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Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast

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of the Free Cities Foundation.

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Hello and welcome to this episode number 154 of the Free Cities podcast,

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brought to you by our wonderful sponsors of the show, Veritas Villages.

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Veritas Villages are freedom-oriented energy, self-sufficient communities in Latin America

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designed for people who want to enjoy peace of mind and real freedom in these uncertain times.

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You can buy your property in a Veritas Village with Bitcoin and all communities use Bitcoin.

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More info here, of course, www.veritasvillages.com forward slash free cities.

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Everything you need to know in the show notes.

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Now, you're either currently at the Free Cities Conference listening to this or more likely you're back home reminiscing about everything you did

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at the world's biggest and best gathering of free city folk either way hello from me i hope you're

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having a wonderful time i'm almost certain i had a wonderful time or am having a wonderful time

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which brings me on to the subject of today's episode kind of not a great segue but today's

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episode is a two-parter that i've been deliberately saving for this particular moment in time and

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there's a strategic reason for that. Firstly, it's three and a half hours long, so it's perfect

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to split into two chunks. Secondly, more importantly, conference weekend is by far the

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busiest week in my calendar in the year, and as such, I have little or no time to edit podcasts.

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So by splitting this one into two, I've decreased my workload considerably, and as you probably know,

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I run this podcast kind of part-time I'd like to be full-time I think that's coming

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but currently it's part-time and I have to balance up my other life and my other work

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with being able to edit these episodes so what I've done is I've prepared part one quite easily

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without a video release this week I will be releasing the video of this episode in its

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entirety next week so this week you've just got an audio one and this introduction that's the only

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real work I have to do so that gives me all the time in the world to completely immerse myself

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in the Free Cities conference where believe it or not over the days of the conference I'm recording

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four interviews a day imagine that's like eight hours of talking I will almost certainly have a

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croaky voice by the end of it. Anyway, there is a third reason for splitting this into two,

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and that is that I'll be recording some pretty hardcore Free Cities content in Prague. So the

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next few months of content will reflect that, and I think this episode could be considered a kind of

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antidote to that. It's one of the more weirder ones. Today I'm speaking with Swedish doctor

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Yoni Appleberg. This is a very long conversation about health, spirituality and technology and

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how to find freedom in each of these domains. I'm going to let the AI explain both parts

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so you can prepare yourself. This of course is part one. In this episode we explore the

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intersection of health, technology and spirituality. We discuss the evolution of medicine

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from survival to longevity science, focusing on biogerontology's aim to treat aging itself

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as the root of modern disease. Yoni talks about his philosophy in abundance through scarcity,

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arguing that Bitcoin's provable scarcity underpins civilization's ability to build lasting abundance.

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The conversation then widens into transhumanism, AI and the search for meaning, questioning whether technological progress truly enhances human happiness.

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yoni shares his personal journey through ayahuasca peyote and bufo alvaria ceremonies

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describing transformative experiences of death emptiness and rebirth that deepen his understanding

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of the body mind spirit connection and the importance of living fully in the present

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so it's one of those episodes we dive deep part two which you'll be able to listen to next week

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will be somewhat more grounded as we explore the intersection of medicine consciousness and

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civilization he shares how he integrates body mind awareness relaxation and holistic approaches

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into his medical practice helping patients address depression ptsd and chronic pain

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when traditional medicine falls short we discuss the therapeutic use of psychedelics

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emphasizing intention, environment and physiological balance through lifestyle changes.

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Yoni connects these healing philosophies to broader societal issues,

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arguing that the fiat monetary system drives civilizational decline through short-term thinking and moral decay,

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eroding culture, education and health.

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we discuss immigration population collapse and the loss of cultural wisdom framing bitcoin as

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a potential antidote of course a tool for restoring long-term thinking and stability

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we reflect on the kardashef scale technologies role in human evolution and the timeless need

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to rediscover presence meaning and authentic human connection i told you it was a big one

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most definitely better to split it into two parts part one does start a bit slowly to say the least

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we do meander a little in the beginning and that's really because the subject is vast that we're

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speaking about anyway i'm going to be brief this week because i'm getting ready for prague packing

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my stuff thank you to all our subscribers on fountain subs get all the bonus episodes as you

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know and if you like extremely long form conversation like this one well there's three

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and a half hours with gg the bitcoin og there's three and a half hours with jake hamilton he's an

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erbit and bitcoin dev and the latest one was an interview with jack mozuko right time to get into

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it you'll need to adopt a very comfortable meditative posture for this one really then

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And as you do so, just sit back, relax and enjoy my conversation with Yoni Appleberg.

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It's not like I drink a lot out of water bottles.

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We have our own spring at home.

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I live on a kind of farm.

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Congratulations.

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I mean, drinking out of a plastic bottle, the reason we do it is for convenience.

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And I mean, convenience always comes at a cost.

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But it is one of the low-hanging fruits if you really want to be eliminating microplastics.

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But you don't reckon they're such a big deal then?

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It could be.

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We don't know yet.

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That's the only thing we can say.

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But I mean, you could say that you're arguing from first principles when you say that introducing foreign objects into the body and you find them in all kinds of tissues.

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Like just recently, there was a study that came out about finding excessive amounts of microplastics in the brains of people with Alzheimer's.

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Small study, but it still had power.

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It still had statistical significance.

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But correlation does not equal causation.

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There's a lot of smoke, not a lot of fire.

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And so far, we have absolutely no evidence that microplastics is damaging the human physiology.

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We can only see correlates, but no evidence of anything yet.

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Still, it makes sense if it's not too cumbersome to just eliminate a lot of it.

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The primary sources through which we absorb microplastics are actually not water bottles I think they come in second or third place

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I think the first one is just being a human being in a modern society.

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Really?

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Yes.

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Like from where though?

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Where are microplastics hanging around?

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I know chopping boards, but that seems like a pretty brutal example.

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Yeah.

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The honest answer is we don't know.

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They are everywhere.

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forever chemicals and microplastics are so abundant and so ubiquitous that it's like the

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air we breathe now. We just cannot escape them. So that's the primary source just everywhere,

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essentially, but that's not saying anything. So if we disregard that source, we are left with

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clothes and water bottles as our primary sources. And those are pretty low-hanging fruits if you

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just want to get rid of some microplastics. Just say bye-bye to cheap plastic clothes and water

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bottles. Then the occasional use, I'm sure, is fine. I don't think this is something that we need

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to worry about. There's a lot of things we can do to improve our health that doesn't involve

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going the extra mile with stuff that you enjoy. If you live a life where drinking out of a water

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bottle is part of your daily routine because it suits your life, your routines, I am absolutely

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not going to judge you on that. And I don't think you need to worry too much about that. There's

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a lot of other things that can go wrong. And we also have to remember that right now we live in

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what I call the second medical paradigm.

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This is actually part of my talk, my longevity talk.

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So we advanced from, we have advanced from the first medical paradigm.

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The first medical paradigm, this was the vast majority of human history, 99.99% of our history.

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You mean, I mean, there's quite a big difference between, you know,

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Stubbing your, breaking your leg as a Neanderthal and breaking your leg now.

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Yes, yes, exactly.

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But you call that the same paradigm?

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No, no, that's a different paradigm.

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Oh, right, okay.

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So in the first medical paradigm, I call that survival medicine.

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We had four horsemen back then, four big killers.

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They were starvation, trauma, infection, and childbirth complications.

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then we discovered antibiotics anesthesia we had we discovered germs germ theory and we had some

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economic development and some modern sanitation this essentially addressed the root causes of

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the big killers of the era of survival medicine. And that launched us in the 20th century into the

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second medical paradigm where we are now. And I call this paradigm management medicine.

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So with each paradigm shift in medicine, you address the root causes of the previous

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horsemen, the previous big killers. And then you face new challenges.

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So what we're facing now instead are things like cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease, mostly Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, cancer and metabolic disorders like type 2 diabetes.

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Are you saying cancer is a modern occurrence or just that we're living so long now that it shows up?

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So these four horsemen, these four big killers in aggregate account for 90% of all deaths and 90% of all healthcare costs.

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And cancer is a group of about 200 different illnesses that essentially have nothing in common with one another.

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So when we say find a cure for cancer, that's just...

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It's nonsense.

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Yeah, it's nonsense.

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There are about 200 different diseases.

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We group them together because they look similar under the microscope, essentially.

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It's about cells mutating and running amok.

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The cellular internal apparatus, the cellular society is collapsing,

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losing the restrictions on how the cell divides.

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So it divides like fiat money, just indefinitely and uncontrollably.

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That's why the cancer metaphor is such a great metaphor for the fiat system.

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Anyway, so even if we were to address, let's say that we were to cure all cancers, if we were to cure all cardiovascular disease, if we were to cure all metabolic disorders,

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we are still going to die from something like an infection when we reach biological

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when we when we go deep into old age when we reach biological

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um when we get really old and we have become fragile we don't have the resources to combat

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these diseases. And if we cure Alzheimer's, well, then you're going to die of a heart attack instead.

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If we cure cardiovascular disease, then you're going to die of a neurodegenerative disease.

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If we cure that, you're going to die of cancer. And all of these diseases, they are

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inevitable biological consequences of aging. Everybody's going to have all of these diseases,

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these four horsemen of this era if they just live long enough it's an inevitable consequence

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of biological aging and that's why we're now again for the second time in human history

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moving into another medical paradigm and i got goosebumps just thinking about this

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because now we have finally arrived at a technological state of society

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where we can actually conduct research into the biology of aging,

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and we can address the root cause of these four horsemen,

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which is the aging cell.

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So now we have a new and emerging field in medicine.

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which is called biogerontology longevity medicine so what did you say bio bio gerontology bio

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gerontology geron as in geriatric yes exactly gerontology i've never heard that word before

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that's the that's the real term for longevity medicine and it's a new and emerging field that

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is just upending an entire paradigm of modern medicine of medicine period because what we're

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doing now is that we are finally addressing the root causes of the four big killers we have today,

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neurodegenerative disease, cancer, metabolic disorders, and cardiovascular disease. But by

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tackling the root cause, which is the aging cell, we are tackling aging itself. And here's, Tim,

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here's something very, very crucial that for some reason triggers a lot of people.

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Like what we're doing now, the next paradigm of medicine is about treating aging itself.

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And people are countering this with like, this is going to create ageism.

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And there's nothing wrong with aging.

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Aging is natural.

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Yeah, fair.

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Aging is absolutely natural.

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So is having heart attacks, cancer, and Alzheimer's and diabetes.

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In fact, you are going to have all of those if you just live long enough.

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It's an inevitable consequence of biological aging.

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They are as natural as becoming old and frail.

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Or rather, becoming old and frail is as natural as those diseases.

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And what we call a disease is entirely arbitrary.

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A disease is a human invention.

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not the phenomenon but what we call a disease is a human invention

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it wasn't until just a few decades ago that both alzheimer's and osteoporosis

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were not diseases they were natural aging

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but it's important to put the label disease on something that we want to treat because that

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allows us to actually fund research and produce the technology that we need to treat those conditions And they basically getting old is basically aging cells That essentially it And Alzheimer is aging of the cells in your brain maybe

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I don't know.

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Yes, yes.

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Something like that.

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Yes, yes, yes.

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So here's a radical notion.

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Cancer, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's, type 2 diabetes,

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these are not diseases.

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They are symptoms of the same underlying condition.

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which is the aging cell.

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And the aging cell is a consequence

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of about nine different diseases at the cellular level.

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So now we are increasing granularity.

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We are understanding the cell better.

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So the human story can in a way be told

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through the journey of how we understand the cell.

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First, for many, many, many generations,

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we did not know that we were made of cells.

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Then we discovered the cell.

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We realized that we were made of tiny structures called the cell.

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Then we learned that they operate like societies,

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that they are alive in themselves,

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and they don't know about us.

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and we discovered that we are vastly more of something other than ourselves

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in terms of the amount of biomass that we have in our bodies.

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You can look at yourself as a composite of a variety of different systems.

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You have all of your bacteria, for example,

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that is absolutely crucial to you being alive.

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Then you have your immune system,

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which is like an entirely different being than you.

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It's like an entirely different being living inside of you.

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It has to learn to recognize you as you.

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It has to undergo a process that is done in early age in the thymus,

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which is an organ just behind your chest bone.

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where they learn about something called the missing self.

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So any structure, any protein in the body,

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any structure that has entered the body

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and doesn't contain certain proteins that say,

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this is the human being, this is the organism that we're protecting.

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It's going to attack that.

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So the immune system lives within us

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and it is an entity of its own that has to learn what you are.

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And then protect itself, protect the organism, and attack everything else.

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Then we have the nervous system, which is maybe what we associate with the most.

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But that's an entirely different being as well.

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So we consist of these systems, and we have this illusion of being a coherent being.

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We have this illusion of having a coherent story.

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and one of the most frightening things that you can do as a person is to shatter that belief

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there are there are a variety of ways of doing so i know this is a tangent on a tangent

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this is this is what happens when we don't have a framework i have a proper framework

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i've got an idea for a proper framework um yeah i think i'd like to hear before we go any further

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I'd like to hear your personal story, which is that you're a doctor.

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Yes.

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You're a practicing doctor.

