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Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast

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of the Free Cities Foundation.

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Hello and welcome to this episode number 167 of the Free Cities podcast,

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brought to you by the wonderful Veritas Villages. Veritas Villages are our lead sponsor,

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of course, and they're building off-grid freedom-oriented communities in Latin America.

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These communities will almost certainly appeal to you if you're a freedom lover,

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looking to live amongst like-minded individuals in places like Nicaragua, Panama and Costa Rica.

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And if you're a Bitcoiner like me, you can buy your property with Bitcoin.

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You can spend BTC at Veritas Village Communities and they can even help you mine Bitcoin

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with the excess energy that your self-sufficient home will inevitably produce.

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www.veritasvillages.com forward slash free cities please mention us if you choose to do business

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with them patrick their ceo has been on the show a couple of times look in the show notes for links

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to those interviews listen to him speak about the project and decide whether you would like to do

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business with them right talking of central america where all the veritas villages are

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Today's episode is a conversation with someone who's very candid about his enthusiasm for that part of the world.

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Today I'm joined by Mikkel Thorup.

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He's an offshore consultant who's spent 25 years on the road,

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visiting more than 120 countries and built a life around, I suppose, the question,

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where can families live with the most real world freedom today?

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he's ended up in Central America listen on to see whether that might be an option for you

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as well here's the AI summary we start with travel and the psychology of culture then move

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into a surprisingly candid discussion about why freedom means different things to different

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societies why Mikkel thinks the West often hides its control while China is more upfront about it

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and how that trade-off shapes people's choices.

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The AI is getting a bit chatty today.

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There must have been a new update or something from there.

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Mikel breaks down why he's based in Panama,

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what makes territorial tax systems so attractive to high earners and early retirees,

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and why he believes LATAM, Latin America,

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is quietly becoming the world's most relevant freedom arbitrage.

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We also get into UBI, CBDCs and the danger of purpose-free living.

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Non-intentional living, I suppose that's another way of saying.

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Plus why physical communities and in-person networks matter more than, inverted commas, countries on the internet.

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Even if the internet is still part of the strategy.

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It's getting really chatty.

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If you're feeling stuck in a place you love culturally but hate politically, this conversation is basically a field guide to staying optimistic without being naive while keeping your options open in a world that's tightening up.

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That sounds like my stance during the conversation.

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Actually, I think I was being a little bit negative.

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That's the sense I got listening back to it.

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I was a bit black-pilled on the world at this particular moment but it's also worth mentioning

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because I noticed this listening back to some of these interviews and this was one of them

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I was acutely aware of how tired I had actually become during this interview lots of r's and ums

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and it's funny I've noticed that my brain does start slowing down after a certain period of time

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This was my fourth interview of that day.

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And I think what I'm realizing is that my mind works best at about two or three interviews.

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But at four, I start to get a bit suboptimal, which you may discover in this particular interview.

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Maybe I'm just getting old.

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Surely that can't be.

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Anyway, value for value heroes.

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Many thanks to you.

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I appreciate you.

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and a big hi this week to Aaron brand new sub thank you you made it into the OG category as

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far as I'm concerned so congratulations and welcome comments this week um let's have a look

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we've got hypno from seedkeys.xyz it's a good way to get a little add-on here isn't it I wonder what

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Seed keys dot X, Y, Z is.

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He says, anyway, some good insights here.

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He's talking about Yaron Brook.

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Why Atlas Shrugged keeps happening.

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I don't agree with some of Yaron's points.

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And I had a hard time with his style sometimes.

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I guess it's the PhD talk.

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But I enjoyed what I got out of the discussion.

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Yeah, I kind of I could kind of go with that.

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He's a seasoned speaker, obviously.

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And you get that sense.

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and that's maybe what you're referring to there in the phd talk he has his own very popular youtube

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channel and i think he does it every single day more than an hour so there's a lot of talking

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points there that have already been talked uh right next in line how do i say that nadeshal

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nadeshal i wonder what that means i'm just going to look that up pronounce nadeshal and meaning

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nadeschlu oh nadeschlu nadeschlu or nadeschle oh i love a new good word likely a rare german

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or swiss german surname with no widely agreed meaning it may derive from a regional nickname

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or an altered place or family name so precise definition is uncertain let's go with a super

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German Swiss surname. Anyway, Nadeshlu's comment was about the news, the Venezuelan news episode,

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which I put out after our call the other day. Best news in centuries. And I would tend to agree

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with you there if you've missed that news report. It was from one of our private foundation calls

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and check it out.

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Very optimistic views from inside Venezuela at the moment.

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And I try and summarize them in that episode.

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Right.

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It's all happening in Latin America.

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Hey, big episode about LATAM, Venezuela.

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Is it going to be Cuba next?

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I think a lot of people think so.

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Anyway, right.

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Time for the conversation.

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Time to find freedom and, of course, your best life.

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whilst you sit back, relax and enjoy my conversation with Mikhail Thorup.

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How did you find Kazakhstan then?

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Kazakhstan was okay. Kyrgyzstan was a pleasant surprise. It was pretty spectacular actually.

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Do you like wilderness places and stuff?

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I do but I am more interested in people I would say like if I think about why I like to travel

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yes natural beauty is one thing I like the mountains sure but I like meeting people I

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think people are very very interesting well there's a good start then I'm the same I've I spent many

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years um making documentaries purely about people but not necessarily modern people okay Are you interested in that side of people the kind of origins of people Very much You know I like a lot of the history I been traveling for 25 years straight now

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And I think that is what drives me a lot of times

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is trying to understand,

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like, why do certain people do certain things?

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You know, it's the perspective of a group of people.

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And it's like, okay, well, why do you eat this type of food?

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Why is the language like this?

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Why is your mindset like that?

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You know, we get so caught up in the West on, you know, like our, our Western society,

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you know, Western democracies are, are the best in the way that everybody should be.

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And it's just like, well, that's not really the case.

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You know, there's actually a lot of different civilizations.

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There's a lot of different ways to view the world and perspective is really, really interesting.

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My wife is from mainland China.

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And a lot of people kind of think that she's, you know, maybe what we would call an ABC,

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American born Chinese.

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And it's like, no, no, she was born and raised in China for more than 20 years. Her first language is Mandarin, you know, and the way that China is under attack right now by the West and trying to be painted as the villain is ridiculous.

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Like in a lot of cases, these are normal people who want the same thing as everybody else.

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And we're just being manipulated by governments to try to vilify each other's population so that they can, you know, go to war with one another and throw stones.

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And it makes no sense.

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And when you try to understand things from other people's perspectives, you know, you realize that we really are the same in a lot of these cases.

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We want the same things.

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We want a roof over our head and, you know, a full belly.

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We want to be loved and we want to give love.

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You know, these types of things are the same.

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But I find, you know, the cultural aspects of traveling and seeing people in their native environment super, super interesting.

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What do you think then about the human quality of desiring liberty and freedom?

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Because it doesn't appear to be as widespread as you might think.

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Like when you, if you've got kids.

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I got four.

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Right.

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Kids, you know, open the car door next to a big field and the kids just run out into the field.

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They want freedom.

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And you could easily conclude from that that, yeah, we just all want freedom.

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But by the time you make it into the world we're in, you kind of, I think anyway, you kind of see it's actually quite a minority of people that actually really want it.

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So what's going on there?

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I think that a lot of people, they, if you ask them, do they want freedom?

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Sure, I want freedom.

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But what does that mean?

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And, you know, there's so many different types of freedom.

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I think that we have to get a little bit more granular on these types of things.

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So it's okay.

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Freedom of speech.

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So I can say what I want to say.

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Okay.

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Freedom of assembly.

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I can go.

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I can protest.

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I can, you know, have my voice heard.

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Freedom of movement.

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This is a big portion of my work as an offshore consultant.

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It's freedom of movement to be able to cross borders or travel or enter into, to visit to

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different places.

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But there's all kinds of negative freedoms as well.

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Freedom from coercion, freedom from violence and things like this.

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I think if you start looking at that and you asking people like, do you want to live in a safe country? It's like, yes, I want to live in a safe country. You know, you can you can list all these things. We're going to agree about all of them. But everything in life is is a give and take. So I've seen people living in, you know, dictatorships who are fine because of certain things that they get out of this relationship, you know, and I'm very much a voluntarist. I believe that people can do with what they want.

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if you, you know, to tie it back to China, if you ask Chinese people, they're super happy.

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They love being in China. China is amazing for them. They have so much opportunity. They can do

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anything they want in the world, as long as it is within these confines. You know, if we look at it

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from the US perspective, it's not a free country whatsoever. Although I think there is some, you

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know, major misunderstanding about what China is and what China is not. And I think that that's not

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by accident. I think a lot of this is just mainstream media and, you know, just a slander

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campaign. I'm not saying that I believe China is a free place by any stretch of the imagination.

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I'm just talking about perspective. They've been willing to give up certain freedoms to gain others.

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What does your wife think when she looks back then? I take it you live,

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you both live outside of China. We do, we do. We live in Panama City, Panama,

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which I would make the argument is the most libertarian place in the world. You have more

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freedoms there than anywhere I've seen. And by the way, I've traveled to more than 120 countries.

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So I actually kind of know what I'm talking about. I've actually been out here for 25 years

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searching for freedom, looking for freedom in all of its forms. I feel very free in Panama.

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Now, a lot of people would probably make an assumption that my wife like fled China or she

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was searching for freedom. And that's why she left. No, she left because she wanted an adventure.

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She wanted to go and do something new, and her parents were very open to the idea and encouraged her to go out into the world and travel and learn new languages and have international experience.

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But her parents still live in China.

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We still go back to China many times a year.

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It's been a little bit more difficult in Panama, but when we lived in the UAE for a decade, we were there many, many times a year.

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My kids speak Mandarin Chinese.

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you know my wife does one parent one language so she only speaks to the kids in mandarin

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but i mean i think that if i could work from china and get past the great firewall i think

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she'd be very happy to move back to china uh it's not something that you know i'm willing to do or

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would want to do but um you know once again perspective is very interesting what do you

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think about that if you look at i mean a lot of people think i suppose that the the future holds

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two kind of worlds one would be the authoritarian techno state type which i i think it's fair to say

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we see a pretty advanced version of that currently in china the the the fact that there are scores

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for algorithmic scores for things this kind of stuff which from one perspective it's a super

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efficient way to do away with the need even really for lawyers and legal things you just stop people

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doing things using algorithms and then on the other hand you've got this other world of i suppose

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the the libertarian west which obviously arguably doesn't exist but but if you if you if you if you

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were to look at america you could say the spirit is probably there somewhere this idea that there's

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the frontier. Buried deep. Yeah, buried, sure. Buried deep, deep, deep down.

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But so do you, I mean, first of all, do you think that that binary is real and important?

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And number two, do you think that there's no stopping this thing?

