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Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast

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of the Free Cities Foundation.

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Hello and welcome to this episode number 160 of the Free Cities podcast,

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brought to you by the wonderful Veritas Villages. They're building off-grid freedom-oriented

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communities in Latin America. And these communities will more certainly appeal to you

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if you're a freedom lover looking to live amongst like-minded individuals. They've got places in

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nicaragua in panama and a new one in costa rica and if you're a bitcoiner well you can buy your

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property with bitcoin and spend bitcoin at all communities www.veritasvillages.com forward slash

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free cities everything in the show notes and i'm just looking at an email i got from them

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the other day it says that two prime beachfront residences have just become available for sale

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they've just been built and they have something called preferred pricing on them this means that

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the price is held until the end of 2025 so you've got about a month left because construction and

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material reviews take place regularly in these inflationary times as you can imagine and the

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price is frozen until the 31st of december i'm just looking at the two available here

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wow that beachfront one is absolutely prime how much is it three that's what three hundred and

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forty thousand pounds for a beachfront three bedroom two and a half bath house overlooking

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the sea wow why do i live here i know why i live here but the plan is evolving one day

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that will be me right today's show and it's a very popular returning guest always a pleasure

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to speak with mr mark edge mark's an award-winning radio show host widely credited with introducing

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quite a few people to the world of free cities at least a lot of the people i know heard about

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this stuff through Mark. I think most famously, though, he is one half of the Free Talk Live

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duo. That was the Libertarian radio show he hosted out of New Hampshire with Ian Freeman,

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until, of course, Ian Freeman was incarcerated, currently serving time in prison for,

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in quotes, operating a Bitcoin money laundering scheme. Obviously, there's much more to that story

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than the attorney's office statement would imply you can give episode 132 of this podcast a listen

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if you want to go deeper that's an interview i did with his wife bonnie also visit www.freeiannow.org

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to go even deeper that's f-r-e-e-i-a-n-n-o-w free ian now quick ai summary of this episode

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for the curious the podcast discusses libertarian projects like new hampshire's free state project

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liberland and seasteading as ways to build freer societies with mark noting the benefits and limits

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of concentrating like-minded individuals in one place we explore privatized city-states billionaire

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influences and the flaws of democracy advocating proprietarianism where owners prioritize citizens

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well-being examples like bill gates's farmland illustrates state and elite impact while libertarian

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strategy emphasizes autonomy adult freedom and creating spaces where adults can act freely

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without harming others well yes that's kind of true it's just a great conversation with a great

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libertarian right that's my take anyway thanks to my awesome value for value subscribers i'm going

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to mention you all by name today because i really do appreciate your monthly donations we've got

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origin drums many thanks we've got nicholas many thanks we've got shadrack set in stone a n t we've

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got an in pub we've got another in pub we've got bullish mike many thanks mike we've got matthias

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we've got justin bianchi you are all my ogs and i really do genuinely appreciate i know it doesn't

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seem like much but it makes a difference and i'm stacking that bitcoin for the podcast strategic

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reserve and we will use it when we are in desperate times so many many thanks indeed

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for those of you that aren't subscribers six dollars a month you get early access to every

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show i don't know whether you've noticed that guys you now get the show on a thursday instead

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and everyone else gets it on a Friday.

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You also get access to bonus episodes.

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There's been four of them so far.

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They're all previously unheard conversations

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that should appeal to the Value for Value crowd.

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According to the feedback I've got, they definitely do,

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especially the one with Gigi.

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You know what, as well, I think I'm going to bring back

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reading out Noster comments here.

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I did make that a stipulation of being a subscriber but what I've noticed is all my subscribers you're

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really quite quiet and so I'm going to actually go back to reading all the boosts and comments each

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week on the value for value platforms mainly because it's so easy now I can just click on

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my fountain dashboard and see everything so here you go quick one for last the last seven days

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guard us many thanks for just the random boost justin bianchi favorite pod of the year that's

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153 daniel prince the grand conspiracy as dan talking about all the latest conspiracies

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are rife in the world justin again thank you about trey goff love the project best of luck to prosper

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me too and oh another one justin's really boosting a lot many thanks for all those sats talking about

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massimo last week another great pod sorry for not boosting last month i got locked out of my fountain

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the future will not have good ux don't worry about it justin i appreciate all that uh whatever we got

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hypno great pod you can just do things that's episode 150 knut democracy leads to totalitarianism

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that was a very popular episode a couple more here we've got uh mr rabbit thank you awesome

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discussion jeff g talking about privacy on the internet that's episode 147 and the last one is

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piers yoni appleberg the medicine of meaning and his comment is just four mushrooms and four

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strong arms and they're not just any mushroom of course they are fly agaric mushrooms which is very

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relevant to that episode because there was a lot of talk about hallucinogenic substances that was

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episode 154 right don forget just before we get on to the show pre conference is going to prosper in 2026 and tickets are really selling fast we never actually sold this many tickets so far in advance

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and there's obviously a reason for that prague is quite a large venue we've been hosting it at the

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same place for the last few years and space will be limited a little bit in prosper so i would

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expect this event to sell out at some point it hasn't sold out now but you never know so if

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you're thinking of coming i'd probably start planning as soon as you can especially the

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americans amongst you you know what finally you don't have to travel halfway around the world to

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see all your free cities mates it's just a short hop over to the wonderful island of roatan in

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honduras talking of honduras still no official result on the election believe it or not however

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polymarket still has our guy our main guy is the winner so i'm still going with that for the time

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being uh most importantly though the socialists are completely out of the picture so happy days

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there hopefully next week i'll have an actual result for you but in the meantime it's still

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looking pretty good right time for some unadulterated freedom talk from the man like

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mark sit back and revel in his unashamed ideals at least try and relax as you enjoy my conversation

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with mark edge

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Right, Mr. Mark. It's been a while.

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Indeed. Well, it wasn't that long, was it?

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I don't know. Maybe about a year? A little less than a year?

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No, it's definitely not been a year, but I was in America. It was in America, wasn't it?

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I came to your former studio.

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The Free Talk Live Studios.

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And actually, you're well-received in the fair state of New Hampshire.

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According to the comments, at least, you're a liked individual up in those parts.

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Yeah, that sounds right.

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Probably you've just been there for a very long time, haven't you?

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Yeah, I mean, I don't give.

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So one thing about free staters, if we want to use that term, porcupines, people who have signed up to be members of, member isn't the right term, a signer of the Free State Project statement of intent is the terminology that we use.

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Those folks are probably the most patriotic people you're ever going to meet.

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American patriotic.

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No, New Hampshire patriotic.

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Right.

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Right.

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So they specifically that state.

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The next following that I've met are folks from Texas.

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So if that gives you some idea of what we're talking about.

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I mean, people really like the place that they live and they want you to move there.

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They want you to believe that it is the best at everything for everything.

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And 20 years of living in New Hampshire says to me that that is not true, right?

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Like New Hampshire is really, really, really good at several things.

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It's a great place to raise a family.

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It's the freest state in the union by a good stretch.

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And now it's getting freer.

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It's moving in the right direction.

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You know, lots of things.

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But when somebody says, well, I don't want to move because of the weather.

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Well, I think that's a valid concern.

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I mean, your life is short and you've got to make it what you want it to be.

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And if you don't want to slip on the ice once a year, deal with the cold, heat costs more than air conditioning, just whatever it is.

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that you don't want to, I mean, some people want to live in New York city. They want to live in big

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cities and they can't appreciate what New Hampshire has to offer. I mean, Manchester just

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doesn't stack up to a major city vibe. And you know, if that's what you want, then that's what

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you want. And I think that's okay. In many cases, free staters are just like, no, New Hampshire's

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the right place for everybody who's a libertarian at all. And I just don't think that's true. Now,

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If you're a libertarian living in Maine or Vermont or Massachusetts, upstate New York, maybe Connecticut, Rhode Island, what are you waiting for?

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I really don't understand.

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I mean, especially if you're in Massachusetts, you can't be 40 miles from New Hampshire.

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So, you know, I mean, is it you're not going to be that far from the relatives.

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Just drive in from a period of time, whatever it is.

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So I'm on the fence in many ways, and I feel like I add a voice of reason to this particular conversation.

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Funnily enough, I did a speech in Serbia recently to a group of people that didn't really know much about the free state – sorry, the kind of free city's ecosystem, but including the free state.

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and so I wrote a brief speech which covered everything on the spectrum from

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Liberland at one end which is full sovereignty to sort of like I put the free state at this end

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which is kind of like you're not necessarily looking for sovereignty but but you're still

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looking for a freer society and and I actually came to the conclusion that it's it's literally

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one of the best ways to actually do it when you look at all the different ways people are trying

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to create freedom in the world.

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And even the Liberland end of the spectrum,

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which is a group of people going for full-blown sovereignty

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on a piece of land, right?

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Even they are now kind of implementing a version

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of the free state as well.

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Because it came out in a conversation I had with Vitt

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and a few other people from their government,

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is that, you know, they have the place they call the Ark,

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which is on the other side of the river in Serbia.

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right which is there they bought a bit of land there it's an old kind of it's a bit like an old

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camp ground type place with a clubhouse and stuff and they've turned it into the place that

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no one kicks them out of basically and it's only a sort of short boat ride to the actual

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Liberland on the other side of the river but they're in Serbia and I was sitting in there

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thinking this is Liberland yeah this is Liberland right like and because no one's coming in you're

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all libelanders you all believe in libeland you're flying the libeland flag and no one's coming in

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here and kicking you off because you just bought a bit of land in serbia and and said this is this

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is where we're going to hang out and and the conversation then evolved into yeah like but

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we've got a kind of we've got a libeland in panama now and we've got a group of libelanders over here

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and over here and over here and you think yeah this is the the new the free state way which is

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implement yourself and sort of like, and this is going to sound evil, but it's not, infiltrate.

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Infiltrate, yep.

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But it's not the dark version of infiltrate.

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I mean, there's probably another term.

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Integrate.

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Integrate.

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Integrate.

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Inculcate yourself.

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You know, like there's a few things you can do, but I became a fireman in Westmoreland,

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New Hampshire, and served as a fireman for 10 years.

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I did that to serve my community and ingratiate myself to some extent and to some extent protect myself from the slings and arrows of my fellows in the area because the free staters coming in, you all wear this mantle of we're from the outside and we're here to help.

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Nobody wants that, right? So if you infiltrate, if you inculcate yourself, if you become part of the

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community then at the very least you take away a bit of that argument And by the way at least half of the people in New Hampshire maybe it 60 percent are from somewhere besides New Hampshire So they really can say much either

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You know, if you're talking about politics, then they're talking about politics, too.

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Right. And if you're from outside the state and they're from outside the state, what can they actually say?

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Oh, but you came here as part of a project and I didn't.

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So you're worse.

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I mean, it's a it's a flimsy argument.

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It's an interesting one though, isn't it? It's the immigration argument.

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Yes, it is. It's precisely that.

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I know, but that, because New Hampshire is quite a liberal place normally, isn't it?

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I don't think that's true. I think that it is perceived that way.

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Oh, okay. Well, some of the cities I went to were.

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Yeah. Keene definitely is.

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Right. And also, is it Portsmouth?

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Portsmouth definitely is.

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Yeah, right. And so that's another beautiful irony that if you complain about interstaters,

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Yeah, people coming in, stealing our jobs.

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No, but that is the – yeah, it's very interesting actually.

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Yeah, it turns the argument on its head in many ways.

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And we'll say it as free staters is, yeah, yeah, immigration is the problem.

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It's those mass holes moving up from Massachusetts that just vote the same way they did.

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I don't think that's a valid argument.

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But many free staters will say it is that people from Massachusetts are coming into the state.

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And they're voting the same way they did. But Massachusetts has, what, 35, 40 percent of its voters are Republicans. And there isn't a single Republican congressional district in the entire state of Massachusetts or New England, for that matter.

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And when they come up and they continue to vote Republican, just like they did in Massachusetts, then they're actually making things better, to my mind.

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Now, Republicans aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but the freestaters have been able to work with them in order to achieve many of the things they want to achieve.

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And, you know, freestaters aren't homogenous.

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So the freestater representatives disagree on some issues some of the time.

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And, but by and large, New Hampshire is moving freer and freer every single year. And it's because people said they're going to move, they're going to get involved. Now, there was a debate. I moved to New Hampshire in 2006. So we're going on, what, 19 years as a free stater. Well, I guess I was a free stater before that. But anyway, I've been involved for quite some time.

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There used to be a debate about, well, what are you going to do when you get to New Hampshire? Are you going to be an outside the system activist? Are you going to do this thing or that thing to forward liberty? And ultimately, there isn't much that you can do that is more effective than being a representative in the state legislature.

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Maybe running, of course, or a senator or something like that.

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We have a couple of people who've been elected as state senators.

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And this is just far and away the most effective thing that somebody can do is to participate within the legislature.

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And it really works.

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It does.

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And, yeah, that's been my big conclusion, I think, from speaking now for three years.

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I've had the two biggest revelations I've had about this whole movement is one, seasteading is super important, more important than people realize, I think, as even a meme, as an idea, because it's actually the most sovereign free thing you can do on this planet as far as I can work out.

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You're certainly more free.

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I don't know if you're more sovereign.

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Go ahead.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Well, I put it this way.

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I think that if you believe in free private cities, then it's the most perfect embodiment of one.

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A floating private city would be that.

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Anyway, that's number one.

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Number two is that the best way to create a libertarian society is to go where all the libertarians are.

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It's as simple as that.

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But not even any sort of esoteric things.

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Just do what the free state did.

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Because there's not many of us.

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So just get them all in one place.

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And then at least you have a mirror pointed towards you and you can't complain anymore because these are all your people.

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See, I disagree with your premise.

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Let me, if I will, tell you a little story.

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So you've talked to Massimo Mazzoni.

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Do I have his right name?

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Mazzoni.

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Mazzoni.

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Yes, of course.

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I say it right too.

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Massimo Mazzoni set up Morazon.

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Yes.

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And he did it about three years ago, maybe four years ago.

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It's a ZA, by the way.

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People should know that, but in case they don't.

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Yep.

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It's an economic and educational development zone in Honduras.

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It was built for workers, people who don't make much to live in near the factories in Honduras.

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And there's not – I mean what?

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Two, three libertarians that have – I guess there's probably been a total of half a dozen libertarians that have lived there in its entirety.

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It's got –

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Card-carrying issues like Alex and Joyce and people like that.

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200 rooms at this point or something to that effect.

238
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And those people have an effect or whatever,

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but most of the vast majority of people are just workers living their lives.

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And because Massimo set this up to be a libertarian place,

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it functions as a libertarian place.

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There's no opportunity.

243
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You don't get to vote on what you want.

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Massimo visits about once a quarter and has a little town hall and hears the complaints and the praise from the local citizenry, mostly complaints, which, by the way, is hilarious.

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When a $2 an hour worker is berating a billionaire, you don't get the opportunity to do that in a regular government.

246
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But Massimo cares because he wants to set this up in a way that people can understand.

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Now, obviously, he doesn't bend to every wish that comes his way, but he tries to make this something that people really want to live in.

248
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And it turns out that our ideas work, which we always thought they would, but we'd never get the opportunity because that juicy plum, that delicious fruit of the state is just too much for the authoritarians.

249
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They've got to have it.

250
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They have to just bite into your freedom and let the drool down their face.

251
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They cannot let you be free.

252
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They cannot let you not think about their, you know, their vain ass.

253
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You know, these people just can't let you be free.

254
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But in Morazon, you're free.

255
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And no libertarians, other than Massimo, made it that way.

256
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So I would say, in fact, that the Free State Project is a really great idea because it gives libertarians something to do while we, who are actually building a free societies, go about doing them.

257
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Because the libertarians, in many cases, you know, they just want to argue with each other about this thing or that thing or whatever minutia.

258
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And that's good. And again, the libertarians that moved to New Hampshire are being effective.

259
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They are taking, pulling, popping the rivets of the state is what I like to say.

260
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One by one, pink, every legislative year, pink, pink, pink.

261
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Right. They pop a few of those rivets and every year it gets to be more and more of those rivets.