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Yes.

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What would you, we would call like a GP, a general practitioner.

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Yes, yes.

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I'm a GP.

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It's a very unfortunate name, and this warrants some clarification

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of what it means to be a GP.

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A lot of people think that being a GP is something

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that you become straight out of med school.

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It is not.

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med school is five and a half years where I study. Then you do rotations for about two years,

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where you do three months of medicine, three months of surgery, three months of psychiatry,

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and about half a year of primary care. Then after that, you start to specialize. And that's five

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years, regardless of what you do, whether you do surgery, whether you do pediatrics, whether you do

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um primary care and i went into primary care and being a specialist in primary care is a much better

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term than a gp we have our primary care give me an example what primary care is so we do essentially

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everything i'm trying to narrow it down okay you do everything yeah we do essentially everything

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We do eyes, we do ears, nose, throat, we do neurology, we do internal medicine, we do surgery, we do psychiatry, we do pediatrics, we do geriatrics, we do gynecology.

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We do essentially everything, but we do the most, like the surface level things.

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Right, diagnosing and...

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Diagnosing and treating. So we do the common stuff and our job is to take care of all the common stuff.

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We can do quite a lot until we have to send you to an organ specialist.

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So like when I send somebody to a psychiatrist, for example, it's not because that person is necessarily too challenging.

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It's because we treat different diagnoses.

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Most of the diagnoses in psychiatry that we treat, they don't even see.

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We take care of most depression.

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We take care of most PTSD.

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We take care of most anxiety.

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We diagnose and treat some psychosis.

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Then there's some conditions that we don't treat.

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We don't do OCD, for example.

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We don't do severe psychosis.

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We don't do therapy-resistant depression.

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and we don't do the social cases that require a lot of interprofessional engagement.

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And so those are the reasons where we send them off to an organ specialist,

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like conditions that we just don't treat because the condition is too dangerous to be,

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you need to up the level of care.

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Or just stuff where it's too cumbersome, like we can't tie all the threads together.

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but other than that we do most things yeah yeah but the reason that you and me are talking now is

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because you also you're a bitcoiner and you wrote a book about about bitcoin i would say

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yeah i haven't i honestly haven't read it myself but just from the title

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it's called abundance through scarcity abundance through scarcity i'm very proud of the title

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yeah it's a good title i mean can you can you first of all um because i i i straddled a two

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worlds for quite a long time i think it's fair to say the world of um filmmaking and bitcoin

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and i discovered it was quite difficult to keep a foot in both because one of them started meaning

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less and less than less to me as i got further and further further into the other one you by the

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sounds of it have straddled these two worlds let's say bitcoin and health but you appear to

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have found a way to bridge the two and um i i'm quite interested to hear how that is i honestly

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don't know what the thread is but i hope you're going to tell me maybe you give us a bit quick

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thesis on the book first might help us understand yeah so it is it is challenging to juggle

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I work like I don't know 150% as a doctor I work at two different clinics and then I'm writing and

283
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I'm active in the big community as a speaker I'm working on a second book and all of this is

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completely manageable if you just focus on staying single and having regular panic attacks

285
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and you don't even treat panic attacks in your practice

286
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no so the um i mean the essentially what like what i'm so proud about when it comes to abundance

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through scarcity is that it manages to do a lot of things it lays out a thesis on

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on how we are in a civilizational decline and going towards collapse and how bitcoin is a shield

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against that and it it lays out the thesis on how we achieve abundance through scarcity

290
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and also packed within that book there's also a lot of like cool sci-fi gems and a lot of thought

291
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experiments about bitcoin like big picture stuff the the kind of big picture ideas about bitcoin

292
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um that just blow my mind just philosophical aspects so if if you really want to understand Bitcoin from a fundamental perspective i suggest you don go into just the economics and the technology you need to understand the

293
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philosophy of bitcoin to understand what this what the implications are for humanity and society

294
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and civilization long term and that's what my bitcoin that that's what my book does in a very

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accessible way so you know in a in a in a very crude way i'm just dissecting the title here

296
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are you saying that the scarcity is bitcoin and the abundance is achieved through

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integrating with bitcoin in in many levels yeah yeah so when something is provably

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provably scarce uh that creates the properties to um to allow that thing to store and transmit

299
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value reliably across time and space and it is it is a prerequisite for building value it is a

300
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precondition for for abundance because the opposite when we have a currency abundance

301
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we get economic scarcity

302
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because we are diluting value.

303
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And for this thesis to make sense

304
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you have to understand what money is.

305
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And money is, all forms of money

306
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is a ledger.

307
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It is a ledger which is a...

308
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Who owes what to who.

309
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Yes, exactly.

310
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It is a collective memory system of past economic events.

311
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So I like to look at any ledger as an abacus.

312
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The ledger is the actual framework and then the tokens within the monetary system, those are the beads.

313
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And that's essentially what money is.

314
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And what money allows us to do is to coordinate the workforce, coordinate our resources.

315
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it allows us to store and safeguard the value of our labor in a token that we can move in time and

316
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space it is a technology that lets us cooperate across continents and generations so people who

317
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have never met will never meet don't speak the same language come from vastly different cultures

318
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and ideologies can work on the same project under the same collective hallucination that

319
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money is something that works to do this. So that's why it's money is the, it is the,

320
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it is the engine behind the evolution of culture and technology. And if we have broken money,

321
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we're going to have broken societies, broken people. If we have sound money, we're going to

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have we will be able to we have no idea how far humanity can go I suspect we can go a lot farther

323
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than we think I think we're gonna become a card of type 3 civilization if we can prove that

324
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um traversing space is actually possible that's essentially the only missing piece from our

325
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physics you better explain what I think there's a lot to unpack here we were just quickly quickly

326
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type 3 civilization

327
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what is it what is a kardeshad

328
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okay so is it kardeshad yeah

329
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kardeshev kardeshev yeah so

330
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nikolai kardeshev he was a

331
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soviet astrophysicist that in

332
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1964 or 68 i think

333
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came up with the

334
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kardeshev scale which

335
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is a

336
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cosmologist framework on

337
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how to

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look at other look at

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a civilization how technologically

340
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advanced they are

341
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so and he made this a three-tiered system the the first a type one civilization it

342
00:32:05,980 --> 00:32:13,760
burns plants and animals for energy um or sorry a type zero civilization burns plants and animals

343
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:19,200
for for uh their energy they take what's immediately in front of them essentially

344
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a type one civilization that's a civilization that controls the weather controls the plate

345
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tectonics control their planet's orbit they have access to every watt of energy that is accessible

346
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on their on their planet so we're not even type one yeah absolutely not oh right that's a big jump

347
00:32:38,260 --> 00:32:45,260
from yeah yeah yes yes yes so our type one civilization is vastly more superior than us

348
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technologically and this is a so we are about 0.6 maybe 0.7 and you would say okay that's not a very

349
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big leap to a type one civilization. But yeah, it's actually a logarithmic scale. So that would

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mean that we would have to increase our energy output by 10,000 fold to become a type one

351
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civilization. So not just doubling our energy production and consumption, not triple it,

352
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not quadruple it. We have to increase it 10,000 fold to become a carter's type one civilization.

353
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:27,800
It's interesting that he invented a scale which goes a long way up.

354
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Normally when you would create a scale, you would put human civilization at probably halfway up.

355
00:33:34,460 --> 00:33:34,800
He's not.

356
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,460
He's putting it right down there, isn't he?

357
00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:38,240
The rest of the scale goes up to here.

358
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He's got a big mind, a big, beautiful mind.

359
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So, okay.

360
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A type 2 civilization is a civilization that controls all of the energy accessible in their solar system.

361
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So they're a stellar civilization, and the Type 3 civilization controls the entire galaxy.

362
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So they roam the galactic space lanes.

363
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They have colonized several solar systems.

364
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,980
So yeah, they control an incredible amount of energy.

365
00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:08,780
And it's even...

366
00:34:08,780 --> 00:34:12,580
We can't even speculate what these separate beings would be.

367
00:34:12,820 --> 00:34:14,360
But what would you do with that much energy?

368
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You would create black holes.

369
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You would possibly fight intergalactic wars with things like black hole generators and producing nebulas.

370
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,580
I mean, you would possibly even code different universes.

371
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Right.

372
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Yeah.

373
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:40,580
It makes me wonder, without jumping too far into the future, what's the point of it all?

374
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,600
I mean, this is a very small tangent.

375
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:53,580
I don't intend to go in here for very long, but whenever I have that conversation about the future, I have it a lot these days with kind of transhumanism and that future.

376
00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:56,600
The question always is, but why?

377
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,840
Like, are you happy in your garden digging the ground?

378
00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:04,460
And are you happy?

379
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:05,500
Are you content?

380
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,800
So why do you need to create?

381
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,700
This is such a fantastic question.

382
00:35:09,940 --> 00:35:12,560
I hope you appreciate the depth of this question.

383
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,820
Yeah, I don't know what the answer is. Put it that way.

384
00:35:15,060 --> 00:35:23,340
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that where we are right now, I think we are in one of the worst periods of human history.

385
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:30,160
I wouldn't want to live like 50,000 years ago. I wouldn't. I would prefer to live now because I am a coward.

386
00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:41,440
I enjoy having modern medicine. I love having security. I love having being clean, being able to take a hot shower and, you know, all of these things that we have access to today.

387
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,640
but I'm not happier for it.

388
00:35:44,180 --> 00:35:46,860
I think we were a lot happier as hunter-gatherers.

389
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,860
I think that when we became domesticized

390
00:35:50,860 --> 00:35:53,540
by corn and grain and animals,

391
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,440
we were not the ones that domesticized them.

392
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They domesticized us.

393
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:04,880
And that introduced a lot of illness and unhappiness.

394
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,280
And the only reason I think...

395
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:23,520
And you may counter and say, like, okay, well, as a hunter-gatherer, living in deep connection with nature, cosmos, each other, and self, and God, you didn't have...

396
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:39,620
Is that worth the cost of not having medicine, being ill and die, losing your children, and having to suffer everything that was essentially what we had in the first medical paradigm, the survival medicine paradigm?

397
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:46,120
trauma would kill you, infection would kill you, you break a leg, okay, you're done for,

398
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:54,980
you would lose your children, you would starve, your partner would have a child and she would die

399
00:36:54,980 --> 00:37:05,300
in the process. Horrible, horrible things. But life is what we make of it. It is all about framing.

400
00:37:05,300 --> 00:37:15,160
If you live in connection with nature and God, you have a very different relationship with death and trauma and suffering and pain.

401
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:25,360
In a way that has become, this has actually become a pathology in modern society, our relationship with death, our relationship with disease.

402
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,940
It has become the defining factor of how we live.

403
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:39,080
lead our lives. We are all scared. And we're scared to a degree that we are forgetting what

404
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:46,860
it even means to be human. The only reason that I still find it very valuable being on this

405
00:37:46,860 --> 00:37:54,120
technological journey that we are on now is that I believe that we are going to land someplace that

406
00:37:54,120 --> 00:38:00,600
is going to be truly beautiful someday in the future i believe that we're gonna build the solar

407
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:11,820
punk society where we can again be connected with god nature self other and reap the benefits

408
00:38:11,820 --> 00:38:20,940
of technology that we've built to complement us rather than exploit us i'm gonna i'm gonna push

409
00:38:20,940 --> 00:38:29,640
back on that in the sense that what about the idea that you you've just described a kind of

410
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:37,540
utopia that exists let's call it heaven i think many people would say that heaven is here now

411
00:38:37,540 --> 00:38:43,860
i know we're jumping straight in feet first here but whatever fuck it heaven is here right now yes

412
00:38:43,860 --> 00:38:50,680
yes yes right if if you're not living in heaven um it's not through want of trying because you have

413
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:57,460
access to it right now yes and if you place heaven in a future utopia you're actually locking yourself

414
00:38:57,460 --> 00:39:04,780
out yes 100 right so how does that fit in with what you're saying now then i don't think that

415
00:39:04,780 --> 00:39:14,380
that they are mutually exclusive i think that we can still work towards creating a better world for

416
00:39:14,380 --> 00:39:22,500
for humanity and building a better society because the only constant is is change there's

417
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:27,000
never been when people talk about things being normal there is no such thing as more normal that

418
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:32,140
has never been a normal the only possibly normal state of humanity is being a hunter-gatherer

419
00:39:32,140 --> 00:39:39,400
because that's what we were the longest but now being the sex organs of technology as we are

420
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:50,740
We are entering an age where things are changing so much faster because technology is now, for the first time in history, evolving past us in a sense.

421
00:39:51,580 --> 00:40:00,960
We are now living in a pivotal time when technology is no longer simply an extension of who we are.

422
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,740
The fork is an extension of our hands.

423
00:40:05,020 --> 00:40:07,100
Glasses is an extension of our eyes.

424
00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:16,620
headphones microphones computer all extensions of us but now we have things like ai and a lot of

425
00:40:16,620 --> 00:40:27,160
people are relying more and more on their ais to make decisions they are they are outsourcing

426
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:33,500
their cognition in a way that is not necessarily very healthy we're losing

427
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:37,740
cognitive autonomy to the robots.