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You know, here's my opinion. China is very upfront about things, and the West are a bunch

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of liars. So it's not that China has this totalitarian regime, techno state, etc, etc.

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The West has it too, but it's hidden. It's under the surface, but it's there. It's the same. It is

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absolutely the same. It's just one is in your face about it and one is not. I'll give you an example.

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So China had the one child policy, right? They looked at it and they had this Malthusian type of

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thought process that there's too many people and we're going to run out of resources. So we're

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going to only allow populations to have one child. Okay. I completely disagree with this perspective.

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I think it's wrong on every single level. I stand in stark opposition of it. I think that we need

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more people and more children. Okay. But just run with me on this. China was very upfront about the

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one child policy. The U S and Canada and then these Western so-called Western democracies were

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not. But what do they do? They do mandatory vaccination for children under the age of six

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years old, they do programs that sterilize people, they encourage people to have families later and

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later and later, where you're now butting into biological age restraints. So now, the same type

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of thing happened it still most families will only have one child or maybe on average you looking at the US which is one of the highest numbers is 1 children per female Okay Canada is lower You know if you look at Spain or Italy they at like 1

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If you look at Korea or Japan, they're sub one.

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So we actually have a population collapse.

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China did it and told you what they were doing.

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And Western democracy did the same thing, but they hid about it and they lied about it.

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you you if you want to understand me tim you have to understand i hate liars okay like i hate the

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the hypocrisy of the whole thing right so um i would rather be in a type of situation where

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we are absolutely free on all of these types of things but if we're not going to be free then at

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least tell me the truth about it stop being such liars there's a there's something i've noticed

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even within my lifetime i'm only 54 but that kind of move towards more esoteric kind of control

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is a result of i think people would say this kind of intellectual class basically having to be a bit

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more sneaky um i think in the west we now have this way this kind of we we've trended towards

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this place where if you came out if trump got up on the stage and said right one person one child

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there'd be absolute uproar 100 um but but like you say he has to be a bit more esoteric you see

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it also i like the most fascinating places in advertising when i was a kid it'd be like

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you know eat your greens they make you stronger that's how you sell green things you know and now

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it's like i'm looking at a picture of god knows what i don't even know why it's selling me you

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know like tomatoes but because it's a car it's a pink car you know you have to be so esoteric

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because we've got this kind of um yeah it's a culture of um i forget it's very late in the day

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but there's a word that describes this exact thing which is um why we can't be told why it's

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why it's not cool to be told it directly it has to be esoteric for you to understand it therefore

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I'm, oh yeah, I get it. You know, and that's where we are. And, and, um, I, I agree with you. I'm,

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I'm, I would rather someone just said, look, this is what I'm going to do. Cause that gives me a way

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to choose how I'm going to respond to it. And in a way, and then I didn't, a lot of people would

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disagree with me here, but that's kind of what I liked about Trump. He, he lied like he lies like

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all politicians, but I can, I can kind of read his lies. I kind of expect it. You know, this was

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chatting to I think it was Yaron yesterday about this and when he was up against Hillary.

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I don't like the way Hillary lies but I kind of respect the way Trump lies because it's so stupid

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and I go yeah so that's a lie but so what? I can read that lie. Sure. You know so yeah I'm with you

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on the esoteric stuff but come on then so China like it's relatively unusual to hear

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someone speak about China in a positive way like that?

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What I'm talking about is perspective of a population towards their situation.

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That's what I'm talking about.

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I'm not talking about I praise the Chinese government or CPP or anything like that.

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I'll give you another example.

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I lived in the Middle East for almost a decade.

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And I lived at a time when it was very unpopular to be in the Middle East.

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And if you watch mainstream media, they'll tell you that all Muslims are going to kill the infidels and chop your hands off and all of these types of things.

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And that is not a reflection of the larger Muslim world or population on any stretch of the imagination.

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I've been to almost every Islamic country in the world, and I have found some of the most peaceful and beautiful people and generous people ever in the Islamic world.

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But mainstream media is telling you the opposite of that.

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I think the real culprit in a lot of this are the liars at the top.

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My invitation to you is to go out there and find out for yourself.

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That's what I'm asking you to do.

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And it's the same point with China.

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I have all these people who want to comment to me about what China is like.

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And he had never been there.

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So you've ended up in Panama.

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Talk to me about the process of that.

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Like what's going on in Panama?

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You sound like you would have thought it through deeply.

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and you've ended up in Panama.

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So there must be something going on there.

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So I've lived in nine different countries

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over the last 25 years of being an expat.

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Panama is one of those countries.

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I think Panama has an amazing amount of things going for it.

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They have a pro-business right-leaning government.

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It is what we call a territorial tax country.

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So if you earn your money outside of the country,

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there is no tax inside the country, okay?

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There's also no tax on capital gains.

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They've come outright and said there's no tax on Bitcoin or any other type of digital assets.

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They have a very small VAT.

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It's 7%.

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There's no corporate tax if done overseas.

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There's no wealth tax or inheritance tax, death tax.

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There's very little import duties or anything like that.

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So right off the bat, we're doing really well here, okay?

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When you add in that it is a safe and stable country, it's a US dollar country.

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You've got the U.S. dollar for more than 120 years has been U.S. dollar.

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Not that I'm a big proponent for the U.S. dollar, but I'm sure glad to have that in my wallet instead of the Bolivia or the peso or something like this and 100% inflation every year.

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And then you've got the Caribbean, the Atlantic.

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You've got the Pacific.

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You've got mountains.

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You've got beaches.

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You've got organic food, fantastic medical facilities.

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You've got Cayo San Quinto, the banking district.

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You've got Casco Viejo, a 500-year-old colonial town.

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Right in the heart of Panama City, you've got man-made islands,

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just like they did in Dubai.

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But instead of being done by a sovereign state,

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it's done by a private corporation.

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I mean, it's pretty amazing.

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Why is this then?

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Why is the government not taxing you much, number one?

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Because that's bucking a trend in the world, let's say.

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So what they're able to do in Panama is that they've diversified the income into the country

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to be able to pay for the services.

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And they're doing it in non-tax dollars.

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The main one is actually the company registration.

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So I would put company registration and banking as some of the biggest ones.

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So if you take Hong Kong out of the mix, Panama is the largest jurisdiction in the world for

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corporations.

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Now, I say take Hong Kong out of the mix.

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Not that I want to discount that, but because Hong Kong is going down and Panama is going

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up.

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So it won't be long until this crosses.

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Okay.

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So this is why we say that Panama is the center of the offshore world.

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And then I mentioned Cayo Cinquenta.

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We've got more than 50, 55 international banks on one strip, one major road running through

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the center of the country.

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This is huge amount of money that comes in.

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Now, when you add in other things like the Panama Canal, which brings in over $5 billion

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worth of revenue every single year into the country, when you add in Tucumán Airport,

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which is a huge, huge international airport and a hub. Copa Airlines is the oldest running

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commercial airline on planet Earth. It's not American Airlines or Delta or something like that,

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or even Lufthansa. It's Copa. It's a Panamanian airline, and it services the entire region,

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South America, the Caribbean, Central America, and North America. So, I mean, there is a lot of

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other things that are going in to driving the economy where they don't have to tax people.

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Now, if you look at the Middle East, the GCC countries, they also have huge economic drivers

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without having to go into taxation, except that's oil and oil is running out and they

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know that it's running out and they need to diversify.

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The Panama Canal is still going to be relevant in 10 years and 20 years and 50 years.

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It's still going to be relevant.

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Banking and all of these other types of things that exist in Panama will still be relevant

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where the GCC is going in the opposite direction.

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And that's why we see this huge change there.

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Does it have a history of socialism at all?

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I know nothing about Panama Does it have any bad points Like is this a conscious kind of long strategy that someone or some party has decided to implement So Noriega was out 40 years ago Since that moment it has been a very good open and free society

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And things like the Panama Canal have meant that it made sense to keep it as freer places possible economically, let's say.

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Well, I made this point at the Free Cities Conference, which was absolutely fantastic this year, that Panama is not just the plan B destination for Canadian expats or Australians or Brits or Americans.

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It's also the plan B destination for all of the countries in South America as they went socialist.

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So when Venezuela went socialist, people either went to Miami if they could get in, and if they couldn't, it was Panama.

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Bolivia, Peru, all these countries, when they went socialist, all the money came to Panama, okay?

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They put it into real estate.

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They put it into the banks.

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It's a very stable environment.

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So they might allow their country to go to hell in a handbasket and down into socialism.

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But they're not going to let their bank account, you know, go down the toilet.

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and what about the fact that i mean does is there any any chance that the democratic system might

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screw this up so we had the main elections may of last year and um there was five five parties

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running and i think we would have been okay with any of the five we ended up getting raul molino

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and um it was very interesting i was actually doing a jobs fair i was hiring staff for my family

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office there. I interviewed 30 some odd people that day. And one of the questions I asked them,

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all Panamanians, all Panamanians, I asked them, you know, we just had the election this week.

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What did you think? It was either, yes, I love Raul Molino. He's going to do an excellent job. Or,

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hey, he's not the guy that I voted for, but I'm still super bullish about it. And I'm really

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excited to see what he's going to do. Another point is none of them were socialists. Okay.

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None of the five candidates were commies. These were all right-leaning. They were not arguing

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on these big philosophical things or, you know, personal freedoms versus economic freedoms or

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any of these types of things. It was more like, hey, should we put a little bit more money into

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tourism or should we put a little bit more money into infrastructure? You know, it's like

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all right-leaning type of economic activities, just small variations in that.

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And you're saying that possibly that's because it was always a destination for people fleeing

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socialism so it's just in the blood hence my point on probably the most libertarian country in the

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world that sounds pretty good i mean i've never been there and there's a character the name even

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carries a certain kind of mystique to it the man panama hats and people getting tailor-made suits

348
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and you know i take it the standard of living is pretty good there it's extremely good i mean panama

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City specifically is as first world as you're going to get. I mean, it is gorgeous there.

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People seem to think that we live in, you know, thatched roof grass huts and stuff like that.

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And they get there and it's like skyscrapers and manmade islands and all these things. But I'll

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make an invitation to you, Tim. Why don't you come to our conference, March 6th and 7th, Panama City,

353
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Panama, 2026. We're doing the Wealth, Freedom and Passports Conference. Love to welcome you and show

354
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you around i'd love to come i'm patrick always going on about it you know i was on his podcast

355
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the other day and it's always saying welcome to sunny panama you know it's like so you're

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00:28:32,894 --> 00:28:37,514
referring to pat patrick yes yes so patrick hebert is my very dear friend he's the godfather

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of my children i'm an investor in his company i introduced him to the free cities i helped make

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this happen i'm a massive fan of patrick and what he does and i'm so happy to be supporting

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his vision for Veritas and our projects in Panama are world class. And I don't know if he had a

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chance to tell you about the important work we're doing in Costa Rica, but we've got some really

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interesting projects happening in that region, really starting in 2026. But he's awesome.