262
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And I think that at this point it a foregone conclusion that they going to be successful in so much as they will make New Hampshire as free as a state can be And that a bold strong statement And I hope that it accepted in that way

263
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But it will not be Ancapistan, right? It will not be a truly free place. There will be a

264
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libertarian who moves there and says, gosh darn it, this stinks because I can't do this crazy

265
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thing, whatever that crazy thing might be. I don't know what that crazy thing is. There's a lot of

266
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crazy libertarians out there. And so, I mean, I think New Hampshire is good for that. It gives

267
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them something to do, but at the same time, what works, what truly works is working with a

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government, creating a special economic zone, arguing for what you can get as far as freedoms

269
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within that special economic zone, and then go about building, fundraising and building that

270
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special economics and you know whatever a place residence within it because once if you can live

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in there then you truly possess the freedom talking of billionaires i had an interesting

272
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well if i didn't actually interact but i'm trying to interact with a person

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who um do you know do you know that if you had a whitney webb she has a she has an amazing podcast

274
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called the unlimited hangout it's like she's she's one of those people that really joins the dots

275
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thinking person's proper conspiracy theorist you know real real real data real yeah this is there

276
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are conspiracies yeah exactly right anyway she shared on their site an article um by a gentleman

277
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is a british journalist i you know called journalist i don't know whatever that means

278
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called ian davis it was called city states without limits now this is an obviously a meme which is

279
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now going to start arising if it not already has let me give you a quick i'm going to read out what

280
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what a summary is that there is a powerful group of silicon valley oligarchs who are pushing for

281
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the construction of privatized city states aligned with a global network who want to move away from

282
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nation states to create an international network of city-states and it's a conspiracy it's not a

283
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and i mean massimo's presumably i know the funny thing is they they talked about prosper in this

284
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article they didn't talk about um morizan which would have been an interesting one because i

285
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massimo doesn't strike me as the kind of oligarch looking for a tax dodge in morizan or whatever you

286
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know but what do you think of that because like they they cite they cite things like the fact that

287
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you know palantir not palantir what's his name the guy who runs palantir was involved in funding

288
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prospera and this that and the other and they talk about something called the dark enlightenment

289
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which is um do you know who curtis yarvin is have you heard of that guy apparently i'm just

290
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sitting on the wrong end of the internet oh right okay right um anyway the point is that they are

291
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that there is a meme and it was shared on a an outlet which i respect albeit conspiracies and

292
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and when i looked when i read through it i thought wow this guy sees conspiracies everywhere

293
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literally but what do you think about that because there's there there must be an element of truth

294
00:28:17,574 --> 00:28:23,414
in there i mean someone is funding these i mean rod roger ver's former business partner what's

295
00:28:23,414 --> 00:28:29,454
his name olivia yeah olivia he's now talking about destiny destiny doing one in st kitts he's a

296
00:28:29,454 --> 00:28:32,274
tech billionaire, I suppose you'd call him, isn't he?

297
00:28:32,734 --> 00:28:34,594
I think it's an accurate assessment.

298
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Right.

299
00:28:35,254 --> 00:28:36,094
So what do you think?

300
00:28:36,094 --> 00:28:40,034
When you define somebody as a billionaire, I think that anything above like $400 million

301
00:28:40,034 --> 00:28:41,714
qualifies as a billionaire.

302
00:28:42,114 --> 00:28:43,094
Like, who knows?

303
00:28:43,734 --> 00:28:45,794
When you get to that level of money, what's it mean?

304
00:28:45,974 --> 00:28:46,174
Exactly.

305
00:28:46,954 --> 00:28:54,854
But what do you think about this notion that there is a kind of oligarchic echelon of society

306
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who is doing this on purpose, basically to isolate them.

307
00:28:59,954 --> 00:29:04,394
I mean, to isolate themselves, but to create a city-state which they run.

308
00:29:04,614 --> 00:29:06,174
Yes. I think that's what they're doing.

309
00:29:06,354 --> 00:29:07,594
I think that's what I would do.

310
00:29:08,214 --> 00:29:09,114
I mean, absolutely.

311
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If I had the money to do that, yes.

312
00:29:12,334 --> 00:29:13,014
Here's why.

313
00:29:13,474 --> 00:29:15,754
Because the city bureaucrats, right?

314
00:29:16,034 --> 00:29:17,634
These people who managed to get elected.

315
00:29:17,974 --> 00:29:18,754
I've been elected.

316
00:29:19,374 --> 00:29:22,014
I was the town moderator for Hudson, New Hampshire.

317
00:29:22,454 --> 00:29:23,054
You know why?

318
00:29:23,054 --> 00:29:30,294
because when i went to town hall i asked hey um on the last day of the election so i mean you know

319
00:29:30,294 --> 00:29:37,254
i went with 45 minutes left tick tock tick tock as the election um the registration was was wrapping

320
00:29:37,254 --> 00:29:42,554
up and i said are there any positions that haven't been um signed up for and they said yes

321
00:29:42,554 --> 00:29:49,254
there's town moderator and register a voter registration person right and i said

322
00:29:49,254 --> 00:29:57,474
hmm i think i'll just sign up for town moderator and i did now at that point i'm the only person

323
00:29:57,474 --> 00:30:03,654
on the ballot and to beat somebody who's not on the ballot is a darn difficult thing to do

324
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so basically ta-da you know just because i walked in now the only qualification i had was

325
00:30:11,674 --> 00:30:20,174
the ability to look at the town website and no other qualification. Now, I've tried to do a good

326
00:30:20,174 --> 00:30:25,014
job and all those sorts of things, but there's no guarantee that somebody's good, virtuous,

327
00:30:25,694 --> 00:30:32,214
intelligent, timely. There's nothing that guarantees that your elected officials are good

328
00:30:32,214 --> 00:30:38,094
people. And if you presume that half of the people in the world are bad and half of the people are

329
00:30:38,094 --> 00:30:43,074
good. I don't know what you presume, what anybody presumes as far as how many people are good or

330
00:30:43,074 --> 00:30:49,734
bad. I tend to think that everybody just sort of follows incentives and some people have a moral

331
00:30:49,734 --> 00:30:56,194
compass, but most people aren't really bad. There's some people that seem bad to me, but it's a very

332
00:30:56,194 --> 00:31:03,614
small percentage of the population. But what keeps them from signing up to be anything? And this is

333
00:31:03,614 --> 00:31:09,954
the flaw in the system is, is those people want to control you. They want to control what you do.

334
00:31:09,954 --> 00:31:16,594
They think that they do it best. The guy who, um, you know, runs as city manager just went to

335
00:31:16,594 --> 00:31:23,674
college. Like that's the only thing that qualifies him to be the city manager. They know nothing.

336
00:31:23,854 --> 00:31:33,554
They are the dullards that control us, the power hungry creeps. And yes, absolutely. I would like

337
00:31:33,554 --> 00:31:39,094
to work with some government in order to get a special economic zone or even more, some sovereign

338
00:31:39,094 --> 00:31:47,934
territory where no longer can these people tell me what to do. And here's why. Here's your quote.

339
00:31:48,654 --> 00:31:57,074
Democracy sucks. It's really terrible. It's probably worse than monarchy, but only a bit.

340
00:31:58,294 --> 00:32:02,994
And somehow now, since we had all these democratic revolutions, these republics that

341
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replaced monarchies. We have this idea that is so deep in our psyche that somehow this is the only

342
00:32:10,474 --> 00:32:16,434
choice. You may have a dictatorship or you may have a democracy and those are your choices.

343
00:32:16,434 --> 00:32:25,074
Pick. Pick. Obviously there's the choice, but there's not. It's not that. We can truly have

344
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a system that works for everybody, that doesn't require vigilance and protection or anything like

345
00:32:33,934 --> 00:32:42,754
that. And here's what it is. It's simple propertarianism. It's you go someplace and live

346
00:32:42,754 --> 00:32:49,494
someplace that somebody runs for the purpose of making the citizens happy. This is essentially

347
00:32:49,494 --> 00:32:55,894
what Massimo does at his, uh, in Morazon. And this is essentially what they do at Club Med

348
00:32:55,894 --> 00:33:04,014
and Princess Cruise Lines. They create a place, they run that place and you want to go there to

349
00:33:04,014 --> 00:33:09,494
that place. Now, I understand that the, uh, the specifics I'm talking about are, you know,

350
00:33:09,534 --> 00:33:13,694
people waiting on you and things like that. But what if you could create a city without all the,

351
00:33:13,694 --> 00:33:17,754
the butlers, you know, would have a house cleaning

352
00:33:17,754 --> 00:33:19,934
and that sort of thing, that

353
00:33:19,992 --> 00:33:25,752
worked for you the way those places work for you. And if you can do that, that's great.

354
00:33:25,752 --> 00:33:31,172
I don't go to a hotel and wonder whether or not the hotel manager is a Republican or a Democrat.

355
00:33:31,552 --> 00:33:37,032
That would be insane. That would be a psychopath that says, I'm not going to go there. That's a

356
00:33:37,032 --> 00:33:42,052
Republican that runs that. If I like a hotel, I like a hotel. And it doesn't matter the politics

357
00:33:42,052 --> 00:33:46,932
of the guy who runs it. That guy is going to make sure that people are quiet in the hallway so that

358
00:33:46,932 --> 00:33:53,872
I can sleep because that's what I want from him. I don't want to be, think about how much time and

359
00:33:53,872 --> 00:34:01,812
energy goes into grasping that juicy fruit of power that is the state. Think about the amount

360
00:34:01,812 --> 00:34:09,212
of time that we all waste in the horse race of politics. And I like the horse race of politics.

361
00:34:09,392 --> 00:34:15,372
I don't know what sport I'd take up watching if it wasn't for politics, but that's what I'm doing

362
00:34:15,372 --> 00:34:22,512
because I have no effect on who's getting elected and who's not. So I truly say that the solution to

363
00:34:22,512 --> 00:34:30,032
liberty is. Properitarianism, just these little states that are owned by billionaires. Fine.

364
00:34:30,192 --> 00:34:34,412
They're the ones who can build them. They're the ones who have the money. If somebody said to you

365
00:34:34,412 --> 00:34:40,332
or I, hey, go ahead. Here's a piece of land you can build on it, but it has to be your money.

366
00:34:40,332 --> 00:34:45,692
It's going to be huts, right? We're not going to have electricity because we just can't

367
00:34:45,692 --> 00:34:50,732
generate all of that. Maybe we can buy some solar panels and work it out, but a billionaire can say,

368
00:34:50,972 --> 00:34:54,812
all right, let's bring in the construction crews and we're going to get things going.

369
00:34:55,052 --> 00:35:02,832
So if you don't like the billionaire's city, you leave. So long as you can leave,

370
00:35:02,892 --> 00:35:09,992
that's the only freedom there is. Tim, there's one freedom, the freedom to leave. And here's why.

371
00:35:09,992 --> 00:35:15,532
People will often use, they just throw, within libertarianism, they throw around the term slave.

372
00:35:16,232 --> 00:35:17,212
And they're wrong.

373
00:35:18,152 --> 00:35:23,152
A slave is a person who must work and mayn't leave.

374
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That's the definition.

375
00:35:24,932 --> 00:35:27,072
They must work and they mayn't leave.

376
00:35:27,592 --> 00:35:32,252
And ladies and gentlemen, you might have to work to maintain your lifestyle.

377
00:35:32,832 --> 00:35:37,252
But if you are listening to this, the chances are very good you live in a Western country.

378
00:35:37,252 --> 00:35:40,252
and that Western country will truly pay you not to work.

379
00:35:40,412 --> 00:35:43,512
If you just decide tomorrow, I'm not working anymore.

380
00:35:43,952 --> 00:35:46,912
They'll start giving you money because that's what they do.

381
00:35:47,492 --> 00:35:50,132
Messed up as it is, it's truly a messed up system.

382
00:35:50,712 --> 00:35:54,072
And that's why it's going to fail because somebody went out and said,

383
00:35:54,352 --> 00:35:57,392
oh, but I feel so bad for the people who can't work.

384
00:35:58,052 --> 00:36:01,492
Then everybody who doesn't want to work becomes a person who can't work.

385
00:36:01,812 --> 00:36:02,952
And that's the end of it.

386
00:36:02,952 --> 00:36:05,172
Now, I suspect one of these billionaire places,

387
00:36:05,172 --> 00:36:11,052
they're not going to have much sympathy for the notion of, well, I can't work. What are you going

388
00:36:11,052 --> 00:36:16,452
to do to support me? But maybe that's so. If so, it's probably going to deteriorate and I'm not

389
00:36:16,452 --> 00:36:21,572
going to want anything to do with it. But I get to choose. I get to decide which one of these.

390
00:36:21,812 --> 00:36:27,152
So yes, that's absolutely the conspiracy. The conspiracy is that wealthy people are sick and

391
00:36:27,152 --> 00:36:33,752
tired of stupid, poor morons telling them how to live, affecting productivity,

392
00:36:33,752 --> 00:36:37,072
and regulating them out of existence,

393
00:36:37,952 --> 00:36:39,552
in the case of Roger Ver,

394
00:36:39,812 --> 00:36:41,772
chasing them around the globe

395
00:36:41,772 --> 00:36:44,452
over regulations that didn't exist

396
00:36:44,452 --> 00:36:47,292
when they gave up their citizenship,

397
00:36:47,992 --> 00:36:50,872
it's absolutely insane.

398
00:36:51,372 --> 00:36:52,492
And that's why they want it.

399
00:36:52,592 --> 00:36:54,892
Because government sucks so bad.

400
00:36:55,492 --> 00:36:58,052
These guys who got rich within those places

401
00:36:58,052 --> 00:36:59,852
want to leave it

402
00:36:59,852 --> 00:37:01,812
because they can see just how bad it is.

403
00:37:01,812 --> 00:37:03,972
They got enriched in spite of it.

404
00:37:07,172 --> 00:37:07,652
Thanks.

405
00:37:08,352 --> 00:37:10,912
You're supposed to say, no, it's not a conspiracy.

406
00:37:13,572 --> 00:37:17,812
I make my living telling the truth and saying things that others won't.

407
00:37:18,052 --> 00:37:21,032
I mean, basically what you're saying, which was one of my first thoughts.

408
00:37:21,232 --> 00:37:29,792
I didn't hammer it home as hard as you, but my first thought was, why is it so weird that people want to live outside the state?

409
00:37:29,792 --> 00:37:35,452
it's it's basically a statist argument right from the core right and i've got a feeling and which is

410
00:37:35,452 --> 00:37:40,152
but that's what made that was what was surprising about it because it's it comes from the sector of

411
00:37:40,152 --> 00:37:46,352
society that's distrustful of things sure but it's almost like yeah but it's almost like

412
00:37:46,352 --> 00:37:53,212
the default setting of the state is it just exists without them even noticing it there

413
00:37:53,212 --> 00:37:57,792
i think that's what it is because and i've reached out to this guy i'm trying to talk to him because i

414
00:37:57,792 --> 00:37:59,272
I want to tap his mind.

415
00:37:59,392 --> 00:38:00,952
I want to see why.

416
00:38:02,412 --> 00:38:05,632
It was a ginormous article, two-part.

417
00:38:06,232 --> 00:38:08,312
It took me about half an hour to read it.

418
00:38:08,352 --> 00:38:09,572
It was huge, you know.

419
00:38:10,332 --> 00:38:14,752
And it's, yeah, it's, I don't know.

420
00:38:14,812 --> 00:38:17,652
I'm in two minds because I think the way they describe,

421
00:38:17,652 --> 00:38:21,152
when they were describing Prospera, it was all,

422
00:38:21,312 --> 00:38:25,592
a lot of it was crappy talking points from about five years ago.

423
00:38:25,592 --> 00:38:30,892
you know this the crawfish bay stuff and all this kind of like that wasn't really true that

424
00:38:30,892 --> 00:38:35,492
they're going to come and they're going to take land and they it was all stuff from left-wing

425
00:38:35,492 --> 00:38:41,032
publications and funny thing i heard one that prospero had murdered people in crawfish rock

426
00:38:41,032 --> 00:38:44,872
and got away with it okay so i mean that's how crazy this stuff is but it was all the left-wing

427
00:38:44,872 --> 00:38:50,652
talking points without really researching them and then a bunch of research into who were part

428
00:38:50,652 --> 00:38:56,132
the original funding of Prospera, Peter Thiel, and they class Peter Thiel as one of, I don't know

429
00:38:56,132 --> 00:39:01,832
whether Peter Thiel's, I don't know, a lot of conspiracy theories around Peter Thiel.

430
00:39:02,032 --> 00:39:04,852
If you're rich, there's conspiracy theories that say you're a bad person.

431
00:39:04,992 --> 00:39:11,792
Right. But, but so I was just surprised because it's like, yeah, I'm on, I'm on your side. I'm

432
00:39:11,792 --> 00:39:17,072
thinking to this guy. Yeah, I'm on your side. I'm on the side of, of what you're talking about here.

433
00:39:17,072 --> 00:39:24,892
um but um i think if i if i approached my own life and i was thinking at the time you know

434
00:39:24,892 --> 00:39:30,672
i was i was some i was on a group a work group chat a free cities foundation group chat and

435
00:39:30,672 --> 00:39:36,752
someone asked a question about wanting to change something about the way we all work right and i

436
00:39:36,752 --> 00:39:42,472
imagined i was suspicious and suddenly i looked at that and went why is he trying to change that

437
00:39:42,472 --> 00:39:52,672
You know, and because I would just I was trying to put myself in this bloke's shoes that he's suspicious of what's going on here, because I'm not suspicious of the free cities movement at all.

438
00:39:52,752 --> 00:39:59,532
I know a lot of the people. I know some of the billionaires, you know, and I kind of know a bit about what's going on.

439
00:39:59,612 --> 00:40:09,892
But I'm not really suspicious. But as soon as I turned into suspicious mode, I could even turn that to my colleagues and go, hmm, why are you asking to change that about the way we work?

440
00:40:09,892 --> 00:40:14,132
Is that is this an ulterior motive here? Do we need to do that? You know?

441
00:40:14,132 --> 00:40:19,752
And it was just like, come on. And that's kind of how I got the impression because everything was

442
00:40:20,652 --> 00:40:26,532
conspiracy about about the way that city states are arising. Whereas I can

443
00:40:27,112 --> 00:40:32,832
I cannot advocate for city states from a completely opposite. I can go the complete opposite way.