428
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:43,500
We are becoming less inclined

429
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:44,480
to make our own decisions.

430
00:40:44,780 --> 00:40:48,000
So we are now an extension of technology

431
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:48,900
rather than the opposite.

432
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,280
Or isn't AI an extension of the brain?

433
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:52,620
You were talking about glasses,

434
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:53,720
extension of the eye.

435
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:55,260
It is an extension of the brain,

436
00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,480
but since we are now making decisions

437
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,260
based on what the AI is saying,

438
00:41:02,260 --> 00:41:08,360
we are we are become an extension of the technology have you ever read that book um

439
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:14,580
what technology wants uh i've seen a youtube video on it i haven't read the actual book yeah

440
00:41:14,580 --> 00:41:21,300
he he's you're describing something that he wrote a book around he called it the technium

441
00:41:21,300 --> 00:41:29,920
the technium was the technium is the technological realm and um it's a life form

442
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:40,400
and it basically requires us to create it and um so if you track technology and i'm talking about

443
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,600
even sticks and you know fashioning sticks into spears one of the most important technologies

444
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:50,160
ever part of the technium right up to computers and lights and all this stuff this is all

445
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:55,400
the technium and i can't remember whether he said this in the book or not because i read it a long

446
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:02,420
time ago but since then i i think i thought these thoughts myself but who bloody knows these days

447
00:42:02,420 --> 00:42:10,820
but it became apparent to me that what was actually going on was we as humans were creating

448
00:42:10,820 --> 00:42:18,700
a replica of our insides on the outside and in the for it by for example the technium

449
00:42:18,700 --> 00:42:26,340
is evolved into what we see now you would call it like the the brain of the planet we're all

450
00:42:26,340 --> 00:42:34,500
connected we're basically creating something that is us in in our outside world and and um it seems

451
00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:39,960
like it really is happening i mean people's been speaking about these kind of things for a while

452
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:45,160
that you know google was i thought it would be google you know google's taking all this data

453
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,340
in real time of what everyone's thinking,

454
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:52,440
typing in their searches and creating this kind of,

455
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,280
this being which understands us way better

456
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:56,460
than we understand ourselves.

457
00:42:57,020 --> 00:42:59,220
But that was a very crude version of it

458
00:42:59,220 --> 00:43:00,100
when you think about it.

459
00:43:00,140 --> 00:43:01,580
And we haven't even got to the point

460
00:43:01,580 --> 00:43:04,660
where technology is really embedded in us.

461
00:43:04,780 --> 00:43:05,260
Right.

462
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:07,780
The transhuman aspect.

463
00:43:08,500 --> 00:43:08,600
Right.

464
00:43:08,820 --> 00:43:10,520
It's almost certainly, it is ahead of us.

465
00:43:10,620 --> 00:43:11,660
There are no question about it.

466
00:43:11,660 --> 00:43:23,080
Now, at that point, you've created the myths of most religions, which is that we are all connected and that we are all one and that we are.

467
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,740
But we actually are.

468
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:34,840
And this myth has come, you know, we've projected this myth out into the real world with actual real life, touchable, physical things.

469
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,420
I mean, like I say, I'm not sure that happens in the book.

470
00:43:37,420 --> 00:43:41,860
It's just something that seems really obvious and apparent that that is what we're creating.

471
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,260
We are creating like God or whatever.

472
00:43:45,540 --> 00:43:47,820
Like, I mean, it's a very broad word, God.

473
00:43:47,940 --> 00:43:49,140
I don't really know whether.

474
00:43:50,260 --> 00:43:53,280
God is a perfectly usable term.

475
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:54,520
I use it for a lot of things.

476
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,640
Yeah, but you don't know what I'm using it for.

477
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:57,080
That's the problem.

478
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,720
It's hard to communicate the word.

479
00:44:00,060 --> 00:44:02,820
You have to be specific with what you mean when you use the word God.

480
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,680
Yeah, but we're going to go all over the place if we're not careful here.

481
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:33,380
Can we go back to, can we go back to, um, I like the, I like the transhuman story because it's an inevitable. And then also you're a, you're a doctor. So you, you probably know a lot more about it than me because you see it happening. Like you say, at the moment, glasses are a form of transhumanism. They're just sitting on your nose. I've actually had my eyes done and I've had, you know, people have plastic lenses put in their eyes.

482
00:44:33,380 --> 00:44:39,240
this is a bit more down that route you know the things we have put inside us but we're the place

483
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:47,860
we're going to is for me at least is a i'm quite in two minds as to whether um it comes back to

484
00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:53,160
that question again but why like sure if i want to compete with everyone else in this world i might

485
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,860
have to be transhuman but wait a minute what why am i can but what am i getting like what what what

486
00:44:57,860 --> 00:45:03,920
drives my life am i happy to just be very simple and if that's the case there's no need for me to

487
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:10,520
to compete with everyone else to try and achieve xyz you know yeah you have to ask what what you

488
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:17,480
as an individual want what we want as as a species what our genes want what society wants

489
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:30,940
you are perfectly right in pushing back on this by asking why because we can't think that

490
00:45:30,940 --> 00:45:39,020
happiness lies on the other side of an achievement it doesn't there is no happiness when you have

491
00:45:39,020 --> 00:45:43,780
money there's no happiness because you get the girl there's no happiness because you get to

492
00:45:43,780 --> 00:45:50,600
travel the world. There's no happiness because you get that apartment that you want. The illusion

493
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:57,680
is incredibly powerful. It's incredibly powerful. It can convince you time and time again, even if

494
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:03,080
you have proven to yourself time and time again, that no, happiness does not exist on the opposite

495
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:08,960
of an achievement, on the other side of an achievement. It just does not. And that's a

496
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:16,480
feature not a bug it's a feature not a bug because that's what dopamine is is evolutionarily designed

497
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:25,100
to do if you were perfectly content after having eaten a meal and that contentment was lasting you

498
00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:31,160
would never eat again if you were perfectly content with having sex one time you were you

499
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:36,980
were happy you you found peace after you had sex and it's and it's gonna last then then our species

500
00:46:36,980 --> 00:46:45,200
would die happiness is fleeting on and that's by design and when i say mean design i don't mean

501
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:59,340
intelligent design i mean design as in evolution designed it it is purposeful in the sense that it is how our species survives and the illusion that we gonna have happiness and peace on the other side of that thing that we want

502
00:46:59,340 --> 00:47:06,180
it is incredibly powerful because we really want to go there that's what dopamine is do you know

503
00:47:06,180 --> 00:47:11,700
what though just made me think that this all the all this modern medicine and longevity stuff it's

504
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:19,340
all about hack hacking you right and if you understand that about dopamine that it's just

505
00:47:19,340 --> 00:47:25,300
there as a as a driver to get you to do stuff you can hack that away can't you really because

506
00:47:25,300 --> 00:47:31,420
you know you and i know that it's an it's you could say it's unnecessary because if you are

507
00:47:31,420 --> 00:47:36,100
the kind of person that doesn't really care to push boundaries do better do whatever if you

508
00:47:36,100 --> 00:47:41,540
then you could just hack it hack your life and say right it's not going to have an effect on me

509
00:47:41,540 --> 00:47:45,080
or I'm literally going to take a pill to suppress dopamine.

510
00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:45,820
I don't know, whatever.

511
00:47:46,060 --> 00:47:48,500
I think the best hack is actually a spiritual one.

512
00:47:49,300 --> 00:47:53,740
And that is to realize that heaven is here right now, just as you said.

513
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,760
It is to realize that you are not your thoughts.

514
00:47:58,240 --> 00:47:59,400
You are not your emotions.

515
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:00,960
You are not your body.

516
00:48:01,620 --> 00:48:03,580
You are merely the observer.

517
00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:08,940
You are the observer that watches the movie that goes on before your eyes.

518
00:48:08,940 --> 00:48:14,760
You are the observer of the emotions that comes and goes as waves through your bodies.

519
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:16,900
That's your body talking to you, by the way.

520
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,460
Learn the language of the body.

521
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:20,300
Don't just put words on it.

522
00:48:20,620 --> 00:48:21,780
Learn the language of the body.

523
00:48:22,020 --> 00:48:25,940
That is one thing I encourage everybody to do.

524
00:48:27,060 --> 00:48:33,740
And you are the silent observer of your thoughts, emotions, and the life that happens.

525
00:48:34,260 --> 00:48:35,620
And you are not your body.

526
00:48:35,620 --> 00:48:42,540
what body gives you i've radically changed my relationship with my body after an ayahuasca

527
00:48:42,540 --> 00:48:46,760
experience so i had an ayahuasca people have

528
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:59,420
this tim this is incredible i i i radically changed my relationship with the body i'm not

529
00:48:59,420 --> 00:49:05,700
even calling it the body anymore or my body i'm calling body i've radically changed my relationship

530
00:49:05,700 --> 00:49:12,420
with body after an ayahuasca experience how long ago one just one four how long ago was that uh

531
00:49:12,420 --> 00:49:19,900
december oh recently uh yeah is that the first time you've done it uh um no i've done i've done

532
00:49:19,900 --> 00:49:25,840
two sessions right but i mean that but the first time that you've had it's not like you did you've

533
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:30,240
done ayahuasca for 10 years on and off and suddenly this big thing happened it was like

534
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:43,540
this was this was the big time yes i have been living with this body for this lifetime now and

535
00:49:43,540 --> 00:49:57,400
i have been in disagreement with it a few times in what sense i have been mad at it angry with it

536
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:03,540
for not being able to perform as i wanted to perform in the gym for not being taller for not

537
00:50:03,540 --> 00:50:15,220
being younger for not being more handsome for not being stronger and then i got my butt kicked

538
00:50:15,220 --> 00:50:25,740
in a ceremony where i am okay so i might just uh tell you the story fair enough i love a good

539
00:50:25,740 --> 00:50:32,800
ayahuasca story yes yes yes so my kids do as well they're really young whenever we ended up the

540
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:38,900
other day talking at the dinner table about dmt and i pulled out rick straussman's book i've got

541
00:50:38,900 --> 00:50:43,160
do you know that of course the spirit molecule yes yes and i said no i'm just going to read you

542
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:48,660
some of because it's full of people's accounts of of what happens to them in a trip and because

543
00:50:48,660 --> 00:50:54,100
the interesting thing is they all met different entities and stuff which is just fascinating no

544
00:50:54,100 --> 00:50:59,080
matter whether they were a doctor or a hippie or a teacher or whatever everyone i think he said it

545
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:03,420
It was over 90 something percent of people came back having met an entity.

546
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:05,380
And my kids were fascinated by that.

547
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,580
And I could already see my middle daughter.

548
00:51:07,700 --> 00:51:11,140
My eldest daughter is too scared to take psychedelics.

549
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:11,660
Fair enough.

550
00:51:11,900 --> 00:51:12,740
I mean, they're 12.

551
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,020
I'm not saying they're going to do it now,

552
00:51:14,020 --> 00:51:19,000
but I could predict from what I know about my experiences that when she's older,

553
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:20,260
she might be a bit scared.

554
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:21,480
Quite rightly so.

555
00:51:21,540 --> 00:51:23,220
I think I'm probably in that point now.

556
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,840
I think I'm scared to take psychedelics now.

557
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:31,000
whereas my middle daughter she her eyes prick up she wants to know all about that she's very

558
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:36,440
analytical as well which doesn't normally help in those scenarios but she wants to know but wait

559
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:42,040
what you know she's like and i can see when she's older she's definitely gonna dip her toes in that

560
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:47,960
water because she's an absolute she's a traveler she's an explorer do you know what i mean yes yes

561
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:53,900
so yeah i love i do love a good a good who lose legitimate story don't don't hold back thank you

562
00:51:53,900 --> 00:52:00,860
so much there there are okay so your daughter she sounds like yeah like a like a traveler as opposed

563
00:52:00,860 --> 00:52:07,420
to a tourist uh at these um retreats there are always some tourists that don't know why did you

564
00:52:07,420 --> 00:52:14,820
do it uh i did in sweden and um i'm not going to disclose the exact location but it was this

565
00:52:14,820 --> 00:52:22,460
picture a 19th century building, like a 19th century library.

566
00:52:24,020 --> 00:52:26,020
Just fantastic architecture.

567
00:52:26,580 --> 00:52:30,460
And we had this huge fireplace made of stone.

568
00:52:32,740 --> 00:52:34,640
I just love the environment so much.

569
00:52:35,020 --> 00:52:36,840
Was it out in the countryside?

570
00:52:37,580 --> 00:52:38,320
Yes, yes, yes.

571
00:52:38,500 --> 00:52:40,960
Not in a nice place.

572
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:51,340
so we were about 10 12 people one shaman and three facilitators and then then the group

573
00:52:51,340 --> 00:53:01,340
and we had a theme we had a theme which was healing through light and this makes much more

574
00:53:01,340 --> 00:53:06,340
sense if you know what the metaphors stand for so there are two paths you can heal either either

575
00:53:06,340 --> 00:53:11,840
either through darkness or through light both are equally valid and most people will choose the

576
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:16,940
path of darkness which is yeah yeah and it's perfectly fine it sounds like this game no it's

577
00:53:16,940 --> 00:53:23,080
fine no it's it's actually the the the common one it's uh going to therapy taking your meds

578
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:28,260
seeing your friends going to the gym eating healthy getting sleep doing all these things

579
00:53:28,260 --> 00:53:37,680
Just holding the line against psychological illness or whatever it is you're struggling with.