362
00:29:02,634 --> 00:29:10,514
Yeah, he is. And I think he's the perfect fit. I think what I love about what they're doing is that

363
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it's a kind of market driven thing.

364
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There is, he was a developer, let's say.

365
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He was creating something.

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He realized that he wanted something more

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and then he realized so did the market

368
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and then he created it.

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And it's all good.

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It's all good.

371
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It's a brilliant idea.

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And I don't know that many,

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like I don't know actually anyone else

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pitching sort of like communities

375
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the same way that he's doing now.

376
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But almost certainly there will be more because this is the time we live in.

377
00:29:45,614 --> 00:30:00,974
And, you know, since 2020, Jesus, I mean, which is what spurred him on to sort of realize that actually, you know, I think, as I said to him today, I said, what, you know, he was him and Alex were here and they're talking about the Bitcoin strategy and all this kind of stuff.

378
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I'm thinking you're a Bitcoin Citadel company.

379
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That's what you are, not a Bitcoin treasury company.

380
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you know there's no one out there who's really

381
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adhering to the to the ideas of the bitcoin citadel they're fully bitcoin on board they're

382
00:30:15,134 --> 00:30:19,454
fully into the libertarian side of it into the non-aggression you know i think they're out of

383
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all the place all the people that talk about it they're the only ones that i know that are really

384
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really actually doing it you know i introduced them together they were at my birthday party

385
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several years ago and i sat them down in a room and i said you guys have to work together

386
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and what's your history with patrick then how do you i've known patrick for seven years he came

387
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over to the uae we met uh when i was living in abu dhabi and um and then i moved to panama and then i

388
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encouraged him to move to panama as well so we're next door neighbors and uh he's my best friend

389
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and what's your connection with free cities in the beginning then

390
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who um i don't even remember i mean i've been around this movement for quite a while and um i

391
00:30:59,254 --> 00:31:02,854
think we were talking about it on my podcast probably seven or eight years ago you know when

392
00:31:02,854 --> 00:31:09,514
it was a lot more, uh, less advanced, let's say, than it is right now. Was it just the ZAs or you

393
00:31:09,514 --> 00:31:13,994
were talking to me even prior to that? No, I think it was probably with the ZAs and stuff like that.

394
00:31:14,134 --> 00:31:18,694
I mean, I've been in the freedom movement for a very long time and, uh, you know, my path to

395
00:31:18,694 --> 00:31:23,854
libertarianism is probably pretty different than a lot of other people's. Um, I dropped out of

396
00:31:23,854 --> 00:31:29,934
school when I was 12 years old and, uh, yeah. So can you drop out of school at 12? How do you do

397
00:31:29,934 --> 00:31:36,394
that? Well, I did. I mean, what happened was I was dyslexic. I am dyslexic. I was diagnosed with

398
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a learning disability when I was a child. I went to a special school for three years. Problem though,

399
00:31:43,174 --> 00:31:48,854
Tim, was that it was actually a regular school with a special class. So I got into tons of fights

400
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and picked on and bullied and it was all around a horrible experience. And after three years,

401
00:31:53,694 --> 00:31:57,154
I got to go back to my neighborhood school and I thought, oh, my friends, they're going to be so

402
00:31:57,154 --> 00:32:01,734
excited to see me and they will have missed me and stuff. And everybody starts whispering and

403
00:32:01,734 --> 00:32:07,134
gossiping. And oh, I remember Mikkel, he went to some retard school. Thanks very much. Kids,

404
00:32:07,234 --> 00:32:13,934
kids very, you know, sensitive, sensitive. But it left a very bad taste in my mouth for public

405
00:32:13,934 --> 00:32:18,734
education, for state run education. So I stopped going. And when I stopped going, I started failing.

406
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And when I stopped, started failing, I just, I just decided to be done. So I stopped going to

407
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school at 12. I officially dropped out at 15. And I started traveling internationally a year or two

408
00:32:28,594 --> 00:32:34,674
after that. And I've dedicated my life to exploring the world and searching for freedom. So I came to

409
00:32:34,674 --> 00:32:41,494
libertarianism through public education. Now, did I know, you know, 30 years later, that, you know,

410
00:32:41,514 --> 00:32:47,274
I would be, you know, an outspoken proponent for freedom. And that, you know, I'd be running a

411
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multi million dollar business and investing around the world. No, I didn't. But I did know the

412
00:32:52,474 --> 00:32:56,194
situation was wrong and I knew that I had to peacefully remove myself from this

413
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situation and for me that was dropping out at a very young age.

414
00:32:59,974 --> 00:33:03,994
Tell me if I'm prying too deeply but what did your mother or mother and father

415
00:33:03,994 --> 00:33:05,554
think about you dropping out of school?

416
00:33:05,554 --> 00:33:09,334
So you know it wouldn't it wasn't like okay we're gonna sit down and have this

417
00:33:09,334 --> 00:33:14,794
family discussion about what we should do. This was more of a I would just stop

418
00:33:14,794 --> 00:33:19,954
going and I was a willful child. I mean I'm a willful adult okay

419
00:33:19,992 --> 00:33:26,472
but I was a willful child and I would do anything not to go. So I would pack my bags and I would get

420
00:33:26,472 --> 00:33:31,672
dressed and my parents would see me leave for the day to walk to school. And then I'd go hang out

421
00:33:31,672 --> 00:33:36,512
in the forest or I'd go and, you know, go for a walk somewhere or they would drive off for work.

422
00:33:36,512 --> 00:33:41,152
And then when the car was gone, then I'd go back home and I would hang out and relax. And then I

423
00:33:41,152 --> 00:33:45,232
would, I would time things. I just knew that I couldn't be in this situation. For me, it was

424
00:33:45,232 --> 00:33:52,112
completely abusive. I think that public education is a prison sentence and it's a complete waste of

425
00:33:52,112 --> 00:33:57,712
a child's life. And as far as anyone can convince me, Tim, we have a certain amount of time on

426
00:33:57,712 --> 00:34:03,312
planet Earth. And I have, I do not believe in wasting the first 10 or 15 years of a child's

427
00:34:03,312 --> 00:34:09,272
life and putting them in a system which is just meant to brainwash them. You know, to circle back

428
00:34:09,272 --> 00:34:13,032
to what we were saying before about mainstream media and the powers that be and how they try

429
00:34:13,032 --> 00:34:16,612
to control things. For me, that's what public education is. They're just trying to get you

430
00:34:16,612 --> 00:34:22,092
earlier and earlier and earlier. This is why we have inflation. This is why it used to be that,

431
00:34:22,192 --> 00:34:25,572
you know, you could have the breadwinner in the family. They could go out and earn money and

432
00:34:25,572 --> 00:34:30,112
support their family. Then you had to have the wife enter the workforce. Now we're at the point

433
00:34:30,112 --> 00:34:34,532
where both the husband and the wife have to have two jobs, which means that the child is going to

434
00:34:34,532 --> 00:34:38,712
the state earlier and earlier and earlier and earlier. It used to be, you know, a couple of

435
00:34:38,712 --> 00:34:43,172
years the mother could stay home with the child. Those days are gone, right? I'm in a very blessed

436
00:34:43,172 --> 00:34:48,992
situation. I work from home. I have four children who we homeschool. My wife is a stay-at-home

437
00:34:48,992 --> 00:34:55,752
mother. She hasn't worked in 10 years, and she probably will never have a traditional nine-to-five

438
00:34:55,752 --> 00:35:02,012
job ever again. I mean, her job is being a mother, which is the most rewarding and important job on

439
00:35:02,012 --> 00:35:06,552
planet Earth. But the state doesn't like things like this, right? They want to get your children

440
00:35:06,552 --> 00:35:13,712
as fast as possible. So you went, did you say that you first went traveling at 17? Yes. Was that

441
00:35:13,712 --> 00:35:18,892
backpacking by any chance? Yes, absolutely. And where did you go? So my first trip was- You grew

442
00:35:18,892 --> 00:35:23,572
up in Canada, sorry. Yes, southwestern Ontario. I went to Ireland, England and Wales when I was 17

443
00:35:23,572 --> 00:35:28,272
for about a month. I came back, I worked a little bit and then by probably about 18, I was out in

444
00:35:28,272 --> 00:35:37,152
Western Canada. No, sorry. I went again first at 18 or 19. I was through Europe and then I ran out

445
00:35:37,152 --> 00:35:43,072
of money and I went to North Africa. I spent two months in Morocco. I took a camel to try to enter

446
00:35:43,072 --> 00:35:48,892
into Algeria, three days on a camel. You know, it's quite amazing what you'll do when you have

447
00:35:48,892 --> 00:35:55,632
no fear of death and, you know, just enjoying yourself. And, you know, these are things that

448
00:35:55,632 --> 00:35:58,712
I probably wouldn't do now and I probably wouldn't encourage my kids to do, but I did

449
00:35:58,712 --> 00:36:03,752
at, you know, 18, 19 years old. Then I was 18 months in the ski resorts in Western Canada

450
00:36:03,752 --> 00:36:09,272
and then 18 months hitchhiking through Mexico and El Salvador and Honduras and, you know,

451
00:36:09,312 --> 00:36:14,512
all the way through Central America. I spent four years in the South Pacific between New

452
00:36:14,512 --> 00:36:21,432
Zealand and Australia, a year in Singapore. I lived 366 days in the Canadian High Arctic

453
00:36:21,432 --> 00:36:22,592
next to Greenland.

454
00:36:23,272 --> 00:36:24,312
That's pretty specific.

455
00:36:24,612 --> 00:36:24,792
Yeah.

456
00:36:25,012 --> 00:36:25,412
366.

457
00:36:25,632 --> 00:36:27,352
I had a one-year contract,

458
00:36:27,452 --> 00:36:29,192
and the day after my contract finished,

459
00:36:29,232 --> 00:36:31,072
I got on an airplane and I got out of there.

460
00:36:31,172 --> 00:36:31,572
Why?

461
00:36:31,912 --> 00:36:32,352
Why?

462
00:36:32,492 --> 00:36:33,892
Because it's just a horrible place.

463
00:36:34,052 --> 00:36:37,712
I mean, it was really natural beauty.

464
00:36:37,952 --> 00:36:39,912
Okay, to go back to one of your original questions,

465
00:36:40,712 --> 00:36:42,372
natural beauty, spectacular.

466
00:36:43,952 --> 00:36:45,192
Unbelievable natural beauty.

467
00:36:45,192 --> 00:36:47,932
You see the Aurora Borealis every single night

468
00:36:47,932 --> 00:36:49,392
for months on end, okay?

469
00:36:49,712 --> 00:36:50,972
Gorgeous, gorgeous place.