444
00:40:32,832 --> 00:40:36,832
And like what we mostly do on this podcast

445
00:40:36,832 --> 00:40:44,112
is talk about the the benefits of them and I or I could talk about the benefits of them for

446
00:40:44,112 --> 00:40:50,592
billionaires as well which there are as well I'm almost I mean even Massimo I well last time I

447
00:40:50,592 --> 00:40:56,772
spoke to Massimo on camera this is he he said yeah it's a business it's not I'm not it's not

448
00:40:56,772 --> 00:41:02,952
all some kind of like I'm not doing it purely out of the you know out of my the glove of my heart

449
00:41:02,952 --> 00:41:05,432
although there's a lot of love that goes into that place from him.

450
00:41:05,752 --> 00:41:05,972
Absolutely.

451
00:41:06,232 --> 00:41:08,592
And by the way, it is the least profitable thing he does.

452
00:41:08,672 --> 00:41:09,272
Of course it is.

453
00:41:09,272 --> 00:41:09,532
It is a business.

454
00:41:09,672 --> 00:41:10,032
Yeah, yeah.

455
00:41:10,192 --> 00:41:11,212
And it is making money.

456
00:41:11,312 --> 00:41:11,492
Yeah.

457
00:41:12,012 --> 00:41:15,772
But it's, you know, it lost money long enough that it has not broken even.

458
00:41:16,232 --> 00:41:19,272
And it's certainly not the most, by any stretch,

459
00:41:19,412 --> 00:41:22,312
it's the least profitable thing that he participates in.

460
00:41:22,952 --> 00:41:24,972
So, you know, I mean, to call...

461
00:41:24,972 --> 00:41:28,072
You wouldn't decide to do it, basically, from a business perspective.

462
00:41:28,612 --> 00:41:30,452
He's done it from an ideological perspective.

463
00:41:30,572 --> 00:41:31,552
I agree with that.

464
00:41:31,552 --> 00:41:33,152
but,

465
00:41:33,272 --> 00:41:33,552
but I,

466
00:41:33,572 --> 00:41:33,932
I don't know.

467
00:41:33,992 --> 00:41:49,210
I got a feeling that because because that that idea this meme about the kind of oligarchs popped up in a quite respectable and well and well place I suspect it going to rear its head a little bit more

468
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:55,730
I suspect it is too, but I mean, I really would turn it back on the user here is this, well,

469
00:41:55,850 --> 00:42:03,370
why don't you want these people to live the way they want to live? What is it about what you want

470
00:42:03,370 --> 00:42:06,150
It would stop them from living the way they want.

471
00:42:06,210 --> 00:42:10,810
Because it doesn't, the fact that a billionaire exists doesn't bother any one of the listeners.

472
00:42:11,390 --> 00:42:15,750
Nobody out there, well, it bothers them, but it doesn't affect their lives in any way.

473
00:42:15,890 --> 00:42:17,430
They might argue that it does, though.

474
00:42:17,490 --> 00:42:21,230
I think they might argue that billionaires are affecting them.

475
00:42:21,410 --> 00:42:27,230
For example, well, for example, say the Microsoft guy.

476
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:27,870
God.

477
00:42:28,450 --> 00:42:28,850
Bill Gates.

478
00:42:28,970 --> 00:42:29,970
Bill Gates, yes.

479
00:42:30,430 --> 00:42:32,290
Bill Gates is buying up farmland.

480
00:42:32,290 --> 00:42:32,870
We all know.

481
00:42:33,130 --> 00:42:33,210
Okay.

482
00:42:33,370 --> 00:42:48,010
Right. Finite resource that they couldn't buy. Right. Exactly. But but you could easily say, OK, if Bill Gates wasn't buying it, I know Bill Gates buying up farmland is a symptom of the system that we that we're in.

483
00:42:48,010 --> 00:42:54,410
It shouldn't it would be better if it wasn't happening, because it would I think it would be better if individuals owned farms.

484
00:42:54,410 --> 00:43:01,650
If only other people would do what I wish they would do. OK, this is what the petty tyrant says or the great tyrant.

485
00:43:01,650 --> 00:43:06,710
All tyrants say, if only other people would do what I want them to do.

486
00:43:07,030 --> 00:43:12,010
Now, that person who says it, by the way, couldn't run a farm to save their damn lives.

487
00:43:12,270 --> 00:43:16,530
If you gave them a farm, it would take them three years to be able to make it profitable.

488
00:43:16,990 --> 00:43:22,530
But instead, they say, why don't all the little farmers who were farmers be farmers?

489
00:43:22,990 --> 00:43:25,070
Well, because the work isn't that great.

490
00:43:25,550 --> 00:43:29,470
And you, Mr. or Mrs. Consumer, don't want to pay extra.

491
00:43:29,930 --> 00:43:32,150
You don't go out and buy the CSA.

492
00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:35,010
You don't go out and buy the organic stuff.

493
00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:40,850
You want the cheapest price for your Cheerios and your milk and whatever it is you get.

494
00:43:41,370 --> 00:43:43,810
And this is the result you get.

495
00:43:44,810 --> 00:43:52,870
If you want small local farmers, go to a small local farmer and start buying his products.

496
00:43:53,410 --> 00:43:55,850
Because that's the only solution to this.

497
00:43:55,850 --> 00:44:01,530
getting online and tick tick tick ticking away about how billionaires are doing this and

498
00:44:01,530 --> 00:44:06,990
oligarchs are doing that i mean it frustrates me because this is

499
00:44:06,990 --> 00:44:11,070
this is so close to a mental illness

500
00:44:11,070 --> 00:44:20,030
this has to be vanishingly we're not i think we're more mentally ill well i i say that the

501
00:44:20,030 --> 00:44:23,850
difference between libertarians and the rest of the people is the difference between wild animals

502
00:44:23,850 --> 00:44:24,830
and domesticated ones.

503
00:44:25,630 --> 00:44:27,070
I take it we're wild.

504
00:44:27,290 --> 00:44:28,070
We're the wild animals.

505
00:44:28,070 --> 00:44:28,350
Okay.

506
00:44:28,430 --> 00:44:29,850
You can call that good or call it bad.

507
00:44:29,950 --> 00:44:30,610
No, I don't mind that.

508
00:44:30,670 --> 00:44:31,290
I'll take that.

509
00:44:31,530 --> 00:44:36,110
But the wild animal lives by tooth and claw, right?

510
00:44:36,250 --> 00:44:38,530
He lives by the work that he puts in.

511
00:44:38,530 --> 00:44:40,270
The domesticated ones like,

512
00:44:40,510 --> 00:44:42,910
meow, fill my bowl, meow.

513
00:44:43,550 --> 00:44:45,890
I want my treat, you know?

514
00:44:46,690 --> 00:44:47,470
Must say though,

515
00:44:48,030 --> 00:44:50,470
what you've just said makes me think

516
00:44:50,470 --> 00:44:53,890
that the free state idea is right.

517
00:44:54,170 --> 00:44:55,270
I mean, what you're saying there is,

518
00:44:55,350 --> 00:44:58,810
look, if you want to live in a particular society,

519
00:44:58,970 --> 00:45:01,210
don't complain about billionaires doing X, Y, Z.

520
00:45:01,830 --> 00:45:03,730
Go to your farmer's market.

521
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:04,630
Go to your this.

522
00:45:04,730 --> 00:45:05,290
Go to your that.

523
00:45:05,690 --> 00:45:09,630
But I think there aren't enough people who care enough.

524
00:45:09,970 --> 00:45:13,430
So the way to solve that is to all amass together in one place.

525
00:45:13,570 --> 00:45:14,230
Yep, concentration.

526
00:45:14,570 --> 00:45:15,890
So it does work.

527
00:45:15,990 --> 00:45:18,990
Well, again, I don't say the free state project doesn't work.

528
00:45:18,990 --> 00:45:28,150
I just think it's the right thing to do with libertarians while the libertarians with money, the billionaires, right, go and build the thing.

529
00:45:28,490 --> 00:45:32,770
So Bitcoin made a lot of wealthy libertarians.

530
00:45:33,690 --> 00:45:42,710
And they're going to be able to create two, three, four, five sort of free places where we try freedom.

531
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:47,530
Now, it's not going to be – it's not free as in the end of freedom.

532
00:45:47,530 --> 00:45:50,230
It's free as in it's private, right?

533
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:56,430
So, for instance, in Morazon, there isn't a pot dispensary.

534
00:45:57,110 --> 00:45:58,710
There isn't a brothel.

535
00:45:59,570 --> 00:46:06,270
You know, these places exist in more statist places, but they don't exist in one of the freest places in the world.

536
00:46:06,410 --> 00:46:07,390
There isn't one in Prospera.

537
00:46:08,110 --> 00:46:14,270
But are you saying because it's not allowed or because it's their rules or because it's just not?

538
00:46:14,270 --> 00:46:15,190
It is not.

539
00:46:15,290 --> 00:46:16,410
It's not that it's not allowed.

540
00:46:16,410 --> 00:46:21,010
it is not allowed to be sort of prominent.

541
00:46:22,370 --> 00:46:24,010
If you went to Prospera and you said,

542
00:46:24,090 --> 00:46:26,090
hey, I'd like to open up a brothel,

543
00:46:26,530 --> 00:46:28,330
I suspect they would tell you,

544
00:46:28,490 --> 00:46:31,190
we appreciate where you're coming from, but no.

545
00:46:31,950 --> 00:46:35,990
Okay, so convince me that's a libertarian perspective then.

546
00:46:36,910 --> 00:46:38,930
Which is, the freedom or the private?

547
00:46:39,070 --> 00:46:42,390
No, they're saying we don't want a brothel here.

548
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:59,070
Okay. So libertarianism means two things, and they're not always the same thing. Libertarianism means you can do what you want on your property, right? So we're going to call Prospera – it's the property of Prospera Inc., right?

549
00:46:59,070 --> 00:47:05,770
They've got together investors and they come up with their rules and those rules don't include brothels and pot shops to my knowledge.

550
00:47:06,970 --> 00:47:11,430
And that's their property, not yours.

551
00:47:11,490 --> 00:47:13,330
So you're not free on my property.

552
00:47:13,470 --> 00:47:15,390
You're free on your property.

553
00:47:15,830 --> 00:47:18,570
But you're not because your property is owned by the state.

554
00:47:19,290 --> 00:47:24,350
That's a fundamental idea that you have to get a hold of is that you don't own your property, ladies and gentlemen.

555
00:47:24,730 --> 00:47:25,730
It's not yours.

556
00:47:25,730 --> 00:47:31,830
It belongs to the government that claims it in that area, and you are a tenant on their property.

557
00:47:32,070 --> 00:47:34,310
Allodial title. Do you know about that?

558
00:47:34,530 --> 00:47:35,990
Well, it's not even an allodial title.

559
00:47:36,190 --> 00:47:36,830
It's a –

560
00:47:36,830 --> 00:47:39,750
No, but an allodial title would be actually owning it.

561
00:47:39,810 --> 00:47:39,970
Yeah.

562
00:47:40,050 --> 00:47:40,830
But you don't.

563
00:47:40,830 --> 00:47:41,030
Right.

564
00:47:41,290 --> 00:47:48,370
There's also a fee simple title where you don't have to pay property tax on it necessarily, but they still make rules on what you can do and can't do with it.

565
00:47:48,510 --> 00:47:49,390
Zoning and stuff.

566
00:47:49,790 --> 00:47:50,050
Indeed.

567
00:47:50,050 --> 00:47:59,830
And so the other end of libertarianism is that an adult can do whatever they want so long as they don't harm someone else.

568
00:48:00,030 --> 00:48:02,690
And then the debate gets into what is an adult, right?

569
00:48:02,950 --> 00:48:06,870
And I don't know, and I'm not going to get into that debate with you.

570
00:48:07,830 --> 00:48:10,510
But, well, actually, I'm happy to get the debate.

571
00:48:10,510 --> 00:48:11,250
I think over 18.

572
00:48:11,730 --> 00:48:12,910
It's a fine number.

573
00:48:13,630 --> 00:48:15,210
I can live with it.

574
00:48:16,530 --> 00:48:18,910
Some people would argue that 16 is a better number.

575
00:48:18,910 --> 00:48:25,330
fine i don't care 16s and i've got a 17 year old i agree with you but i wasn't but at 18 i wasn't

576
00:48:25,330 --> 00:48:30,210
very mature either i in fact something happens at 18 though psychologically i think it does in

577
00:48:30,210 --> 00:48:35,810
england anyway in the great great britain at 18s a big age you have a party you you kind of something

578
00:48:35,810 --> 00:48:41,210
changes in you you do feel like sort of legitimized and you just get out of school as well which is

579
00:48:41,210 --> 00:48:47,930
obviously amazing couldn't you used to drink at 16 in pubs no okay uh you could drink at 14 as long

580
00:48:47,930 --> 00:48:52,850
you were with your family okay but obviously you know that's 14 years don't go drinking with the

581
00:48:52,850 --> 00:48:57,910
family i think that's true or is that france god knows um don't quote me on it but no it's 18 it

582
00:48:57,910 --> 00:49:04,090
always was 18 but everyone no one used to then there was no such thing as asking for id you went

583
00:49:04,090 --> 00:49:09,650
to the pubs that would serve you and and the pubs that served you decided that based on whether or

584
00:49:09,650 --> 00:49:14,370
not they thought they were going to get caught and you know but if the police ever came around

585
00:49:14,370 --> 00:49:16,170
Everyone was gone way before that.

586
00:49:16,250 --> 00:49:17,190
There was a good system.

587
00:49:17,550 --> 00:49:18,470
There was a good workaround.

588
00:49:18,770 --> 00:49:20,450
Because people wanted to drink when I was a kid.

589
00:49:20,770 --> 00:49:21,110
Indeed.

590
00:49:21,470 --> 00:49:22,710
I saw young ones.

591
00:49:23,770 --> 00:49:26,190
Yeah, we lived exactly like that.

592
00:49:26,530 --> 00:49:27,330
I was Neil.

593
00:49:30,170 --> 00:49:33,050
I don't remember what the guy with the spiky hair and the cricket bat was,

594
00:49:33,130 --> 00:49:34,430
but I really thought he was amusing.

595
00:49:34,550 --> 00:49:34,790
Vivian.

596
00:49:34,930 --> 00:49:35,870
Vivian, yes.

597
00:49:36,250 --> 00:49:37,770
Yeah, no, I was the hippie Neil.

598
00:49:37,850 --> 00:49:38,470
I had long hair.

599
00:49:38,470 --> 00:49:48,150
So really the difference is that when it comes to this sort of super free place, we have no clue whether this will work.

600
00:49:48,690 --> 00:49:54,890
But we do know that people should be able to choose how things go on their own property.

601
00:49:55,310 --> 00:50:04,808
And I think that that why free cities can claim to be free cities is because they make their own rules whatever those rules might be You can get into Prospera without their permission

602
00:50:05,188 --> 00:50:08,088
There's a gate and a guy with a gun standing at that gate.

603
00:50:08,848 --> 00:50:13,248
And you get in based on whether or not they want to let you in.

604
00:50:13,588 --> 00:50:16,208
You are making it sound like it's worse than it is.

605
00:50:16,408 --> 00:50:19,868
It's not like there's a guy standing there pointing a gun at you saying, who are you?

606
00:50:20,268 --> 00:50:20,968
I've been there.

607
00:50:20,968 --> 00:50:27,908
But there is a bloke in one of those who's sitting in a little off, and he can make the barrier go up and down.

608
00:50:28,188 --> 00:50:28,628
But that's…

609
00:50:28,628 --> 00:50:29,608
And he carries a…

610
00:50:29,608 --> 00:50:30,908
You made it sound like it was…

611
00:50:30,908 --> 00:50:31,568
45 ACP.

612
00:50:33,088 --> 00:50:34,588
I probably never used it.

613
00:50:34,748 --> 00:50:35,068
Probably never used it.

614
00:50:35,068 --> 00:50:36,008
No, I would think not.

615
00:50:36,248 --> 00:50:38,008
I don't imagine there's any firing.

616
00:50:38,188 --> 00:50:39,168
I don't have a problem.

617
00:50:39,468 --> 00:50:40,448
You know, I'm from New Hampshire.

618
00:50:40,608 --> 00:50:42,408
I have no problem with armed people.

619
00:50:42,508 --> 00:50:44,088
I believe armed people keep me free.

620
00:50:44,328 --> 00:50:46,148
More guns per capita than any state.

621
00:50:46,568 --> 00:50:47,228
Is that right?

622
00:50:47,508 --> 00:50:48,088
Oh, I don't know.

623
00:50:48,088 --> 00:50:50,308
No, someone told me when I was in New Hampshire.

624
00:50:50,768 --> 00:50:51,988
Average four per person.

625
00:50:52,288 --> 00:50:52,568
Wow.

626
00:50:52,888 --> 00:50:53,768
That's impressive.

627
00:50:54,248 --> 00:50:55,708
I thought you were going to say that's not very much.

628
00:50:56,068 --> 00:50:59,588
No, I think I just totally made that up.

629
00:50:59,588 --> 00:51:03,808
But I'm pretty sure it's one of the most armed states in the U.S.

630
00:51:03,988 --> 00:51:06,988
And it has the least gun crime as well.

631
00:51:07,348 --> 00:51:10,588
It's supposedly the place that proves the rule.

632
00:51:11,428 --> 00:51:15,628
I don't think that it proves the rule, but it is very interesting.

633
00:51:16,548 --> 00:51:19,868
And Vermont and Maine also, not nearly as free,

634
00:51:19,868 --> 00:51:22,188
but very little gun crime there too.

635
00:51:22,488 --> 00:51:29,068
It probably has more to do with a homogenous culture that hasn't wanted to leave

636
00:51:29,068 --> 00:51:32,388
because those places aren't the places that most people want to move to.