580
00:53:38,020 --> 00:53:40,320
Just holding the line, doing what you're supposed to do.

581
00:53:41,020 --> 00:53:43,960
Takes time, works, if you do it right.

582
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:44,840
Can I ask you before you go on?

583
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,120
What was your intention when you went there?

584
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:48,980
You were saying that you had a relationship with your body.

585
00:53:49,500 --> 00:53:50,960
Presumably, you didn't know that.

586
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,200
No, I had no idea.

587
00:53:52,200 --> 00:54:00,240
I came in with the intention to find courage to go on a path of radical self-alignment.

588
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,020
That's what I thought I was doing there.

589
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:03,400
Radical self-alignment.

590
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:05,360
You better even explain what that means.

591
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:12,100
So that just means choosing a life that is authentic to your deepest values.

592
00:54:12,500 --> 00:54:13,140
Intentional.

593
00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:13,480
Yes.

594
00:54:13,580 --> 00:54:15,080
And that is super scary.

595
00:54:15,460 --> 00:54:20,580
It is, if you are awake to what it means, it is one of the scariest things you can do.

596
00:54:20,580 --> 00:54:27,480
that is about leaving it that is about actually breaking generational trauma it is about leaving

597
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:36,840
generations that have chosen security over over a life of excitement and doing something that

598
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:45,000
feels more authentic to you authenticity is one of the highest energies at which you can vibrate

599
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:50,440
Did you by any chance get into medicine for someone else's reasons?

600
00:54:51,180 --> 00:54:54,680
Parents, you know, society, you know what I mean?

601
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:55,700
No, not necessarily.

602
00:54:55,940 --> 00:55:00,260
I was nudged or rather somebody opened my eyes to it.

603
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:03,960
And I, I, but I went into it for the wrong reasons.

604
00:55:04,380 --> 00:55:09,220
I went into it for status, money, all of these things.

605
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,320
But then I discovered that this is actually a pretty cool profession.

606
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:18,880
you get to have real conversations with people conversations uh from the get-go you get to have

607
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:24,040
real conversations with people and that's an incredible privilege you get to talk about things

608
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,200
that really matter matter to people you get to connect with people for real and you get to help

609
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:36,760
them and when you see the value in that that's what makes the the the whole profession uh and

610
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:49,040
And so I see a lot of colleagues, especially younger ones, who treat patients like they're just something in their calendar that they need to get out of the way.

611
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:52,740
I was there as well.

612
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:54,780
Everybody is at some point.

613
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:58,720
But I had to radically shift my relationship to my patients.

614
00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:05,660
So now, whenever I have someone in front of me, I see my 10-year-old self, or I see my sister, or I see my brother, I see my mother.

615
00:56:05,660 --> 00:56:07,200
and they're ailing.

616
00:56:07,700 --> 00:56:21,920
And I love them for being a fellow human being And I connect with them because this is my 10 self How would I treat my 10 self And I do my best connect connect with them because this is my 10 year old self how would i treat my 10 year old self and i do my best to connect with them at a deep level is this on

617
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,720
account of the hosker or was that happening before no this is something i've learned through the

618
00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:32,440
profession uh over time to actually make it worthwhile to survive essentially so that that

619
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:42,200
just developed organically over time. But I wasn't going into the ayahuasca ceremony because

620
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:48,060
I was on a path of radical self-alignment. I still am, and it's still scary. What that means

621
00:56:48,060 --> 00:56:54,260
for me is that I believe that my primary archetype is not necessarily to be a healer,

622
00:56:54,260 --> 00:57:00,280
not to be a medicine man, but it is to be a philosopher, which means I believe that I can

623
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:07,600
do more benefit for the world through writing and arranging retreats and stuff like this.

624
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:17,540
But to do that, I have to break something that's been hard-coded into me through generations,

625
00:57:18,020 --> 00:57:27,500
which is to choose a life of comfort and security. And this is the job of your subconscious mind.

626
00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:36,260
your subconscious mind does not want you to achieve it doesn't want you to explore it doesn't

627
00:57:36,260 --> 00:57:42,740
want you to succeed it wants you to stay where you are because it recognizes that this place where

628
00:57:42,740 --> 00:57:47,640
you are now even if you have anxiety even if you're depressed it wants you to stay here because

629
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:54,060
right now we are alive and that's the only thing that counts is that though your subconscious or

630
00:57:54,060 --> 00:57:58,480
everyone's subconscious is i've never thought i've always felt my own subconscious is quite

631
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:04,780
positive and actually not not like that i mean we all have different algorithms we're all governed

632
00:58:04,780 --> 00:58:10,700
by different algorithms and we inherit most of them and so yeah there's certainly uh an aspect

633
00:58:10,700 --> 00:58:17,120
where we can say that uh our subconscious that uh that tries to put us in place is something that

634
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:24,560
comes from everybody and it's certainly a treat um a trait of our species that we want to stay put

635
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:30,780
where we are because this is where we survive and you have to overcome that and that has i know at

636
00:58:30,780 --> 00:58:38,580
least in my family has been hard-coded to stay in place and don't succeed because survival and i've

637
00:58:38,580 --> 00:58:44,420
also inherited uh defective monetary scripts like i have the idea that there can never be enough

638
00:58:44,420 --> 00:58:49,800
money and a lot of people have that one yeah it's a common one it's the most common defective

639
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:56,860
monetary script but it's still a defective one so so yeah um radical self-alignment i thought i was

640
00:58:56,860 --> 00:59:01,860
going in with this but this was not the case and i got to learn that throughout the ceremony so this

641
00:59:01,860 --> 00:59:09,320
was a four-day four-day retreat where we do a lot of exercises where we um try to heal through light

642
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:14,360
rather than darkness and darkness that was this you know the common path lightness is essentially

643
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:25,340
just being or just jumping into a pool of love essentially letting god's love wash over you

644
00:59:25,340 --> 00:59:33,300
and you you heal like that just instantly it's like shining a light on a shadow the shadow just

645
00:59:33,300 --> 00:59:38,540
goes away immediately but but you thought you thought this was going to happen before the

646
00:59:38,540 --> 00:59:44,440
experience or that's what happened no that's uh i i had no idea what we were doing in the in the

647
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:48,680
they said that this is the path we're going down no they showed us they didn't tell us they told

648
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:53,800
us that afterward that that's what we did we get we got to experience it first all right you did

649
00:59:53,800 --> 01:00:00,400
yeah so we did a lot of good description of it yes it was a terrific yeah no but i mean that kind

650
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,680
of yes it happened like that really yeah it happened like that and it happened like that

651
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:13,000
several times. That's the power of it as well. So we did a lot of exercises and we used medicine

652
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:17,760
to facilitate the exercises. Like we used peyote, for example, which, so there are four classic

653
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:25,520
psychedelics. There's LSD, DMT, psilocybin, and mescaline. And what makes them the classic

654
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:32,540
psychedelics is that they're all agonists on the 5-HT2A receptor, a subgroup of the serotonin

655
01:00:32,540 --> 01:00:41,980
receptor. So they have a mechanism of action in common. But what happens after they bind to the

656
01:00:41,980 --> 01:00:46,700
receptor, agonist being that they bind to the receptor and they activate it. What happens after

657
01:00:46,700 --> 01:00:51,860
that is just a biological cascade and we have no idea what happens. It's magic for all we know.

658
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:57,480
And they do it very differently because the effects of these medicines are very, very different.

659
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:05,680
so we used peyote for a few exercises this is mescaline the cactus uh cactus um by the way

660
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:14,440
one of the most the hardest uh medicines to consume i've ever encountered it's it really

661
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:20,900
does not want to be digested it makes you want to throw it goes into your mouth and it grows and

662
01:01:20,900 --> 01:01:26,040
whenever it approaches approaches your esophagus it just crawls out again it does not want to go

663
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:35,040
down your belly so that was fun that may be an evolutionary adaptation to only the special only

664
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:40,520
people who really want to take it should take it something like that something like that and it it

665
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:47,100
has a very masculine energy this one uh peyote masculine it is very guiding it's it holds you

666
01:01:47,100 --> 01:01:53,400
and it guides you so that was good for a few exercises um and then we did how long does peyote

667
01:01:53,400 --> 01:02:04,200
last when you take it uh very very long yeah it's an entire night yeah so and then we did um

668
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:10,000
i think it was on the third day so so when you do ayahuasca you do it several days in a row

669
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:17,520
because ayahuasca is um it is a brew made of uh capi banisteriopsis which is a vine and then

670
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:22,080
the succotria viridis, which is the leaf, chacruna it's also called.

671
01:02:23,060 --> 01:02:24,700
And you mix these two.

672
01:02:25,220 --> 01:02:31,520
So you get a DMT component and a MAOI, a monoamino oxidase inhibitor.

673
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:39,220
And the MAO enzyme, it breaks down the DMT.

674
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,600
So you need the inhibitor and you build up the concentrator of that inhibitor

675
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:44,900
so you don't break down the DMT.

676
01:02:44,900 --> 01:02:51,240
And DMT, there's no tolerance, and you just build up the levels over the days.

677
01:02:52,140 --> 01:02:55,340
So you're working up to something, so you just have to trust the process.

678
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:06,540
And I think it was on the third day where I had one of the strangest experiences of my life.

679
01:03:08,820 --> 01:03:10,240
There was four of us.

680
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:23,660
we we were going to do bufo what's that bufo alvarios is the sonoran desert toad oh you have

681
01:03:23,660 --> 01:03:29,540
to lick the back if you're a homer simpson you might do that right in real life what you do is

682
01:03:29,540 --> 01:03:33,720
scrape it off you crystallize it put it in a pipe

683
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:44,820
and so so this is the this is the strongest psychedelic known to science really yes stronger

684
01:03:44,820 --> 01:03:52,520
than dmt then much much much stronger really yeah so it is exactly is it even possible so

685
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:58,860
it is the dmt molecule it's called 5 me o dmt what that means is that you take the dmt molecule

686
01:03:58,860 --> 01:04:02,260
and you add a methyl group on carbon number five.

687
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:07,760
So for anybody who knows any bit of organic chemistry,

688
01:04:07,860 --> 01:04:12,140
you have a benzene ring in the DMT molecule.

689
01:04:12,300 --> 01:04:14,780
And on carbon number five, you add a methyl group, CH3,

690
01:04:14,940 --> 01:04:17,820
and that makes it much more fat-soluble,

691
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,100
which means it goes through the blood-brain barrier

692
01:04:21,100 --> 01:04:22,540
and binds to the receptor.

693
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:24,940
The brain is fat-soluble much faster.

694
01:04:25,540 --> 01:04:28,120
And does it last only a few minutes like DMT?

695
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:33,180
yeah but that doesn't matter yeah in the experience could be years yeah yeah it's forever

696
01:04:33,180 --> 01:04:42,160
time disappears so uh but in in in our time about 15 minutes or so um but that doesn't matter so a

697
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:50,180
good analogy between what ayahuasca and and and bufo is is that like in ayahuasca you you drink

698
01:04:50,180 --> 01:04:56,660
the brew and on the final light uh when you're reaching the highest concentrations you go down

699
01:04:56,660 --> 01:05:04,280
to you go towards a cliff and you peer into the abyss of your subconscious mind you peer into it

700
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:10,360
you peek over the cliff and then you back off that's that's what ayahuasca lets you do

701
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:16,840
bufo to chuck you over it kicks you in the back when you're on the edge and you have no way

702
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:24,600
you have no say dmt's a bit like that right yeah and this there's just no uh yeah you can't uh

703
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:28,240
You can't resist. There's just no way of resisting.

704
01:05:29,100 --> 01:05:31,800
So what you do is you take this pipe and they help you.

705
01:05:32,100 --> 01:05:42,460
They help you So you have the meditation round you have some lectures before you do some exercises so you get into the right set You have the set and setting

706
01:05:43,260 --> 01:05:48,540
And this is one of the most important lessons from the 60s, those set and setting, to prevent

707
01:05:48,540 --> 01:05:49,620
challenging trips.

708
01:05:49,620 --> 01:05:51,240
You need to have the proper setting.

709
01:05:51,700 --> 01:05:55,740
You need to be in a comfortable place with the right people and have the right lights

710
01:05:55,740 --> 01:05:57,880
and be comfortable in your body.

711
01:05:58,260 --> 01:06:02,340
Then you have to have the right set, the right mindset and the right intention going in.

712
01:06:02,500 --> 01:06:04,120
You have to know why you're doing this.

713
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,380
And then you have to have the right dose and the right administration form.

714
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:09,620
And that is smoking.

715
01:06:10,020 --> 01:06:11,900
And I mean, I trust them with the dose, of course.

716
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:15,000
So what you do is they come up to you.

717
01:06:15,140 --> 01:06:17,360
You do one person at a time, essentially.

718
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,420
Or rather, you start one person at a time.

719
01:06:20,940 --> 01:06:23,480
So they come up to you with the glass pipe.

720
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:25,320
They light it with like a blowtorch.