470
00:36:51,432 --> 00:37:16,812
But it's a broken society. They're basically native reserves there with the Inuit, the Inuktitut. And it was very depressing. I worked at the crisis line. I would be getting phone calls from people. And I remember I got one call from a young lady. And she's like, I have to take care of my two younger siblings because my mother just killed herself.

471
00:37:16,812 --> 00:37:23,932
and she killed herself because my brother killed himself and she couldn't handle it like what do i

472
00:37:23,932 --> 00:37:30,532
do and i'm like jesus like i i don't even know what to say in a situation like this it was just

473
00:37:30,532 --> 00:37:36,492
a completely destroyed culture and society and people and i my heart breaks for them still um

474
00:37:36,492 --> 00:37:41,412
i've spent a fair bit of time up in those northerly places and i i know what you mean

475
00:37:41,412 --> 00:37:48,892
alcoholism rife meaninglessness but there's also i mean they are brutal places anyway

476
00:37:48,892 --> 00:37:55,312
but i think when you actually my my conclusion after probably spending about six months around

477
00:37:55,312 --> 00:38:02,812
there is that the traditional way of life that they had which had which was full of meaning does

478
00:38:02,812 --> 00:38:10,052
not um work with the modern the modern world doesn't work in that environment it has to be

479
00:38:10,052 --> 00:38:22,392
And no, I'm not saying they would even want to go back to living, you know, an authentic traditional life, but the traditional life did work in the sense that the meaning was there.

480
00:38:22,392 --> 00:38:32,392
But now, when you just plant a box in a place like Northern Canada or Greenland and live in it, there's not much to do.

481
00:38:32,592 --> 00:38:40,952
If you're not out there struggling to live, it just ends up being something you just sit down and you end up getting drunk.

482
00:38:41,072 --> 00:38:42,612
And they're not very good at getting drunk either.

483
00:38:42,772 --> 00:38:44,012
And then it turns into a nightmare.

484
00:38:44,272 --> 00:38:47,012
And I found some very depressing places up there.

485
00:38:47,332 --> 00:38:49,832
It was the most depressing place I've ever been in my life.

486
00:38:49,832 --> 00:38:54,992
And once again, natural beauty, one of the most stunning, beautiful places in the world.

487
00:38:55,272 --> 00:39:08,792
But I think that this is a expression of what is going to happen for UBI, universal basic income, because without purpose, without meaning, without struggle, I think this is what's going to happen.

488
00:39:09,112 --> 00:39:11,032
And really, that is what it is.

489
00:39:11,192 --> 00:39:12,752
They have UBI up there.

490
00:39:12,752 --> 00:39:17,812
Okay. And, you know, we're, we're, you know, as a Caucasian, I have to get down on my knee and I

491
00:39:17,812 --> 00:39:21,992
have to apologize for, you know, something that had nothing to do with me that I was not involved

492
00:39:21,992 --> 00:39:27,272
in that even my ancestors didn't have anything involved in, but to make amends for that, we need

493
00:39:27,272 --> 00:39:32,272
to give money on a, on a regular basis to it. And really what it does is it keeps people down.

494
00:39:32,392 --> 00:39:37,172
You're not helping them. You're not, you're not empowering them. You're destroying them and you're,

495
00:39:37,172 --> 00:39:43,612
you're perpetuating that destruction. It's a really, um, disgusting thing. And, um, and I

496
00:39:43,612 --> 00:39:54,352
believe it's coming to a city near you. So do I, but like, be honest, if you could change that,

497
00:39:54,492 --> 00:40:02,212
how, how would you, and I'm being in a realistic sense, like how, how could you, we, it's like,

498
00:40:02,212 --> 00:40:06,812
we're beyond the point of no return as far as I'm concerned, you know, I would agree with you.

499
00:40:06,812 --> 00:40:08,132
I mean, I think the damage is done.

500
00:40:08,272 --> 00:40:10,092
I don't think, I do not have a solution

501
00:40:10,092 --> 00:40:11,952
to fix any of these types of communities.

502
00:40:12,272 --> 00:40:14,132
It's not my type of work.

503
00:40:14,212 --> 00:40:15,552
It's not what I focus on.

504
00:40:15,752 --> 00:40:18,412
You know, I think that, you know,

505
00:40:18,432 --> 00:40:20,272
my focus is on helping families

506
00:40:20,272 --> 00:40:22,472
to get out of the abusive relationship

507
00:40:22,472 --> 00:40:23,772
they have with their government.

508
00:40:24,272 --> 00:40:25,812
You know, sever this Stockholm syndrome,

509
00:40:26,392 --> 00:40:27,432
you know, and get out.

510
00:40:27,712 --> 00:40:31,212
Now, what's happening in places like the Arctic?

511
00:40:31,872 --> 00:40:33,372
I don't know the solution for that.

512
00:40:33,372 --> 00:40:35,692
But even the West,

513
00:40:35,692 --> 00:40:42,492
ubi is coming for us too for sure and it's amazing how many people think it's a good idea

514
00:40:42,492 --> 00:40:49,332
i mean it's free it it's free money inverted commas it looks great and obviously the theory

515
00:40:49,332 --> 00:40:57,812
is that with all this free money that you will pursue other things which doesn't appear to

516
00:40:57,812 --> 00:41:05,172
historically be true um but but it is coming and and when i asked how do we solve that problem

517
00:41:05,172 --> 00:41:08,692
I know the theory how we solve it because we are all doing it.

518
00:41:08,872 --> 00:41:10,692
But how do you solve it on mass?

519
00:41:11,532 --> 00:41:13,492
I think showing someone an alternative.

520
00:41:13,712 --> 00:41:17,032
I don't think that people even know that there are options out there.

521
00:41:17,132 --> 00:41:20,112
And I think that's why the free cities is so incredibly important.

522
00:41:20,192 --> 00:41:21,132
That's why I am a donor.

523
00:41:21,412 --> 00:41:22,652
That's why I am a sponsor.

524
00:41:22,992 --> 00:41:24,292
That's why I come and speak.

525
00:41:24,432 --> 00:41:27,272
You know, I fly to the other side of the world to come and speak at these conferences.

526
00:41:27,272 --> 00:41:32,592
That's why I give, you know, my own money to support these types of organizations because I believe in the movement.

527
00:41:32,592 --> 00:41:46,030
And I truly believe in my heart of hearts that this is a viable solution But also I mean just there a culture that would refuse to take UBI for example It a culture And it the culture that

528
00:41:46,030 --> 00:41:54,150
possibly at its heart understands how damaging UBI could be. But also many, I mean, many people,

529
00:41:55,210 --> 00:42:02,150
probably most people would probably take it even if they knew that, because I know a lot of people

530
00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:06,710
that would take it and just buy Bitcoin with it, for example. And now, is that right? Would you,

531
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:11,670
you know, like, is that right or wrong? I don't know. I mean, it's, everything in life is give

532
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:16,470
and take. So what are they going to take from you, for you accepting the Bitcoin, or sorry,

533
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:20,830
accepting the UBI, right? I mean, I think that the majority of the people, the idea is,

534
00:42:21,750 --> 00:42:26,290
you know, with AI and robotics and all of these types of things, well, people won't need to work

535
00:42:26,290 --> 00:42:30,070
anymore. And, you know, so it's going to be this just sustainable level, but you're never going to

536
00:42:30,070 --> 00:42:34,650
be able to move past that, right? Well, that doesn't interest me. You know, I run my wealth

537
00:42:34,650 --> 00:42:41,110
through a family office, you know, we're considered an ultra high net worth family. You know, we are

538
00:42:41,110 --> 00:42:46,670
not looking just for, you know, scraping by or just having these creature comforts. This is also

539
00:42:46,670 --> 00:42:50,910
what we were talking about with China and the different types of freedoms and what you're giving

540
00:42:50,910 --> 00:42:55,810
up and what you're getting in return, right? So, you know, you make a decision in your life, like,

541
00:42:55,810 --> 00:43:02,610
what do you want out of life? For me, I want it all. I want the successful marriage. I want the

542
00:43:02,610 --> 00:43:07,130
beautiful, healthy, happy children. I want to travel and enjoy myself and have interesting

543
00:43:07,130 --> 00:43:12,630
conversations with people that I enjoy spending time with. I want it all. And I don't want to be

544
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:20,110
held down under someone's thumb and told me, just take what you've been given and that's enough for

545
00:43:20,110 --> 00:43:25,930
you. Do you think there'll always be an arbitrage opportunity? Yes. Because you could, you could

546
00:43:25,930 --> 00:43:32,370
predict that there won't, you could predict that everything trends. I'm not blackpilled on these

547
00:43:32,370 --> 00:43:40,530
things though. I am completely not blackpilled. I am an optimist. I am out here fighting for freedom

548
00:43:40,530 --> 00:43:45,850
every day on the front lines, by the way. I'm the practical side of these things. Everything that I

549
00:43:45,850 --> 00:43:51,050
do as a consultant. We're dealing with the real life things. It's not pie in the sky, dreams or

550
00:43:51,050 --> 00:43:56,270
something like that. It's like, how do you pay less taxes today? Not in 10 years from now, not 50 years

551
00:43:56,270 --> 00:44:00,130
from now. Today, how do you get out of this? How do you separate yourself from your government today?

552
00:44:00,650 --> 00:44:06,050
How do you protect your wealth and your ability to provide for your family today? These are the

553
00:44:06,050 --> 00:44:11,670
types of things. And I refuse to be blackpilled over it. I suppose what I mean then is that

554
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:18,590
going back to earlier on in this conversation where we kind of well i don't know whether you

555
00:44:18,590 --> 00:44:24,710
agree with me actually but i see a minority of people that really truly believe in freedom

556
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:32,350
um you could argue then that if that scaled up to the size of the world means unless all those

557
00:44:32,350 --> 00:44:37,330
people are in roughly the same place we're quite diluted around the world okay but define

558
00:44:37,330 --> 00:44:44,730
believing in freedom. Define that for me. I mean, people that are conscious of the notion that

559
00:44:44,730 --> 00:44:52,090
freedom is a, is a thing worth having. Right. So, or, I mean, even it could even be something,

560
00:44:52,090 --> 00:44:59,410
I mean, what you see generally around the world is that people have this base level understanding

561
00:44:59,410 --> 00:45:04,670
that society involves the state telling you what to do and they, and they don't even kind of really

562
00:45:04,670 --> 00:45:10,130
know it's there. I didn't for many years. I just, that was just something I assumed. It was like a

563
00:45:10,130 --> 00:45:16,890
subconscious belief. And when I, when I, when I was, and it took a lot to challenge it. It took a

564
00:45:16,890 --> 00:45:22,310
lot of conversations and a lot of people that had already challenged it to actually show me that,

565
00:45:22,310 --> 00:45:27,830
that that was something that is just some made up thing. It's literally just, it's two mafia

566
00:45:27,830 --> 00:45:33,550
organizations fighting for you. It's like, you know, it's as simple as that. But that takes a lot.