637
00:51:32,868 --> 00:51:34,808
They are the places that people are moving from.

638
00:51:35,688 --> 00:51:40,988
And therefore it leaves the old guard and the old guard takes care of itself.

639
00:51:42,548 --> 00:51:43,068
Okay.

640
00:51:43,268 --> 00:51:46,468
So I've forgotten what we were talking about.

641
00:51:46,988 --> 00:51:47,288
Oh, yeah.

642
00:51:47,408 --> 00:51:47,608
Yeah.

643
00:51:47,608 --> 00:51:47,968
Okay.

644
00:51:47,968 --> 00:51:54,708
So I'm glad you framed it like that because when I read that article, I was on the back foot.

645
00:51:55,208 --> 00:51:57,548
And you've basically come out and said, yeah, great idea.

646
00:51:58,288 --> 00:51:59,308
Like, why wouldn't you?

647
00:51:59,508 --> 00:52:00,188
And it's true.

648
00:52:00,348 --> 00:52:00,768
It's true.

649
00:52:02,348 --> 00:52:04,268
Any plan is a conspiracy, right?

650
00:52:04,628 --> 00:52:08,728
So if you make a plan to do a thing, it's a conspiracy if you work with someone else to do it.

651
00:52:08,728 --> 00:52:15,548
No, but the thing that struck me listening to you is that, yeah, why it makes total sense.

652
00:52:15,668 --> 00:52:23,588
And you should be unashamed about wanting to create a place according to the way you want to do it yourself.

653
00:52:23,868 --> 00:52:24,068
Right.

654
00:52:24,188 --> 00:52:25,728
It's not like you want to conquer the world.

655
00:52:26,228 --> 00:52:29,288
You just want to create a little area or even smaller.

656
00:52:29,288 --> 00:52:33,208
It could be even just your own property, you know, a few acres or something.

657
00:52:33,288 --> 00:52:35,228
Just a place where I can do whatever I want.

658
00:52:35,308 --> 00:52:36,828
It's none of your business what I'm doing here.

659
00:52:36,828 --> 00:52:40,748
and that that is it makes a lot of sense it's just that when billionaires do it

660
00:52:40,748 --> 00:52:46,268
they start people start talking about digital id in 15 minute cities and

661
00:52:46,268 --> 00:52:50,188
there's going to be like prosper prosper is a good example what a 15 minute city is i've heard

662
00:52:50,188 --> 00:52:55,548
the term but i haven't looked okay it's just it's a it's a centrally planned place where

663
00:52:55,548 --> 00:53:02,168
they're basically the conspiracy is that a city you will be kind of like geo-fenced

664
00:53:02,168 --> 00:53:04,108
So that means you can't go very far.

665
00:53:04,268 --> 00:53:13,288
It's all about controlling people's movement through money, but also through geofencing, which is just ways of stopping people from going far.

666
00:53:13,708 --> 00:53:17,008
And I think things like that are – that is true.

667
00:53:17,528 --> 00:53:18,648
There's a truth to that.

668
00:53:18,728 --> 00:53:27,508
And I think once we get CBDC currencies, programmable government money, that's going to be a massive step further in that direction.

669
00:53:27,748 --> 00:53:31,728
But, for example, when you look at Prospera, you know, people talk about Prospera.

670
00:53:31,728 --> 00:53:34,308
yeah, it's a kind of libertarian place.

671
00:53:34,928 --> 00:53:37,208
But yeah, you need to, if I want to go to Prospera,

672
00:53:37,288 --> 00:53:38,968
I got an ID card to get in there.

673
00:53:39,448 --> 00:53:40,548
They got to know who I am.

674
00:53:41,188 --> 00:53:46,348
That's the reality of a place that has a kind of fence around it.

675
00:53:46,588 --> 00:53:46,988
Right.

676
00:53:47,228 --> 00:53:48,088
It's libertarian.

677
00:53:48,248 --> 00:53:50,588
It's not lawless, you know, and there's.

678
00:53:50,668 --> 00:53:53,948
Yeah, but I think, you know, and I'll include myself in this.

679
00:53:54,288 --> 00:53:55,828
I think I'm confused by that.

680
00:53:56,348 --> 00:54:00,508
It's confusing me because libertarian seems free.

681
00:54:00,508 --> 00:54:08,628
it should be there's no rules in that but actually if you want to kind of create a private place

682
00:54:08,628 --> 00:54:16,408
you're literally by by definition creating rules and one of the place one of the things that you

683
00:54:16,408 --> 00:54:22,748
probably need to do is kind of identify everyone i think i mean i do what do you think about well

684
00:54:22,748 --> 00:54:27,808
let me let me tell you a story about the keen activist center now the keen activist center

685
00:54:27,808 --> 00:54:34,308
called the cack um do you know the cack's a slang word for shit in in the uk i wouldn't doubt it

686
00:54:34,308 --> 00:54:40,728
i've i've also heard it used as a slang word in the u.s for a penis um so anyway we just thought

687
00:54:40,728 --> 00:54:50,228
it was clever uh the keen activist center was this house where the activists would go and you know

688
00:54:50,228 --> 00:54:58,488
drink, a lot of drinking went on, karaoke and hangouts. And of course they made signs to protest

689
00:54:58,488 --> 00:55:05,668
and it was intended to be the hangout zone. And I mean, think of Antifa as always talked about,

690
00:55:05,728 --> 00:55:10,228
they've got a headquarters in town, right? Well, this is the opposite of that in the political

691
00:55:10,228 --> 00:55:17,168
firm, but exactly the same thing in the reality situation. And what happened is lots of people

692
00:55:17,168 --> 00:55:21,268
would come and they'd go and they'd hang out and this sort of thing. And then over time,

693
00:55:21,268 --> 00:55:28,148
it got to be fewer and fewer people. And, but those few, fewer people were there more.

694
00:55:29,408 --> 00:55:35,508
And the, we started sort of asking, well, it's not as fun as it was. What happened?

695
00:55:36,508 --> 00:55:39,988
And one of the things that happened, I couldn't tell you everything that happened, but one of the

696
00:55:39,988 --> 00:55:45,008
things that happened is, is that a couple of creepy guys kept bothering the girls.

697
00:55:45,008 --> 00:55:53,628
so when the girls don't come anymore then nobody comes anymore and so we're like well how do we

698
00:55:53,628 --> 00:55:58,088
solve this i say we i really didn't have anything to do with this because it just seemed gross to me

699
00:55:58,088 --> 00:56:04,788
like who's gonna vacuum the floor here this place is a mess you know like you know but forget that

700
00:56:04,788 --> 00:56:13,268
i did go over and have some wine and cheese one night um and what we decided to do was hold an

701
00:56:13,268 --> 00:56:13,948
Inquisition.

702
00:56:14,708 --> 00:56:17,248
Well, I mean, I couldn't describe it any other way.

703
00:56:17,328 --> 00:56:21,088
I got to see this as an onlooker, as a reporter in the situation.

704
00:56:21,088 --> 00:56:24,088
So it's like, well, you know, this guy's a creep.

705
00:56:24,948 --> 00:56:28,628
And like right there out in the open with him in front of you.

706
00:56:28,628 --> 00:56:32,028
And then the girls, you know, tell us about your experience.

707
00:56:32,168 --> 00:56:32,668
Oh, Jesus.

708
00:56:32,728 --> 00:56:34,908
And then, you know, so he's a creep, right?

709
00:56:36,148 --> 00:56:38,228
And I'm pretty sure that guy's a creep.

710
00:56:38,428 --> 00:56:38,688
Yeah.

711
00:56:38,688 --> 00:56:43,988
But what do you do when you, you know, when it comes to the, what do you do with the creep?

712
00:56:44,208 --> 00:56:45,728
Well, they decided to vote him out.

713
00:56:46,168 --> 00:56:47,208
Well, then what happened?

714
00:56:48,188 --> 00:56:56,288
Then people got in their head, huh, I can get rid of anybody I want so long as I can get enough members to vote with me.

715
00:56:56,408 --> 00:56:59,248
And it began to be the sort of inquisition.

716
00:56:59,408 --> 00:57:06,048
And then this was the end of the Keen Activist Center because they voted out the people and then it was done.

717
00:57:06,048 --> 00:57:11,948
But you've just described the arc of civilization right there.

718
00:57:12,308 --> 00:57:12,368
Indeed.

719
00:57:13,048 --> 00:57:13,648
Yes.

720
00:57:13,868 --> 00:57:16,208
And this is the thing that we have to get beyond.

721
00:57:16,868 --> 00:57:25,488
And that's why I say Massimo Mazzoni's morison works because you can't vote somebody off the island.

722
00:57:25,788 --> 00:57:32,088
But if somebody acts like a creep, Massimo's going to say, what, is he a creep?

723
00:57:32,348 --> 00:57:33,228
What is he doing?

724
00:57:33,468 --> 00:57:34,768
And he's going to go in.

725
00:57:34,768 --> 00:57:37,548
there's going to be a little investigation. Massimo's not going to do it. He's going to send

726
00:57:37,548 --> 00:57:41,288
people to do it, but there'll be a little investigation. If in fact, the guy's a creep,

727
00:57:41,688 --> 00:57:48,068
his lease won't be renewed and off he goes. And it's done by one central authority. Having a

728
00:57:48,068 --> 00:57:53,388
decision maker in many cases is a better thing. And remember, I'm going to repeat it again. It's

729
00:57:53,388 --> 00:58:01,788
really important. There is only one freedom, the freedom to leave. If you can leave, you're free

730
00:58:01,788 --> 00:58:06,528
And everybody leaves more as almost everybody leaves more as on every day.

731
00:58:06,528 --> 00:58:06,828
Right.

732
00:58:06,828 --> 00:58:12,228
And then they come back, they choose to come back and that's what makes it a free place.

733
00:58:12,228 --> 00:58:28,126
Now what is going on say in New Hampshire is much more a libertarian power grab right I Trying to take the you know and I think it a good idea The authoritarians created an authoritarian position

734
00:58:28,226 --> 00:58:34,226
a place with authoritarian rules with the intention of ruling over you.

735
00:58:34,326 --> 00:58:38,006
So the libertarians concentrate enough and they grab some of those reins of power

736
00:58:38,006 --> 00:58:39,986
and finally tell people, you know what?

737
00:58:40,186 --> 00:58:44,026
You're not going to tell me whether or not I can grow vegetables in my front yard.

738
00:58:44,506 --> 00:58:47,586
You're not going to tell me where I can park my car.

739
00:58:47,966 --> 00:58:52,126
You're not going to tell me these little rules that my roof has to be a particular color.

740
00:58:52,266 --> 00:58:53,146
I'm sick of this.

741
00:58:53,726 --> 00:59:00,386
And you're not going to tell me how much square footage I can build on a given lot or that sort of thing.

742
00:59:01,666 --> 00:59:06,846
And that is what I hope they're managed to do in New Hampshire.

743
00:59:06,846 --> 00:59:11,486
But again, they're only going to be as free as a state can be because they're under the federal government.

744
00:59:11,486 --> 00:59:26,706
Well, also, what has actually happened, which is fascinating to observe, is that within the influx of libertarians, the people that signed the pledge or whatever, they're now in small groups.

745
00:59:26,926 --> 00:59:27,166
Yes.

746
00:59:27,666 --> 00:59:28,826
They're cultural groups.

747
00:59:28,866 --> 00:59:29,046
Yep.

748
00:59:29,206 --> 00:59:31,566
And some of them are kind of hard hedge.

749
00:59:31,826 --> 00:59:31,966
Yep.

750
00:59:32,166 --> 00:59:34,426
No smoking, no drinking, no drugs.

751
00:59:34,826 --> 00:59:35,966
And then there are groups.

752
00:59:36,126 --> 00:59:36,946
Wife swappers.

753
00:59:36,946 --> 00:59:37,486
Yeah, yeah.

754
00:59:37,546 --> 00:59:40,286
And they don't mix by the sounds of it, which is really fascinating.

755
00:59:40,286 --> 00:59:42,806
So this is kind of like happening.

756
00:59:43,166 --> 00:59:46,966
In many cases, they can appreciate the other's position so long as they vote their way.

757
00:59:47,106 --> 00:59:49,186
But every once in a while, they have an inquisition.

758
00:59:49,326 --> 00:59:50,866
One of them must be nailed to a cross.

759
00:59:51,086 --> 00:59:51,266
Yes.

760
00:59:54,266 --> 01:00:01,246
But I mean, any group, people, once you get up to a certain size, those groups are going to begin to split.

761
01:00:02,246 --> 01:00:09,506
And I think libertarians, their size is smaller because they're individualists by their sort of nature and definition.

762
01:00:09,506 --> 01:00:19,886
and you know they can handle groups of eight 16 and it starts getting real shaky after that

763
01:00:19,886 --> 01:00:27,426
and you know my my wife will often reference one time when some people came out to do some work on

764
01:00:27,426 --> 01:00:36,006
our house while we were building it this had been 2007 and 2008 that this was being done and 2008

765
01:00:36,006 --> 01:00:43,586
this guy said well you know you can call me a libertarian but i consider myself more of an

766
01:00:43,586 --> 01:00:52,166
anarcho peacenik or something like that he came up with some term and she's just like man these

767
01:00:52,166 --> 01:00:59,406
people are boring you know like you know the the slicing of the pie and these tiny thin slivers in

768
01:00:59,406 --> 01:01:06,426
order to you know define yourself to her um you know to me it's just yeah you know i i hear this

769
01:01:06,426 --> 01:01:10,746
all the time people you know like i like the yellow and black flag because that more represents

770
01:01:10,746 --> 01:01:16,166
my feelings i like the yellow and white flag i'm a mutualist i'm a you know agorist fine whatever

771
01:01:16,166 --> 01:01:22,866
a tyranny of small differences it's a it's a funny not phenomenal concept funny enough i was just

772
01:01:22,866 --> 01:01:28,446
thinking about it when i was younger i remember coming to this conclusion when i was sort of in my

773
01:01:28,446 --> 01:01:36,006
sort of 20s i lived in a lot of shared houses you know back then you could rent large country houses

774
01:01:36,006 --> 01:01:40,926
and stuff quite cheaply and we used to live in a lot of them and i by the end of it i remember

775
01:01:40,926 --> 01:01:44,526
because i've still got friends that still live like that in communes pretty much

776
01:01:44,526 --> 01:01:53,566
um i remember realizing that the way that really worked was not to have everyone involved in the

777
01:01:53,566 --> 01:01:58,126
running of the place, but to have someone who owned the property who gave you the rules.

778
01:01:58,886 --> 01:01:59,666
And that was it.

779
01:01:59,966 --> 01:02:00,046
Yeah.

780
01:02:00,146 --> 01:02:02,006
That was what actually worked really well.

781
01:02:02,106 --> 01:02:03,346
Not in a nasty way or anything.

782
01:02:03,426 --> 01:02:04,766
It just functioned well.

783
01:02:05,086 --> 01:02:11,586
It's tough because, you know, on one hand, you don't always want to wash your dish immediately

784
01:02:11,586 --> 01:02:12,966
after using it.

785
01:02:13,326 --> 01:02:19,166
However, when you don't wash your dish immediately after using it, the next guy lets his sit

786
01:02:19,166 --> 01:02:20,006
for three days.

787
01:02:21,026 --> 01:02:23,046
And it just, and then they pile up.

788
01:02:23,046 --> 01:02:29,206
Everybody's got dishes. Whose dish is this? And that's just the dishes, you know, using the sink and it gets dirty.

789
01:02:29,346 --> 01:02:31,406
And, you know, like it's it's tough.

790
01:02:31,546 --> 01:02:39,986
And then I don't want to be the one who cleans the sink all the time because Fred comes in and he shaves his face in and he leaves beard stuff all over the place.

791
01:02:40,006 --> 01:02:42,046
And it just it's really difficult.

792
01:02:42,046 --> 01:02:57,306
There's an interesting social experiment that was done along those lines where somebody left a very expensive bicycle out in the open in one part of town, the dodgy part of town, it got stolen instantly.

793
01:02:57,786 --> 01:03:00,326
Or was it a car or something?

794
01:03:00,626 --> 01:03:02,926
It immediately got stolen in the dodgy part of town.

795
01:03:02,986 --> 01:03:05,526
In the posh part of town, it didn't get stolen.

796
01:03:05,526 --> 01:03:08,806
A couple of days later, someone smashed a window.

797
01:03:08,806 --> 01:03:13,686
and then almost within the space of a couple of days,

798
01:03:14,046 --> 01:03:17,106
everything started getting stolen and nicked and, you know,

799
01:03:17,406 --> 01:03:20,686
just it was that first thing that triggered it.

800
01:03:20,946 --> 01:03:24,166
And then everyone is looking at it, even in the posh part of town,

801
01:03:24,246 --> 01:03:26,726
they're like, oh, well, if he did it, I can do it.

802
01:03:27,046 --> 01:03:30,486
Whereas in the, you know, and I think that's what you're talking about there.

803
01:03:30,486 --> 01:03:33,446
You know, one person leaves their dishes out and then it just becomes,

804
01:03:33,506 --> 01:03:34,826
oh, that's what we're doing now then, is it?

805
01:03:34,906 --> 01:03:35,946
We're just leaving the dishes out.