721
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,280
And they hold it to your lips.

722
01:06:29,420 --> 01:06:31,060
And then they tell you to inhale.

723
01:06:31,060 --> 01:06:33,960
and you inhale for 13 seconds.

724
01:06:34,660 --> 01:06:35,920
After three seconds,

725
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:39,440
it's the most intense psychedelic experience

726
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:40,100
you've ever had.

727
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:42,340
After about seven seconds,

728
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:44,720
you're in an entirely different dimension.

729
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,440
And then you still have another six seconds to go

730
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:49,960
if you can even do it.

731
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:51,220
And they help you.

732
01:06:52,020 --> 01:06:53,220
Well, holding it in.

733
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,460
Well, they like encourage you.

734
01:06:56,500 --> 01:06:57,640
They tell you to keep breathing.

735
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,000
You still like perceive what they're saying.

736
01:07:01,060 --> 01:07:07,040
And they tell you to keep inhaling, keep inhaling, just keeping you in that flow of inhaling.

737
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:10,380
And then they help you lie down.

738
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:22,780
So when it comes on very quickly, so I lie down and I just feel the world disappearing.

739
01:07:22,780 --> 01:07:24,420
I can no longer see anything.

740
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:30,780
I close my eyes and there's just an explosion in my vision.

741
01:07:31,060 --> 01:07:35,260
And I feel that I'm diving at the speed of light through fractals.

742
01:07:36,900 --> 01:07:39,660
And this is the transportation.

743
01:07:40,260 --> 01:07:43,960
And what can happen with ayahuasca is that you end up in what's called the waiting room,

744
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:46,800
where you get stuck between this world and the next.

745
01:07:47,340 --> 01:07:49,080
And that can be a very uncomfortable experience.

746
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:50,500
There's none of that with Bufo.

747
01:07:51,020 --> 01:07:53,160
You just go straight.

748
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:57,460
You catapult your soul into the center of the universe or something like this.

749
01:07:57,460 --> 01:08:08,220
and um yeah so i'm lying there and i'm feeling my body dissolve my body's just evaporating it just

750
01:08:08,220 --> 01:08:14,160
goes away and i can't move anymore and i feel like and then my memories start fading and i

751
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:19,660
no longer i don't remember my name i can still think i can still use language and i can think

752
01:08:19,660 --> 01:08:24,500
coherently which is kind of weird to me i'm lying there and like i'm having thoughts but i don't have

753
01:08:24,500 --> 01:08:30,680
a body. I don't have vision anymore. I don't really know who I am or what I am. I used to be

754
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:36,600
like something. I remembered that I thought that I used to be a human being, but I'm not really

755
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:42,600
sure what that is anymore. So it was a complete dissociation from everything known. And I was just

756
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:50,360
in this state of just awareness, essentially. And it was quite terrifying. It was beautiful and

757
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:51,620
terrifying at the same time.

758
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,860
And I was actually convinced I was dying at one point.

759
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:57,520
I was dying.

760
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:00,760
I was convinced of it.

761
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:01,740
I knew I was dying.

762
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:02,740
I felt I was dying.

763
01:09:04,220 --> 01:09:08,120
And I said to myself, okay, I don't even know what I took there.

764
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,680
This might have all been a suicide cult for all I know.

765
01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:12,220
So fine.

766
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:15,180
I'm just going to relax.

767
01:09:15,180 --> 01:09:16,400
I don't want to have panic.

768
01:09:16,780 --> 01:09:17,660
Have you got a family?

769
01:09:18,140 --> 01:09:18,920
I do have a family.

770
01:09:19,060 --> 01:09:19,440
You do?

771
01:09:19,440 --> 01:09:23,820
well i don't know where you were yes they do i don't have kids on my own but i have brothers and

772
01:09:23,820 --> 01:09:29,140
sisters i'm two no you don't have your own kids i don't have my own kids okay that would that would

773
01:09:29,140 --> 01:09:37,260
be there would be tension inside yes yes yes yes yes but i i just thought that ah okay so i'm dying

774
01:09:37,260 --> 01:09:42,800
i've had a good life if this is the end so be it i'm not gonna have a panic i want a beautiful death

775
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:48,520
i'm just gonna follow i'm just gonna relax into this there's nothing i can do anyway so i made my

776
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:56,980
peace with death at that very moment at the moment of death and then I died and

777
01:09:56,980 --> 01:10:04,360
that was that was it that was it it was just nothingness and everything at once

778
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:15,460
it was just no time and all time at the same time and then I was in in something

779
01:10:15,460 --> 01:10:23,440
else that I have very, I don't have the language for it. I don't even know what to say. I don't

780
01:10:23,440 --> 01:10:28,760
know how to describe it. I can't describe it visually because there wasn't really anything

781
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:36,040
visually. I can't describe a sensation because there weren't really any sensations. I can't

782
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:42,560
describe an emotion. I can't really describe a state of mind either because everything was

783
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:50,300
independent. Everything that went on in that place was independent of time, place, and body.

784
01:10:53,000 --> 01:11:00,440
And I think that was source. I think that is where we all come from and where we're going back to.

785
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:08,900
And I don't care if that's true or not, really. It doesn't change how I live my life.

786
01:11:08,900 --> 01:11:18,680
and i i know that there is no scientific instrument to peer beyond the veil of reality

787
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:24,180
that would get us closer to what that thing is

788
01:11:24,180 --> 01:11:36,240
but it keeps my life i like to have that framework that we are sort of i like gun to my head i don't

789
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:44,720
believe this. I'm trained differently. I am a human being here. But I do entertain the idea

790
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:49,760
that we are spirits that have come here. I don't know if it's by our own volition,

791
01:11:50,180 --> 01:11:55,560
or if we're just something that happens in the evolution of the spirit world. It's just,

792
01:11:55,560 --> 01:12:02,320
we go here sometimes to learn lessons or whatever, if this is an experiment or... I don't know what

793
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:09,600
this is, but I'm fairly certain that I am you and you are me. We are all the exact same. We are

794
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:19,920
waves of the same ocean. We are probabilistic creatures that have spontaneously come about

795
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:31,480
in a very slow process that works on a timescale that is vastly different from the fluctuations of

796
01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:37,880
the quantum field that lets particles arise and disappear out of the universe.

797
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:49,020
We have sort of spontaneously come about in this field of reality in much the same way

798
01:12:49,020 --> 01:12:54,420
that particles arise spontaneously out of the quantum field, but on a much, much longer

799
01:12:54,420 --> 01:12:56,360
timescale to us.

800
01:12:57,060 --> 01:12:58,040
It's all relative.

801
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:04,560
so yeah that that was my boof experience that that did not change my relationship with body

802
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:11,540
body was a different experience i was going to say that would i know i hear what you're saying about

803
01:13:11,540 --> 01:13:19,180
you you know you don't even know whether it's real or not i've had a lot of experiences i've

804
01:13:19,180 --> 01:13:24,260
had a lot of experiences with hallucinogens and psychedelics but i've also had a lot of

805
01:13:24,260 --> 01:13:30,860
experiences with i lived in indonesia for nearly two years with a teacher who taught meditation and

806
01:13:30,860 --> 01:13:38,400
i had more weirder and wacky experiences there than than i did with with psychedelics because

807
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:43,240
they're more obvious with psychedelics that they don't seem as real almost and they're also

808
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:51,240
i i didn't do them in those kind of scenarios as much when you do if you work with a teacher you

809
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:56,720
of a spiritual teacher you're you're very much in the zone of okay this is something i'm doing it's

810
01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:01,280
not like you're taking some acid or doing this or the other or and you have a different experience

811
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:07,060
um and i can understand because i haven't done anything like that for a number of years now

812
01:14:07,060 --> 01:14:11,920
and when i look back it could all have been neurons firing off in my brain for all i know

813
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:16,960
i don't really know in retrospect it could seem like it but i've got no way of proving or

814
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:22,020
disproving it right what i do know is though for example i've had a death experience i've died

815
01:14:22,020 --> 01:14:30,440
i've actually died without any drugs or anything i died lying on my bed at home once and it was

816
01:14:30,440 --> 01:14:36,060
that what i i've told i'm pretty sure i've told this experience once on this podcast before but

817
01:14:36,060 --> 01:14:42,540
long and short of it was i was ill when i was younger not that young i was in my 20s and i

818
01:14:42,540 --> 01:14:48,340
didn't even really have a bad illness I was very hot and obviously I was hallucinating quite a bit

819
01:14:48,340 --> 01:14:53,960
and you know I was just lying on bed on my own and I started to as you described I just started to die

820
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:58,780
and I knew I was dying I just knew it it wasn't something that there wasn't anything to point at

821
01:14:58,780 --> 01:14:59,980
it was just oh

822
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:05,860
is familiar this is me dying and as i started dying it was very natural and i thought and i

823
01:15:05,860 --> 01:15:12,160
just went with it lying on my bed and then at one point my my mind kicked in and said you can't die

824
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:16,820
your mother is downstairs she's going to walk into a bedroom and find a dead son on the bed this is

825
01:15:16,820 --> 01:15:22,780
ridiculous and it kind of snapped me out of it but in the meantime i'd already had the experience

826
01:15:22,780 --> 01:15:28,380
and the experience taught me that death wasn't anything number one to be scared of death was

827
01:15:28,380 --> 01:15:34,340
actually the same as birth right there was no difference between them it was a movement it's a

828
01:15:34,340 --> 01:15:40,760
movement right okay next chapter right but but but a death from this life is a birth is a but is it

829
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:45,920
the same time it's a birth into something else so yes they're the same thing and that has i have

830
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:52,480
carried with me that that's always been around i'm i've ever since i've been much more content with

831
01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:57,660
the idea that one day i may need to leave my children for example on this planet on their own

832
01:15:57,660 --> 01:16:05,640
without me and that's that's cool because i i death is there's this is a process and and um but

833
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:12,180
as far as all the other stuff you know i've had a lot of crazy weird meeting beings and all this

834
01:16:12,180 --> 01:16:18,620
kind of stuff without this is without a listener gems that stuff when i look back would be very

835
01:16:18,620 --> 01:16:23,980
easy to say yeah it's not really real you wanted to hit you wanted to experience that you wanted to

836
01:16:23,980 --> 01:16:27,760
know that they were like you know so you had a good story to tell or something so

837
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:34,400
and in a way it wasn't as profound on my life other than this the one thing which

838
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:41,580
really taught me that that death is a very normal process that's very familiar and that's absolutely

839
01:16:41,580 --> 01:16:47,560
fine so you see the pathology of modern society our relationship to death is a pathology well we

840
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:55,100
we we're trying to put it off continuously for sure yes tim are you are you afraid of that

841
01:16:55,100 --> 01:17:01,380
i don't think so but you'd have to put me in front of i'm almost certain that if i was

842
01:17:01,380 --> 01:17:07,000
at the face of death i'd have absolutely no problem at all right what i'm what i might be

843
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:13,840
afraid of is pain right and and and leaving my children which are when you have children you

844
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:17,960
realize that there would be nothing more emotionally painful than having to say goodbye

845
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:27,700
to your own children really i i can't put any more gravitas on any pain emotional pain either them

846
01:17:27,700 --> 01:17:31,740
dying or you dying but in a way you dying is even worse especially when they're young as they get

847
01:17:31,740 --> 01:17:38,400
older it might be different but when they're young there is no higher in my estimation there's no

848
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:44,780
higher duty in my life than providing and protecting and guiding them so leaving them

849
01:17:44,780 --> 01:17:52,700
would be horrendous and and and i would know that they would they would hate that as well

850
01:17:52,700 --> 01:17:57,500
you know like when you're older you can you can think about death and you can when you're like

851
01:17:57,500 --> 01:18:02,160
you know there's no kid in the history of the world at 12 whose father died said oh well he had

852
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:08,380
a good life they're not they just want their dad back and knowing that is excruciating pain if

853
01:18:08,380 --> 01:18:13,880
you're if you're a grown up but then when your mother dies at age 85 or whatever you're like

854
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:18,500
she had a brilliant life i can't fault her it's sad that she's gone but she had an amazing life

855
01:18:18,500 --> 01:18:26,920
stuff like that so so i'm not afraid of dying but i am afraid of what might have some experiences

856
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:32,880
around it i think because my wife currently she she she spent a bit of time as a nurse for a while

857
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:37,480
uh currently she's not but but back in her history she was for a few years she was a nurse and

858
01:18:37,480 --> 01:18:41,560
she may she was the one that brought to my attention that most people die in pain

859
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:47,800
most people i actually when you look at the grand scheme of things if you die peacefully in your bed

860
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:52,640
you're you're you're you're kind of like you're lucky and i'd never thought that before i'd always

861
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:57,860
imagined that my passing will be a monumental experience of goodbye everyone it's been nice

862
01:18:57,860 --> 01:19:05,460
yeah it can be but but you can orchestrate that yeah it can be yeah i mean i think you can you

863
01:19:05,460 --> 01:19:10,860
can even take hallucinogens to try and do it absolutely so so the question about if you're

864
01:19:10,860 --> 01:19:15,480
afraid of death it should add that's actually several questions and you nail it because it's

865
01:19:15,480 --> 01:19:22,960
it's a part it's about it's about the process of dying which I think can be associated with a lot

866
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:27,060
of pain and anxiety then there's the moment of death where we actually face death and I think

867
01:19:27,060 --> 01:19:34,740
that's a beautiful moment and then there's the full mo of missing saying goodbye to body saying

868
01:19:34,740 --> 01:19:42,400
goodbye to family, saying goodbye to human life, to the human experience. We have, as a primary

869
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:50,820
care physician, I do a lot of palliative care as well. So I see quite a lot of deaths. And just

870
01:19:50,820 --> 01:20:03,500
before this conference, I had a guy born in 92, so a young guy with a brain tumor. And

871
01:20:03,500 --> 01:20:09,560
And it's just a horrible, horrible, tragic story.