567
00:45:33,550 --> 00:45:39,750
and I think it takes a lot and I wasn't even trying to understand that I was I was trying

568
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:45,150
but it started with the with freedom it started with someone telling me I couldn't go out of my

569
00:45:45,150 --> 00:45:52,190
house really that's when it really started kicking in do you know what I mean sure so so those those

570
00:45:52,190 --> 00:45:57,510
people like because a lot of people when around where I live when they were told you can't leave

571
00:45:57,510 --> 00:46:02,130
the house they just stayed in the house I didn't I went out and deliberately wasn't in my house

572
00:46:02,130 --> 00:46:09,070
yeah and and and you know it was painful it was painful being around people have in why aren't you

573
00:46:09,070 --> 00:46:14,550
why aren't you following you know so i i don't know whether we're we're a minority and if we're

574
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:20,170
like i say and if we're not all in the same place at the same time or at least kind of i think we get

575
00:46:20,170 --> 00:46:27,750
a bit too diluted don't we i mean i would love to see a area where people can spend more time

576
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:31,770
together and talk about these ideas and build things we have it for entrepreneurship we have

577
00:46:31,770 --> 00:46:36,410
it for startup cities and things like that. I think a physical space is extremely important

578
00:46:36,410 --> 00:46:44,310
for freedom minded people. Now, I do trap I do trips with my clients and I bring them to places

579
00:46:44,310 --> 00:46:49,050
and I show them alternatives that are out there. You know, we just did a trip to Paraguay a few

580
00:46:49,050 --> 00:46:53,890
weeks ago. I had 50 clients who are paying to come on this trip and we're showing them around

581
00:46:53,890 --> 00:46:59,290
Paraguay and what's going on and show them the large economic drivers and stuff. But the number

582
00:46:59,290 --> 00:47:04,350
one comment that I get from people, and I get it every single time I've hosted dozens upon dozens

583
00:47:04,350 --> 00:47:09,130
upon dozens of tours, is how amazing it is to spend time with other like-minded people. How

584
00:47:09,130 --> 00:47:14,690
freeing that is to be able to speak your mind and not worried about being judged. You know, it's like

585
00:47:14,690 --> 00:47:19,490
they've been carrying around a backpack filled with bricks, and finally they get to put it down.

586
00:47:20,110 --> 00:47:26,610
You know, I think it's really a beautiful thing. And this is why I do believe in physical spaces,

587
00:47:26,610 --> 00:47:32,890
physical events, tours, trips, communities, what we're doing with Veritas, which I helped develop.

588
00:47:33,450 --> 00:47:37,170
I think that we do need things in the physical. You see a lot in the freedom movement,

589
00:47:37,310 --> 00:47:41,070
countries on the internet and stuff like that. I'm like, this is not going to do anything.

590
00:47:41,870 --> 00:47:47,170
We need to have it in person. I'm not a massive proponent. I think the countries on the internet

591
00:47:47,170 --> 00:47:55,270
thing is part of a strategy. And I'll tell you why. This one, I've come to understand recently.

592
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:56,610
I was in Liberland recently.

593
00:47:57,670 --> 00:48:03,810
And Liberland, you know, like it or hate it, it's there and it's an interesting thing.

594
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:09,630
But what Liberland are realizing is that Liberland is this specific place, Kornosuga,

595
00:48:10,210 --> 00:48:14,090
but it's also Ark, which is in Serbia.

596
00:48:14,570 --> 00:48:17,750
And now I think they've even got a community in Paraguay starting.

597
00:48:18,070 --> 00:48:22,150
And so what you realize is Liberland is also an idea.

598
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:29,070
it's the idea of having a self-sovereign place so it's it started as a we want this bit of land

599
00:48:29,070 --> 00:48:36,070
but the that side of it the kind of internet the people on the internet side of it is is also part

600
00:48:36,070 --> 00:48:41,370
of the movement and in fact the more people that i mean you reach a bigger audience on the internet

601
00:48:41,370 --> 00:48:46,430
anyway so but and the more people that get on board on the internet the more power you do actually

602
00:48:46,430 --> 00:48:51,210
have in the real world and i think that's where the the network state people do have a point

603
00:48:51,210 --> 00:48:57,250
you know like you can do it with digital nomads if you if you are a digitally nomad influencer and

604
00:48:57,250 --> 00:49:03,050
you have enough people who follow you you can say right guys like why don't we all move to

605
00:49:03,050 --> 00:49:08,990
georgia sign here your intent is to move to georgia i'll take it to the government i'll say

606
00:49:08,990 --> 00:49:13,770
look i can bring 5 000 people here you know it does work it's just i think that when it starts

607
00:49:13,770 --> 00:49:19,030
on the internet it's too easy to the barrier to entry about creating an internet company

608
00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:24,990
an internet country is very low as opposed to what you know here's my point i have a large

609
00:49:24,990 --> 00:49:29,670
internet community of people who listen to my show the expat money show who visit our website

610
00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:34,730
who are on our newsletter at expatmoney.com it's amazing i love you guys you're fantastic

611
00:49:34,730 --> 00:49:42,170
but that's not enough right that's not enough we need to spend time in person okay digital is

612
00:49:42,170 --> 00:49:47,770
i like technology but it's just it's not a substitute to sitting here in person with you

613
00:49:47,770 --> 00:49:51,730
Tim and having a conversation. It's a different feel. It has a different vibration. Everything

614
00:49:51,730 --> 00:50:06,868
is different about it I spent the last couple of days with 400 people in a room watching presentations It not the same Like if I was watching it on YouTube it a pale comparison of real life My point is that we need to be physically out there in the

615
00:50:06,868 --> 00:50:11,668
world, not just online. It might be a good starting point, but it's not enough.

616
00:50:12,008 --> 00:50:17,488
You mentioned earlier that a core part of what you do revolves around freedom of movement.

617
00:50:17,488 --> 00:50:24,868
that's quite a contentious issue i mean um we've just lived through the biggest

618
00:50:24,868 --> 00:50:30,828
movement against freedom of movement in the history of the world i would imagine i don't

619
00:50:30,828 --> 00:50:37,688
think we've ever seen a global move to stop people moving and you're not black-pilled

620
00:50:37,688 --> 00:50:45,628
still i'm not black-pilled because i watch my children and i watch them play and i see

621
00:50:45,628 --> 00:50:52,048
human flourishing around me. And I think there's so many exciting things to be happen. And if I

622
00:50:52,048 --> 00:50:57,648
become completely blackpilled, they've won and I won't let them win. I will go to my grave

623
00:50:57,648 --> 00:51:04,328
fighting these bastards and fuck them. You know, like this is my life and I'm going to do what I

624
00:51:04,328 --> 00:51:13,708
want with my life. And, um, and that's it. No, I agree. I agree. I think I, I do spend more time

625
00:51:13,708 --> 00:51:23,148
than many strategizing the future i must admit and i wouldn't say i'm black-pilled but i would

626
00:51:23,148 --> 00:51:31,148
say that for example what i'm not good at which you alluded to earlier is the fact that i for

627
00:51:31,148 --> 00:51:38,868
example i live in the uk i and i love where i live but i hate the circumstances of where i live

628
00:51:38,868 --> 00:51:46,288
okay so i'm making a trade-off my trade-off is i even own a house which i'm thinking is a liability

629
00:51:46,288 --> 00:51:51,068
now which is even worse now because there's something that we've plowed a lot of money

630
00:51:51,068 --> 00:51:56,988
into over 40 years which now i'm thinking jesus i don't even want that anymore so i'm paying

631
00:51:56,988 --> 00:52:03,768
my trade-offs are getting more and more and more but i have children embedded into a community

632
00:52:03,768 --> 00:52:09,168
there who love living there we're not about to move that's where the black pill comes for me

633
00:52:09,168 --> 00:52:14,088
because i struggle i know what opportunities are there i know what's out there i look i'm

634
00:52:14,088 --> 00:52:20,228
in this movement i see i've just been speaking to trey about trey goff about prosper and i'm like

635
00:52:20,228 --> 00:52:25,048
jesus there's so much going on there you know of course i'd be living there of course i'd be living

636
00:52:25,048 --> 00:52:30,928
there if i if i wasn't living where i'm living but i can't and that bugs me and what i struggle

637
00:52:30,928 --> 00:52:33,188
with is making peace with that, I think.

638
00:52:34,008 --> 00:52:37,068
Well, can't is kind of a difficult word, right?

639
00:52:37,128 --> 00:52:38,268
Because, I mean, you could.

640
00:52:38,508 --> 00:52:39,888
I could, you're absolutely right, yeah.

641
00:52:40,188 --> 00:52:41,268
I mean, you don't want to.

642
00:52:41,388 --> 00:52:42,548
It goes back to our conversation,

643
00:52:42,788 --> 00:52:43,468
you know, give and take,

644
00:52:43,708 --> 00:52:44,908
trades and things like that.

645
00:52:44,988 --> 00:52:46,388
It's going to cost you more

646
00:52:46,388 --> 00:52:47,468
than you're willing to spend,

647
00:52:47,728 --> 00:52:49,408
which is fine, you know.

648
00:52:49,728 --> 00:52:51,968
My point is not everybody needs

649
00:52:51,968 --> 00:52:53,648
to move offshore today.

650
00:52:53,968 --> 00:52:55,708
My point is you should probably

651
00:52:55,708 --> 00:52:56,588
take a look around,

652
00:52:57,048 --> 00:52:58,488
see what else is out there,

653
00:52:58,808 --> 00:52:59,788
just get educated,

654
00:52:59,788 --> 00:53:00,888
keep an open mind,

655
00:53:00,928 --> 00:53:03,588
and just, you know, keep your eyes open.

656
00:53:04,348 --> 00:53:06,868
So what do you see?

657
00:53:06,928 --> 00:53:08,908
What's the main strategy you see currently?

658
00:53:08,908 --> 00:53:13,608
And be country specific, you know, what's everyone doing?

659
00:53:13,708 --> 00:53:15,268
What are people generally doing?

660
00:53:15,468 --> 00:53:17,908
Where are the movements coming to and from, you know?

661
00:53:18,248 --> 00:53:20,368
I'll tell you what is popular, okay?

662
00:53:20,448 --> 00:53:23,508
My client base is wealthy Americans and Canadians.

663
00:53:23,848 --> 00:53:27,488
Call it 80, 90% are wealthy Americans and Canadians.

