:18:40,544 --> 01:18:47,324
about when people start valuing their own lives above all else yeah thank you I wonder if I was

1232
01:18:47,324 --> 01:18:54,244
just thinking i wonder if iron would live in new york right now you know look i know a lot of people

1233
01:18:54,244 --> 01:18:59,204
who live in new york right now and in new york and i visit new york quite frequently and new york

1234
01:18:59,204 --> 01:19:03,304
was horrible during covid and and to a large extent people were saying new york will never

1235
01:19:03,304 --> 01:19:09,504
recover and new york's thriving you know new york's doing phenomenally well crime rates are down

1236
01:19:09,504 --> 01:19:15,364
uh you know people are busy it's it's just as energetic and exciting as it's always been

1237
01:19:15,364 --> 01:19:19,164
And there's still a great opera house there, and there's still a great museum there.

1238
01:19:19,164 --> 01:19:24,104
And there's still, if you're in finance, there's no better jobs in the world that you can get

1239
01:19:24,104 --> 01:19:25,104
in New York.

1240
01:19:25,104 --> 01:19:38,584
Now if Mamdani wins New York will decline for a period But my guess is New York will come back Crime rates will go up under Momdani because you shrink the police and it be dirtier and it be all of that But there there a bit of

1241
01:19:38,584 --> 01:19:45,384
a pendulum. I do think there's a bit of a pendulum. But we tend to be way too down on the world.

1242
01:19:47,204 --> 01:19:51,244
I want to live free. And again, I live in Puerto Rico for a variety of reasons and

1243
01:19:51,244 --> 01:19:57,664
many of them have to do with taxes. But when I go to New York, I'm energized. I mean, it's still

1244
01:19:57,664 --> 01:19:58,904
and energetic place.

1245
01:19:59,404 --> 01:20:01,724
I'm a finance guy, and if you want to do finance,

1246
01:20:02,284 --> 01:20:04,464
there's no better place in the world to be

1247
01:20:04,464 --> 01:20:06,344
than in New York City.

1248
01:20:06,684 --> 01:20:07,784
They're changing the world.

1249
01:20:08,844 --> 01:20:11,544
And Silicon Valley is in California.

1250
01:20:11,644 --> 01:20:12,484
California is horrible.

1251
01:20:12,604 --> 01:20:14,944
It's got high taxes and regulations and controls

1252
01:20:14,944 --> 01:20:16,444
and a bunch of leftists.

1253
01:20:16,444 --> 01:20:18,824
And yet, if you want to start a company,

1254
01:20:19,964 --> 01:20:22,604
and there's no more, right now in AI,

1255
01:20:22,704 --> 01:20:24,624
we talked about AI, if you want to start,

1256
01:20:24,844 --> 01:20:27,544
if you get into AI, San Francisco's the place

1257
01:20:27,544 --> 01:20:28,604
Forget about the homeless.

1258
01:20:28,764 --> 01:20:29,564
Forget about all that.

1259
01:20:30,044 --> 01:20:33,624
You're going to be in San Francisco, and you're going to do really well in San Francisco,

1260
01:20:34,024 --> 01:20:36,424
and it's an exciting, energetic place.

1261
01:20:37,224 --> 01:20:47,284
So, again, we tend to over-focus on the negative, and there's a lot of positives in the world.

1262
01:20:47,984 --> 01:20:53,884
And if you are ambitious and if you want to do something with your life, there's still

1263
01:20:53,884 --> 01:20:58,484
plenty of places where you can do that, plenty of opportunities for you to do that. Don't give up

1264
01:20:58,484 --> 01:21:03,704
on your life because you're paying high taxes. There's still, I mean, you should be pissed off

1265
01:21:03,704 --> 01:21:08,264
you're paying high taxes and you should try to minimize them. But at the same time, you want to

1266
01:21:08,264 --> 01:21:14,124
maximize your life. And the question is, how do you maximize your life? And, you know, there are

1267
01:21:14,124 --> 01:21:20,384
lots of ways and lots of places you can do that in. The hierarchy of values. I'm taking that one

1268
01:21:20,384 --> 01:21:25,564
away with me. I love the way that's framed. And I agree because I do fall into that. I fall into

1269
01:21:25,564 --> 01:21:29,264
that trap myself. And that's an Ayn Rand, you know, that's an Ayn Rand concept. I mean, it's

1270
01:21:29,264 --> 01:21:35,444
very fundamental to philosophy is that to be self-interested, to live a moral life,

1271
01:21:36,044 --> 01:21:39,764
you've got to gather. And at the top of the hierarchy, the most important values are the

1272
01:21:39,764 --> 01:21:45,984
abstract values, the moral values. But then you start breaking down to family and the place you

1273
01:21:45,984 --> 01:21:50,884
live and your career and the art you like and how you want to spend your time.