872
01:20:10,020 --> 01:20:11,440
Had a big family.

873
01:20:13,140 --> 01:20:17,120
And we have very good technology to deal with pain,

874
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:23,000
with constipation, with retention of fluids,

875
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:26,360
with breathing, and even anxiety.

876
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:37,360
but we don't use technology for the existential crisis or questions what does it mean to leave

877
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:43,960
body what does it mean to leave the human experience we have the technology and it's

878
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:51,640
called psilocybin but we're not using it right now but we are about to we are that that's part

879
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,560
of the third paradigm of medicine.

880
01:20:55,580 --> 01:20:59,220
Introducing these ancient medicines

881
01:20:59,220 --> 01:21:02,640
and going back to that

882
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:06,500
is going to radically transform palliative care.

883
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:09,580
Can I ask you a quick question?

884
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:10,460
As a doctor,

885
01:21:10,540 --> 01:21:12,320
and I think you're probably going to know the answer to this.

886
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,660
This is just one of those things I've known for a long time,

887
01:21:15,660 --> 01:21:17,400
but I don't think I've ever checked

888
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:19,480
to see whether it's true or not.

889
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:20,500
Maybe you would know.

890
01:21:20,500 --> 01:21:28,300
Is it true that when you die, your body is flooded with DMT naturally from your own brain or whatever?

891
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:30,260
Yes, yes, yes.

892
01:21:32,060 --> 01:21:34,840
Flooded would maybe paint the wrong picture.

893
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:44,260
But yes, you will have a fairly large dose of DMT from your lungs and brains.

894
01:21:44,820 --> 01:21:46,920
Same as when you're born as well, is it?

895
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:54,460
or is it yeah uh there are um it comes when you're born and when you die because that makes

896
01:21:54,460 --> 01:22:00,700
i mean without sounding too crass that seems completely obvious that that is how that's the

897
01:22:00,700 --> 01:22:04,640
vehicle that that carries you from one place to the other i mean it's a circular composition i

898
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:09,800
mean it doesn't but but that seems too obvious well it's also can it really be that that there's

899
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:14,800
this drug that you can take in real life you can smoke it and it projects you off to another

900
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:21,600
dimension and then that same drug created in your own body twice when you're born and when you die

901
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:26,320
which is the time when you travel from here to there or whatever you know yeah it's it's uh it's

902
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:31,300
almost poetic it's not even poetic it's too obvious it should be more it should be more

903
01:22:31,300 --> 01:22:36,440
esoteric than that shouldn't it really isn't death mysterious and stuff it's like no there's

904
01:22:36,440 --> 01:22:40,780
this drug and you inject it and it takes you to the next place that you need to go it's like

905
01:22:40,780 --> 01:22:47,260
getting on a bus we don't know the purpose of it like physiologically why why that is um we can we

906
01:22:47,260 --> 01:22:53,580
can of course argue that there are spiritual reasons for this happening but why we know that

907
01:22:53,580 --> 01:22:58,840
the birth is also associated with the highest level of adrenaline that you'll experience

908
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:04,360
in your entire life you'll never never or the baby the baby is that right yeah you will never

909
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:09,120
have more adrenaline in your body than when you're being born i've watched all my kids come out and

910
01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:11,120
they do look pretty mental and they come out and they're like,

911
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:11,680
Oh my God,

912
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:14,420
what the hell's going on?

913
01:23:14,440 --> 01:23:15,160
It was really nice.

914
01:23:15,380 --> 01:23:16,280
You're coming into the world.

915
01:23:16,540 --> 01:23:16,700
Yeah.

916
01:23:16,900 --> 01:23:17,600
Not a nice,

917
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:18,400
I never,

918
01:23:18,480 --> 01:23:20,220
they don't come in with a big smile on their face.

919
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:22,220
And if they do,

920
01:23:22,300 --> 01:23:24,040
they get a smack immediately from the nurse.

921
01:23:24,500 --> 01:23:24,860
Exactly.

922
01:23:26,060 --> 01:23:26,920
Scream and cry.

923
01:23:29,540 --> 01:23:29,940
Yeah.

924
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:30,380
Yeah.

925
01:23:30,440 --> 01:23:30,620
Yeah.

926
01:23:31,180 --> 01:23:31,500
So,

927
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:31,900
um,

928
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:32,920
yeah,

929
01:23:32,980 --> 01:23:33,760
but the,

930
01:23:33,900 --> 01:23:34,080
the,

931
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:34,520
uh,

932
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:35,960
can I tell you about the ayahuasca experience?

933
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:36,180
Yeah.

934
01:23:36,180 --> 01:23:36,360
Yeah.

935
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:36,720
I thought,

936
01:23:36,820 --> 01:23:37,620
I thought that was it.

937
01:23:37,700 --> 01:23:38,840
But so you did,

938
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:40,800
You did peyote, then bufo.

939
01:23:40,940 --> 01:23:41,220
Yes.

940
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:44,940
And now you're moving on to ayahuasca, which is a strange order to do.

941
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:46,340
Oh, you do that as well?

942
01:23:46,420 --> 01:23:47,360
You do ayahuasca every day.

943
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:49,900
They really wanted to fry your mind, didn't they?

944
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,120
At that particular point, there's no holding back.

945
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:55,560
You are preparing body and mind for the real experience.

946
01:23:55,660 --> 01:23:56,620
You're working up to stuff.

947
01:23:56,700 --> 01:24:00,060
So they would consider that the ayahuasca is the big one?

948
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:03,160
Well, it's not really about the medicine.

949
01:24:03,540 --> 01:24:06,260
It's about the experiences you create with the medicine.

950
01:24:06,260 --> 01:24:22,762
I also did you po I think it called which is a you have like a long pipe that they put to your nostril We have a high dose of Exactly It blows it They blow into your Yeah they essentially blow hell into your brain

951
01:24:22,942 --> 01:24:23,182
Yeah.

952
01:24:23,402 --> 01:24:26,882
And everything goes on fire and then you're just relaxed.

953
01:24:27,942 --> 01:24:29,302
I got...

954
01:24:29,302 --> 01:24:31,402
There's DMT in that and there's tobacco

955
01:24:31,402 --> 01:24:34,502
and probably a few other things for a good measure.

956
01:24:35,522 --> 01:24:37,522
And what that did was,

957
01:24:37,522 --> 01:24:43,542
it sort of like downloaded the language of ayahuasca so i knew what i was looking for in the

958
01:24:43,542 --> 01:24:49,562
actual experience later so when people do ayahuasca straight to ayahuasca do you think that they're

959
01:24:49,562 --> 01:24:56,382
missing a trick not necessarily depends on the dose uh if you work with lower doses you are going

960
01:24:56,382 --> 01:25:01,182
to be the one who has to do the work but you might need to understand the language of ayahuasca

961
01:25:01,182 --> 01:25:05,382
to actually tap into the experience what is the language of ayahuasca exactly who knows

962
01:25:05,382 --> 01:25:13,202
what i mean what i mean by that is it's like with any any uh like we call it drugs that's very

963
01:25:13,202 --> 01:25:20,682
offensive to uh to a shaman or curandero because these things uh like peyote is it's a holy like

964
01:25:20,682 --> 01:25:30,302
aspirin is a drug peyote is sacred so when you use these medicines uh or when you use i don't know

965
01:25:30,302 --> 01:25:37,142
weed, for example, when it's the first time, you might not know what the experience is supposed to

966
01:25:37,142 --> 01:25:46,762
be. So you don't really know what to even look for. So if you have a fairly small dose, but clearly

967
01:25:46,762 --> 01:25:54,662
effective, even to somebody who has tolerance, you might be so oblivious to the experience because

968
01:25:54,662 --> 01:25:59,362
you don't have the language of what the experience is. But once you have had it a few times, you know

969
01:25:59,362 --> 01:26:04,302
exactly what to expect and you go there immediately it must be quite subtle at that point though i mean

970
01:26:04,302 --> 01:26:09,142
all hallucinogens i've ever taken it was indisputable that something was happening

971
01:26:09,142 --> 01:26:15,722
yeah exactly and if you add on top of that uh like the language of the experience you know you know

972
01:26:15,722 --> 01:26:21,942
how to you know what to look for you know what you're going into you know the space you're

973
01:26:21,942 --> 01:26:28,222
entering and that sort of aids you through the it helps you through the process so you don't have

974
01:26:28,222 --> 01:26:32,902
to discover it it's kind of like you're taking a math test are you gonna have to are you gonna

975
01:26:32,902 --> 01:26:37,102
try to figure out all the equations before you write the test or are you gonna know them

976
01:26:37,102 --> 01:26:46,102
beforehand it just helps you with the experience um so yeah so on on my final this was on my final

977
01:26:46,102 --> 01:26:52,182
night the fourth night you must have been absolutely wrecked i had no sleep for for a week

978
01:26:52,182 --> 01:26:53,302
Just imagine it.

979
01:26:54,462 --> 01:26:56,602
What were these four people?

980
01:26:56,662 --> 01:26:57,062
How many was it?

981
01:26:57,122 --> 01:26:57,622
Four of you?

982
01:26:58,042 --> 01:26:59,882
Just walking around like zombies around this house.

983
01:26:59,882 --> 01:27:02,262
We were 12 people doing the retreat.

984
01:27:02,502 --> 01:27:03,802
We were four people doing the bufo.

985
01:27:04,402 --> 01:27:06,382
So some of them didn't do the full show?

986
01:27:06,382 --> 01:27:07,862
No, no, everybody didn't.

987
01:27:08,102 --> 01:27:09,822
There were a few things that I didn't do as well.

988
01:27:10,362 --> 01:27:10,762
Really?

989
01:27:10,862 --> 01:27:11,402
There was more?

990
01:27:11,682 --> 01:27:12,262
Yeah, there were more.

991
01:27:12,262 --> 01:27:14,102
How many more allusogenic drugs exist?

992
01:27:14,762 --> 01:27:17,002
I keep forgetting what it's called.

993
01:27:17,522 --> 01:27:20,602
It's this chemical burn you do on your shoulder.

994
01:27:20,602 --> 01:27:21,782
It leaves a scar.

995
01:27:22,182 --> 01:27:30,622
and you just i've i've in africa once but it wasn't for that purpose i i had my skin burnt

996
01:27:30,622 --> 01:27:37,202
with a with a plant but it was it was for a tattoo the tattoo lasted about six months

997
01:27:37,202 --> 01:27:43,782
but it didn't give me a this gives you three dots and it's it's it's it's gonna stay with you

998
01:27:43,782 --> 01:27:48,262
and the dots or the the experience did the dots probably experience as well

999
01:27:48,262 --> 01:27:53,142
so you get a full-on experience with it you get a full-on experience it's mostly it's very somatic

1000
01:27:53,142 --> 01:27:57,982
it's very bodily you you throw up a lot you start shaking you start crying you start screaming

1001
01:27:57,982 --> 01:28:07,202
did no no no what's it called i can't remember what it's called whatever so yeah on on the fourth

1002
01:28:07,202 --> 01:28:13,162
night we had we had the fire going we had the facilitators uh playing rhythmic instruments

1003
01:28:13,162 --> 01:28:20,362
and music it was just a beautiful experience and I just are a very different energy coming into that

1004
01:28:20,362 --> 01:28:26,042
experience than I had from the other ones I felt intensely present and just talking about this right

1005
01:28:26,042 --> 01:28:32,922
now makes me enter that space I feel very present with you now Tim I'm it's almost like a light

1006
01:28:32,922 --> 01:28:39,282
psychedelic psychedelic experience I'm having right now and it's it's a wonderful sensation

1007
01:28:39,282 --> 01:28:50,442
these lights don't help but i mean just um off the record thank you for this experience i'm having

1008
01:28:50,442 --> 01:28:56,462
such a wonderful time connecting with another human being a great awake human being this uh

1009
01:28:56,462 --> 01:29:01,162
this means a lot to me and i love you for it uh this is a this is a beautiful beautiful moment

1010
01:29:01,162 --> 01:29:10,622
and I'm very appreciative of what you are creating right here yeah so the that ayahuasca experience

1011
01:29:10,622 --> 01:29:17,722
on the fourth night I I'm I'm closest to the fire and I'm just relying on it for rhythm and I'm

1012
01:29:17,722 --> 01:29:26,762
listening to their rhythm and then we and this um woman comes up to me it's it's my turn and

1013
01:29:26,762 --> 01:29:30,362
And she offers me the cup and I drink.