664
00:53:27,488 --> 00:53:33,928
little bit of Europeans, a little bit of Brits, a little bit of Aussies, but let's call it the

665
00:53:33,928 --> 00:53:38,628
bulk of the North Americans. The North Americans are moving to Latin America because in the past,

666
00:53:38,748 --> 00:53:43,988
Latin America was not a free place. But if you look at it right now, it is by far the freest

667
00:53:43,988 --> 00:53:50,148
area, geographical area in the world. It's not Europe or Asia or Africa or the Middle East or

668
00:53:50,148 --> 00:53:55,608
any of these other places. It's Latin America and the Caribbean. And the popular countries are

669
00:53:55,608 --> 00:53:58,568
are Costa Rica, Panama, Paraguay.

670
00:53:59,088 --> 00:54:01,428
You know, there's other countries in Latin America

671
00:54:01,428 --> 00:54:03,308
where you can pay zero taxes,

672
00:54:03,948 --> 00:54:07,848
completely territorial tax country that are safe,

673
00:54:08,008 --> 00:54:10,408
that have right-leaning pro-business governments.

674
00:54:10,848 --> 00:54:13,488
There are viable options out there.

675
00:54:14,388 --> 00:54:15,248
And what are the businesses?

676
00:54:15,908 --> 00:54:18,208
Are these people that are bringing business with them?

677
00:54:18,928 --> 00:54:21,708
Or are they, as in digital nomads,

678
00:54:21,808 --> 00:54:23,908
can they operate in any jurisdiction?

679
00:54:23,908 --> 00:54:32,608
Is there anyone moving to Panama, for example, to set up like a business, like something, build things, create things, you know?

680
00:54:32,868 --> 00:54:33,828
Some, some.

681
00:54:34,028 --> 00:54:43,708
I mean, once again, I can talk to you about like general things that I see or what I think is possible, or I can talk to you specifics on what I'm absolutely helping clients.

682
00:54:43,788 --> 00:54:47,328
You have to understand that the bulk of my clients either fit into one of two buckets.

683
00:54:47,528 --> 00:54:49,628
They're either highly paid professionals.

684
00:54:49,628 --> 00:55:11,328
We're talking, you know, I have a client, he's a spine surgeon, he makes somewhere around $800,000 a year as a spine surgeon, you know, lawyers, you know, the largest client base I have are lawyers, I have more lawyers than anything else, because they understand the value of extremely highly specialized information and knowledge.

685
00:55:11,828 --> 00:55:18,468
So it's kind of in this highly paid professional area or on the small business owner type of thing.

686
00:55:18,608 --> 00:55:21,768
And a lot of the small business owners, they're just getting rid of their business.

687
00:55:21,988 --> 00:55:22,388
They're done.

688
00:55:22,528 --> 00:55:24,088
Actually, same on the other side.

689
00:55:24,488 --> 00:55:26,108
They are early retirement.

690
00:55:26,248 --> 00:55:29,388
They don't like what's happening with Obamacare and the insurance in the U.S.

691
00:55:29,748 --> 00:55:32,088
They are feeling like they're under attack.

692
00:55:32,088 --> 00:55:36,648
If you get sued in the U.S., it's not going to just be a small thing.

693
00:55:36,728 --> 00:55:37,608
They're going to wipe you out.

694
00:55:37,608 --> 00:55:43,168
you know, insurance for doctors in the United States, it doesn't cover what you're being sued

695
00:55:43,168 --> 00:55:46,988
for. Your insurance might cover you up to $2 million, but you're being sued for $10 million.

696
00:55:47,668 --> 00:55:51,988
So, and it's not a question of, you know, if you are going to get sued. Accountants, nurses,

697
00:55:52,208 --> 00:55:56,808
doctors, lawyers, these are the four professions that get sued more than anybody else. And the

698
00:55:56,808 --> 00:56:01,708
insurance doesn't cover it. So why are you going to continue to play when at any day you can be

699
00:56:01,708 --> 00:56:07,128
wiped out? So they're retiring now at 50, 55, you know, and they're done and they're coming down to

700
00:56:07,128 --> 00:56:11,628
Latin America and they're doing philanthropic work. They're doing charity. They're taking up

701
00:56:11,628 --> 00:56:15,808
paddle or surfing or tennis or something like this. And then they're enjoying their life.

702
00:56:16,128 --> 00:56:21,748
That's what I was going to say, actually, because we went to, amongst other places,

703
00:56:21,888 --> 00:56:25,608
Mexico during the pandemic to sort of get away from the restrictions, my whole family.

704
00:56:26,368 --> 00:56:33,388
And I met a lot of people. We went to Oaxaca, which was, and at the time we went to a very

705
00:56:33,388 --> 00:56:39,008
Spanish place a very Mexican place and it was great spent months there it was beautiful and

706
00:56:39,008 --> 00:56:45,688
not we didn't see a lot of foreigners but we did see a number of Canadians who had retired there

707
00:56:45,688 --> 00:56:52,588
and um that I did hear the story quite a few times of people saying you know well we just

708
00:56:52,588 --> 00:56:59,148
sold up back home because life is so much better here um but then I did I noticed there were two

709
00:56:59,148 --> 00:57:03,908
types of people there were the people that basically turned into alcoholics pretty much

710
00:57:03,908 --> 00:57:08,128
they were they got up and they started drinking at sort of like nine o'clock in the morning in a

711
00:57:08,128 --> 00:57:13,948
in a not in a kind of completely debauched way but they were just or there were people that

712
00:57:13,948 --> 00:57:20,648
realized shit after a couple of months of just living my dream life i didn't like it i needed

713
00:57:20,648 --> 00:57:25,788
to be doing something i met someone who got quite religious i mean you know so what what did people

714
00:57:25,788 --> 00:57:32,168
do when they do this? Humans need to be productive. We need to put our hearts and soul into something.

715
00:57:32,508 --> 00:57:37,708
I don't have to work anymore, Tim. I could retire tomorrow at 42 years old. I was a multimillionaire

716
00:57:37,708 --> 00:57:44,748
in my 30s. I do not need to work anymore. But I'm on a mission. I am out here trying to help people

717
00:57:44,748 --> 00:57:54,908
and I feel like I was put on earth to do two things. One is to be a father. You're a father,

718
00:57:54,908 --> 00:57:56,528
I'm sure you can resonate with this.

719
00:57:57,188 --> 00:57:58,708
I've only got one thing, really.

720
00:57:59,348 --> 00:57:59,588
Yeah.

721
00:58:00,008 --> 00:58:02,288
To be honest, if I'm really honest, it's that.

722
00:58:02,508 --> 00:58:05,128
I have a family goal and mission in life.

723
00:58:05,428 --> 00:58:07,468
This is to be a father and a present husband.

724
00:58:07,828 --> 00:58:11,448
And I have a professional goal, which is help families through a difficult transition.

725
00:58:12,048 --> 00:58:13,808
And this is the purpose of my life.

726
00:58:13,848 --> 00:58:26,106
And I feel so blessed to know what my purpose is in life and then just to run towards it at full steam because I know that is what I am here to do And is that because you feel like you found you worked out

727
00:58:26,106 --> 00:58:32,046
the special sauce and now you just want to share it? I mean, yes, but I think that it is this type

728
00:58:32,046 --> 00:58:36,546
of flow state. You know, when I work, when I get on the computer and I'm starting going through

729
00:58:36,546 --> 00:58:41,006
these things or I'm hosting a tour or attending these conferences, having a conversations,

730
00:58:41,006 --> 00:58:45,826
everything else disappears. And I know I am doing the right thing because it feels right.

731
00:58:46,186 --> 00:58:52,386
You know, I can feel it in my soul. And yes, it's tiring. And yes, it's hard. But it's also

732
00:58:52,386 --> 00:58:57,826
scratches a certain itch that I have in my brain. It's extremely complex puzzles that I need to

733
00:58:57,826 --> 00:59:05,286
solve. And, and I just love being there at this transition moment of a client's life when they

734
00:59:05,286 --> 00:59:09,406
they've come to me with, you know, all this stress and anxiety, and their shoulders are so raised,

735
00:59:09,406 --> 00:59:10,986
and they're so stressed out.

736
00:59:11,486 --> 00:59:13,106
And week after week, month after month

737
00:59:13,106 --> 00:59:14,686
of working with them, their shoulders dropped,

738
00:59:15,226 --> 00:59:16,926
their pitch and their cadence slow down.

739
00:59:17,426 --> 00:59:18,106
And it's just like,

740
00:59:18,406 --> 00:59:21,286
they are in a way more relaxed state.

741
00:59:21,486 --> 00:59:23,526
And I just, I am absolutely addicted

742
00:59:23,526 --> 00:59:25,626
to helping these people.

743
00:59:26,266 --> 00:59:28,986
I think in my case, that's, I call it enthusiasm.

744
00:59:29,386 --> 00:59:32,266
And I've always thought enthusiasm,

745
00:59:33,586 --> 00:59:36,206
it's very simple to live your life, basically.

746
00:59:36,626 --> 00:59:38,526
You do whatever you're enthusiastic about.

747
00:59:38,526 --> 00:59:42,126
and there's probably some spiritual significance there

748
00:59:42,126 --> 00:59:44,426
because enthusiasm, it's entheos, isn't it?

749
00:59:44,446 --> 00:59:47,946
It's like God entering you or whatever, I don't know.

750
00:59:48,706 --> 00:59:51,166
But it's very simple because if you do that,

751
00:59:51,746 --> 00:59:54,586
you know, like I love doing podcasts.

752
00:59:55,006 --> 00:59:58,986
Like literally yesterday at 7.30 in the evening,

753
00:59:58,986 --> 01:00:00,606
I was sat here a bit like we are now

754
01:00:00,606 --> 01:00:02,146
and I was almost hallucinating

755
01:00:02,146 --> 01:00:05,246
talking to a very intellectual person

756
01:00:05,246 --> 01:00:06,966
who was kind of outgunning me.

757
01:00:06,966 --> 01:00:11,806
and I was like what am I saying I don't even know what I'm saying anymore like why am I here who am

758
01:00:11,806 --> 01:00:18,046
I you know like thinking to myself but but I was excited as I am now I have a I have an excited

759
01:00:18,046 --> 01:00:25,066
feeling inside me and I don't I don't know why but all I know is it's there and when I do that thing

760
01:00:25,066 --> 01:00:31,686
that that that's what life is I get it with my kids as well showing my kids how to do all these

761
01:00:31,686 --> 01:00:38,606
kind of things but i think it's one of the cheat codes in life because um if you find it you should

762
01:00:38,606 --> 01:00:43,106
just do that thing you shouldn't worry about anything else if you're fortunate enough to have

763
01:00:43,106 --> 01:00:48,086
that kind of leeway because it's often people choose to do non things they're not enthusiastic

764
01:00:48,086 --> 01:00:54,466
about because of money and um it's very easy to but this is how they're going to sell the dream

765
01:00:54,466 --> 01:00:58,806
of ubi and i don't think it's going to work out like that i don't think it's going to work no but

766
01:00:58,806 --> 01:01:06,806
that. But the thing about UBI as well is UBI is a function of the central bank digital currency

767
01:01:06,806 --> 01:01:15,226
system. It's a requirement of it really, because it's going to be used to get people on board with

768
01:01:15,226 --> 01:01:19,486
that. I reckon it would be the perfect way. Except your Fed coin or whatever it's called.