806
01:03:36,346 --> 01:03:38,286
And then the whole thing falls apart and you have,

807
01:03:38,286 --> 01:03:46,186
inquisitions the dish gate and and you know yeah there's it's you know basically there's only a few

808
01:03:46,186 --> 01:03:50,826
systems that work and communes definitely aren't one that does um you know you can start a workers

809
01:03:50,826 --> 01:03:55,266
co-op if you want people always say kibbutzis work they are for sure i've never been at one

810
01:03:55,266 --> 01:04:01,106
i can't really say um what worked about kibbutzes and what didn't um i can say they work they were

811
01:04:01,106 --> 01:04:10,026
definitely armed and that might be the reason i don't know i presume they did work but i don't

812
01:04:10,026 --> 01:04:15,846
know much else um you're right it could be a myth i kind of leave kibbutzes and the whole

813
01:04:15,846 --> 01:04:23,026
israel argument off the table most of the time because it's this weird place where people are

814
01:04:23,026 --> 01:04:29,046
basically arguing about their favorite type of race and socialism like what socialism do they

815
01:04:29,046 --> 01:04:33,766
want to apply to which people and i don't want much to do with it frankly it's uh very difficult

816
01:04:33,766 --> 01:04:39,606
is our socialist right the social setup yeah yeah it's commune pretty much to some extent

817
01:04:39,606 --> 01:04:46,586
and if if you can make a commune finally work i support you i really do i mean i don't have

818
01:04:46,586 --> 01:04:51,806
this is the thing you know people say about capital capitalism will allow you to run any

819
01:04:51,806 --> 01:04:55,006
system you want to run if you want to call it capitalism i call it a free market

820
01:04:55,006 --> 01:05:00,366
free market says yeah run whatever system you want i don't think your system's going to work

821
01:05:00,366 --> 01:05:07,766
you will not find me as an investor for your commune but if you want to open a organic farm

822
01:05:07,766 --> 01:05:14,366
i'll be the first it's your place to order my vegetables on a regular basis this is a great

823
01:05:14,366 --> 01:05:18,706
system these csa's in the u.s or wherever they are whatever they're called wherever you are

824
01:05:18,706 --> 01:05:23,546
um this you know go to these local farms and support them because they give you an abundance

825
01:05:23,966 --> 01:05:24,686
Co-ops, you mean?

826
01:05:24,786 --> 01:05:25,026
Okay.

827
01:05:25,406 --> 01:05:25,926
I don't know.

828
01:05:25,946 --> 01:05:26,486
Is that what you mean?

829
01:05:26,546 --> 01:05:30,446
Like a bunch of farms get together and all sell their stuff via one place?

830
01:05:30,606 --> 01:05:31,586
Not for me.

831
01:05:31,826 --> 01:05:37,766
What I've generally done is found a farm, a big one, that's, you know, they're working all the time farming.

832
01:05:38,166 --> 01:05:41,546
And then they give you on a weekly basis whatever the –

833
01:05:41,546 --> 01:05:41,726
A box.

834
01:05:41,906 --> 01:05:43,306
Yeah, the box full of stuff.

835
01:05:43,426 --> 01:05:43,606
Yeah.

836
01:05:43,846 --> 01:05:49,566
And you've got to be a dedicated produce consumer to do that whole box.

837
01:05:49,566 --> 01:05:51,706
Otherwise, you're just gifting it to other people.

838
01:05:51,706 --> 01:05:56,646
We give it to the, we've got chickens, fortunately, but my wife started getting a box recently.

839
01:05:57,146 --> 01:05:57,326
Yes.

840
01:05:57,926 --> 01:06:00,646
And it's, yeah, the chickens are much happier.

841
01:06:02,306 --> 01:06:03,806
Fennel, what am I going to do with this?

842
01:06:04,126 --> 01:06:05,046
The chickens will love it.

843
01:06:05,306 --> 01:06:09,326
This week, chickpea, veal and scallops.

844
01:06:10,706 --> 01:06:12,246
Just chuck them in the pan.

845
01:06:14,086 --> 01:06:19,486
So what's your, so what is your, what is the way that it works then?

846
01:06:19,486 --> 01:06:23,406
Do you think the free private city model is the best one?

847
01:06:23,406 --> 01:06:39,586
Yeah, I do. And I don't even, well, the free private city, the way Titus Gable, however you want to pronounce it, the way he envisioned it was essentially a competition of anything that anybody wanted to do.

848
01:06:39,984 --> 01:06:47,224
you wanted to have a Muslim city, state, then by all means, run yourself a caliphate. If you want

849
01:06:47,224 --> 01:06:53,084
to, I don't know what exactly a caliphate is, so if I got my terms wrong, sorry. If you want to do

850
01:06:53,084 --> 01:06:57,904
one that's complete democracy, where everybody votes on everything, we're going to have mac and

851
01:06:57,904 --> 01:07:03,424
cheese. Everybody's eating mac and cheese tonight. Put it to a vote, all in favor, right? And we just

852
01:07:03,424 --> 01:07:08,404
do this. And with apps, you could do this now. You can truly vote on everything with these little

853
01:07:08,404 --> 01:07:13,644
So you could just have everybody lives in this democratic thing is a place.

854
01:07:14,184 --> 01:07:14,664
Right.

855
01:07:14,824 --> 01:07:22,044
If you like BDSM, you know, you can have a place where the men have to walk around on leashes and the ladies carry bull whips.

856
01:07:22,304 --> 01:07:24,964
Whatever it is you want, you could have it.

857
01:07:25,004 --> 01:07:27,484
He didn't mention that, but I thought of it.

858
01:07:28,964 --> 01:07:29,984
That's your city.

859
01:07:30,804 --> 01:07:32,084
That's where you're going.

860
01:07:35,604 --> 01:07:37,144
This is stuck in my mind.

861
01:07:37,144 --> 01:07:38,664
Yeah, right. I can't really go any further.

862
01:07:39,504 --> 01:07:41,244
Does everyone have to dress like that?

863
01:07:44,404 --> 01:07:49,244
I haven't put a lot of thought into it, but I mean, I think we could probably sell this to some.

864
01:07:49,244 --> 01:07:52,184
Mark, it sounds like you put a lot of thought into it, mate. I'm not being funny.

865
01:07:53,504 --> 01:07:56,084
Every night at about nine o'clock. Go on. Yeah.

866
01:07:56,544 --> 01:08:00,184
So, you know, all these things compete and then people want to live where they want to live.

867
01:08:00,684 --> 01:08:06,544
And I think this is the best system because currently you can see it all over the place.

868
01:08:06,544 --> 01:08:09,224
You go to Twitter, these people can't live together.

869
01:08:09,964 --> 01:08:11,364
They hate each other.

870
01:08:12,164 --> 01:08:15,184
And they all want to be involved in other people's lives.

871
01:08:15,304 --> 01:08:22,864
You've seen the world's smallest political quiz, the Nolan chart, the one that says freedom versus authoritarianism, left versus right.

872
01:08:23,244 --> 01:08:28,344
And you look at this and why shouldn't people collect in a particular area?

873
01:08:28,624 --> 01:08:31,024
And I'll tell you because the American dream is a nightmare.

874
01:08:31,684 --> 01:08:33,444
Homeownership is terrible.

875
01:08:33,444 --> 01:08:38,824
It's because it adds to the cost of moving from one location to the next.

876
01:08:38,904 --> 01:08:40,684
It's bad enough when it comes to leases.

877
01:08:41,364 --> 01:08:47,724
But when it comes to homeownership, it's probably $20,000 all told to sell your house and move to another place.

878
01:08:48,024 --> 01:08:50,784
That's why they say don't buy unless you're going to be in a place for 10 years.

879
01:08:51,064 --> 01:08:53,644
Who knows whether they're going to be in a place for 10 years?

880
01:08:53,644 --> 01:09:00,124
If you take my adult life, I lived for 10 years in one place.

881
01:09:00,124 --> 01:09:08,824
I'm 55 years old. You're counting from the time that I'm, you know, 20 to the time that I'm 55.

882
01:09:09,784 --> 01:09:16,784
And in that 35 years, I lived in one place for 10 years and I've probably lived in 10 places,

883
01:09:16,784 --> 01:09:22,624
maybe more, um, in that timeframe. And well, I mean, I guess if you're, I don't know,

884
01:09:22,664 --> 01:09:25,844
I don't want to go into the, how many it was, but I mean, I lived in a lot of places

885
01:09:25,844 --> 01:09:27,684
and I owned a lot of houses.

886
01:09:28,124 --> 01:09:29,864
I probably shouldn't have bought many of them.

887
01:09:29,944 --> 01:09:31,044
Some of them I made money on

888
01:09:31,044 --> 01:09:33,724
because I caught the real estate boom in the right angle.

889
01:09:33,804 --> 01:09:37,124
And I must say I've made money on real estate generally

890
01:09:37,124 --> 01:09:38,804
as opposed to not having made it.

891
01:09:39,864 --> 01:09:42,124
And if you're doing it for an investment, that's good.

892
01:09:42,224 --> 01:09:44,664
But remember, investment commercial real estate

893
01:09:44,664 --> 01:09:46,064
is probably the place to make money,

894
01:09:46,164 --> 01:09:48,144
which is to say renting it to someone else.

895
01:09:48,624 --> 01:09:49,964
That's probably the way to make money.

896
01:09:49,964 --> 01:09:51,804
I say live in a place you rent

897
01:09:51,804 --> 01:09:54,844
because currently if something breaks at my place,

898
01:09:54,844 --> 01:10:00,484
ring ring I call the maintenance guy oh the hot water heater's not working I don't have to get out

899
01:10:00,484 --> 01:10:07,844
my tool I got rid of my tools I sold them at a garage sale you know I had a room full of tools

900
01:10:07,844 --> 01:10:13,984
and just sold them at pennies on the dollar and I am so much freer because now when something breaks

901
01:10:13,984 --> 01:10:20,084
you can't call mark to fix it it I've got to call the maintenance guy I don't have a tool I got an

902
01:10:20,084 --> 01:10:26,064
adjustable wrench. I've got a hammer. I've got a power, you know, drill, the, you know, the

903
01:10:26,064 --> 01:10:31,904
electric screwdriver kind of thing. And that's about all I got. I can hang pictures on the wall

904
01:10:31,904 --> 01:10:37,924
for my mom, but you know, doing that, all that housework, you're just the slave to that piece

905
01:10:37,924 --> 01:10:42,344
of property and then you die. And then somebody else comes and they're the new slave to that piece

906
01:10:42,344 --> 01:10:48,644
of property. I think if you like your property though, like I would, I would say I'm necessarily

907
01:10:48,644 --> 01:10:56,104
a slave to my property but i get immense enjoyment out of it not in strange ways like i've got

908
01:10:56,104 --> 01:11:06,804
just recently really i've we had a one an old disused barn stone barn and i i was storing wood

909
01:11:06,804 --> 01:11:11,544
in it and over the last few weeks i've really got it into shape and turned it into a basically a

910
01:11:11,544 --> 01:11:18,484
wood processing factory for for the fire and now it's got a kettle and a little you know like

911
01:11:18,484 --> 01:11:24,484
bring a hob in there and a table and a chair and it's like yeah i like it down here this is your

912
01:11:24,484 --> 01:11:30,144
spot yeah it's it's the one place where it's a man cave basically yeah but not in the everyone

913
01:11:30,144 --> 01:11:35,204
does a man cave in a different way don't sure and but you do need a place like that because in the

914
01:11:35,204 --> 01:11:40,764
house this is it although it's art my property it's her say no it's everyone's you don't you

915
01:11:40,764 --> 01:11:45,164
can't go in a room and get any peace and quiet someone can just walk in at any moment sure but

916
01:11:45,164 --> 01:11:50,464
somehow when you create a space like that you kind of it's not that anyone even wants to go there as

917
01:11:50,464 --> 01:11:56,864
well you know because it's it's a room a room full of beautifully stacked wood and all the tools you

918
01:11:56,864 --> 01:12:03,584
could ever need to to sort of turn wood into heat and that gives me immense enjoyment but doesn't

919
01:12:03,584 --> 01:12:08,864
give my everyone else immense no they just enjoy the heat yeah but that's part of what the enjoyment

920
01:12:08,864 --> 01:12:14,704
is it's like you actually get to do something in there that keeps you fit keeps you healthy you can

921
01:12:14,704 --> 01:12:19,544
listen to podcasts while you're doing it and it's service to everyone else it's a beautiful thing you

922
01:12:19,544 --> 01:12:24,524
know like that's how families work this is how communes would work if they worked right but i

923
01:12:24,524 --> 01:12:30,964
yeah but i only do the wood there it's like i'm not i'm not about to i i like i love gardening but

924
01:12:30,964 --> 01:12:36,744
a certain type of gardening i don't like doing vegetables i like planting trees you know i hate

925
01:12:36,744 --> 01:12:41,644
weeding i just bores the crap out of me and so i wouldn't be good on a commune but in my own

926
01:12:41,644 --> 01:12:48,764
communistic society where I'm the dictator and I'll do the wood. I'll choose that for myself,

927
01:12:48,864 --> 01:12:52,904
you know, but I had something very similar, that piece of property that I told you about,

928
01:12:53,064 --> 01:12:59,744
um, that it was on for 10 years. We had pigs, we had a garden, we had, um, I, I heated with wood

929
01:12:59,744 --> 01:13:05,624
and, you know, we cleared pasture for the pigs and did all kinds of things over the course of

930
01:13:05,624 --> 01:13:11,224
that 10 years. And it was a wonderful place to raise my son. Um, you know, I mean, farm work is

931
01:13:11,224 --> 01:13:19,564
a great tool for the kids to, you know, to have them learn the value of where their food

932
01:13:19,564 --> 01:13:22,404
comes from and, you know, what it takes to produce these things.

933
01:13:22,404 --> 01:13:23,464
I think it's important.

934
01:13:24,524 --> 01:13:28,664
However, you know, my wife wasn't quite as house proud when it came to that thing.

935
01:13:28,704 --> 01:13:30,884
I'd said, I want to be buried here.

936
01:13:31,444 --> 01:13:37,024
You know, I cared so much about that piece of land, but, you know, she didn't like it

937
01:13:37,024 --> 01:13:37,284
as much.

938
01:13:37,304 --> 01:13:39,544
She's like, well, you know, why don't we get a lake house?

939
01:13:39,544 --> 01:13:44,144
you know now the bitcoin's gone up and we get a little bit of money why why wouldn't we enjoy it

940
01:13:44,144 --> 01:13:51,604
i'm like all right well you know if you want and i sold it to some friends and with a clause that i

941
01:13:51,604 --> 01:13:55,004
could buy it back if they you know and i decided that i didn't want to have it because it was a lot

942
01:13:55,004 --> 01:14:02,884
of work you know and laws that you could buy it back yeah do they even own it then they well i

943
01:14:02,884 --> 01:14:08,004
mean what was that what was their did they get it cheaply for that if they decided that they could

944
01:14:08,004 --> 01:14:12,104
that they would, um, were to sell as a right of first refusal.

945
01:14:12,384 --> 01:14:15,964
So if somebody says I'll buy this property for $200,000,

946
01:14:16,164 --> 01:14:18,424
then they must bring that offer to me.

947
01:14:19,564 --> 01:14:23,924
And then I can say, I'll take that $200,000. Um, and you know,

948
01:14:23,944 --> 01:14:27,724
I sold it to them, the concept of them as look, this is protection for you.

949
01:14:28,244 --> 01:14:32,064
If somebody comes and offers you a low ball price and you don't know that it's

950
01:14:32,064 --> 01:14:35,404
a low ball price, then I'll buy it at that low ball price.

951
01:14:35,404 --> 01:14:36,524
and then you'll know.

952
01:14:37,204 --> 01:14:37,604
Well,

953
01:14:37,604 --> 01:14:39,504
you might not offer to buy it at the low ball price.

954
01:14:39,564 --> 01:14:41,944
And then you'll know you shouldn't accept this low ball price.

955
01:14:42,904 --> 01:14:43,664
Like you said,

956
01:14:43,704 --> 01:14:43,824
though,

957
01:14:43,864 --> 01:14:44,784
you won't.

958
01:14:44,884 --> 01:14:45,684
I've gone through,

959
01:14:45,784 --> 01:14:48,784
I think I've gone through a similar process that I'm far less sentimental

960
01:14:48,784 --> 01:14:53,544
about property now because for the first time in my life,

961
01:14:53,544 --> 01:15:06,102
I realized it said liability And that that been a long journey I in my fifties too And I only just realized that I always thought the opposite Yeah well that where we raised

962
01:15:06,802 --> 01:15:08,482
you know, we Americans,

963
01:15:08,822 --> 01:15:09,862
which were, you know,

964
01:15:09,962 --> 01:15:11,522
propagated by you, the English,

965
01:15:11,862 --> 01:15:13,922
I think that this is the Shire, right?

966
01:15:13,962 --> 01:15:15,182
That's the whole concept

967
01:15:15,182 --> 01:15:16,822
that Tolkien was going with

968
01:15:16,822 --> 01:15:17,922
with his books,

969
01:15:18,002 --> 01:15:19,302
just talking about these peaceful

970
01:15:19,302 --> 01:15:21,702
countrysides and things like that

971
01:15:21,702 --> 01:15:22,442
and it's, you know,

972
01:15:22,502 --> 01:15:24,042
who doesn't want that idea

973
01:15:24,042 --> 01:15:49,722
And that it's just inculcated everything. But, you know, I mean, think about all the retirees that are moving to Florida or Arizona or wherever they're going. They've given up on the idea, too. They're like, this is this is work. You know, I spent 20 years, 30 years in this house raising one, two, three, four kids and I'm done.