1014
01:29:31,162 --> 01:29:34,742
And we're doing a double dose on the fourth night.

1015
01:29:34,862 --> 01:29:36,522
Or I'm doing the double dose.

1016
01:29:38,322 --> 01:29:40,522
And I lie down.

1017
01:29:40,942 --> 01:29:42,782
And it takes some time to come on.

1018
01:29:43,102 --> 01:29:45,842
But you're still lingering from all the other stuff you've been doing.

1019
01:29:46,102 --> 01:29:48,282
It still lingers in your system.

1020
01:29:49,402 --> 01:29:52,262
So I lie down.

1021
01:29:52,262 --> 01:29:56,882
I put on my eye mask and just lie in the darkness,

1022
01:29:57,382 --> 01:29:58,862
and it just feels so expansive.

1023
01:30:00,142 --> 01:30:03,222
Expansive is the best word I can find for it.

1024
01:30:03,542 --> 01:30:06,242
It feels like you're not really in your body.

1025
01:30:06,582 --> 01:30:07,882
There is no pain anywhere.

1026
01:30:08,422 --> 01:30:11,662
Your body is just with you somehow.

1027
01:30:13,142 --> 01:30:17,202
But it's not like governing the experience

1028
01:30:17,202 --> 01:30:19,242
as it tends to do in our day-to-day life.

1029
01:30:19,242 --> 01:30:30,742
and here you feel like you're in this cosmos and you just have pulses through it which is

1030
01:30:30,742 --> 01:30:41,682
the i i feel like i felt like my my skin was the edges of the universe and there was an entire

1031
01:30:41,682 --> 01:30:46,282
universe inside of me and then i had everything outside of me a completely different universe

1032
01:30:46,282 --> 01:30:51,482
that was poking into mine and they were interacting and i was just looking at this

1033
01:30:51,482 --> 01:30:57,462
with the vertigo feeling just the immensity of of space and time

1034
01:30:57,462 --> 01:31:07,942
and and then my body dissolved and my body a body was this is this membrane between two infinities

1035
01:31:07,942 --> 01:31:15,962
you have an infinity going inwards there's an infinity out in space space just goes on forever

1036
01:31:15,962 --> 01:31:21,282
we don't know what happens it just seems to go on forever for all we know space is eternal it's

1037
01:31:21,282 --> 01:31:26,942
infinite in space something the human mind can't comprehend it can just be baffled by it by it

1038
01:31:26,942 --> 01:31:36,722
there's an equal equally big infinity inwards and your body stands in the center of that

1039
01:31:36,722 --> 01:31:43,422
as a membrane and that's that's a scary place to be separating these two infinities

1040
01:31:43,422 --> 01:31:49,302
and so when that infinity that when that membrane starts to dissolve and these two infinities merge

1041
01:31:49,302 --> 01:31:57,682
that's like that's like jumping out of a cliff or something um but but i i at this point i was in the

1042
01:31:57,682 --> 01:32:02,562
in the presence of the spirit of ayahuasca a very feminine energy you can almost call it like a woman

1043
01:32:02,562 --> 01:32:10,622
um and it's just pure love and you feel safe you feel taken care of

1044
01:32:10,622 --> 01:32:21,742
so uh when i'm in her presence i ask her what are we doing today and she says nothing i was like oh

1045
01:32:21,742 --> 01:32:26,702
okay do i have anything more to purge because the purging in ayahuasca for those who don't know it's

1046
01:32:26,702 --> 01:32:32,222
it's a very it's a very important part of the actual ceremony where you where you vomit it's

1047
01:32:32,222 --> 01:32:37,842
it's an anchor to the physical world and to body,

1048
01:32:38,262 --> 01:32:43,642
where you anchor the sensation of cleansing your body,

1049
01:32:43,742 --> 01:32:44,802
your mind, your soul,

1050
01:32:45,722 --> 01:32:47,702
and you anchor that cleansing part

1051
01:32:47,702 --> 01:32:51,162
by getting rid of something from your body.

1052
01:32:51,162 --> 01:32:55,082
It's not that the actual just puking cleans your body.

1053
01:32:55,442 --> 01:32:56,682
It doesn't in that case.

1054
01:32:56,822 --> 01:32:58,842
You're not carrying poisons

1055
01:32:58,842 --> 01:33:00,422
within your gastrointestinal tract.

1056
01:33:00,622 --> 01:33:01,822
That's not what's happening.

1057
01:33:02,222 --> 01:33:08,722
But what's happening is that you're anchoring a spiritual experience of cleansing with a physical one.

1058
01:33:09,182 --> 01:33:10,102
So it's just an anchor.

1059
01:33:10,902 --> 01:33:12,542
And it's an important one.

1060
01:33:13,262 --> 01:33:16,402
But she said, no, there's nothing to purge now.

1061
01:33:17,062 --> 01:33:19,142
Okay, so what are we working on?

1062
01:33:19,622 --> 01:33:21,082
And she said, nothing.

1063
01:33:21,742 --> 01:33:22,462
You've done enough.

1064
01:33:23,322 --> 01:33:37,824
What you need to do is just you don need to do anything We can just be here and relax and appreciate what we have the time we have together And that when the tears started coming

1065
01:33:37,824 --> 01:33:39,284
because I realized that this is,

1066
01:33:40,084 --> 01:33:41,404
I'm not going to see her for a while.

1067
01:33:42,164 --> 01:33:44,524
And for a lack of a better word,

1068
01:33:45,084 --> 01:33:47,364
she's a God and she's my best friend.

1069
01:33:47,864 --> 01:33:50,564
And she's everything I've missed in life.

1070
01:33:50,984 --> 01:33:52,404
She's the love I never had.

1071
01:33:52,404 --> 01:33:56,564
She is the lack of pain in my chest.

1072
01:33:57,464 --> 01:34:01,524
She is the comfort I never thought I could have.

1073
01:34:04,284 --> 01:34:06,864
And she's about to go.

1074
01:34:09,684 --> 01:34:14,924
So we're floating together in eternity and infinity.

1075
01:34:16,664 --> 01:34:18,884
And then she starts fading.

1076
01:34:18,884 --> 01:34:24,744
and I realized that I'm coming back to a life

1077
01:34:24,744 --> 01:34:28,444
that I don't even know what it is anymore.

1078
01:34:31,624 --> 01:34:34,764
Well, and yeah, and about body in this experience

1079
01:34:34,764 --> 01:34:38,284
when we talked about purging and so on,

1080
01:34:38,764 --> 01:34:42,884
that's when she showed me that

1081
01:34:42,884 --> 01:34:52,764
there's no there's no reason to punish body and that is not going to make anything better

1082
01:34:52,764 --> 01:35:01,384
in fact body gives you the human experience it gives you the human experience there's no

1083
01:35:01,384 --> 01:35:07,704
greater gift you can possibly receive and body gives me the human experience

1084
01:35:07,704 --> 01:35:11,264
and I've been mad at it for not being taller.

1085
01:35:12,144 --> 01:35:13,464
What the shit is that?

1086
01:35:15,164 --> 01:35:16,264
That's insane.

1087
01:35:16,964 --> 01:35:19,264
Body gives me the human experience

1088
01:35:19,264 --> 01:35:21,304
and I'm angry with it

1089
01:35:21,304 --> 01:35:23,844
for not being able to lift heavier in the gym.

1090
01:35:24,844 --> 01:35:25,324
Why?

1091
01:35:26,124 --> 01:35:27,904
It makes no sense.

1092
01:35:29,044 --> 01:35:31,844
So after that, I have incorporated

1093
01:35:31,844 --> 01:35:35,504
not just like a routine,

1094
01:35:35,624 --> 01:35:37,384
but more like a relationship with body

1095
01:35:37,384 --> 01:35:43,324
change my relationship with body where i talk to body where i take care of it where i caress it

1096
01:35:43,324 --> 01:35:54,704
and i listen to it first and first of all i i've learned i'm trying to learn the language of body

1097
01:35:54,704 --> 01:36:01,524
and much deeper than i ever have before so what we modern human beings do we live in our heads

1098
01:36:01,524 --> 01:36:13,684
we think. But body doesn't talk with thoughts. It talks with emotions. And body speaks much slower

1099
01:36:13,684 --> 01:36:23,224
than cognition. So the interface we have between head and body is not optimal because we have

1100
01:36:23,224 --> 01:36:28,044
ruined it as modern human beings, because we have moved into our heads and away from body.

1101
01:36:28,044 --> 01:36:35,704
so i try to spend as much time in body as possible and just see the emotions what we do today is that

1102
01:36:35,704 --> 01:36:42,504
we put words on the emotions to intellectualize them and that helps uh in a way because you can

1103
01:36:42,504 --> 01:36:50,384
sort of increase the panorama um or the spectrum of emotions that you understand cognitively

1104
01:36:50,384 --> 01:36:57,364
intellectually and life is not about just having uh great experiences and good feelings

1105
01:36:57,364 --> 01:37:06,564
a rich life is one that is has a breath and depth you want as much as many emotions and

1106
01:37:06,564 --> 01:37:10,144
experiences as possible and you want to have them as deeply as possible

1107
01:37:10,144 --> 01:37:18,164
panic attacks and anxiety fucking sucks and i've had my fair share of it

1108
01:37:18,164 --> 01:37:26,684
and but i'm grateful for it because there are lessons in it and they have made my life richer

1109
01:37:26,684 --> 01:37:33,024
I don't want a monoculture of just happiness and joy or love or peace.

1110
01:37:33,144 --> 01:37:36,244
I want an entire spectrum.

1111
01:37:36,804 --> 01:37:42,544
And I love the entire spectrum of the human experience after I changed my relationship with body.

1112
01:37:42,724 --> 01:37:46,964
Because it's all about the body conversing with you.

1113
01:37:47,364 --> 01:37:49,504
It's all about messages.

1114
01:37:49,904 --> 01:37:52,064
So I invite every emotion in.

1115
01:37:52,064 --> 01:37:58,344
I sit with it, I listen to it, and I respond to it in the way that I feel that my soul and body

1116
01:37:58,344 --> 01:38:05,824
deserves and needs. I'm not intellectualizing it anymore, and I'm not punishing it. I'm staying

1117
01:38:05,824 --> 01:38:13,364
with it. So whenever body feels panic or anxiety, I tell my body emotionally and intellectually

1118
01:38:13,364 --> 01:38:19,764
and with my voice, I'm with you, I'm staying with you. I'm not going to flee into my head like I

1119
01:38:19,764 --> 01:38:25,924
always had. I'm not going to bury myself in productivity or work. I'm with you. We take the

1120
01:38:25,924 --> 01:38:32,684
time that we need. We are safe and I'm going to show it to you. Here, have some calories. Let's

1121
01:38:32,684 --> 01:38:39,224
move. I know you like that. Let's do this on your terms. I'm with you. We are healing together.

1122
01:38:39,224 --> 01:38:44,284
We're just thawing the traumas that we have stored in our nervous system.

1123
01:38:44,284 --> 01:38:48,044
and having this relationship with body

1124
01:38:48,044 --> 01:38:52,744
has just radically transformed who I am as a human being

1125
01:38:52,744 --> 01:38:54,224
how I do life

1126
01:38:54,224 --> 01:39:00,864
it makes me a man that is comfortable in his own skin

1127
01:39:00,864 --> 01:39:05,884
it has made me into a person who knows where he's going with clarity

1128
01:39:05,884 --> 01:39:07,804
and has fun going there

1129
01:39:07,804 --> 01:39:13,664
instead of being a person that is anxious for not achieving the goals

1130
01:39:13,664 --> 01:39:15,764
he thought would make him happy.

1131
01:39:16,284 --> 01:39:17,604
That is just an illusion anyway.

1132
01:39:20,084 --> 01:39:24,284
It's interesting because something I spoke about earlier,

1133
01:39:24,384 --> 01:39:28,784
which was my experiences in Indonesia when I used to live there,

1134
01:39:28,864 --> 01:39:32,304
I lived with, for want of a better word, a Buddhist teacher,

1135
01:39:32,524 --> 01:39:35,164
and we meditated every day for over a year and a half.

1136
01:39:35,724 --> 01:39:39,824
And I can recount the same experiences as you,

1137
01:39:39,824 --> 01:39:49,804
even the what you called the um ayahuasca in java she's called nyaloro kidul and she's the

1138
01:39:49,804 --> 01:39:57,384
queen of the south seas and i said farewell to her one night with tears streaming down my my face

1139
01:39:57,384 --> 01:40:06,804
and um his we took for one and a half years he taught me to be in my body that was that was the

1140
01:40:06,804 --> 01:40:14,284
whole point of the whole thing we we meditated we would let go of of everything really and

1141
01:40:14,284 --> 01:40:19,324
the way you did that was through your body and the my biggest takeaway from that whole period

1142
01:40:19,324 --> 01:40:26,124
of my life which i still do now is whenever i actually remember because often the modern world

1143
01:40:26,124 --> 01:40:31,824
keeps you locked in here yes so much but whenever i remember or whenever it just comes naturally

1144
01:40:31,824 --> 01:40:38,084
all i have to do is fill my body and i'm cool everything's cool i'm relaxed it's the part of

1145
01:40:38,084 --> 01:40:43,804
the relaxation process but i find it very interesting that you you mentioned the you

1146
01:40:43,804 --> 01:40:47,504
mentioned it like that because it was all it's all the same stuff this is the opposite side of

1147
01:40:47,504 --> 01:40:52,984
the world this is southeast asia yes yes this is someone this was in the 1990s it's ancient

1148
01:40:52,984 --> 01:41:01,104
for sure yeah but but even the fact that there was a like a a lady and when she said goodbye

1149
01:41:01,104 --> 01:41:05,564
I had that experience when I was leaving after a year and a half.