769
01:01:19,486 --> 01:01:24,266
Whatever it's called. Yeah. It's going to be like, here's some free money. Of course,

770
01:01:24,266 --> 01:01:29,466
everyone's going to take it and that is you're onboarding a lot of people then to a wallet that's

771
01:01:29,466 --> 01:01:35,086
on their phone then government services only get collected in it then this that that it's true by

772
01:01:35,086 --> 01:01:39,586
the way is it great you can pay you can pay in panama you can pay the government in bitcoin right

773
01:01:39,586 --> 01:01:45,286
it's correct exactly patrick told me that today i can't believe that yeah so our mayor of panama he

774
01:01:45,286 --> 01:01:51,006
lives 10 seconds from my house we're next door neighbors mayor is mizraki he's a bitcoin maxi

775
01:01:51,006 --> 01:01:52,766
He's like 37, 38 years old.

776
01:01:53,046 --> 01:01:55,026
And he's doing some really incredible things

777
01:01:55,026 --> 01:01:56,226
with Bitcoin in the country of Panama.

778
01:01:56,226 --> 01:01:57,466
I've never heard, in the Bitcoin community,

779
01:01:57,566 --> 01:01:58,386
that's not talked about.

780
01:01:58,746 --> 01:01:59,486
People don't know.

781
01:01:59,826 --> 01:02:01,226
I mean, everybody talks about El Salvador.

782
01:02:01,586 --> 01:02:03,646
In reality, I'd say Panama is more friendly

783
01:02:03,646 --> 01:02:05,626
towards Bitcoin than it is El Salvador.

784
01:02:05,886 --> 01:02:08,366
Because El Salvador is not even a tax-free country.

785
01:02:09,226 --> 01:02:10,886
It's not a territorial tax country.

786
01:02:12,446 --> 01:02:14,566
But you do go to El Salvador, right?

787
01:02:14,746 --> 01:02:15,806
Yeah, I do.

788
01:02:15,806 --> 01:02:18,346
What do you think about the whole Bitcoin thing there then?

789
01:02:18,346 --> 01:02:22,026
I think that they are doing excellent things,

790
01:02:22,126 --> 01:02:23,826
but they got a lot of work to do.

791
01:02:24,046 --> 01:02:26,286
And I want to help them and I want to support them.

792
01:02:26,386 --> 01:02:28,866
And I've been down there and meeting with government officials

793
01:02:28,866 --> 01:02:31,946
and all the big law firms there.

794
01:02:31,966 --> 01:02:33,346
And I've been sat in all the rooms

795
01:02:33,346 --> 01:02:36,646
and they got a lot of work to do.

796
01:02:37,206 --> 01:02:39,186
But compare that and contrast with Panama then.

797
01:02:39,486 --> 01:02:41,086
Why is Panama more Bitcoin friendly?

798
01:02:41,086 --> 01:02:42,126
Because we have better laws.

799
01:02:42,686 --> 01:02:43,806
To do with Bitcoin?

800
01:02:44,106 --> 01:02:45,626
To do with everything.

801
01:02:46,626 --> 01:02:48,846
The laws in El Salvador are horrible.

802
01:02:49,246 --> 01:02:50,926
They have a horrible legal system.

803
01:02:51,046 --> 01:02:57,286
I went through it and the disclosure of information about the company formations, about taxation.

804
01:02:57,826 --> 01:02:59,106
Nobody actually looks at the laws.

805
01:02:59,186 --> 01:03:00,066
They don't read the law.

806
01:03:00,926 --> 01:03:03,066
But if you look at Panama, you contrast it.

807
01:03:03,406 --> 01:03:04,466
I mean, the laws are all there.

808
01:03:04,466 --> 01:03:06,126
Anybody can go and look them up.

809
01:03:06,666 --> 01:03:11,566
What's the national government in Panama like then with regard to Bitcoin, for example?

810
01:03:11,566 --> 01:03:18,646
I mean, I'm not sure that the current administration has large thoughts about it one way or another.

811
01:03:19,146 --> 01:03:23,186
I think that a lot of it is being driven by the younger generation.

812
01:03:24,146 --> 01:03:29,306
But I will absolutely make a prediction right here, right now.

813
01:03:29,446 --> 01:03:31,846
Mayor Mizrahi will be the president of Panama.

814
01:03:32,386 --> 01:03:37,126
It's not going to happen tomorrow, but give it 10 years, give it 20 years, he will be the president of Panama.

815
01:03:37,226 --> 01:03:38,466
There's no question about it.

816
01:03:38,466 --> 01:03:40,166
How can you say that so you're authoritatively?

817
01:03:40,166 --> 01:03:44,266
Because I've watched, because I have eyes, because I can see what's going on.

818
01:03:44,546 --> 01:03:46,026
I can see the enthusiasm.

819
01:03:47,846 --> 01:03:48,706
People love him.

820
01:03:48,986 --> 01:03:49,566
People love him.

821
01:03:50,206 --> 01:03:50,966
That's interesting.

822
01:03:51,446 --> 01:03:53,566
So, like, tell me some more about Panama then.

823
01:03:53,666 --> 01:03:55,846
Like, for example, how many districts are there?

824
01:03:55,846 --> 01:03:59,066
When you say he's the mayor of this, like, what does that mean on a scale of?

825
01:03:59,326 --> 01:04:01,766
So you have to understand, Panama is a very small country.

826
01:04:01,906 --> 01:04:07,946
We're around 4 million people with just under half of them being in Panama City or the surrounding areas.

827
01:04:08,686 --> 01:04:10,066
Panama is Panama City.

828
01:04:10,166 --> 01:04:15,706
By and large, we have David, we have Bukete, which is a small town, we have Coronado, we have some stuff on the Caribbean.

829
01:04:15,706 --> 01:04:18,826
But the bulk of Panama is Panama City.

830
01:04:19,186 --> 01:04:27,166
OK, now the mayor of Panama has an amazing amount of power compared to mayors in other countries because it's not really a city state.

831
01:04:27,326 --> 01:04:31,606
Right. If we look at other types of city states, you know, look at Singapore and things like this.

832
01:04:31,606 --> 01:04:42,466
This is more, it's closer to that, I would say, than it is to a United States where it's this huge geographical area where you have different states and many different cities and things like that.

833
01:04:42,966 --> 01:04:50,146
Panama really is a city state with some, you know, area where it produces its own agriculture and water and electricity and things like that.

834
01:04:50,206 --> 01:04:57,266
The other cities are so much smaller and less influential on Panama as a whole than Panama City is.

835
01:04:57,266 --> 01:05:01,446
What, the mayor of Panama City, does he know about free cities?

836
01:05:01,606 --> 01:05:06,766
uh no but maybe i'll have to sit down and have a conversation with him about it what i mean what

837
01:05:06,766 --> 01:05:10,266
about special just special economic zones are there we have the largest special economic zones

838
01:05:10,266 --> 01:05:16,586
in the world so i'm very sure he's aware of those what's that cologne cologne free trade zone we have

839
01:05:16,586 --> 01:05:20,486
knowledge village we have cologne free trade zone we have panama pacifico we have all of these free

840
01:05:20,486 --> 01:05:27,246
trade zones this is the panama canal this is how panama canal exists these are the the the the reason

841
01:05:27,246 --> 01:05:29,506
that Panama Canal can exist on these types of things.

842
01:05:29,926 --> 01:05:31,946
Goods come in, they move them around

843
01:05:31,946 --> 01:05:33,686
from shipping container to shipping container

844
01:05:33,686 --> 01:05:36,126
and they repackage them and they send them back out.

845
01:05:36,506 --> 01:05:37,686
Sometimes there's a value add,

846
01:05:37,766 --> 01:05:39,126
sometimes it's just repackaging.

847
01:05:39,306 --> 01:05:40,986
There's no tax, there's no import duties,

848
01:05:41,106 --> 01:05:42,126
there's nothing like this.

849
01:05:42,126 --> 01:05:46,746
I take it that you're interested in, of course.

850
01:05:47,326 --> 01:05:49,206
Have you spoken to anyone there about?

851
01:05:49,506 --> 01:05:50,746
Oh yes, oh yes.

852
01:05:50,826 --> 01:05:52,146
I've brought Tidus there.

853
01:05:52,346 --> 01:05:56,326
I've sat down in, we've had very important meetings.

854
01:05:56,326 --> 01:05:56,766
Can you say something?

855
01:05:56,766 --> 01:05:59,026
The problem is with Panama.

856
01:05:59,926 --> 01:06:01,606
Panama doesn't need us.

857
01:06:02,026 --> 01:06:02,286
Okay?

858
01:06:02,566 --> 01:06:04,386
They don't need us whatsoever.

859
01:06:04,866 --> 01:06:05,146
All right?

860
01:06:05,186 --> 01:06:06,906
It's already a safe and stable country.

861
01:06:07,006 --> 01:06:09,986
They already have massive amounts of foreign direct investment coming in.

862
01:06:10,486 --> 01:06:11,626
They don't need us.

863
01:06:11,686 --> 01:06:17,766
This is why you go to a place like Honduras, because nothing works there, because it's non-functional.

864
01:06:17,846 --> 01:06:19,286
It's basically a failed state.

865
01:06:19,886 --> 01:06:25,986
So they were open to ideas like this, because they needed foreign direct investment.

866
01:06:25,986 --> 01:06:27,546
They needed things coming in.

867
01:06:28,166 --> 01:06:30,706
But Panama is already set.

868
01:06:31,086 --> 01:06:35,486
So it's like, it's just, it's not going to happen there, I don't think.

869
01:06:35,486 --> 01:06:39,566
So do you think that the geopolitical landscape going forward then,

870
01:06:39,984 --> 01:06:43,704
places that need them are going to have them and no one else is going to bother.

871
01:06:44,084 --> 01:06:50,004
And I think that we will show, we will lead by example, and we will show a better way.

872
01:06:50,504 --> 01:06:56,284
And then people will leave places like Dubai and Panama and Singapore and things like that,

873
01:06:56,304 --> 01:06:59,884
and they will move to the free cities. And then I think these places will need to catch up.