974
01:15:50,342 --> 01:15:57,182
The kid can have it and, you know, if they want to buy it or I'll sell it and, you know, do what I want with the money or whatever it is that they want to do, it's theirs.

975
01:15:57,742 --> 01:15:59,162
And I think they should do that.

976
01:15:59,722 --> 01:16:00,922
But I, you know.

977
01:16:00,922 --> 01:16:11,242
But I always, that my sentimental brain would always fantasize about another generation appearing in that house and stuff.

978
01:16:11,862 --> 01:16:12,942
And that's changed.

979
01:16:13,142 --> 01:16:16,162
And I wouldn't say I'm happy about that thought.

980
01:16:16,162 --> 01:16:22,362
I've all you know like one of the things that I you know five years ago I was so

981
01:16:22,362 --> 01:16:29,002
adamant about was that generational living was a really good idea and actually I should try and

982
01:16:29,002 --> 01:16:33,982
start it now because it's not going to happen with my mother and father you know we we broke

983
01:16:33,982 --> 01:16:40,482
that tie but with with my kids I could offer them and that's why we bought what we bought

984
01:16:40,482 --> 01:16:47,342
is because it has the option for uh it's a farm so the option for the kids to live on in the same

985
01:16:47,342 --> 01:16:55,542
place is definitely definitely there but now since all this kind of you know political stuff's been

986
01:16:55,542 --> 01:17:01,682
happening since covid i'm like you know i just want to be free and and i'll rent a i'll rent my

987
01:17:01,682 --> 01:17:06,462
dream house for six months i don't care i won't even care what's on the walls i don't put anything

988
01:17:06,462 --> 01:17:12,482
out. I have no sentimental connection. But part of me thinks that's probably quite a sad thing to

989
01:17:12,482 --> 01:17:18,322
have happened. Well, unfortunately, we're just not going to get that free place. You know, I mean,

990
01:17:18,402 --> 01:17:23,782
the way that what happens with democracies, what happens with republics is that they get more,

991
01:17:23,882 --> 01:17:28,902
they grow by their nature and no one can stop them. I haven't seen them be able to stop them yet.

992
01:17:28,902 --> 01:17:34,942
and therefore you need, again, the only freedom is the ability to leave.

993
01:17:36,122 --> 01:17:41,482
So, and another thing that I believe the same way you did when my son was young,

994
01:17:41,922 --> 01:17:48,502
wouldn't it be great? I can turn over Free Talk Live, this successful podcast to this young man.

995
01:17:48,582 --> 01:17:52,282
He can do this. You know, do you want to do this? He's like, yeah, I want to do that.

996
01:17:52,282 --> 01:18:10,282
And, you know, it seemed like a great idea, but he doesn't have the passion today for libertarianism that I did when I started at 30. And obviously he has much more passion for video games and those kind of, he started a YouTube channel and it was very successful.

997
01:18:10,282 --> 01:18:15,942
successful. And, um, you know, he wanted to do something different and he doesn't necessarily

998
01:18:15,942 --> 01:18:25,722
want to live where I wanted to live. And it's the same. So my mom offered her China in a big giant

999
01:18:25,722 --> 01:18:31,962
break front, uh, China cabinet thing to my wife. My wife said, no, thank you.

1000
01:18:32,282 --> 01:18:36,222
It's a common story. There's been a number of things like that.

1001
01:18:36,222 --> 01:18:39,062
And that's what's going to happen with the house in all likelihood.

1002
01:18:40,342 --> 01:18:44,462
You know, why would my son Jack want to live in rural New Hampshire?

1003
01:18:44,862 --> 01:18:46,822
Yeah, but I lament the loss of that.

1004
01:18:47,142 --> 01:18:47,962
I really do.

1005
01:18:48,042 --> 01:18:54,202
I think that, and I hope that there's a future where things like that happen more.

1006
01:18:54,202 --> 01:18:56,362
I mean, don't happen that way.

1007
01:18:56,362 --> 01:19:08,282
I mean, because I think what's disappearing with that idea that we're both espousing now is the sense of community that is forged over like 40 or 50 years.

1008
01:19:08,742 --> 01:19:24,102
Because where I like, for example, just when I was coming here from home, I was driving to the airport and to drive out of our farm, you go up a hill, down a lane and then pass the local church, which is an old sort of like, you know, God knows that 1600 church or whatever.

1009
01:19:24,102 --> 01:19:29,842
but there was cars everywhere everywhere and there was a field next to the church that was

1010
01:19:29,842 --> 01:19:37,282
full of cars parked and the reason is is because someone locals just died and when i look at that

1011
01:19:37,282 --> 01:19:41,722
i think yeah where i live that you know we're newcomers we've only been there a couple of years

1012
01:19:41,722 --> 01:19:46,342
really in that particular area but there's people that have lived there their whole lives and and

1013
01:19:46,342 --> 01:19:52,822
you can't this that's important those kind of things are important those 50 year friendships

1014
01:19:52,822 --> 01:19:57,082
and relationships and the people in the community who everyone knows

1015
01:19:57,082 --> 01:19:59,502
and who hundreds of people go to their funeral.

1016
01:20:00,362 --> 01:20:05,482
If I died, I wouldn't get hardly anyone from where we live.

1017
01:20:06,242 --> 01:20:08,042
It would be quite a small funeral probably.

1018
01:20:08,042 --> 01:20:09,442
If there was a Zoom meeting on the funeral,

1019
01:20:09,602 --> 01:20:10,642
you might get a bunch of people to come.

1020
01:20:10,802 --> 01:20:14,142
But I mean, nobody's going to come back to Her-Hepfurtshire

1021
01:20:14,142 --> 01:20:16,442
or wherever it is you live.

1022
01:20:16,442 --> 01:20:26,422
but but but but i think that's sad for me in in a sense that but not that i even feel like i could

1023
01:20:26,422 --> 01:20:31,582
live like that i'm not sure i could stay in that place otherwise why am i here in prague talking to

1024
01:20:31,582 --> 01:20:37,722
all these people with crazy ideas it's not me and my kids are kind of the same they're probably going

1025
01:20:37,722 --> 01:20:45,082
to live much more of a mobile existence providing you know mobility is is easy well you know and

1026
01:20:45,082 --> 01:20:51,522
And when we, you know, when this idea was conceptualized, there were how many careers?

1027
01:20:52,022 --> 01:20:53,422
You know, everybody was a farmer.

1028
01:20:54,142 --> 01:20:58,242
And then in the off season, they would, one of them would make candles.

1029
01:20:58,382 --> 01:21:02,362
Another one would be a blacksmith and, you know, make the hooks that you hang on the wall.

1030
01:21:02,362 --> 01:21:06,362
And, you know, got to have the axe heads and all these sorts of things.

1031
01:21:06,442 --> 01:21:07,522
Another one was a farrier.

1032
01:21:07,842 --> 01:21:09,562
Another one was this, that, or the other.

1033
01:21:09,762 --> 01:21:09,902
Right.

1034
01:21:09,902 --> 01:21:17,082
And they began to specialize because people needed farriers all year round.

1035
01:21:17,262 --> 01:21:19,082
And so the guy's like, well, maybe I won't run a farm.

1036
01:21:19,162 --> 01:21:20,142
I'll just do ferrying work.

1037
01:21:20,322 --> 01:21:22,242
And it began to get more and more specialized.

1038
01:21:22,462 --> 01:21:38,902
And now there's not just a computer programmer, but there's specific types of computer programming so specific that you don't know that the guy that does the crypto safety analysis doesn't have any clue what the guy who builds.

1039
01:21:38,902 --> 01:21:41,662
builds word processing software does.

1040
01:21:42,162 --> 01:21:47,082
And it's just so specialized that I don't think we can live like that anymore.

1041
01:21:47,602 --> 01:21:48,822
I mean, it's a loss.

1042
01:21:49,302 --> 01:21:50,082
There's no doubt.

1043
01:21:50,842 --> 01:21:55,142
But I just don't think it's a modern way to live.

1044
01:21:55,422 --> 01:21:56,082
I just don't think it is.

1045
01:21:56,082 --> 01:21:58,662
So what are we creating in free cities then?

1046
01:21:59,242 --> 01:22:01,682
You know, like we're trying to create communities, right?

1047
01:22:01,922 --> 01:22:02,022
Sure.

1048
01:22:02,582 --> 01:22:03,122
Well, maybe.

1049
01:22:03,602 --> 01:22:06,882
Communities need certain – well, in the traditional sense,

1050
01:22:06,882 --> 01:22:13,642
communities sense communities need that longevity i think i don't think transient communities i mean

1051
01:22:13,642 --> 01:22:21,362
all right it's a way of living but um i don't think they last i don't by their nature i think

1052
01:22:21,362 --> 01:22:27,502
the whole if you look at if you look at if you created a free city for example you would expect

1053
01:22:27,502 --> 01:22:33,362
well it depends what kind of place i mean i think actually like mass mode's got it right

1054
01:22:33,362 --> 01:22:39,642
free cities are for local people you know people that create free cities for the kind of mobile

1055
01:22:39,642 --> 01:22:45,862
westerner yeah uh it's a good it's a great idea but really there's not that many people that do

1056
01:22:45,862 --> 01:22:49,922
that really what you want is just local people moving for a better standard of living that's

1057
01:22:49,922 --> 01:22:57,482
kind of that's kind of what it is but um but i i yeah i i hope that there's a i i don't know

1058
01:22:57,482 --> 01:23:02,642
i don't know how we go back from this it's like once if you've traveled and you've zipped around

1059
01:23:02,642 --> 01:23:06,302
the world and you've done this and you've done that very hard to go back the

1060
01:23:06,302 --> 01:23:11,582
curious spend 40 years in the same place yeah how could you do it I don't I mean

1061
01:23:11,582 --> 01:23:25,000
you know you got a handful of friends you see the handful of friends you find a mate you want to be with my friends are all around like have more friends at this conference than I do where I live by far you know

1062
01:23:25,020 --> 01:23:27,300
and that's reality.

1063
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:27,760
Sure.

1064
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:29,980
And there's not a lot of people that even,

1065
01:23:30,220 --> 01:23:32,420
most people don't really even know what I do.

1066
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:32,920
Well,

1067
01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:37,080
what I found when I lived like that was that I wouldn't call the people who

1068
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:38,840
lived around me necessarily friends.

1069
01:23:38,940 --> 01:23:43,400
I would have called them neighbors and I could always call on them to do this

1070
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:43,860
thing or that.

1071
01:23:43,860 --> 01:23:45,280
And they could do the same with me.

1072
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:51,680
And we were, you know, I, what I did was make myself available to these people to get done

1073
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:52,880
what they wanted to get done.

1074
01:23:53,460 --> 01:23:56,440
And, um, in the same way they would do the same for me.

1075
01:23:56,480 --> 01:24:02,400
And they really were, I mean, salt of the earth in this particular area, but you're

1076
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:02,620
right.

1077
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:05,460
All those people were those other kinds.

1078
01:24:05,480 --> 01:24:07,880
They're just like, Oh, here's somebody who's going to be a long-termer.

1079
01:24:08,260 --> 01:24:10,540
I'll help them to be a long-termer.

1080
01:24:10,540 --> 01:24:14,880
had they known if I was only going to stay there 10 years, had I known I was only going to stay

1081
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:19,000
there 10 years, they probably would have treated me differently. But they said, you know, here's

1082
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:23,380
somebody who's carving an existence out of the woods, and I will help them to do that.

1083
01:24:23,380 --> 01:24:32,220
But that's a common idea amongst incomers. Certainly amongst the people that live in

1084
01:24:32,220 --> 01:24:36,500
places like that, they're always suspicious of incumbents, because they don't think they're

1085
01:24:36,500 --> 01:24:42,800
going to stay very long and inevitably they often don't either because you're the desire to be an

1086
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:48,000
incomer yeah it does it stays with you you want to be an incomer somewhere else after that yeah

1087
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:54,000
whereas if you lived in the same place for 40 years and yeah it's great i mean when i go to local

1088
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:59,860
um village events where we are i feel amazing i just think this is incredible this is absolutely

1089
01:24:59,860 --> 01:25:06,480
amazing but you know i volunteered at the school for example to you know to to do things for the

1090
01:25:06,480 --> 01:25:12,040
school but i can't be a governor at the school because i'm not around enough you need to be there

1091
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:19,540
all the time so i just do the odd thing so i can't embed myself in the same way at all it's a weird

1092
01:25:19,540 --> 01:25:27,000
it's a weird um paradox actually because i really do idolize that kind of way of life but actually

1093
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:34,120
i'm not really embodying it myself i'm trying and i do you know like but i'm not at the moment am i

1094
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:40,100
I'm like here and next and then we've been going to go to Central America and then we're going to go here.

1095
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:41,680
And then you're like even worse.

1096
01:25:41,740 --> 01:25:42,900
You're all over the place, you know.

1097
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:43,840
Well, now I am.

1098
01:25:43,940 --> 01:25:51,140
But I mean, at the time when I was living there like that, I mean, I, you know, I'd go away to a convention and obviously I couldn't make it if they made a fire call.

1099
01:25:51,240 --> 01:25:51,440
Right.

1100
01:25:51,660 --> 01:25:56,020
I'm not going to be there to, you know, pull a cow out of a ditch or whatever it is we had to do.

1101
01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:01,440
And, you know, if they, for instance, I'd have to work, of course.

1102
01:26:01,440 --> 01:26:04,720
You know, lots of people didn't make calls when I had to work.

1103
01:26:05,220 --> 01:26:08,180
So, you know, they, yeah.

1104
01:26:08,340 --> 01:26:10,880
I mean, there's always somebody who's doing a little more.

1105
01:26:11,220 --> 01:26:14,780
And those people do kind of make a community work in many ways.

1106
01:26:14,900 --> 01:26:15,240
It's no doubt.

1107
01:26:15,620 --> 01:26:28,360
So are we saying then that the best model for a place is a privately run, centrally governed place?

1108
01:26:29,380 --> 01:26:29,900
Yes.

1109
01:26:29,900 --> 01:26:35,980
but but limited by size presumably or not i don't know that it has to be limited by size because what

1110
01:26:35,980 --> 01:26:41,660
isn't that well what happens when you get one the size of the uk right i think that at this point

1111
01:26:41,660 --> 01:26:47,840
that is not uh possible um you know there's just not enough you know there nobody has enough wealth

1112
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:54,840
to be able to run a uk sized free private city but but it is the contract's important the contract

1113
01:26:54,840 --> 01:27:00,300
aspect of it important. So you need to have a contract that tells you what you can and can't

1114
01:27:00,300 --> 01:27:06,500
do before you come in and then you sign it and there's the rules. Well, with Massimo, for instance,

1115
01:27:07,300 --> 01:27:12,900
his system doesn't like, so there's an important distinction to make. There are,

1116
01:27:13,300 --> 01:27:18,260
the free private city is just an idea. It can, it's a very blank slate. You can do whatever you

1117
01:27:18,260 --> 01:27:22,580
want. So Titus Gable came up with this idea. He said that, you know, you can do what you want.

1118
01:27:22,580 --> 01:27:25,740
So they can have property ownership within the free private city.

1119
01:27:26,580 --> 01:27:37,840
Massimo Mazzoni is more of an ascriber to Spencer McCallus, Spencer Heath, and this sort of Georgist idea where everybody rents, what he calls entrepreneurial communities.

1120
01:27:38,940 --> 01:27:40,680
And everybody rents.

1121
01:27:41,300 --> 01:27:43,660
And the rent's low where he is.

1122
01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:45,300
It's $150 a month.

1123
01:27:45,380 --> 01:27:46,540
I mean you can't really argue with that.

1124
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:50,440
But more importantly as well, it's lower than it is in the neighboring places.

1125
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:51,280
Correct.

1126
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:55,500
It's not lower, it's a higher standard of living and about the same rent.

1127
01:27:55,660 --> 01:27:58,580
And people come in and they just scoop them up.

1128
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:01,620
Whenever there's a new unit available, it is gone.

1129
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:10,840
And what he says is that it's easier, rather than trying to guess everything that any kook might do to mess things up within his community,

1130
01:28:10,980 --> 01:28:13,360
he just says, we only do short-term leases.

1131
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:16,180
And when I want to get rid of them, I get rid of them.

1132
01:28:16,180 --> 01:28:24,180
And if for whatever they do, you know, maybe maybe somebody, you know, wears a T-shirt every day that says I hate Hondurans.

1133
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:30,000
Right. And, you know, you should be our American, our Western ideas.

1134
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:34,720
We say you should be free to do that. But they probably aren't going to like that in that community.

1135
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:39,740
And then at some point, you know, there's going to be a conversation that's had that say, hey, you got to stop wearing the T-shirt.

1136
01:28:39,860 --> 01:28:40,340
You're going to go.

1137
01:28:40,340 --> 01:28:47,100
The argument is then if you don't like the rules, either leave or become a billionaire and make your own one.

1138
01:28:47,180 --> 01:28:48,160
Is that it?

1139
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:50,660
Ultimately, I get it.

1140
01:28:50,740 --> 01:28:51,960
Most people can't be billionaires.

1141
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:52,760
I can't.

1142
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:53,840
Well, you don't have to be a billionaire.