1150
01:41:05,804 --> 01:41:08,204
And I knew that I wasn't going to meet her again.

1151
01:41:08,744 --> 01:41:15,724
And the way that he, the teacher I was with, he'd read a lot of sort of Western literature and stuff.

1152
01:41:16,164 --> 01:41:22,144
And the way he described this place, which is so perfect, was The Midsummer Night's Dream.

1153
01:41:22,344 --> 01:41:24,064
Have you, do you know The Midsummer Night's Dream?

1154
01:41:24,264 --> 01:41:24,804
I do not.

1155
01:41:25,004 --> 01:41:26,204
The book, the Shakespeare book.

1156
01:41:26,244 --> 01:41:27,244
Oh, the Shakespeare book.

1157
01:41:27,304 --> 01:41:27,504
Okay.

1158
01:41:27,504 --> 01:41:38,704
If you can imagine this scenario of the Midsummer Night's Dream, this place, which is very magical, the deepest part of summer, the most carefree point.

1159
01:41:39,304 --> 01:41:40,264
It's most Shakespearean.

1160
01:41:40,264 --> 01:41:55,284
Right. It was kind of one of, he said when he read about this place, he used to think of like in what you were describing as your body being the border of two infinities.

1161
01:41:56,644 --> 01:42:03,444
In the Javanese tradition, the South Seas are the seas to the south of Java.

1162
01:42:03,444 --> 01:42:07,784
And the queen of the South Seas is this lady, Nyayla Rukidul.

1163
01:42:07,784 --> 01:42:18,384
And the town in which I lived, which is called Surakarta, the king of Surakarta, this is ancient Javanese spiritual tradition.

1164
01:42:19,524 --> 01:42:29,164
He, for one either week or month each year, he used to disappear from the real world and go and live with Nyayana Rukidul in the South Sea.

1165
01:42:29,924 --> 01:42:37,224
That was part of his duty as the physical king of Surakarta, central Java.

1166
01:42:37,784 --> 01:42:56,626
And you know at the time I remember thinking all this stuff it like well I learned about it from a book first but then when i experienced it i suddenly understood a shitload of stuff about what can propel people through life on a day

1167
01:42:56,626 --> 01:43:02,826
basis in this kind of mythologic in this mythological realm which i know what the ayahuasca

1168
01:43:02,826 --> 01:43:10,446
experience is probably i think there's a difference between not using drugs and using drugs i think

1169
01:43:10,446 --> 01:43:17,906
in the drug experience the mythology is is less important because i think in the in the spiritual

1170
01:43:17,906 --> 01:43:24,326
version you use the mythology to help you travel to these places with the in the in the drug side

1171
01:43:24,326 --> 01:43:30,706
you just smoke the dmt and you're projected like a cannonball into this world or stuff

1172
01:43:30,706 --> 01:43:36,086
um but but but that it was very interesting to just make that connection there because

1173
01:43:36,086 --> 01:43:43,926
it made me i always thought that that experience was very localized down there but the way you've

1174
01:43:43,926 --> 01:43:48,746
just described it and all the things that you learned were all about exactly the same thing and

1175
01:43:48,746 --> 01:43:52,806
it and i've you know i've spoken to a lot of people before about even meditation and

1176
01:43:52,806 --> 01:43:56,946
there's different forms of the way that people choose to meditate and things like that

1177
01:43:56,946 --> 01:44:04,106
um but this was so obviously about bringing yourself back into the body and this is the

1178
01:44:04,106 --> 01:44:12,066
the the practice of our age really because all the problems reside in our body and and not in

1179
01:44:12,066 --> 01:44:18,006
here and we're trying to analyze them from here and trying to work with but actually um the the

1180
01:44:18,006 --> 01:44:24,186
issues that most people have reside in their body and the only way to address them is to for want of

1181
01:44:24,186 --> 01:44:29,226
a better word make friends with them which would mean feeling them feeling those things and even a

1182
01:44:29,226 --> 01:44:35,066
physical ailment literally a stiff neck or this or that but on the whole most people for most people

1183
01:44:35,066 --> 01:44:42,626
it's some form of emotional um experience held in their body that they absolutely do not want to feel

1184
01:44:42,626 --> 01:44:49,006
and they will do anything to not feel it the trick is when you realize what's going on all you have to

1185
01:44:49,006 --> 01:44:55,166
do is feel it because when you feel it it you're you're you allow it to move yes and it's and

1186
01:44:55,166 --> 01:45:02,206
everything changes and then it's it's really quite simple and we live in an age we live in an age of

1187
01:45:02,206 --> 01:45:10,446
this pandemic of people living up here yes and and as a result you've got all this drama happening

1188
01:45:10,446 --> 01:45:17,186
in bodies and in subconsciouses and subconsciousness and all this kind of stuff i think a

1189
01:45:17,186 --> 01:45:25,126
lot of people today are i i think there are quite a few people today who are ready to wake up

1190
01:45:25,126 --> 01:45:30,526
and break the generational trauma that has been stored in their bodies but we need courageous

1191
01:45:30,526 --> 01:45:40,006
people to feel that pain pain will know will not go away until it's felt correct yeah that's been my

1192
01:45:40,006 --> 01:45:46,906
30 years of life experience from where i've been old enough to get but it's a life hack once you

1193
01:45:46,906 --> 01:45:52,366
understand it it's a very simple life and that and the most important part of it is understanding

1194
01:45:52,366 --> 01:45:57,406
that everything passes everything passes yeah and and then it's not such a big big deal anyway but

1195
01:45:57,406 --> 01:46:03,706
you do have to feel it yeah and when you and feeling it is it yeah if you were if you had some

1196
01:46:03,706 --> 01:46:13,446
very serious childhood trauma those feelings are as real then as they will be now yes but but in

1197
01:46:13,446 --> 01:46:21,206
order for them to leave to move and to leave your i suppose not even it's almost like maybe not even

1198
01:46:21,206 --> 01:46:27,846
move it's more about accept well there is movement in the flow of different energies

1199
01:46:27,846 --> 01:46:33,546
throughout your body it's a perfect metaphor um it doesn't vibe with how we understand physiology

1200
01:46:33,546 --> 01:46:41,606
but it vibe with how we um with how we look at the body spiritually and both perspective are

1201
01:46:41,606 --> 01:46:47,366
equally valid they're just not very compatible all the time and same with relativity and quantum

1202
01:46:47,366 --> 01:46:52,846
mechanics uh both are described the universe quite well they're still not compatible because

1203
01:46:52,846 --> 01:46:57,466
we don't understand everything about it we don't understand how how spirituality and physiology

1204
01:46:57,466 --> 01:47:04,186
unify yet we might someday have you spoken to tour de mister by the way because he's he's been

1205
01:47:04,186 --> 01:47:10,466
through a similar journey he did it with ibogaine yeah but he had some feelings that he could not get

1206
01:47:10,466 --> 01:47:16,466
to the bottom of and they were they were literally he uh you know i remember i called that episode

1207
01:47:16,466 --> 01:47:22,786
when we spoke something like letting go of your shackles which was basically exactly what it was

1208
01:47:22,786 --> 01:47:28,246
it was like most people in the modern world now i don't know this most but a lot of people

1209
01:47:28,246 --> 01:47:33,886
have all this stuff going on inside their body which they are disconnected from

1210
01:47:33,886 --> 01:47:40,026
but which is driving them down a particular timeline yes and they don't know it all they

1211
01:47:40,026 --> 01:47:44,686
know is they just don't want to go there because it's so painful and as a result there's a lot of

1212
01:47:44,686 --> 01:47:48,666
chaos in the world and there's a lot and these things drive you to quite chaotic experiences

1213
01:47:48,666 --> 01:47:52,206
it's going to stay in your body and you're going to look away from it instead of dealing with it

1214
01:47:52,206 --> 01:47:55,606
yeah it's the same thing we're doing with the fiat system nobody wants to take care of it but

1215
01:47:55,606 --> 01:48:03,486
because it's going to be so so painful but there i think it's upon these generations that we have

1216
01:48:03,486 --> 01:48:09,666
now like millennials and and gen z and alpha and so on to feel a lot of that pain and hopefully

1217
01:48:09,666 --> 01:48:16,506
break a lot of patterns that is my hope i haven't spoken to tour the master yet uh we uh it's on

1218
01:48:16,506 --> 01:48:23,306
my agenda at least listen to he's done a few i think he spoke to peter mcormack about it i think

1219
01:48:23,306 --> 01:48:27,846
that's possibly no i heard about it so yeah but me and him we had a pretty chaotic conversation

1220
01:48:27,846 --> 01:48:33,286
because you know i a bit like when we started this conversation sometimes you never know where

1221
01:48:33,286 --> 01:48:39,166
to jump into this world and when you do it's all over the place because you're looking for a thread

1222
01:48:39,166 --> 01:48:41,386
You're looking for the correct thread.

1223
01:48:42,026 --> 01:48:46,466
This is the stable one that I can actually now climb up, you know.

1224
01:48:47,586 --> 01:48:50,686
And I only spoke with him for an hour or so.

1225
01:48:51,186 --> 01:48:55,766
But he had a very specific thing in mind when he took Ibogaine.

1226
01:48:55,986 --> 01:49:01,146
And, you know, Ibogaine is like the arsehole of all drugs.

1227
01:49:01,466 --> 01:49:02,966
It doesn't like you.

1228
01:49:02,966 --> 01:49:08,906
And when you hear his experience, it's the one that people that take those kind of drugs say,

1229
01:49:08,906 --> 01:49:12,826
yeah don't don't do it you're gonna have a bad trip you're gonna have a bad time and therefore

1230
01:49:12,826 --> 01:49:19,766
he did he had a 24 hours of hell where he thought that he was being you know controlled by by aliens

1231
01:49:19,766 --> 01:49:25,166
and stuff or whatever but the point was by the he did it twice and by the second time he had

1232
01:49:25,166 --> 01:49:32,586
pinpointed the feeling and he had found it and he realized what it was and that's all that that

1233
01:49:32,586 --> 01:49:38,886
whole experience was about was putting you back in touch with your body which is what people

1234
01:49:38,886 --> 01:49:45,426
doing like i i know this from i'm climb mountains especially when i was younger i used to do a lot

1235
01:49:45,426 --> 01:49:53,646
when you study the kind of people that solo up ridiculous mountaintops you realize they're doing

1236
01:49:53,646 --> 01:49:59,446
it to access emotions there's that that but it has to be such a rare this it's so difficult for

1237
01:49:59,446 --> 01:50:06,306
them to get to that place in their body they have to do these incredible tasks and journeys to to

1238
01:50:06,306 --> 01:50:09,466
to be in this position where they can actually access this,

1239
01:50:09,746 --> 01:50:10,266
this stuff.

1240
01:50:10,406 --> 01:50:15,166
And some people use drugs and some people use just life or whatever,

1241
01:50:15,166 --> 01:50:20,546
but really they're all about accessing things in your body.

1242
01:50:20,766 --> 01:50:21,586
I think at least,

1243
01:50:21,766 --> 01:50:21,926
you know,

1244
01:50:21,926 --> 01:50:23,126
and also we,

1245
01:50:23,146 --> 01:50:24,946
we go to these places to,

1246
01:50:25,006 --> 01:50:30,066
to remove blockages so that these feelings can start moving again.

1247
01:50:30,206 --> 01:50:30,506
Yes.

1248
01:50:30,746 --> 01:50:32,186
Because they tend to,

1249
01:50:32,546 --> 01:50:33,666
you feel it.

1250
01:50:33,666 --> 01:50:42,846
A lot of people who have been censored, quieted, beaten, they can have a blockage in their throat.

1251
01:50:43,146 --> 01:50:51,306
People who have been betrayed or abandoned can feel it in their heart.

1252
01:50:52,506 --> 01:51:02,646
And when we move through life, when we just walk down the street, we're going to pass signs, we're going to pass stores, we're going to pass people.

1253
01:51:02,646 --> 01:51:05,486
and we'll let that information just flow through us.

1254
01:51:06,526 --> 01:51:13,286
But some things get stuck in us as a memory, as an emotion, as a feeling,

1255
01:51:13,286 --> 01:51:19,506
as something that feels like it's tight in your chest or tight in your belly or tight in your throat.

1256
01:51:20,606 --> 01:51:28,366
And to get that energy moving again, you might sometime need a medicine or an experience.

1257
01:51:29,566 --> 01:51:32,326
And I found that ayahuasca did that for me.

1258
01:51:32,646 --> 01:51:39,646
It removed the stone that I had carried in my chest for many years.

1259
01:51:39,646 --> 01:51:42,646
And now my chest is free, I can breathe again.