1274
01:21:51,044 --> 01:21:56,404
And, you know, the car, you know, if you really want a nice car, you know, you put in a hierarchy

1275
01:21:56,404 --> 01:22:00,224
and car hopefully is relatively low and some other things are higher up.

1276
01:22:00,664 --> 01:22:02,464
But we all are different.

1277
01:22:02,624 --> 01:22:06,384
So we're all going to have different, when it comes to the concretes of life, beyond

1278
01:22:06,384 --> 01:22:10,164
the abstract moral values, we're all going to have different hierarchies of values.

1279
01:22:10,164 --> 01:22:12,384
And that's what should guide my life.

1280
01:22:12,384 --> 01:22:15,764
you know we shouldn't

1281
01:22:15,764 --> 01:22:17,064
too many people I think

1282
01:22:17,064 --> 01:22:20,184
in this world that we were just at a conference

1283
01:22:20,184 --> 01:22:22,124
of too many people have this

1284
01:22:22,124 --> 01:22:24,244
abstraction of freedom and that

1285
01:22:24,244 --> 01:22:25,684
is all they care about and that's

1286
01:22:25,684 --> 01:22:27,604
what they go for and

1287
01:22:27,604 --> 01:22:29,784
they forget that life is

1288
01:22:29,784 --> 01:22:32,264
you know there's a lot to life

1289
01:22:32,264 --> 01:22:34,144
and

1290
01:22:34,144 --> 01:22:35,704
certainly you don't want to live in

1291
01:22:35,704 --> 01:22:37,464
an unfree place

1292
01:22:37,464 --> 01:22:40,124
but since

1293
01:22:40,124 --> 01:22:41,684
we don't have a completely free place

1294
01:22:41,684 --> 01:22:45,784
a suddenly completely free place with all the attributes of civilization,

1295
01:22:46,624 --> 01:22:49,684
you've got to think about all the trade-offs.

1296
01:22:49,964 --> 01:22:52,804
And in that sense, you've got to really develop higher-care values

1297
01:22:52,804 --> 01:22:53,664
and live by it.

1298
01:22:55,304 --> 01:22:55,744
Wonderful.

1299
01:22:56,264 --> 01:22:57,764
Aaron, thank you very much indeed.

1300
01:22:57,924 --> 01:23:01,264
Spending a little bit of time off stage, I really enjoyed your talk.

1301
01:23:01,344 --> 01:23:01,664
Thank you.

1302
01:23:01,724 --> 01:23:04,884
And now I just like a lovely thanks for the one-to-one.

1303
01:23:05,484 --> 01:23:07,804
I feel like it was a bit of a pep talk, which is really good.

1304
01:23:08,324 --> 01:23:10,824
And I hope that listeners get a bit.

1305
01:23:10,824 --> 01:23:13,684
I hope that someone else tunes into it as well,

1306
01:23:13,744 --> 01:23:17,544
because sometimes you need people to lay it out in a simple way like that.

1307
01:23:17,604 --> 01:23:23,964
I think a lot of us do fall into the trap of visualizing the freedom,

1308
01:23:23,964 --> 01:23:27,484
and then when we don't see it in our lives, berating it.

1309
01:23:27,504 --> 01:23:28,204
Super frustrating.

1310
01:23:28,384 --> 01:23:28,604
Yeah.

1311
01:23:28,984 --> 01:23:32,644
But anyway, many, many thanks indeed, and I hope to see you another time.

1312
01:23:32,764 --> 01:23:32,944
Sure.

1313
01:23:40,824 --> 01:24:10,804
Thank you.