1143
01:28:54,220 --> 01:28:55,760
Maybe a 400 millionaire or whatever.

1144
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:58,640
No, you can put together something.

1145
01:28:59,460 --> 01:29:04,020
I mean, like, you know, you can buy property with 100 acres or 50 acres.

1146
01:29:04,260 --> 01:29:04,420
Sure.

1147
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:09,000
And for all intents and purposes, you can live like that.

1148
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:13,420
Well, I can't negotiate with the government, though, to get a free city now.

1149
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:14,020
Yes.

1150
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:18,480
But no one's going to come and knock on your door necessarily if you live in the middle of nowhere.

1151
01:29:19,060 --> 01:29:20,300
And it's a good start.

1152
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:26,620
I'll tell you what, there's a lot of people who live in the middle of nowhere where the government comes knocking on the door and says this thing or that thing.

1153
01:29:26,940 --> 01:29:29,780
Hey, you can't build with your log cabin.

1154
01:29:29,900 --> 01:29:31,780
You've got to use this or that.

1155
01:29:31,900 --> 01:29:35,400
And they just, I mean, more and more in America, you just can't do what you want to do.

1156
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:41,260
Maybe that's why the – well, then that's why – it is why people don't like the idea.

1157
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:46,480
The people that don't like the idea don't like the idea because they can't do it themselves.

1158
01:29:46,780 --> 01:29:50,180
They have to be someone who follows the rules, and maybe they don't want to follow the rules.

1159
01:29:50,700 --> 01:29:58,260
Or maybe they just don't want to – they just don't want somebody else doing a thing that they don't want them to do.

1160
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:00,320
There's some bad ideas in building out there.

1161
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:06,000
By the way, the real crux when it comes to tyranny is building.

1162
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:10,940
If you want to build on your property, you will find the tyranny of wherever it is you live.

1163
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:14,080
Because that's, I mean, you know, that's where it is.

1164
01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:17,680
I'm sorry, your shed's a, you know, it's a half meter too big.

1165
01:30:18,020 --> 01:30:24,880
Yeah, but the point is as well that the state is already, you know, the state is a billionaire basically running.

1166
01:30:25,340 --> 01:30:25,880
I mean, it's not.

1167
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:27,180
It's completely illiquid.

1168
01:30:27,380 --> 01:30:28,840
It's completely out of business.

1169
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:38,480
But for all intents and purposes, it's a billionaire running a place with a social contract, which is terrible compared to a real contract.

1170
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:39,660
But I don't know.

1171
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:45,860
I have sympathy for the people that look at the private city.

1172
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:47,900
Like Destiny would be a good example, right?

1173
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:50,280
Which is Olivia's project.

1174
01:30:50,300 --> 01:30:51,280
Olivia Jensen's project.

1175
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:52,000
Destiny.

1176
01:30:52,300 --> 01:30:52,340
Yeah.

1177
01:30:52,580 --> 01:30:56,700
In Nevis, St. Kitts, right?

1178
01:30:56,700 --> 01:31:04,400
when you i can i can look at that and i can be i can empathize with people that look at that and

1179
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:10,180
go oh my god a billionaire is going to create this thing and it's going to be um it's not going

1180
01:31:10,180 --> 01:31:14,680
to be good the work you know it's not going to be good for the small person really and blah you know

1181
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:19,840
and you know quite viscerally i can go yeah i kind of see where you're talking from but then

1182
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:23,900
when i think about it it's like that's total nonsense it's like i can't even understand it

1183
01:31:23,900 --> 01:31:31,020
I mean really I truly can't to me when a billionaire is not meddling in your own local government right because that billionaire

1184
01:31:31,260 --> 01:31:45,958
Olivia Jensen it good come to where you live and her fifth for sure and say well now we going to It herefordshire It the Shire It just like the Shire You literally don live in a place called Herefordshire

1185
01:31:46,138 --> 01:31:46,498
Really?

1186
01:31:46,678 --> 01:31:46,878
Yeah.

1187
01:31:47,038 --> 01:31:48,738
I didn't know where you lived, and I'm sorry.

1188
01:31:48,738 --> 01:31:49,738
I didn't want to come close to...

1189
01:31:50,398 --> 01:31:52,718
I was just making up some silly English word.

1190
01:31:52,918 --> 01:31:55,238
No, I live in a place called Herefordshire.

1191
01:31:55,778 --> 01:31:57,418
We have Hereford cattle.

1192
01:31:57,558 --> 01:31:58,778
They're a very famous cattle.

1193
01:31:58,878 --> 01:31:59,198
They are.

1194
01:31:59,278 --> 01:31:59,798
Big horns.

1195
01:31:59,918 --> 01:32:00,218
They are.

1196
01:32:00,318 --> 01:32:00,918
Good meat.

1197
01:32:01,098 --> 01:32:01,358
Yeah.

1198
01:32:01,358 --> 01:32:06,318
I truly was just trying to make up some just made up English town.

1199
01:32:06,538 --> 01:32:08,358
But it does look like the Hobbit where we live.

1200
01:32:08,458 --> 01:32:09,538
It's all small farms.

1201
01:32:09,538 --> 01:32:10,118
Except for round doors.

1202
01:32:10,238 --> 01:32:11,098
500 year old.

1203
01:32:11,158 --> 01:32:12,818
No, there's people even with round doors.

1204
01:32:12,998 --> 01:32:14,818
Like they've done it for fun.

1205
01:32:15,258 --> 01:32:23,118
But it's all very old farms spaced apart and mountains and stuff.

1206
01:32:24,478 --> 01:32:26,778
So you can't even understand that.

1207
01:32:26,898 --> 01:32:27,358
No, I can't.

1208
01:32:27,358 --> 01:32:30,298
But say, use this as an example then.

1209
01:32:30,298 --> 01:32:40,878
say that Olivia did come to Herefordshire and buy up a massive bit of land and I'm right next to it.

1210
01:32:41,158 --> 01:32:43,578
Well, Bill Gates isn't buying up governments.

1211
01:32:43,858 --> 01:32:48,598
Bill Gates is just using his money to make sure the politicians he wants to get in, get in.

1212
01:32:48,938 --> 01:32:51,678
And he then incentivizes them with dollars.

1213
01:32:51,678 --> 01:32:54,898
If we're to be believed, I don't know what Bill Gates is doing.

1214
01:32:55,378 --> 01:32:58,678
But, you know, Olivia doesn't have to come buy a single plot of land.

1215
01:32:58,678 --> 01:33:05,678
He can just say, you know, I'd like to mess with this system and money and that system truly do make a difference.

1216
01:33:05,758 --> 01:33:11,958
Whereas if he wants to go build a place where he and a bunch of billionaire friends go hang out, well, they're already doing that.

1217
01:33:12,358 --> 01:33:15,598
Monaco exists and it doesn't bother my existence.

1218
01:33:17,898 --> 01:33:19,678
I think it's just meddling ultimately.

1219
01:33:20,858 --> 01:33:25,858
And the people that say that the poor will be driven out don't understand how rich people are.

1220
01:33:25,858 --> 01:33:28,798
Rich people need somebody to clean the house.

1221
01:33:29,798 --> 01:33:32,678
Yeah, but even that sounds really derogatory, doesn't it?

1222
01:33:32,718 --> 01:33:32,958
Why?

1223
01:33:33,618 --> 01:33:34,358
Yeah, why?

1224
01:33:34,378 --> 01:33:35,958
You don't think it's noble to clean houses?

1225
01:33:37,018 --> 01:33:46,378
No, because of the way that you can frame it that way, or you can frame it, this person is just paying a pittance for someone to clean up their mess.

1226
01:33:46,538 --> 01:33:47,798
It's the same thing.

1227
01:33:47,798 --> 01:33:49,418
They're paying the market rate.

1228
01:33:49,478 --> 01:33:49,718
Right.

1229
01:33:49,718 --> 01:33:52,118
I live in Sarasota, Florida currently.

1230
01:33:52,338 --> 01:33:55,798
That's where mom lives, and I spend a reasonable amount of time there.

1231
01:33:55,858 --> 01:34:04,898
If you try to pay somebody minimum wage in Florida, which I think is $7.50 an hour, to clean your house, you will find zero, exactly zero.

1232
01:34:05,058 --> 01:34:12,298
Not a number near zero, a number that is exactly zero of people that will be willing to do that because they won't do it.

1233
01:34:12,458 --> 01:34:20,198
You cannot exploit somebody who cleans houses because they will either choose to do the job for the amount of money or they will not.

1234
01:34:20,198 --> 01:34:27,418
So maybe they say they'll come in and do it for $15 an hour and then they get to take a look at my place and how I live and they're like no way

1235
01:34:27,418 --> 01:34:31,178
I need $25 an hour to do this or whatever it is. I have no clue

1236
01:34:31,178 --> 01:34:35,858
You know, I don't take care of this particular job mom does have somebody who comes in. I don't know what she gets paid

1237
01:34:35,858 --> 01:34:38,638
but

1238
01:34:38,638 --> 01:34:42,058
You know nonetheless and by the way that lady tells me

1239
01:34:42,058 --> 01:34:48,358
This needs to be cleaned up or that like she literally has a little chore list for me to do when I come in because she's you know

1240
01:34:48,358 --> 01:34:53,778
she's clean for mom for 20 years and she has no problem telling me what to do. She remembers me

1241
01:34:53,778 --> 01:35:04,758
when I was quite young. So no problem. Yeah. I applaud your resoluteness. I suppose I probably

1242
01:35:04,758 --> 01:35:11,678
care more than you about what people think about my actions then because you're like,

1243
01:35:12,018 --> 01:35:17,818
like I say, I'm definitely going to talk to Massimo about this same thing because I've

1244
01:35:17,818 --> 01:35:22,058
reached out to the guy that wrote the article and he's not responding i said come on talk to me i

1245
01:35:22,058 --> 01:35:27,778
you know i'm really like i'm not going to set you up i actually just want to know what's going on

1246
01:35:27,778 --> 01:35:32,698
here and and then i'm actually going to talk to a billionaire who's who runs one of these places

1247
01:35:32,698 --> 01:35:37,298
and and say what do you think about this because massimo's pretty candid about the way he's yes he

1248
01:35:37,298 --> 01:35:43,838
is he's about as candid as it gets and but but really you your your attitude is probably correct

1249
01:35:43,838 --> 01:35:46,078
but it's almost like it's correct on paper.

1250
01:35:46,078 --> 01:35:49,238
But in real life, it's harder to actually exhibit.

1251
01:35:49,598 --> 01:35:51,338
There are people who do not like me

1252
01:35:51,338 --> 01:35:52,518
and they don't like me

1253
01:35:52,518 --> 01:35:54,358
because I've had conversations like this

1254
01:35:54,358 --> 01:35:57,018
within my community on how it is

1255
01:35:57,018 --> 01:35:59,498
that they shouldn't be able to have control

1256
01:35:59,498 --> 01:36:00,778
over their neighbor's property.

1257
01:36:01,098 --> 01:36:02,138
For instance, there was a guy

1258
01:36:02,138 --> 01:36:03,578
who was across the street from me,

1259
01:36:04,118 --> 01:36:06,058
across the highway from me,

1260
01:36:06,438 --> 01:36:08,038
and my neighbors wanted to put up

1261
01:36:08,038 --> 01:36:09,638
a cell phone tower on their property.

1262
01:36:09,718 --> 01:36:10,618
They had plenty of property.

1263
01:36:10,978 --> 01:36:12,278
They wanted to put a cell phone tower up there

1264
01:36:12,278 --> 01:36:13,638
and they were going to make a lot of money on it.

1265
01:36:13,838 --> 01:36:18,118
That guy didn't want to get up in the morning and see a cell phone tower in his view.

1266
01:36:19,018 --> 01:36:31,898
And so he, a man that had been, you know, drank beer at their place week after week after week on thirsty Thursdays and drank their beer for as long as you could possibly remember, says, nope.

1267
01:36:32,758 --> 01:36:38,258
And he goes to the town meeting and they, you know, he stands against it and they never got their cell tower.

1268
01:36:38,258 --> 01:36:44,278
And I'm like, you know, and I'm going and I'm telling, you know, these people that this is just awful, you know, and whatever.

1269
01:36:45,238 --> 01:36:58,058
And that one I can understand, though, because I think there's a negative externality to a cell tower, not least in the sense that, see, where I am, that would be an impolite thing to do.

1270
01:36:58,158 --> 01:37:00,638
If it was close to another house, it would be impolite, right?

1271
01:37:00,918 --> 01:37:02,258
You use cell phones where you live, right?

1272
01:37:02,258 --> 01:37:15,418
Right, we do. But, you know, there's a kind of polite place to cite that. But also there's the fact that I think a lot of people genuinely think that being too close to those towers is actually bad for their health.

1273
01:37:15,418 --> 01:37:16,718
Oh, I believe they think that too.

1274
01:37:16,758 --> 01:37:25,578
So that would definitely be an externality that would bother me. But more to the point, it would be, you know, it would be impolite.

1275
01:37:25,578 --> 01:37:31,438
If you want to put a cell tower on your land, just put it miles away from everyone. It is an imposition.

1276
01:37:31,438 --> 01:37:54,378
Here was the reason. And it's partially the opinion. So a better place to have put it was the property next door. That property was tens of thousands of acres. It was gigantic. And it had the top of the hill where you would want the cell tower. But the problem was is that only the abutters to the property get an opinion.

1277
01:37:54,378 --> 01:37:55,078
What does that mean?

1278
01:37:55,338 --> 01:37:58,318
Somebody who has a piece of property that abuts directly against.

1279
01:37:59,458 --> 01:38:02,458
In this case, it was the, we'll call it the Smith's property, right?

1280
01:38:02,538 --> 01:38:04,618
The Smith's had three abutters.

1281
01:38:05,558 --> 01:38:06,718
And I was an abutter.

1282
01:38:07,318 --> 01:38:10,658
And then these other two abutters.

1283
01:38:10,758 --> 01:38:11,418
One didn't care.

1284
01:38:11,658 --> 01:38:16,178
And the other guy across the street manages to get the other abutter to care.

1285
01:38:17,338 --> 01:38:18,098
The other abutter.

1286
01:38:18,298 --> 01:38:19,018
The other abutter.

1287
01:38:19,998 --> 01:38:21,778
And this is how it was done.

1288
01:38:21,778 --> 01:38:30,818
You would have never been able to build it in the right place because that property, tens of thousands of acres, probably has 300 abutters, maybe even more.

1289
01:38:31,298 --> 01:38:34,678
And each one of them would get an opinion as to what happens.

1290
01:38:34,998 --> 01:38:39,198
So you couldn't put the cell tower at the top of the hill, way far away from people.

1291
01:38:39,298 --> 01:38:40,558
You had to do it this way.

1292
01:38:40,618 --> 01:38:41,338
And that's why this happened.

1293
01:38:41,638 --> 01:38:48,678
See, this is the thing is just trying to give everybody an opinion on other people's property causes this extra problem.

1294
01:38:48,678 --> 01:39:01,658
But I do understand it because there is, it's not, I would say I'm not an absolutist in the sense that if I bought this apartment, this is mine right now.

1295
01:39:01,938 --> 01:39:04,418
Okay, so I can do whatever I want here.

1296
01:39:04,778 --> 01:39:07,498
You know, there is a limit to what I can do.

1297
01:39:08,038 --> 01:39:10,698
And I think, you know, have you got somewhere to go, by the way?

1298
01:39:10,818 --> 01:39:12,378
Yeah, I have to go to the TPList meeting.

1299
01:39:12,458 --> 01:39:15,518
I just want to make sure that I'm not later something I don't know precisely.

1300
01:39:15,878 --> 01:39:17,338
But I have another few minutes.

1301
01:39:17,338 --> 01:39:19,878
How long have you got? Because I'm just looking here.

1302
01:39:19,938 --> 01:39:20,458
Call it 15.

1303
01:39:20,678 --> 01:39:27,618
Okay. I've got someone coming, I think, at 4.30, the next interview.

1304
01:39:29,098 --> 01:39:32,998
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think there's no, it's a bit gray area.

1305
01:39:33,078 --> 01:39:40,018
There's no black and white way, I think, of deciding what is unfair between two properties.

1306
01:39:40,018 --> 01:39:58,818
Well, I think that, I think this. So everybody who, if you give the neighbors the ability to decide what goes on your property and what doesn't, then, and this is the stuff that doesn't affect them. Now, you're claiming the cell phone towers might negatively affect people's health. And that may be true.

1307
01:39:59,058 --> 01:39:59,538
I don't know.

1308
01:39:59,976 --> 01:40:11,016
To prove that, like in the same way that if I'm pumping depleted uranium into the soil, I can test soil on my property and say, look, it's coming down the creek or whatever.

1309
01:40:11,016 --> 01:40:16,676
The underground water is pushing it in, and I've got depleted uranium in my property, and this is bad.

1310
01:40:16,756 --> 01:40:18,576
I don't like it, and I'm going to sue.

1311
01:40:18,876 --> 01:40:21,056
And that would be a tort, and then you would owe me.

1312
01:40:22,696 --> 01:40:23,936
Plus, we'd have to clean it up.

1313
01:40:23,936 --> 01:40:30,076
And that would be the same thing with the cell towers, is my brain's being fried and I don't want to wear a tinfoil hat all the time.

1314
01:40:30,216 --> 01:40:36,896
It would probably more be to do with how much it affects the value of the property and just the general sense of being.