874
01:06:59,884 --> 01:07:04,064
Just like people are leaving New York and California and stuff and moving to Panama and

875
01:07:04,064 --> 01:07:08,644
Costa Rica and all these countries, you know, and I think that there could be, maybe, will be,

876
01:07:08,644 --> 01:07:15,424
hopefully a change to some of these progressive places one thing i've thought about dubai and the

877
01:07:15,424 --> 01:07:21,024
emirates though is that they do seem to keep innovating they're not they're not sitting on

878
01:07:21,024 --> 01:07:24,344
their laurels they could have stopped a number of times when you look through the history of

879
01:07:24,344 --> 01:07:29,684
the evolution of the zones and the difc and all this kind of stuff they could have easily stopped

880
01:07:29,684 --> 01:07:34,444
but they keep they seem to keep going what do you think makes them different from say

881
01:07:35,304 --> 01:07:39,364
Well, Panama potentially could go further, right?

882
01:07:39,424 --> 01:07:40,164
According to you.

883
01:07:40,444 --> 01:07:41,464
It could go further.

884
01:07:41,704 --> 01:07:44,144
And I am going to encourage them to go further.

885
01:07:44,384 --> 01:07:49,664
And I know a lot of the mayors and I run, I write, you know, professional opinion letters

886
01:07:49,664 --> 01:07:50,344
to the government.

887
01:07:50,344 --> 01:07:56,624
And I sit in meetings with the ministers and try to encourage them to keep pushing the

888
01:07:56,624 --> 01:07:57,084
envelope.

889
01:07:57,404 --> 01:07:58,564
But it's very difficult.

890
01:07:58,764 --> 01:07:59,904
And bureaucrats are very difficult.

891
01:08:00,064 --> 01:08:02,824
If you look at the GCC countries, they're absolute monarchs.

892
01:08:02,944 --> 01:08:04,184
And they can make decisions.

893
01:08:04,184 --> 01:08:09,984
And you have a benevolent leader there who is very interested in pushing the envelope.

894
01:08:10,864 --> 01:08:14,084
And hopefully that they will continue in this.

895
01:08:14,224 --> 01:08:15,604
You know, there are two sides of this.

896
01:08:16,064 --> 01:08:27,384
But, you know, if you look, you know, back to our conversation on, you know, mainstream media and things like that, they want to tell you that democracy is the God that we should all bow in front of.

897
01:08:27,504 --> 01:08:29,744
And it's like, well, you're a hypocrite.

898
01:08:29,864 --> 01:08:31,664
I mean, once again, I think you're a liar.

899
01:08:31,664 --> 01:08:43,092
I don think democracy is the solution to this I lived in the UAE for eight years I lived in Abu Dhabi for eight years I can tell you I felt more free there than I did in Toronto

900
01:08:44,152 --> 01:08:51,072
I think the good thing in the UAE as well is that there's a competitiveness between the families,

901
01:08:51,292 --> 01:08:53,872
which is really useful when you think about it,

902
01:08:53,912 --> 01:08:55,712
because otherwise they could just stop.

903
01:08:56,332 --> 01:08:57,372
They'd stop in their tracks.

904
01:08:57,532 --> 01:09:01,112
Dubai is already like one of the top cities in the world.

905
01:09:01,112 --> 01:09:03,452
but they still want to make it better

906
01:09:03,452 --> 01:09:05,832
because they're worried about what some or so over there's doing.

907
01:09:05,832 --> 01:09:08,652
And I would argue that they are on a mission.

908
01:09:09,052 --> 01:09:11,852
I believe that they don't need to do this.

909
01:09:11,932 --> 01:09:13,672
Once again, they could ride off into the sunset.

910
01:09:13,792 --> 01:09:15,212
They're certainly not doing it for the money.

911
01:09:15,832 --> 01:09:17,752
They feel like they are on a mission.

912
01:09:18,092 --> 01:09:20,832
That's a guess, but I would say it's probably pretty accurate.

913
01:09:20,832 --> 01:09:21,972
And what mission do you reckon that is?

914
01:09:22,632 --> 01:09:23,392
I don't know.

915
01:09:24,812 --> 01:09:26,372
I would say it's better of a mission

916
01:09:26,372 --> 01:09:28,412
than what we're seeing in Western democracies.

917
01:09:28,412 --> 01:09:36,832
True. I mean, I've worked out there a lot. I used to go out there every year at least two or three times to Sharjah, actually. Sharjah next year.

918
01:09:36,972 --> 01:09:38,092
I know Sharjah very well.

919
01:09:38,092 --> 01:09:49,592
And my impression was that the Emiratis, especially the royal families, seemed to actually genuinely care for Emirati people. Do you know what I mean?

920
01:09:49,852 --> 01:09:57,212
There was an affection. There was a lot of affection between Emiratis. And they're very much in the minority there.

921
01:09:57,212 --> 01:10:02,432
is it it's hard to send to the population exactly 90 of the workforce are expats are for us

922
01:10:02,432 --> 01:10:09,692
so and i mean it's the i think it's one of the best adverts for the monarchy that there is

923
01:10:09,692 --> 01:10:15,752
currently for sure once you but what's your preferred uh kind of governance model then i'll

924
01:10:15,752 --> 01:10:20,852
take it as a free private city no yes leave leave me alone that's uh that's my type of government

925
01:10:20,852 --> 01:10:25,412
you know i don't uh i don't subscribe to any of these types of ideas well all i try to do is shine

926
01:10:25,412 --> 01:10:40,060
in a light that there are alternatives and what we been led to believe on Western democracies it not true I mean they scum They absolute liars and sociopaths They don have your best interests at heart

927
01:10:40,180 --> 01:10:42,860
And they want to point their finger at the Muslim world

928
01:10:42,860 --> 01:10:45,100
and say that they're all horrible people.

929
01:10:45,420 --> 01:10:47,980
And it's like, well, what about the UAE?

930
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:48,860
What about Oman?

931
01:10:48,980 --> 01:10:51,240
What about a lot of the countries in the Islamic world

932
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:52,420
that are actually super peaceful

933
01:10:52,420 --> 01:10:56,620
and are really innovating and doing interesting things there?

934
01:10:56,620 --> 01:11:06,700
So it's like, I'm going to sound like a parrot here. I'm going to repeat myself. But go out there and see, see with your own eyes if what I'm saying is true or not.

935
01:11:07,540 --> 01:11:11,160
So you're, but you're not an anarcho-capitalist then, are you?

936
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:25,280
I don't know what I am. I mean, I've been in this movement for 30 some odd years now. So I don't know. Am I an agorist? Am I an anarcho-capitalist? Am I a conservative? I'm a libertarian. I don't know what I am at this point.

937
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:29,580
Well, actually, what you are is someone just looking for a better life because...

938
01:11:29,580 --> 01:11:32,600
I'm looking for protecting my family and serving my clients.

939
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:36,580
Mark Edge goes on about this a lot, talking about Morazan.

940
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,960
It's the most libertarian place with no libertarians in it.

941
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:41,940
That's basically...

942
01:11:41,940 --> 01:11:44,860
And the reason is because it's better than Chaloma.

943
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:46,980
So people go from there to there.

944
01:11:47,340 --> 01:11:47,860
That's all we're doing.

945
01:11:47,860 --> 01:11:48,120
Amazing.

946
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:48,520
Yeah.

947
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:49,020
Amazing.

948
01:11:49,340 --> 01:11:50,300
Well, it is.

949
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:50,800
It's true.

950
01:11:51,180 --> 01:11:53,160
And what is libertarianism really?

951
01:11:53,260 --> 01:11:54,340
You don't even need to put a name on it.

952
01:11:54,340 --> 01:11:56,480
They don't know what libertarianism is.

953
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:58,220
They just know that life is better there.

954
01:11:58,520 --> 01:11:58,700
For sure.

955
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:01,580
So, yeah, it's just, it's a movement.

956
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,000
So come on then, let's wrap up on a positive note.

957
01:12:05,540 --> 01:12:06,660
You know, I'm black.

958
01:12:06,660 --> 01:12:09,000
For me, the whole thing has been positive note.

959
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:10,900
You know, I am super happy.

960
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:12,000
I am super blessed.

961
01:12:12,100 --> 01:12:16,420
I am super grateful for my clients and my family and everything that I have in my life.

962
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:19,180
I have been on a positive note this entire time.

963
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:19,980
I know, it's me.

964
01:12:20,140 --> 01:12:20,780
That's what I'm saying.

965
01:12:20,780 --> 01:12:23,920
But I'm just probably the scales then.

966
01:12:24,340 --> 01:12:39,628
A curmudgeon We got a curmudgeon Give me some advice then come on then i you know you know you know do you know a bit about my situation family well embedded in the uk love the culture love the place

967
01:12:39,628 --> 01:12:44,788
hate the government i'd be completely remiss to give you advice we are just started spending time

968
01:12:44,788 --> 01:12:48,908
together we've just started to build a relationship together i'd be remiss to give you advice i guess

969
01:12:48,908 --> 01:12:55,068
my only recommendation would be don't give up it's okay you're not alone you've got others that

970
01:12:55,068 --> 01:12:58,828
around you, people who care about you, and we'll get through it together. It's going to be all right.

971
01:12:59,788 --> 01:13:05,888
Amen to that. Amen to that. Thank you, Mikel. You're absolutely right. Thanks for coming in.

972
01:13:06,168 --> 01:13:06,728
My pleasure.

973
01:13:07,168 --> 01:13:13,388
I've very much enjoyed this. I will, hopefully, I'm planning to come to Central America

974
01:13:13,388 --> 01:13:18,588
next year because there's so much going on there now. I want to see these places. I've been to

975
01:13:18,588 --> 01:13:22,548
Prospera, but I've not been to Morazon. I've not been to Panama. I've not been to Costa Rica. None

976
01:13:22,548 --> 01:13:27,088
of the Veritas villages locations, nothing. I really want to see him with my own eyes because

977
01:13:27,088 --> 01:13:32,628
I, you know, I'm embedded in it, but it's still hard to know what the hell's going on there

978
01:13:32,628 --> 01:13:37,048
without actually being there on the ground. Yeah. Come see us. We'd love to host you. We'd love to

979
01:13:37,048 --> 01:13:42,568
show you around and it's going to be awesome. I will. Great. Many thanks and good luck.

980
01:13:42,908 --> 01:13:47,028
Thank you very much. And if you guys want to learn more about what I do, if you want to follow the

981
01:13:47,028 --> 01:13:52,828
podcast, you can go to expatmoneyshow.com. We put out a new podcast episode every single Wednesday

982
01:13:52,828 --> 01:13:59,628
for the last decade. We have multiple newsletters, monthly webinars, quarterly tours and trips,

983
01:14:00,128 --> 01:14:04,028
summits, conferences, huge amount of going on at expatmoney.com.

984
01:14:04,568 --> 01:14:10,388
And drop down into the show notes for all those links. And yeah, thank you very much indeed.

985
01:14:10,388 --> 01:14:10,888
Thanks, Tim.

986
01:14:17,028 --> 01:14:19,928
...

987
01:14:19,928 --> 01:14:22,028
...

988
01:14:22,188 --> 01:14:23,928
...

989
01:14:23,928 --> 01:14:24,108
...