1315
01:40:36,916 --> 01:40:37,136
Yes, it does that too.

1316
01:40:37,496 --> 01:40:44,316
Because I think I know a number of occurrences of this happening with wind turbines.

1317
01:40:45,336 --> 01:40:52,796
And so people decide to have a wind turbine on their land, a big one, and the neighbors don't want it because they say it affects the price of their property.

1318
01:40:52,796 --> 01:40:54,816
Right, well, yeah, and that.

1319
01:40:56,036 --> 01:40:59,256
But here's my anecdote, right?

1320
01:40:59,436 --> 01:41:02,796
I would never buy a property near a wind farm.

1321
01:41:03,676 --> 01:41:07,696
So obviously the market in some shape or form is going to reflect that.

1322
01:41:07,976 --> 01:41:10,236
So it would mean the price was slightly higher.

1323
01:41:10,616 --> 01:41:15,396
But more to the point, I would say, they used to say, well, look, we have a –

1324
01:41:15,396 --> 01:41:19,316
and as far as the sound goes, well, there's an amount of decibels

1325
01:41:19,316 --> 01:41:21,996
that you're allowed to create in sound.

1326
01:41:22,196 --> 01:41:24,596
And below that, we've deemed that okay.

1327
01:41:24,996 --> 01:41:25,716
And it's true.

1328
01:41:25,816 --> 01:41:27,416
The number of decibels is quite quiet.

1329
01:41:27,816 --> 01:41:31,056
But, you know, a dripping tap is quiet.

1330
01:41:31,156 --> 01:41:31,756
Oh, I hear you.

1331
01:41:31,816 --> 01:41:32,056
Right?

1332
01:41:32,416 --> 01:41:35,036
But when you hear that dip, when you hear that drip,

1333
01:41:35,096 --> 01:41:36,816
that can drive you literally insane.

1334
01:41:36,816 --> 01:41:38,876
And they don't account for things like that.

1335
01:41:38,956 --> 01:41:41,836
So I think it, you know, it's really gray area.

1336
01:41:42,016 --> 01:41:44,356
It's like, what does affect people?

1337
01:41:44,676 --> 01:41:45,836
Sound strikes your ear.

1338
01:41:46,596 --> 01:41:47,656
It is aggression.

1339
01:41:48,476 --> 01:41:48,776
Okay?

1340
01:41:48,776 --> 01:41:58,516
And so within a libertarian paradigm, sound is something that one would take into account in trying to figure things out.

1341
01:41:58,616 --> 01:42:04,556
Not because you should be able to determine what goes on in your neighbor's property, but you determine what goes on in your property.

1342
01:42:05,056 --> 01:42:06,836
And the sound travels across the border.

1343
01:42:07,876 --> 01:42:10,076
So I get where you're coming from.

1344
01:42:10,556 --> 01:42:17,416
I also would say if you don't want a cell phone tower on my property, you need to give up your cell phone.

1345
01:42:17,416 --> 01:42:24,216
right because cell phones don't work without towers and there are definitely towns in new

1346
01:42:24,216 --> 01:42:30,336
hampshire that barely have cell phone coverage because every nimby uh you know busy body

1347
01:42:30,336 --> 01:42:37,396
stops putting up uh cell towers everywhere i don't like it the aesthetics can you make it look like a

1348
01:42:37,396 --> 01:42:44,716
tree or a church steeple yeah i don't mind that it's a bit yeah i don't think you even need to do

1349
01:42:44,716 --> 01:42:50,156
that i think there's a right and a wrong it's like you know if if someone was creating a lot

1350
01:42:50,156 --> 01:42:54,416
of noise from their property and you were annoyed by it that doesn't mean you've got to stop going

1351
01:42:54,416 --> 01:43:00,056
to discotheques you know what i mean like no i think that you know when it comes to noise i think

1352
01:43:00,056 --> 01:43:04,736
that there's so there's the people that move in right next to a racetrack and they're like you

1353
01:43:04,736 --> 01:43:10,436
know on friday night it's really loud here that's ridiculous they're assholes yeah right now there's

1354
01:43:10,436 --> 01:43:13,276
the people that will move next to a farm and be like,

1355
01:43:13,276 --> 01:43:30,622
the horse poop stinks what did you think was gonna happen On the other hand if I move in and I like to play music at 11 you know at the middle of the night and you know my neighbors are like this wasn happening before this person moved in

1356
01:43:30,862 --> 01:43:34,162
I think there's something to the sort of continuity of a place.

1357
01:43:34,642 --> 01:43:37,122
And that's probably doable.

1358
01:43:37,122 --> 01:43:42,642
But the good part of local government, which is what we're talking about here, right?

1359
01:43:42,702 --> 01:43:45,782
The local government can do good things.

1360
01:43:46,282 --> 01:43:48,482
It's about 5% of what they do.

1361
01:43:49,002 --> 01:43:50,982
And the 95% is bad.

1362
01:43:51,882 --> 01:43:58,562
You know, like they're involved in everything and they're always wanting to, you know, do this thing or that thing.

1363
01:43:58,682 --> 01:44:03,542
And I feel like I'd rather deal with my neighbor.

1364
01:44:03,542 --> 01:44:06,082
and I've had neighbors come and say,

1365
01:44:06,182 --> 01:44:10,142
hey, do you mind if I put up a little satellite dish on my property?

1366
01:44:10,682 --> 01:44:13,422
I'm like, thanks for coming and checking with me,

1367
01:44:13,502 --> 01:44:16,682
but I think it's shocking that you would have to.

1368
01:44:17,082 --> 01:44:20,362
Yes, put up a little foot and a half wide cell tower on the top

1369
01:44:20,362 --> 01:44:22,762
or a satellite dish on the top of your house.

1370
01:44:22,882 --> 01:44:23,302
Please do.

1371
01:44:23,802 --> 01:44:25,342
Enjoy cable TV.

1372
01:44:25,742 --> 01:44:27,642
I did that with my neighbor, actually.

1373
01:44:27,642 --> 01:44:31,922
I wanted to build a property to the side of our property.

1374
01:44:31,922 --> 01:44:41,422
And before I ever applied for any planning permission from the council, I went down to my neighbors, who's the only person that would affect, said, look, I'm thinking of doing this.

1375
01:44:42,242 --> 01:44:46,382
You've got a problem with that because I just didn't want to create a bad vibe between me and my neighbor.

1376
01:44:46,522 --> 01:44:47,282
It's as simple as that.

1377
01:44:47,322 --> 01:44:56,182
And I would have stopped myself or I would have adapted it because I believe in neighborliness and things like that.

1378
01:44:56,182 --> 01:44:57,602
I'm glad you have a reasonable neighbor.

1379
01:44:58,382 --> 01:44:58,642
Yeah.

1380
01:44:58,722 --> 01:45:00,142
Well, I mean, they didn't mind at all.

1381
01:45:00,142 --> 01:45:12,622
My neighbor, who was a selectman, minded the idea that I might add a master bedroom on the top of my property, not increase the footprint of the property, but add a master bedroom on the second floor.

1382
01:45:13,342 --> 01:45:20,122
And so much so that he used his power as a selectman to prevent me from building, even though I got permission from the state.

1383
01:45:20,422 --> 01:45:23,442
Was he going to cast a shadow on his property?

1384
01:45:23,442 --> 01:45:29,422
He was looking to sell and he figured a construction site would probably diminish the value of his property.

1385
01:45:29,422 --> 01:45:35,542
time right so he just stopped me from building for 18 months and I got so demoralized in the

1386
01:45:35,542 --> 01:45:40,942
amount of money that I because he didn't say this he just said hey you know if you wait um you know

1387
01:45:40,942 --> 01:45:46,742
this x amount of time um you know or whatever then I'll let you do it but you know he didn't do that

1388
01:45:46,742 --> 01:45:54,342
that's not how authoritarian little uh tyrants work I live amongst the fair people of Hereford

1389
01:45:54,342 --> 01:46:00,722
shire uh there there's an asshole in herefordshire too there are but country folk tend to be quite

1390
01:46:00,722 --> 01:46:06,102
chilled around this was a country guy uh this the states is because you're all armed look

1391
01:46:06,102 --> 01:46:13,002
i'm i'm cognizant that i think someone's coming in 10 minutes my next my next one so let's wrap

1392
01:46:13,002 --> 01:46:18,562
it up absolutely i gotta say it's a real pleasure tim i really love doing interviews with you because

1393
01:46:18,562 --> 01:46:22,302
because I think you're just a consummate broadcaster.

1394
01:46:22,542 --> 01:46:24,542
A consummate broadcaster.

1395
01:46:24,642 --> 01:46:25,282
Yeah, that's great.

1396
01:46:25,522 --> 01:46:26,542
All right, you can give me that, Monica.

1397
01:46:26,642 --> 01:46:27,502
I'm happy with that.

1398
01:46:28,382 --> 01:46:29,942
Why don't we wrap up with this?

1399
01:46:30,062 --> 01:46:31,222
You're not doing,

1400
01:46:31,362 --> 01:46:42,068
it not like you doing a talk at this conference but you are heavily involved in lots of aspects of it and you run the auction and stuff But I do see that on Sunday

1401
01:46:42,208 --> 01:46:46,348
you're doing a kind of one of those little meeting type things.

1402
01:46:46,648 --> 01:46:47,748
And the title of it was

1403
01:46:47,748 --> 01:46:49,728
Why Support the Free Cities Movement?

1404
01:46:51,268 --> 01:46:52,568
Yeah, I think that's on Saturday.

1405
01:46:52,868 --> 01:46:53,348
Is it Saturday?

1406
01:46:53,548 --> 01:46:53,688
Yeah.

1407
01:46:53,908 --> 01:46:54,288
Oh, it's not.

1408
01:46:54,348 --> 01:46:55,268
Is it on the main stage then?

1409
01:46:55,348 --> 01:46:55,968
It's on the main stage.

1410
01:46:56,008 --> 01:46:56,348
Oh, sorry.

1411
01:46:56,428 --> 01:46:57,648
I thought it was one of those Sunday things

1412
01:46:57,648 --> 01:46:58,568
where everyone gets together

1413
01:46:58,568 --> 01:47:00,288
and has a bit more of a town hall type thing.

1414
01:47:00,308 --> 01:47:00,448
No.

1415
01:47:00,968 --> 01:47:01,368
Oh, okay.

1416
01:47:01,368 --> 01:47:02,288
It's a proper speech.

1417
01:47:02,428 --> 01:47:05,488
So why should we support the Free Cities movement?

1418
01:47:05,828 --> 01:47:05,988
Right.

1419
01:47:06,348 --> 01:47:09,348
So the first thing I'll start with is I've got to create value.

1420
01:47:09,628 --> 01:47:14,168
I think the Free Cities Foundation is the most important liberty organization in the world.

1421
01:47:14,788 --> 01:47:20,348
We've got a lot of organizations out there that will help you define what liberty means.

1422
01:47:20,888 --> 01:47:24,428
They will tell you why it's a good idea.

1423
01:47:24,608 --> 01:47:25,748
They'll make an argument for you.

1424
01:47:25,788 --> 01:47:31,268
They'll get academic papers written as to why this would work and why it's a good idea and all those sorts of things.

1425
01:47:31,368 --> 01:47:33,048
Those things exist, and I think they're wonderful.

1426
01:47:33,508 --> 01:47:36,008
That foundation, I believe, is largely built.

1427
01:47:36,228 --> 01:47:42,888
If you want to find out why it's a good idea to be free in this area or that area, that article is already written.

1428
01:47:44,688 --> 01:47:46,828
The question is, is how do we do it?

1429
01:47:46,828 --> 01:48:06,368
And I've argued at this entire interview that free cities, specifically entrepreneurial communities like Massimo's creating, I believe are the single best, most functional, most facile way to create liberty that we've come up with.

1430
01:48:06,648 --> 01:48:09,328
And I'm a convert to this.

1431
01:48:09,388 --> 01:48:13,348
I was just a libertarian to start with, and I just saw something that worked.

1432
01:48:13,348 --> 01:48:21,788
and in order to get more of that you're going to have to support the free cities foundation

1433
01:48:21,788 --> 01:48:26,808
because they're the ones that are collecting this information there really isn't an organization

1434
01:48:26,808 --> 01:48:35,888
that's doing what they're doing and thus if we want this little tiny movement within libertarianism

1435
01:48:35,888 --> 01:48:42,988
to grow and get the notoriety that it deserves we've got to support this organization so i'm

1436
01:48:42,988 --> 01:48:50,828
going to start a monthly contribution to the Free Cities Foundation. And I'm asking everybody who's

1437
01:48:50,828 --> 01:48:55,488
listening to me to look into the Free Cities Foundation and consider what it is you can give

1438
01:48:55,488 --> 01:49:01,028
without, you know, harming yourself, right? Like I'm just, I'm just saying, you know, if you're

1439
01:49:01,028 --> 01:49:07,148
just buying us a cup of coffee, you know, $5, $10, whatever it is that you're wanting to do,

1440
01:49:07,308 --> 01:49:10,928
you know, my case, it's going to be a bit more than that because I really believe, but, you know,

1441
01:49:10,928 --> 01:49:17,348
take a look into what we're doing and consider what would the world be like if these ideas got

1442
01:49:17,348 --> 01:49:22,848
out and because they're really not and even within libertarianism these eyes are ideas aren't out

1443
01:49:22,848 --> 01:49:32,728
and we need we need them spread it's okay that's nice i like it i i need one of those for the

1444
01:49:32,728 --> 01:49:39,388
podcast as well though that's the annoying thing do a little i'll do i'll do a little donation page

1445
01:49:39,388 --> 01:49:46,388
at the end. But that, I mean, you know, I don't think it's as small as you make out actually.

1446
01:49:46,388 --> 01:50:14,214
Maybe it just me being saturated with conversations about this stuff all the time But I know many more people who for example know what Prospera is now than they never did before Yeah Five years ago it was a much smaller idea Yeah And I think that connected with the kind of crypto sphere and the Bitcoin world and the sort of longevity world because they basically using places like Prospera to operate out of

1447
01:50:14,774 --> 01:50:16,074
They can't do what they do medically.

1448
01:50:16,254 --> 01:50:19,814
Yeah, exactly. And I think that it's not as small as you think.

1449
01:50:19,814 --> 01:50:35,814
And, you know, it's I don't know how I don't I really don't know how small it is, obviously, but I have a sense that it's actually growing in popularity because I think what's crumbling is the idea.

1450
01:50:35,814 --> 01:50:43,074
idea i think that more and more people are starting to think that that idea that the state

1451
01:50:43,074 --> 01:50:50,134
exists is being challenged in very small ways for the very first time i've noticed because it

1452
01:50:50,134 --> 01:50:56,074
happened to me and now it's now i'm full-blown like i've just done absolute retrograde with it

1453
01:50:56,074 --> 01:51:03,694
you know i'm just like it's all terrible but it's all crap but um you know the the i can see it

1454
01:51:03,694 --> 01:51:10,194
being discussed and being thought about like and that's a big that's that's the final boss i think

1455
01:51:10,194 --> 01:51:15,754
isn't it that's the big boss that everyone needs to address in order for them to say well what's

1456
01:51:15,754 --> 01:51:22,794
the alternative then well maybe this competing places that actually are fair and opt-in and that

1457
01:51:22,794 --> 01:51:28,354
allow you to choose and then we also get to see a free market of places arising and actually oh look

1458
01:51:28,354 --> 01:51:33,994
we see which ones do well maybe that's a signal to us about what would be a good idea to do it not

1459
01:51:33,994 --> 01:51:40,914
this mass-enforced rule-based system where you don't even sign a deal with them you just they

1460
01:51:40,914 --> 01:51:46,034
just say no you're my bitch you do what i say because you happen to pop up in herefordshire

1461
01:51:46,034 --> 01:51:53,254
in a little hobbit house in 1976 or something you know right well even worse if you pop up in

1462
01:51:53,254 --> 01:52:01,874
Yerevan, Armenia, try leaving there. If you pop up in North Korea, good luck in being free there.

1463
01:52:02,594 --> 01:52:09,074
And this is what these Marxists out there want. They want you to stay in one place and be ruled

1464
01:52:09,074 --> 01:52:16,254
by those people, to be exploited by the state. It's terrible if you get exploited by the capitalist,

1465
01:52:16,934 --> 01:52:22,054
but it is your role. It is your purpose of being to be exploited by the state.

1466
01:52:23,254 --> 01:52:29,114
It is. It is. Right. Mark, many thanks. You've got a shareholder meeting to go to, I believe.

1467
01:52:29,794 --> 01:52:30,414
Thank you so much.

1468
01:52:30,734 --> 01:52:32,254
You billionaire capitalist, you.

1469
01:52:33,054 --> 01:52:33,814
Not I.

1470
01:52:34,314 --> 01:52:42,114
When you're sitting around that table with all the other billionaires, you can ask them, are we planning something dastardly? Is this a conspiracy?

1471
01:52:42,774 --> 01:52:44,174
Well, I'm sure you're allowed to attend.

1472
01:52:44,834 --> 01:52:49,934
Yeah, I've got to work. I'm going to the plebs meeting, I think. Anyway.

1473
01:52:50,094 --> 01:52:50,634
This evening, right?

1474
01:52:50,634 --> 01:52:55,654
Yes. Lovely to see you again, mate. And good luck with your talk and everything. And I'll see you around.

1475
01:52:56,034 --> 01:52:56,694
Thank you so much.